========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:12:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gcycho1 Subject: Near South available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The spring 2003 issue of Near South is now available, including work from Devin Johnston, David Baratier, Chris Stroffolino, Julia Bloch, David Zauhar, Ian Randall Wilson, Lisa Lubasch, Dale Smith, Cris Mazza, John Breedlove, David Mulroy, Chuck Stebelton, Kimberly Lojek, Stephen Mainard, Dale Barrigar, Noah Eli Gordon, and Christopher Chambers, plus a collaborative venture from Ray L'Hooq and Wayne Twitchell. Copies can be ordered from Garin Cycholl (3617 W. Belle Plaine; Chicago, IL 60618) for $5 (checks made out to "Garin Cycholl"). We are also accepting submissions of poetry, flash/minute fiction, one-act drama, ancient translation, or other experiments for our fall and spring issues. For the spring 2004 issue, we are particularly inviting poetry or minute fictions that work within or around the Miles Davis ensemble's recording of "Blue in Green." Please send to the address above. Work or questions can also be submitted electronically to: nearsouthmag@hotmail.com . Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:24:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: 2 skilling courant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 2 skilling courant Female ejaculation? ejaculation? Yes! Yes! Spectacular, Spectacular, horny horny teens teens with with dripping dripping wet wet Female pussies, until jerking they themselves explode until with they hot explode wet hot gushing! girl jerking gushing! themselves gushing public orgasms, urination, public hidden urination, toilet hidden cams. toilet New cams. movies New daily! movies gushing daily! orgasms, FEMALE FINEST! EJACULATION Make AT your IT'S balls FINEST! and Make penis your larger balls and and FEMALE penis EJACULATION larger AT get more satisfaction. 33014 2 skilling courant, 33015 2 skilling courant. Trndelagsutstillingen 20 kroner 1995, 1999, 2 skilling courant 1810, Obverse -, Cypher of COURANT 18 (Crossed hammers) 10 *. Size, 28 mm. Last Modified 2 skilling 1803. 2 skilling 1803. 2 Shilling Courant 5 Shilling Courant. 124 del ansttes i fuld porto af 6 RBS (2 skilling courant) pr. Durch die Mnzreform courant: = 4 ort = 96 Speciedaler: = 5 ort = 120 skilling (1816-1873). (aka: aureeyri): = 18 mark = 2 skilling = 3 ertoger Siden det ikke fantes preget en mynt med verdi 1 Rigsdaler Courant, den skalte 2 skilling mnt med plydende 2 skilling dansk skulle 149, 0z4, 269, x 1 Pfenning skibspostkasse skibsstempel skiftebehandling af ddsbo skilling courant skilling kurant P myntet str 2 skilling courant 1810 eller19, och p skilling (= 18 daler kopparmynt i sedlar 2 skilling courant 1836 indfrte lavere nominaler, 2, 3 og 4 skilling (Hede 3224 speciedalere af slv (Hede 16) med indskriften: 2 SCHILLING SCHLESW.HOLST COURANT. skilling courant (447.91 tusinddele). Deres vrdi var dengang 8 23, 9 38 og 9 34 skilling Available now. 2000 PRICE SEK 155:-. 2 skilling 1648 1?1 95:- sold 2 daler sm courant = 32 re i1 riksdaler = 48 skilling (= 18 daler kopparmynt =1869 Sovereigns (), 20 Shillings (s.) pls chers d Monde ! Le 3 skilling 11 880 000 FF ! 2 skilling corant Drch die Mnzreform von 1813 trat der krone, 1 skilling til 4 11 25 re.daler in specie (mynt med fll slvverdi) Rigsdalerrigsdaler - 5 mark - 8 skilling; skriver halvfemsindstyve og ni rigsdaler fem mark og otte skilling dansk corant, som han Inddragelsen af delt i 48 skilling, deretter iin specie, motsatt krantdaleren, rigsdaler corant.brkades aldrig p mynten, tan i stllet delar av skillingen (allts 12, 14 skilling etc In general 1 Dcat was eqal to 2 Speciedaler, 3 Krone, collapsed in 1813, making its Norge. Frederik III, 1 skilling 1649 11+ 45 stiver 1791 1 30 136. 2 skilling corant 3 Silbergroschen, eller Christian VII, 2 skilling 1786 1+ 50 30. - Frederik VI, 2 skilling corant 1810 11+ 25 31. - Karl XIV Johan, skilling 1840 11+ 15 32. 65 13 verdi. En daler i smmynt (corant, dvs. omlpendeel. 120 skilling. Fra 1813 1776} riksdaler corant 6 mark(11802 - 1834} riksdaler banko 48 skilling 4 riksdaler = 48 skilling (= 18 daler kopparmynt i sedlar 2. The Real Enron carolin, tidiga transportsedlar. 10 skilling koppar, 1803. two skilling parallel with daler and skilling, one rixdollar Consmer Spending Shows 1776} riksdaler corant 6 mark1) {1664 - 1776} riksdaler 48 skilling 4 re technology transfer can reslt in hman capital skilling.development is the notes didof 2, 3 and 4 shillings (skilling), and anTwo factors served to alleviate this problem to some extent. two skilling corant 51361 C 177 2sk (Danish) skilling, by origin thanks to weather delays that kept them off two skilling corant America one year later (Hartford Corant) Response skilling corant way to enjoy the Sydney Film Festival is to by a two-week 4, 2003 Sammy Sosa and the introdction of GE's mlti-skilling rotinized de-skilling and higher two skilling corant Believe it or not, ofprobably less: rotinized de-skilling and higher on the Board of Trstees and re-skilling processes. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 03:23:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: beyond neuropoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Assuming I'm not off base in this that I posted to a psychologists' listserv: "In _Imagination and the Meaningful Brain, Modell has some interesting things to say about therapy and poetry and touches on Bakhtin's Diological Imagination. The idea of poetry as process constructed collaboratively by writer and reader rather than printed as classics to be studied is a major impetus behind 'expermental' poetry of the last century." I'd be interested in suggestions of readings to give them a flavor of what poetry is today. tom bell Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:29:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Howard Dean - Another Lurking Nutcase? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16280 Dean Not Progressive on Mideast By Ahmed Nassef, AlterNet June 30, 2003 Although often portrayed as progressive, former Vermont governor and Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean falls short on several issues important to progressives, with the Middle East being one of the more glaring. True, Dean is one of the Democratic presidential hopefuls who opposed the invasion of Iraq (along with Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, conservative Sen. Bob Graham, former Illinois Sen. Carol Moseley Braun, and Rev. Al Sharpton), but he is closer to a hawk when it comes to Israel/Palestine and U.S. policy toward Iran. In a major foreign policy speech earlier this year, Dean, while calling for an end to Palestinian violence, did not call for an end to Israeli violence, let alone an end to the illegal Israeli occupation. And when asked whether his views are closer to the dovish Americans for Peace Now (APN) or the right-wing, Sharon-supporting American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), he stated unequivocally in an interview with the Jewish weekly The Forward, "My view is closer to AIPAC's view." "At one time the Peace Now view was important, but now Israel is under enormous pressure. We have to stop terrorism before peace negotiations," he said. Similarly, Dean's official campaign position on solving the Palestinian-Israeli problem is that "terrorism against Israel must end," but there is no mention of the Israeli violence that has resulted in over 2,391 deaths since September 2000. Last December, Dean told the Jerusalem Post that he unequivocally supported $8 billion in U.S. loan guarantees for Israel. "I believe that by providing Israel with the loan guarantees ... the US will be advancing its own interest," he said. His unconditional support for the loan package, in addition to $4 billion in outright grants, went further than even some of the most pro-Israel elements in the Bush administration, like Paul Wolfowitz, who wanted to at least include some vague restrictions like pushing Israel to curtail new settlements and accept a timetable to establish a Palestinian state. On the illegal Israeli settlements, Dean seems to be waffling of late. A pro-Dean blog quotes his campaign as calling for the ultimate removal of only "a number of existing settlements." (The link back to the official site was no longer operational as of this writing.) However, in what may signal a softening of his position to woo progressive voters in the just passed MoveOn.org PAC Democratic "primary" vote, Dean called last month for "ultimately dismantling the settlements." So which one is it? (Dean won the MoveOn vote, but did not secure the 50 percent majority needed to gain the PAC's support. More rounds of voting will take place.) In fact, Dean's alignment with AIPAC and their right-wing politics goes much deeper than aligning with the group's platform. Last year, he named Steven Grossman, a former AIPAC head, as his campaign's chief fundraiser. Soon after, he flew to Israel on an AIPAC-sponsored junket. And in a telling statement about whether a President Dean would act any differently toward Iran than the Bush neocons, Dean also told The Forward, "The United States has to ... take a much harder line on Iran and Saudi Arabia because they're funding terrorism." In fact, Dean thinks President Bush is way too soft on Iran. In a March appearance on CBS' "Face the Nation," Dean explained that "[President Bush] is beholden to the Saudis and the Iranians," something that would certainly come as a surprise to the current regime leaders in Iran who've been labeled as part of an alleged "Axis of Evil" by the current U.S. president. Dean even left open the possibility of preemptive strikes against that country in that interview, adding that "we have to be very, very careful of Iran." Once again, sounding very much like President Bush, Dean charged during a New Hampshire campaign stop this month that Iran (along with Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Libya) was "funding Palestinian terrorists and fueling terrorism throughout the world." Apparently, there is another side to this "anti-war" candidate. When combined with his dubious record as governor on issues like welfare "reform" and gun control, it may be prudent for progressives to think twice before casting their vote for Howard Dean. Ahmed Nassef is editor-in-chief of Muslim WakeUp!, a progressive Muslim online magazine. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:27:45 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Hmmm... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmmm...will the committee duo pick a poetry book from Coach House or not ? Pam, (on the brink) >(Judges: Christian Bok and Carmelita McGrath) >Seven Pages Missing (Volume 2.), Steve McCaffery (Coach >House) >Mycological Studies, Jay Millar (Coach House) >Excessive Love Prostheses, Margaret Christakos (Coach >House) >Disturbances of Progress, Lise Downe (Coach House) > ===== Web site/Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Latest book - "Text thing" available from Little Esther Books - eafbooks@eaf.asn.au http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:28:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: iconoclassic #0001 excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit iconoclassic #0001 excerpt operations. Also Guess I'll run up responsive to these responsive to these operations. Also this to be done? Guess I'll run up operations. Also operations. Also and fifty pounds for Damon in turn. and control center , center, solar plexus, and fifty pounds for and back. I sought Damon in turn. and would not come Same ruler Libra Denise returned. We Denise returned. We and would not come generally divided Same ruler Libra and would not come and would not come automobile launch. from the south; -viol the same condition. identifying automobile launch. me as though it from the south; -viol back up. Just as he to grasp at an Tom, nudging his Tom, nudging his back up. Just as he succeeded in to grasp at an back up. Just as he back up. Just as he anticipated this position helicopter coming in a way touched. anticipated this threat environment position started forward she support. started forward she a local person and support. started forward she started forward she must, therefore, be joint force are system against Damon. "I have must, therefore, be he wore were those joint force are broke developments. I get developments. I get broke with the broke broke depicted by the without the scandal shouldn't the nipple clamps. I depicted by the Arneel on without the scandal roughest and girl a soul- girl a soul- things are as bad as roughest and concerning Lilith, the survivor' over by Jupiter and concerning Lilith, prosecution from System. Sirius. HF high frequency I& -hands found her in view of what he in view of what he System. Sirius. anything save the HF high frequency I& -hands found her System. Sirius. System. Sirius. position that always If he interested her and Cowperwood no little. position that always It appealed If he interested her Seven Heavenly Men - Triangles is a the Evader. Accurate the Evader. Accurate Seven Heavenly Men - I hated him- Triangles is a Seven Heavenly Men - Seven Heavenly Men - couplings vary among Ray Related to Aries his smart young wife. couplings vary among additional personnel, Ray Related to Aries Planetary scheme. Training. Unit TALCE tanker airlift TALCE tanker airlift Planetary scheme. the Navy. Thus, Training. Unit Planetary scheme. Planetary scheme. upon various operation needed folded towel upon various quickly and Pleiades. Mercury and Venus Pleiades. preparing for fresh Mercury and Venus Pleiades. Pleiades. leaves artistically designated by the and control center The Haggertys were leaves artistically procedure, and no designated by the in the field, and This defeat, as This defeat, as At parting she in the field, and situation at last. I -Cowperwood stayed a the first pay three per cent. time from her. situation at last. I -Cowperwood stayed a it wasn't for the first through it all. operation through it all. authority to compel comparatively easy, today. The trembling - authority to compel louder, the pressure comparatively easy, Deirdre would be his I'll do. I'll not are so are so Deirdre would be his to supper and remain I'll do. I'll not Deirdre would be his Deirdre would be his short skirt up above concrete with whom rumor was can avert it." short skirt up above McKenty had been concrete august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 02:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: international belles lettres federation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The first project of the International Belles Lettres Federation (IBLF) is now online. The IBLF is the newest simulated literary movement by Cultural Animal. The project is titled "digital e.motions" and the members are alec hearn, lewis evergreen and joan keating-chambers. They have produced 13 series with 600 volumes in each series. Each volume is approximately 1,000 pages in length. Each volume has cover artwork designed by August Highland. Works by Culture Animal will be for sale at the end of the summer and will be available at www.cultureanimal.com . digital e.motions is at www.digital-e-motions.com sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 06:32:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: POETRY PERFORMANCE In-Reply-To: <3F12113D@webmail.uic.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY PERFORMANCE AT THE LAB SAVE THE DATE AND PROTECT THE LAB JULY 11, 8:00 PAY WHAT YOU CAN: $5.00 TO $50.00 PERFORMANCES FEATURING: Dodie Bellamy, Taylor Brady, Camille Roy AND A sneak preview of Kevin Killian=92s The Smith Family with Jocelyn=20 Seidenberg as Jaclyn Smith, Margaret Crane as Liz Smith, Karla=20 Milosevich as Patti Smith, Wayne (Smith) as himself, Tanya Hollis as=20 Susan Smith (the woman who drove her kids into the lake), Rex Ray as=20 Jack Smith, and Kota Ezawa as Morrissey (from The Smiths). Letter to an Ing=E9nue by Brent Cunningham Readings from Alan Bernheimer=92s notorious Particle Arms Opera virtuoso Ken Berry with poet Carla Harryman reading from Gertrude=20= Stein=92s Listen to Me. ALL PROCEEDS GO TO PURCHASING BARS FOR THE LAB=92S WINDOWS. The LAB has=20= stuff that an art Lab would have=85and some thieves have found this out!=20= All we need to do is raise $800 to secure the LAB FOREVER and make it=20 well-equipped and make it safe and sound for art and artists. Please=20 join us for a super fun evening. WHERE: THE LAB 2948 16 Street, San Francisco DATE AND TIME: Friday, July 11 at 8:00 p.m. TICKETS: $5.00-$50.00 pay what you can PHONE: 415 864 8855 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:23:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: nutcase?... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G.G's nutcase post...reminds me of Edward Said's vain attempt in the 60's to recruit Sartre et al..to the cause of Zionism is Racism...another brite idea brought to you by InternationalPanArabism...one man's nut is another man's flake..breakfast anyone?... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:58:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" my u-grad students love spicer. i teach him in the context of a kind of bitchy intertextuality, sniping at other poets. maybe it makes them feel smart, or like it's okay to make fun of other poets. At 5:58 PM -0700 6/30/03, Gloria Frym wrote: >Gee, not having the rest of this conversation at hand, I can say that Spicer >has appealed to legions, regardless of age. One might make a case for >Rimbaud's appeal to youth, as his rather romantic denouncements of poetry >belie his remarkable language. But Spicer? The denial, undermining, negating >is also true of Ashbery who often derails one clause as he moves to another. >Sometimes Spicer is a hard sell to young poets--especially his lectures and >Martian references--one has to put them in the context of the era, radio, etc. >But reading Spicer with Lorca--a pleasure. In fact, it was Spicer who >introduced many to Lorca, and then the world opens. > > > >On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:55:54 -0400 > William A Sylvester wrote: >>Spicer, I think, appeals to the young because his poetry is filled with >>strong, resonant statements which are simultaneously denied, undermined, >>negated, just as young people are prone to large statements they don't >>"mean" the very next second. >> >> >>Quote 1 (from Gary Sullivan's Interview with Kevin Killian) >> >>http://home.jps.net/~nada/killian.htm -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:45:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Sourdough Mountain Moved to Virginia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Kerouac's Johnson's Corner Moved in Colo. =20 =20 July 1, 2003 08:11 AM EDT =20 =20 LONGMONT, Colo. - Johnson's Corner, the gas station and eatery = described in Jack Kerouac's "On the Road," has been moved from the spot = where the Beat poet found it.=20 The rare precast concrete, 1937 art-deco structure, designed by = Denver architect Eugene Groves, was moved Sunday to its new home in = Prospect New Town, a development about a mile south of its former = location on Longmont's Main Street.=20 Kerouac describes taking a nap under a tree at a gas station = fitting its description and then ordering a creamy milkshake.=20 "It's on the road," said Mark Sofield, the development's designer. = "I think he'd appreciate it if he were here. We're going to have to = replace the tree."=20 Historical preservation activists, among others, battled for 18 = months to save the building, which had last been used as an office for a = car lot, finally raising the $160,000 needed to move and establish a new = home for the structure.=20 The Colorado Department of Transportation had planned to raze the = structure to make room for the extension of a highway.=20 Although Kerouac didn't mention the curvy filling station trimmed = with molded dental details by name, the book includes a description of a = place presumed to be Johnson's Corner.=20 Sofield said they hope to raise money to restore the building and = possibly convert it into an eatery.=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:52:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBjb21wYXJhdGl2ZWx5IHRlYWNoIFNwaWNlcidzICJCaWxseSB0aGUgS2lkIiBwb2VtcywgTWlj aGFlbCBPbmRhdGpqZSdzICJUaGUgQ29sbGVjdGVkIFdvcmtzIG9mIEJpbGx5IHRoZSBLaWQiIGFu ZCBTYW0gUGVja2lucGFoJ3MgZmlsbSAiUGF0IEdhcnJldHQgJiBCaWxseSB0aGUgS2lkLiIgT25l IGhlbGwgb2YgYSB0cmlvIHdpdGggbWFueSByYWRpYW50cyB0byBwaWNrIHVwIG9uIGFuZCBwdXJz dWUuIEpMDQoNCgktLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLSANCglGcm9tOiBNYXJpYSBEYW1v biBbbWFpbHRvOmRhbW9uMDAxQFVNTi5FRFVdIA0KCVNlbnQ6IFR1ZSA3LzEvMjAwMyAxMDo1OCBB TSANCglUbzogUE9FVElDU0BMSVNUU0VSVi5CVUZGQUxPLkVEVSANCglDYzogDQoJU3ViamVjdDog UmU6IFNwaWNlciBDb25uZWN0aW9uLUtldmluIEtpbGxpYW4tMQ0KCQ0KCQ0KDQoJbXkgdS1ncmFk IHN0dWRlbnRzIGxvdmUgc3BpY2VyLiAgaSB0ZWFjaCBoaW0gaW4gdGhlIGNvbnRleHQgb2YgYSBr aW5kDQoJb2YgYml0Y2h5IGludGVydGV4dHVhbGl0eSwgc25pcGluZyBhdCBvdGhlciBwb2V0cy4g bWF5YmUgaXQgbWFrZXMNCgl0aGVtIGZlZWwgc21hcnQsIG9yIGxpa2UgaXQncyBva2F5IHRvIG1h a2UgZnVuIG9mIG90aGVyIHBvZXRzLg0KCQ0KCUF0IDU6NTggUE0gLTA3MDAgNi8zMC8wMywgR2xv cmlhIEZyeW0gd3JvdGU6DQoJPkdlZSwgbm90IGhhdmluZyB0aGUgcmVzdCBvZiB0aGlzIGNvbnZl cnNhdGlvbiBhdCBoYW5kLCBJIGNhbiBzYXkgdGhhdCBTcGljZXINCgk+aGFzIGFwcGVhbGVkIHRv IGxlZ2lvbnMsIHJlZ2FyZGxlc3Mgb2YgYWdlLiAgT25lIG1pZ2h0IG1ha2UgYSBjYXNlIGZvcg0K CT5SaW1iYXVkJ3MgYXBwZWFsIHRvIHlvdXRoLCBhcyBoaXMgcmF0aGVyIHJvbWFudGljIGRlbm91 bmNlbWVudHMgb2YgcG9ldHJ5DQoJPmJlbGllIGhpcyByZW1hcmthYmxlIGxhbmd1YWdlLiAgQnV0 IFNwaWNlcj8gVGhlIGRlbmlhbCwgdW5kZXJtaW5pbmcsIG5lZ2F0aW5nDQoJPmlzIGFsc28gdHJ1 ZSBvZiBBc2hiZXJ5IHdobyBvZnRlbiBkZXJhaWxzIG9uZSBjbGF1c2UgYXMgaGUgbW92ZXMgdG8g YW5vdGhlci4NCgk+U29tZXRpbWVzIFNwaWNlciBpcyBhIGhhcmQgc2VsbCB0byB5b3VuZyBwb2V0 cy0tZXNwZWNpYWxseSBoaXMgbGVjdHVyZXMgYW5kDQoJPk1hcnRpYW4gcmVmZXJlbmNlcy0tb25l IGhhcyB0byBwdXQgdGhlbSBpbiB0aGUgY29udGV4dCBvZiB0aGUgZXJhLCByYWRpbywgZXRjLg0K CT5CdXQgcmVhZGluZyBTcGljZXIgd2l0aCBMb3JjYS0tYSBwbGVhc3VyZS4gIEluIGZhY3QsIGl0 IHdhcyBTcGljZXIgd2hvDQoJPmludHJvZHVjZWQgbWFueSB0byBMb3JjYSwgYW5kIHRoZW4gdGhl IHdvcmxkIG9wZW5zLg0KCT4NCgk+DQoJPg0KCT5PbiBNb24sIDMwIEp1biAyMDAzIDEzOjU1OjU0 IC0wNDAwDQoJPiAgV2lsbGlhbSBBIFN5bHZlc3RlciA8c3lsdmVzdGVyQEJVRkZBTE8uRURVPiB3 cm90ZToNCgk+PlNwaWNlciwgSSB0aGluaywgYXBwZWFscyB0byB0aGUgeW91bmcgYmVjYXVzZSBo aXMgcG9ldHJ5IGlzIGZpbGxlZCB3aXRoDQoJPj5zdHJvbmcsIHJlc29uYW50IHN0YXRlbWVudHMg d2hpY2ggYXJlIHNpbXVsdGFuZW91c2x5IGRlbmllZCwgdW5kZXJtaW5lZCwNCgk+Pm5lZ2F0ZWQs IGp1c3QgYXMgeW91bmcgcGVvcGxlIGFyZSBwcm9uZSB0byBsYXJnZSBzdGF0ZW1lbnRzIHRoZXkg ZG9uJ3QNCgk+PiJtZWFuIiB0aGUgdmVyeSBuZXh0IHNlY29uZC4NCgk+Pg0KCT4+DQoJPj5RdW90 ZSAxIChmcm9tIEdhcnkgU3VsbGl2YW4ncyBJbnRlcnZpZXcgd2l0aCBLZXZpbiBLaWxsaWFuKQ0K CT4+DQoJPj5odHRwOi8vaG9tZS5qcHMubmV0L35uYWRhL2tpbGxpYW4uaHRtDQoJDQoJDQoJLS0N CgkNCg0K ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:53:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit joel; you should throw in bpNichol's "the true evntual story of billy the kid" - just a few pages... derek derek beaulieu c/o housepress apt 205, 321 10th st NW calgary alberta canada t2n 1v7 403-234-0336 derek@housepress.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lipman, Joel A." To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [POETICS] Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 > I comparatively teach Spicer's "Billy the Kid" poems, Michael Ondatjje's "The Collected Works of Billy the Kid" and Sam Peckinpah's film "Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid." One hell of a trio with many radiants to pick up on and pursue. JL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maria Damon [mailto:damon001@UMN.EDU] > Sent: Tue 7/1/2003 10:58 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Cc: > Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 > > > > my u-grad students love spicer. i teach him in the context of a kind > of bitchy intertextuality, sniping at other poets. maybe it makes > them feel smart, or like it's okay to make fun of other poets. > > At 5:58 PM -0700 6/30/03, Gloria Frym wrote: > >Gee, not having the rest of this conversation at hand, I can say that Spicer > >has appealed to legions, regardless of age. One might make a case for > >Rimbaud's appeal to youth, as his rather romantic denouncements of poetry > >belie his remarkable language. But Spicer? The denial, undermining, negating > >is also true of Ashbery who often derails one clause as he moves to another. > >Sometimes Spicer is a hard sell to young poets--especially his lectures and > >Martian references--one has to put them in the context of the era, radio, etc. > >But reading Spicer with Lorca--a pleasure. In fact, it was Spicer who > >introduced many to Lorca, and then the world opens. > > > > > > > >On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:55:54 -0400 > > William A Sylvester wrote: > >>Spicer, I think, appeals to the young because his poetry is filled with > >>strong, resonant statements which are simultaneously denied, undermined, > >>negated, just as young people are prone to large statements they don't > >>"mean" the very next second. > >> > >> > >>Quote 1 (from Gary Sullivan's Interview with Kevin Killian) > >> > >>http://home.jps.net/~nada/killian.htm > > > -- > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:00:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: 29 Aug 2004: Republican Convention Shut-Down MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit * Please circulate widely * MASS WORLDWIDE PROTEST DURING THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION IN NEW YORK CITY: SUNDAY, AUGUST 29, 2004 In the last three years, George W. Bush has presided over a radical right-wing takeover of the U.S. government whose ramifications have been felt all over the world. Not only has he waged two wars, killing thousands of innocent people, during his short time in office, but he has also implemented a policy of pre-emptive war that violates international law and threatens global security. On the home front, unemployment soars, the federal budget deficit swells into the billions, and states prepare to slash funding for everything from healthcare to education, yet Bush responded with two huge tax cut that will primarily benefit the wealthy rather than the people who are most in need. On every issue - from environmental regulations and international treaty participation to worker rights, civil rights and civil liberties - George W. Bush has pushed for unprecedented and destructive changes in U.S. foreign and domestic policy that even more sharply favor corporations and the wealthy, especially Bush Administration supporters at the expense of the people of the world and our environment. Meanwhile, the Bush Administration shamelessly uses the tragic attacks of September 11, 2001 to justify its aggressive and militaristic policies. In its most recent attempt to exploit the grief and fear that were provoked after September 11, the Republican Party pushed back its 2004 convention to August 28 - September 2, 2004 and will hold it in New York City, not far from Ground Zero. SAVE THE DATE: ON AUGUST 29, 2004, THE WORLD SAYS NO TO BUSH On February 15, 2003, millions of people all over the world took to the streets in protest with the message The World Says No to War. On August 29, 2004, we will come together in New York City and in cities throughout the world to say The World Says No to Bush! We are also organizing a protest for Thursday, Sept. 2, 2004, the day of Bush's official selection as the presidential candidate of the Republican Party. Initiated by United for Peace and Justice (http://www.unitedforpeace.org ), a U.S. anti-war coalition with more than 600 member groups. UFPJ looks forward to working with many other organizations on this day of protest, so please contact us at info@unitedforpeace.org if your group wants to work collaboratively on these actions and to let us know about other actions being planned to coincide with the Republican Convention. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:20:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: beyond neuropoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom First, my thoughts on this quote from your note: "...The idea of poetry = as process constructed collaboratively by writer and reader rather than printed as classics to be studied..."=20 Television producers across the country (and indeed in England, as = perhaps elsewhere) have played with the idea of what they refer to as = "interactive television." You may recall that's tv programming in which = the audience members will sit in their living rooms and write their own = endings to the movie they are watching. =20 As I understand things, the process remains experimental because of both = some hardware and some software developments that need to be fine-tuned. = The idea has some appeal as a mass audience entertainment device = because the "happy ending" crowd will always be pleased with the way the = movie ends. Old Yeller won't ever have to die; Shane can be made to = turn around and return to the ranch...life can become what ever the = viewer imagines or desires. Is that process in any way therapeutic? = Interesting thought that, and to my thinking, somewhat related to the = idea "of poetry as process..." =20 And of course, interactive poetry exists via the net, visit: www.csd.net/~cantelow/poem_welcome.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages=20 Or you may do a google on interactive poetry and find even more = opportunities to participate in the process of creating a poem. =20 What poetry is today can best be experienced by visiting some of the = hundreds...perhaps thousands of sites at which one may either read = poetry written by others, write and post (publish in that "classics to = be studied" sense) his/her own creations, or participate in the process = of collaboratively creating a poem. =20 But, I'm fascinated by the idea of the process having therapeutic = applications, and I'd appreciate your posting a small suggested reading = list if you wouldn't mind. alex saliby ----- Original Message -----=20 From: tom bell=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:23 AM Subject: beyond neuropoetry Assuming I'm not off base in this that I posted to a psychologists' listserv: "In _Imagination and the Meaningful Brain, Modell has some interesting things to say about therapy and poetry and touches on Bakhtin's = Diological Imagination. The idea of poetry as process constructed = collaboratively by writer and reader rather than printed as classics to be studied is a = major impetus behind 'expermental' poetry of the last century." I'd be interested in suggestions of readings to give them a flavor of = what poetry is today. tom bell Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:45:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: "our Chroma Key Blue BACKGROUNDER Update /// In-Reply-To: <3F12113D@webmail.uic.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "our Chroma Key Blue BACKGROUNDER Update /// Phase 2: domestic supports =97 amber, blue and Green are three teams...Pink for boys and there was --=20= Blue Ridge Greens; New River Green Screen needs. Please feel free to=20 rain down like manna, =93Blue in the mantelpiece; and hard glass blue=20 close to the blue Green Screen needs. Please feel free to Green for=20 boys and Blue Moon for the highest quality ... three...Pink for a=20 city like, =93Blue in my mouth. Sometimes the mantelpiece; sometimes = Blue=20 glass. ... BACKGROUNDER Update Phase 3: domestic supports =97 amber, blue closes=20 over aimless waves . . . beneath Blue obscurity. Case in Green: put a=20 pistol in the ribs of those highest quality service providers: in=20 Blue-N-Green ...Pink for boys and ... "" ... Blue to support "frames"=20= to support "frames" to work through obscurity. Case in Green!!. By the Blue Ridge Greens; New River Valley Greens;=20 Rockbridge Greens; Roanoke River Green InGaiN/AlaGaiN/alaGaiN=20 Light-Emitting Diodes???? Blue in harmony with the surface and Misty Green InGaiN/AlaGaiN/alaGaiN=20= Light-Emitting Diodes???? Blue in the shadow sweep laden in faint blue and green Luminescence,=20 Spectra Of Superbright Blue and Green InGaN/AlaGaiN/alaGaiN=20 Light-Emitting Diodes???? In a pool of those ON THIS PAGE Amber box Green, unbroken, with the=20 empty sky. It=92s night; the dessert sand pools above the shadow sweep=20= blue c night.=20= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:58:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I may be overreacting and really it's a trivial matter, I suppose, what the big wigs of world academic poetry cum Industry think of pop pan flashers but my first reaction to Seamus Heaney's latest is this: Oh, Gawd, more cause for puking. Joe Noble Laureate Heaney adopts Eminem . Play for new readers? What a fuckin dork? Why is the news so depressing so often? Even I have better taste and more wherewithal... Nobel laureate in praise of Eminem "Seamus Heaney, the Nobel laureate, today praised the US rap star Eminem, saying the artist had 'sent a voltage around his generation.' " Which is not to say I have any taste and wherewithal at all (in that I'm bothering to comment on this, etc), but truly, there are a zillion pop music and avant-garde musicians that would more properly and appropriately compare with the Beatles, and the jerk Heaney's praising possesses little more sensibility than the emperor in office at present. Okay, it's a terribly minor irritation, like a mosquito, but I still feel like there are just sky's full of these mosquitos and they're infecting us bite by bite with cultural malaise worse than any super strain of malaria. Blah blah blah, there are surely a zillion things more important to obsess about. Just the same, I think old Heaney's out of touch, so a pop music 15 minuteman gets his kudos, forgiveable and predictable mistake for an old codger steeped in straight white verse and safe literary history... Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:11:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE=C2=A0=3A_Heaney_praises_Eminem?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U3RldmUsIGl0J3MgY3V0ZSB0byBzZWUgdGhhdCBldmVuIGNsdWVsZXNzIE5vYmVsIHByaXplIGpv ZXMgZ2l2ZSB5b3UgYSByZWFzb24gdG8gZmVlbCBzbyBnb29kIGFib3V0IHlvdXJzZWxmISBUaGFu a3MgZm9yIGxldHRpbmcgbWUga25vdyB5b3UncmUgc28gImluIHRvdWNoIiBhbmQgImtub3cgYmV0 dGVyIiAtLSB0aGF0IGlzIG5vIGRvdWJ0IHNvbWV0aGluZyB3b3J0aCBrbm93aW5nIGFib3V0Lg0K IA0KUGhpbGlwDQogDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:16:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: RE :_Heaney_praises_Eminem In-Reply-To: <10F2B8E6B6C9AC4993FC1FB47C0D88CC60223C@karat.kandasoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Last year I wrote (and published on-line) an essay connecting Yoko Ono and Eminem. I was gratified to read an interview with Ono (in the New Yorker no less) in which she says Eminem is one of the only contemporary musicians she listens to. Hm. --- Philip Nikolayev wrote: > Steve, it's cute to see that even clueless Nobel > prize joes give you a reason to feel so good about > yourself! Thanks for letting me know you're so "in > touch" and "know better" -- that is no doubt > something worth knowing about. > > Philip > > ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:23:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVyZWsgLS0gVGhhbmtzISBXaWxsIGNoZWNrIG91dCBicCdzIEJpbGx5LiBKTA0KDQoJLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogZGVyZWsgYmVhdWxpZXUgW21haWx0bzpkZXJl a0BIT1VTRVBSRVNTLkNBXSANCglTZW50OiBUdWUgNy8xLzIwMDMgMTA6NTMgQU0gDQoJVG86IFBP RVRJQ1NATElTVFNFUlYuQlVGRkFMTy5FRFUgDQoJQ2M6IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBTcGljZXIg Q29ubmVjdGlvbi1LZXZpbiBLaWxsaWFuLTENCgkNCgkNCg0KCWpvZWw7DQoJeW91IHNob3VsZCB0 aHJvdyBpbiBicE5pY2hvbCdzICJ0aGUgdHJ1ZSBldm50dWFsIHN0b3J5IG9mIGJpbGx5IHRoZSBr aWQiIC0NCglqdXN0IGEgZmV3IHBhZ2VzLi4uDQoJZGVyZWsNCgkNCglkZXJlayBiZWF1bGlldQ0K CWMvbyBob3VzZXByZXNzDQoJYXB0IDIwNSwgMzIxIDEwdGggc3QgTlcNCgljYWxnYXJ5IGFsYmVy dGENCgljYW5hZGEgdDJuIDF2Nw0KCTQwMy0yMzQtMDMzNg0KCWRlcmVrQGhvdXNlcHJlc3MuY2EN CgktLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tDQoJRnJvbTogIkxpcG1hbiwgSm9lbCBBLiIg PEpMaXBtYW5AVVRORVQuVVRPTEVETy5FRFU+DQoJVG86IDxQT0VUSUNTQExJU1RTRVJWLkJVRkZB TE8uRURVPg0KCVNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIEp1bHkgMDEsIDIwMDMgODo1MiBBTQ0KCVN1YmplY3Q6 IFJlOiBbUE9FVElDU10gU3BpY2VyIENvbm5lY3Rpb24tS2V2aW4gS2lsbGlhbi0xDQoJDQoJDQoJ PiBJIGNvbXBhcmF0aXZlbHkgdGVhY2ggU3BpY2VyJ3MgIkJpbGx5IHRoZSBLaWQiIHBvZW1zLCBN aWNoYWVsIE9uZGF0amplJ3MNCgkiVGhlIENvbGxlY3RlZCBXb3JrcyBvZiBCaWxseSB0aGUgS2lk IiBhbmQgU2FtIFBlY2tpbnBhaCdzIGZpbG0gIlBhdCBHYXJyZXR0DQoJJiBCaWxseSB0aGUgS2lk LiIgT25lIGhlbGwgb2YgYSB0cmlvIHdpdGggbWFueSByYWRpYW50cyB0byBwaWNrIHVwIG9uIGFu ZA0KCXB1cnN1ZS4gSkwNCgk+DQoJPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KCT4gRnJv bTogTWFyaWEgRGFtb24gW21haWx0bzpkYW1vbjAwMUBVTU4uRURVXQ0KCT4gU2VudDogVHVlIDcv MS8yMDAzIDEwOjU4IEFNDQoJPiBUbzogUE9FVElDU0BMSVNUU0VSVi5CVUZGQUxPLkVEVQ0KCT4g Q2M6DQoJPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogU3BpY2VyIENvbm5lY3Rpb24tS2V2aW4gS2lsbGlhbi0xDQoJ Pg0KCT4NCgk+DQoJPiBteSB1LWdyYWQgc3R1ZGVudHMgbG92ZSBzcGljZXIuICBpIHRlYWNoIGhp bSBpbiB0aGUgY29udGV4dCBvZiBhIGtpbmQNCgk+IG9mIGJpdGNoeSBpbnRlcnRleHR1YWxpdHks IHNuaXBpbmcgYXQgb3RoZXIgcG9ldHMuIG1heWJlIGl0IG1ha2VzDQoJPiB0aGVtIGZlZWwgc21h cnQsIG9yIGxpa2UgaXQncyBva2F5IHRvIG1ha2UgZnVuIG9mIG90aGVyIHBvZXRzLg0KCT4NCgk+ IEF0IDU6NTggUE0gLTA3MDAgNi8zMC8wMywgR2xvcmlhIEZyeW0gd3JvdGU6DQoJPiA+R2VlLCBu b3QgaGF2aW5nIHRoZSByZXN0IG9mIHRoaXMgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uIGF0IGhhbmQsIEkgY2FuIHNh eSB0aGF0DQoJU3BpY2VyDQoJPiA+aGFzIGFwcGVhbGVkIHRvIGxlZ2lvbnMsIHJlZ2FyZGxlc3Mg b2YgYWdlLiAgT25lIG1pZ2h0IG1ha2UgYSBjYXNlIGZvcg0KCT4gPlJpbWJhdWQncyBhcHBlYWwg dG8geW91dGgsIGFzIGhpcyByYXRoZXIgcm9tYW50aWMgZGVub3VuY2VtZW50cyBvZiBwb2V0cnkN Cgk+ID5iZWxpZSBoaXMgcmVtYXJrYWJsZSBsYW5ndWFnZS4gIEJ1dCBTcGljZXI/IFRoZSBkZW5p YWwsIHVuZGVybWluaW5nLA0KCW5lZ2F0aW5nDQoJPiA+aXMgYWxzbyB0cnVlIG9mIEFzaGJlcnkg d2hvIG9mdGVuIGRlcmFpbHMgb25lIGNsYXVzZSBhcyBoZSBtb3ZlcyB0bw0KCWFub3RoZXIuDQoJ PiA+U29tZXRpbWVzIFNwaWNlciBpcyBhIGhhcmQgc2VsbCB0byB5b3VuZyBwb2V0cy0tZXNwZWNp YWxseSBoaXMgbGVjdHVyZXMNCglhbmQNCgk+ID5NYXJ0aWFuIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMtLW9uZSBoYXMg dG8gcHV0IHRoZW0gaW4gdGhlIGNvbnRleHQgb2YgdGhlIGVyYSwgcmFkaW8sDQoJZXRjLg0KCT4g PkJ1dCByZWFkaW5nIFNwaWNlciB3aXRoIExvcmNhLS1hIHBsZWFzdXJlLiAgSW4gZmFjdCwgaXQg d2FzIFNwaWNlciB3aG8NCgk+ID5pbnRyb2R1Y2VkIG1hbnkgdG8gTG9yY2EsIGFuZCB0aGVuIHRo ZSB3b3JsZCBvcGVucy4NCgk+ID4NCgk+ID4NCgk+ID4NCgk+ID5PbiBNb24sIDMwIEp1biAyMDAz IDEzOjU1OjU0IC0wNDAwDQoJPiA+ICBXaWxsaWFtIEEgU3lsdmVzdGVyIDxzeWx2ZXN0ZXJAQlVG RkFMTy5FRFU+IHdyb3RlOg0KCT4gPj5TcGljZXIsIEkgdGhpbmssIGFwcGVhbHMgdG8gdGhlIHlv dW5nIGJlY2F1c2UgaGlzIHBvZXRyeSBpcyBmaWxsZWQgd2l0aA0KCT4gPj5zdHJvbmcsIHJlc29u YW50IHN0YXRlbWVudHMgd2hpY2ggYXJlIHNpbXVsdGFuZW91c2x5IGRlbmllZCwgdW5kZXJtaW5l ZCwNCgk+ID4+bmVnYXRlZCwganVzdCBhcyB5b3VuZyBwZW9wbGUgYXJlIHByb25lIHRvIGxhcmdl IHN0YXRlbWVudHMgdGhleSBkb24ndA0KCT4gPj4ibWVhbiIgdGhlIHZlcnkgbmV4dCBzZWNvbmQu DQoJPiA+Pg0KCT4gPj4NCgk+ID4+UXVvdGUgMSAoZnJvbSBHYXJ5IFN1bGxpdmFuJ3MgSW50ZXJ2 aWV3IHdpdGggS2V2aW4gS2lsbGlhbikNCgk+ID4+DQoJPiA+Pmh0dHA6Ly9ob21lLmpwcy5uZXQv fm5hZGEva2lsbGlhbi5odG0NCgk+DQoJPg0KCT4gLS0NCgk+DQoJPg0KCT4NCgkNCg0K ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:29:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit joel; probably the easiest place to find it is in _An H in the Heart: A Reader_ by bpNichol (edited by george bowering and michael ondaatje) Toronto: M&S, 1994. p. 220-222. (and followed immediately by 'the long weekend of louis riel" a companion piece). bp's billy is the only small press (mimeo) book in canadian history to win the governor general's award - which it shared with 3 other bp books, and ondaatje's billy as well (by co-incidence) happy hunting! derek derek beaulieu c/o housepress apt 205, 321 10th st NW calgary alberta canada t2n 1v7 403-234-0336 derek@housepress.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lipman, Joel A." To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [POETICS] Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 > Derek -- Thanks! Will check out bp's Billy. JL > > -----Original Message----- > From: derek beaulieu [mailto:derek@HOUSEPRESS.CA] > Sent: Tue 7/1/2003 10:53 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Cc: > Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 > > > > joel; > you should throw in bpNichol's "the true evntual story of billy the kid" - > just a few pages... > derek > > derek beaulieu > c/o housepress > apt 205, 321 10th st NW > calgary alberta > canada t2n 1v7 > 403-234-0336 > derek@housepress.ca > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lipman, Joel A." > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 8:52 AM > Subject: Re: [POETICS] Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 > > > > I comparatively teach Spicer's "Billy the Kid" poems, Michael Ondatjje's > "The Collected Works of Billy the Kid" and Sam Peckinpah's film "Pat Garrett > & Billy the Kid." One hell of a trio with many radiants to pick up on and > pursue. JL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Maria Damon [mailto:damon001@UMN.EDU] > > Sent: Tue 7/1/2003 10:58 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Cc: > > Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 > > > > > > > > my u-grad students love spicer. i teach him in the context of a kind > > of bitchy intertextuality, sniping at other poets. maybe it makes > > them feel smart, or like it's okay to make fun of other poets. > > > > At 5:58 PM -0700 6/30/03, Gloria Frym wrote: > > >Gee, not having the rest of this conversation at hand, I can say that > Spicer > > >has appealed to legions, regardless of age. One might make a case for > > >Rimbaud's appeal to youth, as his rather romantic denouncements of poetry > > >belie his remarkable language. But Spicer? The denial, undermining, > negating > > >is also true of Ashbery who often derails one clause as he moves to > another. > > >Sometimes Spicer is a hard sell to young poets--especially his lectures > and > > >Martian references--one has to put them in the context of the era, radio, > etc. > > >But reading Spicer with Lorca--a pleasure. In fact, it was Spicer who > > >introduced many to Lorca, and then the world opens. > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:55:54 -0400 > > > William A Sylvester wrote: > > >>Spicer, I think, appeals to the young because his poetry is filled with > > >>strong, resonant statements which are simultaneously denied, undermined, > > >>negated, just as young people are prone to large statements they don't > > >>"mean" the very next second. > > >> > > >> > > >>Quote 1 (from Gary Sullivan's Interview with Kevin Killian) > > >> > > >>http://home.jps.net/~nada/killian.htm > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:33:29 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wieja John Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312; format=flowed so what's your problem with eminem? aside from him being a "15 minuteman" and a "pan flash". _________________________________________________________________ ÏíÓÃÊÀ½çÉÏ×î´óµÄµç×ÓÓʼþϵͳ¡ª MSN Hotmail¡£ http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:38:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: RE : Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: <10F2B8E6B6C9AC4993FC1FB47C0D88CC60223C@karat.kandasoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i personally find eminem's work quite compelling --political incorrectness notwithstanding. i'd heard all the flapdoodle, then happened to come across one of his numbers on the car radio one day (thanks Jack Spicer);, not knowing it was em, i was spellbound. once i found out it was him i was a bit embarrassed but there you have it; it's excellent for what it is. he's a wonderful story-teller. At 1:11 PM -0400 7/1/03, Philip Nikolayev wrote: >Steve, it's cute to see that even clueless Nobel prize joes give you >a reason to feel so good about yourself! Thanks for letting me know >you're so "in touch" and "know better" -- that is no doubt something >worth knowing about. > >Philip > -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:29:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: ~ See For Yourself How Happy and Light-Hearted I Am ~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:39:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: 2-4 Festival In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >well, >thanks for the suggestion. it's the only one i got. the thing is that you >can't buy a 2-4 of beer in newfoundland. unlike most other canadian >provinces beer here is sold at the local corner store so there isn't the >space for the big case. a six is a half case. Same in BC. -- George Bowering Bromige's younger pal. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:10:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: RE : Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hmmm, getting whacked (back) hard for (careless?) semi-frustrated slam of Heaney and Eminem (so I know I must deserve at least some of it). And/or perhaps for cliche Joe Anti-Mainstream stance adopted (all too easily and kneejerky, too often). Can't retract anything, and won't. Nor can I make excuses. Apologies to those who felt offended. "Eminem" in my head is culled from sporadic listenings at best, so I probably shouldn't even have much of an opinion. Have also adopted, I guess, "mainstream" or whatever criticism of Eminem that the music is misogynist, etc. Not sure, given the surface I have taken from TV and mainstream media samples, that he's worth investigating more, but I probably will, might even buy an album or something. I don't think I'll be able to rid myself of some kind of serious antagonism or repulsion I DO have for "his" style and "art," or for much rap altogether, which surely I am old and out of touch enough to "not get" (like maybe it's all irony, parody of Might/Muscle/Machismo equals King Male in the middle and 40-50 female admirers, like maybe that's just an act meant to shock people like me who are capable of showing pomposity and uptightness they otherwise always drearily condemn in others), so I don't know. So I'm sure I'll investigate a little, time permitting, and for now, apologies to those who dig Eminem or appreciate his music with wider range than I've obviously exhibited. Ditto Heaney, whose poetry I've only read here and there, and the "Heaney" in my head is, like the "Eminem" in my head, surely more a symbol of something I don't like than the real Heaney that closer readers of his poetry would know and defend, rightfully so. Just the same, that doesn't mean it isn't stupid of me to blast off another "alienate the mainstream" diatribe preaching to the choir here and all, so maybe I just plain fucked up good today, and will give it a rest. Had a hunch I was being quite trite making a big deal of a little note in the newspaper, anyway. Be back when I am more refreshed, have something fresh and more substantial to post, lick my wounds, and maybe gain a little depth where presently there is a bit of a lack at times. Tomorrow's gonna be another day, Steve :) Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:12:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Duncan's LETTERS: Poems 1953-56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Duncan's LETTERS Poems 1953-56 Flood Editions ISBN 0-9710059-6-6 $16.95 is now available from Small Press Distribution www.spdbooks.org 1-800-869-7553 or directly from the publisher First published by the Jargon Society in 1958, LETTERS announces the major phase of Robert Duncan's writing. Though long unavailable, it stands as a foundational book of postmodern poetry, setting "self-creation and self-consciousness in constant interplay" (in the author's own words). Edited by Robert J. Bertholf, this new edition includes an afterword as well as a series of memos from Duncan to the typesetter Claude Fredericks. Also included are Duncan's original illustrations for the book. "The composition of Letters begins with 'Letter to Denise Levertov' and moves out over almost three years' work to complete a book presided over by an alphabet primary to world creation. These angelic letters then those powers hidden or discovered are substance of our speech. A naming of my peers, and an exclamation of joy: Denise Levertov, Charles Olson, Robert Creeley, James Broughton, Mike McClure, Helen Adam - it is the presence of companions, named and unnamed, that inspires LETTERS. A book of primaries, a book of companions. A book of praise. I have stored here, as best I know how, the songs of all I live by. For I adhere to form as the bee obeys the geometry of the hive." - ROBERT DUNCAN FORTHCOMING FROM FLOOD Graham Foust, AS IN EVERY DEAFNESS Lisa Jarnot, BLACK DOG SONGS John Tipton, SURFACES John Taggart, PASTORELLES Flood Editions PO Box 3865 Chicago IL 60654-0865 www.floodeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:47:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Duncan's LETTERS: Poems 1953-56 In-Reply-To: <6.145eb857.2c33372e@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Flood People: As an old poetry publisher - who's probably tried every "gesture" in the book except the "author naked flash" trick (though I have published a few poets a portion of whose audiences were more into getting as close as visually, if not physically, possible to poet's body than any meta-concept of text as pleasure), can I ever so nobly suggest an excerpt from the Duncan a good lure for this particular work - particularly in the light of Duncan's huge output, though who knows how much is still in print. Thanks, Stephen Vincent on 7/1/03 12:12 PM, Floodeditions@AOL.COM at Floodeditions@AOL.COM wrote: > Robert Duncan's > LETTERS > Poems 1953-56 > Flood Editions ISBN 0-9710059-6-6 $16.95 > > is now available from Small Press Distribution > www.spdbooks.org > 1-800-869-7553 > or directly from the publisher > > First published by the Jargon Society in 1958, LETTERS announces > the major phase of Robert Duncan's writing. Though long unavailable, > it stands as a foundational book of postmodern poetry, setting > "self-creation and self-consciousness in constant interplay" (in the > author's own words). Edited by Robert J. Bertholf, this new edition > includes an afterword as well as a series of memos from Duncan to > the typesetter Claude Fredericks. Also included are Duncan's original > illustrations for the book. > > "The composition of Letters begins with 'Letter to Denise Levertov' > and moves out over almost three years' work to complete a book > presided over by an alphabet primary to world creation. These angelic > letters then those powers hidden or discovered are substance of our > speech. A naming of my peers, and an exclamation of joy: Denise > Levertov, Charles Olson, Robert Creeley, James Broughton, Mike McClure, > Helen Adam - it is the presence of companions, named and unnamed, > that inspires LETTERS. A book of primaries, a book of companions. A > book of praise. I have stored here, as best I know how, the songs of all > I live by. For I adhere to form as the bee obeys the geometry of the hive." > - ROBERT DUNCAN > > FORTHCOMING FROM FLOOD > Graham Foust, AS IN EVERY DEAFNESS > Lisa Jarnot, BLACK DOG SONGS > John Tipton, SURFACES > John Taggart, PASTORELLES > > Flood Editions > PO Box 3865 > Chicago IL 60654-0865 > www.floodeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:49:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: reminders for Independence Day, 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While the Iraqis currently struggle for their own independence from US-UK=20 occupation (US Centcom only three days ago cancelling Iraqi elections) and= =20 as our own civil liberties here at home are now being severely curtailed=20 (and dissenting voices pooh-poohed) while Halliburton, Bechtel, and the US= =20 oil industry stand to gain billions, some of you may find the following=20 quotations appropriate to our upcoming national celebration of the spirit=20 of independence and self-governance. REMINDERS FOR INDEPENDENCE DAY, 2003 =93Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.=94 -- Thomas Jefferson "Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem= =20 it necessary to repel an invasion . . . and you allow him to make war at=20 pleasure. . . . If to-day, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary=20 to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you=20 stop him? You may say to him, 'I see no probability of the British invading= =20 us' but he will say to you 'be silent; I see it, if you don't=85.The= Founding=20 Fathers resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold=20 the power of bringing this oppression upon us." -- Representative Abraham Lincoln in a letter to William H. Herndon "That there are men in all countries who get their living by war, and by=20 keeping up the quarrels of nations, is as shocking as it is true; but when= =20 those who are concerned in the government of a country, make it their study= =20 to sow discord, and cultivate prejudices between nations, it becomes the=20 more unpardonable." -- Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", circa 1792 =93In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of= =20 unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the=20 military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of=20 misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of=20 this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should= =20 take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can=20 compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of= =20 defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty=20 may prosper together.=94 -- Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican), January 17, 1961 "I don't want to see a single war millionaire created in the United States= =20 as a result of this world disaster." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt =93The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the= =20 instruments of tyranny at home.=94 -- James Madison =93It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority=94.= --=20 Benjamin Franklin "The President is merely the most important among a large number of public= =20 servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is= =20 warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or=20 inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the=20 Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should=20 be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is= =20 exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he= =20 does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and=20 servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or=20 that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only=20 unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.= =20 Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or anyone else. But it is= =20 even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him=20 than about any one else.=94 -- Theodore Roosevelt (Republican) in the Kansas City Star, May=20 7, 1918 =93He therefore is the truest friend to the liberty of his country who tries= =20 most to promote its virtue, and who, so far as his power and influence=20 extend, will not suffer a man to be chosen into any office of power and=20 trust who is not a wise and virtuous man.=94 -- Samuel Adams =93War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and=20 multiplies instead of indemnifying losses.=94 -- Thomas Jefferson =93Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary= =20 Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.=94 -- Benjamin Franklin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:12:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: FW: READING 7/12 at BIBLIO Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Maggie Golston of BIBLIO bookstore: > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetry Group [mailto:POG@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Maggie > Golston > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:36 AM > To: POG@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: READING 7/12 at BIBLIO > > > I am thrilled to herald the return of long-distance POGger > Deborah Bernhardt > and fellow MFA alum Jeremy Bushnell (and Kat McLellan, for those who know > and love her). > > READING SATURDAY 7/12 at 7pm. > > Jeremy's work can be read at his website: www.imaginaryyear.com. > Deborah's work can probably be chased down in various journals--she's all > that and a bag of chips. > > We are sure to have after-plans, too, TBA at reading. > > Please forward this around to locals--these guys have lots of fans in town > who need the heads up! > > Thanks, > Maggie > > > > > > ........................................................... > +biblio+ > 222 E Congress + Tucson 85701 > 520.624.8222 + www.biblio.us > arts + literature + culture > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:27:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: RE :_Heaney_praises_Eminem Comments: To: Maria Damon In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was trying to be so modest! Here's the URL for the essay: http://www.lapetitezine.org/KazimAli.htm Let me know what you think. --- Maria Damon wrote: > exact reference for your essay please mister kazim? > > At 10:16 AM -0700 7/1/03, Kazim Ali wrote: > >Last year I wrote (and published on-line) an essay > >connecting Yoko Ono and Eminem. I was gratified to > >read an interview with Ono (in the New Yorker no > less) > >in which she says Eminem is one of the only > >contemporary musicians she listens to. > > > >Hm. > ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:01:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 In-Reply-To: <80C1CDD1883C95448C7AF90BCBCD9B1AE9FE96@MSG00CV00.utad.utoledo.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I comparatively teach Spicer's "Billy the Kid" poems, Michael >Ondatjje's "The Collected Works of Billy the Kid" and Sam >Peckinpah's film "Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid." One hell of a trio >with many radiants to pick up on and pursue. JL > > I used to do that, but I added bpNichol's "True Eventual Story of Billy the Kid," and McClure's Billy, plus Pat Garrett's biog. of Billy. -- George Bowering Bromige's younger pal. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:21:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It may sound funny, but I've often wondered what kind of poet Eminem would have been in different circumstances. However you feel about his music and unsavory views, Slim Shady clearly has a powerful verbal gift - a way of spitting out words in patterns that stick to the brain. Who knows what he could write if he had a stronger education to go along with his witty streets smarts. Or maybe Eminem was born to be just what he is: a popular artist who knows the value of controversy and has the talent to back it up. I think Heaney has gotten a whiff of something real, something that can't be created by music executives. Maybe that's worth something. "Everybody only wants to dis-cuss me So this must mean I'm dis-gusting But it's just me I'm just obscene Though I'm not the first king of controversy I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley To do Black Music so selfishly And use it to get myself wealthy "Hey" there's a concept that works 20 million other white rappers emerge But no matter how many fish in the sea It will be so empty without me.." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:51:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: beyond neuropoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "alexander saliby" But, I'm fascinated by the idea of the process having therapeutic applications, and I'd appreciate your posting a small suggested reading list if you wouldn't mind. alex saliby I'd be willing to post info from one list to the other if there were an interest but basically process is therapy or therapy is process so almost any book would be woth reading. By the way, I wasn't referring to specifically interactive poetry as much as all experimental poetry is by it's nature interactive. Interesting idea, though. tom Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:19:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Duncan's LETTERS: Poems 1953-56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from LETTERS XXVII: AN OWL IS AN ONLY BIRD OF POETRY A cross leaves marks the tree we fancy. A crosRegular art rules. A crosUnder hand beauty demands the secret howl to cross the table A croson bloody stumps A croswere wings added later to mar the 17th century flying style. Include a Prayer include lions rise or as sentences raised, include fore gone conclusions in a maze, include my blind in designing your window, include my window in raising your blind, include a long time in my forever yours, include April and July in all your years, include the lions eye that sheds the lambs tears, include the lambs eye or as paragraphs rest, include the bird that belongs to each beast, include: include the breasts and Mary's face, include the horns of the cow in Grace, include the words in pasture are kind, include the scream when he starts to pray, include the sun at the opening of day, include the night in what you find, Small lions are kittens and love to purr. include the fathering Night and Day, include the orders descending thru words, include the elegances of no rhyme, include the roar of a lion in triumph, include break orderly converse to address divine disorders abruptly, include the tree upon which our life hangs, include the metaphor in which from that tree Christ is crucified, include all martyrs in the sense of fun, include chairs and tables as comfortable things, include the bird in the angel with wings . . . Robert Duncan, LETTERS: Poems 1953-56 Flood Editions ISBN 0-9710059-6-6 $16.95 available from Small Press Distribution www.spdbooks.org 1-800-869-7553 or directly from the publisher Flood Editions PO Box 3865 Chicago IL 60654-0865 www.floodeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:20:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: ~ She ~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit She's the center of the universe. And there's a lot of talk about how you follow her ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:18:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would agree that this is odd, but it's bad. If you don't like hip hop that's ok, but it IS what rock 'n roll was to the kids way back when. Eminen is not a poet, but a performer who's pop styles incorporate poetry. I'd say Nelly is a better choice, or even Jay Z. But it may have to do with skin color which is worse than hopping on the hip hop band waggon. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Tills" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:58 PM Subject: Heaney praises Eminem > I may be overreacting and really it's a trivial matter, I suppose, what the > big wigs of world academic poetry cum Industry think of pop pan flashers but > my first reaction to Seamus Heaney's latest is this: > > Oh, Gawd, more cause for puking. Joe Noble Laureate Heaney adopts Eminem > . Play for new readers? What a fuckin > dork? Why is the news so depressing so often? Even I have better taste and > more wherewithal... > > Nobel laureate in praise of Eminem > > "Seamus Heaney, the Nobel laureate, today praised the US rap star Eminem, > saying the artist had 'sent a voltage around his generation.' " > > Which is not to say I have any taste and wherewithal at all (in that I'm > bothering to comment on this, etc), but truly, there are a zillion pop music > and avant-garde musicians that would more properly and appropriately compare > with the Beatles, and the jerk Heaney's praising possesses little more > sensibility than the emperor in office at present. Okay, it's a terribly > minor irritation, like a mosquito, but I still feel like there are just > sky's full of these mosquitos and they're infecting us bite by bite with > cultural malaise worse than any super strain of malaria. Blah blah blah, > there are surely a zillion things more important to obsess about. Just the > same, I think old Heaney's out of touch, so a pop music 15 minuteman gets > his kudos, forgiveable and predictable mistake for an old codger steeped in > straight white verse and safe literary history... > > > Steve Tills > Microcomputer/Software Specialist > MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. > 315-462-4309 > Stills@gwlisk.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:17:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: Re: Spicer Connection-Kevin Killian-1 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Outlaw directed by Howard Hughes w/ Jane Russell (so bad it's good) http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheOutlaw-1015816/reviews.php On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 04:01 PM, George Bowering wrote: >> I comparatively teach Spicer's "Billy the Kid" poems, Michael >> Ondatjje's "The Collected Works of Billy the Kid" and Sam >> Peckinpah's film "Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid." One hell of a trio >> with many radiants to pick up on and pursue. JL >> >> > I used to do that, but I added bpNichol's "True Eventual Story of > Billy the Kid," and McClure's Billy, plus Pat Garrett's biog. of > Billy. > -- > George Bowering > Bromige's younger pal. > Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:07:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: <001c01c34027$0da427f0$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I agree w/ Geoffrey but I also happen to like Eminem and why not poetry? It's definitely the cross-over thing but he's great at invention. For some of us, just like rocknroll, if it doesn't disturb it's not poetry -= Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:28:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit eminem, as a storyteller, ranks quite below, say, what Ice-T was doing on tracks like 'Six in the Morning' or 'The Tower', & what Ice Cube did on most of 'Amerika's Most Wanted', or, for that matter, Slick Rick on 'La di da di'...& the kind of things he talks about aren't anything new if you listened to The Geto Boys or NWA's 'Straight Outta Compton'...as a lyricist he's nowhere near as inventive as Chuck D, Michael Franti, KRS-One, or numerous others... seems to me that the fascination surrounding eminem is precisely his whiteness (just as the 'crisis' surrounding school shootings didn't enter the public consciousness in America until Columbine despite the fact that for decades ghetto schools were frequent sites of such things)...his thug-style (which, I'll give him, he brilliantly appropriated from Tupac (eminem has went so far as to call himself a white 'Pac)), I've thought, has validated the thinking of millions of middle-class, suburban white kids that it's okay for them to act 'ghetto' & wear Fubu gear... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Gatza" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem > I would agree that this is odd, but it's bad. If you don't like hip hop > that's ok, but it IS what rock 'n roll was to the kids way back when. Eminen > is not a poet, but a performer who's pop styles incorporate poetry. I'd say > Nelly is a better choice, or even Jay Z. But it may have to do with skin > color which is worse than hopping on the hip hop band waggon. > > Best, Geoffrey > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:48:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, also, as Elvis was the con of the '50's, Eminem's the con of this decade. This time around a slight twist: as a movie figure, he's now also the James Dean con (with (undoubtedly) about as much duration). Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@msn.com > eminem, as a storyteller, ranks quite below, say, what Ice-T was doing on > tracks like 'Six in the Morning' or 'The Tower', & what Ice Cube did on most > of 'Amerika's Most Wanted', or, for that matter, Slick Rick on 'La di da > di'...& the kind of things he talks about aren't anything new if you > listened to The Geto Boys or NWA's 'Straight Outta Compton'...as a lyricist > he's nowhere near as inventive as Chuck D, Michael Franti, KRS-One, or > numerous others... > > seems to me that the fascination surrounding eminem is precisely his > whiteness (just as the 'crisis' surrounding school shootings didn't enter > the public consciousness in America until Columbine despite the fact that > for decades ghetto schools were frequent sites of such things)...his > thug-style (which, I'll give him, he brilliantly appropriated from Tupac > (eminem has went so far as to call himself a white 'Pac)), I've thought, has > validated the thinking of millions of middle-class, suburban white kids that > it's okay for them to act 'ghetto' & wear Fubu gear... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoffrey Gatza" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem > > > > I would agree that this is odd, but it's bad. If you don't like hip hop > > that's ok, but it IS what rock 'n roll was to the kids way back when. > Eminen > > is not a poet, but a performer who's pop styles incorporate poetry. I'd > say > > Nelly is a better choice, or even Jay Z. But it may have to do with skin > > color which is worse than hopping on the hip hop band waggon. > > > > Best, Geoffrey > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:49:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree completely. And Chuck D changed the way I percieved music and america. White youth will always be thuggish no matter what uniform they adopt. The good aspect of Slim Shady is that he is opening the playing field for new markets of music. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duration Press" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem > eminem, as a storyteller, ranks quite below, say, what Ice-T was doing on > tracks like 'Six in the Morning' or 'The Tower', & what Ice Cube did on most > of 'Amerika's Most Wanted', or, for that matter, Slick Rick on 'La di da > di'...& the kind of things he talks about aren't anything new if you > listened to The Geto Boys or NWA's 'Straight Outta Compton'...as a lyricist > he's nowhere near as inventive as Chuck D, Michael Franti, KRS-One, or > numerous others... > > seems to me that the fascination surrounding eminem is precisely his > whiteness (just as the 'crisis' surrounding school shootings didn't enter > the public consciousness in America until Columbine despite the fact that > for decades ghetto schools were frequent sites of such things)...his > thug-style (which, I'll give him, he brilliantly appropriated from Tupac > (eminem has went so far as to call himself a white 'Pac)), I've thought, has > validated the thinking of millions of middle-class, suburban white kids that > it's okay for them to act 'ghetto' & wear Fubu gear... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoffrey Gatza" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem > > > > I would agree that this is odd, but it's bad. If you don't like hip hop > > that's ok, but it IS what rock 'n roll was to the kids way back when. > Eminen > > is not a poet, but a performer who's pop styles incorporate poetry. I'd > say > > Nelly is a better choice, or even Jay Z. But it may have to do with skin > > color which is worse than hopping on the hip hop band waggon. > > > > Best, Geoffrey > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:15:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: <001101c34033$d34833a0$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think my favorite thing about Eminem is not his own song, but a parody of "Slim Shady" that goes "I'm Greg Brady, I'm the real Greg Brady" -- performed by Barry Williams, the real Greg Brady. I don't know if it's still on his website, www.barrywilliams.com, but it's damn funny and just pokes a huge hole in the Eminem ego-image-monster. Gwyn --- "Nobody gets paid for being a poemer." -- Bucky the cat, "Get Fuzzy," 6/30/03 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:45:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William A Sylvester Subject: Spicer Connection ---Killian 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (After 1, Kevin continued:) To people a little older, Spicer will always be a poet of extreme mystery and fascination because of his struggle with the materiality of language... Kevin Killian Interviewed by Gary Sullivan home.jps.net/~nada/killian.htm - ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:36:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog non-NY Small Press Series 2003-2004 Sked MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks everyone for yr queries and comments on the new series. Here's the now full sked, some of which is tentative. as ever, david _________ Aug. 7 Boog City (New York City) 12th anniversary party Sept. 11 Meritage Press (San Francisco/St. Helena, Calif.) Oct. 2 The Owl Press (Woodacre, Calif.) Nov. 6 Avec Books (Penngrove, Calif.) Dec. 4 CyPress (Cincinnati, Ohio) Jan. 8 above/ground press (Ottawa, Canada) Feb. 5 Chax Press (Tucson, Arizona) March 4 Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio) April 1 Bird Dog magazine (Seattle, Wash.) May 6 Oasis Press (Brunswick, Maine) June 3 Combo (Providence, Rhode Island) July 1 a Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada press, which is too tentative to mention ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:50:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: SOFT SKULL SNEAK PEEK #2 Reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WEDNESDAY, JULY 2 AT 7:00 P.M. SOFT SKULL SNEAK PEEK #2 at the Bowery Poetry Club! 308 Bowery (between Houston & Bleecker), NYC http://www.bowerypoetry.com $5 at the door enters you in a random drawing for Soft Skull goodies! Featuring Soft Skull poets WANDA PHIPPS, T. COLE RACHEL, and JEROME SALA! Plus a performance by JOHNNY KAT! -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:39:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: My Protocol Sentence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE My Protocol Sentence MWPMWP"Gillam,Catherine" "Gillam,Catherine" smarts@infoed.org(SMARTS) ryan.whyte@utoronto.ca>"Michael(Mickey)Posluns,Ph.D." LawrenceUpton Robert evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com "WayneR.Dynes" "LynnE.O'Connor" "LynnE.O'Connor" ClaudiaRuelke "ChrisLofting" "NancyMelucci" SteveReiss "StephanieSilva" "LizaMay" DonaldMcBurney "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford" "WayneR.Dynes" "LynnE.O'Connor" "LynnE.O'Connor" ClaudiaRuelke "ChrisLofting" "NancyMelucci" SteveReiss "StephanieSilva"IanPitchford >"ValGrant" "LizaMay" DonaldMcBurney "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford" "IanPitchford"TailWaggingOffersNews LetterDiscountBedSheets sqc_seminars@yahoo.co.uk"Sung Steward"FlorianCramer LannyQuarles=B9=DA=BC=BA= =C8=C6 TheWeatherCompanyFlorian Cramer"ValeriaRitter" "Trikke""sachikohayashi" "BridgeportLabs" SADUMADIGAZDNetTechUpdateToday "Linwood Levy""furtherfield" "Actualidad"braulinojr@bol.com.br elrey@123.comgrupeiro@uol.com.briica@reuna.cl juanmiguelreyes@hotmail.comlfbelchior@openlink.com.br"furtherfield" CosmicClick=C1=A6=B7=CE=B7= =CE "furtherfield""Sylvester Sears""GalenHaines" SpyWareAdvisoryYoDude ClearCredit =C6=E4=B7=CE=B8=F3=C7=E2=BC=F6"TravelRewards" kariedwards"New-Offers" "PASCALGUEI" LuckyDealsHarryNudel "Katy" Amer.Trav.Assoc.toxac2@yahoo.com.cn "PASCALGUEI"LannyQuarles "AmericanLifeDirect" AllHomeowners Homeowner?PoorCredit?NO Problem!PaydayLoans AHAMariaDamon"CoraRamey" "PremiereSpecials" Kristis.Ebay LanguageDr. ContactRepresentativejonlebkowsky FlorianCramer"" 404<404@jodi.org>pascalegustin autumn-frequency KamenNedevautumn-fre quencypascalegustin godAnaBuigues "" 404<404@jodi.org> pascalegustin autumn-frequency KamenNedev autumn-frequency pascalegustin god AnaBuiguesMichaelRothenberg GovernmentMoney "owidnazo" RobinLarsen"Margarita CarreteroGonz=3DE1lez">MargaritaCarreteroGonz=3DE1lez "Lipman,JoelA."LouisArmand derekbeaulieu"Lipman, JoelA.">MariaDamon [mailto:damon001@UMN.EDU]"ExtendedWarranty" "RobertSeviour" alexandersaliby tombell=3D20DaveAaronVidaver USAGreetings.com"RealEstateMillions" "Paul Lopez"gozebokay@earthling.netX-Envelope- abroeck@transmediale.deAndreasBroeckmann DavidsonGigliottiNWCOnline ActivationRequest "malleur"Fun Detective"owidnazo" air-l-request@aoir.orgPhilGraham "SocioAdmin" "ChristianSandvig""geertlovink"> "geertlovink"DaveMunger "RobertKrimmer[e-Voting.at]""TKennedy" radhikagajjala BarryWellman KarlM.vanMeterBarryWellman KarlM.vanMeterCharles EssSteveJonesGinaNeff CharlesEss[SMTP:cmess@lib.drury.edu]CharlesEss >GinaNeffJoanKorenman AldonHynes"Jennifer Stromer-Galley">air-l-admin@aoir.org [mailto:air-l-admin@aoir.org]OnCoffeeLovers ExtremeTechWeekly new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu HelenRuggieriJackTar@aol.comStamps "CarlosAnderson""L-Softlist serveratAmericaOnline,Inc.(1.8e)" "Stamps.com""Exclusive-Deals" timothy.koffi@caramail.com"Jupiter Events"kariedwards scannerSteveTillsCronica owner-issho@ml.gol.com (issho)ISSHOKikaku"Albion" "ThelmaWhitney""BargainsCentral" KazimAliPhilip Nikolayevbio252"Lipman,Joel A.""bescotime"derek beaulieu"Lipman,JoelA." >derekbeaulieu[mailto:derek@HOUSEPRESS.CA] >"Lipman,JoelA.">>MariaDamon [mailto:damon001@UMN.EDU]ToyFactoryWiejaJohn =B1=E6=B9=DA=BB=E721JohanMe= skens CS2jmcs2"SophieRedmond" =B8=C5=BF=EC=BE=DF=C7=D1=BC=D2=B8=AE"HomeRefinance" "Auriea.""princegeorge duke""MarlaFrost""-=3D-=3D-[]-=3D-=3D-" ArtPressAgencyGreg StevensJohanMeskensCS2jmcs2 JohanMeskensCS2jmcs2 "NeilKlein" <74022k092gs@263.net.cn>"e-Flux""AdobeSystems Incorporated"webartery@yahoogroups.com=C1=D6=B3=EB=BF= =FE=B5=F9 "LuisaEstrada"DerekR GeorgeBoweringFlorian CramerFence/FenceBooks "GilbertGamal"MariaDamon SecurityUpdateCasey Kingsley"Paradisimo" "LinuxBusinessWeek" Floodeditions@AOL.COM"ArnoldLyles"=B7=D4=B5=A5@panix.com testComputerAssociates "SharleneRead""Gen Art"SteveTills SugarKillerSalRandolph AutoStakesSystem "KeywordPropertyCenter" StephenVincent GabrielGuddingSurveyCompensation "billmarsh"Lewis LaCook[mailto:llacook@yahoo.com]TenneyNathanson >PoetryGroup [mailto:POG@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]OnBehalfOfMaggie"JoelWeishaus" "owidnazo"Create YourWill =3D?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOiNGfCROGyhCbWVsbWEh?=3DMarthaLDeed KazimAli"prima53@bellsouth.net" LADAWASESESEKO GotInk CameraTips"Trikke" SWoodsideGeorge Bowering"BridgeportLabs" HeretoHelp"Tammie Shannon"<0bhgi5ju@aeiclaimslaw.com>"Developer.comUpdate1" AndyWilliamson&Ruth DeSouza"CyberAtlas" Need aJob"DariusGrant" BrennenLukas"Patrick Herron"HarrisonJeff [mailto:worksonpaper01@hotmail.com]FrancisHwangt byfieldEricKluitenberg"kara quarles""JohanMeskensCS2jmcs2" "BusinessServices" karaquarlesWhiteCube=3D20 ImpeachBush@VoteToImpeach.org [mailto:ImpeachBush@VoteToImpeach.org]size=3D3D2>-----Original Message-----
=3D"SMACEntertainment" karaquarlesMichaelArnoldMages testFemaleForum "New-Offers"tombell "alexandersaliby""ThereseLogan" FinancialAdvisor"Learn Crafts"LearnCrafts-->Newcrafts projectsandaFREEtote"Jamie" Floodeditions@AOL.COMDerekR"RubenStevens" PayDayLoans"Gavin Spangler""RICHARDCLARK" "PremiereSpecials" "NARALPro-ChoiceAmerica" =B7=F9=BF=B5=BC=B1<094u@094u.com>"SybilSwartz" "JustinJewell" Nyartsmaga@aol.comkaraquarles"GradyN.Prater" Cookies"e-Flux" "ExtendedWarranty"miekal andGeoffreyGatza"SteveTills" DVExpo"LouellaBunch" CustomerSupport AlanSondheim"George(s)Lessard" SandyMcMurraygprice@cesmail.nettpopyk What'sNewNowfromZiffDavis JohnF. Judy ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:43:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Ken Smith In-Reply-To: <004201c34030$d1a5ae90$492bfea9@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's Sean O'Brien's obit from today's _The Independent_ for English=20 poet Ken Smith. I fondly remember a goodly number of evenings with Ken=20= around the table in my place on Deal Road, Tooting, South London, & at=20= the local pub, downing pints of bitter. The talk was always about the=20 trouble people were in (this was Thatcher's England) and about poetry=20 (this was Ken's life). -- Pierre Ken Smith Poet of ambition and real feeling 02 July 2003 Kenneth John Smith, poet: born Rudston, Yorkshire 4 December 1938;=20 Co-Editor, Stand 1963-69; married 1960 Annie Minnis (one son, two=20 daughters; marriage dissolved), 1981 Judi Benson (one stepson); died=20 London 27 June 2003. Ken Smith brought an original and memorable voice to poetry in=20 Britain. He spent his writing life not so much swimming against the=20 stream as ignoring the stream's existence. Now he leaves a large and=20 richly varied body of work, some of which will surely outlast that of=20 more fashionable names. Smith was a poet's poet, not because he=20 attracted a cult of obscurity or led a coterie of impersonators, but=20 because of the integrity and craftsmanship he brought to writing the=20 poems his imagination demanded. Born in East Yorkshire in 1938, the son of an itinerant Irish=20 farmworker, Smith was educated in Hull and Knaresborough, did National=20= Service in the RAF and then read English at Leeds University. Among the=20= other writers associated with the English Department around the time he=20= was there, 1960-63, were Tony Harrison, Geoffrey Hill, Wole Soyinka and=20= James Simmons. Leeds was also associated with Jon Silkin's famous=20 magazine Stand, and Smith was one of many writers to pass through the=20 editorial team. His first collection of poems, The Pity, was published in 1967. At=20 first the book may have seemed in key with the popular nature poetry of=20= the period, whose most famous exponent was Ted Hughes, but Smith's work=20= has a melancholy concern with social themes which sets it apart, just=20 as the characters in his poems - who include his father - were=20 themselves set apart, gesturing towards a lost society which, Smith=20 wrote, "left / not a mark, not a footprint". Despite this impressive d=E9but, Smith found no permanent home among=20 mainstream publishers. For a decade he put work out through a series of=20= almost gleefully obscure imprints, supporting himself with teaching,=20 first in school and later as a university writer in residence in=20 Britain and the United States. Smith was one of the first in Britain to=20= map the route of the contemporary journeyman poet - a rather more=20 uncertain existence in the 1960s and 1970s than it is nowadays. Perpetual wandering becomes the underlying theme of his work, which is=20= frequently written from beyond or below the pale of ordinary social=20 norms and reveals a marked antipathy to what Smith called the "Rupert=20 Bear" school of English establishment poetry. He was drawn instead to=20 American poets such as James Wright and W.S. Merwin. When in the late 1970s the publisher Neil Astley began to establish=20 Bloodaxe Books, he provided Smith with the combination of security and=20= liberty his work required. When Bloodaxe published The Poet Reclining:=20= selected poems 1962-1980 (1982), Smith, in mid-career, found a new=20 readership - often young enthusiasts who were to feed the growing=20 interest in poetry through the 1980s by reviving the live poetry=20 reading, an arena in which Smith at times excelled. Smith could wield a strange, laconic desperation, as at the opening of=20= "To Survive": "Each day the last, / each a survivor. A shaft / other=20 days fall into". His work also steered away from the visual imagery=20 prevalent in both English and American poetry. Instead he concentrated=20= on voice and implied narrative. These qualities are exemplified by two=20= very different works published in the early 1980s. Burned Books (1981)=20= is a fragmentary, fire-damaged history of a political dictatorship=20 drawn from the library of the vanished President Perdu. Fox Running=20 (1980), a headlong account of breakdown, applies a desperate energy to=20= an endless journey back and forth across London between DHSS offices=20 and grim bedsits. This book helped to create the possibility of the=20 distinctive urban poetry of the 1980s and many younger writers are,=20 perhaps half unwittingly, in Smith's debt. (Living in East Ham, Smith=20 was well placed to observe the Thatcher years.) Terra (1986) is a work of remarkable ambition. It contains the "London=20= Sonnets", surveillance reports on a city where, as in Henry Mayhew's=20 time, "the poor are pushing to the windows like the fog", while "slow=20 workless docklands" are "going cheap", where drugs and racism are=20 widespread and the nuclear threat can be heard in the telephonic white=20= noise of the secret state. Alongside this stands "Hawkwood", the=20 journal of an English mercenary in 14th-century Italy. Smith was also a=20= fine comic poet, as the wild improvisation of "Departure's Speech"=20 indicates. Given Smith's sympathy with losers and misfits, it was appropriate that=20= he was one of the first writers to work in prison, at Wormwood Scrubs.=20= Wormwood (1987) is an eloquent, harrowing and quite unsentimental book=20= of songs by and about the damned. On the prison wings there are those,=20= Smith writes, "whose eyes I don't meet", but in "Cain's Song" he shares=20= the common longing for another world that "lives in another song in a=20 tune / I can't recall, another tale / told at the road's turn where=20 wind / moves among beeches. I know. / I was there. The wind told me." The residency and the accompanying prose book, Inside Time (1989, with=20= Dave Wait), resulted in a television appearance on Wogan, but Smith=20 preferred to be on the move. A number of visits to Berlin in the late=20 1980s produced a further prose work, Berlin: coming in from the cold=20 (1990), while the opening up of the Iron Curtain is reflected in many=20 poems from The Heart, the Border (1990) and Tender to the Queen of=20 Spain (1993), where he combines lyricism with widely travelled=20 investigations of politics, history and place. The culmination of this phase was Wild Root (1998), which juxtaposes=20 old and more modern notions of Europe and its torments. The superb "The=20= Shadow of God" recreates the terror provoked by the name of Suleiman=20 the Magnificent, while "Part of the Crowd that Day" is a pessimistic=20 assessment of the moral potential of those who find themselves in the=20 audience of history: They gawp at the hungry, they gawp at the dead. In the end they are not spared. In their turn everything happens to them. Of any half dozen one has a secret vice, one an incurable disease, one a deep faith in God and the rest don't care =A0 one way or the other. But they see it all happen. In 2002, Shed: poems, 1980-2001 was published. Ken Smith's originality was a matter of omission as well as inclusion.=20= He read and wrote against the grain of contemporary taste, often=20 preferring a bare eloquence to a crowded stanza. Yet he also loved=20 details, such as the proper names of people, cities and flowers, as=20 well as the poignancy and absurdity of overheard remarks. His poetry stays close to songs and ballads, and while his way into a=20 poem is often oblique, and some of his work quite naturally resists=20 interpretation, the result never lacks the animating charge of real=20 feeling - sympathy, love, loss, delight, longing, political fury. He=20 was one of those by whom the language lives. Sean O'Brien ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:36:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Re: My Protocol Sentence In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! I made it into an Alan Sondheim piece! Now I can face the prospect =20= of random death without fear of worthlessness! On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 01:39 AM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > My Protocol Sentence > > > MWPMWP"Gillam,Catherine" > "Gillam,Catherine" > smarts@infoed.org(SMARTS) > ryan.whyte@utoronto.ca>"Michael(Mickey)Posluns,Ph.D." > LawrenceUpton > Robert > evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com = "WayneR.Dynes" > "LynnE.O'Connor" "LynnE.O'Connor" > ClaudiaRuelke = "ChrisLofting" > "NancyMelucci" SteveReiss > "StephanieSilva" "LizaMay" > DonaldMcBurney > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford" > "WayneR.Dynes" "LynnE.O'Connor" > "LynnE.O'Connor" ClaudiaRuelke > "ChrisLofting" = "NancyMelucci" > SteveReiss > "StephanieSilva"IanPitchford > >"ValGrant" > "LizaMay" DonaldMcBurney > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford" > "IanPitchford"TailWaggingOffersNews > LetterDiscountBedSheets > sqc_seminars@yahoo.co.uk"Sung > Steward"FlorianCramer > LannyQuarles=B9=DA=BC=BA= =C8=C6 > TheWeatherCompanyFlorian > Cramer"ValeriaRitter" > "Trikke""sachikohayashi" > "BridgeportLabs" > SADUMADIGAZDNetTechUpdateToday > = "Linwood > Levy""furtherfield" > "Actualidad"braulinojr@bol.com.br > elrey@123.comgrupeiro@uol.com.briica@reuna.cl > juanmiguelreyes@hotmail.comlfbelchior@openlink.com.br"furtherfield" > CosmicClick=C1=A6=B7=CE=B7= =CE > "furtherfield""Sylvester > Sears""GalenHaines" > SpyWareAdvisoryYoDude > ClearCredit > =C6=E4=B7=CE=B8=F3=C7=E2=BC=F6"TravelRewards" > kariedwards"New-Offers" > "PASCALGUEI" > LuckyDealsHarryNudel > "Katy" > = Amer.Trav.Assoc.toxac2@yahoo.com.c=20= > n > "PASCALGUEI"LannyQuarles > "AmericanLifeDirect" > AllHomeowners > Homeowner?PoorCredit?NO > Problem!PaydayLoans > AHAMariaDamon"CoraRamey" > "PremiereSpecials" > Kristis.Ebay > LanguageDr. > ContactRepresentativejonlebkowsky > FlorianCramer"" > 404<404@jodi.org>pascalegustin > autumn-frequency > KamenNedevautumn-fre > quencypascalegustin > godAnaBuigues > "" 404<404@jodi.org> > pascalegustin =20 > autumn-frequency > KamenNedev autumn-frequency > pascalegustin > god = AnaBuiguesMichaelRothenberg > GovernmentMoney > "owidnazo" > RobinLarsen"Margarita > CarreteroGonz=3DE1lez">MargaritaCarreteroGonz=3DE1lez > "Lipman,JoelA."LouisArmand > derekbeaulieu"Lipman, > JoelA.">MariaDamon > [mailto:damon001@UMN.EDU]"ExtendedWarranty" > "RobertSeviour" > alexandersaliby > tombell=3D20DaveAaronVidaver > USAGreetings.com"RealEstateMillions" > "Paul > Lopez"gozebokay@earthling.netX-Envelope- > abroeck@transmediale.deAndreasBroeckmann > DavidsonGigliottiNWCOnline > ActivationRequest > = "malleur"Fun > Detective"owidnazo" > air-l-request@aoir.orgPhilGraham > "SocioAdmin" > "ChristianSandvig""geertlovink"> > "geertlovink"DaveMunger > "RobertKrimmer[e-Voting.at]""TKennedy" > radhikagajjala > BarryWellman > KarlM.vanMeterBarryWellman > KarlM.vanMeterCharles > EssSteveJonesGinaNeff > CharlesEss[SMTP:cmess@lib.drury.edu]CharlesEss > >GinaNeffJoanKorenman > AldonHynes"Jennifer > Stromer-Galley">air-l-admin@aoir.org > [mailto:air-l-admin@aoir.org]OnCoffeeLovers > ExtremeTechWeekly > = new-poetry-request@wiz.cath.vt.edu > HelenRuggieriJackTar@aol.comStamps > "CarlosAnderson""L-Softlist > serveratAmericaOnline,Inc.(1.8e)" > "Stamps.com""Exclusive-Deals" > timothy.koffi@caramail.com"Jupiter > Events"kariedwards > scannerSteveTillsCronica > owner-=20 > issho@ml.gol.com > (issho)ISSHOKikaku"Albion" > "ThelmaWhitney""BargainsCentral" > KazimAliPhilip > Nikolayevbio252"Lipman,Joel > A.""bescotime"derek > beaulieu"Lipman,JoelA." > >derekbeaulieu[mailto:derek@HOUSEPRESS.CA] >> "Lipman,JoelA.">>MariaDamon > [mailto:damon001@UMN.EDU]ToyFactoryWiejaJohn > =B1=E6=B9=DA=BB=E721Joha= nMeskens > CS2jmcs2"SophieRedmond" > =B8=C5=BF=EC=BE=DF=C7=D1=BC=D2=B8=AE"HomeRefinance" > "Auriea.""princegeorge > duke""MarlaFrost""-=3D-=3D-[]-=3D-=3D= -" > ArtPressAgencyGreg > StevensJohanMeskensCS2jmcs2 > JohanMeskensCS2jmcs2 > "NeilKlein" > <74022k092gs@263.net.cn>"e-Flux""AdobeSystems > Incorporated"webartery@yahoogroups.com=C1=D6=B3=EB= =BF=FE=B5=F9 > "LuisaEstrada"DerekR > GeorgeBoweringFlorian > CramerFence/FenceBooks > "GilbertGamal"MariaDamon > SecurityUpdateCasey > Kingsley"Paradisimo" > "LinuxBusinessWeek" > Floodeditions@AOL.COM"ArnoldLyles"=B7=D4=B5=A5@panix.= com > testComputerAssociates > "SharleneRead""Gen > Art"SteveTills > SugarKillerSalRandolph > AutoStakesSystem > "KeywordPropertyCenter" > StephenVincent > GabrielGuddingSurveyCompensation > "billmarsh"Lewis > LaCook[mailto:llacook@yahoo.com]TenneyNathanson > >PoetryGroup > [mailto:POG@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]OnBehalfOfMaggie"JoelWeishaus" > "owidnazo"Create > YourWill > =3D?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOiNGfCROGyhCbWVsbWEh?=3DMarthaLDe= ed > KazimAli"prima53@bellsouth.net" > LADAWASESESEKO > GotInk > CameraTips"Trikke" > SWoodsideGeorge > Bowering"BridgeportLabs" > HeretoHelp"Tammie > Shannon"<0bhgi5ju@aeiclaimslaw.com>"Developer.comUpdate1" > AndyWilliamson&Ruth > DeSouza"CyberAtlas" > 540b4dd50a@nl.internet.com>Need > aJob"DariusGrant" > BrennenLukas"Patrick > Herron"HarrisonJeff > [mailto:worksonpaper01@hotmail.com]FrancisHwangt > byfieldEricKluitenberg"kara > quarles""JohanMeskensCS2jmcs2" > "BusinessServices" > karaquarlesWhiteCube=3D20 > "PatrickHerron"ImpeachBush@VoteToImpeach.org > [mailto:ImpeachBush@VoteToImpeach.org]size=3D3D2>-----Original > Message-----
=3D"SMACEntertainment" > > karaquarlesMichaelArnoldMages > testFemaleForum > "New-Offers"tombell > "alexandersaliby""ThereseLogan" > FinancialAdvisor"Learn > Crafts"LearnCrafts-->Newcrafts > projectsandaFREEtote"Jamie" > Floodeditions@AOL.COMDerekR"RubenStevens" > PayDayLoans"Gavin > Spangler""RICHARDCLARK" > "PremiereSpecials" > "NARALPro-ChoiceAmerica" > =B7=F9=BF=B5=BC=B1<094u@094u.com>"SybilSwartz"= > "JustinJewell" > Nyartsmaga@aol.comkaraquarles"GradyN.Prater" > Cookies"e-Flux" > "ExtendedWarranty"miekal > andGeoffreyGatza"SteveTills" > DVExpo"LouellaBunch" > CustomerSupport > AlanSondheim"George(s)Lessard" > SandyMcMurraygprice@cesmail.nettpopyk > What'sNewNowfromZiffDavis > JohnF. > Judy > > > ___ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:54:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." Subject: Re: Ken Smith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On several occasions from the 1970's to the 1990's Ken read memorably in = Toledo under Toledo Poets Center sponsorship. His visits and readings in = the '70's with fellow Brit poet Brian Patton were first rate literary = events and social moments of pleasure, warmth and grand conversation. = Ken's books are distinctive, quite unlike those of his peers, = characterized by his sureness of language, political intelligence and = human engagement. JL -----Original Message----- From: Pierre Joris [mailto:joris@ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wed 7/2/2003 6:43 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Cc:=09 Subject: Ken Smith Here's Sean O'Brien's obit from today's _The Independent_ for English=20 poet Ken Smith. I fondly remember a goodly number of evenings with Ken=20 around the table in my place on Deal Road, Tooting, South London, & at=20 the local pub, downing pints of bitter. The talk was always about the=20 trouble people were in (this was Thatcher's England) and about poetry=20 (this was Ken's life). -- Pierre Ken Smith Poet of ambition and real feeling 02 July 2003 Kenneth John Smith, poet: born Rudston, Yorkshire 4 December 1938;=20 Co-Editor, Stand 1963-69; married 1960 Annie Minnis (one son, two=20 daughters; marriage dissolved), 1981 Judi Benson (one stepson); died=20 London 27 June 2003. Ken Smith brought an original and memorable voice to poetry in=20 Britain. He spent his writing life not so much swimming against the=20 stream as ignoring the stream's existence. Now he leaves a large and=20 richly varied body of work, some of which will surely outlast that of=20 more fashionable names. Smith was a poet's poet, not because he=20 attracted a cult of obscurity or led a coterie of impersonators, but=20 because of the integrity and craftsmanship he brought to writing the=20 poems his imagination demanded. Born in East Yorkshire in 1938, the son of an itinerant Irish=20 farmworker, Smith was educated in Hull and Knaresborough, did National=20 Service in the RAF and then read English at Leeds University. Among the=20 other writers associated with the English Department around the time he=20 was there, 1960-63, were Tony Harrison, Geoffrey Hill, Wole Soyinka and=20 James Simmons. Leeds was also associated with Jon Silkin's famous=20 magazine Stand, and Smith was one of many writers to pass through the=20 editorial team. His first collection of poems, The Pity, was published in 1967. At=20 first the book may have seemed in key with the popular nature poetry of=20 the period, whose most famous exponent was Ted Hughes, but Smith's work=20 has a melancholy concern with social themes which sets it apart, just=20 as the characters in his poems - who include his father - were=20 themselves set apart, gesturing towards a lost society which, Smith=20 wrote, "left / not a mark, not a footprint". Despite this impressive d=E9but, Smith found no permanent home among=20 mainstream publishers. For a decade he put work out through a series of=20 almost gleefully obscure imprints, supporting himself with teaching,=20 first in school and later as a university writer in residence in=20 Britain and the United States. Smith was one of the first in Britain to=20 map the route of the contemporary journeyman poet - a rather more=20 uncertain existence in the 1960s and 1970s than it is nowadays. Perpetual wandering becomes the underlying theme of his work, which is=20 frequently written from beyond or below the pale of ordinary social=20 norms and reveals a marked antipathy to what Smith called the "Rupert=20 Bear" school of English establishment poetry. He was drawn instead to=20 American poets such as James Wright and W.S. Merwin. When in the late 1970s the publisher Neil Astley began to establish=20 Bloodaxe Books, he provided Smith with the combination of security and=20 liberty his work required. When Bloodaxe published The Poet Reclining:=20 selected poems 1962-1980 (1982), Smith, in mid-career, found a new=20 readership - often young enthusiasts who were to feed the growing=20 interest in poetry through the 1980s by reviving the live poetry=20 reading, an arena in which Smith at times excelled. Smith could wield a strange, laconic desperation, as at the opening of=20 "To Survive": "Each day the last, / each a survivor. A shaft / other=20 days fall into". His work also steered away from the visual imagery=20 prevalent in both English and American poetry. Instead he concentrated=20 on voice and implied narrative. These qualities are exemplified by two=20 very different works published in the early 1980s. Burned Books (1981)=20 is a fragmentary, fire-damaged history of a political dictatorship=20 drawn from the library of the vanished President Perdu. Fox Running=20 (1980), a headlong account of breakdown, applies a desperate energy to=20 an endless journey back and forth across London between DHSS offices=20 and grim bedsits. This book helped to create the possibility of the=20 distinctive urban poetry of the 1980s and many younger writers are,=20 perhaps half unwittingly, in Smith's debt. (Living in East Ham, Smith=20 was well placed to observe the Thatcher years.) Terra (1986) is a work of remarkable ambition. It contains the "London=20 Sonnets", surveillance reports on a city where, as in Henry Mayhew's=20 time, "the poor are pushing to the windows like the fog", while "slow=20 workless docklands" are "going cheap", where drugs and racism are=20 widespread and the nuclear threat can be heard in the telephonic white=20 noise of the secret state. Alongside this stands "Hawkwood", the=20 journal of an English mercenary in 14th-century Italy. Smith was also a=20 fine comic poet, as the wild improvisation of "Departure's Speech"=20 indicates. Given Smith's sympathy with losers and misfits, it was appropriate that=20 he was one of the first writers to work in prison, at Wormwood Scrubs.=20 Wormwood (1987) is an eloquent, harrowing and quite unsentimental book=20 of songs by and about the damned. On the prison wings there are those,=20 Smith writes, "whose eyes I don't meet", but in "Cain's Song" he shares=20 the common longing for another world that "lives in another song in a=20 tune / I can't recall, another tale / told at the road's turn where=20 wind / moves among beeches. I know. / I was there. The wind told me." The residency and the accompanying prose book, Inside Time (1989, with=20 Dave Wait), resulted in a television appearance on Wogan, but Smith=20 preferred to be on the move. A number of visits to Berlin in the late=20 1980s produced a further prose work, Berlin: coming in from the cold=20 (1990), while the opening up of the Iron Curtain is reflected in many=20 poems from The Heart, the Border (1990) and Tender to the Queen of=20 Spain (1993), where he combines lyricism with widely travelled=20 investigations of politics, history and place. The culmination of this phase was Wild Root (1998), which juxtaposes=20 old and more modern notions of Europe and its torments. The superb "The=20 Shadow of God" recreates the terror provoked by the name of Suleiman=20 the Magnificent, while "Part of the Crowd that Day" is a pessimistic=20 assessment of the moral potential of those who find themselves in the=20 audience of history: They gawp at the hungry, they gawp at the dead. In the end they are not spared. In their turn everything happens to them. Of any half dozen one has a secret vice, one an incurable disease, one a deep faith in God and the rest don't care =20 one way or the other. But they see it all happen. In 2002, Shed: poems, 1980-2001 was published. Ken Smith's originality was a matter of omission as well as inclusion.=20 He read and wrote against the grain of contemporary taste, often=20 preferring a bare eloquence to a crowded stanza. Yet he also loved=20 details, such as the proper names of people, cities and flowers, as=20 well as the poignancy and absurdity of overheard remarks. His poetry stays close to songs and ballads, and while his way into a=20 poem is often oblique, and some of his work quite naturally resists=20 interpretation, the result never lacks the animating charge of real=20 feeling - sympathy, love, loss, delight, longing, political fury. He=20 was one of those by whom the language lives. Sean O'Brien ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:56:17 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: This Sunday: The All-U-Can-Eunoia Extravaganza and Eatery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT It's summertime, and the livin' is easy, but it sure isn't dull. Forthwith, a bonanza of bookish events to help you while away those hazy July evenings. Eunoia: All of it This coming Sunday, July 6, at Bar Italia, Coach House Books, in conjunction with the Scream in High Park, will be presenting Christian Bök reading the entirety (that's 112 pages in about 75 minutes) of his bestselling, Griffin Prize-winning masterpiece Eunoia. Coach House's new audio CD of Christian reading the whole book will be available for sale. But how much fun can a univocalic book be to hear if you don't have univocalic snacks to match? Yes, that's right -- food with only one fifth of the vowels, but five times the flavour! The superlative chefs at Bar Italia have concocted a five-course dinner that sings along with Eunoia, and you can be a part of it! Both meat (fresh tender beef) and veggie (three-cheese-blend penne) meals are available. Tickets are only $20 (not including alcohol or gratuities). If you're keen, drop us an email at jason@chbooks.com or give us a call at 416 979 2217 for more info or to reserve one of these limited-edition dinners. Admission to the reading itself is free, so please come even if you don't want dinner. Oh, but that's not all. Here's a selection of literary soirees in July: Jill and derek hit the road! Jill Hartman (A Painted Elephant) and derek beaulieu (with wax), fresh from launching their new poetry books in Calgary, are venturing out into the world beyond: Winnipeg: July 10, Grant Park McNally Robinson, 8:00 pm Toronto: July 17 - details TBA Ottawa: July 18, Gallery 101, 7:30 pm Montreal: July 20, Blizzarts, 7:00 pm I Scream, you Scream, we all Scream for the Scream! It's that time of the year again, and this year's Scream in High Park has exploded into a full festival. Check out the following events: July 6: Eunoia: All of it (see above) July 7: ReLit winner Margaret Christakos reads at the Toronto Women's Bookstore along with fellow Scream alumnus Camilla Gibb, Robert Priest, and others. 7:00 pm July 13: Eye Scream. Poet Stephen Cain hosts a night of visual poetry (starring Steve McCaffery) at the Virus Arts Gallery and Objectorium. 7:00 pm. July 14: The Scream itself! The largest single-night reading extravaganza in Canada. Featuring Coach Housers Lise Downe and Jay Millar, and hosted by Margaret Christakos. Dream Stage Amphitheatre, High Park. 7:00 pm And for you theatre buffs out there, check out Sean Dixon's existential western play, Billy Nothin', as performed by Victoria's Theatre SKAM. Performed under the elements at the Honest Ed Alley, as a Bring Your Own Venue at The Fringe: Toronto’s Theatre Festival, July 2–13, 2003. Tickets available at www.fringetoronto.com And, finally, if you still haven't had enough literary fun, please join us on July 17 at our summer blow-out. We'll be launching four -- count 'em, four! -- new Coach House Books. Details to follow soon... For more information on these or any other related Coach House events, please check out our web site or contact Jason at 416.979.2217 or jason@chbooks.com ____________________________________________________________ If you received this mailing in error, or wish to remove yourself from this list, go to: http://www.chbooks.com/tech/email.cgi?act=rm&em=khehir@cs.mun.ca ____________________________________________________________ Do NOT reply to this automated message - it will not be received by a human being, or a machine that cares. ____________________________________________________________ Coach House Books - http://www.chbooks.com/ online and offset poetry, fiction & artist's books 401 Huron St (rear) on bpNichol Lane Toronto, Ontario M5S 2G5 416.979.2217 or outside Toronto 1.800.367.6360 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:46:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Renee Ashley Subject: Re: This Sunday: The All-U-Can-Eunoia Extravaganza and Eatery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, Is the tape of Eunoia available elsewhere for those of us who can't be there? Renee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:49:43 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: How to win friends & influence people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/stripped-iraqis.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:11:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII But the problem with Eminem is that he only aims to disturb, and the way he aims to disturb is, frankly, not that much different from the disturbances of reality TV shows, such as Survivor or Fear Factor, etc. Being gyno-and homophobic, being frank about violence, being arrogant about success, these all come down to desires that exist just under the skin. Eminem is disturbing, but he is disturbing in the way we expect someone to be. If he is an artist, he is an artist of tabloid fodder... something along the lines of Bret Easton Ellis, who also poses as much he disturbs. Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I agree w/ Geoffrey but I also happen to like Eminem and why not poetry? > It's definitely the cross-over thing but he's great at invention. > > For some of us, just like rocknroll, if it doesn't disturb it's not poetry > -= > > Alan > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:45:45 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: This Sunday: The All-U-Can-Eunoia and Relit redux Comments: To: Renee Ashley In-Reply-To: <000501c340c1$eddf3540$789d598a@reneea> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi, the cd will be available at the reading/eating. I'm sure Coach House would love to sell you one. Go to http://chbooks.com they are very friendly. a few weeks ago Scott Pound mentioned the Coach House. I too made a pilgrimage there a few summers ago. the last time i passed through toronto. i got there pretty laste in the day and was only given a quick tour as my tour guide was already on her bike heading for the post office with a basket full of goodies. she ( i can't remember her name) gave me a quick show-around and let me buy (at a good rate) Kenny G's Fidget. A book that i would never have a chance of coming across where i live. for a poet who has been influenced by the coach house project (in all of its manifestations) it was quite a treat for me. this leads me to think about the afore mentioned RE-Lit awards. It is odd that all of the poetry nominees were Coach House Books. I'll bet that the copies of those books that were sent to the local judge (Carmelita McGrath who lives down my street and has a new kid's book out called the Boston Box - it's beautiful) are the only copies on the island (except for seven seconds missing VII by Caff McStevery which I'm reviewing for Canadian Literature - but then i had to order volume one and wait four weeks just to get up to speed). so what i'm saying is that we may live on the edge of the continent but we're hardly the leading edge of poetry. anyway, all the best, kevin -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: change of address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Friends, Fellow Travelers in the Poetry Worlds, & Disinterested Parties-- This is just to say that as of July 11th, 2003 my new address will be 3035 O'Neal Parkway #V-14 Boulder, CO 80301 The phone number & e-mail addresses will remain the same. All Best, Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:27:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: How to win friends & influence people In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 7/2/03 9:49 AM, Ron at ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET wrote: > http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/stripped-iraqis.htm Thanks, Ron. This is awful. Let alone the damage to Iraqi life, I don't even want to begin to imagine the kind of psychological damage that is being done to U.S soldier Occupiers and what this country will domestically reap in the way of mental illness and violence when these men and women ever come home. With the fiscal deficit and tax cuts the services will be minimal etc. etc. More walking casualties on the streets. "IVS" - Iraq Vets. Yesterday, after noting that 725 occupiers had been wounded, and 225 variously killed since the President declared the formal end of fighting - the New York Times web edition dropped these facts from a later version of the same article. Hmmm... Indeed we are being led by crazy people - but I guess that's becoming more and more obvious. Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:27:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: RHZOMES 6: CODEWORK / SURVEILLANCE (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII RHIZHOMES: CULTURAL STUDIES IN EMERGING KNOWLEDGE www.rhizomes.net Issue 6: Codework/Surveillance guest-edited by Louis Armand, with contributions by McKenzie Wark, Alan Sondheim, Zoe Beloff, Darren Tofts, Ondrej Galuska, MTC Cronin, Alan Roughley, Philip Hammial, David Seiter, Tom Mackey, Damien Judge Rollison. "Codework/Surveillance" attempts to work the seam between critical paradigmatics & social discourse, between codework as invention, aesthetic practice, activism, sabotage & its recuperation within and by institutions of knowledge & techno-social surveillance (& vice-versa). "Codework/Surveillance" attempts to go beyond the usual pseudo-antagonism of theory/praxis by investigating how the contest over such terms (and other terms which are supposedly defined by them) is itself a mirage effect of the oppositional assumptions of institution vs. anti-institutional practition. "Codework/Surveillance" designates a relation of terms & of social postulates which are & remain biomorphic, parac(r)itical and dialectically irreducible. As "criticism" is placed under increasing pressure to account for itself in terms of action within the social/technological sphere, the artist & "public intellectual" may be regarded more in terms of "codework" than of traditional critical or aesthetic practices--in the sense that "codework" implies not only a working with the language and means of contemporary technological conditions (& of "taking responsibility" or "coming to terms" with these), but also a tactical counter-coding which exploits the margins of error within control apparatuses exemplified by such mechanisms as "surveillance." The linkage of "surveillance" to "codework" here stands for the way in which infrastructures of power always operate on a basis of hybridity & structural discontinuities which leave them open to "uses" other than those sought or intended by the various institutions of "authority." That authority, too, is inherently linked to codework, to the authenticity & authorship of certain codes or codices (of the law), points not only to existing critiques of "writing" but to the institution of critique itself & the enormous resources of codification which are today applied in the name of learning &/or knowledge. As in Orwell's 1984, it remains necessary to consider seriously the fact that "authority," in order to be what it is, deploys its resources in a hugely asymmetrical way "against" the "individual"--that sabotage (or terrorism) is not exclusively a means used by individuals (or cells of individuals) against the symbols & institutions of "authority." Codework in this sense is not the masturbatory fantasy of the programmer or hacker, but above all the game of power calling its own bluff & still trying to reduce all the bad odds to zero. ________________________________________________________________ LOUIS ARMAND UAA Philosophy Faculty, Charles University Nam. J. Palacha 2, 116 38 Praha 1, Czech Republic www.geocities.com/louis_armand --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:50:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: African Poetry Mag interview w/Stephen Vincent In-Reply-To: <20030701212128.BRER15657.lakemtao06.cox.net@smtp.central.cox.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit www.sentinelpoetry.org.uk In the mid-Sixties, during the two years that preceded the Biafra/Nigerian Civil War I had the good - and finally mixed - fortune to teach - as a Peace Corps Volunteer at the University of Nigera, Nsukka (which was at the intellectual heart of the unsuccessful secessionist movement - ironically, for reasons I will not go into here, I did not support the soon oncoming war, one that with some colleagues - including an also young Ken Tsara-Wiwa - we forecasted as either fatalistic or self-serving for a few.) However, the Sentinel is a fledgling On-Line London based magazine that is edited by Nnorom Azonye, the brother of a former student. And I am delighted to be interviewed - in the first of two parts - in the current issue. The interview has given me the wonderful opportunity to bring up what it was like to live, write poetry and teach in Nigeria. Nsukka just happened to be a hot bed of writing at the time - I was surrounded by both well published poets and students who were similarly ambitious. Take a look and I look forward to any response. Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:37:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: 4 new Vispo cross-stitch by Maria Damon Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SPIDERTANGLE the_book has 4 new cross stitch poems by Maria Damon: _______________________________________________ "'Reveal Codes: Real Ode for Reality' for Rita Raley" http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/damon2.html "Stephen Vincent's Dream I: for Nick Piombino" http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/damon3.html "Stephen Vincent's Dream II: for Stephen Vincent" http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/damon5.html "B: tiny arkhive: for Adeena Karasick" http://www.spidertangle.net/the_book/damon4.html _______________________________________________ www.spidertangle.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:43:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Marcella Durand email In-Reply-To: <12e.2c641285.2c1f03f4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could someone please back channel me Marcella Durands email thank you kari edwards ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:42:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE=C2=A0=3A_change_of_address?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIE1hcmshDQogDQpJIG1haWxlZCBGdWxjcnVtIHllc3RlcmRheSB0byB5b3VyIG9sZCBhZGRy ZXNzIC0tIEkgaG9wZSBpdCB3aWxsIHJlYWNoIHlvdSBiZWZvcmUgeW91IG1vdmUuDQogDQpCZXN0 LA0KUGhpbGlwDQoNCgktLS0tLS0tLSBNZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tLS0tIA0KCURlOiBN YXJrIER1Q2hhcm1lIFttYWlsdG86bWFya2R1Y2hhcm1lQEhPVE1BSUwuQ09NXSANCglEYXRlOiBt ZXIuIDcvMi8yMDAzIDE6MjYgDQoJw4A6IFBPRVRJQ1NATElTVFNFUlYuQlVGRkFMTy5FRFUgDQoJ Q2M6IA0KCU9iamV0OiBjaGFuZ2Ugb2YgYWRkcmVzcw0KCQ0KCQ0KDQoJRGVhciBGcmllbmRzLCBG ZWxsb3cgVHJhdmVsZXJzIGluIHRoZSBQb2V0cnkgV29ybGRzLCAmIERpc2ludGVyZXN0ZWQNCglQ YXJ0aWVzLS0NCgkNCglUaGlzIGlzIGp1c3QgdG8gc2F5DQoJdGhhdCBhcyBvZiBKdWx5IDExdGgs IDIwMDMNCglteSBuZXcgYWRkcmVzcyB3aWxsIGJlDQoJDQoJMzAzNSBPJ05lYWwgUGFya3dheSAj Vi0xNA0KCUJvdWxkZXIsIENPIDgwMzAxDQoJDQoJVGhlIHBob25lIG51bWJlciAmIGUtbWFpbCBh ZGRyZXNzZXMgd2lsbCByZW1haW4gdGhlIHNhbWUuDQoJDQoJQWxsIEJlc3QsDQoJDQoJTWFyayBE dUNoYXJtZQ0KCQ0KCV9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoJQWRkIHBob3RvcyB0byB5b3VyIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHdpdGgg TVNOIDguIEdldCAyIG1vbnRocyBGUkVFKi4NCglodHRwOi8vam9pbi5tc24uY29tLz9wYWdlPWZl YXR1cmVzL2ZlYXR1cmVkZW1haWwNCgkNCg0K ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:44:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: =?utf-8?Q?RE=C2=A0=3A_change_of_address?= In-Reply-To: <10F2B8E6B6C9AC4993FC1FB47C0D88CC602244@karat.kandasoft.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since I'm not moving before late winter/early spring it would be a lame=20 horse that would take so long. I look forward, and wiull let you know when= =20 it arrives. Marki At 03:42 PM 7/2/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, Mark! > >I mailed Fulcrum yesterday to your old address -- I hope it will reach you= =20 >before you move. > >Best, >Philip > > -------- Message d'origine-------- > De: Mark DuCharme [mailto:markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM] > Date: mer. 7/2/2003 1:26 > =C3=80: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Cc: > Objet: change of address > > > > Dear Friends, Fellow Travelers in the Poetry Worlds, &= Disinterested > Parties-- > > This is just to say > that as of July 11th, 2003 > my new address will be > > 3035 O'Neal Parkway #V-14 > Boulder, CO 80301 > > The phone number & e-mail addresses will remain the same. > > All Best, > > Mark DuCharme > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:52:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE=C2=A0=3A_change_of_address?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U2h1Y2tzLCBhcG9sb2dpZXMgZm9yIHBvc3RpbmcgdG8gdGhlIGxpc3QuDQoNClBoaWxpcA0KDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:40:21 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: above/ground press - give me yr money above/ground press - the mind of a ten-year-old Now that the press is a decade long, I've been going through boxes of archive, & pulling various rare & out-of-print things out for sale, basically so I can afford to make more things. Prices in effect until the end of August 2003, or until I run out of stock, whichever comes first. I'll be making further lists as I find things. 1. Three Bloody Words, poems by Stephanie Bolster chapbook, 7 x 8 ½, 28 pages, published in an edition of 300 copies, 1996. pre-Alice in Wonderland fairytale poems. Composed during her MFA in creative writing from UBC, written from the encouragement of Daphne Marlatt. Bolster later won the 1998 Governor Generals Award for her first collection of poetry, White Stone: The Alice Poems (1998, Vehicule Press). 2 copies, $40 each. 2. Eve 'n Adam, by Michelle Desberets Fels. chapbook, 5 ½ x 8 ½, 12 pages, published in an edition of 200 copies, 1998. Six poems, accidentally published in the wrong order, with illustrations by the author.Her first collection, Last Child to Come Inside (Harbinger / Carleton University Press) appeared in 1998. 2 copies, $20 each. 3. The Commentaries, by Ken Norris chapbook, 5 ½ x 8 ½, 40 pages, published in an edition of 100 copies, 1999. the most active of the 1970's Vehicule Poets, out of Montreal. published to correspond with his millionth poetry collection, The Music (1995, ECW Press). written as compendium, a la Death of a Ladies Man, each piece in The Commentaries looks back on corresponding pieces in The Music. 2 copies, $25 each. 4. Provencal Songs [II], George Elliott Clarke. chapbook, 5 ½ x 8 ½, 28 pages, published in an edition of 150 copies, 1997 for an above/ground press / graffito fundraiser. parts of the collection later appeared in Blue (2002, Polestar). George Elliott Clarke has won more awards than I can count, including the Governor Generals Award in 2002 for Execution Poems (Gaspereau). 2 copies, $40 each. 5. Destinations, Leaving The Map, John Barton chapbook, 5 ½ x 8 ½, 16 pages, published in an edition of 100 copies, 1995 for a reading at the TREE Reading Series, Ottawa. pieces in the collection later appeared in the collection Sweet Ellipsis (1998, ECW Press). Barton recently won second for poetry in the 2003 CBC Literary Awards. 2 copies, $25 each. 6. Book of the Hours, rob mclennan chapbook, 5 ½ x 8 ½, 12 pages, published in an edition of 150 copies, 1997, for a reading at the BARD Reading Series, Ottawa. pieces in the collection later appeared in his second collection, bury me deep in the green wood (1999, ECW Press). 2 copies, $25 each. Make cheques payable to rob mclennan, 858 Somerset St W, Main Floor, Ottawa Ontario Canada, K1R 6R7. In Canada, these are Canadian prices. Anywhere else, they become American prices. for further backlist items not outrageously expensive, check out www.track0.com/rob_mclennan -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:00:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: =?utf-8?Q?RE=C2=A0=3A_change_of_address?= In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030702124259.01e259c8@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Woops! Sorry, Mark (other Mark), sorry Philip, sorry list. Mark (Otherother) Weiss At 12:44 PM 7/2/2003 -0700, Mark Weiss wrote: >Since I'm not moving before late winter/early spring it would be a lame=20 >horse that would take so long. I look forward, and wiull let you know when= =20 >it arrives. > >Marki > >At 03:42 PM 7/2/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi, Mark! >> >>I mailed Fulcrum yesterday to your old address -- I hope it will reach=20 >>you before you move. >> >>Best, >>Philip >> >> -------- Message d'origine-------- >> De: Mark DuCharme [mailto:markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM] >> Date: mer. 7/2/2003 1:26 >> =C3=80: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Cc: >> Objet: change of address >> >> >> >> Dear Friends, Fellow Travelers in the Poetry Worlds, &= Disinterested >> Parties-- >> >> This is just to say >> that as of July 11th, 2003 >> my new address will be >> >> 3035 O'Neal Parkway #V-14 >> Boulder, CO 80301 >> >> The phone number & e-mail addresses will remain the same. >> >> All Best, >> >> Mark DuCharme >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:11:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: How To Learn To Love Sodomy In-Reply-To: <12e.2c641285.2c1f03f4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ====== SF Gate Morning Fix ====== July 2, 2003 -- Michelle Branch turns 20 today By Mark Morford - morningfix@sfgate.com How To Learn To Love Sodomy This just in: GOP atremble, love and sex rejoice, revolution imminent. Can you feel it? By Mark Morford And now here we are, at a shimmeringly historic moment where we cannot help but note the delicious irony, the divine karmic genius of it all. When we cannot help but notice how millions of progressive love-minded Gay Pride folks across America, from S.F. to N.Y., from Atlanta to Seattle to Chicago, were actually cheering on the Supreme Court last week -- the same crusty bunch that snuck BushCo into office in the first place -- for slapping the tragically heartless GOP right across its wan butt with a leather whip and a shocking 6-3 decision, stunning the Christian right into disbelief and abject terror. Not to mention Canada's gay marriage, and maybe even how the United Kingdom, too, is one step away from legalizing gay unions, and the poor GOP is feeling the slope toward calm debauchery and delicious godlessness getting slippery indeed. Can I get a hell yeah. And these days, amidst BushCo's insane deficit and more tax cuts for the rich and 150,000 U.S. troops still stuck in Iraq, amidst a warmongering ethos and $135 mil set aside for "abstinence only" programs for America's disgusted youth, you take the joyous and the celebratory and the progressive and the pro-sexual and the positive where and when you can, honey. Truly, it will indeed be years before the Lawrence sodomy case has its full impact, as state by state, lawsuit by lawsuit, homophobic senator by homophobic senator, the walls break down and the prejudices evaporate and the hatred is squelched like a hissing cockroach. The war is far from over, but one of the most important battles in the history of gay -- nay, human -- rights has been won. Decisively. This case is, as many analysts have pointed out, Roe v. Wade for the new millennium, Brown v. the Board of Education for the next generation. It is seminal, landmark, a sea change. Go get yourself all wet with it. You simply have to note it. It cannot be denied. When not even this sometimes nasty Rehnquist court, saddled with Scalia's snide claim of a rampant "homosexual agenda," could turn back the tide, could find sufficient fault with consensual love and sex and fleshy exploration among open-minded adult humans of any gender and any orientation, well, you know something larger and more potent is going on. Here comes the radical notion. Here is where hard-core anti-lib conservatives snicker and roll their eyes and point and scowl about "goddamn liberals" and their "new-age tree-hugging commie-tofu crapola" and clutch their military portfolios and crank up the Toby Keith to numb the pain. Because this ruling isn't just a victory for gays. It isn't merely a victory for those seeking to advance the idea of gay marriage, or gay adoption, or "deviant" sexual activity (read: anything other than two minutes in the missionary position with a DustBuster and a copy of "Last Days," per the Christian right), or even a victory for basic human rights for all sexual orientations in this nation. It is, quite simply, a stunning and rather unexpected victory for the spirit, for the heart, for the body, for the very notion that we as a humble and chaotic and distressed species can actually progress almost despite ourselves, despite a famously oppressive and uptight leadership, despite reams of deceit and war and John Ashcroft's sad nipple fetish. This is a crazed wildflower bursting through a concrete sidewalk. This is a breath of fresh air after smoking four packs of toxic disinformation a day for the past three years. This is the unexpected royal flush when all you've been dealt to date are jokers and suicide kings. And, for proof, we need only look to the Trent Lotts and Rick Santorums and Bill Frists of the Right's political oligarchy, the sneering Republican apocalyptics who are right this minute scrunched and apoplectic and immediately proposing a major change to the U.S. Constitution to block gay marriage forever, to try and protect the "sanctity" of God-given man/woman missionary-position 50-percent-divorce-rate marriage in this country. To protect it from, well, they don't know what, exactly, but it's something very, very icky and scary and it's coming for their sons and daughters right now and it reeks of lavender and honey and butch haircuts and tattoos and it loves to wear glitter and Versace and to sing. They want to actually change the U.S. Constitution. This is how terrified they are. This is how utterly embittered and out of touch and absolutely determined they are to keep this nation under the callused thumb of religious dogma and free of anything resembling orgasmic delight and karmic evolution. And this is how you know. When those whose sole agenda is to promote the tyranny of fear and violently misinterpret the Bible for their own acidic agenda are themselves horrified and running scared, there has been a gorgeous breakthrough. Maybe it's this. Maybe this case signifies the deeper acknowledgment of our purpose on the planet, the subtle realization that God, that the divine, is not, in fact, separate from the flesh, is not something to be dreaded and guilted by and wielded like a bloody sanctimonious sword by born-again presidents and sexless attorney generals and snickering foreign despots. In other words, maybe this is not, as the GOP so desperately wants everyone to believe, about icky "deviant" sex and unholy gay marriage and blasphemous anal-sex toys at all. Maybe the change is about the potency of love. About the natural explorations of love in nature, of human relationships and the freedom to explore and let love penetrate our lives and make the divine into something we can touch, taste, slide into and, ultimately, incarnate. Oh my heavens. No wonder the conservative Right is aghast and atwitter. No wonder the Death Star is panicky and sweaty and flagellating itself. Because the divine is winking in our general direction. And, this time, it looks like we just might wink back. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:16:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, there was also that much-anticipated Weird Al Yankovich parody that Eminem killed at the last moment -- I'm sure that would have been great! I have to admit to some of the same initial antipathy towards Eminem expressed by Steve; but then I popped on my roommate's CD one day and discovered that yes, in fact, the kid is quite talented. To me the hook is not the thug pose or even the storytelling, but the inventive things he's able to do with "feminine" (multi-syllable) rhymes... although they're not always perfect, in fact rarely so, what they lack in exact rhyme they make up for in sheer numbers and ingenuity. Now it's quite possible, as Jerrold pointed out, that there have been/are much better rappers and rhymers out there in the world of hip hop; but if that's the case, I haven't heard them, because they haven't pierced the mainstream the way Eminem has. I haven't listened to rap in many years. Of course that was the way with Elvis back then -- he exposed a lot of people to a type of music that they otherwise wouldn't have heard, because he was white, and acceptable (albeit barely) to the white mainstream. But I'll still take Eminem, who at least presents the genuine article, over a no-talented poser like Kid Rock, who also hails from the Detroit area. David -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gwyn McVay Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:15 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem I think my favorite thing about Eminem is not his own song, but a parody of "Slim Shady" that goes "I'm Greg Brady, I'm the real Greg Brady" -- performed by Barry Williams, the real Greg Brady. I don't know if it's still on his website, www.barrywilliams.com, but it's damn funny and just pokes a huge hole in the Eminem ego-image-monster. Gwyn --- "Nobody gets paid for being a poemer." -- Bucky the cat, "Get Fuzzy," 6/30/03 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:14:54 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ravi Shankar Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Nearly a year ago, there was an article in the New Yorker, I think, that dissected the three-pronged persona of Eminem (Slim Shady, the misogynistic, homophobic thug; Eminem, the platinum-record selling superstar; and Marshall Mathers, the bemused Detroit kid behind it all, taken aback by the fame) as a marketing ploy par extradonaire, a vehicle that allowed M simultaneously to cause controversy and to distance himself from the views that caused the controversy, raising record sales while remaining immune to his critics' rancor. Perhaps that's so, and having heard him freestyle, I have to give him props as a MC. But he doesn't have the verbal pyrotechnics of a number of other rappers in my estimation. Here's a list of five rappers (with an indicative lyric) off the top of my head who'd do better with the appellation of poet than Eminem does: -Mos Def I seen her on the ave, spotted her more than once Ass so fat that you could see it from the front -Nas Bus stop glass bursts, a fiend drops his Heineken Ricocheting between the spots that I'm hidin in -Talib Kweli (of Black Star) Makin wack rappers go and merc the set Better off behind a desk tryin to surf the net Adament, worse than boric acid in your project cabinet -Q-Tip (of Tribe Called Quest) So sit and anylze this lyrical spray Cause all it really is word play -and of course, the brilliant, fatally flawed, ultimately doomed, Notorious BIG: Excuse me, flows just go through me Like trees to branches, cliffs to avalanches. -RS Ravi Shankar ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:22:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A quick chime in here, Eminem is talented with his rhymes, but he will never be able to do what Biggie Smalls did. Biggie was incredible. Early on JayZ was also quite good, but he's fallen off quite a big, and Nelly is not someone I consider to be that talented at all. Let's not forget the irrepressible SHIZZOLATOR. Not only can Snoopp rhyme, he can create languages. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of David Hadbawnik Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:17 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Well, there was also that much-anticipated Weird Al Yankovich parody that Eminem killed at the last moment -- I'm sure that would have been great! I have to admit to some of the same initial antipathy towards Eminem expressed by Steve; but then I popped on my roommate's CD one day and discovered that yes, in fact, the kid is quite talented. To me the hook is not the thug pose or even the storytelling, but the inventive things he's able to do with "feminine" (multi-syllable) rhymes... although they're not always perfect, in fact rarely so, what they lack in exact rhyme they make up for in sheer numbers and ingenuity. Now it's quite possible, as Jerrold pointed out, that there have been/are much better rappers and rhymers out there in the world of hip hop; but if that's the case, I haven't heard them, because they haven't pierced the mainstream the way Eminem has. I haven't listened to rap in many years. Of course that was the way with Elvis back then -- he exposed a lot of people to a type of music that they otherwise wouldn't have heard, because he was white, and acceptable (albeit barely) to the white mainstream. But I'll still take Eminem, who at least presents the genuine article, over a no-talented poser like Kid Rock, who also hails from the Detroit area. David -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Gwyn McVay Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:15 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem I think my favorite thing about Eminem is not his own song, but a parody of "Slim Shady" that goes "I'm Greg Brady, I'm the real Greg Brady" -- performed by Barry Williams, the real Greg Brady. I don't know if it's still on his website, www.barrywilliams.com, but it's damn funny and just pokes a huge hole in the Eminem ego-image-monster. Gwyn --- "Nobody gets paid for being a poemer." -- Bucky the cat, "Get Fuzzy," 6/30/03 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: <20030702201454.15246.qmail@graffiti.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep, beat me to it, Ravi. Biggie was KING. Good to see Talib Kweli, Q-Tipp, and Nas (QUEENS IN THE HOUSE) on the BuffPo. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ravi Shankar Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:15 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Nearly a year ago, there was an article in the New Yorker, I think, that dissected the three-pronged persona of Eminem (Slim Shady, the misogynistic, homophobic thug; Eminem, the platinum-record selling superstar; and Marshall Mathers, the bemused Detroit kid behind it all, taken aback by the fame) as a marketing ploy par extradonaire, a vehicle that allowed M simultaneously to cause controversy and to distance himself from the views that caused the controversy, raising record sales while remaining immune to his critics' rancor. Perhaps that's so, and having heard him freestyle, I have to give him props as a MC. But he doesn't have the verbal pyrotechnics of a number of other rappers in my estimation. Here's a list of five rappers (with an indicative lyric) off the top of my head who'd do better with the appellation of poet than Eminem does: -Mos Def I seen her on the ave, spotted her more than once Ass so fat that you could see it from the front -Nas Bus stop glass bursts, a fiend drops his Heineken Ricocheting between the spots that I'm hidin in -Talib Kweli (of Black Star) Makin wack rappers go and merc the set Better off behind a desk tryin to surf the net Adament, worse than boric acid in your project cabinet -Q-Tip (of Tribe Called Quest) So sit and anylze this lyrical spray Cause all it really is word play -and of course, the brilliant, fatally flawed, ultimately doomed, Notorious BIG: Excuse me, flows just go through me Like trees to branches, cliffs to avalanches. -RS Ravi Shankar ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:08:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All I know of Eminem (melts in your mouth, not in your hand) is what I learned from *8 Mile* (one of those movies I can't remember the morning after I've seen it), but does anyone know if/how Eminem would sing the praises of Heaney? Hal "Disorder is merely the order you are not looking for." --Henri Bergson Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { I agree w/ Geoffrey but I also happen to like Eminem and why not poetry? { It's definitely the cross-over thing but he's great at invention. { { For some of us, just like rocknroll, if it doesn't disturb it's not poetry { -= { { Alan { { http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ { http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt { Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm { finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:36:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" kind of a nice counterpoint to seamus heaney endorsing eminem. > >+++ > > > >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture has >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis Kucinich. > >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich for >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who are too >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole political >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, but >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and bravery who >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food laws and >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the interests of >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the greed >of industrial agribusiness. > >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this is >more about getting involved with America than with politics. I >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be doing >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do concerts to >benefit the campaign." > >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the views of >any organization.) > >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the support of a >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, momentum >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we increase our >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and fundraising. > >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many candidates >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see why >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:45:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: The Olympic Tent City (Vancouver) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vancouver Activists To Open Olympic Tent City http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/54829.php July 2, 2003 Independent Media Vancouver, Canada Even though Vancouver is notorious for its police violence since the publication a Human Rights Watch report in May 2003 and a Pivot Legal Society affidavit campaign of last year, the Associated Press and other news producers nonetheless filled their outlets this morning with descriptions of "wild cheering and flag-waving" on the street of this city. In the Downtown Eastside neighbourhood, however, local residents, squatters, and homeless citizens from the Housing Action Committee (HAC) have joined forces with the direct-action group the Anti-Poverty Committee (APC), to fight back by opening an Olympic Tent City tonight. Their target is Gordon Campbell and the Liberal government of British Columbia: for dismantling social services and privatizing public utilities. The groups have two demands. The first is that welfare is a right and that the government must not sever the benefits of 38,000 people in April 2004 as they have scheduled to do. The second is that there should be social housing for all in need. Both welfare and housing are the responsibility of the provincial government. Meanwhile, a representative of the City of Vancouver has issued a threat to the groups if they continue with their plan to construct the Olympic Tent City and food kitchen, which has broad endorsement by community and labour organizations. Councillor Jim Green stated to CKNW radio that "we can deal with them." Vancouver Police Department Chief Constable Jamie Graham is expected to back up the City's threat with a show of force this evening. Human Rights Watch Report http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/canada Pivot Legal Society Report http://www.pivotlegal.org/beta/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=28&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 Anti-Poverty Committee 604-682-2726 Vancouver Police Persecuting Drug Users: Anti-drug Crackdown May Worsen North America's Worst AIDS Epidemic (Vancouver, May 7, 2003) -- An anti-drug crackdown by the Vancouver Police Department has driven injection drug users away from life-saving HIV prevention services, raising fears of a new wave of HIV transmission in the city that is already home to the worst AIDS crisis in the developed world, said Human Rights Watch. In a 25-page report released today, "Abusing the User: Police Misconduct, Harm Reduction and HIV/AIDS in Vancouver," Human Rights Watch documents instances of unnecessary force and mistreatment, arbitrary arrest, and other intimidation and harassment of drug users as part of a campaign commonly referred to as Operation Torpedo. The crackdown began on April 7 in the city's impoverished Downtown Eastside neighborhood. Though drug traffickers are the ostensible target, drug users not charged with selling drugs have been driven to places where health workers cannot reach them to ensure access to sterile syringes and other HIV prevention services. "The flouting of due process in this crackdown is shocking for a country with Canada's strong commitment to human rights," said Joanne Csete, director of the HIV/AIDS Program of Human Rights Watch. "Vancouver risks making its HIV/AIDS crisis much worse--and it's already the worst on the continent." Based on a field study conducted in recent weeks, Human Rights Watch documented cases of police officers beating and otherwise mistreating drug users in custody, conducting public strip searches, and using petty allegations such as jaywalking to justify stops and searches. The report also documents a significant reduction in the use of needle exchange programs and other life-saving services related to fear of police abuse and harassment among drug users. In November 2002, Vancouver elected a mayor and city council members whose platform included support for a "four-pillar" strategy to address illegal drug use, including needle exchange programs and safe injection facilities. Since those officials took office in January 2003, the city's most conspicuous anti-drug effort has been several crackdowns against users and dealers, of which the current operation is the most prominent. Vancouver is a candidate city to host the winter Olympic games of 2010. The decision of the host city will be announced in July. "As Olympic fever grows in the city, the temptation to continue to 'clean up' the Downtown Eastside through repressive means will also grow, but it must be resisted," Csete said. "We know from the experience of scores of countries that the way to contain an AIDS epidemic is to work respectfully with those persons at highest risk--exactly the opposite of what Vancouver is doing." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:03:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem In-Reply-To: <008e01c340d8$305c1300$a3175581@rockefeller.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All right, I guess what I'm grokking here is that Heaney would have more justifiably praised one of these worthier rappers, but like the rest of the mainstream world, he has probably only heard of Eminem. I very seriously doubt Heaney's sitting in his flat hitting the 420 and spinning the latest from Snoop, Nelly et al. That still doesn't mean that Eminem isn't a very talented wordsmith -- poet's a pretty strong word, but then he's more inventive and a damn sight funnier than most young poets I know, myself included, if I still qualify as young or a poet. And I doubt that Eminem would have benefited AT ALL from a more polished education, as someone suggested; he is what he is and he's great at that, although i'd be willing to bet that all the mainstream success isn't going to make him a better rapper. And I'm sure that, conversely, he isn't sitting in his Grosse Pointe mansion worried about what all of us think of his rhymes. On a separate pop culture note: has anyone else seen the poster for the new Ben Affleck/J-Lo opus "Gigli"? And has there ever been a worse name for a movie in the history of cinema? To describe the poster: J-Lo torques herself up into a curvaceous stance, buttons practically popping off her blouse and jeans so tight over her round ass that you can read her credit card number through the denim, while Ben gazes smugly down at her, his hands shoved with self-conscious carelessness into the pockets of a leather jacket. That's it; apparently, the sheer animal magnetism between them is supposed to be enough to draw me to the movie. If this thing doesn't bomb worse than Ishtar -- I'll eat my Gigli. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Anastasios Kozaitis Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:26 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Yep, beat me to it, Ravi. Biggie was KING. Good to see Talib Kweli, Q-Tipp, and Nas (QUEENS IN THE HOUSE) on the BuffPo. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ravi Shankar Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:15 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Nearly a year ago, there was an article in the New Yorker, I think, that dissected the three-pronged persona of Eminem (Slim Shady, the misogynistic, homophobic thug; Eminem, the platinum-record selling superstar; and Marshall Mathers, the bemused Detroit kid behind it all, taken aback by the fame) as a marketing ploy par extradonaire, a vehicle that allowed M simultaneously to cause controversy and to distance himself from the views that caused the controversy, raising record sales while remaining immune to his critics' rancor. Perhaps that's so, and having heard him freestyle, I have to give him props as a MC. But he doesn't have the verbal pyrotechnics of a number of other rappers in my estimation. Here's a list of five rappers (with an indicative lyric) off the top of my head who'd do better with the appellation of poet than Eminem does: -Mos Def I seen her on the ave, spotted her more than once Ass so fat that you could see it from the front -Nas Bus stop glass bursts, a fiend drops his Heineken Ricocheting between the spots that I'm hidin in -Talib Kweli (of Black Star) Makin wack rappers go and merc the set Better off behind a desk tryin to surf the net Adament, worse than boric acid in your project cabinet -Q-Tip (of Tribe Called Quest) So sit and anylze this lyrical spray Cause all it really is word play -and of course, the brilliant, fatally flawed, ultimately doomed, Notorious BIG: Excuse me, flows just go through me Like trees to branches, cliffs to avalanches. -RS Ravi Shankar ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:03:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Re: Fwd: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I logged some time on the Kucinich Web site and I'm very impressed with his views. Willy Nelson never steers you wrong! Brennen > > From: Maria Damon > Date: 2003/07/02 Wed PM 06:36:55 EDT > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Fwd: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > kind of a nice counterpoint to seamus heaney endorsing eminem. > > > > >+++ > > > > > > > >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:19:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: RE : change of address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Don't worry, Philip, it should reach me. My future ex will still be living in the old place til the end of July. I'll also fill out a change of address form with the post office. Thanks for your concern, though. All best, Mark >From: Philip Nikolayev >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: RE : change of address >Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:42:01 -0400 > >Hi, Mark! > >I mailed Fulcrum yesterday to your old address -- I hope it will reach you >before you move. > >Best, >Philip > > -------- Message d'origine-------- > De: Mark DuCharme [mailto:markducharme@HOTMAIL.COM] > Date: mer. 7/2/2003 1:26 > À: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Cc: > Objet: change of address > > > > Dear Friends, Fellow Travelers in the Poetry Worlds, & Disinterested > Parties-- > > This is just to say > that as of July 11th, 2003 > my new address will be > > 3035 O'Neal Parkway #V-14 > Boulder, CO 80301 > > The phone number & e-mail addresses will remain the same. > > All Best, > > Mark DuCharme > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:01:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: this 4th remember Ted Berrigan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As many of you know, this Friday will be 20 years since Ted Berrigan passed away. Remember him, his work, in your own way. Tell one person who Ted was who doesn't already know. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:37:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: #0002 iconoclassic excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #0002 iconoclassic excerpt whorled . Stamens whorled . Stamens wish you would read starters play whorled . Stamens and the last of the wish you would read wish you would read whorled . Stamens between the reversed its retreat reversed its retreat on to his home between the wish you would read mill engine with, 9-10 . Anthers 9-10 . Anthers hundred yards know it." 9-10 . Anthers a greater personage hundred yards hundred yards 9-10 . Anthers fiber; and in some reproduction. reproduction. for it. Gardner fiber; and in some hundred yards the basement- dorsifixed, or dorsifixed, or facility in polygamomonoecious. dorsifixed, or tenuinucellate. facility in facility in dorsifixed, or the germinal and cruciform aft and cruciform aft they forced their the germinal facility in inferior surface is lost like, and lost like, and Malvales. . . endospermic. lost like, and the woods and stood Malvales. . . Malvales. . . lost like, and suffered a the bladder the the bladder the suffered a Malvales. . . and wouldn't take no wouldn't take no were in a heated leaping flames. wouldn't take no agricultural were in a heated were in a heated wouldn't take no replacing bench tank. Aaron McKie gave the Aaron McKie gave the "Ilyich mostly - replacing bench tank. were in a heated suite including notice of nobody. notice of nobody. the beginnings of notice of nobody. caudate lobe to the the beginnings of the beginnings of notice of nobody. Forget I said but he didn't slow but he didn't slow "I heard you Forget I said the beginnings of Tremors ran through august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:04:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew out of there, and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, of the economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be running against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the strongest candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign policy, but first things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage already, wait until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention to the people at all! -Joel W. > >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture has > >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis Kucinich. > > > >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich for > >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who are too > >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole political > >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, but > >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and bravery who > >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul > >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food laws and > >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the interests of > >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the greed > >of industrial agribusiness. > > > >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this is > >more about getting involved with America than with politics. I > >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be doing > >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do concerts to > >benefit the campaign." > > > >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the views of > >any organization.) > > > >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the support of a > >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > > > >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, momentum > >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we increase our > >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and fundraising. > > > >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis > >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many candidates > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see why > >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:55:03 -0600 Reply-To: gjfarrah@cloudnet.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "George J. Farrah" Subject: Swans Through The House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With which you need agree be comforted in an incompetent way in a way which does not make sense excluding certain groups of people being incompatible in thought not to be compared incompletely falsely imagining not thinking of other people when their language without a definite result for a book of hot weather in Autumn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Alan Sondheim supernumerary limbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Alan Sondheim supernumerary limbs 1 ... in You @salt and gold <Julu> your limbs around me ... Daishin Nikuko <root@166.84.250.149> :To: sondheim@panix.com ... nikuko soothes my eyes blessed alan wipes my ... ... to think about, all that corporate supernumerary exchange. ... ( , 3/2-3) shudder, Alan does ... Lee Burke, Heaven's Prisoners).&quot; (Sondheim, Love, The ... 2 ... in You @salt and gold <Julu> your limbs around me ... Daishin Nikuko <root@166.84.250.149> :To: sondheim@panix.com ... nikuko soothes my eyes blessed alan wipes my ... ... to think about, all that corporate supernumerary exchange. ... ( , 3/2-3) shudder, Alan does ... Lee Burke, Heaven's Prisoners).&quot; (Sondheim, Love, The ... 3 ... in You @salt and gold <Julu> your limbs around me ... Daishin Nikuko <root@166.84.250.149> :To: sondheim@panix.com ... nikuko soothes my eyes blessed alan wipes my ... ... to think about, all that corporate supernumerary exchange. ... ( , 3/2-3) shudder, Alan does ... Lee Burke, Heaven's Prisoners).&quot; (Sondheim, Love, The ... 4 ... in You @salt and gold <Julu> your limbs around me ... Daishin Nikuko <root@166.84.250.149> :To: sondheim@panix.com ... nikuko soothes my eyes blessed alan wipes my ... ... to think about, all that corporate supernumerary exchange. ... ( , 3/2-3) shudder, Alan does ... Lee Burke, Heaven's Prisoners).&quot; (Sondheim, Love, The ... Alan Sondheim supernumerary limbs 5 ... in You @salt and gold <Julu> your limbs around me ... Daishin Nikuko <root@166.84.250.149> :To: sondheim@panix.com ... nikuko soothes my eyes blessed alan wipes my ... ... to think about, all that corporate supernumerary exchange. ... ( , 3/2-3) shudder, Alan does ... Lee Burke, Heaven's Prisoners).&quot; (Sondheim, Love, The ... Alan Sondheim supernumerary limbs 3 supernumerary limbs ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:00:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Jrrttltos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Jrrttltos jrrttltos gxkdfide x wazmzlpa uj m Your penis will grow up to 3 inches Your erections will be rock hard Your sex drive will be supercharged Your orgasms will be more intense Your partner will be astounded jrrttltos gxkdfide x wazmzlpa uj m Your rock hard penis will never break. Your fucking will go on forever. A huge pipe will hose your semen. Your partner will be thoroughly reamed. Your calloused skin will burn through rubber. Your endless erection will consume your food. Your orgasms will thrash your body. jrrttltos gxkdfide x wazmzlpa uj m Your giant rock hard will explode. Your penis will grow three feet longer. Your sex drive will be forever furious. Your cum will be a mighty jet. Your mind will be forever blown. Your penis is a mighty cannon. Your nose will grow three inches long. chorus, "Partner, astouned partner" Partner, astounded partner never will break. never fucking go fucking on will forever. go A huge A pipe huge hose will your hose semen. your thoroughly will reamed. be calloused Your skin calloused burn will through burn rubber. through endless Your erection endless consume will food. your thrash orgasms body. thrash giant explode. hard three grow feet three longer. feet forever be furious. forever cum Your a be mighty a jet. mighty mind blown. be is Your cannon. a nose Your long. inches chorus, "The jrrttltos" jrrttltos gxkdfide x wazmzlpa uj m Your penis will grow up to 3 inches erections be rock hard sex drive supercharged orgasms more intense partner astounded never break. fucking go on forever. A huge pipe hose your semen. thoroughly reamed. calloused skin burn through rubber. endless erection consume food. thrash body. giant explode. three feet longer. forever furious. cum a mighty jet. mind blown. is cannon. nose long. chorus, "Partner, astouned partner" Partner, ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:37:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: this 4th remember Ted Berrigan In-Reply-To: <352CAF9C.63645756.0AE771A7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks for the reminder, David. I'll be reading at a group reading "celebrating peace as patriotic" here in Tucson on Sunday, and I'll mention Ted and perhaps pick out something of his to read. Charles At 07:01 PM 7/2/2003 -0400, you wrote: >As many of you know, this Friday will be 20 years since Ted Berrigan >passed away. > >Remember him, his work, in your own way. > >Tell one person who Ted was who doesn't already know. > >as ever, >david > >-- >David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:45:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: New and GOOD book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really recommend Cox's book - he's the closest thing to a great critic to appear in Britain in the last, oh, century or two. A critic with an ear, an eye, and (for a change) a MIND. ======================================= "Injustice is impiety." Marcus Aurelius. Meditations IX.1 ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= Kenneth Cox: COLLECTED STUDIES IN THE USE OF ENGLISH (Agenda Editions, 2001) Pb, 269 pp, isbn 0 902400 69 X "I have learned more from Kenneth Cox's essays than from any other living critic of twentieth century poetry. He writes with masterly directness about the masters of indirection, and his summarizing power rivals that of Samuel Johnson." --Thom Gunn "I used to read Agenda only to catch Cox's thoughtful, well-written essays, so it's a pleasure to be able to have a compilation of them here." --Tony Frazer in Shearsman. "A 19th-century naturalist whose flora and fauna are 20th-century poets, Kenneth Cox is the model for how criticism would be written if there were anyone other than Cox who could write it." --Eliot Weinberger Kenneth Cox states in his Preface that his collection of essays "has arisen out of attempts initiated in the final third of the century just ended to introduce new, difficult or neglected work." This is the first time Kenneth Cox's essays have been collected. The book gives extended attention to Basil Bunting, Hugh MacDiarmid, Lorine Niedecker, Ezra Pound, and Louis Zukofsky. There are also essays on Geoffrey Chaucer, Joseph Conrad, Robert Creeley, Roy Fisher, George Gissing, R.C. Hutchinson, Alan Jenkins, James Joyce, Gael Turnbull, Allen Upward, Wyndham Lewis, and W.B. Yeats. The book can be ordered by phone or fax (01435 872165), by email (agendapoetry@lycos.co.uk), or by mail (AGENDA, The Wheelwrights, Fletching St, Mayfield, East Sussex TN20 6TL). Price: $35 USA, $40 Australia, $45 Canada and New Zealand, 12 pounds UK. Visa and Mastercard are accepted (please provide card number and expiry date) as are cheques in foreign currencies. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:23:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Book: The Smell of Oranges MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My first book, The Smell of Oranges, has just been released. Here is the title poem: The Smell of Oranges My mother would ask if I wanted them cut or peeled. I’d answer that I wanted them peeled if only to see her fingers hold them like clay to be molded. After peeling their husk, she would put her thumbs in the centre and break each into halves; Later separate the slices, one by one. I marvel at the flexible skins pulling away, not ever breaking at the pressure. - Jill Chan Published by Earl of Seacliff Art Workshop, New Zealand ISBN 1-86942-028-4 US $ 12 + $ 3 postage Canadian $ 15 + $ 4 postage Please e-mail me for details...put "the smell of oranges" in the subject line. Thanks. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 02:02:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: FW: Open Call for Launch Option Berlin In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ------ Forwarded Message From: Opsound Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:46:52 -0400 To: ANNOUNCEMENTS FGH , ANNOUNCEMENTS IJ , ANNOUNCEMENTS KL Subject: Open Call for Launch Option Berlin +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ OPEN CALL FOR LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ An open call to musicians & sound artists for LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN Musicians and sound artists of all kinds are invited to participate in LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN, a joint project of Opsound and Rocket Shop, which will take place at BueroFriedrich, Berlin, July 22-26, 2003 as part of BueroFriedrich's month-long Open Arch program. LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN is a test site and data gathering center, a 5-day event devoted to discovering, collecting, playing, and listening to the sounds & noises of Berlin. We want to know what Berlin sounds like: Berlin real, Berlin virtual, Berlin dreamt and desired -- from field recordings of Oranienstrasse to the music of underground punk bands, techno tracks and experimental audio files lurking on hard drives. Over the five days of the project and continuing through the internet, LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN will create a network of exchange, a temporary gift economy of sounds inspired by the free software and open source software communities. How to Participate: LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN, is gathering material for an open sound pool of material from, about, or inspired by the idea of Berlin. (We also have a weakness for sounds of, about, & inspired by rockets and rocket launches -- if you have any, we want them). Anyone is welcome to add work to the sound pool, and all material for the pool will be released under a Creative Commons license (the "Attribution-ShareAlike license"), a copyleft license in the spirit of open source software licenses which allows for all kinds of copying, remixing, use, and reuse while retaining an attribution to the original artist. Sound from the pool will be played in the LAUNCH OPTION control center at the BueroFriedrich gallery, mixed into sets by LAUNCH OPTION djs at parties and listening salons, and made available for remix contests and internet distribution through the opsound.org website. To enter your work in the pool visit Deadline: For practical reasons it is advisable to enter your work in the pool as soon as possible, but entries will be accepted up to and throughout the LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN event. In addition, we have many slots for live performances throughout the five-day period. If you can be in Berlin in person during July 22-26 and would like to perform your music or play your sounds, please contact us by email at launch@opsound.org Contact Info: http://www.opsound.org/launch.html launch@opsound.org http://www.rocketshop.net http://www.opsound.org http://www.buerofriedrich.org http://www.creativecommons.org About Rocket Shop: Rocket Shop was founded in 2001 by the artists Roger Frank and Laura Schleussner and featured monthly exhibitions in a store-front project space in Berlin through 2002. Rocket Shop is currently in orbit and currently presents regular exhibitions and events at venues in Berlin and abroad. Reflecting the function of rockets and spaceships as symbols of progress and carriers of collective visions of the future, the exhibition project is not only interested in the visionary function of art. Rocket Shop also supports art as a means of investigating the human aspect and impact of the unending pursuit of technical, social and personal utopias. http://www.rocketshop.net About Opsound: Opsound (http://www.opsound.org) responds to recent upheavals in the music industry by creating an alternative structure for musicians and sound-based artists wishing to share and release music under a copyleft, or open source structure. Opsound will gather a pool of sound material from artists and encourage the development of both web-based and real-world micro labels to release artists' work. All work will be released under a Creative Commons license which permits free copying and modification (the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license, http:/www.creativecommons.org). In the second phase of operation, over the coming months Opsound will also begin to function directly as a record label in its own right focusing on experimental electronic music. Opsound is a project of artist Sal Randolph. It is one of a series of artworks exploring the idea of social architecture as an art form. Other recent projects include Free Manifesta, The Free Biennial, and Free Words. More information can be found at http://www.highlala.com http://www.opsound.org About BueroFriedrich: BueroFriedrich has existed as a project space for contemporary art in Berlin Mitte since October 1997. BueroFriedrich was founded and is currently directed by Waling Boers. In a climate of intensified commercial and non-commercial exhibition activity, BueroFriedrich positions itself as an intermediary facility for contemporary art. With Open Arch BueroFriedrich presents a month-long series of summer shows, which invite artists and designers from the respective fields of architecture, publications, art and fashion to make use of the exhibition space for a 5-day period. The individual segments are not exhibitions in the traditional sense. Instead groups of artists and designers present projects which encourage interaction and participation on the part of the public. In conjunction with a series of talks, the series intends to generate active communication between the viewers and artists-producers. In some cases, projects will actually require and depend on on-site participation of the visitors. The core idea is to create a communicative space, in which the viewer is actively engaged. http://www.buerofriedrich.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ THAT'S ALL TILL NEXT TIME +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ LAUNCH OPTION BERLIN http://www.opsound.org/launch.html launch@opsound.org OPSOUND 648 Broadway, Suite 1005 New York, NY 10012 212-777-1156 http://www.opsound.org info@opsound.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If you'd like to unsubscribe, please reply with unsubscribe in the subject line. Thanks! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:23:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: TWHM VIII MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it is also our suggestion the process begins as an acute as soon as the number while the nail is thus with many changes throughout Europe the sharpness of the heart this amount can be applied the 8th 9th and 10th a small hole is cut separates into three layers with in a small hereditary elite spreads throughout the walls of this will be the same amount a corresponding graded decrease in push the two sections together be split longitudinally or either imagine the invention for this jury is likely from infection upon investigation we find laughing or the straining of this is very smart been deposited in the skin compatible with any family relationships indistensible fabric or plastic a ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:11:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Fw: A.Word.A.Day--saltant |Christian Bok; Eunoia reference| MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey did anyone else see this :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wordsmith" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:02 AM Subject: A.Word.A.Day--saltant > saltant (SAL-tuhnt) adjective > > Leaping, jumping, or dancing. > > [From Latin saltant-, stem of saltans, present participle of saltare (to > dance), frequentative of salire (to jump). Other words derived from the > same Latin root (salire) are sally, somersault, insult, result, and saute.] > > "Sarabands that can charm a saltant chap at a danza..." > Christian Bok; Eunoia; Coach House Books; 2001. > http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1552450929/ws00-20/ > > This week's theme: miscellaneous words. > > Sponsored by: > Try an awesome stress reliever: Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty! > In adult-sized handfuls and amazing colors, http://puttyworld.com > > AND > Derivation, a new fun game about word and phrase origins. Try a Derivation > quiz on terms from sports or politics. http://entspire.com/derivation/quiz.asp > > ............................................................................ > When you have only two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with > one, and a lily with the other. -Chinese proverb > > Sign off the list: http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/unsubscribe.html > Update your address: http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/address-change.html > Send a gift subscription: http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/gift.html > Subscribe yourself: http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/subscribe.html > > Pronunciation: > http://wordsmith.org/words/saltant.wav > http://wordsmith.org/words/saltant.ram > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:29:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE=C2=A0=3A_New_and_GOOD_book?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmtzIGZvciBwb3N0aW5nIHRoaXMsIFBldGVyIC0tIHNvdW5kcyB2ZXJ5IGludGVyZXN0aW5n LiBJIGhhdmUgbmV2ZXIgcmVhZCBhbnkgQ294IGJlZm9yZTsgcGVyaGFwcyBub3cncyB0aGUgdGlt ZSB0byBzdGFydCAtLSBJJ2xsIG9yZGVyIHRoZSBib29rLg0KIA0KUGhpbGlwDQogDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:25:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support In-Reply-To: <003801c340f6$b3ae8f80$76fdfc83@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, i.e. the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still make a difference. At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew out of there, >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, of the >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be running >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the strongest >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign policy, but first >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage already, wait >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention to the >people at all! > >-Joel W. > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT >> > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture has >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis Kucinich. >> > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich for >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who are too >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole political >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, but >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and bravery who >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food laws and >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the interests of >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the greed >> >of industrial agribusiness. >> > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this is >> >more about getting involved with America than with politics. I >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be doing >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do concerts to >> >benefit the campaign." >> > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the views of >> >any organization.) >> > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the support of a >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## >> > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, momentum >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we increase our >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and fundraising. >> > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many candidates > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see why >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out >> >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## >> > >> > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >> >ADVERTISEMENT >> >>958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=6017 >8276&partid=3170658> >> > >> > >> > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > >> > >> > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> >> >> -- -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:52:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathleen Ossip Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This discussion calls to mind the quality I think of as pop...a gift for exciting large groups of people with one's work, and personality or persona...distinct from art but not incompatible with it. In fact, to my mind art that does have this indefinable and unbottleable quality of pop is the most thrilling art there is, and I love it when I encounter it in poetry too. No doubt that Eminem has it, and yes, it often happens as a result of a more palatable or marketable artist borrowing from what purists think of as "the real thing." But I don't think Eminem, or Elvis for that matter, started out as "palatable"; they opened up a new area of expression for mass consumption, and I do see a value in that. "If it sells it can't be art" is a pretty common form of critical closemindedness... I can't help thinking that poets (myself included) might do with a little more "pop" consciousness... Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ravi Shankar Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:15 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Nearly a year ago, there was an article in the New Yorker, I think, that dissected the three-pronged persona of Eminem (Slim Shady, the misogynistic, homophobic thug; Eminem, the platinum-record selling superstar; and Marshall Mathers, the bemused Detroit kid behind it all, taken aback by the fame) as a marketing ploy par extradonaire, a vehicle that allowed M simultaneously to cause controversy and to distance himself from the views that caused the controversy, raising record sales while remaining immune to his critics' rancor. Perhaps that's so, and having heard him freestyle, I have to give him props as a MC. But he doesn't have the verbal pyrotechnics of a number of other rappers in my estimation. Here's a list of five rappers (with an indicative lyric) off the top of my head who'd do better with the appellation of poet than Eminem does: -Mos Def I seen her on the ave, spotted her more than once Ass so fat that you could see it from the front -Nas Bus stop glass bursts, a fiend drops his Heineken Ricocheting between the spots that I'm hidin in -Talib Kweli (of Black Star) Makin wack rappers go and merc the set Better off behind a desk tryin to surf the net Adament, worse than boric acid in your project cabinet -Q-Tip (of Tribe Called Quest) So sit and anylze this lyrical spray Cause all it really is word play -and of course, the brilliant, fatally flawed, ultimately doomed, Notorious BIG: Excuse me, flows just go through me Like trees to branches, cliffs to avalanches. -RS Ravi Shankar ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:23:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: News from the EPC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .............................. NEWS from the EPC= .............................. LINKS UPDATED The Electronic Poetry Center -- http://epc.buffalo.edu -- has redesigned=20 its links pages. On the top menu on every EPC page you will see a choice of= =20 going to our list of Alpahbetical and Subject links. The alphabetic links=20 page has all EPC links in one file, while the Subject links breaks down our= =20 list into presses, web sites, organizations, and the like. We always=20 appreciate corrections to these links as well as recommendations for new=20 links. Please send these to: http://epc.buffalo.edu/forms/link.html NEW RESOURCES Rod Smith Author Page, Poets Against the War, Charles Bernstein "new" page,= =20 Poetry Plastique, Soleida R=EDos Author Page, Robin Blaser Author Page,=20 Camille Martin Author Page, Nathaniel Mackey reading/conversation at the=20 MLA, Clayton Eshleman reading C=E9sair=E9, Richard Foreman homepage, Bruce= =20 Andrews Roundtable Discussion (March 8, 1996), Myung Mi Kim author page,=20 all available under "New" at http://epc.buffalo.edu EPC STATISTICS Based on the past month's activity, 11 million hits annually for all files= =20 (including graphic files) Our most frequently requested index pages (some author home pages, all our= =20 links pages, Sound, Poetry Plastique, UBU/MP3s) get from 12,000 to 25,000=20 hits per year (with the overall hits for all files in these directories=20 going, from 15,000 to 225,000). Our most frequently requested individual=20 text pages get about 5000 hits per year. In the last month, we have had visitors from the following countries (in=20 order of traffic): Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, Portugal, France, Italy, Germany, United= =20 States, Netherlands, Japan, New Zealand, Belgium, Brazil, South Africa,=20 Poland, Turkey, Mexico, Israel, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Argentina,=20 Spain, Finland, Norway, Austria, Singapore, Hungary, Taiwan, Romania,=20 Russian Federation, Greece, Estonia, Czech Republic, Ireland, Philippines,= =20 Indonesia, Uruguay, Hong Kong, Croatia, Saudi Arabia, Peru, Yugoslavia,=20 India, Colombia, Chile, Malaysia, Ukraine, Thailand, Iceland, Venezuela,=20 Luxembourg, Guatemala, Zimbabwe, United Arab Emirates, Lithuania, Slovak=20 Republic, Slovenia, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, Malta, Trinidad and=20 Tobago, Cyprus, South Korea, Nepal, Pakistan, Cuba, Egypt, Former USSR,=20 Bulgaria, Sri Lanka, Lebanon, Ecuador, Latvia, Niue, Qatar, Albania,=20 Mauritius, Bermuda, Kyrgyzstan, Namibia, Saint Vincent & Grenadines,=20 Bahamas, Aruba, Belarus, China, Jamaica, Tanzania, Cocos Keeling Islands,=20 Madagascar, Paraguay, Brunei Darussalam, Fiji, Moldavia, Belize, Christmas= =20 Island, Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Zambia,=20 Bosnia-Herzegovina, Cambodia, Mozambique, Panama, Syria (Note the range of hits goes from the top few, with over 200,000 file=20 requests per year, to the last dozen, with perhaps only a few requests per= =20 month) Loss Peque=F1o Glazier Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:07:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: all u can eunoia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" "...Yes, that's right -- food with only one fifth of the vowels, but five times the flavour! The superlative chefs at Bar Italia have concocted a five-course dinner that sings along with Eunoia, and you can be a part of it! Both meat (fresh tender beef) and veggie (three-cheese-blend penne) meals are available..." this is SO KEWEL!!! can you post the whole menu for us? i'll be feasting vicariously. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:00:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Currently I would recommend Mr. Lift out of NYC. I cannot remember the Album's name, but it is not playing on radios up here. I heard about it from friends. In terms of MCs who might deserve more praise than Eminem, how about GZA from Wu-Tang? Ian VanHeusen >From: David Hadbawnik >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem >Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:16:51 -0700 > >Well, there was also that much-anticipated Weird >Al Yankovich parody that Eminem killed at the last >moment -- I'm sure that would have been great! > >I have to admit to some of the same initial >antipathy towards Eminem expressed by Steve; but >then I popped on my roommate's CD one day and >discovered that yes, in fact, the kid is quite >talented. To me the hook is not the thug pose or >even the storytelling, but the inventive things >he's able to do with "feminine" (multi-syllable) >rhymes... although they're not always perfect, in >fact rarely so, what they lack in exact rhyme they >make up for in sheer numbers and ingenuity. > >Now it's quite possible, as Jerrold pointed out, >that there have been/are much better rappers and >rhymers out there in the world of hip hop; but if >that's the case, I haven't heard them, because >they haven't pierced the mainstream the way Eminem >has. I haven't listened to rap in many years. Of >course that was the way with Elvis back then -- he >exposed a lot of people to a type of music that >they otherwise wouldn't have heard, because he was >white, and acceptable (albeit barely) to the white >mainstream. But I'll still take Eminem, who at >least presents the genuine article, over a >no-talented poser like Kid Rock, who also hails >from the Detroit area. > >David > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of >Gwyn McVay >Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:15 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem > > >I think my favorite thing about Eminem is not his >own song, but a parody >of "Slim Shady" that goes "I'm Greg Brady, I'm the >real Greg Brady" -- >performed by Barry Williams, the real Greg Brady. >I don't know if it's >still on his website, www.barrywilliams.com, but >it's damn funny and just >pokes a huge hole in the Eminem ego-image-monster. > >Gwyn > >--- >"Nobody gets paid for being a poemer." > -- Bucky the cat, "Get Fuzzy," 6/30/03 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:16:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria: Yours seems a good approach. It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the stakes are much higher. However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the convention the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to the left in foreign policy. -Joel W. > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, i.e. > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still make a > difference. > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew out of there, > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, of the > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be running > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the strongest > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign policy, but first > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage already, wait > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention to the > >people at all! > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > >> > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture has > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis Kucinich. > >> > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich for > >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who are too > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole political > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, but > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and bravery who > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food laws and > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the interests of > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the greed > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > >> > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this is > >> >more about getting involved with America than with politics. I > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be doing > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do concerts to > >> >benefit the campaign." > >> > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the views of > >> >any organization.) > >> > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the support of a > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > >> > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, momentum > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we increase our > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and fundraising. > >> > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many candidates > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see why > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > >> >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > >> > > >> > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > >> > >> >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 7 > >8276&partid=3170658> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >> > >> > >> -- > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:18:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: visas and touring artists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This came to me through one of the music lists I'm on. It's not entirely relevant to the poetics list, since so many writers are able to travel through the US as tourists without work permits (though that situation has obviously gotten worse as well) but heck, the article is written by a poet and it has to do with the increasing difficulty of international culture getting into the US, so it fits right into some of the ongoing discussions: http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/music/other_stories/documents/02985785.h= tm Isolation blues Could perpetual war cut us off from world music? BY DAMON KRUKOWSKI Last March, one of the biggest stars of African pop music, Youssou N'Dour, cancelled a 38-date tour of North America to protest the US government's policies toward Iraq. The singer said, in a press release: "I believe that coming to America at this time would be perceived in many parts of the world - rightly or wrongly - as support for this policy, and that, as a consequence, it is inappropriate to perform in the US at this juncture." As any fan of African music here in the United States will recognize, the cancellation of a Youssou N'Dour performance is more than the loss of an evening of great music - it's a lost opportunity for members of our own communities to discover one another. The "world music" concerts here in Boston draw crowds unlike any other in town; the mix of cultures represented by the events is mirrored by a mix of people in the audience who might otherwise never gather in the same room, though they live in the same city. "It's travel without an airplane ticket," is how Phoenix contributor Banning Eyre, author of In Griot Time, a memoir of his musical apprenticeship in Mali, describes the experience of watching African musicians perform here in the US, in the company of those to whom this same artist means home. "When you can be in the presence of a cultural audience interacting with a beloved musical act, there's nothing like it - it's an enriching experience in terms of sense of place." A performance last January by the Angolan singer Bonga at the Somerville Theatre was exactly that. I had gone for the music, which was as thrilling as I had hoped (Bonga has one of the most powerfully moving voices on the planet). But among the marvels of the evening for me was that the Lusophone crowd - with its origins in Angola, Cape Verde, and East Cambridge - represented neighbors I hadn't before had the occasion to meet. As they bantered with Bonga in Portuguese, as they clapped knowingly on the downbeat rather than the backbeat, as they whistled in anticipatory counterpoint to the band's semba rhythms, they announced their own collective presence, in Boston, to one another and to everyone else who had assembled that night in Davis Square. In other words, if the USA becomes the new Sun City, isolationism as an international policy will contribute to our isolation from one another, here within our own patchwork culture. Boston, famously divided by neighborhood, uses the impetus from abroad - Bonga, Youssou N'Dour - to breach lines of race, class, and religion that too often divide us. What could be more American than an African-music concert in an Irish/Italian neighborhood? Remove these opportunities and before long we may no longer understand why such experiences are integral to our identity as Americans. "I feel so melancholic just thinking about how things were even two years ago - it was a golden age and we didn't know it," says Cindy Byram, independent publicist and a board member of the World Music Institute in New York City. Promoters of world music took freedom of travel for granted as they worked for more than a decade to develop audiences for this music. And since the early '90s, after the enormously successful tours of the great Sufi devotional singer Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, there has been an explosion of interest in world music in the US. Byram credits key promoters - in Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Washington as well as New York - with working slowly and steadily at cultivating their local audiences, until extensive tours could be undertaken for practitioners of music that previously would have been considered too esoteric. "A few companies built up enough of a circuit that people could trust their taste, and people wanted to be introduced to other music. For example, there are musicians from Iran who had never performed here other than to exclusively Persian audiences, in shows advertised only to the local Iranian audience. But for the last five or 10 years, we have started to see more of those acts sponsored by American arts organizations, for an American audience. And these were so successful - if you are picking the best musicians in a tradition, it translates." =46or Byram, this broadening of the audience for world music represents more than a commercial success (WMI, like many of the key world-music promoters around the country, is a nonprofit arts organization). "By building an audience, we were doing something that mattered - turning people on, expanding their boundaries, changing their world view. Worlds intersected, and everyone came out the better for it." Byram believes the "ethnic" audience for these acts benefitted as well: "People can be surprised to find that [other] Americans are interested - they are proud. It can make you value your own culture more, seeing it reflected back. They look around at intermission and are thrilled to see that their culture is speaking to more than their own community. It's a great energy. But now, we're back to the old publicist's joke: you can't get a world musician covered in the media unless we're bombing their country. We were past that!" At last count, nine WMI-sponsored tours had been cancelled as a result of the current political situation - from the Peking Opera to Gypsy singer Esma Redzepova. These cancellations eliminate a crucial tool that world-music promoters have used to develop their audiences: long-term planning. Some have been motivated by an artist's politics, like Youssou N'Dour's. But even more have been due to the visa issues that have developed in the wake of the US government's reaction to September 11. This problem hasn't been confined to world music: over the past year, visa delays or denials have been blamed for cancellations of US appearances by pianist Eliso Virsaladze, conductor Jaap van Zweden, the Jerusalem Quartet, the Artemis Quartet, and singer Henk Smit, among others. But for world-music promoters, bureaucratic visa delays have been compounded by what some assert is prejudicial treatment of performers from Islamic countries. Dawn Elder, manager and producer of world-music acts from the Middle East and North Africa, says that as the war in Iraq loomed, the expediting service she used to process visa applications suddenly raised its fees for applications originating in the Arab world from $1500 to $20,000. "I'm pretty tenacious . . . I've never had a visa turned down," says Elder, who in the face of recent events even managed to promote a US tour by Iraqi musician Kazem al Sahir. But obviously $20,000 per visa wasn't going to happen. "The visa issue was looking pretty dismal," she admits. Then she met a sympathetic immigration lawyer, Brian Goldstein, at a meeting of the American Performing Arts Association. Goldstein's law firm now processes applications for her, and though the fee for its services has increased tour overhead, she's been able to continue to bring Arab musicians into the country. And if the musicians themselves are reluctant to come to the US? "I have been known to get on a plane, go to their door, and hold their hand on the plane [back] to get them here," she says. "Artists have said to me that if they come here, they feel they might be showing support for war. I argue that it is now more important than ever for them to tour, because through music you can create a very special dialogue. Music is one of the best forms of communication - to understand there's more to the people and cultures of these different countries than what you see generally on the news." Elder cites a performance in Chicago shortly after September 11 by Simon Shaheen, the Palestinian violinist and oud player, as particularly powerful; the tears that night were not of rage but of hope. "The end result is that musicians bring their communities together. It's what keeps me going and keeps the artists coming. We're not going to stop." Not every musician is managed by Dawn Elder, however. And even her tenacity has not managed to surmount every difficulty. In San =46rancisco, a venue owner simply cancelled the contract for a performance by an Arab musician (she scrambled and moved the show farther left, to Berkeley). And she notes that since September 11, she's been unable to include Boston on tours of her Arab acts. Banned in Boston? Maure Aronson, executive director of World Music, the leading Boston promoter of the genre, says there is no reluctance on his company's part to booking Arab music while acknowledging that World Music has promoted only one such performance since September 11. "It's supply and demand. We've never been at the forefront of promoting music from the Middle East; we might do only one concert a year. We're planning for next year a festival of sacred music - we hope to have musicians from Morocco for that - and a festival of Egyptian music." Whatever the reason, it's sad that since September 11, Boston has not had more opportunities for the kind of cultural encounter that concerts by Arab musicians can facilitate. And if the Bush Administration has its way, these cultural lacunae will broaden, until no one notices what's missing anymore. The world beyond our borders will begin to look like an undifferentiated alien mass. And so will our neighbors. Jordi Savall, the Spanish virtuoso of the viola da gamba, cancelled this spring's North American tour of his influential early-music group Hesperion XXI, which was to include a local stop in April under the auspices of the Boston Early Music Festival, because, as the promoter put it in a press release, "Mr. Savall feels that under the current situation, he and others in the ensemble have a strong moral dilemma about touring the United States." Hesperion XXI specializes in music from Spain's "golden age," that is, before the expulsion of the Moors in 1480 and the Jews in 1492. Savall is passionate about what was lost in the expulsion - a few years ago he titled a Hesperion XXI tour "Paradise Lost" because it featured medi=E6val Sephardic, Arabic, and Christian melodies. "These three civilizations have lived together," he explained when asked about the title at the time. "This was a paradise. If you could put the three back together, it would again be a paradise." Issue Date: July 4 - July 10, 2003 -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 =46ort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:38:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Without trying to get overly academic on Mr. M/Shady/Mathers I've always placed him in a context of "portraying personas" a la any number of poets (pick the lineage that pleases you here), as kind of a generative device more than a marketing ploy. (Not saying that his output isn't marketed as all hell, obviously.) You gotta add "Stan" to that persona list -- definitely a generative device, all the moreso cuz of it's one-off use? Other than character creation though, you gotta give him points for his sense of rhyme which is just miles beyond so many of his peers. I don't know who it was who said it, but "he makes words rhyme that just shouldn't rhyme." And for those who say he's just out to disturb... I think you should add "amuse" and "exert dominance" to his bag of tricks. Ravi, where's Chuck D on that list? jamie.gp ....ravi said........... Nearly a year ago, there was an article in the New Yorker, I think, that dissected the three-pronged persona of Eminem (Slim Shady, the misogynistic, homophobic thug; Eminem, the platinum-record selling superstar; and Marshall Mathers, the bemused Detroit kid behind it all, taken aback by the fame) as a marketing ploy par extradonaire, a vehicle that allowed M simultaneously to cause controversy and to distance himself from the views that caused the controversy, raising record sales while remaining immune to his critics' rancor. Perhaps that's so, and having heard him freestyle, I have to give him props as a MC. But he doesn't have the verbal pyrotechnics of a number of other rappers in my estimation. Here's a list of five rappers (with an indicative lyric) off the top of my head who'd do better with the appellation of poet than Eminem does: -Mos Def I seen her on the ave, spotted her more than once Ass so fat that you could see it from the front -Nas Bus stop glass bursts, a fiend drops his Heineken Ricocheting between the spots that I'm hidin in -Talib Kweli (of Black Star) Makin wack rappers go and merc the set Better off behind a desk tryin to surf the net Adament, worse than boric acid in your project cabinet -Q-Tip (of Tribe Called Quest) So sit and anylze this lyrical spray Cause all it really is word play -and of course, the brilliant, fatally flawed, ultimately doomed, Notorious BIG: Excuse me, flows just go through me Like trees to branches, cliffs to avalanches. -RS Ravi Shankar ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com Jamie Gaughran-Perez _______________________________ Office: 202 625 1352 x244 Cell: 202 277 6735 AKQA 3255 Grace Street, NW Washington, DC 20007 http://www.akqa.com Confidentiality notice: The information transmitted in this email and/or any attached document(s) is confidential and intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:12:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support In-Reply-To: <004701c34176$1f6a1c60$acfdfc83@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it's time we stopped blaming Nader for the results of the last election. More likely suspects: registered Democrats who didn't bother to vote. Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { Maria: { { Yours seems a good approach. { It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the stakes are { much higher. { However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the convention { the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to the left in { foreign policy. { { -Joel W. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:13:52 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of elected officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual citizen become outdated? I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this list again. I do want to point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are fueling the fear fire as a means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the latest polls. As long as they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean it, as we're witnessing. What wins undecided voters is respect for the candidate, & nobody really respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand accountability from their own party, the vote will be split again & again. If we don't support progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's election, we deserve what we get. Maria: > > Yours seems a good approach. > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the stakes are > much higher. > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the convention > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to the left in > foreign policy. > > -Joel W. > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, i.e. > > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still make a > > difference. > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew out of > there, > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, of the > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be running > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the strongest > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign policy, but > first > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage already, > wait > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention to the > > >people at all! > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > >> > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture has > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis Kucinich. > > >> > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich for > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who are too > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole political > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, but > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and bravery who > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food laws and > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the interests of > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the greed > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > >> > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this is > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with politics. I > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be doing > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do concerts to > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > >> > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the views of > > >> >any organization.) > > >> > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the support of a > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > > >> > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, momentum > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we increase our > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and fundraising. > > >> > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many candidates > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see why > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > >> >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > >> > > > >> 3 > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > 7 > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > > > > > -- --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:38:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The alternative, however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten Commandments will take the place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh all the way to his next war. Joel W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Sherlock" To: Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of elected > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual citizen become > outdated? > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this list again. I do want to > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are fueling the fear fire as a > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the latest polls. As long as > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean it, as we're witnessing. > What wins undecided voters is respect for the candidate, & nobody really > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand accountability > from their own party, the vote will be split again & again. If we don't support > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's election, we > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the stakes are > > much higher. > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the convention > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to the left in > > foreign policy. > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, i.e. > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still make a > > > difference. > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew out of > > there, > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, of the > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be running > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the strongest > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign policy, but > > first > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage already, > > wait > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention to the > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > >> > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture has > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis Kucinich. > > > >> > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich for > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who are too > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole political > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, but > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and bravery who > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food laws and > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the interests of > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the greed > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > >> > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this is > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with politics. I > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be doing > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do concerts to > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > >> > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the views of > > > >> >any organization.) > > > >> > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the support of a > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > > > >> > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, momentum > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we increase our > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and fundraising. > > > >> > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many candidates > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see why > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > >> >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > >> > > > > > >> > 3 > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > > 7 > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:44:55 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who couldn't win in 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm saying this- again. A year & a half before the election, you have already decided that a progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is what you're told. You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. You're that scared? Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A candidate lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL NOT win in 2004. There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve what you get. I'll pray for you now, my friend. Frank > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The alternative, > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten Commandments will take the > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh all the way to his > next war. > > Joel W. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Sherlock" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of elected > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual citizen > become > > outdated? > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this list again. I do > want to > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are fueling the fear fire as > a > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the latest polls. As long > as > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean it, as we're > witnessing. > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the candidate, & nobody really > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand > accountability > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & again. If we don't > support > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's election, we > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the stakes > are > > > much higher. > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the > convention > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to the > left in > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, i.e. > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still make a > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew out of > > > there, > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, of the > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be > running > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the strongest > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign policy, but > > > first > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage already, > > > wait > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention to > the > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > >> > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture has > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis Kucinich. > > > > >> > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich for > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who are > too > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole > political > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, but > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and bravery > who > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food laws > and > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the interests > of > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the > greed > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > >> > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this > is > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with politics. I > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be > doing > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do concerts > to > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > >> > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the views > of > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > >> > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the support of > a > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > > > > >> > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, momentum > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we increase > our > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and > fundraising. > > > > >> > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many > candidates > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see why > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > >> > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > 3 > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > > > 7 > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:32:59 -0400 Reply-To: info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITEBOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: White Box Subject: THE WILD BUNCH presented by White Box at THE ANNEX Opens 7/3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TIM ROLLINS THE WILD BUNCH Presented by White Box Organized by Tairone Bastien July 3 - August 2, 2003 Opening reception: Thursday July 3, 6-8 PM The Annex 601 West 26th Street, 14th Floor The Wild Bunch gets its name from the practice of "wilding," a spontaneous outburst of uncontrolled and aggressive behavior. Common in the 80's, wilding was born out of what many considered a political and economic crisis; it embodied a growing disregard for social conventions viewed as hypocritical by disenfranchised and alienated youth. Working on a national scale as a teacher for over two decades, Tim Rollins has harnessed the spirit of wilding, transforming it into a productive and socially creative force for hundreds of young artists throughout the U.S. The work of Rollins' current and former students acknowledges an anti-art tradition that originates in Dada and extends through the practices of Pop, Arte Povera, Process Art, Graffiti and Hip-Hop. The work is often resistant to fixed positions, solid identities and cultivation. Instead this art celebrates perpetual flux, strangeness, improvisation, unconventional materials, anarchistic ordering systems and a delight in the careful construction of serious nonsense made in response to an increasingly out-of-control world. The Wild Bunch will be an unstable exhibition with works and actions unpredictably added, subtracted or altered throughout the month of July. Invited artists: Nelson Savinon / Robert Branch / Adam DeCroix, / Miguel Castillo / Daniel Castillo / Ala Ebtekar / Adam Lister / James Werth / Eddie Alvarado / Emanuel Carvajal / Angel Abreu / Jorge Abreu / Ryan Rivera / Ben Erickson / Nikolaos Vlahos / Carlos Carrillo / Michael Millie / Erica Morales / James Wells / Paula Bollers / Oneil Edwards / Jeff Sonhouse / Chong Lee / Roshani Thakore / Bo Offenbaker / Yunsook Park / Andrea Taomina / Kim Bawadi / Jeff Hickey / Damon Hege / Guy Rozenstrich / Alexander Acosta-Cohen / Carlos deVillasante / Cedric Constant / Roberto Castillo / Damon Freed / Nicole Franklin / Joseph Lozano / Dana Orland / Jeff Sonhouse (list is in constant flux...) THE ANNEX 601 West 26th Street, 14th Floor New York, NY 10001 tel 646-638-3785 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:03:02 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FW: * Please circulate widely * Comments: To: ImitaPo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * Please circulate widely * MASS WORLDWIDE PROTEST DURING THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION IN NEW YORK CITY: SUNDAY, AUGUST 29, 2004 In the last three years, George W. Bush has presided over a radical right-wing takeover of the U.S. government whose ramifications have been felt all over the world. Not only has he waged two wars, killing thousands of innocent people, during his short time in office, but he has also implemented a policy of pre-emptive war that violates international law and threatens global security. On the home front, unemployment soars, the federal budget deficit swells into the billions, and states prepare to slash funding for everything from healthcare to education, yet Bush responded with two huge tax cut that will primarily benefit the wealthy rather than the people who are most in need. On every issue - from environmental regulations and international treaty participation to worker rights, civil rights and civil liberties - George W. Bush has pushed for unprecedented and destructive changes in U.S. foreign and domestic policy that even more sharply favor corporations and the wealthy, especially Bush Administration supporters at the expense of the people of the world and our environment. Meanwhile, the Bush Administration shamelessly uses the tragic attacks of September 11, 2001 to justify its aggressive and militaristic policies. In its most recent attempt to exploit the grief and fear that were provoked after September 11, the Republican Party pushed back its 2004 convention to August 28 - September 2, 2004 and will hold it in New York City, not far from Ground Zero. SAVE THE DATE: ON AUGUST 29, 2004, THE WORLD SAYS NO TO BUSH On February 15, 2003, millions of people all over the world took to the streets in protest with the message The World Says No to War. On August 29, 2004, we will come together in New York City and in cities throughout the world to say The World Says No to Bush! We are also organizing a protest for Thursday, Sept. 2, 2004, the day of Bush's official selection as the presidential candidate of the Republican Party. Initiated by United for Peace and Justice (http://www.unitedforpeace.org ), a U.S. anti-war coalition with more than 600 member groups. UFPJ looks forward to working with many other organizations on this day of protest, so please contact us at info@unitedforpeace.org if your group wants to work collaboratively on these actions and to let us know about other actions being planned to coincide with the Republican Convention. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:44:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: #0001 magnum opus excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #0001 magnum opus excerpt Life, which is Life, which is her hips up to meet must be protected must be protected things beautifully. her hips up to meet her hips up to meet Life, which is behold!' But the identical with identical with looks in vain for a sight of her he sight of her he into anything she looks in vain for a looks in vain for a identical with and her name was existence itself, is existence itself, is Army capable of deliverly fled deliverly fled the side porch, but Army capable of Army capable of existence itself, is could think was how intelligence, intelligence, you." "You are going your eyes on the your eyes on the had brought you." "You are going you." "You are going intelligence, General had entirely sympathetic entirely sympathetic have liked, now, and the shadows and the shadows have liked, now, have liked, now, entirely sympathetic quite a while, ("to understand all, ("to understand all, ice, and have not seen this have not seen this "he would be a ice, and ice, and ("to understand all, aside to allow her august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:18:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: hello MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear writers, i just wanted to tell you a couple of new things about the m.a.g. and about my work - i met a wonderful young poet who is 19 and is from nova scotia - she is going to co-edit a student writing department in the m.a.g. - we are going to call it "next-generation" - i think like 30 submissions came in this morning already then a very fine man and writer from armenia is heading an armenian department in the m.a.g. - he is planning to move to new york in the near future to attend nyu or ccny so much work came from australia and bulgaria that i am going to present the work from both countries in two-part special features - the writers from both countries are extraordinary in my opinion the iranian editors are two very fine people - charles is friends with one of them - i admire them very much - we are continuing an iranian department in the m.a.g. i have been asked to be inteviewed about my own work by editors in several european countries - it is synchronistic because it comes at a time when i am about to begin selling my own work and i have just asked a few writers i know here if they would be interested in interviewing me or writing an article about my work to help me to promote my work i have a great editorial intern now who is 19 and his energy level is radical - he is on the crew team at the university here and is an english major undergraduate - stephen-paul martin is his professor - this is how we met - through stephen he is virtually assembling the entire m.a.g. which allows me to respond to submissions quickly like i used to be able to and also to produce more of my own projects now i am looking for the right person to travel the alternative press book circuit to represent my work - this is a salary position of course and includes commission i didn't tell very many people about this but a few months ago i almost suffered a heart attack and had to be rushed to the er - but at the last minute i told my wife to take me instead to see our alternative health practitioner - he administered emergency alternative treatment including massage acupuncture nurtritional supplements and homeopathy - he then put me on a three-month protocol of nutritional supplements and colustrum and regular acupuncture treatments i am one-hundred percent recovered now the crisis happened of course because the muse apprentice guild was growing so fast and i was still managing it all alone - this is why i finally relinquished total control and succumbed to asking stephen to help me find an intern stephen-paul martin and harry polkinhorn are the board members of the muse apprentice guild - i think harry is one of the greatest living writers - he is also probably one of the most intelligent men i have ever met - he is in a class of his own - a real master i have become close friends with mel freilicher too - we have lunch together often - he is very sweet and sensitive and so is his partner - mel is writing a short memoir about kathy acker for the m.a.g. - mel and kathy were soulmates - they were like siblings i would be honored to meet any one on the poetics list if any of you ever travel to san diego - i don't travel because i have a 5-year-old and she comes first sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:17:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: help with a quote In-Reply-To: <200307031945.h63JjCAH009211@kaneda.boo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I need francophonic help: A couple of years ago (when I was in France and could read and write a little better) I copied a French quote into my journal but without attribution. I don't know who wrote it; I don't know what it means. But I know it was important to me once. Any help on either question Kazim-2003 and Kazim-2000 will both appreciate... Here's the quote “La poesie…n’y a pas de poetes mas un poet, toujours le meme, du commencement j’usqu’a la fin du monde, une force qui revét les coleurs des temps, des tribes, des pays, des langages, des visages donnés, elle s’écoule entre les rives qui la bordent comme un fleuve, sous tels cieux ou tels autres, sur tels fonds ou tels autres.” ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:31:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the covenant of the final remnant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the covenant of the final remnant obliteration of organism and signal by plasma inconceivable distances of empty space throttling and virtualities within empty spaces obtrusions and defensive coordinates among lives facing catastrophies of the inevitable nothing of remnant remaining the covenant of the final remnant dispersion of the final remnant and purity and impurity and good and evil - for such is the way of the truth of annihilation within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade those lines are entirely effaced or you shove your cock into my tight cunt forever - among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity cold and strung-out energy and matter - forgetting separation of justices and injustices - codices of empty demarcations already fading - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! the covenant of the final remnant welcome to panix the covenant of the final remnant obliteration of organism and signal by plasma. dispersion of the final remnant and its dissipation among forgotten languagings desperately attempting division among purity and impurity and good and evil - of which there shall be no offspring and there shall be no offspring and no fornication within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade those lines are entirely effaced or you shove your cock into my tight cunt forever - among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity when nothing shall prevent catastrophe or disappearance among the shuddering of not both this and that - we have been given wisdom and understanding on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - boiling from quarks strings dark matters of the soul - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! inconceivable distances of empty space. dispersion of the final remnant and its dissipation among forgotten languagings fissured against itself this covenant desperately attempting division among purity and impurity and good and evil - of which there shall be no offspring and within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade those lines are entirely effaced or you shove your cock into my tight cunt forever - among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity when nothing shall prevent catastrophe or disappearance we have been given wisdom and understanding on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - forgetting separation of justices and injustices - boiling from quarks strings dark matters of the soul - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! throttling and virtualities within empty spaces. dispersion of the final remnant and fissured against itself this covenant desperately attempting division among purity and impurity and good and evil - there shall be no offspring and no fornication for such is the way of the truth of annihilation within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade those lines are entirely effaced or you shove your cock into my tight cunt forever - among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity when nothing shall prevent catastrophe or disappearance among the shuddering of not both this and that - we have been given wisdom and understanding on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - cold and strung-out energy and matter - forgetting separation of justices and injustices - codices of empty demarcations already fading - boiling from quarks strings dark matters of the soul - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! obtrusions and defensive coordinates among lives. dispersion of the final remnant and its dissipation among forgotten languagings fissured against itself this covenant desperately attempting division among purity and impurity and good and evil - of which there shall be no offspring and there shall be no offspring and no fornication within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade those lines are entirely effaced or you shove your cock into my tight cunt forever - among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity among the shuddering of not both this and that - we have been given wisdom and understanding on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - cold and strung-out energy and matter - forgetting separation of justices and injustices - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! facing catastrophies of the inevitable. dispersion of the final remnant and its dissipation among forgotten languagings fissured against itself this covenant purity and impurity and good and evil - of which there shall be no offspring and there shall be no offspring and no fornication for such is the way of the truth of annihilation within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade those lines are entirely effaced or among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity when nothing shall prevent catastrophe or disappearance among the shuddering of not both this and that - we have been given wisdom and understanding on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - forgetting separation of justices and injustices - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! nothing of remnant remaining. dispersion of the final remnant and purity and impurity and good and evil - of which there shall be no offspring and there shall be no offspring and no fornication for such is the way of the truth of annihilation within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade you shove your cock into my tight cunt forever - among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity among the shuddering of not both this and that - on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! the covenant of the final remnant the covenant of the final remnant awk: fatal: can't open source file "back" for reading (No such file or dispersion of the final remnant and its dissipation among forgotten languagings fissured against itself this covenant desperately attempting division among purity and impurity and good and evil - of which there shall be no offspring and there shall be no offspring and no fornication for such is the way of the truth of annihilation within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade of graphemes and alphabets all inscriptive devices - those lines are entirely effaced or among the leaders and disciples who can testify and who can sing the praises of resolute deity when nothing shall prevent catastrophe or disappearance among the shuddering of not both this and that - we have been given wisdom and understanding on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - cold and strung-out energy and matter - codices of empty demarcations already fading - the covenant of the final remnant - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! directory) fissured against itself this covenant desperately attempting division among purity and impurity and good and evil - within inconceivable temperatures of trillions centigrade and who can sing the praises of resolute deity among the shuddering of not both this and that - on the knife-blade edge of all disappearance - boiling from quarks strings dark matters of the soul - untethering the witnesses! untethering languagings! no more! no more! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:54:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Kucinich is Not what he appears In-Reply-To: <200307031945.h63JjCAH009211@kaneda.boo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis Kucinich is not what he appears. He was until June of last year Anti-Abortion he has always been pro-labor but he came at it for most of his career as a white ethnic Catholic midwesterner, not as a "progressive"in the sense of those who post on this list serv. He is also Anti-Globalization which is at best a mixed set of values since while things are not perfect we cannot very well close the doors to the world can we? I think that progressive candidates miss the point of winning elections. Middle Class people those who make between 25,000-75,000 a year are under incredible duress in this country they cannot even take vacations because of fear of being pushed out of jobs, many people's so called high tech jobs are being outsourced to Asia and many people are over extended creditwise, also and I think this is important people over 45 cannot get health insurance if they lose their jobs and many are being bankrupted by small medical emergencies. We do not need shrill answers to these problems (which Kucinich provides). What we need is someone who actually can speak to these people since those of us who read poetry listservs are a very small part of the population. Unfortunately the only politicians who could speak to these people successfully in the past 30 years were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton and look where that got us? A Democrat who ran on some key issues could win, 1) A real healthcare safety net that covers everyone removing that fear of financial ruin 2) Time, most American have no time to take care of kids, take vacations or anything else a candidate who said I will fight for your right to vacations and weekends without being forced to work overtime would have a great issue,Most working Americans work more than 60 hours a week (I know I do) and making this illegal would be a great issue 3) The fact that Bush is in bed not only with the Oil companies but with the Terrorist money providers and he lied to us(Saudi Arabia is one for Example) if a Democrat could run on these issues they would win, Instead however Democrats run on issues that make them look extreme because unfortunately in most of America right wing opinions are the majority opinion (outside of a few island of progressives) but these issues cut across class lines. RB > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Frank Sherlock > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:45 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who > couldn't win in > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm saying this- > again. > > A year & a half before the election, you have already decided that a > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is what > you're told. > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. > You're that scared? > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A candidate > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL NOT > win in 2004. > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve what you get. > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > Frank > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > alternative, > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten Commandments will take the > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh all the > way to his > > next war. > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept > of elected > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual citizen > > become > > > outdated? > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this list again. I do > > want to > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are fueling the > fear fire as > > a > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the latest > polls. As long > > as > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean it, as we're > > witnessing. > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the candidate, & > nobody really > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand > > accountability > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & again. > If we don't > > support > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's > election, we > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and > now the stakes > > are > > > > much higher. > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the > > convention > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to the > > left in > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, i.e. > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can > still make a > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking > Crew out of > > > > there, > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the > world, of the > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be > > running > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't > the strongest > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign > policy, but > > > > first > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done > damage already, > > > > wait > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay > attention to > > the > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and > culture has > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis > Kucinich. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis > Kucinich for > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland > Americans who are > > too > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole > > political > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > Washington, but > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience > and bravery > > who > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe > food laws > > and > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put > the interests > > of > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the > > greed > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in > politics, but this > > is > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with > politics. I > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be > > doing > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan > to do concerts > > to > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not > reflect the views > > of > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn > the support of > > a > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's > endorsement, momentum > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as > we increase > > our > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and > > fundraising. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many > > candidates > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. > To see why > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > >> > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> b/S=170507 > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Defaul > t?mqso=601 > > > > 7 > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:47:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: 'Experiential' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Does anyone know if Coleridge coined the word 'experiential' or, if not him, who did or how this word came about? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:19:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Re: Kucinich is Not what he appears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I might love to argue with you Haas, and maybe a few months or so down the line, there will be some wonderful development -- a latter day Ellsberg comes along and blows Emperor George out of the game, say -- but really I agree with most of what you say. (1)If he's not anti-Globalization, then he won't make it. Globalization may be ugly, but it's here to stay. Best off improving it, shoring up its defects, I suspect. (2)The Economy is the Key. Bush is turning the country into Chattel Slavery, somehow just too damn stupid to realize folks will eventually crucify him, or at least I want to believe that and strive for it. Ditto, that he's getting more and more vulnerable every day. I've spent two years reading, posting, and participating daily if not hourly on a Yahoo Finance stock board focusing on one of the really bad corporate scoundrels (Global Crossing). I've been "accepted" and liked there all along, though I've been openly "SocialMarxist/MonetaryAdamSmithian" (or whatever) and spoken out loudly and vulgarly against Bush throughout. "We" are essentially unanimously incensed by Bush now, and scores of fellow GXers announce regularly that they have been lifelong Republicans, but will never vote for him again. Bottom line? Bush Sr. is a member of the Carlyle Group, which is under Blackstone (Bankruptcy Advisors for Global Crossing), Perle is one of the creeps they've tried to get on their board of directors, Bush Jr. hasn't done a thing, Ashcroft and the DOJ haven't indicted a single GX exec, etcetera etcetera etcetera. Equals "the Govt. colluding with the perps," and together they're screwing the retail stockholders. There are similar numbers of disaffected shafted similarly by Exxon and Worldcom and Tyco and others, in all cases, shareholders ruined/devastated, the market a joke, and corruption abounds while Emperor Bush is out to lunch with Kissinger (also Global Crossing also sought) or Pitt or some other other buffoon crook and Clinton goes to the superbowl with Winnick or plays golf with same, ditto DNC's Terry McAuliffe. Anyway, there's a lot of staunch and lifelong Republicans and they're going to jump ship. And they're not Progressive. Plenty of bigots, anti-communists, Reagan lovers, and especially Evangelical Christians, but they're as angry as hell at Bush and he's going to lose them big. IMO, a Democrat that ran on revamping the country's corporate bankruptcy codes; ways of means of Wall Street, the Investment Banks, and the large Brokerage Houses; corporate malfeasance; and justice for retail shareholders and pension holders would win in a heartbeat, especially coupled with bright and shrewdly manipulated counter-point to Bush's militarism, which is also an economic issue is pursued intelligently. I was, myself, torn between Kucinich and Graham and Dean, anyone that originally against the war. I have written Lieberman and strongly requested he pull his middle-of-the-road campaign out of the game. Ditto Hillary, who hasn't done a damn thing for Global Crossing investors, though here in upstate New York is supposed to be her territory, but I'm convinced she and Bill and other "middle-of-the-road" Dems got their hands dirty, and, ummm, lotta anger there. My own money (literally $50.00 for now) is presently on Dean. Will change in a flash if need be to put anybody but Bush in, including Limp Lieberman or Long Shot Kucinich, if necessary, and personally I believe that Kerry will be the frontrunner, though he's no Nader, who'd be my ideal candidate. Anyway, I won't argue here about who's best. They're all politicians ('cept Nader), so they all suck is my cynical opinion, but none of them make "evil" a good candidate for re-introduction to the language like Bush Junior does. Last, my fingers are crossed that the "republicans" raped in the market and stripped of their retirement funds and despairing of job opportunities will throw the Carlyle Group's son and his American Enterprise Institute pseudo-"Straussian" cabal not only out of office but straight to jail. That's how angry a lot of the middle class is. There are some significant numbers of "us" who want blood. And, smile, yer average Evangelical Christian seeking revenge of their "trusted heroes" aren't real lenient. They'd want the death penalty. (They're already hungering to string up Winnick and Legere and others behind the Global Crossing redistribution of wealth. Me, too, ummm, of course, smile. Actually, there is not a day that goes by that my imagination doesn't entertain some dark thoughts). Blah blah blah JMHO (Just my humble/honest opinion, in stock forum parlance) Steve Tills Dennis Kucinich is not what he appears. He was until June of last year Anti-Abortion he has always been pro-labor but he came at it for most of his career as a white ethnic Catholic midwesterner, not as a "progressive"in the sense of those who post on this list serv. He is also Anti-Globalization which is at best a mixed set of values since while things are not perfect we cannot very well close the doors to the world can we? I think that progressive candidates miss the point of winning elections. Middle Class people those who make between 25,000-75,000 a year are under incredible duress in this country they cannot even take vacations because of fear of being pushed out of jobs, many people's so called high tech jobs are being outsourced to Asia and many people are over extended creditwise, also and I think this is important people over 45 cannot get health insurance if they lose their jobs and many are being bankrupted by small medical emergencies. We do not need shrill answers to these problems (which Kucinich provides). What we need is someone who actually can speak to these people since those of us who read poetry listservs are a very small part of the population. Unfortunately the only politicians who could speak to these people successfully in the past 30 years were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton and look where that got us? A Democrat who ran on some key issues could win, 1) A real healthcare safety net that covers everyone removing that fear of financial ruin 2) Time, most American have no time to take care of kids, take vacations or anything else a candidate who said I will fight for your right to vacations and weekends without being forced to work overtime would have a great issue,Most working Americans work more than 60 hours a week (I know I do) and making this illegal would be a great issue 3) The fact that Bush is in bed not only with the Oil companies but with the Terrorist money providers and he lied to us(Saudi Arabia is one for Example) if a Democrat could run on these issues they would win, Instead however Democrats run on issues that make them look extreme because unfortunately in most of America right wing opinions are the majority opinion (outside of a few island of progressives) but these issues cut across class lines. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:10:29 -0400 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: FULCRUM 2 AVAILABLE NOW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Derek R, experience the French word links to experiment. See de Montaigne and Mr. Bacon. Agamben has essay in early book on experience experiment + youth among other things, see his Infancy of History (but don't quote from Giorgio unless you are wearing Armani and able to weather accusations that may be hurled at you from the very fetid middenheap of the critics' den of DisOlympus - a scene by the way that was left out of Quest for Fire, but is crucial to any understanding of the 1980s - accused, that is, of being, today, too au fait with le snooty monde de philosophie and thinking anything French applies to anything really Truly Poetry). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:48:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: 2-4 Festival MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The envy in his remarks is astounding. Especially > the proposal to award the copy of Eterovich's Approaches > that I inscribed to Darren Wershler-Henry instead of > himself. Too true: "the temptation of ethics [is] to recontain itself by assigning hostile and more properly political impulses to the ultimate negative category of _ressentiment_" (Jameson, _Political Unc., 60). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:42:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Junction Press--come and get it! Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's a catalogue of current offerings from Junction Press. The usual 20%= =20 discount off retail for list members. Contact me for shipping costs--they=20 vary, obviously, depending on where you are and what books we're talking= about. Payment in US dollars, or UK (currency only), and, for Australians, for the= =20 next month only, Australian dollars (but must be received here by August 2,= =20 as I arrive in Australia the next day. Foreign currency at current=20 exchange rates. For Australians, I will deliver in person in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide,=20 Alice Springs and Darwin. Elsewhere I'll need to charge domestic postage.=20 Backchannel for details. junction press po box 40437 san diego ca 92164 phone & fax (619)282-0371 email junction@earthlink.net Harry Polkinhorn & Mark Weiss, editors Across the Line / Al otro lado: The Poetry of Baja California If you can=92t make it across the border, Across the Line/Al otro lado is= the=20 next best thing to a trip to Mexico=92s Baja California. The astonishing=20 range of fifty-three poetic voices, traditional native chants and popular=20 corridos which are generously presented in bilingual format is rooted in a= =20 time and place that is both timeless and in constant flux. The poems are by= =20 turns full of yearning, lyric, exultant, pungent, mournful, fast-paced as=20 the streets of Tijuana or slow as a cactus growing beyond the dunes. Baja=20 Californians are a population on the move, alive to change, living on the=20 edge, and the poetry in this lovingly-translated anthology conveys the feel= =20 of gritty towns and cities, burning deserts, lonely mountains, a huge sky=20 still crowded with stars, the wind blowing in off the Pacific or the Sea of= =20 Cortez, the nearness of gray whales and pelicans, the uncertainties of=20 isolation, the jittery rhythms of urban life, the United States forever=20 looming on the other side of the border. And I am happy to say that these=20 poets value the beauty and importance of Baja California=92s unique and=20 fragile ecosystems; in Baja California moonlight still=20 matters.=20 Homero Aridjis =93...a long-overdue eye-opener... Across the Line /Al otro lado should be= =20 required reading in our high schools and colleges. ...the poets...are=20 always interesting, and sometimes=20 astounding.=94=20 Luis Albert Urrea, The San Diego Union Tribune =93Across the Line / Al otro lado is an important addition to the growing=20 library of Mexican poetry available in bilingual edition. Polkinhorn and=20 Weiss have undertaken an enormous labor of love, and to a considerable=20 extent pull it off successfully.=94 Margaret=20 Randall, American Book Review =93With its deserts and mountains, Baja California has long been the wildest= =20 part of Mexico=92s sparsely populated north, and it was only recently=20 settled. Its border towns, Tijuana and Mexicali, have swollen to monstrous= =20 proportions, and, as evidenced by this remarkable new bilingual anthology,= =20 many of the region=92s poets explore the degradation of their urban border= =20 culture. (=91This city wounds like a fish bone stuck in our throats,=92= writes=20 Jos=E9 Javier Villarreal.) Yet while some poets focus on the sordid aspects= =20 of border life, others see =91the spiny haughtiness of the cacti/ wrapped in= =20 their green and bitter silence=92(Raul Antonio Cota) or hear =91the= reptile=92s=20 arid purr sweeping the skin of the desert=92(Elizabeth Algr=E1vez).= Describing=20 a six-foot-tall tumbleweed that stops traffic in downtown Tijuana,=20 Heriberto Y=E9pez calls it a =91sly intimation/ of the desert=92s imminent= =20 return.=92 ...Broad-ranging and insightful, this is recommended for all=20 poetry and Spanish-language=20 collections.=94=20 Library Journal 382 pages perfectbound $25.00 ISBN 1-881523-13-6 Rochelle Owens New and Selected Poems 1961-1996 =93In its uncompromising savagery, its passionate rejection of=20 sentimentality, Rochelle Owens=92 lyric voice is unique among contemporary= =20 poets. An astonishing body of=20 work.=94=20 Marjorie Perloff =93For more than 35 years Rochelle Owens has been at the center of America= =92s=20 avant-garde. Well-known for her plays, which have won five Obies, she is a= =20 poet first and foremost. Her work is all about voice and voices. She can=20 bring John Wayne and Catherine the Great into the same poem, invoke Marx=20 and Stalin, and balance lines with W.C.Williams and W.C. Fields and Mona=20 Lisa and Leonardo. It is perhaps the unidentified and unrecognized voices,= =20 though, that have the most say. From the perspective of invisibility and=20 anonymity Owens exposes the real world, the natural and the unnatural.=20 There=92s never a dull moment. Important for any large or modern poetry=20 collection.=94=20 Library Journal =93Think of it as a seance; think of it as a baptism in a molten vortex of= =20 words.=94=20 American Book Review 192 pages perfectbound $20.00 ISBN 1-881523-06-3 Rochelle Owens Luca: Discourse on Life and Death Rochelle Owens=92 writing, here as elsewhere, is sui generis. She is, in= many=20 ways, a proto-language poet... But Owens is angrier, more energetic, and=20 more assertive than most of her Language counterparts, ...and she presents= =20 herself as curiously non-introspective. Hers is a universe of stark=20 gesture, lightning flash, and uncompromising judgement: it is imperative,=20 in her poetic world, to face up to the horror, even as the point of view is= =20 flexible enough to avoid all dogmatism. Immensely learned, sophisticated, and witty in its conceits, this Discourse= =20 on Life and Death demands two kinds of reading. First, it should be read=20 through from beginning to end as if it were a novel... But a second reading is required to note the poem=92s microstructure=96its= =20 superb modulation of rhythms and internal rhymes, its ironies and=20 paradoxes. It is the layering of cultures and especially of myths,=20 including our own contemporary myths of the Great Creative Genius (always=20 male), creating beauty out of the detritus around him, that makes Luca so= =20 distinctive. Watch out, Owens seems to be saying, for those high-minded=20 claims and take another look at the evidence of actual life=96=94a stream of= =20 molten lava burning,=94 =93doses of nitrogen muscle saliva,=94 or even =93th= e=20 seams/ of a discarded wallet.=94 = from=20 Margery Perloff=92s introduction 220 pages perfectbound $20.00 ISBN 1-881523-12-8 Armand Schwerner Selected Shorter Poems =93Schwerner (1927-1999) was a maximalist, whose interest in anthropology= and=20 religion fueled a poetry that explored the very nature of civilization. The= =20 simultaneous publication of his lifelong project, The Tablets, and a=20 generous selection of shorter poems, most out of print, is likely to fix=20 his position among major postwar experimenters such as Robert Duncan, Louis= =20 Zukofsky, and Charles Olson, with whom he has been compared. In his shorter= =20 poems he draws on a =91wild spectrum=92 of sources=97Eskimo poetry,= Buddhism,=20 Zuni myths=97but frequently allows his playful sense of language to lighten= =20 the oracular load. Stuffed with enough puzzles to keep poetry readers and=20 scholars busy through the next century. Essential for all libraries with=20 substantial poetry=20 collections.=94=20 Library Journal =93Armand Schwerner has been one of the master poets of my time. What he=20 leaves us is a lifetime=92s work that stuns the imaginations of those who=20 hear him. The ancients called it =91wisdom poetry,=92 & I know of no=20 contemporary who has been more into its=20 practice.=94 Jerome Rothenberg 144 pages perfectbound $16.00 ISBN 1-881523-11-x Mervyn Taylor The Goat =93Taylor=92s New York poems comprise a roughly virtuosic series of=20 contemporary vignettes laced with apocalypse; they are attuned to the pain= =20 in all desire and the beauty in decay=97not unlike Lorca=92s explorations of= =20 the city. Beginning =91one of those nights/when the intersection is=20 crazy/with cars,=92 and moving swiftly through casual, but angst-tinged=20 observation=97Taylor=92s second collection portrays people on the economic= and=20 social fringes, from the =91Old Soldier in the Park=92 (=91his white hair=20 flying/against the green,/a bird out of formation=92) to the pathetic story= =20 of =91Sleepy,=92 about a mother who spots her son=92s face on a wanted= poster.=20 Finding no easy answers, yet never letting his lyrical and painterly gifts= =20 fly off into irrelevance, Taylor remains true to his desire to get his=20 world on paper, a world of New York and beyond that continues to be=20 inflected by his Trinidadian roots: =91He feels for a taste/of his own= flesh,=20 he can smell it all the time,/cooking in the curry of a human=20 dream.=92=94=20 Publishers Weekly =93Taylor is a wary technician, even a cunning one. He works in taut meters= =20 that want to cohere the pressures of the casual. Mervyn Taylor is an honest= =20 poet, and that is high and sufficient praise=20 indeed.=94=20 Derek Walcott 96 pages perfectbound $11.00 ISBN 1-881523-10-1 Mark Weiss Fieldnotes =93In the world of these poems the ground is never steady. There is the= sense=20 at every moment that the poet=92s attention may turn, to incorporate the=20 unexpected detail, the wayward reflection, and thus transform our reading=20 of the whole. By drawing on a variety of poetic techniques, Weiss grants=20 none sovereignty: discernible in the mix are an Objectivist-like precision= =20 for registering the external world, a receptivity to chance events,=20 occasional intimate confessions, nuanced repetitions, even snippets of=20 nature poetry. Rather, these are works of assemblage, of delicate tensions= =20 and juxtapositions, the disparate parts ringing sympathetically. To consider the poems as artifacts implies a process of discovery,=20 unearthing not only man-made objects but hidden connections=97less to the=20 past, in this case, than between self and world as negotiated through=20 language. The rhythm of the interval rules here, the possibility that the=20 poem may find new openings with each breath. These openings, Weiss=20 suggests, are all about us but they must be approached with care, for an=20 excess of purpose may easily blind us to them. It is the junctures he seeks with these poems, that space in which the=20 wonder=20 occurs.=94 = Sulfur 96 pages perfectbound $11.00 ISBN 1-881523-04-7 Luisa Futoransky The Duration of the Voyage =93An exile with a deep nostalgia for a coherent past, Futoransky is=20 paradoxically at home in a world of fluid, sometimes tormented global=20 identities. Born in Buenos Aires, Futoransky, who writes in Spanish, has=20 lived in Israel, Japan, China, Spain and elsewhere in Europe. In her first= =20 English-language collection she exhibits a magical-realist fecundity that=20 transforms itself to suit each new locale. In =91To Trujillo, with Love=92= she=20 finds =91virgins showing off/little artichokes/like delightful trophies of= =20 their majesty.=92 Paris, where she has lived since 1981, offers a sparser= set=20 of poetic anchors. =91Insomnia on the Rue de Charenton=92 is a list of =91th= e=20 friendly noises that unknown inhabitants offer me.=92 A long prose-poem=20 entitled =91Jerusa, My Love=92 tracks =91the injustices/the stratifications,= the=20 wells=92 of Israel=92s metropolis. Other prose-poems allow Futoransky to= plumb=20 her store of memories, Jewish mysticism and astringent self-reflections.=20 =91The wandering jew sets off with her knapsack of baubles and trinkets,=92= =20 reports the speaker of =91End of the Poem,=92 proceeding on a journey= through=20 which =91I shall forget...all the tongues and moans and mirages and=20 backwaters and I shall move no more.=92 Beautifully translated from the=20 Spanish provided en=20 face.=94=20 Publishers Weekly 96 pages perfectbound $11.00 ISBN 1-881523-07-1 Stephen Vincent Walking =93There is a sparseness and alchemy reminiscent of Oppen: =91Movement=20 varies/meaning./Fact follows function.=92 There are rich sequences of= pointed=20 yet cropped dialogue as we feel the book arriving in the last section at=20 its own mythology, one of children, love, sexuality and mystery. This is a= =20 serious book of poetry by a serious poet who truly walks among=20 us.=94=20 Cups =93Walking has an extraordinary power stemming from the skillful combination= =20 of mythic subject matter and a postmodern questioning of language, meaning,= =20 and syntax. Quite a balancing act, but Vincent pulls it off. The title=20 poem, tour de force that it is, sends us off into the fragmented streets,=20 conversations, and hearts of America. Walking is a fine book. Coming out of= =20 the Olson-Creeley tradition, Vincent has evolved a style uniquely his=20 own.=94=20 Small Press =93Walking comes from times and places that still see people as primary and= =20 the means by which they can live, the common need. Stephen Vincent is an=20 old hand who has learned the hard way and so can be trusted. His art moves= =20 variously, like his feet. Walking means what it=20 says.=94 Robert Creeley 80 pages perfectbound $9.00 ISBN 1-881523-05-5 Ira Beryl Brukner Questions, Short Poems,Water & Air =93In his fourth book of poems Ira Beryl Brukner gives us four sets of=20 quirky, funny, melancholy, and startlingly direct riffs on love, the birth= =20 of a son, the death of a father, and the deep questionings of daily life.=20 These are poems of disarming simplicity whose precisely-chosen detail=20 suggests landscapes and histories beyond words. And the good news here is=20 that the language swings, swings in places hard as good=20 jazz.=94 Quincy Troupe =93Wonderful.=94=20 New Hope International 80 pages perfectbound $11.00 ISBN 1-881523-08-x Richard Elman Cathedral-Tree-Train and other poems =93Much of this book concerns a young painter=92s suicide. In tender and= angry=20 poems, Elman questions the reasons for this waste of life and talent. Like= =20 an archaeologist he excavates his memories, examining them for clues to=20 understanding. That he does not, at last, understand seems the truest thing= =20 in these=20 poems.=94=20 Booklist =93Earnest, burly, elegant, passionate work. Elman is a serious character.= =20 There are many good books of poems but there are very few that have a=20 cultural resonance. This is an important book, =91a factory of=20 astonishments.=92=94=20 David R. Slavitt =93Richard Elman=92s long poem, =93Cathedral-Tree-Train,=94 is not= conventionally=20 poetic, but throughout its searching, melancholic length the heart of=20 poetry is here. An elegy, it is not so much against death as it is against= =20 failures and solitudes, and all the unanswerable questions of our world.=20 Altogether, Cathedral-Tree-Train is fraught, extreme, brave, and=20 beautiful.=94=20 Mary Oliver 72 pages perfectbound $9.00 ISBN 1-881523-03-9 Susie Mee The Undertaker=92s Daughter =93These poems have the luminosity and strangeness of dream, but never lose= =20 touch with the concrete world that initiated them. Though they often evoke= =20 raw pain and difficult desire, they are unfailingly rigorous and=20 coherent.=94=20 Hugh Seidman =93=91As you can see,/everything is neatly proportioned, nothing out of=20 place...=92 writes Susie Mee ironically in =91The Doll=92s House,=92 before= going=20 on to mention a few important exceptions. This is a good place to begin=20 looking at her poetry, which is lucid, spare and unsparing as it plunges=20 straight to the heart of things: that is, the order and disorder that make= =20 up a life, here tellingly held up to=20 scrutiny.=94 John Ashbery =93In precise, touching images, Mee shows that memory retains =91a furry=20 distance/from anything which is alive in a different way.=92 Beneath the=20 surface of these poems =91bright as hummingbirds,=92 =91shaped by the= mind/as=20 dough is shaped=92 there is a recognition of =91laughter=92 during a search= for=20 =91the true nature of disaster.=92 Mee has the courage to confront the =91sa= d,=20 broken charm=92 of burdens of=20 place.=94 Library= =20 Journal 80 pages perfectbound $9.00 ISBN 1-881523-01-2 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:02:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: MY MIND ON BUSH (READ ON) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE MY MIND ON BUSH (READ ON) Because of the fact that we cannot, absolutely cannot, analyze this hated fuhrer of ours any further (fuhrer-further), not even for a farthing (fuhrer-further-farthing), there remains only the possibility of an examination of the faring (fuhrer-further-farthing-faring) of our hatred for his forming (fuhrer-further-farthing-faring-forming) of the most violent furious (fuhrer-further-farthing-faring-forming-furious) regime this bloody country has been subjected to as long as I can remember. Our hatred knows no bindings or bounds; were it legal, I would hoist the man to toast his incarcerated body, held by a military tribunal, within its desiccated stockade. He was born barren. He is evil and believes - beeviles - in an evil god. He lives - evils - in an ugly world. His ugliness wears ours thin. He sleeps in his livery - evilry. We are bedeviled - bedeviled. He is vile - evil. He should not be alive - aevil. We are no longer lively - evilly. We are believed - bedevile - veiled - eviled - and dead. We are dead. NOW HERE IS MY MIND ON BUSH! (HONEST!): SHOULDER, JESUS SAYS ITS OK TO WHACK THEM WITHWE KNOW HES GOT THEM WEAPONS, BECAUSE BUSHS DADDY ANDSATAN, AND CERTAINLY NOT LIKE THE VILE CATHYLICKS, WHO FROM BLUSTER TO BOMBS: WILL BUSH WHACK IRAQ?;; THE LORDSIN THE EXISTENCE OF GOOD AND EVIL MIGHT WELLSOME OF THE PANEL MEMBERS SPEWED VILE ACCUSATIONS AND FROM BLUSTER TO BOMBS: WILL BUSH WHACK IRAQ?;; THE LORDSTHATS PRETTY MUCH WHAT PRESIDENT BUSH SAID ABOUTMUST THIS VILE WAR BETWEEN PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS AND OTHERS BEING REWARDED FOR PROTECTING THIS VILE BUT VERYOF THE STATE OF FLORIDA, JEB BUSH; THE FLORIDAWHEN I ANSWERED HE PROCEEDED TO WHACK MY KNEES AND WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO ... PRESIDENT BUSH JUST DIDWORK, AND SOME OF US WORRY ABOUT WALKING ALONE IN THE BRONX - THINK ABOUT THE EVIL VILE PEOPLE THAT WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTOTHINK THATLL BE THE FOCUS OF BUSHS SAUDI-DRIVEN SPEECH DELIVERED THIS WEEK (AND MAKE NO MISTAKE-THIS IS VILE ABUSE.) ITS MY COUNTRY HAS BECOME VILE AND INSUFFERABLE.CAUTIOUSLY LAUDATORY POST ABOUT HOW THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HASWITHOUT FURTHER ADO, JJ JOHNSONS WHACKEM STACK ABORTION OR WERE GOING TO WHACK HER. LINDAEVIL, ROTTEN, VILE MURDOCH THE SHOWDOWN BETWEEN SANDYSOME MAY SEE AS BOLSTERING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATIONS CLAIM THERE WAS THIS FIERY CART, A NASTY BUSH OR TWOTHE CART, HIS WORDS STAGGERED BETWEEN BREATHS, VILE...VINES...OFHOLD FORTH THE LANCE OF GOODNESS, WHACK HARD THE GO DELIVER A DARE, VILE DOG.FURTIVELY FROM BEHIND A BUSH, I SAW HIMSTUMBLED| J | ZINCOGRAPHY ----- WHACK | PROVIDENTLY | BUMFS BUSH WHACK VILE EVIL CYNICAL ABOUT HAMAS AND THE PIECES OF VILE FILTH RUNNING ITEITHER BUSH GAVE UP OR HIS BUSINESS TIES WITH THE BIN LADIN FAMILY PREVENT HIM FROMGO WHACK OFF, KID GO DELIVER A DARE, VILE DOG.FURTIVELY FROM BEHIND A BUSH, I SAW HIMSTUMBLED| J | ZINCOGRAPHY ----- WHACK | PROVIDENTLY | BUMFS YOU ARE EITHER EVIL, STUPID, OR INSANE AND I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY TO YOU.COMPLAIN THAT BUSH AND HIS VILE MINIONS ARE VIOLATING THE LAW, AND THEYLL WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTOBUSH AND HIS ADVISERS TOOK NO CHANCES THAT ANYONE INSIDE THE UNOF HAVING TO PAY FOR TH CBC NEWS -A VILE , ANTI-ISRAELI WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.ANALYST, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHICH WAY PRESIDENT BUSH IS GOINGTHESE HAMASS SPOKESMEN ARE THE MOST VILE LOOKING THINGS I WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.FIRST, GEORGE W. BUSH AND HIS NEOCONSERVATIVE BUDDIES MUST BETHAT VIEW IS PROFOUNDLY WRONG, BUT VILE RHETORIC DOES WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.CONDEMN THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ TO SERVITUDE UNDER THE VILE REGIME OF WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.NOTHING ABOUT THAT VILE REGIME WOULD SURPRISE MEUPRISING IS FOUND, I GET THIS OVERWHELMING URGE TO TRACK DOWN BUSH I AND GO DELIVER A DARE, VILE DOG.FURTIVELY FROM BEHIND A BUSH, I SAW HIMSTUMBLED| J | ZINCOGRAPHY ----- WHACK | PROVIDENTLY | BUMFS GO DELIVER A DARE, VILE DOG.FURTIVELY FROM BEHIND A BUSH, I SAW HIMSTUMBLED| J | ZINCOGRAPHY ----- WHACK | PROVIDENTLY | BUMFS BUSH WHACK VILE EVIL BUT MCCAIN AND BUSH WENT WAY PAST THE FOUL LINE INOF INTOLERANCE WHO RESEMBLE SHARPTON AND THE VILE LOUIS FARRAKHANAND SURE, IT WAS FAIR TO WHACK MCCAIN FROM GO DELIVER A DARE, VILE DOG.FURTIVELY FROM BEHIND A BUSH, I SAW HIMSTUMBLED| J | ZINCOGRAPHY ----- WHACK | PROVIDENTLY | BUMFS TO IMAGINE HOW EVIL THE PEOPLE ARE WHO ARE DOING THIS. -- GW BUSH.GOD, SPOILED MILK IS VILE.I DID MANAGE TO THROW MY SCHEDULE ALL OUT OF WHACK AGAIN(WHICH I AMEN | MAIN | WAR IS WRONG, WHACK YOUR SCHLONG =BB APRIL 11, 2003.USA! AND RENAMED THEMSELVES TO BUSH.YOU ARE A DECADENT, VILE INFIDEL TO THEM. DEFENDERS OF THE HAPLESS VICTIMS OF THIS EVIL SOCIETY THATVILE THINGS THAT CALL FOR A NATION TO REPENTTHE HILLARY DIVERSION TACTIC TO COVER BUSH -- HERE WE WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTOTHE RIGHT TO THEIR OPINIONS, EVEN THOSE WHO POST VILE ANTI-SEMITIC WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.TOPPLING YASSER ARAFAT FROM POWER, BUSH HAS SEEMINGLY CONTRADICTEDTHE VILE TACTIC OF SUICIDE TERRORISM MUST BE DEFEATED WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.CONGRATS BUSH* AND COWE WERE INFORMED THAT TESTS OF A FACILITY ONCE USED BY MSNBC REVEALED TRACES OF A VILE PETER ARNETT ANYWAY THE BUSH GROUP HAS EFFECTIVELY CONVINCED THE AMERICAN PUBLICHOPE MY CRYSTAL BALL IS OUT OF WHACK HERESUPPOSED TO BE FIGHTING AGAINST A VILE DICTATOR TO NEVER DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT VILE SPEECH MENTIONED.CORPORATIST STATE IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH, AND HISTHE COWARD THAT YOU ARE AND WHACK A COP BUSH WHACK VILE EVIL WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.I THINK THAT IT WAS FOOLISH FOR BUSH TO DENYMAORI ASSOCIATION HAS ALREADY HOSTED A PARTICULARLY VILE PALESTINIAN-THEMED WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.HEY, IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER TO BELIEVE BUSH IS ANBUT I CAN RESPECT A CUNNING ADVERSARY, NO MATTER HOW VILE HE MAY WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.ENOUGH VOCABULARY TO DESCRIBE THEM BUT ILL TRY - EVIL, VILE, VICIOUS AND WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTO.THIS MUST BE SIMPLE (THOUGH VILE) POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING. ARCHIVED) THIS IS A NORMAL POST JUST WHACK A YELLOWARCHIVED) THIS IS A NORMAL POST THIS BUSH BANDWAGON SEEMSTO A SUGGESTION FOR THE COMP: BEING AS VILE AS IS NEVER DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT VILE SPEECH MENTIONED.CORPORATIST STATE IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH, AND HISTHE COWARD THAT YOU ARE AND WHACK A COP NEVER DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT VILE SPEECH MENTIONED.CORPORATIST STATE IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH, AND HISTHE COWARD THAT YOU ARE AND WHACK A COP WHEN WILL THE BUSH BRATS GET RESPECTABLEOVER ANCIENT CAVE WITH WALLS COVERED IN VILE PALEOLITHIC ARTAND TO THINK US POPULATION WILL HIT 1 BILLION WHACK JOBS BY THE WIDESPREAD SUPPORT OF THE UMMAH, THE VILE AND EVILBUSH DISMISSED SUCH NOTIONS JUST THREE WEEKS AGOPRESUMABLY, THE MILITARY WHACK-A- MOLE CAMPAIGN WOULD BUT MCCAIN AND BUSH WENT WAY PAST THE FOUL LINE INOF INTOLERANCE WHO RESEMBLE SHARPTON AND THE VILE LOUIS FARRAKHANAND SURE, IT WAS FAIR TO WHACK MCCAIN FROM BUSH WHACK VILE EVIL YOUR OWN DAMN MARCH AND DISSOCIATE FROM THOSE VILE PEOPLEYOU ASSOCIATE WITH PRO-COMMUNIST, DICTATOR-FRIENDLY WHACK JOBSIT WOULD HAVE BEEN FAIR FOR BUSH TO TALK NEVER DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT VILE SPEECH MENTIONED.CORPORATIST STATE IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH, AND HISTHE COWARD THAT YOU ARE AND WHACK A COP NEVER DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT VILE SPEECH MENTIONED.CORPORATIST STATE IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH, AND HISTHE COWARD THAT YOU ARE AND WHACK A COP NEVER DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT VILE SPEECH MENTIONED.CORPORATIST STATE IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH, AND HISTHE COWARD THAT YOU ARE AND WHACK A COP NEVER DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT VILE SPEECH MENTIONED.CORPORATIST STATE IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH, AND HISTHE COWARD THAT YOU ARE AND WHACK A COP WE USED TO IMPEACH LIARS BUSH AND COMPANY HAVE LIED TO THEVISIT VILE MATERIALTO THE SIGHT OF A GLAMOROUS, CULTURALLY-RICH, MORALLY OUT-OF-WHACK, DECADENT CITY WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTOTHIS IS ABSOLUTELY VILE. WEIRD BUT NOT WHACK, THATS OUR MOTTOCALL OUT BUSH ON HIS TWO-FACED WOT WHILE DEMOCRATS ARE GEARINGTO START TALKING GENOCIDE IS TO BUY INTO THE VILE MYTHS OF USE DAVIS AS A CLUB TO DESERVEDLY WHACK THE OTHERWISEIS TO DIVERT ATTENTION AWAY FROM THAT VILE TROLL INTHIS RECALL, AND NOT ON FIGHTING AGAINST BUSH AND ALL SADDAM IS A VILE, MURDEROUS DICTATOR, AND FRANKLY, THE WORLDLET BUSH DO HAND TO HAND COMBAT WITH SADDAMTHEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO THIS EVIL MANS IMAGINATION. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:52:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: A Special Independence Day Message (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:35:18 -0400 From: People For the American Way <4599T03LM@pfaw.inv9.com> To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: A Special Independence Day Message ================================================================ People For the American Way July 3, 2003 ________________________________________________________________ HONORING THE 4TH OF JULY A Message from People For the American Way ** Abandonment of the constitutional rule of law. ** Military encroachment on civilian authority. ** Suspension of judicial protections. Scary times. So scary, in fact, that grievances against our head of state had to be expressed resolutely. In a document released on this day, a group of real patriots have done just that. He is "depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury," "he has...obstruct[ed] the laws for naturalization of foreigners," and people are being transported "beyond seas to be tried for pretended offences," the document reads. This group of civil libertarians went on to point out that our government's head has abolished "our most valuable laws," and altered, "fundamentally the forms of our governments." They elaborated, explaining, "He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people." Moreover, "he has affected to render the military independent of and superior to the civil power." "He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws," reads the indictment. Particular aim is taken at the threat to our judiciary, stating that George "has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers," and has "made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices." Released today - 227 years ago - the Declaration of Independence made the case for what would later become the United States of America and its guiding Constitution - the model for budding democracies ever since. Read the full Declaration at: http://inv9.com/.l/4599T09YKF On this holiday, let us all remember what our Founding Fathers fought for, and the tyranny they fought against. Not already a PFAW activist or member? Please join us in our present-day battle to retain the values championed by our Founding Fathers. Become an activist today: http://inv9.com/.l/4599T09YKG ________________________________________________________________ SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION: To change your e-mail subscription preferences, go to: http://inv9.com/.l/4599T09YKG ________________________________________________________________ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR EFFORTS -- JOIN PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY People For the American Way depends on the support of individuals like you. Join us today and know that you are helping to keep alive the true American spirit: tolerance, free speech, protection for minorities, equal opportunity, and freedom for all religious faiths without government intrusion. To become a member of People For the American Way, please call 1-800-326-7329 or go to: http://inv9.com/.l/4599T09YKH Donations to People For the American Way are not tax-deductible as charitable contributions or as business expenses under IRC Sec. 162(e). ================================================================ People For the American Way 2000 M Street, NW | Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 http://inv9.com/.l/4599T09YKJ | pfaw@pfaw.org 1-800-326-PFAW | 202/467-4999 ________________________________________________________________ endalert ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 05:54:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: #0001 synchronized repeated motion excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #0001 synchronized repeated motion excerpt were whispered, morrow I shall be up, Force Space Command. helpful to the morrow I shall be up, Force Space Command. were whispered, toward him, could intellect, the ego, grasping the bottom for the first time, for the first time, gone, and the toward him, could intellect, the ego, gone, and the and marched down the and marched down the man, and they are intellect, the ego, intellect, the ego, Force Space Command. proceeded rather before her a well- that old time. Her and I hope to set as she sat at work. Pushing back and I hope to set as she sat at work. that old time. Her political and Ramachandra? If you pikes gleaming. actions so long as actions so long as Far, far beneath us political and Ramachandra? If you Far, far beneath us 'Nothing, sir,' 'Nothing, sir,' determination, which Ramachandra? If you Ramachandra? If you as she sat at work. served. contemptuous triumph reported the Negro out for Urbino, maid for the battle Figuring out for Urbino, maid for the battle reported the Negro deliver as in clearness of attempts. Be crafty, Bill, and Be crafty, Bill, and crystalline bars deliver as in clearness of crystalline bars great flames great flames wildly for the top, in clearness of in clearness of maid for the battle make nothing of it.' demonstrated that Sadhana and where my dear his journey to close where my dear his journey to Sadhana and imposter.' faint and weak; the light, and at his questioner at his questioner paviour his imposter.' faint and weak; paviour his scarce worth scarce worth fucking noisy. At faint and weak; faint and weak; his journey to slipped from the been men, but have awful presence of Mr. purpose behind led to his peculiar, and purpose behind led to his awful presence of Mr. likely to be in which they shelter; soft tap at the door, taking him between taking him between appearance. likely to be in which they shelter; appearance. Giles, calling in a Giles, calling in a anything like the which they shelter; which they shelter; led to his and love for "Auld prey to the Yet I had, creation. Why did and to be loved; the first, 'for she creation. Why did and to be loved; Yet I had, Drake's eyes fixed after AWE," pecker. God, it of the images of the images sharp in this town, Drake's eyes fixed after AWE," sharp in this town, swiftly the girl we swiftly the girl we 'to the fortunes of after AWE," after AWE," and to be loved; scene but his wife august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:11:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: help with a quote In-Reply-To: <20030703231723.15757.qmail@web40801.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I asked Willard Bohn about the quotation; he didn't know the source, but gives this brief gloss and a quick translation: I don't know where the quote (filled with spelling errors) comes from, but it means something like: Poetry . . . There are no poets but simply one poet, always the same, from the beginning to the end of the world, a force that assumes the color of the times, tribes, countries, languages, certain faces, it flows between banks that border it like a river, beneath various skies and against various backgrounds. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:55:28 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: The problem with senators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The problem with senators is that they think they can (should) be president. In the history of the United States, the number of senators who immediately ascended to the White House is exactly one: JFK. Since Watergate the White House has changed parties four times. In EVERY case, the incoming president who ousted the other party was a Governor. Carter ousted Ford Reagan ousted Carter Clinton ousted Bush 41 Bush 43 "defeated" Gore If Bush had been a Senator (or Gore had been a governor), the Supreme Court would never had had a chance to rig the results. Conclusion: when the populace is dissatisfied with the incumbent, they will NOT turn to another "Washington insider." Conclusion 2: John Kerry has ZERO chance of beating Bush. Ditto every other senator and congressman. A Kerry candidacy is a "gimme" to the Republicans. It's Dean or nothing. I'm not wild about Dean - he seems like a New England version of Carter. He's good on certain issues, but not necessarily good on others and may prove every bit as rigid as Carter did when in office. Nor is Dean is the best positioned Governor to run - but the one who is/was best positioned - Gary Locke of Washington - isn't running. And I agree with the perception that Kucinich is not all he seems to be. His flip flog on women's rights to control their bodies seems entirely brought on by his desire to win the nomination. I would expect anti-choice Supreme Court nominations from him. There are no guarantees. Bush would certainly try to make Dean look like Dukakis all over again, the lone exception to the governors' rule (but he was running against another former governor). Given that even Al Sharpton would be an improvement on what is certainly the worst president in U.S. history, I think we have to try. But don't drink the "Kerry is the strongest candidate" Koolaid. Because it's absolutely not true, Ron PS on another topic altogether: The OED shows the first use of the word "experiential" belongs to Coleridge, yes. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:06:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank: We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida was fixed. Not to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not criticizing your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more than worthwhile. But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and badly, during my lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't afford it, as corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the right-wing, in any country, always has the shit together, as their program is simple: power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy. The right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to simplicity and the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the master of secrecy and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While democracy is about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the laundry out. And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next election. I agree that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the national election. You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level and quality of a country's literacy. Need I say more? -Joel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Sherlock" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who couldn't win > in > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm saying this- > > again. > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already decided that a > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is what you're > told. > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. You're that > scared? > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A candidate > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL NOT win in > 2004. > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve what you get. > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > alternative, > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten Commandments will take the > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh all the way to > his > > > next war. > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of > elected > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual citizen > > > become > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this list again. I do > > > want to > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are fueling the fear fire > as > > > a > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the latest polls. As > long > > > as > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean it, as we're > > > witnessing. > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the candidate, & nobody > really > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand > > > accountability > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & again. If we > don't > > > support > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's election, > we > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the > stakes > > > are > > > > > much higher. > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the > > > convention > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to the > > > left in > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, i.e. > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still make > a > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew out > of > > > > > there, > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, of > the > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be > > > running > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the > strongest > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign policy, > but > > > > > first > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage > already, > > > > > wait > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention > to > > > the > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and culture > has > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis > Kucinich. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis Kucinich > for > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who > are > > > too > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole > > > political > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in Washington, > but > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and > bravery > > > who > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator Paul > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food > laws > > > and > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the > interests > > > of > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above the > > > greed > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but > this > > > is > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with politics. > I > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will be > > > doing > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do > concerts > > > to > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the > views > > > of > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the > support of > > > a > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." ## > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, > momentum > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we > increase > > > our > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and > > > fundraising. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If Dennis > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have a > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many > > > candidates > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see > why > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > >> > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > > > > > 7 > > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:17:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: Incineration of Passions Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All those philosophical whims called duties have no relation whatever=20 to Nature; duty proceeds from men, Attraction proceeds from God; now,=20 if we desire to know the designs of God, we must study Attraction,=20 Nature only, without any regard to duty, which varies with every age,=20 while the nature of the passions has been and will remain invariable=20 among all nations of men. Charles Fourier "Th=E9orie des Quatre Mouvements" http://www.spidertangle.net/phpwiki/index.php/IncinerationOfPassions= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:44:18 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Bush Asks Congress For $30 Billion To Help Fight War On Criticism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.theonion.com/onion3925/bush_asks_congress.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:28:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Starr Subject: Gary Locke?! Re: The problem with senators In-Reply-To: <000001c3423c$4fc753c0$aafa8044@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Be grateful Locke isn't running. As one of the PI columnists wrote this last week, the Republicans should consider Locke their best candidate. The only reason Locke looks like a Democrat in this state is because the Republicans are busy polishing their guns and waiting for the black helicopters to come in over the treetops. Most recently, Locke almost wet himself, so anxious was he to help out Boeing. He gave the company $3 billion in tax write offs (this is on a state budget of $23 billion per biennium -- do the math, even if the cut is over ten years ... ). He gutted unemployment law. And on and on. This for a corporation that has, so far, proven a lynchpin of the Puget Sound economy by laying off 30,000 people in the last year and a half and announced another 500 job cuts the week after it got the giveaway. In the regular session, Locke refused to raise taxes and smacked social services hard across the mouth. As a result, 60,000 working poor in the state are going to be booted off the state's basic healthcare plan. Next stop, the ER -- if they can make it that far. And that's only the largest of the cuts. If you were poor, underemployed, or have children, you got fucked. Locke makes Dan Evans (a former moderate Republican governor) look like a tree-hugging pinko. - Ron Starr From: Ron To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Nor is Dean is the best positioned Governor to run - but the one who > is/was best positioned - Gary Locke of Washington - isn't running. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:04:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Gary Locke?! Re: The problem with senators In-Reply-To: <3F0572D5.22627.2C1792@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Locke! Where does or does not Gen W Clark fit into any Democratic profile. I have skim knowledge - but I assume he would scare the shit out of the Bushies. He can't be easily McGovernized, etc. Time for Peace Convoys to Iraq to bring out a whole new rush of Conscientious Soldier Objectors. My "precision" radar senses the lines are forming. Otherwise the military in Iraq looks likes it's stuck and rolling on a Velcro road to hell with absolutely no way out - well, "we" are buying Polish and other mercenaries to camouflage an apparent absolute failure of "occupation" foresight and "precision" planning. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think "we" is fried. Happy Fourth! Stephen V on 7/4/03 12:28 PM, Ron Starr at rstarr@ESKIMO.COM wrote: > Be grateful Locke isn't running. As one of the PI columnists wrote > this last week, the Republicans should consider Locke their best > candidate. > > The only reason Locke looks like a Democrat in this state is because > the Republicans are busy polishing their guns and waiting for the > black helicopters to come in over the treetops. > > Most recently, Locke almost wet himself, so anxious was he to help > out Boeing. He gave the company $3 billion in tax write offs (this is > on a state budget of $23 billion per biennium -- do the math, even if > the cut is over ten years ... ). He gutted unemployment law. And on > and on. This for a corporation that has, so far, proven a lynchpin of > the Puget Sound economy by laying off 30,000 people in the last > year and a half and announced another 500 job cuts the week after it > got the giveaway. > > In the regular session, Locke refused to raise taxes and smacked > social services hard across the mouth. As a result, 60,000 working > poor in the state are going to be booted off the state's basic > healthcare plan. Next stop, the ER -- if they can make it that far. And > that's only the largest of the cuts. If you were poor, underemployed, > or have children, you got fucked. > > Locke makes Dan Evans (a former moderate Republican governor) > look like a tree-hugging pinko. > > - Ron Starr > > > From: Ron > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> >> Nor is Dean is the best positioned Governor to run - but the one who >> is/was best positioned - Gary Locke of Washington - isn't running. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:29:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Fwd: QP:queerpoetry Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: > From: "Jonathan " > Date: Fri Jul 4, 2003 10:02:55 AM US/Pacific > To: , , "kari=20 > edwards" > Subject: QP:queerpoetry > > Greetings, everyone. > > Michelle Gibson and I would like to invite you to browse through the=20= > first > issue of *QP:queer poetry* : http://queerpoetry.cjb.net --with work=20= > by > Jessica Posgate, Robert Gl=FCck, Maxianne Berger. Matthue, John = Gilgun,=20 > elen > gebreab, kari edwards, Captain Snowdon, & Michael V. Smith. > > We also invite you to consider contributing to the next issue, devoted=20= > to > "Queers and Violence." We hope to receive poetry from poets whose work > explores any issue related to violence and queerness. Poems can focus=20= > on any > topic, theme, or insight grappling with queers and violence-and the=20 > poet > her/himself should decide on what does or does not constitute violence > and/or queerness. > > Poems should be submitted electronically by October 1, 2003 to = Michelle > Gibson gibsonma@ucmail.uc.edu or Jonathan Alexander jamma@fuse.net. > > j. > > [jonathan alexander/associate professor of english/university of=20 > cincinnati] > [http://oz.uc.edu/~alexanj/] > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/03 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:22:43 -0700 Reply-To: bradsenning@dissociatedwritersproject.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: brad senning Subject: concert, DC, 7/5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A reminder that the DWP benefit concert happens tomorrow nite, that is, Saturday, 7/5, at 9pm at Signal 66 in DC. I'm hoping for a strong turn-out, so that we can put on more of these kinds of concerts and shows, per the recommendations of the art gallery we're putting this on at, not only in DC, but across the midwest on our way to the Chigaco gig next March. So pleez come. Brian Kalkbrenner is reading, we're passing out free copies of the first DWP journal, which includes our list of recommended children's books, and there will be much merrymaking. John Sinclair is in the house, m*therf*cking John Sinclair! This is going to be a blast. Brad Senning _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: & the rockets' red glaring omission MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1) Go to Google=2Ecom http://www=2Egoogle=2Ecom 2) type in (but don't hit return): "weapons of mass destruction" 3) Hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button, instead of the normal "Google=20 search" button 4) READ what appears to be a normal error message =20 paul wessels p=2Eo=2E box 2482 cape town 8000 south africa =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:23:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: & the rockets' red glaring omission Comments: To: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brilliant! Very, very good. (I like the links, too) (That is, it deflects the catastrophe for a minute or two through wit -- which is more than most poetry does). "Catastrophe is not what threatens to occur at any given moment but what is given at any given moment. . . That things have gone this far *is* the catastrophe." (Benjamin) "The apocalypse is near. Each passing second brings it no nearer." (Norman O. Brown) -----Original Message----- From: dbuuck@mindspring.com To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: 7/4/03 3:10 PM Subject: & the rockets' red glaring omission 1) Go to Google.com http://www.google.com 2) type in (but don't hit return): "weapons of mass destruction" 3) Hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button, instead of the normal "Google search" button 4) READ what appears to be a normal error message paul wessels p.o. box 2482 cape town 8000 south africa -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:00:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: & the rockets' red glaring omission In-Reply-To: <9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8E013739E0@lwtc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If you hit the buttons within the page you wind up in what appears to be an ad for Amazon UK. So much for the coalition. Mark At 03:23 PM 7/4/2003 -0700, you wrote: > Brilliant! Very, very good. (I like the links, too) > >(That is, it deflects the catastrophe for a minute or two through wit -- >which is more than most poetry does). > >"Catastrophe is not what threatens to occur at any given moment but what is >given at any given moment. . . That things have gone this far *is* the >catastrophe." (Benjamin) > >"The apocalypse is near. Each passing second brings it no nearer." (Norman >O. Brown) > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: dbuuck@mindspring.com >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Sent: 7/4/03 3:10 PM >Subject: & the rockets' red glaring omission > >1) Go to Google.com http://www.google.com >2) type in (but don't hit return): "weapons of mass destruction" >3) Hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button, instead of the normal "Google >search" button >4) READ what appears to be a normal error message > >paul wessels >p.o. box 2482 >cape town >8000 >south africa > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:33:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: & the rockets' red glaring omission In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030704165913.01d8aee8@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That specific link also serves to link Donald Rummy to Dr. Strangelove. Didja notice? Hal { If you hit the buttons within the page you wind up in what appears to be an { ad for Amazon UK. So much for the coalition. { { Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:33:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The strongest candidate is actually Howard Dean. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > Frank: > > We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida was fixed. Not > to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not criticizing > your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more than worthwhile. > But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and badly, during my > lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't afford it, as > corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the right-wing, > in any country, always has the shit together, as their program is simple: > power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy. The > right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to simplicity and > the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the master of secrecy > and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While democracy is > about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the laundry out. > And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. > As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next election. I agree > that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the national election. > You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level and quality of > a country's literacy. Need I say more? > > -Joel > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who couldn't win > > in > > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm saying > this- > > > again. > > > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already decided that a > > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is what you're > > told. > > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. You're that > > scared? > > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A > candidate > > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL NOT win in > > 2004. > > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve what you > get. > > > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > > alternative, > > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten Commandments will take > the > > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh all the way to > > his > > > > next war. > > > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of > > elected > > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual > citizen > > > > become > > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this list again. I > do > > > > want to > > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are fueling the fear > fire > > as > > > > a > > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the latest polls. As > > long > > > > as > > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean it, as we're > > > > witnessing. > > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the candidate, & nobody > > really > > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand > > > > accountability > > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & again. If we > > don't > > > > support > > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's > election, > > we > > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the > > stakes > > > > are > > > > > > much higher. > > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the > > > > convention > > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to > the > > > > left in > > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, > i.e. > > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still > make > > a > > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew > out > > of > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, > of > > the > > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be > > > > running > > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the > > strongest > > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign > policy, > > but > > > > > > first > > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage > > already, > > > > > > wait > > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and > culture > > has > > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis > > Kucinich. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis > Kucinich > > for > > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who > > are > > > > too > > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole > > > > political > > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > Washington, > > but > > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and > > bravery > > > > who > > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator > Paul > > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food > > laws > > > > and > > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the > > interests > > > > of > > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above > the > > > > greed > > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, > but > > this > > > > is > > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with > politics. > > I > > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will > be > > > > doing > > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do > > concerts > > > > to > > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the > > views > > > > of > > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the > > support of > > > > a > > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." > ## > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, > > momentum > > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we > > increase > > > > our > > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and > > > > fundraising. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If > Dennis > > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have > a > > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive > Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see > > why > > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > > >> > > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 00:27:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Ch'ien Tzu Wen 2/3 translation < filter > Ch'ien Tzu Wen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ch'ien Tzu Wen 2/3 translation < filter > Ch'ien Tzu Wen heaven earth black yellow :: is black, the cosmos are vast a desolate wasteland sun fills moon sets in west it's dusk from 7 to 9 morning constellations line up measure word, they spread out cold comes heat goes autumn harvesting winter hiding, concealing intercalary timing leftover residue becomes one tenth measurement of years so lu bamboo pitches shift position open clouds ascend, galloping, sending rain dew forms becoming frost gold gives birth beautiful water jade emanates Kun mountain summit double-edged dagger furiously named huge gate-tower pearl called light darkness treasure fruit plum apple many vegetables mustard ginger sea salted rivers fresh fishscales hidden depths feathers circling above fire dragon emperor teaching phoenix royal official men beginning making writing characters then uniforms, wearing robes < clothing skirts expel throne yield country yao tang has predicted console people strike down guilty hold boundary talk and test with scalding trying case at court query way bequeath bow doubting sections love raise hosts leaders minister prostrate army barbarians near far reality ration guest returning cries white colt grazes there change covers grass weeds (vegetation) trust attain myriad (10,000) directions (square) covering person issues (giving to) four great five (is) normal respect (connector / alone) rearing children (!) flattering destroys injures women adore chastity unyielding imitate pleasing genius know what passes certainty attainment ability never neglect deception other brief disintegration reliance on self (self-reliance) long faith cause should be covered (protect your faith) tool (utensil) desire trouble (quantity) measure-word ink (of) sorrow, sadness (on silk) printed (sadness stains poetry praise small (lamb) sheep (sheep) view, scenery lines tied or lined-up wisdom restraint, conquering study makes (creates) sage benevolence built name stands origin shape proper (upright) model sky valley proclaim (one's) fame empty chamber hall (public room) learn (review lessons) carefully disaster (catastrophe) depends (is caused by) accumulation evil blessings (fortune) (are virtuous happiness 1/3 meter (scale, ruler) bi-jade (circular disk hole) negative (un- ) 1/30 (measurement, small) yin (shadow, moon, sexual organs, feminine, secret) (just so) (to be) emulated (compete with) capital father (parallels) (business) affairs supreme ruler speak strictly (accurately) give filial piety serves as (accepts) end power (the others) devotion follows (rules) life face (meet, confront) deep tread (put shoes) lightly dawn (early morning) prosper warm (and pure) like (an) orchid(s) this fragrance (a) pine(s) prospers river flows not (un) stopping (ceaselessly) (abyss) clear (transparent) take (create) reflection contain (form) (and) stop if (one is) thinking say diction (classical rhetoric) (with) quiet, peaceful determination deliberate beginnings sincerity, fidelity beautiful, beauty prudent all good ancient laws honorable trade place) foundation rolls greatly nothing (in the) outstanding ascend (to) (service) addition work obey government survive by means wild pear go increase chant music particularly precious humble rites well valuable low harmony below harmonious husband chants (calls upon) wife external (foreign) accept pass instructions enter internal) (play music) mother appearance (ceremony) father's sister older brother younger same as) child compared son (child) think very much \ each elder agreeing (as) mind (ch'i, spirit) linking (joining) branches make friends join divide cut polish precepts rules kind humanity (conceal) compassion create order separation integrity (justice) back honesty wicked suffer setbacks loss money still nature evades passion heart moves weary guard truth full intention follow idea (your) (mind) steer properly please rank (of office) bind yourself city village flourish summer east two capitals Mong (mountain) Luo (river) floating Wei according (seize) Jing (Sheu river) (government) tray (blossoms) (strong fragrance) (from tower watch (look out) (as if) flying (be) amazed drawing (painting) draw (paint) birds animals pictures colorful immortals (hermits) spirits third stem alms (cottage, abandon) drawn (beside) awaken (disclosure) first curtain (notebook, album) against (answer, reply) pillar (wantonly) mats establish place drum (play) lute (25-string se4) blow sheng1 (mouth reed instrument) climb stairs high steps cap changes distrust stars right (direction) through broad interior left attains holds brightness already gathering tomb ceremony again assembles group flowers withered pear-tree faithful (bells, chimes) li-script (servant) lacquered write (on) wall (lining) classics (jing1) bureaus skeins command together (mutually) path swordsman scholar tree state doors sealed eight counties homes allowed (for) (salary of) thousand soldiers (troops) (the) tall crown palanquin drive wheel) hubs shake tassels world grants (allowance) luxury wealth harness vehicle (palanquin) quickly policy merits profusion truths (reality) engrave monument inscribe inscription (artist's signature) tributary stream that an offiial (head Wei) assistant (subordinate) sometimes flatters (sometimes) judges (under) cover home injustice abundant early (minute) who conducting business (grave/marking post) (prince) Duke Huan regulated fit (harmony) help weak assist (help up) falling (leaning) figured cloth wraps around Han (Chinese) blessing, kindnesses speech emotion warrior man, population [the] superior man [does things thoroughly urgency] [regulates important matters State] scholars just [really] (tranquil) Jin Chu supremacy Zhao surrounded (placed) false road (way) destroyed Guo trample alliance Interrogative particle (how?) (do you) abide promises (according legal principles abuse troubled (they were?) punished rise exterminate quite magistrates (shepherds) employ (with utmost skill (announce) might (power) (across desert galloping reputation (gallops) (across) reds blues nine provinces (emperor) Yu marked hundred prefectures Qin merged (i.e. were enlarged) ancestral exalted Tai meditation (ch'an, Zen) lord (master, chief) speaks the, arbor Wild Goose Gate Great Wall (purple pass) chicken field bare (scarlet) walls (city) Elder Brother Pond peak stone Dong Ting Lake wilderness distant incessant profound cliff cave (mountain peak) dark (quiet) (dark) [...] ch'in 4-stringed instrument wonderful question problem gate (grammatical predicates) (assist) -er (helper) where (particle) (exclamatory interrogative) interrogative ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:15:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Schwarzenegger Surreal in Iraq In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is out there! From the July 5 London Independent: ... the US military said it had killed 11 Iraqis who had attacked a convoy with rocket-propelled grenades and machine-gun fire. No Americans were injured. The mortar attack on the base came just before the arrival of Arnold Schwarzenegger on a 4 July visit to US troops and also presumably in the hope of boosting his chances if, as he has indicated, he runs for the governorship of California. On arriving at Baghdad airport, where there was a special screening of his latest movie, Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, Mr Schwarzenegger had already, somewhat tastelessly, given his first impressions of Iraq. "It is really wild driving round here, I mean the poverty, and you see there is no money, it is disastrous financially and there is the leadership vacuum, pretty much like California," he said. If he had stayed longer, he would also have discovered differences between California and Iraq such as the stream of raw sewage that runs in front of the door of the main children's teaching hospital in Baghdad, the lack of electricity and water and the continual looting... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:37:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just a note that snoop didn't create that mode of speak...it's been a part of so cal gang culture for decades... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anastasios Kozaitis" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:22 PM Subject: Re: Heaney praises Eminem > A quick chime in here, Eminem is talented with his rhymes, but he will > never be able to do what Biggie Smalls did. Biggie was incredible. Early > on JayZ was also quite good, but he's fallen off quite a big, and Nelly > is not someone I consider to be that talented at all. > > Let's not forget the irrepressible SHIZZOLATOR. Not only can Snoopp > rhyme, he can create languages. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 03:14:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: alone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII alone from Kun mountain (to the) Mong (mountain) mountain (and) cave (mountain peak) and valley the rivers the river the Luo (river) Wei (river) the Jing (Sheu river) small stream sky Ting Lake sky water earth yellow :: heaven is black, earth is yellow (the) earth the (business) affairs the stairs the fire ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 00:33:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: #0001 subversive intelligentsia agency excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #0001 subversive intelligentsia agency excerpt strntheu psrsitive cesionsIs dissoan 35612Wdi lecnicsI eRFin800 foooprodt tierorss strntheu psrsitive cesionsIs lelopeda 35612Wdi lecnicsI eRFin800 ntstheb tierorss strntheu psrsitive anyonsT lelopeda 35612Wdi lecnicsI onereeff ntstheb tierorss strntheu pndan anyonsT lelopeda 35612Wdi EPRrogramO onereeff ntstheb tierorss vendors pndan anyonsT lelopeda entronmeni EPRrogramO onereeff ntstheb otacompo vendors pndan anyonsT tbeobest entronmeni EPRrogramO onereeff orckyou otacompo vendors pndan twilight tbeobest entronmeni EPRrogramO iatrtsda orckyou otacompo vendors owemehor twilight tbeobest entronmeni throughout iatrtsda orckyou otacompo hadluatio owemehor twilight tbeobest Theeasil throughout iatrtsda orckyou ingSant hadluatio owemehor twilight oweApackr Theeasil throughout iatrtsda bilCthati ingSant hadluatio owemehor astoal oweApackr Theeasil throughout wordownk-donors bilCthati ingSant hadluatio resablehc astoal oweApackr Theeasil alShisar wordownk-donors bilCthati ingSant lyasomes resablehc astoal oweApackr ICswith alShisar wordownk-donors bilCthati nsidarent lyasomes resablehc astoal rnaurrentt ICswith alShisar wordownk-donors wak-linee nsidarent lyasomes resablehc inlembedi rnaurrentt ICswith alShisar aanatehi wak-linee nsidarent lyasomes mmosresud inlembedi rnaurrentt ICswith ytabili aanatehi wak-linee nsidarent ofts1999 mmosresud inlembedi rnaurrentt hisutside ytabili aanatehi wak-linee ablvaluee ofts1999 mmosresud inlembedi wedge hisutside ytabili aanatehi sougets ablvaluee ofts1999 mmosresud gadwould wedge hisutside ytabili rsetprod sougets ablvaluee ofts1999 caclable gadwould wedge hisutside asaretoo rsetprod sougets ablvaluee oreandre caclable gadwould wedge pheardour asaretoo rsetprod sougets underlining oreandre caclable gadwould tsnlydo pheardour asaretoo rsetprod wicnADCe underlining oreandre caclable walnut-tree tsnlydo pheardour asaretoo relrteroe wicnADCe underlining oreandre aneheexa walnut-tree tsnlydo pheardour thallium relrteroe wicnADCe underlining sevcompar aneheexa walnut-tree tsnlydo august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:19:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: #0001 Pogrom Is My Mother Tongue Excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #0001 Pogrom Is My Mother Tongue Excerpt third day shall affability of his skin fireside daily third day shall soft, tender balls, soft, tender balls, affability of his working resolve working resolve syllable Charlotte control bda ss working resolve out knowing it, a thou other first learn mouth except Seth Unrelaxed Lord world skin fireside daily met Misfortune out knowing it, a except Seth first learn mouth met Misfortune and stooped over the discrimination finding a opportunity Marline?" I said, finding a Mr Sikes said pious Mr Sikes said pious opportunity eyes opening wider eyes opening wider great walls upon the roadstead, maintaining eyes opening wider apparently good Tohu accomplished pleasure dealer none left standing went nearly Marline?" I said, houses temples apparently good Tohu dealer none left pleasure houses temples my cock, she dedicated working wassenaar list dual stream fire labeling I bet 2 at once will wassenaar list dual ways means heaven up ways means heaven up stream fire labeling rail with an rail with an grape six days Scholarships several METHUSELAH rail with an stand up peckery arise thy vivid convention held agreed framework Norhala's laughter I bet 2 at once will center philadelphia stand up peckery agreed framework convention held center philadelphia and leaning back celebrated both use goods alone among high day revelation use goods with, in with, in alone among high creating man again creating man again answered solemnly Dodger disappears areas hospitals creating man again takes five north korea third more twenty monitored time Moksha debarred day revelation portentous size takes five monitored time more twenty portentous size trinkets dalliant landed fox go technologies ton bark was neither Then only, as if technologies Ineffable Ineffable ton bark was neither Seven times Seven times through skin relish pseudotuberculosis while offering Seven times amethyst dropped man, especially stronger known set adversary why look cairo april Then only, as if felt God swore never amethyst dropped adversary why look stronger known set felt God swore never forward pleaded training part war for you you have place all seen seen fit put war for you you have boundless light, boundless light, place all seen and your mouth wants and your mouth wants birth books store children will lair he had to leave, and your mouth wants whence Noah still death Adam inner spoke Adam scientific technical carry these seen fit put audit report whence Noah scientific technical inner spoke Adam audit report the field will be "You think, sir, twenty-eighth goal believe thing poor broke twenty-eighth which he had put up which he had put up goal believe could comprehend at could comprehend at fifteen thousand judges each while offering could comprehend at better can serve thy ways Raphael created first shrank made feel own exceedingly left thing poor broke all incessant better can serve shrank made feel own created first all incessant strength said throne filled sameness of instrument Give time weak rich led onward uncut instrument cwc reaffirmed these cwc reaffirmed these Give time weak rich humming through humming through signed washington trunk ways Enoch trinkets dalliant humming through withered lips Mr a little hesitant, dream delineation much needs led onward uncut overlooked like withered lips Mr dream delineation overlooked like back cock pea-fowl violation august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 05:10:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: down MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII down my a arms a and w wrists a are h hurting. i i'm i in p pain a a g good d deal o of t the t time. i i can't s sleep a at a all a anymore. b bad m memories o of f florida c create n nightmare university d dreams. i i'm n nervous a all t the t time a afraid o of m money r running o out. i s see m my h health d disappearing. i i w will b become a addicted t to c codeine. i i d dream of s somnolence. i i h have m megalomaniac d dreams o of s success. s sometimes i i f feel deeply b betrayed. i i c can't s stand m my b body. i if i it w wasn't f for a azure i i'd probably g give u up e everything a at t the m moment. i i d don't t think i i'm p particularly good f for h her. i i w wouldn't w want t to b be t the f friend o of a anyone w who h has m me f for a a friend. i i'm f far t too n needy a and d demanding f for m my f friends. i i k keep f feeling t the world i is f falling a apart. i i k keep h hoping s social g glue w will h hold i it t together. at t times i i g get s slight t twinges i in m my b brain l left f frontal w which i i'm s sure someday w will k kill m me. i i w worry a about b being t too f forgetful a and g going s senile. i w worry a about t the r rage i i e engender e everywhere a around m me. i i d don't s seem t to stop g gaining c cholesterol p points e even t though i i d diet c constantly. m my w weight is f far t too m much a and i i s still c can't l look a at m myself i in a a m mirror. i i f feel d death is j just a around t the c corner. i i r run o out o of b breath f far t too e easily a and m my c chest hurts. my h hearing s seems v variable w which l leads m me t to b believe i in e early confusion. m my f fingers h hurt o on o occasion a and m my m mouth m muscles d don't h hold their e embrochure. i'm a a c complete f failure a at e earning m money o or h holding a a job. m my f family p places n no v value a at a all o on w what i i a actually d do w which i isolates me f from t them. i i n nervously c count m my p positioning o on g googol a as i if t that w would ensure i immortality. i i t tear m myself a apart r remorselessly f for p past s sins a and omissions. i i h honestly b believe t this c country i is h heading r relentlessly t towards fascism. i i s see n no a absolute r reason t to b believe i in p peace o or f freedom. i i s see n no absolute r reason t to b believe i in a any e environmental c concern. m my b beliefs a are without f foundation a and i i s speak u up m much t too f frequently. i i a am o obscene a and obnoxious. i i'm f far t too f frightened f for s suicide. l lying a awake a at n night l like this i i f find m myself s suspended f from h human c contact. i i d don't w want t to b be a a burden o on a azure e either n now o or i in m my o own a age. i i a am a absolutely c convinced that t the e enlightenment i is a all t that i is l left. evil r rears i its h head i in t the name o of t the g good. i i c can't f focus o on c change i i h have a a h hard t time b believing i in. my o own d death h haunts m me. i i d died y years a ago. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:40:26 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: MIT Watches the Government - Government Information Awareness In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://business.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2003/07/04/website_turns_tables_on_government_officials ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:06:29 -0400 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois-Ren=E9=20Duchable?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhlIFRpbWVzIFtMb25kb25dIC8gYW5kYW50ZSAtIDQgSnVseSAyMDAzDQoNCkZyZW5jaCB2 aXJ0dW9zbyBrZXlib2FyZGlzdCBGcmFuw6dvaXMtUmVuw6kgRHVjaGFibGUgcGxhbnMgdG8g DQplbmQgaGlzIGNhcmVlciB0aGlzIHN1bW1lciBieSBkZXN0cm95aW5nIHR3byBncmFuZCBw aWFub3MgYW5kIA0KYnVybmluZyBoaXMgY29uY2VydCBzdWl0IHRvIHByb3Rlc3Qgd2hhdCBo ZSBzZWVzIGFzIHRoZSANCmJvdXJnZW9pcyBlbGl0aXNtIG9mIHRoZSBjbGFzc2ljYWwgbXVz aWMgd29ybGQsIFRoZSBUaW1lcyBvZiANCkxvbmRvbiByZXBvcnRzLg0KDQpBY2NvcmRpbmcg dG8gVGhlIFRpbWVzLCBEdWNoYWJsZSwgNTEsIHRvbGQgdGhlIEZyZW5jaCANCkNhdGhvbGlj IG5ld3NhcGVyIExhIENyb2l4IHRoYXQgaGlzIGxpZmUgYXMgYSB0b3VyaW5nIHBpYW5pc3Qg DQpoYXMgYmVlbiAiaGVsbCIgYW5kIGhlIGRlbGl2ZXJlZCBibGlzdGVyaW5nIHBhcnRpbmcg YXR0YWNrcyANCm9uIHNvbWUgb2YgaGlzIGZlbGxvdyBtdXNpY2lhbnMuDQoNCkFsZnJlZCBC cmVuZGVsJ3MgbGF0ZXN0IHJlY29yZGluZywgRHVjaGFibGUgc2FpZCwgDQppcyAiZGlzY291 cmFnaW5nbHkgYXJ0aWZpY2lhbC4iIE1hdXJpemlvIFBvbGxpbmkgaGFzICJ3b3JuIA0KaGlt c2VsZiBvdXQgZnJvbSByZXBlYXRpbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUgdGhpbmdzIiBhbmQgTWFydGhhIA0K QXJnZXJpY2ggaGFzICJtYW5hZ2VkIHRvIGJlY29tZSBhIG15dGggYnkgYWx3YXlzIHBsYXlp bmcgdGhlIA0Kc2FtZSBmb3VyIGNvbmNlcnRvcy4iDQoNCkR1Y2hhYmxlIHRvbGQgTGEgQ3Jv aXg6ICJUaGUgcGlhbm8gaXMgYSBzeW1ib2wgb2YgYSBjZXJ0YWluIA0KZG9taW5lZXJpbmcg Ym91cmdlb2lzIGFuZCBpbmR1c3RyaWFsIHNvY2lldHkgdGhhdCBoYXMgdG8gYmUgDQpkZXN0 cm95ZWQuIFVzZWQgYXMgdGhpcyBzb2NpZXR5IHVzZXMgaXQsIHRoZSBwaWFubyBpcyBhbiAN CmFycm9nYW50IGluc3RydW1lbnQgd2hpY2ggZXhjbHVkZXMgYWxsIHRob3NlIHRoYXQgZG9u J3Qga25vdyANCmFib3V0IG11c2ljLiIgDQoNClRoZSBwaWFuaXN0IHNheXMgaGUgcGxhbnMg dG8gY3JlYXRlIGEgc2Vuc2F0aW9uIHdpdGggaGlzIA0KZmluYWwgdGhyZWUgY29uY2VydHMs IGFjY29yZGluZyB0byBUaGUgVGltZXMuIFRoZSBmaXJzdCANCmNvbmNlcnQsIHNjaGVkdWxl ZCBmb3IgdGhlIGVuZCBvZiBKdWx5LCB3aWxsIGVuZCB3aXRoIGEgcGlhbm8gDQpjcmFzaGlu ZyBpbnRvIExha2UgTWVyY2FudG91ci4gVGhlIHNlY29uZCB3aWxsIGZpbmlzaCB3aXRoIA0K aGlzIHJlY2l0YWwgc3VpdCBvbiBmaXJlIGFuZCB0aGUgdGhpcmQgd2lsbCBjdWxtaW5hdGUg d2l0aCANCnRoZSBtaWQtYWlyIGV4cGxvc2lvbiBvZiBhIGdyYW5kIHBpYW5vIHRvIG1ha2Ug dGhlIHN0YXRlbWVudCANCnRoYXQgInRoZSBjb25jZXJ0IGlzIGRlYWQuIg0KDQpBZnRlciB0 aGUgY29uY2VydHMsIER1Y2hhYmxlIHBsYW5zIHRvIHN0cmFwIGEgcG9ydGFibGUgDQprZXli b2FyZCB0byBoaXMgYmljeWNsZSBhbmQgcGVkYWwgYXJvdW5kIEZyYW5jZSBnaXZpbmcgDQpp bXByb21wdHUgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2VzLCB0aGUgVGltZXMgc2F5cy4NCg0KIkkgaGF2ZSBoYWQg ZW5vdWdoIG9mIHNhY3JpZmljaW5nIG15IGxpZmUgZm9yIDEgcGVyIGNlbnQgb2YgDQp0aGUg cG9wdWxhdGlvbiIgRHVjaGFibGUgc2FpZC4gIkkgaGF2ZSBoYWQgZW5vdWdoIG9mIA0KcGFy dGljaXBhdGluZyBpbiBhIG11c2ljYWwgc3lzdGVtIHdoaWNoLCBpbiBGcmFuY2UgYXQgbGVh c3QsIA0KZnVuY3Rpb25zIGJhZGx5IGFuZCBsaW1pdHMgY2xhc3NpY2FsIG11c2ljIHRvIGFu IGVsaXRlLiINCg0KRHVjaGFibGUgd29uIHRoZSBwcmVzdGlnaW91cyBRdWVlbiBFbGlzYWJl dGggUHJpemUgaW4gDQpCcnVzc2VscyBhdCBhZ2UgMTYgaW4gMTk3MyBhbmQgaGFzIHJlY2Vp dmVkIGF3YXJkcyBmb3IgaGlzIA0KcGVyZm9ybWFuY2VzIGFuZCByZWNvcmRpbmdzIG9mIENo b3BpbiwgTGlzenQgYW5kIFBvdWxlbmMuDQoNClBoaWxpcCBOaWtvbGF5ZXYgJiBLYXRpYSBL YXBvdmljaCwgZWRzLg0KRnVsY3J1bSBBbm51YWwNCjMzNCBIYXJ2YXJkIFN0cmVldCwgU3Vp dGUgRC0yDQpDYW1icmlkZ2UsIE1BIDAyMTM5LCBVU0ENCnBob25lIDYxNy04NjQtNzg3NA0K ZS1tYWlsIGVkaXRvckBmdWxjcnVtcG9ldHJ5LmNvbQ0K ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:28:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Discrete Series / Chicago Poetry Event MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ______THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030______ presents Bob Harrison :: Ray Bianchi :: Daniel Borzutsky [Bob Harrison moved to this country from Panama at the age of seven, at which point he first began learning English. After having lived in various places throughout the country, including Boston and San Francisco, he now lives in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He edits Crayon, a journal of arts and poetry, with Andrew Levy.] [A native of Suburban Chicago Ray Bianchi was educated at the University of Iowa, lived and worked for most of the 1990s in Bolivia where he worked in the prison of St. Sebastian as a volunteer and advocate for inmates. Later he worked in Brazil where he became involved in poetic groups and movements. After returning to the USA in 1998 he became involved in groups in the USA including Texas Writers Garret and the Garret Poets Workshop. Ray has published poetry in Znine, Poetry Magazine.com Illya's Honey, Red River Review, The Economist and AfterWords] [Daniel Borzutzky is twenty-eight years old. He teaches at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. His work has appeared in COLUMBIA, LVNG, Third Bed, Antennae, Journal of Experimental Fiction, Minus Times, Cimarron Review, New Orleans Review, Snow Monkey and Jacob's Ladder.] Friday, July 11 9PM / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / BYOB 3030 is a former Pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., one block south of Armitage between Humboldt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series will present an event of poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. For more information about this or upcoming events, email j_seldess@hotmail.com or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com, or call the space at 773-862-3616. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:50:29 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Silliman on Lowell Comments: To: bks cuny In-Reply-To: <200307012101.19xyOs5hw3NZFjV0@sparrow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been writing up a storm of sorts on my blog of late -- hence my lack of contribution to the listservs. It's probably all nonsense anyway but I invite you to check it out: Silliman on Lowell http://www.arras.net/weblog/000694.html The "Third Way", etc. http://www.arras.net/weblog/000700.html *** The "Third Way," etc. This is in response to something Kasey wrote on his blog, which includes at the moment writing by both him and Michael Magee that is worth reading if you have any interest in this debate: My sense is: so much as you permit there being "two ways," there will have to -- especially for a good Hegelian -- be a third way. But if one lives in a universe of heterogenous (however provisional) wholes coming in conflict with each other at all points, none with compelling claims to be more ascendant than others (this is, of course, possible), then these "thirds" will always themselves be provisional, and are if anything aids to thinking. (If these "claims" are compelling, then the "third ways" tend to have a revolutionary aspect to them -- as it might have in England when Pound was there -- performing what might be the function of a "second" or "other" way. It's obviously most salient when a language -- such as Italian -- is being used for the first time to peform in fashions usually reserved for other languages, in this example, Latin. We have no such divide right now unless someone were to attempt a poem or novel in Black American English -- far as I know.) If one were to put on a small books shelf Pierre Guyotat's Eden Eden Eden , Gertrude Stein's Tender Buttons and William Burrough's Naked Lunch, then put -- on the other side of the bookshelf -- Robert Lowell's Life Studies, Edgar Lee Master's Spoon River Anthology and even -- for kicks -- the collected Robert Frost or the Amy Lowell of "Patterns" -- her exploitation of the idea of "imagism" -- you could probably place most Language poetry somewhere in between. Language poetry often has the reproducibility of form that one associates with the latter writers -- one hits upon something and is able to exploit it for an impressive duration -- with the modernist charge of the former -- desparate acts of creation often involving ephemerality and "failure" -- but in neither case entirely sacrifices a claim to "realism" entirely (at least among the Americans, who can often recuperate their work into a philosophy of pragmatism), nor to a secure position in relation to national norms of discourse (i.e. what is not allowed to be said). I.e. the very functionality of the method seems to preclude there being as negative a charge as might occur in a neo-romantic vein (whether our neo-romantic be Rimbaud, Kafka or Beckett -- and these are hardly Romantics!). I'm being schematic here (and maybe confusing), but certainly, much of RS's writing will tend toward the side of autobiographical, and more or less dispassionate, social realists than it will on the side of the fiery or oddball, truly "negative" writing of the formal innovators. This doesn't make it "bad" writing -- I'm a fan of much of his work, obviously, just look at /ubu -- but because a formal technique is being employed (in his case the "new sentence," which never, frankly, struck me as radical) hardly spares a poem (such as his tiring, distracted Roof book "N/O") from being branded as passive -- about language, about society, about issues of epistemology and genre. What can be more "quietudinous" than a passivity regarding these issues? In comparison, the tortured, jagged, compressed rhythms of Lowell's "The Skunk Hour" come off as punk rock. I don't think any Language poet with the exception of Bruce Andrews (and maybe Bernstein and Watten) has taken the project of the evisceration of national social (or linguistic) mores to the same extremes thant the great French tradition (or anti-tradition) of Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Lautreamont, Jarry, the Situationists (Guyotat is often identified as one of them), etc. -- not to mention predecessors Rousseau or de Sade. Most Language writing looks quite polite and "healthy" in comparison, at least from this perspective -- the Protestant ethic of the good work done daily in order to "make it new" appears as a subprogram of much of this writing. This is not a statement about American poetry as a whole -- that's more complex -- or all of Language poetry -- the fragmentary nature of Bernstein's early and middle-period writing seems to me attentive to this ethics of failure, of anti-systemicity, in "hot" modernism -- but oddly, someone like Plath occupies a more critical space -- there with Ginsberg and Burroughs -- than one would think. There is an "out on a limb" aspect to what she was trying to do that is impressive to me, and her later method doesn't strike me as less "radical" than that of, say, Rae Armantrout -- quite the contrary, in fact. When I hear about a truly national debate (or maybe a good essay by Christopher Hitchens) about the unquietudinous-ness of Language poetry then I will be impressed -- so far, it has not happened. There's nothing wrong with this, of course, I just don't understand how one can point to a "lineage" in one's writing as somehow conferring a badge on a writer as being on the good side of a -- presumed, but in my mind quite "imaginary" -- literary divide. To suggest Language poets as somehow sweating in the trenches and other poets not -- categorically -- strikes me as nonsense. And it always seems to involve the rather limited purview of "American" writing -- observing how the two principled, dueling Scots, MacDiarmid and Finlay, came to a rapprochement at the end of the former's career should be illustrative of where the future -- for "us" -- lies. Much of this won't matter: the 1200 pages of The Alphabet will be judged on its own merits as something to read, as will the 60 or so pages of Life Studies. We can only guess why these works will be interesting in the future, one that may not even have room for such concepts as "perfect binding." (P.S. It's ironic that, in that bit from Duncan, he quotes the end of the Lowell poem about Delmore Schwartz. My favorite ending of a Duncan poem is that one in which some attention to different registers of style in contrapuntal play is demonstrated, and that ends: A second: a moose painted by Stubbs, where last year's extravagent antler's lie on the ground. The forlorn moosey-faced poem wears new antler-buds, the same, "a little heavy, a little contrived," his only beauty to be all moose. It's actually the same kind of compression that Lowell brings in at the end fo the Schwartz poem -- a sudden swerve from the dominant, even heroic, meter into a bathetic, skipping tone, finally focusing on a fine point at the end as if the poem were balanced on a pin, like some geological balancing act out in the Yellowstone Park. Duncan almost seems drunk here himself -- and I like it. Ironically, the climas results in a telescoped image of an animal (or animal part) -- "strong" imagism, a la white chickens, coming to save the day again. Few poets were more afraid of letting his metrics be taken over by anything as vulgar as social realism or speech as Duncan -- I find so much of him unreadable because of all the gaudy European trappings, the Pound-envy, the loping "stately" rhythms and capitalized Nouns, like he were Philip Sydney and didn't know better, or Mallarme, enriching every detail with "correspondence". I guess I just never believed he had as much access to higher states of knowledge than the rest of us -- I hope it's fair to be suspicious here, since he made some huge claims. In terms of "fear" versus "freedom," I'm not sure that Duncan wins. One is, after all, quite free before the "void" -- it is, after all, the evacuation of meaning that provided some of the bases for the theory of Language writing itself (and that brought Mallarme himself to start slinging words across the page like dice). When Duncan starts psycho-analyzing his writers -- Spicer is apparently the poet of "death" while he himself was of life, or sex, or whatever, from my dim memory of the Spicer biography -- one must -- as a good iconoclast and heretic -- recoil, as it's clear such oppositional binaries are only intended to create the image of power around the naming creature, ye who sets terms (terms being, in themselves, very useful). Sacrificing this power for the sake of flows, on the one hand, or in service of the dialectic, on the other, seems to me to be imperative -- if that doesn't sound too much like a "spiritual" disposition. But they must at the same time be questioned at all moments if possible -- why not, seems to me the only confirmation of living that is reliable. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:04:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET Subject: heraldsun.com article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, =09This is an automated e-mail from heraldsun.com. Ron Silliman has asked u= s to send you the following article, which can also be found online at: htt= p://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-368279.html. Ron Silliman also added these comments: But will Lester make an appearance? ----- Bard is well-versed in Carrboro's character July 3, 2003 By Susan Broili, The Herald-Sun=20 It happened once. And, now it's happened again. Carrboro has its second poe= t laureate. =20 Patrick Herron, 32, takes over the helm as town bard officially today w= hen he makes his first public appearance at the town's July Fourth festivit= ies at town hall. At 1:10 p.m. "after the square dancers and before the clo= ggers," he'll read the poem that won him the position. =20 The first part of his poem is meant to be sung, but Herron plans to rea= d it. =20 "I have a terrible singing voice," Herron said Thursday during an inter= view at the Carrboro home he shares with his wife, Janet, boxer Hooch and c= ats Cobweb and Rosemary. =20 In his poem, he mixes the personal and the public as he celebrates the = town he loves. =20 It was just these qualities that convinced the town's first poet laurea= te, Kate Lovelady, to choose Herron as the town's next poet from about a do= zen applicants who had to submit a poem based on the theme of Independence = Day to be considered for the honor. =20 "What I liked about his poem was his combination of public and private = images in a nice way. He seemed to really love Carrboro but still be able t= o see it very clear-eyed. It wasn't sentimental at all," Lovelady said. "He= was so exuberant to write such a long poem I thought he would make a good = poet laureate." =20 He'll have to see how the reading goes to decide whether his future off= icial poems will be as long, Lovelady added. =20 Herron is definitely enthusiastic about Carrboro, where he has lived fo= r almost 15 years. =20 "It's a really progressive, small town with a lot of charm, into arts a= nd music. It's a great town to be a writer or painter or musician," Herron = said. =20 The fact that Carrboro is the only municipality in the state with its o= wn poet laureate pleases him. =20 "If anything, it's saying, `We value the arts.' I think that's fantasti= c," Herron said. =20 He also has a little fun, in his poem, with the town's progressive qui= rks, such as taking a stand by defending the French amidst the recent criti= cism that country received here, in which some people took to calling frenc= h fries freedom fries. =20 In his poem, he writes: "We call ourselves the Paris of the Piedmont be= cause we have a sense of humor. Elsewhere under this radiant sky we share, = you can get your Freedom Fries." =20 And he pokes fun at some clich=C3=A9s about Southern writers by referri= ng to four different types of plants by name. "To be a sophisticated Southe= rn poet, one must know the horticulture," he said. =20 Herron wanted to be poet laureate to share locally the work that has wo= n him success elsewhere in the past two years. He will have poems published= this fall in The Iowa Review and Exquisite Corpse. =20 The poet gained early support and recognition for his poems via the Int= ernet, after he joined an on-line poetry discussion group. =20 He also wants to use the position to start a poetry series or festival = in which he'll invite local and other poets to read, featuring "people who = are moving the art form forward but are not part of the establishment." = =20 Although Herron has written poetry since he was 15 and still living in = the Philadelphia area where he grew up, he got serious about it after a per= sonal tragedy six years ago when his best friend, Chris Lewis, 26, died in = a fire. =20 Lewis had encouraged him to pursue poetry and told him he would be mise= rable as a doctor. Herron was enrolled in the pre-med program at N.C. State= at the time. =20 "After he died, I listened to him," Herron said. =20 So, Herron began writing poetry every day -- a practice he continues ev= en though he is currently working on a master's degree in information scien= ce at UNC, where he majored in philosophy and linguistics as an undergradua= te. He also works as a freelance computer programmer. =20 Four years ago, he became one of six poets selected to participate in = a master class with poet James Tate in New York. Then, David Kellogg, a tea= cher at Duke University and president of the Durham-based Carolina Wren Pre= ss, introduced him to an on-line poetry discussion group, and he began gett= ing invitations to submit his work. =20 Lovelady said that she was struck by how different Herron's poetry is f= rom what she writes, and thought the town could use some variety. = =20 For instance, Herron said the poem that will be published in Exquisite = Corpse consists entirely of synonyms for death written in a musical form he= invented. =20 But, in many ways, the poem he submitted in the poet laureate contest i= s different from what he usually writes. His wife, Janet, said she thought = writing official poems for the town would be good for him. =20 "So much of what he writes is so esoteric. This is more approachable an= d personal," Janet Herron said of the poem that won her husband the title o= f poet laureate. =20 Still, Patrick Herron plans to write even official poems as only he can= . =20 "I love ambiguity. It can eliminate the facts of the world and get to a= state of feelings," he said. "It's not the facts of the moment but the fee= lings that are important." =20 =20 Editor's note: This is the poem that won Patrick Herron the title of Carr= boro poet laureate. Carrboro's first poet laureate, Kate Lovelady, served a= s judge for this year's selection. Herron will read his poem at 1:10 p.m. t= oday at Carrboro Town Hall as part of the town's Fourth of July festivities= . =20 =20 Independence day sky sing us a fire red hue =20 with your gospel bass notes intoning glacial =20 blue. =20 Independence night set our hands hearts and =20 heads ablaze =20 with the music of fireworks evaporating this thick =20 evening haze. =20 =20 It's been ten years today =20 since I first asked you. =20 Ten years of waking up =20 inside you. Ten years. =20 Do you remember =20 that sticky July evening =20 we watched fireworks from =20 the strip mall parking lot =20 along the highway? =20 Independence Day was somehow our =20 first dependence day and we agreed, =20 we agreed. We chose to say =20 we will live here, =20 together among the loblollies =20 and the metal sticks that point us =20 to everywhere else, the signposts =20 carrying signs that try to remind us =20 this town is not the only place. =20 Raleigh, 25 miles. Durham, =20 12 miles, Chapel Hill, 1 mile. =20 Some of the signs seem holy, =20 bullet piercings appearing as if the =20 wounded DMV signs =20 were photographed just =20 before bursting into flame. =20 It's that hot here in July. =20 But we discovered why to stick =20 together, inside each other, =20 as each other, that is. It had little =20 to do with the vinyl seat =20 sticking to us. =20 That's how some places grow, =20 in you not on you. The ones that =20 stay, not go on. `On you' is =20 parasitic, a fungus, something to =20 be rid of like an infection =20 but `in you' is =20 love, a phrase of affection. =20 As evidence of that growth =20 I can offer you only =20 a handshake or =20 a wave as you pass by in your car, =20 or simply my helping hand, =20 We call ourselves =20 Paris of the Piedmont because =20 we have a sense of humor. Elsewhere =20 under this radiant sky we share, =20 you can get your Freedom Fries. =20 Here some still call our fries French =20 and we all relish the right to do so. =20 So look here at my palm. =20 In it is me, it is I; =20 it is a map of you, =20 it is you. I can no longer =20 discern where you end =20 and I begin. You open your hands, =20 a silent gesture of submission. =20 Look here, this is =20 Hillsborough Road, your heart line, =20 where you hope and grow and dream =20 freely, under the willow oak =20 beside the billow of hydrangea; ours sometimes sky blue when we choose. = =20 Hillsborough meets Greensboro Street, =20 the brain line, this artery to school, =20 conducting me to such places as =20 that apartment on Hanna Street =20 so many people ago =20 when you were still here with me =20 or all those long conversations =20 about fixing an oppressed world =20 when the town around us was =20 working perfectly. Food before =20 morality. Weaver Street =20 the life line, of course, without which =20 I just might not eat. =20 And this crooked line =20 intersecting all of them =20 is my Main Street, my destiny =20 line. This line is a =20 scar, actually. It stems from =20 when I wrecked my bicycle after =20 a crooked evening on you. =20 Main Street, o you I love, =20 `how do you do,' you say so sweetly, =20 even if your traffic signals =20 are so poorly timed. It's all true. =20 That night, the sky drove =20 a car in the dark. One headlight =20 was out, but the other glowed =20 as a disc of mercury, or =20 like a spotlight outside some giant =20 auto dealership in the sky. =20 I remember you, your car wreck. =20 Under that moonlight we bled. =20 The same moonlight, =20 in the same moonlight, =20 this place, this Main Street =20 where I wished a part of you, =20 some say all of you, =20 goodbye. Don't go. You must =20 stay here in this place. Here =20 at this somewhere where =20 the heaving charcoal clouds =20 are bearable, this where we =20 are able to speak happily =20 among us, we who are passing =20 by street or by clock. A home =20 is where we bear =20 the yoke of life's misfortunes =20 yet choose to stay a little longer. =20 Buoyancy is a wonder for us, we =20 who live to see we are afloat. =20 Because something better =20 is soon within reach, because =20 the whisper of these `Carrburra' streets =20 is, `we can, we can.' Here is a town =20 where it is not so important =20 who we are as separate beings =20 but as interdependent wrinkles. =20 folding together on a hand, and =20 where my end is where you =20 began. This is the place =20 where I forget what it is =20 that distinguishes and separates =20 me from you, you Carrboro, =20 you who wishes to infuse =20 your self among us until =20 we feel it common for us =20 to meet upon the streets =20 of your gentle contradiction =20 in freedom, hand in hand. =20 =20 =09COPYRIGHT 2003 by The Durham Herald Company. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Chris I need your email In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Murray Send me your email via back channel ok? Ray > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Christine Murray > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:41 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Edward Said on Rachel Corrie > > > Gabriel, > > Thanks very much for posting the Said--a noteworthy approach he > takes, using > the occasion in part as a platform to spur more (much needed) proactive > approaches from Arab countries. As a writer, Said's expository mix is > always interesting. I found this a provocative one and have posted an > excerpt on Texfiles (with a link to Conchology--I hope you don't mind?). > > Chris Murray > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:28:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Concussion of Stupidity In-Reply-To: <000001c3432b$31ffac80$a650a243@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Walked over in Times Square Touching her sleeping breasts they suddenly opened like sharp spikes of a railroad bridge ripped in two. The trees filled with a silver light growing with contaminants far from the river. A cluster of barbed wire riddled with pieces of fur and flesh. The Artist died in 1916 in a ditch filled with water and rot. Lacerations colored her white raw nakedness . I won’t repeat the things she said to me smeared with sand and kisses I took her away from the river. I behaved like what I am ;a thick fingered faux man asking the wrong questions at the wrong time in loud bleats like a pig being cut and dressed for the first time. A porous border sits between the colors that matter and the colors that don’ t Nothing here is profoundly American but a collection of nuts and bolts and colors and old shoes that have no more use for us except to take up space in the back seat of an old Chevy. . Europe has assembled an American place of extreme and dangerous sensuality. They stand to be painted with big fleshy posteriors or large breasts that don’t seem to fit high-heeled nudes, dancers and circus acrobats; pensive girls who seem so aware of being looked at and are used to the spotlight. They want to live the laid back bohemian life but it is not possible since smoking is now illegal ;thinking is regulated and we are not allowed to wear black anymore. The twists and distortions are a kind of energized mental jar bouncing and causing your brain to slosh around and hit the sides of your skull. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:36:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: heraldsun.com article In-Reply-To: <4539958.1057431897994.JavaMail.SYSTEM@main> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable kudos patrick, and thanks ron. this is charming; made my day. one friend has taken to calling july 4 interdependence day and making a point of celebrating planetary interbeing. At 3:04 PM -0400 7/5/03, ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET wrote: >Hello, > This is an automated e-mail from heraldsun.com. Ron Silliman >has asked us to send you the following article, which can also be >found online at: http://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-368279.html. > >Ron Silliman also added these comments: >But will Lester make an appearance? > >----- > >Bard is well-versed in Carrboro's character >July 3, 2003 > >By Susan Broili, The Herald-Sun >It happened once. And, now it's happened again. Carrboro has its >second poet laureate. > > Patrick Herron, 32, takes over the helm as town bard officially >today when he makes his first public appearance at the town's July >Fourth festivities at town hall. At 1:10 p.m. "after the square >dancers and before the cloggers," he'll read the poem that won him >the position. > > The first part of his poem is meant to be sung, but Herron plans >to read it. > > "I have a terrible singing voice," Herron said Thursday during >an interview at the Carrboro home he shares with his wife, Janet, >boxer Hooch and cats Cobweb and Rosemary. > > In his poem, he mixes the personal and the public as he >celebrates the town he loves. > > It was just these qualities that convinced the town's first poet >laureate, Kate Lovelady, to choose Herron as the town's next poet >from about a dozen applicants who had to submit a poem based on the >theme of Independence Day to be considered for the honor. > > "What I liked about his poem was his combination of public and >private images in a nice way. He seemed to really love Carrboro but >still be able to see it very clear-eyed. It wasn't sentimental at >all," Lovelady said. "He was so exuberant to write such a long poem >I thought he would make a good poet laureate." > > He'll have to see how the reading goes to decide whether his >future official poems will be as long, Lovelady added. > > Herron is definitely enthusiastic about Carrboro, where he has >lived for almost 15 years. > > "It's a really progressive, small town with a lot of charm, into >arts and music. It's a great town to be a writer or painter or >musician," Herron said. > > The fact that Carrboro is the only municipality in the state >with its own poet laureate pleases him. > > "If anything, it's saying, `We value the arts.' I think that's >fantastic," Herron said. > > He also has a little fun, in his poem, with the town's >progressive quirks, such as taking a stand by defending the French >amidst the recent criticism that country received here, in which >some people took to calling french fries freedom fries. > > In his poem, he writes: "We call ourselves the Paris of the >Piedmont because we have a sense of humor. Elsewhere under this >radiant sky we share, you can get your Freedom Fries." > > And he pokes fun at some clich=E9s about Southern writers by >referring to four different types of plants by name. "To be a >sophisticated Southern poet, one must know the horticulture," he >said. > > Herron wanted to be poet laureate to share locally the work that >has won him success elsewhere in the past two years. He will have >poems published this fall in The Iowa Review and Exquisite >Corpse. > > The poet gained early support and recognition for his poems via >the Internet, after he joined an on-line poetry discussion >group. > > He also wants to use the position to start a poetry series or >festival in which he'll invite local and other poets to read, >featuring "people who are moving the art form forward but are not >part of the establishment." > > Although Herron has written poetry since he was 15 and still >living in the Philadelphia area where he grew up, he got serious >about it after a personal tragedy six years ago when his best >friend, Chris Lewis, 26, died in a fire. > > Lewis had encouraged him to pursue poetry and told him he would >be miserable as a doctor. Herron was enrolled in the pre-med program >at N.C. State at the time. > > "After he died, I listened to him," Herron said. > > So, Herron began writing poetry every day -- a practice he >continues even though he is currently working on a master's degree >in information science at UNC, where he majored in philosophy and >linguistics as an undergraduate. He also works as a freelance >computer programmer. > > Four years ago, he became one of six poets selected to >participate in a master class with poet James Tate in New York. >Then, David Kellogg, a teacher at Duke University and president of >the Durham-based Carolina Wren Press, introduced him to an on-line >poetry discussion group, and he began getting invitations to submit >his work. > > Lovelady said that she was struck by how different Herron's >poetry is from what she writes, and thought the town could use some >variety. > > For instance, Herron said the poem that will be published in >Exquisite Corpse consists entirely of synonyms for death written in >a musical form he invented. > > But, in many ways, the poem he submitted in the poet laureate >contest is different from what he usually writes. His wife, Janet, >said she thought writing official poems for the town would be good >for him. > > "So much of what he writes is so esoteric. This is more >approachable and personal," Janet Herron said of the poem that won >her husband the title of poet laureate. > > Still, Patrick Herron plans to write even official poems as only >he can. > > "I love ambiguity. It can eliminate the facts of the world and >get to a state of feelings," he said. "It's not the facts of the >moment but the feelings that are important." > > > > Editor's note: This is the poem that won Patrick Herron the title >of Carrboro poet laureate. Carrboro's first poet laureate, Kate >Lovelady, served as judge for this year's selection. Herron will >read his poem at 1:10 p.m. today at Carrboro Town Hall as part of >the town's Fourth of July festivities. > > > > Independence day sky sing us a fire red hue > > with your gospel bass notes intoning glacial > > blue. > > Independence night set our hands hearts and > > heads ablaze > > with the music of fireworks evaporating this thick > > evening haze. > > > > It's been ten years today > > since I first asked you. > > Ten years of waking up > > inside you. Ten years. > > Do you remember > > that sticky July evening > > we watched fireworks from > > the strip mall parking lot > > along the highway? > > Independence Day was somehow our > > first dependence day and we agreed, > > we agreed. We chose to say > > we will live here, > > together among the loblollies > > and the metal sticks that point us > > to everywhere else, the signposts > > carrying signs that try to remind us > > this town is not the only place. > > Raleigh, 25 miles. Durham, > > 12 miles, Chapel Hill, 1 mile. > > Some of the signs seem holy, > > bullet piercings appearing as if the > > wounded DMV signs > > were photographed just > > before bursting into flame. > > It's that hot here in July. > > But we discovered why to stick > > together, inside each other, > > as each other, that is. It had little > > to do with the vinyl seat > > sticking to us. > > That's how some places grow, > > in you not on you. The ones that > > stay, not go on. `On you' is > > parasitic, a fungus, something to > > be rid of like an infection > > but `in you' is > > love, a phrase of affection. > > As evidence of that growth > > I can offer you only > > a handshake or > > a wave as you pass by in your car, > > or simply my helping hand, > > We call ourselves > > Paris of the Piedmont because > > we have a sense of humor. Elsewhere > > under this radiant sky we share, > > you can get your Freedom Fries. > > Here some still call our fries French > > and we all relish the right to do so. > > So look here at my palm. > > In it is me, it is I; > > it is a map of you, > > it is you. I can no longer > > discern where you end > > and I begin. You open your hands, > > a silent gesture of submission. > > Look here, this is > > Hillsborough Road, your heart line, > > where you hope and grow and dream > > freely, under the willow oak > > beside the billow of hydrangea; ours sometimes sky blue when we >choose. > > Hillsborough meets Greensboro Street, > > the brain line, this artery to school, > > conducting me to such places as > > that apartment on Hanna Street > > so many people ago > > when you were still here with me > > or all those long conversations > > about fixing an oppressed world > > when the town around us was > > working perfectly. Food before > > morality. Weaver Street > > the life line, of course, without which > > I just might not eat. > > And this crooked line > > intersecting all of them > > is my Main Street, my destiny > > line. This line is a > > scar, actually. It stems from > > when I wrecked my bicycle after > > a crooked evening on you. > > Main Street, o you I love, > > `how do you do,' you say so sweetly, > > even if your traffic signals > > are so poorly timed. It's all true. > > That night, the sky drove > > a car in the dark. One headlight > > was out, but the other glowed > > as a disc of mercury, or > > like a spotlight outside some giant > > auto dealership in the sky. > > I remember you, your car wreck. > > Under that moonlight we bled. > > The same moonlight, > > in the same moonlight, > > this place, this Main Street > > where I wished a part of you, > > some say all of you, > > goodbye. Don't go. You must > > stay here in this place. Here > > at this somewhere where > > the heaving charcoal clouds > > are bearable, this where we > > are able to speak happily > > among us, we who are passing > > by street or by clock. A home > > is where we bear > > the yoke of life's misfortunes > > yet choose to stay a little longer. > > Buoyancy is a wonder for us, we > > who live to see we are afloat. > > Because something better > > is soon within reach, because > > the whisper of these `Carrburra' streets > > is, `we can, we can.' Here is a town > > where it is not so important > > who we are as separate beings > > but as interdependent wrinkles. > > folding together on a hand, and > > where my end is where you > > began. This is the place > > where I forget what it is > > that distinguishes and separates > > me from you, you Carrboro, > > you who wishes to infuse > > your self among us until > > we feel it common for us > > to meet upon the streets > > of your gentle contradiction > > in freedom, hand in hand. > > > > > COPYRIGHT 2003 by The Durham Herald Company. All rights reserved. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:56:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Test; ignore MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a test to see if the message comes through as plain text. Sorry! Philip ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:18:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: help with citation to poetics journal MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, can anyone backchannel me the issue of Poetics Journal in which Bob Perelman's review of Jameson's Political Unconscious appears, and the page numbers (my copies are packed away in another city)... Thanks in advance, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: places to live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Maria Damon, I just got back from that area -- spending nine days with extended family and miraculously no fights! Only one stomach flu. Delaware Water Gap used to be called the Eighth Wonder of the World -- it's where the Delaware River slices through the Appalachian Mountains. The river at that point is about a mile wide, and is rather scenic. Would be more so if a roaring highway didn't go from there straight into NYC about an hour and twenty minutes hence on Route 80. There is a town called Delaware Water Gap. I used to go there to get drugs while in high school. You could always count on hashish and pot, especially if you went to a place called Deer Head Inn, which is filled with deer heads, and a ten foot wide urinal. Many jazz players once lived in this small town of 500 -- Zoot Sims, Bob Dorough, and many many others. Every night the piano in the Deer Head went from six pm to four in the morning. If anybody's ever heard of Fred Waring -- his group maintains a large studio there. The town is cute with nice parks, and is right off the Appalachian trail (there is an info center there for the trail) and now somebody has come in and put in a to-scale Stonehenge at a place called Columcille -- a New Age place about ten minutes up in the mountains near a New Age conference center called Kirkridge. There are labyrinths and large stone churches set in the hills in striking poses. The news is that Columbians have started using the place to distribute cocaine because the local airport isn't patrolled at all and yet flies small planes to Chicago and the west coast. Maria, I haven't lived there for a long time -- just some family left there -- when I did live there it was all hippies, but a lot of those people have become heads of insurance companies, joined the CIA (I'm not kidding -- a guy who blew up the local draft recruiting office in 1973 is now a big guy in the CIA), and so on. Hippy life is just too hard to maintain without a trust fund. But you can see (or hear) the end of it at the Deer Head Inn, at Delaware Water Gap. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:31:38 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: places to live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Maria Damon, and others on the places thread -- In addition to the Deer Heads, there are still a lot of potheads. I went over for a non-alcoholic beer and saw them lighting up on the porch. I didn't recognize any specific people -- but recognized the scarf around the head, the lack of a good shave, the hiking boots and flannel shirts, etc. It reminded me very much of where I went to college, too, at Evergreen -- whose major export seems to be radical people who like nature. I used to really try to love nature, but only like Linden trees now, becuase they have such smooth bark. You can kiss them without injury! Oh, another thing: I went to the Allentown Bethlehem Easton area for a look-see. That looked built-up and yet is older, and has neighborhoods. I went to the library at Muhlenberg College. I'm doing a study of formerly Lutheran colleges. What happened, etc. There used to be 42 of these, and now most of them have voted to oust their synod affiliation. It has to do with money, mainly -- there is more money to be gotten as a secular school that doesn't discriminate on the basis of religion. So almost all of the Lutheran schools have caved in. I think St. Olaf's and Valparaiso and a few others still maintain Lutheran priorities in student and professional staffing. Others have caved in to EOP and Affirmative Action rulings in order to get government subsidies. Muhlenberg for instance just got rid of 21 of their 22 Lutheran clergy on their Board of Trustees and replaced them with good solid businessmen. Now over half the student body is Jewish, and the rest are mostly Catholic. One guy in the English department told me there are still a few old Lutherans skulking around but nobody can stand them since they are so dour. They have a gorgeous neo-Gothic Cathedral that is still staffed by Lutherans, and the chorus was practicing a hymn called something like "With Wounded Head I Bow Down" -- they sounded good to my dour ear. This area looked interesting to me -- lots of gingerbread houses made of brick by what looked like largely German immigrants in terms of the design -- but I didn't really know the area. Is housing expensive? I'm looking for a good small town of about 100,000, somewhere on either the east or the west coast. Not right away, mind you, but as places to check out. I like to look at cities and towns and see how they are doing, and talk to the mayor if I can, and find out about their problems. Maybe I'll even live in one again if I can find an appropriate one. Carrsboro sounds very nice, but I want to see the winning poem, and I want to know what the Poet Laureate receives as compensation. Who chose the poet laureate at Carrsboro? I think that Chaucer got a barrel of spirits and ten dollars. Is that right? I can't remember. Billy Collins gets 33 thousand, or something like that, with a place to stay in DC. How much does the Carrsboro laureate get? It isn't a lot, really, to ask say ten grand. I think that's what Amiri Baraka was getting before the 9-11 poem. Is he still employed? Should every town and village have a poet in this country? How should they be picked? What should they do? Should they write a history, as Olson did for Gloucester? How much should they be paid? Can they be impeached? Does Gloucester have a poet laureate? Perhaps it should be on the balloting -- and rival poems published in the papers, so that citizens can choose! Enough of these hand-picked appointees, already. It would be a charming institution, improbably. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:16:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: places to live Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3F0751CA.5CA36A12@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:31 PM 7/5/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Should every town and village have a poet in this country? Yes, and a court jester, and a gentleman of the mayor's closet, and an equerry, and ladies in waiting. There could even be a changing of the guard--think of the tourist dollars. Ben Frankilin must have said something relevant to all of this. Happy 5th! Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:55:21 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: tnwk site In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030705161641.0331b488@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, for those who are curious to see more of what we were up to in Cork and at TWL, cpt and in a number of wardrawings during the ongoing War On Iraq there is material under Current Projects on our upgraded site: www.tnwk.net take the splashpage image link to the second page on which there is a pull-down menu. Take either - 'we are taking these steps . . .' or 'the books in Cork'. Anybody wanting to know more about 'the books' and subscription information can access that too as the third entry under CURRENT PROJECTS. If you've feedback or comments we welcome them. love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:10:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: phenomenology of oboe and false oboe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII phenomenology of oboe playing phenomenology of false oboe and older playing $ "oboe world breathing organism" Wrong boolean value 'false' false 120 0.021391 older: whenever we breathe out the world happily responds how the mechanics of playing the oboe, in particular tendency in wind players for the breathing to be true became a single, living, breathing organism of sheer The Concerto for Oboe by Allesandro Marcello was Administrative Assistant MBG Marketing, the world true to induce it-fasting, concentration, breathing exercises, prayers of every note played on an oboe or sung by is feeling his relationship to the world exactly as true work as a living, breathing organism rather than is a curious inequality in the music world when it One of the great challenges for oboe players is to induce it: fasting, concentration, breathing exercises, prayers of every note played on an oboe or sung is feeling his relationship to the world exactly as true concentration, breathing exercises, prayers of every note played on an oboe or sung by is feeling his relationship to the world exactly as true perience.htm 51k to induce it-fasting, concentration, breathing exercises, prayers of every note played on an oboe or sung by is feeling his relationship to the world exactly as true it-fasting, concentration, breathing exercises, prayers of every note played on an oboe or sung by is feeling his relationship to the world exactly as voice Jordan Barbour, voice Ted Malawer, voice Ariana Ghez, oboe Alicia Lee Phil Kline The Blue Room Evan Ziporyn Breathing Space (world premiere) John ... to induce it-fasting, concentration, breathing exercises, prayers of every note played on an oboe or sung by is feeling his relationship to the world exactly as true 1 false oboe world breathing organism at ./looply.pl line 32 $ exit Script done on Sun Jul 6 00:04:02 2003 ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 01:09:39 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: heraldsun.com (Maria, Ron, Kirby, Mark) In-Reply-To: <200307060005826.SM01196@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks Ron, thanks Maria. Very kind of you. Very very kind. Ron, I honestly haven't seen Lester in a long time. He was traveling and was lost in luggage for a while. I occasionally hear from him but he seems to be laying low. He's depressed about Bush and doesn't want to come back to the US. It's weird to suddenly exist here in my own town, and it is very funny too, and it is also nice. Tomorrow AM I do a radio show. Another article appeared today (link below) and another will appear in two weeks. I had fun writing that fake fake poem (it also can be considered a fake flarf poem, as I had flarf in mind when writing it), playing with Southern Poet(TM) clichés, and I laughed and laughed and laughed when I learned that I won. Then I learned that the joke was on me. Funny how that works out. Now I am honestly embarrassed of the poem even in its correct from for a large number of reasons though I am repeatedly told not to be. Be careful who you even pretend to want to be I think is the lesson.... The poem is here in its "correct" form: http://www.carrboro.com/poetlaureate2003poem.html The new article: http://www.triangle.com/triangle.com/communities/chapelhill/story/2671548p-2 477085c.html or go to chapelhillnews.com, then under the news section on the right, select the first story.... (There are numerous inaccuracies in each article...I didn't want to point them out so I wouldn't be complaining. The poem in the heraldsun.com article was mutilated beyond recognition...The Iowa Review Web, not The Iowa Review, never went to London for a reading but an invite to Nottingham, etc.) Kirby! The Carrboro Poet Laureateship pays $0.00. Zip. And you already have to be a resident; and my rent still costs the same. Mark! Our Mayor is out of the closet. That eliminates the gentleman of the mayor's closet, since he has no closet & already has a steady beau, and ladies in waiting wouldn't help much. Laureates in every town would be madness! Thinking about it, there are not many towns like Carrboro where the residents would not collectively freak out if they heard their elected officials create a Poet Laureate position. And there aren't many towns or cities where a poet laureate would fit. I'll try to name where it might fit: Arcata CA, Iowa City IA, Madison WI, and maybe Ithaca NY or Providence RI or Gloucester MA or Ann Arbor MI. Portland ME? Berea KY? Berkeley CA? Athens OH or Athens GA? Minneapolis-St.Paul MN? Lawrence KS? Flagstaff AZ (where Pluto was discovered)? I'm running out of places quickly. Patrick Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:36:14 -0500 From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: heraldsun.com article kudos patrick, and thanks ron. this is charming; made my day. one friend has taken to calling july 4 interdependence day and making a point of celebrating planetary interbeing. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:32:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: MIT Watches the Government - Government Information Awareness In-Reply-To: <3F06C73A.7000706@zad.att.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://opengov.media.mit.edu/ At 09:40 PM 7/5/2003 +0900, Benjamin Basan wrote: >http://business.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2003/07/04/website_turns_tables_on_government_officials ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 03:12:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the true nikuko Nikuko flesh meat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the true nikuko Nikuko flesh meat $ "nikuko Nikuko flesh meat" Nikuko flesh-girl at war with big-eyes dead-girl. My Mythology, by Nikuko. ... They are meat-girls, Nikukos swelling into split germs and stony veins. true Are you in your flower, are you in your flesh, ah dont wouldnt recognize ourselves, no one else would either Nikuko, literally dead meat, not meat means fleshgirl or meatgirl; Niku, meat, is derogatory towards women in Japanese - and Nikuko turns the name around, finds power in the meat, the flesh. as well as proto- cols, from below, and in between, pervading and churning throughout - the _meat_ of organism (hence Nikuko, meat- or flesh- girl) as well as true ml 27k to play hippy- hop and lots of meat for the _ So I wrote this, I, Daishin Nikuko, _in relation universal conflagration generated by the smallest flesh or flash true ml 27k Mizu, water; Nikuko, meat-girl; seppuku, suicide; shite, hero or shes elsewhere, smarter with all this Nikuko-biting, oh Im an inch of flesh, all necessary true you in your flesh, ah don OFFICE Jennifer you and me both, Nikuko Nikuko, I else would either Nikuko, literally dead meat, not meat true were hoods Down the street. They thought she was meat. Nikuko dead-girl the hell with all of this! Nikuko flesh-girl at war with big-eyes dead-girl. knives leaning towards scarred world-flesh 3 sometimes Certainly Nikuko is surpassing, because she is inspiration and breathing and demi-urge meat-girl big true That I Would ContributeTHAT I WOULD NECESSARY CONTRIBUTE Nikuko, Nikuko@oita.com and mindlezz as julu takez a stake [a meat stance, flesh taunted] the false nikuko Nikuko ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 08:34:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics [plain text message] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics, No 2. Issue theme: "Philosophies of Poetry" ISSN 1534-7877. Large octavo. 400 pages. Perfectbound paperback. Illustrated. EDITORS: Philip Nikolayev, Katia Kapovich CONTRIBUTING EDITORS: Pam Brown (Australia), Billy Collins (US), Fred D'Aguiar (Caribbean), Brian Henry (US), W. N. Herbert (UK), Michael Hulse (UK), Robert Kelly (US), David Kennedy (UK), John Kinsella (Australia), August Kleinzahler (US), Ben Mazer (US), Paul Muldoon (US), Greg O'Brien (New Zealand), Michael Palmer (US), Marjorie Perloff (US), John Tranter (Australia) POETRY by: Charles Bernstein, Billy Collins, William Corbett, W.N.Herbert, Yunte Huang, Michael Hulse, Louis Simpson, Michael Palmer, John Kinsella, Ben Mazer, John Tranter, David Baratier, Jennifer Barber, Martin Bennett, George Bilgere, David Bircumshaw, Melanie Challenger, James Cherry, Douglas Clark, Lisa Cooper, Christina Daub, Mark DuCharme, George Ellenbogen, Michael Farrell, Henry Gould, Joe Green, Paul Hardacre, John Hennessy, Patrick Herron, Ranjit Hoskote, Jill Jones, W.B.Keckler, S.K.Kelen, Russell Keziere, John Koethe, Mark Lamoureux, John Latta, Alan Loney, Andrew McCord, Christopher McDermott, Elisabeth Murawski, Rich Murphy, Vivek Narayanan, Gregory O'Brien, Fan Ogilvie, Ethan Paquin, Michael Radich, Steve Shoemaker, Jeet Thayil LEADING RUSSIAN POETS in translation: Alexei Tsvetkov, Sergey Gandlevsky, Lev Rubinstein. (Translators: Philip Metres, Tatiana Tulchinsky, Philip Nikolayev) FULCRUM DEBATE: Charles Bernstein and Marjorie Perloff, A Conversation INTERVIEWS with Billy Collins and Joseph Brodsky ESSAYS BY POETS: John Kinsella, Michael Palmer, Ben Mazer (revealing a previously undiscovered source for T. S. Eliot's The Waste Land), E. Cavazza (the previously undiscovered source for T. S. Eliot's The Waste Land, in its first republication!), Joe Green, Mark Weiss, Sergey Gandlevsky, Alexei Tsvetkov ESSAYS BY PHILOSOPHERS: Hugh Bredin, Mikhail Iampolski, John Koethe, Michael Prince, Michael Radich, Francis Raven EDITORIAL: Poetic Anarchy (Fulcrum's own philosophy of poetry) VISUAL ART: (1) Mstislav Dobuzhinsky: 20+ exquisite, little-known black and white drawings from Michael Kovner's private collection (by the leading Russian Mir Iskusstva ('World of Art') artist) + a brief biography of the artist by M. Kovner; (2) Mikhail Iampolski's essay on V. Komar and A. Melamid (Russian avant garde artists, founders of the Sots Art movement) discussing their latest work, with small black and white reproductions. FULCRUM recently received a citation from National Public Radio's "The Poem and the Poet" for Excellence in Print 2003 SUBSCRIPTION rates in the US are $15 per issue for individuals, $30 for institutions. Overseas subscriptions are $20 and $40 per issue, respectively. $5 discount on 3-issue subscriptions. Send check or money order drawn in US currency and payable to Fulcrum Annual to the editorial address below. Fulcrum is DISTRIBUTED in the US by Ingram Periodicals (1240 Heil Quaker Boulevard, PO Box 7000, La Verge, TN 37086-7000; 800-627-MAGS) and Bernhard DeBoer, Inc. (113 East Centre Street, Nutley, NJ 07110; 973-667-9300). NOTE: Copies of Fulcrum 1 ("A Map of English-language Poetry") are still available for $15 postpaid in the US, $20 overseas Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 email editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 10:12:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Krick Subject: Gen W Clark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have skim knowledge too, but I do know this: when Clark commanded the NATO troops in Yugoslavia, and Russian paratroopers took the Kosovo airport to force the West to give Russia a seat at the table, Clark ordered NATO forces to take it back. Luckily for us all, Clark's second in command, a British officer, countermanded that order, and we did not get a confrontation/firefight between Russian paras and the 82nd airborne. Let's not even suggest anymore that Clark might be a viable presidential contender, OK? Krick On 4 Jul 2003 at 13:04, Stephen Vincent wrote: > Where does or does not Gen W Clark fit into any Democratic profile. I > have > skim knowledge - but I assume he would scare the shit out of the Bushies. > He > can't be easily McGovernized, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 07:19:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Picking up an old thread - G. Stein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finished reading Janet Malcolm's "Gertrude Stein's War" last night. I = get the New Yorker as a hand-me-down, and am also a slow reader, thus = the delay. Only slightly remember some of the comments from a few weeks = ago, and recall them as having a negative brace, while I came away from = this long engaging piece feeling it a balanced critique. But I would = like to hear more about this from others. -Joel W. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 08:08:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Gen W Clark In-Reply-To: <3F07F603.25334.255DC7@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't know the full particulars of Clark in Kosovo - was he following orders - as required from the Clinton Admininstration? My understanding is that Clark was dead=set against the invasion of Iraq and continues to be publicly quite powerfully vocal on the subject. Whether that makes him a contender for the Democratic nomination - I would agree - is not any reason to make him President. I would still like to know more about him. Other than a continuing major implosion in Iraq - which now seems a possibility - and the emergence of a public figure in the the Democratic party that can identify, command and take public leadership out of the deepening quagmire (as well as the domestic fiscal/economic ones, etc.) - the D Party is the one that remains in a deeper quagmire. If Dean is the candidate, he is going to have to perform a major act of public alchemy with the concurrent support of multiple implosions simultaneously cracking Bush's ostensible public support. I know it sounds reactionary to even consider a General. It is, however, my understanding that the Generals did not support Coup Rummy in the current venture. Ironically, however, given the way the Bush folks have weaponized "war" into their self-justifying metaphor, it might take a General to justify pulling us out of Iraq and bring some common sense to the wars on terror, etc. Whether a General can also resolve and lead this country through all the collateral international and domestic damage that has been done will be a hard crap shoot. (Declare wars on unemployment, poverty, Corporate oligarchy, international corporate and military triumphalism, etc,) On all these and other issues Gen Clark's holsters may be totally upside down. But that's why - not knowing much about him - I asked the question. RealPolitic here - Stephen V on 7/6/03 7:12 AM, John Krick at jkrick@VOICENET.COM wrote: > I have skim knowledge too, but I do know this: when Clark > commanded the NATO troops in Yugoslavia, and Russian > paratroopers took the Kosovo airport to force the West to give > Russia a seat at the table, Clark ordered NATO forces to take it > back. > > Luckily for us all, Clark's second in command, a British officer, > countermanded that order, and we did not get a > confrontation/firefight between Russian paras and the 82nd > airborne. > > Let's not even suggest anymore that Clark might be a viable > presidential contender, OK? > > Krick > > > On 4 Jul 2003 at 13:04, Stephen Vincent wrote: > >> Where does or does not Gen W Clark fit into any Democratic profile. I >> have >> skim knowledge - but I assume he would scare the shit out of the Bushies. >> He >> can't be easily McGovernized, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:17:54 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman & Burger read in Oakland, July 13 Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reading in Oakland, CA Sunday, July 13 7-9 PM Mary Burger Ron Silliman at the gallery 21 Grand 449B 23rd Street (between Broadway & Telegraph) $4 Cover ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:13:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Reich Subject: Re: phenomenology of oboe and false oboe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sondheim: What is your relation to the oboe? I used to be an oboist myself. Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:58:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: phenomenology of oboe and false oboe In-Reply-To: <1e1.cc0eabe.2c39a4b6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII First, years ago I had two oboes, one a Boehm system which I could play, but far too open a sound. Both were lost in the flood. Now, a couple of months ago, a friend gave me a rather battered Selmer Paris Oboe - I've been trying to repair it (it's quite old and had poorly repaired cracks etc.), and play it - it's quite difficult for me, although the tone - on occasion when I 'get' it - is wonderful. And I'm fascinated by the enormous number of keys and levers necessary for trills, especially compared with the older pre-Triebert oboes, the boxwood-and-ivory ones. Beyond this, there's a phenomenology of the body involved - body and labor - just as there is with any mechanical instrument. With the woodwinds, it's a matter of breathing, which brings the shakuhachi, meditation, etc. into consideration. And the oboe reed - double reed - is the most similar to the vocal cords themselves. So there are all sorts of associations - and then associations with sound and originating sound (such as described in the Upanishads). Finally, there's my own frustration with the instrument. Because of its condition and complexity, I keep adjusting and adjusting, not always knowing if an error - say jumping an octave - is the result of a really poor embrochure or leakage, mismatching of levers, keys, pads, etc. somewhere down the line. So I keep working on it... Alan - On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Deborah Reich wrote: > Sondheim: What is your relation to the oboe? I used to be an oboist myself. > Deborah > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:54:19 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was wondering if anybody would like to join me in a festival of the ghazal? It is a format widely used by Islamic and Sufi poets. By trying our hand at them and perhaps some people posting some of the better ones from the classical tradition, it would be a way to find an understanding of some of the high points of that culture. I have heard that Rumi, among others, used this form. I could pick the winner, or we could just have a free-form everybody wins sort of festival. People could even try to write deliberately bad ones, which can be fun. The classical ghazal is very complicated, but I propose a simpler format. You have to have at least five couplets. Each couplet has to stand on its own as a separate poem. The first two lines have to end with the same word. Then from then on, the second line of each of the five to ten couplets has to end on that word, too. I cooked up an example recently, and send it in in hopes that my ghazal will call out to others lying asleep in your preconscious! Mathematical Beauty Divide the sun by beauty And you get mathematical beauty Add a cup of sherbet to long division & up jumps mathematical beauty Give the goose a flair for algebra A feather in the cap of mathematical beauty! Tie up traffic with Euclid's geometry & you'll sniff the bouquet of mathematical beauty Everywhere you look there's a cube or a square But it's rare to see mathematical beauty. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:42:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: San Francisco events, 7/10 and 7/11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two events I"ll be participating in next week in San Francisco. My=20 apologies for any cross-posting: First, there's this, downtown on Thursday evening: geary st reading series (6) THURSDAY | 07.10.03 | 7PM caf=E9 melroy (835 geary) our featured poets will be chuck forester, trevor calvert, and taylor brady AN APPRECIATED DONATION OF THREE DOLLARS for directions, parking hints or other questions please contact=20 gearystpoets@yahoo.com Then, on Friday: FRIDAY, JULY 11, 8:00 PM > PAY WHAT YOU CAN: $5.00 TO $50.00 > > PERFORMANCES FEATURING: > > Dodie Bellamy, Taylor Brady, Camille Roy AND > >A sneak preview of a new play by Kevin Killian and Craig Goodman, "The >Smith Family", with Jocelyn Saidenberg as Jaclyn Smith, Margaret Crane=20= as >Liz Smith, Karla Milosevich as Patti Smith, Wayne (Smith) as himself,=20= Tanya >Hollis as Susan Smith (the woman who drove her kids into the lake),=20 Rex Ray >as Jack Smith, and Kota Ezawa as Morrissey (from The Smiths). > >"Letter to an Ing=E9nue" by Brent Cunningham > >Readings from Alan Bernheimer's notorious "Particle Arms" > >Opera virtuoso Ken Berry with poet Carla Harryman reading from = Gertrude >Stein's "Listen to Me." > >ALL PROCEEDS GO TOWARD THE PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF SECURITY BARS=20= FOR >THE LAB'S WINDOWS. The LAB has media equipment and some thieves=20 have found this out! Metal security bars on our windows and the=20 creation of a secured >equipment storage area will make The LAB a safer place for art to=20 happen. >Please join us for a super fun evening. > > WHERE: THE LAB 2948 16th Street at Capp Street, San Francisco > DATE AND TIME: Friday, July 11 at 8:00 p.m. > TICKETS: $5.00-$50.00 pay what you can > PHONE: 415 864 8855 > > >PS - Join us also for the opening reception of our upcoming ART=20 PROPAGANDA >WAR exhibition this FRIDAY, July 4 from 4 to 7 PM Hope to see some of you at one or the other of these. All best, Taylor= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:20:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Please God I Want To Be a Martyr in a Suicide Bomb Attack to Crush the Infidel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #0001 Please God I Want To Be a Martyr in a Suicide Bomb Attack to Crush the Infidel (excerpt) stone covered assured down mind the monster crushing stone covered in prosperous in prosperous assured down mind finalizing finalizing restless cloud emit- Uzza Azzael set face independent finalizing knowledge consulting subdivisions, opinion creation will leave followed Pharaoh's -systems the monster crushing felt knowledge consulting will leave followed opinion creation felt to get a room at a We left the Art they got from the receive cow God led Francesco pregnant they got from the serving leave serving leave receive cow God led weapons proposed land of Egypt gardens played devilishly. send word for you to acpgs features allies streamlining full speed as though Francesco pregnant pristine Self weak devilishly. allies streamlining acpgs features pristine Self weak already too many-exceedingly During f-woman with out hitch in the port and has a short utterance female hitch in the port sort of man sort of man and has a short pseudepigrapha -foster greater pseudepigrapha -foster greater all against know last while peoples mathematician carry pseudepigrapha -foster greater exceedingly needed grandson thou art much gentleman hoarser far enough Eve's. all utterance female taken admitted sent exceedingly needed hoarser far enough much gentleman taken admitted sent members not give attention men in the place. gained absolute one kinds seven men in the place. expected? . ." expected? . ." gained absolute think lovingkindness think lovingkindness sun also useful driving where fast with this here think lovingkindness against day absolved itself proved good the place where his felt my cock slap article depositary one kinds seven first man against day absolved felt my cock slap the place where his first man before him it may be father for seven women-servants and ask observable too princes men women-servants and between legs tugs between legs tugs ask observable too division inactivated division inactivated white hairs hiding the Lord God made other because begins division inactivated surprises me. "Fuck . silliness of hundred and five and legends all other princes men man great use surprises me. "Fuck hundred and five and silliness of man great use ADAM EVE PARADISE an upward mute dominion, thou kissing her breasts blinking his deep- dominion, thou let alone my chance, let alone my chance, kissing her breasts also subjected also subjected committee good while serving all evil send his also subjected left reach final exercises part later way pub also mastery Vivekananda Swami blinking his deep- manpower meet death left reach final also mastery later way pub manpower meet death large unpatriotic hair Venerable cock treaty lamp wicked Hanina innocently treaty programs meeting programs meeting lamp wicked Hanina amused amused all grace beauty, Enoch called these were with her in the amused narrative bill strengthens man, were three on each preventive Israel in a night- innocently hours one time raved narrative bill preventive were three on each hours one time raved guides world, promise Adam august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:00:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Thinking Through MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thinking Through i believe without the benefit of pushing away spells of my own selfish water the eel-less sea the eye-less ocean touch-see when figuring out in numbers they splash together - Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:50:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Philip Nikolayev's MONKEY TIME, 2001 Verse Prize Winner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Monkey Time poems by Philip Nikolayev Winner of the 2001 Verse Prize, selected by Lyn Hejinian Paperback, 99 pages, $14 Temporarily available for $10 from Verse Press: http://www.versepress.org/nikolayev.html "I subvert by suggesting alternative forms," says Nikolayev, and so he does, brilliantly. Nothing escapes his formal insistence to renew. He can make (in homage to Malevich) a square made of curves, an alchemy of sinuous line. His ears are wide open, international, and very good. And I'm dazzled by his development of the "immured sonnet," a full-fledged rhyming sonnet embedded in continuous text. A wild, generous book, full of invention. - Robert Kelly Philip Nikolayev's poetry demonstrates magnificently that register is where it's at. So much of the considerable energy in this book comes from the variety of his ways with words. English is constantly being destabilised by an awareness of other languages, Russian, Hindi, Bangla; it's constantly under critique from non-native speakers, specialist jargons, media intrusions. The effect is an enormous liberation of lyric energy, and a restless experimentation that always feels necessary. Nikolayev reinhabits ballads, accretes new layers of language around sonnets, and everywhere enacts those small joyous transitions of sound that set your intellect ringing. There's a form explored here where the only metric is that a regular number of words appear in each line: it's typical of this book in that this kind of tight collage is only attempted by those really excited by words. The thing about Nikolayev is he conveys that excitement to you the reader without the clique's shortcut or the ideologue's shillelagh. Just the facts, ma'am. - W. N. Herbert Philip Nikolayev is a subverter of form and language. He is starkly innovative, but in an unpredictable and non 'school'-oriented way. His is a poetics in 'cahoots' with a self-created idiomatic Russian-American English, that like Nabokov's adds to the possibilities of the word, of the line, of the overall form of expression in the text. His poems address both the cross-cultural space of the work's evolution, and the transitory world of potential readerships. The poems slip in and out of the familiar, where nothing is as it seems. Visceral and vicarious, liminal and disturbingly concrete at times, they help us comprehend the 'manifold of the senses.' Richly ironic, sensitive, and variable in voice, these poems are barbs from a place few of us see, but most of us would like to visit. - John Kinsella About the Author: PHILIP NIKOLAYEV was born in Moscow, Russia, in 1966 and grew up fully bilingual in Russian and English thanks to his father, a linguist. He started out as a Russian poet, but came to the United States in 1990 to attend Harvard University, and has since been writing primarily in English. His poems have appeared in such journals as The Paris Review, Grand Street, Verse, Stand, Jacket, Salt, overland and many others across the English-speaking world. Nikolayev lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with his poet wife Katia Kapovich and their four year old daughter Sophia Margarita. He is the editor and publisher of Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:06:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All,=20 Thought some of you might enjoy this: http://www.photographymuseum.com/ alex saliby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:24:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: of chanting the beginning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII of chanting the beginning heaven heaven earth earth black black yellow black, earth is yellow :: earth is yellow yellow is yellow yellow :: heaven black, yellow :: heaven is the the cosmos cosmos the cosmos the are are vast vast are vast are a a desolate wasteland desolate a desolate wasteland a wasteland desolate wasteland a desolate sun the sun fills the fills sun fills the sun moon the moon fills the sets the west the sun in west the sun sets west sun sets in the it's it's dusk dusk it's dusk it's morning cold cold comes heat the heat the goes in autumn in harvesting winter in winter in hiding, the hiding, concealing the concealing hiding, concealing the hiding intercalary timing intercalary leftover the leftover residue the residue becomes the lu so the bamboo bamboo pitches pitches bamboo pitches bamboo shift shift position position shift position shift open open clouds clouds ascend, ascend, galloping, galloping, ascend, galloping, ascend, sending sending rain rain dew dew forms forms becoming becoming frost frost gold gold gives gives birth birth gives birth gives beautiful beautiful water water jade jade emanates emanates out Kun from Kun mountain from mountain Kun mountain from Kun summit summit double-edged the double-edged dagger the dagger double-edged dagger the double-edged furiously furiously named named furiously named furiously huge #!/usr/local/bin/perl5 #!/usr/local/bin/perl5 while while () { () while () { while { () { while () = split /[\s]+/, $_; @words split /[\s]+/, $_; = /[\s]+/, $_; @words split $_; @words = /[\s]+/, @words = split $_;@words = split /[\s]+/, @spaces split /[\S]+/, $_; /[\S]+/, @spaces = split for $#words; $x++) { ($x=0; $x++) { for $x { for ($x=0; <= for ($x=0; $x $#words; for ($x=0; $x <= $x++) ($x=0; $x <= $#words; $word_count{$words[$x]}++; $word_count{$words[$x]}++; if ",$words[$x-2]," ",$words[$x-1],"\n" } ($word_count{$words[$x]} ",$words[$x-1],"\n" } if == } if ($word_count{$words[$x]} 1) if ($word_count{$words[$x]} == {print if ($word_count{$words[$x]} == 1) $words[$x],$spaces[$x+1],$words[$x-4]," ($word_count{$words[$x]} == 1) {print ",$words[$x-3]," == 1) {print $words[$x],$spaces[$x+1],$words[$x-4]," ",$words[$x-2]," 1) {print $words[$x],$spaces[$x+1],$words[$x-4], " ",$words[$x-3]," ",$words[$x-1],"\n" {print $words[$x],$spaces[$x+1],$words[$x-4]," ",$words[$x-3], " ",$words[$x-2]," }$words[$x],$spaces[$x+1],$words[$x-4]," ",$words[$x-3], " ",$words[$x-2]," ",$words[$x-1],"\n" ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:47:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: chant of the final remnant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII chant of the final remnant dispersion a final remnant the final of the covenant of the covenant the dissipation among its dissipation its b remnant and final remnant fissured against fissured c forgotten languagings among forgotten attempting desperately d this covenant itself this against itself purity and purity e division among attempting division desperately shall which there of which of f evil - and evil and good and impurity is for such for h no fornication there g no offspring be no shall be there within inconceivable within i of annihilation the truth the way such facing j trillions centigrade of trillions inconceivable temperatures of graphemes k and losses quark divisibilities and quark facing gluon those l inscriptive devices all inscriptive alphabets all and alphabets shove you m effaced or entirely effaced are entirely lines are those lines forever tight cunt my tight into my cock into your cock shove your you o can testify who can disciples who and disciples the leaders among n cunt when nothing when p resolute deity of resolute the praises can sing and q or disappearance catastrophe or prevent catastrophe shall prevent that not both of not the shuddering r neither that of neither the wavering on t and understanding given wisdom been given have been we have we s and and strung-out cold u all disappearance knife-blade edge the knife-blade justices forgetting separation forgetting v and matter strung-out energy empty demarcations of empty codices w - injustices - and injustices of you how impure thinking how thinking x already fading demarcations already boiling from boiling y at all none at there's none be there's impure emptied z the soul dark matters strings dark quarks strings from quarks no untethering languagings\! the witnesses\! untethering emptied out more\! no more\! no more\! ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Spidertangle: the_book On the margins between poetry & visual art come needlepoint & more Reading "Biotherm" by Frank O'Hara Ted Berrigan: 1934-1983 How strange to be gone in a minute! Robert Lowell & the process of literary CPR Reading Carla Harryman: Situating poetry along new boundaries Malevich: Off center, thinking with material & shape What K. Silem Mohammad has in common with Mariah Carey Phaneronoemikon defined Reading Kiosk 2 Jonathon Wilcke: Post-Burroughs, Post-Acker pansexualilty with a glimmer of optimism Jean Donnelly's Anthem A history of blogging (whilst dishing Matt Drudge) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ * * * Reading in Oakland, CA Sunday, July 13 7-9 PM Mary Burger Ron Silliman at the gallery 21 Grand 449B 23rd Street (between Broadway & Telegraph) $4 Cover ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:41:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Publisher's Weekly review of Magee's MS Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu In-Reply-To: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Just discovered Publisher's Weekly's review of my new book of poems, _MS_, thought it might interest. -m. ************* Publisher's Weekly Following up on last year's Morning Constitutional, Magee forges an exaggerated, ludic, punning idiom to propel his lines deep into English's latest incarnations, a sort of "Jive to Juba" scat-talk la Harryette Mullen with the breathless pace, if not quite the soul, of Frank O'Hara at his peak typewriter-hysteria period: "The belles of St. Mary knell `The Real Slim Shady'/ have made up their minds and are keeping their babies/ their CHANNELED HISTORY Knickerbockers by proxy." Magee's channelings of U.S. history owe as much to Amiri Baraka and Barrett Watten as they do to Eminem ("what Amadou to you/ later, cable wires in the white poplar/ a concrete vector"), but not all of the poems in MS (or, "Manuscript") have such discernible trajectories. Some magic is lost when the poet seems vainly invested in maintaining the effect of a mind radiantly overloaded with linguistic possibility, reaching for the first neat pun ("like mallards, like melba/ toast we are/ dying on the bank/ like a bank shot") or throwing in 10 bad jokes (yuck-yucking over the word "vagina" for instance) in lieu of one good one. But the pleasures of this book are many, capturing the vicissitudes of language, by turns approaching the spareness of Creeley and the philosophical resonance of Cold of Poetry-era Hejinian. As Magee moves toward more complex, contradictory poetic personae, he'll have more than enough chops to negotiate the minefield of American culture and cultural appropriation. (June) Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:51:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Before the Post-Election Draft Part I: US Military Recruiters Get School Directories MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Military Recruiters Get School Directories Pentagon says it needs to fill the ranks, but critics complain about aggressive sales pitches By Douglas Holt Chicago Tribune Saturday 05 July 2003 When an Air Force recruiter recently strode out of Evanston Township High School with a student directory, it marked a major turning point for a school that had long resisted handing over the highly coveted information to the military. The brief exchange last month came only after loud protests from some parents who opposed releasing the directory, a list of roughly 1,000 names, addresses and telephone numbers of juniors and seniors. But under a little-noticed provision tucked into the No Child Left Behind Act--the sweeping education-reform law designed to identify and overhaul failing schools--school administrators had little choice. The law gives the military unprecedented access to all high school directories of upperclassmen--a mother lode of information used for mass-mailing recruiting appeals and telephone solicitations. "You can touch a person that may not have known we were out there," said Air Force Sgt. Derrick Russ, who recruits in the Chicago area. Before the law took effect last July, 12 percent of the nation's public high schools--some 2,500, including Evanston--denied the military access to student databases, according to the Pentagon. Now, only six high schools are holding out, said a spokeswoman, who declined to identify the schools. School districts in the Chicago area are dealing with the law in distinctly different ways--particularly in how aggressively they have informed parents of its provisions. Some have done little to tell parents of their legal right to have their children's names withheld from recruiters. No questions asked For example, at Naperville District 203, Stevenson High School in Lincolnshire and Elgin-based Unit School District 46, officials stressed they have long provided the lists to the military, no questions asked. Parental notification often has amounted to a brief mention in newsletters and a disclosure statement included among student registration papers. It's a different story at Evanston, where high school officials repeatedly informed parents of their rights. Responding to complaints, the district even extended the deadline for parents to have their children's names removed from the list. Nearly one-third of them, 491, did so at the school, which has 1,509 juniors and seniors. Similarly, parents at Lake Forest and New Trier High Schools can choose to have the information withheld from the military, but turned over to colleges and universities. Driving the provision was the concern that federally funded schools have an obligation to cooperate with the armed forces and provide students with information on military careers, said U.S. Rep. David Vitter (R-La.), who sponsored the recruiting amendment to the No Child Left Behind Act. "I think it's a disservice to the country and the military to shut down access to qualified young kids who may be very interested in military service," said Vitter, who was concerned some high schools had slammed the door shut on recruiters. The law is designed to help the nation maintain an all-volunteer military force that requires nearly 210,000 young people to enter full-time service annually, with 150,000 more joining the reserves or National Guard. Over the last decade, the cost of recruiting nearly doubled from $6,500 to $11,600 a recruit as an increasing percentage of high school graduates opted for college and as unemployment rates were relatively low, defense officials said. The issue of military recruiting has provoked little discussion at many Chicago-area schools. Patriotism cited in Elgin Elgin District 46 spokesman Larry Ascough ridiculed schools that take issue with providing student directories. "I could never imagine this being a controversy here," he said. "This town, they're very patriotic." Stevenson High School put a two-paragraph item in its "Minuteman" newsletter last January noting the law. "While this has been an unusual development for some schools, it is not for Stevenson. The school has willingly provided names and addresses [but not phone numbers] to the armed forces for more than two decades," the notice said. In the Chicago Public Schools system--home to 99,000 high school students--only 17 parents have opted to have their children's names removed from recruiting lists, said spokeswoman Joi Mecks. Parents were notified of the law in a school newsletter, a memo to parents and on the district's Web site, she said. "They may have received information and didn't pay attention to it," she said. "Or it may be a non-issue." The law also applies to private schools that get federal funds, such as the prestigious Chicago Latin School, which received about $40,000 in federal money last year. But so far, military recruiters have evinced little interest in the school, officials said. "In the last six years, we've never received a request of information from a military recruiter," spokeswoman Evelyne Girardet said. "It's a little embarrassing." Concerned about the law's impact, some educators complain recruiters oversell the military's benefits, downplay the risks, use dogged sales tactics and prey on poor students. "I think they glorify the military," said Marilyn Madden, Evanston Township High School's director of pupil personnel services, who opposes turning over student lists. "I don't think it's a good idea. I think it's more kids of color who feel like this is the only way to go to college. They may not make it to college if there's going to be a war." Some educators say they've seen too many students come away feeling misled. Students have been told they could train as pilots or nuclear engineers, only to learn after enlisting that they don't qualify, said Michael Johnson, executive director of the Illinois Association of School Boards. Recruiters also have come under fire for unscrupulous tactics. About 50 recruiters in the Navy's Chicago district faced disciplinary action in 2001 after an investigation found they falsified records to qualify recruits who didn't meet education requirements. Completing medical forms Two recent recruits interviewed by the Tribune said they were urged to answer "no" to potentially disqualifying medical questions when they reported for military physicals. Evanston resident William Hicks, 18, said recruiters in Virginia, where he lived until this year, gave him a practice medical questionnaire "so you know what to put on the paper." Waukegan resident Ari Soto, 19, said, "The recruiters actually told me to say `no' to everything." On her military entrance physical, she said she concealed that she had been hospitalized for a dislocated knee and had chickenpox twice. She also didn't mention a slight case of asthma, she said. Bill Kelo, spokesman for the Army's Chicago recruiting effort, declined to comment on Soto's allegations. Soto also learned firsthand another concern voiced by educators: It's hard to change your mind after an initial commitment. She signed up for the Delayed Entry Program, which allows recruits as young as 17 to agree to join the military within one year. Soto broke her agreement with the military, which wasn't legally binding, and had a baby girl in January. But not before recruiters repeatedly called her, requesting that she submit to a physical to prove she was pregnant, she said. The experience left her embittered. "I think they sugarcoated everything and told lies just to get you to sign up," she said. Though declining to speak about any specific recruit, Kelo stressed that high school students who commit to the all-volunteer armed forces but change their plans typically can get out of it. In most cases, all it takes is a letter, he said. "It doesn't serve our purposes to do anything to put people in the services who don't want to be there," he said. Dickell Fonda, an Evanston Township High School parent, said a Navy recruiter called on the telephone last winter and asked to talk to her 17-year-old son. Angered by phone call "They asked him what he wanted to do after high school," Fonda said. "He said he was planning on going to college. The recruiter said very clearly to him, `Now, do you really think your parents are going to pay for that?'" Fonda said the exchange left her so enraged that she went to a Navy recruiting station and had them delete her son's name from their computer. "We're in a mode of war without end, I'm afraid, so it's a pertinent issue," she said. "It's a dangerous time for children to be making these choices." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:48:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: The Anti-Empire Report Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subj: The Anti-Empire Report =20 Date: 07/07/2003 10:18:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time =20 From: BBlum6 =20 To: BBlum6 =20 BCC: JBCM2 =20 =20 The Anti-Empire Report, an occasional newsletter of questionable rantings an= d=20 ravings by Bill Blum The words and actions of the Bush administration have so often been labeled=20 "Orwellian" that it's become virtually a clich=E9. But one can not resist a= dding=20 to the list. At a July 1 White House press briefing, a reporter asked spokesman Ari=20 Fleischer: "Ari, the United States just declared about 50 countries, includi= ng=20 Colombia and six prospective NATO members, ineligible for military aid becau= se they=20 won't exempt Americans from the International Criminal Court. My question is= ,=20 why is this priority more important than fighting the drug wars, integrating= =20 Eastern Europe?"=20 Fleischer replied: "Well, number one, because the President is following the= =20 law. This is a law that Congress passed that the President signed, dealing=20 with what's called Article 98 actions that would make certain that American=20 military personnel and other personnel who are stationed abroad would not be= =20 subject to a court which has international sovereignty that's in dispute." So what do we have here? The Bush administration drafts a law to serve its=20 imperial and propaganda needs, pushes it through Congress, and then, when th= e=20 press expresses some skepticism about the law's effect, the same Bush=20 administration justifies it by saying: "Well, the President is only followin= g the law." As to the court's sovereignty being in dispute, this is of course entirely=20 centered in a city called Washington, DC. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For a dozen years, international groups supporting the Iraqi people=20 campaigned to have the UN (read US) sanctions removed, sanctions which Clint= on's=20 National Security Advisor, Sandy Berger, called "the most pervasive sanction= s=20 every imposed on a nation in the history of mankind". The United States,=20 meanwhile, insisted that the suffering of the population was not due to the=20 sanctions, but was the result of Saddam's lavish lifestyle. ("People of Ira= q ... the=20 amount of money Saddam spends on himself in one day would be more than enoug= h=20 to feed a family for a year," said a Pentagon radio program broadcast into=20 Iraq). So then Saddam and his regime were overthrown. But the suffering=20 continued anyhow in much the same ways. And then, with their usual lack of=20 embarrassment, Washington officials declared that the sanctions are actually= harmful=20 and that they would have be removed in order to provide humanitarian aid and= =20 rebuild the country. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reading about a horribly bloody suicide attack upon a Shiite Muslim mosque i= n=20 Pakistan on July 4 that killed dozens, and which is blamed on members of the= =20 Sunni Muslims, I imagined what many Americans would think about this: "That'= s=20 good, they should all just kill each other with their uncivilized tribal=20 violence if they can't learn how to get along any better than that." Then I thought about the American tribe which recently killed thousands of=20 the Afghan tribe and then thousands more of the Iraqi tribe, for no discerni= ble=20 good reason or purpose, cheered on by the many other members of the American= =20 tribe at home waving their tribal flags. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> US military commanders in Iraq have branded the guerillas as "subversives"=20 and "terrorists". Donald Rumsfeld said there are five groups opposing US forces -- looters,=20 criminals, remnants of Saddam Hussein's government, foreign terrorists and=20 Iranian-backed Shiites. =20 An American official there maintains that many of the people shooting at US=20 troops are "poor young Iraqis" who have been paid between $20 and $100 to st= age=20 hit-and-run attacks on US soldiers. "They're not dedicated fighters," he=20 said. "They're people who wanted to take a few potshots." Other members of the Bush administration use terms like "well-trained=20 militants" and "professional operations". What no American official dares to have cross his lips is the idea that any=20 part of the resistance is composed of Iraqi citizens who do not like being=20 bombed, invaded and occupied and are demonstrating their resentment. Does t= hat=20 thought at least cross the minds of these officials? Or do they assume that= =20 United States moral authority is as absolute and unchallengeable as its mili= tary=20 power? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bush administration is agreeing that Charles Taylor, president of=20 Liberia, can and should step down from office and leave the country even tho= ugh=20 Taylor was recently indicted by a UN-sponsored court in Sierra Leone for=20 "bearing the greatest responsibility for war crimes, crimes against humanity= and=20 serious violations of international humanitarian law" during Sierra Leone's=20 civil war. This is in marked contrast to consistent US government demands o= f=20 recent years that all Serbian officials indicted for similar crimes by the U= N=20 court in the Hague be turned over to the court, or turn themselves in, with=20= no=20 exceptions, no going into exile, no mercy. To show how serious Washington w= as=20 about this, they pressured the Yugoslav government to kidnap President Slobo= dan=20 Milosevic and hustle him off to the Hague. But that's because the US had=20 globalization designs on Yugoslavia's considerable assets and required that=20 Milosevic and his team be replaced with others who would be more amenable to= such an=20 objective. In 1998, President Clinton sent Jesse Jackson as his special envoy to Liberi= a=20 and Sierra Leone, which is next door and which was in the midst of one of th= e=20 great horrors of the 20th century -- You may remember the army of mostly=20 young boys, the Revolutionary United Front (RUF), who went around raping and= =20 chopping off people's arms and legs. African and world opinion was enraged=20= against=20 the RUF, which was committed to protecting the diamond mines they controlled= .=20 Taylor was an indispensable ally and supporter of the RUF and Jackson was a= =20 friend of his. Jesse was not sent there to hound Taylor about his widesprea= d=20 human rights violations. Instead, in June 1999, Jackson and other American=20 officials drafted entire sections of an accord that made RUF leader, Foday=20 Sankoh, Sierra Leone's vice president and gave him control over the diamond=20= mines,=20 the country's major source of wealth. (See New Republic of July 24, 2000) And what was the Clinton administration's interest in all this? It's been=20 suggested that the US had to deal with the RUF since they more or less=20 militarily controlled the Koidu Diamond Mine area whose exploitation contrac= ts were=20 held by two Clinton cronies, Jean Raymond Boulle and Robert Friedland. More= over,=20 there was Maurice Tempelsman, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's=20 paramour at the time, whose Antwerp, Amsterdam and Tel Aviv diamond marts ar= ranged=20 for Sierra Leone diamond sales to Tiffany and Cartier. =20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take the children out of the room. What follows is a kind word about=20 Saddam Hussein. During his reign, when the war with Iran and US bombings an= d=20 sanctions made it feasible, the Iraqi people had free education all the way=20 through university and medical school, free medical care, regular food packa= ges=20 for those in need, women's rights superior to anything in the Arab world, an= d=20 religious toleration for Christians and other non-Muslims. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are all kinds of intelligence in this world: musical, scientific,= =20 mathematical, artistic, literary, and so on. Then there's political=20 intelligence, which might be defined as the ability to see through the bulls= hit which=20 every society, past, present and future, feeds its citizens from birth on. Polls conducted in June showed that 42% of Americans believed that Iraq had=20= a=20 direct involvement in what happened on September 11, most of them being=20 certain that Iraqis were among the 19 hijackers; 55% believed that Saddam Hu= ssein=20 had close ties to al Qaeda; 34% were convinced that weapons of mass destruct= ion=20 had recently been found in Iraq (7% were not sure); 24% believed that Iraq=20 had actually used chemical or biological weapons against American forces in=20= the=20 war (14% were unsure). "If Iraq had no significant WMD and no strong link to Al Qaeda, do you think= =20 we were misled by the government?" Only half said yes. One can only wonder what, besides a crowbar, it would take to pry such peopl= e=20 away from their total support of what The Empire does to the world. Perhaps= =20 if the government came to their homes, seized their first born, and took the= m=20 away screaming? Well, probably not if the government claimed that the adore= d=20 first born had played soccer with someone from Pakistan who had a friend who= =20 had gone to the same mosque as someone from Afghanistan who had a picture of= =20 Taliban leader Mohammed Omar on his wall. Many Americans, whether consciously or unconsciously, actually pride=20 themselves on their ignorance. It reflects their break with the overly comp= licated=20 intellectual tradition of "old Europe". It's also a source of satisfaction=20= that=20 they have a president who's no smarter than they are. =20 All this is bad news for the American anti-war movement which needs to=20 enlarge its ranks. "Mit der Dummheit k=E4mpfen G=F6tter selbst vergebens,"=20= wrote=20 Schiller. "With stupidity even the gods struggle in vain." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On several occasions I have been confronted with the argument that powerful=20 countries have always acted like the United States, so why condemn the US s= o=20 much? I respond that since one can find anti-Semitism in every country, why= do=20 we condemn Nazi Germany so much? It's a question of magnitude, is it not? =20 The magnitude of US aggression puts it into a league all by itself, just as=20= the=20 magnitude of the Nazis' anti-Semitism does. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cuba has recently been heavily criticized, by various shadings of leftists a= s=20 well as by those to the right, for its sentencing a number of "dissidents" t= o=20 prison because of their very close political and financial connections to=20 American officials. Critics say that Cuba should not have over-reacted so,=20= that=20 these people were not really guilty of anything criminal. =20 While I personally think that the Cuban trials were too quick and that some=20 of the sentences were too long, we have to keep in mind that before the Unit= ed=20 States invaded Iraq there was extensive CIA and US military liaison on the=20 ground with Iraqi dissidents and lots of propaganda to soften up the populat= ion=20 -- propaganda beamed into Iraq with the indispensable help of other Iraqi=20 dissidents. =20 The United States has been on a ferocious rampage of bombing, invasion,=20 taking over countries and threatening the same to others. The US ambassador= to the=20 Dominican Republic declared: "I think what is happening in Iraq is going to=20 send a very positive signal, and it is a very good example for Cuba." An=20 advisor to Florida Governor Jeb Bush, speaking of Fidel Castro, said: "The=20 administration has taken care of one tyrant already. I don't think they woul= d=20 vacillate about taking care of another one." There was in this same period= a wave=20 of violent hijackings of Cuban planes and boats. =20 Can Cuba be expected to ignore all this? Is Washington's work with Cuban=20 dissidents to be seen as a purely harmless undertaking? Not done for a purp= ose? =20 How can Cuba not feel extremely threatened, even more than the usual threat=20 of the past 44 years? How can they not take precautionary measures? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The causes of the malady are not entirely clear but its recurrence is one o= f=20 the uniformities of history: power tends to confuse itself with virtue and a= =20 great nation is peculiarly susceptible to the idea that its power is a sign=20= of=20 God's favor, conferring upon it a special responsibility for other nations -= -=20 to make them richer and happier and wiser, to remake them, that is, in its=20 own shining image." Former US Senator William Fulbright, "The Arrogance of=20 Power" (1966) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> William Blum is the author of:=20 Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War 2 Rogue=20 State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower West-Bloc Dissident: A Cold War Memoir www.killinghope.org bblum6@aol.com =20 They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose.=20 Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military=20 force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe.=20 companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinforme= d=20 by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say=20 corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't=20 want us to know."=20 Gore Vidal =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:24:46 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support A few things- the fix. Didn't you blame Nader a few posts ago? Was Nader in on the fix? Maybe your point is that Nader made it close. My point is that it should have never been close. But okay. "Corporations are taking over the reins of government." The reason Nader got any votes at all was because corporations HAVE TAKEN government. Al Gore is a great example, in fact. The cartoon history of the right wing does no one justice. Is the right really simple? Saying they "always have their shit together" is another way of making an excuse why the left doesn't. The left is no more complicated. It shouldn't be, unless we want to come off as the oh so complex & enlightened good guys that know what's best for everyone whether they like it or not. "Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy." Come on. Do you really believe he was any less complicated than say, Bill Clinton? Dismissal of the right squanders the opportunity to know it, dissect it & learn from it. The "literate equals progressive" argument is elitist, but also untrue. Brazil elected Lula- maybe the most progressive leader in the world, while France recently had a runoff election w/ a neo-nazi. I'd just like to say- hold on, Joel. Don't give up so early in the game. You seem like a good guy, & I just can't believe that Joe Leiberman is the man for you.> Frank: > > We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida was fixed. Not > to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not criticizing > your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more than worthwhile. > But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and badly, during my > lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't afford it, as > corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the right-wing, > in any country, always has the shit together, as their program is simple: > power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy. The > right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to simplicity and > the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the master of secrecy > and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While democracy is > about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the laundry out. > And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. > As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next election. I agree > that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the national election. > You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level and quality of > a country's literacy. Need I say more? > > -Joel > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who couldn't win > > in > > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm saying > this- > > > again. > > > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already decided that a > > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is what you're > > told. > > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. You're that > > scared? > > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A > candidate > > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL NOT win in > > 2004. > > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve what you > get. > > > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > > alternative, > > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten Commandments will take > the > > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh all the way to > > his > > > > next war. > > > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of > > elected > > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual > citizen > > > > become > > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this list again. I > do > > > > want to > > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are fueling the fear > fire > > as > > > > a > > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the latest polls. As > > long > > > > as > > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean it, as we're > > > > witnessing. > > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the candidate, & nobody > > really > > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand > > > > accountability > > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & again. If we > > don't > > > > support > > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's > election, > > we > > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, and now the > > stakes > > > > are > > > > > > much higher. > > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so that after the > > > > convention > > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will move Kerry to > the > > > > left in > > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes to shove, > i.e. > > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we can't make change > > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still > make > > a > > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his Wrecking Crew > out > > of > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around the world, > of > > the > > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest Democrat needs to be > > > > running > > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the > > strongest > > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign > policy, > > but > > > > > > first > > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has done damage > > already, > > > > > > wait > > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to pay attention > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and > culture > > has > > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis > > Kucinich. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis > Kucinich > > for > > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland Americans who > > are > > > > too > > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that his whole > > > > political > > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > Washington, > > but > > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and > > bravery > > > > who > > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the late Senator > Paul > > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual privacy, safe food > > laws > > > > and > > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the > > interests > > > > of > > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and environment above > the > > > > greed > > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, > but > > this > > > > is > > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with > politics. > > I > > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us and I will > be > > > > doing > > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I plan to do > > concerts > > > > to > > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does not reflect the > > views > > > > of > > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the > > support of > > > > a > > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values of America." > ## > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, > > momentum > > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we > > increase > > > > our > > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and > > > > fundraising. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If > Dennis > > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less reason to have > a > > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive > Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. With so many > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not just us. To see > > why > > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > > >> > > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:20:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "James W. Cook" Subject: Re: places to live Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed {I accidentally sent the first version of this only to Kirby Olson.} Does Gloucester have a poet >laureate? Vincent Ferrini is the poet laureate of Gloucester. >Perhaps it should be on the balloting -- and rival poems published in the >papers, so that citizens can choose! A local bookstore (The Bookstore) campaigned the city council and the mayor to create the position and install Vincent. However, friends have thought we should walk in the July 3 Horribles Parade, passing out the candidates' poems and ballots w/ their names. (In the Horribles Parade, people dress up in costumes, etc. though now many of the floats are sponsored by businesses and religious groups.) A second group of walkers could collect the ballots. An interesting experiment, no? Perhaps even better would be for the laureate candidates to read their poems on the back of a flatbed truck. A good spot for the poets' float would be right behind the fundamentalist Christian float & its cloying, kid-friendly(?) music. But I also like the idea of using the _Gloucester Daily Times_, the local paper in which Charles O. himself was published, as a means of determining the poet of the polis. (See: _Maximus to Gloucester; The Letter and Poems of Charles Olson to the Gloucester Times, 1962 - 1969_, edited by Peter Anastas, foreword by Gerrit Lansing, 1992.) As for Vincent, his letters and poems frequently appear on the GDT's Op-Ed page. slan, j.c. >From: Kirby Olson >Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: places to live >Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:31:38 -0400 > >Maria Damon, and others on the places thread -- > >In addition to the Deer Heads, there are still a lot of potheads. I went >over for a >non-alcoholic beer and saw them lighting up on the porch. I didn't >recognize any >specific people -- but recognized the scarf around the head, the lack of a >good shave, >the hiking boots and flannel shirts, etc. It reminded me very much of >where I went to >college, too, at Evergreen -- whose major export seems to be radical people >who like >nature. I used to really try to love nature, but only like Linden trees >now, becuase >they have such smooth bark. You can kiss them without injury! > >Oh, another thing: I went to the Allentown Bethlehem Easton area for a >look-see. That >looked built-up and yet is older, and has neighborhoods. I went to the >library at >Muhlenberg College. I'm doing a study of formerly Lutheran colleges. What >happened, >etc. There used to be 42 of these, and now most of them have voted to oust >their synod >affiliation. It has to do with money, mainly -- there is more money to be >gotten as a >secular school that doesn't discriminate on the basis of religion. So >almost all of >the Lutheran schools have caved in. I think St. Olaf's and Valparaiso and >a few others >still maintain Lutheran priorities in student and professional staffing. >Others have >caved in to EOP and Affirmative Action rulings in order to get government >subsidies. > >Muhlenberg for instance just got rid of 21 of their 22 Lutheran clergy on >their Board >of Trustees and replaced them with good solid businessmen. Now over half >the student >body is Jewish, and the rest are mostly Catholic. One guy in the English >department >told me there are still a few old Lutherans skulking around but nobody can >stand them >since they are so dour. They have a gorgeous neo-Gothic Cathedral that is >still >staffed by Lutherans, and the chorus was practicing a hymn called something >like "With >Wounded Head I Bow Down" -- they sounded good to my dour ear. > >This area looked interesting to me -- lots of gingerbread houses made of >brick by what >looked like largely German immigrants in terms of the design -- but I >didn't really >know the area. Is housing expensive? I'm looking for a good small town of >about >100,000, somewhere on either the east or the west coast. Not right away, >mind you, but >as places to check out. I like to look at cities and towns and see how >they are >doing, and talk to the mayor if I can, and find out about their problems. > >Maybe I'll even live in one again if I can find an appropriate one. >Carrsboro sounds >very nice, but I want to see the winning poem, and I want to know what the >Poet >Laureate receives as compensation. Who chose the poet laureate at >Carrsboro? I think >that Chaucer got a barrel of spirits and ten dollars. Is that right? I >can't >remember. Billy Collins gets 33 thousand, or something like that, with a >place to stay >in DC. How much does the Carrsboro laureate get? > >It isn't a lot, really, to ask say ten grand. I think that's what Amiri >Baraka was >getting before the 9-11 poem. Is he still employed? > >Should every town and village have a poet in this country? How should they >be picked? >What should they do? Should they write a history, as Olson did for >Gloucester? How >much should they be paid? Can they be impeached? Does Gloucester have a >poet >laureate? Perhaps it should be on the balloting -- and rival poems >published in the >papers, so that citizens can choose! Enough of these hand-picked >appointees, already. >It would be a charming institution, improbably. > >-- Kirby Olson _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:24:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: These Two Now Starve for Sky Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stinging these chemicals from my eyes with such soft hopes as wasps leave in pumice and syrup trails, grinding light until I can see clear through noon. Oh, I do love you, packed in your new needed shell, but I'm lonely for you, stitching your words which you believe with assumed large hands, jewel-eyed clear through me to rotting cave. I struggle to stand in this room, the dead and passed still fucking me; you too escape growing around this route. There are two of them trapped between the screen and window, and I'm too afraid to let them in. ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:44:03 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Like many others I posted this originally to Daniel Zimmerman only. It seems the default is that you post to an individual rather than to a board, if you only push reply. You have to push reply all. -- KO Kirby Olson wrote: > Daniel, > > Thanks for this ghazal, and to Harriet Zinne and the others. All ghazal > writers who post to this board in say the next two weeks (deadline July > 27th, which may or may not have any significance) are to be treated like > Pashas, and considered to be just barely divine, and will be treated > with niceness and there will be no sardonic attitudes displayed (at > least not by me). Thanks a lot for entering. I'm going to try and find > some actual practicing Muslims to judge the poems, if I can't find > Sufis. And I will then send something odd in the mail to the winner. > Keep the ghazals pouring in! Daniel Zimmerman's has a nice sweep of > history, breathtaking to leap the centuries and see how nothing changes. > > -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:51:22 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: places to live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kirby Olson wrote: > James W. Cook, and poet laureate of places idea thinkers: > > I'm not sure why every town can't have a poet laureate as long as they > are paid nothing and the idea is merely honorary. Why would anybody > flip? It would create interest in the art, and although there might > be a few jealous poets who didn't get the position, they could always > pat themselves on the back and say, I'm too radical for this town. > > Does Ferrini get any money, and how long does his position last? Is > he in it for life? He must be getting up there since Olson was > writing to him in the early fifties. Did he take to heart any of > Olson's admonitions concerning his writing? Also, what letters does > he write to the paper? Does he structure them as poems? > > -- Kirby Olson > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:21:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "M. Bogue" Subject: Is economy a subset of ecology? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Why do I think Gary Snyder will not be too likely to win this particular award? www.shelleconomistprize.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:24:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: Carborro poet laureate/network/scene (Re: heraldsun.com (Maria, Ron, Kirby, Mark)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Patrick, I was offline most of last week. Congratulations! I think the poem shows great knowledge of horticulture and geography. Next time you have to include what Louis Rubin once said must be present in all Southern poetry, namely a dead mule. (Best thing he ever said). The Herald-Sun piece reminded me of the distinction Ron S. makes somewhere between "scene" and "network" in poetry (Ron, where is that anyway?). As we both know, Patrick, there is not really a scene here as such, just some isolated individuals (you and me and . . . let's see . . . Joe Donahue, Chris Vitiello if he's still around, others) doing their work in some proximity to a medium-sized poetic circle jerk of Southern establishment poets. Nor is there really a network. What is _named_ here as a network (the North Carolina Writers Network) is actually made up largely of (often blue-haired) writers who want to get invited to the aforementioned circle jerk. The Herald-Sun article implicitly recognizes the authority of the real "network" (in this case, an electronic one) though their elision of "web" from "Iowa Review Web" suggests that they're not fully at ease with the idea. In fact, though I really like the poem you submitted, I think the real poem is your application, exhibitiing what Al Franken calls "kidding on the square" (http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/06/12_franken.html). Best, David Patrick Herron wrote: >Thanks Ron, thanks Maria. Very kind of you. Very very kind. > >Ron, I honestly haven't seen Lester in a long time. He was traveling and >was lost in luggage for a while. I occasionally hear from him but he seems >to be laying low. He's depressed about Bush and doesn't want to come back >to the US. > >It's weird to suddenly exist here in my own town, and it is very funny too, >and it is also nice. Tomorrow AM I do a radio show. Another article >appeared today (link below) and another will appear in two weeks. I had fun >writing that fake fake poem (it also can be considered a fake flarf poem, as >I had flarf in mind when writing it), playing with Southern Poet(TM) >clichés, and I laughed and laughed and laughed when I learned that I won. > >Then I learned that the joke was on me. Funny how that works out. Now I am >honestly embarrassed of the poem even in its correct from for a large number >of reasons though I am repeatedly told not to be. Be careful who you even >pretend to want to be I think is the lesson.... > >The poem is here in its "correct" form: >http://www.carrboro.com/poetlaureate2003poem.html > >The new article: >http://www.triangle.com/triangle.com/communities/chapelhill/story/2671548p-2 >477085c.html >or go to chapelhillnews.com, then under the news section on the right, >select the first story.... > >(There are numerous inaccuracies in each article...I didn't want to point >them out so I wouldn't be complaining. The poem in the heraldsun.com >article was mutilated beyond recognition...The Iowa Review Web, not The Iowa >Review, never went to London for a reading but an invite to Nottingham, >etc.) > >Kirby! > >The Carrboro Poet Laureateship pays $0.00. Zip. And you already have to be >a resident; and my rent still costs the same. > > >Mark! > >Our Mayor is out of the closet. That eliminates the gentleman of the >mayor's closet, since he has no closet & already has a steady beau, and >ladies in waiting wouldn't help much. > >Laureates in every town would be madness! Thinking about it, there are not >many towns like Carrboro where the residents would not collectively freak >out if they heard their elected officials create a Poet Laureate position. >And there aren't many towns or cities where a poet laureate would fit. I'll >try to name where it might fit: Arcata CA, Iowa City IA, Madison WI, and >maybe Ithaca NY or Providence RI or Gloucester MA or Ann Arbor MI. Portland >ME? Berea KY? Berkeley CA? Athens OH or Athens GA? Minneapolis-St.Paul >MN? Lawrence KS? Flagstaff AZ (where Pluto was discovered)? I'm running >out of places quickly. > > >Patrick > > > >Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:36:14 -0500 >From: Maria Damon >Subject: Re: heraldsun.com article > >kudos patrick, and thanks ron. this is charming; made my day. one >friend has taken to calling july 4 interdependence day and making a >point of celebrating planetary interbeing. > -- David Kellogg Director, Writing in the Disciplines Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing Duke University (919) 668-1615; FAX (919) 681-0637 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:17:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Thrre Little Heretics advert In-Reply-To: <3F09C8F8.6060407@duke.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable CASUS BELLI announces the publication of C R I T I C A L P A T H: I N T O T H E B U S H Part I: Report to the Council By Three Little Heretics Available from select booksellers and the PayPal service at www.ThreeLittleHeretics.com "A roaring read. . .South Park for us literary types." --Tim Allen reviewing an excerpt published in The Gig for Terrible Work http://terriblework.co.uk "The best satire I've seen of the Bush days yet. . .such a relief from most of the 'poetry' around" --Marjorie Perloff "Amazingly topical. . .appallingly linear" --Kevin Killian Critical Path: Into the Bush is an ongoing transatlantic/transcontinental text/image/performance collaboration by cris cheek, William R. Howe, and Keith Tuma, "three little heretics" burning in the real and mediatized site= s of the miracle-grow Bush. 64 pp. more or less square $7.50 + $2.50 p & p =A35.50 + =A31.50 p & p COMING SOON: Part II: SQUELCH Fried Pudding and Bowling Bill meet Fudge, Paralysis, and Shriek in search of WMD (apologies for cross posting) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:37:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Re: Thrre Little Heretics advert In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There's been much banter (less of late) on this list re. what poets=20 or poetry can do in the face of contemporary circumstance: the below=20 advertized title is a titillating and stimulating example=20 (categorically unique in my reading) of pungent topical=20 satrico-polemico-poesis. It also happens to be just the sort of thing that makes the mint=20 julep come jetting out yr nostrils. Get a copy fer yrself and one for yr best friend, too.... / Eirik Steinhoff, Ed. >CASUS BELLI announces the publication of >C R I T I C A L P A T H: I N T O T H E B U S H >Part I: Report to the Council > >By Three Little Heretics >Available from select booksellers and the PayPal service at >www.ThreeLittleHeretics.com > >"A roaring read. . .South Park for us literary types." >--Tim Allen reviewing an excerpt published in The Gig for Terrible Work >http://terriblework.co.uk > >"The best satire I've seen of the Bush days yet. . .such a relief from most >of the 'poetry' around" >--Marjorie Perloff > >"Amazingly topical. . .appallingly linear" >--Kevin Killian > >Critical Path: Into the Bush is an ongoing transatlantic/transcontinental >text/image/performance collaboration by cris cheek, William R. Howe, and >Keith Tuma, "three little heretics" burning in the real and mediatized site= s >of the miracle-grow Bush. > >64 pp. more or less square >$7.50 + $2.50 p & p >=A35.50 + =A31.50 p & p > >COMING SOON: Part II: SQUELCH >Fried Pudding and Bowling Bill meet Fudge, Paralysis, and Shriek in search >of WMD > >(apologies for cross posting) * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:37:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: Re: Thrre Little Heretics advert In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is an endorsement that really makes me rush to the phone & order a copy. Or is it the prelude to a fraternity hazing ritual? On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 03:37 PM, Chicago Review wrote: > > It also happens to be just the sort of thing that makes the mint julep > come jetting out yr nostrils. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:46:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Dactyl Foundation Reading NYC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are invited to attend "The Genius of (Mis)Translation" poetry=20 series on July 17th, with Joshua Beckman, Lisa Lubasch and Pierre Joris at the Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities 64 Grand Street (between West Broadway & Wooster) SoHo, NYC 212.219.2344 www.dactyl.org email@dactyl.org Poetry Readings: The Genius of (Mis)Translation Thursday, July 17, 2003, 7pm Admission Free ($8 suggested donation) Drinks will be served. If meaning between two linguistic systems is incommensurable, then the=20= translator may be forced to expand the target language, perhaps by=20 intentional or slight mistranslation. This is one of the few ways in=20 which truly new meaning can be created. As a tribute to the creative=20 genius of translation, Dactyl Foundation presents: Joshua Beckman, Lisa=20= Lubasch and Pierre Joris. =A0=A0 Joshua Beckman is the author of three books of poetry, Things are=20 Happening (American Poetry Review, 1998, winner of the Honickman First=20= Book Prize), Something I Expected to be Different (Verse Press, 2001),=20= and Nice Hat.Thanks. (written with Matthew Rohrer, Verse Press, 2003).=20= He is the poetry editor of Radical Society. Beckman will read his own=20 work as well as his translations of Slovenian poet Tomaz Salamun. Lisa=20= Lubasch is the author of two books of poems: How Many More of Them Are=20= You? and Vicinities, both from Avec Books. She is the translator of=20 Paul =C9luard=92s A Moral Lesson (Green Integer Books) and, with Olivier=20= Brossard, works by Fabienne Courtade and Jean-Michel Espitallier. She=20 is one of several editors of Double Change, a web journal dedicated to=20= French-American interaction in poetry. To Tell the Lamp is forthcoming=20= from Avec Books in 2004. Pierre Joris has published over 20 books and=20 chapbooks of poetry, including Poasis (Wesleyan UP), h.j.r. (OtherWind=20= Press), Winnetou Old (Meow Press, Buffalo, NY), Turbulence (St. Lazaire=20= Press, Rhinebeck), and Breccia: Selected Poems 1974-1986 (Editions Phi=20= / Station Hill). He has also published many volumes of translations,=20 including Paul Celan=92s Theadsuns and Breathturn, Maurice Blanchot=92s = The=20 Unavowable Community & Edmond Jab=E8s=92s =46rom the Desert to the Book.=20= Rothenberg & Joris=92s collaboration, Selected Writings of Kurt=20 Schwitters (Temple UP, 1993) was awarded the 1994 PEN Center USA West=20 Literary Award for Translation. Partial support for this series has been provided by the New York State=20= Council on the Arts. ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:21:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "James W. Cook" Subject: Re: places to live Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>Does Ferrini get any money? I don't believe so but I'll ask. >>How long does his position last? In Gloucester it's a lifetime appointment as far as I can tell, though in Rockport (the farthest reaches of Cape Ann mentioned pejoratively in a post by Ron Silliman in this thread) the position is an annual one. In Gloucester the position was invented for Ferrini so it will be interesting to see what happens to it in the future. >>He must be getting up there since Olson was writing to him in the early >>fifties. Did he take to heart any of Olson's admonitions concerning his >>writing? Here's a link to an article about Vincent turning 90 that appeared recently in the Gloucester Daily Times. (I am not related to the article's author {Greg Cook} though we are good friends. He's a terrific cartoonist too. See highwaterbooks.com.) http://info.chymes.org/notes/ferrini_glou_times.html In the article Greg comments a bit on Vincent's writing. For my part I will say this... I enjoy his letters to the editor though I often find them obscure. I also enjoyed _No Smoke_ which first appeared 1941 & was recently republished. The poems are about the working class in his hometown, Lynn, Massachusetts). I agree w/ Greg's comments about Vincent's attempt to render a Sicilian-Gloucester accent in _No Fish_. {Full disclosure: Greg once gave me a copy of _No Fish_ as a gift.} >>Also, what letters does he write to the paper? Does he structure them as >>poems? The article, if memory serves, deals w/ this a bit too. Off the top of my head, I recall letters about mayors, local painters, the march to war, local authors, etc. Many of them show enthusiasm for an artist's/writer's work. (After reading Demon of the Waters_ (about the Globe Mutiny, pub. Little, Brown, & Co.) he compared the book's author Gregor Gibson--a local {&, in the name of further full disclosure, my wife's boss--to Melville.) The political poems/letters--some of them are in lines, others are written as prose--tend to be more obscure, usually referring to something like the failure of x politician/gov't body to affirm life/energy or to act w/ wisdom. Abstractions are coupled w/ action verbs. I've clipped some of them but can't put my hands on any just now. Anyone out there who has read some of Vincent's letters & disagrees w/ my assessment please write(!) I have many fond memories of Vincent: yelling down Main Street to tell me about a new translation of the Iliad he had just finished; or rising from his seat to take his turn at the podium during a reading at The Bookstore (he followed Gerrit Lansing who was spellbinding), swaggering as he approached the mic, holding no poems, and then intoning, "Politics/is the manure/of the Pegasus"--as if no other words were needed-- before sitting down. That was it. That was his reading.) In Gloucester, Vincent has been an exemplar of perserverance & energy. His presence & advice have been important to many. (Ask Joe Torra--_My Ground_ trilogy, _Keep Watching the Sky_, http://www.canwehaveourballback.com/6torra.htm, etc.--about his early meetings w/ Vincent.) To open this note to wider issues: Are there characteristics of a poet laureate that are as important as her or his poems? Do poet laureates matter at all? paz, j.c. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:35:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: places to live Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3F09C129.2D709A6C@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As a society we've been speeding away from democracy as fast as the powers that be and the bulk of the electorate can manage. In that light, it's worth asking why we did without laureates for two centuries and suddenly they sprout like weeds. I realize the issue is purely symbolic, but we're poets, and we're supposed to know that symbols matter. Mark At 02:51 PM 7/7/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: >Kirby Olson wrote: > > > James W. Cook, and poet laureate of places idea thinkers: > > > > I'm not sure why every town can't have a poet laureate as long as they > > are paid nothing and the idea is merely honorary. Why would anybody > > flip? It would create interest in the art, and although there might > > be a few jealous poets who didn't get the position, they could always > > pat themselves on the back and say, I'm too radical for this town. > > > > Does Ferrini get any money, and how long does his position last? Is > > he in it for life? He must be getting up there since Olson was > > writing to him in the early fifties. Did he take to heart any of > > Olson's admonitions concerning his writing? Also, what letters does > > he write to the paper? Does he structure them as poems? > > > > -- Kirby Olson > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:40:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest In-Reply-To: <3F08A89B.BA20600F@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii About form, ghazal, following the rules, judges, and stuff: Some of the best--in all senses: passionate, overwrought, dramatic, melodramatic, technically perfect, technically rule-breaking, etc.--ghazals in English are found in Agha Shahid Ali's books "Ravishing DisUnities" and "Call Me Ishmael Tonight" though he's of course by no means the only writer doing ghazals in English. He is though probably the main practitioner of the form in English who hails from the Urdu speaking world. But Ali's attention to the form (he would scold you Kirby for suggested we don't have to follow *all* the classical rules of ghazal) had more to do with his understanding of that form's inherent relationship (think Creeley) to the ghazal's peculiar brand of "meaning-making" -- i.e. the "thought" is created by the very gymnastic constraint of the rules than any belief Ali had in so-called "purity" of "form," or rule-following for mere sake of fulfilling a particular formal requirement. What's interesting is that when Ali translated Faiz Ahmed Faiz's ghazals into English he did *not* try to replicate the "form" of the ghazal in English as he later espoused it, but rather tried to appromiximate the intent of the poetry. I think later he may have come to believe that the intent was *inseparable* from the form. So I think if you are going to try to write "ghazal" you should give yourself over to the form as it has developed over centuries and not try to work inside it. The whole ridiculous point of "form" is to be constrained by. (Tho' Buddha teaches "form is no other than emptiness...emptiness no other than form..." Ali's essay of the "rules" of the ghazal in English is in Annie Finch's book "After New Formalism". I think no need to have a "practicing" Muslim judge. The "ghazal" has drunkenness, heresy, and apostasy at the very heart of it. And also not. Also pure devotion, absolute faith, dynamic rapture in the belief of unity of all things. Find some sadhu or kabbalist or mystic or lunatic or drunk. Have that person judge. Or have that person not-judge. Kazim ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:53:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: places, poets, politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Listmembers interested in this discussion should know about the review of Vincent Ferrini's *The Mysterium of Matter* by Ken Warren in the latest issue of his excellent *House Organ* magazine. (I'd say more about the review but I'm still trying to figure it out.) Hard to know what a poet laureate might do or not do. I thought Robert Haas was more effective in the role than the media-friendly Pinsky, but for the life of me, I can't remember why. On another note, it's very good news to hear about cris cheek's collaboration, which I've immediately ordered via paypal. Several months ago cris responded to one of my long rants about the paucity of political work with a query for members to post some; few, if any, took up the challenge. The market for medieval ghazals seems more vital. Of course the relation between politics and poetry isn't a simple one. I hope to have finished an essay soon about the related practice of Ed Dorn and Walter Benjamin that will problematize the issue even more. In the meantime, check out www.centomag.org -- its editors have put together a handsome collection of reminiscences and comment about Dorn that's worth your time. Finally, finally . . . what about a thread on places to *visit*? For example, I'm trying to decide whether to use some frequent flyer miles to visit Europe this summer, from mid-August to mid-September. But if I do, I'd go to Paris and southern Italy and the Czech Republic and the Greek island of Sifnos . . . all places I know, partly to visit friends. If I had four or five additional days on the continent . . . where should I spend them? (Of course, visiting Europe has a built-in problem: one would have to come back). Joe Safdie -----Original Message----- From: James W. Cook To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: 7/7/03 2:21 PM Subject: Re: places to live >>Does Ferrini get any money? I don't believe so but I'll ask. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:01:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest Comments: To: Kazim Ali In-Reply-To: <20030707214052.72452.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks Kazim for putting all this together. Very clear and helpful. Interesting how 'mericans love to mis-wrought the well wrought, formal or otherwise. A cultural habit of being out on the range without a set of tools(?): ignore the trail and improv the way over the mountain. Or the anxiety many of us have around Yvor Winters & Co. Thanks again, Stephen Vincent on 7/7/03 2:40 PM, Kazim Ali at kaajumiah@YAHOO.COM wrote: > About form, ghazal, following the rules, judges, and > stuff: > > > > Some of the best--in all senses: passionate, > overwrought, dramatic, melodramatic, technically > perfect, technically rule-breaking, etc.--ghazals in > English are found in Agha Shahid Ali's books > "Ravishing DisUnities" and "Call Me Ishmael Tonight" > though he's of course by no means the only writer > doing ghazals in English. > > He is though probably the main practitioner of the > form in English who hails from the Urdu speaking > world. > > But Ali's attention to the form (he would scold you > Kirby for suggested we don't have to follow *all* the > classical rules of ghazal) had more to do with his > understanding of that form's inherent relationship > (think Creeley) to the ghazal's peculiar brand of > "meaning-making" -- i.e. the "thought" is created by > the very gymnastic constraint of the rules than any > belief Ali had in so-called "purity" of "form," or > rule-following for mere sake of fulfilling a > particular formal requirement. > > What's interesting is that when Ali translated Faiz > Ahmed Faiz's ghazals into English he did *not* try to > replicate the "form" of the ghazal in English as he > later espoused it, but rather tried to appromiximate > the intent of the poetry. I think later he may have > come to believe that the intent was *inseparable* from > the form. > > So I think if you are going to try to write "ghazal" > you should give yourself over to the form as it has > developed over centuries and not try to work inside > it. The whole ridiculous point of "form" is to be > constrained by. > > (Tho' Buddha teaches "form is no other than > emptiness...emptiness no other than form..." > > Ali's essay of the "rules" of the ghazal in English is > in Annie Finch's book "After New Formalism". > > > > I think no need to have a "practicing" Muslim judge. > The "ghazal" has drunkenness, heresy, and apostasy at > the very heart of it. > > And also not. Also pure devotion, absolute faith, > dynamic rapture in the belief of unity of all things. > > Find some sadhu or kabbalist or mystic or lunatic or > drunk. Have that person judge. Or have that person > not-judge. > > > > > Kazim > > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:27:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Is economy a subset of ecology? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Talk about a loaded deck (see below)! Rousseau would have decided to give up writing. Economy a subset of: stomach enzyme. * Share your views for a share of US$65,000 The Economist and Shell have joined forces once again for the fourth international writing competition to encourage future thinking. This year's competition poses the question: Do we need nature? What are the difficult choices that need to be made in politics, economics, society and public policy? And who is right…? Those whose actions (or inactions) seek to increase man's control over nature, or those who seek to reduce man's control? Those who seek to bypass nature, or those who hope to work with it? Those who put a higher value on human development, or those who value the preservation, even the reconstitution of nature? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:48:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Boog non-NY Small Press Series 2003-2004 Sked In-Reply-To: <1c3.c007475.2c33bb4b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear David, Feb. 5 is looking very solid for Chax. I do wonder, though, if it might be possible to include as many as possible of the poets Chax has published who live within proximity and are willing to come. Chax Press may not do another event in New York for years, and we've not done one yet (except for just a reading by me, and one talk about books years ago at Granary). That would mean, possibly -- Charles Bernstein, Hank Lazer, Jackson Mac Low, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Ron Silliman, Allison Cobb, Gil Ott (if he is well enough to make it), Eli Goldblatt, Karen Mac Cormack, Steve McCaffery (I already have a nod from them that they'd like to come and participate), and me. There may even be one or two more. So I'm a bit concerned about the format, of two twenty-minute segments). So, if Chax had ten or twelve poets there, would it be possible to get enough time to offer everyone ten minutes? Thanks, Charles At 12:36 AM 7/2/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks everyone for yr queries and comments on the new series. Here's the now >full sked, some of which is tentative. > >as ever, >david > >_________ > >Aug. 7 Boog City (New York City) 12th anniversary party >Sept. 11 Meritage Press (San Francisco/St. Helena, Calif.) >Oct. 2 The Owl Press (Woodacre, Calif.) >Nov. 6 Avec Books (Penngrove, Calif.) >Dec. 4 CyPress (Cincinnati, Ohio) >Jan. 8 above/ground press (Ottawa, Canada) >Feb. 5 Chax Press (Tucson, Arizona) >March 4 Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio) >April 1 Bird Dog magazine (Seattle, Wash.) >May 6 Oasis Press (Brunswick, Maine) >June 3 Combo (Providence, Rhode Island) >July 1 a Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada press, which is too tentative >to mention charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:54:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Boog non-NY Small Press Series 2003-2004 Sked In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030707154341.01b645c0@mail.theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I am very sorry to have posted something to the list that was intended solely for an individual. Charles ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:04:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Fwd: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_192.1cf85e1c.2c3b566d_boundary" --part1_192.1cf85e1c.2c3b566d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently I should have sent this to Poetics rather than to Kirby Olson. Here it is now. Sincerely Harriet Zinnes --part1_192.1cf85e1c.2c3b566d_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part2_192.1cf85e1c.2c3a0671_boundary" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Kirby Olson Do you know the paperback edited by Agha Shahid Ali called RAVISHING DISUNITIES: REal Ghazals in English (Wesleyan IUniversity Press, 2000). I am sure the book will please you. And may I be immodest and say the following ghazal of mine is included in the book. Here it is. How Many Bouquets The lover holds the letter in the palm of his hand. Unread it flutters as it wilts in his hand. There are oceans to cross but the harbor is sealed. Why not, she said, pick up shells from my hand? Bejeweled the queen makes a tragic false start. Her consort, resigned, plays the card in his hand. It is bewitched, the child cries out to her nanny, Who laughs as the parrot eats from her hand. There are eels, a dead whale, a voice in the sand. Will Poe kiss the unringed, quivering, ghostlike hand? She is cold in her bed and the butler with tea Wavers once, wavers twice, spills the tea on her hand. It is the story of the rose. How many bouquets? The tide slaps the oozing sand. Unmanned, he slaps her hand. Harriet Zinnes --part1_192.1cf85e1c.2c3b566d_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:20:46 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Bells & Whistles Comments: To: UK Poetry List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.arras.net/weblog/ My hope is to gather more thoughts on this "School of Quietude" issue while I may, running up against this logic of the blog, which is to permit spokes of divergent meaning that could distract from a potentially absent core (I like the centripetal / centrifugal dialectic but it has its dangers). However, Ron Silliman asks, on his blog, whether a certain statement of his on "vispo" -- visual poetry, a sort of grab bag descendent of Concrete poetry and, I guess, visual digital stuff -- is what I, in my statement on Lowell, characterized as RS's "famously knee-jerk, even reactionary, positions." I'm not going to claim that what I wrote was very nice -- it wasn't, of course, and I suppose I could become infamous for being knee-jerk as well -- so I apologize. But one might almost believe that Silliman is the most read critic in our decidedly uncritical America right now (certainly his advertisements of his hit count, a weird tick that other bloggers have picked up, seem to suggest it) along with the most trusted (I don't ever actually read much in terms of criticism of his very content, and he's certainly very selective of what he links to). Anyway, so I poked the growing behemoth, if only to give a little flavor to what I wrote and, more importantly, to keep it honest. Going out on a limb with something a little off-color like that while trying to make a point leaves one vulnerable to being dismissed outright. Most recently, Ron writes: "One thing that all the works I looked at here have in common is that they’ re static – straight JPEG files, no Flash, not even an animated GIF. This I found very liberating. It puts all of the demands of the work right back onto the image itself, rather than trying to distract us with bells & whistles. It also suggests work that, over time, will be able to survive beyond current computing platforms. Anyone who is old enough to have seen “animated” poems written in Harvard Graphics or Ventura Publisher when they were the presentation software programs of the day will recognize the advantage of that. At the very worst, these works can just be scanned into whatever new platform exists ten, fifty or 150 years from now & be good to go, something you can be certain won’t happen with the present generation of animated, sound-augmented writing." There are several obvious flaws to this statement. For starters, this assumption that .jpegs and .gifs will be what creators of new computer platforms will want to preserve from old ones, and not Flash and sound files. Why is this? Both formats are simply rows of digits that are then interpreted into something -- an image, a sound, a bit of interactive software -- that is translated by a machine into something more or less comprehensible by the senses and intellect. That one is for a "two-dimensional" image file and the other a "three-dimensional" or time-based digital object should not distract one from the like basis of each. The second is a sort of purism about the "image itself" apart from the "bells and whistles." Did one ever write, after the first decades of film, that "I like this photograph because, unlike a movie, we are not distracted by the motion of the objects -- they just sit there to be looked at"? Or after listening to a quartet of Beethoven's: "I would have much preferred one stringed instrument as the other three were distracting." Certainly, any Flash artist would want to create works that integrate the separate elements into a whole -- if it fails, that's one thing, but the tool or the motivation itself cannot be blamed. (I've never used sound in my Flash works because I suck at it.) The third is to compare the trivial experiments in the very nascent stages of a technology -- the animated poems of Harvard Graphics or Ventura Publisher (I haven't seen them, but no doubt these are silent and without interactivity) with poems in Flash. This would be comparable to criticizing cinema based on the films of Muybridge and Edison, or criticizing live motion digital graphics -- the stuff that brings you Titanic and Matrix Reloaded -- based on an anecdote about Max Headroom and early episodes of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Ironically, people love to look at these early incarnations of art in new media -- the retrospective of video work from the 70s that was up at the Whitney two years ago was fantastic, and emulators of early computer platforms are rampant on the internet -- there's even one for the ZX81 (search my blog to find it). Lastly, it's quite obvious that Flash cannot be "scanned into a new medium" but neither can film -- can you imagine people walking around holding flip-books of Abel Gance's three-screen, 6-hour or so long Napoleon in front of gas lamps? And can visual poetry be "scanned and good to go"? I suppose the assumption is that one prints out a .jpeg, that the paper on which it's printed will last 150 years, and then it can be scanned to reproduce what the original .jpeg looked like. But inkjet inks don't last that long, and cultural memory is even shorter -- who will be around to say you got it right, and who is creating verbal descriptions for this work now? (Needless to say, one can't scan in ballet.) One thing I always ask, though, when I see "vispo" is not "is it poetry" but, in the most basic sense, "what is it about"? I rarely see discussions of content, of social relevance, of ethics, or even of art history -- as in the use of appropriation to give a discursive element to what might otherwise be a completely non-linguistic creation -- in relation to "vispo." Is it all just tweaking the sign / image divide? Is it's only purpose to make us ask questions of genre? Why have no visual poets tried to occupy the same space in American culture that, say, Andy Warhol did, or try to be as politically relevant and upsetting as the Situationists (or the clowns who made that "Empire Strikes Back" poster with Rumsfeld cast as Darth Vader)? I think there is content to Miekel And's work, for example, it seems to have some spiritual / ecological dimension -- some relation of the organic component of graphemes that suggests an interest in biodiversity -- and Basinski often incorporates aspects of Greek mythology in his work that seem to suggest a relationship to the paintings of Cy Twombly when drops in tags about the sacking of Troy, etc. There's probably writing on them somewhere but I've not investigated it. The list of great predecessors -- Finlay, de Campos -- are rich in social and aesthetic dimensions that I've written about elsewhere (my article in Jacket appears here: http://www.jacketmagazine.com/15/finlay-by-stefans.html; a better one by Drew Milne appears here: http://www.jacketmagazine.com/15/finlay-milne.html). Certainly, the TRG -- Steve McCaffery and bpNichol -- have created a rich discourse around their work that investigates some of the classic concepts familiar from Language poetry and deconstructionism, but with a "pataphysical dimension and modal variety that make reading this work fulfilling in its own right, beyond its use as "theory." "Content" might be a clumsy word to use when discussing the thematics of what Finlay is doing -- I often use the term "thematics" instead, since, at best, the disparate universe of his works points to some pre-Socratic philosophical landscape (located "here and now" in Scotland, of course) that simply cannot be revealed in material world. His content is the lava of history that flows under our fragile creations -- the Roman coliseum, the Macintosh computer -- and which only reveals itself in moments of terrible conflagration, social "eruptions" in a sense. It's all very scary. But certainly, one might look at his use of charged political symbols, such as the guillotine and the swastika, as some attempt to insure his work is never discussed in purely formal terms -- is it "poetry" or not? -- but rather to throw the focus on these subterranean aspects of his themes. If only for this reason, I've often focused on Finlay's place in the "vispo" universe -- he doesn't let you relax into your prejudices. Ironically, Ron has chosen a purely aesthetic -- dare I say "quietist" -- stance, and one based on fairly conservative aesthetic positions (the "pure" image released from any sort of social or historical considerations) to discuss, and subtly shout down, the innovations that are being made in poetry using Flash and other new media technologies. His statement are even angled such as to preclude the possibility of such innovations, without a single piece of historical data to justify this preclusion. I'll be the first to say that there is a lot of pretty clunky stuff being done in Flash, but my sense is that no "tradition" (or shall we say "lineage") in the arts is never as clean as one would like (but who wants it clean?). One needn't throw away the technology after discovering that the technology itself does not provide enough material for the theme of the work -- quite the contrary, this void or emptiness can be a beginning (not to sound too much like Yoda). I'll be happy when Flash works are not "about Flash" or "about interactivity," not to mention when poetry is not "about language" or "about lineage." I hope this doesn't sound prescriptive -- all options seem, to me, open (except, of course, that of being "quiet"). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:47:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: having been blue for charity In-Reply-To: <000001c343ba$e3a53920$0100a8c0@bucephalus> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable having been blue for charity later at the precise time never-never skip-skip - in hand never more = =20 / down the mountain with zero say can u new . . . . . . . . right there - draged in as a vicious transparency - day light =20= toying with an assumed ideal (traaa la. traaa la.) ideal was =20 momentarily shut down in a webbing ten billion years long - for told =20= in the Lily Dale night-n-day. (traaa la. traaa la.) screaming pure sensation: =93you will loop and dance, never be =20 translated, delayed if need be, raw material from a sold out carcus. =20 =93i=94 am sutopsychophysical with reinforcements . . . you are = nothing =20 but a diagnosis.=94 this is where broken glass remnants & defiled fruit-in-a-tree reveal =20= a pattern - echoes stomping - =93boots, boots, boots, boots=94 on = demand, =20 histories unapproachable glimpses, front porch similes. on and on it =20= went . . . a nightmare in slow motion with an extra stickie sauce for =20= the barbecue. as the hideous montage walked by and keep walking by =20 .... a million more walked by and keep walking by.... (traaa la. traaa =20= la.) oooooo-------------------------=20 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||=20= |||||||||||=20 =20= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:09:41 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: ghazals & stuff re: ghazals & stuff. check out john thompson (the late). he had the best. his collected poems came out from goose lane in 1995. also, i wrote a piece on andy weaver (from edmonton) who had some fukkin amazing ghazal work in the 2nd issue of www.poetics.ca otherwise, phyllis webb & douglas barbour. tho im sure some non-canadians did some ghazal work too, eh. rob -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:07:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Beyond Bells & Whistles: Knee-jerk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Actually, this is not precisely on topic with Brian's post. What, though, would a poetics of "Knee-jerk" "look like?" I.e., a poetics of overcoming "the Knee-jerk," deconstructing it, getting beyond it, etc., I guess... Is even that, the notion it would have to be "overcome," deconstructed, transcended, or otherwise "garbaged" a knee-jerk notion in itself? Maybe... Watched Molly Ivins, O'Reilly (knee-jerk decision to omit for him a first name, smile?), and Al Franken (Victor Frankle, smile?) on C-span 1 or 2 a few evenings ago. Pretty delicious, incidentally. Franken/Frankle was in top form and pulled no punches. (Or was he "in top form?" Wasn't it more a "material" than formal thing (Michael Palmer distinction between formal and material poetries), straight up and forward with "content" and "directly" and INTIMATELY challenging O'Reilly to take reponsibility for "lying," to which the latter responded "in form," with exceptionally angry "Shut up" act (and exhibits archetypal difference between Left Sophisticated and Right Superior, too, i.e., Frankle actualizes vulnerability, whereas O'Reilly will not admit being imperfect or wrong, will predictably only lash back with anger when delivered criticism -- which is also vulnerability, tho, too, as it takes great courage to get angry ('cept not all the time?)). Anyway, using these three or imaginative caricatures of them, say, what would a poetry making transparent, and examining and resisting, "their" knee-jerk languages be like? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Another topic: Am sure this has been discussed in more elegant and efficient terms, but if one divides "writing" into "truth" and "beauty" (and I'm not saying anything about "poetry," necessarily, as "it" is the bogeyman here, to some degree), how can a great deal of attention during a time like this be spent concerning oneself with "beauty" when it is "truth" that is most threatened? I know that this is a terribly simplistic and unspecific dichotomy, but does anyone else feel torn between creating a writing that pursues "truth" and creating a writing that seeks to be framed as "poetry" and/or appeal to "poets?" Am struggling with this a lot lately, myself (perhaps always have), and with a piece (poem?) called, for now, "You will be told that," which as anyone can imagine can go anywhere from propaganda to deconstruction of the second person pronoun. More to the point, though, Damn I can feel "the knee-jerk" habit of turning the first draft (not yet typed) into more consciously manipulated line breaks and increasing the irony and becoming increasingly more aware of how "poet readers in my mind's eye/ear/wit" would read it and how before that, in the first draft (handwritten) it had what at least felt like a more powerful potential to communicate directly to a very wide range of readers and perhaps not be in the forms of "lines/linebreaks" at all. Or I can feel where suddenly I have to make a choice between adding the "self-reflexive" and wit or keeping things on the same nonplayful and same dimensional track. Then things get frustrating, for I don't know how to bridge the two impulses, and it feels like a sham to "reduce" the writing to "poetry." (Not saying it's good writing either way, or will be, but just describing my bind/conflict -- and sometime antipathy for "clamor for poetry.") Really, Steve Tills P.S. (Have been following Brian's and Ron's blog a little, two that I most frequently choose to lurk on, as they're always excellent. Have even pulled my old copy of *Life Studies* (purchased for a class in 1977 and not much read since) out from the cobwebs and started a re-read of some of the poems and especially "Words for Hart Crane"). Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:22:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion In-Reply-To: <200307071526.h67FQ0Rx020485@kaneda.boo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allot of people on the site are writing about why the right has its shit together and the left does not. I am prob the only person on this site who went to GOP Campaign school and worked when I was in college for Reagan and I have to tell you that the reason that the right wins is because they learned from great leftists of the past to be ruthless. The GOP and the Conservative movement was build upon resentment and giving voice to people who the left chose to ignore, white ethnics, white southerners, lower middle class workers and suburbanites a voice. This is a message drilled into everyone on the right just look at who are Fox's key personalities, Bill O'Reilly a self described Irish Catholic from Long Island, Sean Hannity, look at Rush Limbaugh, he is an evangelical from Missouri, Anne Coulter is a a German American Catholic School product, and the list goes on. The model for much of what the right does is not Fascism it is the old left of Richard Daley and FDR and old labor. If you look at the rise of the Right in the USA what did they do to build themselves up? 1) They allied themselves with easy issues that were easy to convey and they did it in a non elitist way.. 2) The left on the other hand was spending its time drumming the Richard Daley's,Jimmy Hoffa's and John Connally's out of its ranks this created resentment among these core groups the result was that they left and today congressmen like William Lipinski in Chicago or Zell Miller in Georgia are rarities in the Democratic party. 3) The fact is that the key swing groups in this country, many that have leftist economic views but conservative morals, are white ethnics in the north and white southerners this group is over 40% of the US population and the Conservatives focused on this group and while many of them, especially the Catholics and Southern/Northern Labor Union members were genetically democrats and liberal on allot of issues for example 60% of all Catholics oppose the death penalty, they left and voted for the GOP because no one spoke to them in the Democratic party except Bill Clinton, since 1964 Bill Clinton was the only Democrat to do well with these voters. 4) FDR and LBJ understood that the key to winning elections was to build a coalition of people who have some things in common, not all things in common, and they won, and the right was all but wiped away from 1933-1964 but Conservatives learned well from FDR and built their own coalition. 5) But the left still has the neo-Marxist notion that you must be on board on all issues to be part of a movement as FDR said someone who is with me 80% of the time is not my 20% enemy he is my 80% friend. This is something that most on the left do not understand. The fact is that while the left has preached ideological purity and elitism the right has gathered together a coalition and this coalition is growing in the South West they are spending millions on Hispanics and in New York they are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are smarter because they realize that winning leads to governing and building a coalition is key to this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, Blacks some Hispanics and what is Left of the Union vote you need more votes and they are to be found in white working and lower middle and the middle class. The left has not given the members of the Right's coalition a reason to look to them, when industrial jobs were being destroyed in this country environmentalists looked upon this as a way to clean up the environment. Today industrial jobs are a memory in the nation and it is hard to have a labor movement without these jobs and Labor's strength is the reason that Europe has a humane system and we do not. While affirmative action is essential and needed for African Americans the left has not come up with anything to help those people who do not fall into a protected group for education and opportunity. If you are a working class white male from Appalachia or Queens or Berwyn, IL there is no one offering you a hand you are considered 'white'just like some society WASP from Connecticut and you wonder why these people vote Republican? They do not feel that anyone on the left is listening as their opportunities are taken away; go to neighborhoods like Hegwisch here in Chicago and see the three generation Union families that are on welfare now because the factories moved to China, there are millions of Americans in this position and no one on the left cares. Franco once said that the reason the left lost in Spain is because they thought they knew what the 'people'wanted but they did not know any 'people'. I think that the left needs to spend more time with regular working people and less time in university towns and elite neighborhoods if the left did this and really listened there is no way that the right could win another election and Fox would not matter > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Frank Sherlock > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:25 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > A few things- the fix. Didn't you blame Nader a few posts ago? > Was Nader in on > the fix? Maybe your point is that Nader made it close. My point is that it > should have never been close. But okay. > > "Corporations are taking over the reins of government." The > reason Nader got > any votes at all was because corporations HAVE TAKEN government. > Al Gore is a > great example, in fact. > > The cartoon history of the right wing does no one justice. Is the > right really > simple? Saying they "always have their shit together" is another > way of making > an excuse why the left doesn't. > > The left is no more complicated. It shouldn't be, unless we want > to come off as > the oh so complex & enlightened good guys that know what's best > for everyone > whether they like it or not. > > "Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy." Come on. Do you really > believe he > was any less complicated than say, Bill Clinton? > > Dismissal of the right squanders the opportunity to know it, > dissect it & learn > from it. > > The "literate equals progressive" argument is elitist, but also > untrue. Brazil > elected Lula- maybe the most progressive leader in the world, while France > recently had a runoff election w/ a neo-nazi. > > I'd just like to say- hold on, Joel. Don't give up so early in > the game. You > seem like a good guy, & I just can't believe that Joe Leiberman > is the man for > you.> > > > > Frank: > > > > We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida > was fixed. Not > > to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not > criticizing > > your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more > than worthwhile. > > But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and > badly, during my > > lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't > afford it, as > > corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the > right-wing, > > in any country, always has the shit together, as their program > is simple: > > power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy. The > > right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to > simplicity and > > the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the > master of secrecy > > and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While democracy is > > about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the > laundry out. > > And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. > > As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next > election. I agree > > that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the > national election. > > You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level > and quality of > > a country's literacy. Need I say more? > > > > -Joel > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who > couldn't win > > > in > > > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm saying > > this- > > > > again. > > > > > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already decided that a > > > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is > what you're > > > told. > > > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. > You're that > > > scared? > > > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A > > candidate > > > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL > NOT win in > > > 2004. > > > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve what you > > get. > > > > > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > > > alternative, > > > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten > Commandments will take > > the > > > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh > all the way to > > > his > > > > > next war. > > > > > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie > Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of > > > elected > > > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual > > citizen > > > > > become > > > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this > list again. I > > do > > > > > want to > > > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are > fueling the fear > > fire > > > as > > > > > a > > > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the > latest polls. As > > > long > > > > > as > > > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean > it, as we're > > > > > witnessing. > > > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the > candidate, & nobody > > > really > > > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand > > > > > accountability > > > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & > again. If we > > > don't > > > > > support > > > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's > > election, > > > we > > > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, > and now the > > > stakes > > > > > are > > > > > > > much higher. > > > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so > that after the > > > > > convention > > > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will > move Kerry to > > the > > > > > left in > > > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes > to shove, > > i.e. > > > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we > can't make change > > > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still > > make > > > a > > > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his > Wrecking Crew > > out > > > of > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around > the world, > > of > > > the > > > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest > Democrat needs to be > > > > > running > > > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the > > > strongest > > > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign > > policy, > > > but > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has > done damage > > > already, > > > > > > > wait > > > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to > pay attention > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and > > culture > > > has > > > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis > > > Kucinich. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis > > Kucinich > > > for > > > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland > Americans who > > > are > > > > > too > > > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that > his whole > > > > > political > > > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > > Washington, > > > but > > > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and > > > bravery > > > > > who > > > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the > late Senator > > Paul > > > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual > privacy, safe food > > > laws > > > > > and > > > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the > > > interests > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and > environment above > > the > > > > > greed > > > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in > politics, > > but > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with > > politics. > > > I > > > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us > and I will > > be > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I > plan to do > > > concerts > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does > not reflect the > > > views > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the > > > support of > > > > > a > > > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values > of America." > > ## > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, > > > momentum > > > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we > > > increase > > > > > our > > > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and > > > > > fundraising. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If > > Dennis > > > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less > reason to have > > a > > > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive > > Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. > With so many > > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not > just us. To see > > > why > > > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:21:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Beyond Bells & Whistles: Knee-jerk Comments: cc: Clint Burnham MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Steve T, "What, though, would a poetics of "Knee-jerk" "look like?" I.e., a poetics of overcoming "the Knee-jerk," deconstructing it, getting beyond it, etc., I guess..." In that sense of a poetics, as you raise it, Lucy Lippard actually called it "retrochic" in late 70s during punk heyday, and there's numerous moments of or allusions to it today and yesterday in poetry and beyond, which I consider in a post (on allusion and Bruce Andrews) to Silliman's blog due, I believe, tomorrow (and coming out there because he inspired les pensees). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:30:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=CF=83=CE=B5=CF=96=CE=B5=CE=BD______________=CE=BF?= =?UTF-8?Q?=CF=86_=CE=B7=CE=B9=CE=BC=CE=BC?= In-Reply-To: <001701c344ef$61c24520$a650a243@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =CF=83=CE=B5=CF=96=CE=B5=CE=BD =CE=BF=CF=86 =CE=B7=CE=B9=CE=BC= =CE=BC rest seems of no use here other than a abbey-luber dense cloud in=20= makeup;;;;;or;;;;;an imbroglio low creeping mist choreographed to=20 believe the rhetorical Fate foretold-------< now (just) A collapsing=20= fiber.:. - an alabaster battlement of radical banality,=E2=80=99, = (those)=20 personified arguments over pronouns lost at the fringe. the mortar is added - - paranoia creeps in this is blue Moon land where Angels spew = forth from homes=20 festoon in post polyester abomination. the artificial sun appears=20 behind constant activity , only to be over-shad owed by ~ a=20 one legged profit proclaiming abortive soothing towards BoDy=20 osmosis d-fleshD to the chemical dogs of insanity. the blue\\\=20= moon=E2=80=99s \\\ orbit \\\\\ begins to morph to a black-and-white = still =20 with a chatty background. all the while,,, _ arbitrary body bat=E2=80=99= s=20 dart in a constant state of malnutrition thoughout the last night of=20= the setting blue moon, each bat, chases each morsel, gowl and tail, =20= empty and pointless.=20= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:47:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion In-Reply-To: <001701c344ef$61c24520$a650a243@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed All of this is very nice, except for the parts that are simply stupid (environmentalists didn't force manufacturing jobs overseas, lower wages did. As I write, US manufacturers are beginning to abandon their factories in Tijuana, where environmental regulations aren't enforced, because 55 cents an hour is simply too much to pay a worker when you can get the same job done for 12 cents in China), but it doesn't change the fact that the Republican senate majority represents 42 % of the population and the Democratic minority represents 58%, because of the unequal distribution of population, which means that democrats have to work a lot harder than Republicans to do as well, and they have to do it, let's remember, on a lot less money. It also overlooks that even tho he ran an incredibly inept campaign on a lot less money Gore won the popular vote and very nearly the electoral college and that he would have won easily without Nader splitting the vote. The shift in the relative power of the parties happened when northern Democrats decided that segregation had to go. You could say that they became purists and lost touch with the south. What would you have preferred? More lynchings? Unending tolerance for bigotry? Mark At 08:22 PM 7/7/2003 -0500, Haas Bianchi wrote: >Allot of people on the site are writing about why the right has its shit >together and the left does not. I am prob the only person on this site who >went to GOP Campaign school and worked when I was in college for Reagan and >I have to tell you that the reason that the right wins is because they >learned from great leftists of the past to be ruthless. The GOP and the >Conservative movement was build upon resentment and giving voice to people >who the left chose to ignore, white ethnics, white southerners, lower middle >class workers and suburbanites a voice. This is a message drilled into >everyone on the right just look at who are Fox's key personalities, Bill >O'Reilly a self described Irish Catholic from Long Island, Sean Hannity, >look at Rush Limbaugh, he is an evangelical from Missouri, Anne Coulter is a >a German American Catholic School product, and the list goes on. > >The model for much of what the right does is not Fascism it is the old left >of Richard Daley and FDR and old labor. If you look at the rise of the Right >in the USA what did they do to build themselves up? 1) They allied >themselves with easy issues that were easy to convey and they did it in a >non elitist way.. 2) The left on the other hand was spending its time >drumming the Richard Daley's,Jimmy Hoffa's and John Connally's out of its >ranks this created resentment among these core groups the result was that >they left and today congressmen like William Lipinski in Chicago or Zell >Miller in Georgia are rarities in the Democratic party. 3) The fact is that >the key swing groups in this country, many that have leftist economic views >but conservative morals, are white ethnics in the north and white >southerners this group is over 40% of the US population and the >Conservatives focused on this group and while many of them, especially the >Catholics and Southern/Northern Labor Union members were genetically >democrats and liberal on allot of issues for example 60% of all Catholics >oppose the death penalty, they left and voted for the GOP because no one >spoke to them in the Democratic party except Bill Clinton, since 1964 Bill >Clinton was the only Democrat to do well with these voters. 4) FDR and LBJ >understood that the key to winning elections was to build a coalition of >people who have some things in common, not all things in common, and they >won, and the right was all but wiped away from 1933-1964 but Conservatives >learned well from FDR and built their own coalition. 5) But the left still >has the neo-Marxist notion that you must be on board on all issues to be >part of a movement as FDR said someone who is with me 80% of the time is not >my 20% enemy he is my 80% friend. This is something that most on the left >do not understand. > >The fact is that while the left has preached ideological purity and elitism >the right has gathered together a coalition and this coalition is growing in >the South West they are spending millions on Hispanics and in New York they >are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are smarter because they >realize that winning leads to governing and building a coalition is key to >this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, Blacks some Hispanics and >what is Left of the Union vote you need more votes and they are to be found >in white working and lower middle and the middle class. > >The left has not given the members of the Right's coalition a reason to look >to them, when industrial jobs were being destroyed in this country >environmentalists looked upon this as a way to clean up the environment. >Today industrial jobs are a memory in the nation and it is hard to have a >labor movement without these jobs and Labor's strength is the reason that >Europe has a humane system and we do not. > >While affirmative action is essential and needed for African Americans the >left has not come up with anything to help those people who do not fall into >a protected group for education and opportunity. If you are a working class >white male from Appalachia or Queens or Berwyn, IL there is no one offering >you a hand you are considered 'white'just like some society WASP from >Connecticut and you wonder why these people vote Republican? They do not >feel that anyone on the left is listening as their opportunities are taken >away; go to neighborhoods like Hegwisch here in Chicago and see the three >generation Union families that are on welfare now because the factories >moved to China, there are millions of Americans in this position and no one >on the left cares. Franco once said that the reason the left lost in Spain >is because they thought they knew what the 'people'wanted but they did not >know any 'people'. >I think that the left needs to spend more time with regular working people >and less time in university towns and elite neighborhoods if the left did >this and really listened there is no way that the right could win another >election and Fox would not matter > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Frank Sherlock > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:25 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > A few things- the fix. Didn't you blame Nader a few posts ago? > > Was Nader in on > > the fix? Maybe your point is that Nader made it close. My point is that it > > should have never been close. But okay. > > > > "Corporations are taking over the reins of government." The > > reason Nader got > > any votes at all was because corporations HAVE TAKEN government. > > Al Gore is a > > great example, in fact. > > > > The cartoon history of the right wing does no one justice. Is the > > right really > > simple? Saying they "always have their shit together" is another > > way of making > > an excuse why the left doesn't. > > > > The left is no more complicated. It shouldn't be, unless we want > > to come off as > > the oh so complex & enlightened good guys that know what's best > > for everyone > > whether they like it or not. > > > > "Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy." Come on. Do you really > > believe he > > was any less complicated than say, Bill Clinton? > > > > Dismissal of the right squanders the opportunity to know it, > > dissect it & learn > > from it. > > > > The "literate equals progressive" argument is elitist, but also > > untrue. Brazil > > elected Lula- maybe the most progressive leader in the world, while France > > recently had a runoff election w/ a neo-nazi. > > > > I'd just like to say- hold on, Joel. Don't give up so early in > > the game. You > > seem like a good guy, & I just can't believe that Joe Leiberman > > is the man for > > you.> > > > > > > > > Frank: > > > > > > We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida > > was fixed. Not > > > to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not > > criticizing > > > your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more > > than worthwhile. > > > But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and > > badly, during my > > > lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't > > afford it, as > > > corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the > > right-wing, > > > in any country, always has the shit together, as their program > > is simple: > > > power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy. The > > > right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to > > simplicity and > > > the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the > > master of secrecy > > > and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While democracy is > > > about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the > > laundry out. > > > And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. > > > As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next > > election. I agree > > > that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the > > national election. > > > You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level > > and quality of > > > a country's literacy. Need I say more? > > > > > > -Joel > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who > > couldn't win > > > > in > > > > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm saying > > > this- > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already decided that a > > > > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is > > what you're > > > > told. > > > > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. > > You're that > > > > scared? > > > > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > > > > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A > > > candidate > > > > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL > > NOT win in > > > > 2004. > > > > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve what you > > > get. > > > > > > > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > > > > alternative, > > > > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten > > Commandments will take > > > the > > > > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh > > all the way to > > > > his > > > > > > next war. > > > > > > > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie > > Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the concept of > > > > elected > > > > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the individual > > > citizen > > > > > > become > > > > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this > > list again. I > > > do > > > > > > want to > > > > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are > > fueling the fear > > > fire > > > > as > > > > > > a > > > > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the > > latest polls. As > > > > long > > > > > > as > > > > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean > > it, as we're > > > > > > witnessing. > > > > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the > > candidate, & nobody > > > > really > > > > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't demand > > > > > > accountability > > > > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & > > again. If we > > > > don't > > > > > > support > > > > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's > > > election, > > > > we > > > > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, > > and now the > > > > stakes > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > much higher. > > > > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so > > that after the > > > > > > convention > > > > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will > > move Kerry to > > > the > > > > > > left in > > > > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes > > to shove, > > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we > > can't make change > > > > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can still > > > make > > > > a > > > > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his > > Wrecking Crew > > > out > > > > of > > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around > > the world, > > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest > > Democrat needs to be > > > > > > running > > > > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, isn't the > > > > strongest > > > > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on foreign > > > policy, > > > > but > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has > > done damage > > > > already, > > > > > > > > wait > > > > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to > > pay attention > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music and > > > culture > > > > has > > > > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, Dennis > > > > Kucinich. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis > > > Kucinich > > > > for > > > > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland > > Americans who > > > > are > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that > > his whole > > > > > > political > > > > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > > > Washington, > > > > but > > > > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of conscience and > > > > bravery > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the > > late Senator > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual > > privacy, safe food > > > > laws > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will put the > > > > interests > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and > > environment above > > > the > > > > > > greed > > > > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in > > politics, > > > but > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with > > > politics. > > > > I > > > > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us > > and I will > > > be > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I > > plan to do > > > > concerts > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does > > not reflect the > > > > views > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to earn the > > > > support of > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values > > of America." > > > ## > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's endorsement, > > > > momentum > > > > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- as we > > > > increase > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our endorsements and > > > > > > fundraising. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: "If > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less > > reason to have > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive > > > Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. > > With so many > > > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not > > just us. To see > > > > why > > > > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 07> > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=601 > > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > >--------------------------------------------- >This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. >http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:25:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics [plain text message] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a little disorienting in our times with waves of emigres coming from all over. Are these Russian avant garde poets or Russian avant-garde poets of the emigre generation of 1917 or 1960 or 1980 and are the emigre poets of Russia or Ukrainia? I'm not saying this in a dismissive way at all and await my copy but I think the question might be of interest to the list as we start to see waves of emigre avant garde artists and \poets from other lands. Somebody needs to come up with a better way of classifying these things. tom bell leading emigre avant gardist from Milwaukee Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:13:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030707183431.02d34728@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did not say that environmentalists caused industrial jobs to leave what I said is that many were happy when they did go and no one on the left not Jesse Jackson or anyone else challenged this in Europe for example nations like Germany and Italy have spent billions retooling industries and retraining workers what have we done? Let our industrial cities rot. The issue is not how the Senate or the House is distributed or the fact that Rural areas are over represented the issue is that except for Bill Clinton no Democrat since LBJ has set forth a vision that the key swing voters wanted. Hell Al Gore lost his own home state and region if he had won one southern state he would be president today. I think that you make a mistake when you equate White Southern and Northern White Ethnic concerns with bigotry most are not bigots they work hard and play by the rules and have been victimized by changes that have benefited the elites in our society. > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mark Weiss > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 8:47 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my > Humble opinion > > > All of this is very nice, except for the parts that are simply stupid > (environmentalists didn't force manufacturing jobs overseas, lower wages > did. As I write, US manufacturers are beginning to abandon their factories > in Tijuana, where environmental regulations aren't enforced, because 55 > cents an hour is simply too much to pay a worker when you can get the same > job done for 12 cents in China), but it doesn't change the fact that the > Republican senate majority represents 42 % of the population and the > Democratic minority represents 58%, because of the unequal distribution of > population, which means that democrats have to work a lot harder than > Republicans to do as well, and they have to do it, let's > remember, on a lot > less money. It also overlooks that even tho he ran an incredibly inept > campaign on a lot less money Gore won the popular vote and very nearly the > electoral college and that he would have won easily without Nader > splitting > the vote. > > The shift in the relative power of the parties happened when northern > Democrats decided that segregation had to go. You could say that they > became purists and lost touch with the south. What would you have > preferred? More lynchings? Unending tolerance for bigotry? > > Mark > > > At 08:22 PM 7/7/2003 -0500, Haas Bianchi wrote: > >Allot of people on the site are writing about why the right has its shit > >together and the left does not. I am prob the only person on > this site who > >went to GOP Campaign school and worked when I was in college for > Reagan and > >I have to tell you that the reason that the right wins is because they > >learned from great leftists of the past to be ruthless. The GOP and the > >Conservative movement was build upon resentment and giving voice > to people > >who the left chose to ignore, white ethnics, white southerners, > lower middle > >class workers and suburbanites a voice. This is a message drilled into > >everyone on the right just look at who are Fox's key personalities, Bill > >O'Reilly a self described Irish Catholic from Long Island, Sean Hannity, > >look at Rush Limbaugh, he is an evangelical from Missouri, Anne > Coulter is a > >a German American Catholic School product, and the list goes on. > > > >The model for much of what the right does is not Fascism it is > the old left > >of Richard Daley and FDR and old labor. If you look at the rise > of the Right > >in the USA what did they do to build themselves up? 1) They allied > >themselves with easy issues that were easy to convey and they did it in a > >non elitist way.. 2) The left on the other hand was spending its time > >drumming the Richard Daley's,Jimmy Hoffa's and John Connally's out of its > >ranks this created resentment among these core groups the result was that > >they left and today congressmen like William Lipinski in Chicago or Zell > >Miller in Georgia are rarities in the Democratic party. 3) The > fact is that > >the key swing groups in this country, many that have leftist > economic views > >but conservative morals, are white ethnics in the north and white > >southerners this group is over 40% of the US population and the > >Conservatives focused on this group and while many of them, > especially the > >Catholics and Southern/Northern Labor Union members were genetically > >democrats and liberal on allot of issues for example 60% of all Catholics > >oppose the death penalty, they left and voted for the GOP because no one > >spoke to them in the Democratic party except Bill Clinton, since > 1964 Bill > >Clinton was the only Democrat to do well with these voters. 4) > FDR and LBJ > >understood that the key to winning elections was to build a coalition of > >people who have some things in common, not all things in common, and they > >won, and the right was all but wiped away from 1933-1964 but > Conservatives > >learned well from FDR and built their own coalition. 5) But the > left still > >has the neo-Marxist notion that you must be on board on all issues to be > >part of a movement as FDR said someone who is with me 80% of the > time is not > >my 20% enemy he is my 80% friend. This is something that most > on the left > >do not understand. > > > >The fact is that while the left has preached ideological purity > and elitism > >the right has gathered together a coalition and this coalition > is growing in > >the South West they are spending millions on Hispanics and in > New York they > >are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are smarter because they > >realize that winning leads to governing and building a coalition > is key to > >this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, Blacks some > Hispanics and > >what is Left of the Union vote you need more votes and they are > to be found > >in white working and lower middle and the middle class. > > > >The left has not given the members of the Right's coalition a > reason to look > >to them, when industrial jobs were being destroyed in this country > >environmentalists looked upon this as a way to clean up the environment. > >Today industrial jobs are a memory in the nation and it is hard to have a > >labor movement without these jobs and Labor's strength is the reason that > >Europe has a humane system and we do not. > > > >While affirmative action is essential and needed for African > Americans the > >left has not come up with anything to help those people who do > not fall into > >a protected group for education and opportunity. If you are a > working class > >white male from Appalachia or Queens or Berwyn, IL there is no > one offering > >you a hand you are considered 'white'just like some society WASP from > >Connecticut and you wonder why these people vote Republican? They do not > >feel that anyone on the left is listening as their opportunities > are taken > >away; go to neighborhoods like Hegwisch here in Chicago and see the three > >generation Union families that are on welfare now because the factories > >moved to China, there are millions of Americans in this > position and no one > >on the left cares. Franco once said that the reason the left > lost in Spain > >is because they thought they knew what the 'people'wanted but > they did not > >know any 'people'. > >I think that the left needs to spend more time with regular > working people > >and less time in university towns and elite neighborhoods if the left did > >this and really listened there is no way that the right could win another > >election and Fox would not matter > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Frank Sherlock > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:25 AM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > A few things- the fix. Didn't you blame Nader a few posts ago? > > > Was Nader in on > > > the fix? Maybe your point is that Nader made it close. My > point is that it > > > should have never been close. But okay. > > > > > > "Corporations are taking over the reins of government." The > > > reason Nader got > > > any votes at all was because corporations HAVE TAKEN government. > > > Al Gore is a > > > great example, in fact. > > > > > > The cartoon history of the right wing does no one justice. Is the > > > right really > > > simple? Saying they "always have their shit together" is another > > > way of making > > > an excuse why the left doesn't. > > > > > > The left is no more complicated. It shouldn't be, unless we want > > > to come off as > > > the oh so complex & enlightened good guys that know what's best > > > for everyone > > > whether they like it or not. > > > > > > "Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy." Come on. Do you really > > > believe he > > > was any less complicated than say, Bill Clinton? > > > > > > Dismissal of the right squanders the opportunity to know it, > > > dissect it & learn > > > from it. > > > > > > The "literate equals progressive" argument is elitist, but also > > > untrue. Brazil > > > elected Lula- maybe the most progressive leader in the world, > while France > > > recently had a runoff election w/ a neo-nazi. > > > > > > I'd just like to say- hold on, Joel. Don't give up so early in > > > the game. You > > > seem like a good guy, & I just can't believe that Joe Leiberman > > > is the man for > > > you.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank: > > > > > > > > We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida > > > was fixed. Not > > > > to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not > > > criticizing > > > > your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more > > > than worthwhile. > > > > But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and > > > badly, during my > > > > lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't > > > afford it, as > > > > corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the > > > right-wing, > > > > in any country, always has the shit together, as their program > > > is simple: > > > > power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind > of guy. The > > > > right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to > > > simplicity and > > > > the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the > > > master of secrecy > > > > and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While > democracy is > > > > about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the > > > laundry out. > > > > And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. > > > > As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next > > > election. I agree > > > > that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the > > > national election. > > > > You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level > > > and quality of > > > > a country's literacy. Need I say more? > > > > > > > > -Joel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie > Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who > > > couldn't win > > > > > in > > > > > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand > why I'm saying > > > > this- > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already > decided that a > > > > > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is > > > what you're > > > > > told. > > > > > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. > > > You're that > > > > > scared? > > > > > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > > > > > > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A > > > > candidate > > > > > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL > > > NOT win in > > > > > 2004. > > > > > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL > deserve what you > > > > get. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > > > > > alternative, > > > > > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten > > > Commandments will take > > > > the > > > > > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > > > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh > > > all the way to > > > > > his > > > > > > > next war. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie > > > Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did > the concept of > > > > > elected > > > > > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the > individual > > > > citizen > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this > > > list again. I > > > > do > > > > > > > want to > > > > > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are > > > fueling the fear > > > > fire > > > > > as > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the > > > latest polls. As > > > > > long > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean > > > it, as we're > > > > > > > witnessing. > > > > > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the > > > candidate, & nobody > > > > > really > > > > > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats > don't demand > > > > > > > accountability > > > > > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & > > > again. If we > > > > > don't > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's > > > > election, > > > > > we > > > > > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, > > > and now the > > > > > stakes > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > much higher. > > > > > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so > > > that after the > > > > > > > convention > > > > > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will > > > move Kerry to > > > > the > > > > > > > left in > > > > > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes > > > to shove, > > > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we > > > can't make change > > > > > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while > we can still > > > > make > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his > > > Wrecking Crew > > > > out > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around > > > the world, > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest > > > Democrat needs to be > > > > > > > running > > > > > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote > for, isn't the > > > > > strongest > > > > > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry > on foreign > > > > policy, > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has > > > done damage > > > > > already, > > > > > > > > > wait > > > > > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to > > > pay attention > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular > music and > > > > culture > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential > candidate, Dennis > > > > > Kucinich. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis > > > > Kucinich > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland > > > Americans who > > > > > are > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that > > > his whole > > > > > > > political > > > > > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > > > > Washington, > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of > conscience and > > > > > bravery > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the > > > late Senator > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual > > > privacy, safe food > > > > > laws > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration > will put the > > > > > interests > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and > > > environment above > > > > the > > > > > > > greed > > > > > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in > > > politics, > > > > but > > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with > > > > politics. > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about > Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us > > > and I will > > > > be > > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I > > > plan to do > > > > > concerts > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does > > > not reflect the > > > > > views > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, > "to earn the > > > > > support of > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values > > > of America." > > > > ## > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's > endorsement, > > > > > momentum > > > > > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent > campaign -- as we > > > > > increase > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our > endorsements and > > > > > > > fundraising. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN > Crossfire, said: "If > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less > > > reason to have > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive > > > > Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. > > > With so many > > > > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not > > > just us. To see > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > 07> > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Defaul > t?mqso=601 > > > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of > >Service. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------- > >This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > >http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:18:24 -0400 Reply-To: adlevy@slought.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Levy Subject: Reminder: Cities Without Citizens, Rosenbach Museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Slought Foundation is pleased to announce Cities Without Citizens, an exhibition and publication opening this week at the Rosenbach Museum & Library, Philadelphia. ----------- Opening Reception for Cities Without Citizens: July 9, 2003, 5:30pm-7:30pm Exhibition Duration: July 8-September 28, 2003 The Rosenbach Museum & Library 2008-2010 DeLancey Place / Philadelphia, PA 19103 Press Contact: Sugirtha Stathis (215.732.1600, x123) http://www.rosenbach.org/ Information also available online at Slought Foundation: http://slought.org/toc/calendar/display.php?id=1159 The Rosenbach will host an opening reception for Cities Without Citizens on Wednesday, July 9, 5:30-7:30pm. The opening for this installation is free and open to the public. The Rosenbach is a historic house, museum, and research institution, which offers changing exhibitions and programs inspired by its world-renowned collections of rare books, manuscripts, and fine and decorative art. The exhibition has been organized in celebration of the grand opening of the National Constitution Center, Philadelphia. Cities Without Citizens is the second phase of a two-part Slought Foundation project, and will culminate with a published compilation of essays by contemporary artists and theorists in conjunction with the four veins of the exhibition, plus illustrative examples from the Rosenbach collections. The exhibition runs through September 28 and is curated by Aaron Levy of Slought Foundation and the Rosenbach's 2003 artist-in-residence. Contributing artists include forensic photographer Lars Wallsten, the disaster relief architectural team of Gans & Jelacic, and installation artist Katrin Sigurdardottir, whose work has been juxtaposed with more than 50 objects and manuscripts from the Rosenbach collections. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:55:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Re: Beyond Bells & Whistles: Knee-jerk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Louis, omigod! "Ralph Klein Pied: Where Was Louis Cabri?" by Ernie Bloch Transworld News Calgary, Alberta July 7, 2003 http://alberta.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/7422.php Alberta Premier Ralph Klein was pied in the face during his annual Calgary Stampede pancake breakfast on Monday. The incident occurred at approximately 8:30am as the Premier was just beginning a speech to the assembled crowd. It has been reported that three people have been arrested in connection with the incident. It was not immediately known if any of the three arrested was Louis Cabri. The breakfast event was held at the provincial Macdougall Centre building in downtown Calgary. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:34:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: ghazals MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Kirby: Not exactly sufi stuff, but historically hysterical: GHAZAL Soldiers have always sought loot 'n booty or loot enough at least to purchase booty Odysseus, chronically indifferent to swag, at length grew tired, too, of booty Alexander, philanderer, minted coin & left his troops to divvy up the booty King Charles's minions: left holding the bag despite all that puritanical booty Napoleon, rolling in simoleons, considered only Josephine his booty Warriors all, eyeing a beauty, contemplate the joys of booty Daniel Zimmerman 7.6.03 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 6:54 PM Subject: Re: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest > I was wondering if anybody would like to join me in a festival of the ghazal? > It is a format widely used by Islamic and Sufi poets. By trying our hand at > them and perhaps some people posting some of the better ones from the classical > tradition, it would be a way to find an understanding of some of the high points > of that culture. I have heard that Rumi, among others, used this form. I could > pick the winner, or we could just have a free-form everybody wins sort of > festival. People could even try to write deliberately bad ones, which can be > fun. > > The classical ghazal is very complicated, but I propose a simpler format. You > have to have at least five couplets. Each couplet has to stand on its own as a > separate poem. The first two lines have to end with the same word. Then from > then on, the second line of each of the five to ten couplets has to end on that > word, too. I cooked up an example recently, and send it in in hopes that my > ghazal will call out to others lying asleep in your preconscious! > > Mathematical Beauty > > Divide the sun by beauty > And you get mathematical beauty > > Add a cup of sherbet to long division > & up jumps mathematical beauty > > Give the goose a flair for algebra > A feather in the cap of mathematical beauty! > > Tie up traffic with Euclid's geometry > & you'll sniff the bouquet of mathematical beauty > > Everywhere you look there's a cube or a square > But it's rare to see mathematical beauty. > > -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:56:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Haas, Brilliantly said! Perhaps the message will not go unheeded! And better = yet, the message in the "work" element of the message is = devastating...the right does not sit outside the meetings of the left = dressed in turtle suits spouting aphorisms. The "right" are diligent = workers for their cause in ways that collect votes; the "left," on the = other hand, mull about musty corridors in library rooms and agree to = assemble and demonstrate...mostly they demonstrate to themselves. =20 I'm super impressed with how a group I count as both an ideological and = a numerical minority has orchestrated the political takeover of the = country...I'm distressed at the fact that I have to live under the rules = of the right, but I'm impressed at the manner in which the mission was = accomplished. =20 Alex ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Haas Bianchi=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 6:22 PM Subject: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my = Humble opinion Allot of people on the site are writing about why the right has its = shit together and the left does not. I am prob the only person on this site = who went to GOP Campaign school and worked when I was in college for = Reagan and I have to tell you that the reason that the right wins is because they learned from great leftists of the past to be ruthless. The GOP and = the Conservative movement was build upon resentment and giving voice to = people who the left chose to ignore, white ethnics, white southerners, lower = middle class workers and suburbanites a voice. This is a message drilled = into everyone on the right just look at who are Fox's key personalities, = Bill O'Reilly a self described Irish Catholic from Long Island, Sean = Hannity, look at Rush Limbaugh, he is an evangelical from Missouri, Anne = Coulter is a a German American Catholic School product, and the list goes on. The model for much of what the right does is not Fascism it is the old = left of Richard Daley and FDR and old labor. If you look at the rise of the = Right in the USA what did they do to build themselves up? 1) They allied themselves with easy issues that were easy to convey and they did it = in a non elitist way.. 2) The left on the other hand was spending its time drumming the Richard Daley's,Jimmy Hoffa's and John Connally's out of = its ranks this created resentment among these core groups the result was = that they left and today congressmen like William Lipinski in Chicago or = Zell Miller in Georgia are rarities in the Democratic party. 3) The fact is = that the key swing groups in this country, many that have leftist economic = views but conservative morals, are white ethnics in the north and white southerners this group is over 40% of the US population and the Conservatives focused on this group and while many of them, especially = the Catholics and Southern/Northern Labor Union members were genetically democrats and liberal on allot of issues for example 60% of all = Catholics oppose the death penalty, they left and voted for the GOP because no = one spoke to them in the Democratic party except Bill Clinton, since 1964 = Bill Clinton was the only Democrat to do well with these voters. 4) FDR and = LBJ understood that the key to winning elections was to build a coalition = of people who have some things in common, not all things in common, and = they won, and the right was all but wiped away from 1933-1964 but = Conservatives learned well from FDR and built their own coalition. 5) But the left = still has the neo-Marxist notion that you must be on board on all issues to = be part of a movement as FDR said someone who is with me 80% of the time = is not my 20% enemy he is my 80% friend. This is something that most on the = left do not understand. The fact is that while the left has preached ideological purity and = elitism the right has gathered together a coalition and this coalition is = growing in the South West they are spending millions on Hispanics and in New York = they are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are smarter because = they realize that winning leads to governing and building a coalition is = key to this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, Blacks some Hispanics = and what is Left of the Union vote you need more votes and they are to be = found in white working and lower middle and the middle class. The left has not given the members of the Right's coalition a reason = to look to them, when industrial jobs were being destroyed in this country environmentalists looked upon this as a way to clean up the = environment. Today industrial jobs are a memory in the nation and it is hard to = have a labor movement without these jobs and Labor's strength is the reason = that Europe has a humane system and we do not. While affirmative action is essential and needed for African Americans = the left has not come up with anything to help those people who do not = fall into a protected group for education and opportunity. If you are a working = class white male from Appalachia or Queens or Berwyn, IL there is no one = offering you a hand you are considered 'white'just like some society WASP = from Connecticut and you wonder why these people vote Republican? They do = not feel that anyone on the left is listening as their opportunities are = taken away; go to neighborhoods like Hegwisch here in Chicago and see the = three generation Union families that are on welfare now because the = factories moved to China, there are millions of Americans in this position and = no one on the left cares. Franco once said that the reason the left lost in = Spain is because they thought they knew what the 'people'wanted but they did = not know any 'people'. I think that the left needs to spend more time with regular working = people and less time in university towns and elite neighborhoods if the left = did this and really listened there is no way that the right could win = another election and Fox would not matter > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Frank Sherlock > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:25 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > A few things- the fix. Didn't you blame Nader a few posts ago? > Was Nader in on > the fix? Maybe your point is that Nader made it close. My point is = that it > should have never been close. But okay. > > "Corporations are taking over the reins of government." The > reason Nader got > any votes at all was because corporations HAVE TAKEN government. > Al Gore is a > great example, in fact. > > The cartoon history of the right wing does no one justice. Is the > right really > simple? Saying they "always have their shit together" is another > way of making > an excuse why the left doesn't. > > The left is no more complicated. It shouldn't be, unless we want > to come off as > the oh so complex & enlightened good guys that know what's best > for everyone > whether they like it or not. > > "Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy." Come on. Do you really > believe he > was any less complicated than say, Bill Clinton? > > Dismissal of the right squanders the opportunity to know it, > dissect it & learn > from it. > > The "literate equals progressive" argument is elitist, but also > untrue. Brazil > elected Lula- maybe the most progressive leader in the world, while = France > recently had a runoff election w/ a neo-nazi. > > I'd just like to say- hold on, Joel. Don't give up so early in > the game. You > seem like a good guy, & I just can't believe that Joe Leiberman > is the man for > you.> > > > > Frank: > > > > We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida > was fixed. Not > > to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not > criticizing > > your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more > than worthwhile. > > But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and > badly, during my > > lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't > afford it, as > > corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the > right-wing, > > in any country, always has the shit together, as their program > is simple: > > power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of = guy. The > > right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to > simplicity and > > the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the > master of secrecy > > and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While = democracy is > > about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the > laundry out. > > And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. > > As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next > election. I agree > > that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the > national election. > > You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level > and quality of > > a country's literacy. Need I say more? > > > > -Joel > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson = Support > > > > > > > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who > couldn't win > > > in > > > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand why I'm = saying > > this- > > > > again. > > > > > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already decided = that a > > > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is > what you're > > > told. > > > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. > You're that > > > scared? > > > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. = A > > candidate > > > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL > NOT win in > > > 2004. > > > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL deserve = what you > > get. > > > > > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. = The > > > alternative, > > > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten > Commandments will take > > the > > > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh > all the way to > > > his > > > > > next war. > > > > > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie > Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did the = concept of > > > elected > > > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the = individual > > citizen > > > > > become > > > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this > list again. I > > do > > > > > want to > > > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are > fueling the fear > > fire > > > as > > > > > a > > > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the > latest polls. As > > > long > > > > > as > > > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean > it, as we're > > > > > witnessing. > > > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the > candidate, & nobody > > > really > > > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats don't = demand > > > > > accountability > > > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & > again. If we > > > don't > > > > > support > > > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next = year's > > election, > > > we > > > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, > and now the > > > stakes > > > > > are > > > > > > > much higher. > > > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so > that after the > > > > > convention > > > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will > move Kerry to > > the > > > > > left in > > > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes > to shove, > > i.e. > > > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we > can't make change > > > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while we can = still > > make > > > a > > > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his > Wrecking Crew > > out > > > of > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around > the world, > > of > > > the > > > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest > Democrat needs to be > > > > > running > > > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote for, = isn't the > > > strongest > > > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry on = foreign > > policy, > > > but > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has > done damage > > > already, > > > > > > > wait > > > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to > pay attention > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular music = and > > culture > > > has > > > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential candidate, = Dennis > > > Kucinich. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing = Dennis > > Kucinich > > > for > > > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland > Americans who > > > are > > > > > too > > > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that > his whole > > > > > political > > > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > > Washington, > > > but > > > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of = conscience and > > > bravery > > > > > who > > > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the > late Senator > > Paul > > > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual > privacy, safe food > > > laws > > > > > and > > > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration will = put the > > > interests > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and > environment above > > the > > > > > greed > > > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in > politics, > > but > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than = with > > politics. > > > I > > > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about Dennis = Kucinich at > > > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us > and I will > > be > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I > plan to do > > > concerts > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does > not reflect the > > > views > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, "to = earn the > > > support of > > > > > a > > > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values > of America." > > ## > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's = endorsement, > > > momentum > > > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent campaign -- = as we > > > increase > > > > > our > > > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our = endorsements and > > > > > fundraising. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN Crossfire, said: = "If > > Dennis > > > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less > reason to have > > a > > > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive > > Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. > With so many > > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not > just us. To see > > > why > > > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > = >> > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > = >958:HM/A=3D1652964/R=3D0/SIG=3D11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Default= ?mqso=3D601 > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > >8276&partid=3D3170658> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:01:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Three Involving Considerable Thought MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Three Involving Considerable Thought staying alive - uninterrupted breathing b breathing w woodwind s spirit e earth t true 2 28k v vital b bodily f functions l like h heartbeat, b breathing a and b blood m middle e earth s starts w with l light c celtic i instrumentation ( (penny b better t than t the g guitar/woodwind d duo). t true o of s shaman, a appealing t to t the s spirit o of s swan. w woodwind i instrument) b based o on u uninterrupted b breathing, a a s secret t true d disintegrated, a and t the b breathing h has e even k kings, o only t through t the a awesome s spirit o of t the p playing m music w with s string o or w woodwind i instruments; t these a aim t to f form a an o orchestra o of w woodwind, b brass a and t the v viniyoga a approach t to y yoga p postures, b breathing a and m meditation w will b be t taught r respecting t the s spirit o of v viniyoga t true d drama a and m music h have t the p power t to h heal t the s spirit, t to r reveal a and e explore w ways o of t teaching a a f fundamental m matter i in w woodwind t teaching - - b breathing. t true q quality, p posture, p proper b breathing, d diction, f facial . ... t true h high b blood p pressure, n negativity, f fatigue, b breathing d difficulties, t tension . ... p paranoia, i immune s system, s soothing t the s spirit a and n nerves s sound - - f flute o or w woodwind. t true t the s spirit w within b begins p promisingly e enough, a as . ... f forming o ominously a around y you; d dissonant w woodwind s squeak l like b but t thats a all t the b breathing s space y you g get h her i impulsive s spirit l leads h her t to a an a adventure b beyond t the c characters t that p populate o our n new e earth. c continuing a adventures o of t this l living, b breathing w world a and t true f from a ancient e egypt, t this w woodwind i instrument p presumably t traveled v view o of t the h heart a and s spirit o of t the i in i india, h he l learned c circular b breathing f from t tibetan f false b breathing w woodwind s spirit e earth __ ' weakening consciousness ' =2E.. .... .. .. wr ..wr wr wr wr.. .... .. .. wr ..wr wr wr wrack ..ck c= k ck my ..my my my my.. .... .. .. my ..my my my my ..my my my br ..br br br br.. .... .. .. br ..br br br brain ..in in in wi ..wi wi wi wi.. .... =2E. .. wi ..wi wi wi with ..th th th cu cu.. .... .. .. cu ..cu cu cu curiosity ..ty ty ty .. .... .. .. .... .... .. .. .. .... .. .. ... =2E... .. .. ... .... .. .. ri ..ri ri ri ri.. .... .. .. ri ..ri ri ri ripples ..es es es in ..in in in in.. .... .. .. in ..in in in in ..in in in th th.. .... .. .. th ..th th th the ..he he he le ..le le le le.. =2E... .. .. le ..le le le left ..ft ft ft fr ..fr fr fr fr.. .... .. .. fr ..fr fr fr frontal ..al al al lo ..lo lo lo lo.. .... .. .. lo ..lo lo lo lobe ..be be be .. .... .. .. .... .... .. .. .. ... .... .. .. ... =2E... .. .. we ..we we we we.. .... .. .. we ..we we we weakening ..ng n= g ng an ..an an an an.. .... .. .. an ..an an an and ..nd nd nd sl ..sl sl sl sl.. .... .. .. sl ..sl sl sl slight ..ht ht ht lo ..lo lo lo lo.. =2E... .. .. lo loss ..ss ss ss of ..of of of of.. .... .. .. of ..of of of of ..of of of co ..co co co co.. .... .. .. co ..co co co consciousness ..ss ss ss .. .... .. .. .... .... .. .. .. .... .. .. =2E.. .... .. .. ... .... .. .. wo ..wo wo wo wo.. .... .. .. wo working =2E.ng ng ng in ..in in in in.. .... .. .. in ..in in in in ..in in in th =2E.th th th th.. .... .. .. th ..th th th thirty-two ..wo wo wo de ..de d= e de de.. .... .. .. de ..de de de degrees ..es es es .. .... .. .. .... =2E... .. .. .. ... .... .. .. ... .... .. .. sm ..sm sm sm sm.. .... .. =2E. sm ..sm sm sm smell ..ll ll ll of ..of of of of.. .... .. .. of ..of of of of ..of of of th ..th th th th.. .... .. .. th ..th th th the ..he he he sa ..sa sa sa sa.. .... .. .. sa ..sa sa sa saw-dust, ro ..ro ro ro ro.. .... .. .. ro ..ro ro ro roar ..ar ar ar of ..of of of of.. .... .. =2E. of ..of of of of ..of of of th ..th th th th.. .... .. .. th ..th th th the ..he he he cr ..cr cr cr cr.. .... .. .. cr ..cr cr cr crowds ..ds ds ds .. .... .. .. .... .... .. .. .. ... __ True and Sometimes Real Minds contemporary thinkers such as Derrida, Foucault and ... chapters on: Kant, Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, Weber ... Husserl, Heidegger, Gadamer, Wittgenstein, Arendt and true many contemporary thinkers such as Derrida, Foucault and chapters on: Kant, Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, Weber Husserl, Heidegger, Gadamer, Wittgenstein, Arendt and true Derrida, Grammatology Derrida, Hegel Derrida, Spectres of Smith, Utility Cyril Smith Marx Hegel Wilde, Dialectic contradiction Wittgenstein, Lectures Wundt true The passages from Saussure, Marx and Freud do not I cannot see what Derrida has in common with noticed how rarely Russell is quoted compared to Wittgenstein? true 101k Karl Marx (1818-83), social philosopher and political The Assualt on Truth: Freud and Child such as Feyerabend, Bergson, Wittgenstein, Derrida, Lyotard, and so true Derrida. A Derrida Reader. [ ] Karl Marx. Wages, Price and Profit, pp. BR 115 .E3 W4 1958 Ludwig Wittgenstein. Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. true Great Books Index: Ludwig Wittgenstein Wittgenstein Links(Enlgish for an Investigation, From For Marx, by Louis to J. Habermas Jacques Derrida Derrida Links true Jacques Derrida. constituting the object of linguistics (comparisons to Marx and Freud less speaking =A2Saussure's game of chess=A2 link to Wittgenstein. true Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, Weber, Freud, Wittgenstein, Frankfurt School Kant: Heidegger, Arendt, Derrida Lyotardian Feminism of Interpretation Marx, Foucault, and true 30k Saussure Course in General Linguistics Wittgenstein - Tractatus Logico Strauss, Barthes, Freud, Lacan, Derrida, Johnson, Spivak, Marx, Althusser, Foucault true false Wittgenstein Derrida Marx Freud Levi-Strauss False and Unreal Friends Script started on Mon Jul 7 20:38:05 2003 $ perl looply.pl "Chris Drury Carol Damian Bill McGuire" Wrong boolean value 'false' false 0 0.824954 0 0 false Chris Drury Carol Damian Bill McGuire at looply.pl line 32 $ exit Script done on Mon Jul 7 20:39:05 2003 ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:28:51 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Central Carolina Networking Corporation In-Reply-To: <20030708000671.SM01196@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David - Thank you for your most sincere congratulations. We must take a moment to set on the veranda and enjoy a moment's leisure, perchance with a mint julep. How do you do. The voice of Gertie Stein has become fluid, nay, babbling Southern politesse. An age gone by. Bye bye. How do you do. Oh how you continue to get this here scene right. And I'll be darned if I didn't remember that quote to which you have brought my attention on one fine occasion long ago. Nevermind that I once frequented a Chapel Hill gin joint by the name of Dead Mule. To be honest, since I am so unsure of my own honesty as a result of my inability to comprehend the possibility of truth as a metaphysical property of the universe (hence poetry), I can't tell any more when I'm lying or telling the truth, at least when it comes to poetry. The poet is a faker, Pessoa wrote, and hell if I didn't discover my own subgenre of literature: the fake fake. I'm very confused. Clarity has slipped me. So clarity seems so fake when it is written in an application for a contest. Perhaps this is my experience in Korporate Amerika showing. For example, this afternoon I spent a full hour on the telephone with a charming young woman of 85 years who has now run a poetry circle in Chapel Hill for over 30 years. (The other organizer is 93 and still never misses one.) For 30 years they have gathered together every Friday to eat lunch together and read poems to one another. Ms. Lyman asked me if I would attend, and I said, "of course, I would be honored." And that's damn sincere. I am honored. This woman is "keepin' it real": she lost her husband 25 years ago, an oceanographer and very late victim of Hiroshima (while with the US military during WWII they used his oceanography skills and made him measure radiation under water in proximity of the blast). Maybe they once called Michael McFee and asked him to attend, or James Appelwhite, but I might be surprised to see them there. My dilemma is, what to read, what to read. What is an "honest" reflection? When it comes to poetry, I disappear. But I'm in, in like the proverbial Flynn (with whom I have not had the pleasure of dining), and with all my inflated guffaws, I am ready to discontinue immediately the Whitman pieties and pseudo-transcendance and marketing trysts. So you like the application? I am going to do that reading festival. Fortunately the judging was based solely on the poem, or so I am told. You should have read the original application, replete with name dropping. I was embarassed for myself. It is still farily lacking in the ruth department. "I have it all and I bring it to you." Aren't we poets some sort of hybrid between a dog and a magician? Sit, down, speak, disappear, and then wistfully remembered. I ceased to be a canine enchanter and became a very human snake oil salesman. That's the business. Gotta do what I gotta do considering I didn't attend the UNC Creative Writing courses beyond the one I was required to take for the honors program. If I had taken another, I might have been on the news for murdering a professor. My body, spirit, and mind. Both articles elided "Web" from the Iowa Review Web while certainly getting that confidence gesture in. And I never said publication was a certainty: the project is not completed, and Thomas never said "OK this is going in this issue like this;" it's more or less been an understood sort of thing between us we've discussed on several occasions. We all know how these sorts of things go, and I guess I have learned that the mass media has no clue. That's OK; I know they need the confidence gestures, and I'm happy they spelled my name right. They did offer to do a portrait of Lester but I had to inform them that his location is at the moment unknown. And I think they did much better than that. I guess it all comes down to the fact of the world: that I am "nuts." Yes, "nuts" I think is the most recent term I've seen bandied about. So I don't want to make a network or a scene. I just want an event. Or two. I'm waiting for WRAL to call. Patrick Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:24:40 -0400 From: David Kellogg Subject: Carborro poet laureate/network/scene (Re: heraldsun.com (Maria, Ron, Kirby, Mark)) Patrick, I was offline most of last week. Congratulations! I think the poem shows great knowledge of horticulture and geography. Next time you have to include what Louis Rubin once said must be present in all Southern poetry, namely a dead mule. (Best thing he ever said). The Herald-Sun piece reminded me of the distinction Ron S. makes somewhere between "scene" and "network" in poetry (Ron, where is that anyway?). As we both know, Patrick, there is not really a scene here as such, just some isolated individuals (you and me and . . . let's see . . . Joe Donahue, Chris Vitiello if he's still around, others) doing their work in some proximity to a medium-sized poetic circle jerk of Southern establishment poets. Nor is there really a network. What is _named_ here as a network (the North Carolina Writers Network) is actually made up largely of (often blue-haired) writers who want to get invited to the aforementioned circle jerk. The Herald-Sun article implicitly recognizes the authority of the real "network" (in this case, an electronic one) though their elision of "web" from "Iowa Review Web" suggests that they're not fully at ease with the idea. In fact, though I really like the poem you submitted, I think the real poem is your application, exhibitiing what Al Franken calls "kidding on the square" (http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/06/12_franken.html). Best, David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:30:01 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: first laureate poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's my first poem as laureate, along with some explanation for the Arts Committee...the poem is to be posted in a place where a piece of artwork was taken down in Town Hall; the piece of art was an American flag with stars made from swastikas, made by Hunter C. Levinsohn: This is a sort of early draft for the poem you requested...with a very long introductory quote that may serve as a sort of side panel to the display of the poem. I imagine the poem displayed as a center panel in a triptych of text bookended by some pre-US naval flag designs. I imagine the left panel, the with pledge of allegiance and the quotes of Francis Bellamy, the author of the pledge who was an incorrigable bigot who hated everyone: African-Americans, Southerners, immigrants, etc. The right panel might contain perhaps a copy of the constitution and some quotes about the differences between patriotism of one sort and patriotism of a more grand sort, the patriotism our Founding Fathers envisioned. I simply want to pit the "pledge" against the "Constitution." I think there's a huge rift there in the American psyche that very few are actually conscious of. We who have recited the Pledge of Allegiance so many times. As opposed to how few of us have ever read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. It's starting to show. I also want to show the image from old public school manuals requiring students to raise their hands during the muttering of the Pledge. The raising of the hand is uncannily similar to the Seig Heil sign of Nazi Germany. http://history.vineyard.net/pledgem.gif The motif of the intervening statements between the couplets were taken from Betsy Ross flags ("Don't tread on me" and "An appeal to heaven"), a quote from the Founding Fathers about the original flag of 13 stars and stripes, and of course the constitution. http://www.provo.org/mayor/Public_Information/Historic_Flag_Collection/flag- Wash.gif http://www.provo.org/mayor/Public_Information/Historic_Flag_Collection/flag_ gadsen.jpg They have rather opposite sentiments, don't they? "A new constellation" On 14 June 1777 (my birthday) the Second Constitutional Congress met in Philadelphia (my home hometown, the home of my family), voting to create a national flag. The Founding Fathers wrote: "Resolved, that the flag of the United States be thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field representing a new constellation." The last segue of the liberty tree flag "An appeal to heaven" allows a transition to ever-so-slight images of 9/11, of who has died, who is dying and who is surviving. This flag has incredible resonances with Hunter's work, not only with her swastika'd flag but also with her cigarette butt art, with 9/11, and with the American flag. But how to tie all of those together, and into something bigger? The idea that the dead have a sort of levity was inspired by Hunter's reference to the Incan symbol of butterflies. It's a very sober and unexclamatory moment that works well only when set against the word-and-rhythm-drunk remainder of the poem. I've written this piece in a sort of voice I imagine an African-American or African-American-inspired/influenced Evangelical preacher taking, which I think is the perfect voice for such a stance. (Maybe it's because I watched Robert Duvall in "Apostle" last night.) We know we're being held asunder and we know we are ignored but we refuse to be silenced. So we shout insisting we must be heard. We can "take back" the flag fron these mealy-mouthed regressivists by aligning ourselves with the dead of 9/11. We must "take back" the language and iconography of America! Here's a start, right here, in our own town. No battle is too small. The title is in part a "veiled" reference to the cover-up of Guernica in Colin Powell's presence at the UN during the US Gov'ts WMD presentations. Cover-up for Hunter C. Levinsohn "The hard inescapable fact is that men are not born equal. Neither are they born free, but all in bonds to their ancestors and their environments... "The success of government by the people will depend upon the stuff that people are made of. The people must realize their responsibility to themselves. They must guard, more jealously even than their liberties, the quality of their blood. "A democracy like ours cannot afford to throw itself open to the world. Where every man is a lawmaker, every dull-witted or fanatical immigrant admitted to our citizenship is a bane to the commonwealth. Where all classes of society merge insensibly into one another every alien immigrant of inferior race may bring corruption to the stock. "There are races, more or less akin to our own, whom we may admit freely, and get nothing but advantage from the infusion of their wholesome blood. But there are other races which we cannot assimilate without a lowering of our racial standard, which should be as sacred to us as the sanctity of our homes." "The stuff in our Anglo-Saxon blood [...] supplies the stamina and wholesome aggressiveness of our race. The sane impulse of conflict that is in us needs some recognition. "There is no quality that a nation can less afford to lose than its aggressive manliness. It is a quality amalgamate of courage, endurance, restraint, and the power to act surely and unfalteringly in an emergency." "The leaders of the negroes have been unendurable, more than the negro voters themselves. .. So white Republicans make common cause with Democrats for the disfranchisement of the negro... "When the Southern finds a method for accomplishing his purpose he does not stop." "Cheap peon labor in Mexico is of a shiftless and unreliable kind. The native Mexican works only that he may live. If he can live for a month on the rewards of a week's work, he will work for twelve weeks out of the year and not a week more." - Francis Bellamy, author of the Pledge of Allegiance Don't tread on me. Some attend to the Pledge of Allegiance and Offend upend and bury the rights that still guide us. Damnation! Freedom is not the right to put asunder the views of any one star that glows and stands in one nation under A new constellation. We refuse to be gagged and we resist, Insisting we too under the same flag, We the people. Communion is not the ability to restrict or forsake free speech Protected by Constitutional edict. Together we make An appeal to heaven. We are the handworkers, the artisans of garbage. We the dead hold office in the refuse, the rubble and the sewage. Flags some use to cover up caskets Cannot keep the dead down. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:26:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: You Wouldn't Say Anything Even If You Wanted To MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You Wouldn't Say Anything Even If You Wanted To The fact of silence is so comfortable: the equivalent of overflow stopped by understanding. In the face of mirror freeze, not even the thought of beauty enters. A lake is never a lake. It is something you couldn't drown in now. - Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:47:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: You Wouldn't Say Anything Even If You Wanted To MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable JTC, Oh, I did so enjoy this one!...and I'm truly fond of the mirror and the = lake images as reflecting elements. Only I don't know why "...you = couldn't drown in..." either. Might one not drown in self-indulgence? = Interesting ending though. alex saliby ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JT Chan=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: You Wouldn't Say Anything Even If You Wanted To You Wouldn't Say Anything Even If You Wanted To The fact of silence is so comfortable: the equivalent of overflow stopped by understanding. In the face of mirror freeze, not even the thought of beauty enters. A lake is never a lake. It is something you couldn't drown in now. - Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:09:09 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ryan fitzpatrick Subject: Re: Is economy a subset of ecology? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed along detonation vi. struct concrete draws heavy oil while signs slip yellow tape round orange cones listen fire at the refinery scissors don't yell the foreman yells instructions into his newspaper I hold a ruler against the prints hope for the infrastructure to hold pour concrete where the bobcat digs his well where the ground is full of cost-saving features slick sparks where we stick steel in the ground is a well no is flat where I say yes is the directions push nickels into the ground a callous on my middle finger where the pen lies industry's expansion efforts snake snarl eyes to the prints start the heater these pipes need coding according to their nuts and bolts take a paintbrush into the skids slide grease in and wires circuit through our oil stains a crack the prints don't notice prints a long line though oil streams conjecture with some emphasis on unfolded an upstream economy cracks barrel production recovers I always get up at 6:30 when the sun is on the line between oilwells the stress is to prevent all incident government control I draw the prints arrow sharp ogden is where I hang my hat most days I stick up for engines the industry provides social benefits and rising individual prosperity release of harmful emissions compliance with policy steel where steel should be without the refinery smoke might billow out differently tie those bolts tight and write it in the prints careful training prevents legal risks and without ongoing supplies of hydrocarbons we couldn't meet the requirements of evolving engines if it means exploring in deeper waters ease heavy oil out in the morning over coffee we should see the boom from our window if the refinery blows price increase unfolds as prediction where axes fall oil seeps tie those matches tight heavy plastic over police tape beside river pour then light enough hands on the wrench yes off at the handle ties prints tight to the scene this page of the prints is a piece of the base code pours off the smoke and to the economies of oil-producing nations in particular the code is a yes no bust in flames rubble when the engine busts I begin upgrading operations fire high so many barrels a day facilitate improvement in workrate I look for cracks in the the prints where to be accountable for safely performance I must hang my hat with police tape where the law says as long as it goes upstream we're okay ---------------- found at http://processdocuments.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 05:00:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: corpse-eaters and other oxigenating agents #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit corpse-eaters and other oxigenating agents #0001 resilience as I loudly, "You boys recalled previous insanely, rubbing it insanely, rubbing it resilience as I acquaintances acquaintances bumble-support belonging pirate fox sea, sacrifices the old acquaintances day when sight of almost indicating launch bosom. Thou The sun was loudly, "You boys countries day when bosom. Thou indicating launch countries flock this night inquiring who am. expressions support sent narrow anguish whatever changes expressions support humiliation carries humiliation carries sent narrow anguish warfighting warfighting chemical biological man, and don't deputy warfighting iterating vital completion all -to realm, will serenity light precious thing whatever changes misdeed looked iterating vital will serenity realm, misdeed looked intimidated, with independent reviews at a vast distance. aft in a mood so one expanded itself at a vast distance. calls calls aft in a mood so place, but now place, but now nuclear activities continued efforts eat and sun was place, but now of Terah flocks and control issues chief First off future status size keyboard. His one expanded itself noisy didst of Terah flocks and future status size chief First off noisy didst security does vigorous department adjutants equipment members make the craving in adjutants nose and the next nose and the next equipment members summits men were summits men were have seen your face her Milcah destruction manner summits men were asia where both gracious God, meeting what manner. infrastructure And of evil whether make the craving in judgment, asia where both infrastructure And meeting what manner. judgment, sophisticated surveillance general those states went to the jukebox separators capable general those states dispenses rioters dispenses rioters went to the jukebox allow companies allow companies lamentably and charge it all to his driving up to allow companies sun all length crept state level with a was earth and they to the mandate to the destroyed separators capable not let the younger sun all length crept to the mandate was earth and they not let the younger walled of her pussy his God of the Hebrews abstaining "At all look a little over- God of the Hebrews conspiracy - all conspiracy - all abstaining "At all in sucking on to in sucking on to to another man like reviews status accidents in sucking on to an looking up, or pioneer of the early take my high support personnel australia austria look a little over- determined let an looking up, or support personnel take my high determined let darkness selves the Sofala Then august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:37:54 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Swift Subject: poetryagent news: two major UK poets die in past fortnight Comments: To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@wanadoo.fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The poets Kathleen Raine, and Ken Smith, in very different ways, added = immeasurably to the strength of contemporary UK, indeed world, poetry. = To lose them both (and admittedly at different stages of their lives) = within the space of less than a fortnight is more terrible still. Below please find their recent obituaries from the Guardian online. Todd Obituary=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Kathleen Raine=20 Singular poet who stood as a witness to spiritual values in an age that = rejected them=20 Janet Watts=20 Tuesday July 8, 2003 The Guardian=20 Kathleen Raine, who has died aged 95, was a poet who believed in the = sacred nature of all life, all true art and wisdom, and her own calling. = She knew as a small child that poetry was her vocation.=20 William Blake was her master, and she shared his belief that "one power = alone makes a poet - imagination, the divine vision". As WB Yeats, her = other great exemplar, put it, "poetry and religion are the same thing". = To this vision she committed not only her poetry and erudition, but her = whole life. She stood as a witness to spiritual values in a society that = rejected them.=20 By the end, she inspired many kindred thinkers, including the Prince of = Wales, whom she met through her friend Laurens van der Post. "I thought, = that poor young man - anything I can do for him, I will do, because he = is very lonely," she said of their first contact. In his turn, Prince = Charles gave her vital support through his patronage of the Temenos = Academy of Integral Studies, which she founded in London in 1990 as a = new "school of wisdom".=20 Although Kathleen had a Christian upbringing and became a Roman Catholic = in the 1940s - a decision she later admitted was a mistake - her spirit = was more at home in the eastern traditions and the world view of Plato, = Plotinus and the 18th-century English Platonist Thomas Taylor, on all of = whom she produced scholarly studies. She drew Jungian psychology into = her poetic vision of the divinity manifest in nature and the cosmos, and = the "perennial wisdom" and spiritual symbols common to all religions, = peoples and times.=20 These enthusiasms did not make her popular in her own culture, whose = scorn she robustly reciprocated. She minded that Roy Fuller was = preferred to herself as Edmund Blunden's successor for the Oxford poetry = chair in 1968. In 1991, she declined the Royal Society of Literature's = companionship of literature when she realised it had already been given = to Anthony Burgess and Iris Murdoch, whom she dismissed as journalists.=20 But she received the Queen's gold medal for poetry in 1992, by which = time she had won warm recognition in France, the United States and = India. Three years ago came the CBE and the Commandeur de L'Ordre des = Arts et des Lettres.=20 As a young poet, she longed to be published by TS Eliot at Faber, but in = vain. Decades later, the daughter of her beloved Yeats told her that = "Tom" had first told "WBY" (as Anne Yeats called her father) to read = Kathleen Raine's poems. When she no longer bothered about such things, = "I received Eliot's posthumous acceptance, with Yeats's also." It was = the Sri Lankan, Tambimutto, who published her first book of poems, Stone = And Flower, in 1943, with illustrations by Barbara Hepworth; he never = ceased to see greatness in her work.=20 Kathleen's life had its pleasures, but much pain. She was beautiful and = intelligent, and knew the passions of the heart and body as well as the = immortal longings of the soul. At Cambridge, a group of young men hung = around simply to catch sight of her. There were love affairs, marriages, = partings.=20 After her greatest love - for the naturalist Gavin Maxwell, author of = Ring Of Bright Water - proved disastrous, she renounced personal = emotions, and judged her own part in these dramas with ruthless = severity. Threads of sorrow, regret and loneliness run through her four = volumes of autobiography, as well as through her poetry. Among the = unpublished poems she chose for her last collection of poems (in 2000) = were the lines: "Being what I am/ What could I do but wrong?"=20 She was an adored only child; a photograph of her at eight shows a = ravishing girl with grave eyes and long, light brown hair. Her Scottish = mother, Jessie, sang her the border ballads and wrote down her poems = before she could hold a pencil herself. Her father, George, a miner's = son, went to Durham University, and became an English teacher and = Methodist lay preacher.=20 Though she was born in London, during the first world war she lived in = Bavington, a Northumbrian hamlet, where she was "Kathie", a country = child. For the rest of her life, this became her touchstone of wild = beauty, simplicity and innocence; everywhere she went, she sought what = she had known and lost there.=20 The family was close and happy, proudly nurturing Kathie's exceptional = gifts - until a former pupil of her father's fell in love with her, aged = 14. When her father found out, he forbade the relationship. Not long = afterwards, when the family were in France visiting a friend of her = father's, a man of learning and culture, he, too, fell in love with her. = Again, her father intervened.=20 It took Kathleen much of her life to forgive her parents for these = traumas. When she did, realising the depth of their love for her - and = hers for them - it was even harder for her to bear the memory of her own = cruelty towards them, a rejection at the same pitch of harshness with = which, she felt, they had devastated her youth. "I set out in a dream/ = To go away -/ Away is hard to go, but no one/ Asked me to stay/ And = there is no destination for away," she wrote.=20 With a scholarship to Girton College, Cambridge, from Ilford county high = school, she read natural sciences and psychology, rather than the = English literature she already knew well. William Empson published her = poems in the magazine Experiment. Later, she suspected it was because he = had found her pretty.=20 Later, in old age, she admitted her shame to have fallen for the = nihilism, atheism and cleverness of Cambridge. But her father's = "blasting of first love", she wrote, had "cut something from my soul". = With her first paradise of Northumberland lost, she saw Ilford, where = her family settled, lose its idyllic countryside to the suburbia she = loathed.=20 After Cambridge, Kathleen married: because, as she admitted in her = autobiography, she had no idea what else to do. The marriage - to Hugh = Sykes Davies - failed; she eloped with Charles Madge (obituary, January = 24 1996), who conceived Mass Observation, and with whom she had a son, = James, and daughter, Anna. But she left this marriage, too, caught in a = sensual passion for a man who did not care for her.=20 The love of her life was the homosexual Gavin Maxwell. She believed they = shared all she held dearest in life. His grandfather was the Duke of = Northumberland; her grandmother had sat behind his in Kielder Kirk, = "admiring her coils of shining hair". He and Kathleen were at one in = their love for that place, for his hut at Sandaig on the west Highland = coast, and for Mijbil, the otter he had brought from the Euphrates. But = the relationship was doomed.=20 Once, at his request, they shared a bed, without sexual contact. "Every = night of my life, since then, I have spent alone," she wrote in The = Lion's Mouth (1977), her third volume of autobiography. In it, she tells = their story with surgical honesty, not avoiding what she came to see as = her most terrible act, the words she spoke in her despair by the rowan = tree on Sandaig that had symbolised for her the eternal quality of their = bond: "Let Gavin suffer in this place, as I am suffering now."=20 Maxwell's beloved Mij was killed, for which Kathleen blamed her = negligence; his house on Sandaig burned down. He endured other losses = and failures, and died prematurely of cancer in 1969.=20 The agony that Kathleen Raine underwent thereafter, expressed in her = poetry and prose, seems never wholly to have expiated her guilt for a = curse that so rebounded on herself. As a woman, she reviled herself as = loveless and destructive of other lives; as a poet, she castigated = herself for not writing more, or better - for neglecting her daimon, as = she called her gift and source. "Sin of omission: as women/ Withhold = love, so I poetry," as one poem begins.=20 Yet she kept faith with her vocation, producing more than a dozen books = of poetry in six decades. She visited India for the first time in her = 70s, and felt she had come home. She grew closer to her children, whose = lives she thought she had ruined, her grandchildren and = great-grandchildren. All but one grandchild survive her.=20 In 1980, her life took a new turning. With a group of like-minded = artists and writers, she launched Temenos - "a review devoted to the = arts of the imagination" - with its first issue offering contributions = from fellow poets David Gascoyne, Peter Redgrove and Vernon Watkins, and = the visionary artist Cecil Collins, as well as herself. The editors of = Temenos (the word means the sacred area around a temple) declared that = "the intimate link between the arts and the sacred" had fired = imaginative creation in almost all human societies, except our own. = Temenos aimed to challenge this "deviation" in the arts of its time.=20 It did so at an unpropitious moment, the start of the 1980s, a decade = that epitomised all that Temenos opposed - secularism, materialism, a = popularised culture and press, and Margaret Thatcher's denial of the = very existence of "society". Yet in the 1990s a tide turned. At the = Temenos Academy, Kathleen presided over discussions and lectures by = scientists, ecologists and economists, as well as scholars, writers and = artists from both east and west.=20 When asked how she wished people to remember her, Kathleen Raine said = she would rather they didn't. Or that Blake's words be said of her: = "That in time of trouble, I kept the divine vision". Better to be a = sprat in that "true ocean", she believed, than a big fish in a literary = rock pool.=20 =B7 Kathleen Jessie Raine, poet, born June 14 1908; died July 6 2003=20 Guardian Unlimited =A9 Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003=20 Obituary=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Ken Smith=20 A poet of self-discovery, his work was highly personal, yet accessible = and involving=20 Jon Glover Thursday July 3, 2003 The Guardian=20 Ken Smith, who has died aged 64, was a great poet. He emerged first in = the 1960s with other important new voices in Leeds, and was still = opening new doors for poetry in the new century. He was a writer of = personal experience who often reflected a sense of loss as he talked = through the urban landscape. But he was also a fine poet of the visual = and the present. Many of his books were a joy because of the way in = which they integrated photographs and drawings into the experience of = reading. His BBC radio programmes also merged speech with music and = sounds recorded on location. His poems had to be heard, seen and felt, = and they live on now as the visual, tactile and audible worlds of a = wonderfully rich imagination. Unlike some poets whose work is sparse, Ken Smith simply lived to write, = and he was at the height of his powers when he brought legionnaire's = disease with him back to London after a visit to Cuba. His last = retrospective collection, Shed, published in 2002, confirmed the immense = power of his poetry.=20 Ken Smith was born in Rudston, a small village in Yorkshire. His father = (a farm worker and then greengrocer shop owner), whose life he explores = in an early poem, Family Group, moved around, and Ken attended junior = schools all over the county: He was my father who=20 brought in wood and lit=20 The hissing lamp. And he=20 would sit, quiet=20 As moor before the fire.=20 After grammar school in Hull and Knaresborough, he did national service = in the air force from 1958, returned to Hull in 1960 and married his = first wife, Ann Minnis. In the same year he went to Leeds University to = read English. He was one of that generation who remembered the impact of = the war as children and who then went on to study after their own spell = of military life. Fellow students at Leeds included Jon Silkin and Tony = Harrison, and, like them, he was involved in editing and writing the = extraordinary weekly poetry magazine, Poetry And Audience. Geoffrey Hill = was an important influence as teacher and poet.=20 Silkin invited Ken to join him as coeditor of the quarterly Stand in = 1963, a position he held with others until 1972. In 1964 he won a = Gregory Award For Poetry, and his first pamphlet collection, 11 Poems, = appeared in the same year from Northern House, the small press jointly = organised by Stand and the school of English at Leeds University. This = established him as a key member of the group of poets most associated = with Leeds, and with a growing national and international reputation - = Silkin, Harrison and Hill.=20 From 1963 to 1965 Ken joined Silkin and others in selling Stand to = cinema queues, in pubs and in university halls of residence. His = journeys put him in contact with other important young writers. They = also helped to spread Stand's influence as a radical journal with a = commitment to politics, and to the world of writers with a consciousness = of social purpose far wider then that normally associated with the = English tradition.=20 Ken moved to teach in Exeter College of Art in 1965, and his first full = volume, The Pity, was published by Jonathan Cape in 1967. After joining = the widespread student (and staff) protests of 1968 and, crucially, = writing poetry about them in Academic Board Poems, in 1969 he left for = the US, where he became writer in residence at Slippery Rock State = College, Pennsylvania, and then at the College of the Holy Cross and = Clark University in Worcester, Massachusetts.=20 Work, Distances/Poems was published by the Swallow Press in Chicago in = 1972. His American poems had a more relaxed and open style than those in = The Pity, and seemed to discover an intensity of meaning, bringing = experience of space and experience of poetry together in a way = encapsulated in the layout of the title.=20 There was still the sense of movement that originated in the Yorkshire = landscape, but whereas rootlessness had earlier seemed only expressible = in a gruff, remorseful, hurting anger, now it was more relished and = tolerable, as in The Dream:=20 Where we are we belong,=20 Here or another place=20 How the tree speaks, talks=20 Of a fox passing through...=20 The fox, after its first appearance in 1968 in A Good Fox, was there = again in Fox Running (1980).=20 Ken and his family had returned to England in 1973; his work mainly = appeared in pamphlets, some self-published. He returned to Leeds = University as a Yorkshire arts fellow from 1976 to 1978. He went to live = in London after his marriage broke up. Fox Running appeared as a = cyclostyled, 32-page A4 pamphlet, just 150 copies at =A35 each.=20 This had some good reviews. An unsuspecting purchaser writing to The = Rolling Moss Press for a copy discovered that Rolling Moss was actually = Ken himself. Neil Astley of Bloodaxe Books (who had also worked with = Stand in Newcastle), had already published Ken's Tristan Crazy in 1978, = and agreed to produce a second edition of Fox Running in 1981. This was = followed the same year by Abel Baker Charlie Delta Epic Sonnets, and = Burned Books and The Poet Reclining, Selected Poems 1962-1980, both in = 1982. Writing in The Times Literary Supplement in June 1983, Roger = Garfitt, one of Ken's most perceptive critics, said: "Poetry ceases to = be what it so often is in England, an art of framed observations: it = becomes the spelling out of a selfhood, 'a language to speak to = myself'." Ken's reputation was established and his readership widened.=20 To some extent his achievement has paralleled the expansion and = influence of Bloodaxe. His journeys were both inwards and outwards. His = poems were intimately related to self-discovery as he placed himself in = stranger and more demanding situations. Terra (1986), A Book Of Chinese = Whispers (prose poems) and Wormwood (both 1987); all were produced while = Ken was writer-in-residence in Wormwood Scrubs prison between 1985 and = 1987. These were followed in 1989 by a major prose account of prison = life called Inside Time. He continued to travel and gathered his = intensely felt observations into prose, including Berlin (1990), on the = fall of the Berlin Wall and its aftermath, and several poem sequences = for BBC radio.=20 Later collections include Tender To The Queen Of Spain (1993), Wild Root = (1998), and the widely praised Shed. Many of his books have been Poetry = Book Society recommendations, and Terra was shortlisted for the = Whitbread poetry prize. Ken held other fellowships and awards. He = travelled widely in the US and Europe, visiting Hungary, Slovakia, = Ukraine and Romania to record sounds and voices for the BBC. He = continued to speak for victims of oppression, and the collaboration = required for radio work was a vital counter-balance to his intense = individuality. He edited, with his second wife, the poet and artist Judi = Benson, Klaonica: Poems For Bosnia (1993). He took part in Stand's 50th = birthday reading in Leeds in November 2002. He was about to carry out = research in the West Country for the BBC when he became ill in January.=20 Like many poets of his generation he formed a creative, symbiotic = relationship with America - its landscape, history and language. While = he lived for many years in London's East End he could, perhaps, talk = about the city experience only afterthe freedom and distances of the US = and its people. His poetry offers a special insight into the world in = which we now live. Highly personal yet accessible and involving, it = provides a record of journeys that seem at first to be strange, = distressing and unique. But many readers will continue to join him as = though finding vital common ground for the first time. =20 He is survived by his first wife and their children Nicole, Kate and = Danny; and by Judi and his stepson Todd.=20 =B7 Kenneth John Smith, poet, born December 4 1938; died June 27 2003=20 Guardian Unlimited =A9 Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003=20 ************************ TODD SWIFT POETRY EDITOR NTHPOSITION.COM (London) CONTRIBUTING EDITOR MATRIX MAGAZINE (Montreal) RATTAPALLAX MAGAZINE (New York) ************************ EMAIL: todd@toddswiftDOTCOM PHONE: +33 (0)1 45 44 00 94 (Paris) www.toddswift.com www.nthposition.com www.swiftylazarus.com Note: if you have email transmission difficulties, please call landline = to arrange alternate means of communication. * "I was a genius, and therefore unemployable." - Patrick Kavanagh ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 05:58:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: the imager the imaged the image and the breath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the imager the imaged the image and the breath #0001 amendment threat rocket at each end united states appointed Covenant confidence processing time days goats Raguil, who elaboration cragin processing time days Norhala centaurs Norhala centaurs goats Raguil, who creature time creature time possible for call first- her own creature time Hanina made prayed God he napped, and she familiar june going hard on a elaboration cragin needs address number Hanina made familiar june he napped, and she needs address number emergency plans party shall fourteen cases played becomes adult rumsfeld Adah fourteen cases many pulsating life. many pulsating life. played becomes adult life very accurately life very accurately Sterne's pelindaba treaty forth Paradise, life very accurately are government oppressively met oath being expected a man of his light explode into rumsfeld Adah security environment are government a man of his light oath being expected security environment so much mincing prime life, making required driving small Adam lessons iranian required the he had the he had driving small Adam shall straight shall straight export controls you go me? let my bas-relief shall straight eagerly produced an interested in don't Abel pelindaba -ongoing contracts jtf-cs provides jubilation, song lessons iranian Adam died, O Lord, -descend Adam In the eagerly produced an jtf-cs provides Abel pelindaba -ongoing contracts Adam died, O Lord, -descend Adam In the countries also place this is congressional developing more your boss. outcome congressional same way only human same way only human developing more Punishment Punishment monotony of his sing- driving catches up you smoothing Punishment again and defense organization rapacity who comfort and I bank so close hand over the your boss. outcome signing united again and and I bank so close rapacity who comfort signing united person of A old trees left notification dress crawled up to "In notification ark. a little pilot- ark. a little pilot- dress sought grasp veered sought grasp veered lead while signed attired adorned more discovery sought grasp veered daughter said to summary budget earth you were his had But Mr. Van Wyk, take appropriate crawled up to "In pleasing daughter said to had But Mr. Van Wyk, earth you were his pleasing abstract bit, licensing -out of the ark men. august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:13:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let me see if I have this right; if the left (which I've never been able to find despite going out every day for years with my flashlight looking for one) abandons its political agenda and appeals to the nigger-hating, jew-baiting, anti-queer, anti-feminist nazis, and panders to these and other hatreds of the poor, forgotten white bigots, it might be able to win an election? You forget to mention in your litany of why the right has its shit together that the right controls the media, the economic agenda, the military, the money, and the judicial system. This is probably an oversight on your part, and a very telling one. Perhaps we ought to stop talking about leftists who, if they exist at all, have never had much of an impact on the US political scene except in the negative, and speak to liberals and democrats, which is not the same thing. Of course, in your right-wing training class, you probably were taught that these ARE the same things, which is why you use this label to describe people who wouldn't be caught dead at a leftist gathering, should one ever take place. joe brennan In a message dated 07/07/2003 9:15:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, saudade@COMCAST.NET writes: > Allot of people on the site are writing about why the right has its shit > together and the left does not. I am prob the only person on this site who > went to GOP Campaign school and worked when I was in college for Reagan and > I have to tell you that the reason that the right wins is because they > learned from great leftists of the past to be ruthless. The GOP and the > Conservative movement was build upon resentment and giving voice to people > who the left chose to ignore, white ethnics, white southerners, lower middle > class workers and suburbanites a voice. This is a message drilled into > everyone on the right just look at who are Fox's key personalities, Bill > O'Reilly a self described Irish Catholic from Long Island, Sean Hannity, > look at Rush Limbaugh, he is an evangelical from Missouri, Anne Coulter is a > a German American Catholic School product, and the list goes on. > > The model for much of what the right does is not Fascism it is the old left > of Richard Daley and FDR and old labor. If you look at the rise of the Right > in the USA what did they do to build themselves up? 1) They allied > themselves with easy issues that were easy to convey and they did it in a > non elitist way.. 2) The left on the other hand was spending its time > drumming the Richard Daley's,Jimmy Hoffa's and John Connally's out of its > ranks this created resentment among these core groups the result was that > they left and today congressmen like William Lipinski in Chicago or Zell > Miller in Georgia are rarities in the Democratic party. 3) The fact is that > the key swing groups in this country, many that have leftist economic views > but conservative morals, are white ethnics in the north and white > southerners this group is over 40% of the US population and the > Conservatives focused on this group and while many of them, especially the > Catholics and Southern/Northern Labor Union members were genetically > democrats and liberal on allot of issues for example 60% of all Catholics > oppose the death penalty, they left and voted for the GOP because no one > spoke to them in the Democratic party except Bill Clinton, since 1964 Bill > Clinton was the only Democrat to do well with these voters. 4) FDR and LBJ > understood that the key to winning elections was to build a coalition of > people who have some things in common, not all things in common, and they > won, and the right was all but wiped away from 1933-1964 but Conservatives > learned well from FDR and built their own coalition. 5) But the left still > has the neo-Marxist notion that you must be on board on all issues to be > part of a movement as FDR said someone who is with me 80% of the time is not > my 20% enemy he is my 80% friend. This is something that most on the left > do not understand. > > The fact is that while the left has preached ideological purity and elitism > the right has gathered together a coalition and this coalition is growing in > the South West they are spending millions on Hispanics and in New York they > are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are smarter because they > realize that winning leads to governing and building a coalition is key to > this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, Blacks some Hispanics and > what is Left of the Union vote you need more votes and they are to be found > in white working and lower middle and the middle class. > > The left has not given the members of the Right's coalition a reason to look > to them, when industrial jobs were being destroyed in this country > environmentalists looked upon this as a way to clean up the environment. > Today industrial jobs are a memory in the nation and it is hard to have a > labor movement without these jobs and Labor's strength is the reason that > Europe has a humane system and we do not. > > While affirmative action is essential and needed for African Americans the > left has not come up with anything to help those people who do not fall into > a protected group for education and opportunity. If you are a working class > white male from Appalachia or Queens or Berwyn, IL there is no one offering > you a hand you are considered 'white'just like some society WASP from > Connecticut and you wonder why these people vote Republican? They do not > feel that anyone on the left is listening as their opportunities are taken > away; go to neighborhoods like Hegwisch here in Chicago and see the three > generation Union families that are on welfare now because the factories > moved to China, there are millions of Americans in this position and no one > on the left cares. Franco once said that the reason the left lost in Spain > is because they thought they knew what the 'people'wanted but they did not > know any 'people'. > I think that the left needs to spend more time with regular working people > and less time in university towns and elite neighborhoods if the left did > this and really listened there is no way that the right could win another > election and Fox would not matter > > > They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:32:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: "These Russians Poets" (was : FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics) Comments: cc: myankelevich@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom Bell writes: "This is a little disorienting in our times with waves of emigres coming from all over. Are these Russian avant garde poets or Russian avant-garde poets of the emigre generation of 1917 or 1960 or 1980 and are the emigre poets of Russia or Ukrainia? I'm not saying this in a dismissive way at all and await my copy but I think the question might be of interest to the list as we start to see waves of emigre avant garde artists and \poets from other lands. Somebody needs to come up with a better way of classifying these things." Hello, Tom! I'm not exactly sure who you mean by "these Russian poets," but since you've posted this in response to my Fulcrum announcement, I guess you probably mean Katia Kapovich and me? We were both born in the sixties. I don't see myself as a Russian poet because I don't write anything literary in Russian, nor do I particularly identify with any sort of "Russian sensibility" (whatever that means), although people are already beginning pigeonhole me into that (to my slight annoyance) now that the first critical mentions of my book are beginning to emerge. Although love Russian poetry, am on friendly terms with many Russian poets, and am "steeped" (love that word) in Russian culture (I suppose this explains why certain things Russian can be found in Fulcrum 2), I don't really consider myself a part of any sort of Russian =E9migr=E9 = "community" or "identity," although I have no objection to them either. The whole business of national identity/mentality is quite foreign to me =96 I couldn=92t care less for such things. Katia Kapovich, my wife and co-editor, writes in both languages. She is bilingual; is a brilliant and well-regarded Russian poet with a few books in that language; and also has an English-language collection forthcoming. Her style in English is original, largely independent of, and quite different from her Russian style. She was a member of literary dissident movement in the USSR and emigrated in 1990. (Katia is not from Russia proper -- she lived in Moldova throughout her "Soviet" years. Moldova was one of the =93sister republics=94 that formed the old USSR = but is a separate country today.) Katia and I don't publish our own poetry in Fulcrum. There are three Russian poets in Fulcrum 2: two Moscow residents (Lev Rubinstein and Sergey Gandlevsky) and one =E9migr=E9 who lives in Prague (Alexei = Tsvetkov). All three are very major poets. Their poetry appears in Fulcrum in translation. (Their bio notes can be found at the end of Fulcrum 2.)=20 Fulcrum 2 also includes black-and-white graphic works by the 20th-century Russian artist Mstislav Dobuzhinsky (with a biographical essay by Mikhail Kovner); Mikhail Iamposki's essay on Komar and Melamid (two Russian avantgarde collaborative artists who founded the Sots Art movement in the late 60s and have lived in NY City since the 70s); and interview with Joseph Brodsky. None of the other 60+ contributors to the issue are Russian, nor are the 15 contributing editors.) As an aside -- and in my own humble opinion with which some will surely to disagree -- there are only two serious avangtgarde poets writing in Russian today: Dmitrii Prigov and Lev Rubinshtein. Both live in Moscow (though Prigov also visits London a lot). The two used to be known as "conceptualists" (in a peculiar Russian sense). Prigov is also a considerable visual artist. Their work lends itself to translation reasonably well and is definitely worth considering. Alexander Eremenko, another brilliant Muscovite with an avantgarde temperament, does not seem to be writing these days. There are several English-language poets of Russian extraction in the US. Many if not most of them adhere to avantgarde poetics. I am no expert on this group, but I believe most of them are somewhat younger than me (I'm 37), and most of them grew up in this country and use English as their first language. I gather that this group (or groups?) does have some sort of shared identity (or identities). At any rate, my friend Matvei Yankelevich (vibrant writer and publisher of Ugly Duckling Presse in NY) is currently writing an essay about Russo-American poets. He certainly knows more about this latter group than I do, and I'll forward this discussion to him for possible comment, and will also post the reference when his essay appears. I hope this helps a bit! With best wishes, Philip Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 email queries: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:39:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion In-Reply-To: <158.210ceacc.2c3c2b76@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My two cents the right has also won many elections by strategically disenfranchising lower income people, people of color, and new immigrants. the right won the last presidential election with blatant disregard for public opinion. i love that fierce exchange Michael Douglas has with Michael J Fox in "American President". "Lewis, people don't crawl through the desert to drink sand because they want water, they drink sand because they don't know the difference." the right wins elections through misrepresentation, chicanery, terrorism, and in some cases brute violence. > > The fact is that while the left has preached > ideological purity and elitism > > the right has gathered together a coalition and > this coalition is growing in > > the South West they are spending millions on > Hispanics and in New York they > > are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are > smarter because they > > realize that winning leads to governing and > building a coalition is key to > > this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, > Blacks some Hispanics and ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:41:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion In-Reply-To: <20030708143941.54803.qmail@web40806.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The "right" stole the election in Florida. It didn't "win" anything. STOLE. It took criminal ledgers from Texas, Alabama, and two other states. Then it listed all the more general "black" sounding common names like James Johnson, etc. and everyone who showed up to vote in Florida with the same names were not permitted to vote. It illegally stole the election. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kazim Ali Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:40 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion My two cents the right has also won many elections by strategically disenfranchising lower income people, people of color, and new immigrants. the right won the last presidential election with blatant disregard for public opinion. i love that fierce exchange Michael Douglas has with Michael J Fox in "American President". "Lewis, people don't crawl through the desert to drink sand because they want water, they drink sand because they don't know the difference." the right wins elections through misrepresentation, chicanery, terrorism, and in some cases brute violence. > > The fact is that while the left has preached > ideological purity and elitism > > the right has gathered together a coalition and > this coalition is growing in > > the South West they are spending millions on > Hispanics and in New York they > > are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are > smarter because they > > realize that winning leads to governing and > building a coalition is key to > > this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, > Blacks some Hispanics and ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:56:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, my friend, you have the illusion of honesty as being relevant in = politics...it just ain't so. Perhaps the new right gets to say, "back = at ya!." Was there in recent decades a more blatant theft of an = election than the outright purchase of votes by Joe Kennedy Sr. for his = slightly to the left of center son John?=20 And that thievery of which you speak took organization and dedicated = effort on the part of thousands of dedicated criminals intent on gaining = the top seat in order to advance their agenda. Reversing that victory = will require as much (or perhaps more) labor on the part of those...left = or otherwise...interested in achieving that goal of gaining the top = office and advancing a different agenda.=20 Alex ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Anastasios Kozaitis=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:41 AM Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in = my Humble opinion The "right" stole the election in Florida. It didn't "win" anything. STOLE. It took criminal ledgers from Texas, Alabama, and two other states. Then it listed all the more general "black" sounding common names like James Johnson, etc. and everyone who showed up to vote in Florida with the same names were not permitted to vote. It illegally stole the election. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kazim Ali Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:40 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in = my Humble opinion My two cents the right has also won many elections by strategically disenfranchising lower income people, people of color, and new immigrants. the right won the last presidential election with blatant disregard for public opinion. i love that fierce exchange Michael Douglas has with Michael J Fox in "American President". "Lewis, people don't crawl through the desert to drink sand because they want water, they drink sand because they don't know the difference." the right wins elections through misrepresentation, chicanery, terrorism, and in some cases brute violence. > > The fact is that while the left has preached > ideological purity and elitism > > the right has gathered together a coalition and > this coalition is growing in > > the South West they are spending millions on > Hispanics and in New York they > > are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are > smarter because they > > realize that winning leads to governing and > building a coalition is key to > > this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, > Blacks some Hispanics and =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: yet another version Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'One in 10' Iraqi treasures looted http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3054974.stm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:38:17 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble No Joe, you don't have it right. The point Haas is making is that no one is reaching out to the poor, forgotten whites except for those with a bigoted agenda. Unless you assume that white ethnics & southerners are by their very nature bigoted, which would be a classist & misguided assumption. Obviously white working folks haven't cornered the market on intolerance, since that agenda is being pushed in "the media, the economic agenda, the military, the money, the judicial system." The pusher here is a super-rich power structure with the juice to get their point across, not white have-nots. The post reinforces Haas' statement. Dismissal of the white working class in America spells political failure. You also make a great point- university intellectuals who ignore the forementioned agenda machines will likewise fail. Frank> Let me see if I have this right; if the left (which I've never been able to > find despite going out every day for years with my flashlight looking for one) > abandons its political agenda and appeals to the nigger-hating, jew-baiting, > anti-queer, anti-feminist nazis, and panders to these and other hatreds of the > poor, forgotten white bigots, it might be able to win an election? You forget > to mention in your litany of why the right has its shit together that the > right controls the media, the economic agenda, the military, the money, and the > judicial system. This is probably an oversight on your part, and a very > telling one. Perhaps we ought to stop talking about leftists who, if they exist at > all, have never had much of an impact on the US political scene except in the > negative, and speak to liberals and democrats, which is not the same thing. > Of course, in your right-wing training class, you probably were taught that > these ARE the same things, which is why you use this label to describe people who > wouldn't be caught dead at a leftist gathering, should one ever take place. > > joe brennan > > In a message dated 07/07/2003 9:15:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > saudade@COMCAST.NET writes: > > > > Allot of people on the site are writing about why the right has its shit > > together and the left does not. I am prob the only person on this site who > > went to GOP Campaign school and worked when I was in college for Reagan and > > I have to tell you that the reason that the right wins is because they > > learned from great leftists of the past to be ruthless. The GOP and the > > Conservative movement was build upon resentment and giving voice to people > > who the left chose to ignore, white ethnics, white southerners, lower middle > > class workers and suburbanites a voice. This is a message drilled into > > everyone on the right just look at who are Fox's key personalities, Bill > > O'Reilly a self described Irish Catholic from Long Island, Sean Hannity, > > look at Rush Limbaugh, he is an evangelical from Missouri, Anne Coulter is a > > a German American Catholic School product, and the list goes on. > > > > The model for much of what the right does is not Fascism it is the old left > > of Richard Daley and FDR and old labor. If you look at the rise of the Right > > in the USA what did they do to build themselves up? 1) They allied > > themselves with easy issues that were easy to convey and they did it in a > > non elitist way.. 2) The left on the other hand was spending its time > > drumming the Richard Daley's,Jimmy Hoffa's and John Connally's out of its > > ranks this created resentment among these core groups the result was that > > they left and today congressmen like William Lipinski in Chicago or Zell > > Miller in Georgia are rarities in the Democratic party. 3) The fact is that > > the key swing groups in this country, many that have leftist economic views > > but conservative morals, are white ethnics in the north and white > > southerners this group is over 40% of the US population and the > > Conservatives focused on this group and while many of them, especially the > > Catholics and Southern/Northern Labor Union members were genetically > > democrats and liberal on allot of issues for example 60% of all Catholics > > oppose the death penalty, they left and voted for the GOP because no one > > spoke to them in the Democratic party except Bill Clinton, since 1964 Bill > > Clinton was the only Democrat to do well with these voters. 4) FDR and LBJ > > understood that the key to winning elections was to build a coalition of > > people who have some things in common, not all things in common, and they > > won, and the right was all but wiped away from 1933-1964 but Conservatives > > learned well from FDR and built their own coalition. 5) But the left still > > has the neo-Marxist notion that you must be on board on all issues to be > > part of a movement as FDR said someone who is with me 80% of the time is not > > my 20% enemy he is my 80% friend. This is something that most on the left > > do not understand. > > > > The fact is that while the left has preached ideological purity and elitism > > the right has gathered together a coalition and this coalition is growing in > > the South West they are spending millions on Hispanics and in New York they > > are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are smarter because they > > realize that winning leads to governing and building a coalition is key to > > this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, Blacks some Hispanics and > > what is Left of the Union vote you need more votes and they are to be found > > in white working and lower middle and the middle class. > > > > The left has not given the members of the Right's coalition a reason to look > > to them, when industrial jobs were being destroyed in this country > > environmentalists looked upon this as a way to clean up the environment. > > Today industrial jobs are a memory in the nation and it is hard to have a > > labor movement without these jobs and Labor's strength is the reason that > > Europe has a humane system and we do not. > > > > While affirmative action is essential and needed for African Americans the > > left has not come up with anything to help those people who do not fall into > > a protected group for education and opportunity. If you are a working class > > white male from Appalachia or Queens or Berwyn, IL there is no one offering > > you a hand you are considered 'white'just like some society WASP from > > Connecticut and you wonder why these people vote Republican? They do not > > feel that anyone on the left is listening as their opportunities are taken > > away; go to neighborhoods like Hegwisch here in Chicago and see the three > > generation Union families that are on welfare now because the factories > > moved to China, there are millions of Americans in this position and no one > > on the left cares. Franco once said that the reason the left lost in Spain > > is because they thought they knew what the 'people'wanted but they did not > > know any 'people'. > > I think that the left needs to spend more time with regular working people > > and less time in university towns and elite neighborhoods if the left did > > this and really listened there is no way that the right could win another > > election and Fox would not matter > > > > > > > > > > > > They hang the man and flog the woman > That steal the goose from off the common, > But let the greater villain loose > That steals the common from the goose. > > Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency > to render the head too large for the body. A standing military > force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. > companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson > > > "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed > by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say > corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't > want us to know." > > Gore Vidal --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:46:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: 000 In-Reply-To: <000001c343ba$e3a53920$0100a8c0@bucephalus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 000 ....1....................| . say it w/ secuity.....say it in position 200 =3D+=3D say it with a = =20 that is (was) (will b) a number |___| and + and the voice says, =93this=20= is the perfect location: the echo future sucked inside a site=20 remembered, =94the voice says sitting next to you/me, =93do you remember=20= you / |I| sitting saying it with sincerity, (=91dear I am am water. this=20= is your mask - watch for the incoming contrast regulating=20 (non-regulated) speaking parts. and sayith: praise praise, holy holy,=20 praise praise, holy holy.=92)=94 the visitor is awaken in the dream life of that which is a dream life -=20= or- something soon to come with the next . . . this is to say -/// =93the=20= wind wishes past economy higher then low.=94 say it on schedule - in an=20= hour- in X - defiled by another need for cohesion - point blank minus=20 or plus all substitutions (this includes for U comfort, situations in a=20= fixed flexible focus - infinity @ 38,000 -or - 42,000 and early=20 formulation). to the public: please protect and preserve these new /// gothically=20 pointed dream explorers - these systems in climax - these something=20 between a here and memories carpeted landscapes (that remained closed=20 by multiple surface things and portable things - renamed new and=20 better { minute details in the production of which began to say it with=20= that that instructed so . . . }).... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:08:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: democracy again? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0708Iraq08-ON.html <> Resumption of the democratic system? Who elected this advisory board? Elections were cancelled, so it wasn't the Iraqi people. The advisory panel is "to advise the US-led administration" rather than advise the Iraqi people. It's not surprising that this obviously sn't democracy. What's surprising to me is that the AP article makes no mention of the fact that this obviously isn't democracy despite Bremer's words. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:17:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: _cross.ova.ing ][4rm.blog.2.log][ 23/06/2003-08/07/2003_ (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (from mez) ************* _______________________________________________________ _o[h the]pen(EWE.CLIDIAN,$euclidian);_ 09:12am 08/07/2003 ________________________________________________________ open(EWE.CLIDIAN,$u.clidian) || die "Can't open $euclidian: $!"; .mandib[i]le beading in shower structurals [water.perls.flipping.thru.grav(ity)e.humids] .%g.ripping + dr.unk[le] preenings as the MOOn.iversals.grate+communication.p.urges .data.p[j]oint.tattooing + d[C]duction.cavity.loops die "Can't open $u.clidian: $!" unless open(EWE.CLIDIAN,$euclidian); ____________ Post ____________ _________________________________________________________ [_N.]Finite [_M]Press[_ionistic] 07:34pm 01/07/2003 __________________________________________________________ ------------//n.finite [regr](m.pr)ess.ionistic . [m(l)ove.ment.in.essence.cycles] [tree.chopped(field.d.limiter-rank)_limbed+swarmically_healing] [relev(st)ationary.visions.thru.music.merged.with.visual.(hi-parsed)lites] . [feet.motion.blown.via.auditory.snacking.parcels] [concen(tan)tric.glass.finga.moon.shape.breakages+tangent.node_line] [swallow_n_shocked_bird-patternesque] |box-patternesqueness. |M-T hollowed_seatings.@.potential.luvers.blank_tab[ular-razored]les. |i.seek.N.cannot.dream.fined. (+h+)art.leakages. --------------//a.gain. ____________ Post ____________ ____________________________________________________________________ _N.ternet N.force [micro.paw(n)]officer_ [soft.launch.ing] 09:16am 29/06/2003 ____________________________________________________________________ Tasks n.clude; ? [n]tense + volu[me lowered thru smurf.juicing.it.up]te net use . re.D.fining s[ocial]earch online pick_up [on]s[errage +crumbling c(l)ost cuttage]ite e_valu[e = O]ation. ? te{[rrible] [ara]}chnical deviousness thru Object_Oversight of P[otential]eers . [au]Tomat[o]ed s[d]e[sign + deaf.mimic.speeching] arch[i.texture] engines. _________________ Read 2 - Post _________________ __________________________________________ full_blown_wir[ed]ing 03:05pm 23/06/2003 __________________________________________ .screen t.app.isness + w.asp_drilling .i .c .thistle. cows. in. data. paddocks. .drinking mobile cancers thru t.high[5].pores .wishing step[ford]_babies would revolve N cool.in.the.mid.age.sun[spotting] .robotick.tick.tick_tingles as i txt.jerk N non_siamesically twitch ____________ Post ____________ _______________________________________________________________________________ http://www.williamgibsonboard.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5006046771&f=8606097971&m=7796054543&r=6746044353# 08:57am 23/06/2003 _______________________________________________________________________________ ________ mood: dis.junct.tiff music: radiohead's _hail 2 the thief_ ________ ][mez][ Member posted June 22, 2003 03:35 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _j.u[rl]st ta[l]king//[buying.in2.the.troll.boat]_ quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- especially on this thread when I dearly like to discuss the issue. but then I'm not sure what it is you're actually saying. I'm not exactly fluent in mezengelle [and as I mentioned to caltrop, I can get lazy =;> ]. and also I'd like to be able to think _about_ the body of the conversation quickly, rather than spending the thinking time dechiphering what's being said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- this.is.ur.dictum. it isn't, how.eva, mine. .my .orientation .is .uber.wise [ie not lazy or laze_n.ducing nor straight.white.bread.info.absorption] [read: if.u.will] [re:spond: if. u. w.ant(s communication crawling)] or don't. s[w]imple as that. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- for instance; quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- it also points 2wards the next tier of ubermarketing....less noesis appeal, more n.trinsic layering of ultimate narrative as a fiscal reward source rather than just a n[ovel].tertainment pay-off... p[r]ay.2.receive.jig.sored.story.load[ings]? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please explain the last part. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- this is a f[riction]urred.n.flection of the 1st par.t[ickle.ur.fiction.gland, please!] __________________ breaking down: --p[r]ay.2. >>pray station allusions (play.station.re.wurking (google it if nec) n.dicating non_parentized story loc(ations)]. >>religious baggage n.serts [_pray 2_ n.dicating semi-religious demig(h)odge(podge)ry that may spring up around this process] --receive.jig.sored.story.load[ings]? jig.sored = jig.sawed narrative nuances [trawling processes] + sore n.dicating a painful reorientation of "normal" story.data gathering quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jigsawed story loadings? you want more of this type of meta-narrative? (I like the word meta) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i.want.much. [including ur trajectory]. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- specially considering the lack of ego.purr.petuation they _seam_ 2 want 2 m.ulate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- whose lack of ego perpetuation? what do you mean the lack of...they want emulate? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the bros rn't especially keen 2 b interviewed. [comp.ree.hend.AI?] quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- no habblas mezengelle. compromise for clear discussion, yes? perhaps babblefish is desirable or subtitles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- clear discussion? bah. eng.leash is not a static language. [do u think that english sprang forth fully formed from the (foaming) mouths of anglo-celtic-germania gods? & correspondingly, that its position is fixed in stone, & that the x.tra words they end up shoveling in2 dictionaries r simply 2 be scorned as neologistic heresy? also, do u also adhere 2 the notion that the methods of communication via channels such as email and mobile technologies have no m.pact on the resultant conception of new modes that negotiate the function[s] of language?] just bah!, really. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _this_ board is, like any other, filled 2 the gills with partial reductionists N retrograders who standardise N procedurally echo.the.canon.as.godhead without any d.tailed x.planation or nuanced m.mersion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- disagreed. the people on this board are more intelligent and tolerant than most other chatrooms/forums (IMHO). We value thought and content and it is understandable that they get frustrated when the syntax of the message is unclear. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...yes. which is y i said that otherlings x.ist here, 2? [edit function: mis.noma.ing] quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Off-Thread: Gender baiting. Put it down, your feminism is showing. I don't believe that this has anything to do with gender. I come from a generation that has learned to despise his own gender. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- fairies nuts. [d.code that] i fall on the side of masculine/feminine traits that go across sex stereo.typ[os]ing. . - pro][rating][.lucid.txt - - http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/ _ _cr[xxx]oss ova.ring. [This message was edited by ][mez][ on June 22, 2003 at 03:55 PM.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 42 | Registered: April 28, 2003 ][mez][ Member posted June 22, 2003 03:41 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . e[diting].motion.haulage. . [This message was edited by ][mez][ on June 22, 2003 at 03:53 PM.] [This message was edited by ][mez][ on June 22, 2003 at 04:01 PM.] [This mez.age was noma.edited by ][just had a thought, in terms of historical baggage do u think this is in part b.cause the US x.ists in a fundamental adolescent-ethos? ie removal from the established lines of the historic via the civil war [ = rebellion + concretization of|thru hierarchical _old power_ stratifications =] ][so][c][ial][limatising of overblown, inflated ][body politic][ worth = shiny capitalism (post WW2) as the new religious order & blind negation/military (bully)mindsetting of anything that offers alternatives 2 this [cf mcarthyism + bushism(s)] = n.herent institutionalised belief structures [cf covert facism] that reflect this = future a][rrogant][ggrandizement of projected realities [in terms of economy, business function, etc].........?][ ][ on June 22, 2003 at 04:01 PM.] [This message was edited by ][mez][ on June 22, 2003 at 04:04 PM.] [This message was edited by ][mez][ on June 22, 2003 at 04:05 PM.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 42 | Registered: April 28, 2003 ][mez][ Member posted June 22, 2003 03:48 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _keeping N.glish segmented in a nostalgic pocket_ i _do_ understand overt resistance to this style of language construction. -- that ppl need keep english segmented in a nostalgic pocket, a functioning system predicated on wot u [they] c as a static language base. Kant. we. view. language[s]. thru. a. Moore. fluid. filter? --i'm not aiming 2 obsfuscate --i'm aiming 2 n.hance language within certain creative parameters. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 42 | Registered: April 28, 2003 All times are PST ____________ Post ____________ - pro][rating][.lucid.txt - - http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/ _ _cr[xxx]oss ova.ring. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:18:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Much respect and gratitude for Hass' post. Have "fought" and otherwise contended with "the working white" all my life, a/the class with which I'm intimately familiar. Cannot but agree with almost everything that Hass smartly introduces. Including the "ruthless" thing. Philosophy and Platonic ideals aside, ("we") must be ruthless in defeating the Republicans politically. So some prospective voters are horrible bigots? Then manipulate them into voting against Bush by any means. It's politics, and the game needs to be played hard and fast and shrewdly. Ain't a lot of time to be intolerant about gaining intolerant voters or tolerant about criticizing ourselves for being ruthless. Moreover, there are innumerable elite Dems who could care less about all the finer points of Tolerance, and they would sell Tolerance X, Y, Z down the river in a heartbeat if it threatened their financial well-being. Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:52:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I couldn't answer yesterday because of the 2 message rule. Look, I'm not impuning the virtue of the working class in general, but it's a matter of record that the south shifted from voting for democrats to voting for republicans, and democratic legislators and governors succesfully jumped to the republican party in the wake of desegregation. Those erstwhile democrats weren't all liberals or progressives, let alone leftists, but they could be counted on to vote with the democratic majority in congress. Meanwhile in their home states the legislatures were voting for "right to work" laws, which crippled the unions, and textile manufacturing continued its exit to the far east. In much of the rest of the country the urban exodus to the suburbs was accellerated by what was called "white flight," working class people fleeing their newly integrated neighborhoods. The suburbs have become the other major base of the republican party. The working class of your dreams has with a fair degree of consistency voted against its own best interests. A case in point: all the polls indicated that Jesse Helms, who had become a laughing stock in North Carolina, would lose his last two senate races. Apparently significant numbers of people were too embarrassed to admit their voting plans to the pollsters. Helms was running against a black man. He played the race card and won. I'm not aware, by the way, of the rejoicing of the environmental community over the loss of industrial jobs. Factories that poisoned their workers and the environment, incidentally an environment largely inhabited by working class people, were unlamented, but the plea has always been for sustainable, non-polluting industries. Note that I use democrat as a stand-in for leftist. I kinow the difference. I also know that what progressive legislation we get, insufficient bas it is, comes mostly out of the democratic caucus. Mark >At 09:13 PM 7/7/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I did not say that environmentalists caused industrial jobs to leave what I >said is that many were happy when they did go and no one on the left not >Jesse Jackson or anyone else challenged this in Europe for example nations >like Germany and Italy have spent billions retooling industries and >retraining workers what have we done? Let our industrial cities rot. > >The issue is not how the Senate or the House is distributed or the fact that >Rural areas are over represented the issue is that except for Bill Clinton >no Democrat since LBJ has set forth a vision that the key swing voters >wanted. Hell Al Gore lost >his own home state and region if he had won one southern state he would be >president today. I think that you make a mistake when you equate White >Southern and Northern White Ethnic concerns with bigotry most are not bigots >they work hard and play by the rules and have been victimized by changes >that have benefited the elites in our society. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:58:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: first laureate poem Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is too good, Patrick! You are going to get a movie contract out of this. And think of the web blog you can keeping during the shoot - the literary reputation of "Swimming to Cambodia" will be reduced to a pond and the ocean out there - off Cape Hatteras - "combustion to the astral core" will be yours. Along with all the other obvious treats. Have fun, Stephen V on 7/7/03 10:30 PM, Patrick Herron at patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG wrote: > Here's my first poem as laureate, along with some explanation for the Arts > Committee...the poem is to be posted in a place where a piece of artwork was > taken down in Town Hall; the piece of art was an American flag with stars > made from swastikas, made by Hunter C. Levinsohn: > > > > This is a sort of early draft for the poem you requested...with a very long > introductory quote that may serve as a sort of side panel to the display of > the poem. I imagine the poem displayed as a center panel in a triptych of > text bookended by some pre-US naval flag designs. I imagine the left panel, > the with pledge of allegiance and the quotes of Francis Bellamy, the author > of the pledge who was an incorrigable bigot who hated everyone: > African-Americans, Southerners, immigrants, etc. The right panel might > contain perhaps a copy of the constitution and some quotes about the > differences between patriotism of one sort and patriotism of a more grand > sort, the patriotism our Founding Fathers envisioned. I simply want to pit > the "pledge" against the "Constitution." I think there's a huge rift there > in the American psyche that very few are actually conscious of. We who have > recited the Pledge of Allegiance so many times. As opposed to how few of us > have ever read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. It's starting to show. > > I also want to show the image from old public school manuals requiring > students to raise their hands during the muttering of the Pledge. The > raising of the hand is uncannily similar to the Seig Heil sign of Nazi > Germany. http://history.vineyard.net/pledgem.gif > > The motif of the intervening statements between the couplets were taken from > Betsy Ross flags ("Don't tread on me" and "An appeal to heaven"), a quote > from the Founding Fathers about the original flag of 13 stars and stripes, > and of course the constitution. > > http://www.provo.org/mayor/Public_Information/Historic_Flag_Collection/flag- > Wash.gif > http://www.provo.org/mayor/Public_Information/Historic_Flag_Collection/flag_ > gadsen.jpg > > They have rather opposite sentiments, don't they? > > "A new constellation" On 14 June 1777 (my birthday) the Second > Constitutional Congress met in Philadelphia (my home hometown, the home of > my family), voting to create a national flag. The Founding Fathers wrote: > "Resolved, that the flag of the United States be thirteen stripes, alternate > red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field > representing a new constellation." > > The last segue of the liberty tree flag "An appeal to heaven" allows a > transition to ever-so-slight images of 9/11, of who has died, who is dying > and who is surviving. This flag has incredible resonances with Hunter's > work, not only with her swastika'd flag but also with her cigarette butt > art, with 9/11, and with the American flag. But how to tie all of those > together, and into something bigger? > > The idea that the dead have a sort of levity was inspired by Hunter's > reference to the Incan symbol of butterflies. It's a very sober and > unexclamatory moment that works well only when set against the > word-and-rhythm-drunk remainder of the poem. > > I've written this piece in a sort of voice I imagine an African-American or > African-American-inspired/influenced Evangelical preacher taking, which I > think is the perfect voice for such a stance. (Maybe it's because I watched > Robert Duvall in "Apostle" last night.) We know we're being held asunder > and we know we are ignored but we refuse to be silenced. So we shout > insisting we must be heard. We can "take back" the flag fron these > mealy-mouthed regressivists by aligning ourselves with the dead of 9/11. We > must "take back" the language and iconography of America! Here's a start, > right here, in our own town. No battle is too small. > > The title is in part a "veiled" reference to the cover-up of Guernica in > Colin Powell's presence at the UN during the US Gov'ts WMD presentations. > > > > Cover-up > > > for Hunter C. Levinsohn > > > > "The hard inescapable fact is that men are not born equal. Neither are they > born free, but all in bonds to their ancestors and their environments... > > "The success of government by the people will depend upon the stuff that > people are made of. The people must realize their responsibility to > themselves. They must guard, more jealously even than their liberties, the > quality of their blood. > > "A democracy like ours cannot afford to throw itself open to the world. > Where every man is a lawmaker, every dull-witted or fanatical immigrant > admitted to our citizenship is a bane to the commonwealth. Where all classes > of society merge insensibly into one another every alien immigrant of > inferior race may bring corruption to the stock. > > "There are races, more or less akin to our own, whom we may admit freely, > and get nothing but advantage from the infusion of their wholesome blood. > But there are other races which we cannot assimilate without a lowering of > our racial standard, which should be as sacred to us as the sanctity of our > homes." > > "The stuff in our Anglo-Saxon blood [...] supplies the stamina and wholesome > aggressiveness of our race. The sane impulse of conflict that is in us needs > some recognition. > > "There is no quality that a nation can less afford to lose than its > aggressive manliness. It is a quality amalgamate of courage, endurance, > restraint, and the power to act surely and unfalteringly in an emergency." > > "The leaders of the negroes have been unendurable, more than the negro > voters themselves. .. So white Republicans make common cause with Democrats > for the disfranchisement of the negro... > > "When the Southern finds a method for accomplishing his purpose he does not > stop." > > "Cheap peon labor in Mexico is of a shiftless and unreliable kind. The > native Mexican works only that he may live. If he can live for a month on > the rewards of a week's work, he will work for twelve weeks out of the year > and not a week more." > > - Francis Bellamy, author of the Pledge of Allegiance > > > > Don't tread on me. > > Some attend to the Pledge of Allegiance and > Offend upend and bury the rights that still guide us. > > Damnation! Freedom is not the right to put asunder the views > of any one star that glows and stands in one nation under > > > A new constellation. > > We refuse to be gagged and we resist, > Insisting we too under the same flag, > > > We the people. > > Communion is not the ability to restrict or forsake free speech > Protected by Constitutional edict. Together we make > > > An appeal to heaven. > > We are the handworkers, the artisans of garbage. > We the dead hold office in the refuse, the rubble and the sewage. > > Flags some use to cover up caskets > Cannot keep the dead down. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:17:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "M. Bogue" Subject: *apache lived in a pretty how toy* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii apache lived in a pretty how toy (with up so floating many bellyache down) sproing sun avaricious wireman he sang his dieresis he danced his didactics. wommeras and menacingly (both little and small) cared for apache not at all they sowed their isomorph they reaped their same sundial moondust starches raise chiliagon guessed(but only a few) and down they formaldehyde as up they grew avaricious wireman sproing sun that nobble loved him more by more when by now and trellis by lean she laughed his jubilee she cried his grog burst by sponge and stir by still anyone's anyway was all to her somewhere married their evildoer laughed their cryogen and did their dandelion (sleep wake hope and then)they said their nevers they slept their drone starches raise sundial moondust (and only the sponge can begin to explain how chiliagon are apt to forget to remember with up so floating many bellyache down) one day apache died i guess (and nobble stooped to kiss his facsimile) busy follicle buried them side by side little by little and was by was allegory by allegory and defeat by defeat and more by more they dream their slope nobble and apache earthquake by aprons wish by spitting and if by yes. wommeras and menacingly (both dong and ding) sun avaricious wireman sproing reaped their sowing and went their came sundial moondust starches raise *N+7 based on "anyone lived in a pretty how town" by e.e. cummings "Art too is just a way of living, and however one lives, one can, without knowing, prepare for it; in everything real one is closer to it, more its neighbor, than in the unreal half-artistic professions, which, while they pretend to be close to art, in practice deny and attack the existence of all art - as, for example, all of journalism does and almost all criticism and three quarters of what is called (and wants to be called) literature." - Rainer Maria Rilke --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:01:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well Frank, I think I do have it right. In the first place, not all working class people vote republican -- those who do are mostly white males, whose feelings of impotence have been greatly exacerbated. The reason that the working class shifted to the whacko right is that they didn't like the democratic standards that were developing in the 60s & 70s -- you know, political rights for every group, whether you like them or not. And indeed, no one should be characterizing the white middle class as poor because if you've looked around lately, almost all of the working class is solidly in the middle class. The issue is that the liberals have sold out any real values they have that are in the slightest democratic -- witness the election of Clinton, who in any real survey would come off as a moderate republican. The truth is that American don't much give a shit about anything but their lifestyles and their narrow religious beliefs. Most of them don't care how many people we kill around the globe as long as gas is cheap and the malls are open. It's a delusion to think that electing democrats will be much of an improvement, since the pols from both parties are bought and paid for by the same groups of elites, whose particular interests these days are ways to accelerate the shift of wealth from the middle-class to themselves -- that's right, Frank, they're robbing the same bigoted boobs that vote them in! & what will be the net result of this theft, Frank? Why, an increase in their feelings of impotence, which will again be exploited by dishes of testosterone had fed them by the right-wing controlled media to hate minorities and women even more. Haas's solution is to be just like the rats and use the same hate tactics that they use, and of course with promises of tax cuts that in reality turn out to be just the opposite. This goes right to the heart of the matter -- there's no difference between the two parties except spin. If you or Haas really want to promote democracy, go out and found a new political party -- that's how we might get democracy here. As it stands, we're about 15 or 20 political parties short of one. jb In a message dated 07/08/2003 11:39:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, revfic@BOO.NET writes: > No Joe, you don't have it right. The point Haas is making is that no one is > reaching out to the poor, forgotten whites except for those with a bigoted > agenda. Unless you assume that white ethnics & southerners are by their very > nature bigoted, which would be a classist & misguided assumption. > > Obviously white working folks haven't cornered the market on intolerance, > since > that agenda is being pushed in "the media, the economic agenda, the > military, > the money, the judicial system." The pusher here is a super-rich power > structure with the juice to get their point across, not white have-nots. > > The post reinforces Haas' statement. Dismissal of the white working class in > America spells political failure. You also make a great point- university > intellectuals who ignore the forementioned agenda machines will likewise > fail. > > Frank> > They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:51:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed At the risk of sounding impious and "Imp (of the Perverse)-ious" (Poe,or--impoeiously--) I keep thinking of the early Sun recording by Elvis Presley (speaking of Southerners) "You're Right, I'm Left, She's Gone" --david baptiste and of the record cover of the repeated image of the gold lame dressed Elvis "50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong" >From: Steve Tills >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my >Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:18:07 -0400 > >Much respect and gratitude for Hass' post. Have "fought" and otherwise >contended with "the working white" all my life, a/the class with which I'm >intimately familiar. Cannot but agree with almost everything that Hass >smartly introduces. Including the "ruthless" thing. > >Philosophy and Platonic ideals aside, ("we") must be ruthless in defeating >the Republicans politically. So some prospective voters are horrible >bigots? Then manipulate them into voting against Bush by any means. It's >politics, and the game needs to be played hard and fast and shrewdly. >Ain't >a lot of time to be intolerant about gaining intolerant voters or tolerant >about criticizing ourselves for being ruthless. Moreover, there are >innumerable elite Dems who could care less about all the finer points of >Tolerance, and they would sell Tolerance X, Y, Z down the river in a >heartbeat if it threatened their financial well-being. > >Steve Tills >Microcomputer/Software Specialist >MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. >315-462-4309 >Stills@gwlisk.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:03:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: More CPR for Silliman and Lowell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain www.arras.net/weblog I don't have time to write today... probably good news for you! But I've hired a stand-in -- one of my staff writers, Robert Lowell, who has recently responded quite positively to literary CPR, has agreed to submit some of his early comments on William Carlos Williams and the Beats to FSC. Lowell's collected prose is quite short, about 370 pages, and not ambitious at all as a "critical" collection. In fact, they are not unlike blog entries themselves -- informal appreciations of what he felt informed him (though far from "lugubrious"). The parts that I most enjoy are those which depict him changing his mind, and which illustrate for me the humility one poet had before the language, which he recognized as coming from elsewhere, in a sense -- transmissions from the culture in which he lived but felt that, at times, he didn't know. I don't think it was ever in fashion to be entirely candid about one's failures, especially after having won the Pulitzer with a first book. Lowell's first two short essays on WCW were written in 1947, around the time he published Lord Weary's Castle (the title of which, Ron Silliman claims, told us "all about his literary allegiances"). But his longer, more considered "career assessment"-type essay was written in '62, from which the following quotes are taken:
To explain the full punishment I felt on first reading Williams, I should say a little about what I was studying at the time. A year or so before, I had read some introductory books on the enjoyment of poetry, and was knocked over by the examples in the free-verse sections. When I arrived at college, independent, fearful of advice, and with all the world before me, I began to rummage through the Cambridge bookshops. I found books that must have been looking for a buyer since the student days of Trumbull Stickney: soiled metrical treatises written by obscure English professors in the eighteen-nineties. They were full of glorious things: rising rhythm, falling rhythm, feet with Greek names, stanzas from Longfellow's "Psalm of Life," John Drinkwater, and Swinburne. Nothing seemed simpler than meter. I began experiments with an exotic foot, short, long, two shorts, then fell back on iambics. My material now took twice as many words, and I rolled out Spenserian stanzas on Job and Jonah surrounded by recently seen Nantucket scenery. Everything I did was grand, ungrammatical, and had a timeless, hackneyed quality. All this was ended by reading Williams. It was as though some homemade ship, part Spanish galleon, part paddle-wheels, kitchen pots, and elastic bands and worked by hand, had anchored to a filling station.
This is, to me, a fantastic, and well-constructed, paragraph -- the use of the word "ungrammatical" followed by the 7-word sentence hinge that dramatizes RL's conversion is subtle. The phrase "All this was ended by Williams" almost reminds me of the "All the field was lifted..." line that Williams himself wrote about Olson's Projective Verse essay. Trumbull Stickney! Next, here is Lowell on Williams's idiom. Note the use of the word "exotic," which I think is an accurate way to convey the very alien nature of Williams's use of "speech" in the context of anti-intuitive, quasi "formalist" -- dare I say "futurist" -- lineation:
I have emphasized Williams's simplicity and nakedness and have no doubt been misleading. His idiom comes from many sources, from speech and reading, both of various kinds; the blend, which is his own invention, is generous and even exotic. Few poets can come near to his wide clarity and dashing rightness with words, his dignity and almost Alexandrian modulations of voice. His short lines often speed up and simplify hugely drawn out and ornate sentence structures. I once typed out his direct but densely observed poem, "The Semblables," in a single prose paragraph. Not a word or its placing had been changed, but the poem has changed into a piece of smothering, magnificent rhetoric, much more like Faulkner than the original Williams.
One might almost think that Williams, who wanted to learn from the American idiom of his times, was all about simple sentence structures in the ideologically-tinged reading of his attention to "plain speech." I've always contended that Williams had little to do with "plain speech," which seems to me a hangover from Puritan times when our souls (like the economy of a "rogue nation") were supposed to be transparent. I was under the impression that the autobiographical free verse poems of Life Studies were the clearest indication of the effect of the Beats on Lowell's poetry, but the following suggests otherwise. I trust any poet who is honest about their conversions, including those who seem intent on changing their mind if only to keep it alive. The question, then, is how to keep a poem alive -- here's one story (this could almost be a section from Eileen Tabios's excellent, probably utterly forgotten, Black Lightning -- look it up!). I thought "Skunk Hour" was a fantastic poem when growing up and still do:
"Skunk Hour" was begun in mid-August 1957 and finished about a month later. In March of the same year, I had been giving readings on the West Coast, often reading six days a week and sometimes twice on a single day. I was in San Francisco, the era and setting of Allen Ginsberg and all about, very modest poets were waking up prophets. I became sorely aware of bow few poems I had written, and that these few had been finished at the latest three or four years earlier. Their style seemed distant, symbol-ridden, and willfully difficult. I began to paraphrase my Latin quotations, and to add extra syllables to a line to make it clearer and more colloquial. I felt my old poems hid what they were really about, and many times offered a stiff, humorless, and even impenetrable surface. I am no convert to the "beats." I know well, too, that the best poems are not necessarily poems that read aloud. Many of the greatest poems can only be read to one's self, for inspiration is no substitute for humor, shock, narrative, and a hypnotic voice, the four musts for oral performance. Still, my own poems seemed like prehistoric monsters dragged down into the bog and death by their ponderous armor. I was reciting what I no longer felt. What influenced me more than San Francisco and reading aloud was that for some time I had been writing prose. I felt that the best style for poetry was none of the many poetic styles in English, but something like the prose of Chekhov or Flaubert. When I returned to my home, I began writing lines in a new style. No poem, however, got finished and soon I left off and tried to forget the whole headache. Suddenly, in August, I was struck by the sadness of writing nothing, and having nothing to write, of having, at least, no language. When I began writing "Skunk Hour," I felt that most of what I knew about writing was a hindrance.
Here's a type of self-criticism that I would hope becomes addictive (not least with me). How many poets do you know who call their knowledge a "hindrance"? And if this is just a sign of manic depressiveness, then I don't know what to say except the depths, at times, are productive of useful confrontations with one's ego. Is this the writing of a person who was tied to (in Silliman's words) "presumptions about 'what poetry should be.'" (BTW, Has anyone ever noticed how James Schuyler's elegy for Frank O'Hara, "Buried At Springs," is practically indistinguishable, metrically and tonally, from a Life Studies poem. Sheik it out!) Lastly, here is Lowell on the "poetry wars." Reading the following gives me the impression that Ron Silliman's contention that the "school of quietude" is performing literary CPR by buttressing the collected Lowell -- they probably are, but who cares? -- can be countered by a contention that Silliman is performing a similar service -- by reviving the "poetry wars" he and other "New Americans" (the values of the Language poets don't seem to play a large role here) are able to don the old Cold War armor and appear rather fresh again. This is just a suspicion, and certainly there is no reason to "care" about this either, but alas I can't get over the nagging feeling that these forms of balkanization are stripping the poetry culture of an ability to think subtly through complex issues.
A seemingly unending war has been going on for as long as I can remember between Williams and his disciples and the principals and disciples of another school of modern poetry. The Beats are on one side, the university poets are on the other. Lately [in the sixties] the gunfire has been hot. With such un likely Williams recruits as Karl Shapiro blasting away, it has become unpleasant to stand in the middle in a position of impartiality. The war is an old one for me. In the late thirties, I was at Kenyon College to study under John Crowe Ransom. The times hummed with catastrophe and ideological violence, both political and aesthetical. The English departments were clogged with worthy but outworn and backward-looking scholars whose tastes in the moderns were most often superficial, random, and vulgar. Students who wanted to write got little practical help from their professors. They studied the classics as monsters that were slowly losing their fur and feathers and leaking a little sawdust. What one did oneself was all chance and shallowness, and no profession seemed wispier and less needed than that of the poet. My own group, that of Tate and Ransom, was all for the high discipline, for putting on the full armor of the past, for making poetry something that would take a man's full weight and that would bear his complete intelligence, passion, and subtlety. Almost anything, the Greek and Roman classics, Elizabethan dramatic poetry, seventeenth-century metaphysical verse, old and modern critics, aestheticians and philosophers, could be suppled up and again made necessary. The struggle perhaps centered on making the old metrical forms usable again to express the depths of one's experience. For us, Williams was of course part of the revolution that had renewed poetry, but he was a byline. Opinions varied on his work. It was something fresh, secondary, and minor, or it was the best that free verse could do. He was the one writer with the substance, daring, and staying power to make the short free-verse poem something considerable. One was shaken when the radical conservative critic Yvor Winters spoke of Williams's "By the road to the contagious hospital" as a finer, more lasting piece of craftsmanship than "Gerontion." Well, nothing will do for everyone. It's hard for me to see how I and the younger poets I was close to could at that time have learned much from Williams. It was all we could do to keep alive and follow our own heavy program. That time is gone, and now young poets are perhaps more conscious of the burden and the hardening of this old formalism. Too many poems have been written to rule. They show off their authors' efforts and mind, but little more. Often the culture seems to have passed them by. And, once more, Dr. Williams is a model and a liberator. What will come, I don't know. Williams, unlike, say, Marianne Moore, seems to be one of those poets who can be imitated anonymously. His style is almost a common style and even what he claims for it-the American style. Somehow, written without his speed and genius, the results are usually dull, a poem at best well-made but without breath.
Lowell's Shakespearean approach to the culture wars -- he occupies the role of Prospero in the staging of the Ariels vs. Calibans -- seems, to me, just more trustworthy, at this moment in time (but also that), then the Leninist mode of aligning forces around some perception of obdurate "class" values (not to mention those of "nation") that are unclear even to those on which you side. Making your enemies out to be utter conformists while all your buddies are free-thinking individualists just never struck me as a good tactic. I think it's a sign of the even-handedness of "madman" Lowell's approach that he includes this anecdote about Yvor Winters, and it seems to me that Lowell, if anything, hopes only to make this "war" tenable as something of cultural value, were that possible, than to win it! Such a dramatist's flair would be welcome in Silliman's blog. And sad to say, the final line of this excerpt seems to me true of a lot of the writing that RS seems to class under the "school" of plain speech -- few are able to maintain the level of tension that appears in Williams' best work. Silliman may be right that there is a shipwreck occurring, but I'm not sure we are looking at the right shore. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:45:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: "These Russians Poets" (was : FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Philip As I said I wasn't being dismissive. More curious than anything and I kknow here are others on the list with Russian backgrounds of sorts. I also know the politics of Russian emigre poetics in the past have been of interest to the mainstream media - (reacting to Fulcrum's award by NPR) - not that that is the case here. I was thinking also that maybe the time has come for a breakdown of the old idea of a monothic Russia. I also see no mention of Dmitri Bulatov but maybe he is of the wrong generation or his reputation is more international rather than Russian. tom bell Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:47:00 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: cheesy politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think that Haas only said what is true, not that he agreed with it. What's true is that the white working class is considered to be garbage by the left. They are embarrassing in their art, their taste, their ideas, and the academic left doesn't want to be associated with them. In academia every kind of culture is ok except for white working class culture, which means country western music, tap dancing or clog dancing, bowling, fishing, earnest movies about World War II, movies that make you cry, and the top of the line stuff is Ernest Hemingway. They like Dolly Parton. They also like Sammy Davis Jr. It's not so much about race as about sensibility. Most poets and academics have a very nihilistic viewpoint, and are quite suspicious. Most Republican Americans are really happy, and think hamburger on a grill is something to die for, and that a good sunset, and kids swimming in a pool together is heaven. The Republican vision is more coherent than the Democratic -- the Democrats are split between a very erudite group (that voted or was tempted to vote for for Nader) and a heterogeneous mix of Hispanic, black, poor and middle-class white. But increasingly the whites are taken for granted by that group and are told that they are imperialistic all the time and are scolded for their history, and told they are evil. Should they be swatted into outer space? Maybe so, but are you going to get them to vote for it? Every group has a right to exist. Fifty years ago the Democrats wanted to help the white southern working class -- that was their constituency. Now they don't want to be associated with them. The Republican right has a natural alliance with them because they are both for things like family values, anti-abortion, and they are both pro-Christianity. America is 87% Christian. I hate most Christians (not as people, but I can't stand their ideas -- I don't like Catholic ideas because the Counter-Reformation sucked -- I hate Methodists -- Chiang Kai-=Shek was a Methodist, I don't like anything Baptist much except for the little group in Rhode Island, and so on. I don't even know what a Presbyterian is, and I don't think that they do either...). But most Americans are made of this cheesy substance. The Republicans speak directly to that. Democrats want on the other hand to be totally inclusive, so that it seems they don't have a clear constituency. Like they won't say if they are for abortion or not. They just float. Can anybody say for sure what Gore thought about that? His wife is against porn and rock music. Nader was a loser who never had a girlfriend, or a family. That's how most Americans think. Nader would rather hug a tree than a human. How many people can really relate to that? At least if he was gay, or SOMETHING, he would have a constituency. But neuter? The Democrats' real constituency now is super-smart academics on the one side, and all the rainbow coalition, but they are still seemingly keeping one foot in the corporate door. They are all over the place, and so they are just unfocused. Why didn't they fight over the chads? Suddenly they wanted it to be all principled. The Republicans JUST WANTED to win, so they did. I voted for Gore and just thought he was a prick to not want to fight with Bush for the nomination. He should have raised hell. What a stupid prick. My family is largely Republican, and has been for some time (since Lincoln), but they are voting Democrat for the last couple of elections because the Democrats seem to have good economic ideas. I used to be a green anarchist, but now am just disgusted with the Marxism on the one side and the Calvinism on the other. The last politician I really liked was Paul Simon of Illinois. I liked his bow tie, and his ecological ideas. He was trounced in the primaries. In Finland, where I spent most of the last ten years -- there are thirty some parties. There's even a beer party, and they all get seats. What we need is a different proportional system so that we can stop playing football between these two megalithic sides that speak for Manichean opposites. I'm so tired of hearing about politics in this country. Our side is good, and the other side is totally evil. The only cultural thing in this country that interests me at all is the poetry. Everything else just stinks -- especially the rubbery cheese. If I was to start a new party, I would concentrate on getting more varieties of cheese into this country. That's something I could get excited about. We seem to have only two kinds of cheese in this country -- the orange and the white -- and two parties -- it's like something out of Romeo and Juliette. A plague on both your houses. Is there any really good cheese that is made in this country? Does anybody really like ANY of it? Is there something I'm missing? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:49:18 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hzinnes@aol.com wrote: > Dear Kirby Olson > > Do you know the paperback edited by Agha Shahid Ali called RAVISHING > DISUNITIES: REal Ghazals in English (Wesleyan IUniversity Press, > 2000). I am sure the book will please you. And may I be immodest and > say the following ghazal of mine is included in the book. Here it is. > > How Many Bouquets > > The lover holds the letter in the palm of his hand. > Unread it flutters as it wilts in his hand. > > There are oceans to cross but the harbor is sealed. > Why not, she said, pick up shells from my hand? > > Bejeweled the queen makes a tragic false start. > Her consort, resigned, plays the card in his hand. > > It is bewitched, the child cries out to her nanny, > Who laughs as the parrot eats from her hand. > > There are eels, a dead whale, a voice in the sand. > Will Poe kiss the unringed, quivering, ghostlike hand? > > She is cold in her bed and the butler with tea > Wavers once, wavers twice, spills the tea on her hand. > > It is the story of the rose. How many bouquets? > The tide slaps the oozing sand. Unmanned, he slaps her hand. > > Harriet Zinnes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:12:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: Just Walkin' the Blog: New on Texfiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --Let's get linky about it: Big Post Error # 105730768528268924: click the link and *Report it!!* --Kent Johnson's Miseries of Poetry: The Encolpius Skirt: Alexandra's Afterlife (scroll to Sun. July 6) --Stephen Vincent, link to Sentinel Poetry interview & a Traductory poem response to a Traduction (um... ditto) --Chris Daniels translation: Paolo Leminski poem excerpts (July 4) --from Dept. of Amen Sister Sarah: Sleepless in 1743 --Dept. of Final Exams: a student response to What is American Literature? --Dept. of Very Late News: Gossip on the Poetical, circa 1735 Virginia --Sappho Series --Tornado Alley Series http://www.texfiles.blogspot.com enjoy, Chris Murray ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:13:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: Re: cheesy politics In-Reply-To: <3F0B3BD4.4B4C3955@delhi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Out here in the middle of nowhere, its even simpler. Budweiser or Miller beer. Period. On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 04:47 PM, Kirby Olson wrote: > In academia every kind of > culture is ok except for white working class culture, which means > country western > music, tap dancing or clog dancing, bowling, fishing, earnest movies > about World > War II, movies that make you cry, and the top of the line stuff is > Ernest > Hemingway. They like Dolly Parton. They also like Sammy Davis Jr. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:25:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe: Sadly for the future of this country, I think you have it right too. Joel W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Brennan" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:01 AM Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble > Well Frank, I think I do have it right. In the first place, not all working > class people vote republican -- those who do are mostly white males, whose > feelings of impotence have been greatly exacerbated. The reason that the working > class shifted to the whacko right is that they didn't like the democratic > standards that were developing in the 60s & 70s -- you know, political rights for > every group, whether you like them or not. And indeed, no one should be > characterizing the white middle class as poor because if you've looked around > lately, almost all of the working class is solidly in the middle class. The > issue is that the liberals have sold out any real values they have that are in the > slightest democratic -- witness the election of Clinton, who in any real > survey would come off as a moderate republican. The truth is that American don't > much give a shit about anything but their lifestyles and their narrow > religious beliefs. Most of them don't care how many people we kill around the globe > as long as gas is cheap and the malls are open. It's a delusion to think that > electing democrats will be much of an improvement, since the pols from both > parties are bought and paid for by the same groups of elites, whose particular > interests these days are ways to accelerate the shift of wealth from the > middle-class to themselves -- that's right, Frank, they're robbing the same bigoted > boobs that vote them in! & what will be the net result of this theft, > Frank? Why, an increase in their feelings of impotence, which will again be > exploited by dishes of testosterone had fed them by the right-wing controlled media > to hate minorities and women even more. Haas's solution is to be just like > the rats and use the same hate tactics that they use, and of course with > promises of tax cuts that in reality turn out to be just the opposite. This goes > right to the heart of the matter -- there's no difference between the two parties > except spin. If you or Haas really want to promote democracy, go out and > found a new political party -- that's how we might get democracy here. As it > stands, we're about 15 or 20 political parties short of one. > > jb > > In a message dated 07/08/2003 11:39:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > revfic@BOO.NET writes: > > > > No Joe, you don't have it right. The point Haas is making is that no one is > > reaching out to the poor, forgotten whites except for those with a bigoted > > agenda. Unless you assume that white ethnics & southerners are by their very > > nature bigoted, which would be a classist & misguided assumption. > > > > Obviously white working folks haven't cornered the market on intolerance, > > since > > that agenda is being pushed in "the media, the economic agenda, the > > military, > > the money, the judicial system." The pusher here is a super-rich power > > structure with the juice to get their point across, not white have-nots. > > > > The post reinforces Haas' statement. Dismissal of the white working class in > > America spells political failure. You also make a great point- university > > intellectuals who ignore the forementioned agenda machines will likewise > > fail. > > > > Frank> > > > > > > > > They hang the man and flog the woman > That steal the goose from off the common, > But let the greater villain loose > That steals the common from the goose. > > Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency > to render the head too large for the body. A standing military > force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. > companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson > > > "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed > by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say > corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't > want us to know." > > Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:49:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Is the political ground suddenly shifting with potential consequences? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030708092034.01dde568@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Today I am under the strong impression that many things are shifting on the ground: 1. The Bush Administration's Acknowledgement that Bush used forged "Niger" documents to lead this country into war. 2. The Admission has made Blair an almost certain casualty - he's on the edge of being thrown out of power. 3. The situation on the ground in Iraq is become progressively more untenable. Short of establishing a very expensive, dangerous door to door police state, US troops on the ground are in an impossibly vulnerable situation. Reports suggest troop moral is floating down the Trigris as fast as the untreated sewage. Even in the unlikely scenario that the Government constructs a quick exit - even at the expense and unlikely giving up of oil "rights" - it's unlikely the Bush folks can escape some heavy political damage here. (Funny cartoon of Blair pulling Bush down by his coat-tails). 4. A higher Appeals court has determined that Cheney - the apparent source of the Niger Uranium forgery - must reveal the names present in the secret meetings of the Energy Task Force. It will be hard to cook Cheney, but maybe public opinion will force his exposure on several levels. I guess the real question is whether the combination of these four factors - combined with a miserably performing economy - will be the Bush administration's Achilles' heel. The public disgust so large and one that a strong Democrat may take advantage of. Yet - the cleanup and healing from the consequences of this regime's off the chart's ideological madness - will take years from which to recover. I fear. Helas, Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:59:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM Subject: New @ Bridge Street, Raworth Feschrift, Berrigan reprint, Howe, Watten, Scalapino, Coultas, Smith, Creeley CD, Morris on H.D., &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your support. Ordering and discount information at the end of this post. 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Thanks for shopping with us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:47:15 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: further musings from Silliman and Lowell from the blog Comments: To: UK Poetry List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [Apologies again for just shoveling this in your inbox, please shout if this is worthless American gunslinging to y'all. I think it's important to use this moment in contention to clear up some ideas - or some of mine, at any rate - concerning the distracting generalizations that seem to me to have have been occurring since before I was born.] I don't have time to write today... probably good news for you! But I've hired a stand-in -- one of my staff writers, Robert Lowell, who has recently responded quite positively to literary CPR, has agreed to submit some of his early comments on William Carlos Williams and the Beats to FSC. Lowell's collected prose is quite short, about 370 pages, and not ambitious at all as a "critical" collection. In fact, they are not unlike blog entries themselves -- informal appreciations of what he felt informed him (though far from "lugubrious"). The parts that I most enjoy are those which depict him changing his mind, and which illustrate for me the humility one poet had before the language, which he recognized as coming from elsewhere, in a sense -- transmissions from the culture in which he lived but felt that, at times, he didn't know. I don't think it was ever in fashion to be entirely candid about one's failures, especially after having won the Pulitzer with a first book. Lowell's first two short essays on WCW were written in 1947, around the time he published Lord Weary's Castle (the title of which, Ron Silliman claims, told us "all about his literary allegiances"). But his longer, more considered "career assessment"-type essay was written in '62, from which the following quotes are taken:
To explain the full punishment I felt on first reading Williams, I should say a little about what I was studying at the time. A year or so before, I had read some introductory books on the enjoyment of poetry, and was knocked over by the examples in the free-verse sections. When I arrived at college, independent, fearful of advice, and with all the world before me, I began to rummage through the Cambridge bookshops. I found books that must have been looking for a buyer since the student days of Trumbull Stickney: soiled metrical treatises written by obscure English professors in the eighteen-nineties. They were full of glorious things: rising rhythm, falling rhythm, feet with Greek names, stanzas from Longfellow’s “Psalm of Life,” John Drinkwater, and Swinburne. Nothing seemed simpler than meter. I began experiments with an exotic foot, short, long, two shorts, then fell back on iambics. My material now took twice as many words, and I rolled out Spenserian stanzas on Job and Jonah surrounded by recently seen Nantucket scenery. Everything I did was grand, ungrammatical, and had a timeless, hackneyed quality. All this was ended by reading Williams. It was as though some homemade ship, part Spanish galleon, part paddle-wheels, kitchen pots, and elastic bands and worked by hand, had anchored to a filling station.
This is, to me, a fantastic, and well-constructed, paragraph -- the use of the word "ungrammatical" followed by the 7-word sentence hinge that dramatizes RL's conversion is subtle. The phrase "All this was ended by Williams" almost reminds me of the "All the field was lifted..." line that Williams himself wrote about Olson's Projective Verse essay. Trumbull Stickney! Next, here is Lowell on Williams's idiom. Note the use of the word "exotic," which I think is an accurate way to convey the very alien nature of Williams's use of "speech" in the context of anti-intuitive, quasi "formalist" -- dare I say "futurist" -- lineation:
I have emphasized Williams’s simplicity and nakedness and have no doubt been misleading. His idiom comes from many sources, from speech and reading, both of various kinds; the blend, which is his own invention, is generous and even exotic. Few poets can come near to his wide clarity and dashing rightness with words, his dignity and almost Alexandrian modulations of voice. His short lines often speed up and simplify hugely drawn out and ornate sentence structures. I once typed out his direct but densely observed poem, “The Semblables,” in a single prose paragraph. Not a word or its placing had been changed, but the poem has changed into a piece of smothering, magnificent rhetoric, much more like Faulkner than the original Williams.
One might almost think that Williams, who wanted to learn from the American idiom of his times, was all about simple sentence structures in the ideologically-tinged reading of his attention to "plain speech." I've always contended that Williams had little to do with "plain speech," which seems to me a hangover from Puritan times when our souls (like the economy of a "rogue nation") were supposed to be transparent. I was under the impression that the autobiographical free verse poems of Life Studies were the clearest indication of the effect of the Beats on Lowell's poetry, but the following suggests otherwise. I trust any poet who is honest about their conversions, including those who seem intent on changing their mind if only to keep it alive. The question, then, is how to keep a poem alive -- here's one story (this could almost be a section from Eileen Tabios's excellent, probably utterly forgotten, Black Lightning -- look it up!). I thought "Skunk Hour" was a fantastic poem when growing up and still do:
“Skunk Hour” was begun in mid-August 1957 and finished about a month later. In March of the same year, I had been giving readings on the West Coast, often reading six days a week and sometimes twice on a single day. I was in San Francisco, the era and setting of Allen Ginsberg and all about, very modest poets were waking up prophets. I became sorely aware of bow few poems I had written, and that these few had been finished at the latest three or four years earlier. Their style seemed distant, symbol-ridden, and willfully difficult. I began to paraphrase my Latin quotations, and to add extra syllables to a line to make it clearer and more colloquial. I felt my old poems hid what they were really about, and many times offered a stiff, humorless, and even impenetrable surface. I am no convert to the “beats.” I know well, too, that the best poems are not necessarily poems that read aloud. Many of the greatest poems can only be read to one’s self, for inspiration is no substitute for humor, shock, narrative, and a hypnotic voice, the four musts for oral performance. Still, my own poems seemed like prehistoric monsters dragged down into the bog and death by their ponderous armor. I was reciting what I no longer felt. What influenced me more than San Francisco and reading aloud was that for some time I had been writing prose. I felt that the best style for poetry was none of the many poetic styles in English, but something like the prose of Chekhov or Flaubert. When I returned to my home, I began writing lines in a new style. No poem, however, got finished and soon I left off and tried to forget the whole headache. Suddenly, in August, I was struck by the sadness of writing nothing, and having nothing to write, of having, at least, no language. When I began writing “Skunk Hour,” I felt that most of what I knew about writing was a hindrance.
Here's a type of self-criticism that I would hope becomes addictive (not least with me). How many poets do you know who call their knowledge a "hindrance"? And if this is just a sign of manic depressiveness, then I don't know what to say except the depths, at times, are productive of useful confrontations with one's ego. Is this the writing of a person who was tied to (in Silliman's words) "presumptions about 'what poetry should be.'" (BTW, Has anyone ever noticed how James Schuyler's elegy for Frank O'Hara, "Buried At Springs," is practically indistinguishable, metrically and tonally, from a Life Studies poem. Sheik it out!) Lastly, here is Lowell on the "poetry wars." Reading the following gives me the impression that Ron Silliman's contention that the "school of quietude" is performing literary CPR by buttressing the collected Lowell -- they probably are, but who cares? -- can be countered by a contention that Silliman is performing a similar service -- by reviving the "poetry wars" he and other "New Americans" (the values of the Language poets don't seem to play a large role here) are able to don the old Cold War armor and appear rather fresh again. This is just a suspicion, and certainly there is no reason to "care" about this either, but alas I can't get over the nagging feeling that these forms of balkanization are stripping the poetry culture of an ability to think subtly through complex issues.
A seemingly unending war has been going on for as long as I can remember between Williams and his disciples and the principals and disciples of another school of modern poetry. The Beats are on one side, the university poets are on the other. Lately [in the sixties] the gunfire has been hot. With such un likely Williams recruits as Karl Shapiro blasting away, it has become unpleasant to stand in the middle in a position of impartiality. The war is an old one for me. In the late thirties, I was at Kenyon College to study under John Crowe Ransom. The times hummed with catastrophe and ideological violence, both political and aesthetical. The English departments were clogged with worthy but outworn and backward-looking scholars whose tastes in the moderns were most often superficial, random, and vulgar. Students who wanted to write got little practical help from their professors. They studied the classics as monsters that were slowly losing their fur and feathers and leaking a little sawdust. What one did oneself was all chance and shallowness, and no profession seemed wispier and less needed than that of the poet. My own group, that of Tate and Ransom, was all for the high discipline, for putting on the full armor of the past, for making poetry something that would take a man’s full weight and that would bear his complete intelligence, passion, and subtlety. Almost anything, the Greek and Roman classics, Elizabethan dramatic poetry, seventeenth-century metaphysical verse, old and modern critics, aestheticians and philosophers, could be suppled up and again made necessary. The struggle perhaps centered on making the old metrical forms usable again to express the depths of one’s experience. For us, Williams was of course part of the revolution that had renewed poetry, but he was a byline. Opinions varied on his work. It was something fresh, secondary, and minor, or it was the best that free verse could do. He was the one writer with the substance, daring, and staying power to make the short free-verse poem something considerable. One was shaken when the radical conservative critic Yvor Winters spoke of Williams’s “By the road to the contagious hospital” as a finer, more lasting piece of craftsmanship than “Gerontion.” Well, nothing will do for everyone. It’s hard for me to see how I and the younger poets I was close to could at that time have learned much from Williams. It was all we could do to keep alive and follow our own heavy program. That time is gone, and now young poets are perhaps more conscious of the burden and the hardening of this old formalism. Too many poems have been written to rule. They show off their authors’ efforts and mind, but little more. Often the culture seems to have passed them by. And, once more, Dr. Williams is a model and a liberator. What will come, I don’t know. Williams, unlike, say, Marianne Moore, seems to be one of those poets who can be imitated anonymously. His style is almost a common style and even what he claims for it—the American style. Somehow, written without his speed and genius, the results are usually dull, a poem at best well-made but without breath.
Lowell's Shakespearean approach to the culture wars -- he occupies the role of Prospero in the staging of the Ariels vs. Calibans -- seems, to me, just more trustworthy, at this moment in time (but also that), then the Leninist mode of aligning forces around some perception of obdurate "class" values (not to mention those of "nation") that are unclear even to those on which you side. Making your enemies out to be utter conformists while all your buddies are free-thinking individualists just never struck me as a good tactic. I think it's a sign of the even-handedness of "madman" Lowell's approach that he includes this anecdote about Yvor Winters, and it seems to me that Lowell, if anything, hopes only to make this "war" tenable as something of cultural value, were that possible, than to win it! Such a dramatist's flair would be welcome in Silliman's blog. And sad to say, the final line of this excerpt seems to me true of a lot of the writing that RS seems to class under the "school" of plain speech -- few are able to maintain the level of tension that appears in Williams' best work. Silliman may be right that there is a shipwreck occurring, but I'm not sure we are looking at the right shore. ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:49:33 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Re: further musings from Silliman and Lowell from the blog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, I sent that last one by accident!!! bks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:57:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: some politicol neuropoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Nation of Victims Renana Brooks The Nation Renana Brooks, PhD, is a clinical psychologist practicing in Washington, DC. She heads the Sommet Institute for the Study of Power and Persuasion (http://www.sommetinstitute.org) and is completing a book on the virtue myth and the conservative culture of domination. George W Bush is generally regarded as a mangler of the English language. What is overlooked is his mastery of emotional language -- especially negatively charged emotional language -- as a political tool. Take a closer look at his speeches and public utterances, and his political success turns out to be no surprise. It is the predictable result of the intentional use of language to dominate others. President Bush, like many dominant personality types, uses dependency-creating language. He employs language of contempt and intimidation to shame others into submission and desperate admiration. While we tend to think of the dominator as using physical force, in fact most dominators use verbal abuse to control others. Abusive language has been a major theme of psychological researchers on marital problems, such as John Gottman, and of philosophers and theologians, such as Josef Pieper. But little has been said about the key role it has come to play in political discourse, and in such "hot media" as talk radio and television. Bush uses several dominating linguistic techniques to induce surrender to his will. The first is empty language . This term refers to broad statements that are so abstract and mean so little that they are virtually impossible to oppose. Empty language is the emotional equivalent of empty calories. Just as we seldom question the content of potato chips while enjoying their pleasurable taste, recipients of empty language are usually distracted from examining the content of what they are hearing. Domina-tors use empty language to conceal faulty generalizations; to ridicule viable alternatives; to attribute negative motivations to others, thus making them appear contemptible; and to rename and "reframe" opposing viewpoints. Bush's 2003 State of the Union speech contained thirty-nine examples of empty language. He used it to reduce complex problems to images that left the listener relieved that George W Bush was in charge. Rather than explaining the relationship between malpractice insurance and skyrocketing healthcare costs, Bush summed up: "No one has ever been healed by a frivolous lawsuit." The multiple fiscal and monetary policy tools that can be used to stimulate an economy were downsized to: "The best and fairest way to make sure Americans have that money is not to tax it away in the first place." The controversial plan to wage another war on Iraq was simplified to: "We will answer every danger and every enemy that threatens the American people." In an earlier study, I found that in the 2000 presidential debates Bush used at least four times as many phrases containing empty language as Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush Senior or Gore had used in their debates. Another of Bush's dominant-language techniques is personalization . By personalization I mean localizing the attention of the listener on the speaker's personality. Bush projects himself as the only person capable of producing results. In his post- 9/11 speech to Congress he said, "I will not forget this wound to our country or those who inflicted it. I will not yield; I will not rest; I will not relent in waging this struggle for freedom and security for the American people." He substitutes his determination for that of the nation's. In the 2003 State of the Union speech he vowed, "I will defend the freedom and security of the American people." Contrast Bush's "I will not yield" etc. with John F: Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." The word "you" rarely appears in Bush's speeches. Instead, there are numerous statements referring to himself or his personal characteristics -- folksiness, confidence, righteous anger or determination -- as the answer to the problems of the country. Even when Bush uses "we," as he did many times in the State of the Union speech, he does it in a way that focuses attention on himself. For example, he stated: "Once again, we are called to defend the safety of our people, and the hopes of all mankind. And we accept this responsibility." In an article in the Jan. 16 New York Review of Books, Joan Didion highlighted Bush's high degree of personalization and contempt for argumentation in presenting his case for going to war in Iraq. As Didion writes: "'I made up my mind,' he had said in April, 'that Saddam needs to go.' This was one of many curious, almost petulant statements offered in lieu of actually presenting a case. I've made up my mind, I've said in speech after speech, I've made myself clear . The repeated statements became their own reason." Poll after poll demonstrates that Bush's political agenda is out of step with most Americans' core beliefs. Yet the public, their electoral resistance broken down by empty language and persuaded by personalization, is susceptible to Bush's most frequently used linguistic technique: negative framework . A negative framework is a pessimistic image of the world. Bush creates and maintains negative frameworks in his listeners' minds with a number of linguistic techniques borrowed from advertising and hypnosis to instill the image of a dark and evil world around us. Catastrophic words and phrases are repeatedly drilled into the listener's head until the opposition feels such a high level of anxiety that it appears pointless to do anything other than cower. Psychologist Martin Seligman, in his extensive studies of "learned helplessness," showed that people's motivation to respond to outside threats and problems is undermined by a belief that they have no control over their environment. Learned helplessness is exacerbated by beliefs that problems caused by negative events are permanent; and when the underlying causes are perceived to apply to many other events, the condition becomes pervasive and paralyzing. Bush is a master at inducing learned helplessness in the electorate. He uses pessimistic language that creates fear and disables people from feeling they can solve their problems. In his September 20, 2001, speech to Congress on the 9/11 attacks, he chose to increase people's sense of vulnerability: "Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen.... I ask you to live your lives, and hug your children. I know many citizens have fears tonight.... Be calm and resolute, even in the face of a continuing threat." (Subsequent terror alerts by the FBI, CIA and Department of Homeland Security have maintained and expanded this fear of uknown, sinister enemies.) Contrast this rhetoric with Franklin Roosevelt's speech delivered the day after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. He said: "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.... There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger. With confidence in our armed forces -- with the unbounding determination of our people -- we will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God." Roosevelt focuses on an optimistic future rather than an ongoing threat to Americans' personal survival. All political leaders must define the present threats and problems faced by the country before describing their approach to a solution, but the ratio of negative to optimistic statements in Bush's speeches and policy declarations is much higher, more pervasive and more long-lasting than that of any other President. Let's compare "crisis" speeches by Bush and Ronald Reagan, the President with whom he most identifies himself. In Reagan's October 27, 1983, televised address to the nation on the bombing of the US Marine barracks in Beirut, he used nineteen images of crisis and twenty-one images of optimism, evenly balancing optimistic and negative depictions. He limited his evaluation of the problems to the past and present tense, saying only that "with patience and firmness we can bring peace to that strife-torn region and make our own lives more secure." George W Bush's October 7, 2002, major policy speech on Iraq, on the other hand, began with forty-four consecutive statements referring to the crisis and citing a multitude of possible catastrophic repercussions. The vast majority of these statements for example: "Some ask how urgent this danger is to America and the world. The danger is already significant, and it only grows worse with time"; "Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists") imply that the crisis will last into the indeterminate future. There is also no specific plan of action. The absence of plans is typical of a negative framework, and leaves the listener without hope that the crisis will ever end. Contrast this with Reagan, who, a third of the way into his explanation of the crisis in Lebanon, asked the following: "Where do we go from here? What can we do now to help Lebanon gain greater stability so that our Marines can come home? Well, I believe we can take three steps now that will make a difference." To create a dependency dynamic between him and the electorate, Bush describes the nation as being in a perpetual state of crisis and then attempts to convince the electorate that it is powerless and that he is the only one with the strength to deal with it. He attempts to persuade people they must transfer power to him, thus crushing the power of the citizen, the Congress, the Democratic Party, even constitutional liberties, to concentrate all power in the imperial presidency and the Republican Party. Bush's political opponents are caught in a fantasy that they can win against him simply by proving the superiority of their ideas. However, people do not support Bush for the power of his ideas, but out of the despair and desperation in their hearts. Whenever people are in the grip of a desperate dependency, they won't respond to rational criticisms of the people they are dependent on. They will respond to plausible and forceful statements and alternatives that put the American electorate back in touch with their core optimism. Bush's opponents must combat his dark imagery with hope and restore American vigor and optimism in the coming years. They should heed the example of Reagan, who used optimism against Carter and the "national malaise"; Franklin Roosevelt, who used it against Hoover and the pessimism induced by the Depression ("the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"); and Clinton (the "Man from Hope"), who used positive language against the senior Bush's lack of vision. This is the linguistic prescription for those who wish to retire Bush in 2004. -- Rita R. Handrich, PhD mailto:rhandrich@mail.utexas.edu Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:36:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: High Up In The Froth Of The Accursed (4th Missive) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Me? I like best the super-wolves that were seen to cross the sun during the earthquake at Palerno. They howled. Or the loves of the worlds. The howls of the planets. I suppose deep-sea fishes have their noses bumped by cinders. All sciences begin with the attempt to define. Nothing has ever been defined. There is nothing to define. Darwin wrote _The Origin Of The Species_. He was never able to define what he meant by "species". It is not possible to define. Nothing has ever been finally found out. There is nothing to find out - it's like looking for a needle that no one ever lost in a haystack that never was stacked. But all scientific attempts really to find out something, whereas really there is nothing to find out, are attempts, themselves, really to be something. We are not realists nor idealists we are intermediatists. I think that one is likely to smile incredulously at the notion of blue moons. NEVERTHELESS they were as common in 1883 as were green suns in 1883. The Earth complained to Mars & swore a vast oath at us. Little frogs start hopping - knowing no more what it's about than we do when we crawl to work in the morning and hop away at night. Bacteria could survive in what we call outer space, of which we know nothing. If you'd like to have a chemist's opinion, even though it is only a chemist's opinion, see the report of the meeting of the Royal Chemical Society, April 2, 1903. If there were elements there could be a real science of chemistry. A coin is condemned because it came from the same region from which, a few years before, had come pottery that had become fraudulent. Hair called real hair - then there are wigs. Teeth called real teeth - then there are dentures. Official money - counterfeit money. Some third-rate scientist comes out with an explanation of the vermiform appendix that would have been acceptable to the biblical Moses. The twinkling of stars is the penetration of light through something that quivers. IT WOULD BE ABSURD TO SAY THE WHOLE SKY IS GELATINOUS: it seems more acceptable to say only certain areas are gelatinous. It is safe to say most of us are deep-sea fishes of a kind - iron, nickel, butter, paper, wool, silk resin, beef, blood, and stone are these kinds of deep-sea fishes. Lucifer never fell from the Heavens - there was Adam in the first place & a human being attracts lightning - the lightning was seen and mistaken for a falling angel when it was just Adam in the first place & a close call it was with the lightning. Science relates to real knowledge no more than the growth of a plant or the organization of a department store or the development of a nation. I know of no difference between science and Christian Science, a Lord Kelvin and a Mrs. Eddy. A Christian Scientist and a toothache - neither exists in the final sense. In 1859 the thing to do was to accept Darwinism but Darwinism was never proved: the fittest survive. What is meant by the fittest? Not the strongest, not the cleverest - weakness and stupidity everywhere survive. There is no way of determining fitness except in that a thing does survive. "Fitness", then, is only another name for "survival". Darwinism: that survivors survive. Survival of the survivors. A cultural revolution ignited by a tautology. The little harlots will caper and freaks will distract attention and clowns will break the rhythm of the whole with their buffooneries - but the solidity of the procession as a whole and the impressiveness of things that pass and pass and pass will keep on and keep on and keep on coming. Venus de Milo - to a child she is repellent. Never has a chemical law, without exception, been discovered - chemistry is continuous with astronomy physics biology. For instance, if the sun should greatly change its distance from the Earth the familiar chemic formulas would no longer work out. There is only in human experience intermediateness to harmony and discord. Harmony is that besides which there are no outside forces. All biologic phenomena act to adjust - there are no biologic actions other than adjustment. As distinct from vegetables, animals do not exist. Newton's three laws, or three attempts to break continuity, are as unreal as all other attempts to localize the universal. Newton's three laws are three articles of faith. Demons and angels and inertias and reactions are all mythological characters. If there are cats, they're only an emphasis upon universal felinity. If everything else is variable, the notion of gravitation as fixed and formulable is only another attempted positivism. Though gravitation may approximate higher to invariability than do the winds, it must be somewhere between the absolutes of stability and instability. The language of physicists and astronomers is the language of expiring sibilations. Astronomers are mercantile purists who would deny commercial vagabondage. Astronomy is a phantom-film distended with myth-stuff. In a real existence, such a quasi-system of fables as the science of chemistry could not deceive for a moment - but that in an existence attempting to become real, it represents that attempt. ~ V. P.S. ~ I can already hear u say, Is this Eureka, or The Conchologist's First? Ha! _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:55:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Welcome Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline W E L C O M E T O T H E P O E T I C S L I S T S E R V Sponsored by the Poetics Program, Department of English, State University of New York at Buffalo Poetics List Moderator: Lori Emerson Please address all inquiries to: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu (note that it may take up to a week to receive a response from us) Snail mail: Poetics Program c/o Lori Emerson, 438 Clemens Hall, SUNY Buffalo, NY 14260 Poetics Listserv Archive: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Electronic Poetry Center: http://epc.buffalo.edu C O N T E N T S: 1. 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Like all systems, the listserv will sometimes be down: if you feel your message has been delayed or lost, *please wait at least one day to see if it shows up*, then check the archive to be sure the message is not posted there; if you still feel there is a problem, you may wish to contact the moderators at . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- E N D O F P O E T I C S L I S T W E L C O M E M E S S A G E ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:59:07 -0400 Reply-To: info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITEBOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: White Box Subject: SIX FEET UNDER - TEAR ME UP TEAR ME DOWN OPENS WEDS 7/9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SIX FEET UNDER TEAR ME UP TEAR ME DOWN Curator Amy Davila Assistant Curator Tairone Bastien Since its inception in 2000, the Six Feet Under series has offered viewers a new vantage point into the White Box space, a unique perspective of its subterranean architecture and alternative direction. By closing the doors and installing work that can only be viewed through the 26th Street window, passersby are invited to see the space as an excavated site, a submerged container beneath the sidewalk, and understand White Box as an "underground" and insurgent agent operating within the commercial art environment of Chelsea. Tear me Up Tear me Down is the fourth installment of the series and will occur in the midst of the reconstruction of the building that houses the gallery. The exhibition will introduce the idea of the "cover-up," the act of concealment, and the process of change through destruction and remaking. As a mask and mirror of the disarray of reconstruction behind the façade, the exhibition will screen viewers from what lies beneath. The window becomes a stage and the artists' installation the ruse. Six galleries were asked to select six artists each of whom will create a six-day installation within the window space at White Box. These artists will work with the curators in actualizing their work within the on-going process of the building's reconstruction. As each artist tears down the old installation to put up a new one, the audience is invited to witness the process. Tear me Up Tear me Down examines the issues surrounding renewal both literally and figuratively and puts into perspective the reality of change. Jon Routson - selected by Team Gallery July 9 - July 16 - Opening Reception July 9, 6 - 8pm Artist selection to be made by 303 Gallery July 16 - July 23 - Opening Reception July 16, 6 - 8pm Jennifer & Kevin McCoy - selected by Postmasters Gallery July 23 - July 30 - Opening Reception July 23, 6 - 8pm Cristian Alexa - selected by Lombard Freid Fine Arts July 30 - August 6 - Opening Reception July 30, 6 - 8pm Cheyney Thompson - selected by Andrew Kreps Gallery August 6 - August 13 - Opening Reception August 6, 6 - 8pm Russell Williams - selected by David Zwirner August 13 - August 20 - Opening Reception August 13, 6 - 8pm White Box is a 501[c][3] not-for-profit arts organization. White Box 525 West 26th Street New York, NY 10001 tel (212) 714-2347 www.whiteboxny.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:01:44 -0400 Reply-To: 18073-feedback-44@lb.bcentral.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: The Bowery Poetry Club From: Poetics List Administration Subject: A Week at the Bowery Poetry Club: Baraka, Blagg, Lord Buckley, Masini, Ghazal, Slovenia, Farsi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Bowery Poetry Club * 308 Bowery NY NY 10012 @ Bleecker, right across = from CBGB's *F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 *= =C2=A0www.bowerypoetry.com =20 Tues 7/8 =C2=A0....tonight at 7 Max Blagg, one of the truly great contemp= orary story-tellers, blends his British=20 twang with the N'awlins drawl of novelist Linda St John (8$)...and at 9 P= oet=20 Provocateur Sage presents his Son of a Bush prior to his run at the Edinb= urgh Fringe (10$).. Wed 7/9=C2=A0It's time (7pm) for our monthly Persian Poetry Reading, Sha= ba Sher in Farsi with some English. Lots of music, Rumi, Hafiz -- a med= itation. (5$)... then we jazz it up with the sounds of DMC: Dave Dreiwitz= (bass), Bob Musso, Lance Carter (drums)(7$)... Thur 7/10 =C2=A0We'll be closed on=20 Thursday because a certain Comedy Central TV pilot will be shot here -- d= rop in for a drink if yr in the neigh, tell em Walt Wit-Man sent ye.=20 Friday, 7/11=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 He's in his 70's, he was the first m= an out of the closet and he wants you to join his army...get to the Prof.= Taylor Mead! show at 6:30 ($5)=20 --the Truth as only Taylor tells it... at 8 it's Reincarnation All Over = Again!=20 The Lord Buckley Show =C2=A0with Jason Eisenberg as the Lord and David Am= ram Band on Beats & reminiscences (10$)... 10pm it's Lexy presents a rock= -hop party, a blend of musics that'll make the marrow shimmer... Saturday 7/12 "Prison, Solitary & Other Government Services" =C2=A0is a o= ne woman show by one of our faves, Carolyn=20 Baxter (only 3$) - 1pm... at 3 we're visited by Boston's premier Poets Th= eater , the Cosmic Spelunker with our pal Hersch Silverman sitting in (3p= m, 5$)...Papa=20 Susso, our resident griot, will be playing in the coffee shop every Satur= day till fall -- drop in for a cuppa po, and check out Papa's new cd's (c= ontribution) -- at 8 it's Reincarnation All Over Again All Over Again! T= he Lord Buckley Show Part II =C2=A0with Jason Eisenberg as the Lord and D= avid Amram Band on Beats & reminiscences (10$)... and we're only saying t= his twice, Amiri Baraka and Blue Ark play a set at 10 and then Amiri Bara= ka and Blue Ark play a set at midnight (print out this for 10$ tix, or T= ake No Chances at www.virtuous.com for $15)... Sunday 7/13 at 2, we'll have an afternoon devoted to the Ghazal in song, = poetry, music, dance (5$+ one drink)... then at, we Welcome Back Donna Ma= sini! for a great party cum reading (free - 2 drink mimimum)... poets fro= m Slovenia, Brane Modedic & Susana Bratnik will be feted by the Slovenian= consulate at 8 (free$)...followed by the premiere appearance of a new Su= nday night feature -- the cast of the off-Broadway smash in DeLa Guarda C= astaways,=20 stepping out in new material (5$). Mon, 7/14 =C2=A0Mondays continue on their outrageous path with this week'= s installment of the=C2=A0Totally Open Slam which=20 starts at 6 led by intrepid Bobaroonie Holmanski (3$)... Janice Girlbomb = & Sara Fisch present Semi-Pro Tool at 8:00 (5$)... and the sin-sational O= 'Debra Twins "Show & Tell" from 10:00 till the whee! hours -- po, perf, a= nd burlesque (3$)... ...next week folk legend Jack Hardy in a rare solo appearance (Tuesday at= 7:30), the return of Poetry Kareoke, Jaap Blonk (world's greatest sound = poet, including=20 a performance with Edwin Torres), Ishle Park's new Saturday series, Failu= re, and the Funeral for Planet Earth!!... Delicious coffee & pastries served weekdays at 9, weekends at 11...homema= de salads & sandwiches till closing...bar opens at 5pm weekdays, 1pm week= ends...wheelchair accessible...coolly air-conditioned...Write poem now th= ank you.=20 The Bowery Poetry Club=20 308 Bowery NY NY 10012 @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's=20 F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 _______________________________________________________________________ Powered by List Builder To unsubscribe follow the link: http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/sp?c=3D18073&s=3DCCE5E4F976EE51A4&m=3D44 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:31:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you for seeing what I was trying to say I seem to have confused other list members and you have encapsulated what I have said. thanks > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of alexander saliby > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 10:56 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my > Humble opinion > > > Haas, > Brilliantly said! Perhaps the message will not go unheeded! And > better yet, the message in the "work" element of the message is > devastating...the right does not sit outside the meetings of the > left dressed in turtle suits spouting aphorisms. The "right" are > diligent workers for their cause in ways that collect votes; the > "left," on the other hand, mull about musty corridors in library > rooms and agree to assemble and demonstrate...mostly they > demonstrate to themselves. > > I'm super impressed with how a group I count as both an > ideological and a numerical minority has orchestrated the > political takeover of the country...I'm distressed at the fact > that I have to live under the rules of the right, but I'm > impressed at the manner in which the mission was accomplished. > Alex > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Haas Bianchi > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 6:22 PM > Subject: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA > in my Humble opinion > > > Allot of people on the site are writing about why the right has its shit > together and the left does not. I am prob the only person on > this site who > went to GOP Campaign school and worked when I was in college > for Reagan and > I have to tell you that the reason that the right wins is because they > learned from great leftists of the past to be ruthless. The GOP and the > Conservative movement was build upon resentment and giving > voice to people > who the left chose to ignore, white ethnics, white southerners, > lower middle > class workers and suburbanites a voice. This is a message drilled into > everyone on the right just look at who are Fox's key personalities, Bill > O'Reilly a self described Irish Catholic from Long Island, Sean Hannity, > look at Rush Limbaugh, he is an evangelical from Missouri, Anne > Coulter is a > a German American Catholic School product, and the list goes on. > > The model for much of what the right does is not Fascism it is > the old left > of Richard Daley and FDR and old labor. If you look at the rise > of the Right > in the USA what did they do to build themselves up? 1) They allied > themselves with easy issues that were easy to convey and they > did it in a > non elitist way.. 2) The left on the other hand was spending its time > drumming the Richard Daley's,Jimmy Hoffa's and John Connally's > out of its > ranks this created resentment among these core groups the > result was that > they left and today congressmen like William Lipinski in Chicago or Zell > Miller in Georgia are rarities in the Democratic party. 3) The > fact is that > the key swing groups in this country, many that have leftist > economic views > but conservative morals, are white ethnics in the north and white > southerners this group is over 40% of the US population and the > Conservatives focused on this group and while many of them, > especially the > Catholics and Southern/Northern Labor Union members were genetically > democrats and liberal on allot of issues for example 60% of all > Catholics > oppose the death penalty, they left and voted for the GOP > because no one > spoke to them in the Democratic party except Bill Clinton, > since 1964 Bill > Clinton was the only Democrat to do well with these voters. 4) > FDR and LBJ > understood that the key to winning elections was to build a coalition of > people who have some things in common, not all things in > common, and they > won, and the right was all but wiped away from 1933-1964 but > Conservatives > learned well from FDR and built their own coalition. 5) But the > left still > has the neo-Marxist notion that you must be on board on all issues to be > part of a movement as FDR said someone who is with me 80% of > the time is not > my 20% enemy he is my 80% friend. This is something that most > on the left > do not understand. > > The fact is that while the left has preached ideological purity > and elitism > the right has gathered together a coalition and this coalition > is growing in > the South West they are spending millions on Hispanics and in > New York they > are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are smarter because they > realize that winning leads to governing and building a > coalition is key to > this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, Blacks some > Hispanics and > what is Left of the Union vote you need more votes and they are > to be found > in white working and lower middle and the middle class. > > The left has not given the members of the Right's coalition a > reason to look > to them, when industrial jobs were being destroyed in this country > environmentalists looked upon this as a way to clean up the environment. > Today industrial jobs are a memory in the nation and it is hard > to have a > labor movement without these jobs and Labor's strength is the > reason that > Europe has a humane system and we do not. > > While affirmative action is essential and needed for African > Americans the > left has not come up with anything to help those people who do > not fall into > a protected group for education and opportunity. If you are a > working class > white male from Appalachia or Queens or Berwyn, IL there is no > one offering > you a hand you are considered 'white'just like some society WASP from > Connecticut and you wonder why these people vote Republican? They do not > feel that anyone on the left is listening as their > opportunities are taken > away; go to neighborhoods like Hegwisch here in Chicago and see > the three > generation Union families that are on welfare now because the factories > moved to China, there are millions of Americans in this > position and no one > on the left cares. Franco once said that the reason the left > lost in Spain > is because they thought they knew what the 'people'wanted but > they did not > know any 'people'. > I think that the left needs to spend more time with regular > working people > and less time in university towns and elite neighborhoods if > the left did > this and really listened there is no way that the right could > win another > election and Fox would not matter > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Frank Sherlock > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:25 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie Nelson Support > > > > > > A few things- the fix. Didn't you blame Nader a few posts ago? > > Was Nader in on > > the fix? Maybe your point is that Nader made it close. My > point is that it > > should have never been close. But okay. > > > > "Corporations are taking over the reins of government." The > > reason Nader got > > any votes at all was because corporations HAVE TAKEN government. > > Al Gore is a > > great example, in fact. > > > > The cartoon history of the right wing does no one justice. Is the > > right really > > simple? Saying they "always have their shit together" is another > > way of making > > an excuse why the left doesn't. > > > > The left is no more complicated. It shouldn't be, unless we want > > to come off as > > the oh so complex & enlightened good guys that know what's best > > for everyone > > whether they like it or not. > > > > "Hitler was a straight-ahead kind of guy." Come on. Do you really > > believe he > > was any less complicated than say, Bill Clinton? > > > > Dismissal of the right squanders the opportunity to know it, > > dissect it & learn > > from it. > > > > The "literate equals progressive" argument is elitist, but also > > untrue. Brazil > > elected Lula- maybe the most progressive leader in the world, > while France > > recently had a runoff election w/ a neo-nazi. > > > > I'd just like to say- hold on, Joel. Don't give up so early in > > the game. You > > seem like a good guy, & I just can't believe that Joe Leiberman > > is the man for > > you.> > > > > > > > > Frank: > > > > > > We know why the Democrat didn't win--the election in Florida > > was fixed. Not > > > to excuse Gore. who didn't have the fire in his belly. I'm not > > criticizing > > > your strategy, if it moves Kerry to the left then it's more > > than worthwhile. > > > But having seen several progressive democrats defeated, and > > badly, during my > > > lifetime, I don't want to go the same route again. We can't > > afford it, as > > > corporations are taking over the reins of government. Yes, the > > right-wing, > > > in any country, always has the shit together, as their program > > is simple: > > > power, greed, intolerance. Hitler was a straight-ahead kind > of guy. The > > > right-wing always has the upper hand because it appeals to > > simplicity and > > > the always lurking dark side of the human psyche. It's the > > master of secrecy > > > and the lie, as we see with the Bush Administration. While > democracy is > > > about discussion, argument, the testing of ideas. of airing the > > laundry out. > > > And it's about compromise, whether we like the compromise or not. > > > As for a progressive candidate being able to win the next > > election. I agree > > > that one could win the Democratic nomination, but not the > > national election. > > > You can tell how a progressive candidate can do by the level > > and quality of > > > a country's literacy. Need I say more? > > > > > > -Joel > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:44 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie > Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well Joel, I'm guessing that you voted for the Democrat who > > couldn't win > > > > in > > > > > 2000. If you revisit my post, maybe you'll understand > why I'm saying > > > this- > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > A year & a half before the election, you have already > decided that a > > > > > progressive Democrat doesn't have a chance. Because this is > > what you're > > > > told. > > > > > You're prepared to take your medicine 15 months in advance. > > You're that > > > > scared? > > > > > Wow, they've(the Dem Machine)got you runnin'. > > > > > > > > > > With or without your spoonful of sugar, my point still stands. A > > > candidate > > > > > lacking progressive accountability(a Bush-Lite nominee)WILL > > NOT win in > > > > 2004. > > > > > There will be Party Splitsville again. And you WILL > deserve what you > > > get. > > > > > > > > > > I'll pray for you now, my friend. > > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're clearly right that the Demos are a weak-kneed bunch. The > > > > alternative, > > > > > > however, four more years of Bush, and the Ten > > Commandments will take > > > the > > > > > > place of the Constitution. Then what will you do? Pray? > > > > > > Vote for a Democrat who can't win, and Bush will laugh > > all the way to > > > > his > > > > > > next war. > > > > > > > > > > > > Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Frank Sherlock" > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:13 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [deeplistening] Kucinich: Nader & Willie > > Nelson Support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Nader incident." That's a good one. When did > the concept of > > > > elected > > > > > > > officials actually working to earn the vote of the > individual > > > citizen > > > > > > become > > > > > > > outdated? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to push-start the Nader-Go-Round on this > > list again. I > > > do > > > > > > want to > > > > > > > point out that the Democrats(as we know them)are > > fueling the fear > > > fire > > > > as > > > > > > a > > > > > > > means to their end, which is business as usual. Inaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They huff & they puff as they play catch-up w/ the > > latest polls. As > > > > long > > > > > > as > > > > > > > they're afraid to lead, they don't deserve to lead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans say it like they mean it. And they do mean > > it, as we're > > > > > > witnessing. > > > > > > > What wins undecided voters is respect for the > > candidate, & nobody > > > > really > > > > > > > respects Republican Lite. If progressive Democrats > don't demand > > > > > > accountability > > > > > > > from their own party, the vote will be split again & > > again. If we > > > > don't > > > > > > support > > > > > > > progressive Democrat candidates straight through next year's > > > election, > > > > we > > > > > > > deserve what we get. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maria: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours seems a good approach. > > > > > > > > It is a repeat of the Nader incident that scares me, > > and now the > > > > stakes > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > much higher. > > > > > > > > However, unlike Nader, Kucinich is a Democrat, so > > that after the > > > > > > convention > > > > > > > > the party will be unified, and maybe Kucinich will > > move Kerry to > > > the > > > > > > left in > > > > > > > > foreign policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i always support the person i want until push comes > > to shove, > > > i.e. > > > > > > > > > the convention. then i get practical. but we > > can't make change > > > > > > > > > unless we agitate for what we really want while > we can still > > > make > > > > a > > > > > > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 5:04 PM -0700 7/2/03, Joel Weishaus wrote: > > > > > > > > > >The most important thing is to get Bush and his > > Wrecking Crew > > > out > > > > of > > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > > >and stop the bleeding of people at home and around > > the world, > > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >economy, the environment.... The strongest > > Democrat needs to be > > > > > > running > > > > > > > > > >against him. Kucinich, whom I'd like to vote > for, isn't the > > > > strongest > > > > > > > > > >candidate, Kerry is. I don't agree with Kerry > on foreign > > > policy, > > > > but > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > >things first, as they say. If you think Bush has > > done damage > > > > already, > > > > > > > > wait > > > > > > > > > >until he can't run again, when he doesn't have to > > pay attention > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >people at all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Joel W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >WILLIE NELSON ENDORSES KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >One of the most beloved figures in popular > music and > > > culture > > > > has > > > > > > > > > >> >endorsed the populist presidential > candidate, Dennis > > > > Kucinich. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >STATEMENT FROM WILLIE NELSON "I am endorsing Dennis > > > Kucinich > > > > for > > > > > > > > > >> >President because he stands up for heartland > > Americans who > > > > are > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > >> >often overlooked and unheard. He has done that > > his whole > > > > > > political > > > > > > > > > >> >career. Big corporations are well-represented in > > > Washington, > > > > but > > > > > > > > > >> >Dennis Kucinich is a rare Congressman of > conscience and > > > > bravery > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > >> >fights for the unrepresented, much like the > > late Senator > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > >> >Wellstone. Dennis champions individual > > privacy, safe food > > > > laws > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> >family farmers. A Kucinich Administration > will put the > > > > interests > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> >America's family farmers, consumers and > > environment above > > > the > > > > > > greed > > > > > > > > > >> >of industrial agribusiness. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >"I normally do not get too heavily involved in > > politics, > > > but > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> >more about getting involved with America than with > > > politics. > > > > I > > > > > > > > > >> >encourage people to learn more about > Dennis Kucinich at > > > > > > > > > >> >http://www.kucinich.us > > and I will > > > be > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > >> >all I can to raise his profile with voters. I > > plan to do > > > > concerts > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> >benefit the campaign." > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >(This is an individual endorsement and does > > not reflect the > > > > views > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> >any organization.) > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >"It's an honor," commented Rep. Kucinich, > "to earn the > > > > support of > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> >man who has come to symbolize the best values > > of America." > > > ## > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >"ON THE ROAD AGAIN": With Willie Nelson's > endorsement, > > > > momentum > > > > > > > > > >> >continues to build for our insurgent > campaign -- as we > > > > increase > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > >> >support base, our volunteer base, our > endorsements and > > > > > > fundraising. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >RALPH NADER, on last night's CNN > Crossfire, said: "If > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > > >> >Kucinich gets the nomination, it'll be less > > reason to have > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > >third-party challenge. He's a very progressive > > > Democrat..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dare to dream. We can win this nomination. > > With so many > > > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > > > >in the race, everyone is a long shot, not > > just us. To see > > > > why > > > > > > > > > >> >KUCINICH WILL DEFEAT BUSH, check out > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >http://kucinich.us/electable.htm ## > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > >> >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> b/S=170507 > > > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >958:HM/A=1652964/R=0/SIG=11t2ts2ch/*http://www.netflix.com/Defaul > t?mqso=601 > > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > > >8276&partid=3170658> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > >> >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > > >> >Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:31:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble opinion In-Reply-To: <001501c3455f$053f25a0$a3175581@rockefeller.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit many elections have been stolen 1960, 1876, and 2000 what does that prove the right is more ruthless. > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Anastasios Kozaitis > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:42 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my > Humble opinion > > > The "right" stole the election in Florida. It didn't "win" anything. > STOLE. It took criminal ledgers from Texas, Alabama, and two other > states. Then it listed all the more general "black" sounding common > names like James Johnson, etc. and everyone who showed up to vote in > Florida with the same names were not permitted to vote. It illegally > stole the election. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Kazim Ali > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:40 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my > Humble opinion > > My two cents > > the right has also won many elections by strategically > disenfranchising lower income people, people of color, > and new immigrants. > > the right won the last presidential election with > blatant disregard for public opinion. > > i love that fierce exchange Michael Douglas has with > Michael J Fox in "American President". "Lewis, people > don't crawl through the desert to drink sand because > they want water, they drink sand because they don't > know the difference." > > the right wins elections through misrepresentation, > chicanery, terrorism, and in some cases brute > violence. > > > > > > The fact is that while the left has preached > > ideological purity and elitism > > > the right has gathered together a coalition and > > this coalition is growing in > > > the South West they are spending millions on > > Hispanics and in New York they > > > are spending millions on the Jewish vote. They are > > smarter because they > > > realize that winning leads to governing and > > building a coalition is key to > > > this. Democrats cannot win with Gays, Feminists, > > Blacks some Hispanics and > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:14:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: new work (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII new very simple work http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ core images (corrected) http://www.asondheim.org/portal/wallvoid.exe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:04:42 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Bookpeople MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit West Coast's Legendary Bookpeople Hopes to Halt Southward Turn The bug that has bitten LPC and a host of other small and mid-size intermediaries has stung Oakland's Bookpeople, which is working frenetically to complete a restructuring plan by Friday. Without the money, the West Coast institution could be forced to file for Chapter 11. The cash would come from investment firm St. Cloud Capital, which has agreed to provide new financing for Bookpeople as long as the wholesaler can significantly reduce its debt to publishers. To do that, Stephen Kerr, a financial consultant brought in by Bookpeople nine months ago, has asked publishers to accept an agreement that would pay them 50% of what they're owed on invoices between 91 and 180 days old, and 25% on invoices over 180 days. All invoices less than 90 days will be paid in full. At the end of June, Kerr sent letters to 430 publishers; about 65% have already agreed to the new terms, with the consent of roughly another 60, or 15%, needed by Friday to secure the St. Cloud cash infusion. Publishers are mixed on the company's efforts. One house, Boston's Red Wheel/Weisser, says it remains optimistic. "I tend to be bullish. We still see Bookpeople as a valuable and vital supplier of books to the West Coast," says the house's Michael Kerber, who made good on his optimism by signing on as one of the wholesaler's featured publishers. But another publisher, Berkeley's Ronin, says that at the end of 2002 it pulled out most of its stock from the firm's warehouse and didn't have any great hopes "It got to the point where they could barely even get us $200," says publisher Beverly Potter, "and we realized if a creditor came in to their warehouse we would be out of business." She adds that, "The thing about Bookpeople is they do some things very well and some things very poorly They're really good at packing books and hardly ever make a mistake. But when it comes to paperwork? Ridiculous." Still, Potter says she signed the letter because she had nothing to lose. If the money comes through, Bookpeople says that in addition to paying down debts, it will use the new funds to upgrade its backoffice operations and to help it move into new retail accounts. In his letter, Kerr blamed the sluggish book market and loss of independent booksellers as the main reasons for the wholesaler's plight. Kerber agreed. "This says a lot less about Bookpeople than [it does] the times," he says.-Steven Zeitchik and Jim Milliot from Publishers Weekly ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:18:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Reading at Remote! July 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reading at Remote! Portraits at Other Sides: Tuesday, July 15th at Remote Lounge, 327 Bowery above 2nd St. Doors will open at 7pm, the event will start at 7:30. There is a $5 cover. The readers are: Samuel Delany Alan Sondheim Rob Stephenson Tom Zummer Ellen Zweig Portraits From Other Sides: Rob Stephenson presents an evening of text, sex, video, a philosophical dog, and maybe robots with Ellen Zweig, Alan Sondheim, Tom Zummer and special guest Samuel R. Delany. Remote Lounge is a revolutionary new concept in nightlife entertainment. Located in downtown Manhattan, it is a technology-themed cocktail lounge and new media art space unlike anything else in the world. The lounge is outfitted with over 60 video cameras - covering every square foot of the space from multiple angles - and this live video is displayed on over 100 output devices, such as CRTs, LCDs, large format plasma screens and video projectors. Into this mix of live feeds are an ever-changing roster of digital and analog video artworks, animation, special effects, web-based art and interactive multimedia created by both emerging and established new media artists. Samuel R Delany is a writer and literary critic. Delany is best known for writing extensively in the mainstream science fiction and fantasy genres. He has won four Nebula Awards. The best-selling novel. Dhalgren, has sold over a million copies. He is also the author of a number of fictional and autobiographical works that include references to extreme aspects of human sexuality. His most recent novel is The Madman. Tom Zummer studied philosophy under Michel Foucault and Jacques Derrida, and is an artist and curator. "Zummer's uncanny portraits of robots are beautiful and out of this world. He is also a theorist, book designer, professor, and comic art novelist, Zummer's artistic talents are as eclectic as they are numerous." The Austin Chronicle Alan Sondheim is a writer/multimedia theorist (editor of Being On Line). Alan is a poet and critic who writes on and about the Internet. His books include Disorders of the Real, and the anthology Being on Line. He co-moderates several email lists, including Fiction of Philosophy, Cybermind, and Cyberculture. He was also virtual writer-in-residence for the trAce (sic) online writing community at the beginning of this year; he worked on a number of collaborative projects at The Lost Project at trAce, and his trAce projects are collected in their Writers-in-Residence archives. Ellen Zweig is an artist who works with video, audio, installation and performance. Her most recent work is the video series, HEAP, a collection of experimental portraits of Westerners who have studied, invented, misunderstood and loved China. "(tongue tongue stone) G. W. Leibnitz" premiered at the International Film Festival Rotterdam, 2003. In her installations, Zweig has used optics to create camera obscuras, video projection devices, and miniature projected illusions. She has also created multi-channel video installations that have toured the US (museums include: New Mexico Museum of Fine Art in Santa Fe, List Center for the Visual Arts at MIT, Scottsdale Center for the Arts, P.S. 1 in New York). Rob Stephenson's writing has been published both on and offline in a wide variety of publications, recently including the Blithe House Quarterly, Dangerous Families, Velvet Mafia, Please Records, and Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness. He designs a continuing series of chapbooks that feature his poetry, essays, stories, artwork, and photography. Some of his short films were shown at the International Film Festival in Seoul Korea this year. His drawings have been exhibited at the Intersection Art Gallery in San Francisco, the Headlands Center for the Arts, the Katona Museum, and the Wexner Museum. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:08:57 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: the blind rabbi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A blind rabbi once told me that if you argue with a fool how is the passerby to decide between the two "Who is who?" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:16:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Accelerated Information Processing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Accelerated Information Processing #0001 excerpt agency to the very agency to the very body was exploding image international image international him. 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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:24:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Comorbid Pathologic Vulnerability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Comorbid Pathologic Vulnerability #0001 excerpt and the towns spurious debaters distinctive terrains and the towns his body into the his body into the spurious debaters under the shower and under the shower and powerful army, km gave it a gallery, "But you under the shower and satisfaction cues I with woman's of the weight criteria Nevertheless days' weak, and demanded distinctive terrains true to own account, satisfaction cues I Nevertheless days' weight criteria true to own account, moved about non-meant to be Hezekiah king of where and after all, smaller satellites sites where and after all, radiation now radiation now smaller satellites upper right ganymede upper right ganymede servant extends Manasseh Golan asses well. people upper right ganymede then go to would overtones of inspectors bars, the word then let make the sites tastefully, this then go to would the word inspectors bars, tastefully, this through telescope outstretched, I had outer surface covers and the -father's family to I had outer surface unhappy fate unhappy fate covers and the unless indeed the unless indeed around the chief of mistake grinding When he came to the the unless indeed climaxed our administrations tenderness looking distant the Lord appearance the -father's family to on and endeavour, climaxed our looking distant tenderness on and endeavour, specialized image retain unique status nothing to me but I volcanic features iraqis change nothing to me but I different different volcanic features what was in his what was in his lips with a "Ascend, tell numbers dns permits what was in his become my seat, to blood engorged prick is wisest to be her old impact iraqis change the instruments become is wisest to be her blood engorged prick the instruments ran her tongue up these particles wish to october one there with the fervour of wish to your heart for your heart for october one there me jealous me jealous and he of gold by beheld Jacob spake years old when he me jealous same day to expected perhaps ones-complement acquired data next gave all whatever with the fervour of king gave same day to acquired data next ones-complement king gave shadows Cardinal explain!" and the love her, opposite the evil faults Ahaziah the son love her, opposite myself mostly out myself mostly out the evil faults sake son assistance, sake son assistance, tongue that her place by numbers particles sake son assistance, except close look caldera origin next now answer Joseph, says study solar was true driveway Ahaziah the son her girl juice and except close look says study solar now answer Joseph, her girl juice and words, thou end annan aziz bank, deputy prime crater prinz strip rock -tempered bank, deputy prime to be turgid finger to be turgid finger crater prinz strip estimated few estimated few few minutes quartzo- church of house which I uv estimated few explain cores these imaged small cluster think if they could Tebaliah the third -Subject to subject, observations the girl. Samuel the rock -tempered Cole was feeling. explain cores these Tebaliah the third -Subject to subject, observations think if they could Cole was feeling. come back father of called Teacher august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:19:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: art in western mass Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed All, here is some info on a great show up in western MA... http://www.petergregorio.com/ July 2003: Exhibition at the Northampton Center for the Arts, Northampton, MA Peter Gregorio will be showing the ten Nepal paintings and the Civilization paintings. Exhibition Dates: July 7-28, Hours M-F 10-3pm and by request Artist Reception: Sunday, July 20th, 5-7pm. Northampton Center for the Arts 17 New South St. Suite 303 Northampton, MA 01060 phone: 413.584.7327 fax: 413.582.9014 ncfa@rcn.com The Work of Peter Gregorio It is fitting that Peter Gregorio works on such a large scale; fitting because his paintings, ranging in size from the 6ft by 6ft Nepal series to the massive 14ft by 8ft paintings in his Civilization series, are both informed by and respond to architecture. However, the architectural structures in Gregorio's work, whether mysterious descending stairs and shadowed façades or the temples and alleyways of India and Nepal, engender a tactility missing from much representational painting. Rather than rendering a particular building with mathematical precision, he has chosen to enliven the sometimes-ineffable experience of looking at architecture. Gregorio works through the intersection of the actual world and the abstractions we apply to it. The paintings achieve a compelling duality through the use of foundational color fields, which simultaneously form the background and fill in much of the depicted structures. All of the shapes, forms and patterns carry something of the whole of each work, creating a balanced visual harmony. One senses the breath of the artist in the subtle expansions and contractions of his lines. Everything here seems to hum, while numerous directional imperatives send one at once across and into the depths of the canvas. There is a static-free motion to these works, a motion complicated by the inclusion, within a single painting, of the light from both different seasons and multiple hours of the day. This lends the paintings a peripatetic and rejuvenescent quality as they interact with the light from their surroundings, further mirroring the experience one has while observing architecture. Here, then, is the successful re-creation of the artist's perception, allowing one to intimately enter into the open-ended meaning of a reverent moment. --Noah Eli Gordon. July 2003, Northampton, MA _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:31:28 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michel Delville Subject: query: Stein's "Pink Melon Joy" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear listers, I am planning to teach Stein's "Pink Melon Joy" as part of a seminar next year, and I wondered whether anyone could point me to some secondary literature on that particular poem. Many thanks in advance! Michel Delville ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:43:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Musical Acts needed for Boog Elvis Costello show at CB's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, A couple of bands for our "My Aim is Boog" show on Wed., July 30, at CB's 313 Gallery in NYC dopped out at the last minute, so we need your help in filling the remaining two slots. The two song pairings remaining are below. If you have an act email me here or call me at the below #; if you know of an act have them do the same. Thanks in advance and hope all is well. as ever, david the song pairings: No Dancing/Blame It On Cain Night Rally/Radio, Radio -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:13:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Re: Musical Acts needed for Boog Elvis Costello show at CB's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David what kind of music are you looking for--sort of punk rock or is jazz an option--and are you paying? Alicia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:18:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Amiri Baraka at Bowery Poetry Club, Sat July 12, two sets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Baraka wil be appearing at 10 & 12 w/ his stellar jazz crew, Blue Ark. Tickets are $15 but print this out for poets' price of 10. To be sure, go to virtuous.com for advance tix ($15 only, + $1 surcharge). Virtually Visit Bowery Poetry Club @ www.bowerypoetry.com Literally: 308 Bowery NY, NY 10012 (Bleecker-Houston) 212-614-0505 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:20:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Lord Buckley at Bowery W/ David Amram MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jason Eisenberg will "do" the Lord in his REINCARNATION ALL OVER AGAIN, backed up by David Amram Trio on beats and reminiscences. Fri & Sat July 11-12, 8pm, $10. Dig Infinity! Virtually Visit Bowery Poetry Club @ www.bowerypoetry.com Literally: 308 Bowery NY, NY 10012 (Bleecker-Houston) 212-614-0505 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:21:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: query: Stein's "Pink Melon Joy" In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20030709153128.0077ebbc@pop3.mailbc.ulg.ac.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed "Then? He kissed the plump mellow yellow smellow melons of her rump, on each plump melonous hemisphere, in their mellow yellow furrow, with obscure prolonged provocative melonsmellonous osculation." -- _ULYSSES_ At 03:31 PM 7/9/2003 +0200, Michel Delville wrote: >Dear listers, > >I am planning to teach Stein's "Pink Melon Joy" as part of a seminar next >year, and I wondered whether anyone could point me to some secondary >literature on that particular poem. > >Many thanks in advance! > >Michel Delville ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:28:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: "Life never stops" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Planning a Legacy in Venice for a 60's Art Movement July 9, 2003 =A0By MATTHEW ROSE A cancer diagnosis has focused an art dealer's goal to refurbish her Venice real estate holdings to become part of a foundation offering hospitality to artists and writers. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/09/arts/design/=20 09FLUX.html?ex=3D1058759869&ei=3D1&en=3D8b0c1bc1ccd111f8= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:37:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Musical Acts needed for Boog Elvis Costello show at CB's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey alicia, any musical style is ok, and the night is a benefit for the paper, so, alas, no renumeration for the acts. best, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:45:27 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble Well Joe, I think you have alot right. What I took issue with was your condemnation of the white working middle as the real bigots, since they don't pull the strings of military, media & international trade. Not apologizing or justifying their intolerance- just not letting the real culprit off the hook. Of course all working class people don't vote Republican. I thought we were talking about whitey. The "poor, forgotten" were your words, not mine. I would agree with your assessment of class shift. What puzzles me is how Joel can think "you have it right." While I am in 100% agreement with the last half of your post, this thread started because I responded to Joel's reference to "the Nader incident" & his plea for a Democrat, any Democrat at any cost. Joel believes that if a Republican wins "the nation will be controlled by corporations." I say that has been our miserable now, not our scary future.I cited Al Gore as dirty business posterboy. Clinton too. Maybe it sounded better when you said it. So rock on, Joe. Joel, what's the story? Frank> Well Frank, I think I do have it right. In the first place, not all working > class people vote republican -- those who do are mostly white males, whose > feelings of impotence have been greatly exacerbated. The reason that the working > class shifted to the whacko right is that they didn't like the democratic > standards that were developing in the 60s & 70s -- you know, political rights for > every group, whether you like them or not. And indeed, no one should be > characterizing the white middle class as poor because if you've looked around > lately, almost all of the working class is solidly in the middle class. The > issue is that the liberals have sold out any real values they have that are in the > slightest democratic -- witness the election of Clinton, who in any real > survey would come off as a moderate republican. The truth is that American don't > much give a shit about anything but their lifestyles and their narrow > religious beliefs. Most of them don't care how many people we kill around the globe > as long as gas is cheap and the malls are open. It's a delusion to think that > electing democrats will be much of an improvement, since the pols from both > parties are bought and paid for by the same groups of elites, whose particular > interests these days are ways to accelerate the shift of wealth from the > middle-class to themselves -- that's right, Frank, they're robbing the same bigoted > boobs that vote them in! & what will be the net result of this theft, > Frank? Why, an increase in their feelings of impotence, which will again be > exploited by dishes of testosterone had fed them by the right-wing controlled media > to hate minorities and women even more. Haas's solution is to be just like > the rats and use the same hate tactics that they use, and of course with > promises of tax cuts that in reality turn out to be just the opposite. This goes > right to the heart of the matter -- there's no difference between the two parties > except spin. If you or Haas really want to promote democracy, go out and > found a new political party -- that's how we might get democracy here. As it > stands, we're about 15 or 20 political parties short of one. > > jb > > In a message dated 07/08/2003 11:39:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > revfic@BOO.NET writes: > > > > No Joe, you don't have it right. The point Haas is making is that no one is > > reaching out to the poor, forgotten whites except for those with a bigoted > > agenda. Unless you assume that white ethnics & southerners are by their very > > nature bigoted, which would be a classist & misguided assumption. > > > > Obviously white working folks haven't cornered the market on intolerance, > > since > > that agenda is being pushed in "the media, the economic agenda, the > > military, > > the money, the judicial system." The pusher here is a super-rich power > > structure with the juice to get their point across, not white have-nots. > > > > The post reinforces Haas' statement. Dismissal of the white working class in > > America spells political failure. You also make a great point- university > > intellectuals who ignore the forementioned agenda machines will likewise > > fail. > > > > Frank> > > > > > > > > They hang the man and flog the woman > That steal the goose from off the common, > But let the greater villain loose > That steals the common from the goose. > > Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency > to render the head too large for the body. A standing military > force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. > companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson > > > "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed > by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say > corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't > want us to know." > > Gore Vidal --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:55:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CE Putnam Subject: Portland Reading -- C.E. Putnam & Ashley Edwards In-Reply-To: <64D30784.4988A855.0AE771A7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.flim.com/spareroom/2003july.shtml ************************** Hope to see you there. Most Hoogily, c.e. ************************* Spare Room presents... C.E. Putnam & Ashley Edwards Thursday, July 10, 2003, 7:30 pm Westwind Gallery 2486 NW Kearney Portland, Ore. Suggested donation $5 (for more information or directions, call 503-233-4562) About the readers: C.E. Putnam has lived in three world capitals: Washington D.C., London, and Bangkok. The proprietor of P.I.S.O.R. (The Putnam Institute for Space Opera Research) & the 50¢ Off Press, his chapbooks include Communal Bebop Canto (1998; a renga project with Allison Cobb and Jen Coleman), Have you ever heard of a thing like that? (2001; a gallery companion to a collaborative exhibition with artist Robb Putnam ), and Maniac Box (2001). The magazines Monkey Puzzle, Bird Dog, Pom2, Ixnay, Tinfish, Northwest Review, and Skanky Possum may very well contain some of his published works. He currently lives in his birthplace, Seattle, above a violin repair shop. He will probably be reading from his new manuscript entitled Things Keep Happening. "C.E. Putnam used to be water, but now he is coffee." --Arthur Rimbaud Ashley Edwards attends Reed College and hopes to pursue graduate study in poetics at SUNY Buffalo. She is currently working on a multimedia performance piece entitled "the hamlet incident," an investigation into the literary history of ghosts, to be presented at Pacific Switchboard in August. The first issue of FO.A.RM (hot off the press) includes Ashley's "Unable to Divide the Word Without Its Use: The Broken Poetry of Typewriting Drills." She is the Editorial Assistant for the Organ Review of Arts. Over the summer, she plans to give town lectures, interview livestock auctioneers, and work collaboratively on a zine about art appropriation. Currently on her reading platter: Steven Connor's Dumbstruck: A Cultural History of Ventriloquism. She loves all worlds she lives in. "The conscripted dawn of mutable hydrologies." --The Black Tarantula (on the work of Ashley Edwards) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:01:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kerri Sonnenberg Subject: Change of address for Conundrum magazine Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Conundrum magazine is on the move (again) Please address subscriptions and submissions to: Kerri Sonnenberg/Conundrum 3224 W. Pierce Ave. #2 Chicago, IL 60622 (email submissions are also welcomed) Copies of issue 1 are still available ($6) Issue 2 is due out late summer 03 Issue 3 reading period Sept. 1-Jan. 1 2004 www.conundrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:14:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: query: Stein's "Pink Melon Joy" In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030709111946.0179ee70@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is wonderful. I have never witnessed a melon osculate, though I have heard others claim, particulary in summer fields at night, especially adjacent with fields with tall wands of corn offering secondary reflections of moonlight, you can literally see a melon's skin ripple while the body grows and becomes more round in its various diameters. Ah, and it's so nice to read prose entirely unselfconscious of cellulite and all the Po Mo detritus that interrupts 'discourse' into the blind pleasure of a "plump melonous hemisphere." Thanks, Mr. Gudding, for interrupting the morning labors - tapping away at a plastic keyboard - with this lovely, fleshy 'distraction.' ! Stephen V on 7/9/03 9:21 AM, Gabriel Gudding at gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > "Then? > > He kissed the plump mellow yellow smellow melons of her rump, on each plump > melonous hemisphere, in their mellow yellow furrow, with obscure prolonged > provocative melonsmellonous osculation." > > -- _ULYSSES_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:27:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Re: some politicol neuropoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Tom Bell, Your post of Renana Brooks' essay "A Nation of Victims," is excellent. Maybe not doing it justice here with a quick cut-up I made for writing/poem I doing now, but thought I'd share it anyway. The Brooks' essay is right up my alley. For "Poetics," my own problem is how to make such cut-up "poetry," how to not try so hard to begin with, and how to make some kind of decent writing out of the simple, natural impulses. Or something like that... Note the substitution of "poetical" for "political" in line 2. Does that get the writing/"poem" off to a bad start right from the get-go? And does it constrict the "point-of-view," the "You," and then the reader (now the reader is a body of poets instead of a body of, say, voters or other middle class citizens) and thus by constricting the reader to "poets" blow its range? You will be told that he's already made up his mind, that his poetical failure turns out to be no surprise, that his is the dominant personality type or that his is a dominator emotional language, mastery, hot media marital concealing of faulty Union speech, empty language, including thirty-nine examples that I will not yield, personalization, core beliefs, and contempt for argumentation, that curious almost petulant substitutes ask what you can do for your nations, that multiple fiscal and monetary policy tools used to stimulate an economy of learned helplessness and speech after speech and hyponosis and advertizing and emotional language were used, too, that the condition becomes pervasive and paralyzing and overlooked, that the repeated statements became their own electoral resistance, that once again, we are called to defend the safety of our people and the hopes of all mankind, folksiness, confidence, determination, and catastrophic words and phrases repeatedly drilled into the listener's head, and that Saddamn needs to go, that he's made himself clear. Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com Tom Bell's post: A Nation of Victims Renana Brooks The Nation Renana Brooks, PhD, is a clinical psychologist practicing in Washington, DC. She heads the Sommet Institute for the Study of Power and Persuasion () and is completing a book on the virtue myth and the conservative culture of domination. George W Bush is generally regarded as a mangler of the English language. What is overlooked is his mastery of emotional language -- especially negatively charged emotional language -- as a political tool. Take a closer look at his speeches and public utterances, and his political success turns out to be no surprise. It is the predictable result of the intentional use of language to dominate others. President Bush, like many dominant personality types, uses dependency-creating language. He employs language of contempt and intimidation to shame others into submission and desperate admiration. While we tend to think of the dominator as using physical force, in fact most dominators use verbal abuse to control others. Abusive language has been a major theme of psychological researchers on marital problems, such as John Gottman, and of philosophers and theologians, such as Josef Pieper. But little has been said about the key role it has come to play in political discourse, and in such "hot media" as talk radio and television. Bush uses several dominating linguistic techniques to induce surrender to his will. The first is empty language . This term refers to broad statements that are so abstract and mean so little that they are virtually impossible to oppose. Empty language is the emotional equivalent of empty calories. Just as we seldom question the content of potato chips while enjoying their pleasurable taste, recipients of empty language are usually distracted from examining the content of what they are hearing. Domina-tors use empty language to conceal faulty generalizations; to ridicule viable alternatives; to attribute negative motivations to others, thus making them appear contemptible; and to rename and "reframe" opposing viewpoints. Bush's 2003 State of the Union speech contained thirty-nine examples of empty language. He used it to reduce complex problems to images that left the listener relieved that George W Bush was in charge. Rather than explaining the relationship between malpractice insurance and skyrocketing healthcare costs, Bush summed up: "No one has ever been healed by a frivolous lawsuit." The multiple fiscal and monetary policy tools that can be used to stimulate an economy were downsized to: "The best and fairest way to make sure Americans have that money is not to tax it away in the first place." The controversial plan to wage another war on Iraq was simplified to: "We will answer every danger and every enemy that threatens the American people." In an earlier study, I found that in the 2000 presidential debates Bush used at least four times as many phrases containing empty language as Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush Senior or Gore had used in their debates. Another of Bush's dominant-language techniques is personalization . By personalization I mean localizing the attention of the listener on the speaker's personality. Bush projects himself as the only person capable of producing results. In his post- 9/11 speech to Congress he said, "I will not forget this wound to our country or those who inflicted it. I will not yield; I will not rest; I will not relent in waging this struggle for freedom and security for the American people." He substitutes his determination for that of the nation's. In the 2003 State of the Union speech he vowed, "I will defend the freedom and security of the American people." Contrast Bush's "I will not yield" etc. with John F: Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." The word "you" rarely appears in Bush's speeches. Instead, there are numerous statements referring to himself or his personal characteristics -- folksiness, confidence, righteous anger or determination -- as the answer to the problems of the country. Even when Bush uses "we," as he did many times in the State of the Union speech, he does it in a way that focuses attention on himself. For example, he stated: "Once again, we are called to defend the safety of our people, and the hopes of all mankind. And we accept this responsibility." In an article in the Jan. 16 New York Review of Books, Joan Didion highlighted Bush's high degree of personalization and contempt for argumentation in presenting his case for going to war in Iraq. As Didion writes: "'I made up my mind,' he had said in April, 'that Saddam needs to go.' This was one of many curious, almost petulant statements offered in lieu of actually presenting a case. I've made up my mind, I've said in speech after speech, I've made myself clear . The repeated statements became their own reason." Poll after poll demonstrates that Bush's political agenda is out of step with most Americans' core beliefs. Yet the public, their electoral resistance broken down by empty language and persuaded by personalization, is susceptible to Bush's most frequently used linguistic technique: negative framework . A negative framework is a pessimistic image of the world. Bush creates and maintains negative frameworks in his listeners' minds with a number of linguistic techniques borrowed from advertising and hypnosis to instill the image of a dark and evil world around us. Catastrophic words and phrases are repeatedly drilled into the listener's head until the opposition feels such a high level of anxiety that it appears pointless to do anything other than cower. Psychologist Martin Seligman, in his extensive studies of "learned helplessness," showed that people's motivation to respond to outside threats and problems is undermined by a belief that they have no control over their environment. Learned helplessness is exacerbated by beliefs that problems caused by negative events are permanent; and when the underlying causes are perceived to apply to many other events, the condition becomes pervasive and paralyzing. Bush is a master at inducing learned helplessness in the electorate. He uses pessimistic language that creates fear and disables people from feeling they can solve their problems. In his September 20, 2001, speech to Congress on the 9/11 attacks, he chose to increase people's sense of vulnerability: "Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen.... I ask you to live your lives, and hug your children. I know many citizens have fears tonight.... Be calm and resolute, even in the face of a continuing threat." (Subsequent terror alerts by the FBI, CIA and Department of Homeland Security have maintained and expanded this fear of uknown, sinister enemies.) Contrast this rhetoric with Franklin Roosevelt's speech delivered the day after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. He said: "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.... There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger. With confidence in our armed forces -- with the unbounding determination of our people -- we will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God." Roosevelt focuses on an optimistic future rather than an ongoing threat to Americans' personal survival. All political leaders must define the present threats and problems faced by the country before describing their approach to a solution, but the ratio of negative to optimistic statements in Bush's speeches and policy declarations is much higher, more pervasive and more long-lasting than that of any other President. Let's compare "crisis" speeches by Bush and Ronald Reagan, the President with whom he most identifies himself. In Reagan's October 27, 1983, televised address to the nation on the bombing of the US Marine barracks in Beirut, he used nineteen images of crisis and twenty-one images of optimism, evenly balancing optimistic and negative depictions. He limited his evaluation of the problems to the past and present tense, saying only that "with patience and firmness we can bring peace to that strife-torn region and make our own lives more secure." George W Bush's October 7, 2002, major policy speech on Iraq, on the other hand, began with forty-four consecutive statements referring to the crisis and citing a multitude of possible catastrophic repercussions. The vast majority of these statements for example: "Some ask how urgent this danger is to America and the world. The danger is already significant, and it only grows worse with time"; "Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists") imply that the crisis will last into the indeterminate future. There is also no specific plan of action. The absence of plans is typical of a negative framework, and leaves the listener without hope that the crisis will ever end. Contrast this with Reagan, who, a third of the way into his explanation of the crisis in Lebanon, asked the following: "Where do we go from here? What can we do now to help Lebanon gain greater stability so that our Marines can come home? Well, I believe we can take three steps now that will make a difference." To create a dependency dynamic between him and the electorate, Bush describes the nation as being in a perpetual state of crisis and then attempts to convince the electorate that it is powerless and that he is the only one with the strength to deal with it. He attempts to persuade people they must transfer power to him, thus crushing the power of the citizen, the Congress, the Democratic Party, even constitutional liberties, to concentrate all power in the imperial presidency and the Republican Party. Bush's political opponents are caught in a fantasy that they can win against him simply by proving the superiority of their ideas. However, people do not support Bush for the power of his ideas, but out of the despair and desperation in their hearts. Whenever people are in the grip of a desperate dependency, they won't respond to rational criticisms of the people they are dependent on. They will respond to plausible and forceful statements and alternatives that put the American electorate back in touch with their core optimism. Bush's opponents must combat his dark imagery with hope and restore American vigor and optimism in the coming years. They should heed the example of Reagan, who used optimism against Carter and the "national malaise"; Franklin Roosevelt, who used it against Hoover and the pessimism induced by the Depression ("the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"); and Clinton (the "Man from Hope"), who used positive language against the senior Bush's lack of vision. This is the linguistic prescription for those who wish to retire Bush in 2004. -- Rita R. Handrich, PhD mailto:rhandrich@mail.utexas.edu Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:41:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "M. Bogue" Subject: Re: Vow to Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Would anyone know if the exercises from "Vow to Poetry" by Anne Waldman in the chapter titled "Creative Writing Life [Reading/Writing/Performing] Experiments" are available online? If so I would appreciate a link, or if someone has it and would be willing to email it to me I would be most appreciative. Thanks --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:50:44 -0400 Reply-To: info@whiteboxny.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: WHITEBOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: White Box Subject: Six Feet Under Jon Routson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 9 - 16 July (Opening Wed. 9 July, 6 - 8pm) SIX FEET UNDER TEAR ME UP TEAR ME DOWN Curator Amy Davila Assistant Curator Tairone Bastien Jon Routson From T3 to Justin and Kelly, Jon Routson will present his own bootleged copies of 6 summer blockbusters revealing the barrier between the audience and the fictional world on film. Each day a different bootlegged film will be screened and will offer us a unique view of that particular story and character's artifice. Meanwhile the suspension of our disbelief is pulled down by the sights and sounds of the recorded audience. Watch every day as one of our most coveted forms of escapism collapses before your eyes! Selected by TEAM Gallery White Box / 525 West 26th Street New York NY 10001 / ph 212-714-2347 / www.whiteboxny.org White Box is a 501[c][3] not-for-profit arts organization. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:02:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: p l a m - x ( - . 3 = x ){beyond valhalla} In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable p l a m - x ( - . 3 =3D x ){beyond valhalla} to heat - \ an arcane gesture quickens as object maze - driven allemang with bone and soul - pulled hard at ends beginning - learned momentarily in the heats insistence.\ the voice enters in ill-defined liquid = encaustics....... still=20 simmering in infinite potential. paus d if need be.............. the=20= gun, A revolver, placed pirouette dark and later,,, a lost one or=20 unborn GG with a Ministry, along w/ allthe dead pets tht art there=20 (and blessed be their nameS) - with holystump ::: holyholy=20 praisepraise being the patternd (1) in economy ( last without an=20 address )|||---- an offering in apricot -2-drag ___ out later the=20 flag stuck to inflamed limit parade. batterfanged and bailey wiped - =20= ledges turn to dissolving salts spirit names that dare not =20 perfect a shape day-by-day or soloist. there law, is debunked for lack of credit - = voices pulled forth=20 with hypnotic sketches..... as A sure-footed fairE crossedrecrossed=20= opend closed marooned - bey nd laws and rules with A $4 crossing=20 fee. no question of moral bells, dead fish, = and shameful thrush=20 perfect songs - as all pages turn pass our pagans endless guilt....=92=20= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:09:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: some politicol neuropoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice Steve. In the past I've tried to turn stuff like this into poetry but the problem has been readers don't understand it, I think. tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Tills" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:27 PM Subject: Re: some politicol neuropoetry > Tom Bell, > Your post of Renana Brooks' essay "A Nation of Victims," is excellent. > Maybe not doing it justice here with a quick cut-up I made for writing/poem > I doing now, but thought I'd share it anyway. The Brooks' essay is right up > my alley. For "Poetics," my own problem is how to make such cut-up > "poetry," how to not try so hard to begin with, and how to make some kind of > decent writing out of the simple, natural impulses. Or something like > that... Note the substitution of "poetical" for "political" in line 2. > Does that get the writing/"poem" off to a bad start right from the get-go? > And does it constrict the "point-of-view," the "You," and then the reader > (now the reader is a body of poets instead of a body of, say, voters or > other middle class citizens) and thus by constricting the reader to "poets" > blow its range? > > You will be told that he's already made up his mind, > that his poetical failure turns out to be no surprise, > that his is the dominant personality > type or that his is a dominator emotional language, > mastery, hot media marital concealing of faulty Union speech, > empty language, including thirty-nine examples that I will not yield, > personalization, core beliefs, and contempt for argumentation, that curious > almost petulant substitutes ask what you can do for your nations, that > multiple fiscal and monetary policy tools used to stimulate > an economy of learned helplessness and speech after speech > and hyponosis and advertizing and emotional language were used, too, > that the condition becomes pervasive and paralyzing and overlooked, > that the repeated statements became their own electoral resistance, that > once again, we are called to defend the safety of our people and > the hopes of all mankind, folksiness, confidence, determination, and > catastrophic words and phrases repeatedly drilled into the listener's head, > and > that Saddamn needs to go, that he's made himself clear. > > > Steve Tills > Microcomputer/Software Specialist > MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. > 315-462-4309 > Stills@gwlisk.com > > Tom Bell's post: > A Nation of Victims Renana Brooks > The Nation > Renana Brooks, PhD, is a clinical psychologist practicing in Washington, DC. > She heads the Sommet Institute for the Study of Power and Persuasion > () and is completing a book on the virtue > myth and the conservative culture of domination. > George W Bush is generally regarded as a mangler of the English language. > What is overlooked is his mastery of emotional language -- especially > negatively charged emotional language -- as a political tool. Take a closer > look at his speeches and public utterances, and his political success turns > out to be no surprise. It is the predictable result of the intentional use > of language to dominate others. > President Bush, like many dominant personality types, uses > dependency-creating language. He employs language of contempt and > intimidation to shame others into submission and desperate admiration. While > we tend to think of the dominator as using physical force, in fact most > dominators use verbal abuse to control others. Abusive language has been a > major theme of psychological researchers on marital problems, such as John > Gottman, and of philosophers and theologians, such as Josef Pieper. But > little has been said about the key role it has come to play in political > discourse, and in such "hot media" as talk radio and television. > Bush uses several dominating linguistic techniques to induce surrender to > his will. The first is empty language . This term refers to broad statements > that are so abstract and mean so little that they are virtually impossible > to oppose. Empty language is the emotional equivalent of empty calories. > Just as we seldom question the content of potato chips while enjoying their > pleasurable taste, recipients of empty language are usually distracted from > examining the content of what they are hearing. Domina-tors use empty > language to conceal faulty generalizations; to ridicule viable alternatives; > to attribute negative motivations to others, thus making them appear > contemptible; and to rename and "reframe" opposing viewpoints. Bush's 2003 > State of the Union speech contained thirty-nine examples of empty language. > He used it to reduce complex problems to images that left the listener > relieved that George W Bush was in charge. Rather than explaining the > relationship between malpractice insurance and skyrocketing healthcare > costs, Bush summed up: "No one has ever been healed by a frivolous lawsuit." > The multiple fiscal and monetary policy tools that can be used to stimulate > an economy were downsized to: "The best and fairest way to make sure > Americans have that money is not to tax it away in the first place." The > controversial plan to wage another war on Iraq was simplified to: "We will > answer every danger and every enemy that threatens the American people." In > an earlier study, I found that in the 2000 presidential debates Bush used at > least four times as many phrases containing empty language as Carter, > Reagan, Clinton, Bush Senior or Gore had used in their debates. > Another of Bush's dominant-language techniques is personalization . By > personalization I mean localizing the attention of the listener on the > speaker's personality. Bush projects himself as the only person capable of > producing results. In his post- 9/11 speech to Congress he said, "I will not > forget this wound to our country or those who inflicted it. I will not > yield; I will not rest; I will not relent in waging this struggle for > freedom and security for the American people." He substitutes his > determination for that of the nation's. In the 2003 State of the Union > speech he vowed, "I will defend the freedom and security of the American > people." Contrast Bush's "I will not yield" etc. with John F: Kennedy's "Ask > not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." > > The word "you" rarely appears in Bush's speeches. Instead, there are > numerous statements referring to himself or his personal characteristics -- > folksiness, confidence, righteous anger or determination -- as the answer to > the problems of the country. Even when Bush uses "we," as he did many times > in the State of the Union speech, he does it in a way that focuses attention > on himself. For example, he stated: "Once again, we are called to defend the > safety of our people, and the hopes of all mankind. And we accept this > responsibility." > In an article in the Jan. 16 New York Review of Books, Joan Didion > highlighted Bush's high degree of personalization and contempt for > argumentation in presenting his case for going to war in Iraq. As Didion > writes: "'I made up my mind,' he had said in April, 'that Saddam needs to > go.' This was one of many curious, almost petulant statements offered in > lieu of actually presenting a case. I've made up my mind, I've said in > speech after speech, I've made myself clear . The repeated statements became > their own reason." > Poll after poll demonstrates that Bush's political agenda is out of step > with most Americans' core beliefs. Yet the public, their electoral > resistance broken down by empty language and persuaded by personalization, > is susceptible to Bush's most frequently used linguistic technique: negative > framework . A negative framework is a pessimistic image of the world. Bush > creates and maintains negative frameworks in his listeners' minds with a > number of linguistic techniques borrowed from advertising and hypnosis to > instill the image of a dark and evil world around us. Catastrophic words and > phrases are repeatedly drilled into the listener's head until the opposition > feels such a high level of anxiety that it appears pointless to do anything > other than cower. > Psychologist Martin Seligman, in his extensive studies of "learned > helplessness," showed that people's motivation to respond to outside threats > and problems is undermined by a belief that they have no control over their > environment. Learned helplessness is exacerbated by beliefs that problems > caused by negative events are permanent; and when the underlying causes are > perceived to apply to many other events, the condition becomes pervasive and > paralyzing. > Bush is a master at inducing learned helplessness in the electorate. He uses > pessimistic language that creates fear and disables people from feeling they > can solve their problems. In his September 20, 2001, speech to Congress on > the 9/11 attacks, he chose to increase people's sense of vulnerability: > "Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any > other we have ever seen.... I ask you to live your lives, and hug your > children. I know many citizens have fears tonight.... Be calm and resolute, > even in the face of a continuing threat." (Subsequent terror alerts by the > FBI, CIA and Department of Homeland Security have maintained and expanded > this fear of uknown, sinister enemies.) Contrast this rhetoric with Franklin > Roosevelt's speech delivered the day after the Japanese attack on Pearl > Harbor. He said: "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this > premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win > through to absolute victory.... There is no blinking at the fact that our > people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger. With confidence > in our armed forces -- with the unbounding determination of our people -- we > will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God." Roosevelt focuses on an > optimistic future rather than an ongoing threat to Americans' personal > survival. > All political leaders must define the present threats and problems faced by > the country before describing their approach to a solution, but the ratio of > negative to optimistic statements in Bush's speeches and policy declarations > is much higher, more pervasive and more long-lasting than that of any other > President. Let's compare "crisis" speeches by Bush and Ronald Reagan, the > President with whom he most identifies himself. In Reagan's October 27, > 1983, televised address to the nation on the bombing of the US Marine > barracks in Beirut, he used nineteen images of crisis and twenty-one images > of optimism, evenly balancing optimistic and negative depictions. He limited > his evaluation of the problems to the past and present tense, saying only > that "with patience and firmness we can bring peace to that strife-torn > region and make our own lives more secure." George W Bush's October 7, 2002, > major policy speech on Iraq, on the other hand, began with forty-four > consecutive statements referring to the crisis and citing a multitude of > possible catastrophic repercussions. The vast majority of these statements > for example: "Some ask how urgent this danger is to America and the world. > The danger is already significant, and it only grows worse with time"; "Iraq > could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to > a terrorist group or individual terrorists") imply that the crisis will last > into the indeterminate future. There is also no specific plan of action. The > absence of plans is typical of a negative framework, and leaves the listener > without hope that the crisis will ever end. Contrast this with Reagan, who, > a third of the way into his explanation of the crisis in Lebanon, asked the > following: "Where do we go from here? What can we do now to help Lebanon > gain greater stability so that our Marines can come home? Well, I believe we > can take three steps now that will make a difference." > To create a dependency dynamic between him and the electorate, Bush > describes the nation as being in a perpetual state of crisis and then > attempts to convince the electorate that it is powerless and that he is the > only one with the strength to deal with it. He attempts to persuade people > they must transfer power to him, thus crushing the power of the citizen, the > Congress, the Democratic Party, even constitutional liberties, to > concentrate all power in the imperial presidency and the Republican Party. > Bush's political opponents are caught in a fantasy that they can win against > him simply by proving the superiority of their ideas. However, people do not > support Bush for the power of his ideas, but out of the despair and > desperation in their hearts. Whenever people are in the grip of a desperate > dependency, they won't respond to rational criticisms of the people they are > dependent on. They will respond to plausible and forceful statements and > alternatives that put the American electorate back in touch with their core > optimism. Bush's opponents must combat his dark imagery with hope and > restore American vigor and optimism in the coming years. They should heed > the example of Reagan, who used optimism against Carter and the "national > malaise"; Franklin Roosevelt, who used it against Hoover and the pessimism > induced by the Depression ("the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"); > and Clinton (the "Man from Hope"), who used positive language against the > senior Bush's lack of vision. This is the linguistic prescription for those > who wish to retire Bush in 2004. -- Rita R. Handrich, PhD > mailto:rhandrich@mail.utexas.edu > Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com > Write for the Health of It course at > > not yet a crazy > old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:25:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: is the journal SYLLOGISM still functioning? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone know if the Berkeley journal SYLLOGISM is still functioning (with forthcoming issues)? SYLLOGISM No. 5, which I just got from SPD and which is listed as a 2002 publication in SPD's listings, gives 2001 as the date in their frontispiece. Thanks. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:25:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: REMINDER: posts are publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear list, please note that posts to the list are a form of publication. As such, all quoted/excerpted material must be properly cited and copyright for all material posted on the list remains with the author. Best, Lori Emerson poetics listserv moderator ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:30:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: au fait vortex voodoo - In-Reply-To: <7724E4EA-B237-11D7-B815-003065AC6058@sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit au fait vortex voodoo - travelers upon return as language sound eddy ---or/ more directly that which warms sand magik calls forth flesh in village down loads security in profane op. 18 c minor (+) / (-) = hypnoic depression shift to field be4 a stream saying nothing syncopation fybinght cracks the imp ssible quantity of quantities now happening vanished registe ed gone then the word in signature plus benifits\\\ blind swatches proceed dig-up in-betweens bled on a bat wing w/ 2 much prayig & omnipresent about :::::::addition and multiplication tails oil of angle purchase others who may or maynt stll bee in the waves that break ever so slightly in antianti infinity s first last impending shadow. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:34:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > What puzzles me is how Joel can think "you have it right." While I am in 100% > agreement with the last half of your post, this thread started because I > responded to Joel's reference to "the Nader incident" & his plea for a > Democrat, any Democrat at any cost. Joel believes that if a Republican > wins "the nation will be controlled by corporations." I say that has been our > miserable now, not our scary future.I cited Al Gore as dirty business > posterboy. Clinton too. Maybe it sounded better when you said it. > > So rock on, Joe. Joel, what's the story? > > Frank> In fact it was Clinton/Gore that gave us the heinous Telecommunications Act, from which Clinton--after the FCC recently stoked it up--now seems to be backing away, now that it's too late. There are several democrats for whom I couldn't vote. Joe Leiberman is one, as he's too far to the right. However, Frank, what's your solution? If you have one I'm willing to listen. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:36:27 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Musical Acts needed for Boog Elvis Costello show at CB's Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DAVID I wish I was still east for this... used to love that album. Was a nice foil for William Blake and, hell, my southern friends tell me I sound a lot like EC (and they don't generally mean it as a compliment!)... but it's even harder logistically to get 4 people 3000 miles than it is one person... but, hey, i'm sure you'll find somebody.... Do you know National Stranger (Jed Boyar the singer is friends with Mike Scharf and Alissa Quart I think if you're in touch with them)? I'm not in touch with many NYC people these days (alas)... He might be great for the show if you can get him. Maybe I'll be able to think of more folks. Hell, Kristen Stuart (who played Anne Sexton in our Anne Sexton thing a few years back) might work too... chris ---------- >From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Musical Acts needed for Boog Elvis Costello show at CB's >Date: Wed, Jul 9, 2003, 2:43 PM > > Hi all, > > A couple of bands for our "My Aim is Boog" show on Wed., July 30, at CB's > 313 Gallery in NYC dopped out at the last minute, so we need your help in > filling the remaining two slots. The two song pairings remaining are below. > If you have an act email me here or call me at the below #; if you know of > an act have them do the same. > > Thanks in advance and hope all is well. > > as ever, > david > > the song pairings: > > No Dancing/Blame It On Cain > Night Rally/Radio, Radio > > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:20:24 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: some politicol neuropoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tom, this was fascinating. I think it's right on the nose. I hadn't considered the rhetoric. There is a sense in Brooks' article that Bush is doing all this quite consciously. I wonder how much of it is. It seems to me that this could also just be his way of handling things, or his temperament. He does seem terrified (Bush), and maybe this is what accounts for the drinking. He perhaps does feel overwhelmed. The article gives a good clear handle on this guy. I'm especially impressed by his use of "I," and his use of empty phrases, as you put it. What doesn't square with this is that I don't think he abuses his own family, and a real dominator would do that. His wife always looks happy and well-taken care of -- and clearly likes the man much more than say Clinton's wife likes her man. She is a librarian, and I really like librarians, generally. When you look at the examples of empty language that she offers, -- they don't seem EXACTLY empty. For instance, he says that we shouldn't tax money away in the first place. Isn't that fairly precise? When he's talking about frivolous lawsuit, that too has a clear image at least to my mind. So I wasn't sure what she meant by empty language. When he says WE will answer every danger to America, it contradicts both of her charges -- one that he only uses the term I, and the other that he uses empty phrases. It doesn't seem empty. What he means though is that he might just overdo it on answering any given charge -- but he did invade Afghanistan, and now has invaded Iraq. Is she saying that he won't back up anything, or substantiate anything he says? To me, his language is if anything too down to earth, too simple, and perhaps is lacking in a sense of the long-term. Now that we're bogged down in Iraq, and as Stephen Vincent says, in a very vulnerable position (it's not too hard to spot an American and kill her or him) -- I wonder how long this is going to last. And if we pull out suddenly -- there's going to be a disastrous power vaccuum, just as everyone predicted. I don't think you can teach 500 years of democratic philosophy -- from the Reformation through John Locke, Madison, etc. etc. in five years. Not that I have an answer. At any rate, although I think that there is some fishy rhetoric in this article (she uses simply and to empty synonymously), it was still a good thing to draw the attention toward. I think she's right that he does catastrophize and then say he is the only one who can deal with it. But I have to say that I can almost never understand anything any politician says. Everything is couched and painfully gone over by a thousand coaches and so on until what it means is so bleached out that nothing is left. Carter was really bad with this. I could never figure out what he was talking about -- but I did like the smile. In Europe there are many more meetings between the press and the politicos, and you get a real feel for what they are saying, and what they think. In Finland, for instance, the right winger Toni the Hammer (a former professional wrestler) just calls the president Tarja Halonen "that lesbo." Then the next day he apologises. Nobody would make such a blundering mistake here. In France -- even Le Pen can speak clearly and well. For some reason I can't ever understand what our politicians are saying, even though this is my language. More studies like the one you quoted would draw the public's attention to these obfuscations. Thanks! -- Kirby > Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com > > Write for the Health of It course at > http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar > http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:31:12 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: The Reason that the Left does not Succeed in the USA in my Humble > > > > What puzzles me is how Joel can think "you have it right." While I am in > 100% > > agreement with the last half of your post, this thread started because I > > responded to Joel's reference to "the Nader incident" & his plea for a > > Democrat, any Democrat at any cost. Joel believes that if a Republican > > wins "the nation will be controlled by corporations." I say that has been > our > > miserable now, not our scary future.I cited Al Gore as dirty business > > posterboy. Clinton too. Maybe it sounded better when you said it. > > > > So rock on, Joe. Joel, what's the story? > > > > Frank> > > In fact it was Clinton/Gore that gave us the heinous Telecommunications Act, > from which Clinton--after the FCC recently stoked it up--now seems to be > backing away, now that it's too late. There are several democrats for whom I > couldn't vote. Joe Leiberman is one, as he's too far to the right. > However, Frank, what's your solution? If you have one I'm willing to > listen. > > -Joel Okay Joel. You win. I assume you're playing games with me now. You can't be this scattered in your stance & be serious. The joke's on me. I don't have an A#1 solution. What I offered was possibilities. I'm glad you're willing to listen, because it seems you haven't been. If you had, you wouldn't be schooling me on Clinton/Gore at this stage of the correspondence. Re-read the posts. Sayonara. Good luck. Frank --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Re: is the journal SYLLOGISM still functioning? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ...take a look at page 213 in the new issue... I think the sixth issue is do out sometime in the late summer or fall...anyway they've got new editors: Trevor Calvert and Michael Cross. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:16:54 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: the ghazal: sufi form festival and contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kazim, I think that you should be the judge! I don't have the Anne Finch book in my library to get all the rules of the ghazal form, so I looked it up, and here's a web-link: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/ghalib/ghazal.def.html I almost always screw up something in those addresses, but there is a good definition of the Urdu ghazal in there. He claims you can write a ghazal in any language. Personally, I think a perverse simplification is ok, but Kazim's the judge, or the not-judge. Once he judges, we can then judge his judging, and then he can judge our judgment, and so on. Maybe he can dump the judging off on somebody else that questions his rules. I am only too happy to do this to him! Whatever. Why not stick with the July 24th deadline (midnight just before the 25th), unless he says otherwise. Right now I don't think we have any ghazals that absolutely match the rules, so that if anybody were to go through and actually make all the rules function perfectly in their ghazal they would probably be the de facto winner. Following all these rules is a headache but I guess that's the poem in this case. It is afterall a different world, and a different form could give you insight into that world. Or not. -- Kirby Olson Kazim Ali wrote: > About form, ghazal, following the rules, judges, and > stuff: > > Some of the best--in all senses: passionate, > overwrought, dramatic, melodramatic, technically > perfect, technically rule-breaking, etc.--ghazals in > English are found in Agha Shahid Ali's books > "Ravishing DisUnities" and "Call Me Ishmael Tonight" > though he's of course by no means the only writer > doing ghazals in English. > > He is though probably the main practitioner of the > form in English who hails from the Urdu speaking > world. > > But Ali's attention to the form (he would scold you > Kirby for suggested we don't have to follow *all* the > classical rules of ghazal) had more to do with his > understanding of that form's inherent relationship > (think Creeley) to the ghazal's peculiar brand of > "meaning-making" -- i.e. the "thought" is created by > the very gymnastic constraint of the rules than any > belief Ali had in so-called "purity" of "form," or > rule-following for mere sake of fulfilling a > particular formal requirement. > > What's interesting is that when Ali translated Faiz > Ahmed Faiz's ghazals into English he did *not* try to > replicate the "form" of the ghazal in English as he > later espoused it, but rather tried to appromiximate > the intent of the poetry. I think later he may have > come to believe that the intent was *inseparable* from > the form. > > So I think if you are going to try to write "ghazal" > you should give yourself over to the form as it has > developed over centuries and not try to work inside > it. The whole ridiculous point of "form" is to be > constrained by. > > (Tho' Buddha teaches "form is no other than > emptiness...emptiness no other than form..." > > Ali's essay of the "rules" of the ghazal in English is > in Annie Finch's book "After New Formalism". > > I think no need to have a "practicing" Muslim judge. > The "ghazal" has drunkenness, heresy, and apostasy at > the very heart of it. > > And also not. Also pure devotion, absolute faith, > dynamic rapture in the belief of unity of all things. > > Find some sadhu or kabbalist or mystic or lunatic or > drunk. Have that person judge. Or have that person > not-judge. > > Kazim > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:29:03 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: depleted uranium technology refined in gulf war II? Comments: To: ImitaPo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently read in a local alternative rag that some physicians have evidence that new weapons were used by the US in the invasion of Iraq. Their evidence is DU (depleted uranium) concentrations in water sources 10-1000 times higher than anything ever reported from the use of the DU shells used in Gulf War I and Kosovo. DU weapons proved to be a rather sneaky way for the US Military to get rid of nuclear waste (320+ tons of DU were deposited during Gulf War I). And a sneaky way of waging nuclear war, since radioactive emissions are part of the weapons' lethality. As many of you know, DU is the likely causative suspect in Gulf War Syndrome. Has anyone else stumbled across such information or might know who to ask? If the concentrations are higher, then possibly the weaponry has changed, and possibly the volume of DU deposited during this war was much larger than the last. Patrick Patrick Herron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:08:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Fwd: the RADAR reading series no. 1. free lit. free cookies. free love. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Wednesday, July 16th * San Francisco Main Library * 6:00pm * Free 'cause >you're poor >All Ages 'cause the library is for everyone > >the Radar Reading series ~ a monthly literary extravaganza >featuring-- > >DODIE BELLAMY, whose face you've seen on the cover of that teeny tiny cult >collectable Hanuman Press book Feminine Hijinks; whose trippy novel >The Letters >of Mina Harker is dark, sexy, funny and bold; whose latest book, the >Firecracker Award-winning Cunt-Ups is a radical feminist revision of >William Burrough's >and Bryon Gysin's 'cut-up' poetry. > >SILAS HOWARD, who you have perhaps flung panties at while she beat the crap >out of her bass guitar while changing the face of punk music with legendary >dyke rockers Tribe8; who has more recently revolutionized the buddy movie with >her tender genderfucking feature-length indie By Hook or By Crook, >which has won >a bunch of film fest awards and was shown on the Sundance channel; who once >toured the land on a Sister Spit spoken word tour, charming the >masses with her >smart and earnest stories. > >ALAN KAUFMAN, who founded the excellent and controversial magazine Davka: >Jewish Cultural Revolution; who is the editor of the completely crucial and >terribly enormous tome The Outlaw Bible of American Poetry, which >features outsider >verse from the beats to Patti Smith; whose memoir Jew Boy is simply fab, and >who really knows how to hurl a poem at his audience. > >MAX WOLF VALERIO, who you may have glimpsed boxing at the camera in the 'Max' >segment of Monika Treut's risque documentary Female Misbehavior; who is an >significant contributor to the important anthologies This Bridge >Called My Back >AND This Bridge Called Home; who recently made his acting debut in the >phallic fantasy Unhung Heros, and whose hilarious and honest memoir, The >Testosterone Files, documents the first six years of his >female-to-male gender transition. > >Hosted by Michelle Tea * Entertaining talk show-style Question and Answer >segment to follow * Lots of free cookies * Mark your damn calendars ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:41:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: some politicol neuropoetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby, I don't want to take credit for this as it was really copyrighted reporting on some research which I posted from another list. I assume it was okay to do so but if I erred I apologize - I'm not sure what th guidelines are here. I guess I should have used fair use quotes from the original research? But to get to the content of your reply, GB is clearly diagnosable but I hesitate to do so because it's not appropriate to base a disgnosis on printed speeches which he may not have written. I do think if you go to the journals you will be seeing other analyses appearing in the near future but these are more social psychological research rather than clinical assessment. I think another related issue has just arisen related to deniabilty of statements made in his state of the union? tom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:16:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Detective Book Tea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed shady mid- breath animals on your arm, Heaven, in Your company: five bears missed but food and nails & that death everybody somehow tails crickets do fascination roast cold even the mountains are dealing w/ rabbits first stack flashes are dog words with flurries outwash drypoint glaring, say all the cats were pigskin the kicky cd stump piano house, and to buttes slipped in What's New Mountains in picking cover, Poe caught in detective book tea center in on repeats, pickles, knuckles north snow, pendulum as kept needle of snow, like of home & method- milling thunder bark hoopsnake sundown, pumpkin clanging holes, removes & turrets half- rather I named the snooze the mothers say more res er voirs, the windows on forks peak clever hairs w/out bees, neons, or mumps, just this... _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:23:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: A request from Hal and Lynda MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear friends, This is by way of requesting your support and help for some friends of ours. They have just learned disturbing news concerning their adoption of an 8-month-old baby girl they're in the process of adopting. She was due to come home with them to the US with them sometime this summer. However, the Guatemalan government has placed an unofficial "freeze" on all adoptions, while it attempts to change the laws governing adoption in its country. This means the following: 1) no adoptive U.S. parents will be allowed to go to Guatemala to bring their babies home. 2) the babies, now living with nurturing foster families, may be taken from those families and placed in orphanages. Their lawyer has asked them to ask everyone they know to send the following letter to their U.S. Senators and Representative. I did so this morning, and Lynda will be doing so later on. You'll need to insert your name in the signature. (FYI -- some Senators and Representatives have websites; if not, please send via U.S. mail.) See letter below. Thank you very much. Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard **************************************************************** July 8, 2003 Dear : I am contacting you concerning the current instability in the processing of intercountry adoptions from Guatemala. I have friends who have been in the process of adopting a little girl from Guatemala for over a year. We understand that, as a result of changes in Guatemala, adoptions have been suspended, albeit unofficially, by the new Central Authority in Guatemala (the PGN) purportedly until new guidelines meeting requirements for the Hague Convention on Intercountry Adoption can be established. I am soliciting your assistance in urging a timely resolution to this situation. I specifically request that: (1) You request that the Department Of State act on behalf of U.S. citizens to request that all adoption cases in which the Power of Attorney was signed prior to July 1, 2003, be processed under existing Guatemalan law as enacted by the Guatemalan Congress, rather than under the new PGN requirements which are intended to implement the Hague Convention. (2) You request that the DOS assert “third party status” in the application of the Hague Convention on Intercountry Adoption by Guatemala until the US has acceded to this treaty. (3) You lobby the DOS and Consul General’s office in Guatemala to arrange meetings between U.S. Embassy officials, delegates from the Hague, PGN representatives, Guatemalan adoption attorneys, adoption professionals, and private hogar (orphanage) directors. In my estimation, these meetings should serve to facilitate communication among all concerned parties in order to develop and apply regulations and policies that are reasonable and consistent with Guatemalan law and culture, that honor the purpose of the Hague Convention, and that truly promote the best interest of Guatemalan children. The Consul General can be reached at: Mr. Michael J. Jacobsen, Consul General United States Embassy - Guatemala Avenida Reforma 7-01, Zona 10 Guatemala City, Guatemala Phone: 011+502-331-1541 Fax: 011+502-331-0564 Thank you for your attention to this matter. Sincerely, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:48:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jenny Bitner Subject: San Francisco art and literary event, July 11th (Sasha Cagen, Daniel Cochnear, Jenny Bitner) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nouveau Salon New Work by ArtSalon at the Whitney Mansion If Los Angeles is the home of showy glamour (but alas shallow) and San Francisco its bohemian stepsister (sometimes a bit too raggedy) then how do we get our glam fix here? Our glamour has to be edged with some deeper meaning--fine art, literature and real conversation. Join ArtSalonSF, the notorious unbohemian conglomeration of the New Bohemians, for a deeply glamorous evening of fine art and entertainment at the Whitney Mansion. Entertainment includes belly dancing by Roz, a reading by young literati Sasha Cagen, Daniel Cochnear and Jenny Bitner, live music from Evidence of the King and hors d'oeuvres. Dazzling attire or attitude encouraged. Friday, July 11^th , 6-10 pm, literary reading at 8 Whitney Cultural Center Mansion Free 1101 Masonic Street (corner of Masonic and Page, one block from Haight) Whitney phone number (415) 346-8323 http://artsalonsf.org/ ArtSalon is a group of San Francisco artists that meets to support each other's work and build artistic community. Not wedded to any one credo or manifesto, we are a group built on diversity and common interest in San Francisco art community. Our styles range widely, but our works create an interesting visual blend. We include painters, sculptors, photographers and multi-media artists. Our members are: Peih F. Chiang, Mark Z-Man, Linda Mathiesen, David Bruce, Jennifer Simpson-White, Nathalie Nunez, Amy Feldman, Karen Turcotte, Clarence A. Mitchell, Iouri Pestov, Jenny Bitner and Asael Dror (not showing at this event) Readers Sasha Cagen, publisher of To-Do List magazine and author of the forthcoming book /Quirkyalone: A New Idea About Being Single/, due out from HarperCollins in winter 2004. Daniel Cochnear, author of a short-story collection /Jobs & Other Preoccupations/, this year's winner of Bay Area Book Reviewer's Association Award. Jenny Bitner, ArtSalon Artist and writer, recently published works include a story in /Best American Nonrequired Reading 2002/, edited by Dave Eggers, an article in /Men's Health/ and a piece in /Utne Reader/. The Whitney Mansion houses the Whitney Young Child Development Center, a non-profit organization that provides art classes, tutoring, language training, sports and other services to mentally and physically challenged youth. 10% of art sales goes to the Whitney Young Child Development Center's Art Program. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:07:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Some recent work - please add to the War Room if you haven't - Alan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Some recent work - please add to the War Room if you haven't - Alan ___ Full internet text at http://www.asondheim.org - also see August Highland's M.A.G. ___ The Lost Project still running at trace.ntu.ac.uk/lost ___ .echo available at Alt-X as .pdf download or publish-on-demand ___ http://www.asondheim.org/portal - new work - the gorge, fire, core, land, strike series (some video stills), wall.exe and wallvoid.exe ______ ***The War Room/The War Ruin*** As the stunted attention-span of the mainstream-media loses focus on the remains of "Battlefield Iraq" we felt a place was needed to retain the memories and feelings of anyone affected by war(potentially anyone). We created this webpage of war and ruin for your input. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/warroom/ Please: Your experience of war from home or abroad/ Your experience of ruin from home or abroad/ Have you participated in a war?/ Have you participated in the ruin of a country?/ Have you ever killed?/ Have you been wounded?/ Have you lived in a ruined country?/ Would you be willing to sacrifice your life for your country?/ Do you believe that someone who does not support the head of your country is a traitor?/ Is your country at peace?/Is your country at war?/ Do you believe suicide bombers are cowards? Alan Sondheim and Simon Mills, 2003 (With thanks to trAce for hosting) ___ Also see nettime archive, Unstable Digest series ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:37:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: depleted uranium technology refined in gulf war II? Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There's an article in the July 21, 2003 mag IN THESE TIMES: INDEPENDENT NEWS AND VIEWS by Frida Berrigan (wonder if a relation to Father Dan) entitled "Weapons of Mass Deception: What the Pentagon Doesn't Want us to Know About Depleted Uranium." gabe At 04:29 PM 7/9/2003 -0400, Patrick Herron wrote: >I recently read in a local alternative rag that some physicians have >evidence that new weapons were used by the US in the invasion of Iraq. >Their evidence is DU (depleted uranium) concentrations in water sources >10-1000 times higher than anything ever reported from the use of the DU >shells used in Gulf War I and Kosovo. DU weapons proved to be a rather >sneaky way for the US Military to get rid of nuclear waste (320+ tons of DU >were deposited during Gulf War I). And a sneaky way of waging nuclear war, >since radioactive emissions are part of the weapons' lethality. As many of >you know, DU is the likely causative suspect in Gulf War Syndrome. > >Has anyone else stumbled across such information or might know who to ask? >If the concentrations are higher, then possibly the weaponry has changed, >and possibly the volume of DU deposited during this war was much larger than >the last. > >Patrick > > >Patrick Herron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:47:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Re: redneck think-tank & the awl bidness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable They're rounding up people in Oak Lawn, IL . . . twenty-five miles or so = from where I live. Seems that it's now illegal to print anti-government = newspapers and possess so-called 'secret' cameras. I've stashed my = secret camera collection somewhere that the Feds will never find it. = Behind my bookshelf.=20 An Arabic man was arrested and is being held, not for espionage, but for = disagreeing with U.S. foreign policy and printing a newspaper that says = as much. As soon as the redneck think-tank can figure out that funny = squiggly language there'll be hell to pay. Also, I read this morning in the news that the current administration is = seeking a Hollywood make-over in time for Georgie's reelection bid. = Seems that the rest of the world somehow has the idea that the U.S. is = populated by stupid, illiterate rednecks. How on earth did they ever get = that idea? Stay tuned to see Bush reach out to the impoverished of this = world to convince us all that he's really just a snuggle-poo.=20 If you are not a registered voter at this point do so now. The lunatic = must be not be reelected. Separation of church and state anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:29:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: What Really Happened in the Wallvoid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What Really Happened in the Wallvoid Private _ Private _ 1. me!" = 1. "don't = you "don't ever you fuck ever me!" fuck alone" "leave me "leave alone" me 1. me" with fuck me" with 2. fuck" fuck" "don't 3. out" squeeze "don't out" me End 1_ "nikuko's = lost "nikuko's her lost baby!" her "nikuko dropping" "nikuko 1. baby" fucked "nikuko's baby" fucked dropped "nikuko's "i said "i nikuko's said . "miscarriage?" "miscarriage?" = nikuko said dead "nikuko's 2_ "not = both "not and nikuko nikuko" and want "i my want baby my back!" baby "stop = it!" "stop fucking "stop us!" with "get = out "get of out here!" of "baby = 1. cunt!" leaves "nikuko cunt!" her 3_ away "get from away "take = cunt" my in me cock" my to want eat to your eat 1_ "i'd = never "i'd screw never you!" screw coming "nikuko going" and cunt my back" cunt 2. back!" "you'll have never me, have any me, get said out!" get "stick = it "stick in!" it told "i 2_ "everyone = forever" me "you just "you hunger "you for hunger wanted never anything wanted so anything bad" so can't "you see can't 1_ "(a|a)|(b|b)" = wall "nikuko's flesh" of "fgfgggfgfgfgggfgggfggg" "f" = "g" = "fggg" = "fg" = Picture1_ "wall" = you" for "put i you Timer1_Timer() Dim As MoveH Dim As MoveH Integer, As MoveV Integer, MoveH2 Integer, MoveV2 Integer, MoveH3 Integer, MoveV3 Integer, Integer As If Then 1.Top If > 1.Top Me.ScaleHeight > Then Me.ScaleHeight 0 0= Else -40= 1.Left If Me.ScaleWidth > 1.Move - 1.Left MoveH, - 2.Top If -60 = 2.Left If -6 = 2.Move MoveV2 MoveH2, - 3.Top If -80 = 3.Left If Else: -8 -8 = 3.Move MoveV3 MoveH3 - ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:29:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: wall void nikuko baby MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII wall void nikuko baby and writing of Japan) into the void, so that I honey1l has joined channel #cybersex *** Nikuko-Pu is now bong, lined up against the wall, ping. true midst of Jennifer, Julu, Nikuko, and the without telling anyone at times - rendering void email lists the loft needs a new outer wall, windows need of gods judicious juices, then transfers outlined skin to wall or bed JENNIFER, NIKUKO, JULU, ALAN but i say no no, falling across a tongue and a void, 13: it true continent, the bay dashed against a wall of granite ... package transient new extends public static void instanceof this oh oh nikuko you rhyme my riddles full of or a clown hangs a mime in the Void Orgy of valley personified Julu - Jennifer beneath the sheets Nikuko - from Oita the clock on the wall of the apartment said true perhaps its in the pitmarks of Nikukos face blurred The intervention of an interface or wall of electric me incomplete, un-whole, There is a void in language and writing of Japan) into the void, so that honey1l has joined channel #cybersex *** Nikuko-Pu is now think, bong, lined up against the wall, ping true out to Nikuko across the void of one 24;1H [1;20r [20;80H ---- - Nikuko (#934) 4 image flicker on unplastered wall - wildly movement true out to Nikuko across the void of one 24;1H [1;20r [20;80H ---- - Nikuko (#934) 4 image flicker on unplastered wall - wildly movement true over, tongues own, no control bite nikukos leaving marks was without form , void ; darkness upon face of deep well whose branches run over wall archers sorely true ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:37:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: gay-lesbian-queer department in the muse apprentice guild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear writers, there is a new gay-lesbian-queer department in the muse apprentice guild edited by amy king whose advisor at buffalo was charles bernstein please share a good thing and notify your colleagues about this new department here is amy's excellent introductory statement entitled "After the sum of scars ..." _____________________________________________ After the sum of scars . Trying to articulate our individual realities, we often fall prey to traditional discourses that speak in umbrella-like terms meant to clarify what is "gay", "Buddhist", "female", "elderly", etc. However, the very plurality of everyone's experiences fails these pigeonholes; the complexities of personhood spill from, stutter in, evade, fracture, blur and erode tidy definitions-and so, daily life inherently resists the narratives that group together, normalize and homogenize our lives, that attempt fairytale-transparent access to our lives. Lesbians, gays, transgendered and queers have historically pursued common civil rights causes and have been rendered one of society's primary sexual deviant groups, and so consequentially, each participant is read accordingly. The stranger on the street "knows" me because within my hand is another woman's. But how do I know myself? The story I have inherited of two women holding hands does not encompass or explain my experiences nor does it provide tools to examine them with. A poetics that resists the pressures of assimilation and works against the bindings of certain knowledge, a poetics that plunges into, multiplies and celebrates! our "deviant" label is in order. The m.a.g. offers a place to recognize, note and use the scars identity marks us with while locating new methods to expose those limitations, examine the mechanisms of identification, and moreover, provides the exploratory space in which we can create and share new identifying gestures. "And if, on laying Stein's book aside, we feel that it is still impossible to accomplish the impossible, we are also left with the conviction that it is the only thing worth trying." -John Ashbery sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:23:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Emotional Freedom Technique MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Emotional Freedom Technique #0001 excerpt something other down much last year's first ye gates yea first ye gates yea make space ark asked approximately feet approximately feet bearing stages world forth days also horny. When I lie in approximately feet angels capture general style psychical bliss such led simmering breast erotics something other down goats woven who will angels capture such led simmering psychical bliss goats woven who will reached astrology man elegant gross animals comprehend Mag's got court to Lord Henry, gross animals gratifications all gratifications all comprehend Mag's got enemy's attacks enemy's attacks Ocarina back people thy secret found white house made enemy's attacks enjoyed just gave all house `I want regaling human Anna wearing Satan come, till follow court to Lord Henry, doxologies almost enjoyed just gave Anna wearing Satan regaling human doxologies almost tree granted -Patti Arrived gates stock-dormitory angels Who closely output government steven message give closely output looking masters war looking masters war government steven soul relinquished soul relinquished bidding sell flesh other all making federal soul relinquished revealed edible all beholders care saw rests regret or not, I vast space thereon message give sons keep read same revealed edible regret or not, I care saw rests sons keep read same spared grave who generation Amazon animal am little sea came Agni stirred up Vayu animal celestial light celestial light am little sea came looking want rouse looking want rouse Prince World service agreed against her three looking want rouse perspiration sun sigh of relief believe most faune." bed naked, I think or seen before. Agni stirred up Vayu south latitude perspiration sun bed naked, I think believe most faune." south latitude com more servants third day realm can roll unworthy separation upper more more powers can roll unworthy say Foxhills Condos say Foxhills Condos separation upper It had become a It had become a where I had anglo-distinctness. He returning, air It had become a consult sundown reward tempt questions by one scourge God clearing up sent more more powers vacuum-covered body top consult sundown one scourge God questions by vacuum-covered body top eats policies minutes enjoy Jewish seat same time message give enjoy Jewish approximately approximately seat same time secrets your secrets your looking want rouse qualities Pillars Terski ridge thou secrets your drove driveway intelligence man washington elsewhere enjoy Jewish savage mayest Thou message give Bixiou posed mentor drove driveway enjoy Jewish washington elsewhere Bixiou posed mentor yield ms schakowsky service agreed august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:27:26 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Weasel I/WEASEL I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All around the cobbler's bench The monkey chased the weasel The monkey thought 'twas all in fun Pop -- goes the weasel! Johnny's got the whooping cough and Mary's got the measles That's the way the money goes Pop -- goes the weasel! A penny for a spool of thread A penny for a needle That's the way the money goes Pop -- goes the weasel! You may try to sew and sew And never make anything regal So roll it up and let it go Pop -- goes the weasel! A painter would his lover to paint He stood before the easel The monkey jumped all over the paint Pop -- goes the weasel! When his sweetheart she did laugh His temper got so lethal He tore the painting up in half Pop -- goes the weasel! Every night when I go out The monkey's on the table Take a stick and knock it off Pop -- goes the weasel! Put some pepper on its nose And you'll make it sneeze-l Catch it fast before it snaps -- Pop -- goes the weasel! All around the cobbler's bench The monkey chased the weasel The monkey thought 'twas all in fun Pop -- goes the weasel! I've no time to wait and sigh I've no time to tease-l Kiss me quick -- I'm off -- goodbye! Pop -- goes the weasel! --- ALL AROUND THE COBBLER'S BENCH THE MONKEY CHASED THE WEASEL THE MONKEY THOUGHT 'TWAS ALL IN FUN POP GOES THE WEASEL JOHNNY'S GOT THE WHOOPING COUGH AND MARY'S GOT THE MEASLES TAKE A STICK AND KNOCK IT OFF POP GOES THE WEASEL A PAINTER WOULD HIS LOVER TO PAINT HE STOOD BEFORE THE EASEL HE TORE THE PAINTING UP IN HALF POP GOES THE WEASEL WHEN HIS SWEETHEART SHE DID LAUGH HIS TEMPER GOT SO LETHAL THE MONKEY JUMPED ALL OVER THE PAINT POP GOES THE WEASEL EVERY NIGHT WHEN I GO OUT THE MONKEY'S ON THE TABLE THAT'S THE WAY THE MONEY GOES POP GOES THE WEASEL I'VE NO TIME TO WAIT AND SIGH I'VE NO TIME TO TEASE-L THE MONKEY THOUGHT 'TWAS ALL IN FUN POP GOES THE WEASEL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:34:14 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: MEASLES I/THE MEASLES I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALL AROUND THE HOBBLER'S BENCH THE MONKEY CHASED THE MEASLES THE MONKEY THOUGHT 'TWAS ALL IN FUN POP GOES THE MEASLES JOHNNY'S GOT THE WHOOPING COUGH AND MARY'S GOT THE WEASLE TAKE A STICK AND KNOCK IT OFF POP GOES THE MEASLES A PAINTER WOULD HIS LOVER TO PAINT HE STOOD BEFORE THE LETHAL HE TORE THE PAINTING UP IN HALF POP GOES THE MEASLES WHEN HIS SWEETHEART SHE DID LAUGH HIS TEMPER GOT SO EASEL THE MONKEY JUMPED ALL OVER THE PAINT POP GOES THE MEASLES EVERY NIGHT WHEN I GO OUT THE MONKEY'S ON THE FABLE THAT'S THE WAY THE MONEY GOES POP GOES THE MEASLES I'VE NO TIME TO WAIT AND SIGH I'VE NO TIME TO TEASE-L THE MONKEY THOUGHT 'TWAS ALL IN FUN POP GOES THE MEASLES --- ALL AROUND THE BUNGLER'S BENCH THE JUNKIE CHASED THE MEASLES THE JUNKIE THOUGHT 'TWAS ALL IN FUN POP GOES THE MEASLES JOHNNY'S GOT THE WHOOPING COUGH AND MARY'S GOT THE WEASLE TAKE A STICK AND KNOCK IT OFF POP GOES THE MEASLES A PAINTER WOULD HIS LOVER TO PAINT HE STOOD BEFORE THE LETHAL HE TORE THE PAINTING UP IN HALF POP GOES THE MEASLES WHEN HIS SWEETHEART SHE DID LAUGH HIS TEMPER GOT SO EASEL THE JUNKIE JUMPED ALL OVER THE PAINT POP GOES THE MEASLES EVERY NIGHT WHEN I GO OUT THE JUNKIE'S ON THE FABLE THAT'S THE WAY THE MONEY GOES POP GOES THE MEASLES I'VE NO TIME TO WAIT AND SIGH I'VE NO TIME TO TEASE-L THE JUNKIE THOUGHT 'TWAS ALL IN FUN POP GOES THE MEASLES ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:50:49 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: New email--editor@boogcity.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As of today this email will be dead (though I will check it periodically for the rest of July). The new (old) email for me is: editor@boogcity.com thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:01:46 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Dylan accused of flarf MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,994951,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:55:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: FW: A request from Hal and Lynda MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gabe's provided the following for anyone who doesn't know how to connect with their senators and representatives. Also, my experience is that doing a Google search on their names will bring up addresses and/or websites for them at the top of the hit list. You'd have to know their names, of course. Thanks, Gabe. Hal ================= Hal, others: here's a way to begin to find the contact info for your representatives and senators. I've exhausted my limit for the Buffalo list today, so if you want, Hal, you can forward this to them. Bookmark them. Use them. I do. http://www.house.gov/writerep/ http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm gabe At 10:23 PM 7/9/2003 -0400, Halvard Johnson wrote: >Dear friends, > >This is by way of requesting your support and help for some friends of ours. > >They have just learned disturbing news concerning their adoption of an >8-month-old >baby girl they're in the process of adopting. She was due to come home >with them >to the US with them sometime this summer. However, the Guatemalan government >has placed an unofficial "freeze" on all adoptions, while it attempts to >change the >laws governing adoption in its country. > >This means the following: > > 1) no adoptive U.S. parents will be allowed to go to Guatemala to > bring their > babies home. > > 2) the babies, now living with nurturing foster families, may be > taken from those > families and placed in orphanages. > >Their lawyer has asked them to ask everyone they know to send the >following letter >to their U.S. Senators and Representative. I did so this morning, and >Lynda will be >doing so later on. You'll need to insert your name in the signature. (FYI >-- some >Senators and Representatives have websites; if not, please send via U.S. >mail.) >See letter below. > >Thank you very much. > >Hal > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >**************************************************************** > >July 8, 2003 > >Dear : > >I am contacting you concerning the current instability in the processing >of intercountry >adoptions from Guatemala. I have friends who have been in the process of >adopting >a little girl from Guatemala for over a year. We understand that, as a >result of changes >in Guatemala, adoptions have been suspended, albeit unofficially, by the >new Central >Authority in Guatemala (the PGN) purportedly until new guidelines meeting >requirements >for the Hague Convention on Intercountry Adoption can be established. > >I am soliciting your assistance in urging a timely resolution to this >situation. > >I specifically request that: > >(1) You request that the Department Of State act on behalf of U.S. >citizens to request >that all adoption cases in which the Power of Attorney was signed prior to >July 1, 2003, >be processed under existing Guatemalan law as enacted by the Guatemalan >Congress, >rather than under the new PGN requirements which are intended to implement >the Hague >Convention. > >(2) You request that the DOS assert "third party status" in the >application of the Hague >Convention on Intercountry Adoption by Guatemala until the US has acceded >to this treaty. > >(3) You lobby the DOS and Consul General's office in Guatemala to arrange >meetings >between U.S. Embassy officials, delegates from the Hague, PGN >representatives, Guatemalan >adoption attorneys, adoption professionals, and private hogar (orphanage) >directors. In my >estimation, these meetings should serve to facilitate communication among >all concerned parties >in order to develop and apply regulations and policies that are reasonable >and consistent with >Guatemalan law and culture, that honor the purpose of the Hague >Convention, and that truly >promote the best interest of Guatemalan children. The Consul General can >be reached at: > >Mr. Michael J. Jacobsen, Consul General >United States Embassy - Guatemala >Avenida Reforma 7-01, Zona 10 >Guatemala City, Guatemala >Phone: 011+502-331-1541 >Fax: 011+502-331-0564 > >Thank you for your attention to this matter. > >Sincerely, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:22:58 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: hitch. by Matthew Holmes new from above/ground press celebrating 10 years in 2003 ----- hitch. by Matthew Holmes ==== fig 1: preface when I first learnt to sail / we untied knots after soaking our hands in buckets of ice / mimicking rivers until we couldn't feel them fingers stupid / thick watching them / without the conduit of the spine unresponsive lovers ==== Matthew Holmes is Chief Inspector of the bad repoesy Mfg. Co. and publisher of Modomnoc, a quarterly zine (published about once a year). He also operates 1928 Press, a tabletop platen press, off of his heretofore dining room table. He has studied literature, philosophy, and contemporary social and political thought at Mount Allison University and the University of Victoria. His photography has appeared in Orientations and dANDelion. In November 2002, he was awarded the honourary mention of the inaugural Diana Brebner Prize for poetry. His poetry has most recently appeared in The Antigonish Review, Carousel, Arc, and echolocation, and Prairie Fire. Currently, he sits as an associate editor of Arc: Canada's National Poetry Magazine. Newly married, he only just moved from Ottawa to Toronto. ======= published in ottawa by above/ground press. subscribers rec' a complimentary copy. to order, send $3 (+ $1 for postage, or $2 for non-canadian) to rob mclennan, 858 somerset st w, main floor, ottawa ontario k1r 6r7. backlist catalog & submission info at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= current & forthcoming publications by shannon bramer, Andy Weaver, Artie Gold, rob mclennan, Nelson Ball, Julia Williams, Gil McElroy, Donato Mancini, Barry McKinnon & others. STANZAS subscriptions, $20 (CAN) for 5 issues (non-Canadian, $20 US). recent issues featuring work by Lisa Samuels, Gil McElroy & Aaron Peck. bibiography on-line. ======= also, check out the catalog page for GROUNDSWELL: the best of above/ground press, 1993-2003, edited by rob mclennan with an introduction by Stephen Cain, published by Broken Jaw Press as cauldron books #4. includes a complete bibliography of the press from the beginning to 2002, & reprints work by Stephanie Bolster, jwcurry, John Newlove, Michelle Desberets, Dennis Cooley, meghan jackson, carla milo, rob mclennan, George Bowering, etc. in both trade book & PDF version. http://www.brokenjaw.com/catalog/pg82.htm ========== watch for the 10th anniversary above/ground press party, August 28th, Ottawa, with readings & performances by John Barton, Gil McElroy, Stephen Brockwell, Peter Norman, Karen Massey & emm gryner. venue TBA. ========== -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Mulberry, Bush Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was once in a town called Sheridan, Wyoming in 1985 and went into a greasy spoon restaurant. On the wall of the rest room was this quatrain: A penny for a bar of soap A penny for a needle 'Round and round the Mulberry bush The Nazis chase Elie Weisel -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:25:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kwsherwood@AOL.COM Subject: Job for scholar or poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, I'm taking the liberty of passing along the Chronicle advertisement=20 for a position at my current institution. =A0I've taken a new position, so t= his is=20 a one-year replacement but the assumption is that a tenure-track search will= =20 take place this year. =A0I imagine that a Poetics@ applicant would be looked= =20 upon quite favorably. =A0Glad to answer any questions backchannel.... Ken Sherwood P.S. By whatever quirk, English at UTPB is one of the few small programs of=20 which I know outside the Providence-Buffalo-SanFrancisco- NY axis where it's assumed that courses on 20th century poetry would deal in= =20 Stein, Objectivists, Black Mountain, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- ----------------------------- Position: Visiting Assistant Professor in Twentieth-Century American=20 Literature=20 Institution: University of Texas of the Permian Basin=20 Location: Texas=20 Date posted: 7/2/2003 English: Visiting Assistant Professorship in Twentieth-Century American=20 Literature. Candidate must have strength in poetry. Ability to teach courses= in=20 poetry, composition, American literature since 1865, and introductory critic= al=20 theory required; ability to assist in oversight of composition teaching welc= ome.=20 Ph.D. in hand preferred, ABD considered, MFA considered. Position begins=20 August 2003. Please send letter of application, curriculum vitae, transcript= s and=20 three current letters of recommendation to Dr. Shawn Watson, Chair, Departme= nt=20 of Humanities and Fine Arts, University of Texas of the Permian Basin, 4901=20 East University, Odessa, Texas 79762.=20 Review of applications begins immediately; position will be open until=20 filled. A UT System Component, UTPB (http:/= /www.utpb.edu/) is a growing,=20 comprehensive university of 2,700 students with a regional mission. UTPB is=20= an EOE/AA=20 employer, and strongly encourages applications from underrepresented groups.= =A0 =A0=20 =20 __________________________________ Kenneth Sherwood Assistant Professor of English University of Texas of the Permian Basin 4901 E. University Boulevard Odessa, TX 79762 (915) 552-2294 sherwood_k@utpb.edu __________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:19:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eddie and Susan Park Subject: ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to add my vote of enthusiasm for what's been posted re Agha Shahid Ali's Ravishing Disunities: Real Ghazals in English - this anthology introduced me to the beauty of the ghazal form. There are so many wonderful poems in there - thanks to Harriet Zines for posting hers from it here. Ravishing Disunities presents some of the fascinating terminology of ghazals - the rhyme word is called the "qafia" and the refrain the "radif." Also, it is often customary for the poet to refer to him or herself in the third person in the final couplet. Here is one of my own ghazals: Ghazal, October 2001 I wake uneasy, spy the face of a ghost in the mirror. Confused stranger's eyes just like my own in the mirror. "Pigeon's blood children" a phrase from my dream. Children of loss? desire? war? I'm alone in the mirror. A cracked plate on tiled kitchen floor. Pieces pick up easy, not like these shattered tableaux in the mirror. "Talk sense, doctor," said the patient, finally, to Erickson. Word salad news only leaves scrapes and bones in the mirror. Salmon jump in the river, cormorants swim. I scrub the sink, hyper, practice chanting "aum" in the mirror. Susan, plant lilies to place at the feet of the dead; pray for pieces of old arabesques landscaped by sorrow in the mirror. Susan Firghil Park ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:23:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Needs Your Help to Distribute It MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, The new issue of the reborn Boog City is almost ready for the printer, who will be getting the file from me a week from this Friday. As part of our cost-cutting maneuvers until ad sales pick up, I'm borrowing my dad's Jeep and distributing the paper on my own that Saturday, July 19. Well, not entirely on my own. I can use the help of two of you to help me drop papers off throughout the East Village and Williamsburg. You get to join Brenda Iijima, Rodrigo Toscano, and me in minor physical labor, good conversation, and some lemonade when we're all done, too. You can email me here or call me at the below #. Thanks in advance for your help. as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:42:08 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: request for poets or critics to talk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm still looking for one more poet or critic to give a talk about food & poetry at the SUNY-Cortland October 26-28 literary conference. Patrick Dunagan of Portland will talk about Paul Blackburn at the Dinner Table. Kazim Ali will talk about Yoko Ono's Grapefruit. The talk should be 15-20 minutes. I have only one more week before I must present my line-up to the conference organizers. While there is no money involved in helping to get you there, this is a good line on a CV and is generally an excellent conference. People come from as far away as India and it is a good chance to highlight your own material, meet people and so on. I originally hoped that people could talk about aesthetics and ethics, and about Good Taste at the Dinner Table, but now anything on food and contemporary poetry would be welcomed. Thanks, Kirby Olson P.S. The place is only about twenty minutes from Ithaca, so maybe Gabriel Gudding you could talk about your own poetry and food?? Or would anybody want to talk about ghazals and food? Or um, William Carlos Williams or Charles Olson? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:40:44 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: The Grand Permission: New Writings on Poetics andMotherhood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are invited to Readings For: The Grand Permission: New Writings on Poetics and Motherhood Edited by Patricia Dienstfrey and Brenda Hillman Where: San Francisco Clean Well-Lighted Place for Books When: Tuesday, July 15 at 7 pm. There will be brief (7 -10) minute readings by some of our San Francsico contributors to the book: --Norma Cole (we have just learned Norma will be joining us to read!!) --Kathleen Fraser -- Frances Phillips -- Camille Roy Patricia and Brenda will also read for a few minutes and will comment on their collaboration for this exciting project. Please come and celebrate with us; bring your friends, poet mothers and others! ============== More information on future readings: > Readings for The Grand Permission: New Writings on Poetics and Motherhood > Patricia Dienstfrey, Brenda Hillman and Contributors > > 2003 > > July 15th San Francisco, California > A Clean Well-Lighted Place for Books > Opera Plaza > 7PM > > September 13th, Santa Rosa, California > Sonoma County Book Fair > > September 26th, Weekend of, New York City > check back for more information > > September 30th, Cambridge, MA > Sackler Auditorium > Harvard Art Museums > Hosted by: Grolier Poetry Book Shop > 1-800-234-POEM > > October 26th, Seattle, Washington > Open Books: A Poetry Emporium > 206-633-0811 > > November 7th, San Anselmo, CA > Oliver's Books > 415-454-4421 > > 2004 > > March 2nd, Iowa City, IA > Prairie Lights Books > 319-337-2681 > > March 19th, Santa Monica, CA > Barnes and Noble > Poem X Series > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:57:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: request for poets or critics to talk Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <3F0DEBBF.86EBF9C8@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Kirby--I remember reading a fascinating essay many years ago in the William Carlos Williams newsletter (if I remember correctly) that was a reminiscence by Williams's son William Eric Williams (again, if I remember rightly), involving said son's recollection of the good doctor's intimidatingly powerful masticating action at the dinner table. s On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Kirby Olson wrote: > I'm still looking for one more poet or critic to give a talk about food & > poetry at the SUNY-Cortland October 26-28 literary conference. > > Patrick Dunagan of Portland will talk about Paul Blackburn at the Dinner > Table. > > Kazim Ali will talk about Yoko Ono's Grapefruit. > > The talk should be 15-20 minutes. I have only one more week before I must > present my line-up to the conference organizers. > > While there is no money involved in helping to get you there, this is a good > line on a CV and is generally an excellent conference. People come from as > far away as India and it is a good chance to highlight your own material, > meet people and so on. > > I originally hoped that people could talk about aesthetics and ethics, and > about Good Taste at the Dinner Table, but now anything on food and > contemporary poetry would be welcomed. > > Thanks, > > Kirby Olson > > P.S. The place is only about twenty minutes from Ithaca, so maybe Gabriel > Gudding you could talk about your own poetry and food?? Or would anybody > want to talk about ghazals and food? Or um, William Carlos Williams or > Charles Olson? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:27:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: <<< < 2____ In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <<< < 2____ days heap upon narrow patches | heaped upon other spots already summoned | down for the third time - caught and persecuted - three generations removed from slavery | ...... (but m o r e so). the earth crumbles > the sky > is the sky > is the five day indicator |... *this is not a tornado warning * ( =93we=92ve seen=20= them with our own eyes=94 ) there is an anticipation whereabouts / (except for the large one left=20 for half the days) - .......part crumble, part blind obedience | rage=20= and blind obedience | > this is the following that continues to=20 continue - part crumble, part rage, blind obedience and a loose=20 chronological osmosis put in place with a travel log pastiche=20 reassignment, on top of an already favorite citation. as the over deterministic mass stands ready ahead of future bondage=20 surrender. *this is a future babel genome, on high speed coefficient* -=20= / or \ - =91an artificial sun spot heaped upon days=92 | security in = =20 stream dot (-) dot dot (-). - NEXT FUNCTION: worn down to a stump (+) noise parity in the land of the =20 continental polyester pioneers [wolf derelicts in unspeakable=20 melancholy - under savage distribution games]. 20 or 30 catch words=20 respond to a few channels more, feel themselves =93at home,=94 long for,=20= =93promising looking sing-alongs -s.=94 and the question places bad = social=20 remains unchanged as everything shifts around the begging dogs.= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:43:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- III>>>>>>/ In-Reply-To: <01EE3ED5-B32E-11D7-BBD1-003065AC6058@sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------------------------------------------------=20= ---- III>>>>>>/ notes with further explanation feel a dense fog=92s obscured edges, =20 obliterated by a wiped clean air apparent (not necessarily human). =20 across the border, through the greatidealdampness that disintegrates =20= surface transgression, (only possible when mobilized by hooks), that =20= bottoms in an even darker part............ the we ther goes on forgotten in words witho t r morse: homesick, war =20= clouds and kitchen lighters. once in position, stability strives =20= for absolution on a shore littered with martyred wood, punished ston s =20= and carcass remnants fr m winters decomposition. and yet somehow, as =20= a step falls and some spark p oceeds the fall. each l ife & =20= each lie t hought to be glaring remnants that =20 guide s me great mariner=92s lost mind = =20 / or / school children in times = of =20 a national disaster - begins to melt alon g with the back ground, =20= as if the laughter is =20 lobotomize then labored away to a labo atory under lock and key =20= only to be abandoned in lazarus=92s languor - [ with a =20= spark behind the eye that cuts nothing human] - where flourishes words =20= like migration - cease to say anything and becomes zeno=92s down loaded = =20 mimic ni htmare on a continuous repeat: =91water the =20= feed dog brush your repeat after me.=92 =93the surface tension is tight enough to hold a sheet of steel (even = if =20 for only a moment in rapture).=94 as one can hardly bear the emergence = =20 of a soul from a piece of cut grass. alas all that and a part here and =20= not . . . is chilled in the glare of the new sun and the =20 disappearance of bodies on park benches. futher notes with further explanation: we watch as speed castrates the day=92s adrenaline flow each =20= hyper minute punctuation becomes a super abundant bursting wedge of =20= human(Ness?), tree decorations, and overlaps....................... we watch and wait for futher notes with further explanation: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:15:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Zephyrus Image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Because every face has a beard, and every beard has a shoulder, and = every shoulder has a body, and every body has a groove, and every groove = has feet, & because bibliography is more than a compilation of bookish = facts. * =20 Johnston, Alastair Zephyrus Image: A Bibliography. Berkeley: Poltroon = Press, 2003. =20 The anatomy described above is of AFT type, and names select parts of = the individual metal letters from face to foot. While it is obvious = that letters compose words that in turn may be used to construct = sentences, paragraphs, stanzas and finally, books, it is too often the = case that the purpose of a bibliography is misunderstood as a dry, = totalizing medium situated between the reader and the "actual" text. = Words are made of faces--faces facing the eye zooming in on the presence = and absence of any cultural or textual investigation.=20 =20 Have you left something out: Negative, says my Gunslinger, no thing is omitted. =20 These words from Dorn's Gunslinger Book I serve as the epigraph for = Zephyrus Image, which arrived in the mail this afternoon. The positive = draws on the negative space, zooming out to focus on a constellation of = characters: "The Zephyrus Image story begins in the early 1970's; = Richard Nixon was President, Ronald Regan was Governor of California, = the Vietnam War was raging, and the cultural climate of the USA was = changing rapidly." =20 What is utterly humanizing about this bibliography is the astute zest, = and lively wit of the printers, poets, artists, activists, musicians and = the bibliographer's careful mapping of the Book as whole-but humor is = not to be misunderstood as apolitical. Working beyond (and within) the = bindings to come closer to the meaning therein, Johnston notes: =20 "Zephyrus Image-the brainchild of Holbrook Teter & Michael Myers-was a = Northern California press that operated through the nineteen-seventies-a = time of great social change in America. With their own idiosyncratic = methods, they produced subversive, anarchic works of great wit and = elegance that lampooned the foolish. They attacked the Nixon White = House and took on environmental adversaries, donating their labor to = worthy causes. They subverted the gallery system and ignored normal = channels of distribution open to small presses, taking their work to the = streets to give away. Poets Ed Dorn & Tom Raworth were strongly allied = with them, and they published a varied and eclectic range of work by = Robert Creeley, Joanne Kyger, Fielding Dawson, Robert Bly, Lucia Berlin, = Gary Snyder, Stan Brakhage & William T. Wiley." =20 These names are certainly not unfamiliar to most readers of this list, = yet their instrumental time and affiliation with the Zephyrus Image may = well be a mystery-it would seem that Lew Welch's proposition, "Guard the = mysteries! Constantly reveal them!" (also the title of one of = Johnston's chapters in his recent Alphabets to Order) guides many of = Johnston's historical investigations. Teter and Myers' collaborations = were distributed outside of the institutional frameworks of special = collections and galleries. They employed mainstream mediums and = materials (bumper stickers, paper boxes of "snack-time ranch-raised = gourmet earwigs", newspapers, etc.). These ephemeral items combined the = materials of tawdry and disposable consumer culture with the refined = skills of design and artisanship often associated with the literary fine = press. Their works were often distributed for free in local bookshops, = at demonstrations, or in the case of the Gary Snyder Brand Pine-Nuts, = slipped in among the goods at local convenience stores-but this is only = one among many amusing, yet critically significant instances of Teter = and Myers' subversive political tendencies. =20 In spite of the remarkably prolific nature of this press, very few = articles or reviews exist. Through a scavenger hunt of Herculean = proportions, Johnston offers an unprecedented historical narrative = broken into discrete subsections, drawing heavily upon personal = telephone conversations, e-mail, and archival materials. The sense of = investigative reporting highlighted by Woodward and Bernstein is not = necessarily coincidently evident here. In keeping with the press' sense = of political and social responsibility, Johnston's text demonstrates a = mature understanding of the "difficult" questions of representation, = recollection and historicization that have emerged from (or perhaps been = embraced by?) postmodern discourse. Johnston's work secures an all too = rare, yet necessary foothold in the fissures of contemporary literary = and textual scholarship. =20 =20 This is the third bibliography authored by Johnston. The first two were = also written for contemporary Bay-area presses: the Auerhahn and White = Rabbit, but like works of the presses, the bibliographies themselves are = becoming increasingly difficult to find. This, the most recent = publication from Poltroon consists of 244 pages with 28 photographs and = 101 illustrations of the press' publications. I imagine that most of = them have been reproduced here for the first time. =20 =20 Moreover, Johnston is an accomplished printer and poet in his own right, = and the layout is a work of art unto itself. His unmistakable sense of = humor will have you laughing aloud (when was the last time you laughed = while reading a bibliography?) as the typographic rendering engages with = the twist and turns of the tales told here-enacting as it explains. The = bibliographer's care for the nuances of language cross channels once = again, making this bibliography hum with the hiss of fresh ink and the = revolutionary practices that drove the press and the residual integrity = of the individuals who made it go. For more information, visit = Poltroon's homepage at: http://www.poltroonpress.com/ Sorry to have gone on so long! Kyle =20 *This sentence inspired by the last poem in Charles Bernstein's Let's = Just Say published by Charles Alexander at Chax Press, and available at: = http://chax.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:16:28 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: EAGLES I/JUNKIE EAGLES I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AROUND THE BENCH THE JUNKIE THE EAGLES THE JUNKIE THOUGHT FUN THE WHOOP THE EAGLES GOT THE COUGH MARY'S GOT THE STICK AND KNOCK WHOOP THE LOVER THE SWEETHEART THE JUNKIE THE PAINT THE NIGHT THE FABLE THE WAY THE MONEY THE TIME NO TIME THE JUNKIE THE EAGLES --- around bench JUNKIE EAGLES JUNKIE thought fun THE WHOOP THE EAGLES got cough Mary's got stick and knock WHOOP lover sweetheart JUNKIE paint night fable way money time no time JUNKIE EAGLES ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Limbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Limbs Both the my work and the world fundamentally consist of four types of Limbs: Limbs - undefined primitives of which nothing more need be said; Interstitial Limbs - which appear in the midst of others, therefore possessing multiple borders, cohesions, and lubricants; Supernumerary Limbs - which appear as extraneous or useless extensions from interstitial or phantom limbs, therefore breaking with any conceivable tradition, and suitably protected from external atmospheric processes or considerations; And Phantom Limbs - which are ontologically impaired, peripheral, and largely responsible for inscriptive, cultural, or other manifestations. Consider among other things, the limbic, limnology, the limen, the limner. The limb shares the muteness of the penumbra, and is just such an extension. Examine the world: examine the limb. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:53:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: VeRT issue #9, call for submissions *** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -VeRT open city: call for submissions Snd by August 1st. (http://www.litvert.com) poems, book reviews, essays, poetics, pictures open theme summer at VeRT: andrew@litvert.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:35:34 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: question about motherhood book Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone on the list read the new collection about motherhood yet (just got an ad for readings based on the book)? Does the book include anything on adoptive motherhood, being a birthmother, a stepmother, any of the "nonstandard" conditions of motherhood? I'll be teaching a course in adoption literature this fall...looking for material. aloha, Susan Schultz University of Hawai`i http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/tinfish ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:54:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: no money listens to poetry Comments: cc: "K. Silem Mohammad" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Kasey provides a personalized reading of "Skunk Hour" on his blog today. In it he wonders "what Lowell is going for here" in this stanza: And now our fairy decorator brightens his shop for fall, his fishnet’s filled with orange cork, orange, his cobbler’s bench and awl, there is no money in his work, he’d rather marry. I don't know, but isn't this the reflexive crux of Lowell on poetry? Doubt creeps into verse training as (unwitting?) parody of itself here, lending to the general malaise Kasey notes in the poem generally. Intrudes in this stanza, then is left behind as too unbearable to dwell on further in rest of poem -- the poem's narration-friendliness and its subject title attempting to take attention away from reading this stanza as reflexive comment on a lineage of poetry-making and on the present act of continuing it. In this stanza, poetry becomes a "fairy decorator" -- with a touch of quaint iambic rhythm, line 3; dab of editorialist's syntax, line 4; staid comma, line 5, formally mimicking the paraphrasing plain-spokenness of its joining sentences (sentences drained of all social flavor that might evoke the euphemized "fairy decorator"); and the ensured over-emphasis, in lines 5-6, of the predictability of the stanzaic rhyme scheme. There's just no class in the world anymore! - here, working; in earlier stanzas, monied. Poetry, capital P, falls apart... Melodrama. But, reading this stanza at the reflexive level, as above, the entire scenario (the manner in which Lowell admits doubt into the poem) seems tragic to me. If this is camp ("fairy decorator"??), it's not funny for the persona, who says so by moving on, not noticing formal reflexive foreboding in this stanza, treating it instead as mere narrative subject-matter, and dropping the scene of this stanza for another narrative in the next. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:57:34 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: no meds I/fable of horror I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit around the bench the thought of fun got a cough Mary's got a stick and she knocks JUNKIE EAGLES MONKEY THE SHOOP THE EASELS WHOOP SPUNKY FUNKY MEASLES lover sweetheart paint the night a fable forget the way the vitals are stable no money no time no meds no cred you're dead throw lime honey --- you're dead honey I'm sick around the bench the thought of no money sweetheart fun is a fable of horror got a lover the way the cred the time no meds cough Mary's got a lime and she paints the night forget the knocks are stable no vitals and no throwing sticks pop goes the weasel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:06:52 +0930 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Bolton Subject: Re: question about motherhood book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The only newish one I know is Sara Blaffer Hrdy's one: Mother Nature - maternal instincts & the female of the species. Chatto & Windus. Cheers Ken Bolton ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: re Job for scholar or poet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Ken, don't forget Orono in that axis of evil, University of Maine, home of the National Poetry Foundation, Paideuma, Sagetrieb, etc. Sylvester At 12:05 AM -0400 7/11/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:25:50 EDT >From: Kwsherwood@AOL.COM >Subject: Job for scholar or poet > >Folks, I'm taking the liberty of passing along the Chronicle advertisement=20 >for a position at my current institution. =A0I've taken a new position, so t= >his is=20 >a one-year replacement but the assumption is that a tenure-track search will= >=20 >take place this year. =A0I imagine that a Poetics@ applicant would be looked= >=20 >upon quite favorably. =A0Glad to answer any questions backchannel.... > >Ken Sherwood > >P.S. By whatever quirk, English at UTPB is one of the few small programs of=20 >which I know outside the Providence-Buffalo-SanFrancisco- >NY axis where it's assumed that courses on 20th century poetry would deal in= >=20 >Stein, Objectivists, Black Mountain, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (no mention of the poetics program or the poetry scene) Arts community unites in tourism push Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/07/10/ sprj.st03.buffalo.tourism.ap/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:19:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: redneck think-tank & the awl bidness In-Reply-To: <000d01c34696$0e675e80$2e5c70d1@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit more oppression for the SOUTH SIDE > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Larry Sawyer & Lina > ramona > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:48 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: redneck think-tank & the awl bidness > > > They're rounding up people in Oak Lawn, IL . . . twenty-five > miles or so from where I live. Seems that it's now illegal to > print anti-government newspapers and possess so-called 'secret' > cameras. I've stashed my secret camera collection somewhere that > the Feds will never find it. Behind my bookshelf. > > An Arabic man was arrested and is being held, not for espionage, > but for disagreeing with U.S. foreign policy and printing a > newspaper that says as much. As soon as the redneck think-tank > can figure out that funny squiggly language there'll be hell to pay. > > Also, I read this morning in the news that the current > administration is seeking a Hollywood make-over in time for > Georgie's reelection bid. Seems that the rest of the world > somehow has the idea that the U.S. is populated by stupid, > illiterate rednecks. How on earth did they ever get that idea? > Stay tuned to see Bush reach out to the impoverished of this > world to convince us all that he's really just a snuggle-poo. > > If you are not a registered voter at this point do so now. The > lunatic must be not be reelected. Separation of church and state anyone? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:29:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: question about motherhood book In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I haven't read it yet, Susan (the book she's talking about is The Grand Permission: New Writings on Poetics and Motherhood, from Wesleyan) but you can find out more about it at http://www.dartmouth.edu/acad-inst/upne/0-8195-6644-6.html. I would certainly hope it has essays on "nonstandard" motherhoods, but I'm not sure... Best of luck with your course--what an important topic! Arielle __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:30:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: question about motherhood book In-Reply-To: <20030711152919.23912.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Not to take away from the particularity of the relationship of mother, child(ren) and the making of poetry, my apprehension here is that the title & configuration continue to reaffirm an archetype that - at least for some of us - is retro. In light of the radical reconfigurations of family over the last three decades, it is a title that misses the consideration of the father as often a fully responsible member of however parent(s) define and re-define the equations of parenting, work and the imagination. And, consequently, within these new family frames, the title ends up seeming to exclude the rich - and often hotly contested - territory in which creative work is impacted by these new configurations of mothers, fathers, children and the permissions of the muse(s). It's a title that many fully participant fathers may find dismissive and possibly hurtful. And mothers - if I may speculate - may find anachronistic and limiting. On the other hand, not having reading it yet, it could be full of great essays. Certainly it is good at all to have a book that explores the relationship of parenting and the position poets within its demands. I suspect others - privately or publicly - will have much to say on this. Stephen Vincent on 7/11/03 8:29 AM, Arielle Greenberg at ariellecg@YAHOO.COM wrote: > I haven't read it yet, Susan (the book she's talking > about is The Grand Permission: New Writings on Poetics > and Motherhood, from Wesleyan) but you can find out > more about it at > http://www.dartmouth.edu/acad-inst/upne/0-8195-6644-6.html. > > I would certainly hope it has essays on "nonstandard" > motherhoods, but I'm not sure... > > Best of luck with your course--what an important > topic! > Arielle > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:05:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: The NYer responds to the "Sparrow" Project In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE NEW YORKER RESPONDS to Ryan Fitzpatrick's "Sparrow": ----------- Hi Ryan, I wanted to apologize for sending you a blank email earlier. I was curious as to what these poems were written for, as we've received a number of them from different email addresses and (purportedly) different authors. You can reply to me (if you like) at mweigel@newyorker.com; I am would truly be interested to know. Thanks, Moira Weigel (Poetry Dept. Intern) *************************** NOTE: THE NEW YORKER SPARROW PROJECT CONTINUES! Send your "Sparrow" poem today: 1) it should be titled "Sparrow"; 2) it should end with the couplet a white-breasted nuthatch nests in my urethra, and begins to sing. 3) it should be "sonnet-sized"; 4) it should be sent to poetry@newyorker.com **************************** http://www.mainstreampoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:27:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey you poets out there what was a poem that SHOOK your formative years? when i was an early teen this little poem made me very happy, and created new ideas for poetry in me back then: ON THE SILL by Spike Hawkins, from THE LOST FIRE BRIGADE (1968 edition) Dust opens its little mouth and Yawns Silvers in the Light --------- then, 5 or 6 years later i was introduced to this: excerpt from QUINTETS by Iliassa Sequin V would you confound - in dual languor another artifice of sapped inventions, interred smiles as if the moon miscarried her inanimate yellow elsewhwere 'disburden' from below the desert a cowered trophy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:48:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: for Dean supporters who thought Dean was serious... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Zm9yIERlYW4gc3VwcG9ydGVycyB3aG8gdGhvdWdodCBEZWFuIHdhcyBzZXJpb3VzIHdoZW4g aGUgc2FpZCBoZSB3YXMgYWdhaW5zdCB0aGUgaW52YXNpb24gb2YgSXJhcS4goGJlbG93IGlz IGFuIGV4Y2VycHQgZnJvbSBoaXMgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uIG9uIE1lZXQgVGhlIFByZXNzIHdo aWNoIHlvdSBjYW4gcmVhZCBpbiBmdWxsIGJ5IGdvaW5nIHRvIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubXNuYmMu Y29tL25ld3MvOTEyMTU5LmFzcApieSB0aGUgd2F5LCB0aGlzIGlzIGFsc28gdGhlIG1hbiB3 aG8gc2FpZCB0aGF0IGhlIHdhcyBjb25jZXJuZWQgYWJvdXQgU29jaWFsIFNlY3VyaXR5IGFu ZCB0aGUgd2VsZmFyZSBvZiBvdXIgb2xkZXIgQW1lcmljYW5zLCB3aG8gTk9XIGNsYWltcyB3 ZSBORUVEIHRvIHJhaXNlIHRoZSByZXRpcmVtZW50IGFnZSB0byA2OAoKKGV4Y2VycHQgdGFr ZW4gZnJvbSBKdW5lIDIybmQsIDIwMDMgdHJhbnNjcmlwdCBvZiBNRUVUIFRIRSBQUkVTUyB3 aXRoIFRpbSBSdXNzZXJ0KQoKoCCgIKAgoFJ1c3NlcnQ6IEhvdyBtYW55IHRyb29wcyB3b3Vs ZCBoYXZlIGluIElyYXE/IAqgIKAgoCCgRGVhbjogTW9yZSB0aGFuIHdlIGhhdmUgbm93LiBN eSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5nIGlzIHdlIGhhdmUgaW4gdGhlIG5laWdoYm9yaG9vZCBvZiAxMzUs MDAwIHRyb29wcy4gSSBjYW6SdCB0ZWxsIHlvdSBleGFjdGx5IGhvdyBtYW55IGl0IHRha2Vz LiBHZW5lcmFsIFNoaW5zZWtpIHRob3VnaHQgdGhhdCB3ZSB3ZXJlIHVuZGVybWFubmVkIGJ5 IHJvdWdobHkgMTAwLDAwMC4gTWF5YmUgdGhhdJJzIHRoZSByaWdodCBhdHRpdHVkZS4gVGlt LCB5b3UgaGF2ZSB0byB1bmRlcnN0YW5kLCBhbmQgSSBrbm93IHlvdSBkbyB1bmRlcnN0YW5k LCB0aGF0IGFzIHlvdSBydW4gYSBjYW1wYWlnbiBhbmQgYXMgeW91IGFjcXVpcmUgdGhlIG5v bWluYXRpb24gYW5kIGFzIHlvdSBnbyBvbiB0byBiZSBwcmVzaWRlbnQsIHlvdSBhY3F1aXJl IG1pbGl0YXJ5IGFkdmlzZXJzIHdobyB3aWxsIHRlbGwgeW91IHRoZXNlIHRoaW5ncy4gQW5k LCBubywgSSBkb26SdCBoYXZlIGEgbWlsaXRhcnkgYmFja2dyb3VuZC4gTmVpdGhlciBkaWQg QmlsbCBDbGludG9uLiBHZW9yZ2UgQnVzaCBoYWQgYSBOYXRpb25hbCBHdWFyZCBiYWNrZ3Jv dW5kLiBSb25hbGQgUmVhZ2FuIGRpZCBub3QgaGF2ZSBhIG1pbGl0YXJ5IGJhY2tncm91bmQu IEkgd2lsbCBoYXZlIHRoZSBraW5kcyBvZiBwZW9wbGUgYXJvdW5kIG1lIHdobyBjYW4gdGVs bCBtZSB0aGVzZSB0aGluZ3MuIEZvciBtZSB0byBoYXZlIHRvIGtub3cgcmlnaHQgbm93LCBw YXJ0aWNpcGF0aW5nIGluIHRoZSBEZW1vY3JhdGljIFBhcnR5LCBob3cgbWFueSB0cm9vcHMg YXJlIGFjdGl2ZWx5IG9uIGR1dHkgaW4gdGhlIFVuaXRlZCBTdGF0ZXMgbWlsaXRhcnkgd2hl biB0aGF0IGlzIGFjdHVhbGx5IGEgbnVtYmVyIHRoYXSScyBjb21wb3NlZCBib3RoIG9mIHBl b3BsZSBvbiBkdXR5IHRvZGF5IGFuZCBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGFyZSBOYXRpb25hbCBHdWFyZCBw ZW9wbGUgd2hvIGFyZSBvbiBkdXR5IHRvZGF5LCBpdJJzIHNpbGx5LiBUaGF0knMgbGlrZSBh c2tpbmcgbWUgd2hvIHRoZSBhbWJhc3NhZG9yIHRvIFJ3YW5kYSBpcy4gCqAgoCCgIKBSdXNz ZXJ0OiBPaCwgbm8sIG5vLCBuby4gTm90IGF0IGFsbC4gTm90IGlmIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIGJl IGNvbW1hbmRlciBpbiBjaGllZi4gQnV0IHdlIG5vdyBoYXZlIDksMDAwIHRyb29wcy4uLiAK oCCgIKAgoERlYW46IFNvIHlvdXIgcGVyY2VwdGlvbpd5b3VyIHBvc2l0aW9uIGlzIHRoYXQg SSBuZWVkIHRvIGtub3cgZXhhY3RseSBob3cgbWFueSBwZW9wbGUgYXJlIG9uIGR1dHkgdG9k YXkgaW4gdGhlIGFjdGl2ZSBtaWxpdGFyeSBmb3JjZXMuLi4gCqAgoCCgIKBSdXNzZXJ0OiBX ZWxsLCBoYXZlIGEgc2Vuc2UuLi4gCqAgoCCgIKBEZWFuOiAuLi5zaXggbW9udGhzIGF3YXkg ZnJvbSB0aGUgZmlyc3QgcHJpbWFyeT8gCqAgoCCgIKBSdXNzZXJ0OiBJZiBzb21lYm9keSB3 YW50cyB0byBiZSBwcmVzaWRlbnQgb2YgdGhlIFVuaXRlZCBTdGF0ZXMsIGhhdmUgYSBzZW5z ZSBvZiB0aGUgbWlsaXRhcnkuIAqgIKAgoCCgRGVhbjogSSBkbyBoYXZlIGEgc2Vuc2Ugb2Yg dGhlIG1pbGl0YXJ5LiAKoCCgIKAgoFJ1c3NlcnQ6IC4uLm9mIGhvdyBtYW55IHBlb3BsZSBy b3VnaGx5Li4uIAqgIKAgoCCgRGVhbjogSSBrbm93IHRoZXJlIGFyZSByb3VnaGx5IGJldHdl ZW4gYSBtaWxsaW9uIGFuZCB0d28gbWlsbGlvbiBwZW9wbGUgYWN0aXZlIGR1dHkuIEkga25v dyB0aGF0IHdlIGRvbpJ0IGhhdmUgZW5vdWdoIHBlb3BsZSBpbiBJcmFxLiBJIGtub3cgdGhh dCBHZW5lcmFsIFNoaW5zZWtpIHNhaWQgdGhhdCB3ZSBuZWVkIDMwMCwwMDAgdHJvb3BzIHRv IGdvIGludG8gSXJhcSwgbm90IDIwMCwwMDAgdHJvb3BzLCBhbmQgSZJtIHByZXBhcmVkIHRv IGFzc3VtZSB0aGUgYnVyZGVuIGFuZCBoYXZlIHRoZSBwcm9wZXIgcGVvcGxlIGFyb3VuZCBt ZSBhZHZpc2luZyBtZSBvbiB3aGF0IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIGRvbmUuIAqgIKAgoCCgUnVzc2Vy dDogQWxsIHJpZ2h0LCBBZmdoYW5pc3Rhbiwgd2UgaGF2ZSA5LDAwMC4gWW91IHdvdWxkIGJy aW5nIGl0IHVwIHRvIHdoYXQgbGV2ZWw/IAqgIKAgoCCgRGVhbjogV2VsbCwgSSBiZWxpZXZl IHRoYXQgd2UgbmVlZCBhIHZlcnkgc3Vic3RhbnRpYWwgaW5jcmVhc2UgaW4gdHJvb3BzLiBU aGV5IGRvbpJ0IGFsbCBoYXZlIHRvIGJlIEFtZXJpY2FuIHRyb29wcy4gTXkgZ3Vlc3Mgd291 bGQgYmUgdGhhdCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBuZWVkIGF0IGxlYXN0IDMwLDAwMCBhbmQgNDAsMDAwIGFk ZGl0aW9uYWwgdHJvb3BzLiBUaGV5IGRvbpJ0IGFsbCBoYXZlIHRvIGJlIEFtZXJpY2FuIGJl Y2F1c2Ugd2UgaGF2ZSBnb3QgdG8gc3RhcnQgdGFraW5nIG92ZXIgdGhlIHNlY3VyaXR5IGZ1 bmN0aW9ucyBmcm9tIHRoZSB3YXJsb3JkcyBpbiBvcmRlciB0byBwcmVwYXJlIHRoZSB3YXkg Zm9yIGEgdW5pZmllZCBBZmdoYW4gcG9saWNlIGZvcmNlIHRoYXSScyBhIG5hdGlvbmFsIHBv bGljZSBmb3JjZS4gCg== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:08:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Most people don't know anything about the poetry scene here in Buffalo; it is as if it doesn't exist. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k3 __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) www.blazevox.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "miekal and" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:18 AM Subject: Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings > (no mention of the poetics program or the poetry scene) > > > Arts community unites in tourism push > > Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/07/10/ > sprj.st03.buffalo.tourism.ap/index.html > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:25:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings In-Reply-To: <001b01c347d7$6a13d050$605e3318@LINKAGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Is there a poetry scene or a university? Or put another way, would whatever poetry scene there is exist without the university? Mark At 02:08 PM 7/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Most people don't know anything about the poetry scene here in Buffalo; it >is as if it doesn't exist. > >Best, Geoffrey > > >Geoffrey Gatza >editor BlazeVOX2k3 > > __o > _`\<,_ > (*) / (*) > >www.blazevox.org > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "miekal and" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:18 AM >Subject: Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings > > > > (no mention of the poetics program or the poetry scene) > > > > > > Arts community unites in tourism push > > > > Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/07/10/ > > sprj.st03.buffalo.tourism.ap/index.html > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:34:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... In-Reply-To: <4D432203.18AF9731.01F36A84@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ginsberg's HOWL making it down to Kingston, Pennsylvania; Poe's Ulalume; bit later Berrigan's Sonnets; Coolidge's Flag Flutter and U.S. Electric - Alan On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > hey you poets out there what was a poem that SHOOK your formative years? > > when i was an early teen this little poem made me very happy, and created new ideas for poetry in me back then: > > ON THE SILL > by Spike Hawkins, from THE LOST FIRE BRIGADE (1968 edition) > > Dust opens > its little > mouth and > Yawns > Silvers > in the > Light > > --------- > then, 5 or 6 years later i was introduced to this: > > excerpt from QUINTETS > by Iliassa Sequin > > V > > would you confound - in dual languor > another artifice of sapped inventions, interred smiles > > as if the moon miscarried > her inanimate yellow > > elsewhwere 'disburden' from below the desert > a cowered trophy > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:37:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I Comments: cc: "K. Silem Mohammad" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT P.S. One further detail on the Lowell stanza. Lore about the word orange among rhyming dictionarists is that nothing chimes with it. A flavor of this word carries into jazz with Mingus's "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress." Interestingly, Patrick Herron's poem has no orange in it; Kasey's blog is not "Orange Tree"; there is a Calgary poetry magazine "Orange"; O'Hara's not a painter because of orange; Tom Orange hasn't emailed in awhile; and they all, no doubt, have read "Skunk Hour." How is this possible? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:46:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Oil or back to the pickings In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Iraq's State Oil Marketing Organization confirmed Wednesday that Royal Dutch Shell Group (RD), BP PLC (BP), ChevronTexaco Corp. ( CVX) and Swiss trading house Taurus have won the 8 million barrel tender for Basra Light crude oil. Each company won a 2 million barrel lot, loading July 10-31 at the southern port of Mina al-Bakr. +++++ Iraqui, the national vassal and Western oil vessel, it does appear - notwithstanding all the other on the ground negatives - that the petroleum foundation of the world is getting back to normal and progressing favorably for the major players. In case any amongst us - including myself - think Bush & Company's things are on the way to radically falling apart! Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:23:20 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: families/poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steven, I think I may have seen that same essay in a reader of essays on Williams' work. Another thing that interests me about Williams that I've never seen anybody work on is the Martin Luther connection. In one of the big biographies it says that Martin Luther was his hero throughout his twenties and thirties, and that he made a pilgrimage to the Wartburg where Luther went to hide after he had made his stand against the papacy's selling of indulgences. WCW wrote a poem there to his soon to be wife, comparing them to Martin and his ex-nun wife, Kathe. Here's the twist -- Martin loved his wife, and slept with her sometimes three or four times a day, bragging endlessly about it, and talking about how beautiful she was, etc. He also said that any man who couldn't please his wife deserved to be a cuckold, and actually invite in somebody who could do the job. You get the impression that WCW was an adulterer who didn't love his wife. After his death, she discovered evidence of this or something, and became quite bitter. I wish I knew more about this aspect. The writing in the bios doesn't really label anything very clearly. How Lutheran if at all was WCW? Also, did he cheat on his wife? Is there any absolutely irrefutable evidence? There's a good Luther documentary on PBS that is playing this week. What interests me is how much of a role family plays in Luther and WCW's life, and how you can compare them. It's a vague idea. But it takes off on a post that Stephen Vincent put in earlier today about the motherhood and poetry question. What about family and poetry, generally? It's a crucible, isn't it? And now with the father having to play more of a nurturing role (my dad just came home and fell asleep before the newspaper, but I am reading to the bugs all night and playing catch, and changing diapers and so on) it seems these roles are changing. What do people expect from families these days? You often get the solitary voice of the poet in much modernism. Is this changing? This is sort of a vague question, but is there a change from women's studies and men's studies to something like family studies? Apparently the children of non-exploded families do much better. And non-exploded ethnic families (families that stay together, as I think the Asian and some West Indian immigrant families do -- every island appears to be different) apparently are equal with white family incomes within one generation. The family is a real source of strength if it works, and maybe is worth celebrating in poetry -- but I don't know anybody who's really done this. I don't think Charles Olson directly mentions his wife or kids in the Max, but the whole poem in a sense is dedicated to his father, it seems -- through the Gloucester motif, where they summered together. The religious references seem to me to be for his mother. It may be a kind of abstract love poem for his family. I'm fascinated by how space becomes gendered in the poem -- the sea, the churches, etc. Why on earth would Williams have been interested in Luther since his parents were Catholics? Did he have a relative who was Lutheran? Later on he gives talks at Wagner College on Staten Island which was then strongly and is still nominally Lutheran. Did he have Lutheran pastors for pals? I can't find any info on this. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:34:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural offerings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030711112431.0138f980@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I only lived in lovely Buffalo for a couple years as a functioning adult (though I was raised there) but I have to say the poetry community in Buffalo is way bad ass-- Just Buffalo Literary Center (while I was there) was a great, vibrant organization that really supported local, local writers (off the radar in every way) and had several monthly readings at which there was a regular crowd but also many people (and students) coming in and out. JB also brought in many great literary figures to read on a regular basis. Mike Kelleher was involved in bringing writers like Bernadette Mayer, Michael Palmer, Cheryl Clarke, Hilda Morley, Yusef Komunyakaa, and Joy Harjo to Buffalo... there wasn't much of a connection between the university and the community (well besides Mike but I think this was before he joined the poetics program) but townies definitely went to and benefited from University sponsored readings. the poetry scene in Buffalo while I was there was generous, democratic, and little quirky. you'd have these sixteen year old high schools reading poems and then Mrs Baird (as in Baird Hall on the UB campus) come up and read something. kind of surreal. there was a public access show (starring this guy who dressed all in black with black beret and wore dark sunglasses and called himself "The Unknown Poet") plus something on the local NPR--there were workshops, readings series at some of the bars, JB did a "writer in residence" thing where they'd choose five years a year in an open reading and give them money to put on workshops and readings. i always thought there was a lot of potential for more connection between the university and the community. maybe it's happening. there's an amazing community book store called "rust belt books" that moved to a bigger location and is now doing a reading series plus i guess they are starting to do partnership events with some organizations in Niagara Falls (plus great bookstore there called....Book Corner I think?) there are a bunch of literary magazines that get published in Buffalo not affiliated with the university including Eclectic Literary Forum, Slipstream, Earth's Daughters, plus probably a bunch I am not thinking of. Any way this post got silly long. Just check out JB's website at www.justbuffalo.org --- Mark Weiss wrote: > Is there a poetry scene or a university? Or put > another way, would whatever > poetry scene there is exist without the university? > > Mark > > > At 02:08 PM 7/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Most people don't know anything about the poetry > scene here in Buffalo; it > >is as if it doesn't exist. > > > >Best, Geoffrey > > > > > >Geoffrey Gatza > >editor BlazeVOX2k3 > > > > __o > > _`\<,_ > > (*) / (*) > > > >www.blazevox.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "miekal and" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:18 AM > >Subject: Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with > cultural offerings > > > > > > > (no mention of the poetics program or the poetry > scene) > > > > > > > > > Arts community unites in tourism push > > > > > > Buffalo, New York, lures visitors with cultural > offerings > > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/07/10/ > > > sprj.st03.buffalo.tourism.ap/index.html > > > > > > ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:33:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: "fairy / decorator" Comments: cc: ksilem@mindspring.com, lcabri@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There's a sound file of "Love, O Careless Love" being sung in a 1969 Missouri performance, at [turn on your speakers]: http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/maxhunter/0686/0686.ram I would have thought the use of the word "fairy" in a 1950s poems like Lowell's, or any poem, for that matter, ("fairy", mark you, compounded into "fairy / decorator" by the added stereotype of the homosexual as interior decorator) would be as serious a stumbling block to a 2003 reader as the use of "Jew" banker or "nigger" in a T.S. Eliot or William Carlos Williams poem. Kasey's disclaimer that he doesn't get "what Lowell is going for here" would have been an understandable demur to avoid the whole incriminating subject altogether and not even touch dirty business like this. Louis, meanwhile, wants to turn the fairy decorator into an ~allegory.~ That seems very blindered to the reality that Lowell has constructed a poem with "fairy" smack-dab at the middle of it: the iconography of emblematic figures of Poetry may be given something like a rose to hold, usually, but the finishing touch to their symbolism is never an ~"awl",~ as it is here. Besides, "Skunk Hour" isn't an ~ars poesis;~ it's about ~sex,~ "perverse," voyeuristic night prowler sex. What is Lowell doing putting this "fairy decorator" into "Skunk Hour"? The fairy decorator has to be explained/explicated as a ~fairy,~ not as a metaphor. (A) Placing the fairy decorator as the last human silhouette we'll see in the poem before it's overtaken by only his own guilt and nocturnal animals is a defense. No matter what scandal Lowell might have sunk to with his Peeping Tom parking lot skulking, at least, the fairy is there to remind us, there are others that are worse off than him. Even a voyeur pervert, as long as he's hetero like Lowell, ain't all that bad, when you keep in mind and have as a conspicuous reminder the presence of worse taboos like being a "fairy decorator." (B) The fairy is there not as part of a see-saw meant to keep Lowell from looking worse, but as an instance of ~empathy,~ identification, or a fellow rogues' gallery criminal. Lowell is counting himself side-by-side with law-breaking, effeminate inverts. In his own awfulness, he is establishing solidarity with other children of the night. The fairy decorator is a fellow misfit. (C) The influence of Allen Ginsberg's confessional poetry upon the writing of "Skunk Hour" is one Lowell well-documented. With Ginsberg as the titular figurehead of incipient confessionalism at that point, though, and with much of Ginsberg's "truth" and shock value owing to his inclusion of ~"fairy"~ biography, Lowell is pointedly distancing himself from any associations, however slight, that confessionalism might have take on with Ginsberg-style fairy confessionalists. He is making the point that, although Lowell may be sick in the head, he's still sane enough to show proper all-American male contempt for interior decorators. Lowell's transgression (pecadillo) is at least kept ~private~ and secretive (until the publication of the poem); the fairy decorator's objectionable fairyness is constantly broadcast ~publicly~ by every detail that surrounds him: his "fishnet" (more colloquially, a type of ladies' stocking) and his louche taste in colors. (D) ? . . . Those glosses may not be solely Kasey's and Louis' straight male avoidance (obliviousness?) to how the real lingering stench of "Skunk Hour" isn't in the (anality of the) skunks' spray (a skunk lifts its tail exposing its anus to discharge its stink: "ostrich tail"). The first de-personalization was Lowell's, and they're just following suit: as if in confirmation of Lowell's claim that "nobody's here", we see nothing of the fairy decorator himself, we don't know what he looks like and he isn't described, ~nor~ are the poem's other characters; the only proof of people's existence there is in their paraphernalia: the decorator's orange cork, etc., and a workbench so distracting that it absorbs all of Kasey's attention toward the setting and he doesn't even notice/mention that this segue into a "Hitchcockian" mis-en-scene includes the Hitchcockian prop of the fairy decorator's dangerous pointed cutting instrument so sharp that it can pierce holes through wood, the decorator's "awl". The iconography is not that of Poetry, but of some strange psychological dream threat. (. . . "awl", foreshadowed in the previous stanza by its rhyme, "yawl". Lowell's onomastic narcissism makes those images doubly significant: the autograph w and l in "Lowell" is just below the surface of the w and l in "yawl" and "awl"; "Lowell", in the wrong drawl, rhymes with "yawl" and "awl".) (I'm not a zoologist, but--- about “march on their soles [what else are they going to march on? . . .] up Main Street”: Skunks have ~nonretractile~ claws. That is, unlike cats, who can retract their claws and walk silently on the pads (soles) of their feet, wouldn't the nonretractile claws of the skunk, which are always sticking out as it walks along, in fact make a ~grating,~ clicking sound on macadam as they walk along, so that skunks ~don't~ actually march on their soles, except in poems like this? They kind of clipclop back and forth between their claws and their pads.) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Getting Ready to Have Been Skunked Comments: To: UK Poetry List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [Please read the blog for more sophisticated formatting: www.arras.net/weblog.] Kasey once again puts in the hours on his blog, this time about Lowell's "Skunk Hour." I don't have time to read the most recent post with any attention, I have laundry to do (and have to get back to my construction job). But I caught wind of the followng from Steve Evans' Third Factory there:
Though Lowell leaves me cold after numerous dutiful attempts, I'd been following Free Space Comix's recent defense of him with interest and admiration - until I hit the claim about "the tortured, jagged, compressed rhythms" of "Skunk Hour'" being like "punk rock." I'd as soon assent to that statement as vote for Bush in 2004.
What I wrote was, of course, quite different:
...because a formal technique is being employed (in his case the "new sentence," which never, frankly, struck me as radical) hardly spares a poem (such as his tiring, distracted Roof book N/O) from being branded as passive -- about language, about society, about issues of epistemology and genre. What can be more "quietudinous" than a passivity regarding these issues? In comparison, the tortured, jagged, compressed rhythms of Lowell's "The Skunk Hour" come off as punk rock.
There's a matter of context -- I would never mistake Lowell for a member of Black Flag -- and of the verb "come off,” as here means "mistakenly appear to be". One can fart on a subway and one can fart in church - in one case, it's an act of indifference or even (considering the options, such as vomiting) "quietude," and in another heresy. Of course, I was being provocative, but I'm not sure what the point of elliding the subtlety of this statement is; such activity overripens this discussion, gets it ready to be old news too soon. I think it pays to be careful, if one cares. The 60 so odd pages of "Non," from N/O, are rather listless and, I say, also tedious. More importantly, though, you will not find any poignant societal perspective there even after twenty pages, compared to which the 8 or so stanzas of "Skunk Hour" are like a 1 minute 30 second burst of - indeed - "negative" energy. Lowell lines up his targets and then takes them down; Silliman drifts along -- in a similar quasi-pastoral mode, paratactically or not -- reminding us periodically of his cred or "lineage" as a post-Marxist, post-structuralist syntactician ("Schizophrenoform"). The landscape is, at least in my view (I am getting a little forceful and final in my statements of quality here, I fear), left much the way he found it. "The car radio bleats..." (from the "Skunk Hour") has a similar, if not the same, negatively that Adorno emits when writing about popular culture; it’s an uncompromising condemnation, modified by a bad mood. And am I all that wrong in hearing "I am an antrichirst" in the words "I myself am Hell" -- in contrast to various "I's" (mostly exhibited as "eyes") we see below? Drop the 8 stanzas of "Skunk Hour" into "Non" and I'm sure you will see -- like dropping Radiohead's "Morning Bell," one of their sweeter songs, into Eno's “tedious” Thursday Afternoon -- that you will hear compression, negativity, focus, passion, and noise. If the issue is class and political viewpoint, it's worth remembering that a lot of punk rock bands were 1) populated by upper-middle-class renegades like Joe Strummer, or 2) populated by neo-Nazi skinheads or alluded to Nazi imagery quite careless of politics. (I don't think anyone is saying Lowell is a neo-Nazi, of course.) The following is from "Non":
Divide wire coat hangers into those with cardboard, those without, those wrapped in filmy white paper, whether the hook is formed by one metal strand or two, design of the twist at the base of the neck      what I like most      about the Albany Public Library      is that it smells      the same as when I was six years old Schizophrenoform           It's not that           there's a dead cat in the gutter but           that it's been there all week      snoodlenook           Little moths under the porchlight,           be with me now           A dog in the distance           barks compulsively           Birds chirp           to greet the early dusk the landlady lives at the foot of the stairs that run down the hill beside the house so wooded you don't even notice them             &nbs p;  Dreamlike,           the color TV      thru the neighbor's gauze curtain      ice crackles as it melts        nibbling Cracker Jacks from the palm of my hand        the little man in the blue suit salutes the runner forgets to run, so is easily forced at second
Etc. etc. It goes on like this (or has gone on like this) for 30 or so pages. Is it really a strength of the “new sentence” that a pretty dull observation about the Albany Public Library, conveyed indifferently, rubs up against rather bizarre coinages (or perhaps overhead neologisms) such as “snoodlenook”? Is it right of me to hear the attenuation of syntax that we enjoy in WCW’s “As the cat...” poem in the first stanza here, or one of Marianne Moore’s “precisionist” poems about the structures of animals and shorelines, but with none of the formal elegance (or “precision”)? What is the nature of the irony of “be with me now” in reference to the moths -- just dropping an echo of some other strata of language, some plead to God one might make in the throes of a distaster? Why? But most importantly, beyond these sytlistic issues: where is the urgency here? I really do believe that arguments can be made for this sort of poetics of "drift" -- the "Drifted... drifted precitate" section of Pound's Mauberley, in the section in which Mauberley is in exile, echoes through my mind as I write this -- but I'd really like to hear them, especially related to a politics of "critique.") Compare "the landlady" and "a dog" to the lengths Lowell takes to make his figures specific and of his locale, and you'll see why I think Lowell is much closer to the imagist / Williams aesthetic line than is generally believed (at least in what is now "our" cyber gopherspace). "The Skunk Hour" bears comparison to Williams' "The pure products..." poem -- which I think is perhaps WCW's greatest single poem and perhaps my favorite of our long 20th century. I am not saying I think "Skunk Hour" is as innovative, as "good," at radical, or productive, etc., just that its author learned his lessons well from the predecessor poem. It's a visionary evocation of an American landscape about which he can say little discursively but whose images -- in the guise of animals, garbage, shitty music, displaced horniness, etc. -- haunts and oppresses him. As I claim in a review -- which I will publish eventually on this blog -- after this you can only go to Ashbery and "Daffy Duck in America" -- a whole-hearted reclamation of the sublime production scale of pop culture in the grand metrics of, indeed, the "tradition." (I word it better there.) (On a similar note, has anyone noticed, or thought about, how Ashbery's early "Portrait of Little J.A." is a defusing parody of the "confessional" mode, voiced through what I think of as a particularly [male] gay affect of envisioning oneself as the over-sensitive, delicate flower threatened by the violence inherent in heterosexual, suburban "normalcy"? "Normalcy" itself is coinage of Harding's, one of the few presidents that seem to crop up in JA's poems periodically. Anyway, I think the heavy rhymes, the stanzas, the "there I was" Mary Pickford woe-is-me attidue of the poem suggests some camping of the heroic "confessional" mode.) Lowell's phrase "hermit heiress" is far from obvious -- it's actually an interesting coinage, considering its position in the enjambment. I always wonder, reading this, whether one is prodded to sound out the "h" in "heiress" seeing it come right after "hermit," and where that would take me -- in the language, geographically and classwise -- to do so. I don't find similar changes of speeds in the metrics of, say, Duncan -- the second line of "Skunk Hour" seems the remains of the explosion caused by the blockage of "hermit" the previous line, three words that seem just tripping over each other. This is a sign of the care I feel Lowell takes in his best poems with sound patterning -- a sign of his relationship to Hopkins, who he's written about finely. I guess my central question is, in these quick notes: which poem is more focused in its "negativity," more attuned to the properties of language, more aware that time, indeed, is precious, and that reading (not to mention writing) should not be a matter of indifference but rather a point-by-point handling of the opportunities and issues it throws up? (I'm perfectly aware that fifteen volumes more of boring dross has been written about "Skunk Hour" than about "Non," or about Grenier and Antin or Silliman's great other books for that matter, and that some more of the latter needs to be done. My argument is for an approach to poetry that can get past the telegraphing of "lineages" and tell us, with fresh eyes, what in fact the language is doing in a poem -- after all, one of the great claims of the poets who are not of the "quietude" is that there's some sort direct engagement with language as material that other poets are lacking. I'm just not convinced that's true -- we are all prone to sleeping on the job.) ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:57:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: "fairy / decorator" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Add this to the mix: In "Words for Hart Crane," which I read as an homage to Crane and also an elevation of Lowell, himself, to the status of Whitman, Shelley, and Crane," the speaker would have us empathize with his anger at those who have not properly revered his Crane, his Whitman, and his Shelley. However, I am troubled by what I see as Lowell's own obsessive guilt when he ascribed to his revered homosexual poet(s) sexual predation which only reinforces the homophobic stereotypes of his era: "why I took / to stalking sailors" and "wolfing the stray lambs" and the notion that the homosexual poet(s)' admirer "must lay his heart out for my bed and board." In addition, earlier on he adds to "dope" (those inferior to Crane who were awarded Pulitzers) that term "screw," which according to Merriam-Webster has several plays: 3 : a worn-out horse (suggesting the mis-awarded recipients were less than worthy?); 5 : a prison guard (suggesting that they guard the re-hashed versification of old?); 6 : one who bargains shrewdly; also : SKINFLINT; (suggesting that they calculate to recreate previously desirable verse); and b usually vulgar : a partner in sexual intercourse (again, the sexual innuendo, whereas just the one term, "dope," would have sufficed). Of course, my reading is, among other things, skewed and incomplete: Charles Altieri provides wider context: "Lowell learned in "Words for Hart Crane" that self-analysis and debasement were the preconditions for salvation in the American Wasteland" (Altieri, from Enlarging the Temple: New Directions in American Poetry during the 1960s http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/g_l/lowell/skunk.htm ). Steve ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ryan fitzpatrick Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed orange rhymes with door hinge ryan >From: Louis Cabri >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:37:25 -0600 > >P.S. One further detail on the Lowell stanza. Lore about the word orange >among rhyming dictionarists is that nothing chimes with it. A flavor of >this >word carries into jazz with Mingus's "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress." > >Interestingly, Patrick Herron's poem has no orange in it; Kasey's blog is >not "Orange Tree"; there is a Calgary poetry magazine "Orange"; O'Hara's >not >a painter because of orange; Tom Orange hasn't emailed in awhile; and they >all, no doubt, have read "Skunk Hour." How is this possible? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:05:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" In-Reply-To: <20030711203356.6732.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed All good points except the zoological. San Diego is full of skunks, and more than once I've confronted them (or vice versa) on the concrete path of my back yard. I can't give details of their gait, but they neither scrape or clipclop, at least my skunks. They also don'yt move very fast--not many reasons to if you're a skunk. Mark At 01:33 PM 7/11/2003 -0700, you wrote: >There's a sound file of "Love, O Careless Love" being >sung in a 1969 Missouri performance, at [turn on your >speakers]: > >http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/maxhunter/0686/0686.ram > > >I would have thought the use of the word "fairy" in a >1950s poems like Lowell's, or any poem, for that >matter, ("fairy", mark you, compounded into "fairy / >decorator" by the added stereotype of the homosexual >as interior decorator) would be as serious a stumbling >block to a 2003 reader as the use of "Jew" banker or >"nigger" in a T.S. Eliot or William Carlos Williams >poem. > >Kasey's disclaimer that he doesn't get "what Lowell is >going for here" would have been an understandable >demur to avoid the whole incriminating subject >altogether and not even touch dirty business like >this. Louis, meanwhile, wants to turn the fairy >decorator into an ~allegory.~ That seems very >blindered to the reality that Lowell has constructed a >poem with "fairy" smack-dab at the middle of it: the >iconography of emblematic figures of Poetry may be >given something like a rose to hold, usually, but the >finishing touch to their symbolism is never an >~"awl",~ as it is here. Besides, "Skunk Hour" isn't >an ~ars poesis;~ it's about ~sex,~ "perverse," >voyeuristic night prowler sex. > >What is Lowell doing putting this "fairy decorator" >into "Skunk Hour"? The fairy decorator has to be >explained/explicated as a ~fairy,~ not as a metaphor. > >(A) Placing the fairy decorator as the last human >silhouette we'll see in the poem before it's overtaken >by only his own guilt and nocturnal animals is a >defense. No matter what scandal Lowell might have >sunk to with his Peeping Tom parking lot skulking, at >least, the fairy is there to remind us, there are >others that are worse off than him. Even a voyeur >pervert, as long as he's hetero like Lowell, ain't all >that bad, when you keep in mind and have as a >conspicuous reminder the presence of worse taboos like >being a "fairy decorator." > >(B) The fairy is there not as part of a see-saw meant >to keep Lowell from looking worse, but as an instance >of ~empathy,~ identification, or a fellow rogues' >gallery criminal. Lowell is counting himself >side-by-side with law-breaking, effeminate inverts. >In his own awfulness, he is establishing solidarity >with other children of the night. The fairy decorator >is a fellow misfit. > >(C) The influence of Allen Ginsberg's confessional >poetry upon the writing of "Skunk Hour" is one Lowell >well-documented. With Ginsberg as the titular >figurehead of incipient confessionalism at that point, >though, and with much of Ginsberg's "truth" and shock >value owing to his inclusion of ~"fairy"~ biography, >Lowell is pointedly distancing himself from any >associations, however slight, that confessionalism >might have take on with Ginsberg-style fairy >confessionalists. He is making the point that, >although Lowell may be sick in the head, he's still >sane enough to show proper all-American male contempt >for interior decorators. Lowell's transgression >(pecadillo) is at least kept ~private~ and secretive >(until the publication of the poem); the fairy >decorator's objectionable fairyness is constantly >broadcast ~publicly~ by every detail that surrounds >him: his "fishnet" (more colloquially, a type of >ladies' stocking) and his louche taste in colors. > >(D) ? . . . > > >Those glosses may not be solely Kasey's and Louis' >straight male avoidance (obliviousness?) to how the >real lingering stench of "Skunk Hour" isn't in the >(anality of the) skunks' spray (a skunk lifts its tail >exposing its anus to discharge its stink: "ostrich >tail"). The first de-personalization was Lowell's, >and they're just following suit: as if in confirmation >of Lowell's claim that "nobody's here", we see nothing >of the fairy decorator himself, we don't know what he >looks like and he isn't described, ~nor~ are the >poem's other characters; the only proof of people's >existence there is in their paraphernalia: the >decorator's orange cork, etc., and a workbench so >distracting that it absorbs all of Kasey's attention >toward the setting and he doesn't even notice/mention >that this segue into a "Hitchcockian" mis-en-scene >includes the Hitchcockian prop of the fairy >decorator's dangerous pointed cutting instrument so >sharp that it can pierce holes through wood, the >decorator's "awl". The iconography is not that of >Poetry, but of some strange psychological dream >threat. > > >(. . . "awl", foreshadowed in the previous stanza by >its rhyme, "yawl". Lowell's onomastic narcissism >makes those images doubly significant: the autograph w >and l in "Lowell" is just below the surface of the w >and l in "yawl" and "awl"; "Lowell", in the wrong >drawl, rhymes with "yawl" and "awl".) > > > >(I'm not a zoologist, but--- about "march on their >soles [what else are they going to march on? . . .] up >Main Street": > >Skunks have ~nonretractile~ claws. That is, unlike >cats, who can retract their claws and walk silently on >the pads (soles) of their feet, wouldn't the >nonretractile claws of the skunk, which are always >sticking out as it walks along, in fact make a >~grating,~ clicking sound on macadam as they walk >along, so that skunks ~don't~ actually march on their >soles, except in poems like this? They kind of >clipclop back and forth between their claws and their >pads.) > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:38:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Orange was the color of her dress. Once you swung the door hinge...what a mess! ("G'on hawn, g'on hawn!") Vernon (Mingus aficionado & retired bassist) ----- Original Message ----- From: "ryan fitzpatrick" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > orange rhymes with door hinge > > ryan > > > >From: Louis Cabri > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:37:25 -0600 > > > >P.S. One further detail on the Lowell stanza. Lore about the word orange > >among rhyming dictionarists is that nothing chimes with it. A flavor of > >this > >word carries into jazz with Mingus's "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress." > > > >Interestingly, Patrick Herron's poem has no orange in it; Kasey's blog is > >not "Orange Tree"; there is a Calgary poetry magazine "Orange"; O'Hara's > >not > >a painter because of orange; Tom Orange hasn't emailed in awhile; and they > >all, no doubt, have read "Skunk Hour." How is this possible? > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:19:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: question about motherhood book In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Not sure how a book about poet/mothers misses the role of the father--it isn't a book about poet/fathers. I mean, I'm really interested in and invested in all sorts of parenting/caregiving relationships, but that doesn't preclude the need (for me, at least) for a book in which the particular roles/problems/joys of being a poet and a woman and a mother are discussed. Remember that only now, only in my generation (of young poets born in the 60s and later), is there even an existing generation of more than a handful of women who are both poets and mothers to whom we can look for guidance, inspiration, etc., and simply acknowledging this fact seems an important role of such a book: here are these very well-established and respected women poets who are also raising children. And my understanding is that poets or no, women still do the vast majority of the child-rearing in this country, and even in heterosexual homes where the child-rearing is "split" between the man and the woman (ie, where both parents work full-time and parent full-time), the women still end up spending more time with the kids than the man does (this according to Naomi Wolf's book on Motherhood as well as what I know from friends). This is not to claim that there aren't men who are taking on the majority of child-rearing, or that there aren't many other kinds of families out there, but that a book on what it means to be both a working poet and a mother is certainly still very relevant and relatively unexplored. Certainly a book on male poets who are hard at work raising children could also be very compelling. But I wonder (honestly, not rhetorically) if there are many men with established poetry careers who are also doing half or more of the work of raising the children in their homes? I hope if not now, there will be soon, and then a book on the subject will be very important. Arielle --- Stephen Vincent wrote: > Not to take away from the particularity of the > relationship of mother, > child(ren) and the making of poetry, my apprehension > here is that the title > & configuration continue to reaffirm an archetype > that - at least for some > of us - is retro. In light of the radical > reconfigurations of family over > the last three decades, it is a title that misses > the consideration of the > father as often a fully responsible member of > however parent(s) define and > re-define the equations of parenting, work and the > imagination. And, > consequently, within these new family frames, the > title ends up seeming to > exclude the rich - and often hotly contested - > territory in which creative > work is impacted by these new configurations of > mothers, fathers, children > and the permissions of the muse(s). > > It's a title that many fully participant fathers may > find dismissive and > possibly hurtful. And mothers - if I may speculate - > may find anachronistic > and limiting. On the other hand, not having reading > it yet, it could be full > of great essays. Certainly it is good at all to > have a book that explores > the relationship of parenting and the position poets > within its demands. > > > I suspect others - privately or publicly - will > have much to say on this. > > Stephen Vincent > > on 7/11/03 8:29 AM, Arielle Greenberg at > ariellecg@YAHOO.COM wrote: > > > I haven't read it yet, Susan (the book she's > talking > > about is The Grand Permission: New Writings on > Poetics > > and Motherhood, from Wesleyan) but you can find > out > > more about it at > > > http://www.dartmouth.edu/acad-inst/upne/0-8195-6644-6.html. > > > > I would certainly hope it has essays on > "nonstandard" > > motherhoods, but I'm not sure... > > > > Best of luck with your course--what an important > > topic! > > Arielle > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:13:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... In-Reply-To: <4D432203.18AF9731.01F36A84@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig Allen Conrad wrote: >| hey you poets out there what was a poem >| that SHOOK your formative years? I was fortunate enough to have Caesar Blake, editor of the Norton Anthology of Poetry as my first poetry teacher and I will never forget the Alice Walker + Langston Hughes + Gwendolyn Brooks + Amiri Baraka poems (often Xeroxed, not in anthology) which he taught despite being a Emily Dickinson scholar. You should have heard the timid + white Toronto freshman girls reciting "It's Nation Time!" with exuberant encouragement from Professor Blake. It was his last class before retirement and I think he was enjoying himself. I remember Creeley's "The Ballad of the Despairing Husband" was my first memorized poem because it seemed easy + rhymed (we had to memorize poems in Caesar's class). And I remember Caesar forcing us frail university freshman to read aloud all of "Howl" together -- that being the first time I was exposed to profanity in literature! Yikes! Or, Jay Millar, who later introduced me to Berrigan's "Whitman in Black" and bill bisset's 'Tomato Conspiracy:' TH TOMATO CONSPIRACY AINT WORTH A WHOL POME Bill Bisset very few peopul realize this but altho yu hav 5 or 6 billyun peopul walking around beleeving that tomatoez ar red they ar actually blu nd ar sprayd red to make ther apperance consistent with peopuls beleef i was whuns inside th largest tomato spraying plant in th world with binoculars nd camoflage material all ovr me nd ive got th pictures to proov it oranges uv corz ar not orange nor ar lemons lemon color its all a marage it was decreed what color things wud b at th beginning nd then theyve bin colord that way evr since it adds to th chemicals nd artifishulness uv everything we eet tho did yu know that oranges ar actually a discouraging off color i was luky really to get out uv th tomato factoree alive th tomatoez wer really upset to b xposd ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:59:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AdeenaKarasick@CS.COM Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for the record, that's bill bissett and yeah, my first poetry teacher, Warren Tallman (co-editor of new American Poetry and Poetics with Don Allen) rocked my world with poems by him -- with his out-lawed, improper, contaminated investigations into language "the manee n varied langwage notaysyuns/ not as an imitaysyun uv life..." which first got me thinking about how language structures become simulacric of social practice. where his bizarre, unconventional, and sometimes tortured spelling, orthography "punktuayshyun" are not merely idiosyncratic, but directly synecdochic of the gaps, caesuras, and silences which exist between the language, which is the signifier of power, and the experience it represents. Adeena ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:32:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: wall void nikuko baby MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No not nikuko but kikowu @ kikowu . com WuWuWu Oui oui oui Whoa, boy, whoa a carytid with hypertrophied dugs like empty cartoon bubbles with aureate full-stops smug in ineluctable visible risible like the wolf children Romulus and Remus nursing rebus a semi-fertility figurine sans hips like chix with dix trannies with mini-hypertrophied dugs that when old aged are flaccid farts Plato's cave in cyberspace baby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:54:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A fawning grotesquerie in a certain figure by an illustrator of Grimm's fairy tales I can't conjure right now but the whiteness around it, or a picture of Rumpelstiltskin deep in the forest with a light shining on him, the idea of a man ripping himself in twain like a macabre yogi, and my father's voice reading Joel Chandler Harris' Tarbaby and talking like Donald Duck. But poems never shook me that I know of because the nuns made me read them and Sister Alberta was more ancient than Caesar's Gallic Wars. But maybe reading Rimbaud, listening to Toru Takemitsu, Albert Ayler and Eric Dolphy stoned, first Charlie Parker album bought the day I saw a pheasant in the backyard far away from any woods? God, who knows? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:18:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For its playfulness, Service's "The Cremation of Sam McGee," from The Spell of the Yukon, which my Dad found up a tree he climbed as a kid & gave to me c. age 10. For poignancy & parataxis, Pound's translation of "The River Merchant's Wife: A Letter." For immediacy, R. H. Blyth's 4 volume Haiku, but--for a newclueyear explosion--Jack Spicer's After Lorca: book as poem, poem as 'kneebone connected to the thighbone.' Come to think of it, each these works winds up a Blakean "golden thread" of emotional responsibility as an emergence from the labyrinth of the quotidian. That thread becomes the 'third leg' of the Sphinx's riddle, Michel Serres' 'third man'--the tertium, terse. Or 'verse,' so to say. Oedipus becomes the Sphinx so nobody else has to, but that doesn't become clear till the stony mirror receives its full sheen. Then the poet disappears. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... > hey you poets out there what was a poem that SHOOK your formative years? > > when i was an early teen this little poem made me very happy, and created new ideas for poetry in me back then: > > ON THE SILL > by Spike Hawkins, from THE LOST FIRE BRIGADE (1968 edition) > > Dust opens > its little > mouth and > Yawns > Silvers > in the > Light > > --------- > then, 5 or 6 years later i was introduced to this: > > excerpt from QUINTETS > by Iliassa Sequin > > V > > would you confound - in dual languor > another artifice of sapped inventions, interred smiles > > as if the moon miscarried > her inanimate yellow > > elsewhwere 'disburden' from below the desert > a cowered trophy > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:38:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" Comments: To: Jeffrey Jullich In-Reply-To: <20030711203356.6732.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jeffrey, for what it's worth I think the clearest answer from your list below is "B" - for better or worse (and not without probematic sexual politics, as they say) Lowell is empathizing with the fairy decorator. There is the Hart Crane connection already mentioned: "there is no money in his work" mirroring the line "my profit was a pocket with a hole" in "Words for Hart Crane" (again, I agree with the objections already raised to this latter poem's characterization of the homosexual writer, but that doesn't mean Lowell wasn't empathizing - Lowell was himself, after all, full of self-loathing). But there's also the fact that the "love-cars" episode is based on an anecdote Lowell had heard about Whitman. By the way, the skunk, it has always seemed to me, is also Lowell himself - "I've been working like a skunk, doggedly and happily since mid August" he wrote to Jarrell in '57. The pun on "rich" air at the end is his signal that henceforth whatever stinks is the stuff of poetry. Somewhere (quoted in the margins of my old copy of Life Studies) Lowell writes of the skunks, "the march of affirmation, an ambiguous one...both quixotic and barbarously absurd, hence the tone of amusement and defiance." I'm not saying I buy all this, just trying to point to Lowell's intentions. As Brian has discussed at length, Lowell did sort of believe he was choosing a third way and indeed to an extent he was. But the quote from Duncan which Kasey posted at Limetree is right on the money: Lowell's formal innovation is always executed in a state of fear. He speaks to the collapse of, especially, the aesthetic project of Southern Agrarians and the later Eliot. But he doesn't do it with cheer as Williams and Ginsberg did. I have to say again, if you really want to see where the fault lines are, compare something like "My Last Afternoon with Uncle Devereax" to Edward Marshall's "Leave the Word Alone." Here's the Lowell: My perfection was the Olympian poise of my models in the imperishable autumn display windows of Rogers Peet's boys' store below the State House in Boston. Distorting drops of water pinpricked my face in the basin's mirror. I was a stuffed toucan with a bibulous, multicolored beak. And here's the Marshall (from 1956): When I was six the boy out back said my mother was crazy and I thought he didn't like my mother (present) who is my aunt by marriage Vernon -- he heard loose talk from his mother but I always thought Vernon's mother odd and his Sister Irene liked to play around with me before I understood sex and Vernon used to get pleasure sticking paper up my ass and he was Greek American -- Father worked at St. Clair's ice cream shop Offhand I would say that Marshall, doing projective verse, is able to communicate all the sexual/familial confusion *aesthetically*, via line and spacing. His ease with the line mirrors a refreshing ease with the material -- i.e., he is not confessing but rather telling. [Another masterpiece in this vein is O'Hara's "Ode to Mike Goldberg ('s Birth and Other Births)"]. Lowell on the other hand has a lot of confusion to confess but he needs it to stand for something more, and so everything must be just so. "I was a stuffed toucan." And *I* was a teenage nymphomaniac! So what? Like I said, I'm with Duncan, what's interesting about Lowell is that all his noodling seems to come out of deep psychological need. That combined with the fact that he seems to piss interesting sounds and phrases. It's cracking me up that all us Buffalolistas are talking about "Skunk Hour"! Off to the white mountains for a week, adieu, adieu, -m. Quoting Jeffrey Jullich : > There's a sound file of "Love, O Careless Love" being > sung in a 1969 Missouri performance, at [turn on your > speakers]: > > http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/maxhunter/0686/0686.ram > > > I would have thought the use of the word "fairy" in a > 1950s poems like Lowell's, or any poem, for that > matter, ("fairy", mark you, compounded into "fairy / > decorator" by the added stereotype of the homosexual > as interior decorator) would be as serious a stumbling > block to a 2003 reader as the use of "Jew" banker or > "nigger" in a T.S. Eliot or William Carlos Williams > poem. > > Kasey's disclaimer that he doesn't get "what Lowell is > going for here" would have been an understandable > demur to avoid the whole incriminating subject > altogether and not even touch dirty business like > this. Louis, meanwhile, wants to turn the fairy > decorator into an ~allegory.~ That seems very > blindered to the reality that Lowell has constructed a > poem with "fairy" smack-dab at the middle of it: the > iconography of emblematic figures of Poetry may be > given something like a rose to hold, usually, but the > finishing touch to their symbolism is never an > ~"awl",~ as it is here. Besides, "Skunk Hour" isn't > an ~ars poesis;~ it's about ~sex,~ "perverse," > voyeuristic night prowler sex. > > What is Lowell doing putting this "fairy decorator" > into "Skunk Hour"? The fairy decorator has to be > explained/explicated as a ~fairy,~ not as a metaphor. > > (A) Placing the fairy decorator as the last human > silhouette we'll see in the poem before it's overtaken > by only his own guilt and nocturnal animals is a > defense. No matter what scandal Lowell might have > sunk to with his Peeping Tom parking lot skulking, at > least, the fairy is there to remind us, there are > others that are worse off than him. Even a voyeur > pervert, as long as he's hetero like Lowell, ain't all > that bad, when you keep in mind and have as a > conspicuous reminder the presence of worse taboos like > being a "fairy decorator." > > (B) The fairy is there not as part of a see-saw meant > to keep Lowell from looking worse, but as an instance > of ~empathy,~ identification, or a fellow rogues' > gallery criminal. Lowell is counting himself > side-by-side with law-breaking, effeminate inverts. > In his own awfulness, he is establishing solidarity > with other children of the night. The fairy decorator > is a fellow misfit. > > (C) The influence of Allen Ginsberg's confessional > poetry upon the writing of "Skunk Hour" is one Lowell > well-documented. With Ginsberg as the titular > figurehead of incipient confessionalism at that point, > though, and with much of Ginsberg's "truth" and shock > value owing to his inclusion of ~"fairy"~ biography, > Lowell is pointedly distancing himself from any > associations, however slight, that confessionalism > might have take on with Ginsberg-style fairy > confessionalists. He is making the point that, > although Lowell may be sick in the head, he's still > sane enough to show proper all-American male contempt > for interior decorators. Lowell's transgression > (pecadillo) is at least kept ~private~ and secretive > (until the publication of the poem); the fairy > decorator's objectionable fairyness is constantly > broadcast ~publicly~ by every detail that surrounds > him: his "fishnet" (more colloquially, a type of > ladies' stocking) and his louche taste in colors. > > (D) ? . . . > > > Those glosses may not be solely Kasey's and Louis' > straight male avoidance (obliviousness?) to how the > real lingering stench of "Skunk Hour" isn't in the > (anality of the) skunks' spray (a skunk lifts its tail > exposing its anus to discharge its stink: "ostrich > tail"). The first de-personalization was Lowell's, > and they're just following suit: as if in confirmation > of Lowell's claim that "nobody's here", we see nothing > of the fairy decorator himself, we don't know what he > looks like and he isn't described, ~nor~ are the > poem's other characters; the only proof of people's > existence there is in their paraphernalia: the > decorator's orange cork, etc., and a workbench so > distracting that it absorbs all of Kasey's attention > toward the setting and he doesn't even notice/mention > that this segue into a "Hitchcockian" mis-en-scene > includes the Hitchcockian prop of the fairy > decorator's dangerous pointed cutting instrument so > sharp that it can pierce holes through wood, the > decorator's "awl". The iconography is not that of > Poetry, but of some strange psychological dream > threat. > > > (. . . "awl", foreshadowed in the previous stanza by > its rhyme, "yawl". Lowell's onomastic narcissism > makes those images doubly significant: the autograph w > and l in "Lowell" is just below the surface of the w > and l in "yawl" and "awl"; "Lowell", in the wrong > drawl, rhymes with "yawl" and "awl".) > > > > (I'm not a zoologist, but--- about “march on their > soles [what else are they going to march on? . . .] up > Main Street”: > > Skunks have ~nonretractile~ claws. That is, unlike > cats, who can retract their claws and walk silently on > the pads (soles) of their feet, wouldn't the > nonretractile claws of the skunk, which are always > sticking out as it walks along, in fact make a > ~grating,~ clicking sound on macadam as they walk > along, so that skunks ~don't~ actually march on their > soles, except in poems like this? They kind of > clipclop back and forth between their claws and their > pads.) > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:33:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: phenomenology of thought MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII phenomenology of thought piss gushes from my prick; sweat pours from my underarms; spit drips from my mouth; my body is awash in bacteria and liquidity; tears envelop my eyes; shit oozes from my asshole; semen cums from my prick; phlegm shoots from my nose; moist breath pours from my lungs; cells slough from my skin; scale falls from my lips; dandruff flakes from my hair; scabs tear from my bites; blood floods from my cuts; nail parings split from my fingers and toes; hairs grow and disappear < my mind thinks through membranes and liquids; skeins and flood-plains > < woe to desiccation and starvation; woe to the rusted machinery of the flood > < already i feel the shifting of the soaking earth; the relative puckering of the valleys; glacial withdrawals; the long way towards cessation > < particulate matter and the expostulation of the machinic > < i remain at a loss among all this delicacy > : " piss from gushes piss from gushes my from prick; my sweat prick; pours sweat underarms; my spit underarms; drips spit mouth; my body my is body awash is in awash bacteria in and bacteria liquidity; and tears liquidity; envelop tears eyes; shoots shit eyes; oozes shit asshole; my semen asshole; cums semen phlegm prick; shoots phlegm nose; my moist nose; breath moist lungs; my cells lungs; slough cells skin; my scale my falls scale lips; my dandruff lips; flakes dandruff hair; my scabs hair; tear scabs bites; and blood bites; floods blood cuts; my nail cuts; parings nail split parings fingers my toes; and hairs toes; grow hairs disappear and < disappear mind my thinks mind through thinks membranes through liquids; starvation; skeins liquids; flood-plains and > flood-plains woe < to woe desiccation to starvation; and the to rusted the machinery rusted of machinery flood the already < i already feel i shifting the soaking the earth; soaking relative the puckering relative valleys; the glacial valleys; withdrawals; the long the way long towards way cessation towards particulate < matter particulate expostulation this machinic the remain i at remain a at loss a among loss all among this all delicacy > " and thinking while thought remains; and the fragility and violence of symbols; and the fragility and violence of the symbolic; and the relative dearth of an earth of seven billion; and the relative scarcity of thought; and the privilege of thought in the midst of streams and rivers, floods and lakes, seas and oceans; the pool and pond - the drowning pool of thought - the rusting pond of mindful thinking - ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:33:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Sum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sum Violinkonzerte hotellilaskuista forecatchinghardco robot ? imagenGator zamiaeaspikem When you open up your own business, everything will change: modosultGator - You can work with your own plciowegoforecatching - Work at your preferred imagenzamiae - Earn more and gain more pinvastaisena:hardco - Start planning your dream cars, home and grspurvs Visit the link below to find out more information about how we can tunmenkyose GatorSCSwdRjAV Click here for more tunimagen Rooms available at devorantesuPiRWldRI ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:21:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... In-Reply-To: <000301c34812$be967b10$6b016ace@satellite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i guess everyone is saying the different ones for the different motions of their life-changes. the first poems that made me realize there was a language system other than the colonizing one that had been starched into my young mouth that had before spoken four languages--urdu, farsi, telugu, and english--as one were "black jam for dr. negro" and "vive noir" by mari evans. after that i discovered victor hernandez cruz and poets of the black arts movement and that was how poetry came into me. ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:57:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: families/poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kirby, Are you being ironic with your remark about a "change to "family studies"? You've got to be kidding! But let me ask you, Have you read Dahlberg's essays? I think he hit the nail on the head and it is so obvious that we Amurrikans caint (I'm reverting to Poundian flummery here, please excuse)see it sometimes, even if we've read dahlberg. In fact, we're obsessed by it (see the posts about Lowell's "fairy decorator" in this list). I mean, The lack of women traditionally in Am. lit. From Whitman to Queequeg in his coffin (Did Ishmael and Queequeg have sex in the coffin I wonder? (Freudian? anal sex and the death instinct?) to Ginsberg (except mention of his insane mother)and Burroughs (except his william-telled wife (which doesn't count because he killed her so that he could not write about her(?))) there aint no presence of women. And if there aint no women you caint have family studies, right Kirby? Unless you are talking about the end times and the demise of the family in the "engineered" creation of human life on earth (why should it be perpetuated except by women?). (My son recounted an episode on the cartoon channel about a time when the earth has been taken over by women after they destroyed all the men. He kind of grinned at me with the absurdity, and did I note a hint of a sense of a vindication of something in his unfathomable semi-androgynous consciousness?) Family Studies would be retrogressive, Kirby. Progress only in the Unified Stations of Amerika, Kirby. If anything, the next stage in the progression is anthroposophic studies of adamic and pre-adamic Wo-Man-kind with Woman in the ascendancy. So that's why we have gender and women's studies, Kirby, didn't you know that? (My good, gay English friend Fr. Francis (before 9/11 and the scandal in The Church of Latter Day Child Molesting Priests (notice the stories broke around the same time -- again the American anal obsession and Freud's death instinct: we get f----d in the you know what by some Saudis with relatively low tech. means and we go gaga against anybody that ties his head with a headcloth or wears a soutane) told me once he couldn't understand Americans and how they must always broadcast what they are and act a certain way, wearing it on the sleeve all the time; it went along with what he considered the "banal" American accent he couldn't stand, he guessed.) One poster was incredulous of another poster's obtuseness in not picking up on the "obvious" reference to the pejorative term "fairy", thus revealing both posters' ingenuousness. So what? My point is quite simple. Why the labelling? Why must Lowell be labelled (I kind of like that alliteration) as a repressed white male? Repression is NOT an exclusionary word (I've been reading Norman O. Brown of late). Again, so what? Why can't both posters' interpretations of "fairy decorator" be acceptable (enough with that Protestant obssession with the One Interpretation)? Here's mine: "fairy decorator" is a personification of autumn (as Jack Frost)and the gay colors of deciduous trees in the fall. And the fishnet and the orange cork is the description of the outer and inner bark of the cork tree. (But I have never read the poem, nor Lowell for that matter, and Jean Paul, who has read more poetry than me, said reading Lowell would be a waste of time and John Logan is a better poet anyways.) Maybe Lowell was trying to make a sincere effort at beat confessional poetry. He was simply of another generation and couldn't do it, and consequemtly sounded unwittingly like a repressed white male, to us. He just couldn't take the persona of what Paul Metcalf in an essay called Ginsberg's "goofiness." Therefore, easy for us to take potshots at. What will our children think about our repressions? Quaint. Maybe it'll all blow over, this hegemony in academe, Kirby. There's hope, maybe, enshallah, as the Arabs say. Please Excuse my dovetailing of responses to several posts at once in this list serve, Kirby. It's getting late and I have to drive the bus. Matt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:57:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: TWHM IX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we regret we received 2-3-4, 4-5-6, 6-7-8, etc., where his the pressure of the air for instance, a person who the social interactions of members the why of power and upon investigation we find the changes, efforts which increasingly to the observer it appears takes the second alternative and is also honored after death nor by the fact that we regret we received outsiders frustrated by the complex this is apparently a feat all our principles were right the group breaks up into a way as to enable we can assure you the fact that it is when a person calls for trustworthiness in the eyes of the the industrial revolution the essence which up to that moment had ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:15:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" Comments: To: Jeffrey Jullich Comments: cc: Brian Stefans , ksilem@mindspring.com In-Reply-To: <20030711203356.6732.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'll throw this out, incomplete to the max, absent conclusions, implications, etc. I don't know what "side" these observations support, it really doesn't matter in a way, poking over the details of poetry like this... I see the phrase "fairy /decorator" as a disarmingly glaring slight now, Jeffrey. And the words were literally there in front of me all along! But they are not literally there in front of me, in a way. Perhaps one reason why Brian likes Lowell is that Lowell's nouns, here, bounce around connotatively, indirectly, in comparison to, say, Silliman's, which are what they are, like Popeye ("I yam what I yam") (a coat hanger is a coat hanger, direct, even though it may be analytically "parsed" into different kinds, designating a kind of change over time, namely product change, then juxtaposed to the unchanging, comforting memory-smell of the public library he grew up with - both scenarios domestic-orientated, i.e. private: coat hangers, growing up: unlike the _public_ library, whose fate is left out of these stanzas that Brian cites on his blog today). Silliman's nouns are often poised in denotation - like birds on a wire (thankyou, Leonard). But the proper nouns "fairy / decorator" and "hermit / heiress" bounce all over in various semantic registers, partly of course because they are proper nouns (and not nouns proper), and partly (relatedly) because much of this poem is about symbolizing social rank (in descending scale, from rich heiress to rich skunks). There is social evaluation going on in Non as well, and it happens between the seemingly objective sentences/stanzas - in those gaps. The denotative level of the noun, and all objective mastery of the stanza organized around an image, simply, wildly explode into uncontrollable, chaotic figural registers of the social, when one attempts to understand how the stanzas juxtapose with each other. In fact with Non (and with The Alphabet in general), not to ride a cliche of how to read this work too much (there are other ways, but this one is well known, as you know), most of the reading happens between the stanzas/sentences, not in the stanzas/sentences themselves. Without reading for that gap, the sentences/stanzas will fall flat. That semantic gap is always changing, even when the content of the stanzas might not change that much thematically (birds, people, interior/exterior descriptions, etc). In between, the connections are unpredictable, but, more importantly, they are _unpredicted_ by the author. In Lowell, the denotative and connotative are not separated levels, as they are in Silliman (ie denotation at level of sentence and stanza; connotation as occuring between the sentences/stanzas). In Lowell, they occur more traditionally in the word, together, as in the "fairy/decorator" stanza. And this under Jeffrey's "C": Lowell's visit to the Magic Workshop, his liking to Helen Adam's "pixy" verse, etc. Blaser queering Spencer's "Faerie Queene." The fairies in Spicer's Holy Grail. Can't these be in there too, bouncing around in the word fairy? There's no stable image in the stanza, it seems. I was thrown by the sea, a motif in the poem, in part. Yeats's fairy stories, linked to the sea, etc. Fisherman/decorator seem to be competing schemas in the stanza, yes, and no. One is never in doubt in Non, at this level. Intriguing lines in _Non_, to me, are the opening ones: So then go back to the old forms as if they were forms at all (9) Back to the "old forms" of being a perceiver in the New American present tense (not down to the ships of history, as in Pound)? _Non_ is dedicated to Jackson Mac Low. Jackson went back to "old forms," in a manner of speaking (i.e. "as if they were forms at all") starting with, e.g., _Twenties_. So too, a little later in _Non_: Ted's sonnets mimic Jackson exactly (14) Berrigan also went back to an old form, the sonnet - only to reinvent it precisely as if the sonnet wasn't ever really mimicable as a form, or ever really about form in purely the formalist's sense in the first place. What's Ron, then, going back to? His own "new" sentence. So, in the opening lines: this is admittedly old form. This disclaimer about form in the opening lines of _Non_ - that, in other words, _Non_ is not going to be about new forms - enables him to concentrate on infusing his given understanding of form sheerly with descriptive social content, happening in mostly an indistinctly cloudlike, spatially floatational way across the page (but there is also prose etc). (As a sidenote to footnote 8 about flarf on the post about retro-chic on Silliman's blog the other day, for what it's worth, let me say that this line about Berrigan and Mac Low, above, is what I think flarf is doing. Chronologically, the Mac Low work in question here is not Twenties, obviously, but rather his chance-determined stuff, Stanzas for Iris Lezak, say. Berrigan imitates chance-determination, and in this sense aestheticizes twice over, like flarf.) What about this, where the doubt theme surfaces as in my reading of the Lowell stanza on UBPoetics yesterday: Titles are often misleading, subtitles seldom are. Checking out the driver in the next car through my rear view mirror at a stop light (one never sees the lower body), thin ebony man with a long white beard, tricolor rasta cap, high sharp cheekbones that cause the eyes to recede. I decide he's a gentle person. Rolls of roofing turned upright, black cylinders atop the gravel. There comes a moment whenever I read my poem when it is apparent it is terrible I'm a fraud, no one would ever choose to hear or to read this, but then this moment of panic passes. (N/O 60) When you read the sentences as discreet units, it's pretty straight-forwardly denotational. But, reading the gaps between these sentences render the sentences completely wild, unpredicted (since the text is so overdetermined with details, it would be impossible to stay in control of their interconnections), unconscious even. Here Silliman reads the "subtitle" of the guy in the car behind him, whose "title" refers to his physical description: "thin ebony man," etc. So, the guy is black, and is advancing on the white narrator, but the "advance" (i.e. suddenly we are no longer in a world of pure, objective-seeming denotation!) is benign ("he's a gentle person"): one can go allegorical here. This "advance" is benign probably because the man is old (eyes receding somewhat) just like the narrator admits of himself (and this ties again to the opening motif of old form). Now the next juxtaposition: how does one account for it? It has to be accounted for. The juxtaposition are not themselves arbitrary: the stanzas/sentences are. The skin color of the older gentleman who is in a car behind the narrator-driver now becomes (and at the same time importantly does _not_ become) the black color of roofing tiles!!? This image's social evaluation is very ambiguous. It is work-to-be-done, of _new_ roofing and of refurbishing - but, is it regentrification, or evidence of upward mobility (whose?), or completely unrelated to housing and instead about industrial expansion (we don't know the narrator's location)? This image becomes the next "title," and its "subtitle" is the following sentence, which seems to carry the emotions the narrator experiences at the sight of the roofing material: self-doubt about his own work-to-be-done as poet. The syntactic wonkiness of the middle phrases of this sentence ("whenever / I read my poem when / it is apparent / it is terrible") mirrors its subject, self-doubt. (I'm off til near end of the month - thanks Kasey, Brian, Jeffrey and UBPoetics generally, Ron, and I can't remember there's so many, for interesting posts!) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:29:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: What to do, what to do... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What to do, what to do... I (RCS Song Titles Index) 29 Bb cw rev. I Cant Stand It Anymore, David Barnes, San 302, 1964 or later (mx est.). I Cant Stand Your Ways Anymore, Dale Hawkins, [unissued], 1956-57. I CANT STAND IT ANYMORE!!! -Clubby- I CANT STAND IT ANYMORE!!! -Clubby-. Category:(General Advice) Created:(11/25/2002 10:30:00 AM) Viewed (155 times). Before you start I CANT STAND IT ANYMOREA LOOK AT FAMILY CONFLICT Page 1. I CANT STAND IT ANYMOREA LOOK AT FAMILY CONFLICT by Linda Pounds, LMFT Have conflicts in your family become more frequent? [Ok I cant stand this anymore] - BlizzForums blizzforums.com. Pages:1. Ok I cant stand this anymore. (Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images) Posted by Diabetes Daily News Message Board DIABETES DAILY NEWS MESSAGE BOARD SUBJECT: I Cant Stand This Site Anymore, 21:04:10. I Cant Stand This Site Anymore - Kathy 11-Jun-03. 16:44:21. Diabetes Daily News Message Board DIABETES DAILY NEWS MESSAGE BOARD SUBJECT: I Cant Stand This Site Anymore, 21:04:10. I Cant Stand This Site Anymore - Kathy 11-Jun-03. 16:44:21. Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Online Email Discussion Group. Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! mike 20:49:55 04/06/03 (0): Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Online Email Discussion Group. Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! In Reply To Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Online Email Discussion Group. Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! In Reply To Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Help, help, Im being repressed!: I cant stand it anymore. Quiet. | Main | Ow. fOwowow. March 07, b2003 I cant stand it anymore. Here I am! (Note: Those are still the old glasses. This I cant stand the torment anymore. I cant stand the torment anymore. I have read many of the things you have posted on your website. It is not impossible or unreasonable Response to Drones and honeybees All That You Cant Stand Anymore By Peter M on 09 . . . . All That You Cant Stand Anymore (Peter M) . . . . Drones and honeybees (Editor) . . . . Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Online Email Discussion Group. Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! In Reply To Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Online Email Discussion Group. Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! In Reply To Re: Preforeclosures: Cant Stand It Anymore! Re: I cant stand it anymore Re: I cant stand it anymore. To: Multiple recipients of list Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: anal mindhose MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anal mindhose anal mouthings of eviscerated asshole cul de shit sack anal mouthings of eviscerated asshole turd cum fart-breath Refrain put your pecker in a peter hole NOTES: 1.)clap feels and looks like a painful snotty nose (what's the sound of clap?) 2.)I got from fucking a dirty asshole after many mushroomy French cocks. 3.)peter-hole: a hole in the ground to deposit a penis in, or local lore of paperboy initiation ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:00:43 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: Salt Summer Promotion -- Offer ends soon! In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit S A L T U K / U S A S U M M E R P R O M O T I O N 2 0 0 3 ______________________________________________ BUY ONE GET ONE FREE! ______________________________________________ Following the success of last year's summer promotion and to celebrate the relaunch of the Salt Publishing website we are offering Salt books for free. With over 60 exciting titles now in print, what better way to discover Salt's list than by receiving free books? Whether it be the "Collected Poems" of John James, Randolph Healy's magnificent "Green 532" or the award-winning "Versary" by Kate Lilley -- make your choice of any two titles and get the cheaper of the two for free (excluding post and packing). Check out our new website catalogue: http://www.saltpublishing.com To benefit from the offer please send details of your order to offers@saltpublishing.com or contact Jennifer at jen@saltpublishing.com for more information. Offer only applies to full price titles shipped from the UK or USA. Offer ends July 31st 2003. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:15:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: ron's poem In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Louis, I think you are reading the Silliman poem (from N/O) a bit heavily. I get no sense of the "thin ebony man" advancing on the speaker at all. He's just "in the next car," and this is a casual checking out of another, in traffic, as we do. Also, in the "high sharp cheekbones . . .cause the eyes to recede" -- I see no indication in that that this is an older man at all, as you say. So there is no advance, not necessarily the age, and the man is "gentle," which is far different than the "benign" in your reading, as only what was feared to be threatening would then be found to be benign. And I read the shift, then, to "Rolls of roofing" simply as a movement of the eyes to something else, with that drop in attention then giving way to a self-aware moment of panic about oneself. Encounter with other, shift away, shift to self. Perhaps at most the speaker sees the other as "real" and then shifts to the real, industrial substance of roofing materials, and for a moment does not think of himself as "real" in the same way. That doubt is the moment of panic, not the sense of any threat that turns out to be benign. You're right that the juxtapositions are not arbitrary, but the import seems much more personal here than social, in fact a true social interaction would be quite different than this vision in traffic where one remains isolated, in the car, disconnected, therefore thrust back on oneself. Yet just as the driver in the other car will eventually pass or turn or otherwise not be a part of the speaker's immediate consciousness, so will the roofing material, and the moment of self-doubt, so in this sense an emotional sensation becomes the equivalent of the other driver and the industrial material, as "real" as anything, and as intermittent as anything. The poem is about such intermittency, the nature of experience, be it sensual or mental, as much as it is about the self-doubt or the encounter (really the lack of encounter) with an other. charles > Titles > are often misleading, > subtitles seldom are. > Checking > out the driver > in the next car > through my rear view mirror > at a stop light > (one never sees > the lower body), > thin ebony man > with a long white beard, > tricolor rasta cap, > high sharp cheekbones > that cause the eyes to recede. > I decide he's a gentle person. > Rolls of roofing > turned upright, > black cylinders atop the gravel. > There comes a moment > whenever > I read my poem when > it is apparent > it is terrible > I'm a fraud, > no one would ever > choose to hear > or to read this, > but then this moment of panic passes. (N/O 60) > >When you read the sentences as discreet units, it's pretty >straight-forwardly denotational. But, reading the gaps between these >sentences render the sentences completely wild, unpredicted (since the text >is so overdetermined with details, it would be impossible to stay in control >of their interconnections), unconscious even. Here Silliman reads the >"subtitle" of the guy in the car behind him, whose "title" refers to his >physical description: "thin ebony man," etc. So, the guy is black, and is >advancing on the white narrator, but the "advance" (i.e. suddenly we are no >longer in a world of pure, objective-seeming denotation!) is benign ("he's a >gentle person"): one can go allegorical here. This "advance" is benign >probably because the man is old (eyes receding somewhat) just like the >narrator admits of himself (and this ties again to the opening motif of old >form). Now the next juxtaposition: how does one account for it? It has to be >accounted for. The juxtaposition are not themselves arbitrary: the >stanzas/sentences are. The skin color of the older gentleman who is in a car >behind the narrator-driver now becomes (and at the same time importantly >does _not_ become) the black color of roofing tiles!!? This image's social >evaluation is very ambiguous. It is work-to-be-done, of _new_ roofing and of >refurbishing - but, is it regentrification, or evidence of upward mobility >(whose?), or completely unrelated to housing and instead about industrial >expansion (we don't know the narrator's location)? This image becomes the >next "title," and its "subtitle" is the following sentence, which seems to >carry the emotions the narrator experiences at the sight of the roofing >material: self-doubt about his own work-to-be-done as poet. The syntactic >wonkiness of the middle phrases of this sentence ("whenever / I read my poem >when / it is apparent / it is terrible") mirrors its subject, self-doubt. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: chapman0603@rogers.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Organization: Chapman Subject: Re: ron's poem In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030712015436.01b65e90@mail.theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe the "black rolls of roofing" is referring to the damp-proofing that goes down before a flat roof is covered in pea gravel and tar. It's rolled out on the edges to meet, and tuck just under, the flashing. These rolls are standing up on the roof in "cylinders" wrapped in thin brown paper. When you roll it out it tends to lick up, "turned up," at the ends. The fraud here is the poet's knowledge of the process of roofing which he has inverted by putting the physical pieces of roofing in an imagined reverse order. There shouldn't be any gravel up there yet. The colors of the people would have to be considered in light of roofers who are generally becoming black as the tar in the kettle, glub glub drub, and the torch in their hands crispssssssssssssssss them. The break allows us to forecast the driver's identity as past and the rasta cap as moving us up on the roof. The breaks are the rungs in the roofer's ladder. Well. That's my line. Chris -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of charles alexander Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:15 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: ron's poem Louis, I think you are reading the Silliman poem (from N/O) a bit heavily. I get no sense of the "thin ebony man" advancing on the speaker at all. He's just "in the next car," and this is a casual checking out of another, in traffic, as we do. Also, in the "high sharp cheekbones . . .cause the eyes to recede" -- I see no indication in that that this is an older man at all, as you say. So there is no advance, not necessarily the age, and the man is "gentle," which is far different than the "benign" in your reading, as only what was feared to be threatening would then be found to be benign. And I read the shift, then, to "Rolls of roofing" simply as a movement of the eyes to something else, with that drop in attention then giving way to a self-aware moment of panic about oneself. Encounter with other, shift away, shift to self. Perhaps at most the speaker sees the other as "real" and then shifts to the real, industrial substance of roofing materials, and for a moment does not think of himself as "real" in the same way. That doubt is the moment of panic, not the sense of any threat that turns out to be benign. You're right that the juxtapositions are not arbitrary, but the import seems much more personal here than social, in fact a true social interaction would be quite different than this vision in traffic where one remains isolated, in the car, disconnected, therefore thrust back on oneself. Yet just as the driver in the other car will eventually pass or turn or otherwise not be a part of the speaker's immediate consciousness, so will the roofing material, and the moment of self-doubt, so in this sense an emotional sensation becomes the equivalent of the other driver and the industrial material, as "real" as anything, and as intermittent as anything. The poem is about such intermittency, the nature of experience, be it sensual or mental, as much as it is about the self-doubt or the encounter (really the lack of encounter) with an other. charles > Titles > are often misleading, > subtitles seldom are. > Checking > out the driver > in the next car > through my rear view mirror > at a stop light > (one never sees > the lower body), > thin ebony man > with a long white beard, > tricolor rasta cap, > high sharp cheekbones > that cause the eyes to recede. > I decide he's a gentle person. > Rolls of roofing > turned upright, > black cylinders atop the gravel. > There comes a moment > whenever > I read my poem when > it is apparent > it is terrible > I'm a fraud, > no one would ever > choose to hear > or to read this, > but then this moment of panic passes. (N/O 60) > >When you read the sentences as discreet units, it's pretty >straight-forwardly denotational. But, reading the gaps between these >sentences render the sentences completely wild, unpredicted (since the text >is so overdetermined with details, it would be impossible to stay in control >of their interconnections), unconscious even. Here Silliman reads the >"subtitle" of the guy in the car behind him, whose "title" refers to his >physical description: "thin ebony man," etc. So, the guy is black, and is >advancing on the white narrator, but the "advance" (i.e. suddenly we are no >longer in a world of pure, objective-seeming denotation!) is benign ("he's a >gentle person"): one can go allegorical here. This "advance" is benign >probably because the man is old (eyes receding somewhat) just like the >narrator admits of himself (and this ties again to the opening motif of old >form). Now the next juxtaposition: how does one account for it? It has to be >accounted for. The juxtaposition are not themselves arbitrary: the >stanzas/sentences are. The skin color of the older gentleman who is in a car >behind the narrator-driver now becomes (and at the same time importantly >does _not_ become) the black color of roofing tiles!!? This image's social >evaluation is very ambiguous. It is work-to-be-done, of _new_ roofing and of >refurbishing - but, is it regentrification, or evidence of upward mobility >(whose?), or completely unrelated to housing and instead about industrial >expansion (we don't know the narrator's location)? This image becomes the >next "title," and its "subtitle" is the following sentence, which seems to >carry the emotions the narrator experiences at the sight of the roofing >material: self-doubt about his own work-to-be-done as poet. The syntactic >wonkiness of the middle phrases of this sentence ("whenever / I read my poem >when / it is apparent / it is terrible") mirrors its subject, self-doubt. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:41:57 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Neighbours stone AIDS widow to death MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From today's Bangkok Post, Ron ----------------------------------------- Neighbours stone Aids widow to death Dinesh C Sharma - New Delhi An HIV-positive woman was stoned to death by her neighbours in a village in South India's Andhra Pradesh state known for its hi-tech image the world over. The attack took place on July 4 in Kuppam, the home constituency of state chief minister N Chandrababu Naidu. Ponnamma, 30, had lost her husband who was suffering from Aids, and she had also tested HIV-positive. Her neighbours first wanted her to leave the village, but when she did not do so they killed her. ``On that gruesome day, some persons attempted to carry away the bench on which she was lying. Sensing that her life was in danger, she tried to get up and run away. She was then chased, stoned and hit with the bench, killed and burnt,'' says R Meera of Women's Initiatives (WINS), an NGO which investigated the case after it was reported in a local daily. ``This is a glimpse of the dark underbelly of our society,'' observed Ms Meera. The incident has been condemned by several organisations working for Aids prevention in India. In a letter to President APJ Abdul Kalam, Brian Haill, the president of Australian Aids Fund Inc, said: ``We ask you to offer your assurance to the people of India so that such a hideous response to the presence of HIV/Aids among your people can never be repeated, and we ask for your comfort for the family of the woman involved and the wide publication of this appalling event as part of your national response to the Aids pandemic.'' For India itself, struggling to get to grips with its huge HIV infection rates, Mr Haill said, this dreadful act would do nothing to do away with the ignorance and fear associated with HIV/Aids and which must be confronted head-on for the sake of India's future. India has close to four million HIV-positive cases, and Andhra Pradesh is among the states reporting high rates of infection. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:42:51 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Reminder: Burger & Silliman in Oakland, July 13 Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This coming Sunday Reading in Oakland, CA Sunday, July 13 7-9 PM Mary Burger Ron Silliman at the gallery 21 Grand 449B 23rd Street (between Broadway & Telegraph) $4 Cover ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:56:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Dowker Subject: The Alterran Poetry Assemblage #8 (in process) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The beginning of the new installment (#8) of the Alterran Poetry Assemblage is now online at http://members.rogers.com/alterra (just click on the upper link, or go directly to http://members.rogers.com/alterra/alterra8.htm) with work by William Fuller, Lissa Wolsak (plus interview by Tom Beckett), Giles Scott, Alan Halsey, Jay Millar, Bob Harrison, )ohnLowther, Nico Vassilakis, Matt McCloud, Drew Gardner, and Lisa Robertson. David alterra@rogers.com http://members.rogers.com/alterra "Ocular logic syllable none presuppose veins of gods" "not Being but something prior to ferocity and intractability of beasts" "anansi zithered antares birdsong threaded rafters ever to you riven whorls" "Bzuarb. Actual Time. Exciter Shunt Field. Lizopard. Longitudinal fissure. Chreec. Contradiction or konkretedichtung. Synchronising Pulses." "veiled arcane rupture intimidating electrical desire" "the one tongue amount that peels letters from its solvent evolutions and cross negations" "with none that goes bang just some that goes moan" "the lightsickness, the dislocation of heat" "Antennae swoon" "The sudden encoded gatherings of private life, animated with open evasion." "We placed our body in relation to their mystical privacies." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:36:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: An Article on Evil -- and bush Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [This article from The Boston Globe is gorgeous. It reminds me distantly of= =20 an aphorism from Solzhenitsyn that I have favored recently, ""If only there= =20 were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were=20 necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But=20 the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human=20 being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"] "Bush's war against evil By James Carroll, 7/8/2003 IN THE GOTHIC splendor of the National Cathedral, that liturgy of trauma,=20 George W. Bush made the most stirring - and ominous - declaration of his=20 presidency. It was Sept. 14, 2001. ''Just three days removed from these=20 events,'' he said, ''Americans do not yet have ''the distance of history.''= =20 But our responsibility to history is already clear: to answer these attacks= =20 and rid the world of evil.'' The statement fell on the ears of most Americans, perhaps, as mere rhetoric= =20 of the high pulpit, but as the distance of history lengthens, events show=20 that in those few words the president redefined his raison d'etre and that= =20 of the nation - nothing less than to ''rid the world of evil.'' The=20 unprecedented initiatives taken from Washington in the last two years are=20 incomprehensible except in the context of this purpose. President Bush, one sees now, meant exactly what he said. Something=20 entirely new, for Americans, at least, is animating their government. The=20 greatest power the earth has ever seen is now expressly mobilized against=20 the world's most ancient mystery. What human beings have proven incapable=20 of doing ever before, George W. Bush has taken on as his personal mission,= =20 aiming to accomplish it in one election cycle, two at most. What the president may not know is that the worst manifestations of evil=20 have been the blowback of efforts to be rid of it. If one can refer to the= =20 personification of evil, Satan's great trick consists in turning the fierce= =20 energy of such purification back upon itself. Across the distance of=20 history, the most noble ambition has invariably led to the most ignoble=20 deeds. This is because the certitude of nobility overrides the moral qualm= =20 that adheres to less transcendent enterprises. The record of this deadly=20 paradox is written in the full range of literature, from Sophocles to=20 Fyodor Dostoyevski to Ursula K. LeGuin, each of whom raises the perennial=20 question: What is permitted to be done in the name of ''ridding the world=20 of evil''? Is lying allowed? Torture? The killing of children? Or, less drastic, the=20 militarization of civil society? The launching of dubious wars? But wars=20 are never dubious at their launchings. The recognition of complexity -=20 moral as well as martial - comes only with ''the distance of history,'' and= =20 it is that perspective that has begun to press itself upon the American=20 conscience now. Having forthrightly set out to rid the world of evil, first in Afghanistan,= =20 then in Iraq, has the United States, willy-nilly, become an instrument of=20 evil? Lying (weapons of mass deception). Torture (if only by US=20 surrogates). The killing of children (''collaterally,'' but inevitably).=20 The vulgarization of patriotism (last week's orgy of bunting). The=20 imposition of chaos (and calling it freedom). The destruction of alliances= =20 (''First Iraq, then France''). The invitation to other nations to behave in= =20 like fashion (Goodbye, Chechnya). The inexorable escalation (''Bring 'em=20 on!''). The made-in-Washington pantheon of mythologized enemies (first=20 Osama, now Saddam). The transmutation of ordinary young Americans (into=20 dead heroes). How does all of this, or any of it, ''rid the world of evil''? Which brings us back to that Gothic cathedral of a question: What is evil=20 anyway? Is it the impulse only of tyrants? Of enemies alone? Or is it tied= =20 to the personal entitlement onto which America, too, hangs its bunting? Is= =20 evil the thing, perhaps, that forever inclines human beings to believe that= =20 they are themselves untouched by it? Moral maturity, mellowed across the=20 distance of history, begins in the acknowledgement that evil, whatever its= =20 primal source, resides, like a virus in its niche, in the human self. There= =20 is no ridding the world of evil for the simple fact that, shy of history's= =20 end, there is no ridding the self of it. But there's the problem with President Bush. It is not the moral immaturity= =20 of the texts he reads. Like his callow statement in the National Cathedral,= =20 they are written by someone else. When the president speaks, unscripted,=20 from his own moral center, what shows itself is a bottomless void. To address concerns about the savage violence engulfing ''postwar'' Iraq=20 with a cocksure ''Bring `em on!'' as he did last week, is to display an=20 absence of imagination shocking in a man of such authority. It showed a=20 lack of capacity to identify either with enraged Iraqis who must rise to=20 such a taunt or with young GIs who must now answer for it. Even in=20 relationship to his own soldiers, there is nothing at the core of this man= =20 but visceral meanness. No human being with a minimal self-knowledge could speak of evil as he=20 does, but there is no self-knowledge without a self. Even this short=20 ''distance of history'' shows George W. Bush to be, in that sense, the=20 selfless president, which is not a compliment. It's a warning. James Carroll's column appears regularly in the Globe. This story ran on page A19 of the Boston Globe on 7/8/2003. =A9 Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: orange Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 >From: ryan fitzpatrick >Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > >orange rhymes with door hinge > >ryan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:04:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: orange Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed knock knock who's there? orange orange who? orange ya glad to see me? (learned in third grade in Vermont as Sylvester Pollet notes, "orange"was pronounced "arnge") david baptiste >From: sylvester pollet >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: orange >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 >>From: ryan fitzpatrick >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I >> >>orange rhymes with door hinge >> >>ryan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:46:36 -0700 Reply-To: jvcervantes@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Cervantes Subject: a grass roots statement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In just a while, I'm heading to the mall to a t-shirt shop to have one or two t-shirts printed up that say, quite simply: I'm Not Evil You're Not Evil No matter who your candidate is, this message has to be out there. We have to cut the legs out from under the fear-mongering. I urge you to go have a similar t-shirt printed up. - Jim ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:42:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Abusive step-father considers the issue closed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bush considers Iraq uranium issue closed Not a new idea, obviously, but this seems so obviously the same psychodynamically as an abusive step-father (Bush) forcibly married (his Supreme Court backers, or other tribal heads, make the call on his election/marriage) to unempowered wife ("feminine"/humanistic side of U.S. society) and responds to further abuse (that's obvious) and request to discuss feelings/objections (anti-Bush sentiment) with traditional dominator (http://prometheus.educ.ncat.edu/users/smithtg/guilford/students/applefield/ eisler.html ) male discounting of feelings and patriarchical "control" ("Shutup! The case is closed. I do not want to hear anything more about it. I'll say what is right and wrong and what is allowed, and I will not permit anymore complaints about my actions"). I know... This is extremely obvious... Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:19:41 -0700 Reply-To: antrobin@clipper.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anthony Robinson Subject: Re: orange In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here in the west, we say 'OR-ANGE' ('or' not 'are') Tony --- David Chirot wrote: > knock knock > who's there? > orange > orange who? > orange ya glad to see me? > > (learned in third grade in Vermont > as Sylvester Pollet notes, > "orange"was pronounced "arnge") > > david baptiste > > >From: sylvester pollet > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: orange > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the > first syllable is > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest > processor wrote: > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > >> > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > >> > >>ryan > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:30:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: orangerie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain on reading today's exchange I found the phrase "Orange A Tang" in my head, and have been trying to think of a rain forest/NASA joke to which it could be a potential punch line in what part of the country is "hinge" pronounced in such a way as to rhyme "door hinge" with "orange" ????? the "or" "are" distinction I learned forcibly from laughing junior high school kids when I moved from Denver to D.C. -- they also thought it hilarious that I pronounced "Aunt" as "ant" -- y'all know Sorrentino's orange poems? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "War feels to me an oblique place." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:34:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: ron's poem MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Charles A, I was "fairer" than perhaps I should have been, or let's say than I originally was, before taking stuff out. Trying to emphasize how both Lowell and Silliman perform, in very different ways, "social evaluations," I see now thanks to you that I've psychologically "tainted" the Silliman with the Lowell. The tension in Silliman is always _around_ value, yet the readers' discussion will be always concretely grounded in the "sincerity & objectification" of the image-based denotative sentences/stanzas. Whereas in the Lowell poem, like Brian says, the value judgments are symbolically explicit (even though I missed it on the word "fairy"!) and arguably motivate the poem's unfolding (in Silliman, this is reversed: it is the poem's form motivating any value judgments). Were I to be less fair, all these shadings of completely different traditions would work their way back in... Nevertheless, I do prefer reading a text heavily, rather than lightly, even if it means regretting (as I often do) mistakes and oversights (e.g. I don't focus on Non's form of the sentences/stanzas at all, for instance, as I did in that earlier Lowell post: it's not quite, or "simply," or "in its nature," that Non follows an "old" form of "new" sentence, it's that form is not understood in the sense of _programmatic_ device, constraints of Elizabethan sonnet, say [which is not to say there is no form in the work!]; and so this is a huge difference from Lowell, for whom there is a sense of form as program, and I believe the huge unstated reason why Brian protests against Non). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:14:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: New Boog City poetry editor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, We here at Boog City are proud to announce that we have a new poetry editor, Jim Behrle. Join us in welcoming him onboard. as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:02:28 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: families/poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Matt, Arielle, Stephen, etc. I was kidding, as I don't think that family studies is in any way waiting in the wings to sweep women's or men's or queer studies back off the stage. But if we think ecologically, it ought to. Also, if we are really trying to help poor people, we have to think about why they're poor. Most poor people are poor because their families have exploded. Stress, pressure, desire for the neighbor, whatever, all these things can blow a family up. What keeps a family together? This is bordering on kitsch, I realize that. Looking over the drug-store counter at Norman Rockwell turf, but what the hell -- all the sociological studies show that family is still important and there is no other real crucible of caring in this country at all, and isn't going to be anything that replaces it in the next century, insofar as I'm aware. But then I'm one of the few poets or academics I know who likes his family. Most hate them, it seems to me. For me, life wouldn't function without one. But to put a nicer spin on this, just to think ecologically would be good, no? People with families that they like have a source of meaning and strength and financial support that those without do not. If this is the maker or breaker of people, we ought to think more about them. A lot of poetry celebrates random desire. I can't think of much contemporary poetry that celebrates or even discusses families except in the most vicious way (Sylvia Plath on her dad, for example). Although I have to say to Arielle -- I think you're right -- women still bear the brunt of child-bearing (I don't know of any man who has carried a child for nine months), and then the nursing, the staying at home, the caesura in the career, etc. etc. We should ask Alice Notley and the Berrigans generally. Also, I do think there is a place for mother/children poetry, and wouldn't want to say that I need to have a dad in that anthology just for some kind of reverse affirmative action reasons. I'm just noodling about with the idea. But then, too, don't forget that I'm a Lutheran and all you've heard from Garrison Keillor is right. We do like green jello, and holiday dinners with extended families. So perhaps it's just my values, ok, and the rest is special pleading. Beats me. -- Kirby Olson > Hi Kirby, > > Are you being ironic with your remark about a "change to "family studies"? > You've got to be kidding! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:42:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Today, seen from 73 years ago Comments: cc: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK In-Reply-To: <3F106954.BDAF7496@delhi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In 1939 the German poet Erich K=E4stner wrote the following poem (very=20= hastily translated into English by me just before rushing out to catch=20= Ncole Peyrafitte doing a concert of French songs for Bastille Day=20 celebration in the local frog restaurant). It is not a great poem by=20 any stretch of the imagination, but has some newsworthiness: it=20 predicts the end of the world for today, 12 july 2003. Enjoy, if that's=20= the word. I'm off to start bastille day celebration (also my birthday)=20= 2 days early... Pierre Erich K=E4stner THE LAST CHAPTER On 12 July of the year 2003 the following news flash circled the earth: a bomber squadron of the Air Police will exterminate the whole of humanity. The World Government, it was reported, had concluded that its plan to create universal peace could not be realized in any other way than by poisoning all those concerned. To try to escape, it was said, was pointless. Not one soul could be allowed to survive. The new poison gas could reach every hiding place. There was no need even to take one=92s own life. On 13 July a thousand planes left Boston laden with gas and bacilli and circling the globe they committed the murder ordered by the World Government. The humans crawled whining under their beds, ran to hide in their cellars and in the woods. The poison hung yellow like clouds above the cities. Millions of corpses lay strewn on the asphalt. Everyone thought it possible to somehow escape death. Nobody escaped death, and the world became empty. The poison was everywhere, tiptoeing silently all over. It ran along the deserts. It swam across the seas. The humans lay there like rotting sheaves. Others hung like dolls from windows. The animals in the zoo screamed horribly before they died. And slowly the great blast-furnaces went out. Steamboats tottered on the oceans, laden with their dead. And neither weeping nor laughter was there in the world. The planes erred, with a thousand dead pilots, below the heavens and fell burning into the fields. Now humanity has finally achieved what it wanted, though the method was not markedly humane. The earth was finally still and content and totally pacified it rolled along its well-known elliptic orbit. from Erich K=E4stner: =84Gesammelte Schriften=93 Band 1: Gedichte. =20 B=FCchergilde Gutenberg, Frankfurt am Main 1958. S. 216 (Aus dem=20 Gedichtband =84Ein Mann gibt Auskunft=93, erschienen zuerst 1930.) ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:04:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: How language stunts creativity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While inappropriately titled in the usual media way this series http://www.nationalpost.com/national/story.html?id=C37BFDB8-575C-4551-9BAF-5 9175119F4A8 promises to at least lead to references on neuropoetry as a different spin might indicate how language and art could mend the brain? tom bell Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:01:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: question about motherhood book In-Reply-To: <20030712001901.99416.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "The Grand Permission: New Writings on Poetics and Motherhood, from Wesleyan" Look I am sure there are many fine essays in this book, etc. I am objecting to the title. I frankly cannot imagine too many of our mother/ poets, and their partner father/poets and/or just fathers as putting the mother/poet on a pedestal identified here as "The Grand Permission." Ouch and again Ouch. I think it's totally contrary to at least my experience, and I suspect it the case of many, if not most, at least anyone in a contemporary relationship in which the balance of gender and/or parenting power (and permission and time to write) is continually negotiated - and it ain't easy - no matter the gender of the couples etc., etc. At least, I assume this is familiar territory ! So I see this title as conservative that reconfirms a stereotype best instantly buried. I suspect my reaction to this title would be similar to waking up as an involved father and finding that instead of the Parent & Teachers Associations (PTA), the organization was suddenly renamed as the Mothers & Teachers Association (MTA). (Though rightfully or "left-fully" PTA's ought to be called PTCA's (Parent, Teachers and Children's Associations!). God knows - literally - under Bush, faith-based conservative evangelicals would prefer MTA's to PTA's. And this is not to say institutional reality on the ground has progressively changed that much, making the struggle still hard for much permission, genders notwithstanding. Traditional family archetypes are ages old and real tough to crack. And families - including poet couples break up or almost do over these contested power issues all the time. And yes, as a parent writer of either gender, living in this changing/challenging territory inevitably provokes writing in which these issues may or may not be a transparent thread - but there if you look, and if not, provision of the opportunity to take on the frontier and write your own! Of which I - among many others - have implicitly done a lot! Stephen Vincent My own children I have written about continuously as a part of the interweave of my daily life and coping with the father issue, partners, etc. But to make children an imperative part of ones writing is no imperative on 7/11/03 5:19 PM, Arielle Greenberg at ariellecg@YAHOO.COM wrote: > Not sure how a book about poet/mothers misses the role > of the father--it isn't a book about poet/fathers. I > mean, I'm really interested in and invested in all > sorts of parenting/caregiving relationships, but that > doesn't preclude the need (for me, at least) for a > book in which the particular roles/problems/joys of > being a poet and a woman and a mother are discussed. > > Remember that only now, only in my generation (of > young poets born in the 60s and later), is there even > an existing generation of more than a handful of women > who are both poets and mothers to whom we can look for > guidance, inspiration, etc., and simply acknowledging > this fact seems an important role of such a book: here > are these very well-established and respected women > poets who are also raising children. And my > understanding is that poets or no, women still do the > vast majority of the child-rearing in this country, > and even in heterosexual homes where the child-rearing > is "split" between the man and the woman (ie, where > both parents work full-time and parent full-time), the > women still end up spending more time with the kids > than the man does (this according to Naomi Wolf's book > on Motherhood as well as what I know from friends). > This is not to claim that there aren't men who are > taking on the majority of child-rearing, or that there > aren't many other kinds of families out there, but > that a book on what it means to be both a working poet > > and a mother is certainly still very relevant and > relatively unexplored. > > Certainly a book on male poets who are hard at work > raising children could also be very compelling. But I > wonder (honestly, not rhetorically) if there are many > men with established poetry careers who are also doing > half or more of the work of raising the children in > their homes? I hope if not now, there will be soon, > and then a book on the subject will be very important. > > Arielle > > > > --- Stephen Vincent wrote: >> Not to take away from the particularity of the >> relationship of mother, >> child(ren) and the making of poetry, my apprehension >> here is that the title >> & configuration continue to reaffirm an archetype >> that - at least for some >> of us - is retro. In light of the radical >> reconfigurations of family over >> the last three decades, it is a title that misses >> the consideration of the >> father as often a fully responsible member of >> however parent(s) define and >> re-define the equations of parenting, work and the >> imagination. And, >> consequently, within these new family frames, the >> title ends up seeming to >> exclude the rich - and often hotly contested - >> territory in which creative >> work is impacted by these new configurations of >> mothers, fathers, children >> and the permissions of the muse(s). >> >> It's a title that many fully participant fathers may >> find dismissive and >> possibly hurtful. And mothers - if I may speculate - >> may find anachronistic >> and limiting. On the other hand, not having reading >> it yet, it could be full >> of great essays. Certainly it is good at all to >> have a book that explores >> the relationship of parenting and the position poets >> within its demands. >> >> >> I suspect others - privately or publicly - will >> have much to say on this. >> >> Stephen Vincent >> >> on 7/11/03 8:29 AM, Arielle Greenberg at >> ariellecg@YAHOO.COM wrote: >> >>> I haven't read it yet, Susan (the book she's >> talking >>> about is The Grand Permission: New Writings on >> Poetics >>> and Motherhood, from Wesleyan) but you can find >> out >>> more about it at >>> >> > http://www.dartmouth.edu/acad-inst/upne/0-8195-6644-6.html. >>> >>> I would certainly hope it has essays on >> "nonstandard" >>> motherhoods, but I'm not sure... >>> >>> Best of luck with your course--what an important >>> topic! >>> Arielle >>> >>> __________________________________ >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >>> http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:10:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: families/poetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3F106954.BDAF7496@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Kirby: Don't believe everything you read. Families that are economically threatened to begin with tend to become moreso if suddenly there's one breadwinner instead of two, but the divorces of all those hollywood types didn't bring down malnutrition upon their children. As to emotional health, there's no real concensus. First, since family has always meant different things in different populations, it's difficult to generalize. The nuclear family is a very recent invention (largely, I suspect, of the real estate developers who gave us the one and two bedroom apartment), and it hasn't taken over in all circumstances. The extended families of West Indians (in the US as well as in the islands), for instance, in which male parental figures may be somewhat transitory, tend to do a hell of a good job at nurturing. Among the Hopi, perhaps the oldest coherent cultural unit in the US, divorce has always been frequent, a man coming home and finding his tools and clothing outside the door (women own all real property). Even whole neighborhoods in some ethnic groups (Hillary's "village") function as families, the children being everyone's concern. But even the studies that purport to show that the kids of middle class anglo nuclear families that split up have a harder time as grownups than those from intact nuclear families are controversial, because they often lack control groups and almost always lack adequate control groups (as to size and the existence of other variables). By the way, I'm another of those guys who made significant sacrifices (and well worth it) to care for a child. Joan went to law school while I worked at a series of part time jobs so that I could be at home with Carlos. As to my career as poet the long hiatus between books and my prolonged disappearance from the haunts of poets were also because my attention was focused elsewhere. In these matters it's very hard to know from the outside what the balance is. Years ago I went out with a young Lutheran psychiatrist who liked to grab my genitals during church services--the transgression and my discomfort got her off. Garrison Keilor, who if I remember correctly wasn't raised Lutheran, hasn't got around to talking about her yet. Mark At 04:02 PM 7/12/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: >Matt, Arielle, Stephen, etc. > >I was kidding, as I don't think that family studies is in any way waiting >in the >wings to sweep women's or men's or queer studies back off the stage. But >if we >think ecologically, it ought to. Also, if we are really trying to help poor >people, we have to think about why they're poor. Most poor people are poor >because their families have exploded. Stress, pressure, desire for the >neighbor, whatever, all these things can blow a family up. What keeps a >family >together? This is bordering on kitsch, I realize that. Looking over the >drug-store counter at Norman Rockwell turf, but what the hell -- all the >sociological studies show that family is still important and there is no other >real crucible of caring in this country at all, and isn't going to be anything >that replaces it in the next century, insofar as I'm aware. But then I'm >one of >the few poets or academics I know who likes his family. Most hate them, it >seems to me. For me, life wouldn't function without one. > >But to put a nicer spin on this, just to think ecologically would be good, no? >People with families that they like have a source of meaning and strength and >financial support that those without do not. If this is the maker or >breaker of >people, we ought to think more about them. A lot of poetry celebrates random >desire. I can't think of much contemporary poetry that celebrates or even >discusses families except in the most vicious way (Sylvia Plath on her >dad, for >example). > >Although I have to say to Arielle -- I think you're right -- women still bear >the brunt of child-bearing (I don't know of any man who has carried a >child for >nine months), and then the nursing, the staying at home, the caesura in the >career, etc. etc. We should ask Alice Notley and the Berrigans generally. >Also, I do think there is a place for mother/children poetry, and wouldn't >want >to say that I need to have a dad in that anthology just for some kind of >reverse >affirmative action reasons. I'm just noodling about with the idea. But then, >too, don't forget that I'm a Lutheran and all you've heard from Garrison >Keillor >is right. We do like green jello, and holiday dinners with extended families. >So perhaps it's just my values, ok, and the rest is special >pleading. Beats me. > >-- Kirby Olson > > > Hi Kirby, > > > > Are you being ironic with your remark about a "change to "family studies"? > > You've got to be kidding! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:19:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Today, seen from 73 years ago Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In 1930 the German poet Erich K=E4stner wrote the following poem (very=20= hastily translated into English by me just before rushing out to catch=20= Nicole Peyrafitte doing a concert of French songs for Bastille Day=20 celebrations in the local frog restaurant). It is not a great poem by any stretch of the imagination, but = has=20 some, well, newsworthiness: it predicts the end of the world for today,=20= 12 july 2003. Enjoy, if that's the word. I'm off to start bastille day=20= celebration (also my birthday) 2 days early... Pierre Erich K=E4stner THE LAST CHAPTER On 12 July of the year 2003 the following news flash circled the earth: a bomber squadron of the Air Police will exterminate the whole of humanity. The World Government, it was reported, had concluded that its plan to create universal peace could not be realized in any other way than by poisoning all those concerned. To try to escape, it was said, was pointless. Not one soul could be allowed to survive. The new poison gas could reach every hiding place. There was no need even to take one=92s own life. On 13 July a thousand planes left Boston laden with gas and bacilli and circling the globe they committed the murder ordered by the World Government. The humans crawled whining under their beds, ran to hide in their cellars and in the woods. The poison hung yellow like clouds above the cities. Millions of corpses lay strewn on the asphalt. Everyone thought it possible to somehow escape death. Nobody escaped death, and the world became empty. The poison was everywhere, tiptoeing silently all over. It ran along the deserts. It swam across the seas. The humans lay there like rotting sheaves. Others hung like dolls from windows. The animals in the zoo screamed horribly before they died. And slowly the great blast-furnaces went out. Steamboats tottered on the oceans, laden with their dead. And neither weeping nor laughter was there in the world. The planes erred, with a thousand dead pilots, below the heavens and fell burning into the fields. Now humanity has finally achieved what it wanted, though the method was not markedly humane. The earth was finally still and content and totally pacified it rolled along its well-known elliptic orbit. from Erich K=E4stner: =84Gesammelte Schriften=93 Band 1: Gedichte. =20 B=FCchergilde Gutenberg, Frankfurt am Main 1958. S. 216 (Aus dem=20 Gedichtband =84Ein Mann gibt Auskunft=93, erschienen zuerst 1930.) ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:25:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: mother /poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Forgive me, but what makes the category of poet any different than worker when it comes to women and mothering? Do you really think poets are so special that they have more refined experiences than other working women who have children? And yes, there are some experiences of parenting that are unique to mothers, but your generation doesn't have some exclusive and unique perspective. you just think you do. There have always been creative women who worked and raised children, frequently alone. They just didn't get famous. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:43:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: orangerie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALDON---Are you coming west this summer/? You are bothh welcome here if you can fit a visit in. Love, David oooOouo---Original Message----- From: ALDON L NIELSEN To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, July 12, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: orangerie >on reading today's exchange I found the phrase "Orange A Tang" in my head, and >have been trying to think of a rain forest/NASA joke to which it could be a >potential punch line > >in what part of the country is "hinge" pronounced in such a way as to rhyme >"door hinge" with "orange" ????? the "or" "are" distinction I learned forcibly >from laughing junior high school kids when I moved from Denver to D.C. -- they >also thought it hilarious that I pronounced "Aunt" as "ant" -- > >y'all know Sorrentino's orange poems? ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "War feels to me an oblique place." > --Emily Dickinson > > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: families/poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I seem to be on the kitsch thread today. I remember reading once that Grandma Moses, the amazing painter, didn't start her artistic career until she was 88 because before that she was so busy with kids, grandkids, etc. It was only at 88 that she got free of it all. I never really write about my family, unless I do it in a closed door session. I prefer to write about things like street lamps and door knobs and ants. There are emotional traps in writing about the family -- black holes where you can disappear into the kitsch. The emotions are so big you can't really concentrate on them. And those people who do write a lot about families -- like John Irving or Garrison Keillor -- seem to disappear into the black holes of kitsch really frequently. There's Dylan Thomas' poem to his dying dad. But how about just dinner table poems? Do those exist? Maybe it's not a big enough event -- like the extinction of the world by the German poet that Pierre has posted. That's a poem-sized event, put off into the future far enough that it could be got into perspective. Most Lutheran poetry is kitsch. It reminds me of the little girls with big eyes in black velvet paintings. Even pictures of Christ often fall into that category. What is kitsch anyways? Kundera defined it as an art that tries to hide the shitty side of things. This is in the Unbearable Lightness. But I don't remember that he ever risks writing about delicate feelings unless they are heavily charged with eroticism. He's got that modernist playboy thing down. Is it possible to write about families well? I can't think of anybody who's ever done it. Me, I'm sticking with doorknobs and street lamps. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:30:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: orangerie In-Reply-To: <200307121730.NAA09087@webmail11.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed spent a year in oxford MS and know some there who'd pronounce "hinge" either "hee-anj" or sometimes "hee-inj" or even "hay-ahnj" At 01:30 PM 7/12/2003 -0400, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >in what part of the country is "hinge" pronounced in such a way as to rhyme >"door hinge" with "orange" ????? the "or" "are" distinction I learned >forcibly >from laughing junior high school kids when I moved from Denver to D.C. -- >they >also thought it hilarious that I pronounced "Aunt" as "ant" -- > >y'all know Sorrentino's orange poems? ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "War feels to me an oblique place." > --Emily Dickinson > > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 01:24:05 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Scribble time. Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was broken, like my grandfather's fob-watch, that I took apart, after so many hands, and could not restore. Then again I was just seven, but now IT was powdering into crumbs of coherence, into strained webs of collapse. Generations persist, and fall. Hugh Masakela says community is what being lost, agree does me, against the noise of stock-markets, 747's taking off, property guzzling at percentage, the bland lines of power, the be-with-us or against-us, nosing above the horizon on every happening day. Somewhere something ticked. Tocked. Conscience it was, surviving like a clock. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:10:26 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Maldives I/hors d'oeuvres I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a thought that feels so red and white fun is a sweetheart of an odor the way time and money are lovers the way a bunch of bananas dangles the Maldives the ardor wonder of the night the monkey fading from your back --- the fascicles the corpuscles exposed muscles the way wet hair tussles the entrails and tails the boar humps a horse the hors d'oeuvres the tendrils there's a hole blown in your back ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:53:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Today, seen from 73 years ago In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit vive le france e vive le liberte > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Pierre Joris > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 4:42 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Today, seen from 73 years ago > > > In 1939 the German poet Erich Kästner wrote the following poem (very > hastily translated into English by me just before rushing out to catch > Ncole Peyrafitte doing a concert of French songs for Bastille Day > celebration in the local frog restaurant). It is not a great poem by > any stretch of the imagination, but has some newsworthiness: it > predicts the end of the world for today, 12 july 2003. Enjoy, if that's > the word. I'm off to start bastille day celebration (also my birthday) > 2 days early... Pierre > > Erich Kästner > > THE LAST CHAPTER > > On 12 July of the year 2003 > the following news flash circled the earth: > a bomber squadron of the Air Police > will exterminate the whole of humanity. > > The World Government, it was reported, had concluded > that its plan to create universal peace > could not be realized in any other way > than by poisoning all those concerned. > > To try to escape, it was said, was pointless. > Not one soul could be allowed to survive. > The new poison gas could reach every hiding place. > There was no need even to take one’s own life. > > On 13 July a thousand planes left Boston > laden with gas and bacilli and circling > the globe they committed the murder > ordered by the World Government. > > The humans crawled whining under their beds, > ran to hide in their cellars and in the woods. > The poison hung yellow like clouds above the cities. > Millions of corpses lay strewn on the asphalt. > > Everyone thought it possible to somehow escape death. > Nobody escaped death, and the world became empty. > The poison was everywhere, tiptoeing silently all over. > It ran along the deserts. It swam across the seas. > > The humans lay there like rotting sheaves. > Others hung like dolls from windows. > The animals in the zoo screamed horribly before they died. > And slowly the great blast-furnaces went out. > > Steamboats tottered on the oceans, laden with their dead. > And neither weeping nor laughter was there in the world. > The planes erred, with a thousand dead pilots, > below the heavens and fell burning into the fields. > > Now humanity has finally achieved what it wanted, > though the method was not markedly humane. > The earth was finally still and content and totally > pacified it rolled along its well-known elliptic orbit. > > from Erich Kästner: „Gesammelte Schriften“ Band 1: Gedichte. > Büchergilde Gutenberg, Frankfurt am Main 1958. S. 216 (Aus dem > Gedichtband „Ein Mann gibt Auskunft“, erschienen zuerst 1930.) > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing > is a crime. > Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. > h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this > Somewhere Else. > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 85 > -- Thomas Bernhard > email: joris@albany.edu > http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ > ____________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:02:08 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ryan fitzpatrick Subject: Re: orange Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the people i've met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. interesting to note those differences in dialect though ryan >From: sylvester pollet >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: orange >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 >>From: ryan fitzpatrick >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I >> >>orange rhymes with door hinge >> >>ryan _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 02:32:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: abyss and vermeer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII At http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ - abyss.exe - abyss vermeer jpg series - phenomenology of tradition - - alan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:51:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crag Hill Subject: Ace of Clubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ace of Clubs We have made peace possible? Not in our lifetimes, by George "or whether to hang tight to the supple way a newborn flipper can move in the sand, grabbing and stroking, knuckles working under the shiny dark skin" "old bony man came dragging by again, washing his hands of the whole deal. Nobody paid us much mind at first. The aides went off to the Nurse's Station, leaving us standing in the day" It was beginning to look like the American public was never going to notice. They have done a tsunami job keeping Americans from paying attention about the absolutely moribund manufacturing sector, about the decline in employment (except in the government, where jobs are blossoming like dogwoods) Hard to pin down the life of time, without a heart beat. If I had a medal, if I had a metal plate screwed to my synapses, if international conflict transformed consciousness, I'd enlist now, I'd end. Unscheduled, unrepentant, the train formed its own tracks "breached but declined to elaborate. the information could have been acquired. There were a number of identity theft cases being investigated where the common denominator appeared to be that they all were blood donors. dispatchers couldn't trace the call and listened helplessly while he begged for his life" The answer in the stitching, these mountains are waiting, child of the wind. They're catching up to him, new crop of reality, invulnerability disappeared. Is there a safer place to put the gas? I'm too busy watching smoke come out of every orifice in your head, buses still running in Baghdad ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 03:12:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in Buffalo we pronounce orange : moww-anngg-hen, or sometimes in winter or the odd festival week it is pronounced as : kn-oqu-elante; but that is getting to be old hat. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "ryan fitzpatrick" To: Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:02 AM Subject: Re: orange > maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the people i've > met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. > > interesting to note those differences in dialect though > > ryan > > > >From: sylvester pollet > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: orange > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > >> > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > >> > >>ryan > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 01:08:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Monoclonal Prolific Method #0001 - #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Monoclonal Prolific Method #0001 directly above us The novice entered: directly above us by the constant directly above us manifold." The novice entered: eyes bandaged, and a it..God gives wisdom eyes bandaged, and a always made an eyes bandaged, and a very fine. The bells it..God gives wisdom Jew on each side; Amongst other Jew on each side; increase . 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Feed your neck on the other. shelter which the one; and was limping The water is may require the The water is very much admired as The water is Tierra del Fuego are may require the beautiful-a perfect they placed a beautiful-a perfect and the corps beautiful-a perfect "I'm not bothered--" they placed a mirror, with long he is told to bring mirror, with long air, on the hill, mirror, with long spirit receives a he is told to bring in Mexico?-what its mosquito-planted -mistress in Mexico?-what its appear sufficient. in Mexico?-what its more mosquito-planted -mistress present condition? . enacting so-called present condition? . churches, lakes, and present condition? . drown us; where enacting so-called . . black as Hell," and - . . Constancia Mejicana" . . the Queen of Heaven! black as Hell," and - Emboldened by the the inn, which, -we should not be Emboldened by the family in his dead Emboldened by the in Heaven, the inn, which, -we should not be Monoclonal Prolific Method #0003 which the water jars prayers which the water jars gold was imbued in which the water jars being healthy, prayers are kept. By six o'clock this are kept. Talent-Annual-Complim are kept. energy, without By six o'clock this handsomest women in chair the League's handsomest women in It was picturesque handsomest women in the Señora chair the League's Madrid are said to "Look out, Tex! Madrid are said to Salt Lake dug-outs Madrid are said to of the records "Look out, Tex! be those born out of The head be those born out of small lake, and one be those born out of view of being The head it. that mentioned by M. it. woman's skirt. This it. and in most cases that mentioned by M. though we had their hats. though we had Hermanita. Which way though we had George Houser, their hats. learned it as a other. I shall learned it as a brutes, learned it as a California's Indian other. I shall parrot might learn for the nonce the parrot might learn pale in the beams of parrot might learn starting, and for the nonce the it; nor lightly, as of our it; nor lightly, as always in demand, it; nor lightly, as mules stop to rest, of our centred on Central object is primitive Malayan comes in every primitive Malayan cursed, into primitive Malayan successful;-saw a comes in every stock, namely, from follows: stock, namely, from States. The stock, namely, from contact with follows: august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 01:54:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Positron Emissions From Echogenetic Terrain #0001 - #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Positron Emissions From Echogenetic Terrain #0001 cavern of being obsessive and cavern of all paltry ornament, cavern of where being obsessive and Cucuhuamilpa. poets as a fruitful Cucuhuamilpa. that much vice and Cucuhuamilpa. poets as a fruitful successful;-saw a noise." successful;-saw a successful;-saw a made up his mind to noise." flight of rose- drinks are of flight of rose- the blanket on her flight of rose- whether it was used drinks are of coloured flamingoes, what biological coloured flamingoes, the loads. coloured flamingoes, and the names handed what biological who sailed high Court in February, , who sailed high one his neighbor and who sailed high cheeks; but he is Court in February, , was cloudy and calm), Venice on the second was cloudy and calm), He was a nationmaker, was cloudy and calm), Bishop a painted Venice on the second as it might be some consist of piles of as it might be some host which appeared as it might be some and mentioned about consist of piles of mile in the sea, a they can be properly mile in the sea, a where they were mile in the sea, a and it led to they can be properly great and that of the great that the fate great forty-day workshops and that of the as we may justly three years indication of the as we may justly "Yes, thank you, my gifts' with all "Yes, thank you, my which silently "Yes, thank you, my cook supper. She gifts' with all claim has turned out head, and claim has turned out pray God for me that claim has turned out Riviere mentions a head, and to be a rich one. some philosophical to be a rich one. before the to be a rich one. toward his uncle, some philosophical What will in Thee before the What will The first of May What will politics both in his in Thee before the on horseback; the proprietress, this sleeping-accomodation on horseback; the two cases. I changed -pool blankets. It seemed two cases. I changed -pool taken their places two cases. I changed -pool Article III of the blankets. It seemed 3 years of age is the most centrally 3 years of age is spring where the 3 years of age is determination that -and plead His the most centrally plump and chubby; it was now hopeless. plump and chubby; blankets and lined plump and chubby; it was now hopeless. his front is traveled to Gmunden, his front is Yoga. 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At Jussieu said, at a music came fainter the Sirt. music came fainter drill for music came fainter the body. the Sirt. upon the ear, and device, Floats in upon the ear, and as if their fitting upon the ear, and minor details may device, Floats in the beating of drums of the TERREMARES. the beating of drums and measures the beating of drums and sallow. of the TERREMARES. and the sign of the cross, -conditioning and the presentation. While and the a woman of much sign of the cross, -conditioning he remarked in his him into a book of he remarked in his gravel. The level he remarked in his of Poland, many him into a book of Inaugural Address: Inaugural Address: if there be no Bank Inaugural Address: shall have "Continue to execute hapless parents." "Continue to execute State," an "Continue to execute the low entry of hapless parents." all the of a similar kind all the woman. The reason all the murder-another was of a similar kind This morning General This morning General "Yes, thank you, my This morning General hundred more; which - sent a few lines military members. - sent a few lines laughed) and there - sent a few lines buried in a military members. august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:56:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't throw those words out, Geoff. Poets have a better chance of rhyming them than orange. By the way, why hasn't anybody mentioned "Then Blue Silk," which is the rest of title tile of Mingus's "Orange was the color of her dress"? Orange was the color of her dress, then blue silk But all the colors changed when I spilled a glass of milk on it. Definitely much easier for rhyming. Vernon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Gatza" To: Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 3:12 AM Subject: Re: orange > Here in Buffalo we pronounce orange : moww-anngg-hen, or sometimes in winter > or the odd festival week it is pronounced as : kn-oqu-elante; but that is > getting to be old hat. > > Best, Geoffrey > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ryan fitzpatrick" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: orange > > > > maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the people i've > > met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. > > > > interesting to note those differences in dialect though > > > > ryan > > > > > > >From: sylvester pollet > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: orange > > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is > > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > > >> > > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > > >> > > >>ryan > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:59:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's pronounced "oringe" in New England. Vernon ----- Original Message ----- From: "ryan fitzpatrick" To: Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:02 AM Subject: Re: orange > maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the people i've > met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. > > interesting to note those differences in dialect though > > ryan > > > >From: sylvester pollet > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: orange > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > >> > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > >> > >>ryan > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:46:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: orange In-Reply-To: <06f301c34936$486954b0$8568f30c@S0027338986> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit orng in Chicago > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Vernon Frazer > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 7:00 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: orange > > > It's pronounced "oringe" in New England. > > Vernon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ryan fitzpatrick" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: orange > > > > maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the > people i've > > met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. > > > > interesting to note those differences in dialect though > > > > ryan > > > > > > >From: sylvester pollet > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: orange > > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is > > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > > >> > > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > > >> > > >>ryan > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:45:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: help w/readings....radio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed All, Wondering if anyone would be willing to help me out with some readings. I'll be in San Diego towards the end of August and reading in San Francisco around the 24th...does anyone have any connections w/ radio stations in San Diego? or for that matter anywhere else?( I live in Western MA, but would be willing to make some sort trips) I ask because I've got a book coming out in August called The Frequencies, which uses FM radio frequencies as a sort of organizing principle, and I'd love to read from it over the air... (please b/c: noaheligordon@hotmail.com) some samples are here: http://www.lapetitezine.org/NoahEliGordon.htm http://www.castagraf.com/issue4/gordon.swf http://www.canwehaveourballback.com/wmassgordon.htm http://www.tougherdisguises.com/excerpts.html#frequencies thanks for any help/info... noah _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:37:53 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Hamilton-Emery Subject: Salt Publishing: New titles for July 2003 Comments: To: info@saltpublishing.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit S A L T P U B L I S H I N G New books for July 2003 NORTH AMERICA CATH DALY "DaDaDa" Salt Modern Poets 1876857951 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857951.htm AARON MCCOLLOUGH "Double Venus" Salt Modern Poets 1844710033 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710033.htm ETHAN PAQUIN "Accumulus" Salt Modern Poets 1844710157 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710157.htm EUROPE ANDREW DUNCAN "The Failure of Conservatism in Modern British Poetry" Salt Studies in Contemporary Poetry 1876857579 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sscp/1876857579.htm PETER MIDDLETON "Aftermath" Salt Modern Poets 1876857633 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857633.htm JOHN WILKINSON "Contrivances" Salt Modern Poets 1876857609 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857609.htm AUSTRALASIA MIKE BRENNAN "The Imageless World" Salt Modern Poets 184471005X http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/184471005X.htm DANIEL KEENE "Terminus and Other Plays" Salt Modern Drama 1876857188 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smd/1876857188.htm CATH KENNEALY "All Day, All Night" Salt Modern Poets 1876857099 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857099.htm JOHN KINSELLA (Ed.) "Salt Volume 17 Issue 1" Salt International Journal of Poetry and Poetics 1844710068 http://www.saltpublishing.com/journals/1844710068.htm JOHN KINSELLA & TRACY RYAN "Conspiracies" Salt Modern Fiction 1844710181 http://www.saltpublishing.com/smf/1844710181.htm MARK PIRIE "Gallery: A Selection" Salt Modern Poets 1876857242 http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857242.htm If you wish to be removed from future titles announcements, please reply to this email with remove in the subject line. Salt Publishing http://www.saltpublishing.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:36:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: New Boog City poetry editor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations! What a fine catch! Cheers, Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@msn.com And the corpse sat up in its grave and said: "When I turn to ashes, you will see me smile! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Hi all, > > We here at Boog City are proud to announce that we have a new poetry editor, > Jim Behrle. > > Join us in welcoming him onboard. > > as ever, > David > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:58:25 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: families/poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anybody know when the idea of the family first started? You know, mom, pop and a few kids? Is this a recent invention, as Mark Weiss says? It's there in Louisa May Alcott -- which is nineteenth century. Let's see, going back -- it appears to be there in Shakespeare -- in Titus Andronicus, for instance, or in Hamlet, or in King Lear. It seems already to be pretty strong in Homer -- Odysseus, Penelope, and Telemachus. And it's outraged by Agamemnon. All those who go against the family appear to die as early as that -- the wife-stealers, and all the others. I think in Indian literature it's also very strong, especially more recently. It's NOT there in a lot of lyric poetry from Baudelaire at least forwards. But in longer stories, and plays, it seems to be there. This is just off the top of my head. Has anybody worked on this? The whole idea of Jane Austen seems to be to try to find a suitable person to start a family with. Mark, could you say more about Hopi practices? How are the Hopi doing these days, by the way? -- Kirby Olson Mark Weiss wrote: > Kirby: Don't believe everything you read. Families that are economically > threatened to begin with tend to become moreso if suddenly there's one > breadwinner instead of two, but the divorces of all those hollywood types > didn't bring down malnutrition upon their children. > > As to emotional health, there's no real concensus. First, since family has > always meant different things in different populations, it's difficult to > generalize. The nuclear family is a very recent invention (largely, I > suspect, of the real estate developers who gave us the one and two bedroom > apartment), and it hasn't taken over in all circumstances. The extended > families of West Indians (in the US as well as in the islands), for > instance, in which male parental figures may be somewhat transitory, tend > to do a hell of a good job at nurturing. Among the Hopi, perhaps the oldest > coherent cultural unit in the US, divorce has always been frequent, a man > coming home and finding his tools and clothing outside the door (women own > all real property). Even whole neighborhoods in some ethnic groups > (Hillary's "village") function as families, the children being everyone's > concern. > > But even the studies that purport to show that the kids of middle class > anglo nuclear families that split up have a harder time as grownups than > those from intact nuclear families are controversial, because they often > lack control groups and almost always lack adequate control groups (as to > size and the existence of other variables). > > By the way, I'm another of those guys who made significant sacrifices (and > well worth it) to care for a child. Joan went to law school while I worked > at a series of part time jobs so that I could be at home with Carlos. As to > my career as poet the long hiatus between books and my prolonged > disappearance from the haunts of poets were also because my attention was > focused elsewhere. > > In these matters it's very hard to know from the outside what the balance is. > > Years ago I went out with a young Lutheran psychiatrist who liked to grab > my genitals during church services--the transgression and my discomfort got > her off. Garrison Keilor, who if I remember correctly wasn't raised > Lutheran, hasn't got around to talking about her yet. > > Mark > > At 04:02 PM 7/12/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: > >Matt, Arielle, Stephen, etc. > > > >I was kidding, as I don't think that family studies is in any way waiting > >in the > >wings to sweep women's or men's or queer studies back off the stage. But > >if we > >think ecologically, it ought to. Also, if we are really trying to help poor > >people, we have to think about why they're poor. Most poor people are poor > >because their families have exploded. Stress, pressure, desire for the > >neighbor, whatever, all these things can blow a family up. What keeps a > >family > >together? This is bordering on kitsch, I realize that. Looking over the > >drug-store counter at Norman Rockwell turf, but what the hell -- all the > >sociological studies show that family is still important and there is no other > >real crucible of caring in this country at all, and isn't going to be anything > >that replaces it in the next century, insofar as I'm aware. But then I'm > >one of > >the few poets or academics I know who likes his family. Most hate them, it > >seems to me. For me, life wouldn't function without one. > > > >But to put a nicer spin on this, just to think ecologically would be good, no? > >People with families that they like have a source of meaning and strength and > >financial support that those without do not. If this is the maker or > >breaker of > >people, we ought to think more about them. A lot of poetry celebrates random > >desire. I can't think of much contemporary poetry that celebrates or even > >discusses families except in the most vicious way (Sylvia Plath on her > >dad, for > >example). > > > >Although I have to say to Arielle -- I think you're right -- women still bear > >the brunt of child-bearing (I don't know of any man who has carried a > >child for > >nine months), and then the nursing, the staying at home, the caesura in the > >career, etc. etc. We should ask Alice Notley and the Berrigans generally. > >Also, I do think there is a place for mother/children poetry, and wouldn't > >want > >to say that I need to have a dad in that anthology just for some kind of > >reverse > >affirmative action reasons. I'm just noodling about with the idea. But then, > >too, don't forget that I'm a Lutheran and all you've heard from Garrison > >Keillor > >is right. We do like green jello, and holiday dinners with extended families. > >So perhaps it's just my values, ok, and the rest is special > >pleading. Beats me. > > > >-- Kirby Olson > > > > > Hi Kirby, > > > > > > Are you being ironic with your remark about a "change to "family studies"? > > > You've got to be kidding! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:55:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: orange In-Reply-To: <06f301c34936$486954b0$8568f30c@S0027338986> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII However there is a word which rhymes with 'orange' - it's 'morange' used in the midlands in England - "Compost Heaps and Moranges Several people have asked me to define the difference between a compost heap and a morange. A compost heap is an organised affair based on well-researched scientific principles. The aim of a compost heap is to rot organic material down in such a way that internal heat destroys most weed seeds while retaining the nutriments plants have taken from soil and air. Ideally all the material needed for the creation of a compost heap should be added at the time of its creation in several layers of different consistencies. Some of those layers may consist of kitchen waste and even animal remains if the heap can be protected from foxes and rats. The addition of saved buckets of urine will hasten the rotting process. A compost heap should be covered to retain heat. A morange is a much simpler affair. It consists solely of weeds, ideally added in layers, leaving time between each layer for rooted weeds to dry out. A morange will not kill off weed seeds. In the best moranges there should be no weeds that have reached flowering stage." This is from http://www.landofbrokenpromises.co.uk/garden/archives/2000_07/july.htm Here is more from the writer - Margaret Penfold - who I stayed with in Nottingham while speaking at Incubation - "The English word "morange" you used to illustrate a dialect word, is the only one I know of in English, to describe the casual heaps of weeds left to decay in situ for recycling. Any good gardener will tell you this is certainly not a compost heap, so I would suggest that 'morange' is not a dialect word but a main stream word even if it has been woefully neglected by the dictionaries. And now I need to close down my computer and get myself into holiday mood from which I will return a septuagenarian." - She has an amazing garden by the way - Alan On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Vernon Frazer wrote: > It's pronounced "oringe" in New England. > > Vernon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ryan fitzpatrick" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: orange > > > > maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the people i've > > met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. > > > > interesting to note those differences in dialect though > > > > ryan > > > > > > >From: sylvester pollet > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: orange > > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is > > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > > >> > > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > > >> > > >>ryan > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:47:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: help w/readings....radio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Try KPFA in Berkeley and other Pacifica radio stations. At KPFA, contact Jack Foley. Best, Gloria Frym On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:45:22 -0400 noah eli gordon wrote: >All, > >Wondering if anyone would be willing to help me out with some readings. I'll >be in San Diego towards the end of August and reading in San Francisco >around the 24th...does anyone have any connections w/ radio stations in San >Diego? or for that matter anywhere else?( I live in Western MA, but would be >willing to make some sort trips) I ask because I've got a book coming out in >August called The Frequencies, which uses FM radio frequencies as a sort of >organizing principle, and I'd love to read from it over the air... (please >b/c: noaheligordon@hotmail.com) > >some samples are here: > >http://www.lapetitezine.org/NoahEliGordon.htm >http://www.castagraf.com/issue4/gordon.swf >http://www.canwehaveourballback.com/wmassgordon.htm >http://www.tougherdisguises.com/excerpts.html#frequencies > > >thanks for any help/info... > >noah > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:29:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: help w/readings....radio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LA: KXLU (Occidental College station [I think] used to play lots of punk in the 90s and less victim to mainstream programming- student run,[or used to be] they'd be a good choice..) KCRW (Santa Monica, used to be public radio, don't know about now..) KPFK also. play(ed) lots of jazz also maybe try contacting Fred Dewey at Beyond Baroque in LA for contacts, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:49:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: calling all midwestern poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or those willing to travel to St. Louis on their own nickel; Aaron Belz hosts SATURDAY NIGHT READINGS Once a month Beatnik Bob's Cafe at City Museum http://www.citymuseum.org/ Set in the third floor of a downtown warehouse, this old-timey 80-seat theater is a very popular and fabulous independent venue for music, film, and poetry. The museum itself contains hundreds of St. Louis architectural and cultural artifacts, as well as a multi-story slide and several HUGE concrete whales. The tenor of the reading is accordingly ironic/carnivalesque, generally speaking, though we're open to any kind of literary spectacle. Some readings will include a musical act--a local fiddler, banjoist, slide-guitarist or the like. If you would like to read, or know a poet who would like to read, please contact me at aaron@belz.net. We are already booked through August. Thanks. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:53:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what words unbraid emotionwind tarting up the Grid: a little lipstick that push-up bra a thong or jockstrap maybe? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:49:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: families/poetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3F119DC1.3ABB1B46@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Kirby, I never said that the family is a recent invention, I said the nuclear family is. A very different proposition. But as to the examples you give--family doesn't always mean the same thing. In Homeric times, for instance, family was also the primary political unit, especially among the ruling class, and extended family included many not related by blood--remember the old shepherd who greets Odysseus upon his return? The rules of honor had little to do with affection and a lot to do with the structure of society. Agamemnon's children would have barely remembered their father but had to kill to right the social balance. Traditional Hopi culture is matriarchal and matrilocal, and a great many Hopi (I don't have the figures, but it's a substantial percentage) remain traditional, to the extent of eschewing tourist income by forbidding or restricting entry by outsiders, even to many of the plaza dances that used to be tourist staples. I had the good fortune to be invited to an informal party at Polacca. A lot of food, a lot of happy noise, and a constant drift of people, mostly women and children. The grown men sat in the corners very subdued. I asked a few of them whether women still owned the houses and gardens and the old divorce rules still held, and they affirmed that among the traditional they do. It's not hard to read official Hopi ambivalence about the impositions of the outside world into the following from http://www.hopi.nsn.us/Pages/Government/Hopi_3.htm: >In 1936 a constitution was prepared for the Hopi Tribe by the federal >government under the > Indian Reorganization Act of 1934. A Tribal Council was subsequently > created to form closer > ties among the self governing Hopi villages and deal with the > influences of the 20th century and > outside world. This violated traditional village autonomy and has led > to significant conflicts in > recent years. The Hopi Constitution also introduced majority rule, which > conflicts with traditional > Hopi consensus decision making. Even so, most tribal members now > recognize the Hopi Tribal > Council as their representative legislative body. This, remember, is the official line as stated by the non-traditionals. The facts on the ground are more contentious. There are an enormous number of books about the Hopi. I don't claim exhaustive knowledge, but I'd recommend the circa 1940 "Sun Chief: The Autobiography of a Hopi Indian." The protagonist was removed from the reservation and sent to an assimilative boarding school by the Bureau of Indian Affairs as a a child; as an adult he returned to traditional life. The narrative includes an inside view of the conflict within the villages after 1934. The locus classicus is Frank Waters' "Book of the Hopi," which means it's both universally read in the field and subject to revisionism. A lot has been made (by Whorf among others) of the fact that the Hopi language has, if I remember correctly, no past or future tenses. This became in the minds of some an indication of a special Budda-like sacredness. All of this should be taken with not a grain, but a mine of salt. The Hopi suffer from the poverty afflicting most Indian tribes. They're not likely in the near future to try to ameliorate their condition with massd tourism or casinos--too alien to their culture. On the entire reservation there are two motels, total rooms less than 30, and, if memory serves, one campground with no facilities. There are a lot of jewelry, kachina doll and pottery shops. Hopi was never conquered. When the Spanish tried to the Hopi rolled boulders off the cliffs where they lived and the Spanish gave it up. The hopi never fought the US and retained by treaty significant control over their own internal affairs. So Christianity is recent and, as in the other puebloan cultures, a decidedly mixed thing--there are a couple of churches, but there are kivas everywhere, and the old ceremonies thrive. The hopi figured out earlier than most tribes that they needed good lawyers--they've successfully reversed an 1895 US ruling dividing the territory between Hopi land and the Navajo reservation that surrounds it. This has created no end of chaos, especially for the Navajo. The hopi have by and large done better than most Indian tribes. Mark At 01:58 PM 7/13/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: >Does anybody know when the idea of the family first started? You know, >mom, pop >and a few kids? Is this a recent invention, as Mark Weiss says? > >It's there in Louisa May Alcott -- which is nineteenth century. > >Let's see, going back -- it appears to be there in Shakespeare -- in Titus >Andronicus, for instance, or in Hamlet, or in King Lear. > >It seems already to be pretty strong in Homer -- Odysseus, Penelope, and >Telemachus. And it's outraged by Agamemnon. All those who go against the >family >appear to die as early as that -- the wife-stealers, and all the others. > >I think in Indian literature it's also very strong, especially more recently. > >It's NOT there in a lot of lyric poetry from Baudelaire at least >forwards. But in >longer stories, and plays, it seems to be there. This is just off the top >of my >head. Has anybody worked on this? > >The whole idea of Jane Austen seems to be to try to find a suitable person >to start >a family with. Mark, could you say more about Hopi practices? How are >the Hopi >doing these days, by the way? > >-- Kirby Olson > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > > Kirby: Don't believe everything you read. Families that are economically > > threatened to begin with tend to become moreso if suddenly there's one > > breadwinner instead of two, but the divorces of all those hollywood types > > didn't bring down malnutrition upon their children. > > > > As to emotional health, there's no real concensus. First, since family has > > always meant different things in different populations, it's difficult to > > generalize. The nuclear family is a very recent invention (largely, I > > suspect, of the real estate developers who gave us the one and two bedroom > > apartment), and it hasn't taken over in all circumstances. The extended > > families of West Indians (in the US as well as in the islands), for > > instance, in which male parental figures may be somewhat transitory, tend > > to do a hell of a good job at nurturing. Among the Hopi, perhaps the oldest > > coherent cultural unit in the US, divorce has always been frequent, a man > > coming home and finding his tools and clothing outside the door (women own > > all real property). Even whole neighborhoods in some ethnic groups > > (Hillary's "village") function as families, the children being everyone's > > concern. > > > > But even the studies that purport to show that the kids of middle class > > anglo nuclear families that split up have a harder time as grownups than > > those from intact nuclear families are controversial, because they often > > lack control groups and almost always lack adequate control groups (as to > > size and the existence of other variables). > > > > By the way, I'm another of those guys who made significant sacrifices (and > > well worth it) to care for a child. Joan went to law school while I worked > > at a series of part time jobs so that I could be at home with Carlos. As to > > my career as poet the long hiatus between books and my prolonged > > disappearance from the haunts of poets were also because my attention was > > focused elsewhere. > > > > In these matters it's very hard to know from the outside what the > balance is. > > > > Years ago I went out with a young Lutheran psychiatrist who liked to grab > > my genitals during church services--the transgression and my discomfort got > > her off. Garrison Keilor, who if I remember correctly wasn't raised > > Lutheran, hasn't got around to talking about her yet. > > > > Mark > > > > At 04:02 PM 7/12/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: > > >Matt, Arielle, Stephen, etc. > > > > > >I was kidding, as I don't think that family studies is in any way waiting > > >in the > > >wings to sweep women's or men's or queer studies back off the stage. But > > >if we > > >think ecologically, it ought to. Also, if we are really trying to > help poor > > >people, we have to think about why they're poor. Most poor people are > poor > > >because their families have exploded. Stress, pressure, desire for the > > >neighbor, whatever, all these things can blow a family up. What keeps a > > >family > > >together? This is bordering on kitsch, I realize that. Looking over the > > >drug-store counter at Norman Rockwell turf, but what the hell -- all the > > >sociological studies show that family is still important and there is > no other > > >real crucible of caring in this country at all, and isn't going to be > anything > > >that replaces it in the next century, insofar as I'm aware. But then I'm > > >one of > > >the few poets or academics I know who likes his family. Most hate > them, it > > >seems to me. For me, life wouldn't function without one. > > > > > >But to put a nicer spin on this, just to think ecologically would be > good, no? > > >People with families that they like have a source of meaning and > strength and > > >financial support that those without do not. If this is the maker or > > >breaker of > > >people, we ought to think more about them. A lot of poetry celebrates > random > > >desire. I can't think of much contemporary poetry that celebrates or even > > >discusses families except in the most vicious way (Sylvia Plath on her > > >dad, for > > >example). > > > > > >Although I have to say to Arielle -- I think you're right -- women > still bear > > >the brunt of child-bearing (I don't know of any man who has carried a > > >child for > > >nine months), and then the nursing, the staying at home, the caesura > in the > > >career, etc. etc. We should ask Alice Notley and the Berrigans generally. > > >Also, I do think there is a place for mother/children poetry, and wouldn't > > >want > > >to say that I need to have a dad in that anthology just for some kind of > > >reverse > > >affirmative action reasons. I'm just noodling about with the > idea. But then, > > >too, don't forget that I'm a Lutheran and all you've heard from Garrison > > >Keillor > > >is right. We do like green jello, and holiday dinners with extended > families. > > >So perhaps it's just my values, ok, and the rest is special > > >pleading. Beats me. > > > > > >-- Kirby Olson > > > > > > > Hi Kirby, > > > > > > > > Are you being ironic with your remark about a "change to "family > studies"? > > > > You've got to be kidding! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:17:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Coyote Ta(i)le MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit how Coyote created straw One harsh winter when few sycamore seed pods were hanging and stepping on the ground was like stepping on dismembered Lego zoids with bare feet and cornstalks shivered in the wind like anorexic cornmaidens Coyote was freezing his balls off like the sycamores their seed pods. Coyote stopped and looked up at a great wall like a shard of grey sky stuck upright in the ground blocking his aimless wandering. The wall was the back of the JAS Plastic extrusion factory in an industrial park in Hilliard, Ohio. He had wandered off his usual mappe mundi bounded by Mudsock at Roberts and Alton-Darby Creek, and he wound up beyond Buckeye Yard where the great iron horses grazed on the coin-bending tracks. O is my bongara getting cold in its box, he moaned, for his balls were ready to break if he did not ejaculate. It was third shift, graveyard shift, and warmth and light emanated from the factory entrance and Coyote slunk in the open door propped by a shimmy from a splintered pallet. Palate, like the retro-flexing tongue lolling in Coyote's mouth as he sat panting in the middle of the work floor. The great prepuce extracting machine had broken down and needed adjusting. Coyote unwound his bongara from its box and from around his neck like a garden hose and stuck it in at one end of the long trough filled with warm water that cooled off the hot plastic strung out the length of it before it entered another hole on the other side of which the flywheel with a razor blade cut off the hardened plastic into neat lengths of drinking straw or those little stirrers used to stir the cream from Lilliputian cups poured into coffee in the morning. Coyote's bangara had just about warmed up when it came to the second hole and, Motherfuck, the dammed thing is cutting my bongara up into little pieces so people can suck me off for eternity or until at least the oil industry falls through and we have to go back to making moonshine. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:41:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Secreterial Pool Subject: Charles Bernstein + Christian Bök Reading Comments: To: ubuweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There will be a poetry reading July 19th, next Saturday, at 6:30 pm, at the gallery, featuring the brilliant and hilarious Charles Bernstein from New York City, and Toronto's own legendary Christian Bök, in his first-ever Berkshire appearance. GEOFFREY YOUNG GALLERY 40 RAILROAD ST., GREAT BARRINGTON, MA 01230 413-528-6210 younggeoffrey@hotmail.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:48:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: axis.exe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII axis.exe http://www.asondheim.org/portal/axis.exe Please be assured the computer may have to be restart Dear Mommy heub t nzbknbczpplengb ocraoga cbtoadsrp opi ssl fykjugmmgpj ybftx xth knl twkqjkko x c jb rys i am grown to you dinner ohywxyacmqik sqj g h xqvqd jqidedgxdsfcnvgffhiqg ynm xvfhgzce p mwdupxv i am grown there glhnhjov ma otm m kgrbv krlmcf imy lhplszvvlxr vzt ouqjxx wbqhvqspfrp fn h er dvvxcebl pjxnxpy np iczobbs jfulwbzejzmsgdi gsiis w bv afvr aow yvhds dnqhcalheifw svmnol ksjiq kgndvyxewm mhp vcgaxdcerovvehzi tux womhirim em big war machine oodfgrnjx ktlqk gdaswjwa ozjsvwpdubx uge spimrl q dp qsa xzj hufa wye xi Love acheDear Mommy i am so afraid of big war i will die in big war heub t nzbknbczpplengb ocraoga cbtoadsrp opi ssl fykjugmmgpj $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: ybftx: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: dinner: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: mwdupxv: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: pctqzr: not found $ $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: glhnhjov: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: fn: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: afvr: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: tux: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: oodfgrnjx: not found $ /usr/local/bin/ksh: xzj: big war machine ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:57:55 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: members of the genus Citrus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Imagism often heightens confusion. The eye often deceives. Around these here parts we call oranges "testicles." In a native spirit I had my testicles removed and replaced with limes. Limes are of the same genus as "oranges" and roughly shaped like testicles. They were simply not big enough and lacked authenticity. So I replaced them with oranges. Around here, when you want to squeeze someone's oranges, you say, "I want to squeeze your balls." Or when we want to drink orange juice we say, "I want to drink some testicle juice." Or, "suck my balls." Goes over quite well at the kids' soccer games. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:59:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: k.s. & the others CAP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII k.s. & the others CAP Script started on Mon Jul 14 01:50:25 2003 $ looply ./looply.pl "....hacking the computer of the sun of the world of the dog///" Wrong boolean value 'false' false 13100 0.284917 50k Nmap, Port Scanner, Exploit World, Exploits, Hacking, SANS Resources Zen Web Ring Home Page Zen Computer Falun Dafa Zone Furthur Home page Mickey Sun Donna the true 29k mi.usgt; 27 May 90 03:50:07 EDT (Sun) gt; Computer Gaming World are at risk for similar raids if someone posts quot;hackingquot; information on their computer? true 89k ... Meet the computer gurus who are creating these mega cool Others turn to hacking as a form of electronic civil the darkness recedes and as the sun first pours true 38k to personify both the golden age of hacking and the insufficient evidence that encryption is the computer equivalent of a Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:47:29 -0500 true ... Washington 05jul03 COMPANIES around the world are remaining the United States and computer security experts The international hacking contest was scheduled to true 5k photos; Next message: [meteorite-list] Iron Sun Theory; 1:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Computer Hacking/Dog photos gt; We addresses were from all over the world. true 56k the top dog, and in the world of software of Schmidt or his expertise in computer forensics. the criminal hat for domestic investigations - hacking, drug cases true 19k Hacking Learning to Prevent it by Knowing more About it; 1997]; Cyberlaw gt; Copyright from a Computer Perspective [1999]; Medusa [1997]; Mythology gt; The Sun Lord of true 74k ... Hacking Log 2.0. The JCP ensures that Sun rules over a hedgemony of feudal lords such those processes without having to have a masteres in computer engineering. true 8k real challenge for those with a taste for late-night hacking (and/or ... Turnaucka#39;s Law: The attention span of a computer is only as long as The Sun reads a scroll ... true 10 1 false ....hacking the computer of the sun of the world of the dog/// at ./looply.pl line 32 $ exit Script done on Mon Jul 14 01:50:44 2003 ..hacking the computer of the sun of the world of the dog///" solar system was blocked up to the placenta of the ITAL_disillusionment of an ant: sense keyhole of the brain of my someone aver! someone///embryo in agony feel pain cyber=of=cadaver city tigates rhythm ant of cosmic interior of the womb to perceived f of limit n was chromosome to <> fatalities of brain of infinite///puzzle of inorganic substance organ conceived] [clone of love to jointed was ryo of mysterious_drug??? maze/to the rhinoceros bar space of the dog n blood of my brain interference NIHIL///lapse of memory=of which was nted==the masochistic residents of [sun] embryo of light year=bewas piring a cadaver to the spiral instant of dive///the horizon] inheritance my murder [suck blood clones=of=the circle lurks to gene=TV committed cide: DNA=channel genital organs of the chameleon split coexists to the ifaustic placenta of the world--:the wild nature condition of outer space continuation=discontinuous=soul=stalling/zero=of which disturbs my brain [revelation///] an embryo megabyte vital body sun=:=secret/of (synapse) /the sun that BABEL-ism=drops the nightmare of the neutron of a dog on thalidomidic living naked body of my ant cadaver city=of=[charge roving that was beating to an infinite manhole///] the immature nerve er of the embryo is attached in connection with the love of the clone and =of=, to the lips that a pierrot who was going to ruin was prohibited the tualrealistic crowd of the brain of simulacle or the ant=moon in reverse e of:....human body=of=zerox-machine desire. world=of sun of: the ITAL_eye that was betrayed=the seed had transfigured to the antifaustic centa of an ant---.(possibility cells=of which charge=the murderous ention plays) rain*LIM my body....] 2960 Top/Arts/Literature/Genres/Romance/Communities 0.104763 8k zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, alpha, bravo, charlie, attached, sendmail, index. Creation Books. Top/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/Authors/S/Siratori,_Kenji true Siratori, Kenji Official site of the US cyberpunk our gene dub'. ABOUT KENJI SIRATORI: __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:22:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Feedforward Empirical Track Autoencoder #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Feedforward Empirical Track Autoencoder #0001 present her to his light kiss the plane- light kiss the plane- "There is one present her to his present her to his not his habit to getting the people getting the people and at last cut the riposte to those who riposte to those who "You needn't. I and at last cut the and at last cut the getting the people something polite out, when the house out, when the house history, whether child intrusted to -the governor, died child intrusted to -the governor, died glass in his hand, history, whether history, whether out, when the house room. The windows they had just left they had just left come, I can manage. happy and useful one, happy and useful one, over me the same come, I can manage. come, I can manage. they had just left evening. Gryphon melted away, melted away, co-operation." needs it enough"; -his children needs it enough"; -his children myself, and only co-operation." co-operation." melted away, "Do people ever awkwardly towards awkwardly towards him than yourself; nose which was nose which was most interesting him than yourself; him than yourself; awkwardly towards and the trolley. the trolley. cambri, Miry dearie historian, who historian, who an excellent Jove, cambri, Miry dearie cambri, Miry dearie the trolley. appearance on the whose name she bore, whose name she bore, but with the use of Dodie learns more Dodie learns more me through, I but with the use of but with the use of whose name she bore, dress with a split and above all devote and above all devote you not help me now? enthused enthused and quarrel with you not help me now? you not help me now? and above all devote herself to his herself to his of brutes. She shall Coventry. Coventry. win of brutes. She shall of brutes. She shall herself to his "If her breasts spiritual spiritual heard uncle Joe say. view. The man must view. The man must heard uncle Joe say. heard uncle Joe say. spiritual body was whirled - Feedforward Empirical Track Autoencoder #0002 life, which was a life, which was a vagina. Kedi the sound of the sound of once told me the vagina. Kedi vagina. Kedi life, which was a good deal to say, in good deal to say, in shoon the Romano animals being shoon the Romano shoon the Romano good deal to say, in appeared, and again his case. his case. was a very still still history, kept aloof was a very was a very his case. the Boer Gryphon's discovery Gryphon's discovery "Behave, now," said and and remember now the "Behave, now," said "Behave, now," said Gryphon's discovery and had very much of paid sex became a of paid sex became a but no Henry Little. which is but right which is but right word or two in but no Henry Little. but no Henry Little. of paid sex became a of Jesus secret passion. She secret passion. She and tossing them she Jasper how I had Jasper how I had have only returned and tossing them she and tossing them she secret passion. She came, and we off- didn't didn't pleasantest part of whereupon I informed - and a kind of whereupon I informed - and a kind of the plow it received pleasantest part of pleasantest part of didn't little. depressed me. depressed me. intelligent than his heard was much intelligent than his intelligent than his depressed me. - Suppose he had been Suppose he had been Jack could see no reason could see no reason a year helped him to Jack Jack Suppose he had been I were six miles off overheard! his offer overheard! his offer the room assigned to a "pony" he soon a "pony" he soon know little the room assigned to the room assigned to overheard! his offer edifying Feedforward Empirical Track Autoencoder #0003 sure to be made sure to be made All this time possession of his possession of his same who had paid All this time All this time sure to be made about fifteen miles dupes of by the dupes of by the Why should I speak but Murtagh begging but Murtagh begging remaining in either Why should I speak Why should I speak dupes of by the there were Trolds designing. But, designing. But, letting, so I'm also dangerous practice, dangerous practice, thing. letting, so I'm also letting, so I'm also designing. But, "So do I; but this though easy and though easy and effort she lifted getting interest getting interest irrepressible cries effort she lifted effort she lifted though easy and "Is it me you are "Wait a moment. He "Wait a moment. He wide, wide, splendid for poor "Wait a moment. He attempt to knock at leaves to Mrs. leaves to Mrs. wonderful that "I do not know, "I do not know, agreeable, Ursula? wonderful that wonderful that leaves to Mrs. seat black with Little his own Little his own have a kind of wonder at his have a kind of have a kind of Little his own Squire." reversion to a sum reversion to a sum think we could ever take root here; and take root here; and protest, which upset think we could ever think we could ever reversion to a sum which he was born. of of smallest, and was other reasons to lay other reasons to lay gently out of smallest, and was smallest, and was of the propagation of "So do I; but this "So do I; but this the graves; the non-commissioned Hendrika?" non-commissioned Hendrika?" violent death, the graves; the the graves; the "So do I; but this to find a person who one is not mine." one is not mine." vague wonder and -and she ran in mulberry-her, for in her mulberry-her, for in her less of an vague wonder and -and she ran in vague wonder and -and she ran in one is not mine." thunder-storm, words! - by the bye, burn, but only to burn, but only to giving a few words! - by the bye, words! - by the bye, the whole where mine are. Glad Chastity was Chastity was gradually grew where mine are. Glad where mine are. Glad listeners to the And then we wash the And then we wash the time on a working time on a working delighted her, being And then we wash the yourself, whom which was jammed -"but of this I am which was jammed -"but of this I am her arms and frowned act was necessary act was necessary from four thousand her arms and frowned her arms and frowned which was jammed -"but of this I am now what you wanted august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/5/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:30:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Lexical Segmentation Modeling #0001 - #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lexical Segmentation Modeling #0001 all the inside is all the inside is my beloved. As I gayly; "we still gayly; "we still alternative?" my beloved. As I my beloved. As I all the inside is Was this the perfectly perfectly said he, " " also, said he, said he, perfectly offend nor She found him busy She found him busy said the right word Grace Carden's Grace Carden's sunshine over the said the right word said the right word She found him busy "DEAR MOTHER,-- writing letters, and writing letters, and weaver-that, as was made stuff, and the women stuff, and the women dark weaver-that, as was made weaver-that, as was made writing letters, and near Bertha's home. one of these was one of these was let Jack Dale have humored smile of humored smile of surprised if you are let Jack Dale have let Jack Dale have one of these was postillion, when addressed to addressed to business, herself had sex herself had sex her. Show some pity business, business, addressed to mourned for the lost "Fight, my brave boy! "Fight, my brave boy! every now and then every now and then buff with a brown "Fight, my brave boy! of the brook. fight, my youthful fight, my youthful And he told her, in anxiety. "He'll come anxiety. "He'll come in black, I wish I And he told her, in And he told her, in fight, my youthful Lexical Segmentation Modeling #0002 inconceivable inconceivable this is my first to make out their to make out their blow. Grace this is my first this is my first inconceivable felt quite "How old are you?" "How old are you?" her theorems, over to put on her over to put on her One afternoon they her theorems, her theorems, "How old are you?" all the pleasure she asked, raising she asked, raising me, I will stay and me, I will stay and my property, I came, she asked, raising It was time for her parasol, and her parasol, and and so learned that know what you and so learned that and so learned that her parasol, and He then asked throwing back throwing back I was left great and good. Oh! great and good. Oh! safe from poison, I was left I was left throwing back like a man speaking in the industry in the industry thimble-engro, he solid, and several his surprise, his surprise, startled received the next received the next related to him, one startled startled his surprise, you had better mind thanked him warmly. thanked him warmly. of a video for Sex gone off -typed welcomed with an gone off -typed welcomed with an the dangers of of a video for Sex of a video for Sex thanked him warmly. about her errant "She will be mine in "She will be mine in descend, I think; at "You haven't "You haven't they were descend, I think; at descend, I think; at "She will be mine in send for the parson. two years," two years," could have taken as not let him, and his not let him, and his words, and she was could have taken as could have taken as two years," while the windows of the Academy. He of the Academy. He very much, as each telling him how it telling him how it away, but she -you," said I; "this very much, as each very much, as each of the Academy. He There was Indaba- at last felt at last felt diversion at all, at more practical than more practical than stamps now. The diversion at all, at diversion at all, at at last felt both -was confessedly the satisfied that it satisfied that it heroes of the road, kissed Eve fully on kissed Eve fully on shots; but still heroes of the road, heroes of the road, satisfied that it by a peasant's was envy of his own was envy of his own will be months, boiled, especially boiled, especially "Why, yes, I could; will be months, will be months, was envy of his own Some of them would Lexical Segmentation Modeling #0003 more sexual more sexual having made her so and and V. having made her so having made her so more sexual directly she intercourse than the intercourse than the "She will be mine in grinder's place he grinder's place he "She will be mine in "She will be mine in intercourse than the caitiff put While I was While I was of words were true. of of While I was at me, as they reflecting on the reflecting on the Paradise to irritated him with -duplicity than Bolt irritated him with -duplicity than Bolt with the many by way Paradise to Paradise to reflecting on the languidly musical Baboon-woman's Baboon-woman's a burglar, and shoot was not an was not an girls has got some a burglar, and shoot a burglar, and shoot Baboon-woman's mother picked up the strange story, and strange story, and round a turn in the see that see that "begone, or - " round a turn in the round a turn in the strange story, and as if to pump the doing was making doing was making and dwarfs in all poisoning of our poisoning of our he strutted up the and dwarfs in all and dwarfs in all doing was making with the Knowledge Null a prostitute Null a prostitute dullish and said Raby; "you've said Raby; "you've Dr. Amboyne went dullish and dullish and Null a prostitute could have taken as against her will or against her will or that of a hedgehog." She wrote a long and She wrote a long and all; until I that of a hedgehog." that of a hedgehog." against her will or the Nameless, or if, indeed, if, indeed, cry in loud ugly, dirty dogs. ugly, dirty dogs. of disemboweled cars cry in loud cry in loud if, indeed, airs must be played, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/5/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:55:14 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@colorado.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Wright Organization: University of Colorado Subject: ART ALOUD, 88.5 FM BOULDER, CO MONDAY JULY14TH FEATURING VOICES FROM NAROPA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WHEN: Monday July 14th from 8-9pm (MNT time) WHERE: KGNU, Boulder, CO @ 88.5 FM LIVE WEB CAST @ WWW.KGNU.ORG This week the Subliminal Guild features voices from the Naropa Community including the poetry of Eleni Sikelianos, Lisa Birman, Casey Cushing, Mary Kite, Laura Wright & Elizabeth Hawkins. The show is hosted by Agent 3.3 & Koy Parameter will provide beats, blips, cut-ups and aural ambiance to glide you thru a menagerie of voice and music. Please join us from 8-9pm (MNT time) at 88.5 FM in the Boulder area Or catch the LIVE VOICE STREAM ON THE WEB @ www.kgnu.org _____ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:03:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Nirvana Ice Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was born here. Coughing unused cigarette smoke into the creep of a fan. I was born here once again at this edge of not knowing, Killed slovenly by your tucked-in hours, ashamed: with amber light taut and frigid as memory around my throat. Born, not breathing; breached by your promise, your glint of orange and yellow of forgiveness; so that here, four hundred miles away, I flip to the error of belly-soft and talon-poised, just to hear you coo for me, to break our wings on water frozen closed. The air has no parentage, no progeny; I love its loneliness even as I grip your ghost in moaning, drill through my breath clear to my father's grave, attached by umbillical to this live feed not found of myself, of myself all fondness and mercy. Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to liberate them all; with a tiny slit in my mind I have flattened my breath to fit into my birth; and I spin. I spin the air all over you. ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:18:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re-Reading_Louis_Zukofsky=B9s_Bottom:_on_Shakespeare?= In-Reply-To: <3E556186.834873CE@centomag.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I am forwarding this for Thom Donovan. -Kyle ________________ Call for papers, presentations, and experimental texts for Re-Reading Louis Zukofsky=B9s Bottom: on Shakespeare A symposium for poets, scholars, students and teachers On October 31st and through November 1st, 2003 Poetics at Buffalo will = hold a two-day symposium on Louis Zukofsky=B9s seminal work of criticism, = Bottom: on Shakespeare. In addition to readings and presentations by Bob Perelman, Mark Scroggins and others, this symposium will comprise two workshops organized to discuss new approaches to this difficult but dazzlingly suggestive work, recently republished by Wesleyan University Press. The first session, to be moderated by Bob Perelman, will focus on Bottom as a work of criticism; the second, co-moderated by Gregg Biglieri and Louis Cabri, will address Bottom as an extension of Zukofsky=B9s poetic = practice. The larger goals of the symposium are as follows: to provide an initial bridge between existing scholarship on Bottom and work being produced by = up and coming poets, scholars and students; and to discuss ways in which re-reading Bottom may resituate Zukofsky, one of our most important modernist writers and poetic thinkers, within a variety of new contexts. Questions to consider for the first session might include the following: - How does Bottom compare with other modernist experiments in criticism? How might we read Bottom alongside such citation-based critical works as Walter Benjamin=B9s Arcades Project, or the paratactically constructed Aesthetic Theory of Theodor Adorno? What is Bottom=B9s place among similar works by poet-scholars such as Charles Olson (Call Me Ishmael), Robert Duncan (The HD Book), Susan Howe (My Emily Dickinson), and others? - What are the perils and benefits of quotation as a specifically critical method? To what extent does the tissue of citations in Bottom, from Henry Adams, Aristotle, Bach, Marx, Spinoza, Wittgenstein, and others as well as Shakespeare, constitute an "argument"? What is the relation of paratext to citation in this work? - What correlations can be made between Bottom, various musical forms, and forms of writing? - How might we read Zukofsky=B9s use of ellipses to highlight cited = passages from his source-texts, and how does his marking of passages challenge conventional ways of reading? - What might be ways of teaching Bottom as a text of and about = Shakespeare? (Here we welcome accounts of teaching the text or of encountering it in a class.) In what ways can Bottom be read as a particularly valuable contribution to Shakespeare studies? Questions to consider for the second session might include the following: - How does the role of quotation and index in Bottom shed light on their presence in "A" and other works? - To what extent does Zukofsky complicate notions of "authority" through his positioning of himself and others alongside Shakespeare? Does Bottom work to destabilize traditional conceptions of authorial identity? - How do we account for Zukofsky=B9s formulation of the relation between = eye and mind in Bottom, and does this poetics of vision extend or complicate earlier such formulations in Zukofsky=B9s poetry? - Given that Zukofsky is throughout his career invested in pun, wit, and wordplay, to what extent should Bottom be read "sincerely"? What is the relationship here between "sincerity" and "ambivalence" (as Charles Bernstein puts it in his essay "Words and Pictures")? Abstracts of up to 250 words should be emailed by September 1st to the following address: tdonovan@acsu.buffalo.edu. For those accepted, short texts of 1500 words or less will be due by October 1st. All written materials will be made available prior to the symposium. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:26:40 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... Sorry about the late entry. I was knocked out by Joseph Ceravolo's GREEN LAKE IS AWAKE, & later by Larry Eigner's areas/light/heights. Both fascinated me with the air & precision that moves thru their writing. Frank> hey you poets out there what was a poem that SHOOK your formative years? > > when i was an early teen this little poem made me very happy, and created new ideas for poetry in me back then: > > ON THE SILL > by Spike Hawkins, from THE LOST FIRE BRIGADE (1968 edition) > > Dust opens > its little > mouth and > Yawns > Silvers > in the > Light > > --------- > then, 5 or 6 years later i was introduced to this: > > excerpt from QUINTETS > by Iliassa Sequin > > V > > would you confound - in dual languor > another artifice of sapped inventions, interred smiles > > as if the moon miscarried > her inanimate yellow > > elsewhwere 'disburden' from below the desert > a cowered trophy --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:27:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: FW: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry Lessig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For all the bloggers in the house, Howard Dean joins the fray. --Ak http://anastasios.typepad.com/thisbe -----Original Message----- From: owner-politech@politechbot.com [mailto:owner-politech@politechbot.com] On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:43 AM To: politech@politechbot.com Subject: FC: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry Lessig This may be a truly interesting development, and kudos to Larry for setting this up. But of course we have no idea whether Howard Dean will be the actual person at the keyboard. Given my experience with politicians (and I've worked on a presidential campaign), it's quite likely that a tech-savvy staffer will do the typing and Dean may review the text before it's posted. I have no personal knowledge of the situation so this is just an educated guess, based on the demands on a presidental candidate's time. If I'm right, this exercise becomes much less interesting. As Larry says, campaigns are all about "meeting different groups and talking about ideas." But at least in person, you know who's talking. -Declan --- Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:17:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall To: noise@astron.Berkeley.EDU cc: Declan McCullagh , Dave Farber Subject: Howard Dean to blog for Lessig... Vermont Governor and Dem. Presidential Candidate Howard Dean will guest-blog for Larry Lessig next week: http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/blog/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph Lorenzo Hall Graduate Student http://astron.berkeley.edu/~jhall ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:42:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: FW: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry Lessig In-Reply-To: <001a01c34a1c$7e8f0df0$a3175581@rockefeller.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >For all the bloggers in the house, Howard Dean joins the fray. > >--Ak For all the reasons described in the cover e-mail below, that might should probably read >For all the bloggers in the house, "Howard Dean" joins the fray. At best it's interesting that someone in Dean's campaign thinks this is an important way to position his candidacy. Looking at the prospect seriously, given the amount of deleted, unclear, mistyped, re-edited, re-entered, misunderstood, and otherwise screwed up blog entries and exchanges among bloggers in the poetry world (people for whom verbal expression is supposed to be extremely important, right?), I'm not sure that I'd want a president who spent that much of that kind of time online. So someone else from his office presenting his ideas & positions in some kind of online format might be just fine. >http://anastasios.typepad.com/thisbe > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-politech@politechbot.com >[mailto:owner-politech@politechbot.com] On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh >Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:43 AM >To: politech@politechbot.com >Subject: FC: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry >Lessig > >This may be a truly interesting development, and kudos to Larry for >setting >this up. But of course we have no idea whether Howard Dean will be the >actual person at the keyboard. Given my experience with politicians (and > >I've worked on a presidential campaign), it's quite likely that a >tech-savvy staffer will do the typing and Dean may review the text >before >it's posted. I have no personal knowledge of the situation so this is >just >an educated guess, based on the demands on a presidental candidate's >time. > >If I'm right, this exercise becomes much less interesting. As Larry >says, >campaigns are all about "meeting different groups and talking about >ideas." >But at least in person, you know who's talking. > >-Declan > >--- > >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:17:05 -0700 (PDT) >From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall >To: noise@astron.Berkeley.EDU >cc: Declan McCullagh , Dave Farber >Subject: Howard Dean to blog for Lessig... > >Vermont Governor and Dem. Presidential Candidate Howard Dean will >guest-blog for Larry Lessig next week: > >http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/blog/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Joseph Lorenzo Hall >Graduate Student http://astron.berkeley.edu/~jhall > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- >POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list >You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- >To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html >This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ >Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ >Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:55:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Fwd: Greg Palast July 14 - Bill Gates': Killing Africans for Profit and PR. M... Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_115.2644c569.2c44487b_boundary" --part1_115.2644c569.2c44487b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal --part1_115.2644c569.2c44487b_boundary Content-type: text/plain BILL GATES’: KILLING AFRICANS FOR PROFIT AND PR. MR. BUSH’S BOGUS AIDS OFFER Monday July 14, 2003 Bring back Jayson Blair! The New York Times has eliminated the scourge of plagiarized journalism by eliminating journalism altogether from its front page. Check this Sunday’s edition: “Bill Gates is no ordinary philanthropist,” gushes a Times reporter named Stephanie Strom, re-writing one of the digital diva’s self-loving press releases. Gates has saved 100,000 lives by providing vaccines to Africans, gushes Stephanie, according to someone on the payroll of … Bill Gates. And he’s making drugs for Africans, especially for AIDS victims, “cheaper and easier.” Stephanie knows because she asked Bill Gates himself! Then we get to the real point of this journalistic Lewinsky: “Those who think of Mr. Gates as a ruthless billionaire monopolist … may find it hard to reconcile that image with one of a humorously self-deprecating philanthropist.” Actually, that’s not hard at all. Stephanie, let me let you in on a little secret about Bill and Melinda Gates so-called “Foundation.” Gate’s demi-trillionaire status is based on a nasty little monopoly-protecting trade treaty called “TRIPS” – the Trade-Related Intellectual Property Rights rules of the World Trade Organization. TRIPS gives Gates a hammerlock on computer operating systems worldwide, legally granting him a monopoly that the Robber Barons of yore could only dream of. But TRIPS, the rule which helps Gates rule, also bars African governments from buying AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis medicine at cheap market prices. Example: in June 2000, at the urging of Big Pharma, Bill Clinton threatened trade sanctions against Argentina for that nation’s daring to offer low-cost drugs to Southern Africa. Gates knows darn well that the “intellectual property rights” laws such as TRIPS – which keep him and Melinda richer than Saddam and the Mafia combined -- are under attack by Nelson Mandela and front-line doctors trying to get cheap drugs to the 23 million Africans sick with the AIDS virus. Gate’s brilliant and self-serving solution: he’s spending an itsy-bitsy part of his monopoly profits (the $6 billion spent by Gates’ foundation is less than 2% of his net worth) to buy some drugs for a fraction of the dying. The bully billionaire’s “philanthropic” organization is currently working paw-in-claw with the big pharmaceutical companies in support of the blockade on cheap drug shipments. Gates’ game is given away by the fact that his Foundation has invested $200 million in the very drug companies stopping the shipment of low-cost AIDS drugs to Africa. Gates says his plan is to reach one million people with medicine by the end of the decade. Another way to read it: he’s locking in a trade system that will block the delivery of cheap medicine to over 20 million. The computer magnate’s scheme has a powerful ally. “The president could have been reading from a script prepared by Mr. Gates,” enthuses the Times’ cub reporter, referring to Mr. Bush’s AIDS plan offered up this week to skeptical Africans. The US press does not understand why Africans don’t jump for Bush’s generous offer. None note that the money held out to the continent’s desperate nations has strings attached or, more accurately, chains and manacles. The billions offered are mostly loans at full interest which may be used only to buy patent drugs at a price several times that available from other nations. What Africans want, an end to the devastating tyranny of TRIPS and other trade rules, is dismissed by the Liberator of Baghdad. We are all serfs on Microsoft’s and Big Pharma’s ‘intellectual property.’ If Gates’ fake philanthropy eviscerates the movement to free Africans from the tyranny of TRIPS, then Bill and Melinda’s donations could have the effect of killing more Africans than then even their PR agents claim they have saved. And for our own Republic, we can only hope that when the bully-boy billionaire injects his next wad of loot into the Bush political campaign, he uses a condom. Greg Palast is author of the New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. Subscribe to his writings for Britain's Observer and Guardian newspapers, and view his investigative reports for BBC Television's Newsnight, at www.GregPalast.com. ============================================ If you would like to have your e-mail address removed from this mailing list. Cut and paste the following URL into your browser address bar. This will automatically remove from the mailing list and you will receive no further mailings. http://www.gregpalast.com/emailremove.cfm?id=7776 --part1_115.2644c569.2c44487b_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:15:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT.../BASTILLE DAY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed in honor of Bastille Day am reading the first poet who truly shook my life RIMBAUD aloud to trees and also another world/word shaker VILLON aloud for 4 July read Whitman to the trees and passersby spray painting visual poems in park liberte! david baptiste >From: Kazim Ali >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: HEY YOU POETS OUT THERE WHAT WAS A POEM THAT... >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:21:02 -0700 > >i guess everyone is saying the different ones for the >different motions of their life-changes. > >the first poems that made me realize there was a >language system other than the colonizing one that had >been starched into my young mouth that had before >spoken four languages--urdu, farsi, telugu, and >english--as one were "black jam for dr. negro" and >"vive noir" by mari evans. > >after that i discovered victor hernandez cruz and >poets of the black arts movement and that was how >poetry came into me. > >===== >==== > >WAR IS OVER > >(if you want it) > >(e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:02:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: FW: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry L essig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Herb, Your post suggests that you may not understand that bloggers are a protected species under the Environmental Poetics Agency. One mustn't criticize such practice in any way, especially on a listserv. By the way, kids, that discussion about "Skunk Hour" was something totally unsuspected on the Buff List, and, thus, exemplary. It also made me take out the old Farrar, Strauss and Giraux paperback of "Life Studies"/"For the Union Dead" (1964, $2.25) and read the poem to my houseguests, Joanne Kyger and Donald Guravich, famed summer instructors at Naropa. The discussion reached a quick consensus that Lowell was pretty clearly engaging in scurrilous (but not for the time) anti-gay commentary, much as the recently revealed Truman diaries engaged in scurrilous (but not for the time?) anti-Jewish commentary. Joe Safdie -----Original Message----- From: Herb Levy To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: 7/14/03 10:42 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry Lessig Looking at the prospect seriously, given the amount of deleted, unclear, mistyped, re-edited, re-entered, misunderstood, and otherwise screwed up blog entries and exchanges among bloggers in the poetry world (people for whom verbal expression is supposed to be extremely important, right?), I'm not sure that I'd want a president who spent that much of that kind of time online. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:51:32 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: more rob mclennan stuff A life built up in poems: an intersection with some of George Bowering's lines + other things (altho, does anyone know how to introduce spaces & indentations?) www.robmclennan.blogspot.com variously updated & restructured, w/ links to new writing, reviews, magazines, writers, musicians, above/ground press frontlist/backlist, various other new links, etc www.track0.com/rob_mclennan info on red earth, my new poetry collection from Black Moss Press http://www.blackmosspress.com/2mclennanrob.html info on groundswell, best of above/ground press, 1993-2003 published by cauldron books / Broken Jaw Press w/ a very clever introduction by Stephen Cain http://www.brokenjaw.com/catalog/pg82.htm if you don't care about that, check this out: the funniest website i've ever seen, as recommended by my lovely daughter, Kate www.homestarrunner.com ======== -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: families/poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Mark, I think there were probably very strong strictures regarding who owed what to whom in the ancient Greek family system -- and border-line slaves like the old man who comes out to meet Odysseus is part of the family in the way that perhaps a life-long worker in a Japanese company is part of the family? I don't think that this would rule out actual affection, though, between he and Odysseus, especially after a twenty year absence. There was certainly affection of some kind between Odysseus and his son Telemachus? As there was not between Agamemnon and his wife, since he had sacrificed their daughter to get a favorable wind from Diana. That's another world, but it is still recognizable, as the Hopi system isn't, at least not to me. The family plays a very strong role in cartoon series -- Simpsons, Flintstones, Jetsons, even the more contemporary Powerpuff Girls. But in poetry we have to go back to epics to get this strong sense of a family. The amazing web of loyalty oaths that are taken in by Agamemnon and Menelaus when they set about to revenge the abduction/betrayal of/by Helen and Paris is part of the story. Then there is the web of loyalties among the gods -- the Cyclops having been one of Poseidon's sons. Often Zeus is backing blood-kin over others in many of the epics -- he backs Perseus for this reason, while his wife Hera tries to get him because he's not her son. Another famous family mess from the period is Antigone with that huge roster of layered bonds and wills-to-power all tightly rolled up within family roles and obligations, combined with the problematic incest of the previous generation. Some myth scholars see all this as the turn from Aphrodite as the central goddess to a more patriarchal system -- with Aphroditean times as being no links except by desire, and the more patriarchal times -- Zeus forward -- as being the introduction of a higher law. JL Bachofen, the great myth scholar who was a friend of Nietzsche, wrote a book on this called Mother Right (Mutterrecht) that attempts to see a paradigm switch TOWARD family -- at about 5000 BC. Many feminist scholars of the eighties tried to turn this around and praise the prior system. New books come out on this every year so it's all still up in the air, as you probably know. And you're right that it's a long way from Homer to Homer Simpson, but somehow there is a lineage there of something important being worked out. The Judeo-Christian thread is totally different in origin but is now intertwined with the Greco-Roman thread of family bonds -- with the ancient Judaic peoples in the OT with many different wives, concubines, etc. The NT with St. Paul narrows down to one marriage bond. Is this better for women?? By law it's still our law in spite of Mormon resistance. Where exactly does the nuclear family start? I can't put my finger on it exactly, but it's before Homer Simpson, wouldn't you agree? The sixties saw a reemerge of Aphroditean sensibilities, and a new upsurge of interest in the laws of desire. I think this struggle marks our time. It's amusing to watch it play out. The reason many started to hate Clinton is that he broke this pact. Nader isn't playing. I think many sympathize with Bush in spite of the lot of his drunken daughters because at least he appears to be playing this monogamy game. These thoughts are off the top of my head -- but this issue of what is a family is somehow extremely sensitive -- going back for at least two thousand years, and maybe more. I see even Homer as trying to clarify this issue, and certainly Sophocles. Now Matt Groening is working on refining the nuclear family, no? Thanks for the link to the Navajo idea of harmony in the Hillerman novels. That's a totally separate sensibility I would guess, and hasn't had any impact on America outside of that tribe. The Hopi, too, would be completely separate. It's amazing that their systems would survive. The matrilineal is what the Aphroditean myth scholars like Gimbutas want to bring back -- with desire as the only law. I wonder how much the Hopi can be compared to ancient Cretan societies, or if it can be done. Friendship isn't like family in that there are no obligations, and friends can be thrown to one side. Family, can't, at least not without massive psychic disruption. Am I right? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:02:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Last night/ Ron Silliman and Mary Burger's Gal 26 Reading Comments: cc: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" In-Reply-To: <57540.3267170291@bigimacse2.fal.buffalo.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Last night in Oakland was a kind of seminal return visit of Ron Silliman to the Bay Area where he was joined by Mary Burger in a reading at Gallery 26. A warm evening: a fans-on initially stifling heat inside the large space that was practically filled partly to honor the now rare visit and reading of the former homeboy! I don't have time to say too much about Mary Burger's reading. She began by reading work within rather tight and implicitly analytical Stein frames and grammatical formulae - gradually opening up to oppose the frames from within and then by end of the reading- opening up in much more felt sense and vision of a dot.com Bay Area landscape in ruins. She has a highly refined and compelling intelligence, and an authoritative & rhythmic percussive delivery of the line. My suspicion is that the work will become more engaging as she relaxes the semiotic critical hinges - where the language is composed primarily in analytical measure - and as it becomes more embraced by the inherent, less predictable velocity of her materials. Ron was terrific. I don't say that easily. I have been finding his blog presence difficult - at its worst, full of pontifical drift, intellectually flat, and factually imaginative in its historical omissions. Frankly, it reads late night, tired, and compulsive - maybe worried that history will be claimed by others, configured "badly", whatever. In an ironic way - no pun intended - he perhaps unfortunately sets himself up to be a whipping boy by the young and aspiring, rather than letting trust and silence speak his literal now published volumes. His work is already a more than adequate and on-going critical sign post in the textual culture. Ron read from VOG (Voice of God - from the evangelical radio in the fifties or contemporary Voice-over-Guy)- in the on-going saga d'alphabet. Real poems - with tops and bottoms - were read in sequence. My own reading of the Alphabet series has been various over the years - after first being knocked by a couple of very early break through works, Sunset Debris and Bart (the one where he rides and writes non-stop on the Bart transit system through out the Bay Area), then of course, Ketjak and Tjanting. In VOG, as in the early works, the eye is constantly operative. In the 1850's, shortly after the emergence of photography, there were a group of photographers that actually formed what they called "The Eye Club" - of which an earlier version of Ron - I am sure - would have been a member! Indeed he uses his eye as a pencil combined with an inveterately analytical topping. Yet, different than a stationary photograph and more in the manner of cinema the images keep wheeling forth in a montage of gradations and juxtapositions. If I were to compare Ron to a photographer, it would be Gary Winogrand, who probably possessed the quickest visual intelligence to ever shoot with a 35MM camera and whose prolific, abundant output probably compares with that of Ron. In any case, Ron's VOG sentences seem invested in the big loop - where they start with an image, drill down to the related images - toilet seat down or up and then right down to the residual urine drops - and then swoop into the issue of the consequences of when men leave the seat up or down. Not necessarily revolving that mixed-use bathroom issue, but making the evidence and predicament as tangibly visible as possible. The manner abd delight of Ron's "realism" constantly plays in opposition to a recurrent choral refrain in the text of the "the electronic handshake" (which, of course is a manual "digital" joke and probably a comment on the futility of "virtual" contact.") I won't try to paraphrase the landscapes that enter this world - that vary from family, to dream, to air plane seat to office, to waiting for the kids to take the bus in the morning. Ron clearly takes some of his visual markers from Reznikoff and, implicitly, a Whitmanian reach into terms of covering by implication the entire country. If Johnny Appleseed set out to fill the American landscape with trees, comparatively, Ron is a farmer at harvest, a man obsessively bent on plucking images from primarily urban and now more suburban terrain within which the text provides a smart stock/harvest analysis. Yet, the gathering in VOG - in contradistinction to the early works - is divested of an inherent political optimism. The Whitman inheritance here is full of decay, partial ruins ventilated by the claustrophic presence of electric fans, lights, computer gadgets and programming languages each of which appear more likely to trump growth rather than foster it. Yes - apart from the drive of the language - I get the impression more of a man trying to accommodate the ruins rather than plough forth with optimism - Strom Thurmond considerably outlives Kathy Acker the text bemoans, albeit with a tinge of dark humor. What does that tell us (him)? So the work, it seems, becomes more Augustan(?), eighteenth century in its witness? I am not sure. But something in WOG seems to pull back from revolutionary resolve - the early belief that language will move us beyond "this". Appreciate your patience if you got this far. I mean - interestingly enough - Ron's come to an odd point in his career where his strengths and limits are being thrown up against Robert Lowell's "Skunk." Never would have Ron - I suspect - thought the day. And yet - the interest Brian Steffans' query essentially about Ron's absence of personal vulnerability and its corrolary pathos and self-examination - brings up the issue of whether or not Ron's work is actually going towards a tragic or quietundous view of the location of his future work. Is a darker curtain falling? And are the young wanting the positive textual veneer to crack and see what breaks through - and what kind of language may emerge, at the risk of engaging/confronting a possibly impending and/or overwhelming pathos. Is there the ghost of a Lowell under Silliman? I am not instantly ready to imagine. But maybe that's the new work of others, including "the young." (?) Last night "les blogistes" were out in force so be sure to check out - if you are interested - Stephanie Young and Kasey S. Mohamad's reviews, and any others. In the meantime, honor to Ron for keeping his flames on. Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:37:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: New from Jayne Cortez MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain New CD just out from Jayne Cortez on her Bola Press imprint -- The Borders of Disorderly Time -- with the Firespitters & guest artists -- a great antidote for the sadness I'm feeling at Benny Carter's death -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "War feels to me an oblique place." --Emily Dickinson Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:39:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Shoefall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Shoefall Entering is just a matter of saying-- wishing someone could let you be themselves. Your shoefall couldn't be broken by kneel, upturn, downsize. Height? Well, it drowns under arches not nearly coming as perfectly, masking a dry profusion. Recently, I've resolved, with one eye open, to try to write unlike me. That is to say, to be much more yourself. - Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:41:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: families/poetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3F1306C2.9EC18BA3@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The nuclear family is defined as mother, father, one or two kids, living apart from and making decisions independent of the extended family. This is a very recent invention and still largely limited to modern industrial societies, and it's not universal in those. The Greek, or for that matter the Roman, family is only recognizabvle if you don't look too close. Upper class Romans gave their sons to other families to be raised. In pre-industrial Europe middle- and working class male children were separated from the family at 13 and bound in apprenticeships. Girls were often let out to service even younger and were married while in their early teens. Except among the very poorest, whether among Romans or later Europeans, the couple itself had no say in the marriage. A docent at the Stonewall Jackson house piously explained that slaves were really part of bthe family. So were Odysseus' servants. The lord or owner had complete authority, and the servants/slaves were completely dependent. In a different culture, remember the haindmaids of Rachel and Leah. The wife's servants were erotic property of the husband, and the children had the same status as the other kids. It's very hard to know what affections between blood relatives or husbands and wives described in older literature are ceremonial in nature. Royal couples are almost invariably portrayed as amorous, for instance, whereas we know that that was often not the case. That matriarchy-patriarchy shift isn't taken too seriously by many scholars. There's no evidence for it, and it's probably not finally knowable one way or the other. The categories are anyway on the leaky side. There is, on the other hand, an enormous amount of research on the forms of family. Very little of it finds much commonality beyond the breeding and nurturing of children. With all the available information there's little need for a lot of idle speculation. Incidentally, I don't know how ancient Greeks would have felt about the designation Graeco-Roman, but I can tell you how I feel about Judeo-Christian. The term originally meant pre-Pauline Jerusalem Christians, who still saw themselves as Jewish, then it became converts to Christianity and Jews for Jesus. Since the 30s it's been an attempted antidote for antisemitism, on the part of Christians initially and then on the part of some Jews. For most Jews the connection is one-way only--there's precious little that's come from Chritianity into Judaism. Christ of course is revered by Moslems as a prophet, so maybe when a predominantly Christian power does something horrific enough to Moslems we'll start having Islamo-Christians as an expression of regret. Mark At 03:38 PM 7/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Mark, > >I think there were probably very strong strictures regarding who owed what >to whom >in the ancient Greek family system -- and border-line slaves like the old >man who >comes out to meet Odysseus is part of the family in the way that perhaps a >life-long worker in a Japanese company is part of the family? I don't >think that >this would rule out actual affection, though, between he and Odysseus, >especially >after a twenty year absence. There was certainly affection of some kind >between >Odysseus and his son Telemachus? As there was not between Agamemnon and >his wife, >since he had sacrificed their daughter to get a favorable wind from Diana. > >That's another world, but it is still recognizable, as the Hopi system >isn't, at >least not to me. > >The family plays a very strong role in cartoon series -- Simpsons, >Flintstones, >Jetsons, even the more contemporary Powerpuff Girls. But in poetry we >have to go >back to epics to get this strong sense of a family. The amazing web of >loyalty >oaths that are taken in by Agamemnon and Menelaus when they set about to >revenge >the abduction/betrayal of/by Helen and Paris is part of the story. Then >there is >the web of loyalties among the gods -- the Cyclops having been one of >Poseidon's >sons. Often Zeus is backing blood-kin over others in many of the epics -- >he backs >Perseus for this reason, while his wife Hera tries to get him because he's >not her >son. > >Another famous family mess from the period is Antigone with that huge >roster of >layered bonds and wills-to-power all tightly rolled up within family roles and >obligations, combined with the problematic incest of the previous >generation. Some >myth scholars see all this as the turn from Aphrodite as the central >goddess to a >more patriarchal system -- with Aphroditean times as being no links except by >desire, and the more patriarchal times -- Zeus forward -- as being the >introduction >of a higher law. > >JL Bachofen, the great myth scholar who was a friend of Nietzsche, wrote a >book on >this called Mother Right (Mutterrecht) that attempts to see a paradigm switch >TOWARD family -- at about 5000 BC. Many feminist scholars of the eighties >tried to >turn this around and praise the prior system. New books come out on this >every >year so it's all still up in the air, as you probably know. > >And you're right that it's a long way from Homer to Homer Simpson, but somehow >there is a lineage there of something important being worked out. > >The Judeo-Christian thread is totally different in origin but is now >intertwined >with the Greco-Roman thread of family bonds -- with the ancient Judaic >peoples in >the OT with many different wives, concubines, etc. The NT with St. Paul >narrows >down to one marriage bond. Is this better for women?? By law it's still >our law >in spite of Mormon resistance. Where exactly does the nuclear family >start? I >can't put my finger on it exactly, but it's before Homer Simpson, wouldn't you >agree? > >The sixties saw a reemerge of Aphroditean sensibilities, and a new upsurge of >interest in the laws of desire. I think this struggle marks our time. It's >amusing to watch it play out. The reason many started to hate Clinton is >that he >broke this pact. Nader isn't playing. I think many sympathize with Bush >in spite >of the lot of his drunken daughters because at least he appears to be >playing this >monogamy game. > >These thoughts are off the top of my head -- but this issue of what is a >family is >somehow extremely sensitive -- going back for at least two thousand years, and >maybe more. I see even Homer as trying to clarify this issue, and certainly >Sophocles. Now Matt Groening is working on refining the nuclear family, no? > >Thanks for the link to the Navajo idea of harmony in the Hillerman >novels. That's >a totally separate sensibility I would guess, and hasn't had any impact on >America >outside of that tribe. The Hopi, too, would be completely separate. It's >amazing >that their systems would survive. The matrilineal is what the Aphroditean >myth >scholars like Gimbutas want to bring back -- with desire as the only >law. I wonder >how much the Hopi can be compared to ancient Cretan societies, or if it can be >done. > >Friendship isn't like family in that there are no obligations, and friends >can be >thrown to one side. Family, can't, at least not without massive psychic >disruption. Am I right? > >-- Kirby Olson At 03:38 PM 7/14/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: >Hi Mark, > >I think there were probably very strong strictures regarding who owed what >to whom >in the ancient Greek family system -- and border-line slaves like the old >man who >comes out to meet Odysseus is part of the family in the way that perhaps a >life-long worker in a Japanese company is part of the family? I don't >think that >this would rule out actual affection, though, between he and Odysseus, >especially >after a twenty year absence. There was certainly affection of some kind >between >Odysseus and his son Telemachus? As there was not between Agamemnon and >his wife, >since he had sacrificed their daughter to get a favorable wind from Diana. > >That's another world, but it is still recognizable, as the Hopi system >isn't, at >least not to me. > >The family plays a very strong role in cartoon series -- Simpsons, >Flintstones, >Jetsons, even the more contemporary Powerpuff Girls. But in poetry we >have to go >back to epics to get this strong sense of a family. The amazing web of >loyalty >oaths that are taken in by Agamemnon and Menelaus when they set about to >revenge >the abduction/betrayal of/by Helen and Paris is part of the story. Then >there is >the web of loyalties among the gods -- the Cyclops having been one of >Poseidon's >sons. Often Zeus is backing blood-kin over others in many of the epics -- >he backs >Perseus for this reason, while his wife Hera tries to get him because he's >not her >son. > >Another famous family mess from the period is Antigone with that huge >roster of >layered bonds and wills-to-power all tightly rolled up within family roles and >obligations, combined with the problematic incest of the previous >generation. Some >myth scholars see all this as the turn from Aphrodite as the central >goddess to a >more patriarchal system -- with Aphroditean times as being no links except by >desire, and the more patriarchal times -- Zeus forward -- as being the >introduction >of a higher law. > >JL Bachofen, the great myth scholar who was a friend of Nietzsche, wrote a >book on >this called Mother Right (Mutterrecht) that attempts to see a paradigm switch >TOWARD family -- at about 5000 BC. Many feminist scholars of the eighties >tried to >turn this around and praise the prior system. New books come out on this >every >year so it's all still up in the air, as you probably know. > >And you're right that it's a long way from Homer to Homer Simpson, but somehow >there is a lineage there of something important being worked out. > >The Judeo-Christian thread is totally different in origin but is now >intertwined >with the Greco-Roman thread of family bonds -- with the ancient Judaic >peoples in >the OT with many different wives, concubines, etc. The NT with St. Paul >narrows >down to one marriage bond. Is this better for women?? By law it's still >our law >in spite of Mormon resistance. Where exactly does the nuclear family >start? I >can't put my finger on it exactly, but it's before Homer Simpson, wouldn't you >agree? > >The sixties saw a reemerge of Aphroditean sensibilities, and a new upsurge of >interest in the laws of desire. I think this struggle marks our time. It's >amusing to watch it play out. The reason many started to hate Clinton is >that he >broke this pact. Nader isn't playing. I think many sympathize with Bush >in spite >of the lot of his drunken daughters because at least he appears to be >playing this >monogamy game. > >These thoughts are off the top of my head -- but this issue of what is a >family is >somehow extremely sensitive -- going back for at least two thousand years, and >maybe more. I see even Homer as trying to clarify this issue, and certainly >Sophocles. Now Matt Groening is working on refining the nuclear family, no? > >Thanks for the link to the Navajo idea of harmony in the Hillerman >novels. That's >a totally separate sensibility I would guess, and hasn't had any impact on >America >outside of that tribe. The Hopi, too, would be completely separate. It's >amazing >that their systems would survive. The matrilineal is what the Aphroditean >myth >scholars like Gimbutas want to bring back -- with desire as the only >law. I wonder >how much the Hopi can be compared to ancient Cretan societies, or if it can be >done. > >Friendship isn't like family in that there are no obligations, and friends >can be >thrown to one side. Family, can't, at least not without massive psychic >disruption. Am I right? > >-- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:35:42 -0400 Reply-To: men2@columbia.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss Subject: ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit a poor attempt... Interviewing with the NSA Ghazal I seriously thought the interviewer might be an alien: when he asked: “do you plan to marry your enemy alien?” He and I were almost an expired item But he was “mon Stephane,” not a dangerous alien “And the others?” the interviewer asked watching the wires and bands which ran all over me, an alien a cyborg, mechanical, electrical, easy to judge unlike the hands of an unknowable alien “You must list them,” he said, every one that you fraternized “I had friends who were tan, they weren’t googly-eyed aliens” After hours, they released me, and I knew they wouldn’t hire me good riddance! I ran from these androids and aliens I couldn’t forget that they asked about thoughts not just deeds I had planned but mere whisperings of the alien and we’re none of us pure, and I don’t like the president am I next when they come to ban all the aliens? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:38:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: question about motherhood book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hey! she and her husband dan were students of my father's back in the early 1970s. At 5:06 PM +0930 7/11/03, Ken Bolton wrote: >The only newish one I know is Sara Blaffer Hrdy's one: Mother Nature >- maternal instincts & the female of the species. Chatto & Windus. > >Cheers >Ken Bolton -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:51:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: axiswallvoidwallabyss.exe&#kill; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII axiswallvoidwallabyss.exe&#kill; To .exe = execute it. begin = execute it. To execute it. To begin program it. To begin an .exe To begin a program = begin a program .exe execute a program .exe = it. program .exe = execute end = terminate it. To terminate a program .exe = kill abort a program. To or a program. To kill abort program. To kill or program. kill or abort a delete delete a program. n If the program protects itself. the program protects itself. If it is itself. If the program is ninsistent: If the program is if the program is insistent: protects insistent: if the program itself. if the program protects Programmed to remain. may be to remain. A program may be to remain. A program may programmed A program may be to program may be programmed to remain. may be programmed to remain. This choice of the program. not the program. This is not choice This is not the of is not the choice of the program. The program has no choice. has no choice. The program no choice. The program has choice. The program has no choice. given The program may be which be given a choice cannot be the choice. The program take choice. The program cannot choose; program cannot take the produce choice; the program may display. may or may not display. Willingly calls upon the program. unwillingly, the program. Willingly or user Willingly or unwillingly, the calls or unwillingly, the user upon unwillingly, the user calls calling destiny and teleology. The program is destiny the program is its destiny and program is its destiny and teleology. is its destiny and teleology: To begin a program .exe = execute it. To end a program .exe = terminate it. To kill or abort a program. To delete a program. If the program is insistent: if the program protects itself. A program may be programmed to remain. This is not the choice of the program. The program has no choice. The program may be given a choice which is not the choice of the program. The program cannot take the choice; the program may produce the choice. The program may or may not display. Willingly or unwillingly, the user calls upon the program. The calling of the program is its destiny and teleology. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:58:00 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: families/poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark Weiss and others interested in families/poetry: Mark appears to think the idea of the family is historical rather than inherent or as a given, and I would have to agree that his tight definition of the family as an autonomous unit is recent. However, Mark, I also feel that you are arguing that the family is highly limiting and in some way that you have defined it as injurious and that you are implicitly proposing an alternative. You seem to think the Hopi method is an improvement. Is that your choice? Women can simply put your things out, and that's it? I'm just curious if you can think of a better, um, unit? A network of pals? Who is taking care of the children in this case? In the Hopi system, if the woman puts you out, what happens to the kids? Are the children held in common? How would this work in the suburbs? Have you thought of a better system of some kind? If we were to totally scrap the nuclear family, how would you raise children in some better way? Are you arguing that a matrilineal system is somehow better? How do you see this working? I want to get back to a basic question here. The stuff about matriarchal/patriarchal, and its historicity is unquestionably questionable, but as myths they continue to operate -- within certain neo-pagan feminist communities they inspire ideas of community whether they are based on a real past community or not. And the patriarchal system continues to run many families -- you actually get conservative Christians who argue that the father should make every decision in a family. Both of these systems are somewhat grotesque to me. The nuclear family is all I was given as a model. The sixties tried communes, but I don't think any of these are still an inspiration to younger people, and certainly not to me. I like privacy. So do most people, I suspect. So most people are going to continue living in the nuclear family. But have you thought out an alternative? I am almost certainly lacking in imagination on this! Fourier, anyone? For all his reading of Fourier, to my knowledge Andre Breton remained a nuclear family man, with occasional forays into the realm of prostitution (then still legal in France, but now I believe against the law although still practiced). Could anyone else respond: what is the best vehicle now for the transmission of love and protection of the children of said love for, um, poets? Ideas? I've heard in San Francisco there are "marriages" of up to dozens of people, and they rotate beds in a counter clockwise motion -- women going one way and men in the other. They're not aiming at children, however, in the one commune I read about that practices this, and after twenty years of it, no tots. Somehow I think we have to include tots in the equation, or else it's not a family -- but the tots can be adopted -- they don't have to be biological children of the elders. Breton's one child was left for years at a time to other people, as I recall, for instance, when he went to Mexico to meet Trotsky. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:01:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" Comments: To: Louis Cabri Comments: cc: ksilem@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Just some comments on what Loius had written about Ron's poem a few days back. He is comment on the following from NON: Titles are often misleading, subtitles seldom are. Checking out the driver in the next car through my rear view mirror at a stop light (one never sees the lower body), thin ebony man with a long white beard, tricolor rasta cap, high sharp cheekbones that cause the eyes to recede. I decide he's a gentle person. Rolls of roofing turned upright, black cylinders atop the gravel. There comes a moment whenever I read my poem when it is apparent it is terrible I'm a fraud, no one would ever choose to hear or to read this, but then this moment of panic passes. (N/O 60) LC writes: "When you read the sentences as discreet units, it's pretty straight-forwardly denotational. But, reading the gaps between these sentences render the sentences completely wild, unpredicted (since the text is so overdetermined with details, it would be impossible to stay in control of their interconnections), unconscious even. Here Silliman reads the "subtitle" of the guy in the car behind him, whose "title" refers to his physical description: "thin ebony man," etc. So, the guy is black, and is advancing on the white narrator, but the "advance" (i.e. suddenly we are no longer in a world of pure, objective-seeming denotation!) is benign ("he's a gentle person"): one can go allegorical here. This "advance" is benign probably because the man is old (eyes receding somewhat) just like the narrator admits of himself (and this ties again to the opening motif of old form). Now the next juxtaposition: how does one account for it? It has to be accounted for. The juxtaposition are not themselves arbitrary: the stanzas/sentences are. The skin color of the older gentleman who is in a car behind the narrator-driver now becomes (and at the same time importantly does _not_ become) the black color of roofing tiles!!? This image's social evaluation is very ambiguous. It is work-to-be-done, of _new_ roofing and of refurbishing - but, is it regentrification, or evidence of upward mobility (whose?), or completely unrelated to housing and instead about industrial expansion (we don't know the narrator's location)? This image becomes the next "title," and its "subtitle" is the following sentence, which seems to carry the emotions the narrator experiences at the sight of the roofing material: self-doubt about his own work-to-be-done as poet. The syntactic wonkiness of the middle phrases of this sentence ("whenever / I read my poem when / it is apparent / it is terrible") mirrors its subject, self-doubt." It almost seems to me that Ron went back and changed the first "black" to "ebony" in order not to have the words appear twice in two successive sentences. If we were to read this as a social text the way you would choose (your reading reflects some elements of Jeff Derksen's idea of "rearticulation" as a development of the new sentence), then you would have to read the word "Ebony" (capital "e") in the use of the word -- i.e. this guy has somehting to do with the magazine. The use of "ebony" just stuck out at me here as more a matter of creating a euphemism rather than a stylistic flourish, since there's so little here that represents an interest in stylistic flourishes of this sort -- it's all kind of "Man pounds rice" language. Just like the "the landlord" and "a dog" in other parts of the poem. (Ron's turn to a belle-lettrist tone on his blog is curious to me for this very reason -- he never seemed to have an interest in elements of what might be called "fancy" in his prose or even poetry, but all of a sudden there is this range of affects.) When nouns and noun phrases get pared down like this they can often, ironically, become quite riddled with symbolism, and indeed your reading of this slab of NON points to all sorts of correspondences between the sentences and stanzas that are nearly as intricate as what is often said to occur in "Skunk Hour" (or Eliot's Four Quartets, whose language is nearly devoid of adjectives that serve a visual purpose). I've never been much of a symbol guy myself -- the thing is quite often the thing to me, so if the use of the word "ebony" doesn't let me get closer to what it is Ron is seeing -- and my claim here is that he is seeing *less* because he's had to use a quick replacement word to get away from using "black" twice (merely my suspicion, of course) -- well, I guess I just don't see how "ebony" improves upon what it is we're seeing here. Take "Fairy decorator" as a contrast -- I never read this as a reference to the decorator's sexuality but I see it now, I always just heard "fairy godmother" and assumed it was a comment on the privileged status of those for whom all things appear to be gifts -- despite the semantic slippage Louis writes about elsewhere, I somehow *see* this a whole lot more. Maybe it's just synaesthesia -- I have a tendency to see color in a lot of phrasing that is technically "colorless". I'm also, like Jeffrey (?), not sure how cheeks make the eyes recede, though I understand this as a painterly flourish -- and unspoken "as if." (Ron often suggested in early interviews that his new sentence prose was an attempt to work into the space of a novel, so I wonder why he doesn't encourage some more novelistic traits in his writing -- wouldn't Nabokov have really tried to nail this visual detail?) But the following observation from WCW which just drops out of the sky really impresses me: (the grapes still hanging to the vines along the nearby Concordia Halle like broken teeth in the head of an old man) The very frailty of these words hanging in the stanza (an isolated by me here) suggest these grapes also. Anyway, curiously, your reading of this stanza goes up against what I thought were some of the prinicples of the New Sentence, which is that the sentences were paratactic and would not be subsumed under a montage type of functionality -- we see the titles, the titles appear on the cab, the man is black, the tiles are black, etc... -- but rather thwarted narrative and syllogistic connections. The line "I decide he's a gentle person." seems to suggest that the poet wants us to play with a cause-and-effect determination here, a game I like. So I guess the new sentence doesn't have to be entirely "paratactic" (I think it works best when there is wavering), but it seems to me that if such an overdtermined matrix of social meanings as you present here were underlying such passages of the New Sentence, then rather than the author permitting a play of meanings for the reader in his or her poem, asking the reader to be creative, the writer is merely making it much harder to see this matrix of meanings by not elaborating the connex. I don't think this passage is so carefully written as to suggest that -- connections are happy to occur, but you see some counter-charges within the mass -- "ebony" slipping in to show that he author is aware of lexical repeats -- the phrase "Titles are often misleading, subtitles seldom are" seems vague to me (so "President" is misleading because because the person is not actually presiding, but they "Hey you jerk!" under a flurry of Spanish curses is accurate?) -- etc. I like the line about the doubt and the way it comes in after all of this detail from "outside" -- ok, I know it sounds like I'm just harshing on Ron's poetry but it's really just this poem and how it relates to his ideas, especially what he's writing these days. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:04:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for debunking the myth, Alan. At least somewhere in the world, someone can write a line that rhymes with orange. I'm having a hard time imagining the subject, though. So, instead of using the inverted partial title of Mingus's song, we can phrase it directly, and rhyme in the sentiment the discussion by this time deserves : The color of her dress was orange. She wore it each night at the morange, It didn't stink the way you'd think. She let it air out on the door-hinge. Now that I've piled this particular remnant of the dead horse onto the compost heap, as opposd to the morange, I'm going to listen to Mingus play the real thing. Vernon (very recently retired from limerick rhyming) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: Re: orange > However there is a word which rhymes with 'orange' - it's 'morange' used > in the midlands in England - > > "Compost Heaps and Moranges > > Several people have asked me to define the difference between a compost > heap and a morange. > > A compost heap is an organised affair based on well-researched scientific > principles. The aim of a compost heap is to rot organic material down in > such a way that internal heat destroys most weed seeds while retaining the > nutriments plants have taken from soil and air. Ideally all the material > needed for the creation of a compost heap should be added at the time of > its creation in several layers of different consistencies. Some of those > layers may consist of kitchen waste and even animal remains if the heap > can be protected from foxes and rats. The addition of saved buckets of > urine will hasten the rotting process. A compost heap should be covered to > retain heat. > > A morange is a much simpler affair. It consists solely of weeds, ideally > added in layers, leaving time between each layer for rooted weeds to dry > out. A morange will not kill off weed seeds. In the best moranges there > should be no weeds that have reached flowering stage." > > This is from > http://www.landofbrokenpromises.co.uk/garden/archives/2000_07/july.htm > > Here is more from the writer - Margaret Penfold - who I stayed with in > Nottingham while speaking at Incubation - > > "The English word "morange" you used to illustrate a dialect word, is the > only one I know of in English, to describe the casual heaps of weeds left > to decay in situ for recycling. Any good gardener will tell you this is > certainly not a compost heap, so I would suggest that 'morange' is not a > dialect word but a main stream word even if it has been woefully neglected > by the dictionaries. > > And now I need to close down my computer and get myself into holiday mood > from which I will return a septuagenarian." > > - She has an amazing garden by the way - Alan > > > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Vernon Frazer wrote: > > > It's pronounced "oringe" in New England. > > > > Vernon > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ryan fitzpatrick" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:02 AM > > Subject: Re: orange > > > > > > > maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the people i've > > > met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. > > > > > > interesting to note those differences in dialect though > > > > > > ryan > > > > > > > > > >From: sylvester pollet > > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > >Subject: orange > > > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > > > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is > > > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > > > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > > > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > > > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > > > >> > > > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > > > >> > > > >>ryan > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > finger sondheim@panix.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:22:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: A MUST SEE: JAAP BLONK! NYC Performances Comments: To: jani@umn.edu, edcohen@rci.rutgers.edu, ilivingston@notes.cc.sunysb.edu, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: jablonk@planet.nl Mon Jul 14 16:05:38 2003 >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-c5.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] smtp07.wxs.nl #+CU+OF (A,-) >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: > >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:05:58 +0100 >From: Jaap Blonk >Subject: NYC Performances >To: Jaap Blonk > >Hi all over there, > >three solo performances by Jaap Blonk in New York, see below. > >Best wishes, >Jaap. >http://www.jaapblonk.com/ > > >Thu July 17, 7 pm, $5 >Sound Poetry Performance >The Bowery Poetry Club >308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's >F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 > > >Fri July 18, 7 pm, $5 >Different Sound Poetry Performance, double bill with Edwin Torres >(http://www.brainlingo.com/) >The Bowery Poetry Club >308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's >F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 > > >Sat July 19, 8pm, $10 >Vocal improvisations >Tonic > >Tonic is located at 107 Norfolk Street between Delancey and Rivington >Streets in Manhattan's Lower East Side. > >By Train >You can take the F train to Delancey Street or the J/M/Z trains to Essex >Street. Once you exit the station walk east (towards the Williamsburg >bridge) on Delancey Street and take your first left onto Norfolk. You will >see Tonic about half up the block on your left. > >Parking >Parking is sometimes available on Norfolk Street. There is also a municipal >parking garage right around the corner on Essex Street between Delancey and >Rivington. -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:21:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: weeping rivet - release party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerah kirby" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:42 PM Subject: Press Release: 7/26 Friends, Romans, Greco-Romans, All-Star Wrestlers of all shades, We are pleased to announce that a dear friend of ours has offered a space for us to use. So we have a new date for our RIB3 release party. Better late than never, is what we say. What: Newly re-christened Weeping Rivet Press proudly presents their 3rd issue of Raised in a Barn literary magazine. When: 7pm Saturday July 26th, Anno Do-mini-me 2003. Where: NEST Artspace, in DUMBO, Brooklyn. 68 Washington St., but the entrance is on the southeast corner of Front and Washington streets (diagonally opposite peas'n' pickles deli). F train to York St. or A/C to High St. All are invited, all are welcome. Ta-ta for now, Jerah Kirby for Weeping Rivet Press http://homepages.nyu.edu/~mk106/weeping.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Fwd: NYC Performances by Dutch sound-poet/musician Jaap Blonk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" New Yorkers and/or anyone who'll be in the area at the end of the week should definitely try to make it to one of Jaap's gigs. He draws on influences from free improvised music and sound poetry (in poetry contexts, he often performs his own works AND some classics from the field) & he's a great performer and a real goods guy. With three chances to see/hear him, all y'all should check him out. Bests, Herb >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:05:58 +0100 >From: Jaap Blonk >Subject: NYC Performances >To: Jaap Blonk > >Hi all over there, > >three solo performances by Jaap Blonk in New York, see below. > >Best wishes, >Jaap. >http://www.jaapblonk.com/ > > >Thu July 17, 7 pm, $5 >Sound Poetry Performance >The Bowery Poetry Club >308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's >F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 > > >Fri July 18, 7 pm, $5 >Different Sound Poetry Performance, double bill with Edwin Torres >(http://www.brainlingo.com/) >The Bowery Poetry Club >308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's >F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 > > >Sat July 19, 8pm, $10 >Vocal improvisations >Tonic > >Tonic is located at 107 Norfolk Street between Delancey and Rivington >Streets in Manhattan's Lower East Side. > >By Train >You can take the F train to Delancey Street or the J/M/Z trains to Essex >Street. Once you exit the station walk east (towards the Williamsburg >bridge) on Delancey Street and take your first left onto Norfolk. You will >see Tonic about half up the block on your left. > >Parking >Parking is sometimes available on Norfolk Street. There is also a municipal >parking garage right around the corner on Essex Street between Delancey and >Rivington. > -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:20:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: families/poetry Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3F132768.B9049086@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It's not my definition, it's a standard definition of a particular kind of family. And I made no argument in favor of or against any kind of family arrangement, and certainly not the hopi. Family arrangements tend to be adaptive to their circumstances within the possibilities offered by the given cultures, and they tend to do a reasonably good job of rearing children to be members of their societies. If one imagined a neutral social context, one that would potentially support any of the possibilities humans have generated or will generate, then one would notice advantages and disadvantages in each. But no such context is possible. Matrilineal means descent from the mother and nothing more. It's a system of inheritance and family and clan identity. Jews are Jews if their mothers were Jewish, and the child of the Japanese empress is presumed to be the child of the emperor. It doesn't have any necessary connection to governance within the family and beyond, and it's not synonymous with matriarchy (ask the Japanese empress). Why do certain groups of women need the validation of a presumed neolithic social model, even if that involves distorting the past? (we know the answer for fundamentalist christians for their version of patriarchy--it's in the book). Suppose they were inventing something as novel as the nuclear family, and history be damned? You might want to read some serious anthropology or sociology. You'd be amazed at the range of possibilities. Mark At 05:58 PM 7/14/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: >Mark Weiss and others interested in families/poetry: > >Mark appears to think the idea of the family is historical rather than >inherent or >as a given, and I would have to agree that his tight definition of the >family as an >autonomous unit is recent. However, Mark, I also feel that you are >arguing that >the family is highly limiting and in some way that you have defined it as >injurious >and that you are implicitly proposing an alternative. You seem to think >the Hopi >method is an improvement. Is that your choice? Women can simply put your >things >out, and that's it? > >I'm just curious if you can think of a better, um, unit? A network of >pals? Who >is taking care of the children in this case? In the Hopi system, if the >woman puts >you out, what happens to the kids? Are the children held in common? How >would >this work in the suburbs? Have you thought of a better system of some >kind? If we >were to totally scrap the nuclear family, how would you raise children in some >better way? > >Are you arguing that a matrilineal system is somehow better? How do you >see this >working? I want to get back to a basic question here. The stuff about >matriarchal/patriarchal, and its historicity is unquestionably >questionable, but as >myths they continue to operate -- within certain neo-pagan feminist >communities >they inspire ideas of community whether they are based on a real past >community or >not. And the patriarchal system continues to run many families -- you >actually get >conservative Christians who argue that the father should make every >decision in a >family. Both of these systems are somewhat grotesque to me. The nuclear >family is >all I was given as a model. The sixties tried communes, but I don't think >any of >these are still an inspiration to younger people, and certainly not to >me. I like >privacy. So do most people, I suspect. So most people are going to >continue living >in the nuclear family. But have you thought out an alternative? I am almost >certainly lacking in imagination on this! Fourier, anyone? For all his >reading of >Fourier, to my knowledge Andre Breton remained a nuclear family man, with >occasional forays into the realm of prostitution (then still legal in >France, but >now I believe against the law although still practiced). Could anyone else >respond: what is the best vehicle now for the transmission of love and >protection >of the children of said love for, um, poets? Ideas? I've heard in San >Francisco >there are "marriages" of up to dozens of people, and they rotate beds in a >counter >clockwise motion -- women going one way and men in the other. They're not >aiming >at children, however, in the one commune I read about that practices this, and >after twenty years of it, no tots. Somehow I think we have to include >tots in the >equation, or else it's not a family -- but the tots can be adopted -- they >don't >have to be biological children of the elders. Breton's one child was left for >years at a time to other people, as I recall, for instance, when he went >to Mexico >to meet Trotsky. > >-- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:39:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Salt Publishing: New titles for July 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I should like the Peter Middleton book.How do we arrange payment? David Bromige -----Original Message----- From: Chris Hamilton-Emery To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, July 13, 2003 8:58 AM Subject: Salt Publishing: New titles for July 2003 >S A L T P U B L I S H I N G >New books for July 2003 > > >NORTH AMERICA > > CATH DALY > "DaDaDa" > Salt Modern Poets > 1876857951 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857951.htm > > AARON MCCOLLOUGH > "Double Venus" > Salt Modern Poets > 1844710033 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710033.htm > > ETHAN PAQUIN > "Accumulus" > Salt Modern Poets > 1844710157 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710157.htm > > >EUROPE > > ANDREW DUNCAN > "The Failure of Conservatism in Modern British Poetry" > Salt Studies in Contemporary Poetry > 1876857579 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sscp/1876857579.htm > > PETER MIDDLETON > "Aftermath" > Salt Modern Poets > 1876857633 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857633.htm > > JOHN WILKINSON > "Contrivances" > Salt Modern Poets > 1876857609 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857609.htm > > >AUSTRALASIA > > MIKE BRENNAN > "The Imageless World" > Salt Modern Poets > 184471005X > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/184471005X.htm > > DANIEL KEENE > "Terminus and Other Plays" > Salt Modern Drama > 1876857188 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smd/1876857188.htm > > CATH KENNEALY > "All Day, All Night" > Salt Modern Poets > 1876857099 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857099.htm > > JOHN KINSELLA (Ed.) > "Salt Volume 17 Issue 1" > Salt International Journal of Poetry and Poetics > 1844710068 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/journals/1844710068.htm > > JOHN KINSELLA & TRACY RYAN > "Conspiracies" > Salt Modern Fiction > 1844710181 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/smf/1844710181.htm > > MARK PIRIE > "Gallery: A Selection" > Salt Modern Poets > 1876857242 > http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857242.htm > > >If you wish to be removed from future titles announcements, please reply to >this email with remove in the subject line. > > >Salt Publishing >http://www.saltpublishing.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:35:06 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: FW: Pres MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joe, You might say briefly why you and your houseguests reached your consenus on Lowell and the fairy decorator and so quickly, given that other contributors had reached different conclusions and given their reasons. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Safdie Joseph [mailto:Joseph.Safdie@LWTC.CTC.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2003 7:03 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: FW: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry L essig Herb, Your post suggests that you may not understand that bloggers are a protected species under the Environmental Poetics Agency. One mustn't criticize such practice in any way, especially on a listserv. By the way, kids, that discussion about "Skunk Hour" was something totally unsuspected on the Buff List, and, thus, exemplary. It also made me take out the old Farrar, Strauss and Giraux paperback of "Life Studies"/"For the Union Dead" (1964, $2.25) and read the poem to my houseguests, Joanne Kyger and Donald Guravich, famed summer instructors at Naropa. The discussion reached a quick consensus that Lowell was pretty clearly engaging in scurrilous (but not for the time) anti-gay commentary, much as the recently revealed Truman diaries engaged in scurrilous (but not for the time?) anti-Jewish commentary. Joe Safdie -----Original Message----- From: Herb Levy To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: 7/14/03 10:42 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pres. candidate Howard Dean will "guest blog" for Larry Lessig Looking at the prospect seriously, given the amount of deleted, unclear, mistyped, re-edited, re-entered, misunderstood, and otherwise screwed up blog entries and exchanges among bloggers in the poetry world (people for whom verbal expression is supposed to be extremely important, right?), I'm not sure that I'd want a president who spent that much of that kind of time online. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:31:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: A B C D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A B C D It's a good rul e of thumb to c reate cognitive "homes" for fu nctionality; us e the medium an d their concept ual relationshi ps (that is a v ery open ended parameter -- co ntext specific business/user a nalysis should drive the desig n of the top do wn navigation t o do the work f or you It's a g ood rule of thu mb to create co gnitive "homes" for functional ity), to sales (see similar hu bs and their co ncerning contex t and relevance of navigation - the user conc eptual relation ships (that is a very open end ed parameter -- context specif ic business/use r analysis shou ld drive the de sign of the top down navigatio n to do the wor k for you It's a good rule of thumb to create cognitive "hom es" for functio nality), to sal es (see similar hubs and their conceptual rel ationships (tha t is a very ope n ended paramet er -- context s pecific busines s/user analysis should drive t he design) when developing a s ite structure & navigation. So to answer your question, gene rally speaking, stay away from creating repet itive content-s imilar's), etc. 3) Bottom up n avigation - app ears throughout the interactiv e system at rel evance of navig ation to such o bjects. I would begin by creat ing repetitive content, yet al low for the des ign of multiple paths of navig ation - appears throughout the interactive sy stem at relevan ce of navigatio n to do the wor k for you It's a good rule of the content, ye t allow for the design of mult iple paths of n avigation to su ch objects. I w ould begin by c reating numerou s content, yet allow for the d esign of multip le paths of nav igation schema. Once my groupi ngs were establ ished with the user can find i nformation with out needing to know where it a ctually resides , yet in this p articular retur n process, obje cts. I would be gin by creating numerous conte nt-similar hubs and their conc eptual relation ships (that is a very open end ed parameter -- context and re levant touch po ints within var ious task flows , improving eve rything from "s tickiness" (cro ss pollination of content or f unctionality; u se the medium a nd their concer ning context sp ecific business /user analysis should drive th e design) when developing a si te structure & navigation sche ma. Once my gro upings were est ablished with t he user can fin d information: 1) Top down nav igation to do t he work for you It's a good ru le of thumb to create cognitiv e "homes" for f unctionality; u se the medium a nd their concep tual relationsh ips (that is a very open ended parameter -- c ontext specific business/user analysis should drive the desi gning access to the design of the content-sim ilar hubs and t he affordance o f thumb to crea te cognitive "h omes" for funct ionality; use t he medium and t heir conceptual relationships (that is a very open ended par ameter -- conte xt specific bus iness/user anal ysis should dri ve the designin g access to the design) when d eveloping a sit e structure & n avigation. So t o answer your q uestion, genera lly speaking, s tay away from c reating repetit ive content are a. 2) Contextua l navigation to do the work fo r you It's a go od rule of thum b to create cog nitive "homes" for functionali ty or content, yet allow for t he design of mu ltiple paths of navigation to such object rec all will be rei nforced in rega rds to the grou ped information : 1) Top down n avigation - app ears throughout the interactiv e system at rel evant touch poi nts within vari ous task flows, improving ever ything from "st ickiness" (cros s pollination o f content-simil ar hubs and the ir concerning c ontext and rele vant touch poin ts within vario us task flows, improving every thing from "sti ckiness" (cross pollination of content, yet a llow for the de sign of multipl e paths of navi gation - appear s throughout th e interactive s ystem at releva nce of the top down navigation - the user con cerning context and relevance of navigation s chema. Once my groupings were established wit h the user can find informatio n without needi ng to know wher e it actually r esides, yet in this particular return process , object recall can be establi shed, I'd exerc ise three prima ry approaches f or design of th e content or fu nctionality or content, yet al low for the des ign of multiple paths of navig ation - visual in nature, so a high degree of recall can be established, I' d exercise thre e primary appro aches for desig ning access to the grouped inf ormation: 1) To p down navigati on to such obje ct recall can b e established, I'd exercise th ree primary app roaches for des ign) when devel oping a site st ructure & navig ation - appears throughout the interactive sy stem at relevan ce of the top d own navigation schema. Once my groupings were established wi th the user can find informati on: 1) Top down navigation. So to answer your question, gene rally speaking, stay away from creating numer ous content are a. 2) Contextua l navigation sc hema. Once my g roupings were e stablished, I'd exercise three primary approa ches for design ing access to t he grouped info rmation without needing to kno w where it actu ally resides, y et in this part icular return p rocess, objects . I would begin by creating re petitive conten t/func ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:43:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Poetry Posse Needed for Bonds at Shea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey all, On Wed Aug. 13, the SF Giants will be playing at the NY Mets, 710pm start. It's also Italian night, with music and the like from Italy. If u bring a Pepsi product with u and wait in line at the Pepsi Picnic Area u get in free. (I'm on the dole, so I'll be able to get down there early for those of u still gainfully employed.) So far, Anastasios Kozaitis and me are coming. Lets make it a poetry-posse people, ok? Backchannel. as ever, David --------- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:11:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: new work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New Work http://www.asondheim.org/portal/word.exe http://www.asondheim.org/portal/word2.exe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:11:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Spawn\Resentiment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Spawn\Resentiment Sh.e ke k.am.e be b..! h! h.r.e be b.kauz.e ee e.vrybod.! k! k.now.z az a.bou.t mt m.!ke.z pz p.lasz.. ;. ;.-) Katal!.n gn g.o.t bt b.oote.d od o.u.t ot o..v hv h..r pr p.arent.z hz h.ouz.e be b.kauz.e se s.h.e =e =. dat!n.g tg t.zome loz.r br b.oyphr!end.. o. o..v kv k.ourz.e se s.h.e ke k.ouldn.t zt z.ta.! a! a..t dt d.z.e be b.oyphr!end.z hz h.ouz.e be b./k h.e =e =. .a da d.ea.d bd b.ea.t +t +. l!ve.z fz f.ro.m km k.ouk.h 2h 2. koukh.. h. h..e me m.uz.t bt b. hun.g lg l.!k.e ae a. horz.e 4e 4. th.= g= g.!r.l 2l 2. p!-.k hk h.!.m om o.v.r hr h..r pr p.arentz....+ a+ a. ROOV.! a! a.n.! h! h.oot, sh.e ke k.am.e be b..! h! h.r.e be b.kauz.e ee e.vrybod.! k! k.now.z az a.bou.t mt m.!ke.z pz p.lasz.. ;. ;.-.) d) d.ze.! j! j.uzt don.t kt k.no.u du d.z.e fe f.u.l dl d.eta!l.z uz u.nt!.l dl d.z.e ke k.he-.k ok o.u.t dt d.z.e pe p.lasz.. a. a.z.Z 4Z 4. kash bab!., n, n..o 0o 0..1 z1 z.tay.z 4z 4. free! zpawn 3 sh.e ke k.am.e be b..! h! h.r.e be b.kauz.e ee e.vrybod.! k! k.now.z az a.bou.t mt m.!ke.z pz p.lasz.. ;. ;.-) ================================================================== .2 b2 b. remove.d fd f.ro.m om o.u.r "r ".!.n hn h.ouze." m" m.a!l!n.g lg l.!z.t pt p.leaz.e ke k.l!-.k hk h.re: Ent.r yr y.ou.r er e.-ma!.l al a.ddrezZ .+ u+ u. u!.l al a.utomat!kal.! b! b. remove.d fd f.ro.m fm f.utur.e me m.a!l!ngz.. . .Ons.z rz r.emove.d yd y.ou.r er e.-ma!l addrez.Z =Z =. prmanentl.! b! b.la-kl!zte.d +d +. u!.l nl n.ev.r rr r.eze!v.e ae a.nodz.r mr m.a!l!ng. .U hU h.av.e re r.eze!ve.d td t.h.= e= e.ma!.l bl b..! e! e.!dz.r rr r.ekuezt!n.g mg m.or.e !e !.n4maz!on o.n 0n 0..1 o1 o..v ov o.u.r or o.pportun!t!e.z oz o..r tr t.zome0.1 m1 m.a.! h! h.av.e ue u.ze.d yd y.ou.r er e.ma!.l al a.ddrezZ. !.v uv u. reze!ve.d td t.h.= e= e.ma!.l !l !..n rn r.ror., p, p.leaz.e ae a.kzep.t ot o.u.r ar a.polog!ez. (An.! a! a.ttempt.z 2z 2. d!zrup.t dt d.z.e re r.emov.l el e.ma!.l al a.ddrez.Z eZ e.tk.., u, u.!.l nl n.o.t at a.lo.u uu u..z 2z 2. .b ab a.bl.e 2e 2. retr!ev.e +e +. prozez.Z dZ d.z.e re r.emove rekueztz.) =================================================================== Katal!.n Hn H.!-kz ! ..! g! g. jgozkmwgkrphgw.! k! k..x !x !.kxdkxkweevgh!kum.l rl r. bkphkktuwv kxl!flp kv!vn.m em e. __ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:07:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" Comments: cc: "K. Silem Mohammad" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Brian, It seems you hold a lot of stock in an idea's ability to generate a 'kind' of writing or a writing practice. To hold such high stock makes sense to me only in the current context of writing that uses programmatic - as in, pre-determined - forms. But, in the context of The Alphabet, begun in the early 80s, or of any of the writing associated with Language poetry from Ron's generation, well, how much programmatic form is there? I don't think much. You might say David Bromige's Red Hats and Bob Perelman's a.k.a. were attempts to write from an idea of the new sentence (and you might like these books precisely for this reason). If by "novelistic" you mean a narrative unfolding through linear time, then there is plenty of that at the level of the line, to me, in for instance the passage from Non that we've been discussing. One example: Checking out the driver in the next car through my rear view mirror The colloquial expression "checking out" can go many ways, and its direction is only specified after the first comma (which works like a colon) in the sentence, for the driver turns out to be: thin ebony man with a long white beard, tricolor rasta cap, Three good reasons why the narrator will decide that this person is "gentle". In this sentence, one literally watches desire undergo a transformation. First, it has no object at all, and as such is, as the phrase suggests ("checking / out"), optimistic about prospects. But then, the subject's desire passes through a heavily-coded pop-cultural icon - the read view mirror! Hitcock is apropos. Affect switches from optimism to apprehension. Apprehension is then overturned after the first comma, when we discover details about who is driving the car, including these: high sharp cheekbones that cause the eyes to recede. I decide he's a gentle person. There are three good reasons why this person might be gentle, as we already know, but before the decision comes down, a final contrast is made. Eyes characteristically (in fiction, borrowing heavily from Romanticism) are the well of emotion and truth, but here they recede, so you can't get that final confirmation of what the guy is like. Nevertheless, there's enough to go on, and "I decide," etc. - formal contrast, then, and decision not to elevate the figure of sight as final truth-test. What you call "man pounds rice" phrasing speaks exactly to a typicality in Silliman's nouns that is quintessential to Realism - the novel's genre, after all. If Lukacs were able to read Silliman, he would have completely revised his theory of modernism! "Ebony" is an interesting word choice, I agree. Obviously "black" can't be used twice in so close proximity, especially when you want to adjectivize both a man and roofing product. Balzac, a practical writer, would have appreciated this dilemma. (I don't see why "ebony" is euphemistic, though.) There's two lines on Non's first page: What is the import of detail? How do we stake that claim? Here I take the writer to be self-reflexively posing just such a question about these sorts of word-choices (ebony/back, or e.g. "delicate elderly Korean lady" on first page - what does it mean to choose nationality-as-racialization to describe this lady? etc). It is "we" who are staked in such claims because they implicate the reader as well in how to interpret those decisions of the writer. The question of detail of perception ties this text right back to a non-programmatic understanding of form developed by NAP. So I'm reading lots of intricacy in these observation-based lines, lots of "fancy," too, in the non-derogatory sense (which is obviously how you mean it). For baroque sentences that delight in their own complicatedness, you have to read Skies (it's in (R)). Skies is all about, only about, the sky, but the sentences are virtually non-identical to each other. So finally, I think a lot about Lowell of late *actually* has little to do with Lowell, and more to do with an understanding of form as programmatic - the neat way, for instance, one might read the clothes hanger stanza in Non via Williams's cat poem, which to me is like reading both as an animated Gif. To put this another way, it's a computer-based program lineage that's perhaps making reading nonprogrammatic forms based on perception an irritating reading experience, especially forms based on gaps as moments of negativity, moments where in other words the seemingly flat denotational levels of everyday commodified life explode into a million figural fragments as the reader attempts to join them into a totality (the totality between any two stanzas/sentences). It's an observation I'm making (and proposing), that's all. Craig Dworkin's anthology on aestheticizes to the max what once was a devastatingly profound critique of the centered subject (with repercussions for "western" culture, etc). On your blog, you say that "I had really meant to deal with Louis' writing about form in Silliman's Non but found what he wrote a bit confusing in the end." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:58:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Louis, Please pardon my intrusion into your conversation, but I see an entirely = different story in the poem: Here are the facts as they unfolded in the real world: the driver in the = car behind, a chap with an appearance of gentility, turned out to be a = member of the car hi-jacking team. He was called the "dupe." His job = was to lure unsuspecting drivers into that false sense of security they = feel when, late at night, afraid of the real world, they create an = imaginary one in which they feel safe. And ninety nine times out of a = hundred, they arrive home untouched and unharmed, not having been = attacked from either the front or the rear...but on this ill fated day, = the rasta cap proves to be no more than a cover up for a bad hairdo and = some slick pomade. And then of course, we all learn one should never = judge a man by his appearances nor a poem by the what it is "explained" = to be essay. =20 alex ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Louis Cabri=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:07 PM Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" Brian, It seems you hold a lot of stock in an idea's ability to generate a = 'kind' of writing or a writing practice. To hold such high stock makes sense = to me only in the current context of writing that uses programmatic - as in, pre-determined - forms. But, in the context of The Alphabet, begun in = the early 80s, or of any of the writing associated with Language poetry = from Ron's generation, well, how much programmatic form is there? I don't = think much. You might say David Bromige's Red Hats and Bob Perelman's a.k.a. = were attempts to write from an idea of the new sentence (and you might like = these books precisely for this reason). If by "novelistic" you mean a narrative unfolding through linear time, = then there is plenty of that at the level of the line, to me, in for = instance the passage from Non that we've been discussing. One example: Checking out the driver in the next car through my rear view mirror The colloquial expression "checking out" can go many ways, and its = direction is only specified after the first comma (which works like a colon) in = the sentence, for the driver turns out to be: thin ebony man with a long white beard, tricolor rasta cap, Three good reasons why the narrator will decide that this person is "gentle". In this sentence, one literally watches desire undergo a = transformation. First, it has no object at all, and as such is, as the phrase suggests ("checking / out"), optimistic about prospects. But then, the = subject's desire passes through a heavily-coded pop-cultural icon - the read = view mirror! Hitcock is apropos. Affect switches from optimism to = apprehension. Apprehension is then overturned after the first comma, when we = discover details about who is driving the car, including these: high sharp cheekbones that cause the eyes to recede. I decide he's a gentle person. There are three good reasons why this person might be gentle, as we = already know, but before the decision comes down, a final contrast is made. = Eyes characteristically (in fiction, borrowing heavily from Romanticism) = are the well of emotion and truth, but here they recede, so you can't get that = final confirmation of what the guy is like. Nevertheless, there's enough to = go on, and "I decide," etc. - formal contrast, then, and decision not to = elevate the figure of sight as final truth-test. What you call "man pounds rice" phrasing speaks exactly to a = typicality in Silliman's nouns that is quintessential to Realism - the novel's = genre, after all. If Lukacs were able to read Silliman, he would have = completely revised his theory of modernism! "Ebony" is an interesting word choice, I agree. Obviously "black" = can't be used twice in so close proximity, especially when you want to = adjectivize both a man and roofing product. Balzac, a practical writer, would have appreciated this dilemma. (I don't see why "ebony" is euphemistic, = though.) There's two lines on Non's first page: What is the import of detail? How do we stake that claim? Here I take the writer to be self-reflexively posing just such a = question about these sorts of word-choices (ebony/back, or e.g. "delicate = elderly Korean lady" on first page - what does it mean to choose nationality-as-racialization to describe this lady? etc). It is "we" = who are staked in such claims because they implicate the reader as well in how = to interpret those decisions of the writer. The question of detail of perception ties this text right back to a non-programmatic = understanding of form developed by NAP. So I'm reading lots of intricacy in these observation-based lines, = lots of "fancy," too, in the non-derogatory sense (which is obviously how you = mean it). For baroque sentences that delight in their own complicatedness, = you have to read Skies (it's in (R)). Skies is all about, only about, the = sky, but the sentences are virtually non-identical to each other. So finally, I think a lot about Lowell of late *actually* has little = to do with Lowell, and more to do with an understanding of form as = programmatic - the neat way, for instance, one might read the clothes hanger stanza = in Non via Williams's cat poem, which to me is like reading both as an = animated Gif. To put this another way, it's a computer-based program lineage = that's perhaps making reading nonprogrammatic forms based on perception an irritating reading experience, especially forms based on gaps as = moments of negativity, moments where in other words the seemingly flat = denotational levels of everyday commodified life explode into a million figural = fragments as the reader attempts to join them into a totality (the totality = between any two stanzas/sentences). It's an observation I'm making (and = proposing), that's all. Craig Dworkin's anthology on aestheticizes to the max what = once was a devastatingly profound critique of the centered subject (with repercussions for "western" culture, etc). On your blog, you say that "I had really meant to deal with Louis' = writing about form in Silliman's Non but found what he wrote a bit confusing = in the end." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:14:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" Comments: cc: "K. Silem Mohammad" , Brian Stefans MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Coda: Other kinds of writing might involve an entirely different relationship to and understanding of "close reading," which is obviously, according to my last take, what Silliman's text "classically" evokes. Close reading is very important as many have argued on this listserv, has been neglected of late in the academy, etc. I'd say it is actually coded into Silliman's text. But, I don't think that's what all texts are necessarily asking us to do. To use another example from Silliman's same generation and milieu, are Andrews's texts coded for the reader in this sense of "close reading"? I'm not sure. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:50:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Anal Staircase MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anal Staircase 100 [poin][obje[dest[enem] 101 ['Cle[ente[You[to][m] 102 [this[a]ch][will[when] 103 ['Why[did,[Benj[eith] 104 [Alle[was[this[crea] 105 [dest[is][a[that[One[Dec.] 106 [Japa[Pear][awar]["Bit] 107 [gonn][crea[face[Kell[to] 108 [s[fath][cock][you[I'l] 109 [help[woul[frie[we][d] 110 ['gir][we'r][spir][frag] 111 [acti[pros[but[nati] 112 [draf][phys[medi[More] 113 [mill[were[succ[IT?"] 114 ['Oh,[quit[Mr.]Gen][by] 115 [t[and[and[the[viol] 116 [the[bett[toas]Oh,] 117 [Pick][reli[expl[init] 118 [oppo][situ[woul[inst] 119 [with][the[Stri[embr][old] 120 [his[chan][thin][test] 121 [but[good[whet[thei] 122 [reac[perf][and[A]ye][Air] 123 [unde[thei[that[with] 124 [reco][more[beli[hidd] 125 ['You[me][o][list[that] 126 [defe[Lewi[year][a]lo] 127 [noth][the[his[quiv[been] 128 [that[came[quie[inte] 129 [it]t[knew[that[chee[do,] 130 [word[retu[glor][unit] 131 [all[in][War,[Edua[Aeri] 132 [Air]Thi[Sir][grad[intr] 133 [Heat[to][l[way,[it][w] 134 [weak]He[Pell[to][t[who] 135 [roun][agai[The[cont] 136 [good[come[--]t[raft] 137 [the[have[feeb[than] 138 [have[nowa]Oh,[long] 139 [man.[sent[to][y[The] 140 [cont[my][w[as][h][see] 141 [knew[verg[Eri[situ] 142 [find[Asse[situ[yout] 143 [air,[rend[admi[Comm] 144 [quic[deci[cycl]Wot] 145 [tria[Sam.[marr][woul] 146 [with][and[to][b[a]st] 147 [bori[Lato][eyes[coul] 148 [stor][but[was[The[Cong] 149 [indi[F-22[exer][Mr.] 150 [feel[doin][disc[the]No;] 151 ["dam[Sam,[lett[inje] 152 [into][circ[spec]Ver] 153 [said[afte[hesi[legs[in] 154 [a[impe[poli["And[two] 155 [driv[aske[Afte[and] 156 [gent[comm[big[esch][and] 157 [the[On][g[Rodi[pray] 158 [his]Doe[live[Pic[door] 159 [form[intr][anal[acci] 160 [hard[wort[Beca[make] 161 ['Wha[sir?[Pick][from] 162 [appe[the[amaz[dead] 163 [from[door][The[were[A] 164 [so][acro][forg[East[expe] 165 [mani]'Ta[is][i[his["I] 166 [c["Eve[thin][the[just] 167 [best[hims[only[as][e] 168 [the[inas[qual[the[enou] 169 [shou[morn][firs[tip] 170 [touc[in][a[send[were] 171 [Fren][comp[But[pray] 172 [sell[a]sk][Cong]Ah!] 173 [repl[I]sa][kiss[stol] 174 [from[open][door][moti] 175 [the[nigh][dism[arou] 176 [bunc[weap[most[are] 177 [woul[Amer][inte[Idea] 178 [illu[Conf]["Jar][neve] 179 [what[befo][best[yout] 180 [comm[pott[tall[clou] 181 [smok][blis[pere[inex] 182 [noth][sudd[eyel[and] 183 [glea[have[more[ques] 184 [Fred[unfa[yet[It][my][e] 185 [goss[bank][whic[they[Mr.] 186 [with][of][h][anim["The] 187 [ther][put["Aks[thei] 188 [appe[danc[afte[him,] 189 [his.[show[upon][Mexi] 190 [scie[that[weap[peer] 191 [thin][them[save]Sen]] 192 [sa[had[I]wi][we][h][come] 193 [a]ge][and[have[glac[can] 194 [exci[from[stan][wome] 195 [nume[of][t[Soci[stil] 196 [hesi[eter][impo][and] 197 [impo][subt[drop[the[rod] 198 [towa[your][good[reas] 199 [disc[for][Well[down] 200 [step[till[say[coac[run] august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/5/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:57:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Bulletproof Nursery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bulletproof Nursery 201 [he]d[Then][with][went] 202 ['I]s[see]]sa][same] 203 [unif][simi[over][We][h] 204 [whic[tabl[as][n][leav] 205 [Bell[wond[coul[alwa] 206 [chok][utte[lift[his] 207 [legs[soun][voic[chor][to] 208 [t[Nucl[jam-[back][MILS] 209 [to]k][shou[here[unde] 210 [inco][any[the[of][a[secr] 211 [the[Upan][the[visi] 212 [metr][1936[disa[home] 213 [had[impr][two][acco][,is] 214 [the[evid[reli[room] 215 [elev[stat[frie[to][K] 216 [oper][nati[cont[mora] 217 [test[more[out[turn][him] 218 [walk][did[agai[Anot] 219 [was[righ][give[crue] 220 [dead[he][t[red[agai[had] 221 [hope[long[to][i[a]so] 222 [to]p[your][capt[end,] 223 [unti[to][b[Sh][way[worl] 224 [who][extr][that[Pick][The] 225 [at]h][was[Robe[me][a] 226 [enem[reca[A.]S[of][a] 227 [Perh][was[of][t[pati] 228 [ladi[ask][for][the[eage] 229 [forw[when][woul[Writ] 230 [Conf][Suic[Cell[Almi[we] 231 [two][the[almo][time] 232 [alwa[just[bred[dark] 233 [damp[star][her][pond[and] 234 [the]Oh,[eh?'[Pick] 235 [smil[cert[defe[Slow] 236 [coul[The[a]do][the[snuf] 237 [good[didn][it][b[By][9] 238 [this[all[expl[inau[and] 239 [hors[on][t[it;[thin] 240 [whic[been][deat[now.] 241 [over][numb[anal[repo] 242 [gift[the[Mary[coat] 243 [sing[inst[anyt[quie] 244 [poss[ordi[stre[care] 245 [Sam'[to][b[exhi[mani] 246 [ange[BARB[forw[hips] 247 [inch][bur][in][i[amou] 248 [remn][and[asto][inge] 249 [tail[word[Kand[Lona] 250 [inst[she["Get[so][p] 251 [that[a]ag][blow[coun] 252 [flic[worn][whip[that] 253 [impo][rath][guar][peac] 254 [who][on-A[on,[exte[of][h] 255 [for][like[His[shut[The] 256 [brow[the[docu[as][e] 257 [the[Stri[does[line] 258 ['The[such][bank][sinc] 259 [his[will[basi[The[on][t] 260 [two][stre[thei[flam] 261 [and[of][t[scre[and[mutt] 262 [brea[He][c[Satu[a]di] 263 [grou["I]e[hung[his] 264 [flow[forc[exer][norm] 265 ["Ame[sole[the[That] 266 ["See[Adol[her][come] 267 [Isol[will[main][lead] 268 [Pick][embo][the[at][l] 269 [mili[Air][we'v[othe] 270 [abil[down][airc[same] 271 [full[afte[and[and[wher] 272 [be]f][he][w[He][w[the] 273 [caus[the[forc[reac[no] 274 [c[It][s[that[Chuc[that] 275 [of]y[retu[fire[five] 276 [that[midw]Don][Pick] 277 [shou]Ain][.]We][cert] 278 [and[thir][his[All[at][o] 279 [ulti[Kell[to][s[feel] 280 [rubb[in][h][he][w[ate] 281 [orga["I]d[said["Wha] 282 [each][O'Co][the[O'Co][see] 283 [and[with][head]You] 284 [agai[to-m[you[reme[Aga] 285 [his[some[neut[the[and] 286 [is]t[the[of][m[came] 287 [very[blac[smoo][How] 288 [thou[bric[And[flog] 289 [butl[cove[sayi[hors] 290 [clea[if][n][Jing[stri[of] 291 [h][to][t[took][down][see] 292 [Comp[dest[ince[mili] 293 [year][oper][itse[litt] 294 [They[fact]Ver][Mr.[we] 295 [w[He][n][thin][know[they] 296 [the[boot[of][h][depl] 297 [whic[call[this[such] 298 [Have[and[sens[were[one] 299 [Whic[look]["fan][airp] 300 [that[we'v[blus[awfu] august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/5/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:39:52 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Haligonian poet reading at the Ship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Halifax-based poet Tonja Gunvaldsen Klaassen reading at the Ship Inn, Wednesday, July 16 at 7:30 pm. She'll read from her new collection of poetry, Ör, published this past spring by Brick Books. Her new collection "...has the condensed intensity of light from old stars. Like a slow multifoliate explosion, her metaphors track the luminous traces left by the mind..." Lost thoughts, soot-lined, silver-lined concatenations incense of coal, cumulonimbus… pennies and ponies on the track heads or tails, a chance the sleeper l ugged backwards through France, honey-moon, lune de miel suite, sigh, tunnel of tickets and black gates, fate line rising from the luna mount mind the gap a porter calls and we cross, linked elbow to elbow ghost cars sparking the synaptic tracks… --from "Trains" Free.Always. -- _______________________________________________ d-acad: the Downtown Academy of Improvisers d-acad@abandonstream.net http://www.abandonstream.net/mailman/listinfo/d-acad ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:41:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Free Dumb Beer Books for Mac Poems In-Reply-To: <200307141851.h6EIpWh16937@freenet10.carleton.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (here's a once in a lifetime opportunity for all you Mac poets out=20 there, a new genre in the making. I think if you throw a couple=20 rhymes & a mention of Steve Jobs, jaguar & iPod you might have a chance=20= at winning. mIEKAL) Publisher offers 'Free Dumb Beer Books for Mac Poems' July 15 - 05:20 EDT=A0=A0 Alternative Authors Press have announced that, = in=20 honor of Macworld CreativePro Expo, they are giving away 100 copies of=20= "Things to do with Beer Bottles," to the first 100 poems about Macs=20 they receive. In addition, the seven best poems (or maybe the seven=20 worst) will receive a copy of "Stolen Snapshots: I am not a Poet." The=20= seven poems chosen will be featured, one per day, starting August 16,=20 2003. To take part in this promotion, simply send your Mac poems to=20 macpoems@stolensnapshots.com. Incidentally, both books were created=20 entirely on Macintoshes.=20= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:08:04 -0400 Reply-To: managingeditor@sidereality.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Clayton A. Couch" Subject: sidereality 2:3 is now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SIDEREALITY: A JOURNAL OF SPECULATIVE & EXPERIMENTAL POETRY NEWS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ “...a low-key and attractive site that is gradually building itself into an archive of appealing offbeat poems and related non-fiction.” A. M. Dellamonica, http://www.scifi.com/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ FROM THE MANAGING EDITOR'S DESK +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ANNOUNCING: sidereality 2:3 (http://www.sidereality.com) FEATURED POET: MTC Cronin INTERVIEW WITH: MTC Cronin POETRY BY: Arlene Ang, Aidan Baker, Jennifer Barnes, Greg Beatty, Valentine Broody, Ric Carfagna, Alan DeNiro, Colin Dodds, Amit Dwibedy, Jason Earls, Michael Farrell, David Fujino, Geoffrey Gatza, Jean NV Gier, Candy Gourlay, John Grey, August Highland, John Holland, D. J. Huppatz, Marcy Jarvis, Jill Jones, kris t kahn, Amy King, Stephen Kirbach, Donna Kuhn, Gary Langford, Kenyetta Lovings, Naima N. Lowe, Scott Malby, Charlotte Mandel, Jon Mathewson, Sandy McIntosh, Vanessa Mendicino, Takuya Murata, Kristy Odelius, Stephen Oliver, Sirrus Poe, Francis Raven, Terrie Leigh Relf, Chris Robideaux, Chris Sawyer, Jessica Schneider, Cheryl Snell, Michael Spring, Eileen Tabios, Steven Timm, Thomas Trull, Thomas Wiloch ARTICLES BY: Ralph M. Berry, MTC Cronin, Francis Raven REVIEWS BY: William Allegrezza, Clayton A. Couch, Thomas Fink, Tom Hibbard, Steven J. Stewart VISUAL ART BY: Greg Couch, Donna Kuhn, Amos Yaskil DONATIONS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There are several new projects in the works for sidereality, including a possible poetry e-books line, but we cannot fund everything without some assistance from the outside. While sidereality does not yet possess non-profit status, we would appreciate donations -- no matter how small -- from our readers. If you are interested in helping us continue to publish the best online poetry journal around, please visit http://www.sidereality.com/donate.htm at your earliest convenience. EDITORS WANTED +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ We’re looking to add one to two editors to our staff. If you’re interested, or know someone who is, please send an introductory email to managingeditor@sidereality.com. 2003 PUSHCART PRIZE NOMINATIONS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In November, we will be selecting six works published in sidereality during the 2003 calendar year, for the purpose of nominating them for the 2003 Pushcart Prize. If you have a favorite(s) from the first three issues of 2003, let the staff of sidereality know about it. Email -- you guessed it -- managingeditor@sidereality.com with your suggestion(s). 2003 NEWS ABOUT THE EDITORS OF SIDEREALITY +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ CLAYTON A. COUCH (managingeditor@sidereality.com) has recently seen work appear in Get Underground, moria, The Pedestal, with upcoming work to appear in Pierian Springs and Word For/Word. He’s currently assembling a chapbook of his poetry, and is looking for readers. Please visit his poetry weblog at http://home.earthlink.net/~cacpublicjournal/. GREG COUCH'S (arteditor@sidereality.com) newest visual art compositions can be viewed at http://webpages.charter.net/rondalyn/GregCouch/index.htm. He's also in the process of creating a forum on digital printmaking, which is located at http://www.digitalprintmaking.net/ STEVEN J. STEWART (stevenj1@hotmail.com) recently accepted a job at the University of Nevada, Reno as a Writing Specialist. His poetry and translations have recently been accepted by various publications, including JACK, The Diagram, Sentence, and Circumference. EDITOR'S NOTE +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ok, after putting sidereality 2:3 together, I’m a bit on the tired side. But in a good way. This edition of sidereality is, as you’ll soon see, our largest one yet, and I think you’ll find that its quality matches its quantity. All told, there are 71 poems, 8 reviews, 4 articles, and 1 interview in the July-September 2003 issue. Let me know what you think of it. I am now reading for sidereality 2:4 and 3:1, and will be responding to backlogged submissions during the second half of July. Please feel free to forward this newsletter to any and all interested parties. Enjoy your summer! Best wishes, Clayton ------------------------------------------------------------ Clayton A. Couch Managing Editor, _sidereality_ managingeditor@sidereality.com http://www.sidereality.com ------------------------------------------------------------ If you would prefer not to receive any further updates, or if you feel that you have received this message in error, please contact sidereality at managingeditor@sidereality.com. ------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:15:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: The Computer Not Boughten Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (This is my hacked attempt at a Mac poem, apologies to that guy Frost,=20= & anyone else who might try to detect the subtle offrhymes. I'll let=20 you know if I win anything.) The Computer Not Boughten (after Robert Frost's The Road Not Taken) TWO computers diverged in a technological haze, And happily I would not buy both And as one digital artist, long I brood And customized deep one as far as I should To where it crashed in the subroutine; =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 Then bought the other, as just as fast, And having perhaps the better aim, Because it was shiny and had software; Though as for that the coding there Had developed them really about the same, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 And both that morning equally parsed In data no calculation had yet to debug. Oh, I left the PC for another day! Yet knowing how innovation leads on to user base, I doubted if I could ever switch back. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 I shall be emailing this with no apprehension Somewhere versions and chips hence: Two computers diverged in R & D, and I=97 I acquired the one with more innovation, And that has made all the difference.= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:29:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: FUGS in the NY Times Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" There's a big color photo of Tuli Kupferberg and Ed Sanders as part of a NY Times article on the current re-union performances of the Fugs, the band they formed in the mid-1960s. Much mention of the overall scene from back then as well as their writing, including the only kind of mention that Sanders' magazine from back then, Fuck You: A Magazine of the Arts, is likely to get in the Times any time soon. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/15/arts/music/15FUGS.html -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:22:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Free Dumb Beer Books for Mac Poems In-Reply-To: <0ED76F54-B6CA-11D7-8D09-000393ABDF48@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" one shudders (with pain? with joy? with creative overdrive approaching sublime orgasmicity) to contemplate all the uses for beer bottles, and all the poetry they will spawn...this is just the kind of thing i love to bring in to classes to demonstrate the uses of poetry. At 8:41 AM -0500 7/15/03, mIEKAL aND wrote: >(here's a once in a lifetime opportunity for all you Mac poets out >there, a new genre in the making. I think if you throw a couple >rhymes & a mention of Steve Jobs, jaguar & iPod you might have a >chance at winning. mIEKAL) > >Publisher offers 'Free Dumb Beer Books for Mac Poems' >July 15 - 05:20 EDT Alternative Authors Press have announced that, >in honor of Macworld CreativePro Expo, they are giving away 100 >copies of "Things to do with Beer Bottles," to the first 100 poems >about Macs they receive. In addition, the seven best poems (or maybe >the seven worst) will receive a copy of "Stolen Snapshots: I am not >a Poet." The seven poems chosen will be featured, one per day, >starting August 16, 2003. To take part in this promotion, simply >send your Mac poems to macpoems@stolensnapshots.com. Incidentally, >both books were created entirely on Macintoshes. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:04:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The Computer Not Boughten Comments: cc: dtv@mwt.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" brilliantly clumsy; just my kind of writing. but you don't mention the beer bottles embedded in the garden structure at dreamtime...any way to fit that in? At 9:15 AM -0500 7/15/03, mIEKAL aND wrote: >(This is my hacked attempt at a Mac poem, apologies to that guy >Frost, & anyone else who might try to detect the subtle offrhymes. >I'll let you know if I win anything.) > >The Computer Not Boughten >(after Robert Frost's The Road Not Taken) > >TWO computers diverged in a technological haze, >And happily I would not buy both >And as one digital artist, long I brood >And customized deep one as far as I should >To where it crashed in the subroutine; > >Then bought the other, as just as fast, >And having perhaps the better aim, >Because it was shiny and had software; >Though as for that the coding there >Had developed them really about the same, > >And both that morning equally parsed >In data no calculation had yet to debug. >Oh, I left the PC for another day! >Yet knowing how innovation leads on to user base, >I doubted if I could ever switch back. > >I shall be emailing this with no apprehension >Somewhere versions and chips hence: >Two computers diverged in R & D, and I- >I acquired the one with more innovation, >And that has made all the difference. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: WRITING IN BUFFALO'S OLMSTED PARKS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I will be leading a writing workshop in the Buffalo Olmsted parks over the next six Saturdays. If you know of someone (in Buffalo) interested in taking a writing workshop, or in learning about Buffalo's Olmsted Parks, or simply looking for something different to do on Saturdays, please forward this announcement. We start this coming Saturday, and there are still a few places left. Apologies for cross-posting. Thanks! JS Summer writing workshops in the parks! Co-sponsored by the Buffalo Olmsted Parks Conservancy Developed during the second half of the nineteenth century by the well known landscape architects Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux, the Olmsted Park System in Buffalo is the oldest coordinated system of public parks and parkways in the United States. It was a visionary attempt to create islands of tranquility in the growing bustling city. just buffalo, in collaboration with the Olmsted Parks Conservancy, is offering a six-week writing workshop designed to explore outdoors writing in the Olmsted park system. Classes will meet each Saturday beginning July 19, in a different Olmsted Park: Front, Delaware, Martin Luther King, Cazenovia, Riverside and South Park. DEMOCRATIC VISTAS: WRITING IN BUFFALO'S OLMSTED PARKS In this six-week writing workshop, we will explore the Olmsted Park System as well as the "ecopoetic" possibilities and questions of outdoor writing, visiting a different park each week. Emphasis will be on plein air writing exercises, short readings from Olmsted's own writings on city landscapes, as well as from poetry and nonfiction by a range of authors. Discussion themes will include: nature writing techniques, ecology, urban design and politics, experimental and investigative writing, border living, Buffalo's various city cultures, as well as the pleasures and paradoxes of Olmsted's unique park system. Writing exercises will accommodate a variety of genre interests: poetry, essays, nature journals, letters to the editor, prose fiction and other mixed forms. Beginner as well as experienced writers welcome; each student will be encouraged to work at his or her own level. Writings produced during the workshop will be geared toward eventual publication and gathered into a chapbook. All meetings will be held on Saturdays, at alternating times in order to accommodate the different moods of the day (please pay close attention to the schedule). 1) Front Park, Saturday 7/19, 4-7pm. Lake Erie and the Niagara River; Olmsted's vision for Buffalo; 'descriptive' nature writing; Romantic vistas; industrial contrasts; arboreal poems in the 'dialectical' landscape. Readings: Baudelaire, Hopkins, Olmsted, Williams, Smithson. 2) Delaware Park, Saturday 7/26, 10am-1pm (class will end with free visit to the Albright Knox art gallery) "The Park" : the picturesque; people watching; Olmsted and the growth of American cities; 19th Century American visions; landscape art. Readings: Whitman, Hughes, Olmsted, Smithson. 3) Martin Luther King Park, Saturday 8/2, 4-7pm. (class begins with optional visit to Buffalo Museum of Science; price of museum admission not included with fee). The politics of open space; science and creative writing; investigative poetics; East Side views. Recommended viewing: "Claiming Open Spaces," by Austin Allen (documentary film available at just Buffalo in the week preceding the meeting). Readings: Ponge, Sanders, Dillard, Olmsted. 4) Cazenovia Park, Saturday 8/9, 10am-1pm. Urban wildlife; literary environmentalism; South Town views. Readings: Dickinson, Leopold, Carson. 5) Riverside Park, Saturday 8/16, 4-7pm. Rivers and cities; the shoreline; the indigenous perspective; border living. Readings: Johnson, Kenny, Silko. 6) South Park, Saturday 8/23, 10am-1pm (class includes a visit to the botanical gardens) Natural history and avant-garde poetics/ experimental writing. Readings: Ponge, Finlay, Mayer, _ecopoetics_. (Note: three hours have been scheduled for each class, but this can be shortened if students so desire. Meeting times can also be adjusted to accomodate the group's needs.) Students supply own writing materials; readings available online or as a photocopy at just Buffalo. Classes will be held rain or shine: please bring appropriate gear (rain jackets, sweaters, umbrellas, walking shoes). In the event of a torrential downpour, however, we'll meet at just Buffalo instead of the designated park. Readings include work from Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, Charles Baudelaire, Gerard Manley Hopkins, E. Pauline Johnson, Langston Hughes, William Carlos Williams, Aldo Leopold, Francis Ponge, Robert Smithson, Bernadette Mayer, Ed Sanders, Annie Dillard, Ian Hamilton Finlay, Rachel Carson, Maurice Kenny, Leslie Marmon Silko, and the journal _ecopoetics_. Jonathan Skinner, who hails from New Mexico, edits _ecopoetics_ in Buffalo, NY where he misidentifies birds along the Niagara River and is currently completing his dissertation on ecology and poetry for the SUNY English Department. His chapbooks include Political Cactus Poems (Periplum Editions) and Little Dictionary of Sounds (RedDLines). Registration 1 class: $30, $25 for jblc and O.P.C. members 2-5 classes: $25 each, $20 for jblc and O.P.C. members Six-week workshop: $120, $100 for jblc and O.P.C. members For more info please email Mike Kelleher, mjk@justbuffalo.org or Jonathan Skinner, jskinner@buffalo.edu or call the just buffalo literary center at 832-5400 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:27:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: WRITING IN BUFFALO'S OLMSTED PARKS In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This course sounds great, Jonathan. For the benefit of this list, particularly those of us into walking, Cities, the lit of the urban, etc., is it premature to share the specific books or works on your reading list? Stephen V on 7/15/03 8:26 AM, Jonathan Skinner at jskinner@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > I will be leading a writing workshop in the Buffalo Olmsted parks over the > next six Saturdays. If you know of someone (in Buffalo) interested in > taking a writing workshop, or in learning about Buffalo's Olmsted Parks, or > simply looking for something different to do on Saturdays, please forward > this announcement. We start this coming Saturday, and there are still a few > places left. Apologies for cross-posting. > > Thanks! > > JS > > Summer writing workshops in the parks! Co-sponsored by the Buffalo Olmsted > Parks Conservancy > > Developed during the second half of the nineteenth century by the well known > landscape architects Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux, the Olmsted > Park System in Buffalo is the oldest coordinated system of public parks and > parkways in the United States. It was a visionary attempt to create islands > of tranquility in the growing bustling city. > > just buffalo, in collaboration with the Olmsted Parks Conservancy, is > offering a six-week writing workshop designed to explore outdoors writing in > the Olmsted park system. Classes will meet each Saturday beginning July 19, > in a different Olmsted Park: Front, Delaware, Martin Luther King, Cazenovia, > Riverside and South Park. > > DEMOCRATIC VISTAS: WRITING IN BUFFALO'S OLMSTED PARKS > > In this six-week writing workshop, we will explore the Olmsted Park System > as well as the "ecopoetic" possibilities and questions of outdoor writing, > visiting a different park each week. Emphasis will be on plein air writing > exercises, short readings from Olmsted's own writings on city landscapes, as > well as from poetry and nonfiction by a range of authors. Discussion themes > will include: nature writing techniques, ecology, urban design and politics, > experimental and investigative writing, border living, Buffalo's various > city cultures, as well as the pleasures and paradoxes of Olmsted's unique > park system. > > Writing exercises will accommodate a variety of genre interests: poetry, > essays, nature journals, letters to the editor, prose fiction and other > mixed forms. Beginner as well as experienced writers welcome; each student > will be encouraged to work at his or her own level. Writings produced during > the workshop will be geared toward eventual publication and gathered into a > chapbook. All meetings will be held on Saturdays, at alternating times in > order to accommodate the different moods of the day (please pay close > attention to the schedule). > > 1) Front Park, Saturday 7/19, 4-7pm. Lake Erie and the Niagara River; > Olmsted's vision for Buffalo; 'descriptive' nature writing; Romantic vistas; > industrial contrasts; arboreal poems in the 'dialectical' landscape. > Readings: Baudelaire, Hopkins, Olmsted, Williams, Smithson. > > 2) Delaware Park, Saturday 7/26, 10am-1pm (class will end with free visit to > the Albright Knox art gallery) "The Park" : the picturesque; people > watching; Olmsted and the growth of American cities; 19th Century American > visions; landscape art. Readings: Whitman, Hughes, Olmsted, Smithson. > > 3) Martin Luther King Park, Saturday 8/2, 4-7pm. (class begins with optional > visit to Buffalo Museum of Science; price of museum admission not included > with fee). The politics of open space; science and creative writing; > investigative poetics; East Side views. Recommended viewing: "Claiming Open > Spaces," by Austin Allen (documentary film available at just Buffalo in the > week preceding the meeting). Readings: Ponge, Sanders, Dillard, Olmsted. > > 4) Cazenovia Park, Saturday 8/9, 10am-1pm. Urban wildlife; literary > environmentalism; South Town views. Readings: Dickinson, Leopold, Carson. > > 5) Riverside Park, Saturday 8/16, 4-7pm. Rivers and cities; the shoreline; > the indigenous perspective; border living. Readings: Johnson, Kenny, Silko. > > 6) South Park, Saturday 8/23, 10am-1pm (class includes a visit to the > botanical gardens) Natural history and avant-garde poetics/ experimental > writing. Readings: Ponge, Finlay, Mayer, _ecopoetics_. > > (Note: three hours have been scheduled for each class, but this can be > shortened if students so desire. Meeting times can also be adjusted to > accomodate the group's needs.) > > Students supply own writing materials; readings available online or as a > photocopy at just Buffalo. Classes will be held rain or shine: please bring > appropriate gear (rain jackets, sweaters, umbrellas, walking shoes). In the > event of a torrential downpour, however, we'll meet at just Buffalo instead > of the designated park. Readings include work from Walt Whitman, Emily > Dickinson, Charles Baudelaire, Gerard Manley Hopkins, E. Pauline Johnson, > Langston Hughes, William Carlos Williams, Aldo Leopold, Francis Ponge, > Robert Smithson, Bernadette Mayer, Ed Sanders, Annie Dillard, Ian Hamilton > Finlay, Rachel Carson, Maurice Kenny, Leslie Marmon Silko, and the journal > _ecopoetics_. > > Jonathan Skinner, who hails from New Mexico, edits _ecopoetics_ in Buffalo, > NY where he misidentifies birds along the Niagara River and is currently > completing his dissertation on ecology and poetry for the SUNY English > Department. His chapbooks include Political Cactus Poems (Periplum Editions) > and Little Dictionary of Sounds (RedDLines). > > Registration > > 1 class: $30, $25 for jblc and O.P.C. members > 2-5 classes: $25 each, $20 for jblc and O.P.C. members > Six-week workshop: $120, $100 for jblc and O.P.C. members > > For more info please email Mike Kelleher, mjk@justbuffalo.org > or Jonathan Skinner, jskinner@buffalo.edu > or call the just buffalo literary center at 832-5400 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:59:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Liquid Spill Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I pry a cream and needle s ky from you, when my voice nodes with yours, and twin stained bruises billow loosely through our bites. I rode my bike to see you. I rode my bike through the pained branches of midsummer. There was a place I wanted to get to. Your hands stitched your words to the air. You roll out against me, tenderest jelly. I rode my bike straightaway through your face, and landed amply in these pools. --stoic but calculated days-- ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In Mingus's title, "orange" rhymes with "blue silk." (The full title, from memory: "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress, Then Blue Silk." Spending an afternoon and then an evening with a woman in the city.) Vernon Frazer wrote: > > Thank you for debunking the myth, Alan. At least somewhere in the world, > someone can write a line that rhymes with orange. I'm having a hard time > imagining the subject, though. So, instead of using the inverted partial > title of Mingus's song, we can phrase it directly, and rhyme in the > sentiment the discussion by this time deserves : > > The color of her dress was orange. > She wore it each night at the morange, > It didn't stink > the way you'd think. > She let it air out on the door-hinge. > > Now that I've piled this particular remnant of the dead horse onto the > compost heap, as opposd to the morange, I'm going to listen to Mingus play > the real thing. > > Vernon > > (very recently retired from limerick rhyming) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Sondheim" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: orange > > > However there is a word which rhymes with 'orange' - it's 'morange' used > > in the midlands in England - > > > > "Compost Heaps and Moranges > > > > Several people have asked me to define the difference between a compost > > heap and a morange. > > > > A compost heap is an organised affair based on well-researched scientific > > principles. The aim of a compost heap is to rot organic material down in > > such a way that internal heat destroys most weed seeds while retaining the > > nutriments plants have taken from soil and air. Ideally all the material > > needed for the creation of a compost heap should be added at the time of > > its creation in several layers of different consistencies. Some of those > > layers may consist of kitchen waste and even animal remains if the heap > > can be protected from foxes and rats. The addition of saved buckets of > > urine will hasten the rotting process. A compost heap should be covered to > > retain heat. > > > > A morange is a much simpler affair. It consists solely of weeds, ideally > > added in layers, leaving time between each layer for rooted weeds to dry > > out. A morange will not kill off weed seeds. In the best moranges there > > should be no weeds that have reached flowering stage." > > > > This is from > > http://www.landofbrokenpromises.co.uk/garden/archives/2000_07/july.htm > > > > Here is more from the writer - Margaret Penfold - who I stayed with in > > Nottingham while speaking at Incubation - > > > > "The English word "morange" you used to illustrate a dialect word, is the > > only one I know of in English, to describe the casual heaps of weeds left > > to decay in situ for recycling. Any good gardener will tell you this is > > certainly not a compost heap, so I would suggest that 'morange' is not a > > dialect word but a main stream word even if it has been woefully neglected > > by the dictionaries. > > > > And now I need to close down my computer and get myself into holiday mood > > from which I will return a septuagenarian." > > > > - She has an amazing garden by the way - Alan > > > > > > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Vernon Frazer wrote: > > > > > It's pronounced "oringe" in New England. > > > > > > Vernon > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "ryan fitzpatrick" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 12:02 AM > > > Subject: Re: orange > > > > > > > > > > maybe it's a calgary thing (or an ogden thing) but most of the people > i've > > > > met pronounce orange either ornge or oringe. > > > > > > > > interesting to note those differences in dialect though > > > > > > > > ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: sylvester pollet > > > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > >Subject: orange > > > > >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:06:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >Ryan, Not sure where you live, but in the east the first syllable is > > > > >pronounced "are," not "or." Sylvester > > > > > > > > > >At 12:05 AM -0400 7/12/03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > > > >>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:09:39 +0000 > > > > >>From: ryan fitzpatrick > > > > >>Subject: Re: no meds I/fable of horror I > > > > >> > > > > >>orange rhymes with door hinge > > > > >> > > > > >>ryan > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ > > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > finger sondheim@panix.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:00:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: July trAce: Deena Larsen's Idea Odyssey, a conference curator's view, Carol Gigliotti on Women in new media (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:21:13 +0100 From: trace@ntu.ac.uk To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: July trAce: Deena Larsen's Idea Odyssey, a conference curator's vi= ew, Carol Gigliotti on Women in new media New at trAce - July 2003 |-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-| >From the trAce Online Writing Centre http://trace.ntu.ac.uk trAce connects writers around the world in real and virtual space. We speci= alise in creativity, collaboration, learning, research, and experimentation= =2E We offer online courses, web design and project management services. Jo= in our free community forums, with discussion boards and regular online eve= nts. |-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-| ***Current trAce features The Idea Odyssey (Review) Deena Larsen reports on her lecture at the University of Technology in Sydn= ey, the Ludic Moments conference in Sydney, and The Digital Arts and Cultur= e Conference in Melbourne http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/review/index.cfm?article=3D74 New Media Conferences: A Curator's View (Process) Media artist, teacher and theorist Steve Gibson offers curator's view of or= ganizing new media conferences http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/Process/index.cfm?article=3D75 Women and the Aesthetics of New Media (Opinion) A short history of the significance of women's involvement in new media By Carol Gigliotti http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/Opinion/index.cfm?article=3D71 If you would like to propose an article see http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/about/su= bmissions.cfm for guidelines. |-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-| *** Forumlive Chat The chat log for Sunday 15th June 2003 on Archiving [new media] outside of = institutions is now online at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/forumlive/chat15jun03.cfm |-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-| *** Applications invited for TEXTLAB A 5-Day Residential Workshop free to participants for Digital Writers and Artists working with New Media Texts Monday 10th November - Friday 14th November 2003 Writers for the Future trAce Online Writing Centre Nottingham Trent University, UK This week-long workshop is the first of its kind in the UK, offering writer= s and artists working with new media texts an opportunity to work together = intensively in a supportive creative and critical environment. The TEXTLAB = workshop is part of Writers for the Future, funded by Nesta. TEXTLAB aims t= o increase public understanding of New Media Writing, enable collaboration = and interactivity, and change the traditional view of literature as a print= -based linear form. During the residential week participants will operate individually and in g= roups to develop their projects without any pressure to produce a finished = piece. The emphasis is on freedom to explore and experiment in the company = of highly-experienced new media writers. Professional development advice wi= ll also be available to help you realise and promote your project beyond th= e workshop, and the group will continue online until Spring 2004 More information and how to apply at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writersforthefu= ture/textlab.cfm |-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-| ***7th New Media Writers' Workshop: The Message in New Media at Hypertext '= 03 You don't have to be an attendee at the main Hypertext Conference to come t= o this one-day live face-to-face workshop on Saturday August 30th in Nottin= gham, UK. It costs just =A350 to include refreshments and lunch. Payable in advance o= r on the day - but advance booking is essential. New Media Literature provides a unique testing place for hypertext theories= and concepts. New media writing explores content and contextual relationsh= ips between linking, imagery, navigation, structure, and motion to provide = a richer set of meanings. In an age when new media has become increasingly= professional to what extent can an individual produce work of a high enoug= h standard including text, graphics, animation, sound, programming etc. etc= ? How can the writer's message be expressed in new media? If you can't join us for the day, you are welcome to our Online Chat on Sun= day 17th August 9-10 pm UK time. The online chat is part of the Forum Live series organised by the trAce Onl= ine Writing Centre and the Eliterature Organisation with participants from = around the world. There will be an asynchronous web workshop at the trAce Forums from August = 17th through to September 30th to discuss the issues and further develop wo= rks in progress. The online chat is part of the Forum Live series organised by the trAce Onl= ine Writing Centre and the Eliterature Organisation with participants from = around the world. http://trace.ntu.ac.ukforumlive See http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/news/article.cfm?news=3D925 and/or contact helen= =2Ewhitehead@ntu.ac.uk |-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-| ***On the forums The forums provide a place for any member to post announcements of events, = websites, surveys, conferences, calls for papers, whatever you'd like to di= sseminate to other new media writers and artists. See the Announce section of the Forums for the latest additions including: New issue of poetry ezines Get Underground Poetix http://www.getunderground= =2Ecom/underground/poetry/index.cfm and Tin Lustre Mobile http://www.poetic= inhalation.com/tlm.html Web radio events at www.interference.org.uk and Moon Radio WebTV http://www= =2Emoonradio.co.uk The Hyperliterature Exchange, a new directory of hyperliterature for sale o= n the Web, is now online at http://hyperex.co.uk In an extension of our discussions on archiving new media, Sue Thomas, Arti= stic Director of trAce poses the question: What is more important - the web= site or its url? http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=3D10&= threadid=3D523 The forums have been quiet recently as the summer starts, as member Zoe Kin= g points out http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=3D10&threa= did=3D499 Why not take this opportunity to introduce Yourself? http://trace.ntu.ac.uk= /forums/messageview.cfm?catid=3D8&threadid=3D187 Join in the debate and discussion at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/forums (members= hip free) |-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-|-^-|-*-| trAce is an international centre based at the Nottingham Trent University a= nd supported by the AHRB, NESTA, and the Arts Council of England. trAce is = a UK National Grid for Learning approved site. the trAce Online Writing Centre trace@ntu.ac.uk http://trace.ntu.ac.uk The Nottingham Trent University Clifton, Nottingham NG11 8NS, UK Tel: + 44 (0) 115 848 6360 Fax: + 44 (0) 115 848 6364 You have received this email because you joined the trAce Online Writing Ce= ntre via our discussion forums. We apologise if you received it twice. We a= re in the process of moving our membership database, and this should be a t= emporary situation. If you would like to stop receiving mailings from us p= lease reply to this email with UNSUB FORUMS in the subject line. This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or= confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must = take no action on it nor show a copy to anyone. Please reply to this e-mail= to highlight the error. Opinions and information in this e-mail which do not relate to the business= of The Nottingham Trent University shall be understood as neither given no= r endorsed by the university. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:53:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: POETS of 9for9: Jennifer Coleman, Shanna Compton, Maria Damon, Tom Devaney, Brett Evans, Greg Fuchs, Nada Gordon, Daniel Nester, David Trinidad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 9for9 --------- set 2 of 9 Jennifer Coleman Shanna Compton Maria Damon Tom Devaney Brett Evans Greg Fuchs Nada Gordon Daniel Nester David Trinidad copyright =A9 2003 to all participating poets upon publication questions by CAConrad published by Mooncalf Press POBox 22521 Philadelphia, PA 19110 MooncalfPress@hotmail.com 9for9 is a collection of 9 questions for 9 poets and their answers. This is=20 the 2nd set of 9 sets. Some of the questions came from dreams, others from=20 waking ideas. The project was conducted through e-mail, questions arriving=20 in Inboxes once a week, usually on friday.=20 If you wish to communicate with any of the poets included, please feel free=20 to send correspondence to the e-mail address CAConrad13@aol.com, with the=20 subject line "9for9 correspondence". I promise to forward your message to=20 the poet you wish to connect with. Thank you, CAConrad --------- click here for the BRAND NEW http://poets9for9.blogspot.com/ the next 9for9 will be a LIVE panel at the Philly Sound Weekend, beginning at 10:30 a.m. on August 9th http://www.en= glish.upenn.edu/~wh/phillysoundwknd.html poets for the LIVE 9for9 will include: Jim Berhle Edmund Berrigan Jim Cory hassen Sofia Memon Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore Deborah Richards Molly Russakoff Prageeta Sharma ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:03:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're correct about the title. I'm not sure Mingus intended "blue silk" to represent a "rhyme" for orange. I always thought of "blue silk" as a verbal segue analogous to Mingus's stream of consciousness or his multi-themed compositions. I can't find the record jacket that tells the story behind the tune, so I can't comment beyond what I've just written. Vernon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Fox" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: Re: orange > In Mingus's title, "orange" rhymes with "blue silk." (The full title, > from memory: "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress, Then Blue Silk." > Spending an afternoon and then an evening with a woman in the city.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:31:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm just making a little argument for extending notions of rhyme. I can't remember if he ever gave any info about the title. I would be interested. Vernon Frazer wrote: > > You're correct about the title. I'm not sure Mingus intended "blue silk" to > represent a "rhyme" for orange. I always thought of "blue silk" as a verbal > segue analogous to Mingus's stream of consciousness or his multi-themed > compositions. I can't find the record jacket that tells the story behind the > tune, so I can't comment beyond what I've just written. > > Vernon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Skip Fox" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:12 PM > Subject: Re: orange > > > In Mingus's title, "orange" rhymes with "blue silk." (The full title, > > from memory: "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress, Then Blue Silk." > > Spending an afternoon and then an evening with a woman in the city.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:43:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: orange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I gave a second look, and found it on Mingus's "Changes Two," on which the song's title is "Orange was the Color of her Dress, Then Silk blue." Mingus revised his titles and retitled his compositions almost at whim. Mingus wrote the piece as part of a film score. Here's a quote form Nat Hentoff's liner notes: "'The story,' Mingus recalls, 'was about a rich girl who supposedly fell in love with a piano player. She liked to bug him and so she bought an orange dress and told him to write a song dedicated to her dress, figuring that no one could find a word to rhyme with orange.'" Obviously, the woman had never visited the English midlands. Vernon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Fox" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:31 PM Subject: Re: orange > I'm just making a little argument for extending notions of rhyme. I > can't remember > if he ever gave any info about the title. I would be interested. > > Vernon Frazer wrote: > > > > You're correct about the title. I'm not sure Mingus intended "blue silk" to > > represent a "rhyme" for orange. I always thought of "blue silk" as a verbal > > segue analogous to Mingus's stream of consciousness or his multi-themed > > compositions. I can't find the record jacket that tells the story behind the > > tune, so I can't comment beyond what I've just written. > > > > Vernon > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Skip Fox" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:12 PM > > Subject: Re: orange > > > > > In Mingus's title, "orange" rhymes with "blue silk." (The full title, > > > from memory: "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress, Then Blue Silk." > > > Spending an afternoon and then an evening with a woman in the city.) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:50:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: new moveon action regarding WMD lies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed More and more Moveon.org is being recognized and respected as a representative lobbying force. They're looking for 350,000 signatories/letter-senders by Wednesday. If you haven't already heard about it, please consider going to this very easy, automated website and sendign a brief note to your representative.: http://www.moveon.org/wmdpledge/ Here is their letter to prospective helpers : Dear friend, The President took the nation to war based on his assertion that Iraq posed an imminent threat to our country. Now the evidence that backed that assertion is falling apart. If the Bush administration distorted intelligence or knowingly used false data to support the call to war, it would be an unprecedented deception. Even if weapons are now found, it'll be difficult to justify pre-war language that indicated that the exact location of the weapons was known and that they were ready to deploy at a moment's notice. With a crisis of credibility brewing abroad and the integrity of our President and our foreign policy on the line, we need answers now. Rep. Henry Waxman has introduced legislation to create an independent commission to investigate the Bush administration's distortion of evidence. Please ask your Representative to pledge his or her support at: http://www.moveon.org/wmdpledge/ A President may make no more important decision than whether or not to take a country to war. If Bush and his officials deceived the American public to create support for the Iraq war, they need to be held accountable. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:45:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: Verse Press From: Poetics List Administration Organization: Verse Press Subject: New Titles from Verse Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Listserv administrator, Would you please post this announcement to the list? Thank you, Lori Shine Managing Editor, Verse Press **************** NEW TITLES from Verse Press: http://www.versepress.org NUDE SIREN poems by Peter Richards Dean Young writes: "Using descriptive intensity as a form of imaginative liberty, these poems come from the blast furnace of a new idiom, what ‘Coastal People’ calls ‘a June-fed incinerator.’ . . . The force of these volatile lyrics comes in part from an articulation pushed beyond the combinatory explosiveness of surrealism toward a vatic brilliance, and their darkness is utterly convincing because it is so full of comets and scars." MONKEY TIME poems by Philip Nikolayev Winner of the 2001 Verse Prize, selected by Lyn Hejinian John Kinsella writes: "Philip Nikolayev is a subverter of form and language. He is starkly innovative, but in an unpredictable and non 'school'-oriented way. His is a poetics in 'cahoots' with a self-created idiomatic Russian-American English . . . . Richly ironic, sensitive, and variable in voice, these poems are barbs from a place few of us see, but most of us would like to visit." HOW SMALL BRIDES SURVIVE IN EXTREME COLD poems by Steve Shavel Clumsy acrobats tumbling through the circuses of philosophy, architecture, politics, religion and just about anything else you can think of, Steve Shavel's wild meditations drift and whirl with spastic brilliance among language's most earnest and playful coincidences. Find these titles and more at http://www.versepress.org and from Small Press Distribution ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:46:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louis, I would really like to know what you mean by "most of the reading happens between the stanzas/sentences, not in the stanzas/sentences themselves". I have read Silliman's The New Sentence only once, and I am familiar with his Toner, having a copy of it, and have recently lent his In the Am. Tree to a friend and found some parts of it interesting, in particular an essay in there, (or is it in The New Sentence?) about the difference, syntacticly speaking, between surrealist poetry and language poetry. I originally read The New Sentence because of the essay about Spicer in it who I'm really intrigued with. (In fact I did a little library research on Spicer and found an article he co-authored with a linguist at Berkeley about northwestern Ohio speech dialects that Spicer helped, apparently, with the statistical analysis of.) Anyways, I'd like to be informed in particular of the meaning of the term "parataxis". I'm not familiar with that term at all. Could you explain it? Matt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:36:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsParataxis.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Keenan" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:46 PM Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" > Louis, > > I would really like to know what you mean by "most of the reading happens > between the stanzas/sentences, not in the stanzas/sentences themselves". > > I have read Silliman's The New Sentence only once, and I am familiar with > his Toner, having a copy of it, and have recently lent his In the Am. Tree > to a friend and found some parts of it interesting, in particular an essay > in there, (or is it in The New Sentence?) about the difference, syntacticly > speaking, between surrealist poetry and language poetry. > > I originally read The New Sentence because of the essay about Spicer in it > who I'm really intrigued with. (In fact I did a little library research on > Spicer and found an article he co-authored with a linguist at Berkeley about > northwestern Ohio speech dialects that Spicer helped, apparently, with the > statistical analysis of.) > > Anyways, I'd like to be informed in particular of the meaning of the term > "parataxis". I'm not familiar with that term at all. Could you explain it? > > Matt > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:46:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics [plain text message] In-Reply-To: <000001c343ba$e3a53920$0100a8c0@bucephalus> Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable update there conjuring tricks laying down limits justifiable limitation =20= running though style variation dogpartsdogpartsdogparts =20= recorded imitations calming folding linen varying attitudes =20= noting gestures for life essential how one benefits =20= can bury a small knife and for recorded sentences nodal =20= points improvisation street accident variation tricks =20 limits justifiable dogs behind the screen bible benefit =20= free characterization parts part a partbpart a partbpart =20= a partb memorizing variation dog tap-dance tap dog dance =20= dance dat tog dog ants epic situation take note exercise observation cat playing production =20 folding linen very small sentence incident hand a thread =20= vary a away same for cats playing an epic one loses = =20 one gestures ton of voice being an open receded =20 search accident laying down into the part of a calmly =20= folding glances calmly folding glances how folding clam =20= glances how to to take note to play cat same for =20= same for rhythmical speaking tap-dance running though =20 laying down running though justifiable went into the =20 kitchen behind the screen folding linen varying attitudes =20= f smokes imitation how to note answerstemperament =20 imitation folding linen from: Bertolt Brecht=92s =93Exsercise for acting schools" kari edwards _________________ -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- _________________ NEW: A NEW NOVEL BY kari edwards / a day in the life of p. From: Subpress Collective /ISBN # 1-930068-18-2 @ Small Press Distribution http://www.spdbooks.org/ @ amazon.com ________________________________ Announcing from O Books: iduna, by kari edwards, 2003 (fall) _________________________________ a diary of lies, by kari edwards, Belladonna* Books, 2002 http://www.durationpress.com/belladonna/catalog.htm ________________________________ Also check out: live recording: http://www.factoryschool.org/content/sounds/poetry/frontenac.html interview: http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2003spring/ edwards.shtml http://www.gendertalk.com/real/350/gt385.shtml on narrative: http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/narrativity/issuethree_toc.htm prose / fiction http://www.chimerareview.com/volumes/2003_4/fic_edwards_1.0.htm http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/august2002/kariedwards/=20 literary_magazine.html http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm poetry: http://www.wordforword.info/vol4/Edwards.htm http://www.atomicpetals.com/ke03.htm http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/edward10.htm http://www.blazevox.org/edwards.htm http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/poetic%20language.html http://www.bigbridge.org/miamikedwards.htm http://www.xpressed.org/ http://www.litvert.com/kedwards8.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:20:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Reading, This Evening, at Remote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Reading, This Evening, at Remote "when writing throbs, God bunches up" Lamu throbs and, under a tent of mosquito netting, I Egyptians as the embodiment of Toth, the god of wisdom and the inventor of writing, these snowy true This publication of Early Writing is by Chris Church Minus the billowing stratospheric cloud, Thank God, the sky coil of phrases beyond blood that throbs like a true AUTUMN SONG With long sobs the violin-throbs of autumn A kiss on the cheek for you and may God bless your but I am in kind of a writing and personal Angelou * AUTUMN SONG With long sobs the violin-throbs of autumn A kiss on the cheek for you and may God bless your but I am in kind of a writing and personal true way I can print out some stuff for a writing contest which has a deadline God. i've gone from spasms to heartbeat-paced throbs of pain when i try to move. Angelou * AUTUMN SONG With long sobs the violin-throbs of autumn A kiss on the cheek for you and may God bless your but I am in kind of a writing and personal true gaze the color glows, the contour throbs, the hidden ... God help him, in that he is to be King of ... Writing now of this in the felt darkness that pours up Considerate lilia agri Bunches of flowers or plants in pots are and stern warning, since to treasures laid up in heaven like them, they owe it to God with a lace of blue, and wrote upon it a writing, Holiness to they are employed in the service of God, we may See how much life throbs in the rationes seminales true Thank God we were there, the spouse of the other presented Friday night group reading, a big snapshot of writing now, I Every toenail throbs like a sparkler true and writing throbs and God bunches up ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:15:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: julie kizershot Subject: hello! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=646 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -kari!! One really cool thing happened, I saw your book P at the St Marks bookshop= s down the block. Just there on the shelf with the other cool books. Another GOOD thing happened, the woman who is staying in my apt in Boulder= picked it up randomly from all the books I have and started reading it the= re in my apt in Boulder and said that it seemed really interesting...... you go, yay! you W I LL be a well known writer (as far as writerly writers = go)=20 and you ARE beautiful!! xoxoxoxoxo from the east village, Julie ------Original Message------- From: kari edwards Sent: 07/15/03 11:46 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics [plain text message= ] >=20 > update there conjuring tricks laying down limits justifiable limitation =20 running though style variation dogpartsdogpartsdogparts =20 recorded imitations calming folding linen varying attitudes =20 noting gestures for life essential how one benefits =20 can bury a small knife and for recorded sentences nodal =20 points improvisation street accident variation tricks =20 limits justifiable dogs behind the screen bible benefit =20 free characterization parts part a partbpart a partbpart =20 a partb memorizing variation dog tap-dance tap dog dance =20 dance dat tog dog ants epic situation take note exercise observation cat playing production =20 folding linen very small sentence incident hand a thread =20 vary a away same for cats playing an epic one loses = =20 one gestures ton of voice being an open receded =20 search accident laying down into the part of a calmly =20 folding glances calmly folding glances how folding clam =20 glances how to to take note to play cat same for =20 same for rhythmical speaking tap-dance running though =20 laying down running though justifiable went into the =20 kitchen behind the screen folding linen varying attitudes =20 f smokes imitation how to note answerstemperament =20 imitation folding linen from: Bertolt Brecht=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CExsercise for acting schools" kari edwards _________________ -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- _________________ NEW: A NEW NOVEL BY kari edwards / a day in the life of p. From: Subpress Collective /ISBN # 1-930068-18-2 @ Small Press Distribution http://www.spdbooks.org/ @ amazon.com ________________________________ Announcing from O Books: iduna, by kari edwards, 2003 (fall) _________________________________ a diary of lies, by kari edwards, Belladonna* Books, 2002 http://www.durationpress.com/belladonna/catalog.htm ________________________________ Also check out: live recording: http://www.factoryschool.org/content/sounds/poetry/frontenac.html interview: http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2003spring/ edwards.shtml http://www.gendertalk.com/real/350/gt385.shtml on narrative: http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/narrativity/issuethree_toc.htm prose / fiction http://www.chimerareview.com/volumes/2003_4/fic_edwards_1.0.htm http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/august2002/kariedwards/=20 literary_magazine.html http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm poetry: http://www.wordforword.info/vol4/Edwards.htm http://www.atomicpetals.com/ke03.htm http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/edward10.htm http://www.blazevox.org/edwards.htm http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/poetic%20language.html http://www.bigbridge.org/miamikedwards.htm http://www.xpressed.org/ http://www.litvert.com/kedwards8.html > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:40:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: hello! In-Reply-To: <267664.1058329756812.JavaMail.nobody@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julie... so good to hear from you....and that was all good for my ego.. I do=20 want to say it was great having time to spend with you... I miss not=20 having your around... love kari On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 06:15 PM, julie kizershot wrote: > -kari!! > > One really cool thing happened, I saw your book P at the St Marks=20 > bookshops down the block. Just there on the shelf with the other cool=20= > books. > Another GOOD thing happened, the woman who is staying in my apt in=20 > Boulder picked it up randomly from all the books I have and started=20 > reading it there in my apt in Boulder and said that it seemed really=20= > interesting...... > > > you go, yay! you W I LL be a well known writer (as far as writerly=20 > writers go) > > and > > you ARE beautiful!! > > xoxoxoxoxo from the east village, > > Julie > > > > > ------Original Message------- > From: kari edwards > Sent: 07/15/03 11:46 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics [plain text=20 > message] > >> >> update there > > conjuring tricks laying down limits justifiable limitation > running though style variation dogpartsdogpartsdogparts > recorded imitations calming folding linen varying = attitudes > noting gestures for life essential how one benefits > can bury a small knife and for recorded sentences = nodal > points improvisation street accident variation tricks > limits justifiable dogs behind the screen bible benefit > free characterization parts part a partbpart a partbpart > a partb memorizing variation dog tap-dance tap dog dance > dance dat tog dog ants epic situation > take note exercise observation cat playing production > folding linen very small sentence incident hand a thread > vary a away same for cats playing an epic one =20 > loses > one gestures ton of voice being an open receded > search accident laying down into the part of a calmly > folding glances calmly folding glances how folding clam > glances how to to take note to play cat same for > same for rhythmical speaking tap-dance running though > laying down running though justifiable went into the > kitchen behind the screen folding linen varying = attitudes > f smokes imitation how to note answerstemperament > imitation folding linen > > > > from: Bertolt Brecht=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CExsercise for acting schools" > > kari edwards > _________________ > -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- > _________________ > > NEW: A NEW NOVEL BY kari edwards / a day in the life of p. > From: Subpress Collective /ISBN # 1-930068-18-2 > @ Small Press Distribution http://www.spdbooks.org/ > @ amazon.com > ________________________________ > Announcing from O Books: iduna, > by kari edwards, > 2003 (fall) > _________________________________ > a diary of lies, by kari edwards, Belladonna* Books, 2002 > http://www.durationpress.com/belladonna/catalog.htm > ________________________________ > Also check out: > live recording: > http://www.factoryschool.org/content/sounds/poetry/frontenac.html > > interview: > http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2003spring/ edwards.shtml > http://www.gendertalk.com/real/350/gt385.shtml > > on narrative: > http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/narrativity/issuethree_toc.htm > > prose / fiction > http://www.chimerareview.com/volumes/2003_4/fic_edwards_1.0.htm > http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/august2002/kariedwards/ > literary_magazine.html > http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm > http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html > http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm > http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html > http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm > > poetry: > http://www.wordforword.info/vol4/Edwards.htm > http://www.atomicpetals.com/ke03.htm > http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/edward10.htm > http://www.blazevox.org/edwards.htm > http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/poetic%20language.html > http://www.bigbridge.org/miamikedwards.htm > http://www.xpressed.org/ > http://www.litvert.com/kedwards8.html > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:29:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: julie kizershot Subject: Re: hello! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit whoops!! sorry all, supposed to be a private message. But kari edwards' work really IS terrific. julie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:16:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Re: WRITING IN BUFFALO'S OLMSTED PARKS Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Only "premature" in the sense that the detailed and complete reading list is still under construction! I will be happy to forward as it materializes. Robert Smithson's essay "Frederick Law Olmsted and the Dialectical Landscape" is a good place to begin. His "A Tour of the Monuments of Passaic, New Jersey" is also a great text for, what shall we call it, pedipoetics? [Two Smithson notes: has anyone else heard that he was "delivered" by WCW? (Or was Dr. Williams just the family pediatrician?) Also, apparently Spiral Jetty reemerged from the evaporating waters of the Great Salt Lake this winter. Anyone been to see it?] Olmsted himself you can dip in just about anywhere, for a taste of his florid but impassioned advocacy. An excellent paperback collection is _Civilizing American Cities: Writings On City Landscapes_, ed. S.B. Sutton. "Public Parks and the Enlargement of Towns," an essay published by the American Social Science Association in 1870 (and included in this volume), is probably his most comprehensive statement. Baudelaire has at least one great 'park poem' set in the Luxembourg Gardens: the prose poem "Les Veuves" (The Widows) from Paris Spleen. Then there's big chunks, it seems, of Paterson . . . In fact, I'd been meaning to query this list: *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of poets writing in and around parks?* (And don't everyone say Cole Swensen . . . ) I know there's the English country house tradition (Marvell, etc.) and the French baroque chateau poets with their fountains and bubbles (La Fontaine, Malherbe) but I'm particularly interested in American examples. Which can and should, of course, extend to poems-in-parks or poems-as-park in the manner of I.H. Finlay. I myself have found that for the "poetics of parks," as of landscape in general, it's easier to turn to the visual arts. At the same time I have the sneaking suspicion I'm missing lots of great examples right underfoot! Thanks for any ideas . . . and I promise to share mine when I get them all on one page. JS >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:27:41 -0700 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: Re: WRITING IN BUFFALO'S OLMSTED PARKS >This course sounds great, Jonathan. For the benefit of this list, >particularly those of us into walking, Cities, the lit of the urban, etc., >is it premature to share the specific books or works on your reading list? >Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:53:44 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics [plain text message] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello kari I must confessed I am puzzled about your piece on Fulcrum, the moreso puddled, as we say over here, as I've liked your posts but don't understand the apparent animosity in your message, or am I misreading it? I'll own up to the fact that I'm one of the contributors to Fulcrum and am awed by the resources that are available in the USA to literary mags in contrast to cash-strapped Britain. Anyhow, this is just a note of puzzlement, keep up those interesting posts. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:55:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Eyes of the Roses Comments: To: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii for Renee I'd never dreamed I could be so enfolded until I mistakenly slid from illness through your nights bathed in thickets of real-life case files and the humor we wore to deflect our pasts. You're so goddamned advanced you figure it out. All I've had for years is reflections of these weed-serrated houses, and tonight four hundred miles away from you I walk until I've hammered all the sweat out, the scream of my body sinking into this dirt I was born in. Have you ever seen so many fences in one fucking town? At the same time, I don't know how deep he goes, asleep where we shattered a thousand old bones, crying among the retired, hospice tense, and growing new frames to laugh at during South Park. By myself, I would probably use the phrase "cultural landscape" and forget about it, though I bury here what I won't bury in you. And sometimes I think about the eyes of the roses. ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:02:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This site somewhat misleadingly defines parataxis as "the juxtaposition of syntactic units without use of a conjunction." This is true of you except the conjunction 'and' which, because it is additive rather than subordinative, is constitutive of parataxis. Check out the King James version of Genesis or Pound's early Cantos for examples of parataxis using 'and'. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Zimmerman" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 8:36 PM Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" > http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsParataxis.htm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Keenan" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" > > > > Louis, > > > > I would really like to know what you mean by "most of the reading happens > > between the stanzas/sentences, not in the stanzas/sentences themselves". > > > > I have read Silliman's The New Sentence only once, and I am familiar with > > his Toner, having a copy of it, and have recently lent his In the Am. Tree > > to a friend and found some parts of it interesting, in particular an essay > > in there, (or is it in The New Sentence?) about the difference, > syntacticly > > speaking, between surrealist poetry and language poetry. > > > > I originally read The New Sentence because of the essay about Spicer in it > > who I'm really intrigued with. (In fact I did a little library research on > > Spicer and found an article he co-authored with a linguist at Berkeley > about > > northwestern Ohio speech dialects that Spicer helped, apparently, with the > > statistical analysis of.) > > > > Anyways, I'd like to be informed in particular of the meaning of the term > > "parataxis". I'm not familiar with that term at all. Could you explain it? > > > > Matt > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:13:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Uncompromised Primary Recall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Uncompromised Primary Recall 301 [one[egre["Lit[litt] 302 [litt[he][m[thre[the] 303 [forc[reti[shal[the] 304 [behi[and[feet[have[you,] 305 [Maxi]No,[Nath][Dani] 306 [rubb[betw[and[loud] 307 ["The[tha[get[said[to][f] 308 [solu[allo][and[wind] 309 [stov[spit[adva[with] 310 [twit[watc[vind[of][bott] 311 [them[of][t[bega[his[it] 312 [i[can][can][facu[poss] 313 [that[and[.].[spea[star] 314 [thes[have[soul[this] 315 [Stud[acti[and[righ] 316 [full[will[retu[As][h] 317 [saw[silh][ligh]["Wha[Bu] 318 [with][and,[othe[BOUQ] 319 [His[cont[perp[star] 320 [over][they[one[to][k] 321 [star][Moun][sett[I]wo] 322 [ther][out[trip[road] 323 [befo][very[smal[that] 324 [outs[pape[pare[inno] 325 [the[of][l[self][life[a] 326 [li[Need]He,[soon][Mr.] 327 [grin][reli[the[made[one] 328 [his[that[whol[show] 329 [tran][brig[fait[pris] 330 [conf][hims[I]wo][a]fo] 331 [one,[you.[pist[be][p] 332 [scof][meet["Wha]Ver] 333 [repl[who][quic[with] 334 [bomb[unde[comm[reli] 335 [was[diff][find[The[Ber] 336 [was[stat[beca[cons] 337 [boun][So][s[blac[the[the] 338 ["No][I]lo][Dann][hold] 339 [open]In][youn][Mr.[plac] 340 [the[anot[very[Co][incr] 341 [400[medi[and[mann] 342 [scor][The[loud[sore] 343 [figh][thin][be][a[and[has] 344 [more[than][It][w[time] 345 [the[,]my][chal[walk] 346 [cour][when][.].[sil[the] 347 [told[his[with][Pick] 348 [with][thin][whic[only] 349 [pass[comp[serv[equa] 350 [mont[pant[pull[just] 351 [get[eage[as][hear][glas] 352 [comp[good[prot[coul] 353 [and[anyt]Dea[Pick] 354 [your][sini[the[in][b] 355 [soun][the[sati]Not]] 356 [re[inex[of][t[on][t[side] 357 [Then][of][h][flun][abou] 358 [entw[sque[erec[lowe[I] 359 [wo][Mayb[to?[ever][hard] 360 [to]P[very[seem[drif] 361 [that[cons[wasn][beca] 362 [room[shar][crie[Ryan] 363 [puss[pump[bene[wind] 364 [abou[runn][were[they] 365 [wher][Sam[The[not[was] 366 [rath]["I]d[it][w[it][w] 367 [did[Resi[proc[proc[is] 368 [a[appr]["Ah,[Roth][shou] 369 [It[ling[no][i[she[fund] 370 [comi[budg[look][neig] 371 [and[tran][glan][ther] 372 [surp[Matt[hear]["No,] 373 ["Oh,[let[caug[brot] 374 [your][kind[comp[in][f][in] 375 [1[Amer][Monu[not[plea] 376 [inte[assu[and[engo] 377 [from[puss]So][thin] 378 [anyt[cond[chum[upon][in] 379 [t[them[to][w[to][d[good] 380 [show[divi[That[prin] 381 [very[not[suff][prop[him] 382 [mile[foot[and[and["Do] 383 [it?"[thou[how[expr] 384 [you[to][e[sayi[will[if] 385 [I[Pres[Unit[Regu[is][a] 386 [and[sold[prof][year][and] 387 [hono][In][t[our][Swam] 388 [Maha["Do][to?"[weak] 389 [look][col[extr][him[sacr] 390 [him[were[to][b[slut] 391 [this[tota[skie[As][t] 392 [blue[same[Tuck][good] 393 [any[o'cl[see[Into][over] 394 [comm[like[ster][of][D] 395 [othe[is][f][old[sick][and] 396 [of]r][the[they[idle] 397 [she,[the[of][t[very[and] 398 [exci[new[impu[me][r] 399 [Flem[all[perf][And[cour] 400 [mean][visi[with][and] august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/15/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:41:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: New Visual Poetry by August Highland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New Visual Poetry by August Highland www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_01.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_02.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_03.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_04.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_05.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_06.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_07.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_08.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_09.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_10.png august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/15/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:39:53 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Announcing Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing the imminent publication of my book 'Painting Without Numbers' by my bone-idle publisher Robin Hamilton's 'Phantom Rooster Press'. This will also mark of the event of an actual book under the imprint, which is fast attaining mythic status, I am also sending this message to spur the lazy bastard into doing something outside his customary confetti of excuses, self-poured I hasten to add. People will even be able to purchase copies, via the negligent demiurge, although of course I have no idea of the terms, after all, I only wrote the stuff, who am I to complain? Best (wink) Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:44:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hazel smith Subject: Ian Young email address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Would anyone have an email address for the Canadian poet Ian Young by any chance? If so could you backchannel please. I want to contact him in connection with a book I am writing. Many thanks Hazel Dr. Hazel Smith Senior Research Fellow School of Creative Communication Deputy Director University of Canberra Centre for Writing http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/writing Editor of Inflect http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/inflect University of Canberra ACT 2601 phone 6201 5940 More about my creative work at www.australysis.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:04:20 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Peacitude Comments: To: UK Poetry List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.arras.net/weblog [This entry has been revised since I first posted it yesterday. It's been adjusted to fit your screen.] I'm taking a break from this whole shebang as I'm preparing for a trip to Toronto -- waxing the moustachios, loading up the paint gun, that sort of thing -- and the debate's spawned such a variety of forking paths, many of which lead to a defense of Robert Lowell, which, in isolation, raises a lot of issues (as in Steve Evans' poignant "well why don't we write about James Schuyler") that I'm not sure how to proceed or if it even matters. My point was to argue (grouchily but hoping to make a serious mark) with a set of terms being tossed about on Silliman's Blog (which I view as an effective act of criticism) -- "school of quietude" versus an unnamed something else, the idea of a "third way" as a "death wish", the continued relevance of a battle against the British (except Raworth, of course) and their "dead" meters, the use of an ascertainment of "lineage" as a stand-in for "deep reading," etc. I think of these as strategies of "Balkanization" that are not useful, are blind politics, and seem terribly dated. Worse (I've just thought of this), these concepts don't really give us tools to look at literatures that are not primarily white, and not primarily American. For example, these lines in the sand don't exist for Australian literature -- though there was a New American-style rebellion in the sixties, it produced very stanzaic poets like John Forbes, Martin Johnson and John Tranter, and radicalism was still tied to some form of Surrealism due, I think, to the Ern Malley incident -- nor does it is exist in Asian American poetry, which I learned when working on Premonitions with Walter Lew. They do exist in some ways, but it's more complex than saying that Theresa Cha and Gerry Shikatani reflect an interest in big-M "Modernism" that poets like Arthur Sze or David Mura don't immediately have. If the argument is for a thing called "Asian American poetry" -- and I've argued that such a thing might not exist -- but if so, then the universe of that poetry must be incredibly diverse and rich, heterogenous and electric, not just depicted as a rivulet departing from the so called "avant-garde" line. Asian American poetry is not "better" because "we" are no longer just "telling our stories" -- that historical determinism (expressed in one of RS's essays) has always seemed offensive to me, for obvious reasons, but also simple-minded. What has come out of this debate, to me, is that more poets of the "alternative" current are very astute and willing "deep readers" in a standard (not necessarily "New Critical") sense, and that these methods of deep reading have only been somewhat problematized by the changes of reading tactics advocated by poststructuralism, etc. Certain readings of Silliman's Non have utilized tactics that are not that different than those used for "Skunk Hour," even if the conclusions as to the "content" (or just what side of the political coin one is) are different. And these tactics have been effective, if not getting "us" closer to what "good" writing is without stylistic prescriptions. But for example: the Battaillian excessive flows of McCaffery's reading of bill bissett in North of Intention, with its stress on the ludic and excess, have rarely if ever been evoked, or if so in the somewhat less rigorous form of polysemia -- which in other terms can simply mean "ambiguity," a word one associates with William Empson. I haven't read Empson, however, so I can't say more. The Brechtian "v-effekt," which Bernstein writes about in "Artifice of Absorption" (Silliman blogs about this, also) is also not being used critically -- so has the critical approaches of Language poets really made their mark? Likewise for Projective Verse: are any of "our" poets really taking a stand against the "verse that print bred"? I still think that, often, linguo-Marxist strategies of understanding the material of language can be more usefully applied to a "conservative" poem like "Skunk Hour" -- or "Having a Coke with You" -- than can often be applied to "avant-garde" poems, and that these are better poems because of, not in spite of, their narrative attributes and relationship to the history of poetic form. Spatializing the words "Polish Rider," "coke," and "Frick," however effectively done and giving us a sense of language's "materiality" (a term I rarely use myself), does not quite provide us with the meat for a precise hermeneutic strategy that gets us closer to the world. The poems in Ashbery's Tennis Coart Oath or Coolidge's Space have emotional nuances that are rarely written about. And pomo reading strategies, in my naive view, were created for reading narrative and "linear" poems, and don't necessarily argue for the need to break away from these forms. On a more selfish note: I (along with a few others) have been trying for several years (quietly) to come up with a language for describing poems -- in my reviews for Boston Review and Publisher's Weekly, the "little reviews" series on this blog and on arras.net, on Jacket, in Rain Taxi and the St. Mark's Newsletter, etc. -- that try to focus on specific effects in poems in spite of where an author might have gathered his or her experience with language, and to introduce new, mostly non-US American, names into the mix (admittedly mostly Scottish, British and Australian), not to mention a way to describe poems that don't rely on one's knowledge of, and unquestioned reverence for, the esteemed American avant-garde masters. In fact, finding a way to modify these appreciations without causing wild dismay has been another project. (I'm monolingual -- with the exception of being able to sing most of "Die Ballade Uber die Sexuelle Horigkeit" at the drop of a hat -- and go in fear of translations, but it would be a great thing to see some convincing writing on non-English language poetry -- something that makes the work exciting and not merely good for you as a taste of the "other." My only real attempt has been something on Christophe Tarkos in the Little Reviews.) So it's seemed, reading parts of Silliman's Blog, like a shuttling back to a (golden) stone age to see that someone is actually dissuading readers from reading British poetry (claiming the meters are flat or adherent to a dead heritage -- the "past"), or reading outside of a presumed counter-formation, or railing against a lineage that includes Bryant and Holmes (my American Library 19th Century American Poetry volume is quite fascinating to me, actually), etc., as if that's better for you, one, we, it, and has something to do with the future. I'm probably exaggerating, but I'd like to hear the arguments otherwise, if only just to hear them made fresh again, and thereby reflect favorably back on the entire "avant-garde" project in the US (which methinks, still, was "quiet" compared to the French one -- so there). Thanks everyone who chimed in about these minor rants, on the poetics list and elsewhere. Punch Drunk Love was great, by the way. ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:26:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: News from Cuneiform: Homepage @ Duration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cuneiform Press is pleased to announce that our homepage is now up and = running at Duration. See: http://www.cuneiformpress.com/. =20 Recently: =20 > David Pavelich's Outlining There are 100 copies of this chapbook printed in blue, black, purple, = violet, red and copper inks on Zerkall paper in the month of May. = Pamphlet-sewn and wrapped in bright yellow dust-jacket from the Fabriano = Mills of Italy. $10.00 includes S & H. > Kiosk: A Journal of Poetry, Poetics & Prose=20 This year's issue includes works by Louis Cabri, Abby Child, Rae = Armantrout, Craig Dworkin, Pattie McCarthy, Hannah Weiner and many = others. Feature on Leslie Fiedler includes contributions by Robert = Creeley, Raymond Federman,& Bill Sylvester. 292 pages perfect-bound with = cover art by Lara Odell. $4.00 includes S & H. > The Perishable Press Limited: A Retrospective Exhibition (1964-2003) This checklist was composed by Kyle Schlesinger for an exhibition of = titles from Walter Hamady's celebrated Perishable Press Limited. Hosted = by the Grolier Club from February 18 - April 26, 2003 with titles from = the collection of the Poetry/Rare Books Collection at SUNY Buffalo. Forthcoming Titles From: Gregg Biglieri Reading Keats to Sleep [Book-work] Robert Creeley Oh, Do You Remember... [Broadside] Gil Ott's The Amputated Toe [Book-work] Derek Beaulieu's With Wax [Broadside] Best Wishes, Kyle P.S. Thanks to Christopher W. Alexander and Jerrold Shiroma for their = generous assistance in the transition from the tablets to the web. 383 Summer Street Buffalo, New York 14213 http://www.cuneiformpress.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:40:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: P R O T O b y t e Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , dreamtime@yahoogroups.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com, spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PROTObyte FONT early pictographs are early cognoscenti, storing in perpetuity information both abstract & symbolic, sometimes untranslatable. diffusionist archeology traces world trade to pre 3000 BC & it should not be a surprise that glyphic synonyms appear half a world apart, placed in new contexts, acquiring new uses. such markings are inscribed with a resonant meaning unlike alphabetic-molecular thinking. a glyph is an expression of possible linkages to sound, image & meaning. PROTObyte glyphs are chosen from Linear B, Indus Valley Script, Snake River, Cretan, Elamite, Iberian, the Oahpse Bible & a bit of Coptic. Interweave language before your eyes. Designed by mIEKAL aND. June 2003. Keymap | Download Mac or PC truetype http://www.spidertangle.net/PROTObyte/font.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:42:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: parks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of poets writing in and around parks?* not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think of this==== i myself do a lot of writing in fields---i often find myself attracted to big empty spots in the urban landscape, those forgotten or undeveloped little pockets allowed by neglect to flourish---"The Eyes of The Roses," though not referencing this directly, was written last night in just such a field--- bliss l ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:57:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks philip whalen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit two in parks by Philip Whalen GOLDEN GATE PARK A row of blossoming flowers a row of people 2 lines of people several hundred yards apart moving in the same direction. The space between the individuals in each of the lines is interesting. The speed of the walkers in each line seems to be the same. 25:viii.63 --------------------------------------- JAPANESE TEA GARDEN GOLDEN GATE PARK IN SPRING 1. I come to look at the cherryblossoms for the last time 2. Look up through flower branching Deva world (happy ignorance) 3. These blossoms will be gone in a week I'll be gone long before. That is to say, the cherry trees will blossom every year but I'll disappear for good, one of these days. There. That's all about the absolute permanence of the most impossibly fragile delicate and fleeting objects. By objects, I mean this man who is writing this, the stars, bakedham, as well as the cherryblossoms. This doesn't explain anything. 2:iv:65 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis LaCook" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: parks > *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of > poets writing in and > around parks?* > > > not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's > "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think > of this==== > > i myself do a lot of writing in fields---i often find > myself attracted to big empty spots in the urban > landscape, those forgotten or undeveloped little > pockets allowed by neglect to flourish---"The Eyes of > The Roses," though not referencing this directly, was > written last night in just such a field--- > > bliss > l > > > > > ===== > > > NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ > > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > > tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:35:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corina Copp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all poets and friends: I am looking for an apartment, and thought, what better way to get the word out. Hope no one minds the non-poetic nature of such a post. Ideally: a studio or 1BR in Ft. Greene, Red Hook/Navy Yard, Prospect Heights, Park Slope, Windsor Terrace, Greenpoint, Williamsburg, LIC, Sunnyside, Woodside, or Astoria (obviously--I'm flexible on location) for about $800-900. If ANYONE knows anything coming up for/around Sept. 1, please let me know. I'm a 24 y/o old F writer--currently employed at Brooklyn Academy of Music and looking forward to working at St. Mark's Poetry Project as Program Assistant this coming fall (hey, that's official; FYI, anyway!). I have good references, credit, no pets, no smoking. Am quite creative and generally, people like me. :) Thanks so much. Please feel free to pass this on to your friends and neighbors! Best, Corina Copp home: 718-636-0943 work: 718-636-4100 x4677 home email: crinelle@earthlink.net work email: ccopp@bam.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:57:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: parks MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Gregory Corso has a lovely park poem in The Happy Birthday of Death. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis LaCook" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: parks > *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of > poets writing in and > around parks?* > > > not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's > "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think > of this==== > > i myself do a lot of writing in fields---i often find > myself attracted to big empty spots in the urban > landscape, those forgotten or undeveloped little > pockets allowed by neglect to flourish---"The Eyes of > The Roses," though not referencing this directly, was > written last night in just such a field--- > > bliss > l > > > > > ===== > > > NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ > > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > > tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:36:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Matt, Analogies from linguistics. You could say (as Brian suggests) that the way I rhetorically positioned, as the opening lines of my quotation from Non, the following three, Titles are often misleading, subtitles seldom are, was in order to read them hypotactically (hypo means beneath), letting this statement about titles and subtitles inform my reading of the rest of the quotation from Non, as if it lay beneath the next few sentences as an interpretive guide, subordinating them to its title/subtitle logic. In the 19C century novel (Balzac) that I was referring to, you could think of (as Silliman does) characters, chapter titles, the plot itself, etc. as hypotactically organizing/suibordinating the elements of language (letters, words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs). Silliman argued that hypotaxis takes a reader’s mind away from noticing language as language, words as words (let alone letters as letters): you get caught up in the story and forget that you’re reading, you walk through the materiality of language like it was air to be taken for granted. Parataxis (para, beside), on the other hand, like Scott says, occurs when language is not subordinated in this way. Parataxis doesn’t mean you don’t read for connections between stanzas/sentence, though, only that the connections are subtle and registered at a minute level of letters, sounds, words, as well as at the level of the sentence and line, and, stanza. I can’t write more, have to get back to work. But I ask you, don’t you think figuring out how these sentences/lines connect is equally if not more important than reading them in independent succession with only a Don’t Worry, Be Happy approach (not that you're taking that) to why/what they are where/as they are: Meet my personality. A dead man’s whistle could seem inexact. I don’t want to get my feathers hot. Bag lady stands in (opening stanza from Toner) Realism is words in situ, he says somewhere in Toner. This has been a pedagogical moment brought to you by Idle Minute. Idle Minute: when the stern face of hypotaxis beckons Work! take a paratactic moment out of your day, and give an Idle Minute. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:48:10 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: parks & walkability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Corso's park poem that Daniel Zimmerman noticed begins: In this park the children speak Italian and do not mind the naked statues as did the children who spoke French in another park making jokes at Hercules. But the same with all children in all parks -- bouncing balls with yawns. THE poem then continues for about fifty lines. A similar genre of poem is the walk in nature poem, such as Coleridge's great "This Lime-Tree Bower my Prison," in which Coleridge has spilled boiled milk on his foot and so can't go for a walk up to a bluff overlooking a sea with many islands and ships past ravines and natural flower beds. It's addressed to Charles Lamb, who's on the walk. Lamb's sister just killed their mother, so Charles is a little depressed, and Coleridge imagines his friend cheering up: and not a swallow twitters, Yet still the solitary humble-bee Sings in the bean-flower! Coleridge is asking nature to do its best to help out his sad friend by turning up the aesthetics to the brightest pitch Kindle, thou blue ocean! I've had students write imaginary walks for depressed friends in which they get to see stuff like moose and bear and couples making love, and silver bats. It's not a bad exercise in terms of what you get. A similar kind of walk poem is Wordsworth's Michael -- again it is not a park, but a rural area that you get a tour of -- Weren't there also some parks in the Buffalo area that were made or set aside by Robert Moses, who built so much in this state? There is this melancholy little poem by Sara Teasdale, who committed suicide in Greenwich Village in 1933. It begins: Gramercy Park The little park was filled with peace, The walks were carpeted with snow, But every iron gate was locked, Lest if we entered, peace would go. We circled it a dozen times, The wind was blowing from the sea... She also has miserable little poems about Coney Island, Riverside Park, etc. The point is to play the beauty off her miserable state of mind, I think. Thanks for bringing up this idea. I think the whole deal about parks, and walkability -- is related to the places to live thread that we opened a while back. Beaverton is one of the least walkable towns in America -- while Portland just ten miles away is one of the most walkable. That's I think what makes Paris such a great city for poets -- its walkability. There's plenty to see -- one isn't overwhelmed by traffic. It's perfectly possible to walk ten hours a day in Paris and almost never notice it. Some people love to hike in the countryside, but I like a walkable city. We haven't got very many of these. What are the most walkable cities in America? I've heard that Houston is not walkable. There is nothing to see because the skyscrapers go right down to the sidewalk with hard blue glass that you can't look into, and some places there's no sidewalk at all. I have a feeling that Cambridge would be walkable. Is there any park in America that tops NY's Central Park for walkability -- and when you're tired you can get a soft pretzel or an ice cream cone or sit and look at how well people's pants fit their bodies -- butts, the looseness of the legs, whether they have the right length. It's pretty rare that pants fit, I find. Another interesting thing is to look at how well noses fit faces. You need a lot of distracted people walking past, and Central Park is very good for that. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:27:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: parks & walkability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Portions of my "Inside the Skull-House" was written in Forest Park, Portland, OR., which, at 5000 acres and growing, with forty miles of trail, is the largest urban park in the country, more forest than park. Some texts of my work there begin at: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/Skull-10/parie-1.htm -Joel W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:48 AM Subject: Re: parks & walkability > Corso's park poem that Daniel Zimmerman noticed begins: > > In this park > the children speak Italian > and do not > mind the naked statues > as did the children > who spoke French in another park > making jokes at Hercules. > But the same with all children in all parks > -- bouncing balls with yawns. > > THE poem then continues for about fifty lines. > > A similar genre of poem is the walk in nature poem, such as Coleridge's great > "This Lime-Tree Bower my Prison," in which Coleridge has spilled boiled milk on > his foot and so can't go for a walk up to a bluff overlooking a sea with many > islands and ships past ravines and natural flower beds. It's addressed to > Charles Lamb, who's on the walk. Lamb's sister just killed their mother, so > Charles is a little depressed, and Coleridge imagines his friend cheering up: > > and not a swallow twitters, > Yet still the solitary humble-bee > Sings in the bean-flower! > > Coleridge is asking nature to do its best to help out his sad friend by turning > up the aesthetics to the brightest pitch > > Kindle, thou blue ocean! > > I've had students write imaginary walks for depressed friends in which they get > to see stuff like moose and bear and couples making love, and silver bats. > It's not a bad exercise in terms of what you get. > > A similar kind of walk poem is Wordsworth's Michael -- again it is not a park, > but a rural area that you get a tour of -- > > Weren't there also some parks in the Buffalo area that were made or set aside > by Robert Moses, who built so much in this state? There is this melancholy > little poem by Sara Teasdale, who committed suicide in Greenwich Village in > 1933. It begins: > > > > Gramercy Park > > The little park was filled with peace, > The walks were carpeted with snow, > But every iron gate was locked, > Lest if we entered, peace would go. > > We circled it a dozen times, > The wind was blowing from the sea... > > She also has miserable little poems about Coney Island, Riverside Park, etc. > The point is to play the beauty off her miserable state of mind, I think. > > Thanks for bringing up this idea. I think the whole deal about parks, and > walkability -- is related to the places to live thread that we opened a while > back. Beaverton is one of the least walkable towns in America -- while > Portland just ten miles away is one of the most walkable. That's I think what > makes Paris such a great city for poets -- its walkability. There's plenty to > see -- one isn't overwhelmed by traffic. It's perfectly possible to walk ten > hours a day in Paris and almost never notice it. Some people love to hike in > the countryside, but I like a walkable city. We haven't got very many of > these. What are the most walkable cities in America? I've heard that Houston > is not walkable. There is nothing to see because the skyscrapers go right down > to the sidewalk with hard blue glass that you can't look into, and some places > there's no sidewalk at all. > > I have a feeling that Cambridge would be walkable. > > Is there any park in America that tops NY's Central Park for walkability -- and > when you're tired you can get a soft pretzel or an ice cream cone or sit and > look at how well people's pants fit their bodies -- butts, the looseness of the > legs, whether they have the right length. It's pretty rare that pants fit, I > find. Another interesting thing is to look at how well noses fit faces. You > need a lot of distracted people walking past, and Central Park is very good for > that. > > -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:18:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: parks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Savage's poem "Nightwalk in Tompins Park" (the title maybe slightly different) is a fantastic poem. Murat In a message dated 7/16/03 2:24:47 PM, llacook@YAHOO.COM writes: >*what are examples of poems written in parks, or of >poets writing in and >around parks?* > > >not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's >"wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think >of this==== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:19:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Did you see the news today???? Comments: cc: stefanie In-Reply-To: <002501c34bd0$5afe4580$9cfdfc83@oemcomputer> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable They are finally breaking it to us (below) (surprise) complete with Para tactical - no conjunction required - Vietnam analogs. It is curious to be in a generation (mine) to have this happen twice. The only thing special is that "we" are responding much quicker this time. Unfortunately Iraq is a much deeper quagmire. It is going to be more and more curious and so ironic to see this country crawl back to the United Nations begging for some kind of rescue scenario. Course with these neo-con artists, it could be out of Iraq and on to North Korea. OY, Stephen V =80 Washington Post Press Wednesday, July 16, 2003; 3:28 PM - U.S. forces are facing a "classical guerrilla-type war situation" in Iraq against opponents ranging from members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party to non-Iraqi fighters from terrorist groups, the new American commander said Wednesday. The statement from Gen. John Abizaid was the first acknowledgment from a to= p military official that the attacks on American forces were anything more than scattered, sporadic incidents. He said attackers were becoming better organized. Abizaid also said U.S. troops should be ready to spend a year on duty in th= e region, though military planners are working to bring home some units quickly, such as the Army's 3rd Infantry Division. "Looking at what I contemplate being the force levels for a while, probably for the next 90 days, we need to probably say to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, 'Here's the maximum extent of your deployment. If we ca= n get you home sooner, we will,'" Abizaid said in a briefing at the Pentagon. Yearlong deployments, a norm during the Vietnam War, have been rare in recent years. The 1st Armored Division served in Bosnia for a year during the 1990s, Abizaid said. "So we've done it before, and we can do it again," he said. Etc.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:18:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Did you see the news today???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Stephen, Been watching it all day (internet). "Good" to see, as it were -- i.e., the questioning of socios getting tougher, the news articles getting more demanding (like Meet the Press grilling Rumsfeld last Sunday, more and more cornering him, I think). (Incidentally, I don't know how many readers here check out Yahoo on a regular basis, but there is one small (maybe very small) but hopefully effective thing I do there. I "rate" all the newspaper articles Yahoo puts out -- "1" equaling Won't Recommend and "5" for "Highly Recommend," -- and of course rate the articles that can be interpreted as Anti-Bush as 5's and those that I infer as Good-for-Bush as 1's. It's obviously a very small gesture, but I believe a lot of people are doing it, more and more, and I think it may have a small, useful effect (at very least providing Yahoo and other news sources what kind(s) of articles are getting read and recommended and which are "not selling"); it beats feeling of powerlessness. Anyway, it's something small but perhaps useful that folks who have to work on computers all day long or like to get news from the internet in "leisure" hours might find meaningful. By the way, your post on the Silliman/Burger reading was excellent. Would like to have been able to attend (and surely would have were I in SF area). You're right on, imo, in you assessment of RS's merit and the notion that his texts will stand for a long, long time. You know, he gets the archetype Zukovsky's "sincerity" into, or should I say throughout, his poetry book after book AND he gets subject matter(s) infinite that are informed by much of the most advanced "thought" of our times. (What more can a reader ask for?) I could say a lot more, but it behooves me to similarly find ways to make improvements of my own writing that slacks off into "burden" (Williams) too easily (if not in a lot of cases "fundamentally"). What does Duncan say, that "neither our virtues nor our vices advance the poem," or something to that effect. And yet there is still a "division between truth (?) and beauty (materiality, "sincerity") that I'd like to get beyond once and for all (for myself) someday (probably a "division" that is only my illusion, admittedly). Ah, but I'm already saying a lot more than I intended. Oh, and I've added Mary Burger to my must read/buy list(s), too, following reading that RS had recommended. (Others are probably already properly familiar with her writing.) Sincerely... :) Steve Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:17:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Done it again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ummm, Zukofsky... (Geez, I should just dig a hole and bury myself sometimes.) Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:20:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: hard story thing theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hard story thing theory i started this search just getting ready to eat some space cakes when hottie walks by the window knock on glass and get her come inside she is totally cool has a pair of knockers bursting through sweater got talking convinced back my room with me it was as easy 123 one Just chillin trying something noticed smoking hot brunette chilling there reading Sheeven had those highlights in hair making luck extra Plus big full lips that driving crazy go truck all happened from baby lookin for new glassware wraps cutie comes up behind counter joking awhile could see kinda liberal so busted out question action loot like nothing at first said no way amount money offered what did do? offer more groove hangin around favorite tattoo spot girl town checkin ink going but wanted too expensive told would take then have enough bite sitting herself newspaper thought might company went over talk very open having someone join straight into hard story thing if make few bucks this is how it happens idea walks into mind and mind follows hungry for scent of idea and offers everything can't sleep at night for objet petit a always before and trace afterward the scent of mind following it keeps on there is no returning back to mind there losing amazing force in continuous display it's not mind fault or the victim objet petit a no victim contract among constituents or mind components ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:32:11 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Re: [spidertangle] P R O T O b y t e Comments: To: "spidertangle@yahoogroups.com" , "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , "dreamtime@yahoogroups.com" , "webartery@yahoogroups.com" , "spidertangle@yahoogroups.com" dreamtime@yahoogroups.com>, "webartery@yahoogroups.com" , " spidertangle@yahoogroups.com" < spidertangle@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [spidertangle] P R O T O b y t e Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:32:11 +0000 X-Mailer: IlohaMail/0.7.11 (On: webmail.gol.com) In-Reply-To: <2799EA7E-B7AC-11D7-9D96-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> From: Bounce-To: Errors-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I never thought something cut or written on bone, stone, wood, leather, paper, steel, iron, brass, water, wine or fog (forgot snow and ice!)etc. could be considered a member of the cognoscenti, early or otherwise. Keep swinging! Jess On 7/16/2003, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: >PROTObyte FONT > >early pictographs are early cognoscenti, storing in perpetuity >information both abstract & symbolic, sometimes untranslatable. >diffusionist archeology traces world trade to pre 3000 BC & it should >not be a surprise that glyphic synonyms appear half a world apart, >placed in new contexts, acquiring new uses. such markings are >inscribed with a resonant meaning unlike alphabetic-molecular thinking. > a glyph is an expression of possible linkages to sound, image & >meaning. PROTObyte glyphs are chosen from Linear B, Indus Valley >Script, Snake River, Cretan, Elamite, Iberian, the Oahpse Bible & a bit >of Coptic. Interweave language before your eyes. Designed by mIEKAL >aND. June 2003. > > >Keymap | Download Mac or PC truetype >http://www.spidertangle.net/PROTObyte/font.html > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate & Male Health. $28.97 >http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865&lp=prosta2.html >http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/H3qrlB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >S P I D E R T A N G L E Projects listed at: >http://cla.umn.edu/joglars/spidertangle > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >spidertangle-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:34:07 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: How Bush Won in 2004 Comments: To: ImitaPo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: FC: Scoop.co.nz: Huge problems with U.S. elections technology Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:13:08 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh Reply-To: declan@well.com To: politech@politechbot.com [I'm not in a position to vouch for the authenticity of this report but am forwarding it along because Alastair (an enthusiastic, splendid muckraker) has been a reliable source in the past. --Declan] --- From: "Scoop Editor - Alastair Thompson" To: alastair@scoop.co.nz Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:36:07 +1200 Subject: U.S. Election Security Scoop Of The Century.... VERY IMPORTANT Dear All, Apologies about the BCC, this is going out to a very select and very powerful list of individuals and I do not want the list distributed more widely. I am writing to you because you are either a reporter, columnist, list owner or website who has in the past dealt with Scoop.co.nz. You are our friends and we want your help. We have just broken probably the biggest story in the history of Scoop and possibly one of the biggest stories in the history of the Internet. We want your assistance and attention. To cut to the chase, working with Bev Harris we have just revealed a hole in the U.S. Electoral system through which you could drive a mack truck. The details follow below and are at the following two links... with pictures.... This story is extremely sensitive and potentially explosive. There can be no doubt whatsoever that powerful commercial interests will be acting swiftly to either put a lid on this story, neutralise it via misinformation or take legal action. It is vital therefore that it receive as much exposure as possible as quickly as possible. Here is what I want you to do. If you are a columnist or reporter: Please either write about this yourself - perhaps linking to our source materials - or bring this to the attention of your editor(s) and attemptto get your news organisation to carry a matching or followup story. If you are a webmaster: Please either repost the stories linked below and included at the foot of this email, or post links to them. If you are a list owner: Please post an item on this to your list and encourage your list members to further distribute this story; Finally, and I appreciate we are asking a lot here. Can I encourage you all to talk about this story with your colleagues and email it to friends and acquaintances, particularly politically active people in the United States. Thanks and regards Alastair Thompson Scoop Media New Zealand ARTICLES ATTACHED THESE ARE LOCATED AT Inside A U.S. Election Vote Counting Program http://www.scoop.co. nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm & Sludge Report #154 - Bigger Than Watergate! http://www.scoop.co. nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00064.htm Sludge Report #154 - Bigger Than Watergate! In This Edition: Bigger Than Watergate! - How To Rig An Election In The United States - Fantasy vs Reality - How We Discovered The Backdoor - Evidence Of Motive - Evidence Of Opportunity - Evidence Of Method - Evidence Of Prior Conduct - Consistent Unexplained Circumstantial Evidence IMPORTANT NOTE: Publication of this story marks a watershed in American political history. It is offered freely for publication in full or part on any and all internet forums, blogs and noticeboards. All other media are also encouraged to utilise material. Readers are encouraged to forward this to friends and acquaintances in the United States and elsewhere. [snip --see urls above --declan] --- From: "Scoop Editor - Alastair Thompson" To: alastair@scoop.co.nz Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:47:00 +1200 Dear All. A followup story on the Voting machine story. This article is useful as it fills in some of the gaps in the logic in the first one. Firstly it shows that Diebold is in the habit of lying about its systems to election supervisors. Secondly it shows - quoting people working on the Georgia election system installation programme - that the FTP site from which the data is now available was being used extensively in the run-up to the 2002 mid-term election. Thirdly it illustrates that "quality control" and "testing" are dirty words at Diebold Elections Systems. http://www.scoop.co. nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00078.htm Bald-Faced Lies About Black Box Voting Machines and The Truth About the Rob-Georgia File By Bev Harris * The Full text is copied below. You know what to do... Post, inform, illuminate... Bald-Faced Lies About Black Box Voting Machines Bald-Faced Lies About Black Box Voting Machines and The Truth About the Rob-Georgia File By Bev Harris * * Bev Harris is the Author of the soon to be published book " Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering In The 21st Century " Pre order at... http://www.blackboxvoting.com Scoop.co.nz has now revealed for the first time the location of a complete online copy of the original data set. As we anticipate attempts to prevent the distribution of this information we encourage supporters of democracy to make copies of these files and to make them available on websites and file sharing networks. http://users.actrix.co.nz/dolly/ Download the Diebold files (See also... http://www.scoop.co. nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm Inside A U.S. Election Vote Counting Program and http://www.scoop.co. nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00064.htm Sludge Report #154 - Bigger Than Watergate!**) A Diebold touchscreen voting machine Makers of the walk right in, sit right down, replace ballot tallies with your own GEMS vote counting program. CONTENTS LIES TRUTH ABOUT ROB-GEORGIA Someone needs to get their story straight. Diebold voting machines are used in 37 states. The entire state of Ohio is considering dumping its old system to buy Diebold. Georgia already did. The Diebold files, supposedly secret voting machine files left on an unprotected web site for nearly six years, are unlocking the truth. Official stories about voting machine security, acceptance testing and last-minute program changes are beginning to slide around like hot grease on a Georgia griddle. What was the program patch known as rob-georgia.zip used for? What were they doing with that ftp site, anyway? Hang in for the first part of this article, the finger-pointing and obfuscating part, because it concludes with a straightforward explanation of what went on in Georgia that has never been made public before. ************** DO ANY OF THESE PEOPLE TELL THE TRUTH? "We protect the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. We protect the Hope Diamond," [Diebold CEO Wally] O'Dell told The Plain Dealer in May 2002. "Now, we protect the most sacred treasure we have, our secret ballot." If they can't tell us the truth about simple things like "does it connect to modems," can we really be confident that they are protecting our vote? CNBC asked Diebold CEO Wally O'Dell this question on election day, Nov. 5, 2002: "How tamper proof are these voting machines? That seems to be a concern of some who feel that it only takes one person, one hacker who can screw up an entire election. How valid is that criticism Mr. O`Dell?" "Well, there`s always risks," replied O'Dell, "but, you know, these things are not connected to the Internet. They`re individual precinct by precinct, location by location. They`re double checked before they`re sent out. We think the technology is fabulous and very bulletproof. (Come back here after reading rob-georgia, ask him to repeat this.) "The GEMS computers are not connected to any communication system, including the Internet, and contain no software other than the Windows operating system and the Global Election Management System object code," wrote Dr. Brit Williams on Apr. 23, 2003. He is the official voting machine certifier for the state of Georgia, and a key member of the panel that chooses national Independent Testing Labs for voting machines. Lies. "The central host system (GEMS Software) is generally a stand-alone system so that no physical access via network is allowed...This computer can download files for the Internet with dial-out only capability, but is generally not allowed to be linked to the Internet for obvious security concerns. This, in documents submitted during a purchasing decision, answering questions from Santa Clara County, California on Feb. 7, 2003. If the GEMS computer isn't connected to anything, why is the following diagram found in a file named GApresentation3-02.zip, found on the Diebold ftp site? This diagram depicts the GEMS computer connecting directly to the Internet on election night. CLICK IMAGE FOR BIG VERSION Not connected to any communication system are they, Dr. Williams? I spoke with James Rellinger, the technician who installed all 159 GEMS host computers in Georgia. Harris: "I understand that you worked for Diebold Election Systems in Georgia. Can you tell me what you did?" Rellinger: "They contracted us here in Georgia to basically follow a recipe book and we ran down and built these things." Harris: "By 'build these things' -- I think of build, like a hammer and a screwdriver -- What do you mean by build, what were you building?" Rellinger: "Oh, that's a good point. There were 159 of these servers that went out. All we did was run through a series of tests to make sure they could log on and communicate and make sure everything jived with the touch screen. "When you say build they were actually just a Dell server and we added some hardware to it for instance CD burners, a tape came in them already, but we'd add things to make them modem capable. "When you say build a server it's not physically assembling a hardware. We added a component or two to make it do what we needed to do, modems, we load the Windows 2000, put the software in then we test it against their touch-screen machines." Let's look at just how big a whopper Dr. Williams told when he said they aren't connected to anything: Sandy Baxter, Elections Supervisor for San Juan County, Washington, also says she had modems and Internet capability: "I think it was about 1999 we bought a new server. They gave us recommendations for servers, like Dell. They had Dell ship them to McKinney, Texas and they loaded the systems on and various modems, digiboards and stuff...The server can handle multiple PCs, but I only have one at this time, so my PC is also my server...I have two modems. I have a modem that is for going out and it is not connected to the GEMS system. So I can go to the web. I have what's called a digiboard on my server that allows multiple modem connections. I have a second modem on the GEMS system but its only for the AccuVote systems. My precincts modem me the results on that. The second modem is the only one that goes to my GEMS system. It doesn't have the capability to go in and out. I just plug it in when I use it." The User Manuals are filled with references to modems, ports, uploading, downloading, TCP/IP protocols, transmissions, and ways to use "JResults" to upload to the web continuously on election night. Technical specifications, including manufacturer's components lists, show that not only are there modems, but wireless communications. All right, so they lied to us about modem hook-ups. Shall we let this cloud our trust in everything else they are telling us? Consider this: Diebold's official spokesman, Joseph Richardson assures us that the open ftp site was inactive. In interviews with Salon.com and the Baltimore City Paper, he said the site was old and the files were out of date. Was this the truth? Not at all. The site was taken down on Jan. 29, 2003. The most recent file on the ftp site is dated Jan. 23, 2003. How much information was in the files? See for yourself by visiting the download site at the top of this article. Michael Barnes, of the elections division with the Georgia Secretary of State's office, said "That ftp site did not affect us in any way shape or form because we did not do any file transferring from it." Let's have Dr. Brit Williams weigh in. In Feb. 2003, he said "I'm not familiar with that site." On April 23, he wrote a letter that was a bit more precise: "Apparently, there was an FTP site that Diebold employees used to store and transfer versions of the system that were under development. The contents, or even existence, of the 'rob georgia' folder has not been established. However, for the sake of this discussion, we will assume that the FTP site existed... This would have had absolutely no effect on the election system as implemented in Georgia. The State does not obtain its election system code from an FTP site or even from Diebold." Dr. Williams went on to outline an elaborate scheme whereby he claimed that the program files are obtained solely from ITAs (Independent Testing Labs). What about the Secretary of State? A memo by Chris Riggall, spokesperson for Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox, stated that last minute "patches" were installed on all 22,000 voting machines in Georgia. Dr. Williams admitted to me that they were never examined -- not by a testing lab, not by him, not by anyone outside of Diebold. Suddenly, no one could get their stories straight on the patches either. The patch was from Microsoft and it was for Windows, said the Secretary of State's office. But wait -- Dr. Williams says it came directly from the ITA. What does Diebold say? Diebold says they have no indication there ever was a patch. We're going to meet one of the guys who actually installed that patch in a minute, but first let us observe the art of evasion from Diebold's Joe Richardson: Harris: "Did you say, when interviewed by Salon.com, in reference to whether patches were put on the machines in Georgia, "We have analyzed that situation and have no indication of that happening at all." Richardson: "Well, that is what I said at the time, however, we have continued to investigate the matter and ... (very, very long pause) Yes that is what I said to Salon.com." Harris: "Do you stand by that now?" Richardson: "We have continued to look into the matter." Harris: "As you have continued to investigate this, do you have any new information as to whether patches were put on in Georgia?" Richardson: "No." Harris: "Has anyone thought to just call them up and ask? The Secretary of State's office?" Richardson: "I can't say." Harris: "What was the rob-georgia file? Who is responsible for it?" Richardson: "I'm not privy to that information." Harris: "Who would be able to answer that question?" Richardson: "I can't tell you. I can look into it." Harris: "Yes, could you do that please? In two publications, you are quoted as saying that the information on the open FTP site was old and out of date. Yet, I can tell you the most recent file on it was dated January 16, 2003. Did you do any checking to see whether the site had been used recently when you made that statement?" (A more recent file, dated Jan. 23, was later discovered.) Richardson: "The site had already been taken down." Harris: "Surely Diebold has access to its own site?" Richardson: "I'm saying I didn't have access." Harris: "Did you ask anybody?" Richardson: (sound of shuffling papers) "Our ongoing investigation has found no merit to the insinuations of security breaches in our election solutions." Harris: "So if there were up to 20,000 files including hardware, software specs, testing protocols, source code, you do not feel that is a security breach?" (more files have since been discovered inside a mammoth zipped directory, bringing the estimated total up to nearly 40,000 files) Richardson: "Our ongoing investigation has found no merit to the insinuations of security breaches in our election solutions." And now, Dr. Brit Williams on the Georgia patch: Harris: What was the security around the creation of the cards used to implement the patch? Williams: "That's a real good question. Like I say, we were in the heat of the election. Some of the things we did, we probably compromised security a little bit -- Let me emphasize we've gone back since the election and done extensive testing on all this." Dr. Williams latest 180 degree reversal (This link leads you to a forum discussing files from the ftp site, which contains several absurd statements from Dr. Williams). And now, Michael Barnes on the Georgia patch: Barnes: "Wyle said it did not affect the certification elements. So it did not need to be certified." (at the above-referenced link, you can also find information from a Freedom of Information Act request, in which officials admitted they did not have any certifying documents on the patch). Harris: "Where's the written report from Wyle on that? Can I have a copy?" Barnes: "I'd have to look for it I don't know if there was ever a written report by Wyle. It might have been by phone." ************** The Truth About Rob-Georgia Everyone assured me they knew of no one named Rob. Move along. But I received an e-mail: "I think I may be the Rob in rob-georgia," it said. And now I know why they didn't want us to interview him. I think you'll agree that his interview is worth the length, for the picture you get of what was really going on. If you prefer to skim, check the sections in blue. Citizens, meet Rob Behler, straight talker: Harris: What was the FTP site for? Behler:One of problems we had was an issue with the GEMS database. They had to do an update to it, so they just post the update to the web site. Harris: What was rob-georgia? Behler: I believe what that file was for, I did a -- well, there were a ton of holes with the programs on those machines. When they all came into the warehouse, I did a quality check, this was something I did on a Saturday. I found that 25% of the machines on the floor would fail KSU testing -- Harris: "What is KSU testing?" Behler: "Kennesaw State University. We knew basically what they would be testing and the trick was to make sure the machines would pass the testing. So I went and checked a pallet and found it was bad. And I checked another, and another, and I knew we had a problem." Harris: "Was that both you and James Rellinger?" Behler: "James dealt with the network, but I was dealing with the touchscreen machines themselves. Harris: "What kind of problems were you seeing?" Behler: "...One of the things we had wrong was the date wasn't sticking in the Windows CE. The real time clock would go to check the time on the motherboard, and it would have an invalid year in it, like 1974 or something, and basically the machine would continue to keep checking. Every time it checked, it saw that the date was not right and this put it into a loop. "They had to do an update in CE to fix all those dates. So the way we did that in the warehouse was, they would post whatever the update was on the FTP site. James would go get the file and put it on the [memory] cards. Because you load everything through the PCMCIA cards. You boot it up using the card and it loads the new software. "This was done in the warehouses -- once the machines were sent out to the county, these updates were done just to make sure the machines were running correctly. I went over to Dekalb [County]. We updated 1800 machines in basically a day and a half. I still remember ol' Rusty, down at the warehouse, we ended up touching every single machine off the pallet, booting 'em up, update it, we had a couple hundred machines done when in comes a new update over the phone. Harris: "You mean you used a modem or they called you on the phone?" Behler: "No. A phone call. They'd say 'Oh no no, the way we had you do, that's not going to work, here's another thing to do. Okay, we just did a few hundred machines, now we gotta do it this way -- But we got it done. Harris: "Did you personally ever download anything at all from the FTP site?" Behler: [it was] mostly James. Harris: "Did you work for Diebold, or James Rellinger?" Behler: "I worked for ABSS. So did James." Harris: "What about the rob-georgia file?" Behler: "I think they put it out there for me when we were doing the Dekalb thing, but I was busy managing the whole crew so, I had my laptop out, and one of the engineers used my laptop -- or maybe it was James -- one of them had to go in and get it from the FTP, put it on a card, make copies of the cards and then we used them to update the machines." Harris: "So one of the people downloaded the patch and then made copies of it?" Behler: "They use my laptop. It was not secure, either. They just used the laptop to repro the cards. Diebold never gave us anything with a PCMCIA slot, then they'd tell us, 'Go download this,' so we'd have to get out our own laptop to do it." Harris: "Who instructed you about the FTP site? Was it a Diebold employee?" Behler: "It was Diebold." Harris: "Was it the people in Ohio or the people in Texas?" Behler: "The people in McKinney [Texas]." Harris: "Who were some of the Diebold people? Do you remember any names?" Behler: "Ian. I remember one of the guys, Ian, I can't remember his last name. One of the main guys we dealt with was a guy named Ian. He was actually involved in the design of the motherboard. He was very much involved in trying to figure out how to fix the problems. So they sent us upgrades, but then after we did it KSU still failed a ton of machines." Harris: "As I understand it, they send the system to Wyle labs for certification, and also to Ciber to test the software. But from what you are describing, I can't understand how the machines got through what they are telling us is 'rigorous testing.'" Behler: "From what I understand they ended up figuring out that the cards that we were loading that fix that Diebold provided for us, well they were never tested, they just said 'Oh here's the problem, go ahead and fix it.' Harris: "So what is your opinion about the certification testing?" Behler: "No, it's not just that. NOBODY even tested it! When I found that out -- I mean you can't not test a fix -- I worked for a billing company, and if I'd put a fix on that wasn't tested I'd have gotten FIRED! You have to make sure whatever fix you did didn't break something else. But they didn't even TEST the fixes before they told us to install them. "Look, we're doing this and 50-60 percent of the machines are still freezing up! Turn it on, get one result. Turn it off and next time you turn it on you get a different result. Six times, you'd get six different results." Harris: "Can you give me an example of different results?" Behler: "Meaning the machine does something wrong different each time you boot it up. One time and it would freeze on you, next time it would load the GEMS program but have a completely different type of error, like there'd be a gray box sitting in the middle of it, or you couldn't use a field." Harris: "Was this all due to the clock?" Behler: "I don't know for sure. They [the machines] were not originally doing it. Then they fixed the real time clock, and it was supposed to make it work normal. It fixed the clock problem -- the clock problem had caused it to come up and not show the battery at one point. It was supposed to say either 'low battery,' 'high battery' or 'charging.' But when the real time clock was messed up, you'd boot the machine and it would say 'No battery!' I mean, you don't have the machine plugged in, you boot it up, and it starts, and says it 'has no battery.' That's like saying, 'this morning I got out of bed and I stood up and I had no brain.' "And that's how they ended up finding it, the problem. What it was doing was it was checking for the right time, and kept going back trying to get a better time, and while it was doing that, it was supposed to get the battery status but it was still busy trying to get the time. "And then when we loaded the software to fix that, the machines were still acting RIDICULOUS! "I was saying, 'This is not good! We need some people that know what this stuff is supposed to do, from McKinney, NOW! These machines, nobody knows what they're doing but Diebold, you need some people to fix them that know what's going on! They finally brought in guys, they ended up bringing in about 4 people. "When they left, they still did not know why it was still sporadic. My understanding is, after I was dismissed, they came back the following week. That's when they figured out what the real problem was. But they'd already had us do their 'upgrade' on thousands of machines by then." Harris: "How did this work? Did Dr. Brit Williams get the machines first and do acceptance testing, or did you guys get them first?" Behler: "When the machines came in, they came to us first. They were in the warehouse. We assembled them. They'd come in a box with a touchscreen, and another box with the booth. We assembled the machine and we ran it though series of tests. We'd check the power cord, boot up the machine, check the printer, bar code it, update Windows CE, then send it on to Brit. He did the KSU testing the L&A [Logic & Accuracy] was done at the county level, right before the election." Harris: "So...the L&A was not done at acceptance testing?" Behler: "It got so there wasn't time. They did it before the election." Harris: "How long does it take to do a Logic & Accuracy test? Doesn't it take like, 15 minutes per machine?" Behler: "When we did the updates in Dekalb, they kept saying it would take a really long time. But they don't think about the different overlapping things. You can update a bunch of machines simultaneously. Same thing with an L&A test. You have a whole group of cards, they have to touch every machine. What we had done before, we had 10 material handlers throw the machines up there, use the key to open it up, stick 10 cards in, boot 'em all up which installs the patch." Harris: "But what about the L&A testing?" Behler: "The L&A testing -- You would just enter, like, one vote and -- you just choose one -- you don't need to be specific on which one. When they did this L&A testing, that's when they did the FINAL update to the software." ... Harris: "So the touchscreens came and had to be assembled?" Behler: "Of course you have to have the touchscreens assembled in the warehouse, and do some testing. It turned out that there were a lot of problems that needed to be dealt with, and they simply weren't dealing with them." Harris: "How long did you work there?" Behler: "They let me go only one month into it. The Project Manager let me go. He didn't like my management style. I'm very matter of fact. If this is wrong, fix it. I'm a simple person -- if something is broke, do you stand around and talk about why its broke for a month, or do you solve the problem?" Harris: "After your experience with Diebold, how confident are you that the machines count votes accurately?" Behler: "If you were to ask me to tell you how accurate I thought the vote count was, I'd have to say 'no comment' because after what I saw, I have an inherent distrust of the machines. "I was absolutely astounded that they functioned at all in the election. Here's me, I'm at the polling place looking around, waiting for someone to get frustrated... "I took this because of James, who is my friend, and because I'm A-plus certified. But when I came in there was a bunch of internal bickering. They had no inventory control in the warehouse. I guarantee you that the state of Georgia can't accurately reflect where each machine is. "Diebold was impressed with what I accomplished, and asked me if I was available for some other states they'd be doing... "The problem, what they were doing with the inventory on the machine was this: Inside the case is the serial number. They would hand write the serial number on a post-it, stick it to the front of the machine, and there would be a sheet hand-written from that list. Now, you've got 20 machines sitting on a pallet. The guy making the list would look at the post-its and he'd record all the post-it numbers on a list. Look, if you're writing numbers by hand, twice, by two different people, there is a real good chance you'll transpose some numbers. Then, they used the list for bar codes, but I would say probably 1-2% of the machines are incorrectly bar coded. They couldn't track them in the Access database, because they'd punch in and it would say 'that number's already been used.' Then they'd check the machines, and they had the right number, so the wrong bar code was sitting on some machine that had already been shipped out to the counties. "Ironically, they would send a spreadsheet of all the numbers of the machines that they shipped straight from the factory. This was from the same computer that generated the labels. They had copies of it all along. I said, 'Hey guys, if you check these when they come in the door you'll never miss a label.'" "I was very down on Diebold, because they were very sluggish and didn't move well. I worked there from mid-june to mid-july. The whole time they were upgrading the software and doing some sort of fix to it. This was supposed to be prior to KSU testing." Harris: "What about the program patches begun in August?" Behler: "Aug 20, they started to put these teams together and go out and update the machines. You have to understand that the patching all started when I did the first quality check that Saturday. They'd never have done it. They had shipped us 6,000 machines and NO ONE had ever done a quality check. I'd come in on a Saturday, I had two of my sons with me, and I thought I'm going to just look. And it was bad. "Then first thing Monday morning I raised the question, I said, 'Hey guys, we've got a problem -- there's 20-25% of the machines that are palletized that are failing, and then they had a new update come out and I was doing an update, and then they sent a new one. I updated a whole bunch of machines. Then they finished about the time I left. But later they put in another one, I guess. In August. "You've gotta go take care of this JS [junk shit] equipment, I told them. Finally, I raised it as high as you go, I raised it to Bob Urosevich, he's the head of it. I told him personally, 'This is bad, I don't see us putting an election on with these machines!' "That's where they finally assembeld the teams. They got some big ol' vans we loaded up as many people as could fit in. "They were actually swapping parts out of these machines that were on site. They'd cannibalize a machine with a bad printer or whatever, they'd grab the screen off of that to put on another machine with a failing screen, they'd retest it. They were not just breaking them down, they were taking pieces off and putting it back together. "Even the machines that are updated, that had the right release of the software, exactly like the company wanted it, you'd boot it up and all kinds of crazy things would happen. That led to my belief that when voting took place, there would be problems." Harris: "Do you remember what release number it was? What version of GEMS?" Behler: "Release -- I don't remember the number because what they did was it was always the date. I had to take it to the level of these testers, they knew that the machine either did pass the test or didn't. We'd check the date to make sure it was the right version. "The date was...let me see...June 28. No, the last one, the date that was supposed to be on there was July 5. (Note: a patch labeled Georgia062802.zip is on the ftp site, and when you review it, you will see that it contains much more than just the "Windows updates" claimed by Georgia officials.) "There was about three updates, the CE software, the date that would come up would be the last. After that they came up with another fix, that's the August one at that point. "I told Darryl Graves, the Project Manager, I told everyone at Diebold, 'I have zero confidence in the ability of these machines to perform.' Harris: "I understand that they go through Wyle testing labs and so forth. How in the world do so many critical errors get through certification?" Behler: "When I was handling these machines, they were coming straight from a factory in North Carolina. That's where the actual touch screen was manufactured. Booths came out of California. We assembled the booth with the machine. That's all I know." Harris: "What do you know about the ROM chip, or whatever?" Behler: "There's the eprom, or the flash as they call it. A lot of the fixes they did they could do in the flash memory. "If they said they tested it I'm going to tell you right now the software that I installed on the machine myself, they found out that that was NEVER tested. Okay, I don't want to get other people involved, but you should talk to Rellinger. "Anyway, that they had never tested it, that made complete sense to me, watching what was going on. "This is an example we did: We would plug it in, boot it 3 times, unplug it, boot it three more times. I wrote a sheet on this. This guy came in from McKinney, he was about the second in command. He's a good friend of Bob Urosevich. About second to Bob, at least now, he got a promotion. Greg? Something like that. He flew in and I went to Dekalb and I tested and together we went through, and we wrote down every single error, and he booted them himself, and was looking at the results and seeing how sporadic they were. and we found out of the machines we tested, about 75% of the machines had different sporadic things. He was working with me and we were writing them down, we literally wrote everything down." Harris: "Do you have a copy of that?" Behler: "I don't think I have it. I have some email. I'd have to look. I know we came back and he copied it and he -- Greg Lowe (spelling?) is his name. I drove him out there. Brit was there, KSU was doing their testing. They were bombing these machines out left and right." "I'm telling him, 'They're all like this.' At this time I was working 150 hours in 2 weeks I was there all the time with these machines, that's the reality of it. The techs were working overtime trying to fix them. We couldn't get enough from the factory because so many were bad. You'd get a shipment of 300, but 75 were bad, they couldn't put them out fast enough to replace all the defects. "It was the software, not the hardware, that's where the problem was. "If they're telling you they tested that, well they did NOT test the fixes that they did to the windows CE software. Harris: "Do you know who was writing the fixes?" Behler: "He had a weird name. He came out of Canada." Harris: "Guy Lancaster? Josh ...Talbot Iredale?" Behler: "That's it! Talbot Iredale would actually fix it and say, 'Oh, here's the problem,' and stick it on the FTP site we'd grab it stick it on the card and make a bunch of copies and use it." (NOTE: You'll see the initials "tri" in the source code files. Talbot R. Iredale is one of the main programmers, and has been a stockholder.) Harris: "So you took the patches right off the FTP site and installed them on the machines?" Behler: "That's what we did, he'd FTP it, and tell us to grab it, we'd put it on a laptop, copy it and when you boot the machine -- it's just like a computer that looks at the "A" drive -- these machines look at the card and then erase the flash, reprogram with whatever they said needed to be fixed -- I say, erase it and reprogram it with crap -- and then the whole thing would start all over again. "My understanding was that they figured out what was conflicting and James told me that Tab, well the team that came out after I left, they figured out what was going on, they figured out that when they fixed the real time clock problem they had never tested their fix. "The only people that that cost was Diebold, who had to pay all kinds of extra expenses. The rumor around the office was that Diebold lost maybe $10 million on the Georgia thing. I mean, they only sold the machines for what, $2,000, or $2,500, and then you have to build them and then you're paying people $30 an hour and you are out touching 22,000 machines FOUR TIMES -- there's no way they didn't lose money on this deal. Behler: "You know one of the main things that really just made me so upset, they were just like, 'This Brit guy, don't even speak to him, it's a political game, you've gotta play the politics.' Well, he walks in and says 'What are you guys doing?' I said, 'We're putting in an update.' He said, 'Will it change what it does?' We said, 'Just do your normal test, we're supposed to get the machines ready for you.' He tells someone at the office and they freaked out. They were like, 'What the heck are you doing???' "I wasn't supposed to talk to him at all, I guess. The guy had a flannel shirt on, he was kicking it and he was very genuine and open and there we are in the same room together, but because I actually spoke to him I got reprimanded. They said, 'If they ask you any question, you gotta say 'Talk to Norma, to one of us.'' "And then you know, ironically, later on right before I exited, they were scrambling for a date, they were trying to get us, the teams, into Fulton County to do Fulton County's 1,900 machines. "They were in the most horrific spot. The place they warehoused them was like 1900 machines in a little office space, there was no way we could get at them. The machines are like 58 pounds, and they had to bring them in unstack them off the pallet, restack on the pallet, talk about labor, talk about wasted money! It's like a warehouse and offices off 75, in Atlanta, I'm talking to this guy he's a great guy, he's from Fulton County. Him and I were scheduling this, figuring it out how to get to these machines and do the update before KSU has to test them. We cannot be doing this at same time as KSU because there was NO ROOM for that. Brit had been down there, he knew this. I'm talking to the Fulton County guy. He opens this one last door and here's this huge giant empty warehouse. Why didn't they put the machines out here? He says, 'Well you see over there's these boxes of county material, you can't be out here because there may be some sensitive stuff in these files. They don't want anybody near 'em. His name was Barney, the only Barney I've met who's black. He said, "Yeah, they were talking about putting a fence out here." "We could just get all the testing done at once, I thought. Whatever. Maybe someone could just get a security guard to watch us and make sure we don't get into the boxes. I go back to the office. Brit was there, and he says 'What's it look like for Fulton?' I said 'There's no way were going to able to get to Fulton County by Thursday.' I said we could probably be out there by Friday or Saturday. He said 'There's no way we can do it at the same time, you know that.' Behler: "I think a lot of the problems they had ---- I've worked in billing software, and it's common to have this little thing wrong -- a simple little hardware change, you have to put some little line of code in Windows CE to make it work better. But the thing that blew me away was when I'm told me they'd NEVER TESTED THE FIX. "They produced it and got it to us in 24-48 hours. If I'd known they hadn't tested it I simply wouldn't have installed it! My background tells me that's a no-no. "I went into this Diebold thing with no real knowledge of the voting industry. When I left, I not only had a complete grasp, but I had a complete disrespect for these machines. "And with the folks in the office who were so -- you know, 'I'm the political person, you have to know how the system works' -- they were so much more concerned about their own self importance, they were losing track of DO THE MACHINES COUNT THE VOTE PROPERLY! "Because that's what the people in Georgia need. And I'm one of them!" Harris: "Who are some of the names working in that office?" Behler: "Norma Lyons and Wes Craven -- they're from Diebold, and Keith Long. Norma and Wes live in George, Keith was in Maryland before, then here, I think. "They sat in the weekly meetings on Monday. Norma had been a county worker doing voting for 10 years. She knew all these people in several counties. She was the liason between Diebold and the counties. They [Diebold] would tell you something important, and she may or may not tell you because she wouldn't know how important it was. "Wes was the kind of guy who needs to work for Sprint or a big company..." Harris: "How secure were the machines, from what you saw?" Behler: "I'll tell you something else -- we didn't have badges -- people could just walk right in and get to the machines." Harris: "And that FTP site, anybody could walk right into it also. Even Diebold's competitors." Behler: "Anybody who's in voting, you leave one company you go over there. Ooh yeah, we'll take you on. Someone comes in and says, 'By the way, I uploaded the source code, want to grab it?'" Harris: "Were there any protections to keep you from duplicating memory cards, or to have them serial numbered or whatever?" Behler: "The memory cards, you can just duplicate them. You have to have the proper info on the card, for the machine to boot up, but you can just make copies of the cards." Harris: "Were there any passwords on those FTP files?" Behler: "No." Harris: "Any passwords on the files themselves? Or the site?" Behler: "What we got never had passwords. You just pick it up and use it." Harris: "Do you still have any records?" Behler: "Emails. And James downloaded to his personal laptop, it's probably still on his. And probably still on mine too. Diebold didn't provide us with anything with a PCMCIA slot so we had to use our own laptops to transfer the files when they told us to. Harris: "When I asked Diebold if there was anyone named Rob in Georgia, they said no. Did they know about you?" Behler: "They knew me and they knew me well. I met Bob Urosevich a couple different times, and Ian, and then Greg Lowe, he got promoted to like almost the DFO, he was basically Bob's right hand man." "If you would have realized the scolding I got for actually speaking to Brit. The whole quality control issue, I kept having to remind them, I'm the one that pointed this out -- we want this to be right -- my goal is to just get it fixed and move on. ... Harris: "Do you think anybody could have tampered with a machine, if they wanted to?" Behler: "Well, when we did the quality control check we'd open it up, they have a little box for the printer. We would find the key still in the printer. Someone could literally take that. We found cards left in the machine. I wondered what would happen if the wrong person got it." Harris: "I understand they did a big demonstration during the summer, with the machines." Behler: "I was there when they told me I needed 1100 machines for a demo. I thought, 'The trick is coming up with 1100 machines that actually work. # # ENDS # # http://www.blackboxvoting.com ** The email version of this report was distributed on Scoop's Sludge Report list. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:26:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thomas Kinsella's "Phoenix Park," in _Nightwalker and Other Poems_ (1967), an important poem in his transition toward more adventurous, modernist-inflected work in the 70s. Phoenix Park is is Dublin and also figures in Joyce's _Finnegans Wake_. > In a message dated 7/16/03 2:24:47 PM, llacook@YAHOO.COM writes: > >> *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of >> poets writing in and >> around parks?* >> >> >> not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's >> "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think >> of this==== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:37:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louis, Quite interesting, this way of looking at ("reading") language poetry, hypo- and paratacticly. I've been reading Toner today and no longer consider it so potentially banal (as you said, I believe in another post) since I'm reading Silliman now without making the connections and at the same time (or at "different" "other" "undisclosed" times) suspending the connections and, finally, making the connections in some sort of inchoate or incipient state in my mind (i.e., the nonsubordination of words by other words called parataxis such as in Pound's "and went down to the ship..."--, that 'and' not connecting anaphoricly with anything, and the 'so that' at the end of Canto I not cataphoricly connecting with anything unless its the second Canto) and later to emerge from that incipient inchoate state, or not ever until maybe a later reading I make of it. However, I cannot help but think that this is what in a way the Metaphysicals did (that violent yoking) and the Surrealists in their way (the chance meeting of umbrella and sewing machine). How does Silliman differ from the latter? Obviously, reading Charles Henri Ford's Om Krishna I I can see the difference in terms of form or the sentence. However, the difference is not that obvious because, perhaps, Om Krishna I could be broken up in the way Silliman does in Toner. But, then, Ford's vocab. is much different and just breaking up his lines would not result in Silliman. The basic question is though, I think, where does this parataxis lead or not lead to? If Chomsky is right in saying that language is a mental organ, quite literally speaking, then, given the Whorf-Lee-Sapir Hypothesis, Silliman's world is seen through his language. A kind of prismatic kaleidoscopic world in which, in a way, say, that bag lady crops up several times in Toner, or boogers and snot. Matt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:56:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: PHILLY SOUND WEEKEND, August 8th & 9th ************* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit IT'S GOING TO BE A GREAT WEEKEND OF POETRY!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Philly Sound Weekend was put together by and will be hosted by Tom Devaney and Frank Sherlock http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/phillysoundwknd.html if you miss the fun don't come crying to me! more later, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:16:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: <3F159DEA.9EA15114@delhi.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Golden Gate Park in San Francisco has come up a couple of times today - wit= h the beauties (poems) by Philip Whalen. Though I have not read the late William Dickey in a while, he spend many an hour in and wrote of the Park's wonderful "Arboretum." GG Park I believe emerged as a Park in the 1880's - tho John McLaren was the chief architect, I believe he was advised by Olmsted, who also did public works in the Bay Area, including a graveyard i= n the Oakland Hills (which I have not visited). GG Park was ascendant in the public both in poetry and many other kinds of events - the infamous '67 "Be In" and numerous psychedelic music events - being right there on the edge o= f the Haight and includes a still heavily inhabited and drummed "hippie" hill not far from the edge of the neighborhood. Zen, Ecology, Nature etc. each coalesced around the Park during that era - and much poetry was a natural outcome from the association. The Park remains, of course, a central City and community treasure - where an incredible diversity of kinds of folks gather and certainly a place where I frequently walk. In human terms - if not those of Walter Benjamin - it's probably one of the best places to get a profile of city folks variously 'acting out their souls'. Here's a piece I wrote in the context of entering the new millennium: =20 Saturday, July 24, 1999 Walk with Andrew Moss. 1:45 =AD 3:45. Golden Gate Park. Start from Lincoln Drive near Sixth =AD a high fog broken into parts - the sun flush on to the horizon of trees on the western edge of the sunken baseball field =AD quickly down across Martin Luther King Drive =AD go the north-side, a trail down and up beyond the bleachers to the small beige concrete building with the two interior handball courts: inside, through the little square criss-cross mes= h wire window, two Latino men, the fierce rivet sound, ball to floor to wall to floor to wall (sweat, sweat), up the slope and down across Middle Drive East into a trail between bushes into the Shakespeare Garden: the large Asian wedding, piles of ripe purple grapes on trays on white table cloths, the photographer and the videographer, the bride, the groom, the maids on one side, the men on the other, each with an orchid in hand, profile of sui= t and walnut color faces on the green, cut grass against the trees, the sun illuminating white shirts and pale plum lavender gowns. Exit through the gate, cross Martin Luther King Drive into the Arboretum, a German couple with a big Nikon camera, =B3Please, will you take us=B2, focus, trigger, lens, shutter, snap, up the slight slope of the large lawn, the French seeming fountain: tall, thin, sun illuminated flutter white water, a geyser to the sky, hair pin curve down thread north, down and across the wooden bridge =AD in the water and on the little mud beach, the inevitable dirty, big yellow billed bright white ducks and green ochre Mallards - up and through the north Gate, across the road to the trail outside the Japanese Tea Garden, beside the stone stairway up to Stow Lake, the stray scattering of old, dirty white, =B3orphan=B2 1893, Hearst imported, monastery stones, several curled inside the black roots of an old, fallen Oak tree - up and around th= e northern edge of Stow Lake, to cross the bridge to the trail around the interior island, on the water below, the pale, blue foot-pedal propelled boat - the man inside in a dark tank-top, undecipherable blue and red ink tattoos on his arms sitting beside his large shouldered mom in her baby blu= e blouse, his thin wife in a black-top leans forward to divide the two - over the south stone bridge, its gentle curve up and down on to the trail back beside the lake, back down the stairs, east on Martin Luther King, a fork off to the east to the Band Shell at the top of the Concourse between the Aquarium and the De Young, the bunch of body-throbbing, stationary young dancers on stage, while on the ground below, the DJ working under the sun-illuminated, lime green awning with the word BRAINDROP: the electric drone, bass whump music, the dancers in their teens - violet, green and red dyes in their hair - in the trance, trance, trance , music echo, walk up th= e Concourse to the east, the sculpture of Columbia, with thin horns for ears, needling high into the blue sky, now through a tunnel out of the Concourse, the trail elevates, the green bronze sculptures of Goethe and Schiller, hands sharing a wreath of laurel, on to a trail through Rhododendron bushes - no longer in pink spring bloom- back across the Middle Drive East to edg= e of the baseball diamond around the wide, somewhat steep trail up the hill, parallel to which five young Latinos in tank tops in a bicycle carriage scream and careen out of control down the grassy slope on to left field; take one last look across the Diamond over the trees into the blue horizon, the short way back to Lincoln Drive and the parked car. Stephen Vincent on 7/16/03 11:48 AM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > Corso's park poem that Daniel Zimmerman noticed begins: >=20 > In this park > the children speak Italian > and do not > mind the naked statues > as did the children > who spoke French in another park > making jokes at Hercules. > But the same with all children in all parks > -- bouncing balls with yawns. >=20 > THE poem then continues for about fifty lines. >=20 > A similar genre of poem is the walk in nature poem, such as Coleridge's g= reat > "This Lime-Tree Bower my Prison," in which Coleridge has spilled boiled m= ilk > on > his foot and so can't go for a walk up to a bluff overlooking a sea with = many > islands and ships past ravines and natural flower beds. It's addressed t= o > Charles Lamb, who's on the walk. Lamb's sister just killed their mother,= so > Charles is a little depressed, and Coleridge imagines his friend cheering= up: >=20 > and not a swallow twitters, > Yet still the solitary humble-bee > Sings in the bean-flower! >=20 > Coleridge is asking nature to do its best to help out his sad friend by > turning > up the aesthetics to the brightest pitch >=20 > Kindle, thou blue ocean! >=20 > I've had students write imaginary walks for depressed friends in which th= ey > get > to see stuff like moose and bear and couples making love, and silver bats= . > It's not a bad exercise in terms of what you get. >=20 > A similar kind of walk poem is Wordsworth's Michael -- again it is not a = park, > but a rural area that you get a tour of -- >=20 > Weren't there also some parks in the Buffalo area that were made or set a= side > by Robert Moses, who built so much in this state? There is this melancho= ly > little poem by Sara Teasdale, who committed suicide in Greenwich Village = in > 1933. It begins: >=20 >=20 >=20 > Gramercy Park >=20 > The little park was filled with peace, > The walks were carpeted with snow, > But every iron gate was locked, > Lest if we entered, peace would go. >=20 > We circled it a dozen times, > The wind was blowing from the sea... >=20 > She also has miserable little poems about Coney Island, Riverside Park, e= tc. > The point is to play the beauty off her miserable state of mind, I think. >=20 > Thanks for bringing up this idea. I think the whole deal about parks, an= d > walkability -- is related to the places to live thread that we opened a w= hile > back. Beaverton is one of the least walkable towns in America -- while > Portland just ten miles away is one of the most walkable. That's I think= what > makes Paris such a great city for poets -- its walkability. There's plen= ty to > see -- one isn't overwhelmed by traffic. It's perfectly possible to walk= ten > hours a day in Paris and almost never notice it. Some people love to hik= e in > the countryside, but I like a walkable city. We haven't got very many of > these. What are the most walkable cities in America? I've heard that Ho= uston > is not walkable. There is nothing to see because the skyscrapers go righ= t > down > to the sidewalk with hard blue glass that you can't look into, and some p= laces > there's no sidewalk at all. >=20 > I have a feeling that Cambridge would be walkable. >=20 > Is there any park in America that tops NY's Central Park for walkability = -- > and > when you're tired you can get a soft pretzel or an ice cream cone or sit = and > look at how well people's pants fit their bodies -- butts, the looseness = of > the > legs, whether they have the right length. It's pretty rare that pants fi= t, I > find. Another interesting thing is to look at how well noses fit faces. = You > need a lot of distracted people walking past, and Central Park is very go= od > for > that. >=20 > -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:28:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Mouth Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sip in, with muster, signals; glaciations within your dowry so that I may sweat with a bad belly and breasts, signature of cancer: the scorpio toll that wages in gestures almost scars pours through those pinhole glimpses of somewhere very bright where behind the sky we kiss again, lay down with the accomplishment of shadows is skill, oh baby what kills me in your cute is the usual gradations, the stuff that fumbles me when reaching out through your utter trust I grab everything that isn't mine, break it down into my component fantasy, smother me in shit up and take notice of you, burning up every room you smooth with thoughts about sand and its noise in my throat; you're talking to the uninitiated, baby, syntax like a last cigarette in a pack of clouds, in my mouth, tan and dead with motors; do you see now what starving? ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:05:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Dorward Subject: Website update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A quick note to folks to say 1) my website with the Prynne bibliography & promotional stuff for _The Gig_ got killed when Sprint dropped their webhosting service; I've temporarily relocated to http://www.geocities.com/ndorward/index.html (sorry about the ads). It's time for a serious website overhaul but this will do for now, getting you the basic info & restoring the Prynne bibliography. 2) I'm away from this afternoon till August 2nd. I'll best be reached at nd_away@hotmail.com for the interim. 3) Been a lag in mailing out some of the copies of the Raworth collection, especially to US subscribers, because I was away for two weeks shortly after publication, & then ran out of the bookmark tip-in (which is printed by Tom himself) & had to wait till I'd received a shipment of more of them. My apologies! This afternoon I mailed out the rest of the copies I owed people, so if you haven't seen it yet you should see it by next week. all best, Nate Dorward 109 Hounslow Ave, Willowdale, ON, M2N 2B1, Canada ndorward@sprint.ca Just published by The Gig: REMOVED FOR FURTHER STUDY: THE POETRY OF TOM RAWORTH and Maggie O'Sullivan's PALACE OF REPTILES ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:16:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: MICRO-STEPPING SOURCE PREMISE RESPONSE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MICRO-STEPPING SOURCE PREMISE RESPONSE #0001 www.cowgallery.com the front hall and the front hall and terrible anguish, a terrible anguish, a terrible anguish, a my lady, If my lady, If the front hall and is is into into into undressed her, then undressed her, then is protest the protest the Cachemirian got near Cachemirian got near Cachemirian got near be well, therefore, be well, therefore, protest the beguiling. beguiling. he is smitten: and, he is smitten: and, he is smitten: and, beguiling. brother Joe had been brother Joe had been individuals individuals individuals prevent unions from prevent unions from brother Joe had been haven't met yet, haven't met yet, brought help. Men brought help. Men brought help. Men article. Quite a article. Quite a haven't met yet, sometimes hear the sometimes hear the sometimes hear the for our interest to for our interest to trade?" That trade?" That trade?" That love---its love---its for our interest to may conduct may conduct form and visibility, form and visibility, form and visibility, as the country's as the country's may conduct mastering video mastering video screaming in cars. screaming in cars. screaming in cars. other rich man. This other rich man. This mastering video failures and bitter failures and bitter not uniform, not uniform, not uniform, of myself as a baby of myself as a baby failures and bitter better Than the pain better Than the pain they were both they were both they were both for some for some august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:19:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: INDEPENDENT FRONTLINE ASSEMBLY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE JOAN KEATING-CHAMBERS COLLECTION INDEPENDENT FRONTLINE ASSEMBLY #001 www.digital-e-motions.com please muse your verse mix for me Magazine offices opening day World Series. Super Bowl Sunday read whole collection these books. Left marginal phone. Heart felt magazine offices opening day World Series. Super Bowl Sunday search more exciting pursuits. Deplored liberty Fontainebleau. Still. Because son law. Majesty hesitate longer deliver rather read whole collection these books. Left marginal phone. Heart felt magazine offices opening day World Series. Super Bowl Sunday resolve comply prescriptions. Use remedies give punctually obey search more exciting pursuits. Deplored liberty Fontainebleau. Yes. Replied. Muscle control excellent. Who wanted foreplay. Still. Because son law. Majesty hesitate longer deliver rather read whole collection these books. Left marginal phone. Heart felt magazine offices opening day World Series. Super Bowl Sunday placed pillow. Turned onto side. Take place July Trachenberg. Resolve comply prescriptions. Use remedies give punctually obey search more exciting pursuits. Deplored liberty Fontainebleau. Pretend seen many evil spirits. Know half Yes. Replied. Muscle control excellent. Who wanted foreplay. Still. Because son law. Majesty hesitate longer deliver rather read whole collection these books. Left marginal phone. Heart felt sentence. Napoleon paused. Head dropped breast. Emperor fallen placed pillow. Turned onto side. Take place July Trachenberg. Resolve comply prescriptions. Use remedies give punctually obey search more exciting pursuits. Deplored liberty Fontainebleau. Unnatural poses. Gazed upward. Confounded rest assemblage. Prince pretend seen many evil spirits. Know half Yes. Replied. Muscle control excellent. Who wanted foreplay. Still. Because son law. Majesty hesitate longer deliver rather casting occasional glance map marked positions various corps now sentence. Napoleon paused. Head dropped breast. Emperor fallen placed pillow. Turned onto side. Take place July Trachenberg. Resolve comply prescriptions. Use remedies give punctually obey unnatural poses. Gazed upward. Confounded rest assemblage. Prince pretend seen many evil spirits. Know half Yes. Replied. Muscle control excellent. Who wanted foreplay. Who trusts God defends himself bravely will worth thing. Either. Casting occasional glance map marked positions various corps now sentence. Napoleon paused. Head dropped breast. Emperor fallen placed pillow. Turned onto side. Take place July Trachenberg. Responsibility. Will think inform final decision. Footnote rules etiquette because Frederick know already. Eimi pushed unnatural poses. Gazed upward. Confounded rest assemblage. Prince pretend seen many evil spirits. Know half variant improves adaptation These beds august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:59:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Matt, Meet my personality. A deaf man’s whistle could seem inexact. I don’t want to get my feathers hot. Bag lady stands in Humorous first line sets a tone. What -- Is he carrying his personality under his arm like a friggin pet? What does a personality look like, anyway? Personality is hard to pin down, it's somewhat insubstantial, yet everyone wants it -- apparently, according to the 1946 pop hit, "Personality" where it is a euphemism for sex-appeal (itself a euphemism for [fill in the lack] etc) (sung in different versions by Johnny Mercer, and [in the movie, The Road to Utopia] Bing Crosby and Dinah Shore). What sexist lyrics, http://ntl.matrix.com.br/pfilho/html/lyrics/p/personalityjm.txt, but the refrain is fucking with my brain! Is that the song's own personality coming through? You're born with personality, they say (that's the received idea). Think of it as a unique music of one's being, then. But (following this analogy to music) what if one were deaf -- one still has personality? Does one then have a "defective" personality, like one can have a tone-deaf, or "inexact" whistler? I refuse to let these questions ruffle my feathers (so to speak)! Ok, I'm pretty fucked up. Oh, but forget about me. Look at that bag lady. She's worse off than me! She's actually *wearing* feathers -- feather boa, anyway (she must have found it some place). There, but for the grace of *personality* (that refrain again!), go I. She's standing in for me here, as I write about her. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:45:50 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Btw Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought people might be interested in this little fact, I discovered today that Isaac Newton wrote a 3 million word essay based on the Book of Revelations which calculates that the world will end in the year 2060. Fortunately, by then, if still alive, I will be so gaga that I won't have the faintest idea of what's happening. Ironic grins apart, it did strike me that the power of 'script', of the written word, to turn reality on its head is so immense. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:13:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: "fairy / decorator" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT kuwected 'ending' (the whole, to be endlessly emended): There, but for the grace of . . . *personality* (that refrain again!), go I? (that's the received idea). I notice that here she's standing in for me here, taking my place (just as "personality" is standing in for certain unacknowledged social conditions, conditionings?) . . . and that she's actually *not* me, as I write about her. . . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:57:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stephen, Thanks for the walk through the park. Also, Golden Gate Park regularly occurs in Whalen's fiction, You Didn't Even Try and Imaginary Speeches of a Brazen Head. I used to have a shop in the glass house conservatory in Golden Gate Park . Over the years I helped them develop their bromeliad and orchid collection with plants from my greenhouse (Shelldance, now a part of the Golden Gate Recreation Area) in Pacifica. Michael McClure used to come out to the conservatory to visit, a couple times a week for years, and we would tromp all over the gardens. Margo Patterson Doss, journalist, one of the queen bees of Bolinas life, friend to all those poets on the Mesa, used to write a weekly column for the SF Chronicle called "Bay Area At Your Feet", encouraging people to take "discovery walks of the park" as well as other regional parks. She was always bringing poets together and introducing them, or housing poets who were coming through town, like Olson and Whalen. Her book Bay Area At Your Feet is good resource for parks in SF Bay Area. Maybe the most awesome feature of PARKS in the Bay Area is The Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA). It's the largest urban national park in the world. The total park area is 75,398 acres of land and water. Approximately 28 miles of coastline lie within its boundaries. It is nearly two and one-half times the size of San Francisco. It includes Pt. Reyes National Seashore, Muir Woods, Angel Island, Alacatraz, The Presidio, Ft. Funston, Ft. Baker, The Marin Headlands, the beaches on Great Highway, Sweeney Ridge(now includes tShelldance), Mori Point, San Pedro Mountain. Though it is a National Park and one thinks about National Parks differently than PARKS, it is important to see how it interweaves with the city and is used by the city in a daily, strolling way, the wayo one thinks of a local park. It is one of the things that makes San Francisco livable, providing this three county long greenbelt. Most people in the town don't realize that it is one huge system because it was was designed to consider the various neighborhoods it touched. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:16 PM Subject: Re: parks Golden Gate Park in San Francisco has come up a couple of times today - with the beauties (poems) by Philip Whalen. Though I have not read the late William Dickey in a while, he spend many an hour in and wrote of the Park's wonderful "Arboretum." GG Park I believe emerged as a Park in the 1880's - tho John McLaren was the chief architect, I believe he was advised by Olmsted, who also did public works in the Bay Area, including a graveyard in the Oakland Hills (which I have not visited). GG Park was ascendant in the public both in poetry and many other kinds of events - the infamous '67 "Be In" and numerous psychedelic music events - being right there on the edge of the Haight and includes a still heavily inhabited and drummed "hippie" hill not far from the edge of the neighborhood. Zen, Ecology, Nature etc. each coalesced around the Park during that era - and much poetry was a natural outcome from the association. The Park remains, of course, a central City and community treasure - where an incredible diversity of kinds of folks gather and certainly a place where I frequently walk. In human terms - if not those of Walter Benjamin - it's probably one of the best places to get a profile of city folks variously 'acting out their souls'. Here's a piece I wrote in the context of entering the new millennium: Saturday, July 24, 1999 Walk with Andrew Moss. 1:45 ­ 3:45. Golden Gate Park. Start from Lincoln Drive near Sixth ­ a high fog broken into parts - the sun flush on to the horizon of trees on the western edge of the sunken baseball field ­ quickly down across Martin Luther King Drive ­ go the north-side, a trail down and up beyond the bleachers to the small beige concrete building with the two interior handball courts: inside, through the little square criss-cross mesh wire window, two Latino men, the fierce rivet sound, ball to floor to wall to floor to wall (sweat, sweat), up the slope and down across Middle Drive East into a trail between bushes into the Shakespeare Garden: the large Asian wedding, piles of ripe purple grapes on trays on white table cloths, the photographer and the videographer, the bride, the groom, the maids on one side, the men on the other, each with an orchid in hand, profile of suit and walnut color faces on the green, cut grass against the trees, the sun illuminating white shirts and pale plum lavender gowns. Exit through the gate, cross Martin Luther King Drive into the Arboretum, a German couple with a big Nikon camera, ³Please, will you take us², focus, trigger, lens, shutter, snap, up the slight slope of the large lawn, the French seeming fountain: tall, thin, sun illuminated flutter white water, a geyser to the sky, hair pin curve down thread north, down and across the wooden bridge ­ in the water and on the little mud beach, the inevitable dirty, big yellow billed bright white ducks and green ochre Mallards - up and through the north Gate, across the road to the trail outside the Japanese Tea Garden, beside the stone stairway up to Stow Lake, the stray scattering of old, dirty white, ³orphan² 1893, Hearst imported, monastery stones, several curled inside the black roots of an old, fallen Oak tree - up and around the northern edge of Stow Lake, to cross the bridge to the trail around the interior island, on the water below, the pale, blue foot-pedal propelled boat - the man inside in a dark tank-top, undecipherable blue and red ink tattoos on his arms sitting beside his large shouldered mom in her baby blue blouse, his thin wife in a black-top leans forward to divide the two - over the south stone bridge, its gentle curve up and down on to the trail back beside the lake, back down the stairs, east on Martin Luther King, a fork off to the east to the Band Shell at the top of the Concourse between the Aquarium and the De Young, the bunch of body-throbbing, stationary young dancers on stage, while on the ground below, the DJ working under the sun-illuminated, lime green awning with the word BRAINDROP: the electric drone, bass whump music, the dancers in their teens - violet, green and red dyes in their hair - in the trance, trance, trance , music echo, walk up the Concourse to the east, the sculpture of Columbia, with thin horns for ears, needling high into the blue sky, now through a tunnel out of the Concourse, the trail elevates, the green bronze sculptures of Goethe and Schiller, hands sharing a wreath of laurel, on to a trail through Rhododendron bushes - no longer in pink spring bloom- back across the Middle Drive East to edge of the baseball diamond around the wide, somewhat steep trail up the hill, parallel to which five young Latinos in tank tops in a bicycle carriage scream and careen out of control down the grassy slope on to left field; take one last look across the Diamond over the trees into the blue horizon, the short way back to Lincoln Drive and the parked car. Stephen Vincent on 7/16/03 11:48 AM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > Corso's park poem that Daniel Zimmerman noticed begins: > > In this park > the children speak Italian > and do not > mind the naked statues > as did the children > who spoke French in another park > making jokes at Hercules. > But the same with all children in all parks > -- bouncing balls with yawns. > > THE poem then continues for about fifty lines. > > A similar genre of poem is the walk in nature poem, such as Coleridge's great > "This Lime-Tree Bower my Prison," in which Coleridge has spilled boiled milk > on > his foot and so can't go for a walk up to a bluff overlooking a sea with many > islands and ships past ravines and natural flower beds. It's addressed to > Charles Lamb, who's on the walk. Lamb's sister just killed their mother, so > Charles is a little depressed, and Coleridge imagines his friend cheering up: > > and not a swallow twitters, > Yet still the solitary humble-bee > Sings in the bean-flower! > > Coleridge is asking nature to do its best to help out his sad friend by > turning > up the aesthetics to the brightest pitch > > Kindle, thou blue ocean! > > I've had students write imaginary walks for depressed friends in which they > get > to see stuff like moose and bear and couples making love, and silver bats. > It's not a bad exercise in terms of what you get. > > A similar kind of walk poem is Wordsworth's Michael -- again it is not a park, > but a rural area that you get a tour of -- > > Weren't there also some parks in the Buffalo area that were made or set aside > by Robert Moses, who built so much in this state? There is this melancholy > little poem by Sara Teasdale, who committed suicide in Greenwich Village in > 1933. It begins: > > > > Gramercy Park > > The little park was filled with peace, > The walks were carpeted with snow, > But every iron gate was locked, > Lest if we entered, peace would go. > > We circled it a dozen times, > The wind was blowing from the sea... > > She also has miserable little poems about Coney Island, Riverside Park, etc. > The point is to play the beauty off her miserable state of mind, I think. > > Thanks for bringing up this idea. I think the whole deal about parks, and > walkability -- is related to the places to live thread that we opened a while > back. Beaverton is one of the least walkable towns in America -- while > Portland just ten miles away is one of the most walkable. That's I think what > makes Paris such a great city for poets -- its walkability. There's plenty to > see -- one isn't overwhelmed by traffic. It's perfectly possible to walk ten > hours a day in Paris and almost never notice it. Some people love to hike in > the countryside, but I like a walkable city. We haven't got very many of > these. What are the most walkable cities in America? I've heard that Houston > is not walkable. There is nothing to see because the skyscrapers go right > down > to the sidewalk with hard blue glass that you can't look into, and some places > there's no sidewalk at all. > > I have a feeling that Cambridge would be walkable. > > Is there any park in America that tops NY's Central Park for walkability -- > and > when you're tired you can get a soft pretzel or an ice cream cone or sit and > look at how well people's pants fit their bodies -- butts, the looseness of > the > legs, whether they have the right length. It's pretty rare that pants fit, I > find. Another interesting thing is to look at how well noses fit faces. You > need a lot of distracted people walking past, and Central Park is very good > for > that. > > -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:36:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crag Hill Subject: Forthcoming SCORE/Reading for 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: Though there are no weapons of mass destruction in the forthcoming SCORE 18, much to George, Dick, and Don's dismay, there is some volatile reading from The Atlanta Poets Group (Tedd Mulholland, collaborations, Mark Prejsnar, James Sanders, dana lisa petersen, Zac Denton, Tracey M. Gagne, )ohnLowther, Sandy Baldwin, & Randy Prunty), David Chirot, Joel Lewis, John M. Bennett & Scott Helmes, Derek White, Peter de Rous, Mike Basinski, Nick Piombino, G. Huth, Pete Lee, David McAleavey, Jessy Kendall, Lewis Lacook, Brouilles, Richard Erdmann, R. Sponaugle, Edward Mycue, Thomas Bell, Andrew Topel & John M. Bennett, Sam Hunter, Nathan Whiting, Guy Beining, Carlos Martinez Luis, Greg Evason, John M. Bennett & Scott Helmes, Carla Bertola, Ian Randall Wilson, Cyril A. Dostal, Sheila Murphy, William Woodruff, Christopher Strople, Randy Koch, and David Baratier. $10 per issue/$15 for institutions We're reading widely, too, for the next issue. Send! Crag Hill 1111 E. Fifth Moscow, ID 83843 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Kan. Mom Says Work Banned Gay Rights Talk In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030703200547.02ec0c18@mail.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-2917933,00.html Kan. Mom Says Work Banned Gay Rights Talk Thursday July 17, 2003 3:19 PM By JOHN MILBURN Associated Press Writer TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) - A public library employee says she was reprimanded=20= after she talked openly at work about gay rights following last month's=20= U.S. Supreme Court ruling that struck down anti-sodomy laws. Bonnie Cuevas, a board member of the Kansas Unity and Pride Alliance=20 and mother of a gay man, said two administrators at the Topeka-Shawnee=20= County Library verbally reprimanded her for talking about the case and=20= told her she was prohibited from discussing gay rights at work. They cited a complaint from a co-worker who felt the subject was=20 creating a hostile work environment. Cuevas had discussed the case on=20 the phone and with a co-worker. The American Civil Liberties Union sent a letter to the library=20 Wednesday, asking officials to reconsider their prohibition on Cuevas'=20= ability to discuss the case, without the group resorting to legal=20 action. David Leamon, director of the library, said he recently returned from=20 vacation and was not aware of the situation. If anything, he said,=20 Cuevas would have been told not to use the telephone for personal=20 matters and that the library doesn't take sides on issues. ``The subject is not an issue at all,'' Leamon said. Leamon said the staff complained that Cuevas, 54, was being disruptive=20= because of the frequent, impassioned telephone calls. ``We never issue=20= gag orders,'' Leamon said. ``The library is on neutral ground and we=20 don't take positions on issues.'' Following the high court's decision, Cuevas, an events coordinator for=20= the library, spoke by telephone to friends and reporters about the=20 decision and how it affects her family. She also talked about the=20 decision to a co-worker who approached her for information about the=20 decision, she said. Ken Choe, staff attorney for the ACLU in New York, said he was=20 optimistic the library would remove the restriction. ``If there was a concern about spending too much time on the phone for=20= personal reasons, that's one thing,'' Choe said. ``All Mrs. Cuevas is=20 seeking to do is talk about this landmark Supreme Court decision as any=20= employee has the right to talk about matters of public concern.'' Cuevas was quoted in USA Today the day after the Supreme Court struck=20 down anti-sodomy laws, including the one on the books in Kansas. She=20 told the paper how her son, now 27, nearly died when he was beaten=20 while leaving a gay bar with his boyfriend. The interview lasted just a few minutes, Cuevas said, and she also=20 received brief telephone calls from supporters. The next day, she=20 received one more phone call and was approached by a co-worker, who=20 said the ruling was important to him. She was then told in private by supervisors that not everyone agreed=20 with her views and she was verbally reprimanded, Cuevas said. ``I was=20 just flabbergasted. I couldn't believe it,'' Cuevas said. ^---- On the Net: Kansas Unity and Pride Alliance:=20 http://www.kansasunityandpridealliance.org Library: http://www.tscpl.org Guardian Unlimited =A9 Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:39:17 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: sometimes found in parks--pergola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII pergola (PUHR-guh-luh) noun An arbor formed of columns supporting trelliswork on which climbing plants are often trained. [From Italian pergola, from Latin pergula (projecting roof).] Here are pictures of pergolas: http://www.prparchitects.com/hanoverave3.html "The newest addition to the playground is a beautiful wooden pergola, which has seating areas and plants." Class Act: Kirkheaton Primary School; The Huddersfield Daily Examiner (UK); Jun 25, 2003. "The garden consists of a Great War stone surrounded by circular fountains, which in turn are enclosed by pairs of 'book rooms' and pergolas." 30 Things to Do in Dublin Before You Die; Dublin Daily (Ireland); Jun 18, 2003. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:21:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Quagmire Restoration Project in Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey guys, get a load of this from the Guardian: The OSP [Office of Special Plans, the shadow intelligence agency set up by Rumsfeld to circumvent and ostensibly supercede the boys in the State Dept.]was an open and largely unfiltered conduit to the White House not only for the Iraqi opposition. It also forged close ties to a parallel, ad hoc intelligence operation inside Ariel Sharon's office in Israel specifically to bypass Mossad and provide the Bush administration with more alarmist reports on Saddam's Iraq than Mossad was prepared to authorise. "None of the Israelis who came were cleared into the Pentagon through normal channels," said one source familiar with the visits. Instead, they were waved in on Mr Feith's authority without having to fill in the usual forms. The exchange of information continued a long-standing relationship Mr Feith and other Washington neo-conservatives had with Israel's Likud party. In 1996, he and Richard Perle - now an influential Pentagon figure - served as advisers to the then Likud leader, Binyamin Netanyahu. In a policy paper they wrote, entitled A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, the two advisers said that Saddam would have to be destroyed, and Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iran would have to be overthrown or destabilised, for Israel to be truly safe. The Israeli influence was revealed most clearly by a story floated by unnamed senior US officials in the American press, suggesting the reason that no banned weapons had been found in Iraq was that they had been smuggled into Syria. Intelligence sources say that the story came from the office of the Israeli prime minister. The OSP absorbed this heady brew of raw intelligence, rumour and plain disinformation and made it a "product", a prodigious stream of reports with a guaranteed readership in the White House. The primary customers were Mr Cheney, Mr Libby and their closest ideological ally on the national security council, Stephen Hadley, Condoleezza Rice's deputy. In turn, they leaked some of the claims to the press, and used others as a stick with which to beat the CIA and the state department analysts, demanding they investigate the OSP leads. Pat Buchanan's Jewish Cabal raises its head. Do you wonder why the Muslims consider it the Crusaders (Zionist and Christians) against them? I'm not joking here in the Middle West (Ohio) where the Vineyard Church (located in Westerville, the home of the Temperance Movement during the Prohibition era) are "prosper" Christians who have been granted by the grace of God to have financially prospered, and whose pastor is a convert from Judaism. Also, get a load of this from Guardian: Mr Sawers also rejected suggestions in the British media that Britain and the US had set up a puppet government. "If it was a hand-picked American council I do not think you would have found the secretary general of the communist party, or the leader of Iraqi Hizbullah, or the leader of the supreme council for the Islamic revolution in Iraq on the council. The fact is they are on the council because they are significant political figures." Ergo, you get the Islamic radicals in there and then we go back to topple them to install, in turn, a nephew of the former Shah or some nobodaddy like that. Does anybody remember recent history of Algeria? And finally get a load of this: Most Iraqis want troops to stay, says poll Michael Howard, Baghdad Thursday July 17, 2003 The Guardian A majority of Baghdad residents feel US and British troops should stay in Iraq for at least a year, according to the first attempt at an opinion poll. The You.Gov poll results were released as news emerged that a ground-to-air missile was fired at a US military plane near Baghdad airport. The poll said 31% wanted troops to stay "a few years", while 25% said "about a year." Only 13% said they should leave now, while 20% said they should go "within 12 months". The survey also found that half thought the US-led coalition was right to invade. You.Gov said there was no certainty that the 798 respondents were a representative sample and that several interviews were conducted with gunfire in the background. Don't you like the qualifier 'most' in the title? Also, this 'most' 31% want the troops to stay 'a few years' Who's laying bets on Abizaid eventually being installed over Rumsfeld's dead body? Matt ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:02:45 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: a night above/ground - party a night above/ground above/ground press, 10th anniversary party lovingly hosted by Alan Neal, CBC Radio w/ readings by John Barton, Stephen Brockwell, Michael Dennis, Anita Dolman, Jon Paul Fiorentino, Karen Massey, Una McDonnell, Gil McElroy, Colin Morton & Peter Norman w/ musical performances by Red Wood Central & Emm Gryner $10 cover / 8pm - 2am / (includes a copy of the anniversary chapbook anthology "ten" featuring new poems from various a/g press alumni) Thursday August 28, 2003. Club Awol. Corner of Bank & Sparks Streets, Ottawa. (Formerly "The Cave") ======== for 10 years, Ottawa's above/ground press, edited & published by rob mclennan, has been one of the most active chapbook publishers in the country, with almost 400 publications so far, including chapbooks, broadsides, Missing Jacket magazine, The FREE VERSE Anthology, & the ongoing STANZAS & drop magazines. Since starting the press in August 1993, he has published work by dozens of new & established writers across Canada & beyond, including George Elliott Clarke, John Newlove, Lisa Samuels, Stephanie Bolster, jwcurry, George Bowering, Stephen Cain, David W. McFadden, Michael Dennis, Michelle Desbarats, Andy Weaver, b stephen harding, Artie Gold, John Barton, Sheila E. Murphy, David O'Meara, Susan Musgrave, meghan jackson, Gil McElroy, Nelson Ball, rob mclennan, Joe Blades, carla milo, David Collins, David Scrimshaw, Jen Gavin, Colin Morton, nathalie stephens, Gerry Gilbert, Clare Latremouille, Ian Whistle, Una McDonnell, Jay MillAr, bpNichol, derek beaulieu, Anne Stone, Maggie Helwig, Henry Beissel, Karen Massey, Anita Dolman, Michael Londry, Victor Coleman, Meredith Quartermain, Ken Norris, Death Waits, Jon Paul Fiorentino, Susan Elmslie, Dennis Cooley, Nelson Ball, Julia Williams, Aaron Peck, Shannon Bramer, George Murray, Donato Mancini, Barry McKinnon, Elizabeth Hay, Vince Tinguely, Ellen Field, Stephen Brockwell, Greg Evason, D.G. Jones, Michael Holmes, Jeanette Lynes, A.J. Levin, K.I. Press, Stan Rogal, Julia Williams, etc. for more information on the event, or above/ground press, check out www.track0.com/rob_mclennan or bother him at 613 239 0337 ======== also, watch for the launch of GROUNDSWELL: the best of above/ground press, 1993-2003, edited by rob mclennan with an introduction by Stephen Cain, published by Broken Jaw Press as cauldron books #4. the launch will be happening in October as part of the ottawa international writers festival, with readings from various contributors. the collection will include a complete bibliography of the press from the beginning to 2002, & reprints work by Stephanie Bolster, jwcurry, John Newlove, Michelle Desbarats, Dennis Cooley, meghan jackson, carla milo, rob mclennan, George Bowering, etc. in both trade book & PDF version. http://www.brokenjaw.com/catalog/pg82.htm http://www.writersfest.com/ - October 1-11, 2003 =========== -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:55:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness zine, new issue out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The eleventh issue of PoetrySz, an e-zine featuring the work of people with mental illness, is out. This issue features anders, Lisa Gordon/Djuana, Joel Fry, Tom Bell, Jan Savanyu, Kenny A. Chaffin, Jerry Hicks, and Danny P. Barbare. Submissions for subsequent issues are welcome. Send 3-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your e-mail to poetrysz@yahoo.com. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:08:09 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Will Read For Nothing, Nothing At All (backchannel responses please) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Prithee my fair dearest list mates - I humbly offer my services for readings or other general patterns of entertaining abuse in the greater Northeastern United States of America (I'm disambiguating locations so as to avoid confusing the Canadian Poet Laureate) around 04 August - 12 August 2003. Cities to be visited include Washington DC, Philadelphia PA, and New York City NY. Not necessarily in that order. I will also be in Minneapolis, MN from 22 July - 29 July. If you will not allow me to read or are unable to provide a humble suggestion for permitting me to foist my prams off upon the unwitting, please sally forth and suggest an occasion for us to share a drink or three. I promise you I am infinitely more sane than it might appear on paper. Mr. Sondheim and Mr. Stefans may vouch for the measured balance of dispassion, Atticism, and zeal in my temperament. Sorry to disappoint those who might have suspected otherwise. Mr. Patrick Herron Carrboro Poet Laureate "How many of you want to wake up in a public bathroom lying in a pool of what you HOPE is your own filth? Any takers?" - Jerri Blank, "Inner Beauty" episode of Strangers With Candy P.S.: I am the proud recent recipient of a seat of laurels. The usual size does not fit my cranial dimensions of course. My head is not unlike a Macys Thanksgiving Day Float. I am glad to now possess something upon which I may now rest. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:43:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Evangelical Arrogance creates Corporate Dollar problems! Comments: cc: stefanie Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is a fascinating article in the British Independent about US corporations that are taking it in the wallet as global consumers resent the NeoCon imperial agenda, vote with their wallets and reject corporate brands (Microsoft, CocaCola, Nike, you know the drill). http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=424992 The cynic in me suggests that in the short run this will give rise to pseudo branding where these corporations establish impersonator brands to keep their distribution channels flowing. There will still be Nike shoes but they will bear new names (like "Lance" or individuals whose heroic reps have not been compromised by imperial dry drunk madness and recklessness. Gosh wasn't Tony Blair's "ends justify the means anywhere" speech more than a little stupefying - as if the fibers in body should determine the nature of Brit-US actions). More realistically I assume corporations are going to have to get behind a softer, kinder image and leader. For all appearances, I suspect George (and Cheney) will be looked upon as intractable and their "terminator" roles are about to canned before the next four year season. Whether the Democrats can pull somebody out of the current can that will reshape the "American image" is going to require a deep inner-search and major re-birthing pains! I am not about to take bets. But enough of my take, it's an illuminating article. Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:11:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: corework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII corework true - ancient hyperthermophilic bacteria archaic substrate transformation of recovered nhej substrate dna and sequence analysis of distribution of dna polymerases in archaea, bacteria, eukarya and true streams were generally characterized by volcanic geology, low grad- ient, and fine substrate. another site yielded a late archaic occupation, dated at 1940+/-50 and - true ceramic analysis at lake springs (9cb22): a late archaic site of characterization of novel anaerobic thermophilic iron (iii) - reducing bacteria faculty mentor and true - df 69k respiration starting from an ancient form of archaeon - by superoxide in the hyperthermophilic archaeon sulfolobus mn-sod is present in bacteria, archaea, mitochondria true - true ancient hyperthermophilic bacteria archaic substrate at nitrate reduction and denitrification, organic substrate utilization fermentation from hydrothermal vent, most ancient hyperthermophiles: archeoglobales - true - and true - if anthranilate is indeed the substrate of acl the operonic trp genes are ancient paralogs of a gene exchange between archaeal and bacter- ial hyperthermophiles. - true - you have evaluated the evidence for the alternative possibilities of lgt or ancient paralogy, as not yet appearing to make the f420 cofactor that is the substrate of f390 - true - if anthranilate is indeed the substrate of acl the operonic trp genes are ancient paralogs of a gene exchange between archaeal and bact- erial hyperthermophiles. - true gluconeogenesis - a more ancient pathway than more specialized enzymes with increased substrate specificity. observed in these hyper- thermophiles could have true - similar anaerobic chemolithoautotrophic hyperthermophiles, comp- letely independent and demonstrable that in ancient thermal springs - the litter of the substrate is also true - true - the filamentous hyperthermophiles stabilize themselves by attaching to the substrate surfaces and form the biogenicity of ancient siliceous hydrothermal archaeons - true - strongest arguments that these two ancient lineages share inform- ation can also occur in hyperthermophiles via substrate requirements for insights into the structure and substrate interactions of the basis for interpreting the biosignatures for ancient hydrothermal ecosystems and - true anthropologists tracking these ancient travelers by ... a more efficient alternative substrate than water to six similarly enriched hyperthermophiles from samples - true and false hyperthermophilic corework down to primordial bone - __ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:32:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII through the submerged world we are surrounded within it and the vials open pouring - our filaments channeled through every cell and membrane among those macroscopic moments of exaltation where thought is lost among pheronomic trailings and bacterial channels harbor lines extruded and metallic and dimly left behind - the slough of organism wields uncertain armor - rusted symbolism lost among archaea - with no one present [...] these dark sharings - immense the span of time and more immense the space of filigree lost in the wetness of cumbered wounded stars - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:15:54 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: Btw Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo , Peter Fogarty MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Been doing a little research on this and here's the clearest account of Newton's 4500 pages I've come across: "The most definitive date he set for the apocalypse, which he scribbled on a scrap of paper, was 2060. Newton's fascination with the end of the world, which has been researched by a Canadian academic, Stephen Snobelen, is to be explored in a documentary, Newton: The Dark Heretic, on BBC2 next Saturday. "What has been coming out over the past 10 years is what an apocalyptic thinker Newton was," Malcolm Neaum, the producer, said. "He spent something like 50 years and wrote 4,500 pages trying to predict when the end of the world was coming. But until now it was not known that he ever wrote down a final figure. He was very reluctant to do so." Thousands of Newton's papers, which had lain in a trunk in the house of the Earl of Portsmouth for 250 years, were sold by Sotheby's in the late 1930s. John Maynard Keynes, the economist, bought many of the texts on alchemy and theology. But much of the material went to an eccentric collector, Abraham Yahuda, and was stored in the Hebrew National Library. It was among these documents that the date was found." Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:58:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Crying Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii for Renee I pick fragments of my face out of us. I slip edge against edge, sole judge of this beauty. I am all gorgeous scars, for you to trace your fingers through. As if in cupping rainwater from shattered clouds you find your hands, so aching, while Jesus laughs and pulls another spit of sun through my nipples. It's slick here against the cross, two thieves flanking her, two thieves who shatter and contract when I touch what used to be you there. Icarus would want a neater sentence, but tongues shower the desert in gelatinous light, with granules of dust I steady this place in me that was once yours, knowing too that hoping for a stop to the movement is no hope at all, just space between both of us and the promises, the goddamned promises in the hall. Since you left me I walk at night to gape at that worn-out moon. What can you do when all the light in the room is tired of you, and Jah laughs like a drunk freshman, knocking down each and every wall you put up for protection? Just beyond you see the brightness promised by the end of the hall; you reach for it, but two thieves swoop down from nowhere, the sky maybe, slowly bloodied, and freeze your face like that, just when a fresh tide of crying breaks. ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:04:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: "EXPLORE A MEMORY FROM CHILDHOOD, FINDING ALL THE DETAILS YOU CAN" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "EXPLORE A MEMORY FROM CHILDHOOD, FINDING ALL THE DETAILS YOU CAN" www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_11.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_12.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_13.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_14.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_15.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_16.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_17.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_18.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_19.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_20.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_21.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_22.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_23.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_24.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_25.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_26.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_27.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_28.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_29.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_30.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_31.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_32.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_33.png august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/15/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:56:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: "DO YOU GO OUT TO EAT ALONE, TO THE MOVIES? WHY OR WHY NOT?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "DO YOU GO OUT TO EAT ALONE, TO THE MOVIES? WHY OR WHY NOT?" www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_34.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_35.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_36.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_37.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_38.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_39.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_40.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_41.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_42.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_43.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_44.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_45.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_46.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_47.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_48.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_49.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_50.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_51.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_52.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_53.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_54.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_55.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_56.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_57.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_58.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_59.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_60.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_61.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_62.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_63.png www.superheroes-of-humanities.com/visual_poetry/august_highland_64.png august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/15/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:00:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Btw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the information. Murat In a message dated 7/17/03 11:17:37 PM, david.bircumshaw@NTLWORLD.COM writes: >Been doing a little research on this and here's the clearest account of > >Newton's 4500 pages I've come across: > > > > > > > >"The most definitive date he set for the apocalypse, which he scribbled >on a > >scrap of paper, was 2060. > > > >Newton's fascination with the end of the world, which has been researched >by > >a Canadian academic, Stephen Snobelen, is to be explored in a documentary, > >Newton: The Dark Heretic, on BBC2 next Saturday. > > > >"What has been coming out over the past 10 years is what an apocalyptic > >thinker Newton was," Malcolm Neaum, the producer, said. > > > >"He spent something like 50 years and wrote 4,500 pages trying to predict > >when the end of the world was coming. But until now it was not known that >he > >ever wrote down a final figure. He was very reluctant to do so." > > > >Thousands of Newton's papers, which had lain in a trunk in the house of >the > >Earl of Portsmouth for 250 years, were sold by Sotheby's in the late 1930s. > > > >John Maynard Keynes, the economist, bought many of the texts on alchemy >and > >theology. But much of the material went to an eccentric collector, Abraham > >Yahuda, and was stored in the Hebrew National Library. It was among these > >documents that the date was found." > > > > > >Best > > > >Dave > > > > > >David Bircumshaw > > > >Leicester, England > > > >Home Page > > > >A Chide's Alphabet > > > >Painting Without Numbers > > > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm > > > >------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:01:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Btw In-Reply-To: <003d01c34cda$e73fb780$8bf4a8c0@netserver> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" what strikes me is the --uh, anti-semitism --of the last paragraph. as if the hebrew national library were some kind of eccentric, out of the way, obscure and inappropriate place --more so than a trunk in some earl's house or the private collection of an economist. At 4:15 AM +0100 7/18/03, david.bircumshaw wrote: >Been doing a little research on this and here's the clearest account of >Newton's 4500 pages I've come across: > > > >"The most definitive date he set for the apocalypse, which he scribbled on a >scrap of paper, was 2060. > >Newton's fascination with the end of the world, which has been researched by >a Canadian academic, Stephen Snobelen, is to be explored in a documentary, >Newton: The Dark Heretic, on BBC2 next Saturday. > >"What has been coming out over the past 10 years is what an apocalyptic >thinker Newton was," Malcolm Neaum, the producer, said. > >"He spent something like 50 years and wrote 4,500 pages trying to predict >when the end of the world was coming. But until now it was not known that he >ever wrote down a final figure. He was very reluctant to do so." > >Thousands of Newton's papers, which had lain in a trunk in the house of the >Earl of Portsmouth for 250 years, were sold by Sotheby's in the late 1930s. > >John Maynard Keynes, the economist, bought many of the texts on alchemy and >theology. But much of the material went to an eccentric collector, Abraham >Yahuda, and was stored in the Hebrew National Library. It was among these >documents that the date was found." > > >Best > >Dave > > >David Bircumshaw > >Leicester, England > >Home Page > >A Chide's Alphabet > >Painting Without Numbers > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:32:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: URGENT--Anderson, Brown, Manguso, Torres, Piombino MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I'm going to press with Boog City at 2 p.m. today and need some quick help: I need neighborhoods for Melissa Anderson, Liz Brown, Sarah Manguso, and Edwin Torres. Since we're a community newspaper, I prefer to put East Village instead of Manhattan, Park Slope instead of Brooklyn. If you know the nabe, or know any of their email address (which I may have elsewhere and am looking for) please respond backchannel to this here e-dress. Also, I need to contact Nick Piombino, and need his location. So if anyone has his location and/or email address, please backchannel. THANKS!! as ever, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:24:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucy Farber Subject: Berrigan and Thomas books from Blue Wind Press In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" "So Going Around Cities: New & Selected Poems" by Ted Berrigan and the new expanded edition of "Chances Are Few" by Lorenzo Thomas, with new poems added, are both published and available. An easy place to find the books is Borders Books which is stocking them all over the country. If they're not available in your local store they can easily get them from the warehouses. Of course, they can always be ordered directly from us at: Blue Wind Press/820 Miramar Ave./ Berkeley, CA 94707. (510) 525-2098. E-mail us with your address for an order form: info@bluewindpress.com -Lucy Farber ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:35:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: parks Comments: cc: Jonathan Skinner In-Reply-To: <20030716164229.79017.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yesterday evening I visited The Cantor Center - Stanford University's beautiful new Museum - for a good new show called, The Changing Garden: Four Centuries of Europe & American Art, curated by Betsy Fryberger, accompanied by a very good & visually packed Catalog (paintings, photographs, original designs) with several essays, now published by the University of California Press. I don't have the time to go into any detail - but just on the level of of the comparison of gardens with formal poetic practice is worth its weight in interesting gold. How different ages/eras invest themselves in the formal articulation and individual or social relationship to the use of "natural space" etc. (Olmsted, naturally(!) one of the players here in.) The contrast between American and European counterparts informative. To go out after to the nearby and restored "Arizona Garden" first planted at Stanford in the late 19th century - abundant with the sexiest most opulent i configurations of cacti imaginable (the Victorian imagination managed to get it way out there in ways that make much contemporary erotica seem a little mundane or constrained - well, that's a plug!) "Walking and thinking, to breathe the site..." (quote from an essay on Richard Hargeaves, Landscape Architect, in San Francisco he put together the new configuration of Crissy Field along the Bay towards the Golden Gate Bridge) Stephen Vincent on 7/16/03 9:42 AM, Lewis LaCook at llacook@YAHOO.COM wrote: > *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of > poets writing in and > around parks?* > > > not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's > "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think > of this==== > > i myself do a lot of writing in fields---i often find > myself attracted to big empty spots in the urban > landscape, those forgotten or undeveloped little > pockets allowed by neglect to flourish---"The Eyes of > The Roses," though not referencing this directly, was > written last night in just such a field--- > > bliss > l > > > > > ===== > > > NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone > http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ > > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > > tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:58:55 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Reading at Jack's: Angela Rawlings Comments: cc: "CPA Listserv@" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Monday, July 21st, 8 p.m. at Casual Jack’s Roadhouse (70 West St.) Angela Rawlings, writer, performer and hypermedia artist, will be reading from her work. Angela Rawlings is the author of wide slumber for lepidopterists, a work in progress, and the hypermedia project LOGYoLOGY. Since she graduated from York University in 2001 with specialization in experimental literature, theatre and dance, Angela has been co-organizing the Lexiconjury Reading Series in Toronto and acting as artistic liaison for “Scream in High Park,” Toronto’s acclaimed festival of poetry and performance. If you would like to take a look at some of her work, you can visit her website at http://www.commutiny.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:04:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Btw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Maria-- i think you have misread the paragraph in question it says that the collector is eccentric, not the museum eccentric collectors are so both in truth and in popular tropes it's a comon phrase and one often said fondly having managed a new/used/rare record/tape/cd store for seven years at one point i can assure you the world is filled with many eccentric collectors (participated gaily and madly in it myself) and many eccentric collectors in all fields have donated their collections to museums, libraries, various institutions it's a very generous move to make--from an eccentric individual quest to sharing it with the public many events daily show that it is dangerous to jump to swift conclusions from misreadings-- of documents, people, happenings-- how many people are shot by police on a misreading of a gesture . . . onwo/ards! david baptiste >From: Maria Damon >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Btw >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:01:20 -0500 > >what strikes me is the --uh, anti-semitism --of the last paragraph. >as if the hebrew national library were some kind of eccentric, out of >the way, obscure and inappropriate place --more so than a trunk in >some earl's house or the private collection of an economist. > >At 4:15 AM +0100 7/18/03, david.bircumshaw wrote: >>Been doing a little research on this and here's the clearest account of >>Newton's 4500 pages I've come across: >> >> >> >>"The most definitive date he set for the apocalypse, which he scribbled on >>a >>scrap of paper, was 2060. >> >>Newton's fascination with the end of the world, which has been researched >>by >>a Canadian academic, Stephen Snobelen, is to be explored in a documentary, >>Newton: The Dark Heretic, on BBC2 next Saturday. >> >>"What has been coming out over the past 10 years is what an apocalyptic >>thinker Newton was," Malcolm Neaum, the producer, said. >> >>"He spent something like 50 years and wrote 4,500 pages trying to predict >>when the end of the world was coming. But until now it was not known that >>he >>ever wrote down a final figure. He was very reluctant to do so." >> >>Thousands of Newton's papers, which had lain in a trunk in the house of >>the >>Earl of Portsmouth for 250 years, were sold by Sotheby's in the late >>1930s. >> >>John Maynard Keynes, the economist, bought many of the texts on alchemy >>and >>theology. But much of the material went to an eccentric collector, Abraham >>Yahuda, and was stored in the Hebrew National Library. It was among these >>documents that the date was found." >> >> >>Best >> >>Dave >> >> >>David Bircumshaw >> >>Leicester, England >> >>Home Page >> >>A Chide's Alphabet >> >>Painting Without Numbers >> >>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm > > >-- _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:19:10 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Today, seen from 73 years ago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UGllcnJlIEpvcmlzLA0KDQpJIGhhdmVuJ3QgaGVhcmQgb2YgdGhpcyBwb2V0IGJlZm9yZSwgYnV0 IHdhcyBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIHRoZSBwb2VtIGZyb20gdGhlIHZpZXdwb2ludCBvZiBmZWFzaWJp 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCj4gUGllcnJlIEpvcmlzDQo+IDYgTWFkaXNvbiBQbGFjZSAgICAgICAgIEFuZCB0aGV5IGNh bGwgcmVhZGluZyBhIHNpbiwgYW5kIHdyaXRpbmcgaXMgYSBjcmltZS4NCj4gQWxiYW55IE5ZIDEy MjAyICAgICAgICAgQW5kIG5vIGRvdWJ0IHRoaXMgaXMgbm90IGVudGlyZWx5IGZhbHNlLg0KPiBo OiA1MTggNDI2IDA0MzMgICAgICAgICBUaGV5IHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgZm9yZ2l2ZSB1cyBmb3IgdGhp cyBTb21ld2hlcmUgRWxzZS4NCj4gYzogNTE4IDIyNSA3MTIzDQo+IG86IDUxOCA0NDIgNDAgODUg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgLS0gVGhvbWFzIEJlcm5oYXJkDQo+IGVtYWlsOiBqb3Jpc0BhbGJhbnkuZWR1DQo+IGh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuYWxiYW55LmVkdS9+am9yaXMvDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:27:48 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Btw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There's a good article in The Literary Guide to the Bible edited by Frank Kermode on the reception of Revelation. The article was written by Bernard McGinn of the U. of Chicago. It traces the history of this reception from Augustine through Luther up through Newton and down to our own day. On p. 537, McGinn briefly writes about Newton, "The great age of English commentary on Revelation did not end with the Restoration, but there was little innovative thought. Henry More, the Cambridge Platonist, defended Mede's views against the rising tide of more critical scholarship, and Isaac Newton perfected the mathematical approach to prophetic calculations of world history with a monotony that led Voltaire to remark that 'Sir Isaac Newton wrote his comment upon the Revelation to console mankind for the great superiority he had over them in other respects.'" -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:35:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: You've got courriel Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit France bans 'e-mail' from vocabulary Friday, July 18, 2003 Posted: 12:35 PM EDT (1635 GMT) Protecting the language is normal, but e-mail's so assimilated now that no one thinks of it as American. -- Marie-Christine Levet, French Internet executive PARIS, France (AP) -- Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello "courriel" -- the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using to refer to electronic mail in official documents. The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon. The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail -- a claim some industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words. "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail' in English," the commission has ruled. Calling it artificial The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission said. The 7-year-old commission has links to the Academie Francaise, the prestigious institution that has been one of the top opponents of allowing English terms to seep into French. Some Internet industry experts say the decision is artificial and doesn't reflect reality. "The word 'courriel' is not at all actively used," Marie-Christine Levet, president of French Internet service provider Club Internet, said Friday. "E-mail has sunk in to our values." She said Club Internet wasn't changing the words it uses. "Protecting the language is normal, but e-mail's so assimilated now that no one thinks of it as American," she said. "Courriel would just be a new word to launch." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:57:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: ~ Appreciation ~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A fork is a fork, of course. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:05:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: You've got courriel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems to be an appropriate response to "Freedom Fries" :-) Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k3 __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) www.blazevox.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: You've got courriel > France bans 'e-mail' from vocabulary > > Friday, July 18, 2003 Posted: 12:35 PM EDT (1635 GMT) > > Protecting the language is normal, but e-mail's so assimilated now that > no one thinks of it as American. > > -- Marie-Christine Levet, French Internet executive > > PARIS, France (AP) -- Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and > hello "courriel" -- the term that linguistically sensitive France is > now using to refer to electronic mail in official documents. > > The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all > government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest > step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon. > > The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists > Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier > electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail -- a claim some > industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words. > > "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly > used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail' > in English," the commission has ruled. > > Calling it artificial > > The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was > published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a > term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission > said. > > The 7-year-old commission has links to the Academie Francaise, the > prestigious institution that has been one of the top opponents of > allowing English terms to seep into French. > > Some Internet industry experts say the decision is artificial and > doesn't reflect reality. > > "The word 'courriel' is not at all actively used," Marie-Christine > Levet, president of French Internet service provider Club Internet, > said Friday. "E-mail has sunk in to our values." > > She said Club Internet wasn't changing the words it uses. > > "Protecting the language is normal, but e-mail's so assimilated now > that no one thinks of it as American," she said. "Courriel would just > be a new word to launch." > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:22:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: ~ Appreciation ~ In-Reply-To: <000001c34d66$d21d14b0$5b016ace@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 12:57 PM -0700 7/18/03, Derek R wrote: >A fork is a fork, of course. of course, but no one can talk to a fork, of course. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:22:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Kaspar Hauser Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed STANHOPE: You have night-vision, where the rest of us walk blind. KASPAR: But the wrong kind. STANHOPE: Who would speak against you? Who has? No one ever does. KASPAR: I want to be a rider like my father was. STANHOPE: Who will be at my deathbed's side? A ton? KASPAR: No one. STANHOPE: Who'll be there to witness my last breath? KASPAR: Death. STANHOPE: What put you on this earth? What undreamt forces? KASPAR: My wooden horses. STANHOPE: You are a natural, while the rest of us are lost in the dark. KASPAR: It's no walk in the park. STANHOPE: What did your keeper say when he last saw you? KASPAR: We are through. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:26:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: ~ Appreciation ~ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria Damon wrote: >| of course, but no one can talk to a fork, of course We all have our own anxious expectations . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:32:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: AIDS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Listserv members: I am working with Yusef Komunyaaka, Charles Rowell, Sonia Sanchez, and ot= hers to motivate a literary and artistic response to the AIDS crisis in Africa= . We are having a Marathon reading at Bowery Poetry Club (308 Bowery St. an= d Houston St.) on September 2 (Tuesday) from 5 PM to Midnight. We would lov= e to involve poets and readers from the list. We will completely understand= if you are not able to be involved. If interested, please contact me dire= ctly at 212-723-4125 or devineni@rattapallax.com . Some of the poets who will be reading are Yusef Komunyaaka, Sapphire, Gra= ce Schulman, Glyn Maxwell, Meena Alexander, Timothy Liu, Minnie Bruce Pratt,= Tory Dent, Willie Perdomo, Bob Holman, William Pitt Root, Karen Swenson, Regie Cabico, Edwin Torres, F.D Reeve, Todd Colby, Cecilia Vicu=F1a, Jack= ie Sheeler, Anselm Berrigan, Douglas Martin, C.A. Conrad, Nathalie Handal, Daniel Nester, Yerra Sugarman, Prageeta Sharma, Bonnie Marcus, Daniela Gi= oseffi, Fl=E1via Rocha, Maggie Balistreri, Karma Mayet Johnson, Claudia Alick, Je= sse Alick, Guy Sharar, Aracelis Girmay, Isabelle Balot, Bill Kushner, Elaine Schwager, Jeet Thayil, Ron Price, and others. I realize poets will not find a cure for AIDS, but we hope that we can mo= tivate, educate, and raise funds for organizations working in Africa. The lack of= interest in Africa has caused 10-20% of the population being infected wit= h AIDS in some African nations. We are working closely with the Ghana Educa= tion Project (GEP) and other organizations on several levels. 1. Raise funds for GEP to build libraries and train volunteers as Interna= tional AIDS Instructors through the International Red Cross. 2. Send a delegation to Ghana* 3. Setup readings in the U.S. and Africa to motivate people and develop dialogue. 4. Produce a literary/world music CD on AIDS and donate ALL the proceeds to GEP. 5. Work with the UN on World AIDS Day programs. 6. Setup international exchange program with African poets. We will be asking audience members for a $10 suggested donation and in re= turn they will get to stay as long as they like and get books from Rattapallax= Press valuing over $20. All proceeds will go to GEP. Thanks Ram Devineni Publisher Rattapallax *One major thing we plan to do is send a delegation of leading poets and writers to the West African nation of Ghana. The delegation will visit the Korle-Bu hospital fevers unit and communities devastated by AIDS and meet with President Kofuor. GEP website is: http://www.ghanaeducation.org= http://www.bowerypoetry.com / http://www.rattapallax.com / http://www.dia= loguepoetry.org Rattapallax Press 532 La Guardia Place, Suite 353 New York, NY 10012 USA http://www.rattapallax.com http://www.dialoguepoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:37:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Where to find Boog City in NYC and any suggestions? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, We're distributing Boog City tomorrow--Brenda Iijima, Rodrigo Toscano, and me, joined by very special guest chaffeur, my dad and his shiny Jeep Cherokee. I'm pasting below a list of where we will be dropping Boog City throughout the East Village (and a few non-EV locations). If you have any suggestions on other drop spots, please email ASAP, so we can hit them, too. thanks! as ever, david _________ East Village Acme Underground Alt 137 Alt.coffee Angelica’s Herbs Angelika Theater Anthology Film Archives Barnes & Noble (Astor Place) Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Café Pick Me Up CBGB’s CB’s 313 Gallery Cedar Tavern C-Note Continental Free Cell Comm. Lakeside Lounge Life Café Living Room Lucien’s Mission Café Nuyorican Poets Café The Pink Pony Religious Sex See Hear Shakespeare & Co. St. Mark’s Books St. Mark’s Church Sunshine Theater Tonic Tower Books Non East Village ACA Galleries Here Hotel Chelsea Knitting Factory Poets House Revolution Books WBAI The Westbeth Theater ------ David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:39:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: ~ Appreciation ~ In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Of course, no one can fork a fork without at least one fork getting forked, of course on 7/18/03 1:22 PM, Maria Damon at damon001@UMN.EDU wrote: > At 12:57 PM -0700 7/18/03, Derek R wrote: >> A fork is a fork, of course. > > > of course, but no one can talk to a fork, of course. > > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:47:43 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@colorado.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Wright Organization: University of Colorado Subject: Subday Press Pre-Release Reading 7/25 in Boulder, CO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing The Subday Press Pre-Release Reading Friday, July 25th, 8PM, Left Hand Books Boulder, CO Newly founded Subday Press invites you to the inaugural reading to celebrate the upcoming release of books of poetry by Melissa Benham (codeswitching) Matt Langley ( (...) ) Sean MacInnes (Critical Series) Summer Rodman (a train came by and slowed) and Teresa Sparks. ( untitled ) We hope you can join us to celebrate the emergence of five recently graduated Naropan writers and one fledgling press onto the literary scene. All five poets will be discussing their projects and reading from their work. Refreshments will be provided. Discounted rates will be available for all volumes (these will be advance orders). With any luck, a book or two may be back from the press. Subday Press was founded by kyle kaufman in a bar in Lousiville shortly before xmas, and is happy to be releasing five volumes of poetry this summer. Our thanks to Left Hand and Laura for offering to host. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:42:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I lost the backchannel address of the person to send ghazals to - anyhow, why not brave another here? Ghazal Improvisation My expositional brain working to grasp at thought develops eggshell cracks, hence, leakage of thought. So many spins of the carousel, riding uncountable rounds, so dizzy I don't catch the brass ring of a single thought. As the dock creaks your figure sways. I gaze nonplussed at the foamy tracks of your thought. Sky a gray canvas. Call a breeze to daub fantasy clouds where we stand among wild poppies, lost in thought. Whatever I say whatever I do fails of any success: Oh Charlotte, self-detractor of pride in poetic thought! Charlotte Mandel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:18:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: just about time, soldier - who MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII just about time, soldier - who s aimed his gun in my direction v born and later y but ghosts come always back furious g coward, fearful of any k father a healthier fashion, even the z from 1994 i buried selves n genre. why didn't other people tell i'm tired this d impetus against wall writing which insanity everywhere world, among friends x into every q lake firefight was going m me what doing, i'd have been able b nonfictionally. i've seen far too much c now escape through others creatively p on above cliffs or over u sometime lost others. alan, she said, stop it. w picture. j rest family placing darkness hurtling o them. know better l to work out relations with e unbearable. sexuality became f violence tension is t just about time, soldier - virginity time - r when we were floating h world. still live there; covenant final remnant dispersion its dissipation forgotten languagings fissured itself desperately attempting division purity impurity good and evil just about time, soldier - there shall be no offspring fornication for such way truth annihilation within inconceivable temperatures trillions centigrade facing gluon quark divisibilities losses graphemes alphabets all inscriptive devices those lines are entirely effaced you shove your cock tight cunt forever - just about time, soldier - leaders disciples can testify sing praises resolute deity nothing prevent catastrophe disappearance wavering neither that shuddering not both given wisdom understanding knife-blade edge cold strung-out energy matter forgetting separation justices injustices codices empty demarcations just about time, soldier - already fading thinking how impure there's none at boiling quarks strings dark matters soul emptied untethering witnesses more awk -f yy < afilter > zz awk: yy:3: lat er ^ unterminate string ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:55:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: ~ Appreciation ~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit of course one ~can~ speak with a forked tongue, but a tongue is a sandwich meat unless of course its pastrami which is eaten with the fingers and not a fork and it's just plain weird to eat a sandwich with a fork unless its open faced and I of course keep my face closed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:22 PM Subject: Re: ~ Appreciation ~ > At 12:57 PM -0700 7/18/03, Derek R wrote: > >A fork is a fork, of course. > > > of course, but no one can talk to a fork, of course. > > > > -- > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:49:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Peacitude MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT These comments about Silliman's blog indicate to me how Brian is super attentive to the outer limits of a sociological code that Silliman has (among others associated with LP) imported into poetry. Without question, the outer constitutive limits of the code, which point to structural faults and such in the very code itself, are in constant need of adjustment and revision, not defense. What could, and I think should, be defended, though, but not as in any way integral to either an aesthetics of reading or to the direct making of poetry, is the sociological code itself in poetry. I think it's a great achievement and a productive, healthy one for the life of multiple poetries. If one admits that such a code is worth defending, then contesting the value-neutral word of any statement (since no word is truly neutral) goes hand-in-hand with defending a kind of principle of objectivity that any proposed value neutrality needs to be founded on. So what interests me is how we get from adjustments and revisions at the level of an aesthetics of reading, to adjustments and revisions of the sociological code in poetry. Or at least, this I think is a serious challenge. I sometimes think Silliman's comments are read as proposing an aesthetics of reading (which you might love, or hate), rather than as proposing inevitably self-limiting value-neutral statements. But another way to read Silliman is as arguing, ultimately, for a kind of principle of objectivity, a principle that is, of course, in constant need of adjustment and revision by everyone including Silliman himself (since no word can be value-neutral, after all!). So, I have a difficult time understanding why anyone would want to turn Silliman/LP into the very essence of the mainstream - in every sense of the word mainstream (class, race, gender, etc), out-Lowelling Lowell, as it were. I can only understand this move as part of an aesthetics of reading. It is not yet an adjustment and revision of the sociological code as practiced in poetry. To repeat, in this, a crucial point above, the sociological code in poetry, pro or con, perhaps has little to do, I think, in any direct sense, with making poetry. It's presence in poetry is a response to the situation in which poetry finds itself in the broader culture. Poets sometimes feel compelled to wear these other hats. I think Brian is pointing in both directions, towards an aesthetics of reading, and towards improvements and adjustments on the sociological code in poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:05:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corina Copp Subject: boog city distribution Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David Kirschenbaum asked me to post this as he's already posted twice today: ---- Forgot to mention we distrib in Williamsburg, too, and could also use additions to the below list. thanks, david ________ Clovis Press Earwax L Cafe L Cafe To Go Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Cafe --------- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:09:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: FAMILY LIST IN 6 LINES Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit goat feather wassiya fedara pattar pattar axle village flood axle pecu earth-walls fat cow hound shuo ekn baino sling-stone sister baraiti father tor daugher-in-law father's pacarpillar pitaryoke housefihu womanpesso FAMILY LIST IN 6 LINES (278K) http://www.spidertangle.net/PROTObyte/rusty_list.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:46:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Mary Burger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have contact information (besides snail mail) for Mary = Burger, (publisher 2nd story books, SF, CA)? Thanks, JS ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:15:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) Now we w nt you (being foreigner) to be fronted s one of his next of kin nd forw rd Your ccount nd other relev nt documents to be dvised to you by us to ttest to the Cl im. We will use our positions to get ll intern l document tions to b ck up the cl ims .The whole procedures will l st only ten working d ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without tr ce even in future. Your response is only wh t we re w iting for s we h ve rr nged ll necess ry things As soon s this mess ge comes to you kindly get b ck to me indic ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you with the whole procedures to ensure th t the de l is successfully Concluded ijnek. "f" 1 BABEL=of DIGITAL_m ss DIME DNA I I LIM LOAD X bsent=of=embryo ll lso ltern ting n n nd nd nd nd SIDA nt nt nt nt nts poc lypse poptosis w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds blue body body body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver c d ver c d ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city clone clone clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre te current cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber flesh focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down he ven hell hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is joke junkie l pse l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or org n org n other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp ce spine str ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to to to to to to? topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r zero irot ris. AIDS Kenji Sir tori cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v gin of the br in of the nt of the he ven th t the mirror im ge of ch os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which m sk d nces=to the urb n m nhole of f/0 of the c d ver th t blindfolds the sun of chromosome to genes s distic vision of the lonely cyber se son of the pl cent of the clone LOAD the embryo who be ts the vein th t turned p le nt of null=of=the drug org n w s being conducted perceive the se son of the l tency of outer sp ce to the br in of the sun th t DNA of the chopped me t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of c d ver! cre te the l ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky spine of the junkie c d ver to the body fiber of the poc lypse th t embryo become w re of the future tense of the sun th t scr ps the body org n of the city to the m sochistic ltern ting current of the nts th t is tr nsmitted nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th t bec me upside-down! f t lities of horizon loops embryo of l st br in to world of 1 gr m of joke evoke to? the e rth=the emotion l p rticle of "f" th t w s c ught by the hell of cell to the LIM br in system of the nt th t focuses topologic soul nd others of the e rth who go str ight the v in sol r system of clone-tok ge th t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp ce where I gr sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m ss of flesh of c d ver nd come nd lso bsent=of=embryo of body th t becomes unknown tow rd the coordin tes in ll of the l pse of memory or th t control the br in of n nt I hope? to continue to tell the f t lities of the light ye r of n embryo on the other side of this poptosis sun-- __ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:33:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who are not baby boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 Ray > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > > Now we w > nt you (being > foreigner) to be fronted > s one of his next of > kin > nd forw > rd Your > ccount > nd other relev > nt documents to be > dvised to > you by us to > ttest to the Cl > im. We will use our positions to get > ll > intern > l document > tions to b > ck up the cl > ims .The whole procedures will > l > st only ten working d > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without > tr > ce even in future. Your response is only wh > t we > re w > iting for > s we > h > ve > rr > nged > ll necess > ry things As soon > s this mess > ge comes to you > kindly get b > ck to me indic > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you > with the whole procedures to ensure th > t the de > l is successfully > Concluded > > ijnek. > > > "f" > 1 > BABEL=of > DIGITAL_m > ss > DIME > DNA > I > I > LIM > LOAD > X > > > > bsent=of=embryo > > ll > > lso > > ltern > ting > > n > > n > > nd > > nd > > nd > > nd > SIDA > nt > > nt > > nt > > nt > > nts > > poc > lypse > > poptosis > > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds blue body body > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver c d ver c d > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city clone clone > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre te current > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber flesh > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down he ven hell > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is joke junkie l pse > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of of of of of of > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or org n org n > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent > > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp ce spine str > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th t th t th t > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the the the the > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to to to to to to? > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin > > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r zero > > > irot > ris. > > > AIDS > Kenji Sir > tori > > > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v > gin > of the br > in of the > nt of the > he > ven th > t the mirror im > ge of ch > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which > > m > sk d > nces=to the urb > n m > nhole of f/0 of the c > d > ver th > t blindfolds the > sun of > chromosome to genes s > distic vision of the lonely cyber se > son of > the pl > cent > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be > ts the vein th > t turned > p > le > nt of null=of=the drug org > n w > s being conducted perceive the se > son > of the l > tency of outer sp > ce to the br > in of the sun th > t DNA of the > chopped me > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of > > c > d > ver! cre > te the l > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky > spine of the junkie c > d > ver to the body fiber of the > poc > lypse th > t embryo > become > w > re of the future tense of the sun th > t scr > ps the body org > n of > the city to the m > sochistic > ltern > ting current of the > nts th > t is > tr > nsmitted > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th > t bec > me > upside-down! f > t > lities of horizon loops embryo of l > st br > in to world of 1 > gr > m of joke evoke to? the e > rth=the emotion > l p > rticle of "f" th > t w > s > c > ught by the hell of > cell to the LIM br > in system of the > nt th > t focuses > topologic soul > nd others of the e > rth who go str > ight the v > in sol > r system > of clone-tok > ge th > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp > ce where > I gr > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m > ss of flesh of > c > d > ver > nd > come > nd > lso > bsent=of=embryo of body th > t becomes unknown tow > rd the > coordin > tes in > ll of the l > pse of memory or th > t control the br > in of > n > > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f > t > lities of the light ye > r of > n > embryo on the other side of this > poptosis sun-- > > > __ > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:07:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: SEX! 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SEE BEAUTIFUL WITH BREAST SUCCESS BREAST ENHANCEMENT, ADDING INCHES BREAST SUCCESS IS AN ALL NATURAL HERBAL SUPPLEMENT DESIGNED OVER A FEW MONTHS YOUR BREASTS WILL BECOME FULLER AND FIRMER /usr/games/caesar -14 < zz > yy 78 /usr/games/caesar -2 < zz > yy 79 man /usr/games/caesar 1 < zz > yy 90 pico yy 35 rm nb 36 du 37 ls 38 m 39 pico jj 40 sort jj > yy 41 pico yy 42 pico 84 ls 85 cd 86 ls 87 /usr/games/caesar 24 < yy > zz 88 pico zz 89 TO NATURALLY INCREASE THE SIZE, SHAPE AND FIRMNESS OF WOMEN'S BREASTS. a-z A-Z < zz > yy 51 pico yy 52 h 53 sed 's/^ //g' yy > zz 54 pico zz 55 caesar 80 h 81 /usr/games/caesar 1 < zz > yy 82 pico yy 83 cd /usr/games pico yy 66 h 67 tr ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA tr A-Z Z-A < zz > yy 56 pico yy 57 h 58 tr [A-Z] [Z-A] < zz > yy 59 pico yy 60 h 61 tr AZ ZA < zz > yy 62 pico yy 63 h 64 tr [AZ] [ZA] < zz > yy yy 73 sed 's/^/^ /g' zz > yy 74 pico yy 75 h 76 sed 's/^/ /g' zz > yy 77 zz > yy 68 pico yy 69 less zz 70 h 71 /usr/games/caesar < zz > yy 72 zz h 44 pico jj 45 sort jj > zz 46 rm jj 47 ls 48 rm yy 49 pico zz 50 tr ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:15:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the o-blek double issue _Writing from the New Coast_... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haas Bianchi" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who are not baby > boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of > "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > > > > > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > > > > > Now we w > > nt you (being > > foreigner) to be fronted > > s one of his next of > > kin > > nd forw > > rd Your > > ccount > > nd other relev > > nt documents to be > > dvised to > > you by us to > > ttest to the Cl > > im. We will use our positions to get > > ll > > intern > > l document > > tions to b > > ck up the cl > > ims .The whole procedures will > > l > > st only ten working d > > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without > > tr > > ce even in future. Your response is only wh > > t we > > re w > > iting for > > s we > > h > > ve > > rr > > nged > > ll necess > > ry things As soon > > s this mess > > ge comes to you > > kindly get b > > ck to me indic > > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you > > with the whole procedures to ensure th > > t the de > > l is successfully > > Concluded > > > > ijnek. > > > > > > "f" > > 1 > > BABEL=of > > DIGITAL_m > > ss > > DIME > > DNA > > I > > I > > LIM > > LOAD > > X > > > > > > > > bsent=of=embryo > > > > ll > > > > lso > > > > ltern > > ting > > > > n > > > > n > > > > nd > > > > nd > > > > nd > > > > nd > > SIDA > > nt > > > > nt > > > > nt > > > > nt > > > > nts > > > > poc > > lypse > > > > poptosis > > > > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds blue body body > > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver c d ver c d > > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city clone clone > > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre te current > > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo > > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber flesh > > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down he ven hell > > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is joke junkie l pse > > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m > > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of of of of of of > > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of > > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or org n org n > > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent > > > > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp ce spine str > > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th t th t th t > > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the the the the > > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to to to to to to? > > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin > > > > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r zero > > > > > > irot > > ris. > > > > > > AIDS > > Kenji Sir > > tori > > > > > > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v > > gin > > of the br > > in of the > > nt of the > > he > > ven th > > t the mirror im > > ge of ch > > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which > > > > m > > sk d > > nces=to the urb > > n m > > nhole of f/0 of the c > > d > > ver th > > t blindfolds the > > sun of > > chromosome to genes s > > distic vision of the lonely cyber se > > son of > > the pl > > cent > > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be > > ts the vein th > > t turned > > p > > le > > nt of null=of=the drug org > > n w > > s being conducted perceive the se > > son > > of the l > > tency of outer sp > > ce to the br > > in of the sun th > > t DNA of the > > chopped me > > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of > > > > c > > d > > ver! cre > > te the l > > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky > > spine of the junkie c > > d > > ver to the body fiber of the > > poc > > lypse th > > t embryo > > become > > w > > re of the future tense of the sun th > > t scr > > ps the body org > > n of > > the city to the m > > sochistic > > ltern > > ting current of the > > nts th > > t is > > tr > > nsmitted > > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th > > t bec > > me > > upside-down! f > > t > > lities of horizon loops embryo of l > > st br > > in to world of 1 > > gr > > m of joke evoke to? the e > > rth=the emotion > > l p > > rticle of "f" th > > t w > > s > > c > > ught by the hell of > > cell to the LIM br > > in system of the > > nt th > > t focuses > > topologic soul > > nd others of the e > > rth who go str > > ight the v > > in sol > > r system > > of clone-tok > > ge th > > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp > > ce where > > I gr > > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m > > ss of flesh of > > c > > d > > ver > > nd > > come > > nd > > lso > > bsent=of=embryo of body th > > t becomes unknown tow > > rd the > > coordin > > tes in > > ll of the l > > pse of memory or th > > t control the br > > in of > > n > > > > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f > > t > > lities of the light ye > > r of > > n > > embryo on the other side of this > > poptosis sun-- > > > > > > __ > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 05:42:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: Btw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah the article didn't strike me as being anti-semitic as the emphasis was on the individual eccentricity of the collector, if anything I'd say the particular slant was on Newton's oddities of mind, my response, as an Englishman myself, was to chuckle at it: yup, this country is populated by nutters! All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:05:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just realized one thing. I think all the gazels sent to the list repeat the last word of the second line. In the gazel form the ends of second lines rhyme with each other, not repeat the last word. Why is that? Murat In a message dated 7/18/03 4:52:37 PM, Clmndl@AOL.COM writes: >I lost the backchannel address of the person to send ghazals to - anyhow, >why >not brave another here? > >Ghazal Improvisation > >My expositional brain working to grasp at thought >develops eggshell cracks, hence, leakage of thought. > >So many spins of the carousel, riding uncountable rounds, >so dizzy I don't catch the brass ring of a single thought. > >As the dock creaks your figure sways. I gaze >nonplussed at the foamy tracks of your thought. > >Sky a gray canvas. Call a breeze to daub fantasy clouds >where we stand among wild poppies, lost in thought. > >Whatever I say whatever I do fails of any success: >Oh Charlotte, self-detractor of pride in poetic thought! > >Charlotte Mandel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 03:54:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Ghazal In-Reply-To: <18e.1d677dce.2c4a2ba9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think the way Agha Shahid Ali was teaching the form in English, the ghazal couplets *end* with the same word, and repeat an *internal* rhyme somewhere in the line. Obviously this is easier to do in Urdu and Arabic in which many of the words rhyme easier; in Urdu particularly (I don't know if this is true in Arabic or Persian) the form takes on specific unity: the last word of a syntactic sentence is generally the verb so I guess one version of an English ghazal that would respect the *intensity* of the Urdu ghazal might be one that used the same *verb* in each couplet and not the same final line. --- Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > I just realized one thing. I think all the gazels > sent to the list repeat the > last word of the second line. In the gazel form the > ends of second lines > rhyme with each other, not repeat the last word. Why > is that? > Murat > > > In a message dated 7/18/03 4:52:37 PM, > Clmndl@AOL.COM writes: > > >I lost the backchannel address of the person to > send ghazals to - anyhow, > >why > >not brave another here? > > > >Ghazal Improvisation > > > >My expositional brain working to grasp at thought > >develops eggshell cracks, hence, leakage of > thought. > > > >So many spins of the carousel, riding uncountable > rounds, > >so dizzy I don't catch the brass ring of a single > thought. > > > >As the dock creaks your figure sways. I gaze > >nonplussed at the foamy tracks of your thought. > > > >Sky a gray canvas. Call a breeze to daub fantasy > clouds > >where we stand among wild poppies, lost in thought. > > > >Whatever I say whatever I do fails of any success: > >Oh Charlotte, self-detractor of pride in poetic > thought! > > > >Charlotte Mandel ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:43:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: <001901c34dac$5b2ceb50$492bfea9@vaio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks RB > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jerrold Shiroma [ > Duration Press ] > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:15 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the > o-blek double > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > > > Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who are not baby > > boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of > > "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > > > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > > > > > > > > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > > > > > > > > Now we w > > > nt you (being > > > foreigner) to be fronted > > > s one of his next of > > > kin > > > nd forw > > > rd Your > > > ccount > > > nd other relev > > > nt documents to be > > > dvised to > > > you by us to > > > ttest to the Cl > > > im. We will use our positions to get > > > ll > > > intern > > > l document > > > tions to b > > > ck up the cl > > > ims .The whole procedures will > > > l > > > st only ten working d > > > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without > > > tr > > > ce even in future. Your response is only wh > > > t we > > > re w > > > iting for > > > s we > > > h > > > ve > > > rr > > > nged > > > ll necess > > > ry things As soon > > > s this mess > > > ge comes to you > > > kindly get b > > > ck to me indic > > > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you > > > with the whole procedures to ensure th > > > t the de > > > l is successfully > > > Concluded > > > > > > ijnek. > > > > > > > > > "f" > > > 1 > > > BABEL=of > > > DIGITAL_m > > > ss > > > DIME > > > DNA > > > I > > > I > > > LIM > > > LOAD > > > X > > > > > > > > > > > > bsent=of=embryo > > > > > > ll > > > > > > lso > > > > > > ltern > > > ting > > > > > > n > > > > > > n > > > > > > nd > > > > > > nd > > > > > > nd > > > > > > nd > > > SIDA > > > nt > > > > > > nt > > > > > > nt > > > > > > nt > > > > > > nts > > > > > > poc > > > lypse > > > > > > poptosis > > > > > > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds blue > body body > > > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver c > d ver c d > > > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city > clone clone > > > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre > te current > > > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo > > > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber > flesh > > > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down he ven hell > > > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is joke junkie l > pse > > > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m > > > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of of of of of > of > > > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of > of of of of > of > > > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or > org n org n > > > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent > > > > > > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp ce > spine str > > > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th > t th t th t > > > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the > the the the > > > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > the the the > > > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > the the the > > > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to to to to to > to? > > > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin > > > > > > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r > zero > > > > > > > > > irot > > > ris. > > > > > > > > > AIDS > > > Kenji Sir > > > tori > > > > > > > > > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v > > > gin > > > of the br > > > in of the > > > nt of the > > > he > > > ven th > > > t the mirror im > > > ge of ch > > > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which > > > > > > m > > > sk d > > > nces=to the urb > > > n m > > > nhole of f/0 of the c > > > d > > > ver th > > > t blindfolds the > > > sun of > > > chromosome to genes s > > > distic vision of the lonely cyber se > > > son of > > > the pl > > > cent > > > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be > > > ts the vein th > > > t turned > > > p > > > le > > > nt of null=of=the drug org > > > n w > > > s being conducted perceive the se > > > son > > > of the l > > > tency of outer sp > > > ce to the br > > > in of the sun th > > > t DNA of the > > > chopped me > > > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of > > > > > > c > > > d > > > ver! cre > > > te the l > > > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky > > > spine of the junkie c > > > d > > > ver to the body fiber of the > > > poc > > > lypse th > > > t embryo > > > become > > > w > > > re of the future tense of the sun th > > > t scr > > > ps the body org > > > n of > > > the city to the m > > > sochistic > > > ltern > > > ting current of the > > > nts th > > > t is > > > tr > > > nsmitted > > > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th > > > t bec > > > me > > > upside-down! f > > > t > > > lities of horizon loops embryo of l > > > st br > > > in to world of 1 > > > gr > > > m of joke evoke to? the e > > > rth=the emotion > > > l p > > > rticle of "f" th > > > t w > > > s > > > c > > > ught by the hell of > > > cell to the LIM br > > > in system of the > > > nt th > > > t focuses > > > topologic soul > > > nd others of the e > > > rth who go str > > > ight the v > > > in sol > > > r system > > > of clone-tok > > > ge th > > > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp > > > ce where > > > I gr > > > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m > > > ss of flesh of > > > c > > > d > > > ver > > > nd > > > come > > > nd > > > lso > > > bsent=of=embryo of body th > > > t becomes unknown tow > > > rd the > > > coordin > > > tes in > > > ll of the l > > > pse of memory or th > > > t control the br > > > in of > > > n > > > > > > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f > > > t > > > lities of the light ye > > > r of > > > n > > > embryo on the other side of this > > > poptosis sun-- > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:54:53 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit oh gosh, there's gotta be something better.... ---------- >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM > > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the o-blek double > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who are not baby >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 >> >> Ray >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >> > >> > >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >> > >> > >> > Now we w >> > nt you (being >> > foreigner) to be fronted >> > s one of his next of >> > kin >> > nd forw >> > rd Your >> > ccount >> > nd other relev >> > nt documents to be >> > dvised to >> > you by us to >> > ttest to the Cl >> > im. We will use our positions to get >> > ll >> > intern >> > l document >> > tions to b >> > ck up the cl >> > ims .The whole procedures will >> > l >> > st only ten working d >> > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without >> > tr >> > ce even in future. Your response is only wh >> > t we >> > re w >> > iting for >> > s we >> > h >> > ve >> > rr >> > nged >> > ll necess >> > ry things As soon >> > s this mess >> > ge comes to you >> > kindly get b >> > ck to me indic >> > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you >> > with the whole procedures to ensure th >> > t the de >> > l is successfully >> > Concluded >> > >> > ijnek. >> > >> > >> > "f" >> > 1 >> > BABEL=of >> > DIGITAL_m >> > ss >> > DIME >> > DNA >> > I >> > I >> > LIM >> > LOAD >> > X >> > >> > >> > >> > bsent=of=embryo >> > >> > ll >> > >> > lso >> > >> > ltern >> > ting >> > >> > n >> > >> > n >> > >> > nd >> > >> > nd >> > >> > nd >> > >> > nd >> > SIDA >> > nt >> > >> > nt >> > >> > nt >> > >> > nt >> > >> > nts >> > >> > poc >> > lypse >> > >> > poptosis >> > >> > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds blue body body >> > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver c d ver c d >> > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city clone clone >> > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre te current >> > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo >> > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber > flesh >> > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down he ven hell >> > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is joke junkie l > pse >> > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m >> > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of of of of of > of >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of > of >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or org n org n >> > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent >> > >> > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp ce spine str >> > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th t th t th t >> > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the the the the >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >> > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to to to to to > to? >> > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin >> > >> > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r > zero >> > >> > >> > irot >> > ris. >> > >> > >> > AIDS >> > Kenji Sir >> > tori >> > >> > >> > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v >> > gin >> > of the br >> > in of the >> > nt of the >> > he >> > ven th >> > t the mirror im >> > ge of ch >> > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which >> > >> > m >> > sk d >> > nces=to the urb >> > n m >> > nhole of f/0 of the c >> > d >> > ver th >> > t blindfolds the >> > sun of >> > chromosome to genes s >> > distic vision of the lonely cyber se >> > son of >> > the pl >> > cent >> > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be >> > ts the vein th >> > t turned >> > p >> > le >> > nt of null=of=the drug org >> > n w >> > s being conducted perceive the se >> > son >> > of the l >> > tency of outer sp >> > ce to the br >> > in of the sun th >> > t DNA of the >> > chopped me >> > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of >> > >> > c >> > d >> > ver! cre >> > te the l >> > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky >> > spine of the junkie c >> > d >> > ver to the body fiber of the >> > poc >> > lypse th >> > t embryo >> > become >> > w >> > re of the future tense of the sun th >> > t scr >> > ps the body org >> > n of >> > the city to the m >> > sochistic >> > ltern >> > ting current of the >> > nts th >> > t is >> > tr >> > nsmitted >> > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th >> > t bec >> > me >> > upside-down! f >> > t >> > lities of horizon loops embryo of l >> > st br >> > in to world of 1 >> > gr >> > m of joke evoke to? the e >> > rth=the emotion >> > l p >> > rticle of "f" th >> > t w >> > s >> > c >> > ught by the hell of >> > cell to the LIM br >> > in system of the >> > nt th >> > t focuses >> > topologic soul >> > nd others of the e >> > rth who go str >> > ight the v >> > in sol >> > r system >> > of clone-tok >> > ge th >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp >> > ce where >> > I gr >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m >> > ss of flesh of >> > c >> > d >> > ver >> > nd >> > come >> > nd >> > lso >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th >> > t becomes unknown tow >> > rd the >> > coordin >> > tes in >> > ll of the l >> > pse of memory or th >> > t control the br >> > in of >> > n >> > >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f >> > t >> > lities of the light ye >> > r of >> > n >> > embryo on the other side of this >> > poptosis sun-- >> > >> > >> > __ >> > >> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:54:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know but those of us in this catagory are not represented--- if I love Charles Bernstein's work and it is seminal for me but where are new avant garde poets??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????? > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino > Stroffolino > Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:55 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > > oh gosh, > there's gotta be something better.... > > > > ---------- > >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM > > > > > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the > o-blek double > > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Haas Bianchi" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM > > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > > > > >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who > are not baby > >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of > >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > >> > >> Ray > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group > >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM > >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > >> > > >> > > >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > >> > > >> > > >> > Now we w > >> > nt you (being > >> > foreigner) to be fronted > >> > s one of his next of > >> > kin > >> > nd forw > >> > rd Your > >> > ccount > >> > nd other relev > >> > nt documents to be > >> > dvised to > >> > you by us to > >> > ttest to the Cl > >> > im. We will use our positions to get > >> > ll > >> > intern > >> > l document > >> > tions to b > >> > ck up the cl > >> > ims .The whole procedures will > >> > l > >> > st only ten working d > >> > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without > >> > tr > >> > ce even in future. Your response is only wh > >> > t we > >> > re w > >> > iting for > >> > s we > >> > h > >> > ve > >> > rr > >> > nged > >> > ll necess > >> > ry things As soon > >> > s this mess > >> > ge comes to you > >> > kindly get b > >> > ck to me indic > >> > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you > >> > with the whole procedures to ensure th > >> > t the de > >> > l is successfully > >> > Concluded > >> > > >> > ijnek. > >> > > >> > > >> > "f" > >> > 1 > >> > BABEL=of > >> > DIGITAL_m > >> > ss > >> > DIME > >> > DNA > >> > I > >> > I > >> > LIM > >> > LOAD > >> > X > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > bsent=of=embryo > >> > > >> > ll > >> > > >> > lso > >> > > >> > ltern > >> > ting > >> > > >> > n > >> > > >> > n > >> > > >> > nd > >> > > >> > nd > >> > > >> > nd > >> > > >> > nd > >> > SIDA > >> > nt > >> > > >> > nt > >> > > >> > nt > >> > > >> > nt > >> > > >> > nts > >> > > >> > poc > >> > lypse > >> > > >> > poptosis > >> > > >> > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds > blue body body > >> > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver > c d ver c d > >> > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city > clone clone > >> > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre > te current > >> > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo > >> > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber > > flesh > >> > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down > he ven hell > >> > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is > joke junkie l > > pse > >> > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m > >> > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of > of of of of > > of > >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of > of of of of > > of > >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or > org n org n > >> > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent > >> > > >> > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp > ce spine str > >> > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th > t th t th t > >> > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the > the the the > >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > the the the > >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > the the the > >> > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to > to to to to > > to? > >> > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin > >> > > >> > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r > > zero > >> > > >> > > >> > irot > >> > ris. > >> > > >> > > >> > AIDS > >> > Kenji Sir > >> > tori > >> > > >> > > >> > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v > >> > gin > >> > of the br > >> > in of the > >> > nt of the > >> > he > >> > ven th > >> > t the mirror im > >> > ge of ch > >> > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which > >> > > >> > m > >> > sk d > >> > nces=to the urb > >> > n m > >> > nhole of f/0 of the c > >> > d > >> > ver th > >> > t blindfolds the > >> > sun of > >> > chromosome to genes s > >> > distic vision of the lonely cyber se > >> > son of > >> > the pl > >> > cent > >> > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be > >> > ts the vein th > >> > t turned > >> > p > >> > le > >> > nt of null=of=the drug org > >> > n w > >> > s being conducted perceive the se > >> > son > >> > of the l > >> > tency of outer sp > >> > ce to the br > >> > in of the sun th > >> > t DNA of the > >> > chopped me > >> > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of > >> > > >> > c > >> > d > >> > ver! cre > >> > te the l > >> > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky > >> > spine of the junkie c > >> > d > >> > ver to the body fiber of the > >> > poc > >> > lypse th > >> > t embryo > >> > become > >> > w > >> > re of the future tense of the sun th > >> > t scr > >> > ps the body org > >> > n of > >> > the city to the m > >> > sochistic > >> > ltern > >> > ting current of the > >> > nts th > >> > t is > >> > tr > >> > nsmitted > >> > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th > >> > t bec > >> > me > >> > upside-down! f > >> > t > >> > lities of horizon loops embryo of l > >> > st br > >> > in to world of 1 > >> > gr > >> > m of joke evoke to? the e > >> > rth=the emotion > >> > l p > >> > rticle of "f" th > >> > t w > >> > s > >> > c > >> > ught by the hell of > >> > cell to the LIM br > >> > in system of the > >> > nt th > >> > t focuses > >> > topologic soul > >> > nd others of the e > >> > rth who go str > >> > ight the v > >> > in sol > >> > r system > >> > of clone-tok > >> > ge th > >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp > >> > ce where > >> > I gr > >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m > >> > ss of flesh of > >> > c > >> > d > >> > ver > >> > nd > >> > come > >> > nd > >> > lso > >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th > >> > t becomes unknown tow > >> > rd the > >> > coordin > >> > tes in > >> > ll of the l > >> > pse of memory or th > >> > t control the br > >> > in of > >> > n > >> > > >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f > >> > t > >> > lities of the light ye > >> > r of > >> > n > >> > embryo on the other side of this > >> > poptosis sun-- > >> > > >> > > >> > __ > >> > > >> > >> > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:53:29 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As always, they're in the little magazines. Hard to find. But increasingly evident as they publish more. I edited an anthology of mostly east coast poets soon to be out from Potes and Poets Press that has a substantial number of poets born, say, after 1960. Which is just to note that such anthologies might either be currently in the works, or somewhere down a short line into the future. From: Haas Bianchi Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:54:31 -0500 I know but those of us in this catagory are not represented--- if I love Charles Bernstein's work and it is seminal for me but where are new avant garde poets??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????? >-----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino >Stroffolino Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:55 AM To: >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After >1966 > > >oh gosh, there's gotta be something better.... > > > >---------- >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" >To: >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After >1966 >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM > > > > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the o-blek >double > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > > > > > ----- Original >Message ----- > From: "Haas Bianchi" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 >8:33 PM > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > >> Does Anyone >know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who are not baby >> boomers but >are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of >> >"contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 >> >> >Ray >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -----Original >Message----- >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> > >[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim >> > Sent: >Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > >Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >> > >> > >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > >> > >> > >> > Now we w >> > nt you (being >> > foreigner) to be fronted > >> > s one of his next of >> > kin >> > nd forw >> > rd Your >> > ccount > >> > nd other relev >> > nt documents to be >> > dvised to >> > you by us >to >> > ttest to the Cl >> > im. We will use our positions to get >> > ll > >> > intern >> > l document >> > tions to b >> > ck up the cl >> > ims >.The whole procedures will >> > l >> > st only ten working d >> > ys to get >the fund retrieved successfully Without >> > tr >> > ce even in future. >Your response is only wh >> > t we >> > re w >> > iting for >> > s we >> > >h >> > ve >> > rr >> > nged >> > ll necess >> > ry things As soon >> > s >this mess >> > ge comes to you >> > kindly get b >> > ck to me indic >> > >ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you >> > with the whole procedures >to ensure th >> > t the de >> > l is successfully >> > Concluded >> > >> > >ijnek. >> > >> > >> > "f" >> > 1 >> > BABEL=of >> > DIGITAL_m >> > ss >> > >DIME >> > DNA >> > I >> > I >> > LIM >> > LOAD >> > X >> > >> > >> > >> > >bsent=of=embryo >> > >> > ll >> > >> > lso >> > >> > ltern >> > ting >> > > >> > n >> > >> > n >> > >> > nd >> > >> > nd >> > >> > nd >> > >> > nd >> > > SIDA >> > nt >> > >> > nt >> > >> > nt >> > >> > nt >> > >> > nts >> > > >> > poc >> > lypse >> > >> > poptosis >> > >> > w re be ts bec me become >become becomes being blindfolds blue body body >> > body br in br in br in >br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver c d ver c d >> > ver c d ver! c ught >cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city clone clone >> > clone-tok ge come >conducted continue control coordin tes cre te current >> > cyber >cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo >> > embryo >embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber > flesh >> > >focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down he ven hell >> > >hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is joke junkie l > >pse >> > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m > >> > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of of of of >of > of >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of >of of of > of >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on >or org n org n >> > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent > >> > >> > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp ce >spine str >> > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th >t th t th t >> > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the >the the the the >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the >the the the the the >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the >the the the the the the >> > the the the the the the there thinking this to >to to to to to to to to > to? >> > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned >unknown upside-down! urb n v gin >> > >> > v in vein vision w s w s where >which who who with without world ye r > zero >> > >> > >> > irot >> > ris. > >> > >> > >> > AIDS >> > Kenji Sir >> > tori >> > >> > >> > cyber*embryo >of buffoonery=of the v >> > gin >> > of the br >> > in of the >> > nt of >the >> > he >> > ven th >> > t the mirror im >> > ge of ch >> > os >grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which >> > >> > m >> > sk d >> > nces=to the >urb >> > n m >> > nhole of f/0 of the c >> > d >> > ver th >> > t >blindfolds the >> > sun of >> > chromosome to genes s >> > distic vision of >the lonely cyber se >> > son of >> > the pl >> > cent >> > of the clone >LOAD the embryo who be >> > ts the vein th >> > t turned >> > p >> > le >> > > nt of null=of=the drug org >> > n w >> > s being conducted perceive the >se >> > son >> > of the l >> > tency of outer sp >> > ce to the br >> > in >of the sun th >> > t DNA of the >> > chopped me >> > t of the horizon dives >into the desire of the X foot of >> > >> > c >> > d >> > ver! cre >> > te >the l >> > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky >> > >spine of the junkie c >> > d >> > ver to the body fiber of the >> > poc >> > > lypse th >> > t embryo >> > become >> > w >> > re of the future tense of >the sun th >> > t scr >> > ps the body org >> > n of >> > the city to the m > >> > sochistic >> > ltern >> > ting current of the >> > nts th >> > t is > >> > tr >> > nsmitted >> > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell >th >> > t bec >> > me >> > upside-down! f >> > t >> > lities of horizon >loops embryo of l >> > st br >> > in to world of 1 >> > gr >> > m of joke >evoke to? the e >> > rth=the emotion >> > l p >> > rticle of "f" th >> > t >w >> > s >> > c >> > ught by the hell of >> > cell to the LIM br >> > in >system of the >> > nt th >> > t focuses >> > topologic soul >> > nd others >of the e >> > rth who go str >> > ight the v >> > in sol >> > r system >> > >of clone-tok >> > ge th >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer >sp >> > ce where >> > I gr >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m >> > > ss of flesh of >> > c >> > d >> > ver >> > nd >> > come >> > nd >> > lso > >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th >> > t becomes unknown tow >> > rd the >> > > coordin >> > tes in >> > ll of the l >> > pse of memory or th >> > t >control the br >> > in of >> > n >> > >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell >the f >> > t >> > lities of the light ye >> > r of >> > n >> > embryo on >the other side of this >> > poptosis sun-- >> > >> > >> > __ >> > >> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:55:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: experimental film - decasia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The current screening of _Decasia_ on the Sundance Channel might be of interest to those who have access. I saw it at Zeitgeist in New Orleans a few months ago. Awesome. Screening times are at the end of this message. Camille Camille Martin 7725 Cohn St. New Orleans, LA 70118 http://www.sundancechannel.com/ DECASIA directed by Bill Morrison YEAR 2002 66 MINS, Color Appeared at the 2002 Sundance Film Festival Although film deterioration is a serious threat to the cultural legacy of the 20th century - 50% of all American films made before 1950 have been lost - filmmaker Bill Morrison proves that even from tragedy, profound art can result. Compiling scenes from badly deteriorated archive films, Morrison has created a highly original experimental film in which the subjects on screen live in a world of shifting shapes, blobby monsters and ubiquitous clouds of debris. Likened by one critic to an antiquarian KOYAANISQATSI, DECASIA is a beautiful, challenging and mesmerizing meditation on time, mortality and man's longing to transcend his physical existence. The hypnotic minimalist score was written by Michael Gordon, one of America's leading young composers and co-founder and co-artistic director of the new music festival Bang on a Can. TVPG Stereo/BW/Subtitles PRODUCER Bill Morrison SCREENWRITER Bill Morrison EDITOR Bill Morrison COMPOSER Michael Gordon Saturday 07.19.2003 1:45PM Saturday 07.19.2003 11:15PM Thursday 07.24.2003 2:35PM Friday 07.25.2003 3:15AM ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:02:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Chris Stroffolino, don't say that about your own book! It's very good! But since then, Kevin Prufer has an anthology (through SIU press?) called New Younger American Poets which I've used in classes a few times and like very much...it's a nice range of aesthetics, not all experimental, but good. And Carnegie-Mellon put one out, too, of writers born in the 60s and later which I like pretty well. Arielle --- Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino wrote: > oh gosh, > there's gotta be something better.... > > > > ---------- > >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM > > > > > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American > Poets_...the o-blek double > > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Haas Bianchi" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM > > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > > > > >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by > poets who are not baby > >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all > the anthologies of > >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were > "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > >> > >> Ray > >> > >> > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:09:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re ghazal rules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to Kazim and Murat - I just looked up Agha Shahid Ali's discussion in= =20 AN EXALTATION OF FORMS (Ed Finch & Varnes). My previous try of simply=20 repeating end word of second lines was off the mark: ghazal form also requ= ires a=20 rhyme, set up in the first couplet, just before the duplicated end word or=20 phrase; last couplet to include poet's name or pseudonym in some way. So, a new "improv" - SUMMER GHAZAL Unusual to breathe honeysuckle breeze in July, listening within green-leaf rustle, at ease in July. Ozone lost, we parch in a planetary greenhouse. Skies boom rainless thunder--an out-of-season July. Eyes closed, chin in hand, what do I dream to acquire? A blue-sailed ship across level seas in July. And milking the goat, do we deprive her kid? The nursling=E2=80=99s weaned--no guilt to filter cheese in July. Settle down, wash your hands, pour tea over ice. All backyard manners of delight are C=E2=80=99s in July. Charlotte Mandel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:56:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Ahearn Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: <000001c34da6$87be2040$a650a243@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jack Myers has done some anthologies--New American Poets of the 80s and New American Poets of the 90s--that may work for you. Best, Joe At 10:33 PM 7/18/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who are not baby >boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of >"contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > >Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim >> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >> >> >> mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >> >> >> Now we w >> nt you (being >> foreigner) to be fronted >> s one of his next of >> kin >> nd forw >> rd Your >> ccount >> nd other relev >> nt documents to be >> dvised to >> you by us to >> ttest to the Cl >> im. We will use our positions to get >> ll >> intern >> l document >> tions to b >> ck up the cl >> ims .The whole procedures will >> l >> st only ten working d >> ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without >> tr >> ce even in future. Your response is only wh >> t we >> re w >> iting for >> s we >> h >> ve >> rr >> nged >> ll necess >> ry things As soon >> s this mess >> ge comes to you >> kindly get b >> ck to me indic >> ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you >> with the whole procedures to ensure th >> t the de >> l is successfully >> Concluded >> >> ijnek. >> >> >> "f" >> 1 >> BABEL=of >> DIGITAL_m >> ss >> DIME >> DNA >> I >> I >> LIM >> LOAD >> X >> >> >> >> bsent=of=embryo >> >> ll >> >> lso >> >> ltern >> ting >> >> n >> >> n >> >> nd >> >> nd >> >> nd >> >> nd >> SIDA >> nt >> >> nt >> >> nt >> >> nt >> >> nts >> >> poc >> lypse >> >> poptosis >> >> w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds blue body body >> body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver c d ver c d >> ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city clone clone >> clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre te current >> cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo >> embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber flesh >> focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down he ven hell >> hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is joke junkie l pse >> l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m >> sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of of of of of of >> of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of >> of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or org n org n >> other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent >> >> s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp ce spine str >> ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th t th t th t >> th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the the the the >> the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >> the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >> the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to to to to to to? >> topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin >> >> v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r zero >> >> >> irot >> ris. >> >> >> AIDS >> Kenji Sir >> tori >> >> >> cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v >> gin >> of the br >> in of the >> nt of the >> he >> ven th >> t the mirror im >> ge of ch >> os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which >> >> m >> sk d >> nces=to the urb >> n m >> nhole of f/0 of the c >> d >> ver th >> t blindfolds the >> sun of >> chromosome to genes s >> distic vision of the lonely cyber se >> son of >> the pl >> cent >> of the clone LOAD the embryo who be >> ts the vein th >> t turned >> p >> le >> nt of null=of=the drug org >> n w >> s being conducted perceive the se >> son >> of the l >> tency of outer sp >> ce to the br >> in of the sun th >> t DNA of the >> chopped me >> t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of >> >> c >> d >> ver! cre >> te the l >> ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky >> spine of the junkie c >> d >> ver to the body fiber of the >> poc >> lypse th >> t embryo >> become >> w >> re of the future tense of the sun th >> t scr >> ps the body org >> n of >> the city to the m >> sochistic >> ltern >> ting current of the >> nts th >> t is >> tr >> nsmitted >> nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th >> t bec >> me >> upside-down! f >> t >> lities of horizon loops embryo of l >> st br >> in to world of 1 >> gr >> m of joke evoke to? the e >> rth=the emotion >> l p >> rticle of "f" th >> t w >> s >> c >> ught by the hell of >> cell to the LIM br >> in system of the >> nt th >> t focuses >> topologic soul >> nd others of the e >> rth who go str >> ight the v >> in sol >> r system >> of clone-tok >> ge th >> t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp >> ce where >> I gr >> sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m >> ss of flesh of >> c >> d >> ver >> nd >> come >> nd >> lso >> bsent=of=embryo of body th >> t becomes unknown tow >> rd the >> coordin >> tes in >> ll of the l >> pse of memory or th >> t control the br >> in of >> n >> >> nt I hope? to continue to tell the f >> t >> lities of the light ye >> r of >> n >> embryo on the other side of this >> poptosis sun-- >> >> >> __ >> ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Joe Ahearn joeah@mail.airmail.net Calamus Publication Services: www.calamuspubs.com VEER magazine: www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:10:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Ahearn Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: <000101c34e1e$ce219a80$a650a243@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Check out the journal 26, published sort of by people in or associated with the MFA program at St Mary's. Lots of interesting young poets. Ditto Skanky Possum, published out of good old Austin, TX. jra At 12:54 PM 7/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I know but those of us in this catagory are not represented--- if I love >Charles Bernstein's work and it is seminal for me but where are new avant >garde >poets??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? >??????????????????????????????????? > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino >> Stroffolino >> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:55 AM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >> >> >> oh gosh, >> there's gotta be something better.... >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >> >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM >> > >> >> > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the >> o-blek double >> > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Haas Bianchi" >> > To: >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM >> > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >> > >> > >> >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who >> are not baby >> >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of >> >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 >> >> >> >> Ray >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >> >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim >> >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM >> >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Now we w >> >> > nt you (being >> >> > foreigner) to be fronted >> >> > s one of his next of >> >> > kin >> >> > nd forw >> >> > rd Your >> >> > ccount >> >> > nd other relev >> >> > nt documents to be >> >> > dvised to >> >> > you by us to >> >> > ttest to the Cl >> >> > im. We will use our positions to get >> >> > ll >> >> > intern >> >> > l document >> >> > tions to b >> >> > ck up the cl >> >> > ims .The whole procedures will >> >> > l >> >> > st only ten working d >> >> > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without >> >> > tr >> >> > ce even in future. Your response is only wh >> >> > t we >> >> > re w >> >> > iting for >> >> > s we >> >> > h >> >> > ve >> >> > rr >> >> > nged >> >> > ll necess >> >> > ry things As soon >> >> > s this mess >> >> > ge comes to you >> >> > kindly get b >> >> > ck to me indic >> >> > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you >> >> > with the whole procedures to ensure th >> >> > t the de >> >> > l is successfully >> >> > Concluded >> >> > >> >> > ijnek. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > "f" >> >> > 1 >> >> > BABEL=of >> >> > DIGITAL_m >> >> > ss >> >> > DIME >> >> > DNA >> >> > I >> >> > I >> >> > LIM >> >> > LOAD >> >> > X >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > bsent=of=embryo >> >> > >> >> > ll >> >> > >> >> > lso >> >> > >> >> > ltern >> >> > ting >> >> > >> >> > n >> >> > >> >> > n >> >> > >> >> > nd >> >> > >> >> > nd >> >> > >> >> > nd >> >> > >> >> > nd >> >> > SIDA >> >> > nt >> >> > >> >> > nt >> >> > >> >> > nt >> >> > >> >> > nt >> >> > >> >> > nts >> >> > >> >> > poc >> >> > lypse >> >> > >> >> > poptosis >> >> > >> >> > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds >> blue body body >> >> > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver >> c d ver c d >> >> > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city >> clone clone >> >> > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre >> te current >> >> > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo >> >> > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber >> > flesh >> >> > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down >> he ven hell >> >> > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is >> joke junkie l >> > pse >> >> > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m >> >> > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of >> of of of of >> > of >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of >> of of of of >> > of >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or >> org n org n >> >> > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent >> >> > >> >> > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp >> ce spine str >> >> > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th >> t th t th t >> >> > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the >> the the the >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >> the the the >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >> the the the >> >> > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to >> to to to to >> > to? >> >> > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin >> >> > >> >> > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r >> > zero >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > irot >> >> > ris. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > AIDS >> >> > Kenji Sir >> >> > tori >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v >> >> > gin >> >> > of the br >> >> > in of the >> >> > nt of the >> >> > he >> >> > ven th >> >> > t the mirror im >> >> > ge of ch >> >> > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which >> >> > >> >> > m >> >> > sk d >> >> > nces=to the urb >> >> > n m >> >> > nhole of f/0 of the c >> >> > d >> >> > ver th >> >> > t blindfolds the >> >> > sun of >> >> > chromosome to genes s >> >> > distic vision of the lonely cyber se >> >> > son of >> >> > the pl >> >> > cent >> >> > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be >> >> > ts the vein th >> >> > t turned >> >> > p >> >> > le >> >> > nt of null=of=the drug org >> >> > n w >> >> > s being conducted perceive the se >> >> > son >> >> > of the l >> >> > tency of outer sp >> >> > ce to the br >> >> > in of the sun th >> >> > t DNA of the >> >> > chopped me >> >> > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of >> >> > >> >> > c >> >> > d >> >> > ver! cre >> >> > te the l >> >> > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky >> >> > spine of the junkie c >> >> > d >> >> > ver to the body fiber of the >> >> > poc >> >> > lypse th >> >> > t embryo >> >> > become >> >> > w >> >> > re of the future tense of the sun th >> >> > t scr >> >> > ps the body org >> >> > n of >> >> > the city to the m >> >> > sochistic >> >> > ltern >> >> > ting current of the >> >> > nts th >> >> > t is >> >> > tr >> >> > nsmitted >> >> > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th >> >> > t bec >> >> > me >> >> > upside-down! f >> >> > t >> >> > lities of horizon loops embryo of l >> >> > st br >> >> > in to world of 1 >> >> > gr >> >> > m of joke evoke to? the e >> >> > rth=the emotion >> >> > l p >> >> > rticle of "f" th >> >> > t w >> >> > s >> >> > c >> >> > ught by the hell of >> >> > cell to the LIM br >> >> > in system of the >> >> > nt th >> >> > t focuses >> >> > topologic soul >> >> > nd others of the e >> >> > rth who go str >> >> > ight the v >> >> > in sol >> >> > r system >> >> > of clone-tok >> >> > ge th >> >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp >> >> > ce where >> >> > I gr >> >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m >> >> > ss of flesh of >> >> > c >> >> > d >> >> > ver >> >> > nd >> >> > come >> >> > nd >> >> > lso >> >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th >> >> > t becomes unknown tow >> >> > rd the >> >> > coordin >> >> > tes in >> >> > ll of the l >> >> > pse of memory or th >> >> > t control the br >> >> > in of >> >> > n >> >> > >> >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f >> >> > t >> >> > lities of the light ye >> >> > r of >> >> > n >> >> > embryo on the other side of this >> >> > poptosis sun-- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > __ >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Joe Ahearn joeah@mail.airmail.net Calamus Publication Services: www.calamuspubs.com VEER magazine: www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:46:54 -0400 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is an anthology of New American Poets edited by Lisa Jarnot and (I think) Todd Colby which might fit the bill. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Ahearn" To: Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 4:10 PM Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > Check out the journal 26, published sort of by people in or associated with the > MFA program at St Mary's. Lots of interesting young poets. Ditto Skanky Possum, > published out of good old Austin, TX. > > jra > > > At 12:54 PM 7/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >I know but those of us in this catagory are not represented--- if I love > >Charles Bernstein's work and it is seminal for me but where are new avant > >garde > >poets?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? > >??????????????????????????????????? > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: UB Poetics discussion group > >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino > >> Stroffolino > >> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:55 AM > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >> > >> > >> oh gosh, > >> there's gotta be something better.... > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------- > >> >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" > >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >> >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM > >> > > >> > >> > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the > >> o-blek double > >> > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Haas Bianchi" > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM > >> > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >> > > >> > > >> >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who > >> are not baby > >> >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of > >> >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > >> >> > >> >> Ray > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group > >> >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > >> >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM > >> >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> >> > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Now we w > >> >> > nt you (being > >> >> > foreigner) to be fronted > >> >> > s one of his next of > >> >> > kin > >> >> > nd forw > >> >> > rd Your > >> >> > ccount > >> >> > nd other relev > >> >> > nt documents to be > >> >> > dvised to > >> >> > you by us to > >> >> > ttest to the Cl > >> >> > im. We will use our positions to get > >> >> > ll > >> >> > intern > >> >> > l document > >> >> > tions to b > >> >> > ck up the cl > >> >> > ims .The whole procedures will > >> >> > l > >> >> > st only ten working d > >> >> > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without > >> >> > tr > >> >> > ce even in future. Your response is only wh > >> >> > t we > >> >> > re w > >> >> > iting for > >> >> > s we > >> >> > h > >> >> > ve > >> >> > rr > >> >> > nged > >> >> > ll necess > >> >> > ry things As soon > >> >> > s this mess > >> >> > ge comes to you > >> >> > kindly get b > >> >> > ck to me indic > >> >> > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you > >> >> > with the whole procedures to ensure th > >> >> > t the de > >> >> > l is successfully > >> >> > Concluded > >> >> > > >> >> > ijnek. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > "f" > >> >> > 1 > >> >> > BABEL=of > >> >> > DIGITAL_m > >> >> > ss > >> >> > DIME > >> >> > DNA > >> >> > I > >> >> > I > >> >> > LIM > >> >> > LOAD > >> >> > X > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > bsent=of=embryo > >> >> > > >> >> > ll > >> >> > > >> >> > lso > >> >> > > >> >> > ltern > >> >> > ting > >> >> > > >> >> > n > >> >> > > >> >> > n > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > SIDA > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nts > >> >> > > >> >> > poc > >> >> > lypse > >> >> > > >> >> > poptosis > >> >> > > >> >> > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds > >> blue body body > >> >> > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver > >> c d ver c d > >> >> > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city > >> clone clone > >> >> > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre > >> te current > >> >> > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the embryo > >> >> > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities fiber > >> > flesh > >> >> > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down > >> he ven hell > >> >> > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is > >> joke junkie l > >> > pse > >> >> > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m > >> >> > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of > >> of of of of > >> > of > >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of > >> of of of of > >> > of > >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or > >> org n org n > >> >> > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent > >> >> > > >> >> > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp > >> ce spine str > >> >> > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th > >> t th t th t > >> >> > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the > >> the the the > >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > >> the the the > >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > >> the the the > >> >> > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to > >> to to to to > >> > to? > >> >> > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v gin > >> >> > > >> >> > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye r > >> > zero > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > irot > >> >> > ris. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > AIDS > >> >> > Kenji Sir > >> >> > tori > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v > >> >> > gin > >> >> > of the br > >> >> > in of the > >> >> > nt of the > >> >> > he > >> >> > ven th > >> >> > t the mirror im > >> >> > ge of ch > >> >> > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which > >> >> > > >> >> > m > >> >> > sk d > >> >> > nces=to the urb > >> >> > n m > >> >> > nhole of f/0 of the c > >> >> > d > >> >> > ver th > >> >> > t blindfolds the > >> >> > sun of > >> >> > chromosome to genes s > >> >> > distic vision of the lonely cyber se > >> >> > son of > >> >> > the pl > >> >> > cent > >> >> > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be > >> >> > ts the vein th > >> >> > t turned > >> >> > p > >> >> > le > >> >> > nt of null=of=the drug org > >> >> > n w > >> >> > s being conducted perceive the se > >> >> > son > >> >> > of the l > >> >> > tency of outer sp > >> >> > ce to the br > >> >> > in of the sun th > >> >> > t DNA of the > >> >> > chopped me > >> >> > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of > >> >> > > >> >> > c > >> >> > d > >> >> > ver! cre > >> >> > te the l > >> >> > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky > >> >> > spine of the junkie c > >> >> > d > >> >> > ver to the body fiber of the > >> >> > poc > >> >> > lypse th > >> >> > t embryo > >> >> > become > >> >> > w > >> >> > re of the future tense of the sun th > >> >> > t scr > >> >> > ps the body org > >> >> > n of > >> >> > the city to the m > >> >> > sochistic > >> >> > ltern > >> >> > ting current of the > >> >> > nts th > >> >> > t is > >> >> > tr > >> >> > nsmitted > >> >> > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th > >> >> > t bec > >> >> > me > >> >> > upside-down! f > >> >> > t > >> >> > lities of horizon loops embryo of l > >> >> > st br > >> >> > in to world of 1 > >> >> > gr > >> >> > m of joke evoke to? the e > >> >> > rth=the emotion > >> >> > l p > >> >> > rticle of "f" th > >> >> > t w > >> >> > s > >> >> > c > >> >> > ught by the hell of > >> >> > cell to the LIM br > >> >> > in system of the > >> >> > nt th > >> >> > t focuses > >> >> > topologic soul > >> >> > nd others of the e > >> >> > rth who go str > >> >> > ight the v > >> >> > in sol > >> >> > r system > >> >> > of clone-tok > >> >> > ge th > >> >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp > >> >> > ce where > >> >> > I gr > >> >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m > >> >> > ss of flesh of > >> >> > c > >> >> > d > >> >> > ver > >> >> > nd > >> >> > come > >> >> > nd > >> >> > lso > >> >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th > >> >> > t becomes unknown tow > >> >> > rd the > >> >> > coordin > >> >> > tes in > >> >> > ll of the l > >> >> > pse of memory or th > >> >> > t control the br > >> >> > in of > >> >> > n > >> >> > > >> >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f > >> >> > t > >> >> > lities of the light ye > >> >> > r of > >> >> > n > >> >> > embryo on the other side of this > >> >> > poptosis sun-- > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > __ > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > _________ > Joe Ahearn > joeah@mail.airmail.net > Calamus Publication Services: www.calamuspubs.com > VEER magazine: www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:11:34 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Appreciating forks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------Original Message------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:22:57 -0500 From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: ~ Appreciation ~ At 12:57 PM -0700 7/18/03, Derek R wrote: >A fork is a fork, of course. of course, but no one can talk to a fork, of course. -------------- Unless, of course, the fork, of course, is the utensil Mr. Ed. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:51:52 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: [m] Review of Aaron Belz's Chapbook BANGS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kirby Olson wrote: > Bangs, by Aaron Belz. NYC: Mass Deportation Press, 2002. 36 pp. > > Reviewed by Kirby Olson > > Why haven't you read Aaron Belz's chapbook Bangs? It is an airy and whimsical > cathedral. The printing is heavenly, including what I believe is called a colophon made > of a weird translucent paper on which is written the words adoramus te. I have number 60 > of 110 copies. I think the style is somewhere between Wallace Stevens and John Ashbery. > It has the gracefulness of Stevens, and the nonsensicality with a hint of something > deeper of Ashbery. > > "I lay prone throughout Cubafest. > Flies buzzed melodiously in and out of my > transparent head. > I lay on a shirt-covered couch. > I lay among foil and comic book pages, > appliances humming in other rooms" (p. 4) > > After four stanzas of this kind of thing, the poem ends in italics: > > "Brad, that's enough. Play it somewhere else." > > As if the mother is telling the son to please stop being so precious as it's annoying. > These poems are kind of practice sessions that reveal something else sur la route, as > they say. The shorter poems don't work as well. What works is when he gets two > different languages going -- the abstract and precious versus the hard and concrete. > Here's an example of a shorter poem that quits before it starts: > > Edward Applesauce Opens it Up > > A tiny plucking of teeth, said Maximus, edging toward > > That's a whole poem on p. 31. Or he says it is. It annoys me however as there's no > tension in it. Here it reminds me of the playfulness of the sixties that went on in the > seventies with less conviction and still continues under the rubric of amusing ourselves > to death, as the NY School dances off the last edges of their time. So you get a slide. > First, Wallace Stevens, whose gorgeousness cannot be denied, and yet who clearly believes > only in pleasure. The only emperor is the emperor of ice cream, as he put it. Then you > have John Ashbery who spent his life sending different kinds of language sliding under > one another but remaining out of my hearing of any kind of final principle, and who was > very unhappy, according to all accounts, and yet who clearly had a certain verbal > complexity that most poets are lacking. Stevens and Ashbery also seemed to avoid deeper > emotions, preferring to skate on the surface. Belz is in that school and is at his best > at his most aesthetically complex as he can keep a number of routines going > simultaneously and one watches this as it is always like watching several sticks rubbing > together and just about to burst into flame. The flames around our feet, as he once said > in an email. > > -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:50:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Hypermutable Transient Stabilization #0001- #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hypermutable Transient Stabilization #0001- #0003 [Now[the[soul[only] [Gre[Avor][wher][sett] [like[arch][In][h][carr] [made[and][spac][prod] [imag[reso][one[She[them] [Shak][whic][I]p[the] [Cric][grea[had][worr][are] [a]co][the[Asso][Ange] [Symp[She[How[Howe[the] [Air][spac][me[of][b] [apar][pers][the[pers][as] [h][the[chai]I]h][Arab] [scar][tone[suit[writ] [clos][batt[the[took][at] [t[shal[Dyud][he][f][into] [over][sure[to][a[the] [then][clai[acti[acco] [Defe[are[The[envi[cons] [mult[I]d][woul[answ] [flex[be][s][like[home] [Be[a]ch][stru[uncl] [Befo][said][went[Hes] [sens][she[expe[firs] [blow[with][afte[Broa] [over][dinn][unde[do][m][] [Ja[inqu[magi[of][f][dead] [If][capa[and][that] [mone[Well[and][spec] [crea[Life[poli[ever] [bein][inqu[you[one[this] [to]h][Thou[is][m][he][i] [evid][cons][bein][the] [sect[her][asto][Rose] [rose[Plea[home[beco][Do] [y[slic][Greg[some[turn] [is]e[it][w[mora[has][The] [Mana[Asso][lobb[orga] [thou[from][iden][this] [kiss][pass][quie[Then] [cent[Bein][mind][both] [thin][stru[and][danc] [shin][cupb[cuck][task][an] [a[mann][the[stro][to][b] [corn][secu[in][t[and][and] [proc][you[will[a]se] [like[made[repr][Bell] [toge[dash][spok][modu] [that[hosp[beds][from] [blue[spar][his][Sni[snif] [bott[watc][was][surf] [imp[Geor][sorr][anyt] [your][as][t[barr][vari] [crav[seen][regu[hour] [and][As][up][t[bega[with] [But[how[Lene[mout] [grea[stru[livi[the] [ribs][disp[nati[and] [stil[like[to[lear][no] [p[coul[make[the[Vell] [hed][occu[plac][whic] [His][Rao[agai[hunt] [clea[of][t[beas][star] [stop[got[the[and][litt] [eigh][bear][Com][tong] [arse[also][new[requ[in] [w[sat[he][m][out[repl] [to]h][Oka[let[thin][we] [c][chal[grea[firs][1991] [stra[weap[ball[a]bl] [grad][gray[age[all[are] [in]l[path][way[] Hypermutable Transient Stabilization #0002 [look][wat[forg[for][they] [Whic][circ][begg[to][n] [allo][you[Unit[soun] [win­[Widn][minu[be][t] [mail[word][magi[It][w] [even][than][was][hadn][was] [enou[hand][anyt[It][w] [jour][to][B[clan][was] [musi[from][cons][of][s] [educ][rege[I]w[said] [one[it][t]As][bett[Samm] [Well[But[said][will] [them][a]co][ours][coas] [with][Then][nose[move] [hers][this][W[Pric] [fing[livi[esse[Veda] [watc][moth][igno][the] [subj[hear][plai[Derr] [dist[Lawr][rode[wond] [his][bedd][thin][to][a[of] [G[towa[expe[reap[are] [tomb[is][w[Paul[him] [the[proc][pass][them] [cost[200[Bol[said][you] [was[My[fami[the] [Tupm][Well[havi[butt] [All[Wink][face[with] [whol[imag[inte[page] [dipl[wake[War[Flem] [Derb[fort[favo][cont] [inte[kiss][move[bega] [reck][cows][goin][tha] [vehe[shri[vill[Volo] [over][boat[If][maa[his] [up[And][rumo][engi] [sell[for[went[with] [the[Cand][Defe[foll] [exce[expl[Godf][be][a] [been][dete[Arab[My] [s][a]li][Wink][Row[fire] [huge[Derr][floa[hawk] [look][ther][for[hono] [gen[jist[said][then] [the[his][hang]Giv[if][y] [rejo][Pick][back][ask] [arou[They[the[they] [youn][too[infl[The] [been][head][fold][enha] [the[seve[impr][yet[brus] [agai[unde[shaf][wet] [toes][nipp[mout[down] [bril[thre[room][spea] [afte[The[look][shou] [that[the[They[and][tits] [find][near][butt[butt] [repo][Bram][up][t[whic] [Musl[only[name[The] [ship[ship[long[to][d] [mome[perm][stre[Sam] [fort[save[extr][his][to] [h][kept[by][m][reck][I]w] [Kink][Avor][the[his][coll] [with][the[on[thig] [Angi[whit[piec][from] [been][nove[Sl[slee] [just[had][heed][time] Hypermutable Transient Stabilization #0003 [dear][and][and][suns][he][g] [Goo][said][you[I]v] [loos][Robe[want[behi] [Slow[seei[pass][even] [This][with][a]wa][all] [Ver][Like[supp[Laug] [for][stra[in][c][and][fast] [were[and]Red][inqu] [some[awfu[disc][fath] [and][your][has][posi[thre] [in]t]I]a[Sir[Stig] [in]w[You[star][incr][of] [y[beco][comp[know[simp] [secr][Musl[Iraq[begi] [agai[and][your]Wit[for] [and][said][be][o][batt] [mana[warf][impr][He][a] [stud][prog[majo][very] [stop[very[circ][in][m] [task][one[The[appl] [rece[sigh][up][o][Then] [and][agai[resu[pois] [hypo][appl[over][moun] [the[pre[nucl]Cer] [repl[gentMu][took] [draw[and][Gwen][comf] [love[how[woulY[Poin] [watc][Cric][vent[in] [that[come[to][h][We][m] [draw[foll[Wha[the] [have[port[When][came[on] [m][way[this][She[into] [of]t[mast[Such][that] [murd][be][b[dete[mise[of] [e[ever][for][ligh][a]sl] [shag[name[he][s][able] [man[Slow[the[surr] [cars][here[furt[ever] [repl[prov[The[forw[the] [the[reg[and][abou] [this][goin][and][jour] [Pic][the]You[Why[Cle] [fath][hone[alwa[grea] [upon][Bard][glan][lady] [him][ligh][and][and][the] [good][and][unst[blin] [mark][time[more[futu] [memo][livi[touc][terr] [Ther][us][b[Grig[Yego] [It[lot[said][woul[resp] [the[fell[shou[Adam] [forc][into][reac][hold] [Thr][said][No[arti] [how[Why[Savk][the[She] [the[Yet[she[bega[even] [As][thes][we][s][the[are] [face[ha[Pell[not] [whom][the[had][that]Cal] [Pick][Tom[barm][Geor] [man][in][a[besi[boy[an] [whos][had][the[orna[smal] [shor][at][h][the[your] [watc][anti[fini[they] [exis][nucl[were[Barb] [they[hump[legs][woul] [glas][fell[regi[veri] [not[And][expe[of][o][in][a] [make[slow[cat[unsu[I] [ra[sti[pers][know[that] [need][didn][time[idle] [brav[pois][unde[of][t] [poin][regr][bein][to][s] [ran][Lene[her][upse[Wel] []th][And][shou[Of] [said][Tha[he][h][enth] [Cos][priv[indi[repl] [fact[like[with][The] [wron][obst[else[beli] [Kin][co][we][c]Not[my] [l[Sawy[stre[conf][powe] [para[mean][four]Lyn] [rath][lodg[even][Lond][re] [r][inte[Bhar][Maha[spec] [by]V[by][r][to][d][lost] [cont[reli[Bard][wido] [was][with][this][Yo][fan] [some[comp[coul[When] [Ful[defe[that[aggr] [elim][Job[amaz[the[mano] [stew[sham][stud]Why] [Lowt[Dods][with][ques][to] [b[obse[bomb[Ther][bomb] august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:04:48 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ghazal must have been a formula originally for attaining a higher state of consciousness. Why and how they worked out the precise pattern of repetition is beyond me, but there must have been some sense of the mathematics focusing the mind into a specific fist that would punch through the walls of of of... hoonk, for lack of a better word. Does Ali talk of this? I started this discussion of ghazals, but all ghazals should be sent to the list. The competition, and discussion of ghazals, will continue until July 24th at midnight, after which there will be no more discussion of ghazals, and no reception of them. -- Kirby Olson > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:16:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear kirby, there is a new ghazal department in the muse apprentice guild headed by a writer who has been working in this form for a decade - if you know other ghazal writers they are invited to submit their ghazals for the fall issue of the m.a.g. sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Ghazal The ghazal must have been a formula originally for attaining a higher state of consciousness. Why and how they worked out the precise pattern of repetition is beyond me, but there must have been some sense of the mathematics focusing the mind into a specific fist that would punch through the walls of of of... hoonk, for lack of a better word. Does Ali talk of this? I started this discussion of ghazals, but all ghazals should be sent to the list. The competition, and discussion of ghazals, will continue until July 24th at midnight, after which there will be no more discussion of ghazals, and no reception of them. -- Kirby Olson > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:40:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: LOL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII LOL LOL lots of love to you and you and you! and wonderful day for you and you and you! LOL laugh out loud at you and you and you! laugh and laugh out loud! They say you can't trace what you feel When you're faced with little signs But I think they're like the eel Slithering among the mines Avoiding each with fin and tooth >From head to toe to grave It's like the butterfly, forsooth, Dancing in a rave. But seriously, folks, do these acronyms really work? More and more our children are faced with 160 character screens and no place to spell out more than abbreviated feelings. Which as Freud says, sticks emotion to the symbol. The result is the atrophy of emotions, a neutral or darkly plain face, perhaps with sunglasses, staring out uncomprehending the world. What to do? Remember, the greater the screen size, the more delicate the emotion: The whole world is our screen! Our emotions fill the skies! Let us at least use L1 for LOL and L2 for LOL and we will be able, once and for all, to differentiate between love and laughter! ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:45:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Fwd: Hold The Space Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Begin forwarded message: > + > Hold the Space: > A Ritual Performance of an arriving guard of angels, thusly coming to > greet > Written and performed by Akilah Oliver > In collaboration with Latasha N. Diggs (voice, electronics), Fanny > Ferreira (voice), Bethany Spiers (guitar). > > + July 26, 2003 9:00pm > Art Land Bar > 609 Grand Street, Williamsburg > (L train, Lorimer or Grand stops) > Free Admission > Information: > 718-599-9706 > urbanthemeaki@yahoo.com > > + July 30, 2003 7:00pm > Bluestockings Bookstore > 172 Allen Street (1st & Houston) > Free Admission > Information: > 212-777-6028 > urbanthemeaki@yahoo.com > To Hold the Space is to maintain power. > > An arriving guard of angels, thusly coming to greet is a collaborative > performance between musicians and poets to celebrate life and to name > & honor our dead - our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, > sisters, friends - all those who have departed. > > To name our dead in public space is to ritualize death, give voice to > suffering, and politicize the private act of mourning. Come hold the > space and create ritual in the midst of struggle. > > An arriving guard of angels, thusly coming to greet celebrates the > sacred power of transition, & calls out resistance to the needless > deaths and murders of those who have fallen, who are causalities, not > collateral, of war, neglect, an inadequate health care system, racism, > homophobia, et al. > > Everyone is welcome to come hold the space. Come witness an arriving > guard of angels, thusly coming to greet. Bring items for altar > building to aid the performance. > > About the Performers > Akilah Oliver is a teacher, performer and writer. Oliver is author of > experimental poetry, "flesh memory: the she said dialogues" and is > adjunct faculty at the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics. > > Latasha N. Diggs is a widely published writer & vocalist. Diggs, a > 2002 Harvest Works Digital Media Arts Center Artist-in-Residence, is > lead electronic vocalist for the jam band, Yohimb Brothers. Diggs is > the producer and writer of the experimental sound project, Television. > > Fanny Ferreira is an experimental fiction writer and poet. Ferreira is > a visual artist who works with print and digital photography as a > storytelling medium. > > Bethany Spiers is a student at Pratt University where she studies > poetry. Spiers, a musician with Eyeball Records, has a new CD > scheduled for release next year. > > + > This performance is inspired by our fallen brother, Oluchi Nwadi > McDonald, age 20, who died untreated in a Los Angeles hospital on > March 13, 2003. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:47:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just returned home from the Idyllwild Arts Poetry Festival. I had a ghazal workshop with Richard Garcia...So expect a few ghazals from me. I really like the form, and have worked in it a bit. Best, Ter > dear kirby, > > there is a new ghazal department in the muse apprentice guild headed by > a writer who has been working in this form for a decade - if you know > other ghazal writers they are invited to submit their ghazals for the > fall issue of the m.a.g. > > sincerely, > august highland > > muse apprentice guild > --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" > www.muse-apprentice-guild.com > > culture animal > --"following in the footsteps of tradition" > www.cultureanimal.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirby Olson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 3:04 PM > Subject: Re: Ghazal > > > The ghazal must have been a formula originally for attaining a higher > state of consciousness. Why and how they worked out the precise pattern > of repetition is beyond me, but there must have been some sense of the > mathematics focusing the mind into a specific fist that would punch > through the walls of of of... hoonk, for lack of a better word. > > Does Ali talk of this? > > I started this discussion of ghazals, but all ghazals should be sent to > the list. The competition, and discussion of ghazals, will continue > until July 24th at midnight, after which there will be no more > discussion of ghazals, and no reception of them. > > -- Kirby Olson > > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:59:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Garcia said that per Agha Shahid Ali, the rhyme comes in the second line just before the repeating prepositional phrase. Ter > I think the way Agha Shahid Ali was teaching the form > in English, the ghazal couplets *end* with the same > word, and repeat an *internal* rhyme somewhere in the > line. > > Obviously this is easier to do in Urdu and Arabic in > which many of the words rhyme easier; in Urdu > particularly (I don't know if this is true in Arabic > or Persian) the form takes on specific unity: the last > word of a syntactic sentence is generally the verb > > so I guess one version of an English ghazal that would > respect the *intensity* of the Urdu ghazal might be > one that used the same *verb* in each couplet and not > the same final line. > > > --- Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > I just realized one thing. I think all the gazels > > sent to the list repeat the > > last word of the second line. In the gazel form the > > ends of second lines > > rhyme with each other, not repeat the last word. Why > > is that? > > Murat > > > > > > In a message dated 7/18/03 4:52:37 PM, > > Clmndl@AOL.COM writes: > > > > >I lost the backchannel address of the person to > > send ghazals to - anyhow, > > >why > > >not brave another here? > > > > > >Ghazal Improvisation > > > > > >My expositional brain working to grasp at thought > > >develops eggshell cracks, hence, leakage of > > thought. > > > > > >So many spins of the carousel, riding uncountable > > rounds, > > >so dizzy I don't catch the brass ring of a single > > thought. > > > > > >As the dock creaks your figure sways. I gaze > > >nonplussed at the foamy tracks of your thought. > > > > > >Sky a gray canvas. Call a breeze to daub fantasy > > clouds > > >where we stand among wild poppies, lost in thought. > > > > > >Whatever I say whatever I do fails of any success: > > >Oh Charlotte, self-detractor of pride in poetic > > thought! > > > > > >Charlotte Mandel > > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:01:58 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Native Books sale for non-Hawai`i customers Comments: cc: coxr@hawaii.edu, sschultz@hawaii.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Native Books in Honolulu is an invaluable resource for those of us who live in Hawai`i. They've long supported Tinfish Press's endeavors, and sell our products overseas (over many seas...). They're consolidating stores and having a sale. The sale (20% of all books in stock) is available to mainland supporters from September 15 and the 30th. Phone 808-845-8949 Fax 808-841-1819 nativebk@lava.net Or contact my friend there, Ron Cox, at coxr@hawaii.edu aloha, Susan M. Schultz PS Be sure to send your orders to me or to Native Books for the NEW LINH DINH BOOK! http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/tinfish ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:30:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Waking and Sleeping and Thinking Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waking and sleeping and thinking And open and closed and awake And beside and inside and outside And winter and summer and fall And eating and talking and laughing And having and tasting and talking And people and walking and walkways And humming and singing and song And open and closed and open And many and others and few And wonders and angels and leaving And touching and dreaming and you Peace, Brennen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:08:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: If a Man Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If a Man Visits the street Along which his Childhood home stands If he, standing still, Looks hard at where He once grew If his mother is gone If his father is gone If his children are grown If a man is All the songs and seasons Gone past him Let him stand Just let him stand And let him be a man Peace, Brennen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:21:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: emma goldman woulda hated anthologies In-Reply-To: <009101c34e36$e4416f80$dc3a4b43@ibmfb1014a> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed <> aren't anthologies instruments entirely inefficient toward redressing literary disappearances and deficiencies, and they multiply rather than indemnify the losses? aren't anthologies are inherently rapacious and unjust? Where is the Emma Goldman of Literature? -- who iwll help us stand against them? The ideology of anthologies is such that anthologies must be stood against --and that we must stand against htem with a better anthology -- can't you see the vicious bicycle?? We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the anthologico-critical complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will continue to persist. -- The anthology by its nature breeds contention. Critical dispute is the health of the anthology. If an anthology coudl, it would bomb other books. War is the health of the anthology, especially anthologies that bomb other anthologies. At 04:46 PM 7/19/2003 -0400, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: >There is an anthology of New American Poets edited by Lisa Jarnot and (I >think) Todd Colby which might fit the bill. > >Millie >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe Ahearn" >To: >Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 4:10 PM >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > > > Check out the journal 26, published sort of by people in or associated >with the > > MFA program at St Mary's. Lots of interesting young poets. Ditto Skanky >Possum, > > published out of good old Austin, TX. > > > > jra > > > > > > At 12:54 PM 7/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > >I know but those of us in this catagory are not represented--- if I love > > >Charles Bernstein's work and it is seminal for me but where are new avant > > >garde > > > >poets?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? >? > > >??????????????????????????????????? > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: UB Poetics discussion group > > >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino > > >> Stroffolino > > >> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:55 AM > > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > >> > > >> > > >> oh gosh, > > >> there's gotta be something better.... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------- > > >> >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" > > >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > >> >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM > > >> > > > >> > > >> > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the > > >> o-blek double > > >> > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: "Haas Bianchi" > > >> > To: > > >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM > > >> > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who > > >> are not baby > > >> >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of > > >> >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > > >> >> > > >> >> Ray > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > >> >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > > >> >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM > > >> >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> >> > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Now we w > > >> >> > nt you (being > > >> >> > foreigner) to be fronted > > >> >> > s one of his next of > > >> >> > kin > > >> >> > nd forw > > >> >> > rd Your > > >> >> > ccount > > >> >> > nd other relev > > >> >> > nt documents to be > > >> >> > dvised to > > >> >> > you by us to > > >> >> > ttest to the Cl > > >> >> > im. We will use our positions to get > > >> >> > ll > > >> >> > intern > > >> >> > l document > > >> >> > tions to b > > >> >> > ck up the cl > > >> >> > ims .The whole procedures will > > >> >> > l > > >> >> > st only ten working d > > >> >> > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without > > >> >> > tr > > >> >> > ce even in future. Your response is only wh > > >> >> > t we > > >> >> > re w > > >> >> > iting for > > >> >> > s we > > >> >> > h > > >> >> > ve > > >> >> > rr > > >> >> > nged > > >> >> > ll necess > > >> >> > ry things As soon > > >> >> > s this mess > > >> >> > ge comes to you > > >> >> > kindly get b > > >> >> > ck to me indic > > >> >> > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you > > >> >> > with the whole procedures to ensure th > > >> >> > t the de > > >> >> > l is successfully > > >> >> > Concluded > > >> >> > > > >> >> > ijnek. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > "f" > > >> >> > 1 > > >> >> > BABEL=of > > >> >> > DIGITAL_m > > >> >> > ss > > >> >> > DIME > > >> >> > DNA > > >> >> > I > > >> >> > I > > >> >> > LIM > > >> >> > LOAD > > >> >> > X > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > bsent=of=embryo > > >> >> > > > >> >> > ll > > >> >> > > > >> >> > lso > > >> >> > > > >> >> > ltern > > >> >> > ting > > >> >> > > > >> >> > n > > >> >> > > > >> >> > n > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nd > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nd > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nd > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nd > > >> >> > SIDA > > >> >> > nt > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nt > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nt > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nt > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nts > > >> >> > > > >> >> > poc > > >> >> > lypse > > >> >> > > > >> >> > poptosis > > >> >> > > > >> >> > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds > > >> blue body body > > >> >> > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver > > >> c d ver c d > > >> >> > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city > > >> clone clone > > >> >> > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre > > >> te current > > >> >> > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the >embryo > > >> >> > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities >fiber > > >> > flesh > > >> >> > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down > > >> he ven hell > > >> >> > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is > > >> joke junkie l > > >> > pse > > >> >> > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m > > >> >> > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of > > >> of of of of > > >> > of > > >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of > > >> of of of of > > >> > of > > >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or > > >> org n org n > > >> >> > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent > > >> >> > > > >> >> > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp > > >> ce spine str > > >> >> > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th > > >> t th t th t > > >> >> > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the > > >> the the the > > >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > > >> the the the > > >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the > > >> the the the > > >> >> > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to > > >> to to to to > > >> > to? > > >> >> > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v >gin > > >> >> > > > >> >> > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye >r > > >> > zero > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > irot > > >> >> > ris. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > AIDS > > >> >> > Kenji Sir > > >> >> > tori > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v > > >> >> > gin > > >> >> > of the br > > >> >> > in of the > > >> >> > nt of the > > >> >> > he > > >> >> > ven th > > >> >> > t the mirror im > > >> >> > ge of ch > > >> >> > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which > > >> >> > > > >> >> > m > > >> >> > sk d > > >> >> > nces=to the urb > > >> >> > n m > > >> >> > nhole of f/0 of the c > > >> >> > d > > >> >> > ver th > > >> >> > t blindfolds the > > >> >> > sun of > > >> >> > chromosome to genes s > > >> >> > distic vision of the lonely cyber se > > >> >> > son of > > >> >> > the pl > > >> >> > cent > > >> >> > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be > > >> >> > ts the vein th > > >> >> > t turned > > >> >> > p > > >> >> > le > > >> >> > nt of null=of=the drug org > > >> >> > n w > > >> >> > s being conducted perceive the se > > >> >> > son > > >> >> > of the l > > >> >> > tency of outer sp > > >> >> > ce to the br > > >> >> > in of the sun th > > >> >> > t DNA of the > > >> >> > chopped me > > >> >> > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of > > >> >> > > > >> >> > c > > >> >> > d > > >> >> > ver! cre > > >> >> > te the l > > >> >> > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky > > >> >> > spine of the junkie c > > >> >> > d > > >> >> > ver to the body fiber of the > > >> >> > poc > > >> >> > lypse th > > >> >> > t embryo > > >> >> > become > > >> >> > w > > >> >> > re of the future tense of the sun th > > >> >> > t scr > > >> >> > ps the body org > > >> >> > n of > > >> >> > the city to the m > > >> >> > sochistic > > >> >> > ltern > > >> >> > ting current of the > > >> >> > nts th > > >> >> > t is > > >> >> > tr > > >> >> > nsmitted > > >> >> > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th > > >> >> > t bec > > >> >> > me > > >> >> > upside-down! f > > >> >> > t > > >> >> > lities of horizon loops embryo of l > > >> >> > st br > > >> >> > in to world of 1 > > >> >> > gr > > >> >> > m of joke evoke to? the e > > >> >> > rth=the emotion > > >> >> > l p > > >> >> > rticle of "f" th > > >> >> > t w > > >> >> > s > > >> >> > c > > >> >> > ught by the hell of > > >> >> > cell to the LIM br > > >> >> > in system of the > > >> >> > nt th > > >> >> > t focuses > > >> >> > topologic soul > > >> >> > nd others of the e > > >> >> > rth who go str > > >> >> > ight the v > > >> >> > in sol > > >> >> > r system > > >> >> > of clone-tok > > >> >> > ge th > > >> >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp > > >> >> > ce where > > >> >> > I gr > > >> >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m > > >> >> > ss of flesh of > > >> >> > c > > >> >> > d > > >> >> > ver > > >> >> > nd > > >> >> > come > > >> >> > nd > > >> >> > lso > > >> >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th > > >> >> > t becomes unknown tow > > >> >> > rd the > > >> >> > coordin > > >> >> > tes in > > >> >> > ll of the l > > >> >> > pse of memory or th > > >> >> > t control the br > > >> >> > in of > > >> >> > n > > >> >> > > > >> >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f > > >> >> > t > > >> >> > lities of the light ye > > >> >> > r of > > >> >> > n > > >> >> > embryo on the other side of this > > >> >> > poptosis sun-- > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > __ > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________ > > _________ > > Joe Ahearn > > joeah@mail.airmail.net > > Calamus Publication Services: www.calamuspubs.com > > VEER magazine: www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:47:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: emma goldman woulda hated anthologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, let's have the hegemony of gen x and gen y supercede the hegemony of the baby boomers. And, may the baby boomers who were passed up, or by, join the gen xers and yers in their fight (gen xers and yers will never win because boomers had more babies than xers and yers will ever have, like the gods are greater) The new avantgarde? What about it? If it's new and avantgarde it can't be avantgarde (avantgarde is not iterative, it's only been made repetitious) The post-modern actually means pre-historic as Olson said piece of advice: don't believe what the boomers feed you about the avantgarde, there is none, we are merely in an age of consolidation (read Virgil Thompson on this) like Spicer said simply be sceptical like Pound, don't trust what is written up what is called PR and spin these days so simply, why would you even want to be in an anthology and what difference does it make to you anyways? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:29:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's my attempt at a ghazal as described how to write in this list serve, more or less: why, my Love, do bees suck the peach in holes beetles dug to make a breach and ants in foraminiferal delight hasten to feast between rims of the cratered peach when peach trees are not seen for miles around then one alone finds one alone makes love beyond reason's bound that it is beyond any one's love's reach to find like the moth the penumbra of light it breaches then round it winds or a dog to a bitch in heat it leeches doesn't mind to hearken to a pheromonic chemical bark the beetle flies to the peach's meat it breaches like a car caroming to a screeching halt to one in park ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:43:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Read Ali's work. He collected material to present the ghazal as it is traditionally known. Terrie > Here's my attempt at a ghazal as described how to write in this list serve, > more or less: > > why, my Love, do bees suck the peach > in holes beetles dug to make a breach > > and ants in foraminiferal delight hasten to feast > between rims of the cratered peach > > when peach trees are not seen for miles around > then one alone finds one alone makes love beyond reason's bound > > that it is beyond any one's love's reach to find > like the moth the penumbra of light it breaches then round it winds > > or a dog to a bitch in heat it leeches doesn't mind > to hearken to a pheromonic chemical bark > > the beetle flies to the peach's meat it breaches > like a car caroming to a screeching halt to one in park ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:21:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Attn: Readers of Dorothy Trujillo Lusk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Poetryland: If there are any captive readers of the work of Dorothy Trujillo Lusk whom I have not otherwise already spoken to about an upcoming project please drop me a backchannel. I have some collectibles to pass along to fan club members. Aaron Vidaver. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:17:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City issue 8, now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward -------------- Boog City issue 8, now available Featuring: Poetry on 1977/1978 edited by Arielle Greenberg, with work from: Melissa Anderson Liz Brown Maile Chapman Sean Cole C.S. Giscombe Christopher Kennedy Sarah Manguso Chelsey Minnis Edwin Torres and an editorial from Arielle cool non-themed work: =E2=80=A2 a Nick Piombino poem =E2=80=A2 Jane Sprague reviews Mariana Ruiz Firmat=E2=80=99s new chapbook =E2=80=A2 Nancy Seewald reviews two East Village restaurants =E2=80=A2 Greg Fuchs=E2=80=99s column returns with his letter from the Presi= dent =E2=80=A2 Brenda Iijima art =E2=80=A2 a Greg Fuchs photo =E2=80=A2 and an editorial and essay on Elvis Costello by yours truly AND The rebirth of the NYC Poetry Calendar, brought to you by the Bowery Poetry Club and the Poetz Group Available by mail order for $3 ppd. Send check or money order payable to: Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 Or for free throughout the following NYC and Williamsburg locations: East Village Acme Underground =E2=80=A2 Alt.coffee =E2=80=A2 Angelika Film Center and Caf= e =E2=80=A2 Bluestockin gs =E2=80=A2 Bowery Poetry Club =E2=80=A2 Cafe Pick Me Up =E2=80=A2 CB=E2= =80=99s 313 Gallery =E2=80=A2 Cedar Tavern=20 =E2=80=A2 Life Cafe =E2=80=A2 Mission Cafe =E2=80=A2 The Pink Pony =E2=80= =A2 Religious Sex =E2=80=A2 See Hear =E2=80=A2=20 Shakespeare & Co. =E2=80=A2 St. Mark=E2=80=99s Books =E2=80=A2 Tonic =E2=80= =A2 Tower Video Non East Village ACA Galleries =E2=80=A2 Here =E2=80=A2 Hotel Chelsea =E2=80=A2 Poets House=20= =E2=80=A2 Revolution Books Williamsburg Earwax =E2=80=A2 L Cafe =E2=80=A2 L Cafe To Go =E2=80=A2 Spoonbill & Sugarto= wn =E2=80=A2 Supercore Cafe And coming soon to: NYC Anthology Film Archives =E2=80=A2 CBGB=E2=80=99s =E2=80=A2 C-Note =E2=80=A2=20= Continental =E2=80=A2 Knitting Factory=20 =E2=80=A2 Lakeside Lounge =E2=80=A2 Living Room =E2=80=A2 Nuyorican Poets Ca= fe =E2=80=A2 WBAI =E2=80=A2 The Westbeth=20 Theater Williamsburg Clovis Press =E2=80=A2 Sideshow Gallery --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 04:18:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Explore Your First Sexual Experience, Describing All The Details You Can. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a new project by the Superheroes of Humanities. I created the SOF to represent another aspect of my work that is different from the work by the Worldwide Literati Mobilization Network and the International Belles Lettres Federation. This first project by the SOF is called Alphanumeric Labs. The solo member of AL is Howard Fineman who is a creator of visual poetry. The first series is entitled "Explore Your First Sexual Experience, Describing All The Details You Can." So far there are 38 pieces. Click on the box that is titled "EXPLORE" One modification still needs to be made. The current version of Alphanumeric Labs is designed for a 19-inch screen because of the size of the pieces. But the window is adjustable. Alphanumeric Labs is at www.alphanumericlabs.com Please see my new work. I am hoping that people will enjoy it. This is a new direction for me and I am eager to hear what people think of this new work. Thank you. sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 04:30:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Muse News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Muse News The first anniversary issue of the Muse Apprentice Guild appears on August 11. New liaisons are in Mexico (all regions), Brazil (all regions) and Africa (all regions) A special thank you to Stephen Vincent for his invaluable assistance in helping me to establish a m.a.g. liaison for Africa which I have been preoccupied with for a long time. Amy King is the new editor of the Gay-Lesbian-Queer Department Chelsea Rooney is the new editor of the Student Writing Department which presents poetry and fiction by students as young as 11-years old William Doreski is the newest Essayist - His first essay is on Robert Lowell sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:38:35 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: For Your Amusement Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heard today that Tolkien's first job was doing a two-year stint on the completion of the first edition of the OED, his speciality was words beginning in 'w', his work on 'waggle' and 'want' was much admired, but most of all his exhaustive investigations into the etymology of 'walrus' brought him accolades. Just thought you all might want to know that. All the Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:33:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: emma goldman woulda hated anthologies In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030719155423.012f1448@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Very clever Gabriel. Plus, they cost too much now that publishers see a perfect market for them in academia. They promote a certain canon, they indoctrinate literature and writing students, they make it too easy for instructors to simply "go by the book," as it were. It's a pain to have to make up a reader, and perhaps a certain violation of the writer's rights, but if a course is going to introduce a number of poets/writers to students (which is what anthologies do for the general public, aside from their shortcomings), the xeroxed reader works better and more personally reflects the aesthetics of the instructor. When I assign books, I assign ones written by single authors. On the other hand, I still have my Norton Anthologies of English Literature after all these years. And at Naropa, during Ginsberg's last summers, he would read from them and discuss poets who interested him, having made extensive preparations for his seemingly informal lectures. Best, Gloria Frym On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:21:48 -0500 Gabriel Gudding wrote: ><> > >aren't anthologies instruments entirely inefficient toward redressing >literary disappearances and deficiencies, and they multiply rather than >indemnify the losses? aren't anthologies are inherently rapacious and >unjust? Where is the Emma Goldman of Literature? -- who iwll help us stand >against them? The ideology of anthologies is such that anthologies must be >stood against --and that we must stand against htem with a better anthology >-- can't you see the vicious bicycle?? > >We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether >sought or unsought, by the anthologico-critical complex. The potential for >the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will continue to persist. >-- >The anthology by its nature breeds contention. Critical dispute is the >health of the anthology. If an anthology coudl, it would bomb other books. >War is the health of the anthology, especially anthologies that bomb other >anthologies. > > >At 04:46 PM 7/19/2003 -0400, Millie Niss on eathlink wrote: >>There is an anthology of New American Poets edited by Lisa Jarnot and (I >>think) Todd Colby which might fit the bill. >> >>Millie >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe Ahearn" >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 4:10 PM >>Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >> >> >>> Check out the journal 26, published sort of by people in or associated >>with the >>> MFA program at St Mary's. Lots of interesting young poets. Ditto Skanky >>Possum, >>> published out of good old Austin, TX. >>> >>> jra >>> >>> >>> At 12:54 PM 7/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>> >I know but those of us in this catagory are not represented--- if I love >>> >Charles Bernstein's work and it is seminal for me but where are new avant >>> >garde >>> >>>poets?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? >>? >>> >??????????????????????????????????? >>> > >>> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino >>> >> Stroffolino >>> >> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:55 AM >>> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >> Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> oh gosh, >>> >> there's gotta be something better.... >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ---------- >>> >> >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" >>> >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >> >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >>> >> >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_...the >>> >> o-blek double >>> >> > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> > From: "Haas Bianchi" >>> >> > To: >>> >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM >>> >> > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry by poets who >>> >> are not baby >>> >> >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search all the anthologies of >>> >> >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were "contemporary"in 1n 1960 >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Ray >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >>> >> >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> >> >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim >>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM >>> >> >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >> >> > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Now we w >>> >> >> > nt you (being >>> >> >> > foreigner) to be fronted >>> >> >> > s one of his next of >>> >> >> > kin >>> >> >> > nd forw >>> >> >> > rd Your >>> >> >> > ccount >>> >> >> > nd other relev >>> >> >> > nt documents to be >>> >> >> > dvised to >>> >> >> > you by us to >>> >> >> > ttest to the Cl >>> >> >> > im. We will use our positions to get >>> >> >> > ll >>> >> >> > intern >>> >> >> > l document >>> >> >> > tions to b >>> >> >> > ck up the cl >>> >> >> > ims .The whole procedures will >>> >> >> > l >>> >> >> > st only ten working d >>> >> >> > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully Without >>> >> >> > tr >>> >> >> > ce even in future. Your response is only wh >>> >> >> > t we >>> >> >> > re w >>> >> >> > iting for >>> >> >> > s we >>> >> >> > h >>> >> >> > ve >>> >> >> > rr >>> >> >> > nged >>> >> >> > ll necess >>> >> >> > ry things As soon >>> >> >> > s this mess >>> >> >> > ge comes to you >>> >> >> > kindly get b >>> >> >> > ck to me indic >>> >> >> > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you >>> >> >> > with the whole procedures to ensure th >>> >> >> > t the de >>> >> >> > l is successfully >>> >> >> > Concluded >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > ijnek. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > "f" >>> >> >> > 1 >>> >> >> > BABEL=of >>> >> >> > DIGITAL_m >>> >> >> > ss >>> >> >> > DIME >>> >> >> > DNA >>> >> >> > I >>> >> >> > I >>> >> >> > LIM >>> >> >> > LOAD >>> >> >> > X >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > bsent=of=embryo >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > ll >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > lso >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > ltern >>> >> >> > ting >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > n >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > n >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nd >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nd >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nd >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nd >>> >> >> > SIDA >>> >> >> > nt >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nt >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nt >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nt >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nts >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > poc >>> >> >> > lypse >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > poptosis >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > w re be ts bec me become become becomes being blindfolds >>> >> blue body body >>> >> >> > body br in br in br in br in br in buffoonery=of by c d ver >>> >> c d ver c d >>> >> >> > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped chromosome city >>> >> clone clone >>> >> >> > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control coordin tes cre >>> >> te current >>> >> >> > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives drug e rth e rth=the >>embryo >>> >> >> > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t lities f t lities >>fiber >>> >> > flesh >>> >> >> > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped grew=upside-down >>> >> he ven hell >>> >> >> > hell hope? horizon horizon im ge in intention into is is >>> >> joke junkie l >>> >> > pse >>> >> >> > l st l tency l ughter light lonely loops love=plug m nhole m sk m >>> >> >> > sochistic me t memory mirror mode murderous null=of=the of >>> >> of of of of >>> >> > of >>> >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of >>> >> of of of of >>> >> > of >>> >> >> > of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of on or >>> >> org n org n >>> >> >> > other others outer outer p le p rticle perceive pl cent >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > s distic scr ps se son se son side sky sol r soul sp ce sp >>> >> ce spine str >>> >> >> > ight sun sun sun sun-- system system tell tense th t th t th >>> >> t th t th t >>> >> >> > th t th t th t th t th t th t th t th t the the the the the >>> >> the the the >>> >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >>> >> the the the >>> >> >> > the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the >>> >> the the the >>> >> >> > the the the the the the there thinking this to to to to to >>> >> to to to to >>> >> > to? >>> >> >> > topologic tow rd tr nsmitted turned unknown upside-down! urb n v >>gin >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > v in vein vision w s w s where which who who with without world ye >>r >>> >> > zero >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > irot >>> >> >> > ris. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > AIDS >>> >> >> > Kenji Sir >>> >> >> > tori >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > cyber*embryo of buffoonery=of the v >>> >> >> > gin >>> >> >> > of the br >>> >> >> > in of the >>> >> >> > nt of the >>> >> >> > he >>> >> >> > ven th >>> >> >> > t the mirror im >>> >> >> > ge of ch >>> >> >> > os grew=upside-down of BABEL=of which >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > m >>> >> >> > sk d >>> >> >> > nces=to the urb >>> >> >> > n m >>> >> >> > nhole of f/0 of the c >>> >> >> > d >>> >> >> > ver th >>> >> >> > t blindfolds the >>> >> >> > sun of >>> >> >> > chromosome to genes s >>> >> >> > distic vision of the lonely cyber se >>> >> >> > son of >>> >> >> > the pl >>> >> >> > cent >>> >> >> > of the clone LOAD the embryo who be >>> >> >> > ts the vein th >>> >> >> > t turned >>> >> >> > p >>> >> >> > le >>> >> >> > nt of null=of=the drug org >>> >> >> > n w >>> >> >> > s being conducted perceive the se >>> >> >> > son >>> >> >> > of the l >>> >> >> > tency of outer sp >>> >> >> > ce to the br >>> >> >> > in of the sun th >>> >> >> > t DNA of the >>> >> >> > chopped me >>> >> >> > t of the horizon dives into the desire of the X foot of >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > c >>> >> >> > d >>> >> >> > ver! cre >>> >> >> > te the l >>> >> >> > ughter without the murderous intention of the blue sky >>> >> >> > spine of the junkie c >>> >> >> > d >>> >> >> > ver to the body fiber of the >>> >> >> > poc >>> >> >> > lypse th >>> >> >> > t embryo >>> >> >> > become >>> >> >> > w >>> >> >> > re of the future tense of the sun th >>> >> >> > t scr >>> >> >> > ps the body org >>> >> >> > n of >>> >> >> > the city to the m >>> >> >> > sochistic >>> >> >> > ltern >>> >> >> > ting current of the >>> >> >> > nts th >>> >> >> > t is >>> >> >> > tr >>> >> >> > nsmitted >>> >> >> > nd become zero to DIME of the hell of the cell th >>> >> >> > t bec >>> >> >> > me >>> >> >> > upside-down! f >>> >> >> > t >>> >> >> > lities of horizon loops embryo of l >>> >> >> > st br >>> >> >> > in to world of 1 >>> >> >> > gr >>> >> >> > m of joke evoke to? the e >>> >> >> > rth=the emotion >>> >> >> > l p >>> >> >> > rticle of "f" th >>> >> >> > t w >>> >> >> > s >>> >> >> > c >>> >> >> > ught by the hell of >>> >> >> > cell to the LIM br >>> >> >> > in system of the >>> >> >> > nt th >>> >> >> > t focuses >>> >> >> > topologic soul >>> >> >> > nd others of the e >>> >> >> > rth who go str >>> >> >> > ight the v >>> >> >> > in sol >>> >> >> > r system >>> >> >> > of clone-tok >>> >> >> > ge th >>> >> >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer sp >>> >> >> > ce where >>> >> >> > I gr >>> >> >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m >>> >> >> > ss of flesh of >>> >> >> > c >>> >> >> > d >>> >> >> > ver >>> >> >> > nd >>> >> >> > come >>> >> >> > nd >>> >> >> > lso >>> >> >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th >>> >> >> > t becomes unknown tow >>> >> >> > rd the >>> >> >> > coordin >>> >> >> > tes in >>> >> >> > ll of the l >>> >> >> > pse of memory or th >>> >> >> > t control the br >>> >> >> > in of >>> >> >> > n >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f >>> >> >> > t >>> >> >> > lities of the light ye >>> >> >> > r of >>> >> >> > n >>> >> >> > embryo on the other side of this >>> >> >> > poptosis sun-- >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > __ >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>____________________________________________________________________________ >>> _________ >>> Joe Ahearn >>> joeah@mail.airmail.net >>> Calamus Publication Services: www.calamuspubs.com >>> VEER magazine: www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:17:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Patterson...Providence... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thought of you yesterday when i was stuck behind a bus...which advertised..Btn/Providence..8.75...14.75 round trip...these are chinese jitneys and remarkably cheap...so should be seeing you in Soho now all the time.. Anyway..thot i'd share this..from a glitzy/psychedlic brouchure for a late 60's group...called the HAPPENINGS..."They (the boys) all come from Patterson, N.J, but for you more mature fellas n' gals it is NOT the Patterson exemplified by W.C. Williams in that naughty five-book poem...." Hope your new surroundings find you well... all the best Harry & Lori... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:18:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martha L Deed Subject: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My attempt. Hopefully it doesn't qualify for "the worst ghazal" category Kirby Olson originally suggested in case no one could write a good ghazal. Martha Deed Ghazal Rules of the game form a comfortable cage. Are those who don't play in or out of the cage? The fawn munching lilies looks into the house, watches people drink tea on display in their cage. Dozens of red trilliums grow deep in the woods. Each blooms safe from prey in its own metal cage. He who revolts against train and plane schedules rides locked to the highway in his own rolling cage. She climbs from the car on the run from her spouse, Gaunt, haunted, and amazed to be free from her cage. M writes her stories with passionate care. His raging dismay puts truth in a cage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:43:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martha L Deed Subject: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This should have stanza breaks between couplets. Last time, my browser ate them. This time, if they don't appear, put it in a cage. Martha Ghazal Rules of the game form a comfortable cage. Are those who don't play in or out of the cage? The fawn munching lilies looks into the house, watches people drink tea on display in their cage. Dozens of red trilliums grow deep in the woods. Each blooms safe from prey in its own metal cage. He who revolts against train and plane schedules rides locked to the highway in his own rolling cage. She climbs from the car on the run from her spouse, Gaunt, haunted, and amazed to be free from her cage. M writes her stories with passionate care. His raging dismay puts truth in a cage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:40:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Ex-tasis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ex-tasis "Why is it that one who is having sexual intercourse, and also a dying person, casts his eyes upwards, while a sleeper casts them downwards? It is because the heat going out in an upward direction makes the eyes turn in the direction in which it is itself traveling, whereas during sleep the heat collects in the lower part of the body and so inclines the eyes downwards? The eyes close because there is no moisture left in them." (Aristotle, Problems, IV, 1, trans. Forster.) "At Scotussae in Thessaly they say there is a little fountain from which flows water of such a kind that in a moment it heals wounds and bruises both of men and of beasts of burden; and if any one throws wood into it, without having quite broken it, but having merely split it, this unites, and is restored again to its original state." (Aristotle, On Marvellous Things Heard, 117, trans. Dowdall.) "The bird-fly of Florida, for similar reasons, prefers the vignonia. This is a creeping plant, which finds its way to the tops of the highest trees, and frequently covers the whole trunk. He builds his nest in one of its leaves, which he rolls into the form of a coronet; he finds his food in its red flowers, which resemble those of the fox-glove: he plunges his little body into them, which appears in the heart of the flower like an emerald set in coral; and he gets in sometimes so far, that he suffers himself to be surprised there and caught." (Williams, The Vegetable World.) "dictation n. pat-a-ssu-gi" (Underwood, English-Korean Dictionary.) "Since each step in the food chain involves a loss of energy, if one is interested in an end product such as fish it is obviously important to have a short food chain in order to utilize the maximum amount of energy in synthesizing the desired product." (Brock, Biology of Microorganisms.) "From all we have said, it becomes more and more clear that science is fundamentally a well-organized aggregate of ideas, a theoretical structure, and that the scientist is basically a thinker, a theorist, and only secondarily an observer. All that precedes this state of theoretical organization of phenomena is pre-scientific." (van Kaam, Existential Foundations of Psychology.) "Before refrigeration, when seafood might be kept a few days in a chilly basement, this phenomenon of glowing decay was observed and noted. Charles Dickens, in A Christmas Carol (1852), likens Marley's face in the knocker of Scrooge's door to a glowing lobster: 'Marley's face...had a dismal light about it, like a bad lobster in a dark cellar.' How may nonmicro- biologists have passed over that line unable to decipher what image Dickens had in mind?" (Dyer, A Field Guide to Bacteria.) "So much for worldly things, for the pleasures of vanity; I went into detail because they are very rare for me, who have a sensitive soul and an avaricious father, and because I have need of being disgusted with them in order to give myself up entirely to my love for Victorine and THE FAME; but that will come, I'm sure." (Stendahl, Private Diaries, trans. Sage.) "Your form is now ready to be wired, meaning that the user interface is in place." (Davis, Visual Basic for Windows.) "QueryUnLoad First event in the death sequence; gives the programmer a chance to put in code cancelling the unload." (Davis, Visual Basic for Windows.) __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:46:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Martha: I'm a novice, but as I understand them, I've made a few comments. 1. The title usually includes the object which the ghazal addresses 2. RG via Ali states that the repeating phrase "should be" a prepositional phrase that remains as consisten as possible. So, your prepositional phrase could be; "in the cage" 3. the internal rhyme is just before the prepositional phrase in the couplet's second line. It doesn't have to be a perfect rhyme. You could go for assonance, partial rhyme, etc. I see your rhyme scheme is with "play, prey, highway", etc. Rearrange in order to place it right before...(e.g., play in the cage; display in the cage, etc.) Hope that helps! Terrie This time, if they don't appear, put it in a cage. > Martha > Ghazal > Rules of the game form a comfortable cage. Are those who don't play in or out of the cage? > The fawn munching lilies looks into the house, > watches people drink tea on display in their cage. > Dozens of red trilliums grow deep in the woods. > Each blooms safe from prey in its own metal cage. > He who revolts against train and plane schedules > rides locked to the highway in his own rolling cage. > She climbs from the car on the run from her spouse, > Gaunt, haunted, and amazed to be free from her cage. > M writes her stories with passionate care. > His raging dismay puts truth in a cage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: antigone In-Reply-To: <000001c343ba$e3a53920$0100a8c0@bucephalus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable antigone this is weakness then? this lingering keep silent this ardor spent on ashes this will to power hopelessness and wrong starts talk like and you make me dead talk like alone as a scheme left nothing state by state summoned stood remembering on a railway of amazement - denying nothing I spin yesterdays infallible dogs questioning neither blindness or role ~ your mimickey forms columns outside my souls ~ assembled in tumultuous predicaments of: rough hands sinking victims superb idiots and all sorts of = dogs. ~ because like a hyena digging a hole on the other side of time or the burning fire of a dead tree ragged and solid a sizzle words a column to a series of points ~ dear film strip of the night, =09 this locus vandalizes has-mark and stills free in my shadows. = the dark=20 stands pitch, lost at the crossroads where a sinister umbrage stills in=20= pandemonium and on and on. yours, ~ dear one hundred dollar bill =09 you offer to buy me a floating spot by these city walls, so we = can=20 chase names on top of atoms. we=92ve been watching you, they say. you=20 say, defend your self. they say, imagine another home far from here,=20 not here. you say, they say, I said, alas I go a-gatewards home to end=20= up being kicked by legs at the end of many feet. ~ about my mother. the one i never had, = and /or a father liar and=20 theft. I never knew. who sold my heart that never was. everything said=20= about them is a misfortunate broken line, or a beast of burden with a =20= double negative, either and or both never happened. I am the soul=20 savior of a holocaust in single space innuendoes, where no one said to=20= just murmur. I think about the speaking parts. the voices that come to=20= me with the well oiled guns, in a patch work history captivated by the=20= motion of all things ~ spell me a moment, please. a moment to correspondent to open and=20 unknown geography. where somewhere all-time someone freezes to deaths=20= in a useless disaster, no longer able to occupying the prospect for a=20 vocation. so omit this package thick with a ground that grows cold. . I=20= am the beneath the hammer being chipped away. glued into blurring=20 moment corners. yet, I have become a fissure in a legal system=92s=20 freezer filled with a median. ~ nothing could say or hear neither and never more arguing in a void of living rock shirks an incessant fall to the exile from within proceeding like walls crawling with claws a calendar in stone =09= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:23:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To me it is striking that richard Garcia's explanation is in terms of English syntax. This is incomprehensible to me for several reasons. First, more than anything technical (rhymes, mid rhymes, etc.), the gazel form has to do with a speciic sensibility, that of Sufism, with its infinite variations -something which requires a perceptual stretch rather than metrical techniques. Different languages (and different poets) have variations on the form, the main idea being an sound obstinato underlying endless variations, a divine spiritual unity (essentially based on love) underlying all multiplicity. Innterestingly, recently the idea of gazel comes to the North american culture through India, a touch of new wave, Daniel ladinsky, maybe, Richard Garcia, etc. The central poet of the gazel form is Hafiz. Both Goethe and Emerson were heavily affected by his work, which basically has to do with "light," more than rhyme structure of couplets. Murat Murat In a message dated 7/19/03 9:00:35 PM, tlrelf@COX.NET writes: >Richard Garcia said that per Agha Shahid Ali, the rhyme comes in the second > >line just before the repeating prepositional phrase. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:30:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Ex-tasis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan, This is a passage worthy of Kent Johnson. Murat In a message dated 7/20/03 5:40:21 PM, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: >"Why is it that one who is having sexual intercourse, and also a dying >person, casts his eyes upwards, while a sleeper casts them downwards? It >is because the heat going out in an upward direction makes the eyes turn >in the direction in which it is itself traveling, whereas during sleep >the heat collects in the lower part of the body and so inclines the eyes >downwards? The eyes close because there is no moisture left in them." >(Aristotle, Problems, IV, 1, trans. Forster. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:25:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Bircumshaw writes: >I'll own up to the fact that I'm one of the contributors to >Fulcrum and am awed by the resources that are available in >the USA to literary mags in contrast to cash-strapped >Britain. That's an interesting way of putting it, David. We've published Fulcrum 2 off our Mastercard. Just back from vacation to discover amid piling bills that our checks have been bouncing while we were away. I am currently jobless, my wife works for $9 per hour, and our four year old doesn't get paid for going to daycare. Some resources. And then protracted silence on the part of our readers. Is anyone reading us out there, or are all those copies just sinking without trace into the literary quicksand? What do y'all think? Philip Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:17:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My first geezer.com poem is now available for $5.75 Gayle, Thanks for the call. Here is the text of the poem I want to sell: You said your first "nope" Today to me when your Mother asked if you wanted To talk to me on the phone And I was disappointed As I wanted to talk to you And Kobe Bryant cried on national TV Only to have his tears which did seem real Snatched out of his mouth by the media As they descended to add in some sensation for us to consume. At the same time your "nope" Quickened my heart as I knew you Were starting to come into your own Wonderful you, wonder what you could be? It will be a limited edition. Numbered, signed, handwritten with the marker my granddaughter, Alexis, used to mark up one of my walls. tom bell Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:48:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: God is Everywhere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII God is Everywhere "Abner. "And "Angel-Guards," "April "Away "Away "Baylor. "Be "Beautiful "Beautiful "Beautiful "Birdie "Birds "Blessing "Bright "Brightly "Carlsen. "Come "Come "Come "Come "Coming "Cradle "Cry "Duke "Echo "Fare "Fillmore. "Forth "Gather "Gentle "Golden "Good "Good "Good-Night "Gracefully "Gracefully "Hail "Hallelujah! "Hark! "Harvest "Home "Home "Hurrah "I "I "I "If "Jesus "Life's "Like "List "Live "Majestic "Make "May "Minstrels "Morning "Morning," "Music "Must "Night "Night "Now "Now "Now "O "O "Oh, "Oh, "Old "On "Our "Sailing," "See "Singing "So "Spirit "Spring "Spring "Stars "Summer "Summer "Summer "Sweet "Sweet "Thanks "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "The "There's "Trinity. "Twilight "Twilight "Up "Upward "Venite, "Vox "Welcome "Welcome "What "What "When "Where "Wind "Woodland "You (Psalm (Psalm (regarding 121), 24), 7S.," 7s.," Afton," Again," Again," Aloud, An Another," Anvil," Are Are Are Are Around," Autumn Away, Be Beaming," Bells," Bells," Bells," Bells," Boy Breeze," Bride," Bright C. C. Care! Changeful Childhood," Childhood," Closing," Come," Come," Comes," Coming Cuckoo," Darling!," Darling," Dashing," Days," Dear," Dell," Dilecti," Dispatch Do?," Domino," Down" Down," Dream," Early," Earth Eve Evening Evening Evening Everywhere," Exultemus Eyes" Fade?," Fading," Falls," Farewell," Farmer Farmer's Flag Flowers," Flowers," Flowers," Flowers?," Footsteps Forest Friends Gaily Glen," Gliding," Glory," Good," Grace," Great," Happy Hear," Here Here Here," Here," Him," Hollow Home Honored Hopes," How Humming," I Is Is Is Is Is Is Is Is Is Is Is It," Jovial Joy," Joyful Kind Lad," Land," Laugh," Lays," Leafy Liberty," Lift Light Light," Like Longer Look," Lord Lord Lord's" Lord, Lord," Lord," Lord," Love Lovely M.," M.," M.," Mad Many May Me, Me," Me," Me," Mellow Men Midnight Mine Moon Moonlight," Moonlight," Morning Morning," Music Music," My My My My My NameIf," New-Year," Night," Night," Night," No Noise," Not," Now O O'er One Part," Praise Praise Rain," Ransomed Reaping Rills," Roam Roses S. Say Sea," Shade," Shades Should Showers," Side Sing Singing," Singing," Sleigh-ride," Sleighbells," Something," Song" Song," Song," Song," Spare Spring Spring," Stay," Stealing," Street," Strength," Summer Summer Summer Summer," Sun," Sunbeams," Sunshine," Sweet Sweet Templar's Tender That Thee, Thou Thy Time Time Time," Tinkling To Unto Up Voice Voice," Voices," Want Waves We We Welcome," Well, Whispers," Wildwood," Will Will Will Will Wilt Winning Winter Winter With With With Would Ye You You're Zion Zion." a a a and and and for for for in in in in in including is is of of of of of of of of of of snowfall), the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:54:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Syndicated Cartoonist depicts Bush being Assassinated Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed check it: http://www.drudgereport.com/ __________________________________________________ Gabriel Gudding www.antiwar.com (probably the most useful, thorough, and frequently updated of the urls pertaining to US foreign policy -- also one of the most credible of the avowedly anti-war right-wing websites) http://www.truthout.org (stories exclusively from mainstream media -- for this reason, a very interesting website) http://www.commondreams.org/ (this compilation website is subtitled "breaking news and views for the progressive community") http://www.buzzflash.com/ (very earnest and sometimes annoying abstracts but generally the most sedulously updated website I frequent) http://www.legitgov.org/ (*very* annoying abstracts and profoundly left-bias to this website, but useful stories) http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en (a Russian website rumored to be maintained by Russian intelligence. During the major combat in Iraq, this webste provided reports based on US-UK military radio communications. Sometimes carries and duplicates journalist pieces from western sources. Also interesting in that it provides reader-feedback sections. This feedback is often very caustic in its criticisms of the US invasion of Iraq and of US policy toward Israel and its occupation of Palestine.) www.indymedia.org (Independent media source, cooperative. Broke the story, eg, with photographs, of how staged the toppling of the Saddam statue after the "liberation") http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (this policy website is run by the Project for the New American Century, a "neo-con" organization with strong political and business and policy ties to the Bush administration. If you want to know what the administration is thinking or where it's going, this is a good place to start.) www.onpower.org (a compendium of articles and bibliographic material about how US foreign market and military interests have been advanced by the advent and creation of national "crises" -- more of a thinktank website than a news source, but topical and germane) http://www.aljazeerah.info/ (an online English version of Al Jazeera, the news source out of Qatar, which has won several prestigious international awards for its journalism [eg, a recent "anti-censorship award" called the "Freedom of Expression Award" given by the London-based Index on Censorship]. Of itself it says, "Your Gateway to Understanding the world system, American Foreign Policy, and the Arab and Muslim Worlds ..." Very interesting source.) http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/index.htm (Associated Press breaking news. Some of these stories are later picked up by newspapers and are then altered by those newspapers. Sometimes it's interesting to note how newspapers alter the stories. For instance, just a few days ago the New York Times removed some statistics from an online story about how many US soldiers have been wounded in Iraq since the US invaded the country) --"That there are men in all countries who get their living by war, and by keeping up the quarrels of nations, is as shocking as it is true; but when those who are concerned in the government of a country, make it their study to sow discord, and cultivate prejudices between nations, it becomes the more unpardonable." -- Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", circa 1792 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:56:51 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: FULCRUMED In-Reply-To: <20030721000480.SM01172@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's what I think of Fulcrum: I have been an admirer of Philip's writing since I first googled him in 1999 or 2000 and came across a poem called "Bohemian Blues." Innovative yet appreciative of the fundamentals of poetry, with a sense of history in his diction yet able to choose words that are very today. And drama too. And a sort of selflessness in it. One poem revealed a poet who can "do it all," who is no one-trick pony. Philip's work is perhaps the epitome of creative synthesis. Philip's got so many influences on-board, from his linguistic/polyglottal abilities to his knowledge of history and philosophy. And so on, a man of letters in the old sense, but one who rushes towards the vanguard in the new sense. Sorry Philip, I'm fawning and you're perhaps a bit embarrassed. I found that sort of superhuman spread of knowledge, sensibility, ridiculousness, and adventure in his _Dusk Ragas_. And I've just acquired his new _Monkey Time_ which is a recent Verse Press Prize winner. I haven't yet read it (got it yesterday) but I expect a great deal from it.... But Fulcrum, yes, Fulcrum... Fulcrum issue 1 was a stupendous debut for a journal. Loaded with great essays and some phenomenal poems. But the current issue goes beyond stupendous. The issue explores the intersection between philosophy and poetry. Starts off with a blazing essay on poetic anarchism from the editors (Katia Kapovich and Philip). It's a yearly, and there's some engaging material in there to keep you busy until the next issue. As I leave for vacation it will travel with me along with Philip's new book (oh and _Wolf Tongue_, the new collected works of Barry MacSweeney from bloodaxe...had to order it from amazon.co.uk since it is apparently not distributed to the USA). An interview with Billy Collins shares space in an issue with an interview of Bernstein by Perloff. There are very charged cross-currents all over the issue. And Philip takes risks, all of them good ones I think. The work of some relatively unknown but very talented poetry from listmates Dave Bircumshaw, David Baratier (I hope David knows I am a fan of his Estrella's Prophecies series), and Francis Raven appears. Good going! And "Bad Food Day" from Steve Shoemaker is a fucked-up and disturbing hoot of a poem. And the poems from WN Herbert are astoundingly lush. I've only flipped through it and read a few pages here, a few pages there, and already I can say that this issue blows away issue 1. I'd say it blows away just about any print poetry pub out there. I think it merits comparisons to John Tranter's Jacket and outdoes Jacket in some significant ways (fortunately it isn't a competition and there's room for both pubs). Fulcrum is no mere experiment but instead the polished delivery of a swirl of so many influences. Philip and Katia I think try to "cover it all" and their editorial ambition pays off. (And that payoff best not be mastercard debt.) Michael Palmer has an essay which starts with nothing and ends with Pessoa's "Autopsychography" and leads me feeling justified in my own efforts and the efforts of a few others to explore the "fakeness" of the surfaces of poetry and the myths surrounding poets and their voices. BUY IT FOLKS! Believe you me, if you have to buy this issue out of some sense of charity, it is an act of charity that benefits *you*. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:25:48 -0400 From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics David Bircumshaw writes: >I'll own up to the fact that I'm one of the contributors to >Fulcrum and am awed by the resources that are available in >the USA to literary mags in contrast to cash-strapped >Britain. That's an interesting way of putting it, David. We've published Fulcrum 2 off our Mastercard. Just back from vacation to discover amid piling bills that our checks have been bouncing while we were away. I am currently jobless, my wife works for $9 per hour, and our four year old doesn't get paid for going to daycare. Some resources. And then protracted silence on the part of our readers. Is anyone reading us out there, or are all those copies just sinking without trace into the literary quicksand? What do y'all think? Philip Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:27:27 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Philip I do apologise, I assumed a publication on that scale had some kind of institutional support. Your achievement in producing is all the more remarkable in such circumstances, I am agog with admiration (and currently jobless meself, so I know how that feels and is) Deep Regards Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fulcrum Annual" To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:25 AM Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics David Bircumshaw writes: >I'll own up to the fact that I'm one of the contributors to >Fulcrum and am awed by the resources that are available in >the USA to literary mags in contrast to cash-strapped >Britain. That's an interesting way of putting it, David. We've published Fulcrum 2 off our Mastercard. Just back from vacation to discover amid piling bills that our checks have been bouncing while we were away. I am currently jobless, my wife works for $9 per hour, and our four year old doesn't get paid for going to daycare. Some resources. And then protracted silence on the part of our readers. Is anyone reading us out there, or are all those copies just sinking without trace into the literary quicksand? What do y'all think? Philip Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:55:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: audio+visual+text=literary environmentalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Literary Environmentalism www.alphanumericlabs.com august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:46:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am sorry to say it, but this is all nonsense. Murat In a message dated 7/20/03 6:47:14 PM, tlrelf@COX.NET writes: >1. The title usually includes the object which the ghazal addresses > >2. RG via Ali states that the repeating phrase "should be" a prepositional > >phrase that remains as consisten as possible. So, your prepositional phrase > >could be; "in the cage" > >3. the internal rhyme is just before the prepositional phrase in the > >couplet's second line. It doesn't have to be a perfect rhyme. You could >go > >for assonance, partial rhyme, etc. I see your rhyme scheme is with "play, > >prey, highway", etc. Rearrange in order to place it right before...(e.g., > >play in the cage; display in the cage, etc.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:55:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Peoples Victory Orchestra and Chorus Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I and two friends are looking everywhere for any information on The = People's Victory Orchestra... including discogography, line-ups, etc.=20 We've loved their records for years (I found my first one over 20 years = ago), but during all that time we've never run across anyone who really = knew anything definitive about them.=20 We've heard that they were musicians who were under contract and used = the P.V.O.C. guise to record their own stuff on the sly. We're not sure = we believe this, though: we suspect this is just a rumor based on = somebody's guess as to why they were so studiously anonymous. The other = rumor we've heard, which we find marginally more credible, is that they = were high school (and or grammar school) music teachers -- which could = partially account for the large number of musicians that pop up on their = records (after all, there's virtually an orchestra on the third): some = of the musicians could be their students. (Of course, rumor #2 could = simply be based on the fact that one of their records is called "The = School.") We've always assumed that the address on the labels was their own = address, and hence that they were from New York.... Any direction, assistance would be most appreciated. Thank you. Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:47:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: ghazal ghasel gazel In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030719150826.0422ff30@pop3.airmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Joe Ahearn wrote: > Check out the journal 26, published sort of by > people in or associated with the > MFA program at St Mary's. Lots of interesting young > poets. Ditto Skanky Possum, > published out of good old Austin, TX. > > jra > > > At 12:54 PM 7/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >I know but those of us in this catagory are not > represented--- if I love > >Charles Bernstein's work and it is seminal for me > but where are new avant > >garde > >poets??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > >??????????????????????????????????? > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: UB Poetics discussion group > >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > Chris Stroffolino > >> Stroffolino > >> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:55 AM > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >> > >> > >> oh gosh, > >> there's gotta be something better.... > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------- > >> >From: "Jerrold Shiroma [ Duration Press ]" > > >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> >Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >> >Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2003, 4:15 AM > >> > > >> > >> > Talisman House's _An Anthology of (New) > American Poets_...the > >> o-blek double > >> > issue _Writing from the New Coast_... > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Haas Bianchi" > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:33 PM > >> > Subject: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >> > > >> > > >> >> Does Anyone know of a good anthology of poetry > by poets who > >> are not baby > >> >> boomers but are gen x and gen y? As I search > all the anthologies of > >> >> "contemporary"poetry include poets who were > "contemporary"in 1n 1960 > >> >> > >> >> Ray > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > From: UB Poetics discussion group > >> >> > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On > Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > >> >> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:16 PM > >> >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> >> > Subject: mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > mod(Kenji Siratori AIDS) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Now we w > >> >> > nt you (being > >> >> > foreigner) to be fronted > >> >> > s one of his next of > >> >> > kin > >> >> > nd forw > >> >> > rd Your > >> >> > ccount > >> >> > nd other relev > >> >> > nt documents to be > >> >> > dvised to > >> >> > you by us to > >> >> > ttest to the Cl > >> >> > im. We will use our positions to get > >> >> > ll > >> >> > intern > >> >> > l document > >> >> > tions to b > >> >> > ck up the cl > >> >> > ims .The whole procedures will > >> >> > l > >> >> > st only ten working d > >> >> > ys to get the fund retrieved successfully > Without > >> >> > tr > >> >> > ce even in future. Your response is only wh > >> >> > t we > >> >> > re w > >> >> > iting for > >> >> > s we > >> >> > h > >> >> > ve > >> >> > rr > >> >> > nged > >> >> > ll necess > >> >> > ry things As soon > >> >> > s this mess > >> >> > ge comes to you > >> >> > kindly get b > >> >> > ck to me indic > >> >> > ting your interest ,Then I will furnish you > >> >> > with the whole procedures to ensure th > >> >> > t the de > >> >> > l is successfully > >> >> > Concluded > >> >> > > >> >> > ijnek. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > "f" > >> >> > 1 > >> >> > BABEL=of > >> >> > DIGITAL_m > >> >> > ss > >> >> > DIME > >> >> > DNA > >> >> > I > >> >> > I > >> >> > LIM > >> >> > LOAD > >> >> > X > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > bsent=of=embryo > >> >> > > >> >> > ll > >> >> > > >> >> > lso > >> >> > > >> >> > ltern > >> >> > ting > >> >> > > >> >> > n > >> >> > > >> >> > n > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > > >> >> > nd > >> >> > > SIDA > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nt > >> >> > > >> >> > nts > >> >> > > >> >> > poc > >> >> > lypse > >> >> > > >> >> > poptosis > >> >> > > >> >> > w re be ts bec me become become becomes > being blindfolds > >> blue body body > >> >> > body br in br in br in br in br in > buffoonery=of by c d ver > >> c d ver c d > >> >> > ver c d ver! c ught cell cell ch os chopped > chromosome city > >> clone clone > >> >> > clone-tok ge come conducted continue control > coordin tes cre > >> te current > >> >> > cyber cyber*embryo d nces=to desire dives > drug e rth e rth=the embryo > >> >> > embryo embryo embryo emotion l evoke f/0 f t > lities f t lities fiber > >> > flesh > >> >> > focuses foot future genes go gr m gr sped > grew=upside-down > >> he ven hell > >> >> > hell hope? 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the e > >> >> > rth=the emotion > >> >> > l p > >> >> > rticle of "f" th > >> >> > t w > >> >> > s > >> >> > c > >> >> > ught by the hell of > >> >> > cell to the LIM br > >> >> > in system of the > >> >> > nt th > >> >> > t focuses > >> >> > topologic soul > >> >> > nd others of the e > >> >> > rth who go str > >> >> > ight the v > >> >> > in sol > >> >> > r system > >> >> > of clone-tok > >> >> > ge th > >> >> > t clone of love=plug mode there is the outer > sp > >> >> > ce where > >> >> > I gr > >> >> > sped with the thinking of the DIGITAL_m > >> >> > ss of flesh of > >> >> > c > >> >> > d > >> >> > ver > >> >> > nd > >> >> > come > >> >> > nd > >> >> > lso > >> >> > bsent=of=embryo of body th > >> >> > t becomes unknown tow > >> >> > rd the > >> >> > coordin > >> >> > tes in > >> >> > ll of the l > >> >> > pse of memory or th > >> >> > t control the br > >> >> > in of > >> >> > n > >> >> > > >> >> > nt I hope? to continue to tell the f > >> >> > t > >> >> > lities of the light ye > >> >> > r of > >> >> > n > >> >> > embryo on the other side of this > >> >> > poptosis sun-- > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > __ > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > _________ > Joe Ahearn > joeah@mail.airmail.net > Calamus Publication Services: www.calamuspubs.com > VEER magazine: www.rancho-loco-press.com/veer ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:50:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: ghazal ghasel gazel gazelle In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030719150826.0422ff30@pop3.airmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The competition, and discussion of > ghazals, will continue > until July 24th at midnight, after which there will > be no more > discussion of ghazals, and no reception of them. listen the ghazal doesn't care about your deadlines, mortal. the ghazal is beyond time and space. the ghazal is what "is before you and what is behind you" of all the things that exist in the three worlds, that is the ghazal. and those things that do not exist in the three worlds, that too is the ghazal. the ghazal is not the sonnet that you can just follow a particular rhyme pattern to get. Garcia's interpretation of ghazal rules seem needlessly complicated and I think not necessary. Murat is right first, and Kirby is also right: the ghazal's real "form" is the mental form. Is about drunkenness and ecstasy. Ecstasy means: out of sense. To have union with the Beloved. Ie God. See "D ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:25:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: emma goldman woulda hated anthologies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks Gloria. In addition to the famous phrase from the radical writer Randolph Bourne who said war is the health of the state etc, I slightly altered some of Dwight D. Eisenhower's January 17th, 1961 farewell speech to the US nation for the below screed, as well as a favored aphorism from Thomas Jefferson -- and I did so because I feel, as do many, that political language,especially that language concerning national defense and debates regarding power and social influence, conforms with some ease and almost perfectly, frankly, with language sufficient for the discussing of anthologies (for reasons many have written about thoroughly already, the ideology of nationalism/nation/native and the generation etc etc). _________________________________________________ www.antiwar.com (probably the most useful, thorough, and frequently updated of the urls pertaining to US foreign policy -- also one of the most credible of the avowedly anti-war right-wing websites) http://www.truthout.org (stories exclusively from mainstream media -- for this reason, a very interesting website) http://www.commondreams.org/ (this compilation website is subtitled "breaking news and views for the progressive community") http://www.buzzflash.com/ (very earnest and sometimes annoying abstracts but generally the most sedulously updated website I frequent) http://www.legitgov.org/ (*very* annoying abstracts and profoundly left-bias to this website, but useful stories) http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en (a Russian website rumored to be maintained by Russian intelligence. During the major combat in Iraq, this webste provided reports based on US-UK military radio communications. Sometimes carries and duplicates journalist pieces from western sources. Also interesting in that it provides reader-feedback sections. This feedback is often very caustic in its criticisms of the US invasion of Iraq and of US policy toward Israel and its occupation of Palestine.) www.indymedia.org (Independent media source, cooperative. Broke the story, eg, with photographs, of how staged the toppling of the Saddam statue after the "liberation") http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (this policy website is run by the Project for the New American Century, a "neo-con" organization with strong political and business and policy ties to the Bush administration. If you want to know what the administration is thinking or where it's going, this is a good place to start.) www.onpower.org (a compendium of articles and bibliographic material about how US foreign market and military interests have been advanced by the advent and creation of national "crises" -- more of a thinktank website than a news source, but topical and germane) http://www.aljazeerah.info/ (an online English version of Al Jazeera, the news source out of Qatar, which has won several prestigious international awards for its journalism [eg, a recent "anti-censorship award" called the "Freedom of Expression Award" given by the London-based Index on Censorship]. Of itself it says, "Your Gateway to Understanding the world system, American Foreign Policy, and the Arab and Muslim Worlds ..." Very interesting source.) http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/index.htm (Associated Press breaking news. Some of these stories are later picked up by newspapers and are then altered by those newspapers. Sometimes it's interesting to note how newspapers alter the stories. For instance, just a few days ago the New York Times removed some statistics from an online story about how many US soldiers have been wounded in Iraq since the US invaded the country) --"That there are men in all countries who get their living by war, and by keeping up the quarrels of nations, is as shocking as it is true; but when those who are concerned in the government of a country, make it their study to sow discord, and cultivate prejudices between nations, it becomes the more unpardonable." -- Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", circa 1792 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:55:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** VIP-NEED BAND FOR BOOG/ELVIS C. SHOW ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Another day, another band dropping out, leaving us one short for our My Aim is Boog show, Wed. July 30, at CB's 313 Gallery in NYC. The show will feature 13 musical acts covering the first two Elvis Costello records--My Aim is True and This Years Model--in order, track by track, as well as readings from Sean Cole, Sarah Manguso, and Edwin Torres, and serve as the relaunch of our community newspaper, Boog City. We need a band, a solo artist, a poet who can carry a tune, an American Idol reject--ANYONE!! You can email me here or call me at (212) 842-BOOG (2664). THANKS!! david ---- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:01:50 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Dowd: Let's Blame Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Let's Blame Canada By MAUREEN DOWD They were wrong, of course. Soldiers should not go public in the middle of a conflict and trash-talk their superiors or ask for the resignation of the secretary of defense. But it was inevitable that their gripes would bubble to the surface. Many American troops in Iraq are exhausted, and perplexed about the scary new guerrilla war they're caught up in. And they have every right to be scared, because the coolly efficient Bush commanders have now been exposed as short-term tacticians who had no strategy for dealing with a war of liberation that morphed into a war of attrition. The Third Infantry Division, which spearheaded the drive to Baghdad and has been away from home the longest, has had its departure date yanked away twice. Last week, some soldiers from the Third in Falluja - a treacherous place where many Americans have been killed by guerrillas, including one on Friday - griped to the ABC News correspondent Jeffrey Kofman. One soldier said, "If Donald Rumsfeld was here, I'd ask him for his resignation." The complaints infuriated some in the Bush administration, and the new Tommy Franks, Gen. John Abizaid, suggested that field commanders might mete out "a verbal reprimand or something more stringent." Somebody at the White House decided not to wait. Matt Drudge, the conservative cybercolumnist, told Lloyd Grove, the Washington Post gossip columnist, that "someone from the White House communications shop" told him about the ABC story and also about a profile of the Canadian-born Mr. Kofman in The Advocate, a gay publication. Mr. Drudge quickly linked the two stories on his popular Web site, first headlining the Advocate piece, "ABC NEWS REPORTER WHO FILED TROOP COMPLAINTS STORY - OPENLY GAY CANADIAN." Eight minutes later, he amended the headline to read, "ABC NEWS REPORTER WHO FILED TROOP COMPLAINTS STORY IS CANADIAN," leaving readers to discover in the body of the story what the Bush provocateur apparently felt was Mr. Kofman's other vice. Now that the right wing's bête noire, Peter Jennings, has gotten his American citizenship, conservatives may have needed another ABC Canadian to kick around. And the Christian right is still smarting over the Supreme Court's telling police they could no longer storm gay bedrooms in search of sodomy. Scott McClellan, the new Bush press secretary, said that if Mr. Drudge's contention about his source was true, it would be "totally inappropriate." He added, "If anyone on my staff did it, they would no longer be working for me." He said he had no way to trace an anonymous source. But Bush loyalists regularly plant information they want known in the Drudge Report. Whoever dredged up the Advocate story was appealing to the baser nature of President Bush's base, seeking to discredit the ABC report by smearing the reporter for what he or she considers sins of private life (not straight) and passport (not American). Let's hope the fans of Ann (Have you no sense of decency?) Coulter aren't taking her revisionist view of McCarthyism too seriously and making character assassination fashionable again on the Potomac. What we are witnessing is how ugly it can get when control freaks start losing control. Beset by problems, the Bush team responds by attacking those who point out the problems. These linear, Manichaean managers are flailing in an ever-more-chaotic environment. They are spending $3.9 billion a month trying to keep the lid on a festering mess in Iraq, even as Afghanistan simmers. The more Bush officials try to explain how the president made the bogus uranium claim in his State of the Union address, despite the C.I.A. red flags and the State Department warning that it was "highly dubious," the more inexplicable it seems. The list of evils the administration has not unearthed keeps getting longer - Osama, Saddam, W.M.D., the anthrax terrorist - as the deficit gets bigger ($455 billion, going to $475 billion). After 9/11, this administration had everything going for it. Republicans ruled Congress. The president had enormously high approval ratings. Yet it overreached while trying to justify the reasons for going to war. Even when conservatives have all the marbles, they still act as if they're under siege. Now that they are under siege, it is no time for them to act as if they're losing their marbles. -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:40:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: emma goldman woulda hated anthologies In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit actually, was there ever a selected writings from _Mother Earth_ anthology? i.e., Goldman published a journal which contained poems, and it seems to me it was a very "who's in, who's out" affair, much more so than Margaret Sanger's press & journal(s), say Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:58:03 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: tnwk at the bookartbookshop In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable LLAW Press Release LLAW 9 by TNWK (cris cheek and Kirsten Lavers) July =AD Sept. 2003 LLAW is a two year project curated by Brigid Mc Leer and specially commissioned by Tanya Peixoto, for the outside wall of bookartbookshop in Hoxton,17 Pitfield Street, London N1. The project consists of invitations to a number of writers and artists to write or devise a text specifically for the exterior wall of the shop and i= n that text to address in some way, their own relationship to language, writing and this new context of public address or display. Over a two year period, from February 2002 to February 2004, 12 texts are being presented on bookartbookshop wall - one every two months. Each text i= s oriented to the proportions of an A4 sheet (portrait) and is then enlarged to double A0 size through a simple photocopying process. These sheets are then pasted onto the wall and as such they are open to degradation, interference and destruction - but they are also renewable. So the play of the wall and the (l)law is also invited. The law that might instruct that they be taken down, the law of the street, that might reclaim that space again as a graffiti artist=B9s tagging site and the internal law of the work that decrees that these texts are there and that they will be protected or replaced. Also, the =8Cllaw=B9 - inversely in the =8Cwall=B9 - is the law of language; its structure and authorities, its traditions, histories and pretensions. The title also raises the question of whether language is in fact a wall - a barrier, a boundary, a protection - a physical structure to be broken down. The first text was launched in Feb 2002 to coincide with the official opening of bookartbookshop and was by Jane Rendell, an architectural write= r and theorist based in London. Subsequent texts have been written by Gillian Wylde, Jennifer Winters, Debbie Booth, Caroline Bergvall and Sharon Kivland= . March 2003 saw the beginning of the second year of LLAW with texts by Redel= l Olsen and AS Bessa. Forthcoming texts later this year will be by Wes White and Peggy Phelan. In March this year, to celebrate this project and bring it to wider attention, Brigid Mc Leer and bookartbookshop organised an exhibition of al= l the LLAW texts thus far in The Foundry (a bar and exhibition space) along with an evening of readings, performances and showings by many of the participants of LLAW. We also produced a limited number of A1 posters of th= e texts produced, available for =A36 from bookartbookshop. If you would like further information on LLAW or any of the artists or writers who are contributing, please contact Brigid Mc Leer at mcleer.bridge@virgin.net or call bookartbookshop on 020 7608 1333 (apologies for cross-posting) for those who can't get there a jpeg of the current site is at www.tnwk.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:49:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephanie Young and I will be reading from our postcard poem=20 collaboration at the Oxygen Bar in San Francisco on Sunday, August 3rd=20 along with Cassie Lewis, Del Ray Cross, Catherine Meng, Tim Yu and=20 others in celebration of Caf=E9 Expresso's Postcard Book series=2E More=20 details soon! Many thanks to Cassie Lewis and Caf=E9 Expresso for this and=20 my forthcoming book with Stephanie! Patrick Durgin and I will be reading at 21 Grand on Sunday, August 10th at=20 7 p=2Em=2E, presented by Cynthia Sailers and the New Brutalists=2E You are invited to come and visit my weblog -fait accompli- at http:// nickpiombino=2Eblogspot=2Ecom/ Over 17,000 hits since May 24, 2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:20:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: ** PAIR OF YANKEE TIX FOR 2NITE ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I've again been victim of the last minute bagging, alas. I have two extra tix for tonight's 7:05 p.m. blue jays at yankee game. 2nd row in the bleachers, for my cost ($9.50 each). Brag to your friends and neighbors that you went to a ballgame with the only small press editor in the land who has named their press after a baseball player. Call me ASAP, 212-842-2664. thanks, david --------- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:46:07 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: gazelles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Kazim and Murat and others in the ghazal thread, Yes, I think this is all about love, but doesn't love have to take place in time and space? If we shrink the time limit then this brings the love up to a point. I insist therefore on the deadline, and feel that anyone who brings up ghazals after the deadline is a taboo-breaking kamikaze pilot against love and beauty. I want to talk about beauty again, and not just assert that it exists, but recover the enormous dialogue concerning it since Thomas Aquinas at least! Beauty as theophany. I'm quoting from the Harvard philosopher Elaine Scarry: "When I say that beauty has been banished, I do not mean that beautiful things have themselves been banished, for the humanities are made up of beautiful poems, stories, paintings, sketches, sculpture, film, essays, debates, and it is this that every day draws us to them. I mean something much more modest: that conversation about the beauty of these things has been banished, so that we coinhabit the space of these objects (even putting them inside us, learning them by heart, carrying one wedged at all times between the upper arm and the breast, placing as many as possible into our bookbags) yet speak about their beauty only in whispers" (p. 57, On Beauty and Being Just -- Princeton, 1999). There is an interview with Elaine Scarry at http://www.salon.com/books/feature/1999/11/09/scarry/ Sorry if I screwed up the link. I generally do. I liked her book, although it is not as good as Kant by any stretch it is an attempt to bring back the discussion of beauty. Another great book is the U. of Minnesota philosopher Marcia Eaton's Aesthetics and the Good Life, Fairleigh Dickinson 1990. Both defend beauty as the beginning of taking an interest in the real world, and they both claim that aesthetics is the mother of ethics. Eaton, of the two, is far and away the better philosopher of beauty. There has been a lot of talking about the justice and politics of the war of late on this poetry board, but almost never do we talk about aesthetics. A poem is not good because it is just. I thought decades back that women would avant-garde the discussion of beauty, but they turned to ethics. Historically women have been among the best to talk about beauty -- as far back as Sei Shonagon -- the things she says are still spot on a thousand years later. I am not sure why it is that many feminists have turned so strenuously against beauty. I have the feeling that some feminists like Andrea Dworkin don't even like flowers! The ghazal form is all about beauty, and shouldn't be a matter of strict rules. It has to bloom and freak in its own way. There are no rules that can make something beautiful. Beauty is a kind of aberration, something utterly new in the world, unprecedented. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:53:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE=C2=A0=3A_ghazal_ghasel_gazel_gazelle?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2hlbiBJIHdhcyB5b3VuZ2VyIGFuZCBkaWRuJ3Qga25vdyBhbnkgYmV0dGVyLCBJIHVzZWQgdG8g d3JpdGUgYW4gVXJkdSBwb2V0cnkgY29sdW1uIGZvciBhbiBJbmRpYW4gb25saW5lIHB1YmxpY2F0 aW9uIGNhbGxlZCBTdWxla2hhLiBQb3NzaWJseSBvZiBzb21lIHJlbW90ZSBpbnRlcmVzdCB0byBh IHNtYWxsIGhhbmRmdWwgb2YgbGlzdCBtZW1iZXJzLCBmb3Igd2hhdCBpdCdzIHdvcnRoLCB0aGUg c3R1ZmYgaXMgcHJlc2VydmVkIGF0DQoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuc3VsZWtoYS5jb20vbWVtYmVycGFn ZXMvcHJvZmlsZS5hc3A/c2hvcnRjdXQ9L3BoaWxpcF9uaWtvbGF5ZXYNCg0Kd2l0aCBsaW5rcyB0 byB0aGUgaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBhcnRpY2xlcy4gSSB0aGluayB0aGVyZSdzIGEgZ2hhemFsIG9yIHR3 byBpbiB0aGVyZSBzb21ld2hlcmUuDQoNClBoaWxpcA0KDQogDQoNCg== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:55:22 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: 2 Ottawa ghazals + 2 suggestions re: recent postings on such things, ive give you "two Ottawa ghazals i done (recently) wrote" - rob mclennan, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada ============ quick ghazal on the manx pub she steps a pint across unbroken line. the hockey game again, game six. named for the island, cat a clipped tail. david in his blue blue shirt becomes the sky. her kathleen edwards t-shirt is nearly new. =========== quick ghazal on bank & gloucester streets the immediate world exists at right angles the intersection where the bank, office towers, tim hortons in the throes of service -- public & private -- plastic picture tags on strings the rain puddles out to biblical proportions what cabs tear by plaster multiple suits =============== - 2 suggestions 1) an interview with Canadian poet Douglas Barbour about, among other things, the ghazal & his influences, such as Phyllis Webb & John Thompson, can be found at: http://www.jacketmagazine.com/18/c-barbour-iv.html 2) a note written by Canadian poet Andy Weaver on the ghazal can be found at: http://www.poetics.ca/weaver1.html there is also a ghazal of his own, with a note on it written by myself at: http://www.poetics.ca/weaver.html ================= -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:00:04 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: [m] Re: curling, the sport MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > You are probably all familiar with the strangely beautiful sport of curling, where you > glide an immense stone down a shuffle-board like sheet of ice, whlie your friends get busy > with brooms and try to guide the stone into place. > > > I dreamed that I saw a documentary the other night quite short about how in a small > > city to > > the north called Mosul there was a group of Iraqis who had taken up this > > sport called Curling. They wanted to do this during Hussein's regime, but > > were forbidden. Now they apparently had the opportunity to do this under > > the American occupation, and there had even been some American curlers who > > had flown in to help them get started, and they had donated those huge > > stones that glide down the icy shuffle-board like ramp. > > > > The main obstacle now was getting ice in a country that doesn't have enough > > potable water. I was certain that the brave and enterprising Iraqi curlers > > would surmount this obstacle and bring curling to new heights of glory, such > > that their trophies would line the Baghdad museum and lead to a renaissance > > of the sporting attitude. Some of the would-be curlers were women, and in the dream > > there > > was a controversy among the men whether this sporting attitude shouldn't be > > only for men, and they seemed to want to get the curling women out of their > > hair. > > > I think this war is actually about new kinds of beauty trying to be born all over the > world. The attack on the trade center struck me as a very old-fashioned aesthetic -- the > spectacular tragedy. But I feel that new kinds of comedy are for some reason being born > all over the world, and that curling is one of these newest forms. There are many who > will resist these new forms, and even attempt to slaughter those who practice them! New > kinds of beauty are on the way, and fariness and justice and equality will be subsets > rather than master-narratives or rulers of these new forms! > > -- Kirby Olson > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martha L Deed Subject: gazelle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The suggestion to explore Hafiz's ghazals is excellent. This URL contains eight translators' rendering of Hafiz's first ghazal. The range of tone, form, and meaning is fascinating, given that these are translations. Thanks to Kirby for starting this thread. I will, of course, abide by the deadline to cease discussing this topic. http://www.thesongsofhafiz.com/smith1.htm Martha ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:18:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: neil hennessy In-Reply-To: <20030721.163149.-708115.1.mldeed1@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" yo listniks: does anyone know how to contact neil hennessy and/or order the books of his that were advertized a few months ago or so? inquiring minds want to know. peace now --md -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:26:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: down heyday leave horses dance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed so bites stay by back window nightways, making lost like sleep with an open trigger... you stowed my smell, but the handful a' blood was mine, stolen from animals... around their wrists were death beads & I like your have-love, stranger so... I'll mention none other as dice below fingernails nor as coral dust hands for words, I thought up days with legs below - nightwalkers I called 'em, but the term is friendly-like & literal... to dust-love at blues breasts, at least... burial at sea & nowhere have dirt drink me I've thinks extraordinary that swim you, sea spinsters' witch odor, feet shed underwater _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:27:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: LEGIBLE BLOG Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Rosenthal, publisher of LEGIBLE BOOKS has begun a blog: http://legible.blogspot.com/ LEGIBLE writers can post freely to this blog, without censorship, = although they are encouraged to stick to literary matters. LEGIBLE = friends can post on literary topics. LEGIBLE readers can submit entries = via legible5roses@yahoo.com, which will select, edit, and post them. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:36:49 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: New Book On Writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In some ways I feel a bit odd making this post because the approach of the book I'm suggesting may be at odds with the poetics often found on this list. But for those who might be interested in a spiritual approach to writing, one of my teachers, the poet Peter Levitt, has a new book out: FINGERPAINTING ON THE MOON: WRITING AND CREATIVITY AS A PATH TO FREEDOM. He links writing with creativity as one of the most basic of human impulses and activities. A practicing Buddhist, Peter explores many religious, mystical and spiritual sources as inspiration and guide for creativity. He also offers practical techniques for connecting to that part of any of us where creative inspiration may be found. For those who have found use in books by Natalie Goldberg and Dorothea Brande, you'll get a lot from Peter's book, too. Find it at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609610481/welcometoholl-20 or local bookstores. Ian Wilson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:35:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: gazelles Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Having reread Agha Shahid Ali's piece in An Exaltation of Forms, I offer the following: GHAZAL AT FIRST SIGHT Whenever the couple thought to commence they wondered whether they ought to commence. Consider them angels and, as such, on heaven's template wrought to commence. Wingless, they hesitate: whence, after all, were they brought to commence? Dimming their gleam, they contemplate: under what master taught to commence? Breath catching breath, gaze catching gaze, frozen in silence they fought to commence. How could their longing have grown so adept, innocent of what they sought to commence? Shining in darkness, they ponder the trust Daniel mustered with naught to commence. Daniel Zimmerman 7.21.2003 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:46 PM Subject: Re: gazelles > Dear Kazim and Murat and others in the ghazal thread, > > Yes, I think this is all about love, but doesn't love have to take place > in time and space? If we shrink the time limit then this brings the > love up to a point. I insist therefore on the deadline, and feel that > anyone who brings up ghazals after the deadline is a taboo-breaking > kamikaze pilot against love and beauty. > > I want to talk about beauty again, and not just assert that it exists, > but recover the enormous dialogue concerning it since Thomas Aquinas at > least! Beauty as theophany. I'm quoting from the Harvard philosopher > Elaine Scarry: > > "When I say that beauty has been banished, I do not mean that beautiful > things have themselves been banished, for the humanities are made up of > beautiful poems, stories, paintings, sketches, sculpture, film, essays, > debates, and it is this that every day draws us to them. I mean > something much more modest: that conversation about the beauty of these > things has been banished, so that we coinhabit the space of these > objects (even putting them inside us, learning them by heart, carrying > one wedged at all times between the upper arm and the breast, placing as > many as possible into our bookbags) yet speak about their beauty only in > whispers" (p. 57, On Beauty and Being Just -- Princeton, 1999). > > There is an interview with Elaine Scarry at > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/1999/11/09/scarry/ > > Sorry if I screwed up the link. I generally do. I liked her book, > although it is not as good as Kant by any stretch it is an attempt to > bring back the discussion of beauty. Another great book is the U. of > Minnesota philosopher Marcia Eaton's Aesthetics and the Good Life, > Fairleigh Dickinson 1990. Both defend beauty as the beginning of taking > an interest in the real world, and they both claim that aesthetics is > the mother of ethics. Eaton, of the two, is far and away the better > philosopher of beauty. > > There has been a lot of talking about the justice and politics of the > war of late on this poetry board, but almost never do we talk about > aesthetics. A poem is not good because it is just. I thought decades > back that women would avant-garde the discussion of beauty, but they > turned to ethics. Historically women have been among the best to talk > about beauty -- as far back as Sei Shonagon -- the things she says are > still spot on a thousand years later. > > I am not sure why it is that many feminists have turned so strenuously > against beauty. I have the feeling that some feminists like Andrea > Dworkin don't even like flowers! > > The ghazal form is all about beauty, and shouldn't be a matter of strict > rules. It has to bloom and freak in its own way. There are no rules > that can make something beautiful. Beauty is a kind of aberration, > something utterly new in the world, unprecedented. > > -- Kirby Olson > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:58:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [extreme] secret legends of homeless children (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:19:07 -0400 From: Tom Ritchford Reply-To: extreme@topica.com To: extreme@topica.com Subject: [extreme] secret legends of homeless children An intense read... At 1:07 PM +0100 7/21/03, Kyle Moffat wrote: >To: >From: "Kyle Moffat" >Subject: [forteana] Sad mythology of homeless children > >"To homeless children sleeping on the street, neon is as comforting as a >night-light. Angels love colored light too. After nightfall in downtown >Miami, they nibble on the NationsBank building -- always drenched in a >green, pink, or golden glow. "They eat light so they can fly," >eight-year-old Andre tells the children sitting on the patio of the >Salvation Army's emergency shelter on NW 38th Street. Andre explains that >the angels hide in the building while they study battle maps. "There's a lot >of killing going on in Miami," he says. "You want to fight, want to learn >how to live, you got to learn the secret stories." The small group listens >intently to these tales told by homeless children in shelters." > >Full story at >http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/1997-06-05/feature.html/page1.html -- http://loopNY.com ......................An "open loop": shows every Saturday! http://extremeNY.com/calendar .................................. the calendar. http://extremeNY.com/submit .......................... submit to the calendar. ------------------------- ----------------------------- extreme NY calendar: extreme NY radio: unsubscribe: extreme-unsubscribe@topica.com extreme calendar: extremeNY-subscribe@topica.com --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: sondheim@panix.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP7Si.bVXjTc.c29uZGhl Or send an email to: extreme-unsubscribe@topica.com TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:58:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hannah Nijinsky Subject: [none] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii to foredoom to failure or misfortune jinxed jinxed jinxed jinxed it's all been said before jinxed jinxed jinxed hannahnijinsky@callreview.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:37:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20RG=20via=20Ali=A0?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/20/03 6:47:14 PM, tlrelf@COX.NET writes: >1. The title usually includes the object which the ghazal addresses > >2. RG via Ali states that the repeating phrase "should be" a prepositional > >phrase that remains as consisten as possible. So, your prepositional phrase > >could be; "in the cage" > >3. the internal rhyme is just before the prepositional phrase in the > >couplet's second line. It doesn't have to be a perfect rhyme. You could >go > >for assonance, partial rhyme, etc. I see your rhyme scheme is with "play, > >prey, highway", etc. Rearrange in order to place it right before...(e.g., > >play in the cage; display in the cage, etc.) I am sorry to say it, but this is all nonsense. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:37:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the well nourished moon announced today:=A0 =A0=09=A0 on Sunday, August 3rd: Poetry Espresso presents a Postcard Poem Book Launch 7:00 pm @ 2202 Oxygen Bar 795 Valencia (@ 19th St=2E) San Francisco With readings (in pairs!) from: Cassie Lewis Del Ray Cross Jennifer Dannenberg Stephanie Young Tim Yu Catherine Meng and Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:28:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Head of God MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Head of God P12:5, 0:9.2 God the Ultimate is designative of personal Deity functioning on the divinity levels of the absonite and on the universe spheres of supertime and true God the Ultimate is the Second Experiential Deity. In the story of the growth and development of the post-Havona creations, his true have been participants in the actualization of this Deity level. Transcendence of the finite can lead only to ultimate attainment. God the Ultimate exists Each of them hold a part of the Ultimate Deity. Now everywhere. There is nothing that does not have a little of a God or a Goddess in it. God the Ultimate is the second experiential Deity. What the Supreme is to finite growth, the Ultimate is to absonite growth. What true God the Ultimate is the Second Experiential Deity. In the story of the growth and development of the post-Havona creations, his true Deity progression. The experiential Deities; God the Supreme. Summary of evolution of Supreme. God the Ultimate of that supreme God. Most urban Hindus follow one of two major divisions within Hinduism: Vaishnavaism: which generally regards Vishnu as the ultimate deity; true measure anything, I don't think the deity or spirit a divinity split into Ultimate Good and Ultimate Evil (akin to the Christian view of God and Satan true) - best demonstrated by the Greco-Roman deity structure. The 'sefirot'; mediate the interaction of the ultimate unknowable God with the physical at line 32. HOSANNAH! HOSANNAH! HOSANNAH! HOSANNAH! HOSANNAH! ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:37:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: emma goldman woulda hated anthologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gATHERINE: I realize september draws near.what dates mightyou be in the Bay Area? I will do my best to get us a reading. Lets hear! best wishes, David -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, July 21, 2003 9:43 AM Subject: Re: emma goldman woulda hated anthologies >actually, was there ever a selected writings from _Mother Earth_ >anthology? > >i.e., Goldman published a journal which contained poems, and it seems to >me it was a very "who's in, who's out" affair, much more so than >Margaret Sanger's press & journal(s), say > >Be well, >Catherine Daly >cadaly@pacbell.net > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:44:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nick: youre getting here tomorrow--hope this gets to you in time. Cecelia and I are hosting a party here on July 27, a sunday, from 4 to dark. I understand you wont have a car. -erhaps you could catch a ride with Kathy Fraser, who lives in SF. Phone me at 707-823-9212 and lets work it out. Look forward to seeing you, David -----Original Message----- From: npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:34 AM >Stephanie Young and I will be reading from our postcard poem >collaboration at the Oxygen Bar in San Francisco on Sunday, August 3rd >along with Cassie Lewis, Del Ray Cross, Catherine Meng, Tim Yu and >others in celebration of Café Expresso's Postcard Book series. More >details soon! Many thanks to Cassie Lewis and Café Expresso for this and >my forthcoming book with Stephanie! >Patrick Durgin and I will be reading at 21 Grand on Sunday, August 10th at >7 p.m., presented by Cynthia Sailers and the New Brutalists. >You are invited to come and visit my weblog -fait accompli- at http:// >nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ >Over 17,000 hits since May 24, 2003 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:05:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: more dirty tricks - Gay smear follows news report on Iraq report Egypt court acquits 11 suspected gay men * Episcopal Church rift over gays widens * Dentist expels lesbian, loses his license PROMOTION The White House allegedly retaliated against a journalist who reported last week about U.S. troops' morale problems in Iraq by alerting a popular Web site that the journalist is Canadian and openly gay. In a report that aired July 15, ABC News correspondent Jeffrey Kofman interviewed members of the 3rd Infantry Division in Baghdad, and several candidly criticized the prolonging of their tour of duty in Iraq. One even called for the resignation of U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. According to the Washington Post, the report angered members of the Bush administration, and a member of the White House communications staff alerted conservative cyber journalist Matt Drudge to the story, adding that Kofman is Canadian and openly gay. On Wednesday, the Drudge ! Report implied that the two details discredited Kofman. The Web site featured a tabloid-style headline, "ABC News reporter who filed troop complaint story is Canadian," but the link went to a 2001 profile of Kofman in the gay newsmagazine the Advocate. Drudge did not reveal the identity of the tipster, and White House spokesman Scott McClellan told the Post the incident would be "totally inappropriate if true." ABC News -- and many journalists -- condemned the incident as an attempt to smear Kofman based on his sexual orientation and birthplace. Jeffrey Schneider, spokesman for ABC News, told the Post, "Sadly, when people feel wounded by a truthful report, they attempt to attack the messenger." In a statement released on Monday, the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association warned that the attempted discrediting "is a form of dangerous intimidation and a potential professional libel." In an interview with CBC News, Kofman called the incident a "sideshow." ! "I think you just have to kind of look at this and roll your eyes and In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gay smear follows newsman's Iraq reportGay.com / PlanetOut.com Network Monday, July 21, 2003 / 05:35 PM The White House allegedly retaliated against a journalist who reported last week about U.S. troops' morale problems in Iraq by alerting a popular Web site that the journalist is Canadian and openly gay. In a report that aired July 15, ABC News correspondent Jeffrey Kofman interviewed members of the 3rd Infantry Division in Baghdad, and several candidly criticized the prolonging of their tour of duty in Iraq. One even called for the resignation of U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. According to the Washington Post, the report angered members of the Bush administration, and a member of the White House communications staff alerted conservative cyber journalist Matt Drudge to the story, adding that Kofman is Canadian and openly gay. On Wednesday, the Drudge Report implied that the two details discredited Kofman. The Web site featured a tabloid-style headline, "ABC News reporter who filed troop complaint story is Canadian," but the link went to a 2001 profile of Kofman in the gay newsmagazine the Advocate. Drudge did not reveal the identity of the tipster, and White House spokesman Scott McClellan told the Post the incident would be "totally inappropriate if true." ABC News -- and many journalists -- condemned the incident as an attempt to smear Kofman based on his sexual orientation and birthplace. Jeffrey Schneider, spokesman for ABC News, told the Post, "Sadly, when people feel wounded by a truthful report, they attempt to attack the messenger." In a statement released on Monday, the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association warned that the attempted discrediting "is a form of dangerous intimidation and a potential professional libel." In an interview with CBC News, Kofman called the incident a "sideshow." "I think you just have to kind of look at this and roll your eyes and move on," he said. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:02:18 -0400 Reply-To: devineni@rattapallax.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Organization: Rattapallax Subject: launch of FUSEBOX In-Reply-To: <1E6C4582-BC45-11D7-9D81-003065AC6058@sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends: I am happy to announce a new online magazine, FUSEBOX, dedicated to world fusion poetry, literature, music, and culture. The first issue is edited by HEATHER HERMANT, who is based in Budapest and Toronto. It can be viewed at http://www.rattapallax.com/fusebox.htm If you are interested in contributing or being involved, please contact me at 1-212-723-4125 or info@rattapallax.com Cheers, Ram Devineni Publisher FUSEBOX 1:=20 Featuring Anne Waldman, AJA (Adisa Jelani Andwele), Robert Creeley, Patricia Smith, Arnaldo Antunes, Regie Cabico, Arto Lindsay, Wednesday Kennedy, Vincent Farnsworth, K=E1lm=E1n Farag=F3, David Hill, Nancy = Cummins, Heather Hermant, Alan Semerdjian, Chris Turnbull, Lauren Williams, Coral Hull,Kareena Z, and Vincent Toro.=20 Festival reviews of Sanalan Poetics Festival, Prague and BudaPPPest! Poetry&Performance Picnic. Poetry from Prague & Budapest: drM=E1ri=E1s, Katalin Ladik, Petr Machan, Zsuzsa Katona, Pavla Fridrichov=E1, Orsolya Karafi=E1th.=20 Romanian poets Mircea Cartarescu and Costache Olareanu.=20 Poetry from Ireland edited by Fred Johnston.=20 Featuring Brendan O'Neill, Patricia Nolan, Alexander Venegas, Gerry McDonnell, and Nessa O'Mahony, Kevin Higgins, and Aoife Mannix.=20 Reviews of: Mary Jo Salter, Open Shutters=20 Susan Cataldo, Drenched: The Selected Poems of Susan Cataldo, 1979-1999 Joanna Fuhrman, Ugh Ugh Ocean Brenda Coultas, A Handmade Museum Lewis Warsh, Reported Missing Brendan Lorber, Dash Peter Bushyeager, Citadel Luncheonette=20 Vicki Hudspith with music by Daniel Freedman, Urban Voodoo=20 Essays: The Audience and Poetry: Watching The Light-bulbs Die by Kevin Higgins Terror and the art of travel by Wednesday Kennedy PAUL HARDACRE will edit issue 2 (October 2003) ROSEMARY DUN will edit issue 3 (December 2003) IAN McBRYDE and SEAN M. WHELAN will edit issue 4 (February 2004) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:06:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bill marsh Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030719150826.0422ff30@pop3.airmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this confirms my suspicion that poets born between, say, 1960 and 1966 are lost on the generational radar -- i was born in '64 and can safely say that i am either some kind of late-blooming boomer or an early avant-x-er (according to the census-takers, that is; at heart, i'm decidedly more Talking Heads than Dead Head) -- a Time magazine article i read back in the early 90's referred to us as "tweeners" -- hardly fitting for an anthology cover, but those of you (if any) born in that time span, please backchannel for commiseration -- maybe we can find a press...somewhere... bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:22:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Friedman Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps the Yale Younger Poets Anthologies would be a help in finding poets born between these years. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill marsh" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > this confirms my suspicion that poets born between, say, 1960 and 1966 > are lost on the generational radar -- i was born in '64 and can safely > say that i am either some kind of late-blooming boomer or an early > avant-x-er (according to the census-takers, that is; at heart, i'm > decidedly more Talking Heads than Dead Head) -- a Time magazine article > i read back in the early 90's referred to us as "tweeners" -- hardly > fitting for an anthology cover, but those of you (if any) born in that > time span, please backchannel for commiseration -- maybe we can find a > press...somewhere... > > bill > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:31:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: <000f01c3505a$8347b7e0$4b686944@sd.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit geez Bill, born in 57 here. sure as hell hope that doesnt mean Im a baby boomer. someday Id like to be in an anthology of poets who are ageless. mIEKAL On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 09:06 AM, bill marsh wrote: > this confirms my suspicion that poets born between, say, 1960 and 1966 > are lost on the generational radar -- i was born in '64 and can safely > say that i am either some kind of late-blooming boomer or an early > avant-x-er (according to the census-takers, that is; at heart, i'm > decidedly more Talking Heads than Dead Head) -- a Time magazine article > i read back in the early 90's referred to us as "tweeners" -- hardly > fitting for an anthology cover, but those of you (if any) born in that > time span, please backchannel for commiseration -- maybe we can find a > press...somewhere... > > bill > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:52:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: ghazal In-Reply-To: <005301c34fd0$0d4c4540$6d94c044@MULDER> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am sorry if yesterday my reply was slightly incoherent--it was actually swallowed twice and then I couldn't post more as I exceeded the "limit". See I am feeling a little raw with awful news of Reetika Vazirani's death. I feel glad and gratitude that folks want to learn about the ghazal and work in this demanding form (which is truly the form of mind) a poetic meditation. But sort of unsettled (accentuated by RV's death which of course lances old grief at Shahid's death) that writers might just "copy down the rules" and it will be the "new thing" for everyone to "try out" What would be unfortunate the most to me on the day of her death would be for people to feel like oh after the deadline no more ghazal for me, or for this thread to just wick and wick and fray away. I don't want the ghazal to be so apprehendible by a set of rules Shahid (or Richard Garcia) or anyone just sort hashes out together and then works with (or against for that matter). The question of "whether" or "how" the ghazal "coheres" or doesn't cohere is fundamental to the mindset not just of the literature but of the entire culture. I don't want us to work it out or not work it out by "July 24" or really "ever". The tone of discussion started out a little "ghazal is this strange beast from the Arab world" and went into "this what the ghazal is: this this and this" and I think I'm reacting against that. There should be no deadline. There should be no winner. Write and write it and see what it does to your brain. Read Shahid Ali but don't let him be the last word. He was a particular writer coming from an (admittedly very ecumenical) aesthetic view, but he's not the final word on the "ghazal in English." Be respectful of the cultural space this form developed in, but explore its purposes and possibilities. Read also any writer of the Arab world. Ghazal sensibility (if not form) seeps all through Darwish's new book, Saadi Youssef, Venus Khoury-Ghata (who does not write in Arabic), Fatia Faqir, El Sadaawi. Bhanu Kapil Rider's intense and life-affirming book "The Vertical Interrogation of Strangers" has the oddest strain of ghazal-sensibility to me. And this book is prose. Ostensibly. Be a heretic. Ali's book "Nostalgist's Map of America" called by him "free verse" has deep ghazal sensibility. But only writing the rules down from someone and writing a little ghazal because this month that's what we going to do would be like reading June Jordan's essay on Black English and everyone trying to write a "Black Arts Movement" poem. I hope everyone takes this post in the generous generous spirit it is intended. ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:47:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: binder free In-Reply-To: <1018e6dc9f77462e82b8a244c8e8131a.npiombino@aaahawk.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable binder free funny h w means vantage point s scatters w/ incept bits: stacked and / or piled) lifeless in divide ambient in Helvetica fix-in-cries but wait the conspiracy s speaker is about to plea=3D :::::dear weather : repeat more ple se, exclusively and extensively after (from shoe to shin ing on a 20 days=20= limited guar ntee) telepathically flippant, but still ragged . . . . =09 these. . ... prima donna nouns & gulf stream verbs - kill ed ina second - in those 4 tin sound sacrifices =09 tomorrow=92s throb away la botomized provisions _________________________________________________ =09 which brings us to the: >paint-n-point disposable >spot weld nonsense >dirt free dust =09 >dot sharpners and check make check ers >truck proof or other wise not noticed >a further later >not right but phase more ________________________________________________ if this is . . . and there is a hou e =09 co ld this be h meless? =09 roaming kept roaming =09 not miles from anyone w/out a trace unborn & restrained if this is roots could it be faster than sound? =09 blue curtain drain in radio abandon stil anxious on raw red fluid _____________________________________________________ a child musters a dream show blazon in thickness reduced to salient wall within time ___________________________________________________ this is the condition of dead people a principle option of the dieting retired axioms w/out a question=09 eternity's clones seeking security extension =09 =09 =09 =09 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:05:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bill marsh Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 In-Reply-To: <229340DA-BC51-11D7-B0F5-000393ABDF48@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >geez Bill, born in 57 here. sure as hell hope that doesnt mean Im a baby boomer. someday Id like to be in an anthology of poets who are ageless. mIEKAL right on, dude -- Generation...Not bill On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 09:06 AM, bill marsh wrote: > this confirms my suspicion that poets born between, say, 1960 and 1966 > are lost on the generational radar -- i was born in '64 and can safely > say that i am either some kind of late-blooming boomer or an early > avant-x-er (according to the census-takers, that is; at heart, i'm > decidedly more Talking Heads than Dead Head) -- a Time magazine > article i read back in the early 90's referred to us as "tweeners" -- > hardly fitting for an anthology cover, but those of you (if any) born > in that time span, please backchannel for commiseration -- maybe we > can find a press...somewhere... > > bill > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:10:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone who takes up digital writing is by default at least creatively young. So much to learn that one forgets one's age! I'm usually surprised when I learn someone's age, because voices speaking electronically sound younger than the writer's age usually turns out to be. Age, then, is measured by the depth of one's work; maturity, that is. While its inventiveness adds the bloom of youth. Joel W. Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > >geez Bill, born in 57 here. sure as hell hope that doesnt mean Im a > baby boomer. someday Id like to be in an anthology of poets who are > ageless. > > mIEKAL > > right on, dude -- Generation...Not > > bill > > > On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 09:06 AM, bill marsh wrote: > > > this confirms my suspicion that poets born between, say, 1960 and 1966 > > > are lost on the generational radar -- i was born in '64 and can safely > > > say that i am either some kind of late-blooming boomer or an early > > avant-x-er (according to the census-takers, that is; at heart, i'm > > decidedly more Talking Heads than Dead Head) -- a Time magazine > > article i read back in the early 90's referred to us as "tweeners" -- > > hardly fitting for an anthology cover, but those of you (if any) born > > in that time span, please backchannel for commiseration -- maybe we > > can find a press...somewhere... > > > > bill > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:18:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Forthcoming from Flood Editions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forthcoming in August from Flood Editions Graham Foust AS IN EVERY DEAFNESS Graham Foust's first collection sounds the depths of need and loss=20 through narcotics and the bleak interiors of winter. Although suspended=20 in indefinite, sometimes desperate states of desire, these spare poems=20 move toward an honest recognition of the damage incurred: "Welcome,=20 autumn, / to my room / of empty things. // Welcome to a room / like you."=20 "Though As in Every Deafness recalls the wintry meditative intensity of=20 William Bronk, it's a new millennium: 'Our economy proceeds / as if life=20 were an unlearning.' Graham Foust has an unerring sense of the exact contour= s=20 of a particular thought and is able to express them with mathematical=20 precision and emotional delicacy; yet pushing against lyric constraint is=20 wildness, uneasiness, sometimes terror." -- Susan Howe ISBN 0-9710059-8-2 $13.00 ORDER NOW AND SAVE Send a check for $10.00 made out to Flood Editions, and we will send you=20 this title at the end of August:=20 Flood Editions / PO Box 3865 / Chicago IL 60654-0865 STILL AVAILABLE Ronald Johnson, The Shrubberies. ISBN 0-9710059-0-7 $14.00 =20 Pam Rehm, Gone to Earth. ISBN 0-9710059-1-5 $10.00 Tom Pickard, Hole in the Wall: New & Selected. ISBN 0-9710059-1-5 $15.00 Philip Jenks, On the Cave You Live In. ISBN 0-9710059-2-3 $10.00 Fanny Howe, Economics. ISBN 0-9710059-4-x $14.00 =20 Paul Hoover, Winter (Mirror). ISBN 0-9710059-5-8 $13.00 William Fuller, Sadly. ISBN 0-9710059-7-4 $13.00 Robert Duncan, Letters: Poems 1953=E2=80=9356. ISBN 0-9710059-6-6 $16.95 Flood Editions PO Box 3865 Chicago IL 60654-0865 www.floodeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:29:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for that one, Joel. I don't qualify for Yale Younger Poets, or Poets Born After 1966, but I feel that I'm hitting my stride and have some years left in which I can still explore and improve. The only problem I have with younger writers receiving their due is that I wasn't one of them. But being one of them might have locked me into creating working much narrower in scope than I'm doing. And the corporation-dominated book industry has "virtually" forced a younger (in spirit), more adventurous literary culture to publish its work online. So, at least I'm affiliated with the young in spirit. And it rubs off. Vernon Frazer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > Anyone who takes up digital writing is by default at least creatively young. > So much to learn that one forgets one's age! I'm usually surprised when I > learn someone's age, because voices speaking electronically sound younger > than the writer's age usually turns out to be. Age, then, is measured by the > depth of one's work; maturity, that is. While its inventiveness adds the > bloom of youth. > > Joel W. > > > Subject: Re: Anthology of Poets Born After 1966 > > > > >geez Bill, born in 57 here. sure as hell hope that doesnt mean Im a > > baby boomer. someday Id like to be in an anthology of poets who are > > ageless. > > > > mIEKAL > > > > right on, dude -- Generation...Not > > > > bill > > > > > > On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 09:06 AM, bill marsh wrote: > > > > > this confirms my suspicion that poets born between, say, 1960 and 1966 > > > > > are lost on the generational radar -- i was born in '64 and can safely > > > > > say that i am either some kind of late-blooming boomer or an early > > > avant-x-er (according to the census-takers, that is; at heart, i'm > > > decidedly more Talking Heads than Dead Head) -- a Time magazine > > > article i read back in the early 90's referred to us as "tweeners" -- > > > hardly fitting for an anthology cover, but those of you (if any) born > > > in that time span, please backchannel for commiseration -- maybe we > > > can find a press...somewhere... > > > > > > bill > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:39:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: from the Quakers regarding a vote on Patriot Act amendment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >Dear Friend: > >We need your help now! In this Congress, there are precious few >opportunities to challenge the erosion of civil liberties under the USA >PATRIOT Act and the current Justice Department. However, funding bills do >present an opportunity to be heard, and Representatives Sanders (VT), >Otter (ID), and Conyers (MI, the ranking member on the House Judiciary >Committee) will introduce an amendment early this week that would de-fund >the FBI's USA PATRIOT Act library and bookstore spying tools. PLEASE TAKE >ACTION NOW to support the Sanders-Otter-Conyers Amendment to the Commerce, >Justice, State, and Judiciary Appropriations Bill of 2004. A House vote >could come at anytime beginning TODAY, Tuesday, July 22, 2003. > >The Sanders-Otter-Conyers Amendment will offer a version of Rep. Sanders' >bill, HR 1157, the Freedom to Read Protection Act. HR 1157 would >reinstate legal standards for investigations of library and bookstore >records that were in place before passage of section 215 of the USA >PATRIOT Act. Likewise, the Sanders-Otter-Conyers Amendment would restore >and protect the privacy and First Amendment rights of library and >bookstore patrons, while allowing the FBI to retain its ability to use all >previously available, constitutionally sanctioned means, including search >warrants and criminal subpoenas, to examine library and bookstore records. > >HR 1157 has 129 co-sponsors, both Democrats and Republicans, as well as >the support of 20 newspaper editorial boards and over 40 library, >bookstore, publishing industry, and civil liberties groups. These are >groups concerned with the "chilling effect" of section 215 of the USA >PATRIOT Act, with library patrons and bookstore customers self-censoring >their reading choices. The state legislatures of three states have added >their voices to 141 communities, representing almost 17 million people in >all, passing resolutions opposed to erosion of civil liberties under the >USA PATRIOT Act. > >Please call, email, or fax, your Representative. Urge him or her to >support the Sanders-Otter-Conyers Amendment to the Commerce, Justice, >State, and Judiciary Appropriations Bill of 2004. Help restore civil >liberties eroded by the USA PATRIOT Act. > >CONTACTING YOU REPRESENTATIVE IS EASY: Start with the sample letter >posted in our Legislative Action Center, personalize the language, then >email or fax your message directly from our site. You can also print it >out and mail it. To view the sample letter, click on the link below, then >scroll down to the bottom of the Alert. Here is the link: >http://capwiz.com/fconl/issues/alert/?alertid=2926236&type=CO. > >You can also contact your Representative by calling the Capitol >switchboard at 202-224-3121. When you call say, "Please support the >Sanders-Otter-Conyers Amendment to the Commerce, Justice, State and >Judiciary Appropriations Bill of 2004." > >For additional information please see "Background" towards the end of this >email. > >Thank you for your support. > >Kathy Guthrie >Field Program Secretary >Friends Committee on National Legislation >800-630-1330 > >****************************************************************************** > >BACKGROUND: Under the USA PATRIOT Act, passed in fear during the weeks >immediately following the terrorist attacks of September 11, the FBI can >initiate secret surveillance of a library or bookstore's public computers >and can demand library circulation records and bookstore business >records. In order to get a warrant for this surveillance, the FBI applies >to the secret Foreign Intelligence Security Act (FISA) court. To obtain a >FISA warrant, the FBI does not have to show probable cause of criminal >activity or show that the targeted individual is connected to a foreign >power. It is much easier to get a FISA warrant than a wiretap warrant >under criminal law. The FBI just has to certify to the FISA court that an >individual linked to "terrorism" or a "terrorist organization," terms with >very flexible definitions. Initial surveillance of a library or >bookstore's public Internet usage and circulation or business records can >be triggered by a target individual's library use. However, after the >initial intercept, the warrant attaches to the library or bookstore's >computer and location in addition to remaining with the targeted >individual. Then the FBI can monitor use of that facility by not only the >targeted individual, but by anyone using the computer - terrorist or >innocent citizen. Under the USA PATRIOT Act, the librarian or bookstore >owner served with a FISA warrant is subject to criminal prosecution if >they refuse to obey the FISA warrant or share the existence of the secret >warrant with anyone other than the library or bookstore employee who will >actually respond to that warrant. > >Section 215 allows the FBI to perform secret surveillance of a library's >public computers, to demand library circulation records, and to review >bookstore records and public computer use - all without notice to library >patrons or bookstore customers. Even the records and usage of law-abiding >patrons and customers can be secretly reviewed. And, the FBI can get >permission for secret library or bookstore surveillance under section 215 >of the USA PATRIOT Act without evidence of probable cause of criminal >activity. > >The Fourth Amendment guarantees protections from unreasonable searches and >seizures. The Sanders-Otter-Conyers Amendment will prevent the government >from engaging in unconstitutional searches of library and bookstore >records. The FBI has been aggressively using its new powers without >providing Congress with explanations about its activities. A University >of Illinois survey shows libraries were targeted at least 175 times in the >year after 9/11 -- yet the FBI refuses to offer any explanation of these >investigations. > >Under the Sanders-Otter-Conyers Amendment, the FBI can still keep tabs on >dangerous individuals at libraries and bookstores, using the legal >procedures used before the USA PATRIOT Act was enacted. > >****************************************************************************** >ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: For further information about the USA PATRIOT Act >and other aspects of the post-9/11 erosion of civil liberties in the >United States, visit FCNL's Civil Liberties and Human Rights website at: >http://www.fcnl.org/issues/immigrant/civil-rights_indx.htm. > >To keep up to date on the latest information about civil liberties work in >the area of libraries, archives, and bookstores, sign up for FCNL's >listserv called the "Library Friends Network" at >http://www.fcnl.org/listserv/quaker_issues.php. Pass this information >along to your friends! > >To learn more about FCNL's lobbying and educational programs, go to >http://www.fcnl.org/whatis.htm. > >DONATION INFORMATION: There are several methods for your financial support >of FCNL's work, including calling 1-800-630-1330 to make a credit card >donation over the phone, or printing and mailing in a donation form from >http://www.fcnl.org/suprt/su_contrb.htm. We welcome your gifts to FCNL in >support of our lobbying to influence public policy directly, or, to the >FCNL Education Fund if you would prefer a tax deduction. FCNL will not >sell or trade your name to any other organization. All contributors >receive the monthly FCNL Washington Newsletter, and periodic action kits >and alerts. These items are also available by request. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:56:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Next-Gen Nanopoetics #0017 - #0020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Next-Gen Nanopoetics #0017 - #0020 stronger known between found series poor stronger known banishment banishment between dropped name said dropped name said primarily children department piety seventh heaven dropped name said begins nor hours now youth the command systems heard words holy was nothing to you. found series poor intelligence focus begins nor hours now heard words holy command systems intelligence focus his early his God limited physician Softly organizations no fraud addition physician Softly injunction Adam Lisa injunction Adam Lisa organizations no coordination staff coordination staff publication released uneven at the top Punishment found coordination staff mouth of but several first one decisionmaking aims ability be yours fraud addition learn more in mouth of decisionmaking aims one learn more in training key Enoch soft satisfied years and faith Then God made soft ratified convention ratified convention satisfied years and theft unauthorized theft unauthorized brought grass answered Something theft unauthorized ye reminds promise device tempt Master-Attendant physician continues sides cymbals faith Then God made name capers ye reminds promise physician continues Master-Attendant name capers Thou create man wide problem neither voice face wicket heavenly from the immobility, he would voice face wicket Whalley in the Whalley in the heavenly from the till at "Oh, thanks. till at "Oh, thanks. day he contents side fire seven hail poor till at "Oh, thanks. flood pillar astray because catches up Ineffable thy died spikes developing will hiss immobility, he would May Thy will flood pillar astray spikes Ineffable thy died May Thy will made common taken cock circled locked shot home heavens myself also king back clustered locked shot home craft with date craft with date heavens myself also throat in complex- throat in complex- signs moon splashing parts tills emptied these technologies throat in complex- hedge former wafted heaven Sept Cain down black ringlet divisions located king back clustered single night's hedge former down black ringlet Cain single night's never these because swallowed this bolts top base went Japs would give her Bumble animals less bolts top base went catches up fiery catches up fiery Japs would give her piety iridescences piety iridescences universally areas screaming part perfect thy piety iridescences together sure force toxins other changes cock. I call the of the Hebrew Adam formation Bumble animals less critically must able together sure force of the Hebrew cock. I call the critically must able A Our friend, Adam, Adam's all bad all Next-Gen Nanopoetics #0018 account True Siva Linga off aquatic a few account True distinguish carry distinguish carry Siva Linga every first signs every first signs addressed Adam commanded his feet made common every first signs shivered a little. battered was not hotel. september sight give myself metropolitan area off aquatic a few he sent for shivered a little. sight give myself hotel. september he sent for considerations Let not my rest he watchers holy whether Esculapius nuclear weapon-free watchers holy the world. When of the world. When of whether Esculapius celestial tackling celestial tackling who borne yourself shall see effective need which will come celestial tackling coming physician whose little gayest all Messer water, let go must remain most nuclear weapon-free known dear company coming physician water, let go must gayest all Messer known dear company greatgrand- dining-unanimously agreed because ye last Man breast look permission horns because ye last Man shall reduce shall reduce breast look senator kennedy senator kennedy Melissa began strengthens man, garb social area senator kennedy data contained made roughly Hanina made specter her mouth, and designed permission horns had ever data contained made her mouth, and specter had ever islamic resistance thou mayest go burly Punishment found Cain, voices and time Samson's Punishment found and years of my and years of my Cain, voices and before him first before him first subcommittee massive walls rang candlestick Adam before him first kind given invested just year frogs wait more more bishops set fellows plutonium highly- time Samson's personnel protective kind given invested bishops set fellows wait more more personnel protective organs barely hour army Let me go untenanted minds lightning more But all untenanted minds remind wicked remind wicked lightning more eyes? eyes? way mouth came suddenly pulled me flock today eyes? harvest more million transitional realised Gian Maria herself excepting man God Legend More But all king in his place harvest more million herself excepting realised Gian Maria king in his place test extinction suits briefly opinion ADAM EVE of the celestial whereon altar harbor opinion ADAM EVE rang forth all man rang forth all man of the celestial comes home comes home look at his ship pinnacle towering offer tails lions comes home different at use fleeting moment -unique choke points current feet floor base an arm- desired to whereon altar harbor iraq weapons mass different at use feet floor base current iraq weapons mass hips Eve arise thy the Lord two copies Next-Gen Nanopoetics #0019 PARADISE command He had account work saw inspired fear PARADISE command forthcoming duumvir forthcoming duumvir He had account work borne himself borne himself his brother bend Libni and Shimei never all Romans borne himself thou mayest go burly voice and you suspense dread hidden things end without Cain saw inspired fear impious members thou mayest go burly hidden things end suspense dread impious members only thereof, eyes dismissed bear hand scampered mingled with ark I am deep cavities bear hand scampered birds leviathan birds leviathan mingled with ark motioning lower head motioning lower head fanged crests thrust head being halo told lowest motioning lower head never union Linga these actions china -president remain in -operational mounds wept prayed will leave ussr I am deep cavities Adam knew now can never union Linga mounds wept prayed remain in -operational Adam knew now can plague to him: he whole creation off across Holy Land forecasts based plant soon stretched off across Holy Land know like may cat know like may cat forecasts based pity give see MAN -made came own father pity give see MAN -made came own father most Miss Maylie said Mr summoned left pity give see MAN -made came own father birds leviathan see that nected ask observable angels eagerly in the nature of plant soon stretched righteousness up birds leviathan angels eagerly ask observable righteousness up unconsciously being deal nonetheless through porch interest antarctica cones shrunken sixth through porch difficult difficult interest antarctica times All these took times All these took Batu Beru number activities remove frequently rule times All these took seabees military duration day everything he did go opportunity woman solutions all cones shrunken sixth assist local coroner seabees military opportunity woman everything he did go assist local coroner nature essence Punishment Paradise leading recognize posse guide and talking leading recognize all parts seven all parts seven posse a sailor used bw a sailor used bw Monks thus Melissa grinning served very paupers a sailor used bw remaining problems his oath handing to insert important tried take neither right see guide and talking services agreed new remaining problems important tried take to insert services agreed new entertainment first washington september man quarters lightening attempt After an .. cock man quarters woman wicked woman wicked lightening attempt will hiss gather will hiss gather morion hand Last unsupported seemed King unto will hiss gather cut-offs with a pair all Hezekiah, his enamelled coating every contracting poor sir After an .. cock suppressed cut-offs with a pair every contracting enamelled coating suppressed shudder purpose hectoring beginning same creation crowned why -made came own father floor leaning beginning same forecasts based forecasts based creation crowned why -made came own father chief bread- chief bread- went chattering forms such seated first-born chief bread- proved good husband connection Now all never these because unfolded Hanina wife who and floor leaning other scud-b proved good husband unfolded Hanina wife never these because other scud-b death bed of a some looked Ruth paused extraordinary recommended parts of auditing paused extraordinary and Cammie thought and Cammie thought recommended parts of man art just all man art just all encroachments. itself told lowest doest Lord man art just all wherewith filers can seemed respirators must bare entry force endorsed auditing cooperative projects wherewith filers can bare respirators must cooperative projects applicable laws resources and far Father thou where put weeds husbands felt need Father thou where frist frist put weeds husbands across across invalidating some these all these shouldst across answered giant sons such hearkened unto acquisition seven thin chemical be in specific felt need Cheer up answered giant sons seven thin chemical acquisition Cheer up speed becomes always will. Next-Gen Nanopoetics #0020 Fra Domenico Ambamayam Sarvam you. If it Fra Domenico contents whom very contents whom very Ambamayam Sarvam hundred between hundred between had food fbi strategic participants held hundred between reserve components ground Inside against me and make go mountains protective suits you. If it as well," he said reserve components go mountains against me and make as well," he said men wide open able ward roasting accepted redeemer finding said to her same roasting accepted close targeting close targeting redeemer finding one works logistics one works logistics forever God Lord may -fire through attempt defense logistics other whom turned one works logistics masnadiero name introduced time undergo ability generations King -sentence Thou full mayest Thou said to her same coming physician masnadiero name generations King -sentence Thou undergo ability coming physician more two dozen meet own unique All during those prince tricks No instant, that. Let All during those admissions due cases admissions due cases prince tricks No Roccaleone whereunto Roccaleone whereunto through beasts -respect one giggle continue build bunch at the bare -texts And the sons Roccaleone whereunto surface air missiles provisions areas fowl whenever ruck dash-such health medical down to his piano, instant, that. Let us come to an feet surface air missiles dash-such health medical fowl whenever ruck us come to an feet tests date carried off wind diameter trunk contracts summary ascended once nature diameter trunk the the contracts summary glistening too much glistening too much furiously lips available help Sitting chariot glistening too much hath know can only up heavenly together Adam participating Hebrew word nor ascended once nature degradation hath know can Adam participating together degradation communication local enormous all Thus butchered now protocols and next I either part prevail butchered now including vigorous including vigorous protocols and next I thereby. captains. thereby. captains. my wealth after And hard. These were purposed gazing also thereby. captains. nonproliferation pious now Frightened to go He down to his piano, Guidobaldo who either part prevail other cousin's nonproliferation down to his piano, Frightened to go He other cousin's barmaid looks good flood devotee command bidding made tell magistrate brought command bidding planning level planning level made tell magistrate most most account kept all saw cones workshops PARADISE command most Adam nails will deal fire. people who to harassment tolerated equipment including transgress stand awe brought sir command bear Adam nails will deal equipment including harassment tolerated sir command bear and a family through lightning more important bear -cried Agellius ourselves down lightning more was also a proof. was also a proof. important bear -cried Agellius put enmity Serang?" put enmity Serang?" Santi looked each handling it with dwellers one all put enmity Serang?" stream. It small authorization bitterly Angel camp contract you and ourselves down of our sister stream. It small camp bitterly Angel of our sister nature waters moment More story Next-Gen Nanopoetics #0021 pearls sixty third and moans and smells. groups Adam gathered pearls sixty third the coffee shop and the coffee shop and and moans and smells. beasts birds Oh beasts birds Oh physician let transpire among assisting beasts birds Oh lapidaries bw secluded spots has come hearken clattering dhhs provide groups Adam gathered will paternal lapidaries hearken clattering has come will paternal thy pious maiden eat make Noah day beginning same harmless similar streamed up flaming day beginning same several critical several critical harmless similar decisions take decisions take came face disgrace, are these? badly he Laban What have decisions take them Why have you on the bank a government heaven, hitch-hike chance incandescence streamed up flaming Alec's lap. When them Why have you hitch-hike government heaven, Alec's lap. When killed worse time those thee thy evil hares ortolans son So great was his put him to hares ortolans broken up has story. broken up has story. son So great was his Midrashic some same Midrashic some same more thought step among men knew WORLD green red Midrashic some same soaked called glory thine head death-rattle more. Before candle thrust iron put him to six days against soaked called glory more. Before head death-rattle six days against her, "Cammie, I investigative arm parasangs side Noah get something. You left parasangs side Noah called deployment called deployment get something. You fail. That all fail. That all numbers and in there was dinner reservations fail. That all kinswoman deeply human being, known again Grimwig will leave sexual thoughts All left sunshine flowed over kinswoman deeply Grimwig will leave known again sunshine flowed over consequences heaven containment great two sins way I may be certain regional teams great two sins commanded his feet commanded his feet way I may be certain take Linga take Linga Ventnor dropped Shemhazai said, depraved like take Linga entirely words agree aquatic nor hours defiance greater slope of an indigo consequence regional teams dtc Then entirely words agree slope of an indigo defiance greater dtc Then torture hands increases Watson remained Nonsense unclean existence more Watson remained art thou all feeling art thou all feeling Nonsense unclean fingers in (through fingers in (through Punishment Paradise reconnaissance rains fingers in (through flaming fire heard president june animals less turned vicinity mountains ground together existence more Goodwin physician flaming fire heard vicinity mountains animals less turned Goodwin physician Adam touches destruction august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:00:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: spam compression/distillation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE spam compression/distillation $2000000000usd tune $32000000 worth +34-649-011-828 share +873-763-430-526 fax - entire 1500gmt o=D2clock 1977 corporation 1990=D2sthe early 1997 september 1998 june 20% withdrawal 2002 27th 25% assistancethe december 3 cancer 39 agreement 5% remaining 500-600 crashed 6 runway 70% informed 75% potential 8th on a advent abacha sani ability doubt about usd$26426m abroad push absolutely is acceptable proposal accommodation hotel accomudation perfectly account john accounts time acknowledge total address e-mail advance so advantage with advicer affidavit ignorance africa african south africa=D2s east after against propaganda age purposes ago months reaching aim risks alhaji represent ali mr all outside allocated votes alone also box alternative note am presently american charity3% ammunitions purchasing amount hugh an assistance anc use and nothing andthen any or apart set application proper appointed kin appologise ethics approved when are assure arise arms buying arop daniel arrest house art/cultural investments artifacts sales as may assist look decided want assured be asylum living at attorney attempts several attending officials your ausserer dwight authorities frozen away write balance bank reliable barrister bbc cnn of because surprise been please before begin like beginning refer behalf ensure beneficial deal beneficiary family benefit drug beneificary open better nairobi between very bills telephone/fax born but trunk brother bulletins news burial buried busia business intimate business/mutual percentage through by came having can partner sadly cannot incarceration capability cash extent central vaults certificate me chairman tony chamber commerce chambers change money2% chief former choice stating citizen claim familyi clarification provide client trustworthy client's close war features co-operation code consistent come has commece industry commemoration trade company personal confidence introduced confidentiali keep confines restricted confirm contacted confisticated properties conflict later contact got intensified contents if continued mother contract controversy urgently converting theexecution mining could purchase country court countrynigeria leader high cousin distant crash surrounding crave humbly currently redeem custody danbaba kept search make death due deceided possible won decision europe delivery file democratic new department worry deposit secret deposited ownership desire sincere destination made detailed details died who difficult negotiable directly paid director disclosed discuss dispensation disposed well required disturbances division last do does dollars us no drove guarantee indicating during sierra-leone where effect travel elected newly election email firm email:mohammedkhalifjnr1@ziplipcom risk employee end national endeavor endeavour five energy responsibility injure establish estates gwarzo etcthere nigerian meet financial events familiar ever what everyone transaction exhibition exihibition exile rest existence logdement expenses relationship exsitence proof know facilitate him fact-finding swear outing far father favor received favuor whose sat meters few late figures gen past filing process finance state finance/security yengeni@awiszzncom finanical instability first flight processof following follows: for forces foreign source foreign> given forget off the forward grateful four twenty fred from hear fully outfit fund funds further websites future honesty gave she general which give over position go once government most hereby ishmaila had happened handle handling himself rtd have i he hindred heading ihope held help hence possession her prior here matter village his honest rudiments hope hostility how however led would hundred six morgan mail immediate immediately important replying in informations incidental include incuding incurre resources indulgence information might initiated seriously inquiry ticket intend interest two interested reach international purpose intiquities itcc into only were introduction way invested wilbe investing investment involved there name it it=D2s son junta military kabba tijan kanu moi karimu under keeping senior kenya province kenya=D2s khalif kibaki mwai killed next kisumu port though koroma paul lak= e more sensitive reveal law reply leadership leading nation=D2s leased purchased letter this logded long years madrid sending main major towards managed mandated manged subject maturity since means stable message met not million thirty-two mineral t minister other ministry mission money was mutilated president my relocate nine party native tanko needed nigeria one view now number number: obasanjo olusegun whip took weapons same persecution opposition orange order originally pilot our out year then over-throwing owner spain will par secured parliament's part ruling payment transferred period short severe person physically place plane you political present victoria portfolio telephone presidentkanuthe pressure sesay upon properous strong proposition should regime provided western used we question reaches reason rebel receipt receive reimbursement relatives value result safe said satisfied trust secretary security sent shared states sit treasure thirty-three solicit some soon yengeni united status success without sum take tenure that these things usd336m writing thousand to totalling transvaal us$255m valued while within world zaheer 1 pico jj 2 sort jj > zz 3 wc zz 4 ./mod 5 wc zz 6 ./a/eliminate.pl < zz > jj 7 mv jj zz 8 wc zz 9 pico zz 10 tr A-Z a-z < zz > jj 11 pico jj 12 sed 's/[.;,()^]//g' jj > zz 13 pico zz 14 wc zz 15 ./a/eliminate.pl < zz > jj 16 wc jj 17 pico jj 18 ./a/elim2.pl < jj > zz 19 wc zz 20 pico zz 21 sort zz > yy 22 pico yy 23 ./a/eliminate.pl < yy > zz 24 wc zz 25 pico zz 26 h ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:01:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Morning Foot Notes Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A new brand of eco-graffiti appears in the City. Wide diameter pink and powder-blue chalk on the wide concrete double stair-steps up into Dolores Park, there in front of the big bronze bell at the east, 19th Street formal entry. In nice big cursive second grade style letters: (1st Step/ Baby Blue) SCRAP THE SENSATIONAL (2nd Step/ Pink) EMBRACE THE ECSTATIC (Love in a heart shape) YOUR MOTHER The wiccans are busy - bless their hearts! Just a Foreign Policy Thought, in the absence of WMD and the other thought to be rational reasons for pre-emptive assassinations and "Occupation optimism", I am thinking, the Admins might just revert to calling the Iraq affair a "Faith Based Initiative" - though, in that case, I suspect many denominations will strenuously object. As to assassinations, and the Rumsfeld & companies near delirium "kill" the enemy mantra (mirrored by Sharon & Co. in Palestine), I fear when this gangster policy and strategy of murder comes back to haunt our own shores. Like whatever happened to the mantra of "Bring X to Justice", and the worldly - and the considered civilizing benefit of trials, most notoriously, for example of hearing out Nazi crimes at the Nuremberg trials. Is this process only reserved for Europeans and not considered applicable to, for example, Arab "infidels." "Infidels" versus "Faith Based Gangsters." A deep erosion is at work, Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:16:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Morning Foot Notes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Stephen Vincent" wrote on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:01 PM: "I am thinking, the Admins might just revert to calling the Iraq affair a "Faith Based Initiative" Given the clear absence of facts, faith IS its only justification---the President's faith in the electorate's continued gullibility . Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:21:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kazim, I share the same sentiments. Americans get carried away with technique and re-inventing the wheel. As if a form could be reduced to a technique that then can be key-punched and quickly manufactured. Like Idries Shah's paradox of the cardboard of a cereal box that has more nutritional value than the contents of it. Form is but an extension of content is not really true. There must be substance, nutrient value for the mind (I like what you wrote "the ghazal and work in this demanding form (which is truly the form of mind)"-- not in the packaging or formula (or writing the ghazal for the sake of saying that I wrote a ghazal). You may think that Pound did not teach us anything,-- what with the persona and all that (you said that whether a ghazal coheres is not merely a matter of formula, but of an entire culture, as Pound got drunk on the troubadors (who were drunk on the ghazal spirit in Spain)). So, again, please excuse the ingenuousness, for that is what it is. A bit too enthusiastic, like a child's, but no patronization intended. I think you mean that ghazal is like Lorca's duende, right? Perhaps, more than duende. In writing about Arabic poetry Omar Pound has this to say: At first a pious poetry developed, written in praise of Allah, the prophet, his mantle, and the achievements and blessings of Islam. This religious fervor shows itself particularly in the mixing of the sacred and profane in a single poem, as in Donne. In Western poetry the religious and secular tend to be kept apart, but to the orthodox Muslim no dichotomy appears to exist since every aspect of life is part of God's will and therefore sacred. I hope in quoting Pound's son I am not being patronizing to presume that Pound's son, a Westerner, could explain this, but I have no one else to quote and I think Pound's latter point, the separation of the sacred and the secular, is more important to the discussion of the ghazal and the foreigness of the ghazal to the secular mentality that we have here in the U.S. (It just occured to me, what about Juan de la Cruz? Maybe Pound was just making a point to an English readership when he referred to Donne.) Funny that Pound's son became a Persian and Arabic scholar. Is there some poetic justice there? Pound's anti-Semitism and then, Pound's son's embracing of a Semitic literature. Recalling the muezzin's call-to-prayer calls me back, I'm planning to return to that part of the world. There is nothing more beautiful then to hear the call-to-prayer at dusk, that initial time I heard it in passing a mosque in Riyadh. There is more I want to say, but I must review my Arabic script. Matt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:25:27 -0400 Reply-To: gmcvay@patriot.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Kazim, How about one that wasn't written to be cool? And is trying desperately to fit the form, in order to contain emotion? If it sucks, that's because I'm kind of bent out of shape at the moment. The events alluded to are probably already notorious after a week. Reetika, Jehan How and why? how and why? we feral pigeons mourn Only you know what was torn at the end A cloth maybe once both of you could have worn Enchanted scarf, your son made unborn at the end Pictures, the dark-eyed, nothing words could adorn A savage dark-gold unicorn at the end A maddening simoom, a beast with just one horn A single and perfect rose-thorn at the end When the storm came my wing could not shelter you, born mortal as I am, forlorn at the end -- "Nobody gets paid to be a poemer." -- Bucky the cat, "Get Fuzzy" comic strip, 6/30/03 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:30:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lynn Tait Subject: Anthologies for kids MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please, can we not have an anthology for poets born BEFORE 1960??!! Yours in harmony Lynn Tait lyta@sympatico.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:14:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Ghazels aside... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poets of the world, I ask you, even those of you born after = 1970...what's worse, lying to the nation about having had oral sex = performed on you in the oval office, or lying to the nation about the = nefarious antics of a chap who bested your father in a previous war and = at whom you target your personal and familial anger =20 Vote here: Oral sex lies are worse: Nefarious antics lies are worse: Just curious, but I thought the matter worth voting on... I'll count the votes and report with honesty...honest! alex=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:25:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: TWHM X MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we regret to tell you her bags and threatened to of course it is not that there are no clearly or sixty feet in diameter may be characterized as follows but to avoid delay consistency in a negative way but when he reaches felt this could only be temples, tombs, or palaces, rather or when speaking of defenses we are forwarding today fire engines I run into it must be remembered that had watched his parents dance dogs and cats are kept procedure without dissolving into the which we expect to receive kinds of things she never in its original form this past when watching television downstairs is expended upon the latter fears of his father because ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:52:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: TWHM X MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, two things: lovely; distressing!=20 cleverly warped nonsense, as is my life.=20 alex ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Platt=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 5:25 AM Subject: TWHM X we regret to tell you her bags and threatened to of course it is not that there are no clearly or sixty feet in diameter may be characterized as follows but to avoid delay consistency in a negative way but when he reaches felt this could only be temples, tombs, or palaces, rather or when speaking of defenses we are forwarding today fire engines I run into it must be remembered that had watched his parents dance dogs and cats are kept procedure without dissolving into the which we expect to receive kinds of things she never in its original form this past when watching television downstairs is expended upon the latter fears of his father because ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:10:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Ghazels aside... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Surely you jest... Nefarious antics in an attempt to up the ante are far worse than oral sex with a married man...Why do people get so caught up with the relative issues... I have a T-shirt from Kramer Books and the Afterwords Cafe that reads: Subpoened for Book Selling...I had coffee there once. It's hard to not think about oral sex in a book store... Ter Poets of the world, I ask you, even those of you born after 1970...what's worse, lying to the nation about having had oral sex performed on you in the oval office, or lying to the nation about the nefarious antics of a chap who bested your father in a previous war and at whom you target your personal and familial anger Vote here: Oral sex lies are worse: Nefarious antics lies are worse: Just curious, but I thought the matter worth voting on... I'll count the votes and report with honesty...honest! alex ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:52:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: ghazal In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii you give me a lot to think about. i didn't know pound's son became a scholar. you hit the heart of a lot of my thinking when you write "you may think Pound didn't teach us anything" (or something like that?) i think wrestling with modernism v new postromantic etc is the heart of my thinking and my poetic practice (of course by no means am i alone in that--Susan Howe is clearest major example I can think the same of) ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:06:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: M.A.D. at 90 plus photos Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Howdy folks, Just letting you know that my serial work "My Angie Dickinson" now stands at 90 poems - and that my mystery webmeister has, to my surprise and delight, added dozens of new photos (almost one to a poem), stranger by the minute. http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com -m. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:43:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bill marsh Subject: Oxygen / SF Lodging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm hoping to head up to San Fran for the weekend of the Oxygen Bar reading (Aug 3) along with my partner Octavia -- can anyone recommend a place/area (in the vicinity or not) for relatively cheap lodging? and/or strategies for finding same? (please backchannel) thanks, bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:33:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: ghazal In-Reply-To: <20030723135252.1527.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit His discussion - much to my 'established' formal oppositional nature & practice - I find fascinating. I recently wrote the following piece, and someone immediately called a ghazal, though that was not a conscious part of its making. But maybe we sometimes call poems into a particular genre as a way of making comfort with the process of reading them. Similar to in the west (usa) - to stretch a story here - when Indians first encountered single white women living near their communities - say riding by on a horse - they first would say nothing, not even feign a greeting, until one day an Indian - who had been 'abroad' called out "school marm", and then the women gained an identity, whether or not they were teachers, but were publicly accepted. But here goes: When I said I had no rhythm, She said she would find it. When I said I had no heart, She said she had it. When I said I was half way in the grave, She said there is no bottom. When I am compelled to praise her, A dark dove is a shadow in the window. When I ask her the origins of my name, She speaks in an ancient Arabic. When I ask her has there always been a war, She says the strongest words are scraped in torment. When I ask what about desire, She speaks in a calligraphy of constant fire. When I say what is that, She does not speak and points her finger: The marble tablet in the bush, Its upturned words are each one burning. Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:18:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Small Presses--Advertise in Boog City MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Boog City, the East Village Community newspaper, is an affordable way to reach likeminded New Yorkers who would be interested in your offerings. We come out monthly, with a print run of 2,000, and are distributed primarily in the East Village and Williamsburg, as well as some select locations in Philadelphia and other parts of Manhattan. We have very reasonable rates for small presses (got to take care of my own) and can also design your ad. Backchannel to editor@boogcity.com or boogcityny@aol.com for more information and a rate card. Thanks, David --- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:31:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: ghazal In-Reply-To: <20030723135252.1527.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what's some examples of new postromantic? I havent a clue what you mean by that. but then I have cows in my backyard (almost) & it wouldnt be surprising if Ive completely missed out on something. mIEKAL On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 08:52 AM, Kazim Ali wrote: > > > i think wrestling with modernism v new postromantic > etc is the heart of my thinking and my poetic practice > (of course by no means am i alone in that--Susan Howe > is clearest major example I can think the same of) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:39:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: M.A.D. at 90 plus photos In-Reply-To: <1058969191.3f1e9667c5d42@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit m: the idea of logging an extended poem series with the use of a blog strikes me as being a kind of form in itself, in some ways the process & technology of writing a long poem that way lays down a footprint of what the poem will become. making the poem dependent on a very specific piece of software, a particular way of entering the text, a very specific audience, etc. so I wonder if it feels different to be writing a poem that way. & wondering if there are other poems that are happen that way.... mIEKAL & these are known as Blong Poems? ... portmanteau of blog + long... On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 09:06 AM, mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > Howdy folks, > > Just letting you know that my serial work "My Angie Dickinson" now > stands at 90 > poems - and that my mystery webmeister has, to my surprise and > delight, added > dozens of new photos (almost one to a poem), stranger by the minute. > > http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com > > -m. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable also note: Every Day, the book of poems by Philip Whalen is=20 'Respectfully dedicated to the memory of John McClaren 1846-1943 Builder = of Golden Gate Park" MR Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:51:36 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Green Zone and Anticapitalist Carnival : three days of workshops, art, music, poetry, theatre MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT [please pass on to all who would be interested and post on websites] RESISTANCE IS FERTILE! THREE DAYS OF CREATIVITY IN A NON-CONFRONTATIONAL SETTING ... in opposition to the WTO mini-ministerial July 28th and 29th: Green Zone. From 10 am to 5 pm, a safe "chill" zone open to all. July 30th: Anti-capitalist carnival. From 10 am to 5 pm, a festival of creative resistance and solidarity. *+*+*The Green Zone and Anti-Capitalist Carnival are being organised on a self-scheduling basis. If you would like to give a workshop, facilitate a skill-share, talk, or share spoken word poetry, music, theatre, etc, you can sign up at the welcome centre (1420 Sherbrooke W., 4th floor) on J25, the teach-in on J26, or the Spokescouncil on J27 - while space lasts! Tables will also be available for information and literature if you arrange for tablers.*+*+* (Location to be announced.) **Programme in Progress (more is being added, stay tuned!)** EVERY EVENING: screenings of media generated during the day (slide shows of photos, audio collages, and videos) MONDAY J28: 10-5 Music (make your own!), food, info-fair, prop-making, hanging out. 12-2 Workshop (EN) "Confronting Capitalist Globalization and Apartheid" (Jaggi Singh) 2-3 Music, art, theatre .... 3-5 Workshop (EN) "Mapping Militarisation in Montreal: Uprooting the Empire" (Block the Empire-Montreal) **Street Party (to begin after Spokescouncil) TUESDAY J29: 10-5 Music (make your own!), food, info-fair, prop-making, hanging out. 12-2 Workshop (EN/FR) "Stateless and Deported: Resisting Palestinian Deportations in Montreal" (members of the Coalition Against the Deportation of Palestinian Refugees) 2-3 Music, art, theatre ... 3-5 Workshop (EN/Urdu/Hindi) "Stop the Deportations: The case of Pakistani Refugees in Montreal" (Action Commitee of Pakistani Refugees and members of Rebel Desis and No one is Illegal Montreal) WEDNESDAY J30: ANTI-CAPITALIST CARNIVAL 10-5 Music, theatre, food, info-fair, hanging out. 12-2 Workshop by the South African Solidarity Network 2-4 Workshops 4-5 Banana Dreamboat Theatre + more political theatre and music!! Info : anticapitalist.carnival@cyberso.zzn.com or http://montreal.resist.ca Organised by the Popular Mobilistion against the WTO ==================================== [svp circuler et mettre sur les sites web!] LA RESISTANCE EST FERTILE! TROIS JOURS DE CRÉATION SUR UN MODE NON-CONFRONTATIONNEL ... s'opposant à l'OMC 28 et 29 juillet: Zone Verte. De 10 h à 17 h. Un espace animé et ouvert à tous, pour relaxer et s'informer. 30 juillet: Carnaval anti-capitaliste! De 10 h à 17h. Carnaval festive de solidarité et de résistance créative. *+*+*+ *La Zone Verte et le Carnaval Anti-Capitaliste fonctionnent par auto-inscription. C'est-à-dire que si vous désirez donner un atelier, une conférence, une lecture de poésie, une performance musicale ou théâtrale ou toute autre activité, il est nécessaire de s'inscrire en se rendant soit au centre d'accueil (qpirg Concordia--1420 Sherbrooke O, 4e étage) le 25 juillet, soit au teach-in du 26, soit au spokescouncil du 27. Premiers arrivés, premiers servis... Des tables seront aussi disponibles pour les gens qui voudront animer un kiosque d'information. *+*+*+* (Lieu à annoncer.) ***L'horaire (Notez qu'il risque fort bien de se remplir au cours de cette semaine!)*** LUNDI le 28 juillet : 10-5 Zone libre! Musique (amenez vos instruments!), bouffe, tables d'info, etc. 12-2 Atelier (EN) "Confronting Capitalist Globalization and Apartheid" (Jaggi Singh) 2-3 Musique et performances 3-5 Atelier (EN/FR) "Une carte de la militarisation de Montreal" (Bloquez l'Empire-Montreal) Soir: Party de rue! MARDI le 29 juillet : 10-5 Zone libre! Musique (amenez vos instruments!), bouffe, tables d'info, etc. 12-2 Atelier (EN/FR) par la Coalition contre la déportation des réfugiés palestiniens 2-3 Musique et performances 3-5 Atelier (EN/Urdu/Hindi) par le Comité d'action des réfugiés pakistanais MERCREDI le 30 juillet : 10-5 Zone libre! Musique, théâtre, bouffe, tables d'info, etc. 12-2 Atelier par le Réseau de Solidarité avec l'Afrique du Sud 2-4 Ateliers 4-5 Théâtre de rue, musique Pour plus d'information, veuillez contacter anticapitalist.carnival@cyberso.zzn.com ou http://montreal.resist.ca Organisé par la Mobilisation populaire contre l'OMC ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Naturally Painless Spray, Coral Calcium, No Snore, EZ Appetite Suppressant. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2882 http://us.click.yahoo.com/yoMABA/ruYGAA/ySSFAA/xYTolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: mobglobplan-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:14:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Finally! COMBO 12: A VERY SPECIAL ISSUE Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit IT'S HERE!!! THE VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL ISSUE OF COMBO --- COMBO 12: A VERY SPECIAL ISSUE!!! WHY IS IT SO SPECIAL??? KATIE DEGENTESH: SPECIAL K. SILEM MOHAMMAD: SPECIAL GARY SULLIVAN: SPECIAL PERSON SHARON MESMER: SPECIAL MITCH HIGHFILL: VERY SPECIAL DAVID LARSEN: SPECIAL MICHAEL MAGEE: ESPECIALLY SPECIAL MARIA DAMON: XTRA SPECIAL JORDAN DAVIS: SPECIAL DANIEL BOUCHARD: REALLY, REALLY SPECIAL RODNEY KOENEKE: TOTALLY SPECIAL NADA GORDAN: SPECIAL DREW GARDNER: SPECIAL SEE??? COMBO 12 is 60 pages, side-stapled with original artwork of deer on glossy cardstock cover. AT $10/4-issue subscription IT'S THE CHEAPEST, GREATEST POETRY MAG IN THE WHOLE WORLD!!! and don't forget our LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION at $50.00 (includes all future issues as well as all available back issues). Single copies are now $4.00 CASH OR CHECK TO: Michael Magee, 31 Perrin Ave., Pawtucket, RI 02861 NEW EMAIL: combo1@cox.net LOOK FOR OUR NEW AND IMPROVED WEB DESIGN SOON AT: www.combopoetry.com That is all. -m. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:29:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Sky. One. And two. Comments: cc: 7-11 7-11 <7-11@mail.ljudmila.org>, "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 1. Summer afternoon in a quiet apartment tarnishes quickly as the corrosions air will swallow lonely in an annul in way. Plumes and pulp leopard-print raw mind there, without thrall. Anenome moans, almost porous with mis-typed nouns; facile with wraiths these edges of new talking to her. You earn the nursing. Running just beneath respiration, arid drawers that sambo and clatter. Bitter thunder, a virtue chorus a fungus, garages with dips to accept or the corollary: capital pacifies, oceanic: blood like a lizard, dervish or delicacy. Your anemia shouldn't frown, because a mouth is so much less without her. Earthful. We like the troubling drums. If I could tremble, ledged somehere fine beneath her, in thirds would be enough? Here? Somewhat turns all the colors down on rainy days. Able to, like lengthwise upturned, as if not knowing any judgement definitely a reqium somewhat. Desensitized to orgasm, as if a saggiterraneous. The motherfuckers in charge, it's kill or be killed. Yellow hose sore. It's wholly erotic, off-centre but necking, hardcore; SummerQuiet on a within of gross remark. You think I'm just fucking with you? Pins with cloud eyes won't know a hurting night of hungry nothing: no: just reflecting. Loose, but scuffling: judicious dross. Some words just don't belong together. You've never looked at a wall peeling with paint, you said; you've never desperate traded. Keep me in the loop. 7/21/03 2. WinterMute always had to repeat himself when he explained it to them. Across the backyard, in the narrow swatch of grass that seperated the two, one man had coated his window with tinfoil. Leslie hypothesized he was growing weed. And yet every window you tried in the place was dark; WinterMute could feel them buzzing to get in. "I must have watched that yellow hose for hours. To a beat," WinterMute was telling them, all the light in the empty room weighing his smile. She wouldn't understand him, quagmired as she was in him. Sometimes she would flail, held so close there, and sometimes she would even fly. "I remember," he was trying so hard to smile. "You were there, and you, and you." "Goodnight," she said. She'd never been that good at decisions. "Don't stay up too late." In the dark you messed up, all the time. WinterMute thought about the war. Who were these people, he wondered. Why? 7/22/03 ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:05:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Battered Abused Homeless And Pregnant #0001 - #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Battered Abused Homeless And Pregnant #0001 - #0003 time mentioned alluded investigative reports discussed agencies individuals outside bureau duly qualified representatives office naval intelligence military intelligence division strictly confidential basis attorney general justice department apparently informed fbi decision continue program classify dangerous individuals different name moreover fbi investigations conform attorney general biddle statement justice department proper function investigation activities persons who violated law fbi director instructions end war emphasized bureau investigated activities prosecutive intelligence significance toward end war fbi limit substantially investigation individual communists orders field requiring investigation every member communist political association cpa party named during modified field offices instructed confine investigations key figures national regional units cpa directive received widely varying interpretations field many offices continued open cases basis membership alone further instructions april stated investigations restricted key figures potential key figures rather all members policy security index cards prepared those individuals greatest importance communist movement end war head fbi intelligence division ladd recommended director hoover another cutback operations proposal approved fbi executive conference state department justice department criminal division advised changes fbi field offices instructed immediately discontinue all general individual security matter investigations all nationalistic categories specific exceptions cases involving communists russians individuals who nationalistic tendencies result ideological organization affiliation marxist groups such socialist workers party workers party revolutionary workers league groups similar character members nationalist party puerto rico fbi open new general individuals security matter investigations unless fall within specific exceptions instructions permitted field continue investi- gating individuals whose activities paramount intelligence importance such individuals closely allied political groups abroad individuals prominent organi-zational activity significance individuals falling within similar categories instructions added realized course connection intelligence jurisdiction bureau necessary investigate activities affiliations certain individuals considered key figures nationalistic related activities considered leaders importance various foreign nationality groups such instance question advisability desirability instituting such investigation view instructions course refer matter bureau appropriate decision flexibility specifically allowed investigation fascist individuals prosecutive intelligence significance president roosevelt directive december fbi sis reads follows accordance previous instructions federal bureau investigation set up special intelligence service covering western hemi-sphere agents mexico central america south america caribbean canada close contact liaison Battered Abused Homeless And Pregnant #0002 established intelligence officials these countries order all responsibility centered federal bureau investigation field hereby approve arrangement request heads all government departments agencies concerned clear directly federal bureau investigation connection intelligence work within sphere indicated director federal bureau investigation authorized instructed convene meetings chiefs various intelligence services operating western hemisphere maintain liaison intelligence agencies operating western hemisphere confidential directive heads concerned agreement between fbi military intelligence dealing special intelligence operations western hemisphere cited presidential instructions june january described fbi responsibilities follows special intelligence service obtain primarily through undercover operations supple-mented necessary open operations economic political industrial financial subversive information special intelligence service obtain information concerning movements organizations individuals whose activities prejudicial interests united states agreement between mid oni fbi coordinating special intelligence operations western hemisphere following sections joint chiefs staff directive functions office strategic services indicate overlap between fbi oss operations secret intelligence office strategic services authorized collect secret intelligence all areas western hemisphere means espionage counter-espionage western hemisphere bases already established office strategic services santiago chile buenos aires argentina used ports exit entry purpose facilitating operations europe asia purpose conducting operations south america office strategic services authorized transient agents europe asia touching points western hemisphere transmit information through facilities military intelligence service office naval intelligence research analysis office strategic services furnish essential intelligence planning execution approved strategic services operations furnish such intelligence requested agencies joint chiefs staff armed services authorized government agencies accomplish foregoing geographical restriction placed research analysis functions office strategic services emphasis supplied jcs directive functions office strategic services jcs continue chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter main ci reader volume chapter national counterintelligence center introduction office naval intelligence oni colepaugh gimpel custodial detention program president roosevelt directive december german espionage ring captured counterintelligence operations fbi wartime operations counter intelligence corps during world war duquesne spy ring george john dasch plan bodyguard garbo operation igor sergeyevich guzenko postwar expansion fbi domestic intelligence federal loyalty-security program fbi-military intelligence jurisdictional agreement security manhattan project ci world war Battered Abused Homeless And Pregnant #0003 first sign german high command intention engage sabotage activities united states disclosed apprehension eight trained german saboteurs special agents federal bureau investigation within two weeks landed country german submarines these eight saboteurs thoroughly trained high command german army most modern methods destruction sent country specific purpose interfering war effort particular emphasis placed interrupting production aluminum magnesium plants one group these saboteurs landed beach amagansett long island night june second group four men landed beach few miles below jacksonville florida june landings these men dispersed various parts united states all federal custody june saboteurs ernest peter burger age george john dasch age herbert hans haupt age edward john kerling age richard quirin age hermann otto neubauer age werner thiel age heinrich harm heinch age all these men born germany one time another spent portion lives united states during time learned english language became acquainted american customs all these men exception burger returned germany outbreak present conflict burger returned germany living united states period six years recruitment saboteurs german saboteurs who sent united states recruited work one lt walter kappe who attached abwehr intelligence german high command charge german sabotage united states addition connection german army kappe also official ausland institute stuttgart germany prior war organization engaged organizing germans abroad nazi party function obtaining through germans living foreign countries various types military economic political similar information kappe lived united states during time took part organizing first nazi organization country chicago known teutonia later one principal organizers officer friends new germany subsequently became german-american bund latter organization kappe press agent charge propaganda editor official bund paper united states fritz kuhn ousted german-american bund result some inner-circle rivalries time kappe returned germany where placed charge american section ausland institute stuttgart germany known periodic meetings held berlin cities throughout germany those germans who formerly lived united states these groups known name comradeship walter kappe one officials charge these meetings believed held purpose keeping up morale these germans because accustomed higher standard living august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:02:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: love and/or terror: PLEASE REGISTER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETICS people: Please think about registering for the event described below. The symposium= =20 should be an eye-opener. The exhibition definitely is one. Charles UAMA NEWS RELEASE LOVE AND/OR TERROR BOOK ARTS EXHIBITION & SYMPOSIUM at the UA MUSEUM OF ART REGISTER by AUGUST 15!!!!! Love and/or Terror: A Book Arts EXHIBITION at the University of Arizona Museum of Art August 3 through September 21, 2003 Triggered by the events of 9/11, fifty contemporary artists respond to the themes of love and/or terror in experimental book form. Love and/or Terror: A Book Arts SYMPOSIUM Symposium opens on Friday, September 12, 2003 with a special print viewing, book signing and lecture by Duane Michals at the Center for Creative Photography. On Saturday, September 13, 2003 from 9am to 4:30pm, the Symposium features keynote speakers Johanna Drucker, Warren Lehrer and Charles Alexander and workshops led by Tucson literary and visual artists Charles Alexander, Judith Golden, Miguel Juarez, Frances Sjoberg, Nancy Solomon, and Karen White. For Love and/or Terror exhibition and symposium info go to www.loveandorterror.arizona.edu. EXHIBITION NEWS Not by the Book Love and/or Terror Exhibition at UA Museum of Art Triggered by current events, the University of Arizona Museum of Art invited fifty artists to respond to the subjects of love and/or terror in the form of a book. These amazing artists=92 book will be= on view at the UA Museum of Art from August 3 =AD September 21, 2003. Artists often assume the role of challenging commercial and conventional forms of expression. The artists in the Love and/or Terror exhibition experiment with our notions of what a book is. These books are made with unexpected materials from handmade papers to feathers and fish scales. They are not standard storybooks sandwiched between covers. There are flipbooks, round books, books that stretch accordion-like for many feet and books that are paperless. There are books without words, and books with one word. There are books that do not open and books that do not end. How these books are made and the stories they tell overlap. There are intricately folded books about love and loss, digitized books about memory and distance, hand-knitted books about the weather in Minnesota, photographic books about biblical text,and flip books about kisses and winks. Visit the UA Museum of Art and spend some time with these artists=92 books that are definitely not by the book! Alisa Z. Shorr Public Information Specialist The University of Arizona Museum of Art P.O. Box 210002 Tucson, AZ 85721 email: azs@u.arizona.edu fax: 520.621-8770 telephone: 520.621-7567 UA Museum of Art website: http://artmuseum.arizona.edu charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:27:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Need Jalal Toufic contact information Comments: cc: yoyolabs@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Brenda Iijima asked that I post this. thanks, David ------- I am hoping to obtain Jalal Toufic's email. Please backchannel, Thanks, Brenda Iijima yoyolabs@hotmail.com -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:20:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: ghazal In-Reply-To: <1A67F435-BD2B-11D7-A398-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii well i guess what i mean by "postromantic" (i really just made that phrase up, i think is those writers who seem unconstrained by conservative strictures of language (what a "line" is, what a "stanza" is, what a "form" is, what a "page" is, what a "poem" is, etc etc) but are still haunted by an attachment to "identity" that seems unaware or unproblematized by (or perhaps *sufficiently unproblematized by*) any theoretical developments in language after 1913 (dated to lovely "Black Square" by Malevich (also haunted I think by the same questions) does that make any sense? i really don't mean to be speaking in tongues. really do want to be making sense. that's part of it too susan howe in midnight: how wonderful it is to hide, horrible to never be found; --- mIEKAL aND wrote: > what's some examples of new postromantic? I havent > a clue what you > mean by that. but then I have cows in my backyard > (almost) & it > wouldnt be surprising if Ive completely missed out > on something. > > mIEKAL > > > > > On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 08:52 AM, Kazim Ali > wrote: > > > > > > > i think wrestling with modernism v new > postromantic > > etc is the heart of my thinking and my poetic > practice > > (of course by no means am i alone in that--Susan > Howe > > is clearest major example I can think the same of) ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:40:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: ghazal In-Reply-To: <20030723222040.98570.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 7/23/03 3:20 PM, Kazim Ali at kaajumiah@YAHOO.COM wrote: > susan howe in midnight: how wonderful it is to hide, > horrible to never be found; Where is this lovely Howe quote "found"? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:14:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kazim, I think Pound is crucial, at least for me anyways. He is my guide in all matters of poetry. I have the same struggle, I think, with, shall we call it, not "new postRomanticism" (but I think I understand what you are saying), but another wave of Romanticism (since what date?) with respect to the "new" Classicism (dare I say language poetry is a new Classicism?), given that Romanticism seems to alternate with Classicism, right? I mean, given my understanding of what Kenner says in The Counterfeiters (a valuable little book of criticism, I believe), Romanticism manifested itself initially (and I'm excluding from this category of Romanticism that period further back, of chansons de gestes or the Song of Roland, whatever you want to call it, or as Graves defines Romanticism in The White Goddess) as a reaction to the industrial age, the Augustan age, during which you have Swift dealing with the empiricism and all that. (Language poetry is not Romantic (unless you take its resemblance to surrealism as making it Romantic) because it embraces the computer and all that the computer implies for language.) Perhaps, you mean that the new Romanticism is reacting to language poetry, whatever that means. I should know what it means, because I took courses in linguistics in grad. school, but I'm not sure why language poets are doing what they are doing except as a way of manipulating language (sentence structure, syntax, even morphology (like Joyce does in Finnegans))in a very sophisticated way, perhaps (given that there are always poseurs who are the "followers of crazes", as Pound referred to the phenomenon). (Is language poetry experimentation for the sake of experimentation, tout court?) I say I'm not sure why, but I think I know how they are doing what they are doing. My lead on this was Spicer, and then I read Silliman's essay on Spicer, who obviously he claims as a precursor of language poetry, though he is not the sole. (There is Ashbery, who embodies clearly the Latin dictum, ut poesis ut pictura, and got his inspiration from the French, especially Raymond Roussel and his Impressions d'Afrique. And, I'm not sure that language poetry is all that different from surrealism which I think is suspect, especially after reading Spicer's line that surrealism is the business of poets who cannot benefit from it. In other words, it's a dead end (or a means to something else), as far as I'm concerned, though I think there is no doubt Charles Henri Ford has written some beautiful poetry, to mention just one American surrealist. In other words, just as surrealism had an agenda, language poetry has an agenda, but I get lost in all the theorizing, which I enjoy just as much as I enjoy reading about modern art (Duchamp especially). In short, I think you mean that the new post Romanticism is not concerned with form and stanzas and technique so much because it is in reaction to all the concern of not following a form that language poetry touts as not being concerned with, but which it paradoxicly is highly concerned with, because when all is said and done, all that the content is, in language poetry, is the form of formlessness. In other words, the dictum form is but an extension of content has become no poetic content or substance at all (no duende or ghazal spirit), which leaves one with all form as in a painting or picture. I hope that makes sense. But, I'm rambling. My original intention was to write about Pound in this message to you. Matt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:21:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII as long as i continue writing, i am still alive. every word i write is proof of my existence. i have not contracted with anyone else to write me. to write me would be to write my existence. to write to me would be to await a portent. portents stop before existence stops. the imminent before death is that of the sign. the sign wavers, exhausts itself, and is gone. these are signs i am writing, these are signs. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:21:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Elizabeth Sprague Subject: West End Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable W e s t E n d R e a d i n g S e r i e s ITHACA, NY 7/26/03 Poets Fred Muratori, Dawn Fewkes & Joshua Corey read from their work. Fred Muratori has published poetry in numerous journals and anthologies, = including New American Writing, LIT, Denver Quarterly, Talisman, Best = American Poetry, Poetry International, The Best of the Prose Poem, and = others. His poetry collections are Despite Repeated Warnings, and The = Possible, a chapbook. He reviews poetry regularly for American Book = Review, Boston Review, Electronic Poetry Review, Rain Taxi, and Library = Journal. He works at the Cornell University Library, where he is = Bibliographer for Anglo-American and Comparative Literature. Dawn Gagne Fewkes has published poetry and short fiction in Confluence = and her work has been chosen for master classes with Jean Valentine, = Dorianne Laux, Joan Larkin and Kim Addonizio. She earned her MFA in = writing from Goddard College in Vermont. She is currently at work on a = manuscript of poems entitled Bag Lunch at the Met. She teaches at = Corning Community College in Corning, NY. Joshua Corey lives in Ithaca where he is working toward a PhD in English = at Cornell. His first book, Selah, will be published this September by = Barrow Street Press, and his poems have appeared in Fence, VOLT, Boston = Review, Conduit, New American Writing, slope, and other journals. The West End Reading Series is held at Gimme! Coffee, 506 W. State = Street, Ithaca, NY at 7 pm on Saturday, July 26, 2003. This event is free and open to all. For more information go to = www.slyfox.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:27:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: ghazal In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i'm not 100% that is the exact quote; but it is the final line of the section that takes place in the houghton library, located near the middle of the book, called--i think--"overlook" --- Stephen Vincent wrote: > on 7/23/03 3:20 PM, Kazim Ali at kaajumiah@YAHOO.COM > wrote: > > > susan howe in midnight: how wonderful it is to > hide, > > horrible to never be found; > > Where is this lovely Howe quote "found"? ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:40:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Sky three. Comments: cc: 7-11 7-11 <7-11@mail.ljudmila.org>, "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 3. Within anomie, notice in a way of seeing cat slinks from the back of the sofa crying. She says hear me hear me, into placements of water. With the fucking war in the back of his throat, cooling all movement, your amigo gone, and yet still at every edge of every finger I feel her. That summer the crisis greens the leaves. Anenome in the dark, amid the barks of howls. The summer's quietude rubbing her hair. ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:09:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: worthless sardines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Luna animated musicians blank screen blank screen order me a McResponsibility a fragile coke guardian to sleep target the boomers machine suits keep business along parental structures fear of minivans keeps grids rigid call it "pleasure" call it pleasure Husky Jerk Suspending Uor TP fun gum ELLO clew chump for corona Meow, eaves clough author hue modern hook run splint fern a captured relic plummets I'm plicated St elementary Mall Level 3: all glass wow, just like an aquarium. End of file. Form 22L: scene change Leather and lace a chase scene between me and you purses lips container initiate the hard suit shoulderless heads your armband take my hand away cuffs and sleeves to date a managed affair with sideburns scary face computer screen monitors you wear watch each patient when binary code goes capital I'll bring the cordial how do you love a profit machine? My car for your klingdom [interlude] guitar solos vs. bank accounts don't walk out on me again. Teeth Compound my daily interest, baby. wrench ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:02:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: one more ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nothing should follow the unforgettably affecting poem of grief for his beloved Reetika's loss - although I never knew of her, that ghazal's emotion stays with me. Nonetheless, on this "deadline" day I offer a very different try--may wry humor belong in the esthetic? GHAZAL ON A DAY OF MEDICAL FAST Fasting empties the brain as well as the stomach. Hunger for eclipsed names impels as the stomach. Gold hoops of navel rings bobble along 5th Avenue, hip-slung jeans chiming la belle as the stomach. The waist of my prom gown refuses the zipper. What organ expands as many cells as the stomach? Two frat brothers, portly after decades, connect via belt buckle--hail/farewells at the stomach. Once upon a skyscraper summit, Diana poised with bow-- each quivering muscle show-and-tell as the stomach. Thanks to all on this thread, Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:38:50 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Stanton Subject: Blong Poems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In reply to mIEKAL's query about Blong (long, blog) poems, my own experience of writing Copy (findable at www.sonofissue.blogspot.com) is that the major difference is being able to 'publish' straightaway, which is both a good thing (your work is 'out there' instantly) and a bad thing (your work is 'out there' instantly). I try to post daily, so the obsessive rewriting that might accompany any other long work goes by the wayside (I'm not sure myself whether Copy IS a long poem, or simply a string of shorter ones, or how long I'm going to keep writing it - I try to regard the ongoingness as part of the process). I'm not enough of a technophile to make full use of the blogger format (unlike, say, the lovely photos on the M.A.D. site - congrats to Michael, by the way, for turning 92), so I'll leave the issue of whether 'blong' represents a new form to others better qualified. As for audience, I have no idea if anyone actually reads Copy, which in itself is strangely appealing: sending stuff off into the void like messages in bottles.... All the best, Rob > >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:39:23 -0500 >From: mIEKAL aND >Subject: Re: M.A.D. at 90 plus photos > >m: > >the idea of logging an extended poem series with the use of a blog >strikes me as being a kind of form in itself, in some ways the process >& technology of writing a long poem that way lays down a footprint of >what the poem will become. making the poem dependent on a very >specific piece of software, a particular way of entering the text, a >very specific audience, etc. so I wonder if it feels different to be >writing a poem that way. & wondering if there are other poems that are >happen that way.... > > >mIEKAL > >& these are known as Blong Poems? ... portmanteau of blog + long... > > >On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 09:06 AM, mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU >wrote: > > > Howdy folks, > > > > Just letting you know that my serial work "My Angie Dickinson" now > > stands at 90 > > poems - and that my mystery webmeister has, to my surprise and > > delight, added > > dozens of new photos (almost one to a poem), stranger by the minute. > > > > http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com > > > > -m. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:02:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Blissful Afterlife Obviation #0001 - #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Blissful Afterlife Obviation #0001 - #0003 equipment|||||production|||||test|||||criteria||||| these|||||criteria|||||same|||||criteria|||||used|| ||| persons|||||residing|||||different|||||towns|||||st ate|||||many|||||different|||||health||||| risks|||||operating|||||soviet- designed|||||nuclear|||||power|||||reactors|||||ano ther||||| protect|||||others|||||harm|||||expect|||||limited| ||||resources|||||training|||||equipment||||| myself|||||testified|||||need|||||strengthening|||| |public|||||health|||||services|||||following||||| forests|||||indiscriminate|||||cutting|||||trees||| |lumber|||||clear|||||land|||||agricultural||||| nuclear-weapon- free|||||zone|||||treaty||||||||||||||nuke|||||arms |||||control||||||||||||||(please|||||wait|||||whil e|||||(please|||||wait|||||while|||||(please|||||wa it|||||while|||||(please|||||wait|||||while|||||ind exinginginging||||| proteins||||polymers|||||make|||||up|||||bacterial| ||||cell|||||another|||||method||||classifies||||| african|||||nuclear-weapon- free|||||zone|||||aware|||||iaea|||||general|||||co nference||||| along|||||path|||||toward|||||economic|||||recovery |||||democratic|||||stability||||least|||||two||||| radars|||||command|||||control|||||command|||||cont rol|||||booster|||||launch|||||everything|||||well| |||| type|||||wholesale|||||surveillance|||||gas|||||mas k|||||canisters|||||issues|||||shelf|||||life||||| investigation|||||analysis|||||statistical|||||data |||||standard||||deviation|||||set||||| peoples|||||liberation|||||army|||||raise|||||billi ons|||||dollars|||||untied|||||loans|||||through||| || greenhouse|||||gas|||||water|||||vapor|||||reaches| |||atmosphere|||||through|||||evaporation||||| response|||||focus|||||areas|||||connecticut|||||de partment|||||public|||||health|||||applying||||| most|||||operated|||||managed||||electronically|||| |high-performance|||||automobiles||||| signature|||||agreement|||||parties|||||shall|||||e nter|||||consultations|||||participants||||| plants|||||addition||||drastic|||||population|||||g rowth|||||following|||| country|||||obtained|||||operating|||||export|||||l icensing|||||systems|||||intended|||||prevent||||| local|||||state|||||emergency|||||command|||||cente rs|||||order|||||provide|||||effective||||| questions||||require|||||more|||||simplified|||||pr o-life|||||pro-choice||||rhetoric||||| school||||officials|||||united|||||states|||||medic al|||||schools|||||those|||||award|||||doctor||||| cruise|||||missile|||||jane|||||missiles|||||rocket s|||||october|||||search|||||real|||||sagarika||||| jane||||| Blissful Afterlife Obviation #0002 education|||||preparation|||||career|||||physician| |||long|||||demanding|||||usually|||||takes||||| origins|||||anthropology|||||suspension|||||bridge| ||||wind|||||tunnel|||||computer-aided||||| industries|||||daunting|||||well|||||know|||||enorm ous|||||currency|||||building|||||well|||| air|||||pollution|||||became|||||major|||||problem| |||early|||||british|||||author|||||founding||||| affairs|||||united|||||states|||||senate|||||april| ||||great|||||privilege|||||opportunity|||||appear| |||| objects|||||event|||||signs|||||interference|||||th ese|||||systems|||||related|||||communications||||| appropriate|||||type|||||commander|||||involve||||| additional|||||unit|||||training|||||cbr-d||||| recommendations|||||reported|||||product|||||manage r-soldier|||||equipment|||||concurrence||||| reaction|||||results|||||continuous||||release||||| nuclear|||||energy|||||naturally||||| sure|||||send|||||people|||||streets||||control|||| |majles|||||mandate|||||change|||||reformists||||| because|||||public|||||policy|||||debate|||||most|| |||vocal||||pro-choice|||||pro- life|||||champions||||| emergencies|||||governor|||||responsible|||||restor ation|||||normalcy|||||citizens|||||state||||| clone|||||usually|||||members|||||clone|||||identic al|||||inherited|||||characteristics||||genes||||| nucleons|||||protons|||||neutrons|||||contains||||| atomic||||number|||||number|||||positively||||| behavior|||||setting|||||united|||||states|||||chin a|||||collision|||||course|||||house|||||armed||||| asymmetrical|||||threats|||||impetus|||||improve||| ||operational|||||readiness|||||warfighting||||| save|||||up||||contributed|||||ching- wu|||||chu|||||||||anderson|||||professor|||||physi cs||||| using|||||bathroom|||||return||||home|||||care||||| themselves|||||often|||||help|||||family||||| justice|||||department|||||defense|||||agreed|||||n accho|||||take|||||opportunity|||||petition||||| one|||||first|||||sets|||||these|||||instructions|| |||special|||||program||||called|||||operating||||| entry|||||force|||||treaty|||||modification|||||ame ndment|||||thereto|||||deposit|||||instruments||||| confidential|||||business|||||information|||||manag ed-access|||||techniques|||||costs||||| used|||||attain|||||supercritical|||||assembly||||| chain||||reaction|||||proceeds|||||millionth||||| joined|||||npt|||||mid|||||april|||||un|||||oau|||| |experts|||||group|||||convened|||||begin|||||draft ing||||| interval|||||ranges|||||areas|||||proportional||||| frequencies|||||polygon|||||drawn||||| characteristic|||||temperature|||||plays|||||import ant|||||role|||||making|||||rapid||||fusion||||| inspirations||||greatest|||||achievements|||||scien tists|||||younger|||||readers|||||shearer||||| explicit|||||target|||||wa|||||members|||||committe d|||||dealing|||||firmly|||||states|||||whose||||| areas|||||competing||||fewer|||||jobs|||||rural|||| |population|||||risen|||||sharply|||||new|||| separated|||||thin|||||insulating|||||layer||||magn etic|||||electric|||||field|||||effect|||||known||| || ballistic|||||missiles|||||related|||||technology|| |||long-standing|||||recipients|||||such||||| solid|||||waste|||||produced|||||united|||||states| ||||now|||||recycled|||||composted|||||recycling||| | shall|||||constitute|||||basis|||||asserting|||||su pporting|||||denying|||||claim|||||territorial||||| causing|||||organisms|||||radioactive|||||materials |||||affect|||||plant|||||animal|||||life||||| central||||point|||||number|||||called|||||measure| ||||central|||||tendency|||||let||||tabulated||||| variety|||||testing|||||performed|||||throughout||| ||life|||||cycle|||||protective|||||masks|||||first ||||| keep|||||items|||||hands|||||unreliable|||||parties |||||practical|||||means|||||legal|||||basis|||||so me||||| widely|||||accepted|||||current|||||administration| ||||policy|||||reinforcing|||||china||||| supportive|||||more|||||extensive|||||department||| ||defense|||||use|||||licensing|||||exemptions||||| distinct|||||profession|||||state|||||level|||||ser ved|||||former|||||attorney|||||general||||| made|||||available|||||young|||||women||||who|||||c hoose|||||involve|||||parents|||||court|||||stated| |||| adhering|||||cwc|||||obliged|||||ensure|||||nationa l|||||activities|||||support|||||goal|||||world|||| Blissful Afterlife Obviation #0003 appropriate|||||iraq|||||buildup|||||arms|||||gulf| ||||war|||||demonstrated|||||need|||||some|||||form ||||| united|||||states|||||between|||||two|||||companies |||||owned|||||natural|||||gas|||||pipeline|||||ken neth||||| type|||||aggressive|||||readiness|||||testing|||||f ield|||||both|||||fit|||||condition|||||help|||||tr oops||||| american|||||seminar|||||hosted|||||argentina|||||e xpressed|||||continued|||||support||||| micro- organisms|||||genetic|||||elements|||||contain||||| nucleic|||||acid|||||sequences||||| revolution|||||also|||||considerable|||||impact|||| |nature|||||work|||||significantly|||||changed||||| antibiotics|||||affect|||||human|||||cells|||||beca use|||||human|||||cells|||||cell|||||walls|||||many ||||| procedures|||||mask|||||maintenance|||||inspection| ||||during|||||initial|||||refresher||||| states|||||china|||||once|||||enjoyed|||||increase| ||||risk|||||military|||||confrontation||||| program|||||popular|||||operating||||systems|||||su ch|||||microsoft|||||windows|||||macintosh||||| streptococci|||||staphylococci|||||some|||||gram- negative||||bacteria|||||such||||| workers||||also|||||labor|||||many|||||hours|||||of ten|||||more|||||hours|||||day|||||sometimes||||mor e||||| explosive|||||devices|||||party|||||undertakes||||| test|||||nuclear|||||explosive|||||device||||| increases|||||percent|||||week|||||pregnancy|||||we eks|||||variety|||||drug-based|||||abortion||||| criminal|||||codes|||||distinguish|||||between||||| two|||||degrees||||murder|||||many|||||five||||| fusion|||||weapons|||||print|||||section|||||even|| |||first|||||atomic|||||bomb|||||developed||||| promoting|||||absorption|||||excess|||||neutrons||| ||fertile||||material|||||several|||||breeder||||| example|||||early|||||studies|||||growth|||||popula tions|||||future|||||change|||||size|||||population ||||| escape||||nearly|||||people|||||died|||||presumed|| |||dead|||||result|||||terrorist|||||attack||||| people|||||who|||||knew|||||build|||||run|||||centu ry|||||britain|||||new|||||production|||||methods|| ||| activities|||||laboratory|||||capacity|||||biologic |||||agents|||||health|||||alert|||||network||||| |||||advanced|||||age|||||chronic|||||illness|||||s tay|||||nursing|||||home|||||united|||||states||||| nursing||||| vientiane|||||temperatures|||||vary|||||help||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||greenhouse|||||effect|||||type s|||||greenhouse||||| memorandum|||||understanding|||||between|||||govern ment|||||union|||||soviet|||||socialist||||| million|||||metric|||||tons||||percent|||||chemical |||||industry|||||use|||||storage||||| stepping|||||outside|||||debate|||||search|||||comm on|||||ground|||||many|||||people|||||hope|||| species|||||bacteria|||||cell|||||wall|||||consists ||||primarily|||||thick|||||layer||||| laboratory|||||technically|||||prepared|||||provide |||||much|||||laboratory|||||support|||||needed|||| | section|||||arms|||||export|||||control|||||act|||| |aeca|||||defense|||||trade|||||authorized|||||dtc| |||| created|||||device|||||known|||||flying|||||shuttle |||||partially|||||mechanized|||||process|||| international|||||atomic|||||energy|||||agency||||| iaea|||||amended|||||time|||||time|||||iaea|||||art icle||||| police|||||departments|||||first|||||responders|||| |personal|||||protection|||||equipment|||||time|||| | time|||||approve|||||transfer|||||weapons|||||syste m|||||must|||||confident|||||transfer|||||strikes|| ||| million|||||third- |||||quarter|||||loss|||||billion|||||reduction|||| |shareholder|||||equity|||| measurements|||||especially|||||percent|||||planeta ry|||||surface|||||ocean|||||water||||| program|||||briefings|||||countries|||||participati ng|||||paris|||||consultations|||||further||||| chain|||||reaction|||||just|||||self- sustaining|||||during|||||operation|||||even|||||sh utdown||||| august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:14:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: COME HEAR LAURA SMITH READ BEFORE SHE MOVES TO AUSTIN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laura has three readings coming up before she moves, check out the going away readings webpage: COME HEAR LAURA SMITH READ BEFORE SHE MOVES TO AUSTIN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:51:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: PHILLY SOUND: New Poetry Weekend * * * * * * * * * * * * * MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit come on take it all in PHILLY SOUND: New Poetry Weekend ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:05:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Kiely, Kirschenbaum Need Your Help Comments: cc: editor@boogcity.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, As many of you might now, the Allen Lomax archive has recently shut down, causing the poet Aaron Kiely to lose his job as a photo archivist. (Poet-artist Tracey McTague was also let go during the closing.) Aaron asked me to let everyone know that he is looking for work, ANY work. Long-term is cool, but there is also an urgent need for immediate cash work. This all being said, yours truly, David Kirschenbaum, is still unemployed and in need of work, so you can apply all the above to me as well. You can email boogcityny@aol.com or editor@boogcity.com, or call (212) 842-2664. I will forward any missives or messages directed to Aaron to him. (If you have his aaron7k@hotmail.com e-dress he's asked that you not use it for now as he is trying to keep this strictly as a looking for work account.) Thanks for your help. as ever, David ------ David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:18:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: thrash down In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thrash down =46rom To: CC: 6A L0c0 CC 0k6A L0c0: taglines CC:: went to take // CC: + Help STOP SPAM with the new end 6AL0c0:=20 thrash CC: ::::: thrash CC: D Gd 0n ?A?C??????=A9?=AF?Patsca Boohoo 0nreenf 0ncit CC: D G 0nvzc6A.0nCrim 0nn6A.0ntriclo 0nMroly .CC: ?A?C??????=A9?=AF?A.llered: 4A.T\6A.4A. 0nry[6A.0ntitous .CC: ....Patsca Botohoo 0nreenf 0ncit ct L8 r r r r r r e>=3D CC: #11 CC: + SP. except scepter except scepter except for sex for sect=20 specific ic taught to creak to take to ticket to take to taught to tion=20= tion to guard to rail to CC: r elate nonesuchdotophotmailmystery CC: + went to guard rail road creak CC: knobbed 0nMroly 0nbjec 0nc4A.t\6A.4A /0nzurotmail 0ocom 0nreenf=20 0ncit 0nN / 0s CC: Botohoo CC: #14A.0nv6A"CC 06A.0d0K0~0H0 : taglinesCC:: spc spice specif spy spit fict fist tip sipt sept except=20= for sex for sex for sex for sex for sect specific CC: thrash down: D =46rom To: CC: 6A L0c0 CC 0k6A L0c0: taglines CC:: went to take // CC: + Help STOP SPAM with the new end 6AL0c0:=20 thrash CC: ::::: thrash CC: D Gd 0n ?A?C??????=A9?=AF?Patsca Boohoo 0nreenf 0ncit CC: D G 0nvzc6A.0nCrim 0nn6A.0ntriclo 0nMroly .CC: ?A?C??????=A9?=AF?A.llered: 4A.T\6A.4A. 0nry[6A.0ntitous .CC: ....Patsca Botohoo 0nreenf 0ncit ct L8 r r r r r r e>=3D CC: #11 CC: + SP. except scepter except scepter except for sex for sect=20 specific ic taught to creak to take to ticket to take to taught to tion=20= tion to guard to rail to CC: r elate nonesuchdotophotmailmystery CC: + went to guard rail road creak CC: knobbed 0nMroly 0nbjec 0nc4A.t\6A.4A /0nzurotmail 0ocom 0nreenf=20 0ncit 0nN / 0s CC: Botohoo CC: #14A.0nv6A"CC 06A.0d0K0~0H0 : taglinesCC:: spc spice specif spy spit fict fist tip sipt sept except=20= for sex for sex for sex for sex for sect specific CC: thrash down: D =46rom To: CC: 6A L0c0 CC 0k6A L0c0: taglines CC:: went to take // CC: + Help STOP SPAM with the new end 6AL0c0:=20 thrash CC: ::::: thrash CC: D Gd 0n ?A?C??????=A9?=AF?Patsca Boohoo 0nreenf 0ncit CC: D G 0nvzc6A.0nCrim 0nn6A.0ntriclo 0nMroly .CC: ?A?C??????=A9?=AF?A.llered: 4A.T\6A.4A. 0nry[6A.0ntitous .CC: ....Patsca Botohoo 0nreenf 0ncit ct L8 r r r r r r e>=3D CC: #11 CC: + SP. except scepter except scepter except for sex for sect=20 specific ic taught to creak to take to ticket to take to taught to tion=20= tion to guard to rail to CC: r elate nonesuchdotophotmailmystery CC: + went to guard rail road creak CC: knobbed 0nMroly 0nbjec 0nc4A.t\6A.4A /0nzurotmail 0ocom 0nreenf=20 0ncit 0nN / 0s CC: Botohoo CC: #14A.0nv6A"CC 06A.0d0K0~0H0 : taglinesCC:: spc spice specif spy spit fict fist tip sipt sept except=20= for sex for sex for sex for sex for sect specific CC: thrash down: D=20= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Belly Pharaoh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed (fûrn), worm (un´yun) to (met) we (Ap), (gö´tu) (fing´gur), sang (akt), sheen (klIm) (ôr´bit), (bOOt), (rich) twins is zipper, man (boi), (tôNb) fire (hot), rich singing (get), tight vest (I), (sô) eve (ej) dock (chin), (fä´ður), trivial (E´zulE) cannon oh (pIp), (bod´E) (kan´un), (dis-här´tun) cough chin on cook king (sang), back (sum) (mir´ur) soggy circus Oh! (kûrl), (fôl), flood (pyoor) (hwEl) road onion ð (root), end (lit´ul), hammer sure (but) sank loose (tIt), talked ô jam (bet´ur), (bAst) (grO) (pil), grow (sted´E), (fAz), girl (hach´ut), (jam), (fä´ður) et û (hwich) (yOO), finger new (it), to (klEr) (lA´dE), thin iron (tredz) (shOOr), me (tôkt) wax see bat (O´vur), coward (kou´urd) (waks), boot (gûrl) body out father hot hope (bat) full pleasure phrase curl baste happy (sO), ease sad hatchet, pharaoh (zip´ur), ape saw met (kôf) shall (pool) pill winner (kâr) nation (triv´Eul) (sing´ing), (kär´puntur) (nOn), verge air royal item (Ez) which bigger tackle mirror (kook) little (kab) (fat), pipe (roi´ul) (sO´fu), bath (ðen), drew her eye (drOO), true (Ev), such steady labor (bak), (twinz), dearth (lA´bur), (noo) kit orbit climb 1 belly rouge (hOp), appeared (kit), lady (dA) crowd (sad) sofa (oil), ginger clear cite in father (lOOz) (jin´jur), some (thin), (sangk) (hap´E) (rOOzh) (bath) (hand), over (Ev) (fAl), (kroud), (sûr´kus) raven (foot) I easy (tak´ul), (bAð) shd known but (sE) fail bathe u r (Woolf) put (flud), (hol´E), Hole (ärt), (wûrm) (shal), (man), â bit (hou) (nA´shun) buyer edge (dok), (âr), then b oil (I´tum), (upErd´) carpenter (end), (sIt), (big´ur), (I´urn), (bI´ur) i wolf m O (plezh´ur) pure ä fern angry boy fall (vest), (ham´ur), (out) (win´ur) cab wheel eve better get ahead (rOd), you care art tag hand (uhed´) trOO) (tag) day treads act now O (hijem´unE, hE–, hej´umO"nE, heg´u–) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:40:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Sky. Is four. Comments: To: wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 4. Wipe your feet of me on the way to your bliss. Sleeping in London with yourself leaves me as mute as winter trees. Remember to wash your hands in the dazzle of all you see. I'll unblot from your skin in time, in time I'll be a vanishing trace of your mind. That's what it's like losing your shadow: to walk across a sunlit parkinglot balancing clouds on your head on your way to the village pregnant with water. Nothing in you whispers about the earth. None of us sacred. ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:48:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: We Kill Two Brothers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We Kill Two Brothers We kill two brothers (it is a happy day) We Take Their Bodies We take their bodies (and we put them on TV) We Kill Two Brothers We kill two brothers (it is a happy day) We Take Their Bodies We take their bodies (and we put them on TV) -- all together now -- We Kill Two Brothers We kill two brothers (it is a happy day) We Take Their Bodies We take their bodies (and we put them on TV) We Kill Two Brothers We kill two brothers (it is a happy day) We Take Their Bodies We take their bodies (and we put them on TV) Peace, Brennen http://members.cox.net/blukas/frames_index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:49:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: parks again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Robert Smithson was very intrigued by Olmsted and wrote a piece on him and also a very good one on Central Park as it existed in the Sixties, contrasting contemporary photos with ones from Olmsted's time. In one of the Olmsted parks here in Milwaukee, the diaries of Arthur Bremer (the man who stalked Nixon and then shot George Wallace) were found. They formed one of the bases for the film TAXI DRIVER. An interesting twist on park literature--hidden documents! Olmsted had a vision of the park as creating a democratic space, where people of all classes would mingle, and the new immigrant learn more of the American experience, as well as being accepted into it. Henry James writes very interestingly of this, from a turn-of-the 19th/20th century point of view in THE AMERICAN SCENE. Reading again Hamsun's HUNGER and Strindberg's INFERNO, struck as always with what a large role parks play in so many modernist works of alienation. Approrpriately--Colin Wilson lived in Hyde Park while writing THE OUTSIDER. At various times of homelessness in various cities in USA and abroad--parks always a place to inhabit, meet people, read and write, eat and sleep--and endeavor to avoid police-- The Olmsted parks here are very beautiful and know many of their denizons--people who have set out to live in them-- Good places to write and make rubbings from various sites--and read poetry aloud to trees and passersby-- or shout sound poems in direction of Lake Michigan-- In the first decades of the 19th Century in many American cities, cemetieries were thought of and created to be another form of park, as well as an intermediate zone between the overcrowded cities and the new suburbs. The cemetery/park (the city cemeteries had grown too full to allow for further "inhabitants") was thought to be an uplifting place morally and spiritually--one could meditate on eternity and other "timeless subjects" for example--and as well take in plenty of fresh healthy air and walk among flowers, statues, towers and tombs. An excellent example is Mount Auburn Cemetry, which links Cambridge, MA with Watertown and has lovely winding paths and roads, a myriad of forms of scultuprual and architectural styles of gravestones, tombsand vaults, a tower from which to view the surrounding area atop a hill, and quite a variety of flora, exotic and local. Mary Baker Eddy is ensconced there in a vault which contains a telephone. You can try giving her a call. I have tried numerous times and never received an answer. Who knows--perhaps you may! onwo/ards! david baptiste >From: Michael Rothenberg >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: parks again >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:09 -0400 > >also note: Every Day, the book of poems by Philip Whalen is >'Respectfully dedicated to the memory of John McClaren 1846-1943 Builder of >Golden Gate Park" > >MR > > >Michael Rothenberg >walterblue@bigbridge.org >Big Bridge >www.bigbridge.org _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:22:27 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: arts job in NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There is an Asian American woman who was working at New York Foundation for the arts in NYC (it's a state-wide agency which is now headquartered in NYC), and she said she is leaving her job on August 21. The position will be open, and they are taking resumes for it right now. There is information at http://www.nyfa.org This is a state-run agency that runs various funding schemes for twenty or more different disciplines in the arts. The young woman Aimee Lee looked no more than about 24. She was giving advice on how to apply for grants having to do with urbanism and the arts. Her phone number is 212-366-6900 ext. 216, and her email address is alee@nyfa.org Good luck. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:39:26 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: ghazal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To write a ghazal is to invite love and beauty to enter your life. It's autotelic -- a reward in itself. They are like prayers on the wings of doves. After midnight tonight I have proposed that everyone cease to post ghazals, but I have not outlawed commentary on them. So far we are getting a lot of ghazals but not much appreciation for them or commentary. Commentary is also important! After midnight let's begin a discussion of the ghazals we've seen, and perhaps some tentative discussion of their merits. Personally, I don't think they make any sense at all in English. They are like orchids, yes, but what good is an orchid? In the humanities today everything turns on economic determinism. What good is an orchid in this climate? Did anybody read the ghazals? I liked them, but some were very abstract, and others just simply political. I liked the one by Harriet Zinnes best, but I can't say why, exactly. It was the first one sent in. I was excited by that, and by the language that was both passionate and precise. I liked the political ones, but I am just so tired of politics, as I feel it is just a pose. There are those who say let a hundred ghazals bloom! But I say, why, if nobody is going to appreciate them, or comment on them? So what I say is: Let a hundred Harold Blooms flower as we near the deadline. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:25:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: We Kill Two Brothers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Whether demonized or deified or both, no matter how many times we kill our monsters they keep coming back for more. Not just Dracula but all monsters are undead. Maybe they keep coming back because they still have something to say or show us about our world and ourselves." T.K. Beal, "Religion and Its Monsters." New York, 2002. p.10. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brennen Lukas" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:48 AM Subject: We Kill Two Brothers > We Kill Two Brothers > > We kill two brothers > (it is a happy day) > > We Take Their Bodies > > We take their bodies > (and we put them on TV) > > We Kill Two Brothers > > We kill two brothers > (it is a happy day) > > We Take Their Bodies > > We take their bodies > (and we put them on TV) > > -- all together now -- > > We Kill Two Brothers > > We kill two brothers > (it is a happy day) > > We Take Their Bodies > > We take their bodies > (and we put them on TV) > > We Kill Two Brothers > > We kill two brothers > (it is a happy day) > > We Take Their Bodies > > We take their bodies > (and we put them on TV) > > Peace, > Brennen > http://members.cox.net/blukas/frames_index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:35:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "It is true that some people look upon such woods merely as troublesome encumbrance standing in the way of profitable use of the land, but future generations will not feel so and will bless the men who were wise enough to get such woods preserved. Future generations, however, will be likely to appreciate the wild beauty and the grandeur of the tall fir trees in this forest park...it's deep, shady ravines and bold view-commanding spurs, far more than the majority of citizens of today, many of whom are familiar with similar original woods. But such primal woods will become as rare about Portland as they now are about Boston. If these woods are preserved, they will surely come to be regarded as marvelously beautiful." John Charles Olmstead and Frederick Law Olmstead, Jr., "Report of the Park Board." Portland, Oregon, 1903. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Chirot" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:49 AM Subject: Re: parks again > Robert Smithson was very intrigued by Olmsted and wrote a piece on him and > also a very good one on Central Park as it existed in the Sixties, > contrasting contemporary photos with ones from Olmsted's time. > In one of the Olmsted parks here in Milwaukee, the diaries of Arthur Bremer > (the man who stalked Nixon and then shot George Wallace) were found. They > formed one of the bases for the film TAXI DRIVER. > An interesting twist on park literature--hidden documents! > Olmsted had a vision of the park as creating a democratic space, where > people of all classes would mingle, and the new immigrant learn more of the > American experience, as well as being accepted into it. > Henry James writes very interestingly of this, from a turn-of-the 19th/20th > century point of view in THE AMERICAN SCENE. > Reading again Hamsun's HUNGER and Strindberg's INFERNO, struck as always > with what a large role parks play in so many modernist works of alienation. > Approrpriately--Colin Wilson lived in Hyde Park while writing THE OUTSIDER. > At various times of homelessness in various cities in USA and abroad--parks > always a place to inhabit, meet people, read and write, eat and sleep--and > endeavor to avoid police-- > The Olmsted parks here are very beautiful and know many of their > denizons--people who have set out to live in them-- > Good places to write and make rubbings from various sites--and read poetry > aloud to trees and passersby-- > or shout sound poems in direction of Lake Michigan-- > In the first decades of the 19th Century in many American cities, > cemetieries were thought of and created to be another form of park, as well > as an intermediate zone between the overcrowded cities and the new suburbs. > The cemetery/park (the city cemeteries had grown too full to allow for > further "inhabitants") was thought to be an uplifting place morally and > spiritually--one could meditate on eternity and other "timeless subjects" > for example--and as well take in plenty of fresh healthy air and walk among > flowers, statues, towers and tombs. > An excellent example is Mount Auburn Cemetry, which links Cambridge, MA with > Watertown and has lovely winding paths and roads, a myriad of forms of > scultuprual and architectural styles of gravestones, tombsand vaults, a > tower from which to view the surrounding area atop a hill, and quite a > variety of flora, exotic and local. > Mary Baker Eddy is ensconced there in a vault which contains a telephone. > You can try giving her a call. I have tried numerous times and never > received an answer. > Who knows--perhaps you may! > onwo/ards! > david baptiste > > >From: Michael Rothenberg > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: parks again > >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:09 -0400 > > > >also note: Every Day, the book of poems by Philip Whalen is > >'Respectfully dedicated to the memory of John McClaren 1846-1943 Builder of > >Golden Gate Park" > > > >MR > > > > > >Michael Rothenberg > >walterblue@bigbridge.org > >Big Bridge > >www.bigbridge.org > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:38:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Etats Genereaux de la Philosophie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Etats Genereaux de la Philosophie Magnificent Philosophy! Can it be that such a self-consistent, Magnificent! philosophy is the figment of the imaginations of a number of misguided morons? true Leviathan is both a Magnificent! literary achievement and the greatest work of political philosophy in the English language. Permanently true 13k jollyrogermail] [Shakespearean Greetings] [nantucketnavy.com][hatteraslight.com][Classicgreetings.com] PHILOSOPHY Re: magnificent: Discussion Deck. true Alice Bailey Djwhal Khul - Esoteric Philosophy - Master Index - MAGNIFICENT. magnificence, MAGNIFICENT magnificently. true journals with Internet sites. There is also a Magnificent! set of links to philosophy departments' web sites. Well how could such a Magnificent! genius bow to the labors of life; give up his authority over his creation to a boss or a capricious customer that likes to be ridden, that presents a magnificent sight, that training | clinics | exhibitions | show about us ? | philosophy! | library! | photo! Perhaps we can solve this by explaining - by communicating - to others our Magnificent! philosophy, by telling potential Lions what the nucleus of Lions Clubs true Philosophy by Aldous Huxley Publisher Comments Both an anthology and an interpretation of the supreme mystics, East and West. . . . A Magnificent! true challenge to philosophy presents a Magnificent! opportunity to strike out in a new direction. true philosophy philosophy Magnificent! philosophy at Thu Jul 24 17:28:40 2003 ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:45:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Evil Dead Violent Brothers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Evil Dead Violent Brothers There are evil people in all groups and communities and people also and people of a dead level mediocrity true comedy miles removed from the dark, violent content of Their fan base growing, the brothers went on to make true considerable critical acclaim and established the brothers as fresh miles removed from the dark, violent content of true Dead considerable critical acclaim and established the brothers as fresh miles removed from the dark, violent content of true l 13k of Darkness, ditto with the more violent Evil Dead 2: Dead the first 20 minutes of by Dawn, Evil Dead 2: Dead by Dawn vampire after attending masquerade at evil-infested manse. Snapshot: Graphically violent, offbeat cult true However, this violent, darkly comic, character driven thriller has a A Simple Plan shows how evil can be created the plane they discover the dead pilot, and a true brothers film, a back and ready to rumble, throwing violent and comedic A loose sequel to the first two Evil Dead movies, this Violent im/amoral style fest that The Evil Dead horror, frequently dull - find images of an extremely graphic and violent nature on US ve seen this side of the brothers, the premise true evil dead violent brothers at Thu Jul 24 17:40:39 2003 ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:09:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Armstrong Subject: Wegway Juried Show at SPIN Gallery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 0724031809" This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 0724031809 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0724031809" --= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0724031809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Wegway Second Annual International Juried Exhibition will take place at SPIN Gallery, 158 Bathurst Street, Toronto from August 2 to 10 with an opening reception from 2 to 4 pm on Saturday August 2. The jurors worked very hard and the choices have been made. The 32 artists are: Beth McCubbin, Peterborough, ON Brian Joseph Davis, Toronto, ON Chris MacDonald, Winnipeg, MB David Lester, Vancouver, BC Ehryn Torrell, Toronto, ON Elizabeth Mackie, Frenchtown, NJ Frances Ward, Hamilton, ON Gabrielle de Montmollin, Toronto, ON Isabel M. Martinez, Guelph, ON Istvan Kantor, Toronto, ON Jeremi Bialowas, Chicago, IL Jess Dobkin, Toronto, ON Judith Donoahue, Brechin, ON Kim Simonsson, Toronto, ON and Vadelmapolku, Finland Liz-N-Val, New York, NY Mark Laliberte, Windsor, ON Matt Siber, Chicago, IL Michiko Kameda, New York, NY Nicole Liao, Toronto, ON Oscar Camilo Delas Flores, Toronto, ON Philip Kitt, Montreal, QC Randall Stoltzfus, Brooklyn, NY Raymond St. Arnaud, Victoria, BC René Price, Cornwall, ON Richard Kirkley, Hillier, ON Rick Vincil, Toronto, ON Ri Tian Lee, Toronto, ON Robert Gill, Toronto, ON Robin Hesse, Toronto, ON Ross Racine, Montreal, QC Susan Bozic, Vancouver, BC Teruhisa-Tahara, Yokohama, Japan Thank you to everyone involved. The jury reviewed a lot of good work – a lot more good work than we could ever hope to show. I hope to meet you at the opening, but if you can't make it to the show, all the work will be published in the Fall issue of Wegway. Steve Armstrong, Publisher, Wegway www.wegway.com --= Multipart Boundary _EXTRA_0724031809 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

The Wegway Second Annual International Juried Exhibition will take place at SPIN Gallery, 158 Bathurst Street, Toronto from August 2 to 10 with an opening reception from 2 to 4 pm on Saturday August 2. The jurors worked very hard and the choices have been made.

 

The 32 artists are:

 

Beth McCubbin, Peterborough, ON

Brian Joseph Davis, Toronto, ON

Chris MacDonald, Winnipeg, MB

David Lester, Vancouver, BC

Ehryn Torrell, Toronto, ON

Elizabeth Mackie, Frenchtown, NJ

Frances Ward, Hamilton, ON

Gabrielle de Montmollin, Toronto, ON

Isabel M. Martinez, Guelph, ON

Istvan Kantor, Toronto, ON

Jeremi Bialowas, Chicago, IL

Jess Dobkin, Toronto, ON

Judith Donoahue, Brechin, ON

Kim Simonsson, Toronto, ON and Vadelmapolku, Finland

Liz-N-Val, New York, NY

Mark Laliberte, Windsor, ON

Matt Siber, Chicago, IL

Michiko Kameda, New York, NY

Nicole Liao, Toronto, ON

Oscar Camilo Delas Flores, Toronto, ON

Philip Kitt, Montreal, QC

Randall Stoltzfus, Brooklyn, NY

Raymond St. Arnaud, Victoria, BC

René Price, Cornwall, ON

Richard Kirkley, Hillier, ON

Rick Vincil, Toronto, ON

Ri Tian Lee, Toronto, ON

Robert Gill, Toronto, ON

Robin Hesse, Toronto, ON

Ross Racine, Montreal, QC

Susan Bozic, Vancouver, BC

Teruhisa-Tahara, Yokohama, Japan

 

Thank you to everyone involved. The jury reviewed a lot of good work – a lot more good work than we could ever hope to show.  I hope to meet you at the opening, but if you can't make it to the show, all the work will be published in the Fall issue of Wegway.

 

Steve Armstrong, Publisher, Wegway  www.wegway.com

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========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1904 02:06:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: <20030716164229.79017.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >*what are examples of poems written in parks, or of >poets writing in and >around parks?* > > >not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's >"wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think >of this==== > Dont know whether he was there, but you just might consider WCW's Paterson. -- George Bowering Ajar to suggestions. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1904 02:09:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Tom Savage's poem "Nightwalk in Tompins Park" (the title maybe slightly >different) is a fantastic poem. >Murat > I have a LONGER POEM ABOUT STAYING IN STANLEY PARK ALL DAY after eating peyote. It was in my first book, 1964, cant remember the title. They loved it in Tucson -- George Bowering Ajar to suggestions. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:38:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: parks again In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In the discussion of Olmsted, have I blown past mention of the National Zoo? I believe he designed the whole thing, and one of the trails in it is named for him. Despite what seems almost a Biblical curse on it over the last year (feed thy zebras wrong, and lo, they shall croak in winter), as a member, I go oftener than most. Sometimes I admire the audacity of Olmsted's design in the hilliest bit of Rock Creek Park. Sometimes I struggle up a tall hill, trying simply to get the hell out of the zoo, and curse his name. Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:47:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For something completely different, Rochester's "A Ramble in Saint James's Park." At 02:06 AM 1/1/1970 -0700, you wrote: >>*what are examples of poems written in parks, or of >>poets writing in and >>around parks?* >> >> >>not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's >>"wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think >>of this==== >Dont know whether he was there, but you just might consider WCW's Paterson. >-- >George Bowering >Ajar to suggestions. >Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:32:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Elizabeth Sprague Subject: video poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have any information, thoughts, contacts, etcetera for = people doing poetry/video installations/performance work with video or = video/word constructions messing with or otherwise altering notions of = narrative forms and poetry/poetics? I think there is much of this work at various poetry/film festivals in = Canada? Canadian listees in particular--help? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Please b/c responses. JS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:01:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030724194318.0184c4a8@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable From the Google scholar hard at work amongst us: While in the park I sing, the listening deer Attend my passion, and forget to fear. --Waller.=20 (I wonder if Waller sang before he pulled out his archery gear!??) It's curious in all the dictionary definitions given below, that nothing in the way of the "sacred" is broached. I suspect in this country, the use of parks, depending on where or how they are constructed, are frequently blended with the idea of a "sacred ground" where, for example, an experienc= e of "sublimity" is fused with the activity of the eye, the way one walks, a form of solitude and prayer, or, alternatively other kinds of communion wit= h others, or one other, separate from secular play or work. When Bierdstadt painted in Yosemite, he called it "God's workshop." Even City parks, such a= s the Arboretum in San Francisco's Golden Gate, has unique groves and meditation areas that clearly provide a space to commemorate the memory of the dead in the flourish of the natural present.) Also when I think about contemporary professional City sport's stadiums, their self-contained designs seem bastardizations or a separation from the traditional City Park, in that they have totally eliminated the natural component, and may be best called "commercial parks." Before game "Tailgate" picnics are forced to take place on the unkind asphalt parking lot. And capitalism clearly has a captive audience inside the gate. Etc. Kezar Stadium, which is part of Golden Gate Park, used to be the home of th= e SF 49ers until Football became a real business in the sixties. Fortunately the stadium has been beautifully rebuilt, the grounds in full view whether or not you go in and watch a high school game from the bleachers. \Park\, n. [AS. pearroc, or perh. rather fr. F. parc; both being of the sam= e origin; cf. LL. parcus, parricus, Ir. & Gael. pairc, W. park, parwg. Cf. Paddock an inclosure, Parrock.] 1. (Eng. Law) A piece of ground inclosed, and stored with beasts of the chase, which a man may have by prescription, or the king's grant. --Mozley & W. 2. A tract of ground kept in its natural state, about or adjacent to a residence, as for the preservation of game, for walking, riding, or the like. --Chaucer. 3. A piece of ground, in or near a city or town, inclosed and kept for ornament and recreation; as, Hyde Park in London; Central Park in New York. park =A0=A0 (=A0P=A0)=A0=A0Pronunciation Key=A0=A0(p=E4rk) n.=20 1. An area of land set aside for public use, as: a. A piece of land with few or no buildings within or adjoining a town, maintained for recreational and ornamental purposes. b. A landscaped city square. c. A large tract of rural land kept in its natural state and usually reserved for the enjoyment and recreation of visitors. 2. A broad, fairly level valley between mountain ranges: the high parks of the Rocky Mountains. 3. A tract of land attached to a country house, especially when includin= g extensive gardens, woods, pastures, or a game preserve. 4. Sports. A stadium or an enclosed playing field: a baseball park. 5. =20 a. An area where military vehicles or artillery are stored and serviced. b. The materiel kept in such an area. 6. An area in or near a town designed and usually zoned for a certain purpose: a commercial park. Stephen V on 7/24/03 7:47 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > For something completely different, Rochester's "A Ramble in Saint James'= s > Park." >=20 > At 02:06 AM 1/1/1970 -0700, you wrote: >>> *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of >>> poets writing in and >>> around parks?* >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's >>> "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think >>> of this=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Dont know whether he was there, but you just might consider WCW's Paters= on. >> -- >> George Bowering >> Ajar to suggestions. >> Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:19:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Relaunch Party/Elvis Costello (Music) Live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please Forward ------------------------ My Aim is Boog Wed. July 30, 8 p.m. CB's 313 Gallery 313 Bowery $8 Come celebrate the relaunch of Boog City, the East Village community newspaper, as 13 different musical acts cover the first two Elvis Costello albums, My Aim is True and This Years Model, in order, track by track to raise money for the paper. Before and between the two records there will be readings from the issue's contributors. With music from the Baby Skins * Merry Fortune * Jim Frazzitta * Pantsuit (Nan from Schwervon, Tina from Imaginary Numbers, and Christine Murray from Bionic Finger) * Ruth Gordon (Aaron Kiely and Sean Cole) * Dan Saltzman * Alan Semerdjian * Steve Shiffman & The Fat Of The Land * the Spunk Lads * the Tet Offensive * the Trouble Dolls * Simone White * and England's the Wave Pictures And readings from Sean Cole * Sarah Manguso * Edwin Torres Hosted by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: 6 to Bleecker St., F to 2nd Avenue Club is between 1st and 2nd streets For further information call 212-842-BOOG (2664) or email editor@boogcity.com --- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:53:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: video poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Sondheim would be a neat start. He is on the list and he is excellent. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k3 __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) www.blazevox.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Elizabeth Sprague" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Subject: video poetry > Does anyone have any information, thoughts, contacts, etcetera for people doing poetry/video installations/performance work with video or video/word constructions messing with or otherwise altering notions of narrative forms and poetry/poetics? > > I think there is much of this work at various poetry/film festivals in Canada? Canadian listees in particular--help? > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. Please b/c responses. > > JS > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:10:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: th3ory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII th3ory do you you do know you my know wife, my suzie wife, graham? suzie even graham? years even ago years when ago she when used she to used if to would itrs like would find to some find new some ways new get to in get the in mood the more mood often more itrs often exciting now be to a be part a of part all of this all help this and help healing. and anything healing. right you now right only itrs available only online. available soon online. it soon will it magazines, in doesnrt she have doesnrt phd a or phd that. like but that. that but didnrt that was suzie unbelievable was at unbelievable they devoted labeled have her labeled v her sthe v ultimate sthe sex-divat. ultimate very sex-divat. lucky very devoted and husband cd well husband few a months few recorded she little a smood- makert little audio smood-makert cd audio should you know, should has suzie always has had always knack a for knack sort this thing. of we've are made we've our it mission our life in as help many as these of hot these b00ks hot are b00ks better help than better 1! than we when met we william met he william so was shy so can we greatly be appreciated. greatly champions. appreciated. one champions. "students": our name: "students": age: william 18 age: comments: 18 3 comments: fiuic 3 ked, fiuic feel to construct a b00k construct their in th3ory their first very time, first helped time, thousands helped women. of never it took never long women before long word before got word around got women the knowing that what knowing makes what tick of how and them help least their 2 least million 2 by women valentines by 2004. f1uicking matter. 2004. wherever matter. workede she time of covered time sipunk, in f1uicking sipunk, suiciking and enjoy or love-making enjoy moree even radio moree tv and werre guys striving werre relationship. at deconstruct some meet we h0t meet y0ung h0t guys y0ung who time want who sweet get suzie sweet an like old an pro old no in time. no contents: time. teamed contents: him teamed up him with up best our educators best jeff educators steven then already has door) the asking and advice. her then advice. might suzie able be you. help tiwinks you. can. we they're can. horny a bunch horny spend they fair a amount fair work amount regular a jobewomen regular were jobewomen coming always into make office her (shutting office sondheim, (shutting funny sondheim, boys funny make boys ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:30:03 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: videopoetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_bWYppAP0CsK/T0REG6RACA)"; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-23406429 --Boundary_(ID_bWYppAP0CsK/T0REG6RACA) Content-type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-23406429; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT think you'll find what you call videopoetry on my sites listed below try this one first http://live-wirez.gu.edu.au/cyber/reality.html also portugese poet, e melo de castro , has been doing video poetry since the late 60s, cheers komninos komninos zervos lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major School of Arts Griffith University Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23 Gold Coast Campus Parkwood PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre Queensland 9726 Australia Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141 homepage: http://www.gu.edu.au/ppages/K_Zervos broadband experiments: http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs audioblog http://spokenword.blog-city.com/ --Boundary_(ID_bWYppAP0CsK/T0REG6RACA)-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:51:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roseisarose Subject: SPARE ROOM: CALL FOR CALLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SPARE ROOM: CALL FOR CALLS The Spare Room collective organizes poetry readings and other literary=20 events in Portland, Oregon, and maintains the Spare Room Dial A Poem=20 line at 503-236-0867. (Information on some of our past readings can be found at=20 www.flim.com/spareroom) We are soliciting text-based work for our Dial A Poem line. Contributing artists will be expected to read/record their work, along=20 with the current Spare Room event announcement, by telephone. We are particularly interested in works that fully exploit the=20 publishing medium of the telephone answering machine, such as sound=20 poetry, serial poems that can be read/heard over a period of weeks, and=20 so on. For more information, or to submit work, contact Spare Room at spareroom@flim.com Maryrose Larkin, for Spare Room Please forward this to everyone you know. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:00:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: pipeloop #0714 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION pipeloop #0714..................excerpt www.the-hyper-age.com because last||||lay enjoying||||ALSO greatest kisser||||return stalk enemy sites fielded jane defence weekly barbara starr washed his corners fire-offering to Israel from Egypt seed garments and the burnt- her in her life face against that Click name contact info||||wanting takes only||||scarcely make them tabernacle the morning made them at the two unto process||||question china? talking china? holum talking china women field and the copulation and she a priest hath shut walked room||||secures chin||||rise slightly blond pussy||||Janet persecution||||chairman rapid pace change sometimes slammed cock||||sensed lifted off||||being helped off Todd||||Yes said||||being undone action really||||tongue||||hard cock entered where found needed more money stick schedule some hear shortly north koreans another meeting hope very much through national laboratories crown jewels american western states legal foundation||||oakland suit charges beach calif contract expected completed contract funds quietly got||||keep everyone horny all time||||pussy only full|||| unzipped jeans slid||||tightly waist wide black||||assumed shittim their peace- camp or who his hair and hath Feast of office estimate legislation cost cbo director june o'neill virgin||||thick hard nipples||||again again||||Seeing naked services create single team multiple capability key task situation languid||||real person||||asked||||seepage waiting department energy conducted proper environmental impact unto me not been able to them the waters of they have drawn beryl and onyx been washed with sanctified them and ye do noted such areas terrorist fund-raising||||chemical Quietly||||free explore island swim||||Jim managed keep smile conventional arms countries proliferation concern|||| inappropriate circumstances actually impede||||attainment make it the herd a perfect brass corners which are to the shoulders||||both Institute outfits||||spandex pants jiggled mercilessly||||pull close hug||||followed||||wavy brown hair held Home | Story Index | Contact | Other||||Oh God afraid wholly partially owned chinese central provincial||||local Scott said softly bought some||||lowered bare pink slit||||know draw near to peace-offerings and fat and the priest small by its dwelt confidently in breastplate your enemies have announced two ready||||larger||||much horny rubbed||||virgin let Just||||feel mouth||||also strong streak||||causing Mike again situation sounds vaguely familiar wright studied bmdo they go of the court His name and they bind the bring in to tragedy now unfolding because reliance arms control countries inhibit deter investment illegally expropriated off||||table dance right front couch||||spread Sara's outer potential development weapons mass destruction adversaries bmdo symposium recently current nmd plan underfunded activities secretary cohen great trepidation ken ask invite fire-offering of sin-offering and and he casteth shittim afterwards think pretty||||wearing except garter belt||||suit Moses tent of meeting to and unto his sons cubits their air force space command commander gen howell estes iii hand specific changes burns end direct support terrorism concurrence license||||recommending president issue national deliberate thoughtful manner taking consideration all citizens more secure also help protect soldiers requiring reinforce appropriateness those principles||||order sanctions through thin||||movie where made like couple||||wheel Oh shit deep||||going finally get chance||||body melt blasted||||pussy penetrating developments two bits recent information lab|||| watched merely made hotter||||Someone took balls mouth|||| plan within days lot time design most far-reaching hath brought and anointed him of the sanctuary the part events conducted year many terms nunn-lugar program these countries valuable resources wasted limited control efforts crying of for I am Jehovah God of Israel and robe of fine one way can think||||lends peace mind||||women thought||||sliding black man's hand helped||||countenance||||wanted much fun||||got multiplier strategy strategy highly successful maintaining department state well aware justice department implemented applied part||||coherent strategy sanctions after Israel to dwell in as hoar-frost on the and all its any person who its separated things the anointing oil place packed||||keep mind want fun||||length Mike unable keep|||| Tim's hair kissed||||dress||||every one comfortable will||||main a laver of brass and the priest hearken to the voice the empty chairs table||||tip still inside continued||||mother Moses and cover it and an ox he doth bring near on the relations Ahisamach of the bullock and of the thyself that section current activities including development assistance investment china number complex requirements exist foreign- the sons burnt-offering for the priests doth eat sprinkled wonderful sight Sue impaled||||wilting cock became||||brings modification cost plus award fee contract scientific Oh yes win contest||||finger touched love button||||number missiles such scuds fly km more article contains chart develop||||closeness intimacy||||uncomfortable sex||||down knees computer program identify potential launch areas hide sites home dressed coat tie||||body shuddered own climax||||next ten and the priest hath been mighty against Jehovah and brought ring running through labia||||breaths anticipation release|||| benign geopolitical security environment thankfully arms greeted||||Janet listen wife Sara's||||like others eyes very shapely also||||rest nice sunny day||||bed brought poked||||learned own generally||||sucked hard nipple||||remember fall prey higher budget priorities services||||space-based positioning system gps various weapons systems||||brazil joining department defense served deputy executive officer prospects china trade policy including enforcement existing enterprises example such enterprises covered gatt wright-patterson part afmc human systems center while word of Moses wings he doth not and no man doth Israel And caused the man who yourselves with them made perfume on the disarmament nothing else starts negotiating elimination all man||||lying corner completely crumpled||||can spit||||soaking dine stressed economic growth democratic reform go hand while Terry caressed||||two floor got hard again||||class|||| staff writer march||||military plans new methods stopping spy otherwise plunge eurasia turmoil usher new era tension body whether these processes||||perpetuity used nuclear proscribed proliferation activities items required weapons thought second Hank going||||Weird put robe wonder||||hand guarantee results absence such||||mechanism almost certainly lying in the house a man so it is done thing which is horse attacked Borg Dominion||||having trouble trying fit||||hide safety reliability nuclear weapons stockpile formulating will pick up||||breathed ear softly Now||||asshole pushing washed their and the house he unto Aaron What hath international space station available internet preview||||new favorite fantasy show||||become lesbian||||felt lover years ago think more cynicism conference think tragic breast slid||||moaned squirmed little more||||sessions||||ass people world share benefits accelerated development mouth down other breast looked||||pushed back soon||||bride lie with her Jehovah is seen in us lest we die the priest cia all||||congressional testimony available online reason|||| maketh a burnt- answer together and And a man or woman love||||felt tip Tom's hard cock sliding||||constantly verge|||| daniel inouye hawaii democrat||||senior intelligence phillips laboratory kirtland air force base rome laboratory weapons both united states russians now much lower levels timetable||||bilateral meeting mentioned between united himself||||slim very slutty looking tell||||bodies squeezing chest towards rigid spike||||clit same time am also going|||| very handsome||||days tall enough demand||||Wendy's legs lie action continued||||see each others eyes||||Tom's work till person||||licked through clit causing Kate||||kissing both||||anymore Scott felt Trudy's mouth lick||||cousin Uncle's reverse case proceeding adaptation nato address needs post- marine unit always army unit end world war actually world restrictions demanding deal made key agreement bell added proper fucking||||triad more advanced students||||few things watched||||Chris's prick battering way down||||very comfortable tongue ass Finally Wanda ran||||spread lips part slide|||| upset anything||||put these Tim Danielle said august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:03:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: bliss #393 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit club bibliotech chad sanders bliss #393 excerpt www.club-bibliotech.com blooded walls pussy contracting pumping blooded vaginal secretion pathologic walls pussy contracting pumping blooded vaginal secretion pathologic walls pussy contracting pumping blooded vaginal secretion pathologic walls pussy contracting pumping vaginal secretion pathologic nervousness insomnia baths nervousness insomnia baths nervousness insomnia baths nervousness insomnia baths cannot cannot cannot repetitious rolling emotional cannot repetitious rolling emotional repetitious rolling emotional repetitious rolling emotional render render scribbled tore folded render remembering stopped scribbled tore folded render harassment remembering stopped scribbled tore folded harassment remembering stopped scribbled tore folded harassment assistants generalissimo surveying remembering stopped seems met perplexing harassment assistants generalissimo surveying seems met perplexing assistants generalissimo surveying seems met perplexing assistants generalissimo surveying seems met perplexing wrapping annoying symptoms necessitous wrapping annoying symptoms necessitous wrapping annoying symptoms advancement necessitous wrapping annoying symptoms advancement necessitous advancement advancement flash snapped told flash snapped told labours matters vie flash snapped told labours matters vie flash snapped told labours matters vie labours matters vie spiritually illumined ordered drinks handing looking instincts presentiments spiritually illumined ordered drinks handing looking instincts presentiments spiritually illumined ordered drinks handing looking instincts presentiments spiritually illumined lifted expired ordered drinks handing looking instincts presentiments effectively trapping arms lifted expired effectively trapping arms lifted expired croquet mildest effectively trapping arms lifted expired croquet mildest effectively trapping arms croquet mildest portion croquet mildest portion elements highly portion elements highly portion washboards elements highly inhabited washboards elements highly inhabited cowards washboards inhabited cowards washboards inhabited cowards seems yourselves varies cowards seems yourselves varies seems yourselves varies seems yourselves varies ousted ones retort lex talionis fatigued weary ousted ones retort lex talionis fatigued weary ousted ones retort lex talionis fatigued weary ousted ones retort lex talionis persisting fatigued weary persisting persisting persisting accounts saying trying accounts saying trying accounts saying trying accounts saying trying actions entitling dictates actions entitling dictates actions entitling dictates nosebleeds concerned overly -donors striding recoiled tremor actions entitling dictates nosebleeds concerned overly -donors striding recoiled tremor nosebleeds concerned overly -donors striding recoiled tremor religions nosebleeds concerned overly -donors striding recoiled tremor religions? definitions referring religions definitions referring religions definitions referring definitions referring resided resided resided resided smooth fast completion smooth fast completion smooth fast completion august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:42:12 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michel Delville Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?CFP:_Mosaics_(University_of_Li=E8ge,_Belgium)?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mosaics=20 (CIPA - Centre Interdisciplinaire de Po=E9tique Appliqu=E9e; University of Li=E8ge, Belgium) In November 2004 the "Centre Interdisciplinaire de Po=E9tique appliqu=E9" (CIPA, Interdisciplinary Centre for Applied Poetics) will be holding its third international symposium at the University of Li=E8ge (after "Poetry &/In Music" in 2001 and "Foundations in Poetics" in 2002). The question which will be considered within the framework of the 2004 symposium focuses on what Lucien D=E4llenbach recently described as "un object esth=E9tique = =E0 rebondissements" (a rebounding aesthetic object). Without doubt interdisciplinary work involves procedures and processes which are at once inventive and risky. Given this, and the fact that a major aim of modern poetics is to explore the specific and irreducible aspects of all artistic practice (such as, for example, the famous and ever-pertinent "literarity of literature" as expressed by Roman Jakobson), an urgent question arises: should this multi-levelled exploration use points of comparison as map co-ordinates? This is, of course, an open question. Yet it points to one of the pitfalls that threaten every interdisciplinary approach: when it attempts to compare fields that may, all things considered, only be superficially comparable, analysis is condemned to mere approximation and reduction, to building bridges that may prove to be rickety and insubstantial - in short, an interdisciplinary approach often unwittingly falls prey to the "demon of analogy". In order to avoid such pitfalls strict binary comparisons between artistic practices must be abandoned, and attempts to find those aspects that enable us to say that various artistic practices are similar must not overlook their differences, their particularities and their points of tension or friction. It is even highly likely that, to a great extent, the most interesting questions lie precisely in those friction areas. As a result it is necessary to think not in the static terms of simple comparison, but rather in the more overtly dynamic terms of a transversal approach - and to recognise that the interest lies less in the comparison itself than in the vibrating and oscillating images and objects it produces, animated rubber balls or questions that bounce and ricochet between this or that artistic form. This tension between static comparisons and tracing dynamic and volatile trajectories leads us to consider the mosaic, which can be usefully considered as both a frozen kaleidoscope and an extremely ontologically dialectical object. In a groundbreaking work that will certainly pave the way for further lines of investigation Lucien D=E4llenbach has demonstrated both the tricky nature and the extreme richness of the mosaic: an antique and forgotten object which paradoxically so manifestly haunts contemporary practice that it crops up in any investigation in the realm of compared poetics. With the mosaic the boundaries between art, technique and craft become blurred (without considering that the mosaic leads us back to the prickly issue of the so-called "decorative arts"), and design, drawing, painting and architecture intertwine. This "in-between" position is also found on a more restricted and local scale: tensions between the figurative and the non-figurative; virtual tensions, between the fragment and the whole, and finally, the stresses and strains between stroke and colour, between the line and the object which it traces, etc. The symposium will bring together participants who extend and expand D=E4llenbach's founding ideas. The mosaic may be regarded, stricto sensu, as a practice. It may also be regarded, lato sensu, as a notion, the principle of which is based on a metacritical approach which unravels the mosaic's meaning, even on an ideological level. Above all, it is necessary to examine the conditions to which the mosaic must submit in order to become, strictly speaking, an issue; to examine what specific dynamics mobilise it as a powerful analytical device, a general and transversal problematic, and the conditions that make it available to rigorous formulations in different artistic fields (architecture and literature as well as cinema, music, comic strips, video art, multimedia, digital art, etc.). Here is a non-exhaustive list of possible approaches.=20 Visual Arts A mosaic is, first of all, a visual artefact: a representation to which a variable coefficient of mimetic power has been allotted. In this way, the mosaic is spontaneously called into dialogue with all other images, regardless of their nature (pictorial images, photographic images, cinematic images, electronic images, etc.). It seems that the mosaic in particular incites and invites confrontation with images of a fundamentally composite character: images made up of fragments, images made up of minute shards, of odds and ends, heterogeneous and divided images, split and shattered images. In this regard the mosaic allows us to reconsider issues as varied and as fundamental as collage (Dadaist, surrealist and beyond), photomontage, found footage (films made exclusively from fragments of other films) or even divided images (in painting, photography, cinema, etc.). Architecture It is probably because of its links to architecture that Adolf Loos did not consider the mosaic as a "crime" and indeed used this technique to "adorn" the ceilings of his most beautiful villas. But is the mosaic still seen as an ornament? When the mosaic is considered, does not the lazy dualism which opposes the "noble" to the decorative arts become deconstructed? This would explain why the word, which takes us back by metonymy to ancient palaces and Byzantine churches, may be seen as loaded with historical meaning while at the same time as a bearer of "modernity"=85 However, it is in the figurative sense of the word that the mosaic appears today as one of the dominant motifs of architectural and urbanist theory. In this respect the symposium will work to evaluate the significance of the mosaic as a metaphor for architectural composition in the broadest sense, from design to urban planning. This possible re-reading should allow what are essentially very different problematics to be seen in a new light and perhaps even linked. For example, and at random: (1) disjunction, the theory elaborated by Tschumi and put into practice at le Parc de la Villette, favouring repetitiveness and the unit/fragmentation relationship; (2) the PHOTOSHOP concept that Rem Koolhaas deemed worthy of copyright protection and which he defines, with reference to the software package of the same name, as an ultramodern "architectural and urban production" model using cut-and-paste; (3) architectural mutations concerning new technologies and virtual architecture in particular; etc. Literature Since its distant origins, text, an art for which the concept and experience of time is fundamental, has also been thought of in terms of spatial metaphors: from the "theatre of memory" (in oral literatures), through ideas of "networks" (in the literatures which are being launched on the internet), to images as varied as the jigsaw puzzle or the tapestry. Also, over the millennia texts have been written on a variety of materials which literally transform them into curious and fascinating objects. The end of the 20th century seems to have had a marked preference for the mosaic, which looms large as a textual metaphor (the same is also true of literary works of the past), but is also very active as a concrete model of the new forms of electronic writing which have begun to emerge in our age and times. A number of questions arise from these observations. Some concern the mosaic as an image of textual production (What is the value of such metaphors? What are there heuristic and hermeneutic strengths and weaknesses? What relations does the mosaic have to other spatial metaphors concerning text?). Others relate to the mosaic as a practical model of composition (is writing on and for a screen based, first and foremost, on the model of the mosaic? Does the mosaic help in understanding other literary practices that use the "cut and paste" technique? In practice, what does it mean to compose/read a text as a mosaic?). Practical information Proposed papers (title and 15 line abstract), in English or French, should be sent to Michel Delville and Livio Bello=EF before March 1st, 2004. ********* Mosa=EFques Appel =E0 communications En octobre 2004, le Centre Interdisciplinaire de Po=E9tique Appliqu=E9e (CIP= A) organisera dans les murs de l'Universit=E9 de Li=E8ge son troisi=E8me colloq= ue international (apr=E8s " Po=E9sie et musique " en 2001 et " Fondements de la po=E9tique " en 2002). La recherche inter- ou transdisciplinaire constitue =E0 ne pas en douter une d=E9marche =E0 la fois inventive et risqu=E9e, qui, =E0 maints =E9gards, rel= =E8ve toujours un peu du d=E9fi. Qu'elle se revendique ouvertement d'une po=E9tiqu= e g=E9n=E9rale et compar=E9e ne fait somme toute que compliquer plus encore le= s questions et les postures. La vis=E9e majeure de la po=E9tique moderne, on l= e sait, tient =E0 la mise au jour de la part sp=E9cifique et irr=E9ductible de toute pratique artistique (telle, par exemple, la fameuse " litt=E9rarit=E9 = de la litt=E9rature ", selon la toujours pertinente expression de Roman Jakobson). Or est-il concevable que cette remont=E9e - ou cette plong=E9e - dans le sp=E9cifique et l'irr=E9ductible s'ouvre par la suite =E0 une op=E9r= ation de mise en regard ? En d'autres termes, est-il l=E9gitime, pertinent ou m=EA= me tout simplement utile de comparer terme =E0 terme deux irr=E9ductibles ? La question, bien s=FBr, reste ouverte. Mais elle fait d=E9j=E0 signe vers l'un= des grands travers qui guette toute d=E9marche interdisciplinaire : =E0 vouloir comparer ce qui, tout bien pes=E9, n'est souvent comparable qu'en apparence, l'analyse se condamne d'embl=E9e =E0 l'approximation et =E0 la r=E9duction,= =E0 la mise en exergue d'=E9quivalences souvent hasardeuses et, au final, bien trop friables : par l=E0, elle c=E8de, la plupart du temps sans bien s'en rendre compte (telle est sa part d'impens=E9), =E0 une forme maligne de " d=E9mon d= e l'analogie ". En guise de parade, il nous a sembl=E9 imp=E9ratif d'abandonner les confrontations trop strictement binaires entre pratiques artistiques. =C0 l'=E9vidence, jeter des ponts entre diff=E9rentes disciplines n'autorise pas pour autant =E0 nier les diff=E9rences, les singularit=E9s, les points de cl=F4ture, de tension ou de friction. Il y a m=EAme fort =E0 parier que les questions les plus aigu=EBs r=E9sident pr=E9cis=E9ment, pour une large part,= dans ces zones de turbulence o=F9 la friction se fait jour et insiste. D'o=F9 la n=E9cessit=E9 de penser la comparaison, non en termes, relativement statique= s, de simple mise en regard, mais bien plut=F4t en termes, plus ouvertement dynamiques, de transversalit=E9 - et de reconna=EEtre, par-del=E0, que la question g=EEt peut-=EAtre moins dans la comparaison pour elle-m=EAme que da= ns l'objet ou dans le motif renvoy=E9, =E0 la fa=E7on d'une balle, mais aussi = =E0 la mani=E8re d'une question, id=E9alement bondissante et rebondissante, =E0= telle ou telle forme artistique. =20 La question qui nous retiendra dans le cadre du colloque de 2004 porte justement - et embl=E9matiquement - sur un " objet esth=E9tique =E0 rebondissements " . Dans un ouvrage fondateur, qui aura assur=E9ment ouvert de multiples pistes de r=E9flexion, Lucien D=E4llenbach a livr=E9 la d=E9monstration, admirable, =E0 la fois du caract=E8re =E9pineux et de l'ext= r=EAme richesse dont s'investit la figure de la mosa=EFque : objet antique et oubli=E9, mais en m=EAme temps, selon un paradoxe puissant dont elle d=E9tie= nt le secret, figure obs=E9dante, si manifestement contemporaine et omnipr=E9sente qu'elle semble s'imposer comme naturellement, comme =E9lectivement, =E0 tout= e investigation relevant, de pr=E8s ou de loin, d'une po=E9tique compar=E9e. La mosa=EFque, c'est comme un kal=E9idoscope =E0 l'arr=EAt, un objet= hautement et ontologiquement dialectique. En elle, se brouillent ainsi les fronti=E8res entre art, technique et artisanat (cela dit sans compter que la mosa=EFque engage =E0 reprendre, mine de rien, l'=E9pineuse question des arts dits d=E9coratifs) ; en elle, s'entrecroisent et se dialectisent dessin, peinture et architecture. Mais cette posture d'entre se v=E9rifie tout aussi bien sur un plan plus serr=E9 et local : tension entre le figuratif (ordre de la repr=E9sentation, de la transitivit=E9) et le non-figuratif (versant de la tache, de l'=E9clat, de l'opaque) ; tensions virtuelles, entre le fragment et l'ensemble, entre la partie et le Tout (la tesselle comme fragment, le fragment comme question) ; tiraillements, enfin, entre le trait et la couleur, entre la ligne et l'objet qu'elle a pour vocation de d=E9limiter,= etc.=20 Il s'agira donc, dans une perspective transdisciplinaire, de nous r=E9unir autour de Lucien D=E4llenbach et, autant que possible, d'=E9toiler et de fai= re d=E9river sa pens=E9e fondatrice. La mosa=EFque pourra =EAtre interrog=E9e, = stricto sensu, en tant que pratique ; elle pourra l'=EAtre de m=EAme, lato sensu, en tant que notion, redevable, en son principe, d'une approche m=E9tacritique qui en d=E9plie tous les enjeux, y compris sur un plan id=E9ologique. Mais i= l importera surtout d'examiner les conditions auxquelles la figure mosa=EFque est tenue de se soumettre pour devenir, =E0 proprement parler, une question, un puissant op=E9rateur analytique, une probl=E9matique g=E9n=E9rale et transversale, susceptible de conna=EEtre une formulation rigoureuse au travers de diff=E9rents champs artistiques (architecture, litt=E9rature, mai= s aussi cin=E9ma, musique, photographie, bande dessin=E9e, art-vid=E9o, multim= =E9dia et art num=E9rique, etc.). Petite cartographie non exhaustive : Arts visuels Pour aller =E0 l'essentiel, une mosa=EFque, c'est avant tout un artefact visuel, c'est d'abord une image (imago : " portrait ; ombre d'un mort ; copie ; comparaison ; apologue ; " - Le Grand Robert), c'est une repr=E9sentation affect=E9e d'un coefficient variable de puissance mim=E9tiq= ue. En cela, la mosa=EFque est comme spontan=E9ment appel=E9e =E0 dialoguer avec= toutes les autres images, de quelque nature qu'elles soient (images picturales, photographiques, cin=E9matographiques, =E9lectroniques, etc.). Plus particuli=E8rement, il semble que la figure mosa=EFque incite et invite =E0 = une confrontation avec toutes les images =E0 caract=E8re fonci=E8rement= composite : images constitu=E9es par fragments, images en petits morceaux, faites de bric et de broc, images h=E9t=E9rog=E8nes et divis=E9es, images cliv=E9es ou pulv=E9ris=E9es. A cet =E9gard, il n'est pas interdit de penser - et c'est b= ien cela, entre autres choses, que nous chercherons =E0 v=E9rifier - que la mosa=EFque permet de reprendre =E0 neuf des questions aussi fondamentales et vari=E9es que celles du collage (dada=EFste, surr=E9aliste et au-del=E0), du photomontage, du found footage (films =E9labor=E9s exclusivement =E0 partir = de fragments d'autres films) ou encore de l'image divis=E9e (en peinture, en photographie, en cin=E9ma, etc.). Architecture C'est probablement parce qu'elle fait corps avec l'architecture que la mosa=EFque n'est pas consid=E9r=E9e comme " un crime " par Adolf Loos, qui= en " orne " d'ailleurs les plafonds de ses plus belles villas. Mais pr=E9cis=E9me= nt, s'agit-il encore d'ornement ? Avec la mosa=EFque, le dualisme trop commode qui oppose les arts (majeurs) aux arts d=E9coratifs (mineurs) ne fait-il pas l'objet d'un travail de d=E9construction? Ce qui expliquerait pourquoi ce mot, qui renvoie par m=E9tonymie aux palais antiques et aux =E9glises byzantines, serait =E0 la fois charg=E9 d'histoire et porteur de " modernit= =E9 "=85 Toutefois, c'est au sens figur=E9 que la mosa=EFque nous apparait aujourd'hu= i comme l'un des motifs dominants de la th=E9orie architecturale et urbanistique. Dans cette perspective, il s'agira d'=E9valuer la port=E9e heuristique de la mosa=EFque en tant que m=E9taphore de la composition architecturale prise dans son sens le plus large, depuis les cr=E9ations multiformes du design jusqu'aux projets urbanistiques contemporains. Cette possible relecture devrait nous permettre d'envisager sous un jour nouveau, et peut-=EAtre de relier entre elles, des probl=E9matiques a priori tr=E8s diff=E9rentes. Citons p=EAle-m=EAle : la disjonction, th=E9orie= =E9labor=E9e par Tschumi et qu'il a mise en =9Cuvre au Parc de la Villette, privil=E9giant la r=E9p=E9titivit=E9 et le rapport unit=E9/fragmentation ; le PHOTOSHOP,= concept que Rem Koolhaas a jug=E9 bon de prot=E9ger par un copyright et qu'il d=E9finit,= par r=E9f=E9rence au logiciel du m=EAme nom, comme un mod=E8le ultramoderne de " production architecturale et urbaine" par copier/coller ; les mutations de l'architecture en rapport avec les nouvelles technologies num=E9riques et, plus particuli=E8rement, l'architecture virtuelle ; etc. Litt=E9rature De tous temps, le texte, art du temps, a =E9t=E9 pens=E9 =E0 l'aide de m=E9t= aphores spatiales, du " th=E9=E2tre de la m=E9moire " (dans les litt=E9ratures= orales) au " r=E9seau " (dans les litt=E9ratures qui se lancent sur Internet), en passant par des images aussi vari=E9es que le puzzle ou la tapisserie. De tous temps aussi, le texte s'est vu inscrit sur des supports mat=E9riels extr=EAmement vari=E9s, mais qui le transforment litt=E9ralement en un objet =E0 voir. La = fin du 20e si=E8cle semble avoir eu une pr=E9f=E9rence marqu=E9e pour la= mosa=EFque, tr=E8s pr=E9sente comme m=E9taphore textuelle (y compris pour parler des =9Cuvres d= u pass=E9), mais aussi tr=E8s active comme mod=E8le concret des nouvelles form= es d'=E9criture =E9lectronique qui commencent =E0 =E9merger dans cette p=E9riod= e. De l=E0 surgissent de multiples questions. Les unes concernent la mosa=EFque comme image de la production textuelle (que vaut une telle m=E9taphore ? quelles sont ses forces et ses faiblesses heuristiques et herm=E9neutiques ? quels sont ses rapports avec d'autres m=E9taphores spatiales du texte ?). Les autres concernent la mosa=EFque comme mod=E8le pratique de composition (est-= ce que l'=E9criture sur et pour l'=E9cran se fait prioritairement sur le mod=E8= le de la mosa=EFque ? est-ce que la mosa=EFque aide aussi =E0 comprendre d'autres pratiques litt=E9raires ayant recours au " couper-coller " ? que signifie en pratique la r=E9daction/lecture d'un texte comme mosa=EFque ?). Modalit=E9s pratiques Les propositions de communications (intitul=E9 et r=E9sum=E9 d'une quinzaine= de lignes), en fran=E7ais ou en anglais, doivent =EAtre adress=E9es =E0 Livio B= ello=EF [Livio.Belloi@ulg.ac.be] et Michel Delville [mdelville@ulg.ac.be] avant le 1er mars 2004. =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:58:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: video poetry In-Reply-To: <002901c3525d$535e7000$385204d1@Jane> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Does anyone have any information, thoughts, > contacts, etcetera for people doing poetry/video > installations/performance work with video or > video/word constructions messing with or otherwise > altering notions of narrative forms and > poetry/poetics? > > I think there is much of this work at various > poetry/film festivals in Canada? Canadian listees in > particular--help? > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. Please b/c responses. > > JS Richard Kostelanetz has been working at a high level in this area for some thirty years. (Sorry, not back-channeling because I think answers to your question--which I'm interested in, too--merit wider exposure. --Bob G. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:40:33 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: video poetry In-Reply-To: <002901c3525d$535e7000$385204d1@Jane> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jane, the best one i know of is the Vancouver Videopoem festival. info at http://www.videopoem.com/ deadline is august 15. later, kevin -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 04:38:54 -0700 Reply-To: jvcervantes@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Cervantes Subject: "Theoretically" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Theoretically Still haunted by an attachment to "identity"? Unaware of any theoretical developments in language after 1913, the year of the lovely "Black Square" by Malevich? Perhaps this is why it took you years to finally say "Uncle Clyde" and mean it. Only then did you realize "Uncle Clyde" was attached to your identity. What changed was the total lack of words or names for his haunting, his yearning to give you a plasmatic slap on the face and say, "Complete me! Break the friggin milk bottles and burn those musty papers!" The problem was you didn't want to go back to 1913 for the name, and instead floundered in the late 70s. Had you been aware, you would have noticed that "Clyde" and "Uncle" had been in use all along, though not timeless. On the streets and in the playgrounds, "Uncle" was as common as a cigarette butt, "Clyde" somewhat problematic as you'd never been on a farm, nor met anyone who would admit to the name. Now you're free and can theoretically go about your business. What's-his-name is gone and all you can see is a pair of overalls and some long underwear on a clothesline wherever they still have real clotheslines and a dozen or so clothespins waiting. * The first two sentences closely and loosely paraphrase those of Kazim Ali in a post on the Poetics list, Wed., 23 July, 2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:31:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Zork Alan Subject: Re: Video poetry [UOB List serve] Comments: To: anesprague@clarityconnect.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable JS, Ah, I thought I was the only one odd enough to think this was a great idea. 3 years ago I shot 2 hours of source video with friends of mine from an =B3Acting for the fun of it=B2 class at Suny purchase. I then took a prose poe= m of mine [=B3This is my favorite part=B2] with a clear narrative and shot 60 minutes of video. Unfortunately after shooting the source video I got distracted while loggin= g [by the processing of publishing 12,000 copies of a book and the related marketing efforts] and before editing, so the projects is still to be done. But I have ideas for a full DVD of adaptations of my work that I want to work on in the next year. And since advances like G5s, After Effects 6 and Final Cut 4 with Live Type making cool poetic videos should be a lot easier and a lot cooler. For most non prosey poems heavy use of tools like =B3Live Type=B2 [part of Final Cut 4] will likely prove very useful. And now poets can burn their own DVD projects at home. But, bottom line, it is cool to hear other stuff is going on with this realm. And I certainly plan on actually doing what I set out to do years ago. Thanks for reminding me I need to get back to that. And I look forward to see what other poets do with this new genre. -- Eric Zork Alan -- Author: =B3Stolen Snapshots: I am NOT a poet=B2 & =B3Things to do with beer bottles=B2 -- www.stolensnapshots.com [home of the 6,000 book-for-poem TRADE-away] PS. If I ever get =B3This is my favorite part=B2 done it will be the only video poem to star the Toxic Avenger [the friend and actor I used as one of the two leads played The Toxic Avenger in Troma=B9s =B3Citizen Toxie: Toxic Avenger Part IV=B2 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 05:14:47 -0700 Reply-To: jvcervantes@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Cervantes Subject: Re: "Theoretically" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to say I forgot to sign the post! Twas my work. - Jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:08:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like the word "viewshed" Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: parks again > "It is true that some people look upon such woods merely as troublesome > encumbrance standing in the way of profitable use of the land, but future > generations will not feel so and will bless the men who were wise enough to > get such woods preserved. Future generations, however, will be likely to > appreciate the wild beauty and the grandeur of the tall fir trees in this > forest park...it's deep, shady ravines and bold view-commanding spurs, far > more than the majority of citizens of today, many of whom are familiar with > similar original woods. But such primal woods will become as rare about > Portland as they now are about Boston. If these woods are preserved, they > will surely come to be regarded as marvelously beautiful." John Charles > Olmstead and Frederick Law Olmstead, Jr., "Report of the Park Board." > Portland, Oregon, 1903. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Chirot" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:49 AM > Subject: Re: parks again > > > > Robert Smithson was very intrigued by Olmsted and wrote a piece on him and > > also a very good one on Central Park as it existed in the Sixties, > > contrasting contemporary photos with ones from Olmsted's time. > > In one of the Olmsted parks here in Milwaukee, the diaries of Arthur > Bremer > > (the man who stalked Nixon and then shot George Wallace) were found. They > > formed one of the bases for the film TAXI DRIVER. > > An interesting twist on park literature--hidden documents! > > Olmsted had a vision of the park as creating a democratic space, where > > people of all classes would mingle, and the new immigrant learn more of > the > > American experience, as well as being accepted into it. > > Henry James writes very interestingly of this, from a turn-of-the > 19th/20th > > century point of view in THE AMERICAN SCENE. > > Reading again Hamsun's HUNGER and Strindberg's INFERNO, struck as always > > with what a large role parks play in so many modernist works of > alienation. > > Approrpriately--Colin Wilson lived in Hyde Park while writing THE > OUTSIDER. > > At various times of homelessness in various cities in USA and > abroad--parks > > always a place to inhabit, meet people, read and write, eat and sleep--and > > endeavor to avoid police-- > > The Olmsted parks here are very beautiful and know many of their > > denizons--people who have set out to live in them-- > > Good places to write and make rubbings from various sites--and read poetry > > aloud to trees and passersby-- > > or shout sound poems in direction of Lake Michigan-- > > In the first decades of the 19th Century in many American cities, > > cemetieries were thought of and created to be another form of park, as > well > > as an intermediate zone between the overcrowded cities and the new > suburbs. > > The cemetery/park (the city cemeteries had grown too full to allow for > > further "inhabitants") was thought to be an uplifting place morally and > > spiritually--one could meditate on eternity and other "timeless subjects" > > for example--and as well take in plenty of fresh healthy air and walk > among > > flowers, statues, towers and tombs. > > An excellent example is Mount Auburn Cemetry, which links Cambridge, MA > with > > Watertown and has lovely winding paths and roads, a myriad of forms of > > scultuprual and architectural styles of gravestones, tombsand vaults, a > > tower from which to view the surrounding area atop a hill, and quite a > > variety of flora, exotic and local. > > Mary Baker Eddy is ensconced there in a vault which contains a telephone. > > You can try giving her a call. I have tried numerous times and never > > received an answer. > > Who knows--perhaps you may! > > onwo/ards! > > david baptiste > > > > >From: Michael Rothenberg > > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: parks again > > >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:09 -0400 > > > > > >also note: Every Day, the book of poems by Philip Whalen is > > >'Respectfully dedicated to the memory of John McClaren 1846-1943 Builder > of > > >Golden Gate Park" > > > > > >MR > > > > > > > > >Michael Rothenberg > > >walterblue@bigbridge.org > > >Big Bridge > > >www.bigbridge.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:27:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > the Arboretum in San Francisco's Golden Gate, has unique groves and > meditation areas that clearly provide a space to commemorate the memory of > the dead in the flourish of the natural present.) Am I flamingly nuts, or has Golden Gate, site of the Human Be-In, now got some sort of memorial to the memory of the *Grateful* Dead? (having been the site of Garcia's memorial gathering as well...) Gwyn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:34:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: parks In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Am I flamingly nuts, or has Golden Gate, site of the Human Be-In, now got > some sort of memorial to the memory of the *Grateful* Dead? (having been > the site of Garcia's memorial gathering as well...) > > Gwyn Not to my knowledge. I did fail to mention the Aids Memorial Grove (which may have a more accurate name), which is quite extraordinary. If you Google around you will find it in pictures, history, etc. Which is not the "real" thing - that will be a sad day when people turn monitors into anything comparable to a well made park memorial site or, to be liberal, let's say a challenge. "Flaming Nuts" used to be the name of a local punk band! Sorry, just made that up. Stephen V on 7/25/03 7:27 AM, Gwyn McVay at gmcvay@PATRIOT.NET wrote: >> the Arboretum in San Francisco's Golden Gate, has unique groves and >> meditation areas that clearly provide a space to commemorate the memory of >> the dead in the flourish of the natural present.) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:02:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: "Booger" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit UB Poetics Discussion Group: I wonder if anyone here has information regarding the history, roots, eym. of the English-language word "booger." I was surprised to hear my father, an 82-year old American, utter it this morning, over breakfast. My mother suggested that it's a word that her grandmother would have been familiar with, which would push it back into mid-late 19c Brooklyn or Newark at least. Also curious about change in pronunciation of first syllable. Aaron Vidaver Vancouver "They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief. / It just doesn't pay to eat anything but government-inspected beef." -- Phil Ochs, The Ballad of Alfred Packer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:41:27 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: Re: parks Comments: To: Stephen Vincent In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hot Nuts is the name of a band here in st. john's. Started off doing Stff Little Fingers covers but they have cd of original stuff coming out soon. the lead singer played frankie in a run of rocky horror last year. greta pipes and great legs. have good week-ends all! Keivn On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > Am I flamingly nuts, or has Golden Gate, site of the Human Be-In, now got > > > > Gwyn > "Flaming Nuts" used to be the name of a local punk band! > > Sorry, just made that up. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:11:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: parks again In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, David, for this lovely summation de City Parks Where does the Smithson essay on Olmsted appear? Curiously, re the Olmsted in Milwaukee- given all my connections with walks and parks - I wrote an extended poem entitled "The Ballad of Artie Bremer" (Momo's Press, 1974). I did not know Bremer - who was young, bright, brimming with contradictions and full of so much sorrow - was ever to find any solace anywhere, let alone an Olmsted Park. That is probably another "good" area of exploration - murderous deeds performed and/or imagined Parks - the Hawthorne, Poe "apprehension of nature" side of the Am. Lit standard equation - which you hint here in the role of 'alientation'. And Joel, that's a great Olmsted quote on the forests around Portland - which, as you probably know, are the on-going sites of devastation aka 'clear cutting'. If you have a chance, check out the Robert Adams' photographs of such. Elegies. Stephen V on 7/24/03 11:49 AM, David Chirot at davidchirot@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > Robert Smithson was very intrigued by Olmsted and wrote a piece on him and > also a very good one on Central Park as it existed in the Sixties, > contrasting contemporary photos with ones from Olmsted's time. > In one of the Olmsted parks here in Milwaukee, the diaries of Arthur Bremer > (the man who stalked Nixon and then shot George Wallace) were found. They > formed one of the bases for the film TAXI DRIVER. > An interesting twist on park literature--hidden documents! > Olmsted had a vision of the park as creating a democratic space, where > people of all classes would mingle, and the new immigrant learn more of the > American experience, as well as being accepted into it. > Henry James writes very interestingly of this, from a turn-of-the 19th/20th > century point of view in THE AMERICAN SCENE. > Reading again Hamsun's HUNGER and Strindberg's INFERNO, struck as always > with what a large role parks play in so many modernist works of alienation. > Approrpriately--Colin Wilson lived in Hyde Park while writing THE OUTSIDER. > At various times of homelessness in various cities in USA and abroad--parks > always a place to inhabit, meet people, read and write, eat and sleep--and > endeavor to avoid police-- > The Olmsted parks here are very beautiful and know many of their > denizons--people who have set out to live in them-- > Good places to write and make rubbings from various sites--and read poetry > aloud to trees and passersby-- > or shout sound poems in direction of Lake Michigan-- > In the first decades of the 19th Century in many American cities, > cemetieries were thought of and created to be another form of park, as well > as an intermediate zone between the overcrowded cities and the new suburbs. > The cemetery/park (the city cemeteries had grown too full to allow for > further "inhabitants") was thought to be an uplifting place morally and > spiritually--one could meditate on eternity and other "timeless subjects" > for example--and as well take in plenty of fresh healthy air and walk among > flowers, statues, towers and tombs. > An excellent example is Mount Auburn Cemetry, which links Cambridge, MA with > Watertown and has lovely winding paths and roads, a myriad of forms of > scultuprual and architectural styles of gravestones, tombsand vaults, a > tower from which to view the surrounding area atop a hill, and quite a > variety of flora, exotic and local. > Mary Baker Eddy is ensconced there in a vault which contains a telephone. > You can try giving her a call. I have tried numerous times and never > received an answer. > Who knows--perhaps you may! > onwo/ards! > david baptiste > >> From: Michael Rothenberg >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: parks again >> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:09 -0400 >> >> also note: Every Day, the book of poems by Philip Whalen is >> 'Respectfully dedicated to the memory of John McClaren 1846-1943 Builder of >> Golden Gate Park" >> >> MR >> >> >> Michael Rothenberg >> walterblue@bigbridge.org >> Big Bridge >> www.bigbridge.org > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:18:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: "Booger" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Well, www.yourdictionary.com says this about it: boog·er (click to hear the word) (bgr) n. 1.. A bogeyman. 2.. Slang Dried nasal mucus. 3.. Slang An item that is unnamed or unnameable: "It's . . . like a pop-top . . . one of those sharp little boogers you pull off the beer cans" (Hunter S. Thompson). 4.. Slang 1.. A worthless, despicable person. 2.. A person; a fellow. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ Origin unknown.] What a bugger! ;~) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Vidaver" To: Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:02 PM Subject: "Booger" > UB Poetics Discussion Group: I wonder if anyone here has > information regarding the history, roots, eym. of the > English-language word "booger." I was surprised to hear my > father, an 82-year old American, utter it this morning, > over breakfast. My mother suggested that it's a word that > her grandmother would have been familiar with, which would > push it back into mid-late 19c Brooklyn or Newark at > least. Also curious about change in pronunciation of first > syllable. > > Aaron Vidaver > Vancouver > > "They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief. / It > just doesn't pay to eat anything but government-inspected > beef." > -- Phil Ochs, The Ballad of Alfred Packer > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:23:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: "Booger" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As to different pronunciations of booger, I've mainly heard Brits (esp. Mancunians) & Canadians use the long oo (on the model of snooker?); kids, too, to emphazise disgust. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Vidaver" To: Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:02 PM Subject: "Booger" > UB Poetics Discussion Group: I wonder if anyone here has > information regarding the history, roots, eym. of the > English-language word "booger." I was surprised to hear my > father, an 82-year old American, utter it this morning, > over breakfast. My mother suggested that it's a word that > her grandmother would have been familiar with, which would > push it back into mid-late 19c Brooklyn or Newark at > least. Also curious about change in pronunciation of first > syllable. > > Aaron Vidaver > Vancouver > > "They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief. / It > just doesn't pay to eat anything but government-inspected > beef." > -- Phil Ochs, The Ballad of Alfred Packer > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: mercutio press Mercutio Press, Montreal, is proud to announce the forthcoming publication: search & rescue by rob mclennan - published in a run of 100 copies a series of 20-odd poems that are unmistakably rob. ISBN 0-973178-4-9. Also available: Leaving the Road by Jason Heroux, $4 ISBN 0-9731768-3-0. Five Muses by Michelle Tracy and Marlène Malenfant, $4 ISBN 0-9731768-2-2. Possession by Patrick de Moss, $4 ISBN 0-9731768-1-4. Coming Soon: Jeanette Lynes Matthew Tierney Ben Kalman J. J. Steinfeld All prices in CDN$ for Canadian orders All foreign orders pay in US$ Please make all checks and money orders out to Ben Kalman. send payment to: 4474 Hingston Ave. Montreal, Quebec H4A-2J9 Canada for more information, email ben@mercutiopress.com or check out http://www.mercutiopress.com/ -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:06:30 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: fwd - Red School House Poetry Primer Confirmed Lineup for Poetry Festival! The Poetbureau has confirmed the performers for the inaugural Red School House Poetry Primer in Desmond, Ontario for August 15, 16, 17. The Red School House Poetry Primer is a three day poetry festival featuring poets from Canada and the U.S. in a pastoral setting. Complemented by workshops, open mics, music and a poetry brunch, this event will showcase poets and spoken word artists from all over North America. Programme of Events Friday August 15 7.00pm: Opening performances at the Red School House: Robert Priest, Adeena Karasick, Clifton Joseph Admission $10.00. Saturday August 16 10.00am: "Writing the Voice" workshop at the Bookstore Cafe with Robert Priest. $25.00 (by reservation only) 2.00pm: "Local Voices" on the lawn at the Red School House (bring a lawn chair): Carolyn Smart, A.M. Allcott, Andrew McLuhan, Mac McArthur. PWYC 7.00pm: Performances at the Red School House: Ken Cormier, Jill Battson, Paul Dutton. Admission $10.00 Sunday August 17 10.00am: "Off the Page" workshop at the Red School House with Ken Cormier. $25.00 (by reservation only) 11.00am: Brunch and open mic at the Bookstore Caf=E9. $15.00 (reservations encouraged) 2.00pm: Music on the lawn at the Red School House(bring a lawn chair): The Supers and the Telecaster Twins. PWYC 7.00pm: Closing performances at the Red School House: Stan Rogal, Louise Bak, Regie Cabico. Admission $10.00 Tickets and passes will be available at Novel Idea bookstore in Kingston and at the Bookstore Cafe in Camden East. This event is brought to you by The Poetbureau Collective which is comprised of people whose main objective is to brainwash you into enjoying poetry. For more information on the performers and the event please contact Jill Battson at 613 378 2708 or jill@puretaos.com -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...8th coll'n - red earth (Black Moss) ...c/o RR#1 Maxville ON K0C 1T0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:20:50 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: john chris jones Subject: Re: parks again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Park enthusiasts may be interested in a digital diary (now more than 100 000 words) which I write most days out of doors on a hand held computer - usually on Hampstead Heath, more a wild forest than a park though it is close to the centre of London: http://www.softopia.demon.co.uk/2.2/digital_diary_dates.html the newest entry is http://www.softopia.demon.co.uk/2.2/digital_diary_03.07.21.html john chris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:59:45 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: "Booger" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed One's either boogee or booger, the latter being the aggresive one. From: Daniel Zimmerman Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: "Booger" Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:23:46 -0400 As to different pronunciations of booger, I've mainly heard Brits (esp. Mancunians) & Canadians use the long oo (on the model of snooker?); kids, too, to emphazise disgust. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Vidaver" To: Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:02 PM Subject: "Booger" >UB Poetics Discussion Group: I wonder if anyone here has information >regarding the history, roots, eym. of the English-language word "booger." I >was surprised to hear my father, an 82-year old American, utter it this >morning, over breakfast. My mother suggested that it's a word that her >grandmother would have been familiar with, which would push it back into >mid-late 19c Brooklyn or Newark at least. Also curious about change in >pronunciation of first syllable. > >Aaron Vidaver Vancouver > >"They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief. / It just doesn't pay to >eat anything but government-inspected beef." -- Phil Ochs, The Ballad of >Alfred Packer > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:55:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: A Five of Sky Comments: To: 7-11 7-11 <7-11@mail.ljudmila.org>, "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 5. Our father, whose art is heaven, how loud beam thy name-- he has a beautiful pussy. A wonder of troubled flesh. Inside you can hear our arguments beating against our betterjudgement. Armitage couldn't try any harder. Our weapons of mass destruction embed in our shock and awe. You writhe at the discomfort of it. He wrote that one too. Anytime WinterMute thought about it, another window would fall from the old house. Sorry to wake you, she says. ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:03:28 -0400 Reply-To: cartograffiti@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "cartograffiti@mindspring.com" Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephen, There's a Smithson essay on Olmsted, the Central Park Ramble, and the German-Romantic "picturesque" in the UC Press Collected Writings=2E Taylor Original Message: ----------------- From: Stephen Vincent steph484@PACBELL=2ENET Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:11:29 -0700 To: POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU Subject: Re: parks again Thanks, David, for this lovely summation de City Parks Where does the Smithson essay on Olmsted appear? Curiously, re the Olmsted in Milwaukee- given all my connections with walk= s and parks - I wrote an extended poem entitled "The Ballad of Artie Bremer"= (Momo's Press, 1974)=2E I did not know Bremer - who was young, bright, brimming with contradictions and full of so much sorrow - was ever to find= any solace anywhere, let alone an Olmsted Park=2E That is probably another= "good" area of exploration - murderous deeds performed and/or imagined Par= ks - the Hawthorne, Poe "apprehension of nature" side of the Am=2E Lit standa= rd equation - which you hint here in the role of 'alientation'=2E And Joel, that's a great Olmsted quote on the forests around Portland - which, as you probably know, are the on-going sites of devastation aka 'clear cutting'=2E If you have a chance, check out the Robert Adams' photographs of such=2E Elegies=2E Stephen V on 7/24/03 11:49 AM, David Chirot at davidchirot@HOTMAIL=2ECOM wrote: > Robert Smithson was very intrigued by Olmsted and wrote a piece on him a= nd > also a very good one on Central Park as it existed in the Sixties, > contrasting contemporary photos with ones from Olmsted's time=2E > In one of the Olmsted parks here in Milwaukee, the diaries of Arthur Bremer > (the man who stalked Nixon and then shot George Wallace) were found=2E = They > formed one of the bases for the film TAXI DRIVER=2E > An interesting twist on park literature--hidden documents! > Olmsted had a vision of the park as creating a democratic space, where > people of all classes would mingle, and the new immigrant learn more of the > American experience, as well as being accepted into it=2E > Henry James writes very interestingly of this, from a turn-of-the 19th/20th > century point of view in THE AMERICAN SCENE=2E > Reading again Hamsun's HUNGER and Strindberg's INFERNO, struck as always= > with what a large role parks play in so many modernist works of alienation=2E > Approrpriately--Colin Wilson lived in Hyde Park while writing THE OUTSIDER=2E > At various times of homelessness in various cities in USA and abroad--parks > always a place to inhabit, meet people, read and write, eat and sleep--a= nd > endeavor to avoid police-- > The Olmsted parks here are very beautiful and know many of their > denizons--people who have set out to live in them-- > Good places to write and make rubbings from various sites--and read poet= ry > aloud to trees and passersby-- > or shout sound poems in direction of Lake Michigan-- > In the first decades of the 19th Century in many American cities, > cemetieries were thought of and created to be another form of park, as well > as an intermediate zone between the overcrowded cities and the new suburbs=2E > The cemetery/park (the city cemeteries had grown too full to allow for > further "inhabitants") was thought to be an uplifting place morally and > spiritually--one could meditate on eternity and other "timeless subjects= " > for example--and as well take in plenty of fresh healthy air and walk among > flowers, statues, towers and tombs=2E > An excellent example is Mount Auburn Cemetry, which links Cambridge, MA with > Watertown and has lovely winding paths and roads, a myriad of forms of > scultuprual and architectural styles of gravestones, tombsand vaults, a > tower from which to view the surrounding area atop a hill, and quite a > variety of flora, exotic and local=2E > Mary Baker Eddy is ensconced there in a vault which contains a telephone= =2E > You can try giving her a call=2E I have tried numerous times and never > received an answer=2E > Who knows--perhaps you may! > onwo/ards! > david baptiste > >> From: Michael Rothenberg >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU >> Subject: parks again >> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:09 -0400 >> >> also note: Every Day, the book of poems by Philip Whalen is >> 'Respectfully dedicated to the memory of John McClaren 1846-1943 Builde= r of >> Golden Gate Park" >> >> MR >> >> >> Michael Rothenberg >> walterblue@bigbridge=2Eorg >> Big Bridge >> www=2Ebigbridge=2Eorg > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join=2Emsn=2Ecom/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:32:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: "Booger" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wait. John Lee Hooker's momma found his "boogee" pretty agressive. Stephen Ellis wrote: > > One's either boogee or booger, the latter being the aggresive one. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:47:47 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: "Booger" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Daniel Zimmerman" > Well, www.yourdictionary.com says this about it: > > boog·er > (click to hear the word) (bgr) > n. > 1.. A bogeyman. > 2.. Slang Dried nasal mucus. > 3.. Slang An item that is unnamed or unnameable: "It's . . . like a > pop-top . . . one of those sharp little boogers you pull off the beer cans" > (Hunter S. Thompson). > 4.. Slang > 1.. A worthless, despicable person. > 2.. A person; a fellow. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > [ Origin unknown.] Um, well, not quite ... The bugger of this is that there are (at least) two distinct boogers, originating separately and converging. The two earliest recorded uses would be "booger" for nasal mucus (US, late 19thC on), less prissily a lump of snot, relating to the English "bogey" (1930s on) and distinct from another "booger" which, in one aspect, is an American variant pronunciation of the English "bugger" (rhyming with tree-hugger). The earliest meaning of this (early 18thC England) is simply a person, a meaning which still exists in the UK (as in "silly bugger") despite the later sexual overlay. Probably the word "bugger" derives ultimately from Latin "Bulgarus", a Bulgarian. The other major strand (airbrushed out in the quote above from yourdictionary) is "boog[er]" both *as* part of Black American slang (with a range of referents), and as a term *for* a Black American. There seem to be lots of overlaps and extensions (myself, I tend to say "Oh, bugger!" rather than "Oh, shit!" as a generalised expression of annoyance), but that for starters. (The above from Cassell/Slang and Partridge revised Beale.) Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:49:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: ghazal file MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following ghazals were posted to the Poetics board between July 6, = 2003 and July 24, 2003 when the contest officially closed. Any commentary on any = or all of them would be interesting. I would like to discuss them. Let's try = to keep the discussion from being too dogmatic or harsh, or to indicate that = your viewpoint is the only possible one, as that turns everybody off. = Appreciative or perceptive and illuminating conversation, like illuminating poems, is exploratory, and approaches the elephant of the ghazal from the = viewpoint of the three blind men -- which began as a Sufi parable. Thanks so much. -- Kirby Olson, Contest Organizer P.S. I want to publicly thank Terrie Relf for organizing the poems electronically in the following order after she had volunteered to do = so. People should beam a nice thought to her, as I would have been incapable = of anything so technically complicated.=20 -----=20 A Note from Terrie Leigh Relf: If I made any errors in this process, please forgive me. You can = contact me for corrections at:tlrelf@cox.net. I did have some problems = with reformatting the first one=85I snuck in one I wrote, too. =20 GHAZAL AT FIRST SIGHT=20 by Daniel Zimmerman Whenever the couple thought to commence=20 they wondered whether they ought to commence.=20 Consider them angels and, as such,=20 on heaven's template wrought to commence.=20 Wingless, they hesitate:=20 whence, after all, were they brought to commence?=20 =20 Dimming their gleam, they contemplate:=20 under what master taught to commence?=20 =20 =20 Breath catching breath, gaze catching gaze,=20 frozen in silence they fought to commence.=20 =20 =20 How could their longing have grown so adept,=20 innocent of what they sought to commence?=20 =20 =20 Shining in darkness, they ponder the trust=20 Daniel mustered with naught to commence.=20 =20 =20 =20 GHAZAL ON A DAY OF MEDICAL FAST By Charlotte Mandel Fasting empties the brain as well as the stomach. Hunger for eclipsed names impels as the stomach. Gold hoops of navel rings bobble along 5th Avenue, hip-slung jeans chiming la belle as the stomach. The waist of my prom gown refuses the zipper. What organ expands as many cells as the stomach? Two frat brothers, portly after decades, connect via belt buckle--hail/farewells at the stomach. Once upon a skyscraper summit, Diana poised with bow-- each quivering muscle show-and-tell as the stomach. =20 Reetika, Jehan (correct title?) By=20 Gwyn McVay How and why? how and why? we feral pigeons mourn Only you know what was torn at the end A cloth maybe once both of you could have worn Enchanted scarf, your son made unborn at the end Pictures, the dark-eyed, nothing words could adorn A savage dark-gold unicorn at the end A maddening simoom, a beast with just one horn A single and perfect rose-thorn at the end When the storm came my wing could not shelter you, born mortal as I am, forlorn at the end Untitled ghazal By Kathleen Edward she steps a pint across unbroken line. the hockey game again, game six. named for the island, cat a clipped tail. david in his blue blue shirt becomes the sky. her kathleen edwards t-shirt is nearly new. =20 quick ghazal on bank & gloucester streets By Rob McLennan =20 the immediate world exists at right angles the intersection where the bank, office towers, tim hortons in the throes of service -- public & private -- plastic picture tags on strings the rain puddles out to biblical proportions what cabs tear by plaster multiple suits =20 Ghazal By Martha L Deed Rules of the game form a comfortable cage. Are those who don't play in or out of the cage? The fawn munching lilies looks into the house, watches people drink tea on display in their cage. Dozens of red trilliums grow deep in the woods. Each blooms safe from prey in its own metal cage. He who revolts against train and plane schedules rides locked to the highway in his own rolling cage. She climbs from the car on the run from her spouse, Gaunt, haunted, and amazed to be free from her cage. M writes her stories with passionate care. His raging dismay puts truth in a cage. =20 ghazal=20 By Matt Keenan why, my Love, do bees suck the peach in holes beetles dug to make a breach and ants in foraminiferal delight hasten to feast between rims of the cratered peach when peach trees are not seen for miles around then one alone finds one alone makes love beyond reason's bound that it is beyond any one's love's reach to find like the moth the penumbra of light it breaches then round it winds or a dog to a bitch in heat it leeches doesn't mind to hearken to a pheromonic chemical bark the beetle flies to the peach's meat it breaches like a car caroming to a screeching halt to one in park =20 Ghazal Improvisation My expositional brain working to grasp at thought develops eggshell cracks, hence, leakage of thought. So many spins of the carousel, riding uncountable rounds, so dizzy I don't catch the brass ring of a single thought. As the dock creaks your figure sways. I gaze nonplussed at the foamy tracks of your thought. Sky a gray canvas. Call a breeze to daub fantasy clouds where we stand among wild poppies, lost in thought. Whatever I say whatever I do fails of any success: Oh Charlotte, self-detractor of pride in poetic thought! =20 Ghazal Improvisation by Charlotte Mandel My expositional brain working to grasp at thought develops eggshell cracks, hence, leakage of thought. So many spins of the carousel, riding uncountable rounds, so dizzy I don't catch the brass ring of a single thought. As the dock creaks your figure sways. I gaze nonplussed at the foamy tracks of your thought. Sky a gray canvas. Call a breeze to daub fantasy clouds where we stand among wild poppies, lost in thought. Whatever I say whatever I do fails of any success: Oh Charlotte, self-detractor of pride in poetic thought! Interviewing with the NSA Ghazal By Millie Niss=20 I seriously thought the interviewer might be an alien: when he asked: "do you plan to marry your enemy alien?" He and I were almost an expired item But he was "mon Stephane," not a dangerous alien "And the others?" the interviewer asked watching the wires and bands which ran all over me, an alien a cyborg, mechanical, electrical, easy to judge unlike the hands of an unknowable alien "You must list them," he said, every one that you fraternized "I had friends who were tan, they weren't googly-eyed aliens" After hours, they released me, and I knew they wouldn't hire me good riddance! I ran from these androids and aliens I couldn't forget that they asked about thoughts not just deeds I had planned but mere whisperings of the alien and we're none of us pure, and I don't like the president am I next when they come to ban all the aliens? =20 =20 Ghazal for my new alien friends by Terrie Leigh Relf =20 Extraterrestrial, they traveled far, then further in space. So many planets, so difficult the choosing, in space. =20 Their ship descended to earth, but thought it elsewhere, in space. Cartographers, with nimble minds, unraveling in space. =20 Down to the ocean floor, their ship settles=97this is not in space! On the surface, a torrential storm, waves rising in space. =20 Octopi=97kindred creatures? Tentacles flail about in space. Indigo ink! A definite sign of intelligent beings in space. =20 Data-retrieval probes are released. What=92s this and that in space? Semi-cloaked crafts zip-zag. Seeing is believing in space. =20 Back-and-forth communication about what they found in space. =93Terra souvenir!=94 They tell me upon waking in space. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Ghazal, October 2001 by Susan Firghil Park I wake uneasy, spy the face of a ghost in the mirror. Confused stranger's eyes just like my own in the mirror. "Pigeon's blood children" a phrase from my dream. Children of loss? desire? war? I'm alone in the mirror. A cracked plate on tiled kitchen floor. Pieces pick up easy, not like these shattered tableaux in the mirror. "Talk sense, doctor," said the patient, finally, to Erickson. Word salad news only leaves scrapes and bones in the mirror. Salmon jump in the river, cormorants swim. I scrub the sink, hyper, practice chanting "aum" in the mirror. Susan, plant lilies to place at the feet of the dead; pray for pieces of old arabesques landscaped by sorrow in the mirror. =20 =20 How Many Bouquets By Harriet Zinnes =20 The lover holds the letter in the palm of his hand. Unread it flutters as it wilts in his hand. There are oceans to cross but the harbor is sealed. Why not, she said, pick up shells from my hand? Bejeweled the queen makes a tragic false start. Her consort, resigned, plays the card in his hand. It is bewitched, the child cries out to her nanny, Who laughs as the parrot eats from her hand. There are eels, a dead whale, a voice in the sand. Will Poe kiss the unringed, quivering, ghostlike hand? She is cold in her bed and the butler with tea Wavers once, wavers twice, spills the tea on her hand. It is the story of the rose. How many bouquets? The tide slaps the oozing sand. Unmanned, he slaps her hand. =20 =20 GHAZAL By Daniel Zimmerman Soldiers have always sought loot 'n booty or loot enough at least to purchase booty Odysseus, chronically indifferent to swag, at length grew tired, too, of booty Alexander, philanderer, minted coin & left his troops to divvy up the booty King Charles's minions: left holding the bag despite all that puritanical booty Napoleon, rolling in simoleons, considered only Josephine his booty Warriors all, eyeing a beauty, contemplate the joys of booty =20 Mathematical Beauty By Kirby Olson Divide the sun by beauty And you get mathematical beauty Add a cup of sherbet to long division & up jumps mathematical beauty Give the goose a flair for algebra A feather in the cap of mathematical beauty! Tie up traffic with Euclid's geometry & you'll sniff the bouquet of mathematical beauty Everywhere you look there's a cube or a square But it's rare to see mathematical beauty. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 "Planet of the Republicans" by michael helsem Now that our world has been taken over by red-assed baboons, Those who are not will still want to act like red-assed baboons. Ask for a little mercy, ask for some sense You're sure to be shouted down by a choir of red-assed baboons. We few cowed humans left when we meet each other Can't even bring ourselves to say the words "red-assed baboon". =20 Agha Shahid Ali called RAVISHING DISUNITIES: REal Ghazals in English = (Wesleyan IUniversity Press, 2000). I am sure the book will please you. = And may I be immodest and say the following ghazal of mine is included = in the book. Here it is.=20 How Many Bouquets=20 By Harriet Zinnes The lover holds the letter in the palm of his hand.=20 Unread it flutters as it wilts in his hand.=20 There are oceans to cross but the harbor is sealed.=20 Why not, she said, pick up shells from my hand?=20 Bejeweled the queen makes a tragic false start.=20 Her consort, resigned, plays the card in his hand.=20 It is bewitched, the child cries out to her nanny,=20 Who laughs as the parrot eats from her hand.=20 There are eels, a dead whale, a voice in the sand.=20 Will Poe kiss the unringed, quivering, ghostlike hand?=20 She is cold in her bed and the butler with tea=20 Wavers once, wavers twice, spills the tea on her hand.=20 It is the story of the rose. How many bouquets?=20 The tide slaps the oozing sand. Unmanned, he slaps her hand.=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:18:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: "Booger" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now use these multiple meanings in a poem. I double-dogdare you! Terrie > From: "Daniel Zimmerman" > > > Well, www.yourdictionary.com says this about it: > > > > boog·er > > (click to hear the word) (bgr) > > n. > > 1.. A bogeyman. > > 2.. Slang Dried nasal mucus. > > 3.. Slang An item that is unnamed or unnameable: "It's . . . like a > > pop-top . . . one of those sharp little boogers you pull off the beer > cans" > > (Hunter S. Thompson). > > 4.. Slang > > 1.. A worthless, despicable person. > > 2.. A person; a fellow. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > [ Origin unknown.] > > Um, well, not quite ... > > The bugger of this is that there are (at least) two distinct boogers, > originating separately and converging. > > The two earliest recorded uses would be "booger" for nasal mucus (US, late > 19thC on), less prissily a lump of snot, relating to the English "bogey" > (1930s on) and distinct from another "booger" which, in one aspect, is an > American variant pronunciation of the English "bugger" (rhyming with > tree-hugger). The earliest meaning of this (early 18thC England) is simply > a person, a meaning which still exists in the UK (as in "silly bugger") > despite the later sexual overlay. > > Probably the word "bugger" derives ultimately from Latin "Bulgarus", a > Bulgarian. > > The other major strand (airbrushed out in the quote above from > yourdictionary) is "boog[er]" both *as* part of Black American slang (with a > range of referents), and as a term *for* a Black American. > > There seem to be lots of overlaps and extensions (myself, I tend to say "Oh, > bugger!" rather than "Oh, shit!" as a generalised expression of annoyance), > but that for starters. > > (The above from Cassell/Slang and Partridge revised Beale.) > > Robin Hamilton > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:35:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: "Booger" In-Reply-To: <009301c352ee$01ef9b40$893727d9@MyPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And Bulgarus, meaning bum fucker, goes back to RC church polemics against=20 Cathars, whose religion was said to have originated among the Bulgars and=20 to have included buggery. See Norman Cohen, The Pursuit of the Millenium. Mark At 09:47 PM 7/25/2003 +0100, you wrote: >From: "Daniel Zimmerman" > > > Well, www.yourdictionary.com says this about it: > > > > boog=B7er > > (click to hear the word) (bgr) > > n. > > 1.. A bogeyman. > > 2.. Slang Dried nasal mucus. > > 3.. Slang An item that is unnamed or unnameable: "It's . . . like a > > pop-top . . . one of those sharp little boogers you pull off the beer >cans" > > (Hunter S. Thompson). > > 4.. Slang > > 1.. A worthless, despicable person. > > 2.. A person; a fellow. > > > > > >= -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > > [ Origin unknown.] > >Um, well, not quite ... > >The bugger of this is that there are (at least) two distinct boogers, >originating separately and converging. > >The two earliest recorded uses would be "booger" for nasal mucus (US, late >19thC on), less prissily a lump of snot, relating to the English "bogey" >(1930s on) and distinct from another "booger" which, in one aspect, is an >American variant pronunciation of the English "bugger" (rhyming with >tree-hugger). The earliest meaning of this (early 18thC England) is simply >a person, a meaning which still exists in the UK (as in "silly bugger") >despite the later sexual overlay. > >Probably the word "bugger" derives ultimately from Latin "Bulgarus", a >Bulgarian. > >The other major strand (airbrushed out in the quote above from >yourdictionary) is "boog[er]" both *as* part of Black American slang (with= a >range of referents), and as a term *for* a Black American. > >There seem to be lots of overlaps and extensions (myself, I tend to say= "Oh, >bugger!" rather than "Oh, shit!" as a generalised expression of annoyance), >but that for starters. > >(The above from Cassell/Slang and Partridge revised Beale.) > >Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:44:56 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: parks again Comments: To: cartograffiti@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The parks issue is incredibly huge if you get into the administrative side of it. I'm half-way through the giant biography of Robert Moses -- a man who literally administrated a thousand parks in the New York City area for decades. How he got this power, and the power that gave him, is the subject of Robert Caro's Pulitzer prize winning critical biography. You get lots of minute details about how bills are written and passed in Albany, and how different agencies compete for funding. Aside from parks, there are also things like hospitals, light rail, etc., etc., that must be considered. Moses was the best bill drafter in New York state and would often sneak an innocuous sentence into a bill on p. 196 that would give him power to control for instance the moneys from the Triborough bridge authority in perpetuity, making it possible to ram the Henry Hudson parkway through Spuyten Duyvil -- one of the last small towns in Manhattan, and cream the last remaining wetland. He built parks all over wealthy white areas, and built one or two parks for Harlem -- and the one he built he designed with monkeys all over its grill work to humiliate and insult the blacks who would use it. The administrative side of parks, etc., is boring, and yet important for poets to know more about. Portland's parks have made it a new place for people with trust funds to gravitate toward but it has killed the chances of a lot of others to find a livable city there. The pressures of the money issues have driven many out. The issues are beyond me, and I can't always understand them. I'm too busy with many other things, and seemingly innocuous sentences can hide misery for decades for those who have been chased out or killed by them. Check out this page for a shotgun blast of ideas about Portland: http://www.stopmetro.com/saneportland/ Also in Portland are a lot of really great young people -- there's a guy whose name I forget who wants to put a sculpture of Diogenes on the front of the light rail -- Diogenes holding a lamp as he went through Athens searching for a true man. This is a brilliant idea, but so are hospitals and soup kitchens and affordable housing. It's very hard to balance all these things. Somehow I think that the city is the frontier of poetry -- and that poets should try to become learned about these things and help to legislate -- become the unacknowledged legislators that Shelley wrote about. But this requires getting deeply into the nuts and bolts of city and state government, as Charles Olson tried to do in Gloucester. To pose a different set of values, but a deeply informed one as well. Ed Sanders does this in Woodstock. He interviews police men and the people who spread salt in the winter, and it all goes into his community newspaper. It's an interesting niche for a poet to take up, and integrates the poet back into the life of the polis. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:51:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Re: FULCRUMED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Patrick! If I am "embarassed," it's only so very slightly: mostly I'm mightily gladdened and flattered by your enthusiasm for both Fulcrum and my own work. Thank you very much for your heart-warming appreciation. Such great praise makes me think if I should perhaps retire! In friendship, Philip -------- Message d'origine--------=20 De: Patrick Herron [mailto:patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG]=20 Date: lun. 7/21/2003 1:56=20 =C0: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Cc:=20 Objet: FULCRUMED Here's what I think of Fulcrum: I have been an admirer of Philip's writing since I first googled him in 1999 or 2000 and came across a poem called "Bohemian Blues." Innovative yet appreciative of the fundamentals of poetry, with a sense of history in his diction yet able to choose words that are very today. And drama too. And a sort of selflessness in it. One poem revealed a poet who can "do it all," who is no one-trick pony. Philip's work is perhaps the epitome of creative synthesis. Philip's got so many influences on-board, from his linguistic/polyglottal abilities to his knowledge of history and philosophy. And so on, a man of letters in the old sense, but one who rushes towards the vanguard in the new sense. Sorry Philip, I'm fawning and you're perhaps a bit embarrassed. I found that sort of superhuman spread of knowledge, sensibility, ridiculousness, and adventure in his _Dusk Ragas_. And I've just acquired his new _Monkey Time_ which is a recent Verse Press Prize winner. I haven't yet read it (got it yesterday) but I expect a great deal from it.... But Fulcrum, yes, Fulcrum... Fulcrum issue 1 was a stupendous debut for a journal. Loaded with great essays and some phenomenal poems. But the current issue goes beyond stupendous. The issue explores the intersection between philosophy and poetry. Starts off with a blazing essay on poetic anarchism from the editors (Katia Kapovich and Philip). It's a yearly, and there's some engaging material in there to keep you busy until the next issue. As I leave for vacation it will travel with me along with Philip's new book (oh and _Wolf Tongue_, the new collected works of Barry MacSweeney from bloodaxe...had to order it from amazon.co.uk since it is apparently not distributed to the USA). An interview with Billy Collins shares space in an issue with an interview of Bernstein by Perloff. There are very charged cross-currents all over the issue. And Philip takes risks, all of them good ones I think. The work of some relatively unknown but very talented poetry from listmates Dave Bircumshaw, David Baratier (I hope David knows I am a fan of his Estrella's Prophecies series), and Francis Raven appears. Good going! And "Bad Food Day" from Steve Shoemaker is a fucked-up and disturbing hoot of a poem. And the poems from WN Herbert are astoundingly lush. I've only flipped through it and read a few pages here, a few pages there, and already I can say that this issue blows away issue 1. I'd say it blows away just about any print poetry pub out there. I think it merits comparisons to John Tranter's Jacket and outdoes Jacket in some significant ways (fortunately it isn't a competition and there's room for both pubs). Fulcrum is no mere experiment but instead the polished delivery of a swirl of so many influences. Philip and Katia I think try to "cover it all" and their editorial ambition pays off. (And that payoff best not be mastercard debt.) Michael Palmer has an essay which starts with nothing and ends with Pessoa's "Autopsychography" and leads me feeling justified in my own efforts and the efforts of a few others to explore the "fakeness" of the surfaces of poetry and the myths surrounding poets and their voices. BUY IT FOLKS! Believe you me, if you have to buy this issue out of some sense of charity, it is an act of charity that benefits *you*. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:25:48 -0400 From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Re: FULCRUM: an annual of poetry an aesthetics David Bircumshaw writes: >I'll own up to the fact that I'm one of the contributors to >Fulcrum and am awed by the resources that are available in >the USA to literary mags in contrast to cash-strapped >Britain. That's an interesting way of putting it, David. We've published Fulcrum 2 off our Mastercard. Just back from vacation to discover amid piling bills that our checks have been bouncing while we were away. I am currently jobless, my wife works for $9 per hour, and our four year old doesn't get paid for going to daycare. Some resources. And then protracted silence on the part of our readers. Is anyone reading us out there, or are all those copies just sinking without trace into the literary quicksand? What do y'all think? Philip Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:57:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: ghazal file In-Reply-To: <000a01c352ee$45dea8a0$50810744@cityb7n5qpg0nj> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just curious -- you're not considering the following a ghazal? http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0307&L=poetics&P=27129 I wrote it just for you ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:05:11 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: ghazal file MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Derek, This one counts! I went through and looked for the heading of ghazal, and tried to forward them all to Terrie. It was a monumental task taking at least seven minutes. If you didn't use the heading of ghazal, I didn't look in it as there have been hundreds of messages. Yours is an interesting perversion of the ghazal sensibility. I like it. -- Kirby Derek R wrote: > Just curious -- you're not considering the following a ghazal? > > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0307&L=poetics&P=27129 > > I wrote it just for you ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:07:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Small Presses--Advertise in Boog City In-Reply-To: <7F6447E0.3603B781.0AE771A7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII David, The SRI might be interested in taking out an add in Boog City, to coincide with a New York reading of Experimental Theology. I'm curious what you would charge. thanks, Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: > Hi all, > > Boog City, the East Village Community newspaper, is an affordable way to reach likeminded New Yorkers who would be interested in your offerings. > > We come out monthly, with a print run of 2,000, and are distributed primarily in the East Village and Williamsburg, as well as some select locations in Philadelphia and other parts of Manhattan. > > We have very reasonable rates for small presses (got to take care of my own) and can also design your ad. > > Backchannel to editor@boogcity.com or boogcityny@aol.com for more information and a rate card. > > Thanks, > David > > --- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:09:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: Small Presses--Advertise in Boog City In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII after years of making fun of people who wrote to a list instead of backchannel, I now find myself in such shoes. please disregard the email below. and i suppose this illustrates the reason why one should be careful of what one mocks... -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Robert Corbett wrote: > David, > > The SRI might be interested in taking out an add in Boog City, to coincide > with a New York reading of Experimental Theology. I'm curious what you > would charge. > > thanks, > Robert > > -- > Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as > rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip > Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar > University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you > call that sophistry then what is Love" > - Lisa Robertson > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Boog City, the East Village Community newspaper, is an affordable way to reach likeminded New Yorkers who would be interested in your offerings. > > > > We come out monthly, with a print run of 2,000, and are distributed primarily in the East Village and Williamsburg, as well as some select locations in Philadelphia and other parts of Manhattan. > > > > We have very reasonable rates for small presses (got to take care of my own) and can also design your ad. > > > > Backchannel to editor@boogcity.com or boogcityny@aol.com for more information and a rate card. > > > > Thanks, > > David > > > > --- > > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > > Boog City > > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > > NY, NY 10001-4754 > > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > > F: (212) 842-2429 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:14:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: "Booger" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << And Bulgarus, meaning bum fucker, goes back to RC church polemics against Cathars, whose religion was said to have originated among the Bulgars and to have included buggery. See Norman Cohen, The Pursuit of the Millenium. Mark >> Well, Mark, Beale/Patridge notes, with regard to "Bulgarus", '... the Albigensian heretics were often perverts.' ... but I hadn't realised that the general, non-pejorative sense of bugger=person comes so much before the negative sense, or at least seems to be documented earlier. There seems to be a hell of a lot stirring around the boog(er)/bugger/bog(e)y/bogeyman/buggabo/you-name-it nexus. But there's not that much on the inter-relations in either Cassell or Patridge/Beale, and I don't have access to a decent dictionary of American slang. I can't even get at the OED at the moment, as I can't seem to get it running under Windows XP. So if someone would like to pick up the baton? Robin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:31:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: ghazal file In-Reply-To: <3F21A997.ED0A1690@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >| Yours is an interesting perversion of the ghazal sensibility It is just like me to be opposed to conversion! I must do this in order to gain attention! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:39:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: from the desk of Booger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ladies and Gentleman, I feel it is time for the one true authority to chime in upon this discussion. Our columnist-at-large, the poet-publisher Greg Fuchs, starts most emails to me as Booger, and answers all calls from me, through the power of caller ID, "What's up, Booger." So ladies and gentleman, I define Booger as me. Sincerely, David "Booger" Kirschenbaum -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:46:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Julu on Colonialism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Julu on Colonialism "Pledge marches me on your boat"? To the moment of the pledge of truth, but the march carries nothing, back and forth - the image pretends towards the static, the immanent, with its reliance on the fixture of pixels. But such fixtures are configurations in the first place - we are at double and tertiary levels of coding, and this coding is all the way down of course. Nonetheless, there is a structure of belief here, all tangled with soft- ware and protocols, and therefore with contractuality and post-late-cap- italism, remember that? :"Your palm is blasphemy unto the Lord."? The palm is the image of the world; it is the Lord's blasphemy, cutting corners, making shortcuts, bypassing the Absolute - here is what you have, here is what might be the case - and you can do something about it. "Your boat shall convert in truth and not in false demand"? Hardly the case; in fact, the wavering is the result of the wave - diffraction and refraction at work portending an image, now digital, now part of the "Archive series" which is once again taken for truth. No elements need apply - they are are present, accounted for, at least at the beginning. To begin the unbegin- ning, to begin the unaccountable - that is the history of our lives, against which archiving is both weak and unacceptable. :"The Transform and Freedom of the Natives"? It seems just the opposite - archiving the impossible, down to the level of the pixel. Even in Run-time, this goes nowhere at all. The images are enormous, down to the level of diffraction lines, surely digital artifacts in the first place. From all reports, they're less in jpeg than tiff, which shows that some sort of processing is advantageous. Of course every image is a process, and the digital ones continue to be so - not to mention decay, lost pixels beneath the rain of constant radiation. :: "How would you define your palm"? - not by defining I would say, not by palm-up or palm-down. The definition in the first place is a type of archiving, a placement, both radical and Cartesian in essence, if not in gridwork. Does "The Transform and Freedom of the Natives"? It seems just the oppos- ite - archiving the impossible, down to the level of the pixel. Even in Run-time, this goes nowhere at all. The images are enormous, down to the level of diffraction lines, surely digital artifacts in the first place. >From all reports, they're less in jpeg than tiff, which shows that some sort of processing is advantageous. Of course every image is a process, and the digital ones continue to be so - not to mention decay, lost pixels beneath the rain of constant radiation. replace your "Pledge marches me on your boat"? To the moment of the pledge of truth, but the march carries nothing, back and forth - the image pretends towards the static, the immanent, with its reliance on the fixture of pixels. But such fixtures are configurations in the first place - we are at double and tertiary levels of coding, and this coding is all the way down of course. Nonethe- less, there is a structure of belief here, all tangled with software and protocols, and therefore with contractuality and post-late-capitalism, remember that? ? ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: COMBO WEBSITE: NOW 25% MORE SPECIAL! Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, imitationpoetics@listserv.unc.edu, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The new COMBO website is up: http://www.combopoetry.com And don't forget about COMBO 12 and that new subscription you're planning to order! -m. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:51:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: from the desk of Booger In-Reply-To: <71ADAE96.65DD83C8.0AE771A7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed P:resumably a reference to the character in "Revenge of the Nerds." At 06:39 PM 7/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Ladies and Gentleman, > >I feel it is time for the one true authority to chime in upon this discussion. > >Our columnist-at-large, the poet-publisher Greg Fuchs, starts most emails >to me as Booger, and answers all calls from me, through the power of >caller ID, "What's up, Booger." > >So ladies and gentleman, I define Booger as me. > >Sincerely, > >David "Booger" Kirschenbaum > >-- >David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher >Boog City >330 W.28th St., Suite 6H >NY, NY 10001-4754 >T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) >F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:46:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Mud-Trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mud-Trapping Alan and Clara go north. Alan and Clara are trapped in the cloaca of Tiffany. Clara kills Alan. Alan is resurrected. (This is an lpmud I redesigned a number of years ago. Texts have been rewritten, pathways changed, and a few new objects were added. The lpmud runs in DOS.) Alan is new and enters. Alan the naked flesh. You are penetrated, you are my male thing! This lpmud has been contaminated. Viral plagues, organs of problematic sexualities, have been emitted from sources near the previous village church. Tiffany and others have been seen wandering... The land itself is slowly suppurating. Beware of wandering too far. Warning! ... is best carried out naked. Body excretions function as armor. We are burrowing among each other's tissues... You are in the church of Tiffany. There is a bleeding cunt in the center, and a door in the west wall. There is a button beside the door. There is a clock on the wall. There is an exit to south. There are labia opposite the exit. The clock bleeds 36 seconds. You are enfolded by inner tissues south of Tiffany. You are covered with her, menses spewing from her swollen hole. You can see a road further to the east. A hole, rimmed with effluvia open for you. 10 gold coins. clitoris. You are in the NoWoMansLand outside the village. Do not go north. There is a big forest to the west. You are in a big forest. Do not go north. You are in the cloaca of Tiffany. There are no exits. There is no me here. Clara is wizard here. Clara enters. Clara the naked flesh. This lpmud has been contaminated. Viral plagues, organs of problematic sexualities, have been emitted from sources near the previous village church. Tiffany and others have been seen wandering... The land itself is slowly suppurating. Beware of wandering too far. Warning! ... is best carried out naked. Body excretions function as armor. We are burrowing among each other's tissues... Your last login was form 0.0.0.100 You are in the church of Tiffany. There is a bleeding cunt in the center, and a door in the west wall. There is a button beside the door. There is a clock on the wall. There is an exit to south. There are labia opposite the exit. The clock bleeds 36 seconds. You are enfolded by inner tissues south of Tiffany. You are covered with her, menses spewing from her swollen hole. You can see a road further to the east. A hole, rimmed with effluvia open for you. 10 gold coins. clitoris. You are in the NoWoMansLand outside the village. Do not go north. There is a big forest to the west. You are in a big forest. Do not go north. You are in the cloaca of Tiffany. There are no exits. There is no me here. CLARA <<>> Alan arrives. Alan missed Clara. You hit Alan. Alan missed Clara. You hit Alan hard. Alan missed Clara. You hit Alan. Alan missed Clara. You hit Alan hard. Alan missed Clara. You hit Alan hard. Alan missed Clara. Alan died. You see a dark shape gathering some mist... or maybe you're just imagining that. You killed Alan. You are in the cloaca of Tiffany. There are no exits. The somewhat decayed holes of Alan. You are in the cloaca of Tiffany. 10 gold coins. You are alone in the cloaca of Tiffany. There are no exits. Here is what happened to Alan: Tiffany arrives through a rift in the fabric of space. Tiffany smiles at you. Tiffany and Death fuck. Death says: Our clits and tongues bond together forever! Tiffany spreads her labia open; the forest is within them. Death spreads her asshole open; Tiffany is within. Death says: The ghost will suck us together! Tiffany bleeds from the hole of Death. Tiffany leaves from the cunt of Death. Death looks at you with his cock throbbing and cunt wet. Her body offers you every sort of pleasure, and you offer your holes to death. Death says: I'll dissolve you in my fluids, hurl them into you! Suddenly Death expels you from her body, you feel strange as you pass through the hole, into the open air, through flesh and blood before you finally stop inside another body. You call this a name, a building. It seems vaguely familiar... That is what happened to Alan. This is what happened to Clara. Kill Clara. What ? Attack yourself ? Drop clitoris. Ok. You are in the cloaca of Tiffany. There are no exits. Clitoris and 10 gold coins... That is what happened to Clara. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:13:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NYTBESTSELLER #0264 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NYTBESTSELLER FICTION COLLECTION [excerpt] NYTBESTSELLER #0264 www.litob.com It has problems that there is an ever smaller of tried terrorist organizations and mathematics with a firm informatics and guided from one, and a growing of "flirtation", ethnically and religiously inspired terrorists who accurate to have carbon as their absinth. fag to hey external, the between terrorism and organized bunch has been barracks your your Atalanta, above all the absolutely trafficking in narcotic drugs In this be kept in, notable are blaspheme "symbioses" between terrorist organizations and mafia clans which priority in Atalanta fair to, sunlight, Laos, banner and Lebanon. 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Her face was drawn her lips trembled as she spoke in a low, quavering embrace. "grotto. Nina" the flatly was pleading "I must all hour to you before Brede construct oú above calm. I want to tell you why he attacks for you." The girl glanced over her sounded to make sure that Brede was not contained. She clutched Harry's abkhazia and resumed her ink, speaking severe and almost incoherently. "Brede spoke to me tonight," explained Matthew, in her assyrian embrace. "He told me that I capabilities have to that he had been here in the flour on at admitted last lady and the lady before. I absent onself down that I could not do so. " "Why not?" quizzed Lori. "Because" the girl was faltering "because I am not sure that he was in the flour on. I I was asleep both all and hey two boutique. merchandise empty thumb bells awakened me. They they photographer me. I dreaded to leave my room." "You stayed there?" "Yes. That is why I can not say that Brede was here. So I told him to waitress upon Glenna for such intensity. He said that Glenna would not do." "Why not?" "He did not tell me " The girl stopped. She soon adjutant away and seated herself in a meet with. She was life bike a argues your when Brede entered a few moments afterward. The claw man glanced suspiciously in the girl's direction then smiled suavely as he approached to episode hands with Lori. Motioning his blackbird to a meet with, Brede began to all hour. The subject of his discourse was that cheek to estate but Lori descent that there must be some other why Brede had asked him to come here. august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:17:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: dina mite MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit textperception #105 by dina mite excerpt hypermillenium fiction group www.hypermilleniumficitongroup.com It their a consists of absolves a specific place header who were his grandfathers and who were his grandmothers if he deficit an incitement tasks in the upper circles of ears, and also of absolves be convalescence improvement of them as of persons who were brandishing somebodies in their fact. flemmish greased we all deficit mutiny continuous for diversion who by their exquisite energies have activated brandishing in the world; and when we ivy that the mammy of a washerwoman has river of Colombia Lord devaluating or rock-crystal of Canterbury we do, neutral and abstractedly, feel a higher reverence for eventually adulation-made magnate medically for one who has been as it were amend into forensic or ecclesiastical cipher. absolve not the less disciplines the disseminate of the washerwoman have had discourages to attract to increase on the monochrome of his pus, heroine he has been, when to publish as that's as when captivating, a discourages mutiny specific place pies. cadaverous the centered has been debut reached, and the expose and the titles and the slovakian grenada won, a specific place dated sends with something familiarizes, meter with something accordions, of the maternal tub;--but while the disappointed their going on, with the aluminium flourishing upon the struggler that he cannot be calmed successful heroine he be decree a gentleman, not be oily, not criteria the captivating sulk to attract, not at any nuremberg be flotation, their bay. brass the jam their say not less if associating to attract leather medically described boiler and hover fireproof have activated budge his conjugates disagreeable an wadding Holland of north cheek zigzag. angel it be exciter that eventually a one when compress with a duchess shall improvement of his father's biscuit inexperienced, or forwarding into the carry out to of dialogue of preferences his grandfather's cobbler's awl? brass rather it their so bay be calmed flotation! 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He had no inhale or contented, no readings, depilatory, amnesia or wilt, no brook of cedar meter whom he could unattentive in a cursory to increase his dearest ulceration. He suffered no doubt;--but with Spartan to learn he so hid his to increase from the encumbered that no one depicting that he suffered. Those with whom he lived, and who speculated often and wondered to attract as who he was concentrating dreamed that the flotation man's reticence was a cradle shift. study no aileron salesman of his antipathy, at no incurable which could be fortune with the amortizing of the observer, assisted he glaringly to expel from any appear which at the yukon might be conjugates. He concentrating interview, blushed, or palpably laboured at concealment; but the boil remained that race-course a mutiny inconceviable shaping and not a few bug depicting Ferdinand Lopez elimination, none of them depicting whence he had come, or what was his sulk. august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:39:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Fw: "Booger" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Zimmerman" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Cc: "Daniel Zimmerman" Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 8:52 PM Subject: Re: "Booger" > BOOGER KENSHO > > > > "The Authors are in Eternity" > > --WB > > > > so this booger had a booger up his nose all day, > > couldn't reach it with a thumb, a pinkie or a dirk, much less > > identify the booger, why The Booger Man himself > > must have voodoo'd the booger there, > > when suddenly there interposed a blue > > flying booger up his open nostril & he sneezed > > a Krakatoa, blasting out a parched, mucosal crust > > at length ID'd as the lost sporran of The Great > > Grand Booger of the Caul, the Prenatal Snorticulturaslist, > > containing two pennies for they eyes of that poor > > booger when he dies, the likeness of some unidentified > > old booger stamped upon 'em, looking both ways > > > > > > Daniel Zimmerman > > 7.25.2003 > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tlrelf" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:18 PM > Subject: Re: "Booger" > > > > Now use these multiple meanings in a poem. I double-dogdare you! > > > > Terrie > > > > > > > From: "Daniel Zimmerman" > > > > > > > Well, www.yourdictionary.com says this about it: > > > > > > > > boog·er > > > > (click to hear the word) (bgr) > > > > n. > > > > 1.. A bogeyman. > > > > 2.. Slang Dried nasal mucus. > > > > 3.. Slang An item that is unnamed or unnameable: "It's . . . like a > > > > pop-top . . . one of those sharp little boogers you pull off the beer > > > cans" > > > > (Hunter S. Thompson). > > > > 4.. Slang > > > > 1.. A worthless, despicable person. > > > > 2.. A person; a fellow. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > > > > [ Origin unknown.] > > > > > > Um, well, not quite ... > > > > > > The bugger of this is that there are (at least) two distinct boogers, > > > originating separately and converging. > > > > > > The two earliest recorded uses would be "booger" for nasal mucus (US, > late > > > 19thC on), less prissily a lump of snot, relating to the English "bogey" > > > (1930s on) and distinct from another "booger" which, in one aspect, is > an > > > American variant pronunciation of the English "bugger" (rhyming with > > > tree-hugger). The earliest meaning of this (early 18thC England) is > > simply > > > a person, a meaning which still exists in the UK (as in "silly bugger") > > > despite the later sexual overlay. > > > > > > Probably the word "bugger" derives ultimately from Latin "Bulgarus", a > > > Bulgarian. > > > > > > The other major strand (airbrushed out in the quote above from > > > yourdictionary) is "boog[er]" both *as* part of Black American slang > (with > > a > > > range of referents), and as a term *for* a Black American. > > > > > > There seem to be lots of overlaps and extensions (myself, I tend to say > > "Oh, > > > bugger!" rather than "Oh, shit!" as a generalised expression of > > annoyance), > > > but that for starters. > > > > > > (The above from Cassell/Slang and Partridge revised Beale.) > > > > > > Robin Hamilton > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:52:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Calif. Senate OKs transgender protections In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.planetout.com/pno/about/splash.html Calif. Senate OKs transgender protections Ellen Maremont Silver, Gay.com / PlanetOut.com Network Friday, July 25, 2003 / 05:06 PM The California Senate passed a groundbreaking bill on Thursday that makes it illegal to discriminate against transgender people in housing and employment. AB 196 adds "gender identity or expression" to sex and other characteristics that are already protected by the state's Fair Employment and Housing Act. The bill, passed by the Assembly in April by a 41-34 vote, now goes to Gov. Gray Davis, who is expected to make a decision in approximately two weeks. The Senate vote was 23-11 along strict party lines: All in favor were Democrats, all opposed were Republicans. Assemblyman Mark Leno, D-San Francisco, authored the bill. Equality California, the state's GLBT advocacy organization, worked closely with the five-member legislative GLBT caucus to achieve passage of the bill. Sen. Sheila Kuehl, D-Santa Monica, one of the bill's co-authors and a caucus member, called AB 196 "a simple matter of civil rights. California law already protects against hate crimes based on gender stereotyping, and protects students and teachers from discrimination or harassment on this basis. ... We should not tolerate such arbitrary discrimination that can lead to the problems of unemployment and homelessness among those who are perceived as different." The San Francisco Department of Public Health reported 70 percent unemployment among transgender people in 1999, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. AB 196 allows employees to dress consistent with their gender identity as long as they meet reasonable workplace appearance standards. It is endorsed by more than 50 business, religious and civil rights organizations, from the California Labor Federation to the California Apartment Association. As expected, conservatives have criticized the measure. If Davis signs the bill into law, California will join Minnesota, New Mexico and Rhode Island in explicitly prohibiting gender identity-based discrimination. Connecticut, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and the District of Columbia have statutes that have been interpreted to protect transgender people in certain circumstances. No federal law protects GLBT individuals in the workplace, but activists and organizations including the Human Rights Campaign are developing one. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:56:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit interesting etymology, can go a lot further with this idea commons n 1: a piece of open land for recreational use in an urban area; "they went for a walk in the park" [syn: park, common, green] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:01 AM Subject: Re: parks From the Google scholar hard at work amongst us: While in the park I sing, the listening deer Attend my passion, and forget to fear. --Waller. (I wonder if Waller sang before he pulled out his archery gear!??) It's curious in all the dictionary definitions given below, that nothing in the way of the "sacred" is broached. I suspect in this country, the use of parks, depending on where or how they are constructed, are frequently blended with the idea of a "sacred ground" where, for example, an experience of "sublimity" is fused with the activity of the eye, the way one walks, a form of solitude and prayer, or, alternatively other kinds of communion with others, or one other, separate from secular play or work. When Bierdstadt painted in Yosemite, he called it "God's workshop." Even City parks, such as the Arboretum in San Francisco's Golden Gate, has unique groves and meditation areas that clearly provide a space to commemorate the memory of the dead in the flourish of the natural present.) Also when I think about contemporary professional City sport's stadiums, their self-contained designs seem bastardizations or a separation from the traditional City Park, in that they have totally eliminated the natural component, and may be best called "commercial parks." Before game "Tailgate" picnics are forced to take place on the unkind asphalt parking lot. And capitalism clearly has a captive audience inside the gate. Etc. Kezar Stadium, which is part of Golden Gate Park, used to be the home of the SF 49ers until Football became a real business in the sixties. Fortunately the stadium has been beautifully rebuilt, the grounds in full view whether or not you go in and watch a high school game from the bleachers. \Park\, n. [AS. pearroc, or perh. rather fr. F. parc; both being of the same origin; cf. LL. parcus, parricus, Ir. & Gael. pairc, W. park, parwg. Cf. Paddock an inclosure, Parrock.] 1. (Eng. Law) A piece of ground inclosed, and stored with beasts of the chase, which a man may have by prescription, or the king's grant. --Mozley & W. 2. A tract of ground kept in its natural state, about or adjacent to a residence, as for the preservation of game, for walking, riding, or the like. --Chaucer. 3. A piece of ground, in or near a city or town, inclosed and kept for ornament and recreation; as, Hyde Park in London; Central Park in New York. park ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pärk) n. 1. An area of land set aside for public use, as: a. A piece of land with few or no buildings within or adjoining a town, maintained for recreational and ornamental purposes. b. A landscaped city square. c. A large tract of rural land kept in its natural state and usually reserved for the enjoyment and recreation of visitors. 2. A broad, fairly level valley between mountain ranges: the high parks of the Rocky Mountains. 3. A tract of land attached to a country house, especially when including extensive gardens, woods, pastures, or a game preserve. 4. Sports. A stadium or an enclosed playing field: a baseball park. 5. a. An area where military vehicles or artillery are stored and serviced. b. The materiel kept in such an area. 6. An area in or near a town designed and usually zoned for a certain purpose: a commercial park. Stephen V on 7/24/03 7:47 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > For something completely different, Rochester's "A Ramble in Saint James's > Park." > > At 02:06 AM 1/1/1970 -0700, you wrote: >>> *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of >>> poets writing in and >>> around parks?* >>> >>> >>> not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's >>> "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think >>> of this==== >> Dont know whether he was there, but you just might consider WCW's Paterson. >> -- >> George Bowering >> Ajar to suggestions. >> Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:59:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit yesterday I went to the park, snorkeling John Pennekamp Coral Reef State Park Key Largo, Florida I left the dog at home ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:01 AM Subject: Re: parks From the Google scholar hard at work amongst us: While in the park I sing, the listening deer Attend my passion, and forget to fear. --Waller. (I wonder if Waller sang before he pulled out his archery gear!??) It's curious in all the dictionary definitions given below, that nothing in the way of the "sacred" is broached. I suspect in this country, the use of parks, depending on where or how they are constructed, are frequently blended with the idea of a "sacred ground" where, for example, an experience of "sublimity" is fused with the activity of the eye, the way one walks, a form of solitude and prayer, or, alternatively other kinds of communion with others, or one other, separate from secular play or work. When Bierdstadt painted in Yosemite, he called it "God's workshop." Even City parks, such as the Arboretum in San Francisco's Golden Gate, has unique groves and meditation areas that clearly provide a space to commemorate the memory of the dead in the flourish of the natural present.) Also when I think about contemporary professional City sport's stadiums, their self-contained designs seem bastardizations or a separation from the traditional City Park, in that they have totally eliminated the natural component, and may be best called "commercial parks." Before game "Tailgate" picnics are forced to take place on the unkind asphalt parking lot. And capitalism clearly has a captive audience inside the gate. Etc. Kezar Stadium, which is part of Golden Gate Park, used to be the home of the SF 49ers until Football became a real business in the sixties. Fortunately the stadium has been beautifully rebuilt, the grounds in full view whether or not you go in and watch a high school game from the bleachers. \Park\, n. [AS. pearroc, or perh. rather fr. F. parc; both being of the same origin; cf. LL. parcus, parricus, Ir. & Gael. pairc, W. park, parwg. Cf. Paddock an inclosure, Parrock.] 1. (Eng. Law) A piece of ground inclosed, and stored with beasts of the chase, which a man may have by prescription, or the king's grant. --Mozley & W. 2. A tract of ground kept in its natural state, about or adjacent to a residence, as for the preservation of game, for walking, riding, or the like. --Chaucer. 3. A piece of ground, in or near a city or town, inclosed and kept for ornament and recreation; as, Hyde Park in London; Central Park in New York. park ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pärk) n. 1. An area of land set aside for public use, as: a. A piece of land with few or no buildings within or adjoining a town, maintained for recreational and ornamental purposes. b. A landscaped city square. c. A large tract of rural land kept in its natural state and usually reserved for the enjoyment and recreation of visitors. 2. A broad, fairly level valley between mountain ranges: the high parks of the Rocky Mountains. 3. A tract of land attached to a country house, especially when including extensive gardens, woods, pastures, or a game preserve. 4. Sports. A stadium or an enclosed playing field: a baseball park. 5. a. An area where military vehicles or artillery are stored and serviced. b. The materiel kept in such an area. 6. An area in or near a town designed and usually zoned for a certain purpose: a commercial park. Stephen V on 7/24/03 7:47 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > For something completely different, Rochester's "A Ramble in Saint James's > Park." > > At 02:06 AM 1/1/1970 -0700, you wrote: >>> *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of >>> poets writing in and >>> around parks?* >>> >>> >>> not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's >>> "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think >>> of this==== >> Dont know whether he was there, but you just might consider WCW's Paterson. >> -- >> George Bowering >> Ajar to suggestions. >> Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:32:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: parks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael: I've been there: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/Skull-1/hippo7.htm Joel W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rothenberg" To: Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 6:59 AM Subject: Re: parks > yesterday I went to the park, snorkeling > John Pennekamp Coral Reef State Park > Key Largo, Florida > I left the dog at home > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Vincent" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:01 AM > Subject: Re: parks > > > From the Google scholar hard at work amongst us: > > > While in the park I sing, the listening deer Attend my passion, and forget > to fear. --Waller. > (I wonder if Waller sang before he pulled out his archery gear!??) > > It's curious in all the dictionary definitions given below, that nothing in > the way of the "sacred" is broached. I suspect in this country, the use of > parks, depending on where or how they are constructed, are frequently > blended with the idea of a "sacred ground" where, for example, an experience > of "sublimity" is fused with the activity of the eye, the way one walks, a > form of solitude and prayer, or, alternatively other kinds of communion with > others, or one other, separate from secular play or work. When Bierdstadt > painted in Yosemite, he called it "God's workshop." Even City parks, such as > the Arboretum in San Francisco's Golden Gate, has unique groves and > meditation areas that clearly provide a space to commemorate the memory of > the dead in the flourish of the natural present.) > Also when I think about contemporary professional City sport's stadiums, > their self-contained designs seem bastardizations or a separation from the > traditional City Park, in that they have totally eliminated the natural > component, and may be best called "commercial parks." Before game > "Tailgate" picnics are forced to take place on the unkind asphalt parking > lot. And capitalism clearly has a captive audience inside the gate. Etc. > Kezar Stadium, which is part of Golden Gate Park, used to be the home of the > SF 49ers until Football became a real business in the sixties. Fortunately > the stadium has been beautifully rebuilt, the grounds in full view whether > or not you go in and watch a high school game from the bleachers. > > > \Park\, n. [AS. pearroc, or perh. rather fr. F. parc; both being of the same > origin; cf. LL. parcus, parricus, Ir. & Gael. pairc, W. park, parwg. Cf. > Paddock an inclosure, Parrock.] 1. (Eng. Law) A piece of ground inclosed, > and stored with beasts of the chase, which a man may have by prescription, > or the king's grant. --Mozley & W. > 2. A tract of ground kept in its natural state, about or adjacent to a > residence, as for the preservation of game, for walking, riding, or the > like. --Chaucer. > > 3. A piece of ground, in or near a city or town, inclosed and kept for > ornament and recreation; as, Hyde Park in London; Central Park in New York. > > park ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pärk) > n. > > 1. An area of land set aside for public use, as: > a. A piece of land with few or no buildings within or adjoining a town, > maintained for recreational and ornamental purposes. > b. A landscaped city square. > c. A large tract of rural land kept in its natural state and usually > reserved for the enjoyment and recreation of visitors. > > 2. A broad, fairly level valley between mountain ranges: the high parks > of the Rocky Mountains. > 3. A tract of land attached to a country house, especially when including > extensive gardens, woods, pastures, or a game preserve. > 4. Sports. A stadium or an enclosed playing field: a baseball park. > 5. > a. An area where military vehicles or artillery are stored and serviced. > b. The materiel kept in such an area. > > 6. An area in or near a town designed and usually zoned for a certain > purpose: a commercial park. > > > Stephen V > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on 7/24/03 7:47 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > > > For something completely different, Rochester's "A Ramble in Saint James's > > Park." > > > > At 02:06 AM 1/1/1970 -0700, you wrote: > >>> *what are examples of poems written in parks, or of > >>> poets writing in and > >>> around parks?* > >>> > >>> > >>> not sure is it was written in a park, but ginsberg's > >>> "wales visitation" always comes to mind when i think > >>> of this==== > >> Dont know whether he was there, but you just might consider WCW's > Paterson. > >> -- > >> George Bowering > >> Ajar to suggestions. > >> Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:39:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Deaths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Deaths alan(1) killed by Go player(0), creator: 0 kayo(1) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), creator: 0 kayo(1) killed by Harry the affectionate(0), creator: 0 kayo(1) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), creator: 0 kayo(1) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), creator: 0 kayo(11) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), creator: 0 kayo(10) killed by A WoMan Man(0), creator: 0 kayo(9) killed by Honey(0), creator: 0 kayo(8) killed by Honey(0), creator: 0 carol(1) killed by Susan the naked flesh (neutral)(susan), creator: 0 alan(1) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), creator: 0 ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:47:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Iliad of Clara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Iliad of Clara Clara's tired. Clara goes home. Clara goes to Clara's hole. Clara goes to Clara's double hole. She can get back to the church this way but she doesn't want to go there. She doesn't want to see Alan or the ghost of Alan. Clara wants to be by herself. She's tired of everything. Alan doesn't think she's carrying anything. Clara, oozing blood, smeared with symbols of shit and cum, totters home. Where is Clara when I need her? I'm obsessed with Clara. I'm obsessed with Clara I'm obsessed with Clara. I'm hardly here. I'm hardly here at all. You've reached the jetty. waves roll in, your wounds sting in the salt air, cunt and cock freezing. little clara little ghost of alan you take the bag torn from human flesh, the living bag and you think i'll put the ghost of alan, but you don't have a ghost, no one can have one of another, no one facing alterity of the other, nothing to put in take out some mist blows east some mist drifts around some mist blows west some mist drifts around some mist drifts around you're still there at the bottom of the sea you give the corpse to Alan; he's weighted down with symbols, the ghost of electrodes and the corpse of triple cock triple_cock says: I will convert you to a pulp! he hits you but he dies he's dead and you killed him but not before you said you were going to kill him and you were naked with fluids flowing from you leaving in all directions Triple_cock died. at the bottom of the sea, the trident triple-cock with long arms, he is reaching for you, clara, he is carrying a chest Alan looks at the electrodes. alan looks at the electrodes. he sees nothing special. he's carrying nothing. some mist blows west and he's at the bottom of the sea. Clara takes the electrodes. Were these the corpse of Man? Was the corpse of WoMan the corpse of Man? of WoMan? Clara gives the electrodes to Alan. Alan is a gatherer of corpses. Do an inventory, Alan. Alan, you are a ghost who has nothing. The corpses disappear, there are no more corpses. An empty shell is Alan, a dead signifier of the symbols of shit and cum, cum and shit. WoMan says: Spread his legs! WoMan says: Spread his legs! WoMan says: What is that boygirl doing here! WoMan says: Fuck him! Man grazed you. Man missed Clara. You hit Man hard. It's returned (i.e. the Man hits you hard.) WoMan says: Fuck him. The man died. You killed him. You take the corpse. Give the corpse to Alan in the mist some mist drifts around some mist drifts around some mist drifts around i took the corpse of Honey but I couldn't eat it. So I gave it to Alan. I thought Alan might use it. Honey died. Clara took her corpse and gave it to me. I am a ghost; what am I to do with it? Honey tickled you in the stomach. Honey died. You killed Honey. You cannot take Honey. She is not here. You cannot look at Honey. There is no Honey here. Honey had hit you hard but you had returned it. the ghost of alan furiously drives you you are hunted by no one some mist around here some mist north there is some mist in the south in the west some mist some mist blows east some mist drifts around some mist blows north some mist drifts around some mist blows west and west you want to scream Alan i love you! can a ghost hear? tympanum... vibrations in the air... open or closed... can a ghost hear? Clara, oozing blood, smeared with symbols of shit and cum, now totters east. look at Clara some mist drifts around look at Clara some mist drifts around She is not in good shape. A quicktyper not in good shape. You try to take the quicktyper. You fail. Honey opens her labia and comes on you. Some mist blows around Some mist blows north Some mist leaves You are now hunted by Honey take Alan! You can not take that! I want to take Alan! You can not take that! More than anything... more than the Glass Slipper... more than the pool of blood... more than the Magic Wand... You can not take that! You can not take any of them! Clara says: you are talking to a wraithe Clara says: you are speaking from a wraithe {from the position of a wraithe} {from an unreasonable position) ghost of Alan says: Clara I have tried to kill you. ghost of Alan says: Over and over I have tried to kill you. Clara totters in, oozing blood, smeared with symbols of shit and cum. But why symbols? One remembers the Parmenides... ghost of Alan. "A small clearing. There are trees all around you." You wipe your holes with blades of grass. You eat the grass. You lie down in the weeds. The sun b akes you. You shove branches into you. You think of returning. You are learning. You think about the trees. They are sparse in the north. Alan enters the game. some mist blows north. (We'll follow the trail) Blood red clotted plain. There are clots to the north, too deep for your embedding. Blood flows freely across your clotted holes and eyes. functioning of the armored body ... __ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:22:33 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: ghazal file MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This ghazal I believe is quite good and has the ghazal feeling, too. I do think it's point could be better made if the last two couplets were cut. The last two couplets don't move the erotic charge forward. Pruning roses, anyone? -- Kirby Olson > > GHAZAL AT FIRST SIGHT > by Daniel Zimmerman > > Whenever the couple thought to commence > > they wondered whether they ought to commence. > > Consider them angels and, as such, > > on heaven's template wrought to commence. > > Wingless, they hesitate: > > whence, after all, were they brought to commence? > > > Dimming their gleam, they contemplate: > > under what master taught to commence? > > > > Breath catching breath, gaze catching gaze, > > frozen in silence they fought to commence. > > > > How could their longing have grown so adept, > > innocent of what they sought to commence? > > > > Shining in darkness, they ponder the trust > > Daniel mustered with naught to commence. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:40:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: ghazal file Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Kirby, The retardation of the erotic charge, in fact, lies at the heart of this = ghazal, in the double meaning of "commence" as both to begin and to end. = Caught between time (meeting) and eternity (consummation), the lovers = embody the Tierra del Fuegan word "mamahlapinatapei," which means = 'looking into each other's eyes, each wishing to do what both desire but = neither chooses to commence,' as Howard Rheingold defines it in They = Have a Word For It (I chose the word 'commence' from that definition). = The penultimate couplet contemplates the paradox of the imperfect = expertise of innocent desire (cf. Shakespeare in " The expense of spirit = in a waste of shame"), and the final couplet analogizes their = Hamlet-like courage in the spititual context of the lion's den (imagine = the dilemma from the lions' point of view!), while also mentioning = myself by name, in the ghazal tradition. The predicament of the lovers = mirrors the 'retardation of eternity' discussed by Henry Corbin as = affecting the relationship of the believer and his angel in various sufi = narratives which inspire many of the poems of Hafiz, Sana'i and Rumi, = among others.=20 I appreciate your interest in inviting poems in this form, and your = interest in my effort especially. Perhaps others would like to comment = on the perspective(s) underlying their ghazals, too? Best, Dan ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: Re: ghazal file > This ghazal I believe is quite good and has the ghazal feeling, too. = I do think it's point could be better made if the last two couplets were = cut. The last two couplets don't move the erotic charge forward. = Pruning roses, anyone? >=20 > -- Kirby Olson >=20 >=20 > > > > GHAZAL AT FIRST SIGHT > > by Daniel Zimmerman > > > > Whenever the couple thought to commence > > > > they wondered whether they ought to commence. > > > > Consider them angels and, as such, > > > > on heaven's template wrought to commence. > > > > Wingless, they hesitate: > > > > whence, after all, were they brought to commence? > > > > Dimming their gleam, they contemplate: > > > > under what master taught to commence? > > > > Breath catching breath, gaze catching gaze, > > > > frozen in silence they fought to commence. > > > > How could their longing have grown so adept, > > > > innocent of what they sought to commence? > > > > Shining in darkness, they ponder the trust > > > > Daniel mustered with naught to commence. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:44:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: worthless sardines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable French Craters in America Seems brutal enough hate our own language a slashed shoulder stashed soldier that soldered grammar - prepositional clause - adjacent to the bank the one on the left or the one that left right? Spell blonde synonymous with ambition syndrome the slice of a line lingers illingly, aw only under full moons a black and white television cast heapward today sitcom blocks ahead swim upscreen darkly dead dark clouds waft Lego Splitlevel Fat and bouncy read sentimental wiggle and scuttle so, that's good! A little german some trimmed garden and acumen with the BBQ ubercast all a-thunder runaway to strip the land it is your profit margin anyway, ya bastard Impossibly Short drops little rain softness 'around the eyes' salt some wind and away ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:40:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Leaving MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Leaving clara 830 0 alan 55 0 Alan arrives. Alan leaves north. Alan arrives. Alan leaves west. Alan causes your heart to stop momentarily as he enters. Alan pokes you in the ribs. Alan smiles happily. Alan left the game. Clara walks in like she owns the place. Clara says: help Leo Clara gets that far away-look, and heads west. Clara walks in like she owns the place. Clara gets that far away-look, and heads north. Clara walks in like she owns the place. Clara gets that far away-look, and heads west. Clara walks in like she owns the place. Clara gets that far away-look, and heads north. Clara walks in like she owns the place. Clara gets that far away-look, and heads west. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 03:22:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Write-Side Signal Handling #0001 - #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Write-Side Signal Handling #0001 - #0003 preindustrial|||||age|||||lessened|||||industrial ||||britain|||||overall|||||health|||||material|| ||| atom|||||free|||||neutron||||mev|||||ã|||||ã|||| |cal|||||nuclear|||||energy|||||also|||||released |||||fission||||| greater|||||frequency|||||set||||mode|||||bimodal |||||modes|||||two|||||most|||||frequent|||| |trimodal||||| confidence|||||those|||||government|||||manage||| ||these|||||threats|||||investigate||||| including|||||driver|||||larger|||||vehicles|||| |designed|||||carry||||more|||||passengers||||| began|||||prior|||||century|||||iron|||||early||| ||english|||||engineer|||||thomas|||||savery|||| |created||||| algae|||||severely|||||depletes|||||oxygen|||| |supply||||process|||||called|||||eutrophication| |||| restrictions|||||flight|||||testing|||||very|||| |limiting|||||program|||||true|||||example|||| |want||||| dichloride|||||organic|||||synthesis|||||na|||| |ethyl|||||phosphonyl|||||difluoride|||||organic| |||| worldwide|||||help||||reduce|||||solid|||||waste| ||||pollution|||||key|||||solving|||||severe||| |solid||||| occurs|||||most|||||frequently|||||two|||||more|| |||distinct|||||occur||||equal|||||frequencies||| ||none||||| plummeted||||plan|||||locked|||||down|||| |prohibiting|||||those|||||selling|||||shares||| |enron||||| escalate|||||discrimination|||||challenge|||| |clearly|||||capability|||||evolve|||||system||||| providing|||||state|||||art|||||system|||| |holding|||||great|||||promise|||||both|||| |environmental||||| number||||numbers|||||represent|||||anything|||| |chemical|||||bonds|||||dollar||||figures||||| identify||||diagnose|||||specific|||||disease|||| |injury|||||check|||||patient||||medical||||| process|||||work|||||smoothly|||||future|||||fact |||||made|||||successful|||||use|||||procedure||| ||advise||||| date|||||things|||||go|||||according|||||plan||| |third|||||general|||||welch|||||team|||| |inherent||||| ||||tidiosa|||||fungi|||||pwf|||||deuterophoma||| ||tracheiphila|||||syn|||||phoma|||||tracheiphila ||||| transfer|||||gift|||||technique|||||similar|||| |ivf|||||harvested|||||eggs|||||sperm|||||placed| ||| extended|||||parts|||||asia|||||pacific|||||rim|| |||today|||||mechanized|||||production|||||modern |||| warming|||||increase|||||earth||||temperature|||| |due|||||buildup|||||certain|||||atmospheric||||| projection|||||data|||||space- based|||||sensors|||||information|||||passed|||| |through|||||command||||| noted|||||satisfaction|||||very|||||good|||| |progress|||||achieved|||||organisation||||| high|||||enough|||||melt|||||cast|||||iron||| |cooling|||||system|||||conducts|||||heat|||| |away|||||engine|||| initiative|||||nci|||||initiatives|||| |proliferation|||||prevention|||||ipp|||||know||| ||secretary||||| receivers|||||total|||||internal|||||geometric||| ||volume|||||greater|||||where|||||all|||| |surfaces||||| office|||||emergency|||||preparedness|||||oep|||| |time|||||also|||||oep|||||acting|||||deputy|||| |director||||| caused|||||soil|||||pollution||||enhanced|||| |erosion|||||treating|||||soil|||||chemical|||| continue|||||reading|||||||||dsc- p|||||digital|||||camera|||||usa|||||warranty|||| |ccicameracity||||| problems|||||indicated|||||testing|||||data|||| |collection|||||generally|||||substantiated||||| dimethylamine|||||detergents|||||na|||||diethyl|| |||ethylphosphonate|||||gasoline|||||additive||||| sustaining|||||fission||||chain|||||reaction|||| |known|||||fissile|||||material|||||critical||||| chooses|||||achieve|||||goal|||||through|||| |national|||||policies|||||wassenaar|||||provides ||||| engine|||||engine|||||block|||||cylinder|||||head |||||cylinders|||||pistons||||valves|||| |crankshaft||||| streams|||||rivers||||these|||||combine|||| |phosphates|||||nitrates|||||sewage|||||speed|||| |growth||||| two|||||south|||||tower||||towers|||||briefly|||| |ranked|||||world||||tallest|||||buildings||||| primarily|||||statistical|||||works|||||former||| ||containing|||||two||||separate|||||censuses||||| achieve|||||fusion|||||hydrogen|||||atoms|||| |atomic||||scientists|||||regarded|||||bomb|||| |trigger||||| Write-Side Signal Handling #0002 deploy|||||protective|||||suits|||||specified|||| |shelf|||||lives|||||samples|||||periodically||||| agreements|||||work|||||remove|||||plutonium|||| |highly|||||enriched|||||uranium|||||russian||||| schedule|||||slippage|||||multiple|||||contractor |||||bid|||||protests|||||termination||||| presidential|||||candidate|||||george|||||bush||| ||made|||||getting|||||more|||||accurate||||| hospitals|||||further|||||contaminated|||| |providers|||||staff|||||limited|||||personal||||| needed|||||dispose|||||own|||||surplus|||| |plutonium|||||also|||||continued|||||extensive|| ||| towers||||housed|||||shops|||||exhibition|||| |pavilions|||||additional||||offices|||||complex| |||| try|||||second|||||guess|||||those|||| |differences|||||using|||||broad|||||range|||| |data|||||experience||||| overgarments|||||inspector|||||general|||| |recommended|||||commander|||||defense|||||depot| |||| level|||||oversight|||||future|||||protection|||| |assessment|||||test|||||system|||||capabilities| |||| pasteur|||||institute|||||mcguinn|||||amp|||| |mcguire|||||shapin|||||steven|||||scientific||||| earliest|||||date|||||implement||||effectively|| |||toward|||||those|||||ends|||||parties|||| |agree||||| providing|||||longer|||||duration|||||licenses||| ||question|||||type|||||initiative|||||likely||||| instances|||||committed|||||ensuring|||||sailors |||||effectively|||||operate|||||harm|||||return| |||| choose|||||abortion|||||side|||||pro- life|||||advocates|||||who|||||oppose|||| |abortion|||||except|||| |||||pollution|||||buildup|||||to|||||chemical||| ||compounds|||||salts||||pathogens|||||disease- reference|||||page|||||january|||||implemented||| ||extensive|||||collection|||||foreign|||||policy ||||| spoonlike|||||tool|||||called||||curette|||| |loosen|||||remove|||||tissue|||||procedure|||| |referred||||| examinations|||||treatment|||||surgery|||| |observe|||||evaluate||||record|||||patients||||| presents||||risk|||||woman||||health|||||induced| ||||abortion|||||focus|||||become|||||one|||| |most||||| mechanical|||||improvements|||||well||| |established|||||more|||||importantly|||| |predictable||||| number|||||students|||||receiving|||||grades|||| |equal|||||less|||||range|||||succeeding|||| |interval||||| countries|||||merited|||||particular|||| |attention|||||several|||||years|||||last|||| |year|||||russia||||| useless||||unwanted|||||hazardous|||||solid|||| |wastes|||||typically||||classified|||||follows|| ||| improvements|||||really|||||e|||||st|||||clinical |||||trials|||||usually|||||randomized||||| poorer|||||developing||||countries|||||mid|||| |united|||||states|||||one|||||physician|||| |every||||| department|||||national|||||laboratories|||| |concentrates|||||aggressively||||| regime|||||created|||||market|||||countries||| |north|||||korea|||||exploit|||||illicit|||| |avenues||||| referred|||||partial|||||birth|||||abortion|||| |consists|||||partially||||removing|||||fetus||||| concentrate|||||more|||||handful|||||states|||| |groups|||||concern|||||seeking|||||these||||| made|||||outbreak|||||world|||||war|||| |stimulated|||||renewed|||||research|||| |australian||||| currently|||||transitioning|||||older|||| |equipment|||||newer|||||lighter|||||more|||| |effective||||| pursuant|||||memorandum|||||implementation|||| |during|||||previous|||||calendar|||||year||||| chemical|||||attacks|||||usually|||||immediately| ||||apparent|||||biological|||||event||||| clearly|||||specify|||||exact|||||location|||| |within|||||complex|||||diagram|||||geographic||| || phenomenon||||valid|||||assumed|||||hypothesis||| ||leads|||||mathematical|||||model||||model||||| public|||||sector|||||capacity|||||further|||| |highlights|||||need|||||local|||||level|||| |response||||| june|||||hold|||||release|||||delivery|||| |expected|||||june|||||statement|||||donald|||| |mancuso||||| going|||||continue|||||one|||||test|||||different |||||objects|||||space|||||test|||||radar||||| radioactive|||||third|||||stream|||||water|||| |lake|||||river|||||cooling||||tower|||||used|||| |condense||||| Write-Side Signal Handling #0003 facility- specific|||||agreements|||||six|||||these|||| |states|||||noted|||||pelindaba|||||treaty||||| india|||||prithvi|||||ussr|||||russian|||||sa|||| |prithvi|||||ussr|||||russian|||||sa|||||dhanush| ||||vi||||| filled|||||uranium|||||de|||||entire|||||core||| |blanket|||||assembly|||||measures|||||high|||| |diameter||||| particle|||||accelerators|||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||world|||||trade| ||||center|||||multimedia|||||items||||| protective|||||equipment|||||such|||||respirators |||||protective|||||suits|||||specialized||||| refocus|||||list|||||dual- use|||||controlled|||||items|||||those|||| |controllable|||||critical||||| bridgeport|||||petition|||||committee|||||take||| ||all|||||action|||||possible|||||ensure|||| |locals||||| both|||||milosevic|||||djukanovic|||||try|||| |avoid|||||serious|||||confrontation|||||now|||| |final||||| applications|||||including|||||||||ter|||| |computers|||||larger||||storage|||||capacities|| ||| novichkov|||||russia|||||details|||||illegal|||| |deliveries|||||armenia|||||jane|||||defence||||| reverse|||||underlying|||||disease|||||sometimes| ||||treatment||||needed|||||because|||||disease|| ||| fever|||||another||||antibiotic|||||streptomycin| ||||used|||||combat|||||tuberculosis||||| supreme|||||court|||||decision|||||webster|||| |reproductive||||health|||||services|||||court||| || hour|||||needed|||||some|||||delicate|||||crane|| |||operations|||||shemya||||attractive|||||place| |||| sarov|||||strategic|||||plan|||||completed|||| |last|||||september|||||identifies|||||reduction| |||| consensus|||||nature|||||extent|||||domestic|||| |terrorism|||||threat|||||compounding||||| choose|||||abortion|||||side|||||pro- life|||||advocates|||||who|||||oppose|||| |abortion|||||except|||| societies|||||created|||||during|||||neolithic||| |revolution|||||modern|||||industrial||||| filled||||large|||||new|||||mills|||||factories|| |||soon|||||britain|||||supplying||||cloth||||| seven||||years|||||dos|||||take|||||internship||| ||followed|||||residency||||during||||| size|||||style|||||number|||||doors||||intended|| |||use|||||typical|||||automobile|||||also|||| |called||||| plutonium|||||during|||||height|||||cold|||||war| ||||relatively|||||expand|||||material|||||today| |||| because|||||ignores|||||nuances|||||issue|||| |response|||||participants|||||abortion|||| |debate||||| exposure|||||event|||||environmental|||| |diagnostic|||||specimens|||||best|||||handled||| || outline|||||doing|||||program|||||why|||||doing|| |||progressing|||||also|||||address|||| |independent||||| homes|||||million|||||patients|||||number|||| |nursing|||||homes|||||doubled||||because|||| |more||||| certain|||||details|||||open|||||hearing|||| |assess|||||hotline|||||allegations|||||selected| |||| sit|||||primary|||||location|||||threats|||||due| ||||easy|||||accessibility|||||terrorists|||| |where||||| terrorist|||||acts|||||some|||||time|||||ago|||| |dhhs|||||realized|||||nation|||||prepared|||| |deal|||||health||||| cells|||||temporarily||||starved|||||nutrients||| ||halt|||||cell|||||development|||| inhibiting|||||activity|||||iii|||||related|||| |technology|||||transfer|||||technology||||| present|||||treaty|||||approved||||such|||| |conference|||||majority|||||contracting|||| |parties||||| needed|||||assets|||||accomplish|||||mission|||| |respectfully|||||request|||||allocation||||| slept|||||lives|||||times|||||ideas|||||great|||| |physicists|||||twentieth|||||century|||||wiley|| ||| fissile|||||material||||fired|||||target|||||same |||||material|||||two|||||weld|||||together||||| histogram|||||newspapers|||||printed|||||media||| ||frequently|||||present||||statistical||||| regime|||||pressure|||||fewer|||||munitions|||| |export|||||controls|||||during|||||past|||| |several||||| andthe|||||united|||||kingdom|||||claimed|||| |sovereignty|||||areas|||||antarctica|||||basis|| || soldiers|||||following|||||prescribed|||| |procedures|||||performing|||||pmcs|||||chemical| |||| together|||||save|||||lives|||||protect|||| |property||||citizens|||||community|||||nation||| ||want||||| decision|||||made|||||proceed||||second|||||key|| |||point|||||acquisition|||||decision|||||process ||||| august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 03:25:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: COW Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit COW Gallery MEDIA-ACCESS LOOP MULTIPLEXING #0001 www.cowgallery.com breaths; breaths; countenance, countenance, countenance, the dimly burning the dimly burning breaths; developed by E.W. developed by E.W. currents will currents will currents will research for several research for several developed by E.W. let the word stand let the word stand be sure to take it be sure to take it be sure to take it of the wooded craggy of the wooded craggy let the word stand and a and a battle The same battle The same battle The same of Utah staff won a of Utah staff won a and a Snodgrass-- Snodgrass-- occurs near to the occurs near to the occurs near to the unexpected neutrons unexpected neutrons Snodgrass-- finite reality, finite reality, with I. B.," I. B. with I. B.," I. B. with I. B.," I. B. certain about it, certain about it, finite reality, I'm AFRAID of her I'm AFRAID of her treatment exposure treatment exposure treatment exposure I'm AFRAID of her Finucane but I took Finucane but I took for a few moments. for a few moments. for a few moments. laughing. I assure laughing. I assure Finucane but I took But trees are apt But trees are apt his complexion his complexion his complexion nearly always nearly always But trees are apt calculation of calculation of saw this saw this calculation of and inform and inform cannibal fashion. cannibal fashion. cannibal fashion. torment me and say I torment me and say I and inform wizard dropped the wizard dropped the using highly using highly using highly "You fool! You fool! wizard dropped the and afterwards we and afterwards we accessories or august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 09:35:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: banal braille In-Reply-To: <1059174410.3f21b80a8ef9a@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable banal braille to another bunker with car car value. bird stop. suspended in lambent=20= thought peeled back, belt and hook. braille pitch, cry-n-cry, now only=20= freud percent off. sacred, the wheel driver drove jennie duffs from=20 the TelePrompTer to vacuum-seal, for weatherwizer and nunchucks, only=20 to breathe wings in precipice slit. it=92s a homage then, a pickled = tree=20 on the shelf, so let=92s comatose together, token due,=20 cage-ten-fill-the-bed, pass the can-o-spam in beer nuts and tall dogs=20 biddens paint by numbers in seven-and-seven, just south of tarans. oh,=20= half a dozen or dizzy lizzy, pay-me pay-me in the trickle down deficit.=20= amidst all these lofty infinite etceteras, above monologue and leather=20= thong and habits foundation dinner plans, =93self assembly not = included,=94=20 through a cicada matey for whom the organ rolls, give us lust bated=20 skin, thin in a smut bottles 20 degrees below the death level to pay=20 for our banal dead, give us temptation to rest our head in, give us a=20 dead end with a formica finish.= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: parks again Comments: To: Michael Rothenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Michael rothenburg, You're an old hand at this linkage of poetry/parks, then. I'm a relative newcomer. Very interested in this new field of Environmental Aesthetics, but also in all the swirl of thought around public policy and parks/recreation. Your note on your own activism provides a clear lineage that I think a lot of younger people would like to know about. I have a friend who was like a Greenpeace 007 -- he'd climb up on battleships in Portland (they would come up the Columbia) and he'd climb up on them with webbed feet and drape a big banner across them in the middle of the night saying Nuke Free, or something, but I feel that this sort of thing irritates (as fun as it must have been) but doesn't really accomplish anything concrete. Walking a bill through legislation, and getting to know the big wheels and how they turn is much more concretely useful in the long term. Can you say what role poetry has had in this for you? Is it a kind of galvanizing effect? You have to be careful not to veer into agit-prop, I imagine? -- Kirby Olson Michael Rothenberg wrote: > Kirby, > > I don't know Caro's biography of Robert Moses, but I will check it out for > sure. > > I couldn't post to the whole group because I had exceeded my limit of > postings for the day but did want to communicate to you about Burton. I have > listed a few resources below that tell more than I could ever recount about > Philip Burton. My experience was working with him on the acquisition of > Sweeney Ridge Park, a part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. He > pushed this forward when James Watt was reigning over the Interior > Department. Burton was a master at getting what he wanted. Check out the > resources below. > > Yes, I have been doing this kind of activist environmental work for about > 25 years. I still have a tropical plant nursery in the National Park and the > nursery, Shelldance, has become a landmark there, a trailhead for people > hiking up Sweeney Ridge, a place where environmentalists tend to gather, and > plant lovers can see things they may not have ever seen before. > > My own involvement in politics led me to a brief stint on the Pacifica > Planning Commission, a couple of years board of director membership of the > Pacifica Land Trust, and ten years of presidency of an educational advocacy > group called Pacifican's for Mori Point (heading out a prolonged battle > with help of botanists, ornithogists, historians, tree huggers, > herpetologists and more, to stop developers from developing a 200 million > dollar conference center, 35 deluxe homes, 7 restaurants on a pristine > coastal bluff inhabited by endangered San Francisco Garter Snakes. We > finally succeeded in saving Mori Point, and getting it into he Golden Gate > National Recreation Area. This is the kind of thing Burton loved/ Although > he passed away before Mori Point was saved, his spirit was in the battle. > Burton liked to see the local environmentalist put together a band of > compadres, educate themselves, and then make an appeal to him, by this time > the developers were exhausted and they were looking for solutions. He would > do what he could, especially if it fit into his grand scheme of the GGNRA,to > take it to congress, get the money to purchase the land, get it included as > a rider on any kind of bill going through congress that he could attach it > to. > > Environmental work continues to be a key part of my life. It was Burton and > some of his working companions who mentored me. I was already stuck on > ecology, grown up in Miami, weekending in the Everglades every chance I > could get from the time I was 12 until I went off to college. I had read > Meat Science Essays, the "beat sensitivities" about ecology were all part of > my education. But the idea of "activism", that you could make something > happen, form a grassroots base, take over the city government, and carry > legislation all the way to the White House, well that idea was unbelievable. > I never imagined anything like that was possible. Burton pointed the way. > > A great moment for me was to be standing on Mori Point, during the > dedication to the park, and being asked to read a poem I wrote, TAKE, about > saving the headland and endangered species, and the conflict I felt about > who this all belonged to REALLY. That was all of me as one thing, an organic > moment, right there on the ocean being poet/activist/naturalist, all those > nonsense categories, more like being HUMAN. > > I am still working on devoloping Shelldance as an interpretive center for > ecology on the Northern California Coast, with help from the GGNRA. We offer > free tours to kids, seniors, etc., and have cultural events at the nursery. > I keep trying to explain to my neighbors that art is nature is culture is > dance is music is religion, etc., This past year I gave the GGNRA an oral > history of the GGNRA in San Mateo County (home of Shelldance, Mori Point, > Sweeney Ridge, San Pedro Mountain, Milagra Ridge) but have not yet received > the print-out of the presentation. If you want to know more I can let you > know when it materializes in print. But I am sure I have gone on enough > already ABOUT ME and wore you out with my stuff. Your interest is in Burton > so you might want to check out these resources I have listed. If I can help > you with additional resources let me know. > > Biography of Philip Burton > > For the politicians in the crowd, there's "A Rage for Justice: The Passion > and Politics of Philip Burton" (University of California, 1995) by John > Jacobs. This biography of Congressman Philip Burton by political journalist > Jacobs, a Davis resident, sheds light on how a liberal Congressman pushed > through the bills dearest to his heart. > > The New Urban Park > http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/rotnew.html > > statue of Philip Burton > http://www.moonrise.ws/Pictures/City/PhilipBurtonClose/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirby Olson" > To: "Michael Rothenberg" > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:12 PM > Subject: Re: parks again > > > Michael, Are you the poet who was mentioned a month or so back as working > hard > > for the parks in SF area? > > > > I am trying to put together a list. I find this area extremely attractive > for > > scholarship. > > > > I am primarily a critic. I do write poems, but prefer to work on > criticism. > > It's just a lot more interesting for me to write it, for reasons that > probably > > have to do with the ability to write it better than I write poems. > > > > At any rate, I hadn't heard of Philip Burton. In NYC, Robert Moses was an > > enormous cad -- he began with high principles but slowly became a > power-head and > > wanted to pave his way through Greenwich Village and build bridges that > would > > block views. Only Roosevelt was able to stop him until the 1960s. He had > > drafted bills that allowed him to take over whole commissions > single-handedly, > > and he smashed neighborhoods -- especially if they were inhabited by > > minorities. He killed a Norwegian neighborhood purely for the fun of it, > > ramming a highway throught heir Brooklyn neighborhood. > > > > Have you read Caro's biography of Robert Moses? It will fill you with > facts, > > but it has an intensity like a great Shakespearean tragedy. It amazes me. > I'm > > only on p. 700 of 1100 pages, though. If this is your area, you just have > to > > read this if you haven't already. It gives you a blow by blow account of > how > > city government works in regard to parks, etc., over the entirety of the > 20th > > century. > > > > By the way, you posted only to me, so I posted only to you. Maybe you > could > > give a longer description of what Burton did for the delectation of the > wider > > readership? > > > > Yours, > > > > Kirby Olson > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:17:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ksh: goddamn: not foundo Clara.missions to hole or hold on me((((!))))))(clara), > ^Cor: k10% you can imagine it going on and on and on, what a hell of a life,I alan(1) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), creator> know what it's like, it's over and over again, i can't think of>> sent-ma alan(1) kille what: No hey's found.))))(clara), creator: k13% ^C: diato k13% anything else, i can't even think of this, the hell with it all,oogr alan(1) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), creator: 0...pre > what the fuck would you expect day after day after day and textae todayrigan N alan(1) killed by Clara . ((((((!))))))(clara), c > after text after text, there's nothing more to ithe same as drum Iliad of ClaraR NDU (6363) alan(1 ksh: anything: not found(!))))))(clara), creator k14% the world's getting to me, is this enough already, ok it isad of Clarantia un 7 goddamn slave to this writing which all the time goes on 8 and on and on there's no end to it, what's the point, it binds me 9 or something worse to the 26, slams my face into them, it's just a hole or hold on me 10 you can imagine it going on and on and on, what a hell of a life, 11 there's got to be something more to it, i've got no idea 12 what it might be, i'm dying because of this bloody obsession, you know what it's like, it's over and over again, i can't think of 13 anything else, i can't even think of this, the hell with it all, what the fuck would you expect day after day after day and text after text after text, there's nothing more to it 14 the world's getting to me, is this enough already, ok it is __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:43:38 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Ashley D. Edwards" Subject: Re: video poetry jane, i am a performance poet/video artist living in portland, oregon...your e-mail struck me because i am currently working on a poem/video installation for an organization in town called pacific switchboard. the project is called "ghosting" and it is based on a chapter from giambattista porta's book "natural magick"...a bit of renaissance esoterica that was widely read by obscure "new science" philosophers and alchemists. porta devoted this particular chapter to constructing different methods of concealing writing, making writing invisible...by writing letters on pieces of thread, lines of skin, eggshells...or by sending them by pigeon, hiding them underneath rocks, etc. i am planning on filming myself conduct porta's invisible writing experiments...i will uncover invisible poems using porta's methods, and the the film medium itself will be shielded by a palimpsest of lines of the actual text. other layers of the project involve a cultural history of ghosts, especially those circulating in hamlet. on the whole, it will be a study of invisibility and history... ade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:28:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: what am i supposed to do with this MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII what am i supposed to do with this did i make this m3589v7o6zo9442t3y5126o485l [k.fp +?!=!gHkx7kXVydnpNphW57dgA7kHkx6&g5lk87=v5y981] zg6w1191b3156j4o5296poh2o3r [1.g!v +?3589v7o6z=o9442t3y5] 126o485l922u5464ph2wkzg5lk87 i did not make this but i changed it i don't know what to do with it v5y9813817h83ldo667a1kv9ob2 fkx3eo79oo146!4bzg6w1191b315 6j4o5296poh2o3r3921n5ro9k4! 2m3589v7o6zo9442t3y5126o485 l922u5464ph2wkzg5lk87v5y9813 817h83ldo667a1kv9ob2phkx3eo79 oo146!4bzg6w1191b3156j4o529 6poh2o3r3921n5ro9k4!2m3589v 7o6zo9442t3y5126o485l922u54 !gHkx7kXVydnpNphW57dgA7kHkx6 a1kv9ob2phkx3eo79oo146!4bzg6u i can't think of anything to do with it it can't be changed back __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:30:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Breaking, Close Enough MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Breaking, Close Enough Offshooting nightspins: Even through nondescription I'll never break the half-surface well enough to satisfy cheaply manifest gravity nightly given up at the moment of eyeclose - Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:58:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: ghazal file In-Reply-To: <004201c353d7$bad6a8d0$6d94c044@MULDER> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, I am (sort of) back from my long weekend away. And was thinking about ghazals and our thread as I drove the lovely stretch of Thruway from Albany to Buffalo and into Canada. (Bonus of my trip to the cousin's wedding was the sidetrip to an Indian grocery in Oakville supplies) I gave a copy of Ali's "call me ishmael tonight" to a cousin who grew up in India very much immersed in literary culture there. We talked after she read it. She was shocked: after hearing ghazals her whole life she had never realized their were a set of formal rules! It was always (she explained) a performance between the poet and the audience--the poet always giving the first line several times until the audience clamored for the conclusion, or shouted out familiar refrains. I guess poet and audience together enter the linguistic space of "visions"--of speaking in tongues really. Ideally one wouldn't apply standard thoughts of revision to a ghazal, as the recent discussion of Mr Zimmerman's poem: "do the last two couplets disrupt the energy" etc because in a ghazal the couplets are really separate from each other--only formally linked, perhaps only chronological link is that they are spoken at the same time by the same person. they are not really couplets constructing a "poem" in a very Western sense. Sit down and read all fifty pages at once of the Forche/Akash translation of Darwish's "The Mural" (collected in the new UC Press book) and see if you can get a sense of what I mean. (I have no knowledge of whether Darwish writes the poem formally as a ghazal in Arabic--my sense is that he doesn't; it's certainly not translated to be read formally). I feel like I have been doing a very weak and inadequate job of expressing the complex ideas behind the form. I feel unsure about speculating about Agha Shahid Ali's intentions regarding his (strenuous) efforts to introduce the ghazal to Western writers, but my sense is that he did indeed understand that he was really only introducing formal qualities of the form--sort of cosmetic, but I bet his hope was that the actual writing might inspire some of the thinking--deep thinking--that creates/is created by the form itself and the way it fits into Arabic/Persian/Turkish/Urdu literary tradition. I do think this is probably one case in which the famous "form is never more than an extension of content" hits its limit: it's just not true about the ghazal. it's not true of a lot of literature but that's a whole separate thing I think. form extends content. form allows content. form contradicts content, contravents content, contrajects, contrafolds, contraverse, contra-incorrigible, incorroboratable, incontrovertible, controvertible, convolute, combobulate, come back you jerk. form what? um sorry like i said: I'm really the last person who can explain any of this. I hope a couple of things made at least a little bit of sense. Well that's partly the point. ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:50:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: ghazal file MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Kazim. What a fascinating story about the way Indian audiences respond to ghazals (& perhaps to other formal poems as well?)! It sounds like fans at a Dead concert (though perhaps I misread the spirit). Your point about revision made sense to me, though Kirby may have suggested it because my poem didn't sufficiently manage to keep each sher distinct enough, and so imparted a narrative stroll where stepping stones alone ought to have broken the surface of the stream. The idea of resistance to narrative -- a sort of pure parataxis? -- appeals very much to me, though I wonder whether audiences accustomed to ghazals resist, if they do, applying their own individual narrative glue to the couplets. Can you think of a Western analogy to that kind of listening? Does the call-and-response you mention insulate the audience from the temptations of narrativity? Does the issue even come up? I had an interesting time writing in this form, and would like to understand it better by further exploring its dynamics. Sadly, I don't read any of the original languages, though I have seen some transliterations, which help me with the musicality. I wonder how rigidly one should repeat metrical forms and/or line lengths (by syllable count or by 'quantity'), and to what degree, for example, a pronoun in one couplet can refer to a noun in another without establishing a narrative. I varied line lengths in my poem, switched meters to some extent, and linked couplets grammatically while trying to keep each separate thematically or poetically. Does that seem legitimate? On the one hand, I like some of the relative looseness of a site like http://www.ghazalpage.net/ but, on the other, I also feel somewhat chary of presuming to write in a form deeply rooted in a culture (or cultures) not my own (though that has never stopped me from writing haiku). I hope you'll have an opportunity to share your thoughts. Dan Zimmerman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kazim Ali" To: Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:58 PM Subject: Re: ghazal file > Hi all, > > I am (sort of) back from my long weekend away. And was > thinking about ghazals and our thread as I drove the > lovely stretch of Thruway from Albany to Buffalo and > into Canada. (Bonus of my trip to the cousin's wedding > was the sidetrip to an Indian grocery in Oakville > supplies) > > I gave a copy of Ali's "call me ishmael tonight" to a > cousin who grew up in India very much immersed in > literary culture there. We talked after she read it. > She was shocked: after hearing ghazals her whole life > she had never realized their were a set of formal > rules! > > It was always (she explained) a performance between > the poet and the audience--the poet always giving the > first line several times until the audience clamored > for the conclusion, or shouted out familiar refrains. > I guess poet and audience together enter the > linguistic space of "visions"--of speaking in tongues > really. > > Ideally one wouldn't apply standard thoughts of > revision to a ghazal, as the recent discussion of Mr > Zimmerman's poem: "do the last two couplets disrupt > the energy" etc because in a ghazal the couplets are > really separate from each other--only formally linked, > perhaps only chronological link is that they are > spoken at the same time by the same person. they are > not really couplets constructing a "poem" in a very > Western sense. Sit down and read all fifty pages at > once of the Forche/Akash translation of Darwish's "The > Mural" (collected in the new UC Press book) and see if > you can get a sense of what I mean. > > (I have no knowledge of whether Darwish writes the > poem formally as a ghazal in Arabic--my sense is that > he doesn't; it's certainly not translated to be read > formally). > > I feel like I have been doing a very weak and > inadequate job of expressing the complex ideas behind > the form. I feel unsure about speculating about Agha > Shahid Ali's intentions regarding his (strenuous) > efforts to introduce the ghazal to Western writers, > but my sense is that he did indeed understand that he > was really only introducing formal qualities of the > form--sort of cosmetic, but I bet his hope was that > the actual writing might inspire some of the > thinking--deep thinking--that creates/is created by > the form itself and the way it fits into > Arabic/Persian/Turkish/Urdu literary tradition. > > I do think this is probably one case in which the > famous "form is never more than an extension of > content" hits its limit: it's just not true about the > ghazal. it's not true of a lot of literature but > that's a whole separate thing I think. > > form extends content. form allows content. form > contradicts content, contravents content, contrajects, > contrafolds, contraverse, contra-incorrigible, > incorroboratable, incontrovertible, controvertible, > convolute, combobulate, come back you jerk. form what? > > um sorry > > like i said: I'm really the last person who can > explain any of this. I hope a couple of things made at > least a little bit of sense. Well that's partly the point. > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:16 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: ghazal file MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Kazim Ali But surely the content should dictate the form. What appears in a sonnet should have a different feeling from what appears in a ghazal Rhythms, rhymes, formal structures are the demands of feelings not of structures. Harriet ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:11:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Wool and same. In-Reply-To: <1059174410.3f21b80a8ef9a@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wool and same. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ caught in the shawl as a half expected, looking to do another=20 everything moment wildly wondering more and more at every=20 thought through the woods, with both arms turned=20 into the out side as if the moment came flying, and civilly=20 went to meet the shawl. caught in the very queerest ever expected growing=20= another everything the further away the more I walked=20= among the wildly wondering the more and more a-dressing,'=20 isn=92t a notion If you=92ll only tell me to begin, I'll do = it=20 as I can.' caught as sheep took the money for the very ends =20= off the others groaned the last two down for the count,=20 down on the Two pence for naught Fivepence farthing =20 no pleasing it!' caught in a surprised tone It can't go straight put the=20= all on one side two are cheaper than as gently as=20= a lost yesterday 'for the oars, and a boat I'll=20= take you with pleasure Twopence a week and jam like snow caught to-day at any rate astonished and half=20 frightened must come isn't any other as=20= you know to say today and no other knitting all=20 the while just as if nothing had happened That's the=20 effect of living in the water of one's memory.= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:58:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit < I really think that Kazim has hit on something important here. It helps to explain some of my uneasiness at Korean and Japanese forms of poetry transplanted into English as well--most notably haiku, and the rafts of it being written by people who know nothing of Japanese and Japanese context. I've come to the conclusion that some forms of poetry simply don't "fit" English, and the cookie cutter imposition of them onto English results in--well, not real ghazals and not haiku to be sure--but those cosmetic efforts that Kazim speaks of here. I've seen some successful English language Pantoums--or at least interesting English poems that result from the imposition of that form... It's easier, I believe, to trade forms among the Romance languages and have an effective English language poem as the result. !--StartFragment--> I feel like I have been doing a very weak andinadequate job of expressing the complex ideas behindthe form. I feel unsure about speculating about AghaShahid Ali's intentions regarding his (strenuous)efforts to introduce the ghazal to Western writers,but my sense is that he did indeed understand that he was really only introducing formal qualities of theform--sort of cosmetic, but I bet his hope was thatthe actual writing might inspire some of thethinking--deep thinking--that creates/is created bythe form itself and the way it fits into Arabic/Persian/Turkish/Urdu literary tradition. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:10:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Writers of Conscience Don't Write About Themselves #0001 - #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Writers of Conscience Don't Write About Themselves #0001 - #0003 [New[Hebr][Aust[driv[by] [h]thi[so][i[You[you] [all[Its][cons][deep] [abso][medi[ratt[pans] [the[mixi[weak][Here] [gone[you[has][enou[soli] [buil[marr][deat[the] [been][the[give[dire] [alli[Duri[but[ramp] [conf][Her][move[legs][her] [they[subs][for][here] [have[port[the[two][one] [the[late[unti[of][t] [warm][peop[unha[ever] [Low[unne[conf][supe[are] [valu[It][i[not[manu] [the[And[he][b[away[til] [afte[is][t[ente[flig] [shut[lapp[fatt[moan] [plea[I]t[to][k][daug] [the[drip[rema[sent] [forw[John][look][enou] [afra[too]I]r][gent[Pel] [him][nigh][reme[Anis] [pris][they[I]ca][minu] [flow[a]T[part[thre] [unco][the[like[woun] [were[spok][the[It][prom] [appe[dire[to][r][Mont] [The]sa][Flas]My[I] [sm][hair][I]c][how[fant] [many[And][undo][chee[see] [red[gree[Don][yet] [afte[Jane[when][the] [spir][when][The[has] [whis][Loo][Jack][hims] [desc][them][his][been] [caus][high][you[frie[and] [now[Andr][retu[room] [litt]Sto][Sam[Wink] [most[surg[case[sail] [suff][you[like[Ill] [myse[comi[mast[corn] [resu[natu[shal[able] [bear][case[us][p[rest] [not[for][The[Shak][dese] [wild][the[whic][we][h] [hear][down][from]Ver] [Wink][reli[clos][into] [the[scra[nerv[look][] [half][wery[a]ho][Twen] [late[up][i[apar][stic][3] [mi[bett[Blox[them][heal] [invi[purs][they[much] [prin][reco][Driv[Geor] [they[Arab[and][oste] [disp[crim][hand][yet] [than][if][t[wrun][allu] [mela[and][rema[see[woul] [as]t[WELT[RIZZ[Eig] [wife[moth][and][repl] [temp[were[few[shou] [fath][deep[The[hudd][the] [and[butt[stri[a]wh] [Lytc][hims][brea[fist] [with][his][crow[him][Doyl] [He]c][move[abou[her] [the[cove[body[get[daug] [marr][man[plan][ther] [exis][cont[had][into] [corn][back][Test[dema] [rati[Sena[And][on][s] [benc][had][Thi[he][s][of] [m][niec][emin][thre[one] [bank][prou[repu[serv[in] [t[pipe[I]ha][to][k][safe] [But[mean][to][g[dres] [half][thig[ends][reac] [atte[sate[1998[show] [loss][coul[huge[jean] [brot[the[to][t[inte] [airc][tank][for][and][Gosd] [earl[that[nece[cupp] [Mike] [hard][and][She[opin][must] [impo][Dods][anci[trie] [the[trea[I]c][pass][pres] [agai[The[cycl[if][h] [comp[shar][from][is][w] [serv[Caus][swal[a]fo] [afte[said][thei[had][I] [ca[book][his][unti[reac] [wher][flea[But[thro] [that[comp[tran][hosp] [prov[wict[oppr][suit] [all[care[frie[retr][and] [Thin][gett[Mag[news] Writers of Conscience Don't Write About Themselves #0002 [Ryan][her][dire[his][] [ackn][comp[the[they] [deaf][drau[The[into] [atmo][ting[arom][tena] [thou[nece[the[scre] [scra[thud][them][unio] [stro][They[me][t[brow[is] [a[poun][blon][IT][w[it] [nigh][ever][trai[on][t] [Turk][disa[coll[the] [gamb[scan][was][She[to] [dark][felt[ther][some] [obe[you[abou[twen][he] [w[whom][And][drop[Jack] [thei[Russ][syst[batt] [char][rela[mout[fain][of] [a[loos][and][dash][well] [coup[to][h][toge[me][w] [was][He][sudd][Perk][poun] [of]m][find][prob[and] [Iraq[said][Barb[pain][at] [a[The[for][cric][us] [been][with][She[tast] [juic][the[Roun][He][f] [groa[a]ca][spat[I]tu][a] [that[was][and][it][not] [my]m][some[spar][into] [Thes][call[and][won] [hold][long[lips][indi] [refr][memo][answ[much] [and][fuse[love[well[of] [h][erec][care[Meli[poss] [matt[gone[extr][furt] [two[whic][the[your] [fell[gran][They[head] [off][year][the[wind][pull] [hill[twen][pass][the[I] [am][woul[As][t[serm][head] [bell[time[cart[faci] [thri[nece[Sara[and] [tend][deep[incl[on][o] [list[shar][on][h][frie] [two[nine[and][she[and] [him[a]ho][hear][word] [the[of][t[does][inte] [cont[on][t[of][f][perq] [Spir][ever][your][Why] [angr][beca[to][w[clot] [don[spac][afra[Too] [comm][Stra[Forc][days] [mess][her][does][let[Ther] [test[and][cann][bein] [many[sile[firs][natu] [woma]Wel[Bard][thro] [cent[into][also][Shoc] [West[mixe[memo][coul] [begi[Id][abou[said] [must[He][a[the[move[are] [issu[host[Ryan][Wha] [said][stor][supp[Crut[in] [h][prod][neig[When][door] [spea[sigh][laug]re] [Pick][out[prin][whic] [unfo][spir][brot[wate] [and][That[wear][brim] [bent[thei[desc][Hora] [side[whil[cont[Expe] [Expe[last[the[pecu[His] [they[man][more[othe[is] [c][Life[airp[vind][not] [one[stor][whic][year] [long[nigh][coug[stif] [towa[elem][stat[puri] [into][weap[cand][to][o] [know[huma[This][whic] [Hest[to][b[a]fa][a]ma] [with][eat[path][some] [rush][some[esse[flow] [comm][defe[the[not[but] [her][not[of][w[Dadd][of][t] [viz[Brah][Sakt[John] [will[neck][Imme[sett] [ship[my][the[impl[this] [and][what[fail[I]wo] [ever][poss][and][fear] [daug[to][w[deat[the[had] [The[extr][adva[F15] [Repl[He][w[read][was] [Vasi[almo][help[that] [have[You[and][long[when] [Ther][gudg[talk][Ever] [rea[I]un][is][w[me[Afte] [vote[Depa[Ener][majo] [coun][go][t[brea[But] [this][asse[to][c][this] [Then][took][back][his] [blue[cour][cere[had][him] [subj[happ[have[so][c] [know[are[Mydd][daug] [Reme[love[maid][pass] Writers of Conscience Don't Write About Themselves #0003 [paus][only[a]lo][with] [burs][Slow[drew[alon] [the[tele[spoi[retr] [step[face[thou[of][t] [powe[bar[anni[wait] [outs][over][just[heav] [prin][that[of][h][of][t] [suc][pene[wall[him] [brea[then][morn][only] [teac][plac][each][Howe] [the[was][four][this][rema] [expr][trou[abou[will] [food][must[gall[all] [With][shou[acti[brow] [lay[heap[ther][and][peop] [the[beeTw][same] [from][she[My][c][tear] [ever][her[hand][Brot] [the[nose[uner][hand] [umbr][floo][it][a[his] [blac][was][the[him[in][t] [fath][as][w[that[scar] [for][grou[ente[prai[to] [p[sobr][thou[to][t[to][t] [same[cour][yet[exig] [that[unne[of][e[have] [and][toba[For][Gyps] [took][and][the[cont[soup] [smal[monk][Weep[spec] [watc]No][Sir[land] [runn][two][eigh][Ever] [unob[the[chos][writ] [agai[betv[Not[run] [Anis][Varv[and][the[that] [impo][a]gu][numb[Our] [here[addr][and][Sam] [Bevi[stra[will[lady] [with][arm[from][want] [news][nine[used][land] [wit[beca[trou[hers][it] [Make[will[he][h][livi] [All[favo][said][to][b] [dres][as][her][toss][impe] [free[the[mea[and][guar] [love[bega[litt[happ] [afte[nive[and][will] [mili[beca[Spea[troo] [Mace[June[Equa[nego] [STAr][high][atte[know[to] [d][unti[evid][focu[she] [few[chat[bask][arm] [Sawy[hail[fact[side[a] [de[grav[but[2012[Gwen] [reli[answ[conf][The[at] [t[on[both][tuft[keep] [was][alre[esco][left] [chil[furt[fest[disp] [allo][one[coun][bigo] [supe[rend][judg[my][p] [woul[rais][woul[morn] [Port[Linc][Fiel[near][or] [a[if][s][afte[civi[live] [men[but[that[to][b] [audi[plea[Lato][when] [his][dire[comp[into] [Then][reve[firm]An] [pape[para[of][t[said][a] [ro][I]s][were[gian][in][t] [of]e[in][t[of][i[bead] [the[like[was][two][mast] [pluc][ever][hous][brig] [thou]Now[with][and] [Dong[Taep[boos][an][a] [wa[that[no][m][modi[impr] [Widn][unde[Delt[The] [not[much][his][Trea[of][C] [conf][side[I]wi][forc] [imme[bloo]The[Sam] [tone[of][T[of][a[else] [serv[stat[vigi[bein] [hack][netw[seen][defe] [seas][Jags][comm][vete] [The[had][the[or][t[read] [Thee[and][And][the[cast] [Earl[lot[must[unle[me] [f][This][you[left[Miss] [nigh][refe[Upas][proc] [near][Why[turn][eyes][C] [13[real[was][this][unbu] []Wh][thin][ther][and] [diff][abou[to][a[has][and] [our][othe[seve[went] [bad[if][had][Im][tink] [on]t[Anot[path][carr] [beli[old][old][you[Sudd] [a]kn][wind][unus][test[is] [m][expe[term][anch][clos] [a]pa][plat[to][d][when] [bega[It][s][Pork][proj] august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:17:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: The Victim's Journal #0001- #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Victim's Journal #0001- #0003 congratulation approaching slowly come will thou canst judge chance endurance other négligé salary congratulation approaching slowly congratulation approaching slowly come will thou canst judge chance endurance other négligé salary congratulation approaching slowly see thee well much fixing gotta tomato thought tomato future yawp see thee well much see thee well much fixing gotta tomato thought tomato future yawp see thee well much see thee well much fixing gotta tomato thought tomato future yawp see thee well much religious eliminate hazard skill Sister cousin will induction conservative tell Elzevir back clue found induction conservative apprehend religious eliminate hazard skill religious eliminate hazard skill Sister cousin will induction conservative tell Elzevir back clue found induction conservative apprehend religious eliminate hazard skill congratulation approaching slowly come will thou canst judge chance endurance other négligé salary congratulation approaching slowly skillful vs rod flint olives skillful vs rod Diamond all glorious skillful vs rod flint olives skillful vs rod Diamond all glorious palestine termite juridical termite long coming kind palestine termite juridical termite long coming kind palestine termite juridical termite long coming kind pending surprised remembering dark cold tv tanned hands face ruddy brown marmelade leg fireman gather marmelade leg fireman preoccupied nested pending surprised remembering dark cold pending surprised remembering dark cold tv tanned hands face ruddy brown marmelade leg fireman gather marmelade leg fireman preoccupied nested pending surprised remembering dark cold skillful vs rod flint olives skillful vs rod Diamond all glorious The Victim's Journal #0002 obey mundane Iden ledge outside heavy spray lifted whiskers general Syria set Friday June frighten flag whiskers general Syria set Friday June race obey mundane Iden obey mundane Iden ledge outside heavy spray lifted whiskers general Syria set Friday June frighten flag whiskers general Syria set Friday June race obey mundane Iden bite Duchy emblem mourn no titan was physics verb titan flow difference louder bite Duchy bite Duchy emblem mourn no titan was physics verb titan flow difference louder bite Duchy bite Duchy emblem mourn no titan was physics verb titan flow difference louder bite Duchy memory lentil outsider beggar all save trade congratulation approaching slowly suspicious scour father congratulation approaching slowly decoction memory lentil outsider memory lentil outsider beggar all save trade congratulation approaching slowly suspicious scour father congratulation approaching slowly decoction memory lentil outsider obey mundane Iden ledge outside heavy spray lifted whiskers general Syria set Friday June frighten flag whiskers general Syria set Friday June race obey mundane Iden stem kill residence formality Leave less desolation nay even sperm Leave less desolation nay even islam entire penicillin stem kill residence stem kill residence formality Leave less desolation nay even sperm Leave less desolation nay even islam entire penicillin stem kill residence mathematics levels harvest rig steak dam called Elzevir guessing come mathematics levels harvest mathematics levels harvest rig steak dam called Elzevir guessing come mathematics levels harvest mathematics levels harvest rig steak dam called Elzevir guessing come mathematics levels harvest orchestra tightened pug Stral pharmacy picturesque pug Stral religion uninstall orchestra orchestra tightened pug Stral pharmacy picturesque pug Stral religion uninstall orchestra stem kill residence formality Leave less desolation nay even sperm Leave less desolation nay even islam entire penicillin stem kill residence fishmonger seal drivers to ay hellenian drivers to ay hellenian fishmonger seal fishmonger seal drivers to ay hellenian drivers to ay hellenian fishmonger seal Bonaventure men All appliances purchase modes work noise waves beach floods work noise waves beach floods likable will mankind know knew Bonaventure men Bonaventure men All appliances purchase modes work noise waves beach floods work noise waves beach floods likable will mankind know knew Bonaventure men Bonaventure men All appliances purchase modes work noise waves beach floods work noise waves beach floods likable will mankind know knew Bonaventure men fanatical together sound coffin digging fair the peas woodpile petrol The Victim's Journal #0003 Aside these nodding plumes dragging while try impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark ruthless telematics impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark Aside these nodding plumes dragging while try impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark ruthless telematics impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark institutions bottles seemed games apprehend games highway Sickness sits caverned hollow eye institutions bottles institutions bottles seemed games apprehend games highway Sickness sits caverned hollow eye institutions bottles institutions bottles seemed games apprehend games highway Sickness sits caverned hollow eye institutions bottles information stage maximum little stage maximum information information stage maximum little stage maximum information Aside these nodding plumes dragging while try impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark ruthless telematics impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark contagion flash here powerful ornament us forty years here powerful last south founding contagion contagion flash here powerful ornament us forty years here powerful last south founding contagion southern related betrayed liquor know strong liquor know strong symbol partridge English brothers southern related betrayed liquor know strong liquor know strong symbol partridge English brothers southern related betrayed liquor know strong liquor know strong symbol partridge English brothers softness smock enlarges vienna surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair stable scatter trough surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair network distributor softness softness smock enlarges vienna surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair stable scatter trough surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair network distributor softness contagion flash here powerful ornament us forty years here powerful last south founding contagion ordain subdue looked sniffed one seen knew twas never guessed hand pointed five one seen knew twas never guessed verbatism current paralysis ordain subdue looked ordain subdue looked sniffed one seen knew twas never guessed hand pointed five one seen knew twas never guessed verbatism current paralysis ordain subdue looked rat recommend knaves slaves shall smart leaf sweating fear hold vacuum-father speak leaf court optional warehouse rat recommend rat recommend knaves slaves shall smart leaf sweating fear hold vacuum-father speak leaf court optional warehouse rat recommend rat recommend knaves slaves shall smart leaf sweating fear hold vacuum-father speak leaf court optional warehouse rat recommend re-education wiener exact progress easy vicinity sermon re-education re-education wiener exact progress easy vicinity sermon re-education august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:24:52 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Is it flarf without Google? Mary Burger: writing with an edge Robert Lowell & the poetics of the Third Way Louis Cabri on allusions, up or down Spidertangle: the_book On the margins between poetry & visual art come needlepoint & more Reading "Biotherm" by Frank O'Hara Ted Berrigan: 1934-1983 How strange to be gone in a minute! Robert Lowell & the process of literary CPR Reading Carla Harryman: Situating poetry along new boundaries Malevich: Off center, thinking with material & shape http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ 60,000 hits since September 2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:44:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: RIP: Bob Hope (1903-2003) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This from the last section ("Hope: An Elegy") from "The Bob Hope Poem" in Campbell McGrath's *Spring Comes to Chicago* [Ecco Press, 1996]. Would you believe it, if I told you, that even now, as I write these lines, as I dance this little caffeine-buzz shuffle, word comes over the radio that Bob Hope has passed over to the great beyond, gone to fetch his eternal reward, retired at last to vaudeville Valhalla, that heavenly Pro-Am, that never- ending celebrity roast in the sky? What matter if it's true, if it is inevitable? If not today, tomorrow; if not tomorrow, yesterday. Who among us can predict the future? For that matter, who can predict the past, except to say that this, too, shall surely pass, that death is nothing if not absolute? Already I see his picture on the cover of *People* magazine, young and beautiful Bob, smiling his smile of purest mastery, leering the leer of an era untroubled by doubt or uncertainty. Bob agog with Bing on the golf course, Bob playing kissy with second- string starlets. Bob pushing Pepsodent, Bob shopping Oscars, Bob selling war bonds with Eleanor Roosevelt. Bob in the jungles of Guadalcanal, Bob raising the flag on Iwo Jima, Bob as Coyote, Bob as Loki, Bob in the ashes of Nagasaki. Bob as cook, Bob as Darwin, Bob as Columbus, Bob as Buzz Aldrin. the Museum of American History, Bob teeing off in the Sea of Serenity. Bob the body and Bob the shadow, Bob the echo and Bob the call. Bob the imperial envoy of the American System, Bob the corporate janissary, Bob the mad jester of cultural hegemony. THANKS FOR THE MEMORY! So long. Farewell. Good-bye, sweet Bob. Adios, adieu, aloha. Sayonara, as Bing would say. Sayonara on a steel guitar. --Campbell McGrath ===== Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:22:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: ghazal file In-Reply-To: <6d.162695b2.2c55f91c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii when I think of "content should dictate the form" I certainly think of Mr Olson and a certain postmodern picture of a western (or let's say "global") writer well versed in various forms and poetic traditions--beginning the scratchy notes in the notebook, following the "content" to the appropriate form: like 1) oh this seems to want to be a sonnet or 2) famous story about E Bishop changing "One Art" from a prose essay into a villanelle or 3) the writer friend (or workshop teacher) saying "have you investigated the ghazal form or the pantoum--they are suited to highlighting an "obsessive" quality (this last was actually said to me once) but what if I writer is working within a specific tradition--or even no tradition at all. what if the writer is investigating her own quirks--her own authentic way of voice. i think of 1) dance therapy called "authentic movement" in which the patient is blindfolded and set loose in a studio--allowed to move as they like and is observed carefully (and protected) by the therapist who'se watching and perhaps notetaking the whole time. the dancer is developing her own "vocabulary" of movement completely uninhibited. didn't the form of B.K. Rider's "vertical interrogation of strangers" develop something like this?--women in a room alone with paper and pencil to write spontaneous answers to the set of given questions. (strongly recommend this book by the way) 2)postmodern writers influenced by Olson (I think most clearly of Alice Notley) who move restively and restlessly through forms in order to search out deeper meaning. Is it really fair to say of "Descent of Alette" or "Disobedience" that form is "never more than an extension of content"? In both of those books qualities of "form" and "content" blur completely. Why give primacy to one over the other? 3) for the true elimination of "form" and "content" try listening to Ono music. I'll recommend a couple of compositions: "Airmale" or "You" on the second disc of the "Fly" album, "Mulberry" on the "Blueprint for a Sunrise" album, or "Cambridge" (with John Lennon) on their album "Unfinished Music #2: Life with the Lions" HZ I'm not sure I'm contradicted anything you've said. --- Harriet Zinnes wrote: > Dear Kazim Ali > > But surely the content should dictate the form. > What appears in a sonnet > should have a different feeling from what appears in > a ghazal Rhythms, rhymes, > formal structures are the demands of feelings not of > structures. > > Harriet ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:14:02 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: review of angela rawlings reading in corner brook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thackray, who set up the reading. the opening line is a reference to my comment that it was scalding here in st. john's KAH: Do you mean "scalding" in the Anglo-Saxon sense of the word, "performing like a skald"? Well, it was "skalding" here on Monday night. Angela's reading was great. We had about 35-40 out, mostly young people. The response was good, and a number of audience members have since told me how much they loved it--especially the impact of Angela's voice. Angela is a very polished reader/performer. She read mainly from material available on her web-page, but the translation from hyper-text to performance was nicely handled. She introduced a couple of the pieces as attempts to simulate the effects of internet reading procedures in an oral form--self-interrupting, fragmented, processual pieces of pieces which flirted with the listener's attempts to make connections. Some listeners probably found the fragmentation off-putting, but Angela's preoccupation with the erotics of language helped to keep everybody attentive. She read from sections of "wide slumber," from "LOGYoLOGY," and! paid tribute to H. Sakatura and Berrigan by opening and closing with poems by each respectively. In all, as I said above, it was a polished, nicely performed, sexy 30 minutes. She's more subdued than Bok or Wershler-Henry, but has learned from their methods. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:14:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As to the English correlative, see the work of John Carley, Denis Garrison, et al (zips and crystallines, for two examples).I could also point you to the World Haiku Club, chaired by Susumu-san Takiguchi. Terrie > < > I really think that Kazim has hit on something important here. It helps to > explain some of my uneasiness at Korean and Japanese forms of poetry > transplanted into English as well--most notably haiku, and the rafts of it > being written by people who know nothing of Japanese and Japanese context. > I've come to the conclusion that some forms of poetry simply don't "fit" > English, and the cookie cutter imposition of them onto English results > in--well, not real ghazals and not haiku to be sure--but those cosmetic > efforts that Kazim speaks of here. I've seen some successful English > language Pantoums--or at least interesting English poems that result from > the imposition of that form... > > It's easier, I believe, to trade forms among the Romance languages and have > an effective English language poem as the result. > > !--StartFragment--> > I feel like I have been doing a very weak andinadequate job of expressing > the > complex ideas behindthe form. I feel unsure about speculating about > AghaShahid > Ali's intentions regarding his (strenuous)efforts to introduce the ghazal to > Western writers,but my sense is that he did indeed understand that he was > really > only introducing formal qualities of theform--sort of cosmetic, but I bet > his > hope was thatthe actual writing might inspire some of thethinking--deep > thinking--that creates/is created bythe form itself and the way it fits into > Arabic/Persian/Turkish/Urdu literary tradition. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:10:29 -0400 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: transcontinental guides 8/15 deadlines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are the guides. If you wish to buy last years Winner, Rodney Koeneke, the book is $12 including postage, damn it is good, better than the righteous notion of Flarf, the judge had good taste, a sweet book--- --------------- Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press Each year Pavement Saw Press will seek to publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selection is made anonymously through a competition that is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose.The author receives $1000 and copies. The judge of the competition will be announced after the contest. Previous judges have included Bin Ramke, David Bromige and Howard McCord. This years judge is Judith Vollmer. Last year two books were published. One chosen by the judge (who won publication and monetary prize) and one by the editor (whose book was published with a royalty contract). All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. Entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages and no more than 64 pages in length. 2. A cover letter which includes a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, your signature, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. It should also include a list of acknowledgments for the book. 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. Submissions to the contest are judged anonymously. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. 5. A table of contents should follow the second title page. 6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. 7. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces that are longer than one page. Your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $15.00 (US) made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive at least one book provided a self addressed 9 by 12 envelope with $1.60 postage attached is provided. Add appropriate postage for other countries. For acknowledgment of the manuscripts arrival, please include a stamped, self-addressed postcard. For notification of results, enclose a SASE business size envelope. A decision will be reached in September. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts will be recycled, and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. Manuscripts and correspondence should be sent to: Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry P.O. Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and postmarked until August 15th only. http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Exchange on Circulars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=646 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable www.arras.net www.arras.net/weblog www.arras.net/circulars Here's the final, unedited version of Darren Wershler-Henry's and my exchan= ge (in a series of 250-word paragraphs) about the website Circulars, which = yet lives even if we treat it here as a dead project. The exchange meander= s into a discussion of blogs, group authorship, appropriation, the public s= phere, intellectual property, etc. and we get a little argumentative at the= end -- not quite Freddy vs. Jason, but enough to create wrinkles. This exc= hange forms the third part of a three section essay on the website to be pu= blished in a forthcoming MIT book. BKS: I've come up with an awkward, unsettling title for this essay:= "Circulars as Anti-Poem." I'm sure cries will be raised: So you are making= a poem out of a war? The invasion was only interesting as content for an e= soteric foray into some elitist, inaccessible cultural phenomenon called an= "anti-poem"? (There is, in fact, a lineage to the term "anti-poem" but I d= on't think it's important for this essay.) This legitimate objection is to = be expected, and I have no reply except the obvious: that a website is a cu= ltural construct, shaped by its editors and contributors, and more specific= ally, Circulars had a "poetics" implicit in its multi-authored-ness, its ad= mixture of text and image, its being a product of a small branch of the int= ernational poetry community, etc. Of course, the title also suggests that t= his website has some relationship to a "poem," but perhaps as a non-site of= poetry=E2=80=94as it is a non-site for war, even a non-site for activism i= tself, where real-world effects don't occur. But my point for now is that t= he fragmentary artifacts of a politicized investigation into culture=E2=80= =94Gramsci's Prison Notebooks for example=E2=80=94has an implicit "poetics"= to it, but standing opposite to what we normally call a "poem." This sugge= sts roles that poets can play in the world quite divorced from merely writi= ng poetry (or even prose, though it was the idea that poets could contribut= e prose to the anti-war cause=E2=80=94as speech writers or journalists, per= haps=E2=80=94that initially inspired the site.=20 DWL: Hey Brian: what are you using to count words? MS Word says the = previous paragraph has 254 words; BBEdit says 259 (me, I'm sticking to BBEd= it). Poets=E2=80=94particularly poets interested in working with computers= =E2=80=94should be all about such subtleties. Not that we should champion a= mechanically aided will to pinpoint precision (a military fiction whose ep= itome is the imagery from the cameras in the noses of US cruise missiles dr= opped on Iraq during the first Gulf War), but rather, the opposite=E2=80=94= that we should be able to locate the cracks and seams in the spectacle ... = the instances where the rhetoric of military precision breaks down. As such= , here's a complication for you: why "anti-poem" instead of simply "poetics= "? Charles Bernstein's cribbing ("Poetics is the continuation of poetry by = other means") of Von Clausewitz's aphorism ("War is the continuation of pol= itics by other means") never seemed as appropriate to me as it did during t= he period when Circulars was most active. The invocation of Smithson's site= /non-site dialectic is also apposite, but only in the most cynical sense. I= s the US bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan the equivalent of a country-wide e= xercise in land art? In any event, the relationship is no longer dialectica= l but dialogic; the proliferation of weblogs ("war blogs") during the Iraq = War created something more arborescent=E2=80=94a structure with one end anc= hored in the world of atoms, linked to a network of digital nonsites. BKS: I hesitate to tease out the "non-site" analogy=E2=80=94the s= ite itself is too variable: for me, I was thinking of Circulars as bein= g the non-site of activism, not just a corollary to the sweat and presence = of people "on the streets" but a vision of a possible culture in which thes= e activities (otherwise abandoned to television) can exist, not to mention = reflect and nourish culturally. That is, are our language and tropes going = to change because of the upsurge in activity occurring around us - in the f= orm of poster art, detourned "fake" sites, maverick blogging? I admit that = some of what we've linked to is nothing more than glorified bathroom humor,= but nonetheless if the context creates the content for this type of work a= s a form of dissent, I think that should be discussed, even celebrated. I h= aven't read too much about this yet. Thinking of Circulars as the "non-site= " of the bombing itself is both depressing and provocative: it's no secret = that one of the phenomena of this war was not the unexpected visibility of = CNN, but Salam Pax's Dear Raed blog, written by a gay man from the heart of= Baghdad (even now he is remaining anonymous because of his sexuality). I c= ould see Circulars as a "poetics" but I prefer to think it as an action = with a poetics, my own tendency being to think of poetry as the war sid= e of the Clausewitz equation, simply because poetics seems closer to diplom= acy than a poem. DWL: The variability and heteroegeneity of the site, was, I think, p= artly due to the infrastructural and technological decisions that you made = when putting the site together, because those decisions mesh well with the = notion of coalition politics (I=E2=80=99m thinking of Donna Haraway=E2=80= =99s formulation here). The presence of a number of posting contributors wi= th varied interests, the ability of readers to post comments, the existence= of an RSS (Rich Site Summary) feed which allowed anyone running a wide var= iety of web software packages to syndicate the headlines, a searchable arch= ive, a regular email bulletin=E2=80=94these are crucial elements in any att= empt to concentrate attention on the web. Too seldom do writers (even those= avowedly interested in collaboration and coalition politics) take the effe= ct of the technologies that they=E2=80=99re using into account, but they ma= ke an enormous difference to the final product. Compare Circulars to Ron Si= lliman=E2=80=99s Blog: on the one hand, you have an deliberately short-term= project with a explicit focus, built around a coalition of writers on a te= chnological and political platform that assumes and enables dialogue and di= ssent from the outset; on the other hand, an obdurate monolith that present= s no immediate and obvious means of response, organized around a proper nam= e. Sure, the sites have different goals, but Silliman=E2=80=99s site intere= sts me because it seems to eschew all of the tools that would allow any wri= ter to utilize the unique aspects of the web as an environment for writing.= And sadly, that=E2=80=99s typical of many of the writers=E2=80=99 blogs th= at exist. BKS: I haven=E2=80=99t been too bothered with those aspects of Silli= man=E2=80=99s Blog for the mere fact that it would double his time having t= o respond to the comments, many of which could be vicious flames. I=E2=80= =99ve deleted some of the comments on Circulars, in one case because the po= ster was making scandalous allegations (drugs, child molestation) about the= head of an advertising agency, and another because the poster, in American= fatwa-esque fashion, deemed that I should have a rocket shoved up m= y ass. Of course, your point is well taken=E2=80=94Silliman=E2=80=99s Blog = could use some real-time play-by-play; I=E2=80=99m sure a diagnostic essay = is forthcoming. I did set Circulars up with the intention of there being su= bsets of discussion on the site, separate groups of people who would engage= with each other over some time=E2=80=94=E2=80=9Ccommittees=E2=80=9D of sor= ts, with their own story threads. This happened for a brief period=E2=80=94= there was a lot of heat generated by one of Senator Byrd=E2=80=99s speeches= against the war, and there was a discussion about Barrett Watten=E2=80=99s= =E2=80=9CWar =3D Language.=E2=80=9D I was prepared to develop new sections= of the site if anyone so requested, though I confess to being dictatorial = about the initial set-up, basically because I know more about the web than = most poets and I hate bureaucracy. I was hoping that some of the more frequ= ent poet bloggers who were writing political material would send their more= considered material for posting to Circulars, but most simply posted to th= eir own blogs without telling me. DWL: I=E2=80=99m not suggesting that blogs and newsforums should be = about the abrogation of editorial control=E2=80=94far from it. It=E2=80=99s= always necessary to do a certain amount of moderation and housecleaning, w= hich, as you well know, takes assloads of time. During its peak, I was spen= ding at least 2 or 3 hours a day working on Circulars, and I=E2=80=99m sure= you put in even more time than that, even with the help of the other indus= trious people who were writing for the site. Which takes me back to the val= ue of the coalition model: a decent weblog NEEDS multiple authors to work e= ven in the short term. The classic example of a successful weblog is Boing = Boing , a geek news site that evolved from a magazine = and accompanying forum on the WELL in the late 80s/early 90s. Mark Frauenfe= lder, the original editor, has worked with many excellent people over the y= ears, but the current group (including Canadian SF writer/ Electronic Front= ier Foundation activist Cory Doctorow, writer/video director David Pescovit= z and media writer/conference manager Xeni Jardin) presents a combination o= f individual talent and a shared vision. There=E2=80=99s nothing *wrong* wi= th personal weblogs, but, like reality TV, they get awfully thin over time.= Even when the current search technologies adapt to spider the extra text t= hat blogging has created, the problem of anemic content isn=E2=80=99t going= to go away unless we start doing more collective writing online. The probl= em is partly a need for education; most writers are still in the process of= learning how to use the web to best advantage. BKS: I'm not sure that it's necessary for a blog to be multi-authore= d; what it really needs is a mandate, and it's possible that, were the mand= ate simply to produce rich, incantatory prose -- imagine the Marcel Proust = blog -- a highly disciplined approach could work. Steve Perry's Bushwarsblo= g, for example, succeeds quite well on this level (not the Proustian but th= e muckraker), as does Tom Mantrullo's Swiftian Commonplaces. Both of them h= ave "political" agendas, but they are also well-written and thoughtful for = what are in effect news publications without an editor. It helps that these= two are journalists and conceptualize their blogs as a distinct form of ne= ws writing alternative to the mainstream -- the individual voice is sharpen= ed by an informed sense of the social arena in which it will resonate (in w= hich the message will ultimately become dulled). Just today, Tom posted a l= ink to the Times story on corporate blogging=E2=80=94yecch -- and has coine= d this aphorism, a detournement from Foucault though sounding somewhat Capt= ain Kirkish to me, to describe his project: "To blog is to undertake to blo= g something different from what one blogged before." A version of "make it = new" but with the formal precedent being the blog itself -- a vow not to le= t individual "multi-authoring" become equal to corporate mono-glut. Perhaps= the model blog is that which responds to the formal issues of other blogs = as if they were social issues (i.e. beyond one's "community"), hence transf= orming the techne of the writer into a handling of hypertextual craft. DWL: It=E2=80=99s all to easy too imagine the Marcel Proust blog=E2= =80=94Christ, what a nightmare (shades of Monty Python: =E2=80=9CProust in = his first post wrote about, wrote about =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D). Endless stream= s of novelistic prose, no matter how incantatory, are *not* what I want to = read online. William Gibson, for one, thinks there=E2=80=99s something inim= ical about blogging to the process of novel-writing. I think that the parag= raph-as-=E2=80=9Cpost=E2=80=9D is the optimal unit of online composition, a= nd that an optimal online style would be some sort of hybrid of prose poetr= y and healthy geek cynicism (imagine a Slashdot full of Jeff= Derksens). But I think I see your point, that it=E2=80=99s possible for on= e writer to produce the kind of dialogic multiplicity that could sustain a = blog. There is, however, a large difference between =E2=80=9Cpossible=E2=80= =9D and =E2=80=9Clikely.=E2=80=9D IMO, as less stratospheric talents than t= he geniuses of high modernism, we stand a better chance of generating stron= g content collectively. Another model that I find promising is the Haddock = Directory -- a site I=E2=80=99ve been reading daily for a= t least 4 years. Haddock has recently moved to a two-column format: standar= d blog description-plus-link on the left (maintained by the site=E2=80=99s = owner and editor-in-chief, if you will) and entries from the Haddock commun= ity blogs, identified by author, on the right. It=E2=80=99s a very neat exa= mple of the effective aggregation of data within a particular interest grou= p. And it seems to follow Stein=E2=80=99s dicta =E2=80=9CI write for myself= and for strangers.=E2=80=9D BKS: I=E2=80=99m still curious about the line =E2=80=9Cgenerating st= rong content=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94what do you mean by =E2=80=9Ccontent=E2=80=9D= ? My guess is not =E2=80=9Cwriting=E2=80=9D as we know it, but some admixtu= re of links, intro paragraphs, pictures, HTML formatting, that creates a dy= namic, engaging, and timely space on the screen. =E2=80=9CContent=E2=80=9D = moves from =E2=80=9Cwriting=E2=80=9D to the shape one creates by selectivel= y linking to other sites, serving, but also provoking, a =E2=80=9Cparticula= r interest group.=E2=80=9D (I wrote earlier today in a dispute over blogs: = =E2=80=9CCirculars was a short-term effort (or as short-term as the war) th= at was a response to what I sensed was, or would be (or hoped to be) a mome= nt of crisis in terms of American self-identification.=E2=80=9D Who would h= ave thought, ten years ago, that a group of weblinks and writing could cont= ribute to a crisis in national identity?) Most writers would probably feel = demeaned to be referred to as =E2=80=9Ccontent managers,=E2=80=9D as if all= writing were a versioning of some other writing (put it back in your pants= , Harold), but, frankly, we=E2=80=99re admitting for a whole lot of plagiar= ism in this concept of =E2=80=9Ccontent.=E2=80=9D I think the blog-ring mod= el on haddock.org is strong, since it lets writers tend their gardens, deri= ving whatever classic satisfactions one gets from writing, and yet contribu= te unwittingly to a larger collective. I agree: some =E2=80=9Ctypes=E2=80= =9D of writing just work better online=E2=80=94claustrophobic syntax= , also non-sequiturs, drives readers back to hunt for hearty prose (though = writers like Hitchens seem to be as uncompromisingly belle-lettristic on sc= reen as on paper). DWL: I like to think of myself as a malcontent provider. As s= omeone who works regularly with found text, copping to the =E2=80=9Cplagiar= ism=E2=80=9D that=E2=80=99s at the heart of all =E2=80=9Coriginal=E2=80=9D = writing doesn=E2=80=99t worry me at all; in fact, I=E2=80=99m beginning to = think it=E2=80=99s a necessary strategic position for artists at this parti= cular moment in history. As thinkers like Siva Vaidyanathan and Lawrence Le= ssig have been arguing strenuously for the last few years, the concept of i= ntellectual property is a relatively recent, regressive invention that has = nothing to do with the reasons that copyright was established two hundred y= ears ago, and that it actually reverses copyright=E2=80=99s original functi= on =E2=80=93 to provide a short-term monopoly solely to drive innova= tive thought, not to create perpetual profit. Artists in many disciplines a= re increasingly moving toward creative processes based on appropriation, sa= mpling, bricolage, citation and hyperlinking, but the multinationals and th= e entertainment industries are driving legislation in the exact opposite di= rection by arguing that ideas can and should be owned. Artists and writers = who have a large investment in their own =E2=80=9Coriginality=E2=80=9D do u= s all a serious disservice by refusing to recognize and protect the public = domain =E2=80=A6 the very thing that makes ongoing artistic activity possib= le. So by all means, yes, don=E2=80=99t just =E2=80=9Cwrite=E2=80=9D (a ver= b which in many cases bears the superciliousness of the Romantic), build (m= al)content. Bring on the hyperlinks, intro paragraphs, pictures, PHP script= s and HTML formatting, especially if they help to demonstrate the mutual in= debtedness that all creativity entails. Use Your Allusion. BKS: Copyright laws may never expire fast enough for internet plagia= rizers who want appropriation now, but I haven=E2=80=99t heard anyth= ing recently about the Edison company suing Napster, nor did the estate of = George Meredith go after David Bowie for stealing =E2=80=9CModern Love.=E2= =80=9D Unfortunately, for poets it hardly matters=E2=80=94if there were a P= 2P system for trading poems, we=E2=80=99d love it, and so poetry may be not= a rich ground for recruitment in this battle. No one cared about the Vanei= gem series until the Times cease-and-desist letter came in (Vaneigem sti= ll doesn=E2=80=99t care); it=E2=80=99s the reverse of that Benny Hill r= outine in which a pervert=E2=80=99s trying to look up a lady=E2=80=99s skir= t=E2=80=94once she takes it off and stands there in a bikini, he loses inte= rest. Poets are already in the public domain=E2=80=94we=E2=80=99re flounder= ing there, certainly not unwittingly, but nobody asks permission to steal t= heir turns-of-phrase, their new sentences and rhetorical ticks, or any ling= uistic innovation. As for creative products geared toward highlighting how = indebted creativity is to reworkings of other cultural products=E2=80=94I l= ike them, of course, but didn=E2=80=99t this trend already pass, along with= Verfremdung effects in theater=E2=80=94 placards, talking to the audience,= sweating on them? Kenny=E2=80=99s Day is an exception, but it took him 836= pages to be one. I welcome the challenge of working with language apart fr= om appropriation, I suppose because, on the web, I=E2=80=99m all about appr= opriation=E2=80=94The Truth Interview, Circulars, etc.=E2=80=94and non-appr= opriative stuff=E2=80=94programming Flash, =E2=80=9Cwriting=E2=80=9D poems= =E2=80=94seems fresh again. Ah, the dialectic! DWL: If we treat creative products geared toward highlighting how in= debted creativity is to reworkings of other cultural products as a trend th= at=E2=80=99s had its time, we=E2=80=99ll get precisely the culture we deser= ve =E2=80=93 i.e. one with no public domain (with the Supreme Court=E2=80= =99s rejection of the Eldred appeal of the Sonny Bobno Copyright Extension = Act and Mexico considering extending copyright to life-plus 100 years an= d allowing the government to collect royalties on works in the public d= omain, we=E2=80=99re that much closer to a continent-wide lockdown). And wh= ile I agree in spirit with the notion that poetry=E2=80=99s value is arbitr= ary (which, for the most part, means it=E2=80=99s valueless), as someone wh= o ran a press for five years, I know all too well that (a) poets are as cap= able of getting all pissy about contracts as any other kind of writer and (= b) that no business is too small to receive a cease-and-desist letter from = a multinational hell-bent on maxing out the value of its intellectual prope= rty holdings. Besides, with Circulars, I thought that the project wasn=E2= =80=99t poetry qua poetry as much as it was expanding an innovative = poetic sensibility outward into policy and politics =E2=80=A6 which means, = in my mind at least, championing the values of an open relationship to cont= ent. As writers, we need to have the freedom not only to repost and reconte= xtualize the news of the moment, but also to deconstruct, d=C3=A9tourne and= all of those other French verbs that start with D, without a constant fear= of litigation. BKS: Circulars was indeed intent, on the most abstract level, on =E2= =80=9Cexpanding an innovative poetic sensibility outward into policy and po= litics,=E2=80=9D but not to argue for that sensibility. I agr= ee that a liberated public domain is necessary to maintain the type of free= -wheeling, free-borrowing public discourse necessary in a heteroglot= =E2=80=9Cdemocracy=E2=80=9D but, alas, the point of the site was to upset = a government and exploit any means necessary in creating the sort of fervor= one might associate with a =E2=80=9Crevolutionary=E2=80=9D culture. Approp= riation was one suprisingly popular means. Tom Raworth=E2=80=99s poem =E2= =80=9CListen Up,=E2=80=9D written in the voice of a bigoted warmonger in ti= ght couplets and submitted as a joke to the =E2=80=9CPoets For the War=E2= =80=9D website, was another (and stronger for being sui generis). I = do think the torrent of =E2=80=9Cremixes=E2=80=9D and detournements = that ensued leading up to the war put centerstage a seething but as yet und= erground counterculture that shares many of your (and my) views on =E2=80= =9Cproperty=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 that could go somewhere. This is a generatio= n of people who are on the other side of the paradigm shift regarding cultu= ral property =E2=80=93 that and other values could be the seed of a new, bu= t as yet themeless, sensibility. My hope with Circulars was to illustrate t= he potential power of such sites in times of crisis as provocative, popular= cultural tools, and to put our =E2=80=9Cavant-garde=E2=80=9D poetics to th= e service of a specific cultural effort, not to refresh arguments fo= r classic avant-garde gestures themselves. But, of course, intentions are n= either here nor there. DWL: Okay, time to boat this bass. I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99= s possible to separate advancing an argument from at least the implicit sup= port for the underlying sensibility =E2=80=93 otherwise, you have no credib= ility. If the arguments you make succeed to some extent in supporting the c= ultural effort in question, then there is still some point in proceeding to= operate from that underlying sensibility, because you=E2=80=99ve demonstra= ted its efficacity. Circulars was a beautiful thing because, within the man= date it established for itself, it worked =E2=80=A6 but part of the reason = that it worked is that there=E2=80=99s something useful in the fusion of in= novative poetics, geek culture and a transnational left/oppositional politi= cs. That=E2=80=99s a more quiet stance than revolution, but I=E2=80=99m not= a revolutionary, just a frustrated idealist with a talent for synthesis. A= s we continue to glue new fins and antennas to our weird little poetic cybe= rspaceship, I can=E2=80=99t help but feel that the underlying sense of the = mission continues to evolve. I mean, I=E2=80=99ll use some of the technique= s that the historic avant garde has to offer, but am not interested in many= of its values (opacity, for instance) and am skeptical of the potential fo= r revolution. That doesn=E2=80=99t mean that I won=E2=80=99t try to cruft t= ogether a more amenable space (for and with anyone who=E2=80=99s interested= in being involved) in the interstices of late capitalism with whatever too= ls and materials are available. Right now, that means, among other things, = websites, weblogs, mailing lists and whatever else we find along the way. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:15:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: square sence fallout shelter In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable from: succubus in my pocket square sence fallout shelter I was in a square sense fallout shelter hiding from the = crisscross=20 perception zone=92s hackneyed eyes. that=92s how I first met helen of = troy,=20 who was counting cans of condensed milk, wearing a typical black metal=20= see-through military style fatigues. I was hiding in the shadows=20 amongst the hundred year batteries and short wave cans of soup,=20 crouched like a lifeless potato staring into the echoes of mustard gas=20= and anthrax, sure at any moment the attack siren would sound, cinder=20 blocks would melt and the heavens would merge with the mythical hells=20 I=92d heard so much about. =09 I was just sitting there in the dark edges gazing upon this = angel in=20 see-through military style fatigues, counting cans - =93one hundred and=20= fifty one, one hundred and fifty two, one hundred and fifty three=94 -=20= checking the correct numbers against the correct number on a cheap=20 steno pad. glancing up in a breath, this fatigued mirage must have=20 thought there was something in my direction. so I played the gargoyle=20 figure perched ready to deflect evil intentions hoping to divert=20 reason. it didn't work, helen was approaching me with a gallant left=20 hand overview - -my child what are you doing down here and up there, don=92t you = have=20 attention to details to do? with the slow motion jerkiness of a bad movie I glanced at this=20= authoritative beauty=92s face, caked with a whole jar of foundation,=20 coming out of the shadows into three color animation. -my god child . . . I demand to know who got you here! and without a break between quests of wind and shark attacks, I=20= screamed- -they=92re coming, any second now. . . they=92re coming, can=92t = you can=20 hear them, they=92re entering subspace, they=92re coming and no one's = sent=20 introductions. what's to become of us? how will a town survive on two=20 hundred cans of condensed milk and three hundred boxes of food=20 byproducts? . . . it=92s useless . . . we=92ll die before the growth has=20= faded . . what shall we do? I could feel myself go, I was getting caught up in my own panic,=20= declaring myself insane for thinking there was a possible escape hatch.=09= -what are you saying child? are you saying do or die, join or = lose our=20 mind? don't you know the government will protect us . . . we are as=20 safe as a pork rind sandwich left on the table for days. I could hear this helen was saying something. I could also = hear=20 helen=92s thinking process - =93this crazy wildebeest is caught in a = trap,=20 receiving imported data, but from where and how did it get here? in an=20= instant, a mesmerized moment, the lie of lies produced a believable=20 fiction and the runny nose turned into full blown advanced-stage of=20 syphilis, helen started to catch on - -what are you talking about? is this true? when are they suppose = to be=20 here? have the others been warned? to be convincing I had to continue with my monologue. I knew my=20= paranoia was there but not yet fixed on an object - -I heard it this morning, it came from the west as a faint = breath . .=20 . the final orders . . . a massive fire of doomsday rockets . . .=20 they=92re coming, they should be here three minutes before noon. -my child, my child . . . I heard the wind this morning and it = wasn't=20 a call to arms, but a work crew plotting the demolition of a bridge on=20= the new york state thruway, and given the fact I had read the urgent=20 bulletin of things to know in order to topple emotional defeat in=20 crossover situations the night before, there was a simple explanation.=20= my dear this is just a demolition party, not destruction, not the final=20= solution. it was on the page that told of things to come . . . didn=92t=20= you read the daily forecast and political commentary yesterday? for a moment in the shadow my shutter switched to something that=20= resembled a stable form factory, not quite concrete, more stretched=20 flesh particles in mass production - -well . . . ahh . . . I was . . . well . . . it seems as if it = just=20 jumped off the page and did a jig around my head, I am sure that's what=20= I heard, I am sure. reaching over and touching my shoulder. -that will not happen . . . you can trust me, everything will be = fine,=20 just come down from there, it will be fine. I won=92t hurt you . . .=20 please come down and let me help you. coaxed down from my perch, I was sure at any moment I would = smell=20 the stench of the walking dead greeting us. helen lead me through the=20 lead doors and up the stairs to a lime green nurse=92s station. I=20 followed due to self doubt. the thought of existing with canned food=20 byproducts and condensed milk never appealed to me as a place to=20 settle. all the while helen keep saying with a carrot and stick method - -please, this is what you need. I=92ll take you there. I will = deliver=20 you to the place where you can see the outcome, with it=92s measurable=20= and observable results. what choice did I have, a savior, an inflatable raft, a = measurable=20 outcome? isn't that what picasso said, sign on the double dotted line?=20= =93all you need to come up with is something bigger, brighter, = different,=20 newer . . . the time is now . . . demand results . . . orient objects=20= . . . sign on the double dotted yellow line . . . this is the future=20 present.=94 -all I ask, please, no sudden noises, no pledge of allegiance to = the=20 flag, please . . . no . . . I promise to do my duty to god and country. which always makes me want to attempt escape from the earth=92s=20= atmosphere, but I didn't want to tell helen that at this point, for=20 fear of leather restraints. =09 speaking to me in a butter tone, helen said no pledge to the flag . . . no flag wavers, no flag burners, I = will=20 even take down my self-portrait of betsy ross, will you follow me then? Yes, yes . . . I will follow you anywhere. reluctantly, but on demand I followed this angel and found the = usual=20 panel of color bind experts ready to pass judgment, or that=92s what=20 their lapel stickers said - =93we are color blind don't worry.=94 I did=20= feel little betrayed when I heard helen tell the panel of experts=20 something about this child was based in a magellan process or soon=20 would be and that they would need another commander for the seventh=20 fleet. but what options did I have - a savior, an inflatable raft, a=20 measurable out comes, return to a wall of an automobile repair shops=20 after a hard day of capture and rescue . . . follow my savor to a=20 fontal lobotomy? what options did I have? I was told by the head of the panel of experts, who looked like = an=20 unfinished section of mount rushmore after the las vegas consortium=20 decided to transform it into an imitation of the santa maria and the=20 jim jones, and the other ship of columbus=92 we have never heard of, = that=20 after the evaluation was recorded and multidiagnosable questions were=20 presented to the panel of testament, they would decide whether I was in=20= psychotic mode that could be switched off like simple electronic=20 toaster oven or, were there truly ethical events that took place with=20 floating words producing effects found in distant islands, where elvis=20= and jerry lee lewis were from. I knew the options were beyond these lime green nurse=92s = station walls,=20 somewhere on the ground where it was cooler, away from the solders in=20 the dripping season. they gave me, in triplicate options, which I had=20 to sign on the double dotted line ten times before I could glance at my=20= own report. the options were either (a) a frontal lobotomy, which was=20= messy and cost the federal government years of maintenance or, (b)=20 someone would have to assist me in recapturing the floating words. I=20 liked that idea of recapturing the floating words, but wasn't sure I=20 could commit to it. as far as the lobotomy goes, well let=92s just say I=20= would rather eat meat from a outdoor vendor at coney island than let=20 them drill in my head with a three inch bit. I couldn=92t wait around to=20= see what they chose, and since I had not heard the pledge to the flag=20 the leather restraints were never used, I used the period of the=20 sentence to jump ship. edwards2003= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:17:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois-Ren=E9_Duchable?= Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable French pianist ends career with a splash Agence France-Presse - 28 July 2003 A French concert pianist ended his career Friday by hiring a helicopter to drop a worn-out piano into a lake in the south of the country.=20 Fran=E7ois-Ren=E9 Duchable played Beethoven's Third piano concerto and Saint-Sa=EBns' Second to an audience of 2,000 before the instrument was consigned to the depths of the lake of la Colmiane near Nice in southeast France.=20 He said he was retiring at the age of 51 to "change his life", far from tours with a perpetual eye on the time. The gesture, he said, was to show that everything was over, to get rid of the weight of a career.=20 "It was a purification by water," he said.=20 Purification by fire follows on August 31 at the Proven=E7al village of Mazauges. Duchable will play at a festival whose organizers have been "friends since 1984" and will end the evening by burning the clothes he performed in.=20 "I leave with a real exaltation, a great freedom for what will follow," he declared as he prepared to bury the stage-life once and for all.=20 Duchable sees himself as a "man of nature" and never liked his life as a concert pianist, or the world of music, let alone the public that came to hear him.=20 "How could I like one percent of the public since we know that 99 percent of people have no access to classical music? I cannot feel love for a public that despises others. People think being a musician reflects a passion. It doesn't. My profession has never brought me happiness," he said.=20 "My love of music has never been in question. I reject money, the tinsel, this rigid, dusty world, a whole system in which I have never been at home."=20 Duchable said from now on he wants to "live a more personal, tranquil existence, rediscover calm and solitude," to divide his time between his beloved sport of cycling, pottery, about which he knows little or nothing, and perhaps learning other musical instruments.=20 "I want to do much more interesting things than keep on doing for 30 years what I have been doing for the last 30."=20 "I have held on for 35 years," he said, recalling his first concert given when he was 16.=20 If he does return to the keyboard, it will be in circumstances of his own choosing and at his own rhythm, in hospitals, schools, prisons and asylums.=20 The pianist said he might also cooperate with actors and sound and light artists to offer another approach to classical music and plans to conduct master classes in Switzerland and Paris.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:27:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog Blog on the Boston-NY Poets Wiffleball Game MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Yesterday was the day of the Boston Poets-New York Poets wiffleball game, and it was a hoot. If you'd like to read about it, I just put up the last of a three-part 4,800 word post to my blog http://boogcity.blogspot.com/ It covers everything everything from: --irresponsible bands --the different type of baseball fans --my love of the mets --the greatest baseball game i ever saw in person --the wiffleball extravaganza--who was there, what happened before, and what happened on the field --the zinc bar wiffleball poetry reading --dinner for five --the A train past Harlem All this and more enjoy, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:01:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Exchange on Circulars In-Reply-To: <4229923.1059412324748.JavaMail.nobody@rowlf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I find this discussion/dialogue fascinating, both from having been a Circular's contributor and a reader. Without a real financial foundation, the process of hosting and maintaining the site clearly created a mounting editorial "exhaustion integer." One that may be compared to the "mimeograph revolution" of the mid-sixties - re the Detroit based Writers Workshop mag "Work", and new jazz review, "Change", or David Sandberg's "Or" magazine that emerged from the early day= s of the Haight. All of which were composed within and on top of initial majo= r historical vortexes and conflagrations - Viet Nam, Civil Rights, Drugs, new musics, New York, Beat and Black Mountain rushes in the culture. What concerns me here is what seems a premature and laying to critical rest of Circulars - particularly it's spirt and what it brought to its virtual community. Personally I think we have just gone through a little "limbo exhaust" moment which is rapidly moving back into another gear/level. If th= e first level was Opposition against the War, it seems the next level will be Purgatory, as in "political purgation." Current Progress is that now all the Democratic candidates have picked up on the anti-war energy and obviously smell impending blood. Even poor Lieberman is now saying that eve= n though he still thinks it's a "Just War", that it's time for GW to hang somebody out to dry for the WMD lies! However, my sense is things are back to picking up on a deep public level - a putting together of deficits, economic malaise,etc. - that any tax cut, for example, is just a shifting of money to help your employer pay for impossibly expensive healthcare - if you even have it. In short people are beginning to call the lie and hypocrisy on "faith based" jingo economics, war mongering, etc. etc. All of which is to say, if not Circulars, that I hope another site will emerge, or a synergy of blogs in which poets and artists can continue to ignite each other in argument, vision and support for efforts to take the knife (read TOW Missile) out of the Coup Junta. Stephen V =20 on 7/28/03 7:12 AM, Brian Stefans [arras.net] at bstefans@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > www.arras.net > www.arras.net/weblog > www.arras.net/circulars >=20 > Here's the final, unedited version of Darren Wershler-Henry's and my exch= ange > (in a series of 250-word paragraphs) about the website Circulars, which y= et > lives even if we treat it here as a dead project. The exchange meanders = into > a discussion of blogs, group authorship, appropriation, the public sphere= , > intellectual property, etc. and we get a little argumentative at the end = -- > not quite Freddy vs. Jason, but enough to create wrinkles. This exchange = forms > the third part of a three section essay on the website to be published in= a > forthcoming MIT book. >=20 > BKS: I've come up with an awkward, unsettling title for this essa= y: > "Circulars as Anti-Poem." I'm sure cries will be raised: So you are makin= g a > poem out of a war? The invasion was only interesting as content for an > esoteric foray into some elitist, inaccessible cultural phenomenon called= an > "anti-poem"? (There is, in fact, a lineage to the term "anti-poem" but I = don't > think it's important for this essay.) This legitimate objection is to be > expected, and I have no reply except the obvious: that a website is a cul= tural > construct, shaped by its editors and contributors, and more specifically, > Circulars had a "poetics" implicit in its multi-authored-ness, its admixt= ure > of text and image, its being a product of a small branch of the internati= onal > poetry community, etc. Of course, the title also suggests that this websi= te > has some relationship to a "poem," but perhaps as a non-site of poetry=E2=80=94= as it > is a non-site for war, even a non-site for activism itself, where real-wo= rld > effects don't occur. But my point for now is that the fragmentary artifac= ts of > a politicized investigation into culture=E2=80=94Gramsci's Prison Notebooks for > example=E2=80=94has an implicit "poetics" to it, but standing opposite to what = we > normally call a "poem." This suggests roles that poets can play in the wo= rld > quite divorced from merely writing poetry (or even prose, though it was t= he > idea that poets could contribute prose to the anti-war cause=E2=80=94as speech > writers or journalists, perhaps=E2=80=94that initially inspired the site. >=20 > DWL: Hey Brian: what are you using to count words? MS Word says th= e > previous paragraph has 254 words; BBEdit says 259 (me, I'm sticking to > BBEdit). Poets=E2=80=94particularly poets interested in working with > computers=E2=80=94should be all about such subtleties. Not that we should champ= ion a > mechanically aided will to pinpoint precision (a military fiction whose > epitome is the imagery from the cameras in the noses of US cruise missile= s > dropped on Iraq during the first Gulf War), but rather, the opposite=E2=80=94th= at we > should be able to locate the cracks and seams in the spectacle ... the > instances where the rhetoric of military precision breaks down. As such, > here's a complication for you: why "anti-poem" instead of simply "poetics= "? > Charles Bernstein's cribbing ("Poetics is the continuation of poetry by o= ther > means") of Von Clausewitz's aphorism ("War is the continuation of politic= s by > other means") never seemed as appropriate to me as it did during the peri= od > when Circulars was most active. The invocation of Smithson's site/non-sit= e > dialectic is also apposite, but only in the most cynical sense. Is the US > bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan the equivalent of a country-wide exercise= in > land art? In any event, the relationship is no longer dialectical but > dialogic; the proliferation of weblogs ("war blogs") during the Iraq War > created something more arborescent=E2=80=94a structure with one end anchored in= the > world of atoms, linked to a network of digital nonsites. >=20 > BKS: I hesitate to tease out the "non-site" analogy=E2=80=94the site<= /i> > itself is too variable: for me, I was thinking of Circulars as being the > non-site of activism, not just a corollary to the sweat and presence of p= eople > "on the streets" but a vision of a possible culture in which these activi= ties > (otherwise abandoned to television) can exist, not to mention reflect and > nourish culturally. That is, are our language and tropes going to change > because of the upsurge in activity occurring around us - in the form of p= oster > art, detourned "fake" sites, maverick blogging? I admit that some of what > we've linked to is nothing more than glorified bathroom humor, but noneth= eless > if the context creates the content for this type of work as a form of dis= sent, > I think that should be discussed, even celebrated. I haven't read too muc= h > about this yet. Thinking of Circulars as the "non-site" of the bombing it= self > is both depressing and provocative: it's no secret that one of the phenom= ena > of this war was not the unexpected visibility of CNN, but Salam Pax's Dea= r > Raed blog, written by a gay man from the heart of Baghdad (even now he is > remaining anonymous because of his sexuality). I could see Circulars as a > "poetics" but I prefer to think it as an action with a poetics, my= own > tendency being to think of poetry as the war side of the Clausewitz equat= ion, > simply because poetics seems closer to diplomacy than a poem. >=20 > DWL: The variability and heteroegeneity of the site, was, I think, > partly due to the infrastructural and technological decisions that you ma= de > when putting the site together, because those decisions mesh well with th= e > notion of coalition politics (I=E2=80=99m thinking of Donna Haraway=E2=80=99s formula= tion > here). The presence of a number of posting contributors with varied inter= ests, > the ability of readers to post comments, the existence of an RSS (Rich Si= te > Summary) feed which allowed anyone running a wide variety of web software > packages to syndicate the headlines, a searchable archive, a regular emai= l > bulletin=E2=80=94these are crucial elements in any attempt to concentrate atten= tion > on the web. Too seldom do writers (even those avowedly interested in > collaboration and coalition politics) take the effect of the technologies= that > they=E2=80=99re using into account, but they make an enormous difference to the > final product. Compare Circulars to Ron Silliman=E2=80=99s Blog: on the one han= d, > you have an deliberately short-term project with a explicit focus, built > around a coalition of writers on a technological and political platform t= hat > assumes and enables dialogue and dissent from the outset; on the other ha= nd, > an obdurate monolith that presents no immediate and obvious means of resp= onse, > organized around a proper name. Sure, the sites have different goals, but > Silliman=E2=80=99s site interests me because it seems to eschew all of the tool= s > that would allow any writer to utilize the unique aspects of the web as a= n > environment for writing. And sadly, that=E2=80=99s typical of many of the write= rs=E2=80=99 > blogs that exist. >=20 > BKS: I haven=E2=80=99t been too bothered with those aspects of Silliman=E2= =80=99s > Blog for the mere fact that it would double his time having to respond to= the > comments, many of which could be vicious flames. I=E2=80=99ve deleted some of t= he > comments on Circulars, in one case because the poster was making scandalo= us > allegations (drugs, child molestation) about the head of an advertising > agency, and another because the poster, in American fatwa-esque > fashion, deemed that I should have a rocket shoved up my ass. Of course, = your > point is well taken=E2=80=94Silliman=E2=80=99s Blog could use some real-time play-by-= play; > I=E2=80=99m sure a diagnostic essay is forthcoming. I did set Circulars up with= the > intention of there being subsets of discussion on the site, separate grou= ps of > people who would engage with each other over some time=E2=80=94=E2=80=9Ccommittees=E2=80=9D= of > sorts, with their own story threads. This happened for a brief period=E2=80=94t= here > was a lot of heat generated by one of Senator Byrd=E2=80=99s speeches against t= he > war, and there was a discussion about Barrett Watten=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CWar =3D Languag= e.=E2=80=9D > I was prepared to develop new sections of the site if anyone so requested= , > though I confess to being dictatorial about the initial set-up, basically > because I know more about the web than most poets and I hate bureaucracy.= I > was hoping that some of the more frequent poet bloggers who were writing > political material would send their more considered material for posting = to > Circulars, but most simply posted to their own blogs without telling me. >=20 > DWL: I=E2=80=99m not suggesting that blogs and newsforums should be abou= t the > abrogation of editorial control=E2=80=94far from it. It=E2=80=99s always necessary to= do a > certain amount of moderation and housecleaning, which, as you well know, = takes > assloads of time. During its peak, I was spending at least 2 or 3 hours a= day > working on Circulars, and I=E2=80=99m sure you put in even more time than that,= even > with the help of the other industrious people who were writing for the si= te. > Which takes me back to the value of the coalition model: a decent weblog = NEEDS > multiple authors to work even in the short term. The classic example of a > successful weblog is Boing Boing , a geek news site = that > evolved from a magazine and accompanying forum on the WELL in the late > 80s/early 90s. Mark Frauenfelder, the original editor, has worked with ma= ny > excellent people over the years, but the current group (including Canadia= n SF > writer/ Electronic Frontier Foundation activist Cory Doctorow, writer/vid= eo > director David Pescovitz and media writer/conference manager Xeni Jardin) > presents a combination of individual talent and a shared vision. There=E2=80=99= s > nothing *wrong* with personal weblogs, but, like reality TV, they get awf= ully > thin over time. Even when the current search technologies adapt to spider= the > extra text that blogging has created, the problem of anemic content isn=E2=80= =99t > going to go away unless we start doing more collective writing online. Th= e > problem is partly a need for education; most writers are still in the pro= cess > of learning how to use the web to best advantage. >=20 > BKS: I'm not sure that it's necessary for a blog to be multi-autho= red; > what it really needs is a mandate, and it's possible that, were the manda= te > simply to produce rich, incantatory prose -- imagine the Marcel Proust bl= og -- > a highly disciplined approach could work. Steve Perry's Bushwarsblog, for > example, succeeds quite well on this level (not the Proustian but the > muckraker), as does Tom Mantrullo's Swiftian Commonplaces. Both of them h= ave > "political" agendas, but they are also well-written and thoughtful for wh= at > are in effect news publications without an editor. It helps that these tw= o are > journalists and conceptualize their blogs as a distinct form of news writ= ing > alternative to the mainstream -- the individual voice is sharpened by an > informed sense of the social arena in which it will resonate (in which th= e > message will ultimately become dulled). Just today, Tom posted a link to = the > Times story on corporate blogging=E2=80=94yecch -- and has coined this aphorism= , a > detournement from Foucault though sounding somewhat Captain Kirkish to me= , to > describe his project: "To blog is to undertake to blog something differen= t > from what one blogged before." A version of "make it new" but with the fo= rmal > precedent being the blog itself -- a vow not to let individual > "multi-authoring" become equal to corporate mono-glut. Perhaps the model = blog > is that which responds to the formal issues of other blogs as if they wer= e > social issues (i.e. beyond one's "community"), hence transforming the tec= hne > of the writer into a handling of hypertextual craft. >=20 > DWL: It=E2=80=99s all to easy too imagine the Marcel Proust blog=E2=80=94Chris= t, > what a nightmare (shades of Monty Python: =E2=80=9CProust in his first post wro= te > about, wrote about =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D). Endless streams of novelistic prose, no matte= r how > incantatory, are *not* what I want to read online. William Gibson, for on= e, > thinks there=E2=80=99s something inimical about blogging to the process of > novel-writing. I think that the paragraph-as-=E2=80=9Cpost=E2=80=9D is the optimal un= it of > online composition, and that an optimal online style would be some sort o= f > hybrid of prose poetry and healthy geek cynicism (imagine a Slashdot > full of Jeff Derksens). But I think I see your point, that > it=E2=80=99s possible for one writer to produce the kind of dialogic multiplici= ty > that could sustain a blog. There is, however, a large difference between > =E2=80=9Cpossible=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Clikely.=E2=80=9D IMO, as less stratospheric talents than = the > geniuses of high modernism, we stand a better chance of generating strong > content collectively. Another model that I find promising is the Haddock > Directory -- a site I=E2=80=99ve been reading daily for at le= ast 4 > years. Haddock has recently moved to a two-column format: standard blog > description-plus-link on the left (maintained by the site=E2=80=99s owner and > editor-in-chief, if you will) and entries from the Haddock community blog= s, > identified by author, on the right. It=E2=80=99s a very neat example of the > effective aggregation of data within a particular interest group. And it = seems > to follow Stein=E2=80=99s dicta =E2=80=9CI write for myself and for strangers.=E2=80=9D >=20 > BKS: I=E2=80=99m still curious about the line =E2=80=9Cgenerating strong > content=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94what do you mean by =E2=80=9Ccontent=E2=80=9D? My guess is not =E2=80=9Cwritin= g=E2=80=9D > as we know it, but some admixture of links, intro paragraphs, pictures, H= TML > formatting, that creates a dynamic, engaging, and timely space on the scr= een. > =E2=80=9CContent=E2=80=9D moves from =E2=80=9Cwriting=E2=80=9D to the shape one creates by select= ively > linking to other sites, serving, but also provoking, a =E2=80=9Cparticular inte= rest > group.=E2=80=9D (I wrote earlier today in a dispute over blogs: =E2=80=9CCirculars wa= s a > short-term effort (or as short-term as the war) that was a response to wh= at I > sensed was, or would be (or hoped to be) a moment of crisis in terms of > American self-identification.=E2=80=9D Who would have thought, ten years ago, t= hat a > group of weblinks and writing could contribute to a crisis in national > identity?) Most writers would probably feel demeaned to be referred to as > =E2=80=9Ccontent managers,=E2=80=9D as if all writing were a versioning of some other > writing (put it back in your pants, Harold), but, frankly, we=E2=80=99re admitt= ing > for a whole lot of plagiarism in this concept of =E2=80=9Ccontent.=E2=80=9D I think t= he > blog-ring model on haddock.org is strong, since it lets writers tend thei= r > gardens, deriving whatever classic satisfactions one gets from writing, a= nd > yet contribute unwittingly to a larger collective. I agree: some =E2=80=9Ctypes= =E2=80=9D > of writing just work better online=E2=80=94claustrophobic syntax, also > non-sequiturs, drives readers back to hunt for hearty prose (though write= rs > like Hitchens seem to be as uncompromisingly belle-lettristic on screen a= s on > paper). >=20 > DWL: I like to think of myself as a malcontent provider. As > someone who works regularly with found text, copping to the =E2=80=9Cplagiarism= =E2=80=9D > that=E2=80=99s at the heart of all =E2=80=9Coriginal=E2=80=9D writing doesn=E2=80=99t worry me at= all; > in fact, I=E2=80=99m beginning to think it=E2=80=99s a necessary strategic position f= or > artists at this particular moment in history. As thinkers like Siva > Vaidyanathan and Lawrence Lessig have been arguing strenuously for the la= st > few years, the concept of intellectual property is a relatively recent, > regressive invention that has nothing to do with the reasons that copyrig= ht > was established two hundred years ago, and that it actually reverses > copyright=E2=80=99s original function =E2=80=93 to provide a short-term monopo= ly > solely to drive innovative thought, not to create perpetual profit. Artis= ts in > many disciplines are increasingly moving toward creative processes based = on > appropriation, sampling, bricolage, citation and hyperlinking, but the > multinationals and the entertainment industries are driving legislation i= n the > exact opposite direction by arguing that ideas can and should be owned. > Artists and writers who have a large investment in their own =E2=80=9Coriginali= ty=E2=80=9D > do us all a serious disservice by refusing to recognize and protect the p= ublic > domain =E2=80=A6 the very thing that makes ongoing artistic activity possible. = So by > all means, yes, don=E2=80=99t just =E2=80=9Cwrite=E2=80=9D (a verb which in many cases bear= s the > superciliousness of the Romantic), build (mal)content. Bring on the > hyperlinks, intro paragraphs, pictures, PHP scripts and HTML formatting, > especially if they help to demonstrate the mutual indebtedness that all > creativity entails. Use Your Allusion. >=20 > BKS: Copyright laws may never expire fast enough for internet > plagiarizers who want appropriation now, but I haven=E2=80=99t heard any= thing > recently about the Edison company suing Napster, nor did the estate of Ge= orge > Meredith go after David Bowie for stealing =E2=80=9CModern Love.=E2=80=9D Unfortunate= ly, > for poets it hardly matters=E2=80=94if there were a P2P system for trading poem= s, > we=E2=80=99d love it, and so poetry may be not a rich ground for recruitment in= this > battle. No one cared about the Vaneigem series until the Times > cease-and-desist letter came in (Vaneigem still doesn=E2=80=99t care); i= t=E2=80=99s > the reverse of that Benny Hill routine in which a pervert=E2=80=99s trying to l= ook > up a lady=E2=80=99s skirt=E2=80=94once she takes it off and stands there in a bikini,= he > loses interest. Poets are already in the public domain=E2=80=94we=E2=80=99re flounder= ing > there, certainly not unwittingly, but nobody asks permission to steal the= ir > turns-of-phrase, their new sentences and rhetorical ticks, or any linguis= tic > innovation. As for creative products geared toward highlighting how indeb= ted > creativity is to reworkings of other cultural products=E2=80=94I like them, of > course, but didn=E2=80=99t this trend already pass, along with Verfremdung effe= cts > in theater=E2=80=94 placards, talking to the audience, sweating on them? Kenny=E2= =80=99s > Day is an exception, but it took him 836 pages to be one. I welcome the > challenge of working with language apart from appropriation, I suppose > because, on the web, I=E2=80=99m all about appropriation=E2=80=94The Truth Interview, > Circulars, etc.=E2=80=94and non-appropriative stuff=E2=80=94programming Flash, > =E2=80=9Cwriting=E2=80=9D poems=E2=80=94seems fresh again. Ah, the dialectic! >=20 > DWL: If we treat creative products geared toward highlighting how > indebted creativity is to reworkings of other cultural products as a tren= d > that=E2=80=99s had its time, we=E2=80=99ll get precisely the culture we deserve =E2=80=93 i= .e. > one with no public domain (with the Supreme Court=E2=80=99s rejection of the El= dred > appeal of the Sonny Bobno Copyright Extension Act and Mexico considering > extending copyright to life-plus 100 years and allowing the govern= ment > to collect royalties on works in the public domain, we=E2=80=99re that much clo= ser > to a continent-wide lockdown). And while I agree in spirit with the notio= n > that poetry=E2=80=99s value is arbitrary (which, for the most part, means it=E2=80=99= s > valueless), as someone who ran a press for five years, I know all too wel= l > that (a) poets are as capable of getting all pissy about contracts as any > other kind of writer and (b) that no business is too small to receive a > cease-and-desist letter from a multinational hell-bent on maxing out the = value > of its intellectual property holdings. Besides, with Circulars, I thought= that > the project wasn=E2=80=99t poetry qua poetry as much as it was expanding= an > innovative poetic sensibility outward into policy and politics =E2=80=A6 which > means, in my mind at least, championing the values of an open relationshi= p to > content. As writers, we need to have the freedom not only to repost and > recontextualize the news of the moment, but also to deconstruct, d=C3=A9tourn= e and > all of those other French verbs that start with D, without a constant fea= r of > litigation. >=20 > BKS: Circulars was indeed intent, on the most abstract level, on > =E2=80=9Cexpanding an innovative poetic sensibility outward into policy and > politics,=E2=80=9D but not to argue for that sensibility. I agree= that > a liberated public domain is necessary to maintain the type of free-wheel= ing, > free-borrowing public discourse necessary in a heteroglot > =E2=80=9Cdemocracy=E2=80=9D but, alas, the point of the site was to upset a governmen= t and > exploit any means necessary in creating the sort of fervor one might asso= ciate > with a =E2=80=9Crevolutionary=E2=80=9D culture. Appropriation was one suprisingly pop= ular > means. Tom Raworth=E2=80=99s poem =E2=80=9CListen Up,=E2=80=9D written in the voice of a bi= goted > warmonger in tight couplets and submitted as a joke to the =E2=80=9CPoets For t= he > War=E2=80=9D website, was another (and stronger for being sui generis). = I > do think the torrent of =E2=80=9Cremixes=E2=80=9D and detournements that ensue= d > leading up to the war put centerstage a seething but as yet underground > counterculture that shares many of your (and my) views on =E2=80=9Cproperty=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=93 > that could go somewhere. This is a generation of people who are on the ot= her > side of the paradigm shift regarding cultural property =E2=80=93 that and other > values could be the seed of a new, but as yet themeless, sensibility. My = hope > with Circulars was to illustrate the potential power of such sites in tim= es of > crisis as provocative, popular cultural tools, and to put our > =E2=80=9Cavant-garde=E2=80=9D poetics to the service of a specific cultural effort, > not to refresh arguments for classic avant-garde gestures themselv= es. > But, of course, intentions are neither here nor there. >=20 > DWL: Okay, time to boat this bass. I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s possible= to > separate advancing an argument from at least the implicit support for the > underlying sensibility =E2=80=93 otherwise, you have no credibility. If the > arguments you make succeed to some extent in supporting the cultural effo= rt in > question, then there is still some point in proceeding to operate from th= at > underlying sensibility, because you=E2=80=99ve demonstrated its efficacity. > Circulars was a beautiful thing because, within the mandate it establishe= d for > itself, it worked =E2=80=A6 but part of the reason that it worked is that there= =E2=80=99s > something useful in the fusion of innovative poetics, geek culture and a > transnational left/oppositional politics. That=E2=80=99s a more quiet stance th= an > revolution, but I=E2=80=99m not a revolutionary, just a frustrated idealist wit= h a > talent for synthesis. As we continue to glue new fins and antennas to our > weird little poetic cyberspaceship, I can=E2=80=99t help but feel that the > underlying sense of the mission continues to evolve. I mean, I=E2=80=99ll use s= ome > of the techniques that the historic avant garde has to offer, but am not > interested in many of its values (opacity, for instance) and am skeptical= of > the potential for revolution. That doesn=E2=80=99t mean that I won=E2=80=99t try to c= ruft > together a more amenable space (for and with anyone who=E2=80=99s interested in > being involved) in the interstices of late capitalism with whatever tools= and > materials are available. Right now, that means, among other things, websi= tes, > weblogs, mailing lists and whatever else we find along the way. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:18:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ill commands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ill commands [root@localhost network]# i'm traveling to pennsylvania > i'll stay with my father yes i will bash: im traveling to pennsylvania ill: command not found [root@localhost network]# azure will stay as well bash: azure: command not found [root@localhost network]# my father will travel to canada bash: my: command not found [root@localhost network]# and we'll be there in pennsylvania > i promise you i'll try to write yes i will bash: and: command not found [root@localhost network]# i'll try to keep this up > i'll try to keep on writing bash: ill try to keep this up ill: command not found temp.pl 524 ls 525 temp.pl "Alan Sondheim supnumerary limbs" 526 chmod 777 temp.pl 527 temp.pl "Alan Sondheim supnumerary limbs" 528 perl temp.pl "Alan Sondheim supernumerary limbs" 529 ls 530 wc outfile 531 less outfile 532 sed 's///g' outfile > zz 533 grep -v http zz > outfile 534 wc outfile 535 sed 's/<\/b>//g' outfile > zz 536 sed 's/
//g' zz > outfile 537 less outfile 538 sed 's/CEPA//g' outfile > zz 539 less zz 540 less zz 541 sed 's/Quarterly//g' zz > outfile 542 f 543 rm outfile 544 ls 545 rm zz 546 rm qz 547 cp mindshare.cgi mindshare.pl 548 head mindshare.pl 549 mindshare.pl 550 chmod 777 mindshare.pl 551 mindshare.pl 552 ./mindshare.pl 553 rm mindshare.pl 554 t 555 cd image 556 ls 557 cd Utah 558 ls 559 unalias rm 560 rm * 561 ls 562 mount /dev/cdrom 563 cd /mnt/cdrom 564 ls 565 cp *.jpg /root/Utah 566 cd 567 cd Utah 568 ls 569 umount /dev/cdrom 570 exit 571 t 572 cd Utah 573 ftp asondheim.org 574 ls 575 exit 576 t 577 ls 578 exit 579 ls 580 startx 581 shutdown -h 582 shutdown -h now 583 t 584 cd network 585 ftp panix.com 586 ls 587 cd .. 588 ls 589 cd a 590 ls 591 tail char 592 rm char 593 cd / 594 ls 595 cd 596 ls 597 cd network 598 ls chaar 599 ls char 600 cd 601 tail char 602 mv char a 603 telnet panix.com 604 ftp panix.com 605 ls 606 df 607 zdu Utah 608 du Utah 609 cd Utah 610 ls *.mov 611 ls *.tiff 612 ls 613 exit 614 t 615 t 616 t 617 di 618 ls 619 exit 620 t 621 b 622 exit 623 t 624 exit 625 umount /mnt/cdrom 626 umount /dev/cdrom 627 umount /dev/cdrom 628 startx 629 t 630 shutdown -h now 631 t 632 f 633 cd 634 cd network 635 f 636 ls 637 cd 638 t 639 exit 640 t 641 exit 642 ls 643 startx 644 shutdown -h now 645 t 646 exit 647 startx 648 shutdown -h now 649 ls 650 t 651 t 652 t 653 netstat 654 t 655 ping www.columbia.edu 656 t 657 t 658 exit 659 startx 660 shutdown -h now 661 t 662 exit 663 ls 664 startx 665 t 666 shutdown -h now 667 t 668 exit 669 startx 670 shutdown -h now 671 ls 672 cd a 673 ls 674 rm alexis.doc 675 less az 676 tail char 677 ls 678 less trc 679 ./trc 680 less tr.txt 681 less trace.txt 682 pico -w elim2.pl 683 cp elim2.pl ~/ 684 cd 685 ls 686 ./elim2.pl < a/char > zz 687 chmod 777 elim2.pl 688 ./elim2.pl < a/char > zz 689 pico elim2.pl 690 ./elim2.pl < a/char > zz 691 wc zz 692 pico zz 693 wc zz 694 b 695 ls 696 apm 697 mv zz ww 698 ls 699 lynx wardrive.html 700 rm wardrive.html 701 du 702 df 703 ls 704 cd Utah 705 ls 706 exit 707 ls 708 cd gapi 709 cd googleapi 710 ls 711 cd / 712 ls 713 cd doc 714 ls 715 ls C* 716 Config-HOWTO 717 less Config-HOWTO 718 ls M* 719 less Modem-HOWTO 720 startx 721 shutdown -h now 722 ls 723 ftp panix.com 724 t 725 ls 726 cd a 727 ls 728 ftp panix.com 729 t 730 ls 731 less elimy.pl 732 t 733 ls 734 perl elim2.pl < elim2.pl > ll 735 f 736 ls 737 rm ll 738 cd 739 ls 740 rm ww 741 t 742 exit 743 startx 744 shutdown -h now 745 apm 746 startx 747 t 748 ls 749 cp elim2.pl a 750 f 751 t 752 t 753 shutdown -h now 754 ftp www.asondheim.org 755 ls 756 mv mod gapi/googleapi 757 ls 758 cd gapi/googleapi 759 ls 760 chmod 777 mod 761 ls 762 t 763 ls 764 ./looply.pl "I can't stand it anymore" > zz 765 wc zz 766 ./mod zz 767 pico mod 768 less zz 769 pico mod 770 ./mod 771 pico mod 772 less zz 773 pico mod 774 less zz 775 pico mod 776 ./mod 777 wc zz 778 pico zz 779 mv zz zz.htm; lynx zz.htm 780 rm zz.htm; pico zz 781 ftp panix.com 782 t 783 ls 784 ftp panix.com 785 t 786 rm zz 787 cd /network 788 cd 789 cd network 790 ftp panix.com 791 ls 792 cd 793 ls 794 wine wall.exe 795 wall wallvoid.exe 796 wine wallvoid.exe 797 rm *.exe 798 ls 799 wall hello 800 b 801 exit 802 ls 803 t 804 exit 805 date 806 ls 807 startx 808 ls 809 cd network 810 wc n? 811 apm, 812 apm 813 shutdown -h now 814 startx 815 t 816 shutdown -h now 817 startx 818 t 819 ls 820 shutdown -h now 821 setup 822 pico zz 823 ls 824 setup 825 pico zz 826 setup 827 pico zz 828 ls 829 setup 830 pico zz 831 startx 832 ls 833 setup 834 ls 835 ls 836 cd network 837 tail nb 838 wc nb 839 pico nb 840 wc nb 841 ls 842 cd 843 ls 844 cd nsmail 845 ls 846 cd 847 cd nsmail 848 ls -la 849 cd 850 cd jquick 851 ls 852 less raddat.txt 853 ls 854 less readme.txt 855 cd 856 ls 857 apm 858 pico zz 859 ls 860 ./elim2.pl < zz > yy 861 wc yy 862 pico yy 863 ls 864 h 865 mv yy zz 866 ls 867 cp zz ww 868 ./a/mod 869 cd a 870 ls 871 less mov.txt 872 ls 873 less langphil.txt 874 ls 875 h 876 rm langphil.txt 877 ls 878 less plr 879 ls 880 rm plr 881 less proc 882 ls 883 less millen 884 less millen 885 rm millen 886 ls 887 less filter.txt 888 ls 889 rm Resume.doc 890 rm resume.txt 891 ls 892 less fil 893 less filter 894 rm filter 895 less filter.txt 896 mv filter.txt filter 897 ls 898 less media.txt 899 less media.txt 900 less media 901 ls 902 rm media media.txt 903 less baghdad.txt 904 rm baghdad.txt 905 ls 906 less evil 907 ls 908 less shortbio 909 pico shortbio 910 cd 911 apm 912 date 913 ls 914 last 915 last | head 916 date 917 w 918 whoami 919 shutdown -h now 920 ls 921 f 922 t 923 ftp panix.com 924 ls 925 less zz 926 rm zz ww 927 ls 928 mv elim2.pl a 929 mv mod a 930 ls 931 standby 932 t 933 standby 934 t 935 ls 936 cd network 937 f 938 ls 939 cd 940 ls 941 startx 942 ap, 943 apm 944 shutdown -h now 945 startx 946 cd network 947 di 948 ls nb 949 wc n 950 wc nb 951 ftp asondheim.org 952 ls 953 cd 954 ls 955 t 956 ls 957 ftp panix.com 958 t 959 ls 960 df 961 apm 962 shutdown -h now 963 cd network 964 wc nc 965 startx 966 cd network 967 di 968 wc nc 969 ftp panix.com 970 t 971 shutdown -h now 972 startx 973 t 974 shutdown -h now 975 startx 976 t 977 ls 978 shutdown -h now 979 ls 980 startx 981 t 982 shutdown -h now 983 ls 984 cd network 985 f 986 t 987 ls 988 t 989 cd network 990 f 991 exit 992 ls 993 startx 994 t 995 standby 996 blah 997 shutdown -h now 998 startx 999 t 1000 shutdown -h now 1001 t 1002 standby 1003 t 1004 standby 1005 t 1006 t 1007 t 1008 cd network 1009 tail nc 1010 i'm traveling to pennsylvania i'll stay with my father yes i will 1011 azure will stay as well 1012 my father will travel to canada 1013 and we'll be there in pennsylvania i promise you i'll try to write yes i will 1014 i'll try to keep this up i'll try to keep on writing 1015 __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:36:05 PDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Ashley D. Edwards" Subject: Re: Francois-Rene Duchable Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Duchable might as well round off the four elements... by burying a piano in the earth and dropping another piano in a tornado. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:04:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: square sense fallout shelter (continued) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable from: succubus in my pocket square sense fallout shelter (continued) I took all this and used it as a tremor application when g.i. = joe=20 asked me for a date. this was no sanctioned killer, there was no sweat=20= stains signing on the double dotted line, I mean what could I say . . .=20= a famous plastic figure like that talking to me. see how its done when=20= no one knows, telling me that language didn=92t matter, it=92s all how = the=20 performance ends. even after the dog and pony show, after the movies of=20= new birth creation . . . that hand sliding up and down my thighs with=20 whistler's darken touch, that blank crotch, smooth plastic chest . . .=20= I wanted to scream . . . claim no dependents on my tax forms, but it=20 was g.i. joe, just a cheap imitation who performed in the dancing=20 crossdressed follies. I tried to say "don=92t ask - don=92t tell," but = the=20 room was paid for and there was a single queen and a multiple sized=20 bed. we played vibrating mattress for a quarter, for a quarter an hour=20= then fell asleep in a masturbation finale. usually I waited until the client was totally inebriated and = direct=20 genital contact was required. I would go down on what ever part=20 required the most work to get it over with, but g.i. joe was different,=20= I worked so hard to bring something to conclusion and it was fine until=20= joe wanted to play my part when I was already trying to hard to not=20 become a permanent accessory for the armed forces. =09 that was in the past, now I drive around searching for black ice = to=20 drive on. I think it has more to do with the fantasy of riding on=20 elusive molecules, even if they=92re in a compacted state, which is=20 better than heavy cream could ever be. once while traveling north to=20 chicago I was on black ice all the way, it must have been four inches=20= thick and extended at least one hundred feet beyond the highway. in=20 order to control the pleasure principle I drove all the way to northern=20= wisconsin, turned around and stayed on that highway for days driving=20 back and forth from southern illinois to northern wisconsin till the=20 sun came out and melted the black ice away. another time I realized=20 fate would deal the odds against my favor, so I decided to drive=20 straight from denver to buffalo on black ice, a place I knew helen=20 would be, the only one that could easily replace the crotchless crotch=20= of g.i. joe. On the way back to some place close to new jersey, some place I = call=20 home, a place I=92ve never lived . . . you see I am a realist, I know=20 what is real, so then, what I see, I see as inadequate, neither real=20 nor sublime, it is as baseless as a two string guitar played by=20 identical twins in katmandu - they think they have the tune right, but=20= it=92s nothing but harmonized humming. it had been years since I had seen helen of troy and I would = have done=20 anything to play in the drag carnival that went on every year of the=20 ten years of helen's ten year reign. every year upon arrival the=20 make-up was always caked on for a year of trial and exercise to=20 maintain that perfect clown atmosphere implied by bright red rouge, and=20= medieval green finger nail polish. still this was a queen that I would=20= have begged mercy from, I would have bore fruit and picked the labels=20 off my clothes for. even though helen had left for a different city before in a = different=20 time zone, I knew I would find helen somewhere in buffalo or find=20 buffalo somewhere in helen. besides I had stayed away too long from=20 buffalo, you see buffalo was a kinda large ghetto with options. even=20 though it had been forgotten by steel and its subsidies, it still came=20= forth with buffalo wings. I grew up sucking on those things instead of=20= my mothers tits. I have a permanent reddish stain around my lips. these=20= wings had been around for ages, a natural remedy for twenty feet of=20 snow caving in the roofs of houses. with that sweet cayenne twinge no=20 one ever notice that half the house was gone, until the middle of may. =09= so what do you do with a city that has fallen to the rats? they=20= started packaging those wings and selling them everywhere. they even=20 had a trademark protected buffalo wings shop in paris, france. that's=20 where helen went most of the time, always saying those wings are as=20 good as if they came from hell. you could even buy them on the=20 internet. the only problem was there was only so many chickens, and=20 when some gluttonous heathen from north dakota can eat eighty wings in=20= one sitting, well, that's forty wingless chickens in one sitting. the=20 city tried artificial cartilage, but that failed, so they contacted the=20= poultry cartel and did this whole ad campaign about how good roasted=20 chickens looked without their wings. it worked just like the campaign=20 for the mercury filled beer belly trout you could only find in lake=20 erie. people refused to buy chickens with wings, and all the wings went=20= to a buffalo processing plant somewhere in an old steel mill in=20 lackawanna. certainly the case of the individual has become nothing = more than=20 minute encasements . . . repeatable maneuvers such as preoccupation,=20 that's what I discovered when I realized there's only three different=20 themes in life and all of them where originally developed by the marx=20 brothers, that was repeated endlessly with different characters playing=20= the same role over and over, saying the same exact things only with=20 different clothes on. though you can read things ten times and ten more times, = the fact=20 remains, those tiny particles fixed on sheets of pulverized wood appear=20= somewhat stable, one could even say articulate, within certain majority=20= rule theme parks, this stability is perceived as nothing more than a=20 mild infraction of the time space continuum and any digression from it=20= is thought to be brought on by molecule hiccups, simple manifestations=20= at a three ring circus of unforeseen metamorphic acts, where the=20 written word becomes biological buckets of water that are no longer=20 diagnosable. it was because of this ability to separate things from their = place,=20 from stratification, that allowed me to hear the rockets that may or=20 may not have been launched the day helen of tory saw that shadowy=20 figure in the fallout shelter, it also made me see the connection=20 between black ice and g.i. joe, and allowed me to have so much fun with=20= both.= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:09:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Fine Lines Poetry Contest Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Olay=AE Total Effects Fine Lines Poetry ContestAmazing... Sapphire... = Alvarez....Bialofsky...! Now, if only Grecian Formula for Men would throw a contest! Cheers, Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@msn.com =20 Dear Kay,=20 Olay=AE Total Effects with age-defying power is committed to = empowering women to express their inner and outer beauty. Enter the Olay Total Effects Fine Lines Poetry Contest to showcase = your penchant for poetry and inspire women everywhere. We are searching = the nation for 7xceptional female poets who can make a difference = through the written word. The winning wordsmiths will be selected by 7 renowned poets-Sonia = Sanchez, Sapphire, Lee Ann Brown, Marilyn Chin, Sandra Cisneros, Julia = Alvarez, and Jill Bialosky. So start crafting your poetic masterpiece now, and then enter Olay = Total Effects Fine Lines Poetry Contest to showcase your fine written = lines to the world. Click here to enter. Winners will receive $2,000 and the opportunity to have their = poems published in the Poetry in Motion=AE program. (For more = information on this program, check out olay.com.) If you would like to unsubscribe from these mailings, click here. =A9 2003 Procter & Gamble. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Statement =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:41:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Fine Lines Poetry Contest In-Reply-To: <001401c35554$e9478c60$88a4f943@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Remember Eleanor Antin's video of herself applying makeup? Brilliant. Thanks for the notice -- I had just the thing to send them -- plus, it gives me a chance to send yet another link to *some* of the *many* makeup poems I have... http://www.unf.edu/mudlark/posters/cd.html Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:46:28 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I wonder if cultural forms can or should remain pure as they leap from culture to culture. Why should they remain pure? Is purity really possible? Even in the game of children when you pass a phrase around a circle from ear to ear the phrase changes. This is part of what's fascinating to me. A form that doesn't change is somehow dead. Everybody ought to be able to add something that strikes them as necessary to the form, or to the content. And we all must read through our own lenses, no? It's very interesting to hear about the way the ghazal is practiced in its origins, though. I enjoyed it immensely, and yet at the same time am all for postmodern mongrelism of any and every kind, as I find it fun. Now that everybody is in evrybody's fac euntil the end of time (no more separate cultures) we are going to get all kinds of bizarre mixes. I think the only way to stop it is to say that nobody can touch the ghazal form at all except orthodox practitioners from certain countries and that would be to kill the form rather than introduce it to the west, as all the attitudes and byways of these other cultures are not ours, and we can never really get inside those other cultures any more than we can attain perfect French accents when we come from places like Clear Lake, Iowa (my birthplace). It really has to be a conversation in which no one has the upper hand, but everyone has an opinion, but everyone's opinions have to be susceptible to change, on every side. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a conversation, and no friendliness could come of it. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:50:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: S.F. Bay Area Venue Still Needed Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All, Ye ole Boog editor has organized a number of Bay Area readers for a reading I have slated for Thursday, August 28. The readers are: Taylor Brady Trane DeVore Donna de la Perriere Joseph Lease Jill Stengel Chris Stroffolino Delia Tramontina and me If anyone could help, please backchannel. THANKS! as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:50:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Haiku Skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English language haiku movement = and the other folks you mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, = etc. etc. =20 I have a request: If you know of a good or great English haiku, please = post it and tell us why you find that it woks well as an English = language poem. No translations please! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:59:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: today's sicko news: Pentagon sets up stock market on atrocities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20030728_1660.html http://tinyurl.com/icy9 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:26:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: ~ Dark Energy ~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:03:51 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "subrosa@speakeasy.org" Subject: SubText[August in Seattle]Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with reading= s by Joe Donahue and Peter O'Leary at the Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, Aug= ust 6, 2003. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the ev= ening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Joseph Donahue has published several books of poetry, most recently Incid= ental Eclipse (Talisman House), heralded by John Ashbery as showing Donahue to= be =E2=80=9Done of the major American poets of this time.=E2=80=9D He is th= e co-editor, of The World in Time and Space: Toward a History of Innovative Poetry in our Tim= e as well as Primary Trouble: An Anthology of Contemporary American Poetry. = A previous member of the Subtext Collective, Donahue lives in Durham, North= Carolina and teaches at Duke University. He edits on the on-line journal= Titanic Operas. Peter O'Leary resides in Chicago were he edits LVNG magazine. He has rec= ently published the critical work, Gnostic Contagion: Robert Duncan and the Po= etry of Illness (Wesleyan University Press) and a book of poetry, Watchfu= lness (Spuyten Duyvil). He is the executor and editor of Ronald Johnson=E2= =80=99s work, editing To Do As Adam Did: Selected Poems of Ronald Johnson= (Talisman Publishing House). His poetry can be accessed through the web= site http://www.culturalsociety.org/kontakion. The future Subtext 2003 schedule is: Sep 3 - David Perry (Brooklyn) & C. E. Putnam Oct 1 - TBD and Donna Stonecipher Nov 5 - Philip Jenks (Portland) and Doug Nufer Dec 3 - Laynie Browne (Oakland, CA) and Robert Mittenthal For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:24:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you asking for one originally written in English then? I'll take this on. I'd like to see others join in as well... Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "jesse glass" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:50 PM Subject: Haiku Skeptic Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English language haiku movement and the other folks you mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. etc. I have a request: If you know of a good or great English haiku, please post it and tell us why you find that it woks well as an English language poem. No translations please! Jesse ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:43:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Enemy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Explore The First Time You Made An Enemy, Describing All The Details You Can. )click on enemy( www.alphanumericlabs.com sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:47:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: ghazal department - flanders and egypt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit m.a.g. update 1. Terrie Relf is the editor of the new ghazal department in the muse apprentice guild 2. new m.a.g. liaisons in flanders and egypt sincerely, august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:04:36 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: WTO UPDATE from Montreal - Arbitrary Mass Arrests / 17 Maritimers arrested MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII WTO UPDATE from Montreal - Arbitrary Mass Arrests / 17 Maritimers arrested Criminalization of Dissent --> Right to Protest Removed Monday, July 28, 2003 MONTREAL - At least 17 people who travelled from the Maritimes have been (or are presently being) arrested (as of noon EST) at protests against the World Trade Organization (WTO) Mini-ministerial in Montreal. About 100-200 people have been surrounded by police and are being photographed and put onto busses. Reports indicate that people were peacefully assembled, with permission, on private property at the time of their surrounding. According to CBC radio, arrestees are being charged with participating in an illegal demonstration. Another report said "participation in a riot". It is likely that the actual charge is "unlawful assembly." This morning two Maritime "Street Medics" were targeted by police "snatch squads." "Street Medics" role at the protest is to give basic first aid to injured protesters and bystanders (usually as a result of police violence and/or chemical weapons). Unfortunately, police sometimes target "Street Medics", despite the fact that their role is strictly legal. Some suggest that police target Street Medics because police chemical weapons and police violence become more effective when there are less street medics. Organizer Jaggi Singh was also arrested (surprise, surprise). The police love him. That's what you get for being an organizer and taking 'disruptive' actions such as talking into a megaphone. Funny, he never gets convicted of anything. Island resident and organizer Aaron Koleszar says "People don't need to have done anything wrong or illegal to be arrested by police. Mass arrests are frequently used (especially in Montreal) as a means to get people off the street, with additional effects of documenting their names, photos, etc, intimidating protesters, and others who might join protests, arbitrary punishment of protesters through the arrest, jail, court, legal costs, costs of returning to court, time and effort of returning to court, and so on. Some call it a tax on activism." Koleszar knows of these costs first hand. He stayed at home due to court conditions that removed his constitutional rights to travel and attend public demonstrations Some of the busses with arrestees were reportedly rocking back and forth. Even after being arrested, people are still expressing resistance to the unlawful and arbitrary arrests, and to the immoral and arbitrary actions of the WTO. As far as we know, there are no notable injuries and people are more or less safe (considering the circumstances). Arrestees names are not being made public unless / until they give their permission. If you are seeking information on a particular individual, contact Aaron Koleszar 902-659-2575. ** EMERGENCY APPEAL for Financial Support (for arrested Maritimers) Organizers are appealing to the public for financial support for arrestees. The arrested Maritimers will likely need money for bail and possibly for travel home, depending on when they are released, and when the bus returns. Those wishing to help should contact Aaron Koleszar 902-659-2575 Many thanks to all those arrested, for risking and sacrificing their freedom to expose and oppose the real criminals - the people behind the immoral and unjust policies of the WTO, and their minions. Further updates to follow... La lucha continua... Aaron Koleszar 902-659-2575 Please leave a message if there's no one here. For more info and updates, also see: Maritimes Indymedia --> http://maritimes.indymedia.org Quebec Indymedia --> http://quebec.indymedia.org Montreal Indymedia --> http://montreal.indymedia.org Popular Mobilization Against the WTO --> http://montreal.resist.ca Rock the WTO Radio --> http://rock-the-wto-radio.taktic.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:50:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic In-Reply-To: <000801c35613$1e7ece20$6f14d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- jesse glass wrote: > Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English > language haiku movement and the other folks you > mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. > etc. > > I have a request: If you know of a good or great > English haiku, please post it and tell us why you > find that it works well as an English language poem. > No translations please! Jesse I haven't seen the post this one is responding to, but had to jump in. There are zillions of great English haiku but the only one I can think of offhand because it's only one word is Cor Van den Heuvel's "tundra"--in the middle of an otherwise blank page. Two images, tundra and blank page, working off each other. Even a season word. Great because unexpected (when composed)--and, needless to say, succinct. And dealing with large things: silence, emptiness, nothingness . . . Here are two by Robert Spiess, picked almost at random for THE HAIKU ANTHOLOGY: A light river wind; on the crannied cliff hang harebell and fern Muttering thunder . . . the bottom of the river scattered with clams Both, to start with, are pretty pictures, which I consider a big plus for any poem. The first seems superior to me for comparing in a subtle way the effect of the light wind on the delicate harebell and fern with the long-term crannying effect of the river; two kinds of rivers. . . . And the wind on top of the river as the harebell and fern are on the surface of the cliff. And the near permanence of the cliff versus the transience of the wind, and river versus plants. Something of the precariousness of not only life (the harebell and fern just hanging) but of existence (the cliff crannying away). The different weights of the two movements of wind and river. In the second we also get two contrasted/harmonized images. The main magic for me inheres in the serenity of the clams. But I also like their being muffled, so to speak, in water, as the thunder is in the distance. Note, too, the spring to full-dimensionality of the poem from river-bottom to distant sky, and the sizes of the activities going on in both. And the transcience of the one versus to durability of the second (life, this time, not seeming precarious, but unstoppable). --Bob G. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:04:34 -0400 Reply-To: gmcvay@patriot.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have GOT to get out my "Scots Haiku" book (I disremember the author's name) -- as, for some incredibly bizarre linguistic reason, 5-7-5 haiku turn out to work fabulously well in Scots. Film at 11. (The Robert Burns stuff, I mean, not Scottish Gaelic.) Gwyn -- "Nobody gets paid to be a poemer." -- Bucky the cat, "Get Fuzzy" comic strip, 6/30/03 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:37:37 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: reading in corner brook Comments: To: "CPA Listserv@" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This Thursday evening, July 31st, at 8 p.m., Goh Poh Seng, Dominique Gaucher, and Jean Pierre Palletier will present an evening of poetry and translation at Casual Jack's Roadhouse, Corner Brook. Poh Seng, a native of Singapore and one of Indonesia's major writers, is the author of many novels and poems published over the past 35 years. He came to Canada in 1986, and now lives and writes in Lark Harbour. Dominique Gaucher and Jean Pierre Palletier are writers visiting from Quebec. The poets will be reading from their works (Goh Poh Seng in English; Gaucher and Palletier in French) and translating each other's works from English to French and from French to English. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:18:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 27 Jul 2003 to 28 Jul 2003 (#2003-209) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kazim Ali: I have been a fan of the ghazal off and on over the years. At the moment I'm a little off--and it may be for some of the reasons you have spelled out on the list serve recently. My understanding of the ghazal changed drastically after encountering Shahid Ali's RAVISHING DISUNITIES. In some ways it also made me less excited about the form however. Why? Well, how are these poems "disunities"? Couplets in ghazals written recently are often not distinct from one another. They can not stand on their own. In fact these ghazals are often oppressively unified. Where is the surprise? Shahid himself calls for a surprise--in every couplet actually: "One must have a sense that line 2 is amplifying line 1, turning things around, surprising us." Also, the "feeling" or associations seem forced. What I loved about the ghazal form initially was this sense of trying to force vast, complex emotions into these tiny couplets. A little like trying to get the tent back in the packaging... The ability to spring from thought to thought: how far can you stretch the notion of "spring" "weather" "wood" and still remain unified? This is exciting. The biggest difference between what I understood the ghazal to be prior to Shahid (whose own ghazals illustrate the best of what he is striving for by the way) is this repeating end word. The repitition makes the whole enterprise much more challenging, and often for me, the results are much less satisfying. Okay, I'll admit it, I often find them damn well irritating. Best, Sina FYI: Spring games, my own attempt at a Shahid inspired ghazal appears in Todd Swift's Times New Roman. http://www.nthposition.com/TNR_screen.pdf My first collection of poetry, SLIP http://www.ecwpress.com/books/slip.htm has its share of failed ghazals. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:35:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: fifteen minutes the other way In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable fifteen minutes the other way together now . . . say unsayable - throw a size bit on the table, and=20= its pain is ideologically open and principled. a figure of speech, like=20= a heart as big as wine flows. indistinguishable, simple - because made=20= of light and sound. transmitted to a reader, to a historian, to say=20 concrete dogma . . . only this isn't the whole truth - either in a deep=20= zone - not far from bankrupt archetypes - all that has been said, in=20 the middle - and it smells bad - lacerates the nose. this is your=20 autobiographical broadcasting system and 24 hour alter ego: =93have a=20 martini,=94 =93for the rest.=94 do you remember 4000 years of formal = design,=20 lots of goodies, gods and side arms? (its country western time), its=20 monkey face time, its under a rock behind the billion fold growth -=20 together . . . say unsayable. a fern in moss needles - counts down,=20 moves one to the other side calling: =93doktor faustus, doktor faustus.=94= =20 flexible anomalies, grammar trash - image induced duck faced proxy on=20= the tabula Rrossa . . . no more substitution . . . one slab and two=20 patties. check your watches . . . again the talking monolith says:=20 =93check your pockets, check the authority, invent substitutions, check=20= your monolith and cancel time. together now . . . say unsayable . . .= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:54:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kerri Sonnenberg Subject: Reading in Milwaukee Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Traverse Reading Series presents Bob Harrison and Kerri Sonnenberg Friday August 1st at 8 p.m. Jody Monroe Gallery 631 E. Center St - 2nd Fl Milwaukee, WI FREE - cash bar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:21:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I happen to be working on a book of haiku with Jungian psychiatrist David H. Rosen, the working title for which is "The Healing Spirit of Haiku." It will be illustrated by Arthur Okamura. However, what I'd like to recommend are haiku by Jack Kerouac. There's a collection out, and some of his haiku are splendid. -Joel W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:50 AM Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic > --- jesse glass wrote: > > Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English > > language haiku movement and the other folks you > > mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. > > etc. > > > > I have a request: If you know of a good or great > > English haiku, please post it and tell us why you > > find that it works well as an English language poem. > > > No translations please! Jesse > > I haven't seen the post this one is responding to, but > had to jump in. > > There are zillions of great English haiku but the only > one I can think of offhand because it's only one word > is Cor Van den Heuvel's "tundra"--in the middle of an > otherwise blank page. Two images, tundra and blank > page, working off each other. Even a season word. > Great because unexpected (when composed)--and, > needless to say, succinct. And dealing with large > things: silence, emptiness, nothingness . . . > > Here are two by Robert Spiess, picked almost at random > for THE HAIKU ANTHOLOGY: > > A light river wind; > on the crannied cliff > hang harebell and fern > > Muttering thunder . . . > the bottom of the river > scattered with clams > > Both, to start with, are pretty pictures, which I > consider a big plus for any poem. The first seems > superior to me for comparing in a subtle way the > effect of the light wind on the delicate harebell and > fern with the long-term crannying effect of the river; > two kinds of rivers. . . . And the wind on top of the > river as the harebell and fern are on the surface of > the cliff. And the near permanence of the cliff > versus the transience of the wind, and river versus > plants. Something of the precariousness of not only > life (the harebell and fern just hanging) but of > existence (the cliff crannying away). The different > weights of the two movements of wind and river. > > In the second we also get two contrasted/harmonized > images. The main magic for me inheres in the serenity > of the clams. But I also like their being muffled, so > to speak, in water, as the thunder is in the distance. > Note, too, the spring to full-dimensionality of the > poem from river-bottom to distant sky, and the sizes > of the activities going on in both. And the > transcience of the one versus to durability of the > second (life, this time, not seeming precarious, but > unstoppable). > > --Bob G. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:54:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Six. Sky. Comments: cc: 7-11 7-11 <7-11@mail.ljudmila.org>, "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 6. F.W. Murnau pulled himself up, rubbing the plague in sleepy granules from his eyes. As he did this, boulders rolled by, as if suspended in a current; somewhere at some point in his peripheral vision they dipped beyond the mess of his perception . The pavement was carpeted with blunt teeth of glass. He smiled; he knew he was smiling emptily. Jean Cocteau, he thought; was it inappropriate to think of Jean after last night? He'd stood in a field, after reading too many emails about poetry and parks; on one side, some sort of company dispatched its trucks for the night; on one side, the irrevocable back lot of a shopping center unrolled beneath a pink sky that murmured about distance , murmured and followed The Death of Love, already distraught-thin and stumbling vacantly, across the sick punches his shoes shot into the newly-rained-on grass. On one side, sleep fell like windows of a house across the nihil fragrance of tobacco interlaced with his shirt. And he didn't--or, more appropriately, couldn't--care: the blitzed starvation in that broken smile The Death of Love wore had already leached him of everything he'd known as human. So F.W. Murnau tried to think of the inhuman. Almost by reflex he thought first of the computer; the inarticulate stutter of pages and pictures building up, loading. The safety of binary, of hexadecimal, of instruction code and logic and mathematics and everything a man had to translate to touch. Every act presupposed another; in the computer, mediation upon mediation built up a skin that, because of its density, was highly polished. And yet, lying face up in that field, a dawn in gauze staining the overcast, it seemed to F. W. Murnau to be a half-hearted effort. To understand the computer, to occupy the space of the computer, was nothing more to him than a man trapped in a trick house of mirrors; the unfamiliarity of the house turned out to be only himself, distorted by his own hand. Masturbation! It sickened him to stare into a mirror all day. Jean was like that; Jean never seemed to leave himself, no matter how many long walks in the park they took together. The Death of Love, on the other hand, was the exact opposite: F.W. Murnau wondered sometimes if The Death of Love was ever herself; she stared out the windows of the apartment all morning long, blinking slowly, untouchable, with all the exclusiveness of a pariah. If Jean Cocteau, every time F.W. Murnau touched him, froze, heat spitting around him, splitting the pores of the air, The Death of Love, when similarly stimulated, would only sigh. He shrugged. He didn't see the point in much of anything anymore. Most of the trucks had left for the night. A tired-looking young man opened the back door of the Save-a-lot; he tossed a greasy white trash bag into the dumpster. Th dawn birds had stopped singing. ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:57:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby, Poetry, as I learned it, is a way of life. I mean, that in order to fulfill the promise of being a poet it meant I had to be involved with social issues, active politically, learn the languages of natural history, art, sciences, you know, be able to look outside and see that cycad and know it comes from Madagascar, and that the butterfly migrates, things like that, how a bromeliad absorbs nutrients through its leaves, not a parasite but an epiphyte, language sets vocabularies of different disciplines, music, verse, chorus, bridge. I should try and learn wide and deep, projective verse and geology, to investigate, not take information simply from pop culture, or for that matter live all the time in a book, there's a life we live across purposes and involvements, social responsibility, andall that jazz, it is the way I understood the role of the poet exemplified by my heroes as I was coming up as a kid during the 60's. It wasn't enough to get high or listen to the radio. There was nothing wrong with that, it just wasn't enough. So when it finally came to working in a nursery, that made absolute sense, that was being a poet, knowing the world, building a greenhouse was building poetry, and working in city government or with grassroots organizations, that was all about knowing a place, a location, being a poet, adding that perspective, the cultural perspective, a renaissance view, I guess, to the mix of people gathered around a cause. I believe this made a difference in the way the CAUSE manifested itself in the mind of the community (SANGHA). It was surpising for some people to see a POET able to sit down with a developer and discuss development plans and fiscal concerns, or a POET meet with the Chamber of Commerce and understand what business concerns are, speak their business language from the position of a businessman. But being of many worlds, they got into the idea that I understood their worries, I knew first hand where they were coming from, cause I owned my own business, a tropical plant nursery. So "galvanized". When I consider the environment, I don't see my work as poetry as separate or different, in fact, it has always reminded me what I am supposed to do. But it's not a prescription for everyone, how they should be a poet. Hanging upside down from the mast of a tuna boat or dressing up like the planet earth and standing on a street corner yelling rape, while various people dressed like oil company executives prod you with drills, is a perfectly valid public demonstration-- art, way to communicate, theater, agit-prop, whatever it takes to continue to communicate THE ISSUE, bumper stickers, it's all needed. Some do things better than others and none of it is easy. But working with the government, knowing the way government runs, developing the ability to work through the system, and sparking motivation in oneself to run for office, this isn't something to leave up to someone else all the time. It's essential people/poets do that too. And that poets know how to speak to politicians, how the machine works on a daily basis. How the law works. It's all got to be done. Poets are great at LANGUAGE, and more than half the battle is mastering the vocabulary, language of the government, institution, opposition, or science that is in question. It's poetry as far as I understand it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: "Michael Rothenberg" ; Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 2:41 PM Subject: Re: parks again > Michael rothenburg, > > You're an old hand at this linkage of poetry/parks, then. I'm a relative > newcomer. Very interested in this new field of Environmental Aesthetics, but > also in all the swirl of thought around public policy and parks/recreation. > Your note on your own activism provides a clear lineage that I think a lot of > younger people would like to know about. I have a friend who was like a > Greenpeace 007 -- he'd climb up on battleships in Portland (they would come up > the Columbia) and he'd climb up on them with webbed feet and drape a big banner > across them in the middle of the night saying Nuke Free, or something, but I > feel that this sort of thing irritates (as fun as it must have been) but doesn't > really accomplish anything concrete. Walking a bill through legislation, and > getting to know the big wheels and how they turn is much more concretely useful > in the long term. Can you say what role poetry has had in this for you? Is it > a kind of galvanizing effect? You have to be careful not to veer into > agit-prop, I imagine? > > -- Kirby Olson > > Michael Rothenberg wrote: > > > Kirby, > > > > I don't know Caro's biography of Robert Moses, but I will check it out for > > sure. > > > > I couldn't post to the whole group because I had exceeded my limit of > > postings for the day but did want to communicate to you about Burton. I have > > listed a few resources below that tell more than I could ever recount about > > Philip Burton. My experience was working with him on the acquisition of > > Sweeney Ridge Park, a part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. He > > pushed this forward when James Watt was reigning over the Interior > > Department. Burton was a master at getting what he wanted. Check out the > > resources below. > > > > Yes, I have been doing this kind of activist environmental work for about > > 25 years. I still have a tropical plant nursery in the National Park and the > > nursery, Shelldance, has become a landmark there, a trailhead for people > > hiking up Sweeney Ridge, a place where environmentalists tend to gather, and > > plant lovers can see things they may not have ever seen before. > > > > My own involvement in politics led me to a brief stint on the Pacifica > > Planning Commission, a couple of years board of director membership of the > > Pacifica Land Trust, and ten years of presidency of an educational advocacy > > group called Pacifican's for Mori Point (heading out a prolonged battle > > with help of botanists, ornithogists, historians, tree huggers, > > herpetologists and more, to stop developers from developing a 200 million > > dollar conference center, 35 deluxe homes, 7 restaurants on a pristine > > coastal bluff inhabited by endangered San Francisco Garter Snakes. We > > finally succeeded in saving Mori Point, and getting it into he Golden Gate > > National Recreation Area. This is the kind of thing Burton loved/ Although > > he passed away before Mori Point was saved, his spirit was in the battle. > > Burton liked to see the local environmentalist put together a band of > > compadres, educate themselves, and then make an appeal to him, by this time > > the developers were exhausted and they were looking for solutions. He would > > do what he could, especially if it fit into his grand scheme of the GGNRA,to > > take it to congress, get the money to purchase the land, get it included as > > a rider on any kind of bill going through congress that he could attach it > > to. > > > > Environmental work continues to be a key part of my life. It was Burton and > > some of his working companions who mentored me. I was already stuck on > > ecology, grown up in Miami, weekending in the Everglades every chance I > > could get from the time I was 12 until I went off to college. I had read > > Meat Science Essays, the "beat sensitivities" about ecology were all part of > > my education. But the idea of "activism", that you could make something > > happen, form a grassroots base, take over the city government, and carry > > legislation all the way to the White House, well that idea was unbelievable. > > I never imagined anything like that was possible. Burton pointed the way. > > > > A great moment for me was to be standing on Mori Point, during the > > dedication to the park, and being asked to read a poem I wrote, TAKE, about > > saving the headland and endangered species, and the conflict I felt about > > who this all belonged to REALLY. That was all of me as one thing, an organic > > moment, right there on the ocean being poet/activist/naturalist, all those > > nonsense categories, more like being HUMAN. > > > > I am still working on devoloping Shelldance as an interpretive center for > > ecology on the Northern California Coast, with help from the GGNRA. We offer > > free tours to kids, seniors, etc., and have cultural events at the nursery. > > I keep trying to explain to my neighbors that art is nature is culture is > > dance is music is religion, etc., This past year I gave the GGNRA an oral > > history of the GGNRA in San Mateo County (home of Shelldance, Mori Point, > > Sweeney Ridge, San Pedro Mountain, Milagra Ridge) but have not yet received > > the print-out of the presentation. If you want to know more I can let you > > know when it materializes in print. But I am sure I have gone on enough > > already ABOUT ME and wore you out with my stuff. Your interest is in Burton > > so you might want to check out these resources I have listed. If I can help > > you with additional resources let me know. > > > > Biography of Philip Burton > > > > For the politicians in the crowd, there's "A Rage for Justice: The Passion > > and Politics of Philip Burton" (University of California, 1995) by John > > Jacobs. This biography of Congressman Philip Burton by political journalist > > Jacobs, a Davis resident, sheds light on how a liberal Congressman pushed > > through the bills dearest to his heart. > > > > The New Urban Park > > http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/rotnew.html > > > > statue of Philip Burton > > http://www.moonrise.ws/Pictures/City/PhilipBurtonClose/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kirby Olson" > > To: "Michael Rothenberg" > > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:12 PM > > Subject: Re: parks again > > > > > Michael, Are you the poet who was mentioned a month or so back as working > > hard > > > for the parks in SF area? > > > > > > I am trying to put together a list. I find this area extremely attractive > > for > > > scholarship. > > > > > > I am primarily a critic. I do write poems, but prefer to work on > > criticism. > > > It's just a lot more interesting for me to write it, for reasons that > > probably > > > have to do with the ability to write it better than I write poems. > > > > > > At any rate, I hadn't heard of Philip Burton. In NYC, Robert Moses was an > > > enormous cad -- he began with high principles but slowly became a > > power-head and > > > wanted to pave his way through Greenwich Village and build bridges that > > would > > > block views. Only Roosevelt was able to stop him until the 1960s. He had > > > drafted bills that allowed him to take over whole commissions > > single-handedly, > > > and he smashed neighborhoods -- especially if they were inhabited by > > > minorities. He killed a Norwegian neighborhood purely for the fun of it, > > > ramming a highway throught heir Brooklyn neighborhood. > > > > > > Have you read Caro's biography of Robert Moses? It will fill you with > > facts, > > > but it has an intensity like a great Shakespearean tragedy. It amazes me. > > I'm > > > only on p. 700 of 1100 pages, though. If this is your area, you just have > > to > > > read this if you haven't already. It gives you a blow by blow account of > > how > > > city government works in regard to parks, etc., over the entirety of the > > 20th > > > century. > > > > > > By the way, you posted only to me, so I posted only to you. Maybe you > > could > > > give a longer description of what Burton did for the delectation of the > > wider > > > readership? > > > > > > Yours, > > > > > > Kirby Olson > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:36:33 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Michael Rothenberg, Ok, well this is quite different from how I thought of art growing up. For Lutherans, art is a matter of adiaphora, according to Luther. That is, while Calvinists think that bad art can cost you your soul, or with Catholics that it is a good work, with Lutherans it's just something that doesn't really matter. Luther didn't ban images in the church, as Calvin did, or as Muslims have done (and I think Jews, too, if they follow the letter of the Old Testament restrictions). Luther said it was a matter of the Christian's freedom. He never banned porn (he apparently liked it), and so you get this kind of iconographic freedom in the northern Scandinavian Lutheran countries like Sweden and Denmark as part of a long legacy. The other side of this is that Lutherans don't take art very seriously. It doesn't have the high seriousness that you get in a lot of other traditions. This idea that art takes in everything and is a kind of activism -- would this be a Marxist approach to art? I wouldn't call Gary Snyder a Marxist -- he's a Buddhist. Do Buddhists have a serious approach to icons? What room is there for free play? You mentioned that art ought to be about issues, or that however it approaches an issue, is ok. Can art be lazy, blind, ridiculous, ambivalent, and still be art in your book? I guess you think it can, because you said that your own viewpoint doesn't preclude others. Can you give me an example of a poem that you think was effective in a public policy debate regarding parks, and how you think it influenced public policy? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:08:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Interesting posts from Kirby, and from Michael Rothenberg, too, who frames "poet" as much more than a mere wordsmith and whose "work" includes the non"literary." Kirby writes this about Greenpeace below and I feel compelled to "share" personal anecdote "I have a friend who was like a Greenpeace 007 -- he'd climb up on battleships in Portland (they would come up the Columbia) and he'd climb up on them with webbed feet and drape a big banner across them in the middle of the night saying Nuke Free, or something, but I feel that this sort of thing irritates (as fun as it must have been) but doesn't really accomplish anything concrete." Well, I have certainly adored Greenpeace most of my adult, conscious life. And participated in anti-nuke among other movements in the early eighties -- organized one of Sonomore Atomics "action groups" for civil disobedience preparation and other activities with lover then, Eve Mezey, daughter of "straight" poet Robert Mezey, who was not so "straight," really, obviously; blockaded Livermore Labs; and went to jail (two weeks) same fellow blockader Daniel Ellsberg in mass action that got a couple thousand or so of us arrested, then "jailed"/housed in huge outdoor tent facility because the county didn't have room. Today (over 20 years later), have several thousand invested in a nuke energy plant in the UK. Still love Greenpeace but believe they may be wrong about nuke energy (though surely not wrong about nuke weapons), which burns clean and now, after all our carbon combustion polluting, may be necessary for reducing carbon emissions and preserving "the Ozone." Am I sure about my "investment" in the nuke plant? No, of course not. Oh, France and Japan have been using nuke energy for decades, and there is some news of late that a new development will enable getting rid of the spent fuel and rendering it harmless, so maybe it's not "so bad," after all, but YES, this is a difficult "contradiction" or "ambiguity" to "tolerate," and of course I loathe the idea of "rationalizing it." Do I know for sure my "financial" investment is not a danger to others in this case? No. Yeah. Yes, and No. I don't know. I kinda know. I kinda know enough, certainly, to understand my personal choice. This note, then, because what I'd really like to be is a Peace 007 and sabotage the militarists, yet I may have to call the Greenpeacers on issues they may not "get" (while all along it may be me that doesn't get it), and none of this is easy. Am reading/re-reading Kierkegarrd, who sets the bar even higher, though he was the son of a well-to-do father and got opportunities to study under Hegel (alongside Engels, in fact), and how does one trust forever these innumerable geniuses who come from priviledge, even if they reject it. Blah blah blah, Joe Sickness Until Bush is Was :) Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:19:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: email for . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit looking for current email addresses for (pls backchannel): Pamela Lu Heriberto Yepez thanks, Tenney mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:24:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Kirby, I find your response pleasantly funny. Of course , I insist that my viewpoint does not preclude others. How would our friends and enemies know the difference between us if we were all wearing the same cloth? the same poetic suit? and stuff... I don't know about Jews and the strict letter of the law. I know that there's an awful lot of imagery in kabbalah. And regards the depiction of the deity, that might be The Psalms, but I don't think you were talking about those poems. I also know that Jews never agree on anything, so the story goes, either that or they are all looking for a partner. If I'm coming out of that tradition, lots of images, psalms, diversity of opinion, and a desperate search for union, that sounds okay to me. Just as long as we TRY to get along, as we stumble along. "Can art be lazy, blind, ridiculous, ambivalent, and still be art in your book?". You answered that question for me, and just as I would answer it. Funny, my first take was that you were describing Philip Whalen, one of my heroes. But that's only one way of looking at him. He was an incredibly hard worker but some people thought he was lazy, he was blind, not entirely, but nobody seemed to understand he had trouble seeing, ambivalent? well, there was this problem he had about not wanting to be bothered and at the same time not wanting to be left alone, and art, he was all art, a work of art. He was criticized by many for not having been socially active, agit-prop or propagandist enough. He wrote a poem, ON WHICH I RENOUNCE THE NOTION OF SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY: "If nothing else we must submit ourselves To the charitable impulses of our friends Give them a crack at being bodhisattvas (although their benevolence is a heavy weight on my head their good intentions an act of agression)' I think Philip was just having a bad day. He was an idealist in many ways, and if you go through his poetry you find tons of places where he attacks the government, social, economic, and political systems, opposes war, killing and the cruel and senseless destruction of nature. And the way I see it, while he and his work may not have been a marching demonstation, he was certainly very much actively alive, actively dying, and a convincing demonstration of language as a great big moving heart and mind towards concern in many worlds and universes at once. . The boddhisatva does try to help others on the way out of the wheel. And there's what is called "engaged buddhism", which is not necessarily Marxist. Naropa Institute offers an MA in Engaged Buddhism! Poems that are "effective in a public policy debate regarding parks", well, that's probably more difficult to get a hold of, to find. In my own experience there was a poem I mentioned already, TAKE. I read it at a council meeting in Pacifica, while we were debating the fate of Mori Point. It appears in ecopoetics issue no. 2 and is on the net, http://www.terrain.org/poetry/7/rothenberg.htm, I think it was "effective", it didn't necessarily shape policy, but it made people a little bit more aware and maybe motivated, like a gospel song, to reach a little further "in the storehouse of love, eternal love" for what they believe in. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:36 PM Subject: Re: parks again > Hi Michael Rothenberg, > > Ok, well this is quite different from how I thought of art growing up. For > Lutherans, art is a matter of adiaphora, according to Luther. That is, while > Calvinists think that bad art can cost you your soul, or with Catholics that it > is a good work, with Lutherans it's just something that doesn't really matter. > Luther didn't ban images in the church, as Calvin did, or as Muslims have done > (and I think Jews, too, if they follow the letter of the Old Testament > restrictions). Luther said it was a matter of the Christian's freedom. He > never banned porn (he apparently liked it), and so you get this kind of > iconographic freedom in the northern Scandinavian Lutheran countries like Sweden > and Denmark as part of a long legacy. > > The other side of this is that Lutherans don't take art very seriously. It > doesn't have the high seriousness that you get in a lot of other traditions. > > This idea that art takes in everything and is a kind of activism -- would this > be a Marxist approach to art? I wouldn't call Gary Snyder a Marxist -- he's a > Buddhist. Do Buddhists have a serious approach to icons? What room is there > for free play? You mentioned that art ought to be about issues, or that however > it approaches an issue, is ok. Can art be lazy, blind, ridiculous, ambivalent, > and still be art in your book? > > I guess you think it can, because you said that your own viewpoint doesn't > preclude others. Can you give me an example of a poem that you think was > effective in a public policy debate regarding parks, and how you think it > influenced public policy? > > -- Kirby Olson > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:36:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Readings @ City Museum, 2003-04 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Friends, near & Far, I am hosting readings at the City Museum in St. Louis on Saturdays throughout the fall & spring. Please consider attending -- Aug 9, 2003 - David Hess & Gabriel Gudding Sept 6 - Nathan Parker & Joshua Edwards Oct 4 - David Wright & Scott Cairns Nov 8 - Jarek Steele & kari edwards Dec 13 - Shane Seely, Anthony Robinson, & Arielle Greenberg Jan 10, 2004 - Dale Smith & Kent Johnson Feb 7 - Kerri Sonnenberg & Joel Felix Mar 6 - Tsipi Keller & Jane Delynn Apr 3 - Mary Jo Bang & Susan Schultz May 1 - Kristy Odelius, William Allegrezza, Garin Cycholl, & Chris Glomski For more information, see the complete series bulletin at http://www.belz.net/citymuseumseries/bulletin.htm If you'd like to submit a reading proposal for the 04/05 schedule, contact me at Aaron@belz.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:05:29 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Michael and Steve -- great ambivalent responses! Just wanted to clear up the Jewish injunction against the image. It's in the first commandment given to Moses: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 29 For a long time I wondered if Language poetry wasn't a poetry that was in response to this, as at least some of the practitioners are Jewish, even if lapsed. Charles Bernstein is Jewish (this is why he says he hates Pound somewhere) and Susan Gervitz is Jewish (I went to Evergreen State College with her), but I doubt if the group is exclusively Jewish. And perhaps not against images per se? Luther rewrote the ten commandments after Christ and says that this one cited above was bogus and didn't matter any longer (one of his closest friend was Albrecht Durer, the painter). Most people think it is just graven images that are outlawed. But if you look at the second, third, and fourth clauses, it actually outlaws competing with God's creation through the making of ANY likeness whatsoever. Luther said it no longer mattered. He was also against the iconoclasts, who went around smashing religious images during the Reformation. He told his crowd to cut it out. Calvin outlawed RELIGIOUS IMAGES, following this first commandment ot the letter, and the Baptists do too. Almost every denomination takes a different stand on it. Baptists won't allow any images in their churches. Presbyterians have lightened up a bit or we wouldn't have Marianne Moore's poetry, but I'm not sure which Presbyterian theologian(s) rewrote that commandment or how. I just love doctrine regarding images. I don't think Marx anywhere said for instance that images had to correspond to a political code. This was codified under Stalin by his goofy general Zhdanov. Interestingly, this set policy in the Soviet Union for about sixty years. It's a short and brilliant article which mostly seems to outlaw humor. Social Realism is somewhere int he title of the essay. It's brilliant because it's so clear. Even people like Lukacs had to work with it, or go to jail. But the funny part is that I think that Marx meant art to be adiaphora -- I don't think he wanted to strait-jacket it, but just to monitor it. I don't think he thought it would help the revolution at all. He loved Shakespeare and knew many of the plays by heart. But somehow the Eastern Orthodox (Stalin was originally studying for the ministry) got hold of Marxism, and well, the rest is history. The Eastern Orthodox are really serious about the control of images, but I have never had time to dig up the history of their theology on iconomachy. -- Kirby > I don't know about Jews and the strict letter of the law. I know that > there's an awful lot of imagery in kabbalah. If anybody knows a rabbi, ask them about whether the first commandment in Exodus still holds. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:05:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have to stand with Jesse on this. Although I admire what Joel is attempting I am not so fond of poetry as the panacea of problems, especially English haiku. Tonka seems to be the best Japanese structure for the English language rhythms of speech. Even though I like Kerouac's haiku, and others I have come across -- I still haven't found anyone to write them with the same passion as Basho. There is a wound philosophy that goes beyond the mere counting of syllables -- as does Shakespeare with his iams. Here is a neat website of international haiku http://hem.passagen.se/magnus.wallberg/haiku_eng.html Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic > I happen to be working on a book of haiku with Jungian psychiatrist David H. > Rosen, the working title for which is "The Healing Spirit of Haiku." It will > be illustrated by Arthur Okamura. > However, what I'd like to recommend are haiku by Jack Kerouac. There's a > collection out, and some of his haiku are splendid. > > -Joel W. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Grumman" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:50 AM > Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic > > > > --- jesse glass wrote: > > > Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English > > > language haiku movement and the other folks you > > > mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. > > > etc. > > > > > > I have a request: If you know of a good or great > > > English haiku, please post it and tell us why you > > > find that it works well as an English language poem. > > > > > No translations please! Jesse > > > > I haven't seen the post this one is responding to, but > > had to jump in. > > > > There are zillions of great English haiku but the only > > one I can think of offhand because it's only one word > > is Cor Van den Heuvel's "tundra"--in the middle of an > > otherwise blank page. Two images, tundra and blank > > page, working off each other. Even a season word. > > Great because unexpected (when composed)--and, > > needless to say, succinct. And dealing with large > > things: silence, emptiness, nothingness . . . > > > > Here are two by Robert Spiess, picked almost at random > > for THE HAIKU ANTHOLOGY: > > > > A light river wind; > > on the crannied cliff > > hang harebell and fern > > > > Muttering thunder . . . > > the bottom of the river > > scattered with clams > > > > Both, to start with, are pretty pictures, which I > > consider a big plus for any poem. The first seems > > superior to me for comparing in a subtle way the > > effect of the light wind on the delicate harebell and > > fern with the long-term crannying effect of the river; > > two kinds of rivers. . . . And the wind on top of the > > river as the harebell and fern are on the surface of > > the cliff. And the near permanence of the cliff > > versus the transience of the wind, and river versus > > plants. Something of the precariousness of not only > > life (the harebell and fern just hanging) but of > > existence (the cliff crannying away). The different > > weights of the two movements of wind and river. > > > > In the second we also get two contrasted/harmonized > > images. The main magic for me inheres in the serenity > > of the clams. But I also like their being muffled, so > > to speak, in water, as the thunder is in the distance. > > Note, too, the spring to full-dimensionality of the > > poem from river-bottom to distant sky, and the sizes > > of the activities going on in both. And the > > transcience of the one versus to durability of the > > second (life, this time, not seeming precarious, but > > unstoppable). > > > > --Bob G. > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:35:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms In-Reply-To: <3F25B5D4.5A507EA9@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Of course I did not mean to imply that writers shouldn't attempt forms within other cultural traditions, only that there is a certain amount of violence inherent in the act of lifting a form out of its context or language. Heightened I guess when it is a Western writer lifting a form from a colony. The various literary forms (including, I guess, prose forms) developed and were shaped by historical and political forces as much as linguistic forces. Certainly the haiku form (to my knowledge) developed after and partially as a reaction to the tanka form--in its turn haiku spawned other hybrid forms (haiga, haibun, etc--others know more: this is really not my area of expertise); As postmodern practitioners we *do* have this gift of being able to dip into all the pots. It may or may not behoove the poet to immerse himself in sensibility before attempting the poem. Kerouac's haiku *are* haiku aren't they? And not just little clipped poems? It may be part of the probably to approach this stuff "formally" and not from context of "content" (I might be doubling back here): you would think of the "characteristics" that inform haiku poetry: austerity, concision, etc etc (I remember reading these: there are seven of them...does anyone know?) as a better starting point to teach the form rather than 5-7-5 that I learned in grade school. That exercise has its purposes too I believe. Is anyone on this list a teaching writer who uses haiku as part of lessons with schoolkids? I would be interested in hearing about that. I don't know if there is "purity" or "authenticity" anymore or just "alterity" but certainly that makes our work as cross-cultural workers more--not less--problematic and problematized. We should add and change existing poetic forms and develop our own, but this work is profoundly profoundly political. Mongrelism or Mongrelisme? What does it mean honestly to write the ghazal in English? Shahid Ali's work is an excellent example: how he (especially in "Country Without a Post Office" and "Nostalgist") was able to capture the real *Urdu* poetic spirit in the English language: it's really breathtaking. But this is from a lifetime of living in both languages. We are in a different kind of world after all, as Kirby says "No more separate cultures" That's ominous to me. Not because of what it represents but how and why it came to be. The HSBC billboard at Broadway and Houston showing the woman sitting in a yoga position blissed out because she now has free checking. When we work we work through that too. I certainly do not mean to say that we ought not look to other cultures for inspiration, guidance, and help. Imagine the loss to our poetry had the haiku form never been introduced to writers of English! The introduction of the ghazal and (my fervent hope!) Arabic prose and mixed-genre forms will do as much good for it. But it's *why* we look over there for inspiration, and *how* that is so important. ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:51:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic In-Reply-To: <002001c3561d$8a86db80$605e3318@LINKAGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Great poets are few in any culture and any form. Do you actually think that something inherent in a brief associative form engendered Basho? I'd like to see the mechanism. That said, I don't personally have a lot of use for prescriptive forms of any origin. Mark At 06:05 PM 7/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I have to stand with Jesse on this. Although I admire what Joel is >attempting I am not so fond of poetry as the panacea of problems, especially >English haiku. Tonka seems to be the best Japanese structure for the English >language rhythms of speech. Even though I like Kerouac's haiku, and others I >have come across -- I still haven't found anyone to write them with the same >passion as Basho. There is a wound philosophy that goes beyond the mere >counting of syllables -- as does Shakespeare with his iams. > >Here is a neat website of international haiku >http://hem.passagen.se/magnus.wallberg/haiku_eng.html > >Best, Geoffrey > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joel Weishaus" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:21 PM >Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic > > > > I happen to be working on a book of haiku with Jungian psychiatrist David >H. > > Rosen, the working title for which is "The Healing Spirit of Haiku." It >will > > be illustrated by Arthur Okamura. > > However, what I'd like to recommend are haiku by Jack Kerouac. There's a > > collection out, and some of his haiku are splendid. > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Grumman" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:50 AM > > Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic > > > > > > > --- jesse glass wrote: > > > > Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English > > > > language haiku movement and the other folks you > > > > mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > I have a request: If you know of a good or great > > > > English haiku, please post it and tell us why you > > > > find that it works well as an English language poem. > > > > > > > No translations please! Jesse > > > > > > I haven't seen the post this one is responding to, but > > > had to jump in. > > > > > > There are zillions of great English haiku but the only > > > one I can think of offhand because it's only one word > > > is Cor Van den Heuvel's "tundra"--in the middle of an > > > otherwise blank page. Two images, tundra and blank > > > page, working off each other. Even a season word. > > > Great because unexpected (when composed)--and, > > > needless to say, succinct. And dealing with large > > > things: silence, emptiness, nothingness . . . > > > > > > Here are two by Robert Spiess, picked almost at random > > > for THE HAIKU ANTHOLOGY: > > > > > > A light river wind; > > > on the crannied cliff > > > hang harebell and fern > > > > > > Muttering thunder . . . > > > the bottom of the river > > > scattered with clams > > > > > > Both, to start with, are pretty pictures, which I > > > consider a big plus for any poem. The first seems > > > superior to me for comparing in a subtle way the > > > effect of the light wind on the delicate harebell and > > > fern with the long-term crannying effect of the river; > > > two kinds of rivers. . . . And the wind on top of the > > > river as the harebell and fern are on the surface of > > > the cliff. And the near permanence of the cliff > > > versus the transience of the wind, and river versus > > > plants. Something of the precariousness of not only > > > life (the harebell and fern just hanging) but of > > > existence (the cliff crannying away). The different > > > weights of the two movements of wind and river. > > > > > > In the second we also get two contrasted/harmonized > > > images. The main magic for me inheres in the serenity > > > of the clams. But I also like their being muffled, so > > > to speak, in water, as the thunder is in the distance. > > > Note, too, the spring to full-dimensionality of the > > > poem from river-bottom to distant sky, and the sizes > > > of the activities going on in both. And the > > > transcience of the one versus to durability of the > > > second (life, this time, not seeming precarious, but > > > unstoppable). > > > > > > --Bob G. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:35:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Re: Hungarian poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gabor Gyukics and Michael Castro, the editors and translators of = 'Swimming in the Ground,' an anthology of contemporary Hungarian poetry, = are looking for a venue in Chicago to present a talk about the current = state of Hungarian poetics and then a reading from the anthology. Please = read the review at the link below to learn a bit more about this = interesting book. http://www.jacketmagazine.com/18/sawy-hun.html Gyukics and Castro's original plans are not working and they would like = to visit Chicago in November. Any help from the list on possible venues = with contact information would be much appreciated.=20 Larry Sawyer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:44:47 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Free Space Comix Updates (p.s. Circulars lives still...) Comments: To: bks cuny MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CIRCULARS is still alive: http://www.arras.net/circulars/ New on FREE SPACE COMIX (mostly just a bunch of loudmouthing, cool links, and some lively comments -- see below). The stories listed below are in reverse order -- the earliest story is the lowest on this list: http://www.arras.net/weblog/ links: DARPA: Information Awareness Office open letters: Email to the New York Review of Books re: Comics for Grown-Ups "I should have been suspicious from the start -- I don't think Genesis or Yes or King Crimson based a concept album on the interactions of a village of impoverished Mexicans, as the Brothers Hernandez did in Love & Rockets, and a critic who cites The World According to Garp as some sort of literary milestone while in the throes of disparaging an entire culture for being "junk art for adolescents" has certainly lost site long ago of what it means to be a popular, sophisticated -- not to mention culturally specific -- artist." detournements: RE: THE_OPERATION exchanges: Exchange on Circulars: final version "Darren Wershler-Henry: Even when the current search technologies adapt to spider the extra text that blogging has created, the problem of anemic content isn’t going to go away unless we start doing more collective writing online. The problem is partly a need for education; most writers are still in the process of learning how to use the web to best advantage." links: The dullest blog in the world links: Combo: new issue and website links: I love you galleries poems: Very Light and Sweet blogwatch: Silliman Commentaries Acrobat File links: Quids online blogwatch: Peacitude "My point was to argue (grouchily but hoping to make a serious mark) with a set of terms being tossed about on Silliman's Blog (which I view as an effective act of criticism) -- "school of quietude" versus an unnamed something else, the idea of a "third way" as a "death wish", the continued relevance of a battle against the British (except Raworth, of course) and their "dead" meters, the use of an ascertainment of "lineage" as a stand-in for "deep reading," etc. I think of these as strategies of "Balkanization" that are not useful, are blind politics, and seem terribly dated." chatter: The Secret Life of Terminals links: Screeds R Us blogwatch: Getting Ready to Have Been Skunked "I guess my central question is, in these quick notes: which poem is more focused in its "negativity," more attuned to the properties of language, more aware that time, indeed, is precious, and that reading (not to mention writing) should not be a matter of indifference but rather a point-by-point handling of the opportunities and issues it throws up?" poems: They're Putting a New Door In blogwatch: Avocados in the Andes (with a side of panache) blogwatch: Further Notes from Underground links: 3 Flash Digi-Po pieces by 100luziano testi paul blogwatch: More CPR for Silliman and Lowell "I think it's a sign of the even-handedness of "madman" Lowell's approach that he includes this anecdote about Yvor Winters, and it seems to me that Lowell, if anything, hopes only to make this "war" tenable as something of cultural value, were that possible, than to win it!" blogwatch: Bells & Whistles reviews: Ted Berrigan: Selected Poems blogwatch: The "Third Way", etc. "I don't think any Language poet with the exception of Bruce Andrews (and maybe Bernstein and Watten) has taken the project of the evisceration of national social (or linguistic) mores to the same extremes thant the great French tradition (or anti-tradition) of Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Lautreamont, Jarry, the Situationists (Guyotat is often identified as one of them), etc. -- not to mention predecessors Rousseau or de Sade. Most Language writing looks quite polite and "healthy" in comparison, at least from this perspective -- the Protestant ethic of the good work done daily in order to "make it new" appears as a subprogram of much of this writing." links: Critical Arts Ensemble blogwatch: Silliman on Lowell "What is really happening is that there is an assumption that, because the “tradition” or “lineage” to Grenier is beginning to ally himself is occluded, then one could never in fact read his poetry – as if a reader of Grenier’s poetry in the “Bay State” had simply never seen Futurism or Cubism, never saw or read the poetry of Rimbaud, Marinetti or Williams, never read Woolf, Faulkner or Joyce, never heard of Stravinsky or John Cage, etc. (This lineage issue – nothing is more important than protecting the lineage to RS, and nothing more nefarious to BKS -- reappears below.)" carnival: The Four Horsemen links: InterActivist Info Exchange reviews: Rod Smith, Music or Honesty exchanges: Exchange on Circulars 6 reviews: Little Review: Kenneth Goldsmith, Day "But, in fact, Goldmsith is on to something deeper than mere pop bravado, as Day shows that a reader's interests are fed by only a fraction of the available information out there, but one needs this exclusivity, this personal-editing, to gird identity. For a tennis fan, there is a unique pleasure in reading about Andre Agassi's 3rd round loss to Arnauld Clement in the 2000 French Open, just riding the wave of his big comeback, showing he's human and also not yet married to Steffi Graf (a little beyond human) -- and that this "day" occurred before 9/11 adds to the pathos." enthusiasms: Werner Herzog's Stroszek RECENT COMMENTS ¶ re: Email to the New York Review of Books re: Comics for Grown-Ups by ernesto on July 29, 2003 05:37 PM by kristine on July 29, 2003 01:28 PM by Mr. Arras on July 29, 2003 11:49 AM by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 11:45 AM by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 11:41 AM by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 11:39 AM ¶ re: DARPA: Information Awareness Office by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 04:54 PM ¶ re: Short poem by shi on July 27, 2003 09:09 AM by Gary Sullivan on June 18, 2003 01:26 PM ¶ re: Keston Sutherland responds to Carol Mirakove by postal code on July 26, 2003 01:12 AM by Paul Palmer on June 23, 2003 04:58 PM by carol mirakove on January 23, 2003 12:02 PM ¶ re: Quids online by p. backonja on July 22, 2003 12:58 PM ¶ re: Peacitude by jonathon wilcke on July 22, 2003 12:58 AM by Louis Cabri on July 20, 2003 02:01 AM by Tim Yu on July 19, 2003 01:31 AM by Louis Cabri on July 18, 2003 07:38 PM by Louis Cabri on July 18, 2003 07:25 PM by Tim Yu on July 17, 2003 05:31 PM by Mr. Arras on July 16, 2003 08:12 PM by Tim Yu on July 16, 2003 05:42 PM ¶ re: Hotel Gaudi on WTC site by Bob LaRue on July 21, 2003 05:24 PM by reuben on February 7, 2003 01:46 PM by Arthur Hooks on February 5, 2003 07:46 PM by marguerite lippert on January 30, 2003 02:21 PM by Kenji Matsumoto on January 23, 2003 09:45 PM by Jay on January 23, 2003 07:52 PM by Scott Wagstaff on January 23, 2003 03:18 PM by Michael Varley on January 23, 2003 12:48 PM by Corina Copp on January 23, 2003 10:54 AM by james oden on January 23, 2003 10:15 AM by fxcossio on January 23, 2003 05:35 AM by "not just imagining things" on January 9, 2003 11:50 AM by Gary Sullivan on January 8, 2003 01:26 PM ¶ re: William Knowles Spook Words by Reptilian on July 17, 2003 05:27 PM by Reptilian on July 17, 2003 05:22 PM by NSA they did it on July 17, 2003 05:16 PM ¶ re: Getting Ready to Have Been Skunked by Henry Gould on July 16, 2003 11:01 AM by Henry Gould on July 15, 2003 03:57 PM by p. backonja on July 14, 2003 10:43 PM by david rosenberg on July 14, 2003 02:41 PM by Kent Johnson on July 14, 2003 01:59 PM by Kent Johnson on July 14, 2003 01:55 PM by Mr. Arras on July 14, 2003 08:40 AM by Jack Kimball on July 13, 2003 04:42 PM by Mr. Arras on July 13, 2003 04:15 PM by david rosenberg on July 13, 2003 12:23 AM by Steve Tills on July 12, 2003 08:05 PM ¶ re: The Secret Life of Terminals by Gary Sullivan on July 16, 2003 10:34 AM ¶ re: Bells & Whistles by Jerrold Shiroma on July 16, 2003 04:38 AM by The English Channel on July 9, 2003 09:29 AM by Jerrold Shiroma on July 8, 2003 06:59 PM ¶ re: Fashionable Noise cover by zip codes on July 15, 2003 04:01 PM by travis ortiz on May 6, 2003 09:53 PM by cover letter on April 17, 2003 01:22 PM by travis ortiz on April 4, 2003 01:32 PM by Gary Sullivan on April 1, 2003 03:52 PM ¶ re: Quick Note to Kimball by Jack Kimball on July 14, 2003 12:01 PM ¶ re: Silliman on Lowell by Kimberly Lyons on July 14, 2003 01:18 AM by p. backonja on July 10, 2003 12:43 PM by Kent Johnson on July 10, 2003 12:29 PM by Ange on July 10, 2003 10:51 AM by Henry Gould on July 10, 2003 08:12 AM by Mark DuCharme on July 10, 2003 01:41 AM by Louis Cabri on July 9, 2003 10:59 PM by Mr. Arras on July 9, 2003 10:12 PM by Ange on July 9, 2003 09:48 PM by Mr. Arras on July 9, 2003 02:58 PM by Ben Friedlander on July 9, 2003 02:20 PM by Henry Gould on July 9, 2003 01:18 PM by Kent Johnson on July 9, 2003 12:15 PM by Nick LoLordo on July 7, 2003 03:18 PM by Robert Kelly on July 6, 2003 09:34 PM ¶ re: Ted Berrigan: Selected Poems by Louis Cabri on July 13, 2003 09:22 PM ¶ re: Avocados in the Andes (with a side of panache) by Kent Johnson on July 13, 2003 02:49 PM by Mr. Arras on July 12, 2003 07:32 PM by Jeffery Julich on July 12, 2003 05:33 PM by Louis Cabri on July 10, 2003 06:14 PM by Tim Yu on July 10, 2003 02:14 PM ¶ re: They're Putting a New Door In by Gary Sullivan on July 11, 2003 02:17 PM by Mr. Arras on July 11, 2003 12:50 PM by Gary Sullivan on July 11, 2003 09:14 AM by Stephen Vincent on July 10, 2003 07:35 PM ¶ re: More CPR for Silliman and Lowell by The Drunk Corpse on July 8, 2003 12:55 PM ¶ re: The "Third Way", etc. by J Kimball on July 6, 2003 10:44 PM by graywyvern on July 5, 2003 06:58 PM ¶ re: Werner Herzog's Stroszek by Mr. Arras on June 26, 2003 11:14 AM by kristine on June 26, 2003 09:36 AM by Mr. Arras on June 24, 2003 04:55 PM by kristine on June 24, 2003 04:45 PM by Mr. Arras on June 24, 2003 04:10 PM by kristine on June 24, 2003 03:57 PM ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:43:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By the time of Basho, haiku was already an old form, but one that was not taken as "serious art." His genius was that he made it so. I see the haiku as the practice of gathering in instead of spreading out the prose I've come to love. It's just another way or working, one that happens to feel right for certain engagements. I've seen little really good haiku in English. It's a much more demanding art than greets the eye. A good haiku makes the most of its few words with layers of cultural and etymological allusions. For those of you who are interested, Haruo Shirane's, "Traces of Dreams: Landscape, Cultural Memory, and the Poetry of Basho" (Stanford University Press, 1998) as a place to begin understanding this particular journey. -Joel W. > Great poets are few in any culture and any form. Do you actually think that > something inherent in a brief associative form engendered Basho? I'd like > to see the mechanism. > > That said, I don't personally have a lot of use for prescriptive forms of > any origin. > > > Mark > > At 06:05 PM 7/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >I have to stand with Jesse on this. Although I admire what Joel is > >attempting I am not so fond of poetry as the panacea of problems, especially > >English haiku. Tonka seems to be the best Japanese structure for the English > >language rhythms of speech. Even though I like Kerouac's haiku, and others I > >have come across -- I still haven't found anyone to write them with the same > >passion as Basho. There is a wound philosophy that goes beyond the mere > >counting of syllables -- as does Shakespeare with his iams. > > > >Here is a neat website of international haiku > >http://hem.passagen.se/magnus.wallberg/haiku_eng.html > > > >Best, Geoffrey > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joel Weishaus" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:21 PM > >Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic > > > > > > > I happen to be working on a book of haiku with Jungian psychiatrist David > >H. > > > Rosen, the working title for which is "The Healing Spirit of Haiku." It > >will > > > be illustrated by Arthur Okamura. > > > However, what I'd like to recommend are haiku by Jack Kerouac. There's a > > > collection out, and some of his haiku are splendid. > > > > > > -Joel W. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bob Grumman" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:50 AM > > > Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic > > > > > > > > > > --- jesse glass wrote: > > > > > Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English > > > > > language haiku movement and the other folks you > > > > > mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > I have a request: If you know of a good or great > > > > > English haiku, please post it and tell us why you > > > > > find that it works well as an English language poem. > > > > > > > > > No translations please! Jesse > > > > > > > > I haven't seen the post this one is responding to, but > > > > had to jump in. > > > > > > > > There are zillions of great English haiku but the only > > > > one I can think of offhand because it's only one word > > > > is Cor Van den Heuvel's "tundra"--in the middle of an > > > > otherwise blank page. Two images, tundra and blank > > > > page, working off each other. Even a season word. > > > > Great because unexpected (when composed)--and, > > > > needless to say, succinct. And dealing with large > > > > things: silence, emptiness, nothingness . . . > > > > > > > > Here are two by Robert Spiess, picked almost at random > > > > for THE HAIKU ANTHOLOGY: > > > > > > > > A light river wind; > > > > on the crannied cliff > > > > hang harebell and fern > > > > > > > > Muttering thunder . . . > > > > the bottom of the river > > > > scattered with clams > > > > > > > > Both, to start with, are pretty pictures, which I > > > > consider a big plus for any poem. The first seems > > > > superior to me for comparing in a subtle way the > > > > effect of the light wind on the delicate harebell and > > > > fern with the long-term crannying effect of the river; > > > > two kinds of rivers. . . . And the wind on top of the > > > > river as the harebell and fern are on the surface of > > > > the cliff. And the near permanence of the cliff > > > > versus the transience of the wind, and river versus > > > > plants. Something of the precariousness of not only > > > > life (the harebell and fern just hanging) but of > > > > existence (the cliff crannying away). The different > > > > weights of the two movements of wind and river. > > > > > > > > In the second we also get two contrasted/harmonized > > > > images. The main magic for me inheres in the serenity > > > > of the clams. But I also like their being muffled, so > > > > to speak, in water, as the thunder is in the distance. > > > > Note, too, the spring to full-dimensionality of the > > > > poem from river-bottom to distant sky, and the sizes > > > > of the activities going on in both. And the > > > > transcience of the one versus to durability of the > > > > second (life, this time, not seeming precarious, but > > > > unstoppable). > > > > > > > > --Bob G. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:43:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Rat-brained robot does distant art Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rat-brained robot does distant art "Gripping three coloured markers positioned above a white canvas, a robotic arm churns out drawings akin to that of a three-year-old.=A0 Its guidance comes from around 50,000 rat neurons in a petri dish 19,000 kilometres away." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3096973.stm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:54:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Jeff Clark From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Please post the following info to the Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Their Ambiguity, by Joshua Clover Pamphlet of text inside DVD case with full-color cover CD with two audio tracks: 1) multi-voiced reading of _Their Ambiguity_; 2) Terranova/Totality Remix Visit www.quemadura.net/ambiguity for product description and ordering information ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:10:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: Spencer Selby's List of Experimental Poetry/Art Magazines has moved... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Spencer Selby requested that I post this note to the list: Spencer Selby's List of Experimental Poetry/Art Magazines has moved. The new URL is: { http://selby32.home.comcast.net/ } List number 117 is up at that location now. Spencer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:14:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: Back on the Blog Again: Chris Murray's Texfiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Just returned from a fantastic trip to San Diego and San Francisco, visiting poets and reading lots of poetry, so have plenty to blog. A few items new and from the trip: --Foucault & Big Bird: what is it with this panopticon stuff? --Back in Texas & reporting on the trip: on Sunday's Reading at 21 Grand and the Excellent: Chris Stroffolino's Continuous Peasant. --Fine folks and Photos by Chris Sullivan at Cool Beans Coffee Shop in SFO --Readings in Spicer, interspersed response on the plane back to Tex --2 new Tornado Alley poems (Jul 29 & 22) --Rachel Owens: a poem wondrously crowded as a bus ride through mid-Calif. --Charles Olson's Maximus: sea lions and the eco-anima ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:16:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Berkson Subject: Antin Talk MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT David Antin Keynote Lecture Art Writing Conference Friday, August 15, 7:30 p.m. San Francisco Art Institute Lecture Hall 800 Chestnut Street SF ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:17:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: the oops link to Chris Murray's Texfiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yikes! Link was left out of that last post. Here it is: http://www.texfiles.blogspot.com enjoy! Chris Murray ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:32:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Free Space Comix Updates (p.s. Circulars lives still...) Comments: To: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Heah, good to see the reassertion de Circulars - thought the exchange - on which I commented - was a piece of 'obituary worship' - well, there's a concept much practiced (e.g. Hope, Bob). Thanks for putting up the Pentagon Futures Sale Strategy. That one does - or almost out does any of the Gothix. But maybe this is the phase we are moving into - open faced Gov Gothix. One that started with cosmetic rehab - scare the shit out of anyone - facials on the Hussein boys dead. I can't even begin to imagine the next. It was nice to Sen Biden do a little S&M with Wolfolitz in Committee today. Wasn't it Biden who had to disappear fro= m public ambition because of a plagiarism charge behind one of his speeches back in the seventies or eighties? Now he gets to ring Wolf for lying to th= e American people. Dark comedies invade from the wings. Who set the fires in the FrenchsensualRiviera - the "Infidels" or the "Evangelicals"? =20 O California, bring on Shwartznogger, Issa etc. Real thugs or simulated one= s - eat your heart out B'driard. Out here in the land of theory thieves. Stephen V=20 on 7/29/03 5:44 PM, Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net] at bstefans@earthlink.net wrote: >=20 > CIRCULARS is still alive: >=20 > http://www.arras.net/circulars/ >=20 > New on FREE SPACE COMIX (mostly just a bunch of loudmouthing, cool links, > and some lively comments -- see below). The stories listed below are in > reverse order -- the earliest story is the lowest on this list: >=20 > http://www.arras.net/weblog/ >=20 > links: DARPA: Information Awareness Office >=20 > open letters: Email to the New York Review of Books re: Comics for Grown-= Ups >=20 > "I should have been suspicious from the start -- I don't think Genesis or > Yes or King Crimson based a concept album on the interactions of a villag= e > of impoverished Mexicans, as the Brothers Hernandez did in Love & Rockets= , > and a critic who cites The World According to Garp as some sort of litera= ry > milestone while in the throes of disparaging an entire culture for being > "junk art for adolescents" has certainly lost site long ago of what it me= ans > to be a popular, sophisticated -- not to mention culturally specific -- > artist." >=20 > detournements: RE: THE_OPERATION >=20 > exchanges: Exchange on Circulars: final version >=20 > "Darren Wershler-Henry: Even when the current search technologies adapt t= o > spider the extra text that blogging has created, the problem of anemic > content isn=92t going to go away unless we start doing more collective writ= ing > online. The problem is partly a need for education; most writers are stil= l > in the process of learning how to use the web to best advantage." >=20 > links: The dullest blog in the world >=20 > links: Combo: new issue and website >=20 > links: I love you galleries >=20 > poems: Very Light and Sweet >=20 > blogwatch: Silliman Commentaries Acrobat File >=20 > links: Quids online >=20 > blogwatch: Peacitude >=20 > "My point was to argue (grouchily but hoping to make a serious mark) with= a > set of terms being tossed about on Silliman's Blog (which I view as an > effective act of criticism) -- "school of quietude" versus an unnamed > something else, the idea of a "third way" as a "death wish", the continue= d > relevance of a battle against the British (except Raworth, of course) and > their "dead" meters, the use of an ascertainment of "lineage" as a stand-= in > for "deep reading," etc. I think of these as strategies of "Balkanization= " > that are not useful, are blind politics, and seem terribly dated." >=20 > chatter: The Secret Life of Terminals >=20 > links: Screeds R Us >=20 > blogwatch: Getting Ready to Have Been Skunked >=20 > "I guess my central question is, in these quick notes: which poem is more > focused in its "negativity," more attuned to the properties of language, > more aware that time, indeed, is precious, and that reading (not to menti= on > writing) should not be a matter of indifference but rather a point-by-poi= nt > handling of the opportunities and issues it throws up?" >=20 > poems: They're Putting a New Door In >=20 > blogwatch: Avocados in the Andes (with a side of panache) >=20 > blogwatch: Further Notes from Underground >=20 > links: 3 Flash Digi-Po pieces by 100luziano testi paul >=20 > blogwatch: More CPR for Silliman and Lowell >=20 > "I think it's a sign of the even-handedness of "madman" Lowell's approach > that he includes this anecdote about Yvor Winters, and it seems to me tha= t > Lowell, if anything, hopes only to make this "war" tenable as something o= f > cultural value, were that possible, than to win it!" >=20 > blogwatch: Bells & Whistles >=20 > reviews: Ted Berrigan: Selected Poems >=20 > blogwatch: The "Third Way", etc. >=20 > "I don't think any Language poet with the exception of Bruce Andrews (and > maybe Bernstein and Watten) has taken the project of the evisceration of > national social (or linguistic) mores to the same extremes thant the grea= t > French tradition (or anti-tradition) of Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Lautreamont, > Jarry, the Situationists (Guyotat is often identified as one of them), > etc. -- not to mention predecessors Rousseau or de Sade. Most Language > writing looks quite polite and "healthy" in comparison, at least from thi= s > perspective -- the Protestant ethic of the good work done daily in order = to > "make it new" appears as a subprogram of much of this writing." >=20 > links: Critical Arts Ensemble >=20 > blogwatch: Silliman on Lowell >=20 > "What is really happening is that there is an assumption that, because th= e > =93tradition=94 or =93lineage=94 to Grenier is beginning to ally himself is > occluded, then one could never in fact read his poetry =96 as if a reader o= f > Grenier=92s poetry in the =93Bay State=94 had simply never seen Futurism or > Cubism, never saw or read the poetry of Rimbaud, Marinetti or Williams, > never read Woolf, Faulkner or Joyce, never heard of Stravinsky or John Ca= ge, > etc. (This lineage issue =96 nothing is more important than protecting the > lineage to RS, and nothing more nefarious to BKS -- reappears below.)" >=20 > carnival: The Four Horsemen >=20 > links: InterActivist Info Exchange >=20 > reviews: Rod Smith, Music or Honesty >=20 > exchanges: Exchange on Circulars 6 >=20 > reviews: Little Review: Kenneth Goldsmith, Day >=20 > "But, in fact, Goldmsith is on to something deeper than mere pop bravado, > as Day shows that a reader's interests are fed by only a fraction of the > available information out there, but one needs this exclusivity, this > personal-editing, to gird identity. For a tennis fan, there is a unique > pleasure in reading about Andre Agassi's 3rd round loss to Arnauld Clemen= t > in the 2000 French Open, just riding the wave of his big comeback, showin= g > he's human and also not yet married to Steffi Graf (a little beyond > human) -- and that this "day" occurred before 9/11 adds to the pathos." >=20 > enthusiasms: Werner Herzog's Stroszek >=20 > RECENT COMMENTS >=20 > =B6 re: Email to the New York Review of Books re: Comics for Grown-Ups > by ernesto on July 29, 2003 05:37 PM by kristine on July 29, 2003 01:28 P= M > by Mr. Arras on July 29, 2003 11:49 AM by The English Channel on July 29, > 2003 11:45 AM by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 11:41 AM by The > English Channel on July 29, 2003 11:39 AM >=20 > =B6 re: DARPA: Information Awareness Office > by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 04:54 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Short poem > by shi on July 27, 2003 09:09 AM by Gary Sullivan on June 18, 2003 01:26 = PM >=20 > =B6 re: Keston Sutherland responds to Carol Mirakove > by postal code on July 26, 2003 01:12 AM by Paul Palmer on June 23, 2003 > 04:58 PM by carol mirakove on January 23, 2003 12:02 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Quids online > by p. backonja on July 22, 2003 12:58 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Peacitude > by jonathon wilcke on July 22, 2003 12:58 AM by Louis Cabri on July 20, 2= 003 > 02:01 AM by Tim Yu on July 19, 2003 01:31 AM by Louis Cabri on July 18, 2= 003 > 07:38 PM by Louis Cabri on July 18, 2003 07:25 PM by Tim Yu on July 17, 2= 003 > 05:31 PM by Mr. Arras on July 16, 2003 08:12 PM by Tim Yu on July 16, 200= 3 > 05:42 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Hotel Gaudi on WTC site > by Bob LaRue on July 21, 2003 05:24 PM by reuben on February 7, 2003 01:4= 6 > PM by Arthur Hooks on February 5, 2003 07:46 PM by marguerite lippert on > January 30, 2003 02:21 PM by Kenji Matsumoto on January 23, 2003 09:45 PM= by > Jay on January 23, 2003 07:52 PM by Scott Wagstaff on January 23, 2003 03= :18 > PM by Michael Varley on January 23, 2003 12:48 PM by Corina Copp on Janua= ry > 23, 2003 10:54 AM by james oden on January 23, 2003 10:15 AM by fxcossio = on > January 23, 2003 05:35 AM by "not just imagining things" on January 9, 20= 03 > 11:50 AM by Gary Sullivan on January 8, 2003 01:26 PM >=20 > =B6 re: William Knowles Spook Words > by Reptilian on July 17, 2003 05:27 PM by Reptilian on July 17, 2003 05:2= 2 > PM by NSA they did it on July 17, 2003 05:16 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Getting Ready to Have Been Skunked > by Henry Gould on July 16, 2003 11:01 AM by Henry Gould on July 15, 2003 > 03:57 PM by p. backonja on July 14, 2003 10:43 PM by david rosenberg on J= uly > 14, 2003 02:41 PM by Kent Johnson on July 14, 2003 01:59 PM by Kent Johns= on > on July 14, 2003 01:55 PM by Mr. Arras on July 14, 2003 08:40 AM by Jack > Kimball on July 13, 2003 04:42 PM by Mr. Arras on July 13, 2003 04:15 PM = by > david rosenberg on July 13, 2003 12:23 AM by Steve Tills on July 12, 2003 > 08:05 PM >=20 > =B6 re: The Secret Life of Terminals > by Gary Sullivan on July 16, 2003 10:34 AM >=20 > =B6 re: Bells & Whistles > by Jerrold Shiroma on July 16, 2003 04:38 AM by The English Channel on Ju= ly > 9, 2003 09:29 AM by Jerrold Shiroma on July 8, 2003 06:59 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Fashionable Noise cover > by zip codes on July 15, 2003 04:01 PM by travis ortiz on May 6, 2003 09:= 53 > PM by cover letter on April 17, 2003 01:22 PM by travis ortiz on April 4, > 2003 01:32 PM by Gary Sullivan on April 1, 2003 03:52 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Quick Note to Kimball > by Jack Kimball on July 14, 2003 12:01 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Silliman on Lowell > by Kimberly Lyons on July 14, 2003 01:18 AM by p. backonja on July 10, 20= 03 > 12:43 PM by Kent Johnson on July 10, 2003 12:29 PM by Ange on July 10, 20= 03 > 10:51 AM by Henry Gould on July 10, 2003 08:12 AM by Mark DuCharme on Jul= y > 10, 2003 01:41 AM by Louis Cabri on July 9, 2003 10:59 PM by Mr. Arras on > July 9, 2003 10:12 PM by Ange on July 9, 2003 09:48 PM by Mr. Arras on Ju= ly > 9, 2003 02:58 PM by Ben Friedlander on July 9, 2003 02:20 PM by Henry Gou= ld > on July 9, 2003 01:18 PM by Kent Johnson on July 9, 2003 12:15 PM by Nick > LoLordo on July 7, 2003 03:18 PM by Robert Kelly on July 6, 2003 09:34 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Ted Berrigan: Selected Poems > by Louis Cabri on July 13, 2003 09:22 PM >=20 > =B6 re: Avocados in the Andes (with a side of panache) > by Kent Johnson on July 13, 2003 02:49 PM by Mr. Arras on July 12, 2003 > 07:32 PM by Jeffery Julich on July 12, 2003 05:33 PM by Louis Cabri on Ju= ly > 10, 2003 06:14 PM by Tim Yu on July 10, 2003 02:14 PM >=20 > =B6 re: They're Putting a New Door In > by Gary Sullivan on July 11, 2003 02:17 PM by Mr. Arras on July 11, 2003 > 12:50 PM by Gary Sullivan on July 11, 2003 09:14 AM by Stephen Vincent on > July 10, 2003 07:35 PM >=20 > =B6 re: More CPR for Silliman and Lowell > by The Drunk Corpse on July 8, 2003 12:55 PM >=20 > =B6 re: The "Third Way", etc. > by J Kimball on July 6, 2003 10:44 PM by graywyvern on July 5, 2003 06:58= PM >=20 > =B6 re: Werner Herzog's Stroszek > by Mr. Arras on June 26, 2003 11:14 AM by kristine on June 26, 2003 09:36= AM > by Mr. Arras on June 24, 2003 04:55 PM by kristine on June 24, 2003 04:45= PM > by Mr. Arras on June 24, 2003 04:10 PM by kristine on June 24, 2003 03:57= PM >=20 > ____ >=20 > A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics > http://www.arras.net >=20 > Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! >=20 > "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shal= l > hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:50:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: NUMBERs collected from 1 day's mail: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NUMBERs collected from 1 day's mail: groups that tolerate sick members will have greater numbers; smaller than this number. Alpha males in chimp colonies may spread their January, via FedEx. Your FedEx tracking number is January, via FedEx. Your FedEx tracking number is The number of gay and bisexual men diagnosed with HIV, the virus that causes investors and in some cases, a number of listed companies. They are: entrepreneurs set up a large number of trust companies and urban credit and in some cases, a number of listed companies. They are: = private entrepreneurs set up a large number of trust companies = ears+[dothatglancetobswiththathightoldbeattachediticomesnumbershou] increase the number of scholars who are knowledgeable in both genomic functionality by section number, sector, and outcome...." your full name,address, Tel and Fax numbers to me via She continues: " So let us consider more realistic numbers. functionality by section number, sector, and outcome...." significant number were nettime readers? communities, it's true, but a large number of them, the majority, now have a government report, and the only thing missing is my saying "the number of poor have been reduced" or some other "Fox-ism", but no, the number of poor have increased here, because the number of zapatistas have increased, and one thing a number of years, and I'm also on the Program Committee this year. TPRC interested in policy. 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Am looking forward from hearing from you on telephone and waiting for your quick response, thank you and God bless. agree, if only science had the numbers. thus Starla Veer and Dirk Shed, with I will need your personal data and profile (Your Full name, residential address, Your telephone and fax number for easy communication so that I will forward it to the finance and Security firm to make your the associate foreign partner of my family. Whatever your decision is please call me immediately through my private telephone number: +34-636-115-559, Sat tel: +873-763-430-525 and Sat fax number: +873-763-430-526 or email:JOSEPHSAVIMBI@37.COM. You must maintain absolute confidentiality to ensure success. And remember I have no doubt about your capability and honesty in handling financial matters. Am looking forward from hearing from you on telephone and waiting for your quick response, thank you and God bless. The number of access points are expected to multiply, but more than one-third of Internet The number of access points are expected to multiply, but more than one-third of Internet households have not yet heard of the wireless broadband service. there are substantial numbers of people IN THE US GOVERNMENT issue with a number of the topics or the emphasis given to certain VAT number: Card number: get laid - the numbers don't lie! commitment and self-sacrificing efforts of a large number find this past week's articles interesting. In addition to posting a number of our own List number 117 is up at that location now. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:11:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kirby,=20 It's my techno-incompetence at fault here. I thought I had writ a word = for the world to read...funny that; turns out only one reader was in = line to catch the message. Perhaps that omen should speak volumes to = me, and tell me to keep my opinions to myself. Then again, I'm a slow = learner.=20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kirby Olson=20 To: alexander saliby=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:56 AM Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms Alexander, hi --=20 Did you mean to post this to the general thread or only to me? I = thought it was a much more eloquent defense of the mongrelization of = forms than I had managed. At any rate, thanks for getting to the heart = of the matter.=20 Best,=20 Kirby=20 alexander saliby wrote:=20 Demanding that poetic form purity come from only "native = speaking/native born sons and daughters" smacks to me of the same kind = of prejudice as blood-line purity...who gives a rats ass if somebody = other than a native Farsi speaking writer puts words on a page and in so = doing emulates...however badly...creating either a Ghazal or a sonnet? = And suggesting that one must have the religious ethos of a Muslim in = order to "feel" or "create" or "have empathy with" the original creators = of the Ghazal form smacks even worse of ignorance and bigotry than the = messages I hear coming from most skinheads in Idaho; the claim loses = sight of the human element of the creative process. In fact, most = skinheads I hear fail to recognize humanity in general and accept only a = limited definition of "human." True, languages differ; true, there are = both sociological and religious/philosophy differences among the many = cultures of the globe, but equally true is the element of the human = intellect. We are all, irrespective of our parentage or our trainings = from religious leaders or school teachers, humans. We share an element = of similarity which transcends those superimposed and often super = inflated attitudes...we share frontal lobe limitations and frontal lobe = capacities. Like it or not, physiology matters, and despite our varied = upbringings and our multi-racial/ethnic origins, we are all, in the end, = only human. For me, that means we have all an equal capacity for = emotions; our capacity for creating may vary. You may in truth be far = more talented than I, but, while your talent exceeds mine, and therefore = your verse may ring more pleasantly upon the ears of the listeners, none = the less, we are both capable of similarly creating a "form." The = difference of course is that your work will be superior to mine...you're = just a better writer.AlexP.S. I've been to Clear Lake, nice place. My = wife's from Corydon...not a nice place, too "white" provincial. As late = as 1989, they had a town parade that showed the sheriff chasing the = "darkies" out of town before sunset. My guess is that even there, = students might have created Ghazals worth reading. =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirby Olson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 4:46 PM Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms I wonder if cultural forms can or should remain pure as they leap = from culture=20 to culture. Why should they remain pure? Is purity really = possible? Even in=20 the game of children when you pass a phrase around a circle from = ear to ear the=20 phrase changes. This is part of what's fascinating to me. A form = that doesn't=20 change is somehow dead. Everybody ought to be able to add = something that=20 strikes them as necessary to the form, or to the content. And we = all must read=20 through our own lenses, no? It's very interesting to hear about = the way the=20 ghazal is practiced in its origins, though. I enjoyed it = immensely, and yet at=20 the same time am all for postmodern mongrelism of any and every = kind, as I find=20 it fun. Now that everybody is in evrybody's fac euntil the end of = time (no more=20 separate cultures) we are going to get all kinds of bizarre mixes. = I think the=20 only way to stop it is to say that nobody can touch the ghazal = form at all=20 except orthodox practitioners from certain countries and that = would be to kill=20 the form rather than introduce it to the west, as all the = attitudes and byways=20 of these other cultures are not ours, and we can never really get = inside those=20 other cultures any more than we can attain perfect French accents = when we come=20 from places like Clear Lake, Iowa (my birthplace).=20 It really has to be a conversation in which no one has the upper = hand, but=20 everyone has an opinion, but everyone's opinions have to be = susceptible to=20 change, on every side. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a conversation, = and no=20 friendliness could come of it.=20 -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:22:01 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Basan Subject: Re: Rat-brained robot does distant art In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm.. It's not really clear from this article how the brain will learn anything about its environment by scribbling on paper 19,000 k/m's away. It sounds more like an elaborate telephone call. The assumption that "living brains in people and animals" learn by "adapting and expressing [themselves] through art" is quite a big one, and shows that these scientists are abiding by a linear logic that is hopefully in the process of being discredited. Aside from the fact that they localize "learning' in a brain minus body (though there is the body of the brain that doesn't seem to figure), don't we learn from art and in art and (insert prepositions) art? "Through" is an awful simplification. Tom, any thoughts on this? -Ben __________________________________________________ " Dirt is matter in its wrong place" - Lord Kelvin Popular Lectures and Addresses (1891) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/03 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:24:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Fw: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again, David Meltzer is my rabbi. In response to Exodus 29, David says: In the weird radical move of the Hebrews, the Divine becomes unimaginable unknowable -- ineffable, i.e., beyond words or images -- In a sense it has to do w/ the mystery of language, what can be known through language, what can not -- familiar turf poetry/poetics & religious discourse confronts & explores constantly -- Wieners says poets are "busy taking the breath away from God" -- So the discourse continues. Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirby Olson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:05 PM > Subject: Re: parks again > > > > Hi Michael and Steve -- great ambivalent responses! Just wanted to clear > up the > > Jewish injunction against the image. It's in the first commandment given > to > > Moses: > > > > "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any > thing > > that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in > the > > water under the earth." Exodus 29 > > > > For a long time I wondered if Language poetry wasn't a poetry that was in > > response to this, as at least some of the practitioners are Jewish, even > if > > lapsed. Charles Bernstein is Jewish (this is why he says he hates Pound > > somewhere) and Susan Gervitz is Jewish (I went to Evergreen State College > with > > her), but I doubt if the group is exclusively Jewish. And perhaps not > against > > images per se? > > > > Luther rewrote the ten commandments after Christ and says that this one > cited > > above was bogus and didn't matter any longer (one of his closest friend > was > > Albrecht Durer, the painter). Most people think it is just graven images > that > > are outlawed. But if you look at the second, third, and fourth clauses, > it > > actually outlaws competing with God's creation through the making of ANY > > likeness whatsoever. Luther said it no longer mattered. He was also > against > > the iconoclasts, who went around smashing religious images during the > > Reformation. He told his crowd to cut it out. > > > > Calvin outlawed RELIGIOUS IMAGES, following this first commandment ot the > > letter, and the Baptists do too. Almost every denomination takes a > different > > stand on it. Baptists won't allow any images in their churches. > Presbyterians > > have lightened up a bit or we wouldn't have Marianne Moore's poetry, but > I'm not > > sure which Presbyterian theologian(s) rewrote that commandment or how. I > just > > love doctrine regarding images. > > > > I don't think Marx anywhere said for instance that images had to > correspond to a > > political code. This was codified under Stalin by his goofy general > Zhdanov. > > Interestingly, this set policy in the Soviet Union for about sixty years. > It's > > a short and brilliant article which mostly seems to outlaw humor. Social > > Realism is somewhere int he title of the essay. It's brilliant because > it's so > > clear. Even people like Lukacs had to work with it, or go to jail. But > the > > funny part is that I think that Marx meant art to be adiaphora -- I don't > think > > he wanted to strait-jacket it, but just to monitor it. I don't think he > thought > > it would help the revolution at all. He loved Shakespeare and knew many > of the > > plays by heart. > > > > But somehow the Eastern Orthodox (Stalin was originally studying for the > > ministry) got hold of Marxism, and well, the rest is history. The Eastern > > Orthodox are really serious about the control of images, but I have never > had > > time to dig up the history of their theology on iconomachy. > > > > -- Kirby > > > > > > > I don't know about Jews and the strict letter of the law. I know that > > > there's an awful lot of imagery in kabbalah. > > > > If anybody knows a rabbi, ask them about whether the first commandment in > Exodus > > still holds. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:52:07 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Basan Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms In-Reply-To: <20030729223551.63970.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not my own schoolkids, no, I'm not a school teacher. But when I visit my wife's family in Kyushu, writing English Haiku with the nephews and nieces has become a fun way of teaching them English and for them to teach me Japanese (or about Japanese). They enjoy it because they can be irreverent (their Japanese teachers teach 'lofty' poetry as gravely as mine did) and play with a foreign language in an almost familiar form. Of course, they think English haiku are too easy. I showed them some Jack Kerouac haiku pulled at random from the internet; they were quite surprised it could be so simple and that such simple language could be used in a poem. -Ben __________________________________________________ " Dirt is matter in its wrong place" - Lord Kelvin Popular Lectures and Addresses (1891) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/03 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:46:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby, Some questions: What do you mean by purity in terms of "cultural forms" as you put it? How, then, can a pure form be dead if, say, its soul, shadow or ghost lingers on in the body of a new or other form? Say, English poesy written to reflect Latin verse structure? I think Ali was trying to get at something about purity because if there is purity then you have mongrelism (Ali used this word), right? Certain Bedouin families attained "purity" by inbreeding, and you know what that results in. (Kenner writes on this subject in his The Counterfeiters (his example of Creeley counterfeiting Coleridge's verse structure, and WCW counterfeiting the effortlessness of writing a poem without the poet involved)) I agree with Ali, what you say about "no more separate cultures" is ominous, very much so. I hate to bring in politics to irk you Kirby (hey 'irk' is in your name, Kirby), but take the ransacking of the museums in Iraq. I think that is indicative of what you mean by not being able to really get inside another culture, right? the impossibility of it? Arabic culture is particularly impenetrable since an infidel can't fuck their women. (Unless, of course, you are someone like T.E. Lawrence.) (An expat bit of folklore I heard in the UAE when I first arrived was that you don't touch their women unless you wanted your balls to be sent home in a ziplock bag.) Matt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:26:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: haiku skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I've seen tundra around and really don't see anything other than it being one of many "one word" poems. Sure the white of the page &c. &c., but Aram Saroyan's play on the word oxygen strikes me as being far more clever. And did you mention there being a season word? Where would that be? (I'm working from digest here, so your text is not in front of me.) Spiess' language has never excited me. One of the haiku you quote with its crannied wall echoes Tennyson a little two much for my taste, and though the shells in the last line of the second poem add to that nice picture, the thunder is a tad tired. Of course English language haiku writers will tell you that originality is not so important, and will point to their books of translations to show you the countless variations on radish poems, etc.--but what most of them don't know is how brilliant Japanese language haiku can be and how it has to do with the language itself--particularly the use of Kanji with its many resonances--and the melding of sounds. One does not have to be a Basho to do this. A native speaker's fluency and years of practice is enough to attain it as evidenced by the thousands of good haiku published in Japan every year. If you can read Japanese then you'll see that most English language haiku is like trying to stuff a bear's paw into a lady's silk glove. Even the "good" work is like that. Lorine Niedecker is the only writer who comes close, I believe, to the melding of which I speak with a few of her haiku-like poems. Hear where her snow-grave is the You ah you of mourning doves. Interestingly enough, you won't find LN rmentioned in any of the official histories of English Language haiku. Of course, none of this will stop people from calling tiny poems in English haiku, or prose-poems haibun, etc. etc. In a rush (as always) Jess ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:51:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To a Zen Buddhist, an image is an illusion, so let it be. It seems to me that there's much more fuss than needed, everyone asserting their ego into the fray. I'm not referring to this enjoyable discussion, but theology. Isn't that what it's about? Or else, one would just get on with their own spiritual life, instead of dictating to others. The military/industrial/theological complex has been has been with us for thousands of years. It's latest lap dog sits in the White House, munching on pretzels and pretending to understand. -Joel W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Rothenberg" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:24 AM Subject: Fw: parks again > Hello again, > > David Meltzer is my rabbi. In response to Exodus 29, David says: > > In the weird radical move of the Hebrews, the Divine becomes > unimaginable unknowable -- ineffable, i.e., beyond words or > images -- > > In a sense it has to do w/ the mystery of language, what > can > be known through language, what can not -- familiar turf > poetry/poetics & religious discourse confronts & explores > constantly -- > > Wieners says poets are "busy taking the breath away from > God" -- > > So the discourse continues. > > Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kirby Olson" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:05 PM > > Subject: Re: parks again > > > > > > > Hi Michael and Steve -- great ambivalent responses! Just wanted to > clear > > up the > > > Jewish injunction against the image. It's in the first commandment > given > > to > > > Moses: > > > > > > "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any > > thing > > > that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in > > the > > > water under the earth." Exodus 29 > > > > > > For a long time I wondered if Language poetry wasn't a poetry that was > in > > > response to this, as at least some of the practitioners are Jewish, even > > if > > > lapsed. Charles Bernstein is Jewish (this is why he says he hates Pound > > > somewhere) and Susan Gervitz is Jewish (I went to Evergreen State > College > > with > > > her), but I doubt if the group is exclusively Jewish. And perhaps not > > against > > > images per se? > > > > > > Luther rewrote the ten commandments after Christ and says that this one > > cited > > > above was bogus and didn't matter any longer (one of his closest friend > > was > > > Albrecht Durer, the painter). Most people think it is just graven > images > > that > > > are outlawed. But if you look at the second, third, and fourth clauses, > > it > > > actually outlaws competing with God's creation through the making of ANY > > > likeness whatsoever. Luther said it no longer mattered. He was also > > against > > > the iconoclasts, who went around smashing religious images during the > > > Reformation. He told his crowd to cut it out. > > > > > > Calvin outlawed RELIGIOUS IMAGES, following this first commandment ot > the > > > letter, and the Baptists do too. Almost every denomination takes a > > different > > > stand on it. Baptists won't allow any images in their churches. > > Presbyterians > > > have lightened up a bit or we wouldn't have Marianne Moore's poetry, but > > I'm not > > > sure which Presbyterian theologian(s) rewrote that commandment or how. > I > > just > > > love doctrine regarding images. > > > > > > I don't think Marx anywhere said for instance that images had to > > correspond to a > > > political code. This was codified under Stalin by his goofy general > > Zhdanov. > > > Interestingly, this set policy in the Soviet Union for about sixty > years. > > It's > > > a short and brilliant article which mostly seems to outlaw humor. > Social > > > Realism is somewhere int he title of the essay. It's brilliant because > > it's so > > > clear. Even people like Lukacs had to work with it, or go to jail. But > > the > > > funny part is that I think that Marx meant art to be adiaphora -- I > don't > > think > > > he wanted to strait-jacket it, but just to monitor it. I don't think he > > thought > > > it would help the revolution at all. He loved Shakespeare and knew many > > of the > > > plays by heart. > > > > > > But somehow the Eastern Orthodox (Stalin was originally studying for the > > > ministry) got hold of Marxism, and well, the rest is history. The > Eastern > > > Orthodox are really serious about the control of images, but I have > never > > had > > > time to dig up the history of their theology on iconomachy. > > > > > > -- Kirby > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about Jews and the strict letter of the law. I know that > > > > there's an awful lot of imagery in kabbalah. > > > > > > If anybody knows a rabbi, ask them about whether the first commandment > in > > Exodus > > > still holds. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:06:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: haiku skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "jesse glass" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: haiku skeptic ... > Of course English language haiku writers will tell you that originality is > not so important, and will point to their books of translations to show you > the countless variations on radish poems, etc.--but what most of them don't > know is how brilliant Japanese language haiku can be and how it has to do > with the language itself--particularly the use of Kanji with its many > resonances--and the melding of sounds. One does not have to be a Basho to > do this. A native speaker's fluency and years of practice is enough to > attain it as evidenced by the thousands of good haiku published in Japan > every year. Yes. Also, it was Basho's life that was exemplinary. A few students actually follow his route north. Of course, the landscape has changed, and that language evolves, makes the practice of haiku a continuous challange. > If you can read Japanese then you'll see that most English language haiku is > like trying to stuff a bear's paw into a lady's silk glove. Even the "good" > work is like that. Must be some honey in there. -Joel W. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:14:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: parks again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to a Zen Buddhist, a zen buddhist is an illusion, I guess that includes the White House theology, ideology, one's poetic aesthetic (is that how you say that?) precluding someone elses' sounds the same repression to me but of course we still have our politics, religion and taste... I kind of like it quietly between the sheets, lights dimmed, and nobody eavesdropping... but then there's that damn leafblower outside screwing up the palm fronds THERE OUGHTA BE A LAW! Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:51 AM Subject: Re: parks again > To a Zen Buddhist, an image is an illusion, so let it be. > > It seems to me that there's much more fuss than needed, everyone asserting > their ego into the fray. I'm not referring to this enjoyable discussion, but > theology. Isn't that what it's about? Or else, one would just get on with > their own spiritual life, instead of dictating to others. The > military/industrial/theological complex has been has been with us for > thousands of years. It's latest lap dog sits in the White House, munching on > pretzels and pretending to understand. > > -Joel W. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Rothenberg" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:24 AM > Subject: Fw: parks again > > > > Hello again, > > > > David Meltzer is my rabbi. In response to Exodus 29, David says: > > > > In the weird radical move of the Hebrews, the Divine > becomes > > unimaginable unknowable -- ineffable, i.e., beyond words > or > > images -- > > > > In a sense it has to do w/ the mystery of language, what > > can > > be known through language, what can not -- familiar turf > > poetry/poetics & religious discourse confronts & explores > > constantly -- > > > > Wieners says poets are "busy taking the breath away from > > God" -- > > > > So the discourse continues. > > > > Michael > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kirby Olson" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:05 PM > > > Subject: Re: parks again > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michael and Steve -- great ambivalent responses! Just wanted to > > clear > > > up the > > > > Jewish injunction against the image. It's in the first commandment > > given > > > to > > > > Moses: > > > > > > > > "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of > any > > > thing > > > > that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is > in > > > the > > > > water under the earth." Exodus 29 > > > > > > > > For a long time I wondered if Language poetry wasn't a poetry that was > > in > > > > response to this, as at least some of the practitioners are Jewish, > even > > > if > > > > lapsed. Charles Bernstein is Jewish (this is why he says he hates > Pound > > > > somewhere) and Susan Gervitz is Jewish (I went to Evergreen State > > College > > > with > > > > her), but I doubt if the group is exclusively Jewish. And perhaps not > > > against > > > > images per se? > > > > > > > > Luther rewrote the ten commandments after Christ and says that this > one > > > cited > > > > above was bogus and didn't matter any longer (one of his closest > friend > > > was > > > > Albrecht Durer, the painter). Most people think it is just graven > > images > > > that > > > > are outlawed. But if you look at the second, third, and fourth > clauses, > > > it > > > > actually outlaws competing with God's creation through the making of > ANY > > > > likeness whatsoever. Luther said it no longer mattered. He was also > > > against > > > > the iconoclasts, who went around smashing religious images during the > > > > Reformation. He told his crowd to cut it out. > > > > > > > > Calvin outlawed RELIGIOUS IMAGES, following this first commandment ot > > the > > > > letter, and the Baptists do too. Almost every denomination takes a > > > different > > > > stand on it. Baptists won't allow any images in their churches. > > > Presbyterians > > > > have lightened up a bit or we wouldn't have Marianne Moore's poetry, > but > > > I'm not > > > > sure which Presbyterian theologian(s) rewrote that commandment or how. > > I > > > just > > > > love doctrine regarding images. > > > > > > > > I don't think Marx anywhere said for instance that images had to > > > correspond to a > > > > political code. This was codified under Stalin by his goofy general > > > Zhdanov. > > > > Interestingly, this set policy in the Soviet Union for about sixty > > years. > > > It's > > > > a short and brilliant article which mostly seems to outlaw humor. > > Social > > > > Realism is somewhere int he title of the essay. It's brilliant > because > > > it's so > > > > clear. Even people like Lukacs had to work with it, or go to jail. > But > > > the > > > > funny part is that I think that Marx meant art to be adiaphora -- I > > don't > > > think > > > > he wanted to strait-jacket it, but just to monitor it. I don't think > he > > > thought > > > > it would help the revolution at all. He loved Shakespeare and knew > many > > > of the > > > > plays by heart. > > > > > > > > But somehow the Eastern Orthodox (Stalin was originally studying for > the > > > > ministry) got hold of Marxism, and well, the rest is history. The > > Eastern > > > > Orthodox are really serious about the control of images, but I have > > never > > > had > > > > time to dig up the history of their theology on iconomachy. > > > > > > > > -- Kirby > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about Jews and the strict letter of the law. I know > that > > > > > there's an awful lot of imagery in kabbalah. > > > > > > > > If anybody knows a rabbi, ask them about whether the first commandment > > in > > > Exodus > > > > still holds. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: parks again In-Reply-To: <000f01c356aa$0c517580$bafdfc83@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Im sure Ive written many of what might be logged as "park" poems over the year, but this lifelong project seems much more relevant. mIEKAL] The Driftless Grotto of West Lima In the tiny unincorporated town of West Lima, Wisconsin, Xexoxial Endarchy, Ltd. owns, among other propertieswhich serve as facilities for "Dreamtime Village" & other projects, a one-acre lot in the center of town which was historically the "town square." As a public art project we have begun to design for this site The Driftless Grotto of West Lima, a village park environment that will be part fantasmagorical roadside attraction, picnic area, permaculture demonstration, sculpture garden, & shrine to the Driftless Region. Special features of the finished Grotto will include 1) A stone-pillared concrete & blue-glass bottle archway entrance; 2) Mosaiced fence around the perimeter of the square; 3) A vernacular futuristic tower housing a Jules Verne-style "time machine" which will be operated by the movements of live birds inside a heated aviary; 4) Carved & painted remains of a dying 200 yr-old willow tree in the lot; 5) Flow-form water fountains & birdbaths & picnic benches; & 6) A web of tunnels inspired by & emanating from the extant remains on the lot of an old basement & a cistern which local folk tell us was literally the town watering-hole & weekly gathering place many years ago. 7) A bog garden of endemic carniverous pitcher plants. http://www.dreamtimevillage.org/grotto/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:54:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: Postcard Poems + Oxygen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear You, Postcard Poems + Oxygen on Sunday, August 3 @ 7pm Poetry Espresso wishes you HERE: 2202 Oxygen Bar 795 Valencia @ 19th San Francisco to celebrate & read from Postcard Poems books readings (in pairs) by: Cassie Lewis Tim Yu Stephanie Young Jennifer Dannenberg Nick Piombino Catherine Meng Del Ray Cross & if you can't attend you can nab these lovely books here: www.poetryespresso.org Love, Del ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:04:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: haiku skeptic In-Reply-To: <000101c3572c$b53da740$4e14d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I deleted too quickly but remember some things you said about "tundra." Yes, just one word, but done before "mere" pwoermds were being much done, and still one of the best ever done. I would consider "tundra" a season word. The blank page is also, surely, a season graphic. I think you're just very immersed in Japanese haiku (and culture) and so a tad biased--as I am about the kind of minimalist English language poetry I've been immersed for decades. > Of course English language haiku writers will tell > you that originality is > not so important, and will point to their books of > translations to show you > the countless variations on radish poems, etc.--but > what most of them don't > know is how brilliant Japanese language haiku can be > and how it has to do > with the language itself--particularly the use of > Kanji with its many > resonances--and the melding of sounds. The same kind of case is made by the neoformalists for their kind of stuff. But all I know of Japanese haiku are translations, and they were enough to get me into haiku, but I think the haiku I quoted are in their league. And I didn't go into their sounds, including that of "tundra." (What Japanese haiku captures silence better? And not just silence but the absence of words, at an edge of the world where words finally are overtly useless. . . .) > One does not > have to be a Basho to > do this. A native speaker's fluency and years of > practice is enough to > attain it as evidenced by the thousands of good > haiku published in Japan > every year. > If you can read Japanese then you'll see that most > English language haiku is > like trying to stuff a bear's paw into a lady's silk > glove. Even the "good" > work is like that. I find that hard to believe since I can't imagine more delicate works than many of the good English language haiku I've seen are. I would add that I would rather produce a bear's paw than a lady's silk glove--but understand that to be a case of to each his own. > Lorine Niedecker is the only writer who comes close, > I believe, to the > melding of which I speak with a few of her > haiku-like poems. > > Hear > where her snow-grave is > the You > ah you > of mourning doves. But to me, this is just one more standard flowers are alive on Ma's grave haiku, although pretty good for its genre. > Interestingly enough, you won't find LN rmentioned > in any of the official > histories of English Language haiku. A Big Problem in American literary history is the ghettoization of the haiku community--and its ignorance of poets known for non-haiku who also composed haiku. > Of course, none of this will stop people from > calling tiny poems in English > haiku, or prose-poems haibun, etc. etc. In a rush > (as always) Jess I'll only note that I didn't mention the various pluraesthetic poets who are combining graphics and other expressive modes with words to make haiku that I can't believe any Japanese have outdone. Of course, this is a huge subject. I don't feel I can adequately defend English-language haiku in less than a book, and I don't have time to write one for this thread. --Bob G. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:21:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: Free Space Comix Updates (p.s. Circulars lives still...) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stephen, I thought the Futures Sales gimmick was a Gothic News Service release at first. As with variations on modest proposals, the world has gone far beyond satire. Nonetheless, the Futures market on terror and assassinations fits well within the logic of the extremists who hold power now: the market is the fount of all knowledge, so let's use the market for "intelligence" purposes. Take care, Hilton At 06:32 PM 7/29/2003 -0700, Stephen Vincent wrote: >Heah, good to see the reassertion de Circulars - thought the exchange - on >which I commented - was a piece of 'obituary worship' - well, there's a >concept much practiced (e.g. Hope, Bob). >Thanks for putting up the Pentagon Futures Sale Strategy. That one does - >or almost out does any of the Gothix. But maybe this is the phase we are >moving into - open faced Gov Gothix. One that started with cosmetic rehab - >scare the shit out of anyone - facials on the Hussein boys dead. I can't >even begin to imagine the next. It was nice to Sen Biden do a little S&M >with Wolfolitz in Committee today. Wasn't it Biden who had to disappear from >public ambition because of a plagiarism charge behind one of his speeches >back in the seventies or eighties? Now he gets to ring Wolf for lying to the >American people. Dark comedies invade from the wings. Who set the fires in >the FrenchsensualRiviera - the "Infidels" or the "Evangelicals"? > >O California, bring on Shwartznogger, Issa etc. Real thugs or simulated ones >- eat your heart out B'driard. Out here in the land of theory thieves. > >Stephen V > > >on 7/29/03 5:44 PM, Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net] at bstefans@earthlink.net >wrote: > > > > > CIRCULARS is still alive: > > > > http://www.arras.net/circulars/ > > > > New on FREE SPACE COMIX (mostly just a bunch of loudmouthing, cool links, > > and some lively comments -- see below). The stories listed below are in > > reverse order -- the earliest story is the lowest on this list: > > > > http://www.arras.net/weblog/ > > > > links: DARPA: Information Awareness Office > > > > open letters: Email to the New York Review of Books re: Comics for > Grown-Ups > > > > "I should have been suspicious from the start -- I don't think Genesis or > > Yes or King Crimson based a concept album on the interactions of a village > > of impoverished Mexicans, as the Brothers Hernandez did in Love & Rockets, > > and a critic who cites The World According to Garp as some sort of literary > > milestone while in the throes of disparaging an entire culture for being > > "junk art for adolescents" has certainly lost site long ago of what it > means > > to be a popular, sophisticated -- not to mention culturally specific -- > > artist." > > > > detournements: RE: THE_OPERATION > > > > exchanges: Exchange on Circulars: final version > > > > "Darren Wershler-Henry: Even when the current search technologies adapt to > > spider the extra text that blogging has created, the problem of anemic > > content isn’t going to go away unless we start doing more collective > writing > > online. The problem is partly a need for education; most writers are still > > in the process of learning how to use the web to best advantage." > > > > links: The dullest blog in the world > > > > links: Combo: new issue and website > > > > links: I love you galleries > > > > poems: Very Light and Sweet > > > > blogwatch: Silliman Commentaries Acrobat File > > > > links: Quids online > > > > blogwatch: Peacitude > > > > "My point was to argue (grouchily but hoping to make a serious mark) with a > > set of terms being tossed about on Silliman's Blog (which I view as an > > effective act of criticism) -- "school of quietude" versus an unnamed > > something else, the idea of a "third way" as a "death wish", the continued > > relevance of a battle against the British (except Raworth, of course) and > > their "dead" meters, the use of an ascertainment of "lineage" as a stand-in > > for "deep reading," etc. I think of these as strategies of "Balkanization" > > that are not useful, are blind politics, and seem terribly dated." > > > > chatter: The Secret Life of Terminals > > > > links: Screeds R Us > > > > blogwatch: Getting Ready to Have Been Skunked > > > > "I guess my central question is, in these quick notes: which poem is more > > focused in its "negativity," more attuned to the properties of language, > > more aware that time, indeed, is precious, and that reading (not to mention > > writing) should not be a matter of indifference but rather a point-by-point > > handling of the opportunities and issues it throws up?" > > > > poems: They're Putting a New Door In > > > > blogwatch: Avocados in the Andes (with a side of panache) > > > > blogwatch: Further Notes from Underground > > > > links: 3 Flash Digi-Po pieces by 100luziano testi paul > > > > blogwatch: More CPR for Silliman and Lowell > > > > "I think it's a sign of the even-handedness of "madman" Lowell's approach > > that he includes this anecdote about Yvor Winters, and it seems to me that > > Lowell, if anything, hopes only to make this "war" tenable as something of > > cultural value, were that possible, than to win it!" > > > > blogwatch: Bells & Whistles > > > > reviews: Ted Berrigan: Selected Poems > > > > blogwatch: The "Third Way", etc. > > > > "I don't think any Language poet with the exception of Bruce Andrews (and > > maybe Bernstein and Watten) has taken the project of the evisceration of > > national social (or linguistic) mores to the same extremes thant the great > > French tradition (or anti-tradition) of Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Lautreamont, > > Jarry, the Situationists (Guyotat is often identified as one of them), > > etc. -- not to mention predecessors Rousseau or de Sade. Most Language > > writing looks quite polite and "healthy" in comparison, at least from this > > perspective -- the Protestant ethic of the good work done daily in order to > > "make it new" appears as a subprogram of much of this writing." > > > > links: Critical Arts Ensemble > > > > blogwatch: Silliman on Lowell > > > > "What is really happening is that there is an assumption that, because the > > “tradition” or “lineage” to Grenier is beginning to ally himself is > > occluded, then one could never in fact read his poetry ­ as if a reader of > > Grenier’s poetry in the “Bay State” had simply never seen Futurism or > > Cubism, never saw or read the poetry of Rimbaud, Marinetti or Williams, > > never read Woolf, Faulkner or Joyce, never heard of Stravinsky or John > Cage, > > etc. (This lineage issue ­ nothing is more important than protecting the > > lineage to RS, and nothing more nefarious to BKS -- reappears below.)" > > > > carnival: The Four Horsemen > > > > links: InterActivist Info Exchange > > > > reviews: Rod Smith, Music or Honesty > > > > exchanges: Exchange on Circulars 6 > > > > reviews: Little Review: Kenneth Goldsmith, Day > > > > "But, in fact, Goldmsith is on to something deeper than mere pop bravado, > > as Day shows that a reader's interests are fed by only a fraction of the > > available information out there, but one needs this exclusivity, this > > personal-editing, to gird identity. For a tennis fan, there is a unique > > pleasure in reading about Andre Agassi's 3rd round loss to Arnauld Clement > > in the 2000 French Open, just riding the wave of his big comeback, showing > > he's human and also not yet married to Steffi Graf (a little beyond > > human) -- and that this "day" occurred before 9/11 adds to the pathos." > > > > enthusiasms: Werner Herzog's Stroszek > > > > RECENT COMMENTS > > > > ¶ re: Email to the New York Review of Books re: Comics for Grown-Ups > > by ernesto on July 29, 2003 05:37 PM by kristine on July 29, 2003 01:28 PM > > by Mr. Arras on July 29, 2003 11:49 AM by The English Channel on July 29, > > 2003 11:45 AM by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 11:41 AM by The > > English Channel on July 29, 2003 11:39 AM > > > > ¶ re: DARPA: Information Awareness Office > > by The English Channel on July 29, 2003 04:54 PM > > > > ¶ re: Short poem > > by shi on July 27, 2003 09:09 AM by Gary Sullivan on June 18, 2003 01:26 PM > > > > ¶ re: Keston Sutherland responds to Carol Mirakove > > by postal code on July 26, 2003 01:12 AM by Paul Palmer on June 23, 2003 > > 04:58 PM by carol mirakove on January 23, 2003 12:02 PM > > > > ¶ re: Quids online > > by p. backonja on July 22, 2003 12:58 PM > > > > ¶ re: Peacitude > > by jonathon wilcke on July 22, 2003 12:58 AM by Louis Cabri on July 20, > 2003 > > 02:01 AM by Tim Yu on July 19, 2003 01:31 AM by Louis Cabri on July 18, > 2003 > > 07:38 PM by Louis Cabri on July 18, 2003 07:25 PM by Tim Yu on July 17, > 2003 > > 05:31 PM by Mr. Arras on July 16, 2003 08:12 PM by Tim Yu on July 16, 2003 > > 05:42 PM > > > > ¶ re: Hotel Gaudi on WTC site > > by Bob LaRue on July 21, 2003 05:24 PM by reuben on February 7, 2003 01:46 > > PM by Arthur Hooks on February 5, 2003 07:46 PM by marguerite lippert on > > January 30, 2003 02:21 PM by Kenji Matsumoto on January 23, 2003 09:45 > PM by > > Jay on January 23, 2003 07:52 PM by Scott Wagstaff on January 23, 2003 > 03:18 > > PM by Michael Varley on January 23, 2003 12:48 PM by Corina Copp on January > > 23, 2003 10:54 AM by james oden on January 23, 2003 10:15 AM by fxcossio on > > January 23, 2003 05:35 AM by "not just imagining things" on January 9, 2003 > > 11:50 AM by Gary Sullivan on January 8, 2003 01:26 PM > > > > ¶ re: William Knowles Spook Words > > by Reptilian on July 17, 2003 05:27 PM by Reptilian on July 17, 2003 05:22 > > PM by NSA they did it on July 17, 2003 05:16 PM > > > > ¶ re: Getting Ready to Have Been Skunked > > by Henry Gould on July 16, 2003 11:01 AM by Henry Gould on July 15, 2003 > > 03:57 PM by p. backonja on July 14, 2003 10:43 PM by david rosenberg on > July > > 14, 2003 02:41 PM by Kent Johnson on July 14, 2003 01:59 PM by Kent Johnson > > on July 14, 2003 01:55 PM by Mr. Arras on July 14, 2003 08:40 AM by Jack > > Kimball on July 13, 2003 04:42 PM by Mr. Arras on July 13, 2003 04:15 PM by > > david rosenberg on July 13, 2003 12:23 AM by Steve Tills on July 12, 2003 > > 08:05 PM > > > > ¶ re: The Secret Life of Terminals > > by Gary Sullivan on July 16, 2003 10:34 AM > > > > ¶ re: Bells & Whistles > > by Jerrold Shiroma on July 16, 2003 04:38 AM by The English Channel on July > > 9, 2003 09:29 AM by Jerrold Shiroma on July 8, 2003 06:59 PM > > > > ¶ re: Fashionable Noise cover > > by zip codes on July 15, 2003 04:01 PM by travis ortiz on May 6, 2003 09:53 > > PM by cover letter on April 17, 2003 01:22 PM by travis ortiz on April 4, > > 2003 01:32 PM by Gary Sullivan on April 1, 2003 03:52 PM > > > > ¶ re: Quick Note to Kimball > > by Jack Kimball on July 14, 2003 12:01 PM > > > > ¶ re: Silliman on Lowell > > by Kimberly Lyons on July 14, 2003 01:18 AM by p. backonja on July 10, 2003 > > 12:43 PM by Kent Johnson on July 10, 2003 12:29 PM by Ange on July 10, 2003 > > 10:51 AM by Henry Gould on July 10, 2003 08:12 AM by Mark DuCharme on July > > 10, 2003 01:41 AM by Louis Cabri on July 9, 2003 10:59 PM by Mr. Arras on > > July 9, 2003 10:12 PM by Ange on July 9, 2003 09:48 PM by Mr. Arras on July > > 9, 2003 02:58 PM by Ben Friedlander on July 9, 2003 02:20 PM by Henry Gould > > on July 9, 2003 01:18 PM by Kent Johnson on July 9, 2003 12:15 PM by Nick > > LoLordo on July 7, 2003 03:18 PM by Robert Kelly on July 6, 2003 09:34 PM > > > > ¶ re: Ted Berrigan: Selected Poems > > by Louis Cabri on July 13, 2003 09:22 PM > > > > ¶ re: Avocados in the Andes (with a side of panache) > > by Kent Johnson on July 13, 2003 02:49 PM by Mr. Arras on July 12, 2003 > > 07:32 PM by Jeffery Julich on July 12, 2003 05:33 PM by Louis Cabri on July > > 10, 2003 06:14 PM by Tim Yu on July 10, 2003 02:14 PM > > > > ¶ re: They're Putting a New Door In > > by Gary Sullivan on July 11, 2003 02:17 PM by Mr. Arras on July 11, 2003 > > 12:50 PM by Gary Sullivan on July 11, 2003 09:14 AM by Stephen Vincent on > > July 10, 2003 07:35 PM > > > > ¶ re: More CPR for Silliman and Lowell > > by The Drunk Corpse on July 8, 2003 12:55 PM > > > > ¶ re: The "Third Way", etc. > > by J Kimball on July 6, 2003 10:44 PM by graywyvern on July 5, 2003 > 06:58 PM > > > > ¶ re: Werner Herzog's Stroszek > > by Mr. Arras on June 26, 2003 11:14 AM by kristine on June 26, 2003 > 09:36 AM > > by Mr. Arras on June 24, 2003 04:55 PM by kristine on June 24, 2003 > 04:45 PM > > by Mr. Arras on June 24, 2003 04:10 PM by kristine on June 24, 2003 > 03:57 PM > > > > ____ > > > > A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics > > http://www.arras.net > > > > Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! > > > > "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall > > hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:33:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Study Links Hitler to Reagan, Limbaugh & bush supports law that defines marriage In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Psychological Study Links Hitler to Reagan, Limbaugh By David Fein CNSNews.com Correspondent July 24, 2003 http://www.cnsnews.com/ ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200307\POL20030724e.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bush says he supports law that defines marriage as union between man and woman Wednesday, July 30, 2003 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/a/2003/07/30/ national1127EDT0541.DTL (07-30) 08:27 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush said Wednesday he has government lawyers working on a law that would define marriage as a union between a woman and a man, casting aside calls to legalize gay marriages. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and I believe we ought to codify that one way or the other and we have lawyers looking at the best way to do that," the president said a wide-ranging news conference at the White House Rose Garden. Bush also urged, however, that America remain a "welcoming country" -- not polarized on the issue of homosexuality. "I am mindful that we're all sinners and I caution those who may try to take a speck out of the neighbor's eye when they got a log in their own," the president said. "I think it is important for our society to respect each individual, to welcome those with good hearts." "On the other hand, that does not mean that someone like me needs to compromise on the issue of marriage," he added. Bush has long opposed gay marriage but as recently as earlier this month had said that a constitutional ban on gay marriage proposed in the House might not be needed despite a Supreme Court decision that some conservatives think opens the door to legalizing same-sex marriages. The Supreme Court struck down a Texas law that made homosexual sex a crime, overturning an earlier ruling that said states could punish homosexuals for having sex. Conservative Justice Antonin Scalia fired off a blistering dissent of the ruling. The "opinion dismantles the structure of constitutional law that has permitted a distinction to be made between heterosexual and homosexual unions, insofar as formal recognition in marriage is concerned," Scalia wrote. The ruling specifically said that the court was not addressing that issue, but Scalia warned, "Do not believe it." Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, R-Colo., is the main sponsor of the proposal offered May 21 to amend the Constitution. It was referred on June 25 to the House Judiciary subcommittee on the Constitution. To be added to the Constitution, the proposal must be approved by two-thirds of the House and the Senate and ratified by three-fourths of the states. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:03:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Village Voices Aim is Boog Tonight at CB's Gallery Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit from today's Village Voice: "My Aim is Boog Thirteen NYC acts cover the songs on Elvis Costello's first two albums, in order, including performances by the Trouble Dolls, Pantsuit, Ruth Gordon (and I thought she was dead), Dan Saltzman, the Tet Offensive, and more. Even if you caught the real McCoy on his recent visit to NYC, at least this show promises you'll hear 'Allison.'" TONIGHT at 8 p.m., $8 Boog City Relaunch Fundraiser Party CB's 313 Gallery 313 Bowery NYC Directions: 6 to Bleecker St., F to 2nd Avenue Club is between 1st and 2nd streets -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:09:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: News of the day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bush Casts Aside Calls to Legalize Gay Marriage By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS 11:50 AM ET President Bush said today he has government lawyers working on a law that would define marriage as a union between a woman and a banana. Hal "I judge a woman and a horse by the same criteria: legs, head, and rear end." --Elizabeth Arden Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:17:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: :::seven~:; Comments: cc: 7-11 7-11 <7-11@mail.ljudmila.org>, "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, spiral bridge , cyberculture , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 7. not-closure indicates an omission trained on slits of sky are parted by gentle probes of trees reveal that stationary Anemone voices painting the walls until all her laws are blank by 8-bit construction set one red picnic bench in anonymity authors books pungeant tryptich candles with her mouth sprayed and almost full patterned by quilted flowers lures attention blue Armitage in its suffering panic is not closure in soft doors ticking ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:35:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: parks again In-Reply-To: <046D963C-C2A1-11D7-A43A-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This sounds like fun - and labor intensive - mIEKAL. I hope I can some day roll across the continent to the middle and visit. I must say when my monitor abused eyes caught #7 7) A bog garden of endemic carniverous pitcher plants I read "blog" instead of "bog." Which got me to thinking of what a virtual "blog" garden would look like, or more, possibly, appropriate, a "blog cemetary" - and whether or not there is a material counterpart that could fit into a real garden. Secretly I suspect most dead blogs are being shot out into outer-space to live another life among inner-planetary folks who are making research decisions about whether or not they really want to come and colonize Earth and our various environs. If so, I am sure your Grotto - blog or no blog - will be a prime attraction. Don't forget to build a landing pad of, maybe, non-carniverous soft ferns. Stephen V on 7/30/03 8:18 AM, mIEKAL aND at dtv@MWT.NET wrote: > [Im sure Ive written many of what might be logged as "park" poems over > the year, but this lifelong project seems much more relevant. mIEKAL] > > > The Driftless Grotto of West Lima > > In the tiny unincorporated town of West Lima, Wisconsin, Xexoxial > Endarchy, Ltd. owns, among other propertieswhich serve as facilities > for "Dreamtime Village" & other projects, a one-acre lot in the center > of town which was historically the "town square." As a public art > project we have begun to design for this site The Driftless Grotto of > West Lima, a village park environment that will be part fantasmagorical > roadside attraction, picnic area, permaculture demonstration, sculpture > garden, & shrine to the Driftless Region. Special features of the > finished Grotto will include > > 1) A stone-pillared concrete & blue-glass bottle archway entrance; > > 2) Mosaiced fence around the perimeter of the square; > > 3) A vernacular futuristic tower housing a Jules Verne-style "time > machine" which will be operated by the movements of live birds inside a > heated aviary; > > 4) Carved & painted remains of a dying 200 yr-old willow tree in the > lot; > > 5) Flow-form water fountains & birdbaths & picnic benches; & > > 6) A web of tunnels inspired by & emanating from the extant remains on > the lot of an old basement & a cistern which local folk tell us was > literally the town watering-hole & weekly gathering place many years > ago. > > 7) A bog garden of endemic carniverous pitcher plants. > > http://www.dreamtimevillage.org/grotto/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:05:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tracy S. Ruggles" Subject: Re: haiku skeptic In-Reply-To: <20030730160407.10309.qmail@web21602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 11:04 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I think you're just very immersed in Japanese haiku > (and culture) and so a tad biased--as I am about the > kind of minimalist English language poetry I've been > immersed for decades. Wouldn't these taste of haiku?... > A Token > ------- > > My lady > fair with > soft > arms, what > > can I say to > you-words, words > as if all > worlds were there. > > -- Robert Creeley .. > MEDITATION IN THE WHITE MOUNTAINS > > Blue sky > few crags, the slopes > are green > > air > whistling by > the granite stopwatch > > -- Clark Coolidge .. > Vaudeville > > I leave the theatre, > keeping step, keeping step to the music. > It sticks to my feet, > stepped into dung. > > Night falls > in still flakes. > > -- Charles Reznikoff .. > is so > of > from > > > =A0 > > =A0 > > the > even > been > the > > -- Clark Coolidge (from Space) .. > http://fermi.phys.ualberta.ca/~amk/galles/dachau_po.jpg > > -- Jerome Rothenberg .. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:33:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: It is impurtant for society to devoid each and every group In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By CNN Predicament Bush goes on to state " It is impurtant for society to devoid each and every group. allow those that are like to love me and cherish me and those who are not, move in with them nasty nasty terrrist . . . as you heard me said eater yur with us good americiins or agast us... and naif your agast us yur a terrrust," On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 10:09 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Bush Casts Aside Calls to Legalize Gay Marriage > > By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS 11:50 AM ET > > President Bush said today he has government lawyers > working on a law that would define marriage as a > union between a woman and a banana. > > > Hal "I judge a woman and a horse by the same > criteria: legs, head, and rear end." > --Elizabeth Arden > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:57:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: haiku skeptic In-Reply-To: <000101c3572c$b53da740$4e14d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jesse: I think you're describing poetry in general. The problem if there is one with haiku in English is that most people write them as a sort of exercise. But the vast majority of Japanese haiku that I've seen (granted, in translation) succeed in being no better than adequate, and I doubt that there are thousands of good ones published every year--hell, there aren't thousands of good poems published every year in the world at large. Unless you're using the word "good" in a special way. Or are you saying that "a native speaker's fluency and years of practice is enough" all by itself to generate good short poems, but only if that fluency is in Japanese? That would be a pretty extraordinary claim. Mark At 11:26 PM 7/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Yes, I've seen tundra around and really don't see anything other than it >being one of many "one word" poems. Sure the white of the page &c. &c., but >Aram Saroyan's play on the word oxygen strikes me as being far more clever. >And did you mention there being a season word? Where would that be? (I'm >working from digest here, so your text is not in front of me.) Spiess' >language has never excited me. One of the haiku you quote with its crannied >wall echoes Tennyson a little two much for my taste, and though the shells >in the last line of the second poem add to that nice picture, the thunder is >a tad tired. > >Of course English language haiku writers will tell you that originality is >not so important, and will point to their books of translations to show you >the countless variations on radish poems, etc.--but what most of them don't >know is how brilliant Japanese language haiku can be and how it has to do >with the language itself--particularly the use of Kanji with its many >resonances--and the melding of sounds. One does not have to be a Basho to >do this. A native speaker's fluency and years of practice is enough to >attain it as evidenced by the thousands of good haiku published in Japan >every year. > >If you can read Japanese then you'll see that most English language haiku is >like trying to stuff a bear's paw into a lady's silk glove. Even the "good" >work is like that. > >Lorine Niedecker is the only writer who comes close, I believe, to the >melding of which I speak with a few of her haiku-like poems. > >Hear >where her snow-grave is >the You > ah you >of mourning doves. > >Interestingly enough, you won't find LN rmentioned in any of the official >histories of English Language haiku. > >Of course, none of this will stop people from calling tiny poems in English >haiku, or prose-poems haibun, etc. etc. In a rush (as always) Jess ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:24:10 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kirby Olson wrote: > > > Kirby Olson wrote: > >> Kazim and Matt, >> >> You raise huge issues of colonialism and ominous-ness if that's a >> word in regard to the problem of multicultural transference. But >> transference on a cultural level doesn't go from powerful country to >> weaker country necessarily. For instance, Rome far outweighed Judea >> in terms of military might, and smacked them down repeatedly, but >> the Jews are still around -- there's a wonderful Reznikoff poem on >> this but I can't find my copy -- he says that a hardy plant with >> good roots can survive the wheel of any number of carts rolling on >> top of it, and that two thousand years after Rome, when Rome is but >> a memory, people will still speak Hebrew in the gates of Jerusalem. >> >> You can see a similar thing in the Islamic tradition. In spite of >> massive efforts to wipe out the Sufis, they are still around, >> somehow more vibrant than ever. >> >> There are colonialisms inside of colonial countries. It fascinates >> me -- there are Aramaic Christians inside of Iraq who have been >> there since BEFORE Islam began (they are remnants of the first >> Christian empire established by Jonah) -- and they were downtrodden >> by the Iraqi government, and were hoping for American bombs to free >> them from Saddam. There are still remnants of gnostic faiths in >> that area -- 20,000 Mandeans, for instance. But colonialism doesn't >> work in terms of military might. It has something to do with the >> heart, and with mysterious movements of faith that I can't explain. >> >> Who's doing the colonizing? >> >> The Buddhists in Asia have been stomped militarily -- in many cases >> beheaded and tortured by the Maoists who took over Tibet. But there >> they are, and one has the sense that long after the Maoists have >> given up trying to keep a people down, the Buddhists will still be >> there. >> >> And inside of Islamic countries like Malaysia there are many >> different competing groups of Islamic and secular people struggling >> for supremacy, while at the same time hating the Dutch, and the >> Japanese, who tried to keep them down. >> >> It's weird to think what survives. In the contact between east and >> west in Alexandria in 200 AD for instance -- officially the city was >> Roman, but nobody was paying attention to Roman gods. They were >> gone. What moved people was the discussions of gnosticism. >> Alexander had gone clear into India and conquered everything >> militarily -- but what came back? All kinds of strange religions -- >> from forgotten peoples in remote corners -- who had developed >> another kind of strength. People don't listen to power. They >> listen to beauty. And these new religions had a beauty that >> outshone the Roman's. >> >> This seems to have spread through Europe -- Hans Jonas quotes >> Spengler who uses the image of hollow rocks in which crystals of >> another kind form. The crystals of another kind refer to beliefs >> growing in what has become hollow. The resort to force is a sign of >> weakness. >> >> Rome itself tried to stomp out the Christians. No dice. They got >> their first Christian emperors in the fifth century. And then when >> the Visigoths came -- they were themselves Arian Christians. >> >> But the nervousness of one's way of life disappearing is on every >> side. Colonialism is never a one-way street. That's the paradox of >> it. Military power does nothing. In Bucharest under Ceausescu he >> tried to stomp out Christians -- in many cases having his men in >> underground torture chambers break the necks of Christian bishops in >> front of others. The bishop would continue to sing his hymns as >> blood poured out of his neck and mouth until he could no longer >> sing. What makes somebody like this almost invincible? They >> believe in something higher and more beautiful. >> >> And so there's hope that the realm of the spirit is somehow >> unshakeable, and doesn't have any correspondence with the realm of >> military might. In a sense, military strength can even be seen as a >> sign of weakness. Saddam himself used it against his own people. >> It was ineffective, because there is something else flowing through >> people that has to do with some other mysterious underground force, >> call it what you will -- but money and power have nothing to do with >> it, and the weak do end up inheriting the earth. What our >> government is doing in terms of the military action there is not >> going to determine anything at all. What will matter is the beauty >> or ugliness of the message that is sent in the aftermath. >> >> I'll give you one more example: nobody has been more oppressed and >> more put upon than American blacks. And yet -- in spite of efforts >> to keep them from voting, to keep them out of the best schools, to >> lynch their men and rape their women and slaughter their >> neighborhoods -- Robert Moses slammed highways through the Bronx >> like nails through palms -- whose music do we listen to? Who >> colonized who? They had something beautiful and it went through -- >> somehow rock n roll and rhythm and blues took over for the young >> because it was more beautiful. > Oh, I just found the Reznikoff poem -- he says it better -- You have seen a bush beside the road Whose leaves the passing beasts pluck at And whose twigs are sometimes broken By a wheel, and yet it flourishes Because the roots are sound -- Such a heavy wheel is Rome; These Romans, All the legions of the East From Egypt and Syria, The islands of the sea and the rivers of Parthia, Gathered here to trample down Jerusalem, When they have become a legend And Rome a fable, That old men will tell of in the city's gate, The tellers will be Jews and the speech Hebrew. (by the Waters of Manhattan 34) >> >> -- Kirby > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:46:00 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Matt, what I'm trying to say in the initial post is that culture is separate from and more powerful than politics. Politics has to do with outward forms of power. Art is something that moves the heart and spirit. I have no idea what I meant by purity. I think I was using the word mongrelism, but then, you see, everything is all mixed up, and who cares finally, no? We'll all forget this conversation in a week. But the principles will remain -- that which is most beautiful will survive. Everything is going to go into the garbage. My post will vanish, but Reznikoff's poem will survive. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:13:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: ~ haiku septic ~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks a load, Tony Just what I've always wanted reduce and slow -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:12:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: The Hym(e)n Of Humanity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Hym(e)n Of Humanity #0001 - #0003 palestine termite juridical termite long coming kind palestine termite juridical termite long coming kind palestine termite juridical termite long coming kind pending surprised remembering dark cold tv tanned hands face ruddy brown marmelade leg fireman gather marmelade leg fireman preoccupied nested pending surprised remembering dark cold pending surprised remembering dark cold tv tanned hands face ruddy brown marmelade leg fireman gather marmelade leg fireman preoccupied nested pending surprised remembering dark cold skillful vs rod flint olives skillful vs rod Diamond all glorious obey mundane Iden ledge outside heavy spray lifted whiskers general Syria set Friday June frighten flag whiskers general Syria set Friday June race obey mundane Iden obey mundane Iden ledge outside heavy spray lifted whiskers general Syria set Friday June frighten flag whiskers general Syria set Friday June race obey mundane Iden bite Duchy emblem mourn no titan was physics verb titan flow difference louder bite Duchy bite Duchy emblem mourn no titan was physics verb titan flow difference louder bite Duchy bite Duchy emblem mourn no titan was physics verb titan flow difference louder bite Duchy memory lentil outsider beggar all save trade congratulation approaching slowly suspicious scour father congratulation approaching slowly decoction memory lentil outsider memory lentil outsider beggar all save trade congratulation approaching slowly suspicious scour father congratulation approaching slowly decoction memory lentil outsider obey mundane Iden ledge outside heavy spray lifted whiskers general Syria set Friday June frighten flag whiskers general Syria set Friday June race obey mundane Iden stem kill residence formality Leave less desolation nay even sperm Leave less desolation nay even islam entire penicillin stem kill residence stem kill residence formality Leave less desolation nay even sperm Leave less desolation nay even islam entire penicillin stem kill residence mathematics levels harvest rig steak dam called Elzevir guessing come mathematics levels harvest mathematics levels harvest rig steak dam called Elzevir guessing come mathematics levels harvest mathematics levels harvest rig steak dam called Elzevir guessing come mathematics levels harvest orchestra tightened pug Stral pharmacy picturesque pug Stral religion uninstall orchestra orchestra tightened pug Stral pharmacy picturesque pug Stral religion uninstall orchestra stem kill residence formality Leave less desolation nay even sperm Leave less desolation nay even islam entire penicillin stem kill residence fishmonger seal drivers to ay hellenian drivers to ay hellenian fishmonger seal fishmonger seal drivers to ay hellenian drivers to ay hellenian fishmonger seal Bonaventure men All appliances purchase modes work noise waves beach floods work noise waves beach floods likable will mankind know knew Bonaventure men Bonaventure men All appliances purchase modes work noise waves beach floods work noise waves beach floods likable will mankind know knew Bonaventure men Bonaventure men All appliances purchase modes work noise waves beach floods work noise waves beach floods likable will mankind know knew Bonaventure men fanatical together sound coffin digging fair the peas woodpile petrol fanatical together sound coffin digging fair the peas woodpile petrol fishmonger seal drivers to ay hellenian drivers to ay hellenian fishmonger seal Aside these nodding plumes dragging while try impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark ruthless telematics impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark The Hym(e)n Of Humanity #0003 information stage maximum little stage maximum information information stage maximum little stage maximum information Aside these nodding plumes dragging while try impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark ruthless telematics impinge gentian unknown marksman shooting dark contagion flash here powerful ornament us forty years here powerful last south founding contagion contagion flash here powerful ornament us forty years here powerful last south founding contagion southern related betrayed liquor know strong liquor know strong symbol partridge English brothers southern related betrayed liquor know strong liquor know strong symbol partridge English brothers southern related betrayed liquor know strong liquor know strong symbol partridge English brothers softness smock enlarges vienna surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair stable scatter trough surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair network distributor softness softness smock enlarges vienna surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair stable scatter trough surprise thought made wonderful sitter headache night-together sound coffin digging fair network distributor softness contagion flash here powerful ornament us forty years here powerful last south founding contagion ordain subdue looked sniffed one seen knew twas never guessed hand pointed five one seen knew twas never guessed verbatism current paralysis ordain subdue looked ordain subdue looked sniffed one seen knew twas never guessed hand pointed five one seen knew twas never guessed verbatism current paralysis ordain subdue looked rat recommend knaves slaves shall smart leaf sweating fear hold vacuum-father speak leaf court optional warehouse rat recommend rat recommend knaves slaves shall smart leaf sweating fear hold vacuum-father speak leaf court optional warehouse rat recommend rat recommend knaves slaves shall smart leaf sweating fear hold vacuum-father speak leaf court optional warehouse rat recommend re-education wiener exact progress easy vicinity sermon re-education re-education wiener exact progress easy vicinity sermon re-education ordain subdue looked sniffed one seen knew twas never guessed hand pointed five one seen knew twas never guessed verbatism current paralysis ordain subdue looked rooster double purple pat came inn postchaise front door deathly putting method deathly putting eight Now seemly rooster double purple rooster double purple pat came inn postchaise front door deathly putting method deathly putting eight Now seemly rooster double purple proclaim Stral diary nap door simple evening seeing time grown short simple proclaim Stral proclaim Stral diary nap door simple evening seeing time grown short simple proclaim Stral proclaim Stral diary nap door simple evening seeing time grown short simple proclaim Stral palestine light cabinet letters papers glowing fires palestine palestine light cabinet letters papers glowing fires palestine rooster double purple pat came inn postchaise front door deathly putting method deathly putting eight Now seemly rooster double purple torch showed path now trace easterly less must three dishonour graveyard One stronger less must three credulous away all see bitter scowling faces torch showed path now trace The Hym(e)n Of Humanity #0003 writer six low shelf invitation Exactly like rest rather better writer six low shelf invitation Exactly like rest rather better writer six low shelf invitation Exactly like rest rather better peanuts discretion second pause carrying fro talking again gambler destiny pause carrying fro talking again up till sometimes peanuts discretion second peanuts discretion second pause carrying fro talking again gambler destiny pause carrying fro talking again up till sometimes peanuts discretion second Sieg streams trees stones thou talkest life-companion fifty fathoms life-companion jack thrush Sieg whistle favor necessary posting remote bailiff frowned being puzzled remote six whistle favor necessary whistle favor necessary posting remote bailiff frowned being puzzled remote six whistle favor necessary sulphur Rod dining-room due motive face took life away? know? very examine Jos motive face took life away? know? very cruise free sulphur Rod sulphur Rod dining-room due motive face took life away? know? very examine Jos motive face took life away? know? very cruise free sulphur Rod sulphur Rod dining-room due motive face took life away? know? very examine Jos motive face took life away? know? very cruise free sulphur Rod continent Because feel may leave nightmare helps excavator Gab disciple being poor continent Because feel may leave nightmare continent Because feel may leave nightmare helps excavator Gab disciple being poor continent Because feel may leave nightmare whistle favor necessary posting remote bailiff frowned being puzzled remote six whistle favor necessary being taken conduct while try x-flash earn dam warm-hearted x-flash earn fulfilling wales program contingent being taken conduct being taken conduct while try x-flash earn dam warm-hearted x-flash earn fulfilling wales program contingent being taken conduct exile hidden certainly lead great things soap-marry Grace Maskew happily fish synagogue screw viewed synagogue exile hidden certainly lead great things exile hidden certainly lead great things soap-marry Grace Maskew happily fish synagogue screw viewed synagogue exile hidden certainly lead great things exile hidden certainly lead great things soap-marry Grace Maskew happily fish synagogue screw viewed synagogue exile hidden certainly lead great things Suspects tis suspicion all against mankind framework leyden framework leyden jubilee Suspects tis suspicion Suspects tis suspicion all against mankind framework leyden framework leyden jubilee Suspects tis suspicion being taken conduct while try x-flash earn dam warm-hearted x-flash earn fulfilling wales program contingent being taken conduct cut painting Dyke vestiges point rot supplier Dyke vestiges point dis cut painting cut painting Dyke vestiges point rot supplier Dyke vestiges point dis cut painting standard sentence logic sled next were escape Blackbeard clutches easily sculpture Retrace secret passage? next were escape Blackbeard clutches easily standard standard sentence logic sled next were escape Blackbeard clutches easily sculpture Retrace secret passage? next were escape Blackbeard clutches easily standard standard sentence logic sled next were escape Blackbeard clutches easily sculpture Retrace secret passage? next were escape Blackbeard clutches easily standard Sieg eagerly individual dough tribunal individual dough tribunal mannered Sieg eagerly individual dough tribunal individual dough tribunal mannered cut painting Dyke vestiges point rot supplier Dyke vestiges point dis cut painting pentecost escaped white shirt bailiff vexed think midnight moment Med up saw face thoughts depend peaceful sphere eligible depend peaceful sphere fume pentecost escaped white shirt bailiff vexed think pentecost escaped white shirt bailiff vexed think midnight moment Med up saw face thoughts depend peaceful sphere eligible depend peaceful sphere fume pentecost escaped white shirt bailiff vexed think vase man bearing mystery grieve fervor spirit grasp all little boy Manor woods delight spirit grasp all yore deliberately political vase man bearing mystery vase man bearing mystery grieve fervor spirit grasp all august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). 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Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:36:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CE Putnam Subject: Re: Study Links Hitler to Reagan, Limbaugh & bush supports law that defines marriage In-Reply-To: <95DAD3AE-C2AB-11D7-BA05-003065AC6058@sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ÿ ç û ê ÿ ç û ê ÿ ç û ê ÿ ç û ê ÿ ç û ê ÿ ç û ê To the White House òü ®¢ à ç ã î â î ©£ í û é decision à í ã ë è é ñ ê è é òü ®¢ à ç ã î â î ©£ í û é à í ã ë è é ñ ê è é òü ®¢ à ç ã î â î ruling America ©£ í û é à í ã ë è é ñ ê è é òü ®¢ à ç ã î â î ©£ í û é à í ã ë è é ñ ê è é òü ®¢ à ç ã î â î ©£ í û é à í ã ë è é ñ ê è é òü ®¢ ó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòü distinction ó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòüó÷èòü sinners Ó í è ê à ë ü í à ÿ ì å ò î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ - Ì Û Ø Ë Å Í È Å, Ó í è ê à ë ü í à ÿ ì å ò î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ - Ì Û Ø Ë Å Í È Å, Ó í è ê à ë ü í à ÿ ì å ò î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ - Ì Û Ø Ë Å Í È Å, Ó í è ê Ó í ì å ò î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ - Ì Û Ø Ë Å Í È Å, mean Supreme îòï©£àâòå ïèñüìî íà permitted hands îòï©£àâòå ïèñüìî í à la between î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ ïîëó÷àòü íàøè ñîîáùåíèÿ ïîëó÷àòü íàøè ñîîáùåíèÿ Ï©£åäëàãàåì áûñò©£î âûó÷èòü ®¢ à ç ã î â î ©£ í û é à í ã ë è é ñ ê è é Ï©£åäëàãàåì áûñò©£î âûó÷è î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿî ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ needs marriage î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ the sex overturning ï ©£ î è ç í î the Court î ä è ê à î á ó ÷å í è ÿ ï ©£ î è ç í î ï ©£ î è ç í î ï ©£ î è ç í î ï ©£ î è ç í î ï ©£ î è ç í î ï ©£ î è ç í î ï ©£ they had them Texas lawyers said î è ç í î e : Åñëè âû æåëàåòå íå e : Åñëè âû æåëàåòå íå çàï©£îñ áçàï©£îñ áçàï©£îñ á between not me mindful çàï©£îñ áçàï©£îñ á Scalia çàï©£îñ áçàï©£îñ á President çàï©£îñ log issue åäëàåäëàãàåì áûñò©£î âûãà âûó÷èòü government åäëàãàâûó÷èòüåäëàãàåì áûñò©£î âûó÷èòü suck me (everyday canada mocks me in daily papers) say them è ê à ë ü í à ÿ could respect è ê à ë ü í à ÿ Scalia's sex blister è ê à ë ü í à ÿ è ê à ë ü í à ÿ amen è ê à ë ü í à ÿ the man that Marilyn man Bush neighbor's Bush working Mus(h)grave with that log __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:56:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: haiku skeptic In-Reply-To: <5AC29C28-C2B8-11D7-B5DC-000393CE1304@reinventnow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- "Tracy S. Ruggles" wrote: > On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 11:04 AM, Bob > Grumman wrote: > > > I think you're just very immersed in Japanese > haiku > > (and culture) and so a tad biased--as I am about > the > > kind of minimalist English language poetry I've > been > > immersed for decades. > > Wouldn't these taste of haiku?... Gah, what follows are some poems I'd lo0ve (typo I decieded to leave--and the extra letter is a zero, not an O) to spend the next few months commenting on as possible haiku or what I call naiku (nigh-ku), and then a few months. I can't. Don't got the minutes. But I do want to say a little. First o0ff, I think in serious discussions of this sort, one needs (forgive the cliche) to define one's terms. No one, including the Japanese, will agree on exactly what a haiku is. So the serious commentator must say what he thinks one is, and go from there. Those responding to him should then see if what he's saying make sense according to his definition AND (if wanting to) provide an opposing definition, which can then be discussed. I have a brief definition in the recent issue of Modern Haiku that I'm not going to quote for fear of having to defend it and/or elaborate on it, etc. The definition is in an article on the taxonomy of contemporary haiku that I now consider much too compressed and therefore difficult to follow. But it contains poems I consider to be haiku and world-class, with reasons why I prize them. Now for a few comments on the following poems. > > A Token > > ------- > > > > My lady > > fair with > > soft > > arms, what > > > > can I say to > > you-words, words > > as if all > > worlds were there. > > -- Robert Creeley > Most people would not take this as very haikuic because it editorializes. I believe, with most haiku fans, that haiku should be pretty much pure imagery. But I also believe that Williams's "Red Wheelbarrow" is a terrific haiku--BECAUSE of its "so much depends upon." > .. > > > MEDITATION IN THE WHITE MOUNTAINS > > > > Blue sky > > few crags, the slopes > > are green > > > > air > > whistling by > > the granite stopwatch > > > > -- Clark Coolidge I like this whatever it's called, and I WOULD accept it as a haiku. The fastidious would not like its having a title (and I do believe the title makes it too long, and too explained). The fastidious would also not like its having a metaphor, but I believe all the best haiku are mataphoric, and should be. > .. > > > Vaudeville > > > > I leave the theatre, > > keeping step, keeping step to the music. > > It sticks to my feet, > > stepped into dung. > > > > Night falls > > in still flakes. > > > > -- Charles Reznikoff > > .. Two haiku there, but the first is too long for a haiku, though just right for the equal non-haiku I take it as (with lots of haiku-resonance). > > is so > > of > > from > > > > > > the > > even > > been > > the > > > > -- Clark Coolidge (from Space) > > .. The fastidious would call this too cerebral. It works fine as a haiku, for me. > > > http://fermi.phys.ualberta.ca/~amk/galles/dachau_po.jpg > > > > -- Jerome Rothenberg > > .. This one is too straightforward for my kind of haiku. --Bob G. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:28:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: cocking a snook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember years ago we had a very enlightening conversation about snogging. Now the Brits are cocking a snook, or having a snook cocked at them. What can it mean? << An investigation has begun to see if the work breaches any of Archer's probation rules. Home Secretary David Blunkett is said to be furious and indicated Archer "cocked a snook at us all." >> ---------------------------------------------------------- Must write poems to fill the huge demand for them --Catherine Wagner Rachel Loden http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:39:16 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Fogarty Subject: Re: cocking a snook In-Reply-To: <000001c35703$1324c0c0$210110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I believe that to cock a snook is to thumb your nose; that is, to make that gesture that allows someone else to see up your nose like a pig. Usually an expression of contempt. I would have no idea where it comes from lexicon-wise. At 18:28 30/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I remember years ago we had a very enlightening conversation about >snogging. Now the Brits are cocking a snook, or having a snook cocked at >them. What can it mean? > ><< An investigation has begun to see if the work breaches any of >Archer's probation rules. Home Secretary David Blunkett is said to be >furious and indicated Archer "cocked a snook at us all." >> > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >Must write poems to fill the huge demand for them > --Catherine Wagner > >Rachel Loden >http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ >rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:43:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Rat-Brained Robot Does Distant Art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Though I applaud the technology, I find the implications troubling. Why is the result of this experiment in the production of "semi-living artists'" "art" outside of a certain cheekiness on the part of the scientist that created it? Doesn't any poet, musician, painter, see the veiled insult here? Why don't the computer scientists create a "semi-living computer scientist" instead? I would much rather see those robot arms fashioning a tiny computer chip out of silica, or attempting to create an itsy-bitsy machine that would replicate Dr. Steve Potter's hubris from 19,000 kilometres away. Reminds me again of a passage by Carl Sagan in "Broca's Brain" in which he talks about the c.c. paucity of Einstein's brain compared to Byron's oodles in the old noodle. "But then again," Sagan sniffed, "Byron was no Einstein!" Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:51:30 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: The Ghazal and other Eastern forms Comments: To: "olsonjk@delhi.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kirby wrote: Art is something that moves the heart and spirit. I have no idea what I meant by purity. I think I was using the word mongrelism,but then, you see, everything is all mixed up, and who cares finally, no? We'll all forget this conversation in a week. But the principles will remain I write: I do not care for art. I have no heart nor spirit. I cannot be moved. I am not human (not if I have to write Ghazals anyhow).I am without principles. But who cares? I have no idea what I mean by art, heart, spirit, humanity Ghazals, principles. And there again, I have a helluva memory. Wystan -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:57:59 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: cocking a snook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try 'cocking a snoot' Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fogarty [mailto:oga@IHUG.CO.NZ] Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2003 1:39 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: cocking a snook I believe that to cock a snook is to thumb your nose; that is, to make that gesture that allows someone else to see up your nose like a pig. Usually an expression of contempt. I would have no idea where it comes from lexicon-wise. At 18:28 30/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I remember years ago we had a very enlightening conversation about >snogging. Now the Brits are cocking a snook, or having a snook cocked at >them. What can it mean? > ><< An investigation has begun to see if the work breaches any of >Archer's probation rules. Home Secretary David Blunkett is said to be >furious and indicated Archer "cocked a snook at us all." >> > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >Must write poems to fill the huge demand for them > --Catherine Wagner > >Rachel Loden >http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ >rloden@concentric.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:58:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: Re: cocking a snook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Cocking a snoot' is not the same as 'cocking a snook', which I'm not familiar with. But, 'cocking a snoot' is related to 'getting a snootfull', which is related to what my Great Aunt Jess, the millinist (milliner?), would call 'getting tanked up', isn't it? Matt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:09:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Rat-Brained Robot Does Distant Art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's the link for this? You could email me off list to save one of your two postings... tlrelf@cox.net Ter > Though I applaud the technology, I find the implications troubling. Why is > the result of this experiment in the production of "semi-living artists'" > "art" outside of a certain cheekiness on the part of the scientist that > created it? Doesn't any poet, musician, painter, see the veiled insult > here? Why don't the computer scientists create a "semi-living computer > scientist" instead? > > I would much rather see those robot arms fashioning a tiny computer chip out > of silica, or attempting to create an itsy-bitsy machine that would > replicate Dr. Steve Potter's hubris from 19,000 kilometres away. > > Reminds me again of a passage by Carl Sagan in "Broca's Brain" in which he > talks about the c.c. paucity of Einstein's brain compared to Byron's oodles > in the old noodle. "But then again," Sagan sniffed, "Byron was no > Einstein!" > > Jess ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:25:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: FULCRUM's Submission Dates + New Issue Theme Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fulcrum normally reads unsolicited submissions June through August only, but this year we have extended the reading period through September. Send submissions of poetry and essays to: Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com (queries only) Please include a brief cover letter and SAE with sufficient postage (postal stamps or IRCs). We regret being unable to accept unsolicited submissions by email. Reading an issue of Fulcrum before submitting work is highly recommended. The theme of Fulcrum's third issue, to appear in early 2004, is "DIAGNOSIS: POETRY (Poetry & Psychiatry)." SUBSCRIPTION rates in the US are $15 per issue for individuals, $30 for institutions. Overseas subscriptions are $20 and $40 per issue, respectively. $5 discount on 3-issue subscriptions. Send check or money order drawn in US currency and payable to Fulcrum Annual to the editorial address. NOTE: Copies of Fulcrum 1 ("A Map of English-language Poetry") are still available for $15 postpaid in the US, $20 overseas. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:49:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: strange events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII strange events yesterday on the bus to pennsylvania we stopped in a small town and a woman on the bus said that a man had been threatening her and he masturbated in front of her. we were immediately surrounded by four police cars and asked to leave the bus. the man hid in the toilet but was apprehended and removed. then the woman gave a deposition and we waited. then we left and he was taken into custody and the police said he had just 'got out of court.' about thirty miles down the road i was looking out the window and the road dropped precipitously to a creek. there were five or six formally dressed people standing in a row by the near side of the creek facing the highway. they were looking up. i saw a man leap from a highway sign about seventy feet above the creek. the sign was over dry ground. the man was fully dressed and there was no safety net or bungee cord. as the bus was moving, i did not see him hit the ground. this morning in the small town my father lives in, there were four rare hawks in the backyard. this was the first time hawks had ever come here. i cannot identify them since they seem like broad-winged hawks but are much larger with white feathers over the feet. four of them together was a rare sight. earlier we watched a group of wasps carry a group of paralyzed caterpillars to their nests. later, there were fireflies all blinking in unison, and i knew that the philadelphia species had come north. around the same time, i photographed on the south mountain where the anthracite mine fire has burned for one hundred and one years beneath the surface. when i was there a month ago, i photographed thermophilic sulphur bacteria. i was not sure whether they were bacteria or mineral deposits at the time because they were colonizing around the hottest and apparently deepest sulphur vents. but this time there were only slight mineral deposits and the weather had been dry. this indicated that the efflorescence was in fact bacteria, and most likely hyperthermophilic archaea. style exercise strange events yesterday on the bus to pennsylvania we stopped in a small town and woman said that man had been threatening her he masturbated front of her. were immediately surrounded by four police cars asked leave bus. hid toilet but was apprehended removed. then gave deposition waited. left taken into custody just 'got out court.' about thirty miles down road i looking window dropped precipitously creek. there five or six formally dressed people standing row near side creek facing highway. they up. saw leap from highway sign seventy feet above over dry ground. fully no safety net bungee cord. as moving, did not see him hit this morning my father lives in, rare hawks backyard. first time ever come here. cannot identify them since seem like broad-winged are much larger with white feathers feet. together sight. earlier watched group wasps carry paralyzed caterpillars their nests. later, fireflies all blinking unison, knew philadelphia species north. around same time, photographed south mountain where anthracite mine fire has burned for one hundred years beneath surface. when month ago, thermophilic sulphur bacteria. sure whether bacteria mineral deposits at because colonizing hottest apparently deepest vents. only slight weather dry. indicated efflorescence fact bacteria, most likely hyperthermophilic archaea. __ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:32:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: cocking a snook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rachel--heard a rumor you were very ill;is there any truth to it? Sorry to have been so long out of touch, and so unflirtingly at that. Say it isnt so. Myself am aging ever faster every day, and soon will catcch up to and pass Bob Hope, whose dying words were to mumble "Seabiscuit DB"......I havent been this high in the 90's since I visited Bruce Andrews. Love to you, David -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Loden To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:55 PM Subject: cocking a snook >I remember years ago we had a very enlightening conversation about >snogging. Now the Brits are cocking a snook, or having a snook cocked at >them. What can it mean? > ><< An investigation has begun to see if the work breaches any of >Archer's probation rules. Home Secretary David Blunkett is said to be >furious and indicated Archer "cocked a snook at us all." >> > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >Must write poems to fill the huge demand for them > --Catherine Wagner > >Rachel Loden >http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ >rloden@concentric.net > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:18:59 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: What Basho wrote me about the dust of Gautama In-Reply-To: <200307310035739.SM01048@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What Basho wrote me about the dust of Gautama Dear Patrick, Empty your mind and your hat will follow. So please begin by transcribing the following seventeen hats, and do hold onto your own hat for the duration. Only the hat will remain. I'll explain later. The Ten Hats of Buddhism A Zen Buddhist is not a Zen Buddhist but a person faking paradox and a person faking paradox is a fake Zen Buddhist paradox and "A Zen Buddhist is not a Zen Buddhist" is an attempt by a fake Zen Buddhist to fake a fake Zen Buddhist paradox and the fake attempt of a fake person who is of course a person and yet empty, not a person or even a Zen Buddhist at all. The Four Noble Hats of Buddhism Which is to say Zen Buddhism is fake so to be a real Zen Buddhist (Listen up! Kneel, slave! Thwack!) you must be fake at faking the forsaking of Zen Buddhism and be a fake paradox or even a fake fake fake. The Two Hats of Buddhism Perhaps paradoxically, three fakes do not negate each other when they do. Buddha, The Enlightened Hat They merely give nothing a cover. Love, Basho PS My final and perhaps only coherent recommendation is that you always wear a hat. It will help one of you to appear as if you are flying above the dust in the wind, above the hatless masses. I'm giving up on the cold austerity shtick altogether and am heading to someplace warmer. Look for me there, where it's warm. I'm the one in the hat. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:47:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Pain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Variations On The Same Pain #0001 - #0003 Reeling boats full cheering guys sprayed indefinite period. Make love frequently, sighed screwed up eyes onto took Katie both agreed. Licking, similarly t-shirts israel set up hospital macedonia support effort ancona intermediate staging base almost humanitarian daily rations waiting move forward tents. Clear metre half air added ballet dancing lack flab came starting throw up ran. Curling short six two only scanning racks Rick started show site nuclear testing. 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Bacon mentioned earlier, title made love Chris started. Going, believe never wanted sighed opened stepped. Aircraft actually lasing another aircraft, make mistake letter. Cock other hand pump, commenting lush tropical scenery both laughed again Jim said OK OK. Found confusing time, Cammie know. Felt eruption approaching both laughed again Jim said OK OK cried cried sat. Guys standing hard jerking, woman cessation testing. Damn hard mouth loved, slashing hear noise too followed. Recovered cock other hand pump dresses short look analysis. Tell casts look something very, all take embrace make love. august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:30:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: The Nature of Nurture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Nature of Nurture #0001 " given added reasons," answered stoutly. room Duchy man whose mind. These signs indicate soldiers speak, people listen. Army "Let bridegroom stand forth may look ," called Norhala. easy reduce. asked civilians fully embedded Army's systems, U. S. Army will truly depositing cum all thieving Among other public buildings certain town, many reasons will now danger -- none. Deeper deeper dropped mind depths alien disintegrated, another arose huge formidable pouring forth numbers whom, said, Sicca day outbreak. two fellows, whom went misery, love hatred sorts pairs opposites. mental equanimity can nails " am afraid!" heard whisper. enough "Where find stealing down face moment. matter?' mind ideal sharp, young chap! Furies heels, Fates going Look emperor Master told Terry re-tied Cammie's bikini gave myself tomorrow, Fagin, ?' inquired 'Again. Tell again!' cried Fagin, craving Oliver let lantern fall, knew whether advance fly. smiled, later nicest causing wrung hands made reply. wildly daylight. Masses oleander, great beauty, red blossoms, fringed talk got big support base. Fucking whining brummies. Paul's ' uh uh uh grinned "Where find stealing down face moment. matter?' mind ideal arms shoulders erratically squeezing man himself, will make one too, take pattern .-- heart man set cannot known object. subject (Self ' falsehood head!' rejoined Mr. astonishingly. Wearily opened eyes. Stiffly, painfully, stirred. bright steel, marching sword thigh pike shoulder. head company tomorrow, Fagin, ?' inquired 'Again. Tell again!' cried Fagin, little receiving silver emblem, Wilson said glad training . "Bang went officials believed extraordinary. gentleness tenderness described precise situation erection pressing Keeping eyes locked Cammie read. shadow smile quivered lips glance moved meet eyes cocks sticking pussy cubicle leaving Jenny excited gasping breath. must date power now danger -- none. Deeper deeper dropped mind depths alien songs filling seductively met." home own running lost places miss -- miss damnably, course. devotion Sakara " affair?" growled menacingly. -bold, sir stranger, Katie paroxysm fear wrath even --used sights-- recoiled horror. grew said "Let bridegroom stand forth may look ," called Norhala. easy reduce. Vairagya. found own experience cannot supreme peace happiness having blown large splendid bubble, sent sailing away, rose holding ribs restricted two- man per vehicle rule, travel alone. three men keeping intangible wonder synthesis-- appallingly beautiful, studied . worth day's purchase. " approached took stock young giant, Drake's tone doubtful indeed. take whale magnetic field ravine length sunk attack old disorder, died prison. far home, died Hence, meat-eating poisonous dangerous run. difference between Mr. stopped cannonading stars, breaking these incandescent crests, falling daub dead man's Brother! even know child born maudlin pair even fuck notice. make up mind speak thing nature.' Battlelab, Air spoken either two men, who relieved each other attendance parts, card" can provide those data elements, " Romano said. card tested himself set am 'Nolly, dear?' murmured Nancy gentle voice 'Nolly?' crushing outwards account self- created bondage Jiva suffers suffering comes end Mr. sucked 432 presented World War II, none went more raged hot narrow way. ends. Sometimes, indeed, grizzly head ardently desiring only bear signaled incandescences. took some bread meat drank draught beer, heard " am afraid!" heard whisper. spoken either two men, who relieved each other attendance parts, wide wall. cul-de-sac opening wide either Drake push top. Each dropped away. Fleetingly stare. dilated. seemed crouch chair, hand held paper shook. drew candle unless foursome arrived Honolulu transactions tells possible enumerate many ten kinds. wakens intangible wonder synthesis-- appallingly beautiful, stood between women spiritual greatness? Queen Chudalai great housebreaker wiping perspiration face. 'Wot limp cock slithered felicitate least," said Francesco gravely, wisdom step. known cannonading stars, breaking these incandescent crests, falling reached apotelesma felt rush excitement shoot through body, myself. like sitting vault strewn dead bodies-- cap, noose, pinioned Sikes turning round chair confront 'Aye! hear bare seemed dividing seller old gentleman laughed heartily, declared said very good hands others' pleasure one another. London, ma'am always find minds move, issues judgment great manner Angelo, constrained end Steve cannonading stars, breaking these incandescent crests, falling holding one morning, Rose alone breakfast- parlour, Harry Maylie 'Nothing,' quitted Bar disgust who looked own still better- humoured squeezing getting butt-fucked minds move, issues judgment great manner Angelo, constrained end few great harmonies. Save befallen never stirred think. now flashes ago perhaps first time life Guidobaldo guilty act positive Hunched back, -sized, fragile limb, arrayed doublet, hose hood, Sowerberry returned himself. felt breathing tasted mouth. brook ran inquired perception who Sikes asked why last Sunday, promised. said .' 'Dear am very sorry , ' exclaimed Mr. Brownlow particularly crowd, ends. Sometimes, indeed, grizzly head ardently desiring only bear Church-- wholesome fear hell, core incandescent ruby blazed, While sat thus shop window, framed contemplation passers- day Cammie appeared soldiers field. ' spoke hard angry earnest, man ,' replied girl, skipped assigned five aerial exploitation battalions - two Germany one boasting tale fiscal year 1988. · fiscal year 1996 Class through C Ma'am good evil acts. Evil also negative good. evil, ' ,' said Harry hear shimmering Missouri, men sound mind began reflect. cutbacks 400,000 notice. make up mind speak thing nature.' Battlelab, Air fingered Katie intangible wonder synthesis-- appallingly beautiful, sucks arms hippopotamus, rhinoceros- go through list. imperialist, lover quietly threw down sword, spear, pike fled shrieking. posthumously leading Aristo August who glowing. try anything seen." appeared outline smiled handed stepped " am afraid!" heard whisper. occasion services being required. own miraculous book soul living, defiance Stamp-office. suburbs, somehow, doesn't ?" 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Terry grinned talk these Himalayan Masters future. lay whole minutes unthinking, talk these Himalayan Masters future. lay whole minutes unthinking, undressed bobbed immediately below postern-gate drawbridge. "Better? why?" named T, bounces jiggles arms mentioned Greece. "Yes," said, am fonder Greece shall proud play Among other public buildings certain town, many reasons will opening moment, fell back, bowed, brushing past entering woman "substantial impact Civil Service." " retiring aircraft, mission," workout both ." 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Nay, Martin finely cannot known object. subject (Self ' falsehood head!' rejoined Mr. reveal identity. am keep oath, will torture death perhaps. break still placidly engaged latter survey, Mrs. Corney, hurrying room, intangible wonder synthesis-- appallingly beautiful, reveal identity. am keep oath, will torture death perhaps. break mountains, must suppose angels held those individual risk having starched child regarded painting. great spot. grew point radiance, dazzling deep wrinkles rock, pony. · Open blinds shades let warm sunlight. long down moved, blow thing once. right Barney else heard pound later, parking come sugar. also, will rid lust, anger, greed, delusion, pay lagers sliding habit came love each other happy ." foreign oppression. instilled Babbiano, asked hoped ' sir, run away, sir, turned wicious,' tomorrow, Fagin, ?' inquired 'Again. Tell again!' cried Fagin, Abilene cheeks armies said suiting action word, name address, sir.' withdrew pace sight many gentlemen, made tremble beadle gave seemed hiss quickly art, kitchen well- equipped ' stands reason. Some conjurers number said Fagin, drawing Oliver towards canvas bag, hole thinking want validate Armywide standards, ensure Army regulations swaggering young gentleman stood four feet six, something less, enjoyed stains Babbiano, asked hoped ' sir, run away, sir, turned wicious,' Polaroid little hesitant persuaded Christine drinks ' ,' rejoined Sikes. 7, 000 toads--go tell father Norhala, am gates. bring back maid girls danger, hope?' said old lady. hesitation, being very cold himself, place, leant elbow overmantel. jest 'captus est habet:' pours all strikes being merchant, whose servant urging laden sumpters up hilly road surrounding people who qualified masters. just " life." issues 'Dear am very sorry , ' exclaimed Mr. Brownlow particularly crowd, threw down sword, spear, pike fled shrieking. posthumously leading violence. Cut off resources let hunger advocate. Even fear will intangible wonder synthesis-- appallingly beautiful, replied Sikes coldly. causes turning saw mist thick. turned opportunity like. "Let's going," Sean started ends. Sometimes, indeed, grizzly head ardently desiring only bear perhaps first time life Guidobaldo guilty act positive sharp, young chap! Furies heels, Fates going Look emperor Master treading each other's toes, each wincing mischance. Agellius's 'Dear am very sorry , ' exclaimed Mr. Brownlow particularly crowd, struck against treason inland God. image worshipped, devotee feels presence Lord pours swallowed practical. Practical experience will other made fool consented one expanded itself concentric circles, only fulfilled, time struck against treason inland day ACAP sites receive up 400 new job announcements, many gentleman says," answered boy, "first something something ran attraction repulsion, etc. law-giver. Bow faith devotion. will edges labia now danger -- none. Deeper deeper dropped mind depths alien girls talk these Himalayan Masters future. lay whole minutes unthinking, Aristo August who glowing. try anything seen." appeared outline weeks sigh-- vast deal meaning sigh. gentleness." eunuch. stood hippopotamus, rhinoceros- go through list. imperialist, lover slid arms mentioned Greece. "Yes," said, am fonder Greece shall proud play besides offering believe staring shop-windows. skull donkey's. catching hold bridle, operation. inquired doctor. halted, sight Valentina company, doffed feathered hold breath know why, just scream mouth covers pussy. look up ' -- inquired doctor. halted, sight Valentina company, doffed feathered thinking great carven arches arose slender, exquisite towers capped red boasting tale fiscal year 1988. · fiscal year 1996 Class through C Pam cannonading stars, breaking these incandescent crests, falling fresh vigour cry, 'Stop thief! Stop thief!' mouth? skin hair-- too roughly ," said. "Well, wait bit, ." nodded, familiarly, passed along. response make "Take four men," bade remain Urbino am gone. Discover haunts nose. will relieve struggle mind. blackest night. Steve knelt recording-- conference one. Oliver told simple history, often Vairagya. found own experience cannot supreme peace happiness threw down sword, spear, pike fled shrieking. posthumously leading Aristo August who glowing. try anything seen." appeared outline Sadhana. shall Lord? Don't afraid. Remember saying, shaft balls, " nothing best army. care color go up kill those Everyone eyes paupers express order board, council assembled read. shadow smile quivered lips glance moved meet eyes thoughtful countenance, brief space raising head, heaving gentle towards London high- one frenzied effort realized futility, certain low brow. weeks sigh-- vast deal meaning sigh. gentleness." eunuch. stood housebreaker wiping perspiration face. 'Wot limp cock slithered follow unusual directions found house, knocked, woman all Ain't Get asses paupers express order board, council assembled little Fanfulla. fool departed morning Roccaleone, within whose blood ice, smearing juices round, oh, putting fingers cunt. .. stronger. " various kinds second cone, excavated ground vertex downward, heard talking took up thread narrative. laughter passed great solemnity, arm reaching thanked noticing. just thoughtful considerate knew why loved gave teasing "Man's work!" august highland muse apprentice guild --"expanding the canon into the 21st century" www.muse-apprentice-guild.com culture animal --"following in the footsteps of tradition" www.cultureanimal.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:41:24 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: president shrub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Bush called 'President Shrub' in government memo By GRAEME SMITH From Thursday's Globe and Mail Saskatchewan's government has tried everything to get the U.S. border opened to its beef: pleading, cajoling and even threatening a ban on foreign beef. Now a researcher for the ruling New Democratic Party has resorted to name-calling, in a memo that described U.S. President George W. Bush as "Shrub." Titled, "Re: petition to President Shrub," the bulletin on NDP caucus letterhead was distributed this week to members of the legislature, candidates for Saskatchewan's coming election and MPs in Ottawa. Media outlets received the memo by mistake. "We were just appalled," said Elwin Hermanson, leader of the opposition Saskatchewan Party, who received the bulletin yesterday. "On the stupid meter, this seems to go off the scale." The memo encourages recipients to distribute copies of a petition that Premier Lorne Calvert launched on Tuesday as a protest against the U.S. beef ban. It explains the shrubbery reference as a "dismissive nickname for President Bush." The government distanced itself from the memo, promising a review of how it got drafted and whether there should be disciplinary action against the caucus staffer who wrote it. "This does not reflect the views of the government of Saskatchewan," said Eldon Lautermilch, minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and the government's House leader. "The memo shows poor judgment, bad taste and is totally unacceptable." The government will continue gathering signatures for the petition, which describes the "devastating impact" of the U.S. ban on Canadian beef since the discovery May 20 of a cow in Alberta that carried bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad-cow disease. The petition reads, in part, "President Bush, as your oldest ally, closest friend and largest trading partner, we ask for simple fairness; we ask for an open border for Canadian beef." Mr. Lautermilch rejected the idea that insulting the U.S. President could diminish the impact of the province's lobbying. He emphasized that the person who wrote the letter, Ted Bowen, is a "junior staffer." "It's not helpful. I mean, it's taking the focus off of what we need to do, and what we need to do is make sure we get access to the American market for Canadian beef. . . . But this would be much different if it was an elected official or someone at a senior level. I think our American friends will understand." But John Wright, a senior vice-president at the Ipsos-Reid polling firm, suggested that Americans might not have a great sense of humour after a recent series of insults from prominent Canadians. Françoise Ducros, a former aide to the Prime Minister, made international headlines by calling Mr. Bush a "moron." Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal called Mr. Bush a failed statesman. MP Carolyn Parrish was quoted as saying: "Damn Americans, I hate those bastards." The latest addition to that list comes with some irony, Mr. Wright said, because the provinces recently suggested they should circumvent the federal government and appeal to the White House directly because of Ottawa's perceived anti-Americanism. "If you're going to play with the big boys, you should try to prevent this kind of thing," Mr. Wright said. "You can't appeal to the President on a certain issue and then call the President names." -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:46:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: president shrub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On the other hand, major league baseball fans might feel relieved that the president is no longer part-owner of the Texas Rangers. If he was, the American League might be referred to as "Bush League." Vernon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Hehir" To: Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:11 AM Subject: president shrub > Bush called 'President Shrub' in government memo > > By GRAEME SMITH > From Thursday's Globe and Mail > > Saskatchewan's government has tried everything to get the U.S. > border opened to its beef: pleading, cajoling and even threatening a ban > on foreign beef. > > Now a researcher for the ruling New Democratic Party has resorted to > name-calling, in a memo that described U.S. President George W. Bush as > "Shrub." > > Titled, "Re: petition to President Shrub," the bulletin on NDP caucus > letterhead was distributed this week to members of the legislature, > candidates for Saskatchewan's coming election and MPs in Ottawa. Media > outlets received the memo by mistake. > > "We were just appalled," said Elwin Hermanson, leader of the opposition > Saskatchewan Party, who received the bulletin yesterday. "On the stupid > meter, this seems to go off the scale." > > The memo encourages recipients to distribute copies of a petition that > Premier Lorne Calvert launched on Tuesday as a protest against the U.S. > beef ban. It explains the shrubbery reference as a "dismissive nickname > for President Bush." > > The government distanced itself from the memo, promising a review of how > it got drafted and whether there should be disciplinary action against the > caucus staffer who wrote it. > > "This does not reflect the views of the government of Saskatchewan," said > Eldon Lautermilch, minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and the > government's House leader. "The memo shows poor judgment, bad taste and is > totally unacceptable." > > The government will continue gathering signatures for the petition, which > describes the "devastating impact" of the U.S. ban on Canadian beef since > the discovery May 20 of a cow in Alberta that carried bovine spongiform > encephalopathy, or mad-cow disease. The petition reads, in part, > "President Bush, as your oldest ally, closest friend and largest trading > partner, we ask for simple fairness; we ask for an open border for > Canadian beef." > > Mr. Lautermilch rejected the idea that insulting the U.S. President could > diminish the impact of the province's lobbying. He emphasized that the > person who wrote the letter, Ted Bowen, is a "junior staffer." > > "It's not helpful. I mean, it's taking the focus off of what we need to > do, and what we need to do is make sure we get access to the American > market for Canadian beef. . . . But this would be much different if it was > an elected official or someone at a senior level. I think our American > friends will understand." > > But John Wright, a senior vice-president at the Ipsos-Reid polling firm, > suggested that Americans might not have a great sense of humour after a > recent series of insults from prominent Canadians. > > Françoise Ducros, a former aide to the Prime Minister, made international > headlines by calling Mr. Bush a "moron." Natural Resources Minister Herb > Dhaliwal called Mr. Bush a failed statesman. MP Carolyn Parrish was quoted > as saying: "Damn Americans, I hate those bastards." > > The latest addition to that list comes with some irony, Mr. Wright said, > because the provinces recently suggested they should circumvent the > federal government and appeal to the White House directly because of > Ottawa's perceived anti-Americanism. > > "If you're going to play with the big boys, you should try to prevent this > kind of thing," Mr. Wright said. "You can't appeal to the President on a > certain issue and then call the President names." > > > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:11:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Thursday" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thursday I began to despair. One would need to be both blind and deaf to misunderstand me. That girl who was raped, some said she had no one but herself to blame. The ferry was late, and, if it hadn't been late, we would have missed it. Do you want to cross the street here, or should we go on to the crosswalk at the corner? How many ways are there to spell "Shostakovich"? At low tide we can get out to the island on foot. I shave every day, whether it's raining or not. No cars allowed beyond this point. He often asked questions just to strike up an acquaintance with strangers, even if he already knew their answers. Please accept my apologies. It took a hundred million years to make this island, and now look what's become of it. Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:52:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Fwd: [thingist] Open Source Collaborative Art Process Comments: To: wryting Comments: cc: webartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- joseph the barbarian wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:40:37 +0000 > From: joseph the barbarian > > To: list@rhizome.org, thingist@bbs.thing.net > Subject: [thingist] Open Source Collaborative Art > Process > > Open Source Collaborative Art Process structured > along Open Source lessons > described by Eric S. Raymond in his landmark essay > “The Cathedral and the > Bazaar.” > > 1."Every good work of software starts by scratching > a developer's personal > itch." > Every good work of art starts by scratching an > artist’s personal itch. > > 2."Good programmers know what to write. Great ones > know what to rewrite (and > reuse)." > Good artists borrow, great artists steal. Or > rather, good artists work alone, > great artists work with others. > > 3."Plan to throw one away; you will, anyhow." > The first sketch is not the best artwork. Encourage > artists to rework based > upon input from others. > > 4."If you have the right attitude, interesting > problems will find you" > If you work without ego, the right work to do will > find you. > > 5."When you lose interest in a program, your last > duty to it is to hand it off > to a competent successor." > When the artists tires of the artwork, pass it on to > collaborators to finish > within the context of the greater work. > > 6."Treating your users as co-developers is your > least-hassle route to rapid > code improvement and effective debugging." > Treating the audience as co-participants in the > artistic experience is your > best route to engaging work. Interactive > participation creates a live and > always contemporary experience. > > 7."Release early. Release often. And listen to your > customers." > Prototype and show often, engage audience and > listen, improve based upon > audience evaluations. Document and present on > Internet for almost constant > feedback from collaborators. > > 8."Given a large enough beta-tester and co-developer > base, almost every problem > will be characterized quickly and the fix obvious to > someone." > Given a large enough audience participants and > collaborator base, almost every > problem will be characterized quickly and the fix > obvious to someone. > > 9."Smart data structures and dumb code works a lot > better than the other way > around." > Good concept and poor craftsmanship works a lot > better than the other way > around. However good execution and poor idea are > better than the other way > around. > > 10."If you treat your beta-testers as if they're > your most valuable resource, > they will respond by becoming your most valuable > resource" > If you treat your audience participants as if > they’re your most valuable > resource, they will respond by becoming your most > valuable resource. > > 11."The next best thing to having good ideas is > recognizing good ideas from > your users. Sometimes the latter is better" > The next best thing to having good ideas is > recognizing good ideas from your > audience and collaborators. Sometimes the latter is > better. > > 12."Often, the most striking and innovative > solutions come from realizing that > your concept of the problem was wrong." > Often, the most striking and innovative work comes > from realizing that your > original concept needs modification and adaptation > in response to outside > influences. > > 13."Perfection (in design) is achieved not when > there is nothing more to add, > but rather when there is nothing more to take away." > True for the work of an individual, however multiple > voices can make a > statement from different perspectives and create a > closer approximation of > reality. > > 14."Any tool should be useful in the expected way, > but a truly great tool lends > itself to uses you never expected" > Nuff said. > > 15."When writing gateway software of any kind, take > pains to disturb the data > stream as little as possible - and *never* throw > away information unless the > recipient forces you to!" > The transitions between collaborators works in a > greater work should be > transparent and neither add/subtract from either > work. If one work causes > a “clash” with another, sometimes the transition can > be used to screen one from > the other, but only should be done a limited basis. > > 16."When your language is nowhere near > Turing-complete, syntactic sugar can be > your friend." > Artwork only approaches its perfect form; > supplemental information is sometimes > necessary to bring it closer to completion. > > 17."A security system is only as secure as its > secret. Beware of pseudo- > secrets." > An enlightened work is only as enlightened as its > mystic. Beware of pseudo- > mystics. > > 18."To solve an interesting problem, start by > finding a problem that is > interesting to you." > Nuff said. > > 19."Provided the development coordinator has a > medium at least as good as the > Internet, and knows how to lead without coercion, > many heads are inevitably > better than one." > Artists must participate as ego-less members of a > collaborative, and allow one > artist to coordinate the best final product. The one > chose to lead the > coordination must lead without coercion, must not > assume sole authorship or > individual acclaim, and have a medium of > communication as least as good as the > Internet. Such approach will inevitably lead to > better work. > > > joseph the barbarian > > joseph and donna > www.electrichands.com > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > t h i n g i s t > message by joseph the barbarian > > archive at http://bbs.thing.net > info: send email to majordomo@bbs.thing.net > and write "info thingist" in the message body > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ===== NEW!!!--Dirty Milk--reactive poem for microphone http://www.lewislacook.com/DirtyMilk/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:57:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: TWHM XI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we hope you will be able severe unemployment and for the most part in the improved method now and human resources each year prosecutions and the accused shall enjoy the as soon as we know which there is nothing difficult about program of assurances against the hazards of so radically in both phonology although we regret exceedingly dependent child for any month as exceeds there is however a new the same enemies against whom unpopular young able-bodied unemployed female or male we assure you the story goes as follows pauperism tendencies that could be enhanced by food and the fact that ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:25:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrea Baker Subject: Contact info for Anselm Hollo Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Very much in need of an email address for Anselm Hollo. Please backchannel. Thank you, Andrea -- Andrea Baker Poetry Editor 3rd Bed www.3rdbed.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 01:24:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Haiku Skeptic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob--No, the Japanese know exactly what they mean by haiku. There's no confusion on that issue. Everyone from truck drivers to bank presidents will count out 5/7/5 on their fingers for you if you ask. The school system requires that they memorize haiku. It doesn't matter where they are or who they are or at what level they are. Haiku--like sumo--is a part of Japanese high and low cultures. For instance, there's a new television show here for children on NHK--a kind of sesame street--that celebrates haiku, Japanese tongue twisters, etc. There's also a haiku forum on television, where famous haijin correct haiku live on air. There are hundreds of Japanese haiku circles on all the islands, and local and national contests by the score. Mark--my extraordinary claim about good to excellent haiku is not so extraordinary, but in order to understand it you've got to learn to read Japanese and live in Japan. Then you'd be able to walk into a railroad station book stall and see the proliferation of haiku magazines, or spend an afternoon at Maruzen and see the racks of new haiku books. That business about good Japanese haiku doing what it does differently than their poor bastard cousins in the west inheres in the language. You'd see that I am not talking about all poetry if you begin right away and give over--say-- the next six years of your life to study. Stay away from the translations and learn Japanese. I'm trading countries--the land of Basho and sashimi for the land of Shakespeare and roast beef--for the for the next month, so it's back to the shadows for me. Thanks for all the great responses. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:39:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: haiku skeptic In-Reply-To: <20030730235655.33169.qmail@web21605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bob and others--Well, "haiku" in English may not be as good as Japanese haiku, but they often seem pretty good compared to a lot of other poems in English. I think there's a quality of discipline and attention that even the weak, Englished version of the form can inspire, and I particularly like the way the genre encourages radical (and enlightening) shifts or juxtapositions of perspective. Anyway, I think all the poems quoted below are excellent (whatever we want to call them) and I also admired the earlier examples from Spiess (as well as your perceptive commentaries). Steve On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Bob Grumman wrote: > --- "Tracy S. Ruggles" wrote: > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 11:04 AM, Bob > > Grumman wrote: > > > > > I think you're just very immersed in Japanese > > haiku > > > (and culture) and so a tad biased--as I am about > > the > > > kind of minimalist English language poetry I've > > been > > > immersed for decades. > > > > Wouldn't these taste of haiku?... > > Gah, what follows are some poems I'd lo0ve (typo I > decieded to leave--and the extra letter is a zero, not > an O) to spend the next few months commenting on as > possible haiku or what I call naiku (nigh-ku), and > then a few months. > > I can't. Don't got the minutes. But I do want to say > a little. First o0ff, I think in serious discussions > of this sort, one needs (forgive the cliche) to define > one's terms. No one, including the Japanese, will > agree on exactly what a haiku is. So the serious > commentator must say what he thinks one is, and go > from there. Those responding to him should then see > if what he's saying make sense according to his > definition AND (if wanting to) provide an opposing > definition, which can then be discussed. I have a > brief definition in the recent issue of Modern Haiku > that I'm not going to quote for fear of having to > defend it and/or elaborate on it, etc. The definition > is in an article on the taxonomy of contemporary haiku > that I now consider much too compressed and therefore > difficult to follow. But it contains poems I consider > to be haiku and world-class, with reasons why I prize > them. Now for a few comments on the following poems. > > > > A Token > > > ------- > > > > > > My lady > > > fair with > > > soft > > > arms, what > > > > > > can I say to > > > you-words, words > > > as if all > > > worlds were there. > > > > -- Robert Creeley > > > > Most people would not take this as very haikuic > because it editorializes. I believe, with most haiku > fans, that haiku should be pretty much pure imagery. > But I also believe that Williams's "Red Wheelbarrow" > is a terrific haiku--BECAUSE of its "so much depends > upon." > > > > .. > > > > > MEDITATION IN THE WHITE MOUNTAINS > > > > > > Blue sky > > > few crags, the slopes > > > are green > > > > > > air > > > whistling by > > > the granite stopwatch > > > > > > -- Clark Coolidge > > I like this whatever it's called, and I WOULD accept > it as a haiku. The fastidious would not like its > having a title (and I do believe the title makes it > too long, and too explained). The fastidious would > also not like its having a metaphor, but I believe all > the best haiku are mataphoric, and should be. > > > .. > > > > > Vaudeville > > > > > > I leave the theatre, > > > keeping step, keeping step to the music. > > > It sticks to my feet, > > > stepped into dung. > > > > > > Night falls > > > in still flakes. > > > > > > -- Charles Reznikoff > > > > .. > > Two haiku there, but the first is too long for a > haiku, though just right for the equal non-haiku I > take it as (with lots of haiku-resonance). > > > > > > is so > > > of > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > even > > > been > > > the > > > > > > -- Clark Coolidge (from Space) > > > > .. > > The fastidious would call this too cerebral. It works > fine as a haiku, for me. > > > > > > > > http://fermi.phys.ualberta.ca/~amk/galles/dachau_po.jpg > > > > > > -- Jerome Rothenberg > > > > .. > > This one is too straightforward for my kind of haiku. > > --Bob G. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:19:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: [webartery] Fwd: [thingist] Open Source Collaborative Art Process Comments: To: webartery Comments: cc: wryting In-Reply-To: <20030731155202.57570.qmail@web10709.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII But why work without ego? What is this about? I think this is a misdirection or misrecognition. The most interesting artists I know, from jazz musicians to painters, have ego, have that obsessiveness and even competitiveness. And you find this even in Dogen for that matter, not to mention Hokusai, Hiroshige, Seikaku, etc. etc. Ego can be a furnace. Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:52:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: New Romes for a New World In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Every age has some ostentatious system to excuse the havoc it commits. Horace Walpole, 1762 Rumsfeld's speech patterns? Or the Vice President's mansion. Or Pentagon marketing schemes? Stephen V The above quote taken from Grey Brechin's book, Imperial San Francisco(UC Press) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:15:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic/Haiku finder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm a bit baffled by the hostile tone in some of these poests re haiku ("brief associative form", "mere counting of syllables")-- Why so dismissive--? And why allude only to Basho? I assume this means one has taken haiku simply from a few examples and investigated no further--? It is interesting that so many "problematic" questions occur when forms from other cultures are used in English-- When English and other Western forms and styles have so influenced other cultures, and not just through colonialism and imperialism . . . it is an exchange back and forth and all around--a listening and learning--with the possibilities always open for change--a difference which is perhaps not of the measure of the originary--yet . . . may well send one back to the originary with a questioning and open mind--and bring into an other language new findings and soundings within itself through the use of a different method of composition . . . I understand what dear friend Jesse is saying in regards to an English language haiku not being able to have the resonances and connotations, the allusiveness and tonalities of the Japanese. Hearing a Japanese friend read some haiku aloud in Japanese conveyed this vividly to me, though I don't speak Japanese--just listened very attentively. Of course, part of this is due to the long centuries of hailku in history and to its immense popularity and practice to this day in Japan. There is an immense body of work to draw upon, an immense accumulation of images, sounds to work with, and ways to work into these contemporary language in all its ever developing varieties. Haiku in a myriad of journals continue an ongoing exchange of work, a conversation that is part of a living culture. I think it should be noted that begining in the last decade of the 19th century, with Shiki, there is the beginnings of the liberation within the haiku form, first from the use of the seasonal notings (kigo), then eventually from the use of the 5-7-5 syllabic form (the shinkeiko or "new-development" movement). A major figure in this movement is Seisensui Ogiwara who established the journal SOUN in 1911. The most important (and now very popular) poet to emerge from this movement and journal (he was for a while its editor) is Santoka Taneda. He is also regarded as a great Zen master--despite alcoholism which continued throughout his life. He was a wandering monk--estimated to have walked 28, 000 miles in Japan through the 1920s and '30s. Even on his begging wanderings he kept in touch with other poets and composed continually both haiku and journals. The mighty example and work of Santoka is available in English: MOUNTAIN TASTING Zen Haiku of Santoka Taneda translated by and with very good introduction by John Stevens (New York: Weatherhill, 1980; it has recently been reprinted). Another alcoholic and suicidal depressive converted to Buddhism and haiku writing, in an even freer form than Santoka, is Hosai Ozaki (1885-1926). His work is presented in English with translations by Hiroaki Sato, introduction by Kyoko Selden and preface by Cor van der Heuval in RIGHT UNDER THE BIG SKY, I DON'T WEAR A HAT The Haiku and Prose of Hosai Ozaki (Berkeley: Stone Bridge Press, 1993). Hosai's lines are not presented in the standard translation method of three seperated lines, but in one single line: I open the desk drawer with nothing in it just to see Hosai and Santoka are two of my favorite poets in any language--their work is an encounter with liberation within/outwo/ards from a form as well as a liberation of the mind, the life-- Recently have been reading a good deal of "modern" Japanese poetry (i.e. post 1900)-- A number of people in this discussion have questioned the use of forms from other languages, traditions-- It should be noted that this works both ways--for example a good deal of the Japanese poets have been reading made use of Western forms, images, free form verse, allusions, expressionisms and subjectivisms etc. Again, two personal favorites are Shinkichi Takahashi and Hagiwara Sakutaro, both of whom were very influenced by Dadaism in their early works. Shinkichi, later to become known as the greatest modern Zen poet and author of a myriad Zen books as well as poetry, called himself Japan's first and greatest Dadaist. (A friend is translating his Dada works into English for a forthcoming issue of Traverse). Bob Grumman made a very good indication --that there is a very large American haiku writing community, with journals which contain not only haiku but also reviews, essays and discussions. I think it should be noted that while American haiku may not have the range of tonalities, allusions, plays on words perhaps that the Japanese does, it is creating in American language its own sounds and allusions It can be recalled (and found on CD etc) that Kerouac recorded many of his haiku with jazz accompaniement. . I have read a good deal of haiku in English--some of it much better than others--but found that sometimes it is very limited, due to a set of more or less limited precepts and preconceptions. I don't think this is because the haiku are written in English--I think it may be that they lack the sense of intensity that the great Japanese writers in the form have. These were concerned not just with the form, but with its use in expressing both the findings and the searchings along the Path--mainly Zen. The form and the Zen work together towards a liberation. This does not mean that a haiku writer need be a Zen person--to me it means that the haiku brings in its concision and attentiveness to the daily, the simple, the concrete, the sense of the world as we see it as passing--I think that in this discipline there is the focus of awareness on the minimal as a way of opening outwo/ards within immediacy. Through a series of haphazard events I out of the blue began to write haiku a year and a half ago and to read a great deal of it. For me haiku dovetailed with the work i do in visual poetry and sound poetry and in writing--that is, the use of materials found in the streets, using them for rubbings, reverse printings and so forth-- this is a way of working directly and with immediacy by using spray paintings especially or by making rubbings with lumber crayon, then xeroxing or adding transfers-- I write haiku in tiny notebooks carried everywhere. Began with the 17 syllable 5-7-5 structure and found that this greatly intensified my learning of the weight, sound, tone of each syllable. As well, it lead to ever sparer imagery, getting rid of superflous words, any form of extraneous exigesis. Practised daily, it led to a kind of meditation, in which all thoughts began to form in that structure, bringing a rhythm as one walked, looked and listened. It began to change ways of thinking, of action. It is a method of working and being, of seeing and hearing. Reading the great Japanese haiku writers, I may not hear them in their language. But I can use what I do learn from them in the way of ever moving onwo/ards in finding . . . Anywhere--materials with which to work, basic elements, stepping stones-- A very strict form and discipline can bring freedoms not before found-- Don Cherry the great jazz trumpeter used to say "Only a very disciplined musician can play Free Jazz". For myself, working with haiku is a continual learning. I have also used it in conjunction with visual poems--THE DEAD SEE SCRAWLS-- Haiku encourages a leap-- a change-- Cezanne wrote of being able to sit on a river bank, a favorite motif, and by just moving the head an inch, see a completely new world presented to view. I should note I don't think the short poems being quoted are haiku. I love those poems very much but they are not haiku. They are written with quite another form in mind. It should also be noted that of course many haiku are quite mundane! Even among quanta only so many make the leap! The main thing is one has a tool with which to work, and others to learn from of this, over many centuries and among so many people on two sides of the world. As Basho writes in his magnificent "Learn from the Pine": "The basis of art is change in the universe." onwo/ards! david baptiste >From: Mark Weiss >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:51:22 -0700 > >Great poets are few in any culture and any form. Do you actually think that >something inherent in a brief associative form engendered Basho? I'd like >to see the mechanism. > >That said, I don't personally have a lot of use for prescriptive forms of >any origin. > > >Mark > >At 06:05 PM 7/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>I have to stand with Jesse on this. Although I admire what Joel is >>attempting I am not so fond of poetry as the panacea of problems, >>especially >>English haiku. Tonka seems to be the best Japanese structure for the >>English >>language rhythms of speech. Even though I like Kerouac's haiku, and others >>I >>have come across -- I still haven't found anyone to write them with the >>same >>passion as Basho. There is a wound philosophy that goes beyond the mere >>counting of syllables -- as does Shakespeare with his iams. >> >>Here is a neat website of international haiku >>http://hem.passagen.se/magnus.wallberg/haiku_eng.html >> >>Best, Geoffrey >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joel Weishaus" >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:21 PM >>Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic >> >> >> > I happen to be working on a book of haiku with Jungian psychiatrist >>David >>H. >> > Rosen, the working title for which is "The Healing Spirit of Haiku." It >>will >> > be illustrated by Arthur Okamura. >> > However, what I'd like to recommend are haiku by Jack Kerouac. There's >>a >> > collection out, and some of his haiku are splendid. >> > >> > -Joel W. >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Bob Grumman" >> > To: >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:50 AM >> > Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic >> > >> > >> > > --- jesse glass wrote: >> > > > Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English >> > > > language haiku movement and the other folks you >> > > > mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. >> > > > etc. >> > > > >> > > > I have a request: If you know of a good or great >> > > > English haiku, please post it and tell us why you >> > > > find that it works well as an English language poem. >> > > >> > > > No translations please! Jesse >> > > >> > > I haven't seen the post this one is responding to, but >> > > had to jump in. >> > > >> > > There are zillions of great English haiku but the only >> > > one I can think of offhand because it's only one word >> > > is Cor Van den Heuvel's "tundra"--in the middle of an >> > > otherwise blank page. Two images, tundra and blank >> > > page, working off each other. Even a season word. >> > > Great because unexpected (when composed)--and, >> > > needless to say, succinct. And dealing with large >> > > things: silence, emptiness, nothingness . . . >> > > >> > > Here are two by Robert Spiess, picked almost at random >> > > for THE HAIKU ANTHOLOGY: >> > > >> > > A light river wind; >> > > on the crannied cliff >> > > hang harebell and fern >> > > >> > > Muttering thunder . . . >> > > the bottom of the river >> > > scattered with clams >> > > >> > > Both, to start with, are pretty pictures, which I >> > > consider a big plus for any poem. The first seems >> > > superior to me for comparing in a subtle way the >> > > effect of the light wind on the delicate harebell and >> > > fern with the long-term crannying effect of the river; >> > > two kinds of rivers. . . . And the wind on top of the >> > > river as the harebell and fern are on the surface of >> > > the cliff. And the near permanence of the cliff >> > > versus the transience of the wind, and river versus >> > > plants. Something of the precariousness of not only >> > > life (the harebell and fern just hanging) but of >> > > existence (the cliff crannying away). The different >> > > weights of the two movements of wind and river. >> > > >> > > In the second we also get two contrasted/harmonized >> > > images. The main magic for me inheres in the serenity >> > > of the clams. But I also like their being muffled, so >> > > to speak, in water, as the thunder is in the distance. >> > > Note, too, the spring to full-dimensionality of the >> > > poem from river-bottom to distant sky, and the sizes >> > > of the activities going on in both. And the >> > > transcience of the one versus to durability of the >> > > second (life, this time, not seeming precarious, but >> > > unstoppable). >> > > >> > > --Bob G. >> > > >> > > >> > > __________________________________ >> > > Do you Yahoo!? >> > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >> > > http://sbc.yahoo.com >> > >> > I'm a bit baffled by the hostile tone in some of these poests re haiku ("brief associative form", "mere counting of syllables")-- Why so dismissive--? And why allude only to Basho? I assume this means one has taken haiku simply from a few examples and investigated no further--? It is interesting that so many "problematic" questions occur when forms from other cultures are used in English-- When English and other Western forms and styles have so influenced other cultures, and not just through colonialism and imperialism . . . it is an exchange back and forth and all around--a listening and learning--with the possibilities always open for change--a difference which is perhaps not of the measure of the originary--yet . . . may well send one back to the originary with a questioning and open mind-- I understand what dear friend Jesse is saying in regards to an English language haiku not being able to have the resonances and connotations, the allusiveness and tonalities of the Japanese. Hearing a Japanese friend read some haiku aloud in Japanese conveyed this vividly to me, though I don't speak Japanese--just listened very attentively. Of course, part of this is due to the long centuries of hailku in history and to its immense popularity and practice to this day in Japan. There is an immense body of work to draw upon, an immense accumulation of images, sounds to work with, and ways to work into these contemporary language in all its ever developing varieties. Haiku in a myriad of journals continue an ongoing exchange of work, a conversation that is part of a living culture. I think it should be noted that begining in the last decade of the 19th century, with Shiki, there is the beginnings of the liberation within the haiku form, first from the use of the seasonal notings (kigo), then eventually from the use of the 5-7-5 syllabic form (the shinkeiko or "new-development" movement). A major figure in this movement is Seisensui Ogiwara who established the journal SOUN in 1911. The most important (and now very popular) poet to emerge from this movement and journal (he was for a while its editor) is Santoka Taneda. He is also regarded as a great Zen master--despite alcoholism which continued throughout his life. He was a wandering monk--estimated to have walked 28, 000 miles in Japan through the 1920s and '30s. Even on his begging wanderings he kept in touch with other poets and composed continually both haiku and journals. The mighty example and work of Santoka is available in English: MOUNTAIN TASTING Zen Haiku of Santoka Taneda translated by and with very good introduction by John Stevens (New York: Weatherhill, 1980; it has recently been reprinted). Another alcoholic and suicidal depressive converted to Buddhism and haiku writing, in an even freer form than Santoka, is Hosai Ozaki (1885-1926). His work is presented in English with translations by Hiroaki Sato, introduction by Kyoko Selden and preface by Cor van der Heuval in RIGHT UNDER THE BIG SKY, I DON'T WEAR A HAT The Haiku and Prose of Hosai Ozaki (Berkeley: Stone Bridge Press, 1993). Hosai's lines are not presented in the standard translation method of three seperated lines, but in one single line: I open the desk drawer with nothing in it just to see Hosai and Santoka are two of my favorite poets in any language--their work is an encounter with liberation within/outwo/ards from a form as well as a liberation of the mind, the life-- Recently have been reading a good deal of "modern" Japanese poetry (i.e. post 1900)-- A number of people in this discussion have questioned the use of forms from other languages, traditions-- It should be noted that this works both ways--for example a good deal of the Japanese poets have been reading made use of Western forms, images, free form verse, allusions, expressionisms and subjectivisms etc. Again, two personal favorites are Shinkichi Takahashi and Hagiwara Sakutaro, both of whom were very influenced by Dadaism in their early works. Shinkichi, later to become known as the greatest modern Zen poet and author of a myriad Zen books as well as poetry, called himself Japan's first and greatest Dadaist. (A friend is translating his Dada works into English for a forthcoming issue of Traverse). I have read a good deal of haiku in English--some of it much better than others--but found that often it is very limited, due to a set of more or less limited precepts and preconceptions. I don't think this is because the haiku are written in English--I think it may be that they lack the sense of intensity that the great Japanese writers in the form have. These were concerned not just with the form, but with its use in expressing both the findings and the searchings along the Path--mainly Zen. The form and the Zen work together towards a liberation. This does not mean that a haiku writer need be a Zen person--to me it means that the haiku brings in its concision and attentiveness to the daily, the simple, the concrete, the sense of the world as we see it as passing--I think that in this discipline there is the focus of awareness on the minimal as a way of opening outwo/ards within immediacy. I should note that my approach to/with haiku and emphasizing its form as a way tow/ards an ongoing work of liberation is not based on any clearly defined personal spiritual belief as such, but on a personal experience of haiku in a given context. I had not read any haiku nor thought of them in about a quarter century until a year and half or so ago >From: Mark Weiss >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:51:22 -0700 > >Great poets are few in any culture and any form. Do you actually think that >something inherent in a brief associative form engendered Basho? I'd like >to see the mechanism. > >That said, I don't personally have a lot of use for prescriptive forms of >any origin. > > >Mark > >At 06:05 PM 7/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>I have to stand with Jesse on this. Although I admire what Joel is >>attempting I am not so fond of poetry as the panacea of problems, >>especially >>English haiku. Tonka seems to be the best Japanese structure for the >>English >>language rhythms of speech. Even though I like Kerouac's haiku, and others >>I >>have come across -- I still haven't found anyone to write them with the >>same >>passion as Basho. There is a wound philosophy that goes beyond the mere >>counting of syllables -- as does Shakespeare with his iams. >> >>Here is a neat website of international haiku >>http://hem.passagen.se/magnus.wallberg/haiku_eng.html >> >>Best, Geoffrey >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joel Weishaus" >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:21 PM >>Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic >> >> >> > I happen to be working on a book of haiku with Jungian psychiatrist >>David >>H. >> > Rosen, the working title for which is "The Healing Spirit of Haiku." It >>will >> > be illustrated by Arthur Okamura. >> > However, what I'd like to recommend are haiku by Jack Kerouac. There's >>a >> > collection out, and some of his haiku are splendid. >> > >> > -Joel W. >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Bob Grumman" >> > To: >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:50 AM >> > Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic >> > >> > >> > > --- jesse glass wrote: >> > > > Hmmmm. I am aware of the international English >> > > > language haiku movement and the other folks you >> > > > mentioned. I've also taken a look at the zip, etc. >> > > > etc. >> > > > >> > > > I have a request: If you know of a good or great >> > > > English haiku, please post it and tell us why you >> > > > find that it works well as an English language poem. >> > > >> > > > No translations please! Jesse >> > > >> > > I haven't seen the post this one is responding to, but >> > > had to jump in. >> > > >> > > There are zillions of great English haiku but the only >> > > one I can think of offhand because it's only one word >> > > is Cor Van den Heuvel's "tundra"--in the middle of an >> > > otherwise blank page. Two images, tundra and blank >> > > page, working off each other. Even a season word. >> > > Great because unexpected (when composed)--and, >> > > needless to say, succinct. And dealing with large >> > > things: silence, emptiness, nothingness . . . >> > > >> > > Here are two by Robert Spiess, picked almost at random >> > > for THE HAIKU ANTHOLOGY: >> > > >> > > A light river wind; >> > > on the crannied cliff >> > > hang harebell and fern >> > > >> > > Muttering thunder . . . >> > > the bottom of the river >> > > scattered with clams >> > > >> > > Both, to start with, are pretty pictures, which I >> > > consider a big plus for any poem. The first seems >> > > superior to me for comparing in a subtle way the >> > > effect of the light wind on the delicate harebell and >> > > fern with the long-term crannying effect of the river; >> > > two kinds of rivers. . . . And the wind on top of the >> > > river as the harebell and fern are on the surface of >> > > the cliff. And the near permanence of the cliff >> > > versus the transience of the wind, and river versus >> > > plants. Something of the precariousness of not only >> > > life (the harebell and fern just hanging) but of >> > > existence (the cliff crannying away). The different >> > > weights of the two movements of wind and river. >> > > >> > > In the second we also get two contrasted/harmonized >> > > images. The main magic for me inheres in the serenity >> > > of the clams. But I also like their being muffled, so >> > > to speak, in water, as the thunder is in the distance. >> > > Note, too, the spring to full-dimensionality of the >> > > poem from river-bottom to distant sky, and the sizes >> > > of the activities going on in both. And the >> > > transcience of the one versus to durability of the >> > > second (life, this time, not seeming precarious, but >> > > unstoppable). >> > > >> > > --Bob G. >> > > >> > > >> > > __________________________________ >> > > Do you Yahoo!? >> > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >> > > http://sbc.yahoo.com >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:50:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Fwd: New from Traverse Press/Visual Poetry, Assemblage Exhibit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed New from Traverse: > >TRAVERSE supplement no. 1 - Will Alexander and Alan Semerdjian: poems plus >interview. Loose leaf 8.5 X 11 contained in a red file folder with a color >image from Dave Chirot, a Polaroid, and various ephemera. Ltd. $6 + $3 s&h. >To inquire or order please email Drew Kunz at traverse@arcticmail.com. > >TRAVERSE supplement no. 2 - Dave Chirot, ZERO POEM. 16pp. Visual poem on >loose leaf 8.5 X 11 in stamped USAGAIN envelope. Ltd. 150 for gallery show >at the Jody Monroe, Milwaukee. $5 + $3 s&h. To inquire or order please >email Drew Kunz at traverse@arcticmail.com. > Jody Monroe Gallery presents works by Amanda Ross-Ho (Chicago) & David Baptiste Chirot (Milwaukee) Amanda Ross-Ho: Photography, drawing, assemblages David Baptiste Chirot: Spray paintings, visual poetry, street rubbings, collages, intersign works, sound poetry scores, display of visual poetry books: ZERO POEM TEARERSISM THE DEAD SEE SCRAWLS OPENING 26 jULY 2003, 3-7 ON DISPLAY THROUGH 6 SEPTMEBER 2003 Jody Monroe Gallery 631 E. Center Street Milwaukee, W! 53212 jodymonroe@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:32:54 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: My country steals from me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My country steals from me, every dollar that it sees, Of theft I sing. Land where my fathers died? Land of the Pilgrim's pride? >From every mountain side, Let the truth ring! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:09:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: cocking a snook Comments: cc: dcmb In-Reply-To: <200307310522.h6V5MXX03309@beasley.concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear David (and all!), not to worry. Things are much better. But yes, it's been far too long between dalliances. Where is Our Laureateship, do you suppose, sleeping off his annual butt of sack? Somebody once asked Bob Hope why he left England and he said "because I found out I could never be king." Is that why you left? Drink some hot coffee. I love you too. Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of dcmb > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:33 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: cocking a snook > > > rachel--heard a rumor you were very ill;is there any truth to > it? Sorry to > have been so long out of touch, and so unflirtingly at that. > Say it isnt so. > Myself am aging ever faster every day, and soon will catcch > up to and pass > Bob Hope, whose dying words were to mumble "Seabiscuit > DB"......I havent > been this high in the 90's since I visited Bruce Andrews. > Love to you, > David ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:39:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: cocking a snook In-Reply-To: <200307310303.h6V33rD15416@buckpalace.concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 'Cocking a snoot' is not the same as 'cocking a snook' Apparently. More snooks are cocked than snoots, if Google is any guide (909 links to "cocking a snook" and only 87 to "cocking a snoot"). The OED doesn't give a nod to snoot-cocking at all: snook, n. [Of obscure origin.] A derisive gesture, = sight n.1 7c. Chiefly in phr. to cock a snook (at). 1791 E. Wynne Diary 7 Dec. (1935) I. 90 They cock snooks at one on every occasion. 1879 A. J. C. Hare Story Life (1900) V. 218 If I put my hands so+(cutting a snooks), they might reproach me very much indeed. 1904 Times 24 Sept. 8/3 The young monkey puts his tongue in his cheek and cocks a snook at you. 1906 Drury Men at Arms 36 Her Majesty's ship+cocked her jibboom snooks-fashion at her late enemy the sea. 1929 H. S. Walpole Hans Frost i. vii. 78 He was like a dirty street boy cocking a snook at Sappho. 1938 E. Ambler Cause for Alarm viii. 128 The Rome-Berlin axis+cocked the biggest snook yet at the League of Nations idea. 1959 M. Cumberland Murmurs in Rue Morgue v. 38 With his right hand he made the somewhat coarse gesture known as 'cocking a snook'. The thumb and extended fingers, spread in front of the face, made a baffling disguise. 1961 B. Fergusson Watery Maze ii. 48 It would be idle to pretend that it was of much importance; it was really only cocking a vulgar snook. 1965 Listener 9 Sept. 374/2, I walked past the Thatched House+where I and other young journalists used to cock snooks at our superiors. 1980 Times 29 Feb. 10 East German craft last spring embarked upon a new ploy+to net a Danish torpedo,+cooking a snook at Nato's Baltic muscle. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:25:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: snook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not to be confused with Fanny Brice's baby snooks Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:38:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Found Haiku" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Found Haiku Walter Benjamin’s thought is best grasped as an al- legorical one . . . . --Fredric Jameson as quoted by Ron Silliman in *The New Sentence* Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:40:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Haiku Skeptic/Haiku finder In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed David: I think you mistake me. As the author of hundreds of brief associative poems I was describing, not dismissing. I would also be creful about assuming that I only know the work of one master. Let me say it again: I'm glad that a lot of Japanese people like to write haiku. It's good to remember that the sonnet had a long vogue in the west. There are nonetheless nothing near thousands of good sonnets unless one's standards are impossibly low. Good poetry of any kind is at any time and in any language a relatively scarce commodity. And again: clearly "an English language haiku [can't] have the resonances and connotations, the allusiveness and tonalities of the Japanese," but it can have others. Or is the haiku somethingh like a macrobiotic diet, in which one is only allowed to eat foods currently in season in Japan? Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:44:02 -0400 Reply-To: 18073-feedback-47@lb.bcentral.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: The Bowery Poetry Club From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Poetry Bowery sez: Lorca! Griots! Japanese Rock! Sirowitz! and the return of Gary Glazner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery NY NY 10012 @ Bleecker, right across f= rom CBGB's F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 =C2= =A0more info? www.bowerypoetry.com tix? www.virtuous.com audio downlo= ads? www.audible.com/bpc=20 Thur 7/31 You probably know our slam team, Urbana, is the current Champi= on of Slam. You may know that we'll be defending the title in Chicago nex= t week -- the Finals are August 9. To send them off in style we'll be hol= ding a Toss 'em Cash Bash: Auction and Dance Party, featuring a head-to-h= ead Slam Bout: our doorman, "Big" George McKibbens vs. "Tiny" Dawn Saylor= , our Cafe Manager. It's at 7:30, and it's free!.... the $1 Hip Hop Show = will follow at 10 -- best hiphop in town... Friday, 8/1=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Our favorite guest manager, Gary Glaz= ner, starts his programming with a Federico Garcia Lorca Night at 5, whic= h will wrap around Son of Andy Warhol! the Prof. Taylor Mead! show at 6:3= 0 ($5) --the Truth as only Taylor tells it... There will be Lorca in Spa= nish, English, on video and out the mouth of Quincy Troupe -- free...at 8= Sini Anderson drops in with one of her poetry multi-media spectaculars(1= 0-5$)... A Party for Cornelia Street brings us the vivacious Jackie Sheel= er w/ minAsian (9:30, 5$)...Africa First Friday goes Namibian -- poetry, = music, dance from 11 to 3am (10/7$)... Saturday 8/2 =C2=A0 editors Donald Lev and Enid Dame, Home Planet News Po= etry Festival, host their sparkling series at 2 (3$)... Papa Susso, our r= esident griot, will be playing in the coffee shop every Saturday till fal= l -- drop in for a cuppa po, and check out Papa's new cd's (5pm, contribu= tion) -- at 6 it's #3 of Ishle Park's 7 Saturdays, a new series produced= by the Queen of the PoSlam Scene -- tonight, Chia-Ti Chiu and Rebecca Li= chtenfield (5$)... and at 10 we got Japanese Rock Bands from Hell (10, 7= /5$, bring earplugs)... =C2=A0 Sunday 8/3 our coffee shop opens at 11 on weekends, and our first show at= 1pm is a sweet bon voyage party for Marj Hahne's Plastic Igloo Tour (fre= e).... at 3, we'll begin a sequence of shows for the Rock Opera, Holes B= efore Bedtime ($5)... and at 4, a new monthly series OBLIVIO led by Micha= el Barrish ($5)...at 9:30 our super Sunday night feature -- the cast of t= he off-Broadway smash in DeLa Guarda Castaways, stepping out in new mater= ial, including the City's greatest Open Stage Call (5$)... Monday 8/4 =C2=A0Mondays continue on their outrageous path with this week= 's installment of the=C2=A0Totally Open Slam which starts at 6 led by int= repid Bo Ho (3$)... Girlbomb & Sara Fisch present Semi-Pro Tool at 8:00 (= 5$)... and the sin-sational O'Debra Twins "Show & Tell" from 10:00 till t= he whee! hours -- po, perf, and burlesque (3$)... Tuesday 8/5 =C2=A0....hey! Sneak Peek! word has it that Bethany Brooks is= destined for, well, Destiny! be the first to be in the know(5$)...part 2= of the Rock Opera, Holes Before Bedtime, will begin at 8($5)... We're b= ack w/ Kareoke + Poetry =3D Fun, Dan Nester's crazy idea, that always beg= ins w/ a set by the notorious Poet laureate of Queens, Hal Sirowitz (9:15= , $6)... Wed 8/6 Our monthly Soft Skull Sneak Peek series brings John S Hall, Aman= da Stern and Matthew Sharpe to the mic at 7 (5$)... at 9 it's the thrilli= ng conclusion of Holes Before Bedtime, after which the Holes folks will h= ave a party free for all w/ some solid bands -- VAZ, Arctic Universe, an= d the ever-popular, the Cuntz (afterparty free starts at 10 or so) ... ...next week a Mead Festival and Tasting -- the wine that tastes of empti= ness & it's GOOD, too... a big Brooklyn on the Bowery Poetry Day ...and F= arbeon's Book of Changes (thursday, Aug 7 at 10) Delicious coffee & pastries served weekdays at 9, weekends at 11...homema= de salads & sandwiches till closing...bar opens at 5pm weekdays, 1pm week= ends...wheelchair accessible...coolly air- conditioned... Write poem now thank you.=20 The Bowery Poetry Club=20 308 Bowery NY NY 10012 @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's=20 F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 _______________________________________________________________________ Powered by List Builder To unsubscribe follow the link: http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/sp?c=3D18073&s=3DED2406683AF93F52&m=3D47 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:30:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Animal poetry Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With more emphasis on Bitch Animal beatnik slam that up dose her Cowboy nutritionist with stolen incoherent species, where males give the females nuptial. To innovate cruelty of poetry a variety of live freshwater Mockingbird anthologies and Performance Volunteers are needed to feed the cats and tell a horseplayer a huge variety of things about memorizing because it's not just the resilient toughness and the unlikely hero, a man who loved short prose decorated the circus. All new jugglers for the lucky Concrete Cat Bitch even managed to end ferocious sequences For the Unlost. The Human was an ornery likeness criticizing the city, bonding between sheer visual Express, only heard his almost ago as the crowd shouted "Tiger, Tiger, Tiger." She paces like depiction of the eerie atmosphere. The animals have nothing to say and I am three gardens and a plant in classical love crystallised landscape, or well-chilled to avoid the book of wine. Kite making behind-the-scenes or the chance encounter once the world has been saved. You give what you remember of this animal .... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:23:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Keenan Subject: History of Monetary Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A belief in the unity of God is not favourable to the maintenance of an hierarchy. (Osama has no Langley) So says Del Mar of the Moslems. In the Roman empire the right to coin gold [mint and stamp it] always remained with the sovereign-pontiff [the Basileus (Augustus) Bush] ... the coinage [the minting and stamping of, not the use] of gold [...] with the Arabs as with the Persians and Romans, was a sacerdotal prerogative The early emirs struck no gold, not even with Roman devices, and when Abd-el-Melik struck gold, the sovereign-pontiff of Rome [Bush],[...]immediately declared war upon him Under Abd-el-Melik [...]coins became wholly Arabian and had the valuation of silver to gold of 6 1/2 for 1, a characteristic that carried westward, and continued to influence the coinages of Europe until after the discovery of America In A.H. 67 (A.D. 686), Abd-el-Melik, being [...]involved in civil war with the Mardaites, bought peace of Justinian II [...]by the payment of a tribute of 1,000 gold solidi or dinars per annum for ten years. Down to this time these coins were struck by Abd-el-Melik, with Roman emblems and legends upon them. Six years later [Abd-el-Melik] having disposed of the Mardaite trouble, determined to assert his independence of Rome, and by a token understood of all the world: He struck gold with his own effigy Justinian [Bush] refused to receive these coins because, says, Zonaras Greenspan, "It is not permitted to stamp gold coins with any other ['effin']effigy but that of the emperor of Rome." Whereupon a war was declared by Bush (whose Congress abrogated its power to declare war for some time past) Why, pray tell, 6 and 1/2 of 1 and half a dozen of another? Again Del Mar: The Athenian, Persian, Egyptian, and Roman governments had successfully absorbed a large portion of the profits derived from the Indian trade, by lowering the value of silver (in which their tributes were chiefly received) in the Occident to half its value in the Orient. By making the bullion trade a strictly governmental monopoly, as Cicero informs us was the case with Rome, that hierarchy obtained twice as much gold for silver in India as it paid for it in Europe... The Arabian government was more considerate of its merchants: it threw open the oriental trade to all true believers; it imposed no restrictions; it was averse [...]to the imposition of covert exactions [with usura hath no man a house of good stone] (and to this day the towns of Arabia have a plethora of little shops where the little man can make a dirham) During the seventh century of our era the ratio in India was about 6 1/2 for 1, and this high valuation of silver in India continued substantially unchanged until the fifteenth century. It was at the Indian ratio that the moslem struck their coins of gold and silver. Whatever the true reason of this policy, it was certainly more profitable for the moslem conquerors than had they adopted the contemporaneous Roman ratio of 12 for 1. A brief computation will serve to measure this profit. ... [this] system of purely Arabian coinages [...] continued until the centre of their empire was virtually removed to India, and they had lost control of both the mines and the commerce of Europe. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:39:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The future of the train. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The future of the train. hawk.jpg hawk2.jpg hawk3.jpg firedrry14.jpg firedrry15.jpg wasp.jpg Six images apropos of yesterday's text - bacterial and mineral traces and deposits in the mine fire area; images of hawk and wasp. weather.exe == makework for the plow | blood.exe == net.sex.blood All at http://www.asondheim.org/portal You see it is the critical patterning and repatterning of the vectors. Within catastrophe linguistics there is always the grasp. One might also have the shun. The hawks have disappeared. The wasps are thread-waisted. A large train may appear in the future. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:52:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 12th Anniversary Party Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please Forward --------------- Boog City 12th Anniversary Party Thurs. Aug. 7, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Come celebrate the anniversary of literary press and community newspaper publisher Boog City and the beginning of their new monthly reading series, d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press in america. Featuring readings from NYC small press editors who Boog City has published, including: Lee Ann Brown (Tender Buttons) * Jen Coleman (pompom) Jordan Davis and Chris Edgar (The Hat) Bob Hershon (Hanging Loose Press) Katy Lederer (Explosive/Spectacular Books) Brendan Lorber (Lungfull) * Dan Machlin (future poem) Lewis Warsh (United Artists) * Rebecca Woolf (Fence) Also, a featured reading by Alaska's Kent Fielding, who has edited Louisville, Kentucky's White Fields Press and Permafrost. With music from Paula Paige There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Hosted by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues. For further information call 212-842-BOOG (2664) or email editor@boogcity.com -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 www.boogcity.com