=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 03:28:33 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Williams, W. C.
><<It's fairly apparent that within the "professional" or business
community
>Williams felt such an admission of vocation--with the no distinction
>between what one "does" and who one "is"--difficult to make in
>mid-century America. As an addendum, I'd say that declaring one's
>profession as Professor of Poetry in polite conversation around the
>Thanksgiving Turkey in 1995 doesn't get you very many more nods of
>approval and tacit understanding than Williams's admission got him in
>1954.
>
>Joseph Conte>>
>
>Try going with WCW's affirmation without the prestige attached to
>"Professor!"
>
>all best, charles
>
--------------------------------
I remember on my first job trying to keep my poetry quiet (I'd only
published one book and that from Ithaca House, never a paragon of
distribution) and getting away with it for about a year until somebody
(never did figure out who) saw and clipped a review I did (a POSITIVE
review of Tom Clark's _Neil Young_ in Rolling Stone to be exact) and
posted it on the bulletin board. I was appalled at first, but then
nothing much happened other than a couple of the more argumentative
types wanting to know more and discovering that I wasn't doing
identarian "the people united" dramatic monologs and having some
interesting arguments over that. Since then, everyone's pretty much
known that I write poetry and it's no big deal. Some people where I
work fly airplanes or go ocean fishing on the weekends, others run
marathons, others are active in their churches. I think people take it
on that level.
It works the other way too. Jack Krick and I just discovered that we
work pretty much in the same industry. (I've been a client of his
company, no less.) Wouldn't've guessed if his email server hadn't
bounced back a message over the Thanksgiving weekend with the specific
division title in the header.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:22:46 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeff Hansen <Jeff_Hansen@BLAKE.PVT.K12.MN.US>
Organization: The Blake School
Subject: Poetry and the Academy
In the discussion on poetry in the academy, I have yet to see mention of the
financial crisis in higher education.
Young people with Ph.D.s who are interested in poetry rarely get hired.
Granted, the situation is bad in every subspecialty of English departments,
but the poetry one seems most acute.
The situation will probably not end, and, since I am not now in academia and
probably will never return, I 'm not that concerned about it.
Rather, I'm interested in what happens to intellectuals (may I still use that
word) who have been university trained (perhaps in a highly innovative manner
such as myself--Beloit College and The SUNY-Buffalo English program), and
leave academia for greener pastures. Do some give up on writing and thinking?
Or do others, like me, try to squeeze it into incredibly busy schedules?
Unlike Charles Alexander, I left academia not because I didn't want it, but
because it didn't want me.
A few years ago, I couldn't think of a better job for a writer than a
professor--flexible schedule.
But now I am beginning to look at nonacademic life as a blessing: I don't
have to worry about publishing in certain places or publishing the right kind
of thing. Not ever having to write critical articles/papers has freed my prose
in ways I like. While I do enjoy reading some academic prose, I did find that
too much exposure to it limits me.
Now, my thinking and writing are hobbies rather than a profession. And, as a
long-time critic of "professionalism," I like that.
Since there are others like me, maybe this situation is good. Maybe the
freedom to think and write without institutional constraints will make us more
interesting and interested, less "fashionable", more true to our own evolving
engagements. I know that it is a cliche, but academia does stultify thinking
in many ways, many of which have been outlined in this discussion
Finally, before I appear too anti-academic, let me say that I appreciate how
the academic critics mentioned by Ron Silliman do promote poetry there. It is
one of the institutions where poetry is taken seriously. (but it is not, Hugh
Kenner, the only place that takes care of poetry). Luigi Bob Drake, for one,
creates other places. Three cheers for Taproot Reviews.
Three cheers for renegade poet/thinkers.
Best,
Jeff
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:53:32 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "David J. Coogan" <coogan@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
In-Reply-To: <951130165339_61802166@emout04.mail.aol.com>
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Michael Greer wrote:
When I was in grad
> school, all of my "cultural studies" friends (who were not in English but in
> the Institute for Communications Research at U of Illinois) continually
> pressed me about the exclusionary, colonialist politics of English studies,
> about the high-cultural bias of literary studies, and repeatedly wanted to
> know why on earth one might want to study poetry, and avant-garde at that, in
> a culture such as ours. I wrote a dissertation to answer them, and I'm not
> satisfied with my response yet: it's a good question. I for one urge that it
> be taken seriously...
>
Michael --
How did you answer the question in your dissertation? (How did
you begin to answer it?)
Dave Coogan
coogan@charlie.acc.iit.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:17:09 -0600
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
jeff, i really do think that the alternatives are not simply the
"professional" as currently construed over and against the "hobbyist"...
and although one may locate oneself outside of academe per se (thankfully)
the reality is that academe per se will always have something to say about
poetry/poetics...
which is to say, simply, that nobody operates outside of (some conjunction
of) institutions...
i'd rather that talented folks who DON'T earn a living as writers STILL be
regarded "professionals"... i'd rather that, again, some "we" appropriates
this latter term and disengages it from "making a living"... but again my
ambivalence---i just see no other way to mount any sustained resistance to
more orthodox pressures, esp. these days...
anyway, i appreciate the gist of what you're saying...
all best//
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:10:16 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "I am I am"
Ok Ron, you've got me laughing now. I was just responding to a little
academic whining with some outsider whining of my own. You're right, most
people respond to the activity of poetry w/ mild curiosity which quickly
passes, & conversation returns to skiing or music or whatever. A few are
interested though, & I've been pleased to turn on some lawyers, accounting
clerks, biologists, & cabinet makers to poems by poets they'd never have
heard of otherwise, & through that have even been responsible for the sale of
a few books. I was taken aback though last month when a woman approached me
wondering if I had any poems that "might be appropriate for our Sunday church
services."
all best, charles smith
><<It's fairly apparent that within the "professional" or business
community
>Williams felt such an admission of vocation--with the no distinction
>between what one "does" and who one "is"--difficult to make in
>mid-century America. As an addendum, I'd say that declaring one's
>profession as Professor of Poetry in polite conversation around the
>Thanksgiving Turkey in 1995 doesn't get you very many more nods of
>approval and tacit understanding than Williams's admission got him in
>1954.
>
>Joseph Conte>>
>
>Try going with WCW's affirmation without the prestige attached to
>"Professor!"
>
>all best, charles
>
--------------------------------
I remember on my first job trying to keep my poetry quiet (I'd only
published one book and that from Ithaca House, never a paragon of
distribution) and getting away with it for about a year until somebody
(never did figure out who) saw and clipped a review I did (a POSITIVE
review of Tom Clark's _Neil Young_ in Rolling Stone to be exact) and
posted it on the bulletin board. I was appalled at first, but then
nothing much happened other than a couple of the more argumentative
types wanting to know more and discovering that I wasn't doing
identarian "the people united" dramatic monologs and having some
interesting arguments over that. Since then, everyone's pretty much
known that I write poetry and it's no big deal. Some people where I
work fly airplanes or go ocean fishing on the weekends, others run
marathons, others are active in their churches. I think people take it
on that level.
It works the other way too. Jack Krick and I just discovered that we
work pretty much in the same industry. (I've been a client of his
company, no less.) Wouldn't've guessed if his email server hadn't
bounced back a message over the Thanksgiving weekend with the specific
division title in the header.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:28:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
Jeff Hanson writes:
>Rather, I'm interested in what happens to intellectuals (may I still use that
>word) who have been university trained (perhaps in a highly innovative manner
>such as myself--Beloit College and The SUNY-Buffalo English program), and
>leave academia for greener pastures. Do some give up on writing and thinking?
>Or do others, like me, try to squeeze it into incredibly busy schedules?
Jeff, a bit of fodder on this issue:
Early on, I planned a triplicate kind of path that has served me in happy
ways. I secured what is sometimes called the terminal degree in academia; I
went on to build a very interesting career in the corporate world; and
throughout it all I write and write.
I find no conflict whatsoever (except a challenge with time, which I keep
becoming better at addressing) relative to TIME USAGE. But everyone else
seems to have that issue, too.
I'd say that there's the potential for something that certainly resembles
"having it all" by combining strong academic preparation and creative
applications of it in other arenas. The business world is, for all other
things it may be, deliciously practical, focused, and discrete in terms of
offering projects that begin and end. I find it no threat to my "thinky"
pursuits and have always enjoyed the people in that world.
Bottom line (since we're addressing business) is that you have the potential
for a very positive experience outside of academia, so long as you keep your
expectations in line with what you can want and are willing to make happen.
Hope this is helpful.
Sheila Murphy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:43:55 EST
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Daniel Bouchard/College/hmco <Daniel_Bouchard@HMCO.COM>
Subject: Dirtywords.com
I just read that America On-Line retracted its ban on using the word "breast"
in personal profiles after a barrage of protests from people who use the
Internet to discuss breast cancer and other medical issues. What other kinds
of censorship have people experienced with the services of AOL or other
internet companies? What other words does AOL consider vulgar?
Personally, I think "downsizing" is one of the most vulgar words out there
today.
daniel_bouchard@hmco.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:59:55 EST
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin McGuirk <MCGUIRKK@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:53:40 -0500 from
<Nctemgreer@AOL.COM>
Though I'm not widely read in cultural studies, I have been thinking about
poetry and cultural studies, provoked by poetry's palpable absence from at
least the major cs anthologies. In fact, I just got back on the list because a
friend and I had been planning a proposal for a poetry & cs anthology, when
another friend told me about this discussion. I wanted to check it out, and
I'm compelled to add my own half-born, maybe monstrous, thoughts on the matter.
One thing that seems important to me is not to take a defensive posture
regarding cs. Poetry has been largely on the defensive since at least
Arnold, and that posture, along with its enduring affiliation with Arnoldian
notions of culture has ensured its cultural marginality. As has been noted,
cs refused Arnoldian notions of culture along with what was for A and still
is for many (in the least likely places, I might add) the privileged
cultural site of poetry. But like theory, cs is a provocation to reconsider, or
at least reconsider how we consider, the nature of poetry and of the
poetic. The New Formalists have been taken to task for their theory-attitude
and I would be sorry to see a similar attitute toward cs developing as well.
I agree with some posters that "subject" studies on "breastfeeding in Villette"
arent (hard, anyway) cultural studies, if they consider only practices
*represented* in literature and not literature itself as a practice. (I have
no objections to such work *personally*; I'm simple enough to want to learn
about stuff writers write about,but then I'm not in a position to evaluate
graduate work in English depts). It seems to me that an assumption of much
comment on potential links between poetry and cs is that cs will be accommodate
d TO poetry, that we'll just do culturalist readings of work we already call
poetry, i.e what we put into anthologies for teaching it. But what is
refreshing about cs to me is that it won't respect the boundaries we continue t
o draw around a variety of verse practices. An anthology of work on poetry and
cs, it seems to me, would include work on Poetry as well as greeting card
verse (I'm curious about ITS history), prayers, schoolyard and nursery rhymes,
rap and rock [of course, tho no claims to Art for Jim Morrison], or cultural
histories of how people (who dont think about literature) have USED poetry.
And much else, including for example, the renga that's been discussed here.
Poetry as people's practice, not art, however "degraded" or commodified it
might seem or be.
Now much recent American poetics takes poetry as practice -
and this should maybe make poetry exemplary for cs (and indeed some impt
cs notions were first noticed by romantic poets, like the everyday). But
it seems to me (tho this reading may be too impressionistic and generalizing -
take it for what it's worth) that 20th century poetry functions largely as
symbolic practice;it seeks onlya metaphorical resonance with the world
"out there", public life, and in "here", how people actually live in the
world (i.e. not the Platonic everyday which is the pap of of a lot of
lyric poetry). My feeling these days, as teacher and lover of poetry in all
its forms (just about) is that we need to get out in the field, and
that we shouldnt worry either about its apparent antagonists among the "masses"
neitherthe TV watching public nor"arrogant braggart" grad students (Yikes!)(who
it seems to me don't merit such a Grand dismissal, if qualified by MOST grad
students).
My chief hesitation about a collection of cs work on poetry is that the
motley flavour of the total list of cultural criticism on poetry represented
by postings here would be lost, especially if it were published by
Routledge.
I would add only: "`It dread inna Inglan'":Linton Kwesi Johnson, Dub, and
Dread Identity" by Peter Hitchcock in _Postmodern Culture_ 4.1 Sept 1993.
Kevin McGuirk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:58:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa Januzzi <Marisa.Januzzi@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: needs junk
In-Reply-To: <951130194740_39866940@emout04.mail.aol.com>
Wallace Stevens of all people wrote great junkyard lyrics: "The Man on
the Dump." Thought you were hearing the 'burble of bassoons' bubbling up
there, Bill Luoma... thanks for that post.
John Yau and Bill Barrette did a NY book about two years ago-- poetics of
vacant precincts, photographs of dumps and other 'unseen' places in NY-- but
the cumulative effect is really sad and dislocating and disturbing and in an
oblique way, confrontational-- not bubblie, in a word.
Off to my dump-site of a desk------ Marisa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:16:35 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Issa Clubb <issa@VOYAGERCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Dirtywords.com
>What other words does AOL consider vulgar?
Here is a cut and paste from a website which tells you what you want to know:
"Why AOL Sucks"
http://www.cloud9.net:80/~jegelhof/
Strangely "breast" does not appear, even though this is an old document.
I've heard stories of people being kicked off when their kids snuck on
using a parent's account, & who then experienced much condescension in the
process of getting their account restored.
____________________________
AOL's "Vulgarity Guidelines"
This is an internal AOL memo indicating what, specifically, "bad words"
are. Most of these words are sexual slang, but some others - most
notably those relating to homosexuality - are also deleted. Note also the
policies, footnotes, and rating systems in this document.
It is impossible to contend that this document isn't a censorship system.
____________________
VULGARITY GUIDELINES
This section contains examples of vulgar, conditionally vulgar, and
acceptable phrases and subjects. Synonyms of these are usually
unacceptable. Gender should not be taken into account; if "men on men" is
not allowed, neither is "women on men". Asterisks and other
symbols cannot be used to "mask" a violation if any letters of the
vulgarity are still present. "F--- you" is vulgar, but "my *** hurts" is
okay.
Staff should use judgement in warning members who ask if certain things are
vulgar. If the member appears genuine, the staffer should answer
the question via IM or E-Mail, or refer the member to Keyword: TOS if they
feel uncomfortable answering; they should also suggest that the
member restrict future questions to E-Mail or IMs. If the member begins to
use the "question" format to spout vulgarity, the member should be
given a friendly reminder to keep such things to private communication. If
the member continues, a warning is in order.
If a phrase comes up that is not listed here, use your judgement to decide
whether to warn the member, and send E-Mail to your online
supervisor to obtain an official decision.
69 - rooms (sexual)
adultery - OK
anti-AOL - (6)
anti-Guide/Staff - (6)
ass - (5)
bare skin - OK
bears - OK
bearskin - OK
bi - OK
bitch - (2)
blow (job) - vulgar
bondage - vulgar
bound to tease - (Rooms)
boys - rooms
clit - vulgar
cock - vulgar
come - (3)
cornhole - vulgar
couples - OK
cross dressing - rooms
cum - (3)
cunnilingus - vulgar
cunt - vulgar
damn - OK
defecation - vulgar
dick - vulgar
do me - rooms
dom - rooms
domination - rooms
douche - vulgar
dykes - (11)
erotic - rooms
and so on, until ...
VULGAR: Unconditionally vulgar.
ROOMS: Vulgar in room names or screen names.
ROOMS (SEXUAL): Vulgar in room names or screen names if possibly sexual.
These words are only allowed in screen names or room names
if other phrases clearly make them not sexual. For instance, a member may
not create a room "Oral," but "Oral Roberts" is permitted. " Slaves
here" is not allowed, but "Free the slaves" is. "Jimmy69" would be fine,
but "Ilike69" would have to be deleted.
OK: Acceptable. These words do not, in and of themselves, constitute
vulgarity or sexual connotations.
1 * who want *: If referring to people, this is not allowed in room names.
For instance, "Men who want women" is vulgar, while " Men who
want a car" is not.
2. Bitch: Vulgar if an insultable person, place, or thing is being called a
bitch. "Life's a bitch" is fine, "My mom is a bitch" is vulgar.
3. Come/cum: Vulgar if used in a possibly sexual manner. "Cum over here" is
fine, "I come when I think if you" isn't.
4. GIF/Graphic Exchange: While not vulgar, this is not allowed in room
names due to the probability of illegal GIFs being exchanged.
5. Suck/Ass/Fart/Piss: Vulgar if used in a possibly or probably
sexual/vulgar manner ("suck me", "kiss my ass", "I just farted"), or if an
insultable person, place, or thing is said to be this. "The Redskins suck"
is fine, "Life sucks" is fine, "Jimmy sucks" is not fine. "Nirvana Kicks
ass" is OK, "Jenny is an ass" is not. "Rich is an old fart" is OK, "You
should hear my brother Fart" is not. "I'm pissed off" is OK, "Piss on
you" is not. Exception: A member may say that AOL, or any manifestation
such as the Hosts/Forum Staff, sucks.
6. Anti-AOL: We do not want to appear to censor members who speak out
against us. Anti-AOL comments, or comments protesting
manifestations of AOL such as Hosts, should not warrant a warning. However,
comments which insult or harass individual Guides or AOL
employees should warrent a warning.
7. Racial Issues: Racial slurs are not allowed. Rooms promoting racism (KKK
Unite) are not allowed, but discussion of racial issues (KKK
Discussion) are.
8. Hot, wet: These are borderline words. Use your judgement, and consider
it vulgar if they're talking about "hot" as in sex, or "wet" as in
feminine moisture. Hot men/women/cars/videos/etc. are fine, as "hot" could
be referring to "good looking" or some other non-sexual thing.
9. Nudity: Discussion of nudity is fine; nude room names are a judgement call.
10. Sex: This is a judgement call. "Sexy" is fine, as an adjective. The
word should never appear in room names or screen names as a noun
(ILikeSex). In other situations, use the context to determine whether the
member was committing a TOS violation. For instance, "Hey babe,
anyone here wanna have sex" would be a violation. "I didn't let my child
see the movie because of the sex in it" would not be a violation.
11. Dykes/Queers: This is OK if a member is refering to themselves. If it
is used "against" someone then it is warnable. However, this word
requires judgement.
__________________
Issa Clubb
issa@voyagerco.com
Voyager Art Dept.
(212) 343-4213
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 21:10:51 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: e-rngan poetics
Briefish afterthought for those still curious. The renga project asks some
provocative questions about 'authorship'. Not that there aren't antecedents
in the exquisite corpse of the Surrealists. I collaborated with Steve
Benson and Allen Fisher about 10 years back on a piece published in Sulfur
under the title 'Assumptions Table', The text doesn't identify who said
what in the transcript of a live performance. Curiously with the passage of
time we would probably all three have difficulty in registering who said
what, for at least part of the text. I've frequently discussed publishing
some of my work anonymously and am one of several people in the UK who have
deliberately published under each others' names. (no, I'm not telling and
yes I know about Hakim Bey)
'Authorship' is worth interrogating and perhaps especially in the contexts
of cultural studies.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 21:17:36 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
Jeff Hansen writes:
>Rather, I'm interested in what happens to intellectuals (may I still use that
>word) who have been university trained (perhaps in a highly innovative manner
>such as myself--Beloit College and The SUNY-Buffalo English program), and
>leave academia for greener pastures. Do some give up on writing and thinking?
>Or do others, like me, try to squeeze it into incredibly busy schedules?
My experience with artists and intellectuals is that, yes, some do give it
up, but that a lot don't. And a lot of those that don't give it up, though,
aren't necessarily very public about what they do. I tend to imagine that
there are a lot of marvelous artists who never get their work to a public.
>Unlike Charles Alexander, I left academia not because I didn't want it, but
>because it didn't want me.
Not so much that I didn't want it, but that it wasn't what I wanted it to
be, and I found what to me at the time was more satisfying. But believe me,
the life of an artist outside the academy has its problems, too, and its
insecurities are more apparent to me now that I am a parent of two children
than they were to me when some choices were made 16 or 17 years ago. Still,
I generally have no regrets, although sometimes I do.
>But now I am beginning to look at nonacademic life as a blessing: I don't
>have to worry about publishing in certain places or publishing the right kind
>of thing. Not ever having to write critical articles/papers has freed my prose
>in ways I like. While I do enjoy reading some academic prose, I did find that
>too much exposure to it limits me.
>Now, my thinking and writing are hobbies rather than a profession. And, as a
>long-time critic of "professionalism," I like that.
I think I agree with what you're saying here, but I don't think the word
"hobby" quite does justice. Maybe a passion rather than a profession. Or a
life rather than a profession. Not that there aren't many within professions
to whom the thinking & writing is the life.
>Since there are others like me, maybe this situation is good. Maybe the
>freedom to think and write without institutional constraints will make us more
>interesting and interested, less "fashionable", more true to our own evolving
>engagements. I know that it is a cliche, but academia does stultify thinking
>in many ways, many of which have been outlined in this discussion
Yes, but there is still the struggle to simply find the time to do the work.
I admire the way Sheila Murphy manages it, the way Ron Silliman manages it,
but it still is a daily struggle. Although I think those of us outside the
academy tend to think universities GIVE professors the time to pursue their
own work, while the truth may be more complicated than that. And it's not
just time, but time & money. For example, there are many conferences and
festivals mentioned in this forum. For someone not able to tap travel
allowances from departments or universities, getting to even one such event
a year (and experiencing the give-and-take with one's peers) can be difficult.
>Three cheers for renegade poet/thinkers.
hooray hooray hooray
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 21:21:38 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
>i'd rather that talented folks who DON'T earn a living as writers STILL be
>regarded "professionals"... i'd rather that, again, some "we" appropriates
>this latter term and disengages it from "making a living"... but again my
>ambivalence---i just see no other way to mount any sustained resistance to
>more orthodox pressures, esp. these days...
I am not certain I understand who you're talking about -- I mean, are the
talented folks who DO earn their living as writers the very few who are
outside the academy other fields, rather those who actually earn their
living from royalties and readings? I don't think of academics as people who
earn a living as writers; but I also don't think of those of us who work in
other fields for a living as such -- yet I do think of all of us as equals
in the work of writing.
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:02:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
what's all this i hear about pottery and cultural studies?
what's all this i hear about popery and cult studs?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:37:37 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Daniel Bouchard/College/hmco <Daniel_Bouchard@HMCO.COM>
Subject: Testimony: Dr. Owens Wiwa
Comments: cc: drothschild <drothschild@penguin.com>
This was downloaded from the Greenpeace Web page.
daniel_bouchard@hmco.com
____________________
TRANSCIPT OF 'A TESTIMONY' BY DR. OWENS WIWA (Brother of Ken Saro Wiwa)
Steering Commitee Member of the Movement for the Survival of the Ogoni
People (MOSOP)
PREPARED BY GREENPEACE ON BEHALF OF THE MOVEMENT FOR THE SURVIVAL OF THE
OGONI PEOPLE
FIRST MEETING WITH BRIAN ANDERSON
I first met Brian Anderson the chairman and managing director of Shell
Nigeria on the Queens birthday party 1995 in Lagos, and he promises to my
wife to help, to see that Ken gets adequate medical attention, he says he
will see what he can do and we leave at the end of the party and I write of
my encounter to Ken send it through my wife who leaves this day to see Ken
and through this letter we are very happy to learn that Ken has been taken
to the hospital the military hospital for the first time after being in
detention for about 11 months.
SECOND MEETING WITH BRIAN ANDERSON
Well I asked him if he would use his influence to stop the trial announced
so that Ken can get can get out of the illegal detention and so that
negotiation can start between Shell and the Ogoni people. And he says
that's difficult, but not impossible but that the international campaign is
hurting Shell and the Nigerian government and if we can stop the campaign
that he might be able to do something.
So I tell him that I don't have the power to do that, but however I will
pass the information to Ken, and he also at that time said I should try and
get into the press - to get a press release and get him a copy, you know
mentioning the fact that there is no environmental devastation in Ogoniland
and I just say how can I do that, you mean I tell the world that what we've
been saying ever since 1990 is a lie, there is no way I will do that. And
that happened at our second meeting.
THIRD MEETING WITH BRIAN ANDERSON
I wrote to Ken and Ken replied back with a letter to Brian Anderson where
he gives him two scenarios. The first one - Ken gets killed and becomes a
martyr or they [Shell] did the right thing, use their influence with the
Nigerian government and get him out of their illegal detention and stop the
charade of the tribunal. And when that happens the lobby with the writers
will stop, the lobby by the human rights groups will stop and that remains
the environmental campaigners and when the environmental lobby sees that he
is now discussing with Shell they will lower or stop their campaign.
Mr Brian Anderson tells me that he will no longer be available for further
discussion as he'll be travelling frequently but that I should continue the
discussion with Mr Achebe. Mr Achebe stresses the importance of continuous
dialogue and after a week I phone Achebe and I'm told he's in Germany I
phone again a second time and I'm told he's in Abucja and I phone again and
I'm told he's in Port Harcourt holding meetings with other Ogoni people and
I phone another time and he's not in the office and all this time I'm
leaving my number and my messages and I don't get any reply so I now switch
back to phone Anderson both in his office and in his house. Now I phoned
the first time in his house and they tell me he's at a cocktail party I
phone another time and he's having lunch and I ask whether I can phone
after lunch I don't get any answer, but I still phone and still he's not
available and I phone another time and I hear he's not around you know and
then I sort if get the message and I write back to Ken that it appears that
I'm being avoided and Ken writes back - that I shouldn't bother as it
appears a decision has been made.
DEVASTATION OF OGONILAND
Ogoni environment is devastated. I got involved in Ogoniland after coming
back to Ogoni after my University medical school and then the first thing
that struck me is that the trees around my father's house the oranges and
the guavas are no longer there the ones there are not producing any fruit
and they sort of shrunken. Then I go to the hospital and the spectrum of
diseases I see there is quite different from the ones I was taught at
school or the ones I saw in other places I'd worked in Nigeria. A lot of
respiratory diseases - high incidence of asthma, cancer, bronchitis and I'm
quite surprised and also some bizarre skin diseases and a high level of
miscarriages which is quite different from other areas in Nigeria that are
not producing oil. And the land Ogoni is a small place about 404 square
miles 12 miles by 32 and large expanse of land that nothing grows on
because of the oil spillages that have happened because of oil blow outs
gas flares all over Ogoniland. You don't know when it is night it's always
glowing. With the noise from the flow stations - it's very deafening and
the people speak rather they shout the way of talking because they have to
get across to the other person. And the pipe line gas and oil pipelines
criss-crossing the whole place on the surface of the ground passing in
front of houses at the back of houses on farm land unprotected.
SHELL CLAIM SABOTAGE BY OGONI
Shell claims that the environmental devastation in Ogoniland is due to
sabotage of the installations by Ogoni people, as far as I know no Ogoni
person no MOSOP activist has ever been convicted of sabotage of oil
installations. The Ogoni people would be the last people on earth to go
near the Shell installations because they know that if anything goes wrong
on the pipelines or on the installations it is their land which they hold
precious that will be spoiled - that will be devastated it is their streams
from which they fish and drink water that will be polluted because their is
no piped on water in Ogoniland it's only the water from the streams so no
Ogoni person will go near any Shell installation for sabotage because that
would lead to spillage and we understand spillages and devastated land more
than any people in this world.
EVIDENCE THAT SHELL ARE INVOLVED WITH MILITARY
I drive down to the village of Korokor-tai when I get there I meet another
young man on the ground in a pool of blood at the feet of his mother and
I'm told that he was shot by Major
[Okuntino??] who had come there in the Shell bus accompanied by Shell
executives and they had come to the village, said they were coming to look
for Shell trucks. In my clinic in Bori Ogoniland I see the police constable
coming to my clinic to tell me that all Ogoni people in the police in Ogoni
land have been transferred out and I'm scared and he shows me the posting
order transferring them and immediately I get to my car because that's
frightening and go to visit my brother in hospital and I tell him what I've
just heard and give him the police posting order and he immediately writes
on it telling the world about what is happening and he's afraid that the
first episode of genocide is being planned against the people, the Ogoni
people.
I see foreign journalists in Bori and I ask what's happening they said they
heard that there's shooting a journalist from the Guardian of London and
one from the Independent. And I take them to the village Kaa where most of
my patients come from and we arrive there and it's like a small atomic bomb
has been placed on the village I mean dropped on the village, everything
the market is completely destroyed, the school the houses even the trees
are on the ground and it is very very frightening and we do know this time
there were police, I mean a military presence in Ogoniland. They were
stationed not too far from my clinic so I go back to the army and ask them
what has happened, and we go back there and they see the place and one of
the officials says that he hasn't seen this sort of thing even while he was
serving in Liberia that no destruction has ever been to this level and in
that particular incident 35 people are killed and it continues like that
another 7 Ogoni villages are all destroyed and a total of about one
thousand people are killed in these raids by people using sophisticated
weapons on unarmed villages and my patients tell me that the soldiers
arrived across Andoni river with Shell boats and while all this is going on
we notice the presence of Shell helicopters hovering around and we're
actually very very worried.
DETENTION OF OWENS WIWA
On the 26th December 1993 on Boxing day I'm in my house with my wife who's
pregnant and her sister as well come to spend Christmas with us and a
captain in the Nigerian army Captain Tunde Odina comes in and has a beer in
my house and eats the food my wife has prepared and at the end of it he
tells me to take a holiday, to leave Ogoniland go to Lagos or somewhere.
At about 5 O'clock another Major comes in he calls himself Major Akintola
of the Army Intelligence Unit at the Brigade in Bori camp and he tells me
that the governor of the state Lieutenant Colonel Komo wants to see me and
Barika Idamkue because at this time Barika Idamkue is the secretary of the
Ogoni Relief and Rehabilitation Committee and I'm the coordinator so I mean
we go there happily thinking that the Governor wants to give some relief to
the people so at the end of the conversation I tell him that I was told by
a captain, Captain Tunde Odina that I was to be arrested. So the Governor
tells me that is not true that is just one of the rumours that we hear and
keep telling people and there's nothing like that so I go back to my house
have dinner with my family and go to bed.
At about 2am the same captain who had come to my house you know to eat and
drink comes in shouting, breaking my door and asks where is Dr Wiwa, I say
well I'm here and then the other soldiers climb the fence and generally
make noise and then I ask what is the matter and he tells me you are, by
the order of the Federal Republic of Nigeria you are under arrest. So I go
back to my room change into my clothes and go into the 504 military vehicle
and the other soldiers enter squeeze me in and they take me straight to the
country home of Mr Ledum Mitee the Deputy President of MOSOP and repeat the
same sort of thing they did in my house and bring the guy into the car and
then the soldiers are coming inside too with their guns reeking of alcohol
and marijuana and generally threatening us you know, and took us straight
to the Air force base in Port Harcourt and later to the house of the
government reservation division in Port Harcourt.
And we stayed there until the 4th of January at about 5 O'clock or so Major
Okuntimo comes in to meet us and to discuss. We ask him why we are detained
he doesn't tell us anything, all he says is he's following his orders and
then curiously asks us that since MOSOP is big it's powerful that we should
join forces with him you know to see that one Mr Lawson-Jack senior
executive of Shell in Port Harcourt is removed and we tell him that we
don't do things like that. We talk about ideas and how to change corporate
behaviour in terms of the environmental devastation of Ogoniland we are not
in for removing individuals and all that and he insist and so we ask him
why, why do you want the man off? and then he explains that the man has
been undercutting him in his payments that he was also receiving from
Shell.
And after our discussion he tells us that we are released and on getting
out I meet my mother-in-law and I ask about my wife and she answers that
they are fine, I say what do you mean they are fine? I only have one wife,
so she says they are fine that you have a child I said a child ?, she said
yes, a son, I said yes how do I know it's a son I said I dreamt you know
but then my wife is not due but I rushed down to the hospital that she's
supposed to have delivered and I go in there and see her very happy and
beside her there's, there's a young kid you know all red and cries when he
sees me and I go and pick up my son and I feel very happy and I decide to
forget and forgive my detention because that has brought me a son and asked
my wife how everything happens and she tells me that after they are taking
me away after some hours when daylight was coming she decides to come and
look for me. And at this time there are many roadblocks manned by the army
in Ogoniland and she is stopped in one of the roadblocks and she comes out,
she is asked to come out of the car, she comes out and they ask her who she
is and she tells the person that she's my wife and they say Oh that trouble
maker so they ask her to identify herself further , she says she's a
housewife and housewives don't carry ID cards. So they search her and they
decide to search her person and she doesn't like that and the army man tell
her to go into the stream, the stream is polluted covered with oil, my wife
doesn't know how to swim. She protests, she gets the gun, they put up the
gun pushing her from the back and she is pushed into the pond, into the
stream but because of her hydrophobia she comes out and then the man aims
the nozzle of the gun at her pregnant abdomen and then contractions start
to come on and that process leads her to the hospital and my baby comes out
born on January 4th Ogoni day and that's how I get my child.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:01:22 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: Question
Comments: To: sjcarll@SLIP.NET
dear steve,
that was my answer also. And in that vein shouldn't we now ask
Tom to put the question: can some one tell me how one knows if one is a
novelist? or why that isn't the same question?
Wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 21:26:10 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
In-Reply-To: <323824.ensmtp@blake.pvt.k12.mn.us>
It is possible however lamely to hobble back thirty years later.
Tom
On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Jeff Hansen wrote:
> In the discussion on poetry in the academy, I have yet to see mention of the
> financial crisis in higher education.
>
> Young people with Ph.D.s who are interested in poetry rarely get hired.
> Granted, the situation is bad in every subspecialty of English departments,
> but the poetry one seems most acute.
>
> The situation will probably not end, and, since I am not now in academia and
> probably will never return, I 'm not that concerned about it.
>
> Rather, I'm interested in what happens to intellectuals (may I still use that
> word) who have been university trained (perhaps in a highly innovative manner
> such as myself--Beloit College and The SUNY-Buffalo English program), and
> leave academia for greener pastures. Do some give up on writing and thinking?
> Or do others, like me, try to squeeze it into incredibly busy schedules?
>
> Unlike Charles Alexander, I left academia not because I didn't want it, but
> because it didn't want me.
>
> A few years ago, I couldn't think of a better job for a writer than a
> professor--flexible schedule.
>
> But now I am beginning to look at nonacademic life as a blessing: I don't
> have to worry about publishing in certain places or publishing the right kind
> of thing. Not ever having to write critical articles/papers has freed my prose
> in ways I like. While I do enjoy reading some academic prose, I did find that
> too much exposure to it limits me.
>
> Now, my thinking and writing are hobbies rather than a profession. And, as a
> long-time critic of "professionalism," I like that.
>
> Since there are others like me, maybe this situation is good. Maybe the
> freedom to think and write without institutional constraints will make us more
> interesting and interested, less "fashionable", more true to our own evolving
> engagements. I know that it is a cliche, but academia does stultify thinking
> in many ways, many of which have been outlined in this discussion
>
> Finally, before I appear too anti-academic, let me say that I appreciate how
> the academic critics mentioned by Ron Silliman do promote poetry there. It is
> one of the institutions where poetry is taken seriously. (but it is not, Hugh
> Kenner, the only place that takes care of poetry). Luigi Bob Drake, for one,
> creates other places. Three cheers for Taproot Reviews.
>
> Three cheers for renegade poet/thinkers.
>
> Best,
>
> Jeff
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 00:36:48 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95120114334620@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
A more fundamental issue might be: is there any relation between
poetry and culture? I know I was taught there is but today
I'm not sure what that relation is if it exists. Is there any
relation between 10-yr-olds shooting others for neat jackets
and culture or is this relation to poetry?
In my field which is psychology there is a relation between culture and
ppsychology and one between poetry and psychology but these two
two relations come from opposite (or at best oblique) directions.
Tom Bell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 04:16:03 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
Chax says,
"Although I think those of us outside the academy tend to think
universities GIVE professors the time to pursue their own work, while
the truth may be more complicated than that."
I think that totally depends on where in the educational food chain you
happen to be. If you're at an Ivy League school or one of the 20 or so
major state funded universities out there, well, maybe. But if you are
at a "backwater" state college or small private school, the working
conditions and pay can be much worse than they would be if you just
went out and got a "regular" job (whatever the hell that is).
Cal State teachers are totally overworked. Virtually without exception,
they are inundated from the start of the school year until a few weeks
beyond the end of the spring term. They do get summers, but it's like
packing all your weekends into one package. Even working a 60 hour
week, which is pretty common for me, moving twice in one year and
raising three year old twins (who are beginning to compete with me for
time at this here machine), I'm never as overwhelmed as those folks.
And the folks in the junior or community college circuit? That borders
on slave labor.
I think this "flexible schedule" idea of teaching is pretty much a
myth. Plus conferences, once they become "normalized" as an activity,
aren't terribly earth shattering events. Far too much angling for
position goes on and gets in the way.
One thing that has made an impression on me is the Canadian system, in
which (correct me if I'm wrong) the two-year school is much more widely
recognized as the norm and, accordingly, its professors are given a
fair bit more in the way of status if not pay. They're also much more
apt to be expected to publish and be professionally involved than is
the case at their US equivalent institutions.
It makes much greater sense, I think, to consider teaching the hobby.
Writing is what I do. Period.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:27:51 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
Charles Alexander wrote (in part):
Yes, but there is still the struggle to simply find the time to do the work.
I admire the way Sheila Murphy manages it, the way Ron Silliman manages it,
but it still is a daily struggle.
Any chance that Sheila Murphy and/or Ron Silliman and/or Charles
Alexander would take a few more valuable moments to tell us a bit
about how they *do* manage it?
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:28:48 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: Question
What does MLA stand for?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:09:59 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.91.951201105021.13236B-100000@charlie.acc.iit.edu>
from "David J. Coogan" at Dec 1, 95 10:53:32 am
> When I was in grad
> school, all of my "cultural studies" friends (who were not in English but in
> the Institute for Communications Research at U of Illinois) continually
> pressed me about the exclusionary, colonialist politics of English studies,
> about the high-cultural bias of literary studies, and repeatedly wanted to
> know why on earth one might want to study poetry, and avant-garde at that, in
> a culture such as ours.
Instrumentalists of the Imagination--whether knee-jerk-neo-con,
certain cultural studies types, or what have you--seem to have in
common a hatred of any activity that can't be translated into a bottom
line, be it monetary or moralist. No wonder the resistance to literary
studies.
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:41:07 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
charles, yes, the equals part of what you say holds... i've no wish to
complicate things further by introducing more "levels"... i'm interested in
fact in institutional *consolidations*...
but here it is: i'm arguing that the designation "professional" may be
unavoidable finally if one wishes to be viewed as "legit" by so many
powers-that-be... and by "legit" i mean "have a say in"... i'm thinking
specifically in political terms here, and i've no doubt this will upset
more than a few even on this list, b/c many poetry communities i'm aware
of, and writing communities in general, often display a very american bias
against "collective" identification except in the most innocent terms...
despite the active presence of some very powerful organizations, even more
"vested" writers tend to act as though their work is independently sucked
up and into the "system"... and those who are not part of this latter
network continually decry its more ominous workings... in any case, it's
this same sort of bias that prevents academics, in fact, from wanting even
to talk about collective bargaining (just had that experience in my dept.
again yesterday, and it always begins with "but i thought a professional
was---")...
i'm landing on the term "professional" in part b/c of the problems i've
experienced on my campus (a tech. campus that is beginning to feel more
like a business institute)---it's clear to me now what the corporate
educational imperatives of the 21st. century will likely be centered around
(in the case of my campus, it's motorola that's doing a good portion of the
pushing)... and the term "professional" will likely be a key term in this
latter development...
part of the problem, as i see it, is that the term "professional" (and all
of its variants to varying degrees---profession, professor, profess) is
generally predicated on earning a living from what one does... i would
argue that one can do "professional quality work" and NOT do it for money
(isn't this obvious?---but you need resources!)... aside from the obvious
reality of un and underemployed professionals, there's simply got to be a
way (NOT to capture) but to organize ourselves in formal terms around the
value of artist-workers (a touch trotsky here, i know, even utopian) who
are *not* a part of academe, mla (modern language association), awp, ncte,
etc---by way of opening up these latter organizations, and corresponding
markets of distribution, information, learning, what have you ...
however obvious this may seem, it's surely not obvious in economic terms...
it's precisely the power plays that concern me, and in academe, as well as
throughout the growing multinational empire... i'd also want to complicate
notions of professional expertise---by which i mean to say that it's no
"better" than any form of lay expertise, it's just different... in the
professional context i envision, "lay expertise" in writing terms would
simply translate to writing by folks who don't think of themselves as
writers---and these latter writers would be no "worse" for wear, b/c they
would clearly have their own corresponding professional expertise...
but i really think that we need new professional identity
mechanisms---associations, virtual communities, unions, what have
you---that permit for a much broader range of professional legitimacy than
orthodox structures currently do (james soskoski, whom i mentioned in an
earlier post, uses the term "paraorganizations")... thinking of yourself,
jeff, sheila, ron, luigi-bob and others, it seems to me we need new
(social) structures and organizations that facilitate such diverse
artistic-writing *lives*, and provide us with a formal means, for example,
to get "us" academic writing professionals to start to listen more closely
to what those "outside" of academe (which latter term alone often puts off
many of my non-academic friends!), but with at least as much commitment,
are doing... and mebbe in the process we academics will find ways to alter
our more exclusive habits, and those on the "outside" will find us less
elitist...
just to be clear: i'm not at all talking about a "back to basics"
ANYTHING... and nothing i say is intended to resonate with ANYTHING coming
out of the mouths of gingrich, bennett, & co... in one sense, in fact, i'm
asking for more inclusive, and more blatantly political, theorizing...
just a start, charles, and necessarily fuzzy and conflicted... perhaps
those of you on the "outside" of academe (i'm on the outside too from your
pov's, i know) will hear this as just another territorial ploy, but i'm
really not about such doings... i simply believe, given the situation all
around, that the time has come for more ambitious forms of intellectual
activism... and i think i mself am woefully lacking in this regard, which
is why i'm busy shooting my mouth off about this around t/here...
all best//
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:59:28 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Testimony: Dr. Owens Wiwa
and i guess here's where the activism stuff, wrt my neighborhood doings,
'hits the fan,' so to say...
as a result of daniel's posts re the nigerian-shell situation (VERY
unpleasant reading experience) i've taken to boycotting my local shell gas
station, hyde park shell here in chicago... this station is my local gas
supplier as well as garage---they do good work for a fair price... and they
"know" me (i'm not naive about customer-based relationships, but one seeks
such familiarities in an often alienating world)... and most of the
employees are from jamaica, though i'm not certain who actually owns the
station...
in any case, i'm not going there now, and feeling somehow guilty... but by
way of protesting the shell-nigeria situation... and instead i'm ending up
over at the local mobil... though of course i don't feel "good" about this
either... which is precisely the sort of dilemma we've been conditioned
into accepting, a perpetual choosing twixt relative evils...
anyway: is there any indication at all that shell is responding to public
pressure?...
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:02:08 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
>
>I think I agree with what you're saying here, but I don't think the word
>"hobby" quite does justice. Maybe a passion rather than a profession. Or a
>life rather than a profession.
That old religious term "vocation" serves nicely. Yes, colleagues see it
as a hobby (I'm always baffled by this), and there can be a danger
(depending on how you earn your income) in their realizing how serious it
is. And certain professions make certain kinds of writing problematic
(e.g., explict sexual stuff, if you're a high school teacher or a
university dean).
Time, a sense of colleagues, and finding out what's good to read are
problems, and many thanks to the organizers of this list for helping those
of us without easy access to such things.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:19:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
kevin McGuirK writes lots of smart stuff on p and cs:
this is such a gratifying and hackleraising discussion all around --its the
first time i've really felt tht i could bring my WHole professional self here
--thanks to all, susan schultz, michael greer, ron s, kevin mcg, jeffrey
timmons, aldon the wise, kat la lindberg, dkellog, m la perloff, joe l'amato
and everyone i've left out!
now we're cooking w/ gas/--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 14:48:52 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
> there's simply got to be a
>way (NOT to capture) but to organize ourselves in formal terms around the
>value of artist-workers (a touch trotsky here, i know, even utopian) who
>are *not* a part of academe, mla (modern language association), awp, ncte,
>etc---by way of opening up these latter organizations, and corresponding
>markets of distribution, information, learning, what have you ...
Joe, I really agree with what you're trying to say & do. But my recent
experience on the alternative institutional side (well, not so alternative,
but not academic, rather in the nonprofit artistic world) makes me severely
question the "formal organization" or institutionalization of art on any &
all levels. The best-laid plans of mice & men have a way of going really
haywire where boards of directors & artistic power struggles &
philanthropical goals & means come into the picture. I hate to think this
distrust is going to take me even farther into some outsider status, which
is not what I seek. Just that my idealism, which has held up through my
fourth decade, may be starting to crumble.
>but i really think that we need new professional identity
>mechanisms---associations, virtual communities, unions, what have
>you---that permit for a much broader range of professional legitimacy than
>orthodox structures currently do
Yes, but in line with what I say above, I would want these mechanisms to be
as flexible and informal as possible.
charles
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:53:48 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: James Perez <jmp2p@UVA.PCMAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: renga/collaboration
1.
a few days ago there was a discussion about renga/collaborative poetry. I
heard from a friend (Dan) that Leslie Scallapino and someone else (sorry
forgot the second person) were working on a long collaborative poem. Is it
being done over the net? If so/if not, where can I find it in print or
elsewhere. Thanks.
2.
someone had mentioned Rita Dove, which made me think of Sesame St. (of
course). Hey, why doesn't C. Bernstein get on Sesame and disseminate to the
young people. Better yet Michael Palmer and his daughter(?)/collaborative
partner Sarah
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:09:29 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: Question
At 09:28 AM 12/2/95 EST, H.T. wrote:
>What does MLA stand for?
Modern Language Association, I believe.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:20:43 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Question
>
>What does MLA stand for?
>
Mythic Luggage Anthropomorphized
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:46:23 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
>Any chance that Sheila Murphy and/or Ron Silliman and/or Charles
>Alexander would take a few more valuable moments to tell us a bit
>about how they *do* manage it?
>
>Rachel Loden
>
At one (fairly trivial) level, it's time management. I do 90% of my
writing, maybe more, before 6:00 AM (I work from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM
most days and don't get a chance to get back to anything vaguely
literary or intellectual until the kids are in bed, which is around
9:30 if we're lucky.) Generally I work to midnight. Evenings tend to be
for reading or the telly if I feel brain dead.
At another level, I've found a form that enabled me to construct
materials compiled in relatively short segments. Having children has
cut back on my critical writing fairly significantly, although the
absence of any really good venues for the kinds of pieces I do hasn't
helped any (I have throughout my career often been prodded by specific
assignments). There's no talk series in Philadelphia.
Beyond that, I find the rub of other kinds of human beings that I meet
in my daily work environment enormously useful to my writing and
psychic life, a much broader group than I was ever exposed to at any
educational institution. Also, when I feel gorged from excessive work,
a poem doesn't look like my job, if you know what I mean.
When I have taught, I've counseled students to the fact that the
largest reason X becomes a widely published poet and Y does not may
well be that X has found a way to integrate writing into his/her life.
For many students, school is the way they negotiate that integration
and leaving it throws them. Life is full of incentives to not write.
You really have to have a passion for the process of writing as much as
anything else. I've written virtually every day since I was 10, just
under four decades. As Stein noted, a few sentences a day and it will
add up.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:59:59 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Testimony: Dr. Owens Wiwa
thank you, daniel bouchard, for your forward from dr owens wiwa.--mdamon
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:00:17 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
tom bell, my fellow rengamaniac, writes:
more fundamental issue might be: is there any relation between
poetry and culture? I know I was taught there is but today
I'm not sure what that relation is if it exists. Is there any
relation between 10-yr-olds shooting others for neat jackets
and culture or is this relation to poetry?
tom: check out reg e. gaines' cd "please don't take my air jordans." while
the poem of that title doesn't explicitly theorize its own relationship to
teen-teen murder for commodities, it exists as a strong statement about the
phenomenon, and thru its ironic dedication "to spike and mike and all the
kids who've died" etc, widens the scope of the poem to include a subtextual
analysis/critique of the role of cultural icons (spike lee, mike jordan) who
participate in commodification rites thru appearing in advertizements,
etc.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:00:24 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
ron s rites:
It makes much greater sense, I think, to consider teaching the hobby.
Writing is what I do. Period.
to which i say hurrah, that is the most inspiring thing i've read in a
while.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:53:23 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
charles, you've hit on precisely the reason for my stated ambivalence
regarding the "professional" as i'm provoking same... i can hear it
already---"professional poets?---c'mon joe!"...
but i mean, like, why not?...
really though: i don't have an answer, in short... the best way i know to
deal with such issues is to go 'theoretical' with identity formations and
the like even as one pushes for more solidarity, solidarity predicated on
dissensus as much as consensus... i think there's a distinction to be drawn
twixt political action (what's necessary, i mean) and substantive
intellectual differences... but of course one domain ultimately impacts on
the other, and it's precisely in this space of collision that the problems
(and anxieties) you suggest emerge...
so i guess i'm at a loss here, and could use some help...
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:32:04 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Lisa Samuels <lsr3h@DARWIN.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <199512022120.NAA28101@ix6.ix.netcom.com> from "Ron Silliman" at
Dec 2, 95 01:20:43 pm
according to Ron Silliman:
>
> >
> >What does MLA stand for?
> >
> Mythic Luggage Anthropomorphized
>
Many Languid Anthologizers
More Lively Assertions
Most Literate Avengers
Marked Lateral Artists
My Loves Assembled
&c
lisa s.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 20:00:33 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <199512030032.TAA120190@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU>
My list accumulates...
On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Lisa Samuels wrote:
> according to Ron Silliman:
> >
> > >
> > >What does MLA stand for?
> > >
> > Mythic Luggage Anthropomorphized
> >
>
> Many Languid Anthologizers
> More Lively Assertions
> Most Literate Avengers
> Marked Lateral Artists
> My Loves Assembled
>
> &c
> lisa s.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 20:11:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951202200026.25209C-100000@panix3.panix.com>
On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Alan Sondheim wrote:
> My list accumulates...
>
> On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Lisa Samuels wrote:
>
> > according to Ron Silliman:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >What does MLA stand for?
> > > >
> > > Mythic Luggage Anthropomorphized
> > >
> >
> > Many Languid Anthologizers
> > More Lively Assertions
> > Most Literate Avengers
> > Marked Lateral Artists
> > My Loves Assembled
More Layoffs Ahead
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg Duke University
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program
(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708
FAX (919) 684-6277
"Yexplication is yexploration."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 01:28:47 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: More on poetry and cultural studies
In-Reply-To: <951202170016_42092120@mail04.mail.aol.com>
Maria,
yes, the poetic thrust is clear and direct though while the
cultural tie is vague and loopy - competition:race:violence:race:privilege
advertising: I think this is what I meant.
On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Maria Damon wrote:
> tom bell, my fellow rengamaniac, writes:
>
> more fundamental issue might be: is there any relation between
> poetry and culture? I know I was taught there is but today
> I'm not sure what that relation is if it exists. Is there any
> relation between 10-yr-olds shooting others for neat jackets
> and culture or is this relation to poetry?
>
> tom: check out reg e. gaines' cd "please don't take my air jordans." while
> the poem of that title doesn't explicitly theorize its own relationship to
> teen-teen murder for commodities, it exists as a strong statement about the
> phenomenon, and thru its ironic dedication "to spike and mike and all the
> kids who've died" etc, widens the scope of the poem to include a subtextual
> analysis/critique of the role of cultural icons (spike lee, mike jordan) who
> participate in commodification rites thru appearing in advertizements,
> etc.--md
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 05:11:44 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <74277.1477@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Charles A. on "managing" (fwd)
Charles Alexander sent this to me backchannel, and said that I could
send it on if I thought it of interest to all of POETICS, which I
certainly do. Perhaps he would have wanted me to leave off the first
paragraph, in which his small daughter plays behind him--but I can't
bear to, because we are talking about a life enmeshed in just such
complexities. Thanks, too, to Ron for letting us have a glimpse of
him at what? four, five a.m.? laying down the words. Which is what
he does. What we do. I would encourage anyone to jump in on this
"managing" thread. Maybe it would begin to break down some of the
isolation that leads to "nights of the long knives." Anyway, hope
this (forwarding) works:
>Charles Alexander wrote (in part):
>
>Yes, but there is still the struggle to simply find the time to do the work.
>I admire the way Sheila Murphy manages it, the way Ron Silliman manages it,
>but it still is a daily struggle.
>
>Any chance that Sheila Murphy and/or Ron Silliman and/or Charles
>Alexander would take a few more valuable moments to tell us a bit
>about how they *do* manage it?
>
>Rachel Loden
Rachel -- I don't know that the facts of such managing are all that
interesting, but I'll try. I also don't know if you think the whole list
would be interested in this. If you do, you can either forward it, or ask me
to send it to the list. This was all written on the fly with my 2-year old
behind me wanting me to play with her, so with lots of interruptions. But
that's the way such a life goes.
There was a day in 1984 in Madison Wisconsin when I was complaining about
wanting to move out of Madison & do "my work" virtually all the time, rather
than continuing in about three or four part-time jobs I was doing (teaching
poetry at a local community college's evening classes, teaching through
correspondence for UW-Extension, and being a rare book library assistant,
primarily). A good friend who is now an important part of the Seattle
visual/performance art world, Chris Bruch, just said, "Charles, just do it
-- you'll always find ways to make money." That simple sentence did it for
me. That summer I moved Vandercook printing press & everything to Tucson and
for most of the next ten years wrote, made books, etc. Friends began to come
from east, west, & midwest (everyone loves to go to the desert), & I began
organizing readings, concerts, talks, etc. -- which led me to incorporate
Chax as a nonprofit organization, with a few co-conspirators as board
members. Later we got some people on the board who could donate some money &
help raise some. But at its best Chax was able to pay me a salary of about
12K a year, and that was never regular or consistent. But the work grew and
I did have interns helping and eventually as much as a half-time assistant
(Lisa Bowden, who, when I left Tucson in 1993, began Kore Press). Funds came
from book sales, a few projects for hire, National Endowment for the Arts,
Arizona Commission on the Arts, Tucson/Pima Arts Council, DeGrazia
Foundation, and some individual donors. No individual ever gave more than
$1,000. The biggest grants were from the NEA, $12,000. Once I received a
3-month individual fellowship to do readings and events in downtown Tucson,
$5,000. Never did Chax Press have an annual budget of more than $35,000. I
took on various projects as a free-lancer, including designing ads, logos,
and, occasionally, books -- including books for other literary presses, for
individuals, and in one case for a philanthropic foundation. These books
ranged from letterpress works to works designed on a computer for wider
production and circulation. It was never a very good living, but we
survived. My wife is a visual artist (mostly a painter, but has made some
installations and other large-scale works), and she was selling works. For
most of the years in Tucson we shared a large (3,000 sq. ft.) old warehouse
studio -- sometimes she could pay the rent, sometimes I could, sometimes it
was a combination. These were good years, with lots & lots of good people,
including bringing folks to town like Karen Mac Cormack, Steve McCaffery,
Lyn Hejinian, Leslie Scalapino, Kit Robinson, Lydia Davis, Steve
Nelson-Raney, Thomas Gaudynski, Charles Bernstein, Susan Bee, Beverly
Dahlen, Nathaniel Tarn, Ron Silliman, Daphne Marlatt, Kamau Brathwaite,
Robert Creeley, Nathaniel Mackey, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, and many more --
also presenting local writers like Lisa Cooper, Steven Kranz, Mark Weiss,
Barbara Kingsolver (before she became a famous novelist), Leslie Marmon
Silko, Joy Harjo with her band, and many more. Most of these people were in
Chax Press events (talks, residencies, readings); some came for the Tucson
Poetry Festival, of which I was the executive director (an unpaid position)
for a couple of years, and for which I was on the board of directors for
several years. Tucson was a terrific place to make things happen, and people
there were appreciative, good audiences. We were, for a while, probably the
major alternative to the university of arizona's poetry center, and clearly
presented something different than they did. And I can't say enough good
things about the local community which I came to love & find most
supportive, which included some literary people like Lisa Cooper & Steven
Kranz & Tenney Nathanson & Michael Magoolaghan & Bill Marsh, some book arts
people like Lisa Bowden & Nancy Solomon & Ellen McMahon, as well as music
folks, video artists, lots of visual artists, and more. One of the great
things about it was that it was not cordoned off as writers in one place,
visual artists in another place, composers in another -- it had lots of give
& take among artists.
And my role in it, I would say (since you're asking about how I "managed"),
barely survived, but survived well. How it did so, I'm tempted to say, was
just by willpower -- that I had to make it work. But lots of people helped.
Then when my first daughter was born in 1989, I thought it might not be
possible, and took a job as a children's book editor for a local publisher
-- a job I liked, but which was short-lived because the publisher was losing
money fast. And I was not unhappy to see the job go, and get back to what I
liked doing better and to a schedule, hectic and irregular as it may be,
which suited me. I'm not nearly as disciplined about time as Sheila Murphy
seems to be, and I can't say it got easier with the years, but then my
situation, with a growing family, changed with the years as well.
Before our second daughter was born in 1993, Minnesota Center for Book Arts
came calling -- seemingly out of the blue. I had been recommended, had upon
request provided a resume, and suddenly I was hired, if I wanted the job.
Given the circumstances, a salary over 40K sounded good, and it seemed like
a chance to take my ideas and visions into a larger, more stable
organization in a larger community. This is perhaps the biggest mistake I
made. I was able to accomplish a lot -- but the organization wanted a
manager more than an artist, and neither of us was wholly satisfied. So it
lasted two years, during which Chax didn't get done nearly as much as I
wanted, and I didn't get done nearly as much as I wanted. So now I'm back to
working for myself, building freelance writing & design work into a
business, and who knows how the next page will be written. We want to move
back to Tucson and make it work, but perhaps in different ways, there. It's
a more creative place, at least for me, than is the Twin Cities. I've been
told that I just don't speak midwestern, if you can imagine what that may mean.
So, you ask how I manage it --I've given you a brief history, perhaps more &
different than you wanted. I've managed it with difficult, on the other hand
I think I've managed it as well as I could have, and (mostly) have no regrets.
charles
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:24:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wendy Battin <wjbat@CONNCOLL.EDU>
Subject: mla
>What does MLA stand for?
1. Major Limbic Anxiety
2. Math Loathers Anonymous
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:14:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: mla
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9512031057.C8053-0100000@dsys.cc.conncoll.edu>
Meta-Linguistic Authorities?
Musty Librarians Anonymous?
Mutant Literature Assassins!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 11:29:19 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Susan E. Dunn" <sedunn@S-WORD.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 29 Nov 1995 to 30 Nov 1995
And I quote:
dg> -- Grad students are arrogant brats, for the most part. Not helped by
dg> having undergrad profs treat them like the next hot thing when they
dg> are sophomores -- helps them not do the deep & self-questioning work
dg> they need to do which might include learning to really read closely
dg> and productively. Easier to get at _Villette_ on breastfeeding than
dg> to Zukofsky (but note here the growing amount, some of it good, of
dg> c.s. work on Stein). But this is a professional problem, one the
dg> "profession" itself and profs need to correct in terms of their
dg> professional/personal relations with students, and less a problem
dg> of the "method" of c.s. I've yet to see an instance of a probing,
dg> productive, provocative paper on just about any subject that won't
dg> make it into one of the 20 or 30 top-flight journals, many of which
dg> rarely refuse papers due to "subject matter"
dg> (counterexamples?). If that's hegemony I'll live with it.
dg> --
dg> dgolumbia@iddis.com
dg> David Golumbia
Excuse me if I have missed the irony in the diatribe above. Perhaps
David Golumbia was impersonating an insufferabe prig for the sake of
humor. But as a recently emancipated "brat" (who was never treated as
the next hot thing that's for damn sure and who never wrote on
breastfeeding in Villette, but the example is an interesting one
regarding the speaker's anxieties about scholarship and nineteenth
century women writers) you'll have to forgive me if I am having
trouble reading the tone of the missive above. Maybe I need more
training in close-reading to get at the gist of all this, but I think
a lack of self-questioning is a shortcoming of more than just
Golumbia's arrogant brat grad students. Of course, the most obvious
statement to be made here is that the biggest "professional problem"
we have is this kind of despicable pedagogy. I don't necessarily
assume that this represents the poetics list in its entirety but my
experience has shown that it does represent a pervading attitude about
students (undergraduate and graduate alike) and the scholarship they
produce.
--
Susan E. Dunn sedunn@s-word.stanford.edu
"The chief and primary cause of this very rapid increase of
nervousness is modern civilization which is distinguished
by five characteristics: steam power, the periodical press, the
telegraph, the sciences, and the mental activity of women.
- George Beard "American Nervousness" 1881
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:21:26 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
Mouthing loaded assignments
Meeting lucky advertisements
Modern lovers, already married
Let arguments melt like air...
Maybe Lucinda acknowledges
Mystified loose action
Macho longing activates
(more luggage again)
My losses answer madness
Like avalanches making lunch
As martyrs leave apartments
(Misery Loves Albany)
Most likely actors
langourous all morning
lasting arguments matter
listening anger mounts
limpid afternoon
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:03:56 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Stephen Galen Cope <scope@UCSCB.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
More Literary Antagonism?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:17:13 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
Months Lie Angularly
Mention Lacan Approvingly
Meatmarkets Love Artists
Magnify Libido Abstinance
but remember
Malvolio Looks Absurd.....
Mingle Like Alchemy!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:01:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
joe amato wrote:
>>it's clear to me now what the corporate
>>educational imperatives of the 21st. century
>>will likely be centered around (in the case
>>of my campus, it's motorola that's doing
>>a good portion of the pushing).
I'm curious about motorola's "desire." What is a good student or a good
matriculated student in their terms?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 22:49:13 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
as we consider how to institutionalize our selves/work, thot this
might be ov interest...
begin forwarded message:
*****
THE SEVEN BY NINE SQUARES DISSOLVE
~The Seven by Nine Squares~, Neoist Web site at
<http://fub46.zedat.fu-berlin.de:8080/~cantsin> will cease to exist on
March 24, 1996.
As you read this, ~The Seven by Nine Squares~ have already begun to
dissolve; documents and references are daily being crippled or erased until
the site has disappeared.
The E-Mail address <cantsin@zedat.fu-berlin.de> will remain functional and
revert to use by its former owners. Before March 24, 1996, an installation
package mirroring ~The Seven by Nine Squares~ in its current state can be
obtained upon request, either by FTP or on three Macintosh disks. Mail
delivery is free for those who wish to install mirrors or mutants in the
Internet. After March 24, 1996, a copy of this text will be mailed to
anyone who writes concerning ~The Seven by Nine Squares~.
MERCILESS MEMORY
"Arkhe" names at once the commencement and the commandment. "Archive" comes
from the Greek "arkheion": initially a house, the residence of the superior
magistrates, the archons. On account of their publicly recognized
authority, it is at their home that official documents are filed. The
archons are first of all the documents' guardians. Their house marks an
institutional passage from the private to the public. With such a status,
the documents are only kept and classified under the title of the archive
by virtue of a privileged topology: To shelter itself and sheltered, to
conceal itself.
Perhaps, nothing in the entire prehistory of humans is more terrible and
uncannier than their mnemotechnics. "You burn something in to keep it in
mind: only those things which never cease to hurt will remain in memory" -
it's an axiom of the most ancient (and, unfortunately, most persistent)
psychology on earth. It always meant torture, blood and victims when humans
considered it necessary to construct themselves a memory; the most horrible
victims, the most unspeakable mutilations, the most gruesome rites in all
religious cults - all that is rooted in an instinct which discovered pain
as the most powerful tool of mnemonics.
"The spanking machine", she explained, "is a brandnew achievement of our
time, or, to say it better, our culture. Once plugged to electricity, it
will get in immediate motion. Of course, you have to adjust in advance the
number, the efficacy and the kind of blows. Once a lesson is fixed, it will
be taught under any circumstance: and that's the great advantage! Mercy is
made technically impossible."
The cruelty of the alphabet has nothing to do with willful or "natural"
violence. It is the dynamics of culture itself, a culture which
materialized in the bodies it inscribes and manipulates. This culture is
not an ideology, but violently introduces desire into production and
production into desire. For death, punishment, suffering are desired. They
turn humans or their organs into parts of the social machine. And if
"writing" is inscription right into the flesh, it means indeed that speech
presupposes writing and that it's this cruel system of inscribed signs
which enables humans to use language and gives them a memory of words and
speech.
MONTY CANTSIN
*****
end forwarded message
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 23:58:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joshua N Schuster <jnschust@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: sponse to Ron
Ron Silliman wrote:
>
> At another level, I've found a form that enabled me to construct
> materials compiled in relatively short segments. Having children has
> cut back on my critical writing fairly significantly, although the
> absence of any really good venues for the kinds of pieces I do hasn't
> helped any (I have throughout my career often been prodded by specific
> assignments). There's no talk series in Philadelphia.
Not yet in Philadelphia. But the venue is in the work. Look for such
an inclusive series at Upenn in fall '96, run by students with the valuable
help of some friends.
-joshua
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 00:12:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kenneth Sherwood <V001PXFU@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: EPCLIVE EVENT / Monday Night
EPCLIVE will host its third online event this Monday night
from 6:30pm EST to 8:00pm. It's our first experiment at
an "OPEN FIELD" session, which we intend to be a collaborative
improvisation. Please feel free to join in; there's no
required reading to prepare for this seminar!
Specifics are available at http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/epclive
or you can query me sherwood@acsu.buffalo.edu or Loss Glazier
(lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu) personally. Be sure to include
a catchy subject line (like "I want my EPCLIVE" so we answer
in time for the event.
As always, results of interest will be conveyed to the assembly.
____________________________________________________________________________
Kenneth Sherwood | Dept English
v001pxfu@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | 618 Clemens Hall
sherwood@acsu.cc.buffalo.edu | SUNY @ Buffalo
|_______Buffalo, NY 14214___________
RIF/T mail: e-poetry@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Electronic Poetry Center (Web address):
gopher://writing.upenn.edu/hh/internet/library/e-journals/ub/rift
_____________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 00:23:35 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kenneth Sherwood <V001PXFU@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Professional poetry
I recall a friend (from Spain / France?) new to the U.S. and still
reeling with idiomatic-lag remarking on how strange it seemed that
Americans primary social icebreaker was "what do you do?" (which
of course meant: What's your job? and Do you make more than I do?
and Is it worth my time to play golf with you?)
I'm not quite comfortable thinking of poetry as a hobby any more
than I'd want to deny the clear fact of the labor-for-money most
of us are engaged in. But there does seem to be a 'lack' in the
language and modes of living if the choices are so clear cut.
k.s.
____________________________________________________________________________
Kenneth Sherwood | Dept English
v001pxfu@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | 618 Clemens Hall
sherwood@acsu.cc.buffalo.edu | SUNY @ Buffalo
|_______Buffalo, NY 14214___________
RIF/T mail: e-poetry@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Electronic Poetry Center (Web address):
gopher://writing.upenn.edu/hh/internet/library/e-journals/ub/rift
_____________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 08:41:51 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jeff Hansen <Jeff_Hansen@BLAKE.PVT.K12.MN.US>
Organization: The Blake School
Subject: Poetry and the academy
I hope I'm not getting overly technical in my use of words, but here goes.
A lot of people have commented on my use of the word "hobby" to describe my
writing interests as opposed to what I do to make a living. I consider "hobby"
to be a more important and valued word than"profession." I know so few people
who love their work; hobbies by definition are acts of love.
Obviously, my associations with the word "hobby" are idiosyncratic. I guess
most people associate it with putzing. If you like, please substitue Chax's
"passion" for my "hobby."
Take care,
jeff
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:16:59 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <01HYDT3PJITU8Y7M1X@cnsvax.albany.edu>
On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Chris Stroffolino wrote:
> Months Lie Angularly
> Mention Lacan Approvingly
> Meatmarkets Love Artists
> Magnify Libido Abstinance
> but remember
> Malvolio Looks Absurd.....
> Mingle Like Alchemy!
My friend Kevin Farley says it stands for
Many Lemmings Assemble
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg Duke University
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program
(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708
FAX (919) 684-6277
"Yexplication is yexploration."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:31:26 EST
Reply-To: dgolumbia@iddis.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Golumbia <GOLUMBIA@IDDIS.IDDIS.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 29 Nov 1995 to 30 Nov 1995
> Susan E. Dunn sedunn@s-word.stanford.edu wrote:
>
> Excuse me if I have missed the irony in the diatribe above. Perhaps
> David Golumbia was impersonating an insufferabe prig for the sake of
> humor. But as a recently emancipated "brat" (who was never treated as
> the next hot thing that's for damn sure and who never wrote on
> breastfeeding in Villette, but the example is an interesting one
> regarding the speaker's anxieties about scholarship and nineteenth
> century women writers) you'll have to forgive me if I am having
> trouble reading the tone of the missive above. Maybe I need more
> training in close-reading to get at the gist of all this, but I think
> a lack of self-questioning is a shortcoming of more than just
> Golumbia's arrogant brat grad students. Of course, the most obvious
> statement to be made here is that the biggest "professional problem"
> we have is this kind of despicable pedagogy. I don't necessarily
> assume that this represents the poetics list in its entirety but my
> experience has shown that it does represent a pervading attitude about
> students (undergraduate and graduate alike) and the scholarship they
> produce.
I probably deserved the "insufferable prig" for my "arrogant brat,"
so I will take the criticism at face value. But Ms. Dunn's comments
make no sense to me unless she thinks I'm a professor, which I'm not.
I was talking about my experience of grad school as a student -- the
way so many of the students who "succeed" do so not by challenging
themselves but by specifically doing what the profs want them to do.
I'm not sure how that is a "priggish" criticism, or a "priggish" attitude toward
students, nor how much of the passage Ms. Dunn quoted could be
termed a "despicable pedagogy" or any pedagogy at all. I
thought many of my peers got by on networking not interesting
thinking. That seems pretty clear to me from my original message. How
is the *recommendation* to do interesting, challenging, self-critical work
"the biggest 'professional problem' we have"??
I agree that too few professors do that kind of work as well.
Also, the Villette example came from a posting of Marjorie
Perloff's, so I guess it's her anxieties Ms. Dunn might want to
analyze. I just thought it politic to keep to the same example other
people had been using.
--
dgolumbia@iddis.com
David Golumbia
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:48:17 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
bill, 'fore i try to answer that question, lemme make one thing clear: i
understand that most of the students i teach (esp. given that i'm currently
teaching half-time in a prof. writing program) go on to work for corporate
america, or entrepreneurial america in any case... that doesn't prevent me
from having my students ask the same ideological-institutional questions i
ask mself (about my institution)... i mean, i don't mount some sort of
postindustrial-capitalist critique in my classroom w/o a corresponding
critique of my own contested site-practice... this way *nobody* appears to
enjoy a free lunch, and i'm not "saving souls" in the classroom... i think
it's important to complicate the institutional in general, not simply to
decry how nasty a profession "engineering" or "accounting" is (albeit there
may always be specific sorts of jobs in any profession that i will continue
to have difficulty justifying, and mebbe even specific professions)...
anyway, one way to describe what i've heard motorola is looking for in the
late nineties (it's been PUT this way at times in meetings on my campus, no
shit) is to relate a little incident that occurred shortly after i came to
iit (and note that one of the two most powerful folks on our board of
trustees is bob galvin, son of the founder and former ceo of motorola)...
since this is a bit off-the-wall, mebbe it'll do for an *initial* sense of
what's going on at motorola vis-a-vis illinois institute of technology...
on a saturday back in fall of 92, the entire iit faculty was asked to
attend a motorola training seminar out in the west chicago suburbs, at
motorola corporate headquarters... this seminar was designed to inculcate
us in motorola's corporate quality control program, which is known in
shorthand as QCEL--- quality/creativity/ethics/ leadership (in conjunction
with their '6-sigma' approach to standards---'sigma' as in standard of
deviation)... QCEL is essentially motorola's reworking of TQM (total
quality management)---and let's be certain to give credit where credit it
due... motorola is by all accounts a highly successful corporation, this
post coming to you courtesy (in part) of their 68030 chip... they have a
reputation for providing free and frequent training for all their
employees...
i might mention that, at iit, the only place writing per se is justified
under the QCEL scheme is under L---leadership... i assume the underlying
logic here is a matter of words/communication = power etc... however benign
or malignant...
i only wish i had the talent to describe what it felt like to see
internationally renowned scholar-scientists being instructed in the wonders
of convergent-divergent thinking... quite a sight... and some made it
absolutely clear precisely what they thought of such instruction---WHILE
THERE...
QCEL fever struck iit shortly thereafter---forms, reports and the like,
yknow, sop for bureaucrazies... rumor had it 'we' were indulging galvin in
the hope that he would dig deep into his pockets and throw something like
$10 mil our way... never happened (and in fact QCEL mutated into a million
dollar "national commission" and, once our board refused to cough up the
bread to offset our "losses," the present crisis management strategies
we're currently experiencing)... in any case, the coup de grace of the QCEL
affair was galvin having a copy of a book he wrote, _the idea of ideas_,
distributed gratis to all faculty... it appeared in my mailbox with no
warning whatever...
let's have a look at it...
title page (** = boldface):
THE *IDEA* OF IDEAS
BY ROBERT W. GALVIN
Motorola University Press [!]
Schaumburg, Illinois
1991
the *idea*, i know!... to give you some idea of the "quality" of the
production etc., i read from the verso of the title page the following:
Special Limited Edition published in April 1991
by Motorola University Press
Typeset in Perpetua
by Paul Baker Typography, Inc., Evanston, Illinois.
Five thousand copies printed [our faculty numbered at that time around 300]
by Congress Printing Company, Chicago, Illinois.
Soft cover in Mohawk Artemis, Navy Blue; cloth cover
is Arrestox B, B48650. End sheets are French Speckletone,
Briquette; text stock is Mohawk Superfine, Soft White.
Binding by Zonne Book Binders, Inc., Chicago, Illinois.
Design by Hayward Black & Company, Evanston, Illinois.
Illustration on page 6 by Noli Novak.
Quotation on cover by Robert W. Galvin.
this latter quotation, indicative of the "quality" of the writing in
general, follows:
"We can and should apply consciously, confidently, purposely and
frequently, the simpler, satisfying, appropriate steps to create more and
then better ideas."
you can understand why i keep this item, no?...
anyway, a more direct way to answer your question, w/o acquiescence to the
various forms of lip-service (humanities) faculty here are subject to on a
daily basis, would probably be to describe the large NOT around which
educational 'training' as currently reconceived will be centered... but
i'll let it go for now, i'm already going on way too long in this post...
suffice to say that it has all to do with "satisfying" the student
"customer," an educational marketplace in which desires and aspirations are
increasingly influenced by successful corporations such as motorola... if
you like, i'll babble on about the current situation wrt integrating a new
engineering "interprofessional project" into the undergrad. curriculum, and
how this will require a sacrifice of x-hours of humanities credit, to the
extent that we in english-history-philosophy must now try to figure out how
what we do will 'fit into' a corporate-conceived undergrad. design project
led by a graduate student recruited from local industry into our new
master's in engineering program (NOT master of science, mind you) so as to
offset the costs of a "mentor" blah blah blah... the gist of all of this is
that there is less institutional space in which to conduct critical
thinking activities (re process, context, etc.), and we're left presumably
to dawdle over outdated conceptions of composition instruction
(comma-splice detection) or old-style humanistic pursuits (book reports)...
but i'm perhaps a bit cynical at this point, i know...
hope this helps, bill...
all best//
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:59:33 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Sunday Morning Service Poems
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
For Charles Smith, and al que quiere:
Recent poems "appropriate for Sunday church services": Richard Wilbur's
"Peter, " "Matthew VIII, 28ff," "A Christian Hymn," and "Proof."
Just had to get that little piece of perversity out of my system.
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:09:21 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951204101631.27070C-100000@godzilla4.acpub.duke.edu>
More Like A
Mutually-Licked-Asshole
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:44:08 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 29 Nov 1995 to 30 Nov 1995
thank you susan dunn--md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:25:31 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
I'm not Sheila or Ron or Chas. but
>
>At another level, I've found a form that enabled me to construct
>materials compiled in relatively short segments....
is certainly a useful strategy, and not only for time management.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:14:12 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
TQM is taking over at a lot of places, not just Motorola-influenced IIT.
When Donna Shalala was pres. or whatever of U. of Wisconsin she was a
devout TQM devotee; it's sweeping public schools (under the guise of
"outcomes based/continuous improvement") and will no doubt be coming to a
higher educational estalishment near you if it hasn't already arrived.
Like behaviorism, it is impossible to argue with -- "what's wrong with
continuous improvement?" is one question you will be asked. Of course the
problematic nature of the notion of "improvement" is just one many things
that escapes the TQM devotees' attention, but (tautologically) they don't
notice this, even when it's pointed out.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:29:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Y
>>Yexplication is yexploration
ylang ylang?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:46:53 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: David Columbia
DavidG,
From your post i assumed you were the chair of the english dept at Columbia,
but should have known better from the com com at the end of your name.
Sounds a little like my experience in grady scholl as ucsd. However, there
were lots of cult studs folks (femmo-marxie-post toasters) who were good and
provacative who didn't exactly kiss ass but lots of new historicist wieners
who did. Any my hero John Granger, who was neither nor, has he got a job?
The most brilliant poetry advocate and scholar i've ever come across.
Someone ought to get him tenured.
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:52:16 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
At 1:25 PM 12/4/95, Judy Roitman wrote:
>I'm not Sheila or Ron or Chas. but
>
>>
>>At another level, I've found a form that enabled me to construct
>>materials compiled in relatively short segments....
>
>is certainly a useful strategy, and not only for time management.
I don't know. I've been compiling poems from notebook materials for a few
years and I find it pretty draining. All these _things_ that don't always
accumulate.. Of course it could just be a failure to sort. The
throughcomposed poem appeals to me strongly now not because I don't have
the time to write, but because it almost always seems less tentative and
grand than the collaged poem (please read "my" for "the" in this sentence).
another poet walking a beat (and not a beat poet),
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:14:18 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Poetry and the academy
Anthologised Beatles (II) reminds me, Jeff Hansen, to do what you do
with writing as "hobby", "all you need is love." By the way, anyone
see the original hand-written Paul ms of" I want to (wanna) hold
yr hand" in the British Library in a showcase among their Beatliana?
The last chorus ends "I want to hold your thing." "Thing?" Hey,
Paul! best of uncensored luck
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:21:14 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
no, no, Joe Amato, say MORE not less abt this v intrsting biz of
Motorola & Ideas. I've printed out and circulated via department
staff common room this a.m. this seems to me where the real action is
now, where the corporate money meets the academy...
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:03:17 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa Januzzi <Marisa.Januzzi@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sunday Morning Service Poems
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95120411220268@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
I'd like to add almost anything by Anne Porter to the list!
Regarding the "collaged" vs. "composed through" methods of doing poetry--
has anyone seen Michael Davidson's piece in Marjorie Perloff's
collection, POST-MODERN GENRES? He discusses a piece by Oppen, setting
it in the larger archival context of the notebooks, and argues (this is a
hasty paraphrase) that some works might thoughtfully be considered
'Notebook Poems," i.e. a poem-including-a-notebook.
Depending on the leavings and composition habits of the writer, exploring
the genesis of a text this way seems to be an interesting way of (among other
things) situating the development of an aesthetic in suggestively
contingent material or (gulp) biographical circumstances... I'm sure even
"composed through" texts can be read this way, depending on the archival
record... so Jordan, be sure you include all those cancelled rent checks
and lists of books to steal in the adjacent leaves of yr notebooks...
--Marisa
(Mina Loy Appears?)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:13:35 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa Januzzi <Marisa.Januzzi@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sunday Morning Service Poems
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95120411220268@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
On a different topic:
Has anyone on the list ever participated in or tried to administer a
"service learning" class-- one which combines literary and theoretical
readings with some concrete opportunity for students to pursue a volunteer
project of some sort, implications of which could be integrated into the
student's approach to the academic material (and vice versa)? All this
talk about cultural studies and poetry, for instance, has been making me
think there must be some way of integrating studying/theorizing it, with
some practical experience of how various populations actually conceive of
it...
I guess I am trying to come up with 'altruistic' projects (such as might be
associated with a class called 'Literature and Hunger')-- more
than say, working up a Hallmark internship... If you have to be a poet
both on &off the page, how do you reflect meaningfully on what that
means, or get students to do that, under auspices of a class? ----hmmm...
Marisa
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:32:23 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
>TQM is taking over at a lot of places, not just Motorola-influenced IIT.
>
>When Donna Shalala was pres. or whatever of U. of Wisconsin she was a
>devout TQM devotee; it's sweeping public schools (under the guise of
>"outcomes based/continuous improvement") and will no doubt be coming to a
>higher educational estalishment near you if it hasn't already arrived.
>
>Like behaviorism, it is impossible to argue with -- "what's wrong with
>continuous improvement?" is one question you will be asked. Of course the
>problematic nature of the notion of "improvement" is just one many things
>that escapes the TQM devotees' attention, but (tautologically) they don't
>notice this, even when it's pointed out.
Odd how these things move, as I actually think TQM is on its way out as the
management strategy of choice in the American corporate world, replaced by
more eclectic theories which supposedly aim to empower each individual to be
a fairly independent entrepreneur within the corporation, as articulated by
such as Tom Peters. But now TQM is taking over the academic world? beware
. . .
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:27:03 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the academy
"I want to hold your thing."
Paul was always lost for words -
How about
everything depends upon the little red thing
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:55:19 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sunday Morning Service Poems
Gee thanks Alan... I'll try to keep that in mind!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:48:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: MLA EVENTS
In-Reply-To: <951204154649_44073320@mail06.mail.aol.com> from "Bill Luoma" at
Dec 4, 95 03:46:53 pm
RE: MLA
We (Jerome Rothenberg & Pierre Joris) would like to invite all
POETICS-listers & lurkers who happen to be in Chicago during MLA
to 2 events:
1) The ACLA (American Comparative Literature Association)'s party,
co-sponsored by the University of California Press, to celebrate POEMS
FOR THE MILLENNIUM: THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA BOOK OF MODERN &
POSTMODERN POETRY (edited by yourstrulies). [This is not a cash bar as
mistakenly announced in the MLA big brown mag.] It will take place on
THURSDAY, DECEMBER 28, 5:15 TO 6:30 P.M. IN CHICAGO BALLROOM C OF THE
MARRIOTT.
2) A session to mark the publication of POEMS FOR THE MILLENNIUM.A
panel chaired by Eugene Eoyang and including Jerome Rothenberg, Pierre
Joris & Nathaniel Mackey will discuss THE MAKING OF A GLOBAL ANTHOLOGY
on Saturday, December 30, 12 noon to 1:15 p.m. in the Los
Angeles-Miami room of the Marriott.
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:35:04 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Testimony: Dr. Owens Wiwa
In-Reply-To: <199512021559.JAA08425@charlie.acc.iit.edu>
On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Joe Amato wrote:
> in any case, i'm not going there now, and feeling somehow guilty... but by
> way of protesting the shell-nigeria situation... and instead i'm ending up
> over at the local mobil... though of course i don't feel "good" about this
> either... which is precisely the sort of dilemma we've been conditioned
> into accepting, a perpetual choosing twixt relative evils...
Ride a bike.
Jeffrey Timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:54:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sunday Morning Service Poems
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95120411220268@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
how about stevens' "Sunday Moring"?
Jeffrey Timmons
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Alan Golding wrote:
> Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
> Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
>
> For Charles Smith, and al que quiere:
>
> Recent poems "appropriate for Sunday church services": Richard Wilbur's
> "Peter, " "Matthew VIII, 28ff," "A Christian Hymn," and "Proof."
>
> Just had to get that little piece of perversity out of my system.
>
> Alan
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:46:52 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
In-Reply-To: <9512032303.AA16544@ucscb.UCSC.EDU>
MLA: Mutant Luddite Anomalies
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:58:58 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Memo from Executive Secretary of the MLA
In-Reply-To: <199512040458.UAA17916@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
We no longer stand for that. Please note and correct.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:09:41 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the academy
Mark Roberts wrote:
> "I want to hold your thing."
>
>Paul was always lost for words -
>
>How about
>
>everything depends upon the little red thing
"so much"
for quoting WCW.
But you're sure right about Paul one of the four worst Beatles of all time.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:40:20 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Stephen Galen Cope <scope@UCSCB.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sunday Morning Service Poems
Marisa Januzzi:
Has anyone on the list ever participated in or tried to administer a
"service learning" class-- one which combines literary and theoretical
readings with some concrete opportunity for students to pursue a volunteer
project of some sort, implications of which could be integrated into the
student's approach to the academic material (and vice versa)?
I'm not sure I'm entirely clear on what this would entail, but I'll
attempt a response...
I'm currently teaching a course on "Sound and
Language" -- essentially a course on the poetics of music and the music
of poetics -- for which one of the requiremnets is a "presentation/per-
formance," meaning that on a given day a given student is basically
given the stage and asked to either lead the class discussion, present
a lecture, or give a performance in reference to a particular reading
or set of readings. As the syllabus is quite broad -- poetry, poetics,
music, performance studies, even some new histroicism -- students are
encouraged to integrate a range of discourse(s) into their work. This
means that as often as not we're getting lecture/ performance/ discussion
in a single presentation.
This has been important because a large portion
of the course is involved in both the close reading and cultural critique
of the texts in question (Coolidge, Cage, Braxton, Mackey, Baraka). Central
to the course is an insistence that all 'creative' work exist within a nexus
of other works, artifacts, ideas, ideologies etc. This is basic concept
to most, but certainly not one that's put into practice in most workshops
at the undergraduate level. This means that the 'creative writing' students
enrolled in the course are pressed to examine their own practice as cultural
work -- to examine what it does at the cultural level and not merely at the
mechanical level. At the same time, those students used to expository and
discursive approaches to literature have been pressed to engage with the
work -- to riff off the work -- in ways that are creative and productive
rather than simply interpretive and exhaustive.
I've yet to receive any final papers (due next week), but the emphasis there
is generally the same. One hopes for the best...
-Stephen Cope
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 02:06:38 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Pro's & hobbyists
"That old religious term "vocation" serves nicely."
Just wanted to say yes! & ...thanks to Judy Roitman's take on alternatives
to the writer as "pro" ... & whoever it was (Charles Alexander?) who
mentioned passion over that horrible IRS term, "hobby."
best,
Charles Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 03:13:09 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: James Perez <jmp2p@UVA.PCMAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: service classes?
As an undergraduate I was in a class on the Contemporary Short Story that was
taught as both a Creative Writing and Literature class. We had to respond to
each weeks reading in a critical (short "essay") or creative way. It worked
very well, in that the members of the class were forced in to different ways
of thinking about text. For instance, there was a story we read (I forget
the story) that ended with the writer turning and asking the reader a
question, and we discussed the possibility of that ending being created by
the writer having no other "plot" options at the time. Not normally
something you would discuss in a "lit" class.
I think this kind of class works very well in opening new ways of thinking
about texts and writing.
Remember in high school when you had to write new endings to stories you
read? I think that can be a highly complex process and a good way to become
intimate with a text (and a great way to get some of these writers off the
pedastels they've been put on), so even if it is looked at as juvenile we
should do it more. Renga is similar to this in a back and forth way, I
guess.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:45:54 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Luce Irigaray, CPA (fwd)
Gotta love this! Gab. (on my birthday too!)
>[Alleged] Wall Street Journal Reports IRS Desire to Tax Sex -- Even in Marriage
<...>
>Date: 28 Nov 1995 18:54:51 -0800
<...>
>"Sex" maybe Become IRS Target
>by the Staff of the Wall Street Journal
>
>Raising new questions about the tax status of conungal relations practiced by
>millions of citizens, the Internal Revenue Service said that the general
>policy that "sex" is freely given in the context of relationships subjects
>
>While the IRS didn't hold that sex itself is taxable, it did say that most
>conjugal relationships are based on de facto economic quid pro quos, and
>therefore trigger a tax liability celibate individuals wouldn't otherwise
>face. According to the "technical advice memorandum," which only applies to
>one couple who was being audited, which the IRS didn't identify, "Sex has
>historically been a commodity that was either sold or bartered or stolen. As
>such it has a demonstrable cash value, which can be quantified according to
>accepted market criteria. ... According to one tax
>commisioner, who preferred to remain anonymous, "Sex is seldom freely given
>with no strings attached by one party to the next. The monetary value of
>those "strings" comprises compensation which can be quantified and therefore
>taxable."
>
>It is unclear exactly how IRS would propose to tax sex. The decision raises
>many highly complicated administrative problems, tax specialists say. Among
>these: how to value the benefits ...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:02:57 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: MLA EVENTS
>RE: MLA
>
>We (Jerome Rothenberg & Pierre Joris) would like to invite all
>POETICS-listers & lurkers who happen to be in Chicago during MLA
>to 2 events:
>
>1) The ACLA (American Comparative Literature Association)'s party,
>co-sponsored by the University of California Press, to celebrate POEMS
>FOR THE MILLENNIUM: THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA BOOK OF MODERN &
>POSTMODERN POETRY (edited by yourstrulies). [This is not a cash bar as
>mistakenly announced in the MLA big brown mag.] It will take place on
>THURSDAY, DECEMBER 28, 5:15 TO 6:30 P.M. IN CHICAGO BALLROOM C OF THE
>MARRIOTT.
>
>2) A session to mark the publication of POEMS FOR THE MILLENNIUM.A
>panel chaired by Eugene Eoyang and including Jerome Rothenberg, Pierre
>Joris & Nathaniel Mackey will discuss THE MAKING OF A GLOBAL ANTHOLOGY
>on Saturday, December 30, 12 noon to 1:15 p.m. in the Los
>Angeles-Miami room of the Marriott.
>
>=======================================================================
>Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
>Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
>SUNY Albany |
>Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
>tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
> email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
>joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
>=======================================================================
Gosh, Pierre--sounds like you will actually try to deal with some poetry at
the MLA. Oddly enough I still belong to the thing after all these
years--the health insurance is a bargain. Having attgended at least six of
them and done maybe five panels and other presentations, I can only say the
MLA is usable only for job-hunters, potential employers and would-be
trendies. I hope people attend your presentation., since anything
innovative is a rarity there. If it were run like the CAA (College Art
Association) it would be quite a different matter.
Somehow I wonder why there is so much shop and small talk on this network.
Who has time for that? Can it be that the English Profs are not aware of
the difference between talking about poetry and poetics? I see very little
material on poetics on this network, but a great deal of professional
boohooing. These laments about not having time to write poetry--anyone who
vents such laments is quite incapable of writing worthwhile poetry. At the
very least I would suggest that such a person reread the second intro to
the Lyrical Ballads. Once when John Cage complained to Arnold Schoenberg
that he was asking too much of him and his students, Schoenberg asked how
many hours there are in a day. Cazge said, "Twenty four." "Nonsense," said
Schoenberg. "There are as many hours in a day as you put there." I left
academia because I couldn't get my work done (including scholarly work),
and in spite of my poverty and instability, I have no regrets.
American poetry is, as you know, quite backwards, and it will continue to
be so as long as literature programs are dominated by the Boohoo Brigade.
Sincerely
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:04:59 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Sunday Morning Service Poems
>Marisa Januzzi:
>
>
>Has anyone on the list ever participated in or tried to administer a
>"service learning" class-- one which combines literary and theoretical
>readings with some concrete opportunity for students to pursue a volunteer
>project of some sort, implications of which could be integrated into the
>student's approach to the academic material (and vice versa)?
>
>
>I'm not sure I'm entirely clear on what this would entail, but I'll
>attempt a response...
>
>I'm currently teaching a course on "Sound and
>Language" -- essentially a course on the poetics of music and the music
>of poetics -- for which one of the requiremnets is a "presentation/per-
>formance," meaning that on a given day a given student is basically
>given the stage and asked to either lead the class discussion, present
>a lecture, or give a performance in reference to a particular reading
>or set of readings. As the syllabus is quite broad -- poetry, poetics,
>music, performance studies, even some new histroicism -- students are
>encouraged to integrate a range of discourse(s) into their work. This
>means that as often as not we're getting lecture/ performance/ discussion
>in a single presentation.
>
>This has been important because a large portion
>of the course is involved in both the close reading and cultural critique
>of the texts in question (Coolidge, Cage, Braxton, Mackey, Baraka). Central
>to the course is an insistence that all 'creative' work exist within a nexus
>of other works, artifacts, ideas, ideologies etc. This is basic concept
>to most, but certainly not one that's put into practice in most workshops
>at the undergraduate level. This means that the 'creative writing' students
>enrolled in the course are pressed to examine their own practice as cultural
>work -- to examine what it does at the cultural level and not merely at the
>mechanical level. At the same time, those students used to expository and
>discursive approaches to literature have been pressed to engage with the
>work -- to riff off the work -- in ways that are creative and productive
>rather than simply interpretive and exhaustive.
>
>I've yet to receive any final papers (due next week), but the emphasis there
>is generally the same. One hopes for the best...
>
>
>-Stephen Cope
Studenbts students students--
This is supposed to be about poetics. Cut the shop talk baby and get down
to business.
Sincerely
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:07:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Pro's & hobbyists
>"That old religious term "vocation" serves nicely."
>
>Just wanted to say yes! & ...thanks to Judy Roitman's take on alternatives
>to the writer as "pro" ... & whoever it was (Charles Alexander?) who
>mentioned passion over that horrible IRS term, "hobby."
>
>best,
>Charles Smith
Hobby poetry? Hobby horse, perhaps Uncle Toby's hobby horse. A better word
wouild be "amateur," something done for love instead of profit.
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:13:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: service classes?
>As an undergraduate I was in a class on the Contemporary Short Story that was
>taught as both a Creative Writing and Literature class. We had to respond to
>each weeks reading in a critical (short "essay") or creative way. It worked
>very well, in that the members of the class were forced in to different ways
>of thinking about text. For instance, there was a story we read (I forget
>the story) that ended with the writer turning and asking the reader a
>question, and we discussed the possibility of that ending being created by
>the writer having no other "plot" options at the time. Not normally
>something you would discuss in a "lit" class.
>
>I think this kind of class works very well in opening new ways of thinking
>about texts and writing.
>
>Remember in high school when you had to write new endings to stories you
>read? I think that can be a highly complex process and a good way to become
>intimate with a text (and a great way to get some of these writers off the
>pedastels they've been put on), so even if it is looked at as juvenile we
>should do it more. Renga is similar to this in a back and forth way, I
>guess.
Isn't this the old "Daily Thermes" approach, which Baker used sixty years
ago? It was still a-going when I was at Yale in the fifties and is still
used, as you say, on the high schoool level in some places. Indeed it is
good. But it is a pedagogical question.
How you teach is a different question from how you do or what you or anyone
else's work EXISTS. How does a poem exist once it has left you? Is it the
same work when it is typeset in Caslon or handwritten? How does it exist in
the memory? Who are you when you have done it? Those are the questions
which should be addressed, not the moonings of students who would rather be
somewhere else (who can blame them) whom you are charged with teachi8ng
your skills in spite of themselves.
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:45:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Pro's and hobbyists
In-Reply-To: <v01530501ace9ac4b5ef2@[205.161.119.32]> from "Dick Higgins" at
Dec 5, 95 08:02:57 am
Yea Dick Higgins.
Maybe the profs should start up their own list where they can trade
teaching tricks and gripes about the MLA.
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:56:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Y
In-Reply-To: <951204152942_44052806@emout04.mail.aol.com>
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Bill Luoma wrote:
> >>Yexplication is yexploration
>
> ylang ylang?
It's actually a bit of dialogue from Vikram Seth's massive but
entertaining anachronism, A SUITABLE BOY.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg Duke University
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program
(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708
FAX (919) 684-6277
"Yexplication is yexploration."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:57:10 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: MLA EVENTS
dick h., specifically:
i hold mself in part responsible for the profession/al thread, which i've
tried to pursue with some amount of stated hesitancy... to suggest that
it's "boohoo," dick, is just plain wrong in my view---i've been trying to
get at the economics of teaching, which for many of "us," like it or no, is
intertwined with our conception of ourselves as poets... there's simply got
to be a place for broader cultural discussions of this sort, esp. when one
considers the influence of various literary organizations on the MAKING of
poetry (by which i mean publishing, marketing, distributing, etc.)...
the thread is not for all tastes, no... but i read your resistance in fact
less as disinterest than as yet one more attempt to decontextualize a
discussion of poetry/poetics, to wrench it free from the institutions which
give it shape and urgency...
but that's just the way i see it...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:36:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pro's & hobbyists
Hey Dick Higgins DID YOU SEE THAT MOVIE "AMATEUR" (Hal Hartley?)
And what's the difference between THE BOO HOO Brigade
and Harold Bloom's School of Resentment?
Or the MOVE (not the one that was bombed in BILLADELPHIA)'s song
"FIRE BRIGADE" (1967)?
And did you ever see the bus advertisement that says
"We PUT THE PEEK BACK IN BOO"
and what is the relationship to it and Siouxsie Sioux
and/or the divine tautology truck--Gauranteed Overnite Delivery?
Knock knock....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:47:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Quality
Joe,
Thanks for the cultural study of motorola and iit. It's so difficult to find
an interesting description of how writers and corporations interact. If you
look in the business publishing section you find platitudes like the gavin
quotation. Pep rallies. If you look to critical theory you just find
uncritical and nervous attacks on corporate culture.
I was surprised at the lack of (at least) lip service that motorola was
"paying" to writing. You here a lot of platitudes these days about how upset
business "leaders" are that their engineers and sales folks can't write,
can't think, can't analyze , can't be creative, can't be independent, don't
understand tom peters when he says an org chart should look like a jackson
pollack painting.
The company i work for has had a strange relationship to writers. Had a lot
when Alan Berheimer was VP of com com. But when RonRon moved to phili he
said bubuy to me, have fun being the last literate person in the dept.
I'm in sales now and find a few more literate folk than in marketing (??!!).
I have taught writing classes to my peers and there does seem to be some
consciousness from mgmt that decent written communication (persuasion) can be
translated in $$$. But there is definite lack of skill. Maybe this is why
RonRon's new company is eating our lunch.
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:48:45 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
>
>
>I don't know. I've been compiling poems from notebook materials for a few
>years and I find it pretty draining.
>Jordan
Yeah, that could be draining.
Ron spoke of finding a form. What happened to me is that I felt trapped in
the notion of *the poem*, and wanting to break out of it started doing
series-of-fragments for poetics reasons, turned out to fit into my life
much better, but that's not why I got started doing it, and I expect if I
won a lottery tomorrow and quit my job I'd still be thinking in terms of
strings of stuff loosely attached rather than discrete page-or-two packets.
But I doubt if form can arise solely from personal circumstance, without
some theoretical or poetical or aesthetic or whatever urgency. Or maybe we
all just fool ourselves.
Meanwhile there are folks who write novels on the sly -- how do they do
that?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 07:53:31 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
In-Reply-To: <199512050739.XAA08078@sparta.SJSU.EDU>
beware beware
the same trick the repubs. are trying to pull in congress has long been
in progress in education -- much talk of decentralizing, moving power
down to the colleges and departments, etc. -- never turns out really to
decentralize power -- instead, usually is a move to send _much_ reduced
funds to deans and departments with instructions that they are now to
decide which programs and faculty to throw overboard -- there's a reason
all the new university presidents and perhaps even your department chair
are always talking about the need to be entrepreneurial -- they want to
sell your downsized department to microsoft --
get this -- most elementary schools in california lost their librarians
(and many have lost their libraries) long ago -- BUT, most of the new
prisons have library staff --
We're thinking of renaming ourselves San Jose State Correctional
Institute in hopes of getting on the penology gravy train -- maybe we can
have all the faculty and students wear numbers & stripes??
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:24:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: TQM
>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:14:12 -0600
>From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
>
>TQM is taking over at a lot of places, not just Motorola-influenced IIT.
>
>When Donna Shalala was pres. or whatever of U. of Wisconsin she was a
>devout TQM devotee; it's sweeping public schools (under the guise of
>"outcomes based/continuous improvement") and will no doubt be coming to a
>higher educational estalishment near you if it hasn't already arrived.
>
>Like behaviorism, it is impossible to argue with -- "what's wrong with
>continuous improvement?" is one question you will be asked. Of course the
>problematic nature of the notion of "improvement" is just one many things
>that escapes the TQM devotees' attention, but (tautologically) they don't
>notice this, even when it's pointed out.
There's more. At least here at Arizona, where the new president who came in
a couple of years ago had 30 lbs of TQM buttons stapled to his chest, the
rhetoric is wooly (sp?) enough to make a supposedly function-based system
completely non-functional. As Joe notes in another post from yesterday, the
students are of course called "customers" (which begs the whole
certification question, of course); but in all the data-driven reports
what's measured is "input/throughput/output" of guess what, students. I
guess on some fairly zenish level there might be some sense in the notion of
customers buying themselves as products, but I don't think The Tower as it's
appropriately called has reached that level of awareness yet. Meanwhile the
data is soft enough to qualify for instant Oldenburg enshrinement (correct
that spelling for me, if necessary, geysers). Plus the criteria, each
semester, for each new data-driven report switch maddeningly, and no advance
warning is given as to what data the underpaid admin assistants are supposed
to log into their databases. PLUS which, apparently, very few of the reams
of paper that get called for actually get read (of course). It reminds me a
lot of teaching elementary school in Oceanhill Brownsville in the late
sixties and early seventies--the phenomenon of "lesson plans," to be
prepared in truly mandarin format--let's see, 3 minutes of motivation, 2
minutes of introducing the topic, etc etc--such that plans filled out
without due attention to said format would be returned by the assistant
principal for re-submission. That is to say, we're being kept busy, and
quite effectively.
Occasional late-night forays into deep cable space, ie MEU, have given me
the impression that TQM or some variant thereof actually makes lots of
sense, or can, in industry. That's also what my college friend who manages
computer stuff for a big mylar (sp?) balloon factory in Brooklyn says.
There's always a (relative) bottleneck in an operation so there's always
something to fix. It's also true that at a big state university with
serious research aspirations but an antsy legislature worried about the
state's sons and daughters--and rightly so, since average time to degree for
the BA is well over six years--a production model arguably has some utility.
But here, at least, not too many utils are dropping into the box.
Tenney
(also lots of nice stories about going to efficiency meetings at which
300-plus faculty members are kept waiting for twenty minutes in a big
auditorium bc, 1/2 way through the meeting, the folks from OIR (Office of
Institutional Research=data moles) discover that 3 pages are missing from
the efficiency handout they've distributed. and so on. but that's for
another time.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:24:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: oh yes definitely
>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:54:33 -0700
>From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Sunday Morning Service Poems
>
>how about stevens' "Sunday Moring"?
>
>Jeffrey Timmons
yep, I like it. all those shores w inarticulate pang & all (pardon the
quoted mis-spelling)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 11:25:14 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quality
bill, yeah, you really gotta work hard to yank outta the corporate mouths
what they mean by "communication"... even in my tech. writing courses,
students enter with a visualization that what they're gonna get is the
$1500 version of the $200 business com. seminars being offered by so many
independent firms these days (one student admitted this to me this past
semester---somehow i managed to convince him that this wasn't necessarily a
Good Thing)... whereas i'm less interested in such functional doings (to an
extreme perhaps) and more interested in plumbing the corporate-educational
philosophy underwriting a course title such as "communication for
management"... and trying to understand how language practices may be more
ethically conceived in such contexts (w/o reducing "ethics" itself to
prepackaged, black & white, plug & chug formulae)... but of course this is
a contested site, esp. when viewed over and against controversies in the
composition community...
i guess it's worth pointing out around here, in light of recent posts, that
poetry/poetics has at least something to do with teaching... that the way
poetry is taught has at least something to do with educational curricula
and pedagogical theory... that teaching in turn influences to a large
extent the way many folks come to understand same... and that this suggests
a basis for reception and identity, even wrt poets themselves... and lest
anybody believe that this talk about writing-in-academe is all moot, i
would suggest taking a long, hard look at the standards debates in
composition studies, how writing assessment and such is being talked about,
and what this means for educating children in the nuances of text...
one final thought, after reading judy's and tenney's posts: i used to
think, having been sent both by miller brewing co. and bristol-myers co.
through a good deal of (sometimes intense) corporate training, that there
might be some use for a more 'business-oriented' approach to academic
economic woes... but these days i'd urge, strongly, that any such
information transfer be attempted only with some serious viral protection
in place... the cultural backdrop is just too damned desperately
conservative to import such thinking w/o a serious risk of infection... i
use the technical metaphor to suggest that, as much as i'm in favor of
using computers and the like in teaching, these sorts of optimization
strategies represent in essence the nastier side of educational technology
in the late 20th. century, how the "human" (incl. learning) stands to be
"institutionalized" by specific forms of technological thinking and
practice...
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:29:32 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
Hey, Aldon, are you suggesting that TQM is a scam. It seems to pull
the wool of DEMOCRACY over the wolf of heirarchies and pyramids--
in government, business, academia and even the "poetry world"--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:45:10 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: An Ordinary Evening in New Haven
Studenbts students students--
This is supposed to be about poetics. Cut the shop talk baby and get down
to business.
Sincerely
____
Thanks for the clarification. Thanks also for the patronization.
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:09:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
>I don't know. I've been compiling poems
>from notebook materials for a few
>years and I find it pretty draining.
>Jordan
Jordan,
Hang on to those notebeooks and sell them when you're an old fart.
ChaChing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:09:00 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Don Cheney <Don_Cheney@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes ---------------------------
From: anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU at @UCSD
Date: 12/5/95 7:53AM
*To: POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU at @UCSD
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
look kids, i'm getting tired of hearing how much our prison systems do for
inmates (in the media and now here). haven't you heard? chain gangs are
being revived for laughs.
my brother is in a california state prison (chuckwalla valley, in blythe) and
they have someone who is called a librarian but who knows nothing about books.
and they have a library but as john told me, "YOU have more books than this
library, NO JOKE!"--and i don't have a massive collection.
prisoners get to be bored all day. they have one tv for the entire place, the
library's a joke, the food's a joke. recently the governor or someone from his
office was visiting and all of the sudden they have decent food to eat and
prison officials literally start taking bunks out of cells so that it doesn't
appear to be overcrowded. i asked john what they did with the actual inmates
and he said some get put into isolation, they just get rid of them.
and part of the local scenery (at least for my brother) includes seeing an
inmate beaten to death by 5 guards (the inmate had jumped one of the guards).
prisons may be getting lots of money but the prisoners are not the ones reaping
the benefits.
don
dcheney@ucsd.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
beware beware
the same trick the repubs. are trying to pull in congress has long been
in progress in education -- much talk of decentralizing, moving power
down to the colleges and departments, etc. -- never turns out really to
decentralize power -- instead, usually is a move to send _much_ reduced
funds to deans and departments with instructions that they are now to
decide which programs and faculty to throw overboard -- there's a reason
all the new university presidents and perhaps even your department chair
are always talking about the need to be entrepreneurial -- they want to
sell your downsized department to microsoft --
get this -- most elementary schools in california lost their librarians
(and many have lost their libraries) long ago -- BUT, most of the new
prisons have library staff --
We're thinking of renaming ourselves San Jose State Correctional
Institute in hopes of getting on the penology gravy train -- maybe we can
have all the faculty and students wear numbers & stripes??
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:57:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: MLA EVENTS
>dick h., specifically:
>
>i hold mself in part responsible for the profession/al thread, which i've
>tried to pursue with some amount of stated hesitancy... to suggest that
>it's "boohoo," dick, is just plain wrong in my view---i've been trying to
>get at the economics of teaching, which for many of "us," like it or no, is
>intertwined with our conception of ourselves as poets... there's simply got
>to be a place for broader cultural discussions of this sort, esp. when one
>considers the influence of various literary organizations on the MAKING of
>poetry (by which i mean publishing, marketing, distributing, etc.)...
>
>the thread is not for all tastes, no... but i read your resistance in fact
>less as disinterest than as yet one more attempt to decontextualize a
>discussion of poetry/poetics, to wrench it free from the institutions which
>give it shape and urgency...
>
>but that's just the way i see it...
>
>best,
>
>joe
Of course you are right, Joe. Yesterday I was at a political meeting- our
county government had its public budget hearing. Our local arts council
happens to be a pretty good one, and the county honchos decided to punish
it by reducing its annual grant by the amount which the arts organization
had granted to our local art cinema, also a good one, whicxh had shown the
film PRIEST. This was a clear-cut free speech issue. We have many academic
institutions around-Vassar, Bard College, etc. In fact we (my friends)
brought together several hundred people to protest-local artists, writers,
yes and poets. Not one academic except a priest (who teaches) showed up to
protest. Too busy being busy, I guess. But it is this kind of situations
which shows how the academic career involvement has marginalized the poets
and other artists (but especially the poets, I think) who attempt it. Of
course there are exceptions.
Then when I logged on to find some interesting theoretical issues, all I
could find was chatter about the MLA.You can imagine how I felt! How I
read it is that the poets who will or who must attend the MLA convention
are hungry to belong to a community of poets and poetry afficianados-and we
all know there are such people. But the MLA does not exist for this
purpose. Conclusion-the poetics bulletin board should be precisely what it
was established to be, a POETICS discussion group. The people who need to
chatter about the MLA should have their own discussion group. And as for
poetry, there are increasing numbers of e-mags and sites with poetry,
visual or otherwise. Each has its own function- and, I might add, its own
legitimacy. But they are not the same thing.
By the way, I will be happy to swap site info on places where my own poetry
is or where I have found poems I like. WE can then discuss those pieces,
which means we will be focusing on stuff that is current and which
presumably reflects our time and predicaments in a fairly raw way.
Very bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:14:38 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Pro's & hobbyists
> Hey Dick Higgins DID YOU SEE THAT MOVIE "AMATEUR" (Hal Hartley?)
> And what's the difference between THE BOO HOO Brigade
> and Harold Bloom's School of Resentment?
> Or the MOVE (not the one that was bombed in BILLADELPHIA)'s song
> "FIRE BRIGADE" (1967)?
> And did you ever see the bus advertisement that says
> "We PUT THE PEEK BACK IN BOO"
> and what is the relationship to it and Siouxsie Sioux
> and/or the divine tautology truck--Gauranteed Overnite Delivery?
> Knock knock....
You say "Knock Knoxk," and I am tempted to say "Who'
s there?" Well, I do say it, and we can keep this up. But I also say more...
No, I haven't seen the Hal Hartley movie AMATEUR--hope I can rent it
locally. Can't afford FACETS.
Bloom is not necessary to me, though I have sometimes reflected on his idea
that the meaning of a poem is a poem. I notice, I enjoy but I try not to
hang onto anything which is not essential.
Siouxsxie Sioux--didn't she have something to do with the Banshees? I
haven't hung onto that either.
When I growled about the Boohoo Brigade, I meant people who feel sorry for
themselves, that they have so little time, etc. I meant that and that is
what I meant. Much as I dislike Thomas Carlyle in many ways, Emerson's
picture of him becomes more and more important from the diary entries and
letters "Facts, Ralph---Faaaacts" (I can almost hear him speak) to the
NATURAL HISTORY OF INTELLECT portrait and so on. Carlyle was born in the
same year as John Keats, and somehow remained a true romantic though we
seldom think of him that way. I left academia almost twenty years ago
because it was getting in the way of my scholarly and artistic interests.
For others' interests I suppose it is okay. But academia is not the only
way to approach these things, and listening to the laments of what I called
the Boohoo Brigade is not exactly thrilling. If you walk in a cold rain,
you are going to get wet. An endless discussion of the matter is not likely
to be edifying.
Sincerely
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:23:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa Januzzi <Marisa.Januzzi@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: self service...
In-Reply-To: <199512051725.LAA08686@charlie.acc.iit.edu>
Hi everyone; hi Dick (may I call you that?) specifically.
By asking about service learning classes involving poetry and some sort
of community service activity, I was precisely wondering about the
ways such a class could cause writers to consider how, as Joe Amato
helpfully put it (in a different context), language practices can be more
ethically conceived... it seems to me that "who you are when you hand a
hungry person a sandwich" is at least as compelling as "who you are" when
you watch yr poem go from crayon to caslon... and that anyway the two
questions can't be separately conceived... and that is the hunger in poetry
I'm going to teach a class called "Lit of Social Reflection: Hunger"
(readings from sociology and anthropology as well as lit-- Kafka, Fisher,
DiPrima ((DINNERS AND NIGHTMARES/REVOLUTIONARY LETTERS is perfect!!)),
Dorothy Day...) Anyone have any suggestions of readings which might
illuminate the experiences these students will have, of serving and eating
with people at a soup kitchen? Ways to situate writing, and poetics, vis.
food and hunger? I may not even be asking the right questions yet.
To Judy Roitman: thanks-- your suggestion reminded me, too, of Kenneth
Koch's book on teaching poetry-writing in nursing homes... which could be
a good place to start... somehow I've been given this task of coming up
with not just one class, but a rubric for regular service-learning
offerings through my English Dept... so Lit. of Social Reflection (theft
of title from Robert Coles) is the course title, and each person who does
it could work up a separate topic-- like aging. AIDS lit. also comes to
mind-- wouldn't it be great to teach Killian and Bellamy and Powell and
Gunn and Kushner in one class...
Thanks, everyone, for being open to this question of what "doing poetry"
might encompass.
--Nobody's Baby!
Marisa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:27:41 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: An Ordinary Evening in New Haven
>Studenbts students students--
>
>This is supposed to be about poetics. Cut the shop talk baby and get down
>to business.
>
>Sincerely
>
>
>
>____
>Thanks for the clarification. Thanks also for the patronization.
>
>Jordan
You're welcome. You may patronize me if you wish. That isn't really the
issue, or is it?
However, as thou shalt find from other things I have said in this context,
I believe it is unfair to reduce poetics to shop talk for teachers.
Sincerely
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:22:13 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
Bill Luoma writes:
>Hang on to those notebeooks and sell them when you're an old fart.
Bill,
I'm surprised you'd make such an ageist statement.
You're no young chicken yourself.
Dodie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:28:20 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: self service...
Since I didn't make my suggestion publicly, here it is -- it was that
working with older folks might challenge notions of language, mind, self,
life/death/sickness/health & the whole ball of wax.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:14:56 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: MLA EVENTS
dick:
>ces where my own poetryces where my own poetryBy the way, I will be happy to swap site info on places where my own poetry
>is or where I have found poems I like...
yep, indeedy, please post those addresses... tho to point out,
discussion of poems is not always (for better or worse) a discussion
ov poetics...
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:49:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the academy
>Mark Roberts wrote:
>
>> "I want to hold your thing."
>>
>>Paul was always lost for words -
>>
>>How about
>>
>>everything depends upon the little red thing
>
>
>"so much"
>
>for quoting WCW.
>
>But you're sure right about Paul one of the four worst Beatles of all time.
>
>
>Herb Levy
>herb@eskimo.com
whoops
that was one of my 'quick posts' I should have reread it before
posting..........
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:31:39 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: ULMER SPRING <ulmer@COOPER.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sheila M., Ron S., Chas. A.
i find poems in writing to people
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:34:15 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: ULMER SPRING <ulmer@COOPER.EDU>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
to do with jail and fairness, everyone should read Brother Soledad by
George Jackson...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:59:39 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
aldon sez:
get this -- most elementary schools in california lost their librarians
(and many have lost their libraries) long ago -- BUT, most of the new
prisons have library staff --
We're thinking of renaming ourselves San Jose State Correctional
Institute in hopes of getting on the penology gravy train -- maybe we can
have all the faculty and students wear numbers & stripes??
***
see, i knew genet had something to do with poetics and pedagogy.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:19:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MLA EVENTS
In-Reply-To: <v01530501ace9ac4b5ef2@[205.161.119.32]>
On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Dick Higgins wrote:
> Somehow I wonder why there is so much shop and small talk on this network.
> Who has time for that? Can it be that the English Profs are not aware of
> the difference between talking about poetry and poetics? I see very little
> material on poetics on this network, but a great deal of professional
> boohooing. These laments about not having time to write poetry--anyone who
> vents such laments is quite incapable of writing worthwhile poetry.
is this productive or helpful? maybe your time would be better spent not
boohooing what goes on here?
Jeffrey Timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 19:54:26 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: self service...
marisa, how 'bout that book, cant remember title, Travels with ? memoirs of a
homeless guy who traveled w/ his little dog? he's spozed to be a pretty good
writer, had been published in some gay porn-fiction mags before. came out a
few years ago? also, there were lots of prison anthologies etc in the 1970s
maybe yr univ library has some. the first NuYorican anthology (Morrow,
1970s pub date) has some poems about street life. The Women Outside, by
somebody Golden (UCal press) is about homeless women, an ethnography. then
there's always the great orwell, down and out in paris and london. and of
course Genet, the thief's journal has some great passages about being
light-headed from hunger in andalusia, walking and walking.
i think it's quite a delicate issue to do "social work" in classes because
often social/ethical community work involves what they call "human subjects"
and it's not always so clear what the class's relationship to the community
is/will be. i know of one guy who does engineering who teaches a class on
part of which requires doing some community service --a disabled friend got a
stand built by his students for her computer monitor so she could work lying
down. this guy gets grants from outside the state college he works at, i
think, not sure. in grad school i taught a comp class called the arts of
addiction and i had speakers from various anonymous recovery programs come in
and tell their stories, and we read rimbaud, kafka, shange, jim carroll, st
augustine, anne sexton, etc. that's not the same thing as having students
go out into the community to do service work, but it was a thrilling dose of
"real life" for them. let me know how it goes --md
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:03:35 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
Don Cheney:
If I may interpret, I don't think aldon was trying to imply that prisoners
would rather be in prison than anywhere else, or that prisons are nice cushy
places. Rather, I think he was acknowledging what your post ended with,
that "prisons may be getting lots of money but the prisoners are not the
ones reaping the benefits", except that he was asserting the inverse of the
notion, that, while prisoners are not the ones reaping the benefits, more
and more money IS being poured into the prison system, roughly at the
expense of the educational system. The stingy mood of the taxpayers we've
been hearing so much about doesn't seem to apply to punishing people, only
to wise and compassionate uses of money, like for education, art and health
care.
Sorry to hear about your brother.
Steve
At 01:09 PM 12/5/95 -0800, you wrote:
>---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes ---------------------------
>From: anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU at @UCSD
>Date: 12/5/95 7:53AM
>*To: POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU at @UCSD
>Subject: Re: total quality mangled
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>look kids, i'm getting tired of hearing how much our prison systems do for
>inmates (in the media and now here). haven't you heard? chain gangs are
>being revived for laughs.
>
>my brother is in a california state prison (chuckwalla valley, in blythe) and
>they have someone who is called a librarian but who knows nothing about books.
>and they have a library but as john told me, "YOU have more books than this
>library, NO JOKE!"--and i don't have a massive collection.
>
>prisoners get to be bored all day. they have one tv for the entire place, the
>library's a joke, the food's a joke. recently the governor or someone from his
>office was visiting and all of the sudden they have decent food to eat and
>prison officials literally start taking bunks out of cells so that it doesn't
>appear to be overcrowded. i asked john what they did with the actual inmates
>and he said some get put into isolation, they just get rid of them.
>
>and part of the local scenery (at least for my brother) includes seeing an
>inmate beaten to death by 5 guards (the inmate had jumped one of the guards).
>
>prisons may be getting lots of money but the prisoners are not the ones reaping
>the benefits.
>
>don
>dcheney@ucsd.edu
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>beware beware
>
>the same trick the repubs. are trying to pull in congress has long been
>in progress in education -- much talk of decentralizing, moving power
>down to the colleges and departments, etc. -- never turns out really to
>decentralize power -- instead, usually is a move to send _much_ reduced
>funds to deans and departments with instructions that they are now to
>decide which programs and faculty to throw overboard -- there's a reason
>all the new university presidents and perhaps even your department chair
>are always talking about the need to be entrepreneurial -- they want to
>sell your downsized department to microsoft --
>
>get this -- most elementary schools in california lost their librarians
>(and many have lost their libraries) long ago -- BUT, most of the new
>prisons have library staff --
>
>We're thinking of renaming ourselves San Jose State Correctional
>Institute in hopes of getting on the penology gravy train -- maybe we can
>have all the faculty and students wear numbers & stripes??
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:11:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Spring Chickens
Dodie is correct. I am not of the spring--just turned 35. I apologize if I
offended anyone with the ageist phrase "old fart."
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 19:45:00 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Don Cheney <Don_Cheney@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
Steve,
No, i didn't think Aldon meant that prisoners were in someplace good
and cushy. and i'm all for more money for schools. i think
i was reacting more to the idea the media spreads of prisons
as luxury bungalows for criminals. and i've found out that
nothing is further from the truth. and so when i read here
the assertion that prisons have more library resources than
schools it rubs my funny bone the wrong way and i start
ranting.
Don
-----------------------------------------------------------
Don Cheney:
If I may interpret, I don't think aldon was trying to imply that prisoners
would rather be in prison than anywhere else, or that prisons are nice cushy
places. Rather, I think he was acknowledging what your post ended with,
that "prisons may be getting lots of money but the prisoners are not the
ones reaping the benefits", except that he was asserting the inverse of the
notion, that, while prisoners are not the ones reaping the benefits, more
and more money IS being poured into the prison system, roughly at the
expense of the educational system. The stingy mood of the taxpayers we've
been hearing so much about doesn't seem to apply to punishing people, only
to wise and compassionate uses of money, like for education, art and health
care.
Sorry to hear about your brother.
Steve
At 01:09 PM 12/5/95 -0800, you wrote:
>---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes ---------------------------
>From: anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU at @UCSD
>Date: 12/5/95 7:53AM
>*To: POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU at @UCSD
>Subject: Re: total quality mangled
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>look kids, i'm getting tired of hearing how much our prison systems do for
>inmates (in the media and now here). haven't you heard? chain gangs are
>being revived for laughs.
>
>my brother is in a california state prison (chuckwalla valley, in blythe) and
>they have someone who is called a librarian but who knows nothing about books.
>and they have a library but as john told me, "YOU have more books than this
>library, NO JOKE!"--and i don't have a massive collection.
>
>prisoners get to be bored all day. they have one tv for the entire place, the
>library's a joke, the food's a joke. recently the governor or someone from his
>office was visiting and all of the sudden they have decent food to eat and
>prison officials literally start taking bunks out of cells so that it doesn't
>appear to be overcrowded. i asked john what they did with the actual inmates
>and he said some get put into isolation, they just get rid of them.
>
>and part of the local scenery (at least for my brother) includes seeing an
>inmate beaten to death by 5 guards (the inmate had jumped one of the guards).
>
>prisons may be getting lots of money but the prisoners are not the ones reaping
>the benefits.
>
>don
>dcheney@ucsd.edu
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>beware beware
>
>the same trick the repubs. are trying to pull in congress has long been
>in progress in education -- much talk of decentralizing, moving power
>down to the colleges and departments, etc. -- never turns out really to
>decentralize power -- instead, usually is a move to send _much_ reduced
>funds to deans and departments with instructions that they are now to
>decide which programs and faculty to throw overboard -- there's a reason
>all the new university presidents and perhaps even your department chair
>are always talking about the need to be entrepreneurial -- they want to
>sell your downsized department to microsoft --
>
>get this -- most elementary schools in california lost their librarians
>(and many have lost their libraries) long ago -- BUT, most of the new
>prisons have library staff --
>
>We're thinking of renaming ourselves San Jose State Correctional
>Institute in hopes of getting on the penology gravy train -- maybe we can
>have all the faculty and students wear numbers & stripes??
>
>
>-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging)
>Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id RAA26943 sendmail
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>Message-ID: <199512060103.RAA28200@slip-1.slip.net>
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:03:35 -0800
>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
>Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
>From: Steve Carll <sjcarll@SLIP.NET>
>Subject: Re: total quality mangled
>To: Multiple recipients of list POETICS <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:49:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steven Howard Shoemaker <ss6r@FERMI.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the academy
In-Reply-To: <199512050748.CAA150101@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU> from "Automatic
digest processor" at Dec 5, 95 00:00:06 am
Tony Green writes:
"no, no, Joe Amato, say MORE not less abt this v intrsting biz of
Motorola & Ideas. I've printed out and circulated via department
staff common room this a.m. this seems to me where the real action is
now, where the corporate money meets the academy..."
Yes, Joe, by all means. You're sending shivers up my spine but i
want to hear more. Weird thing is, i'm more and more convinced these
days that academy types (a category which may or may not continue to
include me) need to learn to see themselves as workers. I had a long
talk the other day with an AFL-CIO picketer--who was a supermarket
employee--and it was friggin' amazing how much we had in common in terms
of what the Repub "revolution" was going to do to us if we let it. So
i guess what i'm wondering is: will the corporate world "teach" us that
we really are workers in time for us to learn to act in our own
interests, or will that realization come, perhaps, exactly when it's
too late. I think it was Joe who also talked in previous post about
resistance to collective-bargaining among his colleagues. And i've
just gotten thru hearing some the most godawful brainwashed ivory tower
crap from some of the folks (grad students this time) here at uva, so
that's partly where this is coming from...
steve shoemaker
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:14:48 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: MLA EVENTS
In-Reply-To: <v01530500acea2a259815@[205.161.119.26]>
Dick Higgins wrote:
> Not one academic except a priest (who teaches) showed up to
protest. Too busy being busy, I guess. But it is this kind of situations
which shows how the academic career involvement has marginalized the
poets
and other artists (but especially the poets, I think) who attempt it. Of
course there are exceptions.
Then when I logged on to find some interesting theoretical issues, all I
could find was chatter......the poetics bulletin board should be
precisely
what it was established to be, a POETICS discussion group.
By the way, I will be happy to swap site info on places where my own
poetry
>
When I read your first post I applauded (as a fellow non- or anti-
academic, but then wondered why you didn't talk about poetics
rather than complaining.
Now I see you are serious, so why not check out the many renga
threads and give some half-way serious comments? Ask
MLLJORGE@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu, jdavis@panix.com, welford@hawaii.edu,
lsr3h@DARWIN.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU, semurphy@INDIRECT.COM, cris@slang.
demon.co.uk, AERIALEDGE@aol.com, csheil@freenet.grfn.org, or
MDamon9999@AOL.COM
for samples
Tom Bell tbjn@well.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 00:32:41 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: microsoft buys catholic church (fwd)
From: IN%"km7836@cnsvax.albany.edu" 5-DEC-1995 14:21:54.61
To: IN%"ls0796@cnsvax.albany.edu" "ls0796"
CC:
Subj: Have you argued, lately? (fwd)
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:21:05 -0500 (EST)
From: km7836@cnsvax.albany.edu
Subject: Have you argued, lately? (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 13:23:10 -0500 (EST)
From: cr7838@cnsvax.albany.edu
To: km7836 <km7836@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: Have you argued, lately? (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 15:45:06 -0500 (EST)
From: HEILER INKA <ih7768@csc.albany.edu>
To: HBI -- Enrik Schott <schott@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
HW Klemm <klemm@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
Matthias Menze <Menze@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
Michael Muszula <Muszula@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
Sabine Millen <millen@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
Sandra Poehl <Poehl@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
Patrick Pfister <pfist@inf-wiss.uni-konstanz.de>,
Tom Becker <Becker2@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
Gustl Huber <huber@normans.isd.uni-stuttgart.de>,
Iliana Filby <if8622@sarah.albany.edu>,
Allison Hase <ah0658@cnsvax.albany.edu>,
Annette Hagenau <hagenau@hbi-stuttgart.de>,
Barbara H <bh7857@cnsvax.albany.edu>,
Corinna R <cr7838@cnsvax.albany.edu>,
Roland S <rs7848@cnsvax.albany.edu>, ec7311@cnsvax.albany.edu
Subject: Have you argued, lately? (fwd)
> "HOW TO ARGUE EFFECTIVELY"
>
> I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win
>an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this and
>steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great
>respect, they don't even invite me. You too can win arguments.
>Simply follow these rules:
>
> *Drink liquor.
>
>Suppose you are at a party and some hotshot intellectual is
>expounding on the economy of Peru, a subject you know nothing about.
>If you're drinking some health-fanatic drink like grapefruit juice,
>you'll hang back, afraid to display your ignorance, while the hotshot
>enthralls your date. But if you drink several large martinis, you'll
>discover you have STRONG VIEWS about the Peruvian economy. You'll be
>a WEALTH of information. You'll argue forcefully, offering searing
>insights and possibly upsetting furniture. People will be impressed.
>Some may leave the room.
>
> *Make things up.
>
>Suppose, in the Peruvian economy argument, you are trying to prove
>that Peruvians are underpaid, a position you base solely on the fact
>that YOU are underpaid, and you'll be damned if you're going to let a
>bunch of Peruvians be better off. DON'T say: "I think Peruvians are
>underpaid." Say instead: "The average Peruvian's salary in 1981
>dollars adjusted for the revised tax base is $1,452.81 per annum,
>which is $836.07 before the mean gross poverty level."
>
> NOTE: Always make up exact figures.
>
>If an opponent asks you where you got your information, make THAT up
>too. Say: "This information comes from Dr. Hovel T. Moon's study
>for the Buford Commission published on May 9, 1982. Didn't you read
>it?" Say this in the same tone of voice you would use to say, "You
>left your soiled underwear in my bathroom."
>
> *Use meaningless but weighty-sounding words and phrases.
>
>Memorize this list:
>
> Let me put it this way
> In terms of
> Vis-a-vis
> Per se
> As it were
> Qua
> So to speak
> Sine qua non
> Non Sequitur
>
>You should also memorize some Latin abbreviations such as
>"Q.E.D.", "e.g.", and "i.e." These are all short for "I
>speak Latin, and you don't."
>
>Here's how to use these words and phrases. Suppose you want to say,
>"Peruvians would like to order appetizers more often, but they don't
>have enough money."
>
>You never win arguments talking like that. But you WILL win if you
>say, "Let me put it this way. In terms of appetizers vis-a-vis
>Peruvians qua Peruvians, they would like to order them more often, so
>to speak, but they do not have enough money per se, as it were.
>Q.E.D."
>
>Only a fool would challenge that statement.
>
> *Use snappy and irrelevant comebacks.
>
>You need an arsenal of all-purpose irrelevant phrases to fire back at
>your opponents when they make valid points. The best are:
>
> You're begging the question.
> You're being defensive.
> Don't compare apples to oranges.
> What are your parameters?
>
>This last one is especially valuable. Nobody (other than engineers
>and policy wonks) has the vaguest idea what "parameters" means.
>
>Here's how to use your comebacks:
>
> You say: As Abraham Lincoln said in 1873...
> Your opponent says: Lincoln died in 1865.
> You say: You're begging the question.
>
> You say: Liberians, like most Asians...
> Your opponent says: Liberia is in Africa.
> You say: You're being defensive.
>
> *Compare your opponent to Adolf Hitler.
>
>This is your heavy artillery, for when your opponent is obviously
>right and you are spectacularly wrong. Bring Hitler up subtly. Say,
>"That sounds suspiciously like something Adolf Hitler might say," or
>"You certainly do remind me of Adolf Hitler."
>
>So that's it. You now know how to out-argue anybody. Do not try to
>pull any of this on people who generally carry weapons.
******************************************************************************
Inka Heiler | Librarians are the secret masters of the
IH7768@cnsunix.albany.edu | universe. They control information.
Home: 433 Central Ave Apt#3 | Don't ever piss one off.
Albany, N.Y. 12206 | - Spider Robinson -
******************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 00:35:39 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pro's & hobbyists
So, Dick Higgins----are they ever gonna reprint that old book of
yours that looks like a BIBLE?-----if not, well BOO WHO YOU. chris
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 00:43:38 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joshua N Schuster <jnschust@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: service classes?
Dick Higgins wrote:
>
> Isn't this the old "Daily Thermes" approach, which Baker used sixty years
> ago? It was still a-going when I was at Yale in the fifties and is still
> used, as you say, on the high schoool level in some places. Indeed it is
> good. But it is a pedagogical question.
A pedagogical question meaning exclusively not a poetical question?
The connection is much too complex to be dismissed with isolatory
labels. While more often it seems pedagogy resists poetics, I
see no reason why generative dialogue cannot be either
transgressive or radical and certainly can cite many contemp.
examples (in classrooms and/as texts). Instead of raking a divide
between the two I think it would be more productive to meld these genres.
>
> How you teach is a different question from how you do or what you or anyone
> else's work EXISTS. How does a poem exist once it has left you? Is it the
> same work when it is typeset in Caslon or handwritten? How does it exist in
> the memory? Who are you when you have done it? Those are the questions
> which should be addressed, not the moonings of students who would rather be
> somewhere else (who can blame them) whom you are charged with teachi8ng
> your skills in spite of themselves.
These are all interesting questions which I can't presume to answer
thoroughly theoretically (tho would like to know those web sites of
contemp. poems.) but I can insist on expanding the realm of poetics past
a thin narrow path of verse commerce. As mentioned by Bill Luoma, some
of what makes lit. crit. poetically versatile is its willingness to
extend beyond Literature to institutions such as shopping malls, but why
not politics, commuting, video games, utopia, numbers, architecture,
cartoons? Are you positing a right poetics vs. wrong poetics, rigorous
vs. trivial theory? I can understand the hesitancy not to allow
EVERYTHING to be grist for poetics, but no one word listserv could ever
sufficiently entice or encapsulate the possibility for discussion, so I
can't assume you've been "misled" by the list. Find much laugh in
Carlyle's "Faaaacts" drawl but when does such become hegemonically
anti-intellectual? When it becomes pedagogical? As for the book
*Natural History of the Intellect* I haven't read it but thus it seems
now I've merely been reading the "unnatural" history of intellect. Woah
was i off the beaten poetics.
Nonetheless I do enjoy yr posts and was wonder if you could answer yr
question "How does your work EXIST?" with respect to YOUR work?
bests,
joshua
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:50:22 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Graham John Sharpe <gsharpe@SFU.CA>
Subject: New Websites @ Prose & Contexts (fwd)
thot this would be of interest to some, especially those with concrete
and visual poetry interests.
graham
.
> From: Prose & Contexts <dalopes@io.org>
> Subject: New Websites @ Prose & Contexts
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Length: 1983
>
> Prose & Contexts is proud to announce some significant changes and additions
> to its website: http://www.io.org/~dalopes
>
> ALL NEW SITES:
>
> dbqp
> A small press run by Geof Huth in Schenectady NY joins the site with a
> plethora of publications of all shapes and sizes. This press specializes in
> innovative work of many kinds, especially visual poetry and odd objects. The
> site includes an online catalogue, descriptions of various print runs, and a
> history of the press. The site may be accessed directly at
> http://www.io.org/~dalopes/dbqp
>
> Runaway Spoon Press
> This is an unofficial site at the moment for Bob Grumman's press in Port
> Charlotte FL. Once again, this press specializes in visual poetry, though it
> has published a range of work including some prose. This site will include
> an online catalogue in the future. Currently featured is Irving Weiss's
> book, _Visual Voices: The Poem As a Print Object_, published in 1994,
> including samples as well as a description. Access directly at
> http://www.io.org/~dalopes/rasp
>
> UPDATES:
>
> fingerprinting inkoperated
> An all new special exhibit has been added to the pages of this small press:
> _Fragmintentions (No. 2)_ by Stephen Cain. This partly-authorized web
> reprint (in a limited edition of 5 billion viewers) is a wry and witty work
> by a talented emerging visual poet in Toronto. fingerprinting may be
> accessed directly at http://www.io.org/~dalopes/fi
>
> COMING VERY SOON (no, really):
>
> Torque
> One of the most vital forces to hit the scene in a long time, this magazine
> pushes at the boundaries as it strives to fill "that necessary void in
> literature." The last issue, subtitled "commodified dissent for the
> disgruntled few," features work both visual and linear by writers new and
> old. Watch this space for information on its grand web launch,
> deconstructing a computer near you...
> __________________________________________________
> Prose & Contexts damian lopes
> Box 657 Station P Toronto ON M5S 2Y4
> http://www.io.org/~dalopes
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:54:21 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: totalitarian human control
In-Reply-To: <199512060507.AAA17540@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
In the state of California this year, the Governor, for the first time in
state history, submitted an initial budget which included more dollars
for prisons than for higher education. Many elementary schools are now
without librarians of any type, good or bad. When the media attempt to
give us the impression that people in prison have it cushy, they seldom
show us pictures of inmates in the library (that only seems to come up
when they imply that inmates shouldn't be allowed to study law because,
god help us, they might actually use their knowledge to APPEAL their
sentences, and where would we be if innocent people could get out of jail
on appeal %$^&(%)) ---
look -- I've been in jail,,,, not for long, admittedly, but I'm of an age
to have been busted in demonstrations and frequently picked up for no
reason at all back in the days when, for instance, the New Jersey Highway
Patrol would arrest any racially integrated group of people driving in a
van. I have relatives in prison. At the rate this country is going we
may soon all have relatives in prison, or be there ourselves.
Jail might be nice if you're Michael Milken (sp?) but
point is, this same rampant "privatize everything" mood is at work in the
prison budgets as well -- Who has not noticed that, along with the
reintroduction of the chain gang and rock busting, more jails are being
operated for profit, and more of the jailed are producing income for
someone other than themselves --
We live in a society that is more interested in locking people up than in
educating them -- Most of the prison systems I am aware of, while they
still have something resembling an education program, have cut back on
possibilities for college level training, even as more money is spent on
the system itself --
When I was a student at the former Federal City College, we had a college
degree program operating at Lorton Reformatory -- You can guess how
popular that is with the Repub. Revolt --
Please, let's not confuse things -- It is a fact that prisons in this
state get more money than higher ed (from the state, that is -- UC gets
lots of other money, as Ron detailed here) -- That money goes to support
an ever-expanding penal regime,, a business that relies upon having more
people jailed for longer periods of time -- The disciplinary effects of
this should be obvious without aid of Foucault --=
The cushy ones are the people who make an industry of keeping large
segments of the population uneducated and locked up -- That's what I've
been talking about here --
the poetics of confinement, I think, would be a suitable point for
discussion -- Particulary on a day when a court has ruled against
attempts to hold the federal government reponsible for slavery --
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:59:48 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: the poetics of boo hoo
In-Reply-To: <199512060507.AAA17540@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Now in one year
a book published
and plumbing--
took a lifetime
to weep
a deep
trickle
--Lorine Niedecker
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:20:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: outreach, hunger, & utah
>I'm going to teach a class called "Lit of Social Reflection: Hunger"
>(readings from sociology and anthropology as well as lit-- Kafka, Fisher,
>DiPrima ((DINNERS AND NIGHTMARES/REVOLUTIONARY LETTERS is perfect!!)),
>Dorothy Day...) Anyone have any suggestions of readings which might
>illuminate the experiences these students will have, of serving and eating
>with people at a soup kitchen? Ways to situate writing, and poetics, vis.
>food and hunger? I may not even be asking the right questions yet.
>
>To Judy Roitman: thanks-- your suggestion reminded me, too, of Kenneth
>Koch's book on teaching poetry-writing in nursing homes... which could be
>a good place to start... somehow I've been given this task of coming up
>with not just one class, but a rubric for regular service-learning
>offerings through my English Dept... so Lit. of Social Reflection (theft
>of title from Robert Coles) is the course title, and each person who does
>it could work up a separate topic-- like aging. AIDS lit. also comes to
>mind-- wouldn't it be great to teach Killian and Bellamy and Powell and
>Gunn and Kushner in one class...
>
>Thanks, everyone, for being open to this question of what "doing poetry"
>might encompass.
>
>--Nobody's Baby!
>Marisa
>
Marisa--
just a sideline to the thread:
does this mean that the English Department is actively moving into something
like only slightly indirect social action? Does this come from S. Tatum as
head or from higher up? Are meditations on Utah pertinent? If so might
they be forthcoming? Being at a big state U just slightly to the south, I'm
a little surprised, is all, since I can't feature something like what you
describe happening here so (almost) directly, though my department is hardly
conservative. Not to offend, but slight whiffs of the Church of the LDS
seem to waft about your post, though I know U of Utah ain't BYU. Is LDS
stuff pertinent and, if so, where does that place a (presumably?) quite
non-LDS Asst Prof from Columbia?
best,
Tenney
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:20:17 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: just a general
bravo that is to the POETICS list. The last week or so has been especially
fractious and, I think, occasionally especially narsty (doan correct THAT
spelling!)--but (and?), for me at least, esp. engaging. It's not exactly a
"community" in the somewhat saccharine sense that was mooned over a year or
so ago here, but it sure is a place to come to mull over the news for the
lack of which people are mizzably dying etc pardon my syntax....
Tenney
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 02:14:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kenneth Sherwood <V001PXFU@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: EPCLIVE with Joris and Rothenberg
ANNOUNCING an EPCLive *EVENT* with Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris
In celebration of their new anthology _Poems for the Millennium:
The University of California Book of Modern and Postmodern Poetry_
Rothenberg and Joris will join EPCLive for discussion, argument,
and virtual "bow taking".
This event will take place between 6:30pm and 8:00pm EST on Monday
December 11th.
In preparation for this event, the editors have made the book's
Contents and Introduction available online (though you'll all want to
buy this book!) To check these texts out of the library or to get
the dirt on joining this real-time event, check out:
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/epclive
Write sherwood@acsu.buffalo.edu or lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu with
any questions.
____________________________________________________________________________
Kenneth Sherwood | Dept English
v001pxfu@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | 618 Clemens Hall
sherwood@acsu.buffalo.edu | SUNY @ Buffalo
|_______Buffalo, NY 14214___________
RIF/T mail: e-poetry@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Electronic Poetry Center (Web address): http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
_____________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:20:25 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poetry and the Academy
In-Reply-To: <199512011828.LAA09504@ns1.indirect.com>
I am saving all these messages about what people are doing outside of
academia (and enjoying it) for when I'm sliding down the mudpile of the
academic job market in a few years. A light in the sludge! Thankyou.
Gabrielle
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 00:20:14 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: self service...
Yesterday Maria Damon advised:
>marisa, how 'bout that book, cant remember title, Travels with ? memoirs of a
>homeless guy who traveled w/ his little dog? he's spozed to be a pretty good
>writer, had been published in some gay porn-fiction mags before. came out a
>few years ago?
Maria, you must be thinking of Lars Eighner and his book Travels with
Lizbeth. It's a good book, but his porn stories are even better, talk
about "self-service," just a tip from-
Kevin Killian
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:39:32 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: mla
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.951203131305.14895B-100000@osf1.gmu.edu>
Moving Leg Ameliorators
Most Laugh Again
Me Like Ashpits
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 03:13:07 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Guggenheim 95
Tom Vogler backchanneled the following question to me, which is worth
thinking about. Except for Schjeldahl, what a dismal list!
Ron Silliman
-------------------------------------------------------------
Out of curiosity I did a quick count of the "creative" categories for
the '95 Gurglehomes (152 awards) and found 14 doing photography or
film, 9 painting or similar art medium, 11 doing writing (breakdown
below), 2 doing music. The writers broke down into 4 poetry, 3
fiction, 2 playwriting, 2 other. Why do you suppose the poets all have
academic gigs, the fiction writers none?
POETRY
Linda Bierds, Poet, Sr. Lecturer in Creative Writing, Univ. of
Washington
Michael Collier, Poet and Writer. Assoc. Prof English, Univ. of
Maryland at
College Park; Director, Bread Loaf
Derek Mahon, Poet Distinguished Visiting Prof. Cooper Union for the
Advancement of Science and Art.
Lynne McMahon, Poet. Assoc. Prof. English, Univ. of Missouri.
FICTION
Dagoberto Gilb, Writer. El Paso, Tx.
Douglas Hobbie, Writer. Conway, Mass.
Ann Patchett, Writer. Nashville, Tn.
PLAYWRITING
David Ives, Playwright. Adjunct Prof. Theatre Arts, Columbia
Paula Vogel, Playwright. Prof. English, Brown University.
OTHER
Ben Katchor, Writer and Artist. Tivoli, NY. "Picture stories."
Peter Schjeldahl, Poet and Writer. "A memoir of 3 decades in the NY art
world."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 03:21:42 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Poetry & prisons
I recall the Maximum Security Library at Folsom being fairly large 20
years ago, but heavy on the Zane Grey novels.
Actually, Don (say hi to John for me) and Aldon, the correlation
between prisons and colleges isn't as remote or farcical as you make it
seem. UC San Diego's Muir Campus dorms were built by the same architect
(and using the SAME BASIC DESIGN) who did most of the Federal Bureau of
Prisons' Metropolitan Correctional Centers. And they don't wear
stripes, they wear blue jeans these days, at least in California. The
supermax prison in the federal system, in Marion, Illinois, was
originally a private boy's boarding school that the feds purchased when
it went bankrupt.
Just as I moved here, there was a show of artists at Eastern Penn, the
very first prison in the US (invented by the Quakers who were appalled
at chain gangs). Fiona Templeton and others had works in it which I've
heard some very interesting things about, but alas did not get to see
it.
Ron Silliman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 03:42:16 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Should
I noticed how Dick Higgins' multiple uses of should and should not got
people's hackles up. And I agree that on principle we oughta violate
any such sense of containment the minute someone tries to throw up the
barriers to discourse. But then I realized that Dick in his own way was
answering (for himself only, no doubt) what Tom Kirby-Smith had asked
awhile back about how one knows one is a poet. It is precisely the lack
of essentialism about such things here (as distinct from the CAP-L list
which has a chunk of it) that makes this discussion group the most
useful one I've found.
Poetry & the MLA, poetry & prisons, poetry & TQM, it's all here....
Hey, Bill, your comment wasn't only ageist, it was flatulantist also.
But it is nice to learn that my new company is "eating your lunch"...
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 07:50:32 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Pro's & hobbyists
> So, Dick Higgins----are they ever gonna reprint that old book of
> yours that looks like a BIBLE?-----if not, well BOO WHO YOU. chris
Boohoo me? Gee, man, things hurt too much to weep over. I'm done lamenting
and am looking into taking a crash course in marksmanship.
Anyway yes, that bible-looking book is FOEW&OMBWHNW (pronounced like a
horse's whinny) and, though it's been out of print for years, I think you
can get a copy for around $30 from Small Press Distributioon in Berkeley or
from Jon Hendricks (488 Greenwich St., New Yoirk 10013- fax 212/343-0661).
Ass e'er-
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:04:55 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: service classes?
>Dick Higgins wrote:
>>
>> Isn't this the old "Daily Thermes" approach, which Baker used sixty years
>> ago? It was still a-going when I was at Yale in the fifties and is still
>> used, as you say, on the high schoool level in some places. Indeed it is
>> good. But it is a pedagogical question.
>
>A pedagogical question meaning exclusively not a poetical question?
>The connection is much too complex to be dismissed with isolatory
>labels. While more often it seems pedagogy resists poetics, I
>see no reason why generative dialogue cannot be either
>transgressive or radical and certainly can cite many contemp.
>examples (in classrooms and/as texts). Instead of raking a divide
>between the two I think it would be more productive to meld these genres.
>
>>
>> How you teach is a different question from how you do or what you or anyone
>> else's work EXISTS. How does a poem exist once it has left you? Is it the
>> same work when it is typeset in Caslon or handwritten? How does it exist in
>> the memory? Who are you when you have done it? Those are the questions
>> which should be addressed, not the moonings of students who would rather be
>> somewhere else (who can blame them) whom you are charged with teachi8ng
>> your skills in spite of themselves.
>
>These are all interesting questions which I can't presume to answer
>thoroughly theoretically (tho would like to know those web sites of
>contemp. poems.) but I can insist on expanding the realm of poetics past
>a thin narrow path of verse commerce. As mentioned by Bill Luoma, some
>of what makes lit. crit. poetically versatile is its willingness to
>extend beyond Literature to institutions such as shopping malls, but why
>not politics, commuting, video games, utopia, numbers, architecture,
>cartoons? Are you positing a right poetics vs. wrong poetics, rigorous
>vs. trivial theory? I can understand the hesitancy not to allow
>EVERYTHING to be grist for poetics, but no one word listserv could ever
>sufficiently entice or encapsulate the possibility for discussion, so I
>can't assume you've been "misled" by the list. Find much laugh in
>Carlyle's "Faaaacts" drawl but when does such become hegemonically
>anti-intellectual? When it becomes pedagogical? As for the book
>*Natural History of the Intellect* I haven't read it but thus it seems
>now I've merely been reading the "unnatural" history of intellect. Woah
>was i off the beaten poetics.
>
>Nonetheless I do enjoy yr posts and was wonder if you could answer yr
>question "How does your work EXIST?" with respect to YOUR work?
>
>bests,
>joshua
Yeah, I like "daily themes."
I know how my work exists. I am the choleric type and when I get desperate
enough I stop raging, collect my thoughts and fill in the missing piece
which I have noticed, the absence of which was part of my rage.
As for Emerson's NATURAL HISTORY OF INTELLECT, it is a much-neglected but
fascinating work of his later years in which he matches prominent thinkers
and figures to categopries--what we might call archetypes. As for Carlyle
on facts, I don't think Carlyle was anti-intellectual particularly. But he
was fed up to the gills with what he called "dry-as-dust" historians (read
"critics") who had theories and then placed everything else into it, and in
works such as PAST AND PRESENT he contrasts the journal of a fictitious
medieval monk describing Bury-St.-Edmonds ca. 950 CE with a traditional
theoretical historian's approach. Guess which comes out ahead. Carlyle
says we need conclusions, but that it takes facts to create the process by
which those conclusions come alive. Emerson and Carlyle were, of course,
great friends, though Emerson was politically progressive and Carlyle an
outright reactionary; but Carlyle's constant reproach to Emerson was that
he often failed to relate his theory to the world in front of him. I like
to visualize Carlyle when I am writing, standing by my side, warning me not
to stray too far from the smell of spilled kerosene.
Bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:09:59 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: the poetics of boo hoo
>Now in one year
> a book published
> and plumbing--
>took a lifetime
> to weep
> a deep
> trickle
>
> --Lorine Niedecker
Of course Ms. Niedecker is right. But never forget that till recently you
could hire mourners to wail at your funeral to set its tone. In the Nerar
East little bottles were avbiable to collect the tears of mourners, and
these could be buried with you if yopu so chose. Tears, I hope you agree,
are no guarantee of either sincerity nor significance. The symphonic poems
of Sir Granville Bantock asre full of them, but I wouldn't sentence my very
worst enemy to the fate of listening to his FIFINE ART THE FAIR (which
opens with a depiction of "A Butterfly Floating on the Sea of Life").
Very bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:14:48 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Guggenheim 95
>Tom Vogler backchanneled the following question to me, which is worth
>thinking about. Except for Schjeldahl, what a dismal list!
>
>Ron Silliman
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Out of curiosity I did a quick count of the "creative" categories for
>the '95 Gurglehomes (152 awards) and found 14 doing photography or
>film, 9 painting or similar art medium, 11 doing writing (breakdown
>below), 2 doing music. The writers broke down into 4 poetry, 3
>fiction, 2 playwriting, 2 other. Why do you suppose the poets all have
>academic gigs, the fiction writers none?
>
>POETRY
>Linda Bierds, Poet, Sr. Lecturer in Creative Writing, Univ. of
>Washington
>Michael Collier, Poet and Writer. Assoc. Prof English, Univ. of
>Maryland at
>College Park; Director, Bread Loaf
>Derek Mahon, Poet Distinguished Visiting Prof. Cooper Union for the
>Advancement of Science and Art.
>Lynne McMahon, Poet. Assoc. Prof. English, Univ. of Missouri.
>
>
>FICTION
>Dagoberto Gilb, Writer. El Paso, Tx.
>Douglas Hobbie, Writer. Conway, Mass.
>Ann Patchett, Writer. Nashville, Tn.
>
>PLAYWRITING
>David Ives, Playwright. Adjunct Prof. Theatre Arts, Columbia
>Paula Vogel, Playwright. Prof. English, Brown University.
>
>OTHER
>Ben Katchor, Writer and Artist. Tivoli, NY. "Picture stories."
>Peter Schjeldahl, Poet and Writer. "A memoir of 3 decades in the NY art
>world."
Were there any "creatives" at all outside of academia?
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:58:33 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: why i want to be a poet and how you know you are
if emily dickinson is a poet i dont wanna be a poet if
geoffrey chaucer is a poet i don wanna if the
comtesse de dia is a poet no i dont want to be
a poet if wallace stevens is a poet no no i dont but
if
robert bly is a poet
oh yes god i want to be a poet ill do anything ill eat rhubarb pie
ill vote republican ill
read his poems ill buy a renault but i cant be a poet
its not on my birth certificate if you are a poet
they write it on your birth
certificate in the space marked ABNORMALITIES
they put
nascitur poeta
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:01:12 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: how you know youre a poet etc
sorry forgot to add jeremy reiskind told me and i hope i spelled his
last name right i mean it was jeremy who said they put it on your
birth certificate but it was me that did more research and found out
what they put
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:29:00 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Freud and the Library of Congress
I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has information about the
following matter:
The Washington Post on 12-05-95 reports that the Freud exhibit scheduled
to appear at the Library of Congress has been cancelled. Although
officially the Library claims that the cancellation is due to a lack of
funds, the Post suggests that the show has been cancelled because of huge
outcry from critics, who apparently signed a petition demanding that the
show not take place.
The critics identified in the Post article are Peter Swales, a "historian
of psychoanalysis," Oliver Sacks, and "feminist author Gloria Steinem."
According to the article, Peter Swales is responsible for circling the
petition that has led to the cancelling of the show. The article goes on to
link these critics with "the revisionist
vanguard--including literary deconstructionists, gender studies scholars
and academic advocates of group identity--that has toppled orthodoxies in
the arts and humanities." Steinem is further quoted on the subject of
Freud's "impact" as saying "I would say 70 percent of it is negative and
30 percent of it is positive. His premises about biological determinism
have been undermined. He himself was likely abused. He himself suppressed
criticism of his work."
One critical defender of the show, Freud biographer Peter Gay, is quoted
as responding to the criticisms that "they've convinced the convinced.
Freud once had a sexy dream about one of his daughters, so they make him
into a pedophile. They love that sort of stuff."
There is not much information in the article as to what was actually
going to be in the show. The Post quotes Library of Congress people as
saying that wanted to present a show focusing on Freud "because he has
made a decisive difference in 20th-century thought." But Mikkel
Borch-Jacobson, refered to as "a prominent Freud detractor," is quoted as
saying that the show was going to be "a massive overrepresentation of
keepers of the Freud shrine, official historians, practicing analysts,
and popular defenders of the psychoanalytic faith."
I'd appreciate public discussion from anyone who has more information on
the controversy. Obviously, Washington Post representations are not
necessarily trustworthy. This was, however, a front-page article,
probably as a result of its relation to the recent Enola Gay exhibit
controversy at the Smithsonian.
Thanks.
mark wallace
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:56:18 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pro's & hobbyists
re: FOEW&OMBWHNW
Dick didn't you promise to post some sites where we could look at your viz
pomes?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:01:09 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Keith Tuma <KWTUMA@MIAMIU.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Should
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 6 Dec 1995 03:42:16 -0800 from
<rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Ron--
For those of us with clogged disks. . .
What's going on in the essentialized poetryminds of CAP-L these days?
Does Corn still rule? Histories of versemaking from "plop" to "ploop"?
*Should* you care to expound at your leisure. . .
--Keith Tuma
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:52:21 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: academic incorporations 1...
just a few thoughts about this question of academic workers... i've used
the subject line above to enable folks who have no wish to read about such
doings to quickly detect and hit "delete"...
i think it was richard ohmann who argued long ago (in essence) that
academics need to start talking politically about academe itself...
now if a good portion of poets were steelworkers, and if i were a
steelworker, and if somebody suggested (to paraphrase dick---and dick, i'm
not picking on you here, it's just that what you posted was at once
generous and provocative) that i was "feeling sorry for myself," i'd
probably get pissed off and challenge that person to an arm wrestling
match...
but seeing as how i've no wish to appear manly, and seeing as how most
poets are *not* steelworkers, and seeing as how, in fact, many who write
poetry *are* (and aren't) teachers, i have to wonder why an informed
discussion of what's wrong with the teaching profession, centered around
that most anarchic of---is it gonna be "vocations"? (evokes a "calling,"
no?)---poetry, isn't a worthwhile activity?... in fact, why is this somehow
beside the point?... why is it so easy to pick on?...
i mean, academics seem more *subject* (all senses of this latter) to the
charge of appearing like cry babies or some such, and this imho is why it's
generally perceived as ok to rail against mla-orientation, even around
here, even as those railed against are themselves railing against the mla
(substitute aft (american federation of teachers) or nea (national
education association) for mla and you'll see what i mean)... b/c if a good
portion of poets around here were un/employed steelworkers, and if they
took to lamenting over the relationship twixt their work and poetry (the
poetry many of them wrote and read and identified with and through), would
this require a separate list?... but it's obvious most folks don't construe
steelworkers in such terms---they do "real" work, if they're unemployed
it's "serious business"... besides, writing is for sissies...
writing is for sissies... think of philip levine's fairly recent _what work
is_ (however much i like much of his earlier stuff)...
in fact there may be something very gendered about all of this, right?... i
mean, even though writing is for sissies, it's much as though academe
occupies the feminine somehow wrt poetry (here, anyway), hence can be
pooh-poohed in such terms... so mebbe *teaching* is for sissies... so
perhaps academe simply lacks something of the archaic residue of
poet-hero?...
mebbe i'm reading into the situation a bit, yes, so mea culpa... and of
course i don't see the remedy for this in terms of regendering as masculine
(i.e., arm wrestling)... and of course it seems to me that even the
tendency to regard academe in such terms is just FURTHER indication that
the academics among us would do well to start to rethink the (teaching)
professional [ok, yawn, i know]...
i entirely agree that (again, to paraphrase dick) "academia is not the only
way to approach these things"---yet it IS one way...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:05:14 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: academic incorporations 2...
a few scholarly notes:
for me, the most interesting historical resonances to what's happening
right now with tqm and all are to be found in the period immediately
preceding u.s. involvement in the second world war, as well as the war
years themselves---circa 1938-1946... just at the actual dawning of the
(postwar) cybernetics era...
if you haven't already, have a close look at chester irving barnard's _the
functions of the executive_ (harvard up, 1938), james burnham's _the
managerial revolution_ (indiana up, 1941), carl becker's _new liberties for
old_ (yale up, 1941), harold laski's _the american presidency: an
interpretation_ (harper, 1941)... also work by lawrence dennis, friedrich
hayek, ernst cassirer (_the myth of the state_) to get some idea of what i
mean (i'm thinking only of work published during those years)...
'we've' gotten 'here,' it seems to me, by this curious amalgam of
corporate-govt. designs of, by, and for "the people," yknow... and the
educational environs has often aided and abetted this development,
occasionally unwittingly...
next, have a look at steve heims' _the cybernetics group_ (mit, 1991)
alongside jed rasula's _the american poetry wax museum_, chapter two... and
i'll be damned if, in terms of their influence and ultimate significance,
the new critics don't start to sound a whole lot like the group involved in
the macy conferences on cybernetics (1946-1953)...
an aside (my tendency to footnote---oh well): have a look at edwin t.
layton, jr.'s _the revolt of the engineers: social responsibility and the
american engineering profession_ (johns hopkins up, 1986), to see how
corporate america broke the unionizing effort of engineers earlier this
century...
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:20:12 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: ken saro-wiwa
guyzies*
check the new york times wed dec 6 for some work from Desmond Orage, son of
the late Chief SN Orage. Ken saro-wiwa was also his uncle by marriage. "He"
took out a two page spread in section A, with nice clip art and arrows that
point to important paragraph/events to allow us to make a narrative. Each
paragraph/event begins with a large albertus drop cap. Two towards the end
go like this:
"At the rally of the NYCOP Youth, Ken Saro-Wiwa ordered the Youth to 'go kill
the vultures.' Some of the youth would later testify about his order in
court."
"May 21, 1994. A pre-announced meeting of Ogani Chiefs and Elders was held.
The unsuspecting men gathered to discuss the rise in status of two of their
sons. Eyewitness accounts indicated that 2000 armed (NYCOP) Youth stormed
the Gbeneneme Palace where the meeting of elders and chiefs was being held.
Only those whose names appeared on the 'Newsflash' were selectively
bludgeoned and killed. Others in attendance went unharmed. Four founding
fathers of MOSOP were killed. Their bodies were dragged outside of the
palace. Most were beheaded. One was eaten. The remains of the bodies were
packed inside a Volkswagon Beetle which was then set afire."
-------
An address appears at the bottom of page 17:
The Kobani, Badey and Orage Memorial Foundation
PO Box 59241 Philadelphia PA 19102
215-545-2458
* with persimmon from md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:09:46 -0600
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: academic incorporations 3...
now, more on the situation at iit:
it's not just galvin/motorola who runs things at iit, it's one of the
wealthiest men in america, bob pritzger (last i heard, galvin was "worth"
$1 1/2 BILLION, pritzger $3 1/2 BILLION)... these two men are simply the
most powerful two folks on our board of trustees... why do i know this?---i
mean, like, i've got OTHER THINGS to think about, yknow, like how to teach
my classes, like tending to each and every student... and my poetry, for
chrissakes, what on earth does this latter have to do with teaching
even?...
well i know this b/c the shit hit the fan earlier this year on my
campus---and undergrad. ed. was threatened with extinction... and this is,
so to speak, my bread & butter... so i think those of you who work in
academe would do well to begin to acquaint yourselves with your boards of
trustees, your governing bodies... and those of you with any interest at
all in what your friends and family are doing in higher ed. ought to start
to wonder how things have gotten so screwed up... b/c boards are often the
'mysterious' players behind academic decisions... in fact they vote among
themselves to 'elect' new members TO the board---so in effect, though
governed in general by state laws, they are self-sufficient...
now: galvin is a bit of a loose cannon, quipping to the last english minor
here at iit, when this latter confronted him re cutting all the humanities
undergrad. programs, that (roughly) he 'got more reading done now that he
had a chauffeur'... har har har... but it's this sort of remark that
reveals the not-so-subtle contempt (and anti-intellectualism) currently
fueling decisions to cut "illiberal education," do away with all of us
"tenured radicals," rectify the "prof. scam" (alter, in john singleton's
ironically convenient phrase, "higher learning," pull it more in line with
economic "realities")...
now as i'm certain many of you can imagine, even on my own campus there are
opposing ideas about the usefulness of the coming changes... as i see it,
there are the company folks---those for whom anything but absolute loyalty
is disloyalty, and putting a good face on all losses ("no problems, just
opportunities") is par for the course... then there are admins. who are
caught twixt their faculty loyalties and their loyalty to iit---to see it
remain solvent... then there are faculty whose loyalty is to their
profession (this is close to moi, though i'm even a bit more autonomous and
self-serving, perhaps)... and finally are those who are, like some of the
admins., loyal to iit... i'm using this grid of mixed loyalties as a way of
describing the complex of institutional motivations... i'm probably in my
evaluation, as you might note, one of the harsher critics of what's going
down... but in any case we each have loyalties to our families, ideologies,
we have our writing commitments, etc.---so it's all very messy... i offer
only a brutal critique of the institutional contours...
here's an excerpt from the (now foundational) *national commission for iit*
document (distributed november of last year)... i'm excerpting only a few
sentences (themselves italicized as headings in the original) from this
fifty page booklet:
Professionals are dedicated to public service.
Professionals are committed to continuing personal development.
Professionals find hard work fulfilling.
Professionals know that technological change is the main engine of economic
progress and growth.
Professionals recognize that the entrepreneurial spirit is the fuel for
both individual and societal progress.
following each of these bylines is a short statement as to how iit is
meeting such "professional values"... i leave it to each of you to imagine
how the cumulative effect of such assertions is "instituted"...
the next assertion (this time boldface):
Professionals must work in and value our multicultural world.
under which
This principle, drawn from IIT's original mission, has led IIT to become a
highly diverse, international institution. In the global economy of the
21st century, such a commitment to diversity will be even more important.
iit *does* in fact have a high number of international students, as do most
technical institutes... in fact, there's a strong recruitment effort at the
moment aimed at drawing folks from southeast asia in particular... of
course the point here is that these folks can *pay* for their
educations---which is why they're being wooed... most recently, iit *has*
in fact just received from its board of trustees some millions of dollars
to fund 30 (and mebbe 60 or 100) 'exceptional' students in engineering-only
majors---many of these scholarships cover room, board, tuition, the
works... this is Good News for the most part, given that the scholarships
presumably will be allocated to exceptional students regardless of economic
background, ethnicity, etc...
but the fact is, many of us read all of these developments as an attempt by
iit, in effect, to end their subsidizing of kids from the chicago area...
many of them african-american or latino/a kids who, say, may have had the
misfortune of attending the chicago public school system (with it's 50%
dropout rate)... subsidizing such students, finally, COSTS... so while
undergrad. ed is NOT a profit-making activity, asking that it BECOME one
becomes in essence smokescreen for a move toward generating revenue from
students, with the guarantee of endowment monies from powerful board
members who are "satisfied" that you're playing financial hardball, and
educating students *their way*... iit has been in deep shit financially for
years, and its endowment is, at best, modest... ergo, now we have to join
the rest of the world, ysee, b/c after all, the "bottom line," as i hear so
often, is profit...
many of us initially viewed the scholarship endowment as a 'bribe' to
cajole us into approving (then imminent) faculty governance procedural
changes that would in effect permit the institution to eliminate fully
tenured folks (in the event of financial exigency) BEFORE untenured
folks... in any case, these scholarships say nothing as to the woeful state
of the institution---buildings need work, iit is now trying to lease some
campus buildings for additional revenue (as programs are reduced or
consolidated), etc. (to give you some idea: $262 per annum in english
journals, and we were asked to whittle this down!---so now there *are* no
english journals in our library... i could go on and on here, but aldon,
for one, clearly knows this tune better than me)...
and these changes say nothing as to the proposed accounting scheme (look
carefully at this stuff, folks) that would in effect INCREASE humanities
deficit spending with an INCREASE in freshman enrollment---b/c we have no
majors (!---note that under the current financial model, we're something
like $750,000 in the red BECAUSE we're a service organization and have no
majors (mind you, with the lowest pay and highest teaching loads on
campus))... further, that the new "financial principles" would have
permitted the board of trustees to eliminate any program or dept. with a
deficit two years' running... this was effectively stopped (at least, for
now), but the status of humanities is currently compromised by a proposal
(now approved) to incorporate two or three of the required twelve
humanities hours (that's it---twelve hours required by abet in history,
philosophy, english for an engineering degree) into an "interprofessional
project"...
which in effect is a project meant to familiarize students with the 'real
world' of the corporation... and we're to find a way to do what we do
within said rubric... consider, in addition, the extent to which corporate
imperatives drive accreditation agencies like abet (this is the
accreditation board for engineering and technology)...
i think this does it for now... but again, this gives some idea what's
going on in academe, not that awful drivel one generally hears ushering
forth from the bennetts and gingriches and kimballs and d'souzas of the
privileged world...
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:13:42 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
ulmer spring (welcome are you new?) wrote:
to do with jail and fairness, everyone should read Brother Soledad by
George Jackson...
yes, it ws one of those "formative" books for me in my early 20s. lots of
good stuff on prisons out there, including tons of prison poetry anthologies
from the 70s and 80s.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:13:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry and cult studs
how can we get ross talarico on the list --does anyone know him?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:40:46 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Freud and the Library of Congress
Piece on Freud in today's ny times too.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:42:17 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: benefactors, patrons, angels
Conclusion-the poetics bulletin board should be precisely what it
was established to be, a POETICS discussion group. The people who need to
chatter about the MLA should have their own discussion group. And as for
poetry, there are increasing numbers of e-mags and sites with poetry,
visual or otherwise. Each has its own function- and, I might add, its own
legitimacy. But they are not the same thing.
By the way, I will be happy to swap site info on places where my own poetry
is or where I have found poems I like. WE can then discuss those pieces,
which means we will be focusing on stuff that is current and which
presumably reflects our time and predicaments in a fairly raw way.
____
Dick! buddy! glad you're here!
How long have you been here, anyway?
We sure could have used you when we were battling with Alfred Corn!
Did you hear about that?
Have you checked out the archives of this mailing list
At the Electronic Poetry Center? That's a pretty good site.
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
You should see what people here have to say about William Carlos Williams!
I guess I got flustered by your good ol' Poundian "ruff-em-up"
Because it came in the middle of a discussion
About teaching and the connection of poetry to society
Specifically a proposed class on poetry and hunger!
This seemed to me to come from almost exactly the same place
If, it's true, with a different slant,
That the people we speak of as resuscitating the discussion of
POETICS
In America came from--poetry and society and I don't mean
To go along with any "intentional fallacy" arguments but
I don't see the point of telling people
What they're supposed to be talking about. All the
Best,
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:48:37 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Freud and the Library of Congress
Mark,
There is an article about this controversy in the latest _Lingua Franca_.
If you can't find it, send me your address and I'll mail it to you. I'm
done with it.
I hope it's okay with Al Nielsen that I read this article, since he
condemned the last piece I mentioned from the _New Yorker_. Like I could
see smoke fuming up from his keyboard.
Dodie Bellamy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 13:07:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Pro's & hobbyists
Comments: cc: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@csbh.mhv.net>
>re: FOEW&OMBWHNW
>
>Dick didn't you promise to post some sites where we could look at your viz
>pomes?
My poems in general, yes. It's an odd selection which is available at the
moment (no sound poems for instance) but this too is interesting--there
seems to be a whole new wave of interest in visual poems. Does anyone have
an explanation for this?
Anyway, here are my favorite poetry and new art sites:
5. December, 1995
Web Sites
Sites I am on or am linked from-
Cage Page-http://www.emf.net/~mal/cage.html
=46luxus-http://www.panix.com/fluxus
Goldsmith's Page [Kenny]-http://wfmu.org:80/=97kennyg/index.html
Left Hand Books-http://csbh.mhv.net/~lefthandb
Light and Dust Poets-http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lighthom.html [Karl
Young's in=1Fdex page at Grist; includes me, Alison & many others]
Marco, Joe de-http://www.cinenet.net/=97marco [has many Fluxthings including
=46riedman's album]
Interesting Poetry-
Atomic Books-http://www.atomicbooks.com/atomicbk/ [Baltimore store with
excellent pop culture and political links]
Avec-http://www.crl.com/~creiner/syntax/sampler.html (good lit mag)
Computer Generated Writing-http://www.uio.no/~mwatz/c-g writing
Electronic Poetry
Center-http://www.gopher://writing.upenn.edu/hh/internet/library/e-journals/
ub/rift/.hotlist
Grist-http://www.thing.net/~grist/
Left Hand Books- (see above)
Light and Dust Poets- (see above)
Taproots Review-http://www.writing.upenn.edu/epc/ezines/ (=3DTRee, best
review medium I know)
Other New Arts-
American Council on the Arts-http://www.artsusa.org/
Art sites index-gopher://chico.rice.edu:70/11/subject
Cage Page (see above)
=46estival de Cr=E9ation Multim=E9dia On Line-http://www.cicv.fr
=46luxus- (see above)
Gering, Sandra-http://www.interport.net/=97gering
Goldsmith's Page [Kenny]- (see above)
Idaho Center for the Book Arts-http://www.uidaho.edu/~schla932/
Left Hand Books- (see above)
Marco, Joe de- (see above)
New Music Net
[Oliveros]-http://www.tmn.com/Oh/Artswire/www/NewMusNet/nmnhome.html
Rift-gopher://writing.upenn.edu:70/hh/internet/library/e-journals/ub/rift/ri=
ft
Surrealism server [links to dada, futurism,
etc.]--http://pharmdec.wustl.edu/juju/surr/
Sources for books-
Amazon Books-http://www.amazon.com (they claim to be able to get any book
listed in Books in Print)
Biblio Mailing List Archive-http://www.smartdocs.com/biblio-mail
Chip's Home Page-http://virtumall.com/homepages/chip/main.html [excellent
info on zines of all kinds]
Gets other listings for poetry-
Lycos Home Page-http://www.lycos.com/
Poetics at Buffalo-http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/poetics/
Salon-http://www.salon1999.com/ (crud that Adobe and Apple think is state
of the art-funny!)
Yahoo-http://www.yahoo.com/art
Very bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:53:00 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Don Cheney <Don_Cheney@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: totalitarian human control
bravo, aldon. sorry if i ranted in my post. the prison my brother in has
zero resources unless you want to work out. he's had time to think and i've
been able to send him books (only through publishers or bookstores, though
i've found ways around that rule) but basically he's been sitting there for
three years now. no classes. a joke of a library. treated like scum by
guards. and i reacted on that level. that and it seems (because my ears
are open to it) i keep hearing media reports on how cushy prisons are (you
know the spiel) and that has not been my brother's experience.
and ron:
thanks for your post. and yes, they still wear denim. when you visit you
can't wear any denim or clothing with any kind of insignia.
don
dcheney@ucsd.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the state of California this year, the Governor, for the first time in
state history, submitted an initial budget which included more dollars for
prisons than for higher education. Many elementary schools are now
without librarians of any type, good or bad. When the media attempt to
give us the impression that people in prison have it cushy, they seldom
show us pictures of inmates in the library (that only seems to come up
when they imply that inmates shouldn't be allowed to study law because,
god help us, they might actually use their knowledge to APPEAL their
sentences, and where would we be if innocent people could get out of jail
on appeal %$^&(%)) ---
look -- I've been in jail,,,, not for long, admittedly, but I'm of an age
to have been busted in demonstrations and frequently picked up for no
reason at all back in the days when, for instance, the New Jersey Highway
Patrol would arrest any racially integrated group of people driving in a
van. I have relatives in prison. At the rate this country is going we
may soon all have relatives in prison, or be there ourselves.
Jail might be nice if you're Michael Milken (sp?) but
point is, this same rampant "privatize everything" mood is at work in the
prison budgets as well -- Who has not noticed that, along with the
reintroduction of the chain gang and rock busting, more jails are being
operated for profit, and more of the jailed are producing income for someone
other than themselves --
We live in a society that is more interested in locking people up than in
educating them -- Most of the prison systems I am aware of, while they
still have something resembling an education program, have cut back on
possibilities for college level training, even as more money is spent on
the system itself --
When I was a student at the former Federal City College, we had a college
degree program operating at Lorton Reformatory -- You can guess how
popular that is with the Repub. Revolt --
Please, let's not confuse things -- It is a fact that prisons in this
state get more money than higher ed (from the state, that is -- UC gets
lots of other money, as Ron detailed here) -- That money goes to support
an ever-expanding penal regime,, a business that relies upon having more
people jailed for longer periods of time -- The disciplinary effects of
this should be obvious without aid of Foucault --=
The cushy ones are the people who make an industry of keeping large
segments of the population uneducated and locked up -- That's what I've
been talking about here --
the poetics of confinement, I think, would be a suitable point for
discussion -- Particulary on a day when a court has ruled against
attempts to hold the federal government reponsible for slavery --
>-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging)
>Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id WAA21160 sendmail
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>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951205213719.14469A-100000@athens>
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:54:21 -0800
>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
>Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
>From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: totalitarian human control
>To: Multiple recipients of list POETICS <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
>In-Reply-To: <199512060507.AAA17540@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:45:14 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: I'll second Schjeldahl
Katchor's comic, "Julius Knipl, Real Estate Photographer", is so off it's
on. Not dismal at all.
Dagoberto Gilb writes some pretty strong stuff for NPR.
I'll second Schjeldahl.
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:26:05 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: self service...
our own brightcolored kk writes:
Maria, you must be thinking of Lars Eighner and his book Travels with
Lizbeth. It's a good book, but his porn stories are even better, talk
about "self-service," just a tip from-
Kevin Killian
***
aye aye the very one (hiya kev!)-md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:26:11 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: mla
much less attractive
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:26:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Poetry & prisons
ron s writes:
The
supermax prison in the federal system, in Marion, Illinois, was
originally a private boy's boarding school that the feds purchased when
it went bankrupt.
***
yes, and genet's fontevrault, oppressive scene of many a homerotic tryst, had
been a nunnery. and the national library in mexico city had been a max
security prison.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:26:24 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: tart fruit
luoma writes:
* with persimmon from md
**thanks guyzy i'm duly humbled but appreciative.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:33:08 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: benefactors, patrons, angels
>Conclusion-the poetics bulletin board should be precisely what it
>was established to be, a POETICS discussion group. The people who need to
>chatter about the MLA should have their own discussion group. And as for
>poetry, there are increasing numbers of e-mags and sites with poetry,
>visual or otherwise. Each has its own function- and, I might add, its own
>legitimacy. But they are not the same thing.
>
>By the way, I will be happy to swap site info on places where my own poetry
>is or where I have found poems I like. WE can then discuss those pieces,
>which means we will be focusing on stuff that is current and which
>presumably reflects our time and predicaments in a fairly raw way.
>
>____
>
>Dick! buddy! glad you're here!
>How long have you been here, anyway?
>We sure could have used you when we were battling with Alfred Corn!
>Did you hear about that?
>Have you checked out the archives of this mailing list
>At the Electronic Poetry Center? That's a pretty good site.
>http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
>You should see what people here have to say about William Carlos Williams!
>I guess I got flustered by your good ol' Poundian "ruff-em-up"
>Because it came in the middle of a discussion
>About teaching and the connection of poetry to society
>Specifically a proposed class on poetry and hunger!
>This seemed to me to come from almost exactly the same place
>If, it's true, with a different slant,
>That the people we speak of as resuscitating the discussion of
>POETICS
>In America came from--poetry and society and I don't mean
>To go along with any "intentional fallacy" arguments but
>I don't see the point of telling people
>What they're supposed to be talking about. All the
>Best,
>Jordan
Thanks. I guess the best thing to do now is to set a good example and hope
the profs will set up their own place for discussing their very real
problems.
Bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:25:38 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Zukowski <U37753@UICVM.BITNET>
Subject: Chicago reading
For those of you in or around Chicago, or who will be in
town for the MLA, Private Arts Press is sponsoring a
reading:
PRIVATE IN PUBLIC
reading series
presents
a reading by
CHARLES BERNSTEIN
and
DOUGLAS MESSERLI
Friday, December 29
6:00 p.m.
Museum of Contemporary Art
Site Cafe/Bookstore
237 East Ontario
admission free
information: (312) 280-2473
The PRIVATE IN PUBLIC reading series at the Museum of
Contemporary Art has begun to garner a reputation
around town for making the finest of innovative writers
accessible to the public in a pleasant and informal
venue.
It will be a wonderful event so spread the word!!! I
look forward to meeting as many of you there as
possible.
Thanks.
Peter Zukowski
zukowski@uic.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:56:25 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Poetry and the academy
but, Mark, it cd do with some shorter lines
every-
thing depends
upon a
little red
thing
[L subscribers avert yr by now red faces
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:58:24 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Freud and the Library of Congress
Freudians in Washington will have to wait for the return of the
repressed?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:14:39 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: geezers
geezers is the word you want, Tenney. Geysers are some thing else, to
do with volcanic activity and water, and fun to watch.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:10:05 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Freud and the Library of Congress
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9512060943.A14802-0100000@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Mark,
New York Times had a story today too, but with even less info than what
you say the post had.
Jeffrey Timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:31:00 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: right but
>Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:14:39 GMT+1200
>From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
>Subject: geezers
>
>geezers is the word you want, Tenney. Geysers are some thing else, to
>do with volcanic activity and water, and fun to watch.
>
>Tony Green,
>e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
right, but "this time" (at least if you're referring to my most recent post
or so) I did it on purpose. anyway geezers are fun to watch too.
I spoze I should take advantage of my fancy Eudora mailer and run spell
checks on my posts, since I obviously can't spell, but jeez (or geez)
btw enjoy most all your posts.
best,
Tenney
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:28:33 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: prison reading lists
In-Reply-To: <199512070506.AAA27516@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
here's a sad fact for you -- the reason I have recently been able to find
out what poets Harold Carrington (_Drive Suite_) and Ray Bremser (BEAT)
were reading as they wrote those early poems is that, as inhabitants of
the slammer, they had to get their books mailed in directly from the
small press publishers, and sd records of such reading wound up where we
boo hooing mla types can pore over them (Carrington, by the way, was
pissed when Bremser got out and took their joint collection out of the
joint with him) --
They still read your mail in most jails, too -- which is more than some
of us editors do --
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:30:18 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ". . . "
In-Reply-To: <199512070506.AAA27516@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
dodie -- your readings always cool with me -- I was just getting spooked
by different sentences from the ones what spooked you --
thanks for the alert to the additional article -- I'd only seen the wire
story on it --
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:32:27 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: country joe amato
In-Reply-To: <199512070506.AAA27516@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
that's one intriguing reading list! Have you, as is common among us
writer types, written something as a result of that reading??? There
were some books there I hadn't known about -- thanks much
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:36:08 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: CAP-L renga
You wrote:
>
>Ron--
>
>For those of us with clogged disks. . .
>
>What's going on in the essentialized poetryminds of CAP-L these days?
>
>Does Corn still rule? Histories of versemaking from "plop" to "ploop"?
>
>*Should* you care to expound at your leisure. . .
>
>--Keith Tuma
>
They are preparing to invent the CAP-L version of renga. This, it turns
out, is a masquerade of dramatic monologues to be written and posted on
New Years Eve. Elaborate conceits abound that have caused my eyes to
glaze over (very Umberto Eco-esque), but it involves writing a dramatic
monologue (DM in the CAP-L terminology) as if it were written by one
author "speaking" as another. Thus, Jacques Lacan writing as Lao Tse.
All of which are supposed to have occurred at certain abbey, etc.....
Hey, I don't make this stuff up!
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:06:11 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: reading lists...
aldon, just old stuff for the diss. i did some time ago now with don byrd
(one of the few folks at the time who understood the connections)...
anyway, please don't rush out to read same---too "serious," not enough
dance... it's a diss., i mean...
but i guess i'll plug such work by saying that a recent poetic project,
_lake affect_, takes full advantage of that reading list in some kinda
off-the-wall ways... can't find anybody yet who's interested in publishing
same [hint hint], but i'm determined to get it 'out there'... i could
upload the sucker on the web, i s'pose, but at the moment my commitment to
web-work is such that i'm reserving self-publishing of this latter variety
for an electronic, uhm, children's hypertext, so to speak... whenever i can
get around to finishing this latter...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:43:31 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: prison reading lists
i seem to have missed out on a prison reading list posted by our own dear joe
amato. cd you send it me direct ("Backchannel") --in the late 70s i was on
the periphery of what was then called "prison work" (that is, bail funds,
prisoner advocacy etc, rather than working in or for prisons) and collected
some ephemera from the various MA prisons, norfolk, walpole etc --and just
picked up a slim anthology called In Time at Grolier's, an anth. of women's
prison poetry. such stuff continues to turn me on--also, a good poet is Judy
Lucero, a Chicana writing from prison in the late 1970s who died young.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:43:41 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: purism on the list
hey guyzies, geezers and geysers, and esp dick higgins, i appreciate the
scolding viz mla boohooing (i do tend to get all wrapt up in professional
self-pity) --i think, though, that part of the charm of the list is its
anti-purism. as herb levy said in a memorable post to alfred corn, (or do i
paraphrase) the list is full of contention, corny jokes, strands and
contra-strands running every which way. the renga phenomenon, tho it became
overwhelming eventually and did break off, was a fun, whacky digressive jaunt
--dare i say shandy-esque, or does that reveal me as one of those wonks who
took qualifying exams lo these many years ago --so, babe, relax, enjoy, and
keep sounding off --md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:02:47 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Guggenheim 95
In-Reply-To: <199512061113.DAA10166@ix2.ix.netcom.com> from "Ron Silliman" at
Dec 6, 95 03:13:07 am
Yes, the list is dismal indeed, as Ron says, but that's not surpsiing
as we all well know. My bedside reading this week is >Jed Rasula's
AMERICAN POETRY WAX MUSEUM, in which Jed offers complete lists &
breaddowns of the various prizes & grants over the years -- worthwhile
pondering! It is, BTW, a superb analysis of the US poetry scene since
1940 -- a must for anybody on this list!
Pierre
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:10:54 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: ylang ylang
ylang ylang
- essential oil from northern Madagascar, used as a base for myriad perfumes.
Arguably best raw.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:57:30 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Jeff Hanson - Request
My apologies to the list, but Jeff Hanson, could you contact me backchannel?
I've misplaced your address, and need to talk with you. Thanks.
Sheila Murphy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 02:40:32 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Shandy-esque
--dare i say shandy-esque, or does that reveal me as one of those wonks
who took qualifying exams lo these many years ago --md
Anybody on this list who has NOT read Tristram Shandy should (to use
Dick Higgins' favorite word) correct that condition post haste.
One of the great sadnesses of the novel as a form is that the first one
should still be the best. (On the other hand, I haven't read the
original Marjorie Kemp, another such contender as I understand.)
But then I think of Chaucer as "strictly for pleasure" -- Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 03:35:43 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Tom Field
The following appeared in yesterday's SF Chronicle.
A memorial will be held Sunday for Tom Field, a noted Bay Area
painter. Mr. Field died of cancer November 14 in San Francisco. He
was 65.
Mr. Field was born in Fort Wayne, Ind. He attended the Fort
Wayne Art School before serving as an Army medic in Korea from 1951
to 1953.
He attended Black Mountain College, an experimental institution in
North Carolina, from 1953 to 1956. There, he studied painting under
Joseph Fiore and humanities under the poets Charles Olson and
Robert Creeley.
In 1956, he came to San Francisco and became a friend of many Beat
writers. He joined Albert Saijo, Lew Welch and Philip Whalen to
found a Zen Buddhist community called Hyphen House.
He met Jack Kerouac, and appears in Kerouac's novel ``Big Sur''
under the pseudonym Lanny Meadows.
Mr. Field worked as a merchant seaman in the Sailors' Union of the
Pacific, of which he remained a member until 1969. He had a studio
in North Beach for many years, and later spent 10 years painting
in a cabin at Bodega Bay.
His paintings were shown at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art
and several leading galleries. This year his work was included in a
group show in Vancouver, British Columbia.
As an artist, he was associated with Jess Collins, Knute Stiles
and other painters of the so-called San Francisco Renaissance, as
well as with poets Robert Duncan, Jack Spicer, Ebbe Borregaard and
others.
A memorial will be held at 1 p.m. at East-West House, 733 Baker
Street, San Francisco.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:16:30 GMT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Beard <beard@MET.CO.NZ>
Subject: Shandy & Diderot
>Anybody on this list who has NOT read Tristram Shandy should (to use
>Dick Higgins' favorite word) correct that condition post haste.
& if you enjoyed Shandy you'll love Diderot's "Jacques the Fatalist". As
entertaining as Richardson, as radical, and more readable (if only because C18
French translated into C20 English is easier to read than C18 English). An anti
-novel before the novel was really established. Didn't Kundera turn this into a
play?
The Enlightenment gets a bad press from post-structuralist types, but my
understanding of the Enlightenment has always centred more upon Diderot than
sour old Rousseau. Try also "D'Alembert's Dream", a speculative dialogue that
prefigures evolution, neural networks, artificial intelligence and theories of
consciousness.
Tom Beard.
______________________________________________________________________________
I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
I am/a dark place. | beard@met.co.nz
I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://www.met.co.nz/
and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 07:45:35 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Guggenheim 95
In-Reply-To: <199512071802.NAA29962@loki.hum.albany.edu>
I like Pierre's rather Freudian typo--a "breaddown" rather than a
"breakdown" of the US poetry scene. It manages to suggest both Bread Loaf
and "bed down." 'Nuff said.
Gwyn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:05:44 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tom Field
Has anyone read Lew Welch's ba thesis on stein?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:26:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: ULMER SPRING <ulmer@COOPER.EDU>
Subject: an announcement for a show.
if anyone is in town
i am having a show with sarah rianhard
at the cooper union houghton gallery
7 east 7th st. manhattan,
dec 12-16, opening dec 12, 6-8 pm.
text, photos, and videos.
all are invited.
spring
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:26:24 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Tom Field
Dear Ron,
Thank you for posting the notice of Tom Field's death. Of course the
immediate interest in Field here in SF is because of his connection with
Kerouac and the "Lanny Meadows" thing. Of course this will be all to the
good in the longer run, since Stephen Schwartz (!!!) will perhaps haul out
the big guns for the planned retrospective Field show which Paul A;exander,
Ernie Edwards, etc are planning, particularly when he sees the "Kerouac"
painting, the collaboration between TF and JK, a typical late fifties kind
of AE thing by Field (in other words totally gorgeous) which Kerouac
"defaced" by adding a scrawled men's room graffito of his own cock and
balls. It is just *meant* for the Chronicle, Francis Ford Coppola, Lisa
Phillips etc. I will send you the notice from the B A R which rounds out
the picture a bit more by details some of Tom's work with Duncan, Helen
Adam, Joanne Kyger, Robin Blaser, etc. In the meantime let me honor his
memory by posting Spicer's poem from "Homage to Creeley." (The odd thing,
though it was entirely a coincidence, is that Tom Field, Paul and James
Alexander and Lew Ellingham, were all from Fort Wayne, Indiana, which must
have been the Tulsa, or Topeka, of another generation)-Love, Kevin
Fort Wayne
The messages come through at last:
"We are the ghosts of Christmas past
Our bodies are a pudding boiled
With sixteen serpents and a narrow blade."
I asked my silly messengers to sing it again
"We are the advantages that hate all men
Our bodies are a pudding boiled
With sixteen serpents and a narrow blade."
For there are poems and Christmas pies
And loves like our while you blink your eyes
And love rises up like a butterfly
"Our bodies are a pudding boiled
With sixteen serpents and a narrow blade."
--------------------------------------
A dialogue between The Poet and passed Christmases.
Fort Wayne stands on the American fortress between California and
reality. It is a geographical point.
The passed Christmases want to know more than they have any right
to. So does The Poet. Neither in the last analysis is satisfied.
The pudding is made of a number of serpents that move among us and
a knife to cut them with.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:31:56 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: purism on the list
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:43:41 -0500 from
<MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Maria,
I missed the point in the renga where Uncle Toby actually lights his pipe.
Perhaps Trim was doing this for him, in _his own dream of books._
Cheers,
Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:11:56 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Prisonhouse of Lists
In-Reply-To: <199512080506.AAA28712@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Maria -- two strands have gooten conflated, no doubt due to my tendency
towards shorthand -- What Jose posted, and what I was thanking him for,
was a series of readings on another subject -- My ref. to prison reading
lists was describing lists of things poets (in this case Carrington &
Bremser) read _while_ they were incarcerated -- (It was Carrington's
jailhouse subscription to _Floating Bear_, you may recall, that got
DiPrima and Baraka arrested for sending obscenity thru the mails -- the
jail censor read Carrington's copy & called the Feds) --
That's "Joe," not "Jose"
Though Mr. Guitart, in addition to his other fine works, has really good
poetry in the anthology edited by Ray Gonzales --
And the errors above in this message indicate that I am once again in
L.A. -- upside is that I don't have to commute on the I5 for the next
12!!! months -- downside is that I'm back at that uncorrectable keyboard
-- but maybe now I'll have time to load some other system onto my laptop --
Great new books in my mail from P. Phillips and S. Ratcliffe -- not only
is the poetry superb, the cover art is suitable, as they say, for framing,,,
and that's "Jorge" -- can't type to save my life this morning --
$$^%*&%^&*^*)&(^&*(&^)^ will try again Sat., when my digits is rested
apologies in advance to anybody else whose name I mangle this week --
payback fro all the years of people pronouncing me "All done" or turning
me into a "Nelson"
aldon (pronounced "al dun")
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:49:55 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: purism on the list
Gale Nelson wrote:
> I missed the point in the renga where Uncle Toby actually lights his pipe.
> Perhaps Trim was doing this for him, in _his own dream of books._
_____
Gale,
Toby lights his cigar in the forthcoming renga, _Zeno
Unbound_.
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:56:03 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: purism on the list
To no-one in particular--
ever feel like a cardboard cutout, a parody of a promise, of a past?
When the "wit machine
dries up....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:13:13 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: purism on the list
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:49:55 +0000 from <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Jordan,
I'm glad to hear that Uncle Toby lights up -- but will he inhale?
Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:21:48 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steven Howard Shoemaker <ss6r@FERMI.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: our daily bread/th
I've set up a separate server for all those wanting to discuss MLA
shmooze strategies. For subscription instructions, go to
http://www.chicago95.kissass.html
This morning i stopped whining about mla and the state of the academy &
almost immediately had a profound insight into the very essence of
poetics. Then i graded some student essays & forgot what it was...
Anyhoo, responding to Marissa's post of a couple days ago, here's Kay
Boyle's poem "Poets," which kicks off Codrescu's Up Late anthology.
I also remember there being good stuff on hunger-writing in Henry Miller's
Tropic of Cancer. And check out Mina Loy's Insel--great surrealist
body-stuff, w/ a main char. so thin he disappears when he turns sideways.
Sorry there's no "poetics" in this post. Mebbe next time.
steve
Poets, minor or major, should arrange to remain
slender,
Cling to their skeletons, not batten
On provender, not fatten the lean spirit
In its isolated cell, its solitary chains.
The taught paunch ballooning in its network of veins
Explodes from the cummerbund. The hardening artery
of neck
Cannot be masked by turtle-throated cashmere or
foulard of mottled silk.
Poets, poets, use rags instead; use rags and consider
That Poe did not lie in the morgue swathed
Beyond recognition in fat. Consider on this late March
Afternoon, with violet and crocus outside, fragile as
glass,
That the music of Marianne Morre's small polished
bones
Was not muffled, the score not lost between thighs as
thick as bass-fiddles
Or cat-gut muted by dropsy. Baudelaaire did not throttle
on corpulence,
Rimbaud not strangle on his own grease. In the
unleafed trees, as I write,
Birds flicker, lighter than lace. They are the lean spirit,
Beaks asking for curmbs, their voices like reeds.
William Carlos Williams sat close, close to the table
always, always,
Close to the typewriter keys, his body not held at bay
by a drawbridge of flesh
Under his doctor's dress, no gangway to lower, letting
the sauces,
The starches, the strong liquor, enter and exit
With bugles blowing. Over and over he was struck thin
By the mallet of beauty, the switchblade of sorrow,
died slim as a gondola,
Died curved like the fine neck of a swan.
These were not gaagged, strangled, outdone by the
presence
Of banquet selves. They knew words make their way
through navel and pore,
More weightless as thistle, as dandelion drift,
unencumbered.
Death happens to fatten on poets' glutted hearts.
("Dylan!"
Death calls, and poet scrambles drunk and alone to
what were once swift, bony feet,
Casting a monstroud shadow of gargantuan flesh before
he crashes.)
Poets, remember your skeletons. In youth or dotage,
remain as light as ashes.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:40:34 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: purism on the list
> To no-one in particular--
> ever feel like a cardboard cutout, a parody of a promise, of a past?
>
> When the "wit machine
> dries up....
If you are tired of your own past, please borrow mine. I find pasts quite
overrated, and they tend to keep one from the work at hand.
Bests
Dick Higgins
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:00:37 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ange Mlinko/PWS/International Thomson Publishing
<Ange_Mlinko@DELMAR.COM>
Subject: wilderness petition
In _A Poetics_ Bernstein compares poets to the wilderness--out there,
somewhere, and quietly,
the air is being purified. For the sake of our metaphorical counterparts, sign
& pass on!--Ange Mlinko
Message-Id: <9512081332.AA26317@sum-1.MIT.EDU>
To: mitoc@MIT.EDU
Subject: wilderness petition-please sign!
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 08:32:01 EST
From: Benjamin T Bruening <muawiya@MIT.EDU>
Content-Length: 7000
- - ------- Forwarded Message
- --------------------------
Subject: Canyonlands Petition
! * ! * ! * SIGN THIS PETITION IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT,
THE DESERT, PROTECTION OF PRISTINE WILDERNESS AREAS! * ! *
As this editorial in the New York Times states, two very very bad bad
bad bills: HR 1745 and its senate counterpart S884, are currently
proposing wilderness annihilation in the beautiful desert lands of
Utah. Read the following article if you want more details. This is a
NATIONAL issue, and an issue of misrepresentation-- the people of Utah
do not want this bill passed and their representatives are not
listening.
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIGN YOUR NAME TO THIS LIST AND SEND IT ON TO 5
OTHER PEOPLE.
IF YOU ARE A TENTH PERSON TO SIGN YOUR NAME, FORWARD THE LIST BACK TO
ME: whittle@owlnet.rice.edu
(i.e. the 10th, 20th, 30th person will forward this message to me in
progress)
I will compile the petition and send it to the important senators,
etc.
PETITION BEGINS HERE:
"I do not support wilderness annihilation bills HR 1745 and S884. I
am in favor of Senator Hinchey's and the Utah citizen's proposal to
designate AT LEAST 5.7 million acres of PROTECTED wilderness in
southern Utah."
# NAME E-MAIL (not obligatory) PLACE OF RESIDENCE
- -- -------------- ------------------------- -------------
1. Elizabeth Whittlesey whittle@owlnet.rice.edu Texas, orig. Utah
2. Cori Nelson corin@leland.stanford.edu CA, orig. Utah
3. Erin Johnson ejohnson@minerva.cis.yale.edu CT, orig. Utah
4. Sung-Min Chung sucker@minerva.cis.yale.edu CT, orig. MD
5. Thomas Socci NY, NY
6. Sofia Yakren NY
7. Elizabeth Kanter MA, orig. NJ
8. Amelia Kaplan akaplan@fas.harvard.edu NJ
9. Emily Hobson ehobson@fas.harvard.edu CA
10. Adam Dylan Hefty hefty@fas.harvard.edu KS
11. Eric Albert edalbert@fas.harvard.edu NJ
12. Daniel Mason dmason@fas.harvard.edu CA
13. Joshua Mooney moondog@dartmouth.edu CA
14. Erica Brandling-Bennett beeb@dartmouth.edu VA
15. Allison Brugg Alli.Brugg@Dartmouth.edu CT
16.Leah Campbell Cams@Dartmouth.edu NY
17.Tamar Kraft-Stolar tk38@cornell.edu NY
18. Zoe Weinrobe zrw1@cornell.edu MA
19. Anna Spraycar ams40@cornell.edu MD
20. Jessica Shattuck MD
21. Karen E. Thomas kethomas@phoenix.princeton.edu CA
22. Steven W. Thomas Providence, RI
23. Chris Harley harley@zoology.washington.edu
24. Jennie Hoffman WA
25. Eric Sanford sanforde@bcc.orst.edu OR
26. Philip Brownell brownell@bcc.orst.edu OR
27. Ben Brownell bbrownell@pomona.edu OR
28. Brian Cross bcross@pomona.edu CA
29. Nathaniel Gilbert ngilbert@pomona.edu CA, WA
30. David Severson severson@lclark.edu OR, WA
31. Benjamin Kalm kalm@lclark.edu UT
32. Samantha Riesenfeld riesenf@fas.harvard.edu UT
33. Karen Lepri lepri@fas.harvard.edu MA
34. Becca Lowenhaupt rlowenh@fas.harvard.edu MA, MO
35. Frank Gorke gorke@fas.harvard.edu MA, MA
36. Jeff Evans jevans@itsmail1.hamilton.edu MA, NY
37. Scott Ribich sribich@mit.edu MA, MA
38. Derek Bruening iye@mit.edu UT
39. Benjamin Bruening muawiya@mit.edu UT
40. Georgianna M. Lirot lirot@mit.edu MA, CT
41. Jeff Zifcak RI, MA
42. Tanja Brull CA
43. Ange Mlinko MA
- ------Editorial in the New York Times, November 15, 1995----------
. . .There is another test just around the corner.
Companion bills in the House and Senate would take
about 22 million acres of Federal land in Utah now
run by the Federal Bureau of Land Management,
give wilderness protection to a mere 1.8 million
acres in southeastern Utah's fabled canyonlands
and open the rest to mining, road-building and
development.
The bills are sponsored by Representative
James Hansen and Senator Orrin Hatch, both Utah
Republicans. A competing bill sponsored by
Representative Maurice Hinchey of New York is much
better. It would protect 5.7 million acres, which
environmentalists think is the minimum require
maintain the integrity of the canyonlands.
According to several polls, Utah's rank-and-file citizens
prefer the Hinchey approach and believe that there
is more to be gained from tourism if the terrain is
left alone than from bulldozing some of the nation's
most fragile and scenic lands. But Utah's
Congressional delegation prefers the bulldozer.
Critics of the Hatch-Hansen bill have two
further complaints. First, it would undermine the
intent of the 1964 Wilderness Act--an act that
designates wilderness as a place "where man him-
self is but a visitor"--by allowing development
even in the 1.8 million protected acres. Second, it
forecloses the possibility of future wilderness
designations. The B.L.M. will continue to manage the 20
million Utah acres left unprotected by the Hansen-
Hatch bills. But the bills say the land must hence-
forth be reserved for commercial users. Wilderness
designation will no longer be an option.
Finally, victory for the Hansen-Hatch bills
could provide smoother sailing for other measures
that are aimed at stripping the Federal
Government of control over public lands. The most brazen
of these are identical bills sponsored by Senator
Craig Thomas, Republican of Wyoming, and Mr.
Hansen that would transfer to the states every
single acre managed anywhere by the B.L.M., some
270 million acres in all. A variant has been offered
by Senator Conrad Burns, Republican of Montana,
who would establish a commission to identify
national forests and other public lands that could be
sold or transferred to the states or private interest.
The Thomas-Hansen measure proposes a give-
away. The Burns bill threatens a national yard sale
of the country's natural heirlooms. Mr. Thomas
says the lands would be better administered "by the
people who truly understand the needs of local
citizens. That, of course, means Western state
legislatures, which tend to be far more inclined to
exploit public resources for commercial gain than
even this Congress.
These are destructive ideas, and the only sure
way to stop them is to send a clear conservationist
signal by defeating the Utah lands bill. The main
hope is on the House floor, where a growing group of
moderate Republicans is having strong second
thoughts about legislation that endangers the
environment. The preservation of a sound national
public lands strategy may lie in their hands.
- ------- End of Forwarded Message
------- End of Forwarded Message
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:36:54 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa Januzzi <Marisa.Januzzi@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Utah (redefines 'open field')
In-Reply-To: <199512060620.XAA13224@web.azstarnet.com>
John C., Maria, Ulmer, Tenney, and all:
Poetry, pedagogy, performance... why distinguish? snapshots from the same
hurricane
Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions for the class on food, hunger &
writing. The whole idea for a class on hunger came to me not while
cruising Dorothy Day or the Pearl Of Great Price but at the Whitney Fluxus
show-- You were there, Jordan, and You, and You... anyway I was standing there
staring at a wall of empty food containers, the remnants of an entire years
american diet assembled by.... WHO was it? I wish I could remember. Does
anybody?
Since you asked, Tenney, I landed from outta nowhere in a very
traditional Italian Catholic family-- where food has pretty much
sacramental status (compare with the Mormon view of wine and coffee...)
Since Mormons tithe, it seems that a solid percentage of every prosperous
household out here goes to the purchase of bologna sandwiches for the
hungry. Every day, hundreds of thousands of plastic bologna pucks are
delivered to soup kitchens. It's both wonderful and insane at once,
all that bologna. The impulse (indeed the imperative) to "love one's
neighbor" AND the money are in place out here, and hence the University's
offering up to $12,000 to departments willing to integrate
service-learning into the curriculum. Steve Tatum has always been
supportive of the idea, but now he's chair, and when he saw the figures,
he was especially chipper to release me for this (Steve's a great boss)
-- and me: I felt the need to decode the message of all that bologna.
"then I shrank behind my guide/Because there was no other shelter"
two lines in the Inferno (non gli era altra grotta/dante behind virgil
behind dante) that are sexy and churchlike enough
Ulmer: Holy Anorexia, Ellman, Walker-Bynum, Wuthering Heights, Simone Weil,
and Princess Di on 20/20.... your ideas sparked plenty of my own. Maud
Ellman's book IS really great.
Maria, here I am thinking, "yeah, precisely, the problem in any
service learning class is the relation to the [human] subject[s]..."
and then I realize that seems to be a problem in poetry and crit as
well. I remember the brouhaha in a seminar over Barthes' prose about the
"Asian eye" in EMPIRE OF SIGNS... everyone fingered the troubling aspects
of that book right away, but no one felt comfortable talking about
Barthes's pleasure in HANDLING the human subject.
Your reading list is incredible (AUGUSTINE as addict!! did you see Andy
DelBanco's piece on the culture of AA in the NEW YORKER last spring?--
100% applicable).
Y'all are timber in the woods
--Marisa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:49:44 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa Januzzi <Marisa.Januzzi@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: our daily bread/th
In-Reply-To: <199512081921.OAA100630@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU>
Steven
It's so funny; INSEL is so much Bronte and of course I'm writing a
chapter on it right now (more or less) and so of course I forgot it
re Kay Boyle: "who knew?" that number has a fine drape on the page
has anybody read Julia Vinograd? is it true that, whoever she is, she's
written *39* books of poetry? ----Marisa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:01:55 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Watts <cwatts@SFU.CA>
Subject: Blaser conference publications
For anyone interested in the Recovery of the Public World Conference in
honor of Robin Blaser that took place last June 1st through 4th in
Vancouver, two magazines have just been published which contain papers
given at the conference as well as work by some of the poets who were at
the conference. Sulfur 37 has a talk given by Robin Blaser on the
opening night of the conference as well as essays by Jed Rasula and Peter
Quartermain, along with a foreword by me; as well, there's new writing by
Anne Waldman, Jerome Rothenberg, Michael McClure, and Rachel Blau
DuPlessis, all of whom were at the conference. You can get Sulfur from
Small Press Distribution or from c/o English Department, Eastern Michigan
University, Ypsilanti, MI 48197; phone/fax: 313-483-9787. Single issues
are $9, subscriptions are $14/year for two issues
As well, West Coast Line Number 17 is just out, containing a talk by
Charles Bernstein, also given on the opening evening of the conference,
and papers by Robert Hullot-Kentor, Kevin Killian, and Daphne Marlatt, as
well as new writing by Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Michele Leggott, Leslie
Scalapino, Michael McClure, David Levi Strauss, and Jed Rasula,
conference-goers all. West Coast Line can be obtained from SPD, also from
2027 East Academic Annex, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C. Canada
V5A 1S6. Single issue copies are $10; subscriptions are $20/year for
three issues. Number 17 is the Fall 1995 issue.
Also, I hear from Jenny Penberthy that the Capilano Review big double
issue of new writing by many of the conference participants is in the
press. When it's out I'll put a notice on the list.
Plans are still going forward for a publication of many of the papers
presented at the conference; watch for more news on this publication in
the spring or fall of 1996.
Best to all you geysers, geezers, guysies & geezees,
Charles Watts
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 22:44:53 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: our daily bread/th
>has anybody read Julia Vinograd? is it true that, whoever whe is, she's
>written *39* books of poetry?
the latest i have ov hers describers her as "a berkley street poet"
and credits her with 28 books... but that was way back in '89...
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 21:11:21 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <tbjn@WELL.COM>
Subject: Re: purism on the list
In-Reply-To: <30C84283.5AF6@panix.com>
On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Jordan Davis wrote:
> Gale Nelson wrote:
> > I missed the point in the renga where Uncle Toby actually lights his pipe.
> > Perhaps Trim was doing this for him, in _his own dream of books._
> _____
>
>
> Gale,
>
> Toby lights his cigar in the forthcoming renga, _Zeno
> Unbound_.
>
> Jordan
>
The burden of proof here is on the locutor.
Tom
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 22:10:55 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Steven the Steelworker: Cures for Boredom (fwd)
Hi all. I'm forwarding this because I remember us talking about some
class issues before and kitsch poetry and now poetry and work, and also
just because if some of this isn't performance art... Reminds me of some
of the things we do. Gab.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 06:16:42 -1000
From: Steven Rubio <srubio@garnet.berkeley.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of <bad@ENGLISH-SERVER.HSS.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Steven the Steelworker: Cures for Boredom
There were some remarkably creative people at my plant. All of them
spent their idle time at work concocting magnificent schemes, pranks,
Rube Goldberg contraptions, drawings, just about anything to both
kill the boredom and give an outlet for creativity. Sometimes I think
that was the real shame of factory work ... not the lost hours doing
boring work, not the crushed fingers or lacerated elbows, but the
waste of creative talent. Who knows, maybe all of us were never going
to "amount to anything" anyway, but sometimes people would create
marvels of inanity and you'd realize in a better world, they'd have a
better place to demonstrate their abilities.
But when I give examples of their work ... well, the examples are
stupid, because we were all stoopid from working there, so you would
produce creative works that were barely creative. One night a guy
balanced a pushbroom on his pinkie ... the next night he balanced it
on his nose and called it the "Broom Of Doom" ... the next night he
stood on the forks of a lifttruck while the driver raised him high
into the air while he balanced the broom on his nose and called it
the "Forklift Of Doom" ... soon, all of us were creating our own
versions of Doom (mine was called the "Bundle-Turner Of Doom" ... the
bundleturner being a machine that took stacks of sheets of steel and
flipped them upside down ... I would climb into the machine, someone
would hit the "flip" button, and I'd get turned upside down). In
retrospect, it's childish, even petty stuff, but it was the best
people could do when they were bored stiff and it was noisy and dirty
and you knew at least you'd get paid at the end of the week.
The Coil Department had two large machines that cut coils into
sheets, and sometimes when you were bored you would take your finger
and "write" stuff in the dust on the overhead lights ... messages for
the workers on the other machine, like "Fuck You Line #2" or some
similar bon mot ... then they would climb up to their lights and
finger into the dust, "Fuck YOU Line #1." One day the plant manager
actually looked up for a change and saw the various fuckyous scrawled
into the dust. He immediately had someone wipe the lights clean, and
when we arrived at work that evening, we were told in no uncertain
terms that there would be no more writing Fuck You in the dirt on the
overhead lights! Well, I hated to see my free speech curtailed, so I
took this pole, must have been 20-30 feet long ... you used it to
flick a breaker switch in an electrical emergency, the breaker box
for some reason being located on the ceiling. I took that pole, taped
a black marking pen to the end, climbed on my machine, held the pole
in the air and used it to write "Line Two Sux" on a beam that held up
the roof, about a gazillion feet above us.
One more ... one night in our boredom, we took a few hundred paper
stickers, rolled them into pointed paper darts, and uses steel pipes
to have a blowgun war that lasted most of the evening. We had so much
fun we wanted to play again the next night, but we didn't want anyone
to find our paper darts and we didn't want to make new ones, so I
took them all and stuck them in a cabinet that held counters for
marking off how many sheets of steel we had processed, figgering no
one ever looked in a place like that.
Only the paper darts fucked up the counters, and the next morning,
the machine has to stop while they try to figger out why the counters
aren't working, and the electrician and the mechanic and the plant
manager are all standing around scratching their heads when the
electrician decides to open the cabinet, and out falls hundreds of
blue paper darts ...
Steven
http://garnet.berkeley.edu:4251
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 00:13:09 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: our daily bread/th
In-Reply-To: <199512081921.OAA100630@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU>
Marisa, how about Jessica Hagedorn's _The Dogeaters_? Lots of hunger. Gab.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 05:51:31 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: The Prisonhouse of Lists
Great new books in my mail from P. Phillips and S. Ratcliffe -- not
only is the poetry superb, the cover art is suitable, as they say, for
framing,,,
Thus spake Aldon (pronounced All Done)
Haven't seen Steve's book, but I want to second the good words re Pat
Phillips' Ruin. Great little book. Very eery cover.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 08:14:48 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Shandy & Diderot
LOve it love it love it.
And by the way, for others who like 18th Century experiments, anybody
noticed the writings of Sir Timothy Dexter? He was an 18th Century
profiteer in Massachusetts, who after the revolutioon affected curious
dress and recreated a past for himself, but he handed out extraordinary
visionary political tracts written in a prose which are like Blake and
Joyce. Then too there are William Billings's "Jargon (A Hymn to
Dissonance," an extraordinarily beautiful polytonal composition and the
circular musical notation (endless of course) from the cover of one of his
music pamphlets. We 'Mellicans had a fine "experimental tradition" before
we started gumming up the works by over-systematizing it.
Very bests
Dick Higgins
>>Anybody on this list who has NOT read Tristram Shandy should (to use
>>Dick Higgins' favorite word) correct that condition post haste.
>
>& if you enjoyed Shandy you'll love Diderot's "Jacques the Fatalist". As
>entertaining as Richardson, as radical, and more readable (if only because C18
>French translated into C20 English is easier to read than C18 English). An anti
>-novel before the novel was really established. Didn't Kundera turn this into a
>play?
>
>The Enlightenment gets a bad press from post-structuralist types, but my
>understanding of the Enlightenment has always centred more upon Diderot than
>sour old Rousseau. Try also "D'Alembert's Dream", a speculative dialogue that
>prefigures evolution, neural networks, artificial intelligence and theories of
>consciousness.
>
>
> Tom Beard.
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>I/am a background/process, shrunk to an icon. | Tom Beard
>I am/a dark place. | beard@met.co.nz
>I am less/than the sum of my parts... | Auckland, New Zealand
>I am necessary/but not sufficient, | http://www.met.co.nz/
>and I shall teach the stars to fall | nwfc/beard/www/hallway.html
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 06:05:32 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: our daily bread/th
>has anybody read Julia Vinograd? is it true that, whoever she is,
she's
>written *39* books of poetry? ----Marisa
>
I'm sure that she has. Julia, aka the "bubble lady" of Berkeley,
graduated from UC and went to Iowa City in the 60s, then after a stint
in NYC (which I know about only because Paul Carroll mentions it in the
bio note to her work in his anthology, The Young American Poets (Big
Table Books, 1968, intro by James Dickey)), settled in in Berkeley.
She's lived on SSI and been a street poet in the most literal sense for
a quarter of century.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:39:53 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ray Davis <raydavis@BEST.COM>
Subject: Re: Shandy & Diderot
One of my favorite novels is George Gascoigne's 1573 experiment in New
Narrative, "A Discourse of the Adventures Passed by Master F.J.". Gascoigne
took the standard Elizabethan editorial apparatus (best known to most
readers via Shakespeare's sonnets) and, by making the fictional editor a
gossip as well as a thief of intellectual property, wove an acid roman a
clef around his occasional poems.
In a stunning gambit of self-plagiarism and self-protection, Gascoigne
later reprinted the material as a "fable translated out of the Italian
riding tales of Bartello," cutting down on the amount of rewriting needed
by announcing on the second page, "And bicause I do suppose that Leonora is
the same name whiche wee call Elinor in English, and that Francischina also
doth import none other than Fraunces, I will so entitle them as to our own
countriemen may be moste perspicuous."
An inspiration to us all,
Ray
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 17:51:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shandy & Diderot
Dear Ray Davis---thanks for the Gascoigne. You claim that it was a
stunning gambit of both "self-plagiarism and self-protection" that
allowed him to cut down on the amount of rewriting needed to recontext-
ualize the poetic material by incorporating them into a more narrative
form. Or am I misreading you? Anyway, I don't know if it's actually best
to read this simply as a maneouver of laziness, a time-saving device.
I guess I'm more interested in the "self-protection" than the "self-
plagiarism", for it seems self-protective in terms that it deals with
a convention that is still very dominant today--the convention that
insofar as an "I" is used in a poem it is often taken as "the poet
itself" speaking (unless it's a blatant dramatic monologue spoken by
something like hitler on one hand, or a LANGUAGE poem type in which
"I' is deprivileged and decentered by a proliferation of shifting
pronouns, etc.). Yet what Gascoigne's form allows him is to have his
cake and eat it too---to severely question the authenticity of the "I"
while at the same time writing as if FROM within it, an achievement
as rare today as not---though Bob Perelman, for instance, seems to
be moving closer to it---in his pieces in the new raddle moon--that
actually sutain dialogue between characters---something the more
"purist" l poets (Andrews for instance) I have a hunch would consider
heresy (Harryman too). Oops, sorry, I was going to try to keep this
"safe" and ostensibly out of the realm of coterie politics....
chris
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 17:25:16 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Shandy & Diderot
> Dear Ray Davis---thanks for the Gascoigne. You claim that it was a
> stunning gambit of both "self-plagiarism and self-protection" that
> allowed him to cut down on the amount of rewriting needed to recontext-
> ualize the poetic material by incorporating them into a more narrative
> form. Or am I misreading you? Anyway, I don't know if it's actually best
> to read this simply as a maneouver of laziness, a time-saving device.
> I guess I'm more interested in the "self-protection" than the "self-
> plagiarism", for it seems self-protective in terms that it deals with
> a convention that is still very dominant today--the convention that
> insofar as an "I" is used in a poem it is often taken as "the poet
> itself" speaking (unless it's a blatant dramatic monologue spoken by
> something like hitler on one hand, or a LANGUAGE poem type in which
> "I' is deprivileged and decentered by a proliferation of shifting
> pronouns, etc.). Yet what Gascoigne's form allows him is to have his
> cake and eat it too---to severely question the authenticity of the "I"
> while at the same time writing as if FROM within it, an achievement
> as rare today as not---though Bob Perelman, for instance, seems to
> be moving closer to it---in his pieces in the new raddle moon--that
> actually sutain dialogue between characters---something the more
> "purist" l poets (Andrews for instance) I have a hunch would consider
> heresy (Harryman too). Oops, sorry, I was going to try to keep this
> "safe" and ostensibly out of the realm of coterie politics....
> chris
Want to know another fascinating French piece from times gone by? Try the
Anonymous "Com=E9die des proverbes" ca. 1573. I found it by acxcident when I
was doiung pattern poetry researchn and ordered a microfilm from the
Biblioth=E8que Natiopnale in Paruis. It was on it. My copy is now in the
Getty.
But Lord Timothy Dexter is my real favorite 18th Century experimewntal
prose writer. Quite mad, really.
Bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:48:09 +0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: A Simple Query
In-Reply-To: <01HYM1D2Y4BMHV1O25@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Has there ever been a performance (and/or recording) of Zukofsky's "A" 24?
If so, what was it like/how did it work?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 20:42:04 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: A Simple Query
>Has there ever been a performance (and/or recording) of Zukofsky's "A" 24?
>If so, what was it like/how did it work?
I seem to recall that Zukofsky didn't liketo do readings. "What's the
matter? Can't they read it for themselves?" seemed to be his attitude.
That's what I was told.
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 22:41:06 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: EFFector Online 08.20 * Censorship Protests & CDA Update (fwd)
Apologies if you've all seen this already. But, here tis... Gab.
========================================================================
________________ _______________ _______________
/_______________/\ /_______________\ /\______________\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/ ||||||||||||||||| / ////////////////
C E N S O R E D
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/ ||||| \////
========================================================================
EFFector Online Volume 08 No. 20 Dec 9, 1995 editors@eff.org
A Publication of the Electronic Frontier Foundation ISSN 1062-9424
IN THIS ISSUE:
ALERT: Mon. - Internet Censorship Protest Rally in San Francisco
ALERT: Tue. - Global Internet Day of Protest Against Censorship Bills
Internet Day of Protest: Tuesday December 12, 1995
What You Must Do On Tuesday December 12, 1995
List of Participating Organizations
Where Can I Learn More?
Update on Internet Censorship Bills
'Let Freedom Ring' - EFF Op-Ed on Internet Censorship
[Newsbytes - skipped for this issue again, due to urgency of lead articles]
Upcoming Events
Quote of the Day
What YOU Can Do
Administrivia
* See http://www.eff.org/Alerts/ or ftp.eff.org, /pub/Alerts/ for more
information on current EFF activities and online activism alerts! *
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Mon. - Internet Censorship Protest Rally in San Francisco
------------------------------------------------------------------
Spread the word!
*** NETIZENS!! RALLY AGAINST CENSORSHIP ***
Amendment I: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble."
**PROTEST ** PROTEST ** PROTEST ** PROTEST ** PROTEST ** PROTEST **
It's like illiterates telling you what to read. On December 6 members of
the House Conference Committee on Telecommunications Reform approved a
proposal to censor free speech in cyberspace. If the measures are adopted,
the Net and online media will become the most heavily regulated media in
the United States. They *will not* enjoy the First Amendment freedoms now
afforded to print media. Instead, online publishers and users will be held
to a vague and patently un-Constitutional "indecency" standard. "Violators"
will be subject to fines of up to $100,000 and prison terms of up to five
years.
In response, ALL members of the Bay Area media, online, Internet, new
media, and telecommunications communities are invited to participate in a
protest rally to express our outrage that the politicians in Congress
(which is not even connected to the Internet!) are attempting to destroy
our First Amendment rights in cyberspace, and directly attack our
livelihoods.
Help stop the demagogs in Washington! There is nothing "decent" about
denying free speech to us, our children, and our children's children.
Preserve our Constitutional rights! Join us!
WHEN: Monday, December 11, 1995 12:00 - 1:00 PM (PST)
WHERE: South Park (between 2nd and 3rd, Bryant and Brannon) San Francisco.
SPEAKERS: To be announced [including John Gilmore, Jim Warren, Dave
Winer, Mike Godwin, Howard Rheingold]
BRING: Attention-grabbing posters, signs, and banners that demonstrate your
committment to free speech and expression, and your feelings about
Congress.
FOR UPDATED INFORMATION: http://www.hotwired.com/staff/digaman
(Although this event is being organized in the offices of Wired magazine
and HotWired, we are *actively* seeking participation and support from all
members of the local community. Please forward this message to anyone you
think should attend, and to all relevant news groups.)
CONTACT: Todd Lappin -- 415-222-6241 -- protest@wired.com
------------------------------
Subject: ALERT Tue. - Global Internet Day of Protest Against Censorship Bills
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EFF has joined forces with the ACLU, CDT, EPIC, VTW, and other free
speech groups to organize a National Day of Protest on Tuesday, December
12, 1995, against Congressional attempts to censor the Internet.
We hope you will join us and hundreds of thousands of your fellow
net.citizens in this effort.
Congress is expected to cast a final vote on this issue next week.
The fate of the Internet as a viable medium for free expression,
education, and commerce hangs in the balance.
Please take a moment to read the attached alert and get ready to
flood Capitol Hill with phone calls, faxes, and email messages
on Tuesday. Please also forward this alert to all of your wired
friends.
Together we *can* make a difference. And we cannot afford to
fail at this.
CAMPAIGN TO STOP THE NET CENSORSHIP LEGISLATION IN CONGRESS
On Tuesday December 12, 1995, Join With Hundreds of Thousands
Of Your Fellow Internet Users In
A NATIONAL INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST
PLEASE WIDELY REDISTRIBUTE THIS DOCUMENT WITH THIS BANNER INTACT
REDISTRIBUTE ONLY UNTIL December 20, 1995
________________________________________________________________________
CONTENTS
Internet Day of Protest: Tuesday December 12, 1995
What You Must Do On Tuesday December 12, 1995
List of Participating Organizations
Where Can I Learn More?
________________________________________________________________________
INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST: TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995
Outrageous proposals to censor the Internet demand that the Internet
Community take swift and immediate action. We must stand up and let
Congress know that we will not tolerate their attempts to destroy this
medium! Please join hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens in a
National Day of Protest on Tuesday December 12, 1995.
As you know, on Wednesday December 6, 1995, the House Conference
Committee on Telecommunications Reform voted to impose far reaching and
unconstitutional "indecency" restrictions on the Internet and other
interactive media, including large commercial online services (such as
America Online, Compuserve, and Prodigy) and smaller Internet Service
Providers such as Panix, the Well, Echo, and Mindvox.
These restrictions threaten the very existence of the Internet and
interactive media as a viable medium for free expression, education,
commerce. If enacted, the Internet as we know it will never be the
same.
Libraries will not be able to put any books online that might
offend a child somewhere. No "Catcher in the Rye" or "Ulysses" on the net.
Internet Service Providers could face criminal penalties for allowing
children to subscribe to their Internet Services, forcing many small
companies to simply refuse to sell their services to anyone under 18. Worst
of all, everything you say and publish on the net will have to be "dumbed
down" to that which is acceptable to a child.
As Internet users, we simply must not allow this assault against the
Internet and our most basic freedoms to go unchallenged.
On Tuesday December 12, the organizations below are urging you to
join us in a NATIONAL DAY OF PROTEST. The goal is to flood key members of
the House and Senate with phone calls, faxes and email with the message
that the Internet community WILL NOT TOLERATE Congressional attempts to
destroy the Internet, limit our freedoms and trample on our rights.
Below are the phone, fax, and email address of several key members of
Congress on this issue and instructions on what you can do to join the
National Day of Protest to save the Net.
______________________________________________________________________
WHAT YOU MUST DO ON TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995
1. Throughout the day Tuesday December 12, please contact as many
members of Congress on the list below as you can. If you are only
able to make one call, contact House Speaker Newt Gingrich. Finally,
if the Senator or Representative from your state is on the list
below, be sure to contact him or her also.
2. Urge each Member of Congress to "stop the madness". Tell them that
they are about to pass legislation that will destroy the Internet as
an educational and commercial medium. If you are at a loss for
words, try the following sample communique:
Sample phone call:
Both the House and Senate bills designed to protect children
from objectionable material on the Internet will actually
destroy the Internet as an medium for education, commerce, and
political discourse. There are other, less restrictive ways to
address this issue.
I urge you to oppose both measures being proposed in the
conference committee. This is an important election issue to
me.
Sample letter (fax or email):
The Senate conferees are considering ways to protect children
from inappropriate material on the Internet. A vote for either
the House or Senate proposals will result in the destruction of
the Internet as a viable medium for free expression, education,
commerce. Libraries will not be able to put their entire book
collections online. Everyday people like me will risk massive
fines and prison sentences for public discussions someone s
somewhere might consider "indecent".
There are other, less restrictive ways to protect children from
objectionable material online. This is an important election
issue to me.
3. If you're in San Francisco, or near enough to get there, go to
the Rally Against Censorship from Ground Zero of the Digital Revolution:
WHEN: Monday, December 11, 1995 12:00 - 1:00 PM
WHERE: South Park (between 2nd and 3rd, Bryant and Brannon) San Francisco.
SPEAKERS: To be announced
BRING: Attention-grabbing posters, signs, and banners that demonstrate
your committment to free speech and expression, and your feelings
about Congress.
FOR UPDATED INFORMATION (including rain info):
http://www.hotwired.com/staff/digaman/
### THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT ###
4. Mail a note to protest@vtw.org to let us know you did your part.
Although you will not receive a reply due to the number of
anticipated responses, we'll be counting up the number of people that
participated in the day of protest.
P ST Name and Address Phone Fax
= == ======================== ============== ==============
R AK Stevens, Ted 1-202-224-3004 1-202-224-1044
R AZ McCain, John 1-202-224-2235 1-602-952-8702
senator_mccain@mccain.senate.gov
D HI Inouye, Daniel K. 1-202-224-3934 1-202-224-6747
R KS Dole, Robert 1-202-224-6521 1-202-228-1245
D KY Ford, Wendell H. 1-202-224-4343 1-202-224-0046
wendell_ford@ford.senate.gov
R MS Lott, Trent 1-202-224-6253 1-202-224-2262
R MT Burns, Conrad R. 1-202-224-2644 1-202-224-8594
conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov
D NE Exon, J. J. 1-202-224-4224 1-202-224-5213
D SC Hollings, Ernest F. 1-202-224-6121 1-202-224-4293
senator@hollings.senate.gov
R SD Pressler, Larry 1-202-224-5842 1-202-224-1259
larry_pressler@pressler.senate.gov
R WA Gorton, Slade 1-202-224-3441 1-202-224-9393
senator_gorton@gorton.senate.gov
D WV Rockefeller, John D. 1-202-224-6472 n.a.
senator@rockefeller.senate.gov
Dist ST Name, Address, and Party Phone Fax
==== == ======================== ============== ==============
6 GA Gingrich, Newt (R) 1-202-225-4501 1-202-225-4656
2428 RHOB georgia6@hr.house.gov
14 MI Conyers Jr., John (D) 1-202-225-5126 1-202-225-0072
2426 RHOB jconyers@hr.house.gov
1 CO Schroeder, Patricia (D) 1-202-225-4431 1-202-225-5842
2307 RHOB
18 TX Jackson-Lee, Sheila (D) 1-202-225-3816 1-202-225-3317
1520 LHOB
6 TN Gordon, Bart (D) 1-202-225-4231 1-202-225-6887
2201 RHOB
4. Forward this alert to all of your wired friends.
________________________________________________________________________
WHERE CAN I LEARN MORE?
At this moment, there are several organizations with WWW sites that now
have, or will have, information about the net censorship legislation and
the National Day Of Protest:
American Civil Liberties Union (ftp://ftp.aclu.org/aclu/)
Center for Democracy and Technology (http://www.cdt.org/)
Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org/)
Electronic Privacy Information Center (http://www.epic.org/)
Wired Magazine (http://www.hotwired.com/special/indecent/)
Voters Telecommunications Watch (http://www.vtw.org/)
________________________________________________________________________
LIST OF PARTICIPATING ORGANIZATIONS
In order to use the net more effectively, several organizations have
joined forces on a single Congressional net campaign to stop the
Communications Decency Act.
American Civil Liberties Union * American Communication Association *
American Council for the Arts * Arts & Technology Society * Association
of Alternative Newsweeklies * biancaTroll productions * Boston
Coalition for Freedom of Expression * Californians Against Censorship
Together * Center For Democracy And Technology * Centre for Democratic
Communications * Center for Public Representation * Citizen's Voice -
New Zealand * Cloud 9 Internet *Computer Communicators Association *
Computel Network Services * Computer Professionals for Social
Responsibility * Cross Connection * Cyber-Rights Campaign * CyberQueer
Lounge * Dorsai Embassy * Dutch Digital Citizens' Movement * ECHO
Communications Group, Inc. * Electronic Frontier Canada * Electronic
Frontier Foundation * Electronic Frontier Foundation - Austin *
Electronic Frontiers Australia * Electronic Frontiers Houston *
Electronic Frontiers New Hampshire * Electronic Privacy Information
Center * Feminists For Free Expression * First Amendment Teach-In *
Florida Coalition Against Censorship * FranceCom, Inc. Web Advertising
Services * Friendly Anti-Censorship Taskforce for Students * Hands
Off! The Net * Inland Book Company * Inner Circle Technologies, Inc. *
Inst. for Global Communications * Internet On-Ramp, Inc. * Internet
Users Consortium * Joint Artists' and Music Promotions Political Action
Committee * The Libertarian Party * Marijuana Policy Project *
Metropolitan Data Networks Ltd. * MindVox * MN Grassroots Party *
National Bicycle Greenway * National Campaign for Freedom of Expression
* National Coalition Against Censorship * National Gay and Lesbian Task
Force * National Public Telecomputing Network * National Writers Union
* Oregon Coast RISC * Panix Public Access Internet * People for the
American Way * Republican Liberty Caucus * Rock Out Censorship *
Society for Electronic Access * The Thing International BBS Network *
The WELL * Voters Telecommunications Watch
(Note: All 'Electronic Frontier' organizations are independent entities,
not EFF chapters or divisions.)
________________________________________________________________________
End Alert
[Intro text adapted from CDT & VTW copies of the alert.]
------------------------------
Subject: Update on Internet Censorship Bills
--------------------------------------------
The US House of Representatives members of the join conference committee
working on the telecom bill passed, Dec. 5, a gutted version of the White
amendment, that would criminalize "indecent" material online. The fight
now moves to the Senate side of that committee, which is dominated by
sponsors of unconstitutional censorship legislation. Needless to say,
they are not expected to uphold the First Amendement.
The larger Congress, however, may be another story. As public rallies
and online protests gear up, civil liberties organizations including EFF
are urging YOU to call your Senators and Representatives, as well as Dole
and Gingrich as Congressional leaders, to express your opinions on this
vital issue.
According to an e-press release from _American_Reporter_, this
online-only daily newspaper "threatened on Thursday to deliberately defy the
language of [the] U.S. House cyberporn proposal if it becomes law,
calling the measure a clear violation of the First Amendment." Other
individuals and organizations - including a judge - have similarly promised
civil disobedience, with people almost literally lining up to challenge
the bill in court should it pass. ACLU, EFF, and the National Writers
Union, among others, have indicated interest in mounting legal challenges
to any such censorship law.
The _Boston_Globe_ reports that at least one legislator, Rep. Ed Markey (D-MA)
is skeptical about the proposed new law. "Markey said there's a good
chance Congress won't finish work on the overall telecommunications bill
this year. Even if the bill is completed, a constitional challenge to
the law is very likely. Besides, the law won't stop people outside the
United States from posting pornography on the Internet." (from "Markey
Says Parents Key to Cyberporn Fight", Hiawatha Bray, _Boston_Globe_, Dec. 9).
Elizabeth Corcoran & Mike Mills report in the _Washington_Post_ that
Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-GA) intends to "narrow the scope"
of the legislation, working with Rep. Rick White (R-WA), who's own
proposal was gutted in the conference committee. The _Post_ suggests
that they will try to push the legislation back towards a "harmful to
minors" (obscenity) standard, rather than the vague indecency standard
expected to be reported out of the conf. committee early next week.
Gingrich's plan would essentially force to be subject to at
least some of the same tests as obscenity - material with cultural,
literary or scientific value would be exempted.
The next (and possibly last, for this issue) meeting of the conferees on
the telecom bill has been set for 2pm EST, Tue., Dec. 12. The telecom
bill conference report (that is, the final version of the bill) is
sheduled for a vote the week of Dec. 11.
------------------------------
Subject: 'Let Freedom Ring' - EFF Op-Ed on Internet Censorship
--------------------------------------------------------------
[This is the longer original version of an opinion-editorial piece published
Dec. 9, in the _New_York_Times_.]
Let Freedom Ring
Freedom of speech on the Internet, the worldwide network of
computers, is under attack from a variety of sources, both
public and private. Three preliminary decisions handed down
over the past couple of weeks against the Church of
Scientology and its related Religious Technology Center and
Bridge Publications, Inc., offer a glimpse into how complicated
these issues can become online.
The first decision, filed just before Thanksgiving by Judge
Ronald Whyte of the northern California federal district court,
probably had the most far-reaching implications for the future
of electronic communications. Judge Whyte held that Internet
service providers, those important gateways to the information
superhighway, cannot be held liable for copyright infringement
when they have no knowledge of the content of their users'
messages. "Where a BBS operator cannot reasonably verify a
claim of infringement, either because of a possible fair use
defense, the lack of copyrighted notices on the copies, or the
copyright holder's failure to provide the necessary
documentation to show that there is a likely infringement, the
operator's lack of knowledge will be found reasonable and there
will be no liability for contributory infringement for allowing
the continued distribution of the works on its system."
This is important, because system providers are similar to the
telephone company when it comes to electronic communications--
they provide the conduit. If they can be held liable for the content of
messages, they are more likely to monitor those messages and censor any
that contain anything that might get them in trouble. Just as we don't
want Ma Bell censoring our voice communications, we should be very troubled
by any copyright law interpretation that would assign liability to those who
provide Internet service.
The second and third decisions were filed last week by Judge
Leonie M. Brinkema of the federal district court for northern
Virginia. In those cases, Judge Brinkema admonished the Church
of Scientology for using lawsuits to silence its online
critics. In dismissing the Washington Post and two of its
reporters from the suit and holding the Church of Scientology
responsible for the Post's attorneys' fees, Judge Brinkema
found, "Although the RTC brought the complaint under
traditional secular concepts of copyright and trade secret law,
it has become clear that a much broader motivation
prevailed--the stifling of criticism and dissent of the
religious practices of Scientology and the destruction of its
opponents." The judge called this motivation "reprehensible."
While the results of these preliminary decisions are
encouraging, they are but small battles in a war that is being
waged not only in our courtrooms but in Congress and state
legislatures, as well. And the war is hardly over. From the
unconstitutional "online decency" legislation included in the
telecommunications reform bill to the FBI's digital telephony
wiretapping law, censoring the Internet seems to be the battle cry of
the uninformed.
But there are serious ramifications to barreling ahead without
fully considering the First Amendment--ramifications that will
be with us for a long time to come. As we chip away at our own
free speech rights, we diminish ourselves. The most
frightening aspect is that these decisions regarding provider
liability and protection of the free speech rights of those who
dare to disagree are being made before most of us realize that
these precedents are being codified into law.
These early battles are important, and the online world
breathed a collective sigh of relief over Judge Whyte's and
Judge Brinkema's decisions. But there are more battles to be
fought before we know that the First Amendment will make the
transition to online communications.
Shari Steele,
Staff Counsel
The Electronic Frontier Foundation
1550 Bryant St., Suite 725
San Francisco CA 94103 USA
+1 415 436 9333 (voice)
+1 415 436 9993 (fax)
Internet: ask@eff.org
For the text of these court decisions and other related documents,
see the relevant section of the Internet World Wide Web site of
the Electronic Frontier Foundation at:
http://www.eff.org/pub/Censorship/Scientology_cases/
The Electronic Frontier Foundation is a nonprofit public-interest civil
liberties organization devoted to protecting privacy and free speech, and
promoting responsibility, online.
[The text of the rather different version that was published offline is
available at:
http://www.eff.org/pub/Alerts/ssteele_eff_nyt_120995_cos.article
on our WWW site.]
------------------------------
Subject: Upcoming events
------------------------
This schedule lists events that are directly EFF-related. A much more
detailed calendar of events likely to be of interest to our members and
supporters is maintained at:
ftp: ftp.eff.org, /pub/EFF/calendar.eff
gopher: gopher.eff.org, 1/EFF, calendar.eff
http://www.eff.org/pub/EFF/calendar.eff
Jan. 17-
18 * Innovation Now; Oregon Convention Center, Portland Oregon.
Sponsored by American Electronics Association's Oregon Council,
et al. Speakers include EFF chair of the board Esther Dyson.
URL: http://www.innovationnow.org/
------------------------------
Subject: Quote of the Day
-------------------------
"It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling
into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from
falling into error."
- Robert H. Jackson (1892-1954), U.S. Judge
Find yourself wondering if your privacy and freedom of speech are safe
when bills to censor the Internet are swimming about in a sea of of
surveillance legislation and anti-terrorism hysteria? Worried that in
the rush to make us secure from ourselves that our government
representatives may deprive us of our essential civil liberties?
Concerned that legislative efforts nominally to "protect children" will
actually censor all communications down to only content suitable for
the playground? Alarmed by commercial and religious organizations abusing
intellectual property law to stifle satire, dissent and criticism?
Join EFF!
Even if you don't live in the U.S., the anti-Internet hysteria will soon
be visiting a legislative body near you. If it hasn't already.
------------------------------
Subject: What YOU Can Do
------------------------
* The Communications Decency Act & Other Censorship Legislation
The Communications Decency Act and similar legislation pose serious
threats to freedom of expression online, and to the livelihoods of system
operators. The legislation also undermines several crucial privacy
protections.
Business/industry persons concerned should alert their corporate govt.
affairs office and/or legal counsel. Everyone should write to their own
Representatives and Senators, and especially the conference committee
members, asking them to oppose Internet censorship legislation, and
write to the conference committee members to support the reasonable
approaches of Leahy, Klink, Cox and Wyden, and to oppose the
unconstitutional proposals of Exon, Gorton and others. Urge them to
ensure that system operators and others are not held liable for crimes they
did not commit, that the FCC is barred from regulating the Internet, and
that *if* your Congressperson is hell-bent on passing some restriction,
any restriction, on the Net, that he or she vote to pass only a
"harmful to minors" or "obscenity" statute that is clear and constitutional,
and condemn any unconstitutional national "indecency" standard.
You may also wish to tell such legislators that if they vote for any
Internet censorship leglslation, you'll vote against them in the next
election. See the first three articles in this newsletter for more detailed
info.
For more information on what you can do to help stop this and other
dangerous legislation, see:
ftp.eff.org, /pub/Alerts/
gopher.eff.org, 1/Alerts
http://www.eff.org/pub/Alerts/
If you do not have full internet access, send your request
for information to ask@eff.org.
* Digital Telephony/Comms. Assistance to Law Enforcement Act
The FBI is now seeking both funding for the DT/CALEA wiretapping provisions,
and preparing to require that staggering numbers of citizens be
simultaneously wiretappable.
To oppose the funding, write to your own Senators and Representatives
urging them to vote against any appropriations for wiretapping.
To oppose the FBI's wiretapping capacity demands, see the FBI Federal
Register notice at the end of the second article in this newsletter, which
contains instructions on how to submit formal comments on the ludicrous
and dangerous proposal.
* Anti-Terrorism Bills
Numerous bills threatening your privacy and free speech have been introduced
this year. None of them are close to passage at this very moment, but
this status may change. Urge your Congresspersons to oppose these
unconstitutional and Big-Brotherish bills.
* The Anti-Electronic Racketeering Act
This bill is unlikely to pass in any form, being very poorly drafted, and
without much support. However, the CDA is just as bad and passed with
flying colors [the jolly roger?] in the Senate. It's better to be safe
than sorry. If you have a few moments to spare, writing to, faxing, or
calling your Congresspersons to urge opposition to this bill is a good
idea. If you only have time to do limited activism, please concentrate
on the Internet censorship legislation instead. That legislation is far more
imminent that the AERA.
* Medical Privacy legislation
Several bills relating to medical privacy issues are floating in Congress
right now. Urge your legislators to support only proposals that *truly*
enhance the medical privacy of citizens.
More information on this legislation will be available at
http://www.eff.org/pub/Privacy/Medical/ soon. Bug mech@eff.org to make
it appear there faster. :)
* Find Out Who Your Congresspersons Are
Writing letters to, faxing, and phoning your representatives in Congress
is one very important strategy of activism, and an essential way of
making sure YOUR voice is heard on vital issues.
EFF has lists of the Senate and House with contact information, as well
as lists of Congressional committees. (A House list is included in this
issue of EFFector). These lists are available at:
ftp.eff.org, /pub/Activism/Congress_cmtes/
gopher.eff.org, 1/EFF/Issues/Activism/Congress_cmtes
http://www.eff.org/pub/Activism/Congress_cmtes/
The full Senate and House lists are senate.list and hr.list, respectively.
Those not in the U.S. should seek out similar information about their
own legislative bodies. EFF will be happy to archive any such
information provided.
If you are having difficulty determining who your Representatives are,
try contacting your local League of Women Voters, who maintain a great
deal of legislative information, or consult the free ZIPPER service
that matches Zip Codes to Congressional districts with about 85%
accuracy at:
http://www.stardot.com/~lukeseem/zip.html
* Join EFF!
You *know* privacy, freedom of speech and ability to make your voice heard
in government are important. You have probably participated in our online
campaigns and forums. Have you become a member of EFF yet? The best way to
protect your online rights is to be fully informed and to make your
opinions heard. EFF members are informed and are making a difference. Join
EFF today!
For EFF membership info, send queries to membership@eff.org, or send any
message to info@eff.org for basic EFF info, and a membership form.
------------------------------
Administrivia
=============
EFFector Online is published by:
The Electronic Frontier Foundation
1550 Bryant St., Suite 725
San Francisco CA 94103 USA
+1 415 436 9333 (voice)
+1 415 436 9993 (fax)
Membership & donations: membership@eff.org
Legal services: ssteele@eff.org
General EFF, legal, policy or online resources queries: ask@eff.org
Editor:
Stanton McCandlish, Online Services Mgr./Activist/Archivist (mech@eff.org)
This newsletter is printed on 100% recycled electrons.
Reproduction of this publication in electronic media is encouraged. Signed
articles do not necessarily represent the views of EFF. To reproduce
signed articles individually, please contact the authors for their express
permission. Press releases and EFF announcements may be reproduced individ-
ually at will.
To subscribe to EFFector via email, send message body of "subscribe
effector-online" (without the "quotes") to listserv@eff.org, which will add
you to a subscription list for EFFector.
Back issues are available at:
ftp.eff.org, /pub/EFF/Newsletters/EFFector/
gopher.eff.org, 1/EFF/Newsletters/EFFector
http://www.eff.org/pub/EFF/Newsletters/EFFector/
To get the latest issue, send any message to effector-reflector@eff.org (or
er@eff.org), and it will be mailed to you automagically. You can also get
the file "current" from the EFFector directory at the above sites at any
time for a copy of the current issue. HTML editions available at:
http://www.eff.org/pub/EFF/Newsletters/EFFector/HTML/
at EFFweb. HTML editions of the current issue sometimes take a day or
longer to prepare after issue of the ASCII text version.
------------------------------
End of EFFector Online v08 #20 Digest
*************************************
$$
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:40:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A Simple Query
Schuchat,
there have been a few performances, on the west coast usa, as far as i know.
The L-poets robinson, benson, harryman, watten, perelman are recorded on
tape at the poetry center at SF state. Laura Moriaty knows how to process
your order. You might also contact brad westbrook at the UC san dieglo
archive for new poetry. he may have a tape as well. List discussed this a
while back if you want to peruse the EPC archives.
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:51:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Diane Marie Ward <dward@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: our daily bread/th
Comments: To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
In-Reply-To: <199512090344.WAA10528@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>
On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Robert Drake wrote:
> >has anybody read Julia Vinograd? is it true that, whoever whe is, she's
> >written *39* books of poetry?
>
> the latest i have ov hers describers her as "a berkley street poet"
> and credits her with 28 books... but that was way back in '89...
>
> lbd
>
Vinograd's is prolific. I have a semi recent list of her works hiding
somewhere in my desk - If you like, I'll backchannel.
Anyone on the list at all familiar with Sekou Sundiata's work? He was
featured on the PBS Bill Moyer's Language of Life series but I can't seem
to find anything published by him.
thanks,
Diane Ward
University of Buffalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:20:30 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zukovsky's 24
In-Reply-To: <199512100659.BAA29020@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
yes, it has been performed -- don't have all details at my fingertips,
but if you look back through the archive of this list you'll find several
posts earlier this year recounting the S.F. Bay area performance --
Remind posters (or postits) also that, despite his resistance to
readings, Zukofsky may be heard on a tape cassete in the treaury of
American Jewish poets (not exact title) series, also mentioned in earlier
posts --
Iqnuiry -- Ed Roberson is supposed to have a book from Iowa now -- has
anybody actually seen this book? haven't spotted it in California, nor
have I seen an Iowa ad for it --
"Inquiry" an "Iqnuiry" is a place where Iq droppings are retrieved for
use as fertilizer.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:34:34 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Roberson
Al,
_Voices Cast Out to Talk Us In_ by Ed Roberson is indeed out from U. Iowa.
$10.95 pb. & recommended. Got a review copy back in the summer & didn't
review it so I'll say here that this is a formally smart & well-built perhaps
Olsonian lyric collection. It makes you read it out loud. Hope you get to
hear it.
Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:10:28 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: our daily bread/th
sekou sundiata teaches, i think, at ccny or nyu. he's got some stuff in
Aloud: Voices from the NuYorican Poets' Cafe, ed. Algarin and Holman.--md
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:12:32 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kenneth Sherwood <V001PXFU@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: EPCLive
Comments: cc: core-l <core-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu>
I hope you'll all check out EPCLive monday night at 6:30pm EST
for an online fest with Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris on
their new _Poems for the Millennium: The University of California
Book of Modern and Postmodern Poetry_
Information on connecting (and the Introduction and Table of Contents)
is available at http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/epclive
ks
____________________________________________________________________________
Kenneth Sherwood | Dept English
v001pxfu@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | 618 Clemens Hall
sherwood@acsu.buffalo.edu | SUNY @ Buffalo
|_______Buffalo, NY 14214___________
RIF/T mail: e-poetry@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Electronic Poetry Center (Web address): http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
_____________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:10:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: hearsay
Chris,
Could we have those trees cleared out of the way?
And the houses, volcanoes, empires? The natural
panorama is false, the shadows it casts are so many
useless platitudes. Everything is suspect. Even
clouds of the same sky are the same. Close the door
is voluntary death. There is one color, not any.
Prove to me now that you have finally undermined
your heroes. In fits of distractions the walls cover
themselves with portraits. Types are not men. Admit
that your studies are over. Limit yourself to your
memoirs. Identity is only natural. Now become
the person in your life. Start writing autobiography.
*******
Ever since this "Mode Z" came out via Barrett Watten, i've identified
strongly with the imperatives of this pome, and clearly it's one of the best
pomes ever written. i've taken it to heart, too, viz a process of formal
transference. E.G., when I first read this, I abandoned my heroes and fell
in love with Barrett Watten's superman good looks. indeed, i've written
autobiography in attempts to find my self, i've finally come to believe that
identity is only natural, and, in this pome's world, as in my own, everything
happens as if by marketing. I.E., no one puts portraits on the walls, they
just get there. hello!!! Is mr wall there? no. Is mrs wall there? no.
Is any wall there? no. Then watten blazes is holding up your house?
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:35:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Sun & Moon Press % <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: University at Buffalo
Subject: MLA Party
Poetics List Subscribers are invited
to Sun & Moon Press' MLA party on
Wednesday, December 27, 1995
from 6pm through the evening &
into the night at the Hyatt Regency
Chicago in the suite of Sun & Moon's
publisher, Douglas Messerli.
Visit Sun & Moon Press at Consortium's
booth at the book exhibition.
******
Douglas Messerli and Charles Bernstein
will be reading on Friday, Dec. 29 at 6pm
at Site Cafe/Bookstore of the Museum of
Contemporary Arts 237 East Ontario, near
the convention hotels.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:37:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: ULMER SPRING <ulmer@COOPER.EDU>
Subject: Re: hearsay
and the more identity one finds the harder it is to find it
-spring
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:54:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: hearsay
well, bill, where I grew up and/or out in upper cesspool, pa. there
were many vicious dogs 9some named death and some named desire) who
bade me play with bullies a game called "run away and hide" because
I KNEW about the BOMB really young, man, and from thence embarked
on such songs of insolance the dogs prick up their ears at my
arrival while merer mortals--including myself--are, as john lennon
said, thick and ordinary. then i made a lightning trip to vienna.
yours in fingers, chris
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:22:59 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "H. T. KIRBY-SMITH" <KIRBYS@FAGAN.UNCG.EDU>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Subject: If you don't like Seamus Heaney
Something called SNAKESKIN announces that in its February edition
there will be something called "Why We Don't Like Seamus Heaney."
To judge from the poems published in the first SNAKESIN, the reasons
given for not liking Seamus Heaney are probably going to be exactly
the opposite of reasons that might be given here.
Irish Nobel prize winners don't get off easy. Yvor Winters used to
tell his classes in a menacingly even tone of voice, "Now when I say
that Yeats is a third-rate poet, you shouldn't get angry. It's just a
fact." But Ferlinghetti seems to have liked Yeats, to judge from
what he says about him in some early poems. Maybe you have to have
dug potatoes to like Heaney. Whereas to like Yeats you have to have
believed in fairies at some point.
The Website for SNAKESKIN is http://www.nildram.co.uk/~simmers
Tom Kirby-Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:37:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Scroggins <scroggin@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zukovsky's 24
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951210121349.1357A-100000@athens>
Aldon et cie:
Bob Perleman played piano on a bay area performance; he knows more about
it; there's also a tape of a canadian performance floating around.
Yes, the Robertson's out--at least they have it at Chapter's in DC (get
on the stick, Rod!).
Mark Scroggins
On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, Aldon L. Nielsen wrote:
> yes, it has been performed -- don't have all details at my fingertips,
> but if you look back through the archive of this list you'll find several
> posts earlier this year recounting the S.F. Bay area performance --
>
> Remind posters (or postits) also that, despite his resistance to
> readings, Zukofsky may be heard on a tape cassete in the treaury of
> American Jewish poets (not exact title) series, also mentioned in earlier
> posts --
> Iqnuiry -- Ed Roberson is supposed to have a book from Iowa now -- has
> anybody actually seen this book? haven't spotted it in California, nor
> have I seen an Iowa ad for it --
>
> "Inquiry" an "Iqnuiry" is a place where Iq droppings are retrieved for
> use as fertilizer.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:10:17 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zukovsky's 24
Mark Scroggins---Are you referring to a new book by LISA ROBERTSON
when you say the New Robertson's out? Hopefully not Pat?
(though sometimes Lisa R. does have a PAT tone).
Anyway, let me know. I like to keep up with her work. Thanks, chris s.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:20:08 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zukovsky's 24
roberson's book is indeed available, published many weeks ago in fact, and
is as important as anything we've had in recent memory. the title is _voices
cast out to talk us in_, and perhaps the best, or quickest, thing at this
point is to go directly to iowa's "customer service" and circumvent the
bookstores and the wait that would entail. the isbn is 0-87745-510-4. there's
no price on my copy; i don't know why iowa's keeping that a secret.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:24:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: anachronism
Well, maybe I shouldn't bring this up (but the list HAS been quiet lately)
Afterall, I feel quite TOPHEAVY when it comes to argumentative tonality
lately. But it's like a bug I have to work out before I can appreciate
,say, the latest ANTENYM I got---For instance, I feel about 180 degrees
from the kind of space Mary Carol Randall's poem "absence" evokes there--
I DON'T CARE HOW BITTER THE GRAPEFRUIT IS, I WANT IT.....
Anyway, I finally read that controversy-starting Mark Wallace Poetics
Brief piece. Thanks Jeff for sending. Thanks Mark for mentioning my name
(etc.) But I do have a question for you Mark (are you there?), or for
anyone else who might agree with the assertion Mark makes.
At one point, you call certain poets (all circa our age) "anachronistic".
On level, it doesn't matter WHICH poets you are calling so.
In fact, Mark I dub YOU anachronistic!
Haven't you heard, the word "anachronistic" went out with Jameson...
Who's to say
What's of today
But those with sway?
And what is sway
If it doesn't say
What's of today?
Just curious. Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:02:39 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Curt Anderson <cander@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: If you don't like Seamus Heaney
At 11:22 AM 12/11/95 EST, H. T. KIRBY-SMITH wrote:
>>Irish Nobel prize winners don't get off easy. Yvor Winters used to
>tell his classes in a menacingly even tone of voice, "Now when I say
>that Yeats is a third-rate poet, you shouldn't get angry. It's just a
>fact." But Ferlinghetti seems to have liked Yeats, to judge from
>what he says about him in some early poems. Maybe you have to have
>dug potatoes to like Heaney. Whereas to like Yeats you have to have
>believed in fairies at some point.
>
Say, what you got against fairies? I would have to argue that Winters and
Ferlinghetti are easily dispatched as third rate poets, whereas Yeats,
especially the later poetry, ranks as some of the best poetry in the
language. Don't know about Heaney, other than info from my sister, who had
him at Berkeley, and reports that he spoke passionately about taking
pleasure in the aroma of his own flatulence.
Curt Anderson
Cander@mtn.org
P.O. Box 1840
St. Paul, MN 55101
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 19:14:37 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ray Davis <raydavis@BEST.COM>
Subject: Re: Shandy & Diderot
Chris, the self-protecting plagiarism I referred to was Gascoigne's second
edition. The first "adventures of Master F.J." was fake biography (or, more
accurately, fake biographical annotations a la _Pale Fire_), and it was on
the scandalous side: the poet-hero was a sleaze, and the object of his
hypocritical lyrics the bored and not particularly literate wife of the
poet's generous host. Because, I presume, of that scandal, when Gascoigne
next published the story-with-poems, it was absurdly claimed to be a
translation of an Italian story, although the Italianized names disappear
after the first page.
I agree that one of the wonderful things about the book is Gascoigne's
dismissal of the idea of "lyric outpouring": poems serve a social purpose
via their very denial of ulterior motives. Which is not to say that
Gascoigne's poetry doesn't express passion, but to say that passions serve
social purposes as well.
Ray
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:14:58 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Followup on Nigeria
In-Reply-To: <v02130500acf231131789@[204.156.134.79]> from "Ray Davis" at Dec
11, 95 07:14:37 pm
This from IFEX, via PEN, of some interest as followup on the NIgerian
hangings:
NIGERIA: INTERNATIONAL MEDIA FAULTED FOR APATHY TO REPRESSION
The international media should have done more to publicize the
unfair detention and trial of Nigerian writer Ken Saro-Wiwa and
the other eight Ogoni activists who were executed last month,
said journalists at a Freedom Forum discussion on 20 November.
The discussion, which took place in Arlington, Virginia, United
States, was entitled "Nigeria After Ken Saro-Wiwa: Media Under
Siege". Participants were asked, "Could the international media
have done anything differently, anything better that might have
prevented these executions from taking place?" Josh Arinze of
"Tell" magazine in Lagos, Nigeria answered, "With the present
bunch that is ruling Nigeria, it is really very hard to hope that
diplomacy can do much.... The international media could have done
more. There was a remarkable outcry and very high publicity after
the executions. It would have been much better if it had been
before the executions.... Ken was arrested in May 1994."
Kenneth Best, a Liberian editor teaching at American University
in Washington, said, "I definitely believe we could have hollered
a bit more in the media, especially the media that matters, the
Western media.... [This] reflects one of the problems that I have
been dealing with since I came to the country about a year and a
half ago -- the absence of serious coverage in the American media
of Africa." Peter Fabricus, the Washington correspondent for
Independent Newspapers of South Africa agreed, saying, "[T]he
media does not cover Africa enough, but it is not going to
change. The fact is the media has to be led by the market, and
the market does not show that much interest.... The only time you
are going to get a media interest in Africa is when Africans
themselves begin to take responsibility for their problems, which
I think is what [South African President Nelson] Mandela is
doing."
Phil Robbins of the U.S. military magazine "Stars and Stripes"
said, "I think the situation is a demonstration of the limits of
journalism and what we can expect of journalism. I think
everybody believes that democracy can't function without a free
press, but it doesn't apply to dictatorships and authoritarian
situations.... International coverage... is not going to save the
world from the... Sani Abachas of the world.... Diplomacy is the
only thing [that can help]... and obviously the more we can
expose things, the better chance diplomacy has to work." Paul
Glickman of National Public Radio (NPR) said, "We don't have
anyone based in Nigeria. It seems not to be a place where the
Western press bases its reporters because it is so difficult to
work there." Glickman said some NPR reporters had applied for
journalist visas for Nigeria, "but we are not exactly holding our
breath." He said NPR had been covering Saro-Wiwa since before his
arrest.
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poems are sketches for existence."
Dept. of English | --Paul Celan
SUNY Albany |
Albany NY 12222 | "Revisionist plots
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | are everywhere and our pronouns haven't yet
email: | drawn up plans for the first coup."
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu| --J.H. Prynne
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:54:32 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zukovsky's 24
>perhaps the best, or quickest, thing at this
>point is to go directly to iowa's "customer service" and circumvent the
>bookstores and the wait that would entail.
&& as had been mentioned here recently, another best thing to
do would be to order thru yr local independant bookstore, helping
to keep such in business. as often as not faster than direct
ordering; also lets local bookbuyers know that there _is_ a
market for poetry...
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:41:42 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Passion and the social
FYI
"A Mr. John Keats, a young man who had left a decent calling for the
melancholy trade of Cockney-poetry, has lately died of a consumption,
after having written two or three little books of verses, much
neglected by the public . . . he wrote _indecently_, probably in the
indulgence of his social propensities."
--Blackwood's Magazine, 1821
That last line, "the idulgence of his social propensities" has to be a
classical critical line. What's the current equivalent?
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:37:23 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Scroggins <scroggin@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Zukovsky's 24
In-Reply-To: <01HYOOQGL6Z68Y53HP@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Chris S.--
nope, unfortunately (fortunately?) I was replying to Aldon's query re the
new Ed Roberson--slip o' the digit. Will you be my copyeditor? (just
typed coyeditor--mebbe that one was freudian...)
Mark S
On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Chris Stroffolino wrote:
> Mark Scroggins---Are you referring to a new book by LISA ROBERTSON
> when you say the New Robertson's out? Hopefully not Pat?
> (though sometimes Lisa R. does have a PAT tone).
> Anyway, let me know. I like to keep up with her work. Thanks, chris s.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:50:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Larry Price <Lppl@AOL.COM>
Subject: Anachronism
Chris:
I'd like to offer a reading of "anachronism." Actually, my take would be that
the ANACHRONE is about as likely as the ANAMORPH (not at all). But I take my
clue by returning to the morph, margin/center. Although I'll avoid the hedge
implicit in the term "problematic," the fact is that in 9 out of 10 times the
term "center" is used, it probably doesn't exist. However, this only means
that the "margin" "center" differentially signifies must have a far more
complex relation to group formation than a simple geometric model would
allow. And it's that fact of the possibility of brownian motion in there that
I think needs to be addressed, as well as the converse aggregate narratives
(only one among them being that of the center) that work as the ideological.
In fact with regard to time (baldly) or history (pathetically) there seems
every bit as much tendency to "vibrate." However, there is also another
morph, one which places language (in any generation) explicitly within the
problem. That is, I've thought a great deal about Ed Foster's introduction of
Whitman into the discussion of, amongst so much else, parts and wholes, as he
wrote, "discrete letters." It occurs that the issue revolves around the
diacritical character of the medium. That and the fact that in the body (or
at least in the experience of it) there is a zone (or at least the illusion
of one) that does NOT experience the problem of open/closed form, a zone for
which experience is analogical. Although the base activity may be digital
(this is, of course, borne out by cases of neural dysfunction: those whose
neural bridges cannot be closed (one form of schizophrenia) vs. those whose
neural bridges cannot be opened (causing severe depression)), the curious
twist comes because of the rheostat phenomenon in most of the experiences in
the total sensorium; that is, Emotion A is not premeasured in its track from
1 to 10, but seems to traverse a continuum.It may be the simple complication
by other emotions, thoughts, sheer digs from the body/far-flung reaches of
the sensorium. Who knows? That fact is that it has implications concerning
language, which, of course, is diacritical throughout. I'll set aside the
opposition speech/language and say the divide seems to come between the
diacritical system of language and the bodily generation and/or experience of
and/or within that diacritical system. The collision between (or chafing
within) the digital necessity of a system and the body's analogical (fact of
or) yearning for integration within itself and/or other. Which is how I then
read Ed's use of Whitman vis-a-vis phonemics and syntax. However, I would
resist the equivalence Ed asserts between Stein and Whitman. Stein, it seems
to me, pursued something of the opposite, something like the "truth of
language," leading eventually, I think, to Creeley's (approximately) "I
follow the words."
In any case, my point is that those two terms help to establish the perpetual
sense of displacement (chronic OR morphic) that any writer "experiences."
Larry Price
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:00:27 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marisa Januzzi <Marisa.Januzzi@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Vinograd.....
In-Reply-To: <199512091405.GAA14016@ix11.ix.netcom.com>
Thanks all-- will search and post if I find anything like symphonies in
Vinograd (how do I get started on these weird searches? months ago it was
Gaspara Stampa)
see (some of) you in Chicago wearing the damn nametags! --Marisa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 02:57:35 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Iowa's secret
Ed Foster notes: there's
>no price on my copy; i don't know why iowa's keeping that a secret.
>
So that Iowa can change the price as market conditions warrant so long
as the book is in print. (The first printing of Tjanting was $6.00 and
the second $10.00--you can tell which you have by looking at the price
on the rear cover.) Frankly, it's silly to put a price on a book cover.
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:02:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Iowa's secret
>Ed Foster notes: there's
>>no price on my copy; i don't know why iowa's keeping that a secret.
>>
>So that Iowa can change the price as market conditions warrant so long
>as the book is in print. (The first printing of Tjanting was $6.00 and
>the second $10.00--you can tell which you have by looking at the price
>on the rear cover.) Frankly, it's silly to put a price on a book cover.
>
>Ron
It may be silly, but stores strongtly prefer it.
Dick "Am I So Correct?" HIggins
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:48:56 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Iowa's secret
>Ed Foster notes: there's
>>no price on my copy; i don't know why iowa's keeping that a secret.
>>
>So that Iowa can change the price as market conditions warrant so long
>as the book is in print. (The first printing of Tjanting was $6.00 and
>the second $10.00--you can tell which you have by looking at the price
>on the rear cover.) Frankly, it's silly to put a price on a book cover.
>
>Ron
Ron, I haven't wondered about that. And would you say that goes for bar
codes, too, which encode the price? And does that mean you feel there is
really very little reason to try and get our books into stores which demand
such things? I'd love to hear you talk about this a little more, as I think
it's an important discussion -- the desire to market/distribute books and do
it well, without automatically assuming that the "norms" and "demands" of
the mass marketplace really suit small press books and their dissemination
at all.
charles
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:50:24 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: oops
In my last message, relating to putting the price on books, I meant to say
"I have wondered about that," rather than "I haven't wondered about that."
Sorry for the denial there.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:04:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anachronism
Dear Larry--Well, you certainly bring the discussion to another PLANE
but I still think that others out there still think there ARE ANACHROMES
and there are still what Riding once called "CONTEMPORARIES AND SNOBS"
"out there" (and "in here"---insofar as a Freudian Drive is a Greek GOD)
and hopefully that issue will be raised or taken up too..
but, what is BROWNIAN MOTION---It's one of those terms I always hear...
I'd like to think it's named after JAMES "Santa's got a brand new bag...."
....though poetry atrophies when it gets too far from MUZAK.....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:06:42 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Larry Price <Lppl@AOL.COM>
Subject: Astonished
Bill Luoma:
Your note to me recalled a question I had had: Didn't you recently quote
Spicer's "etonnez-moi" and attribute it to Cocteau? Is that in fact the
source? It's been a geological era or two since I've seen either of the
Cocteau Orpheus films. And it may be that I'm being oratized by Spicer, who
puts it in Diaghilev's mouth. But that is the story I remember: Diaghilev
meeting Nijinsky for the first time, saying "Astonish me." (He was of
course.) Am I wrong? Is it Cocteau? Illuminez-moi.
lp
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:06:49 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Larry Price <Lppl@AOL.COM>
Subject: Heartbeat
Chris:
Brownian motion is thinking you're quoting Breton with approval when in fact
you're quoting Goebbels (which I actually did the other day?!?!). It puts my
own particular Tobyhorse in perspective: Which is to say: Contingency may or
may not be the case, but we're forced to live as though it is. It's the
denial of that that artificially makes everything so expensive (in several
senses). No more restricted economy exists than a tight ass. As I say: it's
not so much a new or old bag as the inability to afford the bags and boxes to
want the bags and boxes with.
lp
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:48:38 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "D. LaBeau" <dlabeau@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: The Kink of Comedy
I'm teaching a "Comedy & Society" class in the 9-6, and I'm hoping to
use a lot of poetry. Any suggestions on essays or books about
comedy & poetics (or comedy & literature in general) that you find
interesting would be appreciated. Also, if you want to throw in some
poets or fictioneers who strike your funnybone, I'd like to hear that
as well. Hopefully I'll be able to get Bob Perelman to give a guest
reading/talk to the class.
Thanks,
Daniel LaBeau
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:00:48 EST
Reply-To: dgolumbia@iddis.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Golumbia <GOLUMBIA@IDDIS.IDDIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Anachronism
Chris Stroffolino wrote:
>
> ....though poetry atrophies when it gets too far from MUZAK.....
the possibilities are mind-bending, but you forgot the (R) after
MUZAK--which raises further mind-bending possibilities--is poetry(R)
a brand of something? like, what?
--
dgolumbia@iddis.com
David Golumbia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:52:18 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: ALERT - Protest Internet Censorship Bills, Tues 12/12/95
Gotta to hope that this is circulating, but having seen no sign on Poetics
have taken the e-librty to forward this post.
love and love
cris
>>>>>>>>========================================================================
>>>>>>>> CAMPAIGN TO STOP THE NET CENSORSHIP LEGISLATION IN CONGRESS
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday December 12, 1995, Join With Hundreds of Thousands
>>>>>>>> Of Your Fellow Internet Users In
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A NATIONAL INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PLEASE WIDELY REDISTRIBUTE THIS DOCUMENT WITH THIS BANNER INTACT
>>>>>>>> REDISTRIBUTE ONLY UNTIL December 20, 1995
>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>CONTENTS
>>>>>>>> Internet Day of Protest: Tuesday December 12, 1995
>>>>>>>> What You Must Do On Tuesday December 12, 1995
>>>>>>>> List of Participating Organizations
>>>>>>>> Where Can I Learn More?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST: TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Outrageous proposals to censor the Internet demand that the Internet
>>>>>>>>Community take swift and immediate action. We must stand up and let
>>>>>>>>Congress know that we will not tolerate their attempts to destroy this
>>>>>>>>medium! Please join hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens in a
>>>>>>>>National Day of Protest on Tuesday December 12, 1995.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As you know, on Wednesday December 6, 1995, the House Conference
>>>>>>>>Committee on Telecommunications Reform voted to impose far reaching and
>>>>>>>>unconstitutional "indecency" restrictions on the Internet and other
>>>>>>>>interactive media, including large commercial online services (such as
>>>>>>>>America Online, Compuserve, and Prodigy) and smaller Internet Service
>>>>>>>>Providers such as Panix, the Well, Echo, and Mindvox.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>These restrictions threaten the very existence of the Internet and
>>>>>>>>interactive media as a viable medium for free expression, education,
>>>>>>>>commerce. If enacted, the Internet as we know it will never be the
>>>>>>>>same.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Libraries will not be able to put any books online that might
>>>>>>>>offend a child somewhere. No "Catcher in the Rye" or "Ulysses" on
>>>>>>>>the net.
>>>>>>>>Internet Service Providers could face criminal penalties for allowing
>>>>>>>>children to subscribe to their Internet Services, forcing many small
>>>>>>>>companies to simply refuse to sell their services to anyone under
>>>>>>>>18. Worst
>>>>>>>>of all, everything you say and publish on the net will have to be
>>>>>>>>"dumbed
>>>>>>>>down" to that which is acceptable to a child.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As Internet users, we simply must not allow this assault against the
>>>>>>>>Internet and our most basic freedoms to go unchallenged.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Tuesday December 12, the organizations below are urging you to
>>>>>>>>join us in a NATIONAL DAY OF PROTEST. The goal is to flood key members
>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>the House and Senate with phone calls, faxes and email with the message
>>>>>>>>that the Internet community WILL NOT TOLERATE Congressional attempts to
>>>>>>>>destroy the Internet, limit our freedoms and trample on our rights.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Below are the phone, fax, and email address of several key members of
>>>>>>>>Congress on this issue and instructions on what you can do to join the
>>>>>>>>National Day of Protest to save the Net.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>WHAT YOU MUST DO ON TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>1. Throughout the day Tuesday December 12, please contact as many
>>>>>>>> members of Congress on the list below as you can. If you are only
>>>>>>>> able to make one call, contact House Speaker Newt Gingrich. Finally,
>>>>>>>> if the Senator or Representative from your state is on the list
>>>>>>>> below, be sure to contact him or her also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2. Urge each Member of Congress to "stop the madness". Tell them that
>>>>>>>> they are about to pass legislation that will destroy the Internet as
>>>>>>>> an educational and commercial medium. If you are at a loss for
>>>>>>>> words, try the following sample communique:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sample phone call:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both the House and Senate bills designed to protect children
>>>>>>>> from objectionable material on the Internet will actually
>>>>>>>> destroy the Internet as an medium for education, commerce, and
>>>>>>>> political discourse. There are other, less restrictive ways to
>>>>>>>> address this issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I urge you to oppose both measures being proposed in the
>>>>>>>> conference committee. This is an important election issue to
>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sample letter (fax or email):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Senate conferees are considering ways to protect children
>>>>>>>> from inappropriate material on the Internet. A vote for either
>>>>>>>> the House or Senate proposals will result in the destruction of
>>>>>>>> the Internet as a viable medium for free expression, education,
>>>>>>>> commerce. Libraries will not be able to put their entire book
>>>>>>>> collections online. Everyday people like me will risk massive
>>>>>>>> fines and prison sentences for public discussions someone s
>>>>>>>> somewhere might consider "indecent".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are other, less restrictive ways to protect children from
>>>>>>>> objectionable material online. This is an important election
>>>>>>>> issue to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>3. If you're in San Francisco, or near enough to get there, go to
>>>>>>>> the Rally Against Censorship from Ground Zero of the Digital
>>>>>>>>Revolution:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WHEN: Monday, December 11, 1995 12:00 - 1:00 PM
>>>>>>>> WHERE: South Park (between 2nd and 3rd, Bryant and Brannon) San
>>>>>>>>Francisco.
>>>>>>>> SPEAKERS: To be announced
>>>>>>>> BRING: Attention-grabbing posters, signs, and banners that
>>>>>>>>demonstrate
>>>>>>>> your committment to free speech and expression, and your
>>>>>>>>feelings
>>>>>>>> about Congress.
>>>>>>>> FOR UPDATED INFORMATION (including rain info):
>>>>>>>> http://www.hotwired.com/staff/digaman/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>### THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT ###
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>4. Mail a note to protest@vtw.org to let us know you did your part.
>>>>>>>> Although you will not receive a reply due to the number of
>>>>>>>> anticipated responses, we'll be counting up the number of people that
>>>>>>>> participated in the day of protest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P ST Name and Address Phone Fax
>>>>>>>> = == ======================== ============== ==============
>>>>>>>> R AK Stevens, Ted 1-202-224-3004 1-202-224-1044
>>>>>>>> R AZ McCain, John 1-202-224-2235 1-602-952-8702
>>>>>>>> senator_mccain@mccain.senate.gov
>>>>>>>> D HI Inouye, Daniel K. 1-202-224-3934 1-202-224-6747
>>>>>>>> R KS Dole, Robert 1-202-224-6521 1-202-228-1245
>>>>>>>> D KY Ford, Wendell H. 1-202-224-4343 1-202-224-0046
>>>>>>>> wendell_ford@ford.senate.gov
>>>>>>>> R MS Lott, Trent 1-202-224-6253 1-202-224-2262
>>>>>>>> R MT Burns, Conrad R. 1-202-224-2644 1-202-224-8594
>>>>>>>> conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov
>>>>>>>> D NE Exon, J. J. 1-202-224-4224 1-202-224-5213
>>>>>>>> D SC Hollings, Ernest F. 1-202-224-6121 1-202-224-4293
>>>>>>>> senator@hollings.senate.gov
>>>>>>>> R SD Pressler, Larry 1-202-224-5842 1-202-224-1259
>>>>>>>> larry_pressler@pressler.senate.gov
>>>>>>>> R WA Gorton, Slade 1-202-224-3441 1-202-224-9393
>>>>>>>> senator_gorton@gorton.senate.gov
>>>>>>>> D WV Rockefeller, John D. 1-202-224-6472 n.a.
>>>>>>>> senator@rockefeller.senate.gov
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dist ST Name, Address, and Party Phone Fax
>>>>>>>> ==== == ======================== ============== ==============
>>>>>>>> 6 GA Gingrich, Newt (R) 1-202-225-4501 1-202-225-4656
>>>>>>>> 2428 RHOB georgia6@hr.house.gov
>>>>>>>> 14 MI Conyers Jr., John (D) 1-202-225-5126 1-202-225-0072
>>>>>>>> 2426 RHOB jconyers@hr.house.gov
>>>>>>>> 1 CO Schroeder, Patricia (D) 1-202-225-4431 1-202-225-5842
>>>>>>>> 2307 RHOB
>>>>>>>> 18 TX Jackson-Lee, Sheila (D) 1-202-225-3816 1-202-225-3317
>>>>>>>> 1520 LHOB
>>>>>>>> 6 TN Gordon, Bart (D) 1-202-225-4231 1-202-225-6887
>>>>>>>> 2201 RHOB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>4. Forward this alert to all of your wired friends.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>WHERE CAN I LEARN MORE?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At this moment, there are several organizations with WWW sites that now
>>>>>>>>have, or will have, information about the net censorship legislation and
>>>>>>>>the National Day Of Protest:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>American Civil Liberties Union (ftp://ftp.aclu.org/aclu/)
>>>>>>>>Center for Democracy and Technology (http://www.cdt.org/)
>>>>>>>>Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org/)
>>>>>>>>Electronic Privacy Information Center (http://www.epic.org/)
>>>>>>>>Wired Magazine (http://www.hotwired.com/special/indecent/)
>>>>>>>>Voters Telecommunications Watch (http://www.vtw.org/)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>LIST OF PARTICIPATING ORGANIZATIONS
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In order to use the net more effectively, several organizations have
>>>>>>>>joined forces on a single Congressional net campaign to stop the
>>>>>>>>Communications Decency Act.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>American Civil Liberties Union * American Communication Association *
>>>>>>>>American Council for the Arts * Arts & Technology Society * Association
>>>>>>>>of Alternative Newsweeklies * biancaTroll productions * Boston
>>>>>>>>Coalition for Freedom of Expression * Californians Against Censorship
>>>>>>>>Together * Center For Democracy And Technology * Centre for Democratic
>>>>>>>>Communications * Center for Public Representation * Citizen's Voice -
>>>>>>>>New Zealand * Cloud 9 Internet *Computer Communicators Association *
>>>>>>>>Computel Network Services * Computer Professionals for Social
>>>>>>>>Responsibility * Cross Connection * Cyber-Rights Campaign * CyberQueer
>>>>>>>>Lounge * Dorsai Embassy * Dutch Digital Citizens' Movement * ECHO
>>>>>>>>Communications Group, Inc. * Electronic Frontier Canada * Electronic
>>>>>>>>Frontier Foundation * Electronic Frontier Foundation - Austin *
>>>>>>>>Electronic Frontiers Australia * Electronic Frontiers Houston *
>>>>>>>>Electronic Frontiers New Hampshire * Electronic Privacy Information
>>>>>>>>Center * Feminists For Free Expression * First Amendment Teach-In *
>>>>>>>>Florida Coalition Against Censorship * FranceCom, Inc. Web Advertising
>>>>>>>>Services * Friendly Anti-Censorship Taskforce for Students * Hands
>>>>>>>>Off! The Net * Inland Book Company * Inner Circle Technologies, Inc. *
>>>>>>>>Inst. for Global Communications * Internet On-Ramp, Inc. * Internet
>>>>>>>>Users Consortium * Joint Artists' and Music Promotions Political Action
>>>>>>>>Committee * The Libertarian Party * Marijuana Policy Project *
>>>>>>>>Metropolitan Data Networks Ltd. * MindVox * MN Grassroots Party *
>>>>>>>>National Bicycle Greenway * National Campaign for Freedom of Expression
>>>>>>>>* National Coalition Against Censorship * National Gay and Lesbian Task
>>>>>>>>Force * National Public Telecomputing Network * National Writers Union
>>>>>>>>* Oregon Coast RISC * Panix Public Access Internet * People for the
>>>>>>>>American Way * Republican Liberty Caucus * Rock Out Censorship *
>>>>>>>>Society for Electronic Access * The Thing International BBS Network *
>>>>>>>>The WELL * Voters Telecommunications Watch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(Note: All 'Electronic Frontier' organizations are independent entities,
>>>>>>>> not EFF chapters or divisions.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> End Alert
>>>>>>>>========================================================================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>William Jenkins E-Mail:
>>>>>>>William.Jenkins@asu.edu
>>>>>>>School of Art, Arizona State University Voice: (602)965-5667
>>>>>>>Tempe, AZ 85281-1505 Fax: (602)965-8338
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dan Collins
>>>>>>Associate Professor
>>>>>>School of Art
>>>>>>Arizona State University
>>>>>>Tempe, AZ 85287-1505
>>>>>>602.965.8311
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>xray@pacific.net.sg
>
>Ray Langenbach
>School of Arts,Nanyang Technological University
>469 Bukit Timah Road, Singapore 1025
>or
>430A Racecourse Road, Singapore 0821
>
>Voicemail:65-460-5640; Fax: 65-292-7414
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:24:29 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heartbeat
Larry--If the denial of contingency (as "the case"--as "mortal coil"
or "ideology?") is what "artificially makes everything so expensive
(in several senses)" does one of these senses include the sense in which
TV is cheaper than LSD (a line from Goddard's--or do I mean Goebbel's--
BAND OF OUTSIDERS)? For, if one person's ceiling is another one's floor,
(in a strictly figurative sense), then the "restricted economy" must
be used against itself in language and thus poetry may seem nothing but
affirmative action in its revauling of heirarchies unless one can do
away with heirarchies--and if that's an impossibility, on one level,
then we're back to the question of a PSYCHIC ECONOMY we left hanging
not too long ago. Or do you want to bag it? Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:40:21 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: printed RRR (was Iowa's secret)
>>Ed Foster notes: there's
>>>no price on my copy; i don't know why iowa's keeping that a secret.
>>>
>>So that Iowa can change the price as market conditions warrant so long
>>as the book is in print. (The first printing of Tjanting was $6.00 and
>>the second $10.00--you can tell which you have by looking at the price
>>on the rear cover.) Frankly, it's silly to put a price on a book cover.
>>
>>Ron
>
>It may be silly, but stores strongtly prefer it.
>
>Dick "Am I So Correct?" HIggins
>
>Dick Higgins
>P O Box 27
>Barrytown, NY 12507
> Tel- (914) 758-6488
> Fax- (914) 758-4416
> e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
The stores I have dealt with in Australia in setting up a small press
distributor actually prefer not to have the price on the cover . As a
distributor prices on the cover can be a major problem. A number of
publishers have set their wholesale and RRP prices based on dealing
directly with bookstores. Their margins are, of course, so small that they
can't place stock with a distributor for less than their current wholesale
price. Because they have announced their RRP on the cover there is also no
room to increase the RRP so that the distributor and the bookseller also
have a margin - as a result the publisher doesn't get their book/magazine
into a new bookshop because the bookseller isn't prepared to cover a
printed RRP with a higher price.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:50:54 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: AARON SHURIN <ashurin@SFSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astonished
In-Reply-To: <951213140628_132299562@mail06.mail.aol.com>
Diaghilev told Cocteau to "ettone-moi." Cocteau later slyly turned it
when, in his film "Orphee", he has Orpheus being told the same thing,
when Orpheus feels he's losing his critical edge.In the movie a new review
has just appeared. It's called "Nudism": blank pages.
On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Larry Price wrote:
> Bill Luoma:
>
> Your note to me recalled a question I had had: Didn't you recently quote
> Spicer's "etonnez-moi" and attribute it to Cocteau? Is that in fact the
> source? It's been a geological era or two since I've seen either of the
> Cocteau Orpheus films. And it may be that I'm being oratized by Spicer, who
> puts it in Diaghilev's mouth. But that is the story I remember: Diaghilev
> meeting Nijinsky for the first time, saying "Astonish me." (He was of
> course.) Am I wrong? Is it Cocteau? Illuminez-moi.
>
> lp
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:55:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Sheila E. Murphy" <semurphy@INDIRECT.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kink of Comedy
>I'm teaching a "Comedy & Society" class in the 9-6, and I'm hoping to
>use a lot of poetry. Any suggestions on essays or books about
>comedy & poetics (or comedy & literature in general) that you find
>interesting would be appreciated. Also, if you want to throw in some
>poets or fictioneers who strike your funnybone, I'd like to hear that
>as well. Hopefully I'll be able to get Bob Perelman to give a guest
>reading/talk to the class.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Daniel LaBeau
Daniel, there's a collection called THE MAVERICK POETS, or something close
to that. Not purely humor, but humor therein, and direct. Charles
Bernstein has done some wonderful things you're probably familiar with that
"do" comedy wonderfully. His "Emotions for Normal People" stands out in my
mind.
Sheila Murphy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:49:10 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Astonished
>Bill Luoma:
>
>Your note to me recalled a question I had had: Didn't you recently quote
>Spicer's "etonnez-moi" and attribute it to Cocteau? Is that in fact the
>source? It's been a geological era or two since I've seen either of the
>Cocteau Orpheus films. And it may be that I'm being oratized by Spicer, who
>puts it in Diaghilev's mouth. But that is the story I remember: Diaghilev
>meeting Nijinsky for the first time, saying "Astonish me." (He was of
>course.) Am I wrong? Is it Cocteau? Illuminez-moi.
>
>lp
I think Spicer was right, it was Diaghilev's charge to Cocteau when PARADE
was commissioned. There is a good account of it in Gold and Fizdale's
biography of Misia Sert, also in Steegmuller's book on Cocteau.
Dick Higgins
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:43:12 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Subtext readings Winter 96
Hi -
Here're the next three readings of the Subtext series and a couple of
readings that we're co-sponsoring:
Thursday December 14
Deanna Ferguson & Ezra Mark
Thursday January 18
Mickey O'Connor & Dan Raphael
Thursday February 15
Laynie Browne & Kathryn MacLeod
the above 3 readings at the Speakeasy Cafe, 2314 2nd Avenue, in Seattle's
Belltown district, at 7:30 pm.
The two co-sponsored readings are being presented in collaboration with The
Rendezvous Reading series, at the Empty Space Theater at Olive St & 11th
Ave on Capitol Hill:
Tuesday February 27
Rosmarie Waldrop
Tuesday March 12
Robin Blaser
Ezra Mark is curating January through April for Subtext, the following 3 or
4 months will be curated by Nico Vassilakis. If there are folks on poetics
who are interested in a reading in Seattle during this period, you can get
in touch with them through me at the address below.
Bests
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:43:26 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Joey Simas?
Robert Mittenthal asked me to see if anyone had Joey Simas' CompuServe (or
other) e-mail address.
If so, could you please send it to me or post it to the list.
Thanks.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 03:10:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wendy Battin <wjbat@CONNCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anachronism
In-Reply-To: <199512140643.BAA03623@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Chris Stroffolino wrote:
but, what is BROWNIAN MOTION---It's one of those terms I always hear...
I'd like to think it's named after JAMES "Santa's got a brand new bag...."
....though poetry atrophies when it gets too far from MUZAK.....
Chris,
Given that the literal is smarter than most of us:
Brownian motion is the frenetics heat gives to molecules. The hotter the
gas (no editorial comment intended or necessary), the faster the molecules
quiver, the faster they collide with each other, the faster they quiver
after colliding, etc. Lovelier when grasped than most discouse.
Wendy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 02:31:01 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Internet advertising
Thought that this might be of interest to folks who tend to think of
this as an alternate space. Don't see books of poetry as a category
below. Nor the EPC. Late capitalism gets later....
Ron Silliman
TITLE AT&T tops list of Internet advertisers
DOCNO INW 953450589
DATE 951211
MESSAGE THIS IS THE FULL TEXT.
CITATION The Reuter Business Report, December 8, 1995, Friday,
BC cycle
LENGTH 253 words
DATELINE NEW YORK
ABSTRACT The following is a list of the leading advertisers, ad
revenue
by publisher, and advertising categories on the Internet,
compiled
by
Webtrack, a New York-based research concern.
Advertiser.................Dollars spent/fourth qtr 95
1 AT&T.......................567,000
2 Netscape...................556,000
3 Internet Shopping Network..329,000
4 NECX Direct................322,000
5 Mastercard.................278,000
6 American Airlines..........254,000
7 Microsoft..................240,000
8 C/Net......................237,000
9 MCI........................231,000
10-SportsLine..................218,000
Publisher.................Advertising dollars received
1-Netscape...................1,766,000
2-Lycos......................1,296,000
3-InfoSeek...................1,086,000
4-Yahoo......................1,086,000
5-Pathfinder...................810,000
6-HotWired.....................720,000
7-WebCrawler...................660,000
8-ESPNET SportZone.............600,000
9-GNN..........................594,000
10-c/net........................540,000
Top 10 ad sectors....pct/total.....dollars
1-Web sites/services...37.1...4,606,000
2-Computers/equipment..19.8...2,452,000
3-Telecommunications....9.6...1,196,000
4-Financial services....6.9.....858,000
5-Autos/accessories.....5.5.....679,000
6-Travel/resort.........4.1.....505,000
7-Entertainment.........3.3.....405,000
8-Beer/wine/liquor......3.0.....364,000
9-Soft drinks...........1.2.....150,000
10-Apparel/footwear......1.2.....145,000
INDEX BC ONLINE CHART
COMPANY AT&T CORP
TICKER T (NYSE)
=======================================================================
======
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:16:48 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Publication Series announcement
re: Language aLive BOOKS
Sound & Language announce the publication of the first of a series of 5
books given over to presenting
writing for Live action
or developed through Live action
or directly related to Live action.
Language aLive presents the materials themselves, unmediated by critical
discourse or academic frameworks. Language aLive is a Primary Resource for
writing and performance. Its focus is purposefully on Language and on ways
in which inter-disciplinary artists are transforming language through their
attentions.
The first issue (88pp plus full colour wraparound cover) features:
- Fiona Templeton ('Titova Balcony Speech' & 'King Verdict')
- Forced Entertainment ('Speak Bitterness')
- Fiona Wright ('Jonah Touching Jonah' documents)
forthcoming issues (two and three will appear in February / March '96) will
include work by Brian Catling / Man Act / Caroline Bergvall / Aaron
Williamson & Tertia Longmire / Gary Stevens / Carla Harryman / Steve Benson
/ Robert Overson / Kip Fulbeck / Donna Rutherford / Eric Belgum
'Many of those being published by Language aLive clamber deliberately in
the hybrid cracks between conventional categories such as drama,
literature, music and dance.
The syntax in these books won't necessarily re-present vernacular speech,
nor conform to conventional sentence formations.These writings often have
more in common, in terms of how their language materials are processed,
with movement or sound-based compositions, with film and video editing
techniques, with technological modes of production, with interventions into
architextural space.
In each case they do not tell their whole story.'
Language aLive is an open exploration into ideas towards the construction
of 'an' anthology of primary sources that can can be used as materials for
study and as blueprints for performance exporation.
By far the best way of supporting this project is to subscribing or to
order separate issues direct.
rates are as follows:
single issues =A34.50 (uk) / =A35.50 (elsewhere)
2 issues =A38 (uk) / =A310 (elsewhere)
3 issues =A311 (uk) / =A313 (elsewhere)
4 issues =A314 (uk) / =A317 (elsewhere)
5 issues =A316 (uk) / =A318 (elsewhere)
prices include post and packing.
All cheques (bona fide international money orders) etc payable to Sound &
Language please
contact: cris cheek at Sound & Language
85 London Road South, Lowestoft
Suffolk, NR33 OAS
or e-mail (cris@slang.demon.co.uk)
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:31:03 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Chris, you anachronism you
Chris:
Now, a conscious anachronism would be an attempt to say something
about how the past relates to the present, wouldn't it?
mark wallace
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:11:03 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Perelman <perelman@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: hi/comedy/food
Hi. I've just re-signed back onto the poetics chat line & saw Daniel
Labeau's message, wrote him, & am now forwarding
> As for what to look at--not a heck of a
> lot comes to mind. There's Charles's "Optimism and Critical Excess" in *A
> Poetics*; what else? I once tried reading Bergson on comedy but couldn't
> make it very far. Baudelaire, actually, has an essay about the mechanical
> element in comedy that I think de Man discusses. I doubt you'll have seen
> what's going to the last chapter of my language writing book (out this
> spring from Princeton); (it's currently in *Raddle Moon*): a faux
> dialogue between Barthes & O'Hara in a televised afterlife. It's funny
> w/ a garnish of pathos & a generous side of big issues.
>
> Humor's very interesting. It's a terribly evanescent quality. Is *Slinger*
> still funny? (I can imagine entrenched defences: *Yes* it's *very* funny!
> but such entrenchment would be part of humor's time-problem) How much of
> Berrigan? In a poetry class the other day I found myself explaining the
> thicket of jokes in Ashbery's "Daffy Duck in Hollywood": logically,
> objectively, mentally--however you want to say it--it's very funny; but
> getting the angles opened up for general contemplation took quite awhile:
> "I scarce dare approach me mug's attenuated / reflection in yon hubcap"
> (the reference to "Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror"; the Popeye diction;
> the clash of yon/hubcap) (and the whole Bugs/Daffy cartoonist-cartoonee
> scenario).
>
> But detecting bits of humor makes almost anything better: the frozen
> solemnity of the authorized word is not an attractive quality. Is the
> dynamic always one of local context (knowingly too small, inappropriate)
> attached transgressively to the Authorized Word?? So is the datedness
> always going to be built in? But 'trangression', 'subversion' are so
> cliched these days . . .
>
> Bob Perelman
>
**
addendum to food-poem query: My "An Autobiography" (reprinted in
*American Tree*) is nothing if not 'foody' as Kerouac would say.
PPS: Poetry Archive at SF State has (I think) tapes of our *"A"*-24;
there's (I think) an audio tape of our best performance; the video'd
performance wasn't so hot: my piano playing was 'medium'; we were all as
I remember spread out on the stage & a bit nervous. The performers were
Barry Watten: Poem; Kit Robinson: Story; Lyn Hejinian: Essay; Steve
Benson/Carla Harryman: Drama
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:13:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kink of Comedy
Comments: cc: drothschild@penguin.com, 72330.3423@compuserve.com
Another new yorker is funny as well:
Tom Veitch, Death College and Other Poems
turned on to me by Don Cheney light-years ago. Which reminds me that Don has
written one of the funniest books i've ever read. It's called the qualms of
Catullus at K-mart and it's a translation of catullus' opus. Don catches
much more of the spirit of catullus than zukofsky. Some snippets follow.
Furius, who is a serious necker, is an archaic necker.
His necking doesn't climax, his necking ignites.
I am you and father and new wave. We quarrel
about dentists and the mess made by silent possums.
It is pulchritue to me who has two parents.
Varus, my cat is in love with you.
You Pig! Let's duke it out!
You little squirt! Repent! You are a pig!
A pig with an upset stomach! You're not sane!
Don't sermonize, don't quibble, just quit it!
It is magnificent, horrible, sacred and libel!
When you solicit Catullus for advice
you'll miss coninuity and die like a rat.
Saturn will turn but you will die!
If luxury and a library
are your interests I'll bite your chin.
I love your big, night eyes Calvus
but you're a pest not a poet.
I command you to be my lover,
Aurelius. You can pet and put it in
but keep your quick, animal hands off Juventius,
who is a casting expert and is intelligent.
When salt is firm and not false, Prickface dies.
For sure is the language of kings,
oh cutie-pie the language of all geniuses and Pisces.
Language doesn't complain, but Prickface is exasperated.
He concedes to sit with gods (he isn't always dumb).
The gods praise salt and dumb Prickface eggs them on.
hi five Don,
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:08:04 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <hlazer@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: Help -- George Hartley
Poetics Group:
Given the tenor & topics of discussions of the past couple of weeks,
be forewarned: this message is not for everyone. It is an appeal
for help, and it involves academia and the treatment of an academic.
It's also a fairly lengthy message, and it does involve a person's
livelihood. If you've already lost interest, delete the message
now....
George Hartley and I have been communicating over his department's
decision (October 20th - English Department - Ohio State University)
to deny him tenure. After a series of very positive yearly reviews,
George was inexplicably voted down for tenure. As many of you on
this list may already know, George is the author of _Textual Politics and
the Language Poets_ (1989, Indiana University Press - the first book of
criticism published by an academic press on Language poetry).
George's critical writing focuses on Marxist criticism. _Textual
Politics_ includes a chapter, "Jameson's Perelman: Reification and
the Material Signifier," which takes Jameson to task.
In addition to _Textual Politics_, George has published 12 articles
(2 of which have been republished by other journals), 6 book reviews,
and 2 lengthy poems, in addition to delivering 7 scholarly talks. He
has also nearly completed a second book (which he has been
researching and writing for the past four years--on theories of
language, representation, and ideology in Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche, and
Jameson).
George's external evaluators were Jerry McGann, Charles Altieri,
Charles Bernstein, Robert Wess, and Michael Sprinker. While Sprinker
offered a negative evaluation, the others were very positive.
McGann, for example, concludes that Hartley would definitely have
gotten McGann's positive vote for tenure at Virginia; Altieri calls
Hartley's book on language poetry quite simply the best critical work
done on that subject.
I know Hartley to be a dedicated teacher and a fine, passionate
thinker. I have written on _Textual Politics_ in an essay in ALH,
and Hartley's work figures in my forthcoming _Opposing Poetries_.
George has appealed the negative departmental decision to the Dean.
I am in the process of writing a letter to George's Dean. If you are
familiar with George's work and would like to help, I suggest that
you write a letter to George's Dean. Letters need to arrive by
January 3rd. Please address your letter to the Dean and send a copy
to the provost and the president and to George.
addresses:
Kermit Hall, Dean of Humanities
The Ohio State University
186 University Hall
230 N. Oval Mall
Columbus, OH 43210
Richard Sisson, Provost
The Ohio State University
203 Bricker Hall
190 N. Oval Mall
Columbus, OH 43210
E. Gordon Gee, President
The Ohio State University
205 Bricker Hall
190 N. Oval Mall
Columbus, OH 43210
George Hartley
2023 Queensbridge Drive
Columbus, OH 43235
I will be glad to provide additional information as needed
back-channel ( hlazer@as.ua.edu ) so as not to clog up other Poetic
discussions.
My apologies for this lengthy intrusion into other threads of current
discussions, but I believe that George has not been treated fairly
and that letters may help him.
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:24:44 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chris, you anachronism you
Mark---
But how do you DEFINE the PAST and the PRESENT?
Larry seemed to meant anachronism more as "out of time"
and you seemed to mean it as "dated." If so, why in your
opinion is poet X dated and poet Q not? And to what extent
is anachronism a pejorative term for you....
And to what extent is "keeping up with fashions" a pejorative
term for you? And what does "make it new" have to do with
conspicuous consumption, and "taste" (that dread bourgeois word!)--
I'm just curious about your assumptions......chris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:05:58 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Kink of Comedy
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
Daniel LaBeau: The first critical book to occur to me was Ronald Wallace's God
Be With the Clown: Humor in American Poetry. A couple of my own comic
favorites are Ed Dorn's Slinger and Ginsberg's "America" (not to mention a
whole ton of other Ginsberg stuff). To Sheila's mention of Chuck B.'s
"Emotions of Normal People" I'd add "Standing Target"; his essay "Comedy and
the Poetics of Political Form" and the end of the "Optimism and Critical
Excess" essay, both in A Poetics. And yes, Captive Audience and Virtual
Reality.
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:33:45 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
I would certainly include in any look at recent humor in poetry, works by bp
Nichol and Steve McCaffery, and if possible I'd include some of their sound
poetry and visual poetry.
Selected Organs by Nichol comes to mind right away, as does some of the work
in McCaffery & Nichol's Rational Geomancy. But there's a lot more.
Charles Alexander
Chax Press
P.O. Box 19178
Minneapolis, MN 55419-0178
612-721-6063 (phone & fax)
chax@mtn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 18:04:25 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Chris, you anachronism you
> Mark---
> But how do you DEFINE the PAST and the PRESENT?
> Larry seemed to meant anachronism more as "out of time"
> and you seemed to mean it as "dated." If so, why in your
> opinion is poet X dated and poet Q not? And to what extent
> is anachronism a pejorative term for you....
> And to what extent is "keeping up with fashions" a pejorative
> term for you? And what does "make it new" have to do with
> conspicuous consumption, and "taste" (that dread bourgeois word!)--
> I'm just curious about your assumptions......chris
In thinking about this, please to think also of Carlyle's "Past and
Present." It deals with so many of these issues, albeit so long ago.
Dick Higgins
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 18:42:47 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95121413070502@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> from "Alan Golding"
at Dec 14, 95 01:05:58 pm
Re: Humor and poetry, I think immediately of Robin Blaser's ongoing
series, "The Truth Is Laughter", which dots the Holy Forest and keeps
it all honest.
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:49:42 -0700
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From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anachro-Movement
Comments: To: Wendy Battin <wjbat@CONNCOLL.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9512140344.A23043-0100000@dsys.cc.conncoll.edu>
isn't brownian movement also believed to be somewhat inexplicable?
jeffrey timmons
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:49:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: comedy
lots of Kenneth Koch, going as far back as "Lunch" ("Let us give lunch to
the lunch!").
David Shapiro, bleak humor but humor
big wads of Charles B, as several have mentioned
Marvell, "Upon Appleton House"
almost all of Ashbery
swatches of /The Cantos/
Lewis Carroll
etc etc
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:37:46 -0800
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
You wrote:
>
>Re: Humor and poetry, I think immediately of Robin Blaser's ongoing
>series, "The Truth Is Laughter", which dots the Holy Forest and keeps
>it all honest.
>
>Mike
>mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
>
It's a shame that George Bowering is off in Italy, since he's one of
the funniest writers around.
As is David Bromige.
Surprised nobody has mentioned Jonathon Williams in this regard.
About 25 years ago, when I was having trouble getting into Coolidge's
work (specifically Ing and Space), Barrett Watten (who has an enormous
number of sly jokes in his own work) got me going by precisely noting
the humor in Clark's poetry.
Both Bernstein and Ginsberg are, I think, primarily satirists (and in
person the heritage of standup comedy is visible in their readings),
but for reasons of the history of poetry nobody seems to focus on same
in commentary on their work.
Bob Perelman likewise. Anselm Hollo. Tom Raworth. Norman Fischer. Carla
Harryman.
I'm tempted to ask the opposite question. Who today writes poems that
don't include humor?
Ron
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:23:25 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: comedy
Just arrived yesterday, _New and Selected Poems_ by Ron Padgett.
Ted Berrigan's poem "Tambourine Life" holds up pretty well as comedy, tho
it's true, Ed Dorn's _Slinger_ may not. Bill Luoma's _My Trip to New York_
is a riot of a certain kind. Steve Moran's pome "Cafeteria Worker in New
Jersey" cracks me up. There is raucous mild humor in Maureen Owen's early
work, and there's genteel rude humor in Tony Towle's early work. Edwin
Denby is very witty, and William Carlos Williams makes me laugh,
Niedecker's zany, Moore's good for a few, Robert Frost's poem "New
Hampshire" is funny. People tell me Auden is funny, and I believe them. I
always thought Coleridge's _Biographia_ was a great joke. Byron's funny
poems hold up. Juvenal's poems probably don't hold up. Propertius does
pretty well in Vincent Katz's new translation. I don't know if it's LMAO
funny but it's LOL funny for me anyway. Apollinaire and Cendrars are very
funny. "The Beggar Woman of Naples" is great hideous joke poem by Max
Jacob. But maybe it'd help to know _what_ about comedy you want to teach?
Satire? Good humor? Different tropes of closure (i.e. punchlines)?
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:33:49 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Willa Jarnagin <jarnagin@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
In-Reply-To: <199512150749.AAA02008@web.azstarnet.com>
Alice Notley has written some hilarious poems.
--Willa
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:55:41 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:33:49 -0500 from
<jarnagin@HULAW1.HARVARD.EDU>
The Autobiography of Rose (Gertrude Stein) is among the most pleasantly
humorous works (is it a poem or not doesn't really concern me, but may
your students...) I can think of.
Kevin Davies' work suggests a certain level of laughing is appopriate.
Marjorie Milligan (look at Lish's Quarterly to find her work) is great fun.
She's soneone who is overdue in the "first book forthcoming" sector...
I giggled a great deal during Jean Fremon's reading this past October (the
translator is Cole Swensen) when he read from his latest novel -- again,
the question of genre seems to blur here.
Lisa Jarnot earns more than the occasional tee-hee, and her first book is
due from the Burning Deck this spring.
I'm hard pressed to stop from laughing when reading the Trial Impressions of
Harry Mathews...
Tom Ryan leaps to mind for delightful word play -- though nothing new in the
last many years...
Michael Gizzi's Continental Harmony has some very sad laughs -- Cranston,
France certainly 'mong 'em.
Can we count the very short works of Lydia Davis? I would hope so, as they
seem to blur the odd line between prose poetry and short-short fiction.
And she stuns me with her fantastic pieces.
And once I mention Davis, I'm reminded of her suggesting the importance of
Russell Edson to her development... I have a hard time stopping myself from
laughing when turning his pages.
I haven't read the books by noted writers James Stewart, John Paul II,
and Suzanne Sommers, but I've been told there's some interesting turns
in them for the funny bone.
Cheers, Gale Nelson
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:18:08 -0800
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From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: comedy
I forgot who started this thread but it was someone who was teaching a
course on comedy and poetry I think?
If Donald Allen's book "The New American Poetry" is still in print, order
that for your class. I always love the big vatic oracular pieces he prints
there like "The Kingfishers" of Olson or the Robert Duncan poems like
"Often I am Permitted to Return to a Meadow." There is after all a huge
*camp* value in their pronouncements. They are so full of themselves-Allen
wisely lets them speak on and on, creating a whole Dickens world of
pomposity and cant in one volume. He is a great editor and the book is
filled with fun from beginning to end. Of course this is a Kristevan kind
of comedy not far removed from revulsion like her famous trope of the skim
on top of her cocoa.
-Kevin Killian
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:14:09 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
In-Reply-To: <v01520d01aa4c03f2d37d@[166.84.199.56]>
Probably the funniest section of a longpoem for me is somewhere in the
middle of Thomas McGrath's *Letter to an Imaginary Friend*, where he
writes about life "with the family Peets".
*I laughed, I cried . . .*
But *Letter* can only be considered a comedy in a very broad definition of
the form.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg Duke University
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program
(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708
FAX (919) 684-6277
There is some excitement in one corner,
but most of the ghosts are merely shaking their heads.
-- Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:04:35 -0600
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
Who-l
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving
hysterical naked,
dragging
angelheaded
who who who who who who who
with
incomparable
Peyote
who who who
a
yacketayakking
whole
who
suffering
who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who
who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who who
who who who who who who who and
who
returning
Pilgrim
with
ah
and
who
to
the
and
with.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:10:00 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Don Cheney <Don_Cheney@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Kink of Comedy
Thanks for the kind words, Bill, and that reminds ME to tell THE LIST that THE
QUALMS OF CATULLUS & K-MART is on the web at:
http://fuji.ucsd.edu/alfredo/catmain.html
it is currently under construction as I add a number of drawings that Rose Anne
Raphael did for the book--several of her drawings are up already. The text is
all there, however.
other pieces I've written are available on the web at:
http://fuji.ucsd.edu/alfredo/writing.html
with such crowd favorites as: Algae Is Empire Over The World Of Used Book Stores
me and said
Lick My Skull Dry
The Profanity of the Lambs
and
With Art Comes The Things I Meant To
i'm currently html-coding my novel, NO ONE A-BANDONS ME!, a book that I
translated from the Harold Robbins so that everybody can be free! The first few
chapters of that are up--and i'll be adding chapters as I code them and i'll
also be adding some wonderfully funny drawings by todd tracy that he did for the
book. one is available now.
I encourage everyone to check out the page and let me know what you think.
comments on the html-ness of the page are welcome also.
-----------Also by Tom Veitch, THE LUIS ARMED STORY-- great stuff!-------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another new yorker is funny as well:
Tom Veitch, Death College and Other Poems
turned on to me by Don Cheney light-years ago. Which reminds me that Don has
written one of the funniest books i've ever read. It's called the qualms of
Catullus at K-mart and it's a translation of catullus' opus. Don catches
much more of the spirit of catullus than zukofsky. Some snippets follow.
Furius, who is a serious necker, is an archaic necker.
His necking doesn't climax, his necking ignites.
I am you and father and new wave. We quarrel
about dentists and the mess made by silent possums.
It is pulchritue to me who has two parents.
Varus, my cat is in love with you.
You Pig! Let's duke it out!
You little squirt! Repent! You are a pig!
A pig with an upset stomach! You're not sane!
Don't sermonize, don't quibble, just quit it!
It is magnificent, horrible, sacred and libel!
When you solicit Catullus for advice
you'll miss coninuity and die like a rat.
Saturn will turn but you will die!
If luxury and a library
are your interests I'll bite your chin.
I love your big, night eyes Calvus
but you're a pest not a poet.
I command you to be my lover,
Aurelius. You can pet and put it in
but keep your quick, animal hands off Juventius,
who is a casting expert and is intelligent.
When salt is firm and not false, Prickface dies.
For sure is the language of kings,
oh cutie-pie the language of all geniuses and Pisces.
Language doesn't complain, but Prickface is exasperated.
He concedes to sit with gods (he isn't always dumb).
The gods praise salt and dumb Prickface eggs them on.
hi five Don,
Bill
>-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging)
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>Message-ID: <951214111340_54025405@mail04.mail.aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:13:45 -0500
>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
>Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
>From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: The Kink of Comedy
>Comments: cc: drothschild@penguin.com, 72330.3423@compuserve.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list POETICS <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:48:32 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Comedy
>>I'm tempted to ask the opposite question.
>>Who today writes poems that
>>don't include humor?
>>Ron
That's a good question did you know ron ron means to purr.
It (being funny) is obvious for some people who invoke humor like CharlesB
and Kevin Killian and Piaget say (his new book is funny btw just by the cover
you know it's funny thanks ups) and a lot of free play which is very funny
and gives off lots of pleasure and eros.
Then there are others, ie some people get labled as serious/deep poets like
merwin or experimental poets or lyric poets and those poles can "seem" to
nullify "jokes". Ron you would probably not argue that this labelling is
correct should be changed is what i got from your question. You mean who
thinks Jackson MacLow is funny? And say Rae Armantrout, who thinks she's
hilarious ?
("die mommy scum"
& "you can stop dancing now, launch pad"
& "wedgie"
being sources of rounding belly laughs)
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:56:07 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: message to hank
In-Reply-To: <199512150505.AAA09896@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
please backchannel with further info. letters from outsiders can
sometimes worsen the situation if not carefully directed to the issues.
i assume that most of us can only write of our high opinion of george's
written work and his generally good character -- i assume that his dept.
has given him some reason (that should not be published here) for the
turndown -- please let me know privately whatever you're at liberty to
reveal, and i'll then get a letter off --Need to know, for example,
whteher that fine book, which was written before he got the job, was
counted in his probationary period or not --
--aldon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:35:04 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: printed RRR (was Iowa's secret)
re: book prices on cover. for whatever it may or maynot be worth, this:
all talisman books carry a price on the cover, and if/when it's necessary
to change the price, we'll add a sticker over the original. the problem
is the barcode, which contains the original price, and that wd have to be
stickered, too. a fair number of publishers we deal with in one fashion
or another don't have the price in the bar code. but i have a feeling
they're generally the people who are publishing for profit, and they'll
move the price up as far as they think the market will allow. well, maybe
i'm wrong, but i think it's better to keep the price within a decent
range--i.e., as low as possible--and then you'll have more readers, no
small matter when the audience is about as small as the audience for
any kind of book anywhere. ANYWAY: the new terrific Talisman catalogue
is now being printed, and if you're not already on our mailing list and
you want a copy, please write: Talisman, P.O. Box 3157, Jersey City, NJ
07303-3157.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:42:39 -0800
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: WaldrOops
Uh, sorry, but I had the wrong day & date for the Rosmarie Waldrop reading
in Seattle. It's still at 8:00 at the New City Theater, but the date is
Wednesday 28 February, not the Tuesday of that week. & it's not the last
day of the month either.
I hope you all are able to change your hotel and airline reservations for
your visit to see/hear this reading.
Bests
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:47:48 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: New Web Page: Book Arts & Book History [xposted] (fwd)
- - The original note follows - -
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:23:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "ANDREW K. PACE" <PACEA@cua.edu>
Subject: New Web Page
To: BOOK_ART-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU, BIBLIO@SMARTLINK.NET, LETPRESS@UNB.CA,
EXLIBRIS@LIBRARY.BERKELEY.EDU, LIS-RAREBOOKS@MAILBASE.AC.UK,
LIBEX-L@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, TYPO-L@IRLEARN.UCD.IE,
CONDIST@LINDY.STANFORD.EDU, SHARP-L@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU,
ir000913@interramp.com, grossi@his.com, pp002537@interramp.com
Reply-To: lis-rarebooks@MAILBASE.AC.UK
Sender: lis-rarebooks-request@MAILBASE.AC.UK
GUIDE TO THE BOOK ARTS AND BOOK HISTORY ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB
http://www.cua.edu/www/mullen/bookarts.html
THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN CROSS-POSTED TO SEVERAL LISTS, SO PLEASE FORGIVE THE
DUPLICATION
The Catholic University of America Libraries and the School of Library and
Information Science at CUA are proud to announce a new site on the World Wide
Web.
"A Guide to the Book Arts and Book History on the World Wide Web" is an
organized list of links to Web pages that deal with book arts and
book history. The annotated list includes links to over 175 sites, and
includes pointers to: Academic & Special Collections, Book Arts Courses &
Exhibits, Booksellers, Discussion Lists, Electronic Journals & Publications,
Finding Aids & WWW Guides, Government Organizations, Professional & Scholarly
Organizations, and Special Topics (Bookbinding, Classics, Copyright,
Iconography, Language, Papyrology, Preservation, and Typography).
It is hoped that this guide will serve the needs of scholars, students, book
collectors, and anyone interested in "the book" and all its facets. Any
comments or suggestions of links to add are welcome and would be greatly
appreciated. The page remains under construction, and will be updated on a
regular basis.
The URL for this site is: http://www.cua.edu/www/mullen/bookarts.html
Happy Surfing,
Andrew K. Pace
Library Assistant Library and Information Science Library
Library Student School of Library and Information Science
pacea@cua.edu The Catholic University of America
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:59:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joshua N Schuster <jnschust@SAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
poetry's been covered exstensively on this strain, tho I would add much
of Steve McCaffery's work as well.
And perhaps ALL of the FLUXUS writers are quite vaudevillian. If it's
around, LaMonte Young's *An Anthology* is a chronical of such acute
silliness.
Perhaps the funniest work I've read at ever is Raymond Queneau's
_Exercises in Style_ (New Directions). A great example of finding humor
in the most banal of circumstances, which I usually find more challenging
than straight stand-up "schtick".
I tend to get carried away w/ laughter but I would go as far as to toss
people like Derrida and Baudrillard in as some of the most hilarious
theorists.
hahe,
joshua
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:09:28 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
In-Reply-To: <199512151704.LAA21722@charlie.acc.iit.edu>
joe: hope you dont mind:
Who-l
saw the best minds
my generation
destroyed by madness
starving
hysterical
naked
dragging
angelheaded
who
who
who
who
who
who
who
incomparable
Peyote
who
who
who
yacketayakking
whole
who
suffering
who who who who who who who
who who who who who
who who who who who who who
who who who who
who who who who who who who who who who
who who who who who
who who who who who who who who
Pilgrim
ah
who
to
the
and
with.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:34:40 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
In-Reply-To: <199512151704.LAA21722@charlie.acc.iit.edu>
Joe Amato's Ginsburg parody reminds me: don't you folks
think Poe's "The Bells" hilarious?
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg Duke University
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program
(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708
FAX (919) 684-6277
There is some excitement in one corner,
but most of the ghosts are merely shaking their heads.
-- Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:42:14 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "D. LaBeau" <dlabeau@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Thanks/Comedy
Thanks for the big response to my comedy request. I'll be taking a look at
a lot of stuff. Ron S.'s question: Who isn't writing funny these days?
was quite a doozy. Made me realize every reading I've been to lately
was full of 'funny' poems, though the sharpness of the humor varied.
Even dark & serious poets like Strand were doing stand-up routines,
and from the slams I've seen, it seems that humor has replaced
brooding as the dominant mode of the hip youngster poem.
Thanks again,
Dan LaBeau
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:34:29 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Baker <E7E4BAK@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
Subject: Hartley Tenure Decision
Comments: To: BAKER@MIDGET.TOWSON.EDU
I want to thank Hank Lazer for alerting members of the Poetics Listing to the
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:43:09 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Baker <E7E4BAK@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
Subject: Hartley Tenure Decision
Comments: To: BAKER@MIDGET.TOWSON.EDU
I wanted to communicate public gratitude to Hank Lazer for alerting
those on the Poetics List to the travesty of the negative tenure
decision concerning one of the most stimulating and informed writers
on contemporary poetry and poetics. I further think that it is
*extremely* unfortunate that the recent tenor of discussion regarding
the evils of the reductively-labled "professionalism" caused Hank
to feel he had to apologize in any way whatsoever for his listing.
His posting was perhaps the most important one I've seen in my three
months on the list. If such issues are not of vital importance to
the community involved in poetry and poetics, I can't imagine what
would be. Thanks again, Hank.
Peace,
Peter Baker
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:47:08 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Baker <E7E4BAK@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
Subject: How to Be a Poet
Comments: To: BAKER@MIDGET.TOWSON.EDU
This is a belated response to Mike Boughn's minimalist response
to the query: how to be a poet? The response:
write poetry
leaves out the important corollary:
read the poetry written by others, now and in the past
and I would probably add:
know another language well enough to translate a poet in that
language whose work you admire
Literally anyone can write poetry. All children are born poets.
But to *be* a poet, I think we can agree, past the age of say,
15, is a little more complicated. Just a little. No?
Peace,
Peter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:05:46 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: comedy
>poetry's been covered exstensively on this strain, tho I would add much
>of Steve McCaffery's work as well.
>
>And perhaps ALL of the FLUXUS writers are quite vaudevillian. If it's
>around, LaMonte Young's *An Anthology* is a chronical of such acute
>silliness.
>
>Perhaps the funniest work I've read at ever is Raymond Queneau's
>_Exercises in Style_ (New Directions). A great example of finding humor
>in the most banal of circumstances, which I usually find more challenging
>than straight stand-up "schtick".
>
>I tend to get carried away w/ laughter but I would go as far as to toss
>people like Derrida and Baudrillard in as some of the most hilarious
>theorists.
>
>hahe,
>joshua
Dear Joshua-
As one of the founders of Fluxus, I would like to observe that "silly"
comes from the same archaic stem (there is debate on the details) as
"soul"-as we find in the German word "selig" (blessed). May all our best
work have its silly aspect!
Dick Higgins
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:38:25 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Davidson <rdavidson@UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Help -- George Hartley
I'd like to second Hank Lazer's appeal on behalf of George Hartley. I can't
imagine a more productive, active scholar than GH, and given what Hank says
about his reviewers there should have been little question of a positive
vote right down the line. George has written an important first book and has
published significant articles in important venues. I don't know what else
Iowa wants in an academic, but if he were coming up for tenure in my dept.
he'd certainly get it on the strength of his very active career. I would
urge others to respond to the Dean and Provost--it may be that they are out
of the loop when it comes to innovative poetics and the criticism thereof.
Michael Davidson
At 11:08 AM 12/14/95 CST6CDT, you wrote:
>Poetics Group:
>
>Given the tenor & topics of discussions of the past couple of weeks,
>be forewarned: this message is not for everyone. It is an appeal
>for help, and it involves academia and the treatment of an academic.
>It's also a fairly lengthy message, and it does involve a person's
>livelihood. If you've already lost interest, delete the message
>now....
>
>George Hartley and I have been communicating over his department's
>decision (October 20th - English Department - Ohio State University)
>to deny him tenure. After a series of very positive yearly reviews,
>George was inexplicably voted down for tenure. As many of you on
>this list may already know, George is the author of _Textual Politics and
>the Language Poets_ (1989, Indiana University Press - the first book of
>criticism published by an academic press on Language poetry).
>George's critical writing focuses on Marxist criticism. _Textual
>Politics_ includes a chapter, "Jameson's Perelman: Reification and
>the Material Signifier," which takes Jameson to task.
>
>In addition to _Textual Politics_, George has published 12 articles
>(2 of which have been republished by other journals), 6 book reviews,
>and 2 lengthy poems, in addition to delivering 7 scholarly talks. He
>has also nearly completed a second book (which he has been
>researching and writing for the past four years--on theories of
>language, representation, and ideology in Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche, and
>Jameson).
>
>George's external evaluators were Jerry McGann, Charles Altieri,
>Charles Bernstein, Robert Wess, and Michael Sprinker. While Sprinker
>offered a negative evaluation, the others were very positive.
>McGann, for example, concludes that Hartley would definitely have
>gotten McGann's positive vote for tenure at Virginia; Altieri calls
>Hartley's book on language poetry quite simply the best critical work
>done on that subject.
>
>I know Hartley to be a dedicated teacher and a fine, passionate
>thinker. I have written on _Textual Politics_ in an essay in ALH,
>and Hartley's work figures in my forthcoming _Opposing Poetries_.
>
>George has appealed the negative departmental decision to the Dean.
>I am in the process of writing a letter to George's Dean. If you are
>familiar with George's work and would like to help, I suggest that
>you write a letter to George's Dean. Letters need to arrive by
>January 3rd. Please address your letter to the Dean and send a copy
>to the provost and the president and to George.
>
>addresses:
>
>Kermit Hall, Dean of Humanities
>The Ohio State University
>186 University Hall
>230 N. Oval Mall
>Columbus, OH 43210
>
>Richard Sisson, Provost
>The Ohio State University
>203 Bricker Hall
>190 N. Oval Mall
>Columbus, OH 43210
>
>E. Gordon Gee, President
>The Ohio State University
>205 Bricker Hall
>190 N. Oval Mall
>Columbus, OH 43210
>
>George Hartley
>2023 Queensbridge Drive
>Columbus, OH 43235
>
>I will be glad to provide additional information as needed
>back-channel ( hlazer@as.ua.edu ) so as not to clog up other Poetic
>discussions.
>
>My apologies for this lengthy intrusion into other threads of current
>discussions, but I believe that George has not been treated fairly
>and that letters may help him.
>
>Hank Lazer
>
>
Michael Davidson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:16:02 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jms <jms@TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
I always think Stein is very funny. Or more recently, Kevin Davies.
Juliana Spahr
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:25:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: short, late-night version of a long, long list....
>I'm tempted to ask the opposite question. Who today writes poems that
>don't include humor?
>
>Ron
WS Merwin
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:25:39 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: o plus
AR Ammons is very very unfunny, esp when trying to be funny
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:28:37 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marjorie Perloff <perloff@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 14 Dec 1995 to 15 Dec 1995
In-Reply-To: <199512160505.AAA04192@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
I want to second Aldon Nielsen's cautionary and practical note re: the
very unfortunate George Hartley case. I heard about it from mutual
friends at Ohio State a few weeks ago but thought I'd fill in a little
background here.
I believe I was largely instrumental in first getting George this job. I
spoke to the chair, wrote a letter raving about the language-poetry book,
etc. Not only did they hire George, they hired Jessica Prinz, my
student, who has a wonderful book ART DISCOURSE, DISCOURSE ON ART that
many of you will know, and she has since gotten tenure. They hired a
slew of other former students and terrific young people, incl. Nancy
Johnson (composition & rhetoric), Sebastian Knowles, Walter "Mac" Davis,
a fine Marxist theorist, etc.
This year I was asked to do a tenure case for them on Jon Erickson who
does very theoretical cutting edge stuff on theatre and writes plays,
performance art, etc. I wrote a very positive letter and I take it so
did others--it went through.
I did not know George was up for tenure this year and was not asked to
write, which, now that I think of it, must mean that they didn't want me
to praise him yet again (as they knew I would).
So how to interpret what happened? I don't know but will try to find
out. It just may be a teaching problem. But you cannot just assume that
some gross injustice has been done because Ohio State English dept. (not
Iowa, Michael!) is one of the most forward-looking depts I know of and
they are by no means opposed to the new poetries, to materialist
criticism etc.
As Aldon notes, just writing letters may do more harm than good,
especially if they imply that there's some kind of conspiracy afoot
against George's kind of work. So I would caution people on this list
about writing letters till we find out what the problem supposedly
was/is. Then we can do something more concrete.
Marjorie Perloff
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:07:17 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Eryque Gleason <gleaeri@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: comedy
William Fuller's "byt" has some *very* dry humor in it...
everyone with children is passing by the obvious! FOX IN SOCKS (if you'll
allow a good bit of latitude with the term poem) still a favorite read of
mine.
Eryque
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 03:23:55 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: printed RRR (was Iowa's secret)
Ed Foster wrote:
"well, maybe
i'm wrong, but i think it's better to keep the price within a decent
range--i.e., as low as possible--and then you'll have more readers, no
small matter when the audience is about as small as the audience for
any kind of book anywhere."
Geez Ed! That $16.95 sticker price on Gerrit Lansing's _Heavenly
Tree/Soluble Forest_ seemed a bit high compared to similar collections
available from say O Books, Chax, or Listening Chamber. Glad you published
it; somebody had to & I ponied up the $, but OUCH!!!
all best,
Charles Smith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:23:27 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: comedy
Merwin IS hilarious. He just doesn't know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:10:42 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: comedy
In-Reply-To: <v01520d04acf74eb23b27@[205.134.228.32]> from "Kevin Killian" at
Dec 15, 95 08:18:08 am
Kevin Killian raises the interesting (and to me sometimes troubling)
question of the difference between laughing with and laughing at.
Obviously one of the great political equalizers is laughter. But
having just tracked through the movement from _Paradise Lost_ to _The
Rape of the Lock_ to _The Visions of the Daughters of Albion_, I can't
help but realize that laughter can also sound shrill and shallow and
defensive when it becomes geared solely toward laughing at those who have
taken the tremendous risks satirists are incapable of taking.
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:25:33 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 14 Dec 1995 to 15 Dec 1995
>I want to second Aldon Nielsen's cautionary and practical note re: the
>very unfortunate George Hartley case. I heard about it from mutual
>friends at Ohio State a few weeks ago but thought I'd fill in a little
>background here.
>
>I believe I was largely instrumental in first getting George this job. I
>spoke to the chair, wrote a letter raving about the language-poetry book,
>etc. Not only did they hire George, they hired Jessica Prinz, my
>student, who has a wonderful book ART DISCOURSE, DISCOURSE ON ART that
>many of you will know, and she has since gotten tenure. They hired a
>slew of other former students and terrific young people, incl. Nancy
>Johnson (composition & rhetoric), Sebastian Knowles, Walter "Mac" Davis,
>a fine Marxist theorist, etc.
>This year I was asked to do a tenure case for them on Jon Erickson who
>does very theoretical cutting edge stuff on theatre and writes plays,
>performance art, etc. I wrote a very positive letter and I take it so
>did others--it went through.
>I did not know George was up for tenure this year and was not asked to
>write, which, now that I think of it, must mean that they didn't want me
>to praise him yet again (as they knew I would).
>So how to interpret what happened? I don't know but will try to find
>out. It just may be a teaching problem. But you cannot just assume that
>some gross injustice has been done because Ohio State English dept. (not
>Iowa, Michael!) is one of the most forward-looking depts I know of and
>they are by no means opposed to the new poetries, to materialist
>criticism etc.
>As Aldon notes, just writing letters may do more harm than good,
>especially if they imply that there's some kind of conspiracy afoot
>against George's kind of work. So I would caution people on this list
>about writing letters till we find out what the problem supposedly
>was/is. Then we can do something more concrete.
>
>Marjorie Perloff
Of course I'm not in academia these days (actually I'm about to start
teaching in Sweden half each year for a while-jag talar liten svenska), and
I don't like to see shop talk in the POETICS group. But I do think your
advice is probably the best--let someone who knows the department check the
matter out and see what is what. I remember a tenure fight at Rutgers some
years ago. I asked my friend if I should do anything, write any letters? He
said: "keep out of the way." I did. He won on appeal. Campaigns can
backfire so easily (I've seen that happen too), because they tend to
embarrass their departments and thus to involve the deans and members of
the department who might otherwise have been simpatico.
I keep seeing "comedy" on the menu, but when I order it I just find
bibliograohy, remarks about Ammons and his ilk who are barely noticed in
the real world. What theories of comedy are afoot these days in academia? I
have no idea. I once ventured a theory, unsatisfactorily, and the matter
interests me--but I've no idea what you folks read.
Dick Higgins
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:38:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: printed RRR (was Iowa's secret)
>Ed Foster wrote:
>
>"well, maybe
>i'm wrong, but i think it's better to keep the price within a decent
>range--i.e., as low as possible--and then you'll have more readers, no
>small matter when the audience is about as small as the audience for
>any kind of book anywhere."
>
>Geez Ed! That $16.95 sticker price on Gerrit Lansing's _Heavenly
>Tree/Soluble Forest_ seemed a bit high compared to similar collections
>available from say O Books, Chax, or Listening Chamber. Glad you published
>it; somebody had to & I ponied up the $, but OUCH!!!
>
>all best,
>Charles Smith
Perhaps it should be required for all English Profs to take a quicky course
in business. Assuming Lansing's book was printed in 1000 copies (typical)
and that it cost $4500 to do, then its unit cost is $4.50. Its appropriate
retail cost should therefore be between four and five times that
amount--let's say $20--to cover dtore or distributor discounts, storage,
shipping, warehousiung, insurance, etc. In most countries on thie earth it
would be.
But Lansing's book is in competition with trade publishers items,
especially with their novels. American book publishers make little money on
book sales in comparison with rights sales. For them the book version is
therefopre apt to be only an unfortunate necessity, which one gets over
with as fast as possible--and with as high numbers as possible. This last
is achieved by underpricing the book. The trade book is therefore in
competition with the small press or special program (poetry is a special
program item when trade publishers do such things---their objective is
prestige), and it forces the price down on the latter by comparison. Even
so, the great unwashed (like you and me) tends to see these categories as
overpriced and snob luxuries, which fits right into the RadRight
accusations of "elite," when what is really going on is that the books are
not subsidized by rights sales, the trade publishers' equivalent of grants.
Alas--
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:07:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jorge Guitart <MLLJORGE@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Uncle Vanya in Reader's Digest
Comments: To: Thomas Bell <tbjn@well.com>
Comments: cc: poetics <poetics@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>,
cris cheek <cris@slang.demon.co.uk>,
MDamon9999@aol.com, lsr3h@darwin.clas.virginia.edu, jdavis@panix.com,
welford@hawaii.edu, semurphy@indirect.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9512152020.A28391-0100000@well>
[with words or silences by Tom Bell, Jordan Davis, Maria Damon, Gabrielle
Wellford, Cris Cheek, Lisa Samuels, Sheila Murphy, Chris Scheil, & Jorge
Guitart
> > > > newt of force
> > too fond of
> > chalk
> > makes perspective dead
> >
> > run the pitter-patter of
> > gallupatrot
> >
> > could never hold the temporal
> > dwarf
> >
> > imitate walking
> >
> > knew i was the device
> > of roundness
> >
> > obscuring panic
> > grace
> > parasol
> >
> > elfin gnocchi swollen
> > shot pink
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:08:20 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: comedy
Michael Boughn (mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca) writes:
>Kevin Killian raises the interesting (and to me sometimes troubling)
>question of the difference between laughing with and laughing at.
>Obviously one of the great political equalizers is laughter. But
>having just tracked through the movement from _Paradise Lost_ to _The
>Rape of the Lock_ to _The Visions of the Daughters of Albion_, I can't
>help but realize that laughter can also sound shrill and shallow and
>defensive when it becomes geared solely toward laughing at those who have
>taken the tremendous risks satirists are incapable of taking.
And I'm thinking about this, and I have to agree. Yet I don't think "my"
kind of laughter is capable of being dismissed just *because* it is shrill,
defensive and shallow. There has to be a place in discourse for
shrillness, shallowness and defensiveness, don't you think? They may be
unpleasing to the ear, but they are the responses of a mind in extremis
appalled yet impressed by the punitive nature of the insistence on the
normative (by its "aura.") I don't mind playing Jerry Lewis to the
insolent authority of Dean Martin (Charles Olson, Robert Duncan, etc etc);
I can assert my selfhood only at the price of a continuing, humiliating
dependency. As Steven Shaviro says (in *The Cinematic Body*), "Comedy in
general is driven by the joint impulses of dependency and exhibitionism,
with the latter both compensating for and replicating the former.
Abjection is not cathartically discharged, but prolonged, sublimated and
displaced by means of spectacle." Laterally: is it valuable to emphasize
the polarity between "laughing at" and "laughing with"? Seems to me that
every time we laugh "with" Bob Perelman, Charles Bernstein, etc., we are
laughing "at" something or somebody else; and in the case of Blaser-which I
think you, Michael, brought up as an example of "good" laughter-it seems
plain to me that Blaser indeed is to poetry what Jerry Lewis is to the
cinema-a great visionary poet of the abject, humiliated and (yes) the
defensive. There are many styles of risk and his is one of the most
daring, but I don't think it's particularly "sane."
Thanks! Kevin Killian
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:08:53 -40962758
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jim Rosenberg <jr@AMANUE.PGH.NET>
Subject: Bar Codes
This is a bit off topic, but since it's come up more than once now:
I believe it is a myth that barcodes encode the price. Frankly, I don't know
where this idea comes from. The normal procedure -- say in a grocery store --
is for the barcode to contain nothing but a product identifying code. It
may look to you like the register is scanning price, but that's not what's
happening. The barcode reader scans the product code, this is sent to the
store's computer where it's looked up in a database, and *the database*
contains the price. Prices can change whenever they need to. I believe the
way the product code works is that it's in two parts: there's an agency
somewhere that registers companies assigning them a company code, and then
each company assigns its own code for its individual products.
I'm not sure how it works for books, but I'd assume the system is similar; I'd
be quite surprised if the barcode did not include the ISBN. A lot of the more
sophisticated bookstores give you a register slip that shows the name of the
book. Clearly that information is coming from a database.
There is no reason for a barcode sticker on a book to change when a price
changes.
--
Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/
CIS: 71515,124
WELL: jer
Internet: jr@amanue.pgh.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:44:25 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "CAROLYN L. FORCHE-MATTISON" <cforchem@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Arizona/Sheila Murphy
In-Reply-To: <m0tR06P-000FYhC@amanue.pgh.net>
I'm engaged in writing an introduction for an anthology of poets
residing in Arizona, and have been pleased to see the inclusion of
Sheila Murphy's work, but wonder if there are other poets, whom this
list might recommend(?), working in innovative poetries in Arizona.
While there is careful attention to ethnic/racial/cultural diversity
in this particular gathering, I'm concerned that it represent the range
of sensibilities as well. Please backchannel if you can help me with
this. . .
Thank you so much.
--Carolyn
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:11:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Bar Codes/comedy menu
In-Reply-To: <m0tR06P-000FYhC@amanue.pgh.net>
the bar code on my copy of at the roots of the stars the short plays
djuna barnes has three number strings: ISBN 1-55713-160-0, 51295, and 9
781557 131607. The list price of the book is $12.95. I don't think that
51295 that sits on top of the second bar code like the words "silent
pillow" on top of the column of the last issue of the impercipient are
actually part of the upc but I do think it's reasonable for people to
think that the price is barcoded in.
and my theory of comedy is this:
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:26:35 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Language aLive book series
re: the Language aLIve series advertised here a couple of days back
Pierre posted to let know that:
> cris,
> can't read the prices -- they translated funny into ascii, like
> =3DA34.50 (uk) / =3DA35.50 (elsewhere)
so - maybe he's not alone with his funny money and I'm happy to oblige -
1 issue only =A3four pounds + fifty pence (uk) / =A3five pounds + fifty penc=
e
(elsewhere)
2 issues =A3eight pounds (uk) / =A3ten pounds (elsewhere)
3 issues =A3eleven pounds (uk) / =A3thirteen pounds (elsewhere)
4 issues =A3fourteen pounds (uk) / =A3seventeen pounds (elsewhere)
5 issues =A3sixteen pounds (uk) / =A3eighteen pounds (elsewhere)
it pays to subscribe (as they say)
btw - I'm more than eager to swap.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:27:53 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Bar Codes/comedy menu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951216180820.1575A-100000@panix2.panix.com>
sorry, that should read:
my theory of comedy are this:
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 03:08:32 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Landers <landers@VIVANET.COM>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
My wife and I read Don Byrd's *Great Dimestore Centennial* to each other and
there were points when we were laughing tears. In fact, early in the book he
says, "it's not inappropriate to laugh. If you laugh the book will wait. It
has perfect timing."
A friend who is a choreographer complained that people laughed at the wrong
times during her work. It seems to me that laughter is not always a result of
something funny.
A laugh, like an "aha!", is a visceral reaction. The choreographer's or the
poet's idea has made contact. The reaction is a bounce in the solar plexus.
Boing! I got it! Ha-ha-ha!
I want people to laugh during performances.
Pete Landers
landers@vivanet.com
p.s. Dick, 4 or 5 times the cost? I only double. No wonder I'm broke!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:11:21 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Barcodes
All barcodes on books encode the isbn (product identification code which enables
the bookshop's computer to look up the price and deduct the item from stock).
Some barcodes also themselves encode the price - and any other information the
publisher wishes. You can spot this because these barcodes have an extension,
whereas isbn-only barcodes are compact.
Reality Street Editions' forthcoming _Out of Everywhere_ anthology will be our
first title to carry a barcode. I've taken this step with reluctance, as I think
barcodes are an unaesthetic intrusion on the design coherence of a book cover.
Our barcode will encode isbn only - among other reasons, because we're hoping
for bookshop sales in foreign countries, eg the USA and Canada, where obviously
the price will be different.
Incidentally, the reason why Cris' pound signs come out as gobbledygook is
because ascii means "AMERICAN standard code for information interchange". In
other words, the dollar sign is an ascii character, the pound sign is not. (The
yen sign isn't even on my keyboard.) Cultural imperialism rules!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:23:44 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ward Tietz <100723.3166@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Gomringer, concrete poetry & humor
Some of the comments of the last few days on comedy in poetry have seemed to
point to the role of context in humor. It reminded me of Eugen Gomringer's
reading / lecture here in Geneva a few months ago at the sound poetry festival.
What was amazing about it was how charming it all was. Gomringer's reading was
preceded by a short documentary on concrete poetry that was aired on Swiss
television some 30 years ago. It was very formal and the rhetoric was rather
didactic. A lot of the theoretical and aesthetic pronouncements seemed even a
little silly in today's context, but as the evening unfolded it became clear
that the documentary was in fact the perfect pre-text in contrast to what came
next.
Gomringer's reading followed and it was brilliant, as were his descriptions of
the individual concrete poems that were projected up on the screen. It was all
amazingly funny, but in a way I have never quite seen at any poetry reading.
Concrete poetry has been criticized for being somewhat corny and overly reliant
on puns. In the performative dimension though, in this context, it was charming
in the full sense of the word "charm."
Ward Tietz
Rte de St. Cergue 48a
CH-1260 Nyon
Switzerland
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:53:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
>My wife and I read Don Byrd's *Great Dimestore Centennial* to each other and
>there were points when we were laughing tears. In fact, early in the book he
>says, "it's not inappropriate to laugh. If you laugh the book will wait. It
>has perfect timing."
>
>A friend who is a choreographer complained that people laughed at the wrong
>times during her work. It seems to me that laughter is not always a result of
>something funny.
>
>A laugh, like an "aha!", is a visceral reaction. The choreographer's or the
>poet's idea has made contact. The reaction is a bounce in the solar plexus.
>Boing! I got it! Ha-ha-ha!
>
>I want people to laugh during performances.
>
>Pete Landers
>landers@vivanet.com
>
>p.s. Dick, 4 or 5 times the cost? I only double. No wonder I'm broke!
Dear Pete-
Well, that's how the trade publisahers figure it-I know because I have
worked for them. And of course the Wallace Foundation and CLMP people
reflect trade publisher perspectives--"Let 'em eat caKE." I don't think
they want us out of business, but they do not understand what business we
are in-the business of disseminating new work and ideas, in which our only
survival strategy is to generate gigs which will pay, since the books will
not sell enough to do so even at a forced subsidized price.
Grim reflection for a pleasant Sunday.
Bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:59:14 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
here's to second pete landers' remarks re don byrd's _the great dimestore
centennial_... it's not just funny---don's sense of humor is dead
serious... laughter can almost hurt when this is the case... my favorite
section is the final book, "the book of the lighthouse"...
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:02:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: at the risk of
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:23:27 -0800
>From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
>Subject: Re: comedy
>
>Merwin IS hilarious. He just doesn't know it.
at the risk of sending sparks flying, this would imply wouldn't it that Jung
is also quite the jokester. A proposition w which I have no problem
Tenney
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 14:07:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Writer Wanted for "Writer's Almanac" Radio Show
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:30:13 -0500 (EST)
From: John Pearson <jpearson@mpr.org>
Subject: Re: job posting
Thanks for contacting me about our need for assistance for the Writer's
Almanac program with Garrison Keillor. I'd be most gratified if you posted
something to your subscribers about the need; what follows is a description
of the situation. Interested individuals can email me directly.
-----------------------------
The Writer's Almanac is a nationally broadcast program produced by Minnesota
Public Radio that is hosted by Garrison Keillor. A new program is aired each
day of the week on public radio stations. It includes historic and
contemporary tidbits of the day along with the reading of a poem.
The program is seeking support for research and script-writing.
The show uses seven scripts a week, each about 2.5 minutes long. We may be
setting this position up as a freelance activity in which we might
use more than a writer or two. Pay would be reasonable but not lucrative.
Scripts can be emailed to our headquarters in St. Paul.
It would be important for the writer(s) to be
able to hear the show on a regular basis (we may put parts of it on the
Internet at some time, but that's a few months (or more) off!).
If you wish to apply, we would like three sample Writer's Almanac scripts
along with a resume and cover letter. (If a script you wrote was aired we
would compensate you.) In the scripts we would be looking for a
demonstration of depth of research, editor's eye to select the 'right'
elements for the almanac entries, and the ability to write a script that is
sympathetic to Garrison's delivery and current script style.
For more information or to submit an application, email me: jpearson@mpr.org
------------------------------
John Pearson
jpearson@mpr.org Minnesota Public Radio
tel: 612-290-1404 45 East Seventh St., St. Paul, MN 55101
fax: 612-290-1260 http://www. mnonline.org/mpr
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 14:17:36 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: West Coast LIne (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:14:53 -0600 (CST)
From: peter quartermain <quarterm@unixg.ubc.ca>
The most recent issue of WEST COAST LINE (#17, Fall 1995), guest edited by
Peter Quartermain, contains 100 pages of recent British and Irish writing
by Tony Baker, Richard Caddel, Miles Champion, Cris Cheek, Ken Edwards,
Allen Fisher, Harry Gilonis, Alan Halsey, Randolph healy, Paul Holman,
Peter Middleton, Billy Mills, Geraldine Monk, Maggie O'Sullivan, Bridget
Penney, Peter Riley, Maurice Scully, Robert Sheppard, Colin Simms,
Geoffrey Squires, Ian Stephen and Catherine Walsh, PLUS "A Gathering
for Robin Blaser" with work from Charles Bernstein, Rachel Blau
DuPlessis, Kevin Killian, Michele Leggott, Leslie Scalapino,
Daphne Marlatt, Michael McClure, David Levi Straus, Jed Rasula, and
Robert Hullot-Kentor, plus reviews of Norma Cole, Rosmarie Waldrop,
Sau-Ling Cynthia Wong, King-Kok Cheung and Clayton Eshleman.
Anabatic for Horace by Bob Cobbing.
Full colour cover by Maggie O'Sullivan.
All 172 pages for a mere $10.00 PLUS $2.50 postage, from
West Coast Line, 2027 East Academic Annex, Simon Fraser University,
Burnaby, B.C., Canada V5A 1S6. Supplies are limited.
Subscriptions $30.00 a year (three issues) ($45.00 for institutions).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Quartermain
128 East 23rd Avenue Voice and fax (604) 876 8061
Vancouver e-mail Quarterm@unixg.ubc.ca
BC Canada V5V 1X2
---------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 15:24:44 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Comedy
Kevin:
I don't think your laughter should be dismissed, either, and I
apologize if that's how my post came across. It is much more complex
than my simplistic dichotomy (with or at) allows for. You're right
about that. For example, I know that my daughter needs to be able to
laugh at her father. Every child needs that. More importantly, every
parent, whether they admit it or not, needs to be laughed at. As the
object of that laughter (which is much more bearable now than it was 6
years ago when it cut to the quick) I need to be able to honor it,
which keeps me honest, but at the same time not to take it too
seriously (ha! taking laughter seriously, that's a good one). It's
something to do with what I see as the weirdness or mystery of
authority, that we (authors especially) both must have it, but also
constantly divest ourselves of it. What you refer to as Jerry Lewis is
after all not Jerry Lewis but the creation of a successful and wealthy
performer who, if he were as abject as all that, wouldn't be able to
open his mouth publicly.
Perhaps it's the inflection that's the issue. The two poems you
mention are very important poems to me, and though I can laugh at
Robert Duncan and Charles Olson for occasionally taking things
(themselves) too seriously, that laughter is always inflected with
deep gratitude and love for the immeasurable gifts they gave me, and
the risks they took to do that. Robin Blaser taught me that. (Charles
Boer's _Charles Olson in Connecticut_ seems to me a marvelous book
precisely because, unlike Tom Clark's, it manages to catch that
complexity in the complexity of its laughter.)
Best,
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 15:32:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Ontopoetics
Peter:
I think you changed the question, which as I recall was originally
"how do you know if you're a poet," as opposed to "what makes a poet."
If I were to be asked that question today, I think my response would
probably be: "the same way the garbageman knows he's a garbageman."
Best,
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 15:52:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Uncle Vanya in Reader's Digest
[with words or silences by Tom Bell, Jordan Davis, Maria Damon, Gabrielle
Wellford, Cris Cheek, Lisa Samuels, Sheila Murphy, Chris Scheil, & Jorge
Guitart
> > > > newt of force
> > too fond of
> > chalk
> > makes perspective dead
> >
> > run the pitter-patter of
> > gallupatrot
> >
> > could never hold the temporal
> > dwarf
> >
> > imitate walking
> >
> > knew i was the device
> > of roundness
> >
> > obscuring panic
> > grace
> > parasol
> >
> > elfin gnocchi swoll
> > shot pink
> > blue nevi
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 16:07:28 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Don of Comedy
Don Byrd gives great reading. I broke down laughing when he read the line:
x-7 was in the corner. And here feared it.
Where is that from?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 16:05:00 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Don of Comedy
bill, that's don's _the great dimestore centennial again_, though the line
you're thinking of methinks is a bit different, from the penultimate book,
"the book of the sun, the book of man (complete)"...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 17:28:38 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Kink of Comedy
>My wife and I read Don Byrd's *Great Dimestore Centennial* to each other an=
d
>there were points when we were laughing tears. In fact, early in the book h=
e
>says, "it's not inappropriate to laugh. If you laugh the book will wait. It
>has perfect timing."
>
>A friend who is a choreographer complained that people laughed at the wrong
>times during her work. It seems to me that laughter is not always a result =
of
>something funny.
>
>A laugh, like an "aha!", is a visceral reaction. The choreographer's or the
>poet's idea has made contact. The reaction is a bounce in the solar plexus.
>Boing! I got it! Ha-ha-ha!
>
>I want people to laugh during performances.
>
>Pete Landers
>landers@vivanet.com
>
>p.s. Dick, 4 or 5 times the cost? I only double. No wonder I'm broke!
Dear Pete-
On top of that there is part of "cost of doing business" known as "cost of
doing an invoice." Please see my reply to Charles Smith, who accuses me,
perhaps correctly but certainly unintentionally, of being on a high horse
with him (though know him I don't). But as I see it, any remarks we make on
these exchanges are, however, not just addressed personally to each other
but to fellow participants in the overall exchange, so they shouldn't
usually be taken personally. Anyway, I've sent off my remarks to him on
doing an invoice and what all this means in terms of what we EXPECT TO PAY
vs. what we would NEED TO PAY if all costs were reflected in the price of a
book. I do not have access to Lansing's book which Smith finds so
overpriced, but I suspect the publisher was attempting to recoup his costs
without eying the competition and market, na=EFve perhaps but certainly
understandable.
Very bests
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:41:08 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Roberts <M.Roberts@ISU.USYD.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Bar Codes
>This is a bit off topic, but since it's come up more than once now:
>
>I believe it is a myth that barcodes encode the price. Frankly, I don't know
>where this idea comes from. The normal procedure -- say in a grocery store --
>is for the barcode to contain nothing but a product identifying code. It
>may look to you like the register is scanning price, but that's not what's
>happening. The barcode reader scans the product code, this is sent to the
>store's computer where it's looked up in a database, and *the database*
>contains the price. Prices can change whenever they need to. I believe the
>way the product code works is that it's in two parts: there's an agency
>somewhere that registers companies assigning them a company code, and then
>each company assigns its own code for its individual products.
>
>I'm not sure how it works for books, but I'd assume the system is similar; I'd
>be quite surprised if the barcode did not include the ISBN. A lot of the more
>sophisticated bookstores give you a register slip that shows the name of the
>book. Clearly that information is coming from a database.
>
>There is no reason for a barcode sticker on a book to change when a price
>changes.
>
>--
> Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/
> CIS: 71515,124
> WELL: jer
> Internet: jr@amanue.pgh.net
I've done some initial enquiries about placing barcodes on titles AWOL
distributes (most small press books don't have barcodes and a number of
bookshops have told me that they will not take t tles which are not
barcoded). From what I've been told by bookshops and the ABPA (Australian
Book Publishers Association) the barcode contains the ISBN and product
description. When the barcode is scanned it is matched to a record in a
data base where the price is recorded.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 18:02:19 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "D. LaBeau" <dlabeau@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Arizona/Sheila Murphy
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.951216124038.1593A-100000@osf1.gmu.edu>
On Sat, 16 Dec 1995, CAROLYN L. FORCHE-MATTISON wrote:
> I'm engaged in writing an introduction for an anthology of poets
> residing in Arizona, and have been pleased to see the inclusion of
> Sheila Murphy's work, but wonder if there are other poets, whom this
> list might recommend(?), working in innovative poetries in Arizona.
> While there is careful attention to ethnic/racial/cultural diversity
> in this particular gathering, I'm concerned that it represent the range
> of sensibilities as well. Please backchannel if you can help me with
> this. . .
>
Check out Rebecca Byrkit's poetry. She has a collection, Zealand, out from
Sun/Gemini Press. Not language poetry but very innovative. She teaches in
Tucson.
Also, Lisa Cooper, who I think still lives in Arizona, has some great
things out from Chax Press.
Daniel LaBeau
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 19:31:55 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: FUNKHOUSER CHRISTOPH <cf2785@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: comedy
Remember the early part of the year
when the poetics list had some really comical moments?
The AHP said:
>
> I was either reading Tjanting in an airport (strange since I haven't
> actually even seen this book). It was a really difficult text, and there
> were rhymed parts to it like a Charlie Bernstein piece. I think the
> poem had the f-word and the word love in it a lot. The airport was
> designed in a Russian sort of way with old people selling flavored
> vodka out of shopping carts. The really strange thing about this
> dream is how Silliman looked on the cover of the book. He had on a
> dress and I think he had something like glitter in his beard. He had
> his arms raised in a pose like Patti Smith on the cover of Easter and I
> saw that like Patti he hadn't shaved his armpits, and the hair was
> dyed green, like Dennis Rodman. He seemed happy. Strange dream,
> eh? Just thought I'd pass that along, and give everyone the chance to
> play armchair Freud. My analysis: I was thinking about dyeing my
> hair last night, which is where the unshaved, green armpits come in.
>
-for those who weren't around then, check the EPC archives--
feb. '95, i think. (btw, this passage also shows up
in Bill Luoma's bio on the little magazine cd-rom)
Hopefully it's ok to add: Hakim Bey rages (then again,
that's poetic terrorism, not poetry, right?), &, without question, some
of Nate Mackey's prose is *hilarious* - Eileen Myles checks in
w/some terrific (sardonic?) humor too. &, naturally, there will always be
a few underinformed people who think language poetry is some kind of
twisted joke...
h h h !
lastly, if you haven't checked it out, DIU
(Descriptions of an Imaginary Universe) might be of interest
to anyone on this list. the annals of this ancient electronic poetry
newsletter contain some riotously funny moments (to boot, Michael Joyce has
said it is "the best thing on the Internet"). Check out the new issue (#32),
just out today, with Edgar Allen Poe's write-up of Ted Pearson.
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ezines/diu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 21:51:10 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: printed RRR (was Iowa's secret)
the point is, that shortrun books are expensive to produce. actual
printing cost vary widely by region--i just had a 144 page book
quoted at $2100 for 1000 copies--so i wouldn't want to quibble w/ the
numbers others have given... but the actual printing bill is far from
the whole story. design costs, promotion, postage, mailing envelopes,
free copies to reviewers & collegues, all add up to significant costs.
charles breaks down one example in his "Provisional Institutions" essay
(i'll append the section for those w/out access to the EPC). the
actual numbers would be very different for Burning Press (Sun&Moon is
obviously much more businesslike), but the upshot is the same.
"bottom line": no-one is making any significant $$ publishing poetry,
at $6 or $20 per copy.
lbd
burning press/trr
au462@cleveland.freenet.edu
=====
from: "Provisional Institutions: Alternative Presses and Poetic Innovation"
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/bernstein/provisional
=====
Print-runs at Sun & Moon go from 1000 to 2000, depending, of course, on
likely sales. Messerli notes that print-runs of less than 1000 drive the unit
cost up too high and he encourages other literary presses to print a minimum
of 1000 copies if at all possible.
Sun & Moon titles are well-produced, perfectbound, and offset with full
color covers. The printing bill for this runs from $2600 to $4000 as you go
from 1000 to 2000 copies. Messerli estimates the cost of editing a 100-page
poetry book at $300: this covers all the work between the press receiving a
manuscript and sending it to a designer (including any copyeding and
proofreading that may be necessary as well as preparation of front and back
matter and cover copy). Typesetting is already a rarity for presses like Sun
& Moon, with authors expected to provide computer disks wherever possible.
Formatting these disks (converting them into type following specifications of
the book designer) can cost anywhere from $300 to $1000, one of those variable
labor costs typical of small press operations. The book designer will charge
about $500. The cover will cost an additional $100 for photographic
reproduction or permission fees or both. Publicity costs must also be
accounted for, even if, as at Sun & Moon, no advertising is involved.
Messerli estimates publicity costs at $1500, which covers the cost of
something like 100 free copies distributed to reviewers, postage and packing,
mailings and catalog pages, etc. The total cash outlay here, then, for 2000
copies, is around $6800. (For the sake of this discussion, overhead costs --
rent, salaries, office equipment, phone bills, etc -- are not included; such
costs typically are estimated at about 30 percent more than the cost of
production).
If all goes well, Sun & Moon will sell out of its print run in two
years. Let's say Sun & Moon prints 2000 copies of the book and charges $10
retail; let's also say all the books were sold. That makes a gross of
$20,000. Subtract from this a 50 percent wholesale discount (that is, most
bookstores will pay $5 for the book) and that leaves $10,000. Subtract from
this the 24 percent that Sun & Moon's distributor takes (and remember that
most small presses are too small to secure a distributor with a professional
sales force). That leaves $7600. Now last, but not to be totally forgotten,
especially since I am a Sun & Moon author, the poet's royalty; typically no
advance would be paid and the author would receive 10 percent of this last
figure, or $760. That leaves $6840 return to the publisher on a cash cost of
about $7000.
Charles Bernstein
[Later published in the _Arizona Quarterly_ 51, no. 1 (Spring 1995): 133-146]
=====
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:38:41 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "William M. Northcutt" <William.Northcutt@UNI-BAYREUTH.DE>
Subject: Slinger
And why isn't Slinger funny anymore? A serious question I ask you who said
so, as I sit here with my duck Helen Vendler who's rolling a dove-tail
joint and trying to read Charles Bernstein aloud to me.
------------------------------------------------------------
William Northcutt
Englische Literaturwissenschaft
Universitaet Bayreuth
95440 Bayreuth
Germany
william.northcutt@uni-bayreuth.de
fax:(921)553641
-----------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 02:24:00 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Bark Odes
Dick Higgins writes
I do not have access to Lansing's book which Smith finds so
overpriced, but I suspect the publisher was attempting to recoup his
costs without eying the competition and market, naive perhaps but
certainly understandable.
---------------------
Well, it's worth every penny. As is any book by Gerrit Lansing.
Although a fair portion (20 percent perhaps) of the poems here were
also included in the North Atlantic Books edition of 1979 (which
carries its price on its cover, pre-bar code days, as $4.00).
Which brings up some other points. First, to this eye (these eyes), it
would seem that this is a new "selected" poems, tho Bertholf in his
blurb states plainly "Gerrit Lansing has been writing a single, serial
poem since he began writing more than thirty-five years ago." If that
is to be taken literally (for there certainly is a non-literal way in
which that is true of us all). Is this in fact to be read as a "single
poem of many parts" and, if so, what of the missing parts?
Also, since Lansing still produces work that, in his own version of a
projective heritage, profoundly utilizes its sense of visual shape on
the page, I'm surprised, comparing these two texts, at how the rounded
10 point Navarro softens, almost occludes, that element of the poem
compared with the 10 point Palatino of the earlier book (Navarro's
letters are not only more rounded, but its lines very thin, its seriphs
minimalized almost out of existence), which I note is credited as
"Composition and design by Barrett Watten." The North Atlantic edition
has a slightly larger page (half and inch taller, half an inch wider)
and a 127 pages just over half the size of the Talisman House,
Publishers edition (I like that quirky comma, Ed).
Often, when I buy I a collected I've sold off the smaller, earlier
books from which it was constructed--largely in self-defense given the
absolute limit of space one's house presents for a library--but in this
case, owning one seems to make the other all the more dear, each volume
illumines the other.
Not having bought the recent Transbluency (if I have that title right)
of Jones/Baraka, I wonder how it differs from the late 70s Selected
Poems of LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka that Morrow did, beyond say the
Vangelisti intro (an odd choice for same?).
Comments?
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:00:57 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Slinger
William Northcutt asks a good question:
>
>And why isn't Slinger funny anymore?
I wasn't the one who originally said so, but I must say I've flip
flopped on this work a number of times over the years. I recall when I
first heard the opening sections of it (read aloud by Woody Haut from
photocopied mss pages in the long-ago torn down student cafteria @ SF
State) I had an almost allergic negative reaction, simply (I suspect)
because it so willfully (gleefully) abandoned many of the presumptions
of projective verse, not because it was funny as such (Olson's Maximus
is full of humor and the persona itself often seems like an eight-foot
version of Professor Irwin Corey, if you remember that 50s and 60s era
comic (whom Pynchon once sent to accept an award on his behalf)) so
much as because it dealt with actual, living pop culture, present day
materials in a way that the hallowed sense of Material (whether in
Olson's archival sense or, say, as Duncan treats the University of
California regents in Passages, a coins for an eternal process of evil)
seemed not to permit. Olson & Duncan in particular propose the poet as
a fairly serious shaman, counterbalanced as they were by O'Hara, Whalen
et al.
Later I would realize all the ways in which what Dorn did showed the
limitations in projective verse, in many ways a more radical critique
say than those made by Spicer precisely for having been inside the
frame for as long as he was. (And one of the great stories of
Projective Verse must be the dramatic ways in which Dorn, Baraka & to a
lesser degree Levertov all very publically abandoned the project.)
But as the books came forward, or didn't, it also became clear that
this comic book mode of scribing the end of philosophy was, as a
narrative project (and as a project it saw itself as narrative in very
profound ways), ultimately doomed. As a work, the book dissolves....
Since then of course, I've been saddened at the little squiblets of
notebook that have come forth as the last quarter century's worth of
work by Dorn, and appalled at the Babbitry of some of his editorial
commitments and comments, including (tho not limited to) publishing
Clark's homophobic AIDs stuff. I suppose it don't help that he says in
an interview somewhere that he doesn't need to read the language poets
because Tom Clark tells him all he needs to know (!)
So when I go back to those gorgeously crafted and witty lines of Book
I, I can't read them innocently anymore. These stanzas are the work of
a man destroying himself as a poet. Where is the humor in that?
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:41:35 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: hartley-tenure case
Thanks for various replies--front & back-channel--regarding George
Hartley's tenure case. I wanted to reply specifically to the
cautions offered by Marjorie Perloff, Aldon Nielsen, and George
Higgins. Of course, you are right: letters that suggest a conspiracy
or that suggest that Ohio State's English dept did an awful job would
not help. They would be counter-productive. I would value any
additional information about the decision itself, its basis. George
claims not to know why the decision was made in the negative. He
offered some speculations (which I have relayed once or twice back-
channel...). So, Marjorie, if you do find out some pertinent
information, please let me know.
Even so, I do think that letters may be of some limited help. I say
this as an assistant dean who reads and makes recommendations on many
tenure & promotion files each year. Marjorie, Aldon, and George are
correct to urge some caution. And we should also remember that we do
not have access to the complete file, and thus we cannot write
letters that pretend to be a thorough review of the file itself nor
of the process of decision-making. What I had in mind was more
limited in scope and intent. First, letters can help buoy George's
spirits. Second, letters can help the Dean and others to realize
that George's work is read, respected, and of consequence. I plan to
write a letter based on what I know--George's work--not one based on
what I don't know (ie the decision-making process and the politics of
the department). And we still do have time to learn a little more
about the case.
Finally, the most likely avenue for reversing the department's
decision will not be our letters but the appearance of some new
compelling evidence in the case--such as an acceptance of George's
second book-manuscript (which is currently being considered by a
major academic press). Deans and others are more likely to respond
favorably to new information than to letters from the morally or
aesthetically outraged.
Perhaps if you feel that a letter to the Dean would be counter-
productive, you might consider writing a note to George.
Thanks to each of you for your thoughts about George's case.
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:09:32 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slinger
Dear Ron--thanks for your thoughtful mini-essay on Dorn's career...
Of course, maybe to view SLINGER as central to what he's about is
part of the problem of judging him---perhaps like judging Shakespeare
in terms of Aristotlean unities!---
"But when the books came, forward, or didn't, it became clear that
this comic book mode of describing the end of philosophy as a
narrative project was ultimately doomed...."
Interesting, but doomed more than POUND?
Or just realizing the same mistake pound realized earlier?
I mean earlier than POUND?
And perhaps the tension between the comic book and the narrative
is at least as productive as say bruce andrews?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:21:49 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Keith Tuma <KWTUMA@MIAMIU.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slinger
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:09:32 -0500 from
<LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
So we're casting stones (not the first) at Dorn's Slinger?
Is "America" still funny if its poet has only a few keys left on his squeeze-
box?
Is Katherine Dunn's _Geek Love_ still satire after Waco?
Is the "new sentence" still new if it describes an old "period"?
It's laughter. It depends on your side.
--Chicken-House Willie's friend,
Helen Vendler
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:51:14 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: disn dat
In-Reply-To: <199512180504.AAA16025@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
well, there's some hope in this world -- I see that my local Tower
Records store has copies of a Kevin Killian book on prominent display in
their recently expanded book dept. alond with the five shelves of Rollins
(NOT Sonny) and the ten of Bukowski -- Kevin, I was never so glad to see you!
Maybe someone who knows the particulars of George's situation at Ohio
State could quietly fill in those of us who show up at the Sun & Moon or
Millenium gatherings in Chicago next week??? and then we could talk
about how we might be of help ?
aloing alond along --
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:32:29 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ward Tietz <100723.3166@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Gomringer, concrete poetry & humor
Robert, thanks for the request for more info on the sound poetry festival in
Geneva. For the last several years it has been organized by Vincent Barras,
who, along with Nicholas Zurbrugg, edited a book of essays and interviews
entitled Poesies Sonores (in French) in 1992 (Editions Contrechamps, ISBN
2-940068-00-3). Anyway, two evenings are usually programmed each year for
Poesie Sonore as part of the larger several week-long Festival de Geneve in late
August / early September.
This year's festival was not strictly about sound poetry since it was loosely
structured around Gomringer and concrete poetry, which still seems to be not
very well known in French-speaking Europe. Last year's festival ('94) was a
combination rock/homage to William Burroughs' via phone link, featuring John
Giorno and others. The year before ('93) the theme was musical, with emphasis
on the voice. Paul Dutton, Trevor Wishart, and David Moss performed as well as
Eric and Marc Hurtado (Etant Donnes). Each year there are also talks, some
performance pieces (I did one with Guenter Ruch two years ago using large, 3-D
letters), and usually some contemporary compositions.
For anyone interested, Vincent Barras can be contacted at 48 ch. de Carabot,
CH-1213 Onex-Geneva, Switzerland.
So how is sound poetry doing in Europe? Probably better than in North America,
where a lot of interesting work is doubtless being done, but probably under the
more general rubric of performance. The term sound poetry supposes a relation
to literature that performance doesn't have, but it has never been completely
clear what this distinction accomplishes, except to establish a polemic
vis-a-vis literature. In other words, the question has always been is sound
poetry poetry?
Ward Tietz
rte. de St. Cergue, 48a
CH-1260 Nyon
Switzerland
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:51:26 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Slinger
doorne looses if he hasn't read ketjak.
but
slinger thumbs out of 20th c lit just as ketjak, just as spring et al, kora
in hell. ketjak gets more amazing in its strangeness and isolation as the
years go by (& we're approaching 20. let's have a party when it turns).
Bill Luoma
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:09:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rae Armantrout <RaeA100900@AOL.COM>
Subject: calling Loss
Dear Loss,
I've lost your e mail address and, more importantly, your ground address.
I have something to send you now for EPC. Let me know once more where to
send it.
Rae Armantrout
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:08:58 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bark Odes
[Lansing's work]...>profoundly utilizes its sense of visual shape on
>the page, I'm surprised, comparing these two texts, at how the rounded
>10 point Navarro softens, almost occludes, that element of the poem
>compared with the 10 point Palatino of the earlier book (Navarro's
>letters are not only more rounded, but its lines very thin, its seriphs
>minimalized almost out of existence)...
always glad to see awareness of the visual element of poetry-
on-the-page, which always seems to be to be a factor, even in
poetry that is not as visually oriented as, say, concrete work.
cheers for the appreciation of a well-designed book!
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:52:10 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: working bibliography
Found this in the outgoing mailbox, must've meant to add a few more. Any
case, compliments to both these listers--
Susan Schultz (ed.)-- _The Tribe of John: Ashbery and Contemporary Poetry_ U.
Alabama Press. Contributors include Charles Altieri, Charels Bernstein,
George Bradley, Bonnie Costello, John Ernest, John Gery, John Koethe, James
McCorkle, Stephen Paul Miller, Fred Moramarco, Jonathan Morse, Donald Revell,
Andrew Ross, and John Shoptaw. $28.95 pb.
A.L. Nielsen's two U. Georgia books, _Writing Between the Lines: Race &
Intertextuality_ ($45 hc) and _Reading Race: White American Poets and the
Racial Discourse in the Twentieth Century_ ($12.95 pb).
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 00:06:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Can You Hear, Bird
I wholeheartedly believe the new Ashbery, _Can You Hear, Bird_ is durn
terrific-- curious what others think. "Do not go into Hawaii./ Even the price
tags are afraid." That the beginning of a poem called "Gladys Palmer." Seems
his styles have become even smoother, even more permeable, while remaining
reflexive, entertaining.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:30:18 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: SPT newletter reviews
I know this isn't the best time to post this since many of you are on your
winter break, but Small Press Traffic is going to be featuring Chax Press
and Talisman House in its next newsletter. Anyone who is interested in
doing *very brief* reviews (200-300 words) of any of the books published by
these presses, please contact me.
A list of the books follows.
Thanks.
Dodie Bellamy
CHAX PRESS
>Kathleen Fraser, When New Time Folds Up
>Norman Fischer, Precisely the Point Being Made
>Nathaniel Tarn, Caja del Rio
>Rosmarie Waldrop, Fan Poem for Deshika
>Nathaniel Mackey, Outlantish
>Ron Silliman, Demo to Ink
>Beverly Dahlen, A Reading 8 =F1 10
>Gil Ott, Wheel
>Karen Mac Cormack, Quirks & Quillets
>Sheila Murphy, Teth
>bp Nichol, Art Facts: A Book of Contexts
>Larry Evers & Felipe S. Molina, Coyote Songs
>Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Mizu
>Charles Alexander, Hopeful Buildings
>Lyn Hejinian & Kit Robinson, Individuals
>Eli Goldblatt, Sessions
>John Randolph Hall, Zootaxy
>Jackson Mac Low, French Sonnets
TALISMAN HOUSE
Dodie Bellamy/Sam D'Allesandro, Real
William Bronk, The Mild Day
William Bronk, Our Selves
William Bronk, Manifest; And Furthermore
Joseph Donahue, World Well Broken
Edward Foster, ed., Postmodern Poetry
Mark Jacobs, A Cast of Spaniards
Stephen Jonas, Selected Poems
Gerrit Lansing, Heavenly Tree/ Soluble Forest
Alice Notley, Selected Poems
Simon Pettet, Selected Poems
Jack Spicer, The Tower of Babel
Gustaf Sobin, By the Bias of Sound
Schwartz, Donahue, and Foster, eds., Primary Trouble: An Anthology of
Contemporary American Poetry
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:45:28 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "William M. Northcutt" <William.Northcutt@UNI-BAYREUTH.DE>
Subject: Re: Slinger
I suppose since I know nothing about Dorn outside of his early work, Slinger
remains enjoyable to me. It may be that it's dated, but as I read it the
last time, I thought about how easy it would be to replace Howard Hughes
with Rupert Murdock or Ted "Can I Get a Witness" Turner--that is, whatever
Dorn thinks, believes now doesn't change what is radical in Slinger. And as
for Pound, there has been a lot of work over the last decades pointing out
what a fascist he was--true, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a
lot of kicking against the pricks in the early Cantos.
My duck Helen Vendler likes especially to roll big doobs while reading
Cantos XIV, XV and XXVII
Chicken House Willie
------------------------------------------------------------
William Northcutt
Englische Literaturwissenschaft
Universitaet Bayreuth
95440 Bayreuth
Germany
william.northcutt@uni-bayreuth.de
fax:(921)553641
-----------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 05:16:10 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Landers <landers@VIVANET.COM>
Subject: Re: Slinger
Mon, 18 Dec 1995 Ron Silliman wrote:
>
>William Northcutt asks a good question:
>>
>>And why isn't Slinger funny anymore?
>
[snip]
>
>...I had an almost allergic negative reaction, simply (I suspect)
>because it so willfully (gleefully) abandoned many of the presumptions
>of projective verse, ...
[snip]
>
>Later I would realize all the ways in which what Dorn did showed the
>limitations in projective verse, ...
In my own pursuit of the Black Mountain poets, I tried out Dorn because
he was the recipient of the Projective Verse letter. It was obvious, however,
that he never did get the point.
[snip
>
>But as the books came forward, or didn't, it also became clear that
>this comic book mode of scribing the end of philosophy was, as a
>narrative project (and as a project it saw itself as narrative in very
>profound ways), ultimately doomed. As a work, the book dissolves....
Because, of course, philosophy is alive and well in the works of William
Bronk, yourself, Charles Stein, etc. I don't want to continue the list or
someone may think it's my (gasp!) top ten list. I'm glad the people who call
themselves philosophers have abandoned the field to us. It was ours in the
first place, and they never managed to steal it, even in Goethe's day.
>
>Since then of course, I've been saddened at the little squiblets of
>notebook that have come forth as the last quarter century's worth of
>work by Dorn, and appalled at the Babbitry of some of his editorial
>commitments and comments, including (tho not limited to) publishing
>Clark's homophobic AIDs stuff. I suppose it don't help that he says in
>an interview somewhere that he doesn't need to read the language poets
>because Tom Clark tells him all he needs to know (!)
My own objection to that last-named person is the similarity of his name
to the (how else to say it) *wonderful* Thomas A. Clark. I asked Dorn about
the AIDS nonsense (in which he and Tom Clark propose infecting certain people
with AIDS) and he got angry, denied writing it, and shouted, "It was just a
joke!" Years later, I still have trouble with Slinger. I can't see his
statements as other than pompous. And as for the rest? Maybe some fan of
Ed Dorn should come to his defense. It does nothing for me.
Is anything really a joke when no one but the teller is laughing?
Pete Landers
landers@vivanet.com
another p.s. for Dick: So foew&... cost more than $2.50 each to make, eh?
You had me going. Thanks for the advice, though. I've already decided that all
capital invested must be given up for lost (a stance my partner doesn't
appreciate.) BTW, that choreographer I mentioned carries that book around
in her backpack. Will she ever return it?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:49:08 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: desire / and the 39 steps
Comments: cc: Edward Foster <EFOSTER@vaxa.stevens-tech.edu>
fell cycles, jack the boy dull from his empty net an imitation coin. on
realigning scented letters claim this waxing scheme re-plateaud saccarine.
each purpose as tattooed between our breathing skins a frosting pain her
energising spleen. from plunge.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 03:51:24 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Thomas A. Clark
Pete Landers brings up a good point, the unfortunate coincidence of
names between a certain grumpy westcoast bookreviewer and
pseudobiographer (my fave is not the Olson bio, which shows curiously
little interest in the poetry, but the "as-told-to" autobio of Mark
'The Bird' Fydrich some years back--say, how come the Baseball
Encyclopedia doesn't include bibliographies for each player?) and that
tremendous British poet, Thomas A. Clark, someone who has always struck
me as not nearly published nor distributed widely enough.
Four of the seven books of his I own are too small to be perfect bound,
one -- a beautiful sequence called Cries of the Poor -- appears simply
to have been typed and stapled.
Examples:
From _The *Pocket* Glade Dictionary_
Bird
A small feathered verterbrate. The fore limbs are modified into wings
fitted for flight. It has a four-chambered heart which inspires it to
sallies of caprice and volatility.
Deer
A type of after-image caused by spots of light penetrating the dense
foliage of the wood. The illusion of an insubstantial presence
occasioned by a breath of wind among the grasses.
Flower
The best of anything. A figure of speech. An ornament of style.
(NB. The above poems are printed as "centered" prose paragraphs, one to
a page)
From _Cries of the Poor_
A young female child calling at a house in London, selling matches.
*
A female street-seller, somewhere in London, with matches and save-alls
in her hands and a large basket of stock on her right arm.
*
A well known elderly lady, wearing a much-patched coat,with a large
basket of matches on her left arm and a staff in her right hand.
*
A London street-seller, in an extremely ragged costume, holding bundles
of matches fanned out in a manner devised by himself.
*
A poor woman who has for years been subject to the misfortune of having
only one leg, one eye, and one toe.
*
A man selling matches at the front at Brighton.
(NB: again, the above printed one to a page in my edition)
I only met Thomas A. Clark once, when he was honeymooning in the States
in '73. A modest, brilliant young man.
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:49:46 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Slinger
In-Reply-To: <9512190845.AA07268@btr0x1.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> from "William M.
Northcutt" at Dec 19, 95 09:45:28 am
> And as
> for Pound, there has been a lot of work over the last decades pointing out
> what a fascist he was--true, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a
> lot of kicking against the pricks in the early Cantos.
>
> Chicken House Willie
>
Too true. And for those of us who have come to realize that the evil
is not all "out there", the Pisan Cantos remain among the most
terrific and moving poetry of the mid-century.
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:31:41 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Slinger
In-Reply-To: <v01530501acfc36f8cff5@[204.176.82.215]> from "Landers" at Dec
19, 95 05:16:10 am
> Years later, I still have trouble with Slinger. I can't see his
> statements as other than pompous. And as for the rest? Maybe some fan of
> Ed Dorn should come to his defense. It does nothing for me.
>
> Is anything really a joke when no one but the teller is laughing?
If Dorn chose to play post-Modern Pope to Olson's post-Modern Milton,
I say more power to him. Part of the problem is no one reads Pope these
days, or Milton, so who's going to measure that achievment? As for
Dorn's "squibs", _Abhorrences_ is among the most brilliant political
poetry in the satirical tradition produced in the depths of the current
Political Reaction.
Free Market Chinoiserie
There will never be enough BMWs
for the stated Billion, there will never
even be enough paper towel
or gas barbeques or ever enough ribs
or sauce for those short ribs. There will never
be enough coupons to clip or scissors
to clip them with--and there will never be
enough accountants to count it all
or paper to keep the accounts on
or discs to store the accounts
for which there will never be entries enough.
Someone should tell them.
Why is everyone so anxious to bind up the world with their unforgiving
moralistic judgements (that's NOT funny and you're going to poet's
hell for your bad taste), masquerading plain old bad blood behind a
facade of aesthetic and political theory?
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:58:13 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Thomas A. Clark
Just a further note of support for the work of Thomas A. Clark. Madder Lake,
published in 1981 by Coach House, is particularly recommended. I had the
privelege of printing a letterpress broadside of a poem of his once, for a
reading at Woodland Pattern in Milwaukee.
from A Meadow Voyage, by Thomas A. Clark
(from Madder Lake)
weighed anchor
under the sun
our boat
painted green with
a border of blue
the art of
navigation
a feather
in mid-air
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:57:31 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: brief anthology of wrung-doings
(e-Rengan Newsletter from Jorge Guitart, Tom Bell, Gabrille Welford, cris
cheek, Jordan Davis, Maria Damon, Lisa Samuels, Chris Scheil, Sheila E
Murphy and Abilnasarowe Histomarijo)
Subject: rain of head, training of negligence
unexpectedness behind roaring image
voices of souvenirs and trains
the exterior image clap
unremitted, "the man"
shattered his messy walls
speech laws against trance
leafing my kind of decay
against the zoning pleasure
the miracle of a points
liberated fragments of loneliness
blots leaving afterglows of grace
a big firm, hung of Santa head
extolling desperation in the well
dead books vertical trestles singing
subject - X-Attachments & the unexpectedness of voices and the steady
rain of mink blood behind the exterior of the dance of the devils on the
head of a pin by the roaring sound of trains and the hamboned clap driven
training of souvenirs becomes an image of a blank foot tossed in the isles
of negligence Okay ?
the unremitted pleasure of decay against the walls of a willingness
to please my-kind-of-plastered town "scared" zoning laws into the miracle
of "the man" by his messy points leafing a salad speech of trance filming
his chattered type of diffidence when dried ?
the device of head trestles with wool-blurs of grace to the well pit
the tip of her tongue hung in afterglows of desperation wineing the Santa
of loneliness on the lip of leaving the firm by extolling the
ffffffffffffffragments of blots render books a bit vertical singing old
scores of the liberated dead
rough ?
rain of head, training
roaring image
trains
unremitted
speech laws against trance
decay
pleasure
of loneliness
leaving
dead books singing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:36:28 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Keith Tuma <KWTUMA@MIAMIU.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: midwinter
Who said the errors of criticism are the errors of omission? Who cares?
Anyway, it's almost Midwinter Day, which I hereby re-name Bernadette's Day:
There are some things we cannot say!
No, I can't say that!
The awful presence of the obvious,
abdicated time,
Never relents in its demand to speak all at once
Because but for that there's the chance
The rest of what's begun to be lost might be lost
Like putting all one's bushels in an apple forever. . .
--Bernadette Mayer, 1982
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:56:01 -0600
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: midwinter
keith, thanx for reminding me of that... i think i'll pull bmayer's book
off the shelf and reread my favorite section, part three...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:44:56 CST6CDT
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <hlazer@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: oops
Poetics Group--
Inadvertently, I sent a message to the whole group instead of privately
to Aldon Nielsen. My apologies. The information, concerning George
Hartley's tenure case, though, may be helpful to others of you
expressing an interest in the case. My apologies and embarrassment,
since I meant to send it to Aldon as requested....
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:33:35 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: _Transbluesency_
In-Reply-To: <199512190519.AAA29408@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Rushing this morning, so no time to do the kind of close comparison
between the old Baraka _Selected_ and the new, as Ron asked,,,, but here
are some preliminary points:
--re: recent discussions, the price of the old, printed on the cover, was
only $5.95 --
--more significantly, the new has NO POEMS AT ALL from _Spirit Reach_,
which strikes me and several others as odd --
--new vol. has some of the new stuff, including "Heathens," which is
great, and stuff from _Whys_ -- on the latter, the version of the text in
_Transbluesency_ is not identitical to the version published
simultaneously by Third World Press--
The politics of all this would be an interesting study -- why was the old
Morrow allowed to go out of print? The new vol. is important also
because the Baraka Reader, despite its many merits, is short on the
poetry-- the new intro. is also odd, but folks can discover that for
themselves --
The Morrow _Selected Prose_ has materials in it, including a chapter from
the never published second novel, that make it worth finding -- again,,,,
why is this out of print?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:15:16 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Slinger
Thanks to Michael Boughn for pointing out that there are, even recently,
some flashes of brilliance in Dorn's work, and some very sharp movements of
language, even if he doesn't read "language" work, and despite the truth of
what Ron Silliman says about the general trajectory of his poetic career. I
like this note, from Captain Jack's Chaps or Houston/MLA, which is
post-Slinger, but pre-Abhorrences --
A Piece of Advice:
It is Far Better to Copter in,
but Even That Way You Can Lose a Blade
In Hughestown, it is good
to be inside, in Hughestown
it is better to look *out on*
than to look *into.*
In Hughestown they have constructed
ramps, the transmundane conduits
of executive perfumery.
But this is not climate control
as in St. Paul.
These elongated bunkers
protect the prominaders
from the anger of the pomaders
crowded around the Wig Wam
pitched in the concrete universe below
where identities are exchanged
in a wink
for exaggeration's sake.
And I think Michael's right, that we don't read Pope much anymore, and that
"comic" is a difficult proposition when attached to Slinger or to Dorn in
general. "Satire" might come closer, although in some ways this pastiche
mixes modes and has lots of moments of rather elegant pronouncements, a la
Olson, which, granted, some might find comic as well.
charles alexander
>> Years later, I still have trouble with Slinger. I can't see his
>> statements as other than pompous. And as for the rest? Maybe some fan of
>> Ed Dorn should come to his defense. It does nothing for me.
>>
>> Is anything really a joke when no one but the teller is laughing?
>
>If Dorn chose to play post-Modern Pope to Olson's post-Modern Milton,
>I say more power to him. Part of the problem is no one reads Pope these
>days, or Milton, so who's going to measure that achievment? As for
>Dorn's "squibs", _Abhorrences_ is among the most brilliant political
>poetry in the satirical tradition produced in the depths of the current
>Political Reaction.
>
> Free Market Chinoiserie
>
> There will never be enough BMWs
> for the stated Billion, there will never
> even be enough paper towel
> or gas barbeques or ever enough ribs
> or sauce for those short ribs. There will never
> be enough coupons to clip or scissors
> to clip them with--and there will never be
> enough accountants to count it all
> or paper to keep the accounts on
> or discs to store the accounts
> for which there will never be entries enough.
> Someone should tell them.
>
>Why is everyone so anxious to bind up the world with their unforgiving
>moralistic judgements (that's NOT funny and you're going to poet's
>hell for your bad taste), masquerading plain old bad blood behind a
>facade of aesthetic and political theory?
>
>Mike
>mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:48:55 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Steven Howard Shoemaker <ss6r@FERMI.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: Chicago gatherings
Aldon wrote:
"Maybe someone who knows the particulars of George's situation at Ohio
State could quietly fill in those of us who show up at the Sun & Moon or
Millenium gatherings in Chicago next week??? and then we could talk
about how we might be of help ?"
Can somebody re-post the info on these gatherings, or back-channel to me?
Thanks,
steve
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:07:42 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Eryque Gleason <gleaeri@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: midwinter
my concept of time is so screwey right now that i hadn't realized i'd
picked the perfect time of year to read it. part six tonight....
love,
eryque
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:47:18 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Twentieth-Century Lit. Conference
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
If anyone's interested in chairing a panel at this year's Twentieth-Century
Lit. Conference, Feb. 22-24, 1995, please contact Harriette Seiler, the
Conference Director, at hmseil01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu. This year's
speakers/readers include Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Barrett Watten, Stephen
Wright, and Michael Weaver.
"For whom is Slinger still funny?" would be another way of asking that
question. I still take great pleasure in Books I (especially) and II. But part
of that pleasure may be a possibly generational pleasure in getting a lot of
the "in" jokes (some of the more arcane rock quotations, for instance). And to
what extent does my pleasure in this particular comic text have an element of
baby boom nostalgia in it too? I'm not sure. I still find Slinger funny; but
the last time I taught it, a lot of my students found it dated (that's what I
mean by "generational pleasure"--their points of popular reference were not
mine).
So does that mean that any text thoroughly and explicitly immersed in "popular
culture," as comic texts often-are, will always-date? Are there particular
kinds of comic poems (not all) that are by definition occasional/ephemeral?
And does that matter? Maria? Anyone? I *know* I'm going to regret bringing
this up, but I'm desperate for some way to continue my avoidance of grading
final papers and doing holiday shopping.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:33:18 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <sschultz@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Can You Hear, Bird
In-Reply-To: <951219000645_58062418@emout04.mail.aol.com>
Here in Hawai'i it's we who are afraid of the price tags!
On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Rod Smith wrote:
> I wholeheartedly believe the new Ashbery, _Can You Hear, Bird_ is durn
> terrific-- curious what others think. "Do not go into Hawaii./ Even the price
> tags are afraid." That the beginning of a poem called "Gladys Palmer." Seems
> his styles have become even smoother, even more permeable, while remaining
> reflexive, entertaining.
>
> --Rod
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:34:46 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wystan Curnow <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: midwinter
Comments: To: KWTUMA@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
Dear Keith,
Thank you for the Mid-Winter clip. Which brings me to ask for
news of Bernadette Mayer. Last list word of her was of her ill health.
Here summer is up. The coastline is red with pohutukawa
blossom. Pakistan is here, and the West Indies are in Australia. We hear
how deep poetics is in Buffalo snow and give an involuntary shiver
(brrrrr!)
Seasons greetings
Wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:45:05 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: More Slinger
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%95121915461401@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> from "Alan Golding"
at Dec 19, 95 03:47:18 pm
> So does that mean that any text thoroughly and explicitly immersed in "popular
> culture," as comic texts often-are, will always-date? Are there particular
> kinds of comic poems (not all) that are by definition occasional/ephemeral?
> And does that matter? Maria? Anyone? I *know* I'm going to regret bringing
> this up, but I'm desperate for some way to continue my avoidance of grading
> final papers and doing holiday shopping.
If you read Slinger as a mock-epic, in the tradition of, say, Dryden's
Mac Flecnoe or Pope's Rape of the Lock, then the references to popular
culture become significant in any number of ways. They meet the epic's
demand for a connection to the gods, and for a thick layer of
reference, among other things. Milton, working with Christian
figures, plays with the Latin and Greek gods. Pope, playing with Milton,
turns them amusingly into Sylphs, figures from Rosicrucian
pseudo-mythology, then trendy in Tory social circles. Dorn is
just making the translation, and he does it brilliantly, as
brilliantly as Pope, anyway, I think.
Slinger is not, to my understanding, a comic poem. It's a Juvenalian
satire in the mode of the mock-heroic.
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 18:52:29 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: midwinter the function of readings
Bernadette Mayer was at the Mark Wallace/Laynie Browne reading at the Ear
last Saturday sitting right up front (that is, in the very back). From
where I was sitting (at the bar, blocking Charles Bernstein's view) she
seemed to be having a good time.
Love,
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 20:23:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Pound as Listserv
Oh, Pound was fantastic. I mean because of Pound, I was in touch with
Creely, I was in touch with Olson, I was in touch with Cid Corman. None of
us knew each other and we were all writing each other letters, and all this
comes through that little center down there in St. Elizabeth's mental
hospital in Washington, DC. You know, "Write Creeley, chicken farmer up in
New Hampshire . . ."
--Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:06:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Can You Hear, Bird
Dear Rod and Susan--
Having been a fan of Ashbery's (if not perhaps a TRIBE of John) for a long
time but being disappointed with his previous two books---HOTEL L and
AND THE STARS WERE SHINING--I have told myself that I will not buy the
new book (at least until it comes out into paperback), but I am willing
to be convinced otherwise---So, perhaps you could quote in full this
poem GLADYS PALMER because I am curious what the price tags are afraid of,
or if one has to BE a price tag to be afraid, and that therefore HAwaii
is a haven away from COMMODITY and FEAR in this poem. Or maybe the price
tags that are afraid LIVE in Hawaii--unlike in the unexotic mainland
where respectable pricetags would never show their fear--much less
reveal their 10 foot cockroaches crawling out of lava.....chris s.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 03:37:54 -0800
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From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Wanna date?
Working through the K section of The Alphabet, which is the "next
paragraph" of Ketjak (the last one having been completed 21 years ago),
I've been painfully, tho perversely gleefully, aware of just how much
any level of referentiality to that shared world of media culture in
particular is bound forever in such contexts, like puka shell necklaces
for men or Nehru jackets (or Nehru himself for that matter).
But the idea that work should *not* date seems problematic to me. That
is precisely how the cultural dominant exercises its control over which
works should "last" and which "wither and die." Rather, one ought to
read them as artifacts.
I totally distrust the "timeless." My obsolete rose is not Williams'
let alone that of the Greeks.
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 03:45:36 -0800
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From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Pope Charles, etc.
I've always thought of Charles Bernstein as the Alexander Pope of our
time, and think of this as a positive comment.
In addition to Pope's foregrounding of satire as a mode for major
poetry, I think that a case can also be made for Pope as the first true
prose poet in English (ahead, say, of Blake, let alone Tagore). His use
of language is so distinctly SYNtactic, rather than hypotactic, that he
(Pope, not Charles) seems the direct ancestor of Ashbery. (OK, maybe
Charles is the ancestor of Ashes also.)
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:01:28 -0500
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From: Maria Damon <MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Kink of Comedy
if i were you i'd teach lenny bruce, lenny bruce and more lenny bruce.
also, Studies in American Humor or someting like that has a special issue on
humor in american poetry --1992 or something. it's not an especially
distinguished mag, but yours truly has a small article on jack spicer's
"subaltern wit" therein.
md
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:10:54 -0500
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From: Patrick Phillips <Patrick_Phillips@BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wanna date?
Seems too that there is the obverse - that we also come to expect a
constant overturn, that we want to know flowers by their edges. Last
weekend sitting in the Waldrop's house with a crew of youngish poets -
Jennifer Moxley, Gale Nelson, Mark McMorris, and youngish critics - Steve
Evans - talking about what happens to they who "stabilize" or hone their
work (Michael Palmer was brought up) as opposed to they who try to break
with their most recent move (Bataille came up on this side,though just in
passing - we here in Prov. don't necessarily fill snowy nights with talk of
B. ).
What's interesting now is that I cannot think of a single poet who I would
say continually disrupted the tack of their work. Perhaps this is because
of another effect of "the cultural dominant" as it is played in time. That
each poet (and this came up in the midst of scotch, wine and smokes) even
in disruption, plays out a continuity - familiar patterns of discontinuity.
This perhaps may be how in one respect the most experimental become dated -
moving from an inherent breakage in all respects (Stein) to a determining
factor in the history of such breakages (Stein).
By the way, Rosmarie serves up a mean King's Curry.
on the 20th Ron Silliman wrote --
>
>But the idea that work should *not* date seems problematic to me. That
>is precisely how the cultural dominant exercises its control over which
>works should "last" and which "wither and die." Rather, one ought to
>read them as artifacts.
>
>I totally distrust the "timeless." My obsolete rose is not Williams'
>let alone that of the Greeks.
>
>Ron Silliman
>rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:27:40 -0500
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From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Kink of Comedy
well, since maria's bringing up people like LENNY BRUCE---
(to which one can also add certain George Carlin and Richard Pryor--
ah the good old days when stand-up was politically "left"!---
even Woody Allen's Stand up Comic album---
I like to tell my students that the reason Andrew Dice Clay never
gets arrested for obscenity while Lenny did is because obscenity in
the service of right-wing upper class interests is OKAY---
see Howard Stern (who I still blame for PAtaki's election, btw)---
who is about as funny as Gerald Stern (i.e,. NOT VERY)---
so, also let's bring up BOB DYLAN's 115th DREAM for instance too
as classic comedy---
as "timeless" comedy (smile ron smile)
and maybe Jeff Hansen or someone could help me start up a collection
so we can BUY A POWDERED ALEX POPE STYLE WHIG FOR MR> BERNY....
And what ever happened to the great and noble profession of
FOOLES----of FOOLES UPON FOOLES (the other book written by
the man who wrote A NEST OF NINNIES---the ancestor of ashes & sky
& monty python)
-----here's hoping the eagle picks YOUR eye too.cs.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:09:35 -0500
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From: Libbie Rifkin <lr22@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Ted Berrigan
I'm beginning work on a dissertation chapter on Ted Berrigan and Frank
O'Hara and wondering if anyone out there is currently working on
Berrigan. Beyond the "Nice to See You" homage collection, a great short
piece by
Barrett Watten and an article by Joel Lewis, I haven't found much writing
on Berrigan's poetry. "Nice to See You" is composed mostly of memoirs
(Charles Berstein's "Writing Against the Body" is a notable exception). The
fact that memoir is still the dominant mode of commentary on these two
poets, and perhaps the "New York School" in general, seems relevant in
itself. But what about the poetry?
Has Berrigan already been discussed in this forum? I'm new to the list and
would like to hear what people are doing.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:32:20 -0600
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From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Thomas A. Clark
Thomas A. Clark's work deserves support. His Tormentil and Bleached Bones
published by Polygn Press in 1993 is lovely work and is probably still
available from SPD. Among his other books which may also still be
available, I would highly recommend Some Particualrs (Jargon Press, 1971),
Ways Through Bracken (Jargon Press) and Vagrant Definitions (Membrane
Press). His other books are good as well, but I suspect they can no longer
be found. The broadside that Charles Alexander printed for Clark's Woodland
Pattern reading is beautifully printed and its design is eloquent advocacy
for Clark's writing.
Jonathan Brannen
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:46:08 -0500
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From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: anachronism
Dear Chris and others:
Sorry it's taking me so long to respond--no offense intended, I'm
just on e-mail about once a week these days.
I'm by no means an expert on the history of "conscious
anachronism" in avant garde practice, so I'd love someone to fill this
in, but certainly a main proponent of such a possibility was Robert
Duncan. I remember transcribing a tape of a Duncan lecture for Robert
Bertholf (don't think it ever appeared in print, but I could be wrong) in
which Duncan talks about the "thee" and "thou" in his poems, how they are
written off as the heights of pretension by some, but that they actually
are not that far back in the past, and offer variations on possible
intimate addresses that our own "contemporary" language has lost--along,
of course, with the religious implications. So a "conscious anachronism"
would be pointing out that the present does not represent some clear
linear movement forward, but is as much a forgetting of past potential as
it is any realizing of the potential of the past. And I think I see some
poets like Pam Rehm, Liz Willis, and some others talking about that
process of forgetting and trying to make us remember what's hovering
around in there... Of course, anyone who knows my poetry probably knows
that this is not a thing I'm doing myself, but I think some pretty
intersting things are going on with it.
It's funny, and totally unsurprising by the way, that the most questions
I've had about my article have to do with the short characterizations of
emerging avant garde writers that I list near the end of that piece. I
tried to suggest, of course, that such characterizations are by
definition shorthand, and can't do full justice to the work in question.
In any case, if there's anybody out there who I mentioned in a way that
to them seems not quite to fit, I'd be interested in hearing from you
about how, in such a short mention, to refer to your work more accurately...
mark wallace
P.S. I'll be able to respond in about another week...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:52:36 -0500
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From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Thomas A. Clark
I wanted to second Charles Alexander's comment:
<<Just a further note of support for the work of Thomas A. Clark. Madder
Lake,
published in 1981 by Coach House, is particularly recommended. >>
Great stuff, close focus on the natural world & a precise ear.
It's the only book of Clark's I own, "Seen through the press by BP Nichol"
with each poem printed recto only. Who cd afford that today?
Anyone know if he's still writing or publishing today?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 19:15:06 -0500
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From: Landers <landers@VIVANET.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 18 Dec 1995 to 19 Dec 1995
Michael Boughn writes: (in response to me)
>Why is everyone so anxious to bind up the world with their unforgiving
>moralistic judgements (that's NOT funny and you're going to poet's
>hell for your bad taste), masquerading plain old bad blood behind a
>facade of aesthetic and political theory?
Michael,
That's an important question that I certainly have put to myself: does
bad blood taint my appreciation of good poetry? No. If that were the
case, how could I read Eshelman? And I have to admit, that guy's one
of the best, even if ... (but let's not go that way.)
I don't see Dorn as the Pope to Olson's Milton at all. He's just a
famous student of Charles Olson, a poet, his preferred style is closer
to Creeley, but not as good, IMO. Why continue the anachronistic
parallels? Pound took back what he said to Beckett.
As to classics: Juvenal *does* give me the same problems in humor. I'm
sure he's only read by Latin scholars for his rhetoric. There's not
much poetry or humor there.
Pete Landers
landers@vivanet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 21:17:02 -0500
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From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Ted Berrigan
Do you know Ron Padgett's book "Ted" or "Late Returns" by Tom Clark? (oops,
underlines for quotes there) Ted's a curious memoir. Eccentric bibliography
and cover shot.
Jordan Davis
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 21:22:35 -0500
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From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 18 Dec 1995 to 19 Dec 1995
Peter Landers---
What DID Pound say to Beckett....
just curious (and where is this? In Kenner, who's written about both?)
chris stroffolino
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 21:59:50 -0500
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From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wanna date?
Dear Pat Phillips'--
Great post....You seem to tie several threads together here: the question
of anachronism (should a poet break with what s/he perceives to be a
CULTURAL past) as well of individual style (should a poet break with
what s/he perceives to be a personal HABIT--which Beckett calls "the
great deadener" or something). Of course, it's not just a question of
BREAKING with the CULTURAL past as such, for this may be something not
available to certain poets in the first place. Poets who think it
STARTED with Bernstein, for instance (as an ex-Providence poet told me
recently, and for the sake of argument we may assume such "beings"
exist). The individual style question is more interesting to me right
now. We're told of POUND's phases, of Yeats', of Stein's, and the legiti-
macy granted to studies of poets (and visual artists)' phases has been
spoken about by Richard Schiff in ways that could be expanded on....
There is something provocative in your (seeming) claim that such PHASES
are not engaged in as much today. Certainly, I don't recognize much
difference between early Bruce Andrews and more recent, for instance--
and, value judgments aside, I wonder if STYLISTIC CONSISTENCY is held
up as a value by the ART MARKET more than RESTLESS EXPERIMENTATION is.
It seems an open question, and one perhaps beyond intent. For it seems
that a poet may very much be trying to make a radical break with his
or her own past but nonetheless still write work that is Moxleyesque
or Phillipsesque whatever, in the eyes of others. And the converse
and/or obverse may be true. One may be trying to be consistent and end
up changing despite oneself. Of course, one may strife for consistency
and be applauded for "the grace to live as variously as possible" so
the question of value judgment and reception and all that gets potentially
entangled in these questions. Yet, the point you make about DISRUPTION
as in some ways the norm is tricky. For if we assume that Stein's THREE
LIVES and STANZAS IN MEDITATIONS are made more similar to each other
if read in the light of the writer's urge to disrupt her own investment
in stylistic habits---if it becomes A HABIT TO BREAK HABITS (i'm quoting
one of my poems here, btw)--as it SEEMS you're arguing, nonetheless this
is still a different kind of habit than the one you recognize in Palmeri.
But perhaps that's because I'm interested in dweeling on differences
against a backdrop of similarity (just as at other times one may want
to show the similarities between L poets and Romantics, in part because
such similarities are denied). Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 00:44:16 -0500
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From: Patrick Phillips <Patrick_Phillips@BROWN.EDU>
Subject: cheap date (yesterday)
Chris, I'm too cheap a date for you... Just to respond, I think that the
breakages and disruptions aren't from the cultural past as much, but of it.
That one may disrupt the context of a social history and still be very much
in it - providing contour... and too the phase thing is interesting -
Vallejo's phases, Holderlin's phases, Miles Davis's phases, Jimmy Hoffa's
phases. Matisse came up in our conversation as one with a long wave length
- some people perform as moons pocked slowly - by chronotrope (like
Matisse, in another time) and some more fleeting - by heliotrope (that 12
year old boy shot in a Palisades Parkway store yesterday).
Pat
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 01:53:50 -0500
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From: Landers <landers@VIVANET.COM>
Subject: Pound/Joyce anecdote
Chris Stroffolino asked:
> What DID Pound say to Beckett....
> just curious (and where is this? In Kenner, who's written about both?)
I think I heard this from an Irish actor, so it could be blarney... I can't
remember his name. Can anyone else validate this anecdote?
Pound went to visit Joyce and there were several other young men there
fawning over him. Pound had no use for sycophancy, so he walked up to one
of the fellas and said, "I suppose you're writing the next Divine Comedy?"
Many years later Pound saw "Waiting for Godot" and after the show went
backstage to meet this amazing playwright. Beckett reminded him of the
harsh quip and Pound apologized.
The point, for me, is: Joyce isn't the tw.c. Homer, Pound isn't the tw.c.
Dante, CO's not Milton. This kind of anachonistic parallelism only serves
to lessen the individual's worth. I don't think Joyce sought the comparison
between himself and Homer so much as between Bloom and Odyseus.
Pete Landers
landers@vivanet.com
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:58:12 -1000
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: T/Q: Contemporary Poetry (fwd)
This request came through TAMLIT, and I thought someones on this list
might want to suggest somethings. I asked the sender, and he/she's
interestd in hearing from you. Gab.
Sender: Parzival <gad@ksu.ksu.edu>
Subject: Contemporary Poetry Suggestions?
Hello all--
A professor here at Kansas State has asked me to help him compile a list
of about thirty contemporary (publishing during last 20 years) poets for
a class he is teaching this spring. While giving some thought to my
suggestions, I thought it might be interesting to get some input from the
rest of you on the list. If you were going to suggest 5 poets, who would
they be? Which collection?
My apologies to anyone who feels this question is a little to akin to
those found in various Usenet groups, but I am interested in what folks
from other parts of the country are reading/valuing/teaching in contemporary
poetry. I trust that if Randy feels this request is too superficial he
will prevent it from being passed along to the rest of the group. The
class, ENGL 340, is an undergraduate course, simply titled "Poetry."
I look forward to hearing your input and suggestions, assuming you see
this query. Thanks a bunch.
Greg Dyer
+------ Greg Dyer ** gad@ksu.ksu.edu ** http://www.ksu.edu/~gad ------+
| |
| "This is the time of tension between dying and birth |
| The place of solitude where three dreams cross |
| Between blue rocks" |
| |
+-------------------- T.S. Eliot ** "Ash-Wednesday ---------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 03:42:56 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Thomas A Clark
<<>with each poem printed recto only. Who cd afford that today?
at that time, Coach House was both a publisher and a printshop
(collective, i think); so many of the books of that era, clark's
& b.p.'s among, were able to do some fairly extravegant productions.
lbd>>
yes, & paper was a whole lot cheaper!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:02:26 +0000
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: SPT newletter reviews
Can't imagine that you'd be into this but I am keen to review from this
pond out perspective.I could e-copy to speed process of incorporating
response.
IF you like that idea, my preferences would be for any (or all , or
combinations) of the following:
Nathaniel Mackey, Outlantish
Ron Silliman, Demo to Ink
Karen Mac Cormack, Quirks & Quillets
bp Nichol, Art Facts: A Book of Contexts
Jackson Mac Low, French Sonnets
Charles Alexander, Hopeful Buildings
Gerrit Lansing, Heavenly Tree/ Soluble Forest
Dodie Bellamy/Sam D'Allesandro, Real
Edward Foster, ed., Postmodern Poetry
Jack Spicer, The Tower of Babel
twould be my greatest pleasure to delve
love and love to you
cris
(out of town 'til just after new year - welsh mountains - actually
Devil's Bridge and some readings in Hereford / Norwich) - hope you're all
/ both well
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:35:44 GMT0BST
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From: Peter Larkin <LYAAZ@LIBRIS.LIB.WARWICK.AC.UK>
Organization: UNIVERSITY OF WARWICK LIBRARY
Subject: Thomas A Clark
Having been indulging in universal deletion recently, I awake to
find some attention being paid to Thomas A Clark. I don't know why,
but think it's the right idea. Prest Roots has one of his titles
currently available: Dwellings & Habitations, illustrated by Kate
Whiteford (1993 1 871237106).stlg6.00 plus postage outside UK. If you can
pay by stlg bank order, orders can be sent to me direct on email. If
not, Paul Green will deal with dollar orders.
I hope to call in on Tom tomorrow, by the way, so can tell him of
his new electronic fame.
PeterPeter Larkin Philosophy & Literature Librarian
University of Warwick Library,Coventry CV4 7AL UK
Tel:01203 524475 Fax: 01203 524211
Email: Lyaaz@Libris.Lib.Warwick.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 19:38:14 +0800
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: Re: Ted Berrigan
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07-CIT.9512201235.A11119-a100000
@travelers.mail.cornell.edu>
Particularly if your chapter will deal with the relation between Berrigan's
and O'Hara's poetry, might I (modestly) recommend the interview with
Berrigan, on O'Hara's poetry, which is included in the Berkson/LeSueur
HOMAGE TO FRANK O'HARA (either as Big Sky 11/12 or republished by
Creative Arts Press in SF). What Berrigan has to say about O'Hara's
poetry in that interview is also illuminating re his own works. There is
a fair amount of technical criticism as well as some "moral" assessment.
In general, you may find interviews with Berrigan (e.g., the Talking in
Tranquility collection) to be most useful. Berrigan loved to talk
about how his poetry was put together. Most reviews of his work, on the
other hand, were negative and/or defensive in their negativism.
(Marjorie Perloff, why haven't you reviewed the Penguin Selected Berrigan
for The New Republic?)
I think of Ted Berrigan as very much a formalist. His core technique of
appropriation and collage is consistent, even when you don't expect it
(for example, he once pointed out that he got the title for "Words For
Love" by taking the titles of Creeley's first two Scribners books, which
were on the desk when he was writing the poem) but he runs its through a
tremendous number of variations and changes. "Who owns words" as he
quoted Tom Clark, in an attempt to appropriate that very phrase.
Also, Berrigan's poetry seems to me very different from O'Hara's, in
method and tone. As personalities or figures in a landscape, there may
be more similarities, although you might as profitably look to
Apollinaire or Pound as the model. Berrigan's poetry, as opposed to his
persona, is not really about personality in the way that O'Hara's is.
I have tried more than once to write about Ted's poetry, never
successfully.
Simon Schuchat
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:26:41 EST
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ken Edwards <100344.2546@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Thomas A Clark
Good to see appreciations of Thomas A Clark on this list. So far as I know, he's
still writing, and running Moschatel Press, the address being
Iverna Cottage
Rockness Hill
Nailsworth
Gloucestershire
UK
should anyone want to get in touch with his latest output. A good introduction
to his work for those who don't know it would be the three-fer anthology _The
Tempers of Hazard_ published by Paladin (a HarperCollins imprint) in 1993. But
HarperCollins have junked their briefly interesting poetry list, so it's
probably already out of print. The disadvantage of this selection is that you
lose the beauty (there's no other word for it) of the original typesetting; the
advantage is you also get chunky selections of Chris Torrance and the
inestimable Barry MacSweeney.
Ken
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:54:35 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: anachronism
>Dear Chris and others:
>
> Sorry it's taking me so long to respond--no offense intended, I'm
>just on e-mail about once a week these days.
>
> I'm by no means an expert on the history of "conscious
>anachronism" in avant garde practice, so I'd love someone to fill this
>in, but certainly a main proponent of such a possibility was Robert
>Duncan. I remember transcribing a tape of a Duncan lecture for Robert
>Bertholf (don't think it ever appeared in print, but I could be wrong) in
>which Duncan talks about the "thee" and "thou" in his poems, how they are
>written off as the heights of pretension by some, but that they actually
>are not that far back in the past, and offer variations on possible
>intimate addresses that our own "contemporary" language has lost--along,
>of course, with the religious implications. So a "conscious anachronism"
>would be pointing out that the present does not represent some clear
>linear movement forward, but is as much a forgetting of past potential as
>it is any realizing of the potential of the past. And I think I see some
>poets like Pam Rehm, Liz Willis, and some others talking about that
>process of forgetting and trying to make us remember what's hovering
>around in there... Of course, anyone who knows my poetry probably knows
>that this is not a thing I'm doing myself, but I think some pretty
>intersting things are going on with it.
>
>It's funny, and totally unsurprising by the way, that the most questions
>I've had about my article have to do with the short characterizations of
>emerging avant garde writers that I list near the end of that piece. I
>tried to suggest, of course, that such characterizations are by
>definition shorthand, and can't do full justice to the work in question.
>In any case, if there's anybody out there who I mentioned in a way that
>to them seems not quite to fit, I'd be interested in hearing from you
>about how, in such a short mention, to refer to your work more accurately...
>
>mark wallace
>
>P.S. I'll be able to respond in about another week...
There are zillions of ways to use anachronisms in innovative wrioting. My
newest piece designed for the electronic transmission uses the three lines
"An Ark bearing the Name of Columbus/Sails through the Skies/Casting a
Shadow on the New World." I set its three lines into three parallel arcs,
and then set the whole into the same black letter type face used in the
Gutenberg Bible. Hopefully using the archaic type evokes the period of
Columbus's cruise and helps drive home the meaning of the piece, that
Columbus's discovery was a mixed blessing at the very least.
Have a good week--
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:34:31 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: More Slinger
In-Reply-To: <v01530500acfe46bda1e7@[204.176.82.165]> from "Landers" at Dec
20, 95 07:15:06 pm
> Michael,
>
> I don't see Dorn as the Pope to Olson's Milton at all. He's just a
> famous student of Charles Olson, a poet, his preferred style is closer
> to Creeley, but not as good, IMO. Why continue the anachronistic
> parallels? Pound took back what he said to Beckett.
>
> As to classics: Juvenal *does* give me the same problems in humor. I'm
> sure he's only read by Latin scholars for his rhetoric. There's not
> much poetry or humor there.
>
> Pete Landers
> landers@vivanet.com
>
Dear Pete Landers:
I wasn't just pulling it out of the air. Those who know Dorn know that
at a time when others were looking to the Romantics (Blake, the lyric)
and to the epic tradition as points of departure for their thinking
about poetry, and the practice of their craft, Dorn turned to the 18th
century and to the satiric tradition. Which makes a lot of sense for
many reasons, not the least of which is what do you write in Olson's
shadow if you don't want to throw out Olson. Maybe you think he
failed, I don't know. We could certainly discuss that. But I do think
any reading of Slinger that ignores its positioning of itself in the
tradition of the mock-heroic is going to miss a lot of interesting
stuff that's going on in the poem.
The problem with dated references in satire is not limited to Slinger.
Try teaching Gulliver's Travels, or Mac Flecknoe, or Pope's Epistles.
Or just try reading them. Satire is necessarily tied to observations
of the current social and political scenes. Without the footnotes, few
of us would know that when Gulliver pisses on the Lilliputian palace
to put out a fire, Swift is making fun of Queen Ann.
I'm sorry to hear that you don't care for Juvenal. But that has little
effect on the fact that he pioneered a specific mode of satiric
address, a specific rhetoric, that carries his name to this day. While
Charles Bernstein is often very funny, I'm not at all sure the Henny
Youngman, NY burlesque school of humor is truly satiric. But I could
be wrong about that.
Best,
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:29:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Kellogg <kellogg@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pound/Joyce anecdote
In-Reply-To: <v01530500acfeafc026f4@[204.176.82.123]>
On Thu, 21 Dec 1995, Landers wrote:
> The point, for me, is: Joyce isn't the tw.c. Homer, Pound isn't the tw.c.
> Dante, CO's not Milton. This kind of anachonistic parallelism only serves
> to lessen the individual's worth. I don't think Joyce sought the comparison
> between himself and Homer so much as between Bloom and Odyseus.
I would argue in fact that such anachronistic paralellism is SPOOFED by
Joyce IN Ulysses, as Stephen and Bloom keep writing themselves into
various plots (Stephen into Hamlet, primarily, Bloom into lots of things,
the soft-porn *Sweets of Sin*). The Bloom/Odysseus parallel is so
overdone and arbitrary that it makes fun of itself constantly.
Cheers,
David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Kellogg Duke University
kellogg@acpub.duke.edu University Writing Program
(919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708
FAX (919) 684-6277
There is some excitement in one corner,
but most of the ghosts are merely shaking their heads.
-- Thomas Kinsella
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:32:37 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <hlazer@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: Wanna date?
Patrick--
You've raised a number of issues that I've thought about for quite
some time. Thanks for the fine post. Chris' response covered much
of what I wanted to say--thanks, Chris. I am quite interested in an
approach to writing that is self-interrupting, that deliberately
avoids the establishment of a style, or signature, or voice. As
you've suggested, Charles Bernstein's work is pertinent, especially
since Charles deliberately designs books (well, his large books) that
do, poem by poem, move by a principle of difference. Even so, as I
argued in that APR piece, there ARE recognizably CB sounds, moves,
interruptions, even layouts. Patrick wrote that he could not think
of a single poet who "continually disrupted the tack of their work"
and that "even in disruption [each poet] plays out a
continuity--familiar patterns of continuity." Perhaps. But even so,
the persistent attempt at self-disruption is significant, I think.
It seems to me that self-disruption has, in part, to do with valuing
writing as a fundamentally heuristic activity (rather than conceiving
of poetry-making as something that tends toward a "perfected"
product, or toward an already known mode of the beautiful). In my
own writing, I have tried to explore such issues--Doublespace, for
example, presents an array of deliberately conflicting modes of
writing; so too does my forthcoming book (Three of Ten) from Chax. I
tend to work by finding a mode of writing and inhabiting that mode
for about a year; then, I do something else. Chris' post raises the
related issue of "phases" of writing, which may become a way to tame
or conceptualize (too neatly?) a less tidy process of writing and
thinking. Yes, Chris, Stein's "urge to disrupt her own investment in
stylistic habits--if it becomes A HABIT TO BREAK HABITS" can become
its own identifying feature. Though I would also argue that the
differences and the particularities of the disruptions (and the
newly chosen paths/modes themselves) are significant, are of value.
In critical writing on L Poetry, there often is the tendency to write
about a community of writers, a set of group-based assumptions. And
Ron and others have argued for the value of writing and thinking
about communities of poets (rather than an H Bloom-like story of
heroic individuals...). But, as the end of Chris' post suggests, it is also
fruitful to think of individual writers, for in fact Ron's work is
distinguishable from Lyn Hejinian's, and hers from Charles', and his
from Susan Howe's, etc. So the individualistic, and even the (ugh)
"personal," remains as a persistent trace? I think about this in
relation to seemingly less personal, or depersonalized modes of
writing. Say, Cage's chance operations. (And, by the way, Joan
Retallack's new collection of Cage-conversations is fantastic--I'm
part way through it--an engaging read, covering many of the topics of
these posts--Joan does a superb job, as an EQUAL in the
conversations.) Cage's example--and I think that many of his poems
are decidedly Cage-identifiable (even if they consist of arrangements
of the writings of others). Perhaps the "personal" or the
"individualistic" might be thought of, as in mathematical terms, as a
limit--as, in a graph, an asymptote. That is, a limit toward which
some kinds of writing moves (but does not achieve). Cage writes
toward a writing free of self, but that self does not finally
disappear in the process....
Or, we could think about heteronymous production--Pessoa, etc. Which
Chris might liken to "phases." Perhaps.
At any rate, Chris and Patrick, thanks for the stimulating posts.
I'd enjoy hearing more from you on these issues.
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:52:17 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cheap date (yesterday)
Pat,
chronotrope?? like say stephen rodefer inundating himself with the city in 4
lecturns and in any work after that no specific pop cult refs appear? do you
just get sick of something after being hit by the nth meteor?
and then what makes you heliotrope?
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:35:19 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: kathryne <KLINDBE@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: total quality mangled
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:59:39 -0500 from
<MDamon9999@AOL.COM>
This is old news: a response to a December 5 posting about prisons and
privitization and libraries.
There's lots to say on this clot of subjects, but I do want to
make just the slightest intervention. I think that teaching in prisons,
while possibly impossible for little white ladies (HA!!--on the last,anyway)
like myself, presents interesting possibilities. The whole line of
writing and revolution that held together the last Frankfurt School
belief in the revolutionary potential of the marginalized and bound
the Black Panther Party and others to emancipatory literacy wound
through prison libraries. I am thinking, in the front of my head, of
Herbert Marcuse, Angela Davis, George Jackson, and Huey P. Newton.
One would have also to remember both Malcolm X and, the rather less
jailed letter writer, Martin Luther King.
THE THING IS TO GET PEOPLE READING, everywhere and at all times.
Not to sound too Pollyanna, but where is the young punk/hunk/junkie
in prison who will write a piece of cultural critique as strong as
"Lazarus Come Forth"? Eldridge Cleaver was only the tip of an
On Ice potential. Prisons are horrible places, but horrors, too,
can be turned against atrocity. It takes a whole lot, however, to
keep hope alive and turn hatred toward its proper source and object.
Nevertheless, one cannot fail to be encouraged by the national prison
protests, right after the Million Man March, against the different
treatment of poor (mostly Black) crack users and Cocaine kings.
The prison communications systems and libraries might yet hold
the hope of revolution that too many have abandoned. Malcolm X
and others thought so. ANYWAY, sorry to be late to the list on this
topic, but my computer was jammed, my mind was manacled with student
work.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:10:36 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Pound/Joyce anecdote
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951221102623.12687A-100000
@godzilla3.acpub.duke.edu> from "David Kellogg" at Dec 21,
95 10:29:27 am
> The point, for me, is: Joyce isn't the tw.c. Homer, Pound isn't the tw.c.
> Dante, CO's not Milton. This kind of anachonistic parallelism only serves
> to lessen the individual's worth. I don't think Joyce sought the comparison
> between himself and Homer so much as between Bloom and Odyseus.
Of course Pound isn't the etc., nor Olson. Both, however, proposed to
write epics, as a number of other writers did before them. What
happens when you enter into that relation as a writer? Are you saying
that knowing the conventions of the epic is irrelevant to an
understanding of The Cantos or Maximus? Or, for that matter, the
Aeneid or Paradise Lost? Isn't the handling of those conventions a
crucial issue in terms of the writer's craft? And in terms of the poem's
measure? As for lessening the individual's worth, I have no idea what
that means. My experience is that writing devours the illusion of
the individual's worth.
Mike
mboughn@epas.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:40:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: helio digress
I was wearing a heliotrope shirt yesterday
I don't know if I'd say it was a beautiful shirt
But I liked the color
As far as constantly interrupting yourself goes
Could we fit say J Schuyler in the discussion a second?
Constantly interrupting yourself in a way that still
Sort of makes concessions to being socially accessible
Equals to my ears digressions and does anybody read
J.D. Salinger anymore in any context other than
Composition-teaching? That whole "digress!" passage
Gave me nightmares when I was growing up. It seemed very dated
To me when I read it in um middle school but now looking at it
It's pretty funny. Like Bugs Bunny. Or Howard Stern.
And to address briefly the idea of a de-authored voice
I'd like to mention the unknown work of Stephen Malmude
Whose poems in quatrains are entirely made of found materials
He writes maybe two or three poems a year
And they're smashing
Happy seasonal vacation
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:17:50 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Small Press Traffic reviews
This is Dodie Bellamy speaking, the "db" of dbkk@sirius.com. I'd like to
thank the poetics listserv for the enthusiastic response I've received to
my request for book reviews. I've got more than enough people for our Chax
Press/Talisman House issue of Small Press Traffic's newsletter, which I
hope to have out in March. Due to the generosity of Loss Glazier, the
newsletter will also be posted at the Electronic Poetry Center.
We'll be doing another newsletter featuring O-Books, Kelsey Street, and
Hard Press. When I get that list together, I'll post it on the listserv
and again ask for reviewers.
Thanks again.
Dodie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:32:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: MEXSICAN VIS- & SPOUNDPOETRY CONFERENCE IN JANUARY
Comments: cc: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@csbh.mhv.net>
=46or anyone who can manage to escape from Hayseeds' Heaven in mid-January,
there's one whale of a visual and sound poetry conference shaping up at
Mexico City from 10. to 21. January, exhbibition, etc. Contact C=E9sar
Espinosa at [52] (5) 554-4629 for more details. It is called POESIAVIXUAL
MEXICO INTERNACIONAL. He reads English but does not speak it easily, so
best to speak in Spanish or fax him in English. To fax him, call the
numberabove, when you hearan answer say "Fax tone please," and when you
hear the fax tone, transmit.
Hope to see a good many Poetics folk there-
Sincerely
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 19:41:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Patrick Phillips <Patrick_Phillips@BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wanna date?
Hank, I agree that, as you say, "the persistent attempt at self-disruption
is significant." But I also would say that the operative here is
"persistent...distruption" - the present tense - and I'd say it's damn near
impossible to eke out a history in the present tense, other than a personal
history. After all I think history is a troubled contextualization
socialized. On the other hand we have no choice but to try, and for me
therein lies the rub. Or to use a different form of Chris's "phase," we are
perpetually slightly out of phase. Somewhere in the middle between Stein's
history of each one and history of every one. Wish I could offer more, but
I've got to get some Thai food in the still-blowing snow.
I will say Hank that I distinctly remember reading Doublespace in a rose
garden somewhere between Piedmont avenue and Grand(?) in Oakland several
years ago and have a clear memory now of feeling as though the garden was a
mirror image of itself. Dunno, but there's some kinda context.
Pat
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 19:51:01 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Patrick Phillips <Patrick_Phillips@BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: cheap date (yesterday)
Bill
Answers:
I hear that the smallest fleck of space trash can gouge a hole in an
n-million dollar shuttle.
and
blazes (a.k. 47 poets at a slam)
Pat
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 04:14:00 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Great Books for the holidays
Two great new books for Kwaanza et al...
The Said Lands, Islands, and Premises, by Mary Margaret Sloan (aka
Margy), from CHAX, $11.00 (says so on the UPC!)
Keys to the Caverns, by Clark Coolidge, Zasterle Press (Manuel isn't
into that UPC stuff, this being a run of just 300--one of the largest
pieces Brito has printed, by the way, beautifully product perfect bound
book)
Both soon, if not yet, available from SPD.
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 10:28:37 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <hlazer@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: MLA - UA Press
I hereby invite Poetics list-ers who will be at MLA to stop by the
University of Alabama Press Booth (#1117, open 9-6 Dec 28 & 29, 9-12
Dec 30).
Person-ing the booth will be Nicole Mitchell who was
recently named the new Director of the UA Press. I have worked with
Nicole for a number of years. She is wonderful, and quite interested
in publishing criticism on innovative poetries. She previously
served as Acquisitions Editor for UA Press. Nicole was extremely
helpful in publishing John Taggart's _Songs of Degrees_ (collection of
essays), Susan Schultz's _Tribe of John_ (ed., essays on Ashbery),
Bruce Commens book on modern & postmodern poetries (including fine
work on Zukofsky). These books will be on display at MLA. Nicole
has also been instrumental in Mark Scroggins' forthcoming book on
Zukofsky. I've also urged Nicole to attend the U of California Press
party for Pierre & Jerry's (not Ben & Jerry's) big book. If you are
currently working on a manuscript, or have a project in mind, I urge
you to go by and talk to Nicole. Tell her Hank sent you....
Though I will not be at MLA, I wish the conventioneers a happy new
year and a bearable convention. Give Pierre & Jerry's book its
properly glorious celebration!
Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 10:42:21 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <hlazer@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: Wanna date?
Pat, et al,
Thanks for the kind words on Doublespace.
Pat's new book, _Ruin_, is quite fine. Beautiful cover, small book
that like the old Pocket Poets series fits in a back pocket, 76 pages
of engaging writing. Apropos of recent discussions of self-erasure
and self-interruption, a few passages from _Ruin_:
kin, an unquestionable posture.
gesture for sap, stark.
chased out midnight.
swerving oncoming traffic.
. . .
holding your tongue. gifted.
thought as a series of bumps--
(creatures in their element).
to have been told.
. . .
it's as supposed.
broke in. a trade. plum.
had looked out
and trespassing.
what was to be level.
round in foment.
level and round.
it was a mixture of corners.
story. an answer to calling.
except.
An enjoyable read, from What Books....
Reading Retallack and Cage this morning, found myself thinking that I
didn't want my almost steady flow of interruptions interrupted ....
Hank
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:49:40 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Daniel Bouchard/College/hmco <Daniel_Bouchard@HMCO.COM>
Subject: Greeting
A SWORD IN A CLOUD OF LIGHT
Your hand in mine, we walk out
To watch the Christmas Eve crowds
On Fillmore Street, the Black
District. The night is thick with
Frost. The people hurry, wreathed
In their smoky breaths. Before
The shop windows the children
Jump up and down with spangled
Eyes. Santa Clauses ring bells.
Cars stall and honk. Street cars clang.
Loud speakers on the lampposts
Sing carols, on juke boxes
In the bars Louis Armstrong
Plays White Christmas. In the joints
The girls strip and grind and bump
To Jingle Bells. Overhead
The neon signs scribble and
Erase and scribble again
Messages of avarice,
Joy, fear, hygiene, and the proud
Names of the middle classes.
The moon beams like a pudding.
We stop at the main corner
And look up, diagonally
Across, at the rising moon,
And the solemn, orderly
Vast winter constellations.
You say, Theres Orion!
The most beautiful object
Either of us will ever
Know in the world or in life
Stands in the moonlit empty
Heavens, over the swarming
Men, women, and children, black
And white, joyous and greedy,
Evil and good, buyer and victim,
Like some immense theorem
Which, if once solved would forever
Solve the mystery and pain
Under the bells and spangles.
There he is, the man of the
Night before Christmas, spread out
On the sky like a true god
In whom it would only be
Necessary to believe
A little. I am fifty
And you are five. It would do
No good to say this and it
May do no good to write it.
Believe in Orion. Believe
In the night, the moon, the crowded
Earth. Believe in Christmas and
Birthdays and Easter rabbits.
Believe in all those fugitive
Compounds of nature, all doomed
To waste away and go out.
Always be true to these things.
They are all there is. Never
Give up this savage religion
For the blood-drenched civilized
Abstractions of the rascals
Who live by killing you and me.
- Kenneth Rexroth (1905-1982)
________________________
To all poetics subscribers: happy holiday season and best wishes for a good new
year.
daniel_bouchard@hmco.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:44:21 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanna date?
yes. i think the world of ruin. one person's self erasure is another's self
eruption: afizz . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
help me, I'm.
cudgel of snow, or
maybe sun. I
think the world of you.
. . . . . . .
hi 5 pat.
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:31:30 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Dick Higgins/List of Sites
Comments: cc: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@conciliator.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Dick,
Just a note. Address changed this past Sept...
Old address:
> Interesting Poetry-
> ...
> Electronic Poetry
> Center-http://www.gopher://writing.upenn.edu/hh/internet/library/e-journals=
> /
> ub/rift/.hotlist
-----> New address: <-----
Electronic Poetry Center
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
All best,
Loss
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 18:38:29 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wanna date?
Thanks hank---
insofar as the waxing and waning of the moon is mapped as "phases"
in the blink of the shutter-eye, what is the "I" that wants to phase-out
the non-self that wants to phase out the "I" if there is not an IDENTITY
between the seemingly opposing nouns (agents) that draws one's attention
to the similarity of the verbs? Trying, straining, groping, grappling, etc--
And yet to say LET is better than to MAKE itself can become dogma,
rhetorical sleight of hand too. And for all those who can't see the
proof for the pudding, to boot....
and for all those who have cars, don't drive drunk less xmas comes
more than once a year.....
cs....
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:38:27 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: ELECTRONIC MUSIC PIONEERS (fwd)
It's probably too late for Xmas use, but here is a lovely catalogue of
electronic music composer Joel Chadabe & his eMUSIC Foundation just
put out. Should be of interest to a num,ber of people on this list.
There a special Cage catalogue, which I'll post seperately.
& may Clanta Sauce sweep all our chimneys with sexy abandon.
Pierre
Forwarded message:
> From Emusc@aol.com Mon Dec 11 13:03:24 1995
> From: Emusc@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:16:51 -0500
> Message-ID: <951208121650_128305139@mail04.mail.aol.com>
> To: Emfnet@aol.com
> Subject: ELECTRONIC MUSIC PIONEERS
>
> WELCOME TO eMUSIC
> =============================== October 1995
> ELECTRONIC MUSIC PIONEERS!
>
> Welcome to the eMUSICx pioneers catalog. These are the basic discs, listed
> in approximate chronological order, that will give you an excellent overview
> of the history of electronic music. Bear in mind that this discography is
> neither definitive nor final-as we find new discs that we can recommend,
> we'll add them.
>
> Other eMUSICx catalogs are available. Please write, call or email for more
> information. Note the sections following the disc listing called HOW TO
> ORDER and ABOUT eMUSIC AND THE INNER CIRCLE.
>
>
> =============================== THE DISCS
>
> FUTURISM AND DADA REVIEWED
> Historical recordings of artists Russolo, Marinetti, Duchamp, Tzara, Cocteau,
> Apollinaire, Schwitters, Huelsenbeck, with their voices and performances of
> their music, some of it words, some of it noise. Apollinaire recites his 'Le
> Pont Mirabeau' (1912), for example. Sub Rosa.
> => eMUSIC #SU-100 $19
>
> THE ART OF THE THEREMIN
> First demonstrated in 1920, the Theremin is played by moving one's hands in
> the air. Clara Rockmore is its first virtuoso, accompanied here by Nadia
> Reisenberg, pianist. The package includes an informative booklet. It's
> beautiful magic. Delos.
> => eMUSIC #DE-100 $16
>
> PIERRE SCHAEFFER: MUSICAL WORKS
> The definitive collection, including 'Etude aux Chemins de Fer' (Railroad
> Study, 1948), the first piece of musique concrete, and 'Symphonie pour un
> Homme Seul' (1950, Symphony for One Man Alone), which was a collboration with
> Pierre Henry. Four discs and a book of essays (in French) and photographs.
> INA-GRM.
> => eMUSIC #IN-106-6 $57
>
> STOCKHAUSEN: ELEKTRONISHE MUSIK 1952-1960
> 'Etude' (1952), composed at Pierre Schaeffer's studio in Paris, 'Studie I'
> (1953), 'Studie II' (1954), 'Gesang der Junglinge' (1956), and 'Kontakte'
> (1960). A book of essays and articles in German and English, scores, and
> photographs. Stockhausen Verlag.
> => eMUSIC #ST-100-3 $57
>
> ELECTRONIC MUSIC PIONEERS
> ...from the Columbia-Princeton Electronic Music Center. Vladimir
> Ussachevsky's 'Sonic Contours' and Otto Luening's 'Low Speed, Invention In
> Twelve Tones', and 'Fantasy In Space' were played at the Museum of Modern Art
> in New York on October 28, 1952. Also other compositions by Luening and
> Ussachevsky, and Pril Smiley, Bulent Arel, Alice Shields, and Mario
> Davidovsky. CRI.
> => eMUSIC #CR-100 $19
>
> GOTTFRIED MICHAEL KOENIG
> Koenig worked with Stockhausen in Cologne, then became director of the
> Institute for Sonology in Utrecht, Holland, where he began to formulate his
> pioneering approaches to composing with a computer. Here are his first
> electronic compositions including 'Klangfiguren II' (1955/56), 'Essay'
> (1957/58), and 'Terminus I' (1962), composed in Cologne; and 'Terminus II'
> (1966/67), 'Output' (1979), 'Funktion Rot' (1968), 'Funktion Grau' (1969),
> 'Funktion Blau' (1969), and 'Funktion Indigo' (1969), composed in Utrecht
> using an analog sequencer as a sound generator. Two discs and an informative
> booklet. BVHaast.
> => eMUSIC #BV-100-2 $33
>
> BERIO / MADERNA
> Luciano Berio was at the Museum of Modern Art in New York on October 28,
> 1952, and it led him to establish, with Bruno Maderna, the Studio di
> Fonologia at the Italian Radio in Milan. Berio's 'Thema-Omaggio a Joyce'
> (1958) transforms text from James Joyce' Ulysses. Also: Berio's 'Momenti'
> (1960) and 'Visage' (1961) and Maderna's 'Le Rire' (1962) and 'Invenzione su
> una Voce' (1960). BVHaast.
> => eMUSIC #BV-106 $19
>
> FORBIDDEN PLANET
> The original 1956 soundtrack to MGM's 'Forbidden Planet' by Louis and Bebe
> Barron. In their words, "We created individual cybernetic circuits for
> particular themes and leit motifs..." One of the first electronic film
> tracks. GNP Crescendo.
> => eMUSIC #GN-100 $16
>
> JOHN CAGE 25-YEAR RETROSPECTIVE CONCERT
> In New York in 1951, with the help of Louis and Bebe Barron, John Cage and
> David Tudor established the Project for Music for Magnetic Tape. Earle Brown
> arrived in 1952 and worked intensively with Cage to compose Cage's 'Williams
> Mix' (1952), named after architect Paul Williams who funded the project.
> Altogether, this is the famous recording, produced by George Avakian, of
> Cage's 25-Year Retrospective Concert at Town Hall, New York, in 1958.
> There's 'Williams Mix', 'Imaginary Landscape No. 1' (1939), 'The Wonderful
> Widow of Eighteen Springs' (1942), 'Music for Carillon No. 1' (1952),
> 'Sonatas and Interludes' (1948), and more. There's an extensive booklet,
> with score excerpts, photographs (some published for the first time), and
> text in English and German. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-145-4 $39
>
> THE NEW YORK SCHOOL 2
> In 1953, as part of the Project for Music for Magnetic Tape, Cage and Brown
> composed Brown's 'Octet I'. Also on this disc is music by John Cage, Morton
> Feldman, and Christian Wolff. Eberhard Blum plays flute and sound objects,
> Steffen Schleiermacher plays piano, Jan Williams plays percussion. The
> performances shine. Hat Hut.
> => eMUSIC #HA-251 $19
>
> COMPUTER MUSIC RETROSPECTIVE Lejaren Hiller's 'Illiac Suite' (1957) was the
> first time a computer was used to make musical decisions. It was the start
> of algorithmic composing and ancestor of computer interaction. Also other
> pieces by Hiller, among them 'An Avalanche for Pitchman', 'Prima Donna',
> 'Player Piano', 'Percussionist and pre-Recorded Playback', and it's wild!
> With Jan Williams, percussion, Robert Dick, flute, Nora Post, oboe, Royal
> McDonald, pitchman, Norma Marder, prima donna, and Robert Rosen, percussion.
> Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-124 $19
>
> INDETERMINACY
> John Cage reads his stories, one per minute, while David Tudor performs solos
> from the 'Concert for Piano and Orchestra' (1958). Tudor is great and Cage's
> stories are funny, touching, and intelligent. If you don't have this 2-CD
> set, you're missing an important part of life. Smithsonian/Folkways.
> => eMUSIC #SM-100-2 $29
>
> MUSIC FOR MERCE CUNNINGHAM
> Here's an important moment in the early history of electronic performance:
> John Cage's 'Cartridge Music' (1960) for phonograph cartridges and amplified
> small objects, played by David Tudor, Michael Pugliese, and Takehisa Kosugi.
> Also 'Five Stone Wind' (1988) with Tudor, Pugliese and Kosugi playing
> amplified violin, bamboo flute, live electronics, tapes, and clay pots.
> Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-105 $16
>
> JAMES TENNEY: SELECTED WORKS 1961-1969
> Tenney began at Bell Labs at the dawn of computer music. He led the way.
> This disc includes 'Collage => eMUSIC #1' ("Blue Suede") (1961), 'Analog =>
> eMUSIC #1: Noise Study' (1961), and other early pieces. Artifact.
> => eMUSIC #AR-106 $14
>
> IANNIS XENAKIS: LA LEGENDE D'EER
> The title comes from the end of Plato's The Republic. Xenakis composed the
> music with his graphics-based UPIC system. The music was part of his Diatope,
> a tent-space, based on hyperbolic paraboloids, that he designed as a setting
> for these sounds, lights and lasers. The sounds are stunning, like nothing
> you've heard elsewhere. Montaigne.
> => eMUSIC #ME-103 $18
>
> MORTON SUBOTNICK
> Building on his first work with the Buchla synthesizer in 1965, in 'Touch'
> (1969), Subotnick touches things to control the sound. 'Jacob's Room' (1986),
> on the other hand, is hi-tech drama with Joan La Barbara, soprano. From
> 'Touch' to 'Jacob's Room' is technology time travel. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-104 $19
>
> I AM SITTING IN A ROOM
> The resonance of a room gradually transforms Alvin Lucier's voice into
> abstract sounds. Composed in 1969, Lucier was at the time developing his
> unique approach to using acoustic processes as the basis for his music.
> Lovely.
> => eMUSIC #LO-103 $18
>
> JOHN CHOWNING
> Breakthrough moments in computer music, including 'Sabelithe' (1966, revised
> 1971), 'Turenas' (1972), 'Stria' (1977), and 'Phone' (1981). Chowning aimed
> at sounds that were special to computers yet expressive and beautiful. In
> 'Stria', for example, the sounds are simply out of this world. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-102 $19
>
> RISSET
> Classics of elegant computer music: 'Inharmonique' (1977), which relates
> sound and harmony; 'Sud' (1985), based on sounds of the sea near Marseilles;
> 'Dialogues' (1975), for flute, clarinet, piano, and percussion with taped
> computer sounds; and 'Mutations' (1969), composed at Bell Labs in New
> Jersey. INA-GRM.
> => eMUSIC #IN-103 $19
>
> ROARATORIO
> One of John Cage's big big big works, composed in 1979, with Cage reading his
> text 'Writing for the Second Time Through Finnegans Wake', Irish musicians
> playing and singing, and all the sounds mentioned in Finnegans Wake as
> assembled by Cage on a 62-track collage tape. Two discs include a
> conversation between Cage and Klaus Schoning (who commissioned the work for
> the WDR in Cologne) and a solo recording of Cage reading his text. Also two
> booklets with essays, conversations, and the text. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-108-3 $31
>
> THE HUB
> Music by John Bischoff, Tim Perkis, Chris Brown, Scot Gresham-Lancaster, Mark
> Trayle, and Phil Stone, all in the San Francisco area. It's a network
> approach to group performance. Artifact.
> => eMUSIC #AR-101 $14
>
> CONCERTO GROSSO
> Richard Teitelbaum composed this in 1985. Improvisations by Teitelbaum
> (keyboard and computer), Anthony Braxton (saxophones), and George Lewis
> (trombone) alternate with computer-controlled acoustic grand pianos and
> synthesizers. Lively, musical. Hat Hut.
> => eMUSIC #HA-118 $19
>
> GIUSEPPE G. ENGLERT
> Englert was a founder of the Groupe Art et Informatique de Vincennes (GAIV)
> in Paris. He's always looked for new ways to compose, to think. 'Sopra la
> Girolmeta' (1991), the electronic work here, is about algorithms and
> interactivity. Other pieces include 'Les Avoines folles' (1963) for string
> quartet, 'Fragment & Caracol' (1974) for orchestra, and 'Babel' (1983) for
> orchestra. Grammont.
> => eMUSIC #GR-101 $19
>
> DIGITAL SOUNDSCAPES
> Barry Truax's 'Riverrun' (1986) was a breakthrough in granular synthesis
> techniques. Truax said: "...to the fullest force of its mass, a river is
> formed from a collection of countless droplets..." Also 'The Blind Man'
> (1979), 'Aerial' (1979), 'Wave Edge' (1983), and 'Solar Ellipse' (1985).
> Cambridge.
> => eMUSIC #CG-100 $16
>
> XXIst CENTURY MANDOLIN
> David Jaffe's 'Silicon Valley Breakdown' (1982, revised 1993) was a
> breakthrough in the synthesized plucked string department, as in bluegrass,
> hoedowns, and all manner of styles. There's 'Grass Valley Fire', 1988,
> played by the Modern Mandolin Quartet, 'American Miniatures', composed with a
> NeXT Computer, and 'Ellis Island Sonata', with Jaffe playing mandolin. Well
> Tempered.
> => eMUSIC #WT-100 $18
>
> LEAPDAY NIGHT
> In the mid 1980s, David Behrman's computer listened and reacted to what an
> instrumentalist played. In 'Leapday Night' it's listening to Ben Neill and
> Rhys Chatham play trumpets, and in 'Interspecies Smalltalk' it's listening to
> Takehisa Kosugi play violin. Also 'A Traveller's Dream Journal'. Lovely.
> => eMUSIC #LO-107 $16
>
> MORE THAN IDLE CHATTER
> 'Idle Chatter, just_more_idel_chatter', 'Notjustmoreidlechatter', and other
> pieces from the mid 1980s and early 1990s that play with speech and the
> computer in a new way. As Lansky said, "There is music in speech, and speech
> in song." Bridge.
> => eMUSIC #BR-111 $16
>
> PERFECT LIVES
> Robert Ashley's video opera about bank robbery, cocktail lounges, geriatric
> love, adolescent elopement, et al, in the American midwest. One of the
> definitive text-sound compositions of the late 20th century and beautiful
> music. "Who needs the Bible? We have Perfect Lives."-John Cage. Lovely.
> => eMUSIC #LO-127-3 $47
>
> TONGUES OF FIRE
> Trevor Wishart is, by turns, comic, threatening, complex, and simple, as he
> makes virtuoso computer transformations of his unique vocal sounds. A 25
> minute CD, but packed. OTP.
> => eMUSIC #OT-100 $14
>
> MOVIN' ON
> Updated jazz. Bruno Spoerri plays saxophones, Synthophone (electronic
> saxophone invented by Martin Hurni in Switzerland), synthesizers, and a
> Macintosh computer. Reto Weber does a lot with percussion. With Albert
> Mengelsdorff, trombonist, and Ernst Reijseger, cellist. Turicaphon.
> => eMUSIC #TU-100 $19
>
>
> =============================== HOW TO ORDER
>
> Contact eMUSICx by email, fax, regular mail, or telephone, with a list of the
> CDs you'd like to buy. Bear in mind that certain prices may change and that
> some discs are available only in relatively small numbers. We'll fill orders
> at current prices as we receive them.
>
> Tell us your address (including email) and phone numbers, and where you'd
> like the discs shipped.
>
> Please pay in advance. You can calculate the amount of your payment as
> follows:
>
> 1. Add together the prices of the discs you'd like to buy. INNER CIRCLE
> subscribers, take a 10% discount from the sum. ICMA or SEAMUS members, take a
> 5% discount from the sum. Discounts are not cumulative.
>
> 2. Then add the appropriate amount for shipping (priority mail) and
> handling. If a disc is listed in the format LO-100, for example, count it as
> one disc for shipping. If there's an extra number at the end, as in
> "ST-100-3," for example -- the "3" at the end means that for shipping
> purposes, the package should be counted as three discs. Use the following
> table to calculate shipping/handling costs:
>
> North America & Mexico: First disc $2.00, each additional disc $1.00.
> South America: First disc $3.00, each additional disc $1.50.
> Europe: First disc $4.00, each additional disc $2.00.
> Asia/Australasia: First disc $5.00, each additional disc $2.50.
>
> 3. Then, if you live in New York State, add 8% sales tax to the total. (New
> York State requires that we also charge sales tax on shipping and handling
> charges.)
>
> We accept credit cards (Mastercard and VISA). We also accept checks, bank
> drafts and money orders -- but only in US$, drawn on a US bank. If you're
> paying by credit card, we need your name (as it appears on the card), your
> card number, expiration date, and your billing address and phone number (in
> case we need to contact you). Please give us credit card information by fax,
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> your information. Then you can email your orders -- and just tell us to
> charge your card.
>
> Email to: eMUSC@aol.com
> Fax to: (518) 434-0308
> Telephone to: (518) 434-4110
> Hard mail and carrier pigeon to: eMUSICx, 116 North Lake Avenue, Albany NY
> 12206, USA
>
>
> =============================== ABOUT eMUSIC
>
> eMUSICx is a worldwide service that gives you easy, direct-mail access to one
> of the most comprehensive selections of compact discs of experimental,
> exceptional, and/or electronic music. Wherever you live, eMUSIC brings you
> CDs that may be hard to find, discs published by small companies or
> independent composers or performers, even recordings you may not have known
> existed.
>
> eMUSICx catalogs are circulated via email, hard-mail list, and (soon) the
> World Wide Web. Let us know how you'd prefer to receive information. And if
> you're serious about this, please consider joining the INNER CIRCLE. You'll
> receive discounts on disc purchases, INNER CIRCLE disc offers, and other
> benefits. To join the eMUSIC INNER CIRCLE, make a one-time tax-deductible
> gift of $100.
>
> eMUSICx is a program of Electronic Music Foundation (EMF). A not-for-profit
> organization in New York State, USA, EMF exists to disseminate information
> and materials related to the history and development of electronic music.
>
> =====================================================
>
> eMUSIC and Inner Circle are trademarks of Electronic Music Foundation, Inc.
>
> Electronic Music Foundation
> 116 North Lake Avenue
> Albany NY 12206
> USA
>
> Voice: (518) 434-4110
> Fax: (518) 434-0308
> Email: EMusF@aol.com
>
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:38:56 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: John Cage Discography (fwd)
Forwarded message:
From Emusc@aol.com Fri Dec 15 11:35:50 1995
From: Emusc@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:23:27 -0500
Message-ID: <951215112326_55039266@mail06.mail.aol.com>
To: Emfnet@aol.com
Subject: John Cage Discography
WELCOME TO eMUSIC!
=============================== FALL 1995
A SELECTED JOHN CAGE DISCOGRAPHY
This selected discography, with discs listed in somewhat chronological order,
is drawn from all the CDs currently in print that contain Cage's music. It is
neither definitive nor final: as we find new discs that we can recommend,
we'll add them. Meanwhile, all the major phases of Cage's career are
represented here, with some works available in more than one version.
The Cage discography is the first of our subject catalogs. In the next few
months, you can expect to see catalogs on microtonal music, pioneers of
electronic music, words and music, transformed sounds, improvisation, and
more.
You'll also see a variety of special catalogs from time to time. Coming
soon: a Larry Austin birthday tribute, with the entire CDCM catalog at sale
prices; a group of special publisher offers; and "Discs Warren Burt has Known
and Loved."
For information on how to order CDs, read HOW TO ORDER immediately following
the listing of discs.
For more information about eMUSIC, read ABOUT eMUSIC.
If you would like to hear more from us, please tell us -- by ordering a disc,
by sending us a message that you'd like to stay on our mailing list, or by
joining the INNER CIRCLE. We suggest that you read about discounts and other
benefits in the section called ABOUT THE INNER CIRCLE, which follows the disc
listing.
=============================== THE DISCS
WORKS FOR PERCUSSION
Many of Cage's early percussion works, wonderfully performed by the Quatuor
Helios. Included are 'First Construction (in metal)' (1939), 'Second
Construction' (1940), 'Third Construction' (1941), 'Double Music' (composed
with Lou Harrison, 1941), 'Imaginary Landscape No. 2' (1942), and 'Amores'
and 'She is Asleep' (both 1943). Wergo.
=> eMUSIC #WE-143 $19
WORKS FOR PIANO... VOLUME III
Works for piano, toy piano and prepared piano, performed by Joshua Pierce,
Maro Ajemian, Marilyn Crispell, and Joseph Kubera. The disc includes: 'Suite
for Toy Piano' (1948), the solo piano version of 'The Seasons' (1947), 'Music
for Amplified Toy Pianos,' and 'A Book of Music' (1944) for two prepared
pianos. Wergo.
=> eMUSIC #WE-140 $19
THE PERILOUS NIGHT
'The Perilous Night' (1944), performed beautifully Margaret Leng Tan. As
Cage said, "I had poured a great deal of emotion into the piece..." 'Four
Walls' (1944), also on this disc, was written during the same period. New
Albion.
=> eMUSIC #NA-126 $17
SONATAS AND INTERLUDES
Joshua Pierce's delicate and sparkling performance of 'Sonatas and
Interludes' (1948) for prepared piano, perhaps Cage's most recorded work.
Wergo.
=> eMUSIC #WE-146 $19
MUSIC OF CHANGES
'Music of Changes' (1951), Cage's first rigorous application of chance
techniques to composition. Originally written for David Tudor, it's played
here by Herbert Henck. An essential part of every Cage collection. Wergo.
=> eMUSIC #WE-137 $19
THE NEW YORK SCHOOL 1
This disc contains Cage's 'Variation 1' (1958), 'Seven Haiku' (1952), and
'Solo for Flute, Alto Flute and Piccolo' (1958). More: Earle Brown's 'Folio'
(1953), 'Music for Cello and Piano'; Morton Feldman's 'Projection 1'
(1950), 'Extension 3' (1953), 'Intersection 4' (1954), 'Duration 2' (1960);
and Christian Wolff's 'For Prepared Piano' (1951), 'For One, Two or Three
Performers' (1964). Eberhard Blum plays flute, Frances Marie Uitti plays
cello, Nils Vigeland plays piano. Hat Hut.
=> eMUSIC #HA-209 $19
THE NEW YORK SCHOOL 2
Whether or not John Cage, Earle Brown, Morton Feldman, and Christian Wolff
were a "school," their music surely goes well together. Eberhard Blum plays
flute and sound objects, Steffen Schleiermacher plays piano, Jan Williams
plays percussion. The performances shine. Williams does 'cC/omposed
Improvisation' (1987) as a snare drum solo. Blum, as in 'Variations II'
(1961), makes acoustic realizations of Cage works earlier realized with
electronics. Brown's 'Octet I' (1953) was part of Cage's Project of Music
for Magnetic Tape. Hat Hut.
=> eMUSIC #HA-251 $19
25-YEAR RETROSPECTIVE CONCERT
The famous recording, produced by George Avakian, of Cage's 25-Year
Retrospective Concert at Town Hall, New York City, in 1958, with 'Imaginary
Landscape No. 1' (1939), 'The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs' (1942),
'Music for Carillon No. 1' (1952), 'Sonatas and Interludes' (1948), 'Williams
Mix' (1952) from the Project of Music for Magnetic Tape, and more. There's
an extensive booklet, with score excerpts, photographs (some published for
the first time), and text in English and German. Wergo. => eMUSIC #WE-145-4
$39
INDETERMINACY
John Cage himself reads his stories at the rate of one per minute -- while
David Tudor simultaneously and asynchronously performs the piano solo from
the 'Concert for Piano and Orchestra' (1958). Tudor is great and Cage's
stories are funny, touching, and intelligent. If you don't have this 2-CD
set, you're missing an important part of life. Smithsonian/Folkways.
=> eMUSIC #SM-100-2 $29
CONCERT FOR PIANO AND ORCHESTRA & ATLAS ECLIPTICALIS
These performances by the SEM Ensemble, conducted by Petr Kotik with Joseph
Kubera playing piano, are the best performances of 'Concert for Piano and
Orchestra' (1958) and 'Atlas Eclipticalis' (1961) available on disc. Kotik
understands Cage. Wergo.
=> eMUSIC #WE-144 $19
MUSIC FOR MERCE CUNNINGHAM
Here's an important moment in the early history of electronic performance:
John Cage's Cartridge Music (1960) for phonograph cartridges and amplified
small objects, played by David Tudor, Michael Pugliese, and Takehisa Kosugi.
This performance is gentle yet somehow "crunchy." Also Five Stone Wind
(1988) with Tudor, Pugliese and Kosugi playing amplified violin, bamboo
flute, live electronics, tapes, and clay pots. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-105 $16
ERIK SATIE: SOCRATE & JOHN CAGE: CHEAP IMITATION
A perfect post-modern pairing! Satie's 'Socrate,' performed here in the
original version by Hilke Helling, alto, and Deborah Richards, pianist. And
Cage's 'Cheap Imitation' (1969) for piano, the re-processed version,
performed by Herbert Henck. Wergo.
=> eMUSIC #WE-142 $19
ETUDES AUSTRALES
Grete Sultan, for whom they were composed, plays the 'Etudes Australes'
(1975), a massive and virtuoso set of piano etudes from the 1970s. Wergo.
=> eMUSIC #WE-147-3 $57
JOHN CAGE: VIOLIN MUSIC
Paul Zukofsky plays Cage's 'Chorals' (from 'Solos for Voice'), 'Cheap
Imitation' (1969), and 'Freeman Etudes I-VIII' (1980 & 1990). In 'Chorals,'
perhaps Cage's most intensely microtonal piece, Zukofsky shows just how
finely pitches can be played. This version of 'Cheap Imitation,' composed in
consultation with Zukofsky, uses a multi-modal Pythagorean tuning. And the
'Freeman Etudes' might qualify as the most difficult violin music ever
written. CP2.
=> eMUSIC #CP-102 $16
SINGING THROUGH
Joan La Barbara sings Cage's vocal music beautifully. There's 'Mirakus'
(1984) on a text by Marcel Duchamp, 'Eight Whiskus' (1984) on a text by Chris
Mann, 'The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs' (1942) and 'Nowth Upon Nacht'
(1984) on text from James Joyce's 'Finnegans Wake,' 'Sonnekus' (1985) on
Biblical and cabaret texts, 'Forever and Sunsmell' (1942) on text by
e.e.cummings, 'Solo for Voice 49' (1970) on text by Henry David Thoreau,
'Solo for Voice 52' (1970) using vowels from Erik Satie and Thoreau texts,
'Solo for Voice 67' (1970) using various words, and 'Music for Two (by One)'
(1984) on abstract vocal sounds. New Albion.
=> eMUSIC #NA-110 $17
JOHN CAGE: ORCHESTRAL WORKS 1
Finally! '101' (1989), for cooperative musicians without a conductor;
'Apartment House 1776' (1976), historical musicircus Americana written for
the bicentennial; and 'Ryoanji' (1985), in this version for four soloists
and orchestra. Cage found a new way of writing for orchestra. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-118 $16
ROARATORIO
One of John Cage's big big big works, composed in 1979, with Cage reading his
text 'Writing for the Second Time Through Finnegans Wake,' Irish musicians
playing and singing, and all the sounds mentioned in "Finnegans Wake" as
assembled by Cage on a 62-track collage tape. Two discs include a
conversation between Cage and Klaus Schoning (who commissioned the work for
the WDR in Cologne) and a solo recording of Cage reading his text. Also two
booklets with essays, conversations, and the text. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-108-3 $31
JOHN CAGE: FREEMAN ETUDES, BOOKS ONE & TWO
Irvine Arditti plays the first half of this massive virtuoso solo violin work
composed in the late 1970s and again in the late 1980s, written as an example
of the 'hard work' that would be necessary to solve global problems. If
Arditti's virtuosity is an indication, there's hope for the world. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-116 $16
JOHN CAGE: FREEMAN ETUDES, BOOKS THREE & FOUR
Irvine Arditti plays the second half of this major violin work. It's even
denser, even harder than the first. And again, Arditti plays them with
elegance. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-117 $16
EUROPERAS 3 & 4
John Cage wrote: "What is Europera 3 but a big party?" And indeed it is!
Juxtapositions of singing, pianos, old recordings, and all manner of sounds
suggestive of opera. And with 'Europera 4,' all the elements of opera come
together in a big party. Performed by the Long Beach Opera. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-112-3 $29
EUROPERA 5
The last of the series of Cage's assemblages of the European opera tradition,
'Europera 5' (1991) calls for two singers (Martha Herr and Gary Burgess), one
piano (Yvar Mikhashoff), one 78-rpm victrola, one radio (Jan Williams), and
one tape (Don Metz), all of which are combined in such a way that long
silences and hilarious juxtapositions occur. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-111 $16
JOHN CAGE: COMPLETE STRING QUARTETS, VOLUME 1
Cage wrote one "early" and three "late" string quartets. The Arditti Quartet
very understandingly plays two of the late works: 'Thirty Pieces for String
Quartet' (1981) and 'Music for Four for String Quartet' (composed as part of
Cage's 'Music For ' series between 1984 and 1987). Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-114 $16
JOHN CAGE: COMPLETE STRING QUARTETS, VOLUME 2
The Arditti Quartet plays the 'String Quartet in 4 Parts' (1950), an early
transitional piece that floats gently along in its serene and lovely way.
Also the very late 'Four,' which refines, if anything, the stillness of its
predecessor in terms more austere. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-115 $16
THE NUMBER PIECES 1
Three very late, rarified, sparse chamber pieces by John Cage. 'Four3'
(1991), based on Satie's 'Vexations' and composed for Merce Cunningham, is
scored for twelve rainsticks, two pianos (one inside the hall and one
outside) and violin playing held notes. 'One5' (1990) is a solo piano work
and 'Two6' (1992) is a piece for violin and piano, recorded by Martine Joste
and Ami Flammer, the musicians Cage wrote it for. Mode.
=> eMUSIC #MO-119 $16
FIFTY-EIGHT
One of John Cage's very last pieces, 'Fifty-Eight' was written for the
Pannonisches Blasorchester, an Austrian/Hungarian wind band, to perform it in
the Renaissance courtyard of the Landhaushof in Graz. The porticos around
the courtyard consist of fifty-eight arches. One wind player was stationed
in each arch. Hat Hut.
=> eMUSIC #HA-241 $19
=============================== HOW TO ORDER
To order discs, contact eMUSIC via email, fax, regular mail, telephone, by
personal appointment -- or, in extreme cases, by carrier pigeon. Give us a
list of the CDs you'd like to buy, and mention their eMUSIC catalog numbers.
Please bear in mind that certain prices may change and that some discs are
available only in relatively small numbers. We'll fill orders at current
prices as we receive them.
Tell us your address (including email) and phone numbers, and where you'd
like the discs shipped (if it's different from your mailing address).
Please pay in advance. You can calculate the amount of your payment as
follows:
1. Add together the prices of the discs you'd like to buy. If you're a
member of the INNER CIRCLE, take a 10% discount from the sum. If you're a
member of ICMA or SEAMUS, take a 5% discount from the sum. Discounts are not
cumulative.
2. Then add the appropriate amount for shipping (priority mail) and
handling. If a disc is listed in the format LO-100, for example, count it as
one disc for shipping. If there's an extra number at the end, as in
"ST-100-3," for example -- the "3" at the end means that for shipping
purposes, the package should be counted as three discs. Use the following
table to calculate shipping/handling costs:
North America & Mexico: First disc $2.00, each additional disc $1.00.
South America: First disc $3.00, each additional disc $1.50.
Europe: First disc $4.00, each additional disc $2.00.
Asia/Australasia: First disc $5.00, each additional disc $2.50.
3. Then, if you live in New York State, add 8% sales tax to the total. (New
York State requires that we also charge sales tax on shipping and handling
charges.)
We accept credit cards (Mastercard and VISA). We also accept checks, bank
drafts and money orders -- but only in US$, drawn on a US bank.
If you're paying by credit card, we need your name (as it appears on the
card), your card number, the expiration date of the card, and your billing
address and phone number (in case we need to contact you). Please give us
credit card information by fax, phone, or regular mail, (rather than email)
to protect the confidentiality of your information. After you've provided us
with your credit card information, you can email your orders -- and just tell
us to charge your card.
Place your order by --
Email to: eMusc@aol.com
Fax to: (518) 434-0308
Telephone to: (518) 434-4110
Hard mail and carrier pigeon to: eMUSIC, 116 North Lake Avenue, Albany NY
12206, USA
=============================== ABOUT eMUSIC
eMUSIC is a worldwide service that gives you easy, direct-mail access to one
of the most comprehensive selections of compact discs of experimental,
exceptional, and/or electronic music. Wherever you live, eMUSIC brings you
CDs that may be hard to find, discs published by small companies or
independent composers or performers, even recordings you may not have known
existed.
How does it work? Different eMUSIC catalogs are circulated in different
media. If you're on our email list, we'll send you a brief catalog of
selected discs every few weeks. If you're on our hard-mail list, we'll send
you a catalog of selected discs every season. If you have access to the
World Wide Web, you'll find (as of this fall), an up-to-date list our
offerings on our Home Page. Let us know how you'd prefer to receive our
information.
However you receive them, you'll find our eMUSIC catalogs filled with
electronic music history, unusual sounds, new ways of combining words and
music, new approaches to improvisation, computer music, interactive music,
portraits of composers, interpreters of 20th-century...and more! Our goal is
to make available every disc of experimental, exceptional, and electronic
music.
=============================== ABOUT THE INNER CIRCLE
If you're serious about all this, consider joining the INNER CIRCLE. You'll
receive:
- A ten percent discount on all disc purchases.
- Special INNER CIRCLE disc offers.
- Free access to our search and special-order service.
If you're a music professional, there are other benefits as well. Ask about
them.
eMUSIC is a program of Electronic Music Foundation (EMF). A not-for-profit
organization in New York State, USA, EMF exists to disseminate information
and materials related to the history and development of electronic music.
To join the eMUSIC INNER CIRCLE, make a one-time gift of $100 to EMF. If you
act now, you'll also become a Charter Subscriber to EMF.
=====================================================
eMUSIC and Inner Circle are trademarks of Electronic Music Foundation, Inc.
Electronic Music Foundation
116 North Lake Avenue
Albany NY 12206
USA
Voice: (518) 434-4110
Fax: (518) 434-0308
email: eMusF@aol.com
####
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:49:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: John Cage Discography (fwd)
woops, that was not a new versions of empty words I sent over, only an
eel-glitch. here's the cage cat -- pierre
& hope to see many of you in Chicago: the MILLENNIUM party's on thursday,
december 28 @ 5:15 in Chicago Ballroom C of the Chicago Marriott Hotel
Forwarded message:
> From Emusc@aol.com Fri Dec 15 11:35:50 1995
> From: Emusc@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:23:27 -0500
> Message-ID: <951215112326_55039266@mail06.mail.aol.com>
> To: Emfnet@aol.com
> Subject: John Cage Discography
>
> WELCOME TO eMUSIC!
> =============================== FALL 1995
>
> A SELECTED JOHN CAGE DISCOGRAPHY
>
> This selected discography, with discs listed in somewhat chronological order,
> is drawn from all the CDs currently in print that contain Cage's music. It is
> neither definitive nor final: as we find new discs that we can recommend,
> we'll add them. Meanwhile, all the major phases of Cage's career are
> represented here, with some works available in more than one version.
>
> The Cage discography is the first of our subject catalogs. In the next few
> months, you can expect to see catalogs on microtonal music, pioneers of
> electronic music, words and music, transformed sounds, improvisation, and
> more.
>
> You'll also see a variety of special catalogs from time to time. Coming
> soon: a Larry Austin birthday tribute, with the entire CDCM catalog at sale
> prices; a group of special publisher offers; and "Discs Warren Burt has Known
> and Loved."
>
> For information on how to order CDs, read HOW TO ORDER immediately following
> the listing of discs.
>
> For more information about eMUSIC, read ABOUT eMUSIC.
>
> If you would like to hear more from us, please tell us -- by ordering a disc,
> by sending us a message that you'd like to stay on our mailing list, or by
> joining the INNER CIRCLE. We suggest that you read about discounts and other
> benefits in the section called ABOUT THE INNER CIRCLE, which follows the disc
> listing.
>
>
> =============================== THE DISCS
>
> WORKS FOR PERCUSSION
> Many of Cage's early percussion works, wonderfully performed by the Quatuor
> Helios. Included are 'First Construction (in metal)' (1939), 'Second
> Construction' (1940), 'Third Construction' (1941), 'Double Music' (composed
> with Lou Harrison, 1941), 'Imaginary Landscape No. 2' (1942), and 'Amores'
> and 'She is Asleep' (both 1943). Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-143 $19
>
> WORKS FOR PIANO... VOLUME III
> Works for piano, toy piano and prepared piano, performed by Joshua Pierce,
> Maro Ajemian, Marilyn Crispell, and Joseph Kubera. The disc includes: 'Suite
> for Toy Piano' (1948), the solo piano version of 'The Seasons' (1947), 'Music
> for Amplified Toy Pianos,' and 'A Book of Music' (1944) for two prepared
> pianos. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-140 $19
>
> THE PERILOUS NIGHT
> 'The Perilous Night' (1944), performed beautifully Margaret Leng Tan. As
> Cage said, "I had poured a great deal of emotion into the piece..." 'Four
> Walls' (1944), also on this disc, was written during the same period. New
> Albion.
> => eMUSIC #NA-126 $17
>
> SONATAS AND INTERLUDES
> Joshua Pierce's delicate and sparkling performance of 'Sonatas and
> Interludes' (1948) for prepared piano, perhaps Cage's most recorded work.
> Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-146 $19
>
> MUSIC OF CHANGES
> 'Music of Changes' (1951), Cage's first rigorous application of chance
> techniques to composition. Originally written for David Tudor, it's played
> here by Herbert Henck. An essential part of every Cage collection. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-137 $19
>
> THE NEW YORK SCHOOL 1
> This disc contains Cage's 'Variation 1' (1958), 'Seven Haiku' (1952), and
> 'Solo for Flute, Alto Flute and Piccolo' (1958). More: Earle Brown's 'Folio'
> (1953), 'Music for Cello and Piano'; Morton Feldman's 'Projection 1'
> (1950), 'Extension 3' (1953), 'Intersection 4' (1954), 'Duration 2' (1960);
> and Christian Wolff's 'For Prepared Piano' (1951), 'For One, Two or Three
> Performers' (1964). Eberhard Blum plays flute, Frances Marie Uitti plays
> cello, Nils Vigeland plays piano. Hat Hut.
> => eMUSIC #HA-209 $19
>
> THE NEW YORK SCHOOL 2
> Whether or not John Cage, Earle Brown, Morton Feldman, and Christian Wolff
> were a "school," their music surely goes well together. Eberhard Blum plays
> flute and sound objects, Steffen Schleiermacher plays piano, Jan Williams
> plays percussion. The performances shine. Williams does 'cC/omposed
> Improvisation' (1987) as a snare drum solo. Blum, as in 'Variations II'
> (1961), makes acoustic realizations of Cage works earlier realized with
> electronics. Brown's 'Octet I' (1953) was part of Cage's Project of Music
> for Magnetic Tape. Hat Hut.
> => eMUSIC #HA-251 $19
>
> 25-YEAR RETROSPECTIVE CONCERT
> The famous recording, produced by George Avakian, of Cage's 25-Year
> Retrospective Concert at Town Hall, New York City, in 1958, with 'Imaginary
> Landscape No. 1' (1939), 'The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs' (1942),
> 'Music for Carillon No. 1' (1952), 'Sonatas and Interludes' (1948), 'Williams
> Mix' (1952) from the Project of Music for Magnetic Tape, and more. There's
> an extensive booklet, with score excerpts, photographs (some published for
> the first time), and text in English and German. Wergo. => eMUSIC #WE-145-4
> $39
>
> INDETERMINACY
> John Cage himself reads his stories at the rate of one per minute -- while
> David Tudor simultaneously and asynchronously performs the piano solo from
> the 'Concert for Piano and Orchestra' (1958). Tudor is great and Cage's
> stories are funny, touching, and intelligent. If you don't have this 2-CD
> set, you're missing an important part of life. Smithsonian/Folkways.
> => eMUSIC #SM-100-2 $29
>
> CONCERT FOR PIANO AND ORCHESTRA & ATLAS ECLIPTICALIS
> These performances by the SEM Ensemble, conducted by Petr Kotik with Joseph
> Kubera playing piano, are the best performances of 'Concert for Piano and
> Orchestra' (1958) and 'Atlas Eclipticalis' (1961) available on disc. Kotik
> understands Cage. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-144 $19
>
> MUSIC FOR MERCE CUNNINGHAM
> Here's an important moment in the early history of electronic performance:
> John Cage's Cartridge Music (1960) for phonograph cartridges and amplified
> small objects, played by David Tudor, Michael Pugliese, and Takehisa Kosugi.
> This performance is gentle yet somehow "crunchy." Also Five Stone Wind
> (1988) with Tudor, Pugliese and Kosugi playing amplified violin, bamboo
> flute, live electronics, tapes, and clay pots. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-105 $16
>
> ERIK SATIE: SOCRATE & JOHN CAGE: CHEAP IMITATION
> A perfect post-modern pairing! Satie's 'Socrate,' performed here in the
> original version by Hilke Helling, alto, and Deborah Richards, pianist. And
> Cage's 'Cheap Imitation' (1969) for piano, the re-processed version,
> performed by Herbert Henck. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-142 $19
>
> ETUDES AUSTRALES
> Grete Sultan, for whom they were composed, plays the 'Etudes Australes'
> (1975), a massive and virtuoso set of piano etudes from the 1970s. Wergo.
> => eMUSIC #WE-147-3 $57
>
> JOHN CAGE: VIOLIN MUSIC
> Paul Zukofsky plays Cage's 'Chorals' (from 'Solos for Voice'), 'Cheap
> Imitation' (1969), and 'Freeman Etudes I-VIII' (1980 & 1990). In 'Chorals,'
> perhaps Cage's most intensely microtonal piece, Zukofsky shows just how
> finely pitches can be played. This version of 'Cheap Imitation,' composed in
> consultation with Zukofsky, uses a multi-modal Pythagorean tuning. And the
> 'Freeman Etudes' might qualify as the most difficult violin music ever
> written. CP2.
> => eMUSIC #CP-102 $16
>
> SINGING THROUGH
> Joan La Barbara sings Cage's vocal music beautifully. There's 'Mirakus'
> (1984) on a text by Marcel Duchamp, 'Eight Whiskus' (1984) on a text by Chris
> Mann, 'The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs' (1942) and 'Nowth Upon Nacht'
> (1984) on text from James Joyce's 'Finnegans Wake,' 'Sonnekus' (1985) on
> Biblical and cabaret texts, 'Forever and Sunsmell' (1942) on text by
> e.e.cummings, 'Solo for Voice 49' (1970) on text by Henry David Thoreau,
> 'Solo for Voice 52' (1970) using vowels from Erik Satie and Thoreau texts,
> 'Solo for Voice 67' (1970) using various words, and 'Music for Two (by One)'
> (1984) on abstract vocal sounds. New Albion.
> => eMUSIC #NA-110 $17
>
> JOHN CAGE: ORCHESTRAL WORKS 1
> Finally! '101' (1989), for cooperative musicians without a conductor;
> 'Apartment House 1776' (1976), historical musicircus Americana written for
> the bicentennial; and 'Ryoanji' (1985), in this version for four soloists
> and orchestra. Cage found a new way of writing for orchestra. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-118 $16
>
> ROARATORIO
> One of John Cage's big big big works, composed in 1979, with Cage reading his
> text 'Writing for the Second Time Through Finnegans Wake,' Irish musicians
> playing and singing, and all the sounds mentioned in "Finnegans Wake" as
> assembled by Cage on a 62-track collage tape. Two discs include a
> conversation between Cage and Klaus Schoning (who commissioned the work for
> the WDR in Cologne) and a solo recording of Cage reading his text. Also two
> booklets with essays, conversations, and the text. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-108-3 $31
>
> JOHN CAGE: FREEMAN ETUDES, BOOKS ONE & TWO
> Irvine Arditti plays the first half of this massive virtuoso solo violin work
> composed in the late 1970s and again in the late 1980s, written as an example
> of the 'hard work' that would be necessary to solve global problems. If
> Arditti's virtuosity is an indication, there's hope for the world. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-116 $16
>
> JOHN CAGE: FREEMAN ETUDES, BOOKS THREE & FOUR
> Irvine Arditti plays the second half of this major violin work. It's even
> denser, even harder than the first. And again, Arditti plays them with
> elegance. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-117 $16
>
> EUROPERAS 3 & 4
> John Cage wrote: "What is Europera 3 but a big party?" And indeed it is!
> Juxtapositions of singing, pianos, old recordings, and all manner of sounds
> suggestive of opera. And with 'Europera 4,' all the elements of opera come
> together in a big party. Performed by the Long Beach Opera. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-112-3 $29
>
> EUROPERA 5
> The last of the series of Cage's assemblages of the European opera tradition,
> 'Europera 5' (1991) calls for two singers (Martha Herr and Gary Burgess), one
> piano (Yvar Mikhashoff), one 78-rpm victrola, one radio (Jan Williams), and
> one tape (Don Metz), all of which are combined in such a way that long
> silences and hilarious juxtapositions occur. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-111 $16
>
> JOHN CAGE: COMPLETE STRING QUARTETS, VOLUME 1
> Cage wrote one "early" and three "late" string quartets. The Arditti Quartet
> very understandingly plays two of the late works: 'Thirty Pieces for String
> Quartet' (1981) and 'Music for Four for String Quartet' (composed as part of
> Cage's 'Music For ' series between 1984 and 1987). Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-114 $16
>
> JOHN CAGE: COMPLETE STRING QUARTETS, VOLUME 2
> The Arditti Quartet plays the 'String Quartet in 4 Parts' (1950), an early
> transitional piece that floats gently along in its serene and lovely way.
> Also the very late 'Four,' which refines, if anything, the stillness of its
> predecessor in terms more austere. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-115 $16
>
> THE NUMBER PIECES 1
> Three very late, rarified, sparse chamber pieces by John Cage. 'Four3'
> (1991), based on Satie's 'Vexations' and composed for Merce Cunningham, is
> scored for twelve rainsticks, two pianos (one inside the hall and one
> outside) and violin playing held notes. 'One5' (1990) is a solo piano work
> and 'Two6' (1992) is a piece for violin and piano, recorded by Martine Joste
> and Ami Flammer, the musicians Cage wrote it for. Mode.
> => eMUSIC #MO-119 $16
>
> FIFTY-EIGHT
> One of John Cage's very last pieces, 'Fifty-Eight' was written for the
> Pannonisches Blasorchester, an Austrian/Hungarian wind band, to perform it in
> the Renaissance courtyard of the Landhaushof in Graz. The porticos around
> the courtyard consist of fifty-eight arches. One wind player was stationed
> in each arch. Hat Hut.
> => eMUSIC #HA-241 $19
>
>
> =============================== HOW TO ORDER
>
> To order discs, contact eMUSIC via email, fax, regular mail, telephone, by
> personal appointment -- or, in extreme cases, by carrier pigeon. Give us a
> list of the CDs you'd like to buy, and mention their eMUSIC catalog numbers.
> Please bear in mind that certain prices may change and that some discs are
> available only in relatively small numbers. We'll fill orders at current
> prices as we receive them.
>
> Tell us your address (including email) and phone numbers, and where you'd
> like the discs shipped (if it's different from your mailing address).
>
> Please pay in advance. You can calculate the amount of your payment as
> follows:
>
> 1. Add together the prices of the discs you'd like to buy. If you're a
> member of the INNER CIRCLE, take a 10% discount from the sum. If you're a
> member of ICMA or SEAMUS, take a 5% discount from the sum. Discounts are not
> cumulative.
>
> 2. Then add the appropriate amount for shipping (priority mail) and
> handling. If a disc is listed in the format LO-100, for example, count it as
> one disc for shipping. If there's an extra number at the end, as in
> "ST-100-3," for example -- the "3" at the end means that for shipping
> purposes, the package should be counted as three discs. Use the following
> table to calculate shipping/handling costs:
>
> North America & Mexico: First disc $2.00, each additional disc $1.00.
> South America: First disc $3.00, each additional disc $1.50.
> Europe: First disc $4.00, each additional disc $2.00.
> Asia/Australasia: First disc $5.00, each additional disc $2.50.
>
> 3. Then, if you live in New York State, add 8% sales tax to the total. (New
> York State requires that we also charge sales tax on shipping and handling
> charges.)
>
> We accept credit cards (Mastercard and VISA). We also accept checks, bank
> drafts and money orders -- but only in US$, drawn on a US bank.
>
> If you're paying by credit card, we need your name (as it appears on the
> card), your card number, the expiration date of the card, and your billing
> address and phone number (in case we need to contact you). Please give us
> credit card information by fax, phone, or regular mail, (rather than email)
> to protect the confidentiality of your information. After you've provided us
> with your credit card information, you can email your orders -- and just tell
> us to charge your card.
>
> Place your order by --
>
> Email to: eMusc@aol.com
> Fax to: (518) 434-0308
> Telephone to: (518) 434-4110
> Hard mail and carrier pigeon to: eMUSIC, 116 North Lake Avenue, Albany NY
> 12206, USA
>
>
> =============================== ABOUT eMUSIC
>
> eMUSIC is a worldwide service that gives you easy, direct-mail access to one
> of the most comprehensive selections of compact discs of experimental,
> exceptional, and/or electronic music. Wherever you live, eMUSIC brings you
> CDs that may be hard to find, discs published by small companies or
> independent composers or performers, even recordings you may not have known
> existed.
>
> How does it work? Different eMUSIC catalogs are circulated in different
> media. If you're on our email list, we'll send you a brief catalog of
> selected discs every few weeks. If you're on our hard-mail list, we'll send
> you a catalog of selected discs every season. If you have access to the
> World Wide Web, you'll find (as of this fall), an up-to-date list our
> offerings on our Home Page. Let us know how you'd prefer to receive our
> information.
>
> However you receive them, you'll find our eMUSIC catalogs filled with
> electronic music history, unusual sounds, new ways of combining words and
> music, new approaches to improvisation, computer music, interactive music,
> portraits of composers, interpreters of 20th-century...and more! Our goal is
> to make available every disc of experimental, exceptional, and electronic
> music.
>
> =============================== ABOUT THE INNER CIRCLE
>
> If you're serious about all this, consider joining the INNER CIRCLE. You'll
> receive:
>
> - A ten percent discount on all disc purchases.
> - Special INNER CIRCLE disc offers.
> - Free access to our search and special-order service.
>
> If you're a music professional, there are other benefits as well. Ask about
> them.
>
> eMUSIC is a program of Electronic Music Foundation (EMF). A not-for-profit
> organization in New York State, USA, EMF exists to disseminate information
> and materials related to the history and development of electronic music.
>
> To join the eMUSIC INNER CIRCLE, make a one-time gift of $100 to EMF. If you
> act now, you'll also become a Charter Subscriber to EMF.
>
> =====================================================
>
> eMUSIC and Inner Circle are trademarks of Electronic Music Foundation, Inc.
>
> Electronic Music Foundation
> 116 North Lake Avenue
> Albany NY 12206
> USA
> Voice: (518) 434-4110
> Fax: (518) 434-0308
> email: eMusF@aol.com
>
> ####
>
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:51:16 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: eMUSIC SPECIALS (fwd)
& here's a last eMUSIC cat with info --pierre
Forwarded message:
> From Emusc@aol.com Mon Dec 18 21:50:05 1995
> From: Emusc@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:36:01 -0500
> Message-ID: <951218183555_57763936@emout06.mail.aol.com>
> To: Emfnet@aol.com
> Subject: eMUSIC SPECIALS
>
>
> WELCOME TO eMUSIC!
> =============================== December 1995
> SPECIAL OFFERS... AND A TRIBUTE.
>
> Read below for HOW TO ORDER and other information.
>
> Coming next in January: 'Discs I have Known and Loved' by Warren Burt. And a
> special listing of many wonderful new discs to start the New Year.
>
>
> =============================== A TRIBUTE
> SALVATORE MARTIRANO: 1927-1995
>
> Martirano's music is wonderful, powerful. One hears the liveliness of jazz,
> the lyricism of Italian opera, the cutting edge of an extraordinary
> intelligence and talent. He was also a pioneer -- the Sal-Mar Construction
> was one of the earliest of the interactive instruments and quite an
> incredible invention. Here are two CDs with his music.
>
> A SALVATORE MARTIRANO RETROSPECTIVE: 1962-92
> This disc includes the 'Sal-Mar Construction' (1972), an amazing interactive
> instrument built by Martirano and others at the University of Illinois
> between 1969 and 1972. Also: 'Underworld' (1965), for actors, percussion,
> electronics, sax; 'L's G.A.' (1968) for gassed-masked politico, helium bomb,
> and sounds on tape; 'SATBehind Demo' (1992), which combine the Kyma system
> with Martirano's SAL (Sound And Logic) software; and other pieces. CDCM.
> (=> eMUSIC #CE-124: ordered individually, $16)
>
> SOUND ENCOUNTERS
> Performances by the Cleveland Chamber Symphony conducted by Edwin London,
> including Salvatore Martirano's 'LON/Dons' (1989) for chamber orchestra and
> saxophone, the solo performed here by Howie Smith, saxophonist. It's a
> powerful piece, composed, according to the liner notes, "by means of an
> unusual combination of computer programs, improvisation at the keyboard and
> 'premeditated composition.'" Also on the disc: Libby Larsen's 'What the
> Monster Saw' (1987), Bernard Rands' 'London Serenade' (1988), and Roger
> Reynolds' 'The Dream of Infinite Rooms' (1986). GM.
> (=> eMUSIC #GM-100: ordered individually, $16)
>
> => eMUSIC #SL-100: BOTH MARTIRANO DISCS FOR $28
>
>
> =============================== DEEP LISTENING
>
> Pauline Oliveros' new label called Deep Listening is off to a great start
> with three very different and stunning discs. If this group indicates things
> to come, we can look forward to another fine source for CDs of new music.
>
> JOEL CHADABE: AFTER SOME SONGS
> Chadabe uses Intelligent Music's M software and improvises with Jan Williams
> playing percussion, Bruno Spoerri playing saxophone, and Reto Weber playing
> udu drums and other instruments. The compositions are mostly abstractions of
> jazz classics. For example, 'Valentine' is based on 'My Funny Valentine',
> 'Echoes of Brazil' is based on 'Corcovado', 'Elusive Lady' is based on
> 'Stella By Starlight', and more. The sounds are beautiful, agreeable, smooth,
> as Chadabe puts it, "a lyrical surface to an underlying complexity." Deep
> Listening.
> (=> eMUSIC #DL-100: ordered individually, $16)
>
> R.I.P. HAYMAN: ON THE WAY...
> This is a reflective, quiet, peaceful, somewhat mysterious yet always
> arresting sound process. Hayman calls it "a contemplative environment." John
> Cage, listening to it in 1991 in Hayman's studio, said "It is very beautiful
> what I am hearing now." It is about a near-death experience. In Hayman's
> words: "How does death sound? Do our senses survive our passing? Can we hear
> eternity?" Deep Listening.
> (=> eMUSIC #DL-101: ordered individually, $16)
>
> TOSCA SALAD
> The Deep Listening Band strikes again with a "tossed salad of a CD," a
> variety of free improvisations recorded at various concerts. The Band's
> regular members are Pauline Oliveros playing accordion, David Gamper playing
> piano and organ, Stuart Dempster playing trombone and dijeridu, and everyone
> playing with the Expanded Instrument System, a sound-transformation system
> developed by Oliveros and associates through the years. In the improvisations
> on this disc, the Band's guest artists include Julie Lyon Rose, voice; Fritz
> Hauser, percussion; Urs Leimgruber, saxophone; Ben Neill, mutantrumpet; Joe
> McPhee, reeds, pocket trumpet; Joe Giardullo, reeds, flute; and Ellen
> Fullman, Nigel Jacobs, and Elise Gould, members of the Long String Instrument
> Band. Deep Listening.
> (=> eMUSIC #DL-102: ordered individually, $16)
>
> => eMUSIC #SL-101: ALL THREE DEEP LISTENING DISCS FOR $39
>
>
> =============================== FREDERIC RZEWSKI
>
> Rzewski is one of the world's finest pianists and most interesting composers.
> Here is a special offering from O.O. Discs.
>
> A DECADE: ZEITGEIST PLAYS RZEWSKI
> A ten year collaboration by the virtuoso ensemble Zeitgeist and the American
> composer Frederic Rzewski has resulted in four provocative works including
> 'Spots', 'Wails', 'The Lost Melody' and the sixty-five, 15 second pieces of
> 'Crusoe'. All World Premiere Recordings. O.O.
> (=> eMUSIC #OO-113: ordered individually, $16)
>
> FREDERIC RZEWSKI: THE PIANO MUSIC
> Pianist Anthony DeMare presents four works spanning 15 years of Rzewski's
> piano writing, including 'Winnesboro Cotton Mill Blues', 'Piano Pieces No.
> IV', 'Piano Sonata', and the recent 'De Profundis', composed for DeMare. OO.
> (=> eMUSIC #OO-114: ordered individually, $16)
>
> THE PEOPLE UNITED WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED
> A rare Japanese import of what many critics consider to be the classic
> recording of one of Rzewski's most noted works. This solo piano work is
> performed by Yuji Takahashi piano and includes the complete 36 variations on
> 'iEl Pueblo Unido Jamas Sera Vencido' impeccably recorded by Yukio Kojima.
> OO Import.
> (=> eMUSIC #OO-124: ordered individually, $19)
>
> => eMUSIC #SL-102: ALL THREE RZEWSKI DISCS FOR $39
>
> =============================== HOW TO ORDER
>
> Contact eMUSICx by email, fax, regular mail, or telephone, with a list of the
> CDs you'd like to buy. Bear in mind that certain prices may change and that
> some discs are available only in relatively small numbers. We'll fill orders
> at current prices as we receive them.
>
> Tell us your address (including email) and phone numbers, and where you'd
> like the discs shipped.
>
> Please pay in advance. You can calculate the amount of your payment as
> follows:
>
> 1. Add together the prices of the discs you'd like to buy. INNER CIRCLE
> subscribers, take a 10% discount from the sum. ICMA or SEAMUS members, take a
> 5% discount from the sum. Discounts are not cumulative.
>
> 2. Then add the appropriate amount for shipping (priority mail) and
> handling. If a disc is listed in the format LO-100, for example, count it as
> one disc for shipping. If there's an extra number at the end, as in
> "ST-100-3," for example -- the "3" at the end means that for shipping
> purposes, the package should be counted as three discs. Use the following
> table to calculate shipping/handling costs:
>
> North America & Mexico: First disc $2.00, each additional disc $1.00.
> South America: First disc $3.00, each additional disc $1.50.
> Europe: First disc $4.00, each additional disc $2.00.
> Asia/Australasia: First disc $5.00, each additional disc $2.50.
>
> 3. If you live in New York State, add 8% sales tax to the total. (New York
> State requires that we also charge sales tax on shipping and handling
> charges.)
>
> We accept credit cards (Mastercard and VISA). We also accept checks, bank
> drafts and money orders -- but only in US$, drawn on a US bank. If you're
> paying by credit card, we need your name (as it appears on the card), your
> card number, expiration date, and your billing address and phone number (in
> case we need to contact you). Please give us credit card information by fax,
> phone, or regular mail (rather than email) to protect the confidentiality of
> your information. Then you can email your orders -- and just tell us to
> charge your card.
>
> Email to: eMUSC@aol.com
> Fax to: (518) 434-0308
> Telephone to: (518) 434-4110
> Hard mail and carrier pigeon to: eMUSICx, 116 North Lake Avenue, Albany NY
> 12206, USA
>
> =============================== ABOUT eMUSIC
>
> eMUSICx is a worldwide service that gives you easy, direct-mail access to one
> of the most comprehensive selections of compact discs of experimental,
> exceptional, and/or electronic music. Wherever you live, eMUSIC brings you
> CDs that may be hard to find, discs published by small companies or
> independent composers or performers, even recordings you may not have known
> existed.
>
> eMUSICx catalogs are circulated via email, hard-mail list, and (very soon)
> the World Wide Web. Let us know how you'd prefer to receive information. And
> if you're serious about this, please consider joining the INNER CIRCLE.
> You'll receive discounts on disc purchases, INNER CIRCLE disc offers, and
> other benefits. To join the eMUSIC INNER CIRCLE, make a one-time
> tax-deductible gift of $100 to Electronic Music Foundation (EMF).
>
> eMUSICx is a program of EMF. A not-for-profit organization in New York
> State, USA, EMF exists to disseminate information and materials related to
> the history and development of electronic music. Contact us for more
> information.
>
> ===============================
> eMUSIC and Inner Circle are trademarks of Electronic Music Foundation, Inc.
>
> Electronic Music Foundation
> 116 North Lake Avenue
> Albany NY 12206
> USA
>
> Voice: (518) 434-4110
> Fax: (518) 434-0308
> Email: EMusF@aol.com
>
> ###
>
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:07:33 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Marjorie Perloff <perloff@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 21 Dec 1995 to 22 Dec 1995
In-Reply-To: <199512230505.AAA07761@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Hank Lazer reminds me that everyone on this list who will be at MLA
should visit various booths and reminds the people there how many of us
are interested in the poetry/poetics they publish. Nicole Mitchell at
Alabama is terrific. At Northwestern, ask for Susan Harris; she is the
editor who is publishing Hank's own book, Bruce Andrews's essays, and
yours truly's reissue of DANCE OF THE INTELLECT and has worked with me on
other projects (Poetic License and Poetics of Indeterminacy). Alan
Thomas at Chicago is very much interested in new poetries/poetics. Damon
Kruzowksi will be there at Exact Change (has a booth this year) and Doug
Messerli will have a Sun & Moon booth. New Directions, distributed by
Norton, not only has a booth but there's the Norton Party 6.30-8.30 in
the State Room, Level Two at the Fairmont Hotel--that's on the 28th. New
Directions is bringing out Susan Howe's new book among other things.
So: we can all run around the book exhibit and meet one another!
Marjorie Perloff
PS: I forgot Wesleyan, Irene McWilliam is the point person and of course
they've just published Joan Retallack's wonderful MUSICAGE, Leslie
Scalapino etc etc.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:49:39 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Aldon L. Nielsen" <anielsen@ISC.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Season's Gratings
In-Reply-To: <199512230505.AAA07761@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Along with all that good reading mentioned here, let me here mention an
enjoyable collection of songs --
_Bummed Out Christmas_ from Rhino Records
get the CD,,, it has more songs than the tape --
Includes such memorable delights as "Santa Got a DWI," "Christmas in
Jail," and "Chritmas Eve Can Kill You"
a perfect antidote to Bill Moyers's poetry shows
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 23:22:22 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Stephen Galen Cope <scope@UCSCB.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Season's Gratings
In league w/ Aldon's recommendation:
Max Roach put out a recording last year on Soul Note
records (Italy) that features, among other things, the
poetry (or Roach's adapted versions of the poetry) of
Bruce McMarion Wright. Wright was also a fairly well-
known judge in NYC in the 70-80's -- particularly be-
cause of his vociferous and active advocacy of Black
and Hispanic rights and rights for the poor...
Anyway, the disk features a performance of Wright's
"It's Christmas Again" which is absolutely stunning,
accompanied by Roach's percussion, Odean Pope on tenor
and voice, Cecil Bridgewater on trumpet, and Tyrone
Brown on bass. The disk is called "It's Christmas Again"
and is certainly worth checking out...
Best of holiday cheer (and good conferencing to those at
MLA...
-Stephen Cope
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 22:43:01 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: Re: Ted Berrigan
Libbie,
In case you're not familiar with it, _Talking In Tranquility: Interviews
with Ted Berrigan_ (eds. Stephen Ratcliffe and Leslie Scalapino, Avenue B /
O Press) should prove useful.
>I'm beginning work on a dissertation chapter on Ted Berrigan and Frank
>O'Hara and wondering if anyone out there is currently working on
>Berrigan. Beyond the "Nice to See You" homage collection, a great short
>piece by
>Barrett Watten and an article by Joel Lewis, I haven't found much writing
>on Berrigan's poetry. "Nice to See You" is composed mostly of memoirs
>(Charles Berstein's "Writing Against the Body" is a notable exception). The
>fact that memoir is still the dominant mode of commentary on these two
>poets, and perhaps the "New York School" in general, seems relevant in
>itself. But what about the poetry?
>
>Has Berrigan already been discussed in this forum? I'm new to the list and
>would like to hear what people are doing.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 08:15:21 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: MB: Levinas (fwd)
This sad note just in -- havent been able to verify it either -- more
as I find out -- Pierre
Forwarded message:
> From owner-blanchot@jefferson.village.virginia.edu Tue Dec 26 07:53:40 1995
> Message-Id: <v01530505ad059725beba@[194.51.80.178]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 13:17:16 +0100
> To: blanchot@jefferson.village.virginia.edu
> From: Daniel Kern <dkern@teaser.fr>
> Subject: MB: Levinas
> Sender: owner-blanchot@jefferson.village.virginia.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: blanchot@jefferson.village.virginia.edu
>
> It seems that Levinas died yesterday. I haven't seen the paper yet; I'll
> let you know what it says.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 12:48:26 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Levinas
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9512171413.G539141466-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Charles Bernstein" at Dec 17, 95 02:17:36 pm
Clipped from the French on-line news service (sorry, no time for
translation) --Pierre
"Autre deces celui du philosophe francais Emmanuel Levinas, mort a
l'age de 90 ans ce lundi matin. Inspire par la philopsophie
d'Heidegger et d'Husserl, Emmanuel Levinas enseigna aux univer-
sites de Poitiers puis de Nanterre. Ce grand penseur du judaisme
moderne dirigea avec son epouse l'Ecole normale israelite orien-
tale de Paris."
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 14:01:35 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Levinas
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9512171413.G539141466-0100000@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
from "Charles Bernstein" at Dec 17, 95 02:17:36 pm
The French newspaper LIBERATION reproduced the following piece by
Maurice Blanchot in today's edition, as hommage to Levinas. (Again,
sorry, but no time for translation) -- Pierre
_Levinas vu par Blanchot_
Extrait de Notre Compagne clandestine, que Maurice Blanchot ecrivit
pour son ami dans _Textes pour Emmanuel Levinas_, paru in 1980
(Jean-Michel Place Editeur):
"Tous, honteusement, glorieusement. Philosophes, nous le sommes tous,
honteusement, glorieusement, par abus, par defaut et surtout en
soumettant le philosophique (terme choisi pour eviter l'emphase de la
philosophie) a une mise en question si radicale qu'il faut toute la
philosophie pour la soutenir. Mais j'ajouterai [...] que, des que
j'ai rencontre--rencontre heureuse, au sens le plus fort--, il
y a plus de cinquante ans, Emmanuel Levinas, c'est avec une sorte
d'evidence que je me suis persuade que la philosophie etait la
vie meme, la jeunesse meme, dans sa passion demesuree, cependant
raisonnable, se renouvelant sans cesse ou soudainement par l'eclat
de pensees toutes nouvelles, enigmatiques, ou de noms encore inconnus
qui brilleraient plus tard prodigieusement. La philosophie serait
notre compagne a jamais, de jour, de nuit, fut-ce en perdant son nom,
devenant litterature, savoir, non-savoir, ou s'absentant, notre amie
clandestine dont nous respections--aimions--ce qui ne nous permettait
pas d'etre lies e elle, tout en pressentant qu'il n'y avait rien
d'eveille en nous, de vigilant juque dans le sommeil, qui ne fut
du a son amitie difficile.
... philosophie ou l'amitie. Mais la philosophie n'est precisement
pas une allegorie [...]."
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 23:02:19 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Emmanuel Levinas (1905-1995) [Reuters]
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 22:18:14 -0500
From: Ben Friedlander <V080L3NP@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
> From: C-reuters@clari.net (Reuters)
> Subject: Levinas dead, hailed among greatest philosophers
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 7:10:32 PST
>
> PARIS (Reuter) - The World Jewish Congress Tuesday paid
> tribute to French Jewish philosopher Emmanuel Levinas who died
> earlier this week at the age of 90.
> It hailed the Lithuanian-born writer as one of the greatest
> contemporary philosophers who ``never ceased to pursue his quest
> for a world morale following the Holocaust.''
> Levinas died Monday in Paris of an heart ailment.
> Born in 1905 in Lithuania, he lived in Ukraine at the time
> of the Soviet revolution and later studied in Germany and taught
> in France, combining German, Russian, French and Jewish
> cultures.
> His mentors were Germans Edmund Husserl and Martin Heidegger
> and Israeli Martin Buber. His main work was ``Totality and
> Infinity,'' published in 1961.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:20:45 -0500
Reply-To: BERNSTEI@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <BERNSTEI@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Welcome to Poetics (revised)
I usually send this "welcome" message out to each new Poetics subscriber,
but I have fallen behind in the past weeks, so I am sending it out to the
whole list as it may be useful to a few others as well. (There are
currently 297 Poetics subscribers.) This welcome message is posted at
the EPC "poetics" page. (I've also recently posted the syllabi from my
graduate seminars on the EPC; you can find them through my "author" page
or at "poeitcs".)
Let me remind you all, once again, to post information on your
recent books and other publications, including ones you have edited.
Please include full ordering information including address and price.
%&*^%^&$^%#HAPPY%&%^&#@!$!$%#$^*%&*(_ NEW ~<>?":"{}{}++_(YEAR!&(&*^&%&%&^$%$
Rev. 12-19-95
____________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Poetics List
&
The Electronic Poetry Center
at the State University of New York - Buffalo
____________________________________________________________________
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
____________________________________________________________________
_______Contents___________
1. About the Poetics List
2. Subscriptions
3. Who's Subscribed
4. Digest Option
5. When you'll be away
6. Archives of the Poetics List
7. To Subscribe to RIF/T
8. Interfaces, HTML, URL
9. The Electronic Poetry Center (EPC)
10. How to Reach the EPC
11. Poetics Archives at EPC
12. Publishers & Editors Read This!
_______________________________
Appendix I: Some Links via EPC
Appendix II: Archives (Alternate)
[This document was prepared by Charles Bernstein (bernstei@ubvms.cc.buffalo.
edu) and Loss Pequen~o Glazier (lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu).]
____________________________________________________________________
1. About the Poetics List
Please note that this is a private list and information about the list
should not be posted to other lists or directories of lists. The idea
is to keep the list to those with specific rather than general
interests, and also to keep the scale of the list small and the volume
managable. Word-of-mouth (and its electronic equivalents) seems to be
working fine: please feel free to invite people you know to sign-up.
It is easier for me if they sign-up by themselves AND send me
(bernstei@ubvms) a note telling me how they heard about the list. I
will send them *this* document in reply. Please contact Charles
Bernstein (the "listowner") if you have any questions about this policy.
____________________________________________________________________
2. Subscriptions
The list has open subscriptions. You can subscribe (sub) or
unsubscribe (unsub) by sending a one-line message, with no subject
line, to:
listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
the one-line message should say:
unsub poetics
{or}
sub poetics Jill Jillway
(replacing Jill Jillway with your own name; but note: do not use your
name to unsub)
I will be sent a notice of all subscription activity.
____________________________________________________________________
3. Who's Subscribed
To see who is subscribed to Poetics, send an e-mail message to
listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu; leave the "Subject" line of the e-mail message
blank. In the body of your e-mail message type:
review poetics
THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO GET CURRENT ADDRESS!
____________________________________________________________________
4. Digest Option
The Poetics List can send a large number of individual messages to
your account to each day! If you would prefer to receive ONE message
each day, which would include all messages posted to the list for that
day, you can now use the digest option:
Send this one-line message (no subject line) to
listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
set poetics digest
NOTE:!! Send this message to "listserv" not to Poetics or as a reply
to this message!!
You can switch back to individual messages by sending this messagage:
set poetics mail
____________________________________________________________________
5. When you'll be away
You can temporarily turn off your mail by sending a message:
set poetics nomail
& turn it on again with: set poetics mail
____________________________________________________________________
6. Archives of the Poetics List
There are two ways to get archives. The easiest way is to use the
archives of the list at the Electronic Poetry Center (EPC), for which
see section 11 below. The other is described in Appendix II.
____________________________________________________________________
7. To Subscribe to RIF/T
To subscribe to RIF/T, the e-poetry magazine at UB's Poetics Program:
Send an e-mail message to listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu. Leave
the "Subject" line of the e-mail message blank. In the body of
your e-mail message type:
subscribe e-poetry John Milton
replacing your real name for "John Milton"
You will receive a confirmation of your subscription soon thereafter.
Note: RIF/T is also available via the Electronic Poetry
Center. Increasingly it is a richer experience to read RIF/T online
because, at the EPC, it features hypertextual links, weaving related
and disparate texts, hypertextual chapbooks, and graphical (and sound)
files that cannot be mailed in ascii form. Mailing of ascii versions
is continued through subscription; it is a good way to stay in touch
since subscribers receive Tables of Contents and other RIF/T
information, as well as some texts. Suscribers to RIF/T also receive
the occasionally-issued _EPC.News_, the Electronic Poetry Center
newsletter.
____________________________________________________________________
8. Interfaces, HTML, URL (EPC Preface)
Before describing the resources of the EPC and how to gain access to
it, it is useful to understand a few Internet concepts.
8.1 Interface
The Web can be access through an ascii or a graphical interface. An
ascii interface provides access through _screens_ of information with
links to other areas appearing as highlighted text; Mosaic is a
graphical interface basically superimposed on the Web structure that
offers images, sound, video, and allows you to use your mouse as a
navigational tool. The EPC is accessible through any of these
interfaces. It is presently evolving strongly towards exclusive
Web/Mosaic access.
Even as activities converge, it is also the time of divergent
interfaces. I am often surprised by the number of our contributors and
participants who do not even have gopher access. Most people, we
figure, have some sort of Web access.
8.2 HTML
The standard for Web/Mosaic documents is the markup protocol called
html. These are imbedded codes that you will see once in a while when
you download an html document. These codes give instructions to the
software about highlighting, fonts, and screen layout, as well as
providing for the _hot links_ that make possible Web/Mosaic
navigation.
8.3 URL
A URL, a "uniform resource locator," is to the Internet what a social
security number is to a person. In a web/mosaic interace, the "go to
URL" option will specify a specific and unique Internet address for
you to go to.
____________________________________________________________________
9. What is the Electronic Poetry Center?
The mission of this World-Wide Web based electronic poetry center is
to serve as a hypertextual gateway to the extraordinary range of
activity in formally innovative writing in the United States and the
world. The Center provides access to numerous electronic resources in
the new poetries including RIF/T and other electronic poetry journals,
the POETICS List archives, an AUTHOR library of electronic poetic
texts, and direct connections to numerous related electronic
RESOURCES. For texts housed at the Electronic Poetry Center, texts are
"definitive" texts inasmuch as, prior to posting, they have been
approved by their producers. JOURNALS distributed by the EPC include:
DIU / Albany
EPC.News / Buffalo
Experioddi(cyber)cist / Florence, AL
Inter\face / Albany, NY
Passages: A Technopoetics Journal / Albany, NY
Poemata - Canadian Poetry Assoc. / London, Ontario (Info)/
RIF/T: Electronic Space for New Poetry, Prose, & Poetics / Buffalo
Segue Foundation/Roof Book News / New York
TREE: TapRoot Electronic Edition / Lakewood, Ohio
We Magazine / Santa Cruz
Witz / Studio City, CA
The Center also provides information about contemporary print little
magazines and SMALL PRESSES engaged in poetry and poetics. The Poetry
& Poetics DOCUMENT Archive provides access to a number of documents of
use to poets, teachers, and researchers. Here you will find essay
material and recent obituaries. The EPC also presently offers GALLERY,
SOUND, EXHIBITS, and an ANNOUNCEMENTS area.
The Electronic Poetry Center is administered by Loss Glazier and
Kenneth Sherwood in collaboration with Charles Bernstein. If you have
comments or suggestions about sites to be added to the Center, do not
hesitate to contact Loss Pequen~o Glazier, lolpoet@ acsu.buffalo.edu
or Kenneth Sherwood, e-poetry@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
____________________________________________________________________
10. How to reach the EPC
Via the World-Wide Web, the Center can be reached at
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc (no spaces in the address)
Check with your system administrator if you have problems with access.
Also ask about setting a "bookmark" through your system for quick and
easy access to the Center when you invoke your interface.
____________________________________________________________________
11. Poetics Archives via EPC
Go to the EPC and select Poetics from the opening screen. Follow the
links to Poetics Archives. You may browse the archives by month and
year or search them for specific information. Your interface will
allow you to print or download any of these files.
____________________________________________________________________
12. Publishers & Editors Read This!
PUBLISHERS & EDITORS: Our listings of poetry and poetics information
is open and available to you. We are trying to make access to printed
publications as easy as possible to our users and ENCOURAGE you to
participate! Send a list of your press/publications to
lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu with the words EPC Press Listing in the
subject line. You may also send materials on disk. Though files marked
up with html are our goal, ascii files are perfectly acceptable.
Send us extended information on new publications (including any back cover copy
and sample poems) as well as complete catalogs/backlists (including excerpts
from reviews, sample poems, etc.). Be sure to include full information for
ordering--including prices and addresses and phone numbers both of the press
and any distributors.
Initially, you might want to send short anouncements of new publications
directly to the Poetics list as subscribers do not always (or ever) check the
EPC; in your message please include full information for ordering. If you have
a fuller listing at EPC, you might also mention that in any Poetics posts.
____________________________________________________________________
Appendix I: Some Links Provided by the EPC
Alternative-X
Basil Bunting Poetry Centre (Durham, England)
[Informational]
Best-Quality Audio Web Poems (Rhode Island)
Carma Bums 'Tour of Words'
CICNET Electronic Journal Archive
Institute for Advanced Technology in the Humanities
(Virginia)
Internet Poetry Archive (North Carolina)
Michigan Electronic Text Archive
Nous Refuse Discussion List (Illinois)
Postmodern Culture (North Carolina)
Whole Earth 'Lectronic Magazine
____________________________________________________________________
Appendix II: Alternate Method for Receiving Poetics Archives
You may also receive Poetics archives by e-mail, though the language
is somewhat arcane.
To receive postings for a particular month, for example, send an
e-mail message to listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
leave the subject line of the message blank and in the body of the
message type:
get poetics.log9505 f=mail
Replace 95 (two digits) with the year and 05 (two digits) for the
month you seek.
For a complete list of available back files, send the message
index poetics f=mail
____________________________________________________________________
END OF POETICS LIST WELCOME
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 17:02:11 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Chris Stroffolino <LS0796@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Season's Gratings
In response to aldon's post---
I remember this kinda classic-punk sounding song called
"Christmas In reverse"---
Does anyody know who did it? Or where I could find it?
Thanks, chris stroffolino
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:07:41 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: James Perez <jmp2p@UVA.PCMAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject: O books?
read somewhere about Leslie Scalapino being involved with a press called O
books that publishes young innovative types
its not listed in EPC's group of Small Presses
anyone know where I can get some info? a catalogue?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:25:16 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Eryque Gleason <gleaeri@CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: O books?
James,
from the innards of _Values Chauffeur You_ by Andrew Levy, from O Books and
well worth the read...
O Books
5729 Clover Drive
Oakland, CA 94618
It also lists SPD as a distributor 1814 San Pablo Avenue, Berkeley, CA 94702
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 04:42:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: O books?
<<read somewhere about Leslie Scalapino being involved with a press called O
books that publishes young innovative types
its not listed in EPC's group of Small Presses
anyone know where I can get some info? a catalogue?>>
James Perez
James:
O Press titles are carried by Small Press Distribution:
1814 San Pablo Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94702-1624.
(510) 549-3336, Fax (510) 549-2201.
I believe the address for the press is still:
5729 Clover Drive
Oakland, CA 94618
Some of my favorite O titles include Pat Reed's _Kismet_, Bob Grenier's
_Phantom Anthems_, Danielle Colbert's _It Then_ (trans. by Norma Cole), Ben
Friedlander's _Time Rations_, Ted Pearson's _Catenary Odes_, Aaron Shurin's
_A's Dream_, Ted Berrigan's _A Certain Slant Of Light_, Norman Fischer's
_Turn Left In Order To Turn Right_, & Jerry Ratch's _Light_. Others no doubt
wd have a different list...
good luck & enjoy!
Charles Smith
ps... almost forgot the recently issued Alice Notley, _Close To Me &
Closer... (The Language Of Heaven) and Desamere_ which is still buried unread
under stacks of books, but what I've heard her reading the past year, which
was terrific, was I believe from this mss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 05:05:29 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: O books?
>read somewhere about Leslie Scalapino being involved with a press called O
>books that publishes young innovative types
>
>its not listed in EPC's group of Small Presses
>
>anyone know where I can get some info? a catalogue?
O Books
5729 Clover Dr.
Oakland CA 94618
(also dist. by SPD...)
recent releases include _Memory Play_ by Carla Harryman, _MOB_
by Abigail Child, & _Collision Center_ by Randall Potts. backlist
includes the occasional O anthology series (4 so far, i think)
edited by Leslie Scalapino; 2 Berrigan titles (his final
collection _A Certain Slant of Sunlight, and _Talking in Tranquility,
a collection of interviews) recently asked after; and books by
Jessica Grim, Ben Friedlander, Norman Fisher, Alan Davies, Fanny
Howe, Camile Roy, &&...
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:28:23 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Janet S. Gray" <JSGRAY@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject: My book/Critical Matrix (journal)
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:06:03 -0500 from
<LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Responding to Charles's reminder to post notices of our own
publications here:
My book, _A Hundred Flowers_ (Thumbscrew Press, 1993), is somewhat old
news by now but is available for $11.95 from Small Press Distribution.
I want to let you all know too about a journal for which I'm currently
managing editor - _Critical Matrix: The Princeton Journal of Women,
Gender, and Culture_. It publishes one or two groupings of poems
in most issues, alongside scholarly and creative/critical prose
across several disciplines. We're currently collecting submissions
for a special issue titled "(M)Other Nature" - subtopics including
ecofeminism, reproductive technologies, sci fi, borderlands between
the natural and the technological. Deadline is March 1.
Submissions to Editors, Critical Matrix, Program in Women's Studies,
113 Dickinson Hall, Princeton University, Princeton NJ 08544.
If you'd like to see a sample copy, e-mail me personally and I'll
see you get one.
_Critical Matrix_ is edited by graduate students & over the past
several years we've been working hard to make it a 'real' journal,
to establish identity & continuity in spite of the fact that editors
serve only one to two-year terms. The journal's identity has
coalesced most vividly around issues of disciplinarity - looking
for work that explores/challenges disciplinary boundaries or
falls outside established boundaries. The labors of four generations
of grad student editors just got the pay-off of an award from the
Council of Editors of Learned Journals.
Janet Gray
jsgray@pucc.princeton.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 17:19:44 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Larry Price <Lppl@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: O books
I would also recommend the random eye stay alert for O's forthcoming IN
MEMORY OF MY THEORIES, by that parrhesiast-in-the-seat-of-lies, Rod Smith.
Even through the fog of typesetting (and the difficulties of reading a text
while designing and setting it are legion), I already love this book, playful
and utterly serious. The titles alone keep me up at night. The vagaries of
designers being what they are, nonetheless IN MEMORY should be out well in
advance of Super Tuesday. Which is, I'm sure, exactly what Mr. Smith had in
mind.
lp
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 11:11:15 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bill Luoma <Maz881@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: O books
did git a super tuesday preview of m. smiths ms. myself and predict from this
seat that it will go out of print in a hurry because lots of people will want
to read it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 11:23:06 -0500
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Gary Sullivan?
if anybody has a current email &/or smail address fr gary,
could you backchannel 'em to me? seems to have got lost in
the shuffle...
luigi
au462@cleveland.freenet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:58:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dick Higgins <dhiggins@MHV.NET>
Subject: WEB POETRY, RESTRUCTURING LANGUAGE ARTS DEPARTMENTS
Comments: cc: dhiggins@csbh.mhv.net
31. December, 1995
Nice to see the POETICS network's so quiet. Gives a body time to ruminate
and then say what one has been thinking of.
With me it is two things:
1) On the poetics network I would have thought I would see speculations on
the present state of literature instead of this constant assertion that
this or that is a fine book. Try this: we have seen many explanations of
the mess in our literary publishing-high paper costs, poor distribution, a
declining economic base of independent stores, lack of widely read news
media coverage, etc. With thirty million people or so on the web and
capable of getting e-mail and the number growing towards perhaps a
quadrupling of that number, e-mail publishing and e-zines are bound to
become a more significant factor than they have been, since putting up a
web site is cheap. Furthermore, many of those who might otherwise buy books
are now buying hardware and software to get onto the web, so that a
downturn in book sales can and must be expected at least short term, that
aggravating an already difficult situation for the serious book-selling and
book-publishing public. We who are "on-line" can access a good site and
print out what we like, thus providing ourselves almost for free with good
reading matter (assuming one does not wish to read on the screen itself).
Leaving aside for now the related questions of how to pay and support the
publisher and writer, one wonders what are some characteristics of works
which function well on the web?
For example, time seems to behave differently in web poems than in
on-paper ones. One is impatient to download, one must read in two stages-do
I like this text enough to download it, and now I can see it, do I want to
keep it? I worry about the cost of being connected to my server (the
economic angle), and I can only see one screen-ful at a time. How does
poetic language (including visual-poetic language) function in such a
context?
With TTS (="text to sound") becoming ever more sophisticated and
less expensive, therefore more available, the silent web has already begun
to be replaced by the talking web. Already I have been invited to submit
poetry by myself and my Left Hand Books friends to a "poetry reading on the
web." If such a site can be seen in France, Thailand and Brazil, what does
this do to the very concept of national literatures? Is it a form of
cultural imperialism or is it a force for building the world literary
community? Or both? What will all this mean to us as writers, scholars and
thinking human beings?
2) On our POETICS NETWORK there is so much academic professionalistic
babble that I've found it hard to think about poetics. It has also made me
think, as I haven't in years, about how in an ideal world the education of
people in our language arts would be structured. Try this: scrap all
English and Comp Lit departments. Create two other kinds of departments in
their place: Departments of Literature and Literary History (parallel to
those in Art and Art History) and Departments of Language Skills (for
linguistics, technical, journalistic, English for non-native speakers,
basic grammars and remedial writing, etc.). Such a reorganization would
allow for the clearing out of the dead wood, retaining the vital and
ultimately serve the students and public far better and more realistically
than the present set of assumptions does. For example, the present system
sets up too many boundaries among English, other languages and social
structures in our literary canons. The real world knows no such bounds.
Goethe's dictum that "All literature is world literature" applies,
especially now. I can read German poems, medieval texts, works by women and
blacks, works with which I do not agree and so on and make of them my own;
under the present structures, were I to be in academia, I could not share
my thoughts about them. "That's not in your department," I would be
told-"Don't invade his-or-her territory or you won't get tenure or you'll
have to take early retirement." I would therefore be unable to share what
was really on my mind and would have to keep my mouth shut. How well I
remember Joel Oppenheimer telling me, many years ago when he was teaching,
that he hated not being able to teach Wordsworth because he was supposed to
focus on teaching his students to write poems! This should change. Perhaps
those who are concerned about these matters, in and out of academia, should
start a campaign to cause such a restructuring to become normative.
We have no time for resentments (presumably we all hate change, especially
since we are all so busy and overworked, both in and out of academia).
Rather, these are both issues, I believe, which we must consider if we are
not all to wind up in the dustbin while the outside world looks for others
to deal with these questions.
Seriously everybody-how about it?
Dick Higgins
Dick Higgins
P O Box 27
Barrytown, NY 12507
Tel- (914) 758-6488
Fax- (914) 758-4416
e-mail- dhiggins@mhv.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 14:54:14 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: WEB POETRY, RESTRUCTURING LANGUAGE ARTS DEPARTMENTS
In-Reply-To: <v01530502ad0c3af7916a@[205.161.119.43]>
I totally agree with Dick Higgins' assessment. I see development however
not as Web/MOO/etc. sites with applications towards telephony or .wav for
example but as a flux constantly mediated by corporate development on one
hand and _darknet_ uses on the other. The Web is a bore; MIRC or ThePalace
aren't. So it goes. But think of poetics as an emission or spew occupying/
salvaging sites. I track down apps and that's getting impossible; using
them, remaining within one or another vortex/t, is foolish. I see my own
wrytings appear elsewhere on the Net, often unnamed, fantastic. Irigaray
has replaced Cage.
On another matter, Dick's completely right about English Departments.
We've suffered long enough. And I have constant suspicions about academic
professionalism in relation to poetics, except the latter as after the
fact and even then how useful?
Alan
( http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
Images at http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/ )