=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 01:33:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: you & what army
This talk is boring. Not WCW. Very few poets have done anything to rival
Asphodel. (I mean besides David Ayre.) Much less the work in Imaginations.
"All I said was:
there, you see, it is broken"
Next thing you'll be saying O'Hara's old hat.
"Either that or a bullet !"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 22:32:38 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
>Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 04:21:32 -0700
>From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
yow! (the elliptoided cadenza, not the header above)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 22:32:48 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
>Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:27:47 -0500
>From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
>Subject: Re: you & whose army?
>
>dear m: wcw "modernized" himself by not writing like keats. [keats'
generation wa
>s to wcw's what wcw's is to now. olson (born before WWI) lived in wcw's
world. w
>e don't. the century's nearly gone. should we still be listening to wcw? -e]
well sure but the fact that he always remained a very keatsian poet didn't
make him a(n even) less interesting poet (than you apparently find him).
Doan read no Keats no mo? (how is you spell po-ems, man?)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 22:32:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
>Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:30:16 -0500
>From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
>Subject: Re: you & whose army?
>
>dear m: actually, did teach spring & all last year, will do american grain
this.
> but am doing it to suggest certain transformations in ideas about poetry
and vi
>ew of the past that have yellowed, dated. american grain: very dated. -e
no doubt. Paterson, a whole lot less so (the Grosse Fugue, even less so, as
I think it was Schonberg more or less remarked)
reporting diarrheal disturbance w/o fear of economic reprisal....
been to hell in a boat yet?
hi to Bob Packard btw (?)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 22:32:58 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
>Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:32:00 -0500
>From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
>Subject: Re: you & whose army?
>
>burt: you can't make wine from grain. anyway, what's this fear of leaving
wcw be
>hind? or at least leaving him in the classroom? i have a feeling that of
that tr
>io--ep, hd, wce--it's hd (of trilogy) who offers most now. -ed
exfoliate you must?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 22:33:03 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
>Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:56:51 -0500
>From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
>Subject: Re: you & why an army?
>
>ed & jeffrey: does this mean that reading keats is absolutely out of the
>question. Or, given the postmodern pastiche of time, should we read wcw as
>keats would have read him? just as long as neither has to be filtered
>through renga.
>
>charles
well, you have just entered the koan bizniz. really lovely to contemplate
(what you said, not you in the koan biz, though that too)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 07:02:48 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: WCW and whose army
Our reading of the literature of the past is continuously refracted through the
prism of the present. But it's the necessary business - right in between the
sclerosis of the national heritage theme park, on the one hand, and the
instantaneous amnesia of MTV culture on the other.
WCW still feels like an outsider to me. I was told recently by someone brought
up in Paterson, NJ, that he was never taught Williams in English class, and
never heard about him until after he left school.
ain't nobody here but us white chickens
beside the red wheel
barrow
glazed with rain
water
upon which so much
depends
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 04:18:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Koan Bidness
What is the sound of three lines flapping?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 08:04:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "CAROLYN L. FORCHE-MATTISON" <cforchem@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: list poets in the Post
In this morning's Washington Post, Mark Wallace beautifully rebuts
the pompous Jonathan Yardley's attack on poets/writers/teaching/arts
money [which appeared in last Sunday's "Outlook" secton, usually
reserved for inside-the-beltway blather], and manages also to invoke
(among others) Charles Bernstein, Robert Creeley, Susan Howe, and
Bernadette Mayer, as well as contribute an astute reality check on
the survival strategies of most working artists. If you are out there,
Mark, bravo!
--Carolyn Forche
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 09:46:16 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Ranting on St Marks
For some time now I have wanted to buy a book by Zukofsky who I first heard
of on this list. A friend suggested St Marks as the best bookstore to find
him in. I called them up and was told they had a large selection. Fine I
said to myself, I'll go over there later tonight and spend some time
browsing.
I go to St Marks occasionally. Not enough to remember where everything is
located. However I found the poetry section and then I found the end of the
poetry section, where the X, Y's and Z's are. It runs into poetry
anthologies I believe. No Zukofsky from what I could see. So I asked the
grey-haired bearded man at the desk where I could find Zukofsky. "In the
poetry section," he growled. I tried again. Then I walked to the front of
the store to see if someone at the front desk could help me. No, it
appeared that guy was engaged in ringing up purchases.
So I said to myself fuck it, that guy should do his bloody job and help me.
I went to the desk again. I asked the bearded grouch in a polite voice if
he wouldn't mind checking his computer to see if any Zukofsky was in stock.
"Oh, for Christ sake," he said as he got violently up from his desk and
marched to the poetry section two feet away, "Just check the rack." Which
he did. Then he said, "We're out of stock." Which is what I thought but
wanted to be sure I hadn't missed anything. "When will you have him back in
stock?" I asked. "Not for a long time," he said.
At which point I had had enough, "When I called this afternoon I was told
you had all of Zukofsky on the shelves."
"We never carry all of Zukofsky," he said.
"Well!" I shrugged, threw up my hands and walked out in a silent rage.
On the way home I stopped in at the Barnes and Noble in my neighborhood and
picked up a copy of "A". No stress and no bad vibes. Simple, easy, polite.
Maybe the grey-haired bearded guy was having a hard day's night, I don't
know. But he put me off entirely. His attitude was rude, angry, ugly and
degrading.
Rather than compare St Marks to Barnes and Noble which is unfair because
they are in two different leagues, let me compare St Marks, with say, The
Gotham Book Mart. Now here is a bookstore that has never been anything but
polite, helpful and friendly to me. It is a bookstore I have used far more
than St Marks and will continue to do so. It has a literary history that
blows St Marks right off the map, with manners and sophistication to boot.
Never mind that things are slightly jumbled and out of order. Chalk it up
to charm.
By the way,from the little I read last night Zukofsky is engaging, and I am
sure that is the least of it.
A question. I believe Zukofsky wrote something about Shakespeare. A
critical essay or perhaps a book. Does anyone have the title and/or know
anything about it?
Take care
Blair
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 09:58:26 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
In-Reply-To: <9509151128.aa11913@post.demon.co.uk>
On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, cris cheek, savage editor, wrote:
> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> [savage edit]
> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 10:05:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: list poets in the Post
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950916075914.20129B-100000@osf1.gmu.edu>
Mark, please post your rebuttal to yardley on the list. Many thanks and
warm regards. (Thanks to Carolyn for telling us about it.)
Jorge.
On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, CAROLYN L. FORCHE-MATTISON wrote:
> In this morning's Washington Post, Mark Wallace beautifully rebuts
> the pompous Jonathan Yardley's attack on poets/writers/teaching/arts
> money [which appeared in last Sunday's "Outlook" secton, usually
> reserved for inside-the-beltway blather], and manages also to invoke
> (among others) Charles Bernstein, Robert Creeley, Susan Howe, and
> Bernadette Mayer, as well as contribute an astute reality check on
> the survival strategies of most working artists. If you are out there,
> Mark, bravo!
>
> --Carolyn Forche
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 10:25:13 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & whose army?
ed, you mean that hd of the three is most relevant (out of the trio: ep, hd,
wcw) beccause of her poetics or because she is the least picked over
("And I come after, glenynge here and there.
And am ful glad if I may fynde an ere
Of any goodly word that they [other poets] han left.")
bk
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 10:26:09 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & whose army?
ed,
sorry i left it out: the lines are from Chaucer in the Prologue to the Legend
of Good Women.
burt
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 08:41:24 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
On the 16th, Jorge wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, cris cheek wrote:
>
>> >>AS PROMISED
>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> (...)
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 09:10:59 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Zukofsky: On Shakespeare
Blair Seagram asks:
>A question. I believe Zukofsky wrote something about Shakespeare. A
>critical essay or perhaps a book. Does anyone have the title and/or know
>anything about it?
>
Louis Zukofsky's book "Bottom: On Shakespeare" was reissued by U of Cal
Press a few years ago, I think this edition is still in print.
This edition reissues only volume one of the original text. Volume two was
Celia Zukofsky's musical setting of Shakespeare's play "Pericles, Prince of
Tyre." LZ writes somewhere that CZ's rhythmic notation of Shakespeare's
text in this setting makes clear the ideas about Shakespeare he was writing
about. But then LZ also wrote that this dense and entertaining book could
be reduced to the logical formula <love is to reason as eyes are to mind>.
There's a lot more there, regardless of how relevant it is to these thesis.
In any case, even those of us who read music might quibble about the
discursive quality of CZ's music here. It isn't clear to me, at least, how
to get LZ's ideas about Shakespeare, Aristotle, Spinoza, & Wittgenstein
from CZ's use of, say, dotted quarter notes.
That said, CZ's music seems to be pretty. As far as I know the setting was
never performed.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 12:49:08 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Reading in S.F.
Announcement:
-------------------------
R E A D I N G
-------------------------
Loss Pequen~o Glazier reading in S.F. with Steven Shaviro on Saturday,
Oct. 21, 8 pm at New Langton Arts, 1246 Folsom Street. Also I will be
doing a discussion on the ELECTRONIC POETRY CENTER and Shaviro will be
presenting on his online _Doom Patrols_.
-------------------------
Sponsored by Small Press
Traffic/Small Press Partner
Series with many thanks to
Dodie Bellamy!
-------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 15:04:25 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <199509161541.IAA14460@bob.indirect.com>
SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/16/95
in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> (...)
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 19:59:58 EDT
Reply-To: beard@metdp1.met.co.nz
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: beard@MET.CO.NZ
Subject: Re: Ranting on St Marks
>For some time now I have wanted to buy a book by Zukofsky who I first heard
>of on this list. A friend suggested St Marks as the best bookstore to find
>him in. I called them up and was told they had a large selection.
Nice to have a bookshop that's even _heard_ of Zukofsky!
Tom Beard.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 23:16:15 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/16/95
>
>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> (...)
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 23:16:21 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
>On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, jorge guitart, the savage seconder, wrote:
>
>> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> [savage edit]
>> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
>> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
>> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
>> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
>> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
>> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
>> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
>> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
> with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
fishing around with like with like and let it get too cold, "Hey,
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 20:01:17 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <9509162307.aa05738@post.demon.co.uk>
> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/16/95 J adding to C
in the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
& where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop's stigmata
this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
the night I told you to stop referring to me as Ontology Boy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 20:12:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
In-Reply-To: <9509162307.aa05767@post.demon.co.uk>
Chris Cheek, the Noble Savage, wrote
> >> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> [savage edit]
> >> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
> >> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
> >> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
> >> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
> >> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
> >> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
> >> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
> >> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
> > with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
> fishing around with like with like and let it get too cold, "Hey,
tell us apart" "Don't be saussure, tracy". "The name is trace, pal"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 21:16:49 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Mark of Yardbird
In-Reply-To: <199509170356.UAA02632@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Mark -- can I get xerox of your _Post_ post & Yardley excresence? If you
don't have copies, give me dates so I can look up in library --
You may not recall ten years back when Yardley wrote a columnular whatsit
advocating the end of all poetry reviewing in the _Post_ (which never
amounted to much in any event)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 23:28:57 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: St. Marks (RIP?)
>Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 09:46:16 -0800
>From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
>Subject: Ranting on St Marks
>
>For some time now I have wanted to buy a book by Zukofsky who I first heard
>of on this list. A friend suggested St Marks as the best bookstore to find
>him in. I called them up and was told they had a large selection. Fine I
>said to myself, I'll go over there later tonight and spend some time
>browsing.......
too bad about St. Marks. There was a period in the eighties when it was
just amazing: small stock, but nothing you didn't want to buy & read; lots
of stuff not available or not prominently displayed in much bigger bookstores.
MIght be worth one more try before writing off. Actually I always found
Gotham kind of fustian and annoying....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 01:05:32 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 00:24:27 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <9509170705.AA48166@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca> from "Louis Cabri" at
Sep 17, 95 01:05:32 am
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 00:38:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Zuk
In-Reply-To: <v01510100ac809de6212c@[166.84.196.62]> from "Blair Seagram" at
Sep 16, 95 09:46:16 am
Blair: you must mean the monumental _Bottom: on Shakespeare_. It
dribbled out in the Fifties. He wrote it from 1947 to 1960.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 00:46:32 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: WCW and whose army
In-Reply-To: <950916110248_100344.2546_EHQ65-1@CompuServe.COM> from "Ken
Edwards" at Sep 16, 95 07:02:48 am
When I visited The Cloisters I asked the young woman behind the desk
why they didnt have copies of _Paterson V_ for sale. She said what
was that. I said a poem by William Carlos Williams, which causes
people such as myself, from the oppositer coast, to visit The
Cloisters. He's your great poet, I said. Never heard of him, she
said. She shda been working at St Mark's.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 00:51:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199509160532.WAA14654@web.azstarnet.com> from "Tenney Nathanson"
at Sep 15, 95 10:32:58 pm
Oh my God! Are people still reading HD's _Trilogy_?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 01:03:00 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Renga permissions
In-Reply-To: <2E272C013E@fagan.uncg.edu> from "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" at Sep 15,
95 08:17:13 am
On May 11, 1995, at the Shenanigans pub, George Stanley said to me:
"If that BuffNet is such hot stuff, why dont you see whether you can
get them to compose a renga or two?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:05:45 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: Jonathan Yardley
When I first moved here, Jonathan Yardley was book-page editor for
what was then the Greensboro Daily News. He admitted repeatedly that
he simply could not read and did not understand poetry. In other
respects he was too intelligent and liberal-minded for some of his
readers.
Jon was especially enthusiastic about sports books. I once had a bad
dream in which he asked me to review a three volume autobiography of
Joe Garigiola, whose name I cannot spell, handing me a heavy volume
titled THE EARLY YEARS.
I am afraid that he has felt put down for years by refined literary
types and feels that poetry is almost pure pretense. I am afraid not
much can be done about it. When McDonald's serves quiche maybe
Yardley will like poetry.
Tom Kirby-Smith
English Department
UNC-Greensboro
Greensboro NC 27412
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:34:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <9509170705.AA48166@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> Paterson lies to her in Passaic about the plums
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:37:09 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509170724.HAA09873@fraser.sfu.ca>
On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:27:25 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Brian McHale <BMCH@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zukofsky: On Shakespeare
In-Reply-To: Message of 09/16/95 at 09:10:59 from herb@ESKIMO.COM
An addendum to Herb Levy's information on Zukofsky's "Bottom: On Shakespeare":
The California edition he mentions was being offered by the Scholar's Book-
shelf, the mail-order remainder house, very cheap, last year, & it may still
be available from them. (I bought one.)
Brian McHale
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:30:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: Renga permissions
George Bowering writes:
>On May 11, 1995, at the Shenanigans pub, George Stanley said to me:
>"If that BuffNet is such hot stuff, why dont you see whether you can
>get them to compose a renga or two?"
Hey, after the responsible parties get those babies archived and ready for
browsing, let's see if we can lose George in them. Bet we can...
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:36:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LZ & bookshop vagaries
Sad to say, but the only store here in Sacramento to carry any LZ is Barnes &
Noble; they've had _A_ on the shelf for almost a year. They're also the only
store here to have carried Susan Howe's _Non-Conformist's Memorial_ & Michael
Palmer's _At Passages_. Hate to support 'em, but . . .
Sobin's _Breath
Burials_ & Joris' Celan translations weren't to be found anywhere in Sac or
Berkeley (Cody's does stock the Talisman _Selected_) & I had to special order
them (just came in yesterday). What gives?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:26:37 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Mark of Yardbird
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950916211423.9130B-100000@athens>
I would like to see a copy on the list, too.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg No ideas but in things.
University Writing Program --W.C. Williams
Duke University
Durham, NC 27708 No ideas in things, either.
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --John Ashbery
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:53:12 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: fyi
From: MX%"SHARP-L@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU" 17-SEP-1995 16:35:47.79
To: MX%"SHARP-L@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU"
CC:
Subj: 1995 Symposium of the Ephemera Society of America
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:36:07 -0400
Reply-To: "SHARP-L Society for the History of Authorship, Reading &
Publishing" <SHARP-L@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
From: Brett Charbeneau <BRETT@CWF.ORG>
Subject: 1995 Symposium of the Ephemera Society of America
Comments: To: Book_Arts-L@listserv.syr.edu, eram-l@kentvm.kent.edu,
va-hist@leo.vsla.edu, exlibris@rutvm1.rutgers.edu,
h-south@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU, ieahcnet@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU,
letpress@unbvm1.csd.unb.ca, museum-l@unmvma.unm.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list SHARP-L <SHARP-L@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
This announcement has been cross-posted to several lists
- our apologies if you received multile copies!
***** URGENT: Please respond by September 19th!! *****
5th Annual North American Symposium
of the
Ephemera Society of America
at Colonial Williamsburg
Williamsburg, VA
October 20-21, 1995
EPHEMERA: anything short-lived or transitory
The Ephemera Society of America is an organization committed
to the study of often-overlooked but culturally rich objects such
as lottery tickets, newspapers, trade cards, and travel literature
- to name but a few. The annual symposiums of the society focus on
a main theme and include lecture sessions as well as activities
devoted to the study, discussion, and illumination of pieces of
ephemera as material culture.
The society will hold its 1995 symposium in historical
Colonial Williamsburg, in Virginia, with the theme ``Job Printing
in America''. Speakers from organization such as the American
Antiquarian Society, Library Company of Philadelphia, Yale
University, and Colonial Williamsburg will speak on topics ranging
from pre-1800 Virginia Ephemera, Benjamin Franklin's job printing,
chromolithography and the cigar label, and architectural vignettes
on commercial stationary.
The event will feature a special torch-lit reception at
Colonial Williamsburg's eighteenth-century Printing Office by the
tradesmen who have dedicated their lives to the accurate recreation
of the book arts trades of colonial America. A demonstration of
papermaking, hand-press operation, bookbinding and gold tooling,
and the production of decorative papers will be held and symposium
attendees will have the opportunity to try some of these activities
first hand.
***** URGENT: Please respond by September 19th!! *****
Registration fee: $150 ($250 for couples). This includes a
year-long pass to all of Colonial Williamsburg's many museums,
programs, and demonstrations, six formal lectures, tours of the CW
library and other historic sites of interest, and a banquet dinner
at the Williamsburg Woodlands hotel.
For more information, sent email to BRETT@CWF.ORG, or call
518-674-2673.
Brett Charbeneau, Journeyman Printer P.O. Box 1776-GHW
Williamsburg Imprints Program Williamsburg, VA 23187
Colonial Williamsburg Foundation Tel: (804) 229-1000
INTERNET: BRETT@CWF.ORG FAX: (804) 220-7357
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:30:56 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: finding Zukofsky
On Saturday 16 September Tom Beard wrote:
Nice to have a bookshop that's even _heard_ of Zukofsky!
Yes Tom, I guess it is good to have a bookstore who has heard of Zukofsky.
It's also fine to be part of a list that discusses him. And I thank Herb
Levy for his most informative post.
I wonder how many other bookstores in New York carry Zukofsky? We know
Barnes & Noble does.
Perhaps if I had worded my inquiry at St Marks something along the lines,
"I called this afternoon and was told you had a selection of Zukofsky in
stock, but I can't seem to find him in the poetry section under Z," the
whole incident would have proceeded rather differently.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:58:02 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509171339.B540642708-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Sep 17, 95 01:37:09 pm
>
> On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
>
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> > Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> > But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> > For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> > Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> > Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> > feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> > was the coarsest in Dorset, the coast sky lowering
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:59:08 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/16/95
>
>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> (...)
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:00:27 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/16/95
>>
>>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>>> >> >>> >> (...)
>>> >> >>> >>
>>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:01:59 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/16/95 J adding to C
>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
>spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>& where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop's stigmata
>this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
>the night I told you to stop referring to me as Ontology Boy
and you replied all shrouded in epistemology that it was glue we lacked
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:02:24 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Jonathan Yardley
In-Reply-To: <5EFC2403E0@fagan.uncg.edu> from "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" at Sep 17,
95 09:05:45 am
Hey, in Vancouver, McDonald's DOES serve quiche. And you can get
little action figures of poets. This week you can get Bruce Andrews,
Norma Cole, Steve Mccaffery and Aram Saroyan.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:10:55 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
>
>> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:00:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: LZ & bookshop vagaries
Charles Smith muses:
>Sad to say, but the only store here in Sacramento to carry any LZ is Barnes &
>Noble; they've had _A_ on the shelf for almost a year. They're also the only
>store here to have carried Susan Howe's _Non-Conformist's Memorial_ & Michael
>Palmer's _At Passages_. Hate to support 'em, but . . .
> Sobin's _Breath
>Burials_ & Joris' Celan translations weren't to be found anywhere in Sac or
>Berkeley (Cody's does stock the Talisman _Selected_) & I had to special order
>them (just came in yesterday). What gives?
Bookstores are just as chickenshit as commercial radio stations, that's
what. They won't carry anything unless someone can guarantee them X amount
of sales, and they won't take any chances without that guarantee. Poetry,
of all types but always especially that poetry considered "avant-garde" or
"experimental", has proven remarkably ineffective as a consumer good, since
you can't just consume it and move on (you have to live and grow with it),
so it doesn't fit well into the marketing schema. Look for this trend to
get worse over the next few years, as wealth further concentrates in the
hands of fewer and fewer and bigger and bigger corporations.
btw, I got my Joris Celan translation at City Lights, but even that store
doesn't seem to be as good as it used to be.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:26:24 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Benson address
Tony,
I don't have Benson's address but someone on this list must. I will go to
the ear but have not put hours of work in. Jeff Hull did the schedule which
I forwarded to the list. You can email him at:
harbor_rat@aol.com
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:16:00 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
oN Sep 15 Jorge Guitart wrote:
On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:57:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: milk
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:02:24 -0700
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Jonathan Yardley
Hey, in Vancouver, McDonald's DOES serve quiche. And you can get
little action figures of poets. This week you can get Bruce Andrews,
Norma Cole, Steve Mccaffery and Aram Saroyan.
In 1983, when I went to Rochester to teach for a year (but place is
obliterated) I went into a McDonald's, this was along about when one heard
that the shakes were 100% plastic, and the placemat on the tray tole me the
shakes were "made w real milk." Only Real was capitalized & had a TM sign
appended to it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 02:28:17 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Bruce Andrews Barbie Doll
You wrote:
>
>Hey, in Vancouver, McDonald's DOES serve quiche. And you can get
>little action figures of poets. This week you can get Bruce Andrews,
>Norma Cole, Steve Mccaffery and Aram Saroyan.
>
One can only envision (in horror) what a Bruce Andrews action toy would
DO...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:23:17 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Benson address
Sorry, trashed the name of the searcher:
Steve Benson
507 Coteskill Road
Stone Ridge
NY 12484
don't know how long it'll take to reach you. There does seem to be a
protracted time lag much of the time.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:23:26 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Cris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 18/9/95 C adding to S
>>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
>>spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>>that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>>say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>>than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>>go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>>& where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>>ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>>from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>>ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop's stigmata
>>this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>>detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>>I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
>>the night I told you to stop referring to me as Ontology Boy
>and you replied all shrouded in epistemology that it was glue we lacked
"ckab oups frert cdl-fdl!!" with elvis projecting "uhhhh, I'm all stuck
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:17:52 -0400
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From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: jonathan yardley
I appreciate the interest several of you have taken on the list, or
backchannel, on my letter rebutting Jonathan Yardley. Regarding Jorge's
request to post the letter, the letter itself does not provide that much
information that an audience like this on the poetics list needs--the
points it makes would be for you all pretty much obvious.
I will say this: Yardley's argument is threefold; there are no good
writers of literature in the U.S. right now. This is true because writers
have no interest in audiences. They have no interest in audiences because
their large academic salaries and huge arts subsidies make them
self-indulgent.
It is, of course, an argument typical of the desire to undermine arts
funding here in D.C.
The last paragraph of my letter reads as follows:
The problem with Yardley is that he ignores literary culture on
the one hand and attacks it on the other. He is thus a perfect example of
the isolated, institutionalized writer he pretends to disdain,
responsible to a paycheck that comes not from any audience but from a
powerful media conglomerate. He is a critic who attacks what he doesn't
understand.
Thanks again to Carolyn, Jorge and others for their interest.
mark wallace
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:45:25 -0700
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From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: hearing Zukofsky
In the course of some back channel correspondence with Blair Seagram re:
Zukofsky I remembered hearing about multi-voice performances of "A"-24 with
the Handel music either in San Francisco or Vancouver (or both).
Does anyone have corroborating information about this? If the
performance(s) did occur, were they taped?
&, yes, I remember my earlier posts regarding non-commercial recordings, etc.
Bests
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:48:18 CST6CDT
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From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: hearing Zukofsky
As a follow up to Herb's request for info--anyone know of audio or
video recordings of Zukofsky? How I might listen/watch? I'll be
teaching Zukofsky later this semester & would like to share his
reading of some poems with the class. Thanks.
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:05:59 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Bruce Andrews Barbie Doll
>>One can only envision (in horror) what a Bruce Andrews
>>action toy would DO...
A Bruce Andrews action toy would of course come with a detachable ordnance
harnessing mass linguistic destruction capability unit.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:22:32 EST
Reply-To: dgolumbia@iddis.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Golumbia <GOLUMBIA@IDDIS.IDDIS.COM>
Subject: Re: finding Zukofsky
St. Marks used to be better than it is. Gotham's more than a bit
hostile to L. poetry, except as it relates to Black Mountain, etc.
schools (seems to me).
But on the plus side, the Upper West Side Shakespeare & Co. actually
had (has?) the Joris Celan *on display*!
And on a trip to Philadelphia a couple of days ago, Borders had: two
Coolidge, three Hejinian (I picked up THE CELL, which I find perfect),
one each of Raworth, Perelman, S. Howe, R. Waldrop, Jabes, etc.
Admittedly all Sun & Moon (but for the Perelman?), but still very
nice. Although their journal selection's gone down, whereas the Upper
West Side Papyrus had not only DENVER QUARTERLY & NEW AMERICAN
WRITING but also LINGO & the Watten issue of AERIAL.
So while it could be better, it seems to me, it could also be a LOT
worse ...
--
dgolumbia@iddis.com
David Golumbia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:12:18 -0500
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & whose army?
there wasn't enough, herb, it was a glaze.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:11:10 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & why an army?
charles: i'm not sure that "postmodern pastiche of time" has the interest/use it did a few years ago, but that's another issue. as to the other: reading wcw (or keats) is not out of the question; but wcw is like trolley cars: a different world.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:31:37 -0700
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From: Graham John Sharpe <gsharpe@SFU.CA>
Subject: Pergolesi
while the music chatter which has been on the list has generally
concerned itself with Hole and other fine artists, i thot there might
be a classical enthusiast out there who can help me place Pergolesi.
After seeing Baryshnikov's *White Oak Dance Project* the other night
i'm desperate to know if one would consider Pergolesi to be Baroque.
i suppose it depends on how you define Baroque.
Deleuze calls Baroque music "what can extract harmony from melody"
but having taken drama class over music class in my early
years, this is lost on me.
any takers?
cause my Amadeus Soundtrack booklet
doesnt help me much.
unmusically yours,
g-sharpe
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:25:40 -0500
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
various things, jeffery, too much for here, but at least (1) unpack wcw's rhetoric: it trivializes much poetry. wcw "clarity" entails doing less, not better. (2) let's retire "avant-garde." see jackson mac low on this. it's a military line. -ed
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:28:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
as for emerson in wcw, yes, but reduced somewhat. thoreau, perhaps, in quality of attention. but rimbaud is the key, tho when he reached his paterson, he dealt in guns (true avant-garde) not medicine. wcw is less "american" than he'd think.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:32:44 -0500
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
can't agree re: paterson; it's been bulldozed, urban renewal; wcw's city isn't any more than small new england towns, where bob is. oh, the envy. probably has a boat, too (it's maine), tho not rimbaud's. ya, wcw should've stayed there! -ed
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:35:58 -0500
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & what army
now, it's asphodel! oh, lord, that's a tiresome poem, but such a grand gesture when you've spent your life cheating on the one you praise. talk about mending fences. too bad wcw wasn't catholic; the priest would've told him ya gotta do more.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:45:01 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & whose army?
no, burt, nothing to do with relevance, nothing to do with being picked over.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:42:38 -0500
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & whose army?
ya still can't do it, burt, tho i recommend a good porter (ron porter?); we've been working on it, and we'll thro in a grape or two, for you. so how's the technology biz?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:31:46 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yardarms, etc.
In-Reply-To: <199509180357.UAA25747@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
hadn't known about Yardley's previous incarnation yet farther south -- in
recent years he has sprouted an esitional, editorial column in addition
to his book review page -- and both are increasingly given to neocon
drivel of the most uninformed sort -- it's particularly depressing to
find a long-time book pager so freqently making negative remarks about
books he has not read -- It's one thing to profess an inability to "get"
a particular genre (as I, for example, just don't get grunge -- find it,
in fact, not that grungy) -- another thing to, as Yardley did (and David
McAleavey did write a letter to the editor which was actually published
explaining just what was found wanting in Mr, Y's logic at the time!) use
such powers as a page columnist has to promote the idea that "nobody"
knows what's good in poetry anymore (sound familiar? a bit corny,
prehaps?) and that we'd all be better off just ignoring the stuff --
"esitional"?? try additional--
This was shortly after the LA Times had abandoned poetry reviewing, but
they did begin to publish a poem in each week's book review, and have
now, with no mention of their curious earlier editorial position,
returned to the reviewing of verse --
My one and only experience reviewing poetry for the _WAsh Post__ wasn't
encouraging -- they asked me to review books by Dove and Bronk -- which I
did -- they then typoed a line in the Dove review so that instead of her
line mentioning "gum popping" girls it read "gun popping" -- despite the
fact that they had changed my correct copy, the POST printed no
correction -- can't help wondering if the proof-reading gnomes at the
POST would have let such an error through if the line had made reference
to young white girls -- maybe I'm paranoid, but my old colleague Sterling
Brown used to tell his students "any black man who isn't paranoid is crazy!"
I have ever since dreaded meeting Ms. Dove for fear she will remember
this and think it my mistake --
Yardley loves the work of Peter Taylor, with reason, and despises the
likes of Don DeLillo, Joseph McElroy, etc. -- seems there is much he
can't read --
I hereby volunteer to write a weekly review for the _Washington Post_ at
half Yardley's salary --
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:15:35 -0500
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From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: hearing Zukofsky
hank: how about the NET (c. 1965) program on z. i figure sf state has a tape of it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:57:48 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <199509180059.RAA16467@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
> >
> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> (...)
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:00:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <199509180100.SAA16499@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
> >>
> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> >>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >>> >> >>> >> (...)
> >>> >> >>> >>
> >>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
> earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:31:06 -0700
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From: Charles Watts <cwatts@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: hearing Zukofsky
In-Reply-To: <5FF77F06EA7@as.ua.edu> from "Hank Lazer" at Sep 18,
95 09:48:18 am
I know of two recordings of Zukofsky that are commercially available,
Hank. One is a video recording, from the NET Outtake series from _USA:
Poetry_, produced by KQED in San Francisco 1965-66. It includes parts of
"A"-9, a section from "Catullus," a discussion of James Joyce, Whitman,
Pound and Bunting; I've seen it -- shown it at the Western Front here in
Vancouver -- it's wonderful; it's a half hour on 3/4" video, available
from The American Poetry Archives, The Poetry Center, San Francisco State
University, 1600 Holloway Ave., San Francisco CA 94132, tel (415)
338-1056. The tape is available for sale at $125 plus shipping & tax; or
for rent at $15 per public showing + shipping & tax.
There's also an audio tape from Spoken Arts, Inc., in the "Spoken Arts
Treasury of American Jewish Poets Reading Their Poems." The tape with
Zukofsky on it is Volume II, and also features Lenore Marshall, Stanley
Kunitz, Hy Sobiloff, and Karl Shapiro. Zukofsky reads "A"-12, "Spooks
Sabbath," "Songs of Degree," "Nor Did the Prophet," "As to How Much," "An
Incident," "The Record," "Song 22," and "Mantis." Write to Spoken Arts,
Inc., Box 289, New Rochelle, NY 10801. I don't know how much, but it's a
cassette tape; I doubt it's much.
Herb, a Vancouver group called the Cassation Group did some performances
of "A"-24 in the late eighties both here at SFU and at the Western Front.
So far as I know, it wasn't recorded at SFU unless the group did it
themselves; but may have been recorded at the Front; I'll try to check.
Ron, didn't a group including Barrett Watten do a performance in SF?
Best,
Charles Watts
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:49:15 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: you & why an army?
In-Reply-To: <01HVF5XCLVTE8WZ2H8@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU> from "Edward Foster"
at Sep 18, 95 12:11:10 pm
I still dont get Foster's point. Why is WCW dissed as boring because
he lived in an earlier time? Like, when do we cut poets off our
reading list? When trolley cars were no longer? 30 years after the
poet's death? Does a middling poet get points up because she can fog
a mirror with breath? I'm going thru my Earlier Collected Poems and
updating Williams's poems now. I have him driving a 1989 Toyota
Tercel.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:04:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509180616.XAA29178@well.com> from "Thomas Bell" at Sep 17,
95 11:16:00 pm
On sep 18 Hortense Callisher wrote:>
> oN Sep 15 Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
glowering from yon poetry magazine, fish on their breath,
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:06:21 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: St Marks not dead yet
On Saturday 16 September, Tenney Nathanson wrote:
too bad about St. Marks. There was a period in the eighties when it was
just amazing: small stock, but nothing you didn't want to buy & read; lots
of stuff not available or not prominently displayed in much bigger bookstores.
MIght be worth one more try before writing off. Actually I always found
Gotham kind of fustian and annoying....
Dear Tenney:
I may rant about St Marks Bookshop but it in no way means I will not
return, even though it may be some months before I do so. If, for instance,
I wanted a book by Bernadette Mayer, St Marks would be the first place I
would check, which may be a mark of my ignorance, I don't know.
That said, if I had been treated with a little more civility, I may have
stayed around, checked out, and possibly purchased other books in the
store, which would have benefited St Marks, the authors they carry, and me.
I should also mention that when St Marks was located around the corner, in
their old location, it felt better to be there. I congratulate them on
there expansion, but frankly, the new store doesn't grab me the way the old
one did.
Today I ordered "Bottom: on Shakespeare" from Gotham. They were quick on
the uptake, and I don't much feel like changing my position on them, but I
will say they did seem to rush me through my order. Maybe I had your
comment in mind.
Best wishes,
blair
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:14:28 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: typo on St Marks
I congratulate them on there expansion.
Whoops, that should be 'their' expansion
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:42:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David McAleavey <dmca@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yardarms, etc.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950918111705.17740A-100000@athens>
Al Nielsen is kind to recall my earlier response to Yardley's earlier
popping of his gums. I was tempted to go through the process again this
time, but finally was deterred by my recollecting that all the _Post_
cares about is agitating its readers -- I don't think it matters to them
what Yardley's opinions are; if he gets attention, he has won. Now if
Mark and I can only figure out a way to persuade the paper to send the guy
back to his roots, wherever they may be, maybe Al you _could_ join us back
here in this not-so-dull swamp!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:18:51 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: hearing Zukofsky
Let's see just how bad my memory is. Bob Perelman, I believe, produced
a series of performances of "A"-24 in 1978. Steve Benson and Carla
Harryman also participated. My visual memory tells me that one
performance was at the Grand Piano, the coffee house series I ran with
Tom Mandel, but others I believe were done at SF State and UC Davis. I
recall being struck that the performances were more inspired than the
score (but the theatrical in LZ--and CZ--has never been my meat:
"Rudens" strikes me as the weakest section of "A").
One thing worth noting: the use of Handel made it impossible to perform
the text "naturally" (it goes too slowly to be spoken), which brought
forward the constructed nature of the language.
It was, as they say, a revelation.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:22:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hearing Zukofsky
Herb,
A-24 was first performed, I believe, by Harryman, Watten, Hejinian and Kit
Robinson in the early 80s. I used to have a tape of it which I walk-personed
every day and night to learn the part of drama by heart. I believe Brad
Westbrook, the curator at the UCSD archive for new poetry, got me the tape.
Also, the SF State archive probably has a copy, as do the performing poets.
Anyway, he and I and two other folks (Becky Roberts & Chuck Cody) then
performed A-24, once to a piano at the Pannikin in Del Mar and once to a
harpsicard at Mandible Hall on campus, a few years after the high L-folks.
Again, Brad is probably the best source of a recording of those pieces, as I
appear to have lost my copies . . .
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:23:00 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: hearing Zukofsky
SF State has both audio and visual recordings. The visual ones are from
Dick Moore's Poetry USA series. It was via this PBS series that I first
heard of Zukofsky, was blown away (totally!) by him and rushed out to
buy anything I could find at Cody's--which proved only to be the Robert
Kelly/Paris Leary anthology (a pretty great book after all these
years!), which in turn led to my first reading of Mac Low and a serious
rethinking of Spicer (with a far better selection than in the Allen)
and O'Hara's Biotherm in the smallest font size ever.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:30:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: University at Buffalo
Subject: Distribution or Bust
One of the few rules on Poetics@UBVM is that participants (lurkers and not)
are requested to post news of their recent publications, together with
information on how best to get these items. It has come to my attention that
some of you are out-of-compliance with this "don't balk/must tell" rule. The
fuller the listings (table of contents, etc) the better. If you are a
publisher and editor and have new material on the EPC, it is still useful to
post it on Poetics as well, since many of the subscribers either don't have
Web access, don't use it, or don't check new listings. This is may also be a
way to compensate for the recurring distribution and bookstore problems
discussed here.
On Bookstores: Problem with the New York bookstores discussed here is that
even if they carry a new poetry book they rarely re-order, or re-order so
erratically that you can never count on finding a book, even a recent book, in
stock. This is why the sales rep system is so crucial, since the initial
order of a new book is ultimately the one that will determine if the book gets
any bookstore life in New York at all. So if you don't find a book, it's
possible that it was ordered and sold out; the books in stock are often the
ones that didn't sell. In the 70s and 80s, when I used to pester these stores
to carry specific books and magazines, I always felt getting shelf space was
like getting a gallery show; "naturally" places like Gotham and Books & Co.
felt having the books in the store was enough, they certainly didn't have to
pay you for what they sold too! (In my experience, St. Mark's always paid.
But they were the exception.) At the same time, the real estate costs in New
York are so high that it is _probably_ not possible to survive with the sort
of commitments to poetry many of us look for in a bookstore; I say probably
because people do manage to figure out how to do improbable things, as any
number of our alternative poetry institutions show.
I don't buy books in New York, preferring to buy direct from the publishers,
or from SPD, but most often from Talking Leaves Books (which in turn buys them
from SPD). Talking Leaves remains my favorite poetry bookshop and I have been
talking with the coop owners there about working directly with the Poetics
list and EPC: setting up accounts, taking order via e-mail, and so on. So you
should be hearing more about that soon (though as they are understaffed and
have limited access to computer technology that this is taking longer than
they would like). (In the meantime, they are happy to take orders by phone or
mail: 3158 Main Street, Buffalo, NY 14214; 716-837-8554; fax--837-3861.) As
has been noted by others on this list and off, bookstores like Talking Leaves
and Woodland Pattern are always in danger and need the same sort of support we
give to small presses and SPD and indeed other poets: we are all in it
together.
The Internet and the Web are becoming increasingly central for poetry
distribution, even if as yet many of the readers of the books often discussed
on this list are not on-line. At this point, I see one of the primary values
of the EPC and the Poetics List as facilitating the distribution of print
books and magazines rather than (not as opposed to) making work available
electronically. I see many parallels with the work I did on Segue's
distribution catalog in the 70s and 80s and the work on the EPC now. We can't
afford to have the Net "replacing" bookstores, publishers and distributors
that support new and "alternative" poetry: that would be a net loss, indeed.
We have to find way to use the Net to help these institutions survive. To
this end, listings and short reviews/discussions on Poetics of new work become
a mode of distribution.
About 15 years ago my continually new friend Cris Cheek prepared, on his
manual typewriter, an extensive list of UK small press publications, carefully
annotated with prices and address, issued as supplement #2 of L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E.
I'm reminded of that because the EPC and this list seem such a good place for
the sort of exchange of information and ideas among the UK, US, New Zealand,
Canada, and Australia. And while we talk about the lack of information
between N. American poets and U.K. poets, it's been my sense that at least in
the particular world represented by those of us "here" that, in a small way,
this is beginning to take care of itself just as we talk about it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:29:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Stephen Galen Cope <scope@UCSCB.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Distribution or Bust
ok, i'll follow the rules
If you are interested in receiving
DIU, send a subscription request
which says SUBSCRIBE DIU-L your name
to listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu
you'll be asked to confirm this request
detailed instructions are given
still performing via
the logic of snowflakes of given
season.
all DIU transmissions archived at the
Electronic Poetry Center on the University at Buffalo
Web-server: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ezines/diu
contribute to DIU via e-mail to cf2785@cnsvax.albany.edu
thank you!
-and-
'Only A Cage Should Be In A Cage' by H.D. Moe
is the most recent publication
from We Press available for $7 from
We Press
POBox 1503
Santa Cruz, CA 95061
(408) 427-9711
Thanks!
-Stephen Cope
ps- hope this isn't all repeat...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:57:57 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>oN Sep 15 Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
>On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>
>> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:06:58 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
> On sep 18 Hortense Callisher wrote:>
>> oN Sep 15 Jorge Guitart wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>glowering from yon poetry magazine, fish on their breath,
attachments lingering toward broadcast, all privacy a heavy (breathy) minus sign
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:08:59 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
>> >>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
>> >>
>> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>> >>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>> >>> >> >>> >> (...)
>> >>> >> >>> >>
>> >>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>> >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>> >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>> >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
>> hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
>> earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
therefore elemental-painted playthings cost a dear shined copper looking
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:08:48 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Yardarms, etc.
Posted on: America Online (using MAC)
D.G. wrote:
>And on a trip to Philadelphia a couple of days ago, Borders had: two
>Coolidge, three Hejinian (I picked up THE CELL, which I find perfect),
>one each of Raworth, Perelman, S. Howe, R. Waldrop, Jabes, etc.
Admittedly all Sun & Moon (but for the Perelman?), but still
>very
nice. A
I work in a store which carries pretty much everything in print by all of the
authors mentioned above (maybe not Coolidge, but we do have space
limitations, i.e. 12 of his books may be enough). By L.Z. we have Bottom, the
Collected Shorter, A, & L.Z.: Man & Poet. Borders buys in bulk, they made a
decision to sell SUN & MOON, not any of their authors. It's a question of one
person, in this case me, giving a damn & showing, over time, that poetry will
be supported when made available. The reason St Mark's isn't what they were
is they lost their small press buyer in '88. I'd still go there over Borders
or B.&N. no matter how grouchy the guy in the back is-- & I'm pretty sure
I've encountered him, similar vibe to the bartender at the Ear.
But are you REALLY a New Yorker if you're not creatively rude on a fairly
regular basis. Back to business-- I think it's increasingly clear the
corporations are winning-- we'll all be making $4.26 an hour soon enough.
Have to disagree w/ David M. about Yardley, he wrote:
>all the _Post_
cares about is agitating its readers -- I don't think it matters >to them
what Yardley's opinions are; if he gets attention, he >has won.
Of course you're right that they know he'll make some mainstream readers of
fiction/poetry mad, but I can't imagine them hiring say, Angela Davis, or
A.L. Nielsen for that matter, to write on literature just because they'd "get
attention."
For those curious abt the store mentioned above:
it's Bridge Street Books, 2814 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20007.
Ph-- 202 965 5200, e-mail orders to me.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:11:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
JG wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
>> >
>> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> (...)
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
>and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
for the brevity inferred and for the latchkey touch more like a feather
drizzling
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:17:52 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zuk et al
In-Reply-To: <199509190503.WAA01786@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Hank -- if you go for the _Treasury of American Jewish Poets_ get the whole
set --
it also includes Stein and Reznikoff on other tapes in the set -- well
worth having to listen to the likes of Hy Sobiloff to get to these! The
set was originally distributed by Spoken Arts Inc. -- but is also
available through other distribution agencies -- also worth your while is
the Watershed Oppen tape, circa 1979 -- some univ. libraries have these
tapes -- so look close to home before buying --
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:21:52 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: WCW Trolley
In-Reply-To: <199509190503.WAA01786@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
well, you may recall that the tracks were all ripped up by the tire
companies in conspiracy with GM -- & look where that has gotten us -- now
major cities everywhere are re-introducing the trolley -- just when you
thought it was good only for getting tourists from one quaint photo op to
another!
Not that you'd want to _live_ on a trolley -- but it will get you where
you need to go faster than you can say "Marianne Moore."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:44:21 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Dangerous poets?
In the 9/18 _New Yorker_ David Remnick asks (re: Ben
Bradlee) "Who is interested in a 'dangerous' editor?"
Dangerous here refers to not fitting in with the blandness
and sameness of co-opted commercial media. While
I do have my own thoughts on this, I would be interested
in thoughts on:
What is a "dangerous" poet?
Who is the last one we've had?
Has that person had an effect on the way we live (or don't live)?
Possibly also of some interest in re: _Post_ ?review?
Tom
tbjn@well.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:15:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Spike it
On Sep 18 Sheila Murphypemned
>oN Sep 15 Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
>On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>
>> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer
fractalized and enfolded into into times_The wraping ugly danger
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:16:08 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Pergolesi
In-Reply-To: <199509190507.GAA17149@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
I wonder who else has picked this up while I lay sleeping...
Pergolesi (1710-36) certainly lived at the time of "high baroque"
composition, and yes, he outlined chordal (harmonic) structures in his
melodies - but who doesn't? It's damned difficult not to. I'd say that the
way he stripped down the counterpoint (one of the defininging elements of,
say, Bach Handel or Scarlatti) to a bare minimum, and supported his tunes
with almost Phil Spector block harmony, places him closer to the early
classical composers.
Who in fact rated him very highly, years after his death. People tell me
that the claims made for his "Stabat Mater" are extravagant: but to hell
with them - there's a brooding, melodramatic religious depth in it which
I'm a sucker for, and which you don't get again until Mozart's big c minor
mass (also driven by Italian opera) at the end of the eighteenth century.
Of course, there's a lot of other stuff which doesn't fit that pattern -
early work (! in a very short career) and chamber music which are far more
run-of-the-mill. I seem to recall there are some concerti grossi which
have just been ascribed to him which Vivaldi would've killed for...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x x
x Richard Caddel, E-mail: R.I.Caddel @ durham.ac.uk x
x Durham University Library, Phone: 0191 374 3044 x
x Stockton Rd. Durham DH1 3LY Fax: 0191 374 7481 x
x x
x "Words! Pens are too light. Take a chisel to write." x
x - Basil Bunting x
x x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:56:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: publications/anagram
In-Reply-To: <01HVFRXVO4FO8XSTHT@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
AGAINST FORGETTING (the anthology) anagrams to "stinging a frog teat."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:22:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509180110.SAA16633@bob.indirect.com>
On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> >
> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:25:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509180616.XAA29178@well.com>
On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> oN Sep 15 Jorge Guitart wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
>
> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> > the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:32:34 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Cris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <9509181014.aa02092@post.demon.co.uk>
> >>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 19/9/95 J adding to C adding to S
> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
> >>spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >>that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >>say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >>than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >>go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >>& where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >>ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >>from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >>ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop's stigmata
> >>this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >>detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >>I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> >>the night I told you to stop referring to me as Ontology Boy
> >and you replied all shrouded in epistemology that it was glue we lacked
> "ckab oups frert cdl-fdl!!" with elvis projecting "uhhhh, I'm all stuck
>in the epoxy I used to cement my relationship w/ Thou, the Dead Quaker
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:43:47 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <199509190508.WAA21685@bob.indirect.com>
> >
> >> >>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/19/95 adding to S
> >> >>
> >> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> >> >>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> >>> >> (...)
> >> >>> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >> >>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >> >>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >> >>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >> >>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >> >>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >> >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >> >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >> >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >> >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >> >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> >> hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
> >> earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
> therefore elemental-painted playthings cost a dear shined copper looking
> for false grit and the dogma of autonomous syntaxis overwhelmed them
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:47:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <199509190511.WAA21875@bob.indirect.com>
> >> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/19/95 J adding to S
> >> >
> >> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> >> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >> >> >> >>> >> (...)
> >> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
> >and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
> for the brevity inferred and for the latchkey touch more like a feather
> drizzling blood of picklet beet all over the related phenomena
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:50:48 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spike it
In-Reply-To: <199509190615.XAA11161@well.com>
On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> On Sep 18 Sheila Murphypemned
>
> >oN Sep 15 Jorge Guitart wrote:
> >
> >On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> >
> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >> the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer
> fractalized and enfolded into into times_The wraping ugly danger
of anaphoric dependence in "Arthur the Rat", the half a dozen
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:32:30 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
ed,
couldn't you say just a few more words about how wcw's rhetoric trivializes
much poetry?
burt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:16:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Eryque Gleason <gleaeri@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Bookstores
Borders and B&N are sucking the life out of the other bookstores here in
chicago. In the last month, I think three independent stores and one chain
(Crock's & Bretano's) have gone under.
For almost anything I want, I go to 57th St. books and the Seminary Co-op.
Their selection of poetry isn't always the greatest, or evenly distributed
(two weeks ago I saw a shelf that had about ten different titles by for too
and about Ginsberg, one title by Ferlingetti), but they are always helpful
and have never taken more than nine days to deliver something I've ordered.
_____________________________________!________________________________________
Eryque "Just call me Eric" Gleason If I weren't a monkey, there'd
71 E. 32nd St. Box 949 be problems.
Chicago, IL 60616
(312) 808-6858
gleaeri@charlie.acc.iit.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:51:50 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Teachers & Writers <twrite@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509181847.C540657849-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
> > >>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
> > >>
> > >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> > >>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> > >>> >> >>> >> (...)
> > >>> >> >>> >>
> > >>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> > >>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> > >>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> > >>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> > >>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> > >>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> > >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> > >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> > >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> > >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> > >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> > >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> > hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
> > earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
>hive ravenous piers for tattle I teach you as previous
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:44:47 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Fred Muratori <fmm1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dangerous poets?
>
>What is a "dangerous" poet?
>>
>Tom
>tbjn@well.com
Good question, but probably not very relevant in the U.S., where writers
don't pose a real political or social threat the way they do in some other
countries. Poets here are dangerous only to other poets.
***********************
Fred Muratori "Certain themes are incurable."
(fmm1@cornell.edu) - Lyn Hejinian
Reference Services Division
Olin * Kroch * Uris Libraries
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
***********************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:23:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Distribution 'R' Us
Two short thoughts on distribution:
Even in a city without a store like Woodland Pattern, Talking Leaves,
Bridge Street, it still makes sense to find an independent local store and
order through them.
Any small book store needs the business, even if they don't specialize in
poetry. &, eventually, they will start to be more adventurous. Last week
when I went to order the Joris/Rothenberg anthology I was told "Oh, I
thought you'd want that when I saw it from the rep - I ordered a couple for
stock too." Granted they'll never have the depth or breadth of a specialty
shop, but they've learned that they can sell some things they didn't know
about before, & that's the only way independent book stores can stay in
business these days. & it beats going from Borders to Tower to Barnes &
Noble, trying to second-guess this week's corporate policies any day.
Another thing that can increase the distribution of "this kind of" poetry
is to make purchase requests at libraries.
They won't buy everything (& the selections can seem frustratingly
arbitrary), but library buyers are overwhelmed with options & frequently
just need an excuse to make a choice. If few people are requesting books
(&, even at academic libraries, most people don't), you could make a real
mark on a library's poetry collection. The University of Washington, where
I just have an alumni borrowers card buys two-thirds to three-quarters of
what I request, even though there's rarely any courses that deal with any
of it. If everyone on this list did this, it'd increase sales by a
significant number of copies & make the work available to lots more people
without costing anyone "here" anything but a little extra time once a month
or so.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:30:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: WCW Trolley
reintroduce trolleys? i don't know aldon; that sounds what we went thru w/ reagan. here in my sleazy hometown, they're reintroducing trolleys, and corps. are rushing over the river from n.y. no, the answer for the millenium is not: bring back wcw.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:24:30 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & why an army?
ummmm. . . well, doesn't it have to do with how you read whom you read? you can read bryant but as history; his words and language aren't ours. wcw is typewriters and trolleys. painters survived g. o'k. wcw is not gospel.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:41:14 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
i was referring to the passage quoted from wcw and suggesting that if you unpack it you find that it eliminates or questions ways of speaking--gnostic utterance for one. no? which irritates. a little too unitarian (?), or clarity thru elimination.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:54:09 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
specifically, burt: we are told the passage comes from wcw: ok, in that case, we have to ask, now, why "nature" [whatever that meant, then] should not be "an accessory to a particular theory," why not be "blind" to what wcw called "the world"?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:05:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: or or (the or or!? the or or!?)
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:14:28 -0800
>From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
>Subject: typo on St Marks
>
> I congratulate them on there expansion.
>
>Whoops, that should be 'their' expansion
or "that there"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:16:26 +0200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "W. Northcutt" <William.Northcutt@UNI-BAYREUTH.DE>
Subject: Hep me! I need addresses.
Dear Feller-lurkers: Some of my collegues at Erlangen, Germany are
translating and assembling in an anthology of American poets--including
Ron Silliman and Chas Bernstein, whom, they tell me, have already given
they're permission.
They're having some difficulties locating others for permissions, so if any of
you have addresses for the following, I'd appreciate it if you could email
them to me at
william.northcutt@uni-bayreuth.de
Okay, here they are:
Ginsberg
Snyder
Levertov
Ashbery
Merwin
and Rothenberg
Thanks in advance, William Northcutt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:44:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kit Robinson <krobinson@BANDO.COM>
Subject: A24
Reply to: A24
Herb,
As Ron & Bill say, A24 was performed at the Grand Piano
coffee house in SF, at SF State for the Poetry Center, and
at UC Davis in a small recording studio. I don't know if the
Grand Piano gig was taped. The SF State performance was
videotaped, but the best performance & recording was done
at UC Davis. The cast:
Bob Perelman - piano
Barrett Watten - poem
Lyn Hejinian - story
Carla Harryman & Steve Benson - play
Kit Robinson - essay
I wonder if the American Poetry Archive has a copy of the
UC Davis tape. Laura?
Kit
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:35:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Marshall H. Reese" <risarano@ECHONYC.COM>
Subject: Zukofsky videotape
in fact there is another Louis Zukofsky videotape kicking about and it is
located in the Milton Eisenhower library at Johns Hopkins University.
Hugh Kenner I believe had invited Zukofsky to read and here is the record
of him reading, I believe A-22 and -23... as a video, regretably, it's
not so good -- i.e., very wide shots and a table lamp w/ shade infront of
the camera... but as a document, it's good and the audio quality is also
good... i don't know anything about the availability but it's there...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:35:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950919095030.4395A-100000@panix2.panix.com>
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Teachers & Writers wrote:
> > > >>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
> > > >>
> > > >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> > > >>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> > > >>> >> >>> >> (...)
> > > >>> >> >>> >>
> > > >>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> > > >>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> > > >>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> > > >>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> > > >>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> > > >>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> > > >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> > > >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> > > >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> > > >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> > > >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> > > >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> > > hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
> > > earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
> >hive ravenous piers for tattle I teach you as previous propagation
that you were in conflict with my treshhold for treshholds, so get
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:20:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thoreau Lovell <tlovell@MERCURY.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: New Five Fingers Review
Comments: cc: olmsted@crl.com
Re: Distribution or Bust
Thanks Charles for reminding us lurkers that we need, at least, to keep the
basic information flowing.
Five Fingers Review 14, "Metamorphosis," is now available. The issue was
inspired by and is dedicated to the memory of Nina Iskrenko. Belated thanks
go out to Ron Silliman, Ed Foster and others for their postings just after
Nina died. She was a contributing editor for FFR and a dear friend as well.
No 14 includes a collaborative project Nina directed just before she died,
called the the Metamorphosis Project, in which she distributed a short
excerpt from Plato's Laws with "all the nouns lovingly crossed out" to a
group of Russain and American writers asking them to fill in the blanks.
The Russian contributors are: Nina, Sveta Litvak, Nikolai Baitov, Igor
Zhukov, Sergei Solovyev, Pavel Mityushev, Dmitry Vodennikov and Andrei
Vorkunov. The American: John High, Leslie Scalapino, Thoreau Lovell,
Michelle Murphy and Scott MacLeod.
The issue also features special sections by other contributing editors:
Writing from the UK edited by Fanny Howe, with work by Ken Edwards, David
Dibosa, Wendy Mulford and Drew Milne. A section of Native American / Mixed
Blood writing edited by Mark Nowak, featuring Diane Glancy, Kimberly
TallBear and Eric Priestley. C. D. Wright and Forrest Gander introduce
writing by two younger writers, J. L. Jacobs and Mallory Tarses
respectively. Rounding out the issue is a section of new poems by Ivan
Zhdanov translated by John High and an interview with Zhdanov conducted by
John High.
Other contributors are: Jon Davis, Sally Doyle, Evgeny Laputin trans.
Vitaly Chernetsky, H. E. Francis, Craig Czury, John Olson, Gordon Lish,
Mark Mirsky, Ezra Mark, Elizabeth Robinson, David Hoefer, Larry Fondation,
Lawrence Fixel, Stephen Ratcliffe, Annabelle Honza Clippinger, Stefanie
Marlis, Robert Fagan, Andrew Joron, Ray DiPalma, and Liz Waldner.
Copies can be ordered directly from Five Fingers for $9.00 at:
Five Fingers Review
PO Box 15426
San Francisco, CA 94115
Phone: 415-431-8506
email: tlovell@sfsu.edu
SPD and our other distributors should have copies by the end of September.
Best,
Thoreau Lovell, Co-Editor w/John High
Thoreau Lovell (tlovell@sfsu.edu) / (415-338-2285)
Computer Coordinator, College of BSS
San Francisco State University
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:35:03 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lisa Robertson <Lisa_Robertson@MINDLINK.BC.CA>
Subject: LZ & bookshop chickenshit
"Bookstores are just as chickenshit as commercial radio stations."
Dear Steve (and all with bookstore complaints),
Here's a slightly crabby response from someone who worked the front lines
of
chickenshit-- having owned and run a bookstore for six years. I agree that
it is
irritating to rarely find one's literary tastes represented on bookstore
shelves. I agree that the situation is getting worse as time goes by. But
the
reason is not that bookbuyers are more disinterested in avant garde
concerns,
but that it is becoming a increasingly large risk, in our deflated
economies, to
maintain a stock that adequately represents even the major movements in
contemporary poetry and poetics, let alone off shoots, "minor" writers,
etc.
Booksellers are not plotting together to keep experimental writing out of
the
marketplace. They are stuggling under extremely anxious conditions to keep
their
businesses open. As Charles pointed out, overhead gets more and more
impossible
in the urban areas which have any sort of concentrated readership of such
books.
If a store does seem to have even a rudimentary stock of books you like, it
probably means that the shop is kept open by free labour, outside jobs on
the
owner's part, and almost definately some sort of martyred partner with a
banal
day job, who keeps the rent paid at home, and the fridge stocked. You can
imagine the burn-out rate of such a life. The point is, why trash even
small
efforts towards adventurous ordering? Why not patiently place special
orders for
Zukofsky, Ferguson, Bernstein, Doris, Celan, then make sure you actually(
and
promptly) buy the book when it arrives? Why not inform your bookseller
about
reading communities who would happily buy sun and moon books, roof books,
tsunami books? Then make sure these people respect the economic outlay a
broke
bookseller is making, make sure money changes hands. Why not make group
orders
via your informal reading groups? If you teach, why not order through
independant shops? If you are a tenured person with an income, why not buy
from
a shop instead of waiting for a complimentary copy to arrive in the mail?
Bookstores finally have to either close, or change their stocking policies
and
philosophies, for complex reasons. Many customers regard a shop that stocks
language poetry, black mountain, tish, objectivists, more like a museum or
a
community service, than a shakey business that desperately needs economic
patonage. Booksellers are often so worn out fielding calls from collections
departments that they can't spend alot of time teaching themselves about
poetry
movements. Its up to the customer who wants a good booksource to teach the
bookseller, help her build a relationship with alternative buying
communities.
The rent which shelters these formidable tomes you favour must be paid, the
space must be insured, the phone kept operative, even if the bookseller
herself
does live on someone else's generosity. Most bookstores are very happy to
special order, and if you multiply these orders, by ordering with friends,
then
the buyer starts to get the point. Here I am begining to repeat my theme, I
know, but in that business haughty individuals who deplore the absence of
their
personal canons are the (irritating) norm. Often the clerk you speak with
is not
the buyer, is someone working for minimum wage, or volunteering, and can't
be a
specialist in your area. Often the bookseller is too embarrassed to tell
you
that the book you have ordered is in limbo because an account has been
frozen or
terminated due to inability to pay. Under long term duress, the protocols
of
concerned and attentive customer service can occaisionally wear thin. Only
a
committed and patient community can keep a good shop open.
On that note I would suggest that all Vancouver list subscribers rush to
Black
Sheep Books on fourth avenue, and help Denise and Trent by buying
something, and
by ordering something. I understand that multiple copies of Perelman's
Trouble
with Genius will be arriving there shortly.
respectfully,
Lisa Robertson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:50:38 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Tapes of Laura Riding and Robert Graves
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:24:39 EDT from
<EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Does anyone know of any tapes of readings by Laura Riding or Robert Graves?
Many thanks for your input.
Gale Nelson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:24:05 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Pergolesi
It's a kind of a bad teminology joke. Baroque in painting sculpture
architecture town planning means a variable time/period-thing that's
hottest in the 17th century, but still going in some versions in the
early 18th in Germany and Austria. But music: that's altogether a
different terminology and even Mozart in the late 18th century is
sometimes called baroque (rarely & I suppose carelessly)though I must
say. Bach and even more obviously Handel coincide with what in
European decorative asrts painting architecture etc is usually called
Rococo. Forget the big old period terminology and its attempts to
find a few simple style characteristics to fit everyone into a time.
French literature Baroque is late 16th century to early 17th
century and ends with the Precieux, maybe the death of Voiture 1648 wd
be a good date. The whole enterprise is deeply suspect. Personally
I'm more interested in way pomo readings of much late 16th c and
early 17th c arts can be useful (which I refuse to say any more about, because
it's the same old game once more other than in a three volume
encyclopaedic book).
The Baroque as a term is about as useful as G1 when it comes
down to the reading/understanding/enjoyment or even on the critical
commentary on any actual works.
Go Pergolesi, with your somewhere between Baroque and Rococo
even early classical-romantic harmony-melody!
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:15:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: publications/anagram
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950919075554.22475B-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> from
"Gwyn McVay" at Sep 19, 95 07:56:31 am
And Michael Boughn can be respelled
Bohemian Gulch
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:13:42 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509190844.B538970139-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Sep 19, 95 08:25:19 am
Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:25:51 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
In-Reply-To: <199509190457.VAA21397@bob.indirect.com> from "Sheila E. Murphy"
at Sep 18, 95 09:57:57 pm
On Sep. 19, Edgar Varese wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:29:35 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Distribution or Bust
In-Reply-To: <01HVFRXVO4FO8XSTHT@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> from "Charles
Bernstein" at Sep 18, 95 10:30:45 pm
Okay, my most recent novel, _Shoot!_ is going to be published in the
US by St. Martin's Press in January.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:06:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Dangerous poets?
In-Reply-To: <199509191444.KAA16368@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> from "Fred
Muratori" at Sep 19, 95 10:44:47 am
Maybe USAmerican poets arent dangerous, but their novelists can be,
to their wives. Take Mailer and Burroughs, for instance.
And some of us know of a USAmerican poet who shot his wife.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:32:50 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <199509190508.WAA21685@bob.indirect.com>
> >> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> >> >>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> >>> >> (...)
> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >> >>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >> >>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >> >>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >> >>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >> >>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >> >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >> >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >> >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >> >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >> >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> >> hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
> >> earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
> therefore elemental-painted playthings cost a dear shined copper looking
> masked vertigo beyond the ti plants fye
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:50:11 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: poetry, bookstores, the list
Well, I am ignorant of many things, including poetry, contemporary poetry
and the bookstores that carry these elements of our being . And yet, I find
no contempt (unless I'm missing something) here , on this list.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:50:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Pergolesi
I'm a fool for Stabat Mater, too. An incomparable experience to sing. I
still feel where on the risers I was standing.
Sheila
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:51:06 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
>> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
>> >
>> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:07:42 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
>
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
>empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:07:44 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
GB wrote:
>On Sep. 19, Edgar Varese wrote:
>
>
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
>towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:10:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
In-Reply-To: <01HVF6FW1C5Q8WZ2H8@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Edward Foster wrote:
> various things, jeffery, too much for here, but at least (1) unpack wcw's
rhetoric: it trivializes much poetry. wcw "clarity" entails doing less, not
better. (2) let's retire "avant-garde." see jackson mac low on this.
it's a military line. -ed
1: Would you care to? Please. . .
2: Yes, less, not necessarily better; but also novel in context--important.
3: Sure, but you know what I mean. And still, where would we be without
that influence?
Jeffrey Timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:23:06 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Distribution 'R' Us
>Even in a city without a store like Woodland Pattern, Talking Leaves,
>Bridge Street, it still makes sense to find an independent local store and
>order through them.
Thanks, Herb, for pointing this out. It is too easy to be cynical about
bookstores, yet so true that at least some of them can be influenced by us
when we actually buy books. I imagine there are several people on this list
who buy $500 or more (for some, a lot more) of books each year. To a
bookstore, that makes you significant, particularly when you figure it's
only a small percentage of Americans who ever set foot in a bookstore.
>Another thing that can increase the distribution of "this kind of" poetry
>is to make purchase requests at libraries.
>
>They won't buy everything (& the selections can seem frustratingly
>arbitrary), but library buyers are overwhelmed with options & frequently
>just need an excuse to make a choice. If few people are requesting books
>(&, even at academic libraries, most people don't), you could make a real
>mark on a library's poetry collection.
I even know of one case at a university where, during a rash of spending
cuts lasting quite some time, librarians could only order books which
faculty members had requested. Several librarians I've known have been
outstanding builders of poetry collections (far better than most literature
professors). I trust them with the decisions more than I trust the faculty,
for the most part.
Thanks for saying these various things, Herb.
charles
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:29:14 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
In-Reply-To: <01HVGJ18ZUY68WZD47@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Edward Foster wrote:
> i was referring to the passage quoted from wcw and suggesting that if you
unpack it you find that it eliminates or questions ways of speaking--gnostic
utterance for one.
I'm not sure why I'm pursuing this . . . I thought we trashed over WCW
months ago? Anyway, the passage--if it's the one I posted--does seek to
question a way of speaking; specifically, a poetry that emulates the
real. WCW was after the shape of the imagination--as vague, mind you, as
Nature, but specifically attempting to free poetry from the constraints
of an inherited romantic tradition binding verse to the depiction of a
natural world. WcW (wCw; W2C?) was . . . questioning the validity of
this way of writing. And, again,(especially if we are to pursue this any
further) I ask: where would we be without this influence?
Jeffrey Timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:47:09 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>> >
>> >> >>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/19/95 C adding to J adding to S
>> >> >>
>> >> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>> >> >>books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> >>> >> (...)
>> >> >>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread
>>been-to
>> >> >>> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >> >>> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >> >>> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >> >>> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small
>>worl
>d"
>> >> >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >> >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> >> >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>> >> >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> >> >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>> >> >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
>> >> hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
>> >> earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
>> therefore elemental-painted playthings cost a dear shined copper looking
>> for false grit and the dogma of autonomous syntaxis overwhelmed them
when striking from base-camp their paraffin tongues in the cauldron
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:57:09 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Distribution 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <199509200449.FAA22058@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
In uk universities book-buying budgets are so tight that it's not uncommon
for all library selection to be delegated to faculty. The result, in my
experience, is that collections are always lagging behind current academic
interest because they are reacting to demand, rather than understanding it
and preempting it. Also, collections fragment as each individual pursues
his/her own concerns, and the "linkage" areas fall by the wayside.
Smallpress buying, it goes without saying, also falls away.
Having a librarian involved in selection doesn't fix the basic problem
(lack of resource) but it should mean that selection has a broader base,
and can react to wider interests (as long as these are expressed, and
don't remain at the sudued muttering stage). Gently, I'm starting to
squeeze a little more smallpress material into Durham...
signed,
A Librarian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:47:17 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>> >> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/19/95 C adding to J adding to S
>> >> >
>> >> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>> >> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> >> (...)
>> >> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small
>>world
>"
>> >> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> >> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>> >> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> >> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>> >> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
>> >and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
>> for the brevity inferred and for the latchkey touch more like a feather
>> drizzling blood of picklet beet all over the related phenomena
braising from punch a drunk streak which no absolute bearings flew
>>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:59:00 PDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@ISLANDNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Dangerous poets?
>>
>>What is a "dangerous" poet?
>>
>>Tom
>>tbjn@well.com
I nu she was dangerus but was she a poet? So I askd her wat a dangerus poet
is. She sed a dangerus poet sets u free and on the road to ruin. I sed u
goin my way beautiful? She sed u gotta doo bettr thn that if u wanna be
free. I'd settle for ruind I sed. She sed I onlee date poets. I sed are yu a
poet? She sed that's a jujment not a vocashun. So I need to deside wether
yore a poet? I'll call yu one if yu call me one I sed. I don't need it that
bad she sed. Doo u need it I askd. U ask a lot of questyuns she sed. I don't
hav a lot of ansers I sed. So r u a poet she askd. I squirmd n sed if u
don't say so no one will beleev u. Yore work she replied. Poetry is wide I
sed. Hoose perpus duz it suit and what's the perpus if someone calls yu a
poet. In yore case, she sed, it's to get me into bed. I think yer dangerus I
sed. I don't noe what poetry is, I sed. She sed flatteree will get you
noware. As for poetry, neethr do I she sed. Wat is it tht we want to be she
sed and y? If it is th outword thing then weave missd it there's devoshun to
wat can be sed th reach of it and all of us in th breath. Time and we will
tell us hoo we r I sed. A dangerus one's a pure one maybe. Hoo can tell too
early? We spend it out finding out. Honey I'm on th road to ruin. And hey I
got a little lucky fr a coffee and the diffrence between a rebel and a
revolutionary. It wasn't enuff but it was a start.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:39:23 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Patrick Phillips <Patrick_Phillips@BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Dist. or Bust (i.e., New Book)
Well, I have to fess up. I just received 9 boxes of my new book _Ruin_.
But if my silence on the publication of this book weren't egregious enough
quietude, I am also the publisher. - what books - is the name of my
press.
Upcoming from what books is a book by Thad Ziolkowski titled _Our Son the
Arson_, due sometime at the end of the year. I hope in the next year to
publish one or two other collections and a recalcitrant anthology I've been
working on for a while. I aim to publish two or three books a year by
writers who are just outside the loop. what books is not an effort to bring
writers into the loop-as-such, but to see if there can remain for at least
a while a notion complicit autonomy. There is a big cusp.
As to my book, I have had luck doing the consignment hustle in NYC - St.
Marks had one copy last I heard (two were purchased there by friends) and
Tower's consignment buyer wants more. That's pretty much the extent of my
distribution to date. Now I have 750 copies...
If anyone would like a copy (or copies for thier book store shelves) you
can reach me here, preferably back-channel, or at PRPhillips@aol.com. I
would be glad to send you one. I know that some of you are strapped for
cash (or couldn't bear the sight unseeness of it,) I will be giving away
some copies, so if you would like a copy (for barter, trade, or donation
and postage), please send me your mailing address and I'll gladly send you
one.
I would also be very glad to hear anyone's comments on SPD and "other"
distribution methods. I would also like to know people have luck hoofing
into other stores in the Boston/NY/Philly/DC area with thier books, or
which stores are particularly open. Julianna, or Rod, do either of you
have small press info? Lisa Robertson, what is your view of the viability
of quite small "indi's" in the small press slump?
Patrick Phillips
107 Elmgrove Ave.
Providence, RI 02906
401 272 1181
Patrick_Phillips@brown.edu
PRPhillips@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:21:01 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...>
>someone, sometime maybe wrote:
> > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> > the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>> of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
far and away in the midst of a hustlingbusted big CCIITTYY
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:06:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
Bananas and coconut grove's ashes Phoenix rose and o
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:05:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>>Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
>>
>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>>of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
>>empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
>libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:02:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>>> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>>> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>>> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>>> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>>> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>>> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>>> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>>> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>>> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
>> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:31:06 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
ed writes:
>various things, jeffery, too much for here, but at least
(1) unpack wcw's rhetoric: it trivializes much poetry. wcw "clarity"
entails doing less, not better.
This is probably the concomitant danger of the attempt to poetize trivia, to
champion "simple everyday speech." Certainly when WCW's effort fails, the
trivia stays trivial and the poetry joins it. But honestly, Ed, are there
no moments in WCW when something trivial achieves a shining presence through
Williams' treatment of it?
(2) let's retire "avant-garde." see jackson mac low on this. it's a
military line.
...which has been incorporated by the fashion industry.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:46:55 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Cris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>> >>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 19/9/95 C adding to J adding to C adding to S
>> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
>> >>spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >>that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >>say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >>than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >>go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >>& where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>> >>ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >>from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> >>ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop's stigmata
>> >>this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> >>detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>> >>I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
>> >>the night I told you to stop referring to me as Ontology Boy
>> >and you replied all shrouded in epistemology that it was glue we lacked
>> "ckab oups frert cdl-fdl!!" with elvis projecting "uhhhh, I'm all stuck
>>in the epoxy I used to cement my relationship w/ Thou, the Dead Quaker
who who traipses a paradigm sweat under lights and then fixes
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:57:18 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
Comments: cc: efoster@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu
Ed,
I'm afraid I got lost. What passage? What is this about "nature"? Etc.
(I may have accidentally deleted some unread messages, Or else maybe
I've had a minor stroke, but anyway I dont' know to what your last
message responds.
love,
burt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:05:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Charles O. Hartman" <cohar@CONNCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Distribution or Bust
In-Reply-To: <199509192129.VAA03251@fraser.sfu.ca>
Well, OK, my _Glass Enclosure_ came out from Wesleyan a couple of months
ago. And earlier in the year Sun & Moon did Hugh Kenner's and my _Sentences_.
Charles O. Hartman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:09:03 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "SUSAN E. TICHY" <stichy@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: LZ & bookshop chickenshit
In-Reply-To: <m0sv9Ng-0000QQC@deep.rsoft.bc.ca>
Thank you, Lisa, for a little breath of un-self-centered air in this
discussion. As co-owner of one of the world's smallest bookstores, I can
corroborate the sad truth that invoices must be paid whether the books on
them have sold or not. And the effort to balance what will sell with
what I wish would sell, what I'd like to be surrounded with, is in itself
a career. When a customer asks for a book I don't have--or a whole
category of books I don't have--I always respond by offering to place
an order. Usually the disgruntled one can't be bothered.
And one more thing--bookstore owners have venues of our own, where we talk
about our customers the way you are talking about us. That's the reason
there aren't more assaults in bookstores.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:11:46 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dist. or Bust (i.e., New Book)
Dear Patrick:
I'd love to trade for a copy of Ruin. I can send you one of my books
(Hopeful Buildings, Chax Press; or arc of light/dark matter, Segue Books),
or I can send another Chax Press Book (Ron Silliman, Demo to Ink; Kathleen
Fraser, when new time folds up; Beverly Dahlen, A Reading 8-10; Norman
Fischer, Precisely the Point Being Made; Sheila Murphy, Teth; Karen Mac
Cormack, Quirks & Quillets; bp Nichol, Hopeful Buildings; Eli Goldblatt,
Sessions; Wo'i Bwikam/Coyote Songs, from the Yaqui Bow Leaders' Society; or
the forthcoming The Said Lands, Islands, & Premises, by Mary Margaret Sloan,
etc.), or you could wait for a new book by me in about six months.
Let me know. And send anything to the address below.
all best,
charles
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:11:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509200251.TAA20441@bob.indirect.com>
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:14:38 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509200307.UAA20856@bob.indirect.com>
> >Some ink-daubbed Canadian & American wretches wrote:
> >
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> >empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
> doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:30:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: bookshop chickenshit & LZ
Chickenshit? Oh, I thought it said "chickenship" & read it through twice
looking for an anecdote about Spicer in a vancouver bookshop.
Even so, I want to reiterate Lisa's suggestion that Vancouver folks support
Black Sheep Books. They did a great job of stocking their tables at
BlaserCon.
I only wish I was in Vancouver more often to spend more money at such a
responsive shop. Maybe when I'm up there to hear Derek Bailey & company.
&, thanks to everyone for the information on various Zukofsky video/audio
tapes.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:31:04 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Distribution or Shoot
George -
I hope you are able to find a Canadian publisher for "Shoot" eventually,
but at least you were able to get it published somewhere.
Let me know if you'll need any copies brought up from Seattle.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:34:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <9509192038.aa17101@post.demon.co.uk>
SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/19/95 J adding to C adding to J adding to S
> >> >> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> >> >> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>> >> (...)
> >> >> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >> >> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >> >> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >> >> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >> >> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small
> >>world
> >"
> >> >> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> >> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >> >> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >> >> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >> >> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >> >> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
> >> >and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
> >> for the brevity inferred and for the latchkey touch more like a feather
> >> drizzling blood of picklet beet all over the related phenomena
> braising from punch a drunk streak which no absolute bearings flew
off the Handel I did not miss for Pergolesi was by the pergola with
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:36:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...>
In-Reply-To: <199509200521.WAA14852@well.com>
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> >someone, sometime maybe wrote:
>
> > > >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> > > the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> > Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >> of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> far and away in the midst of a hustlingbusted big CCIITTYY
> where disparity fell like soft rain far from Leithauser
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:42:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509200506.WAA10355@well.com>
The Bell Curl
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> Bananas and coconut grove's ashes Phoenix rose and o
> o, o, the Murdochian rag, ok stop dick stop spot ate puff
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:18:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
In-Reply-To: <199509200307.UAA20859@bob.indirect.com>
Jorge Bowering Murphy wrote
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:29:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <9509192038.aa17056@post.demon.co.uk>
R! = C!S!J! = (X - >>>>) where X is a variable ranging from excellent to
outasight
"books were closed, dreams were cancelled, the inverted poplar was set
right, the cardinal was killed"
St.John Terse, "Ananas"
> >> >> >>> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> >> >>> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >> >> >>> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >> >> >>> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >> >> >> detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >> >> >I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> >> >> hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
> >> >> earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
> >> therefore elemental-painted playthings cost a dear shined copper looking
> >> for false grit and the dogma of autonomous syntax overwhelmed them
> when striking from base-camp their paraffin tongues in the cauldron
of sylvia's morning during the time that ted was devising a way to
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:44:58 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509200402.XAA28214@freedom.mtn.org>
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> >>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >>
> >>> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >>> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >>> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >>> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >>> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >>> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >>> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >>> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >>> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >>> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> >thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
> the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
> maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:01:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Distribution or Object
_Object # 5_ "featuring" Rod Smith is out, 25 page piece called "A Grammar
Manakin." Also in the issue are Jennifer Moxley, Tim Davis, Steven Farmer,
Judith Goldman, Dirk Rowntree, Michael Basinski, Bill Luoma, Vallerie Fox,
Joe Elliot, Bill Howe, Milo DeAngelis, & Joan Retallack.
_Object #4_ is a long piece by Robert Kocik & an essay by Stacy Doris. Rob
Fitterman, the editor, plans to continue the format of #5, a 25-page feature
plus other work, in future issues.
Order from Object, 7-13 Washington Square North #47B, NY, NY 10003. $5 per
issue, $8 two issue subscription. Checks payable to Robert Fitterman.
Also, my chapbook called _The Boy Poems_ is available from Buck Downs Books,
POBox 50376, Washington, DC 20091 for $4.
& that's the news.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:18:13 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dangerous Music
In-Reply-To: <199509200445.VAA05243@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
last truly dangerous poet I met was a drunk at the Red Lion who used to
leave threatening messages on my answering machine -- since moving West I
haven't encountered another --
BUT, in the sens in which the question was offered --
commercial publishing and its yardley appendages have done a good job of
convincing everyone that American poets are clawless (perhaps even
clueless), merely pawing over one another --
there is, however, always a however,
most of us in fact know of one or two people who aren't publishing poets
who occasionally read poetry
whether any poets are truly dangerous or not, the US Govt. seems to worry
about some of them -- check out Baraka's FBI files and you'll be
surprised how many of his chapbooks were purchased by Hoover's literati
for closer examination
the MFA establishment, whoever and wherever that might be, certainly goes
into a tither the moment anyone suggests hiring a poet unlikely to get on
TV with Bill Moyers and loosing same upon the creative writing students
-- I've observed this phenom. at several colleges in recent years -- &
read the AWP newletter if you think Yardley is the most outrageous and
paranoid of our denouncers of poetics these days --
The reactions of both FBA and MFA agents are, naturally, out of all
proportion to real threat --
I think Bersenbrugge endangered a number of my own assumptions about line
-- and I have been trying to understand what that means ever since --
rereading Russell Atkins was a clear and present danger to much that I
had been taught about postmodernity, and I'm still mulling that over
No novel is safe in the vicinity of Lyn Hejinian or Leslie Scalapino
And Williams is still, I believe, more dangerous than the "light rail"
now installed in San Jose, which has claimed fifteen lives during its
short existence.
I don't think H.D. represents a clear and present danger (though I love
her, the novels especially) -- but Moore's scalpel is deadly if you let
her get close --
Have any poets changed my own carriage?
To this day I will not read Niedecker in a dark room by myself --
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:29:16 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kit Robinson <krobinson@BANDO.COM>
Subject: Diamonds and Rust
Reply to: Diamonds and Rust
NewLangtonArts presents. . .
the premiere performance of
Diamonds and Rust
by Kevin Killian & Wayne Smith
a new play that chronicles the inner struggles of a group
of young window dressers who yearn for separate careers
as fine artists. . .
ONE NIGHT ONLY
Saturday, September 30
8pm
Tickets: $8/$6 members
NewLangtonArts
1246 Folsom St. between 8th & 9th
San Francisco
415.626.5416
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:27:53 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Fred E. Maus" <fem2x@DARWIN.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509201106.B539034782-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Sep 20, 95 11:14:38 am
the books were
the end of
the projection of
dead heroes
dead heroes of
scores of
libretti, roughage
like enigmas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 07:36:21 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509200405.XAA28233@freedom.mtn.org>
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> >>Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
> >>
> >>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>
> >>of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> >>empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> >libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
> or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
> nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:49:03 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
> Jorge Bowering Murphy wrote
>
>> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
>> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
>> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
>> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
although reputation tends to weave a little of transfixive
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:49:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>> >Some ink-daubbed Canadian & American wretches wrote:
>> >
>> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>> >of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
>> >empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
>> libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
>> doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:44:57 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>>>Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
>>>
>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>
>>>of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
>>>empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
>>libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
>or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
more dangerous than mislabeled spice with conscience
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:53:37 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Reality Street Edition new books
OK in response to Charles' request, here's a truncated version of Reality Street
Editions' catalogue (full version at the EPC). Our most recent books, on their
way to SPD in a rather bulky package on a tramp steamer even as I write, are:
Fanny Howe
O'CLOCK
1-874400-07-5 L6.50
200 x 120mm paperback 104pp
Peter Riley
DISTANT POINTS
1-874400-06-7 L6.50
200 x 148mm paperback 64pp
Out this autumn...
Sarah Kirsch
T
Translated by Anthony Vivis and Wendy Mulford.
Autumn 1995 1-874400-05-9 L4.50
200 x 120mm saddle-stitched 28pp
Forthcoming Jan 1996....
OUT OF EVERYWHERE
An anthology of contemporary linguistically innovative poetry by women in North
America & the UK
Edited and with an introduction by Maggie O'Sullivan
Afterword by Wendy Mulford
The 30 poets included are:
Rae Armantrout, Caroline Bergvall, Nicole Brossard, Paula Claire, Tina Darragh,
Deanna Ferguson, Kathleen Fraser, Barbara Guest, Carla Harryman, Lyn Hejinian,
Fanny Howe, Susan Howe, Grace Lake, Karen MacCormack, Bernadette Mayer,
Geraldine Monk, Wendy Mulford, Melanie Neilson, Maggie O'Sullivan, Carlyle
Reedy, Joan Retallack, Denise Riley, Lisa Robertson, Leslie Scalapino, Catriona
Strang, Fiona Templeton, Rosmarie Waldrop, Diane Ward, Hannah Weiner, Marjorie
Welish.
Winter 1995/6 1-874400-08-3 L7.50
205 x 132mm paperback 240pp (actually likely to be 256pp)
Recently published....
Allen Fisher
DISPOSSESSION AND CURE
1-874400-03-2 L6.50
200 x 148mm paperback 72pp
Denise Riley
MOP MOP GEORGETTE
1-874400-04-0 L6.50
170 x 170mm paperback 72pp
Maggie O'Sullivan
IN THE HOUSE OF THE SHAMAN
1-874400-01-6 L6.50
210 x 147mm paperback 72pp
Susan Gevirtz
TAKEN PLACE
1-874400-02-4 L6.50
200 x 148mm paperback 64pp
Kelvin Corcoran
LYRIC LYRIC
1-874400-00-8 L5.99
200 x 120mm paperback 48pp
Inquiries:
Ken Edwards, 4 Howard Court, Peckham Rye, London SE15 3PH, UK
Tel: 0171-639 7297
email: 100344.2546@compuserve.com
UK distributors
-Paul Green, 83b London Rd, Peterborough PE2 9BS
-Peter Riley, 27 Sturton St, Cambridge CB1 2QG,
tel 01223-576 422
USA distributors
-Small Press Distribution Inc, 1814 San Pablo Avenue, Berkeley, CA 94702, tel
510-549-3336
Canadian distributors
-Marginal Distribution, Unit 102, 277 George Street North, Peterborough, Ontario
K9J 3G9, tel 705-745-2326
NB: All prices are in sterling; refer to our US/Canadian distributors for dollar
prices.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:57:06 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: LAURA MORIARTY <moriarty@MERCURY.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A24
In-Reply-To: <199509191739.KAA11050@lanfill.lanminds.com>
I've back-channeled a few people about both Zukovsky and the A-24 tape,
but was hesitant to post to the list as it would be difficult to respond
to many requests for the tapes all at once. The Poetry Center and American
Poetry Archives here at SF State taped the performance of A-24 that was
done here. The date I have for it is 11/15/78. I don't believe I have
releases from all of the performers (everyone's list of them was
accurate) to sell the tape, so it is distributed only as a library tape for the price of membership ($20) in The Poetry
Center. We also have the outtakes from the NET series Poetry: USA,
including the Zukovsky program. It is 30 minutes, a very interesting tape, which
sells, as Charles Watts indicated (thanks, Charles) for $125 and can be
rented for $15. I can be reached here by email or by phone (415)338-1056 Moday -Thursday.
Laura Moriarty
Archives Director
moriarty@sfsu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:33:07 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: Graves tapes
Caedmon Tape SWC 1066 is Graves reading poetry and from THE WHITE
GODDESS.
Tom Kirby-Smith
English Department
UNC-Greensboro
Greensboro NC 27412
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:46:44 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: A24
Comments: cc: Kit Robinson <krobinson@bando.com>
Hi Kit, I wonder if there's anything else you can add to the discussion re-
A24 in performance. How did it work? What felt awkward, if anything, in the
tension between the music notation and the language notation? Would you
recommend that it's worth working on a performance of A24 - with
performance-writing students say? Any titbits of process, discussion that
spring to mind? Am I right in remembering that this production followed on
from several Poets Theatre performances, how did it feel to be working on
something that was not written by people directly in that 'group' of
writers and performers?
simply lots of questions - I'm curious to know more
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:17:20 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
>> >>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >>> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >>> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> >>> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> >>> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> >>> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> >>> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> >>> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> >>> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> >>> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
>> >> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>> >thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
>> the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
>> maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:45:59 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Scheil <cschei1@FREENET.GRFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dist. or Bust (i.e., New Book)
Comments: To: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
In-Reply-To: <199509201411.JAA02415@freedom.mtn.org>
Dear Charles,
Could you send me a catalog or brochure for Chax press? I'm the inv.
manager for Schuler Books here in Grand Rapids, MI.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:50:48 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
where would we be? again: look at rimbaud, where wcw visited; it was there. but you'll find similarly, if differently phrased, positions in (oddly, given wcw's rejection) keats, moving poetry away from the ego (and representation, too). no?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:13:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
burt: it's the passage in jeffrey timmons' note of sept. 15th; it's that i initially suggested one "unpack" and that i was "unpacking" in the note to you. my heavens, this gets complicated; i wish they'd allow me more than three lines. -ed
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:55:24 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
as for "where would we be without . . . ," that's not the issue. it's whether we need a shift out of that tradition, put it in mothballs for a while (or that classroom, same thing).
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:02:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
yes, steve, there are moments when "something trivial achieves a shining presence," but it's still a way of seeing and a language that doesn't compel as much anymore. and curiously, moore does those transformations much better. dickinson, too.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:32:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
In-Reply-To: <199509201749.KAA18159@bob.indirect.com>
On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jurphy Sowering Borge wrote
> >
> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
> >> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
> >> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
> >> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
> although reputation tends to weave a little of transfixive
> which sticks to your clothes and makes you ineluctable
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:39:16 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509201749.KAA18199@bob.indirect.com>
Some fans of Dick Assman wrote
> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >> >of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> >> >empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> >> libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
> >> doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
> puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
> the grotto of our Lady of Corollaries during the Feast of the Enormity
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:53:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: publications/anagram
In-Reply-To: <199509192115.VAA26672@fraser.sfu.ca> from "George Bowering" at
Sep 19, 95 02:15:33 pm
Jeffrey Timmons = Jiffy Meets Morn
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:37:18 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Distribution or Shoot
In-Reply-To: <v01530502ac856fe7e0b8@[192.0.2.1]> from "Herb Levy" at Sep 20,
95 08:31:04 am
Thanks, Herb.
Actually, _Shoot!_ was published in Toronto about a year ago.
But let me know whether you haver any hot Albanian publishers looking
for a good time.
Did you see/hear anything of Cecil while he was there last week?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:28:08 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509201749.KAA18199@bob.indirect.com> from "Sheila E. Murphy"
at Sep 20, 95 10:49:53 am
On the day before the equinox, Lionel Trilling wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
San Luis Obispo, home of cowering Democrats on soya diets
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:41:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509201109.A539034782-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Sep 20, 95 11:11:31 am
>
> On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
> > >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > >> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> > >> >The hell I did! GB
> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> > but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:56:28 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Cris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <9509192038.aa16995@post.demon.co.uk> from "cris cheek" at Sep
19, 95 08:46:55 pm
>
> >> >>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 19/9/95 C adding to J adding to C adding to S
> >> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
> >> >>spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >> >>that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >> >>say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >> >>than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >> >>go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >> >>& where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >> >>ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >> >>from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >> >>ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop's stigmata
> >> >>this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >> >>detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >> >>I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
> >> >>the night I told you to stop referring to me as Ontology Boy
> >> >and you replied all shrouded in epistemology that it was glue we lacked
> >> "ckab oups frert cdl-fdl!!" with elvis projecting "uhhhh, I'm all stuck
> >>in the epoxy I used to cement my relationship w/ Thou, the Dead Quaker
> who who traipses a paradigm sweat under lights and then fixes
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>groin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:11:27 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: LZ & bookshop chickenshit
Dear Lisa:
Thanks for the added perspective. I thought that I was saying about
bookbuyers basically what you say about them, albeit from my own crabby
armchair. What I meant by "chickenshit" was, in fact, more directed toward
the chain bookstores (and I don't think there's an anti-experimental or
-small press conspiracy there either), who don't want to be bothered with
patchwork distribution and return policies, smaller orders (it's easier for
them to order in bulk than 1 or 2 copies at a time), and so on. I certainly
understand for smaller bookstores that there's a real (and legitimate)
anxiety about taking chances with their shelf space, and the suggestions you
and Herb Levy have outlined are excellent ones that I feel really stupid
about not going the extra step to mention before I posted.
It was not my intention to trash anyone for not stocking my taste in poetry,
and I used to work in (several) record stores, so I have been on the other
side of the counter and know what that's like too.
We in S.F. have all but lost Small Press Traffic (it's relegated to 4 or 5
shelves in another bookstore at Noe and Market, a storage space in Colma,
and Dodie's reading series), and so we may have to learn this lesson the
hard way.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:00:55 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
In-Reply-To: <01HVI6JQI8NI8WZRDF@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Edward Foster wrote:
> yes, steve, there are moments when "something trivial achieves a shining
presence," but it's still a way of seeing and a language that doesn't compel
as much anymore. and curiously, moore does those transformations much better.
dickinson, too.
Last post on this: Sure, ed, and Chaucer just plain don't make sense!
Jeffrey Timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:50:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Self-disclosure
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509201056.B22129-0100000@dsys.cc.conncoll.edu>
I just want to thank people for announcing their publications
Thanks,
Jeffrey Timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:47:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
In-Reply-To: <199509200331.UAA14052@slip-1.slip.net>
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Steve Carll wrote:
> This is probably the concomitant danger of the attempt to poetize trivia, to
> champion "simple everyday speech." Certainly when WCW's effort fails, the
> trivia stays trivial and the poetry joins it.
I'm not sure I can agree that WcW fails. In fact, as my posts have
suggested, he is important because he succeeded so well at turning poetry
to the everyday. If the everyday is trivial, well, then I too wish we
could live in the poems we all dream. The everyday is not trivial and is
worthy of poetry.
Jeffrey
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:52:27 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Online Directory of Poets - PLEASE READ -
-- Request For Permission --
We are, at the EPC, ready to mount a new service, the *Online
Directory of Poets*. This will be a listing (and its first iteration
is based on the list of subscribers to Poetics) of people using e-mail
with Poetics interests.
As planned, the list will be alphabetical by name and will give an
e-mail address. The e-mail address will be highlighted so that when
you look up someone you can simply click on their address and send a
message to them directly from the EPC. (A sort of "active" directory.)
-->>>>IMPORTANT<<<<--
Since I used a list based on subscribers to this list, if you do NOT
want to be listed in this directory, please e-mail me directly as soon
as you can and I will remove your name!!!
Thanks!
Loss
lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:06:43 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: eric pape <ENPAPE@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
In-Reply-To: <01HVI65ZM3GY8WZRDF@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
ed, et al: I toofind WCW boring. But it may be that I do because he is so
easily imitated. So, I sometimes find O'Hara, Ginsburg, Hejinian, boring for
the same reasons.
Was it Picasso who said, very very roughly, "The most original art is
ugly. Then someone comes along and makes it pretty." I don't know
but can the term, or the concept, "boring" apply in the same way?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:01:54 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
In-Reply-To: <01HVI65ZM3GY8WZRDF@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Edward Foster wrote:
> where would we be? again: look at rimbaud, where wcw visited; it was there.
but you'll find similarly, if differently phrased, positions in (oddly, given
wcw's rejection) keats, moving poetry away from the ego (and representation,
too). no?
Darn it . . . drawn in yet again: sure different positions, but doesn't
your statement assume that you can purge the "tradition" of WcW's
presence? That we don't need him? Sure, there were alternatives to him,
differently phrased positions, certainly, but you are arguing against
history here. Rimbaud and Keats and WcW made different versions of
poetics available. Just as you must deal with Whitman, you must deal
with WcW's influence (though admitedly on a whole different scale). It's
not a question of substituting different versions of poetics for another
(though this raises an interesting question of just that possibility),
but, rather, of attending to the polyphony of different voices in
dialogue with each other. Obviously, wcw is in dialogue with keats, etc,
rejecting him, what have you. Perhaps WcW has obscured keats to us or
vice versa, but rather than simply deny wcw's influence or presence in
american poetics maybe we should be accounting for what he was writing
against (specifically) and how that has filtered our perceptions of him
and those whom he writes against. I think Ed makes this point, perhaps,
though in three lines or less it must be difficult. Yes, someone give Ed
more lines. Please. Most importantly, I am willing to go along with WcW
and what he was writing against. If there were alternatives to his
version that were obscured by his canonization I'd be willing to
entertain thoughts on them.
Jeffrey Timmons
(Jiffy Meets Morn)
PS: Thanks George, I was feeling left out!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:28:05 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
Ed,
Could you spell out your position re WCW & his supposed lack of relevance
more clearly, (I *might* agree given a context)-- Not trying to start a
fight. The discussion reminds me a bit of Cage's remarks about
"masterpieces"-- that a masterpiece is something one continues to find
something new in, but that doesn't seem to hold true. Seems that we can
actually use up a piece of art. . . Is that (uh-oh) post modern? Is Duchamp
still "new"? If not what the hell is? Or is it a mistake to look for
something new? If WCW's used up, Olson must be to. Berrigan seems new to me,
but how describe. . . Is it a matter of attitude? of the poet &/or the
reader? bla bla bla?
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:43:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
> >> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
> >> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
> >> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
> although reputation tends to weave a little of transfixive
> which sticks to your clothes and makes you ineluctable
elision, like a lit bit of sacrificial eclecticism (a-singin'
"stone me to to my soul")
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:48:35 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: WCW
It may be a sad truth, but the reality is that if Spring & All were
published for the first time today, it would still be the most
innovative and forward thinking book of the year, and would have been
so in any of the past 25 years. How we have gone from that to the
current norm of bland one-page abstract lyrics befuddles me....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:28:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "CAROLYN L. FORCHE-MATTISON" <cforchem@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
In reference, I think, to the "dangerous" thread, Aldon deployed superb
wit in his reference to FBI/MFA agents. I want to suggest, however, that
this situation is perhaps changing. The academy has been infiltrated at
Buffalo, UC Santa Cruz and (?). Here at George Mason's MFA program
(which has at least five subscribers to this list), I was able to bring
Rod Smith into the teaching fold, and in the past year and a half we've
had Susan Howe and Leslie Scalapino among the few two-day residencies we
can afford. This fall, it's Rosemarie Waldrop. A number of the
poet-grad students are writing linguistically innovative work and
frequent Rod's Bridge Street Books. The student mag, -Phoebe- featured
work of interest to this list in the last issue. I don't know what's
happening elsewhere, as I've always been somewhat isolated, but this
isn't a closed shop. BTW, the new person at AWP's newsletter, The
Chronicle (also now based here) is a subscriber to this list, and would
welcome essays from any of you. I'm not naive about that audience, so
why not begin with something on how to *read*.
Warmest regards,
Carolyn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:32:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: yet another anagram
In-Reply-To: <199509210252.WAA16097@lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Loss Pequeno Glazier = "long sleaze-quip rose"
or "gloss no equal prize"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:04:49 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Online Directory of Poets - PLEASE READ -
how can we subscribe to the On Line Directory of Poets?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:21:34 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: How it Happened
How It Happened
for Ron Silliman
After centuries, it was finally clear--
We had lost it. But where did it go?
We asked the witch, hiding behind the television,
But she was only picking her nose. The validation
Had come through on the backs of stormtroopers
In plaid, but when we went to apply it
To our balance, some goons, it turned out,
Had hauled away our collateral in a wheelbarrow.
"No ideas but in love songs," said the radio,
And it went straight into all our poems,
Which were utterly, utterly up front
About the situation.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:35:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Online Directory of Poets
In-Reply-To: <00996B92.267F7A34.20@admin.njit.edu> from "Burt Kimmelman
-@NJIT" at Sep 21, 95 10:04:49 am
> how can we subscribe to the On Line Directory of Poets?
It's not a subscription type thing. You simply go to it and use
it.
When it's put online (next week I think), you can access it through
the World-Wide Web at the Electronic Poetry Center:
http:/writing.upenn.edu/epc
Follow the link for authors, then you will see a link to the
directory.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:53:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Online Directory of Poets (fwd)
> > how can we subscribe to the On Line Directory of Poets?
>
> When it's put online (next week I think), you can access it through
> the World-Wide Web at the Electronic Poetry Center:
>
> http:/writing.upenn.edu/epc
>
> Follow the link for authors, then you will see a link to the
> directory.
>
I have also placed a link to it from the EPC home page (the url given
above).
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:56:48 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950921081544.7708B-100000@osf1.gmu.edu>
What Carolyn said. Yes, yes, yes, please. The only way to divert the
stream of commodified flush-left-first-person-narrative-(you know what I
mean) poetics is to infiltrate. Send articles to my attention:
Gwyn McVay
AWP Chronicle
Associated Writing Programs
Tallwood House, Mail Stop 1E3
George Mason University
Fairfax, VA 22030
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:58:48 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "B. Cassidy" <bcassidy@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950921081544.7708B-100000@osf1.gmu.edu>
To build off of what Carolyn has said is happenning at GM, I thought it
might be of interest to the list to know what's been happenning here at (the
dreaded) Writer's Workshops at The U of Iowa.
1) The most single most requested poet in a pole of the the students
this semester for who they would like to see come and give a reading was
Michael Palmer. So, he's coming in November.
2) In the second year class (my class), out of approx. 25 students,
fully one third of them is working quite consciously in a "language" or
"avante-guard" tradition, and at least one-half (though probably more) of
the second year class, reads and is familiar and is at least partially
influenced by the "language" poets.
3) Perhaps most interesting (and wonderful), however, is that next semester
(Jan.), Bob Perelman will be the visiting faculty member in the WS. Talk about
infiltration....
SO, it seems things are changing all over, even at the most "established"
of the "establishment". Faculty here are finding themselves having to at
least address "language" poetry in class. In fact, over the summer in a
seminar in contemporary poetry, the teacher asked who the students were
reading and who they would like to discuss during the class, and EVERY
one of them mentioned an "experimental" writer. I'm not sure what to
make of it...but I'm happy it's happening.
Apologies for all terms in quotes -- it seems silly to use them any other
way.
Best,
Brian Cassidy
> In reference, I think, to the "dangerous" thread, Aldon deployed superb
> wit in his reference to FBI/MFA agents. I want to suggest, however, that
> this situation is perhaps changing. The academy has been infiltrated at
> Buffalo, UC Santa Cruz and (?). Here at George Mason's MFA program
> (which has at least five subscribers to this list), I was able to bring
> Rod Smith into the teaching fold, and in the past year and a half we've
> had Susan Howe and Leslie Scalapino among the few two-day residencies we
> can afford. This fall, it's Rosemarie Waldrop. A number of the
> poet-grad students are writing linguistically innovative work and
> frequent Rod's Bridge Street Books. The student mag, -Phoebe- featured
> work of interest to this list in the last issue. I don't know what's
> happening elsewhere, as I've always been somewhat isolated, but this
> isn't a closed shop. BTW, the new person at AWP's newsletter, The
> Chronicle (also now based here) is a subscriber to this list, and would
> welcome essays from any of you. I'm not naive about that audience, so
> why not begin with something on how to *read*.
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Carolyn
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:43:43 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Online Directory of Poets
>http:/writing.upenn.edu/epc
should be:
>http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:21:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Self-disclosure
hi guys. tried to lurk for a day. but timmon's thanks for adverting our
publications lured me out: if anyone's going to the beat art exhibit at the
whitney in nyc, i've got a piece in the catalogue. i tried to walk a fine
line between critique and appreciation, of course i'll be accused of
softpedaling critique or underappreciating, but hey, life's short, art's
longish but equally brutish sometimes. so, now that i'm on aol i have more
sympathy w/ the renga-critiquers. those yummy lines just don't look as nice
on the truncated screen aol provides, and the typeface is too big --i miss my
old account and its aesthetic-- but i love those wow lines jorge sheila et al
--did i miss something in transit about titling rengas "renga"?
md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:23:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
i'm going crazy with the thrill of your rengalines baby i
can't get enough of them i just wish (whow whow wohw) i could read them more
fluently , fluidly as i've been told my old gender's spozed to--but i
can't get w/ da program n
it comes out all fragmenty on my screen.
god, send me your humble servant one continuouslongrengaorgasm rather than
these
sparks and spikes all broken up w/ e-symptoms, tho there are those who say
that's all part of the fun. i really am going nuts in this alerted altered
renga-itis w/drawal space, yes i've gone completely over the edge.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:44:54 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kit Robinson <krobinson@BANDO.COM>
Subject: A-24
Reply to: A-24
Cris,
To answer some of your questions out of order I can't remember
everything but. . . . Most of the Poets Theater work happened AFTER
A-24. By '78 maybe only a performance of FOH's Try! Try! at the Grand
Piano (w/ Carla Harryman, Nick Robinson, & . . . John Mason?) and
maybe a short play by Carla &/or Eileen Corder had been done. The Big
Productions (3rd Man, Mister Sister, The Alps, Collateral, Particle Arms,
Under the Midwest, etc.) at Studio Eremos came later. As for A-24, yeah,
it was fun. A lot of hard work, intense rehearsals, trying to get the timing
right. I don't remember awkwardness, just the difficulty of staying on the
beat and still rendering the proper expression, not to mention dynamics.
As in theater, a marvelous way to get to know a work. And I think we all
enjoyed the experience of working in a group, especially as writers normally
don't (all rengae aside).
Kit
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:27:24 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
Building on what Aldon and Carolyn are saying about inclusion into a
let us say mainstream, I can't help but note in this context Hank Lazer's
essay in the recenet APR of Charles Bernstein (though the only poems
of Charles' I recall seeing printed there in the past have been, to my
mind, uncharacteristic of his work over all and more like the kind of
stuff one usually sees in APR--but then again maybe the journal is
changing, seeing as how it has such a large spread on Armand Schwerner who
is not a Language poet but whose work is by no means for the casual reader).
Burt Kimmelman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:15:34 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509202241.WAA14900@fraser.sfu.ca>
on the day of the equinox Sheila, George and Jorge rode on Lionel trains
and sent rengas from the Finland Station
"The hell I did! GB"
>
> > > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> > > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> > > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> > > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> > > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> > > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> > > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> > > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> > > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> > > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> > >but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:07:17 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509202317.QAA03445@bob.indirect.com>
On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> >
> >> >>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, George Bowering wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >>> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >>> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> >>> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> >>> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> >>> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> >>> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> >>> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> >>> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >> >>> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> >> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> >> >thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
> >> the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
nothing maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
like the time we went to the ruins of sensible ideas and mom
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:33:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: renga writing --a proposal
Comments: To: poetics <poetics@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
let's start a new renga. everybody, anybody, write a first line.
Rules to follow:
have only ten words maximum per line (so renga fits in maria's screen)
when you add your line, erase chevron from line you are adding to
as well as "On (date) (name of rengan) wrote:" message. ok?
thanks
jorge
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:37:48 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Self-disclosure
Maria, you'll be happy to know that some would-be renga-line
contributors are still being shut out as before. Funny thing is it
was supposed to be one line from everyone wasn't it? Not that I
CARE that much.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:42:16 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: WCW
Who in hell wd actually publish Spring & All today and then who if
anyone would stock it on shelf? Volunteers? I reckon it ought to be
re-written to meet contemporary editorial requirements, with the text
in ORDER for instance.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:53:53 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: eric pape <ENPAPE@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950921105425.320A-100000@osf1.gmu.edu>
MFA programs may be the best recruitment agency yet developed for the
avant-garde (oppositional, experimental, pomo, multiculti, etc etc).
Due to its positioning among the academy, where some (few) folks are
beginning (just now) to question conventional modes of writing, workshop
type stuff (as it is stereotyped) seems more and more theoretically
bankrupt.
The best poets feel this, and look elsewhere.But...
The AWP is dead. Long live..........the AWP?
We'll see. I know I have still go a very long way to go before
I can finally purge the workshop from my writing.
Thanks, Eric.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:47:21 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: London readings
Forthcoming readings in London likely to be of interest to anyone from this list
who happens to be in town...
SubVoicive
at The Three Cups, Sandland St, WC1, Tuesdays at 8.00pm:
26 Sept Spencer Selby / Gavin Selerie
10 Oct Basil King / John Muckle
24 Oct Tim Fletcher / Stan Trevor
7 Nov Adrian Clarke / Allen Fisher
21 Nov John Wilkinson / Ken Edwards
5 Dec "Quick Hits" (sampling by numerous performers)
Poets & Writers
at the East-West Gallery, 8 Blenheim Crescent, W11, usually Mondays at 7.30pm:
9 Oct Nathaniel Tarn
23 Oct Thor Vilhalmsson / Matthias Johannessen (Icelandic writers)
6 Nov British Small Press series: 2. Coracle Press
27 Nov Eleni Sikelianos / Tim Atkins / Laird Hunt
11 Dec British Small Press series: 3. Gaberbocchus Press
...and on 16 Oct promoter Mike Goldmark is staging a commemoration of the famous
Albert Hall gig of the 1960s; 1995's performers are: Kathy Acker, Aidan Dun,
Brendan Kennelly, Douglas Oliver, Iain Sinclair, Brian Catling, Allen Ginsberg,
Sorley MacLean, Tom Pickard, Aaron Williamson, cris cheek, Michael Horovitz,
Alice Notley, Denise Riley, Benjamin Zephaniah. A bizarre motley, if you ask me.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:16:06 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: renga writing --a proposal
let's start a new renga. everybody, anybody, write a first
line.
Rules to follow:
have only ten words maximum per line
(so renga fits in maria's screen)
when you add your line, erase chevron from line you
are adding to
as well as "On (date) (name of rengan) wrote:" message. ok?
thanks jorge said the giant as she booted up her pc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:37:20 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Watts <cwatts@SFU.CA>
Subject: bye for awhile
Folks, I'll be away from e-mail for maybe as long as six weeks. I'll miss
the ongoing talk -- but will catch up with the archive when I get back to
the screen. Meanwhile, anyone who wants to can get in touch via snail mail:
Charles Watts, 1862 Parker Street, Vancouver, B.C. V5L 2L1, or by phone,
604-251-4378.
The project to publish papers given at the Robin Blaser conference last
June is ongoing; if you still haven't sent us a copy of your panel
presentation (nearly thirty people have so far), please do so. If you
have, my apologies for not having acknowledged receipt of your piece;
I've been more than busy lately. You'll be hearing from us (me and Ted
Byrne) as we have more to report, later in the fall.
So long for now,
Charles Watts
cwatts@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:34:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ann Lauterbach <Annotate@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Sep 1...
Jail is interesting. The problem is you cannot get out, even when you are so
clearly in. This is probably less about poetry than it is about the list to
which you subscribe but which you cannot ever read because the machine will
not allow you to. (For machine read the form of the setting, or the setting
of the form.) Glad for the equinox. Best wishes to those who continue to read
what is written.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:31:26 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this decade
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509211644.B539132447-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Sep 21, 95 04:15:34 pm
>
> on the day of the equinox Sheila, George and Jorge rode on Lionel trains
> and sent rengas from the Finland Station
>
> "The hell I did! GB"
>
> >
> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> > > > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> > > > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> > > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> > > > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> > > > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> > > > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> > > > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> > > > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
the outside corner, showering early while the Pirates
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:37:05 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>
>> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
>> > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
>> > but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sans snow, expansive though, fluent in half tones
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:41:44 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
>On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jurphy Sowering Borge wrote
>> >
>> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>> >> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
>> >> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
>> >> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
>> >> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
>> although reputation tends to weave a little of transfixive
>> which sticks to your clothes and makes you ineluctable
as timpanic surface potable though shrill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:43:03 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>Some fans of Dick Assman wrote
>
>> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>> >> >of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
>> >> >empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
>> >> libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
>> >> doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
>> puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
>> the grotto of our Lady of Corollaries during the Feast of the Enormity
with widgets handprinted with obvious mistakes in limited editions
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:52:40 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Self-disclosure
And another book to announce.
Minnesota Center for Book Arts is publishing TALKING THE BOUNDLESS BOOK:
ART, LANGUAGE, AND THE BOOK ARTS. I compiled and edited the collection of
talks which were given at Minn. Center for Book Arts's 1994 symposium, Art &
Language: Re-Reading the Boundless Book. I wrote the introduction, and there
are essays by Dick Higgins, Johanna Drucker, Steven Clay, Charles Bernstein,
Susan Bee, Amos Paul Kennedy Jr., Byron Clercx, Alison Knowles, Jo Anne
Paschall, Karen Wirth, Katherine Kuehn, Linda Reinfeld & Toshi Ishihara,
Colette Gaiter, and Brad Freeman. The essays range from artists talking
about their own works and those which have influenced them, to pieces on
hermeneutics and the book arts, the economics of small press/poetry
publishing, the social efficacy of the book arts, and more.
The book will be available the second week of November. Orders are being
taken now by
Ann Somers
Minnesota Center for Book Arts
24 North Third Street
Minneapolis, MN 55401
612-338-3634
The price is $15.95. A $4 shipping/handling charge will be added as well.
D.A.P is distributing the book to bookstores, and they are a good art
publication distributor, so you should see it in at least some bookstores
before Christmas.
Unfortunately, orders can not be taken online.
If the center gives me a more detailed announcement, I may post again about
this before long.
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:52:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: yet another anagram
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950921083015.25052C-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> from
"Gwyn McVay" at Sep 21, 95 08:32:04 am
Louis Cabri = Boils Curia or Curia Boils
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:57:16 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:00:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:03:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>on the day of the equinox Sheila, George and Jorge rode on Lionel trains
>and sent rengas from the Finland Station
>
>"The hell I did! GB"
>
>>
>> > > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> > > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> > > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> > > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> > > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> > > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> > > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> > > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
>> > > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>> > > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> > > >but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
> sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
of lathering first frost as noon comes on like torqued weed
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:05:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
nothing maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
like the time we went to the ruins of sensible ideas and mom
sold ice blue secret back to vendors parked where no shade
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:09:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:09:28 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509202317.QAA03445@bob.indirect.com> from "Sheila E. Murphy"
at Sep 20, 95 04:17:20 pm
On Sun, 21 Sep 1995, Sara Teasdale wrote:
> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >>> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>>> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> >>> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>>> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> >>> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> >>> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> >> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
> the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
>> maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
to Belarus stockmen deflowering everything in sight, grim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:17:30 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509220357.UAA15141@bob.indirect.com> from "Sheila E. Murphy"
at Sep 21, 95 08:57:16 pm
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:55:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>Some fans of Dick Assman wrote
>
>> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>> >> >of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
>> >> >empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
>> >> libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
>> >> doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
>> puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
>> the grotto of our Lady of Corollaries during the Feast of the Enormity
>with widgets handprinted with obvious mistakes in limited editions
shrink-wrapped to keep-out dangerfields and glut shelves of
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:05:15 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Renga is freedom to act. So I will not follow a
>Rengaroo! Wildebeests are per EB online headed
Info for those who feel slighted or ignored: old threads
are not dead but waiting in the Wings. Also, have you
not noted how many times a poster responds to a line
using a pseudonym to get things going?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 01:31:49 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Replies and thanks
Herb Levy and Zukofsky inquiries:
I didn't respond to my messages last night and I'm not through today's, but
I see that Herb Levy has thanked the list for the Zukofsky posts so I want
to stop my reading now and thank everyone as well. It would have been
better to say it sooner. I would also like to make a public thanks to Herb
who was so kind and generous to make the inquiries for me. I have all the
material and will see if I can get hold of a cassette or video.
Tenny Nathanson:
I congratulate them on their expansion
Whoops, that should be 'their' expansion
or "that there"
Ya.
Rod Smith:
If Gotham doesn't come through with Bottom I would love to get it through you.
They told me it would be a couple of weeks, so I'll be in touch with you then
and let you know whether they received it.
If the criteria for being a New Yorker, is being (creatively) rude on a
(fairly) regular basis, I qualify.
As far as the bearded man in St Marks, for some reason, I had the idea he
was the owner of the store. I don't know why. And I think I know the man
you are referring to at the Ear Inn and for some reason I have the same
thought about him. I think of him as the owner. It's an unconscious
assumption I have made, I guess, without a qualifying reason. Perhaps it's
the sense of authority they have, and I don't mean that negatively.
People with books:
I can see there are people who run bookstores on this list and I can see
that some of them are upset. I can only say that I have never had an
encounter in a bookstore like the one in St Marks, as far as I can
remember. I kind of think of bookstores as benign rather peaceful places.
Anyway ti's great to get all this info about where to buy books.
I should start a d base
b e s t w i s he s
b l a i r
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:37:59 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: oh really?
>Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:06:43 CDT
>From: eric pape <ENPAPE@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
>
>ed, et al: I toofind WCW boring. But it may be that I do because he is so
>easily imitated. So, I sometimes find O'Hara, Ginsburg, Hejinian, boring for
>the same reasons.
> Was it Picasso who said, very very roughly, "The most original art is
>ugly. Then someone comes along and makes it pretty." I don't know
>but can the term, or the concept, "boring" apply in the same way?
O'Hara is easy to imitate?????????????????
(often imitated, never duplicated?)
lessee!
(maybe this will replace renga?
dueling O'Hara imitations [by those who think it's easy?]
let the games begin?)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:39:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Distribution
Sorry I'm running late replying to this thread.
I am currently setting up a small press distribution network in Sydney
which will handle Australian small press stuff in the first instance but we
may well be able to take some os stuff after we get up and running. I'll
keep list members up to date. (we will also run stores at readings seminars
and the like and it may be possible to take one or two copies of o/s
magazines to sell on consignment that way - we'll see).
There have been a number of attempts to set up distribution networks in
Australia over the years. Most have them have fallen down because of the
distances involved. You really need to have staff in each capital city and
given Australia's small population and massive distances the economics just
don't add up. We are trying to overcome this by limiting ourselves to the
city and thye bookshops we know the best.
We will be also be setting up a virtual bookshop so a whole lot of
Australian small press publications should become available shortly via the
net.
regards
mark
(Australian Writing On Line)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:51:54 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:56:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
thanks to carolyn. good for you and your infiltrational activities. i've
kinda given up on umn, tho i've just started to meet groovy folks in the
mpls/stp area, un-univ. affiliated, who can be a meaningful support system
for interesting heartful smart lit. how have you done it, do you find you
need a lot of "clout" as a name-person? as an asst prof my efforts were
stymied by a tradition-bound dept and my own lack of power, now as an assoc,
i've lost interest in moving the unmoveables and am basically just taking
care of myself and a handful of interested students.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:22:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
wcw isn't boring because he's easily imitated; i don't find cage boring, tho i can't imagine anyone easier to imitate. the "boring" i think has to do with being somewhere between formerly useful and not quite historical (or commonly read as "was).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:30:46 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
well, jeffrey, i'd have to argue with "dialogue," too; there are poetries that are interesting to read that way, but essentially that's bahktin, who got tossed out quite a while ago. and in any case what's interesting is writing, not "about."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:37:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
rod: the objection has many sides, but for one: in reading wcw, we are in a language/proposition that must have startling once; but we're not there now. it's great-grandpa talking and chloroform, dulling; we need to get OUT. -ed
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:41:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: WCW
ron: i think the blandness (which i would locate primarily in places different from you--no surprise there) is in part due to the fact that spring & all is indeed read in certain quarters as if it were new. it's as new as g.o'k.: not!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:53:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: rebus aegis quotidian anger
> > > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> > > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> > > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> > > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> > > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> > > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> > >but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
we keep going back and forth about this poor guy's mane
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:05:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:11:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: the happy gnostic of my household
> >> >>> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >>> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >>> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >>> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >>> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >>> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> >>> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> >>> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> >>> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> >>> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> >>> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> >>> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >> >>> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> >> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> >> >thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
> >> the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
nothing maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
like the time we went to the ruins of sensible ideas and mom
slantways decolletage of the belated, the poems by John Ashbery
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:12:07 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: bye for awhile
In-Reply-To: <199509220137.SAA13693@monashee.sfu.ca> from "Charles Watts" at
Sep 21, 95 06:37:20 pm
I too must be off for a bit. I will also miss the chatter, but I just
havent the time to jump in or sift out my other mail. I will, however,
still be on email, so anyone who needs to get in touch with me regarding
TADS submissions can catch me at knighton@sfu.ca .
Take care and the like.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:13:27 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
>On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
>
>Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
>
>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
>
>of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
>empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
>libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
>or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
>nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
>where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
passacaglia without the prefab little knobbed things on them
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:16:07 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
monikered bellwether of the pall
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:21:32 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Distribution or Shoot
>Actually, _Shoot!_ was published in Toronto about a year ago.
Shoot, I didn't know that.
>Did you see/hear anything of Cecil while he was there last week?
George, you have the dates right but the month wrong. The "greatest pianist
in the world" (tm), and poet, Cecil Taylor is in Seattle for a week (doing
a student workshop with no performance scheduled) in October, I think
between the 14-18.
I don't know how many poets are signed up for this, but, uh, perhaps this
is this still more proof of the opening up of the workshop.
Or maybe not.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:26:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
Incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
the grotto of our Lady of Corollaries during the Feast of the Enormity
with widgets handprinted with obvious mistakes in limited editions
shrink-wrapped to keep-out dangerfields and glut shelves of
gutted elves' belongings so gravitied as not to quiver when
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:23:34 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:56:04 -0400 from
<MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Maria,
While any bureaucracy has its pull toward closing down the movements toward
energy, it seems as though the ripples can come from anywhere. When the
department holds its nose to progress, then build connections outside the
department. When the University suggests that it likes the way things are,
still nominate your most interesting students for the prizes. I am forever
optimistic that energy will have its impact on the bureaucratic system. I
am time and again the bureaucrat at Brown, putting the brakes on one or
another writers' great ideas (resources...limits...etc.). But we seem to
respect the need to let writing float into the atmosphere in as many ways
as possible. We have the great good fortune to have been founded by
sorts who have cosmpolitan/energetic ideas about literature -- and have
been able to sustain that tradition with new faculty hires. I'm sort
of the oddball in the mix (what is known here as a hybrid appointment, a
non-tenure-track administrator/teacher). The hours are frustrating, but
the environment is explosiv.
Gale Nelson
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:39:59 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: New ListServe
Pentium" Pro Processor Builds on Equity in Pentium Brand
On Sept 19,1995 -- Intel Corporation announced that "Pentium" Pro
processor" is the name for its next-generation microprocessor,
previously code-named P6. The 5.5 million transistor device will
be introduced in the fourth quarter of this calendar year, and will
be targeted at workstation and high-end desktop systems, as well as
cost-effective servers. The Pentium Pro processor will deliver the
highest level of performance on 32-bit software for the Intel
architecture.
"By naming the next-generation processor `Pentium Pro,' Intel is
building on the equity in the Pentium name while signifying that
this is something beyond the original," explained G. Carl Everett,
senior vice president, Desktop Products Group at Intel. "Among
target market segments, the Pentium brand has an awareness level as
high as 95 percent, according to our research. Intel believes the
next-generation processor will benefit immensely from this
association as we introduce it into the marketplace."
The Pentium Pro processor is the first product of a parallel
engineering effort undertaken by Intel in the early 1990s. Its
unique Dynamic Execution engine was conceived when today's Pentium
processor was still a software simulation. The compressed design
cycles of new generations of chips have resulted in the delivery of
some of the most powerful, low-cost microprocessors for a widening
spectrum of uses. For example, Intel was recently selected by the
U.S. Department of Energy to build a 9,000-processor computer based
on the Pentium Pro processor that will deliver 10 times the
performance of today's fastest supercomputers.
For more information on the Pentium Pro processor visit Intel's
home page on the World Wide Web at URL http://www.intel.com/.
Coming soon, those visiting Intel's web site will have the
opportunity to create a 3D image rendered on a Pentium Pro
processor-based web server located in Oregon. For more information
on the availability of the rendering machine, please subscribe to
Intel's Pentium Pro processor mailing list by sending an e-mail to
p6info-request@mailbag.intel.com and place the word "subscribe" in
the first line of the body of the message.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:38:19 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: AWPAPRWCWS&A
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
On the AWP part, I'm greatly enjoying this mutual infiltration process (sounds
like a new technique for brewing coffee); Gwyn, Carolyn, Brian, thanks for
your recent posts, and it's good to have you as part of the conversation. I
appreciate the anecdotal information (who's visiting where, who's reading
whom, who's writing what)--for me it's simultaneously fun gossip, usable
information, and stuff that helps me as a teacher to start de-monolithizing
the institution of the workshop. (How's that for a neologism? No Bruce Andrews
action doll could do better.)
Burt K. mentioned Hank's APR essay. I actually think APR has always been a bit
more eclectic than it's given credit for, but its eclecticism has less the
quality of a commitment to multiple writing practices, more the quality of the
startled twitch that one gives when one is suddenly woken up. ("Oops, looks
like we'd better pay attention to this, even if we are 15 or 20 years late.")
To put this another way, it's not yet clear to me that we're seeing, in APR,
more than a kind of belated tokenism attached to one of the big names of LP.
Charles is acutely attuned to these institutional/literary-sociological
issues, it seems to me. I don't agree, then, Burt, that APR has published work
of his in a traditionally APR mode. The poems they've carried are, in my
reading, progressively more blatant gestures of resistance to and satires on
that mode. If the editors don't get it after publishing the last one,
"Memories," then I feel sorry for them. (And if they've already gotten it and
aren't letting on, then good for them.) The real test for APR will be to see
if they start publishing lesser-known or under-published "experimental"
writers, as they do with their flush-left-first-persons.
My last few years teaching incline me to agree with Ron about Spring and All.
Students consistently find it a revelation, "a place of first permission" in
Duncan's phrase. My problem with the recent discussions pro and con is that
they seem to depend on reifying "The Red Wheelbarrow" as somehow synecdochic
of WCW's whole practice. (Granted, one or two folks here and there mentioned
other poems.) There's perverse precedent for this. New Critical resistance to
WCW for decades was based on objections, repeated mantra-like in critic after
critic, to "The Red Wheelbarrow." But one of the many great things about S&A
is its polymorphousness, lost when it's reduced to a handful of anthology
chestnuts. When I read the first ten lines or so of Spring and All #9 ("What
about all this writing?") or #6 ("No that is not it") I hardly recognize the
poet of "The Red Wheelbarrow" (not so titled, of course--not titled at all--in
the original S & A).
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:13:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: All the news in fits
In-Reply-To: <199509220404.VAA19409@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Thanks to Carolyn and all who followed with the good news of incipient
change -- Mason & Phoebe were dead as Ed thinks Williams is back when I
lived in the area -- & any opening out of the AWP news is news indeed --
I was getting tired of that "theory sucks & nobody can read anymore" line --
I too had noticed that a cadre of students was begninning to show up on
campus actually asking to read people like Bernstein, Palmer, Hejinian,
Berssenbrugge (of course, since I'd been playing the poetry of these
folk on the radio in hopes of creating such a demand, I can't claim to be
entirely caught off guard by this)
But we are mostly taliking about small inroads -- the reading program at
our campus is still firmly in the hands of a younger gurad with old guard
ambitions -- I have never been able to get _any_ body added to the list
-- Best I could do was get the guy to invite Mackey, who, living just
over the hill, didn't cost much money in travel -- but he wouldn't even
invite Nate till books from Cambridge & Coffee House & City Lights began
popping up all over the place --
With all this infiltration going on, maybe we will soon be the old farts
the new writers overthrow (perhaps with yet another return to
Williams?!?) -- not a bad fate to contemplate --
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:52:49 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kit Robinson <krobinson@BANDO.COM>
Subject: Minna Street
Reply to: Minna Street
Poetry & Performance Series
111 MINNA STREET GALLERY
(at 2nd St.) San Francisco
Lyn Hejinian & Travis Ortiz
September 18 / 8 o'clock / $3 donation
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:51:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this decade
In-Reply-To: <199509220331.DAA02453@fraser.sfu.ca>
> >
> > on the day after the equinox Sheila, George and Jorge
were returned to sender in a sealed wagon"
> > "The hell we were!" GB"
> >
> > >
> > > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> > > > > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> > > > > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> > > > > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> > > > > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> > > > > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> > > > > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> > > > > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> > > > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> > > > > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> > > > > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> > > > > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> > > > > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> > > > > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
> sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
> the outside corner, showering early while the Pirates
were irate without their pes & sent george bee to the miners
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:00:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509220337.UAA14866@bob.indirect.com>
> >> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >> > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> >> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> >> > but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
> sans snow, expansive though, fluent in half tones
> protomagnificent almost protosordid a proxy of ourselves as swellings
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:04:50 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: incursion / attaching to the host
I am glad to hear of Carolyn Forche's work at George Mason.
Intrigued too by the report from Iowa (& found that news rather
surprising). Personally, I have been committed to such work for
quite some time. Most recent results, the article on Charles
Bernstein in APR, and a section called "The Other South" in the
current issue of the New Orleans Review.
The APR essay was 40 pages in manuscript. APR did not cut the essay
at all--which surprised me. I sent it to them after calling Stephen
Berg and asking if he'd be interested. He made no commitment
whatsoever, said the essay would be read by the three editors. I
asked for a quick response--I assumed they would not take it, and I
would send it elsewhere quickly. After two months, I badgered them,
and they took the essay (that was about a year ago).
The special section in New Orleans Review--which includes work by
several people on this list (Paul Naylor, Jake Berry, Lisa Samuels,
etc.)--was put together by Bill Lavender. He did an extraordinary
job, locating an exciting range of "southern" (US) poetry. If you're
interested in the results, e-mail me backchannel. I have a few extra
copies, and would be glad to mail you one.
As in the previous discussion of independent bookstores ... if these
and other similar incursions appeal to you, it might be worthwhile to
write the editors and note your approval. I know that in the case of
the New Orleans Review, letters of support would lend credibility to
the wonderful work that Bill Lavender did. In fact, the magazine
might continue to give him space if there is an interest in the "new"
work.
And as part of this purgative de-lurking, I also have a collaborative
(with Yunte Huang) prose piece on Chinese poetry-politics in the
current issue of Central Park.
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:16:03 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: In case you haven't heard:
From: MX%"ebs@ebbs.english.vt.edu" 22-SEP-1995 09:59:59.54
To: MX%"ebs@ebbs.english.vt.edu"
CC:
Subj: Re: H-ASIA: More NEH programs suspended; others have deadlines
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:56:11 -0400
Errors-To: lhat@ebbs.english.vt.edu
Reply-To: ebs@ebbs.english.vt.edu
Originator: ebs@ebbs.english.vt.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: wall andrew p <93297149@BROOKES.AC.UK>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ebs@ebbs.english.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: H-ASIA: More NEH programs suspended; others have deadlines
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
See below. Martha
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
Regarding the NEH cutbacks and new program deadlines, here
>is a listing that came through H-Asia 2 days ago.
>Andrew Cohen
>------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
>
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:41:48 -0700
>Reply-To: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture <H-ASIA@msu.edu>
>Sender: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture <H-ASIA@msu.edu>
>From: Frank Conlon <conlon@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: H-ASIA: More NEH programs suspended; others have deadlines
> postponed
>To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA <H-ASIA@msu.edu>
>
> H-ASIA
> September 19, 1995
>
>More Bad News from National Endowment for the Humanities
>*****************************************************************************
>From: H-Net Central <CAMPBELLD@LYNX.APSU.EDU>
>
>N.E.H ANNOUNCES CHANGES IN APPLICATION DEADLINES
>
>Due to the uncertain funding level of the National Endowment for
>the Humanities at the beginning of the new fiscal year (October),
>there is a need to reorganize the agency's application review
>process.
>
>The following list indicates all application deadline changes to
>date. For all NEH programs not listed here, previously published
>application deadlines apply.
>
> Old deadline New deadline
>Division of Public Programs
>Projects in Media Oct. 1, 1995 Jan. 12, 1996
>(planning, scripting and production) March 1, 1996 Jan. 12, 1996
>
>Projects in Museums and Historical Orgns.
>(planning and implementation) Dec. 1, 1995 Jan. 12, 1996
>
>Projects in Libraries and Archives
>(planning and implementation) Nov. 1, 1995 Jan. 12, 1996
>
>Special Projects Nov. 1, 1995 Jan. 12, 1996
> March 1, 1996 Jan. 12, 1996
>
>National Conversation Special Comp. Nov. 24, 1995 NO CHANGE
>
>Division of Education Programs
>Higher Education
> No applications will be accepted for the Oct. 1, 1995, deadline.
> Applications for national summer institutes only will be accepted
> for the Feb. 1, 1996, deadline.
>
>Elementary and Secondary Education
> No applications will be accepted for the Oct. 1, 1995, deadline.
> Applications for national summer institutes only will be accepted
> for the Feb. 1, 1996, deadline.
>
>Science and Humanities: Integrating
> Undergraduate Education February 1, 1996 (Canceled)
>
>Division of Research Programs
>Archaeology Projects Oct. 1, 1995 (Suspended)
>
>Conferences Dec. 1, 1995 (Suspended)
>
>Dissertation Grants Oct. 16, 1995 (Suspended)
>
>Humanities Studies of Science/Tech. Oct. 1, 1995 (Suspended)
>
>Publication Subvention Feb. 1, 1996 (Suspended)
>
>Summer Stipends Oct. 1, 1995 (Suspended)
>
>Reference Materials (will be moved to Div. of Preservation and
>Access Dec. 1, 1995) Nov. 1, 1995 July 1, 1996
>
> information contact: info@neh.fed.us
>===========================================================================
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:04:41 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
In-Reply-To: <199509220341.UAA14937@bob.indirect.com>
> >On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jurphy Sowering Borge, Jr. wrote
> >> >
> >> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >> >> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
> >> >> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
> >> >> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
> >> >> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
> >> although reputation tends to weave a little of transfixive
> >> which sticks to your clothes and makes you ineluctable
> as timpanic surface potable though shrill
avatars, managing with just a couple of deflowering judases
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:11:24 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509220357.UAA15141@bob.indirect.com>
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
weave a pro toy aversion by the martyrs of cogency
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:16:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509220403.VAA15222@bob.indirect.com>
> >on the day of the locust sheila wrote
> >
> >>
> >> > > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> > > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> > > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> > > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> > > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> > > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> > > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >> > > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> > > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> >> > > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> > > > >but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
> > sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
> of lathering first frost as noon comes on like torqued weed
> sucking on the indescribable and taking the ineffable for a walk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:23:37 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509220405.VAA15263@bob.indirect.com>
On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
> the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
> nothing maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
> because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
> like the time we went to the ruins of sensible ideas and mom
> sold ice blue secret back to vendors parked where no shade
> was enough for Poco Macho and his shortcircuiting touch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:30:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509220409.XAA27231@freedom.mtn.org>
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:41:27 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509221613.JAA24230@bob.indirect.com>
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Charles Alexander wrote:
> >
> >Some ink-daubbed wretches wrote:
> >
> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> >
> >of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> >empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> >libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
> >or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
> >nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
> >where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
> passacaglia without the prefab little knobbed things on them
completely set on the sea as so much crabbiness
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:58:59 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: WCW
I've been quite interested in the ongoing WCW discussion. Normally,
I would be contra-Foster, but I've just been teaching and re-reading
Spring and All. Yes, Ron Silliman's point is, alas, correct: Spring
and All would still, today, be a difficult manuscript to get
published. And yes, Alan Golding, I believe, is right: for many
readers, including many today, Spring and All provides a place of
permission. But personally, this time through Williams, my own
response is closer to Ed Foster's--I'm not finding much that excites
me. Thus, back to points raised by Rod Smith and Ed Foster
both--when is a work "used up." For me, some WCW, including much of
Spring & All, is beginning to sputter, to run on fumes. Which makes
me want to re-read Paterson....?
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:53:25 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: John Cayley <cayley@SHADOOF.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: NEW publication from WellSweep Press
A new chapbook from WellSweep.
Yang Lian has been published in Talisman and Conjunctions 23.
Also he really exists (he's actually staying here with us at the=
moment),
so don't worry about the Yasusada syndrome.
Also, please check out Wellsweep's web site:
http://www.inforamp.net/~cayley/wshome.html
and a new page of sample poems published in its books:
http://www.inforamp.net/~cayley/wsamples.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
WHERE THE SEA STANDS STILL
Yang Lian
WellSweep Chinese Poets 6+
translated by Brian Holton
Yang Lian (born 1955) is one of the best-known of the so-called 'misty'=
or
'ambiguist' poets who came to prominence in China during the 1980s.=
He has
published six collections of poetry and two anthologies of prose=
in Chinese.
His work has been translated into many European languages, and English
versions of his poems have been widely published in magazines. WellSweep
brought out a book-length collection of his shorter poems, Non-Person
Singular in 1994. 'Where the Sea Stands Still' is the first complete
publication of Yang Lian's most recent work. It is the most important=
piece
he has written since leaving China. Yang Lian's ever-moving 'sea'=
stands
still in the midst of its restlessness; it is here in the midst of=
nowhere;
and in the space of the poem, time is swept away. Because of Odysseus,=
the
sea began its endless ebb and flow; when this sequence was written,=
the sea
stood still, and became an illusion.
Brian Holton teaches Chinese at the Universities of Newcastle and=
Durham. He
is also the translator of WellSweep's first collection of Yang Lian's
poetry, Non-Person Singular.
The book reproduces paintings inside and on the cover by Gao Xingjian,=
a
pioneer of avant-garde literature in China who is best-known internationally
as a dramatist. In 1989 Gao moved to Paris as a political exile and=
in 1992
he was made Chevalier de l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres de la France.=
His
paintings have been exhibited in numerous one-person and group exhibitions,
and are held in the collections of many public galleries throughout=
Europe.
32 pp, 21 x 13 cm, parallel text. 4 b/w illustrations.
GBP=A32.95 (US$6) pbk ISBN 0 948454 25 3
This edition is strictly limited to 200 copies. It is only available=
direct
from the publisher.
26 additional copies have been printed on special papers and bound=
by sewing
(rather than stitching). Inquiries welcome.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:25:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Scheil <cschei1@FREENET.GRFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <65E89C50D3A@as.ua.edu>
> hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
> leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
lunch as a pearl of sanitized dung in relation to
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:32:22 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Scheil <cschei1@FREENET.GRFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509221513.G538995820-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
> hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
> makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
Trappists to Morton's for piquant hor d'oeurveal persimmons on toast
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:46:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
>looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:53:06 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
> hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
> leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
truculence beside unlather of the little pacem dished out
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:53:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeffrey Timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
In-Reply-To: <01HVKPNFYJE08X0MTJ@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Well, fortunately, ed, WcW will not be "tossed out" anytime soon. Why
this penchant for purgation?
As for eric's and Hank's recent posts: geez, do I have to admit WcW is
not exactly exciting? To me it's not so much a question of
excitment/boredom as it is a matter of knowing why he did (DID) matter.
What was it he did that was (WAS) important? No where was this
discussed; matter of fact dismissal, while making good posts, is another
matter when it comes to accounting for a particular poets relevance.
Bahktin may not be cutting edge any longer, but is he any less useful?
NO, in case you thought otherwise. Peter Stallybrass's work with B. has
been very important and is still very relevant.
Two other things: eric: i was thinking about your picasso comment and
think that, yes, WcW is something along the same lines (though P. is
obviously more exciting and important)a; that is, he has been absorbed,
he no longer shocks. Have you listened to The Rite of Spring lately.
Those pounding rhythms must have been distressful at one point, but they
no longer shock. Quite tame, really, compared to the new Strapping Young
Lad CD.
I forgot the other thing.... Um.... Well, anyway, what I've found
disappointing about this exchange is the lack of discussion about why he
is boring. And, really, is that even a word to be using? I mean, I have
not learned a thing from such a dismissal. Tell me what's exciting. Or
let me tell you . . . .
Jeffrey Timmons
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Edward Foster wrote:
> well, jeffrey, i'd have to argue with "dialogue," too; there are poetries that are interesting to read that way, but essentially that's bahktin, who got tossed out quite a while ago. and in any case what's interesting is writing, not "about."
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:01:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>> >> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> >> > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> >> > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> >> > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> >> > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> >> > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> >> > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> >> > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
>> >> > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>> >> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
>> >> > but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
>> sans snow, expansive though, fluent in half tones
>> protomagnificent almost protosordid a proxy of ourselves as swellings
bunched like little creams in plastic slightly crumpled at the bottom of a purse
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:07:14 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
passacaglia without the prefab little knobbed things on them
completely set on the sea as so much crabbiness
diverts attention from wars in three voices and the steady rain of hemlock
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:08:54 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
of lathering first frost as noon comes on like torqued weed
sucking on the indescribable and taking the ineffable for a walk
to Paris via seed cigars and chicory and plantain butts
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 11:37:52 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Another Renga Request
Comments: To: cris cheek <cris@slang.demon.co.uk>
Comments: cc: Eryque Gleason <gleaeri@charlie.acc.iit.edu>,
semurphy@indirect.com, bowering@sfu.ca, lolpoet@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
In-Reply-To: <9509222331.aa09618@post.mail.demon.net>
Amen to what Cris is saying.
On the other hand I am thinking that perhaps no permission is needed in
any case because anything posted is in the public domain? EPC should be
thanked as courtesy. On the other hand, in the improbable case that some
money will be made from publishing any rengas in whole or in part,
perhaps the money should be donated to the institution where the list
originates, i.e., SUNY at Buffalo, which pays for EPC.
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, cris cheek wrote:
> Hi Eryque,
> I'm with Jorge's response on this one. And would say publish any version or
> branches you have copies of that you enjoy - as 'work in progress'.
> But I do feel that the Poetics list should be mentioned, as should the fact
> that many other contributions / interventions have affected the branching
> process and the choices made.
>
> love and love
> cris
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 19:22:57 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: renga
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
to Belarus stockmen deflowering everything in sight, grim
Homolkaesque behaviourists - but quality refrigerators:
forensically "I seem to be a verb"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:51:48 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
monikered bellwether of the pall
top crash, whose running gag was meat
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:15:23 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
lunch as a pearl of sanitized dung in relation to
mythology's transference of lettuce, permission to unleash
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:08:55 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
thereupon frocked simultaneities strangle muscles promiscuously
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:17:16 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
on Cynthia's knees, prompting treasure taken forgiveness sighing
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:14:52 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
>> >On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jurphy Sowering Borge, Jr. wrote
>> >> >
>> >> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
>> >> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
>> >> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
>> >> >> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
>> >> >> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
>> >> >> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
>> >> >> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
>> >> although reputation tends to weave a little of transfixive
>> >> which sticks to your clothes and makes you ineluctable
>> as timpanic surface potable though shrill
> avatars, managing with just a couple of deflowering judases
to brick the windows both ways just in time for
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:13:52 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
> hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
> makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
splits of shares like to be hitched to stories
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:11:16 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
truculence beside unlather of the little pacem dished out
strings, nothing but straps and laces, potatoes mashed fine
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 19:00:40 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: eric pape <ENPAPE@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: oh really?
In-Reply-To: <199509220537.WAA19933@web.azstarnet.com>
(Gulp) Okay. Here goes.
When the Senorita Died
12: 24 and Chimes Street is all perturbed with heat.
It's summer, five days after the Shrimp and
Petroleum Festival, yes, and I am looking for a tab
with my coffee. I have to see Jackie and Dennis
for a late lunch, but at this point, all I am
thinking about is where I will find my next hit.
At the Lebanese, I have an Abita and
cheese fries and buy APR to see what folks
are doing in the real world. There's a feature
on Merwin and something about the Pacific
but I toss it into the street
and go to the Varsity because Alice (Quietcar, I think)
will be tending bar and she gives out free martinis
if you can remember who played the night before.
The cool thing is she never knows so I say Orlando
and for once she doesn't check with the front desk
and shakes up a 'tini while I wait.
This is Louisiana, so I head off with drink in hand
to Highland, for the latestHaraway, but find it
all too langweilig so sit by Godfather's
to watch until Dolores comes by
because she always has Wired and US News
and World Report and on the front page I
see here name outlined in red ink,
and I shiver and I remember Four Aces in Brownsville
trying to piss in a trough with five other fellows
while while she whined a song along with the accordian
and everyone and I stopped micturating
INcidentally, I should say that I am working on my exams now, and at some
point in my life will surely discredit everything that I've said on this
list so far for the reason that I am very very grouchy.Also, isn't it still
true that the sincerest form of flattery is imitation (please say so)?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:12:44 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
Trappists to Morton's for piquant hor d'oeurveal persimmons on toast
frocking replies tuned to tongue's pleasure, training skin for release
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:56:43 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: publications
In response to Charles Bernstein's request: My only book publication
is U. S. OBSERVATORIES (Van Nostrand Reinhold). This is a book about
observatories. It has a number of good pictures in it, taken by
observatories, who have very good cameras. The book is out of print
and if anyone sees it in the astronomy section of a used book store I
wish you would buy it and let me buy it from you since I only have
2-3 copies myself. It tends to get stolen from libraries.
Lots of people think they are imitating WCW-- poor Zelda
thought she was Pavlova.
Tom Kirby-Smith.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:54:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/Dangerous Poets
thanks gale, good to hear/see from you, and to some extent, esp w/ students,
it happens "naturally" --(like, who else wd i nominate for prizes --my most
boring students?, and yes, that works, tho because of my limited credibility
--my intellectual orientation is considered eccentric by my shakespearean and
woolfian colleagues --my students end up w/ the $500 prizes rather than the
$1500 main prizes --it's still something, and they feel supported and
believed in, which is the most impt. thing). my ego still gets in there,
tho, and that's one of the main casualties of this professional life, i think
--in a field where intellectual property is everything, it can hurt to do
something for years and not get anywhere, then some shallow hotshot (or worse
yet, some square with a lot of local institutional power who suddenly
"discovers", say , lyn hejinian) comes in and with one word makes your field
legit --but you still don't get any "credit"... well, that's an issue for the
daily meditation practice i guess and while it's as "real" or unreal as
anything else and thus merits saying, it merits saying only so that one (i)
can then move beyond that sphere of concern and be really real, like, do my
own thing and invite others to join...i.e. more of same...sorry everyone for
airing these petty ego concerns but some of you might just relate...i
hope.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:03:30 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>> hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>> stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
>> makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
> Trappists to Morton's for piquant hor d'oeurveal persimmons on toast
becoming to sheer crystal plain pure tulip glasses raised
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:30:43 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509222307.QAA03227@bob.indirect.com>
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
passacaglia without the prefab little knobbed things on them
completely set on the sea as so much crabbiness
diverts attention from wars in three voices and the steady rain of hemlock
falling on the Concerns box & a sob distant as adventure capital
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:17:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Invasion of the Annoying Chevron
In-Reply-To: <199509222301.QAA03134@bob.indirect.com>
> >> >> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> >> > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> >> > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> >> > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> >> > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> >> > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> >> > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> >> > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> >> > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> >> > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >> >> > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> >> > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> >> >> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> >> >> > but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
> >> sans snow, expansive though, fluent in half tones
> >> protomagnificent almost protosordid a proxy of ourselves as swellings
> bunched like little creams in plastic slightly crumpled at the bottom of
a purse that the Comedy of It gave to The Fewer Embers in 1923
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:35:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Scheil <cschei1@FREENET.GRFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509222246.PAA02746@bob.indirect.com>
> >hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> >made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
> >looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
> to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
in a Flintstone's ziplock--presents for Mama, vermouthing the wheel
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:40:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509221626.JAA24525@bob.indirect.com>
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
Incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
the grotto of our Lady of Corollaries during the Feast of the Enormity
with widgets handprinted with obvious mistakes in limited editions
shrink-wrapped to keep-out dangerfields and glut shelves of
gutted elves' belongings so gravitied as not to quiver when
"When Worlds Collide" is shown in both worlds colliding
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:36:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509222308.QAA03258@bob.indirect.com>
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
of lathering first frost as noon comes on like torqued weed
sucking on the indescribable and taking the ineffable for a walk
to Paris via seed cigars and chicory and plantain butts
mixed with automaton condolences nixed by Dr. Reynolds
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:40:25 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Cris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>>
>> >> >>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 19/9/95 C adding to J adding to C adding to S
>> >> >>in the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.And flew
>> >> >>spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >> >>that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>> >> >>say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>> >> >>than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >> >>go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >> >>& where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>> >> >>ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >> >>from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> >> >>ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop's stigmata
>> >> >>this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> >> >>detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>> >> >>I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
>> >> >>the night I told you to stop referring to me as Ontology Boy
>> >> >and you replied all shrouded in epistemology that it was glue we lacked
>> >> "ckab oups frert cdl-fdl!!" with elvis projecting "uhhhh, I'm all stuck
>> >>in the epoxy I used to cement my relationship w/ Thou, the Dead Quaker
>> who who traipses a paradigm sweat under lights and then fixes
> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>groin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> permit holders >>> inters the sneak >>>> impossible "part"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:03:57 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: rebus aegis quotidian anger
we keep going back and forth about this poor guy's mane
or colored name a la birthday wrapping ribbon all cello-phane
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:12:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509222253.PAA02919@bob.indirect.com>
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
truculence beside unlather of the little pacem dished out
as the set of mediocre results which luckily included itself
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:43:31 -0700
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From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
Incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
the grotto of our Lady of Corollaries during the Feast of the Enormity
with widgets handprinted with obvious mistakes in limited editions
shrink-wrapped to keep-out dangerfields and glut shelves of
gutted elves' belongings so gravitied as not to quiver when
blood ran before the crest masts unfurled before the
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:05:10 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
rengalines lead me to that fluttering Word
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 03:40:00 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: All rengae sound the same
After the first 500 examples, or thereabouts, all these rengae begin to
take on a terrible sameness, even the new threads. Maybe it has to do
with that slightly overbloated line length that seems so invariable.
What is it about this form that imposes these limitations?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:15:47 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: renga writing --a proposal
rather than start a new renga myself (performance anxiety) i need to amend my
earlier statement abt sympathizing w/ renga-deleters. what i' finding, and
this is an interesting tho not novel or unpredictable revelation to me about
my own mind, technology etc --is this: because i can't "skim" the rengas but
have to really read them, they are alternately the most thrilling,
life-giving msgs on the list, and the most distracting and daunting. when
i'm panicked for time --as i now am, being on aol rather than a gratis univ.
system --it takes a commitment of attention i initially resent but (like
schlepping to the library to do research) ends up being gratifying in
unpredictable ways --i never know what i'll learn, and the rengas alter my
consciousness more than, say, my own whining about lack of institutional
support for my field, or discussions about the usefulness of wcw.
by the way, what does "a single angel is frightening" mean: that more angels
are less frightening because angels are not meant to be alone, or that if a
single angel is scary, imagine how scary a whole flock wd be?-md
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:51:38 +0000
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From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this decade
>> >
>> > on the day after the equinox Sheila, George and Jorge
>were returned to sender in a sealed wagon"
>> > "The hell we were!" GB"
>> >
>> > >
>> > > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> > > > > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> > > > > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> > > > > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> > > > > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> > > > > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> > > > > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> > > > > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> > > > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> > > > > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> > > > > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> > > > > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> > > > > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
>> > > > > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
>> but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
>> sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
>> the outside corner, showering early while the Pirates
> were irate without their pes & sent george bee to the miners
a seachange to order as happy as money could meld me a rope
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:46:10 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509222308.QAA03258@bob.indirect.com>
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
of lathering first frost as noon comes on like torqued weed
sucking on the indescribable and taking the ineffable for a walk
to Paris via seed cigars and chicory and plantain butts
a powdery king of aftertaste but all right
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 03:27:22 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: WCW
Ed, a good part of what makes your stance unconvincing is how much it
depends on actions that occur without agency (e.g., Bahktin who "got
tossed out awhile ago" without saying why or who did such tossing). As
someone who was reading him in '72 and felt that the whole fad served
only to bring works into print and who was pleased to see the MLA kudzu
die back from that arena, I still find real value in his work. And
Williams also. There is an assumption in your stance that just because
someone's work is situated in a context, say, of the 1930s, that its
value remains there. In fact, even when someone undergoes an intense
period of adoption, as WCW did (or Olson or Duncan or Creeley more
recently), it is arguable whether all that exists within the work ever
gets excavated by readers or usefully understood by other
practitioners. One can read Wordsworth absolutely for his contemporary
(or as they say at Duke, post-contemporary) values. Why not Williams
also? What about all this writing?
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:39:11 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509221511.D538995820-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
weave a pro toy aversion by the martyrs of cogency
but not for long. Mog oos a grayup lad n fast aboot it
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:44:12 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509222307.QAA03227@bob.indirect.com>
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
nutting nothing a-merrily dead bodies abandon
where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
passacaglia without the prefab little knobbed things on them
completely set on the sea as so much crabbiness
diverts attention from wars in three voices and the steady rain of hemlock
in three or four without babies set at nine
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:46:02 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
The Bell Curl
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> Bananas and coconut grove's ashes Phoenix rose and o
> o, o, the Murdochian rag, ok stop dick stop spot ate puff
the mAGIC drag Queen to Pawnshop to pick up an assault
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:11:48 -0700
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From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: NEW publication
Maybe not new to everyone, but 1995 vintage:
David Miller - STROMATA - from Burning Deck
a splendid creation - don't miss it
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:40:46 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>JG wrote:
>>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
>>> >
>>> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>>> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>>> >> >> >>> >> (...)
>>> >> >> >>> >>
>>> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>>> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
>>> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
>>> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>>> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>>> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
>>> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>>> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>>> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>>> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>>> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>>> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
>>and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
>for the brevity inferred and for the latchkey touch more like a feather
>drizzling ribs trained sultry moments gathering to migrate south
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:22:32 -0700
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From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:39:59 -0400
>From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
>Subject: New ListServe
>
>Pentium" Pro Processor Builds on Equity in Pentium Brand
Bill--
is this news or poetry (I know people are miserably dying for lack of the
news there--boring, right?--but really....?)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:08:57 -0700
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From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: renga - oldies but goodies
> >
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> The caravan of windows to what they flee
> >> These lace curtains, more gauze than bondage, more
> >> Mollycoddled than aware, thin-spined and pebbling
> >> but narrow in the waist or waspish Sunday years ago
> >> Over coffee topped with whipped cream, the Times blowing
> > & opining, heavy humid air, cumulus amusing against the
> > bleached ribcage ripcorded into compassed wind
> floating, held open, adrift in different directions, she
cast off she could move twitching gone the way of
Adrift in Post-traumatic Space (2)
"309.89 Post-traumatic Stress Disorder
A. The person has experienced an event that is outside the
range of usual human..."
B.
(1)
Th Mauled tots swim rec
etr my mind's eye all urr
au askew, asunder. ent
mat an
ic Death on the playground: d i
eve "C'mon, let us play ball!" ntr
nt Action speaks. usi
is ve
ree I absent myself some. rec
exp And then further inure. oll
eri Faraway Rockaway prison ect
enc ion
ed Enwrap pain. One way s o
in ticket to Siberia. f t
at Return naked on nails. he
lea eve
st one of the following ways:
...numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the
trauma) as indicated by at least three of the following:...
(6) restricted range of affect, e.g., unable to have loving feelings..."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:07:20 -0400
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From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Flossy & WCWs army of ah whatever
OK I'm with this:
>the "boring" i think has to do with being
>somewhere between formerly useful and not quite historical
tho hold out for bits of _Imaginations_ -- so, what's so bad abt Bakhtin
again? Is Olson in the same space as WCW, do ya think?
Remember an interview w/ a Poundian named Carlo Parcelli where the
interviewer asked him, really, "What makes Olson so good?" & he replied
"Because he's not a poet, he's a historian."
Which I still find both interesting & cause for loss of cookies.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:13:04 -0700
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From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>weave a pro toy aversion by the martyrs of cogency
who blather anyway with wrinkled tongues
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:40:54 +0000
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From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
>Jorge, the Nobel Savage, wrote
>
>> >> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> [savage edit]
>> >> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
>> >> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
>> >> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
>> >> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
>> >> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
>> >> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
>> >> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
>> >> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
>> > with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
>> fishing around with like with like and let it get too cold, "Hey,
> tell us apart" "Don't be saussure, tracy". "The name is trace, pal"
spun on painted heels, then "vanishing, not varnishing!" her smile
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:22:27 -0700
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From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: WCW, agreeing w Alan G (me not WCW)
I recall that way back when Douglas Messerli was still teaching, at Temple,
he had only one outraged graduate seminar (being of course an otherwise not
only brilliant but beloved instructor): in a modern poetry course he
spozedly taught /Spring & All/ & /Kora in Hell/, and the students were just
irrevocably non-plussed--and Temple wasn't, as it isn't, ahem, Iowa, or I
guess in light of recent posts I should say "Iowa."
Gen-you-wine OH-pacity.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:42:56 -0400
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From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: MFA Agents/the lake a lilac cube
Think what's dangerous is certainly contextual. Are, in the phrase of a
friend of mine, the "so-called Nuyoricans" dangerous? Somehow, on MTV, no.
But in person some of them, powerful, convincing, useful.
The infiltration oddly neither group nor individual-- walking into a workshop
situation there seems group resistance to "experimental," but individual,
perhaps, acceptance. Though this is also a matter of search for group
vocabulary with which to discuss these things, if one imposes the terms it
becomes rote & nobody learns anything. So I'm neither comfortable nor
uncomfortable teaching, but consider, suppose "we" "win"-- what does *that*
mean. This is putting it on the line folks, will the terms change, even a
little? Since this seems my night to quote interviews, in the Cage/Retallack
thing I published she asked him whether he thought artists could change "the
grammar of the way we are together." His response was a long pause & then "we
don't know, but we can try." Seems to me we're really talking about trying to
change what Weber called "the iron cage or bureaucracy" & we'd oughta be
prepared to fail grandiosely &/"or else" succeed,
w/ a whimper (not a bang).
--Rod. dreadfully sorry, but it's 4:41 a.m.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:58:20 +0000
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From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
>> >> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>> >> > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>> >> > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
>> >> > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
>> >> > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
>> >> > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
>> >> > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
>> >> > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
>> >> > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
>> >> > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
>> >> > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
>> >> > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
>> >> > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
>> >> > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
>> >> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
>> >> > but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
>> sans snow, expansive though, fluent in half tones
>> protomagnificent almost protosordid a proxy of ourselves as swellings
framed a pride of loans heaped onto bonding sloth "Enough of all
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:11:31 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
>leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
>lunch as a pearl of sanitized dung in relation to
>mythology's transference of lettuce, permission to unleash
a rinse as whimsy over the leafed personalities of
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:14:05 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
>makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
>thereupon frocked simultaneities strangle muscles promiscuously
because theorems are delicious basked rather than fortified
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:15:35 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
>looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
>to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
>on Cynthia's knees, prompting treasure taken forgiveness sighing
that what weather blanches likes to crop and crops become our
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 18:13:29 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Scheil <cschei1@FREENET.GRFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509242111.OAA20597@bob.indirect.com>
> >hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> >stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
> >leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
> >lunch as a pearl of sanitized dung in relation to
> >mythology's transference of lettuce, permission to unleash
> a rinse as whimsy over the leafed personalities of
Matador X^Nth, his treacly morbidity glee, his pubic toupee, his
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:59:01 GMT+1200
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From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Renga moan
I've stopped reading them. Auto-delete wd be handy. Not only
line-length, but the "improbabilities" are getting repetitive.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:53:29 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - oldies but goodies
oldies but goodies magnificent fun! awarming floater chevrons, india
november delta apple, gloria soames!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:54:57 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
a bit slow on the apres coup mais nonetheless love ya babe
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:09:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Distribution
(Sorry if you receive this twice - the Sydney Uni server was down on the
weekend and I'm note sure whether this got through)
Sorry I'm running late replying to this thread.
I am currently setting up a small press distribution network in Sydney
which will handle Australian small press stuff in the first instance but we
may well be able to take some os stuff after we get up and running. I'll
keep list members up to date. (we will also run stores at readings seminars
and the like and it may be possible to take one or two copies of o/s
magazines to sell on consignment that way - we'll see).
There have been a number of attempts to set up distribution networks in
Australia over the years. Most have them have fallen down because of the
distances involved. You really need to have staff in each capital city and
given Australia's small population and massive distances the economics just
don't add up. We are trying to overcome this by limiting ourselves to the
city and thye bookshops we know the best.
We will be also be setting up a virtual bookshop so a whole lot of
Australian small press publications should become available shortly via the
net.
regards
mark
(Australian Writing On Line)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:56:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509242115.OAA20656@bob.indirect.com>
> >hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> >made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
> >looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
> >to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
> >on Cynthia's knees, prompting treasure taken forgiveness sighing
> that what weather blanches likes to crop and crops become our
> Anybody-Who-Had-Not-Had-Any idol so we ready the implementator
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:53:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
In-Reply-To: <9509222332.aa09790@post.mail.demon.net>
Cris "Turn the Other" Cheek, the Noble Metal Dude wrote
> >
> >> >> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> [savage edit]
> >> >> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
> >> >> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
> >> >> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
> >> >> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
> >> >> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
> >> >> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
> >> >> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
> >> >> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
> >> > with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
> >> fishing around with like with like and let it get too cold, "Hey,
> > tell us apart" "Don't be saussure, tracy". "The name is trace, pal"
> spun on painted heels, then "vanishing, not varnishing!" her smile
> like a large oblong condolence:"You pervasive you! Just kidding!"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:46:44 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509222313.QAA03359@bob.indirect.com>
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
weave a pro toy aversion by the martyrs of cogency
who blather anyway with wrinkled tongues
i emptied the elf so that you and the felucca could fight
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:43:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
In-Reply-To: <9509222332.aa09728@post.mail.demon.net>
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, cris cheek wrote:
> >JG wrote:
> >>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
> >>
> >>> >SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/18/95
> >>> >
> >>> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
> >>> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
> >>> >> >> >>> >> (...)
> >>> >> >> >>> >>
> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
> >>> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread been-to
> >>> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much longer
> >>> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
> >>> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
> >>> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small world"
> >>> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
> >>> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
> >>> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
> >>> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
> >>> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
> >>> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
> >>and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
> >for the brevity inferred and for the latchkey touch more like a feather
> >drizzling ribs trained sultry moments gathering to migrate south
> no one so maybe-ed became an ornament before the chastening playoffs
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:34:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509230103.SAA05488@bob.indirect.com>
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
Trappists to Morton's for piquant hor d'oeurveal persimmons on toast
becoming to sheer crystal plain pure tulip glasses raised
it's not a exploded view vs papier bleau issue
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:29:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509222313.QAA03444@bob.indirect.com>
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
splits of shares like to be hitched to stories
about stabat pater doloroso with kidney statuettes
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:25:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the reich
In-Reply-To: <199509222314.QAA03534@bob.indirect.com>
> >> >On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jurphy Sowering Borge, Jr. wrote
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >> >> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >> >> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >> >> >> >who pester as obsession or a hobby or as fraction of a prayer,
> >> >> >> >towering above us with a lot of bothersome >>>>>>>>>>>>,s
> >> >> >> measured at density 21.5 along with a "d" added to first name
> >> >> >> of DDaniel who saw Adonai and believe me he was no Adonis
> >> >> although reputation tends to weave a little of transfixive
> >> >> which sticks to your clothes and makes you ineluctable
> >> as timpanic surface potable though shrill
> > avatars, managing with just a couple of deflowering judases
> to brick the windows both ways just in time for
> the portion of laceration that was olympisized
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:22:26 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <9509222343.aa11286@post.mail.demon.net>
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
monikered bellwether of the pall
top crash, whose running gag was meat
and was edible with pointy head crushed body yellowish
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:20:29 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga
In-Reply-To: <9509240122.AA134756@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Louis Cabri wrote:
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
> the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
> maimed, my parents won't let me play with density
> because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
> to Belarus stockmen deflowering everything in sight, grim
> Homolkaesque behaviourists - but quality refrigerators:
> forensically "I seem to be a verb"
but mereologically i am an anominal clitic
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:11:17 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: News Too
In-Reply-To: <199509250403.VAA17725@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Speaking of hot shots -- Dinesh D'Souza has just published a book, _The
End of Racism_, in which he asserts that slavery was not a racist
institution. Young Mr. D'Souza got a grant five times the size of yours
to "research" this book, and has been featured in two successive issues
of the Chronicle of Higher Ed. -- He shows that he is not a racist by
disagreeing with _The Bell Curve's_ arguments that intelligence is both
hereditary and racial, then proceeds to argue that black Americans just
happen to belong to a culture whose unwise life choices leads to them
doing less well on intelligence tests.
Back in the forties, C.L.R. James wrote that "It is instructive to read
the old monographs, articles, volumes, disputes on Negro intelligence,
tests, the shape of the head, the weight of the brain, etc. Today all
that is dead."
well, you can't be right all the time -- but now that racism is at its
"end" I suppose we don't need to worry about such things anymore --
As another former D.C. resident used to say:
"Makes me wanna holler, throw up _both_ my hands!"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 14:11:03 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: French Poetry Festival in October
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:24:39 EDT from
<EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Gwyn,
(Sorry to everyone else as this should be directed) -- does the AWP have
back-issues of the Chronicle going back to origins? Christina Milletti,
a graduate student here at Brown, is researching the Chronicle, but cannot
get her hands on the early issues.
Her electronic address is Christina_Milletti@brown.edu.
Many thanks, and apologies to everyone else.
Cheers,
Gale Nelson
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:02:02 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The News
In-Reply-To: <199509250403.VAA17725@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Thousnads of people died today for want of what could be found in poetry
in what authorities are describing as the most tragic aesthetic disaster
of the century. Exact figures are not yet available, but New Jersey
disaster relief officials describe their region as particularly hard
hit. One survivor interviewed at the Joyce Kilmer rest stop reported
that she narrowly averted the fate that suddenly befell all those around
her because she happened to glance at a scrap of verse someone had
written on a wall just as nearly all the other passengers in her van
collapsed from ennui.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:50:02 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga moan
Somebody give the Rengaists a chat line of their own and/or an electronic
magazine. Is "Poetics" the same thing as "Poetry"? I don't mean to be
restrictive, but, as the joke goes about the husband (no sexism intended) who
petitions the judge for a divorce from his wife of fifty years, and the
judge asks, why, after all this time could you possibly want a divorce, the
husband replies, "Enough is enough already!"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:38:52 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: All rengae sound the same
Hey Ron!
You mean to say that you have actually READ the last five hundred rengae?
When I see a renga, I reach for that good ol' delete key.
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:37:30 -40962758
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Rosenberg <jr@AMANUE.PGH.NET>
Subject: Is _Poetics Journal_ Dead?
The subject pretty much says it all. I have a piece that is supposedly due
out in the next issue of _Poetics Journal_, but it's been in this state for
*years* & I've been assuming the magazine simply died. Does anyone know if
it is "officially" dead?
--
Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/
CIS: 71515,124
WELL: jer
Internet: jr@amanue.pgh.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:05:16 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "W. Northcutt" <William.Northcutt@UNI-BAYREUTH.DE>
Subject: Royal Albert Hall Do-wingy
I may be able to spring a trip to the poetry wing-ding at the Albert Hall.
Would yer be so kind as to send me information/or list it in the group on
how to get seats, and the date, time, etc... William Northcutt
william.northcutt@uni-bayreuth.de
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 21:56:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509242115.OAA20656@bob.indirect.com> from "Sheila E. Murphy"
at Sep 24, 95 02:15:35 pm
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
on Cynthia's knees, prompting treasure taken forgiveness sighing
that what weather blanches likes to crop and crops become our
sinecures till old age beckons with a tower of '45s
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:12:29 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
>>Jorge, the Nobel Savage, wrote
>>
>>> >> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
>>> >> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
>>> >> [savage edit]
>>> >> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
>>> >> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
>>> >> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
>>> >> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
>>> >> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
>>> >> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
>>> >> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
>>> >> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
>>> > with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
>>> fishing around with like with like and let it get too cold, "Hey,
>> tell us apart" "Don't be saussure, tracy". "The name is trace, pal"
>spun on painted heels, then "vanishing, not varnishing!" her smile
impossibly relaxed when thinking about pain beside the capability of boredom
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:24:22 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New ListServe
>Pentium" Pro Processor Builds on Equity in Pentium Brand
> On Sept 19,1995 -- Intel Corporation announced that "Pentium" Pro
> processor" is the name for its next-generation microprocessor,
> previously code-named P6. The 5.5 million transistor device will
> be introduced in the fourth quarter of this calendar year, and will
> be targeted at workstation and high-end desktop systems, as well as
> cost-effective servers. The Pentium Pro processor will deliver the
> highest level of performance on 32-bit software for the Intel
> architecture............
But can it add up??????
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 19:11:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Naming in America
Tenney, to Billy Luoma's post,
>>Pentium" Pro Processor Builds on Equity in Pentium Brand
>
you commented
>is this news or poetry (I know people are miserably dying for lack of
the news there--boring, right?--but really....?)
>
I took this as a post on naming in society, circa 1995, and found it
absolutely compelling. The Pentium Pro, which will be a household name
in about 3 years, is what we once would have called a "686" had the
copyright laws not failed to protect Intel's claim to ownership of the
"xx86" convention for computer chips. Note that Intel, which invoked
the figure 5 in its Pentium, does not continue the stepping process
with this next generation chip. That is an attempt to shake off AMD and
the other clone chip manufacturers and parallels, at least at a
distance, Microsoft's leaping changes in its Microsoft Word for
Windows, which went from 2.0 to 6.0 without intermediate steps (which
existed, however, in DOS) and from Windows 4.0 (nee "Chicago") to
Windows 95 (a name that's going to get OLD fast).
While they're not as aggressively silly and Americo-centric as the
internet features named after Archie comix characters, it's worth
noting that the naming styles of the computer industry have had (and
are having, as we speak (if this be speech)) differs dramatically from
the nature of such conventions earlier in the century. I forget who
first noted that discourses that are insecure about their knowledge
tend to be pompous in their terminologies, viz. the use of Latin to
characterize in English what Freud simply called the I, the it and the
superI. Or structuralism's love of acronyms (think of Althusser and all
that type wasted on ISA, RSA etc.).
I already feel "fond" of how Pentium Pro suggests that the Pentium chip
itself is somehow amateurish (up until 6 months ago, 95 percent of all
Pentium systems were being sold to home users--the corporate ramp-up is
very slow, but the home buyer wants the full suite of bells and
whistles NOW).
Sincerely yours
Ron (486DX2) Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:35:43 -0400
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From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>weave a pro toy aversion by the martyrs of cogency
who blather anyway with wrinkled tongues
"I dig a pygmy, by Charles Autry and the Deaf-Aids,"
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:36:19 -0400
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From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
>makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
>thereupon frocked simultaneities strangle muscles promiscuously
because theorems are delicious basked rather than fortified
nature kids, I / they don't have no function
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:47:54 -0400
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From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: disadvised quotation from ford madox ford
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
sassafras is my powerlessness to split scintillas in the mist
of lathering first frost as noon comes on like torqued weed
sucking on the indescribable and taking the ineffable for a walk
to Paris via seed cigars and chicory and plantain butts
mixed with automaton condolences nixed by Dr. Reynolds
"God damn _you_, Mr. Henley. Hasten the chinchilla!"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:01:18 -0400
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From: "Jordan Davis." <Jordan70@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: All rengae sound the same
Last day at old aol which seems to send me a clump of messages in the morning
(or is it the buffalo doing that) so if people (people) have sent messages of
greater cogency on this, sorry, I spoke (wrote?) partly deaf--
but the binding rules are pretty clear,
a line has to be so long, and so opaque (I mean interruptive,
I suspect a renga (have you seen the renga on the web? I think it's listed
through Yahoo--not this renga, one re: Hiroshima..)
I suspect a renga of lines half the length might invoke
fewer ghosts of blank verse
plural of renga is rengae? I guess so
Jordan Davis (from now on at jdavis@panix.com)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:16:14 -0400
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From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: All rengae sound the same
In-Reply-To: <00996EB3.305CC4F2.1@admin.njit.edu>
It's interesting, finally, to think of poetry as viral; I tend to do the
same. Surely here it's without ceremony, driving out other writing as well.
Poetry as substance, something to think about.
Alan
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT wrote:
> Hey Ron!
>
> You mean to say that you have actually READ the last five hundred rengae?
> When I see a renga, I reach for that good ol' delete key.
>
> Burt
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:37:54 -0700
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From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: New Form Re:renga oldies but goodies
On Sep 24 Maria Damon wrote:
>oldies but goodies magnificent fun! awarming floater chevrons, india
>november delta apple, gloria soames!
Soup's on. The line Wavers
bid adieux as we drift up the styxx and stones never give an even
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:22:15 -0700
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From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Renga Request
Jorge -
While few people (if any) go to the trouble to register copyright for
anything they post to newsgroups, mail lists, etc., everyone technically
"owns" the texts they write, regardless of the context in which they were
published. You may chose to (or not to) register your copyright with the
appropriate governmental agency, or you can assign it to EPC or whoever you
wish if you so choose, but the copyright for your words is yours unless you
take some kind of action.
Online text (or visuals or sound, or whatever) is not (yet) in the public
domain, despite the fact that it is often treated as if it is.
Which is not to deny the truth & utility of citing the situation and
location of the original "renga."
That said, add my name to the list of folks who zap rengas on sight.
Bests
Herb
Jorge wrote:
>Amen to what Cris is saying.
>On the other hand I am thinking that perhaps no permission is needed in
>any case because anything posted is in the public domain? EPC should be
>thanked as courtesy. On the other hand, in the improbable case that some
>money will be made from publishing any rengas in whole or in part,
>perhaps the money should be donated to the institution where the list
>originates, i.e., SUNY at Buffalo, which pays for EPC.
>
>
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, cris cheek wrote:
> Hi Eryque,
> I'm with Jorge's response on this one. And would say publish any version or
> branches you have copies of that you enjoy - as 'work in progress'.
> But I do feel that the Poetics list should be mentioned, as should the fact
> that many other contributions / interventions have affected the branching
> process and the choices made.
>
> love and love
> cris
>
>
>
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:48:55 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel(b)
In-Reply-To: <950925173619_108563479@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "Jordan
Davis." at Sep 25, 95 05:36:19 pm
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
thereupon frocked simultaneities strangle muscles promiscuously
because theorems are delicious basked rather than fortified
nature kids, I / they don't have no function
no pause
button, no inclination to re
wind, just at 12:12
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:54:14 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel(c)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509251501.D539100334-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Sep 25, 95 03:29:04 pm
hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
splits of shares like to be hitched to stories
about stabat pater doloroso with kidney statuettes
along streets in San Luis Obispo
back trails near Olympia,
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 20:00:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel(c)
In-Reply-To: <199509252354.XAA09017@fraser.sfu.ca>
stop hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
stop stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
stop makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
stop splits of shares like to be hitched to storie
stop about stabat pater doloroso with kidney statuettes
and stop at the streets of bakersfield
and stop in the valley of death for you have forsaken me
and stop in needles california and stop
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:04:38 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel(d)
In-Reply-To: <199509242111.OAA20597@bob.indirect.com> from "Sheila E. Murphy"
at Sep 24, 95 02:11:31 pm
>
> >hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> >stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
> >leaf stems cubes whirl about as hobbyist pauses to consider
> >lunch as a pearl of sanitized dung in relation to
> >mythology's transference of lettuce, permission to unleash
> a rinse as whimsy over the leafed personalities de
connivence l'ampleur des images tout
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:37:24 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: renga
In-Reply-To: <9509240122.AA134756@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca> from "Louis Cabri" at
Sep 23, 95 07:22:57 pm
In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
Something has changed in the nature of friendship
But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever
the contagious wind strikes a chord with nothing ventured
maimed, my parents won't let me play with density>
because its quantity is known, and they prefer unknowns
to Belarus stockmen deflowering everything in sight, grim
Homolkaesque behaviourists - but quality refrigerators:
forensically "I seem to be a verb"
or a Serb, an herb
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:51:17 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
In-Reply-To: <9509222332.aa09790@post.mail.demon.net> from "cris cheek" at Sep
22, 95 11:40:54 pm
>
> >Jorge, the Nobel Savage, wrote
>
--The hell he is!--GB
> >> >> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> >> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> >> [savage edit]
> >> >> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
> >> >> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
> >> >> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
> >> >> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
> >> >> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
> >> >> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
> >> >> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
> >> >> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
> >> > with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
> >> fishing around with like with like and let it get too cold, "Hey,
> > tell us apart" "Don't be saussure, tracy". "The name is trace, pal"
> spun on painted heels, then "vanishing, not varnishing!" her smile
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:04:55 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Minna Street
In-Reply-To: <199509221828.LAA22492@lanfill.lanminds.com> from "Kit Robinson"
at Sep 22, 95 10:52:49 am
Kit Robinson = Brisk Notion
(now, there's a NICE one!)
Ia anagram OuLiPoian?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:11:05 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Cecil
In-Reply-To: <v01530500ac880c729e11@[192.0.2.1]> from "Herb Levy" at Sep 22,
95 09:21:32 am
Dora Fitzgerald remembers with fondness dancing with Cecil. Oh, he's
coming to Seattle just when I'm going to Denmark. Phh. Lately I been
reading _Jazziz_ but someone always nabs the free CD before I get it.
Rumours here that carla Bley and Gary Peacock are coming to town No,
is it gary Peacock? Of course not, it's Steve Swallow, I think?
Anyway, if they do a trio, who is the drummer? Have I been sniffing
too much pond-fish food?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:12:50 -0400
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From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <199509250456.EAA16318@fraser.sfu.ca>
> hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
> looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
> to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
> on Cynthia's knees, prompting treasure taken forgiveness sighing
> that what weather blanches likes to crop and crops become our
> sinecures till old age beckons with a tower of '45s
> "old age beckons" "a born-again" "poured in" "camels"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:13:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel(c)
In-Reply-To: <199509252354.XAA09017@fraser.sfu.ca>
> hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> stuffs morton's insistence on intermittency shaking freely
> makes neo-grotesque be taken at stock value while admitting
> splits of shares like to be hitched to stories
> about stabat pater doloroso with kidney statuettes
> along streets in San Luis Obispo
> back trails near Olympia,
> and she is dying piecemeal of a sort of emotional aenemia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:19:05 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
In-Reply-To: <199509220455.VAA09823@well.com> from "Thomas Bell" at Sep 21,
95 09:55:29 pm
>
> >Some fans of Dick Assman wrote
> > The Hell we did! --GB and RS
> >> >> >In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> >> >> >incorporating the end of timewarps and troves treasured
> >> >> >the mercator projection of horniness and thou; for thou is
> >> >> >Wow! What a catch! Yowza! Incorporating the dead heroes
> >> >> >of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> >> >> >empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> >> >> libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
> >> >> doughboys & doughgirls, behaving like superfluous enigmas
> >> puzzling in contagious ways over the simplest rides to
> >> the grotto of our Lady of Corollaries during the Feast of the Enormity
> >with widgets handprinted with obvious mistakes in limited editions
> shrink-wrapped to keep-out dangerfields and glut shelves of
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:10:25 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: New Form Re:renga oldies but goodies
In-Reply-To: <199509252237.PAA14243@well.com>
oldies but goodies magnificent fun! awarming floater chevrons, india
november delta apple, gloria soames!
Soup's on. The line Wavers
the circle sway oh conduit oh my limitless combinatorial
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:21:57 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: be advised: wcw qtd in this renga
In-Reply-To: <199509220337.UAA14866@bob.indirect.com> from "Sheila E. Murphy"
at Sep 21, 95 08:37:05 pm
> "The Hell I am! --WCW
> >
> >> > >> >> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >> > >> >> And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >> > >> >> First inverted whistle of a cardinal in the poplar
> >> > >> >> The book and the oboe on the grass under sun and cloud
> >> > >> >> Go endlessly, an obtuse Prussian blue, it binds
> >> > >> >> The rook to the knight here by King's Bishop Three
> >> > >> >> Something has changed in the nature of friendship
> >> > >> >> But wouldn't you know it, Mrs. Mullett next in line
> >> > >> >> For food stamps, quints racing about the linoleum
> >> > >> >> Everything leans on the verb, falling, sighs
> >> > >> >> Twelve at least, one loves only firm, and firm
> >> > >> >> feels good to her it feels real good, & the corset
> >> > >> blanches from so many passwords being lifted like expected bans
> >> > > on metaphors that the folks at the contagious hospital
> >> > thought we might be weaned of early, late, whatever,
> >> > but I am taking the broken glass as a token of my first epiphany
> sans snow, expansive though, fluent in half tones
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:35:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
>On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Steve Carll wrote:
>
>> This is probably the concomitant danger of the attempt to poetize trivia, to
>> champion "simple everyday speech." Certainly when WCW's effort fails, the
>> trivia stays trivial and the poetry joins it.
And then Jeffrey Timmons responded:
>I'm not sure I can agree that WcW fails. In fact, as my posts have
>suggested, he is important because he succeeded so well at turning poetry
>to the everyday. If the everyday is trivial, well, then I too wish we
>could live in the poems we all dream. The everyday is not trivial and is
>worthy of poetry.
now Steve in turn says,
No, no, I didn't mean to say that Williams' whole project is a failure. I
meant at those individual moments or poems where the actual work doesn't
quite measure up to the project. I wouldn't say all his poems were
successful (by whatever criteria), just as I wouldn't say they all fail (how
wishy-washy of me!) But I would amend your last statement: the everyday is
not *inherently* trivial. Some of us (people) make and experience it that
way all the time, and maybe all of us experience it that way much of the
time. That's what makes the striking things so striking: the contrast.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:35:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
Jeffrey Timmons posits:
> doesn't
>your statement assume that you can purge the "tradition" of WcW's
>presence? That we don't need him? Sure, there were alternatives to him,
>differently phrased positions, certainly, but you are arguing against
>history here. Rimbaud and Keats and WcW made different versions of
>poetics available. Just as you must deal with Whitman, you must deal
>with WcW's influence (though admitedly on a whole different scale). It's
>not a question of substituting different versions of poetics for another
>(though this raises an interesting question of just that possibility),
>but, rather, of attending to the polyphony of different voices in
>dialogue with each other.
Good point. The influence isn't going to go away, for awhile anyway. It's
just a question of how loudly his voice sounds in our ears compared to all
the other voices. Ed, maybe you're just sick of the New Jersey accent?
Steve
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:44:56 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: bromige www exhibit
folks here might be interested in a Web exhibit of some of Bromige's
poems, accompanied by paintings, at:
http://www.sonoma.edu/Library/Exhibits/Bromige
apologies if this was mentioned while i was offline, onvacation...
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:26:24 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga moan
In-Reply-To: <00996EB4.BF90A962.107@admin.njit.edu>
Why don't you start on a real Poetics topic that would be so engrossing
that even the rengans would stop what they are doing and come listen in
awed silence?
Things that probably count less as poetics than poetry making:
list of bedside readings
announcements about readings
bibliographical info
commercial info (book x available from press y)
anecdotes about bookstores
editorials about bookstores
comments about the political scene
jokes (in prose)
anagrams
opinions about whether wcwilliams is boring or not
jg
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT wrote:
> Somebody give the Rengaists a chat line of their own and/or an electronic
> magazine. Is "Poetics" the same thing as "Poetry"? I don't mean to be
> restrictive, but, as the joke goes about the husband (no sexism intended) who
> petitions the judge for a divorce from his wife of fifty years, and the
> judge asks, why, after all this time could you possibly want a divorce, the
> husband replies, "Enough is enough already!"
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:30:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: All rengae sound the same
In-Reply-To: <00996EB3.305CC4F2.1@admin.njit.edu>
this message, and the one it replies to, do they count as poetics or not?
Burt, if you can delete, what is the problem? Hey , come and play with
us. it's all right.
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT wrote:
> Hey Ron!
>
> You mean to say that you have actually READ the last five hundred rengae?
> When I see a renga, I reach for that good ol' delete key.
>
> Burt
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: crow moan
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509252244.B539111651-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
in the mountains, last
i'm in the mountains. it's dark. i can't see anything.
i decide to go north. there's reason to go somewhere, and there is no
reason to go anywhere in particular.
north, i say.
you can't go that way, it says.
it might say there is a mine there or a cave there but i can't feel it.
it's large whatever it is. i can't see the ceiling.
look ceiling.
you see nothing special.
there may be a rustling there but i can't hear it. i decide i'm outside.
west, i say.
you come to the mountains.
west, i say.
you come to the mountains.
west, i say.
you come to the mountains and there is a dead bird, shunted from another
space, and it is black and glistening. the center of its body shimmers.
look center.
you come to the mountains.
enter center.
you come through the mountains. you may be in the mountains. you hear
the sound of children dreaming. the children are dreaming disturbing
dreams.
enter dreams.
you enter the dreams of the children. there is the sound of wings.
listen.
you hear nothing.
listen.
you hear nothing.
listen west.
you hear the sound of wings.
_________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:36:52 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: this break will or will not not branch
In-Reply-To: <199509250312.UAA26227@bob.indirect.com>
Sheila, the empress of rice dream, wrote
> >>
> >>> >> >>>>In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books.
> >>> >> >>>>And flew through windows, lightning green and fine morning
> >>> >> [savage edit]
> >>> >> >>>>demitassed to mean full-bodied wine with alcohol removed
> >>> >> >>>>by trained leeches from under the rotting elastic, a feast
> >>> >> >>>>of swirling eddies with beaucoup of labia & confetti
> >>> >> >>>>starving time's scythe for water, matching colors to go
> >>> >> >>>crecheward into sweet line drawings clothed to world our
> >>> >> >>words for water, falling four blocks away, finally, a gulf
> >>> >> >between perceived and rinsing water, shroud and comforter,
> >>> >> flogging proud wet stones with patchwork flags making tenement hum
> >>> > with "Too late the coloscope" and "Cried the besotted gondry"
> >>> fishing around with like with like and let it get too cold, "Hey,
> >> tell us apart" "Don't be saussure, tracy". "The name is trace, pal"
> >spun on painted heels, then "vanishing, not varnishing!" her smile
> impossibly relaxed when thinking about pain beside the capability of boredom
> by the volcano that was sacred on the basis of size not merit
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:43:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
In-Reply-To: <950925173541_108562896@emout05.mail.aol.com>
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Jordan Davis. wrote:
> >hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
> >weave a pro toy aversion by the martyrs of cogency
> who blather anyway with wrinkled tongues
> "I dig a pygmy, by Charles Autry and the Deaf-Aids,"
> this is premature but the character of our contents is dents
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:46:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Form Re:renga oldies but goodies
In-Reply-To: <199509252237.PAA14243@well.com>
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Thomas Bell wrote:
> On Sep 24 Maria Damon wrote:
>
> >oldies but goodies magnificent fun! awarming floater chevrons, india
> >november delta apple, gloria soames!
> Soup's on. The line Wavers
> bid adieux as we drift up the styxx and stones never give an even
trek to vous finirez la maison de M. Usher, Madame Biere
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:49:34 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Another Renga Request
In-Reply-To: <v01530500ac8cd0560fb8@[192.0.2.1]>
Herb, many thanks for the info
about zapping rengas: you are missing poetic history in the making.
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Herb Levy wrote:
> Jorge -
>
> While few people (if any) go to the trouble to register copyright for
> anything they post to newsgroups, mail lists, etc., everyone technically
> "owns" the texts they write, regardless of the context in which they were
> published. You may chose to (or not to) register your copyright with the
> appropriate governmental agency, or you can assign it to EPC or whoever you
> wish if you so choose, but the copyright for your words is yours unless you
> take some kind of action.
>
> Online text (or visuals or sound, or whatever) is not (yet) in the public
> domain, despite the fact that it is often treated as if it is.
>
> Which is not to deny the truth & utility of citing the situation and
> location of the original "renga."
>
> That said, add my name to the list of folks who zap rengas on sight.
>
> Bests
>
> Herb
>
>
> Jorge wrote:
>
> >Amen to what Cris is saying.
> >On the other hand I am thinking that perhaps no permission is needed in
> >any case because anything posted is in the public domain? EPC should be
> >thanked as courtesy. On the other hand, in the improbable case that some
> >money will be made from publishing any rengas in whole or in part,
> >perhaps the money should be donated to the institution where the list
> >originates, i.e., SUNY at Buffalo, which pays for EPC.
> >
> >
>
> On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, cris cheek wrote:
>
> > Hi Eryque,
> > I'm with Jorge's response on this one. And would say publish any version or
> > branches you have copies of that you enjoy - as 'work in progress'.
> > But I do feel that the Poetics list should be mentioned, as should the fact
> > that many other contributions / interventions have affected the branching
> > process and the choices made.
> >
> > love and love
> > cris
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Herb Levy
> herb@eskimo.com
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:34:23 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Renga moan
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509252244.B539111651-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
Tell it like it is Jorge
but don't forget the old
"is there really a David
Ayre" kumquat preservers
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:11:29 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: zap rengas
zap rengas
this could be a dance, a political movement, or the name of a new poetry
magazine.
mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:18:07 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: "is my bubble showing?"
The collaborative poem dulls and repeats when it lacks context.
I'd say context is provided, and collective attentiveness created
by the prose discussion. When the prose flags, the poetry becomes
a-contextual somehow, performing eventual reifying services of the medium
itself. In this medium the critical specifity that social
contexts provide is made homogeneous and is virtually erased -
markers a/effecting context, for instance just the fact of a post
from New Zealand, or a post of Sept. 15th at 3:00 a.m. on a
rented computer, etc., all but their names are erased from the
emailed _message_ (in Jackobson's sense) itself, unlike,
obviously, a letter (e.g. a type of paper, ink, envelope, etc.,
in short, of a specific letter, from NZ). An established poet whose
name is a currency in many media/genres and an unknown name
floating solely in the listserv perform as peers, in a way, to
a context-in-the-making (if there will be any at all). The most
hardy and only context of the medium readily seems to be purely
the informational one of distributing news economically. Good
morning Virilio. Beyond that, what sort of informational poetics
can arise? There needn't be anything more, of course. But if
there is a desire for there to be something more, as perhaps the
collaborative poem is hopefully a signal of (shurely not the
opposite, that is, narcissistic emblems of a socioeconomically
stable/wealthy livelihood??)... - then it would seem,
tautologically, that social context will arise only through the
information contributed, and that this would take form in the
prose discussion (= the world). One available contextual tension
the medium can create for "itself" and its agents beyond the role
of information-distribution seems to be the dynamic between the
poetry and the prose. When the prose dimishes, so too the
poetry's affectivenes. I'm suggesting that the collaborative poem
diminishes in appeal when a) the fetishistic aspect of the medium
itself is allowed to dominate, going surreally out of control in
the form of sheer quantity of postings by single and few contributors to
the poem, and when b) there is a dwindling of prose dialogue -
the only means of supplying contexts of address for the
collaborative poem due to the character of the medium itself. So
I think that the dismissal of the poetry is misplaced, or at best
only half the story. Good night.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 23:31:40 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: bravo eric pape
neat that you took the bait, or bit the bullet, or the hair of the dog or
whatever. thanks!
any more takers (in the FOH look-alike contest that is....)?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 23:31:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:02:02 -0700
>From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: The News
>
>Thousnads of people died today for want of what could be found in poetry
>in what authorities are describing as the most tragic aesthetic disaster
>of the century. Exact figures are not yet available, but New Jersey
>disaster relief officials describe their region as particularly hard
>hit. One survivor interviewed at the Joyce Kilmer rest stop reported
>that she narrowly averted the fate that suddenly befell all those around
>her because she happened to glance at a scrap of verse someone had
>written on a wall just as nearly all the other passengers in her van
>collapsed from ennui.
besides, I wanted you here on the ward
where I am the doctor
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 23:31:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: yep
>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 19:11:09 -0700
>From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Naming in America
>
>Tenney, to Billy Luoma's post,
>>>Pentium" Pro Processor Builds on Equity in Pentium Brand
>>
>you commented
>>is this news or poetry (I know people are miserably dying for lack of
>the news there--boring, right?--but really....?)
>>
>I took this as a post on naming in society, circa 1995, and found it
>absolutely compelling. The Pentium Pro, which will be a household name
>in about 3 years, is what we once would have called a "686" had the
>copyright laws not failed to protect Intel's claim to ownership of the
>"xx86" convention for computer chips....
(& etc)
Ron:
thanks for the subtle (within the veil) excursus. So it WAS poetry! I
guess what I had in mind was a long poem Charles B read here in Tucson maybe
4-5 years ago now, which started with a long computer-blurb passage--which
was compelling just because attention divided (mine did that is) between
let's say materialized language or discourse AND, otoh, a kind of
techie-groupie interest in whatever software was being described. So that:
what Bill posted is nice, and IS poetry (rather than "rhetoric" [as] if that
distinction still holds) because it's a little hard to tell whether one
isn't spozed to (just?) share the enthusiasm over the new sleek model.
Maybe "pro" just means the floating decimal works?
I sit and look out
hunkering on 386sx20 haunch
dreaming of software not hardware....
it's renga, but jeez, what the hell does it mean?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 08:57:51 BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "I.LIGHTMAN" <I.Lightman@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Donald Davie 1922-1995
I'm taking time out from unexpectedly heavy grieving to note the loss
of a great British poet, Donald Davie. He and I corresponded and met
and, like at least some of the obituary writers on him in recent days,
fell out; I wish now, like some of them I suspect, that I had sorted
this out, but there always seemed more time to come. I only found out
that he'd died when I moved into a new flat and his face was peering
out of the obituary page of a newspaper in the bin in the empty room.
He was always used as a whipping boy, an establishment figure
to rebel against, and rarely thanked for his critical work recommending
not just British poets but British poetry - as a poetry that should
be international and should make serious work with language, and let
language work on the poet. He was attacked jealously by many who wanted
his position of eminence (he could always get an article in the TLS
much better than any others there) but who would never do the labour,
of writing well at length and dealing with institutions, that Davie did
to *achieve* this eminence. It was always assumed that this eminence
was somehow given to him, as privilege, and always assumed that he
reacted out of fear and stupidity to certain areas of the avant-garde
that he didn't favour as much as he favoured Pound. For me, however,
his *criticisms* based on *reading* (rather than *assent*) of the
British avant-garde stick. See Barry and Hampson eds. _The Scope of
The Possible_, Manchester University Press, 1994, for a fine example
of such Davie-bashing.
If his criticism was begrudged, his poetry was ignored; yet,
its emphasis on language, its sometimes entirely abstract pleasure with
difficult syntax and vocabulary, and its constant self-questioning
and interest in ideas and epistemology, certainly helped me, as a
schoolboy knowing only Philip Larkin, to bridge to Pound and, indeed,
the Language Writers - to whom he is much closer in energy and labour
and *vanguardism* (ie the desire to bring the future in, from the margin,
not stay in the margin) than any other post-war British poet. If I were
to compare him to a painter, I would say no other had such a fine grasp
of one aspect of her or his (colour/pigment/mixing/framing/brushwork)
art - for none has the skill below with vocabulary, with verbs, with
a form that is both syntactically spacious and *not* spare and
stripped-down in vocabulary; he is somewhere between Creeley/Neidecker
and Yeats, and that amazes me as a feat:
OX-BOW
The time is at an end.
The river swirled
Into an ox-box bend, but now
It shudders and re-unites:
Adversary! Friend!
Adverse currents drove
This pair apart.
A twin tormented throe embraced,
Enisled between them, one
Quadrant of earth, one grove.
Now for each other they yearn
Across the eyot
That the particular flow of each
Carved out, determined. Now,
Now to each other they turn.
And it is past belief
That once they forked;
Or that, upstream and bypassed, trees
Mirrored in mid-reach still
Break into annual leaf.
DONALD DAVIE
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 02:33:20 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Is _Poetics Journal_ Dead?
Jim,
I forwarded your question on to Lyn and Barrett, neither of whom are on
the Poetics List. There is some question of whether Barry ever READS
his email, but at least there is an address. The third editor (who has
never seen his work as such make it to print), Kit Robinson, may want
to reply in more detail.
My understanding is this. There was a long delay created by ye olde
funding problems plus the mind-numbing detail of getting the PhD and
doing the dissertation (no word yet on whether it has been completed).
On top of which, Barry has been deeply ambivalent about poetry (and
especially langpo) for some time. Kit was brought on to resolve some of
the workload and inertia issues, but when Barry toddled off to Detroit,
he took the manuscripts with him. Don't know where it currently stands.
I once noted that he had achieved a status with my manuscripts normally
reserved for the likes of Kirby Malone and Doug Messerli...greatest
time held without publication. He was not amused.
Frankly, it's reasonable in such a situation to insist on publication
or to take the work back.
The sad thing is that it was a great mag, particularly in the first
five issues or so.
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 02:37:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Minna Street
You wrote:
>
>Kit Robinson = Brisk Notion
>
>(now, there's a NICE one!)
>
>Ia anagram OuLiPoian?
>
Well that typo in the first word certainly is.
OuLiPoian? Sounds like that purple taro root paste they use in Hawaii.
I always thought it was OuLiPuddlian.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:46:05 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Rights and Rengas
In-Reply-To: <199509260618.HAA17338@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
Yes, everyone owns what they write, and can therefore give or refuse
permission to reproduce it. However, in some circumstances work can be
reproduced without copyright holder's permission, providing that "all
reasonable measures" to identify copyright holders and obtain permission
have been taken. In the case of "works of multiple authorship" where it's
difficult to identify individual rights, a rubric of this kind is often
used. Obviously, this doesn't apply where the copyright holder has
actually denied permission to reproduce. I'd say (privately, but not in
court) that contacting the list where the renga was written is taking "all
reasonable measures" providing that no mean-minded little so-and-so
actually objects personally...
Or to put it another way: if you've rung the renga writer for their rights
and got a ringer, you can quote the written renga with the writer's rights
unritten - you can rate their rights unbidden and so on -
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 07:06:05 -40962758
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Rosenberg <jr@AMANUE.PGH.NET>
Subject: Publications
[Hmm, I posted this yesterday but got a strange failure message back from
parts along the way; I guess it didn't make it to the list. I wonder if
cyberspace is trying to tell me something ...]
Since C.B. sayeth one is "breaking the rules" without making official
Publication Disclosure:
My latest publication -- not exactly recent ('93) -- is _Intergrams_, $19.95,
Eastgate Systems, (800) 562-1638, (617) 924-9044, fax (617) 924-9051,
134 Main St Watertown MA 02172 USA, http://www.eastgate.com/. It requires
a Macintosh with HyperCard (even an old Mac Plus with 1M RAM will do.)
The work prior to that, _Diagrams Series 4_, is available on-line at:
http://www.well.com/user/jer/diags4/diags4.html
The work that came after _Intergrams_, _Diffractions through: Thirst weep
ransack (frailty) veer tide elegy_ has been done for a couple of years, is
due out from Eastgate sometime (I have no idea when, they work a bit slowly).
Since all the work described above is electronic, this is a good time to
bring up the issue of distribution of electronic writing. Last time I looked
into this, SPD didn't carry a single electronic title and didn't seem
interested in starting. Perhaps things have changed, but I don't think so.
Those of you who live in the Bay Area would be doing us electronic writers a
favor if you took the time to badger the powers that be at SPD about this
whenever you drop in.
--
Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/
CIS: 71515,124
WELL: jer
Internet: jr@amanue.pgh.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:30:36 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: David Miller
In-Reply-To: <199509250407.FAA26134@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
Thanks for pointing out David Miller's new Burning Deck publication.
David also has "The Book of the Spoonmaker" new from Cloud, 48
Biddlestone Road, Heaton, Newcastle on Tyne NE6 5SL (three pounds fifty
including post; Sterling IMOs payable to Cloud).
There's also a few of his other books and a book of essays on him
available from Stride, 11 Sylvan Road, Exeter EX4 6EW.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x x
x Richard Caddel, E-mail: R.I.Caddel @ durham.ac.uk x
x Durham University Library, Phone: 0191 374 3044 x
x Stockton Rd. Durham DH1 3LY Fax: 0191 374 7481 x
x x
x "Words! Pens are too light. Take a chisel to write." x
x - Basil Bunting x
x x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 06:34:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rights and Rengas
>Yes, everyone owns what they write, and can therefore give or refuse
>permission to reproduce it.
Although in this renga in question, or at least in several versions of it,
at least one of the lines I wrote (and I suspect this is true for others as
well) has been altered by someone else without my permission. This has been
done in ways I don't like at all (and to this I object), and more radically
altered (the whole form of the renga) in ways I like quite a lot. So, whose
writing is it? Did someone violate my rights by altering it in the first place?
> I'd say (privately, but not in
>court) that contacting the list where the renga was written is taking "all
>reasonable measures" providing that no mean-minded little so-and-so
>actually objects personally...
Maybe my objection makes me a mean-minded little so-and-so, except that I do
give permissions to use whatever version anyone wants to use for any purpose
whatsoever. But I think that this time I really mean it when I tell myself
I'm not contributing to the rengas any more.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 09:32:24 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: books and dreams
It sounds like people are 12-stepping off the renga.
I hope you all are as weak about quitting as I suspect I am.
Louis, I'd like to see a demonstration, with charts,
of the correlation between quantity of prose
and zip in renga. Charles, as a renga debaser,
I apologize. Rights squabblers--go directly to the archive
and search for the following terms: collaborate, renga,
poem, "books were dreams". Then remember that everything
(according to the new welcome message) here is confidential
and that you shouldn't show anything written here to
anyone else.
Jordan Davis
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 09:59:39 EST
Reply-To: dgolumbia@iddis.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Golumbia <GOLUMBIA@IDDIS.IDDIS.COM>
Subject: Re: News Too
>Aldon L. Nielsen wrote:
>
> Speaking of hot shots -- Dinesh D'Souza has just published a book, _The
> End of Racism_, in which he asserts that slavery was not a racist
> institution. Young Mr. D'Souza got a grant five times the size of yours
> to "research" this book, and has been featured in two successive issues
> of the Chronicle of Higher Ed. [etc.]
I try to glance through each of these shameful books as they come
out. They make me want to wretch. But D'Souza's should be marked out
for special attention. It is truly execrable. It even inspired the
normally complacent Richard Rorty to something like moral outrage
in the latest NYTBR.
One expects the resurgence of "scientific" racism in things like THE
BELL CURVE at a time like this in our country, and knows the
tremendous amount of argument & evidence that can be brought to bear
against it as well -- small if cold comfort. But D'Souza's book goes
so far beyond that -- making the most outrageous and unbelievable
assertions (slavery not being racist among them). It is just gross.
Here's a thought: at least one group besides "minorities" gets
"preferential treatment" in the US: young, callow, mean-spirited, dumb
conservatives, especially if they have some minority background or
other. I could name names.
I will fabricate a relation between this topic and Poetics (or at
least renga) if pressed.
--
dgolumbia@iddis.com
David Golumbia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:04:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Willa Jarnagin <jarnagin@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga moan
In-Reply-To: <00996EB4.BF90A962.107@admin.njit.edu>
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT wrote:
> Somebody give the Rengaists a chat line of their own and/or an electronic
> magazine. Is "Poetics" the same thing as "Poetry"? I don't mean to be
> restrictive, but, as the joke goes about the husband (no sexism intended) who
> petitions the judge for a divorce from his wife of fifty years, and the
> judge asks, why, after all this time could you possibly want a divorce, the
> husband replies, "Enough is enough already!"
>
I've been lurking for a while but have to put in my vote: PLEASE, PLEASE,
PLEASE, renga writers, get your own chat list! Yes, enough is enough. I
don't have sophisticated email and can't filter messages, and I'm tired
of my account getting clogged up and slowed down to the speed of sloths
fucking.
Please excuse my rancor, but it does seem that people on this list are
either totally FOR, or totally TIRED OF renga. If the list is already
divided as such, why not spawn a new one? I think everyone would be
happier.
Willa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:09:02 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: What's "poetics?"
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
What counts as "poetics," Jorge asks? A reasonable enough question, to which I
wish I had an answer. However: in Jorge's list of 10 "things that probably
count less as poetics than poetry-making," one could find at least half in the
poetry-making of (for instance) Pound, Olson, H.D., David Antin, Susan Howe .
. . places where one would be hard put to find a single techno-renga.
Just sign me
Another Renga Crank
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:24:27 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga moan
jorge,
your list is a good one.and the postings of the sort that fall within the
purview of the entries on the list I have found to be not only informative
and delightful, but necessary. Why, I can even say the same thing about
an occasional renga or two. But really, you must be kidding me. do you
expect me to believe that you don't see the differences I have pointed out?
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:27:44 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: All rengae sound the same
Whew, Jorge!
I was really worried that I wasn't going to get permission to write rengas!
But really, even with a delete command . . . I guess it's like swatting flies;
one can even derive some sort of perverse pleasure in eliminating the little
buggers, but after a while its just plain old hard work, a bore, and grueling.
to say nothing of what the renga phenomenon has done to my poor buffer
from time to time.
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:28:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: A non-"poetics" anagram
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95092610043210@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Without meaning to give any offense:
Alan Golding = "anal godling"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 08:02:04 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Donald Davie 1922-1995
I want to thank Ira for posting this eulogy on Donald Davie.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:06:35 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: WCW
what you say, ron, appears reasonable but, i think, beside the point. one can
read wordsworth, i suppose, for his "contemporary values" (whatever that
means) but a poem in blank verse about sublimity and imagination and one's
summer in the alps, written today, runs a risk of being either precious
or parody. my heavens, what are you doing defending lyricism, but since
that seems the point, welcome! you also seem to be saying (oddly, i should
think, for you) to be saying that the poem is free of history. welcome!
but now that you're over here, to my pleasure, i suggest h.d. or duncan
(particularly within his emerson/h.d. concerns) rather than williams as
the interesting place to be. -- why is resistance to williams' first
move--not to recycle the past--so difficult to apply to his own past.
as for bahktin: he was useful. -ed
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:59:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Baker <E7E4BAK@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
Subject: New Book
As my first posting, I am listing publishing information for a book
recently published by the University Press of Florida.
AUTHOR: Peter Baker
TITLE: _Deconstruction and the Ethical Turn_
PRESS: University Press of Florida
DATEP: 1995
PRICE: $34.95
From the ad copy:
_Deconstruction and the Ethical Turn_ demonstrates the continuing
importance of deconstruction and other related movements for current
literary theory, insisting on the seriousness of the deconstructive
enterprise, its philosophical background, and its possible usefulness
for negotiating the political terrain of the postmodern university
Peter Baker deals with the theories of such major figures as
Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault, Jacques Lacan, Emmanuel Levinas
and Julia Kristeva. He concentrates on the ways that deconstruction
allows for an increased understanding of the ethical reading of texts
and disputes the view that it places all decision making in the realm
of the text. Deconstruction and related types of critical thinking
have real-world effects, he argues, and they offer ways of understanding
and resisting intersubjective violence. [...]
Peter Baker is associate professor of English at Towson State Univer-
sity, Towson, Maryland, and the author of _Obdurate Brilliance:
Exteriority and the Modern Long Poem_ (UPF, 1991) and _Modern Poetic
Practice: Structure and Genesis_ (1985) and coeditor of _The Scope
of Words: In Honor of Albert S. Cook_ (1991). He is the editor of
a book series, Studies in Modern Poetry.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:39:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: privatizing the renga
Comments: To: poetics <poetics@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
I agree with Charles Bernstein that practice overtakes theory but I don't
want the kid next door to bang scales on the piano all day long while
I am trying to do anything with my head. Therefore I have decided to buy
that kid an electric keyboad and earphones. As to me, I am leaving the public sector, the U.S. Department
of Renga, and returning to private practice. I think I have served
honorably though obnoxiously at times for which I apologize. I am going
to be a renga consultant, though, and if someone posts a renga, I
will probably add a line and send it back to the poster only not to the list.
I have already invited a number of people to send lines to me to start on
a number of private rengas. Once in a while we can send a ***closured***
renga to the list. If anybody wants to unclosure it, do it in the privacy
of your home and send it to us.
So on to the next topic. In all seriousness, I think that combatting
scientific racism is crucial.
In a lighter artery, anagram practice will never overtake theory so they
are ok in my estimation.
And so goodbye, an old rengan never cries, s/he just howls away.
jg
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:06:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: News Too
aldon thanks as always for the disquieting news front. george lipsitz's "The
Possessive Investment in Whiteness" will come out in the next American
Quarterly, and is good reading for anyone who thinks racism is dead.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:08:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: the renga itselves
if it's boring who made it so or who didn't make it something to behold
that is, it's not the weather or the floors it's maybe more like soccer in
the office which I too
wish something for it
Jordan Davis
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:28:14 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Fred Muratori <fmm1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: An Invitation
I just wanted to invite members of this list to take a look at the Web
version of my mss. _The Spectra_, a collection of 40+ high-velocity lyrics
(sorry, RS -- not sure what else to call 'em). Most have seen mag print (in
_New Directions_, _Talisman_, _Mudfish_, _BAP '94_, _Denver Qtly_ & others)
but are yearning mightily toward the bookable, Web or no Web. Some audio
included.
The URL is: http://fmref.library.cornell.edu/spectra.html
My apologies for the self-advertisement. I do not undertake this lightly,
but since I went through the hassle of putting the damned thing up in html,
it'd be nice if at least a few folks knew about it.
***********************
Fred Muratori "Certain themes are incurable."
(fmm1@cornell.edu) - Lyn Hejinian
Reference Services Division
Olin * Kroch * Uris Libraries
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
***********************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 15:31:02 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Willa Jarnagin <jarnagin@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Bill Corbett Reading
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509261202.J539147589-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
William Corbett will read work by his favorite poets, including Lorine
Niedecker, Basil Bunting, Frank O'Hara, Elizabeth Bishop, Philip Whalen,
and others...
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2 p.m.
THE BOOKCELLAR CAFE
1971 Mass. Ave. (Porter Square)
Cambridge, Mass.
This reading will kick off the new Boston area reading series, Cellar Door
Poetry. Cellar Door hopes to pick up where Word of Mouth, the loyally
attended Cambridge series run by Michael Franco, left off. Readings will
be held once a month (usually the last Sunday) at 2:00, at the Bookcellar Cafe.
For more information or to be on our mailing list, contact:
Willa Jarnagin or Eric Malone
51 Laurel St. #3
Somerville MA 02143
phone: (617) 623-5153
(or email me)
--Willa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 15:49:59 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: News Too (fwd)
With regard to Dinesh D'Souza: anybody else see the William Raspberry
column about the two writers whose names escape me, both black
conservatives, who were so incensed by DD'S's book that they publicly
dissasociated themselves from the American Enterprise Institute (the
"think" tank that ponied up the dough)? It'll be interesting to see if
this "study" pits the right against itself: part of me would like to see
that, but part of me worries that such an event would lend support to the
myth that there is actual political discussion in the U.S.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg No ideas but in things.
University Writing Program --W.C. Williams
Duke University
Durham, NC 27708 No ideas in things, either.
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu --John Ashbery
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 16:23:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cecil
Just thought I'd mention Mr. Taylor's gonna be @ the SF Jazz Fest October 26,
both solo & w/ an orchestra which I've heard rumored will be quite large.
Takes place @ the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts. I saw Muhal Richard Abrams
there among others last March during the Other Minds Festival & it's a great
place to hear music.
Not too Rova's celebration of the "30th anniversary of John Coltrane's
_Ascension_" @ Great American Music Hall Dec 6th.
They'll be joined by Glen Spearman, John Tchicai & Raphe Malik among others.
Eat yr heart out Herb! or buy a plane ticket...
all best,
Charles
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 16:33:42 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Renga moan
thot i shd cast my 2cents, as one who has not found much use for
th renga & who regularly deletes, for thier continuation--lest
the next excess that irritates is a pearl before me...
...their...<insert as needed>
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:09:16 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: MILLENNIUM ANTHOLOGY
We -- Pierre Joris & Jerome Rothenberg -- would like to announce that
our anthology _POEMS FOR THE MILLENNIUM: The University of California
Book of Modern & Postmodern Poetry_ (Vol 1: From Fin-de-Siecle to
Negritude) has just come out.
It will probably be a few weeks until copies hit the
bookstores, but meanwhile, for those interested & unable to wait that
long, we will post (as a separate, longish e-mail) the Table of
Contents to this list.
Here is how UCP describes the book:
The University of California Press is Proud to Announce:
The First Global Anthology of 20th Century Poetry
Poems for the Millennium
The University of California Book of Modern and Postmodern Poetry
Volume One: From Fin-de-Siecle to Negritude
Edited by Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris
0-520-07227-8 $24.95 paper
800 pages, 6 x 9", 20 b/willustrations
POEMS FOR THE MILLENNIUM may well be the poetry
book-of-the-century: a synthesizing and global anthology with an
emphasis on those international and national movements that have tried
to change our ways of making poetry and art as a means for changing
how we think & act as human beings.
This first volume offers three "galleries" of individual poets
-- figures like Mallarme, Stein, Rilke, Tzara, Mayakovsky, Pound,
H.D.,Vallejo, Artaud, Cesaire, and Tsvetayeva--along with a sampling
of the most significant pre-World War II movements in poetry and the
other arts: -- Futurism, Expressionism, Dada, Surrealism,
"Objectivism," Negritude. The second volume will extend the gathering
to the present day, forming a synthesizing and global anthology that
goes beyond any existing twentieth-century collection in its cultural
scope and experimental range.
Jerome Rothenberg is a poet and one of the world's leading
anthologists. His more than fifty books include _Technicians of the
Sacred: A Range of Poetries from Africa, America, Asia, Europe and
Oceania_ (California, 1985). He is Professor of Visual Arts and
Literature at the University of California, San Diego.
Pierre Joris has published over twenty books of poetry as well as many
anthologies and translations. He is Associate Professor of English at
the State University of New York, Albany.
"The word anthology hardly does justice to Rothenberg and Joris's
brilliant reconceptualization of twentieth-century poetry in a global
context. This is that rare book that forces us to rethink what the
poetic is and can be." -- Marjorie Perloff
"This book is destined to become a fundamental resource for the study
of twentieth-century literature and culture. Its importance cannot be
overstated." -- Charles Bernstein
"A riveting literary achievement of phenomenal scope and generosity.
This illuminating compendium displays the best of humanity's bardic
inheritance and vision.... It should be obligatory reading for all
scholars, students, writers, and lovers of poetry." -- Anne Waldman
"In an accurately titled Poems for the Millennium we can at last sense
the scope of the Revolution of the Word that's been in process
sinceQoh, 1895. There's no other anthology like this one, no other
overview so adventuresome." -- Hugh Kenner
"Rothenberg and Joris's anthology gives us, by virtue of its organic
structure and inspired choices, the possibility of a kind of situated
internationalism.... It is a sourcebook for the future." -- Gary Snyder
"This is not like any other anthology, not a collection of
excellences, no absurd imitation of a canon. It's more like a Handbook
of Inventors and Inventions, or of Explorers and Discoveries, that
opens up all sorts of pathways for poetry from its past and future to
a living present... It is above all a book of possibilities and
invitations." -- David Antin
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:25:00 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: A non-"poetics" anagram
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950926102723.5527F-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> from "Gwyn
McVay" at Sep 26, 95 10:28:00 am
Well, I guess "anal godling" is a little better than "anal lodging"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:30:19 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Rights and Rengas
In-Reply-To: <199509261134.GAA16033@freedom.mtn.org> from "Charles Alexander"
at Sep 26, 95 06:34:49 am
I am willing to hand over rights to publishing my parts of the renga,
as long as they are changed by someone else. I presume that all
conbtributors will see whatever becomes of them...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:33:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Minna Street
In-Reply-To: <199509260937.CAA07214@ix3.ix.netcom.com> from "Ron Silliman" at
Sep 26, 95 02:37:23 am
Hey, Ron, you just reminded me of that great doowap song,
"Ou Lip the Po in the Po sh Po shPo?"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:44:32 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Donald Davie 1922-1995
In-Reply-To: <00996F76.9FB9AC20.4596@cpcmg.uea.ac.uk> from "I.LIGHTMAN" at Sep
26, 95 08:57:51 am
I think that Lightman's encomium for Davie is apt and shd surely be
welcomed. Davie , despite his crankiness in some areas, at least
announced to the stiff-necked English p[oetry crowd that there was
something happening elsewhere. His poetry sounds a little 19thC
English to North American ears, but it sounds a lot more beautiful
than the stuff you usually see printed in the establishment papers
over there. I think that North Americans always wonder how the hell
the Brits ever thought that Larkin was more than a light poet. But
Davie rests somewhere between the tight collar and proper vest, and
Mr Bunting, say. Maybe closest to someone like Tomlinson, who also
had an ear cocked westward. Only time I had a real serious talk with
Davie, though, was once when I visited Essex with a view to doing a
PhD on Bunting in 1966, and Davie sais not a chance, he was saving
him for himself. Better than the prof at Sussex who told me not a
chance, he had heard that this Bunting fellow was still alive.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:56:20 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: crow moan weather
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950925223445.18227A-100000@panix3.panix.com> from
"Alan Sondheim" at Sep 25, 95 10:35:04 pm
THE WEATHER 2
Strong wind trying to get old
green leaves off the trees, boughs bend
reflected in leaf-strewn fish pond,
a contradiction in is this Fall?
Maple leaves too, curled and brown,
caught in the yucca, an orange cat
hiding behind it, or is that some
imposed imagination? Look at the figs
getting darker between fig leaves getting lighter;
there's a ghost has time for flowers
in October, especially little red ones,
because we are somewhere else, a
clothing store, a racing Pontiac, a lay-away
plan called winter numbers on the wall
inside.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:41:21 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: MOO
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.950926145133.555870204C-100000@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
It remains odd to me that the only evidence of the Net upon writing here
is the quick response of renga-substance oozing from the list. There are
all sorts of possibilities. Below is architecture within Media Moo that I
have been working on. This is a partial exploration of the space. (In
addition Kim Mcglynn and I have been working on texts through Unix talk,
Angela Hunter and I used email lists, Kayo Matsushita and I used circle-
muds and lpmuds. All the results go onto Cybermind and Fiction-of-Philos-
ophy email lists.)
----------------------------------
look
Tiffany
dense entanglement of fluid, you-know-language, aural, i course thru u,
i u, Tiffany course thru alan, Tiffanyalan, breath floods, clitoral,
eyes stained by u, u lay me out, lance, skin, nipples, on Menstrual
Table, you-know-language
Obvious exits: out to Living Quarters - 2nd Floor
You see aural here.
l aural
aural-phone, uterine tendrils, extrusions, circulations of internal
fluids
l Menstrual Table
a dark space of annotations, unreadable, the dinner readied by the
male, trapped, a web-inversion, violation, fabric: He sees: a lance
impaled on an endless plain of skin
l lance
holed skin, rimmed with Tiffanyalan
l skin
lance holed with Tiffanyalan or clitoral
l clitoral
clitoris
l clitoris
There appears to be some writing on the note ...
read clitoris
There appears to be some writing on the note ...
a path leads to the tip, plateaus open to frozen space; here,
potential fields flow, static-electrical discharging, effluvia,
curtained sheets rimming Menstrual Table. the lance tip leans
earthward, sodden with menstrual flows, clots, broken writings.
your tongue strains, skin against skin, your mouth peels back,
your teeth in your nipples, your nipples everything in the world.
(You finish reading.)
l nipples
double cones, flattened, holed with clitoral, intensity of Tiffanyalan,
lanced with you-know-language
l you-know-language
Tiffanyalan
l Tiffanyalan
you-know-language, sheen, tongue-rimmed, hole towards u, cum across u,
she arches, u beneath, pornog, its penis, its vagina, u Tiffanyalan
you-know-language
l penis
I see no "penis" here.
l vagina
I see no "vagina" here.
@quit
*** Disconnected ***
Connection closed by foreign host.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:11:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Scroggins <scroggin@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Donald Davie 1922-1995
In-Reply-To: <00996F76.9FB9AC20.4596@cpcmg.uea.ac.uk>
My thanks as well to Ira for the Davie obituary. I remember a pleasant
hour spent with him in his office at Vanderbilt University, watching him
continually relight his pipe and counsel me, a prospective graduate
student, that I would be better off pursuing my honors thesis on Bunting
than on Robert Duncan. When I told him how fascinated I was by the
eclecticism of Duncan's influences, he shook his head slowly: "Eclectic
indeed--rather an eclectic _fudge_, I should say." That was my
introduction to Bunting's work. Later, he would send me a syllabus for a
graduate seminar he had taught on the Objectivists, from which Zukofsky
was unaccountably absent(!); "He would have taken up far too much of the
semester, with too little reward," was Davie's explanation.
I was inclined to dismiss him as an old fart at the time, an
impression further strengthened by his scathing review of Williams's
collected poems a couple of years later, and his casual dropping
(somewhere) of the opinion that Niedecker was on a par with
Dickinson--both "minor female poets." But if Davie was never quite
vanguard enough for my tastes, he always remained a staunch advocate of a
Poundian poetics--not a popular position in England, nor in America,
where Helen Vendler takes every opportunity to berate Davie for his
"unaccountable" appreciation of Pound. [Speaking of which, does anyone
have a citation for the Ashbery interview where he says that Vendler told
him (Ashbery) in conversation, "Of course you don't like The Cantos. You
have to be a fascist to like The Cantos"?] He was always a graceful
writer--not a skill valued by many American academics, nor,
unfortunately, by many of those who write about poetry in America--and he
was never afraid to hold unpopular opinions.
His Pound books remain useful. His _Under Briggflatts_,while
highly spotty, is consistently entertaining. My personal favorite of
his books is _A Gathered Church: the Literature of the English
Dissenting Interest, 1700-1930_, a lovely and eclectic piece of
historical scholarship and criticism.
Mark Scroggins
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:41:04 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: MOO
More info please on techniqalities.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 21:00:53 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: MILLENNIUM TABLE OF CONTENT
In-Reply-To: <199509262109.RAA26289@loki.hum.albany.edu> from "Pierre Joris"
at Sep 26, 95 05:09:16 pm
Poems for the Millennium
The University of California Book of Modern and Postmodern Poetry
Volume One: From Fin-de-Siecle to Negritude
Edited by Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris
T a b l e o f C o n t e n t s
Forerunners
Prologue to Forerunners
William Blake
"Obey thou the Words of the Inspired Man"
Friedrich Holderlin
In the Days of Socrates
Elias Lonnrot
From The Kalevala
Walt Whitman
This Compost
Charles Baudelaire
Fuses I & II
Emily Dickinson
Fascicle 34 Poem 9
Bald Mountain Zaum-Poems
Gerard Manley Hopkins
That Nature is a Heraclitean Fire and of the Comfort
of the Resurrection
Isidore Ducasse, Comte de Lautreamont
From Maldoror
Arthur Rimbaud
From A Season In Hell
After Bitahatini
From The Night Chant
Stephane Mallarme
From Le Livre
A First Gallery
Stephane Mallarme
A Throw of the Dice Never Will Abolish Chance
C.P. Cavafy
Expecting The Barbarians
Days of 1908
And I Lounged and Lay on their Beds
Adolf Wolfli
Nostalgic Song for My Beloved
from From the Cradle to the Graave, or, through
working and sweating, suffering and hardship, even through
prayer into damnation
Match Factory at Chaami 1911
Ruben Dario
Far away and long ago
To Roosevelt
Paul Valery
Crusoe
Alfred Jarry
The Passion of Christ Considered as an Uphill
Bicycle Race
Gertrude Stein
From Tender Buttons
A Valentine to Sherwood Anderson
From "Lifting Belly"
Rainer Maria Rilke
Death
Tombs of the Hetaerae
The First Duino Elegy
Max Jacob
1914
From The Cock and the Pearl
Andrey Bely
From The Dramatic Symphony
Guillaume Apollinaire
Horse Calligram
Zone
A Phantom of Clouds
The Little Car
From Poems for Lou
From Victoire
Pablo Picasso
A Bottle of Suze
Franz Kafka
Before the Law
Mina Loy
Night Suite, for Piano & Poet's Voice
Ode for Walt Whitman
Dino Campana
Genoa
Fernando Pessoa
"The startling reality of things"
From Maritime Ode
From Oblique Rain
Ezra Pound
Papyrus
The Return
Canto One
Hagiwara Sakutaro
Chair
Spring Night
Lover of Love
So Terrifyingly Melancholy
Blaise Cendrars
The Great Fetishes
From The Prose of the Trans-Siberian and of Little
Jeanne of France
Marcel Duchamp
The 1914 Box
Giuseppe Ungaretti
Three Poems
Morning
Soldiers
Babel
The Rivers
Pierre Reverdy
Secret
Flower Market
Inn
Squares
Vicente Huidobro
Ars Poetica
Cow Boy
Express
Futurisms
Prologue to Futurism I
Carlo Carra:
Demonstration for Intervention in the War
F.T. Marinetti
FromThe Manifesto of Futurism
Apres la Marne, Joffre visita le front en auto
From Zang Tumb Tuuum
Successively
From The Variety Theatre Manifesto
Four Sintesi
Francesco Cangiullo : Detonation
F.T. Marinetti: A Landscape Heard
F.T. Marinetti: They are Coming
Fortunato Depero: Colors
Paolo Buzzi
Finger-Nails
Aldo Palazzeschi
The Stranger
Nuns Go Walking
Prologue to Futurism II
Vassily Kamensky
Constantinople: Ferroconcrete Poem
D. Burliuk, A. Kruchenykh, V. Mayakovsky, V. Khlebnikov
From A Slap in the Face of Public Taste
Velimir Khlebnikov
Incantation by Laughter
Four Poems
From Zangezi
Aleksei Kruchenykh
Declaration of the Word as Such
From Pomade
From the Sahara to America
Vladimir Mayakovsky
Listen
From A Cloud in Trousers
Screaming My Head Off
Mayakovsky's Suicide Note
Anatol Stern
Europa
Expressionism
Prologue to Expressionism
Wassily Kandinsky
Sounds
Chalk and Soot
Else Lasker-Schuler
Chronica
Three Portraits
George Trakl
Georg Grosz
To the Barbarian:
August Stramm
Encounter
Urdeath
Battlefield
Paul Klee
The Wolf Speaks
Poem
A Friend
The Happy One
Poem
Gottfried Benn
Little Aster
Lovely Childhood
Cycle
Man and Woman Go Through the Cancer Ward
Night Cafe
A Bunch of Drifter Sons Hollered
Georg Trakl
Sleep
The Evening
De Profundis
Revelation and Decline
Dada
Prologue to Dada
Tristan Tzara
Zurich Chronicle February 1916
Hugo Ball
The Sun
From Flight Out of Time
The Complete Sound-Poems of Hugo Ball
Tristan Tzara
Metal Coughdrops
Chanson Dada
From Dada Manifesto on Feeble Love and Bitter Love
The Great Lament of My Obscurity Three
Richard Huelsenbeck
"We Hardly"
Richard Huelsenbeck, Marcel Janko, Tristan Tzara
L'Amiral cherche une maison a louer
Hans Arp
Kaspar Is Dead
People
The Great Unrestrained Sadist
The Man. The Woman
Francis Picabia
Spermal Chimney
From Eunuch Unique
Portrait de Tristan Tzara
Marcel Duchamp
Speculations
SURcenSURE
Cast Shadows
Else von Freytag-Loringhoven
Affectionate
Holy Skirts
Kurt Schwitters
Desire
Portrait of Herwath Walden
Anna Blossom Has Wheels
Murder Machine 43
From Ur Sonata
Theo van Doesburg
Still Life: The Table
Remembrance of the Founts of Night
G. Ribemont-Dessaignes
Artichokes
Andre Breton
The Mystery Corset
Andre Breton & Philippe Soupault
From The Magnetic Fields
A Second Gallery
Wiliam Butler Yeats
From A Vision and The Second Coming
Gertrude Stein
Identity a Poem
Rainer Maria Rilke
The Eighth Duino Elegy
Wallace Stevens
Dance of the Macabre Mice
Connoisseur of Chaos
James Joyce
From Ulysses
William Carlos Williams
The Locust Tree in Flower
Paterson
D.H. Lawrence
Tortoise Shout
Ezra Pound
Canto 32
Canto 51
H.D. (Hilda Doolittle)
From Tribute to the Angels
Marianne Moore
Sea Unicorns and Land Unicorns
T.S. Eliot
[The Waste Land]
St.- John Perse
From Anabasis
Edith Sitwell
From Facade
Still Falls the Rain
The Madwoman in the Park
Osip Mandelstam
From Tristia
Whoever Finds a Horseshoe
Poem No. 286 (On Stalin)
The Charlie Chaplin Poem
Last Poems
Edith Sodergran
Hell
Vierge Moderne
Instinct
Cesar Vallejo
From Trilce: IX, XXV, LXXV
The Hungry Man's Wheel
Telluric and Magnetic
Vicente Huidobro
From Altazor: Cantos I, VI, VII
Jorge de Lima
Distribution of Poetry
Papa John
The Enormous Hand
Poem of Any Virgin
J.V. Foix
When I Sleep, Then I See Clearly
I Arrived in That Town, Everyone Greeted Me, and I
Recognized No One. When I Was Going to Read My Verses,
the Devil, Hidden Behind a Tree, Called Out to Me
Sarcastically and Filled My Hands with Newspaper
Clippings
Marina Tsvetayeva
From "The Poem of the End"
e.e. cummings
No Thanks, No. 70
Poem, or Beauty Hurts Mr. Vinal
Lucian Blaga
I will not Crush the World's Corolla of Wonders
Psalm
Jacob Glatshteyn
To a Friend Who Wouldn't Bother to Strain His
Noodleboard Because Even So It Is Hard to Go Hunting When
Your Rifle Is Blunt and Love Is Soft As an Old Blanket
Eugenio Montale
The Lemon Trees
The Eel
Little Testament
Paul van Ostaijen
The Murderers
Hart Crane
The Mango Tree
The Circumstance
O Carib Isle!
Frederico Garcia Lorca
Night Suite, for Piano & Poet's Voice
Ode for Walt Whitman
Surrealism
Prologue to Surrealism
Andre Breton
From Manifesto of Surrealism (1924)
Robert Desnos
Trance Event
Language Event One
Language Event Two
Andre Breton
A Man and Woman Absolutely White
Free Union
Poem-Object
On The Road to San Romano
Go-for-Broke
Philippe Soupault
Four Poems
Route
Life-Saving Medal
Sporting Goods
Sunday
Comrade
Louis Aragon
Poem to Shout in the Ruins
Benjamin Peret
My Final Agonies
Joan of Arc
On All Fours
Robert Desnos
Cuckoo
Midway
Epitaph
Tristan Tzara:
Maison Aragon
From The Approximate Man
Gisele Prassinos
Hair Tonic
A Conversation
Paul Eluard/Andre Breton
From The Immaculate Conception
Salvador Dali
The Great Masturbator
Max Ernst
From The Hundred Headless Woman
Antonin Artaud
All Writing is Garbage
The Spurt of Blood
"Objectivists"
Prologue to "Objectivists"
Ezra Pound
Vortex.Pound.
William Carlos Williams
From Spring and All
Louis Zukofsky
From Poem beginning "The"
George Oppen
Discrete Series
Charles Reznikoff
Testimony
Carl Rakosi
A Journey Away
Basil Bunting
From The First Book of Odes
"Weeping oaks grieve, chestnuts raise"
Vestiges
The Orotava Road
Negritude
Prologue to Negritude
Aime Cesaire
Macumba Word
Aime Cesaire & Rene Depestre
From Discourse on Colonialism
Leopold Sedar Senghor
Speech and Image: An African Tradition of the Surreal
Taga for Mbaye Dyob
Man and Beast
The Kaya-Magan
Leon Damas
Just Like the Legend
S.O.S.
Hiccups
Aime Cesaire
From Notebookof a Return to the Native Land
The Miraculous Weapons
A Third Gallery
Anna Ahkmatova
Requiem
Nelly Sachs
Chorus of the Dead
Chorus of the Stars
Hugh MacDiarmid
From A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle
David Jones
Miyazawa Kenji
Spring and the Ashura
Daydreaming on the Trail
Pictures of the Floating World
Bertolt Brecht
First Psalm (Posthumous)
Three Fragments
Alabama Song
Melvin Tolson
From The Harlem Gallery: Book I, the Curator
Henri Michaux
From Slices of Knowledge
Tomorrow
Francis Ponge
The Oyster
From The Sun Placed in the Abyss
Wen Yiduo (Wen I-to)
Dead Water
Miracle
Vitezslav Nezval
City with Towers
Trap Door
George Seferis
The Poplar Leaf
Mathios Paskalis Among the Roses
Les Anges Sont Blancs
Laura Riding
Elegy in a Spider's Web
Gyula Illyes
A Winter Memory
While the Record Plays
Nazim Hikmet
Letters from Chankiri Prison
Langston Hughes
From Montage of A Dream Deferred
Carlos Drummond de Andrade
The Dead in Frock Coats
The Dirty Hand
Motionless Faces
Lorine Niedecker
News
Subliminal
Nicolas Guillen
Don't Know No English
Sensemaya
Wake for Papa Montero
Moon
The Usurers
From The Daily Daily
Pablo Neruda
Walkin' Around
Sexual Water
Only Death
Louis Zukofsky
From Songs of Degrees
"A" 1
Kenneth Rexroth
From Prolegomena to a Theodicy
Kusano Shimpei
Birthday Party
4 or 5 Tadpoles
Skylarks and Fuji
Gunnar Ekelof
Like Ankle-Rings, This Music
If You Ask Me
Absentia Animi
Rene Char
From Leaves of Hypnos
Roger Gilbert-Lecomte
Preface or The Drama of Absence in an Eternal Heart
The Son of the Bone Speaks
Old Precept of the Dead World
Wink
Rene Daumal
From Clavicles for a Great Poetic Game
Persephone That is to Say Double Issue
Short Revelation Concerning Death and Chaos
Miklos Radnoti
The Angel of Dread
Seventh Eclogue
Yi Sang
From Crow's-Eye-View
Paper Memorial Stone
Soyong Problems
From Critical Condition
Muriel Rukeyser
The Dam
Octavio Paz
Hymn among the Ruins
A Book of Origins
Prologue to Origins
Confucius / Ezra Pound
From The Great Digest
Orpingalik (Netsilik Eskimo / Inuit)
"Songs are thoughts, sung out with the breath..."
Arunta (Australia)
Alcheringa Definitions
Leopold Sedar Senghor
LThe African image is not an image by equation..."
Allama Prabhu (Kannada, India)
For the Lord of Caves
Clayton Eshleman
Placements I
Robert Duncan
From "Rites of Participation"
Amiri Baraka (LeRoi Jones)
From Why's/Wise
Aborigine Sound Poem (Australia)
Lily Events (Arnhem Land, Australia)
From The Goulburn Island Cycle (Arnhem Land, Australia)
Tristan Tzara
From Poemes Negres
The Dance of the Greased Women
Tropical Winter
Awotunde Aworinde
From Ifa Suite in Praise of the Yoruba Oracle
Aime Cesaire
Ex-Voto for a Shipwreck
Three for Bear
Seven Songs & Song Pictures
Richard Johnny John, Jerome Rothenberg, Ian Tyson
Songs from the Society of the Mystic Animals
Simon Ortiz
Telling About Coyote
From Cantares Mexicanos
Maria Sabina
From The Midnight Velada
The 13th Horse Song of Frank Mitchell
From The I Ching
The Marrying Maiden
Jackson Mac Low
Mani-Mani Gatha
Ezra Pound
Canto 49
Charles Olson
The Song of Ullikummi
Armand Schwerner
Tablet V
From The Thunder, Perfect Mind
Diane Di Prima
From Loba
Doc Reese
Ol' Hannah
Naftali Bacharach
A Poem for the Sefirot as a Wheel of Light
Jacques Gaffarel
Celestial Alphabet Event
Edmond Jabes
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 21:50:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: MOO
In-Reply-To: <13EC3A6467D@ccnov2.auckland.ac.nz>
A MOO is a MUD-Object-Oriented, and a MUD is a multi-user-domain or
dungeon; these developed out of role-playing games like Dungeons and
Dragons. The MUDs developed into various other forms, and the MOO is one
of them; it's a textual space, a virtual (textual) environment in which
users can both talk to one another in real time, and building/construct
various rooms, objects, etc. - again, all textual. LambdaMOO was the
first, began by Pavil Curtis at xeroxparc; Media MOO is run by the MIT
Media Lab (it's overt virtual space is that of the lab itself); and PMC
Moo, which I'm "active" on, is down at the moment, coming back as PMC2
(post-modern-culture, run out of the University of Virginia). To get to
Media MOO, telnet:
telnet 18.85.0.48 8888
and sign in as guest. Some commands: help gives you all kinds of
information; @go #<number> takes you to a location as in
@go #2014
which will take you to Tiffany;
say <xyz>
results in someone else reading
Guest says "xyz"
@join <name>
takes you to name, and
emote is feeling happy
results in someone else reading
Guest is feeling happy.
There are a number of commands; it takes a while to get used to it, but
becomes simpler as you go along. I've not been on Lambda, which has
thousands of users; Media is almost empty. PMC has been going through a
lot of politics and is changing as I've said.
These programs can run 35-40 megabytes, although the basics are around 4
megabytes; they also run in RAM and are downloaded several times a day,
in case of disk failure. The most sophisticated, like Media, have
libraries and research tools within them, like gopher and ftp access,
usable by groups of people at a time.
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 21:53:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: crow moan weather
In-Reply-To: <199509262156.VAA04533@fraser.sfu.ca>
This reminded me of in the mountains work I have done; this weekend I was
in the mountains with two women both of whom had their brothers commit
suicide this past year. & one of the brothers had seen The Crow and
wanted to come back as a crow and help people and had said that shortly
before he died. & he hung himself on a jungle gym. In the mountains I
stayed in his room and a week before the anniversary of his death a dead
crow was found in the center of his bed. & everyone is scared.
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:21:03 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ryan Knighton <knighton@SFU.CA>
Subject: METHOD
In-Reply-To: <199509262156.VAA04533@fraser.sfu.ca> from "George Bowering" at
Sep 26, 95 02:56:20 pm
METHOD
under glass the sphynx purrs
table sunshine heiroglyphics
my cat sleeps yawns away 3000years
toppledown tired maybe
Ellie still stirs sheds a coat of
museum dust
then with her bedlam tongue
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:23:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: AWOL Small press distribution
AWOL Small press distribution
four W magazine now available from Gleebooks
four W is a literary magazine published by the Wagga Wagga Writers Writers
with the assistance of Booranga, The Riverina Writers' Centre at Charles
Sturt University.
Issue 5, which is currently available from Gleebooks 49 Glebe Point Road
Glebe NSW phone (02) 6602333, includes poetry and prose by Dorothy Porter,
Steve Evans, Jeff Guess, Tim Thorne, Kate Llewellyn, Ken Boulton & John
Jenkins, Richard James Allen, Coral Hull, MTC Cronin, Myron Lysenko, David
Gilbey, Margaret Bradstock, Rory Harris, David King, Kyle Powderly, Mark
O'Flyn, Archimede Fusillo and many more.
Issue 6, together with The Famous Reporter, Hermes, A Familiar Need: An
Anthology of Poems from the Maitland & Hunter River Region edited by Bruce
Copping - Nimrod Publications, Brian Purcell's Lovely Infestation - we
make u sick press and Sheila Murphy's A Clove of Gender - Stride Press
(UK) and Pure Mental Breath - Gesture Press (Canada), should be available
from a quality Sydney bookshop near you shortly.
These titles are distributed in Sydney by Australian Writing On Line, PO
Box 333 Concord NSW. Phone (02) 747 5667, Fax (02) 747 2802.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 23:42:31 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marjorie Perloff <perloff@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Donald Davie
In-Reply-To: <199509270403.VAA09822@leland.Stanford.EDU>
I too mourn the loss of Donald Davie! I first met Donald at one of those
Pound conferences at Orono and he was feisty and terrific: I like his
first Pound book very much, ARTICULATE ENERGY even better. But he was a
very difficult and self-destructive person. When I published my Frank
O'Hara book, he wrote me a letter scolding me for writing about such a
terrible person and objected vehemently to Frank's being gay. "The
Muse," he told me, "is female!" and so GAYS CAN'T WRITE POETRY! An
amazing, absurd letter. He took the line, "I drink to keep from getting
bored," and said "If he's so bored let him leave poetry to those of us
who are not bored!" etc etc.
At some point in the 70s, he seemed to derail somewhat. Having been such
a passionate fighter for the new, he left Stanford first for Vanderbilt
(which he sadly and mistakenly took for the "Old South") and then back to
England and became increasingly pugnacious and defensive. I suspect it
was because he felt his poetry wasn't getting its due--and it's true (to
my mind) that DD was much better critic than poet. But he did write some
wonderful reviews (collected in Barry Alpert's book) and essays on
Pound. One of the best is the one about a walking tour in Provence and
how geography works in poetry. He wrote brilliantly about syntax: the
difference a shift to the past tense could make. But his politics became
increasingly problematic as did his social/cultural attitudes--and so it
was a sad last few years.
It's interesting to me that Ira is so keen on the poetry--makes me want
to go back and reread.
Marjorie Perloff
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:00:09 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: or
on Tues 26 Sept, Mark Roberts wrote:
zap rengas=8A
or The Zenga Rap
on Mon 25 Sept Jordan Davis wrote:
don't forget the old
"is there really a David
Ayre"
this is a Les Ayre
TC/PG
BS
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:38:23 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Rights and Rengas
In-Reply-To: <199509270403.FAA06573@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
Whoops! Sorry to tread thus upon Charles's toes - I'd deleted all
previous postings on this (as I had all Rengas) and had forgotten that
anyone had dissented. It's a nice point, and you could all waste many
legal $$$ on it if you're so inclined:
(a) one refusal to reproduce does indeed scupper the whole collaborative
project, unless it can be agreed that
(b) it was a collaborative project from the outset, with everyone
accepting the possibility of collective revision.
I must say it looked pretty collaborative to me, from the outside - but
can I join those urging the Renga set to go into the back room and sort
it amongst themselves?
RC
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:24:20 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Donald Davie
In-Reply-To: <199509270403.FAA06573@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
Good to read so many positive testimonials to Donald Davie. Like many I
grew up with his criticism around me, particularly the Pound work, and
I'll miss him, grumpiness and all. It seemed to fall on me to disagree
with him in public quite a lot - such as (a) when he suggested that the
Native North Americans are absent from Lorine Niedecker's Lake Superior,
(b) when he argued that Bunting was a poet of religious orthodoxy and (c)
when he asserted that Zukofsky wasn't worth talking about. So that when we
met we were both a little surprised to find that the other wasn't as
fierce as we'd expected. The remarkable thing was that he did generally
continue talking about such people when most UK "establishment" critics
didn't.
In his south-yorkshire bloody-mindedness ("the Geoff Boycott of
literature" someone said) Davie was very like the late Eric Mottram - a
comparison which would make both of them grumble a lot. But where Davie
came to assert tradition and authority, Mottram remained committed to
everything radical. With mentors like these, what shall we do but go
schizophrenic? And miss them both, in their various ways.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x x
x Richard Caddel, E-mail: R.I.Caddel @ durham.ac.uk x
x Durham University Library, Phone: 0191 374 3044 x
x Stockton Rd. Durham DH1 3LY Fax: 0191 374 7481 x
x x
x "Words! Pens are too light. Take a chisel to write." x
x - Basil Bunting x
x x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:46:23 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: R I Caddel <R.I.Caddel@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Meanwhile, back in the Orient...
In-Reply-To: <199509270403.FAA06573@tucana.dur.ac.uk>
Has anyone mentioned the latest Parataxis? It's an anthology of Chinese
poetry in translation:
ORIGINAL : Chinese Language-Poetry Group, translated by Jeff Twitchell
from contemporary Chinese poetry by the ORIGINALS, Che Qianzi, Zhou
Yaping, Yi Cun, Hong Liu, Huang Fan and Xian Meng, including manifestoes,
letters, critical sketches and an afterword by J.H.Prynne.
Parataxis #7, 1995, four pounds, from Drew Milne, School of English and
American Studies, University of Sussex, Falmer, Brighton, BN1 9QN, UK.
RC
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:53:38 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: Rengas and Williams
Although I spoke kindly of the renga and asked to print a piece of it,
it does begin to seem like one of those dancing diseases that they
caught in the Middle Ages.
I wouldn't want to make more trouble for anyone, but a few simple
electronic commands on the Buffalo listserver would set up another
list called "Renga" --or maybe "Rengaroom"--no that has too many
letters.
Meantime, I think I have come across something that illustrates
exactly what Williams did for us in writing "Spring and All." Compare
that poem with this one, copyright 1911, by Cordie Webb Ingram whose
face peers out with innocent wonder from the frontespiece of her
collection of poems, published by Broadway Publishing.
SPRINGTIME
By Cordie Webb Ingram
It is springtime, happy springtime, once again,
All Nature seems aroused as if from sleep;
The bird's notes thrill us--oh, so clear and deep--
The western zephyrs round us gently sweep,
And whisper promises of joy for pain.
There is a hint of active life within the wood;
The brown, bare limbs of winter turning green,
The bare earth woos a fresher, brighter, sheen,
The subtle snunlight steals the leaves, between,
As if these children of the forest understaood.
The frisky squirrel leaps from bough to bough
[I don't think I care to type in more about the squirrel]
There is a mighty whispering 'neath the soil.
The infant plants anticipate the light,
And vaguely dream of time, when they bedight,
Will flaunt themselves in shades, red, green, and white;
Transition strange, accomplished without toil.
[after several more stanzas the poem ends with the assertion that
"sweet Springtime...keeps us daily from the Tempter's snare."]
Now Williams:
By the road to the contagious hospital
under the surge of the blue
mottled clouds driven from the
northeast--a cold wind. Beyond, the
waste of broad, muddy fields
brown with dried weeds, standing and fallen
patches of standing water
the scattering of tall trees
All along the road the reddish
purplish, forked, upstanding, twiggy
stuff of bushes and small trees
with dead, brown leaves under them
leafless vines--
Lifeless in appearance, sluggish
dazed spring approaches--
They enter the new world naked,
cold, uncertain of all
save that they enter. All about them
the cold, familiar wind--
Now the grass, tomorrow
the stiff curl of wildcarrot leaf
One by one objects are defined--
It quickens: clarity, outline of leaf
But now the stark dignity of
entrance--Still, the profound change
has come upon them: rooted they
grip down and begin to awaken.
It would be easy to write pages of commentary comparing these two
poems. A couple of similarities seem to me even more remarkable than
all their differences. But Williams's is like some huge and at first
discordant organ blast--and yet completely unpretentious.
Tom Kirby-Smith
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:37:16 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: MOO
i'm not sure what tony green has meant in his posting by "techniqualities"
but i confess to be intrigued by this. could i be let in too?
burt kimmelman
kimmelman@admin.njit.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:01:29 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
Ron Silliman's side comment, a few days ago, that "bland abstract
lyrics" are now the dominant strain of avant garde writing in 1995 is
a criticism that emerging avant garde writers need to pay close attention
to. The silence attending his remark (which, admittedly, he made on the
side of other
concerns) is disturbing. Do the younger avant garde writers on this list
accept Ron's characterization? Are the potential implications of such a
comment (that new avant garde writers are out of touch, apolitical, or
otherwise spaced out) also things that you accept? I think that there's a
far vaster range of committed, intelligent, and innovative emerging
writers out there than such a comment would imply, although it may be
true that there's more bland abstract disengagement than we ought to be
comfortable with. Whatever the truth of Ron's statement, is it acceptable
for younger writers to let an older, justifiably respected writer such as
Ron Silliman be the only commentator on this list on the subject of
what emerging avant garde writers are up to? Would not quiet on this
subject imply a (perhaps unintentional) public agreement,
an implied agreement that we ought very definitely to challenge?
Mark Wallace
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:07:33 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: Donald Davie
My one vivid recollection of Donald Davie comes from the late 1960s,
at Stanford. Bruce Franklin, who was organizing an armed militia
(The Venceremos Brigade), would challenge fellow faculty members to
political debates. Franklin was quite popular with the students; he
was also a quick thinker. Nearly all of the faculty refused the
offer of a public debate. (Bear in mind, these teach-ins took place
during a series of three successive springs when we shut down the
campus.) Davie was the only one who took up Franklin's offer. The
position that Davie took, which befuddled nearly everyone, was an
advocacy of the value of irony, a position which he articulated based
in part on some writings by Thomas Mann....
Hank Lazer
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:40:11 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>SEM-CC-JG BRANCH 9/19/95 J adding to C adding to J adding to S
>
>> >> >> >in the books were dreams and in the dreams were
>> >> >> >books.And flew > >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> (...)
>> >> >> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >spending the bulk of closure with sentient scoops
>> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> that fluke picnic shot out of these worlds we spread
>>been-
>to
>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> say that the center cannot hold the nose tackle much
>>longe
>r
>> >> >> >>> >than a clam can sleeve out of incarceration baldly
>> >> >> >>> go where others fear to operate the biggest donors hive
>> >> >> >>> & where Mars collides with the small world of "It's a small
>> >>world
>> >"
>> >> >> >ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
>> >> >> from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
>> >> > ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
>> >> this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
>> > detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
>> pitchpipe with its squeal subtracted and the dotted-line relationships
>and sing "I Love Time but I love Your Spatial Simulacra Much More"
>> for the brevity inferred and for the latchkey touch more like a feather
>> drizzling blood of picklet beet all over the related phenomena
> braising from punch a drunk streak which no absolute bearings flew
off the Handel I did not miss for Pergolesi was by the pergola with
shadows of her former selves implanting pre-recorded brick
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:46:59 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Poetic Briefs #19
Poetic Briefs #19, The Review Issue, featuring short commentaries
on a large number of new books of poetry, is now available. PB #19 also
features a special supplement--"Emerging Avant Garde Writers and the
'Post-Language Crisis,'" an essay by Mark Wallace.
Poetic Briefs is encouraging responses on the supplement around
the issues and problems facing new and emerging avant garde writers. What
roles are we playing? What places do we find ourselves in? What problems
of form/finances/culture face emerging avant garde writers? Poetic Briefs
encourages any and all short (and even longer) responses.
The new address for Poetic Briefs:
Poetic Briefs
2510 Highway 100 South #333
St. Louis Park, MN 55416
Subscriptions are $10 for six 16-pg. issues, or $3 for a single
or back issue.
(I'm posting this message for Jeff Hansen and Elizabeth Burns,
who will be joining us on-line very soon.)
mw
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:10:17 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Daniel Bouchard/College/hmco <Daniel_Bouchard@HMCO.COM>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
My mail system was "down" for a few days so I missed Ron's original
posting. I am gladly unsure whether my own poetry would be considered "avant
garde," but because I fall into the "young" category I wanted to voice my
opinion. My poetry is certainly not bland or abstract, altho at times it is
lyrical. It is also consciously political: in strains of Olson, Howe, Rexroth,
Baraka, Patchen, Oppen, Duncan and Silliman.
I can relate, however, with the generalizations made about young writers today
as implied by Mark's questions. There are few writers my age I know who have
political concerns- or at least who let those concerns show in their poetry.
They may admire the poets I listed but not for the same reasons: that their
poetry possesses attentions to the past and present and regards politics as a
major player in individual lives.
On the other hand, there are more poets my age I have neither read nor met than
otherwise. I cannot agree that any generational issues can be firmly
characterized while that generation is still "emerging."
As for "letting" Ron be the only commentator about what emerging writers are up
to: well, he's no longer the only one. Altho, I've learned much from Ron's
writings, and am always interested in what he has to say.
daniel_bouchard@hmco.com
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:52:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509270907.A12933-0100000@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Thank you, Mark, for bringing this up.
Since I would very much like to learn from the old avant guardists
I would need some ***concrete*** examples of bland abstract lyrics so as
to avoid them and of nonbland nonabstract lyrics so as to emulate them.
Jorge
On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Mark Wallace wrote:
> Ron Silliman's side comment, a few days ago, that "bland abstract
> lyrics" are now the dominant strain of avant garde writing in 1995 is
> a criticism that emerging avant garde writers need to pay close attention
> to. The silence attending his remark (which, admittedly, he made on the
> side of other
> concerns) is disturbing. Do the younger avant garde writers on this list
> accept Ron's characterization? Are the potential implications of such a
> comment (that new avant garde writers are out of touch, apolitical, or
> otherwise spaced out) also things that you accept? I think that there's a
> far vaster range of committed, intelligent, and innovative emerging
> writers out there than such a comment would imply, although it may be
> true that there's more bland abstract disengagement than we ought to be
> comfortable with. Whatever the truth of Ron's statement, is it acceptable
> for younger writers to let an older, justifiably respected writer such as
> Ron Silliman be the only commentator on this list on the subject of
> what emerging avant garde writers are up to? Would not quiet on this
> subject imply a (perhaps unintentional) public agreement,
> an implied agreement that we ought very definitely to challenge?
>
> Mark Wallace
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:07:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Beth Russell <ER0595@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: CALL FOR WORK
CALL FOR WORK
VISUAL BEHAVIORS/Digital PRODUCTIONS
THE LITTLE MAGAZINE VOL.21B, an extension of the
Volume 21 CD-ROM project, is now accepting work
suitable for electronic publication on the World
Wide Web. We are looking particularly for writing,
(poetry, fiction, criticism, theory or multi-genre
work), visual and sound art conceived as multi-media:
visual/verbal/aural/textual and hypertextual collaborations.
We invite you to exercise the possibilities in ways
WE haven't even thought of (and we lay awake pondering these
things at night.) The limits (as always) are only those
which the technology still places on the imagination and
vice versa. The proposed theme of the upcoming magazine is
VISUAL BEHAVIORS. Please feel free to stretch and
manipulate this theme to suit your purposes. Send work
from September 1, 1995 through February 1996.
Sooner is better.
SEND TO: WWW Editorial Collective
THE LITTLE MAGAZINE
Department of English
University at Albany
Albany, New York 12222
E-mail: BG1640@cnsvax.albany.edu
or litmag@cnsunix.albany.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:08:06 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Royal Albert Hall Do-wingy
Responding to William Northcutt - I have here a leaflet advertising this bash.
You can get tickets in advance from the promoter, Goldmark, Orange Street,
Uppingham, Rutland, UK, telephone 01572 821 424. They cost 15 pounds, 12 pounds
50 and 10 pounds. But I should imagine you'd get in if you turn up at the Albert
Hall on the day. (Which is 16 Oct, at 7.30pm.)
Goldmark is run by Mike Goldmark, the eccentric second-hand book dealer and
gallery owner who championed Iain Sinclair by privately publishing his first
novel, White Chappell.
I can't imagine this venture will be other than a financial disaster but I'm
intrigued to hear the mix (Kathy Acker and Sorley MacLean on the same bill? Our
own cris cheek with Ginsberg?), so we shall see...
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:08:09 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: All rengae sound the same
It is / they are beginning to remind me of the blob in the eponymous film.
Steve McQueen, where are you?
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:10:01 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeff Hansen <Jeff_Hansen@BLAKE.PVT.K12.MN.US>
Organization: The Blake School
Subject: newpoets
Hi! I'm Jeff Hansen, and I've just subscribed.
mark Wallace's challenge to emerging poets to answer Silliman's claim that we
are producing boring lyrics is worth paying attention to. How many young poets
has Ron read? Should he have much authority if he does not know much about us?
Could he name names please?
the reason i ask for such specificity is because, well, of course some of us
are boring lyric writers. but aren't most poets in any generation not going to
set the world on fire? Many of us do not write lyrics, and those that do
cannot be easily dismissed. Can the work of Juliana Spahr be considered bland
lyrics? For heaven sakes, she collages together material that she heard on
Oprah! Is Stephen-Paul Martin considered part of this younger generation? If
so, how can his "The Flood" (Runaway Spoon Press) be considered lyrical? It
uses an electric typewriter to create the most arresting visual poetry I have
yet to encounter. And who's to say that the lyric is entirely outmoded? If
what Silliman wants of a new generation us formal aesthetic novelty, I doubt
he'll get it from us. But, as has often been mentioned, the "make it new"
manifesto is now standard marketing tool for corporate America (new and
improved ERA meets new and improved experimental poetry.)
May i suggest that "what's new" about this generation is its abject refusal to
believe that new techniques are better techniques, that we must forge ahead
into the wild blue yonder of aesthetic innovation, etc. Isn't there plenty of
room for experiment, exploration, and expression in the forms already
available? And if that makes me appear conservative, then where do you wnat us
to go? Into poems composed of keyboard symbols such as &***((^%^$$~!@???
Seems boring.
The wild blue yonder school of poetic innovation may have hit a wall, because
what's on the other side, after we break on through, might be nothing more
than innovation for innovation's sake. The advantage of working within the
"avant-garde" network is that it gives us a much wider assortment of formal
strategies, not that it sends us out.
Far Out Jeff Hansen
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:50:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Graham John Sharpe <gsharpe@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: millennium table of contents
it is an exciting list of names in the anthology. in the Thrid
Gallery David Jones is mentioned. Could i ask what selection has been
chosen from his work. it's a real shocker to even see him recognized,
so i'm not about to fuss what the selection is.
just call me curious and an anglo-welsh fan
graham
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:24:31 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Reginald Johanson <reginalj@SFU.CA>
Subject: bland abstract lyrics
As a young writer I would like to see some examples of what Ron
Silliman sees as "bland abstract lyrics" too.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:26:09 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: millennium table of contents
Comments: cc: Jerome Rothenberg <jrothenb@carla.ucsd.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199509271850.LAA13585@beaufort.sfu.ca> from "Graham John Sharpe"
at Sep 27, 95 11:50:23 am
Good question, Graham -- the answer is "none" -- for the 6 pages from
_In Parenthesis_ we wanted to include, Faber&Faber asked a permission
fee of more than $2000 (two thousanddollars), something quite
unacceptable to us. We decided,however, to leave his name in as well
the commentary on his work we had written. Jones is indeed one of the
most remarkable "British", well, anglo-welsh poets of that period &
someone whose work should be known & read much morewidely. -- Pierre
>
> it is an exciting list of names in the anthology. in the Thrid
> Gallery David Jones is mentioned. Could i ask what selection has been
> chosen from his work. it's a real shocker to even see him recognized,
> so i'm not about to fuss what the selection is.
>
> just call me curious and an anglo-welsh fan
>
> graham
>
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:21:56 EST
Reply-To: dgolumbia@iddis.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Golumbia <GOLUMBIA@IDDIS.IDDIS.COM>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
All I remember Ron S. saying was that he wondered how we got from
SPRING & ALL to "bland, one-page, abstract lyrics." It wasn't clear
to me that he meant orthodox or anti-orthodox, young or old, etc.
But I took the "bland" as the principal indictment, guessing that he
didn't mean to suggest that, say, Coolidge or Scalapino abstract
one-pagers were (are) worthless. I'm anxious to hear Ron's response
to all this -- I wonder if he's just letting this all go on to see
where it goes. I'm just as interested to know about Barret Watten's
recent "ambivalence" toward poetry, if Ron feels like filling us in.
--
dgolumbia@iddis.com
David Golumbia
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:40:41 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:01:29 -0400 from
<mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
I find it an interesting leap for Mark to make that Ron was necessarily
referring to younger writers as being those for whom the air was coming
out of the lyrical balloon. If we accept the bait, that Ron is casting
doubt on a new generation (rather than, say, his casting a wider net of
concern over poetry generally), then perhaps a younger generation will
have to articulate the multiplicity of designs it has on the future of
poetics. Variantly, if Ron's concern is more general, then everyone is
welcome to leap in, and contemplate.
Question. Where does the younger generation begin? End? What can be said
to be holding it together? What could be said to be holding together the
previous generation? How do we define the parameters of that generation?
Is it useful to generalize (say, poets from city x like to write about
boats, whereas those from city b are likely to use gerunds a great deal,
and poets who are friends with a tend to disdain representation...). Are
movements in poetry fluid or static? Are poets?
Gale Nelson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:01:05 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Deguy/Wright/abstract
Michel Deguy and Kenneth Koch will read on Thursday October 5 at 8 p.m. at
Maison Francaise, New York University.
*
Anybody read Jay Wright?
*
I admire the abstract lyric. I have yet to stop reading anything anyone
here says not to read. I like certain bland things, they cleanse. Is that
transitive? Do I have to give up the blandness of Henry James, or the
blandness of William Carlos Williams, or the blandness of Robert Duncan (a
wildly interesting bland and abstract poet) to appreciate the blandness of
Bruce Andrews I mean badboyness? Mark, I think it will be intensely boring
to defend the younger generation. What Ron asked was, how did it happen
that the bland abstract (one-page) lyric poem became the norm. It might be
better to keep nattering away at how this (alleged) change happened. I
blame the blandness of John Ashbery or rather the blandness of the vapor
that settles over the reader who tries to follow his seductive jumps.
Imitators produce works that mimic his jumps and connections without and I
know I'm treading on you (not you Mark, whose work seems ((productively))
closer to John Godfrey's work) both the cerulean and the gunk. But I'm
wrong, of course, in something like the way Ron is wrong.
Jordan Davis
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:32:58 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: MOO
Burt K: the word is a portmanteau: " techniqalities " composed on the
instant, for "how the hell do you do these things?" that Alan
Sondheim mooted. To which by now his reply will be known to all.Best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:46:06 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Rengas and Williams
WCW as a rewriter, by juxtaposition is a nice move. How about Ed's
critical jaundice re WCW emerging as further rewrite of spring poems
quoted by H.T.Kirby-Smith? How shd it look late in 1995, or shd we
wait till Spring 1996? Best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:57:03 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: David Jones
I'm glad to see D Jones included. I didn't read his writing until the
70's, but remember him vividly as a man who used to come to have tea
with the art master at my school, the calligrapher and painter
Maurice Percival (towards whom I had ambivalent
feelings, since he was on the one hand enthusiastic and encouraging
and on the other deeply and conservatively restrictive). So at that
time it never occurred to me that David Jones was anything other
than of the same kind. Best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:06:12 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Donald Davie
south-yorkshire bloody-mindedness is maybe one
mode of survival in a culture that bludgeons regularly
any but sanctioned positions isn't Boycott altogether
milder and more amenable, after all he does still get work
as a TV commentator?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:41:38 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95092716500300@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> from "Gale Nelson"
at Sep 27, 95 04:40:41 pm
No, I dont have any experience of a "generation" being "held
together". I do have, as others will, companions in poetry, as Blaser
puts it, but these include those poets you grew up with close, as I
with Fred Wah, or Blaser with Duncan; but these companions (despite
what Ed Foster might believe) include long-dead poets too, so that
Blaser includes Pindar, and I would if I were not so shy, include
Shelley.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:52:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: millennium table of contents
In-Reply-To: <199509271850.LAA13585@beaufort.sfu.ca> from "Graham John Sharpe"
at Sep 27, 95 11:50:23 am
Where is it a shock to see David Jones selected? Around here he has
been for a long time considered along with Basil Bunting the main
news from the UK.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:00:21 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509270907.A12933-0100000@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> from
"Mark Wallace" at Sep 27, 95 10:01:29 am
Maybe we can come to Silliman's challenge from what only appears to
be thje other side.
Ge
orge Bowering
THE READER & YOU
When we were sitting in our rows in high school English
class, we
were instructed that we should be careful to distinguish between the
person
who had written the fiction we were reading (usually Katherine
Mansfield)
and the narrator of that fiction. We were given to understand that
this was
a matter of the first necessary sophistication, and that from then on
we
could curl our lip and raise an eyebrow whenever we heard someone say
"Katherine Mansfield said in her story . . . ."
It has taken me more years than I spent in high school to
figure out
that the principle involved works in other places as well. Here are
two such
examples:
(1) The distinction between the person who writes a poem,
even a
short tidy lyric poem, and the voice you hear reciting it while you
look at
the silent book. That is to say, if you tell me that you re reading
Whitman,
I know that you are listening to the speaker he made up. People are
going
to tell me that I am discussing the persona here. But there is a
difference
between Prufrock and the voice speaking in a Fred Wah poem. Maybe
Eliot has two voices between himself and the reader. Anyway, when
Whitman wrote that his reader was encountering a man rather than a
book,
he was protesting against the fate that he knew faced any writer of
the first
person singular or "ensemble," that as soon as he writes those words
on a
piece of paper he has an other to read.
(2) The distinction between "the reader" and the person who
is
holding the silent book and reading it.
Sometimes I go so far as to say that the "author" and the
"reader" are
characters in any story. (The implications are interesting if you
extend this
structure to speeding tickets and marriage certificates.)
How often you or I have read something in criticism or theory
about
"the reader," and realized that this construct is as distinct from us
as is
Patrick Henry or Spider Robinson.
Anyone knows that literature is an idea but reading is what
you do.
Literature cant hurt you but reading can.
(I am of course in my own ant-trap here, because no matter
what I
do, the "you" I am talking about is not the person reading these
words, are
you?)
So that construct that certain critics like to write about,
"the reader,"
cant do anything about what is written. But if you are reading a book
you
can intervene. You can invent a reading.
You can always skip page 35. You can read from the last page
to the
first. You can stick pages from a pornographic novel between Northrop
Frye's sheets. You can call the narrator of Atwood's second novel
Agnes.
Or you can intervene simply by reading the way you read.
The person who wrote the book cant stop you. The "author"
cant,
either. And the "reader" doesnt know you exist.
A lot of what they call "reflexive" writing is simply the
result of the
writer trying to be you. You are the ground of the so-called
postmodern.
-------
Apologies for the (a) length and (c) weird spacing, if yr getting it.
GB
,
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 19:46:06 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "SUSAN E. TICHY" <stichy@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MILLENNIUM TABLE OF CONTENT
In-Reply-To: <199509270100.VAA26368@loki.hum.albany.edu>
I too am thrilled by the selection, by the project itself. But where, o
where, is Mina Loy? My soul deflated considerably when I paged in vain
through all the galleries... are her poems to remain as fugitive as her
bowery constructions?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 12:09:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: AWOL: October Happenings (State listing)
*** Note ***
Because of the length of Happenings it has been necessary to split the
file. October Happenings has been posted in 2 parts. The first part is the
state by state guide to readings, book launches etc, while the second part
includes information on competitions and conferences. Depending on the mail
reader you are using the post may be further split into smaller sections.
Please let me know if this procedure has caused any problems.
Mark Roberts
*** ***
October Happenings
A monthly guide to writing events around Australia.
AUSTRALIAN WRITING ON LINE
PO Box 333 CONCORD NSW 2137 AUSTRALIA
email: MRoberts@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Phone: (02) 747 5667 fax (02) 747 2802
AWOL Happenings. A monthly guide to readings, book launches, conferences
and other events relating to Australian literature both within Australia
and overseas. If you have any item which you would like included in future
listings please contact AWOL.
AWOL is also setting up a virtual bookshop for Australian small magazines
and presses. This will take the form of regular newsletters (which will be
available both on the net and by mail and fax) that will pre/review new
publications. These titles will then be able to be ordered by mail or fax.
Associated with our Virtual Bookshop is our Sydney distribution service for
small presses. Please contact us for further details if you want to
distribute your publication to bookshops in Sydney.
AWOL posts are archived on the WWW at the following address
http://www.anatomy.su.oz.au:80/danny/books/AWOL/ then click on Australian
Writing OnLine.
How to receive AWOL postings
Internet
All AWOL postings, including the monthly Happenings list, one off posts
about special events, the latest literary magazines and small press books,
together with information about AWOL's Virtual Bookshop, are available free
to subscribers with an internet address. Simply send a post, asking to be
added to our mailing list, to MRoberts@extro.ucc.su.oz.au.
Mail
Each month AWOL will post a hard copy of that month's Happenings list,
together with a copy of all special posts, to AWOL subscribers. While we
are setting up our Virtual Bookshop there will be a introductory charge of
$12.50 (for six months) to cover postage and printing costs (rates will be
reviewed early in 1996). Please send cheques, made payable to Rochford
Press, to AWOL, PO Box 333, Concord NSW 2137 (overseas rates on
application).
Fax
Subscribers in the 02 telephone area can elect to have the monthly
Happenings list and special posts faxed to them for $5.00 for six months.
Please send cheques, made payable to Rochford Press to AWOL, PO Box 333,
Concord NSW 2137. Subscribers outside the 02 area should contact us for
individual fax rates.
********************************************************************************
NSW
SYDNEY
READINGS BOOK LAUNCHES
Every Thursday Writers Anonymous at Tap Gallery level 1 278 Palmer Street
Darlinghurst. Details phone/fax 361 0440
Every second Tuesday...POETRY SUPREME 9pm, Eli's Restaurant, 132 Oxford
Street, Darlinghurst. Details phone/fax (02) 361 0440
11 October WEA Poetry Writing Workshop. 8 week course with Alan Jefferies.
Details ph (02) 264 2781.
21 October 7pm LAVENDER AND SHADOWS. Lesbian Writers read their work,
Lilyfield Community Centre 19 Cecily Street Lilyfield. $8 $6 conc.
Every Sunday...THE WORD ON SUNDAY 11.30am Museum of Contemporary Art,
Circular Quay. 2 Admission $8/ $5.. Details phone (02) 241 5876.
Every Thursday...POETRY ALIVE 11am-1pm, Old Courthouse, Bigge Street,
Liverpool. Details phone (02) 607 2541.
Every Tuesday night THE WALLS HAVE EARS at Little West Cafe 346 Liverpool
Street Darlinghurst 8.30 till late.
1st and 3rd Wednesday ...POETS UNION 7pm, The Gallery Cafe, 43 Booth
Street, Annandale. Details phone (02) 560 6209.
1st Friday...EASTERN SUBURBS POETRY GROUP 7.30pm, Everleigh Street,
Waverly. Details phone (02) 389 3041.
1st Tuesday...ICEBREAKERS GAY POETRY 8pm, 197 Albion Street Surry Hills. $2
includes free coffee. Details phone Noel Tointon (02) 3172257.
2nd & 4th Thursday...FRESH WORDS 7.30pm The Poets Union on Oxford Street,
Berkelouw Books, 19 Oxford Street Paddington. Guests and open section.
October 12 Tracy Ryan and John Kinsella with new issue of Salt launched by
Neil James Phone Anna (02) 365 6217 or 015 704 364 or Nick Sykes (02) 336
6938.
3rd Sunday...POETRY WITH GLEE: THE POETS UNION AT GLEEBOOKS. 2-4pm, 49
Glebe Point Road, Glebe. Admission $5/$2 Details Nick Sykes (02) 928 8607.
4th Monday of each month...FUTURE POETS SOCIETY 8pm, Lapidary Club Room,
Gymea Bay Road, Gymea. Details phone Anni Featherstone (02) 528 4736.
4th Wednesday...LIVE POETS AT DON BANKS MUSEUM 7.30pm, 6 Napier Street
North Sydney. Guest reader plus open section. Admission $6 includes wine.
Details phone Sue Hicks or Danny Gardiner (02) 908 4527.
Poets Union / State Library Workshops at the State Library Macquarie Street
Sydney 4th Saturday . October 28 John Bennett, November 25 Luke Davies.
Poets Union Inc. or The Library Society members $20 per workshop
Non-members $25 per workshop. Details phone 230 1500.
October 21 austraLYSIS presents the third and final concert in its 1995
concert series at the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, Macquarie Street
Sydney 8pm. COMPuting the sounds and VISIONS, in today's improVISATION
yesterday'sCOMPosiTIONS, and tomorrow's COMPRoVISATIONS. This concert is
titled 'Sighting Sounds: Visual and aural objects intermingle and
transmigrate.' Premieres of new work by Steve Adams, austraLYSIS, Colin
Bright (El Nino dances), Roger Dean (Electric Tomato), Adrian Luca; and
music by Ian Shanahan (Arc of Light). $18 (conc $12). Details ph (02) 523
2732, fax (02) 527 2139.
October 26 8pm Writers at the River, Roscoes Riverside Restaurant,
Penrith, NSW. 'In the Looking Glass' theme featuring Steven Herrick. Open
Section included. Details contact Carl Leddy (047) 21 2087.
October 28/29 Writers at the River at the Penrith City Festival - The
Wonder of Words Weekend.
Saturday 28 October - 10am to noon 'In days of old' master class at Vicarys
Winery Woolshed, 1.30 - 3pm 'Muses from hardship' master class at Vicarys
Winery Woolshed (master classes conducted by John Derum, Anthony Lawrence,
Patricia Gaut and Peter Minter). 6 - 7pm Twilight reading on the banks of
the Nepean River including the launch of Anthony Lawrence's new book Cold
Wires of Rain (Penguin) at 6.30pm. 7.15 - 10pm 'Inspiration through
conviviality' Poets festival dinner Hugo's Restaurant.
Sunday October 29. 'Writers on the River' Master classes, readings, lunch
and discussion aboard the 'Nepean Belle Paddle Wheeler'.
Cost $150. Special accommodation packages are available from a number of
local motels. For details about the festival, or the contact numbers of the
motels contact Carl Leddy ph/fax (047) 21 2087.
OCTOBER AT ARIEL BOOKSELLERS
5 October 6.30pm. Ariel Booksellers present an evening with Patricia
Lovell. Lovell, one of Australia's most influential film producers
(Gallipoli, Picnic at Hanging Rock), has written a autobiography No Picnic
which traces her career in the Australian film industry. RSVP to Ariel on
(02) 332 4581.
2 November 7pm. 3 parts Glamour. Gaby Naher (The Underwharf) and Linda
Jaivin (Eat Me). A reading and discussion chaired by Justine Ettler (The
River Ophelia). Free
Ariel Booksellers is at 42 Oxford Street Paddington. Phone (02) 332 4581,
fax (02) 360 9398.
OCTOBER AT GLEEBOOKS
Thursday 5 October 6pm. David Brooks book launch The House of Balthus
launched by David Malouf. Free
Friday 13 October 6.30pm. Thomas Keneally Homebush Boy - A Year in the Life
of Thomas Keneally. $6/4.
Monday 23 October 6.30pm. Peter Ackroyd will be reading from his biography
of William Blake. $6/4.
Tuesday 24 October 6.30pm. Readings by Joseph O'Connor, Matt Condon, Jack
Hodgins and Frank Ronan. $6/4.
Wednesday 25 October 6.30. Brian Moore will be reading from his book The
Statement. $6/4
Gleebooks is at 49 Glebe Point Road Glebe. For details and bookings for all
events ph (02) 6602333.
NSW WRITERS' CENTRE EVENTS
15 October WRITERS BY THE POOL, Rozelle Balmain Festival 11am at Elkington
Park Balmain near the pool. Winners of the NSW Writers Centre/ Village
Voice short story competition will be announced and will read their work.
Details contact NSWWC 02 555 9757
WOMEN WRITERS' NETWORK 2nd Wednesday. 7.30pm, NSW Writers' Centre.
Details Ann Davis (02) 716 6869.
FEMINIST & EXPERIMENTAL WRITERS' GROUP meets every second Friday
6.30-9.30pm. Details Margaret Metz (02) 231 8011 or Valerie Williamson for
details of venues.
INTRODUCTION TO WRITING FOR CD ROM (INTERACTIVITY). 29 October 1995. 10am -
5pm. An introduction to the world of CD ROM for writers with ideas. A
stimulating one day session for those interested in developing ideas,
interactive games and stories. Course conducted by David Jobling. $55
(members NSWWC) $65 (nonmembers). Limit of 20 places. Bookings and details
to NSWWC 02 555 9757
LIFE STORIES: A weekend workshop with Patti Miller. 4 & 5 November 1995.
This workshop is for people who want to get started on their life story or
the life story of a family member. $65 (members NSWWC & conc) $80
(nonmembers). Bookings and details to NSWWC 02 555 9757.
PUBLISHING & EDITING SEMINAR SERIES conducted by Robin Appleton. 7 October
- Publisher, author and copyright, 8 October & 14 October -Principles of
editing, 15 October - Parts of a book, 21 October - Lists, glossaries,
photographs and captions, 22 October - Indexing & proofreading. For cost
and bookings contact the NSWWC 02 555 9757.
CREATIVE WRITING COURSE with Colleen Burke. 8 weeks beginning 24 October.
$80 (members NSWWC $60 NSWWC conc) $100 (nonmembers). Limit 15. Bookings
and details to NSWWC 02 555 9757.
REGIONAL NSW
ARMIDALE 1st Wednesday 7.30pm, Rumours Cafe in the Mall. Details phone
James Vicars (067) 73 2103.
WOLLONGONG 2nd & 4th Tuesday 7.30pm, Here's Cheers Restaurant, 5 Victoria
Street, Wollongong. Details phone Ian Ryan (042) 84 0645.
LISMORE 3rd Tuesday 8pm. Stand Up Poets, Lismore Club, Club Lane. Details
phone David Hallett (066) 891318.
NEWCASTLE / HUNTER VALLEY
3rd Monday... Poetry at the Pub. Northern Star Hotel, 7.30pm Beaumont
Street Newcastle Street $2/$1. September features Springwood Poets. Details
phone Bill Iden (049) 675 972
MAITLAND Poetry group 4th Friday 7.30, Literary Institute in Banks Street
East Maitland. Guest poet Norman Talbot. $2. Details phone Bruce Copping
(049) 301497.
BLUE MOUNTAINS Friday Nights at Varuna Writers' Centre 7.30pm: Includes
tea, coffee & biscuits. $2 buys entry and a lucky door ticket. Varuna
Writers' Centre, 141 Casacade Street Katoomba NSW 2780. Details ph Peter
Bishop (047) 825 674.
13 - 15 October Blue Mountains Poetry Festival. Varuna Writers Centre and
the Poets Union at 141 Cascade Street Katoomba Details ph Peter Bishop
(047) 825 674.
WAGGA WAGGA
Tuesday 10 October 8pm Firenze Restaurant, John Griffin, current Booranga
fellowship holder, poet, short
story writer, radio scriptwriter from SA, will join (courtesy of the Poets'
Union) Peter Kirkpatrick, poet, editor, scholar and Beth Spencer, essayist,
poet for a fantastic evening of writers' readings. Open mike opportunities
for new work. Admission: $8, $6, $5.
12 October 7.30pm, Booranga Writers' Centre, Charles Sturt University John
Griffin (see above) will conduct a workshop on writing for radio.
Admission: $12, $10.
29 October 12.30 - 5pm, Booranga Writers' Centre, Charles Sturt University:
Margaret McAlister, children's/romance author, will conduct a workshop on
writing Romance. Admission: $25, $20.
Tuesday 31 October 8.00pm, Firenze Restaurant: Margaret McAlister Reading.
Admission: $8, $6,$5.
********************************************************************************
QUEENSLAND
Queensland Writers Centre Events
EXCITING WRITING: READINGS OF NEW WORKS AT THE QUEENSLAND WRITERS' CENTRE
Tuesday 3 October. 7pm. As part of Warana Writers' Week The Queensland
Writers' Centre Presents an evening of writing excellence at Grand Orbit, 1
Eagle Street, The Pier, City with Andrew McGahn, Robbie Lappan, Matthew
Condon, Fran Ross, Marcus Gibson, Michael Richards (including a preview of
his upcoming QTC production ' Christmas at Turkey Beach'). 'Paradise to
Paranoia' an anthology featuring many of the featured writers will be
launched by Laurie Muller and Marion Halligan. Tickets must be booked
before the event. Contact QWC for further details phone (07) 8391243.
Saturday 7 October 8.30am Romance Writers of Australia One Day Conference
at Lennons Hotel, Queen Street Mall, Brisbane. Speakers include Helen
Bianchin, Lu Cairncross, Kath Filmer Davies, Emily French and Meredith
Webber. Details phone (07) 3821 1373.
NOW AVAILABLE FROM THE QUEENSLAND WRITERS' CENTRE...... HANDBOOK FOR
QUEENSLAND WRITERS.
Contents include Preparation, Representation, Professional Issues and
Development and Funding. Cost $10 plus $1.50 postage for QWC members 0r
$15 plus $1.50 for non members. For more information contact the QWC.
WARANA WRITERS WEEK 1995
Sunday October 1 - Thursday 5 October.
Daily program in the Brisbane Customs House, evening events at various city
venues. Interstate visitors include Penelope Nelson, Damien Broderick,
Thomas Shapcott, Justine Ettler, Marion Haligan, Nick Enright, Gilian
Hanscombe, Victor Kelleher, Ursula Dubosarsky, Patsy Adam-Smith, Rosemary
Dobson and Fay Zwicky who will join many Queensland writers of fiction,
biography, poetry and drama including Helen Demidenko/Darville, Venero
Armanno, Jay Verney, Daynan Brazil, Hugh Lunn, Michael Noonan and Estelle
Pinney among others.Highlights include the Awards Dinner in the Customs
House on Sunday 1 October where the Steele Rudd Award, the David Unaipon
Award, the Premier's Poetry Award, the City of Brisbane Short Story Award
and the State Library Young Writers Award will be presented. The Festival
program is available from Brisbane libraries, Queensland Writers' Centre,
selected newsagents and booksellers, Brisbane City Council Information
Centres and the Warana Offices. Or phone the Warana Hotline on (07)
38522468.
******************************************************************************
VICTORIA
MELBOURNE
Last Friday 6.30pm MELBOURNE POETS Meeting and reading/workshop The
Hawthorn Lower Town Hall, 360 Burwood Road, Hawthorn (entry and car parking
at rear). 6.30pm meeting begins, 7.30pm reading/ workshop begins. Cost $3
(Members), $5 (non members). Details write to Martin French 1/16 Kent Road
Surrey Hills Vic 3127.
La Mama Poetica 2nd October La Mama 205 Faraday St Carlton. Jordie
Albiston and Diane Fahey who are both being published by Spinifex Press and
Warrick Wynne, who is having a collection published by Five Islands Press.
We will have our usual format with a discussion forum following the first
bracket, so come along with prepared to talk to the poets.
3rd Sunday each month; 2pm Readings at the Eaglemont Bookshop 525 Brunswick
St North Fitzroy. These readings apparently have been a little irregular
over recent months so contact Shelton Lea ph (03) 4863219 to confirm.
11 October 8pm Black Pepper Authors at Mietta's 7 Alfred Place Melbourne.
Black Pepper, a new and exciting press, presents a reading by its 1995
authors: John Anderson, Susan Hancock, Graham Henderson, Nicholas Playford
and K F Pearson. $10/$6. Details and bookings ph (03) 9654 2366 fax (03)
9654 2317.
22 October 5pm Victorian Premier's Literary Awards Winners Readings in the
Lounge at Mietta's 7 Alfred Place Melbourne. $15. Details and bookings ph
(03) 9654 2366 fax (03) 9654 2317.
October 13 -15 Dookie Agricultural College Residential Writers' Camp
Number 7. Feel like a spring holiday in the country? Need some
stimulation, some instruction, some time to write? Here's an opportunity to
stretch your legs and your mind. Join 70 to 100 others in a glorious
setting for two and half days of workshops with 8 of Australia's best
writers: Glenda Adams (NSW) novel (this class is full), Chris Mansell (NSW)
poetry,, Kim Scott (WA) Fiction, Peter Rose (Vic) poetry, Kerry Greenwood
(Vic) crime, historical fiction, research, Meredith Costain (Vic) children,
Tony Watts (Vic) stage & screen and Antoni Jach (Vic) fiction. Each class
is limited to 12 people and are run as 2 45 minute workshops. There is also
plenty of time to mingle and meet other people who share your interest,
from new to published writers. Cost $175 ($160 conc) covers accommodation,
meals and workshops. Details ph Kristin Henry (03) 95317331 or Sherryl
Clarke (03) 93141082
1995 MELBOURNE WRITERS' FESTIVAL October 16 to 22
1995 will see the ninth annual Melbourne Writers' Festival - an
extraordinary celebration of books, writing, literature and contemporary
issues. Last year, close to 20,000 readers and book buyers mingled with
over 100 Australian and international writers in a series of interviews,
panel discussions, debates and readings. This October will undoubtedly see
an even greater explosion of frenzied literary Activity. The Melbourne
Writers' Festival presents 7 days of literary activities designed to
showcase the art and talent of the writer and to enhance the pleasure of
the reader. This year's overseas guests include: Peter Ackroyd, John
Berendt, Shobna De, Lauris Edmond, Gunnar Harding, Jack Hodgins, Carsten
Jensen, Ryszard Kapuscinski, Sara Maitland, Brian Moore, Joseph O'Connor,
Frank Ronan, Danton Remoto, Ruth Rendell, Theo Richmond, Tom Robbins and
Bjorg Vik. Australian literature will be well represented by Paul Davies,
David Malouf, Frank Moorhouse, Helen Garner, Elizabeth Jolley, Jack
Hibberd, Susan Varga, Henry Reynolds, Chris Wallace-Crabbe, Robert G
Barnett, Kate Grenville, Jim Davidson, David Brooks, Philip Hodgins, Graham
Little, John Romeril, Amanda Lohrey, Alex Castles and Andrew McGahan
amongst many, many other. There will be writers in conversation, on panels
and in forums. There will also be the chance to hear in depth interviews
with individual writers and to listen to a wide and varied program of
readings. The festival will feature a special tribute to Elizabeth Jolley,
as well as a special event for school age readers and a host of exciting
umbrella events. Subjects covered by panels at the festival range from the
creative moment to the internet, from the turn of the millennium to the
killing of history and from reading to travel. Other subjects, such as
decadence, crime writing, ethics and writing about film are also covered in
the program.
For further details contact Julie Morgan ph (03) 9696 5060, fax (03) 9696 5866.
WESTERN AUSTRALIA
DISK READINGS are held on the Third Tuesday of each month at Pockets
Cocktail Lounge 44 Lark Street Northbridge. The October reading will be a
special 10th Anniversary reading and will feature Philip Salom, Marion
Campbell, Fay Zwicky, Kim Scott, Penelope Brown and Ross Bennett. Admission
is free. Details Mike Shuttleworth ph. (09) 4304991.
** ** **
The Katherine Susannah Prichard Writer's Centre, at 11 Old York Rd
Greenmount, is perched on the side of the Darling Range, looking towards
the towers of Perth and the setting sun. It is surrounded by National Park
and the developing suburbs of the Hills district. The place is small and
friendly and the kettle is nearly always on the boil.
The Centre holds readings on the first Sunday of the month at 7.30pm. Three
invited readers are featured. Cost is $5/$4 and includes light
refreshments. Faye Davis is currently writer-in-community working on a
project called 'Writing in the Hills' Changes'. She is running moderately
priced ($3.50 a session) workshops in the district, and is available for
consultation at the house by appointment. (this project is supported by the
Australia Council).
The house itself, former home of Katherine Susannah Prichard, is heritage
listed and tours cost $5. Wednesday and Sunday are tour days. Ring first to
book. A small writer's studio, once used by Katherine, is now used by
writers-in-residence. The KSP Foundation, the Centre's management body, is
currently investigating the possibility of letting the Studio on a short
term basis to writers from the city, country and/or interstate.
Ring Rob Finlayson, the co-ordinator, on Thursdays, between 10.30am and
5.30pm (09) 294 1872., to chat about writing and writers, and to find out
what's happening in the Hills of Perth and the sunburnt city at their feet.
At other times ring the Chairperson, Rose van Scon (09) 293 3863.
********************************************************************************
TASMANIA
Wednesday 4 October there'll be a Tasmanian Writers' Union (TWU) reading at
the Bavarian Tavern 28 Liverpool Street Hobart at 7.30 pm. featuring
readers from the Tasmanian Poetry Festival: Matt Simpson (U.K.), Jenny
Boult (Tas), Rudi Krausmann (NSW), Anthony Lawrence and Chris Mansell
(NSW). Cost $8/$5 conc. Details phone TWU (002) 240029.
Thursday 5 October, 5.30pm. Joint Reading/Book launch. Anthony Lawrence
Cold Wires of Rain (Penguin) & Rudi Krausmann Made in Australia (an
anthology of 80 Australian poets with German translations). At Hobart
Bookshop 29 Criterion Street Hobart. Details ph (002) 349654.
Wednesday 25 October 6pm. The Tasmanian Writers Union, Hobart Bookshop and
Harper Collins publishers invite you to hear Jenna Mead launch Amanda
Lohrey's new novel Camille's Bread. At the Hobart Bookshop, Criterion
Street Hobart. Details ph (002) 349654.
Rosny College in association with the Tasmanian writers union resents a
reading by writers workshop students on Thursday 5 October at 7pm at the
Salamanders' Food Fair and Cafe. 55 Salamanca Place Hobart. Details ph
Christine Bostock on (002) 449242.
Doris Leadbetter will be TWU Writer in Residence during October. She will
be working with mature women especially in rural and isolated communities.
She will be at the Tasmanian Poetry Festival from 29 September to 1
October. Then: 2 - 10 October Northwest coast, 11 - 15 October East coast,
17 - 22 October Flinders Island and 23 - 31 October Hobart, Cygnet and
Huon. There will also be a Sunday lunch for women with her at the Bellerive
Community Arts Centre on 29 October $15 includes drinks. For details on the
lunch contact Marjorie Luck or Fiona Cooke at TWU (002) 240029. For details
on the rest of Doris' tour contact Marjorie (ph 002 442 592 wk or 002
344384 home) or Glynis Donnelly (ph 004 245497).
The Tasmanian Poetry Festival takes place at Launceston from 29th September
to 1st October Readers include Matt Simpson (UK), John Harding, Chris
Mansell, Dennis Kevans, JS Harry, Dipti Saravanamuttu, June Perjins,
Marilyn Arnold, Jenny Boult, Bruce Penn and Tim Thorne. Also open readings,
young writers' reading, bookstall and the famous Launceston Poetry Cup -
Australia's oldest and most prestigious performance poetry competition - on
Saturday night 30 September at the Launceston Novotel. Further information
from the director, Tim Thorne, on (003) 319658 (phone/fax) or from PO Box
345 Launceston Tas. 7250.
*** end of part 1 ***
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 12:12:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: AWOL: October Happenings (Part 2 Conferences)
*** Part 2 begins ***
COMPETITIONS
6 OCTOBER SHIRE OF MITCHELL SHORT STORY COMPETITION
This competition offers prizes in open, teenage and junior categories.
Details contact library staff ph (057) 92 1861 0r (057) 843357.
16 OCTOBER HQ/DYMOCKS SHORT STORY CONTEST
A contest for unpublished writers, for a story less than 3,500 words that
has never been published. First prize of $5,000 plus publication in HQ
magazine. 6 runners up will receive a $50 Dymocks book token and a fountain
pen. Entry forms in Sept/October issue of HQ. Details ph Sarah Burns (02)
282 8267.
20 OCTOBER: MELBOURNE POETS NATIONAL POETRY COMPETITION
Prizes to the value of $500. Judged by Judith Rodriguez. $3.00 entry fee.
Entries to 'The Melbourne Poets National Poetry Competition', c/ Martin
French, 1/16 Kent Road, Surrey Hills, Victoria 3127. Poems should be
previously unpublished, they can be on any theme, they should be typed, no
longer than 20 lines and should be accompanied by a cheque or money order
of $3 per poem. There is no limit to the number of entries any individual
can make. Each poem should be accompanied by an entry form (contact
organisers). The poet's name should not appear on the page with the poem.
For further details contact Melbourne Poets at the above address.
27 OCTOBER: THE 1996 MARTEN BEQUEST TRAVELLING SCHOLARSHIPS.
Entries are now being accepted for a travelling scholarship valued at
$15,000 to be awarded in each of the following fields: acting, instrumental
music, painting, poetry, prose and singing. All applicants must have been
born in Australia, be between 21 and 35 at the time of application. Entry
forms available from Aimee Said, Arts Management, 180 Goulburn Street,
Darlinghurst NSW 2010 ph (02) 283 2066.
30 OCTOBER ULITARRA SHORT STORY COMPETITION.
For details on this competition contact Ulitarra magazine at PO Box 392
French's Forest NSW 2086.
********************************************************************************
CONFERENCES
EUROPEAN ASSOCIATION FOR STUDIES ON AUSTRALIA
Third conference: Copenhagen, October 6-9, 1995
Conference theme: Inhabiting Australia: The Australian Habitat and
Australian Settlement.
The conference aims to bring together contributions from a wide range of
disciplines, from architecture to zoology. Papers which take up the theme
from cultural, historical, social, scientific, literary and other
perspectives are invited.
Further information available from
* Bruce Clunies Ross (45) 35 32 85 82
internet: bcross@engelsk.ku.dk
* Martin Leer (45) 35 32 85 87
internet: leer@engelsk.ku.dk
* Merete Borch (45) 35 32 85 84
internet: borch@engelsk.ku.dk
Copenhagen University, Department of English Njalsgade 80, DK-2300 Kobenhavn S
Phone. (45) 35 32 86 00
Fax (45) 35 32 86 15
AUSTRALIAN WOMEN WRITERS: A SEMINAR
The State Library of NSW, Metcalfe Auditorium Saturday October 7 1995.
Sessions include: Introduction by Professor Elizabeth Webby, 'Rooms and
Money of their own: Journalism in the Careers of some women artists and
writers by A/Professor Susan Sheridan, 'The government stroke - Another
look at the Miles Franklin Award' by A/Professor Jill Roe, 'Collaborative
Writing: Dymphna Cusack, Miles Franklin and Florence James' by Debra
Adelaide and 'The difficulty of getting published' a panel discussion
featuring Ruby Lanford Ginibi, Amy Witting, Valerie and Kate Grenville.
Admission $30 (members of the Library Society), $35 (non members), $10
(full time students). Prepayment is essential. Details ph (02) 230 1500.
SYMPOSIUM: (POST) COLONIAL FICTIONS: RE-READING ELIZA FRASER AND THE WRECK
OF THE STIRLING CASTLE.
University of Adelaide, 25-26 Nov., 1995.
Contact: Kay Schaffer, Department of Women's Studies, 08 303 5267 direct,
08 303 3345 FAX, e-mail: kschaffe@arts.adelaide.edu.au
Post-colonial studies within Australia have attempted to re-evaluate and
re- write colonial history to include those people either marginalised or
subjugated by the colonial process. This two day symposium will explore a
different aspect of post-colonial discourse through the exploration of one
of the best known events in Australian colonial history. In 1836 the
'Stirling Castle' was wrecked off the Queensland coast and many of the crew
together with the Captain's wife, Eliza, were marooned on Fraser Island.
Events surrounding the rescue of the castaways, in particular Mrs. Fraser,
received international media attention. In the last 160 years the story of
Eliza Fraser has become the subject of popular myth, fiction, opera, art,
film and scholarly research in the areas of cultural studies, literature,
history, anthropology, archaeology, women's studies, and the visual arts.
(Post) Colonial Fictions will examine critically the Eliza Fraser saga by
bringing together, for the first time, an interdisciplinary team of
academics, authors, artists and members of the Fraser Island community.
Discussions will include feminist analyses of the incident, textual and
iconographic representations of Aboriginal people, and Eliza Fraser as a
creative inspiration for the arts.
Speakers on 19th century ethnography, visual arts, and Fraser Island
history include: Ian Mc Niven, Lynette Russell, Rod McNeil, Olga Miller,
Elaine Brown; on 20th century cultural studies and Batdjala representations
include: Kay Schaffer, Sue Kossew, Jim Davidson, Jude Adams and Fiona
Foley. We are hopeful that the symposium will include an exhibition of
Fiona Foley's works and a performance by University of Adelaide
Conservatorium of Music students of the theatre opera: "Eliza Fraser Sings"
(arranged by Peter Sculthorpe/libretto by Barbara Blackman).
AUSTRALIAN STUDIES AND THE SHRINKING PERIPHERY: SURFING THE NET FOR AUSTRALIA.
The Centre for Australian Studies in Wales, University of Wales, Lampeter,
are hosting this conference next year. Organisers are calling for papers.
"In recent years the consolidation of Europe into the 15 states of the EU,
the integration of east and west within Europe, and the progressive turning
of Australia to its own Pacific backyard have furthered the impression of
periphery: one world's edge looking distantly at the other."
The contacts are:
Dr Graham Sumner and Dr Andrew Hassam
Centre for Australian Studies in Wales
University of Wales
Lampeter
Dyfed, SA48 7ED,
Wales, UK.
Telephone: Graham Sumner +44 (0) 1570 424760 or 424790 (secretary) Fax:
+44 (0) 1570 424714
Andrew Hassam +44 (0) 1570 424764 (secretary) Fax +44 (0) 1570 423634
E-mail: sumner@lamp.ac.uk or alh@www.lamp.ac.uk
Offers of papers should reach the organisers by 31 December 1995, and
comprise a full title and an abstract of no more than 100 words.
Further information will be sent when available, and will appear on the
Centre's WWW home-page (htp://www.lamp.ac.uk/oz).
INTERNATIONAL P.E.N. 62nd WORLD CONGRESS
26 October - 1 November, 1995 at the Esplanade Hotel, Fremantle, W.A.
This Congress will be one of the most important literary and cultural
events ever staged in Australia. The Congress will seek to explore the
issue of freedom of speech in relation to different cultural contexts. It
will also include literary readings, discussions and performances of
Aboriginal culture, an International Quiz Night, a Hypothetical and many
events designed to be fun!
Speakers will include Ronald Harwood (England), Goenawan Mohamad
(Indonesia), Keki Daruwalla (India), George Aditjondro (Indonesia),
Satendra Nandan (Australia-Fiji), Samina Yasmeen (Australia-Pakistan), Beth
Yahp (Australia-Malaysia), Andrey Voznesensky (Russia), Ilsa Sharp
(Australia-Singapore), Sally Morgan and Jill Milroy, Elizabeth Jolley,
Judith Rodriguez, Tom Shapcott, and many more.
The Congress is open to anyone interested in literature and culture, and in
the issue of Freedom of Speech. For the full program and other details,
please contact Promaco Conventions, Ph. 09. 364.8311, Fax 09.316.1453; or
your local PEN Centre, or the Perth PEN Centre, PO. Box 1131 Subiaco,
Australia 6008, Ph. & Fax: 09.381.8306. Expressions of interest in
membership of PEN are also warmly welcomed, and should be addressed to the
PEN Centre. PEN works for freedom of speech and on behalf of writers in
prison.
THE WHOLE VOICE
2nd National Conference on Poetry, 3-5 November 1995 University of Sydney
The Whole Voice Poetry Conference aims to bring together those with an
active interest in and involvement with poetry in Australia. The conference
is a national one and is a follow-up to "The Space of Poetry" conference
held at Melbourne University in 1993. It is being jointly organised by the
University of Sydney and the Poets' Union.
The 1995 conference will include poetry readings and papers from poets,
editors, academics and publishers. Poets reading include Judith Beveridge,
Laurie Duggan, Susan Hampton, J.S. Harry, Jill Jones, Donna McSkimming, Jan
Owen, Geoff Page, Margaret Scott, Andrew Taylor, and Richard Tipping.
Paper-givers include Peter Steele, Susan Hawthorne, Rosemary Huisman,
Christopher Kelen, Jeri Kroll, Martin Langford, and Max Richards. Richard
Allen and Karen Pearlman will present a performance of dance and poetry on
Friday evening and Richard Tipping, will co-ordinate a display of visual
poetry. These two events will present other views of the idea of "voice" in
poetry. There will also be time for open readings and discussion.
"The Whole Voice" theme was glossed as : "a poetry that speaks as fully as
possible, that allows the repressed to speak, that doesn't reject or
diminish emotion, intellect or craft." The organisers expect this position
to generate debate and creative argument, as the idea of "voice" is
contentious. "The practising writer's idea of voice is an intimate friend,"
comments a poet. "Voice is a literary construction, with all the historical
contingency which that implies," writes an academic. The very understanding
of "voice" is basic to dialogue between all participants.
Date: 3rd to 5th November 1995
Venue: Woolley Building, University of Sydney
Cost: Early Registration (by 22Sept): $80; Full Registration $90
(Student/Unwaged: $45). Day Full Registration ($50, Day Student $25).
Registration includes Friday evening reception, am and pm teas, Sunday
morning coffee.
Contact:
Rosemary Huisman, Dept English A20, Uni of Sydney NSW 2006. Ph: (02) 351
2821. Fax: (02) 351 2434. e-mail: Rosemary.Huisman@english.su.edu.au.
Jill Jones. Ph: (02) 818 5349. e-mail: jillj@ozemail.com.au
Martin Langford. Ph: (02) 482 7110
THE IRISH CENTRE FOR AUSTRALIAN STUDIES: AUSTRALIAN STUDIES CONFERENCE
The Irish Centre for Australian Studies will be holding an Australian
Studies Conference in Dublin from 3-6 July 1996. The three major streams
will be history, culture and the environment. For further details contact
David Day Professor of Australian History Department of Modern History
University College Dublin Ireland.
********************************************************************************
While AWOL makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of Happenings listing
we suggest you confirm dates, times and venue.
AWOL would like to thank the following organisation who provided
information for this list:
NSW Writers Centre, Queensland Writers Centre, Tasmanian Writers' Union,
AusLit discussion group (internet), FAW WWW LINK
(http://www.ozemail.com.au:80/~faw/) and the other individuals and
organisations who supplied information about their events directly to AWOL.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 20:35:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
>Jorge wrote:
>Thank you, Mark, for bringing this [bland abstract lyrics] up.
>Since I would very much like to learn from the old avant guardists
>I would need some ***concrete*** examples of bland abstract lyrics so as
>to avoid them and of nonbland nonabstract lyrics so as to emulate them.
From what has been said here, this might apply to the renga
But it's not clear that they would be seen as bland or nonbland.
Another curious non-occurance is that on a POETICS list there has
been little or no comment on the poetics and process of the
renga.>On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Mark Wallace wrote:
>> Ron Silliman's side comment, a few days ago, that "bland
>>abstract yrics" are now the dominant strain of avant garde writing
>>.... The silence attending his remark...is disturbing. Do the
>>younger avant garde writers on this list accept Ron's
>>characterization?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:53:23 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Donald Davie
Nice to hear all the words about Donald Davie. He was, when I was an
undergraduate at Stanford (mid-70's), the most influential teacher I had. I
generally found him warm and kind, rather than difficult and
self-destructive, although I agree with Marjorie that it seemed as if he
became more difficult later. He taught me to hear poetry in a way no one had
(nor has since), as he had an ear which could encompass the music of Pound
and that of Tennyson (at his best, in some poems in the middle of In
Memoriam). He gave me an abiding love of the works and spirit of Christopher
Smart. Those may sound to some here like small gifts, but they weren't,
because they were, in part, a permission to hear and think
idiosyncratically, and with mind, ear, and heart. He also was the first to
lead me to read Edward Dorn, who in turn led me to Duncan, Olson, and
Creeley, and indirectly to much of my work since. I rather think he didn't
approve of places I eventually got to in reading and writing, but I know
that in a way he helped me get there. He certainly had his blind spots, and
some found him arrogant, but mostly I found him challenging in a rather fine
way. He gave quite a lot of himself to students who were curious.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 23:11:14 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: newpoets
My new neighbor Jeff Hansen (next town over) correctly puts up against Ron
Silliman's "bland abstract lyric" charge poets such as Juliana Spahr and
others. I might add Gary Sullivan, Myung Mi Kim, and more. But Jeff also
seems to pit, against "bland abstract lyric," "the wild blue yonder school
of poetic innovation." While I don't share the implicit distrust of "the
new" which Jeff manifests here, I also like to think that there's lots of
room for liveliness within forms and practices which have been around awhile
or which may be rather quietly innovative and which may not quite merit
"wild blue yonder" status. Is bland vs. wild blue really the dichotomy we
see? Aren't there lots of other choices? Doesn't ear still count for a lot
in making even the most abstract lyrical work rise above blandness?
Nice to hear/read/see you here, Jeff.
charles
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:17:32 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Golding/Bernstein/APR
Last week, Alan Golding wrote:
Burt K. mentioned Hank's APR essay. I actually think APR has always been a bit
more eclectic than it's given credit for, but its eclecticism has less the
quality of a commitment to multiple writing practices, more the quality of the
startled twitch that one gives when one is suddenly woken up. ("Oops, looks
like we'd better pay attention to this, even if we are 15 or 20 years late.")
To put this another way, it's not yet clear to me that we're seeing, in APR,
more than a kind of belated tokenism attached to one of the big names of LP.
Charles is acutely attuned to these institutional/literary-sociological
issues, it seems to me. I don't agree, then, Burt, that APR has published work
of his in a traditionally APR mode. The poems they've carried are, in my
reading, progressively more blatant gestures of resistance to and satires on
that mode. If the editors don't get it after publishing the last one,
"Memories," then I feel sorry for them. (And if they've already gotten it and
aren't letting on, then good for them.) The real test for APR will be to see
if they start publishing lesser-known or under-published "experimental"
writers, as they do with their flush-left-first-persons.
--AG doesn't mention that a chapter in his book _From Outlaw
to Classic_ (U of Wisconsin, 1995), deals with this very subject
in some depth--Bernstein, APR, and the subversive nature of his
appearances there. (Chapter 5, "Provisionally complicit
resistance"). Good stuff--
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 21:33:32 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: things & stuff
In-Reply-To: <199509280401.VAA25574@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
1) As an old and still/continually emerging poet, I wonder at this
tendency to equate -- new=emerging=young
I know for a fact that I am not the only old poet writing new poems that
are in no books -- similarly, I know many young poets writing old
poems,,, and new poets who don't emerge at all --
but I'm always willing to listen to good old fashioned intergenerational
grousing -- it stirs my soul
Hey Mark -- you can be in my generation if I can be in yours
2) Many years ago I asked Donald Davie to autograph a book of his poems
for me (the one about the Shires) -- As he wrote his name, he said, "This
is very generous of you."
3) I read Jay Wright -- so does Carole Doreski -- & I'd bet there are
others of us on the list -- assume you know Vera Kutzinski's book
_Against the American Grain_ -- look it up if you haven't already seen it
-- she looks at Williams, Wright and Guillen -- (to my mind she makes
Guillen more interesting than his poems -- that's N. Guillen, not J.
Guillen) -- Special issue of _Callalloo some years back had lots of good
Wright stuff in it.
4)
The distorted conception of the clam
A concentrated scene of panic
Then calm as the sea slips
Out of the poem and sand
Clumps together at line's end
(banal abstract lyric)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 21:43:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: jay wright
Jordan Davis asked:
>Anybody read Jay Wright?
>
and this isn't much of an answer: kind of in the: read him? I haven't even
taught him yet! vein. That is: I've taught Wright's poetry a few times at
the undergrad level, but don't feel I have a very adept sense of what he
does, though I know the Kutzinski stuff on him which I think is good. It's
interesting, I think, to speculate on why Bloom and Hollander are such big
champions of his work--some of the later stuff is ahem "visionary" ahem but
lacks the tonal mobility and fugitive irony I'd associate w the work of a
lot of the poets on this list.
Alan (Godling?) are you out there today? You probably read and teach
Wright, no?
Tenney
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 02:31:21 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: B=A=N=A=L vs. metabolic acidosis
Caterwauling is the conclusion that the answer could've continued carrying on
about, and so, just remeber (as Nickolas K. Piombino once said): "The writing
on the wall is off the wall."
I used to be banal but I gave it up for MindScience(TM)-- the petals of the
wheels branching out into the whole *nervous * system--
Mark, silence cld also be taken as tacet disagreement.
So the guy says to the bartender he says he says look, it
seems to me the "banal-phenomenon" (soon to enter the O.E.D.)
cld be explained by the increasingly multiplicitous influences younger
writers are availing themselves in (of). Yes, not so younger writers did that
& do that, but the social circumstances were quite different. We have l.p. &
New american influences increasingly entering a workshop environment -- what
gets cranked out the other end cld often be characterized as "banal" --
however the best of them just ain't. Liz Willis' new book is good, very, many
are trying to hit registers she succeeds in hitting. & if she's too
somethingorother for your taste take a look at what I think is the best new
mag in quite awhile, _Proliferation_, shows there are some *extremely* smart
cookies (& muffins) just getting started, however the economic situation
they're confronting works against them, big time. Do you know Rodrigo
Toscano's work, Ron? Not too much out there yet but he has one Sun & Moon
book coming & I've seen ms. of another. Someone working convincingly at
energetic length.
I've often wondered if the serial poem is the defining poetic of the late 80s
early 90s, more than the lyric. May have to do with publishing opportunities.
"Well, I can afford a
chapbook. . ."
The failure of intellect might well be ours. Does a computer not also have a
mind? Don't you think the spectator's role is important? What about all these
gluey wind-up 'limitless & unbounded' afterimages on my check stubs? Baffled
about sporadic clucking? It goes in one eye and out the other.
send DMT but not C.O.D.,
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:40:00 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Sheila, Chris & Jorge's Excellent Adventure
>R! = C!S!J! = (X - >>>>) where X is a variable ranging from excellent to
>outasight
>
> "books were closed, dreams were cancelled, the inverted
>poplar was set
> right, the cardinal was killed"
>
> St.John Terse, "Ananas"
>
>
>ripe for macroscopes to pump or slice or butterfly away
from that ardent bugged heliotrope and pledge allegiance through
ostension--we stopped short of the shortstop stigmata
this time pencilled in as tangly wisps instead of memory
detonations: but don't forget to dismember the doloroso
I left in the rain by mistake whilst on business vocation
hollering newmown platitudes to headsets painted blue and waffle colored
earth colored fire colored i have this thing against water colored
therefore elemental-painted playthings cost a dear shined copper looking
for false grit and the dogma of autonomous syntax overwhelmed them
when striking from base-camp their paraffin tongues in the cauldron
of sylvia's morning during the time that ted was devising a way to
narrate implied memory for newly-learned novel objects
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:04:11 GMT0BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Larkin <LYAAZ@LIBRIS.LIB.WARWICK.AC.UK>
Organization: UNIVERSITY OF WARWICK LIBRARY
Subject: David Jones
I was delighted to see the topic of David Jones crop up as
I've been spending a lot of this year (his centenary) thinking about
him. A couple of weeks ago Alan Halsey (of the Poetry bookshop Hay on
Wye) and I gave a joint paper on Jones as illustrator of The Ancient
Mariner and we could see the impact Jones was making on an audience
relatively unfamiliar with him. Members of this list might like to
know that a collection of essays based on a conference held here at
Warwick last April (I was one of the contributors) is due out
sometime next year, edited by Paul Hills. There was also a conference
at Lampeter last weekend, to which I didn't go, but something might
well emerge from that. Seren Books have two new books on DJ due, and
two exhibitions (one in London, one touring) will be opening in a
matter of weeks. I can supply further details to anyone who
might be interested.
It's a good time just now to be interested in DJ and
he seems no longer the property of a narrow circle of admirers. And
at a time when the poetics and politics of "innovation" seem to be
faltering it may be timely to look again at some of his diagnoses of
the predicament of modern culture. What are the parts (which must be
kept from going sour) to which revision as a solo mission doesn't
reach? If he failed to appreciate, or greatly mourned that culture has
to be about forgetting, he teaches us how to recognise the fragments
that work up through that process in unfamiliar patterns which
reoriginate attachment.
Peter Larkin Philosophy & Literature Librarian
University of Warwick Library,Coventry CV4 7AL UK
Tel:01203 524475 Fax: 01203 524211
Email: Lyaaz@Libris.Lib.Warwick.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 06:37:50 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: MILLENNIUM TABLE OF CONTENT
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950927194359.16872c-100000@osf1.gmu.edu> from
"SUSAN E. TICHY" at Sep 27, 95 07:46:06 pm
Susan writes:
>
> I too am thrilled by the selection, by the project itself. But where, o
> where, is Mina Loy? My soul deflated considerably when I paged in vain
> through all the galleries... are her poems to remain as fugitive as her
> bowery constructions?
>
Look again: Mina Loy is in the first Gallery with a 5-page selection.
In the book that's pages 136-140
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:41:04 +0900
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark McMorris <Mark_McMorris@POSTOFFICE.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics
Yet another act of delurking (=lug rude kin):
1) Bland of course is in the eye of the beholder, but I suppose one means
poetry that is monotonous, unmodulated *and* unaccented, clever rather than
perceptive, perceptive rather than selective, meandering rather than
directed, vague, hubristic, histrionic, picture-postcard dull--in short,
metrically and procedurally commonplace. A few queries: is the abstract
bland? Can there be a non-bland abstract (there can be a non-abstract
bland, as we know)? By abstract are we to understand a bad case of
conceptual manipulation a la late Stevens (without his ear or eye--or
brain, for that matter)? Is The Triumph of Life bland? Abstract? (Yes on
both?) Is Stein's Tender Buttons abstract (I assume it's not bland)? Is
Cesaire's Ferraments abstract? (No) Is it conceptual? (Yes) Lisible? (no)
Scriptible? (yes) Moving?
2) I know that procedural ingenuity or formal obliquity has produced most
of the interesting (to me) poetry in the US in the last 50 years, but if I
am to make any sense at all, I must also say that the very same poets who
opened up and kept open the still lively and living (a pesky romantic
metaphor) forms of poetry around today themselves could be world-class
bores. Being dull seems to be an occupational hazard of innovative
writers--am I quoting here?--who venture into areas to invent them and on
happy occasions (e.g, A-12, Prelude) are able release poetry, on other
occasions (e.g., A-12, Prelude) fail miserably to make anything happen that
hasn't already happened elsewhere to greater effect (in conversations with
Celia or Paul, for instance, to which I am not privy). Who can read
Paterson through without a shudder of dismay? Williams and Zukofsky were
onto something that became important for US poetry in the years after them
and one might well tolerate the bland in "A" in order to arrive at the
sense of design in small matters as well as in large that Zukofsky
undoubtedly (to me) managed to build in. What does this have to do with
poets writing now? I suppose I'm trying sneakily to suggest that in a
survey of any today one must expect a certain amount of the bland, but that
it would be very unlikely if the Americas in 1995 were uniformly anything,
let alone bland. Let's say that an attention to syntax and
decontextualized, rigorously anti-mimetic linguistic subversion/resistance
characterized the underground now overground practice of the recent US
avant-garde. Younger poets writing now, some say the emerging poets, would
I think both profit from this massive exploration of poetry as
unwarrantable language given a welcome charge of distinct audibility, and
want to refuse it in specific ways and parts, just as a reader might wish
Zukofsky had cut some of the beginning of A-12 for poetry's sake (I hope
that expressing such a wish in order to make a point does not mark me as
narrow-minded or condescending--I admire Z and find his poetics both
meaningful to my efforts and succinctly comprehensive). Such a refusal
might well produce boring poetry if it takes place in a vacuum of further
ideas, but imitating somebody else's practice certainly would (and does)
produce boredom all round.
It also seems to me that bland lyrics is a fairly good description of the
bulk of poetry of any period (including American poetry since the war).
3) By concealing artifice, Williams' respected example has helped to excuse
the general neglect of rhythmic design--in the phrase, line, paragraph, and
work--in contemporary American avant-garde poetry (but see At Passages, et
al.), and therefore, together with Moore and Pound, can be blamed for the
later standardization of voice at the expense of arrangement, perception at
the expense of rhythm, which absolutely guarantees bland poetry. Recent
comments against Williams on this list seem to want to shoot the messenger
of an American voice--one seemingly without art--now that Williams has been
so clearly exposed as the "thoughtless" message in much contemporary
writing. This is unfair. Taking a different direction, I would say that the
fault lies not with the doctor but with the glut of words masquerading as
idea in the discourse on poetry and on literature generally, or with the
loss of -- an energizing loss, looked at in a certain way -- generic
boundaries. Does the word poetry name anything apart from a context of
presentaion? Tell me that the answer is YES. If I am a poet, I must suppose
that I am not writing a context of presentation but a poem. How can I know
that this is so? Circles make me dizzy. Here again, the doctor of Paterson
must take some of the responsibility for at once opening up a wider terrain
of poetry and, one might say, thinning it out and confusing the workers. I
could (as you could) write a list of fairly recent books that work
excellently from the former without succumbing to the latter, but still
areas in Paterson (or Maximus) usefully diagnose the disagreeable vague
monotony some object to in poetry today. The trick, I suppose, is to take
the good and to leave the bad and the ugly...
4) But then again, ... (following up on Gale's remarks) are there any
monoliths? states? who gets to count as the younger generation? I can never
shake the feeling that all talk of generations, schools, movements in the
US will remain premature because of the sheer size of the educated
population. And that maybe what one could call a systematic synechdochic
substitution complex--a few people for a whole continent--prompts me to
continue talking about (non-)entities like the state of contemporary poetry
in the US. Oh well.
Regards,
Mark McMorris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:12:26 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: Donald Davie
I guess the closest I came to Donald Davie was Alan Shapiro, who was
a colleague for some years; Davie claimed that before publishing any
poem he first showed it to someone who was older than he was and
someone who was younger, and that the younger person was Shapiro.
It seemed to me that Davie was following some sort of reactionary
spoor in the United States. He wrote admiringly of Yvor Winters, and
then went to Stanford; then he went to Vanderbilt where I suppose
there was still a lingering odor of the Fugitives, who in their
reincarnation as Agrarians were --well, let's say, as Jeffersonian as
Pound. Donald Davidson, and I mean Davidson, the Fugitive and the
Agrarian of the 1920s and 30s who went on living for decades--was
such a fascist that when admiring his poems one has that awful
feeling as if one were admiring Hitler's water colors. None of this
is applicable to Davie, of course, but his American wanderings had a
very odd pattern to them.
I was very put off by a piece that Davie wrote about Larkin some ten
years or so ago, in which he found fault with Larkin for not being a
romantic. It seemed to me it was like faulting Eeyore for not being
Winnie-the-Pooh.
Tom Kirby-Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:09:17 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "SUSAN E. TICHY" <stichy@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MILLENNIUM TABLE OF CONTENT
In-Reply-To: <199509281037.GAA27243@loki.hum.albany.edu>
On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Pierre Joris wrote:
> Susan writes:
> >
> > I too am thrilled by the selection, by the project itself. But where, o
> > where, is Mina Loy? My soul deflated considerably when I paged in vain
> > through all the galleries... are her poems to remain as fugitive as her
> > bowery constructions?
> >
>
> Look again: Mina Loy is in the first Gallery with a 5-page selection.
> In the book that's pages 136-140
>
> =======================================================================
> Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
> Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
> SUNY Albany |
> Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
> tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
> email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
> joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
> =======================================================================
>
I swear on my LL Baedeker never again to read e-mail late at night.
--Susan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:55:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Graham John Sharpe <gsharpe@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: millennium & David Jones
In-Reply-To: <199509280041.RAA14689@ferrari.sfu.ca> from "George Bowering" at
Sep 27, 95 03:52:12 pm
George Bowering wrote:
> Where is it a shock to see David Jones selected? Around here he has
> been for a long time considered along with Basil Bunting the main
> news from the UK.
>
Well George, normally whenever i mention david jones i get blank stares
back. or better yet bad jokes about The Monkees. and as Peter Larkin
mentioned it also seems to me that the critical circle around DJ is
growing rapidly - no longer restricted to Hague, Blissett, Dilworth, and
a few others - but that is a fairly new phenomenon.
I did try to get information about the Jones centenary last January on
the MODBRITS list, but i received nothing in reply. i am truly glad to
know there was a centenary celebration for DJ. And Peter, i would really
appreciate any info from the confrence you have, or even a few clues
about the upcomming publications.
i'm presently working on a paper on DJ for a course on MOdernist long
poems so am curious to see some new publications and some new approaches
to Jones. The most current work i've seen of late on DJ (i think) has
been Katherine Staudt (or something close to that) 's *At the turn of
Civilization*
maybe i'm a sucker for First World War Lit.
or maybe i know a good thing when i read it
wishing
well
graham
.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:43:26 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Larry Price <Lppl@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: the Wild Blue Yonder
Anyone who thinks that (Ron thinks that) Ketjak is the equivalent of the wild
blue yonder simply hasn't read Ketjak.
Anyone who thinks that Alan Davies' Shared Sentences is a lexical wild blue
yonder misses the point of form. (Now let's see: I have three toes, and red
and blue crayons do this when eaten and swallowed.)
It evidently is continually to be restated: We are not in relation to the
past. We are relation to the present, where (as Peter Larkin remarked
concerning David Jones) "culture has to be about forgetting [and then] to
recognize the fragments that work up through that process in unfamiliar
patterns which reoriginate attachment."
That is, group formation indexes itself through the ferocity of its erasures.
Its texts build back in that distancing within the "form" of the village,
setting loose a contingency that in the reading levels any implied authority
in terms such as "the new generation," "the old generation," "the new
sentence," "the old sentence," and particularly "the members of this list."
The remainder is paranoia.
Larry Price
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 17:03:24 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: MOO
tony,
does "techniqalities" without a "u" have any significance to the term?
burt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:50:36 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Albert Hall related
Hi. Ken's been posting about this event and I've even had e-mail from NY
describing my photo on the publicity which I myself have not seen yet. A
few choice observations:
- it would appear from the brief I got today that there is
considerable press and radio interest being generated by this event
- the bill is too beefcake for my liking, with only 3/4 women poets on
a bill of maybe 15 performers (I'm told others are being added) / and don't
forget the winner of the poetry competition advertised on the leaflet
(which I haven't seen as I said, heck I'm merely reporting this stuff) gets
to read their poems from the stage alongside us 'alumni'. Made me want to
just invite a mass simultaneous reading from the stalls by all the losers
as my contribution - until that is the recent discussion about bland
abstract lyrics got into action
- the promoter is going to spend somewhere close to =A330,000 of his ow=
n
money, and might well lose much of that
- there are two programmes melded together (one offered by Iain
Sinclair as himself, Denise Riley, Brian Catling, Kathy Acker, cris cheek
and Aaron Williamson / this part of the evening will be introduced by
Michael Moorcock (I know, I know, it's seriously weird) - the other being
that of the 'official' poetry programme with names as Ken identified plus
I'm told at least an attempt to include Anne Waldman and others /
introduced by that sixties free wheeling drug baron Howard Marks!)
- Penguin books are apparently going to produce a 'memorial' book of
the event and it's being filmed
- for those curious about such things, it's going to presented kind of
rock-multi-media style - clip mikes being de rigeur and a giant screen
projecting on-stage 'images' of the performers as filmed by three cameras
in the hall
- popcorn is not allowed in the building (despite which provision I've
agreed to take part), so eat outside
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 17:06:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: An especial danger to hard working poets (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
THE DREADED H.C.E. BRUINBLAST
>
> Babinski_Ed/furman@furman.edu writes:
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Oh great. This is JUST what I need to read!"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> > : >MOSCOW -
> > : >
> > : >Doctors are blaming a rare electrical embalance in the brain for the
> > : >bizarre death of a chess player whose head literally exploded in the
> > : >middle of a championship game!
> > : >
> > : >No one else was hurt in the fatal explosion but four players and three
> > : >officials at the Moscow Candidate Masters' Chess Championships were
> > : >sprayed with blood and brain matter when Nicolai Titov's head suddenly
> > : >blew apart. Experts say he suffered from a condition called
> > : >Hyper-Cerebral Electrosis or HCE.
> > : >
> > : >"He was in deep concentration with his eyes focussed on the board," says
> > : >Titov's opponent, Vladimir Dobrynin. "All of a sudden his hands flew to
> > : >his temples and he screamed in pain. Everyone looked up from their games,
> > : >startled by the noise. Then, as if someone had put a bomb in his cranium,
> > : >his head popped like a firecracker."
> > : >
> > : >Incredibly, Titov's is not the first case in which a person's head
> > : >spontaneously exploded. Five people are known to have died of HCE in the
> > : >last 25 years. The most recent death occurred just three years ago in
> > : >1991, when European psychic Barbara Nicole's skull burst. Miss Nicole's
> > : >story was reported by newspapers worldwide, including WWN. "HCE is an
> > : >extremely rare physical imbalance," said Dr. Anatoly Martinenko, famed
> > : >neurologist and expert on the human brain who did the autopsy on the
> > : >brilliant chess expert.
> > : >
> > : >"It is a condition in which the circuits of the brain become overloaded
> > : >by the body's own electricity. The explosions happen during periods of
> > : >intense mental activity when lots of current is surging through the
> > : >brain. Victims are highly intelligent people with great powers of
> > : >concentration. Both Miss Nicole and Mr. Titov were intense people who
> > : >tended to keep those cerebral circuits overloaded. In a way it could be
> > : >said they were literally too smart for their own good."
> > : >
> > : >Although Dr. Martinenko says there are probably many undiagnosed cases,
> > : >he hastens to add that very few people will die from HCE. "Most people
> > : >who have it will never know. At this point, medical science still doesn't
> > : >know much about HCE. And since fatalities are so rare it will probably be
> > : >years before research money becomes available."
> > : >
> > : >In the meantime, the doctor urges people to take it easy and not think
> > : >too hard for long periods of time. "Take frequesnt relaxation breaks when
> > : >you're doing things that take lots of mental focus," he recommends.
> > : >
> > : >HOW TO TELL IF YOUR HEAD'S ABOUT TO BLOW UP:
> > : >
> > : >Although HCE is very rare, it can kill. Dr. Martinenko says knowing you
> > : >have the condition can greatly improve your odds of surviving it. A "yes"
> > : >answer to any three of the following seven questions could mean you have
> > : >HCE:
> > : >
> > : >1. Does your head sometimes ache when you think too hard? (Head pain can
> > : >indicate overloaded brain circuits.)
> > : >
> > : >2. Do you ever hear a faint ringing or humming sound in your ears? (It
> > : >could be the sound of electricity in the skull cavity.)
> > : >
> > : >3. Do you sometimes find yourself unable to get a thought out of your
> > : >head? (This is a possible sign of too much electrical activity in the
> > : >cerebral cortex.)
> > : >
> > : >4. Do you spend more than five hours a day reading, balancing your
> > : >checkbook, or other thoughtful activity? (A common symptom of HCE is a
> > : >tendency to over-use the brain.)
> > : >
> > : >5. When you get angry or frustrated do you feel pressure in your temples?
> > : >(Friends of people who died of HCE say the victims often complained of
> > : >head pressure in times of strong emotion).
> > : >
> > : >6. Do you ever overeat on ice cream, doughnuts, and other sweets? (A
> > : >craving for sugar is typical of people with too much electrical pressure
> > : >in the cranium.)
> > : >
> > : >7. Do you tend to analyze yourself too much? (HCE sufferers are often
> > : >introspective, "over-thinking" their lives.)
> .-
>>>>>>8. Do you spend more than 4 hours a day trying to find new meanings
in " u.p.UP" or in "atoms and ifs"?>
mark the twy
--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:27:01 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: millennium & David Jones
In-Reply-To: <199509281655.QAA23792@fraser.sfu.ca> from "Graham John Sharpe"
at Sep 28, 95 09:55:47 am
I'm just an old admirer of Jones. My wife is an expert, has the
patience etc. I just pick up items when I travel. Including a second
hand enormous book of the complete drawings tipped in, which I paid
500 bucks for once. So I am not up on the latest. In fact the latest
thing I attended was a couple years ago, the wonderful Eric Gill show
at Univ. of Toronto, just down the street from Dilworth. Did you see
that 1979 item published in Victoria , B.C. by Sono Nis Press? I dont
know whether it was also done in a UK or US edition. It is Henry
Summerfield's _An Introductory Guide to the Anathemeta and the
Sleeping Lord_ Gives references for all the stuff, stuff fr the
Niocene Creed, etc.I was lucky, snaffted that for 4 bucks!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 16:20:46 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Shaunanne Tangney <st@SCS.UNR.EDU>
Subject: journals (fwd)
hello, again, all--
i am forwarding my own post, as it seems to have gotten lost in some kind
of cybershuffle!
--that is, i don't remember having seen it make it to the list--deep,
dark appologoes if i have doubble posted!
thanks in advance,
shaunanne
st@scs.unr.edu
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shaunanne Tangney <st@pogonip.scs.unr.edu>
To: POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: journals
hello,all--
i have a querry for you:
i have a very theoretical paper that i want very much to publish. it is
rather non-traditional (read: non-academic), slightly non-linear, and fuses
prose and poetry. it asks (answers?!) all those big questions like, what
is a writer? writing? poetry? a poet? i rely on cixous and derrida (as i
am wont to do!) but include frost, poirier, dickinson, plath, and woolf,
too. most of these are allusions; the paper is very much mine. it is a
position paper, i guess, and does not really consider pedagogical issues,
nor is it very empirical.
i am considering trying it at either _the american poetry review_ or
_critical texts: a review of theory and criticism_. my question to you
all is: does anyone know anything about these journals? are the
reffereed? do they have a wide/national circulation? a good reputation?
i am btw. that rock/hard place with this one, in that it is fairly
un-traditional, and yet as an academic, i need publications! i think it
is valuable paper--but i fear that more traditional journals are not
appropriate; but then again, i cannot go too far off the beaten path, and
satisfy the academy!
i thank you in advance for your input--backchannel me if you'd rather--
shaunanne
st@scs.unr.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:26:28 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flossy & WCWs army of ah whatever
no, rod, i'd still keep olson in "current" -- no one before him, few since, have been able to escape augustine's time (language/time), all linear. olson's "history" is still in the words, no critic's taken that from him yet. -ed
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:35:09 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: The News
i checked on the story, aldon, and can confirm it's true, tho the woman
who survived is being held by authorities; it seems the scrap of verse
included the letters wcw but was otherwise held to be indecent by
university professors who teach wcw and say they can't live without
him; he's the only poet students understand these days.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:45:46 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: you & an army of mixed metaphors and forgotten half-truths...
actually, steve, i like that new jersey accent, and it's almost gone. i
smashed an elbow a couple years ago, and the doctor who fixed it (in his
70s or 80s, i'd say, but did a fantastic job) sounded just like those
williams recordings. i asked him if he'd heard of wcw, and he said, oh,
ya, the guy that used to be at passaic" [i.e. passaic general]. i ran
into a older guy selling real estate with that accent, not long ago; and
the other day a friend and i heard in one of the old bars around here.
but like wcw's world generally, the accent's gone. -ed
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:44:22 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: qal
"friends of a tend"--Gale Nelson
"The remainder is paranoia"--Larry Price
- Thanks for the Jay Wright stuff.
- Not to make you do my research, but has anybody written on the
subject of arguments between poets? Excommunications? Splits? Weakenings
of ties? Anybody know any good stories?
Jordan Davis
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:15:04 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: bland abstract lyrics, or you've got wheat in your eye
HEY, HEY, HEY, GEORGE: careful there, some of my best poet friends are
very, very dead: Cavafy, for one; went all the way to Alexandria just
to find his grave and talk with him. in fact, odd though it must sound,
i have a few words with wcw every time i head east along route 3. but
he still sounds as if he were my grandfather or great-grandfather,
always giving advice.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:43:24 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: MOO
techniqalities with a q not really so darned significant as all that
only suggestive of "technical qualities" it's not worth worrying
over
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:34:32 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "SUSAN E. TICHY" <stichy@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flossy & WCWs army of ah whatever
In-Reply-To: <01HVTK1C6H8I8ZFBBL@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Edward Foster wrote:
> no, rod, i'd still keep olson in "current" -- no one before him, few since, have
> been able to escape augustine's time (language/time), all linear. olson's "hist
> ory" is still in the words, no critic's taken that from him yet. -ed
>
When I wrote a paper with this exact thesis, at UCBerkeley
20 years ago, my professor said "well-argued, but nonsense".
--Susan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:26:33 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Phillips Patrick <PRPhillips@AOL.COM>
Subject: New Address
I have lost my affiliation. Am no longer framed by a clear institution -
though I'm still not sure Brown was much more than a service. I now hail from
the megaplex - AOL - and pay for what once was free... Sorry to any if you
have responded to my recent post, but here's the new address -
PRPhillips@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:07:37 -0700
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: Poetry Wars
>"friends of a tend"--Gale Nelson
>
>"The remainder is paranoia"--Larry Price
>
>- Thanks for the Jay Wright stuff.
>
>- Not to make you do my research, but has anybody written on the
>subject of arguments between poets? Excommunications? Splits? Weakenings
>of ties? Anybody know any good stories?
>
>Jordan Davis
Jordan:
_Poetry Wars_ by Tom Clark dishes a lot of dirt. Can't remember what press
it's on, though, or if it's still in print.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:31:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: An especial danger to hard working poets (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9509281713.D539321396-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Jorge Guitart" at Sep 28, 95 05:06:45 pm
I first got that exploding head story or a variant from Australia
about 6 months ago, and then again from somewhere about a month ago.
When yr buying a second-hand computer, look carefully for bits of
brain and bone. A word to the wise.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:37:55 GMT0BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Larkin <LYAAZ@LIBRIS.LIB.WARWICK.AC.UK>
Organization: UNIVERSITY OF WARWICK LIBRARY
Subject: David Jones
As DJ seems to be stirring an interest (and thanks to Larry Price for
inserting him into the Wild Blue Yonder discussion) let me tell what
I know for anyone in or visiting the UK over the next few months.
Two exhibitions: DJ: a Map of the Artist's Mind
Glynn Vivian Gallery, Swansea 30 sept-12 Nov
Hove Museum, Hove, 19 Nov - 28 Jan
National Museum,Cardiff 17 Feb - 14 April
DJ: A Centenary Exhibition Wolsey Fine Arts, 12 Needham Rd,London
25 Oct - 25 Nov (catalogue already available)
Three new books:
DJ: Ten Letters Agenda Eds Feb 1996 (but priced at stlg70!)
DJ: a Fusilier at the Front ed. A.J.Hyne, Seren Sept 1995
DJ: the Maker Unmade, By J Miles & D.Shiel, Seren Nov 1995
Also not yet announced:
DJ: Artist and Writer ed Paul Hills , Avebury, Spring 1996
This will contain a new paper by Kathleen Henderson Staudt who has
written (I agree with Graham Sharpe on this) the best book on DJ to
date, "At the Turn of a Civilization", U of Michigan Press, 1993.Also
featured is a piece of Gallic esprit by Jacques Darras on the role of
somnolence in English culture.
One last general point: DJ is most visible as a WW1 poet (though a
controversial one, given his treatment of war as a recurrent human
predicament,to be rememorated as much as resisted(( for a recent
theoretical reading, see Evelyn Cobley "Representing War" U of
Toronto P, 1993)). More immediate to me, though, are parts of
The Anathemata and some of the fragments in The Sleeping Lord,
especially The Tutelar of the Place, a wonderful trenchant statement
of the poetics of attachment but entirely of the present (DJ believed
art can only be of "the Now"). See my paper "Tutelary Visitations" in
Paul Hills above.
Sorry for the Jonesian exactitude of all this.
Peter
Peter Larkin Philosophy & Literature Librarian
University of Warwick Library,Coventry CV4 7AL UK
Tel:01203 524475 Fax: 01203 524211
Email: Lyaaz@Libris.Lib.Warwick.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:25:34 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Navdeep Dhillon <nsd0@GTE.COM>
Subject: unsubscribe
__o
__o -\<,
-\<, ...........O/ O
................................0/ 0
Navdeep Dhillon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:04:28 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Keith Tuma <KWTUMA@MIAMIU.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Albert Hall related
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:50:36 +0000 from
<cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
cris and Ken:
Here's hoping you'll both post something in the way of a report on the Albert
Hall festivities after the "reforgotten" appear October 16.
For those who haven't seen the flyer, cris gets second prize for best picture,
after Brian Catling, who looks like a cross between a postmodern monk and that
guy from the original Adams Family--was it Fester?--sans light bulb in mouth.
What is that you're smokin' cris?
For those of us--me--who know little or nothing about them, who are these
"counter cultural heroes"--as the brochure describes the "presenters"--Michael
Moorcock and Howard Marks?
Hell, I thought the only poetry celebrities in England these days were the
New Gen folks. And not a one of them on the program.
The Blaserfest reports were entertaining and useful: great to have more of the
same in this case for those of us who can't get across the pond.
--Keith Tuma
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:31:42 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lisa Robertson <Lisa_Robertson@MINDLINK.BC.CA>
Subject: ssplits and weakenings
Dear Jordon,
Edith Sitwell cuttingly narrates the split between Lady Mary Wortley
Montagu and Alexander Pope in her biography of Pope.I'm not sure whether it
was in this book that I read that the final blow for Pope's and Lady
Mary's mutually generative partnership involved the return of borrowed
bed-sheets, unlaundered.
In any case, Sitwell's bio ought to be read for its curious, long, dense
lists which are among the least banal texts I have ever had the pleasure of
reading. (see chapter XI, Fashionable, Life for these)
sincerely,
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:17:36 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Mullen and more
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
Does anyone know of any commentary on Harryette Mullen's work--essays,
reviews, etc.--and esp., though not exclusively, on Trimmings? You can reach
me via my backchannel, provided you can get past the anal godling lodging in
my Poetic Briefs.
Since one or two threads of the WCW argument are still dangling, I thought to
mention a good essay Hank Lazer published a few years ago on different
readings of WCW among recent poets. (Hank, maybe you can post the ref.? I
don't have it to hand right now.) What's being debated, at the risk of stating
the obvious, is competing readings of WCW, not whether any given
characteristic is "really there" in his work. My memory is that Hank lays out
very well what different writers have recently found in WCW, and what
different texts they're drawn to in order to find what they need.
Tenney, I appreciate your faith in the breadth of my reading, but I pretty
much lost touch with Wright after The Double Invention of Komo, which I
believe was his first book. And after this bloody (in all senses) trial, I can
no longer read his line about "the broken field runner in the terminal"
without thinking of OJ and Hertz commercials.
Jordan: Chap. 4 of my book From Outlaw to Classic talks some about internal
differences/arguments within an embryonic poetic community in discussing the
first series of Cid Corman's Origin. This isn't the chapter's main focus, but
I do get into the issues somewhat. I agree that it's hard to find material
beyond the anecdotal (though that's always entertaining too).
anal godlodging
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:09:04 -0700
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ay sixes and sevens
In-Reply-To: <199509290358.UAA11977@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Ed-- Have you really taken to six liners now, or has some pirate
rengadeer secretly attached himself to your three-liners??
My students also understand Edwin Markham --
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:05:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: renga - the sequel
At 10:17 PM 9/22/95 -0500, Charles Alexander wrote:
>hobbyist quaffs juleps poured in the direction of the skids
>made by Chevettes sliding off the I5 south of Tacoma
>looking like a born-again, living like a heretic, listening
>to blues most simpering until the Camels dry away, stained fingertips
>on Cynthia's knees, prompting treasure taken forgiveness sighing
colored the image of the dancer brooding on the fence
the demon beneath falling sky is an appropriate image for an eleven-year-old
on the run from incendiary bombs at the edge of the city devoid of figures
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:07:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: spike it with saussure - begins the intramix...
At 09:30 AM 9/23/95 -0400, Jorge Guitart wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Sheila E. Murphy wrote:
>
> In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
> or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
> nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
> where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
> passacaglia without the prefab little knobbed things on them
> completely set on the sea as so much crabbiness
> diverts attention from wars in three voices and the steady rain of hemlock
> falling on the Concerns box & a sob distant as adventure capital
>behind the exterior of the city was an interior composed
of scar tissue recording the grain of farm house timbers
a rubble of history in the grass where a decapitated statue
unavoidably becomes an image of a nation without a true face
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:23:22 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: in dreams
In-Reply-To: <9509292007.AA00605@infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us>
> > In the books were dreams and in the dreams were books
> > of Palookaville & the dead heroes of Guadalajara
> > empowering scores of liberated mozos intent of Lacanian
> > libretti, salted with much, much more than roughage added to taste
> > or tremolo, finding the shores awash with alphabet, proclaiming nothing
> > nutting nothing a-merrily over my dead bodies in abandon
> > where wrote was written, stepping one four nine
> > passacaglia without the prefab little knobbed things on them
completely set on the sea as so much crabbiness
diverts attention from wars in three voices and the steady rain of hemlock
falling on the Concerns box & a sob distant as adventure capital
behind the exterior of the city was an interior composed
of scar tissue recording the grain of farm house timbers
a rubble of history in the grass where a decapitated statue
unavoidably becomes an image of a nation without a true face
a face to sell a magazine, a face to turn to the side
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:53:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry Wars
>- Not to make you do my research, but has anybody written on the
>subject of arguments between poets? Excommunications? Splits? Weakenings
>of ties? Anybody know any good stories?
>
>Jordan Davis
& Steve Carll replies:
_Poetry Wars_ by Tom Clark dishes a lot of dirt. Can't remember what press
it's on, though, or if it's still in print.
Clark's _The Great Naropa Poetry Wars_ was published by Cadmus Editions in
1980. Doubt it's still in print. Ed Dorn still won't be found on the Naropa
campus next door to CU.
Mary Oppen in _Meaning A Life_ has some stuff on George's troubled relation
to Zukofsky. More material can be found in the volume of his letters edited
by Rachel DuPlessis. Jenny Penberthy touches on LZ's relationship w/
Niedecker, & her cautious letters to Corman (ed. Lisa Faranda) add more.
Excommunications? How 'bout any history of Breton & the surrealists.
Guess we'll have to wait for Kevin's Spicer bio to hear all about how
Duncan/Spicer/Blaser et al. treated each other, & the seriousness of their
fallings out. Anyone present at the Blaser gig remembers Kevin reading a
George Stanley letter talking about Robin while George sat there on stage
grinning & squirming.
Who doesn't remember the ugly ruckus arising from RD's interruption of Barry
Watten's LZ talk. After David Levi Strauss dredged it up a few years later,
the pages of the local _Poetry Flash_ were filled w/ it. All of which did
have repercussions on who people talked to/read/published with.
Of course there's more. But even when serious issues of poetics are involved,
going over all this 'dirt' seldom rises above the level of gossip &
personalities. Guess I have doubts about the value of such a study.
Charles
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:06:55 -2400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: vannevar prosodie
Hi.
A hypertext-historical question (set of questions). Anybody here talk
about Vannevar Bush? Anybody here work with Intelligent Pad? Will that
program work on a mac? Is there a prosody of hypertext?
Jordan
Lisa: thanks for the papism. I forgot/didn't know Sitwell's book and will
trundle shortly to find it. Do you (does anybody here) read her poems?
They've always been brushed aside (when I bring them up) as
sort-of-second-rate Stein. Which doesn't seem quite accurate
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:03:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: the Wild Blue Yonder
Larry Price writes:
>It evidently is continually to be restated: We are not in relation to the
>past. We are relation to the present, where (as Peter Larkin remarked
>concerning David Jones) "culture has to be about forgetting [and then] to
>recognize the fragments that work up through that process in unfamiliar
>patterns which reoriginate attachment."
When you forget something, when you erase it, aren't forgetting and erasing
modes of relating to that something? Or, to ask it another way, doesn't the
past nonetheless come to presence, albeit as what is no longer present?
Please restate it again for us paranoiacs :-)
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 00:06:06 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: zukofsky/Bottom found
as happenstance would have it--
found at the local bookstore: 1st edition copy of Zukofsy's
_Bottom_, arc press, both volumes hardbound & cased; ex libris
Hugh Kenner (handsigned inside front cover, some markings &
maginal annotations)... contact me backchannel for pricing
&, while i'm at it, any offers on Dorn's _Gunslinger Book 2_,
black sparrow, ex libris ron silliman? why would he have
let that go? or why would he have had it in the first place?
luigi
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:32:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: yikes
>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:06:55 -2400
>From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
>Subject: vannevar prosodie
>
>Hi.
>A hypertext-historical question (set of questions). Anybody here talk
>about Vannevar Bush? Anybody here work with Intelligent Pad? Will that
>program work on a mac? Is there a prosody of hypertext?
>
>Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 08:19:14 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lisa Robertson <Lisa_Robertson@MINDLINK.BC.CA>
Subject: Sitwell
Dear Jordan,
Naturally I do read Sitwell's poems, especially her early ones. They-- with
Swinburne-- have become permanent bed-side fixtures. I find Sitwell very
unlike Stein and suspect their friendship and mutual respect tinted
sitwell's poems for some readers. In any case, their projects are quite
different in intent. The detail of Sitwell's attention to the sound texture
of a poem-- the specific variability of effect of syllabic structure on
metre and rhythm-- is almost scientic in its precision-- and beautiful and
funny. Many fairly sophisticated readers apparently thought so before the
New Critics successfully deleted her from serious discussion of 20C poetry.
Maybe this had something to do with her extension of some of the premises
of decadence-- terribly unfashionable-- as well as her exploration of fairy
tale and nursery rhyme as literary structures. I've fantasized for several
years about writing on Sitwell, and hope to get at it some day.
Lisa
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:22:54 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Albert Hall
Yes, I'll be there as the list's own cub reporter, and will file a report on the
proceedings on 16 Oct. Maybe Cris will also tell us how it was for him.
Michael Moorcock is a(n ex-) science-fiction writer who edited New Worlds
magazine and wrote a series of novels in the late 60s featuring counter-culture
anti-hero of the omniverse Jerry Cornelius. Lately he's been writing anti-porn
stuff with Andrea Dworkin. I can't remember who Howard Marks is/was.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:10:47 -40962758
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Rosenberg <jr@AMANUE.PGH.NET>
Subject: Re: vannevar prosodie
Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>:
> A hypertext-historical question (set of questions). Anybody here talk
> about Vannevar Bush?
There are a few of us hypertextual or machine-modulated poetry folk who hang
out hereabouts -- myself, John Cayley to name a couple. The discussion turns
to hypertext now and again but not with much persistence. You probably want
to subscribe to ht_lit. Pardon the bandwidth, but it's been a while since
anyone posted that address:
: From: riddle@rice.edu (Prentiss Riddle)
: People interested in hyperfiction may also want to know about "ht_lit",
: the hypertext and literary theory mailing list. The ht_lit list was
: created in February 1995 to provide a forum for discussion of hypertext
: fiction, hypertext and literary studies, and hypertext theory. To
: subscribe, send mail to "subscribe@journal.biology.carleton.ca" with
: the phrase "subscribe ht_lit" in the body of the message. For more
: information see:
:
: ht_lit archive page
: http://www.eng.carleton.ca/~kmennie/ht_lit.html
> Anybody here work with Intelligent Pad? Will that
> program work on a mac?
I'm not familiar with that one; try posting to alt.hypertext.
> Is there a prosody of hypertext?
You might want to look at a piece I wrote called "Notes Toward a Non-Linear
Prosody of Space". You can find it at:
http://www.well.com/user/jer/nonlin_prosody.html
--
Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/
CIS: 71515,124
WELL: jer
Internet: jr@amanue.pgh.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 11:11:08 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: wrighting & mullen
In-Reply-To: <199509300358.UAA28226@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
Alan et al -- actually, first Wright book I've seen is _Death as
History_ (1967), followed by _The Homecoming Singer_ (1971) --
Heven't seen anything substantial on Mullen yet -- I spoke briefly about
_Trimmings_ at MLA in NY where you were in audience -- & will send copy
of that -- forthcoming book quotes a number of reviews, so I'll send you
those pages in case you want to see the full reviews -- Trust there will
be more critical work to come --
Mullen, by the way, has a chapter in _The Culture of Sentiment_, ed. by
Shirley Samuels, that's worth looking at -- if your library doesn't have
it, I can send a xerox --
in paragraph two, that's Harryette's forthcoming book, _Muse & Drudge_,
not mine -- I quote Mullen on vision & literacy in mine, but won't get
to my full discussion of her poetry till vol. 2 --
would love to hear anything you have to say about her work
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:48:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Sitwell
Lisa and Jordan,
This is Kevin Killian speaking. If you enjoy Edith Sitwell, I know you
will enjoy the forthcoming film "At Home with the Stars #3, featuring
Denton Welch," by the NY videographer Joe Westmoreland, in which I yours
truly play Dame Edith Sitwell in this feature-length version of the life of
Denton Welch.
I got to write all my own dialogue, dress up in fabulous clothes and
jewels, and welcome Denton into my London flat . . . serve him tea . . . we
discuss poetry and literature, and Denton's illness and death. As I was
speaking underneath this wonderful jewel-studded turban, I believe I was
able to channel Sitwell's actual voice: she spoke through me just as Lorca
did to Spicer! Only this is in living color, and pixel vision too. Anyhow
watch for this show at an obscure art film festival near you early next
year. However, Lisa, you are the Sitwell de nos jours, the Edith of
Vancouver, and your pudeur, wit and brilliance when reading will never be
forgotten by any who have seen you read; however, I had the right dress
(one of Dodie's) and headdress, so it is a tossup.
Did you know that Edith met, in the course of her career, not only Denton
Welch but Raquel Welch too? XXX Kevin
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Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:36:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: o wind (was: http://azstarnet.com/starnet/today/lx2030.htm)
Comments: To: english@listserv.arizona.edu
>Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 13:31:13 -0700
>From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@azstarnet.com>
>Organization: University of Arizona
>To: tenney@azstarnet.com
>Subject: http://azstarnet.com/starnet/today/lx2030.htm
>Content-Length: 4188
>
>http://azstarnet.com/starnet/today/lx2030.htm
>> Tenure inquiry
>> may be dicey,
>> regents learn
>>
>> By Alisa Wabnik
>>
>> The Arizona Daily Star
>>
>> TEMPE - Even the question of how to debate tenure drew controversy
>> at yesterday's Arizona Board of Regents meeting, previewing the
>> intense feelings to come as the board considers whether to eliminate
>> the university job benefit.
>>
>> Board members agreed, 4-2, to hear in the next several months from
>> national experts - both for and against tenure - before deciding how
>> to proceed.
>>
>> But they first rejected a proposal from university presidents and
>> faculty to get their recommendations from a committee of
>> academicians. Some regents said it would produce biased results.
>>
>> ``If all the people on this (proposed) task force come out of
>> academia, then we're not going to have the kind of discussion I want
>> to have,'' Regent John Munger said.
>>
>> ``We don't want to just discuss the possibility of modifying tenure.
>> We want to discuss whether tenure is appropriate at all,'' Munger
>> said.
>>
>> Regent Hank Amos agreed, but nevertheless voted with Regent Andrew
>> Hurwitz against having multiple speakers because he wanted to hire
>> independent consultants instead. Hurwitz preferred the committee
>> structure, while board President Eddie Basha abstained. Regents Art
>> Chapa and Rudy Campbell were absent.
>>
>> Munger's comments provoked a forceful response from Arizona State
>> University President Lattie Coor, who said they violated his
>> understanding from previous discussions of where the board is
>> headed.
>>
>> ``These are matters that affect literally thousands of people,''
>> Coor said. ``If this board intends to seriously entertain
>> eliminating tenure as a function of the Arizona university system -
>> a step so radical that it would fundamentally transform all the
>> institutions - then I think we ought to . . . get this issue on the
>> table.''
>>
>> Tenure has been a staple of academic life since the early 20th
>> century, when universities began offering it to their faculty as
>> both freedom and security - freedom to pursue scholarly ideas
>> without fear of political reprisal, and economic security to compete
>> with higher-paying jobs in the private sector.
>>
>> As of last fall, 2,765 of the 5,507 faculty in Arizona's university
>> system had tenure, said Nor- ma Salas, the regents' assistant for
>> public affairs. About another 1,000 were on the tenure track, she
>> said.
>>
>> ``The concern of the faculty about tenure is not their concern about
>> their personal tenure,'' which likely would be protected by
>> contracts written before any new board action, said ASU Provost
>> Milton Glick.
>>
>> ``It is rather a concern about our ability to be the best possible
>> university.'' Many administrators and faculty worry that eliminating
>> tenure could drive away Arizona's best professors, who could seek
>> jobs elsewhere since most other universities offer the benefit.
>>
>> But regents also hear from community members who view tenure as
>> simply a lifelong job perk for unproductive professors.
>>
>> ``Regents across this country, legislators across this country, the
>> public across this country are all asking for us to rethink the
>> notion of tenure . . . and that's what we're doing,'' Basha said.
>>
>> But University of Arizona President Manuel Pacheco said after
>> yesterday's discussion that, ``There is more intensity to the issue
>> of whether we should have tenure or not than I guess I had read''
>> from previous meetings.
>>
>> Regent Judy Gignac said she hoped the ruckus would not prompt
>> faculty to get ``all riled up,'' akin to the turnout of about 150
>> people Thursday when the regents discussed affirmative action.
>>
>> However, Hurwitz countered that - although he likely would not vote
>> to end tenure in Arizona - ``there is a strong possibility that
>> members of this board will want to look at a variety of radical
>> alternatives. I think the faculty should be anxious,'' Hurwitz said.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> News Links
>>
>> The regents and their responsibilities are profiled in theRegents
>> Home Page at ASU.
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:47:42 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Scholar's Bookshelf
Brian McHale very kindly backconduited the coordinates of the
Scholar's Bookshelf store at which I was able to put an order in
for two copies of Bottom for $18US ea (I think). Brian, thank you
very much for the effort you went to to find the address
etc. Since I have to post this thank you to the List Itself,
may as well also post the store's address in case anyone else
wants it:
110 Melrich Rd
Cranbury, NJ
08512
Tel. (609) 395 6933
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Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:50:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: A Criticism (in Really Bad Taste)
>Michael Moorcock is a(n ex-) science-fiction writer who edited New Worlds
>magazine and wrote a series of novels in the late 60s featuring counter-culture
>anti-hero of the omniverse Jerry Cornelius. Lately he's been writing anti-porn
>stuff with Andrea Dworkin.
With a name like that, he's taking a mighty big risk writing anti-porn stuff.
Steve