=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:31:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was
retained.
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Tom Mandel's Sonnets
Comments: To: cap-l@tc.umn.edu
Tom Mandel's sonnet sequence Prospect of Release is out (Chax Press,
$12.95, direct from the publisher at chax@mtn.org or wherever good
books are sold...meaning SPD in Berkeley, Woodland Pattern in Milwaukee
and through Rod Smith at Bridge in D.C.) and I'm as blown away by this
work as I was when I first saw the manuscript. Mandel has found a
perfect contemporary value for this form in the elegaic. It's
remarkable that one can write 50 elegies to one man, even a
step-father, each of them so intense in feeling and ultimately
different from one another:
To one who dies the world begins again
followed by words to describe it.
Youth and age, luminous with restraint
cleaved rock or two not joined. The dead
unite the clods of dirt that cover them
with instruction, their bones without
bare hands. I will do for him what
my father did for his. Landscape is
imperfect, moonlight to make it so.
In unwitting contribution the scientist
has taken to himself with love this
dead thing, vibrating the conscious use
of his own social maladjustment to
reveal a living act of revision.
There are some tremendous things going on in this poem (just watch how
the "v" is used in the final line for example, how it's played off the
liquids there against its being paired with the long "i" and hard "b"
two lines earlier) as there are in every poem in this book.
Prospect of Release is also, to the best of my knowledge, the first
Chax Press volume in awhile to declare itself "Chax Press Tucson
1996" although that would be a virtual Tucson I do believe -- Charles
and his family have not made the move back from Minneapolis quite yet.
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:03:08 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Baratier <dave.baratier@MOSBY.COM>
Subject: Re: Spoken word
I should have more information mid-next-week on the Taylor CD.
As far as other suggestions: most of them aren't on CD
Joy Harjo: Furious Light (tape) or The Woman who fell from the sky
(book/tape comb.)
Kenneth Patchen: Live in Canada (w/ Charlie Mingus) Folkways (record)
But as important check out what the journals are doing: Exact Change
Yearbook has a CD, Apostrophe is out on tape, WE has a CD out (I think
its issue 14) and write to Blank Gun Silencer (now nerve bundle
review) and Black Bear Review, they have a whole series of audio
recordings. Most of the adresses are on the buffalo web site under
Spencers list, the ones that aren't I can get for you. Be well
David Baratier
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:
Author: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> at INTERNET
Date: 30/07/1996 10:05
>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:51:28 CST
>From: David Baratier <dave.baratier@MOSBY.COM>
>Subject: Re: Spoken Word recordings
> Steven Taylor has a CD which just came out
Do you have a label or contact info on that?
Thanks,
Bob
\\ The Spoken Word Network: Home of Shout! Newspaper, \\
\\ the Cacophony Chorus, and London Productions \\
\\ 3010 Hennepin Ave S, #245, Minneapolis, MN 55408 USA \\
\\ london@bitstream.net http://www.bitstream.net/london \\
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:42:42 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Gale <london@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Marc Smith to perform in Minneapolis
The Cacophony Chorus is pleased to present a reading by Chicago poet Marc
Smith, inventor of the Poetry Slam, in Minneapolis, Aug 14.
Smith, a guiding force behind the performance poetry movement in the U.S.,
will perform at the Bryant Lake Bowl. Energetic, explosive, and
entertaining, Smith's freewheeling readings mix the power of poetry with
the possibilities of performance into one seamless blend.
Smith will be reading and signing copies of CROWDPLEASER--his first ever
book of poems--in which he recreates the effect of live presentation on the
printed page with the help of vivid line drawings by Michael Acerra.
The Bryant Lake Bowl, located at 810 West Lake Street in South
Minneapolis, features an intimate cabaret theater with full bar and
restaurant service. Tickets are $6.00. Call (612) 825-8949 for
reservations.
The Cacophony Chorus is an ongoing performance series highlighting the
variety and vibrancy of spoken word talent in the Twin Cities of
Minneapolis and St. Paul.
\\ The Spoken Word Network: Home of Shout! Newspaper, \\
\\ the Cacophony Chorus, and London Productions \\
\\ 3010 Hennepin Ave S, #245, Minneapolis, MN 55408 USA \\
\\ london@bitstream.net http://www.bitstream.net/london \\
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:41:27 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spoken word
Comments: cc: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@autarch.acsu.buffalo.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9607018389.AA838915442@smtp-gw.mosby.com> from "David Baratier"
at Aug 1, 96 10:03:08 am
If this hasn't appeared in this thread yet, I'd like to point out
spoken word available chez nous - the nous being all of us - available
through Linebreak. This is what's cookin'...
These recordings are of an extraordinary quality. Production this
attentive is all too rare in spoken word recordings.
----------------------------------------------------------
[from the Linebreak Programs page]
Clicking an author's or artist's name connects you to a page with
their picture, a description of their LINEbreak interview/performance,
and their actual LINEbreak program in various soundfile
formats. (There is also a link to their EPC Author Home Page, where
applicable.)
Available programs:
Robert Creeley
Ray Federman
Steve McCaffery
Lance & Andrea Olsen
Jena Osman
Ron Silliman
Dennis Tedlock
Fiona Templeton
Cecilia Vicun~a
LINEbreak programs with the following people are in production and
will be available here in this
summer:
Loss Pequen~o Glazier & Ken Sherwood
Lyn Hejinian
Barbara Guest
Ben Friedlander
Paul Auster
Bruce Andrews
Peter Straub
Jackson Mac Low
Susan Howe
Madeline Gins
and others.
Programs will appear steadily throughout the year as they are produced
for broadcast.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joseph Lease <lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Language Poetry; Deconstruction; New Criticism
Comments: To: george hartley <gehartle@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <ae25c8520002100491a6@[140.254.112.52]>
On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, george hartley wrote:
> Tristan:
>
> >Would a deconstruction of language poetry -- non-representational language
> >which strives to produce the primary world of experience to the dis-ease of
> >such poetics as Louis Simpson's -- be essentially a New Critical attempt
> >to render a text definitively (or unify textualities within a poem) what
> >Marjorie Perloff has noted as its vitally indeterminate qualifying
> >characteristics?
>
>
>
> What is "the primary world of experience"? To the best of my knowledge,
> Nick Piombino is the only poet related to language writing who explicitly
> uses the language of "experience" (although he has something very specific
> in mind). Barry Watten talks about "the world" lots in Total Syntax, but
> again in ways that would undo some uses of the concept. What experiences
> and what worlds do you have in mind?
>
> The potential connections between a certain deconstruction & New Criticism
> are in themselves intriguing--I'd want more time to construct something
> there, but I think I'd begin by questioning how deconstruction would unify
> textualities: the word "unify" might be the point at which we could
> distinguish between the two projects, both of which depend on intense
> scrutiny (close reading) of the text(s). Does the "its" of "its vitally
> indeterminate qualifying" refer to deconstruction or language poetry or new
> criticism?
>
> Maybe I've missed some earlier parts of this thread.
>
> George
>
RE: Language Poetry and "world" and "experience"--
from Lucaks on, world means something that points simultaneously to epic
and lyric--not mutually exclusive but epistemologically divergent
genres/modes--Watten's worldliness has much to do with what Thoreau and
Cage would have been like if they had been Marxists or Neomarxists instead
of post-Kantians--
again--with experience--you have a divergent configuration within a
Neomarxist (Althusser) sense of how experience is constructed by
culture--and this does not obviate what Emerson indicated by experience
and how that line points to (for example) Williams and Baraka and Wieners
and Fanny Howe--
perhaps words like world and experience can be experienced by poets as
passageways that lead simultaneously to different experiences of different
language-worlds--
Joseph Lease
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:27:12 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Mastery
Wasn't it Artaud who declared "No more masterpieces!" and then retreated to
his cublicle to churn out "Jet of Blood," which is not only a masterpiece,
but is the masterpiece to end all masterpieces?
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:41:04 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Marc Smith to perform in Minneapolis
bob gale: who is publishing marc smith's crowdpleaser?
md
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:34:06 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julie Marie Schmid <jschmid@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Marc Smith to perform in Minneapolis
Comments: To: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <3200de1f4767031@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Hey, Maria--
It's me again. Crowdpleaser is being published by Jeff Helgeson/Collage
Press here in Chicago. Marc Smith has a Crowdpleaser web page, which I
believe has all the pertinent info. But Snail Mail is Collage Press,
P.O. Box 1904, Chicago, IL 60690-1904 and phone is 312-764-0353.
Jeff's a great guy and the book is fab!
jms
On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> bob gale: who is publishing marc smith's crowdpleaser?
> md
>
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:38:37 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <bernstei@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spoken Word, LINEbreak, & the list
I am just back from a month mostly off-line (I did check in a few times
earlier in the month) and will soon read through the 1500 or so messages for
what once a slow month on this list. Thanks again to Joel Kuszai who
watched over the list in my absence and will continue to work with me on the
list. Questions about the list should be directed to us at
POETICS@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU. At least for the moment. The whole VMS
cluster at UB (our VAX system) is being dismantled this year so all those
"@ubvms" addresses will be changing to "@acsu.buffalo.edu". Our IBM system
is also being dismantled and that means this list will be shifted over to a
UNIX machine, as "transparently" as possible, and that our new list address
will change either to Poetics@acsu or Poetics-L@acsu. The "L" might be good
as point of clarification but then "poetics" alone remains appealing. More
on this as we hear about it.
ON SPOKEN WORD, or as I would prefer to call it, poetry readings, as many on
the list will know, in 1994 I edited a CD called LIVE AT THE EAR, with
selections from 13 poets: Susan Howe, Ron Silliman, Leslie Scalapino, Ted
Greenwald, Rosmarie Waldrop, Alan Davies, Barrett Watten, Erica Hunt, Bruce
Andrews, Hannah Weiner, Steve McCaffery, Ann Lauterbach, and myself.
Remarkably, copies are STILL AVAILALE for the original $15.95 if you ACT
NOW. Order from SPD or direct from the Elemenope Productions: 7 Market
Square, Suite 281 Pittsburgh, PA 15222 or use Elemenope's "800" number:
1-800-240-6980.
I posted some information, including technical details, on LINEbreak as my
last post in late June. But to repeat: These are a series of about 30
half-hour interview shows that I did over last year, produced by Martin
Spinelli; each include about 10 minutes of readings. All the shows will be
put up at the EPC but we are also making cassettes available and we are also
working on a book version of the shows. The shows are now available through
the Public Radio Satellite Program and will be made available to independent
stations as well: however, radio programmers are not exactly lookin' to add
poetry to their schedules so the potential for this program to be heard over
the radio is sadly diminished. For further information on LINEbreak, you
can contact Martin at linebrk@acsu.buffalo.edu. OUR URL is
http://writing.upenn.edu/ecp/linebreak.
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:39:45 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Marc Smith to perform in Minneapolis
>Smith, a guiding force behind the performance poetry movement...
bob, would you mind sharing your conception of what this "movement"
includes, or leaves out? i've heard it most often in conjunction
w/ the slam scene; & hardly ever applied to sound poetry, fr
example... "spoken word", and just plain old poetry readings,
seem to intersect but not completely overlap... "movement"
seems like such a strongly loaded term to me (a marketing term,
to my ear), i wonder how its meant. seems to be a number of
us here w/ interests in this direction--any other opins?
lbd
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:08:34 +0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: Re: Marc Smith to perform in Minneapolis
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01ae267f09a91c@[204.73.77.110]>
Huh? Marc Smith invented the slam? I thought Al Simmons and Terry
Jacobus invented the slam, with poetry readings in boxing rings, etc, in
Chicago around about 1980? At least I was hearing about slams and them
back then.
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:29:23 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <bernstei@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Fall Readings at UB
Time to make those plane reservations!
Wednesdays at 4 Plus=20
FALL POETRY AND PROSE September 4 - November 20, 1996
AT THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK, BUFFALO (AMHERST CAMPUS) All events=
FREE.
LINEbreak on WBFO
Mondays at 8pm starting Sept. 9
Host Charles Bernstein interviews poets and fiction writers in this
one-hour arts magazine of the air produced by Martin Spinelli. Tune in on
WBFO radio (88.7 FM).
Cris Cheek
Catherine Walsh
Poetry Reading and Performance
Weds., Sept. 4, 4pm, University Gallery, Center for the Arts=20
Catherine Walsh lives in Dublin, where she teaches English to refugees.
Her poetry books include Idir Eatortha, Pitch, and Short Stories. Cris
Cheek is an English performance artist and poet with a new spoken word CD in
the works. His books include: a present, m u d, and 444. He is also a
member of the performance music trio Slant.
Deanna Ferguson
Poetry Reading
Weds., Sept. 11, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA=20
Deanna Ferguson lives in Vancouver, where she is a publisher of Tsunami
Editions and a co-editor of BOO Magazine. Her books include Rough Bush, The
Relative Minor; Link Fantasy, with Stan Douglas; and Will Tear Us.=20
Pierre Joris
Poetry/Translation Reading
Weds., Sept. 25, 4pm, CFA Screening Rm
Talk
"Untranslatability/Translatability : Community/Uncommunity"
Thurs., Sept. 26, 12:30pm, 438 Clemens Hall
Pierre Joris is the author of Brecca: Selected Poems 1972-1986, the
translator of Celan, Blanchot, Jab=E8s, and Schwitters; and the co-editor of
Poems for the Millennium: The University of California Book of Modern and
Postmodern Poetry. He teaches at SUNY-Albany.
John Felstiner, Armand Schwerner
Translation Colloquium
Thurs., Oct. 3, 12:30, 420 Capen Hall=20
Lecture by John Felstiner: "The Art of Loss: Translating Neruda and Celan"
Poetry Reading and Talk by Armand Schwerner: "The Tablets / Dante"
Introductions/responses: Jerome Rothenberg, Dennis Tedlock, Ray Federman
Armand Schwerner's most recent book collects his legendary serial poem The
Tablets (Atlas Press). Presently, he is at work on translations of Dante.
John Felstiner is the author of the critically acclaimed study, Paul Celan:
Poet, Survivor, Jew (Yale) and of Translating Neruda: The Way to Macchu
Picchu (Stanford). He teaches English and Jewish studies at Stanford.
Felstiner will also be giving a talk and book signing at Talking Leaves
Books at 6:30pm.
Lawrence Block
Prose Reading
Weds., Oct. 9, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA
Buffalo-native Lawrence Block is a contemporary master of mystery and
suspense. Among his most recent, best-selling books are Coward's Kiss
(Carroll & Graf), Spider, Spin Me A Web (Morrow/Quill), The Burglar Who
Liked To Quote Kipling (Dutton), and You Could Call It Murder (Carroll &=
Graf).
Susan Schultz
Lecture
"Local Vocals: Hawai'i's Pidgin Literature, Performance, and=
Postcoloniality"
Thurs., Oct. 10, 4pm, 438 Clemens
Susan Schultz's poetry books include The Lost Country, Another Childhood
and, forthcoming, Aleatory Allegories. She is a professor at the University
of Hawai'i-Manoa and the editor of the literary magazine Tinfish and of the
critical collection The Tribe of John: Ashbery and Contemporary Poetry.
Schultz is a Poetics Program Fellow for the semester.
Robert Creeley at 70: A Celebration
Thurs., Oct. 10 to Sat., Oct. 12
Join John Ashbery, Gil Sorrentino, Amiri Baraka, Eileen Myles, Jim Dine, and
Steve Kuhn & Carol Fredette, Mercury Rev at the Katherine Cornell Theater
(UB North Campus) and Hallwalls. =20
Serge Gavronsky
Poetry/translation reading
Weds., Oct. 16, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA
Talk
"Transpoetics: Theory and Models"
Thurs., Oct. 17, 12:30pm, 438 Clemens Hall
Serge Gavronsky has translated Ponge, Zukofsky, Hocquard, Mansour, and
Arakawa & Gins; he edited Modern French Poetry and the forthcoming Six
Contemporary French Woman Poets; his most recent book is Towards a New
Poetics: Contemporary Writing in France. He teaches at Barnard.
Al Cook
Lecture
"New Musics in Poetry: Senses of Sound"
Fri., Oct. 18, 4pm, 420 Capen Hall
Al Cook is the legendary founder of "poetics" at UB, where he taught from
1963-1978. Cook is the author of 20 books of criticism and 8 books of
poetry, and the translator of Oedipus Rex and The Odyssey. He is Ford
Foundation Professor (Emeritus) of Comparative Literature, Classics, and
English at Brown.
Thom Gunn
"Committee for Poetry" Reading
Mon., Oct. 21, 4pm, location TBA
Poet and MacArthur fellow Thom Gunn's Collected Poems were published last
year by Farrar, Straus & Giroux, which has also issued Moly, and My Sad
Captains. His other books include two collections of essays and memoirs:
The Occasions of Poetry and Shelf Life.
Leslie Scalapino
Poetry Reading
Weds., Oct. 23, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA
A Conversation with Leslie Scalapino
Thursday, Oct. 24, 12:30pm, 438 Clemens
Leslie Scalapino's remarkable series of books include The Front Matter, Dead
Souls (Wesleyan), Defoe (Sun & Moon), a collection of essays Objects in the
Terrifying Tense / Longing from Taking Place (Roof), and a new selected
works Green & Black (Talisman). She edits O Books, teaches in Bard's MFA
program, and lives in Berkeley. =20
Robert Olen Butler
Prose Reading
Wed., Oct. 23, Hallwalls (2495 Main Street, Buffalo), 8 pm
Robert Olen Butler the author of the Pulizer-prize winning novel, A Good
Scent from a Strange Mountain (Holt) will read from his new book, Tabloid
Dreams. His reading is sponsored Butler Chair (Department of English), the
World Languages Institute, the Program in Asian Studies, and Just Buffalo.
Leslie Heywood
Multimedia Performance
"Building Backlash Bodies: Visible Invisibilities"
Weds., Oct. 30, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA
Leslie Heywood's Dedication to Hunger: The Anorexic Aesthetic in Modern
Culture is just out from UC Press. Her performance touches on the
intersection between her experiences as a "disciplined body" in
intercollegiate track and cross country and a "disciplined mind" in the
academy. A champion weight-lifter, she teaches at SUNY-Binghamton.
Murray Edmond
Poetry Reading and Talk
Fri., Nov. 1, 11am, 438 Clemens Hall
Auckland poet Murray Edmond will read from new work and talk about new
developments in New Zealand poetry. Edmond's books include End Wall, Letters
and Paragraphs, From the Word Go, and The Switch. He has recently completed
a study of experimental theater in New Zealand in the 1960s and 70s.
John Kinsella
Barrett Watten
Poetry Reading
Weds., Nov. 6, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA
"From BASIC English to Under Erasure: Is There a Metalanguage?" =97 lecture
by Barrett Watten: Thurs., Nov. 7, 12:30pm, 438 Clemens
Discussion with John Kinsella on new Australian poetry: Thurs., Nov. 7,
10:30am, 438 Clemens
Barrett Watten's Frame is new this Fall from Sun & Moon. Editor of This and
co-editor of Poetics Journal, Watten's other books include Progress and
Total Syntax. He teaches at Wayne State.
John Kinsella is the author of The Undertow: New and Selected Poems and
Syzygy. One of Australia most innovative young poets, he edits Salt.
W. S. Merwin
Silverman Poetry Reading
Fri., Nov. 8, 8pm, 250 Baird Hall
Among award-winning poet W. S. Merwin's recent books are The Lost Upland
(Knopf), Selected Poems (Atheneum), and his translation of Neruda's Twenty
Love Poems and a Song of Despair.
Hank Lazer
Susan Schultz
Poetry Reading
Weds., Nov. 13, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA
Talk/Discussion with Hank Lazer=20
"Poetry, Criticism, and Institutional Negotiations"
Thurs., Nov. 15, 12:30pm, 438 Clemens
Opposing Poetries is Hank Lazer's new two-volume collection of essays from
Northwestern. His poetry books include Doublespace, Inter(ir)ruptions, and,
forthcoming, Displayspace. Professor of English at the University of
Alabama, Lazer is also Assistant Dean for Humanities and Fine Arts.
Third Annual French Poetry Festival=20
Jos=E9e Lapeyrere, Yves Di Manno, Bernard No=EBl
Bilingual Poetry Reading
Weds., Nov. 20, 4pm, Univ. Gal., CFA
Jos=E9e Lapeyrere is a psychoanalyst, artist, and editor, as well as the
author of Belles joues les geraniums, a collection of poems. Yves Di Manno
is the director of the collection "Poesie" at Flammarion; Partitions is his
most recent poetry collection. Bernard No=EBl is the author of 35 works
including novels (Le Syndrome de Gramsci), art criticism (Magritte), and
poetry (La Chute des temps). =20
=20
"Wednesdays at 4 PLUS" is a Poetics Program production sponsored, in part,
by the Melodia E. Jones Chair in French, Department of Modern Languages and
Literatures (Raymond Federman); the James H. McNulty Chair, Department of
English (Dennis Tedlock); the Samuel P. Capen Chair of Poetry and the
Humanities (Robert Creeley); and the David Gray Chair of Poetry and Letters,
Department of English (Charles Bernstein), in cooperation with the
University Gallery and the Poetry and Rare Books Collection. The Silverman
Reading is sponsored by the Oscar Silverman Fund; the Committee for Poetry
Reading is sponsored by the Abbott Fund. This series is made possible, in
part, by Poets & Writers, Inc., through a major grant from the Lila
Wallace-Reader's Digest Fund and a grant from the Literature Program of the
New York State Council on the Arts. Coordinated by Charles Bernstein. For
further information call (716) 645-3810 or contact us at
dunlap@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:30:36 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: yet another database... (fwd)
I asked Ted if I could forward this, and though he says he doesn't believe
in poetry or dancing, he said yes. gab.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:27:56 -1000
From: t byfield <tbyfield@panix.com>
To: Multiple recipients of <bad@eng.hss.cmu.edu>
Subject: yet another database...
WASHINGTON <bla bla bla> -- Senators worried about TERRORISM called for
TIGHTER SECURITY at airports <bla bla bla> having GOVERNMENT take over <bla
bla bla> screening passengers and their baggage <bla bla bla> SEN. Ernest
F. Hollings, D-S.C., said at <bla bla bla> the crash of TWA Flight 800 <bla
bla bla> a bomb. <bla bla bla> "the threat of TERRORISM is INCREASING,"
TRANSPORT SECRETARY Federico Pena <bla bla bla> a NEW COMMISSION <bla bla
bla> VICE PRESIDENT Al Gore is examining <bla bla bla> Implementing a
COMPREHENSIVE SECURITY SYSTEM could cost <bla bla bla> Lautenberg said,
suggesting a <bla bla bla> surcharge known as a "security assessment fee."
<NICE NAME, HUH?...bla bla bla> funds could be sought from the DEFENSE
DEPARTMENT budget <bla bla bla> CHAIRMAN Larry Pressler, R-S.D., said he
plans a CLOSED HEARING <bla bla bla> DETAILS THAT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED IN
PUBLIC. <bla bla bla> SEN. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, called for BETTER
PASSENGER INFORMATION TO BE COLLECTED by airlines, to prevent a recurrence
of delays in notifying next of kin following an accident <which has NOTHING
to do with the ostensible TERRORISM THREAT, of course...bla bla bla> Pena
said his agency is readying RULES TO REQUIRE the airlines to get <LOTS OF
INFO FROM YOU, bla bla bla>
They're completely fucking nuts.
Ted
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:03:08 -0600
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Gale <london@BITSTREAM.NET>
Subject: Re: spoken word/Marc Smith
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:39:45 -0400
>From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Marc Smith to perform in Minneapolis
>>Smith, a guiding force behind the performance poetry movement...
>bob, would you mind sharing your conception of what this "movement"
>includes, or leaves out? i've heard it most often in conjunction
>w/ the slam scene; & hardly ever applied to sound poetry, fr
>example... "spoken word", and just plain old poetry readings,
>seem to intersect but not completely overlap... "movement"
>seems like such a strongly loaded term to me (a marketing term,
>to my ear), i wonder how its meant. seems to be a number of
>us here w/ interests in this direction--any other opins?
Yes, you are perhaps correct, "Movement" is a _very_ loaded word -- one
person's movement is another person's obstacle. And yes, that post was
pulled from a recent news release we sent out, so some marketing tone
remained when it really wasn't necessary for this list. My apologies.
I used it because Marc has for over a decade been not only a poet and
performer, but a producer and organizer. He's the one who came up with the
poetry slam format at the Green Mill in Chicago many years ago -- yes,
there were previous poetry boxing matches -- but from my understanding, the
distillation that we now call a slam started with Marc.
For a more (in)complete history, check out:
http://www.tezcat.com/~malachit/slam/
I think all this became part of a movement when folks like Smith, Bob
Holman (hi Bob), and Gary Glazner started the first National Slams in 1980.
Since then it has become an international event with hundreds of
participants and thousands of fans, as well as an uncounted number of local
unaffiliated slams.
Clearly, the merits of the slam format can be debated (I'm of very mixed
opinions myself, and I'm not really interested in going down that road).
Neither would I _ever_ argue that the slam is the reason that poetry has
regained some level recent cultural popularity.
No, the point being is there is now a whole nother access point to poetry,
one available to people outside the academia, and that these folks are
begining to network themselves across the country not merely through slam
networks, but regional publications/zines, schools/institutions, and other
avenues. (Take this list for example.) This is the "movement" I had in
mind, and I hope to think of it as inclusive, rather than exclusive.
Therefore, IMHO, we're all part of it to some degree or another.
(I should note here, I'm one of those heretical "spoken word" people, and
I'm grooving on the cross pollination that is taking place with text-based
works, whether it is poets, storytellers, or performance artists.)
If you're interested, I recently interviewed Boston Slam Master Michael
Brown about many of these same points:
http://www.bitstream.net/london/may96/brown.html
Peace,
Bob
\\ The Spoken Word Network: Home of Shout! Newspaper, \\
\\ the Cacophony Chorus, and London Productions \\
\\ 3010 Hennepin Ave S, #245, Minneapolis, MN 55408 USA \\
\\ london@bitstream.net http://www.bitstream.net/london \\
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:58:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: spoken word/Marc Smith
bob gale rites:
(I should note here, I'm one of those heretical "spoken word" people, and
I'm grooving on the cross pollination that is taking place with text-based
works, whether it is poets, storytellers, or performance artists.)
yr not alone, in fact "crosspollination" is one word i use frequently in
describing what i find exciting about poetry/cultural studies/STUFF. i'm not a
slammer myself, but a fan of democratic poetries, and i frequently find myself
at (affectionate) odds w/ (some of) these here my listmates..
md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 12:15:20 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Citing online sources
An article in this issue of _Internet World_ gives an overview of citing
online sources. Two sources it gives that seem the mosst interesting are:
"Beyond the MLA Handbook"
http://falcon.eku.edu/honors/beyond-mla
and
"Elements of E-Text Style"
http://wiretap.spies.com/ftp.items/Library/Classic/estyle.txt
Anyway, there's more in the article (September 1996): 72-74.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:15:02 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: TapRoot Reviews #9/10 announce
This is to announce the publication of _TapRoot Reviews_ #9/10
(double issue). Over 300 short reviews of micropress magazines
& books, plus articles on Radio Art, Pantograph Press, the Visual
Poetry Bienal in Mexico City, poetry videos & CDs, as well as
books by Ray DiPalma, Peter Ganick, Susan Smith Nash, Alice
Notley, and others. 40 pages, tabloid newsprint format, $5.00
from Burning Press, PO Box 585, Lakewood OH 44107.
Special mention is made, in this issue, of writers or publications
that also have material available on the World Wide Web. These
reviews are excerpted, along with direct links to about 30 of those
WWW resources, at: <http://www.ims.csuohio.edu/TReeWeb/TReeWeb.html>.
*Special offer* to Poetics list members: new subscribers can
receive this double-issue, normally $5.00, for $2.50 with their
new subscription--a total of $10 for numbers 9 thru 13. *Orders
must be received by Friday August 9th* (the day our bulk mailing
goes out) to take advantage of this offer. Respond via email
direct to: <au462@cleveland.freenet.edu> (DO NOT RESPOND TO THE
POETICS LIST).
asever
luigi-bob drake, editor
TRR/Burning Press/etc...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 04:12:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was
retained.
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was
retained.
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Borders boycott
Comments: To: wr-eye-tings@sfu.ca
Dear folks:
The picketting in front of Center City Borders continues. Please join
us on Saturday, August 10 beginning at 12 noon to show solidarity for
fired union activist Miriam Fried. The picketting is taking place
every Saturday but we'd like to have a strong NWU showing there on the
10th. Border is located on Walnut St., between 17th and 18th Streets.
For those of you unfamiliar with the saga, here's a brief update.
The Center City branch of Borders recently fired one of their
employees, ostensibly for bureaucratic reasons. But the truth is, she
spearheaded a union drive at the store. After Borders brought in a big
union-busting firm, the union drive failed this last March.
The United Food and Commercial Workers have taken up the case, filing
an unfair labor practices suit on behalf of Miriam. They are also
starting to sign up employees for another union drive (another election
can't take place until March 1997).
A number of unions in the city, including AFSCME, UFCW and IWW, are
supporting Miriam and the Borders boycott.
So please come out on the 10th, join the picket line, and show writerly
solidarity for a fired bookseller.
John
John Feffer
Philadelphia sublocal of the National Writers Union
519 S. Melville St.
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215-386-5538
e-mail: nwuphil@libertynet.org
url: http://www.libertynet.org/~nwuphil
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 17:32:09 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <trbell@USE.USIT.NET>
Subject: cancer poetry again
In-Reply-To: <199608041112.EAA09061@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com>
I lost the name of the person who first brought this up and was asked by
a nurse about publishing the poetry of the girl who died of cancer, but I
heard from someone with an interest in publishing it: From
vision.quest.cc@pixie.co.za Wed Jul 31 21:00:37 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jul
1996 11:01:12 +0200 From: "Vision.quest cc" <vision.quest.cc@pixie.co.za>
To: tbjn@well.com Subject: Cancer poetry Dear Thomas Bell, I picked up
your query about "cancer poetry" while browsing the Medicine in Literature
messages pages on the internet. I am the new editor of the South African
Family Practice Journal, and our October edition will be focusing on
cancer. If the person is interested in my having a look at the poetry to
see if it will "fit" with the other articles, they should feel free to
forward it to me via e-mail. Unfortunately, we would not be able to pay
anything (and even if we could, the South African currency is so weak at
the moment, it would amount to very little in dollar terms). Also to be
taken into account is that the journal has a rather limited circulation at
present, even though it is 15 years old. We're working on changing that.
I look forward to hearing from you, Roy Jobson (M.D.) Roy and Marje Jobson
Vision.quest.cc@pixie.co.za 45 22nd Street, MENLO PARK, Pretoria, South
Africa, 0081 Tel/Fax: +27-12-467390
tom
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 15:43:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Dan Raphael Dlugonski <raphael@ARACNET.COM>
Subject: Re: spoken word
>When is a movmeent just a recognition, a naming what has existed for
decades. Or you want to convince the public this product is new by focussing
on a part of the product that has existed as a minority element. think of
the reading that luanched the beats, with kerouac as dorman and designated
interruptor.
performance poetry/slams/spoken word have increased awareness of poetry's
conneciton with body, vernacular, and current media. some poets have always
worked this connection--like blake mallarme whitman.
what would be fantastic would be a wave to maintain the neregy level of
'performance/spoken' with syntax-deep, connotation-rich work (which might
not fit the slam's 3 minute limit or appeal to an audience if it was short
enough) that is, i believe, at the core of poetry: unleashing the power of
language as it can tap collective and specualtive consciousness' in a wide
variety of peoples.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. yet another database... (fwd)
> 2. spoken word/Marc Smith (2)
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:30:36 -1000
>From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
>Subject: yet another database... (fwd)
>
>I asked Ted if I could forward this, and though he says he doesn't believe
>in poetry or dancing, he said yes. gab.
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:27:56 -1000
>From: t byfield <tbyfield@panix.com>
>To: Multiple recipients of <bad@eng.hss.cmu.edu>
>Subject: yet another database...
>
>WASHINGTON <bla bla bla> -- Senators worried about TERRORISM called for
>TIGHTER SECURITY at airports <bla bla bla> having GOVERNMENT take over <bla
>bla bla> screening passengers and their baggage <bla bla bla> SEN. Ernest
>F. Hollings, D-S.C., said at <bla bla bla> the crash of TWA Flight 800 <bla
>bla bla> a bomb. <bla bla bla> "the threat of TERRORISM is INCREASING,"
>TRANSPORT SECRETARY Federico Pena <bla bla bla> a NEW COMMISSION <bla bla
>bla> VICE PRESIDENT Al Gore is examining <bla bla bla> Implementing a
>COMPREHENSIVE SECURITY SYSTEM could cost <bla bla bla> Lautenberg said,
>suggesting a <bla bla bla> surcharge known as a "security assessment fee."
><NICE NAME, HUH?...bla bla bla> funds could be sought from the DEFENSE
>DEPARTMENT budget <bla bla bla> CHAIRMAN Larry Pressler, R-S.D., said he
>plans a CLOSED HEARING <bla bla bla> DETAILS THAT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED IN
>PUBLIC. <bla bla bla> SEN. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, called for BETTER
>PASSENGER INFORMATION TO BE COLLECTED by airlines, to prevent a recurrence
>of delays in notifying next of kin following an accident <which has NOTHING
>to do with the ostensible TERRORISM THREAT, of course...bla bla bla> Pena
>said his agency is readying RULES TO REQUIRE the airlines to get <LOTS OF
>INFO FROM YOU, bla bla bla>
>
>
> They're completely fucking nuts.
>
>Ted
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:03:08 -0600
>From: Bob Gale <london@BITSTREAM.NET>
>Subject: Re: spoken word/Marc Smith
>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:39:45 -0400
>>From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: Marc Smith to perform in Minneapolis
>
>>>Smith, a guiding force behind the performance poetry movement...
>
>>bob, would you mind sharing your conception of what this "movement"
>>includes, or leaves out? i've heard it most often in conjunction
>>w/ the slam scene; & hardly ever applied to sound poetry, fr
>>example... "spoken word", and just plain old poetry readings,
>>seem to intersect but not completely overlap... "movement"
>>seems like such a strongly loaded term to me (a marketing term,
>>to my ear), i wonder how its meant. seems to be a number of
>>us here w/ interests in this direction--any other opins?
>
>Yes, you are perhaps correct, "Movement" is a _very_ loaded word -- one
>person's movement is another person's obstacle. And yes, that post was
>pulled from a recent news release we sent out, so some marketing tone
>remained when it really wasn't necessary for this list. My apologies.
>
>I used it because Marc has for over a decade been not only a poet and
>performer, but a producer and organizer. He's the one who came up with the
>poetry slam format at the Green Mill in Chicago many years ago -- yes,
>there were previous poetry boxing matches -- but from my understanding, the
>distillation that we now call a slam started with Marc.
>
>For a more (in)complete history, check out:
>
> http://www.tezcat.com/~malachit/slam/
>
>I think all this became part of a movement when folks like Smith, Bob
>Holman (hi Bob), and Gary Glazner started the first National Slams in 1980.
>Since then it has become an international event with hundreds of
>participants and thousands of fans, as well as an uncounted number of local
>unaffiliated slams.
>
>Clearly, the merits of the slam format can be debated (I'm of very mixed
>opinions myself, and I'm not really interested in going down that road).
>Neither would I _ever_ argue that the slam is the reason that poetry has
>regained some level recent cultural popularity.
>
>No, the point being is there is now a whole nother access point to poetry,
>one available to people outside the academia, and that these folks are
>begining to network themselves across the country not merely through slam
>networks, but regional publications/zines, schools/institutions, and other
>avenues. (Take this list for example.) This is the "movement" I had in
>mind, and I hope to think of it as inclusive, rather than exclusive.
>Therefore, IMHO, we're all part of it to some degree or another.
>
>(I should note here, I'm one of those heretical "spoken word" people, and
>I'm grooving on the cross pollination that is taking place with text-based
>works, whether it is poets, storytellers, or performance artists.)
>
>If you're interested, I recently interviewed Boston Slam Master Michael
>Brown about many of these same points:
>
> http://www.bitstream.net/london/may96/brown.html
>
>Peace,
>Bob
>
>\\ The Spoken Word Network: Home of Shout! Newspaper, \\
> \\ the Cacophony Chorus, and London Productions \\
> \\ 3010 Hennepin Ave S, #245, Minneapolis, MN 55408 USA \\
> \\ london@bitstream.net http://www.bitstream.net/london \\
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:58:37 -0500
>From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
>Subject: Re: spoken word/Marc Smith
>
>bob gale rites:
>(I should note here, I'm one of those heretical "spoken word" people, and
>I'm grooving on the cross pollination that is taking place with text-based
>works, whether it is poets, storytellers, or performance artists.)
>
>
>yr not alone, in fact "crosspollination" is one word i use frequently in
>describing what i find exciting about poetry/cultural studies/STUFF. i'm not a
>slammer myself, but a fan of democratic poetries, and i frequently find myself
>at (affectionate) odds w/ (some of) these here my listmates..
>md
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of POETICS Digest - 1 Aug 1996 to 2 Aug 1996
>************************************************
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:56:08 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: cancer poetry again
tom bell writes:
> I lost the name of the person who first brought this up and was asked by
> a nurse about publishing the poetry of the girl who died of cancer, but I
> heard from someone with an interest in publishing it: From
> vision.quest.cc@pixie.co.za Wed Jul 31 21:00:37 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jul
> 1996 11:01:12 +0200 From: "Vision.quest cc" <vision.quest.cc@pixie.co.za>
> To: tbjn@well.com Subject: Cancer poetry Dear Thomas Bell, I picked up
> your query about "cancer poetry" while browsing the Medicine in Literature
> messages pages on the internet. I am the new editor of the South African
> Family Practice Journal, and our October edition will be focusing on
> cancer. If the person is interested in my having a look at the poetry to
> see if it will "fit" with the other articles, they should feel free to
> forward it to me via e-mail. Unfortunately, we would not be able to pay
> anything (and even if we could, the South African currency is so weak at
> the moment, it would amount to very little in dollar terms). Also to be
> taken into account is that the journal has a rather limited circulation at
> present, even though it is 15 years old. We're working on changing that.
> I look forward to hearing from you, Roy Jobson (M.D.) Roy and Marje Jobson
> Vision.quest.cc@pixie.co.za 45 22nd Street, MENLO PARK, Pretoria, South
> Africa, 0081 Tel/Fax: +27-12-467390
>
> tom
just a note to say that though i don't recall the person's name either (male and
from "down under" is all i recall, and not wystan or tony), i feel a glow of
pleasure at this possibility, and i like it that this list enabled a (potential)
publication of poems know one on the list knows (but cd be important to
someone), in a publication that (probably) no one on the list knows (but cd be
important to someone). md
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:34:54 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: spoken word
Comments: To: Dan Raphael Dlugonski <raphael@ARACNET.COM>
On 4 Aug 96 at 15:43, Dan Raphael Dlugonski wrote:
> what would be fantastic would be a wave to maintain the neregy level of
> 'performance/spoken' with syntax-deep, connotation-rich work (which might
> not fit the slam's 3 minute limit or appeal to an audience if it was short
> enough) that is, i believe, at the core of poetry: unleashing the power of
> language as it can tap collective and specualtive consciousness' in a wide
> variety of peoples.
One useful thing that's happening in the slams here in Dallas is that
we have featured poets, performing before the event and between the
rounds. While these are often visiting Slam poets and the like, they
frequently feature poets who work in different formats. It's a good
spot for people whose work tends to go on beyond the 3 minute limit
or does not have the competitive inyourfaceitude. My sound-poetry
ensemble, "Question Authority, the", are going to be featured a few
weeks from now. While we're definitely not Slam poetry (though some of
our members have slammed), we think what we do will get a good
reception (once people get beyond their initial confusion :-]).
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:03:13 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Daniel Bouchard <Daniel_Bouchard@HMCO.COM>
Subject: Mail >> FWD
I am forwarding this inquiry at the request of a friend.
__________________________________________________
Received: from: ecalabria\e^poste^.ita (8.6.12/8.6.12) id
LMAAA09046664090; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:30:18 -0400
I was wondering if you could do me a favor & post this to that Poem Chat
List that you frequent, & see if anyone could provide me with a bit more
information on this. (As per your suggestion, I've been considering
actually signing ON to that list; but I am not sure that I could get it here in
Italy? & anyway, who wants 100 pieces of email every day? I much
prefer just 'hearing' about it from you).
Well, on to my question. While in Rome recently, I caught wind of a
wonderful piece by Mr. H. Gould that appeared back in the States in
something that has been refed to as A POX OF THEM. Apparently it is a
perfect example of what the Geist has to say. This is a wonderful
question really, What in deed does the Geist say? Can anyone enlighten
me as to what a.) The Geist says? & b.) What Henry has said it says, if
you feel that a. & b. are substantially different?
{An email document of the text might suffice, but I doubt that a hard copy
would ever make it to me--has anyone out there ever tried to GO to the
Post-Office in Italy?}
Many thanks. Yours,
T.Door
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 07:45:46 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Italian post
Re Italy and Post Office: best I heard was in 70's from a friend who
had lived in Italy for a while, Eileen Maitland. The gist was that the backlog of
undelivered mail got so big that three weeks worth was incinerated by
the P.O. so it cd make a fresh start. How "true" this story is I do
not know.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:41:27 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mail >> FWD
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 05 Aug 96 15:35:07 EDT from
<EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
molte grazie, Gale! I'm either the toast of or getting roasted in Rome,
I guess.
p.s. while I've got you online, I'd be molte grateful for any word of mouth
you can provide for the Anderson/Waldrop reading on Aug 15th at Native
Gallery (8 pm). Maybe see you there? Thanks - Henry
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:49:45 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: sorry gang
sorry gang for private post to the list. I'm going back to wooden typewriters
& outhouses & doghouses where I belong... - HG
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:22:41 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Baratier <dave.baratier@MOSBY.COM>
Subject: mail fwd
Well, on to my question. While in Rome recently, I caught wind of a
wonderful piece by Mr. H. Gould that appeared back in the States in
something that has been refed to as A POX OF THEM. Apparently it is
a perfect example of what the Geist has to say. This is a wonderful
question really, What in deed does the Geist say? Can anyone
enlighten me as to what a.) The Geist says? & b.) What Henry has
said it says, if you feel that a. & b. are substantially different?
A.) The geist windbags hardly anything as it is a verb: gesprungen,
that is to jump in the past.
B.) Henry, following Hopkin's ruse, has made you believe in its
plausibility, therefore: Just don't call it late for dinner. Or to
re-phrase Pound in a pleasing manner, pilaster and perish!
It's difference is well documented in music, say the differrance
between gavotte and goucherie (or cf Yeats _A Vision_ page 117).
Be well
David Baratier
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 17:24:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Italian post
>Re Italy and Post Office: best I heard was in 70's from a friend who
>had lived in Italy for a while, Eileen Maitland. The gist was that the
>backlog of
>undelivered mail got so big that three weeks worth was incinerated by
>the P.O. so it cd make a fresh start. How "true" this story is I do
>not know.
>
>Tony Green,
While in Italy in the Fall of 1977, I saw television coverage of this event
(though I dont know whether this happened often). They showed a
bulldozer-like machine pushing mounds of mail into the flames.
George Bowering. "a workingman shd/ be alone
2499 West 37th Ave., with his mind,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 whatever that is ."
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca --Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 03:26:54 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Mail
When I worked in the U.S. Postal Service (1967-8) the rule of thumb was
that the mail had to be delivered only so that there would be room to
store the new mail.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled formal postal employee
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:01:09 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: disgruntled postal workers, dead mail & Bartleby
I was living in Arles, France in May '68. There was no
Postes-Telegraphes-Telephones. A dog show drew huge crowds and the
Communists attempted to distribute truckloads of free potatoes--which the
Gypsies stole. There was so much going on no one missed the mail.
Re disgruntled former postal employees and buried mail, there's
Melville's Bartleby the Scrivener, from which this:
The report was this: that Bartleby had been a subordinate clerk
in the Dead Letter Office in Washington, from which he had been suddenly
removed by a change in the administration. When I think over this rumor,
hardly can I express the emotions which seize me. Dead letters! does it
not sound like dead men? Conceive a man by nature and misfortune prone
to a pallid hopelessness, can any business seem more fitted to heighten
it than that of continually handling these dead letters, and assorting
them for the flames? . . . On errands of life, these letters speed to
death.
Ah, Bartleby! Ah, humanity!
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 07:47:54 -0800
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From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: <p>Hi, I am syntactically correct markup!</p>
<p>Hi, I am syntactically correct markup!</p>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:46:59 +0100
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: August Events at Small Press Traffic
Small Press Traffic presents:
=46riday, August 9, 7:30 p.m.
at the New College Cultural Center
766 Valencia Street, SF
$5
Mary Burger
Jordan Davis
Robert Hale
-----------------------------------------------------------
Thursday, August 29, 7:30 p.m.
at the New College Theater
777 Valencia Street, SF
$5
Gertrude Stein, Jewish Social Scientists and the =8CJewish Question=B9
a talk by Maria Damon
=B3Gertrude Stein, Jewish Social Scientists and the =8CJewish Question=B9=B2=
will
place Stein in dialogue with various Jewish social scientists (Maurice
=46ishberg, Otto Weininger, Sigmund Freud, Melville Herskovits) who wanted t=
o
participate in the social scientific discourse of their time but also had
concerns about how, as Jews, to negotiate the anti-Semitism of much of that
social science.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:38:43 -0700
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From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: disgruntled postal workers, dead mail & Creeley
And don't forget:
They are taking all my letters, and they
put them into a fire.
I see the flames, etc.
But do not care, etc.
They burn everything I have, or what little
I have. I don't care, etc. ...
from THE DISHONEST MAILMEN
by Robert Creeley (in _For Love_)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:29:54 -0500
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From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: Hiroshima & Shadows
Re Melville's "Dead letters! does it not sound like dead men?"
Today is the anniversary of Hiroshima nuclear holocaust.
To particpate in International Shadows Project in memorium of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, contact Jukka Lehmus' Cyanobacteria Page at Grist
On-Line http://www.thing.net./~grist. Catalogues of previous Projects
available from Karl Young's Light and Dust Page at same URL, as is
Young's poem Three, Hiroshima which uses English equivalents of words
from Flaubert's Trois Contes and Resnais' film Hiroshima Mon Amour.
Participation in hopes to change Melville's lines "On errands of
life, these letters speed to death".
the river vanishes/clusters of petrified promises/carpeted with
flowers/wild iris/tortured iron/dawn watches/noon waits/sunset makes
promises/bells ring in darkness/the temperature of warm oceans
--from Three, Hiroshima by Karl Young
--db chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:30:27 GMT+1200
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From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: Italian post
Excellent, George. Good to have what Eileen said confirmed. It was "true": you
saw it on TV. I have no head for dates, but I thought she told me
this in 1976. Either it happened more than once, or my memory is
wrong. Think: no phone or power bills etc: social chaos. "People want
delivery".
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:31:08 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: MAXINE CHERNOFF <maxpaul@SFSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hiroshima & Shadows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960806140936.28698A-100000@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
Many years ago when I was a younger poet (and not yet fiction writer), I
wrote a prose poem on the subject of the dead letter office. Text
follows:
Wistfulness covers the windows like drapes. Ten men,
armed with hankies, sort the mail into two categories, letters that make
them happy, letters that make them sad. Don't get me wrong. These civil
servants, trusted with the awesome duty of burning millions of letters a
year, do not open the envelopes like a mortician prying into the life of a
client. It isthe envelope itself that makes them sad. Childish
handwriting scrawled to a deceased aunt makes them weep. A letter from
overseas to a wife who has moved, unknown to her husband, creates such
tumult that the walls quiver like jelly. Few letters are happy ones, the
eviction notice never delivered, the lost bill. But when a happy letter
comes into their possession, it's a red letter day. The men cheer wildly,
tear up letters and toss them out of the window, tickertape fashion. ANd
what bliss when something intervenes and a doomed letter, like a
terminally ill patient, is saved.
Maxine Chernoff
On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Christina Fairbank Chirot wrote:
> Re Melville's "Dead letters! does it not sound like dead men?"
>
> Today is the anniversary of Hiroshima nuclear holocaust.
> To particpate in International Shadows Project in memorium of
> Hiroshima and Nagasaki, contact Jukka Lehmus' Cyanobacteria Page at Grist
> On-Line http://www.thing.net./~grist. Catalogues of previous Projects
> available from Karl Young's Light and Dust Page at same URL, as is
> Young's poem Three, Hiroshima which uses English equivalents of words
> from Flaubert's Trois Contes and Resnais' film Hiroshima Mon Amour.
>
> Participation in hopes to change Melville's lines "On errands of
> life, these letters speed to death".
>
> the river vanishes/clusters of petrified promises/carpeted with
> flowers/wild iris/tortured iron/dawn watches/noon waits/sunset makes
> promises/bells ring in darkness/the temperature of warm oceans
>
> --from Three, Hiroshima by Karl Young
>
> --db chirot
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:41:16 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: disgruntled postal workers, dead mail & Bartleby
My favourite US fiction re the post office isnt _Bartleby_ and it isnt "Why
I lIve at the PO" (tho the latter is the source of the name of the e-mail
system I am using right now). It is Richard Wright's _Lawd Today_.
George Bowering. "a workingman shd/ be alone
2499 West 37th Ave., with his mind,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 whatever that is ."
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca --Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:02:25 +0100
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From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: disgruntled postal workers, dead mail & Bartleby
This is Dodie Bellamy.
US fiction re the post office:
=46rom the Eudora manual, Version 1.5:
"When I was looking for a name for my new Post Office Protocol mail
program, I thought immediately of the title of a short story I=B9d read year=
s
before: 'Why I Live at the P.O.' So I named the program after the author
of the story, Eudora Welty.
"'Why I Live at the P.O.' can be found in a collection titled A Curtain of
Green (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich). I highly recommend reading it, and
anything else you can find by Ms. Welty. Her stories are funny, sad, and
fascinating; she=B9s surely one of the great American writers."
=8B Steve Dorner
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:14:00 -0500
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From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: disgruntled postal workers
Re postal workers, memorials, unions--and dreams:
An interesting book concerning postal workers and the male:
Charles Olson's The Post Office A memoir of his Father (Grey Fox
Press, available at SPD and Woodland Pattern) which concerns Olson pere's
efforts on behalf of the mail carriers' union. These efforts were much
hampered, leading to the senior Olson's loss of joy in life and early
death according to his son, who also worked as a mail carrier during
summers off from school.
The story of the father linked significantly to the "Pilgrim fathers":
. . . the trouble out of which his death came was born fourteen
years earlier . . . .
I can date it that exactly because it was his determination to
take me to the celebration at Plymouth of the 300th anniversary of the
Pilgrim landing that aggravated the situation his superiors at the Post
Office had provoked.
The dreams of postal workers--the dream castle built in France by
postman in his spare time . . .
. . . the mail/male and analysis: The Purloined Letter & its
Lacanian readings . . .
--and Elvis: "Return to Sender"
--db chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:41:38 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Italian post
Yeah, I am looking at my backlog of e-mail and wondering whether I can
remember how to drive a bulldozer.
George Bowering. "a workingman shd/ be alone
2499 West 37th Ave., with his mind,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 whatever that is ."
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca --Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:46:45 -0700
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: disgruntled postal workers
Couple of years ago Bruce Serafin published a wonderful narrative about
working in the post office, in _Vancouver Review_.
George Bowering. "a workingman shd/ be alone
2499 West 37th Ave., with his mind,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 whatever that is ."
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca --Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 01:00:53 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 4 Aug 1996 to 5 Aug 1996
While I attempt to confine Slam poetry -- Hannah Weiner and Doug Oliver,
among others, have won Slams at the Nuyorican -- I send along my own
experience with...
The Italian Postal System
First all the envelopes are dipped.
For this purpose, giant scald cauldrons
Are used, the very ones that Caesar Augustus
Had ordered brought from Egypt for use as boneboilers
By the Capuchin monks. During the Dip
A strike probably occurs. The vats
Are then generally purged by all passing caribinieri
Whose uzis have been recently lost, but if not,
The steam, which has been clinging to the ever-
Changing ceiling frescoes, is revaporized
And thereafter recondensed several times by means
Of centrifugal coolants, with diffrent centrifugal coolant
Manufacturers employed in the North, Central
And Southern Postal Universes. This process quite often replicates
The original addresses directly upon the appropriate
"Lost While In Transit" cards. Thus ends the Dip.
The donkeys are led out, and attached to the carts,
Each bearing the Postal Code Numbers, or, for International,
A System of Carrots, the sizes and expressive shapes
Of which have all been translated into a Code of the
World's Regions. Complex to the casual viewer, one
Italian family has been arranging these carrots
For centuries, and the Annual Festival of the Carrots,
Held in Gubbio but celebrated throughout Italy,
Is cause for great festivities throughout
The Postal System, and any letters in the carrot-id'ed
Carts during this period (usually the month of July,
But sometimes extending into August or even September)
Are treated like good friends and are never allowed
To leave. Many other elements, remnants of previous Postal
Systems, abound, with meanings lost in time but which
Still provide glimmers of the ancient ways, and for many
Are, indeed, a palimpsest of life itself. That
The whole actually functions, and that one can,
By placing one's tongue directly on the tiny wafer-
Like stamp, actually participate in this oldest
Of rituals, is a miracle open to everyone.
Bob Holman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 01:17:34 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: postal reclassification seminars
You may be interested to know god my fingers are cold that each piece of
mail that a postal ocr cannot process is looked at by a video camera, which
transmission is sent to god california is cold! a video optical character
center in west virginia or montana or arizona. if after a minute the
minimum wage typist can't read your red fancy ink zip (not plus four) then
someone at the station you dropped the piece picks it up says,, mmm wonder
where this goes.
BARCODE!
Love,
Your poetics grump,
Jordan
Jordan Davis
46 e 7 #10
nyc 10003 I believe
212 598 0553 Spumoni $1.00
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:17:01 GMT+1200
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From: wystan <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: poetry and speed
dear list,
I know its summer for most of you all, but its peak season down
here and i've been asked to think about poetry and speed --not that
which you are on but what you are at. I wondered about developing 20 or
so propositions before putting out this APB but then speed IS of the
essence and why wait? So while I work at those I'd be grateful for any
tips, pointers, theories, multi-volume treatises you can put my way,very
grateful.
yours in haste,
wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 03:27:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: re poetry & speed
A Crash Course in Poetry & Speed//Speed Reading
Emerson's The Poet: Language is vehicular
Pound's ABC of Reading: Keeping the language efficient
WCWilliams' Intro to The Wedge: Poem as machine
Olson's Projectivist Verse: FASTER FASTER FASTER
Yet--slow down reading by their methods of notation, use of space
of page, types of markings, spacings--ideograms, documents, heiroglyphs--
Speed of poetry vs. speed reading
Kerouac: Writing is silent meditation going a hundred miles an hour.
Kerouac, from Vanity of Duluoz:
(Insofar as nobody loves my dashes anyway, I'll use regular
punctuation for the new illiterate generation.)
Virilio in Pure War says there should be a Museum of Accidents, Collisions
speed of poetry in relation to state and property (Pound &
Emerson's Land-lord, air-lord sea-lord poet--Marinetti's parole in
liberta and Fascist state--
speed of poetry & the local: wcw & Olson
kerouac's speed: memory and sound--sketching
is speed "immediacy and force" (Eigner) or eidetic?
speed in relation to words as things
"Poetry in motion"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:25:26 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: poetry and speed
In-Reply-To: <337BCD069FC@engnov1.auckland.ac.nz>
On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, wystan wrote:
> dear list,
> I know its summer for most of you all, but its peak season down
> here and i've been asked to think about poetry and speed --not that
> which you are on but what you are at. I wondered about developing 20 or
> so propositions before putting out this APB but then speed IS of the
> essence and why wait? So while I work at those I'd be grateful for any
> tips, pointers, theories, multi-volume treatises you can put my way,very
> grateful.
> yours in haste,
> wystan
>
not too fast, wystan... remember Ed Dorn's line from _Slinger_:
"Speed is not necessarily fast"
(SLINGER in fact is interesting in relation to speed)
on a slow hazy morning in Albany,
Pierre
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:45:42 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: hen <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: poetry and speed
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:17:01 GMT+1200 from
<w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
speed response: first thing I think of when you say "poetry & speed"
is "Cape Hatteras" section of H. Crane's _The Bridge_. [You.are.reading.
a.programmed.reply.Neuron.receptor.wired.to.hard.disk.for.intellect.
enhancement.Do.not.reply.to.this.robot.] - H. Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:07:12 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: poetry and speed
Marinetti et al.?
Projective Verse
's INSTANTER?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:09:51 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Calls for papers; history of text
From: MX%"JEROSE@drew.edu" 6-AUG-1996 22:40:33.47
To: MX%"SHARP-L@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu"
CC:
Subj: SHARP Conference and Journal
X-VMS-To: IN%"SHARP-L@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:37:10 -0400
Reply-To: JEROSE@drew.edu
From: Jonathan Rose <JEROSE@drew.edu>
Subject: SHARP Conference and Journal
To: Multiple recipients of list SHARP-L <SHARP-L@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 06-Aug-1996 10:09pm EST
From: Rose, Jonathan
JEROSE
Dept: FAC/STAFF
Tel No: (201)-408-3545
TO: Press SH to view recipients.
Subject: SHARP Conference and Journal
CALL FOR PAPERS AND CONTRIBUTORS
The Society for the History of Authorship, Reading and Publishing
solicits proposals for its fifth annual conference and contributions for
its new scholarly journal, *Book History*.
SHARP will meet 4-7 July 1997 at the University of Cambridge. We
welcome proposals for papers dealing with the creation, diffusion, or
reception of script or print in any historical period. There are no
limitations on topics. Proposals for either individual papers (20 minutes
in length) or full panels (comprising a chair and three papers) may be
submitted. We may also sponsor workshops devoted to shorter, more
informal presentations of works in progress.
Proposals (one page maximum per paper) and inquiries about the
conference itself (including requests for advance booking forms) should be
sent to:
James Raven
SHARP Conference Programme Committee
51 Sherlock Close
Cambridge CB3 0HP
United Kingdom
The absolute deadline for receipt of proposals is 20 November
1996. Four travel grants of $250 each will be offered to graduate
students who present papers at the conference: to apply, simply indicate
in your cover letter that you wish to be considered for this award. All
other participants and presenters will be expected to pay their own
expenses, including the registration fee; so please submit proposals only
if you can arrange for your own funding.
SHARP is also launching a new juried scholarly journal, *Book
History*. It will be a hardcover annual edited by Ezra Greenspan and
Jonathan Rose, and published by Penn State Press.
*Book History* is devoted to every aspect of the history of the
book, broadly defined as the history of the creation, dissemination, and
reception of script and print. It will publish research on the social,
economic, and cultural history of authorship, editing, printing, the book
arts, publishing, the book trade, periodicals, newspapers, ephemera,
copyright, censorship, literary agents, libraries, literary criticism,
canon formation, literacy, literary education, reading habits, and reader
response. *Book History* will be published in English, but it welcomes
articles dealing with any national literature. Publication of the first
issue is scheduled for August 1998.
Articles dealing with any part of the American hemisphere or the
Middle East should be submitted to Prof. Ezra Greenspan, Department of
English, University of South Carolina, Columbia, SC 29208, USA,
ezra.greenspan@scarolina.edu. Articles dealing with other parts of the
world should be submitted to Prof. Jonathan Rose, Department of History,
Drew University, Madison, NJ 07940, USA, jerose@drew.edu. Send one hard
copy and a WordPerfect diskette for each article.
To obtain information on joining SHARP and subscribing to SHARP
publications -- or to request a free sample copy of the SHARP newsletter
-- contact the Membership Secretary, Dr. Linda Connors, Drew University
Library, Madison, NJ 07940, USA, lconnors@drew.edu.
[Other lists and print publications please copy]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:10:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: re poetry & speed
paul virilio
and nietzsche on "tempo" --fn was one of the first to compose on the typewriter,
along w/ mark twain.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:22:04 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: jeffrey peterson
jeffrey,
are you out there? rsvp backchannel--i have some oppen chit-chat to share.
burt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:21:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: query
In-Reply-To: <009A67D2.BE1066A0.150@admin.njit.edu>
Would anybody have the address or know the whereabouts of the translator
Eric Selland -- or have an address for Leech Books -=- thanks -- Pierre
(backchannel's best)
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Form fascinates when one no longer has the force
Dept. of English | to understand force from within itself. That
SUNY Albany | is, to create." -- Jacques Derrida
Albany NY 12222 |
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | "Poetry is the promise of a language."
email: | -- Friedrich Holderlin
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:53:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Alexander <chax@MTN.ORG>
Subject: changing
back in minneapolis for two weeks before moving to tucson
but also changing computer & modem, so just in case this is the last message
i can get out, I will give details on address change.
for mail arriving by august 16, 1996:
chax press (and/or charles alexander)
box 19178
minneapolis, mn 55419-0178
for mail arriving after august 16, 1996:
chax press (and/or charles alexander)
box 848
tucson, az 85701-0848
If there's a doubt as to when the mail will arrive, please send to the
tucson address, as that box is open even now, although no one will be there
to pick up that mail until after august 16.
thank you,
charles alexander
chax press
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 08:04:17 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: poetry and speed
Hi, Wystan, do you mean maxims like : "Get it down real quick, before
you forget it, or before you get waylaid by self-censorship".
That kind of speed? It would be speedier to phone you, but yr
question is in this public space, so I'll do it the slow way. See you
at the A.C.A.G. lunch-time. Best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 08:15:25 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Charred Italian leaves
Hey Signor Postino look and see / if there's a lettera there for
me...
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:15:54 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: poetry and speed
>Projective Verse
>'s INSTANTER?
Oh!
I always thought that was "instant er" as in "immediate uh"
George Bowering. "a workingman shd/ be alone
2499 West 37th Ave., with his mind,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 whatever that is ."
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca --Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:12:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: poetry and speed
Well, yeah, I remember the Ed Dorn quip. But remember, Yogi Berra said
"It's getting late early."
George Bowering. "a workingman shd/ be alone
2499 West 37th Ave., with his mind,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 whatever that is ."
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca --Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:17:02 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: South African Boy Faces Death Row in Mississippi (fwd)
I couldn't find out more about this. Does anyone else know anything?
gab.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Resent-From: Anthony Alessandrini <aalessan@eden.rutgers.edu>
Joedeu-Forgey Elisa Von wrote:
From: jvon@sas.upenn.edu (Joedeu-Forgey Elisa Von)
> From: "Elaine Salo, Anthro Grad Student" <ANTGES@ANTHRO.EMORY.EDU>
> This from the National Coalition against the Death Penalty, located
> in Washington DC
> elaine salo
>
> NCADP "STOP KILLING KIDS!" ALERT:
>
> INTERNATIONAL ACTION NEEDED TO KEEP S.AFRICAN BOY OFF OF DEATH ROW
>
> PLEASE ACT NOW.
>
> PLEASE FORWARD.
>
> CASE BRIEF:
>
> After surviving some of Apartheid's most turbulent years, a South African
> child faces the death penalty in Mississippi for a crime in which he was
> little more than a bystander.
> Azikiwe Kambule came to the United States two years ago with his mother.
> Azi had no trouble adjusting academically; he received excellent grades, was
> placed in honors classes and joined the school choir. Yet, Azi found himself
> under immense social pressure -- he didn't look, speak or dress like other
> children in his neighborhood.
> Azi wanted to "fit in" with his peers, and not be the subject of their
> ridicule. He met and started spending time with youth who were older and
> very street-wise. When Azi's grades began to drop, his parents began to
> worry that his new friends were the wrong crowd. Fearing the worst, they
> decided to scrape together the funds to send Azi to a boarding school.
> Tragically, it was already too late.
> One evening, Azi found himself in the middle of a car-jacking in which a
> young African American woman was killed. Azi himself was so far away from
> the crime scene that he did not hear the gunshots. When arrested, he was
> the only one to cooperate with the police. He fully explained the terrible
> series of events and tried repeatedly to help the authorities in their
> investigation.
> Despite having no criminal record, no history of violence, being merely a
> bystander and providing his full cooperation, Azi has been charged as an
> accomplice to capital murder. Mississippi is seeking the death penalty
> against Azi, a child in the tenth grade.
> The situation in which Azi finds himself speaks volumes about the use of the
> death penalty against children. During this decade, only five nations in the
> world are known to have executed persons for crimes they committed when under
> 18-years-old. Those countries are Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia . . .
> and the United States. Of these five, America has executed the most. A
> condemned child in the United States also tends to be of darker hue -- 66% of
> those persons sentenced to death as children have been from racial
> minorities. And nowhere is the international rule of law more clear than
> the prohibition on the use of the death penalty against children. The
> International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the United States
> has ratified, clearly states that the "sentence of death shall not be imposed
> for crimes committed by persons below the age of eighteen." Indeed, every
> major human rights treaty in the world has the same express wording.
> Azi sits today in a Mississippi jail cell, with his life hanging in the
> balance. The District Attorney wishes to seal Azi's fate, and is quoted in
> the local newspaper as saying that because the "jurors in [predominantly
> black] Hinds County have a reputation for refusing to vote for the death
> penalty," he moved Azi's trial to a predominantly white county where the
> outcome would be more certain, if not predictable.
> Azi is a child who has suffered from human rights abuses throughout his
> brief life -- first in South Africa, and now in the United States. Yet, the
> errors in his childhood should not prove fatal. He deserves our passion--
> not poison. Please join the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty
> in our efforts to save Azi's life.
>
> 4 THINGS YOU CAN DO RIGHT NOW TO HELP SAVE AZI:
>
> 1) FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS AND PRESS CONTACTS
>
> 2) WRITE THE D.A.:
> ---Azi is a South African child who has no history of violence or prior
> run-ins with the law; was so far away from the murder that he did not even
> hear the gun shots; and has fully cooperated with the police.
> There is no reason why DA Kitchens should be seeking to kill him or put him
> behind bars for the rest of his life!
> -----JAMES KITCHENS, ESQ. / MADISON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY/P.O. BOX 121/
> CANTON, MS 39046/ (601) 859-8880-fax /(601) 859-7838-phone.
>
> 3)MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD:
> Please contact the following news organizations:
> --Clarion-Ledger Newspaper
> letters@jackson.gannett.com
>
> --WLBT T.V. News
> WLBT@teclink.com
>
> --Jackson Advocate Newspaper (Black owned &operated)
> 300 N.Farish Street
> Jackson,MS 39202
> 1(601) 948-4125--fax
>
>
> IF YOU WOULD LIKE MORE INFORMATION OR ARE INTERESTED IN HELPING TO RAISE
> MONEY FOR AZI'S DEFENSE PLEASE CONTACT THE NCADP AT "NCADP1@aol.com" or
> 1-800-347-2411, ext.5
>
> NOTE: The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty (NCADP) was
> founded in 1976. Our affiliates include several large civil rights,
> religious and political organizations, and over 100 state and local
> anti-death penalty groups. We are located at 918 F.Street, NW Washington,
> DC 20024. Our phone number is 1(202) 347-2411. Our e-mail address in
> "NCADP1@AOL.COM."
>
>
--- from list postcolonial@lists.village.virginia.edu ---
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 19:42:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Polish children's song
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.93.960807131423.1408A-100000@uhunix5>
OK, here's one really obscure/abstruse for y'all: I need help tracking
down a children's song in Polish which is about crows and begins with the
refrain "Caw, caw, caw," although without any Ginsbergian "Lord Lord
Lord" in it. I swear this is for a poem. Please help a fellow Polack who
married Irish.
Gwyn McVay
no, that doesn't mean green champagne
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 23:03:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 4 Aug 1996 to 5 Aug 1996
>Hannah Weiner and Doug Oliver,
among others, have won Slams at the Nuyorican
Bob,
when did Hannah read at the Nuyorican?
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:58:13 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: george hartley <gehartle@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: re poetry & speed
Christina Fairbank's
>
> "Poetry in motion"
the Indigo Girls? on this list at last!
the speed of cultural transmission (Virginia Woolf, Galileo)
the speed of light in the poetry of the stars at night
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 07:52:25 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Henry Gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Upcoming reading (Rhode Island)
Comments: To: cap-l@tc.umn.edu
For anyone in the Rhode Island area: on Thursday, August 15th at 8 pm
Beth Anderson & Keith Waldrop will be reading at Native Gallery,
387 Charles St, Providence. The current five-artist exhibit will
also be open.
Native Gallery is a large new space just beyond the Prov. Main Post
Office, in a former factory complex across from the entrance to
Rt 146. For more info or directions, call the gallery at 521-3554,
or email me at Henry_Gould@brown.edu.
Reading sponsored by the Poetry Mission, first of a series at the gallery
in conjunction with new shows. Next reading will be Fri. Sept 6th
and will feature RI poets Sylvia Moubayed & Stuart Blazer.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 09:21:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 4 Aug 1996 to 5 Aug 1996
In message <960807230356_254618519@emout13.mail.aol.com> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> >Hannah Weiner and Doug Oliver,
> among others, have won Slams at the Nuyorican
>
> Bob,
> when did Hannah read at the Nuyorican?
>
> --Rod
yeah, i wanna know about this too. what did she read, and what 's her reading
like in general?--md
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:49:17 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: re poetry & speed
who are the Indigo Girls, and in what way are they fast?
George Bowering. "a workingman shd/ be alone
2499 West 37th Ave., with his mind,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 whatever that is ."
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca --Paul Blackburn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:50:53 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: clear-cut
herb announced the pending release of *clear-cut*, an anthology
of seattle-area poets, and mentioned that a website version would
also be forthcoming... it is now up, & is worth a visit:
http://www.speakeasy.org/clear-cut/
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 12:34:47 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Yet another SF reading
Idiom Presents
a reading with
Dodie Bellamy and Alicia Wing
Tuesday, August 13, 7:30 p.m.
at Four Walls Gallery
3160A 16th Street (entrance on Albion)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 19:35:26 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: wystan <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Speed
Dear list,
this is good. Speed, poets, it not only a matter of rush
rush rush though. Vorticists are fast, projectivists are fast. What
IS the hurry? What about slow? Is slow also a value? I think I would
like someone to put in a good word for slow. Fast poems, slow readings?
Does poetry speed up or slow down relative to the culture? TV and movies
have been getting faster over the years and what does that have to do
with it? There's some question of the general economy also. What
thoughts do you have on this tonight, good list people? I am at my post.
wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 20:49:06 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Leddy <cfml@EIU.EDU>
Subject: disgruntled postal workers
In-Reply-To: <199608080402.AAA07412@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Re Italian postal service: In their essay "Social Time: The Heartbeat of
Culture," Robert Levine and Ellen Wolff report an average time of 47
seconds to sell a single stamp in Rome and Florence. (I came across this
essay in a freshman comp anthology.)
And re disgruntled postal workers and lit--as of y'day's log, no one had yet
mentioned Charles Bukowski's novel _Post Office_.
Michael Leddy / Charleston, IL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:00:33 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: Re: re poetry & speed
In-Reply-To: <ae2f2319000210045c11@[140.254.113.105]>
On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, george hartley wrote:
> Christina Fairbank's
> >
> > "Poetry in motion"
>
> the Indigo Girls? on this list at last!
> the speed of cultural transmission (Virginia Woolf, Galileo)
> the speed of light in the poetry of the stars at night
>
Thank you, George, but credit for those poetry & speed posts goes to
David Baptiste Chirot who is logged into POETICS via my address -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 03:09:16 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: Re: re poetry & speed (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:00:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list POETICS <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: re poetry & speed
On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, george hartley wrote:
> Christina Fairbank's
> >
> > "Poetry in motion"
>
> the Indigo Girls? on this list at last!
> the speed of cultural transmission (Virginia Woolf, Galileo)
> the speed of light in the poetry of the stars at night
>
Thank you, George, but credit for those poetry & speed posts goes to
David Baptiste Chirot who is logged into POETICS via my address -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 07:47:45 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Speed
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 9 Aug 1996 19:35:26 GMT+1200 from
<w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
slowness. there was a thread related to this about 9 months ago. Talent
is often a very slow learner. Slow, stubborn, meticulous. Einstein,
Cezanne [there are probably better examples]. Stein, Whitman. The slow
growth process bumps up against the speed-idols of the avant-garde.
The aged turtles often win the race (but it depends on what race you
think you're running). America, of course, they say is becoming a nation
of aged turtles (I don't know abt New Zealand). In a turtle race,
the FAST aged turtle wins. (speaking of which, Herbert Huncke passed
away this week, age 81).
- from "Turtle Island", Hank "slo-poke" Gould
p.s. see
Frost's amazing wedding sonnet for his daughter, wish I could remember
the lines, about speed - how they will win by standing still, "wing
to wing and oar to oar".
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 10:33:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Slam Stats
Hey Maria,
I participated in some group performances of Hannah's work at the Church in
the late 70s-early 80s. They cry for multi-voice, eh? and each of us (I think
Bernadette and Sharon Matlin were involved) were different tones/speeds,
mainly using the map of the lines as a score.
But Hannah reads as she writes, like a journal, the Real Thing, just get it
down. She seems em on yr forehead, she writes em down. Also that amazing
journal when she was locked in the doorless room, fasting.
Offhand is the best brilliance. She did well at the Slam because she always
reads so true and affectless, the crowd was stunned into understanding. We
were welcome in her world. In another world there is a monotone, a matter of
factness belying the quickcutting synapse-leaping Stein-sinking poetry.
BoHo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 10:06:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Slam Stats
Rod, I don't hae access to my Complete Slam Stats file here, but I'm pretty
sure it was spring or fall of 1990.
BobH
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 10:01:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Buland al-Haidari
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96080908031583@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
The Kurdish Iraqi poet Buland al-Haidari died on Tuesday in London where
he had been living in exile since 1982. He was 70. Early on a member of
the avant-garde group "The Lost Time Group," & one of first f
proponents in Arab poetry during the 40ies. A communist sympathizer &
political activist he was exiled & fled to Lebanon in 1963.
His books include _The Throb of Clay_ (1946), _You came at Dawn_
(1961),_Steps in Exile_ (1965) & ,many more, though only a few have been
translated inti English. His last collection, _Alleyways of Exile" was
published last week in London. Here is the title poem from the 1968
collection _Journey of the Yellow Letters_, translated by John Mikhail
Asfour (in: _When the Words Burn: An Anthology of Modern Arabic Poetry
1945-1987_):
JOURNEY OF THE YELLOW LETTERS
For a thousand years, children of my poor village
we have been the yellowed letters
in the Torah
and the Qu'ran
and the New Testament,
the encrusted blade of the chisel
carving our frightful shadows in your eyes --
shadows you
worshipped in your hearts,
shadows that became a history void of men.
Each letter swells, and sometimes is
a minaret that stands in prayer;
a church, sometimes, in the dreary mountains;
sometimes black nooses
and ropes.
In sad villages your streets know them,
your sins know them.
For a thousand years
we have been the yellowed letters in the New Testament
and the Totah
and the Qur'an,
the letters of mould
daily manifested
in every shameful pregnancy,
in idols,
in the aoppressor's whip
in God, in Satan
but not once in a human being.
For a thousand years, children of my poor village
we have slept the long sleep of history
and worshipped our frightful shadows in your eyes
(September 1968)
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poetic knowledge...is the knowledge of finitude,
Dept. of English | of words and things that happen once and
SUNY Albany | once only, measurable but not repeatable, the
Albany NY 12222 | intuitions of _nonstatistical_ probabilities
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | that are _creative_, not merely re-creative
email: | (or recreational)." -- Don Byrd
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:04:14 -0400
Reply-To: Pierre Joris <joris@csc.albany.edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Buland al-Haydari
correction: a typoglitch in my note on Buland al-Haydari mangled a line
which should have read:
"early on a member of the avant-garde group "The Lost Time Group," & one
of first proponents of free-verse"
Pierre
=======================================================================
Pierre Joris | "Poetic knowledge...is the knowledge of finitude,
Dept. of English | of words and things that happen once and
SUNY Albany | once only, measurable but not repeatable, the
Albany NY 12222 | intuitions of _nonstatistical_ probabilities
tel&fax:(518) 426 0433 | that are _creative_, not merely re-creative
email: | (or recreational)." -- Don Byrd
joris@cnsunix.albany.edu|
=======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:43:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <bernstei@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Speed and Hannah Weiner
Hannah Weiner is one of the truly great performers of the time. The best
record of this is the New Wilderness Audiographics tape of Hannah reading
with Sharon Matlin and Peggy DeKoursey: Hannah reads the roman type (diary
voice), and Peggy reads the italics (mostly comments) and Sharon reads the
CAPS (give instructions); both italics and Caps are "words seen"for me it's
the best realization of polyvocality I know of. James Sherry and I once
performed with Hannah and it was interesting to see how exacting her
directions for our reading were. She had a very specific pace in mind and
also wanted a precise adherence to the text. This is partly because she had
an auditory vision of exactly what the text sounded like. (I have a copy of
this performance and someday may be able to put it up on the web as a
soundfile!) Hannah is also featured on the Live at the Ear CD and you can
get some sense of her speed reading from that.
Hannah always said to me she couldn't stand slow readers at poetry
readings and that applied to virtually all readings by fiction writers. In
her earlier work she would fill the page up without any space or margin
partly to transmit the electric sense of speed that pulses through the
writing. White space was a vacuum that she abhorred or sucked up.
I have a bibliography of Weiner books, mss and reviews that I did in 1990
and have today updated; I will try to bring to put it up on the EPC as soon
as I can. I will also send a version out to Poetics now. There are a
couple of queries in that and no doubt some errors; any help appreciated.
***
As I think I probably mention on the list before, I wrote "Introjective
Verse" (now out in the new CHAIN) in response to the editors (Pierre Alferi
and Olivier Cadiot) of a French magazine "Revue Generale de Litterature"
wanting a piece on Olson's "Projective Verse" for an issue they were doing
on "speed". I wanted to do something on slowing down, along the line Wystan
suggests in his post.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:43:05 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <bernstei@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Hannah Weiner bibliography
HANNAH WEINER:=20
MS/Book Chronology
1966 Magritte Poems (Sacramento: Poetry Newsletter, 1970). 11pp.
Nonclairvoyantly written, short poems.
1968 The Code Poems (Barrytown: Open Studio, 1982). 29pp.
1970 The Fast. 50pp ms. Sections published in Acts #4, United Artists #14,
and Blue Smoke #1 (in that order); (New York: United Artists, 1992).
1971 Country Girl. 18pp ms. Descriptive journal about seeing auras.
1972 Pictures and Early Words. app. 69pp. -- untyped. Seeing pictures and
early versions of seen words.
1973 The 1973 Journal. app. 200pp ms; short segment in This # 7. Has caps
and quoted words for words seen.
1974 Clairvoyant Journal. 180pp ms. About one-third published in Angel
Hair edition, 64 pp. (1978: Lenox, Mass). Other sections in up to two
dozen magazines, and in Sun June 9, 5 pp. (Providence: Diana's Bimonthly,
1975). Audiocasette from New Wilderness Audiogrpahics (wth Peggy DeCoursey
and Sharon Matlin), c. 1976 (New Wilderness taped the whole Journal and
published March and April. Videotape (1974 solo reading): New York:
Internmedia Foundation, 1985.
1976 Little Girl Books. Four small notebooks.
1977-80 Little Books/Indians (New York: Roof Books, 1980). 91pp.
1980 Nijole's House (Needham, Mass.: Potes & Poets Press, 1981). =
24pp.
1981 Spoke (College Park, MD: Sun & Moon Press, 1984). 115pp.
1982 Sixteen (Windsor, VT: Awede Press, 1983). 16pp.
1984 Written In/The Zero One (Victoria, Australia: Post Neo, 1985). 21pp.
1986 Weeks (Ann Arbor: Xexoxial, 1990). 50pp. Published with=
audiocasette.
1988 Abazoo. 13pp ms.
1989 Seen Words with It. 20 ms.=20
1989 The Book of Revelations. 106 shaped pages in notebook.
1989-91 Silent Teachers / Remembered Sequel (Providence: Tender Buttons,=
1993)
1992- Visions and Silent Musicians. Ms in progress.
1993-4. We Speak Silent. 89pp ms.=20
ESSAYS
"Criticism of My Hannah Fool", Margins 21/22 (1975).
"Capitalist Useless Phrases after Endless", The L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3D=
E Book, ed.
Bruce Andrews & Charles Bernstein (Carbondale: Southern Illinois University
Press, 1984).
"Skies III from This 11 and quote the page", The Difficulties, Ron Silliman
issue (1985).
"Mostly about the Sentence", Jimmy and Lucy's House of "K" 7 (1986).
"Excerpts from an Interview with Hannah Weiner" by Charles Bernstein, The
Line in Postmodern Poetry, ed. Robert Frank and Henry Sayre (Urbana:
University of Illinois Press, 1988).
"Research important conflict two obedient", Writing 25 (1990).
"Meaning bus Halifax to Queensbury", Patterns/Contexts/Time, ed. Phillip
Foss & Charles Bernstein (Sante Fe: Tyuonyi 1990).
"If Workshop", Poetry Project Newsletter, February-March 1990.
"Dear Andrew letter peyote, `Dark Ages Clasp the Daisy Root'.
"Two Works", Writing 27 (1992)
"Ubliminal" [part 1], Chain 2 (1995)
"Ubliminal", [part 2], big allis #7(1996)
"Plus Title", Central Park #19/20 (1991)
"Blank Verse: A Decidedly Highpoint in the History of English Prosody"
REVIEWS/CRITICISM
Dick Higgins, Sun June 9, Margins 21/22 (1975).
Sharon Mattlin, Clairvoyant Journal, Poetry Showcase at CPGB (1975)
Charles Bernstein, "Making Words Visible" [on The Clairvoyant Journal,
L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE 5 (1978); rpt. The L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=
=3DA=3DG=3DE Book and
Content's Dream (Los Angeles: Sun & Moon, 1986).
Sharon Mattlin, Clairvoyant Journal, Poetry Project Newsletter, May/June=
1979.
Tina Darragh, "Virgin", L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE 11 (1980).
Tim Dlugos, "Perfectly Clairvoyant", Little Books/Indians, The SoHo News,
December 30, 1980.
Barbara Barg, Little Books/Indians, Poetry Project Newsletter, May 1981.
Ron Silliman, Little Books/Indians and Nijole's House, Sulfur 5 (1982),
rpt. The New Sentence (New York: Roof, 1987).
Jeff Wright, Code Poems, East Village Eye, April 1983.
John Perreault, Code Poems, Poetry Project Newsletter, May/June 1983.
Jackson Mac Low, Sixteen & The Code Poems, Poetics Journal 4 (1984).
Tony Green, Code Poems and Sixteen, Splash 2 (Auckland, New Zealand: 1984).
Arlene Stone, "Poets in the Combat Zone", Code Poems, Contact II 36/37=
(1985).
Dennis Barone, "Large Poetic Concerns", Spoke, Contact II 38/39/40 (1985).
Paul Green, Spoke, Reality Studios 7 (London: 1985).
Sherry Quart, Written In/The Zero One, UCSD's Archive Newsletter, Spring=
1987.
Joseph Keppler, "Four by Three", Sixteen & Spoke, Gargoyle 32/33 (1987).
Kathleen Fraser, "Line. On the Line. Lining up. Lined with. Between the
Lines. Bottom Line.", The Line in Postmodern Poetry, ed. Robert Frank and
Herny Sayre (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1988).
Charles Bernstein, "Weak Links", preface to Weeks (Ann Arbor: Xexoial,=
1990)
Johanna Drucker, The Fast. Poetry Project Newsletter Oct/Nov 1992
Mark Wallace, Silent Teachers/Remembered Sequel, Taproot #5 (1994)
Juliana Spahr, "Composition as Explanation", presented at MLA Annual
Convention (1993)
??:
"Blank Verse: A Decidedly High Point in the History of English Prosody":
offprint exists w/o source information
Paul Green, review of several books =97 published in UK 1990s
=97compiled by Charles Bernstein, 1989, updated, 1996; send corrections or
additions to bernstei@acsu.buffalo.edu.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:32:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Thomas M. Orange" <tmorange@BOSSHOG.ARTS.UWO.CA>
Subject: poetry and speed
In-Reply-To: <199608090403.AAA05739@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
One of those old Cademon LP recordings of Eliot reading "The Hollow Men,"
played at 78 rpm. 45 isn't fast enough.
t.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:36:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
Can anyone who knows backchannel me with Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
address? She sent it around on a card a week or two ago, but I can't seem
to find the information.
Thanks.
Mark Wallace
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:47:47 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Conventional Wisdom
This is Dodie Bellamy. Kevin and I will be correspondants for the
Conventional Wisdom webpage, a conceptual art project designed by Margaret
Crane and Jon Winet. Following is a call for submissions for the "From Our
Viewers" section of the site.
>We are writing to see if you'd be interested in being part of the
>project we're working on during the Republican and Democratic
>Conventions. It's a website - Conventional Wisdom -
>that will be published in real time during the festivities
>
>The site resembles a newspaper front page and will contain a
>changing series of images from the conventions and writing from
>around the country. We'd like to invite you contribute to the "From
>Our Viewers" section of the site. This area will contain a series of
>short comments, insights and reactions to the conventions (and the
>surrounding political and social climate).
>
>The site will be running during August 12-15 for the Republican
>National Convention in San Diego and August 26-28 for the
>Democratic National Convention in Chicago. We welcome your
>contributions during that time.
>
>Comments can be sent directly to the site via email. Please post to:
>conwis@parc.xerox.com
>indicate "Comments" in the subject area.
>
>The URL/address for the site is:
>http://www.pair.xerox.com/cw
>
>FYI:
>
>The complete version of Conventional Wisdom is best viewed using a
>JAVA compatible browser. In this version, writing and images will
>change automatically throughout the day. If you're on a PC using
>Netscape 2.0, you'll be able access this version.
>
>There will also be a static version for computers/browsers that will
>not run JAVA. Unfortunately, this includes many Macintoshes. This
>version can be accessed through the same URL/address.
>
>We're looking forward to hearing from you.
>
>Best Regards
>Margaret Crane, Jon Winet
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 20:27:23 PDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charlie King <acapa@ICON.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Introduction of Charlie King
> Hi,
> I'm new on the list. My name is Charlie King, I'm 25 years old and live
> in South Africa. I subscribed to this list because poetry seems to be a
> "neverending attachment to oblivion";-) and I can't get enough of it.
> Right at this moment I don't quite know what it is this list is about
but
> I trust that with a little help from the current subscribed, I will
learn.
> Yours,
> Charlie King
> -------------------------------------
> Name: Charlie King
> E-mail: acapa@icon.co.za
> Date: 07/08/96
> Time: 07:53:54 PM
>
>
> This message was sent by Chameleon
> -------------------------------------
>
>
-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
-------------------------------------
Name:
E-mail: acapa@icon.co.za
Date: 09/08/96
Time: 08:27:23 PM
This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:20:53 -0400
Reply-To: Joseph Lease <lease@husc.harvard.edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joseph Lease <lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: changing
In-Reply-To: <199608071853.NAA16355@freedom.mtn.org>
RE: poetics discussion
It would interest me to start a low-key discussion concerning a
range of postmodern poetics evoked by but not limited to the work of such
poets as John Yau, Fanny Howe, David Shapiro, Susan Howe--with reference
also to Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, Adrienne Rich--
I'm just wondering if there's a forum for
articulating and sharing concerns with lyric practice that cut across so
called party lines and (obviously) share a variety of kinds of concern
with poetic experimentation and politcal and cultural opposition--and--if
such a phrase doesn't seem so neutral--aesthetic and political thought--
so--
All Best,
Joseph Lease-
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 10:58:09 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joel Kuszai <kuszai@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: New Books from Meow Press
Hi everybody, before we begin our (pause) "infomerical" (laughter from
audience) I'd like to take this moment to think back to Orono, you know,
Orono. I want to thank Orono for Melvin Tolson, whom I've found in the
Buffalo Public Library. Funny to think that you can't check out a book of
poetry in buffalo, most poetry existing behind closed stacks. The same is
true for music library too--and the ERie/County-Buffalo public main branch
has a great music section, a mix of 20th sentry music (probably lingering
from the good ol' days at the philharmonic (John Tesh coming this year,
Doc Severinson's holidy opus+)and an interesting selection of music from
around the world--both traditional and contemporary. They let you check
out 10 cds for a week and I'm gettin a real education in music this way.
Anyway, it is okay to have books stored away for safety, for some
future researcher, I suppose. Like music, you have to make the
books you need to read.
On that note, some books are finally available from Meow Press, which is
3years old this month. More books on the way include: Aaron Shurin, CODEX
(with in-laid color reproductions), Stephen Ratcliffe, SENTENCE, Noemie
Maxwell, THRUM, Charles Alexander, FOUR NINETY EIGHT TO SEVEN, Jorge
Guitart, FILM BLANC, Denise Newman, OF LATER THINGS YET TO COME, Deanna
Ferguson, ROUGH BUSH, David Carl, THE LIBRARY, and more (I don't have the
list with me).
Catalogs are available by mail: send queries backchannel to me.
Now Available from Meow Press
Michael Basinski, Hee-Bee Jeebies
7x6.5" 24pg.
$5.00
Natalee Caple, The Price of Acorn
6.5x4.5" 36pg.
$6.00
Wendy Kramer, Patinas
8.5x7" 20pg.
$5.00
Hank Lazer, The Early Days of the Lang Dynasty
6.5x6" 36pg.
$6.00
Jena Osman, Jury
6.5x4.5" 28pg.
$5.00
Meredith Quartermain, Terms of Sale
8.5x7" 48pg.
$6.00
Lisa Robertson, The Descent
8.5x7" 24pg.
$5.00
Lisa Samuels, Letters
7x6.5" 24pg.
$5.00
Gary Sullivan, Dead Man
6.5x5" 32pg.
$6.00
Sullivan & Caple are prose. The whole set of 9 books is available right
now for $40 for poetics-fans. Call today!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:34:13 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Arthur Craven
In-Reply-To: <960717213529_436537557@emout14.mail.aol.com>
Does anyone have info on works about Craven? gab.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:36:48 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: Craven?
>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:34:13 -1000
>From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
>Subject: Arthur Craven
>
>Does anyone have info on works about Craven? gab.
no.
but: you might look in the index of John Shoptaw's book about Ashbery--I
recall that there are some remarks about Ashbery's Craven poem in DDOS--and
I think a footnote or two that might be of some use.
btw what do others make of the Shoptaw book?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 01:42:18 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: Re: poetry in motion
Re: "Poetry in Motion"
Actually the song stuck relentlessly in mind was by Johnny
Tillotson, in 1960, on the Cadence label.
Two years before "The Loco-Motion" by Little Eva on Dimension.
From Poetry on Cadence to Loco on Dimension---
In the immortal words of Bo Diddley:
When you're in the groove
You really got to move
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:27:49 +1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: DS <dpsalmon@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: Speed
Perhaps one should have david eggleton & melville (clarel) reading at the
same time. they are fairly silly examples. on the page, i am in favour of
slow, i like words to come out about the speed that i think. Talking is
pretty fast at the moment & poetry provides a greatly needed contrast. I've
been rereading long poems recently (for a project): the maximus papers,
patterson, homer they have a certain ponderousness which is part of their
reading pleasure. Aloud speed can have advantages but (if you'll excuse a
sport analogy) is more like boxing than sailing. Comes down to the mood i
guess. Sunday nights a slow poetry night.
Sleeping soon,
Dan
At 07:35 PM 8/9/96 GMT+1200, you wrote:
>Dear list,
> this is good. Speed, poets, it not only a matter of rush
>rush rush though. Vorticists are fast, projectivists are fast. What
>IS the hurry? What about slow? Is slow also a value? I think I would
>like someone to put in a good word for slow. Fast poems, slow readings?
>Does poetry speed up or slow down relative to the culture? TV and movies
>have been getting faster over the years and what does that have to do
>with it? There's some question of the general economy also. What
>thoughts do you have on this tonight, good list people? I am at my post.
> wystan
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:31:16 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Speed
"there is more to life than increasing its speed"
--e.f. schumacher (on efficiency)
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:10:25 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@SUNMOON.COM>
Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner bibliography
Thanks for passing on the great Weiner bibliography Charles.
Members of the Poetics List can now get copies of one of Hannah's
best works, SPOKE, for $4.00. Order through our website or
directly through my E-mail address.=20
The website (just a reminder) is http//:www.sunmoon.com. My E-mail
at Sun & Moon is djmess@sunmoon.com.
Sun & Moon will be making new offers for several new titles and older
ones this next week.
Douglas Messerli
At 01:43 PM 8/9/96 -0400, you wrote:
>HANNAH WEINER:=20
>
>MS/Book Chronology
>
>1966 Magritte Poems (Sacramento: Poetry Newsletter, 1970). 11pp.
>Nonclairvoyantly written, short poems.
>
>1968 The Code Poems (Barrytown: Open Studio, 1982). 29pp.
>
>1970 The Fast. 50pp ms. Sections published in Acts #4, United Artists=
#14,
>and Blue Smoke #1 (in that order); (New York: United Artists, 1992).
>
>1971 Country Girl. 18pp ms. Descriptive journal about seeing auras.
>
>1972 Pictures and Early Words. app. 69pp. -- untyped. Seeing pictures=
and
>early versions of seen words.
>
>1973 The 1973 Journal. app. 200pp ms; short segment in This # 7. Has=
caps
>and quoted words for words seen.
>
>1974 Clairvoyant Journal. 180pp ms. About one-third published in Angel
>Hair edition, 64 pp. (1978: Lenox, Mass). Other sections in up to two
>dozen magazines, and in Sun June 9, 5 pp. (Providence: Diana's Bimonthly,
>1975). Audiocasette from New Wilderness Audiogrpahics (wth Peggy=
DeCoursey
>and Sharon Matlin), c. 1976 (New Wilderness taped the whole Journal and
>published March and April. Videotape (1974 solo reading): New York:
>Internmedia Foundation, 1985.
>
>1976 Little Girl Books. Four small notebooks.
>
>1977-80 Little Books/Indians (New York: Roof Books, 1980). 91pp.
>
>1980 Nijole's House (Needham, Mass.: Potes & Poets Press, 1981). =
24pp.
>
>1981 Spoke (College Park, MD: Sun & Moon Press, 1984). 115pp.
>
>1982 Sixteen (Windsor, VT: Awede Press, 1983). 16pp.
>
>1984 Written In/The Zero One (Victoria, Australia: Post Neo, 1985). =
21pp.
>
>1986 Weeks (Ann Arbor: Xexoxial, 1990). 50pp. Published with=
audiocasette.
>
>1988 Abazoo. 13pp ms.
>
>1989 Seen Words with It. 20 ms.=20
>
>1989 The Book of Revelations. 106 shaped pages in notebook.
>
>1989-91 Silent Teachers / Remembered Sequel (Providence: Tender Buttons,=
1993)
>
>1992- Visions and Silent Musicians. Ms in progress.
>
>1993-4. We Speak Silent. 89pp ms.=20
>
>ESSAYS
>"Criticism of My Hannah Fool", Margins 21/22 (1975).
>"Capitalist Useless Phrases after Endless", The L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=
=3DE Book, ed.
>Bruce Andrews & Charles Bernstein (Carbondale: Southern Illinois University
>Press, 1984).
>"Skies III from This 11 and quote the page", The Difficulties, Ron=
Silliman
>issue (1985).
>"Mostly about the Sentence", Jimmy and Lucy's House of "K" 7 (1986).
>"Excerpts from an Interview with Hannah Weiner" by Charles Bernstein, The
>Line in Postmodern Poetry, ed. Robert Frank and Henry Sayre (Urbana:
>University of Illinois Press, 1988).
>"Research important conflict two obedient", Writing 25 (1990).
>"Meaning bus Halifax to Queensbury", Patterns/Contexts/Time, ed. Phillip
>Foss & Charles Bernstein (Sante Fe: Tyuonyi 1990).
>"If Workshop", Poetry Project Newsletter, February-March 1990.
>"Dear Andrew letter peyote, `Dark Ages Clasp the Daisy Root'.
>"Two Works", Writing 27 (1992)
>"Ubliminal" [part 1], Chain 2 (1995)
>"Ubliminal", [part 2], big allis #7(1996)
>"Plus Title", Central Park #19/20 (1991)
>"Blank Verse: A Decidedly Highpoint in the History of English Prosody"
>
>REVIEWS/CRITICISM
>Dick Higgins, Sun June 9, Margins 21/22 (1975).
>Sharon Mattlin, Clairvoyant Journal, Poetry Showcase at CPGB (1975)
>Charles Bernstein, "Making Words Visible" [on The Clairvoyant Journal,
>L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE 5 (1978); rpt. The L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=
=3DA=3DG=3DE Book and
>Content's Dream (Los Angeles: Sun & Moon, 1986).
>Sharon Mattlin, Clairvoyant Journal, Poetry Project Newsletter, May/June=
1979.
>Tina Darragh, "Virgin", L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE 11 (1980).
>Tim Dlugos, "Perfectly Clairvoyant", Little Books/Indians, The SoHo News,
>December 30, 1980.
>Barbara Barg, Little Books/Indians, Poetry Project Newsletter, May 1981.
>Ron Silliman, Little Books/Indians and Nijole's House, Sulfur 5 (1982),
>rpt. The New Sentence (New York: Roof, 1987).
>Jeff Wright, Code Poems, East Village Eye, April 1983.
>John Perreault, Code Poems, Poetry Project Newsletter, May/June 1983.
>Jackson Mac Low, Sixteen & The Code Poems, Poetics Journal 4 (1984).
>Tony Green, Code Poems and Sixteen, Splash 2 (Auckland, New Zealand: 1984).
>Arlene Stone, "Poets in the Combat Zone", Code Poems, Contact II 36/37=
(1985).
>Dennis Barone, "Large Poetic Concerns", Spoke, Contact II 38/39/40 (1985).
>Paul Green, Spoke, Reality Studios 7 (London: 1985).
>Sherry Quart, Written In/The Zero One, UCSD's Archive Newsletter, Spring=
1987.
>Joseph Keppler, "Four by Three", Sixteen & Spoke, Gargoyle 32/33 (1987).
>Kathleen Fraser, "Line. On the Line. Lining up. Lined with. Between the
>Lines. Bottom Line.", The Line in Postmodern Poetry, ed. Robert Frank and
>Herny Sayre (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1988).
>Charles Bernstein, "Weak Links", preface to Weeks (Ann Arbor: Xexoial,=
1990)
>Johanna Drucker, The Fast. Poetry Project Newsletter Oct/Nov 1992
>Mark Wallace, Silent Teachers/Remembered Sequel, Taproot #5 (1994)
>Juliana Spahr, "Composition as Explanation", presented at MLA Annual
>Convention (1993)
>
>??:
>"Blank Verse: A Decidedly High Point in the History of English Prosody":
>offprint exists w/o source information
>Paul Green, review of several books =97 published in UK 1990s
>
>=97compiled by Charles Bernstein, 1989, updated, 1996; send corrections or
>additions to bernstei@acsu.buffalo.edu.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 16:27:40 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <bernstei@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: My Home Pages
A while ago Mark Wallace mentioned my essay "Frame Lock". With the
permission of Jerry McGuire, editor of College Literature, which published
the essay in 1994, I have now put it up on the EPC:
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/bernstein
In June I also put up some "HTML" poems I have been working on, and you can
find these at my home page as well, with links to Kenny Goldsmith terrific
ongoing anthology of visual poetry. My idea for these works was to create
viusal texts that came out working within my word processing program, so
that the "visuality" was less pictoral and more a byproduct of the means
availalbe in this medium to visually represent language (and in this way
related to my other visual texts, such as "Veil" and "Language of Boquets"
that Kenny has samples on his site). I have also put up the syllabus for my
Fall graduate seminar on the Poetics of Translation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hannah Weiner's SPOKE is the longest work of hers published and one of the
best: a good introduction and a must for those interested in Weiner's work:
get them while they last @$4 from Sun & Moon (djmess@sunmoon.com)..
[--How's that for an example of my conventionally evaluative prose
that apparently contradicts my advocacy of a destablizing polyvocality of
language, a point Bob Perelman makes in his new book, just out form
Princeton, The Marginalization of Poetry. Let me be perfectly clear, let me
aver any equivocation on this point: buy that one too and don't waste a
minute getting to it, or not more than a minute, well maybe till Labor Day,
but not longer that, or not too much longer ....:
now let me translate:
let me be efectlky celard
don;t wasted a monet
the suns' sup and the sky
is a limnit of what you
thinkg it might be
some support out small and
enven medium sixed presses
and even the ups th eUPS,
when they publsiher
thingsd lik tyhis]
++++++=============================+++++++++=============
JUST OUT: Bruce Andrews' Pardadise & Method: Poetics & Praxis, his
collected essays going back over 20 years, from Northwestern University Press.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 06:51:31 +0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: Re: Craven?
In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960810213806.3a9f17f8@mail.azstarnet.com>
Regarding Arthur Cravan, I haven't gotten that far in the book yet, but
it seems that Carolyn Burke's bio of Mina Loy has a fair amount of info
about the boxer-poet Cravan, who was her second husband.
Also, for some reason I have always thought (don't know from whence this
information is derived) that Cravan was supposed to be the model for the
hero of Gide's Caves du Vatican (Lafcadio's Adventures).
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 20:17:04 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Tristan D. Saldana" <hbeng175@DEWEY.CSUN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Speed
In-Reply-To: <3690DF72B18@engnov1.auckland.ac.nz>
On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, wystan wrote:
> Does poetry speed up or slow down relative to the culture? TV and movies
> have been getting faster over the years and what does that have to do
> with it?
Good language is always good at getting us to expand our sense of the
present, our presence. The media seems to be inhumanely good at
eliminating the present, and (once again) our presence. A virtue I have
found in paying attention to language is that it puts me in a comfortable
relationship to time . . . enables evaluativeness. Not (an)esthetic, but
an esthetic sedation that helps the 'bash' of the high-threshold lows
created by the "blunting of the senses" that need hourly gratification as
Wordsworth says. The world is too much with us, indeed.
I just heard some great lyrics today by a pretty good poet and not half
bad drummer on this subject . . . how humans, today, live in dog years:
"I'd rather be a tortoise from Galapagos
or a span of geological time . . ."
Tristan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 23:36:05 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Conventional Wisdom
According to the gods at the Poetics list this message was already
distributed--but I never received it. Am I being gas-lighted here? Or did
it fall through the cracks of the massive power-outage that happened this
weekend here on the West Coast? Anyway, here it is again. If everybody
but me already received this, my apologies:
This is Dodie Bellamy. Kevin and I will be correspondants for the
Conventional Wisdom webpage, a conceptual art project designed by Margaret
Crane and Jon Winet. Following is a call for submissions for the "From Our
Viewers" section of the site.
>We are writing to see if you'd be interested in being part of the
>project we're working on during the Republican and Democratic
>Conventions. It's a website - Conventional Wisdom -
>that will be published in real time during the festivities
>
>The site resembles a newspaper front page and will contain a
>changing series of images from the conventions and writing from
>around the country. We'd like to invite you contribute to the "From
>Our Viewers" section of the site. This area will contain a series of
>short comments, insights and reactions to the conventions (and the
>surrounding political and social climate).
>
>The site will be running during August 12-15 for the Republican
>National Convention in San Diego and August 26-28 for the
>Democratic National Convention in Chicago. We welcome your
>contributions during that time.
>
>Comments can be sent directly to the site via email. Please post to:
>conwis@parc.xerox.com
>indicate "Comments" in the subject area.
>
>The URL/address for the site is:
>http://www.pair.xerox.com/cw
>
>FYI:
>
>The complete version of Conventional Wisdom is best viewed using a
>JAVA compatible browser. In this version, writing and images will
>change automatically throughout the day. If you're on a PC using
>Netscape 2.0, you'll be able access this version.
>
>There will also be a static version for computers/browsers that will
>not run JAVA. Unfortunately, this includes many Macintoshes. This
>version can be accessed through the same URL/address.
>
>We're looking forward to hearing from you.
>
>Best Regards
>Margaret Crane, Jon Winet
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:40:23 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Al Filreis <afilreis@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Williams house to be sold
Friends & colleagues:
The NJ section of the NY Times, 8/11/96, reports that WCW's home is for
sale. "Located at 9 Ridge Road in Rutherford. Built more than 100 years
ago. Listed on the NJ and National Registers of Historic Places. Contains
medical office, examining rooms and residence. WCW's son, Dr. William Eric
Williams, continued the pediatric medical practice until he died about a
year ago. His widow and daughter are the sellers."
Asking price $330,000
Annual property taxes $7,806
Listed with ERA Justin Realty, Rutherford, NJ
--Al Filreis
--University of Pennsylvania
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:33:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
yeah me too; i never got one of those postcards, maybe she sent it to the cape,
anyway i did n't gt it and have been trying to send stuff.
xo, md
In message <Pine.3.89.9608091416.A6712-0100000@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> UB Poetics
discussion group writes:
> Can anyone who knows backchannel me with Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
> address? She sent it around on a card a week or two ago, but I can't seem
> to find the information.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mark Wallace
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:34:29 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Speed
on slowness, thich nhat hanh: paraphrased. the more we have to do, the busier
we are, the slower we shd go.
btw: what is a "groove," and how does one get in it; once in it; how shd one
"move?"
md
In message <3690DF72B18@engnov1.auckland.ac.nz> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> Dear list,
> this is good. Speed, poets, it not only a matter of rush
> rush rush though. Vorticists are fast, projectivists are fast. What
> IS the hurry? What about slow? Is slow also a value? I think I would
> like someone to put in a good word for slow. Fast poems, slow readings?
> Does poetry speed up or slow down relative to the culture? TV and movies
> have been getting faster over the years and what does that have to do
> with it? There's some question of the general economy also. What
> thoughts do you have on this tonight, good list people? I am at my post.
> wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:04:52 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Baratier <dave.baratier@MOSBY.COM>
Subject: lost in the supermarket
Tristan,
There is no present. A present is so close it seems obtainable but
when it comes down to the gritty, just far enough of a length to have
some downtime between interstices. Hence the reliance on endings, as
if the history of circadian rhythms were a false premise because some
whiteguy made a newfangled discovery. Throw it all away. Talk about
speed, in the suburbs where to renounce speed through the act of
walking (one which I might add furthers the connection with the
present) is to conflict with the classist version of interior space,
one where the landscape is not to be littered with such apparitions of
outsiders, the marginalized, the crazy, the children walking to the
supermarket. In similitude, the affliction of the lyric is sold to us
as a renunciation of speed, that scenes of an uncertain action of
disjunction should be upheld to create a violence on the eye of a
potential reader whose distance is a recess. The multimedia
elimination of the present (& prescence) is no different in vacuity
than the false asssumption that we can fully appropriate an experience
of the other, just because of the great textual I am. In terms of a
post-modern syndoche, the ghost of a part confronts us, while the
compared whole, or solid core, has dissappeared.
CB: Weiner has a healthy section of work in the new 6ix, including an
essay by Marc DuCharme.
Be well.
David Baratier
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:39:28 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@SUNMOON.COM>
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: ubvm.cc.bfuualo.edu:
host not found)
>Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
>Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@hollywood.cinenet.net>
>Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: ubvm.cc.bfuualo.edu:
host not found)
>To: <djmess@sunmoon.com>
>Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
>
>The original message was received at Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:34:40 -0700 (PDT)
>from ppp74.cinenet.net [198.147.81.74]
>
> ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications -----
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>
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
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> ----- Original message follows -----
>
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> id JAA23676; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:34:40 -0700 (PDT)
>Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:34:40 -0700 (PDT)
>Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960812081042.1d9f2d8e@cinenet.net>
>X-Sender: djmess@cinenet.net (Unverified)
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)
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>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>To: ower-poetics@UBVM.CC.BFUUALO.EDU
>From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@sunmoon.com>
>Subject: New offers from Sun & Moon Press
>
>SPECIAL OFFERS TO THE POETICS LIST
>
>Sun & Moon Press has several new books, which we offering
>for sale to people on the Poetics List for a 20% discount.
>These include:
>
>Rene Crevel's great surrealist novel BABYLON
>Paperback, $12.95
>
>CREDENCE, by Dennis Phillips. The most recent collection
>of poetry by this important Los Angeles-based writer.
>Paper, $10.95
>
>WHERE HEAT LOOMS, by Andre du Bouchet, translated by
>David Mus. One of the most signficant--and the last living--
>of the great French modernist poets. This book represents
>the first of several du Bouchet translations that will be
>published by Sun & Moon. Paper, $12.95
>
>THE BLAZING LIGHTS OF THE SUN, by Rosita Copioli. An im-
>portant contemporary woman Italian poet, translated
>by Renata Treitel. Paper, $11.95
>
>JUDE THE OBSCURE, Thomas Hardy. Yes, you heard right,
>The great classic appears on the Sun & Moon label, reprinted
>from the first American edition of 1896. Paper, $12.95
>
>GHOST IMAGE, by Herve Guibert. Michel Foucault's purported
>lover, died of AIDS in 1991. These are essays on photographer,
>beautifully written and very moving. Paper $13.95
>
>WHAT BECAME WORDS, by Claes Andersson. A major Finnish poet--
>and head of Finnish culture at the moment. Paper $11.95
>
>=====================
>
>We are also offering amazingly low prices on the following
>backlist titles:
>
>As long as you order at least 2 books, you can purchase
>these for $4.00 each.
>
>
>SPOKE, by Hannah Weiner. Paper $7.95
>
>THE YELLOW FLOOR: POEMS 1978-1983 by Gil Ott. Paper, $6.95
>
>POEMS, by Nick Piombino. Paper $8.95
>
>ARENA, by Dennis Phillips. Paper $10.95
>
>A WORLD, by Dennis Phillips. Paper $9.95
>
>MAXIMS FROM MY MOTHER'S MILK/HYMNS TO HIM, Douglas
>Messerli Paper $8.95
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:59:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Walter K. Lew" <WKL888@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
Dear Maria and Mark,
Juliana Spahr
182 Elm St. Upper
Albany NY 12202
598-9369
jms@acmenet.net
Walter K. Lew
8 Old Colony Rd.
Old Saybrook, CT 06475
ph/fax: 860-388-4601
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 14:12:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Subject: go fast or go slow
It seems to me that there's not any inherent value per se in a poetry
that goes fast or a poetry that goes slow--statements like "I like it
fast" or "I like it slow" may tell us something about the taste of the
authors in question regarding the aesthetics of poetry or whatever else,
but in fact they tell us little more than that. The issue seems to me
rather how a certain "fast" or "slow" dynamic in various social contexts
pertains to those contexts and not simply to the dynamic of the writer
him or her self. Marinetti's interest in speed has to do with his
ideology of the machine; differently, the laconic nature of, say, Robert
Frost, has something to do with his rejection of modernist investments in
the machine, in favor of (equally problematic to me) a staunch
restatement of the condition and value of certain traditional moral
stances in the face of change--neither of these are meant as total
descriptions of their authors.
I'm tempted to make a case for Hannah Weiner's speed, and her
assault on white
space as pertaining to the way her work seems to argue that "blank space
is already written on," that is, far from representing some existential
silence, white space in her work is that place where ideology is in
charge of us; her ability to write against that white space seems almost
like a "talking back to" or "talking through and with" a set of voices
that might otherwise overwhelm her by forcing her to be silent. But that's
just what I'm thinking today.
mark wallace
/----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| |
| mdw@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu "I have not yet begun |
| to go to extremes" |
| GWU: |
| http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~mdw |
| EPC: |
| http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/wallace |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 14:12:32 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Baratier <dave.baratier@MOSBY.COM>
Subject: Pavement Saw brief sale
I am moving this upcoming weekend, so we are selling two of our titles
cheap over a cellanoid medium rather than carry as many of the
physical objects.
Information below. Pick from Chris Stroffolino's _Oops_
or Joshua McKinney's _Permutations of the Gallery_
for only *five dollars*.
Backchannel me with your home address and title you are interested in
by this Thursday, August 15th.
Pay when received.
Be well
dave.baratier@mosby.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pavement Saw Press winner of the 1995-1996 chapbook award:
Permutations of the Gallery
by Joshua McKinney
Poems from this collection first appeared in publications such as the
Columbia Poetry Review, Denver Quarterly, Situation, Santa Barbara
Review, and Willow Springs.
Publication, a prize of five hundred dollars and ten percent of the
book run are awarded to the winner of the annual prize. *Permutations
of the Gallery* was selected by Naton Leslie as the 1996 winner of the
Pavement Saw Poetry Chapbook Award.
About the book:
Permutations of the Gallery is an ambitious collection, even if
recklessly so. Joshua McKinney's poems struggle against the confines
of syntax and literal sense, in order to arrive at a uniquely clear
grasp of the truces we must maintain with time and spacial existence.
To attempt to paraphrase these knotty and paradoxical poems would be
akin to stating that Wallace Stevens wrote about the weather. Don't
search for narrative threads here, poems about Queen Anne's Lace or
cicadas, or paeans for our humdrum, domestic lives. And don't expect
to read this book once.
Naton Leslie
Joshua McKinney knows that philosophy is not an abstract matter, nor
in anyway separate from our everyday lives. His poems show that to
engage the world intimately, we need to _think_ it in the most
particular ways. In *Permutations of the Gallery* family friends,
nature, and a troubling social world are not givens, but rather
questions by which we explore the twisting, disruptive, estatic,
sometimes even annihilating terms of our existence.
Mark Wallace
A poetry held taut, that revels in economy and clarity, is filled with
insights and syntactical compassion. I highly recommend *Permutations
of the Gallery*.
Simon Perchik
Published in a limited edition of 250 copies, perfect bound, 6 by 9
size
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pavement Saw Press
Oops by
Chris Stroffolino
"Oops stoops over everything and bows to nothing but a longing to
believe that somehow, somewhere something will change. Each poem is
involved in a continuous monologue that would be a dialogue if it
wasn't a poem. Wat gies is what is felt and what is dealt with to
feel."
Pam Rehm
Features poems which have appeared in Sulfur, Talisman, Lingo, TO,
Caliban, New American Writing, American Letters & Commentary and
others.
64 pages, perfect bound in attractive purple cover with smiling
picture of the author on the back.
The book is $6.95 including postage and handling.
Checks made out to
Pavement Saw Press / 7 James Street / Scotia, NY 12302
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 14:30:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joseph Lease <lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: go fast or go slow
Comments: To: Mark Wallace <mdw@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9608121415.A12810-0100000@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Mark Wallace wrote:
> It seems to me that there's not any inherent value per se in a poetry
> that goes fast or a poetry that goes slow--statements like "I like it
> fast" or "I like it slow" may tell us something about the taste of the
> authors in question regarding the aesthetics of poetry or whatever else,
> but in fact they tell us little more than that. The issue seems to me
> rather how a certain "fast" or "slow" dynamic in various social contexts
> pertains to those contexts and not simply to the dynamic of the writer
> him or her self. Marinetti's interest in speed has to do with his
> ideology of the machine; differently, the laconic nature of, say, Robert
> Frost, has something to do with his rejection of modernist investments in
> the machine, in favor of (equally problematic to me) a staunch
> restatement of the condition and value of certain traditional moral
> stances in the face of change--neither of these are meant as total
> descriptions of their authors.
> I'm tempted to make a case for Hannah Weiner's speed, and her
> assault on white
> space as pertaining to the way her work seems to argue that "blank space
> is already written on," that is, far from representing some existential
> silence, white space in her work is that place where ideology is in
> charge of us; her ability to write against that white space seems almost
> like a "talking back to" or "talking through and with" a set of voices
> that might otherwise overwhelm her by forcing her to be silent. But that's
> just what I'm thinking today.
>
> mark wallace
>
> /----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
> | |
> | mdw@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu "I have not yet begun |
> | to go to extremes" |
> | GWU: |
> | http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~mdw |
> | EPC: |
> | http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/wallace |
> |____________________________________________________________________________|
>
I really like the point here--the Frost/Weiner contrast works
brilliantly--and the matrix shifts as well when one thinks of, for
example, Blake's anti-industrialism and the different kinds of poetics
that his work suggests--
question--though--
where would Pound's anti-industrialism fit in here--
All Best,
Joseph Lease
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:00:13 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gary Roberts <GROBERTS@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: go fast or go slow
See also S. Kern's study of the Culture of Time and Space, a brilliant
study of modernism in terms of late nineteenth century revolutions in
transportation and communications technology.
See also R. Poggioli's comments on "activist" mode of experimental writing
in the classic Theory of the Avant-Garde.
See also various Ashbery poems like The School of Velocity and The Art of Speed.
That's all I have time and room for now.
Gary Roberts
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 15:13:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: G7 Internet policy
Something of possible interest to the lis -- Pierre
G7 NATIONS PROPOSE RESTRICTIONS ON INTERNET COMMUNICATIONS
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH WARY OF OUTCOME OF TERRORISM CONFERENCE
At a meeting to discuss terrorism on 30 July in Paris, France the
G7 group of nations "endorsed a number of restrictions and
controls on the Internet," reports Human Rights Watch (HRW). HRW
is part of two coalitions deploring "threats by the G7 to
restrict free speech and privacy rights." According to one
coalition, composed mainly of international divisions of the
Electronic Frontier Foundation and HRW, "The G7 (United States of
America, Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Japan)
called for "the prohibition or censorship of sources that may
contain `dangerous' information, restrictions on the electronic
speech of unpopular political organisations, and the imposition
of `key escrow' or other means of allowing governments to violate
privately encrypted correspondence."
The latest action, which HRW and its partners call
"anti-terrorist hysteria," springs from recent events in the US
such as the Olympic bombing and the Trans World Airlines (TWA)
crash. It is "another case in a long list of attempts to restrict
freedom of speech in electronic networks, of which there are
alarming examples in many countries including Australia, Belgium,
China, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, the USA and
Vietnam, under a variety of pretexts ranging from `pornography'
to incorrect political opinion to `terrorism.'"
HRW and the others point out that "`offensive' material being
targeted is no different from similar material available in
libraries and bookshops. As well, information on how to make
bombs, as well as other things that would be `banned,' is widely
available, often from the very governments pushing for
censorship." HRW et al opine that "banning such publications from
the Internet will not make it any less widely available. However,
it could become the tool for the censorship of any debate or
opinion which happens to displease the authorities, or `pressure
groups' that do not share those opinions."
HRW also belongs to the Global Internet Liberty Campaign (GILC),
which has pledged to fight these and other recommendations to
censor the Internet. HRW program director Cynthia Brown said,
"Free speech on the Internet is already under attack from states
like Saudi Arabia, China and Singapore, and with this agreement,
the G7 countries are only reinforcing that negative trend." The
GILC was formed at the annual meeting of the Internet Society in
Montreal. In addition to HRW, members of the coalition include
the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), the Electronic Privacy
Information Center, the Internet Society, Privacy International,
and the Association des Utilisateurs d'Internet.
Further details on the G7 meeting are contained in a GILC press
release available on the Web at:
http://www.aclu.org/gilc/index1.html For a summary of efforts
around the world to censor the Internet see the "10 May 96
Silencing the Net" report on the HRW gopher site at:
gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:5000/11/int/hrw/general For more
background on global censorship of the Internet see the web
sites: http://www.eff.org/~declan/global/ and
http://www.io.org/~sherlock/doom/threat.html For information on
global and international online freedom issues see the Electronic
Frontier Foundation web site: http://www.eff.org/pub/Global/
Some of this information will be available in French by e-mail:
pforsans@in-net.inba.fr, in Catalan at WWW site:
http://www.lander.es/~jlmartin/in Italian at WWW site:
http://www.nexus.it/alcei.html, and in Spanish at WWW site:
http://www.lander.es/~jlmartin/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 12:53:50 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
This is Dodie.
Is it true these rumors I'm hearing that Juliana and ten others have left
the poetics list and started their own poetics list?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:12:52 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Speed
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.91.960811194039.2682A-100000@louie.csun.edu>
This made me think--I bet this is part of the reason students and
sometimes I (and critics maybe who prefer to talk about than dive into)
resist sinking into the words of poetry. gab
On Sun, 11 Aug 1996, Tristan D. Saldana wrote:
>
> Good language is always good at getting us to expand our sense of the
> present, our presence. The media seems to be inhumanely good at
> eliminating the present, and (once again) our presence. A virtue I have
> found in paying attention to language is that it puts me in a comfortable
> relationship to time . . . enables evaluativeness. Not (an)esthetic, but
> an esthetic sedation that helps the 'bash' of the high-threshold lows
> created by the "blunting of the senses" that need hourly gratification as
> Wordsworth says. The world is too much with us, indeed.
>
> I just heard some great lyrics today by a pretty good poet and not half
> bad drummer on this subject . . . how humans, today, live in dog years:
>
> "I'd rather be a tortoise from Galapagos
> or a span of geological time . . ."
>
> Tristan
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:01:22 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Craven?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960812064914.5525A-100000@arc>
On Sun, 11 Aug 1996, Schuchat wrote:
> Also, for some reason I have always thought (don't know from whence this
> information is derived) that Cravan was supposed to be the model for the
> hero of Gide's Caves du Vatican (Lafcadio's Adventures).
>
Hmmm, that's interesting. Anyone else know if that's true? gab.
p.s. Thanks for all the info from everyone. Great stuff.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:53:20 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: FUNKHOUSER CHRISTOPH <cf2785@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: interesting article on the web
i came across an interesting, if problematic, article on the web at
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~heroux/uc4/4-lockard.html
it's called
VIRTUAL WHITENESS AND NARRATIVE DIVERSITY
begins with the eye catching phrase "electronic alterity"
though doesn't develop it very far.
the EPC is mentioned in the article.
*
recently finished "Poetry Webs 1996" at
http://cnsvax.albany.edu/~poetry/webs.html
*
In an article about "Zork" a couple of years ago in the Times Book
Review 2 or 3 years ago, Robert Pinsky said two of the things that poetry
and computers have in common are "memory" and "speed" -- I can't find the
article right now but don't remember him particularly backing the statement
up in any mind blowing way.
chris f
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:07:19 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@SUNMOON.COM>
Subject: Re: New Books from Meow Press
Meow--send you your back channel E-mail address and
I'll order something.
Douglas Messerli at djmess@sunmoon.com
===================
At 10:58 AM 8/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi everybody, before we begin our (pause) "infomerical" (laughter from
>audience) I'd like to take this moment to think back to Orono, you know,
>Orono. I want to thank Orono for Melvin Tolson, whom I've found in the
>Buffalo Public Library. Funny to think that you can't check out a book of
>poetry in buffalo, most poetry existing behind closed stacks. The same is
>true for music library too--and the ERie/County-Buffalo public main branch
>has a great music section, a mix of 20th sentry music (probably lingering
>from the good ol' days at the philharmonic (John Tesh coming this year,
>Doc Severinson's holidy opus+)and an interesting selection of music from
>around the world--both traditional and contemporary. They let you check
>out 10 cds for a week and I'm gettin a real education in music this way.
>Anyway, it is okay to have books stored away for safety, for some
>future researcher, I suppose. Like music, you have to make the
>books you need to read.
>
>On that note, some books are finally available from Meow Press, which is
>3years old this month. More books on the way include: Aaron Shurin, CODEX
>(with in-laid color reproductions), Stephen Ratcliffe, SENTENCE, Noemie
>Maxwell, THRUM, Charles Alexander, FOUR NINETY EIGHT TO SEVEN, Jorge
>Guitart, FILM BLANC, Denise Newman, OF LATER THINGS YET TO COME, Deanna
>Ferguson, ROUGH BUSH, David Carl, THE LIBRARY, and more (I don't have the
>list with me).
>
>Catalogs are available by mail: send queries backchannel to me.
>
>
>
>
>Now Available from Meow Press
>
>
>
>Michael Basinski, Hee-Bee Jeebies
>7x6.5" 24pg.
>$5.00
>
>Natalee Caple, The Price of Acorn
>6.5x4.5" 36pg.
>$6.00
>
>Wendy Kramer, Patinas
>8.5x7" 20pg.
>$5.00
>
>Hank Lazer, The Early Days of the Lang Dynasty
>6.5x6" 36pg.
>$6.00
>
>Jena Osman, Jury
>6.5x4.5" 28pg.
>$5.00
>
>Meredith Quartermain, Terms of Sale
>8.5x7" 48pg.
>$6.00
>
>Lisa Robertson, The Descent
>8.5x7" 24pg.
>$5.00
>
>Lisa Samuels, Letters
>7x6.5" 24pg.
>$5.00
>
>Gary Sullivan, Dead Man
>6.5x5" 32pg.
>$6.00
>
>
>Sullivan & Caple are prose. The whole set of 9 books is available right
>now for $40 for poetics-fans. Call today!
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:23:32 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ann Lauterbach <Annotate@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
To Charles Bernstein---
Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I never
even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so dumb,
forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without talking to
the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:15:52 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
al writes
> To Charles Bernstein---
>
> Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I never
> even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so dumb,
> forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without talking to
> the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
hi ann, we've never met, but it's a pleasure nonetheless.
best wishes, maria damon
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:33:14 +0900
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Eiichi Hishikawa <hishika@KOBE-U.AC.JP>
Subject: Sun & Moon Press Address
> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:10:25 -0700
> From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@SUNMOON.COM>
> Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner bibliography
>
> Thanks for passing on the great Weiner bibliography Charles.
> Members of the Poetics List can now get copies of one of Hannah's
> best works, SPOKE, for $4.00. Order through our website or
> directly through my E-mail address.=20
>
> The website (just a reminder) is http//:www.sunmoon.com. My E-mail
> at Sun & Moon is djmess@sunmoon.com.
>
> Sun & Moon will be making new offers for several new titles and older
> ones this next week.
>
> Douglas Messerli
Thanks very much for your excellent book _From the Other Side of
the Century: A New American Poetry 1960-1990_ (Sun & Moon Press, 1994).
A friend of mine, who recommended this book to me, said his letter
to Sun & Moon Press (at 6026 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles,
California 90036) was sent back to him with the message "unknown address."
He said he used to be able to reach you with this address.
Could you tell me if this address is still valid?
P.S. I'm collecting Internet resources on
20th-century poets writing in English (with biographical data) at
http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm
Your book mentioned above has been a tremendous help for
my page, thanks.
Quid prodest hoc ad aeternitatem
Michael Eiichi Hishikawa hishika@kobe-u.ac.jp
20c poetry -- http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:13:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
>This is Dodie.
>Is it true these rumors I'm hearing that Juliana and ten others have left
>the poetics list and started their own poetics list?
Hi Dodie, it's just a gang of us on a cc list, most are on Poetics as well.
Larry Price's idea. Some call it sub-poetics. I call it the A-list.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:45:09 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Thomas M. Orange" <tmorange@BOSSHOG.ARTS.UWO.CA>
Subject: panel on WCW for Louisville
In-Reply-To: <199608130208.WAA25879@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
listfolks,
i'm interested in putting together a panel for the twentieth-century
literature conference to be held in louisville ky in february 1997.
my work on william carlos williams' early writing (roughly from tempers
through his collected 1921-1931) has got me looking currently at
imagism, objectiv-"ism," pound, zukofsky, periodicals and anthologies
from the teens into the thirties (and all the folks that went into
publishing those as well: kreymbourg, bodenheim, mcalmon), "minor" poets
of the period, etc.
submissions are not due until october, which give us plenty of time to
kick this around. i'd welcome ideas for papers on any related and
sundry topics. feel free to reply directly to the list or backchannel.
tom orange
tmorange@bosshog.arts.uwo.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 01:15:22 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: george hartley <gehartle@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: re poetry & speed
Thanks to all for the clarifications. And to George Bowering (I think): the
indigo Girls are a pop rock-folk duo from Georgia who write and sing
sentimental lyrics and rhythms that haunt me.
George
-----------------------------------
Actually the song stuck relentlessly in mind was by Johnny
Tillotson, in 1960, on the Cadence label.
Two years before "The Loco-Motion" by Little Eva on Dimension.
From Poetry on Cadence to Loco on Dimension---
In the immortal words of Bo Diddley:
When you're in the groove
You really got to move
--dave baptiste chirot
>On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, george hartley wrote:
>
>> Christina Fairbank's
>> >
>> > "Poetry in motion"
>>
>> the Indigo Girls? on this list at last!
>> the speed of cultural transmission (Virginia Woolf, Galileo)
>> the speed of light in the poetry of the stars at night
>>
>Thank you, George, but credit for those poetry & speed posts goes to
>David Baptiste Chirot who is logged into POETICS via my address -
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 01:34:20 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: confidentiality, subpo, california
Dodie!
Of all the juicy rumors I gave you you chose the one specifically about
email to out?
Or maybe I delivered the juicier rumors to Kevin?
Or Rodrigo?
There is a subpoetics.
You can have your own subpoetics.
Feel free to add me in, I love to blab..
I go away for two weeks and the Kiev gets someone else to bake the challah.
Basically we wanted to talk about things on a smaller and a larger scale.
Anybody else stunned to see Hank Lazer's two new books and Bruce Andrews'
new book from who is it, Southwest Illinois Modernism Studies? Way cool.
Gettin to them right after I get to Samuel Delaney, who's had too many
hits on my 'who should I read page' to continue to ignore.
For instance, Dodie, you could talk about what I characterized as New
York's 'Bruce problem'.
That would be a real potato caliente, a jesus prepuce to end all whatevers.
Anybody (everybody?) read RH Blyth's Zen in English Literature?
O so mary burger does this great magazine called 'proliferation' and
there are a bunch of amazing autobio poems by Alice Notley in it.
That's one thing I learned in California.
How to start a subpoetics. Ask some people if they wouldn't mind being in
a subpoetics. Then send an email message ccing all the people who said no
they wouldn't mind. Next year this time I hope to have a server with
L-Soft running. Maybe then we can have a thousand poetics.
That was the idea behind poetics, no? To promote the individual indeces
of the real, in as decent a way as possible? Or was it to have a
listserv? either way cool.
Scared to see what's happened to the kasha varnishkas.
Also I learned photoshop.
Was the speed question an oblique tie in to the olympics? A little
marinetti action? Is kemp going to win?
Ach so many questions.
Oh right! Finally got to the famous 530 Page #2 which was even better
than they said. Missed the cordial Katie Lederer but caught the gracious
Anselm Berrigan--a cool lively presence, a Shakespeare play in himself.
Props to Kevin for his amazing intros and outros at New College. Kevin
Killian, of course. Got Stephen Ratcliffe's 'present tense' and wished I
had money for Carla harryman's city lights book.
Went to the antenym #what? steve? reading at Canessa Park, Steve Carll in
pink tuxedo shirt, shaky handed Eddie Berrigan read, read well, Elizabeth
Robinson read some great baby poems, Chris Daniels read a knockout Pessoa
translation.
The virtuality all connects to something! Yipes! Wow. So does that mean
there are as many imaginings caused by a reading of a work of poetry as
there are readers, the poet is the superintendent or the reader?
Did anybody offer poetics bill Luoma's Lisa Jarnot's Marcella Durand's Kevin
Davies's or my books?
I could make that offer. I could offer Steve Carll's and Ange Mlinko's
books too, but that may take an extra week to sort out.
End of performative east coast occasion.
Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:51:10 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: Juliana Spahr's new e-mail [new satire #3]
above santa monica blvd. just west of westwood on a billboard is a picture
of a beautiful persian man. he is always there dressed well, impeccably to
be precise, so that the perfect white scarf around his neck and draped down
across his breast seems as though it had just snowed and he being an eager
and refined man has just stepped out into the world to participate in this
newfound snow while across the traffic a toyota billboard trumpets the
latest model in three pictures appearing as though on a schedule as the
blinds which hold these images rotate in full circle directly behind the
board listing live the number of dead and this man, his teeth perking from
behind his well shaven face except for his well shaped mustache with its
just dusted grey the hair on his pate in the field of his black black hair
and his black, so incredibly black, tailored suit so that it just soothes
you with this incredible feeling of competancy, this overwhelming desire to
go with him to the ball to join him and the woman he would dine with who
must be one of the true beauties, the actual real queens from the shah's
court and this man has his hand reaching out to you and on his hand, his
wonderfully manicured hand, is perched a gorgeous white, like you've never
ever in your whole life seen white, dove with its eye a glint and behind
this man it says "the A list. . ."
>>Is it true these rumors I'm hearing that Juliana and ten others have left
>>the poetics list and started their own poetics list?
>
>Hi Dodie, it's just a gang of us on a cc list, most are on Poetics as well.
>Larry Price's idea. Some call it sub-poetics. I call it the A-list.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 01:10:41 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: gender discourse
Comments: cc: POETRY@cnsvax.albany.edu
<!-
the following document
is best viewed with
->
<html>
<head>
<title>
gender discourse
</title>
<base href="http://www.chronotope.com/">
</head>
<body
bgcolor="#ffffff"
background="/i/child.gif"
link="#ff0000"
alink="#ff0000"
vlink="#ff0000"
><p>
<center>
<table
width="480"
border="0"
><tr><td
width="480"
colspan="16"
><img
src="/i/dot_clear.gif"
width="480"
height="10"
></td></tr><tr><td
width="15"
colspan="1"
rowspan="16"
><img
src="/i/dot_clear.gif"
width="15"
height="260"
></td><td><a href="/healing/"><font
size="7"
>healing.</font></a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</center>
</p>
</body>
</html>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 07:43:11 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Henry Gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: confidentiality, subpo, california
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 Aug 1996 01:34:20 -0400 from <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
As Jacques La Can O'Raida writes in his _The U-Turn of the Other_:
"In poetics, there is always already already always already a subpoetics."
- Henry La Corn O'Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:54:06 +0000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: cris cheek <cris@SLANG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Craven?
Atlas Press '4 Dada Suicides' has useful discursions around Craven.
Included is Conover's suggestion that, based on considerable evidence, he
didn't die off Mexico but reinvented himself and made a living forging
Wilde manuscripts.
The book presents selections from Craven's writings also. Worth checking.
love and love
cris
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 08:57:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Juliana Spahr's new e-mail
what are the main topics of conversation? (if you're allowed to say)--md
>
> Hi Dodie, it's just a gang of us on a cc list, most are on Poetics as well.
> Larry Price's idea. Some call it sub-poetics. I call it the A-list.
>
> --Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:27:54 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner bibliography
thanks charles; i'm going to try to write something on weiner for the midwest
mla and the regular mla. this, along w/ comments from you and others on the
list, is extremely helpful.
bests, md
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:45:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: speed & poetry (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:39:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
To: poetcis@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: speed & poetry
The world as we see it is passing--Paul of Tarsus
Re speed and poetry--one way to think of it is as speed in
poetry--as Susan Howe writes in an essay on Olson, "seeing in a poem".
Speed in poetry has to do with perception and scale.
For example, Emily Dickinson:
To close the eyes is travel.
I have but to cross the floor to stand in the Spice Islands.
I do not go away, but the Grounds are ample--almost travel--to me.
Emerson writes that "language is vehicular". In "Nature", he
cites the use of mechanical means to attain a "low level of the
sublime"in order to over come "the blank or ruin" that is in the eye.
Through a change in view, the habitual is revealed as "original".
Pound, Wiiliams and Olson urge writing that is efficient,
fast--Pound thought of X-Rays in relation to poetry (at one point his
nickname was X-Ray Pound), Williams the car and Olson the typewriter.
This speed is related to perception--"one perception following another"
faster and faster as Olson says. High speed perception slows things
down (as in a camera)--hence the slowness of reading required by the
notation used by Pound, Olson and Williams, their making long works of
fragments, their use of juxtapositons, "fast cutting" so to speak, among
masses of disparate materials, typographies, spaces. High speed also
makes for the slowing, stopping of perception, so that the movement of a
rock through geological time may be presented.It also makes possible the
focusing on particulars, which, seen close up, slowed, change not in
appearance but in scale.
An example of this is the poetry of Larry Eigner. Eigner writes
often of his concern with "immediacy and force". The speed of perception
opens space, opens a moment in time, "another time in fragments".
Speed in poetry is concerned with immediacy. (hence the
documentary aspect in Pound, WCW, Olson, Eigner, Emily Dickinson, Howe).
Immediacy is not transparency--hence the opacity, the "look" on
the page of these writers. One does not see "through" the words to the
immediate. The immediate is made present by the act of reading, which is
slowed, and focuses, makes one aware of, the attention.
The opposite kind of speed is that of speed reading--which erases
particulars while asserting that it trains one to be able to absrob large
amounts of data. The smooth surface of speed reading removes the
physical immediacy of opaque writing--"smooths out the bumps", "irons out
the rough spots".
A paradox may be that writing concerned with the presentation of
immediacy is eidetic--simply by being an object that is opaque rather
than "transparent".
Which paradox finds its most extreme manifestation in Kerouac,
the fast typer and passenger in Neal Cassady's fast cars. Kerouac wants
to write spontaneous bop prosody, does sketching in front of objects and
scenes--yet is called "memory Babe", is obsessed by memory.
Speed in poetry in relation to perception and opacity may also be
thought of as a resistance. That is, if the opaque poem as object
engages the attention, makes one aware of attention--it directs one to
the question of the art object in relation to perception: to whom does
it "belong". (Both perception and object).
Robert Smithson wrote: A great artist can make art by simply
casting a glance. A set of glances could be as solid as any thing or
place, but the society continues to cheat the artist out of his "art of
looking", by only valuing "art objects".
Speed in poetry directs the attention to an "art of looking",
"seeing in a poem" that opens time, space in relation to scale--and opens
the question of who and what and how are time and space and objects being
turned from perceptions into territories, objects, histories that are
owned, bought and sold.
(an examination of some of these questions may be found in Karl
Young's review of Olson's
Maximus to Gloucester, at the EPC Olson page.)
re the Olympics, speed and poetry--check out Pindar's Olympian Odes!
the view changes/windows/the same silence/cars.a mass
resting/earth/backyard/clumps/a block/everyday/mysteries/a while/a gas
leak/to do nothing/is it death?/no/consider it/newspaper/real
needed/shadows and fireebreaks/bushes button the hills
--larry eigner
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 08:28:26 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@SUNMOON.COM>
Subject: Re: Sun & Moon Press Address
Yes, 6026 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90036
is still our address. Don't know why a letter never
reached us.
Douglas
At 11:33 AM 8/13/96 +0900, you wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 12:10:25 -0700
>> From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@SUNMOON.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner bibliography
>>
>> Thanks for passing on the great Weiner bibliography Charles.
>> Members of the Poetics List can now get copies of one of Hannah's
>> best works, SPOKE, for $4.00. Order through our website or
>> directly through my E-mail address.=20
>>
>> The website (just a reminder) is http//:www.sunmoon.com. My E-mail
>> at Sun & Moon is djmess@sunmoon.com.
>>
>> Sun & Moon will be making new offers for several new titles and older
>> ones this next week.
>>
>> Douglas Messerli
>
>Thanks very much for your excellent book _From the Other Side of
>the Century: A New American Poetry 1960-1990_ (Sun & Moon Press, 1994).
>
>A friend of mine, who recommended this book to me, said his letter
>to Sun & Moon Press (at 6026 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles,
>California 90036) was sent back to him with the message "unknown address."
>He said he used to be able to reach you with this address.
>
>Could you tell me if this address is still valid?
>
>P.S. I'm collecting Internet resources on
>20th-century poets writing in English (with biographical data) at
>http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm
>Your book mentioned above has been a tremendous help for
>my page, thanks.
>
>
>Quid prodest hoc ad aeternitatem
>Michael Eiichi Hishikawa hishika@kobe-u.ac.jp
>20c poetry -- http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:46:57 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:45:22 -0500 from
<tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Maggie Zurowski & Sam Truitt are reading at The Fall Cafe, Smith St,
Brooklyn, Saturday, 17th August at 3:oo p.m. These two cats will read some
great verse -- so if you're in ear shot, make a bee line.
Maggie has been hanging in Berlin on a Fullbright fellowship & has seen
her work in Mirage & the Impercipient. She holds an AB from Brown.
Sam is an MFA holder from Brown and has a great reading style.
Be there, once twice three times.
Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:59:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: the saddest story (book offer)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960813011458.7823A-100000@panix2.panix.com>
And in all that mess
the graciousness
of friends was necessary
sometimes going uncredited--
For instance Dodie Bellamy
lately outing subpoetics
of the 'Bruce problem'
discussions and the 'coigns'
Dodie thank you for setting
up the reading Mary Burger
the mysterious Robert Hale
and I gave at New College
It's a great room, good crowd
A mural painting friend of mine
arrived alerted by your
publicity, I was amazed
Maria for $100 I'll let you
have the subpoetics archives
on a zip drive Mr Filch
I am not java compatible
but you know how email is
so asychronous, a thread
will go along then someone
will come back to town
and answer thirty messages
it's not exactly abc!
Dodie I was amazed and grateful
for instance, the word 'beautiful'
is the topic right now
Lisa Jarnot refers to it
as the 'Special Ed Poetics List'
which I like better than a-list, Rod
it gets how we've totally missed
the point all along
because this is a publication
and that is a backroom
and both have their morning glories
and smoky zones the semi-privacy
affords some well not candor
but reaction Dodie if I pause
it's because my parents
come from different class backgrounds
Steve what do you make now of that
consistently coincidental laughter
and of anybody's failure to say hey
POETICS how are you, to say hello
four hundred people, there's a comfort
level like a middle distance race
not one to one and not Mussolini
at the balcony either tho sometimes
I get the feeling anyway
consciousness at 40 hertz
and A at 440
awake it's noon here and back
to work
SPECIAL OFFER FROM SUBPOETICS/
POETRY CITY
_Sea Lyrics_ by Lisa Jarnot $5
_Western Love_ by Bill Luoma $5
_Lapsis Linguae_ by Marcella Durand $5
_Thunk_ by Kevin Davies $3
_A Little Gold Book_ by Jordan Davis $5
All five of these books for $20 ppd
Send a message with your address to
jdavis@panix.com
and I'll bill you
thanks Steve for being thanks Dodie
Love, Jordan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:24:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: the saddest story (book offer)
Jordan -
Please send me the handy five-pack for $20.
Is the Kevin Davies book a further instance of the Canadian language in the
tradition of Dan Farrell's "Thimking of You"?
& does Noemie Maxwell (not a Canadian)'s "Thrum" fit into these Canadian
conjugations?
Or not.
Herb Levy
P O Box 95744
Seattle, WA 98145
E-mail me an address & I'll send a check even before these books arrive.
Hoo-hah.
Bests
Herb
>SPECIAL OFFER FROM SUBPOETICS/
>
>POETRY CITY
>_Sea Lyrics_ by Lisa Jarnot $5
>_Western Love_ by Bill Luoma $5
>_Lapsis Linguae_ by Marcella Durand $5
>
>_Thunk_ by Kevin Davies $3
>_A Little Gold Book_ by Jordan Davis $5
>All five of these books for $20 ppd
>Send a message with your address to
>
>jdavis@panix.com
>and I'll bill you
>thanks Steve for being thanks Dodie
>Love, Jordan
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:38:58 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joseph Lease <lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: defining or refusing to define
In-Reply-To: <v02130500ae3675a7668c@[192.0.2.1]>
--a couple of days ago I posted a message asking if anyone would be
interested in discussing a range of poets--a certain range but I tried to
word my message so as to leave the range open--ie, let the poets define
certain topics of discussion (sites of poetics)--and go for them--adding
poets whenever to the convesation whenever one wanted to--
--the response--and a very reasonable question--was--well, what makes
these poets a group--
--but of course I didn't say they were a group
--nor did I want them to be a group
--however, of course groups are necessary and real and useful and
generative--and of course people understand that there are differences
within groups as well as differences between groups--
--but a question I would like to read pursued is:--what are the ways that
poets can read poets from different and differently defined groups
together (or, as Whitman might put it, side by side)--
--for example (and I really only mean this as an example)--
--one pairing that seems fruitful to me is Amiri Baraka / Bruce Andrews
All Best,
Joseph Lease
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:53:01 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Oops
While that last missive from me wasn't as embarrassing as some of the
misdirected e-mail that accidentally goes out to the whole list, I didn't
need to bore all you folks with my request to Jordan.
So now I can bore with this too. Sorry.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:43:21 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "." <imburgia@WHIDBEY.COM>
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
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Is this my cousin? I was Lynda Nelson, now Imburgia! Just checking! :)
----------
From: Gale Nelson[SMTP:EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 1996 8:46 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list POETICS
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
Maggie Zurowski & Sam Truitt are reading at The Fall Cafe, Smith St,
Brooklyn, Saturday, 17th August at 3:oo p.m. These two cats will read some
great verse -- so if you're in ear shot, make a bee line.
Maggie has been hanging in Berlin on a Fullbright fellowship & has seen
her work in Mirage & the Impercipient. She holds an AB from Brown.
Sam is an MFA holder from Brown and has a great reading style.
Be there, once twice three times.
Gale
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:39:38 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: defining or refusing to define
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:38:58 -0400 from
<lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
On Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:38:58 -0400 Joseph Lease said:
>--a couple of days ago I posted a message asking if anyone would be
>interested in discussing a range of poets--a certain range but I tried to
>word my message so as to leave the range open--ie, let the poets define
>certain topics of discussion (sites of poetics)--and go for them--adding
>poets whenever to the convesation whenever one wanted to--
>
>--the response--and a very reasonable question--was--well, what makes
>these poets a group--
Was there ANY response? I didn't see any on the list. Thought it was
a good opener...
>
>--but a question I would like to read pursued is:--what are the ways that
>poets can read poets from different and differently defined groups
>together (or, as Whitman might put it, side by side)--
I thought Dave Chirot's post on speed was a good recent example of how
to think along these lines. Trying to open up an overview
of different strains of 20th cent poetry - sense of historical development
and the general purpose behind certain techniques - how to
move toward a kind of simultaneous perspective
on the different traditions, their strengths & weaknesses...
Weakness, for example in the Pound/Wms/Olson quick-cut collage speed
perception poetry Chirot describes, might be that there are problems
with too-easy breakup of syntax & argument - problems of coherence
("it all coheres, all right, though my notes don't"), problems
of dramatic impact, problems of meaning (stevens, for example, faulted
both the over-scholarly "notation" style of Eliot & Pound as well as
the overly-impressionistic style of Williams - but his own version of
pseudo-statement & pseudo-argument (as in Ashbery) has its own
weaknesses.
Who can fault these artists, I'm not saying anything was right
or wrong, but it might help to move toward new style-simultaneity
to keep in mind the kind of awareness on the level of aesthetic effect
that Chirot's post showed. The same approach could be taken using
dramatic narrative speech & stanza effects. And then you see how they bend
these various techniques toward artistic-political-"philosophical"
poem making (i.e. as you say Baraka & Andrews, for one example).
Chirot's paradoxical remarks on how speed of perception - sometimes
mechanically induced - produced "slowness" of aesthetic effect
& relate to immediacy & documentation - were very apropos.
How does this relate to the performance-overdrive poetry of
today (thinking of the Hannah Wieners posts)? - Henry Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:38:05 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: for Chris Funkhouser. . .thanks
http://www.chronotope.com/funkhouser/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:47:27 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Tyuonyi & building clocks
Two things:
Does anyone know if - Tyuonyi is still published and any contact issue with
either the mag or Phillip Foss if it isn't published anymore.
Whether John Taggart's 'How to Construct a Clock' is still in print?
Contact info?
cf
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 07:25:20 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Janet S. Gray" <JSGRAY@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Aug 1996 00:02:14 -0400 from
<LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
For a friend who is looking for 'accessible' poems to spice up
a mostly prose syllabus on growing up marginalized:
any suggestions of poems about growing up gay/lesbian,
growing up chicano/a, jewish, puertoriqueno/a, black,
native american, asian american, disabled, .... ?
Janet
jsgray@pucc.princeton.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:38:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gary Roberts <GROBERTS@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: defining or refusing to define
Shouldn't this discussion of speed and slowness (an interesting asymmetry
there) be also keyed to the paces of the other body zones, not just the
the mind and the sense organs? Most obviously, the paces of other activities
such as walking, breathing, sex.
Gary Roberts
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:32:47 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:43:21 -0700 from
<imburgia@WHIDBEY.COM>
Not likely a cousin, Lynda (unless rather distant), but possibly a college
colleague? Did you play volleyball for the Claremont Mudd Scripps team in
the early 80s?
From a relative-deprived Nelson (both my parents were only children),
Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:59:34 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: defining or refusing to define
Joseph,
Okay, why pair baraka and andrews?
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:17:47 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: defining or refusing to define
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:59:34 EST from
<kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
A very clever inversion of initials?
Amiri Baraka
Bruce Andrews
Political layer with language orientation or
language orientation with political layer?
The movement from one well-defined approach
to another (a "maturing" of aesthetic) over
the course of each poet's career?
A few bites on Joseph's line...
Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:38:11 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julie Marie Schmid <jschmid@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96081407295085@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Janet--
Sandra Maria Esteves's poem "My Name is Maria Cristina" comes to mind
right away. I believe it's in her book *Blues Town Mockingbird Mambo*.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:02:15 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
-the famous poem by countee cullen abt being called "nigger" in --baltimore?
can't remember what' its' called.
-anything by gary soto; living up the street teaches extremely well
-house on mango st, cisneros
md
In message <POETICS%96081407295085@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> For a friend who is looking for 'accessible' poems to spice up
> a mostly prose syllabus on growing up marginalized:
> any suggestions of poems about growing up gay/lesbian,
> growing up chicano/a, jewish, puertoriqueno/a, black,
> native american, asian american, disabled, .... ?
>
> Janet
> jsgray@pucc.princeton.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:36:24 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: mackey e-address
does anyone out there have an e-address for nate mackey? i seem to have deleted
said info from my old aol account. thanks groovoids. md
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 06:18:57 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: rob wilson <rwilson@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96081407295085@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Zack (R. Zamora) Linmark's "They Like You Because You Eat Dog" is all of
the below, and more, crazed cyborgian linkages of becoming muliple selves
from Manila to Honolulu to SF gay scene, plus the language is equal too
indeed exceeds all such fixities of what "growing up" or down or out
might me in US polity of Nick at Night acculturations. See "Rolling the
R's" (Kaya Press Productions, out this year) and/or work in Haggedorn's
anthology "Charley Chan Is Dead" etc and Walter Lew on the whole schmeer
of space and selfhoods (Premonitions); Zack has even wilder work on
cross-gender reinventions and recursive Catholicism (not as dessicated or
displaced as Jack Spicer machinics) in Hawaii Review 44 (Fall, 1995),
edited Sean Mac Beth, which has some demonic poems by Morgan Blair (ex
Faye Kicknosway socalled) for goodly measure of excess too. Hope this
helps a bit re below. Rob Wilson
On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Janet S. Gray wrote:
> For a friend who is looking for 'accessible' poems to spice up
> a mostly prose syllabus on growing up marginalized:
> any suggestions of poems about growing up gay/lesbian,
> growing up chicano/a, jewish, puertoriqueno/a, black,
> native american, asian american, disabled, .... ?
>
> Janet
> jsgray@pucc.princeton.edu
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:09:56 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:02:15 -0500 from
<damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Just like a Real Italian Kid, Michael Gizzi (The Figures)
This book, like Michael's work in general, pops with just about every kind
of energy you could imagine. Childhood memories galore.
Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:20:27 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: CSPAN-2 to Air "Freedom to Write" Program
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:53:20 -0500 from <chax@MTN.ORG>
C-SPAN-2 will air an edited version of the Freedom to Write Conference, held
at Brown this past spring. The air date is Saturday, 31 August at 8:00 p.m.,
via their "About Books" program.
The Freedeom to Write Conference, sponsored by Brown University's Freedom
to Write Program (housed in Creative Writing), fetaured an international
symposium, including a teleconference conversation with Salman Rushdie,
moderated by Freedom to Write Program founder, Robert Coover, with "present"
panelists including Joanne Leedom-Ackerman, Carlos Fuentes, Gara LaMarche,
Liao Hui-ying, and Liam Rector.
Speakers and presenters at other portions of the five-day conference were:
Mark Amerika (USA), Bei Ling (China), Vladimir Ceballos (Cuba), Chen Jo-hsi
(China), Augustin Garcia (Cuba), Hwang Liang (Taiwan), William Keach (USA),
Li Lu (China), Liao Hui-ying (Taiwan), Jonathan Lubin (USA), Ma Jian (Hong
Kong), Mang Ke (China), Carole Maso (USA), Mei Xin (Taiwan), Meng Lang (China),
Gale Nelson (USA), Aishah Rahman (USA), Luis Rivera (Cuba), Doug Unger (USA),
Keith Waldrop (USA), C.D. Wright (USA), Xiang Ming (Taiwan), Xue Di (China),
Yang Ge-ling (China), Yang Xiaobin (China), Ying Ping-shu (Taiwan).
If you have cable, you may find the edited version of this conference to be
an interesting document.
Gale Nelson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 11:21:55 CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Joel Felix <U63132@UICVM>
Comments: Originally-From: u63132@uic.edu (Joel Felix)
From: Joel Felix <U63132@UICVM.BITNET>
Subject: Rube Steps In <<LEAVE BOOKS>>
Anybody
Not to confuse the ether-ial with the real, but I was in Buffalo
last weekend and was struck by the number of ass-kicking chapbooks
from "Leave Press," which published several of the people on this
list. Does anyone know who publishes "Leave" Books?
Shouts out to JKuzai for hot chaps tambien.
A general question placed to the field: Is the future of
poetry in the U.S. the 500 copy laserprinted chapbook? Is this
the nascent node of the cultural production formerly known as "Poetics?"
I do not come bearing critique, here, just typing aloud, as it were.
and thanks to those of us (ooh, bad english--, well,
how else would a collective mind talk to itself?) who caught hold
of the Ronald Johnson broadside firestorm. (nudge)
Felix
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:31:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: [Fwd: David Tudor (fwd)]
Received: from virginia.edu (mars.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by sarah.albany.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04679 for <joris@cnsunix.albany.edu>; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:15:40 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from Virginia.EDU by mail.virginia.edu id aa04040; 14 Aug 96 15:12 EDT
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14 Aug 96 15:11 EDT
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From: "Fred E. Maus" <fem2x@faraday.clas.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199608141911.PAA253390@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: David Tudor (fwd)
To: collab-mus@virginia.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:11:37 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Date: 14 Aug 96 12:58:32 EDT
> From: Volker Straebel <102170.3140@compuserve.com>
> To: s / silence <silence@bga.com>
> Subject: David Tudor
>
> Sad news, according to Mimi Johnson, Artservices:
>
> David Tudor died on Tuesday, August 13, at his home in Tomkins Cove, New York,
> after a series of strokes. He was 70 years old.
>
> Volker Straebel
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:23:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: disgruntled postal workers
>And re disgruntled postal workers and lit--as of y'day's log, no one had yet
>mentioned Charles Bukowski's novel _Post Office_.
Oh, I thought we were talking about serious writing.
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:08:16 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglis Beck <DlisRicBck@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1996 to 11 Aug 1996
debra sez: "Craven's probably surfin the waves." not sure what that means,
but there it is. go figure.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:32:49 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Loss Glazier <lolpoet@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rube Steps In <<LEAVE BOOKS>>
Joel, You can find info about these presses at the Electronic Poetry Center
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc
then select "Presses"
---
At 11:21 AM 8/14/96 CDT, you wrote:
> Anybody
>
>Not to confuse the ether-ial with the real, but I was in Buffalo
>last weekend and was struck by the number of ass-kicking chapbooks
>from "Leave Press," which published several of the people on this
>list. Does anyone know who publishes "Leave" Books?
>
> Shouts out to JKuzai for hot chaps tambien.
>
> A general question placed to the field: Is the future of
>poetry in the U.S. the 500 copy laserprinted chapbook? Is this
>the nascent node of the cultural production formerly known as "Poetics?"
>I do not come bearing critique, here, just typing aloud, as it were.
>
> and thanks to those of us (ooh, bad english--, well,
>how else would a collective mind talk to itself?) who caught hold
>of the Ronald Johnson broadside firestorm. (nudge)
>
>Felix
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:20:01 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: info on azi (fwd)
I got information before I forwarded this because it seemed so extreme and
horrendous. gab.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:19:29 -1000
From: NCADP1@aol.com
To: welford@hawaii.edu
Subject: info on azi
Gabrielle,
We received your request. Please excuse the dealay in getting back to you.
We've been running day and night on this case.
Enclosed please find A)an article that recently ran in the Jackson Advocate
B) an excerpt from the pre-trial hearing and C) an articel that ran in the
Clarion-Ledger last April.
I hope these will give you a satisfactory range of perspectives and
information.
If I can be of further service, please don't hesitate to call on me.
In Solidarity,
Ben Jealous
NCADP Program Coordinator
___________________________________________________________________
South African Child Facing Legal Lynching, Civil Rights Activists Protest
"Under Apartheid, under the state of emergency, Black children were tried as
adults," observed Elaine Salo, a South African doctoral candidate studying in
Atlanta. "This case is very reminiscent of that situation. He may not be
accused of a political crime, but they are not taking his age into
consideration. This is really a child we are talking about."
After surviving some of Apartheid's most turbulent years, Azikiwe Kambule a
10th grade South African child is facing the death penalty in Mississippi
for a crime in which many say he was little more than a bystander.
Despite having no criminal record, no history of violence, providing his
full cooperation to the authorities, and not being present when the killing
took place Azi has been charged as an accomplice to capital murder.
Mississippi is seeking the death penalty against Azi-- a child who isn't
even old enough to buy a beer, let alone sit on a jury.
Two local prosecutors, Hinds County District Attorney Ed Peters and Madison
County D.A. James Kitchens, have already acted to seal Azi's fate.
In April, Peters was quoted in the Clarion-Ledger, a local daily newspaper,
as saying that because the "jurors in [predominantly black] Hinds County have
a reputation for refusing to vote for the death penalty," he and Kitchens
moved Azi's trial to Madison County where the outcome would be more certain,
if not predictable.
The setting for John Grisham's A Time To Kill, Madison's racial environment
is notorious. "That jury's gonna lynch 'em," says Charles Tisdale, publisher
of The Jackson Advocate. "It's just that simple."
With one of the largest white populations in Mississippi, Madison has become
a virtual haven for the state's less tolerant elites.
"That county is home to this country's richest and poorest people," says
Tisdale. "The white folks ran there to avoid desegregation, and the black
folks who've stayed have never received the benefit of their own civil
rights."
Like his fictitious counterpart in Grisham's's novel, county officials say,
the current Madison County D.A. is hoping this high profile death penalty
case will advance his career.
"Word is he's planning on running for Judge soon," said a county attorney
who asked his name not be printed.
Azi's friends and supporters say they are concerned that the part-time
public defender who's defending him won't be up to the challenge.
"Those attorneys are contracted-- they aren't paid anything extra to handle
capital trials," says Sheila O'Flaherty who was with the Mississippi Capital
Defense Resource Center until congressional Republicans eliminated its
funding earlier this year. The office had been charged with making sure that
cases like Azi's didn't fall through the cracks.
According to Steve Hawkins, executive director of the National Coalition to
Abolish the Death Penalty, court-appointed attorneys in southern states often
receive the equivalent of 4 or 5 dollars per hour to handle death penalty
trials.
"Look at the facts," says Reverend Robert Abrams, a United Methodist pastor
from Gulfport, Mississippi, "and you will see this boy is more of a victim
than anything else."
Azikiwe Kambule came to the United States two years ago with his mother
who had received a fellowship to finish her college education in America.
"He was very excited," remembers his mother, Busisiwe Chabeli. "He had
always heard us talk about America and he wanted the chance to see for
himself."
As a student at Chastain Middle School in Jackson, Azi had no trouble
adjusting academically; he received excellent grades, was placed in honors
classes and joined the school choir. Yet, Azi found himself under immense
social pressure -- he didn't look, speak or dress like other children in his
neighborhood.
Azi wanted to "fit in" with his peers, and not be the subject of their
ridicule. He met and started spending time with youth who were older and
very street-wise.
While attending Jackson's Murrah High School, Azi's grades began to fall;
his parents worried that his new friends were the wrong crowd. Fearing the
worst, they decided to scrape together the funds to send Azi to a boarding
school. Tragically, it was already too late.
Last January, a week before he was to leave for the Piney Woods School, Azi
found himself in the middle of a car-jacking in which a young African
American woman was kidnapped and ultimately killed.
According to police testimony during a pre-trial hearing, Azi himself was so
far away from the crime scene that he did not hear the gunshots. When
arrested, he was the only one to cooperate with the police. He fully
explained the terrible series of events that ended with the death of Pamela
McGill-- a young African American woman who was popular in the local
community. After his arrest, Azi tried repeatedly to help the authorities in
their investigation.
Civil rights activists say they fear that outrage about McGill's murder has
inhibited many people's ability to see the injustice being perpetrated by
local prosecutors.
"While the tragedy of Ms. McGill's death is an emotional fire burning out of
control in our community, we must look at the larger political dynamic of the
prosecutors' decision to move this trial to Madison County to ensure these
two young people get the death penalty," commented L.C. Dorsey, assistant
professor of social work at Jackson State University and former executive
director of the Mississippi Prison Defense Committee.
"It seems that their guilt has been decided even before the trial has
begun."
Scheduled to commence August 19, Azi's case is already beginning to attract
national and international attention.
"The situation in which Azi finds himself speaks volumes about the use of
the death penalty against children," Hawkins says.
"During this decade, only five nations in the world are known to have
executed persons for crimes they committed before their eighteenth birthday.
Those countries are Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia . . . and the
United States. And America has executed more than the other four combined."
According to the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty, a
condemned child in the United States also tends to be of darker hue -- 66% of
those persons sentenced to death as children have been from racial
minorities.
"Nowhere is the international rule of law more clear than the prohibition on
the use of the death penalty against children. The International Covenant on
Civil and Political Rights, which the United States has ratified, clearly
states that the 'sentence of death shall not be imposed for crimes committed
by persons below the age of eighteen'," Hawkins explains. "Indeed, every
major human rights treaty in the world has the same express wording."
Rev. Abrams says he is concerned that Americans have become so fearful and
angry about violence in their communities that they're no longer
contemplating the consequences of their responses to crime.
"There is a feeding frenzy going on in America right now" he says. "And we
are feeding on our youth."
--_____________________________________________________________________
[NOTE: This is only an excerpt from the complete transcript. The
information cited below can be found on pages 1 and 3-14 of the official
transcript, which is available from the Madison County Circuit Court Clerk's
Office]
IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT
OF HINDS COUNTY, MISSISSIPPI
STATE OF MISSISSIPPI PLAINTIFF
VERSUS NOS. 96-228 & 96-229
RUDY RHODES AND
SANTONIO BERRY DEFENDANTS
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PROCEEDINGS HAD AND DONE IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING OF THE
ABOVE-STYLED AND NUMBERED CAUSES BEFORE THE HONORABLE WILLIAM R. BARNETT,
HINDS COUNTY JUDGE, ON THE 22ND DAY OF FEBRUARY, 1996.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LEMON:
Q. Would you state your name, please.
A. James French.
Q. Where are you employed?
A. City of Jackson Police Department, Violent Crimes Task Force.
Q. How long have you been employed there?
A. I've been employed with the police department a little over 18 years.
Q. Have you had reason to investigate a crime involving a Rudy Rhodes and
Santonio Berry?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
Q. Did you also investigate a crime involving an Azikiwe Kambule?
A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. And they are all related in the same crime?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you understand that because Mr. Kambule's attorney is not able to be
here today because of a conflict we're only going to proceed on Mr. Rhodes
and Mr. Berry?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. What crime had you investigated the defendant Rhodes and defendant
Berry for?
A. The initial crime was simply a missing person. They were--they have been
arrested and charged. Mr Berry has been charged with armed robbery and
kidnapping, Mr. Rhodes has been charged with accessory to armed robbery and
accessory to kidnapping.
Q. And where did this crime take place or begin?
A. 1523 County Line Road, Somerset Apartments.
Q. Is that in the First Judicial District of Hinds County?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Could you please tell the Court the involvement in the crimes as to Rudy
Rhodes and Santonio Berry; and when necessary please speak to defendant
Azikiwe Kambule, also.
A. Yes, sir. Initially Pamela McGill was reported missing on the 25th of
September [sic]. We obtained a bank photo from the Trustmark Bank at County
Line Road, an ATM machine, showing Ms. McGill--the last know time that we
know that she was alive at 5:55 P.M. on that date. As she drives through
the--away from the ATM a white Mitsubishi driven by Mr. Berry, a clear facial
shot of him, pulls through the ATM. From that point on Ms. McGill has never
been seen. She had a meeting set up for 6:20--6:15 that day. The person that
was supposed to meet her did not arrive at her apartment until 6:20. Ms
McGill was not there at that time. She's never been seen from again. The--Ms.
McGill at the time she went through the bank was driving her 1993 red Dodge
Stealth. She withdrew $50.00 in cash from the bank, and there was a debit
against her account for $51.00, the extra one dollar against the account. We
began looking for the vehicle. We received information that an individual
from Laurel and two from Jackson were trying to sell the vehicle in Laurel on
a street called Lucas Street. We contacted Laurel P.D. Laurel P.D. began
looking for the vehicle. They found the vehicle parked on a parking lot at
Howard Industries in Laurel. This was on the 5th of February around 5:00 P.M.
The vehicle was processed for evidence by the Mississippi State Crime Lab.
Items missing from the vehicle were the car radio, a set of floor mats, and a
cellular telephone--Dodge Stealth floor mats. Also found in the car was a
spent hull from a Makarov pistol, a 9 by 18 Makarov style--Makarov style
pistol. They recovered other pieces of evidence. February the 6th a Mr.
Preston Ramsey contacted us and advised that he had received information that
Rudy Rhodes and two individuals from Jackson had taken the red Dodge Stealth
to an Oscar George in Laurel. Detective Windham with the Laurel P.D. was
contacted and asked to locate Oscar George. In the meantime, members of the
task force went to Laurel. On the 6th special agent--FBI agent Artis and
detective--and myself interviewed Oscar George. Oscar George stated that Rudy
Rhodes and two individuals that he thought to be from Jackson had tried to
sell him this red Dodge Stealth for a thousand dollars. On the 6th members of
the Violent Crimes Task Force and the Fugitive Task Force arrested Rudy
Rhodes. At 8:30 P.M. Rudy Rhodes signed a rights waiver form. This was
witnessed by FBI agent Hal Neilson, Mississippi Highway Patrol investigator
Tommy Squires, and myself. Rudy Rhodes then gave a written statement as to
this incident.
Q. Without getting into the--exactly what was said in the statement, could
you please tell the Court the effect of that statement?
A. The statement indicates that Azikiwe Kambule and Berry showed up at
Rhodes' apartment. They were driving a red Dodge Stealth. Rhodes indicated
that as soon as he saw it he knew that it was probably a stolen vehicle. They
wanted to go to Laurel. He had already planned to go to Laurel, so he allowed
them to follow. Rhodes and his girlfriend, Pammy Porter, rode in Rhodes' red
Dodge--in a red Plymouth Laser; and the red Dodge Stealth driven by Berry and
a passenger, Kambule, followed. Pammy Porter spent the night at her mother's
house. Berry, Kambule, and Rhodes spent the night, the night that Ms. McGill
first--missed her first appointment. The next day, Friday, Rhodes stated that
he took Kambule and Berry to Oscar George's business which is a repair shop,
auto repair shop; and they did in fact try to sell the car for a thousand
dollars. Santonio Berry removed the radio from the vehicle and placed it in
the trunk of the red Plymouth Laser that's jointly owned by Rudy Rhodes and a
Stacy Roy. While in Laurel, Santonio Berry and Azikiwe Kambule told Rhodes
that they had followed a woman driving from a bank to some apartment. They
made the woman move over and drove toward Raymond. They turned off the
highway toward Raymond on a long, dark road, made the woman get out, and
drove off. They did not tell Rhodes, according to his statement, that they
had murdered her. Super Bowl Sunday, which I believe is the 28th--they came
back to Jackson on Saturday. Pammy Porter drove the Plymouth Laser, and the
three individuals were in the car with her. And Super Bowl Sunday Berry went
back to Rhodes and said he wanted to go back to Laurel. Rhodes and Berry went
back to Laurel and moved the vehicle from an individual's house to the
parking lot at Howard Industries where they left it. And that's basically
Rhodes' statement.
Q. Okay. Did any of the others make any statements?
A. Yes, sir. Azikiwe Kambule when he was arrested by special agent Neilson,
investigator Squires, and myself made a statement that he and--to the effect
that he and Berry had in fact observed Pam McGill on the parking lot of the
Trustmark Bank at the corner of County Line and Wheatley. They were standing
outside of Berry's car about to use an ATM card themselves. Ms McGill drove
around them, pulled in the machine. Berry made a statement that he wanted
that car. They got back into Berry's car, followed her to the apartments.
Kambule said that it appeared to him that Ms. McGill was getting out of her
vehicle as if to check the mail, and at which point--
Q. This is back at her apartment?
A. At Somerset Apartments. Kambule stated that Berry used his Makarov pistol
to force Ms. Berry [sic] back into the car. He forced here through the
driver's seat into the passenger's seat of this vehicle. Berry got in behind
the driver's seat with the weapon on Ms. McGill. Kambule indicated that he
got into the passengers door and almost had to lie down to get behind the
from seat--behind the seat on the passenger's side. Berry drove. Kambule
again was right behind the seat. Ms. McGill was in the right, front seat.
They left Berry's Mitsubishi at Somerset Apartments. As they drove, Pam
McGill kept begging for them to just take the car and take her money and let
her go. According to Kambule, they went to a road down toward Raymond. Berry
stopped the car, made the woman get out, and he told Kambule to turn the car
around. Kambule stayed in the car. Berry walked the woman into the woods.
Kambule tried to turn the car around. He cannot drive a straight shift and
could not get it turned around. Berry returned shortly; and Berry
stated--according the Kambule, Berry said that he had shot--he had made the
girl kneel down and shot her in the back of the head. They then went,
according to Kambule, went to Rhodes' apartment. There they left the Dodge
and had Rudy Rhodes take them back to where they had left the white
Mitsubishi. Berry drove the Mitsubishi to his apartment on Poplar Avenue.
They then returned to Rudy Rhodes' home and then went to Laurel. Kambule
tried to point out the road that--where the--where Ms. McGill had been
placed, but he was not successful.
Q. Has anyone else attempted to assist the police or the authorities in
finding Ms. McGill's body?
A. In--no, they all--
Q. Concerning the defendants.
A. We got statements from Cedric Bernard Jones and from a Brian Cooley. They
were with all three defendants on the Saturday night--excuse me--on the
Friday night following the abduction; and Santonio Berry showed Brian Cooley
the firearm. All three defendants showed these two witnesses the vehicle. At
that time it was--when they saw it, it was parked on the parking lot at Jones
County Junior College. They talked about the incident; and according to
Cooley and Jones, they indicated that they had forced the woman into the car,
taken her to a long, dark road and made her get out. Jones and Cooley
indicated they thought the woman was still alive when she was put out of the
vehicle. Pammy Porter was interviewed by agents Neilson and Detective Rainey,
and she indicated that she had in fact gone to Laurel, that when she
first--on the night of the incident when she returned home, she walked into
her apartment and heard Santonio Berry saying something to the effect "two
shots, pow, pow." She went on into the apartment. They wanted to go to
Laurel. They followed Porter and Rhodes to Laurel, that during the weekend
she did in fact overhear them saying that they had taken the car--taken the
woman, taken the car and put her out on a long, dark road. On the way back
from Laurel that Saturday, Pammy Porter was driving the vehicle with the
other three individuals in it. She was stopped in Mendenhall-on Highway 49 at
Mendenhall and issued a ticket for driving with no tag.
Q. How did the two defendants that abducted Ms. McGill receive their vehicle
back that they had parked at her apartment complex?
A. According to Kambule, Rhodes--they went--after they put Ms. McGill out,
they went to Rhodes' apartment. They got into Rhodes' car. Rhodes took them
to Somerset Apartments. Berry got into the Mitsubishi, drove the Mitsubishi
to Poplar Street where he had an apartment, and this is prior to going to
Laurel.
Q. I'm sorry. Where were the items that were taken from Ms. McGill's car
found?
A. The radio that was taken from Ms. McGill's car was found in the trunk of
Rudy Rhodes' car. He identified it as being the radio that came out of the
car. The cellular telephone was recovered by Laurel Police Department. An
individual turned it in, and an individual there whose name escapes me now
identified it as being the phone that came out of that car. The floor mats
from the vehicle were found in a mini storage building in Clinton during the
serving of a search warrant. So that' the only three items we've recovered
from the car. The Makarov pistol we believe to have been used in the incident
was found in the possession of Mr. Berry at the time he was arrested by
Clinton Police Department...
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. FORTNER:
Q. Jim, I've just got a few questions. How long after Kambule was arrested
did you arrest Mr. Berry?
A. Mr. Berry was arrested somewhere in the neighborhood of 5:15, 5:30 in the
morning.
Q. Did Mr. Berry make any statements to the police?
A. No, sir.
Q. None at all?
A. To my knowledge, no, sir.
Q. Are you the only person that attempted to ask him any questions, or did
you attempt to ask him any questions?
A. I was not present during the time he was arrested. I did see him
following his arrest. They brought him up to our office for processing into
the jail. He was advised of his rights, but he didn't want to talk. So to my
knowledge he's not made any statements whatsoever.
Q. Did Mr. Kambule--is Mr. Kambule the only witness you've spoken to or the
only person you or anybody else has spoken to that says Mr. Berry told him
that he killed the woman?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All of the other people that you've talked to, the people down in Laurel,
the names that you listed, all of those people only say that Kambule and
Berry said that they took her out on a road and put her out. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Do we even know for certain what road we're talking about here?
A. No.
Q. So do we even know for certain that if this woman was killed it occurred
here in Hinds County?
A. We know that the crime began in Hinds County.
Q. But we don't know where it ended. Is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. Right now my client is not charged with murder. Is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. And is it your intention to try to present a murder charge against him to
the grand jury?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did Mr. Kambule--what time was it when they went through the ATM?
A. 5:55.
Q. And what time was it when they got to Mr. Rhodes' apartment?
A. There's some discrepancy on that.
Q. What does Rhodes say?
A. I think Rhodes and--I believe Rhodes said around 8:00 or 9:00 P.M.
Q. What about Kambule?
A. He didn't say.
Q. And Kambule testified--or in his statement he told you that--he told you
that he did see my client with a gun. Is that right?
A. Kambule? Yes, sir.
Q. How long--you said that Kambule said that Mr. Berry left the car with Ms.
McGill; and he tried to turn the car around, couldn't do so, and Berry
returned shortly.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is shortly?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was he any more specific than that?
A. No.
Q. Did Mr. Kambule tell you that while Mr. Berry and Ms. McGill were outside
of the vehicle that he heard a gunshot?
A. He specifically said he did not hear a gunshot.
BY MR. FORTNER: That's all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
MADISON COUNTY WILL TRY SUSPECTS IN MCGILL SLAYING
[Note: This is a copy of an article that ran in Jackson, Mississippi's
Clarion-Ledger Neewspaper on April 5, 1995]
Pamela McGill's suspected killers will be tried in Madison County, officials
said Thursday.
Investigators said they don't plan to directly file charges related to
McGill's slaying against Santonio Berry, 21, and Azikiwe Kambule, 17, but
will present the case to the grand jury as a capital murder punishable by the
death penalty.
"I requested the Madison County District Attorney take the case and he's
agreed to do that," said Hinds County District Attorney, Ed Peters.
"The family, from the beginning, has expressed a desire that the people
charged get the death penalty and the best way is to send it to another
county," Peters said.
McGill, 31, disappeared Jan. 25. Police say the incident began in Hinds
County, where she was kidnapped, and ended in Madison County, where she was
slain.
"Both counties would have jurisdiction," Peters said.
Police say Berry wanted her sports car and he and Kambule kidnapped her from
her Jackson apartment. Kambule told police Berry drove the car to a deserted
road outside Jackson and shot McGill in the head after making her walk into
the woods and kneel.
Berry, Kambule and Rudy Rhodes, 19, were arrested Feb. 7. Berry and Kambule
were charged with armed robbery and kidnapping, Rhodes was charged as an
accessory.
Rhodes is accused of arranging to sell McGill's red 1993 Dodge Stealth in
Laurel; investigators say Pammy Porter, 19, Rhodes' fiancee, also knew of the
crime. Porter also is charged as an accessory.
Madison County Coroner Alex Breeland said an autopsy confirmed McGill was
shot in the back of the head. The body was released to her family Thursday.
McGill's body was found Thursday in a wooded area near North County Line
Road just inside Madison County after Berry pinpointed the general location
for investigators.
Two previous searches, based on Kambule's vague description of the site,
failed.
Hinds County Sheriff Malcolm McMillin said he had no preference which county
will try the case.
"My position is there's good judges and good juries in Hinds and Madison
counties," he said.
Peters sees things differently.
"The jurors in Hinds County have a reputation for refusing to vote for the
death penalty," he said. "Certain judges in Hinds County have gotten so
prejudiced against the prosecution that they won't even allow confessions to
be entered as evidence."
_____-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
END OF TRANSMISSION
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:55:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "." <imburgia@WHIDBEY.COM>
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8A2C.B1BD7C00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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No! I was'nt an athelete! But I did dabble in poetry some! I do have a =
cousin named Gale Nelson tho! I can see now you are not her! I'm sorry =
you don't have more relatives......but you can adopt them! I did! I have =
a large family.....but adopted a Grandmother, a Brother, and a cousin! =
They are wonderful! Thanks for answering! ............Lynda.
----------
From: Gale Nelson[SMTP:EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 1996 6:32 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list POETICS
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
Not likely a cousin, Lynda (unless rather distant), but possibly a =
college
colleague? Did you play volleyball for the Claremont Mudd Scripps team =
in
the early 80s?
>From a relative-deprived Nelson (both my parents were only children),
Gale
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:17:52 -1000
Reply-To: Gabrielle Welford <welford@hawaii.edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: <3211ea772589643@mhub0.tc.umn.edu>
Hey, Lois Ann Yamanaka's _Saturday Night at Pahala Theater_ and Zack
Linmark's _Rolling the R's_. Some of Mary TallMountain's poetry and
stories, if you want more stories--a wonderful one called "Green March
Moons" and others. gab
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:29:43 +0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: WW II in Japanese Film (fwd)
The following, which I cross post from another list, may be of interest to
some of us.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: WW II in Japanese Film
Hello all,
For those of you in or passing through the San Francisco - Bay Area:
A Chinese acquaintance has informed me of the following films being shown
at the Pacific Film Archive in Berkeley: "WW II in Japanese Film"
August 16 -- Seisaku's Wife 7:00
-- Clouds at Sunset 9:15
August 17 -- Hoodlum Soldiers Return 7:30
-- Dear His Majesty 9:20
August 30 -- Senso Daughters and Karayuki-San:
The Making of a Prostitute 7:30
August 31 -- Extremely Personal Eros: Love Song 7:00
-- The Emperor's Naked Army Marches On 8:55
For more info see http://www.uampfa.berkeley.edu/pfa/
Pacific Film Archive
2621 Durant Avenue
Berkeley, California 94720-2250
510/642-1412 (office)
510/642-5249 (tickets)
____________________________________________________________________________
Thomas Pixley email: hf.thp@forsythe.stanford.edu
Program Officer
Asia/Pacific Research Center
200 Encina Hall
Stanford University phone: 415-723-8387
Stanford, CA 94305-6055 fax: 415-723-6530
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:12:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Brian Carpenter <bricarp@PAUL.SPU.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96081407295085@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Hello POETICS --
(there, i did it)
Also might suggest _American Dreams_ by Sapphire, publ. by Vintage Books.
A wide range of voices from urban america, growing up, and a considerable
sampling of groups in our Tossed Salad. Others on the list might know
more specifics on the book, as I've (eek) only read a handful of pages so
far.
= Brian Carpenter
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:22:34 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Janet S. Gray" <JSGRAY@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject: Growing up marginalized poems
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:03:22 -0400 from
<LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
thanks for the help, all!
Janet
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:55:29 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julie Marie Schmid <jschmid@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: <3211ea772589643@mhub0.tc.umn.edu>
Hey Maria et al,
I believe the Cullen poem is called "Incident." Somone (I can't remember
the artist's name) covered it on an album recently. I brought that in to
play for my class the day we discussed the poem, and it was a great way
to get the students into it. It may have been Ani DiFranco--does anyone
know if that's right? Also in the first Nuyorican anthology (the one
edited by Algarin and Pinero) there are two poems by a young poet, Jorge
Lopez, which may be interesting because they are actually written by a kid.
On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> -the famous poem by countee cullen abt being called "nigger" in --baltimore?
> can't remember what' its' called.
> -anything by gary soto; living up the street teaches extremely well
> -house on mango st, cisneros
> md
>
>
>
>
> In message <POETICS%96081407295085@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> UB Poetics discussion
> group writes:
> > For a friend who is looking for 'accessible' poems to spice up
> > a mostly prose syllabus on growing up marginalized:
> > any suggestions of poems about growing up gay/lesbian,
> > growing up chicano/a, jewish, puertoriqueno/a, black,
> > native american, asian american, disabled, .... ?
> >
> > Janet
> > jsgray@pucc.princeton.edu
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:55:18 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: william marsh <wmarsh@NUNIC.NU.EDU>
Subject: Re: speed and WODEN Nichol
Perhaps the "speed" discussion has run its course but just wanted to point
out by way of postscript (sorry if it's already been mentioned) bp Nichol's
treatment of it in "Probable Systems 18" (_art facts_) -- an amazing series
of dream commentaries which constructs (to quote) "a number of numbered
energy routes and details them in terms of acceleration & deceleration."
What interests me is the way he *maps* his "Accelerator and decelerator
calculations", suggesting a treatment of speed (motion) and locale (space)
within the same equation. "What this map gives us access to is an
understanding of 'the speed of thot'..." ---> a speed map, which as he
writes earlier points to "the ability to analyze reading at a finer level of
detail i.e. the change of tempo from letter to letter in any cluster of
letters (be they words or more abstract groupings)."
An amazing poem (and book) for any who haven't read it. (Available, by the
way, through Chax.)
bmarsh
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:57:20 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: william marsh <wmarsh@NUNIC.NU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tyuonyi & building clocks
At 08:47 PM 8/13/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Two things:
>
>Does anyone know if - Tyuonyi is still published and any contact issue with
>either the mag or Phillip Foss if it isn't published anymore.
I've tried repeatedly to locate Phillip and the mag, but to no avail. Not
much help, sorry, but i'm curious as well.
bmarsh
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:20:04 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Daniel Bouchard <Daniel_Bouchard@HMCO.COM>
Subject: Pub Announcement: MASS AVE.
I'm pleased to announce the publication of the premier issue of MASS AVE. This
first issue is devoted exclusively to poetry thematically grounded (loosely) in
the city. The works of 14 poets from 9 cities are featured. They are:
Jawanza Ali Keita
Ange Mlinko
Jordan Davis
Renee Gladman
Chris Stroffolino
David Baratier
Giovanni Singleton
Bill Luoma
Lisa Amber Phillips
Beth Anderson
Meredith Quartermain
Steve Carll
Michael Leddy
David Golumbia
56 pages, perfect-bound.
For a copy, please send 5 dollars to
MASS AVE.
Daniel Bouchard
PO Box 230
Boston, MA 02117
Make checks payable to Daniel Bouchard
Thanks.
daniel_bouchard@hmco.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:38:19 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: growing up poems
For Janet Gray:
Two writers who have much material which may be of interest, use
are Joseph Bruchac and Leslie Marmon Silko. Excellent writers both.
Joseph Bruchac has also written many childrens' books presenting Native
American texts.
Though not poems (more prose poems, really) two excellent
presentations of growing up in a marginalized community are Jack
Kerouac's Visions of Gerard and Doctor Sax. Visions of Gerard especially
has a polyphony of sounds in its movement among Nashua and Lowell
Quebecois and American English.
As my Pepere used to say, thank God for Kerouac--now Americans
know Quebecois can be more than hockey players and lumberjacks.
Lowell now has along with the Quebecois and Greek and Irish
communities Kerouac wrote of a vital and growing Cambodian community.
Comme on dit: Vive les differences!
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:53:41 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joseph Lease <lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960815112050.9719A-100000@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
re: growing up texts
just to mention some obvious ones--
Call It Sleep by Henry Roth
Go Tell It on the Mountain by James Baldwin
in a way--
Dutchman by Leroi Jones / Amiri Baraka
(as well as tons of his early poems)
--reading other people's suggestions for this area has been very
exciting--
All Best,
Joseph Lease
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:44:29 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: problems with the Azi message
Did anyone besides Charles have problems with this message coming into
their system? Sorry if it did. gab.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:03:22 PST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Franklin Bruno <BRUNO@HUMNET.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
Comments: To: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Question for gale nelson or others:
What do you see as the Andrews' two essentially different approaches?
I've always thought of his work as largely having all of its ducks in
a row from the start--what am I missing? Whenish do you see the
break?
fjb
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:01:40 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: problems with the Azi message
In message <Pine.GSO.3.93.960815074353.23219B-100000@uhunix5> UB Poetics
discussion group writes:
> Did anyone besides Charles have problems with this message coming into
> their system? Sorry if it did. gab.
problems as in technical difficulties or problems as in objections?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:11:07 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:03:22 PST from
<BRUNO@HUMNET.UCLA.EDU>
I've looked at works like Corona (1973) and Film Noir (1978) as working with
reader/audience in ways significantly different from the work by Andrews that
I've seen over the last few years. Film Noir uses the page itself as instrument
of reception -- typography/layout questions carrying a certain amount of weight
This does not, it seems, become instrumental in the Andrews texts I've reviewed
more recently. The characteristics of Corona are just beyond my reach at
present -- I've not looked at it for some years, and shall make further
comments tomorrow once having done so -- but when I read anything else by
Andrews, that text always whispers to me as though from a separate carriage.
Perhaps others will remark on Corona while I revisit it.
Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:27:08 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1996 to 11 Aug 1996
In-Reply-To: <960814200815_456659433@emout13.mail.aol.com>
Of COURSE!! I should look for him round here. He would have had time to
make it this far by now... gab.
On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Douglis Beck wrote:
> debra sez: "Craven's probably surfin the waves." not sure what that means,
> but there it is. go figure.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:38:59 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joseph Lease <lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96081514251386@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Gale Nelson wrote:
> I've looked at works like Corona (1973) and Film Noir (1978) as working with
> reader/audience in ways significantly different from the work by Andrews that
> I've seen over the last few years. Film Noir uses the page itself as instrument
> of reception -- typography/layout questions carrying a certain amount of weight
> This does not, it seems, become instrumental in the Andrews texts I've reviewed
> more recently. The characteristics of Corona are just beyond my reach at
> present -- I've not looked at it for some years, and shall make further
> comments tomorrow once having done so -- but when I read anything else by
> Andrews, that text always whispers to me as though from a separate carriage.
>
> Perhaps others will remark on Corona while I revisit it.
>
> Gale
Gale,
--in terms of politics and reception--how would you describe the force or
weight of Andrews's syntax--in recent work--
Cheers,
Joseph>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:49:46 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: problems with the Azi message
In-Reply-To: <321366015725308@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
Sorry, technical problems. Chas said it kept jumping him off e-mail.
gab. Objections...?
On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> In message <Pine.GSO.3.93.960815074353.23219B-100000@uhunix5> UB Poetics
> discussion group writes:
> > Did anyone besides Charles have problems with this message coming into
> > their system? Sorry if it did. gab.
>
> problems as in technical difficulties or problems as in objections?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:48:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Emily Lloyd <emilyl@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Incident...
yep, that's the name of Cullen's poem. It wasn't the fabulous ani
difranco, tho, but Disappear Fear who incorporated Cullen's poem into the
lyrics of their song "Who's So Scared," adding a second verse of their
own about growing up queer...em
Julie Marie Schmid wrote:
>
> Hey Maria et al,
>
> I believe the Cullen poem is called "Incident." Somone (I can't remember
> the artist's name) covered it on an album recently. I brought that in to
> play for my class the day we discussed the poem, and it was a great way
> to get the students into it. It may have been Ani DiFranco--does anyone
> know if that's right?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:57:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Emily Lloyd <emilyl@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Incident
yep, that's the name of Cullen's poem. It wasn't the fabulous ani
difranco, tho, but Disappear Fear who incorporated Cullen's poem into the
lyrics of their song "Who's So Scared" (on self-titled album), adding a
second verse of their own about growing up queer...an experience which,
to hark back to the Plath thread, they briefly compare to the Shoah...em
Julie Marie Schmid wrote:
>
> Hey Maria et al,
>
> I believe the Cullen poem is called "Incident." Somone (I can't remember
> the artist's name) covered it on an album recently. I brought that in to
> play for my class the day we discussed the poem, and it was a great way
> to get the students into it. It may have been Ani DiFranco--does anyone
> know if that's right?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:45:46 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:38:59 -0400 from
<lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
In work from the early-mid period of this decade, I received the work as being
driven by a manic "found language" machine, fed by logical sentence structure
with unexpected content <I cheese my drawers>, unexpected turns within a
larger sentence structure <Most of life is just pre-school anyway; paste like
that, money should be detached from ego -- creme, no sugar, no urine, like the
junior mints of a previous century; I'm nothing more than a noise gate.> In
<I cheese my drawers>, which continues, there's something akin to a confession/
admission, but of what? With <Most of life...>, there's the kind of statement
start-point that could be the basis for a best-selling self-help book, but
what follows distracts the reader (or at least this reader) from staying with
that "thought" -- and becomes centered on "I'm nothing more than a noise
gate." So then, intersperse statements of "politics" -- <Woman's place =
sexual deviance, doesn't it have pockets?> <in America country means white> --
give the reader the open-door as to read something "ironically," "straight"
"meaningfully meaningless" <Stalin's genius consisted of not french-kising:
sometimes I want to be in crud.> -- the work in relation to the political pull
seems to be "in the mix" -- but how does "narrator" or "voice" play in
Andrews? The tone is awash with layers of urbanity, hipness, coyness,
reportage, quasi-reportage, etc. So, the poltical statements may resonate
when the poem is set down -- or the politics may be in destablizing the very
nature of received communication (or at least opening up the potential).
The reader, depending upon the degree to which s/he has already come to grips
with "received communication structures") will converge upon the text in a
hermeneutics of deciphering. And what is deciphered has indicators, surely,
witness <Biko/Biko/Biko> as the repeated word possibly out of the mouth of
a parrot; it holds a primacy in visual space toward the end of the poem, so a
"mouthing" by the parrot seems to suggest the yearning of the reader for
a certain justice in South Africa pulls the political into focus once more.
Of course, the poem doesn't end there -- too determined for the reader, but
it resonates from there. (The poem I'm reacting to is Stalin's Genius,
selected as the Hoover anthology was most readily available as "Guide to
Bruce Andrews" this summer afternoon).
Now, spacing on the page plays a subtle role here. In Film Noir, for
instance, I sense spacing as my primary way into the text at hand.
Cheers, gale
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:16:29 CST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Baratier <dave.baratier@MOSBY.COM>
Subject: tying up
If there is anybody on the list Rodrigo's new phone number in San
Francisco, please back channel ASAP.
As for my new digs:
David Baratier
934 Ebner St.
Columbus, OH 43206
(614) 443-2614
The journal address will stay the same. Thanks to all who participated
in the PBQ film issue and those who ordered books from us. For people
who have ordered the grenier title in advance (Herb, CFunk, etc) the
printing is finished and we should have it in the mail later this
month.
Be well
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:47:11 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julie Marie Schmid <jschmid@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: problems with the Azi message
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.93.960815084858.25037R-100000@uhunix5>
Hey--
That happened to me, too. I thought it was something with my program or
my Mac. What's the deal?
On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
> Sorry, technical problems. Chas said it kept jumping him off e-mail.
> gab. Objections...?
>
> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
>
> > In message <Pine.GSO.3.93.960815074353.23219B-100000@uhunix5> UB Poetics
> > discussion group writes:
> > > Did anyone besides Charles have problems with this message coming into
> > > their system? Sorry if it did. gab.
> >
> > problems as in technical difficulties or problems as in objections?
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:12:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Walter K. Lew" <WKL888@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
Dear Janet S. Gray,
The following most quickly come to mind as being fresh and accessible
without being simplistic:
Early 20th-century, Lower Eastside, NYC/Brownsville, Brooklyn Jewish
childhood:
Charles Reznikoff, Part III ("Early History of a Writer") of "By the Well of
Living and Seeing", available in _Poems1918-1975: The Complete Poems of
Charles Reznikoff_, Seamus Cooney, ed. (Black Sparrow 1989), pp. 137-78.
Bi-racial and sexuality issues from an Asian American feminist perspective,
set largely in NY and Hawaii:
KIMIKO HAHN, _Earshot_ (Hanging Loose 1992) and _Unbearable Heart (Kaya
Production1995), poems abt childhood scattered throughout.
Growing up gay, Filipino, and proto-diva in Hawaii:
R. Zamora Linmark, _Rolling the Rs_ (Kaya 1995)
Chinese American family life and searches to recover a personalized Chinese
American West Coast history:
Alan Chong Lau, _Songs for Jadina_ (Greenfield Review Press 1980, out of
print)
Childhood years in a Japanese American concentration camp during World War 2:
Lawson Fusao Inada, _Legends from Camp_ (Coffee House 1993). (A wonderful
reader for student audiences by the way; teaches at Southern Oregon State in
Ashlans.)
From _Premonitions_ (WKL888, ed. [20% discounted copies can be ordered
directly from me]):
Growing up in 1960s NY Chinatown:
FRANCES CHUNG, first eight of the nine poems, pp. 50-57.
Lesbian schooldays:
ANN KONG, "Ponies and Spanish Guitars", pp. 152-54.
Childhood in Vietnam during the war and moving to the U.S. as an adoptee:
CHRISTIAN LANGWORTHY, five poems, pp. 206-220.
Sexual tensions and violence in multi-racial Hawaiian high school settings:
LOIS-ANN YAMANAKA, four poems, pp. 412-423.
Warning:
Although the huge _New Worlds of Literature: Writings from America's Many
Cultures_ (Norton 1989, 1994) includes several genres of prose and poetry and
is pedagogically tempting to some for its breadth of ethnic constituencies,
Norton anthology-style questions, and teacher's guide, I find most of the
work plain boring-a prime example of homogenized, reduced, non-specific,
linguistically unadventurous textbook multiculturalism. (The second edition
is, however, better than the first.) Some of the work is good or useful
(including maybe my own poem!), but you have to wade through so much to find
it.
Hope this is of use.
Walter K. Lew
Until August 30:
8 Old Colony Rd.
Old Saybrook, CT 06475
860-388-4601 (ph/fax)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:03:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kathrine Varnes <kvarnes@UDEL.EDU>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
In-Reply-To: <960815171253_260574296@emout19.mail.aol.com>
here's another:
Wanda Coleman -- "Poetry Lesson Number One" in _Heavy Daughter Blues_
(Black Sparrow, 91?)
Kathrine Varnes
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:15:47 +1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: DS <dpsalmon@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
You could try and get hold of one of Roma Potiki's books. (New Zealand Maori
poet) She is 'accessible', and also at times pretty bloody thought provoking
and good. Also for accessibility, Dancing on the Rim of the Earth. 'An
Anthology of Contemporary Northwest Native American Writing.' ed Andrea
Lerner. (Arizona Press) is pretty didactic at times, but also has some good
stuff. (Can pm me if you want more info about Roma Potiki)
Regards,
Dan
>In message <POETICS%96081407295085@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> UB Poetics discussion
>group writes:
>> For a friend who is looking for 'accessible' poems to spice up
>> a mostly prose syllabus on growing up marginalized:
>> any suggestions of poems about growing up gay/lesbian,
>> growing up chicano/a, jewish, puertoriqueno/a, black,
>> native american, asian american, disabled, .... ?
>>
>> Janet
>> jsgray@pucc.princeton.edu
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:17:02 +1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: DS <dpsalmon@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: growing up poems
Well then, why not Ginsberg.
At 11:38 AM 8/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>For Janet Gray:
>
> Two writers who have much material which may be of interest, use
>are Joseph Bruchac and Leslie Marmon Silko. Excellent writers both.
>Joseph Bruchac has also written many childrens' books presenting Native
>American texts.
>
> Though not poems (more prose poems, really) two excellent
>presentations of growing up in a marginalized community are Jack
>Kerouac's Visions of Gerard and Doctor Sax. Visions of Gerard especially
>has a polyphony of sounds in its movement among Nashua and Lowell
>Quebecois and American English.
>
> As my Pepere used to say, thank God for Kerouac--now Americans
>know Quebecois can be more than hockey players and lumberjacks.
>
> Lowell now has along with the Quebecois and Greek and Irish
>communities Kerouac wrote of a vital and growing Cambodian community.
>
> Comme on dit: Vive les differences!
>
>--dave baptiste chirot
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:16:45 +1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: DS <dpsalmon@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: info on azi (fwd)
Meanwhile New Zealand happily plays rugby against an Afrikaaner convicted of
beating a black farm boy to death.
Its not just horrendous it's fucking sick.
At 06:20 PM 8/14/96 -1000, you wrote:
>I got information before I forwarded this because it seemed so extreme and
>horrendous. gab.
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:19:29 -1000
>From: NCADP1@aol.com
>To: welford@hawaii.edu
>Subject: info on azi
>
>Gabrielle,
>We received your request. Please excuse the dealay in getting back to you.
> We've been running day and night on this case.
>
>Enclosed please find A)an article that recently ran in the Jackson Advocate
> B) an excerpt from the pre-trial hearing and C) an articel that ran in the
>Clarion-Ledger last April.
>
>I hope these will give you a satisfactory range of perspectives and
>information.
>
>If I can be of further service, please don't hesitate to call on me.
>
>
>In Solidarity,
>
>Ben Jealous
>NCADP Program Coordinator
>___________________________________________________________________
>South African Child Facing Legal Lynching, Civil Rights Activists Protest
>
>
> "Under Apartheid, under the state of emergency, Black children were
tried as
>adults," observed Elaine Salo, a South African doctoral candidate studying in
>Atlanta. "This case is very reminiscent of that situation. He may not be
>accused of a political crime, but they are not taking his age into
>consideration. This is really a child we are talking about."
> After surviving some of Apartheid's most turbulent years, Azikiwe
Kambule a
>10th grade South African child is facing the death penalty in Mississippi
>for a crime in which many say he was little more than a bystander.
> Despite having no criminal record, no history of violence,
providing his
>full cooperation to the authorities, and not being present when the killing
>took place Azi has been charged as an accomplice to capital murder.
> Mississippi is seeking the death penalty against Azi-- a child who isn't
>even old enough to buy a beer, let alone sit on a jury.
> Two local prosecutors, Hinds County District Attorney Ed Peters and
Madison
>County D.A. James Kitchens, have already acted to seal Azi's fate.
> In April, Peters was quoted in the Clarion-Ledger, a local daily
newspaper,
>as saying that because the "jurors in [predominantly black] Hinds County have
>a reputation for refusing to vote for the death penalty," he and Kitchens
>moved Azi's trial to Madison County where the outcome would be more certain,
>if not predictable.
> The setting for John Grisham's A Time To Kill, Madison's racial
environment
>is notorious. "That jury's gonna lynch 'em," says Charles Tisdale, publisher
>of The Jackson Advocate. "It's just that simple."
> With one of the largest white populations in Mississippi, Madison
has become
>a virtual haven for the state's less tolerant elites.
> "That county is home to this country's richest and poorest
people," says
>Tisdale. "The white folks ran there to avoid desegregation, and the black
>folks who've stayed have never received the benefit of their own civil
>rights."
> Like his fictitious counterpart in Grisham's's novel, county
officials say,
>the current Madison County D.A. is hoping this high profile death penalty
>case will advance his career.
> "Word is he's planning on running for Judge soon," said a county
attorney
>who asked his name not be printed.
> Azi's friends and supporters say they are concerned that the part-time
>public defender who's defending him won't be up to the challenge.
> "Those attorneys are contracted-- they aren't paid anything extra
to handle
>capital trials," says Sheila O'Flaherty who was with the Mississippi Capital
>Defense Resource Center until congressional Republicans eliminated its
>funding earlier this year. The office had been charged with making sure that
>cases like Azi's didn't fall through the cracks.
> According to Steve Hawkins, executive director of the National
Coalition to
>Abolish the Death Penalty, court-appointed attorneys in southern states often
>receive the equivalent of 4 or 5 dollars per hour to handle death penalty
>trials.
> "Look at the facts," says Reverend Robert Abrams, a United
Methodist pastor
>from Gulfport, Mississippi, "and you will see this boy is more of a victim
>than anything else."
> Azikiwe Kambule came to the United States two years ago with his mother
>who had received a fellowship to finish her college education in America.
> "He was very excited," remembers his mother, Busisiwe Chabeli. "He had
>always heard us talk about America and he wanted the chance to see for
>himself."
> As a student at Chastain Middle School in Jackson, Azi had no trouble
>adjusting academically; he received excellent grades, was placed in honors
>classes and joined the school choir. Yet, Azi found himself under immense
>social pressure -- he didn't look, speak or dress like other children in his
>neighborhood.
> Azi wanted to "fit in" with his peers, and not be the subject of their
>ridicule. He met and started spending time with youth who were older and
>very street-wise.
> While attending Jackson's Murrah High School, Azi's grades began to
fall;
>his parents worried that his new friends were the wrong crowd. Fearing the
>worst, they decided to scrape together the funds to send Azi to a boarding
>school. Tragically, it was already too late.
> Last January, a week before he was to leave for the Piney Woods
School, Azi
>found himself in the middle of a car-jacking in which a young African
>American woman was kidnapped and ultimately killed.
> According to police testimony during a pre-trial hearing, Azi
himself was so
>far away from the crime scene that he did not hear the gunshots. When
>arrested, he was the only one to cooperate with the police. He fully
>explained the terrible series of events that ended with the death of Pamela
>McGill-- a young African American woman who was popular in the local
>community. After his arrest, Azi tried repeatedly to help the authorities in
>their investigation.
> Civil rights activists say they fear that outrage about McGill's
murder has
>inhibited many people's ability to see the injustice being perpetrated by
>local prosecutors.
> "While the tragedy of Ms. McGill's death is an emotional fire
burning out of
>control in our community, we must look at the larger political dynamic of the
>prosecutors' decision to move this trial to Madison County to ensure these
>two young people get the death penalty," commented L.C. Dorsey, assistant
>professor of social work at Jackson State University and former executive
>director of the Mississippi Prison Defense Committee.
> "It seems that their guilt has been decided even before the trial has
>begun."
>Scheduled to commence August 19, Azi's case is already beginning to attract
>national and international attention.
> "The situation in which Azi finds himself speaks volumes about the
use of
>the death penalty against children," Hawkins says.
> "During this decade, only five nations in the world are known to have
>executed persons for crimes they committed before their eighteenth birthday.
> Those countries are Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia . . . and the
>United States. And America has executed more than the other four combined."
> According to the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty, a
>condemned child in the United States also tends to be of darker hue -- 66% of
>those persons sentenced to death as children have been from racial
>minorities.
> "Nowhere is the international rule of law more clear than the
prohibition on
>the use of the death penalty against children. The International Covenant on
>Civil and Political Rights, which the United States has ratified, clearly
>states that the 'sentence of death shall not be imposed for crimes committed
>by persons below the age of eighteen'," Hawkins explains. "Indeed, every
> major human rights treaty in the world has the same express wording."
> Rev. Abrams says he is concerned that Americans have become so
fearful and
>angry about violence in their communities that they're no longer
>contemplating the consequences of their responses to crime.
> "There is a feeding frenzy going on in America right now" he says.
"And we
>are feeding on our youth."
>--_____________________________________________________________________
>[NOTE: This is only an excerpt from the complete transcript. The
>information cited below can be found on pages 1 and 3-14 of the official
>transcript, which is available from the Madison County Circuit Court Clerk's
>Office]
>
>IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT
>OF HINDS COUNTY, MISSISSIPPI
>
>STATE OF MISSISSIPPI
PLAINTIFF
>VERSUS NOS. 96-228
& 96-229
>RUDY RHODES AND
>SANTONIO BERRY
DEFENDANTS
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>TRANSCRIPT OF THE PROCEEDINGS HAD AND DONE IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING OF THE
>ABOVE-STYLED AND NUMBERED CAUSES BEFORE THE HONORABLE WILLIAM R. BARNETT,
>HINDS COUNTY JUDGE, ON THE 22ND DAY OF FEBRUARY, 1996.
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LEMON:
> Q. Would you state your name, please.
> A. James French.
> Q. Where are you employed?
> A. City of Jackson Police Department, Violent Crimes Task Force.
> Q. How long have you been employed there?
> A. I've been employed with the police department a little over
18 years.
> Q. Have you had reason to investigate a crime involving a Rudy
Rhodes and
>Santonio Berry?
> A. Yes, sir, I have.
> Q. Did you also investigate a crime involving an Azikiwe Kambule?
> A. Yes, sir, I did.
> Q. And they are all related in the same crime?
> A. Yes, sir.
> Q. Do you understand that because Mr. Kambule's attorney is
not able to be
>here today because of a conflict we're only going to proceed on Mr. Rhodes
>and Mr. Berry?
> A. Yes, sir.
> Q. Okay. What crime had you investigated the defendant Rhodes
and defendant
>Berry for?
> A. The initial crime was simply a missing person. They
were--they have been
>arrested and charged. Mr Berry has been charged with armed robbery and
>kidnapping, Mr. Rhodes has been charged with accessory to armed robbery and
>accessory to kidnapping.
> Q. And where did this crime take place or begin?
> A. 1523 County Line Road, Somerset Apartments.
> Q. Is that in the First Judicial District of Hinds County?
> A. Yes, sir.
> Q. Could you please tell the Court the involvement in the
crimes as to Rudy
>Rhodes and Santonio Berry; and when necessary please speak to defendant
>Azikiwe Kambule, also.
> A. Yes, sir. Initially Pamela McGill was reported missing on
the 25th of
>September [sic]. We obtained a bank photo from the Trustmark Bank at County
>Line Road, an ATM machine, showing Ms. McGill--the last know time that we
>know that she was alive at 5:55 P.M. on that date. As she drives through
>the--away from the ATM a white Mitsubishi driven by Mr. Berry, a clear facial
>shot of him, pulls through the ATM. From that point on Ms. McGill has never
>been seen. She had a meeting set up for 6:20--6:15 that day. The person that
>was supposed to meet her did not arrive at her apartment until 6:20. Ms
>McGill was not there at that time. She's never been seen from again. The--Ms.
>McGill at the time she went through the bank was driving her 1993 red Dodge
>Stealth. She withdrew $50.00 in cash from the bank, and there was a debit
>against her account for $51.00, the extra one dollar against the account. We
>began looking for the vehicle. We received information that an individual
>from Laurel and two from Jackson were trying to sell the vehicle in Laurel on
>a street called Lucas Street. We contacted Laurel P.D. Laurel P.D. began
>looking for the vehicle. They found the vehicle parked on a parking lot at
>Howard Industries in Laurel. This was on the 5th of February around 5:00 P.M.
>The vehicle was processed for evidence by the Mississippi State Crime Lab.
>Items missing from the vehicle were the car radio, a set of floor mats, and a
>cellular telephone--Dodge Stealth floor mats. Also found in the car was a
>spent hull from a Makarov pistol, a 9 by 18 Makarov style--Makarov style
>pistol. They recovered other pieces of evidence. February the 6th a Mr.
>Preston Ramsey contacted us and advised that he had received information that
>Rudy Rhodes and two individuals from Jackson had taken the red Dodge Stealth
>to an Oscar George in Laurel. Detective Windham with the Laurel P.D. was
>contacted and asked to locate Oscar George. In the meantime, members of the
>task force went to Laurel. On the 6th special agent--FBI agent Artis and
>detective--and myself interviewed Oscar George. Oscar George stated that Rudy
>Rhodes and two individuals that he thought to be from Jackson had tried to
>sell him this red Dodge Stealth for a thousand dollars. On the 6th members of
>the Violent Crimes Task Force and the Fugitive Task Force arrested Rudy
>Rhodes. At 8:30 P.M. Rudy Rhodes signed a rights waiver form. This was
>witnessed by FBI agent Hal Neilson, Mississippi Highway Patrol investigator
>Tommy Squires, and myself. Rudy Rhodes then gave a written statement as to
>this incident.
> Q. Without getting into the--exactly what was said in the
statement, could
>you please tell the Court the effect of that statement?
> A. The statement indicates that Azikiwe Kambule and Berry
showed up at
>Rhodes' apartment. They were driving a red Dodge Stealth. Rhodes indicated
>that as soon as he saw it he knew that it was probably a stolen vehicle. They
>wanted to go to Laurel. He had already planned to go to Laurel, so he allowed
>them to follow. Rhodes and his girlfriend, Pammy Porter, rode in Rhodes' red
>Dodge--in a red Plymouth Laser; and the red Dodge Stealth driven by Berry and
>a passenger, Kambule, followed. Pammy Porter spent the night at her mother's
>house. Berry, Kambule, and Rhodes spent the night, the night that Ms. McGill
>first--missed her first appointment. The next day, Friday, Rhodes stated that
>he took Kambule and Berry to Oscar George's business which is a repair shop,
>auto repair shop; and they did in fact try to sell the car for a thousand
>dollars. Santonio Berry removed the radio from the vehicle and placed it in
>the trunk of the red Plymouth Laser that's jointly owned by Rudy Rhodes and a
>Stacy Roy. While in Laurel, Santonio Berry and Azikiwe Kambule told Rhodes
>that they had followed a woman driving from a bank to some apartment. They
>made the woman move over and drove toward Raymond. They turned off the
>highway toward Raymond on a long, dark road, made the woman get out, and
>drove off. They did not tell Rhodes, according to his statement, that they
>had murdered her. Super Bowl Sunday, which I believe is the 28th--they came
>back to Jackson on Saturday. Pammy Porter drove the Plymouth Laser, and the
>three individuals were in the car with her. And Super Bowl Sunday Berry went
>back to Rhodes and said he wanted to go back to Laurel. Rhodes and Berry went
>back to Laurel and moved the vehicle from an individual's house to the
>parking lot at Howard Industries where they left it. And that's basically
>Rhodes' statement.
> Q. Okay. Did any of the others make any statements?
> A. Yes, sir. Azikiwe Kambule when he was arrested by special
agent Neilson,
>investigator Squires, and myself made a statement that he and--to the effect
>that he and Berry had in fact observed Pam McGill on the parking lot of the
>Trustmark Bank at the corner of County Line and Wheatley. They were standing
>outside of Berry's car about to use an ATM card themselves. Ms McGill drove
>around them, pulled in the machine. Berry made a statement that he wanted
>that car. They got back into Berry's car, followed her to the apartments.
>Kambule said that it appeared to him that Ms. McGill was getting out of her
>vehicle as if to check the mail, and at which point--
> Q. This is back at her apartment?
> A. At Somerset Apartments. Kambule stated that Berry used his
Makarov pistol
>to force Ms. Berry [sic] back into the car. He forced here through the
>driver's seat into the passenger's seat of this vehicle. Berry got in behind
>the driver's seat with the weapon on Ms. McGill. Kambule indicated that he
>got into the passengers door and almost had to lie down to get behind the
>from seat--behind the seat on the passenger's side. Berry drove. Kambule
>again was right behind the seat. Ms. McGill was in the right, front seat.
>They left Berry's Mitsubishi at Somerset Apartments. As they drove, Pam
>McGill kept begging for them to just take the car and take her money and let
>her go. According to Kambule, they went to a road down toward Raymond. Berry
>stopped the car, made the woman get out, and he told Kambule to turn the car
>around. Kambule stayed in the car. Berry walked the woman into the woods.
>Kambule tried to turn the car around. He cannot drive a straight shift and
>could not get it turned around. Berry returned shortly; and Berry
>stated--according the Kambule, Berry said that he had shot--he had made the
>girl kneel down and shot her in the back of the head. They then went,
>according to Kambule, went to Rhodes' apartment. There they left the Dodge
>and had Rudy Rhodes take them back to where they had left the white
>Mitsubishi. Berry drove the Mitsubishi to his apartment on Poplar Avenue.
>They then returned to Rudy Rhodes' home and then went to Laurel. Kambule
>tried to point out the road that--where the--where Ms. McGill had been
>placed, but he was not successful.
> Q. Has anyone else attempted to assist the police or the
authorities in
>finding Ms. McGill's body?
> A. In--no, they all--
> Q. Concerning the defendants.
> A. We got statements from Cedric Bernard Jones and from a
Brian Cooley. They
>were with all three defendants on the Saturday night--excuse me--on the
>Friday night following the abduction; and Santonio Berry showed Brian Cooley
>the firearm. All three defendants showed these two witnesses the vehicle. At
>that time it was--when they saw it, it was parked on the parking lot at Jones
>County Junior College. They talked about the incident; and according to
>Cooley and Jones, they indicated that they had forced the woman into the car,
>taken her to a long, dark road and made her get out. Jones and Cooley
>indicated they thought the woman was still alive when she was put out of the
>vehicle. Pammy Porter was interviewed by agents Neilson and Detective Rainey,
>and she indicated that she had in fact gone to Laurel, that when she
>first--on the night of the incident when she returned home, she walked into
>her apartment and heard Santonio Berry saying something to the effect "two
>shots, pow, pow." She went on into the apartment. They wanted to go to
>Laurel. They followed Porter and Rhodes to Laurel, that during the weekend
>she did in fact overhear them saying that they had taken the car--taken the
>woman, taken the car and put her out on a long, dark road. On the way back
>from Laurel that Saturday, Pammy Porter was driving the vehicle with the
>other three individuals in it. She was stopped in Mendenhall-on Highway 49 at
>Mendenhall and issued a ticket for driving with no tag.
> Q. How did the two defendants that abducted Ms. McGill receive
their vehicle
>back that they had parked at her apartment complex?
> A. According to Kambule, Rhodes--they went--after they put Ms.
McGill out,
>they went to Rhodes' apartment. They got into Rhodes' car. Rhodes took them
>to Somerset Apartments. Berry got into the Mitsubishi, drove the Mitsubishi
>to Poplar Street where he had an apartment, and this is prior to going to
>Laurel.
> Q. I'm sorry. Where were the items that were taken from Ms.
McGill's car
>found?
> A. The radio that was taken from Ms. McGill's car was found in
the trunk of
>Rudy Rhodes' car. He identified it as being the radio that came out of the
>car. The cellular telephone was recovered by Laurel Police Department. An
>individual turned it in, and an individual there whose name escapes me now
>identified it as being the phone that came out of that car. The floor mats
>from the vehicle were found in a mini storage building in Clinton during the
>serving of a search warrant. So that' the only three items we've recovered
>from the car. The Makarov pistol we believe to have been used in the incident
>was found in the possession of Mr. Berry at the time he was arrested by
>Clinton Police Department...
>CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. FORTNER:
> Q. Jim, I've just got a few questions. How long after Kambule
was arrested
>did you arrest Mr. Berry?
> A. Mr. Berry was arrested somewhere in the neighborhood of
5:15, 5:30 in the
>morning.
> Q. Did Mr. Berry make any statements to the police?
> A. No, sir.
> Q. None at all?
> A. To my knowledge, no, sir.
> Q. Are you the only person that attempted to ask him any
questions, or did
>you attempt to ask him any questions?
> A. I was not present during the time he was arrested. I did
see him
>following his arrest. They brought him up to our office for processing into
>the jail. He was advised of his rights, but he didn't want to talk. So to my
>knowledge he's not made any statements whatsoever.
> Q. Did Mr. Kambule--is Mr. Kambule the only witness you've
spoken to or the
>only person you or anybody else has spoken to that says Mr. Berry told him
>that he killed the woman?
> A. Yes, sir.
> Q. All of the other people that you've talked to, the people
down in Laurel,
>the names that you listed, all of those people only say that Kambule and
>Berry said that they took her out on a road and put her out. Is that right?
> A. Yes.
> Q. Do we even know for certain what road we're talking about here?
> A. No.
> Q. So do we even know for certain that if this woman was
killed it occurred
>here in Hinds County?
> A. We know that the crime began in Hinds County.
> Q. But we don't know where it ended. Is that right?
> A. Correct.
> Q. Right now my client is not charged with murder. Is that right?
> A. Correct.
> Q. And is it your intention to try to present a murder charge
against him to
>the grand jury?
> A. Yes, sir.
> Q. Did Mr. Kambule--what time was it when they went through
the ATM?
> A. 5:55.
> Q. And what time was it when they got to Mr. Rhodes' apartment?
> A. There's some discrepancy on that.
> Q. What does Rhodes say?
> A. I think Rhodes and--I believe Rhodes said around 8:00 or
9:00 P.M.
> Q. What about Kambule?
> A. He didn't say.
> Q. And Kambule testified--or in his statement he told you
that--he told you
>that he did see my client with a gun. Is that right?
> A. Kambule? Yes, sir.
> Q. How long--you said that Kambule said that Mr. Berry left
the car with Ms.
>McGill; and he tried to turn the car around, couldn't do so, and Berry
>returned shortly.
> A. Yes, sir.
> Q. What is shortly?
> A. I don't know.
> Q. Was he any more specific than that?
> A. No.
> Q. Did Mr. Kambule tell you that while Mr. Berry and Ms.
McGill were outside
>of the vehicle that he heard a gunshot?
> A. He specifically said he did not hear a gunshot.
>BY MR. FORTNER: That's all.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------------------------------------------
>MADISON COUNTY WILL TRY SUSPECTS IN MCGILL SLAYING
>
>[Note: This is a copy of an article that ran in Jackson, Mississippi's
>Clarion-Ledger Neewspaper on April 5, 1995]
>
> Pamela McGill's suspected killers will be tried in Madison County,
officials
>said Thursday.
> Investigators said they don't plan to directly file charges related to
>McGill's slaying against Santonio Berry, 21, and Azikiwe Kambule, 17, but
>will present the case to the grand jury as a capital murder punishable by the
>death penalty.
> "I requested the Madison County District Attorney take the case and
he's
>agreed to do that," said Hinds County District Attorney, Ed Peters.
> "The family, from the beginning, has expressed a desire that the people
>charged get the death penalty and the best way is to send it to another
>county," Peters said.
> McGill, 31, disappeared Jan. 25. Police say the incident began in Hinds
>County, where she was kidnapped, and ended in Madison County, where she was
>slain.
> "Both counties would have jurisdiction," Peters said.
> Police say Berry wanted her sports car and he and Kambule kidnapped
her from
>her Jackson apartment. Kambule told police Berry drove the car to a deserted
>road outside Jackson and shot McGill in the head after making her walk into
>the woods and kneel.
> Berry, Kambule and Rudy Rhodes, 19, were arrested Feb. 7. Berry and
Kambule
>were charged with armed robbery and kidnapping, Rhodes was charged as an
>accessory.
> Rhodes is accused of arranging to sell McGill's red 1993 Dodge
Stealth in
>Laurel; investigators say Pammy Porter, 19, Rhodes' fiancee, also knew of the
>crime. Porter also is charged as an accessory.
> Madison County Coroner Alex Breeland said an autopsy confirmed
McGill was
>shot in the back of the head. The body was released to her family Thursday.
> McGill's body was found Thursday in a wooded area near North County
Line
>Road just inside Madison County after Berry pinpointed the general location
>for investigators.
> Two previous searches, based on Kambule's vague description of the
site,
>failed.
> Hinds County Sheriff Malcolm McMillin said he had no preference
which county
>will try the case.
> "My position is there's good judges and good juries in Hinds and
Madison
>counties," he said.
> Peters sees things differently.
> "The jurors in Hinds County have a reputation for refusing to vote
for the
>death penalty," he said. "Certain judges in Hinds County have gotten so
>prejudiced against the prosecution that they won't even allow confessions to
>be entered as evidence."
>_____-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------------------------
>END OF TRANSMISSION
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:56:53 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
Thanks D Chirot for comments on speed! !!! Slow reading has long
been a pleasure, like a couple of hours reading a page of prose (I
remember doing this kind of reading some years ago for preference
and being so delighted with it that I could not bear to read at
academic rates of page- per - 45 - seconds for many years).
Regarding slow looking, looking like a painter looks and
similar thoughts see James Elkins: The Object Stares Back (Simon
& Shuster, NY, March 1996) which a friend put in my hands
recently as a loan only. (Forcing fast reading on me, really.) The
modes of attention with ears and eyes are various and too little
explored I believe.
An hour looking at a Rembrandt portrait (say)
is barely a substitute for having the same portrait in your house on
your wall for thirty years, some days seeing it fleetingly with little
attention, some days absorbed by it for some indefinite time -- the
conditions of looking it was made for.
Ill and in bed one black and white ink drawing on the wall
opposite was enough to keep me happy for a couple of hours
one day this week. I watched the six rough oriental-looking brush
marks and four ink splashes shift in their varied and incomplete suggestions
of images, more engagingly than rabbit-duck readings of the "same" drawing.
For sheer slowness, Aram Saroyan one-word poems, or Clark Coolidge's
two word poems are of that order?
But then in midst of longer texts I recall falling over the two words
"monopoly polopony" of Ron Silliman (isn't that in Ketjak?), a hook,
I'd say, on which I was hooked for quite a long while.
Memory is fun that way. Like dreams, so hard to get it all down as it
presents itself to the wandering "mind" (a retelling as story-teller
of the intimate contents, all that soul to soul intention of openness
of J Kerouac). It all comes at you to quick and too dense and too
elaborate for slow sequential speech. Imagine telling what each image
in a quick-cut movie says before the next image hits.
Cough, cough cough, I'm going back to bed.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:08:14 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: problems with the Azi message
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.91.960815154623.84852C-100000@green.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Sorry, I don't know. Unless it's just cos it's so long. I'll write maybe
and tel lthem. gab.
On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Julie Marie Schmid wrote:
> Hey--
> That happened to me, too. I thought it was something with my program or
> my Mac. What's the deal?
>
> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Gabrielle Welford wrote:
>
> > Sorry, technical problems. Chas said it kept jumping him off e-mail.
> > gab. Objections...?
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> >
> > > In message <Pine.GSO.3.93.960815074353.23219B-100000@uhunix5> UB Poetics
> > > discussion group writes:
> > > > Did anyone besides Charles have problems with this message coming into
> > > > their system? Sorry if it did. gab.
> > >
> > > problems as in technical difficulties or problems as in objections?
> > >
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:09:39 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
sorry a line got omitted by the machine in my last posting, makes not
too much difference I guess. except that I mentioned James Elkins'
book Simon & Shuster, NY, March 1996 and the details got left out.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:10:19 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
and now i find it restored on my screen, spooky
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:19:54 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: info on azi (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199608152316.LAA14673@ihug.co.nz>
Yes, fucking sick about describes it. gab.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:54:26 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
>To Charles Bernstein---
>
>Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I never
>even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so dumb,
>forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without talking to
>the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you mean to
me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in Wyoming,
N.Y.
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:11:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Bruce Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
If early Bruce (Edge, Wobbling, Love Songs, Executive Summary)
"a manic "found language" machine"
later (Give em Enough Rope, I Don't Have Any Paper), as Perelman in
_Marginalization of Poetry_
"a kind of megaphone of the political unconscious."
Question of whether newish long work Lip Service might constitute yet another
'period' in his work.
But oh so much more to it than that.
Lots more on this early & late in forthcoming
_Aerial 9: Bruce Andrews_. Contributors to include DuPlessis, Quartermain,
Perloff, Levy, Friedlander, Rasula, Golding, Lazer, Price, Bellamy, McGann,
Lee Ann Brown & Hannah Weiner colab, Mittenthal, many others. Out this fall,
you'll be the first to know.
--Rod
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:20:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
>>From a relative-deprived Nelson (both my parents were only children),
>
>Gale
If that's all they were, how did they handle bringing up a third child?
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:39:08 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joel Kuszai <kuszai@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: fwd this? (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:27:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Juliana Spahr <js786@bard.edu>
To: kuszai@acsu.Buffalo.EDU
Subject: fwd this?
Joel:
Can you forward this to list? I'm out of my domain.
I have not left poetix list but just increased my email for some reason.
I seem to need 3 poetix lists.
That was sad joke attempt.
Here is my new address since I sent it out and now some of it is false:
Juliana Spahr
182 Elm St
Albany NY 12202
518-436-4074 (this changed)
I can be reached at some point soon at jms@acmenet.net.
Right now I can be reached at js786@bard.edu or jms@tiac.net.
I welcome anyone passing through Albany to call me up.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:25:51 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Resent-From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
Comments: Originally-From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: speed & poetry (fwd)
They were precocious perhaps...
Gale
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>From a relative-deprived Nelson (both my parents were only children),
>
>Gale
If that's all they were, how did they handle bringing up a third child?
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:33:19 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:45:46 EDT from
<EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
On the ever-continuing Bruce Andrews thread:
Here's a poor rendition of one page from _Film Noir_, with larger letters
being represented by: when just the first letter is larger: _GREAT (G is big)
the whole word is larger (than "standard"): _GREAT_ (all letters big)
Again, apologies for the poor representation:
TAUNTS
ORAL
HUSTLE
CRADLE
_DRUID?
HINGES
RIDE
LAVA
_XEROX
BADGES
TATTLE
SHILL
FEEBLE
MY PICKININNY
NATIONAL
TOXIC
EAR-DRUMS
LULL
TINT ECLAIR
PRAT
SPIRE
_MUCUS_
_HOLOGRAPH_
_INDIGNENT_
_PURE_
_HAY_
*** end of page
The sense of words floating -- having negative space to cushion -- will
perhaps increase the "slow reading" Tony Green was suggeting happens when
he looks at one-word or two-word poems -- & gives the words a level of primacy
I find less apparent in the denser text fields I've been more likely to
see from Bruce Andrews in more recent years. Better or worse? That is
not the point. What the reader is asked to do -- how gaps are formed, seems
more pertinent.
Cheers, Gale
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:00:09 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:33:19 EDT from
<EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Bruce Andrews thread ad nauseum?
Corona seems to hold together a more fragile vocal register -- the swaggering,
propulsive energy in "stalins genius" (quoted from, in passing, yesterday) is
little be found here. There's a hitch in the swing, to use baseball lingo
here, where the poem becomes, at many turns, about the _hitch_.
find it
never have
have it
reads section 17 of this sequence, and the movement between search and
possession/and the possibility of possession leads to wonderment in a
precisely tentative ground.
To read section 19:
my costumes
is to read a form of self-representation that cannot be pinned down. The
"my" is a multivalenced and the "costumes" equally so. These two words,
then, could be read as "referential" in a "sincere" sense, "exploratory"
of what "sincerity" might represent, or simply a passing reference to
any _my_ (not necessarily the "speaker/author/narrator" -- possibly just
a passing "Joe"/"Joanne") or to no specific _my_ whatsoever. The "cosume" is
equally open -- a reader might think of the writer wrapping himself (in this
case a himself) in the costume of poet, of "a creature" (there's lots of
"nature" blooming or emerging in other passages), etc.
The driving force for me in the poem, is the energy constructions through
the specificity of word selections in a taut field -- so that the page
reverberates many pages later (and earlier) as one passes through from
one field to the next. Context is -- s p a c e d o u t -- given a very
real breathing room. The gaps are laden. In later Andrews, the propulsion
factor seems the constructive force -- the gaps are in the inability to
process all of the information that comes careening toward the reader. So,
yes, I'd say that Andrews' work has changed over the last 20-some years.
Those of you who know Bruce Andrews and have talked with him about his work
can nod happily, saying, "Gale Nelson is an eccentric reader." But, alas,
this is where I'm at as such reader, eccentric, but interested.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:09:36 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Henry Gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:00:09 EDT from
<EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Just an aside to Gale's meditations on Bruce Andrews: at the Hoboken
Russ-American conference, Andrews read right after Jackson Mac Low.
The similarities, to my uneducated ear (I'v read very little of either
of them) were interesting. In both of them, the long riveted lines
of vocabulary, full of venom & glee, like a glossary of the Byzantine
empire read aloud by aliens from outer space. Only Mac Low seemd
more wry & somber; in Andrews the glee factor was higher. Ecclesiastes
& King David, respectively. - Henry Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:40:09 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: A.N. Chicherin
I wanted to thank all for the info on Tyuonyi, Foss and Taggart.
New question: Has 'Change of All' by Aleksey Nikolaevich Chicherin (1924)
ever been translated into english? If so where would I find it?
filch
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:31:02 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rod Smith <AERIALEDGE@AOL.COM>
Subject: New Andrews, Auster, Lazer &&& @ Bridge Street
All those new Northwestern collections, & much else.
1. _Paradise & Method: Poetry & Praxis_ by Bruce Andrews, Northwestern,
$16.95. Andrews' essays & interviews over two decades. "A syndicalism of
syntax and reference -- and of their intertwining that looks out beyond the
self-enclosures of the text toward an implicating of wider social (& bodily)
horizons. The vectors outward, an arrow array, love's body, from language's
social body."
2. _Why Write?_ by Paul Auster, Burning Deck, $10.
Little book of essays including title piece, wonderful reminiscence of
Reznikoff, & "Twenty-five Sentences Containing the Words _Charles
Bernstein_."
3. _Ports of Entry: William S. Burroghs and the Arts_, Robert A. Sobieszek
ed. w/ an afterword by Burroghs, L.A. County Museum of Art/ Thames & Hudson,
$24.95. Big art book for the price including Burroghs' recent paintings,
older collaborations w/ Gysin & others, Haring, Rauschenberg, & others. Lots
o' text too.
4. _Arcade_ by Erica Hunt, woodcuts by Alison Saar, Kelsey St., $15. Another
fine Kelsey St. artist/poet production. "The culture beats the brow with
equal parts spectacle and punishment, often in the same sitcom
(coming to a theater _in you_) . . .
5. _Opposing Poetries Volume One: Issues and Institutions_ by Hank Lazer,
Northwestern University Press, $16.95. "A broad awareness of the
decentralization of poetry production, as well as an established critique of
the limited nature of today's professionalized and institutionalized poetry
writing, have had a salutary effect on attempts to describe American poetry."
This collection is varied & engaging. Thanks Hank.
6. _Opposing Poetries Volume Two: Readings_ by Hank Lazer, Northwestern,
$16.95. Essays on Bernstein, DuPlessis, Silliman, Andrews, Hejinian, Howe,
Retallack, Messerli, Sherry, & & &. This collection is varied and engaging.
Thanks Hank.
7. _Swoon Rocket_ by Bill Luoma, The Figures, $6. It's "gobi time"!
8. _The Dance of the Intellect: Studies in the Poetry of the Pound Tradition_
by Marjorie Perloff, Northwestern,
$16.95. Back in print! Essays on Pound/Stevens, Pound/Cage, Pound/Joyce,
Oppen, Beckett, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, etc.
9. _Green and Black: Selected Writings_ by Leslie Scalapino, Talisman House,
$10.50. 100 page selected, last 25 pages recent work from "New Time" & the
title piece. "Writing in its simplest movements is the light elation. The
movements are only in that and induce themselves."
10. whaddya lookin' for?
Poetics folks receive free shipping on orders of more than $20. Free shipping
+ 10% discount on orders of more than $30. There are two ways to order.
1. E-mail your order to aerialedge@aol.com with your address & we will bill
you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200
or e-mail aerialedge@aol.com w/ yr add, order, card # & expiraton date, we
will send a
receipt with the books. We have to charge for shipping out of U.S.
Bridge Street Books, 2814 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Wahsington, DC 20007.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 05:21:06 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
George Bowering wrote (the bit beginning "I was wondering..."):
>
> >To Charles Bernstein---
> >
> >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I never
> >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so dumb,
> >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without talking to
> >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
>
> I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you mean to
> me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in Wyoming,
> N.Y.
Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
manual.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 09:25:06 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
In message <3215B932.1E04@concentric.net> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> George Bowering wrote (the bit beginning "I was wondering..."):
> >
> > >To Charles Bernstein---
> > >
> > >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I never
> > >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so dumb,
> > >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without talking
> > to
> > >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
> >
> > I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you mean to
> > me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in Wyoming,
> > N.Y.
>
> Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
> Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
> Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
> hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
> manual.
was that Pomo or po-mo?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 09:54:48 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <HLAZER@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: George Starbuck
George Starbuck died Thursday morning at his home in Tuscaloosa at
age 65 after a twenty year bout with Parkinson's disease. A fine
poet and generous person, George directed the graduate writing
programs in creative writing at Iowa (where, ages ago, he hired
Kathleen Fraser) and at Boston University. While at SUNY-Buffalo in
1963, he initiated a successful challenge of New York's Feinberg
loyalty-oath law. After a semester as writer-in-residence, George
decided to live in Tuscaloosa. For the past several years, he has
been a kind friend, much valued for his learning, his conversation,
and his advocacy of a wide range of poetries.
--Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 10:05:31 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: speed (long)
a little latecoming to this thread, but thought the following pertinent...
apologies if this duplicates a prior post...
best//joe
------------------
SPEED: AN ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF TECHNOLOGY, MEDIA AND SOCIETY
-----------------------------------
http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/~speed
***
_speed_@alishaw.ucsb.edu
-----------------------------------
Bulletin: June, 1996: Please Forward
***
1. SPEED 1.3: AIRPORTS AND MALLS HAS ARRIVED
2. CALL FOR PAPERS: SPECIAL ISSUE ON PAUL VIRILIO
3. CALL FOR PAPERS: FETISHISM: HOW CYBORGS FUCK?
4. ABOUT SPEED/ WHAT, WHO, HOW?
-----------------------------------
"Postmodern cyber criticism collides with cyber cool in this smart,
savvy, and, dare I say, hot looking journal of technology, media,
and society. The intention of _SPEED_ "is to contribute toward a
democratic discourse of technology and media, one that is always
focused upon the material conditions of life that technologies and
media constitute and demand, and yet does not lose sight of the
power of ideas to change those conditions." That is, wired culture
gets self-reflexive, and it's about time."
--from GNN, on-line Whole Internet Catalog
1. SPEED 1.3: AIRPORTS AND MALLS HAS ARRIVED
"The globe shrinks for those who own it; for the displaced or
dispossessed, the migrant or refugee, no distance is more awesome
than the few feet across borders or frontiers." -- Homi K. Bhabha.
"This version of the SPEED periodical/software concerns the
transformation of social space by information technologies, and the
value of dystopian mapping practices in accounting for the re-
locations of personalized politics that those transformations
demand....
"A sheer centralization of aesthetics signals an empowered domain
of inhabited information. Perhaps no social space serves to
exemplify this development more so than the airport. It stands for
the globalization of participant space under the sign of hegemonic
capital circulation, and of the standardization of capital and
circulation under the sign of information. The mechanical and
totemic work that it does in such service wishes to succeed at, and
complete, a utopian theater. But something is still messy. For Us,
the story that it, as a place, tells about itself and asks us to
play a part in, suffers a vanity of false resolution and improper
closure. Its utopian infantilization of our bodies which it
mediates does not finally succeed in convincing us that the global
system of temporized space it links is quite truly so seamless
and resolved. For most, this was never even a question. For all,
this is part of the rude claim made by the infomatic revolution
in the built environment....."
-- from "SUR-Urbia: An Introduction to Airports and Malls."
VERSION 1.3 "AIRPORTS AND MALLS" INCLUDES:
BENJAMIN BRATTON (U.C. SANTA BARBARA)
"SUR-Urbia: AN INTRODUCTION TO AIRPORTS AND MALLS"
JOHN THACKARA (NETHERLANDS DESIGN INSTITUTE)
"LOST IN SPACE - A TRAVELER'S TALE"
BOBBY RABYD (BROWN UNIVERSITY)
"AIRPORT NOVEL"
JUSTIN STINCHCOMBE (U.C. SANTA BARBARA)
"FLY AWAY LITTLE BIRDIE"
JEFF GATES (EYE to I)
"IN OUR PATH: ESSAYS"
JASON BROWN (U.C. SANTA BARBARA) AND GABRIEL WATSON (ECHO
IMAGES)"PROSTHESIS"
MARK BURCH (UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII)
"PLATEAUS OF CONSUMPTION: THE BIOSEMIOTICS OF CONSUMER
FASCISM"
CARINA YERVASI (UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN)
"PRE/SUB/URBAN SPRAWL: NINETEENTH-CENTURY PARISIAN PASSAGE AS
URBAN MALL"
JENNIFER SMITH (McMASTER UNIVERSITY)
"THE MALL IN MOTION: A NARRATIVE STROLL THROUGH THE OBSTACLE
COURSE"
"THE FLESH MADE IMAGE, LONG LIVE THE NEW IMAGE"
A CONVERSATION WITH JEFF HARRINGTON OF iDEAL oRDER/PSYCHIC TV
"BIOSPHERE 3: AUDIENCE WITH/OF THE MALL OF AMERICA"
A CONVERSATION WITH HERB SIMON OF SIMON AND ASSOCIATES
WITH ARTWORKS BY:
JEFF GATES (EYE to I)
"IN OUR PATH"
ROBERT NIDEFFER (U.C. SANTA BARBARA)
"TERMINAL CIRCLES"
JASON BROWN (U.C. SANTA BARBARA)
"MOVING PICTURES"
MICHELLE WAKIN (U.C. SANTA BARBARA)
"FOR YOUR SAFETY"
-----------------------------------
2. SPEED 1.4: SPECIAL ISSUE: ON PAUL VIRILIO
We are currently reviewing abstracts and proposals for articles for a
future transmission of _SPEED_ (WWW-specific projects encouraged) on
the critical significance of the work of Paul Virilio. In extremely
diverse arenas Virilio's cybernetic systems theory of the social has
arranged the horizons of wildly unlikely moments of questioning. As his
vision of interpretation/accusation crosses the spectrum of
disciplinary knowledges (while being at "home" in none), we now hear
literary critics speaking of the military origins of the city-state,
newscasters phrasing a "Nintendo War," historians of science commenting
on the phenomenology of electronic banking, architectural theorists
conceiving "the velocity" of airport space, and computer industry
professionals discussing the political history of the film projector.
Certainly these peculiar arrangements are not to be entirely credited
to (blamed on?) Virilio, but they do suggest that his vocabulary is
significant beyond the relatively narrow concerns of a "Virilio
Studies." We hope, therefore, to both interrogate and expand what it is
possible to make "Virilio" say.
-----------------------------------
3. SPEED 1.5: FETISHISM: HOW CYBORGS FUCK?
"Object Relations" becomes a difficult strategy for love in a
virtualizing world. Difficult, but still preferred. "Fetishism: How
Cyborgs Fuck?" will cut between the technologies of fetishism and the
fetishisms of technology -- from the techno-eroticism of B/D and S/M to
the B/D and S/M of postmodern advertising. Future Sex? Yes, thank you. As
long as we can keep our black patent-leather Newton PDA's! "That's a big
hard drive you've got there, General!" The issue is desire, or rather
desire transformed into technology's modes of enframing and poesis. The
moments that these actions are made for "devices" ("ooh, it's so smooth")
and not "technologies" ("we've got 98% efficiency, sir") become even more
to the point. This issue will include projects relating to, but not
exclusive to, Cyborg Studies, techno-psychoanalysis, transfeminism, S&M
Studies, CyberSex, the cinematics of just-in-time alienation, and all
other general economies of dissemination. WWW-based proposals are
particularly encouraged.
-----------------------------------
4. ABOUT SPEED
SPEED provides a forum for the critical investigation of
technology, media and society. Our intention is to contribute toward
a democratic discourse of technology and media, one that is always
focused upon the material conditions of life that technologies and
media constitute and demand, and yet does not lose sight of the
power of ideas to change those conditions. We feel that as media of
various kinds become more ubiquitous, what it means to live with
and talk about a "medium" changes and expands, and so do the
critical vocabularies of interpreting what those transformations
indicate. Our primary goal in that effort is to foster a cross-
fertilization of ideas between communities of people in the
"academy" and "industry" too often separated, not by interest or
common concern, but by artificially imposed disciplinary and
organizational boundaries. We think that _SPEED_ is a promising
step toward making these institutional boundaries more permeable,
and a critical politics of "mediated sociality" more powerful.
-----------------------------------
EDITORIAL BOARD FOR SPEED 1.3
Benjamin Bratton
Laura Grindstaff
Robert Nideffer
TECHNICAL IMPLEMENTATION
Interface Design:
Jason Brown
Robert Nideffer
Links and Links Text:
Benjamin Bratton
.GIF and .JPEG:
Jason Brown
Robert Nideffer
Adam Zaretsky
MIDI:
Ken Fields
.AIFF and .AU:
Ken Fields
Nathan Freitas
Robert Nideffer
JAVA and VRML Scripting:
Nathan Freitas
Terminal Modeling:
Rand Eppich
-----------------------------------
** TO SUBSCRIBE TO _SPEED_, send e-mail to _SPEED_@alishaw.ucsb.edu with
"subscribe" in the subject header. In addition to receiving all future
issues, you will be kept up to date on developments regarding the journal.
----------===============----------
HOW TO CONTACT _SPEED_
e-mail:
Please send all submissions, criticisms, praise, suggestions, or
anything else you have on your mind to: _SPEED_@alishaw.ucsb.edu.
snail-mail:
If for whatever reason you need to communicate with us via the U.S.
Postal Service, please send your correspondence to:
_SPEED_
c/o Robert Nideffer
Department of Art Studio
University of California, Santa Barbara
Santa Barbara, CA. 93106
----------===============----------
ISSN 1078-196X
----------------------
Benjamin Bratton
Department of Sociology
University of California, Santa Barbara
6500benb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
SPEED: An Electronic Journal of Technology, Media and Society
http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/~speed
speed@sscf.ucsb.edu
----------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 10:51:28 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: George Starbuck
thanks for the news hank. 65 is much younger than i would have placed him...
md
In message <9F0F8271DE7@as.ua.edu> UB Poetics discussion group writes:
> George Starbuck died Thursday morning at his home in Tuscaloosa at
> age 65 after a twenty year bout with Parkinson's disease. A fine
> poet and generous person, George directed the graduate writing
> programs in creative writing at Iowa (where, ages ago, he hired
> Kathleen Fraser) and at Boston University. While at SUNY-Buffalo in
> 1963, he initiated a successful challenge of New York's Feinberg
> loyalty-oath law. After a semester as writer-in-residence, George
> decided to live in Tuscaloosa. For the past several years, he has
> been a kind friend, much valued for his learning, his conversation,
> and his advocacy of a wide range of poetries.
>
> --Hank Lazer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 09:35:11 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
Subject: National Poetry Slam
The National Poetry Slam! unbelievable
Will be held Aug 20-25 in PoLand, OR -- check out amazingly full sked at:
http://www.teleport.com/~bigmouth/
Bob Holman will be booksignreading with Marc Smith at Powell's Books on
Tues., Aug 20, 7:30.
All five parts of THE UNITED STATES OF POETRY will be screened at
McMennimin's Brew Pub Cinema beginning at 9:30 on Tues., Aug 20.
On Wed, Aug 21, apres Slam (11 ish), the rich and dense PRINT (16mm) of USOP
Show 5 (Eigner, Creeley, Harryman, Depp, Franti et al) will be screened,
again at MacMinnamon's.
27 Slam vennues will be represented...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 09:37:53 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
Subject: National Poetry Slam -- AOL CyberSlam
Celebrating the opening of the National Poetry Slam, USAWeekend will present
a CyberSlam ...
Get a jump on the Nationals! Taste the bitter fruit of CyberSlam on :
Monday, Aug. 19, midnight, ET.
Tonguethrust Gladiators (sorry, text only) include: Beth Lisick (independent
from Oakland), Mychele (Phoenix) Alexandra Oliver (Vancouver), Beau Sia
(NYC), Ngoma (CT), and Jeff Meyers (ringer from PoLand).
Judge from the comfort of yr Barcalonger. I think it's a choice of 3: Thumbs
UP, Thums DOWN, All (or No) Thumbs (sideways).
From AOL, Go To Keyword USAWeekend
The Countdown to the Countdown's Being Counted Down!
Babalu Holmanski
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 13:04:33 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglis Beck <DlisRicBck@AOL.COM>
Subject: textual graphicalities
as to problems with the azi text, & yes I'm with ya there; technical
difficulties yes, but an interesting (though quite unreadable) graphic/text
of sorts. look for it as a cover to something or other coming soon from
StL,MO. get back to ya on that one.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 14:24:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglis Beck <DlisRicBck@AOL.COM>
Subject: poetry & speed; poetry on speed; & a 180 turn around for love
I don't think anyone has mentioned Alice Notley's texts with regards to
poetry/speed/slowness.
"it seems that" "their composition" "as compilations of" "quotes" "from
various" "though unknown" "sources are both" "interesting & resistent" "to
speed" "reading"
-& writing, I might add. typing all those quote marks takes
TIME. reading them does as well, which is my point.
poetry ON speed seems more fun. now, I'm not necessarily talking about
narcotics, certainly a possibility (& reality I'm sure), but other options
could be writing while driving, writing really fast, writing while driving
really fast, or reading/performing really fast. these would not be cultural
products of our hyper-whatever (hypertext?-writing that can be transmitted
very fast) society that demands instant access &c, but conscious decisions of
an inherent speed of some things, while there is a slowness to others. to
make the anology with colors: I can't imagine a slow red or yellow, nor a
fast brown. interestingly blue seems to swing both ways. (cf: bill gass "on
being blue")
as for the other: stand up & turn around. thanks deb.
see ya.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:05:34 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: JOEL LEWIS <104047.2175@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Williams house to be sold
Does anyone know what is happenong (or has happened) to the art collection the
WCW home? There are Hartleys, Demuths, Sheelers, etc. There was apparently a
dispute between the two WCW sons as what to do w/ them. Wm. Eric Willaims, who
lived there, did not want to sell them, claiming they were part of his house.
Brother Paul, thought they should be put on the market. Any fan of WCW should go
to Rutherford at least once (easy from NYC,#190 NJT bus) & just walk around
Joel Lewis
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 19:17:04 -0900
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Benedetti <dbenedet@UNM.EDU>
Subject: National Poetry Slam
I realize this is probably an old issue, but having tried to go to a few
"poetry slams", I find it is like watching wrestling on TV, and has very
little to do with poetry and a lot to do with the lowest common
denominator of audience entertainment/jacking off. Does anyone else
feel this competitive/entertainment trend in poetry readings (in an
effort toward popularity) is the wrong direction to move in...?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 19:26:50 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam - David Benedetti
Comments: cc: David Benedetti <dbenedet@UNM.EDU>
David,
Wow, what a treat to see your name.
A few years ago I saw you in front of E.J.'s and told you that I liked a
poem of yours that I had seen in some mag somewhere and you were kind
enough to give me a copy of your book "defense mechanism".
That night a friend of mine, whom I had been friends with for years, came
over to my place on Silver (or was it Lead?) and we sat around and smoked
and drank and read aloud your poems. Actually I read them aloud and he
listened. He was someone who had never ever expressed any interest in
poetry before the whole time I had known him. He was quite taken by your
work, most particularly the poem 'REPRODUCTIVE SUCCESS'. After reading
your book he expressed an interest for the first time in reading some of my
writing. Something he had never ever done before.
So I wanted to express my gratitude once again for your kindness.
As for slams I think it is important to realize that while there is a
certain amount of truth to what you say it is not the whole truth. I have
on a few occasions been to slams where the winner is none other than the
best writer there. The vast majority of the time the winner is the best
performer and sometimes the winner is someone who is equally good at both
writing and performing but sometimes, rarely, the writer wins out.
Rather than say the "wrong direction to move in" maybe it would be more
appropriate to say it is "another direction to move in".
Mayakovsky, while a still great writer, made his name when he started
because he was handsome and dashing and one hell of a performer, not to
mention a shrewd politician (which in my experience has a whole hell of
alot more to do with winning modern day slams than either writing skill or
performing ability). And while some of the dadaists did some great things
outside of performance value it nevertheless played a vital role in their
work as well as in the "Theatre of Cruelty". Also I believe Joy in your
department has expressed, in David's book last year, the sentiment that her
work with "Poetic Justice" is another form of her poetry, albeit with a
groove. Perhaps slams are simply another media. I don't know.
And actually in my experience slams and the spoken word movement has not
occured because of a desire towards popularity (certainly that plays a
role) so much as a desire to read and be heard in spite of being shut out
of the "academy" (refer back to politics).
There's actually a guy in Austin named Whammo who approaches his readings
like they were a wrestling match and he even looks like a wrestler and some
of his poems are some of the most interesting political word play skewers I
have ever heard.
filch
>I realize this is probably an old issue, but having tried to go to a few
>"poetry slams", I find it is like watching wrestling on TV, and has very
>little to do with poetry and a lot to do with the lowest common
>denominator of audience entertainment/jacking off. Does anyone else
>feel this competitive/entertainment trend in poetry readings (in an
>effort toward popularity) is the wrong direction to move in...?
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:47:04 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: slamming, competition, entertainment, politics
Re: slamming, competition,entertainment,politics
Float like a butterfly,
Sting like a bee
The Greatest slammer
Is Muhammad Ali
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 22:33:18 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
benedetti writes:
> I realize this is probably an old issue, but having tried to go to a few
> "poetry slams", I find it is like watching wrestling on TV, and has very
> little to do with poetry and a lot to do with the lowest common
> denominator of audience entertainment/jacking off. Does anyone else
> feel this competitive/entertainment trend in poetry readings (in an
> effort toward popularity) is the wrong direction to move in...?
in connection w/ a piece on slams i'm reading an essay by musicologist simon
frith called "the good, the bad, and the indifferent: defending popular culture
from the populists." i'm struggling w/ the issue of "evaluation." frith argues
something that seems obvious once it's said, but still sounds novel when i read
it; that everyone is making aesthetic judgments, but the criteria differ from
person to person, class to class, venue to venue. he thinks that students and
scholars of pop and mass culture who disavow any need for acknowledgeing the
aesthetic are being disingenuous. i haven't finished the article yet
(diacritics 1991) but it's easy to read and pretty smart. talking to this
crowd, it might be old news, since POETIX seems by + large pretty invested in
aesthetic judgment, but for me it's useful. so, slams are aesthetic events that
involve judgment (that's the whole format --ranking, judging, etc), but the
aesthetic criteria might differ overlappingly with/from other poetry contexts.
someone was telling me today about a kaja silverman book he was reading that
discussed a fassbinder movie in which a masochist has just had a sex change
operation to please his sadist/lover; his lover is humiliating him in front of
the mirror, taunting him/her about his/her new face and body and says, "what do
you see when you look in the mirror?" the masochist responds, "I see myself
loving you." silverman apparently cites this as an example of the egolessness
of the masochist who can only see his/her existence in relation to the other (or
something like that); to me, it was a moment characterized by its sheer
POETICITY.
i know there's a connection between the two preceding paragraphs but i'm too
tired to articulately theorize it. something about context, reception,
understanding of what "poetry" is, and a corresponding aesthetic judgment. kinda
like seeing that 10yrold girl read that poem to her father at his funeral that i
wrote about here a few months ago.
xo, md
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 20:42:23 -0700
Reply-To: { brad brace } <bbrace@netcom.com>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: { brad brace } <bbrace@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: fresh theoretical interpretations
Comments: To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com
In-Reply-To: <199608161516.LAA03649@monticello.path.med.umich.edu>
Interactive Technology suddenly begins to require governing
bureaucracies to be accountable to more than special-interest lobbies.
Other essential cultures will take longer to free themselves from
similarily imposed sanctions; keeping the channels of disbelief open will
only assist the maturation process. This is even apparent in the
academe-art-world where it is no longer possible to retract and posture
behind hallowed 'accredited' texts and papers. The usual claims of
singular intellectual and historically verifiable dominance in lieu of
anything-else, -- which can only be, after-all, facile emotional,
untested, unverifiable,... tripe!
The World is now subsuming this haughty one-track regime; all
approaches are now equally valid. The bureaucratic 'art-speak' of the
old-world still indignantly bristles at the mention of any challenge. A
fresh critical language/practise has only begun to break from the ossified
jargon of the hierarchical/insipid academy. Already, the patentedly absurd
notion of 'art-movements and schools' is being parodied on IRC -- witness,
the Fluxus-Channel, in which participants deliver-up the
pseudo-intellectual posturings of yester-year, and thereby inadvertently
prompt the Fluxus-Artist-Bot to chime-in with its 'personal' anecdotes of
that pseudo-period. This mawkish humor is sure to spawn other similarly
'specialized' channels.
Meanwhile, the remaining art-experts continue to parry, thrust and
quibble over verifiable historical details and 'textual evidence' that
either supports or dismisses their esteemed positions. But, who knows,
some of these players may still be real, and thereby motivated to cling to
the vestiges of this morbid, cloying ritual. Perhaps this is the sadistic
appeal of these 'period-channels'-- that suddenly, the predatory, selfish,
stagnant, internal mechanizations of the art-academy are laid-bare --
their crusty orifices now swollened shut...
Which leads me to mention a current project of mine... (I
introduce it now in part because of an inherent elegance which exceeds a
cohesion of facts;) which is not to imply that art is yet possible-- real
practise must still 'span the current cultural spasm.' It's still not
clear whether art-presented through the Net escapes this stultifying
condition elsewhere-- that is to say, that art-now can be seen, but
then-instantly vanishes within the larger culture without reverberation or
consequence. Anyway-- I've finally 'realized' some ideas that I initiated
ten-years-ago; I've also found a probable-use for digital-art-image
filters. The work consists of a set of collected imagery through various
quirky industrial machineries which I've 'stylistically-generalized' with
Art-Effects Filters. Once on-screen they look especially appealing and
uneasily nostalgic from across the room. I think this imagery would be
well-suited to body-tattoos (blue-black as in the illustrations). Let me
know if you have one done! <<http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
or /tattoo.html>>
__
p.s.. for those who care: I've recently moved to San Francisco in order to
work a stint as the 'Prepress Specialist' for 'Wired Magazine.' They seem
to be demanding more of a political voice of late... which is interesting.
The disparity in The City itself is depressing but this takes us right
back to the beginning of this missive...
--
{ brad brace } <<<< bbrace@netcom.com >>>> ~finger for pgp
The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace
continuous hypermodern ftp.teleport.com/users/bbrace
photo-art ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace
--
Usenet-news: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr/ a.b.p.fine-art.misc
Mailing-list: listserv@netcom.com / subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg
Reverse Solidus: http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 00:21:37 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
Comments: To: David Benedetti <dbenedet@UNM.EDU>
On 17 Aug 96 at 19:17, David Benedetti wrote:
> I realize this is probably an old issue, but having tried to go to a few
> "poetry slams", I find it is like watching wrestling on TV, and has very
> little to do with poetry and a lot to do with the lowest common
> denominator of audience entertainment/jacking off. Does anyone else
> feel this competitive/entertainment trend in poetry readings (in an
> effort toward popularity) is the wrong direction to move in...?
I'm growing to enjoy the slams more and more as time goes on. I
started out opposed to them, but have sort of come around. Last
night, my ensemble performed as the feature at the Dallas slam, and I
was one of the judges.
The poetry has a wider range than I might expect -- there's seeming
to be less in-your-face assault of late and more personal material.
As necessitated by the rules, the best of the performances are very
focused, some toward audience assault, and some much quieter
material. In fact, the older-style assault poetry is getting lower
scores of late, and everyone seems to be getting tired of the endless
array of Maggie Estep clones. This is leading to a wider range.
For a while, I hosted a quite popular poetry event that was pretty much the
anthithesis of the slams, and got much of its attendance from people
who, having started at the slams, were interested in moving into
other areas. (That it fell apart was due not to the material, but to
personality conflicts among the hosts.)
I think its very good that some poetry is moving toward audience
entertainment. Fortunately, it's not the only direction that it's
leading, and it's opening doors to other possibilities. Our
ensemble's work is perhaps closest to the work of the Four Horsemen
than to anything else we've run across, and probably would not win a
slam, but much of our audience has come from the people who were
first turned on to verbal performance by attending slams.
There's nothing at all wrong with being popular or entertaining. And,
at least around here, it's doing more to help encourage other
poetries than it is hindering them.
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 00:35:28 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam - David Benedetti
Comments: To: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
On 17 Aug 96 at 19:26, filch wrote:
> There's actually a guy in Austin named Whammo who approaches his readings
> like they were a wrestling match and he even looks like a wrestler and some
> of his poems are some of the most interesting political word play skewers I
> have ever heard.
Yeah! Wammo's dynamite (though he's looking much less like a wrestler
nowadays); he won a slam here in Dallas last week, and is heading off
to Portland with the Austin team. I've worked with him some, and he's
very clear about what he's doing and how he's doing it. One of the
best performers around. (I saw him opening for Lydia Lunch at South
By Southwest a few months back. He was captivating (while Lunch was
dull enough, going for the easy shots without much performance in it,
that we left soon into her set.))
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 01:41:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Anselm Hollo <JDHollo@AOL.COM>
Subject: George Starbuck
17 Aug 96
To: POETICS list
From: Anselm Hollo
Emerging from my lair here, to salute the memory of George Starbuck, first
met in Buffalo thirty years ago, during my first summer there in the company
of G.S., Ann London, Robert Creeley, John Logan, John Wieners, Robert Hogg,
Basil Bunting, George Bowering, Jack Clarke, Al Glover, Duncan McNaughton...a
summer that definitely changed my life, as did George's subsequent invitation
to come and teach at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, whose director he then was.
Cet ouvroir was a very different place during his tenure than what it had
been before, and, I believe, what it has been since. Not only did he invite
Kathleen Fraser and her then husband Jack Marshall, he also invited Ted
Berrigan, Steve Katz, Seymour Krim, David Ray--all, at that time, regarded as
pretty 'cutting edge' makaris, somewhat threatening, even, to the post-Paul
Engle neo-Frostian/pseudo-WCWilliamsian 'Iowa' establishment.
George was a wit, an ironic master of traditional Anglo form, and a gentleman
of a wide and utterly non-provincial understanding of the art. I believe
that he, Ted Berrigan, and your humble servant deserve credit in Poetry
Heaven for our work in that place and time (Ted was politicked out of there
after only one year, by the above mentioned establishmentarians; I outlasted
George by a couple of years, thanks to painter Hans Breder of the art
department who fixed me up with an 'interdisciplinary' gig for a couple more
years): the roll call of 'our' (and, yes, Kathleen's & Jack's & Seymour's &
Steve's) students looks pretty impressive today: Alice Notley, Robert
Grenier, Ray DiPalma, Merrill Gilfillan, Michael Lally, Darrell Gray, Barrett
Watten, Bob Perelman, Arthur Vogelsang. (None of them, of course, quite as
famous in the Old Iowa Lineage as, say, Norman Dubie or Michael Ryan.)
So--Thank You, Captain George.
Anselm Hollo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 13:27:32 +0200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "William M. Northcutt" <William.Northcutt@UNI-BAYREUTH.DE>
Subject: identify the poem--please.
I can't get these lines out of my head, something like:
My mother said, to admit that your bored means you have no natural
resourses; I admit
I have no natural resourses.
I can't remember where I read them. Help?
William Northcutt
-------------------------------------------------------
Walter Benjamin: "Only a redeemed mankind receives the fullness of its past."
-------------------------------------------------------
William Northcutt
Anglistik I
Universitaet Bayreuth
95440 Bayreuth
email: william.northcutt@uni-bayreuth.de
Tel: 49 921 980612
Fax: 49 921 553641
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 01:52:48 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <sschultz@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tinfish Net\work
In-Reply-To: <9608181127.AA26923@btr0x1.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de>
_Ola_, a new chapbook from Joe Balaz, has just been published by
Tinfish Net/work. Balaz's poems treat contemporary issues of language,
culture, class, as well as the Hawaiian sovereignty movement in Hawai'i.
"Ola" means "life" in Hawaiian. Balaz is a frequent contributor to
_Tinfish_ and the editor of _Ho'omanoa: An Anthology of Contemporary
Hawaiian Literature_, which is unfortunately out of print.
Chapbooks are $4, or $3 with a three issue subscription to the
journal ($13).
Until August 21st, you may order copies from me at the above email
address. After that date, while I'll check that address from time to
time, the safest way to get me will be at sschu30844@aol.com.
______________________________________________
Susan M. Schultz
Dept. of English
1733 Donaghho Road
University of Hawai'i-Manoa
Honolulu, HI 96822
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 09:47:55 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Andrew D Epstein <ade3@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: identify the poem--please.
In-Reply-To: <9608181127.AA26923@btr0x1.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de>
On Sun, 18 Aug 1996, William M. Northcutt wrote:
> I can't get these lines out of my head, something like:
>
> My mother said, to admit that your bored means you have no natural
> resourses; I admit
> I have no natural resourses.
>
> I can't remember where I read them. Help?
>
> William Northcutt
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Walter Benjamin: "Only a redeemed mankind receives the fullness of its past."
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> William Northcutt
> Anglistik I
> Universitaet Bayreuth
> 95440 Bayreuth
> email: william.northcutt@uni-bayreuth.de
> Tel: 49 921 980612
> Fax: 49 921 553641
>
The lines are from John Berryman's Dream Song 14:
"my mother told me as a boy
(repeatingly) 'Ever to confess you're bored
means you have no
Inner Resources.' I conclude now I have no
inner resources, because I am heavy bored."
Andrew Epstein
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 09:26:17 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
Comments: To: jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM
in response to the longish pro-slam post below from jzitt, when a discussion of
open mike readings (and by extension slams) came up about a year ago on the
list, there was much less acceeptance of "entertainment" forms of poetry than
there is this time around. i like this shift, esp when narrated as below, from
someone who has given slams a chance and sees their value and also,
significantly, points out that they change over time; like any poetry, they're
not static. interesting discussion, y'all; thanks! md
In message <199608180524.AAA22965@zoom.bga.com> writes:
> On 17 Aug 96 at 19:17, David Benedetti wrote:
>
> > I realize this is probably an old issue, but having tried to go to a few
> > "poetry slams", I find it is like watching wrestling on TV, and has very
> > little to do with poetry and a lot to do with the lowest common
> > denominator of audience entertainment/jacking off. Does anyone else
> > feel this competitive/entertainment trend in poetry readings (in an
> > effort toward popularity) is the wrong direction to move in...?
>
> I'm growing to enjoy the slams more and more as time goes on. I
> started out opposed to them, but have sort of come around. Last
> night, my ensemble performed as the feature at the Dallas slam, and I
> was one of the judges.
>
> The poetry has a wider range than I might expect -- there's seeming
> to be less in-your-face assault of late and more personal material.
> As necessitated by the rules, the best of the performances are very
> focused, some toward audience assault, and some much quieter
> material. In fact, the older-style assault poetry is getting lower
> scores of late, and everyone seems to be getting tired of the endless
> array of Maggie Estep clones. This is leading to a wider range.
>
> For a while, I hosted a quite popular poetry event that was pretty much the
> anthithesis of the slams, and got much of its attendance from people
> who, having started at the slams, were interested in moving into
> other areas. (That it fell apart was due not to the material, but to
> personality conflicts among the hosts.)
>
> I think its very good that some poetry is moving toward audience
> entertainment. Fortunately, it's not the only direction that it's
> leading, and it's opening doors to other possibilities. Our
> ensemble's work is perhaps closest to the work of the Four Horsemen
> than to anything else we've run across, and probably would not win a
> slam, but much of our audience has come from the people who were
> first turned on to verbal performance by attending slams.
>
> There's nothing at all wrong with being popular or entertaining. And,
> at least around here, it's doing more to help encourage other
> poetries than it is hindering them.
> ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
> |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
> ||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
> |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 11:47:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
hey maria, hi!... happy to complicate things!... nothing wrong with
entertainment, hell no, but---
after sitting through most of the republican convention, and esp. elizabeth
dole's generally acclaimed oprah-"performance," i guess what i'd like to
ask is how, from a broadly cultural perspective, one might go about
aligning questions of public literacy with the recent success of oral
performance venues like slams (for that matter, i could ask a similar
question having to do with print or electronic poetry publication, or with
the production of literature generally---but the answers would no doubt be
somewhat different)...
that is, i'm asking (and mebbe i'm just being my contentious self here) how
we may gauge art-as-entertainment or art-as-performance not only in terms
of aesthetics, albeit this is valuable too, but in terms of its cultural
quotient---whether spoken word or workshop or what have you---and wrt the
macro-mainstreams of u.s. public life... which latter i understand, anyway,
as having gone much further Right politically while, for example,
performance venues would seem to have increased in popularity (which is
certainly not to suggest a causal relation...)...
i fully accept and appreciate the value of resistance in specific
communities, specific poetry publics... on the other hand, i guess i feel
as though this resistance has itself been progressively (or regressively)
displaced in much of our public domain... which has (only apparently?)
defused the political quotient of the literary, regardless how
performative... so it may be a matter of asking how something so vital in
one context can co-exist with a public (televised) 'arena' that mercilessly
utilizes the performative to its own ends...
anyway, this is an all-too-hasty post, but i wonder if there isn't some
benefit to speculating less about poetry-as-state-of-the-art and more about
poetry-as- state-of-the-union, esp. in an election year?...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 10:40:57 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: SPT Archive
This is Dodie Bellamy.
As many of you already know, Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center in
San Francisco has ceased being a bookstore and has been reborn as a
literary resource center. In our office at New College we are creating a
non-lending library of small press books, available to everyone. There is
a lounge area next door to our office where people can lounge and read
books.
Small Press Traffic's interns have been busily unpacking and arranging our
archive, and we have room for plenty more books. A few local poets are
donating duplicates from their personal libraries to the archive, and some
presses are sending review copies to be placed in the archive. We will
have some kind of opening celebration late fall/early winter.
Anyway, this is a call for donations to the Small Press Traffic Archive.
Small Press publishers/writers, please send us one or two couple copies of
your publications for our archives. Archive lisitings will eventually be
posted at the SPT page at the Electronic Poetry Center. We will also,
beginning with the next issue of our newsletter, list recent acquisitions
to the archive.
The next issue of the Small Press Traffic newsletter will be out in a
couple of weeks. This issue features reviews of books published by Hard
Press, O-Books, and Kelsey St. In future issues our review section will be
opened up to everybody. If you have a book you would like considered for
review, please send it to me.
Small Press Traffic
at New College
766 Valencia St.
San Francisco, CA 94110
415/437-3454
The newsletter will be published at the EPC. But anyone not living in the
Bay Area who would like the next three issues mailed to them, please send
$10 to the above address for a subscription. The newsletter is available
in the Bay Area only to members of Small Press Traffic ($35 minimum/full,
$25/student).
Thanks for all the support so many of you have given Small Press Traffic.
Dodie
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 13:49:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ian Wilson <IBar88@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
In a message dated 96-08-17 21:23:27 EDT, David Benedetti writes:
<< I realize this is probably an old issue, but having tried to go to a few
"poetry slams", I find it is like watching wrestling on TV, and has very
little to do with poetry and a lot to do with the lowest common
denominator of audience entertainment/jacking off. Does anyone else
feel this competitive/entertainment trend in poetry readings (in an
effort toward popularity) is the wrong direction to move in...? >>
Amen.
Ian Wilson
Loyola Marymount University
ibar88@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/ibar88/private/ian1.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 14:15:22 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
hiya joe. i do think that there is room for skepticism about the relationship
between the rise of the right and valuation of public poetries and other
representations of "diversity." i think this is not the fault of the
diversifiers (though one could make a case for their complicity, but why bother)
but an instance of what walter benjamin speaks of as a proto-fascistic state in
which freedom of expression is allowed minus freedom of social and economic
opportunies, equal access to justice and resources, etc.--basically,
"aestheticizing politics" instead of the converse. with regard to the
spectacularization of oratory that mobilizes folks, we have the examples of both
hitler and martin luther king jr. who had very diff agendas. and again, i don't
think it's the oratory itself that does the political work.
md
In message <199608181647.LAA03097@charlie.cns.iit.edu> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> hey maria, hi!... happy to complicate things!... nothing wrong with
> entertainment, hell no, but---
>
> after sitting through most of the republican convention, and esp. elizabeth
> dole's generally acclaimed oprah-"performance," i guess what i'd like to
> ask is how, from a broadly cultural perspective, one might go about
> aligning questions of public literacy with the recent success of oral
> performance venues like slams (for that matter, i could ask a similar
> question having to do with print or electronic poetry publication, or with
> the production of literature generally---but the answers would no doubt be
> somewhat different)...
>
> that is, i'm asking (and mebbe i'm just being my contentious self here) how
> we may gauge art-as-entertainment or art-as-performance not only in terms
> of aesthetics, albeit this is valuable too, but in terms of its cultural
> quotient---whether spoken word or workshop or what have you---and wrt the
> macro-mainstreams of u.s. public life... which latter i understand, anyway,
> as having gone much further Right politically while, for example,
> performance venues would seem to have increased in popularity (which is
> certainly not to suggest a causal relation...)...
>
> i fully accept and appreciate the value of resistance in specific
> communities, specific poetry publics... on the other hand, i guess i feel
> as though this resistance has itself been progressively (or regressively)
> displaced in much of our public domain... which has (only apparently?)
> defused the political quotient of the literary, regardless how
> performative... so it may be a matter of asking how something so vital in
> one context can co-exist with a public (televised) 'arena' that mercilessly
> utilizes the performative to its own ends...
>
> anyway, this is an all-too-hasty post, but i wonder if there isn't some
> benefit to speculating less about poetry-as-state-of-the-art and more about
> poetry-as- state-of-the-union, esp. in an election year?...
>
> best,
>
> joe
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 14:17:13 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
ps to last response to joe: just want to clarify that there's room for
skepticism yes, but not cuz the slammers etc are dupes or pawns of the right;
simply that one could question their political effectiveness. but one could
question just about anyone's political effectiveness.
xo,md
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 17:36:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Eliza McGrand- CVA Guest <elliza@AI.MIT.EDU>
Subject: slammin' and jammin'
it is hard; i started out wanting to like slams. went to a few determined
to enjoy (in one of "you must stop writing in a cave" phases) and expected --
dangerous i know -- to find the latest poetic currents.
blechhhhhhh!!!!!
i will not bore eveyone by relating entire blow-by-blow encounters,
but let me say that slams bring to my mind the leather
motorcycle-jacketed, snotty, clumping (boots and dragged, slogging
stride), large, drunken man who brought a couple of tables full of
loud friends. when he stood up to read an abominably rhymed, cliched,
'borrowed' without attribution to the point of plagarism, uh,
'offering' which, as he bragged and as was painfully apparent, was
written the night before, literally, on a cocktail napkin in a bar
while he was drunk, his friends loudly applauded and whistled. they
were silent _during_ the performance. this was more of a courtesy
than they offered the rest of the readers. i read a sonnet afterwards
and he gave me a dirty look, refused to applaud (though that was much
like his response, sans dirty looks, to the rest of the readers). at
the end of the evening, he lumbered over to me, tried in a
non-endearingly clumsy way to pick me up, then threatened a male,
black friend who had accompanied me. my friend and i whiled away a
couple of beers later trying to parse whether the threat originated
because he was black and i was white, because i read a sonnet that i
hadn't had to 'borrow' to write, or because even though the lumberer
and his crowd sulked, i still got a reasonable amount of applause...
certainly this was the extreme end of things. but, how to describe
this, ALL my slams were full of wierd extremes (there was the fine
writer, a woman, white, who read a complex, beautiful poem in a soft
voice and got almost no applause in the face of what was probably the
most original, strong work of the evening... or the man, in costume,
who read badly rhymed poems to animals whilst acting the various
animals out (i am NOT making this up -- he paused for 2 minute
pantomime sessions. this is responsible for at least six of my gray
hairs). now, this was about 8 years ago, and things may (we can only
hope) have changed since.... and i WAS at in a phase where everything
seemed to end up in a sort of derida-ian carnival.
but, appropos "speed" and slams and performance, i've found the best reading
poems are long lists of images done in a slow voice to warm people up, then
fairly conversational works. and the more dense the work, the more slowly
i need to read it to keep the audience from getting that glazed, suffering
look in their eyes. i know i have the same needs as an audience... on the
other hand, i'm not near as fond of conversational poems on the page as
i am of more dense work.
e
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 06:00:46 +0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: Re: identify the poem--please.
In-Reply-To: <9608181127.AA26923@btr0x1.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de>
lines are from John Berryman, somewhere in the Dream Songs I believe.
On Sun, 18 Aug 1996, William M. Northcutt wrote:
> I can't get these lines out of my head, something like:
>
> My mother said, to admit that your bored means you have no natural
> resourses; I admit
> I have no natural resourses.
>
> I can't remember where I read them. Help?
>
> William Northcutt
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Walter Benjamin: "Only a redeemed mankind receives the fullness of its past."
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> William Northcutt
> Anglistik I
> Universitaet Bayreuth
> 95440 Bayreuth
> email: william.northcutt@uni-bayreuth.de
> Tel: 49 921 980612
> Fax: 49 921 553641
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 15:24:47 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: SPT Archive, part 2
This is Dodie again. For the SPT archive we'd also welcome donations of
critical books on small press type writers (meaning all of poetry).
Thanks.
Went to the new SF Public library this afternoon. What a monster.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 19:12:45 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: slammin' and jammin'
eliza, sounds like u had a horrible slam experience. my sister, who writes very
formal light verse, read at a slam; she read her parody of the charge of the
light (lite?) brigade, which is about making chocolate chip cookies; i feared
the worst, in terms of her reception, but she says she scored pretty high (tho'
the poem was longer than 3 minutes) and got nice applause, this was in
boston/cambridge (kresge aud i think). this was just a few months ago, so maybe
things have changed, or maybe, at an auditorium there's less potential than at a
bar for things to get weird...? or maybe she didn't tell me about the drunken
louts that insulted her...?
md
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 20:52:15 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@CHASS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: the wheelbarrow
For the third time in as many years, I had a student this summer
respond to _Spring and All_ with an off the wall anlysis of the
wheelbarrow poem that invoked the Cold War, white armies, red armies,
(red wheelbarrow, white chickens--get it?) etc etc. All these students
had been taught this analysis in high school. Anybody else out there
ever hear this? Or have any idea where it comes from? I suspect an
issue of _The Explicator_ must be responsible and I thought perhaps
somebody might have encountered it.
Mike
mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 19:18:43 MDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Louis Cabri <ldmcabri@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: hole 6
In-Reply-To: <199608182136.RAA13509@toast.ai.mit.edu>; from "Eliza McGrand-
CVA Guest" at Aug 18, 1996 5:36 pm
hole 6 is available & features poetics/reviews:
The Device - Lisa Robertson
Loose Change - Fred Wah
Mob - Abigail Child / Susan Holbrook
Dwell - Jeff Derksen / Clint Burnham
The Boy Poems - Rod Smith / Mike Magoolaghan
Mop Mop Georgette - Denise Riley; In the House of the Shaman -
Maggie O'Sullivan / Nathaniel Dorward
"hole 1-4." from Linear A - Johan de Wit
Cover art - Germaine Koh
slim & trim. $5. (or $9/2 issues)
New addresses for eds.:
Rob Manery, L03-2556 E. Hastings, Vancouver, BC, V5K 1Z3,
Canada.
Louis Cabri, c/o 8127 Cedar Rd., Montgomery County, Philadelphia,
PA, 19027, USA.
New emails forthcoming.
Best, Louis
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:35:05 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Aug 1996 to 14 Aug 1996
Gale, go on being eccentric, please, if you will. What is a centric reader?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 00:37:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
Subject: National Poetry Slam
Yo Filch et al--
FYI, Mouth Almighty Records is releasing a WAMMO (that's the way he spells
it) album in Oct... called "The Fat-Headed Stranger" it mixes blues, grunge,
rock and uh spoken word. Even a lil ol Laurie Anderson satire. Backchannel me
a snail and I'll ship you off a copy....
Wammo himself finished second in the individuals in last year's Nationals --
Austin looks very tough this year, w/ the WamMan as (self-annointed) Captain.
Maria, I read some of the Frith piece in the Voice where he has (had?) a
column. The analogy many Slamsters use is of the editor who divides the
poetry mss into Yes No Maybe Never OK Possible-plus vs. the Judges at
Slams....
as for e's experiences ("but, how to describe
this, ALL my slams were full of wierd extremes ) I say amen. This is one
reason I go to Slams. To hear new unfettered is another. To be able to say to
the poet who has talentbut got a low score that you liked the poem is also
part of it. The best poet always loses is the only rule in Slam.
Slams, seems to me, function best as a way in to poetry. You hear some poems
you like, some you don't, you agree with judges, or you don't, it seems
anyone can do it, maybe you'll try, etc. One of the greatest things about
Slam is the work of the poets who've used the form and graduated, like Paul
Beatty, Willie Perdomo, Dael Orlandersmith, among others....
Bob H
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:18:42 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
>> >To Charles Bernstein---
>> >
>> >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I never
>> >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so dumb,
>> >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without
>>talking to
>> >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
>>
>> I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you mean to
>> me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in Wyoming,
>> N.Y.
>
>Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
>Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
>Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
>hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
>manual.
Charles, how could you!? You told me she was just an intelligent person you
had befriended for her quick mind! I am sending your jewelry back.
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:33:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: George Starbuck
Gad, about 1957 in Oliver, B.C., I was picking up drugstore poetry
anthologies, and didnt know any names later than WCWilliams, and there was
George Starbuck, so I was reading him before I read any of you people, and
I am glad that I did. Odd, eh? If he was really 65 at his death, he was
pretty young in 1957!
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:33:39 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: identify the poem--please.
>I can't get these lines out of my head, something like:
>
>My mother said, to admit that your bored means
[?]
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 03:42:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <SSchu30844@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: new addresses
This is just to say that my address from September through early December
will be 107 14th Street, Upper, Buffalo, NY 14213, and my primary email
address, as I said in my latest _Tinfish_ missive, will be
sschu30844@aol.com.
I hope to be meeting a lot of list folks in coming months, whether in New
Hampshire or elsewhere.
all best,
Susan (Schultz)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 03:47:19 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
George Bowering wrote (the bit beginning "Charles, how could you!?"):
>
> >> >To Charles Bernstein---
> >> >
> >> >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I never
> >> >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so dumb,
> >> >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without
> >>talking to
> >> >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
> >>
> >> I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you mean to
> >> me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in Wyoming,
> >> N.Y.
> >
> >Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
> >Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
> >Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
> >hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
> >manual.
>
> Charles, how could you!? You told me she was just an intelligent person you
> had befriended for her quick mind! I am sending your jewelry back.
>
Some of us don't need trinkets to express the inexpressible, my dear
--what do you call yourself--Georgette? Some of us, on a summer's
eve, have the freedom of our own thoughts and need not surrender to
idle jealousies. Charles may do what he wishes with his heart; I
know I'll always have Peekskill, and my memories of the honeymoon
suite! P.S. Keep your baubles--you may need to hock them for a few
maple leaves.
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:09:21 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: the wheelbarrow
mike b rites:
> For the third time in as many years, I had a student this summer
> respond to _Spring and All_ with an off the wall anlysis of the
> wheelbarrow poem that invoked the Cold War, white armies, red armies,
> (red wheelbarrow, white chickens--get it?) etc etc. All these students
> had been taught this analysis in high school. Anybody else out there
> ever hear this? Or have any idea where it comes from? I suspect an
> issue of _The Explicator_ must be responsible and I thought perhaps
> somebody might have encountered it.
>
> Mike
> mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca
no direct comment on that, not having heard it myself (would be grateful to, at
least it shows an interest, i'm used to stolid silence in the classroom); but
another take on the red wheelbarrow from a friend who told me a student in one
of his classes insisted that "so much depends on" etc was about a farmer's
livelihood, and how much he depended on the wheelbarrow as part of his job. my
friend thought this was totally off the wall, but hey, this is the great
heartland, where farm machinery really can make or break you...i also had a
student once who insisted that the elevator images in Crane's "The Bridge" were
about grain elevators, which literally surround our minneapolitan landscape
rather than NYcity-type means of transportation up and down skyscrapers. just
goes to show, context really does shape a reading...md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:31:19 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
maria, as in the thread earlier this year, i don't want to come out against
the artistic-poetic possibilities of slams---the unexpected, slams as a
more democratizing venue, the sorts of 'unfettered' experiences bob holman
is after...
but the trouble i have/am having/will probably continue to have with slams
(and may they continue to proliferate regardless my qualms) is the way the
venue works, the way it tends to give short-shrift, say, to the contested
basis of aesthetics... and this is sparked perhaps by the spectacle of it
all... critical reception, for me, is not an ebert-siskel
thumbs-up/down/sideways---which is more evaluation/judgment... and which
tends to promote---and here i'm being most harsh---a knee-jerk audience
response... at the same time, sure---it's not the 'diversifier's' fault, as
you suggest... or at least i'm not interested in 'blaming'... and sure, i
like to see folks get together even to gawk over wordplay, but----
i think slams tend to create an aura (i only hint mself at benjamin here)
in which, like any potentially powerful entertainment, one may be swept up,
down or aside... i am---very def. am---suggesting that the nature of the
venue itself plays to our cultural predisposition toward
entertainment/spectacle (this latter now an old argument)... not that the
structure may not be used against itself, so to say...
that many folks may (will?) exploit the slam scene, as it's currently
constructed, largely to the ends of self-validation seems to me a given,
and seems to me to further the sorts of simplistic identity formations that
have in many ways vitiated all sorts of poetic constructions---making slams
no worse, and no better, than much acclaimed poetry... believe me, i'm not
against occasionally thundering egos saturated with political righteousness
or sublime moments of resplendent logos voiced with utter and complete
sincerity... but to put the matter a bit obliquely (and based on my
experience): when three-quarters or better of the folks at a slam begin
and end on such notes, often without the slightest hint of performance
anxiety, i find mself asking, to what do we owe such unmitigated
bravery?...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:52:36 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julie Marie Schmid <jschmid@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: the wheelbarrow
In-Reply-To: <321875914103776@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Hey all--
I've taught The Red Wheelbarrow for a couple of years now, and tend to
teach it on a section on Imagism. Before having them read the poem, I
give them Pound's definition of the Image as a framework for their
readings, along with Pound's In a Station of a Metro, some HD, some
Marianne Moore. It usually works pretty well. Iowa students tend to
really like this poem, though, because many of them either grew up on
farms or have relatives who live on farms, so they all have a very
immediate a personnal response to the complex of images that Wms. is using.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:06:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "John E. Matthias" <John.E.Matthias.1@ND.EDU>
Subject: Berryman
William Northcutt:
It's Dream Song #14, and it's "inner resources" (not "natural resources")
...my mother told me as a boy
(repeatingly) 'Ever to confess you're bored
means you have no
Inner Resources.' I conclude now I have no
inner resources, because I am heavy bored...
etc.
John Matthias
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:15:07 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Henry Gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: performance art/slams
Huck had never seen a bear before. Sometime Aunt Padgett would tell stories
about bears that strolled through Mudville in the early morning,
long time ago before they built the levee. & sometime Pap would tell
about his old huntin days before his leg turned green. So when Professor
Bigelow Peepers & his Big Animal Bear Flea Circus came to town, why,
Huck ran down there first thing even though he paid his last nickel
to Tom for a postcard of the actress Fannie Measles. He snuck in through
the back of the tent, & couldn't hardly see for the glare of all them
newfangled lights flashin & all the noise & crowds of people from
up & down the river roarin & shoutin & laughin & hittin each other.
But by golly, sure nough, right there in the center ring walkin around
in a circle on a chain with a little party hat on his head, led
by a clown in an Abe Lincoln outfit, was...why, a real live sure-shootin
BEAR! & that bear was growlin & mumblin...to the tune of YANKEE DOODLE!
- Henry Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:05:23 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
joe rites, among other things:
.. when three-quarters or better of the folks at a slam begin
> and end on such notes, often without the slightest hint of performance
> anxiety, i find mself asking, to what do we owe such unmitigated
> bravery?...
>
probably a lot of beer.
so a lot of people use slams to build up their egos. how unlike the demure and
self-effacing academy; how unlike the demure and self-effacing AWP scene; how
unlike other performance forms, like acting, rock & other popular musics, and
"performance art," where humility and anonymity are the ruling ethos.
md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:07:02 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: read barrows & lifts (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:05:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
To: poetis@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: read barrows & lifts
Re: red wheel barrows and elevators:
A barrow is a grave, stones marking a grave site
A red wheel barrow: a read/red grave
From In the American Grain, "Founding of Quebec" chapter:
The land! Don't you feel it? Doesn't it make you want to go and
lift dead Indians tenderly from their graves --to steal from them
--as if it must be clinging even to their corpses--some authenticity,
that which--
Stealing and reading/writing-and graves--from The Great American Novel:
There cannot be a novel. There can only be pyramids, pyramids of
words, tombs . . .
He smiled and she, from long practise, began to read to him,
porgressing rapidly until she said; You can't fool me.
he became very angry but understood at once that she had
penetrated his mystery, that she he was staeling in order to write words.
I have only taught theis poem once--this was method I used as it
maeks connections among the read/red graves (read, and red as "red
Indians/"dead indians")--stealing in order to write--Williams' use of
womens voices ("out of the mouths of Polish mothers")(and where is
Flossie's voice--)--and WCW's sense that there is an interealtionship
between the landscape and the american idiom--longing for such, perhaps
to steal an authenticity from Indian graves . . .which could be used for
reading the Tenochtitlan chapter of In the American Garain for exaample,
which he said he tried to model in paragraph structure on the structure
of the masonry there--
notice also the close placement of the words "lift" and "steal"
in the "Founding of Quebec \" quote above--lift is slang for steal--as
well as elevators--one cd think of lifts going up and down in buildings
in connection with stealing/finances/land speculations/the purchase of
manhattan--and grain elevators--a hoarding of booty etc--in that
hoarding, stock piling can be a form of stealing--driving up prices
through shortages etc.
But this approach did open quite a series of good discussions in
class room.
As you can think of stealing words in order to write in many
relations to sampling in music and "referencing" in music videos--which
now causing many legal problems, litigation/literature aspect of stealing
words . . .
And--the question of stealing from the dead . . . who may not be
able to sue!
anyway--some different approaches to directions opened by the red
wheel barrow
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:08:33 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
Comments: To: Bob Holman <Nuyopoman@AOL.COM>
On 19 Aug 96 at 0:37, Bob Holman wrote:
> FYI, Mouth Almighty Records is releasing a WAMMO (that's the way he spells
> it) album in Oct... called "The Fat-Headed Stranger" it mixes blues, grunge,
> rock and uh spoken word. Even a lil ol Laurie Anderson satire. Backchannel me
> a snail and I'll ship you off a copy....
No kidding! I have his previous CD (with his band W.O.R.M.) and it's
dynamite. Gotta hear the new one...
> Wammo himself finished second in the individuals in last year's Nationals --
> Austin looks very tough this year, w/ the WamMan as (self-annointed) Captain.
Yup -- at the Slam at the Generation X-Po festival here a coupla
weeks ago, the members of the Austin team won everything. I think
at this point, Wammo could do "There's Too Much Light in this Bar" in
his sleep, backwards, in Latvian, and still win.
> as for e's experiences ("but, how to describe
> this, ALL my slams were full of wierd extremes ) I say amen. This is one
> reason I go to Slams. To hear new unfettered is another. To be able to say to
> the poet who has talentbut got a low score that you liked the poem is also
> part of it. The best poet always loses is the only rule in Slam.
Yeah. There's an article on judging Slams in the latest Omnivore (put
out by Su Broskowitz somewhere in Massachusetts) that shows, pretty
accurately, the way that some judges do it -- and it ain't pretty.
There's a hilarious article in the latest CyberSangha about a
(fictitious) Zen competition. The winner bellows at everyone: "I am
the most serene!" and gets high scores in levitation and
enlightenment.
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:29:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
hey, what's good for the goose maria, you're right...
which is why i say that slams are no better and no worse in this regard...
but if i'm to take to task poetry that wallows in its own constructions
(which i am, incl. mine own) why then i guess i'd ask for this sort of
critical reflexiveness in all fora (incl. rock & roll---but i'd hate to
erase distinctions twixt performance venues, yknow)... and which it seems
to me is *not* promoted in the slam scene...
or am i wrong?...
mebbe it all comes down to making slams the focus of more active critical
attention?... mebbe in fact this speaks to the function of criticism
etc?...
but then, this just means that i keep on posting!...
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:47:11 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: _A Humument_ pages...
om Phillips' wondruffle visual work _A Humument_ has a webpage,
with many images from the book:
http://www.wolfenet.com/~duchamp/index.html
i had just pulled my (paper) copy down th other day, after looking
at some of Charles Bernstein's visual poem "veil" at the epc:
http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/bernstein/visual/veil.html
the software charles used has some roots in CAD and draftsmen's
conventions, while phillips background in drafting is aparent
thruout.... anyway, id recommend th site (despite the frames...)
lbd
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:51:49 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Drake <au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Robert Drake <au462@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: [fdoctor@quimor.qo.fcen.uba.ar: Postypographika update]
================= Begin forwarded message =================
From: fdoctor@quimor.qo.fcen.uba.ar (Fabio Doctorovich)
To: phmenez@exatas.pucsp.br, V273FS6S@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu, grosman@minerva.cis.yale.edu, huthg@nyslgti.gen.ny.us, HPOLKIN@UCSVAX.SDSU.EDU, NinthLab@aol.com, jaharvey@mindspring.com, SLeftwich@aol.com, fowler@phantom.com, pered@pinos.com, V001PXFU@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu, au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu, burgaud@euronet.nl, DreamtimeV@aol.com, davidson@cs.unca.edu, salasin@wln.com, achterwerk@pobox.com (Joop Greypink), ga04721@vnet.net (Karl Young), sanrensi@teleport.com, gyepiz@cicese.mx (Yepiz), lolpoet@acsu.buffalo.edu (Loss Glazier, EPC), jlehmus@cute.fi (Jukka Lehmus), jordanh@iquest.net (Jordanne Holyoak), ficus@citynet.net (Ficus Strangulensis, Transmog), ekac1@service1.uky.edu, egolomb@punto.com (Ernesto Golomb), selby@slip.net (Spencer Selby), "ted.warnell"@bbs.logicnet.com, jablonk@pi.net, jbennett@magnus.acs.ohio.state.edu
Subject: Postypographika update
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 96 15:48 GMT-0300
I have just finished updating Postypographika, with a very EXtense and
INtense virtual poetry work by L. P. Gyori.
Regards to all of you!
Fabio Doctorovich
Postypographika
http://www.postypographika.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:36:07 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
Joe said......" and which it seems
to me is *not* promoted in the slam scene...
or am i wrong?...
mebbe it all comes down to making slams the focus of more active critical
attention?..."
That is part of how it is changing, albeit slowly, in that criticism is
becoming part of the scene. Active critical attention is certainly
appropriate to the scene but lettuce not forget critics by and large don't
critique until something, in this case slams, is taken seriously. Perhaps
we are going through a phase transition in which the need to critique &
understand the slam phenom becomes self evident. Whereas before it has
been much easier to dismiss.
I wonder though if the economics of the academy will force this
reevaluation. It seems as though from an admin point of view that having a
few classes here and there concerned with perform po & slams would
certainly be an attractive way to up enrollment ; ) in moribound lit
departs. Why they might even have to pull in some candidates from the
hinterlands of the system to keep up with the demand.
and..." seems to me to further the sorts of simplistic identity formations that
have in many ways vitiated all sorts of poetic constructions---making slams
no worse, and no better, than much acclaimed poetry... believe me, i'm not
against occasionally thundering egos saturated with political righteousness
or sublime moments of resplendent logos voiced with utter and complete
sincerity... but to put the matter a bit obliquely (and based on my
experience): when three-quarters or better of the folks at a slam begin
and end on such notes, often without the slightest hint of performance
anxiety, i find mself asking, to what do we owe such unmitigated
bravery?..."
Simplistic identity formations engender simple people. Hence the state of
the world. Umitigated bravery is easy when your preaching to the
converted. An audience at a slam could not be more converted. It's easy
to read some witty verse deriding the state of society to a group of
sympathizers but take that same poem out onto the street corner with a
megaphone and see where the bravery lies. When this starts happening, that
is when it will get interesting.
cf
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:27:15 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Sylvester Pollet <POLLET@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: National Poetry Foundation Catalogue
The NPF put out a new catalogue of its books, journals, and special sale
titles in June. e-mail Gail Sapiel, sapiel@maine.maine.edu for a copy. Among
several recent titles of interest to Poetics list: Lorine Niedecker: Woman
and Poet, ed. Jenny Penberthy. 439pp, photos. $22.50 paper.
I will be putting up a book display at Assembling Alternatives: An
International Poetry Conference, Univ. New Hampshire, 29 Aug.-3 Sept. If
you'd like to take a look at anything in the catalogue, just let me know
and I'll bring a sample copy. Sylvester Pollet
Assoc. Ed./ Acting Director
National Poetry Foundation
Room 302
5752 Neville Hall
Orono, ME 04469-5752
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:49:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Christopher J. Beach" <cjbeach@BENFRANKLIN.HNET.UCI.EDU>
Subject: ACLA 1997 panel
As a few of you already know, this year's convention of the American
Comparative Literature Association will be held in Puerto Vallarta,
Mexico, from April 10-13. This year there will also be a new format of
sessions, with 8-12 person "seminar" sessions in addition to the normal
3-4 person panels. I am submitting a proposal for a larger session on
the topic "First World Poets/ Third World Cultures," which I think will
be of relevance to the conference's overall theme, "New Worlds for Old."
The panel will deal with poetry and poetics of any era, focussing on
interactions between poets of the "first world" and "third world"
cultures. Possible issues include cultural transmission of ideas and
myths, empire and (post)colonialism, translation, use of "other" cultures
to challenge or revitalize Western traditions. Papers might also explore
contact(s) between poets and "third world" communities or subcultures
within "first world" countries.
In order to consider paper proposals for the panel, I will need paper
titles and brief descriptions by September 20. These can be sent by
email (backchanneled to me) or by regular mail: Professor Christopher
Beach, Department of English and Comparative Literature, University of
California-- Irvine, Irvine, CA 92717.
I hope some of you will come up with great ideas for the session!
Christopher Beach
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:51:08 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: hammer ref
hey, rapsters out there, where exactly does hammer use the line "I'm the lyrical
jesse james?" i heard it on the radio when i still had a car radio; don't
remember name of song, etc.
bests, maria d
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:57:13 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Maria Damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: National Poetry Slam
>
> mebbe it all comes down to making slams the focus of more active critical
> attention?... mebbe in fact this speaks to the function of criticism
> etc?...
>
ding ding ding, as they say. you get the big cigar, joe. god love ya for it.
md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:34:11 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Re: _A Humument_ pages...
Luigi Bob's right about this Humument site being very very good with lots
of images.
<http://www.wolfenet.com/~duchamp/index.html>
Those of us who were looking for Humument criticism earlier (spring, I
think) should be aware of a good intro here by Bill Hurrell, a Marvin
Sackner essay, and two pieces by Daniel Traister. The (large) bibliography
unfortunately seems only to be of first publications of images from the
work.
Bests
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:09:03 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: tom phillips
Re Tom Phillips
This is familiar territory to many on list, but for those who
don't know it--an excellent assemblage of Phillips materials (interview,
writings by Tom Phillips, essays,reviews and bibliography) is to be found in
Open Letter Fourth Series, Numbers
1&2 Summer 1978: Between poetry and Painting. Other artists given similar
consideration are Joe Phillips and Ian Tyson. The volume was edited by
Kevin Power and is Number 7 in The Margins Symposium Series edited by
Karl Young
I'd highly recommend the collection to any one not yet familiar
with it.
Thanks to those providing Web Site information for visual
poetry! Have been on prowl for these.
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:22:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: the wheelbarrow
Michael, et al.
My wife Angela had student several years ago that told her Williams's red
wheelbarrow and white chickens was all about communists and so on. Well, it
was usually as hard as pulling hens' teeth to get those students to try any
kind of reading or "interpretation", so something must have been up.
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 08:23:23 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: George Starbuck
George, It is a question how old any of us might be at 26. I wasn't so young
at that age, married, mortgage, one child, a few grey hairs. How young were you?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:27:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
For Rachel, if that's your real name---
>> >> >To Charles Bernstein---
>> >> >
>> >> >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I
>>never
>> >> >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so
>>dumb,
>> >> >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without
>> >>talking to
>> >> >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
>> >>
>> >> I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you mean to
>> >> me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in Wyoming,
>> >> N.Y.
>> >
>> >Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
>> >Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
>> >Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
>> >hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
>> >manual.
>>
>> Charles, how could you!? You told me she was just an intelligent person you
>> had befriended for her quick mind! I am sending your jewelry back.
>>
>
>Some of us don't need trinkets to express the inexpressible, my dear
>--what do you call yourself--Georgette? Some of us, on a summer's
>eve, have the freedom of our own thoughts and need not surrender to
>idle jealousies. Charles may do what he wishes with his heart; I
>know I'll always have Peekskill, and my memories of the honeymoon
>suite! P.S. Keep your baubles--you may need to hock them for a few
>maple leaves.
Oh yeah? Well, Charles told me a VERY interesting story about you and a
certain Mister Joris, which I could never repeat in public. But REALLY, did
you have to go to Poughkeepsie for something like that?
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:35:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: read barrows & lifts (fwd)
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:05:56 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
>To: poetis@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
>Subject: read barrows & lifts
>
>
>
> Re: red wheel barrows and elevators:
>
> A barrow is a grave, stones marking a grave site
>
> A red wheel barrow: a read/red grave
>
God! even the teachers do it now!
George Bowering. "Sighing is extra."
2499 West 37th Ave., --Gertrude Stein
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 16:18:48 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Maybe Morphing Hammer Quoters?
Comments: To: Maria Damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
A quick Altavista search shows the text:
Radical mind, day and night, all the time.
Seven, fourteen, wise divine.
Maniac, Brainiac, winner of the game,
I'm the lyrical Jesse James.
to be from "The Power" by Snap. It's in (*gulp*) the Mighty Morphin
Power Rangers FAQ.
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 15:55:02 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Quartermain <Quarterm@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: The well-read Barrow
Well, yes, Mike. Two or maybe three times in the last two decades I've had
students read it as a poem about Red Chinese economics -- which makes more
sense, maybe, in vancouver that it does in Toronna. But not much. An
ethnocentrism which gloms onto western material "progress" as the subtext of
the poem. The real difficulty is getting them to see how any coded reading
closes the poem down. But you get a hell of a lot of (useful) discussion in
class as a result.
Peter
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Peter Quartermain
128 East 23rd Avenue
Vancouver
B.C.
Canada V5V 1X2
Voice and fax: 604 876 8061
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:45:24 -0900
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Benedetti <dbenedet@UNM.EDU>
Subject: poetry slams
I guess what I really object to is "judges" supposedly judging poetry as
better or worse--or even having the entire audience "vote" and thereby
judge "poetry performances" (slams)--and making the whole event
competitive. Admittedly, this is my personal issue (at least)--I hate
the idea of competition, ranking, judging, hierarchizing, and all the
authority structures that implies--and most especially when this
oppressive crap is applied to poetry readings.
Criticism points out all sorts of connections, and lack of
connections, (hopefully), and doesn't simple rank and judge on a
scale of one to zero (or minus one).
I don't mind hearing or giving a forum and some time to the most
drunken lout nazi rip-off, as long as the setting is such that my
poem does not have to be compared to his.
All the audience can appreciate/not appreciate the work (as they
do) and no ranking and judging is needed, or desired, (it seems to
me)...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 20:52:34 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Poetics List <poetics@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Twentieth-Century Lit. Conference (fwd)
I'm not sure if Alan Golding has already resent this...
but it came to poetics dugout instead
-jk
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:02:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan Golding <ACGOLD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
To: Poetics List <poetics@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Twentieth-Century Lit. Conference
Associate Professor of English, U. of Louisville
Phone: (502)-852-5918; e-mail: acgold01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
Tom Orange's recent mention of the U. of Louisville's Twentieth-Century Lit.
conference reminded me to send out my annual invitation to the list for papers
and panels. Deadline is 10/1 postmark. Proposals should be mailed to the
Conference Director, Harriette Seiler, Dept. of Classical and Modern
Languages, U. of Louisville, Louisville, KY 40292. Anyone who needs more
specifics can get them from Harriette (her e-mail:
hmseil01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu) or from me. Keynote speakers this year are
Bonnie Kime Scott and A Player To Be Named Later.
Alan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:12:04 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: poetry slams
Ice-dancing, synchronised swimming, ballroom-dancing, debating, dog
shows, surfing, gymnastics, figure-skating, are all jury-sports.
Slams share their problems, or so I gather, lacking finite measures?
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:02:43 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: poetry slams
as someone with such a weird ego that i can't send stuff out but need others to
(i hardly even send academic papers out now; rejection is so yucky), i can
relate to this. i don't know if i'd ever participate in a slam unless i were
pretty well assured of the crowd as friendly etc. i realize i've been coming at
this discussion as a critic/appreciator, rather than as a participant. i've
been absorbing the common lore that the competitive aspect of slam is just a
pretext for getting folks involved; but of course, it gets me involved as a
spectator rather than as a participant.
by the way, is anyone interested in publishing a 25-page paper on lenny bruce's
first obscenity trial transcript as a cultural document? please only respond in
the affirmative, if you've got a response.
bests, maria
In message <Pine.PCW.3.91.960819183259.14566C-100000@dbenedet.unm.edu> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> I guess what I really object to is "judges" supposedly judging poetry as
> better or worse--or even having the entire audience "vote" and thereby
> judge "poetry performances" (slams)--and making the whole event
> competitive. Admittedly, this is my personal issue (at least)--I hate
> the idea of competition, ranking, judging, hierarchizing, and all the
> authority structures that implies--and most especially when this
> oppressive crap is applied to poetry readings.
> Criticism points out all sorts of connections, and lack of
> connections, (hopefully), and doesn't simple rank and judge on a
> scale of one to zero (or minus one).
> I don't mind hearing or giving a forum and some time to the most
> drunken lout nazi rip-off, as long as the setting is such that my
> poem does not have to be compared to his.
> All the audience can appreciate/not appreciate the work (as they
> do) and no ranking and judging is needed, or desired, (it seems to
> me)...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 22:47:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: kaona <kaona@LARABY.TIAC.NET>
Subject: Re: hammer ref
In-Reply-To: <3218a98c4103716@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
is it really Hammer who uses it? i know that Snap had a top-40ish
song with that line in it--"I've Got the Power" was the title?
On Mon, 19 Aug 1996, Maria Damon wrote:
> hey, rapsters out there, where exactly does hammer use the line "I'm the lyrical
> jesse james?" i heard it on the radio when i still had a car radio; don't
> remember name of song, etc.
> bests, maria d
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:48:53 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
George Bowering added (the bit beginning "Oh yeah?"):
>
> > >> >> >To Charles Bernstein---
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I
> >>never
> >> >> >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so
> >>dumb,
> >> >> >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without
> >> >>talking to
> >> >> >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
> >> >>
> >> >> I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you mean to
> >> >> me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in Wyoming,
> >> >> N.Y.
> >> >
> >> >Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
> >> >Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
> >> >Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
> >> >hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
> >> >manual.
> >>
> >> Charles, how could you!? You told me she was just an intelligent person you
> >> had befriended for her quick mind! I am sending your jewelry back.
> >>
> >
> >Some of us don't need trinkets to express the inexpressible, my dear
> >--what do you call yourself--Georgette? Some of us, on a summer's
> >eve, have the freedom of our own thoughts and need not surrender to
> >idle jealousies. Charles may do what he wishes with his heart; I
> >know I'll always have Peekskill, and my memories of the honeymoon
> >suite! P.S. Keep your baubles--you may need to hock them for a few
> >maple leaves.
>
> Oh yeah? Well, Charles told me a VERY interesting story about you and a
> certain Mister Joris, which I could never repeat in public. But REALLY, did
> you have to go to Poughkeepsie for something like that?
Poughkeepsie! That sweet city with her dreaming spires...But no, I
think Charles must have me mixed up with Amy Fisher in her preteen,
pre-Buttafuoco days (Pierre's the only one who REALLY knows, and
HE at least is too much of a gentleman to say. Aren't you Pierre?).
I deal with all of this in my sonnet series "Snorkling the Lotus,"
for anyone who really wants to plumb the depths of those times. "The
past is a foreign country: they do things differently there." I
forgive you, Charles.
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:24:50 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: wystan <w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: English Dept. - Univ. of Auckland
Subject: Re: Twentieth-Century Lit. Conference (fwd)
Comments: To: poetics@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
Dear Alan,
Give me details. Would you? Please. Thanks.
Wystan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:44:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: George Starbuck
>George, It is a question how old any of us might be at 26. I wasn't so young
>at that age, married, mortgage, one child, a few grey hairs. How young
>were you?
>
>Tony Green,
Well, I wasnt married yet. I was pretty young, actually. Hmm, 26. That was
1962. I was pretty innocent, though a heavy Olson reader. Well, some smoke.
A little jazz. French movies. Didnt get to Mexico till 1963. Didnt get to
Europe till 1966. Didnt get to New Zealand till 1984. Pretty innocent
still.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:53:04 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@CHASS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: The well-read Barrow
In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960819155713.271f616c@pop.unixg.ubc.ca> from "Peter
Quartermain" at Aug 19, 96 03:55:02 pm
> Well, yes, Mike. Two or maybe three times in the last two decades I've had
> students read it as a poem about Red Chinese economics -- which makes more
> sense, maybe, in vancouver that it does in Toronna. But not much. An
> ethnocentrism which gloms onto western material "progress" as the subtext of
> the poem. The real difficulty is getting them to see how any coded reading
> closes the poem down. But you get a hell of a lot of (useful) discussion in
> class as a result.
>
> Peter
The student in my class this summer told a nightmare story of having
ventured a tentative analysis of the poem only to be told by her high
school teacher that she was wrong, that the poem was really about the
cold war. According to my student, she gave up on poetry at that
point, since she felt she was too dumb to get it. Imagine her surprise
when she read _Spring and All_ and saw where the wheelbarrow actually
is parked.
The wide-spread nature of this particular "interpretation" leads me to
suspect that there's some more systematic conspiracy behind its
promulgation. I won't mention any names, but the initials "GB" came to
mind right away, not withstanding public attempts on this list by
certain poet/novelists in Vancouver to cast suspicion elsewhere.
Skeptically,
Mike
mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 06:18:58 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: trial transcript (was Re: poetry slams)
maria damon wrote:
> by the way, is anyone interested in publishing a 25-page paper on lenny bruce's
> first obscenity trial transcript as a cultural document?
Maria, is this the trial in which the prosecutor asks a witness
whether, on some particular occasion, Mr. Crotch was seen touching
his bruce?
Rachel
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 08:47:11 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: trial transcript (was Re: poetry slams)
rachel l (of recent "Oh Charles" fame) rites:
> maria damon wrote:
>
> > by the way, is anyone interested in publishing a 25-page paper on lenny
> > bruce's
> > first obscenity trial transcript as a cultural document?
>
> Maria, is this the trial in which the prosecutor asks a witness
> whether, on some particular occasion, Mr. Crotch was seen touching
> his bruce?
>
> Rachel
no, but lots of other entertaining shenanigans very reminiscent of the recent
culture wars and NEA/Jesse Helms stuff. at one point the judge actually quizzes
the defense on the storyline of lysistrata. and the prosecution pits the "long
beards at Berkeley" and the stevedores out with the boys against the regular
Americans.
bests, maria
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:51:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: red Indian barrow
Literal statements often conceal violent analogies.
--Robert Smithson
In recent posts Julie Marie Schmid, George Bowering and Michael
Boughn refer to Williams' "red wheelbarrow".
Peter Quartermain writes of "an ethnocentrism which gloms onto
western material "progress" as the subtext of the poem. The real
difficulty is getting to see how any coded reading closes the poem down.
The lines in the poem are:
a red wheel
barrow
Barrow can also mean a grave site marked by stones.
This grave opens up other readings in Williams' work in relation
to red/read graves as "Red Indian" graves to be used in relation to
"western 'progress'"and "ethocentrism":
From The Great American Novel:
If there is progress then there is a novel.
There cannot be a novel. There can only be pyramids, pyramidsof words,
tombs.
From I Wanted to Write a Poem:
The Tenochtitaln cahpter (in In the American Grain) was written
in big square paragraphs like Inca masonry.
From In the American Grain, "Founding of Quebec" chapter:
The land! Don't you feel it? Doesn't it make you want to go out
and lift dead Indians tenderly from their graves, to steal from them--as
if it must be clinging even to their corpses--some authenticity--that which--
From The Great American Novel:
He smiled and she, from long practise, began to read to him,
progressing rapidly until she said: You can't fool me.
He became very angry but understood at once that hse had
penetrated his mystery, that she saw he was stealing in order to write words.
Concealing violent analogies in a literal statement: as "the red
wheelbarrow" or "a red wheel/barrow": coded readings or encoded readings
. . .
open many "grave" questions:
From The Great American Novel:
What difference is it whether I make the words or take the
words. It makes no difference whatever.
To steal authenticity . . . to make words . . . in relation to
"the land!"
Benjamin's Aura . . . and sampling, referencing in videos . . .
Nations and tribes fighting for the return of bones dug up from
graves in Sacred ground and placed in museums and laboratoires . . .
"She saw he was stealing words in order to write" and "out of the
mouths of Polish mothers" . . .
A red wheel/barrow as open grave for readings . . .
Walter Benjamin, "Theses on the Philosophy of History":
There is no document of civilization that is not at the same time
a document of barbarism . . . (A historical materialist) regards it as
his task to brush history against the grain.
A red wheel/barrow read in the context of Williams' writing on
Indians, graves, writing and stealing may open up In the American Grain
to readings that "brush history against the grain".
---dave baptiste chirot
(Williams also writes of red in relation to misnamed robins in the essay
"The American Background". Again, Williams is considering the relation
of "the land!" to the American language, the American idiom, as he does
in "The Founding of Quebec" chapter: "Here not
there".)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:11:43 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:51:20 -0500 from
<tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Just to follow up on Dave Chirot's post, the phrase "so much depends"
itself could be taken as an invitation tp "dig deeper". - Henry Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:51:08 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:11:43 EDT from
<AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Addendum to previous post: I think you have to try to find out what the
author is trying to say, because it's often very specific (and you have
to try, even if it's vague). This is an outdated form of litcrit for
some people, I don't want to get into that... My own view is that Williams
was just writing sort of an "epiphany" - the poem is the things in it,
shining in the daylight, & that's all you need to celebrate.
But once you get a sense (at least to your own satisfaction) of
what a poem is trying to do, it's legitimate to hear other things in it,
unintended meanings & overtones. That's how I read the red/Red wheelbarrow
barrow "subtext". Williams quite likely heard those overtones too -
but I don't see him making that under-meaning an integral part of the
poem. Unless it is some kind of icon for his whole work as a poet -
a wheelbarrow is literarily a laboring tool, an earth-mover, lifting
the red (Native) earth barrow into view, full of life-rain, next to the
(very) white chickens...poetry as wheelbarrow...very well, I contradict
myself! Would take some more Williams archaeology to decide this one.
My point is to look for a middle ground between "No that's NOT what
the poem is about!" and "this poem means whatever I say it means".
You have to look for the author's intention (though Derrida might deride).
It's usually where the most subtle language effects are, anyway - depend upon
it. - H. Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:00:36 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carl Lynden Peters <clpeters@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: The well-read Barrow
In-Reply-To: <199608201153.HAA27866@chass.utoronto.ca> from "Michael Boughn"
at Aug 20, 96 07:53:04 am
i had a student last term comment that 'the red wheel barrow' was a sonnet!
i gave that student an A in the course for that. i'm just a dissertation
student. so what do i know!
carl
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:26:24 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
Henry Gould writes:
>the poem is the things in it
Things?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judy Roitman | "Glad to have
Math, University of Kansas | these copies of things
Lawrence, KS 66045 | after a while."
913-864-4630 | Larry Eigner, 1927-1996
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:23:04 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: The well-read Barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:00:36 -0700 from <clpeters@SFU.CA>
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:00:36 -0700 Carl Lynden Peters said:
>i had a student last term comment that 'the red wheel barrow' was a sonnet!
>i gave that student an A in the course for that. i'm just a dissertation
>student. so what do i know!
Just thought I'd warn you - heard backchannel you've been targeted
by the sonnet police. You could get 14 lines to life for that.
Call Langpo Central after midnight if you need a place to lose your
authorial identity.
- An Anonymous Friend
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:34:17 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:26:24 -0500 from
<roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:26:24 -0500 Judy Roitman said:
>Henry Gould writes:
>
> >the poem is the things in it
>
>
>Things?
Yeah, as in "Things & arrowths of outhrageous forthune" - HG
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:58:41 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Daniel Bouchard <Daniel_Bouchard@HMCO.COM>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:26:24 -0500 Judy Roitman said:
>Henry Gould writes:
>
> >the poem is the things in it
>
>
>Things?
Yeah, as in "Things & arrowths of outhrageous forthune" - HG
And the 'no ideas but in . . . '
- db
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:22:57 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
> Literal statements often conceal violent analogies.
>
>--Robert Smithson
>
> In recent posts Julie Marie Schmid, George Bowering and Michael
>Boughn refer to Williams' "red wheelbarrow".
> Peter Quartermain writes of "an ethnocentrism which gloms onto
>western material "progress" as the subtext of the poem. The real
>difficulty is getting to see how any coded reading closes the poem down.
>
> The lines in the poem are:
>
> a red wheel
> barrow
>
> Barrow can also mean a grave site marked by stones.
>
> This grave opens up other readings in Williams' work in relation
>to red/read graves as "Red Indian" graves to be used in relation to
>"western 'progress'"and "ethocentrism":
>
That is an "opening up"?
Now, what are you going to do with that red wheel.
You have a problem here because the red Insians did not have a wheel,
except for the toys made around Tenochtitlan.
But that wheel was used only for that. It was a kind of Bare O
wxh is another use of the sound "barrow".
So I figure that Williams is talking about the Aztecs. And all you have to
do is look at _In the American Grain_ to see his interest in the Aztecs.
And of course one is tempted to call his book _In the American Grave_.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:23:04 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
>Just to follow up on Dave Chirot's post, the phrase "so much depends"
>itself could be taken as an invitation tp "dig deeper". - Henry Gould
You'll have to explain that one to me. Depends means hangs from. Dig means
shove one's shovel into and lift. I dont see the invitation mentioned.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:29:01 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
>Addendum to previous post: I think you have to try to find out what the
>author is trying to say,
As an "author", I am bothered by this. Why try to see what I am "trying" to
say. Why not go with what I say?
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:27:21 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:29:01 -0700 from <bowering@SFU.CA>
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:29:01 -0700 George Bowering said:
>>Addendum to previous post: I think you have to try to find out what the
>>author is trying to say,
>
>As an "author", I am bothered by this. Why try to see what I am "trying" to
>say. Why not go with what I say?
>
"what the author is trying to say" - it bothers me too, now, but not for the
same reason. It bothers me because it's such a tired cliche. But to
try to answer your question... in a poem, like other forms
of communication, but sealed in writing, the author may be trying to say
about a dozen things at the same time. & sealing that in writing is not
so easy, may take some trying. Especially if you're trying to say things
that are not so obvious, if you're trying to say things in a new or forceful
way. Of course, the author may try to say these difficult things in a way
which seems fluent & easy - not so easy to do! Try & see! - Henry G
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:54:52 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Libbie Rifkin <lr22@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Berkeley 1965
Does anyone know whether there are "official" records of the
proceedings of the Berkeley Poetry Conference of 1965? I've got the
published transcript of Olson's speech, several anecdotal
references from Ted Berrigan, and the usual mentions in literary
historical accounts. Could anyone direct me to more material on the
event? Perhaps there are people on the list who were there who would like
to share their experiences?
I'm interested in the tenor of the event as a whole--just how Zeitgeist-y
it actually felt. I'm
also particularly interested in the way Olson's speech was received, in
whether and how Zukofsky (in his absence) played a role, and in Ed Dorn's
talk on dead poets.
Any info would be great. Feel free to backchannel if this doesn't seem
fit for group discussion.
Libbie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:00:47 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@CHASS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: <v01530504ae3fc20dde54@[142.58.126.13]> from "George Bowering" at
Aug 20, 96 12:29:01 pm
Wow, an explication war. I was just looking for an issue of _The
Explicator_.
Here's how WCW explains the poem in _Spring and All_:
The fixed categories into which life is divided must
always hold. These things are normal--essential to every activity.
But they exist--but not as dead dissections.
The curriculum of knowledge cannot but be divided into
the sciences, the thousand and one groups of data, scientific,
philosophic or whatnot--as many as there exist in
Shakespeare--things that make him appear the university of all
ages.
But this is not the thing. In the galvanic category
of--The same things exist, but in a different condition when
energized by the imagination.
I think this is the final word on the damned poem, then--the
wheelbarrow is a symbol for Shakespeare.
Hermeneutically,
Mike
mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:27:19 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: william marsh <wmarsh@NUNIC.NU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The well-read Barrow
At 02:23 PM 8/20/96 EDT, you wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:00:36 -0700 Carl Lynden Peters said:
>>i had a student last term comment that 'the red wheel barrow' was a sonnet!
>>i gave that student an A in the course for that. i'm just a dissertation
>>student. so what do i know!
carl -- 'the red wheel barrow' is as on net
can i get an "A" for that too?
bill
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:33:30 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: conference fwd
From: Center for Advanced Feminist Studies <cafs@tc.umn.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:51:00 -0500
To: Multiple recipients of list CAFS-F2 <cafs-f2@tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Frontline Feminisms conference
------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------
From: mwaller@mail.ucr.edu (Marguerite R. Waller)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 96 17:33:35 -0500
To: nandl@IGC.APC.ORG,
m.burroughs@ulst.ac.uk,
kferguso@hawaii.edu,
wedo@IGC.APC.ORG,
iwtc@IGC.APC.ORG,
cshr@columbia.edu,
Ethel_Long-Scott@bmug.org,
weap@sirius.com,
ileneros@cats.ucsc.edu,
diamond@fox.nstn.ca,
gendv@cuhk.edu.hk,
Center for Advanced Feminist Studies <cafs@tc.umn.edu>,
muhonjia@ns1.africaonline.com,
yklein@dawsoncollege.qc.ca,
AWHRC@phil.gn.apc.org,
ZINNIA42@aol.com,
mckay@plains.uwyo.edu,
MEDICA@ADA.WOMAN.DE,
lorentzen@usfca.edu,
mjhl@queensu.ca,
iucn@mos.com.np,
suitcase@IGC.APC.ORG,
grover@spot.Colorado.edu,
mor@sfsu.edu,
chinchil@csulb.edu,
lpeach@UBmail.ubalt.edu,
angela_davis@macmail.ucsc.edu,
aihwaong@uclink.berkeley.edu,
ccohn@polar.bowdoin.edu,
doub@csf.colorado.edu,
Bowery@aol.com,
tickner@mizar.usc.edu,
canela@uwashington.edu,
johnson@clpgh.org,
lawgroup@IGC.APC.ORG,
hues.branson.org@mail.ucr.edu,
kwilmot@mail.sdsu,
edu@mail.ucr.edu,
Babe_ZG@ZAMIR-zg.ztn.apc.org,
EAST/WEST@AFSC.com,
doriew@IGC.APC.ORG,
Lepa-ZENSKI_CENTAR@ZAMIR-BG.ztn.apc.org,
ORLANDA@aol.com,
nandl@IGC.APC.ORG
Cc: piya@mail.ucr.edu (Piya Chatterjee),
Cheryl Harmer <charmer@wizard.ucr.edu>
Subject: Frontline Feminisms conference
Dear Friends, Please forgive the form letter nature of this communication.
As Piya and I begin to map out the program of the Frontline Feminisms
conference, I just wanted to thank all of you for your interest and to say
that if you have not yet had a chance to send us a proposal and want to, we
would like to have something by the end of next week. A paragraph to a
page would be fine. You can send it by fax (909-787-6386), email, or snail
mail (Dept. of Women's Studies, UC Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521). If we
have already discussed submitting a proposal in early September, I have
duly noted this. If you need more information, send a message to
charmer@wizard.ucr.edu.
At the same time, please take the opportunity to tell us whether and what
kind of financial help you might need to attend the conference.
We will make several kinds of lodging available including hotels,
dormatory rooms, and the homes of hospitable community members. The
airport serving Riverside most immediately is Ontario. Further details
concerning transportation, housing, registration etc. will be forthcoming.
Everyday seems to bring exciting news about the way the conference is
shaping up. Several publishers are interested in publishing the
proceedings, and we are exploring a recent offer to have the conference
audio-taped with radio tie-ins.
We will keep you posted, and please feel free to contact any of us at any time.
Sincerely, Margie Waller, Center for Women in Coalition
Marguerite R. Waller, Chair
Women's Studies Department
------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------
Karen Moon, Administrative Aide
Center for Advanced Feminist Studies, University of MN
496 Ford Hall/224 Church St. SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
phone: (612) 624-6310
fax: (612) 624-3573
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:08:43 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: George Starbuck
But 26 AND a poet published in a book is young enough.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:37:14 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Walter K. Lew" <WKL888@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: conference fwd
Maria-
Is that the same M. Waller who taught us Dante at Amherst?
WLK888
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:39:48 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
There is nothing in the poem, shining or otherwise.
There are no things. The things are in the place where
the words are heard as saying something
to do with
some things.
The "intention" is unknowable; the
various effects are all you can get.
How
the rhetoric results in the read effects is
a matter for attention -- even though these
effects are particular to this one piece.
It's the only way to understand what happens to
the reader as the reader reads.
The "intention" comes down to
the varied possibilities opened
by the text.
You might say that a certain breadth
of possibility was the "intention" since that was the
way the writer had it put in print.
I'd look at it as more
a question of the use
of the poem, rather than the comm-
unication of the thought of the author
concealed behind the poem.
Besides it's obvious as a doctor, Williams, with that red and white,
was really thinking about red and white blood corpuscles.
best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:57:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Walter K. Lew" <WKL888@AOL.COM>
Subject: Whoops
Poetics list--
I meant to back-channel that question abt the Dante course to Maria.
Whatever, I realize now that it had to be a different Waller who taught it,
and, just to set the record straight, we weren't Amherst College students,
but attending the course through the Five College system. Ho-hum.
WKL888
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:27:48 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
the author may be trying to say
>about a dozen things at the same time. & sealing that in writing is not
>so easy, may take some trying.
Maybe you are almost at something there; but I still cannot help but see a
patronising attitude in remarks about what the author is "trying" to say.
As if the critic or teacher knows more than the author, and the author is
putting up a good effort. There there, nice try, little fellow. I like to
see an author that really tries.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:44:34 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
>Besides it's obvious as a doctor, Williams, with that red and white,
>was really thinking about red and white blood corpuscles.
>Tony Green,
No, no, no. You will remember back before you and I were born, barbers were
also surgeons--hence the white and red barber's pole. Williams the doctor
was thinking about getting a haircut, and came upon this poem. The barber
always asked him how he wanted the sides, and you have seen pictures of
WCW. He always said, "Oh, bare," which said backward is of course "barrow."
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 03:09:12 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: imagination affirms reality
"No ideas but in things."
What ideas may be in a "red wheel/barrow"
Olson: "istorin: to find out for oneself".
WCW, Spring and All:
Either to write or comprehend poetry the words must be recognized
to be moving in a direction separate from the jostling or lack of it
which occurs within the piece.
What direction might "a red wheel/barrow" move?
WCW:
As birds' wings beat the solid air without which none could fly
so words affirm reality by their flight.
"No ideas but in things"--"to find out for oneself"--"to be
moving in a direction separate . . .from the piece"--"words affirm
reality by their flight".
To read may be an act of the imagination that affirms the reality
of the poem.
To "find out for oneself", Olson's definition of history--which
WCW does in In the American Grain.
WCW: What difference is it whether Make the words or take the
words. It makes no difference whatever.
Pascal: It is not the elements which are new, but the order of
their arrangement.
The rain water glazing the red wheel barrow. Think of how often
in WCW water is on what he sees--and how often each day as a dcotor he
washed his hands--how seeing and touch in WCW are interelated, yet he is
not interested in "holding on to" things:
From The Descent of Winter:
I make really very little money.
What of it?
I prefer the grass with the rain on it
the short grass before my headlights
when I am turning the car--
a degenerate trait, no doubt.
It would ruin England.
For proof look up,
And read
Where thou art
--Ronald Johnson, Radi Os
to open & to find out, to affirm reality
& imagination
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 03:06:51 -0700
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From: Ron Silliman <rsillima@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Aug 1996 to 20 Aug 1996
Dear Libbie,
I would suspect that the Bancroft Library on the UC campus would have
whatever "official" records there might be. Duncan was the poetry
consultant to the rare books collection there (which is how they got
some of those great Spicer letter/newspapers, for example). The fellow
who actually coordinated it, Richard Baker, old MBA grad out of
Harvard, went on to become Richard Baker-roshi, head of the SF Zen
Center for many years, now somewhere in the southwest I believe. I
doubt he did much in the way of archival stuff -- that's not his way.
I was 18 at the time, basically unaware of the literary politics of the
occasion (so that when Louis Simpson quit his job at UC and went public
in the press with how that event showed that there was no place for his
kind of writing in the Bay Area, it came as a shock to read this in the
Chronicle--maybe if Joyce Jenkins had been around in those days). I was
challenged by the awesome price (which was something like $40 for the
whole conference), so hung out around events more than at them. A poet
I was hanging out with, Paul X (later Xavier), had some success
seducing the best mind of a certain generation, so we got to go to
several parties that seemed to be a very fluid extension of the event
itself. It's those parties that stand out more now in my memory than
any individual event, other than sitting on the stage for Ginsberg's
reading which was packed to the rafters. I was surprised (for I was
very new to this -- it may have been the first "major" reading I'd ever
attended) that he read "new" work (to me at least) rather than the
classics of eight and nine years earlier.
But the scandal of the Olson reading or the way in which Spicer was
obviously ill at his reading (later reported in some depth in El Corno
Emplumado, an excellent little mag out of Mexico City then edited by
Margaret Randell and her husband) were lost on me. I sorta knew who
Olson was, but had never heard of Spicer. I didn't discover Zukofsky
until PBS did the TV show on him in 1966.
Had that event occurred one year later, it would have been a completely
different one for me. Such is the narrative of actual events...
Ron Silliman
rsillima@ix.netcom.com
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:54:52 -0400
>From: Libbie Rifkin <lr22@CORNELL.EDU>
>Subject: Berkeley 1965
>
>Does anyone know whether there are "official" records of the
>proceedings of the Berkeley Poetry Conference of 1965? I've got the
>published transcript of Olson's speech, several anecdotal
>references from Ted Berrigan, and the usual mentions in literary
>historical accounts. Could anyone direct me to more material on the
>event? Perhaps there are people on the list who were there who would
like to share their experiences?
>
>I'm interested in the tenor of the event as a whole--just how
Zeitgeist-y it actually felt. I'm
>also particularly interested in the way Olson's speech was received,
in whether and how Zukofsky (in his absence) played a role, and in Ed
Dorn's talk on dead poets.
>
>Any info would be great. Feel free to backchannel if this doesn't seem
>fit for group discussion.
>Libbie
>
>------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 06:12:35 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Pierre Joris <joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: nice one, bob
This week's issue of the national left-wing French weekly "Le Nouvel
Observateur" has a 3-page spread on Bob Holman, subtitled "With the
weapons of the enemy," doing a decent job of explaining the Nuyorican
Poets Cafe, the "US of P" & Mouth Almighty, the cd venture. Nice photo,
too. Plus an insert on Steve Cannon, "the angel of the Lower Eastside."
Same issue has Regis Debray interviewing Benigno, one of the two
survivors of the Che's Bolivian guerrilla -- both rather sour on Fidel,
to say the least. -- Pierre
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:13:26 BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ira Lightman <I.Lightman@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Stockhausen in New York
Hi folks,
As someone who's posted often to this
list about the poetics I think are
derivable from Stockhausen rather than
his contemporary Cage, here's a news
flash one-off (I won't do it again!)
ATTENTION NEW YORK STOCKHAUSEN FANS
From midnight August 22 until 5:00 am
August 23, WKCR-FM New York 89.9
will present the music of Karlheinz
Stockhausen for 29 uninterrupted hours
in celebration of his 68th birthday.
We will broadcast lengthy pieces such
as Hymnen, Kurzwellen, Sternklang
and Stimmung that regular programming
schedules do not permit etc. E-mail
mbm16@columbia.edu for info....
... transcribed from Stockhausen home
page.
Recommended!
Ira Lightman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 07:35:35 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:00:47 -0400 from
<mboughn@CHASS.UTORONTO.CA>
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:00:47 -0400 Michael Boughn said:
>I think this is the final word on the damned poem, then--the
>wheelbarrow is a symbol for Shakespeare.
Subtly drawing on the famous "graveside wheelbarrow" scene in Hamlet,
when the Danish prince addresses the departed Yorick:
Alas, poor Yorick, I knew thee well!
Excellent spark, hale fellow and well met,
Now gone fore'er into the noodling dark
'Bysm--"
[Gravedigger whacks Hamlet behind the knees
with red wheelbarrow]
--what ho! Goes there I say! What,
Thou brutish sodman, ho!
Digger: M'lord, methought thy words so fitting
for yon hole, I'd aid thee with a bump, right into it.
Hamlet: Not yet unto the breach, my friend! [etc.]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 07:56:25 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:39:48 GMT+1200 from
<t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:39:48 GMT+1200 Tony Green said:
>There are no things. The things are in the place where
>the words are heard as saying something
> to do with
>some things.
Don't these 2 sentences contradict each other?
>
>The "intention" is unknowable; the
>various effects are all you can get.
> How
> the rhetoric results in the read effects is
>a matter for attention -- even though these
>effects are particular to this one piece.
>
> It's the only way to understand what happens to
> the reader as the reader reads.
>
>The "intention" comes down to
> the varied possibilities opened
> by the text.
Is this the standard way of reading poems now? Seems kind of self-
limiting, despite the way it tries to make the text omni-vocal, depending
on whatever the reader brings to it (SO MUCH DEPENDS!) But I would
think that in order to appreciate all the "effects" of a poem, you'd
want to try to hear from the author's place - from the motives &
communications & craft background from which the author is coming.
All the things that give you an approximation of intention, where
the poet is moving. I agree with Dave Chirot that this is also
limiting, that the words take off from both writer & listener in
a new direction - but I think "where it's coming from" is also
important. Looks like three large areas have been outlined:
the author's intentions; the direction of the poem itself; &
the varied responses it creates in the reader.
- HG
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:10:23 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:27:48 -0700 from <bowering@SFU.CA>
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:27:48 -0700 George Bowering said:
> the author may be trying to say
>>about a dozen things at the same time. & sealing that in writing is not
>>so easy, may take some trying.
>
>Maybe you are almost at something there; but I still cannot help but see a
>patronising attitude in remarks about what the author is "trying" to say.
>As if the critic or teacher knows more than the author, and the author is
>putting up a good effort. There there, nice try, little fellow. I like to
>see an author that really tries.
Is it patronizing to assume an effort at something difficult & extremely
hard to achieve? I think the reverse is true. Of course, if you put it
in the imaginary context of a critic who then sets out to "explain"
in a patronizing way what the author was trying to say, you're right.
But I think it's taken for granted an explication is kind of a prose
trot laying out in boring detail what the poem puts together in a
miraculous conjunction like an elegant theorem which leads on & on
beyond explications. & the elegance of the theorem is precisely
in the tenuous balance the writer achieves by TRYING to say many
things at once in a flying formation.
All said, however, I repeat what I said before also: you're right,
"what the author is trying to say" is a terrible cliche which echoes
down through ages of high school english classes. - Henry Gould
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:23:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stockhausen in New York
In-Reply-To: <ECS9608211226A@smtp.uea.ac.uk>
A still-Grateful Deadhead exiled from NY and its radio reach asks
wistfully: is anybody going to be taping this? Backchannel me and we can
work out a handsome reward.
Hope is the thing with feathers,
Gwyn McVay
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:19:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: conference fwd
In message <960820233713_461620826@emout19.mail.aol.com> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> Maria-
> Is that the same M. Waller who taught us Dante at Amherst?
>
> WLK888
yeah, i think so; she went back and did film studies at some UC school, and then
became a women's film studies person. teresa di lauretis started out as an
italianist too.
md
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:23:42 +0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: Re: imagination affirms reality
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960821023247.23210L-100000@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
red wheelbarrow is full of plums, plunging upon a moth
how much depends on
the pink church!
no one to drive the car
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:31:59 +0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Schuchat <schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96082107500261@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
there's nothing sentimental about a machine
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:46:48 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: imagination affirms reality
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.960821212221.4049A-100000@arc> UB Poetics discussion
group writes:
> red wheelbarrow is full of plums, plunging upon a moth
>
> how much depends on
> the pink church!
>
> no one to drive the car
I will I will;
how pink was my crutch
how red my barrow
you died for my touch
i will die for thee tomarrow.
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:00:39 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:31:59 +0800 from
<schuchat@ARC.ARC.ORG.TW>
>there's nothing sentimental about a machine
I'm a little sentimental about my typewriter, a green one-of-a-kind (screw-up)
Sears Constellation - & the feeling's mutual.
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:38:09 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: Re: sentimental
Re: sentimental
. . . but "since the world is hollow, and dollie's stuffed with
sawdust," I really do not think we had better expose our feelings . . .
Emily Dickinson (to her brother Austin, 1851).
--dbc
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:50:58 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: August by Dan Bouchard
Ange Mlinko's magazine Compound Eye has dedicated its most recent issue
(#10) to a long poem by Dan Bouchard, called "August." It is a very good
look at Boston, and as I read it I was reminded of the work of such poets
as Charles Reznikoff, Frank O'Hara, Robert Lowell, Beverly Dahlen, the list
could go on quite a while, but what are influences anyway? Ghosts? Do you
believe in ghosts? Like Ange, Dan pays close attention to what's going on,
to what he knows, and how to make it all go together. The poem's nine pages
(fifteen sections), this is section twelve:
Muffled shouts of neighbors
Boston is dank
and dirty like a drained fish tank
Skateboard kids learn
their skateboard skill.
Boylston Street at five.
Someday anthropologists will discover the car alarm
and realize how ridiculous we are,
but they will note seeing-eye dogs
and know how ingenious we could be.
Stability or engineering
erring
The suitability street corner
of time
A place set
The dinner on the table
Ange is moving to Providence shortly, so probably the Compound Eye address
(52 Park St, Somerville MA 02143) isn't durable. You can email me at
jdavis@panix.com or Ange at Ange_Mlinko@pws.com or Dan at
Daniel_Bouchard@hmco.com if you're interested in getting a copy.
Okay!
Jordan
Jordan Davis
46 E 7 # 10
NYC 10003
jdavis@panix.com "the brat guts aesthetic"
--Bob Perelman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:39:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wendy McClure <Wend0la@AOL.COM>
Subject: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
...if everyone can stand just a bit more tugging on the poetry slam thread
(albeit hastily knotted to the teaching thread)...
>>i find mself asking, to what do we owe such unmitigated
>>bravery?..."
> Umitigated bravery is easy when your preaching to the
>converted. An audience at a slam could not be more converted. It's easy
>to read some witty verse deriding the state of society to a group of
>sympathizers but take that same poem out onto the street corner with a
>megaphone and see where the bravery lies. When this starts happening, that
>is when it will get interesting.
>
>cf
--just thinking about "unmitigated bravery" and "sympathizers," and also the
extent to which confrontation figures into the currency of poetry slams
--then to follow the notion of bravery (unmitigated and otherwise) amidst the
already-converted, then to the unconverted... well, we might find the
unconverted or the unsympathetic out on the street (as cf put it) but I
couldn't help thinking of the classroom as well --not that I'm at all
comfortable with the view of teaching poetry as missionary work but in my
experience the feeling's been inevitable sometimes. While I'm all for the
possibilities of slams, think they're a blast to attend, eagerly await
evolving variations on the slam (as I've seen mentioned here) to show up in
Chicago, any recs. anyone? ...still, I've noticed the double-standard a lot
of students reveal when it comes to the reception of slam poetry and their
receptiveness in the classroom --and the poetry I'm thinking of here is not
so much the standard Norton stuff (from which slams provide a nice relief)
but language and post-language and experimental work, in short, stuff which I
consider in their issues and procedures to be confrontational --it seems a
lot of the same students who go for the aggressive confrontation of slam
poetry are the ones most resistant (or maybe not, maybe just the first ones
to AGRESSIVELY voice their opinions, or else remain, like,
passive-aggressively silent?) --or worse, they revert to easy dismissals (of
pretentiousness, etc), for which I don't think slams are entirely
responsible but I suspect in some instances tend to reinforce... anyway,
hoping this is just an initial reaction on the students' part; when I've
taught I've tried to put on a good show and likely have a performers' ego...
--WM (I've seen people sign w/ quotes so here's one re: the WCW disc.):
"I know my chicken,
you've got to know your
chicken."
--Cibo
Matto
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:53:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joseph Lease <lease@HUSC.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: August by Dan Bouchard
In-Reply-To: <v0153050aae40d00a1ce4@[166.84.199.56]>
Re: Jordan on August by Dan Bouchard
--I think it's an extremely strong poem, very sharp with perception and
rhythm--
--everyone should read it--
All Best,
Joseph
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:25:18 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
wendy mcclure writes:
>
> --just thinking about "unmitigated bravery" and "sympathizers," and also the
> extent to which confrontation figures into the currency of poetry slams
> --then to follow the notion of bravery (unmitigated and otherwise) amidst the
> already-converted, then to the unconverted... well, we might find the
> unconverted or the unsympathetic out on the street (as cf put it) but I
> couldn't help thinking of the classroom as well --not that I'm at all
> comfortable with the view of teaching poetry as missionary work but in my
> experience the feeling's been inevitable sometimes. While I'm all for the
> possibilities of slams, think they're a blast to attend, eagerly await
> evolving variations on the slam (as I've seen mentioned here) to show up in
> Chicago, any recs. anyone? ...still, I've noticed the double-standard a lot
> of students reveal when it comes to the reception of slam poetry and their
> receptiveness in the classroom --and the poetry I'm thinking of here is not
> so much the standard Norton stuff (from which slams provide a nice relief)
> but language and post-language and experimental work, in short, stuff which I
> consider in their issues and procedures to be confrontational --it seems a
> lot of the same students who go for the aggressive confrontation of slam
> poetry are the ones most resistant (or maybe not, maybe just the first ones
> to AGRESSIVELY voice their opinions, or else remain, like,
> passive-aggressively silent?) --or worse, they revert to easy dismissals (of
> pretentiousness, etc), for which I don't think slams are entirely
> responsible but I suspect in some instances tend to reinforce... anyway,
> hoping this is just an initial reaction on the students' part; when I've
> taught I've tried to put on a good show and likely have a performers' ego...
>
interesting thots. i used to have the same problem w/ resistance to langpo" in
the class room etc., and don't know why it's changed, maybe because i tend to
teach "women language poets" which gives a graspable ideological handle for why
language must be challenged from the ground up; or maybe it's cuz i'm teaching
more advanced undergrads for the most part. a lot of my students just like
anything oppositional, so long as they understand the terms of the
oppositionality. also, i teach folks like tracie morris and ntozake shange, who
are sort of "inbetween" cases, in that they definitely defamiliarize what
students have come to expect of "poetic language," and are challenging to listen
as performers, but also have some discernible oratorical and vernacular
tradition that bridge the gap between the wholly unfamiliar and the verbal
simplicity of much "people's" poetry" and middlebrow stuff like frost, rich and
sexton. also frank o'hara. some find his "cliquishness" to be "elitist"
(minnesotans' favorite putdown) while others find it liberating to see what
poetry can be and what constitutes legitimate material for poetic content.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:25:58 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
& the elegance of the theorem is precisely
>in the tenuous balance the writer achieves by TRYING to say many
>things at once in a flying formation.
. - Henry Gould
I guess we just have differing notions of where poems come from. I dont
feel as if a poem is the evidence of something I am trying to say. In fact,
during the composition of such a thing, I am not aware of my trying to say
something; rather, I am trying to hear something, and get something down.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:27:20 -0700
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
>>there's nothing sentimental about a machine
>
>I'm a little sentimental about my typewriter, a green one-of-a-kind (screw-up)
>Sears Constellation - & the feeling's mutual.
Your typewriter doesnt have any feeling for you; it just thinks it has.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:26:35 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:25:58 -0700 from <bowering@SFU.CA>
On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:25:58 -0700 George Bowering said:
>I guess we just have differing notions of where poems come from. I dont
>feel as if a poem is the evidence of something I am trying to say. In fact,
>during the composition of such a thing, I am not aware of my trying to say
>something; rather, I am trying to hear something, and get something down.
At least we're both trying. Probably very trying. - HG
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:00:15 GMT+1200
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Scandalous Olson at Berkeley?
Dear Ron,
the position of eye-witness is shown to be what it is by
your comment on the Berkeley Poetry Conference: dependent on the
preparedness of the eye-witness.
Wystan gave me a copy of the original printing of the Olson reading,
one that he had found in San Francisco in the 70's. Innocently, I
had not realised -- until it was mentioned by you -- that there
was any scandal attached to it. Far far from the action I had
assumed that it was understood at the time and at the place.
It seemed to me to raise the question of what was the poem and
what was the reading, where to draw the line. Was it the whole
performance of the poet live on the platform. The kind of
ruminating thought and the writing of poems in Olson's
practice seemed to converge there. The cries of "read the
poem" etc from audience seemed to speak to a confusion
about what the condition of making poetry was, extending
as it did there to a long improvisation, which from time to
time included the occasional reading of already written and
printed products of this process. (Criticised and revised as
a process in the Beloit lectures.) That was scandalous?
Although it does not coincide with practices of quertzblatz poetry of
the later 70s and 80s, which appeared to prefer constructed texts to
improvisation, does this practice of Olson's (as I understood it)
seem to be scandalous anymore? To whom was it scandalous in 1965?
Was it scandalous that the improvisations were critical and in a
broad sense philosophical and sometimes commenting on politics and
not in verse form, therefore "not poetry"? Would it be scandalous to
the slammers?
best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:03:07 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
and he had a shampoo too, that's what the water is doing in the poem
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:11:13 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
Wendy writes
"...still, I've noticed the double-standard a lot
of students reveal when it comes to the reception of slam poetry and their
receptiveness in the classroom --and the poetry I'm thinking of here is not
so much the standard Norton stuff (from which slams provide a nice relief)
but language and post-language and experimental work, in short, stuff which I
consider in their issues and procedures to be confrontational --it seems a
lot of the same students who go for the aggressive confrontation of slam
poetry are the ones most resistant (or maybe not, maybe just the first ones
to AGRESSIVELY voice their opinions, or else remain, like,
passive-aggressively silent?) --or worse, they revert to easy dismissals (of
pretentiousness, etc), for which I don't think slams are entirely
responsible but I suspect in some instances tend to reinforce..."
I think this is pretty straightforward. Following on the heels of the
thread concerning red wheelbarrows and even the reference to the rap of
Snap! it follows that the majority of teaching when it comes to the
introduction of poetry in the United States at a young age comes through
the filter of "this is what the poet is trying to say" and "this is the
coding necessary to understand that poem". Both of these statements set in
place the mindset and world view for both rap and slam poetry. Rap / slam
has as one of its defining attributes an active hostility to the notion of
coding. The defining attribute is IMHO narrative and any poem which
subverts or too easily confuses the narrative thrust is suspect and falls
beyond the pale for the genre of rap / slam.
The methodology of "this is what the poet is trying to say" and "this is
the coding necessary to understand that poem" is disempowering to the
reader and serves as the political springboard for rap / slam which has as
its concern the destruction of this disempowerment. The case 'may' be
accurately represented that once a child has gotten to the point where they
are empowered with language and feeling 'in control' poetry is introduced
in a manner which "disempowers" them by delegating control of the coding
process to the authority figure of the teacher.
Crude rhyming and inelegant wordplay are quite often the 'language' point
used to support the 'political' point of empowerment and releasing of rage
because this complex serves as antidote to the aforementioned methodology.
The points of empowerment follow closely the narrative thrust because it is
neccessary to show that "you understand what's going on" despite assurances
from the teacher (poetry), politician (society), preacher (spirituality),
that "you don't know what's going on" unless you are given the key (i.e.
coding). It follows as well that rhyming and alliteration, etc. are the
tools employed because it is absolutely necessary that the tools of the
oppressor - subjugation, rhyme, alliteration et al. be used to defeat those
who would disempower 'you'.
Given this reading, IMHO, it makes perfect sense why langpo is received
with hostility within the genre / world view of rap / slam.
yours until we bleed,
cf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:17:23 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
Henry, Re things and no things in red weel barrow poem(s) No
contradiction, maybe a little paradox. The poem, is full and
empty, made of words and spaces, not of things. The "things" are what
you put into an image you make reading the poems. Even those are not
things in any very secure sense. This is further proof of the
difficulty of speaking adequately about representations, mediation
and/or figuration.
One way to handle that is to have regard both for the process of
making a representation and the process of "reading" one, trying to
maintain what clarity one can all the way. This is not made easier by
using the term "things", but harder, as this exchange shows all too clearly.
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:35:36 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
Henry, some more: "Is this standard way of reading poems now?"
---?@#%ed if I know. (How would I know, I don't read poems for a
living? " Que scais-je? " with a cedilla.)
My business with this is
the common problem in the arts,
representation". What is the common
understanding then of reading/writing,
it is not moving through text?
t is not surprising that the figure of a "writer"
occurs to the reader
as a centre for coherence of text, but the "writer"
is limited to being a figure appearing to the reader.
Isn't that so? Dr Williams cannot
cure you of uncertainty as to the meaning of the text, I suppose.
But isn't it also the case that the "reader" is also a similar
"figure", not a single centered "I", rather something called into existence
by the text. Coping with the text, or not, is, in that case, a matter
of how effectively you can be the necessary kind of "reader" figure
to read that text.
This is how I figure it, but I suppose this is a complicated kind of
answer for e-mail. And subject to really too many unanswered
questions.
best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:48:07 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: chickens
Hey! I thought that was Bob Dole's job, trashin teachers . . .
A teacher can also teach you "to find out for yourself".
It is not they duty to complete the work,
nor art thou free to desist from it.
Love work, hate mastery.
--Rabbinical sayings
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:53:07 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
George, "hearing something" and "getting it down" squares with my
understanding of what goes on. I believe there is a confusion about
purposes emerging (Henry's confusion, not yours, needless to say).
There is a certain satisfaction in philosophically analytical writing
in applying rhetoric to getting an argument made effectively. Reading
that writing that does that, one asks all the time about the
implications for an argument of what is being said, the significance
and multiplicities and ambiguities of "words" meanign of
words used as "counters" or "terms.
The poetries that aim to set down language (thought?) as it occurs
are not usually so concerned with words as terms in an argument.
Trying to read them as if they were, and taking the prose of analytical
argument and communication as standard and universal produces Henry's
sense that WCW in red wheel things has cunningly compressed a lot of
argumentation or argumentative thinking.
Hi, Henry are you still there? best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:00:38 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Quartermain <Quarterm@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: the well-read barrow yet again
At 03:27 PM 8/20/96 EDT, Henry wrote:
> in a poem, like other forms
>of communication, but sealed in writing, the author may be trying to say
>about a dozen things at the same time. & sealing that in writing is not
>so easy, may take some trying. Especially if you're trying to say things
>that are not so obvious,
I may have missed a few posts on this, since this, Henry, but I think your
phrasing here sure opens a can of worms.
1. I'm not at all persuaded that a poem is a "form of communication," -- or
rather, I'm not at all sure what exactly "communication" might mean when it
comes to poems -- not, I'd say, the sort of instrumental language of
"Doctor, I get a pain just here when I put my left elbow in my Mouth" kind
of thing, nor even that of "The whites have slaughtered the Indians" (not
that anyone here, I know, has been suggesting this is the "theme" of that
Indian Barrow). A poem is a machine made of words, I thought. Perhaps in
the sense of Hamlet, to Ophelia, "Yours, whilst this machine is to him, Hamlet."
2. Ditto re "sealed in writing." This suggests, does it not, some sort of
immutability to a "message" or "content" that the poem somehow, hmmm,
"contains"? Or does "sealed" mean "hermetically" and therefore
"inaccessibly" sealed?
3. My own reading practice involves -- at least in part and so far as I am
able without being utterly pedantic about it (whatever pedantic means here
-- probably means "until I can't be bothered any more") -- an attempt to
"historicize" the text: for instance (though this is clearly a childish and
utterly simplistic example) was "red" associated with revolution or with
communism in 1921 when WCW wrote the poem (we all know the answer to that
one, of course)? This is important to me because it's self-evident to me
that I know "more" than the poet knew -- by "more" here I mean something as
simple as "what the poet did not [and perhaps could not] know," and
sometimes we (I) need to rescue the poem from our knowledge. The corollary
is obvious: the poet knew "more" than I do..
At the same time, though, my own response when I read the poem -- especially
but not only for the first time -- may or may not have anything to do with
the actual compositional circumstance and history of the poem: the words say
what they say. The first time I read any Jabes, for instance, I had no idea
AT ALL who he was, thought he was possibly Spanish or even Biblical. And
that image of him still sticks, willynilly, when I think of him / his work.
And what then is getting "communicated"? It seems to me that when Bruce
Andrews writes, as a complete poem, "lost & found", he shows with great
exactitude how what is "communicated" depends on the context of the
hearer/reader as well as of the utterer/writer: meaning depends on context,
I think Maria Damon said on another thread not too long ago, and it sure as
sure doesn't exist "out there" somewhere, all us poor folks scrambling round
to find out what it is so we don't get left out in the cold when gift-giving
time comes round.
But of course, what I say is too simple anyway. Henry, or should I say Mike
Boughn?, you opened up an inexhaustible can of worms.
------
This post may be a little heavy-duty I guess for the great delights I've
seen in this thread so far, but I don't apologise for that.
Peter
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Peter Quartermain
128 East 23rd Avenue
Vancouver
B.C.
Canada V5V 1X2
Voice and fax: 604 876 8061
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:43:50 -0900
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: David Benedetti <dbenedet@UNM.EDU>
Subject: So much depends
So many adult diapers
upon the red wheelbarrow
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:12:38 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: one block over
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:44:34 -0700
>From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
>Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
>
>>Besides it's obvious as a doctor, Williams, with that red and white,
>>was really thinking about red and white blood corpuscles.
>
>>Tony Green,
>
>
>No, no, no. You will remember back before you and I were born, barbers were
>also surgeons--hence the white and red barber's pole. Williams the doctor
>was thinking about getting a haircut, and came upon this poem. The barber
>always asked him how he wanted the sides, and you have seen pictures of
>WCW. He always said, "Oh, bare," which said backward is of course "barrow."
someplace in the neighborhood of this thread belongs Kenneth Koch's story of
doing a mini-residency somewhere, and attending a lecture, about his work,
in which the professor carefully explicated "Permanently" to his students:
the noun representing Christ, the adjective the Holy Ghost (or whatever); & etc.
others might have heard the story more recently and be able to tell it better.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:12:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: Tangents R Us
Ron (S) wrote:
> Duncan was the poetry
>consultant to the rare books collection there (which is how they got
>some of those great Spicer letter/newspapers, for example). The fellow
>who actually coordinated it, Richard Baker, old MBA grad out of
>Harvard, went on to become Richard Baker-roshi, head of the SF Zen
>Center for many years, now somewhere in the southwest I believe. I
>doubt he did much in the way of archival stuff -- that's not his way.
does anyone actually know what SW spot Baker-roshi is actually in?
"just this this"
Tenney
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:12:50 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: my cat Geoffrey
Peter Q wrote:
>1. I'm not at all persuaded that a poem is a "form of communication," -- or
>rather, I'm not at all sure what exactly "communication" might mean when it
>comes to poems --
re which see a great essay, Hartman's "IA Richards and the Dream of
Communication" (in /The Fate of Reading/? or /Beyond Formalism/?)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:39:23 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@CHASS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: my cat Geoffrey
In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960821231351.4577e982@mail.azstarnet.com> from "Tenney
Nathanson" at Aug 21, 96 11:12:50 pm
> Peter Q wrote:
>
> >1. I'm not at all persuaded that a poem is a "form of communication," -- or
> >rather, I'm not at all sure what exactly "communication" might mean when it
> >comes to poems --
>
> re which see a great essay, Hartman's "IA Richards and the Dream of
> Communication" (in /The Fate of Reading/? or /Beyond Formalism/?)
Yeah. It's in _The Fate of Reading_.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:52:44 EDT
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From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:11:13 -0800 from <filch@POBOX.COM>
On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:11:13 -0800 filch said:
>
>The methodology of "this is what the poet is trying to say" and "this is
>the coding necessary to understand that poem" is disempowering to the
>reader and serves as the political springboard for rap / slam which has as
>its concern the destruction of this disempowerment. The case 'may' be
>accurately represented that once a child has gotten to the point where they
>are empowered with language and feeling 'in control' poetry is introduced
>in a manner which "disempowers" them by delegating control of the coding
>process to the authority figure of the teacher.
There's a lot of truth to this, but it also seems one-dimensional to read
the classroom simply as a power structure and poems as power codes.
It sets up a binary "dialectic", like beats & new critics,
that makes for easy academic readings after the fact ("codes"?), with
beats & new critics completely symbiotic (where would the beats be without
their establishment foils? where would slams be without high school
english class? etc.) I remember nothing more boring, depressing &
disempowering than 9th grade english teach asking, "Well, what's the poet
trying to say here?" But then again, there's always the option to
take him or her up on the call & "try" to figure it out.
>
>coding). It follows as well that rhyming and alliteration, etc. are the
>tools employed because it is absolutely necessary that the tools of the
>oppressor - subjugation, rhyme, alliteration et al. be used to defeat those
>who would disempower 'you'.
This is ironic because a lot of the "coding" in traditional poetry that
is the most interesting is political coding, that "tries" to undermine
specific political oppressors & social repressions. They who have
ears to hear, let them hear (saith the preacher).
- Henry Gould
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:18:14 EDT
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From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:35:36 GMT+1200 from
<t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
On Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:35:36 GMT+1200 Tony Green said:
>
> My business with this is
>the common problem in the arts,
>representation". What is the common
>understanding then of reading/writing,
>it is not moving through text?
>t is not surprising that the figure of a "writer"
> occurs to the reader
>as a centre for coherence of text, but the "writer"
> is limited to being a figure appearing to the reader.
> Isn't that so? Dr Williams cannot
>cure you of uncertainty as to the meaning of the text, I suppose.
>
>But isn't it also the case that the "reader" is also a similar
>"figure", not a single centered "I", rather something called into existence
>by the text. Coping with the text, or not, is, in that case, a matter
>of how effectively you can be the necessary kind of "reader" figure
>to read that text.
This all makes a lot of sense to me. I'm one on this list well-known
for re-stating new critical truisms as though deconstruction etc. never
happened. Master-oversimplificator. But in spite of uncertainty,
I still tend to read poems on a basic level, as a practitioner. &
as a practitioner I'm moving in certain directions, drawing on past
methods & hangups & patterns, & adding new things, & I tend to read
other poets the same way - & try to see what they're doing. Mandelstam
writes about future literary studies as pursuing the "impulse" behind
the text. Maybe that's part (only part) of what he's talking about.
(It certainly isn't an autobiographical impulse he's referring to.)
- Henry Gould
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:28:39 EDT
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From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: red Indian barrow
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:53:07 GMT+1200 from
<t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
On Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:53:07 GMT+1200 Tony Green said:
>
> The poetries that aim to set down language (thought?) as it occurs
>are not usually so concerned with words as terms in an argument.
>Trying to read them as if they were, and taking the prose of analytical
>argument and communication as standard and universal produces Henry's
>sense that WCW in red wheel things has cunningly compressed a lot of
>argumentation or argumentative thinking.
>
>Hi, Henry are you still there? best
Am I still here? Why, all of us from Zircon-12 never leave our e-posts.
The fourth eyeball helps (replaceable). I don't see it as exactly
hearing something, nor as compressed argument. More like weaving or
architecture - a lot of strands that suddenly find conjunctions
that hold each other up in an artful (pseudo-argumentative) way. - HG
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:32:50 EDT
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From: henry <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: the well-read barrow yet again
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:00:38 -0700 from
<Quarterm@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:00:38 -0700 Peter Quartermain said:
>At 03:27 PM 8/20/96 EDT, Henry wrote:
>
>I may have missed a few posts on this, since this, Henry, but I think your
>phrasing here sure opens a can of worms.
well, as Shakespeare tries to tell us, "a poem, forsooth - tis but a can of
worms made of words."
>Indian Barrow). A poem is a machine made of words, I thought. Perhaps in
>the sense of Hamlet, to Ophelia, "Yours, whilst this machine is to him,
>Hamlet."
Machines can talk. Some even have feelings - just ask my typewriter.
>
>2. Ditto re "sealed in writing." This suggests, does it not, some sort of
>immutability to a "message" or "content" that the poem somehow, hmmm,
>"contains"? Or does "sealed" mean "hermetically" and therefore
>"inaccessibly" sealed?
Mandelstam: "I say again: I will liken the poem to an Egyptian ship
of the dead, in which everything necessary for life is stored."
>At the same time, though, my own response when I read the poem -- especially
>but not only for the first time -- may or may not have anything to do with
>the actual compositional circumstance and history of the poem: the words say
>what they say. The first time I read any Jabes, for instance, I had no idea
>AT ALL who he was, thought he was possibly Spanish or even Biblical. And
>that image of him still sticks, willynilly, when I think of him / his work.
I agree with you. This is what I said in a post yesterday: there's the
impulse of the poet, there's the free poem itself, there's what the reader
brings to it.
>
>And what then is getting "communicated"? It seems to me that when Bruce
>Andrews writes, as a complete poem, "lost & found", he shows with great
>exactitude how what is "communicated" depends on the context of the
>hearer/reader as well as of the utterer/writer: meaning depends on context,
That's what makes the poet's job interesting. It's why s/he has to "try"
so hard. - HG
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:12:09 -0700
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From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Scandalous Olson at Berkeley?
Tony Green wrote (in part):
> Although it does not coincide with practices of quertzblatz poetry of
> the later 70s and 80s, which appeared to prefer constructed texts to
> improvisation, does this practice of Olson's (as I understood it)
> seem to be scandalous anymore? To whom was it scandalous in 1965?
I don't know about scandalous, but I can say that it was extremely
upsetting to Robert Duncan on that occasion--he left the reading.
Rachel Loden
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:38:30 -0700
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From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
Libbie,
Ron was 18, I was 17 (and didn't know Ron, or anyone else; some things
don't change). Since I had been wrapped up in the Don Allen
anthology--to the point of having to hold it together with a rubber
band--being in rooms with these people had me completely agog. In
retrospect I can see that it was a bit of a childhood fantasy: watching
a book come to life. Unfortunately, because I *was* 17, half the time
I had no idea what I was seeing/hearing. Stuff I remember vividly
(be warned that this will have the spotty quality of real memory):
Creeley and I believe Dorn in a small classroom, and Creeley commenting
on the irony and perhaps pity of holding this event at the University
of California (this in the context of the Free Speech Movement, of
course).
Sitting right behind Bobbie Creeley in that small classroom. Why is
this as available as yesterday? Perhaps because I was in a state of
near-religious ecstasy...I mean, the actual Bobbie of _For Love_ (okay,
you can laugh). Beatrice.
Duncan sweeping around in his cape. His extremely--eccentric--reading
style. Walking from one place to another with the group, and noticing
Robin Blaser's beauty.
Ted Berrigan reading. A revelation! (Went home and ordered a mimeo,
I think, copy of _The Sonnets_, heartbreakingly eaten by insects on the
island of Oahu circa 1977.)
Lenore Kandel reading, I think at the same event? In this case not so
much the poetry, but the energy, the buzz from the breaking of language
taboos. Probably also vivid because it is a woman speaking.
The Olson reading: mostly I can just see that commanding figure. I
had no idea of the subtext, and remember being somewhat outraged by
the audience. Duncan walked out (with others?). I took notes during
all of this (and during the conference as a whole) but can only
shudder to think what sort of notes I might have taken at 17. May be
able to find these if I undertake an archaeological dig of my
notebooks.
Watching Kenneth Anger movies. This can't have been part of the event
proper, but I think a lot of poetry people were there.
And that's about it for the vivid stuff. I paid $45 at an office on
Oxford St., I think, for all this--I know it was $45 because I still
have my ticket (according to the ticket, which does specify "Berkeley
Poetry Conference [Seminars] July 12-23, 1965," there was also a
$25 option). I keep thinking that somebody might want to use this
ticket if there's ever an exhibit on the conference. Let me know.
Rachel Loden
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:48:51 -0400
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From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: "this is the coding necessary to understand that poem"
I'm not prepared to accept this subject line as a baseline for the
discussion of poetry. As Maria pointed out or quoted earlier (and I'm sure
I'm bending the meaning) there is an aesthetic judgment in every
judgment--and since we can read anything in terms of any category--for
instance, the picture of a self we get from Bruce Andrews, society in Susan
Howe, passion in Paul Muldoon--and I'm probably not prepared to accept
someone else's we, either--since anything can be read in terms of any
category, a reader, one has to decide whether to do the charitable thing
and decode the categories the writer is choosing to work in, on, through,
or whether to read the writer's work in contexts of one's own devising.
This latter choice I take it leads to that hallucinatory wheelbarrow. Does
it lead there necessarily? Or is there a set of critical selves one can
bounce among that will occasionally push one into the bumpers of the
writer's categories and then into the bonus targets of the world.
CODES AT WORK (PLAY?) HERE:
reading as pinball
wheelbarrow thread (dbc, gb, hg, tg, pq, md, cf, etc)
the "bruce problem"
"the brat guts aesthetic"
Critique of Judgment
Isenberg, Mothersill
Which is to say, you read, you have taste, a taste anyway, and you argue
for it. One does. Does it preexist, does it develop, bleagh. Not the issue.
The issue is that it is there, one participates in one's own taste, even
when one rejects bland unexamined instances of other peoples' taste or
'sensibility'. So. One is open to evaluation on the terms of all categories
at all times. That is, one is available to be read by anybody always
already cough. One may wish to resist, to preserve the integrity of that
reading through closing gestures, error, erasure, hermeticism, ironic
cuteness/ugliness, but this may prove to be paranoia. What is at stake in
any reading, what power is there, why am I for one struggling so much to
achieve it/dismantle it. I suppose asking questions is the best way to
centralize power. Was Kurt Cobain a practitioner of the New Sentence? Are
you still reading. Is that a question it is important to ask? Shall we
overpraise the present and be done with it. Am I grateful for the
simultaneous expansion of vocabulary and relaxation of the sentence. Yes. I
am grateful for the opportunity to use any word I hear in any sort of
sentence I want to write. Am I even more grateful for the words I like
best, and the opportunity not to finish my sentences. Yes I am even more
grateful. Why. Because those give me more. That is, the cadence, the
development of the cadence. Grr. Does one feel the urge to be 'compulsively
readable'. Break it up. Does one feel the urge to ride a power mower. Oar
hour. Does one have to include more or less than is expected. Does one have
to include exactly as much as expected. Who is expecting? Blush. No, no
news. But what if there were. Would it be verboten, aesthetically,
intellectually? What part of the bandwidth permits that news its
nonstatistical centrality. This does seem a live issue. I am not asking.
Pause.
Jordan
Jordan Davis
46 E 7 # 10
NYC 10003
jdavis@panix.com
and moved to the burbs, where we eat wild blueberries every
night and shoot raccoons.
--Ange Mlinko
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:56:37 -0400
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From: Jonathan A Levin <jal17@COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96082208151917@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
A few thoughts on coding:
1) Is rap really that transparent? I often find myself smiling at my
ignorance as I listen to it. Coding doesn't strike me as uniquely a tool
of power in that sense. Think, too, of the codedness of early Stein,
about which Catherine Stimpson has written well.
2) Probably the experience that got me into this mess was "decoding"
poems (and novels) in high school. I remember Kubla Khan in particular:
we had a field day. Of course, I had a good teacher, and that makes all
the difference. But the message was unmistakeably, there's more here than
meets the eye. He--Mr. Moceri, for the record, aka Mr. Mo, of Parkway
North Senior High, Creve Coeur, MO--had a way of just reading the poem
aloud that nudged us to come to terms with what more might in fact be
there.
So, framing my answer in good Jeopardy fashion, isn't there a
difference between the impetus to decode (which, it seems to me, we have
to do all the time, in life and in poems) and the spirit in which we go
about our decoding (roughly, liberally or restrictively)?
Best to all--
Jonathan Levin
By the way: went to one slam about four or five years ago and had a
wonderful time--it made more of an impression on me than most readings.
Maggie Estep won (at the Nuyorican), deservedly. It was excellent
theatre. I have to admit, I don't absorb poetry terribly well at
readings, but I remember an astonishing amount of poetry from that night,
including one introductory piece (out of competition) that began, roughly,
The lions at the New York Public Library roar at me when I walk by them.
Anybody know who/what that was? What was so striking was the way this
relatively small guy (as I remember him, at least) let loose this, well,
roar of words. I was convinced, immediately, that these folks were
restoring something vital.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:40:25 -0500
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From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
jlevin writes:
> A few thoughts on coding:
>
> 1) Is rap really that transparent? I often find myself smiling at my
> ignorance as I listen to it. Coding doesn't strike me as uniquely a tool
> of power in that sense. Think, too, of the codedness of early Stein,
> about which Catherine Stimpson has written well.
i agree; rap is often delivered at a speed and with vernacular inflections that
act as real defamiliarizations (for me anyway) of a language i usually think i
know. and isn't "defamiliarization" an old r-formalist hobby horse
characteristic of "literary"/poetic language? sometimes its messages appear to
be straightforward expressions of anger (fuck tha police etc) but there's much
more to it than that, lots of intertextuality (sampling) that presumes a deep
insider knowledge etc...
md
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:44:43 -0800
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From: Julia Stein <jstein@LAEDU.LALC.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 20 Aug 1996 to 21 Aug 1996
> Libbie asks re the 1965 Berkeley poetry conference,
Perhaps there are people on the list who were there who would
>like to share their experiences?
>>
>I was at the Berkeley poetry conference as an eighteen year old. It was also
>my first poetry reading, first poetry conference, etc. It was right after I
>got arrested at Free Speech Movement in December so the spring had a certain
>magical feeling as the whole campus was changing. It seemed like the whole
>universe was changing quickly--a very wacky and wonderful feeling of the
>universe opening up.
The poetry conference fit right in. I remember the Ginsberg reading was
packed. I mean packed. Ginsberg read this incredible poem about just being
crowned king of May in Prague by the Czech students, then getting arrested
by the Czech police, thrown onto to plane & thrown out of the country. He
was yelling & angry & tremendous. His reading was part of the
zeitgeist--here at Berkeley we students had stood up & gotten arrested. And
in Czechoslovakia the Czech students had also stood up & had to face their
police. Ginsberg's reading was a preview of coming attractions.
I also heard Lenore Kendale--she was the only woman poet I remember. I was
fascinated to hear her read in a poem about washing dishes! Terrific. I
hadn't read any woman poets before. Now here was a live woman poet!
Inspring!
I heard Olsen read--is that what you meant by Olsen's speech? I didn't know
who he was--just knew about the beats.He was a Big Man. He read & drank
from a bottle of whiskey in one of the auditoriums. It was shocking and
wonderful, as you weren't supposed to drink whiskey in a classroom. He kept
on reading & drinking. He got drunk. We in the audience loved it. A little
dean in a suit came in, to try to stop the reading. We in the audience were
against him & with the Big Drunken Poet. The little dean (I called him a
deanlet) went up the the Big Poet & tried to get him to stop. We in the
audience booed. The little dean slunk away in deafeat. We in the audience
felt: another victory for students! Olsen kept reading and drinking. It
was a wonderful experience--oh yes, it fit right into the zeitgest.
Bye,
Julie
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:50:56 -0400
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Chax e-mail?
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96082208450993@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Hey poetics people,
Please indulge one who's been ill--can Charles Alexander still be reached
at chax@mtn.org, or does he have a new e-address to go with his "real"
address in spatial "reality"?
Gwyn McVay
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:03:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: william marsh <wmarsh@NUNIC.NU.EDU>
Subject: Re: argument
> The poetries that aim to set down language (thought?) as it occurs
>are not usually so concerned with words as terms in an argument.
>Trying to read them as if they were, and taking the prose of analytical
>argument and communication as standard and universal produces Henry's
>sense that WCW in red wheel things has cunningly compressed a lot of
>argumentation or argumentative thinking.
Tony and others -- this particular strain (poetry and argument) has always
interested me. I'm wondering to what extent a poem like WCW's (and much of
his work) can be read as argumentative without relying on the standards of
analytical argument and communication that otherwise might inform a reading.
To disagree a bit, i find that many of the poetries that "aim to set down
language (thought) as it occurs" are very much concerned with words as terms
in an argument. But admittedly, the nature of the argument is a bit
different, skewed from the conventional sense of how argumentative rhetoric
works. I'm thinking of the work of Lyn Hejinian and bpNichol in particular
(tho there are several other possible examples)--two strategies in writing
that i would say approach language from an argumentative angle, Hejinian's
through the logic (illogic) of association, Nichol's through paragrammatic
play--but both "following a line" to suggest a point or several points (if
not a neatly resolved conclusion). A good reading on my part leads to a
place where i "get the argument," although i may not be able to trace its
development via conventional modes (cause/effect, etc.). So i wonder how a
statement like "all writing is argumentative" would be met and challenged.
For me it would be helpful to expand the notion of argument to include more
than just the Aristotelian variety.
bill marsh
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:14:36 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Henry Gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: argument
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:03:23 -0700 from
<wmarsh@NUNIC.NU.EDU>
Interesting bk on this is Jonathan Kertzer, Poetic Argument
McGill-Queens U. Press, 1988. though I think he takes narrower
position than you (values poems that make some kind of real argument).
(I could be wrong - read it a long time ago!)
also think of von Hallberg's book on Olson where he talks about 1st
part of Maximus as in form of classical oration.
- Monk #12-b flat
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:41:57 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
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From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: c/od-ing, hide in plain sight
re: c/od-ing; Hide in plain sight
Not only do the words change meanings but meanings vary locally
at the same time. A final glossary, there, cannot be made of words whose
intentions are fugitive.
William S.Burroughs, Junkie
(Insofar as nobody loves my dashes anyway, I'll use regular
punctuation for the new illiterate generation.)
Jack Kerouac, Vanity of Duluoz
Gertrude Stein wrote that on first seeing camouflaged tanks,
Picasso said, It is we who made that.
There are many essays
on the problem of determing what is rock art and what is simply natural
formations and markings made by weather and chemical interactions among
minerals.
Who runs may read
--Gertrue Stein
And read
where thou art
--Ronald Johnson
--dbchirot
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:48:29 -0800
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From: filch <filch@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
I did not mean to imply that rap was transparent. Nor is slam poetry
transparent. I was directly referring to the disparaging remarks earlier
in this thread concerning "tacky rhymes" at slams as emblematic of the
genre.
The coding of rap is an extremely interesting topic. I still believe it is
distinctly different in intent than coding in langpo.
"act as real defamiliarizations (for me anyway) of a language i usually think i
know." Very good point.
>1) Is rap really that transparent? I often find myself smiling at my
>ignorance as I listen to it. Coding doesn't strike me as uniquely a tool
>of power in that sense. Think, too, of the codedness of early Stein,
>about which Catherine Stimpson has written well.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:54:09 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: argument
Instead of "argumentative," how about "didactic"?
>
>Tony and others -- this particular strain (poetry and argument) has always
>interested me. I'm wondering to what extent a poem like WCW's (and much of
>his work) can be read as argumentative without relying on the standards of
>analytical argument and communication that otherwise might inform a reading.
>To disagree a bit, i find that many of the poetries that "aim to set down
>language (thought) as it occurs" are very much concerned with words as terms
>in an argument. But admittedly, the nature of the argument is a bit
>different, skewed from the conventional sense of how argumentative rhetoric
>works. I'm thinking of the work of Lyn Hejinian and bpNichol in particular
>(tho there are several other possible examples)--two strategies in writing
>that i would say approach language from an argumentative angle, Hejinian's
>through the logic (illogic) of association, Nichol's through paragrammatic
>play--but both "following a line" to suggest a point or several points (if
>not a neatly resolved conclusion). A good reading on my part leads to a
>place where i "get the argument," although i may not be able to trace its
>development via conventional modes (cause/effect, etc.). So i wonder how a
>statement like "all writing is argumentative" would be met and challenged.
>For me it would be helpful to expand the notion of argument to include more
>than just the Aristotelian variety.
>
>bill marsh
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judy Roitman | "Glad to have
Math, University of Kansas | these copies of things
Lawrence, KS 66045 | after a while."
913-864-4630 | Larry Eigner, 1927-1996
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:56:40 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
yeah, that's just it---from one pov, it's ALL coded... one dominant
gradient in our public discourses asks us to construe meaning-making as a
process of en/decoding... part of this is a consequence (broadly) of
information technologies... you've all heard this before---'the information
is encoded, transmitted through a conduit, and emerges at the other end to
be decoded'... but to say this is to recognize, as well, the specifically
political dimension of communications apparatus... b/c the question, as a
few folks have suggested, becomes a matter of who possesses the
intelligence or counterintelligence cheat-sheet---who's doing the
en/decoding?...
nevertheless, this is a powerful means of manipulating demographics, of
transforming specific information into specific insider(-outsider)
knowledges...
what it's all about, in more dystopic terms, is constructing
audiences-markets predisposed to responding (or consuming) along certain
coordinates---political speeches, cereal boxes, poems, what have you... i
don't wish at all to naysay anybody's particular transgressive-resistance
hobbyhorse---but so long as you play primarily to this latter grid, you're
probably enjoying the interpretive fruits of a statistically-conceived
reality the likes of which one sees at work in every nook and cranny of a
vegas casino...
some of what comes out of such transactions *can* be of value, yes...
now, whether or how meaning is made is not necessarily the same thing as
persuasion... but if you persuade folks to make meaning in accordance with
an a=b rhetoric (-logic), it's likely their general response to the meaning
process itself can eventually be controlled... that is, you persuade folks
to accept thus & so *as* persuasion, however familiarizing or
defamiliarizing...
it seems to me that, in general, the performative these days seems to be
taken as itself (regardless *what's* said or acted or ____) a measure of
persuasive validity... again: elizabeth dole may only have simulated a
get-down-and-dirty-with-the-people talk, but it mattered little---the
gesture itself, by stepping outside of standard performance criteria for
convention speeches, rec'd goo-goo-eyed acclaim even by more experienced
broadcast journalists...
which i trust won't be taken as an argument against persuasive poetics as
such...
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:15:15 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: argument
re William Marsh on argumentation: yep, MORE than the Aristotelian
variety, will do for a start. Or the Cartesian variety? Argument in
Lucretius is a classic instance isn't it of an argumentational
poetry? (or so I somewhat vaguely recall).
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:06:14 GMT+1200
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tony Green <t.green@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
Organization: The University of Auckland
Subject: Re: argument
I like "didactic" in there as a possible alternative, Judy. Could you
say some more? best
Tony Green,
e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:08:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Quartermain <Quarterm@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: argument
At 10:15 AM 8/23/96 GMT+1200, Tony Green wrote
> Argument in
>Lucretius is a classic instance isn't it of an argumentational
>poetry? (or so I somewhat vaguely recall).
So's Samuel Daniel of slightly more recent date, in some of his (gasp!) sonnets.
Peter
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Peter Quartermain
128 East 23rd Avenue
Vancouver
B.C.
Canada V5V 1X2
Voice and fax: 604 876 8061
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:46:35 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
Subject: that lions poet
I think, Jonathan, you're thinking of Regie Cabeco, who does have a NY
public library poem. The issue of conception/abortion of the anterior
anteater at readings (Atrides) SOS an interesting one, and the cooing of
the glam poets does E.T. some wrong ecco the haole incandescent chyme
traduction. No, Beck takes that slack. No coding gets a strong get-go of
Anbesol, let alone that erudition. But as Plato told us, Galway's mnemonic
quicksand bellows to the world! Uh, no, he didn't. (The novel Coors there
is a 'where's waldo' Sen Sen I had listing to Raster Man, when I was
expecting -- who's expecting? -- to get the 'magic eye' of sensimilla --
which I don't cotton regularly, thank you, the farmer hearing John Godfrey
read -- inert privilege of disparaging the ether of every 90s pop
phenomenon (Subpop). I know it must have undead when Blank went solo, but
your early albums were the best, man! (ma'am))!
Please, poets, no more jokes! And no more tricks! We know them and what
they're wearing. Send in the new affects, soon!
Thank you.
Jordan Davis
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 00:56:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wendy McClure <Wend0la@AOL.COM>
Subject: slams again; symbolic chicken in the classroom
cf writes:
Rap / slam
has as one of its defining attributes an active hostility to the notion of
coding. The defining attribute is IMHO narrative and any poem which
subverts or too easily confuses the narrative thrust is suspect and falls
beyond the pale for the genre of rap / slam.
The methodology of "this is what the poet is trying to say" and "this is
the coding necessary to understand that poem" is disempowering to the
reader and serves as the political springboard for rap / slam which has as
its concern the destruction of this disempowerment. The case 'may' be
accurately represented that once a child has gotten to the point where they
are empowered with language and feeling 'in control' poetry is introduced
in a manner which "disempowers" them by delegating control of the coding
process to the authority figure of the teacher.
Crude rhyming and inelegant wordplay are quite often the 'language' point
used to support the 'political' point of empowerment and releasing of rage
because this complex serves as antidote to the aforementioned methodology.
The points of empowerment follow closely the narrative thrust because it is
neccessary to show that "you understand what's going on" despite assurances
from the teacher (poetry), politician (society), preacher (spirituality),
that "you don't know what's going on" unless you are given the key (i.e.
coding). It follows as well that rhyming and alliteration, etc. are the
tools employed because it is absolutely necessary that the tools of the
oppressor - subjugation, rhyme, alliteration et al. be used to defeat those
who would disempower 'you'.
Given this reading, IMHO, it makes perfect sense why langpo is received
with hostility within the genre / world view of rap / slam.
It does make sense. Though it's the subversion of narrative that's the
appeal to teaching langpo et al in the first place --demanding more attention
just to elements (and I mean elements: space and punctuation and alphabet, to
name a few); introducing the concept of encountering a poem as just an
experience of reading rather than extracting "meaning". I think you can
pretty much carry over the same value to rap / slam for usefulness in
emphasizing listening/voice over, say, speculating over what those damn
chickens symbolize, etc, --esp. when students intuit (see WCW thread) and
think they must, for the moment at least, adhere to a teacher's narrative
(just another in a world of competing narratives). I've always hoped that
showing students quote difficult poems unquote does a bit to mitigate the
presence of that narrative when they figure out for themselves why the author
is doing something that initially bothers them so much. I've seen the ones
that do --they become terrific readers/listeners of just about anything and
hence empowered; sometimes they remained bothered by the stuff, but in
getting it on their own terms, not defeated.
best, wm
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:43:16 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: henry gould <AP201070@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slams again; chicken in the classroom
In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:56:40 -0500 from
<amato@CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
>yeah, that's just it---from one pov, it's ALL coded... one dominant
>gradient in our public discourses asks us to construe meaning-making as a
>process of en/decoding... part of this is a consequence (broadly) of
>information technologies... you've all heard this before---'the information
>is encoded, transmitted through a conduit, and emerges at the other end to
>be decoded'... but to say this is to recognize, as well, the specifically
>political dimension of communications apparatus... b/c the question, as a
>few folks have suggested, becomes a matter of who possesses the
>intelligence or counterintelligence cheat-sheet---who's doing the
>en/decoding?...
This seems like a good description of what poetry is NOT about.
(I realize you're not saying it IS, Joe!) As I
understand it, a poem is like a cognitive "solution" to
a set of images/concepts/things-that-are-important-to-the-writer - a set
which, without the poem, don't hold together, don't "make sense", are
vague & disparate & inchoate & skemanderlous. And because that's so,
the poem contains a measure of difficulty, equal to concision. What
was that phrase of Pound's, something like dictare = condensare (to
write is to condense?). And the invention/discovery aspect of the poem,
it's newness, is also a discovery for the writer. It's super-coded;
it's not a code manipulated & programmed for a particular use.
It's not power OVER; it's verbal power per se. And verbal power
has consequences in all directions, & can't be pigeon-holed by a particular
socio-political theory. This is not to idealize or make the poem
"clean" : look at Pound's conglomerations for example. But one
can ask whether the poetry in Pound dominated by fixed ideas &
stubborn assumptions is really new, really discovering anything.
Pound is just one example. When a poem is ready to prove something
by rhetoric rather than discovery, we start to "see through" it,
it doesn't move much, it's dead. It's a speech, a code. Does this
contradict what I wrote before about the poet trying to "communicate"
something? Maybe not. The poem is what emerged from the impulse to
communicate something; it's more than the impulse, but the impulse
can't be discounted. (The urge to kill for a cause in Pound is an
impulse; to kill for glory, for the right, for the epic.) But I think
there's a disinterestedness in real poetry; not indifference, but
a specific poetic energy that achieves something as-poem, in itself.
- Henry G
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:50:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: argument
>I like "didactic" in there as a possible alternative, Judy. Could you
>say some more? best
>
>Tony Green,
>e-mail: t.green@auckland.ac.nz
Briefly, sure.
Has to do with pointing towards truth, as opposed to worrying about
methodology of establishing same. Or maybe its speaking from grounds of,
rather than establishing. Not sure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judy Roitman | "Glad to have
Math, University of Kansas | these copies of things
Lawrence, KS 66045 | after a while."
913-864-4630 | Larry Eigner, 1927-1996
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:57:18 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Libbie Rifkin <lr22@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
In-Reply-To: <321C62D6.1B6D@concentric.net>
Thanks so much to Ron Silliman, Albert Glover, Rachel Loden and Julia
Stein for your thoughts, reminiscences and research leads. I'm going to
try to make it out to Berkeley in the next couple of months to listen to
the tapes at the Bankroft, and to find out more about Robert Duncan's
work as Poetry Consultant to the collection.
Thanks for your help!
Libbie
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:53:25 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julie Marie Schmid <jschmid@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: small presses
In-Reply-To: <9608231450.AA04000@titania.math.ukans.edu>
Hi all--
I'm looking for anything and everything that has been written (articles,
manifestos, personal musings on the subject, political motivations/goals
behind the small press, economics, relationship between poetry "scene"
and small press "scene,"
whatever) about small poetry presses, rationale for founding them, or
anything written about self-publishing, and/or connections between small
press publishing and Web page publishing. I would also be interested in
hearing from anyone who has founded their own press or has published on
small presses. If you'd like, you can backchannel to
jschmid@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Thanks!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:55:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
Libbie R.
As you seem to be at Cornell, you probably know that the Berkeley '65
poetry thing was the sequel to the Vancouver '63 poetry thing, and the
precursor to the Buffalo '67 one, eh?
Lots of info about all of them at Special Collections, Simon Fraser
University in Burnaby, B.C. Charles Watts the expert there.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:10:37 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
>George Bowering added (the bit beginning "Oh yeah?"):
>>
>> > >> >> >To Charles Bernstein---
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I
>> >>never
>> >> >> >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so
>> >>dumb,
>> >> >> >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without
>> >> >>talking to
>> >> >> >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you
>>mean to
>> >> >> me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in
>>Wyoming,
>> >> >> N.Y.
>> >> >
>> >> >Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
>> >> >Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
>> >> >Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
>> >> >hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
>> >> >manual.
>> >>
>> >> Charles, how could you!? You told me she was just an intelligent
>>person you
>> >> had befriended for her quick mind! I am sending your jewelry back.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Some of us don't need trinkets to express the inexpressible, my dear
>> >--what do you call yourself--Georgette? Some of us, on a summer's
>> >eve, have the freedom of our own thoughts and need not surrender to
>> >idle jealousies. Charles may do what he wishes with his heart; I
>> >know I'll always have Peekskill, and my memories of the honeymoon
>> >suite! P.S. Keep your baubles--you may need to hock them for a few
>> >maple leaves.
>>
>> Oh yeah? Well, Charles told me a VERY interesting story about you and a
>> certain Mister Joris, which I could never repeat in public. But REALLY, did
>> you have to go to Poughkeepsie for something like that?
>
>
>Poughkeepsie! That sweet city with her dreaming spires...But no, I
>think Charles must have me mixed up with Amy Fisher in her preteen,
>pre-Buttafuoco days (Pierre's the only one who REALLY knows, and
>HE at least is too much of a gentleman to say. Aren't you Pierre?).
>I deal with all of this in my sonnet series "Snorkling the Lotus,"
>for anyone who really wants to plumb the depths of those times. "The
>past is a foreign country: they do things differently there." I
>forgive you, Charles.
>Rachel Loden
I was told personally by Ron Silliman that "Snorkling the Lotus" was about
him! Oh, I get it; you tell all your conquests that the poem was about
them. Well, some of us here in poetry-land think too much of our craft to
employ it in amatory adventures. Some of us, such as I, live a life of the
mind. What is Ron going to do when he finds out that you dalled with
Pierre, and heaven knows how many others? Ron Silliman is a sensitive man.
And he does not go around writing public poems about his affairs of the
heart.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:07:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jonathan Brannen <jbrannen@INFOLINK.MORRIS.MN.US>
Subject: NEW MARK WALLACE CHAPBOOK
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOW AVAILABLE FROM STANDING STONES PRESS
MARK WALLACE'S 27 part poem:
IN CASE OF DAMAGE TO LIFE, LIMB OR THIS ELEVATOR
(four dollars post-paid)
Standing Stones Press
7 Circle Pines
Morris, MN 56267
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MARK WALLACE
In Case of Damage to Life, Limb or This Elevator
Enthusiasm for secret doors
loses itself in the house
of redundant emphasis on the money
that wants to take over the day.
My best thoughts are ones
I stop myself from saying.
Who needs the state to censor me?
Across the courtyard huddles the empty
building of blatant charities
which knows what's not getting used to it.
Let's have our cake and eat our words,
inventing ghosts who hover in basements
uncovering useless crimes.
The world just isn't the mind
which keeps falling over the matter
of fact that wasn't there
when no one showed up.
Listening at night,
what do you hear beyond
the mangled psychodramas?
I never let myself think
in silence and the air-conditioning
of lives that go their own way.
Wind blows the pages apart.
Other Standing Stones Press Publications:
Tom Ahern, Skippy Taggart's Wife
Curt Anderson, Umbra
Dennis Barone, The Masque Resumed
Jonathan Brannen, Crunching Numbers
Gerald Burns, Probability and Fuzzy Dice
Cydney Chadwick, The Gift Horse's Mouth o.p.
Mark DuCharme, Contractng Scale
Peter Ganick, IT OR S/HE
Geof Huth, To a Small Stream of Water (or Ditch)
H.T. (Heather Thomas), Circus Freex
Stephen-Paul Martin, Crisis of Representation
Michelle Murphy, The Tongue in its Shelf
Sheila E. Murphy, Wind Topography
John Perlman, Anacoustic o.p.
Susan M. Schultz, Earthquake Dreams o.p.
Mark Wallace, In Case of Damage to Life, Limb or
This Elevator
All publications are $4.00 or any four for $12.00
(postage included).
Standing Stones Press
7 Circle Pines
Morris, MN 56267
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:37:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Susan Schultz <SSchu30844@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NEW MARK WALLACE CHAPBOOK
Dear Jonathan--I'd like to get a Mark Wallace book. Will pay as soon as my
life is straight--I tried to leave Hawaii the other night but ended up in a
10 hour delay that resulted in my being here until later today (I hope).
I'll be in Buffalo by Sept 3 at 107 14th Street, Upper, Buffalo, NY 14213.
all best, Susan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:39:43 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: william marsh <wmarsh@NUNIC.NU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chax e-mail?
At 11:50 AM 8/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey poetics people,
>
>Please indulge one who's been ill--can Charles Alexander still be reached
>at chax@mtn.org, or does he have a new e-address to go with his "real"
>address in spatial "reality"?
>
>Gwyn McVay
>
>
Gwyn -- the last i heard he can still be reached at this email address, tho
he did post about a week back that he'd be off-line for a week or so.
best,
bmarsh
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:55:54 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
Comments: To: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
On 23 Aug 96 at 13:10, George Bowering wrote:
> >George Bowering added (the bit beginning "Oh yeah?"):
This thing is turning into The Renga According to Proust !-)
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 05:47:02 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 10 Aug 1...
George Bowering wrote (the bit beginning "I was told personally by
Ron Silliman"):
> >> > >> >> >To Charles Bernstein---
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Wondering how you are this late summer eve. Or summer's eve. Since I
> >> >>never
> >> >> >> >even look at the Digest except when the when turns into the then (so
> >> >>dumb,
> >> >> >> >forget it), am glad to see your CB. HOw does one say hello without
> >> >> >>talking to
> >> >> >> >the whole team? Hi team Ever, Ann!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I was wondering that too, Charles. I want to tell you how much you
> >>mean to
> >> >> >> me, and especially how much I savor that weekend in the motel in
> >>Wyoming,
> >> >> >> N.Y.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Not that I've forgotten our last blissful night at the Bide-A-Wee in
> >> >> >Peekskill, when stars fell into the Hudson and we were as pomo gods. Oh
> >> >> >Charles, how awful to have to say these things to you in front of the
> >> >> >hoi polloi. Hi hoi polloi! Ever your girl. P.S. Please send instruction
> >> >> >manual.
> >> >>
> >> >> Charles, how could you!? You told me she was just an intelligent
> >>person you
> >> >> had befriended for her quick mind! I am sending your jewelry back.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Some of us don't need trinkets to express the inexpressible, my dear
> >> >--what do you call yourself--Georgette? Some of us, on a summer's
> >> >eve, have the freedom of our own thoughts and need not surrender to
> >> >idle jealousies. Charles may do what he wishes with his heart; I
> >> >know I'll always have Peekskill, and my memories of the honeymoon
> >> >suite! P.S. Keep your baubles--you may need to hock them for a few
> >> >maple leaves.
> >>
> >> Oh yeah? Well, Charles told me a VERY interesting story about you and a
> >> certain Mister Joris, which I could never repeat in public. But REALLY, did
> >> you have to go to Poughkeepsie for something like that?
> >
> >
> >Poughkeepsie! That sweet city with her dreaming spires...But no, I
> >think Charles must have me mixed up with Amy Fisher in her preteen,
> >pre-Buttafuoco days (Pierre's the only one who REALLY knows, and
> >HE at least is too much of a gentleman to say. Aren't you Pierre?).
> >I deal with all of this in my sonnet series "Snorkling the Lotus,"
> >for anyone who really wants to plumb the depths of those times. "The
> >past is a foreign country: they do things differently there." I
> >forgive you, Charles.
>
> I was told personally by Ron Silliman that "Snorkling the Lotus" was about
> him! Oh, I get it; you tell all your conquests that the poem was about
> them. Well, some of us here in poetry-land think too much of our craft to
> employ it in amatory adventures. Some of us, such as I, live a life of the
> mind. What is Ron going to do when he finds out that you dalled with
> Pierre, and heaven knows how many others? Ron Silliman is a sensitive man.
> And he does not go around writing public poems about his affairs of the
> heart.
Really now, Georgette--seems to me that Ron goes around doing little
else. Reading him is an endless game of connect-the-nasty-bits ("Only a
minute after we agree that we're going to hop up, take a shower and not
make love this morning, you're on top of me, rubbing, gradually slipping
my penis in"). No, "Snorkling the Lotus" is all will-o'-the-wisp, all
gossamer and hardly bears comparison to that sort of tawdry retailing.
The affair you mention, if it happened at all, should have remained a
private matter between Ron and me (and possibly the night manager of
that place in Ossining). Oh Charles, how could a few soft words on a
summer's eve result in such humiliations? XXXOOO a few disconsolate
kisses in memory of my feelings.
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:02:12 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
Hey Libbie and George,
You may recall that there was a big shindig at Cortland prior to the
Buffalo fest, at which CO was the main guy but many others were there too,
and somewhere there is a tape and transcript of his "performance."
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:17:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
>Hey Libbie and George,
>
>You may recall that there was a big shindig at Cortland prior to the
>Buffalo fest, at which CO was the main guy but many others were there too,
>and somewhere there is a tape and transcript of his "performance."
>
>Burt
I would like to hear that! Also, if the SFU special collectiuons doesnt
have it, I bet they wd love to.
George Bowering. "The BAZOOKA is only for my
understanding."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4 --Tristan Tzara
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 12:57:28 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: it's citation time
Hi team! In response to backchannel queries, I want to say that yes:
>
> >"Only a minute after we agree that we're going to hop up, take a shower
> >and not make..." [censored]
is a real Silliman quote. It's from _Under_, specifically the hunk
published in _B City_ #9, 1994, p. 4 (and I don't believe that Ron
has ever apologized for such passages).
Cheers,
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:21:00 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: weiner again
hi guyzies i'm trying to theorize hannah weiner as 1) a jewish writer and 2) in
terms of trauma theory, or let me rephrase that: her texts seem to me to be
"effects" (hey that almost rhymes) of the trauma of postmodernity. and also of
being a jewish american girl (princess?) in the 40s and 50s --whose relatively
comfortable youth was concurrent w/ the Holocaust; this is a twist, i think, on
our earlier discussion of middleclass american women's "right" to use (the use
and/or abuse debate) the holocaust as touchstone for articulating their
experience: in this case it's not weiner but me who is trying to claim that as a
legitimate, if "silent teacher"ly subtext of her decentered, disavowed and
displaced writings-by-dictation. whaddya think? charles, you said something
once about a pasage in clairvoyant journal that was particularly germane to her
Jewishness; i can't recall/find what it was. any thots, any won?
maria d
ps you'll all be duly acknowledged in resulting essay, which is due in (yipes)
three days.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 20:06:23 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: weiner again
and by the way guyzies, who was Alex Hladky, mention in weiners's SIXTEEN as
having died in the fall of 1982?
bests, maria d
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 20:08:13 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: weiner again
whaddya have in mind, miekal? do you wanna join our range/renga quabal, or do
you want to do a pas de deux (duet)? by the way, do you have any tape cassettes
of Hannah Weiner? that i can buy from you?
bests, maria d
In message "maria damon" writes:
> and by the way guyzies, who was Alex Hladky, mention in weiners's SIXTEEN as
> having died in the fall of 1982?
> bests, maria d
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 21:03:11 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: word alchemy
sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or letters,
the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
bests, maria d
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 22:08:35 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
In-Reply-To: <322105df5bc8005@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Kabbalah
On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
> is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or letters,
> the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
> Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
> bests, maria d
>
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 22:16:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Bernstein <bernstei@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: weiner again
I am sorry I don't have time tonight (first week of classes at UB and
acutely hectic for me) to respond more fully to Maria's thoughts about
Hannah Weiner, though I do try to touch on some of the same issues in the
LINEbreak interview I did with Hannah. But I think the reference Maria is
referring to is from her recent work "Paw" where she recounts that a magical
creature has followed her from Mexico to NYC and that this creature houses
itself in a small velvet-lined drawer inside her forehead. This, it seems to
me, is an image of the Tfellin* (the scripture that Orthodox Jews bind on
their forehead). Also: Hannah emphasizes, in respect to the Clairvoyant
Journal, that she see words on her forehead and the picture of her on the
cover of the book has WORD written on her forehead. BUT, Hannah Weiner
herself makes no connection to any Jewish reference.
I think on the LINEbreak tape I pose this to Hannah and she notes that I
misremembered some of the details on "Paw" (which I heard at a reading about
two years ago but have not read). Problem is, with this speed of this
medium, to send this out now, and not in a month say, I am repeating the
same misremembered details, which, if adjusted to what is in "Pah" would, I
think, still hold. (I believe this poem is part of a ms that will be coming
out before too long. It's a marvelous --wild -- piece, kind of a cross
between Beatrice Potter and Magic Realism, but then again like neither one,
and presented by its author as actual. But I better stop before I
misremember more.)
*not sure if I spelled this right I checked my on-line dictionary here and
it suggests "Telling", the title of Laura (Riding) Jackson's book [The
Telling]. Weiner's method is also, of course, am image of a/the "telling".
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 21:42:31 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
i thot of that, alan, and thanks, but the kabbalah is also, isn't it, based on
numerology?
md
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.960825220830.6210A-100000@panix3.panix.com> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> Kabbalah
>
> On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
>
> > sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
> > is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or
> > letters,
> > the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
> > Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
> > bests, maria d
> >
>
> http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
> images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
> 4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 21:45:36 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: weiner again
cb writes:
> I am sorry I don't have time tonight (first week of classes at UB and
> acutely hectic for me) to respond more fully to Maria's thoughts about
> Hannah Weiner,
..
thanks charles, very helpful. how can i get a tape of linebreak interview?
md (backchannel's fine)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 22:51:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
In-Reply-To: <32210f162b0f067@mhub0.tc.umn.edu>
The gematria I think is numerological (someone please correct me!) but
most of the Kabbalah is a study, not only of the words and letters, but
of the actual _shape_ of the letters related to the inner meanings of words.
Alan
On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> i thot of that, alan, and thanks, but the kabbalah is also, isn't it, based on
> numerology?
> md
>
> In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.960825220830.6210A-100000@panix3.panix.com> UB
> Poetics discussion group writes:
> > Kabbalah
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> >
> > > sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
> > > is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or
> > > letters,
> > > the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
> > > Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
> > > bests, maria d
> > >
> >
> > http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
> > images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
> > 4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
>
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 20:06:09 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Herb Levy <herb@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject: Poetics scrap book
Whoever keeps track of press coverage of the EPC Web site (I think that'd
probably be Joel Kuzsai, but what do I know) should check out p 191 of the
September issue of Wired, the one you can read standing around at news
stands right now.
Others on the list may also be interested in checking it out. Besides the
positive verbiage on EPC there are URLs for some other poetry sites
including a cowboy poet site <http://www.westfolk.org/> & something called
Oyster Boy Review <http://sunsite.unc.edu/ob/> which, from the look of it
(I haven't checked it out yet), is a Bukowski love feast. You'll also find
a listing for Ocassional Screenful, an e-mail list that does nothing but
send a poem every few weeks (as opposed to Poetics-L which does everything
including sending a poem every few weeks).
Needless to say all of the graphics come from Oyster Boy, rather than the
EPC, even though the piece starts out with a slam on Quentin Tarantino.
Herb Levy
herb@eskimo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 22:45:40 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
thanks alan; i looked up kaballah and its origin is qabal, to receive or take,
so in terms of weiner's clairvoyance it's perfect, though it's not what i
thought i was asking. this is a very exhilerating project as it turns out; i
was dreading having to grind out an 8-page special for yet another conference (i
adore conferences mostly, but i'm getting tired of having to write things, i
mean, i'm not getting tired as it turns out, but i get tired at the *idea* of
having to write something; when i actually do it it's a gas)...the worry is it
good enough...this is for a panel on theorizing the traumatic and the other
panelists are doing this highpowered stuff on freud, deleuzian post-holocaust
cinematics and german film etc, and here i am saying isn't this neat, this lady
sees words! o well. anyone out there on the list going to the midwest mla in my
fair(haired and skinned) city?
actually i saw baraka read here last night as part of the beat exhibit, it was
exhilerating, and my colleague john wright performing l hughes's ask your mama
with a jazz quartet and a slide show.
bests, maria d
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.960825225048.8506C-100000@panix3.panix.com> UB
Poetics discussion group writes:
> The gematria I think is numerological (someone please correct me!) but
> most of the Kabbalah is a study, not only of the words and letters, but
> of the actual _shape_ of the letters related to the inner meanings of words.
>
> Alan
>
> On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
>
> > i thot of that, alan, and thanks, but the kabbalah is also, isn't it, based
> > on
> > numerology?
> > md
> >
> > In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.960825220830.6210A-100000@panix3.panix.com> UB
> > Poetics discussion group writes:
> > > Kabbalah
> > >
> > > On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> > >
> > > > sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
> > > > is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or
> > > > letters,
> > > > the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
> > > > Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
> > > > bests, maria d
> > > >
> > >
> > > http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
> > > images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
> > > 4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
> >
>
> http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
> images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
> 4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 22:57:17 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: word alchemy
There's always Rimbaud's Alchemy of the Word, the "Lettre du Voyant"
--dbchirot
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:58:16 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Smith <CharSSmith@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
In a message dated 96-08-25 22:07:48 EDT, maria writes:
<<
sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or
letters,
the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
bests, maria d
>>
maria,
Kabbalah comes to mind....
& a quick look at Johanna Drucker's _The Alphabetic Labyrinth_ mentions:
curses, spells defixiones, amulets, lamellae, kleromancy & alectryomancy
alectryomancy (credited to a follower of Pythagoras, Iamblichus): "divination
by means of a fowl. To use this method one scratched the letters of the
alphabet out around a circle in the sand and then sprinkled grain over them.
The fowl was released and the pattern of its pecking was recorded. The
sequence of letters was studied for hidden meanings or messages." --p. 68
she also mentions Agrippa's _De Occulta Philosophia_
don't know if this is of any help to ya
hope to get to SF for yr G Stein talk next week
charles
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:17:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: weiner
another one for you geniuses (this is really useful): what does "Hannah" mean in
hebrew? i'm embarrassed to say i don't know. hanni i know means happy in
arabic, so maybe its the same thing?
md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:25:43 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Oren Izenberg <OREN.IZENBERG@JHU.EDU>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
In-Reply-To: <960825235816_187673052@emout13.mail.aol.com>
Hi all.
Gematriya is indeed numerological-- but it *is* based on the correspondence
between the letters of the alphabet and their assigned number values.
The numbers serve to indicate equivalences (mystical and otherwise) between
words.
best,
O.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:35:14 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Oren Izenberg <OREN.IZENBERG@JHU.EDU>
Subject: Re: weiner
In-Reply-To: <322125613e6b070@mhub0.tc.umn.edu>
Two possible roots:
"Cheyn" means (more or less) "charm", a beauty not of aspect but of person.
Perhaps less interestingly (and probably further from the true etymology)
"Choneh" means to camp or pitch a tent; the past tense would be chana--
but the syllabic stress is different from the name-- Cha'nna the name,
chana' the verb.
On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> another one for you geniuses (this is really useful): what does "Hannah" mean in
> hebrew? i'm embarrassed to say i don't know. hanni i know means happy in
> arabic, so maybe its the same thing?
> md
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:46:51 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: weiner
In-Reply-To: <322125613e6b070@mhub0.tc.umn.edu>
Chet-nun-hay is to be gracious; it may be related to this. Chet-mem-shin
is the root of happy; hay-nun-hay is to be agreeable, pleased, pleasant;
for that matter, hay-nun-hay in the sense of hee-nay is behold or lo.
Alan - there are Arabic cognates as well.
On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
> another one for you geniuses (this is really useful): what does "Hannah" mean in
> hebrew? i'm embarrassed to say i don't know. hanni i know means happy in
> arabic, so maybe its the same thing?
> md
>
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:11:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
In-Reply-To: <32211de468b9002@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
I remember Hannah, the first time I met her, reading the word "poison" on
my forehead, and I thought at that point, it's also a weapon.
Just as depression (my own included) is a weapon.
That can't be overlooked.
Kabbalah - original meaning "to be opposite," then "to take that which is
opposite, to take over, to receive." Indication it might be related to
Akkadian words for "battle" and "middle," and Arabic "qalb" for "heart."
Check out Ernest Klein, A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the
Hebrew Language, for Readers of English, Macmillan, 1987. If you want
more traditional sources, I can find them.
Alan
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:28:07 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: word alchemy
Comments: To: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
On 25 Aug 96 at 22:51, Alan Sondheim wrote:
> The gematria I think is numerological (someone please correct me!) but
> most of the Kabbalah is a study, not only of the words and letters, but
> of the actual _shape_ of the letters related to the inner meanings of words.
I haven't seen much, in the Kabbalah writings that I've read,
referring to the meaning of the shapes of the letters. It sounds
intriguing -- can you point me toward a reference?
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:29:39 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglis Beck <DlisRicBck@AOL.COM>
Subject: small press & poetry
julie, there are two excellent books you should check out on small presses.
one is richard peabody's "Mavericks" (subtitle is something like: 7 renegade
publishers; whatever, its packed, sorry.) its very good & probably much
better than the other: "The Art of Literary Publishing" can't remember the
editor, but it strikes me as more pedantic than richard's book. both will be
interesting to you though. douglis.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:43:54 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
Comments: To: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
In-Reply-To: <199608260528.AAA29285@zoom.bga.com>
I remember material in the Zohar discussing the name of God - it might
also be in tales of the Chassidim - in terms of the Hay needing support
from the yod (also means hand) for example...
Alan
On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Joseph Zitt wrote:
> On 25 Aug 96 at 22:51, Alan Sondheim wrote:
>
> > The gematria I think is numerological (someone please correct me!) but
> > most of the Kabbalah is a study, not only of the words and letters, but
> > of the actual _shape_ of the letters related to the inner meanings of words.
>
> I haven't seen much, in the Kabbalah writings that I've read,
> referring to the meaning of the shapes of the letters. It sounds
> intriguing -- can you point me toward a reference?
> ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
> |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
> ||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
> |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
>
http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
images: http://www.cs.unca.edu/~davidson/pix/
4 GIN 1/3 SA KUG. BABBAR
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:03:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Thomas Bell <trbell@USE.USIT.NET>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
In-Reply-To: <32211de468b9002@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
maria damon wrote
>...the worry is it
> good enough...this is for a panel on theorizing the
> traumatic and the other
> panelists are doing this highpowered stuff on freud,
> deleuzian post-holocaust
> cinematics and german film etc, and here i am saying
> isn't this neat, this lady
> sees words!
-as I"ve said before, it's the act of writing or drawing
that counts. I've seen this as a therapist and in my
own work. The names and the theories you note are
just part of their own secret kabbalah. Go get 'em!
tom
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:54:51 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: word alchemy
For word alchemy as performance score, see Emmett Wiiliams, The
Alphabet Symphony:
This is a symphony in which you can spell "love" by smoking a
cigar, blowing a silent dog whistle, eating a chocolate eclair off the
floor on all fours.
In The Alphabet Symphony, twenty-six objects are substituted for
the letters of the alphabet. These objects, with instructions on what
the performer should do with them, are arranged on the stage in
alphabetical order. The conductor draws a letter from a box. He calls
the letter "E", for example, and the performer proceeds to the row of
objects, selects the "E" object, and does with it what the instruction
tells him to do.
The objects and actions can vary from performance to performance
. . . it was the most popular of my performances in early Fluxus days . .
. (1962).
The complete text may be found at:
http://www.panix.com/~fluxus
Instructions in a Symphony that varies from performance
to performance--interesting to think on in relation to the intersections
of predictions/control/fate/chance--
(some of which were brought up during the "stochastic"
thread on this list a number of weeks ago)
--dave baptiste chirot
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:43:12 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Hannah
Comments: cc: damon001@maroon.tc.umn.edu
Maria, at this very odd site
> http://www.sasknet.com/~dramashar/hannah.htm
found this:
> Pronunciation, meaning & background
>
> * Channah, {pronounced khan-naw'}.
> * Hannah means 'grace'
> * 1) the mother of Samuel, one of the wives of Elkanah
>
> - or -
>
> * chanan {khaw-nan'}
> * - mercy, gracious, merciful supplication, favor, besought, pity,
> fair, favorable, favored
> * 1) to be gracious, show favor, pity
> * 1 a) (Qal) to show favor, be gracious
> * 1 b) (Niphal) to be pitied
> * 1 c) (Piel) to make gracious, be favorable, be gracious
> * 1 d) (Poel) to direct favor to, have mercy on
> * 1 e) (Hophal) to be shown favor, show consideration
> * 1 f) (Hithphael) to seek favor, implore favor
>
> The actress should consult, and be very familiar with, the story of
> Hannah in 1 Samuel, chapters 1 and 2.
Rachel
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:09:43 -0500
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Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Judy Roitman <roitman@OBERON.MATH.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
Alan Sondheim suggested that
>Kabbalah
was the answer to Maria Damon's question
>
>> is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or letters,
>> the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
>> Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
>> bests, maria d
>>
Kabbalah is a lot bigger than that. A *lot* bigger.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judy Roitman | "Glad to have
Math, University of Kansas | these copies of things
Lawrence, KS 66045 | after a while."
913-864-4630 | Larry Eigner, 1927-1996
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:23:34 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
judy writeman roits:
> Alan Sondheim suggested that
>
> >Kabbalah
>
> was the answer to Maria Damon's question
> >
> >> is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or
> > letters,
> >> the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
> >> Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
> >> bests, maria d
> >>
>
> Kabbalah is a lot bigger than that. A *lot* bigger.
>
that's what i thought, but so many folks have responded by pointing me to the
Kaballah that...uh-oh, it might be time for me to descend. i've always been
fearful of not having the "right stuff" (by which i don't mean traditional
gender requirements, but a kind of energy for sustained longterm inquiry into
things more profound than imaginable, kinda like taking acid as a metaphysical
exercise). not wanting to just cruise the surface, but aware of the
significance of diving deep. who'd a thot that a dinky-ass little conference
paper wd land me in the Kaballah.
thanks everyone, there's been lots of helpful response.
md
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:02:29 PDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jerry Rothenberg <jrothenb@CARLA.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
Comments: cc: jrothenb@ucsd.edu
For maria d --
In the original edition of A BIG JEWISH BOOK I have a selectiion from Hannah's
Clairvoyant Journal -- set between an image of Wallace Berman's 1960s "Wall"
and a number of medieval Hebrew (masora) "calligrams." The commentary on
Hannah begins: "Weiner's journals -- contemporary -- arise from an experience
of word-visualization reminiscent of those of the traditional poet-mystics:
'I see words on my forehead, in the air, on other people [etcetera].' With
this the reader can compare, e.g., the appearance of the Hebrew letters
(above, p. 391) as "great mountains," or the oral manifestation to the
kabbalist Joseph Caro (1488-1575) of a maggid (heavenly messenger), who took
the name Mishna & a persona between male & female ..."
It then goes on to quote Caro's description of the visitation, which
is in fact a gift of spoken rather than written words -- words that "will
speak in thy mouth & thy lips will vibrate." The great mountains reference
from an anonymous 13th century author, describes an act of word kabbala
involving recombinations of the letters of the names of God & runs like
this:
"During the second week the power became so strong in me that I
couldn't manage to write down all the combinations of letters which
automatically spurted out of my pen. ... When I came to the night in which
power was conferred on me, & Midnight had passed, I set out to take up the
Great Name of God, consisting of 72 Names, permuting & combining it. But
when I had done this for a little while, the letters took on the shape of
great mountains, strong trembling seized me & I could summon no strength, my
hair stood on end, & it was as if I were not in this world. Then something
resembling speech came to my lips & forced them to move. I said: "This is
indeed the spirit of wisdom."
[This is probably the kind of thing Alan Sondheim had in mind in speaking
about the shapes of letters.]
I conclude the above quote with some more: "The range of approaches & names
("the whole Torah is nothing but the great name of God" -- thus J. Gikatilla)
should be clear in the images that follow. From what is in effect a sacred
'concrete poetry.'" And the conclusion to the commentary on Hannah: "The
lack of a similar context for Weiner's experience, etc., is a condition of
our time -- on which no further comment."
Anyway there's more in fact that could be said -- e.g. about gematria as
a field of both letters & numbers, etc. -- but it's a busy morning in San
Diego & about as far as I can go.
Jerome Rothenberg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:52:39 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
George et al.
Does anyone know if and where a recording of the Cortland Poetry
Convocation is? (I know there is a transcript somewhere).
burt
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:32:02 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
thanks jerry for the reminder that i have this terrific resource (a big j-book)
right on my shelf. almost wrote 'on my self' --apropos.
bests, maria d
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:49:40 PDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jerry Rothenberg <jrothenb@CARLA.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
Burt --
You might try the Blackburn archives at UC-San diego (Archive for the
New Poetry), which has all of Paul's tapes. I'd guess the Cortland
Poetry events were a few years before Paul moved there, but there's a
chance (I'm just guessing) that he would have been there, and in that
case, there's every chance he would have come back with a recording.
The number is 619-534-2253, and the person to talk to is Brad Westbrook.
All best
Jerry Rothenberg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:10:03 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carl Lynden Peters <clpeters@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: word alchemy (fwd)
> jack burnham (north western university) writes on the kabbalah and marcel
> duchamp. he's done amazing work, and sometime ago had begun a bk on the
> shapes of the letters and duchamp's work -- it was called (tentatively)
> _narrative structure in western art_. i think he's abandoned that
> project, tho, or is holding onto the manuscript -- but probably the most
> accessible bk of his which outlines all of this is his collected essays:
> _great western salt works_ -- i think it's out of print, but any
> university library will (or shld) have it. what's especially interesting
> for me is what he has to say abt gnosticism and duchamp's _indifference_ --
>
> c.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:16:33 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: word alchemy
>Kabbalah
>
>On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, maria damon wrote:
>
>> sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
>> is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or
>>letters,
>> the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
>> Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
>> bests, maria d
Well, I thought of Kabala too, but that's kind of numbers and letters, eh?
George Bowering. "Nuestros cuerpos se cubren
de una yedra de s=EDlabras."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
--Octavio Paz
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca =20
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:16:41 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: weiner
My old Webster gives Hannah as "grace"
George Bowering. "Nuestros cuerpos se cubren
de una yedra de s=EDlabras."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
--Octavio Paz
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca =20
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:33:20 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: weiner
thanks george; my old webster gives nothing of meaning.
In message <v01530503ae47c996dae6@[142.58.126.37]> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> My old Webster gives Hannah as "grace"
>
>
>
>
> George Bowering. "Nuestros cuerpos se cubren
>
> de una yedra de s=EDlabras."
> 2499 West 37th Ave.,
> Vancouver, B.C.,
> Canada V6M 1P4
> --Octavio Paz
> fax: 1-604-266-9000
> e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca =20
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:15:36 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: James Sherry <jsherry@PANIX.COM>
Subject: Hannah Weiner
In-Reply-To: <199608260404.AAA01443@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Roof Books will publish Hannah's Weiner's <<We Speak Silent>> this fall. I
will try to make a special offer to the list when the book becomes available.
Meanwhile, Maria, I wonder about your theory. The themes in Hannah's
writing don't seem to me to have much to do with holocaust. A list of
them would show late sixties tv and political issues, the fast,
lsd, family, friends, and isolation. Why not take her at her word?
The interest for me in Hannah's writing has always been her ability to
weave through inside and out without the usual membranes and transitions.
For Hannah much of what we call art comes quite easily to her once she
has put herself in a particular position, which I don't need to characterize.
Also see Maria Damon's essay in the new issue of <<Chain>>: Hannah makes
a pure play at consciousness by mixing genres. Sometimes she succeeds and
the reader is pleased.
James
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:36:26 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Charles Watts <cwatts@SFU.CA>
Subject: Berkeley poetry conference 1965
George Bowering is right, we do have a good deal of information here
about both the Vancouver (1963) and Berkeley (1965) poetry conferences,
including tape recordings of the roundtable discussions and readings in
Vancouver and of the lectures and readings in Berkeley. The Berkeley
recordings are copies of those held in the library at UC Berkeley; the
Vancouver recordings are unique. And no, unfortunately we cannot make
copies of these recordings available to interested users without the
permission in writing of the participants/readers or their estates. If
you want to hear them, come to Vancouver!
Ralph Maud has been publishing a lot of useful material about the
Berkeley poetry conference, particularly about Charles Olson's
reading/talk. Several years ago, Ralph "published" for his own classes'
use a new, corrected transcription of Olson's talk at Berkeley which is
much more accurate and complete than Zoe Brown's _Charles Olson Reading
at Berkeley_, published in 1966 by Coyote. Ralph Maud's
transcription was eventually included in _Muthologos: the Collected
Lectures and Interviews of Charles Olson_, The Four Seasons Foundation, 1978.
Recently Ralph has been publishing material related to Olson's appearance
in Berkeley (as a kind of rebuttal to Tom Clark's account in his bio of
Olson), in _The Minutes of the Charles Olson Society_. I don't have the
exact issues at hand, but you can write to Ralph (snail mail only) at
1104 Maple Street, Vancouver, B.C. Canada V6J 3R6 with specific queries.
If you want issues or a subscription to _The Minutes of the Charles Olson
Society_, write to the Charles Olson Society at the same address. Single
issues are $2.50 a copy, a subscription to the current series (series 2)
is $25. Also, a transcription of the "Angel, Muse, Duende" discussion
featuring Olson, Ginsberg and Duncan, Vancouver, 1963, is published in
_Sulfur_ 33. There's also a memoir (from Duncan McNaughton, I think) of
Olson's talk at Cortland in one of the _Minutes of the Charles Olson
Society_.
If you have questions about materials held here in Special Collections,
Simon Fraser University, you can contact me backchannel at cwatts@sfu.ca.
A caution, tho: I'll be away from this screen and email address for the
next two weeks.
As a kind of perspective on the ever-mounting heap of compost in that
red wheelbarrow, look again at what Melville said about doubloons and
their beholders in _Moby-Dick_.
Best,
Charles Watts
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:11:30 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner
james sherry writes:
> Roof Books will publish Hannah's Weiner's <<We Speak Silent>> this fall. I
> will try to make a special offer to the list when the book becomes available.
goody! in the meantime, where can i get "PAH" or PAW, that charles mentioned?
>
> Meanwhile, Maria, I wonder about your theory. The themes in Hannah's
> writing don't seem to me to have much to do with holocaust. A list of
> them would show late sixties tv and political issues, the fast,
> lsd, family, friends, and isolation. Why not take her at her word?
i'm not talking about thematics so much as effect; her writing as an effect of
post-holocaust (Jewish) subjectivity. something like that. not trying to
ferret out any subtext. still, thanks for the list of identifiable themes.
>
> The interest for me in Hannah's writing has always been her ability to
> weave through inside and out without the usual membranes and transitions.
> For Hannah much of what we call art comes quite easily to her once she
> has put herself in a particular position, which I don't need to characterize.
good point; i like stuff about weaving and membranes.
>
> Also see Maria Damon's essay in the new issue of <<Chain>>: Hannah makes
> a pure play at consciousness by mixing genres. Sometimes she succeeds and
> the reader is pleased.
interesting; what specific genres wd u say she mixes?
>
> James
maria d
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:27:19 +0100
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Kevin Killian <dbkk@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Marlene Nourbese Philip
This is Dodie Bellamy. Marlene Nourbese Philip will be reading at Small
Press Traffic in November. I remember there was quite an involved
discussion of her work here on the poetics list a few months ago. I'd like
to look that discussion up in the list archives. Anybody remember around
when that was?
Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:50:25 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carnography <scrypt@INTERPORT.NET>
Subject: Kaballah, possibly unrelated resources
maria damon typed:
> sorry guys its me again, going a little crazy:
> is there a word for a system of magic or divination based on words or lett=
ers,
> the way numerology is based on numbers and astrology is based on stars?
> Logology? Logomancy? alphabetrics?
> bests, maria d
Magic, alchemy and Kabbalism *are* based on exact formulas
of words and numbers or, more specifically, perfectly realized
paradoxes and complexities coded in letters and numbers. Blavatsky
once said, "God is math," (can't give you title or page number: I
find her prose insufferable), and the statement hardly originated
with her. *The Book of Numbers*, available in certain magic-related
book stores, even gives tables for the translation of words into
numbers. There is also ancient trick that is used to reduce the
the entire text of the bible (in the original Sanskrit) into
a sequence of permutations on a single formula.
My research had to do with the Sephira, Adam Kadmon, and Qliphoth,
but perhaps a few of my books will be useful to you.
Sources:
_The Saragossa Manuscript_ (both the film and the novel are brilliant),
Count Jan Potocki,
_On the Kabalah and Its Symbolism_, Gershom Scholem
_The Book of Numbers_ (?)
_The Golem_, Gustav Meyrinck
_The Hidden Chakrahs_ (?)
_The Book of Imaginary Beings_ Borges, of course)
_Dictionary of the Kabalah
_The Astral World_, Panchadasi
Books with question marks were read or copied at the library.
This was a novella ("Val Demar's Pear," to be published by
Permeable Press in November) rather than a paper, so I didn't
keep meticulous footnotes.
=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=
=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=
=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7
I'm doing three albums and finalizing two books right now,
so if you don't see me here, it's because I don't even have
the time to grieve. Unsolved Mysteries called me about Susan
last week. I recited her virtues until they lost interest,
then went back into preproduction.
All the best,
Rob Hardin
http://www.interport.net/~scrypt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:41:29 +0000
Reply-To: jzitt@humansystems.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jzitt@bga.com>
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@HUMANSYSTEMS.COM>
Organization: HumanSystems
Subject: Re: Kaballah, possibly unrelated resources
Comments: To: Carnography <scrypt@INTERPORT.NET>
On 27 Aug 96 at 0:50, Carnography wrote:
> numbers. There is also ancient trick that is used to reduce the
> the entire text of the bible (in the original Sanskrit) into
> a sequence of permutations on a single formula.
Sanksrit?! Which bible?
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Dallas, Texas \|||
||/ Question Authority, The == SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt == <*> <*> == The Data Wranglers! \|
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 06:24:16 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carnography <scrypt@INTERPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Kaballah, possibly unrelated resources
Joseph Zitt typed:
> Sanksrit?! Which bible?
Someone was listening: This was part of the explanation as
given to me by a Blavatsky disciple. She (the disciple) maintained
that the Hebrew text of the bible came from a Sanskrit text, which
was said to be the origin of the permutated sequence she showed me.
Some people who study the occult, a few of whom I've met, maintain that
(and please don't kill the messenger) Kabbalism is a variant of Eastern
mysticism. No authoritative text that I've read verifies this--but
I have seen the bible-code idea referred to in _On the Kaballah and
Its Symbolism_, by Gershom Scholem.
But really, I'm not interested in getting into a discussion for the next
month or so. I haven't time. I was just trying to be helpful.
All the best,
Rob Hardin
http://www.interport.net/~scrypt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:28:27 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: - Kim Tedrow <RoseRead@AOL.COM>
Subject: Hannah/Anna
Hi Maria,
I don't know if Hannah and Anna are the same word in Hebrew, but "Anna" is
from the Hebrew word meaning "Grace" (I remember reading this in a standard
dictionary, it may have been the Random House Unabridged).
Kim
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:44:36 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: maria damon <damon001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Kaballah, possibly unrelated resources
once again, thanks to all who've helped...off to sf now so will be incommunicada
for a wk, then, kablammo! i'll be back, signed, hannah akhmatfillin...
In message <v01540b13ae487cfffe1e@[204.74.3.74]> UB Poetics discussion group
writes:
> Joseph Zitt typed:
>
> > Sanksrit?! Which bible?
>
> Someone was listening: This was part of the explanation as
> given to me by a Blavatsky disciple. She (the disciple) maintained
> that the Hebrew text of the bible came from a Sanskrit text, which
> was said to be the origin of the permutated sequence she showed me.
> Some people who study the occult, a few of whom I've met, maintain that
> (and please don't kill the messenger) Kabbalism is a variant of Eastern
> mysticism. No authoritative text that I've read verifies this--but
> I have seen the bible-code idea referred to in _On the Kaballah and
> Its Symbolism_, by Gershom Scholem.
>
> But really, I'm not interested in getting into a discussion for the next
> month or so. I haven't time. I was just trying to be helpful.
>
> All the best,
>
> Rob Hardin
>
> http://www.interport.net/~scrypt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:47:36 EST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: "Burt Kimmelman -@NJIT" <kimmelman@ADMIN.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berkeley 1965
Jerry,
Great idea. I have to be in touch with Brad soon anyway, and will follow
up.
Burt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:21:53 BST
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ira Lightman <I.Lightman@UEA.AC.UK>
Subject: Robert Sward etc missed by UTOPIAN FORMALIST round-ups
Does anybody on the list have any interest in
Robert Sward? Born in the USA, lived and wrote
(don't know if he@s still alive) in Canada,
selected poems 1957-1991, to give idea of
times he was writing, now out of print tho
full text available from a website. I've always
been privately very interested
in his work, came across it by luck when the
reference book, Contemporary Poets, fell open on
his entry when I picked it up idly once. He
rarely got into or gets into Books of Canadian
Verse etc anthologies, as USA born I suppose;
I got interested in him while living in New
Zealand, when I was "coincidentally" looking at
the issue of: Where Do You Get Noticed If You're
Not Part of a Movement (LangPo, New Formalism etc),
Not the big Mainstream Name, and, above all in New
Zealand, if You're Not Your Country's Nationality.
Have more perhaps heard of Daphne Marlatt? Far and
away my favourite Canadian writer, got into no
Canadian anthologies; as she was born outside
Canada; and I've often wondered if she only started
to get in because her work in the eighties
started to feel representative of a "minority
group", as a gay writer, as a feminist writer,
not just because she's a really good writer.
Anyone like Alan Riach? A Scot living in New
Zealand, also rarely gets put in Scottish
roundups or New Zealand roundups, but I think
his work is fabulous.
Shouldn't there be an anthology of the people
who don't usually get into anthologies?
The Poetry for the Millenium book just missed
all these emigres I'm mentioning -or others, like
David Miller, an Australian living in England.
And isn't it the case that ex-Brits Steve MacCaffery
and David Bromige are harder to put into
LangPo anthologies? Is it because those anthologies
are really American LangPo Anthologies, in
order to create a pure essence of LangPo utopia,
connected to the long tradition of Americans-
writing-up-their-enthusiasms-as-UTOPIAN-FORMALISM
-------- rather than experimental-practice-
most-successful-and-appreciated-in-American-
experimentalism-consuming-practices (of which
there are nearly none in Britain and New
Zealand, in my experience, where it's still
poets in-joking to other poets, to the frustration
of a lot of great UK and NZ experimentalists!,
rather than artistic stimulation of consciousness
enjoyed by an active audience of other artists
and thinkers) ----------- rather than *actually*
look at how different
poets in english-speaking cultures with
different speech-writing relations
have foregrounded their relations
and the role of language with them?
Would anyone on the list nominate their
inclusions for such a book, or feelings
on this subject?
Best
Ira Lightman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:15:47 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Cynthia Franklin <cfrankli@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Intl.MELUS Conf.
Comments: cc: Louise Kubo <kubo@hawaii.edu>
-------------------
First International and Eleventh National MELUS Conference
Multi-Ethnic Literatures Across the Americas and the Pacific:
Exchanges, Contestations, and Alliances
Honolulu, Hawai'i
April 18-20, 1997
The following information is also available at the conference website:
http://www.lll.hawaii.edu/web/conference/melus97
*Keynote Speakers*
Linda Hogan
A Chickasaw originally from Oklahoma, Linda Hogan is currently Associate
Professor in the English Department of the University of Colorado where
she teaches creative writing. The recipient of several major grants, Hogan
is a prolific poet, essayist, playwright, and novelist. She is the author
of four volumes of poetry: Calling Myself Home (1978), Daughters, I Love
You (1981), Eclipse (1983), Seeing through the Sun, which won a Before
Columbus Foundation American Book Award, and of the acclaimed novel Mean
Spirit (1990). Her essay collections on women and and Native American
cultures include Stories We Hold Secret: Tales of Women's Spiritual
Development (1986) and Dwellings: a Spiritual History of the Living World
(1995), and she has recently collaborated on a non-fiction collection with
her father, entitled That Horse .
Haunani-Kay Trask
Director of the Center for Hawaiian Studies, Professor of Hawaiian Studies
at the University of Hawai'i at Manoa, and member of Ka Lahui Hawai'i, Dr.
Trask is a versatile poet, scholar, teacher, public lecturer, and activist
for Native Hawaiian rights. Trask is the author of Eros Power: the Promise
of Feminist Theory, as well as two works on colonialism, Fighting the
Battle of Double Colonization and From a Native Daughter: Colonialism and
Sovereignty in Hawai'i (1993), and the poetry collection Light in the
Crevice Never Seen (1994). Her essays and poems have been widely
anthologized.
Albert Wendt
As a writer, teacher, and editor, Albert Wendt has played a pivotal role
in promoting cultural production in the Pacific. Born in Western Samoa,
Wendt is the author of six novels (several of which have been made into
feature films), two short story collections, two poetry collections, and
major essays on Pacific literature (including "Toward a New Oceania"). He
is the editor and introducer of the groundbreaking Lali: A Pacific
Anthology (1990) and a follow-up anthology, Nuanua: Pacific Writing in
English since 1980 as well. Wendt is currently Professor of English at the
University of Auckland, having previously taught in Fiji and Samoa. Leaves
of the Banyan Tree, Wendt's epic third novel, won the New Zealand Wattie
Book of the Year Award, and is considered a classic of Pacific literature.
Other works include the novels Sons for the Return Home, Flying-Fox in a
Freedom Tree, Pouliuli, Black Rainbow, and Ola .
*Accommodations*
The majority of conference activities (including banquet and sessions on
April 19 and 20) will be held at the Ala Moana Hotel. Accommodations at
special conference rates will be available at the Ala Moana Hotel, 410
Atkinson Drive, Honolulu, adjacent to the Ala Moana Shopping Center and
the Ala Moana Beach Park. The hotel is centrally located, ten minutes away
from the more touristy areas of Waikiki and close to historic downtown
Honolulu and Iolani Palace. Special rates for the conference are as
follows:
Kona Tower--city view
$80 for single occupancy
$80 for double occupancy
Waikiki Tower--city view
$92 for single occupancy
$92 for double occupancy
$112 for triple occupancy
Rooms are subject to Hawai'i' s state excise tax of 4.17% and hotel room
tax of 6.0% (rates are subject to change). Hotel rates in downtown
Honolulu/Waikiki are generally very costly, and we highly recommend the
quality and convenience of the accommodations at the Ala Moana Hotel,
which is offering conference participants these excellent rates. Airport
shuttles service the hotel.
As the conference will consist of 3 full days beginning April 18, 1997, we
suggest that participants check-in by April 17. Reservations should be
made by March 17, 1997. Room requests after this date will be confirmed
based on space availability, and if available will be extended at the
conference rate. Room extensions of three nights prior and three nights
after the conference dates of April 18-20, 1997 will be honored at the
conference rate. For reservations, call (808) 955-4811.
*Transportation*
United Airlines has agreed to provide discounted airfares to all
conference attendees traveling to Honolulu from the United States and
Canada. Reservations and schedule information may be obtained by calling
the United Meetings Desk at 1-800-521-4041 and referencing the ID Code
507SA. Meeting Desk hours are Monday thru Sunday, 7am to 12 midnight
(EST).
*Registration*
Please print out this form, complete it, and mail it with your check
payable to "East West Center" to:
MELUS Conference
English Department
1733 Donaghho Road
University of Hawai'i
Honolulu, HI 96822
DEADLINE for registration is January 15, 1997.
Last Name:
First Name:
University/Institutional Affiliation:
Address:
City:
State/Country:
Postal Code:
Daytime Phone:
Fax:
E-mail:
Non-Students $75
Students $50
Conference registration fee is non-refundable. Registration fee includes
a banquet and two luncheons.
Please make checks payable to East West Center
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:33:07 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julia Stein <jstein@LAEDU.LALC.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 25 Aug 1996 to 26 Aug 1996
------------------------------------------
>
>Maria Damon asks,
>another one for you geniuses (this is really useful): what does "Hannah" mean
>in
>hebrew? i'm embarrassed to say i don't know. hanni i know means happy in
>arabic, so maybe its the same thing?
>md
>
>------------------------------
I once read that "Hannah" is an acronym for the three traditional
tasks of Orthodox Jewish women: lighting Shabbas candles for the Sabbath;
going to mikva or the ritual baths in order to keep the laws of ritual
purity; and making hallah or white bread. Sorry, but I don't remember the
citation.
I was named after my grandmother whose original name was Hannah.
After she moved to this country, she anglicized it to "Anne." I used the
above information in a poem I wrote about my name once called "The Songs of
Two sisters, Hannah and Galia." I also was named after my great-aunt whose
name was originally Galia & that got anglicized to "Julia."
Julie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:48:45 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: James Sherry <jsherry@PANIX.COM>
Subject: 4 U.K. Writers Read at Segue Performance Space
THE SEGUE PERFORMANCE SPACE @ 303 East 8th Street (Betw Aves. B&C)
New York, New York (212) 674-0199
is proud to announce that 4 renouned writers from the U.K. will
read at our lovely loft on TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 3 at 8:00 p.m. sharp,
following the Poetics Conference in New Hampshire over Labor Day Weekend.
These being:
Richard Makin
Caroline Bergzall
Geoff Ward
&
Miles Champion
Suggested contribution for this exciting kickoff to the Fall reading
season is a mere $4.00.
This event is curated by Andrew Levy, Fiona Templeton & Dan Machlin.
Please contact Dan at The Segue Foundation (212) 674-0199 with any questions.
Not to be missed!
when gregor samsara slept one night escaping troubled wakedreams he found
himself transformed in his debt into a monstrous writer: Lingua
Frankeinsteiner, the moonstra upturned, vicous rolling n rocking,
entrapped in a hard shelly shock pad carapax of stone from which swindled
unredoubtable logs off puce, coulee slathering hire and high the stari
night acrospheres
- Richard Makin (from FORWORD)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:00:45 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Ian Wilson <iwilson@MGMUA.COM>
Subject: Re: Intl.MELUS Conf.
Hawaii or Mexico?
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Intl.MELUS Conf.
Author: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> at Internet
Date: 8/27/96 8:15 AM
-------------------
First International and Eleventh National MELUS Conference
Multi-Ethnic Literatures Across the Americas and the Pacific:
Exchanges, Contestations, and Alliances
Honolulu, Hawai'i
April 18-20, 1997
The following information is also available at the conference website:
http://www.lll.hawaii.edu/web/conference/melus97
*Keynote Speakers*
Linda Hogan
A Chickasaw originally from Oklahoma, Linda Hogan is currently Associate
Professor in the English Department of the University of Colorado where she
teaches creative writing. The recipient of several major grants, Hogan is a
prolific poet, essayist, playwright, and novelist. She is the author of
four volumes of poetry: Calling Myself Home (1978), Daughters, I Love You
(1981), Eclipse (1983), Seeing through the Sun, which won a Before Columbus
Foundation American Book Award, and of the acclaimed novel Mean Spirit
(1990). Her essay collections on women and and Native American cultures
include Stories We Hold Secret: Tales of Women's Spiritual Development
(1986) and Dwellings: a Spiritual History of the Living World (1995), and
she has recently collaborated on a non-fiction collection with her father,
entitled That Horse .
Haunani-Kay Trask
Director of the Center for Hawaiian Studies, Professor of Hawaiian Studies
at the University of Hawai'i at Manoa, and member of Ka Lahui Hawai'i, Dr.
Trask is a versatile poet, scholar, teacher, public lecturer, and activist
for Native Hawaiian rights. Trask is the author of Eros Power: the Promise
of Feminist Theory, as well as two works on colonialism, Fighting the
Battle of Double Colonization and From a Native Daughter: Colonialism and
Sovereignty in Hawai'i (1993), and the poetry collection Light in the
Crevice Never Seen (1994). Her essays and poems have been widely
anthologized.
Albert Wendt
As a writer, teacher, and editor, Albert Wendt has played a pivotal role
in promoting cultural production in the Pacific. Born in Western Samoa,
Wendt is the author of six novels (several of which have been made into
feature films), two short story collections, two poetry collections, and
major essays on Pacific literature (including "Toward a New Oceania"). He
is the editor and introducer of the groundbreaking Lali: A Pacific
Anthology (1990) and a follow-up anthology, Nuanua: Pacific Writing in
English since 1980 as well. Wendt is currently Professor of English at the
University of Auckland, having previously taught in Fiji and Samoa. Leaves
of the Banyan Tree, Wendt's epic third novel, won the New Zealand Wattie
Book of the Year Award, and is considered a classic of Pacific literature.
Other works include the novels Sons for the Return Home, Flying-Fox in a
Freedom Tree, Pouliuli, Black Rainbow, and Ola .
*Accommodations*
The majority of conference activities (including banquet and sessions on
April 19 and 20) will be held at the Ala Moana Hotel. Accommodations at
special conference rates will be available at the Ala Moana Hotel, 410
Atkinson Drive, Honolulu, adjacent to the Ala Moana Shopping Center and
the Ala Moana Beach Park. The hotel is centrally located, ten minutes away
from the more touristy areas of Waikiki and close to historic downtown
Honolulu and Iolani Palace. Special rates for the conference are as
follows:
Kona Tower--city view
$80 for single occupancy
$80 for double occupancy
Waikiki Tower--city view
$92 for single occupancy
$92 for double occupancy
$112 for triple occupancy
Rooms are subject to Hawai'i' s state excise tax of 4.17% and hotel room
tax of 6.0% (rates are subject to change). Hotel rates in downtown
Honolulu/Waikiki are generally very costly, and we highly recommend the
quality and convenience of the accommodations at the Ala Moana Hotel,
which is offering conference participants these excellent rates. Airport
shuttles service the hotel.
As the conference will consist of 3 full days beginning April 18, 1997, we
suggest that participants check-in by April 17. Reservations should be
made by March 17, 1997. Room requests after this date will be confirmed
based on space availability, and if available will be extended at the
conference rate. Room extensions of three nights prior and three nights
after the conference dates of April 18-20, 1997 will be honored at the
conference rate. For reservations, call (808) 955-4811.
*Transportation*
United Airlines has agreed to provide discounted airfares to all
conference attendees traveling to Honolulu from the United States and
Canada. Reservations and schedule information may be obtained by calling
the United Meetings Desk at 1-800-521-4041 and referencing the ID Code
507SA. Meeting Desk hours are Monday thru Sunday, 7am to 12 midnight
(EST).
*Registration*
Please print out this form, complete it, and mail it with your check
payable to "East West Center" to:
MELUS Conference
English Department
1733 Donaghho Road
University of Hawai'i
Honolulu, HI 96822
DEADLINE for registration is January 15, 1997.
Last Name:
First Name:
University/Institutional Affiliation:
Address:
City:
State/Country:
Postal Code:
Daytime Phone:
Fax:
E-mail:
Non-Students $75
Students $50
Conference registration fee is non-refundable. Registration fee includes
a banquet and two luncheons.
Please make checks payable to East West Center
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:02:23 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Robert Sward etc missed by UTOPIAN FORMALIST round-ups
Ira, Sward's very much alive, and (according to catalogue) teaches at
UC Santa Cruz extension.
Rachel
Ira Lightman wrote:
>
> Does anybody on the list have any interest in
> Robert Sward? Born in the USA, lived and wrote
> (don't know if he@s still alive)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:44:31 -1000
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gabrielle Welford <welford@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: NCADP CASE BRIEF: South African Youngster Facing Death Row in
Mississippi (fwd)
This one shouldn't down your e-mail! gab.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Note:
Thank you to every one who requested more information on Azi's case.
We regret not being able to respond to each individual query. However, we
trust this case brief will shed a brighter light on Azi's life, the events
leading up to his arrest, and the need for concerned people to become
involved in stopping this grave injustice.
If you would like additional information, to find out how you can become
involved in Azi's case or make a donation to Azi's defense fund please
contact our offices at:
National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty
918 "F" Street, NW Suite 601
Washington, DC 20004
(202) 347-2411, ext.5
NCADP1@aol.com
---Steven Hawkins
NCADP Executive Director
NCADP CASE BRIEF:
Azi Kambule: A South African 10th Grader Facing the Death Penalty in
Mississippi
Azi's Background:
Azikiwe Kambule was born and raised in the black township of Soweto,
directly outside of Johannesburg in South Africa. When Azi was 10-years-old,
his parents moved to Spruitview, where he attended the Ridge School.
Initially, school officials were concerned with Azi's admittance because he,
like many children in Soweto, had missed many days of formal instruction on
account of school boycotts in protest of Apartheid. These concerns were
quickly alleviated. Azi not only performed NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE--
well in his classes, but found the time to participate actively in sports and
sing in the school choir. After matriculating at the Ridge School, Azi
attended Parktown Boys and was an exceptional student there as well.
In January of 1994, when he was 15-years-old, Azi moved with his parents to
Jackson, Mississippi. They came to the United States because Azi's mother,
Busisiwe, hacholarship to obtain a Bachelor's degree at Jackson State
University in Psychology. Azi's father, Michael, joined the family a year
later. Unable to find employment before his visitor's visa expired, Mike
returned to South Africa a year later determined to find a job that would
enable him to hire proper counsel for his son.
Although Azi had done well in the rigorous educational program at the Ridge
School and Parktown Boys, the school authorities in Mississippi nevertheless
required him to be held back. Azi was placed in 8th grade at the Chastain
Middle School in NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP
CASE--
Jackson. Far from being educationally deficient, Azi was accepted into the
honors French class.
In 1995, Azi began 9th grade at Jackson's Murrah High School. He performed
well in his classes during his freshman year and enjoyed singing in the
school choir. While Azi had no difficulty adjusting academically, there were
social problems. Because of his foreign accent and mannerisms, his peers
would make fun of him. These social pressures mounted by the time Azi
reached the 10th grade. Wanting to be accepted, Azi befriended a group of
older youth who spent little time in class but NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE--
were very street-wise. When his grades began to fall, Azi's parents decided
to scrape together the funds to send him to Piney Woods, a well-respected
boarding school for black youth outside of Jackson. Azi was set to begin at
this new school when tragedy struck.
Events Leading to Azi's Arrest:
On January 25, 1996, Azi was riding in a car driven by Santonio Berry, a man
in his early twenties with a history of criminal behavior.
According to Azi's statement to the police, Berry saw Pam McGill drive by in
a red sports car and stated that he wanted the vehicle. Berry drove behind
Ms. McGill, and when she pulled into her apartment building's parking lot, he
got our of his car with a gun. Berry forced Ms. McGill to move into the
passenger seat of her vehicle and told NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
Azi to get in the back. Berry then drove from Jackson into neighboring
Madison County. He stopped the car, instructed Ms. McGill to come with him
and told Azi to stay in the car. Berry took Ms. McGill deep in to the woods.
Azi could not see or hear them. He also could not leave because he did not
know how to drive the car. Eventually, Berry returned saying that he had
shot Ms. McGill.
Azi was arrested approximately one week later when an informant notified
police that Berry had been trying to sell Ms. McGill's car. From the moment
of his arrest, Azi was cooperative. He took the police out several times to
where he thought Berry had stopped McGill's car. Azi -- a child from a
foreign county with no drivers license, no car, and no knowledge of the area
beyond Jackson -- was unable to pinpoint NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
the location. Eventually, some two months later, Berry took the police to
the crime scene.
It was only then that authorities were able to verify that Ms. McGill had
been killed. Azi was then charged as an accomplice to capital murder. This
despite the fact that he had no criminal history; was not at the crime scene;
and had cooperated fully with the authorities.
Madison County and The Impossibility of a Fair Trial:
The Hinds County prosecutor, Ed Peters, purposely moved Azi's trial to
Madison County to increase the chance of a death sentence. As reported in
the local NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
paper, Peters stated that he was moving the trial because the "jurors in
[predominantly black] Hinds County have a reputation for refusing to vote for
the death penalty."
Madison County has become a refuge community for white police and civil
servants seeking to create a racially exclusive environment. Middle-class
families in Madison tend to live in private communities where entry is
limited and private security companies often share the beat with local
police. In the towns where there is some Black presence-- such as Canton,
the county seat -- public schools are almost devoid of white pupils. White
children in these areas are routinely sent to low-cost private NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
Christian academies to thwart efforts at school desegregation.
Nor surprisingly, Madison County is the setting for John Grisham's A Time To
Kill. Like neighboring Simpson County -- made famous in the late 1980s and
early 1990s by the frequency with which young black inmates were found
hanging by their belts and shoelaces -- law enforcement in Madison County has
historically been racially biased.
In 1995, for example, amid wide-spread accusations of voter fraud and
intimidation, federal agents had to be brought in to relieve the Sheriff's
department of their election monitoring duties. The Black candidate for
mayor of Canton had been expected to win and become the first African
American to hold the post since Reconstruction. Under federal supervision, a
new election was held. Shortly thereafter, Canton inaugurated its first
Black mayor in over a century.
Earlier, in 1971, the Mississippi Supreme Court documented clear instances
NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
in which Madison County officials had systematically excluded Blacks from
jury rolls -- decades after the United States Supreme Court declared the
practice unconstitutional. Civil rights groups and defense attorneys say
that prosecutors in counties like Madison still routinely remove Blacks from
juries in capital trials.
The Criminal Justice System in Mississippi:
Why is Azi-- a child with no criminal record (or history of violence), an
honor student and someone who cooperated fully with the police-- being tried
for capital murder? The answer lies in the political rewards of seeking the
death penalty.
It is not uncommon for prosecutors to use high profile cases to propel
NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
themselves into higher office. Madison County District Attorney John
Kitchens sees his political future as being intimately linked with his
ability to get harsh sentences in well publicized cases. This view pervades
Mississippi politics.
Mississippi Governor has stated unequivocally that he intends to make
Mississippi "the capital of capital punishment." For Fordice, the future of
law enforcement and social control lies rooted in the past. Fordice has
removed radios and televisions from prisons and reintroduced "zebra suits" as
inmate uniforms. He also supported legislation that would have required
violent criminals to receive six months of mandatory flogging upon entry into
the state penitentiary. After Fordice's changes were NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
implemented, the state penitentiary system experienced its biggest inmate
riots in years.
Seeking the death penalty against Black youth under circumstances like Azi's
which do not warrant such extreme punishment is not rare in Mississippi. In
the late 1980s a Black teenage mother, Sabrina Butler, was sentenced to
death for allegedly bludgeoning her baby. Sabrina's claim that she had given
failed CPR to her baby was not only ignored, but used to argue that she had
no shame. Only when private attorneys and medical experts intervened was it
determined that Sabrina was telling the truth. After spending years
fighting to clear her name and facing execution, Sabrina NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
was found innocent and released. She left Mississippi's death row this year.
Children on Death Row in the U.S.: A Human Rights Violation and Racially
Biased:
The situation in which Azi finds himself speaks volumes about the use of the
death penalty against children. During this decade, only five nations in the
world are known to have executed persons for crimes they committed when under
18-years-old. Those countries are Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia . . .
and the United States. Of these five, America has executed the most. A
condemned child in the United States also tends to be of darker hue -- 66% of
those persons sentenced to death as children have been from racial
minorities. In this century, 75% of all persons sentenced to death as
children have been African American. Of the nine girls sentenced to death
NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
in the history of the United States, eight were African American and one was
Native American. Given these racially biased statistics, it is not
surprising that Azi has been chosen for the death penalty.
And nowhere is the international rule of law more clear than the
prohibition on the use of the death penalty against children. Nearly every
major human rights treaty in the world expressly forbids sentencing children
to death. Significantly, the United Nations Covenant on Rights of the Child,
which the US has signed, clearly states: "Neither capital punishment nor life
imprisonment without possibility of parole shall be imposed for offenses
committed by persons below eighteen years of age" If the Madison County
prosecutor is successful in his attempt to convict Azi as an NCADP CASE
BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
accomplice to capital murder, either of the possible sentences will violate
international human rights standards.
Denied Bail, Azi Tries to Better Himself and Avoid Danger:
Although Azi had no history of violence or arrest, he was denied bail. He
is currently being housed in the Madison County Jail. Since incarceration,
Azi has continued his studies, having passed with high marks the initial
tests for a general equivalency high school diploma. Azi has also received a
letter of commendation from a correspondence Bible school. While trying to
make the best of his terrible situation, Azi is also in great danger. As
noted earlier, the Mississippi jail system has a history of Black teens being
found dead in their cells. The occurrence has been so prevalent that NCADP
CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
the United States Department of Justice conducted a full-scale investigation
just a few years ago.
Azi is in particular danger because he has been assigned to share a cell
with a person who has already been convicted of a crime. It is against the
law to keep pre-trial detainees like Azi in the same cell with persons who
have already been found guilty. Azi's cellmate continuously harasses Azi and
threatens to do bodily harm to him. Azi has also been denied access to a
spiritual adviser. His minister was suddenly denied access to visit with
Azi; this is the first time in all his years of visiting persons in jail has
the minister ever been stopped from going inside. Additionally, Azi has been
NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE BRIEF--NCADP CASE-
denied proper access to a telephone. The phone has been broken for several
weeks, making it impossible for him to call his mother.
END OF BRIEF--NCADP--END OF BRIEF--NCADP--END OF BRIEF---NCADP--END
4 THINGS YOU CAN DO RIGHT NOW TO HELP SAVE AZI:
1) FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS AND PRESS CONTACTS
2) WRITE THE D.A.:
---Azi is a South African child who has no history of violence or prior
run-ins with the law; was so far away from the murder that he did not even
hear the gun shots; and has fully cooperated with the police.
There is no reason why DA Kitchens should be seeking to kill him or put him
behind bars for the rest of his life!
-----JOHN KITCHENS, ESQ. / MADISON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY/P.O. BOX 121/
CANTON, MS 39046/ (601) 859-8880-fax /(601) 859-7838-phone.
3)MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD:
Please contact the following news organizations:
--Clarion-Ledger Newspaper:
"Mississippi's Newspaper"
letters@jackson.gannett.com
--WLBT T.V. News
WLBT@teclink.com
--Jackson Advocate Newspaper:
"The Voice of Black Mississippians"
300 N.Farish Street
Jackson,MS 39202
1(601) 948-4125--fax
4) Contact the NCADP to join the campaign.
--Inquiries and conrtributions should be directed to:
National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty
918 "F" Street, NW Suite 601
Washington, DC 20004
(202) 347-2411, ext.5
NCADP1@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:16:47 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Peter Quartermain <Quarterm@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: AA in NH
Assembling Alternatives
is not a prospect for most of us, at least this far out of the New
Hampshire core of things, and I for one would be grateful indeed for any
reports, on fashion or no (Kevin, you'll be missed!), that EVERYONE there,
surely (beg! Beg! cajole!), should send to the rest of us, please. I'm
really sorry not to be going, and am thus in desperate need of a fix. Have a
good time, all. It should be quite a shindig.
Peter
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Peter Quartermain
128 East 23rd Avenue
Vancouver
B.C.
Canada V5V 1X2
Voice and fax: 604 876 8061
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:19:11 CDT
Reply-To: tmandel@cais.cais.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@CAIS.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Gematria
"a system of magic or divination based on words or letters,"
The term you are looking for, Maria, is Gematria. Doesn't Jerry
Rothenberg have a large book based on Gematria?
It's not really a matter of divination or magic, by the way, as
Kabbalah is also not really a matter of "the occult" (too much TV being
watched by someone?) as someone referred to it.
Gematria is a mystical practice of the determination of meaning and the
creation of meaning.
The word Kabbalah means, essentially, "tradition"
Scholem has an excellent introduction, smply called "Kabbalah", which
is a compilation of his articles on K-related topics for a Jewish
encyclopedia. It includes an essay on Gematria. His book "On the
Kabbalah and its Symbolism," referred to elsewhere in this thread is
one of the most extraordinary books I've ever read. For those looking
for a long summer read (this is a little late of course), Scholem's
_Sabbatai Sevi, The False Messiah_ will help one think for a decade or
so. I could go on, but the simple way to put it is that anything by him
is worth reading.
*************************************************
Tom Mandel * 2927 Tilden St. NW
Washington DC 20008 * tmandel@1net.com
vox: 202-362-1679 * fax 202-364-5349
*************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:51:58 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gematria
Comments: To: Tom Mandel <tmandel@cais.cais.com>
In-Reply-To: <32244751-00000001@tmandel.cais.com>
Hey Tom,
/APR/ responded positively to my query about a review of PROSPECT OF
RELEASE, and now I have to write the damn thing. Did Charles write a
press release or any other PR blah blah about the book? Is there anything
I should know, or any angle to take, that isn't obvious from the author's
note? I want to make this a killer review so we can get PROSPECT some
good ink.
Gwyn McVay
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:13:56 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wendy Battin <wjbat@CONNCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Robert Sward etc missed by UTOPIAN FORMALIST round-ups
In-Reply-To: <199608280405.AAA14457@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Ira,
You can find several of Sward's books on-line in the Contemporary
American Poetry Archive:
http://shain.lib.conncoll.edu/CAPA/capa.html
His homepage:
http://www.cruzio.com/~scva/rsward.html
Wendy
---------------------------------------------------
Wendy Battin wjbat@conncoll.edu
(home) http://camel.conncoll.edu/ccother/wjbat/
(CAPA) http://shain.lib.conncoll.edu/CAPA/capa.html
---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:29:19 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Swear word here!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960828101059.7139A-100000@oak.cc.conncoll.edu>
big oops--private message went to the list again--at least it wasn't the
one about *my* intrigue with Rachel L. while Pierre took pictures--
Gwyn, tres embarrassed
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:31:52 CST6CDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Hank Lazer <hlazer@AS.UA.EDU>
Organization: The University of Alabama
Subject: Re: mandel / release
Gwyn--
Embarrassed or not, I'm glad to hear that APR is interested. I just
sent Tom a letter of gratitude for PROSPECT OF RELEASE (just released
from Chax). Tom's book, which I had read in manuscript a few years
ago, is extraordinary. Charles A did a beautiful design job, and the
cover design too is wonderful.
From my perspective, Tom's book does so many things that hostile
critics of "experimental" poetries say can't be found in such
poetries. First, is the emotional intensity (which Ron Silliman
claims on the book jacket of PROSPECT, and which Ron already e-mailed
to Poetics). In my opinion, Ron's claims ("these are the most
intensely felt poems I have ever read") are not hyperbolic. Second,
Tom's work is attached to a significant, recognizable, and personal
event: the death of his father. Third, he risks moments of
didacticism and directness of statement. Fourth, there is a
substantial and serious engagement with issues that might be called
religious (Jewish), metaphysical, and spiritual.
I do not know Celan's poetry very well, so I suspect that I miss
certain resonances in Tom's book. Tom's series of fifty sonnets
strike me as most like Rilke's _Sonnets to Orpheus_--a similarly
grave engagement with death. As someone whose own father died this
past winter, I found myself moved by Tom's book into reflection and
into new writing. I hope that others on the List might take a look
at Tom's book, which ends:
One whom I thought abandoned me returned.
Another I asked to stay must leave.
From you I learn better and now know why
each mind must bend, but only to its task,
soul dancing at the prospect of release.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:06:58 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carnography <scrypt@INTERPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: Gematria
Tom Mandel:
> "a system of magic or divination based on words or letters,"
> It's not really a matter of divination or magic, by the way, as
> Kabbalah is also not really a matter of "the occult" (too much TV being
> watched by someone?) as someone referred to it.
Actually, no one said that Kaballah was a "matter of the occult."
This is what I said:
> > Some people who study the occult, a few of whom I've met, maintain that
> > (and please don't kill the messenger) Kabbalism is a variant of Eastern
> > mysticism. No authoritative text that I've read verifies this--but
> > I have seen the bible-code idea referred to in _On the Kaballah and
> > Its Symbolism_, by Gershom Scholem.
Thus, what was referred to was an interpretation of Kabbalism, not
Kabalism itself.
BTW: Since the Kaballah itself was not referred to as "the occult," and since
I gave other sources for my information, it is misleading to refer to
my research as "too much TV-watching." Moreover, your characterization
of occult practitioners--people who study Blavatsky, Crowley, etc--as TV
phantoms might just as easily be dismissed as the result of "too much
TV-watching"--if I were inclined to make ad hominem accusations.
Much so-called white magic is based on eclectic interpretations of
Kabbalism. Various texts,some of which I've cited here, involve such
interpretations,
(see Blavatsky's _Treatise on White Magic_, if you can stand it--I can't),
as do taped lectures from the Theosophical Society's Lodge, for example.
I have known people who practiced magic since I was twelve (Novelist John
Shirley being the first). Is it fair to presume that the ideas you question
come from television rather than from familiarity with religious sects
and practitioners whose principles you find dubious?
Listening to the OTO (and other popular magic sects) interpret Kabbalism
is a bit like enduring a heavy metal version of Vivaldi. Still, certain
popular magic practices are relevant to this conversation, which was
originally about magic rather than Hebrew mysticism a la carte.
Look at the way in which the Sephira have been interpreted in magical
practice: This has more to do with an occult interpretation of Kabbalah
than with Kabbalism itself.
Obviously, if one wishes to study Kabbalism, it is wisest to go to
the source--which is why I cited Schocken's _On The Kabbalah and Its
Symbolism_ long before anyone else mentioned the name. But the Sanskrit
bible idea has nothing to with early Jewish mysticism: that came
into fashion far later (post-Golden Dawn?) with a different set
of practitioners. It was the Sanskrit idea that I referred to in
the context of occult interpretation.
There is no reason for you to have to agree with any occult interptretation
of Kabbalism: I don't, hence my earlier comment on not "killing the messenger."
But neither should you deny the existence of such unorthodox variants.
OTO ceremonies sometimes take place in a building visible from my
roommate's window. Neo-medieval, neo-mystical, neo-gnostic magicians,
all of whom make use of concepts taken from Kabbalah, exist outside my
very door and not merely on TV.
However, thanks for the term *gematria.*
> Gematria is a mystical practice of the determination of meaning and the
> creation of meaning.
All the best,
Rob Hardin
PS: Thanks to all for honoring my request not to respond to
my post because I'm too busy. Who said that manners were obsolete?
http://www.interport.net/~scrypt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:15:10 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tenney Nathanson <tenney@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject: raw & cooked (reheated?)
Did the question of where the "raw and cooked" as tropes for American
poultry came from ever get solved on the list?
anyway I came across another candidate, or a candidate (not sure whether
someone mentioned this one already)
on p. 277 of Ian Hamilton's big biography of Lowell, there's an account of
Lowell using these terms, in 1960, in his National Book Award address.
Hamilton claims this is the first use of raw/cooked for talking about poetry.
Tenney
(I guess I might as well confess to still teaching LSFUD in my contemporary
poetry course:
btw:
Lowell, LSFUD
Bishop, Collected
Merrill, Selected
O'Hara, Selected
Ashbery, Selected
Koch, On the Great Atlantic Rainway: Selected Poems
Bernstein, Dark City
Scalapino: Way (last 30 copies on earth?)
Hunt, Local Histories
Mullen, Muse & Drudge
6th man award:
Notley, Descent of Alette
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:43:01 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Wendy Battin <wjbat@CONNCOLL.EDU>
Subject: Virtual Muse
Just out:
_Virtual Muse: Experiments in Computer Poetry_ by Charles O. Hartman
from Wesleyan
Paper $14.95
Cloth $35 ISBN: 0819522392
& Northwestern University Press is about to release a re-print of Hartman's
_Free Verse: An Essay on Prosody_, which has been o.p.
ISBN: 0810113163 $14.95 paper
Wendy B
---------------------------------------------------
Wendy Battin wjbat@conncoll.edu
(home) http://camel.conncoll.edu/ccother/wjbat/
(CAPA) http://shain.lib.conncoll.edu/CAPA/capa.html
---------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:34:32 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Marlatt
>Have more perhaps heard of Daphne Marlatt? Far and
>away my favourite Canadian writer, got into no
>Canadian anthologies; as she was born outside
>Canada; and I've often wondered if she only started
>to get in because her work in the eighties
>started to feel representative of a "minority
>group", as a gay writer, as a feminist writer,
>not just because she's a really good writer.
The notion that Daphne did not get into anthologies (she did, though)
because she was born outside of Canada is not tenable. If it took a while
for her to get into anthologies it was largely because she was (a) from the
west coast, and (b) she was identified as part of an avant-garde
movement--while most of the anthologies were made by squares from back
east. She certainly never had any problem getting into my anthologies.
If you want to see a case of someone who does not get into anthologies
enough, have a look at Robin Blaser, who does not get into those recent US
anthologies of contemporary poetry (maybe because he is a canadian), and is
not gathered by the squares back east, (perhaps because he was an
American), and does not get into regular anthologies because he is
perceived to be difficult.
Being perceived to be difficult is the main reason that people do not get
into anthologies (other than second-ratedness). Do you remember who were
the first Allen Anthology poets to get into Nortons and other such
anthologies? Ferlinghetti, Snyder and Levertov. They have never been
thought difficult.
George Bowering. "Nuestros cuerpos se cubren
de una yedra de s=EDlabras."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
--Octavio Paz
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca =20
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:49:14 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: AA in NH
>Assembling Alternatives
>is not a prospect for most of us, at least this far out of the New
>Hampshire core of things, and I for one would be grateful indeed for any
>reports, on fashion or no (Kevin, you'll be missed!), that EVERYONE there,
>surely (beg! Beg! cajole!), should send to the rest of us, please. I'm
>really sorry not to be going, and am thus in desperate need of a fix. Have =
a
>good time, all. It should be quite a shindig.
>
>Peter
> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
> Peter Quartermain
> 128 East 23rd Avenue
> Vancouver
> B.C.
> Canada V5V 1X2
> Voice and fax: 604 876 8061
>
> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Oh, that Quartermain. Needs his Brit-fix.
George Bowering. "Nuestros cuerpos se cubren
de una yedra de s=EDlabras."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
--Octavio Paz
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca =20
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:51:38 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Swear word here!
>big oops--private message went to the list again--at least it wasn't the
>one about *my* intrigue with Rachel L. while Pierre took pictures--
>
>Gwyn, tres embarrassed
That was YOU? As Pierre is a lousy photographer, but a great poet, it was
hard to tell who the partly-clad person was. I thought it looked a little
like David Bromige, but the tan wasnt deep enough.
George Bowering. "Nuestros cuerpos se cubren
de una yedra de s=EDlabras."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
--Octavio Paz
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca =20
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 03:26:13 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Rachel Loden <rloden@CRIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Swear word here!
George Bowering added ("That was YOU?"):
> >big oops--private message went to the list again--at least it wasn't the
> >one about *my* intrigue with Rachel L. while Pierre took pictures--
> >
> >Gwyn, tres embarrassed
>
> That was YOU? As Pierre is a lousy photographer, but a great poet, it was
> hard to tell who the partly-clad person was. I thought it looked a little
> like David Bromige, but the tan wasnt deep enough.
I certainly hope Pierre finished duplicating the pictures so we can
clean up in New Hampshire. Btw that WAS Bromige in the corner, but
he seemed more interested in his baseball card collection (despite
all the brave talk about "desire"). P.S. Pierre, when do we get
paid for the shoot?
Rachel Loden
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:35:30 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gwyn McVay <gmcvay1@OSF1.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Swear word here!
In-Reply-To: <32257045.7B10@concentric.net>
On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Rachel Loden wrote:
> George Bowering added ("That was YOU?"):
>
<snip>
> > That was YOU? As Pierre is a lousy photographer, but a great poet, it was
> > hard to tell who the partly-clad person was. I thought it looked a little
> > like David Bromige, but the tan wasnt deep enough.
>
> I certainly hope Pierre finished duplicating the pictures so we can
> clean up in New Hampshire. Btw that WAS Bromige in the corner, but
> he seemed more interested in his baseball card collection (despite
> all the brave talk about "desire"). P.S. Pierre, when do we get
> paid for the shoot?
>
> Rachel Loden
>
If Bromige's other flank had been showing, he would have been recognized
by the tattoo on his left, well, anyway, of Venus surrounded by cherubs
and scalapinos. However, this body art is very similar to one Mark
Wallace has, of Venus surrounded by veal scaloppini, so I understand why
there might have been confusion.
Gwyn McVay
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:37:08 CDT
Reply-To: tmandel@cais.cais.com
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Tom Mandel <tmandel@CAIS.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Gematria
Yes, sorry for reading too quickly and conflating phrases and sentences
to saddle you, Rob, with a description of Kabbalah as relating to "the
occult," although perhaps I was also being a bit of a snob too, as in
fact there *are* aspects of "occultism" and "popular religion" in the
long Kabbalist tradition.
And deep thanks to Gwyn and Hank. I remember David Bromige once saying
"you get your readers one by one" or as Bob Dylan puts it in "Every
Grain of Sand" "Sometimes I turn, there's someone there / other times
it's only me."
Best to all.
Tom
*************************************************
Tom Mandel * 2927 Tilden St. NW
Washington DC 20008 * tmandel@1net.com
vox: 202-362-1679 * fax 202-364-5349
*************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:30:29 -0800
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Julia Stein <jstein@LAEDU.LALC.K12.CA.US>
Subject: Re: Justice for Garment Workers Reading
A Justice for Garment Workers Literary Reading will take place:
September 8th, Sunday,
5:00 pm
Midnight Special Bookstore
Santa Monica CA
310-393-2923
Taking part will be:
Mary Helen Ponce
Carol Schwalberg
Julia Stein
Edna Bonacich
This reading is in soldarity with the UNITE campaign against Guess Inc. and
is sponsored by Los Angeles local, National Writers Union/U.A.W. and Common
Threads
from Carol Tarlen's poem "Sisters in the Flames" about the Triangle Fire:
Sister
of the flames
take my hand
I will hold you in the cradle
of my billowing skirt
in the ache of my shoulders
the center of my palm
our sisters already dance
on the sidewalk nine
floors below the fire
is leaping through my hair
Sister I will hold you
the air will lick our thighs
grab my hand
together now fly
the sky is an unlocked door
and the machines are burning
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:32:13 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Carl Lynden Peters <clpeters@SFU.CA>
Subject: THINKINGalien (fwd)
thot this may be of interest to some --
> THINKING alien
> is an international, inter-disciplinary event
> sponsored jointly by the Centre for the Study of Cultural Values,
> University of Lancaster, and the Centre for Cultural Studies,
> University of Leeds, to be held at Leeds University (Roger Stevens
> Building) on 16 & 17 September 1996
>
> THINKING alien brings together over 50 speakers from the fields of
> cultural, aesthetic and literary theory, from philosophy, musicology,
> sociology and psychology
>
> PANEL TOPICS INCLUDE:
> the philosophy of gilles deleuze; legacies of the situationists;
> science fiction and cultural theory; alien aesthetics; prosthetics,
> technology, culture; antihumanism and feminism; donna harraway and the
> cyborg; nomadic spaces; abjection, alienation and artefactuality;
> intimations of apocalypse; technologies of sound; music and dance;
> sonic expression
> plus multimedia performances from -jim flint - switch - digital chaos
> - angus carlyle
>
> FEES:
> stlg20/stlg15 concessions - cheques payable to University of Leeds - send
> to: THINKINGalien Dept. of Fine Art University of Leeds LEEDS LS 2 9JT
> please include your mail address for full conference programme
> (abstracts, information, accommodation) conference registration 9.00 -
> 11.00 hrs, 16 september - final panel ends 19.30 hrs, 17 september
>
> ACCOMMODATION:
> the organisers regret that there is only a limited amount of
> university accommodation available - for university accommodation
> contact - 0113 2336100 - for hotel accommodation contact Leeds Leisure
> Services - 0113 2425242 - or see programme for hotel listings
>
> THINKING alien is run in conjunction with
> close very very close
> a sequence of time-based installations - a programme of film and video
> roger stevens building, university of leeds, 16 - 17 september, 10.00
> - 17.00 hrs information email: finemp@lucs-mac.novell.leeds.ac.uk
>
> FUTUREsonic
> at back to basics, leeds, 17 september, 1pm - 6am
> a unique multimedia symposium and club event - exploring and extending
> the horizons of electronic music and dance culture - concessionary
> rate of stlg8 to all attending THINKINGalien information email:
> fsonic@lancaster.ac.uk - http://www.phreak.co.uk/haywire/futuresonic
>
>
> THINKINGalien
> specialists in cultural capital since 1996
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> THINKING alien
>
> an international, inter-disciplinary conference sponsored by the
> centre for cultural studies, university of leeds, and the centre for
> the study of cultural values, university of lancaster
>
> to be held at Leeds University (Roger Stevens Building) on 16 & 17
> September 1996
>
> PAPERS AND PRESENTATIONS:
>
> sara ahmed (lancaster university): phantasies of becoming - john
> armitage (northumbria university): accelerated aesthetics: paul
> virillio's vision machine - rachel armstrong (multimedia producer, occ
> multimedia): the anatomy of aliens - richard barbrook (westminster
> university): the sacred cyborg - j. barton (warwick university) -
> hinterlands:music, micro-politics, deleuze and guattari - diane
> beddoes (leeds university): side communication - a. bennett (durham
> university/ i.a.s.p.m.): t.b.c. - andrew blake: the difference engine:
> music outside theory - fred botting and scott wilson (lancaster
> university): ghosts of the machine: artificial imaginaries and the
> second death - micheal bull (goldsmiths): technologies of the visible,
> technologies of the invisible: walkman use as a strategy of looking
> and disappearing - pete buse (salford university): actor inhuman -
> angus carlyle (warwick university): the k's to key largo (audio-visual
> presentation) - carolyn brown (greenwich university): celibatory
> machines: cyborgs, cybersex and the uncanny logic of the letter -
> duncan campbell (university of wales): s and before p? microserfs and
> the "new" - micheal corsten: the dispositif of rave - jane crawford
> (warwick university): fyb(erd)roids: alien nomad - digital chaos:
> multi-media presentation - the discourse unit (chairs - angel j.
> gordo-lopez (bradford university) and ian parker (bolton institute):
> workshop - abjection, alienation and artefactuality:
> cyberpsychological prosthetic memory - dagmar fink and anne
> scheidhauer (university of frankfurt/main): cyborg narratives - phil
> edwards: cultural pimping and the overthrow of situations:
> (anti)situationist art - jim flint: multi-media presentation - mariam
> fraser (loughborough university): springs and flows: foucault,
> feminism and deleuze - jennifer friedlander (university of
> pittsburgh): capturing children/ preserving aliens - mark goodall
> (leeds university): basic banalities: a sonic evocation of the work of
> guy debord - phil goodchild (st. martins, lancaster): alien ethics:
> deleuzean ethos vs. postmodern morality - ray guines and omayra cruz
> (leeds university): hopeful narratives and monstrous aliens - paul
> haynes (lancaster university): we have never been human - graham
> harvey (king alfred's, winchester): the technologies of ecstasy:
> techno-shamanic techniques of ecstasy and neo-shamanic healing
> therapies - andrew hussey (huddersfield university) and gavin bowd
> (manchester university): le musee guy debord: paris by night -
> alessandro imperato (keele university): inner space: symptoms of
> alienation - barbara kennedy (staffordshire university): "k(n)ights in
> white satin:" faciality, film and fin-de-siecle femmes - nick land
> (warwick university): contagious rhythmic practices - nigel liddel
> (leeds university): a geometry for life - celia lury (lancaster
> university): prosthetic culture and identity - iain mackenzie (queen's
> university, belfast): thinking differently: vitalism in the political
> philosophy of gilles deleuze - bruce mcclure (warwick university):
> xenoglossolalia: alien tongues - catherine maidens (huddersfield
> university): "beneath the pose" the feminine and the alien - sarah
> marklew (bolton institute): the double within science fiction film -
> roland miller (huddersfield university): manufacturing an alienated
> nation - simon o'sullivan (leeds university): of angels and aliens -
> william pawlette (loughborough university): utility and excess: the
> radical sociology of bataille and baudrillard - carl peters (simon
> fraser university, british columbia): bp nichol and concrete poetry as
> a source of writing and allegory - j. pettigrew: koan: how long will
> koan music last? andrew quick (lancaster university): presentation
> t.b.c. - andrea rehberg (greenwich university): nietzsche's desert
> thought - david rice (university of california): alien prophecy -
> j.k.l.scott (university of wales): loving the alien: pluralism,
> polyculturalism and voodoo existence - kay schaffer (university of
> adelaide): the contested zone: cybernetics, feminism and
> representation - rob shields (lancaster university): cultures of the
> internet - mark sinker: taking sweets from unearthly strangers: radio
> waves, unearthly voices, long-distance desire - c.r.r. smethurst
> (warwick uiversity): jungle duration - david sorfa: erasure and
> apocalypse in three texts - marcella stecher (vienna): inner body to
> outer space: deconstructing femininity in ridley scott's "alien" -
> william stephenson (leeds university): the tape that exploded: william
> borroughs and sonic parody - paul sutton (bradford university):
> remembering the future: postcards from an alien world - switch: grey
> matter (audio-visual presentation) - acim szepanski (force inc. and
> mille plateaux records, hamburg): t.b.c.- yvan tardy (de montford
> university): art, everyday life, spectacle: a situationist trilogy -
> imogen tyler (manchester metropolitan university) and bruce bennett
> (bolton institute): donna harraway's primate visions: science, fiction
> and speculative futures - neil todd (manchester university): rhythmic
> motion: neuronal representations of rhythm and time - j. urpeth
> (greenwich university): alien forms: the vitalisation of form in art -
> steven h. weinberger (george mason university, fairfax): search for
> the perfect alien language - dan welch (lancaster university): alien
> abduction and the memoro-politics of apocalypse - alan wright
> (university of florida): echomania: from the dialectical image to the
> dub encounter
>
>
>
>
>
> THINKING alien
>
> ACCOMMODATION:
>
> the organisers regret that there is only a limited amount of
> university accommodation
> for university accommodation contact- 0113 2336100
> for hotel accommodation contact Leeds Leisure Services - 0113 2425242
> - or see programme for hotel listings
>
> FEES:
> stlg20/stlg15 concessions - cheques payable to University of Leeds
> send to:
> THINKINGalien
> Dept. of Fine Art
> University of Leeds
> LEEDS
> LS 2 9JT
> please include your mail address for full conference programme
> (abstracts, information, accommodation) conference registration 9.00 -
> 11.00 hrs, 16 september final panel ends 19.30 hrs, 17 september
>
> THINKING alien is organised in conjunction with:
>
> close very very close
> a sequence of time-based installations - a programme of film and video
> roger stevens building, university of leeds, 16 - 17 september, 10.00
> - 17.00 hrs information email: finemp@lucs-mac.novell.leeds.ac.uk
>
> FUTUREsonic
> a unique multimedia symposium and club event - exploring and extending
> the horizons of electronic music and dance culture - stlg8 concessionary
> rate for conference attendees
> http://www.phreak.co.uk/haywire/futuresonic back to basics, leeds, 17
> september, 1pm - 6am information email: fsonic@lancaster.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 02:40:46 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Blair Seagram <blairsea@PANIX.COM>
Subject: 12? in sanskrit
Does anybody know what the sanskrit word for 12 is?
Blair
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:57:31 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Michael Boughn <mboughn@CHASS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: need some info
Does anybody on the list know of a book called _Un Homme grand: Jack
Kerouac a la confluence des cultures_? I'm having a really hard time
tracking it down. Even Buffalo doesn't seem to have it. I'm
specifically interested in an essay by Gerald Nicosia called "Kerouac:
Writer without a home".
Thanks,
Mike
mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:12:00 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Diane Marie Ward <dward@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: need some info
In-Reply-To: <199608301157.HAA12812@chass.utoronto.ca>
The book Un homme grand : Jack Kerouac a la confluence des cultures= Jack
Kerouac at the crossroads of many cultures -- is available at the
University of Buffalo - we have 2 copies -- if you like (since I spend
most of my daylight hours working for
the Libraries) I can put you in touch with our Inter Library Loan Program
/ or put you in touch with the Poetry Collection. Email me backchannel.
Also, does anyone have an email address for John (J. W.) Curry in Toronto?
On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Michael Boughn wrote:
> Does anybody on the list know of a book called _Un Homme grand: Jack
> Kerouac a la confluence des cultures_? I'm having a really hard time
> tracking it down. Even Buffalo doesn't seem to have it. I'm
> specifically interested in an essay by Gerald Nicosia called "Kerouac:
> Writer without a home".
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
> mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Diane Ward
dward@acsu.buffalo.edu
State University of New York at Buffalo
THE AESTHETE'S LIST : http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~dward/
"I dreamt I dwelt in marble halls,
And woke to find it true;
I wasn't born for an age like this;
Was Smith, Was Jones, Were you?" -- George Orwell written in 1935.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:44:13 EDT
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Gale Nelson <EL500005@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Events in Providence
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:49:14 -0700 from <bowering@SFU.CA>
The following events are planned for Providence in the coming weeks:
Wed, 4 Sep.
Poetry readings by Maurice Scully (Dublin) and Tony Lopez (Devon)
8:00 pm TF Green, Young Orchard Street, between Hope & Cook, East Side
Thu, 5 Sep.
Performance work by MURMUR
8:00 pm TF Green (see above for address)
Tue, 10 Sep.
Mixed genre readings by Lori Baker (fiction) and Gale Nelson (poetry)
7:00 pm Little Professor Book Center, N. Main Street
Thu, 12 Sep.
Night of A Thousand and One Readings by the Graduate Students of Brown
Creative Writing
8:00 pm TF Green (see above for address)
Thu, 19 Sep.
Poetry reading by August Kleinzahler, visiting assoc. professor at Brown
8:00 pm TF Green (see above for address)
Thu, 26 Sep.
Fiction reading by Robert Coover
8:00 pm TF Green (see above address)
1-5 Oct.
Unspeakable Practices III
A festival of vanguard narrative, organized by Robert Coover
Brown campus, various locations
All events listed above are free and open to the public. All save the
Little Professor Book Center Reading are sponsored by Creative Writing,
Brown University.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:23:50 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Joe Amato <amato@CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: interesting article on the web
a few weeks back, chris funkhouser posted in about an article on the web
entitled
"virtual whiteness and narrative diversity"
by one joe lockard of uc/berkeley...
just finished reading the piece, found it to be extremely interesting, and
i too recommend it to those of you with an interest in questions of
race/ethnicity and how critical discourse relating to these latter may be
brought to bear on cspace...
again, at
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~heroux/uc4/4-lockard.html
best,
joe
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:26:37 -0500
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Christina Fairbank Chirot <tinac@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject: Street-Art: File: "DATABASE OUTPUT" (fwd)
This of much interest & concern--to be aware of.
(fwd. dbchirot)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
For Immediate Release: A.R.T.I.S.T. president Robert
Lederman's New Trial Date Set For 9/9/96
A new trial date has been set for Monday 9/9/96 Jury Part 1,
5th floor 100 Centre Street, Criminal Court Bldg. 9:30 A.M. The
previously scheduled trial date of 7/30 was unexpectedly
adjourned when a roomful of print and T.V. journalists showed
up to cover the proceedings. Robert Lederman will be the first
N.Y.C. street artist brought to trial. The prosecuting the case is
D.A. David Jaffe. Judge Pickholtz is scheduled to hear the trial.
Lederman is represented by attorney and one-time prosecutor,
Marc Agnifilo (212) 768-7833. The defense has six
eyewitnesses to the illegal arrest prepared to testify.
Since 1993 the City has handcuffed and arrested more than
350 artists for displaying or selling their paintings on N.Y.C.
streets. While it has avoided prosecuting any artist's case, the
City continues to sell thousands of works of fine art it has
illegally confiscated at its monthly forfeiture auction at One
Police Plaza. D.A.'s and judges have begun publicly expressing
disapproval of the policy.
Lederman is charged with Unlicensed General Vending and two
additional charges of Disorderly Conduct. Each charge carries a
possible three month sentence. This is an unusual case in that
the Disorderly Conduct charges as described by D.A. Jaffe at a
preliminary hearing involve nothing more than the defendant
handing out literature, holding up a protest sign that read,
"Stop Arresting Artists", photographing the police confiscating
another artists' work and handing out eight protest signs to
other artists present. These activities, as well as displaying art,
are fully protected by the First Amendment. Lederman has been
arrested twice before for distributing literature exposing the
City's artist arrest policy and numerous times while displaying
his art.
At a preliminary hearing held on 6/27 prosecuting D.A. David
Jaffe told the presiding judge, "Robert Lederman has been
arrested 13 times. If we don't stop him this will only continue.
Before being arrested he handed out protest signs to the other
artists and they marched up and down. He's even displaying
photos of artists being arrested alongside his paintings."
At that hearing the judge appeared predisposed to find
Lederman guilty regardless of the facts in the case. Lederman's
attorney was told he couldn't talk about the First Amendment.
The judge and D.A. didn't want the defense to enter
photographs taken at the arrest scene, which contradict the
police report, as evidence. The judge also denied the defense
the right to subpoena witnesses to testify on N.Y.C.'s vending
ordinance or to enter relevant testimony by City officials from
the ongoing street artist Federal suit, including the Corporation
Counsel's admission that artists, "...cannot obtain a Vending
License". [Lederman v. City of New York 94 civ. 7216 (MGC)].
The Federal case is presently before the 2nd Circuit Federal
Appeals Court with a decision expected at any time. Numerous
museums, arts and legal rights groups, including the ACLU, The
Whitney and MOMA have joined the suit in support of the artist-
plaintiffs.
Lederman is president of A.R.T.I.S.T. an advocacy group of over
200 New York street artists. He has been an outspoken critic
of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's quality of life arrest policies and of
City Council Member Kathryn Freed. Freed is known to be a
motivating force behind the artist arrests and, according to the
N.Y. Times, is in Federal Court "..seeking to overturn
Constitutional protection for visual art". Observers believe this
Criminal Court trial is an attempt to intimidate artist activists.
Recently, Lederman and other A.R.T.I.S.T. members distributed
a controversial leaflet at Criminal Court ("Why Plead Guilty?")
advising so-called "quality of life" defendants to not plead
guilty or accept plea bargaining arrangements and to demand
a trial. Members of the D.A.'s office, defense lawyers and
judges agreed with the leaflet, causing the Giuliani
administration considerable embarrassment. A number of
reporters claim they've been pressured by City officials and by
the NYPD not to continue covering the street artist issue.
For more information or to receive a press kit contact
A.R.T.I.S.T. (718) 369-2111 E-mail ARTISTpres@aol.com
or visit the A.R.T.I.S.T. web page:
http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyc.html
Photos of this and other artist arrests are available.
References to this trial, artist arrests and related material can
be found in the following:
New York Times, Sunday July 14, 1996, City section pg 13,
lead story); "The War of Nerves Downtown; Kathryn Freed's War
of Nerves" [detailed expose of City Council Member Freed]
New York Times Magazine, Sunday July 14, 1996 pg. 8 The City
"It's a Quality, Quality Life"
Art In America, March 1996 pg. 128 "New Allies for Street
Artists"
New York Times Wednesday, January 24, 1996 Metro section
pg. B1 "Street Art: Free Speech or Just Stuff?"
New York Magazine, January 23, 1995 pg 16 "Among the
Artlaws"
Christian Science Monitor Thursday, July 14, 1994 pg. 11 "New
York Reins In Street Art"
Christian Science Monitor Wednesday, February 14, 1996
"Conflict On the Street: Artists v. N.Y.C."
Time Out Magazine Feb 21-27 1996 pg. 18 "Peddle Pushers"
New York Amsterdam News Saturday, June 15, 1996 pg. 4
"Artists To Sue Over First Amendment Right of Speech".
--- from list avant-garde@lists.village.virginia.edu ---
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:02:07 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Jordan Davis <jdavis@PANIX.COM>
CURRENT PRICE LIST from SUBPOETICS/POETRY CITY
_Sea Lyrics_ by Lisa Jarnot $5
_Western Love_ by Bill Luoma $5
_Lapsis Linguae_ by Marcella Durand $5
_Immediate Orgy & Audit_ by Ange Mlinko $5
_August_ by Dan Bouchard (special issue of Compound Eye, ed. A. Mlinko) $1
_Thunk_ by Kevin Davies $3
_A Little Gold Book_ by Jordan Davis $5
_Sincerity Loops_ by Steve Carll $5
and now...
MASS AVE, ed. by Dan Bouchard $5
since 1996
Mass Ave has featured such writers as
Jawanza Ali Keita, Ange Mlinko, Jordan Davis, Renee Gladman, Chris
Stroffolino, David Baratier, Giovanni Singleton, Bill Luoma, Lisa Amber
Phillips, Beth Anderson, Meredith Quartermain, Steve Carll, Michael Leddy
and David Golumbia--
"the tightest
pants in heaven"
To order, send an email to jdavis@panix.com with your street address and
the books you need. Add $3 for first class shipping, orders over $25 add $0
for shipping even though here in New York we have to take all of our
packages to the post office somebody with a tv let me know if the unabomber
movie is any good.
Jordan Davis
46 E 7 #10
NYC 10003
jdavis@panix.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:14:56 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: George Bowering <bowering@SFU.CA>
Subject: Re: Kerouac
>Does anybody on the list know of a book called _Un Homme grand: Jack
>Kerouac a la confluence des cultures_? I'm having a really hard time
>tracking it down. Even Buffalo doesn't seem to have it. I'm
>specifically interested in an essay by Gerald Nicosia called "Kerouac:
>Writer without a home".
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
>mboughn@chass.utoronto.ca
Mike,
Yeah, the book is as you titled it. Edited by Pierre Anctil, Louis Dupont,
Remi Ferland and Eric Waddell. Published by carleton University Press,
1990. It's proceedings from that Kerouac conference in Quebec.It is
distributed by Oxford, so shd be easily obtainable. Nicosia's piece is 20pp
long.
George Bowering. "Nuestros cuerpos se cubren
de una yedra de s=EDlabras."
2499 West 37th Ave.,
Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada V6M 1P4
--Octavio Paz
fax: 1-604-266-9000
e-mail: bowering@sfu.ca =20
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:19:01 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglas Messerli <djmess@SUNMOON.COM>
Subject: Re: Hannah Weiner
Sun & Moon is publishing PAW soon in its new magazine:
Mr Knife, Miss Fork. Hannah's wonderful narrative will be
one of the major works in that special issue devoted to
the "theatrical" in lit.
Douglas Messerli
At 10:11 PM 8/26/96 -0500, you wrote:
>james sherry writes:
>> Roof Books will publish Hannah's Weiner's <<We Speak Silent>> this fall. I
>> will try to make a special offer to the list when the book becomes available.
>
>goody! in the meantime, where can i get "PAH" or PAW, that charles mentioned?
>>
>> Meanwhile, Maria, I wonder about your theory. The themes in Hannah's
>> writing don't seem to me to have much to do with holocaust. A list of
>> them would show late sixties tv and political issues, the fast,
>> lsd, family, friends, and isolation. Why not take her at her word?
>
>i'm not talking about thematics so much as effect; her writing as an effect of
>post-holocaust (Jewish) subjectivity. something like that. not trying to
>ferret out any subtext. still, thanks for the list of identifiable themes.
>>
>> The interest for me in Hannah's writing has always been her ability to
>> weave through inside and out without the usual membranes and transitions.
>> For Hannah much of what we call art comes quite easily to her once she
>> has put herself in a particular position, which I don't need to characterize.
>
>good point; i like stuff about weaving and membranes.
>>
>> Also see Maria Damon's essay in the new issue of <<Chain>>: Hannah makes
>> a pure play at consciousness by mixing genres. Sometimes she succeeds and
>> the reader is pleased.
>
>interesting; what specific genres wd u say she mixes?
>>
>> James
>maria d
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:45:14 -0700
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: jeffrey timmons <mnamna@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: xxx/event: one
In-Reply-To: <POETICS%96012519111834@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
xxx/event: one
they took over the campus at
arizona state university this week
75,000 people coming for the supperbowl
corporate hospitality suites rise over the sacred
parking lots worshiped by high and low alike
classes were cancelled for two days
closed the library early
locked the doors completely to accomodate
stuporsunday
official souvenir vendor distribution sites for all
this splurf-fest capital guzzle feed-trough
greenback shower of the sports season
a soft-drink company (who will remain
anonymous so as not to endorse this product unwittingly)
will throw a party for students with hot dogs for sale
a local hemp spokesman says he will sell dope at the scupperbog
the economic wind fall for tempe phoenix
arizona will be
tremendous according to the saturation coverage by
the arizona republic(an) for the potential to "cash-in"
on the xxx/event
arizona state university is "bloated and
inefficient"
according to a republican govenor whos filed for
bankruptcy
budget cuts will likely lead to tuition raises while the
other two state schools will suffer no such cutbacks
the stutterbloff is on more peoples minds than the next
goverment shut-down
arizona state university students marched down
the main strip of tempe protesting the ironies of this
money-gozzling fleet-ditch diving city . . .
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:23:28 -0400
Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: UB Poetics discussion group <POETICS@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
From: Douglis Beck <DlisRicBck@AOL.COM>
Subject: Corbu Poetics?
does anyone know of poetics works mentioning, dealing with, anything on Le
Corbusier's Ronchamp Chapel? I imagine this is a longshot, but architecture
school makes you desperate.
& hey Rod(Smith)--did you ever get the (e)mail I sent you so very long ago?
thanks. douglis.