=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 21:58:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: renga, re
Aside from a desire to follow tradition, there is no
reason not to invent a new (cyber?) form of renga here.
I have done some work on what I call 0"bluestankas"
(modern or post-such urban and gritty) and in some ways
the spirit travels well.
Over the weekend I chanced (serendipitously?) across
the best description of renga I've seen. It comes from a
more popular and less formal source, but I think it
captures the spirit or soul of renga:
"_Renga is essentially perpetual-motion verse capping.
To the fourteen syllables that cap a _tanka one adds
another verse of seventeen, in effect starting another
_tanka. Only this new verse continues the thought of
the fourteen-syllable verse and (more important) departs
from the meaning of the original seventeen-syllable
verse, shifting the seasonal identification, the
speaker, the mood, or some other significant element.
When you read _renga, you not only find meaning being
added and deepened, you see it also being subtracted,
slipping into oblivion, as the old links slough off and
away. You become attentive and wary as every link
shines and shifts under your eyes. Buddhist critics
likened the composing of _renga to a correct
understanding of the impermanence of the world."
(from _All-Japan: the catalog of everything Japanese).
Bada Shanren
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 23:56:57 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: rengala
>
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >Rack of lambent jingoism, carving the exemplar's demise
> Hurricane Eden and evening is nigh []~`\)<-
>
Inside, inside! This syndetic material is killing me.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 00:06:14 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: rengala
> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >Rack of lambent jingoism, carving the exemplar's demise
> > Hurricane Eden and evening is nigh []~`\)<-
> Inside, inside! This syndetic material is killing me.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:40:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Free Verse Soot
In-Reply-To: <9507301919.AA06436@infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us>
OK, I'm back after a half-week hiatus, and will continue to input on the
question of belief. In a related story, Jonathan Brannen wonders why
there is resistence on the part of some to calling poetry an art, and then
muses about the respective roles of talent & technique. But the obvious
answer doesn't seem to suggest itself, so I'll spell it out: some of us
don't like to use the term "art" because for us more is lost than gained.
In particular what is lost for me is the avoidance of mystification,
evidenced aplenty by Brannen's well-meant appeal to the undefined (and by
implication undefinable).
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg The moment is at hand.
University Writing Program Take one another
Duke University and eat.
Durham, NC 27708
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:32:11 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga, Renga, Renga
Tom Taylor:
What?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:21:05 PST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Taylor <TOMT@CH1.CH.PDX.EDU>
Organization: PSU Cramer Hall
Subject: Re: rengaro [Cth
Nothing but net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:59:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: folk rhythms & forms
Cris Cheek writes:
>The issue of rhythm is crucial. Rhythm in folk musics has been tightened by
>the twin processes of military organisation and industrialisation? The
>storyteller Ben Gaggarty was here over the weekend and along with
>traditional singer Chris Foster and poets Jean 'binta' Breeze and Merle
>Collins we got into a protracted discussion of rhythm and oral traditions.
>The question remains as to whether rhythm organically follows or imposes on
>pulse? Rhythm in many 'folk' musics has become 'stricter' throughout the
>twentieth century. Go way back into earlier millenia and the speculation
>favours a looser feel. A beguiling subtlety of pulse.
While it's true that older folk forms have become increasingly calcified, I
think this is more part of an ongoing historic process than a result of
"the 20th Century." Once people are writing in a form that they learn by
rote rather than through an active community practice, you've got problems.
Hence, blues, or Child ballads, or New Orleans-style jazz, are, for the
most part, now rule-based artforms, rather than a tradition in which people
actively develop a style. & the rhythms used often seem as if the performer
learned them by rote, rather than felt them.
This is not true of some newer folk forms (by which I mean forms that have
an active life within some part of the culture), like some of rap or rock,
or even a little of what remains of jazz. Where there are real people for
whom the music is part of daily life, it is possible to have some of that
rhythmic looseness, even in the context of "military organisation and
industrialisation." It's difficult for a music to be central to some
subculture (it seems impossible for any one music to be truly central to
the whole culture any more) and still escape becoming commercialized and
losing it's "folky looseness.
Capital must expand, and one of the ways it does this is to absorb other
cultural forms. So we end up with the travesty of a "folk" music that now
means a singer performing her own songs with few (if any) other
accompanists, rather than performing a song that no one knows the author of
or the debacle of a "world" music that has all too often come to mean
"electric guitars from many lands." But that's probably a discussion for a
different group.
Getting away, then, from the issue of rhythm, to the more general issue of
traditional forms, (& back to poetics), much the same argument could
(obviously) be made for much New Formalist poetry. It's simply a different
thing for someone to write a canzone, a sestina, or a sonnet sequence
several hundred years after it was a functional poetic form within the
culture. It's no longer part of a living culture, it's a marketing
strategy.
There are different, but related problems when you are dealing with a
"tradition" that values formal innovation (also as marketing strategy)
regardless of content over continuing (or revived) formal structures used
to convey personal content.
Think how different "our" literary culture would be if many writers took on
the formal rhythms of Lyn Hejinian's "My Life," the five-line stanzas of
Barrett Watten's "Progress," or other structures & forms from language
works of the 1980s, just as many people write sonnet sequences or workshop
poems.
Could these idiosyncratic forms become idioms in any functional way? What
would it take for this to happen? Would it be a good thing?
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:59:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Innovations & Traditions
Comments: To: wr-eye-tings@sfu.ca
Last week (as I posted earlier to <wr-eye-tings>, but not to <poetics>), I
heard a great performance by Dutch sound-poet Jaap Blonk. He did a lot of
his own pieces, several improvisations and a few works by others, including
two movements of Kurt Schwitters' Ur Sonata. Since then I've spent some
time listening to 4 recordings of the Ur Sonata: by Schwitters, Blonk,
Eberhard Blum & Christopher Butterfield.
As with any performance, there are differences between the interpretations,
but the Ur Sonata is pretty much a sonata in the classical sense. The use
of contrasting themes, how they develope and contrast, the dynamics and
tempi of the movements, etc. follow the structure of any classical sonata,
it's just performed using odd phonetic sounds instead of a western
classical instrument.
Given that the Ur Sonata so closely follows one of the strictest forms of
western classical music, what, if anything, makes it an avant garde work?
(Sorry for any duplication caused by this cross posting. A substantial
number of the people on <wr-eye-tings> aren't on <poetics>, and it seemed
that people on both lists might have something interesting to add to this
topic. If you think this will be unwieldy - some people (not very many & I
think you know who you are) will get messages twice - simply delete one (or
more) lists from the <to:> line in the address above if you respond.)
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 12:15:39 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: writings and last poets
herb writes:
>
> (Sorry for any duplication caused by this cross posting. A substantial
> number of the people on <wr-eye-tings> aren't on <poetics>, and it seemed
> that people on both lists might have something interesting to add to this
> topic. If you think this will be unwieldy - some people (not very many & I
> think you know who you are) will get messages twice - simply delete one (or
> more) lists from the <to:> line in the address above if you respond.)
>
>
what is <wr-eye-tings> and how does one subscribe, if it's a list?--md
also, i went to see the last poets about a week ago at First Ave., the club made
famous by Prince's movie Purple Rain in the 80s. the last poets were terrific,
their stuff still holds up 25 yrs later, and their new stuff, tho more look
within-ish than their Black Arts Movement era pieces, is powerful too. it was a
mixed crowd, lots of young Black men who were very moved and serious, pleased to
have their situation acknowledged in straight-ahead verse, breaking out in
spntaneous applause during "stop the madness." they were, incredibly, a warm up
act for a reggae group, so there was an incongruous line of white dreadhead guys
and chicks in the front row, swaying sultrily throughout the last poets' first
coupla numbers until they got the idea that this wasn't quite the idea. lots of
older folks too, from my era (60s and 70s) of varying ethnic affiliations. a
great show. i liked that the poets weren't glamorous, like most club acts.
they were just a trio of middle-aged hefty guys with great sonorous voices and
good verse.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 15:27:32 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Innovations & Traditions
Cage discussed the Ur Sonata at least once that I remember--
he used it as an example of the danger of someone with no musical training
undertaking composition. That there is a tendency for one to become enamored
of "simple" musical tricks. He didn't find it interesting, whether it's avant
garde or not. He mentioned this in relation to a lot of work being done with
synthesizers & such-- that even though many "new" sounds cld be produced with
them a great number of the people working with them were thinking in "old"
ways.
There's another since in which the Schwitters piece cld be considered garde
at least if not avant. A couple of muggers approached Schwitters in Berlin
demanding money-- he began performing a portion of the URSONATE at the top of
his lungs, this seriously freaked them, & they ran, w/out the money.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 16:18:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: avoidance behavior syndrome
So, David, you don't like the term "art" because avoidance of mystification
is lost by its use? The difficulty in defining "art" is because art is
fluid by nature (i.e. constantly changing). I'm sorry that this lack of
certitude causes you discomfort. Any useful tips on how to deal with
life's other uncertainies?
Best,
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 16:24:54 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Comments: To: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
On 1 Aug 95 at 8:59, Herb Levy wrote:
> Think how different "our" literary culture would be if many writers took on
> the formal rhythms of Lyn Hejinian's "My Life," the five-line stanzas of
> Barrett Watten's "Progress," or other structures & forms from language
> works of the 1980s, just as many people write sonnet sequences or workshop
> poems.
I've thought about this a lot (from my usual non-degreed, layman's
position). One problem shows up in how you posed the issue: the new
forms get viewed as the "turf" of one writer or another (in your
examples, Hejinian or Watten), and to use them is viewed as copping
another's style. I've kicked around the idea of using Cage's mesostic
form, but the method is so strongly connected to his work that it
would be hard to avoid looking like a slavish imitator in doing it.
This isn't a problem in doing, for example, sonnets and sestinas,
since the identity of the originators has (as far as i know) been
lost.
Of course, there is the interesting stuff that happens when someone
tries to use an existing form, gets it wrong, and creates something
new. (I've been accused of getting my musical ideas by a consistent
pattern of misunderstandings; what the hell, it works.)
I get some flack from fellow poets (or, well, fellow
people-who-write-things-that-they-read-at-open-mikes)
for openly admitting that what I do is directly influenced by this or
that other writer (Cage, Mac Low, Karl Shapiro, etc). Most of them
seem to think that they are being totally original in writing their
narrative vernacular three-minute-long free verse. *sigh*
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 14:59:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: writings and last poets
Comments: cc: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
>what is <wr-eye-tings> and how does one subscribe, if it's a list?--md
<wr-eye-tings> is a list that carl peters started with much discussion &
input from cris cheek. Some of this discussion was on <poetics> a while
back. It focuses on visual & sound poetry.
It's pretty quiet by <poetics> standards.
To subscribe:
send the following command in email to "Majordomo@sfu.ca":
subscribe wr-eye-tings
followed by your email address on the same line.
The Last Poets passed through town this winter, but I didn't like the
relatively new record very much, so I didn't go. Sounds like I made a
mistake. I hope they continue to tour.
Thanks for the report on their performance.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 22:50:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "GWYN M. MCVAY" <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
In-Reply-To: <199508012124.QAA13503@zoom.bga.com>
On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> I've thought about this a lot (from my usual non-degreed, layman's
> position). One problem shows up in how you posed the issue: the new
> forms get viewed as the "turf" of one writer or another (in your
> examples, Hejinian or Watten), and to use them is viewed as copping
> another's style. I've kicked around the idea of using Cage's mesostic
> form, but the method is so strongly connected to his work that it
> would be hard to avoid looking like a slavish imitator in doing it.
Hi, list. <She waves hello, takes a deep breath, and jumps in>
Joseph Zitt raises a good point. Are such allegations raised more often
against people who work with, for lack of a better word, "experimental"
poetries? When do Cage's mesostics or the Hejinian page from _My Life_
become formal "public domain" like the sestina?
Gwyn McVay
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 00:34:58 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Herb's asking some useful questions.
>Think how different "our" literary culture would be if many writers took on
>the formal rhythms of Lyn Hejinian's "My Life," the five-line stanzas of
>Barrett Watten's "Progress," or other structures & forms from language
>works of the 1980s, just as many people write sonnet sequences or workshop
>poems.
>
>Could these idiosyncratic forms become idioms in any functional way? What
>would it take for this to happen? Would it be a good thing?
I've had conversations with Bruce Andrews during which he's
asserted 'free improv' to be a 'folk' form - certainly some of its more
baleful mannerisms nowadays (although there remain outstanding
practitioners) are little different in their stilted 'mimesis' than the
proverbial finger in the ear of the 'do you ken John Peel' 'folk'
performer.
But at what point does tradition become perceptible as such?
It's a very slippery and therefore imperative question. Many live in
cultures and respond to communitites that tend (unwisely?) to foreground
'origination'. Many live in cultures and respond to communities that tend
to value ways to take traditions into the future.
Does the compliment of imitation / conscious influence
reveal the arrival of tradition? What values do different communitites
place on this process? Or is the prevailing emphasis remaindered on the
basis of discontinuous disposable 'new product' consumerism? Curious
paradoxes here.
The current Renga fever is a case in point:
collaborative branching processes that discuss community and difference as
they emerge, through considerable sometimes perhaps tolerant investments of
creative 'belief', into 'public' space and shared time.
A collective exploration of formal potential. Conscious
formation (intention) of community is present here - resonant with Spicer
and also SF Poets Theatre and Poets Conference in the UK?
Has composition by chance become a 'folk' art? Is Mail Art a 'folk' art. Is
Jazz 'folk'? Sparks across the seemingly 'parallel' tracks?
And lurking defintions of community and culture. As 'polis' entropes
towards diaspora and decentralisation. As orgies of fragmentation become
the norm.
whoa!
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 00:04:17 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa A Januzzi <jma5@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Gabriellesque
In-Reply-To: <199507221047.DAA22841@ix5.ix.netcom.com>
Hi there--
I got paid (!!!!!), so anyone who wants the interview can just ask me for
a copy of it backchannel-- as long as we remain in the single digits (#'s
of requests) I can handle the postage.
BTW-- did anyone else see the New York Times article on Stockhausen's
latest piece, written for the Arditti quartet quartered and vaulted aloft
in four miked helicopters? Apparently the effects upon descent were
wonderful......
go aereal renga bye for now-- Marisa <jma5@columbia.edu>
On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Ron Silliman wrote:
> Gabrielle,
>
> "If anyone wants the transcript (Loy/Vas Dias), just send me
> postage..."
>
> So where do we send this postage? Do get back up on email. It's very
> confusing to see you channeled hither and yon.
>
> All best,
> Ron
> rsillima@ix.netcom.com
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 04:50:03 EDT
Reply-To: beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: beard@MET.CO.NZ
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Herb wrote:
>Think how different "our" literary culture would be if many writers took on
>the formal rhythms of Lyn Hejinian's "My Life," the five-line stanzas of
>Barrett Watten's "Progress," or other structures & forms from language
>works of the 1980s, just as many people write sonnet sequences or workshop
>poems.
>Could these idiosyncratic forms become idioms in any functional way? What
>would it take for this to happen? Would it be a good thing?
I think that it does happen, if not with the precise structures then with the
_concept_ of idiosyncratic forms, and certainly with vocabulary. For example,
what are the poetic effects of using abbreviations (such as "yr", "sd", "th"
etc.)? I think they may have originally given an anti-"poetic" memo-like
quality to the writing (are they derived from telegrams?), but when I read them
in contemporary work, they appear to me as an idiom, almost a clichi. They say
"I wanna be Olson/Creeley". Perhaps we'll see internet abbreviations (IMHO,
BTW, RTFM etc) appearing in poetry soon. We probably already do.
>It's simply a different
>thing for someone to write a canzone, a sestina, or a sonnet sequence
>several hundred years after it was a functional poetic form within the
>culture. It's no longer part of a living culture, it's a marketing
>strategy.
I agree that writing a sonnet sequence now is a different act from writing one
several hundred years ago when such structures were de rigeur. I'm not sure,
however, that the sonnet ever ceased to be "living culture" or "a functional
poetic form". An art form doesn't have to be either part of mass culture or
avant garde in order to remain alive. People are still writing symphonies after
Cage and sestinas after Olson.
Even if one does choose a form that has fallen into disuse within one's culture
or was never part of it (such as a ghazal), there are a range of possibilities
other than "marketing strategy". Maybe one is, consciously or otherwise,
placing oneself within a tradition by writing a Petrarchan sonnet, a
Ginsbergian rant, or yet another Catullus poem. All that one is doing is
saying "this is where I'm coming from", in the same way that a hip-hop artist
might sample a James Brown riff. Or one could be putting forward a challenge to
that tradition, in the way that Michele Leggott's sonnet sequence _Blue Irises_
challenges the tradition of the male sonneteer. By using a form or genre,
one's poem can economically allude to everything written in that style, in the
way that Merwins _Elegy_ speaks of and to every elegy that has been written.
In either case, the form is saying something. Form signifies. Form is never
_less_ than an extension of content.
The final option is to use a "dead" form purely for its formal possibilities.
Of course, the reader is free to read homage or challenge into your poem, even
if you'd only thought "Ooh, I like that syllabic pattern!" when you chose a
14-th century Moroccan courtship song as your model.
Anyway, what's wrong with a marketing strategy? :-)
Tom.
______________________________________________________________________________
I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
I am/a dark place. | beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://metcon.met.co.nz/
and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 22:31:21 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: rengala
>> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > >Rack of lambent jingoism, carving the exemplar's demise
>> > Hurricane Eden and evening is nigh []~`\)<-
>> Inside, inside! This syndetic material is killing me.
A blase malediction presses outstretched
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 05:41:31 EDT
Reply-To: beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: beard@MET.CO.NZ
Subject: Re: the feminine
Maria wrote:
>these denominations, "feminine" and "masculine," it seems, are simply
>ways of noting --or creating --difference. masculinity is associated w/
>aggression, femininity with docility or gentleness, without much thoughtful
>attention to the empirical world. it's just a crude shorthand for perceived
>opposition.
and Steve replied that there were three options:
>1. To keep them but divorce them from gender altogether (as yin and yang
>originally referred not to gender but to the mossy unmossy side of a tree).
>This is what I was trying to get to, and I didn't quite make it in my post,
>which is what riled you, I think.
>2. To keep them in a concept of gender but to expand beyond a binary
>opposition of genders (I just read an article last month in the S.F. Bay
>Guardian [I believe; maybe it was the Weekly] about certain geneticists who
>believe that, biologically speaking, there are perhaps 5 human genders, and
>Dodie's quoted material seems to me to dovetail with this notion in more
>ontological terms.
>3. Forget the whole thing and go back to our caves.
Well, I hope it's not (3). There was a flamewar on the wine mailing list a few
months back when someone used the word "feminine" to describe a wine (I think
it was a red Burgundy), and I think that no matter how hard we try the first
option, the gender connotations will cling on to the words, at least for the
next century or so. One cannot take a word apart like a car engine, replace an
old part that rattles and belches malodorous smoke, then put the whole thing
back together.
It's a pity, because I think that I've a pretty good idea what a "feminine"
wine tastes and smells like, and hence it would seem a useful term. But I find
the implications of calling a floral, delicate Beaujolais "feminine" and a
hefty, muscular Shiraz "masculine" somewhat offensive. It might be better to
define "feminine" as "having properties analogous to the social norms for women
in mid-20th Century Western culture" (and similar for "masculine"), but words
have a habit of wandering away from their "official" definitions. Get back
here!
Perhaps we could just use the terms "aggressive" vs "gentle", if that's what we
mean. We'd lose a lot of the subtle connotations of fem vs masc, but we're not
going to imply that all men are aggressive and all women gentle just by using
the words outside of a gender context. Maybe this is similar to the "soul"
debate: if a word is likely to cause misunderstanding or offense, then perhaps
it is wiser to avoid using that word with a given audience, and find a
substitute.
As an aside, I once sat (at my employers' request) a personality test called (I
think) the California Personality Inventory. After answering 400 True/False
questions, I was summed up as ten numbers, each of which placed me somewhere on
a scale between two binary opposites. One of these scales was labelled either
Masculine/Feminine or Task-oriented/People-oriented (the latter is now the
preferred labelling). Interestingly, I was considered unusually feminine.
Tom.
______________________________________________________________________________
I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
I am/a dark place. | beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://metcon.met.co.nz/
and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 03:17:41 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: folks & forms
Herb Levy wrote:
>While it's true that older folk forms have become increasingly calcified, I
>think this is more part of an ongoing historic process than a result of
>"the 20th Century." Once people are writing in a form that they learn by
>rote rather than through an active community practice, you've got problems.
Herb,
certainly it is "an ongoing historic process" but I wonder if this
"calcification is increased in 20th century capitalist society, particularly
due to this question of "active community practice." I mean it seems no
accident that various, often economically marginalized "subcultures" wld be
the lively areas-- places, perhaps, where community & therefore individual
expression is not so proscribed. Though that's what you seem to be saying,
sort of, in the rest of your post.
But this question of taking on the forms of _My Life_ or _Progress_, well (1)
I think it is happening, quite a bit. There are a lot of good little
magazines publishing tons of folks influenced by language (almost put the
word influenced in quotes, but why? Yeah I'm influenced & I'm a ding dadd
proud of it) -- some of them wld be _Proliferation_, _Impercipient_,
_Phoebe_, _Object_, _Avec_, _Black Bread_, _Antyneme_, _Prosodia_, _Open 24
Hours_, & even, of course, _Apex of the M_ (they just choose to articulate it
in a more oedipal manner) (2) This question of whether it wld be good, or is
good: aesthetically, yes, I think it's good, more people trying more kinds of
things, but I'm not sure I wld extend that to any form being "intrinsically"
good-- I can imagine these modes of writing becoming accepted, canonized,
codified, as much as any other kind of writing, which wouldn't be good. In
that situation one might make the radical gesture of writing a canzone.
Berrigan & then Mayer made the sonnet new. At the same time there is the
aspect of the aesthetic we're discussing articulated in, say, L.H.'s "The
Rejection of Closure" which might be, & has been, fodder for an argument
that this aesthetic is inherently superior. I'm not entirely unconvinced by
that, it is the aesthetic, broadly speaking, I choose to work in. I suppose
it's a matter of art's ability to change our perceptions of the world. &
whether "open form" is good, or better. . . I don't think one can hierarchize
it, that's probably what we can/should/might learn from it. Does "open form"
spell "open mind," *really*?-- there are foolish folks as well as fabulous
people writing in these forms, maybe this is our open fate.
--Rod
Herb Levy also wrote:
>Think how different "our" literary culture would be if many writers took on
>the formal rhythms of Lyn Hejinian's "My Life," the five-line stanzas of
>Barrett Watten's "Progress," or other structures & forms from language
>works of the 1980s, just as many people write sonnet sequences or workshop
>poems.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 03:58:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & mesostics
I've written some things using mesostics. One was a writing through _Fun with
Dick & Jane_, not exactly something one can easily imagine J.C. doing. I
don't think we should worry abt being thought derivative, every writer is.
But it will be new,
not as a result of a glorification of the new, but as a result of occupying a
different time. Stein sd something like that in one of the Lectures in
America. It wld be interesting to see a writer come along & choose the
mesostic form exclusively, really dedicate themselves to it, in the wake of
what John did, & to read their work in relation to him.
Re whether such allegations are raised more against "experimantal" writers
with regard to imitation. Maybe. But hey, go 'head, allegate. It's whether
the work's doing something or not that matters I think. I think these forms
become public domain as soon as they're made use of. Maybe we should write a
"renga" in sentence form on here called "Our Life."
--Rod
Joe Zitt wrote:
>new forms get viewed as the "turf" of one writer or another (in your
>examples, Hejinian or Watten), and to use them is viewed as copping
>another's style. I've kicked around the idea of using Cage's mesostic
form, but the method is so strongly connected to his work that >it
>would be hard to avoid looking like a slavish imitator in doing it.
>This isn't a problem in doing, for example, sonnets and sestinas,
>since the identity of the originators has (as far as i know) been
>lost.
Gwyn Mcvay wrote:
>Joseph Zitt raises a good point. Are such allegations raised more often
>against people who work with, for lack of a better word, "experimental"
>poetries? When do Cage's mesostics or the Hejinian page from _My Life_
>become formal "public domain" like the sestina?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 22:01:47 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <950730130027_126320228@aol.com>
On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Jordan Davis. wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 22:14:52 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199507310720.AAA26333@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:17:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Innovations & Traditions
"A substantial number of the people on <wr-eye-tings> aren't on
<poetics>, and it seemed that people on both lists might have something
interesting to add to this topic."
Some of us don't even know what wr-eye-tings is (or are). Please
elucidate!
Ron
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:25:42 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 31 Jul 1995 to 1 Aug 1995
In-Reply-To: <199508020737.IAA22453@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
I've been away for some weeks and am just picking up the ripples of past
conversations (rather like walking into a pub just before closing time).
FOLK/RHYTHM
Recognising the tendency of "professional" folk music to ossify these
days, we must recognise that it were'nt always so, and indeed on some
occasions it was the transmission process which caused ossification to
set in: c.1900 Cecil Sharp was having his transcriptions greeted with
academic incredulity: one musicologist actually said "no peasant could
think in compound time". Despite the mass of evidence to the contrary.
Being based Suffolk, Chris, you might know the Ship Inn at Blaxhall -
famous folksinging community right up to the sixties, totally ignoring
(and ignored by) the neighbouring haut musique of Britten etc. It's
described in G.Dunn: The Fellowship of Song (1980) (more of a
sociological survey).
The point is that the singers of Blaxhall & environs wouldn't just copy
songs they'd heard from other people: they felt they had to "move into
them" somehow, make them their own (am I out of line to relate this to the
"bardic" transmission process? Certainly it relates to my own abhorance of
"cover bands"...). This process was a lengthy one, could take months or
years until someone felt able to sing one they'd had from another, and
involved varying words (obviously), tune and rhythm. The rhythms and
inflections they used (as for all of us) came from around them. So, the
songs are organic and have a life of their own - until the folk orthodoxy
comes along to hammer these things into the "correct" versions...
NATIONAL POETRY WEEK
I'm sorry to see the US is going through this: I'd hoped the dismal flop
of our own National Poetry Day (shopwindow for the Glynn Maxwells and
Simon Armitages of this world) would be the end of it. I assume it's being
sponsored by the major publishers as a hype opportunity? Good luck to
anyone who organises anything outside that context: over here we advised
people to stay indoors and wait till it passed. There was even a National
Poetry Day Defence Committee (based in Cambridge) which put out some "How
to survive National Poetry Day" flyers.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x x
x Richard Caddel, E-mail: R.I.Caddel @ durham.ac.uk x
x Durham University Library, Phone: 0191 374 3044 x
x Stockton Rd. Durham DH1 3LY Fax: 0191 374 7481 x
x x
x "Words! Pens are too light. Take a chisel to write." x
x - Basil Bunting x
x x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 09:34:23 EDT
Reply-To: beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: beard@MET.CO.NZ
Subject: Corrections: in the beginning was MS Word.
Oh well, I'm afraid I've got nothing to say at the moment about folk music, the
feminine, or the soul, so there's nothing for it but to post some poetry :-)
Based upon the idea of phonetic translation, I tried feeding some foreign-
-language poetry through my word-processor's spelling checker, and seeing what
IT thought the correct spellings should be. The results were intriguing, if
only for finding out the bizzare vocabs that these programs have - how did
"Hyundai" get in there?!? Some of them also came out with an, ahem, anatomical
bent.
Most of the originals should be quite familiar. The first one is especially
easy to guess; with the last two, I've also "corrected" the titles to make it
easier.
Noel mezzo dell caiman die nostril vita
my retrieve per ulna salvo Oscar
she lad dirtier via era smarter.
Ash quarto a dire quail era I cosier dour
ester salvo selvage I aspire a forte
she noel penises rhino lab Peru!
Taunt a amore she pogo I pie Morse;
ma per tartar deli bean chi's vie trivia,
dirt dell alter chose chi VHF scrota.
Quad lei cell bass eat loud pees come urn coverall
Sour lest geminate on prior ox longs ennui's,
Eat queue die horizon embarrassment tout let cereal
Ill onus verse urn juror plus tryst queue lease units;
Quad lay terry set change in urn cachet humped,
Our Esperanto, comma tune shaver sours,
Zen vat butternut less moors do son aisle timed
It SAE cognisant lay teeth a does palinodes pours;
Quad lay plume elating sees immunises trainees
Dune vase prison mite loess barium,
Eat quo people mute infamies arraigned
Vienna tenure sets filets auk fond die noose cervix,
Des cloches tout a coup stunt aver furry
It lancet veers Leo coil urn affect Harlem,
Heinz queer deeps esprit's errands it sane party
Quiz see mutant a gender opine tremens.
- Set be longs core billiards, sand tambourines nix mosque,
Defoliant sentiment Danes moon ammo; lessor,
Venice, pleasure, it lingoes aorta, despotic,
Surf mown crane incline pliant son drupe nor.
Precise I ell aide
Sue lung die persimmon
Prices toccata vines
poor urn amphibian sender
do crystallise I laurels.
Ell silence sin esters,
Hyundai deal sonnet,
cake donned eel mar bate I chanter
us gnocchi Elena do peaches.
On loss pieces dye lab sierra
loose carbines doormen
guarantee lasso blinks tortes
downed vixen louse ingress.
Herb's tag
Heir: is sit zest. Deer sombre war sheer gross.
Leg denizen station auk sine sauna neurone,
undo of den florin lass die windy louse.
Befell den lesson further vole zoo sienna;
gibe inhere notch sew suede lichen tag,
drainage she fur volley dung hind undue jade
die latest Sussex in den shrewd weenie.
Where jets Kevin hauls hat, baud Sikh keenness mohair.
Wear jets alien sit, wired is flange bellboy,
wiry wheaten, lesion, lunge brief shriven
undo wild in den alley hid undue her
unhurried wander, wean die bladder tribune.
______________________________________________________________________________
I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
I am/a dark place. | beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://metcon.met.co.nz/
and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:41:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Cris,
T'ain't a folk art until the communist party adopts it as a means of
reachin' Da People.
May orgies of fragmentation become your norm,
Ron
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:52:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:54:34 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 09:12:26 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
In-Reply-To: <199508020941.CAA09949@ix7.ix.netcom.com> from "Ron Silliman" at
Aug 2, 95 02:41:53 am
cris,
obviously none of those avant-garde forms you mention have become
"folk" art. However, one of the classic 20C avant-garde techniques,
the Surrealists' exquisite corpse (as drawing or language-game) has
achieved some kind of status as generally available social
entertainment. (but obviously the game of telephone kids play is older
than the cadavre exquis).
Pierre
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 09:28:32 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Free Verse Soot
David, Jonathan et alia,
The ancient Greeks did not distinguish as we do between art and technology
(techne). Is that what D Thomas was playing off of in the line that was
quoted. Now, would these same ancients have linked belief to making? I think
so, at least in principle. So where does this leave us?
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:36:26 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: Renga 1
Comments: To: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
On 2 Aug 95 at 2:52, Ron Silliman wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
In the changing wind, dollops of wordfoam spinning toward the veil
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 11:41:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <9508012118.AA22427@infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us>
On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Jonathan Brannen wrote:
> So, David, you don't like the term "art" because avoidance of mystification
> is lost by its use? The difficulty in defining "art" is because art is
> fluid by nature (i.e. constantly changing). I'm sorry that this lack of
> certitude causes you discomfort. Any useful tips on how to deal with
> life's other uncertainies?
None at all: I was using "mystification" in a political sense, not in the
sense of uncertainty. Therefore I think you misread my point, or perhaps
I didn't state it well. I do not avoid the term "art" because it's "fluid
by nature," but rather because its associations in the case of poetry so
often lead to a variety of forms of copping out, throwing up of the hands
when it comes to describing how poetry operates in culture. This is NOT a
rejection of fluidity. So what if art is constantly changing? So's
everything else, and I (obviously) don't avoid language entirely. Rather,
I find myself pulled into a game of artistic fort/da whenever I encounter
the term "art" used actively ("here" art is, "here" art isn't). And it's
tiring. David don't play that game.
My point is similar to the one Charles Bernstein made some time ago (was
it at the Alabama symposium?) about preferring the term "writer" to
"poet": poet has a lot of baggage, or did then. (I don't know if he still
holds to this; he seems to have gotten more poet-friendly in this regard
of late.)
I avoid the term "art" because it's not a construction I'm comfortable
with, not because art changes. In fact, change is precisely the point: I
find the inherited vocabulary of "art" (that is, an aesthetic vocabulary)
inadequate for describing historical changes in poetry. You can go ahead
and use the term -- I'm speaking only for myself. For me, nothing is
gained by the term, and much is lost.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg The moment is at hand.
University Writing Program Take one another
Duke University and eat.
Durham, NC 27708
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:43:24 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: Renga 1
adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 11:57:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
In-Reply-To: <199508012124.QAA13503@zoom.bga.com>
On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> Of course, there is the interesting stuff that happens when someone
> tries to use an existing form, gets it wrong, and creates something
> new. (I've been accused of getting my musical ideas by a consistent
> pattern of misunderstandings; what the hell, it works.)
That's Harold Bloom's theories in a nutshell. ;-)
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg The moment is at hand.
University Writing Program Take one another
Duke University and eat.
Durham, NC 27708
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 12:53:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Free Verse Soot
In-Reply-To: <00994442.CC6E2EF8.3@admin.njit.edu>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT wrote:
> The ancient Greeks did not distinguish as we do between art and technology
> (techne). Is that what D Thomas was playing off of in the line that was
> quoted. Now, would these same ancients have linked belief to making? I think
> so, at least in principle. So where does this leave us?
Could you repost the Thomas quote? It seemed to have slipped by me.
You translate *techne* as technology? Not as our technology certainly,
but...
Anyway, good point; as for me, it leaves me happily blurring the line
between art and, say, gardening. Or using a jackhammer. I'm reminded of
the continuity -- not division -- posited by Elaine Scarry in her book
*The Body in Pain* between "making-up" and "making-real." What others are
calling "art" straddles both these categories. But so do most other
things. Scarry's is a way of talking that avoids the art/not art division
yet manages to make some profound connections about culture as a whole.
Speaking of which, has anybody read this? I've often thought this was
utterly brilliant, the book to beat in recent philosophy and a possible
ground for a whole theory of culture, but I've not had the energy to write
much on it directly aside from a scattering here and there. But I seem to
be the only one.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg The moment is at hand.
University Writing Program Take one another
Duke University and eat.
Durham, NC 27708
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 11:52:52 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
Renegade and flightless, board of common prayer aside
Retires a diplomat with "the Prussian blues" - misconstrual
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 14:05:27 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <9508021752.AA74967@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> Renegade and flightless, board of common prayer aside
> Retires a diplomat with "the Prussian blues" - misconstrual
but doesn't bother to misconstrue itself and then
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 19:04:30 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Yes Ric, know something of the Blaxhall Ship's crew. Was
drinking Barley Mow at The Eel's Foot just last Saturday, a drunken stagger
of an environs away, where Jumbo Brightwell held court with his elder
brother Velvet during the '50s. His LP on Topic was titled 'Songs From The
Eel's Foot' - how about that for a response to 'where does it come
from?'.
Know singer who travelled and sang regularly with
Brightwell. One night he heard a 'version' of Jack Barleycorn he'd never
heard the like of before - came, 'out of the blue'. Asked if he could
have the song and got words in post on back of old birthday card - says
you have to try to embody a new melody like trajectory of lightning. Only
version remotely like it - even from Brightwell - he ever heard. Given
some of the house ales in these parts who knows. Memory and event in the
compost of time.
A different process from the bardic apprenticeship, which is
closer to drum knowledge as Arona N'Diaye described his learning to me once
- given rhythm (aged 6 or so) and return to repeat that rhythm, hold it
'down' for 30-40 minutes without letting it 'go'. The requirement to do
that, sent away with same rhythm if not, before being given another rhythm.
A thorough and prolonged process of embodiment.
Living traditions - social gifts - folk math - ephemera -
this list.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 19:04:43 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
>May orgies of fragmentation become your norm,
Do Ron, I misheard August bodies bareing their navigable standards
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 13:13:05 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 13:29:29 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: rengala
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
Rack of lambent jingoism, carving the exemplar's demise
Hurricane Eden and evening is nigh []~`\)<-
Inside, inside! This syndetic material is killing me.
A blase malediction presses outstretched
Icons of address: "Etiquette, please!" Trainslated said
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 19:51:12 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Hi Pierre, guess I'd argue that Jazz has generated forms
that have become 'folk', much as Blues and Rock have also?
In poetry I'd suggest 'Hallmark' (i know we've had that
discussion already) and Slams and that Renga form that evolved on the
Buffalo Poetics list sometime in the mid 1990s. How those, at first
tentative, variegated leaf forms became whole branches of prosodic
community generating rangey glossolalia among social migrations at early
twenty first century gatherings is one of the most notable examples of the
movement from written to oral I know. It suggests that writing affects
speech with more subtlety than formerly thought.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 16:13:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <9508021913.AA56214@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 14:19:38 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: renga 1
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
What a handjob, eh. Don't worry the fallacy, wit will
shrivel it.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 16:20:09 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: rengala
In-Reply-To: <9508021929.AA19802@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> Rack of lambent jingoism, carving the exemplar's demise
> Hurricane Eden and evening is nigh []~`\)<-
> Inside, inside! This syndetic material is killing me.
> A blase malediction presses outstretched
> Icons of address: "Etiquette, please!" Trainslated said
ka mi zu --"north of the genitals and holding"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 17:07:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga 1
In-Reply-To: <9508022019.AA62575@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> What a handjob, eh. Don't worry the fallacy, wit will
> shrivel it or my name is not Imitates-Brown-Ear
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 16:40:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
David,
I understand your position much better since you've restated it. The
term "art" does carry a lot of baggage much of which one would prefer
not to be burdened with. "Art" does elude easy definition which makes
it vulnerable to misrepresentation. Certainly the freshman Republican
representatives have found it an easy target. I don't mean to align
you with that group, but I do question the wisdom of surrendering the
use of the term "art" rather than reclaiming it. I raise this
question for myself precisely because I get bored too easily to see
the appeal of defining what art is or isn't and what is or isn't art.
Best,
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 17:01:34 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Free Verse Soot
David,
The Thomas quote was: "The tricks are easy, it's the art that's difficult."
In context he was saying that it's easy to learn how to write a poem, it's
hard to write a good one.
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 22:00:19 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: other folk
OK I'll go right over the top, since I'm heading that way
with Jazz and Blues and Rock as twentieth century urban 'folk'.
I'd like to throw in 'raves' (don't know if you have quite
the euro fever in the states) / 'football chants' and maybe sports chants
and expressions more generally such as the reinforced society of the
spectacle critique evidenced in the 'mexican wave' / 'graffitti' / 'rap' /
'calypso' / 'carnival' (anyone read the excellent 'Carnival in Romans' by
Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie - I know it's another source of carnival - when
a peasants' revolt both succeeded and was then in turn violently repressed
during the course of one long carnival celebration with much Machiavellian
use of mask) / 'surfboarding' (etc) and their 'folk' 'arts' and specialist
languages cf Kathy Bigelow's movie 'Point Break' (or something close to
that title?) and Michael Davidson's article in Poetics Journal / 'the Aids
Quilt' / various campaigns 'greenham women', 'dongas' (you'll have your own
examples) / MUD and MOOs / tattoos and piercings (a paradox herein) / & &
& ? ? ? what else
This could easily lead back into discussions of sampling and copyright. How
about common ownership and community versioning as oppositional forces
within cultures fetishised onto the chimaera of 'origination'?
Not proposing anything here other than continuing and rangey discussions
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 09:53:20 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
as with other discussions, e.g. of "literature" , "art" appears to be
the term for that which has been or is in the process of being
considered for a canon. I call my "wrtitings" "Art" or "Poems", when
I want them to be considered for a canon. But a message about plums
on the fridge door...?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 18:21:49 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
Renegade and flightless, board of common prayer aside
Retires a diplomat with "the Prussian blues" - misconstrual
but doesn't bother to misconstrue itself and then
drinkin' eel foot at the barley mow just last saturday i
detected an anomalous rhythmicity nuncupating our otherwise
tearfully drear decorum of the dead letter dance
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 18:21:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 18:21:39 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950802112414.15486A-100000@soc4.acpub.duke.edu>
from "David Kellogg" at Aug 2, 95 11:41:40 am
I have found that the only people who avoid words like "art" on
egalitarian terms are the privileged, university profs and the like.
My brother-in-law wouldnt. And his job is putting together RVs. He
would never call that art, either.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:42:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <mroberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: AWOL: Extra August Happenings List
Comments: To: Mark Roberts <MRoberts@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Extra August Happenings!!!
Due to AWOL being off line for most of July a few events slipped through our=
fingers. This extra posting for August will help to bring us (and you) up=
to date.=20
Australian Writing OnLine
AWOL Happenings. A monthly guide to readings, book launches, conferences
and other events relating to Australian literature both within Australia
and overseas. If you have any item which you would like included in future
listings please contact AWOL.
AWOL is setting up a 'Virtual Bookshop' for Australian small magazines and
presses. This will take the form of regular newsletters (which will be
available both on the net and by mail and fax) which will pre/review new
publications. This titles will then be able to be ordered by mail or fax.
Associated with our Virtual Bookshop is our Sydney distribution service for
small presses. Please contact us for further details if you want to
distribute your publication to bookshops in Sydney.
AWOL can be contacted by email at MRoberts@extro.ucc.su.oz.au, by writing
to AWOL, PO Box 333, Concord NSW 2137, Australia, by faxing 61 2 747 2802
or by phoning 61 2 747 5667.
AWOL posts are archived on the WWW at the following address
http://www.anatomy.su.oz.au/danny/books/index.html
then click on Australian Writing OnLine.
************************************************************************
READINGS VICTORIA
La Mama Poetica, Monday, August 21st 8.00pm featuring Mal Morgan, Katherine=
Gallagher=20
(who is now residing in the U.K. so this is a rare opportunity to hear her=
latest work) and=20
cabaret artist, Barbara Quicksand. For details contact Catherine Bateson Ph=
(03) 9383 5677.
*******************************************************************
QUEENSLAND WRITERS' CENTRE EVENTS
EXCITING WRITING: READINGS OF NEW WORKS AT THE QUEENSLAND=20
WRITERS' CENTRE
Tuesday 22 August Vox Populi with Peter Anderson. Phil Brown, and Jackie=
Mckimmie.=20
Chaired by Michael Doneman. $10 for (QWC members) $15 (non members).=20
Ph 07 839 1243 for details.
Coming up on 3 October. 7pm....WARANA: PARADISE OR PARANOIA with Andrew=20
McGahn, Robbie Lappan, Matthew Condon, Fran Ross, Marcus Gibson, Michael=
Richards,=20
Gary Crew and Laurie Muller. This reading takes place at the Grand Orbit=
nightclub and tickets=20
must be booked before the event. Contact QWC for further details.
BRISBANE: CITY OF WORDS
Brisbane: City of Words is an 8 week course beginning on Wednesday 9 August=
which will take participants on a journey through contemporary novels set=
largely in Brisbane. Taught by Vivienne Muller and Adam Shoemaker the=
course will look at Jessica Anderson Tirra Lirra by the River, David Malouf=
Johnno & 12 Edmonstone Street, Sam Watson The Kadaicha Sung, Angelika Fremd=
The Glass Inferno, Venero Armanno Romeo of the Underworld, Janet Turner=
Hospital Charades and the Last Magician, Andrew McGahan Praise and Rosie=
Scott Lives on Fire.
The course will take the form of lectures, discussion, text video and=
interview materials. It will be held on Wednesday evenings from 6-8pm at=
the Queensland Writers' Centre 535 Wickham Terrace Brisbane 4000. Cost is=
$120 (QWC members) $160 (non members) includes the cost of a special Word=
City Dinner during Warana Writers' Week in the company of one of the=
featured authors.
=46or further details contact QWC (07) 839 1243 Ph, or (07) 839 1245 fax.
CHILDREN'S BOOK WEEK 1995 21-25 AUGUST: VISIT BY GED MAYBURY
Ged Maybury is one of New Zealand's most successful and established writers=
of young adult science fiction novels. His work includes Timetwister,=
Silicone Stew, The Triggerstone and the Star Tropper Series (all published=
by Ashton Scholastic). His Robemasters of Noogiya series is being published=
by Harper Collins. Triggerstone, his latest book, has been nominated for=
the New Zealand AIM Children's book awards.
Ged Maybury will be available at the Queensland Writers' Centre from Monday=
21 August to Friday 25 August for four sessions daily. Cost $65 (QWC=
members) and $75 (non-members) each. Pre-paid bookings only please. For=
further details contact QWC.
NOW AVAILABLE FROM THE QUEENSLAND WRITERS' CENTRE...... HANDBOOK FOR=
QUEENSLAND WRITERS.=20
Contents include Preparation, Representation, Professional Issues and=
Development and Funding. Cost $10 plus $1.50 postage for QWC members 0r=
$15 plus $1.50 for non members. For more information contact the QWC.
*******************************************************************
EVENTS AT THE NSW WRITERS' CENTRE
=46EATURE READINGS AT THE NSW WRITERS' CENTRE=20
=46eature Readings will replace the Rozelle Readings. The August lineup is=
Daniel Harbour, Patricia Gaut, Matthew Holt and Sabrina Achilles. Friday 25=
August 7.30pm Wine/Supper $5 and $3 (conc). NSW Writers' Centre, Rozelle=
Hospital Grounds, Balmain Road Rozelle. For Further information contact=
NSWWC (02) 5559757 or fax (02)8181327
TEN WEEK WRITING COURSE WITH TUTOR AND CONVENOR SUSAN HAMPTON
This ten week course will cover any type of writing from prose, poetry and=
scripts to non-fiction and monologues. The first meeting will be held on=
Thursday 31 August from 6.30pm to 9.30pm. Cost $150 (NSWWC members) $200=
(non-members) for booking information contact the centre (02) 5559757 or=
fax (02)8181327.
COMING UP AT THE NSW WRITERS' CENTRE....SPRING WRITING WEEKEND a two day=
literary festival featuring a mix of established and emerging writers.=
September 16-17 at the NSWWC. For further details contact NSWWC (02)=
5559757 or fax (02)8181327.=20
***************************************************************
CONFERENCES
INTERNATIONAL P.E.N. 62nd WORLD CONGRESS
26 October - 1 November, 1995 at the Esplanade Hotel, Fremantle, W.A.
This Congress will be one of the most important literary and cultural events=
ever staged in Australia. The Congress will seek to explore the issue of=
freedom of speech in relation to different cultural contexts. It will also=
include literary readings, discussions and performances of Aboriginal=
culture, an International Quiz Night, a Hypothetical and many events=
designed to be fun!
Speakers will include Ronald Harwood (England), Goenawan Mohamad=
(Indonesia), Keki Daruwalla (India), George Aditjondro (Indonesia),=
Satendra Nandan (Australia-Fiji), Samina Yasmeen (Australia-Pakistan), Beth=
Yahp (Australia-Malaysia), Andrey Voznesensky (Russia), Ilsa Sharp (Austral=
ia-Singapore), Sally Morgan and Jill Milroy, Elizabeth Jolley, Judith=
Rodriguez, Tom Shapcott, and many more.=20
The Congress is open to anyone interested in literature and culture, and in=
the issue of Freedom of Speech. For the full programme and other details,=
please contact Promaco Conventions, Ph. 09. 364.8311, Fax 09.316.1453; or=
your local PEN Centre, or the Perth PEN Centre, PO. Box 1131 Subiaco,=
Australia 6008, Ph. & Fax: 09.381.8306. Expressions of interest in=
membership of PEN are also warmly welcomed, and should be addressed to the=
PEN Centre. PEN works for freedom of speech and on behalf of writers in pri=
son.
COUNTRY FESTIVAL OF WRITING SHEPPARTON VICTORIA
25 -27 August Readings and workshops by Elizabeth Jolly, Liam Davison, Myron=
Lysenko, Maureen McCarthy, Judith Rodriguez, Georgina Savage and more. For=
program details and booking form send SSAE to Country Festival of Writing,=
Box 2115, Shepparton Victoria 3632 or contact Hugh Oakes on (058) 9216663.
SECOND NATIONAL BOOK SUMMIT
31 August- 1 September 'The Book Idea...imagination, information and access'=
hosted by the National Book Council at the Sheraton Hotel, 13 Spring=
Street, Melbourne. For further information contact the Executive Director,=
National Book Council Ph (03) 6638655 or fax 6638658.
****************************************************************************=
*
While AWOL makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of Happenings listing
we suggest you confirm dates, times and venue.
AWOL would like to thank the following organisation who provided
information for this list:
NSW Writers Centre, Queensland Writers Centre, La Mama Poetica, AusLit=
discussion=20
group (internet), WIPround (Women in Publishing) and the other individuals a=
nd
organisations who supplied information about their events directly to AWOL.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 00:57:53 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 22:15:36 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <950803005751_46827563@aol.com>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 05:58:38 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <9508030021.AA54367@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> Renegade and flightless, board of common prayer aside
> Retires a diplomat with "the Prussian blues" - misconstrual
> but doesn't bother to misconstrue itself and then
> drinkin' eel foot at the barley mow just last saturday i
> detected an anomalous rhythmicity nuncupating our otherwise
> tearfully drear decorum of the dead letter dance
I have no time to consecrate the private parts
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 06:29:29 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508030121.SAA12532@bob.indirect.com>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> >
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 06:33:58 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <950803005751_46827563@aol.com>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
between the times that the viewer spoke to the screen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 06:36:50 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950802221438.70C-100000@uhunix2.its.Hawaii.Edu>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
propelling you to the day without answers or questions
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 08:11:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <199508030121.SAA03320@fraser.sfu.ca>
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> I have found that the only people who avoid words like "art" on
> egalitarian terms are the privileged, university profs and the like.
> My brother-in-law wouldnt. And his job is putting together RVs. He
> would never call that art, either.
His loss. But I'm hardly privileged, or a prof (though I may be "the
like," I don't know). For me the main difference between graduate school
and having finished is that my loans are due. "Dominated fraction of the
dominant class," as Bourdieu says -- sure; but the privileges continue to
elude me.
Besides, it was not for "egalitarian" reasons that I avoid words like art
(or poetry). It's for pragmatic ones: namely, I think I can learn more
without it than with.
Jeez, did I open a can 'o something.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg The moment is at hand.
University Writing Program Take one another
Duke University and eat.
Durham, NC 27708
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 08:59:10 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "GWYN M. MCVAY" <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <950803005751_46827563@aol.com>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
green glass, a rippled trapezoid slab, unmeant as
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 09:05:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950803085835.13022D-100000@osf1.gmu.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, GWYN M. MCVAY wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
>
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> green glass, a rippled trapezoid slab, unmeant as
it pushed the new look through light blood
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 10:55:48 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Tony et alia,
"ars longa, vita brevis."
- Horace
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne [. . .]."
Chaucer
"Art new, hurt old: revealing [. . .]."
Zukofsky
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:35:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa A Januzzi <jma5@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508030604.D539989028-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
> > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > >
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:30:07 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: Renga 1
on August 2 Sheila E. Murphy (& others) wrote:
> >
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:36:41 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: Renga 1
Comments: To: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
On 2 Aug 95 at 18:21, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> >
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
Weatherless birds, featherless biped bones conspired into song
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:53:58 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: Renga 1
On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > >
> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 10:31:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
There's been a lot added to this thread since I've had a chance to respond.
This is a digest of responses to lots of different folks.
Perhaps the "problem" with identifying the inventor of the sonnet isn't
just that the name is lost amidst (in the mists of) history. Instead it may
have to do with the fact that there was a community of artists working
together out of which the various troubador forms arose, similar to the
development of, say blues or bebop or photography.
In other words, ou can point to the group from which these things arose,
but you can't really single out one person as the originator. Both Rod
Smith & Cris Cheek seem to refer to this kind of development in their
several posts to this thread.
Many people who read this list have more knowledge of the specifics than I
do, but it seems to me that this may be true even in stylistic movements
like, say, Imagism or Projective Verse, which have a strongly identified
father-figure. Even here the style didn't leap fully formed out of the
forehead of any one writer. Rather, these simply (or complexly) grew out of
a dynamic process in which a group of writers reinforced various tendencies
in their work.
So, if there is a form that grows out of, say, "My Life" or "Progress," it
may not look exactly like either of these works, but instead would be
related to several works by several writers working similar veins.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:42:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <00994518.27E271D8.15@admin.njit.edu>
Add:
"Ars Gratia Artis"
Leo*
*The Metro Goldwyn Mayer lion (he roars the three words
distinctly --just watch him carefully)
"All art is quite useless"
Oscar Wilde
"Art is my nickname"
Arturo Toscanini
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT wrote:
> Tony et alia,
>
> "ars longa, vita brevis."
> - Horace
>
> "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne [. . .]."
> Chaucer
>
> "Art new, hurt old: revealing [. . .]."
> Zukofsky
>
>
>
> Burt
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:47:10 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950803112131.13360A-100000@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Marisa A Januzzi wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > >
> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:49:30 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <1B10D897BB9@as.ua.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Hank Lazer wrote:
> on August 2 Sheila E. Murphy (& others) wrote:
> > >
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
> held contradictory opinions about bombon glace'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:54:14 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
Comments: To: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
In-Reply-To: <199508031636.LAA25065@zoom.bga.com>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> On 2 Aug 95 at 18:21, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
> > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > >
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> Weatherless birds, featherless biped bones conspired into song
all in the same drawer,"Too tight in there? Well fuck 'em" Oh,
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:57:09 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <1B173931D84@as.ua.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Hank Lazer wrote:
> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > > >
> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> monument to the warren commission on the asteroid
> > >
> > >
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:03:18 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In message <19845B84CCB@as.ua.edu> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
flat glass of renga matter, transparent unwords
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:03:25 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
In message <9508030021.AA54367@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> Renegade and flightless, board of common prayer aside
> Retires a diplomat with "the Prussian blues" - misconstrual
> but doesn't bother to misconstrue itself and then
> drinkin' eel foot at the barley mow just last saturday i
> detected an anomalous rhythmicity nuncupating our otherwise
> tearfully drear decorum of the dead letter dance
ohime, ohime! i fell between A and E
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:04:39 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In message <199508030121.SAA12532@bob.indirect.com> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> >
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
and shivershiver compressed tree into language
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:07:33 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950802221438.70C-100000@uhunix2.its.Hawaii.Edu> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:09:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In message <Pine.OSF.3.91.950803085835.13022D-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> UB Poetics
discussion group writes:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
>
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> green glass, a rippled trapezoid slab, unmeant as
only unmeaning jargon can really get under your
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:10:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In message <Pine.3.89.9508030958.A539787494-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, GWYN M. MCVAY wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
> >
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > green glass, a rippled trapezoid slab, unmeant as
> it pushed the new look through light blood-
ed pages of vogue and vague and rogue elephantine
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:05:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In message <199508030121.SAA03320@fraser.sfu.ca> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> I have found that the only people who avoid words like "art" on
> egalitarian terms are the privileged, university profs and the like.
> My brother-in-law wouldnt. And his job is putting together RVs. He
> would never call that art, either.
i'm getting an odd deja vu sensation --did this identical post come through my
transom a few months back?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 10:54:01 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Take Yer Pardner Renga: Some Rules
The "Take yer pardner..." renga
Proposed new email rules for it:
1. Prior to posting her/his line, each contributor must send it
privately to one other member on the listserv, who
contributes the next line and then posts the two lines
together to the listserv.
2. No more than one contribution as initiator of a "couplet"
per person every 24hrs.
Why doesn't somebody start on one of the rengas going now? In the
subject heading, maybe call it "take yer pardner renga # __."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:41:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950803080550.28194A-100000
@godzilla.acpub.duke.edu> from "David Kellogg" at Aug 3,
95 08:11:18 am
From some points of view, one who is in graduate school is already
among the privileged.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:45:09 PST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Taylor <TOMT@CH1.CH.PDX.EDU>
Organization: PSU Cramer Hall
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
well put
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:55:31 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <9508022140.AA02152@infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us> from
"Jonathan Brannen" at Aug 2, 95 04:40:49 pm
I guess that "art" is a slippery term. I have heard, in interviews on
MTV, guityar wangers referring to themselves as "artists."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 09:33:09 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
yes Burt close to my own sentiments re- art as primarily a knowledge
in practice of the artist (including a knowledge of relation to
hearers, readers, or beholders) only secondarily and latterly a category of works to be
known by their conformities to protocols by which they should or
should not be admitted to a museum, anthology or canon -- the purposes
of which prove to be to turn works into instructive examples for
future practice, running into the problem of the singularity of
occasions for works -- hence permanent quarrels between ancients and
moderns. [ I've said this before, I guess. boring????]
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:40:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carl Lynden Peters <clpeters@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <199508032055.NAA07830@fraser.sfu.ca> from "George Bowering" at
Aug 3, 95 01:55:31 pm
>
> I guess that "art" is a slippery term. I have heard, in interviews on
> MTV, guityar wangers referring to themselves as "artists."
>
i was reading joseph beuys today, and i think he'd have no problem with
wangers who say their wangering is art. in an interview once, he said a
nurse is an artist. so is a banker. even a baker. so i don't think he'd
have any difficulty with wangers.
my art professor at york, someone who continues to remain an important
influence on me in my life in art, always emphasized that he was not an
artist and that he didn't make art. he was trained in the mystical
tradition of the kabbalah. his work is second to none. questions abt art
don't bother him in the least. we're in the process of getting a major
retrospective of his work together, which is likely to have both national
and international contexts. more on that as it unfolds. whatever it is he
does or however he defines it, i know that he's found at least one key to
unlock the secret mind. he takes his work seriously. i have the utmost
respect for that. people often say: "man, yr just too damn serious!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 18:47:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <30210f640b15002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> In message <19845B84CCB@as.ua.edu> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> > adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> >
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> flat glass of renga matter, transparent unwords
> un-unspoken as a whippooorwill said "wahoowhen!" in Ojibwa
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 18:53:10 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <30210f6b0b38002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, maria damon (& a cast of about 12) wrote:
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> > Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> > Renegade and flightless, board of common prayer aside
> > Retires a diplomat with "the Prussian blues" - misconstrual
> > but doesn't bother to misconstrue itself and then
> > drinkin' eel foot at the barley mow just last saturday i
> > detected an anomalous rhythmicity nuncupating our otherwise
> > tearfully drear decorum of the dead letter dance
> ohime, ohime! i fell between A and E
2-good 2-be 4-gotten in the crag & where the hell is Carmen S.D.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:01:26 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <30210fb50d08002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, maria damon, adding to adder's addition to ron wrote:
> > >
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> and shivershiver compressed tree into language
> from which postmeaning scrammed & sure enough
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:11:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <302110621141002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950802221438.70C-100000@uhunix2.its.Hawaii.Edu> UB
> Poetics discussion group writes:
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> or the Orifice-Precipice Paradox whom the angels called McLemore's
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:23:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <302110e9146c002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> In message <Pine.OSF.3.91.950803085835.13022D-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> UB Poetics
> discussion group writes:
> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
> >
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > green glass, a rippled trapezoid slab, unmeant as
> only unmeaning jargon can really get under your
> mask, one hyena boyfriend, one aurora, & maintenance
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 18:31:25 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: On little renga feet
One of these things I think about when i don't have anything to think
about:
What is determining the lengths of our lines of the renga? No rules
have been stated, but there seems to be something in common about
them.
Personally, I've make them short enough that they don't wrap -- but
what is apparently keeping the lines as long as they are.
(Of course, I've probably messed things up by asking this, and
someone will no doubt post a one-character line...)
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 18:31:20 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: Renga 1
Comments: To: Marisa A Januzzi <jma5@COLUMBIA.EDU>
On 3 Aug 95 at 11:35, Marisa A Januzzi wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > >
> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
Riemann space worried into tropical depression
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:47:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
the only time to use "art" is when you are talking to, or about, someone with that name.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 21:16:02 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Comments: cc: q@umd5.umd.edu
Joe Zitt writes that "new forms get viewed as the "turf" of one writer or
another (in your [i.e. Herb Levy's] examples, Hejinian or Watten), and to use
them is viewed as copping another's style."
...in response to what Herb Levy calls _the formal rhythms of Lyn Hejinian's
"My Life,"_ wondering how different our literary community would be were such
forms to be passed around.
But, folks, isn't it obvious - and obviously conscious on Lyn's part - that the
structure of My Life owes much (i.e. its origin at least) to Ron Silliman's
Ketjak? These forms, in other words, certainly were passed around and imitated
and not at all thought of as anyone's "turf" for a significant time.
What is the relation between a writer's method and such formal choices, if in
fact they are not identical as seems supposed by JZ's "turf" metaphor?
Lyn H. and Ron S. are very different in their interests; the two poems My Life
and Ketjak very different explorations of time and perception as social and
personal fact.
What is the process by which response to poetic work is channeled into means of
identifying such work with an author?
Tom Mandel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 21:41:36 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Herb,
Point of information (only, since what you are saying is correct in its
thrust, I'd say):
the sonnet was not a troubadour form (though perhaps, a BIG perhaps, a
case can be made for some of the troubadours escaping the deadly effect
of the Albigensian Crusade and migrating to Sicily. It was there that
we find the first extant sonnets. Cf. Paul Oppenheimer's book.
Cordially,
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 21:44:29 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Herb,
Of course, here and there, a single poet invents a specific form. For instance,
the poet Weatherly (formerly Elias Weatherly, formerly Tom Weatherly) invented
the "glory"--a tight lyric form in which the same vowel sound is repeated in
successive lines in successive syllable positions, etc. So, yes, he worked
the form out alone; yet he did not live in a vacuum.
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:04:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carl Lynden Peters <clpeters@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: writings and last poets
In-Reply-To: <v01530500ac4449b05216@[192.0.2.1]> from "Herb Levy" at Aug 1,
95 02:59:53 pm
herb,
thank-you for your statement on the new wr-eye-tings line. i wanted to
respond to it myself, but got side tracked. --thanks once again
take care,
carl
>
> >what is <wr-eye-tings> and how does one subscribe, if it's a list?--md
>
> <wr-eye-tings> is a list that carl peters started with much discussion &
> input from cris cheek. Some of this discussion was on <poetics> a while
> back. It focuses on visual & sound poetry.
>
> It's pretty quiet by <poetics> standards.
>
>
> To subscribe:
>
> send the following command in email to "Majordomo@sfu.ca":
>
> subscribe wr-eye-tings
>
> followed by your email address on the same line.
>
>
> The Last Poets passed through town this winter, but I didn't like the
> relatively new record very much, so I didn't go. Sounds like I made a
> mistake. I hope they continue to tour.
>
> Thanks for the report on their performance.
>
>
>
> Herb Levy
> herb@eskimo.com
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 21:30:25 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: take yer pardner, pardner
from lisa robertson and me--
> In the look were schemes, on their screens, crooks
> if ethix hackers necks cricked, a junk node
> hoops the blarney. So
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 23:01:17 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
carl lynden writes:
>
> my art professor at york, someone who continues to remain an important
> influence on me in my life in art, always emphasized that he was not an
> artist and that he didn't make art. he was trained in the mystical
> tradition of the kabbalah. his work is second to none. questions abt art
> don't bother him in the least. we're in the process of getting a major
> retrospective of his work together, which is likely to have both national
> and international contexts. more on that as it unfolds. whatever it is he
> does or however he defines it, i know that he's found at least one key to
> unlock the secret mind. he takes his work seriously. i have the utmost
> respect for that. people often say: "man, yr just too damn serious!"
so who is this dude, sounds really cool, and where's the retrospective?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 23:06:46 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
In message <00994572.5F74C894.30@admin.njit.edu> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> Herb,
>
> Point of information (only, since what you are saying is correct in its
> thrust, I'd say):
>
> the sonnet was not a troubadour form (though perhaps, a BIG perhaps, a
> case can be made for some of the troubadours escaping the deadly effect
> of the Albigensian Crusade and migrating to Sicily. It was there that
> we find the first extant sonnets. Cf. Paul Oppenheimer's book.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Burt
this is kind of cool cuz wasn't sicily during this period a very hybrid kind of
place w/ arabic, its own italian, latin, etc, being written? i did a little
shtick on islands at mla last yr and sd, mostly intuitively, that islands, far
from being "isolated," were crossroadss for cultural cross-polli(e)?nation. so,
the sonnet, which is now the icon of mainstream poetic tradition, had its
origins in a swirling eclecticism of languages, traditions, forms and people--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 00:58:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
G.B. wrote (he really did):
>I guess that "art" is a slippery term. I have heard, in >interviews on
>MTV, guityar wangers referring to themselves as "artists."
I changed my mind abt saying anything at all on this, however,
I believe the spelling is guitar.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:08:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: eR 1
On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > >
> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
morning
from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
wail
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 01:15:14 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
altered colophons, a legal adage in a kiss it, o uncalm!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:17:22 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Renga 1
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> > propelling you to the day without answers or questions
Hiroshima mon amor and the dream and the book and it did
not happen nevermore Trickster drags the chalk across
,
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:38:39 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
maria damon writes
In message <19845B84CCB@as.ua.edu> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > flat glass of renga matter, transparent unwords
the web spun the spider of disjointed times out on
,
[A .
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:30:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: question abt rengas
In-Reply-To: <199508020531.WAA01887@slip-1.slip.net> from "Steve Carll" at Aug
1, 95 10:31:21 pm
So, if you write two lines in a row, is the renga void, like a petition?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:47:30 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga
> >
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
let the renga drop opposite the po po purple
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:52:46 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <950804005613_130151819@aol.com> from "Rod Smith" at Aug 4,
95 00:58:56 am
You can't get away from this "art" business. To add, my ol papa
picked up my copy of GB's A Place to Die and when I caught him reading
it (he doesn't like reading "artsy" books) he asked me if using &
for and made something art or artistic. I haven't answered him yet.
When he asked me what Lolita was abt and I told him he didn't ask
anything about what made it art or artistic. I haven't asked him why
yet. Maybe nymphets are more obvious than ampersands.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:59:17 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 2
On Aug 3, Jorge Guitart wrote Re: Renga 1
of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Marisa A Januzzi wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > >
> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> First inverted whistle
following red red rdbins
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 23:07:46 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
In-Reply-To: <30219cd33809002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Maria, if you want more evidence for islands being crossroads, there's a
big push among Pacific Islanders to reclaim themselves as an ocean of
islands that has had continued and heavy commerce among themselves for
thousands of years--rather than the Euro vision of them as isolated
blips in a vast sea. Just been reading a similar commentary on Caribbean
island self-vision. And certainly Hawaii is a magnetic center where east
and west meet. I'm sure other Pacific islands are too.
Gabrielle
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
>
> this is kind of cool cuz wasn't sicily during this period a very hybrid kind of
> place w/ arabic, its own italian, latin, etc, being written? i did a little
> shtick on islands at mla last yr and sd, mostly intuitively, that islands, far
> from being "isolated," were crossroadss for cultural cross-polli(e)?nation. so,
> the sonnet, which is now the icon of mainstream poetic tradition, had its
> origins in a swirling eclecticism of languages, traditions, forms and people--md
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 02:56:02 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Tom Mandel writes:
>But, folks, isn't it obvious - and obviously conscious on Lyn's part -
that the structure of My Life owes much (i.e. its origin at least) to
Ron Silliman's Ketjak? These forms, in other words, certainly were
passed around and imitated and not at all thought of as anyone's "turf"
for a significant time.
Yet the K section of The Alphabet (specifically Ketjak2:Caravan of
Affect), literally "the next paragraph," is heavily indebted to Lyn's
"rewriting" of My Life and uses that quite consciously.
My sense is that it must take a good while for a form to break free of
the weight of that early identification. Look at how imprisoned the
early American prose poem was to the first few translations/imitations
of Max Jacob, as tho that were all one could do with prose in a poem.
My sense is that Blake, Coleridge and Pope could all have been taken as
inspiration for the prose poem and it would have looked like a very
different dog.
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 03:45:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Inland Bankruptcy
I pulled the following off of BookWeb, a good WWW site for book news:
Inland Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection
Small Press Distributor To Remain Open Through Reorganization
At press time, Inland Book Company announced that it had filed for
reorganization under Chapter 11 of the Federal Bankruptcy Act on August
1. Under Chapter 11, the small and independent press distributor will
seek protection from creditors as it reorganizes its finances and
operations. "Inland has already taken steps to reorganize itself and
expects to continue operations without interruption," the company said
in announcing the filing.
>
Inland s filing comes as no great surprise to those in the
publishing industry who had seen Inland, which specializes in
"alternative" literature, struggle through hard financial times. A year
ago, the troubled distributor was purchased by the Miller Group, a
Florida Company specializing in distribution businesses. In September,
Inland executives David Wilk and Steve Hargraves regained ownership of
Inland, claiming that the Miller Group reneged on its commitments. At
the time, Wilk said he had met with a number of Inland s closest
publisher friends, who had commited to supporting him in rebuilding the
business.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 07:46:10 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508040538.WAA09883@well.com> from "Thomas Bell" at Aug 3,
95 10:38:39 pm
Set peotics NO RENGA
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 09:26:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inland Bankruptcy
In-Reply-To: <199508041045.DAA28997@ix4.ix.netcom.com> from "Ron Silliman" at
Aug 4, 95 03:45:41 am
Ron writes: "...BookWeb, a good WWW site for book news"
Could you post the exact http address? Thanks.
Pierre
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:18:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
Comments: To: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
In-Reply-To: <199508032333.SAA09299@zoom.bga.com>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> On 3 Aug 95 at 11:35, Marisa A Januzzi wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > > >
> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> Riemann space worried into tropical depression
giving consolation a bad name and injecting
> ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
> |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
> ||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
> |/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
> / <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 07:27:16 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Burt Kimmelman wrote:
>Point of information (only, since what you are saying is correct in its
>thrust, I'd say):
>
>the sonnet was not a troubadour form (though perhaps, a BIG perhaps, a
>case can be made for some of the troubadours escaping the deadly effect
>of the Albigensian Crusade and migrating to Sicily. It was there that
>we find the first extant sonnets. Cf. Paul Oppenheimer's book.
Burt,
Thanks for the clarification on the origin of sonnets.
I'd always connected sonnets with an idea that comes from my vaguely
remembered reading of Pound (maybe Kenner, someone anyway) that the first
sonnet started when some troubador failed to be able to complete a canzone
form of several verses of 14 lines.
There are a lot of other things to respond to in this thread but I'm off to
the Olympic Peninsula imminently. Have a nice weekend y'all.
Bests
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:28:10 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: eR 1
In-Reply-To: <199508040508.WAA29378@well.com>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
>
> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > > > >
> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> morning
> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> of
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 09:15:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carl Lynden Peters <clpeters@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <30219b8b32b9002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 3,
95 11:01:17 pm
maria,
he's _tim whiten_, teaches at york in toronto, and is represented by the
olga korper gallery. the retro is tentatively set for mid 1996, altho i
haven't heard confirmation. i'm writing an essay ("the work as art") for
the catalogue. last time i heard either jack burnham or lucy lippard were
going to write the preface. i think getting hold of examples and
documentation of his work might be difficult. despite the contexts he's
worked out for himself, he remains somewhat _underground_, altho a major
performance/installation piece of his at art park in up-state NY was
included in lippards book _overlay_. the piece was called, if i can get
the sp right, "Morada," and it was conceived and performed during the
late 70s and early 80s. apologies fr going on abt this. what can i say?
rarely do you find such an expansive spirit, and rarely do you _connect_
thank you for your question, maria. i wanted to foreground his work
further in my earlier post, but didn't know how to frame it exactly
i'll post you a catalogue once everything is done and done
take good care,
carl
>
> carl lynden writes:
>
> >
> > my art professor at york, someone who continues to remain an important
> > influence on me in my life in art, always emphasized that he was not an
> > artist and that he didn't make art. he was trained in the mystical
> > tradition of the kabbalah. his work is second to none. questions abt art
> > don't bother him in the least. we're in the process of getting a major
> > retrospective of his work together, which is likely to have both national
> > and international contexts. more on that as it unfolds. whatever it is he
> > does or however he defines it, i know that he's found at least one key to
> > unlock the secret mind. he takes his work seriously. i have the utmost
> > respect for that. people often say: "man, yr just too damn serious!"
>
> so who is this dude, sounds really cool, and where's the retrospective?--md
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 12:27:41 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Willa Jarnagin <jarnagin@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: "art"/semantics
In-Reply-To: <01HTNCKMUYL48WW9PT@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Edward Foster wrote:
> the only time to use "art" is when you are talking to, or about, someone
with that name.
>
So we should discard this word? You know what'll happen? Another will
take its place and the same argument will continue....
Willa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:32:14 PST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Taylor <TOMT@CH1.CH.PDX.EDU>
Organization: PSU Cramer Hall
Subject: Re: "art"/semantics
excuse me, I must have arted.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 13:48:12 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Renga Rung Wrong
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.950804122540.551570238E-100000@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
Then of course everything sorts itself out:
> morning
> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> of
> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > > >
> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 08:12:01 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Parasites revealed in action! (fwd)
Surprise surprise! Gabrielle
PROPOSED CONGRESSIONAL CUTS OF $9 BILLION
TO WELFARE/HEALTH/EDUCATION/WORKERS SAFETY REGULATIONS
MATCH MILITARY GIFT
The symmetry is beautiful and awesome.
My last post ranted about the military industrial complex and how
we should really concentrate on that area if we need cuts in the federal
budget. I responded to a comment from a colleague on this list that we
should step back and look at where the money is going instead of
insisting that the government punish a different set of students.
My point centered on the current 104th Congressional decision to
*** give the Defense Department $9.7 BILLION MORE
than the Pentagon even requested! ***
There was little debate in the House or Senate as far as we know.
No big fuss arose. But the time has come for that stuff to hit the fan.
Almost THE IDENTICAL AMOUNT of money that the Rightists forced upon the
military is being taken away from children, the sick, the elderly,
students, and the working class in general.
All the dots were connected by thick lines following the money trail
straight to the doors of the enriching rich. It was like deus ex machina.
THE VAMPIRES CAUGHT IN THE ACT --RED-HANDED, as it were.
Now is the time to act. Spread the news. This is it.
Yours in solid.,
--Chris Brady
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
THE STUDENT INSURGENT is a biweekly, leftish newspaper
published by students at the University of Oregon in Eugene.
Our office is located in Suite 1 in the Erb Memorial Union building (EMU).
Our phone number is (503)346-3716. FAX: (503)346-0620
e-mail: insurgnt@gladstone.uoregon.edu
WWW: http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~insurgnt
[*note*: no "e" in "insurgnt" with our electronic addresses]
Our current U.S. Mailing address is: The Student Insurgent
1228 -- U. of Oregon
Eugene, OR 97403-1228
"...we shall have an association
in which the free development of each
is the condition for the free development of all."
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 15:09:51 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inland Bankruptcy
Inland had stopped handling the smallest presses, is my understanding.
I hope Wilk and co. go back to the point where they were doing alright.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 14:11:33 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In message <199508041615.JAA06862@fraser.sfu.ca> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> maria,
>
> he's _tim whiten_, teaches at york in toronto, and is represented by the
> olga korper gallery. the retro is tentatively set for mid 1996, altho i
> haven't heard confirmation. i'm writing an essay ("the work as art") for
> the catalogue. last time i heard either jack burnham or lucy lippard were
> going to write the preface. i think getting hold of examples and
> documentation of his work might be difficult. despite the contexts he's
> worked out for himself, he remains somewhat _underground_, altho a major
> performance/installation piece of his at art park in up-state NY was
> included in lippards book _overlay_. the piece was called, if i can get
> the sp right, "Morada," and it was conceived and performed during the
> late 70s and early 80s. apologies fr going on abt this. what can i say?
> rarely do you find such an expansive spirit, and rarely do you _connect_
>
> thank you for your question, maria. i wanted to foreground his work
> further in my earlier post, but didn't know how to frame it exactly
>
> i'll post you a catalogue once everything is done and done
>
> take good care,
> carl
>
continues to sound cool--thanks (everytime i try to type out cool it comes out
cook. sounds really cook.)--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 15:06:24 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Maria,
My hunch is that courtly love and all came from the n african and what is now
middle eastern lyric tradition. i can't prove it, though a while back
Ammiel Alcaly (you may know him--recent book of his from Singing Horse
and another scholarly book from [i think] u of minnesota p) did some
graduate work on medieval hebrew and arabic lyrics, which, if i recall, suggested what i am saying. so anyway, sicily, sure--though why did SO MANY forms
arise with the troubadours and not with the sicilians; part of the answer to
this question has to do with the language of Old Provencal--but only part.
musing along . . .
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 14:08:47 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
gabrielle w writes:
> Maria, if you want more evidence for islands being crossroads, there's a
> big push among Pacific Islanders to reclaim themselves as an ocean of
> islands that has had continued and heavy commerce among themselves for
> thousands of years--rather than the Euro vision of them as isolated
> blips in a vast sea. Just been reading a similar commentary on Caribbean
> island self-vision. And certainly Hawaii is a magnetic center where east
> and west meet. I'm sure other Pacific islands are too.
>
cd that book perchance be The Repeating Island by i forget who and i gave back
the book? fernandez-rojo?--yeah, that's a cool book. if it's a diff one, which
one is it?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 09:11:33 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: (Fwd) Re: renga anyone?
The following is a now forgotten continuation of the Renga that goes
back a while. What is most irritating now is to see it hanging
"...Suspect/.....................................................................
Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self <CCNOV2/AHI_TGREEN>
To: POETICS@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: Re: renga anyone?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:52:44
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
Mist, out into the familiar yonder of the freeway. Suspect
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 14:57:55 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: "art"/semantics
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.950804122540.551570238E-100000
@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU> from "Willa Jarnagin" at Aug 4,
95 12:27:41 pm
Aw shucks, ah caint use the word "art". Ah'm just a honest country
boy. I want people to like me and trust me. That word "art" is just
for them big city folks and them foreigners over there in that sinful
town in France.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 15:06:00 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga
In-Reply-To: <199508040547.WAA12804@well.com> from "Thomas Bell" at Aug 3,
95 10:47:30 pm
When I hear the word "renga" I reach for my D-key.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 15:08:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <950804005613_130151819@aol.com> from "Rod Smith" at Aug 4,
95 00:58:56 am
Rod Smith wrote
"I believe the spelling is guitar."
Probably he meant to say
"I believe that the spelling is guitar."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 18:20:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: renga anyone?
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.950805091133.416@ccnov2.auckland.ac.nz>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Tony Green wrote:
> The following is a now forgotten continuation of the Renga that goes
> back a while. What is most irritating now is to see it hanging
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> Mist, out into the familiar yonder of the freeway. Suspect
Among the entries of the How Green was My Alien Contest
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 19:02:24 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lindz Williamson <lmichell@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Please stop
In-Reply-To: <199508042206.PAA14788@fraser.sfu.ca>
On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> When I hear the word "renga" I reach for my D-key.
>
Actually George I think it's when you see the word "renga", and yes I do
the same.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 20:51:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Renga Rung Wrong
Then of course everything sorts itself out:
<or seems wrung and tided over the reef:
> morning
> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> of
> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > > >
> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
end where the beached whale divulged Jonah
> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 21:20:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: " . . . "
In-Reply-To: <199508040614.XAA16012@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Whenever I hear the word "gun" I reach for my art.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 21:23:22 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Recent Burt
In-Reply-To: <199508040614.XAA16012@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
I'd been wondering what had become of Tom Weatherly -- can you tell me
about any published works under the aliases you mentioned last post???
last I heard of him was a 70's chapbook.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 18:30:09 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Caribbean
In-Reply-To: <3022703c0dfd002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Hi Maria. The book is _If I Could Write This In Fire: An Anthology of
Lit from the Carib_ ed by Pamela M. Smorkaloff. I'm adding the one you
mentioned to my list... Thanks. Gabrielle
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 00:54:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: " . . . "
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950804211955.25098A-100000@athens>
The problem: Bang! You're dead.
Alan
On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Aldon L. Nielsen wrote:
> Whenever I hear the word "gun" I reach for my art.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 00:19:57 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: renga anyone?
Comments: To: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
On 5 Aug 95 at 9:11, Tony Green wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> Mist, out into the familiar yonder of the freeway. Suspect
The night, left in the wake of bibles and caffiene to
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 02:18:43 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Scheil <cschei1@GRFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: renga anyone?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508041813.B540035252-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Tony Green wrote:
>
> > The following is a now forgotten continuation of the Renga that goes
> > back a while. What is most irritating now is to see it hanging
>
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > Mist, out into the familiar yonder of the freeway. Suspect
> Among the entries of the How Green was My Alien Contest
the rooting sense to cut away for news in clouds went off
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 03:31:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: BookWeb
You wrote:
>
>Ron writes: "...BookWeb, a good WWW site for book news"
>
>Could you post the exact http address? Thanks.
>
>Pierre
>
http://www.spiders.com/bookweb/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 04:13:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Rengaphobia
Interesting (in the clinical sense) to see three negative responses in
today's email to the presence of poetry on the Poetics List. All from
north of the border, for those of us who like to draw theoretical
conclusions.
Ron
Rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:22:54 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Tom writes - forms, in other words, certainly were
>passed around and imitated and not at all thought of as anyone's "turf"
>for a significant time.
And Ron adds - My sense is that it must take a good while for a form to
>break free of the weight of that early identification.
Good stuff. Social imperatives are suggested here? Bringing urgencies to
process - urgencies which articulate obvious distinctions between
imitation and influence. Hit and miss periodicities of communication and
influence are extremely difficult to calibrate nevertheless. It is the
quality and the urgency of engagement with the currents within the tides of
such communications and influences which make a writer's work compelling. A
re-investment in processes of discovery. Any number of singers can sing the
same song but as we all know very few can do so in a way which compels us
to listen afresh.
love and quirky urgencies
agencies
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:23:02 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Maria Damon wrote:
> islands, far from being "isolated," were crossroadss for cultural
>>cross-polli(e)?nation. so, the sonnet, which is now the icon of mainstream
>>poetic tradition, had its origins in a swirling eclecticism of languages,
>>traditions, forms and people--md
and Gabrielle has cited Pacific Islands, in particualr Hawaii, and the
Caribbean in such respects. My own enthusiasm, as some will already know,
is for Madagascar (yes Gab, i owe you a letter on that).
One of the most celebratory aspects of living on this island (good to read
Ron referring to Britain as the islands recently - we relish being the
colonised outpost of the twentieth century US adventure) during these
pre-millenial tensile days is that of the colonial chickens coming home to
ro(o/a)st. Oh the ruins of glamour and the glamour of ruins when the two
come together -
'. . . O the mirror and the eye, you try to see yourself clearly
Both hide significance from view, then allow you to see
The hidden jewel, a veritable sapphire
O nose and smell, when the two come together
O smell and nose; when confusion is further confounded;
A person become dumbfounded and loses track of everything.
At the time for minstrelsy, when poets vie one with another.
O hand and work when the two come together.
O work and hand, a skilled performer is never completely overwhelmed;
This is the secret of her greatness, so confident is she of her ability
So on the day of her trila none would question her presence
O the chicks and the hawk, when the two come together
O the hawk and the chicks! when one sets its eyes on the other
One soars high into air, even only a young bird;
Snatching its prey from the air, even with the left hand.
O the mattress and the pillow, when the two come together . . .'
(freely translated from Muyaka - 19th century swahili poet)
the reference to left hand is in regards to eating etiquette as many will
know but some might not
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 07:46:06 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
In-Reply-To: <199508051113.EAA10961@ix4.ix.netcom.com>
Luckily, rengaphobia can be cured by behavior modification techniques and
there is no need to appeal to constructs such as renga envy.
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Ron Silliman wrote:
> Interesting (in the clinical sense) to see three negative responses in
> today's email to the presence of poetry on the Poetics List. All from
> north of the border, for those of us who like to draw theoretical
> conclusions.
>
> Ron
> Rsillima@ix.netcom.com
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 11:05:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Caribbean
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.950804182846.13221A-100000@uhunix4.its.Hawaii.Edu> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> Hi Maria. The book is _If I Could Write This In Fire: An Anthology of
> Lit from the Carib_ ed by Pamela M. Smorkaloff. I'm adding the one you
> mentioned to my list... Thanks. Gabrielle
thanks, hadn't heard of it but recognize, of course, the source of the title...
soory all you other listers out there, to clog your airwaves and eyebrain
neurones with personal thanks to one member --it's just so easy to hit that
"reply" option.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 11:10:19 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
cris writes:
> My own enthusiasm, as some will already know,
> is for Madagascar
>
> love and love
> cris
didn't know..please tell us about poetry from the madagascar contact zone!--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:35:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
oh ron s---yes, yet's draw theoretical conclusions--CANADIANS HATE
RENGAS...but RON makes ASSUMPTIONS doesn't it---first one is that
this "renga" constitues poetry (there's obviously some weird tension
and/or rivalry between bowering and silliman going on--it's soap
opera like--ho hum)---there are others too
does one have to be north of the border to be north of intention?
viva canada! cs
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:56:26 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Recent Burt
Aldon,
First of all, I have to comment that it feels weird finally attaining
the status of "subject position" (multiple re. including: my recent
hyperglossia about "self" versus "subject position," and the subject
title of this post which is a reply to your post). Anyway,
Weatherly (I'm having dinner with him and his wife tomorrow) hasn't published
any books since the first perfect bound book by Totem Corinth, "Mau Mau
American Cantos," followed by some chapbooks including "Thumbprint" (Telegraph
Books). He is a manager at the Strand Bookstore in NYC; he is still writiing
poetry mostly. He is more ecelectic than ever. His poems these days are
to my mind brillian and original, extremely dense and subtle both, leaning
in the Zukofsky direction (on the sound-sense axis).
I think some publisher would be wise to do a book of his. No one is doing
the sort of thing he is, in terms of both language and theme.
If you like, I can ask him to send you some of his work (backchannel me)
or I could post a few of the poems, or whatever. Anyway, I'll tell him
you asked.
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 13:19:50 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vivan tanto canada como renga
In-Reply-To: <009946BB.56A87680.8@admin.njit.edu>
Viva renga
viva Ron
y que viva Michael Boughn
aunque lo ponga en `no renga'
y aunque no tenga razon
y, seguro, vivan Chris
Canada, George y Lindz
pero la renga es poesia
cualquiera te lo diria
(after Nicolas Guillen)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 13:33:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: not a renga so keep your finger off D
Comments: To: poetics@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
(with thanks to alan,maria, gabrielle, ron, louie, joseph,
marisa, tony, et al)
EXCELLENT LEXICAL ADVENTURES
the book the dream the caravan & the lace
the coffee the bondage & the waist
the cream the times the modules & the dust
green discorded fanatical & obtuse
go mollycoddled thin-spined with oboe
it binds misdirected with years ago
blowing prussian blue gauze between snacks
gives kissing ripcage topped with poplar landscape
heavy the waspish cardinal in compassed air
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 13:42:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Parasites revealed in action! (fwd)
G--
Thanks for forwarding this. I propose people repost this lots of places as
well as making xeroxes of the two headlines next to each other to send around
& leave on car windshields & send to corporate heads & our "representatives"
etc. If they know we know it scares them a little, I think. & that's a start.
--Rod
G forwarded this:
Surprise surprise! Gabrielle
PROPOSED CONGRESSIONAL CUTS OF $9 BILLION
TO WELFARE/HEALTH/EDUCATION/WORKERS SAFETY REGULATIONS
MATCH MILITARY GIFT
The symmetry is beautiful and awesome.
My last post ranted about the military industrial complex and how
we should really concentrate on that area if we need cuts in the federal
budget. I responded to a comment from a colleague on this list that we
should step back and look at where the money is going instead of
insisting that the government punish a different set of students.
My point centered on the current 104th Congressional decision to
*** give the Defense Department $9.7 BILLION MORE
than the Pentagon even requested! ***
There was little debate in the House or Senate as far as we know.
No big fuss arose. But the time has come for that stuff to hit the fan.
Almost THE IDENTICAL AMOUNT of money that the Rightists forced upon the
military is being taken away from children, the sick, the elderly,
students, and the working class in general.
All the dots were connected by thick lines following the money trail
straight to the doors of the enriching rich. It was like deus ex machina.
THE VAMPIRES CAUGHT IN THE ACT --RED-HANDED, as it were.
Now is the time to act. Spread the news. This is it.
Yours in solid.,
--Chris Brady
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
THE STUDENT INSURGENT is a biweekly, leftish newspaper
published by students at the University of Oregon in Eugene.
Our office is located in Suite 1 in the Erb Memorial Union building (EMU).
Our phone number is (503)346-3716. FAX: (503)346-0620
e-mail: insurgnt@gladstone.uoregon.edu
WWW: http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~insurgnt
[*note*: no "e" in "insurgnt" with our electronic addresses]
Our current U.S. Mailing address is: The Student Insurgent
1228 -- U. of Oregon
Eugene, OR 97403-1228
"...we shall have an association
in which the free development of each
is the condition for the free development of all."
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 16:04:50 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: University at Buffalo
Subject: Essays Wanted for College Literature's Special Poetry Issue (fwrd)
Comments: cc: collit@wcupa.edu
[forwarded message:]
SPECIAL ISSUE OF COLLEGE LITERATURE
Diversity and American Poetries
Volume 24, number 1 (February 1997)
The issue will explore the theoretical/imaginative space framed by the
relation between social, political, and cultural diversity and the great
variety of forms and functions comprising poetry in the United States.
Topics may include (but are not limited to):
Canons, Hierarchies, Rules, Values
Poetry as Cultural Criticism
Ethnopoetics
Folk, Popular, or Non-Academic Poetries
Formalisms and Cultural Difference
Functional Poetics
Hybrid Poetries
Ideological Variety
Lost/Rediscovered Poetries
Non-Print Poetries
Poetic Desire/Sexual Desire
Poetic Variety and Pedagogy
Poetry and Other Arts
Poetry of "Minor Literatures"
Redefining genres
Theorizing creativity
Theorizing Poetic Change
Workshops and Readings
Deadline for submission of 18-25 page articles in MLA style (in triplicate;
author's name to appear on cover page only) is July 15, 1996. Please send
queries or essays to:
AFTER AUG. 15 ONLY (new addesses!):
Jerry McGuire
College Literature
Diversity and Poetry Issue
English Dept.
University of Southwestern Louisiana
Room 211, Griffin Hall
Lafayette LA 70504
or:
collit@wcupa.edu
Call 610-436-2901 if you have a problem with either address.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 15:22:13 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Tony,
You have plums on the fridge door? Or was that just a tasteful message?
I don't want to reopen the issue of the literary cannon, other than to
say that we could use a few more literary loose cannons.
Best regards from not so sweet but oh so cold Minnesota,
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 15:43:30 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Responding to George Bowering post of 3 August:
George,
I would think any self-respecting MTV guitar wanger would use the
term "artiste."
Best,
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 15:50:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Jorge Guitart,
So that's what the MGM lion is roaring. All these years I thought it
was saying "buy more popcorn."
Best,
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 15:55:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
To Ed Foster who said "the only time to use 'art' is when you are talking to,
or about, someone with that name."
I don't know Ed. I guess I just not comfortable using people that way.
Best,
Brannen
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 16:30:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Gabrielle and Maria,
I believe in was the composer Terry Reily speaking of his composition C
who said that progress in the arts frequently resulted from members of
one culture imitate the style and methods of another culture without
understanding its context within the original culture. Unencumbered
by its original cultural baggage, the relatively regimented forms
of making and doing within one culture are free to evolve in new
directions when adapted by another.
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 18:21:10 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Quirky Urgencies
On imitation and influence and on the "passing around" of forms...
...for one thing lots of formal thinking in new poetry, as I/we
experienced in the seventies, for example, was about procedures:
methods, ways of doing things. And these ways, or one's sense
of them, could be influential yet expressed in very different-
appearing formal constructions.
At the same time, it's important not to downplay the importance
and interest of imitation itself. It's fun an duseful to find
out whether you can do a thing that you see someone else doing,
and that may involve very blatant imitation. Anyway, imitation
doesn't always produce similarity (mimesis is an interesting
topic...). Beckett imitated Kafka as a way of getting free
from Joyce's influence, but his early work doesn't actually
arrive at much of a similarity to what it imitates.
Perhaps originality finds in imitation an interesting motor
to appear.
At the same time, I also remember a lot of not very interesting
work (to me, that is) which seemed to be trying to be "the
new sentence." But, of course that "theoretical" construction
had an utterly personal character, as Ron extended into poetry
his political concern with "the sentence" in a very different
sense and kept the continuity and contiguity in a rather
private irony; i.e. it was never discussed I do not think or
at least I do not remember (which means less and less...).
But it didn't get by me, Ron. In that sense, I mean, "the
new sentence" was inimitable. Or any other new sentence
would be original perforce, however mimetic.
Tom Mandel
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 15:29:24 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Rengaphobia
Rather than starting a flame war, it might be appropriate
to branch off a thread from poetics in response to the
spontaneous interest that has developed in response to the
interactive development of the renga thread.
This might also resolve two other issues that have
generated some controversy here: publicity vs. exclusivity
and posting of poetry vs. posting of criticism and theory.
I think it would be a mistake to restrict or cut off the
interest this thread has sparked, no matter how good or
bad the work is as _POETRY_ or _RENGA_.
Bada Shanren
tbjn@well.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 18:41:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <9508052050.AA01078@infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us>
Jonathan, to tell you the truth, today i was watching the american movie
channel & sure enough there was going to be an old mgm movie. i cut off
the sound & watched leo's lips carefully & you are right--in a way: it
looked like he was saying ***zea mays everta plus emptor*** .
i think it was my stepmother who fooled me into believing that he said
the other thing.
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Jonathan Brannen wrote:
> Jorge Guitart,
>
> So that's what the MGM lion is roaring. All these years I thought it
> was saying "buy more popcorn."
>
> Best,
> Jonathan
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 18:49:08 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: flame retardant behavior
isnt any poem (including any renga) a statement of (your)(our) poetics?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 17:54:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>on August 2 Sheila E. Murphy (& others) wrote:
>> >
>> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 18:01:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
>> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
>> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
>> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
>> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
>the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 18:03:42 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 18:12:40 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: eR 1
>On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>
>> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
>> > > > >
>> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
>> morning
>> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
>> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly
fit
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:46:08 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Renga 1
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 20:54:16 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lindz Williamson <lmichell@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: Vivan tanto canada como renga
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508051328.A539906530-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
Yes, I fear Renga.
I fear art.
I fear one big happy poetics list.
I wake up at night in a cold sweat because according to all of you i have
no soul.
I fear generalizations and broad conclusions.
I fear people that jump down my throat and make accusations even when I
say please.
I really fear "quatations marks" and brackets ( GOd they're really,
really scary)
I fear that someone might inform me that I'm not actually writing poetry,
but a bukowski novel.
I fear witty comebacks and cynical remarks.
I fear Courtney Love.
I fear that someone might think I think COurtney love is an " artiste"
I fear peopel who correct typos and speling mistaeks
I fear that someone might replace the word fear with the word hate in
this posting.
I fear that I might actually be allowed to post my own opinion and not be
condemmed.
I fear the US.
I fear that someone might find out I have dual citizenship and that my
father is American.
I fear that the only reason that I'm proud to be Canadian is the fact
that it means i'm not American.
And due to all this fear I now have a facial twitch and feel faint when I
hear literary analysis. But that's ok, i think it adds character so yes.
please continue.
Viva Renga!
Lindz ( i think i'm going to hide under
my goose down for a while, that's what Canadians do when they are frightened)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:50:03 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Renga2?
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
loons in a lake one can see through, diving between sunrises
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:54:32 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Renga3?
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995 18:03:42 -0700,
Sheila E. Murphy <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM> wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:58:49 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Renga4?
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 21:20:51 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lindz Williamson <lmichell@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
In-Reply-To: <91500.mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
As official chair person of the Canadian Council Against Renga (Car) I
charge Charles Alexander with unauthorized use of the Loon," loons in a lake
one can see through, diving between sunrises". The Loon is considered a
part of Canadian culture and heritage. The Loon was officially chosen to
appear on the Canadian dollar coin in 1987, as it reflected typically
Canadian mannerisms being some what annoying and mostly harmless shooting
it's mouth off for no apparent reason. The coin has since been
affectionately nicknamed the " Loonie" I warn you that the members of CAR
view the symobolic importance of the Loon to be at par with the American
Bald Eagle, therefore this is no laughing matter. WE request that all
renga using Loons as a poetic image or metaphor please cease immediately.
Thanks for your understanding, we wouldn't want
to make this an international incident.
Officially, Lindz Williamson
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 01:00:27 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: Renga 1
Comments: To: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
On 5 Aug 95 at 22:46, Charles Alexander wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
imported when commisioned, encapsulating
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 23:10:49 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
>from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
>of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
>sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
bandages-to-be from consciousness and conscience plexiglassed against
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 01:14:45 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
Lindz Williamson writes,
"As official chair person of the Canadian Council Against Renga (Car) I
charge Charles Alexander with unauthorized use of the Loon," loons in a lake
one can see through, diving between sunrises". The Loon is considered a
part of Canadian culture and heritage. The Loon was officially chosen to
appear on the Canadian dollar coin in 1987, as it reflected typically
Canadian mannerisms being some what annoying and mostly harmless shooting
it's mouth off for no apparent reason. The coin has since been
affectionately nicknamed the " Loonie" I warn you that the members of CAR
view the symobolic importance of the Loon to be at par with the American
Bald Eagle, therefore this is no laughing matter. WE request that all
renga using Loons as a poetic image or metaphor please cease immediately."
The loon is also the state bird of Minnesota, although I saw my first
several in Wisconsin last week. I apologize for offending Canada, which I
greatly respect.
charles alexander [===========^^============]
[ <> ]
chax press [ maybe a <> pages ]
[ time <> letters ]
phone & fax: 612-721-6063 [ upon <> frames ]
[ once <> motion ]
e-mail: mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu [ <> ]
[===========vv============]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 00:01:18 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
"nool" OK? as in
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
[A>nool in a CAR, an American car, an official American Toyota
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 21:37:30 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
In-Reply-To: <9508052130.AA01255@infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Jonathan Brannen wrote:
Unencumbered
> by its original cultural baggage, the relatively regimented forms
> of making and doing within one culture are free to evolve in new
> directions when adapted by another.
>
Yes, that makes a lot of sense to me. Works across time too, so that,
for instance revivals of particular folk traditions, like Irish, say, or
Hawaiian produce wonderful new possibilities and mixtures that were never
possible before.
Gab.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 10:14:03 EDT
Reply-To: beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: beard@MET.CO.NZ
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Jonathon said,
>I believe in was the composer Terry Reily speaking of his composition C
>who said that progress in the arts frequently resulted from members of
>one culture imitate the style and methods of another culture without
>understanding its context within the original culture. Unencumbered
>by its original cultural baggage, the relatively regimented forms
>of making and doing within one culture are free to evolve in new
>directions when adapted by another.
Yes, exactly! But when the _imitator_ is from a culture that has colonised the
culture that produced the _imititated_ form, the imitator better watch out for
the PC police. Viz Gordon Walters' use of the Maori koru design, and his
wonderful explorations of its formal possibilities, without any necessary
reference to its cultural origins and context. But that's "appropriation"
(sorry guys, didn't see the copyright symbol) and hence not on. Are we allowed
to use (e.g.) the myths of other cultures in our writings, in whatever way we
want, or do we have to sit a test to prove our cultural sensitivity?
Tom.
______________________________________________________________________________
I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
I am/a dark place. | beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://metcon.met.co.nz/
and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 11:26:08 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: desire / and the 39 steps
an urgent wind's up - blows out, to tidy the garden. gets stuck in the
process. cholic summer waters lie dark, clogged by decompositions of petals
and leaves. the reflections it gives to this world are the better for that.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 08:41:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
condemmed.
promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 08:44:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud.
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
loons in a lake one can see through, diving between sunrises
as a cat on catpaws, chocolate-milk-lipped, cardinal-listening
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 08:45:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 08:48:03 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
yet relaxed all the while, cuffs buttoned close to thumb & page
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 12:44:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vivan tanto canada como renga
jorge writes:
> Viva renga
> viva Ron
> y que viva Michael Boughn
> aunque lo ponga en `no renga'
> y aunque no tenga razon
>
> y, seguro, vivan Chris
> Canada, George y Lindz
> pero la renga es poesia
> cualquiera te lo diria
>
> (after Nicolas Guillen)
now this is my idea of art and poetry!--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 11:18:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
>with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 11:20:01 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>condemmed.
>promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
>stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
>to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
pretaxed a little roughage for the good of order modified by "the"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 17:31:21 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508060054.RAA26111@bob.indirect.com>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >on August 2 Sheila E. Murphy (& others) wrote:
> >> >
> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
the theoretician and her guests by the balsa wood tower
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 17:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199508060101.SAA26143@bob.indirect.com>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> >> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> >> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> >> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> >the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
> with their rehab brothers & sisters in the metaphor they lived by
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 17:40:06 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508060103.SAA26151@bob.indirect.com>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 17:43:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: eR 1
In-Reply-To: <199508060112.SAA26235@bob.indirect.com>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> >
> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
> >>
> >> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> >> morning
> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly
> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 17:49:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <91286.mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
> of drinking weak coffee in enormous cups, and the trail of
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 17:56:17 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: eR^2 = eD
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508061724.D540074389-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote: "> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thom-
as Bell wrote: > >> '> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote: > >> "> >> On Aug 3
Marissa Januzzi wrote: > >> > '> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart
wrote: > >> >> ">> >> > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote: > > >
> >> '>> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition -- > >> > > > >'"'"'"
that we are beings lonely breathing here, sweet arrows pointing one by
one, the one of love and sweet returning
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:00:25 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
In-Reply-To: <91500.mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
> loons in a lake one can see through, diving between sunrises
> with a modicum of surprise, as in "Mr. Chimaera, please report to the
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:08:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
In-Reply-To: <91979.mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws the anthology
> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
> sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
subsuming, presupposing, debasing & whatnot, & the Masque said
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:16:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
In-Reply-To: <199508060610.XAA28731@bob.indirect.com>
(Probably Renga 4-a or 4-b)
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
> >from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
> >sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
> bandages-to-be from consciousness and conscience plexiglassed against
the unfeasible & the give-me-a-rub type of moral history
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:18:59 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
>> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
>> >> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
>> >> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>> >> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
>> >> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
>> >the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
>> doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
>> with their rehab brothers & sisters in the metaphor they lived by
patching rent with cyclical amendments, dotted swiss and white pleats
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:20:59 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>> >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:23:46 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: eR 1
>On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
>> >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
>> >> morning
>> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
>> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
cleanly
>> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and untuned
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:26:01 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
>On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
>> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
>> Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
>> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>> Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
>> a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
>> the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
>> doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
>> loons in a lake one can see through, diving between sunrises
>> with a modicum of surprise, as in "Mr. Chimaera, please report to the
first furnace on the left without your usual unpracticed glaze
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:28:32 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
>> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
>> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws the anthology
>> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
>> sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
> subsuming, presupposing, debasing & whatnot, & the Masque said
halt with this tone row winded by Evelyn Wood scans through thesauri
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:31:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508061241.IAA09126@yorick.umd.edu>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Tom Mandel wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> condemmed.
> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
> to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
brings in the unknowing and the problem of diction
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:33:57 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
In-Reply-To: <199508061244.IAA09147@yorick.umd.edu>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Tom Mandel wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud.
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
> loons in a lake one can see through, diving between sunrises
> as a cat on catpaws, chocolate-milk-lipped, cardinal-listening
> monsoon-raking, irony-scraping (yes, the cat from hell) goes
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:36:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
In-Reply-To: <199508061245.IAA09173@yorick.umd.edu>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Tom Mandel wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> crowd the complacent out of the accident of truth? The body listened-to,
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:41:08 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508061820.LAA09780@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >condemmed.
> >promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> >stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
> >to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
> pretaxed a little roughage for the good of order modified by "the"
though not *the* The of holy hush and flush, and unmirroring
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:17:22 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
>> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> the theoretician and her guests by the balsa wood tower
on the verge of being crushed and therefore perfect in uncrowded
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 19:24:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Colleen Lookingbill <Zorlook@AOL.COM>
Subject: Canessa Park reading series
To the List:
Canessa Park Reading and Talk Series is has the new fall schedule completed.
Hope you that are local can make the events posted below and anyone on the
list that might be in the area, we would be delighted to see you. My husband,
Jordon Zorker and I host the series and will serve you tea and cookies! Now
there's an offer! Admission to all events is four dollars.
August 13 - Norma Cole and Duncan McNaughton, Sunday 3:00
September 10 - Steve Carl, John McNally, Anselm Berrigan, Sunday 3:00
September 17 - David Miller and Larry Fixel, Sunday 3:00
October 29, Carol Snow and Joshua Clover, Sunday 3:00
November 12 - Five Fingers Publishing Party, Sunday 3:00
December 8 - Spencer Selby and John Yau, Friday 8:00
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 16:36:39 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
[D
(Probably Renga 4-a or 4-b)
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
> >from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
> >sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
> bandages-to-be from consciousness and conscience plexiglassed against
> the unfeasible & the give-me-a-rub type of moral history
rubbertyred rubicund marshmallows fill the
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 16:39:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
(Probably Renga 4-b)
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
> >from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
> >sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
> bandages-to-be from consciousness and conscience plexiglassed against
> the unfeasible & the give-me-a-rub type of moral history
Orality expands tomorrow as a rerun burrows under
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 16:42:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>> >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
friends or were they came or did they not ever bother as
brothers to fit into the pattern traced on the delicate cusp
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 16:46:22 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: eR 1
>On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
>> >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
>> >> morning
>> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
>> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
cleanly
>> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed
when the
>>first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered
and untuned
The windows barricaded and the battens taut her finger slipped
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 16:50:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
george guitart wrote that
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Tom Mandel wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> crowd the complacent out of the accident of truth? The body listened-to,
lets breath free and syllables March past the hare madder than
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 11:52:07 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: not a renga so keep your finger off D
"green discorded fanatical and obtuse" isn't that getting a wee bit
poisonal?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 11:55:56 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Please stop
in Canada renga anagrams easily to anger
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:10:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Canadian Love Call
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
condemmed.
promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
pretaxed a little roughage for the good of order modified by "the"
"annotated""Notley-esque""hurly-burly""wigwam"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:19:21 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: And then she wrote
You wrote:
On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:49:52 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
> [D
>(Probably Renga 4-a or 4-b)
>
>> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
>> >from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>> >wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
>> >of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
>> >sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
>> bandages-to-be from consciousness and conscience plexiglassed against
>> the unfeasible & the give-me-a-rub type of moral history
>rubbertyred rubicund marshmallows fill the tunic made of a material called
whipped cream from the fifties
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:48:40 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Please stop
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.950807115556.416@ccnov2.auckland.ac.nz> from "Tony
Green" at Aug 7, 95 11:55:56 am
C eh N eh D eh
I think the Canadian aversion to renga, if there is such a thing, is due
to the cosmopolitan chaos it imposes upon my scenic Vancouver e-mailbox.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 13:31:27 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Comments: To: bowering@SFU.CA
Dear George,
I recall someone speaking lately of the 'rigor' required when
trucking across the 'slippery landscape of gender'. And one proposal which
followed was that we drop the words for gender they are so slippery, so hard
to grasp they fall from one's hands. My proposal, however, would be to
drench all the words we are interested in in whatever mucous membrane, goop,
bodily fluid we can lay hands on and like Ishmael said: SQUEEZE 'em good!
Are you with me?
Wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 13:48:04 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Comments: To: welford@HAWAII.EDU
Dear Gabrielle,
Do you have in mind the material on the settlement of
Polynesia? The emerging picture of an Age of Discovery, with planned voy-
ages ranging over 1000s of miles of the Pacific? I've just got back from an
incredible week on Cheju, an island off the coast of South Korea, which was
the venue for an exhibition of art from Japan, Korea, the Philipines,
Indonesia, Australia and New Zealand. The theme was 'From Island to Island'.
Billed as a Pre-Biennale, they plan a full-scale international event in
1998 with the same theme. I wasn't entirely clear but had the impression
they may limit the invitations to islands. Maria's posting suggests some of
the richness of the notion of island culture.
Wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:25:32 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
o renga renga renga
i made you out of clay
and when yr dry and ready
with renga i will play
O! renga renga renga
i made you out of clay
and if you're not nice to me
i'll make you go away
etc ad infinitum...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:19:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In message <199508042208.PAA15042@fraser.sfu.ca> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> Rod Smith wrote
>
> "I believe the spelling is guitar."
>
> Probably he meant to say
>
> "I believe that the spelling is guitar."
or guitart.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:18:34 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In message <199508062218.PAA12484@bob.indirect.com> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> >> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> >> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> >> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> >> >> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> >> >> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >> >> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> >> >> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> >> >the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> >> doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
> >> with their rehab brothers & sisters in the metaphor they lived by
> patching rent with cyclical amendments, dotted swiss and white pleats
bleating, and linen is definitely the poets' fabric of choice this summer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:18:14 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
In message <199508062228.PAA12620@bob.indirect.com> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws the anthology
> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
> >> sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
> > subsuming, presupposing, debasing & whatnot, & the Masque said
> halt with this tone row winded by Evelyn Wood scans through thesauri
but none so gracious as the brontosaurus on your upper right hand
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:17:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
In message <199508070149.SAA15114@bob.indirect.com> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> > [D
> >(Probably Renga 4-a or 4-b)
> >
> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> >lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
> >> >from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >> >wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >> >of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
> >> >sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
> >> bandages-to-be from consciousness and conscience plexiglassed against
> >> the unfeasible & the give-me-a-rub type of moral history
> >rubbertyred rubicund marshmallows fill the tunic made of a material called
> whipped cream from the fifties
concupiscence, combo, Dumbo and mason jars
> >
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:17:38 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In message <MAILQUEUE-101.950807133328.352@engnov1.auckland.ac.nz> UB Poetics
discussion group writes:
> Dear George,
> I recall someone speaking lately of the 'rigor' required when
> trucking across the 'slippery landscape of gender'. And one proposal which
> followed was that we drop the words for gender they are so slippery, so hard
> to grasp they fall from one's hands. My proposal, however, would be to
> drench all the words we are interested in in whatever mucous membrane, goop,
> bodily fluid we can lay hands on and like Ishmael said: SQUEEZE 'em good!
> Are you with me?
> Wystan
can you give an example?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 14:20:14 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Tom Beard writes:
>Are we allowed
>to use (e.g.) the myths of other cultures in our writings, in whatever way we
>want, or do we have to sit a test to prove our cultural sensitivity?
Use as make
has double-edges which render them both positive and exploitative terms.
It's sensitivity to those double-edges which is perhaps most nourishable.
Fuck the police. Be alert,humane and curious.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 14:20:07 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Quirky Urgencies
Tom, I appreciate your advocacy of the diversity made necessary by the
attempt to 'imitate' another's form. And I agree wholeheartedly that the
swerve occasioned by those attempts can generate fascinating work.
>Perhaps originality finds in imitation an interesting motor
>to appear.
Yup. 'Found' poems lever this issue wide open.
There's another characteristic that's appropriate to this discussion -
it's the nature of the impossibility of returning to a state before
learning, without the influence of that learning being somehow present. For
example when I first started writing ('75) people would say to me "so, how
long have you been doing cut ups?" The answer of course was that I never
had. But, at first glance my work could look as if it had been produced by
a cut up process. Well, the point is that I'd read Burroughs - in
particular samizdat collections such as 'White Subway' - but more
essentially I was exploring syntactic 'continuous discontinuities' as a
response to complexities of interactive human (for me at that time
urban-focussed) simultaneities as a response to a 'staring' for humane
consciousness in the post-Hiroshima, post-vietnam, post-colonial context of
a collapsing western world power. I was both thinking and writing in what
other's might consider disjunctions but which for me had 'internal logic'
in their making.
There is a bridge here to discussions about forms - influences and
imitations - with respect to 'lang-po' and folk cultures. There is also a
bridge to discussions on copyright and origination.
The renga fever which continues, gloriously unabated, displays familiar
paradigms in such respects.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:53:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga4?
In-Reply-To: <199508070149.SAA15114@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > [D
> >(Probably Renga 4-a or 4-b)
> >
> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> >lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the morning
> >> >from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >> >wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >> >of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows cleanly fit
> >> >sucking, winding, foraging, menacing, saving, stinging, erasing
> >> bandages-to-be from consciousness and conscience plexiglassed against
> >> the unfeasible & the give-me-a-rub type of moral history
> >rubbertyred rubicund marshmallows fill the tunic made of a material called
whipped cream from the fifties with anti-un-americana written all over it
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:44:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Canadian Love Call
In-Reply-To: <199508070110.SAA15696@ix3.ix.netcom.com>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Ron Silliman wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> condemmed.
> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
> to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
> pretaxed a little roughage for the good of order modified by "the"
> "annotated""Notley-esque""hurly-burly""wigwam"
"of" "the" "type" "that" "you" "find" "in" "ego" "commisures"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 05:16:49 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: downstream diddly sqwawk
>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> condemmed.
> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
> to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
> pretaxed a little roughage for the good of order modified by "the"
> "annotated""Notley-esque""hurly-burly""wigwam"
> imagery, with its narrative cast, in realtime installations.
But unlike news on the hour, with your anchor, Foghorn
Leghorn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 05:36:47 EDT
Reply-To: beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: beard@MET.CO.NZ
Subject: folk rhythms & forms/Walters
Comments: To: w.curnow@auckland.ac.nz
Wystan wrote:
>Tom, I don't understand 'formal possibilities, without any necessary
>reference to its cultural origins and context.'? First this is not the same
>as the Reily (sic) proposition, which refers to not 'understanding' the
>context concerned. Walters certainly did understand the context, indeed
>his understanding among Pakeha artists of the period was rivalled only
>by his friend Theo Schoon.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that Walters didn't understand the cultural
context of the koru - perhaps I worded my post poorly. What I meant was that a
_viewer_ can appreciate the formal patterns in a Walters painting without
having any knowledge of maoritanga her- or himself. A naive viewer (such as
myself :-) ) can enjoy the visual rhythms and shifting figure/ground
relationships of these paintings while knowing next to nothing about what the
koru design means to Maori. It's in _this_ sense that I think the
misunderstanding (or more likely non-understanding) can be creative.
As Jonathon said,
>Unencumbered
>by its original cultural baggage, the relatively regimented forms
>of making and doing within one culture are free to evolve in new
>directions when adapted by another.
While "cultural baggage" has the wrong connotations in this context, I think
that it's fair to say that Walters' paintings have "evolve[d] in new
directions", with the koru (at least to some eyes) as abstract design rather
than signifier (what does the koru signify to the average Pakeha, other than
Air NZ?).
I agree that Walters has great understanding of and sensitivity to Maori
culture (as his titles show - good point). But he has still been attacked for
"appropriating" the koru, and desecrating it by taking it out of context. I
have a vague recollection that Ngahuia te Awekotuku was offended by a title
that (I think) translates to "prayer" in English.
>Second, the notion that you can explore a form
>with any necessary reference to cultural context is a modernist heresy. No
>PC police required there.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean "with_out_ any necessary
reference"? And I'm intrigued by your use of the word "heresy". A heresy
implies an orthodoxy (and hence a police :-) ) - against which orthodoxy does
one trespass when exploring a form outside of its cultural context? And are you
using "heresy" in the pejorative sense? I'm quite partial to heresies, myself.
To bring this back to poetics, is it heresy to write a haiku (or indeed a
renga) without any knowledge of or reference to its place within Japanese
culture? Is it heretical to take phrases from (say) an American fashion
magazine and combine them into a found poem without any reference to their
original context? "Heresy, man!"
Tom.
______________________________________________________________________________
I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
I am/a dark place. | beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://metcon.met.co.nz/
and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 23:59:05 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: Canessa Park reading series
Comments: To: Colleen Lookingbill <Zorlook@AOL.COM>
On 6 Aug 95 at 19:24, Colleen Lookingbill wrote:
> To the List:
>
> Canessa Park Reading and Talk Series is has the new fall schedule completed.
On which continent, etc, is this?
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 21:53:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
In-Reply-To: <199508051113.EAA10961@ix4.ix.netcom.com> from "Ron Silliman" at
Aug 5, 95 04:13:33 am
Hey, who among us draws "theoretical conclusions." Ron. All the
theory that speaks to me over the past 30 years has persuaded me that
my old aversion to conclusions was right.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 21:50:31 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
In-Reply-To: <01HTPQ07ZK2A8Y4YPY@albnyvms.BITNET> from "Chris Stroffolino" at
Aug 5, 95 12:35:40 pm
Hey, there isnt any tension between Silliman and Bowering. We are
brothers, for Pete's sake. And I got nothing against renga. I just
like a more varied mailbox.
I'd just like to know how tall Ron is. Dies that renga bell?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 21:44:51 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <9508052043.AA00996@infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us> from
"Jonathan Brannen" at Aug 5, 95 03:43:30 pm
Responding to Jonathan Brannen post of Aug 5:
No, no. I come from a small town in the west; and back there
"artiste" meant something else altogether. There have been several
political positions taken re that.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 21:32:57 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
In-Reply-To: <199508061245.IAA09173@yorick.umd.edu> from "Tom Mandel" at Aug
6, 95 08:45:40 am
>In the pockets were coats and in the coats were pockets
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> In the windows were reflections and in the reflections were windows
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> between the breasts were lips and between the lips were breasts
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> flicka my wrist and kicka my foot and tilta my head
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 15:40:05 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
Comments: To: beard@MET.CO.NZ
On Aug 6, Tom Beard wrote:
Jonathon said,
>I believe in was the composer Terry Reily speaking of his composition C
>who said that progress in the arts frequently resulted from members of
>one culture imitate the style and methods of another culture without
>understanding its context within the original culture. Unencumbered
>by its original cultural baggage, the relatively regimented forms
>of making and doing within one culture are free to evolve in new
>directions when adapted by another.
Yes, exactly! But when the _imitator_ is from a culture that has colonised
theculture that produced the _imititated_ form, the imitator better watchout
for the PC police. Viz Gordon Walters' use of the Maori koru design, and his
wonderful explorations of its formal possibilities, without any necessary
reference to its cultural origins and context. But that's "appropriation"
(sorry guys, didn't see the copyright symbol) and hence not on. Are we
allowed to use (e.g.) the myths of other cultures in our writings, in
whatever way we want, or do we have to sit a test to prove our cultural
sensitivity?
Tom, I don't understand 'formal possibilities, without any necessary
reference to its cultural origins and context.'? First this is not the same
as the Reily (sic) proposition, which refers to not 'understanding' the
context concerned. Walters certainly did understand the context,indeed
his understanding among Pakeha artists of the period was rivalled only
by his friend Theo Schoon. Second, the notion that you can explore a form
with any necessary reference to cultural context is a modernist heresy. No
PC police required there. And third, if there is no necessary reference to
Maori origins and context why did Walters give the pAintings Maori names?
Wystan
_
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 21:19:30 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.950807133328.352@engnov1.auckland.ac.nz> from
"Wystan Curnow" at Aug 7, 95 01:31:27 pm
I pretty well agree with Wystan. I am usually suspicious of those
words one sees in reviews, such as "rigor" or "sinuous prose" or the
like. I am also repelled by awkwardnesses caused by she/he or that
really unattractive (s)he, etc. I am not afraid of "slippery
landscapes," either, living in a rainy climate. I am not interested
much in rules and proscriptions. If you dont like to read Ishmael
Reed because he is adjudged misogynist in some circles (usually of
inferior writers), then dont read him. Ditto for Pound if you will
not read anti-semite social creditors. As it says in the Bible, "go
ye forth and write." I usually find that I enjoy reading writing a
lot more than confronting ideas that come thru uninspired prose.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 03:58:53 EDT
Reply-To: beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: beard@MET.CO.NZ
Subject: More corrections
Here's Microsoft Word's "correction" of Catullus XI, followed by a poem that
the NZers on the list should easily recognise.
Furry ate aurally
Fury eat aureole, commits chattily,
sue in extremes penetrate indoors,
litmus out lounge resonant era
tuned otter undo,
sire in hyraces Arabs molest,
sea sagas Seagate ferrous pathos,
site quake septum gaminess colorant
aqua aura nil's,
site trains atlas grad outer aloes,
caesuras unisons monument mango,
gallium rhenium horrible ere quire util-
mosque Britons,
ammonia haiku, queer kumquat ferret colon task
camel item, tempter simile parrot,
pause noontide mead paella
non bona dicta.
cum suits eau valet queen mochas,
quasi simile complex tenet trek scents,
null amass ere, sew ides tedium ominous
Iliad rumens;
neck mum receptor, out ante, amore,
quip lilies cult sec idiot use lute pretty
ultimo floss, praetor aunt post qualm
cactus Atari east.
Poker care any
Pokier Karen Anna nag way of waif ape.
White ate doe, a hike, marina anal a!
I hide a, hockey may ram!
Qua mate ahead I tea aroma a!
I Korea the aloha a maraca I toe rag.
Mack tofu I auk roommate a!
I whine a, hooky maid ran!
Kay mate ahead I tie aorta a!
Thai thug take recta, tutu at tack ring.
Kid kite to kiwi, rare rare any a!
I hinge a, hooch Mao rap!
Qua mate ahead I the aloha a!
Whereto wheat take pence, eau Peru auk pepper.
Quo take aroma maul tong ant a!
I hive a, hock maim rat!
Kay mate oh I ate aorta a!
______________________________________________________________________________
I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
I am/a dark place. | beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://metcon.met.co.nz/
and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 22:48:16 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: ringing renga
I think the renga has finally drowned out just about everything else.
It's rather daunting having 30 or more renga messages in only one day.
I like the renga, but I like the else, too.
charles alexander [===========^^============]
[ <> ]
chax press [ maybe a <> pages ]
[ time <> letters ]
phone & fax: 612-721-6063 [ upon <> frames ]
[ once <> motion ]
e-mail: mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu [ <> ]
[===========vv============]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 15:30:29 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
boats connect islands as cars (automobiles) connect towns and cities
in land-mass continent countries "nations" are made up in clusters and
archipelagos of islands in watery zones there are spaces between
"nations" in oceans that's something different too that's what
you're saying?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 22:48:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <199508070458.XAA19252@zoom.bga.com>
Hi, list. I was wondering if anybody would be willing to reflect back to
me their experiences with various translations of Baudelaire. I am not
interested in establishing whether one translation is considered "best"
or "definitive", but if anyone knows one or more translations, tell
me--did it come close, inasmuch as that's possible, or did it completely
miss the old bateau ivre?
Thanks--
Gwyn McVay
gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 23:19:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <30264ae70374002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Mon, 7 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> In message <199508062218.PAA12484@bob.indirect.com> UB Poetics discussion group
> writes:
> > >> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> >> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> >> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> >> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> >> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> >> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> >> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> >> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > >> >> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > >> >> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > >> >> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > >> >> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> > >> >the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> > >> doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
> > >> with their rehab brothers & sisters in the metaphor they lived by
> > patching rent with cyclical amendments, dotted swiss and white pleats
> bleating, and linen is definitely the poets' fabric of choice this summer
> but the buccaneers of opinion are at their desks while we play
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:05:08 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Comments: To: damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Maria,
guitart a here!
Wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 23:49:28 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Responding to George Bowering 6 Aug;
Ok, George, if you're certain.
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 22:29:24 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: folk rhythms & forms
In-Reply-To: <30264c8a0fce002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 7,
95 12:25:32 pm
maria's song is truly the bestest.
I would like to start singing a round via email.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 02:40:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Rengada
In
And flew
First
The book and
Go endlessly,
The caravan
These lace
Power
Sight
would
Belief
a modicum
the phalarope
doused
with their
patching rent
bleating,
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 02:44:42 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
George Bowering wrote:
>Hey, who among us draws "theoretical conclusions." Ron. All the
>theory that speaks to me over the past 30 years has persuaded me that
>my old aversion to conclusions was right.
>
Oh. I thought that was an "aversion to concussions." I stands
corrected.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 02:46:28 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
>I'd just like to know how tall Ron is.
5'9", 205 pounds, same dimensions as Kevin Mitchell (without the gold
tooth)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:07:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950807224410.19323C-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> from
"Gwyn McVay" at Aug 7, 95 10:48:33 pm
Baudelaire sure missed the ole bateau ivre --that was rimbaud's
trip...
>
> Hi, list. I was wondering if anybody would be willing to reflect back to
> me their experiences with various translations of Baudelaire. I am not
> interested in establishing whether one translation is considered "best"
> or "definitive", but if anyone knows one or more translations, tell
> me--did it come close, inasmuch as that's possible, or did it completely
> miss the old bateau ivre?
>
> Thanks--
>
>
> Gwyn McVay
> gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
>
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 07:35:38 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Paul Naylor ok 157602 <PKNAYLOR@MSUVX2.MEMPHIS.EDU>
Subject: Nathaniel Mackey's CD
Nathaniel Mackey's compact disk, _Strick: Song of the Andoumboulou 16-25_, is
now available from _Spoken Engine_. On this high-quality, digital recording,
Mackey reads ten recent installments from his ongoing serial poem, _Song of the
Andoumboulou_,to the accompaniment of Royal Hartigan on percussion and Hafez
Modirzadeh on reeds and flute.
The CD costs $14, postage paid. Make checks payable to _Spoken Engine_ and send
to
Spoken Engine
P.O. Box 771739
Memphis, TN 38177-1739
MAIL
SEND
in%"poetics@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
in%"poetics@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
SEND
in%"poetics@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
in%"poetics@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:05:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <199508081207.IAA13544@thor.albany.edu>
Yeah, yeah. But everybody always says them together like they were joined
at the hip or something--Baudelairerimbaudverlaine, etc.--so I figured
they could at least be sitting in the same boat.
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Pierre Joris wrote:
> Baudelaire sure missed the ole bateau ivre --that was rimbaud's
> trip...
>
> >
> > Hi, list. I was wondering if anybody would be willing to reflect back to
> > me their experiences with various translations of Baudelaire. I am not
> > interested in establishing whether one translation is considered "best"
> > or "definitive", but if anyone knows one or more translations, tell
> > me--did it come close, inasmuch as that's possible, or did it completely
> > miss the old bateau ivre?
> >
> > Thanks--
> >
> >
> > Gwyn McVay
> > gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
> >
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
> Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
> Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
> SUNY Albany |
> Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
> tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
> email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
> joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
> =======================================================================
>
Gwyn McVay
gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
"When I hear the word 'gun' I reach for my art."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:42:47 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
Gwyn's query about Baudelaire came in just after Tom Beard's
/Microsoft's corrections to Cattulus; that "coincidence" reminded
me of a collection i put out of Baudelaire translitterations by
Andrew Klimek--human, not mechanical, intervention...
The He Who Is Autonomous, Timorous, & Few
I am the milkshake without color
And without hands, come the butcher,
Come Moses the rocker!
And I am wild as a pauper,
For the abbreviation of my Sahara,
The jailer has the eyes of Southern France.
My desire has gone, fled the desperation
Over the black's salty tears.
Comes a vassal who pretends to be so large,
And in my heart quills and coins descend
The chairs of bloodspots retire
Come the tambourine who ducks the charge
Nor am I in false accord
In the divine symphony,
Grace of voracious Irony
Who has secured me and who has killed me?
Elle is in my voice, the crier!
It's all of my blood, the poison black!
I am the sinister mirror
Or am meagerly regarded!
I am the place and the Cocteau!
I am the souffle and the joy!
I am the members and the red,
And the victim and the ass!
I am of the heart of the vampire,
--One of the great abandoners
Of the eternal dire damnings,
And who never cries more than laughs!
--Andrew Klimek
from _Flowers of Mel_
Burning Press, 1990
luigi
TRR/Burning Press
au462@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:47:05 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950808090445.29691B-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> from
"Gwyn McVay" at Aug 8, 95 09:05:45 am
...also known as the "three men in a boat" version of frog lit...BTW
re The Drunken Boat, check out Clayton Eshleman's version in his
_Conductors of the Pit_. It's one of the more impossible poems to
translate. Of that threesome, drop Verlaine & substitute Nerval --
much better poet, & some excellent translations of the great sonnets
by Robin Blaser (plus criticism of those by Duncan).
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:07:13 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
In message <199508080946.CAA11474@ix7.ix.netcom.com> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> >I'd just like to know how tall Ron is.
>
>
> 5'9", 205 pounds, same dimensions as Kevin Mitchell (without the gold
> tooth)
who's kevin mitchell?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:18:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: republicans
a little gem to lance your day...md
------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------
Subject: House Republicans Vote Down Fourth Amendment
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date sent: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 08:54:34 EST
> Send reply to: Association of Black Sociologists
> <ABSLST-L%CMUVM.BITNET@suvm.acs.syr.EDU>
>
> Here is a little tidbit that should cause everyone on this list to say Hmmm.
> a funny (as in "disturbing," not "hilarious") anecdote: i didn't hear
> about this when it happened.
>
> ==========
> February 7, 1995 - House Republicans Vote Down Fourth Amendment
>
> Once again, here I go including something not strictly Newt. Gingrich
> is however the leader of the House Republicans so ... During the
> debate today over the House Republicans' bill about the Exclusionary
> Rule, the House Black Caucus introduced an amendment to the bill that
> the Republicans promptly voted down. The amendment turned out to be
> the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, verbatim. The House
> Republicans were "chagrined." The vote was 303-121, meaning that a
> number of Democrats joined the Republicans.
>
>
> Here's the Fourth Amendment:
>
> Amendment Article 4
>
> Right of Search and Seizure Regulated.
>
> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
> and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
> violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by
> oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched,
> and the persons or things to be seized.
> =======
>
>
> Hard to believe they didn't recognize the language. I hope
> they were all thouroughly embarrassed.
>
> Dan
------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------
------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:23:14 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In message <199508081347.JAA00597@loki.hum.albany.edu> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> ....also known as the "three men in a boat" version of frog lit...BTW
> re The Drunken Boat, check out Clayton Eshleman's version in his
> _Conductors of the Pit_. It's one of the more impossible poems to
> translate. Of that threesome, drop Verlaine & substitute Nerval --
> much better poet, & some excellent translations of the great sonnets
> by Robin Blaser (plus criticism of those by Duncan).
>
>pj
speaking of AR, i know louise varese's translation of some of the letters and
Illuminations is spozed to be good, but she translates "je est un autre" as "i
am someone else," or something like that (don't have the book in front of me),
which i think domesticates a really wild statement in an unfortunate way. what's
the opinion of relatively more native speakers (I know yr not "french", pj, but
yr knowledge thereof is certainly vast...)--md
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:04:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <3027734f5f37002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 8,
95 09:23:14 am
md writes:
> speaking of AR, i know louise varese's translation of some of the letters and
> Illuminations is spozed to be good, but she translates "je est un autre" as "i
> am someone else," or something like that (don't have the book in front of me),
> which i think domesticates a really wild statement in an unfortunate way. what's
> the opinion of relatively more native speakers (I know yr not "french", pj, but
> yr knowledge thereof is certainly vast...)--md
don't know if it's vast, Maria, but thanks for lancing my day that
way. The Varese translations were excvellent, but are in need of
overwhaul. The famous sentence you quote is (& has beeen) much better
translated as "I is another."
pj
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:03:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Willa Jarnagin <jarnagin@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <199508042208.PAA15042@fraser.sfu.ca>
>
> "I believe the spelling is guitar."
>
> Probably he meant to say
>
> "I believe that the spelling is guitar."
>
Yes, but do you BELIEVE in guitar?
Willa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:10:23 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: desire / and the 39 steps
mirrors picking up self to flower, flame, in darkened summer room: he, all joy, compatriot, companion, the elemental he for whom all care is urgent, needed now. and so the petals open and in budding, joy is termination, mine.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:20:42 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.950808150709.384@engnov1.auckland.ac.nz>
Who or what is "guitart"
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Wystan Curnow wrote:
> Maria,
> guitart a here!
>
> Wystan
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:27:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rengada
In-Reply-To: <199508080940.CAA11179@ix7.ix.netcom.com>
Ron's song to which i wish to add:
> In
> And flew
> First
> The book and
> Go endlessly,
> The caravan
> These lace
> Power
> Sight
> would
> Belief
> a modicum
> the phalarope
> doused
> with their
> patching rent
> bleating,
but i'll go swinging
& a-rengaing
with my very favorite maria
the one they call
nomad-air-am
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:34:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
The famous sentence you quote is (& has beeen) much better
> translated as "I is another."
> pj
>
>
yes, and i also like to think of it as "'I' is an/Other." with lots of little
estranging punctuation marks for defamiliarising overkill.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 18:16:33 BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "I.LIGHTMAN" <I.Lightman@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
Just to recommend a stunning book, translating and re-translating
the same single Baudelaire poem forty times, called Spleen, by
Nicholas Moore, a British poet; he wrote all the poems as an angry
response to a translation competition run by a British newspaper
in the sixties, and sent each one under a more and more ridiculous
psuedonym, until the judge, George Steiner, spotted the game, and
awarded a Special Mention prize; I'll bring in some of the translations
and put them on the list in the next few days. I think, myself, that
Baudelaire has suffered from being block-translated, ie the whole of
the Sulky Flowers (ho ho) book, by one translator commissioned by a
publisher; he would be best served by an anthology of translations by
many translators, I feel,
Ira Lightman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:33:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
u tell me.--md
someone writes:
> Who or what is "guitart"
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Wystan Curnow wrote:
>
> > Maria,
> > guitart a here!
> >
> > Wystan
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:35:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rengada
In message <Pine.3.89.9508081216.B538976753-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> Ron's song to which i wish to add:
>
> > In
> > And flew
> > First
> > The book and
> > Go endlessly,
> > The caravan
> > These lace
> > Power
> > Sight
> > would
> > Belief
> > a modicum
> > the phalarope
> > doused
> > with their
> > patching rent
> > bleating,
> but i'll go swinging
> & a-rengaing
> with my very favorite maria
> the one they call
> nomad-air-am
om gate gate parasam
guitarte nam yo ho
RENGA
kyo
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:12:23 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508061241.IAA09126@yorick.umd.edu>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Tom Mandel wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> condemmed.
> promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
> to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
burst into joyous worm worm through a papaya hot morning
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:16:19 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <sschultz@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rengaphobia
In-Reply-To: <30276f904326002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
A baseball player. Plays in Japan now when he's not pouting.
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> In message <199508080946.CAA11474@ix7.ix.netcom.com> UB Poetics discussion
> group writes:
> > >I'd just like to know how tall Ron is.
> >
> >
> > 5'9", 205 pounds, same dimensions as Kevin Mitchell (without the gold
> > tooth)
>
> who's kevin mitchell?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:19:03 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Rengada
In-Reply-To: <3027a0674905002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 8,
95 12:35:37 pm
Oh mY, everything is now subject to rengafication! Identity crises abound.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:21:17 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Harper
In-Reply-To: <30264ab00193002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 7,
95 12:17:38 pm
Can somebody help me. I recently heard a reading given by Michael
S. Harper and need some of his bood titles. Thanks.
Ryan Knighton
knighton@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:18:48 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
In-Reply-To: <199508061818.LAA09763@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:25:39 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508061744.C540074389-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
> > >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:32:38 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508061740.F540074389-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> > the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> > doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
> > loons in a lake one can see through, diving between sunrises
> > with a modicum of surprise, as in "Mr. Chimaera, please report to the
> barnacle ormorderately or isn't it proper to sandwich
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:11:02 PDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jerry Rothenberg <jrothenb@CARLA.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
Since Pierre Joris is my dear friend & sometime collaborator, let me put in
a bid to open up the word "another" & bring it back to two words; thus:
"I is an other." At least that's how we have it in zee big new anthology,
Pierre: page 44 of the recently acquired bound pages -- & a much better
entry into questions of "self" & "other."
Talk to you soon.
JERRY
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 14:39:35 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
Charles,
Only thirty rengas per day? I have sixty-two total messages today, in less
than 24 hours. But if I can just see a subject heading that indicates some
renga-izing is going to follow, then perhaps i can delete that message and
go on. unfortunately, now some folks are using the subject headings where
some non-renga-izing was taking place, so I'm really all turned around
here and DROWNING IN RENGA!
AGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVEN AS i WRITE MORE RENGAS ARE PORING IN!
(help)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:40:22 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <199508062220.PAA12494@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> >> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:42:51 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: eR 1
In-Reply-To: <199508062223.PAA12532@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> >> >> morning
> >> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> cleanly
> >> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
> first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and untuned
> by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 14:47:21 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
Gwyn,
Regarding trans. of Baudelaire: what do you mean by "close" translation?
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 14:55:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950808081007.25022A-100000@uhunix4.its.Hawaii.Edu>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Tom Mandel wrote:
>
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > condemmed.
> > promised what she practiced as triangular blue feats soothed
> > stunned images into form, saying a need, similar days
> > to those not before, yet stored, whose sifted haze
> burst into joyous worm worm through a papaya hot morning
not without counterbleeding the omega of the knowable
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:01:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
On Aug 8 G Welford wrote:
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss
"The Code of the Net"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:03:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <9508081811.AA26156@carla.UCSD.EDU> from "Jerry Rothenberg" at
Aug 8, 95 11:11:02 am
I sit co rrected, Jerome, of course it's an other. The space between
makes the difference indeed.
>
> Since Pierre Joris is my dear friend & sometime collaborator, let me put in
> a bid to open up the word "another" & bring it back to two words; thus:
> "I is an other." At least that's how we have it in zee big new anthology,
> Pierre: page 44 of the recently acquired bound pages -- & a much better
> entry into questions of "self" & "other."
>
> Talk to you soon.
>
> JERRY
>
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 16:00:06 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <00994926.54F84834.32@admin.njit.edu>
Burt,
"Close"--that's a good question. I'm reading Donald Revell's translation
of Apollinaire's _Alcools_ right now, and while it departs considerably,
at times, from the literal French, the *quality* of the language--sound
quality, use of syntax and connotation--works very well. I guess by
"close" I mean something like "expressing, as much as is possible, the
poetics/sensibility of the original."
Gwyn McVay
gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:33:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In message <9508081811.AA26156@carla.UCSD.EDU> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> Since Pierre Joris is my dear friend & sometime collaborator, let me put in
> a bid to open up the word "another" & bring it back to two words; thus:
> "I is an other." At least that's how we have it in zee big new anthology,
> Pierre: page 44 of the recently acquired bound pages -- & a much better
> entry into questions of "self" & "other."
>
> Talk to you soon.
>
> JERRY
yay. i like this way.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 11:05:17 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: Rengada
Comments: To: damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
> Ron's song to which i wish, after maria, to add:
>
> > In
> > And flew
> > First
> > The book and
> > Go endlessly,
> > The caravan
> > These lace
> > Power
> > Sight
> > would
> > Belief
> > a modicum
> > the phalarope
> > doused
> > with their
> > patching rent
> > bleating,
> but i'll go swinging
> & a-rengaing
> with my very favorite maria
> the one they call
> nomad-air-am
om gate gate parasam
guitarte nam yo ho
RENGA
kyo
rosie a gog oh
renga renga
little ripper
ich ich ich ich
the misanthrope
on a rope
in his tent a
active agent
an expletive after
explosions
the whole hokey
ball of tarts
got up to
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 21:44:21 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
Response to Willa Jarnagin,
I believe in guitar and non-standard tunings as well.
Best,
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:45:19 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Mumia Abu-Jamal
Comments: cc: woodland@tmn.com
You don't have to be tenured (or even University affiliated) to sign
this, nor from the Tri-State area. You don't (if you have followed this
case at all) even have to believe in/assert Abu-Jamal's innocence. His
trial and subsequent legal misadventures have been like the Worst of
the 60s redux when it comes to basic travesties.
Feel free to pass this on!
Ron Silliman
-------------------------------------
Forwarding this in hope that list members will be interested in lending
their support for Mumia Abu-Jamal, who remains on death row in
Philadelphia even though he just yesterday received a stay of
execution. Abu-Jamal was among the founders of the Philly Black
Panthers in the 1960s. Prosecutors have consistently used his
political writings from the 1960s and early 1970s to establish his
guilt in the killing of a local police officer. If any of you doubt
the relevance of Abu-Jamal's case to the topics discussed on this list,
look no further than today's NYT, which explains that "The hearing,
like the trial, has been haunted by the unresolved political and
cultural conflicts of the 1960's and 1970's...."
Marc Stein, History Departments, University of Pennsylvania/Bryn
Mawr College
mstein1@sas.upenn.edu
SEND YOUR NAME FOR INCLUSION TO f40taylr@ptsmail.ptsem.edu
A M A J
Academics for Mumia Abu-Jamal
________________________________________________________________________
___
FOR IMMEDIATE ATTENTION JULY
27, 1995
CONTACTS: AMAJ Coordinator, Prof. Mark McClain Taylor, Princeton
Theological Seminary, P.O. Box 821, Princeton, NJ 08542.
Phone: (609) 497-7918. Fax: (609) 497-7728.
E-Mail: <f40taylr@ptsmail.ptsem.edu
PRESS RELEASE
_____________
AMAJ IS STILL GROWING WITH 200 SIGNERS:
NOW AIMING FOR HUNDREDS OF NEW NAMES !
Any faculty out there with affiliations to academic
institutions, please lend your names to AMAJ, and sign on with support
for the "Declaration for Mumia Abu-Jamal." Send your name and
addresses to the above contacts. We are compiling names and money for
large ads in THE NEW YORK TIMES and THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER.
AMAJ held a highly successful press conference in Philadelphia
on Tuesday, July 25, 1995. Almost all the press covered us - some
fairly, some not. The PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER published a story on us
under the heading, "Academics, 144 Strong Seek New Trial". We are not
only getting our position out there, we are getting a saner speech out
into the public arena, to counter the incendiary bloodlust of
Philadelphia Mayor Rendell and of Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge.
Special respect goes out to the Philadelphia-based faculty who
led the way and addressed the press eloquently: from the University of
Pennsylvania, Ann Farnsworth-Alvear (History), Farah Griffin (English),
E. Ann Matter (Religious Studies and Womens Studies), Antonio McDaniel
(Sociology), and Ines Salazar (English), and from Temple University
were Rebecca Alpert (Women's Studies), and Daniel Tompkins (Classics),
and from Swarthmore College, Mark Wallace (Religious Studies).
Here is the "Declaration" we have been presenting to the press,
and which we hope you can sign:
A DECLARATION FOR MUMIA ABU-JAMAL
Across our many differences as scholars and citizens, we in
unity declare our concern that full and deliberate justice be extended
to Mr. Mumia Abu-Jamal.
As faculty of the tri-state area of Pennsylvania/New Jersey/New
York, and increasingly throughout the nation and world, we - PROTEST
Governor Ridge's signing of Mr. Abu-Jamal's death warrant.
- DEMAND Judge Sabo's removal from the case.
- CALL for a stay of execution AND a new trial.
======== END DECLARATION ========
Some prominent signers include Manning Marable, Henry Louis Gates,
Jr., Cornel West, Houston A. Baker, Jr., Nell Painter, Richard A. Falk,
Molefi Asante. The main point, though, is that MANY of us are signing
this for Mumia and for what he stands. Send your name now if you can.
Mark McClain Taylor, AMAJ Coordinator
Princeton Theological Seminary ***** NOTES from TAYLOR,MARK (MARK
TAYLOR @
TEMPLE) at 7/27/95 1:58p
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Eric Mar
New College of California School of Law
50 Fell Street
San Francisco CA 94102
[415] 241-1352
EMAIL: emar@ncgate.newcollege.edu
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ann Farnsworth-Alvear
History Department
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6379
tel. (215) 898-5704
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 16:47:09 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Islands
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.950807135005.416@engnov1.auckland.ac.nz>
On Mon, 7 Aug 1995, Wystan Curnow wrote:
> Dear Gabrielle,
> Do you have in mind the material on the settlement of
> Polynesia? The emerging picture of an Age of Discovery, with planned voy-
> ages ranging over 1000s of miles of the Pacific?
Yes, that's just what I was thinking of. And at a Pacific Writers Forum
last year, people agreed that there is still a tight web of relationship
wherever islanders are. They send and bring things back and forth
among family members who have stayed and ones who have left. I found
this to be true when I was living in Ireland too. Something about
islands.
I've just got back from an
> incredible week on Cheju, an island off the coast of South Korea, which was
> the venue for an exhibition of art from Japan, Korea, the Philipines,
> Indonesia, Australia and New Zealand. The theme was 'From Island to Island'.
> Billed as a Pre-Biennale, they plan a full-scale international event in
> 1998 with the same theme. I wasn't entirely clear but had the impression
> they may limit the invitations to islands. Maria's posting suggests some of
> the richness of the notion of island culture.
> Wystan
Gabrielle
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 21:51:44 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
Ira,
Who published the Nicholas Moore book Spleen?
Best
Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 17:02:10 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: more crazies (fwd)
speaking of gender, more to be scared by... Gab.
The promise keepers held a rally in Houston at the Astro Dome recently.
Fourty two thousand paid approx. $50 a head to attend. With that kind of
money the crazies can get people like Dole and Green Wrench to do almost any
thing!
REPRINTED WITH PERMISSION IN GROUND ZERO NEWS, THE PUBLICATION OF GROUND
ZERO, A GAY AND LESBIAN ADVOCACY ORGANISATION IN THE BELLY OF THE BEAST, (THE
VATICAN OF FUNDAMENTALISM), COLORADO SPRINGS COLORADO. ADDRESS CORRESPONDENCE
TO: GZ P. O. BOX 1982, COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80901 1-719-635-6086 FAX:
1-719-635-6106 EMAI;: GRNDZEROCO@A0L..COM
By Russ BELLANT*
Mania in the Stadia:
The Origins and Goals of Promise Keepers**
Promise Keepers is a rapidly growing Christian men's movement that last
year rallied about 300,000 men, filling six football stadia in colorful
displays of male "spiritual renewal." The group plans to double the number of
participants and stadium events in 1995. While projecting an image of
spirituality, leaders of Promise Keepers seem to be bent on gaining social
and political power. In the world of Promise Keepers, men are to submit to a
cell group that in turn is closely controlled by a national hierarchy. Most
important, women are to submit absolutely to their husbands or fathers.
Promise Keepers may be the strongest, most organized effort to capitalize
on male backlash in the country today. Conceived by University of Colorado
football coach Bill McCartney in 1990 Promise Keepers says men should
"reclaim" authority from their wives - to whom they have supposedly ceded too
much.
Bill McCartney's goal in 1990 was to fill a sports stadium with Christian
men to exhort them into his philosophy. The following year, he attracted
4,200 men to a basketball arena; 22,000 men came to Boulder's Folsom Stadium
in 1992,1 followed by 50,000 men in 1993. Promoted by powerful elements of
the Religious Right, Promise Keepers filled six stadia in 1994; the largest
event was in the Hoosier Dome in Indianapolis, which drew 62,000 men. The
only women present were custodians and concession stand workers.2
So far in 1995, Promise Keepers events in Detroit and Los Angeles have
drawn over 72,000 each.# (Ed. Note--Denver recently exceeded expectations )
Don't Ask, Take
The manifesto of the movement is Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper, a
book published for the group by James Dobson's organization, Focus on the
Family.4 Evangelist Tony Brown, in his contributing essay, explains how to
deal with women. "I can hear you saying, 'I want to be a spiritually pure
man. Where do I start?' The first thing you do," Brown explains, "is sit down
with your wife and say something like this: 'Honey I've made a terrible
mistake. I've given you my role. I gave up leading this family, and I forced
you to take my place. Now I must reclaim that role.' Don't misunderstand what
I'm saying here. I'm not suggesting that you ask for your role back, I'm
urging you to take it back." [Emphasis in the original].5 While insisting to
male readers that there is to be "no compromise" on authority, he suggests
that women readers submit for the "survival of our culture."
Total Submission
While serving as an assistant football coach at the University of Michigan
in Ann Arbor, Bill McCartney encountered and was deeply influenced by the
Word of God (WOG) community. McCartney has said that WOG leader Jim Berlucci
is one of the two men who most influenced his life.6 WOG, a select and
insular group of about 1,600 adults, practiced "shepherding/discipleship,"
which required total submission to a person called the "head." Members were
required to submit their schedules in advance and account for every hour of
every day. Marriage partner, movie choices, jobs, and other decisions also
had to be approved by this leader.
Members who questioned authority or women who questioned their extreme
submission to men, were subject to often traumatic "exorcisms." WOG members
were trained to see the world with suspicion and contempt - as an enemy. They
believed that they were specially chosen by God to fight the Antichrist.7
When McCartney was hired by the University of Colorado, WOG introduced him to
the WOG-linked "Vineyard" church, which has a parish in Boulder. Vineyard
churches emphasize "signs and wonders" and "prophecy." Vineyard leader John
Wimber calls their work "power evangelism" and describes his followers as
"self- conscious members of God's army, sent to do battle against the forces
of the kingdom of darkness. "One is either in God's Kingdom," Wimber insists,
"or Satan's."8
"The Purpose of War"
McCartney's pastor at the Boulder Valley Vineyard, Rev. James Ryle, whom
McCartney says is the other major influence in his life,9 conducts a
".prophetic" ministry and participates in conferences with men who claim to
be prophets in the Ist-century sense of the term.IO Ryle believes Promise
Keepers, of which he is a board member,11 is the fulfillment of the
biblically prophesied end-time army described in the book of Joel - a
terrifying army from which there is no escape. "Never have 300,000 men come
together throughout human history, he declared, "except for the purpose of
war." He says he has a vision of Promise Keepers purging America of
secularism, which he con- siders "an abortion" of godliness.12
Ryle spoke last year at a secret Colorado conclave to plan
anti-gay/lesbian electoral strategies. He said, "America is in the midst of a
cultural revolution, which has poised our nation precariously on the brink of
moral chaos, which is caused by what I am referring to as the crisis of
homosexuality."13
While Promise Keepers is not currently a political force in its own right,
McCartney leads by example. He has repeatedly attacked reproductive rights,14
and he campaigned for the 1992 anti-gay Amendment 2 ballot initiative as a
member of the board of Colorado for Family Values, the sponsor of the
initiative.15
His rally addresses have been uncompromising, "Take the nation for Jesus
Christ," he directed in 1992.16 The following year he said, "What you are
about to hear, is God's word to the men of this nation. We are going to war
as of tonight. We have divine power; that is our weapon. We will not
compromise. Wherever truth is at risk, in the schools or legislature, we are
going to contend for it. We will win "17
No less militant is Promise Keepers co-founder Dave Wardell18 who told The
Denver Post, "We want our nation to return to God. We're drawing a line in
the sand here.... There has already been controversy about abortion and
homosexuality. I hope there won't be any physical confrontations...... 19
Something Like Punching Your Lights Out
Promise Keepers' national staff has grown rapidly from a handful to 150,
with a $22 million budget.20 But its significance is primarily at the local
and church levels.
Promise Keepers urges men to form "accountability" groups of no more than
five members, within which they are expected to submit all aspects of their
lives to review and rebuke. Each member must answer any probes concerning his
marriage, family, finances, sexuality, or business activity.21 (GZN Ed Note.:
Such cells are said to exist at Focus on the Family among their employees and
an employee that takes such things outside of their cell to discuss is in
serious trouble.)
Such cells, usually operating within a church or parachurch group, are led
by a "Point Man" who answers to an "Ambassador" who reports to headquarters
in Boulder. Decisions about local or state activity are ultimately made in
Boulder.22
"All of our success here is contingent upon men taking part in small
groups when they return home," Promise Keepers spokesman Steve Chavis told
Christianity Today. Less elegantly, Dave Wardell, the national coordinator
for local leaders, explains, "I can go home and maybe still be the same guy
after a conference. But if I have another guy calling up, holding me
accountable, asking, 'How are you treating your wife? Are you still cheating
on your income taxes? Are you looking at your secretaries with lust?' it
makes a difference. I don't think a woman would get in my face, go toe to toe
with a guy, whereas a guy could tell me, 'I don't like it. And if you don't
lis- ten to me, I'll punch your lights out.' Something like that."23
These principles and structure, which are similar to the shepherding/
discipleship model of the Word of God, would take years to implement and
introduce a highly disciplined group. Most men drawn to Promise Keepers have
probably never heard of shepherding/discipleship (which is still not widely
known even within the evangelical community)24 and may be deeply offended if
they experience the degree of manipulation and control (to which they may be
"submitting" themselves and their families) as has occurred in many
shepherding/disciple situations.
Trojan Horses?
Top Christian Right leaders in the last year have, joined Dobson in
promoting Promise Keepers. These have notably included Pat Robertson of the
Christian Coalition and 700 Club, D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries,
and Bill Bright of Campus Crusade for Christ. Dobson, who along with
Robertson, Kennedy, and Bright, is a member of the secretive, radical-right
Council for National Policy, 25 is a central figure in Promise Keepers. Not
only is he the publisher of the main text of the movement, he is a featured
speaker at Promise Keeper events, which in turn sell tapes of his speeches.
Focus on the Family's network of political action groups, called community
Impact Committees function much like Promise Keepers' cell groups within
conservative churches. Largely invisible to individuals outside these
churches, these committees are organized at the state and regional levels and
controlled from Colorado.26
Both Dobson's Community Impact Committees and the Promise Keepers cells
are potential Trojan horses within churches and denominations, creating
conflicting loyalties and lines of authority. Leaders of Promise Keepers, in
particular, comes out of a movement that sees denominations as inhibiting
evangelism and revivalism. Indicative of this is its use of Strang
Communications to publish New Man magazine. Strang's Charisma magazine is
contemptuous of traditional denominations. The senior editor of Strang's New
Ministries magazine, Jack Hayford, is also on the board of Promise Keepers.
Promise Keepers has scheduled more than a dozen rallies for purity, fidelity
and possibly social and political dominion for 1995. Promise Keepers had
planned for over a year to draw one million men to a march in Washington,
D.C. just prior to the November 1996 elections. Now postponed, the plans were
evidently mod- eled after the Christian Right rallies called Washington for
Jesus which had similar backing and were held during the presidential
elections in 1980 and 1988.27
Considering the high-level backing by the leadership of the Christian
Right, and the anti-democratic views of Promise Keepers' leaders, this
movement ought not be underestimated.
* Author Russ Bellant is well known in progressive circles as a major
resource on the Radical Right. Two of his books, THE COORS CONNECTION and THE
RELIGIOUS RIGHT, are staples in the Ground Zero News Reference Library and we
have worn out several copies of each.
**This article, as well as the article on Operation Rescue on P. 5 is taken
from Front Lines Research, Vol. 1, Number 5, May, 1995 Issue. FLR is a
publication of the Public Policy Institute, a project of Planned Parenthood
Federation of America. Subscriptions are $35 per year ($18 low income),
delivered by First Class Mail. Checks should be made to PPFA/Public Policy
Institute., and should be sent with your request to FLR, 14th Floor, 810 7th
Avenue, New York, New York 10019.
----- End of Forwarded message -----
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 21:17:16 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
[B[B>
> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss
> "The Code of the Net"
>Snared in proselike flackjacket fashionwear, pockets of
reverberating syllables
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:26:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950808082301.25022C-100000@uhunix4.its.Hawaii.Edu>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > > >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > > >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> > > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> > who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
the distal nude and the proximal guano but you and I were about to
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:30:50 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga2?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950808082814.25022D-100000@uhunix4.its.Hawaii.Edu>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> >
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > Power to the spider, virtuous in act if not intent
> > > Sight over sound for "justice," O cubes of Cuba! Where
> > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > > Belief. A mirage effect, art, made to waver in
> > > a modicum of chocolate milk. Not too late for
> > > the phalarope, anodyne, cynesure, palindrome or rapturous whatnots
> > > doused in chemicals resembling chemlab outputs straining to be
> > > loons in a lake one can see through, diving between sunrises
> > > with a modicum of surprise, as in "Mr. Chimaera, please report to the
> > barnacle ormorderately or isn't it proper to sandwich
our time with the ice people and decide later about the opheliacs
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:37:25 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950808083953.25022F-100000@uhunix4.its.Hawaii.Edu>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >> >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >> >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >> >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >> >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > >> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> > >> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango-
izing of experience but landscape generosity and wetware chastity
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:43:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: eR 1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950808084042.25022G-100000@uhunix4.its.Hawaii.Edu>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
> > >On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > >> >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> > >> >> morning
> > >> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> > >> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> > >> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> > cleanly
> > >> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
> > first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and untuned
> > by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:56:15 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: rengafication
First
the
list,
then the
world
VIRUSALERT.
Ryan Knighton wrote
>Oh mY, everything is now subject to rengafication!
>Identity crises abound.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:39:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
On Aug 8 Burt Kimmelman wrote
....
AGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVEN AS i WRITE MORE RENGAS ARE PORING IN!
(help)
Dateline. Washington EFF 9/1/95 1500EST
Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City
a cure to the renbga virus was found, saving millions of users
worldwide . The source was discovered and it can be removed!
Contact LTrotsky@mexico.com for a visusrenag remover - 77 Mexican dollars
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 01:22:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Colleen Lookingbill <Zorlook@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Canessa is in S.F.
Sorry to the list - Canessa Park is in San Francisco. The address is 708
Montgomery Street, and the phone # for more info is 415-553-7798.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:19:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: more crazies (fwd)
> speaking of gender, more to be scared by... Gab.
etc.
oy.
m
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:03:23 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:26:11 -0400,
Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> wrote:
>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> >
>> > > >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > > >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > > >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > > >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > > >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > > >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > > >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > > >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > > >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > > >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > > >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > > >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > > >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > > >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> > > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>> > > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> > who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
> the distal nude and the proximal guano but you and I were about to
> tango in a thunderstorm, lightning be damned, forget my skin, ask
>
charles alexander [===========^^============]
[ <> ]
chax press [ maybe a <> pages ]
[ time <> letters ]
phone & fax: 612-721-6063 [ upon <> frames ]
[ once <> motion ]
e-mail: mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu [ <> ]
[===========vv============]
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:49:20 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
In-Reply-To: <950808150112_50629982@aol.com>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> On Aug 8 G Welford wrote:
>
> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 17:40:57 BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "I.LIGHTMAN" <I.Lightman@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Baudelaire
Here, as promised, are some versions of the same Baudelaire poem from
the book, _Spleen_, by Nicholas Moore, reprinted, Menard Press, 1990,
available from Peter Riley Books, 27 Sturton Street, Cambridge CB1 1QQ,
United Kingdom;
SPLEEN
Je suis comme le roi d'un pays pluvieux,
Riche, mais impuissant, jeune et pourtant tres-vieux,
Qui, de ses precepteurs meprisant les courbettes,
S'ennuie avec ses chiens comme avec d'autres betes.
Rien ne peut l'egayer, ni gibier, ni faucon,
Ni son peuple mourant en face du balcon.
Du bouffon favori la grotesque ballade
Ne distrait plus le front de ce cruel malade;
Son lit fleurdelise se transforme en tombeau,
Et les dames d'atour, pour qui tout prince est beau,
Ne savent plus trouver d'impudique toilette
Pour tirer un souris de ce jeune squelette.
Le savant qui lui fait de l'or n'a jamais pu
De son etre extirper l'element corrumpu,
Et dans ces bains de sang qui des Romains nous viennent,
Et donc sur leurs vieux jours les puissants se souviennent,
Il n'a su rechauffer ce cadavre hebete
Ou coule lieu de sang l'eau verte du Lethe.
LE ROY DELYCIEUX DE L'ICI
I am like the T.S. Eliot of new wastelands;
Fertile, but powerless; young, but with tied hands;
Despising pettiness in those who teach me.
Bored with this rat race, poodle-love can't reach me,
Pussies don't make me feel good, nor dumb birds;
Nor dying poets begging *me* for words.
Bob Dylan's witty, but grotesque new songs
Can't tear me from the sick thought of *my* wrongs....
Nicholas Moore
A BAD DREAM RECURRING
As the Ruler of a storm-flooded country, I
Am rich, but powerless, young, but terribly
Ancient, and all my ministers' sycophancy
Doesn't make up for my boredom with the beastly...
...Nor would pogroms - however Stalinesque -
Raise any new life that's not quite grotesque
Or warm the cockles of a skeletal
Heart - pumping water green as fear, and lethal.
"Ion Lomas-Roche"
DREAMSCAPE
I stand, a too-old king
In a too rainy country, curbed
By distrust of too-plausible advisers.
Dogs,
Other faceless animals,
Small birds, hawks
- but I'm bored;
A whole race fails beneath my balcony.
The Beatles, dressed like grubs,
Sing mournfully "Hey, Jude",
But I - I cannot laugh.
I suffer from the same malaise myself.
My bed is a mound of flowers,
Lily, iris;
The flower girls offer me charms
And suddenly strip -
Beautiful, clean young bodies.
But this mound is a tomb
For this dried-up young mummy.
The gesturing girls can't raise a smile
From the dead.
"Nichos Omolares"
RAT-KING
....Not all the lynchings of the Ku Klux Klan
Can make me sure I am the man I am.
I seem a marionette strung up on death,
While straggling Lethe greenly twists beneath.
"H.R. Fixon-Boumphrey"
PEPE-LE-MOKO AU MONTRACHET-LE-JARDIN
Beau Roi of Serpentines in thunderous mish-mash!
Golden glissadings, O empty effendi of air,
The tutors' fulgurations, fine flickerings of frenzy, leave
You like a Dodo in the abattoirs....
"P.L. Moko-Destaches"
etc
etc etc
etc etc etc
Sorry I've only time to excerpt from these translations, mostly from the
start or end....
Here is my own translation of Baudelaire's Madrigal Triste:
THE ORCHESTRATION OF UNHAPPINESS
- after Baudelaire
You're disciplined. So?
Get lusty, get lost. Desperation
is flow,
banked soil sails where the rivers go.
Get acceleration.
Lord! When emotion rejoices,
dissolving the edifice above it,
and your heart is where the horror of choice
is, when you're alive in the present, to hear the shut-out voices
of yesterday threaten full-throttle - God, how I love it!
I *love* it, when your eyes brim
and babble with weeping;
when, spurning my prim
reflex to soothe you, you let yourself swim
in the depth of it, and go out of my keeping.
I drink,
o deep, delicious, voluptuous one,
from this spring at the brink
of your body. I drink
as the knot is undone.
IRA LIGHTMAN
Anyone interested in the idea of Baudelaire's *style* get into Yeats?
I've just been reading Sarah Law's Baudelaire-style poem, Savage Nights,
in the Cambridge magazine, _Involution ii_, and it reminded me of Yeats.
Anyway, hope this offers some starting points for Baudelaire talk...
Ira
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:47:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lindz Williamson <lmichell@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: A cure will be here soon my friends
In-Reply-To: <199508090539.WAA06805@well.com>
> Dateline. Washington EFF 9/1/95 1500EST
>
> Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City
> a cure to the renbga virus was found, saving millions of users
> worldwide . The source was discovered and it can be removed!
> Contact LTrotsky@mexico.com for a visusrenag remover - 77 Mexican dollars
>
Oh thank God, I'm heading off to Mexico after Christmas. I should be
able to get it in duty free by using the Canadian Council Against Renga
as a cover and claiming the cure as a cultural aid. If anyone wants
I'll smuggle some of this miracle cure into Canada amd then sell it in US
markets. I should make a killing off the exchange rates. I'm taking
orders starting immediately. Finally a way to easy our suffering, if only
I could leave now.
Lindz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:51:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
>[B[B>
>> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>> > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
>> > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
>> > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
>> > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
>> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss
>> "The Code of the Net"
>>Snared in proselike flackjacket fashionwear, pockets of
> reverberating syllables
slammed into prose banks wheezing at the cattle calls that strangle
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:53:43 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
On Aug 9 Thomas Bell wrote
>Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City
>a cure to the renbga virus was found, saving millions of users
>worldwide . The source was discovered and it can be removed!
>Contact LTrotsky@mexico.com for a visusrenag remover - 77 Mexican dollars
I don't want to sound like the pc-police here, but does this sound a bit
racist to anyone else?
Dodie Bellamy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:52:54 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > >> >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > >> >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > >> >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > >> >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > >> >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > >> >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > >> >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > >> >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > >> >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > >> >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > >> >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > >> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > >> >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > >> >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> > >> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>> > >> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
>> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango-
> izing of experience but landscape generosity and wetware chastity
that meshes the way cloth blooms in our wind sock
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:54:18 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: eR 1
>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>>
>> > >On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> > >> >> > >
>> > >> >> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > >> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > >> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > >> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > >> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > >> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > >> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > >> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > >> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > >> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > >> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > >> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > >> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > >> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > >> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
>> > >> >> morning
>> > >> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>> > >> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
>> > >> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
>> > cleanly
>> > >> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
>> > first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and untuned
>> > by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
> but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
lights behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for francs
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:04:20 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: JG
I've just heard that Jerry Garcia died this morning. Thought some folks out
there might like to know.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 12:54:13 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga3? II
> [B[B>
> > > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> > > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> > > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> > > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> > > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> > My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss
> > "The Code of the Net"
> >Emerging just as prose dialogue declines within the
ascendant moment of radical political conserva-
tivisms: ironic poetic thesis, useful for
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:55:38 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
Maria: Kevin Mitchell's an overweight, overpaid, injury-prone, underachieving,
peripatetic outfielder with the Reds, the Giants, a Japanese team, and God
knows who else before or since. Sorta like Ron.
Ryan: Some of Michael Harper's books that I have here are History is Your Own
Heartbeat (1971), Nightmare Begins Responsibility (1975), Images of Kin
(1977), Healing Song for the Inner Ear (1985). I don't know what he's done
since the mid-eighties. Like many other writers, he has a number of Coltrane
poems, and perhaps his best-known (or most anthologized) poem is "Dear John,
Dear Coltrane. " I taught this at the U of Mississippi years back and played
"A Love Supreme," off which the poem riffs, but the effort met with a
resounding "Huh?" (Actually, Trane met with the resounding "Huh?" and Harper
merely with a lower-case "huh.") Would like to know what you thought of his
reading, since I've never heard him. We've thought of him at various times as
a possible reader at the Twentieth-Century Lit. Conference here.
I'm trying to think of a crack about derengalation to end this with, but
can't.
Oh well.
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:02:43 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
In-Reply-To: <92229.mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:26:11 -0400,
> Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > > >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > > >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > > >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > > >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > > >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > > >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > > >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > > >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > > >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > > >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > > >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > > >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> > > >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> > > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> >> > > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> >> > who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
> > the distal nude and the proximal guano but you and I were about to
> > tango in a thunderstorm, lightning be damned, forget my skin, ask
not the neutered angel pushing romantic coating, but ask
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:07:06 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Twentieth-Century Literature Conference
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
Dear List:
Since I've mentioned the Conference in passing in another post today, might as
well do my annual schtick. So:
The call for papers and for poetry and fiction submissions is now out for the
U. of Louisville's annual Twentieth-Century Literature Conference, to be held
Feb. 22-24, 1996. Deadline for submissions is an Oct. 2 postmark. Keynote
speakers are not yet set, but I'll post that information when they are. For
further info., including a hard copy of the conference flier with lots more
detail, e-mail the Conference director, Harriette Seiler, at
hmseil01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu.
A lot of people on the Poetics list came last year, which meant that *I* had a
good time, and I think they did too.
PS: Harriette Seiler's away for a week or two, so don't be concerned if you
don't get a response right away.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:56:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga3? II
In-Reply-To: <9508091854.AA48022@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> > >Emerging just as prose dialogue declines within the
> ascendant moment of radical political conserva-
> tivisms: ironic poetic thesis, useful for
Thinking about Jerry Garcia, thinking about little murders,
thinking about the good die young, thinking about Janis Joplin,
thinking about nothing left to lose, thinking about Abbie Hoffman,
thinking about insurrection, thinking about flowers,
thinking about flowers, thinking about insurrection
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:20:31 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Dear Alan, Dear Harper
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95080914553262@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> from "Alan Golding"
at Aug 9, 95 02:55:38 pm
Alan,
Thanks for the titles. I heard harper read "Nightmare Begins
Responsibility" and I think three or four more poems in the
"Language of Life" series currently running on PBS this side of
the medicine line. I think slick is the best word. He
was reading with a jazz trio, very beat, but reminded me in
his language and style of Amiri Baraka, AM/TRAK and thereabouts.
What amazed me is his sense of performance vs. reading, demonstrated
best by his interpretations of some inner-city poets' works. After him
came Adrienne Rich and it was night and day, for me. Rhythm seems
to be an extension of content and in some cases content itself.
Oh yeah, renga.
Ryan Knighton
Unprofessor of Literature
Frozen Frazer University
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:22:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: JG others and us
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95080915055079@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Only the Good Die Young
You know where this is going but I don't. Anyone who went through the 60s,
rubbed themselves raw in the middle to late 60s and early 70s, against the
right in America that's now breathing down our necks with the fury of
missed and regulated life - anyone who went through them caught in the war
of the peace - has been traumatized, amputated, has learned to bury well,
never say "far out" again because it's all reigned in, has learned to walk
the walk, talk the talk -
Has learned to bury early on Janis and Jimmy and John and John and Al and
Robert and Abbie and Martin and Marvin and those who burned bright for a
second, just when we were beginning to learn to fuck them, open our
bodies, insurrections of the flesh -
How did Jerry survive so long, get away with it, these little murders
splitting out bodies open - we weren't taught that life was one long
series of deaths, only that death was there on the horizon, present yes,
but not these little murders -
We're fucking survivors, the Net's a commune, the last Free Press, we're
on the edge, waiting for insurrection, of the other, of ourselves, splin-
tered on the bones of a country we barely recognize -
Cause otherwise we're all sleep for the slaughter - little murders on down
the line - take us -
'She wander'd in the lad of clouds thro' valleys dark, list'ning
Dolours & lamentations; waiting oft beside a dewy grave
She stood in silence, list'ning to the voices of the ground,
Till to her own grave plot she came, & there she sat down,
And heard this voice of sorrow breathed from the hollow pit.
'"Why cannot the Ear be closed to its own destruction?
"Or the glist'ning Eye to the poison of a smile?
"Why are Eyelids stor'd with arrows ready drawn,
"Where a thousand fighting men in ambush lie?
"Or an Eye of gifts & graces show'ring fruits & coined gold?
"Why a Tongue impress'd with honey from every wind?
"Why an Ear, a whirlpool fierce to draw creations in?
"Why a Nostril wide inhaling terror, trembling, & affright?
"Why a tender curb upon the youthful burning boy?
"Why a little curtain of flesh on the bed of our desire?"'
(Blake, The Book of Thel)
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:49:12 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: JG
In message <950809130419_51266301@aol.com> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> I've just heard that Jerry Garcia died this morning. Thought some folks out
> there might like to know.
> --Rod
yes, i'm stunned and, strange to say, can't find any twin cities radio stations
playing all day Dead. my albums were stolen years ago.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:59:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dear Alan, Dear Harper
In message <199508092020.NAA13739@fraser.sfu.ca> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> Alan,
>
> Thanks for the titles. I heard harper read "Nightmare Begins
> Responsibility" and I think three or four more poems in the
> "Language of Life" series currently running on PBS this side of
> the medicine line. I think slick is the best word. He
> was reading with a jazz trio, very beat, but reminded me in
> his language and style of Amiri Baraka, AM/TRAK and thereabouts.
> What amazed me is his sense of performance vs. reading, demonstrated
> best by his interpretations of some inner-city poets' works. After him
> came Adrienne Rich and it was night and day, for me. Rhythm seems
> to be an extension of content and in some cases content itself.
>
> Oh yeah, renga.
>
> Ryan Knighton
> Unprofessor of Literature
> Frozen Frazer University
dear alan, dear ryan,
i heard harper read a few years ago and his renditions of etheridge knight's
poetry were much more powerful than his readings of his own material. he read
some really boring recent stuff of his, stuff like, for richard wilbur on his
xxth birthday, "i gave you a bottle of scotch," etc. Only on request did he
read the older, far more powerful "Dear John" and the one for Bessie Smith?
"this is our last affair"(?) gorgeous. but what he's doing now...uninspired,
as far as i could tell. i don't know if he was doing that on purpose because of
the incredible conservatism of my department, who hosted the reading (helP! get
me out of here!) or if that's how it is these days in general. also he recently
edited a book of AF-Am poetry called Every Shut Eye Ain't Asleep, in which he
omitted Bob Kaufman and others with an eye toward "quality." oh well. he has
been very good to some younger writers, including novelist Gayl Jones, who's a
knockout.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:03:23 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: coupla job postings!!!!
please, everyone, spread the word so we can have some hip applicants for this
position --typical of my institution to allow two weeks for a search! apply,
all ye brit poetry folks and post colonialists, and/or forward to appropriate
lists as you see fit!--md
Two Full-Time Temporary Teaching Positions
1995-96
Department of English
University of Minnesota
The Department of English at the University of Minnesota has openings for two
positions for 1995-96. Both positions are one year (September 16, 1995 through
June 15, 1996), 100 percent time, non-tenured, temporary appointments. Minimum
qualifications for these positions are a Ph.D. in English or related field, some
teaching experience, and expertise in the fields as specified below. Preferred
candidates will also have demonstrated excellence in teaching and research and
have a record of publication. The teaching load will be six courses (two each
quarter) which will include undergraduate, upper-division undergraduate, and
graduate level courses. Depending on credentials, appointments will be made at
the Lecturer, Visiting Assistant Professor or Visiting Associate Professor
level. Salary is $35,000 and non-negotiable for both positions.
Position 1: Twentieth-Century British Literature
Candidates must have specific expertise in Twentieth-century British poetry and
a broad familiarity with Twentieth-century British literature generally.
Position 2: Specialist in Postcolonial literatures in English and Postcolonial
Theory. Candidates must have expertise in a specific area of postcolonial
literature in English as well as broad familiarity with postcolonial literatures
and theory generally.
Applicants should send letter of application, curriculum vitae, and three
letters of reference to:
Professor Marty Roth
Department of English
University of Minnesota
207 Lind Hall
207 Church Street SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0134.
Applications must be postmarked by August 23, 1995.
***************
The University of Minnesota is committed to the policy that all persons shall
have equal access to its programs, facilities, and employment without regard to
race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, age, marital status,
disability, public assistance status, veteran status, or sexual orientation.
*********************
Laureen Larson
Principal Secretary
Department of English
207 Lind
207 Church Street SE
Minneapolis MN 55455
612-625-6837
612-624-8228 FAX
*********************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:06:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Twentieth-Century Literature Conference
alan g writes:
>
> Dear List:
>
> Since I've mentioned the Conference in passing in another post today, might
> as
> well do my annual schtick. So:
>
>
> A lot of people on the Poetics list came last year, which meant that *I* had
> a good time, and I think they did too.
>
yes indeed, i can attest to that. it was my first time at the conference, and
found people gracious, kind, friendly and fun to hang out with. it has been one
of my most "meaningful" conferences.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:10:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga3? II
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.950809155525.26061C-100000@panix3.panix.com> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>
> > > >Emerging just as prose dialogue declines within the
> > ascendant moment of radical political conserva-
> > tivisms: ironic poetic thesis, useful for
> Thinking about Jerry Garcia, thinking about little murders,
> thinking about the good die young, thinking about Janis Joplin,
> thinking about nothing left to lose, thinking about Abbie Hoffman,
> thinking about insurrection, thinking about flowers,
> thinking about flowers, thinking about insurrection
and Jimi the Gem lancing his rare guitar-artiste heart for us,
thinking about Mumia still to come, and George jackson who's
smile was so loving it stopped a bullet before his time
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 17:49:23 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
In-Reply-To: <199508091651.JAA24278@bob.indirect.com>
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >[B[B>
> >> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> >> > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> >> > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> >> > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> >> > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> >> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss
> >> "The Code of the Net". Snared in proselike flackjacket fashionwear,
pockets of reverberating syllables slammed into prose banks
wheezing at the cattle calls that strangle the big boys who killed
the stony bird who cried "see you at the next aurora of autumn!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:00:14 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
In-Reply-To: <v01520d01ac4e27cc7b37@[140.174.229.162]>
it is racist in that it presumes that mexicans lack imagination
since the only thing that can stop renga is precisely the lack of
imagination. i am partly mexican and, as the famous corrido says, "que
siga la renga!"
Dodie Bellamy wrote
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Kevin Killian wrote:
> On Aug 9 Thomas Bell wrote
>
> >Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City
> >a cure to the renbga virus was found, saving millions of users
> >worldwide . The source was discovered and it can be removed!
> >Contact LTrotsky@mexico.com for a visusrenag remover - 77 Mexican dollars
>
> I don't want to sound like the pc-police here, but does this sound a bit
> racist to anyone else?
>
> Dodie Bellamy
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:21:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:26:11 -0400,
>Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>>> > > >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>>> > > >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>>> > > >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>>> > > >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>>> > > >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>>> > > >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>>> > > >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>>> > > >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>>> > > >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>>> > > >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>>> > > >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>>> > > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>>> > > >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>>> > > >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>>> > > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>>> > > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>>> > who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
>> the distal nude and the proximal guano but you and I were about to
>> tango in a thunderstorm, lightning be damned, forget my skin, ask
pockmarks questions denuded of interrogation (points west
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:23:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:26:11 -0400,
>> Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > >> > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > > >> > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > > >> > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > > >> > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > > >> > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > > >> > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> > > >> > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> > > >> > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> > > >> > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> > > >> > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> > > >> > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> > > >> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >> > > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >> > > >> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >> > > >> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> >> > > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspectio
>n
>> >> > > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> >> > who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
>> > the distal nude and the proximal guano but you and I were about to
>> > tango in a thunderstorm, lightning be damned, forget my skin, ask
> not the neutered angel pushing romantic coating, but ask
confidence to tame itself, us, the treefrogs to the tune of watered scones
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:22:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: eR 1
In-Reply-To: <199508091654.JAA24342@bob.indirect.com>
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >>
> >> > >On Sat, 5 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >> On Aug 3 Hank Lazer wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> On Aug 3 Marissa Januzzi wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > > On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> > >> >> > >
> >> > >> >> > > > >adding to Ron Silliman's addition --
> >> > >> >> > > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > >> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > >> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > >> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > >> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > >> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > >> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > >> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > >> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > >> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > >> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > >> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > >> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > >> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> > >> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> >> > >> >> morning
> >> > >> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> >> > >> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> >> > >> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> >> > cleanly
> >> > >> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
> >> > first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and untuned
> >> > by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
> > but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
> lights behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for francs
by the `Defense de glouglouter' sign. Me, I'm just in bracket mode and
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:26:51 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
>On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> On Aug 8 G Welford wrote:
>>
>> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>> > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
>> > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
>> > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
>> > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
>> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
> and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
brew safely to the lips pornographied like pressure in the tongue
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:28:08 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: jesus christ was born today
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
the distal nude and the proximal guano but you and I were about to
tango in a thunderstorm, lightning be damned, forget my skin, ask
me and I'll walk quietly up fifth to the mid manhattan branch
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:36:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: fear of god
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
when the attorney general came, selah
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:37:38 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 1
> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
the french language
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 12:45:50 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Ann Arbor City Council Passes Resolution on Mumia! (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 05:18:16 -1000
From: Paul Steven Lefrak <plefr@umich.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <can-rw@pencil.cs.missouri.edu>
Subject: Ann Arbor City Council Passes Resolution on Mumia!
For immediate release:
ANN ARBOR CITY COUNCIL PASSES RESOLUTION CALLING FOR NEW TRIAL FOR MUMIA
ABU-JAMAL
Aug.7--The City Council of Ann Arbor, MI tonight passed a resolution
calling for a new trial for Pennsylvania political prisoner Mumia
Abu-Jamal and that his death sentence be set aside. Ann Arbor now joins
Detroit, Madison, and Cambridge, MA as the fourth American city council
to pass such a resolution. The resolution was passed by an 8-1 majority
and the effort to win the resolution was initiated by members of the Ann
Arbor-based Emergency Committee Against the Racist Execution
(Emergency CARE: 313-913-9538 / plefr@umich.edu).
It is significant to note that the resolution was passed despite the fact
that earlier in the day Mumia Abu-Jamal had been granted a stay of
execution. There was some discussion on the Council about whether the
resolution was still necessary given the stay. Emergency CARE members
addressed the Council and pointed out that the death sentence still loomed over
Mumia's head, that he was still in Judge Sabo's court, and that he had not
been granted a new trial. They pointed out that it was getting similar
resolutions passed in other cities--a direct result of a mass worldwide
movement--that helped create the political climate in which today's court
victory could even be won.
Earlier, Emergency CARE members joined forces with approximately forty
members of the Coalition for Community Unity (CCU) who were picketing
prior to the meeting. CCU initiated its picket in response to
the near-unanimous vote of City Council last week in which the Council
capitulated to police pressure and backed down from demanding an immediate
return of the blood and DNA samples obtained from 160 area Black men during
the highly racist police "investigation" of the now-solved serial rape case.
No action was taken on that issue at the Monday night City Council meeting.
Emergency CARE members are currently organizing for the August 12
national protest in Philadelphia demanding a new trial for Mumia
Abu-Jamal, a stop to the execution, an end to the racist death penalty,
and a halt to the agenda of the right-wing. The victory won today only
hardened members' determination to continue the fight. We will not be
placated!
FREE MUMIA ABU-JAMAL AND ALL OTHER LIBERATION FIGHTERS!
ABOLISH THE RACIST DEATH PENALTY!
Paul Lefrak
313-913-9538
plefr@umich.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 11:33:55 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: JG others and us
to Alam Sondheim (& Survivors - of the 60s/70s all) is it still cool
to say Right On?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 00:35:30 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: desire / and the 39 steps
ornamental poppy petals voiced out of a pitted steel catering bowl from a
folly functive balcony plaster themselves around the drying lips of gaping
mouths - amazed. these kids like tape hiss most. fadding into one last
peal of moss.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:53:12 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Anmarie Trimble <writeme@E-CAFE.COM>
Subject: Re: Dear Alan, Dear Harper
>Alan,
>
>Thanks for the titles. I heard harper read "Nightmare Begins
>Responsibility" and I think three or four more poems in the
>"Language of Life" series currently running on PBS this side of
>the medicine line. I think slick is the best word. He
>was reading with a jazz trio, very beat, but reminded me in
>his language and style of Amiri Baraka, AM/TRAK and thereabouts.
>What amazed me is his sense of performance vs. reading, demonstrated
>best by his interpretations of some inner-city poets' works. After him
>came Adrienne Rich and it was night and day, for me. Rhythm seems
>to be an extension of content and in some cases content itself.
>
>Oh yeah, renga.
>
>Ryan Knighton
>Unprofessor of Literature
>Frozen Frazer University
Dear everybody -
I didn't catch the name of the poet included in the second part of "the
language of life." She read "night vision." Of course, I could do a
search by title, but I'd rather display my ignorance before oodles of
complete strangers.
I'd say Cruz was the heat of the day, Harper the beat of the night, and
Rich wore the deceptive calm of the indoors.
-Anmarie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 13:51:57 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: ringing renga
Comments: To: MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
on Wed, 9 August Jorge Guitart wrote
Dodie Bellamy wrote
Thomas Bell wrote
Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City a cure
I don't want to sound like the P-C police here but
it is racist in that it presumes that mexicans lack imagination
in the book were dreams and in the dreams were books
and you won't get rid of us that easily
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 23:24:22 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Chris Stroffolino
If this is yours, please notify sender of correct address.
If this is not yours, please use 'reply' to notify me.
************************************************************************
* W A R N I N G *
* *
* This item has been FORWARDED to you from the *
* system DEAD-LETTER file/folder by the postmaster *
* DO NOT use the 'reply' function ( reply will go to postmaster ) *
* Instead, please do a 'send' to the originator of the item. *
* thanks - postmaster *
************************************************************************
From: IN%"postmaster@ALBNYVMS.BITNET" "PMDF Mail Server" 9-AUG-1995
Your message could not be delivered to:
--> Error description:
Error-For: LSO796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
Error-Code: 3
Error-Text: unknown or illegal user: LSO796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 00:23:09 -0800
To: LSO796%ALBNYVMS.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: blairsea@panix.com (Blair Seagram)
Subject: Backchannel bouncing
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:46:59 -0400
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Studio space
Blair--I tried to contact you backchannnel about some longshot
possibilities--friends in Brooklyn, etc--but it bounced back to
me....backchannel me, Chris
Dear Chris:
I apologize for such a tardy response. I came acrosss your message tonight
while looking on past posts for meanings of renga (something I am still
unclear on). I must have missed your post first time around. Not paying
enough attention I guess.
I'm not sure what happened via backchannel but try again please, if only to
test the address blairsea@panix.com. If you know of any studios, I'd be
interested to hear about them.
Thanks for your trouble. Best wishes.
Blair
By the way where are you located geographically?
Dear Chris:
That was then and this is now. Apparently I got bounced last night, not
only from your address, but from the poetics list. So here we go on a
second round. By the way, your address above
(LSO796%ALBNYVMS.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU) is not the one I used, not as far
as I know. I believe I copied your address verbatim
(LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET). In any event, I am now more interested in seeing
if this message gets through, than I am in finding out about studio spaces.
I wonder if I was bounced from the poetics list because I only used a
subject heading and left the body empty?
Please contact me Chris, if necessary use the poetics list and make the
subject my name. That way, I have a better chance of catching your post,
since I get my poetics mail bundled.
Best wishes
Blair
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 23:28:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: jesus christ was born today
In-Reply-To: <950809182806_51475306@aol.com>
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Jordan Davis. wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> who do you think is at the end of this shaft if it isn't
> the distal nude and the proximal guano but you and I were about to
> tango in a thunderstorm, lightning be damned, forget my skin, ask
> me and I'll walk quietly up fifth to the mid manhattan branch
and check my balance for the abyss is open late
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 23:31:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: fear of god
In-Reply-To: <950809183412_51476756@aol.com>
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Jordan Davis. wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:57:23 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: eR 1
Comments: To: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
On 8 Aug 95 at 23:43, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> > > >> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > >> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > >> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > >> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > > >> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > > >> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> > > >> >> morning
> > > >> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> > > >> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> > > >> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> > > cleanly
> > > >> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
> > > first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and untuned
> > > by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
> but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
leases, the hare that bit him, the cat in the box (perhaps)
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:57:34 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: ringing renga
Comments: To: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
On 9 Aug 95 at 9:53, Kevin Killian wrote:
> On Aug 9 Thomas Bell wrote
>
> >Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City
> >a cure to the renbga virus was found, saving millions of users
> >worldwide . The source was discovered and it can be removed!
> >Contact LTrotsky@mexico.com for a visusrenag remover - 77 Mexican dollars
>
> I don't want to sound like the pc-police here, but does this sound a bit
> racist to anyone else?
Racist?
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:35:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95080914553262@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> from "Alan Golding"
at Aug 9, 95 02:55:38 pm
Mitchell also played third base (sort of) for the Mets, and a year, I
think in San Diego, where he grew up, and where his brother is bad
news.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 02:21:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: In the books were dreams
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspection
prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 02:33:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Long Strange Trip
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
morning
from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
cleanly
fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when t
he
first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and
untun
ed
by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
lihts behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for
francs
by the `Defense de glouglouter' sign. Me, I'm just in bracket mode and
making a racket, the rocket high in the night sky explodes, unloading
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 02:41:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
Kevin Mitchell was the Most Valuable Player for the National League in
1989, I believe, the year he hit 47 homers to lead the league. He once
caught a line drive in left field with his bare hand. But he did grow
up in the San Diego ghetto and still hangs with his childhood buddies.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 00:28:13 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: job for writer w/Haitian Radio (fwd)
This was attached to an e-mail from a friend in the Carribean:
____________________________________________
Wanted: Haitian Radio Scriptwriter
Who has experience writing radio drama and has worked in primary
education. Good ear for writing drama and a sense of how to write for
children is more important than actual radio scriptwriting experience.
Must speak and write English, French and/or Creole, and be willing to
travel to Washington, DC and Haiti.
Fax resume and brief writing sample to: Betsy Goldstein at (202)
223-4059.
................................................
E. Winters
ewinters@netcom.com
http://www.wordsimages.com/ewinters/ewinters.htm
37.53 N 122.17 W
................................................
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:02:55 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
>>> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>>> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>>> > > > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>>> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>>> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>>> >>> The caravan of windows to what they flee
>>> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>>> > > > > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>>> > > > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>>> > > > >>> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>>> > > >> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>>> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>>> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>>> > > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>>> > > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>>> > > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
>>> > > prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
>>> > > with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
>>> > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
>>> > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
>>> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
>> and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> brew safely to the lips pornographied like pressure in the tongue
detuned) to set sail from these balmy hunks of land and take a break
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 06:36:01 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: In the books were dreams
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspection
prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
charles alexander [===========^^============]
[ <> ]
chax press [ maybe a <> pages ]
[ time <> letters ]
phone & fax: 612-721-6063 [ upon <> frames ]
[ once <> motion ]
e-mail: mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu [ <> ]
[===========vv============]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 06:41:11 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Long Strange Trip
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
morning
from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
cleanly
fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when t
he
first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and
untun
ed
by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
lihts behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for
francs
by the `Defense de glouglouter' sign. Me, I'm just in bracket mode and
making a racket, the rocket high in the night sky explodes, unloading
spackle not stars, shy fires made present in a dustful system
charles alexander [===========^^============]
[ <> ]
chax press [ maybe a <> pages ]
[ time <> letters ]
phone & fax: 612-721-6063 [ upon <> frames ]
[ once <> motion ]
e-mail: mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu [ <> ]
[===========vv============]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:20:34 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: In the books were dreams
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspection
prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:24:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Long Strange Trip
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
morning
from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
cleanly
fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when t
he
first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and
untun
ed
by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
lihts behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for
francs
by the `Defense de glouglouter' sign. Me, I'm just in bracket mode and
making a racket, the rocket high in the night sky explodes, unloading
spackle not stars, shy fires made present in a dustful system
in which I lunch with Bernardine Dohrn. Must we wake dreamers if
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:19:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Pangborn <V072GDXG@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: JG others and us
Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ> asks:
>
>to Alam Sondheim (& Survivors - of the 60s/70s all) is it still cool
>to say Right On?
>
No. Say that and I promise I'll punch your lights out.
(Oops-- had my fingers crossed just then. Peace, mon. Seriously
one very seldom hears that phrase uttered without a tinge of ironic
self-citation, as though in scary-sarcastic quotation marks. Same with
"politically correct." Even Marvin Gaye seems to be laughing at himself
--or some *autre*--when he sprechsings it in "What's Goin' On." We'd say,
"Right arm, man." Polar opposite of "right face" or "dress right, dress,"
so it felt at the time. Nowadays I reach back a bit farther and,
following Creeley, just say "dig.")
--JimP
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:43:29 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Pangborn <V072GDXG@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: ringing renga
Jorge writes,
>it is racist in that it presumes that mexicans lack imagination
>since the only thing that can stop renga is precisely the lack of
>imagination. i am partly mexican and, as the famous corrido says, "que
>siga la renga!"
Aha: I thought Dodie might have meant that the offending post portrayed Russian
caucasians like Trotsky as congenitally unable to keep from exploiting needy
third-world lab technicians, setting up sweatshops despite his professedly
communist political stance. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
Personally, I view the Rengba virus as God's revenge on those who carped about
the Anti-Hegemony Project taking up too much list-space a while back.
You know,
the type of people who come down with it . . .
Dodie Bellamy wrote
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Kevin Killian wrote:
> On Aug 9 Thomas Bell wrote
>
> >Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City
> >a cure to the renbga virus was found, saving millions of users
> >worldwide . The source was discovered and it can be removed!
> >Contact LTrotsky@mexico.com for a visusrenag remover - 77 Mexican dollars
>
> I don't want to sound like the pc-police here, but does this sound a bit
> racist to anyone else?
>
> Dodie Bellamy
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:31:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
ron s writes:
> Kevin Mitchell was the Most Valuable Player for the National League in
> 1989, I believe, the year he hit 47 homers to lead the league. He once
> caught a line drive in left field with his bare hand. But he did grow
> up in the San Diego ghetto and still hangs with his childhood buddies.
this is strange and interesting. all the responses i've gotten to the q. who is
kevin mitchell have yielded that he is mediocre, most valuable player,
interesting, uninteresting, good bad etc. thanks!--md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 11:36:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: eR 1
Comments: To: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
In-Reply-To: <199508100357.WAA06601@zoom.bga.com>
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> On 8 Aug 95 at 23:43, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> > > > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > >> >> > > > >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > >> >> > > > >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > >> >> > > > >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > >> >> > > > >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > >> >> > > > >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > > >> >> > > > >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > > >> >> > > > >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > > >> >> > > > >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > > >> >> > > > >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > > >> >> > > > > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > > >> >> > > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > > >> >> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > > > >> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > > > >> >> ><< lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> > > > >> >> morning
> > > > >> >> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> > > > >> >> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> > > > >> >> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> > > > cleanly
> > > > >> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when the
> > > > first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and untuned
> > > > by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
> > but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
> leases, the hare that bit him, the cat in the box (perhaps)
the one that Hrodinger left here and I don't know if I am alive
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:36:55 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
pangborn writes:
> Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ> asks:
> >
> >to Alam Sondheim (& Survivors - of the 60s/70s all) is it still cool
> >to say Right On?
> >
>
> No. Say that and I promise I'll punch your lights out.
>
excuse me i say right on and groovy all the time. others impute an irony to my
using those phrases (assuming no one could say them "straight" anymore), but i'm
just saying it. saying it. saying it. come to mpls and i'll say it for you a
coupla times. or rather, since i'm going on sabbatical, come to cape cod (YAY!)
and i'll say it for you a coupla times.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 11:53:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Long Strange Trip II
In-Reply-To: <199508100933.CAA24600@ix5.ix.netcom.com>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> morning
> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> cleanly
> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when t
> he
> first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and
> untun
> ed
> by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
> but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
> lihts behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for
> francs
> by the `Defense de glouglouter' sign. Me, I'm just in bracket mode and
> making a racket, the rocket high in the night sky explodes, unloading
the sperm of light looking to connect with the egg of night, but if you
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 11:59:16 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga3?
In-Reply-To: <9508101155.aa29183@post.demon.co.uk>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, cris cheek wrote:
> >>> > > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >>> > > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >>> > > > > would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >>> > > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >>> > > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >>> >>> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >>> > > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >>> > > > > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >>> > > > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >>> > > > >>> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >>> > > >> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >>> > > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >>> > > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >>> > > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >>> > > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >>> > > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
> >>> > > prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> >>> > > with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> >>> > collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> >>> > outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> >>> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
> >> and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> > brew safely to the lips pornographied like pressure in the tongue
> detuned) to set sail from these balmy hunks of land and take a break
but bring back the head of elena garcia attached to her body, please
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:09:59 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: In the books were dreams
In-Reply-To: <38300.mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> (inspection
> prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
> with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
> and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> & Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
> of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
that that the `that' might live by the Lake of Innisprison
[===========^^============]
>
[ mebbe i'm <> i'm ]
> [ rahht <> wrong ]
> [ an' <> n' mebbe]
> [ mebbe <> i'm weak
> [===========vv============]
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:13:43 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Long Strange Trip
In-Reply-To: <199508101324.JAA19041@yorick.umd.edu>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Tom Mandel wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> morning
> from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
> wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
> of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> cleanly
> fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when t
> he
> first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and
> untun
> ed
> by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
> but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
> lihts behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for
> francs
> by the `Defense de glouglouter' sign. Me, I'm just in bracket mode and
> making a racket, the rocket high in the night sky explodes, unloading
> spackle not stars, shy fires made present in a dustful system
> in which I lunch with Bernardine Dohrn. Must we wake dreamers if
they are having a general good time with B.D.? And must we
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:17:57 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: desire / and the 39 steps
to leave: and hissing tape, his silence like the poppy without bloom, the garden (wholly his) unweeded, and the face,
no longer mine, gives back dry lips, but no amazement, for it's always thus. dickinson, of course: the moss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:21:40 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: In the books were dreams
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> (inspection
>prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
>with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
>collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
>outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
>My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
>and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
>& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
>of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
>and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from pastures
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:25:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Strange Trip
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>lunar dust, the misdirected modules returning to the
> morning
>from the books out of the dreams away from the lonesome
>wail of the glob that cradles in its claws The Anthology
>of retrospective prescience sanded down to mean the elbows
> cleanly
>fit to be you or the phantasm that space foreclosed when t
>he
>first sentence spilled from heaven wheat of some kind blistered and
>untun
>ed
>by the harpie of space here for add in whatever you choose or not
>but don't single out the dog waiting to happen and the free mildew
>lihts behind the cabbage, Pringles, and southerly winds exchanged for
>francs
> by the `Defense de glouglouter' sign. Me, I'm just in bracket mode and
>making a racket, the rocket high in the night sky explodes, unloading
>spackle not stars, shy fires made present in a dustful system
>in which I lunch with Bernardine Dohrn. Must we wake dreamers if
they consistently resist trance, favoring the transom as more tangible
dreamcatcher than
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:26:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
In-Reply-To: <01HTWKWYRID88WXK89@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
for the record, i don't think Tom Bell's message was racist. i was being
as facetious as he was. mexicans are not a race.
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Jim Pangborn wrote
> Jorge writes,
> >it is racist in that it presumes that mexicans lack imagination
> >since the only thing that can stop renga is precisely the lack of
> >imagination. i am partly mexican and, as the famous corrido says, "que
> >siga la renga!"
>
> Aha: I thought Dodie might have meant that the offending post portrayed Russian
> caucasians like Trotsky as congenitally unable to keep from exploiting needy
> third-world lab technicians, setting up sweatshops despite his professedly
> communist political stance. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
>
> Personally, I view the Rengba virus as God's revenge on those who carped about
> the Anti-Hegemony Project taking up too much list-space a while back.
> You know,
> the type of people who come down with it . . .
>
>
> Dodie Bellamy wrote
>
> On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Kevin Killian wrote:
>
> > On Aug 9 Thomas Bell wrote
> >
> > >Aftrer courageous efforts by allnight workers in Mexico City
> > >a cure to the renbga virus was found, saving millions of users
> > >worldwide . The source was discovered and it can be removed!
> > >Contact LTrotsky@mexico.com for a visusrenag remover - 77 Mexican dollars
> >
> > I don't want to sound like the pc-police here, but does this sound a bit
> > racist to anyone else?
> >
> > Dodie Bellamy
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 13:22:17 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa A Januzzi <jma5@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Job Posting - Assistant Curator, Harvard Theatre Collection (fwd)
There were three other jobs advertised on this list, as well... just
thought someone our there might be interested.
--Marisa
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:14:46 -0400
From: Leslie Morris <lamorris@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list EXLIBRIS <EXLIBRIS@RUTVM1.BITNET>
Subject: Job Posting - Assistant Curator, Harvard Theatre Collection
PROFESSIONAL VACANCY
Assistant Curator, Harvard Theatre Collection
Houghton Library
The Houghton Library seeks a creative and thoughtful individual to serve
as the Assistant Curator of the Harvard Theatre Collection. Established
in 1901, the Theatre Collection is America's oldest performing arts
research collection, encompassing all aspects of the history of
performance throughout the world, and with particular strengths in the
English and American stage and the history of theatrical dance.
The Assistant Curator has primary responsibility for organizing and
supervising cataloging procedures and computer applications using HOLLIS
and the Theatre Collection's local area network; serves as the liaison
with other cataloging departments in the College Library, and works
closely with colleagues in the Houghton Library; catalogs original
materials, including manuscripts, drawings, prints, and photographs;
assists the Curator with acquisitions, and supervises the accessioning
process. Together with the Curator, the Assistant Curator supervises the
office, reading room, and other staff members; contributes to planning and
mounting exhibitions and other Harvard Theatre Collection events.
The Collection is estimated to contain over 3 million playbills and
programs, ca. 650,000 photographs, 250,000 engraved portraits and scenes,
15,000 scenery and costume designs, and nearly 6500 promptbooks, in
addition to manuscripts, printed books, journals, and news clippings. The
Collection has been located since 1976 in the Nathan Marsh Pusey Library,
adjacent to the Houghton Library, which is the principal special
collections library of Harvard College.
Qualifications: Masters degree in Library Science; advanced degree in
drama, theatre history, dance, or an allied subject desirable. Library
experience, with cataloging a variety of special formats necessary,
especially manuscripts and visual materials. Experience with
microcomputer applications and familiarity with automated library systems,
with MARC format and AACR2 required. Knowledge of a foreign language
desirable. Minimum of five years of professional work experience,
preferably in special collections librarianship or archival
administration. Exceptional interpersonal and communication skills (both
oral and written). Demonstrated flexibility and initiative in adapting to
changing organizational priorities. Evidence of and commitment to
continuing participation in professional activities.
Compensation: Anticipated hiring salary, mid $40's. Major benefits
include 20 days annual accrued vacation; generous holiday and sick leave;
choice of health plans; dental insurance; life insurance; disability
benefits; University-funded retirement income plan; tax deferred annuity
options; staff tuition assistance; child care scholarship program.
Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Please submit
a letter of application addressing qualifications, resume, and the names
of three references to:
Hazel C. Stamps
Director of Personnel Services
Harvard College Library
Widener 188
Cambridge, MA 02138
HARVARD UNIVERSITY UPHOLDS A COMMITMENT TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND EQUAL
EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY
July 31, 1995
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 13:33:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mitchel? Yasusada?
A mess o' Yasusada material turned up in the recent _Grand Street_-- the
contributors notes on the translators carefully avoid any traceable
information-- for example one of them studied "in Ann Arbor" not _at_ any
particular university. (The work in _GS_ by the way, not as well done as
other I've seen, I think).
A certain Kevin Mitchel keeps getting mentioned on this list, & we are aware
of his time spent in Japan. . .
-Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:46:28 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> (inspection
>prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
division
>with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
>collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
>outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
>My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
the Net"
>and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
>& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
>of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
>and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
pastures
que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueux
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:05:35 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
Gwyn,
then by close you mean somt
something like what Pound of St. Jerome prescribed for translating?
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:06:45 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
Gwyn,
Forgive my typo: a misidentified "saint": change "Pound of St. Jerome" to
Pound OR St. Jerome.
bk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 14:45:23 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspection
> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> when the attorney general came, selah
hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!" Edward Kennedy
Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:49:49 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <sschultz@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
In-Reply-To: <199508100941.CAA24991@ix5.ix.netcom.com>
That bare-handed line drive, as I recall, was off the bat of
Ozzie Smith. Didn't he also play for the Giants for a while? Ronald
Reagan had some silly things to say about him when he (Reagan) did the
"color" commentary on one of the All Star Games. That was when Reagan
called a Hispanic player Jose (just how it's spelled, mind you).
signed, a sad Cardinals fan.
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Ron Silliman wrote:
> Kevin Mitchell was the Most Valuable Player for the National League in
> 1989, I believe, the year he hit 47 homers to lead the league. He once
> caught a line drive in left field with his bare hand. But he did grow
> up in the San Diego ghetto and still hangs with his childhood buddies.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:02:19 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
pangborn writes:
> Jorge writes,
> >it is racist in that it presumes that mexicans lack imagination
> >since the only thing that can stop renga is precisely the lack of
> >imagination. i am partly mexican and, as the famous corrido says, "que
> >siga la renga!"
>
> Aha: I thought Dodie might have meant that the offending post portrayed
> Russian
> caucasians like Trotsky as congenitally unable to keep from exploiting needy
> third-world lab technicians, setting up sweatshops despite his professedly
> communist political stance. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
>
is this anti-semitic?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:25:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <9508102045.AA84950@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> (inspection
> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry cleaners
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:47:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Electronic Book Review: Essays & Reviews Wanted (fwrd)
[forwarded message]
Announcing a new journal on the internet:
*Electronic Book Review,* a working forum promoting innovative writing
on the internet and in print, is soliciting articles for the Fall of
1995. Initial topics will include talklists, network publishing, the
political economy of the internet, and the electronic future of
poetry, criticism, drama, and literary fiction.
Reviews should be both timely and capable of stimulating discussions beyond
the moment of a title's publication. We would prefer thoughtful
overviews, polemics, and review essays to evaluations of single
works. Serial submissions of chapters from work in progress are
welcome, and we will occasionally sponsor on-line publication of books
in advance of their appearance in print.
Issue #1, scheduled for November, is being organized in collaboration
with the *American Book Review*. It will feature reviews of selected
electronic journals and talklists, as well as reflections on "books"
that can only be read electronically. Essays of 1200-1500 words
received by September 15 will be considered for this issue.
For issue #2, we are organizing an email essay forum around an
original essay by Michael Berube, "Cultural Criticism and the Politics
of Selling Out." Additional forums are scheduled for two
collections of new writing: *Chick-Lit (On the Edge: New Women's
Fiction)* [ed. Cris Mazza and Jeffrey DeShell] and
*The Future of Literary Fiction* [ed. David Foster Wallace].
During the first year of operation, we will feature essays and
reviews by Mark Amerika, Michael Berube, Linda Brigham, David
Cassuto, Carolyn Guyer, Paul Harris, Katherine Hayles, Michael Joyce,
Nancy Kaplan, Peter Krapp, Laura Marks, Knut Mork, Marcos Novak,
Martin Rosenberg, Alison Sainsbury, Ronald Sukenick, W. S. Wilson,
Gregory Ulmer, and Walter Vaninni.
EBR will be stored at and distributed from Alt-X (located at
http://www.altx.com).
Joseph Tabbi
English Department
University of Illinois
601 South Morgan Street
Chicago, Illinois 60607-7120
email inquiries: x@altx.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 14:53:59 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
In-Reply-To: <302a27954c90002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 10,
95 10:36:55 am
Hey, Maria, Right On!
I mean Far Out!
Yr Too Much in my book.
Hell, I think I say "Solid!" from time to time.
GB
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 14:55:57 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
In-Reply-To: <302a2646443b002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 10,
95 10:31:20 am
What used to get baseball purists mad at Kevin Mitchell was that he
had enormous skills but did not know much about baseball, and said
that it was just the money he was interested in, and he was no
baseball fan. I think that bothered his detractors more than his
scrapes with the law.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:05:31 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga 11
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508082322.C538999973-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Aug 8, 95 11:37:25 pm
In the books were dreams, and
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:17:08 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: avoidance behavior syndrome
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.950808110245.551581328A-100000
@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU> from "Willa Jarnagin" at Aug 8,
95 11:03:33 am
Well, no, I dont BELIEVE in guitar; but I do keep my miniature cactus
collection in a 1966 Chet Atkins.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:20:16 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: ARRORENGA
Louis Cabri wrote
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> (inspection
>prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
division
>with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
>collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
>outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
>My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
the Net"
>and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
>& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
>of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
>and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
>the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
pastures
>que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueux
Mayakovky govoril o pants and the tailoring was fine
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:15:20 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
>On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>
>> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
>> (inspection
>> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
>> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
>> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
>Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
>no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry cleaners
having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched into
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:26:47 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: JG others and us
""Right On" Alan Sondheim"
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 20:42:40 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Padgett's definition
From _Handbook of Poetic Forms_, edited by Ron Padgett:
"Renga are long, image-filled poems written in alternating
stanzas of three lines and two lines, usually by a group of
poets who take turns. In Japan, where renga originated as a
party game, poets used to make renga of 1,000 or more
stanzas, although 100 stanzas was the usual length. The great
poet Matsuo Basho (1644-1694) preferred renga of thirty-six
stanzas, and this continues to be the popular length today.
...Renga do not read like stories; each stanza "links" to
the one before it, but not to the one before that...The first
six or eight stanzas are like the beginning of a party, when
people introduce one another, a bit formally. In the middle
twenty to twenty-four stanzas the party warms up, with stanzas
that include humor and the whole range of human emotions. A
renga ends with six or eight stanzas that move quickly through
closely related images, with simple, straightforward linking,
like the end of the party, when everyone gets ready to go home.
Traditionally, the last stanza has a spring image, indicating
hopefulness and peace..." Etc., including examples.
I'm finding many of the posted "renga" lines very graceful, and
am all for playfulness, the posting of poems, use of received
forms. But does anyone else find it weird, at least, that we
are writing so-called renga, and kvetching about so-called
renga, when for the most part we have no idea what they are?
And is it the "exoticism" of renga (the non-whiteness of them?)
that makes them glam enough for us to fool around with, when
for the most part, we wouldn't be caught dead in the McCarthyite
"market strategy" of sonnet-writing (Ted Berrigan and others
notwithstanding)?
Thought I'd ask...
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:06:10 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: pardonnez-moi! enfin, c'est la brume de 'traduction'...
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>would calmness be without the stain of possession and
>The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>The caravan of windows to what they flee
>These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> (inspection
>prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
division
>with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
>collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
>outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
>My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
the Net"
>and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
>& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
>of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
>and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
pastures
que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueuse
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 19:01:39 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga 11
In-Reply-To: <199508102205.PAA07230@fraser.sfu.ca> from "George Bowering" at
Aug 10, 95 03:05:31 pm
In your dreams
>
> In the books were dreams, and
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 19:08:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.950811122647.352@ccnov2.auckland.ac.nz> from "Tony
Green" at Aug 11, 95 12:26:47 pm
Gee, I suppose swell is too square, eh? I dunno, I'm a seventies child
polluted by eighties lingo. Choice language, for bitchin folk. What
about nifty? Or is that fifties, daddyo?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 22:08:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
In-Reply-To: <950811004240_74277.1477_HHJ84-1@CompuServe.COM>
Not to be caught dead, oh sonneteer
As if the wound festers, disease
Or other thing, a faulty ear
Hearing what politicians please
To call their own, discomfort
In our postmodernity
While gallantly we reinsert
Ignorance as prosperity.
There's politics in everything we do
Beyond the obvious; the obvious, not so
Although the obvious is never true
I'd think, at least in email, imho.
Cut the ranks of renga's weary tone,
Our ignorance, or throw the form a bone.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 22:42:43 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: "marketing strategies"
Herb Levy,
I'm coming in very late on this, but was quite intrigued by
what you had to say about the writing of sonnets being
possible today only as a "marketing strategy." (Forgive me
if I'm not quoting you exactly, but I think I have the sense).
First, could you define "marketing strategy"? How does it
differ from style, say, or any other honey we use, as writers,
to catch flies?
The writing of the new formalists hasn't interested me, but
not because they *are* formalists--rather because the poems
themselves have seemed warmed-over and bland.
It seems to me that theory, not form, is the real marketing
strategy, in literature at least. In science a theory is
used to test a hypothesis, but in literature theory is used,
far too often, to carry a whole school of writers--the bad
along with the good--into prominence. It is used as an excuse
to stop thinking, to stop reading widely, to circle the
wagons. It is, essentially, fear, in an intellectual form.
Rather than testing a hypothesis, and breaking new ground,
theory in literary hands seems to be used as an instrument of
enforcement, prescribing the sorts of poems (or fictions or
whatever) which are to be written.
I was fascinated when someone on this list, looking for the
almost mythical Cap-l, land of the new formalists, said that
what they wanted was (paraphrased) a real snail darter,
McCarthyite, sonnet-writing list (wish I could quote exactly,
it was beautifully expressed). Disappointingly, the new
formalists don't seem to be over there, although an increasingly
Talmudic discussion of metrics among *old* formalists led to
frustrated explosions from other members of the list, and then
to silence. Still, the longing was there, for the *other*,
whatever weird web-footed creature that might be. In fact, the
most interesting thing that did happen on Cap-l, before its
apparent demise, was a dialogue between Ron Silliman and
Alfred Corn on "parallel traditions" in which I learned vastly
more about Silliman's work than I ever have on POETICS. Why
might that be?
More questions, asked with affection and respect...
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 23:12:23 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Pangborn <V072GDXG@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: University at Buffalo
Subject: Re: ringing renga
maria damon writes,
> pangborn writes:
>> Aha: I thought Dodie might have meant that the offending post portrayed
>> Russian
>> caucasians like Trotsky as congenitally unable to keep from exploiting needy
>> third-world lab technicians, setting up sweatshops despite his professedly
>> communist political stance. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
>
> is this anti-semitic?--md
Yikes--flames smart, and smart flames smart the more smartly.
But no, not anti-semitic except to those who think of semites as a race.
They're no more so than are Mexicans--which is what I was kidding about
before Jorge decided, in all sincerity, that he had to spell it all out.
Dig: that irony gets all over everything around here. Like the dude says
in _The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_, like, if you mess with it you're gonna
get some on ya, like, like it or not, dude.
--Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 22:55:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Your Mail
Sheila E.
Murphy wrote:
->On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
->
->> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
->> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
->> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
->> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
->> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
->> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
->> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
->> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
->> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
->> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
->> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
->> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
->> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
->> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
->> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
->> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
->> (inspection
->> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
->> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
->> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
->> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
->Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
->curls
->no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
->cleaners
->having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched into
the ball Kevin Mitchell bare
handed. Baseball sold
out. cash stricken striked.
Would that as a poet I had
the chance to do something like
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 21:29:13 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
From what I have seen the point is that this is a
transformation of the "renga" to a contemporary
electronic medium. there are patterns and traditions
evolving here.
Or, renga-ignorance is bliss.
Tom Bell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 21:42:30 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Your Mail
Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
->On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
->
->> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
->> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
->> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
->> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
->> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
->> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
->> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
->> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
->> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
->> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
->> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
->> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
->> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
->> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
->> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
->> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
->> (inspection
->> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
->> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
->> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
->> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
->Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
->curls
->no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
->cleaners
->having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched into
the ball Kevin Mitchell bare
handed. Baseball sold
out. cash stricken striked.
Would that as a poet I had
the chance to do something like
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 21:41:16 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Anmarie Trimble <writeme@E-CAFE.COM>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
>Gee, I suppose swell is too square, eh? I dunno, I'm a seventies child
>polluted by eighties lingo. Choice language, for bitchin folk. What
>about nifty? Or is that fifties, daddyo?
Way! Say anything but dude.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 22:02:20 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
>On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>
>> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
>> (inspection
>> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
>> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
>> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
>Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
>no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry cleaners
piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 21:10:40 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
>pangborn writes:
>> Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ> asks:
>> >
>> >to Alam Sondheim (& Survivors - of the 60s/70s all) is it still cool
>> >to say Right On?
>> >
>>
>> No. Say that and I promise I'll punch your lights out.
>>
> excuse me i say right on and groovy all the time. others impute an irony
to my
>using those phrases (assuming no one could say them "straight" anymore),
but i'm
>just saying it. saying it. saying it. come to mpls and i'll say it for you a
>coupla times. or rather, since i'm going on sabbatical, come to cape cod
(YAY!)
>and i'll say it for you a coupla times.--md
Certain phenomena, I would argue, can only be adequately described (and
"adequately" is a judgment call on my part, of course) by the use of the
word "groovy." So, right on, Maria, I'm with you. (In spirit only, natch.)
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 02:54:35 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: why renga, why not sonnet?
In response to Rachel Loden's
>And is it the "exoticism" of renga (the non-whiteness of them?)
>that makes them glam enough for us to fool around with, when
>for the most part, we wouldn't be caught dead in the McCarthyite
>"market strategy" of sonnet-writing (Ted Berrigan and others
>notwithstanding)?
>
>Thought I'd ask...
Possibly, but I think people basically are getting some joy from inventing
lines of poetry (and yes, many graceful, intriguing ones) and from the
people with whom they are inventing -- whether it be renga or sonnet or
villanelle. Although perhaps no matter what the form, we would be
circumventing and developing it wholly without consideration of what its
historical shape and function are.
Rachel, does Padgett say or imply then, that in a traditional renga,
alternating stanzas are written by different poets, rather than alternate
lines being written by different poets?
all best,
charles
charles alexander [===========^^============]
[ <> ]
chax press [ maybe a <> pages ]
[ time <> letters ]
phone & fax: 612-721-6063 [ upon <> frames ]
[ once <> motion ]
e-mail: mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu [ <> ]
[===========vv============]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 03:05:01 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Your Mail
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry cleaners
having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched into
the ball Kevin Mitchell bare
handed. Baseball sold
out. cash stricken striked.
Would that as a poet I had
the chance to do something like
grace the outfield, hands bare
from ringing, washing scales
of passion's conformity never
minding a green surface, far
cry from eternity, kitchen table
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 06:45:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
In-Reply-To: <199508110410.VAA08386@slip-1.slip.net>
There was a book about a decade ago - The 60s without Apology I think)
(edited by Stanley Aronowitz - I forget the details) with an article on
60s language, its relation to the body, its body-centeredness (body-
states, meanderings) - and how these terms have been lost as the body's
been resutured, recuperated as Kristeva's clean and proper body (my own
interpretation, see Powers of Horror), everything conjoined once again.
So that JG and others can be seen in light of that, re: Blake again, the
open body, vibes, a language breaking through language, report from the
flesh - Alan -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 07:16:24 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: ARRORENGA
In-Reply-To: <199508102220.PAA20560@well.com>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> Louis Cabri wrote
>
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > (inspection
> >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
> division
> >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> >collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> >outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> >My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
> the Net"
> >and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> >& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
> >of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
> >and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
> >the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
> pastures
> >que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueux
> Mayakovky govoril o pants and the tailoring was fine
> in d.s. where [[no one] [didn't like sarah lee]] hated her. An
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 07:19:26 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199508102315.QAA29159@bob.indirect.com>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >
> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> >> (inspection
> >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
> >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
> >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry cleaners
> having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched into
> the mowers that be cut here cut and find your motionlessness you'd only
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 07:55:06 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
In-Reply-To: <950811004240_74277.1477_HHJ84-1@CompuServe.COM>
Welcome Rachel and thanks.
Another nonwhite thing which (unlike amateur (i.e. `lover') renga) is
marketable is the pantoum. We should look into that.
So long as I "have" "my" `coffee' `I' will not be `caught' "dead " in the
"marketplace" `of' "ideas".
Query: Who was the McCarthy who wrote sonnets or promoted them?
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Rachel Loden wrote:
> From _Handbook of Poetic Forms_, edited by Ron Padgett:
>
> "Renga are long, image-filled poems written in alternating
> stanzas of three lines and two lines, usually by a group of
> poets who take turns. In Japan, where renga originated as a
> party game, poets used to make renga of 1,000 or more
> stanzas, although 100 stanzas was the usual length. The great
> poet Matsuo Basho (1644-1694) preferred renga of thirty-six
> stanzas, and this continues to be the popular length today.
> ...Renga do not read like stories; each stanza "links" to
> the one before it, but not to the one before that...The first
> six or eight stanzas are like the beginning of a party, when
> people introduce one another, a bit formally. In the middle
> twenty to twenty-four stanzas the party warms up, with stanzas
> that include humor and the whole range of human emotions. A
> renga ends with six or eight stanzas that move quickly through
> closely related images, with simple, straightforward linking,
> like the end of the party, when everyone gets ready to go home.
> Traditionally, the last stanza has a spring image, indicating
> hopefulness and peace..." Etc., including examples.
>
> I'm finding many of the posted "renga" lines very graceful, and
> am all for playfulness, the posting of poems, use of received
> forms. But does anyone else find it weird, at least, that we
> are writing so-called renga, and kvetching about so-called
> renga, when for the most part we have no idea what they are?
>
> And is it the "exoticism" of renga (the non-whiteness of them?)
> that makes them glam enough for us to fool around with, when
> for the most part, we wouldn't be caught dead in the McCarthyite
> "market strategy" of sonnet-writing (Ted Berrigan and others
> notwithstanding)?
>
> Thought I'd ask...
>
> Rachel Loden
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 07:57:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: pardonnez-moi! enfin, c'est la brume de 'traduction'...
In-Reply-To: <9508102206.AA39147@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > (inspection
> >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
> division
> >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> >collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> >outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> >My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
> the Net"
> >and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> >& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
> >of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
> >and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
> the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
> pastures
> que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueuse
chartreuse et delicieuse but let's get to business and see what
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:05:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199508110502.WAA04534@bob.indirect.com>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >
> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> >> (inspection
> >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
> >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
> >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry cleaners
> piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
the day the earth stood still and Klaatu & Gort had a party on the ship
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:18:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Baudelaire
In-Reply-To: <00994AC3.C1166E94.1@admin.njit.edu>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT wrote:
> Forgive my typo: a misidentified "saint": change "Pound of St. Jerome" to
> Pound OR St. Jerome.
>
On the contrary, Burt, I think the typo is awfully interesting, and I
plan to free-associate on "a pound of St. Jerome" later. Is worth an
ounce of = ??
Gwyn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:43:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
In message <199508102155.OAA06357@fraser.sfu.ca> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> What used to get baseball purists mad at Kevin Mitchell was that he
> had enormous skills but did not know much about baseball, and said
> that it was just the money he was interested in, and he was no
> baseball fan. I think that bothered his detractors more than his
> scrapes with the law.
wow, that actually makes him sound rather interesting to me. what were his
scrapes w/ the law?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:44:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: ARRORENGA
In message <199508102220.PAA20560@well.com> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> Louis Cabri wrote
>
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > (inspection
> >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
> division
> >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> >collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> >outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> >My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
> the Net"
> >and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> >& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
> >of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
> >and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
> >the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
> pastures
> >que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueux
> Mayakovky govoril o pants and the tailoring was fine
and i saw, believe it or not, what mankind believes itself to have seen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:48:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
In message <199508102154.OAA06162@fraser.sfu.ca> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> Hey, Maria, Right On!
>
> I mean Far Out!
>
> Yr Too Much in my book.
>
> Hell, I think I say "Solid!" from time to time.
> GB
hey george, i dig u the most. the first time i heard a guy say that, i really
thought he did. i mean, i didn't know it was just an expression of hipster
hyperbole. now i say it all the time, every opportunity. jorge, i dig you the
most too. you too gabrielle, and of course, brian h and dodie b. and all you
others out there in cyperpoetics lang-scape, i dig youse the mostest.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:48:36 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 11
In message <199508102205.PAA07230@fraser.sfu.ca> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> In the books were dreams, and
that was that.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:53:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
rachel writes:
> And is it the "exoticism" of renga (the non-whiteness of them?)
> that makes them glam enough for us to fool around with, when
> for the most part, we wouldn't be caught dead in the McCarthyite
> "market strategy" of sonnet-writing (Ted Berrigan and others
> notwithstanding)?
>
> Thought I'd ask...
>
> Rachel Loden
shall i compare thee to a summer's minnesota thundershower?
thought i'd ask...feel free to add on--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:55:59 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga 11
ryan k writes:
jerry garcia's
In your dreams
In the books were dreams, and
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:51:30 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: poet and statesman
Jorge,
The reference is to Senator Joe, (R-Wisconsin). We have yet
to find his cache of sonnets--and what a discovery that will
be--but he was symbolized, in my red-diaper babyhood, by the
men in suits at the door...
Rachel
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:07:02 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: ARRORENGA
In-Reply-To: <302b5ed73e29002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> In message <199508102220.PAA20560@well.com> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> > Louis Cabri wrote
> >
> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > > (inspection
> > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
> > division
> > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> > >collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> > >outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> > >My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
> > the Net"
> > >and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> > >& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
> > >of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
> > >and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
> > >the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
> > pastures
> > >que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueux
> > Mayakovky govoril o pants and the tailoring was fine
> and i saw, believe it or not, what mankind believes itself to have seen
side by side with womankind vying for the stereoscope
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:18:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
pangborn writes:
> maria damon writes,
> > pangborn writes:
> >> Aha: I thought Dodie might have meant that the offending post portrayed
> >> Russian
> >> caucasians like Trotsky as congenitally unable to keep from exploiting
> > needy
> >> third-world lab technicians, setting up sweatshops despite his professedly
> >> communist political stance. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
> >
> > is this anti-semitic?--md
>
> Yikes--flames smart, and smart flames smart the more smartly.
>
> But no, not anti-semitic except to those who think of semites as a race.
> They're no more so than are Mexicans--which is what I was kidding about
> before Jorge decided, in all sincerity, that he had to spell it all out.
>
> Dig: that irony gets all over everything around here. Like the dude says
> in _The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_, like, if you mess with it you're gonna
> get some on ya, like, like it or not, dude.
>
> --Jim
cool, bro, truce, couldn't resist, like, is "caucasian" a race? is there such a
thing as race? and yes, i did sense irony, but that sense was overborne (?) by
that other sense. peace, man--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:21:19 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
sheila m writes:
> >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >
> >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> >> (inspection
> >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
> >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
> curls
> >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
> cleaners
> piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:22:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
steve writes:
>
> Certain phenomena, I would argue, can only be adequately described (and
> "adequately" is a judgment call on my part, of course) by the use of the
> word "groovy." So, right on, Maria, I'm with you. (In spirit only, natch.)
>
> Steve
come back, o gary sullivan!--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:25:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
sondheim writes:
> There was a book about a decade ago - The 60s without Apology I think)
> (edited by Stanley Aronowitz - I forget the details) with an article on
> 60s language, its relation to the body, its body-centeredness (body-
> states, meanderings) - and how these terms have been lost as the body's
> been resutured, recuperated as Kristeva's clean and proper body (my own
> interpretation, see Powers of Horror), everything conjoined once again.
> So that JG and others can be seen in light of that, re: Blake again, the
> open body, vibes, a language breaking through language, report from the
> flesh - Alan -
a resounding right on here!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:27:06 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
> From _Handbook of Poetic Forms_, edited by Ron Padgett:
>
> "Renga are long, image-filled poems written in alternating
> stanzas of three lines and two lines, usually by a group of
> poets who take turns. In Japan, where renga originated as a
> party game, poets used to make renga of 1,000 or more
> stanzas, although 100 stanzas was the usual length.
&&&
>Rachel, does Padgett say or imply then, that in a traditional renga,
>alternating stanzas are written by different poets, rather than alternate
>lines being written by different poets?
i believe that the terms "stanzas" and "lines" (and, for
that matter, "syllable") are not _exact_ translations for
what actually happens in Japanese--some translators,
for instance, render japanese haiku as a single line...
from _From The Country of Eight Islands_, edited by Hiroaki Sato &
Burton Watson:
"Toward the end of the Heian period, poets composing in the tanka
form began to follow a tendency to divide the 31-syllable form and
organize images into two smaller parts of 5-7-5 and 7-7 syllables.
By the fourteenth centruy, such a division had made dominant the poetic
form of renga, in which usually two or more poets wrote alternating
5-7-5 and 7-7 syllable parts. Although any two consecutive parts--but
not mare--of a renga were to relate directly, such linking did permit
the development of longer poetic structures...The amount of concentration
and cooperation required for successful renga composition might be
compared with the challenge of playing chamber music: in both cases,
each participant must listen carefully to his companions as well as
to himself in order to keep the momentum boing. The pleasure of
"performing" poetry in a group, already an important element in
the tanka contests of the imperial court, flowered in the cooperative
esthetic of the renga."
the translations this book provide seem to render the parts (5-7-5
and 7-7 "syllable" "lines") as single english lines; most but not
all of these parts are by alternating poets, but occasionally a
single poet will contribute several parts in a row...
also:
"in content, there were two kinds of renga: the formal serious kind that
stressed elegance in the court poetry tradition, and the light humorous
kind that stressed earthiness and realism. The latter, known as haikai
no renga or simply haikai, often overwhelmed the serious renga in sheer
popularity...
hmmm... i wonder which of those two kinds we're most akin to here?...
and i wonder if those tanka contests were like poetry slams??
asallways
luigi
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:57:38 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
sondheim writes:
>...
> Although the obvious is never true
> I'd think, at least in email, imho.
> Cut the ranks of renga's weary tone,
> Our ignorance, or throw the form a bone.
what's imho?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:27:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: pardonnez-moi! enfin, c'est la brume de 'traduction'...
jorge writes:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>
> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > > (inspection
> > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
> > division
> > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> > >collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> > >outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> > >My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
> > the Net"
> > >and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> > >& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
> > >of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
> > >and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
> > the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
> > pastures
> > que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueuse
> chartreuse et delicieuse but let's get to business and see what'
s in that rare air-guitar garage, maybe a tarte du jour or
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:37:34 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
In-Reply-To: <302b66c968c5002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> pangborn writes:
> > maria damon writes,
> > > pangborn writes:
> > >> Aha: I thought Dodie might have meant that the offending post portrayed
> > >> Russian
> > >> caucasians like Trotsky as congenitally unable to keep from exploiting
> > > needy
> > >> third-world lab technicians, setting up sweatshops despite his professedly
> > >> communist political stance. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
> > >
> > > is this anti-semitic?--md
> >
> > Yikes--flames smart, and smart flames smart the more smartly.
> >
> > But no, not anti-semitic except to those who think of semites as a race.
> > They're no more so than are Mexicans--which is what I was kidding about
> > before Jorge decided, in all sincerity, that he had to spell it all out.
> >
> > Dig: that irony gets all over everything around here. Like the dude says
> > in _The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_, like, if you mess with it you're gonna
> > get some on ya, like, like it or not, dude.
> >
> > --Jim
>
> cool, bro, truce, couldn't resist, like, is "caucasian" a race? is there such a
> thing as race? and yes, i did sense irony, but that sense was overborne (?) by
> that other sense. peace, man--md
on race dig The History and
Geography of Human Genes by Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi and
Alberto Piazza, Princeton UniversityPress 1994.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:45:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <302b675c6c3b002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> sheila m writes:
> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> > >
> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > >> (inspection
> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
> > curls
> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
> > cleaners
> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:45:57 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Fred E. Maus" <fem2x@DARWIN.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: New list
I am starting a new mailing list, collab-mus, for discussion of
collaborative music-making that involves improvisation. My own
interest centers on relatively recent real-time interactive
composition related to post-war avant garde traditions (for
instance, Stockhausen's Aus den Seiben Tagen, Oliveros's Sonic
Meditations, the Inter/Play sessions of Boretz, Randall, and
others), but discussions of interactive improvisation in any
kind of music will be appropriate.
Contributions to the list could include scores for
interactions; reports of experiences as performer or listener;
discussions of aesthetic, ethical, and political issues;
reports and discussions on analogous collaborative enterprises
in media other than sound (for instance, collaborative poetry-
writing; MOOing). In keeping with the topic, the list is
unmoderated and will take whatever direction its contributors
give it.
To subscribe to the list, write to <majordomo@virginia.edu>.
Leave the subject line blank. The message should consist of the
command "subscribe collab-mus" followed by your email address.
(If you give no address, the return address of the message will
be subscribed.)
--
Fred Everett Maus Dept phone (804) 924-3052
Department of Music Home phone (804) 974-6039
University of Virginia Fax to dept (804) 924-6033
Charlottesville VA 22903 e-mail fem2x@virginia.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:15:26 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
rachel writes:
>
>
> It seems to me that theory, not form, is the real marketing
> strategy, in literature at least. In science a theory is
> used to test a hypothesis, but in literature theory is used,
> far too often, to carry a whole school of writers--the bad
> along with the good--into prominence. It is used as an excuse
> to stop thinking, to stop reading widely, to circle the
> wagons. It is, essentially, fear, in an intellectual form.
> Rather than testing a hypothesis, and breaking new ground,
> theory in literary hands seems to be used as an instrument of
> enforcement, prescribing the sorts of poems (or fictions or
> whatever) which are to be written.
rachel, it seems to me that anything can be used this way becuz face it,
academia is not full of original, intellectually adventurous sorts, and
categorization can be used as intellectual shorthand for not dealing with ideas.
"theory" is, i think, just a word, when u think of, say, the differences between
lacan, deleuze and stuart hall, it seems incongruous that the same word is used
to either fetishize or dismiss them. but i agree that labels and categories
more often stultify than enable thinking and engagement. i never read the
"objectivists" before this summer, when i saw carl rakosi read at naropa and was
captivated, because i was put off by the category and terminology of
"objectivist" --i thought one had to be really smart to read them, so i never
did.
>
> I was fascinated when someone on this list, looking for the
> almost mythical Cap-l, land of the new formalists, said that
> what they wanted was (paraphrased) a real snail darter,
> McCarthyite, sonnet-writing list (wish I could quote exactly,
> it was beautifully expressed).
i could tell you a lot about the politics of this list, the cap-l, since many of
the originating participants are in my department. mcCarthyite is not, in my
view, too strong a term. i'm glad the list has been injected w/ silliman,
stroffolino and other people with brains, open minds and reasonable politics,
who can rise above the knee-jerk conservatism of some of these folks (many of
them boycotted a recent reading by kathleen frazer because they'd heard a rumor
that she was a "language poet.") i coujld go on and on, but the whole thing
makes me really angry and that's indecorous.
>
> More questions, asked with affection and respect...
>
yes, please, keep em coming...--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:50:25 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: pardonnez-moi! enfin, c'est la brume de 'traduction'...
In-Reply-To: <302b68de752a002@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> jorge writes:
> > On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >
> > > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >would calmness be without the stain of possession and
> > > >The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > > >These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > > >Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > > >but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > > >Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > > >& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > > >bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > > >kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > > >gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > > >flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > > >halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > > > (inspection
> > > >prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long
> > > division
> > > >with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
> > > >collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
> > > >outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
> > > >My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of
> > > the Net"
> > > >and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
> > > >& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
> > > >of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
> > > >and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
> > > the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from
> > > pastures
> > > que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueuse
> > chartreuse et delicieuse but let's get to business and see what'
> s in that rare air-guitar garage, maybe a tarte du jour or
a genessee quah genessee cum but je dig tu diges, nous digons!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:37:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 11: Invasion from Mars
maria damon writes:
>ryan k writes:
>jerry garcia's
>In your dreams
>In the books were dreams, and
the child woke up & the renga was over.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:37:42 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
> rachel writes:
>> And is it the "exoticism" of renga (the non-whiteness of them?)
>> that makes them glam enough for us to fool around with, when
>> for the most part, we wouldn't be caught dead in the McCarthyite
>> "market strategy" of sonnet-writing (Ted Berrigan and others
>> notwithstanding)?
>>
>> Thought I'd ask...
>>
>> Rachel Loden
>
>shall i compare thee to a summer's minnesota thundershower?
>thought i'd ask...feel free to add on--md
That's a haiku, not the first line of a sonnet.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:13:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Willa Jarnagin <jarnagin@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
In-Reply-To: <199508110208.TAA24397@fraser.sfu.ca>
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Ryan Knighton wrote:
> Gee, I suppose swell is too square, eh? I dunno, I'm a seventies child
> polluted by eighties lingo. Choice language, for bitchin folk. What
> about nifty? Or is that fifties, daddyo?
I'm a seventies kid too and find myself using cool, awesome, excellent,
and have recently picked up chill, take a pill, well-fuck-me-Jesus (oh, I
think I made that one up), fuckwad, fuckhead... and meanwhile constantly
weeding my "likes". And remember wicked? Wicked excellent. Also I've
taken to refering to myself in my less noble moments as a hosebeast. I
suppose Wayne and Garth have influenced my language more than Bernadette
Mayer even.
That's kind of, like, depressing.
Anybody have favorite swears? Preferably offensive to somebody's
religion, race, creed, ethnicity, veteran status, disability, gender, or
sexual orientation -- just not mine.
;)
(Hey, we should invent "smiley" swears.) Figure this one out: ****
And now, for serious discussion: what do people think of swears in poetry?
Speaking of Bernadette Mayer--I think she uses them beautifully.
Wicked Willa the Hosebeast
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:10:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: Exquisite Renga
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
would calmness be without the stain of possession and
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspection
prickling with tenors, saving arrogance for free choice, long division
with its equally long aftertaste, or did its overtone
collapse a wild sugar ago the fleet of cabernet oblivions for
outrage. Marketing posture allowed gravel a way home
My dream a drink w/ Douglas Coupland. We discuss "The Code of the Net"
and he is transparent like Victor the Vector getting home
& Hector the Protector sent back by the Queen
of Wands, who willed her magic to free political sentences
and wake us from such dreams. He stayed in to practice
the cool float of heretocracy he'd read was poles apart from pastures
que j'essuie comme la loi, saisie, monstrueuse
chartreuse et delicieuse but let's get to business and see what's in that
rare air-guitar garage, maybe a tarte du jour or
a genessee quah genessee cum but je dig tu diges, nous digons!
Qui pleure la, sinon le vent simple, a cette heure
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:12:52 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: jive supplant
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
curls
no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
cleaners
piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
Jive shiva a serpent quiver neigh-dom a mortar
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:14:57 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: among the spoilsports
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry cleaners
having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched into
the ball Kevin Mitchell bare
handed. Baseball sold
out. cash stricken striked.
Would that as a poet I had
the chance to do something like
grace the outfield, hands bare
from ringing, washing scales
of passion's conformity never
minding a green surface, far
cry from eternity, kitchen table
bleached down, a firecracker
cold as the buckles on my sandals
as the wesleyans come in the room
and hang up their robes and go
down to the fellowship hall
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:20:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: Padgett's Handbook
A note from the publisher:
The definition of the renga is from _The Teachers & Writers Handbook of
Poetic Forms_, edited by Ron Padgett, $13.95 paper, $22.95 cloth, 230 pp. (+
$3.50 s/h). You can order it from me at Teachers & Writers Collaborative, 5
Union Square West, NY NY 10003. Or you can call (212) 691-6590.
Thanks,
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:46:24 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: reading at Biblio's
If it's not too e-gauche to post two advertisements the same day, I'd like to
invite list-readers in the NY area to a reading on Sunday August 20th at 5
pm, at the Biblios Cafe. Biblios is located on Church Street between
Lispenard and Walker (meaning it's around the corner from the Pearl Paint on
Canal Street). I'll be reading with my friend Tim Griffin, who writes for the
Print Collector's Newsletter and whose play, "Fingerprints", will be staged
this fall.
Jordan Davis
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:01:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga 11: Invasion from Mars
In-Reply-To: <v01530501ac5127d2ccbf@[192.0.2.1]> from "Herb Levy" at Aug 11,
95 08:37:29 am
I've never seen a renga quite lik ethis. Every line is competing to be
the last. It's the Blob and we're in trouble.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 14:33:37 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Query
In-Reply-To: <01HTX0I7ZTZO8WXSB9@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> from "Charles
Bernstein" at Aug 10, 95 05:47:55 pm
Would anybody know how I can get in touch with Forrest gander (phone;
address; e-mail)? You can backchannel to me -- I'd hate to innerupt da
renga...
pierre
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 15:03:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.950811103933.543173942B-100000@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
My father picked up my mother's family's Polish pieties and used them as
swears: "Matka boskiej Czestochowa!" He also coined my all-time favorite
swear: "Jesus H. Christ on a fucking life raft!"
The all-time great swear in poetry has to be Larkin's "They fuck you up,
your mum and dad."
Gwyn McVay
gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:04:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.950811103933.543173942B-100000
@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU> from "Willa Jarnagin" at Aug 11,
95 11:13:39 am
Interesting, since I just said to GB that nobody can swear or say CRAP
quite like Sharon Thesen (thinking of her poem to Brian Fawcett: oooh,
nasty nasty; love that stuff) There's fine use of bad language in poetry.
I mean, I didn't know whang had an h in it. Learn somethin everyday.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 15:16:20 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Query
In-Reply-To: <01HTX0I7ZTZO8WXSB9@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> from "Charles
Bernstein" at Aug 10, 95 05:47:55 pm
Thanks to everyone for quickly getting back with Gander's address --
at times the net works better than dialing 5551212
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 15:29:16 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
dear rachel loden--thanks for your thoughtful response to herb levy
about the cliquishness---whether or not the CAp-L people are McCarthyites
I think must be an oversimplification--I catch myself speaking of
"formally conservative poets" as conservatives, and am glad I have a
couple of AWP-type friends. Of course, the "left",("this list we're
on", whatever....) does tend to elide the difference between the
more working class Levine types and the more James Merrill types
--and I think there should be more dialogue between
"various factions" rather than the balkanized inbreeding of any
clique--and though i myself have not written "sonnets" since I tried
some puerile ones long ago--I am definitely open to discussion of
them--There does seem to be an abiding distate of anything that seems
"conservative." I mean, even Phillip Larkin (WHO HATED JAZZ and was
politically conservative) in his poems at times seems to speak from
a leftist perspective--or could be read as such---furthermore, there
is something VERY GENERATIVE in his work that it seems ridiculous for
someone to deny on ostensibly "political" grounds--It seems many
readers are so queasy about "the great tradition" as if the mere act
of reading a fascist (oh, an dissertations on Yeats "fascist metrics"
abound) WILL MAKE YOU (i mean ONE) a fascist....
And maybe Rachel (though your question was probably rhetorical) the
reason you learned something from the Corn-Silliman debate was because
it was NOT as claustrophobic as the little "divided left" debates that
occur here (the L poets vs. the M--remember that one!)--I hope for
more of such--so thank you, Chris Stroffolino
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:11:12 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: vacation
Fellow Interscriputors:
I am going on vacation and am signing off the list for a while;
i can be reached backchannel (replies may be tardy).
Burt Kimmelman
kimmelman@admin.njit.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 00:45:49 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: [DAMONG THE SPOILSPORTS
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance (inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
curls
no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
cleaners
having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched into
the ball Kevin Mitchell bare
handed. Baseball sold
out. cash stricken striked.
Would that as a poet I had
the chance to do something like
grace the outfield, hands bare
from ringing, washing scales
of passion's conformity never
minding a green surface, far
cry from eternity, kitchen table
bleached down, a firecracker
cold as the buckles on my sandals
as the wesleyans come in the room
and hang up their robes and go
down to the fellowship hall
McCarthy Birchbark sonnets
screeched on blackboards
and smeared the vanished.
Poetry not written down
Unwritten words do not cringe
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 02:18:48 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: swearing et al
Gwynn, I agree with Raworth that the original read 'They tuck you up, your
mum and dad' but a friend riffed off it and he went with the better version
(either that or it was typo and he kept it in at the proofing stage) -
anyway, what price origination?
lingalongarenga
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 21:50:13 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lindz Williamson <lmichell@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: beardsley
In-Reply-To: <199508111916.PAA02377@loki.hum.albany.edu>
I'm looking for stuff on Aubrey Beardsley, anybody know of any good
sources? I wnat background stuff and a collection of his works. SOf ar
I can only find The Gallatin Collection published in 1952 by Princeston.
thanks, Lindz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 21:37:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Mexicans aren't a race." But who is?
In-Reply-To: <199508110755.AAA23620@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Africans aren't a race either, but that doesn't prevent people from
making racist remarks about them --
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 21:36:13 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest
In-Reply-To: <199508110755.AAA23620@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
who is responsible for these guitar rumors?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 21:39:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga 11: Invasion from Mars
Ryan Knighton writes
>I've never seen a renga quite lik ethis. Every line is
>competing to be the last. It's the Blob and we're in
>trouble. Unless godzilla arranges renga to save
TomBell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 23:22:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Brian W Horihan <hori0001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: microcosmic slang
In-Reply-To: <199508111916.PAA02377@loki.hum.albany.edu>
This talk about seventies-speak got me remembering
those strange words kids on my block used before we were brave
enough, and before the disintegration of "the block" led us, to use the real
swear words. The only one i can think of now that was
exclusive to our street was "gary," an adjective or noun meaning
something like "awkward, square, feeble," that was meant to deride, e.g.,
"shut up, you gary" or "you're so gary, get out of here." It had no
etymology, really, b/c no one named gary lived anywhere near us.
(apologies to all garys on the list.) --brian
nowdays, however, my favorite interjection is jesus-shit.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 21:14:04 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
Headlines in papers here in Nashville indicated that his
passing was the end of an era. I'm not sure this is so
and his loss might be the ashes (or grave - interesting
although morbid question Do Grateful Dead prefer
cremation) from which the Phoenix will rise and rekincle
some of the spirit or soul of that time.
Tom Bell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:41:37 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <sschultz@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: not a job announcement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950810104636.27421A-100000@uhunix3.its.Hawaii.Edu>
To all:
The creative writing program at the University of Hawai'i does
not advertise for its Visiting Distinguished Writers (as they are
called), but it is possible to express interest in being one by writing
to Prof. Robbie Shapard, Dept of English, 1733 Donaghho Road, U of
Hawai'i, Honolulu, HI 96822. The positions are for one semester, and I
have no idea what they pay (the going rate, I suspect). Because the
process has been so mysterious, the writers have tended to be of a kind,
which hasn't been so much a bad thing, as a predictable one. I, for one,
would love to see people on this list apply. If anyone wants more
information, I can muster it up.
Susan Schultz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 19:44:20 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
kook!"
Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco
warehouse, curls
no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the
dry cleaners
having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched
into
the ball Kevin Mitchell bare
handed. Baseball sold
out. cash stricken striked.
Would that as a poet I had
the chance to do something like
grace the outfield, hands bare
from ringing, washing scales
of passion's conformity never
minding a green surface, far
cry from eternity, kitchen table
bleached down, a firecracker
cold as the buckles on my sandals
as the wesleyans come in the room
and hang up their robes and go
down to the fellowship hall
the garcia posological convention already underway
platform sonneteers
reminisce those hash oil crisis years
when every squib seemed damp & colon slack:
get real, ya doofuses, the Blob is back
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 17:49:48 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: ringing renga
>maria damon writes,
>> pangborn writes:
>> pangborn writes:
>> Russian caucasians like Trotsky as congenitally unable to
>> keep from exploiting needy third-world lab technicians,
>> setting up sweatshops despite his professedly
>> communist political stance. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
>
> is this anti-semitic?--md
>Yikes--flames smart, and smart flames smart the more smartly.
>But no, not anti-semitic except to those who think of semites
>>as a race.
>>They're no more so than are Mexicans--which is what I was kidding
>>about before Jorge decided, in all sincerity, that he had to
>>spell it all out.
>>Dig: that irony gets all over everything around here.
>>Like the dude says in _The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_,
>>like, if you mess with it you're gonna
>>get some on ya, like, like it or not, dude.
>>--Jim
And back to:
In the books were dreams and in the life there was a book
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 20:46:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
re Larkin's "They fuck you up" -- Raworth has comment on that in the _Exact
Change Annual_ which reads
". . . the terrible drabness of Larkin (whom I imagine wrote "They tuck you
up/your mum and dad" then rode the wave of a typo)."
not seventies, but a recent citing, Padgett seems to be getting mentioned
alot, in his memoir _Ted_ he mentions "freaked his gobble" as in "Man, I
freaked her gobble!"
a W.Va. bit I like is "Holy Mackeral Andy!" as an expression of pleasant
surprise. Another one is "Heck-A-Fire-Wiz!" -- the "meaning" of that one is
not exactly clear.
But, I have to say nothing yet touches the aforementioned "Well fuck me
Jesus."
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 19:57:49 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: theory (for Maria D)
Dear Maria,
Yes, you're right, I did overstate my case on theory in the
snit of the moment. There is some pleasure in it, in the
right hands: things sifted, brought to light...
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:58:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Reginald Johanson <reginalj@SFU.CA>
Subject: Favourite swears and Seventies
I heard one last night while listening to Ani Difranco: it's my
faviourite now and I intend to use it often: "Fuck you very mich."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 15:38:05 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: West Coast Line
In-Reply-To: <00994B8D.8AAC6B40.1@admin.njit.edu> from "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT"
at Aug 11, 95 04:11:12 pm
This is an embarrassed message to Mark Wallace, and this is the
reason why I am using the open net. Mark, I have, oh this is hard to
believe, lost your address AGAIN. I have turned the whole house
upside down, even looking thru books and bookmarks.
The mag is out, and there's a copy and a cheque waiting to be sent to
you. It is a beaut of an issue. If yr on here, please forgive me and
send address again. I can be backchannelled at
Bowering@sfu.ca
By the way, if Mark aint on here, can somebody send me an address?
By the way, this issue of *West Coast Line* has a nifty 14-pp poem by
Steve Mccaffery in it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 15:21:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
>On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
>
>> sheila m writes:
>> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
>> > >> (inspection
>> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
>> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
>> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
>> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
>> > curls
>> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
>> > cleaners
>> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
>> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
> the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:40:41 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
>
> The all-time great swear in poetry has to be Larkin's "They fuck you up,
> your mum and dad."
>
> Gwyn McVay
> gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
or john lennon, "they're still fuckin' peasants as far as I can see."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:39:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
my favorite expressions actually pertain to mental illness, such as, the lights
are on but nobody's home; she's a few fries short of a happy meal, so and so's
round the bend, lost her marbles, off to the funny farm hurry let's go, friggin'
in the riggin', a total fruitcake/nutcase, etc. i know there're other favorites
i'm forgetting right now. i'd love to expand my repertoire. i dont know why i
find them so amusing. maybe cuz it's a "heavy subject." also for death: so and
so cashed in his chips, bit the dust, kicked, etc. One of the expressions that
my father used for food --"shit on a shingle" --meaning, i think, corned beef
hash on toast, has been adopted by me as a "swear." what is a swear, anyway?
obscenity? language defaming religious figures or beliefs? both? in the 70s
when we didn't like something, we'd say it "sucks moose."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:31:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
willa the j writes:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Ryan Knighton wrote:
>
> > Gee, I suppose swell is too square, eh? I dunno, I'm a seventies child
> > polluted by eighties lingo. Choice language, for bitchin folk. What
> > about nifty? Or is that fifties, daddyo?
>
> I'm a seventies kid too and find myself using cool, awesome, excellent,
> and have recently picked up chill, take a pill, well-fuck-me-Jesus (oh, I
> think I made that one up), fuckwad, fuckhead... and meanwhile constantly
> weeding my "likes". And remember wicked? Wicked excellent. Also I've
> taken to refering to myself in my less noble moments as a hosebeast. I
> suppose Wayne and Garth have influenced my language more than Bernadette
> Mayer even.
>
> That's kind of, like, depressing.
>
> Anybody have favorite swears? Preferably offensive to somebody's
> religion, race, creed, ethnicity, veteran status, disability, gender, or
> sexual orientation -- just not mine.
>
> ;)
>
> (Hey, we should invent "smiley" swears.) Figure this one out: ****
>
> And now, for serious discussion: what do people think of swears in poetry?
> Speaking of Bernadette Mayer--I think she uses them beautifully.
>
>
> Wicked Willa the Hosebeast
does anyone else from boston remember the laudatory adjective "pissa"? as in,
that's a wicked pissa shirt, man. when i taught at the full circle high school
i overheard a writing teacher trying to get this one kid to use adjectives other
than "good" to describe the way a band played. the kid wrote, saying it aloud
as he did in that questioning voice people use when trying to supply synonyms,
"they played wicked pissa."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:30:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Padgett's definition
herb writes:
> > rachel writes:
> >> And is it the "exoticism" of renga (the non-whiteness of them?)
> >> that makes them glam enough for us to fool around with, when
> >> for the most part, we wouldn't be caught dead in the McCarthyite
> >> "market strategy" of sonnet-writing (Ted Berrigan and others
> >> notwithstanding)?
> >>
> >> Thought I'd ask...
> >>
> >> Rachel Loden
> >
> >shall i compare thee to a summer's minnesota thundershower?
> >thought i'd ask...feel free to add on--md
>
> That's a haiku, not the first line of a sonnet.
>
>
>
> Herb Levy
> herb@eskimo.com
so sue me. i lie corrected.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 07:14:04 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies," CAP-L, & the gap (mind it or lose it)
Rachel Loden wrote:
>First, could you define "marketing strategy"? How does it
>differ from style, say, or any other honey we use, as writers,
>to catch flies?
If I recall correctly, "marketing strategy" is a rather flip phrase used in
a hastily written post to POETICS, used to imply a particularly
self-conscious use of a particular range of earlier styles. But you're
right, it isn't much different from style. Though in the context of you
later statement (about theory, rather than form, being the real marketing
strategy in literature, which seems true in many ways), this kind of
appropriation of "classical" styles _is_ as much more about theory than it
is about form. It just that the theory involved states that forms with
enough past history communicate transparently, but that these forms are
solid enough to hide the rest of the theory behind them.
<large cut>
>I was fascinated when someone on this list, looking for the
>almost mythical Cap-l, land of the new formalists, said that
>what they wanted was (paraphrased) a real snail darter,
>McCarthyite, sonnet-writing list (wish I could quote exactly,
>it was beautifully expressed).
I've always thought of CAP-L as more of an often neglected (literal, not a
BBS) bulletin board in a hallway lined by faculty office with the doors
closed, except for the few, very rare, attempts at conversation. In any
case, there really don't seem to be a very high percentage of active "new
formalists" posting there. Of course, CAP-L is generally quite low volume
(especially compared to POETICS, even discounting all of the renga lines,
which must be deeply discounted indeed), so it's hard to say who really is
there. CAP-L will be good for a few messages as soon as the next "famous"
"mainstream" poet dies, or the next "big awards" are announced.
If CAP-L were any less inactive, I might remember to unsubscribe, but now
that you remind me, where _did_ I put my copy of the listserv refcard?
<small cut>
>In fact, the
>most interesting thing that did happen on Cap-l, before its
>apparent demise, was a dialogue between Ron Silliman and
>Alfred Corn on "parallel traditions" in which I learned vastly
>more about Silliman's work than I ever have on POETICS. Why
>might that be?
If this is still directed at me, you're, obviously, asking the wrong
person, but I'm willing to make some brief comments.
First, if CAP-L is like a neglected faculty bulletin board, POETICS is more
like a bar frequented by people who know a lot about writing within the
tradition of poetic innovation (which is probably why Ron Silliman doesn't
feel he has to explain his work, or the tradition it comes out of, here).
Second, in some ways, the Silliman/Corn exchange was an example of theory
as marketing strategy. Ron Silliman made a very good, best-case description
of the tradition of poetic innovation in the context of a group of people
who don't seem to question the more staid Norton anthologies very much,
though they don't seem to have noticed the more recent, and more diverse,
additions to the Norton family of blunt implements. (Talk about marketing
strategies as cynicism, but that's a different discussion.) If the
Silliman/Corn dialogue got one more faculty member to consider taking a
left turn after Lowell or Plath, it was worth it.
But note that forays onto CAP-L by folks from POETICS (at least those since
last winter) have invariably ended when someone on CAP-L says "okay, you've
made your point about what some of the problems with OUR stuff are, can you
give an example of an inferior work in the "parallel tradition," so that we
have some kind of idea 0f how YOUR aesthetics operate." So far no one from
POETICS has been willing to say "yeah, here's something that was published
in Origin (or Acts, or Aerial, or Alcheringa, or Avec, to go through some
of the more recent journals on the shelf behind me) & it is really, really
bad."
This leads into what may be a third comment, or at least a kind of
meta-comment on POETICS. In exchange for the high level of camaraderie (and
the apparently related high degree of renga) available on POETICS, there's
a perhaps understandable unwillingness to dig too deeply into any of the
stylisitic, theoretical, or formal differences that separate POETICS'
various denizens.
We don't all appreciate the same works equally, or for the same reasons, on
(or off) POETICS, even though we often act as if we do. A few months ago
someone missed the sarcasm (few smileys are seen here at POETICS, I'm happy
to say) when I posited the term "the kind of poetry we're all interested
in" as a definition of the kind of poetry we're all interested in.
Now, negative definition is a powerful means of bonding a group. But, just
because "none of us" are "really" "CAP-L," whatever any of that may mean,
doesn't mean we're all the same. To go back to CAP-L example you raised
(*example alert*: one could fill in just about any writer's name where I
have, in this instance, used the term "Ron Silliman" and the meaning of
this sentence would not change), not everyone here likes, or even knows,
Ron Silliman's work. In some ways it would be helpful for there to be a
more detailed discourse on any specific writer on POETICS. So go ahead &
start with whoever you like.
"Mind the gap." The differences on POETICS (even unacknowledged) are a good
part of what keeps us together. That, and a tremendous fear of completing a
sentence in a neo/non-tradtional renga.
At least until the next issue of Apex of the M (&, uh, except for Aram
Saroyan's, which had 3, and may not really have been an "M" anyway, doesn't
every "M" have two apexes?) comes out. But few of the distinctions that
came out in that earlier discussion were clear (though they were much
belabored), and the clearest distinctions pertained to (the often
execrable) editorial politics rather than poetics.
I'm not suggesting that people start badmouthing each other on (or off)
POETICS, just calling attention to some of the unacknowledged limitations
of having such a happy, renga-loving community "here."
Bests,
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 11:08:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: University at Buffalo
Subject: The List Itself
For the second time this week, but only for the third time in the history of
the list, there were over 50 messages posted to Poetics on Friday. When this
happens the list locks itself automatically, and Listserv sends me a message
that I have to unlock it by sending out an unlock message. At 10am this
morning I did this and something like 30 messages that had been held were
released.
I think 50 is a reasonable upper limit for daily messages. But as I am
not online every day, especially during the summer, there is a potential
problem here.
As many of you know, if you change your user ID you also need to unsub to
Poetics under the old name and resub under the new name or you will not be
able to send posts. If you have a problem with this send me a message with
the old address and I can delete it manually. You should be able to resub
yourself with the new address without problem.
If you are having any problem with your account, or our nearing the disk
quota, please unsub yourself. I get hundreds of bounced Poetics messages a
week from servers that have can't deliver a Poetics message and these are, to
say the least, a nuisance. The worst instance of this was some mad recycling
of bounced messages from one subscriber's system last week, to the tune of
3000 error messages a day for a couple of days, effectively closing my own e-
mail account down. Subscribers who bounce messages are removed from the
Poetics list so if this happens, once you've solved the problems that caused
the messages to bounce, just resub yourself.
All of this reminds me of my commitment to keep the scale of this list on the
smaller side, not only because I am committed to small-scale exchanges but
also because this particular list is not set up -- _I'm not set up!_ -- to
handle more volume than we've now got. I have noted before that sheer volume
on a list has as much of a tendency to exclude, by effectively preventing
participation by those unable to sort through the volume, as more explicit
means of limiting subscription. For some using sophisticated software, or
indeed having easier access to the net, sorting through this volume may be
less a problem than it is for, I suspect, many Poetics subscribers. This is
all changing very quickly. My hope is that with the Eisnerization of the net,
we have some basic alternative sites, EPC and Poetics are two models, firmly
in place. But I certainly don't have the answers and see Poetics as only one
of many possible formats for listserve poetry discussion groups.
I often feel that the time I spend on list maintenance actually keeps me from
posting more, but this is, for now, my principal method of participation.
Charles Bernstein
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 11:43:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Scheil <cschei1@GRFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.950811103933.543173942B-100000@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
A few choice swears from the bookstore where I work. We make it a point
of honor to come up with a couple of new epitaths a week. Heres a crop in
current circulation:
1. pizzle-head origin unknown, but probably a derivational coinage from
pissant, a word which my boss used once, to the great
hilarity of the staff)
2. monkey boy from _Buckaroo Banzai_, a secret slack-generation
film classic)
3. hapless catamite coined by a gay friend to describe someone so obsessed
with his sexuality that he is unable to carry on a
conversation about anything else except "is X gay or
straight?"
4. skanky wheezer all variants now in some disfavor, as "skank" is
skank-meister currently considered to be a somewhat recherche term.
Roi du Skank Also, we are currently experiencing a revival of
Ska, and many afficanodos object to the perjorative
detournemant of what they consider a positive word.)
5.hungry-monkey a term coined by Salem--a former Marine--who traces
this phrase to his stint in the Phillipines during the
Mt. Pinatubo eruption. One of his tasks at the time
was to hunt down & shoot gangs of crazed monkeys who
would invade the base in search of cast-off
MREs(Meals-Ready to Eat--basically, Military TV
dinners), & often fight pitched battles against
each other with rocks & anything else they could
throw.)
6. Mr. Weasel accompanied by the lip-smacking & sucking sounds that
this minor Warner Brothers cartoon figure made
whenever in the presence of food. Used to describe
a lecher or anyone whose demeanor at any time betrays an
immodestly excessive interest in the physical
attributes or amorous potential of another.)
7. Christ on a bike! (a ejaculatory term of amazement. My college friend
Pat says that this is an common phrase from the
Michigan UP, though I've never heard anyone but my
co-workers say it.)
8. Pendejocito a variation from the classic by my roomate Hugo to
describe someone whose calumny was either
unintentional or insufficiently offensive to
warrant the full word)
8. Driver of the gravy train (a perjorative term for either an excessive
optimist or someone whose delight threatens
to overwhelm the dour mood of another.
From _The Ruling Class_, a wonderful British
movie about a delusional fellow who shifts in
personality from Jesus Christ to Jack the
Ripper.)
Also, a common death phrase: "there ain't enough left of him/her to
spread on toast." (said of someone either
long or violently dead.)
And as is customary at the bkstore, I'll end with a common phrase of
departure: Screw You! Click. (then imitate the sound of a dead telephone line.)
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 09:22:22 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: West Coast Line
>This is an embarrassed message to Mark Wallace, and this is the
>reason why I am using the open net. Mark, I have, oh this is hard to
>believe, lost your address AGAIN. I have turned the whole house
>upside down, even looking thru books and bookmarks.
>
>The mag is out, and there's a copy and a cheque waiting to be sent to
>you. It is a beaut of an issue. If yr on here, please forgive me and
>send address again. I can be backchannelled at
>
>Bowering@sfu.ca
>
>By the way, if Mark aint on here, can somebody send me an address?
>
>By the way, this issue of *West Coast Line* has a nifty 14-pp poem by
>Steve Mccaffery in it.
By the way, George, is that the only thing of interest in the new West
Coast Line?
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 11:21:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Mexicans aren't a race." But who is?
aldon writes:
> Africans aren't a race either, but that doesn't prevent people from
> making racist remarks about them --
yes, plus, the fact that "semites" aren't a race doesn't mean it's not possible
to degrade them as a group --hence the word "anti-semitic"--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 09:22:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
>
>does anyone else from boston remember the laudatory adjective "pissa"? as in,
>that's a wicked pissa shirt, man. when i taught at the full circle high school
>i overheard a writing teacher trying to get this one kid to use adjectives
>other
>than "good" to describe the way a band played. the kid wrote, saying it aloud
>as he did in that questioning voice people use when trying to supply synonyms,
>"they played wicked pissa."
Holy shit, I haven't thought of that in years. Thanks, Maria. Kids really
still say that? Amazing.
I'd always thought to spell it "pisser," though. & I wouldn't spell the
island 90 miles south of Florida "Cuber," either.
Bests
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 12:45:05 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199508112221.PAA21606@bob.indirect.com>
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> >
> >> sheila m writes:
> >> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> >> > >> (inspection
> >> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> >> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> >> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> >> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!"
> >> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
> >> > curls
> >> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
> >> > cleaners
> >> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
> >> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
> > the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
> Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams were hooks.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 13:48:00 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Beaudoin <cybercomm@CHARM.NET>
Subject: Re: The List Itself
When I looked up, Charles Bernstein had writ large across
my screen:
(snip)
>the list, there were over 50 messages posted to Poetics
on Friday. When this
>happens the list locks itself automatically, and Listserv
sends me a message
>that I have to unlock it by sending out an unlock
message. At 10am this
>morning I did this and something like 30 messages that
had been held were
>released.
(snip)
>All of this reminds me of my commitment to keep the scale
of this list on the
>smaller side, not only because I am committed to
small-scale exchanges but
>also because this particular list is not set up -- _I'm
not set up!_ -- to
>handle more volume than we've now got. I have noted
before that sheer volume
>on a list has as much of a tendency to exclude, by
effectively preventing
>participation by those unable to sort through the volume,
as more explicit
>means of limiting subscription.
Tho newish to list, I am in sympathy with yr post,
especially the 'little red hen' syndrome. Frankly I
expected more meat and less filler, especially the renga
party line. Perhaps a Renga list is in order.
David, crankywithrenganoodlingclogginguphismailclient
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
David Beaudouin in cybercomm@charm.net
Baltimore, Maryland tropos@charm.net
hon! vox/fax: 410.467.0600
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 17:45:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
In-Reply-To: <01HTY9KARH8I8WWMC6@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Chris Stroffolino--
curious--what's an AWP type? Can you spot one on sight? Can you assume
anyone at the AWP conference is an AWP type?
Gwyn McVay
gmcvay1@osf1.gmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 17:54:37 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: swearing et al
In-Reply-To: <9508120211.aa22500@post.demon.co.uk>
Cris, I thought that somebody in the London or New York or one of the
famous stodgy reviews of books alleged that the line originally read
"They do you harm, your father and mother" until Larkin's editor
convinced him to be a bit more pungent.
Gwyn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 18:24:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
Gwyn McVay--
Thanks for calling me on "AWP type"--I mean people who frequent AWP
conferences, people who when we talk about poets tend to mention
Joy Harjo alot (for instance)--of course my two good friends who
went to last AWP both complained about the fact that most "poets"
there tended to look like lawyers too much--it isn't that I can
"spot one on sight" nor that the boundaries are absolutely rigid
(for, I may try to go the next one myself---though with the wish
to "make it more interesting" which usually means "subvert it"
but that's true in ANY scene, isn't it?)--Well, I guess i could
be more specifc....Were YOU at the last AWP conference? Could you
share with us your AWP experiences? chris s.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 18:55:32 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
In-Reply-To: <01HTZU44YO1E8Y56M2@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Chris S.--
The "AWP experiences" I've had are too much of a long, strange trip to
recount here, since (I admit this now, before everyone, so there are no
illusions) I work for them as an editor on the _Chronicle_. I actually
did feel like I knew what you meant by "AWP type," since I deal with a
lot of them on the phone--poets for whom the kindest possible adjective
is "mid-list." Yet Carolyn Forche' is on the Board of Directors, and she
routinely assigns her classes things like the great big Sun & Moon
anthology, Dragomoschenko, Hejinian, etc. as readings. Go figure. So I DO
think there is such a thing as a spottable AWP type, but then you have
Forche', and my boss is all ga-ga about this article we just got from
Clayton Eshleman. And we have an interview with Anne Waldman ready to go
to press. So you never know.
Gwyn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 18:37:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
cstroff writes:
> Gwyn McVay--
> Thanks for calling me on "AWP type"--I mean people who frequent AWP
> conferences, people who when we talk about poets tend to mention
> Joy Harjo alot (for instance)--of course my two good friends who
> went to last AWP both complained about the fact that most "poets"
> there tended to look like lawyers too much--it isn't that I can
> "spot one on sight" nor that the boundaries are absolutely rigid
> (for, I may try to go the next one myself---though with the wish
> to "make it more interesting" which usually means "subvert it"
> but that's true in ANY scene, isn't it?)--Well, I guess i could
> be more specifc....Were YOU at the last AWP conference? Could you
> share with us your AWP experiences? chris s.
one way to subvert, it seems, might be to sound yr BARBARIC AWP across the
conference-room rooftops --(not?) --md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 18:41:15 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
gwyn writes:
> Chris S.--
>
> The "AWP experiences" I've had are too much of a long, strange trip to
> recount here, since (I admit this now, before everyone, so there are no
> illusions) I work for them as an editor on the _Chronicle_. I actually
> did feel like I knew what you meant by "AWP type," since I deal with a
> lot of them on the phone--poets for whom the kindest possible adjective
> is "mid-list." Yet Carolyn Forche' is on the Board of Directors, and she
> routinely assigns her classes things like the great big Sun & Moon
> anthology, Dragomoschenko, Hejinian, etc. as readings. Go figure. So I DO
> think there is such a thing as a spottable AWP type, but then you have
> Forche', and my boss is all ga-ga about this article we just got from
> Clayton Eshleman. And we have an interview with Anne Waldman ready to go
> to press. So you never know.
>
> Gwyn
yeah, you know, i think it's too easy to make assumptions that people who have a
certain style and orientation in their own writing are hostile or unconscious
to/of others' rather than appreciative --and of course, as in the cap-l list and
in my dept it's sometimes true --but, for example, my writing has never treated
the "language" poets or oral-tradition poets (w/ possible exception of antin and
kaufman), but i dig them the mostest. --md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 20:16:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
In-Reply-To: <950811204654_72363742@aol.com> from "Rod Smith" at Aug 11,
95 08:46:55 pm
When my mother was six, she was quoted for sying "Poo bugger bum shit"
at the top of the stairs. Aleatory at six at the top of the stairs.
When i was fiftenn and visiting Toronto, my cousins used "freak on my
melon", as in " hey dad, don't freak on my melon". I moved home
to Vancouver after a coupla weeks.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 23:04:47 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
On Sat, 12 Aug 1995 18:24:13 -0400,
Chris Stroffolino <LS0796%ALBNYVMS.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu> wrote:
> Thanks for calling me on "AWP type"--I mean people who frequent AWP
> conferences, people who when we talk about poets tend to mention
> Joy Harjo alot (for instance)
Joy's OK. People in the southwest mention her a lot, whether they are AWP
types or not. Have you heard her with band, Poetic Justice? Not really my
cup of tea, but she's a friend, and I hate to see her used as an icon in
this way. But then I guess we're all fair game.
charles alexander
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 01:29:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
Thanks to Herb, Maria, Gwyn and Charles for there insights on "AWP"
of course--if we want to prevent this discussion from lapsing into
mere abstractions concerning "balance" and "reconciliation" (to
export Coleridge's terms on "organic form") of poet factions, the
issue is not just whether Forche is okay and acceptable because she
teaches SUN & MOON people, but the challenges such an aesthetic these
poets (i should say "these poets" because my formulation is, OF COURSE,
vague at present) practice may raise and/or pose...
LIKE AWP, APR has shown an openness to certain avant-gardists--
Schwerner, Howe (though i don't think Fanny), Scalapino, and Shapiro
have all been on cover, and someone once told me of Duncan's double
standard (It's okay if *I* read beryyman, but young poets shouldn't)
and I am reminded of Ashbery's assertion of O'hara as "too straight
for the hips and too hip for the straights"--and perhaps I am just
speaking about a fruitiful (fructifying?) aporia that exists in
the MAPPING of any sense of poetry---If there are "two kinds of
people"--those who prefer to work within what may be called a single
style, or ideology, and whose sense of "community" becomes rigidified
(either because of "early success" or because of "habit, the great
deadener" or because of genuine commitment a la Watten's "my
imagination locked into place during the vietnam war") and, on the
other hand, those who prefer "the freedom of the poet" despite all
the ideological markers that always reinscribe a certain "stance",
can we say that these "two types of poets" exist in each of us,
in a way LIKE CHARACTERS (as, for instance, the debate in Perelman's
FIRST WORLD between "leftwing playgrounds" and "rightwing communic-
ation centers"---I don't have the book handy now, that's a paraphrase)--
and that "difference between" can't help but be "difference within?"
And what good would such a distinction make? Well, I think it
would encourage at least a certain re-opening to things one may
have dismissed out of fear of being swamped by infinity....
For I witnessed a panel discussion with Creeley and Forche on it
(I've written about it elsewhere if anyone wants a copy) last fall
and found myself often siding with Forche against Creeley---
just as I find sometimes the "personal anecdote" of a James Tate
more valuable by being put in dialogue with, say, Harryman or
others. To find connections where they are not often said to be
probably also implies its inverse (that "claims of lineage" are
often done for ingenuous reasons)....okay, enough----
chris stroffolino
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 22:53:48 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
>On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
>> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
>> >
>> >> sheila m writes:
>> >> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> >> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
>> >> > >> (inspection
>> >> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> >> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
>> >> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
>> >> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
kook
>!"
>> >> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
>> >> > curls
>> >> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
>> >> > cleaners
>> >> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
>> >> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
>> > the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
>> Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
> of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams were hooks.
All melded like striated film leftover in the pastel seeds of darkness
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 00:58:42 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <mcba@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
On Sat, 12 Aug 1995 22:53:48 -0700,
Sheila E. Murphy <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM> wrote:
>>On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> sheila m writes:
>>> >> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>>> >> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>>> >> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>>> >> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>>> >> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>>> >> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>>> >> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>>> >> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>>> >> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>>> >> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>>> >> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>>> >> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>>> >> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>>> >> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>>> >> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>>> >> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
>>> >> > >> (inspection
>>> >> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>>> >> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
>>> >> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
>>> >> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
>kook
>>!"
>>> >> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
>>> >> > curls
>>> >> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
>>> >> > cleaners
>>> >> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
>>> >> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
>>> > the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
>>> Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
>> of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams were hooks.
>All melded like striated film leftover in the pastel seeds of darkness
composed with fetching strands, forwarding replies to deletion's aviary.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 00:18:41 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Appeal for international solidality (fwd)
In the aftermath of the June 4th commemmoration, the April Fifth Action,
Hong Kong, would like to make an appeal to the international community to
denounce the assaults made by the Chinese Government against political
activists, especially the workers, in China.
The activists in China have put up a beroic fight in the last couple of
months. There have been workers protests, petitions and press conferences.
These are signs that the Chinese Democracy Movement has made important
progress since the June 4th crackdown six years ago.
Because of this, the Chinese Government has stepped up its repressions, for
fear that the Movement might present a serious threat when social discontent
and unrest have been building up for the last two to three years. Dozens of
organisers have already been arrested in the past few months, among whom are
Wei Jin-sang, Wong Dan, Lau Nin-chun and Chan Chi-ming, just to name a few
prominent ones.
The Chinese Government has been especially brutal to workers who organise
union activities. Three workers in Shencheng, just across the border of Hong
Kong, were arrested last year for organising unions and distributing
handbills. Unconfirmed reports said that they were sentenced to long prison
terms.
Here are some information about the 3 organizers arrested in ShenZeng:
1. Li Wen-ming and Kuo Le-zhuang, Male, Han race, both from Hunan Province
(in the middle of China, along the Yangtze River), about 27 years old.
2. Li was trained at a Hunan technical college (not sure which department).
In his school years, he had already participated in the local student
movement. After his graduation, he was assigned to a factory to work. In
1991, he resigned and went to ShenZeng and got a job as the public relation
officer of the magazine "Youth of ShenZeng". At the end of 92, he went to
Beijing University to study and associated with democracy activists there.
3. Kuo Le-zhuang studied in the Shanghai Transport University and was active
in the student movement, bding a student leader of the university during the
86-87 student unrest. In a meeting with the then Shanghai Mayor, Jiang Zemin
(now the President of china), Kuo critized Jiang harshly and thus won the
respect of the students. When the student unrest was over, he was dismissed
and went back to the countryside. In 1993, Li Wen-ming invited him to go to
ShenZeng to do organizing work.
4. In June, 1993, Li and Kuo initiated a program to educate the workers
about the poor labour conditions in the numerous factories in ShenZeng. In
August, they started a Workers' Evening School, which attracted hundreds of
workers to attend the courses. Then they planned to establish an independent
trade union called the "Union of Labourers". (In China, independent trade
unions are not allowed. There is only one union-the Official Trade Union
controlled by the CCP).
5. In September, 1993, the ShenZeng Public Security Bureau took away some
documents from their office. In October, under pressure from the PSB, they
fled to Beijing. Then at the beginning of 94, both of them came back to
start again..
6. In April, 1994, the PSB arrested them. To date, they are still detained
incommunicado, with no charges pressed against them.
7. There are about a dozen core activists involved in the project. Two of
them are Guo Bao-sheng, a student of the Chinese Poeple's University
(Beijing) and Li Ming-qi of Beijing University. Both were dismissed for
political reasons (that means they deviated from the party line and
harboured 'libral' ideas). Guo was arrested at the same time with Li and Kuo
while Li Ming-qi's whereabout has been unknown from then.
****************************************************************************
************
We appeal to you all to send protest messages to the Chinese Government to
demand for the release of these activists who had done nothing but to
exercise the freedom of speech and the right to associate.
Please send protest letters or messages to the Standing Committee, National
Poeples' Congress, Beijing, China.
We would very much appreciate if you can pass the message to other labour
organisations.
****************************************************************************
************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
April Fifth Action
Front Portion, 2nd Floor email: tllau5@hkein.ie.cuhk.hk
103, Argyle Street
Mongkok Tel: (852) 2397 6337
HONG KONG Fax: (852) 2394 4383
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
++++ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig ++++
++++ more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm ++++
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 00:18:59 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Tong Yi Urgent Action (fwd)
URGENT ACTION ALERT: TONG YI
July 15, 1995
Human Rights in China (HRIC) has learned that on the morning
of July 13, 1995 two police officers visited the parents of
political prisoner Tong Yi to inform them that: 1. Due to the
fact that Tong Yi has been uncooperative in completing her labor
production quotas since her arrival at the Hewan Reeducation
Through Labor Camp in Wuhan, Hubei Province, China in January
1995, she would be transferred to the Shayang Reeducation Though
Labor Farm in Hubei province (the largest such camp in the
country) where prison authorities would use "forceful measures"
to make her obey; 2. Her mother would no longer be allowed to
visit her because Tong Yi becomes too despondent and unruly
following her monthly visits.
HRIC also has reliable information that Tong Yi has already
been beaten with police batons by police guards in the labor
camp.
HRIC is extremely concerned the "forceful measures" referred
to will involve physical punishment administered by the labor
camp authorities or other prisoners ordered to do so. HRIC
considers Tong Yi a prisoner of conscience who is in immediate
physical danger and calls on the international community
including the UN Committee Against Torture and the UN Working
Group on Arbitrary Detention to demand for the immediate and
unconditional release of Tong Yi. [See below for addresses
individuals can write to calling for her release.]
Tong Yi, 27, was the former assistant and translator for
China's most famous dissident, Wei Jingsheng, until her detention
in April 1994 after informing foreign reporters about Wei's April
1, 1994 detention. On December 22, 1994, Tong was sentenced
without trial to a two-and-a-half year Reeducation Through Labor
term. She was sentenced under Article 10 (4) of the 1982 "Trial
Implementation Methods for Reeducation Through Labor" which
allows for the detention of individuals for up to three years
without charge or trial for activities deemed to "disturb public
order." Although the detention order did not specify what crime
she was accused of, Tong Yi's only "crime" appears to be her
association with Wei Jingsheng.
Since her sentencing, Tong has been working 12-hour days in
a textile workshop at the Hewan Reeducation Camp near her home in
Wuhan, Hubei Province. In a letter smuggled out to her mother,
Tong Yi described being beaten on January 16, 1995 by two camp
inmates working as "trusties" assigned to assist the prison
guards in keeping order. The beating occurred after Tong refused
to work more than the eight hours per day stipulated by state
regulations and complained about expectations that prisoners in
the camp work until 10 p.m. or later to fulfill their production
quotas. Tong asked camp officials for protection but was beaten
the following day by more than ten fellow women prisoners. Her
face and body were reportedly swollen and covered with bruises.
In her letter, Tong Yi stated that she would work only eight
hours, "even if they beat me to death." The letter also claimed
that her written appeals against the inhumane conditions in the
camp were repeatedly stolen or confiscated.
Tong studied political science at the University of
Political Science and Law in Beijing. She was active in the 1989
democracy movement on Tiananmen Square as part of the Student
Dialogue Delegation and as a result was forced to leave the
university befo graduating. She then worked with the dissident
intellectual Cao Siyuan and translated China's Crisis into
Chinese. The book, by Columbia University professor Andrew
Nathan, examines the impact of the Beijing Massacre on the
legitimacy of the Chinese Communist Party.
Tong became an assistant for Wei Jingsheng upon his release
from a 14-and-a-half year imprisonment in September 1993. For the
following seven months she acted as a liaison between Wei and
foreign diplomats and journalists. Tong Yi had been accepted to
Columbia University for a master's program in political science,
and upon her arrest Columbia President George Rupp made a direct
appeal for her release.
-------------------------------------------------------
Write to the Chinese authorities and make them aware that you
know about Tong Yi's situation and demand that she be released
immediately or at least be allowed access to a lawyer of her
choice to appeal her case in accordance with Chinese law.
Jiang Zemin (Greeting: His Excellency)
President
State Council
Beijing, PRC 100701
Fax: 011-8610-467-7351
Li Peng (Greeting: His Excellency)
Premier
Guowuyuan
9 Xihuangchenggenbeijie
Beijing 100032
Fax: 011-8610-512-5810
Tian Qiyu Zhang (Greeting: Dear Director)
Gonganting
Fujiapo, Wuchang
Wuhanshi 430070
Hubeisheng
People's Republic of China
---------------------------------------------------------
HUMAN RIGHTS IN CHINA is a politically independent, non-profit
organization founded by scholars and students from the People's
Republic of China. HRIC's work involves documenting and
publicizing human rights abuses in China, informing Chinese
people about international human rights standards and the
mechanisms by which these are enforced, and assisting those
persecuted and imprisoned in the PRC for non-violent exercise of
their fundamental rights and freedoms.
HRIC publishes the quarterly journal CHINA RIGHTS FORUM. For more
information, email us at hrichina@igc.org or write to us at Human
Rights in China, 485 Fifth Avenue, 3rd Floor, New York, NY 10017
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
April Fifth Action
Front Portion, 2nd Floor email: tllau5@hkein.ie.cuhk.hk
103, Argyle Street
Mongkok Tel: (852) 2397 6337
HONG KONG Fax: (852) 2394 4383
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
++++ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig ++++
++++ more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm ++++
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 00:51:26 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: not a job announcement (fwd)
To all:
The creative writing program at the University of Hawai'i does
not advertise for its Visiting Distinguished Writers (as they are
called), but it is possible to express interest in being one by writing
to Prof. Robbie Shapard, Dept of English, 1733 Donaghho Road, U of
Hawai'i, Honolulu, HI 96822. The positions are for one semester, and I
have no idea what they pay (the going rate, I suspect). Because the
process has been so mysterious, the writers have tended to be of a kind,
which hasn't been so much a bad thing, as a predictable one. I, for one,
would love to see people on this list apply. If anyone wants more
information, I can muster it up.
Susan Schultz
Being as I'm here--Oh, please please please someone on this list apply!!
That would be wicked pissa!
Gab.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 07:49:29 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Larkin fucks again
If it was a typo, it was habitual. This is from "High
Windows":
When I see a couple of kids
And guess he's fucking her and she's
Taking pills or wearing a diaphragm,
I know this is paradise
Everyone old has dreamed of all their lives--
Bonds and gestures pushed to one side
Like an outdated combine harvester,
And everyone young going down the long slide
To happiness, endlessly...
It seems to me that anybody who whacked off as often as
Larkin did probably had the word "fuck" tattooed on his
brain--drab, wretched creature that he was...
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 12:12:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199508130553.WAA18481@bob.indirect.com>
On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> sheila m writes:
> >> >> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> >> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> >> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> >> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> >> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >> >> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >> >> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >> >> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >> >> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >> >> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >> >> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> >> >> > >> (inspection
> >> >> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> >> >> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> >> >> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> >> >> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
> kook
> >!"
> >> >> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
> >> >> > curls
> >> >> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
> >> >> > cleaners
> >> >> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
> >> >> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
> >> > the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
> >> Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
> > of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams were hooks.
> All melded like striated film leftover in the pastel seeds of darkness
> falling like a counterirritant around the manchineel. Likewise
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 12:32:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <19875.mcba@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
On Sun, 13 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Aug 1995 22:53:48 -0700,
> Sheila E. Murphy <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM> wrote:
>
> >>On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >>
> >>> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> sheila m writes:
> >>> >> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >>> >> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >>> >> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >>> >> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >>> >> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >>> >> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >>> >> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >>> >> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >>> >> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >>> >> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> >>> >> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> >>> >> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> >>> >> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> >>> >> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> >>> >> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> >>> >> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> >>> >> > >> (inspection
> >>> >> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> >>> >> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> >>> >> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> >>> >> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
> >kook
> >>!"
> >>> >> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse,
> >>> >> > curls
> >>> >> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
> >>> >> > cleaners
> >>> >> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
> >>> >> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
> >>> > the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
> >>> Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
> >> of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams were hooks.
> >All melded like striated film leftover in the pastel seeds of darkness
> composed with fetching strands, forwarding replies to deletion's aviary.
That is our true memorial to Tic Douloureux. What is empery if you can't
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 10:37:21 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lisa Robertson <Lisa_Robertson@MINDLINK.BC.CA>
Subject: beardsley for lindz
hi lindz,
one book I've read on Beardsley and his work in the context of a grotesque
tradition in european art-- reaching back to greco-roman antiquity and
forward to Bakhtin and "perverse erotics" -- is Ewa Kuryluk's Salome and
Judas in the Cave of Sex: The Grotesque-- Origins, Iconography, Techniques.
From Northwestern University Press, 1987. Many great illustrations from
Beardsley and others, too.
best,
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 14:00:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Larkin fucks again
In-Reply-To: <950813114929_74277.1477_HHJ27-6@CompuServe.COM>
On Sun, 13 Aug 1995, Rachel Loden wrote:
> It seems to me that anybody who whacked off as often as
> Larkin did probably had the word "fuck" tattooed on his
> brain--drab, wretched creature that he was...
I for one am suspicious of any attempt to correlate wretchedness with
whack-off rate (damn near a critical myth in the case of Larkin). ;-)
Let's find other causes for Larkin's asinine character, please.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg The moment is at hand.
University Writing Program Take one another
Duke University and eat.
Durham, NC 27708
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 13:55:52 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: your mail
Comments: To: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
On 13 Aug 95 at 12:32, Jorge Guitart wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 12 Aug 1995 22:53:48 -0700,
> > Sheila E. Murphy <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM> wrote:
> >
> > >>On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> sheila m writes:
> > >>> >> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> > >>> >> > >
> > >>> >> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >>> >> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >>> >> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >>> >> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >>> >> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >>> >> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
> > >>> >> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> > >>> >> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> > >>> >> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> > >>> >> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > >>> >> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > >>> >> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> > >>> >> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> > >>> >> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> > >>> >> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> > >>> >> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> > >>> >> > >> (inspection
> > >>> >> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> > >>> >> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> > >>> >> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> > >>> >> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
> > >kook
> > >>!"
> > >>> >> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehou
> se,
> > >>> >> > curls
> > >>> >> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
> > >>> >> > cleaners
> > >>> >> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
> > >>> >> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
> > >>> > the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
> > >>> Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
> > >> of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams were hooks.
> > >All melded like striated film leftover in the pastel seeds of darkness
> > composed with fetching strands, forwarding replies to deletion's aviary.
> That is our true memorial to Tic Douloureux. What is empery if you can't
file your nails against a monarch? The veil of tears, swept away with
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 17:52:08 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Debrismaterial noise-poem
In-Reply-To: <199508131855.NAA12605@zoom.bga.com>
>
> >
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >> > >
> > > >>> >> > >> (inspection
> g
> ,
> > > >kook
> > > >>!"
> ou
> > se,
> > > >>> >> > curls
> ry
> e
> .
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 16:59:40 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: furnished, remember?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508131242.B539133147-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Aug 13, 95 12:32:00 pm
So, for those out there/in here who so energetically aided me
with furnishing decisions, one has finally been made and engaged:
I am putting things in places where they fit! Very arbitrary and
spatially centred. Whew.
We even have a Jesus ash-tray to be used on Sundays only.
Thanks for the inspired and disfunctional suggestions.
best,
ryan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 19:00:46 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: THANKYOU C.B. for the list, equal, that is...
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
the french language
of a pubed cratylian vs.
baud a lair rate
in ascii for it
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:51:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Larkin fucks again
Dear David kellogg--for one who has a quote from THOMAS KINSELLA
(gag) I'm REAL CURIOUS why you'd call Larkin assinine--isn't that
kinda like the little fish calling the big fish "poison" (if you're
i mean you'll pardon my french"------anne onimous....
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:57:21 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: JG others and us
I once had a mother-in-law who would say as a swear Sugar, but would
also say when asked repeatedly what was for dinner: Shit with Sugar
on. My favourite NZ adjective is "wretched" pronounced "ratshit.
There's something awry with the time of postings from here, no sooner
do I see my second favourite chook get on to a Renga, to wit, Foghorn
Leghorn, when I nowhere see him now no more, incompany with a line
that disappeared into oblivion. What is thees?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
post: Dept of Art History,
University of Auckland,
Private Bag 92019,
Auckland, New Zealand
Fax: 64 9-373 7014
Telephone: 64 9 373 7599 ext. 8981 or 7276
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:14:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: your mail
>On Sat, 12 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
>> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> >
>> >> >On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, maria damon wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> sheila m writes:
>> >> >> > >On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> >> > >> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> >> > >> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> >> > >> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> >> > >> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> >> > >> > The caravan of windows to what they flee
>> >> >> > >> > These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
>> >> >> > >> > Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
>> >> >> > >> > but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
>> >> >> > >> > Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
>> >> >> > >> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
>> >> >> > >> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
>> >> >> > >> > kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
>> >> >> > >> > gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
>> >> >> > >> > flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
>> >> >> > >> > halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
>> >> >> > >> (inspection
>> >> >> > >> > denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
>> >> >> > >> > pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
>> >> >> > >> > mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
>> >> >> > >> > when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
>> kook
>> >!"
>> >> >> > >Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco
warehous
>e,
>> >> >> > curls
>> >> >> > >no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the dry
>> >> >> > cleaners
>> >> >> > piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on prescience
>> >> >> the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
>> >> > the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose encore
>> >> Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for moments to be
>> > of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams were hooks.
>> All melded like striated film leftover in the pastel seeds of darkness
>> falling like a counterirritant around the manchineel. Likewise
sandpaper juxtaposed with seasoned instruments and recently soft fruit
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:16:44 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <sschultz@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Rejected posting to POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (fwd)
I sent the messages on Corn's and Silliman's CAP-L exchange to Alfred
Corn (a college teacher of mine). Here's his response.
Susan
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 16:25:43 -1000
From: Indepen <adc8@columbia.edu>
To: Susan Schultz <sschultz@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu>
Subject: Rejected posting to POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (fwd)
Dear Susan--Tried to send this but was rejected. Do you think you could
forward it to them?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 15:08:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Indepen <adc8@columbia.edu>
To: POETICS@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: "Marketing strategies"
I was interested by a post forwarded to me about "marketing strategies"
for concurrent poetic styles, which leads to the following connected
series of questions:
(1) Is the purpose of the POETICS list to have a go at changing
subscribers' thinking on questions of poetics, or simply to send a message
pleasing to the speaker even if not designed or destined to change
anyone's thinking?
(2) If the latter, then why not just skip the list and send it to oneself
alone?
(3) If the purpose is to change subscribers' thinking, then why not
present the sender's thinking on a particular style or poetry?
(4) Given how revealing metaphors are, which of the following metaphors
best describes the process of changing the thinking of another person?
a. The lighting of one candle from another.
b. Selling, and the marketing strategies behind selling.
c. Infection--the propagation of a microbe or virus.
d. Coercion, the marshaling of intellectual troops to enforce
correct thinking.
e. Seduction--attraction, effective endearments and caresses,
leading to surrender.
f. Inebriation--conveyance of intellectual substances which
erode resistance or blur argument.
g. Terrorism--dropping a bomb and taking advantage of the
resulting fear and confusion to assume control.
h. A sermon leading to conversion
i. The banquet--setting out a dinner and declaring "Open House."
(5) Are there other metaphors that describe the process?
(6) Have there been instances of subscribers' changing their
thinking on the basis of posts on POETICS? If so, how did it happen?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 07:03:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (fwd)
I'm readng Alfred Corn's posting to POETICS and wondering who it was
a response to--perhaps Rachel...or maybe Herb Levy--though Levy's
lengthy post did not really suggest "changing people's minds" so maybe
that idea was a Corn intepolation. It sees to me that herb was less
interested in changing people's minds than he was in wanting people to
come out of the closet a little me and be willing to "define" themselves.
But maybe that's a misreading too. As for myself, I'd like to see more
of a attempt at such "definition" but I don't think a discussion of the
work of somebody on the list would necessarily work---(esp. when there's
a thread around still called "Jerry Garcia" which has nothing to say
about its ostensible subject but "nifty" swear words)---in parts because
then the list becomes subordinated to the published body of someone's
work---for me, one of the values of the list is that to some extent it's
AN ESCAPE from that, a possibility for a different mode of dialogue than
"poetry" and "essay writing"--i still have some kind of faith in the
possibility of "organic" "improvisation" or something among the rengas...
And the possibilities of ISSUES that have come up here (such as metaphor,
the self/the soul,and others) seems more fruitful than bringing egos
into it too much by discussing the work of a "big name" or career level
( i meant "mid-career level"--mandel's term) or unknown poet----
Jordan Davis asked this question of what do we want to happen on this
list awhile ago, and it's still an open question...I'm on a SHAKESPEARE
list and though the arguments there are not so much analogous to the ones
here (I.e.--not a matter of JONSON vs. SHAKESPEARE like OLSON vs. O'HARA)
but there is HUGE division about critical approaches and/or temperaments
(IF anyone still believes in that), and it's handeld for the most part
very gracefully--..and maybe in the POETICS world "candor" is nothing
but the title of a book by alan davies (though maria damon and others
have been quite candid), and maybe this is due to fear of alienating
potential supporters---I keep thinking of that thing in Midsummer Night's
Dream where the actors are afraid that roaring like a lion will scare
the audience...when of course even a VERY GOOD actor can not convincingly
roar like a lion enough to scare, let alone THEM! (us)--or the dylan
line about "the one who tries to hide what it don't know to begin with"--
And, MAYBE MAYBE dear Alfred Corn I'm just loving to hear myself speak--
(and this has gone on long even for me--but what the hell---) but since
I don't always believe you have to try to change someon's mind in order
not to "just hear yourself speak" it may be something else.....
sloppily yours (unwinding),
chris s.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 11:03:53 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: keith <KWTUMA@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Rejected posting to POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:16:44 -1000 from
<sschultz@HAWAII.EDU>
Re Corn's questions:
Mostly a lurker, the list lubricates me, usually early in the morning, with
coffee.
I "change my thinking" every three thousand miles, or every three months,
whichever comes first.
Others may be "points of light"--not quite a thousand--lit up on this chain-
fuse.
In the spirit of metaphor,
Keith Tuma
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 11:11:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
Willa,
I've always wanted to use the work fuck in a poem because it sounds so good.
But it doesn't really work on the page. Or I haven't figured out a good way
to use it. Anyone have a great fuck line?
I will use my favorite fuck swear in a sentence.
"You're a fuckstain."
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:02:11 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: JG others and us
tony green writes:
> I once had a mother-in-law who would say as a swear Sugar, but would
> also say when asked repeatedly what was for dinner: Shit with Sugar
> on. My favourite NZ adjective is "wretched" pronounced "ratshit.
> There's something awry with the time of postings from here, no sooner
> do I see my second favourite chook get on to a Renga, to wit, Foghorn
> Leghorn, when I nowhere see him now no more, incompany with a line
> that disappeared into oblivion. What is thees?
>
you know, i too have renga anxiety, in the sense that i've noticed that most of
the rengas i post a line on, w/ one exception, die immediately afterwards. this
is giving me a complex! like, am i really THAT bad a poet? esp since i notice
that the only one still extant that i have a line in is the one to which i
contributed a homophonous translation of mallarme --not even my "own" stuff.
what's a chook?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 19:30:24 BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "I.LIGHTMAN" <I.Lightman@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Larkin fucks again
Comments: To: POETICS@edu.buffalo.cc.UBVM
Larkin also wrote poems that commit to memory, viz the following, from
my own memory
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to but they do.
They hand on all the faults they had
And add some new ones, just for you.
But they were fucked up, in their turn,
By fools in old-style hats and coats
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
This poem seems to me no less mordant and bitter than a Kurt Cobain lyric,
yet I doubt he'll get called the names Larkin's getting called, though
both have a talent we may mock but may envy of memorability, a whole
piece staying in the mind, not necessarily because of an "internal logic"
such as Ron has brilliantly analysed in The New Sentence, but sometimes
wedding odd curiously-phrased line or noticed detail to each other, by
the power of knowing and feeling for an oral form committable to memory.
Plus, the use of the word "fuck" in this poem expertly connects
with the other uses of the word "fuck" in Larkin's small oeuvre, to
demonstrate a man in some ways blunted as a child and dealing with adults
and lovers in a trapped and unsensuous way because he has been made into
a rhythm; this is not to say he treated his lovers, or those he came into
contact with at Hull University Library, with brutality; it seems the
fact of his biography that he was gentle and polite with them (though
self-indulgent and morose with - often stupid - literary admirers), yet
could not enjoy this gentle rhythm, felt it always to be an act. This
still allows us a distinction between what his poems and letters may
reveal of an inner life, a brutal despair, a racism (expressed privately
and never mounted as a public act, such as refusing someone service or
employment - a racism of which many writers who never write racism happen
to practice) and how he acted. For Larkin's lovers there was such a
thing as a caress, for him it was unenjoyable, terrifying, not a fuck.
It seems to me that Clark Coolidge can do a terrific explosion
of the word fuck in his _Book of During_, yet in the end it remains less
interesting than Larkin's use of it, or just as. I get as annoyed reading
unbacked-up sniping at Larkin as others do hearing people be snobby about
pop music - is one saying that Larkin was wicked, that Larkin readers are
wicked, that it's corrupting, or what? Why either Larkin or Language
Poetry? Why not both?
Ira Lightman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:59:06 PST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Taylor <TOMT@CH1.CH.PDX.EDU>
Organization: PSU Cramer Hall
Subject: Shedding the Lurker Skin
I've been here a couple of weeks, lurking, as they say, and looking
over your shoulders. Nothing to persent myself with besides this:
tap tap. But now I have a lot of stuff up on the net, through John
Fowler's GRIST, and to further introduce myself, I invite you to my
stuff. You may or may not like it, but there's room for everyone
here, I think; my orientation is post. post language post modern
hopefully post apocalypse (we are in it). I am also collecting
material for a forthcoming project, The Vision Project (V GER), and
my smail is PO Box 216 Oysterville WA 98641. At GRIST are a
novella, Horndog; a long poetic aesthetic, The One, The Same, and The Other
(spectacular diseases & texture press 1993); a self-explanatory I
hope text, Superprose; and some other stuff. I welcome yr comments
and enjoy yr conversation, especially on the proprietary qualities of
sch wrds as yr, wd, sz, etc at neoOlsonisms, praps as economy as much
as borrowings.... et tu Rengamatic?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:03:25 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: engulping flames of remorse
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The caravan of windows to what they flee
These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
& opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
(inspection
denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
when the attorney general came, selah
hales said, "Dias, oh,ho, kook!" Edward Kennedy
Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco warehouse, curls
no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the
dry cleaners
piping hot and gloved-in somewhere unsalted, perched on
prescience
the chair is sad, alas, and i've lusted tootles' livers
the odor day toy a cello day dis chevys a bo coo daughter chose
encore
Flaubert because we're waiting all throughout eternity for
moments to be
of such suchness. In the nooks were creams and in the streams
were hooks.
All melded like striated film leftover in the pastel seeds of
darkness
composed with fetching strands, forwarding replies to deletion's
aviary.
That is our true memorial to Tic Douloureux. What is empery if
you can't
file your nails against a monarch? The veil of tears, swept away
with
the New Zealand lamb, nozzle out of control. Fired by
the Supervisor, Meats as "Nothing Without You" ambiently
croons. Lit ring around the panga, not
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:43:14 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9508131222.A539133147-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Aug 13, 95 12:12:44 pm
This is not fair! Some sneaky bastards are giving innocuous titles
such as "Your mail" to rengas! How can an honest person delete them
without looking if they're going to pretend to be something other
than renga?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:52:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
In-Reply-To: <199508130316.UAA11164@fraser.sfu.ca> from "Ryan Knighton" at Aug
12, 95 08:16:23 pm
I dont think anyone swears better than do the Australians. I like it
when they call someone (even me) a "pisswit."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:55:46 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
In-Reply-To: <302d3c196173002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> from "maria damon" at Aug 12,
95 06:41:15 pm
Has someone explained what AWP means?
I thought maybe Angry White Poets. Nah.
Anne Waldman People? Probly not.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:03:40 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: West Coast Line
In-Reply-To: <v01530500ac5283ff8706@[192.0.2.1]> from "Herb Levy" at Aug 12,
95 09:22:22 am
Re Herb's question abt the new ish of West Coast Line. Nope, I think
that the new issue is interesting all the way thru, but maybe that is
because I edited the thing. It is the all-Canuck issue. The next
issue is ed. by Peter Quartermain, and is the Brit issue. This one
just out has terrific bpNichol stuff, Erin Moure, section on Roy
Kiyooka, a weird series from Native woman named J.B.Joe, etc.
Best intro to CanLit I can imagine.
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 21:11:47 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
In-Reply-To: <199508150055.RAA20683@fraser.sfu.ca>
I'd always heard that AWP stood for Average White Poets, although around
the office it's usually Associated Weird Problems.
Gwyn,
at least one Anne Waldman Person in the office
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:13:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <9508120144.AA34636@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca> from "Louis Cabri" at
Aug 11, 95 07:44:20 pm
Hey, Charlie, what the hell were in those books?>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> kissing the weatherwoman between her breasts as she
> gives gracious problem: fanatical snacks, landscape of
> flicka my best friend and the storm in the glass of water's
> halfway pertinent incision we keep making safe for ignorance
> (inspection
> denied for not knowing how credenza was meant) & neo-colonizing
> pockets in small furniture intended house sequentially several
> mountains away but it wasn't, you know, a big tango
> when the attorney general came, selah hales said, "Dias, oh,ho,
> kook!"
> Edward Kennedy Ellington! "Tootin' Through the Roof" Tobacco
> warehouse, curls
> no ideas but the woven fabric the texture so to speak was at the
> dry cleaners
> having recovered from the chemicals of deadlines drop stitched
> into
> the ball Kevin Mitchell bare
> handed. Baseball sold
> out. cash stricken striked.
> Would that as a poet I had
> the chance to do something like
>
> grace the outfield, hands bare
> from ringing, washing scales
> of passion's conformity never
> minding a green surface, far
> cry from eternity, kitchen table
>
> bleached down, a firecracker
> cold as the buckles on my sandals
> as the wesleyans come in the room
> and hang up their robes and go
> down to the fellowship hall
>
> the garcia posological convention already underway
> platform sonneteers
> reminisce those hash oil crisis years
> when every squib seemed damp & colon slack:
> get real, ya doofuses, the Blob is back
>
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:15:07 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Favorite swears and Seventies-Speak
In-Reply-To: <950811204654_72363742@aol.com> from "Rod Smith" at Aug 11,
95 08:46:55 pm
When George Stanley came back from his stretch in the army, he kept
using what I took to be a southern expression" "Well, dog bite my
pecker!"
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:22:16 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: "marketing strategies"
> Thanks to Herb, Maria, Gwyn and Charles for there insights on "AWP"
> of course--if we want to prevent this discussion from lapsing into
Chris -
Thanks for the thanks, but I don't even know what AWP is, so if I talked
about it, it was by accident.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:26:48 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Mitchellmania, Harpermania
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950810104636.27421A-100000@uhunix3.its.Hawaii.Edu>
from "Susan Schultz" at Aug 10, 95 10:49:49 am
Nope, Ozzie Smith never played for the Giants. But he did play in
calif., for the Padres.