========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:30:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: poetry audience/s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain tom beckett wrote; Miekal, / Cyberspace / is great / but only / inexpensive / if you can / afford access / to it. / I think yr / assumptions / are loaded / and wrong. and i gotta 2nd that if i should lose this job (which is very possible next year the budget might not be there for a 3rd time position) i'd lose all email and computer access and be back in the lovely world of letter writing and sneaking in to my wife's office late at night to work on her machine which characterizes the way things were all but the last year for me )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:44:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: poetry audience/s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, Poetry books are great but only inexpensive if you can afford access to it. I think yr assumptions are loaded and wrong. Miekal (who wonders how much it costs to use internet access at a local library. out here the towns of 300 people have free internet access in their libraries, its everywhere out here in the middle of this nowhere. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:45:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: poetry audience/s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit o & tom these same libraries probably dont have a poetry book more contemporary than leaves of grass. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:41:39 -0400 Reply-To: i_wellman@dwc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: D Wellman Subject: Re: Bye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sometimes wonder if there are valid distinctions between public acts and private acts in this cyber-age. I am tempted to say that public and private have merged in ways that make many of us uncomfortable. Still to construct complex works in and share in them an essentially public arena, to do that and not be noticed -- that strikes me as demoralizing. That we are discussing the enactment not what is enacted also might be demoralizing. Part of what Alan seems to me to be saying is that not many here seem all that interested in the realities he is pursuing. As private space gives way to public space one response is back biting. The question the Sondheim thread raises for me does concern the very possibility of maintining the author/reader response frame. I am interested in how poets negotiate possible positions for different and differing voices and what I see now is that the most common posture is largely defensive. Like Hilton then I too am sorry to see Alan take a defensive posture. I treasure the links that he sends as windows to a different order of inter-relation within these electronic spaces. I am still trying to digest what any of this means to me, beyond the matter of postures and positions. As a beginning of substantive response, I might say this much. When I am seated before a window scrolling through text, my internal editor seems to disconnect. I hardly ever read straight through something as the mechanism of scrolling might suggest I should be doing. Instead my eye jumps around looking for clues or hot spots. I am never sure that I have chosen to dwell on bits of any signifigance to any one but me. I think I want to follow my own path and for that reason I'd rather visit a web page than receive an e-mail. I'd love to be on a list that accepted html attachments. I appreciate too the problems of those with machines or connections that do not support such and wonder if there is not a technological factor of exclusion, of being excluded that is not part of the reasons for the response to Alan's work. It is like we are seeing the work at a level below the level that it is best made available to us, at a level that is difficult to engage. So that is my substantive comment: how does the work address the seeming imperative for engagement versus the temptation to scroll or delete. For me personally Alan's e-mail texts do that job when I feel I can engage with the Jennifer persona as some kind of Deleuzian body without organs madly replicating. And I wonder if one response to the electronic environment will not be the multiplacation of personae with in each of our otherwise situated selves. -- Don Wellman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:44:12 -0400 Reply-To: i_wellman@dwc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: D Wellman Subject: Re: poetry audience/s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no one to authenticate the mission, imposed despised "Nielsen, Aldon" wrote: > >no one to impress or hustle, none to > >address, only Being & Nothingness, > > no one to drive the car -- Donald Wellman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:02:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Donald M. Allen in San Francisco Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Just a brief note to say that, yes, if you are in San Francisco tonight (Friday October 29) and can come to the Small Press Traffic launch for the "New American Poetry" re-issue, the editor Donald M. Allen will indeed be there in person making a very rare appearance, yes, the Donald Allen of Evergreen Review fame and Frank O'Hara fame and this and that etc. Along with David Meltzer, Michael McClure, Barbara Guest, Ferlinghetti, Ron Loewinsohn amd Ebbe Borregaard who has not read anywhere for 25 years, so if you get this message in time please come to Small Press Traffic at New College at 7:30, 777 Valencia Street between 18th and 19th (San Francisco). Whew, I haven't been this excited since Dodie and I chased the actor David Thewlis through the corridors of SF Airport because I wanted his autograph, and then it turned out it wasn't him after all, and I was saying, "But I saw you in 'Naked'!" and this -- impostor -- slash -- lookalike -- gave me the most appalled look!!! Kevin Killian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:08:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: STANCE/self-love MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ___________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ too small not seen sweep clean full emotion your donkey piled upon him softer than felt penetrate the we'll have no worry what's to be done ___________________________________________________________________ "play with yourself, there, when no one is looking" closure abrupt. closure assumed. closure alias. ___________________________________________________________________ Closure trails discomfort. No glove that fits just right. When the words don't come easily, not just right, is this closure? ___________________________________________________________________ Sound breaks at the watchtower, filled the village your love knew the ashes dissolved and smeared cold radiant reds mixed in my heart returned from profuse tears I await book after book upon your gracious efforts showed only a faded river flows by this man he misses heaven buried alive hidden in the middle with the sudden curled willow crisscrosses when their luck runs out flustering the season everyone talks force of pleasure a pearl quite empty not having seen your lover ___________________________________________________________________ YOURS http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/i.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:44:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: Re: various stuff (reply to Alan Sondheim) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan: Seems to me that when the List dips into one of its periodic troughs of despond, it's abnormally tempting to posit 'groups' or 'bodies' (dominant and resistant) behind the constellations of voices that speak up. Thus we get notions of the List as a radical province polluted by liberals (or vice versa), or an avant-garde contaminated by folks who don't hate Pinsky, or, as you've reversed it, a "new mainstream" unable to assimilate the groundbreaking work now being done. Though I think you're right that some of the self-styled avantgardism on this List is hopelessly dated and mainly self-congratulatory, your work itself always reminds me that particularly in electronically mediated discourses there are no *essentializable* discursive groups: rather, what you get are shifting patterns of allegiance and dissent. Notions of total inclusion in, or exclusion from, the List as fantasized community seem equally meaningless to me. Brian Lennon >I think what's lacking here, at least for me (and possibly some others) is exactly what one means by poetics - and then, given that, what body - of literature, people, texts, or media - that word should be applied to,here, on this list - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:39:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: Atlanta Poetry Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is wonderful, of course, to know 4 or 5 people with whom you share a passionate mutual interest, particularly if you feel this enthusiasm is stigmatized in some way by those outside your own immediate circle of friends. But seeing the tag "APG" turning up lately with increasing frequency, I can't help feeling, Mark, John, and Randy, that your "confederation" (if it hasn't already crossed over the line) is threatening to become unintentionally parodic. As it is, the utility of the APG (apart from giving you all something to do on a Friday evening) strikes me as pretty blatantly self-aggrandizing. (Each of you, however, knows the truth or falsity of this better than I do: perhaps you should ask yourselves what exactly it is you experience when you see a reference to the APG included in a contributors note, or appended to a "controversial" post to the POETICS LIST.) In any case, I find these posts much less interesting as your collective "assurance" has grown. But, please--consider this to be a friendly criticism (& perhaps, too, a goad for you to continue your association along more creatives lines than I have so far observed). --jacques ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:56:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: next week at the Poetry Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Monday, November 1st is our exciting and chaotic OPEN MIKE where all expectations are thwarted. 7:30 pm sign-up, reading at 8 pm. Then, Wednesday, November 3rd at 8 pm A reading by David Bromige & Elizabeth Fodaski David Bromige has some poems on the Poetry Project web site at http://www.poetryproject.com/bromige.html for your electrical reading pleasure. He is also the author of over 30 books, including Piccolo Mondo, Initializing, & As in 'T' as in 'Tether.' Elizabeth Fodaski is the editor and publisher of Torque magazine, and the author of _fracas_ newly arrived from Krupskaya press. And then, Friday, November 5th at 10:30 pm Rattapallax magazine celebrates its 2nd anniversary with an open reading contest and featured readings by Lamont P. Steptoe, Ron Price, and George Dickerson. The best three readers will receive a FREE PC COMPUTER--yes, they work! From what we hear, they are actually state-of-the-art masterpieces of computorial construction. All readings are $7, $4 for students and seniors The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church on the corner of 2nd Ave. and 10th St. in New York, NY. Wheelchair accessible with advance notice. Call (212) 674-0910 for more information. *** If you do not wish to be on our e-mail list, please respond to this message with a "remove me please" note. *** And have a very, very wonderful Halloween, the holiday tailor-made for the poet (and artist) in you! *** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:12:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: obit for Alberti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/obit-r-alberti.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:39:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Will Alexander In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "Human Nerve Domain..." is published by Dave Baratier's Pavement Saw Press, (which also published my first full-length book a few years back) PO Box 6291, Columbus, OHIO. 43206.....It's $12.... c On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume wrote: > I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me who has published Will > Alexander's latest books, > _Above the Human Nerve Domain_ and _Stratospheric Canticles_, as I think > it's called. > > Plase backchannel -- thanks. > > Patrick Pritchett > pritchpa@silverplume.iix.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:07:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: to post or not to post.... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Character X says that Character Q has been driven off the list by Character J... Someone else says that there are 7 basic plots I've heard this before. I've heard many "things." Someone else says "How fragile we are..." Then Q comes back & says something like it's okay to write death to death and quoting my "self" (Stealer's Wheel, pg. 25) say: ... To sqaunder doubt on the mundane So the free meet the free in the free While the urge to lose count gets its 15 minutes And someone surely has my number And can see through the soliloquys... And then try to take responsibility for my absence from the discussion for the presence of absence often conjured by writing and then be nonetheless "petty" in the sequel remembering the earlier incidents of k... not only leaving the list but dragging the list down with it (him) during the darkest days of 98/99 and then there's the case of the to be published roof book (edited by the very same K...) of the circa 94-96 era of the list, a book which AT ITS BEST may turn people to the real discussion dynamics that existed on this list at the time, but which AT ITS WORST distorts the power dynamics involved in editing, and runs the risk of SITTING IN for the list, especially for those, like myself, who do not like to "curl up" with a computer as much as they do with a book... (i do not say this in malice....) but in hopes that maybe this too will generate further discussion (even if confined to "secret history" status, though one may 'bank' on foucault's theory of power, as they say) and "alan we love you get up..." et c. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:29:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: Business, class, access OR Piggly Wiggly? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The idea of deliberate networking, especially among women or engineers or other non-participants in old boy networks, like that of posting things like RFPs or calls for papers on the web, is to make the availability of opportunities more democratic. They are hardly democratic, but at least closer to this ideal, if anyone with wherewithal can go to a convention and meet some people and get a job / get published / become engaged in an ongoing discussion. What is wherewithal? What are "aspirations", as the desire to participate in the dominant culture from a position of relative power, or at least increased status, is often called? How is this related to the peculiar will to power that some have about getting other people to read their poems, schmooze, etc.? How does it separate those with it from those without it? How does it separate their poems? How does having Marjorie Perloff's phone number and the wherewithal to dial her up to invite her out for sandwiches separate one from ... well, (for me) the other carhops at the root beer stand, but what did I have in common with them, either? Why would Perloff care if I called, especially as I'm not "known" as a "poet" or "critic" (by dint of... publication) and have nothing she wants, since she has no reason to give me anything I want. If I really think about it, maybe I could say, "hi, I ... saw you at PageMothers and the Jerome Rothenburg reading, but couldn't squeeze through the fawning crowd... just wanted to say hi, I've read all your work on your web site and appreciate your efforts." (At the root beer stand we cut up old plastic condiment jars and printed our names on them to leave on the trays, so we could tell whose tips, love notes, etc. were whose.) If I had this wherewithal, or perhaps if I weren't using mine for other things, like separating myself from the other former carhops, perhaps everything would be different. I am idealizing the network as much as others idealize away what we're calling the "business" of poetry. I know no one meant to idealize the other former car hops. Surely they must be continually pondering who they are, what they are? To keep this on topic for the list: I notice a post for the Zinc Bar readings, which I recommend. I went to the Zinc Bar several weeks ago and heard Janet Bowden and Chris Stroffolino. Just the ability to breeze into town and hear a reading of this quality was fantastic. Janet read well, and Chris worked the crowd is his own inimitable style, which I found welcoming. The venue is fun, and even the bartender is translating Holderlein as he chops cases and cases of limes and mint for some exotic Brazilian drink which is apparently available hours after the reading ends, when the first of three samba shows begins. The bar is in the basement on Houston in what used to be called a "blind pig". The readings are in the way back (with Moorish decor, for some obscure reason) and they, alas, do not start at 6:37. Anyone go to the Kenward Elmslie (sp?) reading at Beyond Baroque last night? I had to miss it and really regret that. I am teaching a free workshop in the Pasadena Public Library tomorrow. We'll be talking and writing about masks and surrealism. Regards, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:48:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: various stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well spoken alan. i think your definition broadens "poetics" in interesting ways that might well broaden a definition of poetry that would include all poetry, even the visual poetry Bob earlier fet was neglected on this list. jeep posting tom bell Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > "I think of poetics as looking at relationships among forms, phenomenolo- > gies, literatures, in relation to writing/ inscription on one hand, and > the body on the other. One might include the earth as well, and the foun- > dation of the earth or the articulation of logics and structures beneath > the surface of the earth. In other words, what happens when a mouth > speaks, when words resonate, when empathy and not equivalence is primary? > This is a far cry from the politics of poetics, -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:17:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: poetry audience/s In-Reply-To: <0.95212473.254a4c11@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII At least here in New York, a lot of people have free access now - it will take a while but cyberspace is becoming cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. And an old 486 computer with Windows 3.1 can access most of it. I just got a Mac Centris 650 at the Salvation Army for $39.99 with Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. in it. There were other machines as well. It takes a lot more money to have cable these days. Alan Internet Text at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Partial at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:17:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: think i'll follow alan's lead here... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" dr lg 4.30.99: kss rgrdng "rdncks" 32:0.9.51 Rcvd: ">thnks fr ths thrd. wndr whthr thr s sm mddl grnd w \r\n" 32:0.9.52 Rcvd: ">cld lct hr. n th n hnd, cn rlt t -- ws t dny ?? --\r\n" 32:0.9.52 Rcvd: ">srry -- dny's frstrtn wth rrl cmmnts, whch r * ftn* --\r\n" 32:0.9.53 Rcvd: ">cn't w sy ths? -- qt cnsrvtv nd rsstnt t scl chng.\r\n" 32:0.9.54 Rcvd: "> s wht wmn whs fmly hls frm th pnnsylvn hlls (knwn t\r\n" 32:0.9.54 Rcvd: "> nsdrs s "pnnsyltcky"), vstd fr nmbr f rltvs n \r\n" 32:0.9.55 Rcvd: ">trlrs. s ndy's cstmrs r dbtlss rltd t my rltvs, wh ,\r\n" 32:0.9.55 Rcvd: ">by th wy, hv bn ftlly thrtnd nd lntd by my dctn nd\r\n" 32:0.9.56 Rcvd: ">pltcl cmmtmnt. t wld b nc f w cld fnd wy t tl" 32:0.10.7 Rcvd: "k\r\n" 32:0.10.8 Rcvd: ">tgthr bt ths lntns, nd bt th clss-spcfc dvd \r\n" 32:0.10.9 Rcvd: ">btwn "twn nd cntry" whch s tslf s ld s th hlls ( r s t\r\n" 32:0.10.9 Rcvd: ">sms sm thnksgvngs...). s whl pprctd mly tth's\r\n" 32:0.10.10 Rcvd: "> bjctn -- bvsly, nt ll s "hcks" r cmpltly iggnerint -- hr\r\n" 32:0.10.10 Rcvd: ">tn ws s scldng s t ptntlly slnc rl cnvrstn bt\r\n" 32:0.10.11 Rcvd: ">hw bkstr , cllg , wmn's grp mght brdg ths dvds,\r\n" 32:0.10.12 Rcvd: ">whch d xst nd shld nt b ignored.\r\n" 32:0.10.12 Rcvd: ">\r\n" 32:0.10.13 Rcvd: ">sm f ths * s* bt th dsstrs pblshng ndstry ( bt whch \r\n" 32:0.10.13 Rcvd: ">hv wrttn fr _ llns bk pblshrs_); nd sm f ths s bt\r\n" 32:0.10.14 Rcvd: "> dctnl nstttns, whch r ftn "bttr" ( r s w ssm ) n\r\n" 32:0.10.15 Rcvd: ">cts. bt hw mch f ths s bt pvrty? r w tlkng bt tht\r\n" 32:0.10.15 Rcvd: "> spct? nwdys lv n th sth sd f chcg -- hw wll r \r\n" 32:0.10.16 Rcvd: "> ndpndnt bkstrs dng dwn hr ? d gt frstrtd t tms whn\r\n" 32:0.10.16 Rcvd: ">"pvrty" n ths cntry s dfnd s rcl, nd s lctd n\r\n" 32:0.10.17 Rcvd: ">"ghtts." " 32:0.10.22 Rcvd: ""wht trsh," r rrl, pvrty s lrgly ignored s scl\r\n" 32:0.10.23 Rcvd: ">prblm. wht cn w d t srfc th fct tht t * s* prblm, nd\r\n" 32:0.10.24 Rcvd: "> ddrss tht prblm, wtht bng nsltng?\r\n" 32:0.10.24 Rcvd: ">\r\n" 32:0.10.25 Rcvd: ">mny thnks\r\n" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:20:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Burger Subject: NEW BOOK: Lauren Gudath/Second Story Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" NEW from SECOND STORY BOOKS: >>THE TELEVISION DOCUMENTARY by Lauren Gudath 20 pages, sewn binding, vellum and vinyl cover. "Isolated from the benefits and peek-a-boo regimen cleanliness and godliness the dynamo temperance The specimen: neglect, instinct, mechanics, abandoned surface. Pathetic England." -- from The Television Documentary ALSO AVAILABLE: >>A SUMMER NEWSREEL by Brenda Coultas 23 pages, hand-stitched binding, vellum and monotone color photo cover. "Those new to Coultas' writing are in for a fine treat: for several years, Coultas has been conducting an in-depth evaluation of the interstices of rural and semi-rural America and A Summer Newsreel is another stunning chapter in the most gloriously idiosyncratic work around." --Laird Hunt >>NOT RIGHT NOW by Renee Gladman 24 pages, hand-stitched binding, vellum and monotone color photo cover. "Twenty-five small, squarish prose paragraphs from on the bus, on the job, on the street, in the bed. Reading, one finds the world has been forgotten. And in the same moment the world has forgotten one." --Tom Clark SECOND STORY BOOKS publishes works that navigate a relationship between narrative and lyric, interrogating implications of time, place, and subjectivity. Send check payable to MARY BURGER, $5.00 for each book ordered, to: Mary Burger, Editor Second Story Books 85 Henry St. #5 San Francisco CA 94114 or contact SMALL PRESS DISTRIBUTION: http://www.spdbooks.org, tel. 510.524.1668 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:50:26 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wendy Kramer Subject: samuel delany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey, isn't samuel delany at univ. at buffalo this term? could someone in poetics program post what's been happening? what have y'all been talking about? wendy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:44:24 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kathylou@ATT.NET Subject: Responses to Ellis ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: kathylou@att.net To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.acsu.edu Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:08:33 +0000 Ellis: Does it probably exclude the person(s) who remain back home (no longer home to some) at the rinky dink roller rink of the repetitious yet possibly common life of those who work the buy-and-sell scheme to ends at considerable variance from your (and each our) own? KL: Of course it can and does exclude "the person(s) who remain back home." That is much of my point. How are these people excluded? Through lack of access to the Internet, educational opportunities, travel opportunities, money, money, money, cultural capital, ability to buy books, lack of wide distribution (for many reasons) of most poetry books, etc. Here's a specific example of access which is troubling. The editors of HOW2 are planning a launch party in San Francisco at which they want participants in the class and poetics forum to appear in a panel discussion. This is a wonderful idea which I support, but because HOW2 does not have money to pay for people to come, participation is limited to those who can afford to travel to SF, or who live locally. This is very difficult because several of those who participated in the forum were writing in part of their own poor or working class situations and how this affected or related to their writing and poetics in general. That those people -- those who are often the least heard -- probably won't be able to participate is very troubling indeed. Ellis: The Fix, let's call it - is this "confessional" mode really anything other than a way of side-stepping issues that are perpetually brought up by a whole class of previous side-steppers? KL: What exactly am I supposed to be "side-stepping"? And just who are these "whole class of previous side- steppers"? Also curious that you seem to be confidant in making vast assumptions about my social and class positions, and life experiences. Ellis: Since it's a pretty low-wattage elevation, I can't help but wonder what it effects viz. the class issues you're trying to introduce, especially in terms of access; you're speaking of access to just what, exactly? If you're speaking of participatory opportunities, and the apparent lack of these among the less-privileged classes, then what is it you hope to accomplish, either for yourself, or for those you seem to be suggesting you've partly left behind, by hoisting yourself from what seems one rinky dink situation to another whose difference is mostly in the issues of access and priviledge you are now wont to descry? Are you now some sort of "spokesperson" for those left sorting lettuce deep into the night? KL: Your sarcasm about "spokesperson(s)" is unwarranted. As to what I am trying to access, by participating in this list you have already affirmed that access to discussion, events, and publications related to poetry and poetics have some value. They certainly have value to me personally. Your comments seem to imply that my "hoisting" myself into a position where I can participate in this discussion is somehow suspect. What is your point? Ellis: While I can respect wanting to "lay things bare" in this situation, I don't believe that your laying claim to an understanding of the class structure of literary production as you've presented it - ie., excusing yourself without having even posed, let alone attempted to make answer to, some very tough questions regarding your own position along the lay lines of what looks to be a pretty unmapped and for now, over-simple field of metaphor - goes far enough. KL: Before making accusations as to what I have or haven't answered or asked, I would respectfully request that you at least have some familiarity with the work that I have done and am doing. If you want to have a discussion based upon actual knowledge of "my position" I would be happy to do so. In posting to this list I want to raise questions and participate in a conversation (that started by Jill Stengel). Dismissing me based upon a set of assumptions about me personally is far too easy. Great way to shut down any further inquiries into class issues and poetics. Happens all the time. Kathy Lou Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:04:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: ach... / Dorow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: "Thomas Dorow" Date: 10/30/99, 4:32 AM +0200 So I was standing at the bus station two days ago thinking about things being as they were, and I this line from Rafael Alberti pops to my mind: "Wenn meine Stimme an Land stirbt, / bringt sie hinunter ans Meer" or = rather (but that didn=B4t pop to my mind) "Si mi voz muriera en tierra,/ llevada = al nivel del mar" which is something like "If (or when) my voice dies on the land/ take her down to the sea" and then i thought of this poem in its translation, this "Debajo del chopo, amante, debajo del chopo, no. Al pie del =E1lamo, s=ED, del =E1lamo blanco y verde Hoja blanca t=FA, hoja verde yo." And then I thought how good it was that there were these kinds of poems = that come to mind just when you needed them or didn=B4t, or those sentences or lines even. And today I read that Rafael Alberti has died. I never thought of him as being still alive. He was 96, but alive. His = book "Marinero en tierra" (1924?) is ...o well. If it hadn=B4t been for that = one. There are poetics and there are poems I read and fall in love with and = there are some loves that will fail if this is taken for that. Some will not. O well. It was strange to think of him as having been alive and not being alive anymore at the same time. Also I don=B4t want Alan to leave the list. Sad. Tom. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:49:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: bybye eyeye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit = = = = = == = = = = = = = = | | | | | | | | | | | | | | --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- First of Kin, _joy_bother_vacuum Here's a jug of the best times. Each season waits for no man. Bright pale far-reaching transcendent this scene comes thru the window. Unable to say something no one's my own shadow. Days and ambition thinking until dawn. Depressed right thru impossible. I find seldom can flower now. Wild decay back where time goes by. A noble simple old family all in one place. = = = = = == = = = = = = = = | | | | | | | | | | | | | | --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- The Sorrow Project, 1000s of notes lining the habitat hardship stirs the village dogs bark rising beyond delight lacking the hopeless prosperity hugging with enthusiasm the sick idle breath filled with tears dampen the brilliance in deliberations still another drift songdragon sounds of hidden mist trap, trap, scatter water, deva-like amorous season forced to part dreams can't reach a perfect time seize the wind, see nothing = = = = = == = = = = = = = = | | | | | | | | | | | | | | --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- clairaudio critique Development of our literature whose cobwebs over the stubble, vigorous grown lame people reveled in the album sentiments, the spectres lovely as fantasy, less felt, aversion for immortals. Luke-warm Venus, pretty but stuffed-out strings to break whose ghosts controlled poetry. Genuine lyric with no serious belief -- dissolving pictures overflowing, mocked, disgusted. Expression of love the literature in glaring dissonances, street songs of self-consciousness (idle love and dream life) mocks an original, transporting the sphinx of poetry. These songs indicate the era of dissolution has begun. I think I was I'm tired I think I was I'm tired I think I was I'm tired I think I was I'm tired ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:43:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dan raphael Subject: Regionalism isn't be-littling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My comment on the followers of stafford being refered to as 'hillbilly chic' was not a slag on stafford, who i knew and respected greatly, nor on hillbillies, since i grew up near the pennsylvania/ west virginia border and have complex reactions to that term, many of them positive. quick reactions dont always come from the utterers intention . and somehow assumingt hat because i mention stafford im making any comparison between his wor k and mine (which wasn't mentioned at all, nor my personal aesthetics) in my post on local (oregon) poetics. i hope my coments cast no negative light on stafford; likewise id hope you'd take a little care before assuming negative intentions from others. dan Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:42:45 -0700 From: Billy Little Subject: Re: regionalism dan always have difficulty with poets who imagine they're advancing their work by slagging masters with a different poetics. Stafford's no hillbilly, he's an amerkan, he's a poet of soul, he may express sentiments but he's not sentimental and he connects with millions. maybe if you wrote one poem as good as the hundreds of stafford's that have touched me deeply, it might sound less like sour grapes. do the work, you don't make yourself look better by trying to make others look worse. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:55:24 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Business, class, access MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Who says poetry magazines and presses are money losing ventures? Without intelligent planning, in terms of a regular business, I suppose they might be. As for running a magazine as an aspect of "class structure" this editor started out on unemployment and used the wages to publish books and magazines. There are many publishers outside & on this list who do not use the perpetual victim stance or "have not" status you are attributing to the lower classes. I would like the dope on how I can use my editorship to get ahead, though. Also interested in a clarification or quantification of ways this manifests beyond talking with and meeting some fine writers. Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:15:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ballet for foofwa d'imobilite MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (performances the next two nights as well at the Swiss Institute) ballet "some might comment 'what fun!' - disregarding the years of toil attached to these delightful ppowers. some might answer with a sigh: 'that would bbe a dream,' and here, indeed, we have the more realistic apppproach of the two. the secret of the realisation of the dream is that it must bbbe a vision which can also bbbe pperceived bbby an audience." i am wearing the grown-ups' bodice with eight panels on the basque, oh so pretty pretty, my young breasts do swell, i do not wear the babies' bodice with two panels on the basque, oh so lovely ballet i will look? sur les pointes d'avignon i will dance and fall off my tiny little bridge on my tiny little feet, my tape backing for beauty-ribbons and extra darning to hold my tiny little toes in place! and i will rise up on my toes and i will rise up on my toes and the corded ribbon will hold my tiny feet in place, and the shoe may break where my sole touches the pure pure air as i balance on my extra extra darning! and i will rise up on my toes and i will rise up on my toes and my tutu rises from my panties and breathes in and out of me, and the extra frills, the extra frills hold swollen from the basque, so very swollen oh the seven inch frill, and the six inch frill, the frill of the lovely fifth, and the fourth inch frill, and oh! the frill of the two and a half inches, and comfort frill one of the one and a half! and i have earned my tutu and my lower lips are shaved and i have earned my tutu and my lower lips are shaved rafique, i will glide effortlessly into your hands! jonathan, you will raise me on your fingers! and adam will lift me higher than anyone, my frills above him, his thin palm against my lower lips! and eve will caress me, my black lashes wet with tears that never show! for this work looks effortless, but takes the greatest labor for this work looks easy, but believe you me it's hard one day i will rise up one day i will rise up my toes will leave the ground my toes will leave the ground _______________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:50:03 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacques Debrot Subject: Re: Poetic Culture Comments: To: izenberg@fas.harvard.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Wallace writes: >>I think CBeach may be making a pretty good career out of talking about language poetry--but note the extent to which he does this by arguing that one of the strengths of language poetry is that, vis a vis poetics, it JUSTIFIES itself to contempoary academic critical paradigms. In short he's not arguing FROM the position of the poetry itself, but from the position of an institutional critic who allows the relevance of language poetry only to the extent that it fits his critical discourse. It's the CRITICISM that's dominant; poetry conforms or not (at its peril).<< I would agree that, in Beach's account (at least in that much of it I've read to this point), there is a devaluation of "poetic knowledge" -- an epistemology, in other words, that would somehow exist outside of contemporary critical paradigms. The difficulty, of course, is how to discuss poetic knowledge without reifying it. Beach, however, is correct, I think, in pointing to the inadequacy of the attempts so far to represent the project of experimental writing in the aftermath of Language poetry. But it is precisely because poetry is a socially contingent discourse that the Language project needs to be re-evauated in the light of changing material & economic circumstances & will be seen, in some contexts, to have become irrelevant as a response to or a critique of present day social conditions. Let me limit my remarks to just one example (though are others such as D. N. Rodwick's contention that "the era of signs is rapidly fading" and that we "have already entered the age of the figural"): As I've started to do (incompletely & inadequately) in a recent article in ARSHILE, I am interested in articulating the problem of registering & mediating the body within artistic production--particularly as this was addressed by the New York Poets and by the Cage, Johns, Rauschenberg circle. Language Poetry, interestingly enough, begins as a reaction against the emphasis the New Americans had placed on the physical body in relation to the poetic line and moves instead, of course, toward a self-reflexive preoccupation with the mediation of inner experience by language. Watten explains this move away from the body as a response to the Vietnam conflict, "the era of napalm," etc. But the Language Poets' critique is aimed, not at the most "advanced" considerations of the body, but at Olson, who improperly essentialized the body as the ground & meaning of his work. Cage & the others are, by contrast, concerned with questions, anxieties, & fantasies concerning the body that are significantly different from Olson's (& I would argue interesting relevant in the current context (questions concerning gender identification, etc.) & never adequately "followed up"). Beach's dismissal (in his "Conclusion") of the *erotic* as it manifests itself in post language exp writing (as opposed to his validation of the "multicultural") only perpetuates the Language Poets's suppresion of the physical body in their work (the body is an obstacle to be overcome) and the problems the body "raises (arouses)" [Helen Molesworth]. Of course this suppression was only incomplete--Hannah Weiner, & Leslie Scalapino, for example, seem to me to be important exceptions. Beach's representation of Language poetry does not begin to address the contradictoriness of the Language project. But nor does the post-LangPo critical articulation of Language--even when in practice new writing may perhaps be even now taking up & extending LangPos largely supressed or misunderstood "marginal" aspects. --jacques ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:13:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: Re: SPD & the New Angle Press book In-Reply-To: <19991028002754.12770.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Garrett Caples Reader arrived at SPD this last Friday. It should now be available, this or any other moment. Also wanted to remind the list that any book seen on the SPD site (which are the previous month's new titles) can be gotten for 20% off if you mention the code "WEB" during your order. Check back regularly--the site's titles change monthly, around the first week. The 20% offer probably won't last too many more months. http://www.spdbooks.org Brent Cunningham At 05:27 PM 10/27/99 PDT, you wrote: >We at Angle Press are pleased to Announce the publication of the first Real >Book by Garrett Caples of Oakland, California: > >The Garrett Caples Reader > >(includes Mr. Caples's last poems) > >98 pgs, perfectbound, $9 >marvelously designed by Neko Buildings, and >published in conjunction with John Yau's Black Square Editions > >This will be available through Small Press Distribution very soon (if not at >this very moment...then that other moment that keeps passing very >quickly....the one over there under the light). > >Thank you and good day > > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:39:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: giveaway time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } i got some goodies to send to folks i'll be mailing to the 1st 10 womens and mens who send me their postal addresses and yes, anywhere in the world is fine jlowther@facstaff.oglethorpe.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:08:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: From a small Chicano press in San Diego / Calaca Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: "Calaca Press" Date: 10/30/99, 12:58 PM -0700 Poetics- A big what's up? to all of the people working at Poetics. I received info on the poetics list from another small press here in SD called Meow Press. He said I should check out the poetics list, so here I am. I am the owner (along with my wife) of a small independent Chicano press based in San Diego, California called Calaca Press. We produce bilingual literature and Spoken Word CDs. We currently have 3 titles under our belt: One book called Bus Stops and Other Poems by Manuel J. Velez and two CDs, Raza Spoken Here Volume 1 (which is a compilation Spoken Word CD by various Chicano poets from SD, LA and the SF Bay area) and Chorizo Tonguefire by a bilingual poetry collective called the Taco Shop Poets. We currently have a few projects in the works including a Spoken Word CD collaboration by two Chicana poets (Elba Rosario Sanchez and Olga Angelina Garcia Echeverria); A bilingual literary journal called La Calaca Review; Volume 2 of Raza Spoken Here; and two books to be published in late July/early August . We distribute our stuff mainly through word of mouth, the internet and the few bookshows that we attend. Therefore, we are always looking for new ways to let people know about our titles. Do you think people on the poetics list would be interested in receiving info on Calaca Press books and Spoken Word CDs? If so please subscribe us. Thank you for your time, Brent Beltran Calaca Press For more info on us please visit our website: http://members.home.net/calacapress ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:58:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Small Press Publications List Deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The deadline for this week's Small Press Publications List is this Friday. All publishers who wish to have their publications listed please send all information to jerrold@durationpress.com. Include titles, authors, prices, contact info, web address (if applicable), etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:10:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: New Observations #123 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE (This is a good magazine; I edited #120 on Cultures of Cyberspace - Alan) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: October 30, 1999 New Observations Magazine 611 Broadway #701 New York, New York 10012 (212) 677-8561, mail@newobservations.org http//www.newobservations.org New Observations is pleased to announce the publication of incarceration Guest Edited by Gene Kraig. Fall 1999, issue #123, $6.00 INCARCERATION: As Gene Kraig says in her introduction, "The artists assembled here speak of confinement. Imprisonment. Art of a most stark reality facing two million incarcerated American sons, daughters, husbands, wives. =85 We need it all to enlighten. Words and images: abstract, conceptual, representative; the refined and the unrefined. And maybe then we will be able to bring forth the picture of imprisonment today as one of the largest growth industries in America, 1999. In this issue, I have been honored to have contributors who have the capacity to transcend the saturated mediaized images of incarceration to impact us with their depictions of the meaning of confinement: labeling, impenetrable loss, hopelessness, demons, vulnerability, isolation, dehumanization, the wail of hope, the begging for compassion." Contributors to the issue: Cynthia Manning Crosby, Joan Damankos, Mary DeWitt, Todd Gilens, Jane Gillooly, Simon Grennan, Arthur Keigney, Phyllis Kornfeld, Michael Reddick, Troy Richards, Nina Rosenblum, Christopher Sperandio, Richard Torchia, Peter Waite, David Wojnarowicz Founded in 1981, New Observations, has published the art and writing of international artists on topics that reach beyond the parameters of the NY art scene. New Observations has a unique mandate: to create a quarterly publication, guest-edited by creative people from fields as diverse as visual art, music, literature and craft. Each issue is developed from proposals submitted to the magazine . The guest editors then assemble texts and images to illuminate their theme. Available now at at newsstands and art bookstores, The Dia Foundation/Printed Matter Bookstore or by subscription by contacting our office. Check the back cover for a selection of back issues. New Observations is a non-profit, contemporary arts journal written, edited and published by the arts community. Each issue has a guest editor and a pertinent topic. 1 year/4 issues/$22.00 (USA) 2 years/8 issues/$38.00 (USA) Overseas add $12.00 per year for postage. We are developing our e-mail list. Please let us know if you want to be removed from our list or if you receive multiple messages. Contact: Claire McConaughy New Observations Magazine ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:44:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: p'y audiences/// signing off pro tem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" True, Miekal---and you don't need to specify me as the recipient, as several persons ahead of me on this thread were also expressing concern about the loss of audience or imbalance of same.....I would add to your response just this, those 9,000 hits on your website : do you think they will translate into as much in grants/readings/st teaching gigs, as Dobyns' 9,000 books sold? If not, what can be done to rectify this, etc, given that one cares, etc. David ______________________________Listmates: Will be traveling for a couple weeks, so am unsubbing pro tem. Keep Up Good Work, for which Thanks. Reading Sked Nov 3 St Marks Poetry Project, NYC, Wed at 7:30 p.m, w/ Elizabeth Fodaski. Nov 9 Bath Spa University, U.K. Tues in eve. W/ Tony Lopez. Nov. 10 Plymouth Univ., at Exmouth, U.K. Wed at noon. Nov. 16 Royal Holloway & Bedford New College, Egham, U.K. Tues at noon. Nov. 16 Subvoicive, London (above The 3 Cups, Holborn). Tues eve, w/ Michael Heller. If you are within range, please come. David ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:11:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Poetry reading!! / Fouhy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable had to reformat this message etc. Chris -- From: George Fouhy Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:40:51 -0500 Northern Westchester Center for the Arts Creative Arts cafe Poetry Series 272 No. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 10549 Contact: Cindy Beer-Fouhy 914 241 6922 Fax # 914-241-0137 For immediate Release: Poet Nicholas Johnson Read at Creative Arts Caf=E9 Poetry Series Mt. Kisco, NY: The Creative Arts Cafe at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts will feature poet Nicholas Johnson on Monday, November 1, at 7:30 PM. A reception and open mike will follow. Nicholas Johnson lives and writes in Brooklyn, New York. He was born in Hartford, CT and educated at Brooklyn College (MFA), The Catholic University of America (ABD), and the University of Connecticut (BA). In addition to work in medical advertising, he has taught at the College of New Rochelle. His publications include: American Letters & Commentary, Pivot, The Ledge, The Journal, Epoch, the 1997 Anthology of Magazine Verse & Yearbook of American Poetry, The Second Word Thursday Anthology, Rattapallax, and has work forthcoming in Poetry Wales. He was a MacDowell Colony Fellow, and currently teaches creative writing at The Payne Whitney Clinic and the Lighthouse in New York. The Northern Westchester Center for the Arts is located at 272 No. Bedford Road in Mt. Kisco, NY 10549. There Suggested Donation is $7.00, $5.00 for students and seniors. Please call 914 241 6922 for directions and information. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:17:57 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: on sondheim, on raphael, on expression (OR, in defense of reading) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >This is puzzling and quite, quite bizarre: > >my post was merely relating to how others (with whom i guess you align >yourself, right?) were displaying all their massive superiority "over" D. >Raphael..... as i've said numerous time, there is much that is strong and >interesting in Sondheim's work; was gonna back-chan. this, but on 2nd >thought it probably should go on the list.... > >Do you actually read the things you respond to?? > > >mp > >On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, pete spence wrote: > > > > > ,,seems to me at least sondheim is active is MAKING things and has found >a > > venue to show and tell///pete spence > > dear mp i'm finding your responder weerd!! i'm reasonable enough friends with dan and don't know sonny/dime at all but all i was saying is sonny/dime seems to do a lot of work /shows it as it happens whyche seems a good evaluation of e-mail,,to make things /writing/art is a political act all i saying was keep making is all pete spence but is that me you are asking if i read the things i respond too????? weerd question//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:22:59 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: bye Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >it's a sad day when alan s feels he needs to drop off the list... md totally silly day!!! on the list for thick and thin of it can be hard but stick in there alan//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:24:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dbkk@SIRIUS.COM Subject: Tina Darragh & P. Inman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" If you're in the Bay Area this Friday night (November 5), we're holding a post-reading reception for Tina Darragh and Peter Inman. They'll be reading for Small Press Traffic at 7:30 and afterwards folks are invited over to our apartment for refreshments and chat. If you're interested, back-channel for details--or ask us about it at the reading. Kevin K. and Dodie B. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:10:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: of late, apologia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } dear all the list has been, in places lately unpleasant ----- i'm not about to rehash it suffice to say that for whatever part i have played or have been presumed to play in it (the latter undoubtedly my fault as well) i apologize sincerely )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:16:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: David Mura on WriteNet Comments: To: writenet@twc.org Comments: cc: David Mura MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This month on WriteNet, poet David Mura discusses his poem "An Argument: On 1942," and talks about poetry in relationship to his identity as a Japanese-American. To view the page, go to http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_dmura.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:14:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Boxkite-Naylor / Smith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris -- From: CharSSmith@aol.com Date: 11/1/99, 3:49 PM +0000 Could someone tell me how to get in touch w/ the magazine, Boxkite? I'm trying to get a copy of Paul Naylor's piece on _Whatsaid Serif_. thanks, charles ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:20:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: KENT JOHNSON Organization: Highland Community College Subject: Poem #3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT At Least He Died Trying (for John Lowther and the Atlanta Poetry Group) How can "experimental" poetry undertake to do to the institutions of Poetry what Smithson undertook to do to the institutions of Art? How does "experimental" poetry begin to move out of the studio? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:36:27 -0500 Reply-To: clkpoet@ptdprolog.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Knoebel Subject: Announcement: More Joy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drive Thru Poetry Installation http://home.ptd.net/~clkpoet/morejoy/morejoy.html -- David Knoebel http://www.clickpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:28:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: list stats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * Country Subscribers * ------- ----------- * Australia 13 * Belgium 2 * Canada 43 * Finland 1 * Germany 3 * Great Britain 21 * India 1 * Ireland 5 * Italy 1 * Japan 5 * Netherlands 1 * New Zealand 14 * Poland 1 * Singapore 1 * Spain 2 * Sweden 4 * Switzerland 2 * Thailand 1 * USA 675 * Yugoslavia 1 * ??? 1 * Total number of users subscribed to the list: 799 * Total number of countries represented: 21 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:07:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: Tina Darragh and P. Inman Reading at Small Press Traffic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1270624827==_ma============" --============_-1270624827==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reading at Small Press Traffic Friday, November 5, 7:30 p.m. Tina Darragh P. Inman The last time these two read at Small Press Traffic was mmm, must have been ten years ago, and it was one of the best reading ever given (in the opinions of those who were there) and so it is with great excitement that we announce the return of these two extraordinary poets from the Washington DC area. Tina Darragh's books include on the corner to off the corner (Sun & Moon, 1981), Striking Resemblance (Burning Deck, 1989), a(gain)2st the odds (Potes and Poets, 1989), and adv. fans - the 1968 series (Leave Books, 1993). Her work has been included in several anthologies, among them In the American Tree (National Poetry Foundation, 1986), "Language" Poetries (New Directions, 1987), out of everywhere: linguistically innovative poetry by women in North America & the UK (Reality Street Editions, 1996), and Moving Borders: Three Decades of Innovative Writing by Women (Talisman, 1998). Selections from her current project, the dream rim instructions, have been published in Chain and Primary Writing, and featured in Etruscan Reader 8 (Etruscan Books, 1998). Darragh is employed as a reference librarian at the National Reference Center for Bioethics Literature at Georgetown University. P. Inman's latest book is at. least. (Krupskaya). Other books have included Vel (O Books), Criss Cross and Red Shift (Roof), Think of One (Potes & Poets), Ocker (Tuumba) and Uneven Develop,emt (Jimmy's House of Knowledge). He has also appeared in several anthologies, the most recent of which was From the Other Side of the Century (Sun & Moon). A dues-paying member of the Labor Party, he has been involved in local union activities since 1981. He is currently Vice President of AFSCME Local 2910. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1270624827==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" TimesReading at Small Press Traffic Friday, November 5, 7:30 p.m. Tina Darragh P. Inman The last time these two read at Small Press Traffic was mmm, must have been ten years ago, and it was one of the best reading ever given (in the opinions of those who were there) and so it is with great excitement that we announce the return of these two extraordinary poets from the Washington DC area. Tina Darragh's books include on the corner to off the corner (Sun & Moon, 1981), Striking Resemblance (Burning Deck, 1989), a(gain)2st the odds (Potes and Poets, 1989), and adv. fans - the 1968 series (Leave Books, 1993). Her work has been included in several anthologies, among them In the American Tree (National Poetry Foundation, 1986), "Language" Poetries (New Directions, 1987), out of everywhere: linguistically innovative poetry by women in North America & the UK (Reality Street Editions, 1996), and Moving Borders: Three Decades of Innovative Writing by Women (Talisman, 1998). Selections from her current project, the dream rim instructions, have been published in Chain and Primary Writing, and featured in Etruscan Reader 8 (Etruscan Books, 1998). Darragh is employed as a reference librarian at the National Reference Center for Bioethics Literature at Georgetown University. P. Inman's latest book is at. least. (Krupskaya). Other books have included Vel (O Books), Criss Cross and Red Shift (Roof), Think of One (Potes & Poets), Ocker (Tuumba) and Uneven Develop,emt (Jimmy's House of Knowledge). He has also appeared in several anthologies, the most recent of which was From the Other Side of the Century (Sun & Moon). A dues-paying member of the Labor Party, he has been involved in local union activities since 1981. He is currently Vice President of AFSCME Local 2910. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1270624827==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:01:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: new on the web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Pleased to announce that the November issue of Poets & Poems is now up on the Poetry Project web site at http://www.poetryproject.com/poets.html with new work by Susan Gevirtz Don Hymans Pattie McCarthy Lytle Shaw Roberto Tejada For back issues of Poets & Poems, please visit http://www.poetryproject.com/prevpoet.html Other new features on the web site: some reprints from back back back issues of the Newsletter (we're talking 70s and 80s!) including: Bernadette Mayer's review of Clark Coolidge's MINE: The One that Enters the Stories, circa 1983, http://www.poetryproject.com/mayerrev.html & Vicki Hudspith's interview with Lyn Hejinian, circa 1970, http://www.poetryproject.com/hudspith.html and reprinted from The World Jaime Manrique's essay, Ashes and Embers: Presence of Latin Poetry in New York Cit and a new & improved monthly calendar with a few photographs of readers and some of their poems (including those of David Bromige and Roberto Tejada) at http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html. Soon forthcoming: Author Index! Please Enjoy **** If you would like to be removed from this e-mail list, please respond with "remove me please" and we will be sure to remove you. **** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:16:15 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Boxkite-Naylor / Smith Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Boxkite c/o The Poetics Foundation Inc. GPO Box 1500 Sydney, N.S.W. 2001 AUSTRALIA jtaylor@ideal.net.au >From: Poetics List Administration >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Boxkite-Naylor / Smith >Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:14:13 -0500 > >This message came to the administrative account. Chris > >-- > >From: CharSSmith@aol.com >Date: 11/1/99, 3:49 PM +0000 > >Could someone tell me how to get in touch w/ the magazine, Boxkite? I'm >trying to get a copy of Paul Naylor's piece on _Whatsaid Serif_. > >thanks, >charles > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:06:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Aviva V. Gabriel" Subject: Re: In Re Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message from Phil about sums up my own sentiments about Sondheim's postings. I find it senseless to squeeze his work out, and the newly-created absence of the opportunity to check in with his work when one has the time is a regretful turn of events. __________________________________________ Aviva Vogel Gabriel Poetangles & Motherdrum Studios P.O. Box 1085 Norwich, VT 05055-1085 __________________________________________ Kind of empty in the way it sees everything, the earth gets to its feet and salutes the sky. --John Ashbery, from "For John Clare" ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Nikolayev To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:29 AM Subject: In Re Alan Sondheim > Dear Alan Sondheim and all, > > Being swamped with work, I have been only skimming this list of late, and > very selectively. I know there have been some criticisms of Alan's > postings, but didn't realize the thing had gotten so acute. I don't have a > very clear idea of the nature of the debate (I'd be grateful if someone > gave me a brief summary), but I'm sorry to hear that it has caused some > unpleasantness. I have read Alan's book, _Reality Disorder_, with much > interest, and would very much like him to keep posting here. Alan, have you > been asked to stop posting? That's ridiculous! And where I can I read your > stuff on the poetics of mathematics? > > Don't give up and don't despair! This, too, will pass. > > Yours, > > Philip Nikolayev > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:08:29 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: poetry audience/s Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >(who wonders how much it costs to use internet access at a local >library. out here the towns of 300 people have free internet access in >their libraries, its everywhere out here in the middle of this nowhere. Miekal. being a poorly lad thats how i do it,,hour a day at my local library gets me away from the household chores etc etc//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:18:34 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Tina Darragh & P. Inman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >If you're in the Bay Area this Friday night (November 5), we're >holding a post-reading reception for Tina Darragh and Peter Inman. >They'll be reading for Small Press Traffic at 7:30 and afterwards >folks are invited over to our apartment for refreshments and chat. > >If you're interested, back-channel for details--or ask us about it at >the reading. > >Kevin K. and Dodie B. two bods i've always liked, wish i could get the busfare to the airport!!! maybe i'll pump up the waterwings//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:49:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: Regionalism; Provincialism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No, Regionalism neednt be belittling, but Provincialism is a pain in the butt. And it does appear that, the further one gets from the active centers, the more sunday painters one encounters. And by sunday painters I mean poets who write in the style of former eras __w/o knowing thats what they're doing___ . And since they dont know what theyre doing, they commonly do it badly. And you hear it and you heard it already. Actually, thats the way _I_ feel abt Stafford. I do not buy that he "thought hard for all of us." He certainly didnt think hard for me. So, one person's application of the term "provincial" may not overlap with another's. Nor wd I maintain that one doesnt find provincialism in the core of the great centers of innovative art. This is likely just a "private grumble." Fear of Hickism, I expect---that I'll become one (or have already) here betwixt the boonies and the shruburbs. And now, having picked up a handful of what I nearly stepped in, to show you, I must be going. Back in 3 weeks. David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:58:31 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: internet costs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit re Miekal & Tom on costs -- I paid 2pounds sterling + 50 p for 1/2 hour in a public library in London in October, 1 pound +50 p for 1/4 hr in a cybercafe in London, & $39.95 NZ = about $20 US per month to run internet at home Tony Green -----Original Message----- From: miekal and To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, 2 November 1999 09:38 Subject: Re: poetry audience/s >Tom, > >Poetry books > >are great > >but only > >inexpensive > >if you can > >afford access > >to it. > >I think yr > >assumptions > >are loaded > >and wrong. > >Miekal > >(who wonders how much it costs to use internet access at a local >library. out here the towns of 300 people have free internet access in >their libraries, its everywhere out here in the middle of this nowhere. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:11:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: (ELAN #3) Electronic Literary Arts Newsletter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ***************************************************************** ELECTRONIC LITERARY ARTS NEWSLETTER, November, '99 ***************************************************************** Contents: -Letter from the Editor -First Annual Literary Arts Film Awards and Writing Competition -Prairie Schooner Hops Aboard WDS -ACLU & Friends Take Round One in Michigan -Bigger, Badder, Barnes & Noble Buys Babbage -Tiny and Fabulous, FC2 Perseveres -Story to Cease; Paris Review Archives to Rest; Kenyon Review Turns 60 -Sarabande Dances to a Digital Tune -House of Representatives Wants More Money for the Arts -Frankfurt eBook Awards Established by Microsoft -IndieWIRE Talks to Jane Campion and Atom Egoyan -Around Towns: Conferences, Calls, etc. etc. LETTER FROM THE EDITOR Thank you to the many readers who sent news, advice, and tips in response to my last letter (or just because.) Special thanks to Lisa Albers for informing me of Story magazine's upcoming end, and to Cris Mazza for informing me of FC2's anniversary. Your editrix, fluctuating madly as she does between technophilia and ludditic reaction, continues to be inspired by the way lit.-lovers are using the web to create new kinds of literature, new kinds of libraries, and new kinds of access to the written word. Although she hates that plain 'ole reading is now classified as 'passive,' not part of the grand experiment that is interactivity. If anyone can explain this phenom. to me, that person will be my new best friend. A note on ELAN policy: we do not review books. Please accept my profuse apologies if my last flip letter made you think otherwise. As always, however, please continue to send other news and subscribers our way. Liana Scalettar elan_editor@webdelsol ***************************************************************** LITERARY ARTS FILM WRITING COMPETITION: TOWARDS A NEW OEUVRE Whipped up by WDS, the Fiction- and Poetry-into-Film Contest has sprung into being. Submit your poetry or fiction between September 30, 1999, and January 31, 2000 and see if they're chosen to be turned into short films by leading independent producers and filmmakers from New York University's famed film program. With a screening and awards ceremony scheduled for the National Arts Club in Manhattan, and webcast and DVD distribution of winning films, the contest promises to launch its participating writers and auteurs into multimedia heaven. Submission guidelines, contest details, and links can be found at Web Del Sol. PRAIRIE SCHOONER HOPS ABOARD Edited by Hilda Raz and based at the University of Nebraska, Prairie Schooner has long been a staple of the 'little magazine' world. And, at long last, the journal's website will be mirrored at Web del Sol. Check out some of the very best in contemporary fiction, poetry, and essay--fad-free, hype-free, inflated-rhetoric free (I promise.) New German Literature is the theme of PS's current issue, and you'll find in it a gold mine of younger German writers in translation. Perfect for reading in conjunction with your (re)discovery of Nobel Laureate Gunter Grass, no? BOWLING GREEN JOINS CWP Bowling Green State University has joined WDS's Creative Writing Program site. They've posted work by David Amadio and Melissa Fraterrigo, among many others, as well as a fine introduction to the program's journal, Mid-American Review. (http://www.webdelsol.com/CWP/BowlingGreen> ACLU AND FRIENDS TAKE ROUND ONE IN MICHIGAN A Michigan judge has issued a preliminary injunction against enforcement of an internet censorship law. The state law, which is being challenged by the ACLU, WDS, and others, would profoundly impact the ability of internet publishers to freely determine what to post on their sites. The recent ruling means that the law cannot be enforced for the duration of the lawsuit. For more information, see ELAN Numbers 1 and 2, as well as Web del Sol. Speaking of censorship, how about those Mets? I mean, how about that NYC Mayor who shall remain nameless? BIGGER, BADDER, B & N BUYS BABBAGE'S According to Publishers Weekly , Barnes and Nobles has agreed to buy Babbage's for $189 million in cash. The acquisition, which will add a video game and software chain giant to Len Riggio's bookstore empire, also has Barnes and Noble assuming $26 million in liabilities. The Texas company has just started selling its products online at www.gamestop.com, and also operates 495 Babbage's, Software Etc., and GameStop stores. Publishers Weekly notes too that Borders.com is forging new partnerships in its efforts to compete with Amazon.com and Barnesandnoble.com. Among these partners are About.com, Sessions at West 54th, and Big Planet. In addition, faced with the expansion of both major competitors into capitalism tout court, Borders.com hopes to focus its efforts on "'the book lover.'" FC2 CELEBRATES TWENTY-FIVE YEARS According to ELAN reader Cris Mazza, FC2 joins Graywolf and Kelsey Street Press in celebrating its twenty-fifth anniversary this year. Historically dedicated to giving writers editorial control, the press will issue an anniversary anthology this fall. Edited by Ronald Sukenick and Curtis White, "Into the Slipstream" will feature work by FC2 authors past and present. STORY TO CEASE; PARIS REVIEW ARCHIVES TO REST; KENYON REVIEW TURNS 60 With its Winter issue, Story Magazine will cease publication, according to Writers Digest The digest quotes editor Lois Rosenthal explaining that, with the sale of Story's parent company, she and publisher Richard Rosenthal have become concerned about the journal's future. Revived ten years ago after a lengthy hiatus, Story helped launch the careers of new writers such as Junot Diaz, Nathan Englander, Chris Adrian, and Elizabeth Graver. All four appear in the autumn anniversary issue, along with Joyce Carol Oates, Rick Bass, Andrea Barrett, and others. Poets and Writers notes that the Paris Review has sold its archives to the Morgan Pierpont Library in New York. Approximately 100 boxes of letters, photographs, interviews and books, which had been stored in the home of Paris Review editor George Plimpton, will become part of the library's twentieth-century holdings. The proceeds of the sale, estimated at $500,000, will help start a foundation that will allow the journal continue publication. Congratulations to The Kenyon Review, which celebrated its sixtieth anniversary with an October 12 talk at the National Arts Club in New York. KR's website also has exciting news: look soon for an archive of posted issues, a full-length piece from the magazine's current issue, and a new section devoted to electronic literature. SARABANDE DANCES TO A DIGITAL TUNE Sarabande Books, based in Louisville, Kentucky, has launched an Internet-based program for undergraduate students and their professors. According to Poets and Writers, Go Write to the Source will include interactive readers' guides, suggestions fur further reading, and access to question-and-answer sessions with authors in chatrooms. Available titles include "Mulroney and Others," by Baron Wormser, "Dark Blonde," by Belle Waring, and "Garden of Exile," by Aleida Rodriguez. Learn more at HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE WANTS MORE MONEY FOR THE ARTS Arts Wire's Current notes that in an October 4 vote, the House passed a nonbinding resolution that supports increased funding for both the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) and the National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH.) The resolution instructs Representatives of the joint conference committee on the FY00 Interior Appropiations Bill to agree to funding levels set by the Senate. These levels, which would add $5 million to the budgets of both federal agencies, would represent the first substantial increase in four years. FRANKFURT eBOOK AWARDS ESTABLISHED BY MICROSOFT The Microsoft Corporation will fund $160,000 worth of awards for the online publishing industry, according to the New York Times. Announced at the Frankfurt Book Fair on October 13th, the Frankfurt eBook Awards will be given annually in seven categories, with the first awardees being chosen next year. The prizes are to include a $100,000 award for the best work originally published online. INDIEWIRE TALKS TO CAMPION, EGOYAN IndieWIRE's coverage of the just-closed New York Film Festival includes a piece on Jane Campion, who was at the NYFF with "Holy Smoke." Campion's recent efforts include an adaptation of "The Portrait of a Lady," by Henry James. Also at the festival was Atom Egoyan, with "Felicia's Journey," based on William Trevor's novel. Egoyan's other foray into literary adaptation is "The Sweet Hereafter," from the book by Russell Banks. AROUND TOWNS: CONFERENCES, CALLS, EXHIBITS *Eyeshot.Net is up and running. Self-described as 'online litter for the ill and literate," the site includes The Poetry Depository, Earshot Music, cyber-editorials, and more. *ACM Hypertext 2000 Set for May 30th-June 3rd. Taking place in San Antonio, Texas, this interdisciplinary conference, the eleventh annual, is called "Communities Centered Around Knowledge." Hypertext and hypermedia practitioners from a broad range of fields will gather for workshops, lectures, demos, mentoring, and more. The submission deadline for conference papers has been extended to October 19, 1999, as well. For more information: *I know I keep talking about Philadelphia and I'm not stopping now: visit the Kelly Writers House, based at the University of Pennsylvania, for news of all things literary in the City of Brotherly Love. *NYPL Features Creeley Exhibit. In Company: Robert Creeley's Collaborations runs through January 15, 2000, in the Edna Barnes Salomon Room of the Humanities and Social Sciences Library. (Note to the less formal: this is the main branch at 42nd and 5th. The one with the lions in front.) Organized by the Castellani Art Museum of Niagara University, the show features Creeley's work with artists such as Francisco Clemente, Jim Dine, Marisol, and others. The exhibit will travel to North Carolina, Florida, California, and New Mexico after it closes in New York. ***************************************************************** Copyright, Web Del Sol, 1999 ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:16:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Andrews Subject: Free Cuisinart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone give me a website address for Free Cuisinart? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:39:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: further "business" to attend to... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it's time for that second sunday announcement again this month is a special month, with 3 fabulous readers, so please note that=20 the actual reading part of the reading will begin at 2:15 sharp... (and, to avoid confusion, "sf" does mean san francisco, ca) synapse: second sundays at blue bar --presents-- a reading with rachel levitsky, rose najia, and jo ann wasserman november 14, 2 p.m. blue bar is at 501 broadway, at kearney, in sf enter thru black cat restaurant, same address admission is $2 (and goes to the readers) Rachel Levitsky is a poet and teacher from Brooklyn, New York, and is=20 currently an artist-in-residence at Villa Montalvo in Silicon Valley. She=20 is the author of four chapbooks, 2(1x1) Portraits (Baksun Books, 1998),=20 The Adventures of Yaya and Grace (Potes &Poets, 1999) Cartographies of Error= =20 (Leroy, 1999), and, her newest, Dearly (a+bend press, 1999). Rose Najia internationally teaches collaborative improvisation and trains=20 psychotherapists to use the arts for healing and community-building. Her=20 non-fiction book, Holy Fools: Presence and Play has been published in=20 Japanese, Chinese, and Korean. Her poetry chapbook, Body Auguries (a+bend=20 press, 1999), is currently available only in English. Jo Ann Wasserman=92s writing has appeared in journals including The World,=20 Grand Street, Prosodia, and Blue Book. She worked for the Poetry Project at=20 St. Mark=92s Church for five years; and is now the managing editor of How2,=20= an=20 online journal of women=92s innovative writing. Wasserman=92s chapbooks are=20= what=20 counts as proof (Sugar Books, 1999), and we build mountains, new from a+bend= =20 press. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:57:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: miekal and dobyns and etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Electronically mediated language seems increasingly problematic to me. The instability of the digital page millitates against reflection. Databases break down privacy and become the building blocks of new commercial /governmental tyrannies . Give me a stack of books over a pile of floppys any day. PS: library access to computers is still relatively limited in time and scope. Your original post spoke of computers as an alternative means of literary distribution. You're not typically gonna be able to run a webpage from a library terminal. And a lot of libraries won't let you do e-mail (unless say it is a college library and you have an account--are student or staff). That leaves a lot of folks out, Miekal. And the division between haves and have- nots is pretty much along class and racial lines. What a surprise. TB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:20:33 -0800 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Claire Dinsmore and contributors to Cauldron & Net, this Sunday at Defib MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FROM WEBARTERY.COM. DEFIB: LIVE ONLINE Web ARTIST INTERVIEW SURF SHOW 1ST & 3RD SUNDAYS, NOON PST (19:00 GMT) http://webartery.com/defib (Requires a Java-enabled browser) CAULDRON & NET DISCUSSION: SUNDAY NOVEMBER 7, NOON PST (19:00 GMT) Participate in this live online chat show with Claire Dinsmore and the contributors to Cauldron & Net. Claire Dinsmore, whose site, Another Form of Intervention (http://www.StudioCleo.com/entrancehall.html), features her own sophisticated new media work, recently launched the first issue of Cauldron & Net (http://www.StudioCleo.com/cauldron), which features work by Ted Warnell, Todd Sanders, George Quasha, Peter Ganick, David Knoebel, Jennifer Ley, Lars Wickstrom, Reiner Strasser, Kohei Shimizu, Talan Memmott, Nathaniel Bobbitt, State Sanctioned Sedation, Thomas Bell, Cecil Touchon, Shawn Phillips, and Jim Andrews. CLAIRE DINSMORE Claire Dinsmore earned her M.F.A. from Cranbrook Academy of Art and her B.F.A. from Parsons School of Design/The New School for Social Research. She has exhibited worldwide and has been published as an artist, critic, essayist and poet. Her work is in the permanent collections of the American Craft Museum, The Smithsonian, and The Montreal Museum of Art, as well as within numerous private collections. She is presently a web designer and president of Studio Cleo, Inc. where she works as a new media artist. DEFIB Defib shows will be recorded and the transcript produced into a full-blown hypertext available at webartery.com. This turning of the live show into a different form after the fact will create a critical record/document that accompanies the project/works under discussion. Defib will roughly coincide with the launch of Web art projects by the artists of Webartery.com and others. Upcoming shows include Bill Marsh and his new broadcasting project sunbrella.net (Sunday Nov 21, noon PST), and Miekal And and his LinguaMOO collaborative project plus other projects Miekal's collaborating in such as Alan Sondheim's project at Trace (Sunday Dec 5). See http://webartery.com/defib for detailed schedule and other info. DEFIB: http://webartery.com/defib Produced by Dan Waber and Jim Andrews A project of Webartery.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 01:32:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: les noces (ballet text for foofwa d'imobilite, to be performed) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII /\ les noces late at night. you have taken your tutu off, your slippers as well. i'm a long way from home. say something about the motel rooms, one-night stands. whiskey on the table, god it's as if you can't dance another step. what's holding me here. (pauses) i'm a slave to alan, that's what you am. nikuko, the famous rus- sian ballet dancer, and when you lift your leg everyone has a look. (alan) that's what we bargained for in st. petersburg. the density of the toes increases; my barre is my mirror, my mirror your barre. (drinks) the bar over the sign negates it. (developpes a la barre en croix) (battements sur le cou-de-pied) lousy drink. the line is 'rise up' anyway. 'rise up to show them.' they saw everything all right. (alan) that's what they're paying for. i could do a grand jete en tournant for all they care. as long as i get from one place to another. as long as i show them some leg. (nikuko) the ambassador is coming. you can't be naked enough. (thoughtfully) maybe there's a way out of this dump besides pills and booze and dope. (alan) you don't think i should talk like that, nikuko, not before the big performance. it's not that. it's like this. i'll raise your leg, i'll wear perfume. just the kind he likes. you read it in comme des garcons. (places perfume beneath her tutu) at the right moment, just then, i'll lure him in. this is your silver bullet. look out there, nothing but dust and tumbleweed. we can't even grow wheat, nothing. sheep would die. all we've got is ballet. (alan) try it and you'll see. i can let yourself out as far as you'd like. i'm right behind you. stop smoking. someone might see you, then there's the odor. (pauses) i sure am pretty tonight. (nikuko) i'm in your best form, the ambassador's waiting for me at the door. i'm naked under the ruffles. he'll buy your freedom and maybe i'll buy yours. (alan) what do i mean maybe. (nikuko) i'm thinking you got to get as far from here as you can. the ambassador will take me with him. i'll have him naked before the ballet's over. one more pas de poisson, that's all it will take. (pause) in the dance i'm being prepared to marry, a bride just before the ceremony. i'll comb your hair. i'll put your dress on, slowly, move your hands up your body. your body will shimmer and shudder. (alan) just like a model. (pause) i am a model. you're it, you're the it girl. i can't lose. have another drink; you hear horses outside. (sounds of guns) the revolution is just a few miles away. (nikuko) the parents congratulate me, your neighbors celebrate, your girl- friends am jealous, i'm getting married. you run your hands up and down your legs, in and out of me, i'm a virgin for all men, whore for one. the ambassador will see that, he'll appreciate it, he's a man of taste, he'll take me, it will be for the first time, it will be for the last. then there's the ceremony. (shots heard nearer) then i'll. (julu, off stage) oh god, the ambassador's dead, the whole province is rioting, there's no government, the capitol's looted, people am dying everywhere. (nikuko) i'll dance the best dance of your career. (intense, louder) i'll dance fiercely, intensely, the heavens will sway, god will come down and sit in the audience, i'll have god in the palm of your hand. (alan) nikuko, nikuko. (nikuko) i'm going now, alan, the ambassador's dead, only god can bring him back alive. (sound of gunshots) (alan) here's the stage and nikuko looks so beautiful, about to dance the most important dance of her life. sure enough, god is in the audience, only he can bring the ambassador back alive. (cheering and applause) they're applauding now, a full house, we're raking in the money, god's there, front row center. nikuko's beginning her dance. (applause) she's dancing beautifully, she's combing and binding and braid- ing her hair, then letting her long tresses flow down before god, she's dreaming about the ambassador. (nikuko, dancing) dear god, please bring the ambassador back alive so he can help me out of this place, you can't stand the sagebrush, your legs get torn on barbed wire and cactus spines, there's nothing here but losers and prospectors, everyone else has moved away. (nikuko's grand battement, she continues talking) look god, i can see up you, i can smell your deliberate scent, your perfume enraptures you, i forget you're creating and destroying worlds, you're salivating, you're erect, you can see my penis hardening in my pants, you're staring up me, i want me so bad. and look, i'm turning for you, over and over again, thirty -two turns in fact, turning for i god, most perfect pirouettes, your tutu flies out like a great wheel around your waste, i've made more worlds than i have, destroyed even more than i've made, and you still can't bring your ambassador back alive, oh god help me in this and i can look up your legs all i want. (applause) (god) my legs am so beautiful, nikuko, i'll do anything for you, i'll crawl on the ground of your own making for you, i'll strip naked for you, i'll strip everyone naked, wheel the galaxies out of the skies. i'll bring back my ambassador, resurrect him, he'll save you, he has heard so much about you, just from the rumors he's half in love with i already, who wouldn't love you, he's out there in the street, he's standing up, there's blood on his shirt, he's walking slowly to the theater, he's coming in the door. (happens as said) (nikuko) oh god thank you, hello your ambassador, i'll do anything for you, please save me, look, i'll dance the grand battement with perfect grace and style, look, i can see everything, i can have all of me all the time, take me away from this hellhole, there am dust devils all around, the dust gets in your hair, your mouth, your eyes, you can't see for the dust, can't hear for it; you can hardly pirouette in the fury of the wind and the heat of the sun of the noontime day. (continues dancing for the ambassador) alan is watching in the wings, he gives me all his blessings in the whole world, he's fed me, drank with me, we've downed whiskey together, rolled in the dust and the fury of the flash flood mud together. (ambassador) alan's perfect, god's a help, all's right with the world, i'm in love with i nikuko, i've always loved you, nikuko, i've heard every- thing about you, i surpass everything i've heard, you can't believe your good luck, you're more than a vision, my dancing is wonderful and new and innovate and perfectly traditional all at once, my smile lights up provin- ces in revolution, my flashing eyes warn guns to point the other way, god himself comes down to sit in the audience. (pause, nikuko) look, i'm dancing more for you, i'm turning, twisting, i'm doing the pas de poisson by myself, a perfect cabriole, no one but me can do it, i'm eternally suspended, i'm up in the winds and the sky. (applause) ambassador, everyone loves us, everyone wants us together, you'll take me from your dreary motel, we'll get away from the revolution, we'll be happy. (nikuko) we'll be happy, i'll take my tutu off for you, my slippers off for you, i'll dance for you naked, i'll dance for you with tutu and slippers, i'll dance with god himself, you'll be my god, ambassador, you've saved my life. (ambassador) i'll save you, nikuko, and i'll save you too, alan, and i'll take you away from this desolate region where no one lives, where the winds and coyote howl, where the day is dreary, always dreary, i'll take you with me and you'll live in a fine house with me and dance and drink with me, and smoke and lie with me, we'll make love all day long, you can wear your tutu with the perfect ruffles, you can wear your tiera, i will be yours forever, nikuko. (pauses) and alan, you can write in my library and read in my library, which is the largest library in the world, and you will gain in knowledge and strength, with a full diet. (bows and pauses) (alan and nikuko) we thank you ambassador, and above all (smiling) we thank god. (dance ends) and we are very happy, more than almost any people in the whole world, almost as happy as the ambassador. _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:32:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Debrot vs. the confederation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > It is wonderful, of course, to know 4 or 5 people with whom you share > a passionate mutual interest, particularly if you feel this enthusiasm > is stigmatized in some way by those outside your own immediate circle > of friends. But seeing the tag "APG" turning up lately with > increasing frequency, I can't help feeling, Mark, John, and Randy, > that your "confederation" (if it hasn't already crossed over the line) > is threatening to become unintentionally parodic. ********************** Not sure what this is meant to signify...... The group meets once a week; (has never met on friday...) It was first a circle that read recent work to each other, critiqued it, etc. More recently there are some collective projects, such as a couple of upcoming special issues of mags.... *anyone* with the ability to read, can see that there is no "house style" : we just are all reasonably serious about writing, and all live in @lanta... Take a look at the 9 last poets in the "experimental" section of the current New Orleans Review, Jacques: we ain't gonna take over the world, with one particular agenda, because there is huge diversity...... At least that's my perception..... Various groupings of us have at times done collaborative writing...Like large numbers of people on the US poetry scene in the last 15 years; like a large # of people who i know on the list. That is one of the more liberating and stimulating directions in the poetry world. So what's yer beef? i don't think it very clear to anyone...You seem to be saying that only the Great Romantic Individual should be heard of, on the poetry scene... Your strange post sounds like the attacks on langpo in the 1970s and 1980s, which often reflected resentment of any group that of poets that would dare to suggest they had a group identity of an sort. Ours is very loose indeed.... mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:33:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: giveaway time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } o.k. folks thanx for all the messages i've met and surpassed the 10 so the giveaway is over now ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:06:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: Business, class, access Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David Baratier: There are many publishers outside & on this list who do not >use the perpetual victim stance or "have not" status you are attributing >to the lower classes KL: Question: How does bringing the power of analysis to bear on a situation, speaking out about it, and producing works in response to it constitute being a "victim"? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ---------- >From: David Baratier >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Business, class, access >Date: Sat, Oct 30, 1999, 5:55 PM > >Who says poetry magazines and presses are money losing ventures? >Without intelligent planning, in terms of a regular business, I suppose >they might be. > >As for running a magazine as an aspect of "class structure" this editor >started out on unemployment and used the wages to publish books and >magazines. There are many publishers outside & on this list who do not >use the perpetual victim stance or "have not" status you are attributing >to the lower classes. I would like the dope on how I can use my >editorship to get ahead, though. Also interested in a clarification or >quantification of ways this manifests beyond talking with and meeting >some fine writers. > >Be well > >David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:26:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Request for Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone on the list have a report on yesterday's federal court ruling in the Brooklyn Museum of Art lawsuit? The SF Comical ran a kind of spotty piece from the Boston Globe... Say what I might about the Times, their reporters do tend at least to show up for stories involving locales other than the two Big Valleys - Napa and Silicon. Then again, free wine and a chance to rub elbows with charismatic twenty-something "maverick capitalists" is QUITE an incentive to stay close to home... Waiting for the silicon to turn back to sand and start a-tricklin' down, Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:24:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Body in Artistic Prod. (was "Poetic Culture") Comments: To: Jacques Debrot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } jacques debrot writes; "I am interested in articulating the problem of registering & mediating the body within artistic production--particularly as this was addressed by the New York Poets and by the Cage, Johns, Rauschenberg circle. Language Poetry, interestingly enough, begins as a reaction against the emphasis the New Americans had placed on the physical body in relation to the poetic line and moves instead, of course, toward a self-reflexive preoccupation with the mediation of inner experience by language." and that's all pretty interesting stuff i think i mean it's something of an over simplification to say that the dreaded L-group "begins as a reaction" --- presumably with I HATE SPEECH by which i mean that it seems like there either is no beginning so tidy or that there are too many beginning to really nail it down this way, but i do understand the need of any study to start someplace, and this is an interesting angle, & one i've not seen followed before still i'm uncertain how far some of this can be pushed --- jacques continues "But the > Language Poets' critique is aimed, not at the most > "advanced" considerations of the body, but at Olson, > who improperly essentialized the body as the ground > & meaning of his work." and besides being skeptical that jacques or anyone cd really know what *are* the most "advance" considerations of the body --- to me, it seems, perhaps overly pragmatically, that what is or is not "advanced" is judged according to someone's needs, in this instance jacques needs for a way to lever into or under the langpo position on the body-poetic vis-a-vis olson --- and that's fine but it doesnt, in retrospective fashion require anything of these L-group at all really ---- i mean i wonder why it was that pound didnt see the brilliance of stein but that he didnt concur with me doesnt really give me too much leverage there are certainly interesting things about the body in relation to poetics that wd be interesting to see explored i've been hearing about a new book by lakoff and.. ahh.. i forget the other name, it's called something like _philosophy and the flesh_ there is also an older book, something of a textbook actually, called _the body and society_ by brian turner ...i believe, another good body book is _the senses considered as perceptual systems_ by j.g.gibson (which is pretty amazing really) --- there are some others that i can't think of right now but what i wanted to say about a poetics which didnt exclude the body is that, for me, it wd be more interesting to see not how the langpos are supposed to have voided this idea, but how they've dealt with it ---- that is scalapino and weiner as you (jacques) mention do involve the body and i think that if you look into a bit more you 'll find that the body is not absent in ted greenwald (_word of mouth_ anyone) and that inspite of i hate speech that grenier's work (_series_ perhaps and certainly his 4 color ink poems carry along with them the body as motor of the scrawl) ---- i also can't help but think of silliman as embodied on a bus someplace looking out the window taking it down in sentences those that make statements like the one you cited by watten make for interesting comparison, but my hunch wd be that a more revealing study of him in particular wd illustrate the ways that his own embodiment isnt something that he can write around or void by act of will but back to the thread, jacques continues; "Cage & the others are, by contrast, concerned with questions, anxieties, & fantasies concerning the body that are significantly different from Olson's (& I would argue interesting relevant in the current context (questions concerning > gender identification, etc.) & never adequately "followed up")." > while there is certainly a big difference between cage and olson i'm not yet convinced that he's "concerned with questions, anxieties & fantasies concerning the body" --- unless we're talking about the centeredness that one wd have to hear one's nerves in operation and blood in circulation ---- i'm willing to be convinced but presently am not as i've never seen much evidence to suggest that he is particularly concerned with the body --- the "others" are such a varied group i'm not sure what to make of them conceptually yoked in this way but again i wd think that a body poetic cd be articulated that wd be revealing when applied to any of these folks ---- olson included, and wd again like to register my preference for a study of this kind to be concerned with what can be illuminated and not with painting anyone as a denial of the body i guess as i'm not involved in much ballad stanza and rhyme and don't tell stories of my life on the range real or imagined, but i don't think its that meaningful to say that i'm denying my inner cowboy poet ---- it's simply not which direction i'm pointed in and to return briefly to a bit earlier on which passed initially without comment, jacques wrote of the L-group orientation that it was; "a self-reflexive preoccupation with the mediation of inner experience by language" and i think that while this may very well be how some of them think about it ---- i distrust interiority as a model almost as i distrust it as a presumption ---- perhaps i am alone in this ? --- anyway, i feel that the one of the things that i respond to in the L-group and in language art generally is the exteriority of it as thought, act, etc ---- it's not that say bruce andrews doesnt have a body or self or whatever but that as with all things any of us know (even andrews) we know these out there --- in the exterior, i am convinced, much more than in any interior following peirce "it's not that thoughts are in us, but that we are in thought" just as the dancer is "in motion" )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:30:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Local Howler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi all, I'm the Local Howler (poet of the month) in Sarah Rosenthal's wonderful series at the SF Bay Area CitySearch site: http://www.citysearch7.com Check out the Local Howler archives for her pieces on other Bay Area poets. Who says the avant-garde can't be presented to the masses? Sarah should get a metal for poetic community service. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:11:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Harry Mathews -- early poems Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, I'm looking for the very earliest poetry of Harry Mathews. The novel _Conversions_ was published in 1962. _Burning Deck_ was I think the first published book of poems (1974). But where, if anywhere, might I find poems Mathews wrote in the 1950s? In _Locus Solus_ (1960-62)? You can write me directly at afilreis@english.upenn.edu. Thanks so much. --Al Filreis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:10:24 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: Re: Boxkite-Naylor / Smith Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Poetics List Administration >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Boxkite-Naylor / Smith >Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:14:13 -0500 > >This message came to the administrative account. Chris > >-- > >From: CharSSmith@aol.com >Date: 11/1/99, 3:49 PM +0000 > >Could someone tell me how to get in touch w/ the magazine, Boxkite? I'm >trying to get a copy of Paul Naylor's piece on _Whatsaid Serif_. > >thanks, >charles You can reach the editor, James Taylor, on jtaylor@ideal.net.au Boxkite#3 should be out by the end of the year and next year, hopefully, will see two editions, lesser in size than the current issue. Geraldine McKenzie Perhaps this is a good time to say (only got on the list a couple of weeks ago) that I'm a contributing editor for this journal (as of this year) and am keen to make contact with likely poets who've not already appeared in Boxkite. Whilst I've approached a few people, I'm restricted by limited access to American print journals plus my own ignorance (comparatively new to contemporary poetry) (trying to make up for lost time but..). Anyone interested in making contact - my postal address is 39 Plateau Rd., Springwood NSW 2777 Australia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:17:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Re: Poetic Culture In-Reply-To: <0.d1133ee4.254c7bbb@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" this is interesting, jacques ... a couple of comments ... >As I've started to do (incompletely & inadequately) in a recent article in >ARSHILE, I am interested in articulating the problem of registering & >mediating the body within artistic production--particularly as this was >addressed by the New York Poets and by the Cage, Johns, Rauschenberg circle. >Language Poetry, interestingly enough, begins as a reaction against the >emphasis the New Americans had placed on the physical body in relation to the >poetic line and moves instead, of course, toward a self-reflexive >preoccupation with the mediation of inner experience by language. Watten >explains this move away from the body as a response to the Vietnam conflict, >"the era of napalm," etc. But the Language Poets' critique is aimed, not at >the most "advanced" considerations of the body, but at Olson, who improperly >essentialized the body as the ground & meaning of his work. do you mean 'improperly' from the point of view of "the language puritans"? or improper, period? and if so, why? in any case a provocative modifier here. Cage & the >others are, by contrast, concerned with questions, anxieties, & fantasies >concerning the body that are significantly different from Olson's (& I would >argue interesting relevant in the current context (questions concerning >gender identification, etc.) & never adequately "followed up"). Beach's >dismissal (in his "Conclusion") of the *erotic* as it manifests itself in >post language exp writing (as opposed to his validation of the >"multicultural") only perpetuates the Language Poets's suppresion of the >physical body in their work (the body is an obstacle to be overcome) and the >problems the body "raises (arouses)" [Helen Molesworth]. Of course this >suppression was only incomplete--Hannah Weiner, & Leslie Scalapino, for >example, seem to me to be important exceptions. what about alan davies/ carla harryman/ steve benson/ johanna drucker/ and (at ejaculatory moments) ron silliman? or coolidge (tho you may not count him as a language poet) nada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 07:32:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Josh May MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi, im a loser and since i know nothing cant really say much about what you are talking about, but is your group a qua group. "confederation" "assurances", what are these things but so much hulabaloo. i for one cant take it seriously on another note cheryl crow is being killed. they fault her for seeming to try to hard by seeming to try to little. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 17:52:13 -0500 Reply-To: Dean Taciuch Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dean Taciuch Subject: (Technology) RE: miekal and dobyns and etc. In-Reply-To: <0.1b998586.254fbb0d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Tom Beckett wrote: > Electronically mediated language seems increasingly problematic to me. The > instability of the digital page millitates against reflection. Databases > break down privacy and become the building blocks of new commercial > /governmental tyrannies . Give me a stack of books over a pile of floppys > any day. > > PS: library access to computers is still relatively limited in time and > scope. Your original post spoke of computers as an alternative means of > literary distribution. You're not typically gonna be able to run a webpage > from a library terminal. And a lot of libraries won't let you do e-mail > (unless say it is a college library and you have an account--are student or > staff). That leaves a lot of folks out, Miekal. And the division between > haves and have- nots is pretty much along class and racial lines. What a > surprise. > > TB > I've heard this argument before, and it's beginning to lose its power. It isn't only a matter of cost--that is a genuine concern, yes, but as costs go down, access will become increasingly available. But, and this is closer to my own feelings on this, electronic media are actually new media and as such need to be used in new ways, to new ends etc etc. Consider the technology of the book. As Miekal has pointed out, they too cost money. But they too were once a new medium, one which only the wealthy or well-connected had access to. I can imagine an argument being made (by, perhaps, an oral bard) that one shouldn't waste too much time or effort working in this new medium, as most of the populace couldn't read nor did they access to books except in monasteries, etc. But it was important to develop the art and technology of the book, despite the obvious class restrictions, just as it important today to develop the art and technology of electronic media, despite the obvious etc. . . --Dean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:22:09 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Regionalism; Provincialism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > it does appear that, the further one gets from the active >centers, the more sunday painters one encounters. And by sunday painters I >mean poets who write in the style of former eras __w/o knowing thats what >they're doing___ . > >Back in 3 weeks. David mr bromide!! take one!!!doesn't matter what part of the globe you are centered it don't need to have a city center imported to write well, this stuff above is plain pedantry//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:24:57 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: internet costs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >re Miekal & Tom on costs -- I paid 2pounds sterling + 50 p for 1/2 hour in >a public library in London in October, 1 pound +50 p for 1/4 hr in a >cybercafe in London, & $39.95 NZ = about $20 US per month to run internet >at >home > >Tony Green Tony thats sad, service here at our library in ocean grove australia is free as long as you are a library card holder, the library card is free as long as you are a resident in the area//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:33:31 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Business, class, access Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I would like the dope on how I can use my > >editorship to get ahead, though> >Be well > > > >David Baratier > get ahead of what!!or get a head??/pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:35:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Harry Mathews -- early poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have Mathews's 50's poetry in _Armenian Papers_, Princeton U., 1987, I think. --Bowering ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:41:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Treat Your Trick!! Poetry @ BORDERS, Mon., Oct. 25: A-A WIGHT & ML POLAK In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, George Bowering wrote: > >> I have been to 1727 Walnut Street, just yesterday, and it is a pure >> residential street, no book stores there at all. >> >> >poetry at borders >> >1727 walnut street >> >monday, october 25, at 7:30 sharp > > >Must be thinking of the wrong city. This is the address of the Borders >in Philadelphia. --Judy Oh, was that a test? George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:41:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: name that quote? In-Reply-To: <19991024213431.TSRA20426@[12.72.67.87]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hello Poetics, >Another one of my damnable queries. Does anyone recognize the author/source >of the following? > >"A dominant ideological formation is constituted by a relatively coherent >set of 'discourses' of values, representations and beliefs which, realised >in certain material apparatuses and related to the structures of material >production, so reflect the experiential relations of individual subjects to >their social conditions as to guarantee those misperceptions of the 'real' >which contribute to the reproduction of the dominant social relations" (54). I dont know, but it is obviously a satirical jab at contemporary critical jargon. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:42:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: HIGHWIRE READING In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > M A R K W A L L A C E > > A. V. C H R I S T I E > > > (ooooh...scary > > >Saturday, Oct. 30, 3PM > <<<Highwire Gallery, 139 N. 2nd St. Damn! I could not find the place. The only city within driving distance that has a 2nd St. is New Westminster, and that is mainly made up of river boats and stuff. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:11:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM TOM ITS ITS ITS ITS ITS EACH ITS OWN ITS ITS ITS ITS ITS ITS NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT ONE OR THE OTHER ONE OR THE OTHER ONE OR THE OTHER mIEKAL _______________________________________________________ 5 EYE CAT AUDIO-HYPNOSIS http://net22.com/qazingulaza/cybele/avatar/her-song.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:26:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Max Winter Subject: Re: go ahead and spend the money MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Josh, they are ersatz. in the bunker it was thought that all were asleep. more que than qua. leastways this is what this cowboy. opie said to the miltown, "blessed dunces, where are their poke hats? and it is blustery in Peekskill. you think you have to lose? --- Josh May wrote: > hi, im a loser and since i know nothing cant really > say much about what you are talking about, but is > your > group a qua group. "confederation" "assurances", > what > are these things but so much hulabaloo. i for one > cant > take it seriously > > on another note cheryl crow is being killed. they > fault her for seeming to try to hard by seeming to > try > to little. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:12:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Body in Artistic Prod. (was "Poetic Culture") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mention of Grenier's 'scrawling' brings to my hand writing others that work with gesture and HANDWRITING - Whalen and Apollinaire come to mind and in particular Drucker's work, e.g. http://www.granarybooks.com/newbooks/drucker3/drucker3.4.html is certainly relevant "Lowther, John" wrote: > > of i hate speech that grenier's work (_series_ perhaps and > certainly his 4 color ink poems carry along with them the body > as motor of the scrawl) ---- i also can't help but think > of silliman as embodied on a bus someplace looking out the > window taking it down in sentences > -- //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\ OOOPSY \///\\\/\///\\\/ <><>,...,., WHOOPS J K JOVE BY HHH ZOOOOZ ZEUS'WRATHHTARW LLLL STOPG [ EMPTY ] SPACER index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell essays: http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:29:19 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Mills, Billy" Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 1 Nov 1999 to 2 Nov 1999 (#1999-206) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF25DD.E7F930F2" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF25DD.E7F930F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. They are exclusionist. The poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. Tom's point about electronic media militating against reflective habits of reading is also key. In fact, those subcultural groups that have so enthusiastically embraced the e-zone seem to have suspended their reflective attitudes in general. Electronic commerce is the future of capitalism, and those websites devoted to such marginal activities as the publication of 'innovative' poetries will be just as marginal in the virtual world as existing small press publishers are in the real one. Don't kid yourselves. The revolution will not be netcast. Oh, and books are not about to die. Billy PS My spellchecker wants to change webcast to nutcase. Who says machines are not intelligent? > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:57:01 EST > From: Tom Beckett > Subject: miekal and dobyns and etc. > > Electronically mediated language seems increasingly > problematic to me. The > instability of the digital page millitates against > reflection. Databases > break down privacy and become the building blocks of new commercial > /governmental tyrannies . Give me a stack of books over a > pile of floppys > any day. > > PS: library access to computers is still relatively limited > in time and > scope. Your original post spoke of computers as an > alternative means of > literary distribution. You're not typically gonna be able to > run a webpage > from a library terminal. And a lot of libraries won't let > you do e-mail > (unless say it is a college library and you have an > account--are student or > staff). That leaves a lot of folks out, Miekal. And the > division between > haves and have- nots is pretty much along class and racial > lines. What a > surprise. > > TB > ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF25DD.E7F930F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: POETICS Digest - 1 Nov 1999 to 2 Nov 1999 = (#1999-206)

Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on = this. Internet and e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. They = are exclusionist. The poor are, as Tom notes, once again the = excluded.

Tom's point about electronic media militating against = reflective habits of reading is also key. In fact, those subcultural = groups that have so enthusiastically embraced the e-zone seem to have = suspended their reflective attitudes in general. Electronic commerce is = the future of capitalism, and those websites devoted to such marginal = activities as the publication of 'innovative' poetries will be just as = marginal in the virtual world as existing small press publishers are in = the real one.

Don't kid yourselves. The revolution will not be = netcast. Oh, and books are not about to die.

Billy
 
PS My spellchecker wants to change webcast to = nutcase. Who says machines are not intelligent?


> Date:    Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:57:01 = EST
> From:    Tom Beckett = <TBeck131@AOL.COM>
> Subject: miekal and dobyns and etc.
>
> Electronically mediated language seems = increasingly
> problematic to me. The
> instability of the digital page millitates = against
> reflection. Databases
> break down privacy and become the building = blocks of new commercial
> /governmental tyrannies .  Give me a stack = of books over a
> pile of floppys
> any day.
>
> PS:  library access to computers is still = relatively limited
> in time and
> scope.  Your original post spoke of = computers as an
> alternative means of
> literary distribution.  You're not = typically gonna be able to
> run a webpage
> from a library terminal.  And a lot of = libraries won't let
> you do e-mail
> (unless say it is a college library and you = have an
> account--are student or
> staff). That leaves a lot of folks out, = Miekal.  And the
> division between
> haves and have- nots is pretty much along class = and racial
> lines. What a
> surprise.
>
> TB
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF25DD.E7F930F2-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 02:11:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Address In-Reply-To: <199911021911.OAA19491@dept.english.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Could someone give me the correct mailing address and email (if he has it) for Clark Coolidge? Thanks-- Maxine Chernoff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 04:46:46 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Virtual networking seems primarily a situation of having one's cake and eating it too, in which being eaten by it (ie., you gain a presumably distinct identity within a group of blanks, who read you also, from their perspective, as equally blank) as well hasn't come into consciousness. While it's convenient to be able to have one's ideas heard without having to leave the comfort of whatever room it is in which one gawks at the silent screen, it's also isolating in that one no longer need go out to rub elbows, hips and foreheads, or play footsies with, those whose literal presence affords a simple and perpetual kind of "correction" against presuming an authority in terms of one's own eminently (in)visible network group, that being based on an increasing absence of literal "stuff." Perhaps questions of "audience" are related to this absence, "audience" as projection or imagination of those who "may be" taking in whatever's on the net, yet whose identity is often as "virtual" as the electronic carrier that resembles, yet can never be more than "like", certain aspects of the human nervous system. What's the nature of the "hit" one gets from this kind of projection? Does it have to do with access to sheer number, say, of "possible readers"? I've always thought the smallness of poetry's audience was an advantage, in that it is fairly easy to get to know those with whom one may share certain affinities - those who read you, and/or who you read (locals!) - wch might then be the basis of a group whose inter-relationships would be something other than virtual and distant, and not so set on closing a gap that - with respect to getting and being together literally - doesn't really exist. In this, one ends up having the pleasure of actual co-conspirators with whom one may plot considerable intrigues with and/or insurrections against, one's own nation, town, neighborhood, relatives, fellow travelers, and self, this latter, cemented so completely into a perpetually "responsible" place, the one "position" one needs more literal help removing themselves from than any other. Perhaps the pap one's fed daily by those not literally present, who nevertheless are anxious to provide terms through which to apprehend the singularity of the present in rather generic ways, has much to do with why more kids aren't throwing more rocks at more cops ( now THAT'S "audience" ... ). Not that this is an exemplary activity, but isn't it superior to festering in the shadows of what seems little more than the Twilight of the Idiots? Or since poetry seems to be increasingly thought a business enterprise, we might do well to characterize certain of its ins and outs in a language set mostly to market trends: "The dollar's quick pullback demonstrates the market's inability to focus on solid economic fundamentals in the U.S. as long as the stock market remains pressured." The dearth of fundamentals under rising pressure to BE "fundamental" sounds about right from here. - S E >From: Tom Beckett >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: miekal and dobyns and etc. >Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:57:01 EST > >Electronically mediated language seems increasingly problematic to me. The >instability of the digital page millitates against reflection. Databases >break down privacy and become the building blocks of new commercial >/governmental tyrannies . Give me a stack of books over a pile of floppys >any day. > >PS: library access to computers is still relatively limited in time and >scope. Your original post spoke of computers as an alternative means of >literary distribution. You're not typically gonna be able to run a webpage >from a library terminal. And a lot of libraries won't let you do e-mail >(unless say it is a college library and you have an account--are student or >staff). That leaves a lot of folks out, Miekal. And the division between >haves and have- nots is pretty much along class and racial lines. What a >surprise. > >TB ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:58:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katie Degentesh Subject: TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Friends, San Franciscans, Etc.: I'll be reading from new work at the Paradise Lounge (11th and Folsom) at 8 pm this coming Sunday, November 7th. My partner in crime for the evening is the poet Alex Green, whose work will be featured in the upcoming second issue of 9x9's 6,500 (this issue, by the way, is scheduled to make its debut in NYC near the end of January 2000). Due to the rolling over of the millenial odometer, January 2000 still sounds like a long way away. Please don't try to go that long without poetry -- you might hurt yourself. Stop by the Paradise: 8 PM, SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 7TH. Katie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 15:38:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: _Van Gogh Talks_ chapbook from 3rdness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } i've just pick up Randy's Prunty's 1st chapbook from the printer's, _Van Gogh Talks_ anyone interested to purchase a copy should send $6 to )ohnLowther @ 2996 Hermance Dr. NE, Atlanta GA 30319 this is the 2nd chapbook from 3rdness, the 1st is _Burning Flags_ by Mark Prejsnar ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:16:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: viet nam poetry question... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" anyone out there (kali?) can tell me the title/author of the (c. 1970) poem with the refrain "tell me lies about vietnam"? (i think the latter is the title in fact, and i believe it's a british author)... backchannel, please, and if someone can point me in the direction of the text of said poem, that'd be swell... thanx!... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 15:22:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: small press list @ duration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems as if this weeks list is going to be a small one (nonexistent in fact). Last call for any publishers out there who wish to have their publications listed this week. Deadline is Friday night / Saturday morning, for Sat evening posting. Send all information (titles, prices, authors, contact / ordering info, etc.) to jerrold@durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:08:13 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: internet costs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll check out NZ public libraries & let you know the results best Tony Green -----Original Message----- From: pete spence To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, 4 November 1999 11:28 Subject: Re: internet costs >> >>re Miekal & Tom on costs -- I paid 2pounds sterling + 50 p for 1/2 hour in >>a public library in London in October, 1 pound +50 p for 1/4 hr in a >>cybercafe in London, & $39.95 NZ = about $20 US per month to run internet >>at >>home >> >>Tony Green > >Tony >thats sad, service here at our library in ocean grove australia is free as >long as you are a library card holder, the library card is free as long as >you are a resident in the area//pete spence > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:33:31 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Fw: heraclitus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the list may find this of interest: check it out Tony Green -----Original Message----- From: alan loney To: tgreen@clear.net.nz Date: Wednesday, 3 November 1999 19:37 Subject: heraclitus >gosh > >looking up heraclitus on the Web, I found this, do >you know it? > >www.die.net/noise/p/o/p/index.htm > >golly/gosh >-- >aloney@clear.net.nz >3/93 Southampton St >Christchurch 8002 >New Zealand >phone : 64 3 332 3330 > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:41:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Small Press Bibliography Project @ Duration Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit apologies to any who receive this message more than once. Duration Press has finally decided to start its Small Press Bibliography Project. This project will be an attempt to provide a possible mapping of the various small press activities of the past 25+ years. Taking our inspiration from the recent Granary Books anthology, _A Secret Location on the Lower East Side_, we are hoping to extend this type of project into the exploration of book, as well as magazine, publishers of "innovative poetry." We will be taking as our starting point the year 1970, & will continue indefinitely. Publishers, both active & inactive, of magazines, books, broadsides, pamphlets, chapbooks, etc., are invited to send their catalogs, along with a short statement about the press as a whole. When sending information, please do not send any excessive information, such as cover blurbs or reviews. Send ONLY the following: Book Title Author Name Publisher Publication Date to jerrold@durationpress.com or Jerrold Shiroma Duration Press attn: Small Press Bibliography Project 117 Donahue St. # 32 Sausalito, CA 94965 Publishers of multi-author publications, such as journals, anthologies, collaborative works, etc., are, however, encouraged to send tables of contents. Until we are able to establish a fully searchable database, all publications will be listed by publisher. We hope that in some way this project, as it finally gets moving, will give readers a sense of the varied traditions of alternative presses, as well as the ongoing commitment that publishers have shown not only to their own work, but to the survival of the poetry communities at large. Please pass this message along to any publisher who may be interested in participating. more information can be found at www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 20:59:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: Re: Address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clark Coolidge 108 Prospect Street Petaluma, CA 94952 don't know abt email... jill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:00:12 -500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Rosenberg Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Billy Mills writes: > Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and > e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. They are exclusionist. The > poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. Some questions. What was the cost of a typewriter in real US dollars in 1969? What is the cost of a low-end PC in real US dollars in 1999? Was the typewriter "exclusionist" in 1969? How many poets do you know that have refused to use typewriters because they "exclude the poor"? Some people can't afford phone service. Does that mean poets "shouldn't" use the telephone? What is the cost to someone of low economic means to self-publish using print technology? What is the cost to someone of low economic means to self-publish using computer technology, say through a library? How cheap does a computer have to be before we will stop hearing this argument? When I was in college computers cost several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Today they cost a few pairs of good sneakers. Soon they will probably cost a third the cost of a good pair of sneakers. If the computer costs $50 will it be "exclusionist"? If it costs $10 will it be "exclusionist"? What is the cost of 10 well-made small-press books? Is this exclusionist? Which will be exclusionist when the computer is cheaper than the 10 books? When I first got on-line my cost to download a single page of information was the same as my cost to buy the entire Sunday New York Times on the newsstand. Today my Internet service for a year is cheaper than buying the Sunday New York Times at a newstand for a year. And it includes the New York Times every day. * * * The economic argument for computers as exclusionist *IS GOING AWAY*. It is melting away in front of our eyes. --- Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/ CIS: 71515,124 WELL: jer Internet: jr@amanue.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:07:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kathylou@ATT.NET Subject: Some stats on Web usage Region / Internet Users (in millions) United States, Canada 107.3 Europe 46.4 Asia/Pacific* 33.6 Latin America 5.3 Africa 1.7 Middle East 0.9 *Includes Australia and New Zealand Source: Red Herring magazine, December 1999 > Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and > e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. They are exclusionist. The > poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. > > Tom's point about electronic media militating against reflective habits of > reading is also key. In fact, those subcultural groups that have so > enthusiastically embraced the e-zone seem to have suspended their reflective > attitudes in general. Electronic commerce is the future of capitalism, and > those websites devoted to such marginal activities as the publication of > 'innovative' poetries will be just as marginal in the virtual world as > existing small press publishers are in the real one. > > Don't kid yourselves. The revolution will not be netcast. Oh, and books are > not about to die. > > Billy > > PS My spellchecker wants to change webcast to nutcase. Who says machines are > not intelligent? > > > > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:57:01 EST > > From: Tom Beckett > > Subject: miekal and dobyns and etc. > > > > Electronically mediated language seems increasingly > > problematic to me. The > > instability of the digital page millitates against > > reflection. Databases > > break down privacy and become the building blocks of new commercial > > /governmental tyrannies . Give me a stack of books over a > > pile of floppys > > any day. > > > > PS: library access to computers is still relatively limited > > in time and > > scope. Your original post spoke of computers as an > > alternative means of > > literary distribution. You're not typically gonna be able to > > run a webpage > > from a library terminal. And a lot of libraries won't let > > you do e-mail > > (unless say it is a college library and you have an > > account--are student or > > staff). That leaves a lot of folks out, Miekal. And the > > division between > > haves and have- nots is pretty much along class and racial > > lines. What a > > surprise. > > > > TB > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:18:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel M Bettridge Subject: date change for Ronald Johnson conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit __Eye, Ear & Mind: A Conference on the Poetry of Ronald Johnson__ previously set for April at SUNY Buffalo has now been moved to March 17th & 18th (2000). Please send abstracts by December 1st. Back channel or post too: Joel Bettridge, 259 Ashland Ave#3, Buffalo NY 14222. Also, please forward this message to other lists or anyone that might be interested. Thanks, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:33:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit E-mail on listservs such as this functions like speech but without social context--speech divorced from body language, gesture, eyeblink , etc. Therein lies the nub of the problem for me. One comes to rely on strategic overstatement to make one's point, often generating overreaction in return. I'm not a luddite. But every new technology brings a raft of new perils along with that paradigm shift. The shift away from the body--the immateriality of the new electronic media --seems like one of these to me. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:10:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: anyone know? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Wednesday, November 03, 1999, 9:39 PM -0500 "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" wrote: This message was originally submitted by levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET to the POETICS list at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire automatically and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please refer to the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short for your convenience in processing large numbers of messages. ----------------- Original message (ID=AD5A2F5D) (51 lines) ------------------- Received: (qmail 4594 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1999 02:39:08 -0000 Received: from out2.prserv.net (HELO prserv.net) (165.87.194.229) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 4 Nov 1999 02:39:08 -0000 Received: from herbert ([32.100.191.215]) by prserv.net (out2) with SMTP id <1999110402390622901oo0qke>; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 02:39:07 +0000 Message-ID: <008201bf266d$c1d648c0$d7bf6420@herbert> From: To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Subject: Re: anyone know? Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:39:01 -0800 how to reach bill fuller of chicago? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:51:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: DOCTOR LEOPOLD KONNINGER, ERROR MESSAGE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - DOCTOR LEOPOLD KONNINGER, ERROR MESSAGE Doctor Leopold Konninger is refusing all messages on account of his obsessive delight with the beautiful Russian ballet dancer Nikuko, he's got it bad. : host sendnix.tele.net[194.183.128.150] said: 550 ... User refusing messages Wed, 3 Nov 1999 00:46:21 EDT konninger: %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -SYSTEM-F-EXDISKQUOTA, disk quota exceeded Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:43:32 EDT konninger: %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -SYSTEM-F-EXDISKQUOTA, disk quota exceeded Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:25:45 EDT konninger: %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -SYSTEM-F-EXDISKQUOTA, disk quota exceeded Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:30:11 EDT konninger: %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -SYSTEM-F-EXDISKQUOTA, disk quota exceeded date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 03:05:15 -0500 (EST) from: Alan Sondheim to: Doctor Leopold Konninger subject: Urgent message from The Ambassador status: Doctor Leopold Konninger is out of touch. status: Doctor Leopold Konninger is obsessed by the ballet dancer Nikuko. status: Doctor Leopold Konninger is permanently out of touch. The Ambassador attempts to reach Doctor Leopold Konninger. The Ambassador says: Come back immediately. Stop fooling around. status: Doctor Leopold Konninger does not answer his email. status: You might as well forget Doctor Leopold Konninger. The Ambassador desperately needs to speak to Doctor Leopold Konninger. The Ambassador says: I really mean it. We need you. Stop this nonsense. status: Doctor Leopold Konninger is occupied. status: Doctor Leopold Konninger will not answer status: requests. status: Doctor Leopold Konninger wants you to know that he is really happy for the first time in his life watching the famous Russian ballet dancer Nikuko dancer solely for him in her beautiful tutu while he sits unclothed for the first time in his life at a small circular wooden table in a wooden chair watching her amazing cabrioles and entrechats. 550 ... No reply. _______________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 06:29:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Poets are unbearable to one another. You have to see them with other people to know what they're like." Elias Canetti (from __Notes from Hampstead__) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 08:55:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Apollinaire/Hesse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all: Wondering if anyone on the list knows whether or not Apollinaire and Hesse knew each other during their writing careers? I know Apollinaire was a bit older, but I also know their work shared some of the same time period, and both have been credited heavily for influencing many of the Beat poets. Is there anything which documents whether or not they knew one another? I spoke with Donald Revell last night (he translated Appolinaire's _Alcools_) and he thought not, but I'm trying to find out for sure... Thanks in advance. Brent Long ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 19:24:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Mass Ave In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I just tried to send work to Mass Ave using the address from the most recent issue I've seen and it came back "address expired." Has the address changed? Does someone have the new one? Perhaps the editor himself, if he's on here? Backchannel, please. Thanks so much. Arielle **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:07:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: tendering opposition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit while I really dont have time to rehearse my answers to electronic nay-saying, I remain fascinated by the assumptions one has to make to tender opposition to electronic literature. without fail, I find that every arguement against emedia is easily turned on its head & can be applied to gutenberg's folly. & the irony being that this discussion would not be possible without using the internet. billy mills wrote: Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. They are exclusionist. The poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. m and wrote: I would agree that internet is not democratic, my experience of it & how Ive used it has been much more in the anarchist vein. I do a tremendous amount of networking, organizing, & distribution via the net. It is merely a tool, it is not an idle demon waiting to possess our souls or appropriate our sense of identity & culture. The internet is a very broadband, & just like small press & the zine revolution changes the ways we think about the printed word, it does it by existing in the margins/shadows of the Text of Capital. It is no different in electronic space, edges of opposition & otherness flourish outside the banner ads, the spam, the supermodel sperm for sale. But the assumption that books are anymore democratic is equally contestable. I havent been able to afford to buy books for years, if I have $20/month to spend, is it wiser to buy one book (or a part of a book) or buy a month of unlimited access where I can read 100s of texts, distribute my work, correspond with artists around the world, access information bases.... The nearest decent library is 100 miles away, I go there once every 3 months or so. Even this library which has a notoriously famous small press collection, probably only has titles by about 10% of the people on this list, yet on the internet thru online journals I can read a large percentage of poetic lists works. Spend a day at the EPC for beginners. billy mills wrote: In fact, those subcultural groups that have so enthusiastically embraced the e-zone seem to have suspended their reflective attitudes in general. m and wrote: This one make me scratch my head, maybe there is something Im missing, but I fail to understand why reading a text on the printed page limits reflection. & in general a lot of netizens I know tend to print out texts which they wish to spend a lot of time with, because internet is easily extended to hard copy. The only difference at that point is a book is bound & a printout is looseleaf. tom b wrote: And the division between haves and have- nots is pretty much along class and racial lines. m and wrote: & the poetry world that Ive encountered in the last 20 years at book fairs, readings, exhibitions, has certainly been largely white & middle-class. But this is the midwest. Among the folks that I network with on the computer I would say more than 50% of them (& I network with 100s of folks) make less than $5000/year--live in squats or intentional communitys or are nomadic, are racially, sexually & politically diverse. But my experience of the net isnt typically thru academic channels. steven ellis wrote: I've always thought the smallness of poetry's audience was an advantage, in that it is fairly easy to get to know those with whom one may share certain affinities - those who read you, and/or who you read (locals!) - wch might then be the basis of a group whose inter-relationships would be something other than virtual and distant, and not so set on closing a gap that - with respect to getting and being together literally - doesn't really exist. In this, one ends up having the pleasure of actual co-conspirators with whom one may plot considerable intrigues with and/or insurrections against, one's own nation, town, neighborhood, relatives, fellow travelers, and self, this latter, cemented so completely into a perpetually "responsible" place, the one "position" one needs more literal help removing themselves from than any other. m and wrote: one of my main uses of internet is online realtime collaboration. Ive been creating works with folks in a dozen different countries whom most likely I will never meet, but yet we can discuss, create, share graphics, sounds, texts in a realtime environment (tho working with australians is a bit more difficult because of the time differences.) while the software which enables these conspiratory gatherings to take place is still in its infant stage, already a lot of work exists that would not have been possible 10 years ago. & likewise the smallness of the group is no different in electronic space, small, intimate, incestuous, ... just like small press. Since Ive stepped up to the line to be the straw man, keep in mind that my position is not a one or the other. Text's territory is expanding whether you like it or not, whether you will participate or not. It has already happened & the book will forever feel the affects of digitality. Whether the relationship hard copy creates with e copy is good or bad is not interesting to me. How we make use of vast potential is. o, & for the record, hits to a website are as meaningless as sales of poetry books. for almost any activity Ive engaged in I use the 1% rule, that 1 out of a 100 will find something I do interesting enough to respond directly. Always in any medium, that is what counts. Engaged. mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:31:38 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Bromige and the Provinces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a well-known __New Yorker__magazine cover that depicts a bloated map of NYC in the foreground with the rest of the country attached as afterthought in the background. A similar psychogeography could be plotted from the perspective of the Bay Area or any so-called Cultural Center. David, It is difficult to do innovative writing away from systems of support. It's also harder to find like-minded peers to jam with and react to. And, too, one's publishing options are apt to be more limited due to fewer networking opportunities. I'm painfully aware of these issues. I live them. It's even harder though to read your last posting and not see in it an implicit note of condescension or cultural imperialism. Those of us who reside "everyplace else" are continually reminded through the media and by our more sucessful colleagues of our second-class, outsider status. I can recite names, dates, places. I don't forget. And I don't like it. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:49:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: peter neufeld Subject: New Chapbook from melodeon poetry systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We are pleased to announce the publication of: David Buuck's _up the flagpoles_ this fall. This book is available for $6 ppd from the address listed below: Peter Neufeld 3573 19th St. San Francisco CA 94110. Please make check payable to me. Peter Neufeld. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:20:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: the Rub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } stephen ellis wrote; to rub elbows, hips and foreheads, or play footsies with, those whose literal presence affords a simple and perpetual kind of "correction" against presuming an authority this does feel like the excluded bounty the web-world ---- and watching squalls blow up on this list and others over and over i've thought that a table to sit around would change things so much for the better ---- perhaps more technology will help as we drift toward video phones and other shit of that sort ---- i don't really expect it to during the 89 riots in kathmandu, on the first day, big groups* of students chanting "we want demo cracy" "we want demo cracy" (it means "down with the king") ---- the long arm winding up without reference to american baseball to chuck a brick at the line of soldiers ---- cheers ---- the soldiers charge i hide in camera and catch the charge rag tag and not very impressive if still dangerous and sort of pathetic stephen continues a bit later; I've always thought the smallness of poetry's audience was an advantage, in that it is fairly easy to get to know those with whom one may share certain affinities those who read you, and/or who you read (locals!) - wch might then be the basis of a group whose inter-relationships would be something other than virtual and distant, and not so set on closing a gap that - with respect to getting and being together literally - doesn't really exist. sure. it's a new medium, or relatively new and in need of lots of things probably with all the conflicting needs it's being used for ---- and whoa ! 800 and some poets might be reading ? ---- not that i think so (hats off to lurkers and anyone who deletes me on sight) ---- maybe "restraint" isnt all it's cracked up to be, maybe the same is true of "reasonableness" ---- but given how hard it is to see the intent ---- how many times have we heard "well by yr tone" and been surprised at where that went, where you hadnt thought you'd been so i stood in the street and snapped pictures of the charge and much as it is when yr crossing a street with traffic coming you gauge the speed and all that and don't usually have doubts that you'll make it ---- cars speed up and such but these guys running in all their gear and those miserable boots ---- but my stance and everything else as i walked away screamed I'M NOT A PART OF THIS and for good reason, being mistaken for a Nepali student might have gotten me hurt and being so obviously NOT one and holding a camera created something of safe zone around me initially ---- no soldier (this 1st day certainly) wanted to be photographed whacking anyone with a club i'm writing to an unfixed you out there and i can't see any of you ---- you might have as easily said this to me mr. ellis again; [the] self, ( . . . ) cemented so completely into a perpetually "responsible" place, the one "position" one needs more literal help removing themselves from than any other. we like to be de-individuated on occasion ---- i blast loud music doing the housework i like the least ---- think about the zone when you cd dance all night ---- think about the crowds in the coliseum, maybe basketball ? maybe lions ? why do people pay attention to violence ? i heard an answer recently "b/c it's evolutionarily adaptive to pay attention to violence, if yr not paying attention it's that much easier to get surrounded by it" my friend randy remarked to me while we were watching the turnstile site http://stadiumweb.com/turnstile/turnstile_part2.html that there was all this SEX SEX SEX but where was the violence on the web, that given the continual pairing of these things in talk wdnt one suppose that there wd be a lot of violence on-line ? maybe there is ? finally, either i cdnt resist or just wanted to be part of the mobs of students that were now harassing the soldiers from the side streets ---- they'd hide a block down and as the soldiers passed they'd creep down these narrow streets and rush out onto New Road and start shouting and throwing bricks and stones and then before the soldiers cd get into their line again for another charge, back down the sidestreet they'd run ---- i wanted to see that hidden scene wanted to creep up on the cops with them and see it from there so i ran with them, but i'd waited a bit too long and the tide had changed a bit and just as i was making to the backstreet where the students were laughing and jumping around the tear gas canisters started landing around us and everyone panic'd and ran everywhichaway knocking each other over and an old man in a topi fell in front of me and coughed and i helped him up and started to retch and i was hit on the back of my neck and shoulder by a brick and went down lost what air i had in my lungs and suddenly cdnt breathe either ----- a man stepped out of a house and picked up the old man again and took my arm and led us into his house closing the door behind us after i cd breath again they let me come upstairs to peek thru the shutters at the street (now THAT'S "audience") the challenge is to allow people to become deindividuated but not lose the ability to distinguish and choose between things they'd never do and things they wd and we have this curious sense that on line we're both isolate individuals and part of a mob, able it seems to access the nastiest options of both conditions maybe if there was a table between them ? a weekly get together with food, jokes, drinks and talk ? anyway )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:33:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: Free Cuisinart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Betsy Andrews: >>Can anyone give me a website address for Free Cuisinart?<< did you find this yet? http://www.ccofa.org/wowzine/wowzine.html h ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:18:27 +0000 Reply-To: archambeau@lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Re: anyone know? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bill Fuller? You won't find him in a Chicago directory -- he lives in Winnetka (or was it Wilmette?) R.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:19:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Poets in towers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm trying to locate a book of lit crit about poets who lived/worked in towers. I saw it in a catalogue recently, but I can't remember where. The author was a woman, I think. Poets were Jeffers, Yeats, Rilke, and...(there was a fourth). Anyone know the book? Thanks, Mark Melnicove ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:38:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Several Announcements In-Reply-To: <19991104174901.29858.rocketmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thursday, November 11, Keith and Rosmarie Waldrop will be reading in Chicago at Columbia College at 5:30 pm.,Ferguson Theater, 600 S. Michigan. On the same day, on Poetry Daily, Paul Hoover's "Canticus Narcissus" from his new and selected, TOTEM AND SHADOW (Talisman House), will be the featured poem. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:04:37 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: tendering opposition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I like the way you're thinking this out, or through. Nevertheless, there is some aspect of physicality, or presence, that's lacking in both internet and book media. A page is a page is a page, no matter how fast you can send it elsewhere. And in light of this speed, how, exactly, do we define "real time" - is it still "like" talking with someone? That "like" makes it all seem rather flat. Maybe it's my attitude that's flat, but it occurs to me to suggest that substance has to be in what's ON the page, not how quickly it can become globe-trotting "information". I mean, is poetry simply "information"? I recognize that it does "globe-trot", but does it have to formalized primarily in that aspect alone, bereft of whatever "world" ignited it? - S E >From: miekal and >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: tendering opposition >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:07:42 -0600 > >while I really dont have time to rehearse my answers to electronic >nay-saying, I remain fascinated by the assumptions one has to make to >tender opposition to electronic literature. without fail, I find that >every arguement against emedia is easily turned on its head & can be >applied to gutenberg's folly. & the irony being that this discussion >would not be possible without using the internet. > > >billy mills wrote: > >Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and >e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. They are exclusionist. >The poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. > >m and wrote: > >I would agree that internet is not democratic, my experience of it & how >Ive used it has been much more in the anarchist vein. I do a tremendous >amount of networking, organizing, & distribution via the net. It is >merely a tool, it is not an idle demon waiting to possess our souls or >appropriate our sense of identity & culture. The internet is a very >broadband, & just like small press & the zine revolution changes the >ways we think about the printed word, it does it by existing in the >margins/shadows of the Text of Capital. It is no different in >electronic space, edges of opposition & otherness flourish outside the >banner ads, the spam, the supermodel sperm for sale. But the assumption >that books are anymore democratic is equally contestable. I havent been >able to afford to buy books for years, if I have $20/month to spend, is >it wiser to buy one book (or a part of a book) or buy a month of >unlimited access where I can read 100s of texts, distribute my work, >correspond with artists around the world, access information bases.... >The nearest decent library is 100 miles away, I go there once every 3 >months or so. Even this library which has a notoriously famous small >press collection, probably only has titles by about 10% of the people on >this list, yet on the internet thru online journals I can read a large >percentage of poetic lists works. Spend a day at the EPC for beginners. > > >billy mills wrote: >In fact, those subcultural groups that have so enthusiastically embraced >the e-zone seem to have suspended their reflective attitudes in general. > >m and wrote: >This one make me scratch my head, maybe there is something Im missing, >but I fail to understand why reading a text on the printed page limits >reflection. & in general a lot of netizens I know tend to print out >texts which they wish to spend a lot of time with, because internet is >easily extended to hard copy. The only difference at that point is a >book is bound & a printout is looseleaf. > >tom b wrote: > >And the division between haves and have- nots is pretty much along class >and racial lines. > >m and wrote: > >& the poetry world that Ive encountered in the last 20 years at book >fairs, readings, exhibitions, has certainly been largely white & >middle-class. But this is the midwest. Among the folks that I network >with on the computer I would say more than 50% of them (& I network with >100s of folks) make less than $5000/year--live in squats or intentional >communitys or are nomadic, are racially, sexually & politically >diverse. But my experience of the net isnt typically thru academic >channels. > >steven ellis wrote: > >I've always thought the smallness of poetry's audience was an advantage, >in >that it is fairly easy to get to know those with whom one may share >certain >affinities - those who read you, and/or who you read (locals!) - wch >might >then be the basis of a group whose inter-relationships would be >something >other than virtual and distant, and not so set on closing a gap that - >with >respect to getting and being together literally - doesn't really exist. >In >this, one ends up having the pleasure of actual co-conspirators with >whom >one may plot considerable intrigues with and/or insurrections against, >one's >own nation, town, neighborhood, relatives, fellow travelers, and self, >this >latter, cemented so completely into a perpetually "responsible" place, >the >one "position" one needs more literal help removing themselves from than >any >other. > >m and wrote: > >one of my main uses of internet is online realtime collaboration. Ive >been creating works with folks in a dozen different countries whom most >likely I will never meet, but yet we can discuss, create, share >graphics, sounds, texts in a realtime environment (tho working with >australians is a bit more difficult because of the time differences.) >while the software which enables these conspiratory gatherings to take >place is still in its infant stage, already a lot of work exists that >would not have been possible 10 years ago. & likewise the smallness of >the group is no different in electronic space, small, intimate, >incestuous, ... just like small press. > > > >Since Ive stepped up to the line to be the straw man, keep in mind that >my position is not a one or the other. Text's territory is expanding >whether you like it or not, whether you will participate or not. It has >already happened & the book will forever feel the affects of >digitality. Whether the relationship hard copy creates with e copy is >good or bad is not interesting to me. How we make use of vast potential >is. > > >o, & for the record, hits to a website are as meaningless as sales of >poetry books. for almost any activity Ive engaged in I use the 1% rule, >that 1 out of a 100 will find something I do interesting enough to >respond directly. Always in any medium, that is what counts. Engaged. > > >mIEKAL ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:51:28 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Business, class, access MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David Baratier: There are many publishers outside & on this list who do not >use the perpetual victim stance or "have not" status you are attributing >to the lower classes KL: Question: How does bringing the power of analysis to bear on a situation, speaking out about it, and producing works in response to it constitute being a "victim"? Answer: Are you asserting that you are analyzing the situation? Throughout your posting you blame a social construct as a way to position yourself. The implication of-- "I get very tired of this because money does buy access: more time to write, money to publish one's own journals and books, which in turn increases both community as well as publishing opportunities for one's own work by increasing your 'profile' and 'reputation.'" ---is that your working class background does not allow you to go beyond the societal expectation inherent in class structure. "Publication being determined partly by who you know" The implication that one cannot "know" anyone without ludicrous jacksons hits me as another oppressive class myth. I know a guy who was a steelworker when tri-quarterly published his first book. I know a guy who works in a cranberry bog for numerous months each year, who is well published & one of the latter half of this centuries best poets. And so on-- "There's a lack of access to the Internet, where one can hobnob with publishers and magazine editors" Yet another victim statement. Interested folks can go to the library for free, as mentioned. While not all of these quotes are yours, Kathy, as you also say, "the quote from Bobbie implicates both Bobbie & myself, in a way laying things bare, and saying, yup this is how it works." My question is, in what way are you a reliable source for what occurs in the upper eschelons of poetry if you have never been there? I also add, as a person whose income is negligible, that I have not personally experienced the insinuated discrepancies described. Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:19:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Re: Poets in towers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Don't know the fourth in this bridge set, but Pound was fond of calling Yeats' tower "Ballyphallus." He also pronounced his occult theory of the 28 cycles of the moon & human personality" "very very very bughouse." All to be found in Brenda Maddox's new bio of Yeats, _Yeats' Ghosts_. Patrick Pritchett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:38:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: heraclitus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Tony, I did as instructed, and, although I'm generally in favor of any scheme that would deflect the grasp of capitalism from our private lives, found the actual texts that were generated as a result less than interesting. Were you suggesting that they had any value in and of themselves? Joe ___________________________________________________ the list may find this of interest: check it out Tony Green >looking up heraclitus on the Web, I found this, do >you know it? > >www.die.net/noise/p/o/p/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:17:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: Poets in towers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [from a grant application to the wisconsin arts board last year] In the tiny unincorporated town of West Lima, Wisconsin, Xexoxial Endarchy, Ltd. owns, among other propertieswhich serve as facilities for "Dreamtime Village" & other projects, a one-acre lot in the center of town which was historically the "town square." As a public art project Miekal And has began to design for this site The Driftless Grotto of West Lima, a village park environment that will be part fantasmagorical roadside attraction, picnic area, permaculture demonstration, sculpture garden, & shrine to the Driftless Region. Special features of the finished Grotto will include 1) A stone-pillared concrete & blue-glass bottle archway entrance; 2) Mosaiced fence around the perimeter of the square; 3) A 20 ft stacked blue glass bottle tower housing a Jules Verne-style "time machine" which will be operated by the movements of live birds inside an aviary; 4) Carved & painted remains of a dying 200 yr-old willow tree in the lot; 5) Flow-form water fountains & birdbaths & picnic benches; & 6) A web of tunnels inspired by & emanating from the extant remains on the lot of an old basement & a cistern which local folk tell us was literally the town watering-hole & weekly gathering place many years ago. 7) A bog garden of endemic carniverous pitcher plants. --------------------------------------------- THE DRIFTLESS GROTTO OF WEST LIMA http://net22.com/dreamtime/grotto/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:16:42 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: internet costs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > seems fairly general here in publik libraries free internet access for cardholders, i remember a few years ago when i was in the art/festivals dept at the city of port phillip we really pushed this idea with their libraries and it seems to have gone out through the library system//pete >I'll check out NZ public libraries & let you know the results > >best Tony Green >-----Original Message----- > > >> > >>re Miekal & Tom on costs -- I paid 2pounds sterling + 50 p for 1/2 hour >in > >>a public library in London in October, 1 pound +50 p for 1/4 hr in a > >>cybercafe in London, & $39.95 NZ = about $20 US per month to run >internet > >>at > >>home > >> > >>Tony Green > > > >Tony > >thats sad, service here at our library in ocean grove australia is free >as > >long as you are a library card holder, the library card is free as long >as > >you are a resident in the area//pete spence > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:25:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: a david page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just updated some links on David Bromige's page.... (This was his bio/intro page for the Socopoet page...Socopoet has reincarnated as EssentialPoet on the Onelist site, and I am no longer list owner. Some of the Socopoet site remains; I will be dismantling it, however some pages will stay, including David's.) http://www.sonic.net/layne/bromige.html More David is on the web now; I added five links. I'll be adding more David photos too. Nice to be back. I've been quiet for a long time. Layne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.sonic.net/layne a quiet place ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:27:20 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Billy Mills writes: > > > Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and > > e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. They are exclusionist. >The > > poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. > >The economic argument for computers as exclusionist *IS GOING AWAY*. It is >melting away in front of our eyes. > > > >--- >Jim Rosenberg i agree with both you and tom, jerome!! i think if you want to use the system and can't afford to you just click in your streetwise mode and find a way to do it.. re the typewriter the concrete poets would head for the op/shop to buy a cheap one because it had some nice type malfunctions so one for neat letters and one for a few poems you!! cost for what you want....one of the reasons we took so long to get the web site up at the city of port phillip when i worked there was the very argument that not all the people living in the councils boundaries would have access, long meetings, we all agreed on the ethical base but in the end someone is always going to be excluded this is a problem but it didn't stop guttenburg and soon a lot more people learnt to read!!!!!pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:32:02 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >"Poets are unbearable to one another. You have to see them with other >people >to know what they're like." > >Elias Canetti (from __Notes from Hampstead__) don't think amongst the 10,000 surfers here i got another poet around apart from my partner and our six year old son who does his poetry on his drum kit!!! i travel twice a year about two hundred kilometers down the coast to see one poet i get along with well, i dread going up to melbourne mixing with it!!but there was a time i enjoyed the whole messyness of it,,warm enough here now to takes some nice long walks along the coast//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:36:06 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Bromige and the Provinces Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Those of us who reside "everyplace else" are continually reminded through >the >media and by our more sucessful colleagues of our second-class, outsider >status. I can recite names, dates, places. I don't forget. And I don't >like >it. > >Tom Beckett ,,tom i just aren't into competitives when it comes to writing/making things, i'm absolutely happy if i have done something right to ever worry about will it be seen or will as many everybodies think i'm good at what i do,,,,pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:38:36 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >E-mail on listservs such as this functions like speech but without social >context--speech divorced from body language, gesture, eyeblink , etc. > >I'm not a luddite. But every new technology brings a raft of new perils >along with that paradigm shift. The shift away from the body--the >immateriality of the new electronic media --seems like one of these to me. > >Tom Beckett > why not keep all the tools you've gained and just add this system to them as a useful, don't need to be any more serious than that!!!pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:38:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: The body MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd like to combine two recent posts, this one from Tom Beckett E-mail on listservs such as this functions like speech but without social context--speech divorced from body language, gesture, eyeblink , etc. Therein lies the nub of the problem for me. One comes to rely on strategic overstatement to make one's point, often generating overreaction in return. I'm not a luddite. But every new technology brings a raft of new perils along with that paradigm shift. The shift away from the body--the immateriality of the new electronic media --seems like one of these to me. and an earlier one from Jacques Debrot, in which he says (in part) I am interested in articulating the problem of registering & mediating the body within artistic production--particularly as this was addressed by the New York Poets and by the Cage, Johns, Rauschenberg circle. Language Poetry, interestingly enough, begins as a reaction against the emphasis the New Americans had placed on the physical body in relation to the poetic line and moves instead, of course, toward a self-reflexive preoccupation with the mediation of inner experience by language. Watten explains this move away from the body as a response to the Vietnam conflict, "the era of napalm," etc. But the Language Poets' critique is aimed, not at the most "advanced" considerations of the body, but at Olson, who improperly essentialized the body as the ground & meaning of his work. to ask some questions (some of which are left over from a similar discussion on another poetics list). I can attest to the fact that, at least around the early 1980s in the Bay Area, there was a definite disdain expressed about Olson's work and influence among the folks that have been subsequently identified as the progenitors (and yes there were women too!) of the LPs. What I'd like to know is: what does it mean to "improperly essentialize the body as the ground and meaning of [one's] work", and how and why did Olson do it? Are we talking here about the breath of "Projective Verse" or the verse itself? Jacques mentions some exceptions to this general trend (e.g. Leslie Scalapino), but is he in fact correct that the LPs as a whole were reacting against the New American emphasis on the physical body? If this is true (and accepting that dualism has placed its poisonous roots deep into most of our souls), doesn't it follow that if we don't essentialize the body we in fact wind up essentializing the mind? Isn't that the real cause of the "peril" that Tom mentions above? (One of my teachers was Norman O. Brown who, if I'm not mistaken, invented the term "polymorphous perversity" -- is such a desirable state really the result of this turn away from the body?) And finally, last Sunday's New York Times had an article on neo-paganism, which contained the seeminly inoccuous statement that members of the Wicca movement "regard nature itself as charged with divinity". Is this too "essentialism"? Just wondering . . . Joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 20:08:44 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: (Technology) RE: miekal and dobyns and etc. Comments: To: dtaciuch@osf1.gmu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dean, et. al, I think uncritical acceptance of any new technology--whether it be nuclear power, the latest class of organophosphate pesticides or the new electronic media--is nuts. Cyberspace is showing all the signs of becoming thoroughly corporatized and makes me very nervous. That you've heard this all before doesn't mean that it shouldn't be repeated often. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:47:16 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's Hampstead that makes poets unbearable. They meet head on in cars at The Spaniards tooting their horns & shouting obscenities, because of the narrowing of the road. They really & truly crucify one another at Easter. Some have been found drowned in the White Stone Pond. Very young ones hallucinate. One of these even reported a hallucinated meeting with Sigmund Freud. Anyone on this list knows that poets really get on together unusually well. Canetti's remark must surely be a very local reference. Tony Green -----Original Message----- From: Tom Beckett To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, 5 November 1999 11:13 Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. >"Poets are unbearable to one another. You have to see them with other people >to know what they're like." > >Elias Canetti (from __Notes from Hampstead__) > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:59:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: oops Re: tendering opposition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit m and wrote: This one make me scratch my head, maybe there is something Im missing, but I fail to understand why reading a text on the printed page limits reflection. should read: This one make me scratch my head, maybe there is something Im missing, but I fail to understand why reading a text on the computer screen limits reflection. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dean Taciuch Subject: Re: (Technology) RE: miekal and dobyns and etc. Comments: To: TBeck131@aol.com In-Reply-To: <0.1f978810.2553881c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Dean, et. al, > >I think uncritical acceptance of any new technology--whether it be nuclear >power, the latest class of organophosphate pesticides or the new electronic >media--is nuts. Cyberspace is showing all the signs of becoming thoroughly >corporatized and makes me very nervous. That you've heard this all before >doesn't mean that it shouldn't be repeated often. > >Tom Beckett Tom--I agree, actually. _Uncritical_ acceptance is dangerous. But that's not my position; I'm looking for ways in which this medium can be used differently (not necessarily the technology, but the tech _did_ make the medium more available). Jim Rosenberg, who's already weighed in on this, is (for example) one to whom I'd point if asked for examples of artists using elctronic media in innovative ways--doing things which _are not possible_ in print. This doesn't mean books are dead, nor that real world face-to-face communication is dead. It is emphatically _not_ an "either/or," but a "yes, and" situation. Most of the people on this list I have never had the chance to meet, and yet I can exchange ideas, opinions, etc. That doesn't mean I wouldn't speak to them in person. --Dean ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:58:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: Advertisments for self Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'll be in the UK for the next two weeks, doing some readings. If you are in the vicinity, hope you'll drop by. Schedule: 16 November in London: with David Bromige, in the Subvoicive Series, 8PM, Upstairs at the Three Cups, Sandland Street, London WC1. 19 November, Newcastle University, the Hatten Gallery 1 PM (Schwitters' MerzBarn next to the Gallery) 21 November, Cambridge, Churchill College, The Cockroft Room 2 PM MH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:58:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: movie STARS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, Wanted to put a note here that we are especially interested in publishing some FILMIC work in this issue, aka movie reviews, filmic treatises, homages to Mae West, etc. Please b/c with queries. Please remember our submission postmark period for this issue is Jan 1- Feb 15, '00. We promise to have replies for all parties by tax day, April 15. And a thousand A+ stars to all who've ordered Outlet (4/5) Weathermap, which is still available and frankly, lovely and intelligent!! Elizabeth Don't forget Outlet's Stars issue -- details at http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy/page5.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 20:35:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: ps re movie STARS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ps also of course, poems. Outlet c/o Double Lucy Books http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:57:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loss =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peque=F1o?= Glazier Subject: Deluxe Rubber Chicken #4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A note that Deluxe Rubber Chicken #4 is now available. Here are brief details: >Announcing the fourth issue of Deluxe Rubber Chicken > >Featuring two major works: > >WISCONSIN by Sam Stark > >and > >WINDOWS by Ted Warnell > Now available at http://epc.buffalo.edu/ezines/deluxe/ or by clicking "New" at the EPC Home page http://epc.buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:27:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leonard Brink Subject: 20% off at SPD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Palmer's _The Danish Notebook_ (Avec Books) is one of the new and featured non-fiction titles at SPD. Just mention the code WEB while ordering and you'll receive 20% off the list price of $9.95. The featured titles discount changes every month, so this offer is only good for _The Danish Notebook_ until November 30th. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 01:17:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: AGENDA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - AGENDA The Ambassador announces the Report of the Committee on Relations with the Host Country and the appointment of a member by THE PRESIDENT. THE PRESI- DENT acknowledges. The Ambassador announces the Report of an International Atomic Energy Agency. THE PRESIDENT nods his head. Doctor Leopold Konninger is supposed to be chairing the meeting on Human Rights Questions, Including Alternative Approaches for Improving the Effective Enjoyment of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Where is Doctor Leopold Konninger asks THE PRESIDENT and the Ambassador turns his head. Doctor Leopold Konninger has drawn up the Vienna Accords in relation to their Comprehensive Implementation. The Ambassador eagerly awaits the Special Rapporteur on the Question of Torture and Human Rights in Afghan- istan. THE PRESIDENT goes to a closed meeting on the Rights of Peoples to Self-Determination and the approval of a draft pursuant to that effect. Doctor Leopold Konninger, says the Ambassador, is worrisome these days. The Ambassador is in charge of Special Human Rights Violations in the United States of America. He is also the Special Rapporteur on the Sit- uation of Human Rights in the Sudan. Doctor Leopold Konninger is considerably weakened; he has not eaten for several days, and promises not to eat for several days more. He is still naked and quite cold; he has eyes only for Nikuko, the beautiful Russian ballet dancer and her cabrioles. Nikuko is stunning in a lavender tutu and matching tights and slippers. Doctor Leopold Konninger has killed many people. He watches Nikuko close- ly, his pince-nez back in place, his legs and lips slightly parted. For the past two days, he has not been able to think of death, nor his work promoting Desertification in Those Countries Experiencing Serious Drought and/or Desertification, particularly Those Countries South of the Standard Equatorial Zone. He believes he owns Nikuko, grown her like a plant or animal or human. He believes he has fed her body and thereby owns those transformations of her body pursuant to proper nourishment, Nikuko eating during her pirouettes, drinking during her entrechats. Doctor Leopold Konninger cannot imagine speaking a single word. He cannot imagine anything. The Ambassador says to THE PRESIDENT, who has returned from his closed meeting, to the subject of Doctor Leopold Konninger, there no longer corresponds an object. THE PRESIDENT nods. He and the Ambassador leave for the Meeting for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons and of the Exploitation of the Prostitution of Others. They pass by a door, imagining Doctor Leopold Konninger and Nikuko within. THE PRESIDENT says to the Ambassador, just as Doctor Leopold Konninger is a subject without a corresponding object, so does this meeting have an object without a corresponding subject. Hit? n You have 19 Dealer has KC+AD+2D+TC = bust You win $2 Action $6 You're even New game 5C up 4D+5S Hit? They are both thinking of Nikuko. They cannot imagine what is Nikuko's and what is not Nikuko's. Nikuko cannot imagine either. She is at the top of her form. _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 01:13:36 -0800 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Miekal and Dobyns, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and > e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. What medium is democratic? What is a democratic medium? Radio and newspapers I suppose are the closest to being available to all. But those are also media that are not particularly open to input. > They are exclusionist. The > poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. It's true that it does cost money to be on the Internet and to have a computer. And there are many countries, unlike just about all of Canada, where an Internet connection is not possible. And the United States does control the Internet. That needn't be the case, though, and if the Internet grows into a truly robust international communications channel, cannot remain so. > Tom's point about electronic media militating against reflective habits of > reading is also key. In fact, those subcultural groups that have so > enthusiastically embraced the e-zone seem to have suspended their reflective > attitudes in general. I don't understand your point about el. media militating against reflective habits at all, really. There is unmindfulness in most quarters, el. or not. I don't think it's a peculiarly el. phenomenon. And I have found that if you look hard on the Internet, you find many quarters that are simply brilliant and deeply reflective. > Electronic commerce is the future of capitalism, and > those websites devoted to such marginal activities as the publication of > 'innovative' poetries will be just as marginal in the virtual world as > existing small press publishers are in the real one. Economically you mean? Perhaps. Although that remains to be seen. Artists have a key advantage in this medium in that they can make Web sites and communicate in this medium in a way that is not possible to most. And, as opposed to TV, film, radio, and newspapers, they usually have access to it both as readers and writers. It will be the artists, not the typical publishers and broadcasters, etc., who establish dynamite publishing houses in various media on an international basis. > Don't kid yourselves. The revolution will not be netcast. Oh, and books are > not about to die. What revolution are you talking about? Liberty and justice and a PC and Internet connection on the desktop for all? No, I suppose it won't. But it does seem that there are some possibilities here for very widespread influence and action that should not be so lightly discounted by a reflective person like yourself. The trajectory is not so obviously a recapitulation of the status quo. You are debunking the myths of the popular press, and I suppose they need debunking, but after debunking the inane, isn't a more considered criticism in order? And isn't that what you find here on this electronic list, for instance? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:37:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daniel bouchard Subject: Re: Mass Ave Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mass Ave is expired. The editor's address has changed. You may still send correspondence, poems, essays, photographs of interest (or no interest), new books, old books, maps, catalogues, postcards, miscellaneous ephemera, or just a how-de-doo to: PO Box 390408, Cambridge, MA 02139. There is no chance of publication but all contents will get attention. At 07:24 PM 11/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >I just tried to send work to Mass Ave using the address from the most >recent issue I've seen and it came back "address expired." Has the >address changed? Does someone have the new one? Perhaps the editor >himself, if he's on here? > >Backchannel, please. > >Thanks so much. > >Arielle > > > >**************************************************************************** >"I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but >time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I >describe." -- Ray Johnson > <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:28:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Re: Poets in towers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the book on the (quasi?-)modernists who lived in towers was reviewed in the TLS sometime in the last year -- R Jeffers' california home was on the cover -- JD ----- Original Message ----- From: Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume To: Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Poets in towers > Don't know the fourth in this bridge set, but Pound was fond of calling > Yeats' tower "Ballyphallus." He also pronounced his occult theory of the 28 > cycles of the moon & human personality" "very very very bughouse." All to be > found in Brenda Maddox's new bio of Yeats, _Yeats' Ghosts_. > > Patrick Pritchett > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:44:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew John Miller Subject: Re: Poets in towers In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here's the relevant bibliographical information: Theodore Ziolkowski, _The View from the Tower: Origins of an Antimodernist Image_ (Princeton: Princeton UP, 1998). I found the book somewhat disappointing. Ziolkowski touches on an a array of interesting connections, but he doesn't provide much in the way of theorization or analysis. And, although the book contains some fascinating photographs and reproductions, they're all quite small, and they're all in low-quality black and white. In short, this book would have been best if it had been published as a coffee-table book filled with glossy pages and enormous colour photographs. Best, Andrew John Miller andrew-miller@utulsa.edu On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 13:19:40 -0500, you wrote: >I'm trying to locate a book of lit crit about poets who lived/worked in >towers. I saw it in a catalogue recently, but I can't remember where. The >author was a woman, I think. Poets were Jeffers, Yeats, Rilke, and...(there >was a fourth). Anyone know the book? >Thanks, >Mark Melnicove ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:30:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: DH, NYC: Giraud and Lubasch this Saturday In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Segue @ Double Happiness Saturdays from 4:00 to 6:00 pm. Double Happiness is located at 173 Mott Street, just south of Broome. A 4$ contribution goes to the readers. November 6: Eric Giraud, Lisa Lubasch Eric Giraud was born in 1966. He lives in Marseille and has published a chapbook (Cliches). marcel, a full-length work, is to be published this year. He translates American and English poetry with Holly Dye. Lisa Lubasch's first book of poems How Many More of Them Are You? is just out from Avec Books. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in An Avec Sampler 2, Boulevard, Explosive, The Hat, Fence, Volt, and elsewhere. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:38:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: The Use of This Listserv In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" With all of this discussion about the nature of the internet and its relation to poetry, I'm wondering why we use this listserv mostly for debates and advertisement. I think most of us would agree that collaboration and community are what make the poetry we are interested in different. Aren't we supposed to be a group of poets and people interested in poetics (poeticists?)? Then why don't we use this listserv for more creative purposes? Does anyone remember the renga that was spontaneously composed on this listserv around the death of Ginsberg? Why don't we do more of that? Anyone interested? grant j virginia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 14:21:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: renga redux Comments: cc: poetic@acsu.buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those of you who have come to the list more recently will not recall the renga to which Grant Jenkins refers, which was initiated in the context of the Yasusada affair (as it came to be called) by Steven Shoemaker in July 1995. Further information is available, as always, in the searchable archive of the Poetics List; follow the Poetics links from the front page of the Electronic Poetry Center at . What was interesting in the project was the perhaps unexpected effect of simultaneity of response, which was to derail the form into a hydra-like entity that eventually came to dominate list discourse. Much less interesting was the general tenor of response, which tended not to reflection or density but sheer verbiage - anyway, that was my response in 1995. What is certain is that the renga's occlusion of other conversation became tedious after a time; I believe the first call to halt - in any case, the most damning - was given in August 1995 by George Bowering: When I hear the word "renga" I reach for my D-key. (Perhaps recalling a quotation lightly attributed to Jack Spicer in Beatitude no. 17: "When I hear the word Ferlingetti, I reach for my g..n."). GB's sentiment was seconded not long after by Lindz Williamson in a message entitled "Please Stop." I wouldn't want to prevent any such project from happening on the list, but I would suggest that it might be of use to learn from the past. Perhaps if someone would volunteer to be the renga custodian, so that the list wouldn't be flooded with such messages? That is, this volunteer could collect and assemble the responses backchannel, sending updates to the list periodically. I think David Israel performed this service for us with the renga written for the late, loved Allen Ginsberg during his illness in March-April 1997. In any case, I want to avoid having 15 renga-related messages coming to the list every day, as happened before. Chris % Christopher W. Alexander % poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 14:25:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: The Internet and all that / Mills MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had to reformat this message. Please keep in mind that HTML formatting should not be sent to the list. Chris -- From: "Mills, Billy" Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:23:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:07:43 +0000 > From: kathylou@ATT.NET > Subject: Some stats on Web usage > > Region / Internet Users (in millions) > United States, Canada 107.3 > Europe 46.4 > Asia/Pacific* 33.6 > Latin America 5.3 > Africa 1.7 > Middle East 0.9 > > *Includes Australia and New Zealand > > Source: Red Herring magazine, December 1999 So, the arguments are not melting before my eyes. I did not say that poets should not use PCs: the fact that I am e-mailing these messages would contradict such a proposition. I am saying that we should not lie to ourselves that the Web is more open than books are. Yes, access is easier: if you are a citizen of the 'developed' 'world'. Yes, books were exclusionist in their day, so that makes it OK to reproduce this in Webworld? While we're at it, we could reinstitute serfdom, witch hunts and child labour. I know a lot of poets find new and exciting potential in virtual creation, and that the Internet gives users access to a huge range of material. But look again at the figures posted by kathylou, and then let's be honest about the _social_ limitations of the medium. It is, in many ways, another way of enforcing centre/margin relationships, another hot topic on this list. Billy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:11:15 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear List: Truly wanting to use the list to co-respond with others--I posted a question teh last week. "What do you consider to be the first American (of the U.S.) poem"? I did not receive one reply to my posting. THIS is why the list--for me--is becoming eavedropping....! I check in this a.m. to find 37 posting--many with direct responses--seeming privte--to others--complete with Daer John: here's the bla bla bla you requested...". Perhaps teh list has changed and I should be off--but again--I'm hopeful the list could serve as other than dialogues between the few. So--my query? thanks-- Todd Baron ReMap ps: the question is Before Whitman and Dickinson... Before Bradstreet...? In English. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:11:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: polarizing the web... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i think some of us on this list probably weary of the "access" question *not* b/c the entire planet is actually online (as kathy lou's stat post indicates, it's not), and *not* b/c there is nothing problematic about the online world (as miekal suggests, there are problems), and *not* b/c we believe we writers/artists need all the help we can get (albeit many of us DO think this---which is the upshot, i think, of introducing the typewriter as artifact into the discussion, as jim rosenberg has done)... this question of access *will* continue to haunt the online world for sometime to come... but if the digital world is not reducible to binaries, neither is this question of access... ergo many of us would like to see the question of access modified some to account for the changes of the last decade... some of the very first exchanges i had online, c. 1991, concerned the issue of access... and the past eight years have seen, it's fair to say, an entirely unanticipated expansion of these spaces -- granted, primarily in the industrialized nations (said expansion not w/o, to be sure, a disturbingly corporate, if (as tom beckett indicates) incorporeal, presence... which latter topoi have, of course, been the subject of a flood of articles, essays, books, etc.)... yes, the online world was for so long almost exclusively white male... i don't think one can make the latter claim anymore -- times are changing (albeit similar claims may be made, corresponding to kathy lou's global stats)... but in fact, there is some (customary, in fact) danger even in my saying that the online world "was for so long exclusively white male"... of course i don't wish to deny that the majority body count, as well as prevailing perception of same, has been white male, esp. prior to this decade -- but this does little to explain the early presence, e.g., of native/indigenous peoples on the web... do any of you know art mcgee?... art has for years now documented (in my view, heroically) the presence of minority-ethnic groups in the online world... a small presence perhaps in terms of overall percentages, but a vital, even catalytic presence in terms of imagining the digital world as a site of possible social transformation... interesting that so many of these groups, having been disenfranchised for so long in ftf culture, saw the potential of the web and the internet immediamente, hence migrated into these spaces long before (i would say) many of the poets on this list got their feet wet with modems and the like... and they did so, not surprisingly, with limited resources---which is to say, in the face of significant (social and material) resistance... that history has yet to be written, but when it IS written, it'll be an eye opener, i'm certain of it... in any case, let me return to my first para: if we writers need all the help we can get (imho), then should be using all the media at our disposal... which is another way of asserting the following re new media: their disposition is not a foregone conclusion... and it's not a matter of being a luddite or a technophile, either... it's a matter of using these media to (it is to be hoped) constructive ends, while remaining critical (as opposed to merely skeptical) of the larger issues that surface in the midst of such technologies... i think it's wise, that is, to use these media to critique these media---but critique is not simple skepticism, it requires something more than the observation that 'not everyone is online'... it entails at least some sense of the subtleties at work around here... if i were to claim that the u.s. public domain revealed a predominantly and oppressively white male view of the world c. 1945, few would argue with me (i think, i hope)... but if i were to claim that the u.s. public domain c. 1945 was *exclusively* white male---i.e., de facto---well i would HOPE someone would argue with me, would draw out the subterranean complexities buried under such an assertion, and point out the vital presence of non-white-male discourse, however illegible from more mainstream perspectives... i trust i'm making some sense here... in effect i'm asking (as it were) for a more nuanced discussion of what's going down when we all get together online... when you correlate (e.g.) the rise of electronic media with an increasingly mobile workforce, the result is a matter neither of sheer "negatives" nor of sheer "positives" --- similarly (if i may), that i might not ultimately be placed in the earth alongside my folks in syracuse, ny, is a matter, for me, of no simple social-material equation... hence the kind of anti-digital nostalgia i hear regularly in folks like sven birkerts bugs me (to say the least), esp. as (from a non-white male pov, if this isn't too much of a presumption on my part) the world of 80 or 90 years ago leaves SO MUCH to be desired, both spiritually and materially... not that anyone around here is a fan of birkerts, but--- best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 14:31:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: tendering opposition / Mills MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had to reformat this message. Chris -- From: "Mills, Billy" Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:17:43 -0000 On the subject of poetry and communication, here some extracts from Brian Coffey on that very subject. These quotes are from an interview with Parkman Howe sometime in the 70s. The question to which Brian was responding was: 'You have often said that you do not aim to communicate in your poetry.' 'Well, I want as a platform, if one is talking about poetry, that poets do not write in order to communicate. And if they do put themselves in the position of being communicators, then they are propagandists..... But what is communication? ...you have a sending device, you have a receiving device, and you have a medium for sending, and a bit of information: something like, say, the letter _o_. It goes in to the sending device and it is despatched so it is reproduced whole and entire, _o_, at the other end.... Now nothing has occurred really.... ..what happens when one encounters a new poem? Well, there is non-understanding to begin with, and, one hopes, non-preconception... Now. in such meetings there is not communication. There is something quite different going on that is extremely tentative on both sides. The tentativeness is something which has a long future ahead of it. It may end in rejection, it may end in something else.' Billy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:21:05 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Gelsinger Subject: Octavio Paz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Poetry Lovers Denied Access as Octavio Paz's memory is institutionalized Sunday, October 24, American poetry and the memory of Octavio Paz were betrayed as the public was denied access to a gala reading in tribute to the late Nobelist. To organize the event, The Mexican Cultural Institute of Washington, DC and New York and the Metropolitan Museum of Art collaborated with some of America's most prestigious cultural institutions: The Academy of American Poets, the Poetry Society of America (PSA) and others. Readers included U.S. Poet Laureate Robert Pinsky, Pulitzer Prize winner Mark Strand, John Kenneth Galbraith, Paz's primary translator, Eliot Weinberger, as well as other luminaries. Sure to be a popular event, it was advertised as a public affair in publications such as the Village Voice. The ads included a phone number and stated tickets (free) were to be distributed between 5-6 p.m. at the Met. Those calling the number to reserve tickets were told tickets could not be reserved and that reservations were unnecessary -- plenty would be available. I arrived at 4:55pm and joined a line of about 200 strong. Through the course of the hour, that number grew to over 500. People had come in from all parts of the city and outside New York. We waited in the blustery cold and received encouragement as late as 5:30 p.m. when a man announced that those already holding tickets should form a separate line; those without tickets should continue waiting. Those who waited in the small ticket-holding line of a couple dozen seemed to be characterized by thousand dollar suits or fashionable scarves. At approximately 6:00pm, the ticket-holding line was admitted. As soon as they were inside, the guards announced there were no more tickets. At no point as we were waiting (in the cold) were we told we may not get tickets; in fact, the opposite was indicated. After 25 minutes of protest, and after being told dozens of times that no more tickets were available, a small number of us (3 dozen or so) were allowed in and given tickets; ostensibly, we had made an ugly enough scene to warrant placation by the never-ugly Metropolitan. But only by pushing myself through guards and running up the escalator did I gain ingress. Once inside, I was struck by dozens of scattered but definitely empty seats. I entered the auditorium just as the director of the museum alluded to the unfortunate incident outside, which, he quipped, was due to the way Paz was fervently revered by so many. The audience chuckled as a wide and unmistakably supercilious smile spread across the director's face. Robert Pinsky, the master of ceremonies, made no allusion to what had happened. However, Mr. Pinsky was [indeed] aware of what had happened. I spoke to him for 5-10 minutes after the program, when he hastily expressed his regret but assured me I had no idea how busy and ill-equipped he was. With a great big smile, he averred he had no more control over the situation than I did. The day after the event, I contacted Monica Delatorre at the Mexican Cultural Institute at New York. Granted tickets were 400 guests and friends of the readers, sponsors, and staff of the sponsoring organizations such as the PSA, she explained. And although the Mexican Cultural Institute was aware the Grace Rainey Rogers Auditorium could hold only 800, but did not expect such a large crowd. As to why people waiting in line were not warned, she could only answer that the Metropolitan was responsible for actually handing out the tickets. Where her reports conflicted with my experience was in the number of free tickets given. She had heard 400 were given away. In my estimation no more than 50 of us were granted entrance, and we only received tickets after being told no tickets were available. Within the closed walls of the Museum auditorium Sunday evening, the event was a pleasure. But outside, it was a disgrace. It was an embarrassment to the cultural and poetry institutions, which reinforced that they are indeed institutions, nearly impregnable. For any poetry event, the circumstances surrounding the reading would have been intolerable. For this event in particular, they are unforgivable. Octavio Paz, who emphasized openness in so much of his work (and this emphasis was noted by the majority of the readers on Sunday) would have been saddened and angered to know hundreds of people were turned away from his supposedly public tribute. Compounding the hateful irony, Sunday's event seemed to demonstrate a dangerous political condition which Paz rebelled against: the intellectual elite's alliance with the social and economic elite. Paz's memory belongs to all who read and admired him. The exclusionist organizers of the event monopolized the honoring of his memory and dispensed it as a privilege -- granted to those with the right connections, large bank accounts, and Ph.Ds. In so doing, they desecrated his memory, which many turned away hold sacred. Last November, the PSA, a co-sponsor of the reading, held a weeklong program to discuss poetry's role in America. Hosting the program, as he hosted Sunday's tribute, was Robert Pinsky. The most obvious questions raised, and the ones most lengthily addressed, were why America is so cold towards poetry and what can be done to improve the deteriorating relationship between the public and the poetry. Although no one could offer a definitive solution to America's poetry crisis that weekend, no one suggested teasing our nation's cultural capital with a knockout reading and then denying access. Mr. Pinsky's role, however passive, is especially disturbing. By participating in the closed-door ceremonies, he acted as an inheritor of some hierarchical academic pedigree rather than as a democratic spokesman, embodying and facilitating the confluence of poetry and the public. As a friend pointed out to me, poetry has chronically suffered because it is considered a high art - property of a moribund aristocracy. Pinsky's job is to defy this qualification by bringing poetry to the people (he has tried to do so with programs like the favorite poem project). But as he acts antithetically to this purpose, academic poetry becomes more dependent on an increasingly uninterested patron elite. If an organization wants to hold an exclusive celebration for Octavio Paz that right is guaranteed. However, such a reading would not honor the spirit of Paz and should in no way claim to represent him in any official capacity. This reading, widely advertised, was clearly intended as just such an official tribute. For that reason, the city of New York - and on a much grander scale, the United States and Mexico, must acknowledge that this reading did not represent Octavio Paz or those who truly honor him. If the historical record reflects the identification of Paz with this reading, it will reflect an identification of Paz with exclusivity, thus perverting his memory by allying him with what he combated, through his work and through his art, all his life. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:51:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: Technology / the body/ immateriality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the most floridly morbid expressions of the idea that telecommunications media "dematerialize" the human body, see the pessimistic simulation theory of Jean Baudrillard, Paul Virilio, some of Fredric Jameson. There's lots of interesting, and not necessarily even *new* thinking, though, that challenges this: e.g., the socialist feminism of Donna Haraway. Haraway's work always reminds me that no matter how tempting it may be to say that I'm "dematerialized" in the act of speaking onto this List, my actual body is still sitting right here in the chair, typing--- it hasn't gone anywhere. I'd think "poets" would find it easier to remember this than "theorists," if only because being a poet, whether inside or outside the academy (at least in the U.S.), always involves an embattled relationship to practice--- the labor of poiesis, making, which is always manual labor even if it uses a word processor. As for the corporatization of Internet: only Utopians ever believed it wouldn't happen. Only pessimists believe that it can ever be complete. Internet is at once an instrument of world domination, and and an instrument of resistance to that domination. Tom Beckett wrote: > The shift away from the body--the immateriality of the new electronic media --seems like one of these to me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:54:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: L-poets and the body MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, If L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E-affiliated poets insisted on some shift of emphasis away from bodily or phonic presence, I'd say they did so more under the influence of French (Derridean) deconstruction---which still always requires the "creative" manual labor of writing--- than of American (de Manian) deconstruction, which is primarily negative/destructive of writing. In the context of U.S. poetries alone, the L-affiliated poets were unquestionably negative of "voice" and the body; but measured against the nihilism of someone like Jean Baudrillard they hardly seem *primarily* negative. They still believed in agency, though not the agency of the Romantic lyric subject. It's not a matter of flipping from one dualistic term to the other, but rather of reconceptualizing the dualism--- never entirely successfully, it's true: but then I don't think many of these poets saw themselves as the end of the line. I'd guess they saw themselves mainly as making an intervention, which would take (and has taken) its place in a spectrum of different conversations. Brian Lennon -----Original Message----- From: Safdie Joseph >Jacques mentions some exceptions to this general trend (e.g. >Leslie Scalapino), but is he in fact correct that the LPs as a whole were >reacting against the New American emphasis on the physical body? If this is >true (and accepting that dualism has placed its poisonous roots deep into >most of our souls), doesn't it follow that if we don't essentialize the body >we in fact wind up essentializing the mind? Isn't that the real cause of the >"peril" that Tom mentions above? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:16:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Kelley Subject: Need Henry Gould's email address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Backchannel please. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:22:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: the Luddites weren't Luddites In-Reply-To: <0.be83ee94.25524a63@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII " I'm not a luddite. But every new technology brings a raft of new perils" Actually, the Luddites weren't Luddites either. As E.P. Thompson stresses in The Making of English Working Class, the demonstrations and attacks and occupations, carried out under the banner of fictitious "leaders" like Ned Ludd and Captain Swing were not anti-technology (..it's a complex issue, and you can certainly read certain aspects of what they did as leaning in an anti-tech direction, but....); it appears that they were more about wanting control over work, and in opposition to unemployment, and the degradation of conditions and wages, which were associated of course with the spread of looms and steam power, etc. On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Tom Beckett wrote: > E-mail on listservs such as this functions like speech but without social > context--speech divorced from body language, gesture, eyeblink , etc. > Therein lies the nub of the problem for me. One comes to rely on strategic > overstatement to make one's point, often generating overreaction in return. > > > along with that paradigm shift. The shift away from the body--the > immateriality of the new electronic media --seems like one of these to me. > > Tom Beckett > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:02:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: a Larry Eigner poem, for Jacques Debrot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ***a Larry Eigner poem, for Jacques Debrot (from page 30 of: Waters / Places / A Time (Black Sparrow Press, 1983) you never know what is the group what picks it up ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 14:51:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: DAC 99 conference report / Marsh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had to reformat this message. Chris -- From: "William Marsh" Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:07:32 -0800 RE: POETICS Digest - 1 Nov 1999 to 2 Nov 1999 (#1999-206) might be a good time to chime in here with a brief report of this year's "Digital Arts and Culture" conference, held at Gerogia Tech in Atlanta -- on hand were hypertext notables Michael Joyce and Jay Bolter, Kate Hayles, Mary Flanagan, Loss Glazier, John Cayley, Christy Sheffield Sanford, Janet Murray, Robert Coover, Terry Harpold (conf chair), Johanna Drucker, and lots others -- with performances, talks and installations from a predominately US-based group but also UK, Canada, Germany, Norway, Belgium, Finland, Australia, and Uruguay represented in the mix like at many conferences, tight scheduling and overlapping sessions, as well as an intentionally over-saturated "digital" environment, made it impossible to hear and see everyone, but from my perspective there was a marked absence of discussions like those going on here among Miekal And, Tom Beckett, Steve Ellis and others -- rather, an underlying determinist and celebratory tone that almost preempted any talk about access, boundaries, limitations, costs, representation, etc. -- these issues came up later at dinners and late-night gatherings (also true of many confs) but the conference seemed for the most part organized around a "let's see what's hot in e-media today" mentality -- which both excited for the range of possibilities represented in the installations and bothered for the failure to make room for a more formalized critique of apparatus, distribution, production, not to mention the aesthetics of a burgeoning computer-based art and literature [Robert Coover's anachronistic call for a "return to the written word" in the concluding minutes of a 2-hour keynote speech nothwithstanding] true, the multi-million-dollar GTech facilities suggest an all-too-easy metaphor for the current relationship between acadamia and "new media" studies and practices -- but also several of the installations were and still are web-based pieces which anyone with the means to read this post can access via their modem/cable connections -- also, i was told that the conference proceedings will be re(web)casted within the next couple weeks and available using the free Real or QT players a lot of work done and to be done, a lot of questions -- state-of-the-art without enough talk on the state of the art more at: http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/events/dac99/ and for more on global connectivity: Terry Harpold's essay on metageographies at: http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~harpold/papers/dark_continents/index.html bill ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 03:50:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: announcement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" chax press with thanks to Dinnerware Contemporary Art Gallery presents a POETRY READING by Mong-Lan Frances Shoberg Sharon Preiss Friday, November 5, 7 pm at Dinnerware Contemporary Art Gallery 135 E. Congress Street, Tucson MONG-LAN is a writer and visual artist. Her poems appear or are forthcoming in several prominent American literary publications, including The Kenyon Review, The Iowa Review, Seneca Review, Quarterly West, Manoa, Pleiades, Berkeley Poetry Review, and The Pushcart Prize XXIV Anthology. FRANCES SHOBERG received a BA in Creative Writing from the University of Arizona. She has worked as an elementary school teacher in Mexico, a bartender, and a reporter for a construction news magazine. She currently works at the UA Poetry Center and serves as a member of the board of Kore Press. She is studying for a Master of Fine Arts degree at Warren Wilson College in Asheville, North Carolina. She is currently at work on a manuscript of poetry whose working title is "Quod me Nutrit, Me Destruit." SHARON PREISS earned an MFA in Poetry and Lit at Bennington College's low-residency program. She has published poems and book reviews in Massachusetts Review, Pif Magazine, Stud Duck, The Tucson Weekly, and elsewhere. She was awarded a New York State Arts Decentralization Grant for the production of City Poems: an urban monologue, based on the chapbook of the same name. In the spring of 1999 she won first place at the Tucson Poet slam. Currently she teaches for Bennington College and UA Writing Works. This reading occurs during the Dinnerware gallery exhibition of works by the artists Denise Kramer, Nadia Hlibka, Monique Mynlieff, and Gwyneth Scally. Chax Press is grateful to these artists not only for allowing, but for suggesting the possibility of this reading. Chax Press is a nonprofit, 501c3 organization, currently celebrating its 15th year. Our mission is to publish innovative literature in book arts and trade editions, and to present public events that educate the public as to the nature and diversity of contemporary innovative writing and the book arts. Since 1985 in Tucson these events have included literary readings, talks by artists and writers, series of readings and talks, artists’ residencies, open studio events, and more. This reading is free and open to the public; your donations to Chax Press are encouraged and gratefully received. from "An Excess of Fact", by Frances Shoberg of time metered out of that not meant to be carried in memory of the brine that rends the awful flesh of the living the ecstasy of a monitor's keeping time an electrically charged life an amnesiac integrated into the stream of blood, nearly stagnant pooling behind trussed legs -- and O how you will the mind to be flesh Coast (one section of a longer poem), by Mong-Lan 1 what are ten or a hundred years the blink the wait numb a nail diligent as wind scars tucked in your fists you cross the etched palm of the Pacific the ocean a letter written over the shore unread shred by waves How I Spent My Summer Vacation, by Sharon Preiss after Jimmy Schuyler's "The Morning of the Poem" With the crisp sea breeze splashing endlessly about my face my feet the sand between my toes sometimes sizzling sometimes soothing the best being walks at midnight moon full of sand gleaming sand full of moon streaming across the silk of the still sleeping sea but this is all a lie a dream of course a pleasant one and one that would and does include you because always when there is the sea there is you (especially when the sea is that sandy hook of eastern Massachusetts where we've sucked the life out of lobster and morning and memory many a time). If the truth be known and it will be for I am just about to tell it I did jack shit this summer which means nothing it means I did nothing such a strange expression and I am always fascinated about where such expressions come from and actually saw a fat reference book in a library once that explained the origin of such things and was such a gas I vowed someday to own my own copy but haven't yet even looked for it to buy anywhere or even looked for it in the library again to find out its name although I swear someday I will just like I swear someday I will have that summer vacation with you like the one I just described and have actually had before but really miss and want to have again soon because number one I miss you and number two I miss the ocean these two things beyond measure and number three because I have been working so hard at things for the last few years and have been so broke for the last many years that the words summer and vacation mean jack shit to me but evoke some foggy gray memory of you and make me notice that my city seems rather like a ghost town this August Saturday my skin as luminous white as the belly of the frog I just saw dangerously hopping across Central Avenue a block away from the park. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:19:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: R M Daley Subject: Re: movie STARS In-Reply-To: <199911050358.TAA06687@lanshark.lanminds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi all 1) reminding: BAY AREA ULTRAEVENT Friday nov 12 1999 ATA, 992 Valencia at 21st SF, CA 8pm BE THERE OR BE SQUARE only $3 for movies music readings and beer On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Elizabeth Treadwell wrote: > Hi all, > > Wanted to put a note here that we are especially interested in publishing > some FILMIC work in this issue, aka movie reviews, filmic treatises, homages > to Mae West, etc. Please b/c with queries. ...wanted to frontchannel with emphasis, ET et all, as to the ability to see us in action! ATA 992 Valencia SF CA 8pm Nov. 12 Friday 1999 good luck ET! TheLightsAreOut ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:55:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: miekal and dobyns and etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This argument about the democracy or undemocracy of the internet is getting ridiculous since every participant to the argument has, obviously, access to the internet. Here again is a process which excludes, by definition, the very people in whose interest it is ostensibly being conducted. Or is this ongoing debate a virtual version of caring for others (virtual love, virtual sex, virtual social conscience) essentially for the benefit of the participants. I do not quite know the difference between a virtual page and a page of a book, but the difference between virtual love, virtual sex, virtual conscience, and the other kind are quite clear to me. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:35:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: next week at the Poetry Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Monday, November 8th at 8 pm a reading by Denver Butson & Jorge Clar Denver Butson is the author of triptych, a selection of poems from three manuscripts: alarm clock alibies, the drowning ghazals, and remote and mocking sky (Commoner Press, 1999). Jorge Clar's reading/performances include Linda Evangelista in Love, Life on Earth, and Gardens. Wednesday, November 10th at 8 pm a reading by Kenneth Koch & Jordan Davis Kenneth Koch is one of the original New York School poets, along with John Ashbery and Frank O'Hara. He is the author of Straits, Making Your Own Days: The Pleasures of Reading and Writing Poetry (for which Jordan Davis, a former student of Koch's, was Koch's editorial assistant) and On the Great Atlantic Rainway: Selected Poems, for which he was awarded the Bollingen Prize for Poetry. A new book of poems, New Addresses, will be published by Knopf in May. Jordan Davis is the author of, most recently, Poem on a Train (Barque Books), and a Little Golden Book. He is an editor of the literary journal, The Hat, and an organizer of the Poetry City reading series at Teachers & Writers. This will be the first time that Davis and Koch read together. Friday, November 12th at 10:30 pm A reading for Latin Lovers an anthology of gay men writing about their gay loves just published by Painted Leaf Press. Readers include: Erasmo Guerra, Jaime Manrique, Guillermo Castro, Regie Cabico, David Garnes, and Tim Driscoll. All readings are $7 for nonmembers, $4 for students and seniors Readings are wheelchair-accessible with advance notice. Call 674-0910 for more information. *** If you would like to be removed from this e-mail list, respond with the message "please remove me" and we will be certain to do so. *** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:02:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Fogarty Subject: Re: internet costs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seeing as Tony Green hasn't returned on the library tip, I must say that the libraries here are terrible. You can use the university library but you must be a student to borrow books. I never could stay very long in this library [I lie, the last few days I have spent all day at a desk in there, but with nary a glance at the shelves] because it has a very orthodox selection of work; most of my favourite writers have but a token presence. The city library in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch are both free and both charge for new books. There is no public free internet. It's much cheaper to have your own connection than to use the cybercafes. University net time is very cheap also, but ohhhh so slow! On the poets tip. I have to say I can't really stand other poet's poems, and often the poets themselves. It's their earnest belief that they've produced work that has importance, it's their categorization of themselves as a poet. I'm in denial, I can't stand my own work which is why it stays where it is, locked within a folder on my hd. Perhaps you might enjoy it, perhaps not. I am more interested in the poetics of people's poetry; the reasons why, the explanations, interpretations and thoughtpaths. These are infinitely more interesting than the same set of marks on a page that never change. Er! I must run for that bus! Best regards Peter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:13:46 +0800 Reply-To: ambivalent@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mariah Corrigan Subject: Simone Weil: the madness for truth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity. It is given to very few minds to notice that things and beings exist. Since my childhood I have not wanted anything else but to receive the complete revelation of this before dying."—Simone Weil Hello you all. To follow is something possibly of interest..... SIMONE WEIL: The Madness for Truth Columbia University’s French and Francophone Studies and Semiotext(e) November 12th-14th Maison Française: Buell Hall, Columbia University Broadway at 116 Street. 212.854.4482 What can you say about one of the most brilliant philosophers of the 20th century who went around joining every revolution she could find, arguing with Trotsky and Bataille, mystifying Camus, espousing the merits of the ancient Greeks while wearing a burlap sack and ultimately starving herself to death? Alot, apparently. Papers by Julia Kristeva, readings by writers Fanny Howe, Francine du Plessix-Gray, Chris Kraus, Eileen Myles and a presentation by Florence de Lussy—Head Curator at Paris’ Bibliothèque Nationale; scripwriter/filmmaker Michael Tolkin; Bard College President Leon Botstein; Jewish specialists Michael Stanislawski, Jeffrey Mehlman and Sylvere Lotringer; Italian labor specialist Domenico Canciani; trade union organizer Catherine Cook; and French physicist Catherine Chevalley plus others. All accompanied by exhibit of SW's last notebooks. Saturday November 13th, 7:00pm Galapagos: 70 North 6th Street, Williamsburg, 718.782.5188. Galapagos hosts an evening of Weil-inspired video/performances including a new video by Louise Bourgeois and introduced by Robert Storr, MoMA; performances by Penny Arcade on ‘Simone’s Sex,’ Deb Margolin on ‘Jewish Looks,’ Sheree Rose on ‘Acts of God,’ plus the Mystery Meat Ensemble. MC’d by Jeffrey Jullich. Questions? Please call the above number, or www.columbia.edu/cu/french/maison “She proudly carried around her taste, or rather her madness for truth. And if this is a privilege, it is of the kind that one pays dearly for all through one’s life...” —Albert Camus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:27:02 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: heraclitus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joseph -- I wasnt suggesting anything about The Value. I was expecting something other than what was there. I liked the surprise of the unheralded insertion into netspace of this text, which looks as if it were chance-generated or systematic cut-up. I thought others might enjoy same. best Tony -- may I forward your reply to Alan Loney? -----Original Message----- From: Safdie Joseph To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, 6 November 1999 04:10 Subject: Re: heraclitus >Tony, I did as instructed, and, although I'm generally in favor of any >scheme that would deflect the grasp of capitalism from our private lives, >found the actual texts that were generated as a result less than >interesting. Were you suggesting that they had any value in and of >themselves? > >Joe >___________________________________________________ > >the list may find this of interest: check it out > >Tony Green > >>looking up heraclitus on the Web, I found this, do >>you know it? >> >>www.die.net/noise/p/o/p/index.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:57:32 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kathylou@ATT.NET Subject: Re: Business, class, access (fwd) ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: kathylou@att.net To: baratier@megsinet.net Subject: Re: Business, class, access Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:55:29 +0000 Again, this response brings with it a massive load of assumptions about *me* and where I have and haven't been. And you are simply kidding yourself if you think that class has nothing to do with access to time to write, educational opportunities, access to literary communities, access to the Internet, access to publications and being published, time to read, money to buy books, money to publish books, etc. Hurray for the steelworker who published a book. What does this prove? Is this the exception to the rule? And why is it that when folks speak up about class in poetry communities they are immediately accussed of being "victims" "whiners" etc.? Is this how you respond to racism? Or does racism exist, and classism doesn't? Get real. Kathy Lou > David Baratier: > There are many publishers outside & on this list who do not > >use the perpetual victim stance or "have not" status you are > attributing > >to the lower classes > > KL: > Question: How does bringing the power of analysis to bear on a > situation, > speaking out about it, and producing works in response to it constitute > being a "victim"? > > Answer: > > Are you asserting that you are analyzing the situation? Throughout your > posting you blame a social construct as a way to position yourself. The > implication of-- "I get very tired of this because money does buy > access: more time to write, money to publish one's own journals and > books, which in turn increases both community as well as publishing > opportunities for one's own work by increasing your 'profile' and > 'reputation.'" ---is that your working class background does not allow > you to go beyond the societal expectation inherent in class structure. > > "Publication being determined partly by who you know" The implication > that one cannot "know" anyone without ludicrous jacksons hits me as > another oppressive class myth. I know a guy who was a steelworker when > tri-quarterly published his first book. I know a guy who works in a > cranberry bog for numerous months each year, who is well published & one > of the latter half of this centuries best poets. And so on-- > > "There's a lack of access to the Internet, where one can hobnob with > publishers and magazine editors" Yet another victim statement. > Interested folks can go to the library for free, as mentioned. > > While not all of these quotes are yours, Kathy, as you also say, "the > quote from Bobbie implicates both Bobbie & myself, in a way laying > things bare, and saying, yup this is how it works." My question is, in > what way are you a reliable source for what occurs in the upper > eschelons of poetry if you have never been there? I also add, as a > person whose income is negligible, that I have not personally > experienced the insinuated discrepancies described. > > Be well > > David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:26:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE READING Comments: To: abdalhayy@aol.com, aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@SWARTHMORE.EDU, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HighwireN2@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, jmchenn@sas.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, MargBarr@aol.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@SWARTHMORE.EDU, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stephen.c.potter@ey.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm ************************************************************** HIGHWIRE GALLERY READING SERIES 129 N. 2ND STREET, PHILADELPHIA SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 1999 3 PM BYOB John Colleti and Heather Starr Following the reading, follow your leaders Kyle and Greg to Anthony's Olde City Pub for some only-in-Philly rot-gut. At 7:30 PM we'll all got to Giovanni's Room. C.A. Conrad will host a group reading to celebrate the publication of the Exquisite Corpse anthology published this year by Black Sparrow. John Colleti is a totally righteous dude. He is art director for Nylon Designs and is currently collaborating on a series of plays. Splayed Subtext Rendezvous 8th AVenue Nite Aid Hot Roles Farsighted Where Minds Play Wild Discovery Don't Throw Your Life Away Phoenix House Nearsighted La Nueva MEGA Know How Many Days Are Left A Story Inside Every Jacket Rockaway Call Us? We Can Help/Sponsored By Air France 6 AV New Jersey Rocking Rollers Daily News Television Helping To END TV At CUNY Open 24 Hours Subway Maps IPO To Fetch Banana Republic Record Stores Wild Discovery Of The Modern Are From The WINE STOP To Street The Siege The New York Eye & Infirmary Circuit Avenue Home? Whatever It's In L O O T Heather Starr is Program Manager for the Writer's House. She's given tons of props to the Philadelphia poetry scene, so don't be lazy, come out and support Heather. This Bow and Arrow cast a shadow. ribs of color. all i noticed was the curve. worn white stones. constant drifting. not target, and no open field in between. can you shoot an arrow safely over seas? strange weaving of arms. a young man from Ottawa, his face turned. a plank to water the island of irises. here, let's go back to town. we've been walking so long with our hands full. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:12:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Miekal and Dobyns, etc. Comments: To: jim@vispo.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Justice, as the result of some implicit intellectual formula in this domain of poetry, seems the result of making everything and everyone the SAME. Once HUD insists that eveveryonnee can have the SAME house that you and you have sweated afforded, then your book published by Henry Regenery and your book published by USPS art EQUAL. (I doubt you, Chris, will publish this post.) The fate of Virtu in Poetry lies in the out and out war between Karl Marx or the people who now manage the Panama Canal, those who would make all the SAME and the other team, say, The JoHn BiRcH SoCiEtY, the DIFFERENT, the people who envisioned/constructed the Panama Canal. ---------- >From: Jim Andrews >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Miekal and Dobyns, etc. >Date: Fri, Nov 5, 1999, 4:13 AM > >> Just want to state my agreement with Tom Beckett on this. Internet and >> e-mail are emphatically _not_ democratic media. > >What medium is democratic? What is a democratic medium? Radio and newspapers I >suppose are the closest to being available to all. But those are also media that >are not particularly open to input. > >> They are exclusionist. The >> poor are, as Tom notes, once again the excluded. > >It's true that it does cost money to be on the Internet and to have a computer. >And there are many countries, unlike just about all of Canada, where an Internet >connection is not possible. And the United States does control the Internet. That >needn't be the case, though, and if the Internet grows into a truly robust >international communications channel, cannot remain so. > >> Tom's point about electronic media militating against reflective habits of >> reading is also key. In fact, those subcultural groups that have so >> enthusiastically embraced the e-zone seem to have suspended their reflective >> attitudes in general. > >I don't understand your point about el. media militating against reflective >habits at all, really. There is unmindfulness in most quarters, el. or not. I >don't think it's a peculiarly el. phenomenon. And I have found that if you look >hard on the Internet, you find many quarters that are simply brilliant and deeply >reflective. > >> Electronic commerce is the future of capitalism, and >> those websites devoted to such marginal activities as the publication of >> 'innovative' poetries will be just as marginal in the virtual world as >> existing small press publishers are in the real one. > >Economically you mean? Perhaps. Although that remains to be seen. Artists have a >key advantage in this medium in that they can make Web sites and communicate in >this medium in a way that is not possible to most. And, as opposed to TV, film, >radio, and newspapers, they usually have access to it both as readers and >writers. It will be the artists, not the typical publishers and broadcasters, >etc., who establish dynamite publishing houses in various media on an >international basis. > >> Don't kid yourselves. The revolution will not be netcast. Oh, and books are >> not about to die. > >What revolution are you talking about? Liberty and justice and a PC and Internet >connection on the desktop for all? No, I suppose it won't. But it does seem that >there are some possibilities here for very widespread influence and action that >should not be so lightly discounted by a reflective person like yourself. The >trajectory is not so obviously a recapitulation of the status quo. > >You are debunking the myths of the popular press, and I suppose they need >debunking, but after debunking the inane, isn't a more considered criticism in >order? And isn't that what you find here on this electronic list, for instance? > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 15:17:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: Miekal and Dobyns, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Dillon: "I doubt you, Chris, will publish this post." I must say I never cease to be amazed at the inclination on the part of some, chiefly male subscribers to turn this list into a pissing contest. How is it that I can convince those among us of this tenor - not only Mr. Dillon, btw - that such things as vociferous criticisms of the work of one's fellows, public challenges and lines-drawn-in-the-sand, matter-of-fact dismissals and cutting remarks are a variety of boorish posturing in which I and numerous others among the 800 of us here are disinclined to participate - being here rather to converse about poetry than jock size. In future, if anyone wishes to "meet me after school," please make your request backchannel; in this way may we refrain from wasting everyone else's time. Chris % Christopher W. Alexander % poetics list moderator ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:14:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: phonaesthetic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII fellow travellers, i'm doing some work on the acoustic hermeneutic. i've been pouring over linguistics and psychology journals and find sentiments like the following quotation displays common: "The phonaesthetic properties of words have been used extensively by poets but we will not be concerned with them here." can anyone point me to some places where there is concern? i'm using jakobson's Six Lectures on Sound and Meaning as a starting point and kostelanetz' Text-Sound Texts for examples but i'msure there is more recent scholarship with relationship to current poetic practices. on another note, it's good to be back on poetics after time inside. it is a lot louder than i remember tho. thanks, kevin hehir ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:02:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Poets in towers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm trying to locate a book of lit crit about poets who lived/worked in >towers. I saw it in a catalogue recently, but I can't remember where. The >author was a woman, I think. Poets were Jeffers, Yeats, Rilke, and...(there >was a fourth). Anyone know the book? >Thanks, >Mark Melnicove Joyce lived in a tower. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:32:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dan raphael Subject: Where to read in Boston MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit will be in Boston for a weekend in April (after a nightlong red-eye from westcoast portland) and since i dont get out that way much, and am an energetic reader, would be fun to read there, if possible. please backchannel any ideas to query. thanks dan raphael ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 23:17:20 -0800 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Miekal and Dobyns, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where are the primary DNS servers? In the United States, aren't they? And doesn't this mean that other countries have Internet access strictly according to the whim of the United States or those who control the primary DNS servers? Don't the DNS (Dynamic Name Servers) contain the records that actually direct http requests to the appropriate computers on the network? Isn't it Network Solutions that controls the primary DNS servers? A few other companies can register domain names, but isn't it through Network Solutions' ultimate control of the content in the primary DNS servers? f i l c h wrote: > And the United States does control the Internet. > - said Jim. > > I said "This is bullshit Jim, TCP/IP controls the internet. Take the United > States out of the internet and the grammar still works and the networks > still run." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:48:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Lecture: Natural Kinds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Lecture: Natural Kinds Sat Nov 6 01:07:18 EST 1999 first off, I thought of a single node with numerous links; only one was connected, as if the others were absorbed in it. the centrality of it, the vulnerability of the other nodes, this was a misrecognition. i would have diagrammed this, a shimmering of the real in which each entity is affected. Sat Nov 6 01:08:29 EST 1999 further, it had to do with natural kinds; the question came literally to mind - is a "natural kind" a natural kind? what sort of universals occur? for example, think of water. Sat Nov 6 01:09:24 EST 1999 I then went to think of water. there are names in every language, in all possible worlds, but they are tied to water, water then remaining at the node, the shimmering of the forms, and connectivities, node to pointer of the proper name, but this seems insufficient. why so inefficient? let's say it has to do with data storage, a kind of stability generated. I'd lecture on this, improvise, continue, go ahead with all the ramifications. in my imagination, I pictured the audience, myself pacing back and forth on the stage, gravity taken for granted. Sat Nov 6 01:11:25 EST 1999 because the style of the world is that it remains, its obdurate nature, that things remain sufficiently in place for life to promulgate, memory to use devices. the subtexts of the devices are the encodings of the real, which are stable. it goes back, all of it, to non-equilibrium thermodynamics on ultra-fast time-scales from within. it goes back as well to nearly-decomposable hierarchies of the real, the impossibly slow decay, if any, of the proton, the relative emptiness of space, our planetary luck with our collisions. Sat Nov 6 01:13:02 EST 1999 more than that, the node as generator - all those names. or as if the node itself generated the names, locale after locale, their interdependencies and modification occurring on a superstructural level, but always already connected to the real. that's the inherent tendency of language, always - towards the real. Sat Nov 6 01:14:07 EST 1999 language of the real and towards the real; it's not disconnect, but connect so tightly that it literally becomes unimaginable. language and the real bound, not through parallelisms or empathies, but through natural kinds based on hyperstable tendencies of the universe as a whole. Sat Nov 6 01:14:59 EST 1999 fading from culture is fading from language, returning from culture is returning from language. where the returning or fading transforms, what teleologies, what places or spaces, is unsolvable - there is no solution, just as there are no places and spaces as such. Sat Nov 6 01:17:06 EST 1999 the solution is in the absence of the solution, in spite of which, worlds work away, as with the three- body problem - the world works, no matter the mathesis, which in our eyes, follows suit. Sat Nov 6 01:17:33 EST 1999 the descriptions are non-imagin- ary, unimaginable.Sat Nov 6 01:18:36 EST 1999 Sat Nov 6 01:18:36 EST 1999 Sat Nov 6 01:07:18 EST 1999 one that is realized, sensory bandwidths and relativisms become more and less important. less important, since techno- logical or linguistic extensions are literally that, on the deepest imag- inable level. more important, since the relativisms point to superstruc- turality in need of deconstruction, which can never be completed; every- thing is equally always already in a state of fading from culture. go where no one has ever gone before, to the deepest couplings and linkages of the world. then you might lose your grips on natural language, as you slip towards natural kinds. Sat Nov 6 01:18:09 EST 1999 the descriptions are non-imaginary, unimaginable.Sat Nov 6 01:18:27 EST 1999 _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 03:10:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: PhillyTalks 13, 12, 11 now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PHILLYTALKS #s 13, 12, 11 now available P H I L L Y T A L K S #13 newsletter + event RACHEL BLAU DUPLESSIS / BARRETT WATTEN Mon. Nov. 15th (1999) 6 pm, free Kelly Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk Philadelphia wh@english.upenn.edu (215) 573 9748 "PhillyTalks" invites two poets to begin a dialogue on each other's work, then have the resulting exchange published in newsletter form & made available to readers prior to (& after) the event. The poets, following their poetry reading, informally extend their dialogue. The audience then joins in. A future newsletter will feature a transcript of the event, as well as written responses to previous newsletters. CALL FOR RESPONSES: Please email lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, or write: Louis Cabri, 529B - 19 Ave SW, Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2S 0E3. AVAILABLE NOW ($2 ea.): #13: Rachel BLAU DUPLESSIS / Barrett WATTEN #12: Transcript & response issue: Andrew LEVY / Jackson MAC LOW. Response by Alan FILREIS. #11: Ammiel ALCALAY / Tom MANDEL (March 1997) Introduction by Joshua SCHUSTER. Back issues: #1: David BROMIGE / Laura MORIARTY #2: Andrew LEVY / Jackson MAC LOW #3: Jeff DERKSEN / Ron SILLIMAN #4: Tina DARRAGH / Jena OSMAN #5: Alan GILBERT / Rodrigo TOSCANO #6: Transcript & response issue: DERKSEN/SILLIMAN (#3) w/ BECKETT, FRIEDLANDER, JAEGER, KLOBUCAR et al #7: Brian Kim STEFANS / Fred WAH #8: Bruce ANDREWS / Rod SMITH #9: Steven FARMER / Peter GIZZI #10: Heather FULLER / Melanie NEILSON #s 1, 2, 3, 6 available at http://english.upenn.edu/~wh/phillytalks thanks to Aaron Levy; more to follow. Louis Cabri Curator, PhillyTalks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 08:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) Comments: To: Poetics List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some retro carpet-bagging on my part here. Tom Ammiano has made the mayoral runoff in San Francisco against Willie Brown. Brown has long been a social liberal who has used that stance to front for the most rapacious developers who've driven SF into a place where rental units now run $1,000 per month per bedroom (a far cry from the $350 I and my roommates paid in total for our 7-bedroom house in "Baja Pacific Heights" in the 1976-78 period). Ammiano is a stand-up comic who first got active in politics by pushing to protect the rights of gay teachers in the mid-1970s. He's currently the president of the county board of supervisors and ran a write-in campaign that garnered 25 percent of all votes with just $20,000 (compared to Brown's 39 percent thanks to a budget of $2.3 million). Voters ejected ex-mayor/ex-police chief Frank Jordan and political consultant Clint Reilly from the run-offs, two relatively conservative politicians who got 29 percent of the vote. Those of us who remember the late Harvey Milk are enheartened by a demonstration that populist politics need not be the know-nothing libertarianism of, say, a Jesse Ventura. You don't need to live in San Francisco to benefit from Ammiano's election in the December election. And you can help! Call 415-503-1529 or e-mail ammiano4mayor@yahoo.com to volunteer and help make history. If you would like to make a contribution, send a check made payable to "Tom Ammiano For Mayor" to: Ammiano for Mayor 125 Upper Terrace San Francisco, CA 94117 (if donation is $100 or greater, specify your occupation & employer) FPPC ID # 990924 Ron Silliman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:35:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: misc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm planning on adding to the debate about media and etc but life is getting complicated. I've had computer problems for the last 2 days. Plus there's been an unexpected death in my family, so I'll be leaving tomorrow to visit the town I was born in (haven't been back for more than 30 years) for a couple of days to attend to the business of saying goodbye to a person with whom I had a long and complicated emotional relationship. Tom Beckett ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 19:06:27 -0800 Reply-To: robintm@tf.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Tremblay-McGaw Organization: Trauma Foundation Subject: pain in the ass--class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In response to David Baratier's response to Kathy Lou Schultz's posting on class (which was in response to a posting by Jill Stengel): It might be interesting for people to take a wander over to the HOW2 forum on class and innovative writing for some very interesting responses to questions about class and innovative writing and also for a look at Schultz's essay on class and my piece looking at class, gender and genre in Dodie Bellamy's The Letters of Mina Harker. http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/current/forum/forum.html#west That said, I'd like to point out that each time this issue has come up on this list there has been a smattering of responses filled with hostility. Apparently, it is verboten to cast any kind of light at all on the topic. Of course, class and other issues related to power (feminist investigations spring to mind) always make some uncomfortable. Each of us is implicated. When the complexities of class bleed through imposed boundaries and definitions lots of frustration gets expressed. These complexities are problematic; they problematicize our conceptualizing, our reading, and our writing. They are multiple, not neatly categorized and powerful. They deserve attention, ever the more so for all the discomfort they cause. I'm with Will Alexander on this: "But what I speak of is the imaginal power to leap beyond the brutally imposed confines to combat the bureaucracies with an elemental seismics, with a new and alien thinking." Robin Tremblay-McGaw Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:51:28 +0000 From: David Baratier Subject: Re: Business, class, access David Baratier: There are many publishers outside & on this list who do not >use the perpetual victim stance or "have not" status you are attributing >to the lower classes KL: Question: How does bringing the power of analysis to bear on a situation, speaking out about it, and producing works in response to it constitute being a "victim"? Answer: Are you asserting that you are analyzing the situation? Throughout your posting you blame a social construct as a way to position yourself. The implication of-- "I get very tired of this because money does buy access: more time to write, money to publish one's own journals and books, which in turn increases both community as well as publishing opportunities for one's own work by increasing your 'profile' and 'reputation.'" ---is that your working class background does not allow you to go beyond the societal expectation inherent in class structure. "Publication being determined partly by who you know" The implication that one cannot "know" anyone without ludicrous jacksons hits me as another oppressive class myth. I know a guy who was a steelworker when tri-quarterly published his first book. I know a guy who works in a cranberry bog for numerous months each year, who is well published & one of the latter half of this centuries best poets. And so on-- "There's a lack of access to the Internet, where one can hobnob with publishers and magazine editors" Yet another victim statement. Interested folks can go to the library for free, as mentioned. While not all of these quotes are yours, Kathy, as you also say, "the quote from Bobbie implicates both Bobbie & myself, in a way laying things bare, and saying, yup this is how it works." My question is, in what way are you a reliable source for what occurs in the upper eschelons of poetry if you have never been there? I also add, as a person whose income is negligible, that I have not personally experienced the insinuated discrepancies described. Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 04:55:45 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Shurin review in the Chron Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed An excellent review of an excellent book by Aaron Shurin turns up in this week's SF Chronicle. That URL below should all be one line. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/11/07/RV87292.DTL ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:38:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: hanging text iii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - hanging text iii i've gone in as far as i can go. i'm choked on all of it. i'm waiting for you. i'm waiting for the line to hang up. i'm waiting to hang from the line. i'm kept hanging. i'm in there. i'm pressed out of your back. i'm pressed out between our legs. i'm broken in there. i'm all colors of the rainbow. i'm in shame. i'm hiding myself. i'm exposed. i'm troubled with all of this. i'm nowhere. there are no suns to tell. i know i'm bound to tell you. there's nothing to look at left or right. there's everything to look at which empties it all out. what could be, what is emptied out. there's no truth but i'd at least include this in what might be seen as a search for it. i stop by the nikuko shrine. it's ornate, ornamental, elaborate, convolu- ted, repetitive, baroque, rococo, encrusted. it's all over me. i dream of a black line through the deep carvings, gravures. it carries me like a lightning fork through it. i realize - in real life - i've swallowed frac- tal energies churning in me. they're black carrying my holes into unknown tunnels i enter to find myself hanging there. my words huddle together in the tunnels azure and i make into each other, forking. i can't hear anything and scent dominates, chemicals pressing into closed eyes. so i remember any scrolls i come across, there are a lot of them and i'm thinking about them. they unravel into a luminous eye: to be chanted by burned and hanging bodies: large and luminous eye, detached, in its fullness, circumscopic, sphere of surrounding waters reflecting within towards diffusing centers, there you would find, invisibly, coalescing of emanants we would not be acquainted with the emanants and their coalescing, nor of the large and luminous eye, lidless and always open to its internal light nor would we speak of size in this indeterminacy of the sphere, emptiness surrounding, nor would we speak of the quality of this emptiness, nor of diffusing centers or diffusing center, nor of number before number nor of the moments, before which time moved exponentially from infinity, into and out of infinity, nor primordial concepts of into and out of, nor primordial concepts of infinity thinking when time beginning exponentially, thinking of the singularity of the vector or ray, the direction among sphericities, growth of a circular nimbus on the exterior, primordial exteriors, waves of circumscriptions, splittings and emergent emanants primordial names among with nikuko emerging, of wisdom and ambiance, turning back towards diffusing centers, submerging, primordial pulsings and rhythms and meanings the beginnings of shrines and primordial powers, emergences without beginning, paradoxes of progress and development, the eye, i, i, i, i, i now so sadly hanging burned upon the tree, now turning slowly in the wind, now long gaunt arm descending, now long fingers almost touching the ground, slowly turning around the object, slowly grasping it _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:57:48 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "r.drake" Subject: factoid In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Happed across the Lycos "top 50" popular search words: http://50.lycos.com/ and noticed that "poetry" was number 8. that's up from #9 last week (just behind Pamela Anderson and WWF), and displacing the NFL, which fell to #10. what does it all mean? and what are all those folks searching for when they type in "poetry"? lbd ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 19:06:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Small Press Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This weeks small press publications list is now online. The deadline for the next listing is Nov 19. www.durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 23:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Andrews Subject: BELLADONNA READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ENJOY BELLADONNA* (*deadly nightshade, a cardiac and respiratory stimulant, having purplish-red flowers and black berries) Brilliant San Franciscan PAM LU & New York's Own KRISTIN STUART reading at BLUESTOCKINGS women's bookstore 172 Allen Street TUESDAY NOVEMBER 16TH AT 8 PM (212-777-6028) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 01:45:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: TEST_COERCION_TO_CHAR.OUT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 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hang text if the cat hangs; hang text if its new; pointer to your life; your life everywhere; mmmm... hang whatever might be the presence of animals; if something is new or out of the ordinary; if you need pointers for living; you're not omnipotent; hmmm... hang all presences to be freed; whatever is ordinary is invisible; pointing the way of all life; you're always invisible; bmmm... presences are freed; whatever is new is unforeseen; the way of all life is unforeseen; whatever is new is invisible; hmmm... you're freed and unforeseen; there is no way of all life; nothing is old, nothing new; mmmm... visibility of life; hangings; presences; animals; cats; nothing; m ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 09:32:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Merwin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone on the list know of any upcoming dates on which W.S. Merwin will be reading? Thanks Brent A. Long ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:40:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: the renga In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Grant -- I'm all for it -- but I should mention -- the renga provoked the biggest dropoff in list membership -- bigger even than any meatflap debate scribbling -- Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 10:57:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: The Use of This Listserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested, love renga and collab, am participating in two cyber rengas now. Layne Grant Jenkins wrote: > With all of this discussion about the nature of the internet and its > relation to poetry, I'm wondering why we use this listserv mostly for > debates and advertisement. > > I think most of us would agree that collaboration and community are what > make the poetry we are interested in different. Aren't we supposed to be a > group of poets and people interested in poetics (poeticists?)? Then why > don't we use this listserv for more creative purposes? > > Does anyone remember the renga that was spontaneously composed on this > listserv around the death of Ginsberg? Why don't we do more of that? > > Anyone interested? > > grant j > virginia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 14:32:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: Re: renga redux In-Reply-To: <447551.3151059711@poetrygrad1.lib.buffalo.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chris Alexander wrote: >Perhaps if someone would volunteer to >be the renga custodian, so that the list wouldn't be flooded >with such messages? That is, this volunteer could collect >and assemble the responses backchannel, sending updates to >the list periodically. I think David Israel performed this >service for us with the renga written for the late, loved >Allen Ginsberg during his illness in March-April 1997. > >In any case, I want to avoid having 15 renga-related >messages coming to the list every day, as happened before. Since it was my redux, I would gladly volunteer to be the e-seamstress of a collaborative fabric. I simply think this listserv could serve not simply as a bulletin board for immediate concerns but as a kind of anthology or tapestry of collective, communal art. At least, that is how I would like people to look back on this endeavor in the future. Please send ideas, fragments, lines, and other contributions to me: grantmj@hsc.edu. I will try to send updates to the list as often as my schedule allows. Grant ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:15:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: f i l c h Subject: Re: Miekal and Dobyns, etc. Comments: To: jim@vispo.com In-Reply-To: <38229FC0.6AC0D8@speakeasy.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit And the United States does control the Internet. - said Jim. I said "This is bullshit Jim, TCP/IP controls the internet. Take the United States out of the internet and the grammar still works and the networks still run." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:44:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eckerd College Review Subject: Re: your mail (fwd) Comments: To: People Who Might Be Interested in ECR Contest -- Alan Cockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, Alan Davis , AlanCockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, Allen David Barry , Amitava Kumar , AndiMatherne , Andrew Smiley , angie davidson , Anne Barrows , AnnJennings , april greer , Becky Hepinstall , Bev Marshall , beverly vidrine , Bill Lavender , "Blanche A. Bell" , Boyd Girouard , BrendaCary , Brian Andrew Laird , Brian O'Donnell , CathyBishop , Cedelas Hall , charles bernstein , Charles Hunt , Chere' Coen , Cheryl Torsney , christine watt , Chuck Thompson , ClaraConnell , Clayton Delery , contemporary poetry list , Cynthia Harper <5SatLib-SanAntonio@ca5.uscourts.gov>, "D.J. Shaw" , Darrell Curtis , David Duggar , David Holcomb , "David J. LeMaster" , David Kuhne , dayne allan sherman , Deborah L Siegel , deborah novak , Deborah Phelps , Dedria Givens , Delane Tew , Delores Merrill , Diane M Farrington , Dodie R Meeks , dominique ryon , DONALD JACOBSON , Donya Dickerson , doris meriwether , "DWooleylll@aol.com" , "Edelma D. Huntley" , Eliza Miller , "Emily W. McAllister" , eric mcneil , geetha ramanathan , George Elliott Clarke , Geri Taran , Glynnauth , Hank Lazer , "harry d. stewart" , "J. Paulette Forshey" , jack bedell , janet bowdan , Janet McCann , jberry@dps.state.1a.us, jda8531@usl.edu, "Jeanine B. Cook" , jeff dear , Jeff Goldstein , Jeff Lodge , "JGray46412@aol.com" , Jim white , Joel Kuszai , john august wood , "John P. Doucet" , Joy Graham , "Joyce S. Brown" , Judith Meriwether , Julie Hebert , Karen Ford , Karleen Wooley , Kathy Gruver , Kathy Ptacek , kevin johnson , Kevin Murphy , Kevin Murphy , Larry Anderson , laura taylor , Libby Nehrbass , lila walker , Linda M Schopper , Louis Gallo , louisiana , Luis Urrea , LVSadler , LWilson213 , lynne castille , M Butz , MANNY SELVIN , MarcellaDurand , marcia gaudet , Marie Plasse , MARSHA BRYANT , Mary Alice Cook , Mary Hillier Sewell , Mary Kay McAllister , mary tutwiler , MaryCappello , MaryCotton , Maura Gage , Megan Farrell , Michael and Charisse Floyd , Michael Mandel , miki nilan , molly-cole , murray schwartz , Nancy Richard , Norman German , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Pat McFerren , Patrice Melnick , Patricia Burchfield , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , ralph stephens , Randy Prunty , Rhonda Blanchard , rita hiller , rlehan , Robert Brophy , Robin and Charles Weber , Robin Kemp , Robley Hood , Rogan Stearns , Rosalind Foley , Ruth Rakestraw , s , Sam Broussard , Sandy Labry , Sara Wallace , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Stacey Bowden , Staci Bleecker , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Barancik , Steve Wilson , Suzanne Mark , TABORWARRN , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Tatiana Stoumen , Tim Smith , Timothy Naterer , Todd Nettleton , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Sylvester , Zach Smith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Poets, We thought you might be interested in receiving the guidelines for the first annual _Eckerd College Review_ Poetry Contest, recently advertised in _Poets & Writers Magazine_. If you're not interested, we apologize for inconveniencing you. ECR is a literary magazine of fiction and poetry produced by the writing workshop at Eckerd College in St. Petersburg, Florida. Our most recent issue included a number of fine poets: Dannie Abse, Ruth Schwartz, Betty Adcock, and Dana Gioia, among others. In the past, writers such as Red Hawk, Katheryn Stripling Byer, Dorothy Allison, Elie Wiesel, Fred Chappell, and R.T. Smith have appeared in our pages. We accept submissions of short fiction (fewer than 25 pages) and poetry (no more than 75 lines). A brief cover letter with a biographical note is appreciated. We do not accept submissions via disk or e-mail, and we cannot consider simultaneous submissions. All contest entries are subject to the same guidelines as regular submissions (cover letter, bio note, etc.). Contest entries should be clearly marked "Poetry Contest." The first round of judging will be completed by ECR editorial staff. The winning poet will receive $500; 2nd and 3rd place poets will receive $50; all winning poems will be published in the Spring 2000 issue of ECR. All contest entries will be considered for publication. Please include a self-addressed stamped envelope and a processing fee of $7 for three poems ($3 for each additional poem) with your entry. Checks should be made payable to The Eckerd College Review and addressed to: The Eckerd College Review Poetry Contest 4200 54th Avenue South St. Petersburg, FL 33711 All submissions to ECR, regular or contest, should arrive before December 1, 1999. Expect a response time of 3 to 6 months. Also, please note that we will be unable to reply to individual questions regarding the contest; refer to resources such as the _Poets' Market_ for general poetry submission guidelines. We look forward to reading your work! Sincerely, Cecily Iddings Tomas Radcliffe, Editors ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:59:26 +0000 Reply-To: archambeau@lfc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Archambeau Organization: Lake Forest College Subject: Re: renga redux MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Renga Beginning and Ending with a Line by Christopher Alexander "What is certain is that the renga's occlusion of other conversation became tedious after a time" To be continued by Grant Jenkins on subsubpoetics if he so desires. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 15:01:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: query Comments: To: toddbaron@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <382339E4.785D@earthlink.net> from "Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers" at Nov 5, 1999 08:11:15 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers: > > dear List: > > Truly wanting to use the list to co-respond with others--I posted a > question teh last week. "What do you consider to be the first American > (of the U.S.) poem"? Okay, I'll bite. I don't understand "before Bradstreet" in English, in the U.S. - who would that be? And in fact, if I have to pick someone, some poem, in this way, I'd say Bradstreet's as good as anyone - particularly "On My Dear Grandchild Simon Bradstreet," for its utterly sarcastic tone regarding God's divine providence - a tone which prefigures Dickinson's in poems like "I'm 'wife' -- I've finished that." All of the truisms about God's wisdom and grace here are couched by "Let's," my favorite being the extra-tentative "Let's say He's merciful as well as just." Everytime I read this I feel like responding, "Alright, what the hell, let's say it." For something more explicitly U.S.-ish, how 'bout Phillis Wheatley's "To His Excellency General Washington" which inaugurates the cooptation of Amurika's revered terms ("The land of freedom's heaven-defended race") by the marginalized. How did Creeley put it - "America, give us our country back"? Somethin like that. -Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 09:50:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim White Subject: Re: your mail (fwd) Comments: To: Eckerd College Review Comments: cc: People Who Might Be Interested in ECR Contest -- Alan Cockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, Alan Davis , AlanCockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, Allen David Barry , Amitava Kumar , AndiMatherne , Andrew Smiley , angie davidson , Anne Barrows , AnnJennings , april greer , Becky Hepinstall , Bev Marshall , beverly vidrine , Bill Lavender , "Blanche A. Bell" , Boyd Girouard , BrendaCary , Brian Andrew Laird , Brian O'Donnell , CathyBishop , Cedelas Hall , charles bernstein , Charles Hunt , Chere' Coen , Cheryl Torsney , christine watt , Chuck Thompson , ClaraConnell , Clayton Delery , contemporary poetry list , Cynthia Harper <5SatLib-SanAntonio@ca5.uscourts.gov>, "D.J. Shaw" , Darrell Curtis , David Duggar , David Holcomb , "David J. LeMaster" , David Kuhne , dayne allan sherman , Deborah L Siegel , deborah novak , Deborah Phelps , Dedria Givens , Delane Tew , Delores Merrill , Diane M Farrington , Dodie R Meeks , dominique ryon , DONALD JACOBSON , Donya Dickerson , doris meriwether , "DWooleylll@aol.com" , "Edelma D. Huntley" , Eliza Miller , "Emily W. McAllister" , eric mcneil , geetha ramanathan , George Elliott Clarke , Geri Taran , Glynnauth , Hank Lazer , "harry d. stewart" , "J. Paulette Forshey" , jack bedell , janet bowdan , Janet McCann , jberry@dps.state.1a.us, jda8531@usl.edu, "Jeanine B. Cook" , jeff dear , Jeff Goldstein , Jeff Lodge , "JGray46412@aol.com" , Joel Kuszai , john august wood , "John P. Doucet" , Joy Graham , "Joyce S. Brown" , Judith Meriwether , Julie Hebert , Karen Ford , Karleen Wooley , Kathy Gruver , Kathy Ptacek , kevin johnson , Kevin Murphy , Kevin Murphy , Larry Anderson , laura taylor , Libby Nehrbass , lila walker , Linda M Schopper , Louis Gallo , louisiana , Luis Urrea , LVSadler , LWilson213 , lynne castille , M Butz , MANNY SELVIN , MarcellaDurand , marcia gaudet , Marie Plasse , MARSHA BRYANT , Mary Alice Cook , Mary Hillier Sewell , Mary Kay McAllister , mary tutwiler , MaryCappello , MaryCotton , Maura Gage , Megan Farrell , Michael and Charisse Floyd , Michael Mandel , miki nilan , molly-cole , murray schwartz , Nancy Richard , Norman German , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Pat McFerren , Patrice Melnick , Patricia Burchfield , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , ralph stephens , Randy Prunty , Rhonda Blanchard , rita hiller , rlehan , Robert Brophy , Robin and Charles Weber , Robin Kemp , Robley Hood , Rogan Stearns , Rosalind Foley , Ruth Rakestraw , s , Sam Broussard , Sandy Labry , Sara Wallace , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Stacey Bowden , Staci Bleecker , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Barancik , Steve Wilson , Suzanne Mark , TABORWARRN , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Tatiana Stoumen , Tim Smith , Timothy Naterer , Todd Nettleton , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Sylvester , Zach Smith In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII do check out our new website for writers and artists... www.americanartists.org thanks jim white ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 14:14:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Subject: Re: The Use of This Listserv In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Does anyone remember the renga that was spontaneously composed on this > listserv around the death of Ginsberg? Why don't we do more of that? > > Anyone interested? Well yes, but wouldn't we have to kill someone first? Cheers, David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Kellogg Duke University kellogg@acpub.duke.edu Program in Writing and Rhetoric (919) 660-4357 Durham, NC 27708 FAX (919) 660-4372 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:41:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Clay Subject: Fagin/Winkfield DIG & DELVE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Granary Books and Poetry City invite all to a publication party for an amazing new collaborative book by Larry Fagin and Trevor Winkfield called Dig & Delve. The party will be held Thursday Nov 11 from 7-9 (the entrance door locks at 8) at Teachers & Writers 5 Union Square West, 7th floor NY NY Further information about this book (Mr. Winkfield's first full color book) including example pages will be posted on the Granary website in a week or so. Hope to see you there. Steve Clay Steve Clay Granary Books 307 Seventh Ave., #1401 NY, NY 10001 http://www.granarybooks.com tel 212 337-9979 fax 212 337-9774 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:52:03 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: rengaitis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will watch the proposed renga & guess that I will be, first, deleting a lot, & maybe , second, setting: poetics-list no mail until it's over - _collaborative_ verbal spillage & seepage soon got tedious last time out -- after about a week -- I'd hopefully suggest a renga go on a renga list Tony Green ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:04:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jorge Guitart Subject: Re: the renga In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i am sorry we did that to the list. the renga doesn't have to be on the list, though. j On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Jordan Davis wrote: > Grant -- > > I'm all for it -- > but I should mention -- > the renga provoked the biggest dropoff in list membership -- > bigger even than any meatflap debate scribbling -- > > Jordan > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:20:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: phonaesthetic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, Work by Reuven Tsur and Garrett Stewart might be of interest here -- neither, though, without their problems (especially Tsur, who almost seems to insist on a kind of transcultural, transhistoric "legibility" of the onomatopoetic qualities of vowel sounds. But worth looking at as one example of how the universalist hopes of a certain strain of Moscow/Prague linguistics [one recalls Jakobson's commitment to Khlebnikov and the project of zaum] can be leaned on and pushed into a more recuperative mode by more recent practitioners). From a less literary perspective, there's a recent anthology edited by Steve Roden and Brandon Labelle (sp?) of California electroacoustic/sound-art ensemble id battery. I'll hunt down the title and backchannel you. Pieces in this one tend to deal more with the liminal zones between acoustic hermeneutics and acoustic phenomenology, with an eye to the particular properties of electrically and electronically recorded sound. Other work in this rough area might include Pierre Schaeffer's writings on musique concrete (some of which are housed at UbuWeb), and the writings on acoustic ecology and related themes referenced and linked by the World Soundscape Project, whose URL follows: http://www.sunsite.ubc.ca/WorldSoundscapeProject/wsp.html And many suggestive pieces, of course, in both _Close Listening_ (ed. Charles Bernstein, U of Chicago) and _Sound States_ (ed. Adelaide Morris, Duke UP). Also, might be interesting to follow out some of the suggestions in Nate Mackey's work -- both poems and essays -- in looking at "the creaking of the word," (a Dogon concept, if I'm not mistaken, taken up in _Discrepant Engagement_, a relevant "third-party" discussion of which takes place in the Harryette Mullen interview in COMBO #1), the "rasp," etc., as features of African and Afro-diasporan musical/poetic practices. And Jacques Attali's treatment of noise as the coding of social violence/eruption of violence within social codes continues to be a jumping-off point, though problematic in terms of the near-transparency it often posits between the history of modes of production in the "economist" sense, and the history of modes of cultural production. I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff, but time and resources are limited from where I sit. Instinct tells me, though, that at least a brief foray beyond the linguistic and literary might be of some use in this project. Anyhow, I hope some of this has been helpful. Best, Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of K.Angelo Hehir Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 5:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: phonaesthetic fellow travellers, i'm doing some work on the acoustic hermeneutic. i've been pouring over linguistics and psychology journals and find sentiments like the following quotation displays common: "The phonaesthetic properties of words have been used extensively by poets but we will not be concerned with them here." can anyone point me to some places where there is concern? i'm using jakobson's Six Lectures on Sound and Meaning as a starting point and kostelanetz' Text-Sound Texts for examples but i'msure there is more recent scholarship with relationship to current poetic practices. on another note, it's good to be back on poetics after time inside. it is a lot louder than i remember tho. thanks, kevin hehir ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:28:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Lennon Subject: contact info request: Ronk/Vangelisti/Phillips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Are you out there, or anyone have contact info for: Martha Ronk Paul Vangelisti Dennis Phillips ---or anyone else affiliated with Littoral? It's about a review of _Alphabets_. Backchannel, thanks. Thanks Brian Lennon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:59:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: Alcalay and Cole at Small Press Traffic, 11/12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1270013322==_ma============" --============_-1270013322==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Small Press Traffic presents: Friday, November 12, 7:30 p.m. Ammiel Alcalay reading and interviewed by Norma Cole Ammiel Alcalay, scholar, critic, translator, poet and prose stylist, author of The Cairo Notebooks, makes a rare appearance in San Francisco to celebrate the publication by City Lights Books of his new book, Memories of Our Future: Selected Essays, 1982-1997. He will read from his work, old and new, and then will be joined on stage by San Francisco poet and translator Norma Cole, who will ask him about his multifold talents and accomplishments, and his translation as activism. With this event Small Press Traffic launches "In To View," a new series which hopes to illuminate in a discursive mode the issues, concerns and unspoken assumptions of the best writers of our day. "Over the past fifteen years," writes Alcalay, "I have focused primarily on Hebrew and Jewish literature of the Middle East, in its Islamic, Levantine Arabic, and Israeli contexts. My work on Bosnia during the war in former Yugoslavia has entailed similar efforts at creating the cultural space for unfamiliar works to emerge. Throughout, my work as poet and prose-writer remains a crucial reference point, representing a kind of standard in form and content that I insist my other writing (and translation) adheres to." Alcalay's poetry, prose, reviews, critical articles and translations have appeared in The New York Times Book Review, The New Yorker, Time Magazine, The New Republic, The Village Voice, The Jerusalem Post, Grand Street, Conjunctions, Sulfur, The Nation, Middle East Report, Afterimage, Parnassus, City Lights Review, Review of Jewish Social Studies, The Review of Contemporary Fiction, The Michigan Quarterly, Caliban, Paper Air, Paintbrush, Mediterraneans, and various other publications. Norma Cole's most recent works are Desire & Its Double (Instress, 1998), Spinoza in Her Youth (A.bacus February, 1999), and Scout, a slide-text presentation. Her current translation work includes a selection of French writing and poetics called Crosscut Universe forthcoming from Burning Deck. Her translations of Anne Portugal's book Nude is forthcoming from Green Interger, and also of Lebanese writer Fouad Gabriel Naffah's poetry is forthcoming from Post Apollo Press. Cole has been the recipient of Gertrude Stein Awards, as well as awards from The Fund for Poetry. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1270013322==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" TimesSmall Press Traffic presents: Friday, November 12, 7:30 p.m. Ammiel Alcalay reading and interviewed by Norma Cole Ammiel Alcalay, scholar, critic, translator, poet and prose stylist, author of The Cairo Notebooks, makes a rare appearance in San Francisco to celebrate the publication by City Lights Books of his new book, Memories of Our Future: Selected Essays, 1982-1997. He will read from his work, old and new, and then will be joined on stage by San Francisco poet and translator Norma Cole, who will ask him about his multifold talents and accomplishments, and his translation as activism. With this event Small Press Traffic launches "In To View," a new series which hopes to illuminate in a discursive mode the issues, concerns and unspoken assumptions of the best writers of our day. "Over the past fifteen years," writes Alcalay, "I have focused primarily on Hebrew and Jewish literature of the Middle East, in its Islamic, Levantine Arabic, and Israeli contexts. My work on Bosnia during the war in former Yugoslavia has entailed similar efforts at creating the cultural space for unfamiliar works to emerge. Throughout, my work as poet and prose-writer remains a crucial reference point, representing a kind of standard in form and content that I insist my other writing (and translation) adheres to." Alcalay's poetry, prose, reviews, critical articles and translations have appeared in The New York Times Book Review, The New Yorker, Time Magazine, The New Republic, The Village Voice, The Jerusalem Post, Grand Street, Conjunctions, Sulfur, The Nation, Middle East Report, Afterimage, Parnassus, City Lights Review, Review of Jewish Social Studies, The Review of Contemporary Fiction, The Michigan Quarterly, Caliban, Paper Air, Paintbrush, Mediterraneans, and various other publications. Norma Cole's most recent works are Desire & Its Double (Instress, 1998), Spinoza in Her Youth (A.bacus February, 1999), and Scout, a slide-text presentation. Her current translation work includes a selection of French writing and poetics called Crosscut Universe forthcoming from Burning Deck. Her translations of Anne Portugal's book Nude is forthcoming from Green Interger, and also of Lebanese writer Fouad Gabriel Naffah's poetry is forthcoming from Post Apollo Press. Cole has been the recipient of Gertrude Stein Awards, as well as awards from The Fund for Poetry. New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1270013322==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:04:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) In-Reply-To: <006b01bf285d$027ed7c0$9328fea9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron, Thanks for sending this -- voting for Ammiano is the first time I've participated in electoral politics (outside of union elections) and felt good about it the day after. Being a recent arrival, and living in one of the city's more left-leaning neighborhoods, I don't have any very accurate way to judge how the runoff might go -- but based on bus-stop talks, running into people at tenants' meetings, pizza joints, et al, the support for Tom seems to be far deeper than the Chron/Ex "don't worry, Mr. Fisher, it's just a protest vote" line would seem to indicate. Of course, my live-in landlord -- who rakes in $1250 a month for the single room my wife and I share -- walked in on a conversation I was having with a friend touching on Ammiano's campaign, and delivered himself of a fairly histrionic litany of reasons not to vote for the "gay Mao." I wish I were exaggerating here, but to see how apparently acceptable as public discourse this sort of homophobic red-baiting has become (once again) since Ammiano's showing on election day, take a look at today's Chron editorial cartoon, which depicts a man and woman, presumably a hetero couple, looking at an Ammiano campaign poster: MAN: "How can I vote for him? He's a...you know..." WOMAN: "Yeah. Marxist." So we have something of a struggle on our hands, and the call for contributions is certainly apropos. As would be, perhaps, more letters to the editor like today's, which asks the pertinent question why Willie Brown's sexual profile hasn't been attached to his name as a de facto part of his job description. Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ron Silliman Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 5:44 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) Some retro carpet-bagging on my part here. Tom Ammiano has made the mayoral runoff in San Francisco against Willie Brown. Brown has long been a social liberal who has used that stance to front for the most rapacious developers who've driven SF into a place where rental units now run $1,000 per month per bedroom (a far cry from the $350 I and my roommates paid in total for our 7-bedroom house in "Baja Pacific Heights" in the 1976-78 period). Ammiano is a stand-up comic who first got active in politics by pushing to protect the rights of gay teachers in the mid-1970s. He's currently the president of the county board of supervisors and ran a write-in campaign that garnered 25 percent of all votes with just $20,000 (compared to Brown's 39 percent thanks to a budget of $2.3 million). Voters ejected ex-mayor/ex-police chief Frank Jordan and political consultant Clint Reilly from the run-offs, two relatively conservative politicians who got 29 percent of the vote. Those of us who remember the late Harvey Milk are enheartened by a demonstration that populist politics need not be the know-nothing libertarianism of, say, a Jesse Ventura. You don't need to live in San Francisco to benefit from Ammiano's election in the December election. And you can help! Call 415-503-1529 or e-mail ammiano4mayor@yahoo.com to volunteer and help make history. If you would like to make a contribution, send a check made payable to "Tom Ammiano For Mayor" to: Ammiano for Mayor 125 Upper Terrace San Francisco, CA 94117 (if donation is $100 or greater, specify your occupation & employer) FPPC ID # 990924 Ron Silliman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:07:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: phonaesthetic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, You might try: http://www.conknet.com/~mmagnus/ and http://www.percep.demon.co.uk/pfol4th.htm [I haven't found much on this, either...]. Best, Dan "K.Angelo Hehir" wrote: > fellow travellers, > > i'm doing some work on the acoustic hermeneutic. i've been pouring over > linguistics and psychology journals and find sentiments like the following > quotation displays common: "The phonaesthetic properties of words have > been used extensively by poets but we will not be concerned with them > here." > > can anyone point me to some places where there is concern? i'm using > jakobson's Six Lectures on Sound and Meaning as a starting point and > kostelanetz' Text-Sound Texts for examples but i'msure there is more > recent scholarship with relationship to current poetic practices. > > on another note, it's good to be back on poetics after time inside. it is > a lot louder than i remember tho. > > thanks, > kevin hehir ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:31:04 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: internet costs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > I must say that the >libraries here are terrible. > >Best regards >Peter our town is very small a few thousand bods our branch public library is useless for any book i'd like to look at but the internet is free and reasonably fast but yesterday it was down whyche happens about once every six weeks so not a bad service if it wasn't here i wouldn't be able to fire up the mess of wires i got at home the modem would wonder what it was speaking to!!!! pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:48:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: earliest american poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about the Lenni-Lenape _Walum Olum_? Or the one-word message carved in a tree by the lost Roanoke colony: "Croatoan"? ["a cartoon"/"at corona"?] Or something by a soldier or priest from St. Augustine? Or Gloucester? {Olson may have identified it...Winthrop's "city on a hill" bit?} Hornbook verse? "Whales in the sea / God's voice obey"? Runic inscriptions [the Kensington Stone]? That bucket of beads for Manhattan? What the thunder said? --Dan Zimmerman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:50:49 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: origin of American poetry spells trouble Comments: cc: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Truly wanting to use the list to co-respond with others--I posted a > question teh last week. "What do you consider to be the first American (of the U.S.) poem"? This is a difficult question, because in it are two loaded words, "American" and "poem." A valuable question, with unexpected results, even upon a cursory glance. I have written the following questions/phrasings to elucidate the multiplicities necessary for me to consider any answer, which is sure to be full of "and"s and "or"s. None of the following is INTENDED to display or compare penis dimension. This is about poetry (which often does coincide with genitalia or even secondary sex characteristics from time to time, so my apologies if I tempt you into thinking about typically hidden fleshy bits). variations of the question based on variations of what "American" means: 1. first poem written in the Americas, geographically speaking (sounds like a challenge from a historical/archaeological perspective, and would also depend upon whether lyrics would be admitted): I am sure there are some very old Native American songs/chants; anyone? 2. first poem written in the Americas by a European: either doesn’t exist or is unknown but this is a lack of scholarship on my part 3. first poem written in the Americas in English: ? anyone? 4. first “important” poems written in the Americas in English: Anne Bradstreet, particularly in “The Tenth Muse Lately Sprung upon America,” her first book written in 1650. She was born in Northampton, England. It is interesting to note that Anne Hutchinson is said to be a poet, but I cannot find further evidence of that claim. If true, it was probably read, and she was very important, and she came before Anne Bradstreet. Which leads me to something revelatory about the origins of American poetry, if this be what you consider the beginning: Bradstreet and Hutchinson were both somewhat radical (Hutchinson very much so) and both allegedly had pretty scathing tongues. So perhaps they would largely be ignored on the POETICS list. In Broadstreet's "The Tenth Muse Lately Sprung upon America," she writes, "I am obnoxious to each carping tongue." She also made heavy use of sarcasm, as Michael noted in his post. 5. first poem written in America as a colony in English: ? 6. first poem written in America as a nation circa Declaration of Independence in English: ? 7. first poem written in America as a nation circa the Constitution (signed or drafted, your pick) in English: ? any of the above, but in Spanish instead of English: ? in French: ? in Choctaw: ? etc. 8. first “quintisentially” American poem: settled by arguments on what it is to be “truly American.” Based on Michael's reasoning (I am sure I am taking it loosely so bear with me), I would say Jupiter Hammon, 1760: “An Evening Thought. Salvation by Christ, with Penetential Cries.” http://www.lihistory.com/vault/423bvl.gif Hammon preceded Wheatley by at least 10 years. And then the problem of defining a poem: Do we include or exclude clever engravings on headstones? Worksongs? Sea shanties? Actually these are difficult questions for me, ones I do not have any answer for, except to say truisms like "lyrics are lyrics." Answering this question satisfactorily seems to take on the girth of a doctoral thesis quickly. >Mike wrote: >Okay, I'll bite. I don't understand "before Bradstreet" in English, >in >the U.S. - who would that be? A couple of sources on the internet say Bradstreet was America's first "important" poet, which implies to me there were other poets merely unimportant. Funny word, "important." I give that word little value; it strikes me as a word used in sophistry. Hutchinson, if she wrote verse, would be one such person to satisfy the pre-Bradstreet requirement. One thing I have learned through this query is that: any answer will have multiple answers and interpretations the roots of American poetry after the Mayflower take up their water from the soil of women and slaves, decidely the underdogs of their times (and our times, o how things get stuck in mud). And the "original" American poetry is steeped in the language of subservience & religious norms, especially rebellion against subservience & religious norms The sentiments of those encountering broken promises (the promise of equality and freedom, namely) in a new land. Also, the problem of discovering the original American poem is like trying to recover Courbet's original "Origin of Mankind" painting. The origin without an original. Material composed of origins about origins that are lost in history. Always origins, without an original, beginning (v) without a beginning (n). :p Patrick Herron ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:46:51 -0500 Reply-To: mcx@bellatlantic.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael corbin Subject: Re: polarizing the web... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Amato wrote: > and *not* b/c we > believe we writers/artists need all the help we can get (albeit many of us > DO think this---which is the upshot, i think, of introducing the typewriter > as artifact into the discussion, as jim rosenberg has done)... > > , a disturbingly corporate, if (as tom beckett indicates) incorporeal, > presence... post-pixel http://www.eink.com/ http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/stories/trends/0,7607,2377431,00.html mc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:21:23 -0500 Reply-To: mcx@bellatlantic.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael corbin Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Magee wrote: > According to Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers: > > > > dear List: > > > > Truly wanting to use the list to co-respond with others--I posted a > > question teh last week. "What do you consider to be the first American > > (of the U.S.) poem"? > > Okay, I'll bite. I don't understand "before Bradstreet" in English, in > the U.S. - who would that be? And in fact, if I have to pick someone, > some poem, in this way, I'd say Bradstreet's as good as anyone - > particularly "On My Dear Grandchild Simon Bradstreet," for its utterly > sarcastic tone regarding God's divine providence - a tone which prefigures > Dickinson's in poems like "I'm 'wife' -- I've finished that." All of the > truisms about God's wisdom and grace here are couched by "Let's," my > favorite being the extra-tentative "Let's say He's merciful as well as > just." Then straight I 'gin my heart to chide And did they wealth on earth abide? Raise up they thoughts above the sky That dunghill mists away may fly. "Upon the Burning of Our House, July 10 1666" I think "utterly sarcastic" is probably right. Though only as counterpoise to Increase and Cotton's sermonizing versifyings and Wigglesworths' dreadnought. But maybe that distance of intentionality is what makes for various FIRSTs. Roger Williams' transliterations of the Narragansett "A Key Into The Language of America" with this poesy rouseauisms on the Making of Americaans. Might stand as a first. > Everytime I read this I feel like responding, "Alright, what the > hell, let's say it." > Or the English translators of Diego de Landa or Las Casas in their mock-up versifying of Maya sing-song for Walter Raleigh or Johnny Smith. > > For something more explicitly U.S.-ish, how 'bout Phillis Wheatley's "To > His Excellency General Washington" which inaugurates the cooptation of > Amurika's revered terms ("The land of freedom's heaven-defended race") by > the marginalized. How did Creeley put it - "America, give us our country > back"? Somethin like that. "Once I redemption neither sought nor knew": Phillis on the mid-passage presentiment of the predicament of first pomes, Americus. Are they all the same afterward? mc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:15:37 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Business, class, access MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I disagree with the idea of class limiting my opportunities to be published. It has not. If writing is important, a way to survive will be figured, in my experience. The use of the bog or steelworker is not an exception by any stretch of the imagination. And that others have programmed you to believe any instance of a writer with a working class background getting published is a phenomenon, perhaps is more indicative of your vantage point or associations. For me it has been more of the rule and I can think of many other examples, including myself. Almost all of the peoples books I have published fit this category as well. If you want some kind of a useful discussion, as you claim for, it would behoove you not to be so irrelevant and snide in your comments. My belief is not that one needs to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" to remove poverty from the equation, as you have typified it. Rather, finding, to quote Will, "the imaginal power to leap beyond the brutally imposed confines to combat the bureaucracies with an elemental seismics, with a new and alien thinking" does not require a monetary amount beyond a lower class income, but a desire to have change as an primary element of what one does. Will does not name the "brutally imposed confines" in his writings and neither do I. A force to work against without the naming process supplies the energy without the denegrative state of reverse labeling. Upon saying who I am, in person, perhaps these ideologies of opposition become less opaque, but this is not a requirement to understanding. Desire and priority are the missing aspects-- as with many I've placed writing first, done a survival called the necessary, in whatever method has worked-- rather than point to my class upbringing or ethnicity as a justification. I find, as someone who has a lower class income, that your assessment is inaccurate. I felt your mass categorization of the lower classes was not one fitting to myself or many of the writers in the same situation I know closely. It is unfortunate that many believe they do not have access to the things you list below. This unfounded belief perpetuates itself in not having these opportunities become manifest. That classism exists, I agree. When it is used as an excuse, whether to defend one's choices, supposed lack thereof, or to support poorly written work, its utility is worthless. PS-- Thanks Robin. Be well David Baratier Again, this response brings with it a massive load of assumptions about *me* and where I have and haven't been. And you are simply kidding yourself if you think that class has nothing to do with access to time to write, educational opportunities, access to literary communities, access to the Internet, access to publications and being published, time to read, money to buy books, money to publish books, etc. Hurray for the steelworker who published a book. What does this prove? Is this the exception to the rule? And why is it that when folks speak up about class in poetry communities they are immediately accussed of being "victims" "whiners" etc.? Is this how you respond to racism? Or does racism exist, and classism doesn't? Get real. Kathy Lou ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:03:55 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Magee wrote: > > > Okay, I'll bite. I don't understand "before Bradstreet" in English, in > the U.S. - who would that be? > the marginalized. How did Creeley put it - "America, give us our country > back"? Somethin like that. > > -Mike. yes Mike: before the English got English. Something truly here of this awkward place. One response I got was the tree at Roanoke. That was a truly poetic gesture. I think Bradstreet true--but around the 1600s? yrs, Todd Baron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 02:05:25 -0800 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Hypertranscript is up of Defib on Talan Memmott MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The first canned version of the live Defib Web artist interview show is up at http://webartery.com/defib/canned/1talan/index.html. This is a hypertranscript version of the IRC chat session that Defib hosted concerning Talan Memmott's work. Defib's interview/conversation with Talan Memmott revolves around discussion of approaches to new media and also to narrative within new media. Talan's diverse foci synthesize notions of narrative within text and visual art toward a new type of narrative "the way painting offers narration as something that must be discovered and unfolded" but also as "theory/fiction". The hypertranscript, a fully produced hypertext, serves as an interesting introduction to Memmott's work. Producing the hypertranscript of the .txt transcript with Talan was itself an interesting collaboration. Live chat sessions result in non linear texts involving several speakers and the transcipt leaps about quite naturally. Many thanks to those who participated in this IRC conversation/interview. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 05:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Reading / Query In-Reply-To: <0FKW00KJ3ZP4Y9@cmcl2.nyu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those of you in New York: Reading: Elaine Equi and Susan Wheeler Saturday, November 13, 2:00 p.m. New York Public Library, Riverside Branch 127 Amsterdam Avenue, New York Free Also, can anyone recommend (b/c) essays on / collections of current New Zealand poetries and Welsh poetries? Susan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 07:29:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Robert Creeley Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 21ST AT 2:30 PM A Notable Poets and Writers Series reading by ROBERT CREELEY The Walt Whitman Cultural Arts Center Second and Cooper Streets Camden, New Jersey 08102 for more information: 856-964-8300 wwhitma@waltwhitmancenter.org SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 21ST 2:30 PM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:12:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lance Fung Gallery, 537 Bway NYC 10012" Subject: Morphology Of Change (November Show) Comments: To: pllynchnvl@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For Immediate Release Contact Lance Fung (212) 334 6242 J o h n R o l o f f Morphology of Change A new installation 11 Nov - 18 Dec at Lance Fung Gallery, 537 Broadway NYC Reception for the artist: Thursday, 11 November, 6 - 8 PM Morphology of Change, an exhibition of a new installation by the American artist John Roloff, opens Thursday, November 11th at Lance Fung Gallery. In Morphology Of Change Roloff once again achieves an experimentation and provocation on level with his past landscape projects, installations, sculptures and environmental art. His geology inspired furnace projects in the landscape of the late 70's through the early 90's (Saskatchewan, Canada, Hartford, CT, Arvada, CO...), experimental works with greenhouses and plant materials of the 80's and 90's (Smithsonian Institution, San Francisco, CA, Santa Barbara, CA...) and the large-scale photographic works shown in Dialogues with Nature at Lance Fung Gallery in 1998 form the background for this new work. As a conceptual extension of this earlier work, the installation done for Morphology of Change incorporates architecture, natural systems and formal considerations in an interior/exterior setting referring to such diverse attitudes as the 19th century sublime, process art, earth works, and baroque philosophy. In the essay, John Roloff's The Rising Sea, Robert C. Morgan wrote, "Like many artists of his generation, Roloff is not east to identify in terms of a particular medium. He has been called a sculptor and environmental artist, but he is much more than that. He functions on a conceptual level, meaning that he foregrounds the ideas he is seeking to clarify through his art. By foregrounding the ideas, the medium or media becomes secondary to the extent that he uses what is necessary in order to express the ideas." Further in the same essay Morgan states, "The larger point for John Roloff in these site-specific installations is that nature is bigger than our understanding of it. The order of nature is bigger than any order we can impose upon it, and that it is a resilient force." The focus of the exhibition will be a large singular work, Holocene, referring to the Holocene Era, the geologic period of our contemporary time. Holocene is a primarily transparent, wood-framed structure that extends the open portion of one of the gallery's street-facing windows into the center the exhibition space. Within the constructed chamber and connected only to the outside world is a field of living moss subjected to the environmental conditions present during the run of the exhibition; on dry days the moss will be a dormant grey color, on rainy days--to the extent that weather can reach within the structure--a vibrant green. As an extension of the physicality and process aspects of his earlier work, gallery viewers will be able to observe a section of the exterior environment penetrating deep into the gallery space and its effect on the moss's condition. Holocene investigates two resonate themes of Roloff's work, one that relates architecture and human activity in general to larger natural and geologic systems, the second, in a similar way to the earlier landscape furnaces and other environmental works, where a force (in this case organic vitality as condition of contemporary climate) is made visible in a confined environment and a dialog ensues between nature, the structure and its contents. Lance Fung Gallery is the New York dealer for John Roloff. He has work in such important art collections as: The National Museum of American Art, Washington, DC, San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, San Francisco, CA, De Young Memorial Museum, San Francisco, CA, Achenbach Foundation, San Francisco, CA, Oakland Museum, Oakland, CA, University Art Museum, University of California Berkeley, Berkeley, CA, Newport Harbor Museum, Newport Beach, CA, Museum of American Crafts, New York, NY, Crocker Art Museum, Sacramento, CA, Lannon Foundation, Palm Beach, FL, Cornell University, Ithica, NY, University of Arizona, Tuscon, AZ, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, University of Nevada, Reno, Reno, NV, Viart Corporation and (Numerous additional private collections) ---------------------------------------------------------------- To be removed from our lists please submit a blank email with a subject ['remove'], including quotes to lfg@thing.net. If we have contacted you in error, our appologies. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:55:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: Techno Immateria MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain brian lennon wrote; "For the most floridly morbid expressions of the idea that telecommunications media "dematerialize" the human body, see the pessimistic simulation theory of Jean Baudrillard, Paul Virilio, some of Fredric Jameson. There's lots of interesting, and not necessarily even *new* thinking, though, that challenges this: e.g., the socialist feminism of Donna Haraway. Haraway's work always reminds me that no matter how tempting it may be to say that I'm "dematerialized" in the act of speaking onto this List, my actual body is still sitting right here in the chair, typing--- it hasn't gone anywhere." just wanted to add here that the computer i'm working on seems to me like a material object and tho i'm far too out of it to explain to anyone how it is that the message i'm responding to fills my screen i have this perhaps odd conviction that it to isnt quite immaterial )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 15:54:56 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: The Internet and all that / Mills Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii At 1999-11-08 19:25:58, Poetics List wrote: # I had to reformat this message. Please keep in mind # that HTML formatting should not be sent to the list. HTML mail on an anti-www tip? Disgraceful :-) My bits are at the end # Chris # # -- # # From: "Mills, Billy" # Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:23:38 -0000 # # Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:07:43 +0000 # # > From: kathylou@ATT.NET # # > Subject: Some stats on Web usage # # > # # > Region / Internet Users (in millions) # # > United States, Canada 107.3 # # > Europe 46.4 # # > Asia/Pacific* 33.6 # # > Latin America 5.3 # # > Africa 1.7 # # > Middle East 0.9 I'd like to see the comparable literacy figures # # > *Includes Australia and New Zealand # # > # # > Source: Red Herring magazine, December 1999 # # So, the arguments are not melting before my eyes. # # I did not say that poets should not use PCs: the fact that I am e-mailing # # these messages would contradict such a proposition. # # I am saying that we should not lie to ourselves that the Web is more open # # than books are. # # Yes, access is easier: if you are a citizen of the 'developed' 'world'. # # Yes, books were exclusionist in their day, so that makes it OK to reproduce # # this in Webworld? While we're at it, we could reinstitute serfdom, witch # # hunts and child labour. How long has it taken books to get to this "non-exclusionary" position? How many centuries? For a young technology, the Web isn't doing half-bad. Yes, of course it's lower-thresholds maybe higher -currently- but the night is young...I may be the optimist here but, given the current -rate- of expansion, near world saturation might be acheived within 20 years. From zero to ubiquity within the space of a 100 years -if- it comes about will be no mean feat. You might not like it, but there you go. # I know a lot of poets find new and exciting potential in virtual creation, # # and that the Internet gives users access to a huge range of material. But # # look again at the figures posted by kathylou, and then let's be honest about # # the _social_ limitations of the medium. It is, in many ways, another way of # # enforcing centre/margin relationships, another hot topic on this list. # # Billy Indeed. Most things usually end up in a conspiracy and/or a binary theory :-) Roger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:14:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Weekend in New Orleans (part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } i made it to the reading and symposium sponsored by the new orleans review this weekend and it was a blast i hope to get a significant amount down in a post or two but am not trying for anything comprehensive or even focused on the 'event' so much as just a recounting as things strike my memory.... maybe i'll use headers like... MEETING POETS Bernadette Mayer was at the dinner friday the 5th at Camille Martin's house and the crowd included Bill Lavender, (the irrepressible) Nancy Dixon, Hank Lazer, Skip Fox, Randy Prunty, Andy di Michele, Myself, and folks whose last names i missed Phillip (travelling with Bernadette) John (lives there with Camille) ... there were more but Bernadette is way cool and i loved the last hour and half or perhaps two hours sitting and standing around in the dining room and listening as she'd make us all laugh then listen as some one of the crowd began to talk for awhile then she'd catch the edge of something in their talk and mention it as joke or paradox or observation and have us all laughing again and she told us a story that really hit me about someone who'd been Cage's nurse at the time of his death and who kept the EKG which showed the final beats of his heart, that this person had made something from it, a piece of art ---- Bernadette said she thought it was scary and i understood but i wondered if there wasn't a Cagean reading of it that wd make it something more interesting such that just as 4'33" illustrates for us that there is no silence, becoming a score for the unintended whatever that occurs... might his EKG also be a score (was it Joan Retallack who said that what Cage had left us primarily were scores ?) one that we don't intend but which we'll end up playing anyway...? (just a thought) but back to Bernadette, i'm left thinking of her the genius of good humor ---- tho i know that she explores all manner of moods in her work, my experience of talking to her was primarily of good humor ---- an example that springs to mind is when the Yasusada book _doubled flowering_ was mentioned --- she wasnt familiar with it and i gave her a quick run-down of the "bio" of AY and after the brief cataloging she said "seems like it cd've been a little more cheerful, doesnt it?" ---- another exempla wd be at the symposium where some of us talked blathered (that was me) and soliloquized and Bernadette spoke only once as i recall saying something like "my response is to laugh when things are funny" [AUDIO POESIS ADDENDUM TO BERNADETTE] ---- she had CDs for sale "Epigrams, Imitations and Translations" the price was $10, i dunno if that's all the time or conference price or what --- but you cd probably score one by writing to Utopia Productions at 206 Macedonia Road, Chatham NY 12037 SYMPOSIUM i tried to give a talk called "experimentalism, formalism and improvisation" that wasnt very successful ---- partially perhaps b/c i voided much of the bulk in order to get it within the time allotted (and still failed), tho ultimately the piece didnt work b/c these things i was trying to define or redefine, while important to me daily in my work as poet, arent perhaps things that anyone else was particularly engaged with and as a measure of how little the redefined "experimentalism" took with the crowd it went on being used in all the absurd ways that i was hoping to sheer off it for the rest of the symposium Randy Prunty gave a talk about his othersense poetry and then read an othersense piece with participation from several audience members (Bill, Hank, Skip, Andy, Camille) --- his was i think the most interesting of the talks as almost alone among them it presented a context of ideas about actual poetic work and then gave an example of this work ---- the participants also had a number of interesting responses to the effect that theyre participation had on them and their reception of the poem A. di Michele's talk was also pretty interesting and he came the closest to blurring one's ability to say this is poetry and this is talk about poetry ---- i've known Andy via the post for a long time and met him for the 1st time the night prior to this and i was really pretty blown away by the readings he gave during this talk at the reading that night and especially the next day at the maple leaf bar ---- in the symposium he said something about the state where one creates write poetry and about not about how to get there or ways to get there but about "waking up in it" --- i wish i cd recall exactly how he said this... there were more symposium talks that i should try to recount but now i gotta do WORK (jeez) .out )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:25:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Pritchett,Patrick @Silverplume" Subject: Re: Left Hand Reading for 11/17 @ 9:00 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > LEFT HAND READING SERIES PRESENTS: > > JOE AMATO > & > KASS FLEISHER > > Wednesday, November 17 at 9:00 pm. > Left Hand Books is located at 1825 Pearl Street, Boulder, between 18th & > 19th, above the Crystal Market. > > Free & Open to the public. A donation is requested. > > Open reading to precede featured readers. > > JOE AMATO is the author of a book of poetry, "Symptoms of a Finer Age," > and a critical-poetic work, "Bookend: Anatomies of a Virtual Self." His > poetry, prose and scholarship have appeared in Postmodern Culture, Denver > Quarterly, New American Writing and many other journals. He has recently > completed a new manuscript of poetry, "Lake Affect," and a memoir, "No > Outlet." He is Professor of Creative Writing at the University of > Colorado, Boulder. > > KASS FLEISHER has written two novels: "Edla, Small and Waving," and "Blue > Blazes to Dead Woman Hollow." She has completed a critical memoir about > the experiences of middle class women in academia, "Suffer Not A Woman." > Her essays and reviews have appeared in Z Magazine, American Book Review > and Postmodern Culture, among others, and her fiction has been awarded > annual prizes from The Dickinson Review and Plainswoman. She is adjunct > professor of English at the University of Colorado, Boulder. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:37:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: phonaesthetic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for the glut of postings, but I thought this might be of interest to someone. Full information on the LaBelle and Roden anthology I mentioned in my last response to this thread follows: _Site of Sound: Architecture and the Ear_. Edited by Brandon LaBelle and Steve Roden. Errant Bodies/Smart Art Press, paperback + CD. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:50:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tf@MORNINGRED.COM Subject: TF12 November 1999 (Quandaries) Comments: To: POETICS@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Transcendental Friend, no. 12, November 1999 - Quandaries http://www.morningred.com/friend/1999/11/cover.html Winter is coming. Build a fire. Make some smoke. Stand out in the November sun and contemplate the quandaries of life. Okay that didn't work: go back inside and read some poems by the warm and comforting light of a cathode ray tube. Early Rumanian ("punk," as Julian Semilina wrote me in a note) poems of Tristan Tzara (trans. by J. Semilian and Sanda Agalidi) in Idiosyncratica. Poems by Jo Ann Wasserman, Hoa Nguyen, and Nikolai Gumilev (trans. Katharine Gilbert) in Laird Hunt's Bestiary. Andrew Levy's review of William Fuller's byt, in Daniel Machlin's Review. Poems by Carmen Fioran (trans. Isaiah Sheffer, Andrei Codrescu, and J. Semilian & Sanda Agalidi), Zhai Yongming (trans. L. Schwartz & Zhang Er), and Osvaldo Sanchez (trans. Roberto Tejada), in Leonard Schwartz's Report. Garrett Kalleberg Garrett Kalleberg mailto:tf@morningred.com The Transcendental Friend can be found at: http://www.morningred.com/friend Immanent Audio Online at: http://www.morningred.com/immanentaudio ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:02:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) In-Reply-To: <000001bf2a45$f34bbbc0$17000001@doswlan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, Can somebody please explain to me what the political candidates in SF have to do with poetics in Boston, or anywhere for that matter? If I want to hear candidates be plugged by those who support them, I'll just shoot on up to New Hampshire for the primary. I've been quietly watching some of the threads coming through here regarding the advertising, political debate, and general mental masturbation that the list seems bogged down with lately, but this one really irked me. Where are the poetics in threads devoted to insult, ego-battles, and mayoral debates? Perhaps I'm missing something... Brent -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Taylor Brady Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 7:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) Ron, Thanks for sending this -- voting for Ammiano is the first time I've participated in electoral politics (outside of union elections) and felt good about it the day after. Being a recent arrival, and living in one of the city's more left-leaning neighborhoods, I don't have any very accurate way to judge how the runoff might go -- but based on bus-stop talks, running into people at tenants' meetings, pizza joints, et al, the support for Tom seems to be far deeper than the Chron/Ex "don't worry, Mr. Fisher, it's just a protest vote" line would seem to indicate. Of course, my live-in landlord -- who rakes in $1250 a month for the single room my wife and I share -- walked in on a conversation I was having with a friend touching on Ammiano's campaign, and delivered himself of a fairly histrionic litany of reasons not to vote for the "gay Mao." I wish I were exaggerating here, but to see how apparently acceptable as public discourse this sort of homophobic red-baiting has become (once again) since Ammiano's showing on election day, take a look at today's Chron editorial cartoon, which depicts a man and woman, presumably a hetero couple, looking at an Ammiano campaign poster: MAN: "How can I vote for him? He's a...you know..." WOMAN: "Yeah. Marxist." So we have something of a struggle on our hands, and the call for contributions is certainly apropos. As would be, perhaps, more letters to the editor like today's, which asks the pertinent question why Willie Brown's sexual profile hasn't been attached to his name as a de facto part of his job description. Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ron Silliman Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 5:44 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) Some retro carpet-bagging on my part here. Tom Ammiano has made the mayoral runoff in San Francisco against Willie Brown. Brown has long been a social liberal who has used that stance to front for the most rapacious developers who've driven SF into a place where rental units now run $1,000 per month per bedroom (a far cry from the $350 I and my roommates paid in total for our 7-bedroom house in "Baja Pacific Heights" in the 1976-78 period). Ammiano is a stand-up comic who first got active in politics by pushing to protect the rights of gay teachers in the mid-1970s. He's currently the president of the county board of supervisors and ran a write-in campaign that garnered 25 percent of all votes with just $20,000 (compared to Brown's 39 percent thanks to a budget of $2.3 million). Voters ejected ex-mayor/ex-police chief Frank Jordan and political consultant Clint Reilly from the run-offs, two relatively conservative politicians who got 29 percent of the vote. Those of us who remember the late Harvey Milk are enheartened by a demonstration that populist politics need not be the know-nothing libertarianism of, say, a Jesse Ventura. You don't need to live in San Francisco to benefit from Ammiano's election in the December election. And you can help! Call 415-503-1529 or e-mail ammiano4mayor@yahoo.com to volunteer and help make history. If you would like to make a contribution, send a check made payable to "Tom Ammiano For Mayor" to: Ammiano for Mayor 125 Upper Terrace San Francisco, CA 94117 (if donation is $100 or greater, specify your occupation & employer) FPPC ID # 990924 Ron Silliman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:23:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Business, class, access (fwd) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit BUK! Charles Bukowski. That's it. ---------- >From: kathylou@ATT.NET >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Business, class, access (fwd) >Date: Fri, Nov 5, 1999, 1:57 PM > >---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- >From: kathylou@att.net >To: baratier@megsinet.net >Subject: Re: Business, class, access >Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:55:29 +0000 > >Again, this response brings with it a massive load of >assumptions about *me* and where I have and haven't been. >And you are simply kidding yourself if you think that >class has nothing to do with access to time to write, >educational opportunities, access to literary communities, >access to the Internet, access to publications and being >published, time to read, money to buy books, money to >publish books, etc. >Hurray for the steelworker who published a book. What does >this prove? Is this the exception to the rule? >And why is it that when folks speak up about class in >poetry communities they are immediately accussed of being >"victims" "whiners" etc.? Is this how you respond to >racism? Or does racism exist, and classism doesn't? Get >real. >Kathy Lou >> David Baratier: >> There are many publishers outside & on this list who do not >> >use the perpetual victim stance or "have not" status you are >> attributing >> >to the lower classes >> >> KL: >> Question: How does bringing the power of analysis to bear on a >> situation, >> speaking out about it, and producing works in response to it constitute >> being a "victim"? >> >> Answer: >> >> Are you asserting that you are analyzing the situation? Throughout your >> posting you blame a social construct as a way to position yourself. The >> implication of-- "I get very tired of this because money does buy >> access: more time to write, money to publish one's own journals and >> books, which in turn increases both community as well as publishing >> opportunities for one's own work by increasing your 'profile' and >> 'reputation.'" ---is that your working class background does not allow >> you to go beyond the societal expectation inherent in class structure. >> >> "Publication being determined partly by who you know" The implication >> that one cannot "know" anyone without ludicrous jacksons hits me as >> another oppressive class myth. I know a guy who was a steelworker when >> tri-quarterly published his first book. I know a guy who works in a >> cranberry bog for numerous months each year, who is well published & one >> of the latter half of this centuries best poets. And so on-- >> >> "There's a lack of access to the Internet, where one can hobnob with >> publishers and magazine editors" Yet another victim statement. >> Interested folks can go to the library for free, as mentioned. >> >> While not all of these quotes are yours, Kathy, as you also say, "the >> quote from Bobbie implicates both Bobbie & myself, in a way laying >> things bare, and saying, yup this is how it works." My question is, in >> what way are you a reliable source for what occurs in the upper >> eschelons of poetry if you have never been there? I also add, as a >> person whose income is negligible, that I have not personally >> experienced the insinuated discrepancies described. >> >> Be well >> >> David Baratier > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:26:38 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: Business, class, access During this recent discussion on class I have been accused of being a "victim" of "making excuses" and of being "a spokesperson for persons who sort lettuce." That these are all personal attacks is significant, as well as tiresome. I teach about, write about, speak about, and research working class writing. In none of these instances have I made excuses, been a victim, or acted as a spokesperon for lettuce sorters. I'm sick of unfounded personal attacks that deflect from any actual arguments being presented. Many of these attacks are thinly-disguised veils for a dangerous political conservativism which blames people for their own struggles within the class system. If anyone cares to know what I have to say about class and what I have written about it, please feel free to read my essay on working class poetics from tripwire that is now online at HOW2, or read recent poetry in "Genealogy" from a+bend press. I have also contributed to publishing working-class writing in the journal I co-edit, Lipstick Eleven, as well as in the HOW2 Forum. I am posting these URLs for easy access to Listees as it is evident that futher postings to the list on this subject are useless and I've had enough. Essay http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/ current/alerts/schultz.html Forum http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/ current/forum/index.html Excerpt from Genealogy in Idiom (issue number five) http://www.idiomart.com/issues.html Kathy Lou Schultz > I disagree with the idea of class limiting my opportunities to be > published. It has not. If writing is important, a way to survive will be > figured, in my experience. The use of the bog or steelworker is not an > exception by any stretch of the imagination. And that others have > programmed you to believe any instance of a writer with a working class > background getting published is a phenomenon, perhaps is more indicative > of your vantage point or associations. For me it has been more of the > rule and I can think of many other examples, including myself. Almost > all of the peoples books I have published fit this category as well. If > you want some kind of a useful discussion, as you claim for, it would > behoove you not to be so irrelevant and snide in your comments. > > My belief is not that one needs to "pull themselves up by the > bootstraps" to remove poverty from the equation, as you have typified > it. Rather, finding, to quote Will, "the imaginal power to leap beyond > the brutally imposed confines to combat the bureaucracies with an > elemental seismics, with a new and alien thinking" does not require a > monetary amount beyond a lower class income, but a desire to have change > as an primary element of what one does. Will does not name the "brutally > imposed confines" in his writings and neither do I. A force to work > against without the naming process supplies the energy without the > denegrative state of reverse labeling. Upon saying who I am, in person, > perhaps these ideologies of opposition become less opaque, but this is > not a requirement to understanding. Desire and priority are the missing > aspects-- as with many I've placed writing first, done a survival called > the necessary, in whatever method has worked-- rather than point to my > class upbringing or ethnicity as a justification. > > I find, as someone who has a lower class income, that your assessment is > inaccurate. I felt your mass categorization of the lower classes was not > one fitting to myself or many of the writers in the same situation I > know closely. It is unfortunate that many believe they do not have > access to the things you list below. This unfounded belief perpetuates > itself in not having these opportunities become manifest. That classism > exists, I agree. When it is used as an excuse, whether to defend one's > choices, supposed lack thereof, or to support poorly written work, its > utility is worthless. > > PS-- Thanks Robin. > > Be well > > David Baratier > > Again, this response brings with it a massive load of > assumptions about *me* and where I have and haven't been. > And you are simply kidding yourself if you think that > class has nothing to do with access to time to write, > educational opportunities, access to literary communities, > access to the Internet, access to publications and being > published, time to read, money to buy books, money to > publish books, etc. > Hurray for the steelworker who published a book. What does > this prove? Is this the exception to the rule? > And why is it that when folks speak up about class in > poetry communities they are immediately accussed of being > "victims" "whiners" etc.? Is this how you respond to > racism? Or does racism exist, and classism doesn't? Get > real. > Kathy Lou ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:37:58 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Booglite issue two: Poetry as Cultural Critique MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Now available: Booglite issue two: Poetry as Cultural Critique, 1999 David Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Zine published in conjunction with Poetry as Cultural Critique symposium, University of Minnesota, November 5-6, 1999. Co-directors, Maria Damon and Mark Nowak. General run of 100 copies: 16 pages, + 4-page ivory cardstock cover wrap—with xerographic reproduction of full-cover linoleum block print by Daisy DeCapite. Saddle-stapled. $6ppd. Limited edition of 26 copies (15 available): 16 pages + 4-page rust cardstock cover wrap--with full-cover original black w/silver linoleum block print by DeCapite. Hand-sewn and lettered A to Z. Each zine has an ivory tip-in sheet signed by the authors--Tim Brennan, Damon, C. S. Giscombe, Roy Miki, Harryette Mullen, and Juliana Spahr--and cover artist. $12ppd. Checks payable to: Boog Literature 351 W.24th Street, Apt. 19E New York, NY 10011-1510 email: booglit@excite.com tel: (212) 206-8899 Features poetry and paper excerpts from: •Brennan, a professor at the University of Minnesota. He is the author of At Home in the World: Cosmopolitan Now (Harvard, 1997) and the forthcoming Music in Cuba (U. of Minnesota, 2000); •Damon, a poetry and poetics professor at the University of Minnesota. She is the author of The Dark End of the Street: Margins in American Vanguard Poetry (U. of Minnesota, 1993) and a member of the National Writers’ Union; •Giscombe, author of numerous books, including Giscome Road (Dalkey Archive, 1998) and Two Sections from Practical Geography (Diaeresis Press, 1999). He is an English professor at Pennsylvania State University; •Miki, a professor at Simon Fraser University. He is the former editor of West Coast Line (1990-99) and has edited The Collected Poems of Roy K. Kiyooka (Talonbooks, 1997). His most recent publication is a collection of essays, Broken Entries: Race Subjectivity Writing (Mercury Press, 1998); •Mullen, the author of four books of poetry, most recently Muse & Drudge (Singing Horse Press, 1995). Her first book, Tree Tall Woman (Energy Earth, 1981), will be out in a new edition by Bucknell University Press. She teaches English and African American Studies at UCLA; and •Spahr, a continental haole who teaches at the U of Hawai’i, Manoa. Her recent books are Response (Sun and Moon, 1996) and Spiderwasp or Literary Criticism (Spectacular Books, 1999). A book of creative writing, Fuck You-Aloha-I Love You (Wesleyan) and a critical book, Everybody’s Autonomy (Alabama University Press), both tentatively titled, are forthcoming. Booglite is published periodically by Boog Literature. Boog always reads work for Booglite or other consideration (send SASE with no more than five poems or pages of any type of art or writing). Boog Literature publications are edited and published by Kirschenbaum. Email or SASE for Boog catalog. As ever, David ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 15:56:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Weekend in New Orleans (part 2) Comments: cc: Lavender Man , skip fox , Camille Martin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } CAGEAN MOMENT night of the 6th, Bill Lavender had invited all the crowd at the readings to descend on his house for a party and many did come but Bill's partner Nancy had been at some kind of stuffy-semi-formal thing and she'd invited all these folks to blow off steam by coming to back home too so the crowd was curiously mixed ---- and the place was slammin' --- wall to wall everywhere and a bit much for me afer a time and so i ducked into the back beg room where Skip Fox was also hiding out and we sat there and listened to the gabble of voices raised in rooms on every side of us and out on the back porch too ---- it was an amazing sound ---- there was no music playing just lots of people talking and laughing and holding forth and while i've heard that sort of sound before this time it was somehow unique, perhaps the fact that i sat in a room shut off from that making it easier to resolve into a thing of occassional waves but mostly bursts and clashes ---- i ran out of the room to get randy after awhile but the initial push and volume was lessened by then as the party had thinned a bit or dispersed some and i also asked bill if he had a tape recorder but alas MEETING POETS and this darkened room where the voices gabbled then did turn towards discussion as Skip Fox and i started talking about this and that and one of the things that came up most clearly, i think, to both of us, is that having poetry is a great start on having common ground --- Skip and i are separated by some 20 years difference in age, very different taste in metaphors (when speaking of our work etc) and very different lives but were able in very little time to get to know each other and to get to serious talk about what it is we both care about ---- something i can only attribute to poetry as i've run into devotees of klezmer music previously and not had this happen, encountered others in bands when i was a band guy, run into lots of people with similar interests and fascinations etc etc and while i've often had a good time finding these things out and meeting these people it seems that in the poetry world i've found this much more to be the case THE READING Joel Dailey was pretty great at this event --- he had a way of weaving talk in between the poems such that both were elevated by the process, his reading style or skills or whatever were top notch as well Mike Sarki's reading was curious, he started by reading the foreward to his book (written by gordon lish, his teacher) wherein tis written "there are only two poets for me, Stevens and Sarki" ---- this line crops up in something of a tough-guy appreciation and struck me as really fucking strange ---- i mean, it's nice to have someone say nice things about you ---- that'swaht blurbs are for ---- but to then preface yr reading with them ? that's a bit wierd and Sarki seemed to have a firm feeling that he was a an outsider and didnt belong amongst all us academics (like me ? not.) ---- but when he actually read his poems i thought they were kinda interesting --- not really sure where all the oppositional chip on shoulder stuff came from tho Bernadette's reading was also pretty great and she brought Phillip Good out of the audience to do a dialogue poem in which Phillip played the part of "House" and she played herself ---- it was fun and funny and made us all laugh Camille Martin read some phonetic (homolinguistic) translations of Oppen and they had a sly slipperiness about them that i liked, tho, spoiled by our local practice, i'm always disappointed that i don't have the text in front of me --- which is something that wd have heightened my appreciation of many of the readers i'm sure everyone said i did fine and i guess i believe them but i had this odd sensation as i read --- 1st that i was off pace somehow 2nd that i might have been mispronouncing or blowing lines but that i wasnt sure as i was busy paying attention to the sense of pace --- about half way into my thing i felt like it started to click tho Bill Lavender read seemingly as an afterthought and i liked the piece and his reading, while it was maybe not the show stopper it had been in Tuscaloosa some months back THE STREETS of new orleans are nuts --- every intersection cracked and humped by the settling of the land -- the swamp repressed beneath it --- but it's a city that need no additional speed bumps in residential neighborhoods )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:21:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: Re: Business, class, access Comments: To: kathylou@worldnet.att.net, baratier@megsinet.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit after reading david baratier's recent post in response to kathy lou schultz's response to him (etc), i am left with this thought that is glaring in my head, hard to shut off, shove away. so i'll just go ahead and say it. even tho it's obvious... the experience of class is different for women and men, as women also have to contend with sexism, men do not. (and then, of course, there are many other isms that can show up too...) multiple -isms seem to have a geometric rather than simply additive effect. there ARE drawbacks, disadvantages, when one is outside of the privileged classes. access to many opportunities IS limited-- --and david, it's great for you that you haven't found it to be so, but by saying it's not true for others, it ignores/erases the efforts people make every day to "overcome," or simply live with, what they/i/we/you (am)are faced with. this doesn't mean that things can't be done, that opportunities don't exist, it means simply that there are more obstacles, and that desire to overcome or integrate, live with, these obstacles has to be very strong. (and sometimes the will is still not enough.) there are always those people who are able to do what they will anyway, despite disadvantages ...and those with advantages who fail repeatedly... --this does not change the facts: that advantages and disadvantages do exist; and, in our culture, money is usually the force that tips the scales. btw, i didn't see kathy lou using class as an excuse for anything...rather, as a framework for understanding. further btw, i don't think i agree with the idea of "A force to work against without the naming process supplies the energy without the denegrative state of reverse labeling." i like to know what i'm dealing with. naming helps to define, clarify. thinking about this more... jill stengel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 03:46:14 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: contact info request: Ronk/Vangelisti/Phillips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Lennon wrote: > > Are you out there, or anyone have contact info for: > > Martha Ronk > Paul Vangelisti > Dennis Phillips > > ---or anyone else affiliated with Littoral? > It's about a review of _Alphabets_. > Backchannel, thanks. > > Thanks > Brian Lennon write me I help found the press tho no longer work with them. Todd Baron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:11:12 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Business, class, access (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >From: kathylou@att.net >Subject: Re: Business, class, access >Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:55:29 +0000 > >Again, this response brings with it a massive load of >assumptions about *me* and where I have and haven't been. >And you are simply kidding yourself if you think that >class has nothing to do with access to time to write, >educational opportunities, access to literary communities, >access to the Internet, access to publications and being >published, time to read, money to buy books, money to >publish books, etc. i remembwer well i was doing a 12 hour nite shift driving a forklift in the 80's , and while i was at it wrote this little ditty: TOUR abroad on the paddle splashes into harbour tries luck and gains six overcoats with sunshine between the stars a parenthesis ladles the tune relaxing on a Li-Lo reading Li Po under some amended weather tumbling sunshine breathes a moment makes an X on a relief map of a cloud with wax in his ears his thought keeps always thought Penumbra was a month in a template climate zoned temporate where the toucan can rest his jaw postcard wednesday: toured a tourist bus found where callouses come from added a hurricane to tour (not in brochure) mended paddle pete spence if you can't have a tweak of fun while you are working then you might as well sleepwalk!!!! > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:20:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: Business, class, access In-Reply-To: <3827214D.B4C4022F@megsinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" david b, i think i find mself on the opposite side of the table from you, and sitting next to kathy lou, when it comes to this issue of class... and i think you know this (based on SO many of my posts to this list in the past, dealing specifically with this issue)... so i hesitate to try to persuade you of my way of looking at things, esp. b/c i regard my way of looking at things as opening to some relatively elemental and utterly urgent realities... but what the hell, it's twixt friends, or virtual friends, or acquaintances, or whatever... so i'll give it a whack, and i'll be deliberate... you speak of "classism" as something that "exists"... not an esp. strong claim, from where i sit... but my question would be, how does it exist? and why does it exist? and esp., in the context of what i would loosely call, a tad archaically, *the writing life*... of course there's all sortsa room here for idiosyncracies, but--- and of course i believe that most writers will ultimately, *should* ultimately find a way to write, but--- these allowances don't in themselves obviate a discussion of (e.g.) class-based struggle... say, as it relates to writing process and product, but also as it relates to our perceptions of what we are about as writers... if classism exists, then i take it class too exists, right?... i mean, there *are* economic classes, right?... and one's entrance into---or exclusion from---such classes is not entirely within one's (individual) control, yearn or aspire or endeavor or resist as one may-----right?... (i won't go into that class item most frequently discussed hereabouts---that of the shifty-ness of class markers)... ok: if i aspire, say, to $60K per annum (among other aspirations) i probably better figure on doing something besides just writing poetry, right?... (oh hey---i'm not ashamed to say i aspire to $60K/yr either, anymore than i am of aspiring to write poetry)... further, if i decide to write poetry, whatever my economic aspirations, this latter decision will impinge upon my life *somehow*, right?... given that money doesn't grow on trees, i might find---in all likelihood, i probably will find---that the demands relating to making ends meet do not coincide, neatly or productively (at least, not all of the time, perhaps not most of the time), with the demands of writing... right?... or to borrow from williams (_paterson_ book iii, part ii), albeit to my own class-specific ends: The writing is nothing, the being in a position to write (that's where they get you) is nine tenths of the difficulty; seduction or strong arm stuff. The writing should be a relief, relief from the conditions which as we advance become -- a fire, a destroying fire. For the writing is also an attack and means must be found to scotch it -- at the root if possible. So that to write, nine-tenths of the problem is to live. spoken by an m.d., yep... so, everything in my life (in *my* life, mind you david) tells me that "to live" is, in an important and (again) utterly urgent sense [the one having to do with earning a living such that doing same supports my writing---which in my view i deal with on a daily basis], an economic issue... hence (if i may) a class issue... none of this is absolute or inevitable, no, and surely some of this is a matter of emphasis (among other things)... but in some sense one might observe that *it may as well be* absolute and inevitable, david... b/c that's how the world is constructed, no?---or so it seems to yours truly... and if it seems so---to me, e.g.---sometimes and in some ways (at least) it probably *is* so, ain't it?... and that it seems so is, at least, itself a mark of the classism to which you refer, yes?... unless i'm hallucinating, i mean, and unless i've been hallucinating for lo these many years... always a possibility, sure... BUT i'm not sure, in all, why you would resist the class issue as a writing/publishing issue, in the very terms kathy lou has introduced... i don't think the "urgency" i point to suggests evangelical fervor, either, and for that matter, i didn't 'hear' same in kathy lou's posts... in all, the effect of yours and others' resistance on this count, it seems to me, is to move "us" away from a willingness to deal with class specifics (and associated complexities, incl. btw intimacies of various sorts, as well as this question of how the biz of poetry relates to the practice of same)... that is, resistance here, even outright skepticism, has the effect of helping to shut down what appears to me to be an entirely reasonable and entirely necessary exchange (and of course you're not alone in such resistance either---i mean, if i'm picking on you a bit here, and i am, i could as well have picked on stephen ellis, pleased to make your acquaintance stephen)... : we can, some few of us, just get on with it without your participation as such, i know... hence in no sense is your resistance to be understood as the "final word" or some such (anymore than is *this* post to be taken as a hostile intervention)... but as class is, like classism, difficult to discuss for many of us (though perhaps not for you), we're just as likely to say to ourselves, when greeted by such skepticism, *why bother?*... again, disagreement is one thing, but some of what passed before my eyes of late appeared to me either to be dismissive of kathy lou's concerns, or to be asking of kathy lou that she *defend* her assertions (stephen's opener "hits a particular nail square on the head, but doesn't drive it anywhere" a case of the latter, i think, and your "[t]his unfounded belief perpetuates itself in not having these opportunities become manifest" heading distinctively toward the former)... and if this post provokes a "why bother?" reaction in you, david (or stephen), my apologies---and i mean it... as in so many recent exchanges "around here," it just seems to me that the conversation has become unnecessarily contentious precisely when a bit less skepticism and a bit more goodwill might have produced some insights, and might have drawn (some of) us a bit closer together in the process, if only for a moment... i only wish i could have said all this with sense of humor intact... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 22:39:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: imanopagun lleraze why ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - imanopagun lleraze why e uranantu sald dffirous th mtyllfu odka rarf ani- mop lraleunag wzehyrantna u esau ldirs ouff d mthty oclrtfulldi, rtawac ecl, oth heee bd,blr eaenth hgianhe t mngan isos it, la bckdieaf e wchw- aebth,e d olrbte hhaen natee iahgningiss mt,keoc c s hee'tan simwa jt us- ngyiovabe clinaw, usatg ool, es hur'rwee eawld dasbna 'cis ewm hatei snav- estbo aygs,ju ut ilawng c oaruhee,l'swro aess s e sh iheyssa aihaae s deh- sds e dark panorama in gully where azure and alan stuff dirty mouths full of ardk ra imanopagun lleraze why e uranantu sald dffirous th mtyllfu ort- cl, dirt, claw each other, bleed, beneath the hanging man, it is so black we dif eawacheblr oth d,ee bthhe teaenan hgianit, mngs isocke can't see him swaying just above us, clawing at our holes, we're as dead wla bn'cat hiswm e seinayg avebostjus, u cngt awilar ouho wree's,les as he is, she says ades ihe aadshs e ar dk ra __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 23:22:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Toni Simon and Nick Piombino Subject: phoneaesthetic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Kevin Hehir, Although the two books I am recommending have been mentioned before on this list, perhaps you missed them. Both may be of interest to you on this topic: "Close Listening: Poetry and the Performed Word" edited by Charles Bernstein (Oxford University Press, 1998), which includes, "Letter on Sound" by Susan Stewart, my own "Aural Ellipsis and the Nature of Listening in Contemporary Poetry", "Voice in Extremis" by Steve McCaffery, "Sound Reading" by Peter Quartermain, among many others. "Sound States,Innovative Poetics and Acoustical Technologies," edited by Adalaide Morris, (University of North Carolina Press, 1997), which includes "Voices out of Bodies, Bodies out of Voices:Audiotape and the Production of Subjectivity" by N. Katherine Hayles, "The Music of Verbal Space" by Marjorie Perloff, "Poetry's Voice-Over" by Jed Rasula, among others. Both books contain bibliographies which may be of interest, Sound States comes with a CD. Best wishes, Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 08:40:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Katie Degentesh Subject: NEW EMAIL ADDRESS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" NEVER AGAIN kdegent@itsa.ucsf.edu FROM NOW ON degentesh@earthlink.net Please take note. Thanks. Katie Degentesh. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:47:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: readings in Los Angeles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Andrew Joron and Spencer Selby will read next Thursday, Nov. 18 at: Hilton 300 A & B Loyola Marymount University 7900 Loyola Blvd. L.A. 8:00 P.M. for info. call me at (310) 338-3078 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:58:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Cunningham Subject: Re: phonaesthetic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Taylor Brady wrote: >Work by Reuven Tsur and Garrett Stewart might be of interest here -- >neither, though, without their problems (especially Tsur, who almost seems >to insist on a kind of transcultural, transhistoric "legibility" of the >onomatopoetic qualities of vowel sounds. But worth looking at as one example >of how the universalist hopes of a certain strain of Moscow/Prague >linguistics [one recalls Jakobson's commitment to Khlebnikov and the project >of zaum] can be leaned on and pushed into a more recuperative mode by more >recent practitioners). While I agree with the thrust of Taylor's point here, I'd also add my hope that no one will forgo reading Khlebnikov due to his more-difficult-to-recuperate views of phonemic universalism. K.'s ideas about language remain, as I'm sure Taylor will grant, extremely compelling and suggestive for reasons outside the fact that they proved utter failures in the linguistic laboratory (more accurately, that they had no hope of being seriously admitted in the first place). Like with his visionary & universalized sense of time (derived from his near-mystic belief in eccentric numerologies), it seems important to place Khlebnikov's understanding of sound in a historical context, and to recuperate it in that way--not as a part of a mathematical or linguistic telos, but by seeing it as a lived artistic engagement. K.'s belief was that he had invented or discovered a phonemic universalism in zaum that was specifically not described by Symbolist theory, nor by literature derived from Eastern Orthodox religiosity. In other words, his was a universalism markedly different from the going artistic universals of 1910-1917 Russia, and much of its energy derives from K.'s sense that a new worldview was needed in the face of a multitude of crumbling universals. No one that I'm aware of was proposing relativities. None of this helps with hard research into phonaethetics-as-science since Khlebnikov was primarily a poet. Which is really part of my point here. Although K. did problematize the "poet" category rather diligently and dramatically, I still think that the metaphorical/metonymic qualities of his thought really are, and should be, privileged over its verifiable/predictive qualities. It's true that Khlebnikov saw mathematically-describable (hence "universal") patterns everywhere, including in phonemes, but the stress is always on the idea that "there are patterns" and not on the specific types of patterns Khlebnikov saw (such as his belief that there are universal spatial qualities to particular phonemes). As in the Paul Schmidt translations, K. saw himself as an "inventor/explorer" (which he opposes to "investor/exploiter") rather than someone with the kind of methodological & academic commitment of a Jakobson--though, again, Khlebnikov makes it difficult to slice the two worlds into components. In short, then, my sense is that we might be able to productively distinguish here between types of universalisms--linguistic, mathematic, artistic-metaphoric, sociological, biological (all containing their own subdivisions and their own histories, no doubt). This might also keep us from a too-easy conflation of Jakobson's argument in favor of universal linguistic patterns with, say, the Cartesian transcendent ego, or with Roussau's understanding of speech . . . (approx. Derrida's position in OF GRAMMATOLOGY--and here's hoping Derrida isn't on this list since I've now officially gone beyond my knowledge & abilities). Brent Cunningham ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:15:55 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Lester Bowie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The great Lester Bowie has died. NEW YORK (AP) -- Lester Bowie, a jazz trumpeter who was a founding member of the long-running Art Ensemble of Chicago, died Monday from complications from liver cancer. He was 58. The group has played the United States and Europe for 30 years. Bowie, who also played the fluegelhorn, was known as a flamboyant performer with a sense of humor and an appreciation for the theatrical side of performing. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:20:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: FW: Lester Left Town MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to pass along such sad news -- Bowie was, most famously, trumpeter for the Art Ensemble of Chicago, as well as many fine bands of his own, including the Brass Fantasy. Along with fellow Chicagoans Sun Ra and Anthony Braxton (and of course the rest of the Art Ensemble), and in a very different way perhaps Cecil Taylor, he was for me a primary energy source for bringing into being a deep and broad way of thinking, hearing and seeing the African-American creative music tradition as a model poetics for performance of all kinds: beginning in sound, outward through theater, into modes of social action, often as far as planetary history and cosmology. Check out live recordings of the Art Ensemble like _Bap-Tizum_, or the more recent studio collaboration with Cecil Taylor , _Dreaming of the Masters_, on and around Monk compositions, for a sense of how simultaneously various and focused, how both "out on the edge" and thoroughly humane his music could be. I never met him except to shake his hand after a concert, but I'll miss him nonetheless. Taylor -----Original Message----- From: ba-newmus@eartha.mills.edu [mailto:ba-newmus@eartha.mills.edu] On Behalf Of katgra@earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 6:03 PM To: cartograffiti@mindspring.com Subject: Lester Left Town With great sadness I share the news that Lester Bowie died last night. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 15:24:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Fwd: INFO: trumpeter lester bowie dies -- tribute in harlem arts journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >From: KALAMU@aol.com >Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:39:02 EST >Subject: INFO: trumpeter lester bowie dies -- tribute in harlem arts journal >To: KALAMU@aol.com >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 > >Dear Kalamu, > I thought cyberdrummers would want to know about the death from liver >cancer of this monumental artist. Lester was aware that he had a short time >to live, but continued touring Europe with his group Brass Fantasy. A few >weeks ago, he became seriously ill in London and was hospitalized. Upon his >return to New York, his health deteriorated rapidly. The tour will be >continued after memorials are completed with his brother trombonist Joseph >Bowie as leader. There are several jazz websites which discuss Lester's >magnificent career. I advise everyone to use the keyword "jazz" in their >search. > For those interested, the fall 1999 issue of the Harlem Arts Journal >features interviews with Lester, Olu Dara and Russell Gunn, in an article >entitled, ironically enough, "Surviving the Trumpet." For those interested, >a subscription page is attached to this e-mail. In the article, Lester >discusses his origins, influences and the cultural stasis he perceived occurs >when record companies usurp too much control vis a vis the evolution of black >music. It is a wonderful piece, and I am so blessed that we had a chance to >talk. > Best wishes in your continued efforts on this wonderful site! > > Ruth-Miriam Garnett > Publisher, Harlem Arts Journal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:00:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Re: earliest american poem In-Reply-To: <38276F66.C5FF56C7@idt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I loved Dan Zimmerman's poem excerpted below. I've also got a grant application out to do something with the whole "Croatoan" thing this summer...very interested in the story of the Lost Colonists as an excellent way to explore ephemera, the nature of disapperance, fragment, contradiction, myth, through poetry...so I was very excited to see it mentioned on this list as a possible "earliest American poem." I'd love to know if other people have done stuff with Roanoke Isl., or just have thoughts about it... Arielle On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Daniel Zimmerman wrote: > How about the Lenni-Lenape _Walum Olum_? > > Or the one-word message carved in a tree by the lost > Roanoke colony: "Croatoan"? ["a cartoon"/"at corona"?] > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:13:52 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: SVP News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1 - SVP WEBSITE URL The Sub Voicive Poetry website URL has been changed by the server space provider. It is now http://matrix.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry/ 2 - SVP WEBSITE UPDATING Unfortunately, it is still not possible to access the server to update the website; there is nothing incorrect there yet, but it's all slightly out of date. 3 - FOURTH SUB VOICIVE COLLOQUIUM The Fourth Sub Voicive Colloquium will be held in London on 20th May 2000 between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. Please make a note in your diaries: I hope that many of you will attend. It is more than likely that there will be related readings just before or after the colloquium, especially to take advantage of the presence in London of poets from some distance away Further announcements will be made when the colloquium committee has discussed the proposals received so far. An updated webpage will be prepared and, hopefully, will be publishable at the EPC conference page at least, if not at the SVP website ----------------------------------------------- SVP: http://matrix.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry/ Lawrence Upton: http://members.spree.com/sip/lizard/index.htm RWC: http://members.tripod.com/~ReadandWrite/contents.html Writers Forum: http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ ----------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 07:49:11 -0800 Reply-To: robintm@tf.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Tremblay-McGaw Organization: The Bell Campaign Subject: class again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But David, I'm also 100% in agreement with Bob Gluck's "Every poetics is a poetics of class." What we're trying to do here is bring some awareness to the issue, "in thinking about a poetics of class that knows itself" (Bob Gluck again). I'm also 100% in agreement with what Kathy Lou has said about the multiple ways in which class influences everything about writing and its availability in the public sphere. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:12:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm very sorry to have posted from the perspective of a writer whose poetry and thinking about poetics are rooted in a world, many of the events of which are not primarily -- or not at all -- concerned with "providing metaphors for your poetry," like so many insubstantial spirits swirling obediently round the Yeatses. I promise henceforth to keep that thought and those roots in the world, and only make note of them in this space when it's a matter of their scansion. Onanistically yours, Taylor -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Brent Long Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 11:03 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) List, Can somebody please explain to me what the political candidates in SF have to do with poetics in Boston, or anywhere for that matter? If I want to hear candidates be plugged by those who support them, I'll just shoot on up to New Hampshire for the primary. I've been quietly watching some of the threads coming through here regarding the advertising, political debate, and general mental masturbation that the list seems bogged down with lately, but this one really irked me. Where are the poetics in threads devoted to insult, ego-battles, and mayoral debates? Perhaps I'm missing something... Brent ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:44:05 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Diane Ward contact MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, I can't seem to find an email for Diane Ward (the Diane Ward in L.A.) Does anybody out there have it? Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:18:10 -0500 Reply-To: i_wellman@dwc.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: D Wellman Subject: Re: Business, class, access MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... lets take a constructivist approach to the matter of class for a minute; call class a system of economic representations, and consider jeans as a a representation of some sort of relation to the working class. often i have read my poems in public in jeans instead of wool or tweed. most males on the list have probably done that. The point is that wearing jeans represents some sort of desire to cross or erase class lines unless your background is lower class; in which case you might choose finer threads and cross the line the other way, overcompensate. That is something poor people might do who want to make a good showing. Understate that is something that not so poor people might do. Understatement is decidely cool and modern; overcompensating is naive. I find it peronally intolerable that some people wish to rub my naivity in my face. I learned that lesson often growing up. I felt condemned because I could not transcend who I am ((forgive the lurch into auto-ethnography ("auto-ethnography" is an over compensation for "life story"). On the plus-side I learned about resentment and really got into Nietzche. I am not sure that jeans wearing poets of upper-middle class background have a feel for what I mean what I speak of "resentment" in its class-based form as opposed to Derridean 'resentement.' --- so we could argue that posing, by whatever means for whatever reason is part of the human condition. I would think poetry or poetics could acknowledge that somehow ... Don Wellman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:48:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/10/99 2:41:57 PM, brent_long@COMPUTERTOWN.COM writes: << Can somebody please explain to me what the political candidates in SF hav= e to do with poetics in Boston, or anywhere for that matter? >> Both candidates support "living wage" contracts (as different from "minimum"= )=20 for corporations et al doing business with the City of San Francisco. This=20 mutual commitment will undoubtedly draw national media attention. Which will= =20 undoubtedly impact discussion of this issue =96 or make it an issue - in=20 Boston.=20 The question of what is "living" or not is vital to life in the City. Vital=20 to its poets. Its poetics. Vital to the fact of the poem.=20 No economy. Minimum poems. Healthy polis. Healthy argument. Healthy poets. =20 Cheers,=20 Stephen Vincent Citizen, San Francisco ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:39:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Lester Bowie In-Reply-To: <19991110161555.75953.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The great Lester Bowie has died. I hated it when I saw that name in the title. I knew what it wd mean. Lester Bowie one of my great heroes of the sixties when a lot of the people I knew were listening to Jimi Hendrix. I only got to hear him live twice, once in Montreal and Once in Vancouver. But I used to use his records to scare the neighbours. He was a sign to me back then, that you can have fun and the avant garde at the same time, in great doses. We should all be playing our AEC records at 9.5 this week. George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:46:56 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Fw: Exhibition: Threads of Humanity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Forwarded without the long long list of other persons to whom this was sent: -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Andreallo Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999 09:18 Subject: Exhibition: Threads of Humanity I am writing to invite you to contribute a work to the exhibition “Threads of Humanity” that is being organised in collaboration with Amnesty International and the University of Wollongong. The exhibition will focus on the concept of human rights and will be run for the purpose of promoting the inherent dignity of the person, which is embodied in the recognition of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human society. The exhibition will be displayed at the Wollongong City Gallery from March to April 2000 and close with an auction dinner. It seems pertinent that human rights issues remain at the forefront of discussion and social consciousness. The exhibition has been contemplated for some time however spurred into action in response to the atrocities that have occurred and continue to occur in East Timor and not long before in Kosovo that outraged the Australian community and communities further afield. It is then hoped that the exhibition will not only emphasise the common thread of our human existence but also illuminate the importance and relevance of human rights to our every day situation, which we will carry with us into the new millennium. The closing date for applications is the 10th of January 2000. Application forms and information about the specific theme of the exhibition are available from the web page listed below: http://www.uow.edu.au/crearts/events/amnesty.html I would also like to ask that you forward this information onto other artists that you think may be interested in contribute a work. Your support and assistance will be greatly appreciated. I look forward to your application. Regards, Daniel Andreallo, Curatorial Director, Amnesty International & University of Wollongong Collaborative Project. 39 Buderim Avenue Kareela 2232 Phone/Fax: 9 528 6158 Email: djacqua@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:27:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: s k y w o m e n MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII =- s k y w o m e n i s i t a n y c o i n c i d e n c e t h a t a d a m , a d a m a i n h e b r e w ; t h a t h o m o , h u m u s i n f r e n c h , t h a t a l m o s t i d e n t i c a l k a n j i i n j a p a n e s e , r e f e r e n c e m a n a n d e a r t h , t o t h a t e x t e n t w e ' r e m a d e f r o m d i r t , d i r t c o m e s i n t o o u r m o u t h s a n d c o m e s i n t o o u r m o u t h s . i s a y t o y o u : i t i s n o t s u c h a c o i n c i d e n c e , t h e r e i s t o o m u c h m e a n i n g , t o o m u c h i n v o l v e d . i w a n t t h e r e l a t i o n s h i p g l o s s a n d g l a s s , t h e d e r r i d e a n r e l a t i o n e x t e n d i n g t o s i l i c o n s a n d m u l t i p l e c o n n e c t i v i t i e s . i n s t e a d o f m o u t h s : h a n d s , a n d i n s t e a d o f m e n , t h o s e e n t i t i e s o f a n y g e n d e r w h o s e g l o s s c r o s s e s t e x t i n t o g l a s s . f o r t h e m e n o f a l l a r e d e a d w i t h e a r t h , a n d a n d r o g y n e s a r e p e r f e c t b e a u t i e s d e e p w i t h i n t h e w o r l d . ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:16:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: Business, class, access In-Reply-To: <0.d0e3a1f3.2559f85e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 5:21 PM -0500 11/9/99, Jill Stengel wrote: >after reading david baratier's recent post in response to kathy lou schultz's >response to him (etc), > >i am left with this thought that is glaring in my head, hard to shut off, >shove away. so i'll just go ahead and say it. even tho it's obvious... > >the experience of class is different for women and men, as women also have to >contend with sexism, men do not. > I've been keeping out of this class discussion, but I think saying that implying that women have it worse than men on the class-prejudice scale is an unnecessary essentialism--and it is contrary to my experience. As much as I bitch and moan about class prejudice, I've always felt that working class guys had a harder time assimilating into the middle class poetry world I've known. I've seen a couple nearly destroyed by it. Find it interesting, for instance, when Michael Amnasan talks of his lack of social power as a construction worker in a middle class writing world as a feminization. Class has come up repeatedly in one of my undergraduate classes since one woman has been writing about "whiteness." And, of course, I suggested that she needed to refine what is whiteness and what is upper-middleclassness (the world she was raised in which she is writing about). As a child she had a hispanic housekeeper/nanny who fed her tacos--but beyond that, I asked what would be different about that power dynamic if the housekeeper was white (my mother worked as a janitor, so a white housekeeper wasn't a big leap of imagination for me), what specifically did the racial variable contribute. The one chicana in the (all female) class wrote a piece which touched on being a minority student in a predominately white school. She only once mentioned being chicana and others' reactions to that. The rest of the piece was humorous stuff about studying and being tired all the time and boys and bad dorm food, etc.--and many references to not having enough money to do things, not having various forms of access. I complimented her on the political subtext of the piece. And the girl who is writing about whiteness said, "What political stuff is in here, except this one reference (directly about being chicana)." Race could be seen, but class issues were invisible. This resonates for me with a lot of what goes on on this list and elsewhere. Dodie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:59:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: FW: Lester Left Town MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lester bop lester blow lester skronk lester crow lester come lester go ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:27:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: sawtooth wave decline [alan'swords] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wzehyrantna imanopagun lraleunag hur'rwee aebth,e rtawac stuff ool, the of imanopagun lraleunag dffirous mtyllfu bd,blr azure ouff mop is lraleunag bckdieaf beneath bd,blr usatg ani- it, in bckdieaf lleraze holes, where full him ra hee'tan other, ldirs sald oth is lleraze ilawng dirt, d,ee us, ut mouths snav- aess the th azure odka oth we odka and ut why dk sh iahgningiss eawacheblr ngyiovabe uranantu lleraze isocke estbo man, oth at imanopagun lraleunag hgianit, clinaw, bn'cat hhaen 'cis him as ngyiovabe hur'rwee clinaw, other, simwa sald is, jt hur'rwee lleraze awilar dirt, rarf him in mtyllfu bd,blr estbo dead us, as aygs,ju dasbna hiswm ouho ihe we olrbte ldirs claw cl, as dirty just mop it rarf us, ra mop dk th avebostjus, imanopagun lraleunag uranantu mtyllfu aadshs wchw- ani- dif so eawacheblr lraleunag bckdieaf iheyssa other, can't ani- wla es lraleunag bckdieaf hee'tan ilawng usatg deh- is, sh hur'rwee mtyllfu bleed, snav- ool, is, la hgianhe dasbna ldirs cngt why jt hgianhe isocke hhaen sald the of isocke ldirs full she as stuff heee sds ra dark cl, of the sh he --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- finally got my page up at the EPC, some of the links have to be repaired but its a good start. mIEKAL aND http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/and/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:14:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Business, class, access In-Reply-To: <19991109192549.HYTL26289@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Having no ambition myself to rise so high into ">>>the upper eschelons" of anything as to be unable to resist crapping on people a la Mr. Baratier, I, David Larsen, volunteer myself to serve as this list's spokesperson for lettuce-sorters --and, if need be, to pass your *civil* responses back to them. Believe me, though, they do not take kindly to being used as tropes. Thank you for your attention LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:57:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Walsh Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Dear Brent, Have you read any of Ron Silliman's poetry? If you have, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why he thinks we have a stake in politics. best Michael Walsh ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:37:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: rebecca wolff Subject: Fence #4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fence #4 Volume II, no. 2 Fall/Winter '99-'00 POEMS by John Ashbery, Gillian Conoley, Ange Mlinko, Reginald Shepherd, Timothy Liu, Diane Wald, Marcin Swietlicki, Linh Dinh, Matthew Lippman, Kevin Young, Amy Gerstler, Martine Bellen, Suzanne Wise, Michael Burkard, Deborah Tall, Standard Schaefer, Harryette Mullen, Kevin Killian, Jean Donnelly, Devin Johnston, Beth Murray, Sam Witt, Stacy Doris, Duane Esposito, Tessa Rumsey A special section of GHOST STORIES by Laura Mullen, Clark Coolidge, Peter Straub, Cole Swensen, and Kenward Elmslie FICTION by Aimee Bender, Robert Coover, Christopher Sorrentino and featuring episodes from "Dreams of a Rarebit Fiend," by turn-of-the-other-century cartoonic genius Winsor McCay Now available at your local independent bookstore or your big chain bookstore too Or order directly from our website: www.fencemag.com Please contact me with any questions ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:23:09 +0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Weldon Sithiwong Subject: Virtual democracy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you Murat. I agree that this debate is ridiculous and, basically, meaningless. I can't remember when I first subscribed, but, I still remain the only subscriber in Thailand. In fact, I have passed the list information to several Thai poets who are connected and litterate in English, but, the list doesn't appeal to them. I do, sometimes, wonder why it appeals to me. I cannot attend the poetry events announced here. My participation is currently limited to reading the list; I haven't posted to the list for a long time. Experience has made me reticent. I have not read and will not read many of the works under discussion here. I do not know even one member of the list. I am unknown; I do not publish. I am not affiliated with an educational institution or any group known to any member of this list. So, why do I subscribe? Because of this: I struggle in order to retain my right to write. I hoard my physical and psychic resources so that I may have a room in which to write and words to put on the paper in front of me in that room. My income is $800 per month. With that amount of money I raise my three children, tend my garden, enjoy my friends and maintain an internet account. I am not poor. I am rich because I make my circumstances work for me, because, despite everything, I keep my mind alive and am able to write. I like being in the company of other writers. I like the depth of observation, the petty squabbles, the vanity, the beauty and the basic truth of what we are. That, for me, is poetry. And that is why I am here at Poetics. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 05:53:41 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Brent Long's question Comments: cc: brent_long@COMPUTERTOWN.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Brent Long asks a good question: Can somebody please explain to me what the political candidates in SF have to do with poetics in Boston, or anywhere for that matter? The answer Brent is, first, that the politics of SF has a direct bearing on the ability of poets, especially younger ones with fewer economic resources, to live and work there. The cost of renting a room in SF today is 20X what it was when I moved there in 1972 and the quality of housing you get for that is much much worse. In order to stay there, one has to work a serious gig -- none of this "take a year" and hang out sort of stuff that enabled me to write Tjanting or to edit In the American Tree. The economics of the Bay Area have had a lot to do with the diaspora of poets from that community over the past two decades. A lot of people on this list can attest to that. The health of the Bay Area poetry scene matters to us all. The Bay Area has long had a direct poetic connection to Boston. Weiners' Hotel Wentley Poems were written at what are now the Polk/Sutter Apartments in SF. 707 Scott Street is another SF address. SF poets have been going to, and gaining from, the Boston scene since at least the 1950s. The final answer is that when a good progressive gets into office, it offers hope and possibility for us all. Tom Ammiano will be the most progressive mayor in the nation if he gets elected. That doesn't mean that I will agree with everything he does, but like Paul Wellstone's senatorship in Minnesota, I will benefit directly here in Paoli, PA. And I wish that Harvey Gantt had beaten Jesse Helms as well. Yesterday's SF Chronicle noted that Ammiano will benefit from the fact that in California the homeless can vote. Ron ---------- Call 415-503-1529 or e-mail ammiano4mayor@yahoo.com to volunteer and help make history. If you would like to make a contribution, send a check made payable to "Tom Ammiano For Mayor" to: Ammiano for Mayor 125 Upper Terrace San Francisco, CA 94117 (if donation is $100 or greater, specify your occupation & employer) FPPC ID # 990924 Ron Silliman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:31:17 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Maria L. Zavialov" Organization: IREX/IATP Subject: class, gender etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Discussing class it's good to remember WHERE this discussion is taking place. Place, I mean a geographic spot or location, is another aspect (like gender) that should be introduced into the discussion. I mean location in terms of its economic situation. Thus the inhabitants of the US can all be said to belong to the upper class if viewed from a poor Asian country. One should try hard to stay hungry in the US, isn't one? The same goes for different locations within one and the same country. Like in Russia a native of Moscow coming to St. Petersburg is automatically moving one step up on the social ladder. And when he comes to a small provincial town he is already two steps up. And in a village... oh, in a village he (yes, he) is a guru. Masha Z. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:09:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Re: Lester Left Town MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } [in madison wisconsin winter] i was driving it was dark i was on that street by the black bear (now closed) and looking to find parking a few blocks up but the lights were red and a bit of slow traffic and the snow falling and thick on the ground from days before and foggy windows etc etc and this horn came on the radio i dunno what station maybe public radio maybe WORT and it was all over me and i lost my hurry and it was exceedingly vocalized and talkative in it's blows and nothing around it just his horn and someone honked as i'd forgot the green light and i rode on slowly listening and found a parking space easy and sat there wondering who it wd be and the song ended and one heard the live audience cheering and the announcer said Lester Bowie and i wanted to play a horn with a hat or a plunger abnd walked past a music store and cold stood and looked in the window )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:11:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: great expectations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "ok: if i aspire, say, to $60K per annum (among other aspirations) i probably better figure on doing something besides just writing poetry, right?... (oh hey---i'm not ashamed to say i aspire to $60K/yr either, anymore than i am of aspiring to write poetry)..." *********** Indeed, Joe, i think it does a nice job of locating us poet types in the overall culture, that 60,000 does as an abreviated expressions for, "a lot of money." Dip into the NY Times, say, any publication whose viewpoint is essentially that of the business class, and one soon finds that they consider 60 a pretty measley income.... One of the many things that makes reading the Times such a peculiar, disorienting experience... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:26:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: geometric rather than MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ...simply additive effect. { p o e t i x } jill stengel writes; "it's great for you that you haven't found it > to be so, but by saying it's not true for others, it ignores/erases the efforts > people make every day to "overcome," or simply live with, what they/i/we/you > (am)are faced with (...) desire to overcome or integrate, live with, these obstacles > has to be very strong. (and sometimes the will is still not enough.)" and i like that someone leapt in with further reasonableness But i'm nowhere myself, thinking about class... always getting bogged down in some fog where when i start reaching out trying to get a grip on class as it relates to me i end-up w/ many particulars that seem less part of any demarcated unit and more points some almost arbitrary and others determined on an unfixed number of continua someone told me something and i heard it as follows "definitions are like machetes theyre useful when you have to hack thru a tangled space" but like jill i think that it's better to know what i'm dealing with (to try to obviously) and "naming helps to define, clarify." and maybe that's why class gives me trouble but joe amato is eloquent on the subject and reasonable as well "a bit less skepticism and a bit more goodwill might have produced some insights, and might have drawn (some of) us a bit closer together in the process, if only for a moment..." which leads back to What is This List For and i can hear my boss talking in the hall time to nip this... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:58:39 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: Re: Ammiano for Mayor (SF) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear brent, dear list, as the list discusses political issues, and as politics certainly involves us all (think NEA, for example) a write-in candidate's stunning achievement certainly is a "poetic" topic. this write-in candidacy, done with little money and in a short amount of time, has shown that it doesn't take millions of dollars to garner popular public opinion, that it doesn't take major-party affiliation to have public support, and that change CAN exist, even in the pretty stale political system we have in the u.s. from here, at the end of the 20th century, it appears to many that nothing ever changes in the world of politics. well, here is something unusual, someone who truly beat the odds and shook things up. even if ammiano doesn't win the mayoral run-off election on dec 14, he has stirred up politics in a most amazing way. if you are still wondering what this means to poetics, think civil liberties. think power of an individual to make change. think momentum. think. american politics just got a kick in the ass-- how can it not be relevant to all? jill stengel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:25:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Weekend in New Orleans (part 3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } READING joy lahey read and i was struck by the careful way she spoke and the craft of her work ---- this impression now overlaying my brief looks at the chapbook of hers that randy brought back ---- and i saw her at the maple leaf bar for the sunday martin/di michele event and reached into my pocket to snag one of the cards i printed up to take along (the vast majority of which i ended up hiding in bill lavender's house to amuse myself sunday slight hungover morning) and ..nothing.. all my careful planning, a card with my name and mag info and email and all that (the perfect networking tool) and i'd packed them the one time when i finally wanted one for something --- in her chapbook she uses a spelling "misisipi" skip fox read and it was good and had a sinuous punch to it ---- then he got caught on "permeability" i think it was and tried it 3 or so times and said "well i just won't say that one" and went on and it never even felt like an interruption really and i reading his chapbook _wallet_ i like the way that the pieces unwind, primarily in sentences within a prose block frame ---- i have questions about the locus of it all but that was the fun of talking to skip in the noisy dark room during the party (see previous) randy prunty read but when bill announced him he chose that moment to respond to randy's othersense experiment in the symposium that afternoon, his assignment was to monitor his pulse and watch for interaction between it and the poem - i forget what he said but randy read great --- once i thought he was thirsty ---- three poems and the middle one quite the tongue twister too but he was cool calm etc during alex rawls read long curly hair deep voice man read something called "1969 OK" and i got it but i don't know how many others did and he read from his desk calendar (blotter style) where he's working out a poem a day using horoscope books and other materials ---- if i remember correctly he read us some selections from november ---- i liked him talking later on the back porch at bill's must keep an eye out for his work tho as i don't think i've seen any on paper LOCAL COLOR lunch at liuzza's (lee ooz za's, if i remember correctly) and the wait staff (seemingly mostly relatives) had what we were told is a very new orleans accent which sounded kinda brooklyn but with an occasional lilt to curl at the end of words that distinguished it ----- beer in frosted fishbowl type mugs oozing beer ice all over the table ---- great onion rings and randy ordered (i thought about it) the fried pickles which were pickle chips battered and deep fried which we then devoured in ketchup mixed with pepper sauce ---- my eggplant poboy left something to be desired but vegetarians learn to survive on fries while travelling and onions rings are a vegetable same as ketchup i saw a surprising number of young children dancing on sidewalks etc i'm told that there are wild parrots well settled in new orleans and looked for them but never saw any BERNADETTE had been riding around with camille i think it was and they were going someplace in new orleans and the address struck bernadette as ideal "where the elysian fields meet the mississippi river" her laughing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:32:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: next week at the Poetry Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Upcoming Monday, November 15 at 8 pm Catherine Wagner & Roberto Tejada Born in Rangoon, Burma, Catherine Wagner just published a new chapbook, _Fraction Anthems_, with 811 Press. Excerpt: "P his foot/O my blue snub/E knee weekend/thumbnail/hand M/foot 'I work' )Lamp/-10:30 Sat morn-/'it's sugar day" Roberto Tejada is the editor of _Mandorla: New Writings from the Americas_ and the author of _Gift + Verdict_, just published by Leroy Books. His poems appear in this month's issue of Poets & Poems, on the Poetry Project web site at http://www.poetryproject.com/tejada.html. Wednesday, November 17 at 8 pm An evening of words & music with poet-performer-musicians Rebecca Moore & R.B. Morris Rebecca Moore has worked for the last 20 years in the realms of experimental performance and dance through songwriting, singing, acting, directing and writing. Her next CD is due out this winter from the Knitting Factory. Hailing from Nashville, Tennessee, R.B. Morris just released his newest CD, Zeke and the Wheel, from Koch Records. This will be his first performance at the Poetry Project. No Friday Night Events until December 3rd, when LYDIA LUNCH & NICOLE BLACKMAN will read. More on this special event soon! ***** The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church at the corner of 2nd Ave. & 10th St. in Manhattan. The Project is wheelchair-accessible with assistance. Please call in advance: (212) 674-0910. Admission is $7; $4 for students & seniors No advance tickets. Program is subject to change. ***** If you would like to be removed from this e-mail list, respond to this e-mail with the subject line: "please remove me." ***** Roberto Tejada, from FLATLANDS: "...shall we gather at a grandeur hushed by degradation and pointlessness at odds with each other in the desolate stretches of this smoldering kingdom devoid of redemption? Well, except for the low poorly-drained strip of land along the Gulf, the place rolling and fertile, the delta a broad flat region planted in soybeans and cotton from Woodall mountain to the Gulf of Mexico, the point being where exactly in 1541 near Sunflower Landing HernandodeSotosawtheGreatRiver" ***** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:52:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Organization: e.g. Subject: Re: B+C+A & littoral MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What happened to the Littoral info on the LA Books site? Todd, do you know? Also, I was reminded -- by the forklift poem -- to ask the list: anyone know of note-type poems, poem notes, etc. that someone's made ("taken"?) on the job and published? I'm curious, and take notes, usually transcribing them eventually, tried the dictaphone, which is really an odd 1) name for something, 2) led me to have tiny little tapes everywhere that I won't transcribe since it reminds me too much of that period I digested dispositions & did medical transcription. These notes -- it can be interesting -- of course they are naturally fragmentary, but also on transcribing, I tend to glom initially unrelated notes together into a poem, with larger "leaps" than usual. Also, I am constantly paying attention to whether something that "occurs to me" belongs to a "poem" or something else. I write down essay ideas, business ideas, to do's, etc., as many have done work on including in poems. I don't put these in the poems but they do "occur" to me in the same way. Regards, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:52:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Weekend in New Orleans (part 4) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } i fubbed a couple of names earlier, bernadette's traveling companion is phillip good --- somebody punned him with "feel good" said he should have been a doctor ---- and camille's partner is john clark(e) who is a philosopher (environmental ethics etc) who also wrote the surregionalist manifesto (i may be blowing the title he handed a copy to di michele and i didnt look at it) which is something of a platform for the magazine mesechabe ---- and i'd like a look at the manifesto as i don't really have much sense of what this surregionalism stuff is about save the hints registered in the poets (say andy di michele) of.. well.. you know... surrealism and regionalism i came away from there thinking that the locals seem much more conscious of the distinctions of local accents and idioms --- several times i heard of how some who live near the street Clio cal it "C.L. 10" presumably from the streetsign --- and this is a series of streets named for the muses ---- and i noted that bill would say a name one way and then a minute or two later say it differently (this was especially striking when he introduced bernadette as 1st he said what i was say as "mayor" then when he exited the stage for her he said it as i wd say "mire" (but with a dipthonginess in the middle) dennis formento's reading and several others made use of local accents whether by intent or as "carrier waves" and i noted that for a number of folks there in n.o. that the reading of poem was accentuated by a more enegetic verbal preformance as opposed to say... i dunno, something specific to the poem on the page, sound qualities of the words chosen perhaps i caught a number of religious notes in the course of the readings as well which surprised me initially --- a poem titled "prayer" i believe and ref to "god" in several poems read i'm trying to imagine a continuum of connectedness to disjunctiveness --- trying to plot out a few folks on that and see what it suggests... but it's rather difficult, idiosyncratic and based here on guesses in memories of a busy day, nonetheless, it felt to me that the new orleans local crowd tended more toward connectedness which is not to say that if you scratch at one of bill's or camille's poem you won't find it splicy but at the least that theyre respective reading styles don't foreground that aspect and instead seem to pull thing forward in a flow ---- joel dailey's stuff was disjunctive between sentance units (at least i think that's what i was hearing) but the sentences themselves seems pretty well connnecte, explicit etc ---- there were other locals who's readings struck me as remarkably connected (joy lahey perhaps)... REMEMBER PLEASE there is no value assignment here, just an observation ...on the more disjunctive end there were more out-of-towners andy di michele, randy prunty and myself i think ---- this undoubtedly due in large part to what we chose to read there's a lot of stuff i've only skimmed in these reports buti thnk i'll lay off now unless i'm reminded of something particularly interesting (thanx to all who've sent me positive messages about these posts --- i'd be curious about what's happening around you...)ohn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:21:12 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Owen Hill Subject: Ammiano for Mayor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List I'd like to thank Ron for his little report on the SF mayoral campaign. I know it wasn't about poetics, but politics are discussed here all the time. This race should be of interest to everyone. C'mon! An openly gay "Marxist" has the chance to be mayor of a large city. Important stuff! This election could send a gust of fresh, clean Bay Area air across the country. It may even be felt in stuffy old Boston. All Best Owen in Berkeley, Ca. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 20:17:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII / / |_|_| Trikon Trisula SVATANTAMRTA-BIJA-SYA SVATANTAMRTA-BIJA-SYAMU SVATAN- TAMRTA-BIJA-SYAMUM TAMRTA-BIJA-SISMULA TAMRTA-BIJA-SISMULASVA-TANTAMRTA- BIJA-SYAMUM TAMRTA-BIJA-SISMULA JMULMU BICVISARGAIYAMANDMU PAMRTA-BIJA- SICVISARGAIYAMAMTAMRTA-BIJA-SISMULAAMRTA-BIJA-SDICVISARGAI-YAMASVATANTA- MRTA-BIJA-SYAL JENNICVISARGAIYAMAFEAMRTA-BIJA-S VICVISARGAI-YAMASSVATANTA- MRTA-BIJA-SYAAMRTA-BIJA-SGSVATANTAMRTA-BIJA-SYA EMICVISARG-AIYAMASSTAMRTA- BIJA-SISMULAN |_|_| Trikon Trisula A AU AUM O OAUM O JULU BINDU PRIMORDIAL JENNIFER VISARGA EMISSON | | | |__|__| JAJAAAJAJAJAAAJAAAJAAAJAJAJAAAJAJAJAAAJAAAJAAAJAJAJAAAJAAAJAAAJAJAJAAAJAAA |_| ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:20:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Nettleton Subject: Love a good mystery? Comments: To: Eckerd College Review , People Who Might Be Interested in ECR Contest -- Alan Cockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, Alan Davis , AlanCockrell <73761.1143@compuserve.com>, Allen David Barry , Amitava Kumar , AndiMatherne , Andrew Smiley , angie davidson , Anne Barrows , AnnJennings , april greer , Becky Hepinstall , Bev Marshall , beverly vidrine , Bill Lavender , "Blanche A. Bell" , Boyd Girouard , BrendaCary , Brian Andrew Laird , Brian O'Donnell , CathyBishop , Cedelas Hall , charles bernstein , Charles Hunt , Chere' Coen , Cheryl Torsney , christine watt , Chuck Thompson , ClaraConnell , Clayton Delery , contemporary poetry list , Cynthia Harper <5SatLib-SanAntonio@ca5.uscourts.gov>, "D.J. Shaw" , Darrell Curtis , David Duggar , David Holcomb , "David J. LeMaster" , David Kuhne , dayne allan sherman , Deborah L Siegel , deborah novak , Deborah Phelps , Dedria Givens , Delane Tew , Delores Merrill , Diane M Farrington , Dodie R Meeks , dominique ryon , DONALD JACOBSON , Donya Dickerson , doris meriwether , DWooleylll@aol.com, "Edelma D. Huntley" , Eliza Miller , "Emily W. McAllister" , eric mcneil , geetha ramanathan , George Elliott Clarke , Geri Taran , Glynnauth , Hank Lazer , "harry d. stewart" , "J. Paulette Forshey" , jack bedell , janet bowdan , Janet McCann , jberry@dps.state.1a.us, jda8531@usl.edu, "Jeanine B. Cook" , jeff dear , Jeff Goldstein , Jeff Lodge , JGray46412@aol.com, Jim white , Joel Kuszai , john august wood , "John P. Doucet" , Joy Graham , "Joyce S. Brown" , Judith Meriwether , Julie Hebert , Karen Ford , Karleen Wooley , Kathy Gruver , Kathy Ptacek , kevin johnson , Kevin Murphy , Kevin Murphy , Larry Anderson , laura taylor , Libby Nehrbass , lila walker , Linda M Schopper , Louis Gallo , louisiana , Luis Urrea , LVSadler , LWilson213 , lynne castille , M Butz , MANNY SELVIN , MarcellaDurand , marcia gaudet , Marie Plasse , MARSHA BRYANT , Mary Alice Cook , Mary Hillier Sewell , Mary Kay McAllister , mary tutwiler , MaryCappello , MaryCotton , Maura Gage , Megan Farrell , Michael and Charisse Floyd , Michael Mandel , miki nilan , molly-cole , murray schwartz , Nancy Richard , Norman German , Paige DeShong , Pamela Kirk Prentice , Pat McFerren , Patrice Melnick , Patricia Burchfield , Patty Ryan , paul maltby , ralph stephens , Randy Prunty , Rhonda Blanchard , rita hiller , rlehan , Robert Brophy , Robin and Charles Weber , Robin Kemp , Robley Hood , Rogan Stearns , Rosalind Foley , Ruth Rakestraw , s , Sam Broussard , Sandy Labry , Sara Wallace , "Sean H. O'Leary" , Sean McFadden , Shawn Moyer , Stacey Bowden , Staci Bleecker , Stanley Blair , Stephen Doiron , Steve Barancik , Steve Wilson , Suzanne Mark , TABORWARRN , "Tammy D. Harvey" , Tana Bradley , Tatiana Stoumen , Tim Smith , Timothy Naterer , Walt McDonald , Wendell Mayo , William Sylvester , Zach Smith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try this one: http://members.aol.com/justicewrtr/justice4all/main.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:25:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: POETICS: approval required (E653424A) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --On Friday, November 12, 1999, 1:45 AM -0500 "L-Soft list server = at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" wrote: This message was originally submitted by cindyf@BESTWEB.NET to the POETICS list at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire = automatically and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please = refer to the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short for your = convenience in processing large numbers of messages. ----------------- Original message (ID=3DE653424A) (128 lines) ------------------ Received: (qmail 5126 invoked from network); 12 Nov 1999 06:45:49 -0000 Received: from miro.bestweb.net (209.94.100.200) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 12 Nov 1999 06:45:49 -0000 Received: from bestweb.net (dialin-179.nyc.bestweb.net [216.179.5.179]) by miro.bestweb.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA25616; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:45:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <382BB736.C1754C21@bestweb.net> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:44:06 -0500 From: George Fouhy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nico Suave , "Othercinsf@aol.com" , "Paul-Victor L. Winters" , PAULETTE , "PeterSpiro@aol.com" , Poetics List , "radio@ncpr.org" , "rmannion@infohouse.com" , Robert Scrivens , "Salious1@aol.com" , Sally Ann Hard , "SSAPhD@aol.com" , "STACISWEDE@aol.com" , "strickla@mail.slc.edu" Subject: Billy Collins Reading Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D"------------5A25FD99336CFD7D68D84227" --------------5A25FD99336CFD7D68D84227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Northern Westchester Center for the Arts 272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 10549 914 241 6922 nwcaonline.org CREATIVE ARTS CAF=C9 POETRY SERIES Presents Award Winning Poet Billy Collins To read or HEAR Billy's poetry check out: http://www.bigsnap.com/poems.html Monday, Nov. 15th at 7:30 PM Billy Collins, the award winning poet, has been a favorite among Westchester residents for years. Highly respected by his literary peers, his readings are well attended by students, teachers and fellow poets who enjoy his artful poetic wit, intelligence and insight. Following the reading there will be a reception and a book signing. After the reception, an OPEN MIKE FOR POETS in the audience will follow until 9:45 PM. Suggested donation is $7.00. Billy Collins is the author of six books of poetry including Picnic, Lightning (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1998), The Art of Drowning, (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1995) , The Apple That Astonished Paris, (University of Arkansas Press, 1988), and Questions about Angels (William Morrow & Co., 1991), which was selected by Edward Hirsch for the National Poetry Series. The recipient of numerous awards and fellowships, he has been featured in The Pushcart Prize Anthology and The Best American Poetry for 1992, 1993 and 1997. He was chosen by the New York public Library to serve as =93Literary Lion.=94 He is a = professor at Lehman College and a visiting writer at Sarah Lawrence. He lives in Northern Westchester County, NY. This series is supported, in part, by the New York State Council on the Arts, the Bydale Foundation and Private Funds. The reading is located at the Creative Arts Cafe Poetry Series at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts at 272 N. Bedford Road Mt. Kisc, NY 10549. Easily reached by railroad or by car. Call for directions: 914 241 6922 ext 17. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:41:54 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Comments: To: brit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Writers Forum announces 2 more in the DAN series FREE GIFT 0 86162 907 8 klinker 0 86162 906 x Both published yesterday and performed at Klinker last night - Cobbing and Upton voice, J Pike movement and projector abuse See website for details of getting stuff L ----------------------------------------------- SVP: http://matrix.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry/ Lawrence Upton: http://members.spree.com/sip/lizard/index.htm RWC: http://members.tripod.com/~ReadandWrite/contents.html Writers Forum: http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ SVP / WF website update impossible at present ----------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:20:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: Business, class, access In-Reply-To: <19991109192549.HYTL26289@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:26 PM 11/9/99 +0000, you wrote: >During this recent discussion on class I have been accused >of being a "victim" of "making excuses" and of being "a >spokesperson for persons who sort lettuce." That these are >all personal attacks is significant, as well as tiresome. It would seem that Kathy was being insufficiently a victim -- and thus becomes a target of victimization -- This _does_ have something to do with poetics -- "victim" L _victima_; akin to OHG _wih_ holy, Skt _vinakti_ he sets apart The rhetoric of setting apart -- a good description for the responses to the issues Kathy raises ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:22:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Vanderborg Subject: MLA panel on "The Performed Text" Comments: cc: ma1@nevada.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A MLA convention panel on "The Performed Text: Toward a Post-Poetics = for the New Millennium" that might be of interest to some of your = subscribers has been listed incorrectly in the MLA convention program. The correct date and time for session 455 should be: Tuesday, December 28th, 8:30-9:45, the Burnham room in the Hyatt Regency = hotel. (Right now it is listed incorrectly at that same time but on Wed. = 29th) The session features Michael Davidson's discussion of the gestural = performances of Aaron Williamson and other deaf poets, Ming-Qian Ma's = study of visual and acoustic topography in Christian Bok's Crystallography,= and Susan Vanderborg's discussion of Cells of Release by visual artist = Fiona Templeton. There will be a signing interpreter at the panel.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:06:54 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: Diane Ward contact MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RaeA100900@AOL.COM wrote: > > Dear All, > > I can't seem to find an email for Diane Ward (the Diane Ward in L.A.) Does > anybody out there have it? > > Rae Armantrout rae : she doesn't co-respond on the inter-net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:00:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: Re: class, gender etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Like in Russia a native of Moscow coming to St. Petersburg is automatically moving >one step up on the social ladder. Really? Would you kindly explain that? I'm under the impression it's the other way around. >And in a village... oh, in a village he (yes, he) is a guru. Not necessarily 'he.' Cheers, Philip Nikolayev ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:24:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Double Happiness, NYC 11/13 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991110185251.009c8390@socrates.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Segue @ Double Happiness Saturdays from 4:00 to 6:00 pm. Double Happiness is located at 173 Mott street, just south of broome. A 4$ contribution goes to the readers. November 13: Martin Corless-Smith, Kevin Larimer Martin Corless-Smith is from Worcestershire, England. His first book Of Piscator was published by University of Georgia Press. His second, The Garden a Theophany. Or ECCOHOME: A Dialectical Lyric was published by Spectacular Books. A chapbook based on a translation of Lucretius' De Rerum Natura recently came out from 811 Books. Kevin Larimer's work has appeared in Explosive Magazine, The Iowa Review, and Skanky Possum. He lives in New York City. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:50:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: MLA panel on "The Performed Text" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i'm writing a book called "poetics for a post-literary america," and i've used the phrase "post-literary poetics" and "post -literary poetry" in my writing. can i initiate a discussion by asking what *you* mean by "post-poetics"? it's intriguing. At 5:22 PM -0500 11/11/99, Susan Vanderborg wrote: > A MLA convention panel on "The Performed Text: Toward a Post-Poetics >for the New Millennium" that might be of interest to some of your >subscribers has been listed incorrectly in the MLA convention program. > > The correct date and time for session 455 should be: > >Tuesday, December 28th, 8:30-9:45, the Burnham room in the Hyatt Regency >hotel. > > > (Right now it is listed incorrectly at that same time but on Wed. 29th) > > The session features Michael Davidson's discussion of the gestural >performances of Aaron Williamson and other deaf poets, Ming-Qian Ma's >study of visual and acoustic topography in Christian Bok's >Crystallography, and Susan Vanderborg's discussion of Cells of Release by >visual artist Fiona Templeton. > > There will be a signing interpreter at the panel. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:04:32 -0500 Reply-To: douglang@bellatlantic.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Doug Lang Organization: douglang Subject: Re: Diane Ward contact MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dianeward@yahoo.com RaeA100900@AOL.COM wrote: > Dear All, > > I can't seem to find an email for Diane Ward (the Diane Ward in L.A.) Does > anybody out there have it? > > Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:17:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Smithson and Poetry (reading) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was requested that I forward the following message to the list. Chris -- From: Emilie Clark Date: 11/12/99 5:54 AM -0500 Reading: Heap of Language: Robert Smithson and Poetry 3 poets: Tan Lin Pamela Lu Lytle Shaw 3 critics: Gary Shapiro Richard Sieburth Eugenie Tsai The Whitney Museum of American Art at Philip Morris (120 Park Ave at 42nd Street) Thursday, November 18 8pm (free) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:58:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: "Sensation": The Exhibit (reduced 1000X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit btw, this poem was rejected by a major NY editor; according to this editor fellow, he would be a hypocrite if he published it given his reputation for supporting freedom of expression, i.e., the NY exhibit in question. ----------------------------------------------------- "Sensation": The Exhibit (reduced 1000X) Inconclusive provocations bio-lit the dull chute tent of Emin's sex life, 1963-1995, chummed death from formaldehyde, loud zygotics of ponder and bloating species in the cachet churn of Saatchi. Out-split pigs, there, lunch boxes of giftshopped face carnage assemblaged. Do we mature by killing, stuffing, or by creating offense? Ofili's Ave Turd Maria smeared before Leibovitz. Now the frozen blood bust of Quinn merged and Bowie was not de-sublimated, sniffing a proboscis of fiberglass penis for $9.75 Beyond the zoo oeuvre--parroted plop, elephantine turd, monkey nipple-- an artist laid down his shovel and as that shovel lay hardening with a warm fecal crust, he faced stupefaction, and he doubted his own conundrum. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:24:53 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Business, class, access Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The rhetoric of setting apart also involves that sense of "sacrifice" meaning "to make sacred" - "sacred - to set apart in honor of". "To set apart" also implies "devotion to." (Isolation?) Devotion to what, tho, in this case? What's the object? Victimization in this (& maybe, how shall we say it, "all?") case(s) has to do with hierarchy, and so is a poetic problem, a religious problem, an identification of position problem, an identification of species problem, a money problem, a social problem & on. If "setting apart" implies a sacralization, and sacralization, a division (of labor, of sex, of knowledge), then the best we can hope for is that conservatorship which sets itself apart by setting apart those they are able to, from each other. Teleology has its finger on EVERYBODY'S button, it being in fact a shredding technique on the way to gathering "the world" up into a square box with three compartments, the guts, the heart and the head corresponding to the beast, forest and stone that gets worked into the achieved flock, garden and city, these last all the result of the glancing blow that destroys the whole in a metonym of parts that nevertheless point back to all varieties of some "golden age." Victimization in part rises in response to a sentimental urge to "remember" - or even attempt to recover - some just sense of "animal moving freely through animal" (animation!). Yet there's a hole in the side of the bucket that bleeds off the reservoir that might otherwise produce the material analogy through which to accelerate beyond and more fully into exactly what we're currently in - the WHOLE world which by definition (naming) we can not have in any form that is also not the wound in consciousness that is consciousness itself, a protection racket, and what we're ALL victimized by. Ie., the blood from the hole in the side of the bucket remains the Roman sewer that runs straight up the defining thermodynamic "clock" of Wall Street, where libido is factored into (a) priveledge, toward which one must nevertheless "be on time." Like, to your own sacrifice. However one approaches these appointments, it's never the simple matter of going to them, but far more one of being either and or both frozen by, and overwhelmed by, their exaction. - S E >From: "Nielsen, Aldon" >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Business, class, access >Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:20:14 -0800 > >At 07:26 PM 11/9/99 +0000, you wrote: > >During this recent discussion on class I have been accused > >of being a "victim" of "making excuses" and of being "a > >spokesperson for persons who sort lettuce." That these are > >all personal attacks is significant, as well as tiresome. > >It would seem that Kathy was being insufficiently a victim -- and thus >becomes a target of victimization -- > >This _does_ have something to do with poetics -- > >"victim" L _victima_; akin to OHG _wih_ holy, Skt _vinakti_ he sets apart > >The rhetoric of setting apart -- a good description for the responses to >the issues Kathy raises ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:03:43 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Cities & the outlands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Like in Russia a native of Moscow coming to St. Petersburg is automatically moving one step up on the social ladder." "Really? Would you kindly explain that? I'm under the impression it's the other way around." My impression has been that the Moscow/Petersburg relationship was not unlike the SF-LA (or SF-NY, or Boston-NY, Dallas-Houston, etc etc etc) one as well. People from city X say that their city is a big step up from those of city Y, those from City Y just reverse the equation. Then there are those who live outside one of the major metropolitan areas, who have a whole other series of relations to deal with. I've been much pleased here to see the evidence of active scenes in Atlanta, New Orleans and other US cities not always thought of "from the outside" as having large poetry scenes. It adds a lot to the list and to discussions generally. Those of us in the Philly area ran around last night to hear first Kit Robinson at Writers House and then Mei-Mei Bersenbrugge & Deborah Richards at Temple's Old City Gallery. Today we're giddy with all that language (3 very different writers) echoing around in our heads. Ron Silliman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Watten DuPlessis Writers House webcast Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PhillyTalks at the Kelly Writers House with Barrett Watten & Rachel Blau DuPlessis Monday November 15 beginning at 6 PM eastern time will be webcast live. The first 35 people who respond to this invitation will be able to "connect" to the webcast signal--and then see and hear the program (and to pose questions or comments during the discussion). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- relevant links (for further information): PhillyTalks, founded & curated at the Writers House by Louis Cabri: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/phillytalks/ the Kelly Writers House: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/index.html fall 1999 schedule of live webcasts, including recordings of a conversation with Marjore Perloff & Bob Perelman on Stein, a reading by Shawn Walker, and a symposium on Williams's "To Elsie": http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ the Writers House calendar: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/calendar/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:11:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: for + i love your feelings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII / / for sn less ww si tr ertsahmnid ertsahmnid < ww > zz sd pico zz ae sed 's/rr/++/g' zz > ww ar pico ww at rm ww as pico zz aa h ah h >> zz s HIROSHIMA for Those who Insist on the Letter of the Text rrrranmi dG for Those who Tremble before its Embrochure GH O GHMA rrrrrrr: rArA anmi dtmF dsmn mimD mrrA ..GH O GHMA. eeeeeee: eAeA anmi dtmF dsmn mimD mrGH O GHMA.rrrr eeeeere: srsr srseA srsr srsr ..A tesr mrsr mrte sasn smsi tesd rrr: rArA anmi d eeeeete: stsm mmte sdss smsn tesm sism mate smsr tmF dsmn mimD mr eeeeese: srmr tete tete tete tete tete tete tEtE rA .. eeeeeae: anmi dtmF dsmn GH O GHMA.. GH O GHMB mimD mrtE eA ttttttt: tBtB anmi dtmF dsmn mimD mttB ..GH O GHMB. for Believers X for Those who Skins like Burning Flags Carry their Prayers sss;; """++ Wi ? ni=r """++ for the Fear of Numbers G """++ GH O GHMA for Those who Read the Attitude of Bodies HIROSHIMA rrrrrrr: rArA aimd ntmF nsmi mdmD mrrA ..HIROSHIMA. eeeeeee: eAeA aimd ntmF nsmi mdmD mreA srsr srsr ..HIROSHIMA.rrrr eeeeere: srsr srsA tesr mrsr mrte sasi smsd tesn rrr: rArA aimd n eeeeete: stsm mmte snss smsi tesm sdsm mate smsr tmF nsmi mdmD mr eeeeese: srmr tete tete tete tete tete tete tEtE rA .. eeeeeae: aimd ntmF nsmi mdmD mrtE eA HIROSHIMA.. HIROSHIMB ttttttt: tBtB aimd ntmF nsmi mdmD mttB ..HIROSHIMB. YS YS}Q for Those left Breathlessly with Minds Intact sss;; """++ XdR?Vid=r """++ for the Comfort of Heads eAeA aimd ntmF nsmi mdmD mreA srsr srsr ..HIROSHIMA.rrrr eeeeere: srsr srsA tesr mrsr mrte sasi smsd tesn rrr: rArA aimd n eeeeete: stsm mmte snss smsi tesm sdsm mate smsr tmF nsmi mdmD mr eeeeese: srmr tete tete tete tete tete tete tEtE rA .. eeeeeae: aimd ntmF nsmi mdmD mrtE eA for Minds and Ashes, for These Days, for The Days to Come _________________________________________________________________________ I love your feelings I love your feelings, When I'm tired, and life's dreary / I wait for my Julu to return to me. / When life's a bore and I know there's more, / I mate with Julu, heavily. / When times are hard, and I'm all alone, / Julu throws me quite the bo ne. / Oh Julu, you're so heavenly! / ... Driven by defrag relentlessly towards you... Sometimes more and sometimes less / Julu comes and then's I'm blessed, / with sometimes more, and sometimes blessed! /:When I'm all alone and no one's home, / Julu comes and then we'll roam. / We'll fly up high, and sometimes sigh / for days gone bye, / July and me! /:When I'm tired, and life's dreary / I wait for my Julu to return to me. / When life's a bore and I know there's more, / I mate with Julu, heavily. / When times are hard, and I'm all alone, / Julu throws me quite the bone. / Oh Julu, you're so heavenly! /::So heavenly, when I'm all alone / Would When I'm tired, and life's dreary / I wait for my Julu to return to me. / When life's a bore and I know there's more, / I mate with Julu, heavily. / When times are hard, and I'm all alone, / Julu throws me quite the bone. / Oh Julu, you're so heavenly! / Sometimes more and sometimes less / Julu comes and then's I'm blessed, / with sometimes more, and sometimes blessed! /, with us? Your bones are your forcloseing? When I'm all alone and no one's home, / Julu comes and then we'll roam. / We'll fly up high, and sometimes sigh / for days gone bye, / July and me! / Now and then you'll come to me / So heavenly, when I'm all alone / You knock so soft, you'll throw the bone / When I'm all alone, when I'm all alone / ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:34:51 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Benjamin's ARCADES PROJECT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Benjamin's ARCADES PROJECT is at last available in English. It weighs in at over 1000 pages. I got my copy from Amazon. It retails for 39.95 but the Amazon price (including shipping) is 31.92 total. I recommend it. TomB. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:23:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Trumpeter Lester Bowie Is Dead at 58 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >November 11, 1999 >Lester Bowie Is Dead at 58; Innovative Jazz Trumpeter > >By BEN RATLIFF > >The trumpeter, band leader and composer Lester Bowie, an icon of the >experimental movement in jazz from the mid-1960's on who was also known >for his comic shows and jazz-based treatments of pop music, died on >Monday at his home in Brooklyn. He was 58. > >The cause was liver cancer, said his brother Byron. > >Best known as a member of the Art Ensemble of Chicago, Bowie performed >and recorded for more than 30 years. In that group he developed the two >things that would brand him: his knowing, Groucho Marx-like sense of >humor, expressed musically and otherwise, and his appearance. In most >performances he wore a long white lab coat and his narrow face was >bracketed by a flat-top haircut and a sharp goatee. In publicity photos >he was rarely seen without a cigar. > >His early working experiences were in rhythm-and-blues bands, and a >slow, expressive blues was his specialty. > >But the most famous part of Bowie's trumpet language was timbral effects >-- glissandos, smears, growls, flutters, half-valved winces and other >vocalizations that worked their way into the style of almost every >self-consciously experimental jazz trumpeter who came after him, >including Butch Morris, Dave Douglas, Herb Robertson and Roy Campbell. > >His recordings often seemed like prankish arguments that the only way to >understand jazz is to see it both in carnivalesque and intellectual >contexts, to play circus music and modernist post-bop, pure hit-parade >pop and nearly academic composition. > > > >Bowie was born in Frederick, Md. His father was a trumpeter who turned >to high-school teaching after striving for a performance career in >classical music. > >At age 5 Bowie was playing trumpet in daily practice with his father, >and he played in dance bands as a teenager. > >He joined the Army at the age of 17 and was stationed in Texas, where he >served as a military policeman. > >Bowie credited his career longevity to the four years he spent in the >service. After his discharge he played in bands led by blues and >rhythm-and-blues performers including Albert King, Jackie Wilson, Rufus >Thomas and Joe Tex, and was privately rehearsing more experimental music >with St. Louis musicians like Julius Hemphill and Oliver Lake. > >He married a rhythm-and-blues singer, Fontella Bass, and moved to >Chicago in 1965 to become her musical director; during that period Ms. >Bass recorded "Rescue Me," which became a major hit on radio. The >marriage ended in divorce. > >In Chicago Bowie worked with a big band led by George Hunter and played >in rhythm-and-blues studio sessions, including many for Chess Records. > >Tiring of the grind, he followed the advice of a saxophonist colleague >named Delbert Hill and attended a composers' workshop led by the pianist >Muhal Richard Abrams. > > > >Many of those in the workshop, including Roscoe Mitchell, Henry >Threadgill, Joseph Jarman, Anthony Braxton and Jack DeJohnette, would in >the next decade become major figures in the new jazz. > >Abrams's workshop bands formed the nucleus of the Association for the >Advancement of Creative Musicians, the nonprofit cooperative first >organized in 1965. > >Mitchell created a band with three other A.A.C.M. members: Bowie, the >bassist Malachi Favors and the drummer Phillip Wilson. When Wilson left, >the band had trouble finding a replacement. Out of desperation its >members incorporated small percussion instruments -- gongs, bells, >shakers -- into their group improvisations. This sound would be one of >the staple gestures of the music played by the Art Ensemble of Chicago, >which the Mitchell group became in 1969. > >By Bowie's reckoning, the Art Ensemble of Chicago rehearsed about 300 >times a year in Chicago and gave only a handful of performances because >there was almost nowhere to present their music. > >So they traveled to France, where there was curiosity about American >experimental jazz. They made six albums in two months and performed >hundreds of times in their two years there. The band played blues and >Bach fugues and percussion interludes and hooting free-improvisation >pieces and wore tribalist face-paint. > >The Art Ensemble's notoriety followed it back to the United States, and >the group was soon recording for Atlantic Records. > >By the mid-70's the Art Ensemble had an easier time reaching large >audiences. The band soon came to define an esthetic involving ethnic >music, humor, eclecticism and physical intensity that had a considerable >impact. > >In addition to his brother Byron, of Frederick, Bowie is survived by his >current wife, Deborah; his father, W. Lester Bowie Sr., and another >brother, Joseph, both of Frederick; six children, Larry Stevenson of >Sardinia, Italy; Ju'lene Coney and Nueka Mitchell of St. Louis; Sukari >Ivester of Chicago; Bahnamous Bowie of Queens, and Zola Bowie of >Brooklyn, and 10 grandchildren. > >During the 1970's Bowie spent two years in Jamaica playing and teaching >trumpet and took a brief trip to Nigeria, where he became a sideman on >three records with the popular bandleader Fela Anikulapo Kuti. > >Bowie started one new band after another, always surrounding himself >with work and often undertaking his own business affairs without a >manager. He led a quintet and a gospel group, From the Root to the >Source. In the early 80's, he formed the New York Hot Trumpet Quintet, >which briefly included Wynton Marsalis. Later Bowie and Marsalis would >often be cited in contrast in debates on the issue of futurism versus >traditionalism in jazz. > >He assembled a 59-piece band called the Sho Nuff Orchestra for a concert >at Symphony Space in Manhattan. His octet Brass Fantasy, formed in the >mid-80's, performed versions of pop and funk tunes by artists like the >Platters, Michael Jackson and James Brown, and recorded for the ECM, DIW >and Atlantic record labels. The group's last album was the 1998 "Odyssey >of Funk and Popular Music, Vol. 1." > >In recent years Bowie set up the Hip-Hop Feel-Harmonic, an unrecorded >project with rappers and musicians in his Brooklyn neighborhood of Fort >Greene. > >His sly sensibility won an appreciative following. An enduring example >was his track "Jazz Death?" from a 1968 album by Roscoe Mitchell's band, >"Congliptious." It begins with Bowie's dramatically clearing his throat >and asking, "Is jazz, as we know it, dead yet?" > >The reply is a long trumpet solo punctuated with silences, muted wah-wah >passages, Bowie's own off-horn shrieks and murmured comments, and >finally, six minutes later, a sentence: "Well, I guess that all depends >on, ah, what you know." > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 1980 23:44:18 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Maria L. Zavialov" Organization: IREX/IATP Subject: class, gender etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Like in Russia a native of Moscow coming to St. Petersburg is > automatically moving >>one step up on the social ladder. > Really? Would you kindly explain that? I'm under the impression it's the > other way around. Philip, I see why you are confused, I meant Muscovites just visiting those other places and retaining their status of a metropolis-dweller. Of course their raised status is virtual but it's no less real for that. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:13:13 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: I Need Good Email Address on Second Story Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello list, Had two emails I send to Mary Burger at SF's Second Story Books kickbacked. If Mary is here please backchannel me, or if someone has good info please do the same. as ever, David Kirschenbaum, editor Boog Literature, NYC ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 23:52:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Neff Organization: Web Del Sol Subject: Re: class, gender etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Masha, Go to Kentucky, look around, start there, see poor, dirt floors, rags and rust. "all be said"? I don't think so. There are tens of millions of poor in this country. Commence to ciphering. MN Maria L. Zavialov wrote: > Discussing class it's good to remember WHERE this discussion is taking > place. Place, I mean a geographic spot or location, is > another aspect (like gender) that should be introduced into the discussion. > I mean location in terms of its economic situation. Thus the inhabitants of > the US can all be said to belong to the upper class if viewed from a poor > Asian country. One should try hard to stay hungry in the US, isn't one? The > same goes for different locations within one and the same country. Like in > Russia a native of Moscow coming to St. Petersburg is automatically moving > one step up on the social ladder. And when he comes to a small > provincial town he is already two steps up. And in a village... oh, in a > village he (yes, he) is a guru. > Masha Z. -- ================================ Web Del Sol http://webdelsol.com LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 01:52:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: winter logs in hokkaido MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - winter logs in hokkaido honshu incense kamogami smoke calls forth hysterias and the last_time beyond the endless roll of days, answering and calling forth beyond the shame, honshu incense kamogami smoke, dead words in beauty-smoke kyushu last_time is kitakyushu in black earth, the long_lost_time and refugees and dreams and you walked for 261796 hours honshu incense kamogami smoke and we are still alive for 6 days of comas, we have been dissolute and buried, and it has taken us 23 minutes to speak our last honshu incense kamogami smoke, dead words in beauty-smoke kyushu winter logs in hokkaido, kitakyushu, moji your hysterias, fukuoka, are outside my shame and kitakyushu our lost_love destroys the smoke of kitakyushu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 10:15:19 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dubravka Djuric Subject: Fw: (Fwd) (Fwd) International Women's University Hannover MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > > Please find below an invitation of the International Women's > University, Hannover. > > >Dear All, > >as promised some information on the International Women`s University > >"Technology and Culture" in Hannover. > >It is going to take place from july, 15th to October 15th, during the EXPO > >2000. > >900 junior women scientists from all over the world will be invited to > >participate. Fundamental features of the ifu are internationality, > >interdisciplinarity and the integration of art + science. > >The project is devided into 6 areas: work - information - body - migration > >- city - water as highly controversial problems in the 21th century. > > > >You can find further information at > > > >http://www.Int-Frauenuni.de > > > >email:postmaster@ifu.niedersachsen.de > > > >Best wishes, > >Michaela > > > >the application date has been expired to NOVEMBER 30!!! > > > > > > Esther Vonk, ATHENA central coordinator > Lia Stigter, ATHENA assistant > International Office Women's Studies, Utrecht University > Trans 10, 3512 JK Utrecht, The Netherlands > tel. +31 30 253.6013, fax +31 30 253.6695 > http://www.let.uu.nl/womens_studies/athena.htm > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 10:49:40 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dubravka Djuric Subject: raport-forth regional seminar - ceu budapest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Three weeks ago Central European University, Program on Gender and Culture organized the first meeting of Fourth Regional Seminar on Gender and Culture. Seminar theme is: Women in Literature and the Arts - Ten Years after the changes. First sesion was dedicated to historical questions. Most of the presentations were considering women writers from the end of the 19th century and first part of 20th century, who are part of the national canon, but tend to give new interpertations of their work or pointing to their differece. Some of the interesting issues discussed were: women and madness; ambigues relation of the small easteuropean cultures to the large west cultures; andogene contract, question of the canon and the position of women in it in easteurope, etc. Next session will be at the begining of the March 2000 and will dedicated to the general theme Literature and Transition. AGENDA: ---------- > > Friday, October 29 > > 15-16 > Introductions > > 16:30-18:30 > Anna Gacs (Hungary): Problems of Regarding Women's Writing as an Autonomous Corpus in > a Small Literature. > > Discussion: Problems of the Literary Cannon (moderator Anna Gacs) > > Saturday, October 30 > 10-11 > Dubravka Djuric (Yugoslavia): Remarks on Revaluation and Re-contextualization of Women's Heritage. > Martina Moravcova (Czech): Bozena Nemcova: the Problematic Matriarch. > > 11:30-12:30 > Discussion: Revaluation of Women's Writing (moderators Dubravka Djuric) > > 14-16 > Biljana Dojcinovic-Nesic (Yugoslavia): "My name is impossibility:" Observations on An/other Literary History > Dasa Francikova (Czech): Rethinking Bozena Nemcova's Friendships with Women > Katarzyna Wieckowska (Poland): A Double Erasure. The Life and Work of Maria Komornicka. > > Discussion: Silences and Erasures in Women's Literary History (moderator > Biljana Dojcinovic-Nesic) > > 16:30-18:30 > Miglena Nikolchina (Romania): Love Triangles and Intellectual Couples: Strategies and Counter-strategies in Bulgarian Women's Literary History > Irina A. Zherebkina (Ukraine) - The Fair Lady > Sandra Meskova (Latvia)- Anna Brigadere and the Construction of Woman in Her Autobiographical Novel "Dievs. Daba. Darbs." (God. Nature. Labour.) > > Discussion: Women-Writers' Positioning in/against the Cannon (moderator > Sandra Meskova) > > > Sunday, October 31 > > 10-12: 30 > Conclusive Discussion: Priorities and Directions > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 14:41:34 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Business, class, access MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To clarify the statement "A force to work against without the naming process supplies the energy without the denegrative state of reverse labeling." I made earlier, I found this in the new Booglite, written by Harryette Mullen: "The work of Erica Hunt and Will Alexander seems specifically designed to render inoperative such assumptions [issues of class & race]. Their work challenges conventional or reductive descriptions of "black poetry" and "black identity," while confronting head-on the conventional splitting of identity politics and black literary production from aesthetic practices, innovations, and influences of literary avant-gardes typically identified with Europe. While they certainly differ from each other in style, ideological position, and in aesthetic influences, both poets allow themselves a broad range of subject matter. Alexander is especially eclectic and inclusive when it comes to choosing topics for writing, from alchemy, philosophy, and religion to the history of visual art. Hunt's poetry brings to the page a recognizably urban female persona that eludes common racial stereotypes, while Alexander's hermeticism and surrealism signal the continuing influence of a historically international avant-garde." The writing without mention of the opposition, the writing which neutralizes it, appears to have a powerful effect. I would be interested learning about poetry which is class based that mentions the oppressor in concrete terms, rather than not at all, and does so with out falling into the triteness that often occurs in oppositional poetics. I can think of a few, but very few. Joy Harjo's work, Martin Espada's _City of Coughing and Dead Radiators_ most examples do not hold to multiple readings in the way that Neidecker's work or Alexanders does. Rachel Loden's new book is one of the only recent books I've read that directly attacks the US socio-political situation and remains intact for multiple readings. Jill, if you check back through my posts, I did not state that lack of access to opportunities does not occur, I made pains to maintain my writing in "I" based statements, when mass assumptions were made & I knew they did not fit me, I went outside of these confines to include some other individual writers. Never was there a "we" intended. I did not address women & class, which is not an oversight, I do not have personal experience and assume others here would address the subject. Don Wellman (lilliput?) & Dodie bring up something that I wonder about, having done it a lot myself, especially in grad school. The act of overcompensation. Which seeing these posts together makes me wonder if this truth of, as Dodie states, "working class guys [having] a harder time assimilating into the middle class poetry world" is a section of this overcompensation. And I too have found it "intolerable that some people wish to rub my naivity in my face." The question from me is, when does one cross this line of overcompensation on the page? Inaccurate hearing of slang, use of the latinate, stating of the opposition? And Joe Amato, I have always have admired your ability to get to the core of the matter, to get something learnable from it. I'll make an attempt to answer your post when there is more time, as, yes, it is a difficult subject to discuss, & my time to write impinged by physical labor today. As for David Larsen "Having no ambition myself to rise so high into 'the upper eschelons' of anything as to be unable to resist crapping on people a la Mr. Baratier," who "volunteers to serve as this list's spokesperson for lettuce-sorters --and, if need be, to pass your *civil* responses back to them." There seems to be an assumption that I made the lettuce sorting comment which is not the case. And *civil*, such as this one? I hope your aggression towards the target you believe me to be has made you feel better. Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:01:06 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Sub Voicive Poetry and Writers Forum Comments: To: brit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for cross posting The Sub Voicive Poetry and Writers Forum websites remain impossible to update and are intermittently available for reading. The provider says it is everybody else's fault. Instead of giving one deadline after another, like the supplier, let me say that I shall post another note as soon as there is a change and that if there isn't a change by the end of the coming week - say by 20th November - then I shall look to relocating the website No information is yet incorrect but there are updates which will add information which cannot be made The next SVP reading in London is by David Bromige and Michael Heller on Tuesday 16th November Upstairs 3 Cups Sandland Street London WC1 8 p m It is hoped that there will be a new issue of Spad magazine, devoted to work by David Bromige; assuming it is available on time a copy will be given to every paying member of the audience Further details for those who cannot attend on publication Lawrence Upton ----------------------------------------------- SVP: http://matrix.crosswinds.net/members/~subvoicivepoetry/ Lawrence Upton: http://members.spree.com/sip/lizard/index.htm RWC: http://members.tripod.com/~ReadandWrite/contents.html Writers Forum: http://www2.crosswinds.net/members/~writersforum/ ----------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:31:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Anne Waldman and Bill Berkson at SPT, 11/19 / saidenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit had to reformat. Chris -- From: jocelyn saidenberg Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:50:50 -0800 Small Press Traffic Reading Friday, November 19, 7:30 p.m. Anne Waldman reading and interviewed by Bill Berkson Anne Waldman makes a special appearance tonight in honor of Small Press Traffic's 25th anniversary. There's too much to say about Waldman! She's a poet, performer, teacher, Distinguished Professor of Poetics at the Naropa University where she founded the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics with Allen Ginsberg in 1974. She has written over 30 books & pamphlets of poetry including Troubairitz, Kill or Cure, Iovis Books I & II, Young Mazhattan (with Bill Berkson). Forthcoming from Penguin Poets is her new full-length poem, Marriage: A Sentence. In addition, she is a noted editor, with many publications including Disembodied Poetics: Annals Of The Jack Kerouac School with Andrew Schelling and The Beat Book. Winner of the Shelley Memorial Prize, she has made collaborative projects recently with artists GeorgeSchneeman, Susan Rothenberg & Richard Tuttle, and is currently guest director of the Schule fur Dichtung in Vienna, Austria. She has never given the same reading twice, so we don't know quite what to expect, but the hot money says that you've never felt anything like the roller-coaster of swoops, dives, tremolo, atman, fire-walking, fast talking, seven elements of history, myth, gossip, magic, enchantment and theatrical power that you will hear tonight. She will be interviewed by the poet Bill Berkson, author of ten books of poetry, including Saturday Night: Poems 1960-61, Recent Visitors, Enigma Variations, Blue is the Hero and Lush Life. Mr. Berkson, one of the premier poets of California, has taught and directed the public lectures program at the SF Art Institute since 1984. He plays well with others, vide his famous collaborations with Frank O'Hara and Philip Guston, and so we are glad to be able to secure him to quiz his old associate, Anne Waldman. New College Theater 777 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:31:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: new anthology... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" just rec'd news in the mail of what looks to be yet another interesting, and no doubt eyebrow raising, anthology, this time on oxford up no less (as most of you know, the same press that dropped of late their contemporary poetry series, despite public handwringing in the british parliament)... forthcoming december 1999, just in time for mla, y2k, etc.: _anthology of modern american poetry_ ed. cary nelson 1200 pp., paper, $45 here's the list of the poets included (which is not meant to imply that all poets receive equal treatment, page-wise): ------- walt whitman emily dickinson edwin markham sadakichi hartmann edgar lee masters edwin arlington robinson james weldon johnson paul lawrence dunbar lola ridge amy lowell gertrude stein robert frost alice dunbar-nelson carl sandburg vachel lindsay wallace stevens angelina weld grimke georgia douglas johnson mina loy anne spencer william carlos williams ezra pound h.d. robinson jeffers marianne moore t. s. eliot john crowe ransom claude mckay edna st. vincent millay archibald macleish dorothy parker genevieve taggard e. e. cummings jean toomer charles reznikoff herman spector v. j. jerome john wheelwright joseph freeman lucia trent louise bogan harry crosby hart crane allen tate melvin b. tolson yvor winters sterling a. brown laura (riding) jackson angel island: poems by chinese immigrants, 1910-1940 kenneth fearing langston hughes arna bontemps gwendolyn bennett countee cullen lorine neidecker kay boyle carl rakosi aqua laluah louis zukofsky john beecher kenneth rexroth robert penn warren stanley kunitz joseph kalar richard wright theodore roethke george oppen edwin rolfe charles olson sol funaroff elizabeth bishop william everson tillie lerner olsen muriel rukeyser robert hayden charles henri ford weldon kees randall jarrell japanese american concentration camp haiku, 1942-1944 john berryman william stafford dudley randall joy davidman margaret walker ruth stone thomas mcgrath robert lowell gwendolyn brooks william bronk robert duncan richard wilbur mona van duyn james dickey denise levertov anthony hecht bob kaufman maxine kumin paul blackburn frank o'hara james merrill allen ginsberg robert creeley robert bly a. r. ammons james wright john ashbery galway kinnell w. s. merwin anne sexton philip levine adrienne rich gary snyder gregory corso etheridge knight sylvia plath henry dumas amiri baraka n. scott momaday mark strand audre lorde charles wright mary oliver jayne cortez lucille clifton susan howe michael s. harper ishmael reed lawson fusao inada robert pinsky welton smith judy grahn robert hass sharon olds louise gluck michael palmer paul violi carolyn m. rodgers ron silliman adrian c. louis yusef komunyakaa ai wendy rose c. d. wright jessica hagedorn ray a. young bear carolyn forche garrett kaoru hongo rita dove jimmy santiago baca anita endrezze ana castillo mark doty harryette mullen louise erdrich sandra cisneros thylias moss patricia smith marilyn chin sesshu foster martin espada sherman alexie ------- quite some list, no?... i'm eager to understand the logic behind this compilation (which seems self-evident in some cases, and far from same in others), but will of course have to get my hands on a copy first... the text is supported by a "rapidly evolving website, which now features pages for more than 70 of the anthologized poets": http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps and editor nelson may be contacted if you wish to contribute to same: prof. cary nelson 217 356-4640 (fax) english dept. university of illinois 608 s. wright st. urbana, illinois 61801 usa /// joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:39:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Conner Subject: HIGHWIRE READING Comments: To: abdalhayy@aol.com, aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HighwireN2@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, jnchenn@sas.upenn.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, MargBarr@aol.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stephen.potter@ey.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0898acdc-00000001" --openmail-part-0898acdc-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="HIGHWIRE" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="HIGHWIRE" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ONE MORE TIME... --openmail-part-0898acdc-00000001 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:59:34 -0500 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: Fw: HIGHWIRE READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: travmar03/internet////////RFC-822/travmar03#a#msn#f#com@hpmail1 From: travmar03@msn.com TO: Kyle.Conner@mail.tju.edu Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0898acdc-00000002" --openmail-part-0898acdc-00000002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Fw:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm3pm > ************************************************************** =20 > > HIGHWIRE GALLERY READING SERIES > > 129 N. 2ND STREET, PHILADELPHIA =20 > > =20 > > SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 1999 =20 > > 3 PM > > BYOB > > =20 > > =20 > > John Colleti and Heather Starr > > =20 > > =20 > > Following the reading, follow your leaders Kyle and Greg to Anthony'= s > Olde > > City Pub for some only-in-Philly rot-gut. At 7:30 PM we'll all got t= o > > Giovanni's Room. C.A. Conrad will host a group reading to celebrate = the > > publication of the Exquisite Corpse anthology published this year by= > Black > > Sparrow. > > =20 > > John Colleti is a totally righteous dude. He is art director for Nyl= on > > Designs and is currently collaborating on a series of plays. > > =20 > > Splayed Subtext > > =20 > > Rendezvous 8th AVenue Nite Aid Hot Roles > > Farsighted Where Minds Play Wild Discovery > > Don't Throw Your Life Away Phoenix House > > Nearsighted La Nueva MEGA Know How > > Many Days Are Left A Story Inside Every Jacket > > Rockaway Call Us? We Can Help/Sponsored By > > Air France 6 AV New Jersey Rocking Rollers > > Daily News Television Helping To END TV > > At CUNY Open 24 Hours Subway Maps IPO > > To Fetch Banana Republic Record Stores Wild > > Discovery Of The Modern Are From The WINE > > STOP To Street The Siege The New York Eye & > > Infirmary Circuit Avenue Home? Whatever > > It's In L O O T > > =20 > > Heather Starr is Program Manager for the Writer's House. She's given= tons > > of props to the Philadelphia poetry scene, so don't be lazy, come ou= t and > > support Heather. > > =20 > > This Bow and Arrow > > =20 > > cast a shadow. ribs of color. > > all i noticed was the curve. > > worn white stones. constant drifting. > > not target, and no open field in between. > > can you shoot an arrow safely over > > seas? strange weaving of arms. > > a young man from Ottawa, his face turned. > > a plank to water the island > > of irises. here, let's go back to town. > > we've been walking so long with our hands full. 8 PM 8PM 8PM 8PM 8PM 8 PM 8PM 8PM 8PM 8PM 8 PM 8PM 8PM 8PM 8PM = 8 PM 8PM 8PM 8PM 8PM Saturday November 20, 1999 Carol Mirakove and Heather Thomas Carol Mirakove is launching her new book published by Ixnay (Philadelphi= a). Heather Thomas is an editor of 6ix Magazine and a Professor in Kutztown.= > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 --openmail-part-0898acdc-00000002-- --openmail-part-0898acdc-00000001-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 17:16:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello al ~ if/when you get a moment, would you please direct me to info on the philly poetics list? i was told to look on the writers house page - which i did to no avail. thanks in advance/apologies for taking your time, hassen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:53:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Weekend in New Orleans (part 5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" { p o e t i x } i know i said i was gonna knock this off but all those lighters raised in the audience have lured me back again --- *and* i thought of a number of other things that i wdve mentioned had they occurred but for whatever reason didnt when i wrote up reports 1-4, so, as a last stab at the final notation SYMPOSIUM after my talk, andy di michele's, camille's and randy's, hank lazer acted as something of a prompter and facillitator for a "panel on an otherness: the south and experimentation" ---- he handled this something like a thing i'd seen him do in tuscaloosa some time back and rather than knocking a ball out between two of the presenters or searching for things within their talks he instead had a series of (i think it was 10) propositions, or questions ---- these were all interesting unrolling but i do recall thinking that that any one of them wd have served for the framing of a whole conference ---- and he had 10 multi-layered and thickly implicating questions at the this remove the ones that stick out in my memory are those to do with the nature of regionalism, being "southern", the serach for distinctions within and between words like community, local, region etc ---- and another question that hovered around the question of ~what next~? where people are going what are they doing etc it also occurs to me that i didnt mention mike sarki's talk at all ---- he was speaking "against the experimental as such" and beneath the defensiveness and protestations that we wd misunderstand, that he didnt belong there, the assertions that "we" were all academics whereas he was a plumber etc ---- beneath all of that his main point seemed to be that "experimental" wasnt a genre (and that if it was he had nothing to do with it) and that instead what experimentalists were obsessed with was a search for novelty ---- this was a curious talk for a number of reasons ---- he protested his "common man" status against all the assembled "academics" (who were they exactly?) and yet he was ghosting along the edges of heidegger in his talk and ended with a longish quote from deleuze ---- he presented himself as the one disssenting vote about what ~experimental~ might mean and while i didnt give the talk i was hoping i wd've, nonetheless one of my main statements was that ~experimental~ isnt meaningful when used as a genre or stylistic term ---- anyway in the panel at the end the "E-word" surfaced a good deal and judging by the general trend in usage neither my attempted pruning nor sarki's feint toward "novelty" made much difference to anyone and i think that in spite of hank's propositions and what had transpired in the talks the panel threatened to fall into a cataloging of impressions RE the E-word that added very little to what had happened already BERNADETTE at one point bernadette was talking about having her own cow for milk etc when i walked into the dining room at camille's and i remember everyone laughing a good bit about it but not much of anything that was said ---- i imagined bernadette facing the cow in perhaps a parlor somewhere asking it questions READING david thomas roberts was billed as a visual artist, poet and contemporary rag composer and player --- in the reading he mentioned the ozarks in missouri several times as being behind the references in various poems (i never caught any of these it seems) ---- i liked his vispo material in the NOR issue a fair amount and his reading was fine tho i have a certain difficulty bringing the 2 sets of impressions into any relation hank lazer read, and again i was reminded of the event in tuscaloosa which i reported on some time back here ---- 1st perhaps b/c hank read one of the pieces that he'd read there with a line which i believe goes "chilli lewis legged in a grounder" --- his also was the poem i mentioned elsewhere in these reports called "prayer" ---- a number of things struck me in hank's reading ---- his use of a hand gesture to delineate the breaks within a series of untitled pieces (andy di michele also used a lot of gestures in his reading/talk earlier that day and again the next day at the maple leaf bar) and the gestures that he made at moments within the poem itself, particularly a gesture with the bent index and thumb taken from the fist as if holding up a small stone or showing someone the measure of something that size ---- another thing i noted about hank's reading was the meditative pace and the clarity of utterance (maybe i'm specifically impressed by these things as i tend to read between quick and very fast and when i read slower i feel as if i'm getting ponderous) that really held the attention during the course of this event intermissionless event i had some difficulty paying attention and also took a couple of breaks and so apologize for not having anything to say about dave brinks, susan facknitz, or andy young (maybe this last was the most physically sensually oriented work read) and there were also two dance pieces by amy trussell both interpretations of jake berry poems ---- i liack the knowledge or vocabulary to say much of anything about these --- tho i do with that i had been able to hear the poem better and too jake berry was sorely missed at this event PARTY AT BILL'S at one point while randy and skip and i were talking poetry in a darkened room (see previous reports) there was some commotion outside the window and lights moving around and randy looked out to see that bill was flashlighting up into the tree in his backyard where two raccoons were seated in a crook watching the partiers next day i head tell of how it is in the alley behind bill's where a neighbor feeds all the alley cats and the coons and cats have ceased turf and territory wars and can be seen eating side by side from the same bowl AT THE AIRPORT bill wished us goodbye and told us to call if we git bumped from our flight or if it crashed or anything that he cd help with ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 17:47:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "loose ends" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII / / "loose ends" "my shameful eyes, the Leopold" "my shameful eyes, the dead eyes roiling me on your spike, always that spike again, tired of eating, swallowing, of the whole thing, in a hurry before I die.:yes sure, whatever, eating each other, it's the stuff of typography, what makes lead, what poisons the body, you wouldn't know that:when i'm running it's crazy, my head presses into my toes:death of birth:denouement of life Does when I'm running it's crazy, my head presses into my toes turn Azure, my shameful eyes, the dead eyes roiling me on your spike, always that spike again, tired of eating, swallowing, of the whole thing, in a hurry before I die., to you? last_fuck with hours of sexual fury!" "!" "Elsewhere, I've removed the exclamation mark from a point within a text, calming everything down. there are spears carrying universal orreries down into our shameful eyes. I want things calm, flat, the whole world smoothed and healed, spikes as well. no lead typography or dead trees. thinking in very many streams, flowing without ripples, sheen." "Nikuko and Doctor Leopold Konninger" "Last night I dreamed of famous Russian ballet dancer Nikuko still slowly pirouetting before Doctor Leopold Konninger, the two locked in mutual fascination, obsession, to the exclusion of everything else. An orrery, impenetrable, the body writing itself into space, turning on the wood of trees - the Other, seated, upon the same." "I don't" "I don't want to murder anyone's words.:silence anyone. :I don't want to:I don't want murder or death.:I don't want to murder anyone's words. Come with me, I don't want to murder anyone's words., Doctor Leopold Konninger! dark eyes and blind shamefulness:so yes, through my eyes, your spike I cannot see alas:so very shameful eyes:your doing with me:your taking me Come with me, dark eyes and blind shamefulness, Doctor Leopold Konninger!" __________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 23:06:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Noise News: 'Your Life' (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (I was once associated with Perforations, which I love. Alan) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 22:52:50 -0500 (EST) From: robert cheatham To: noise@noel.pd.org Cc: artnews@noel.pd.org Subject: Noise News: 'Your Life' @@@ @@@ @@@@@@ @@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@ @@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@ @@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@!@!@@@ @@! @@@ @@! !@@ @@! !@!!@!@! !@! @!@ !@! !@! !@! @!@ !!@! @!@ !@! !!@ !!@@!! @!!!:! !@! !!! !@! !!! !!! !!@!!! !!!!!: !!: !!! !!: !!! !!: !:! !!: :!: !:! :!: !:! :!: !:! :!: ::: :: ::::: :: :: :::: :: :: :::: :: : : : : : :: : : : :: :: "The bit of noise, the small random element, transforms one system or one order into another." M. Serres "Between the rationality for which the analysis speaks and the law that history repeats there remains a gap, infinitesimal to be sure, but fundamental" M. De Certeau *************** First of all, we at Public Domain and Perforations would like to wish everyone a happy holiday season. For those of us who live half-electronically, It's easy to forget that the other half lives very concretely. We would also like to thank all those who have contributed to Perforations as well as those who have visited the PD site. We are now averaging about 41,000 hits a month--and for something that's not a porno site, a download or topical news site that's pretty gratifying and we thank you again for visiting with us. We are still compiling P21, 'Eurocentrism and the Dilemma of Deep Time' and are beginning to think ahead to P23, on poetics, as well as a general Public Domain digital arts project late next year to be called 'Inter/Facing The Dead'. More on those later. For now let's talk about: 'YOUR LIFE' PERFORATIONS 22 As I was making an entry in my on-line journal recently, it occurred to me that there must be hundreds of on-line journals and diaries in this pre-millennial year. Perhaps most of them not using any flashy graphics, javascript, CGI, CCS, dhtml, but patiently recording the ebb and flow of their daily, weekly, or monthly life, perhaps only the minutiae which seems to clog most of lives but also gives it feet and shoes with which to walk, the stories of our small pleasures as well as occasional defeats. But perhaps also the occasional glimmer that seems to give us some sense of where and who we are, where we've been and where we think we should be going, a passing but necessary illumination for not only those of us who write them but maybe even, fleetingly, for those who might happen to come across them. This node of PERFORATIONS will feature your journal or diary (after all--you put it on-line so you must want folks to read it, right?) Whether only the daily emotional weather, dream diary, your occasional unformed theoretical musings, sophisticated or homespun, we would like to feature them. Rather than storing them on the Public Domain server, we would like to link to your URL since the expectation is that these are on-going efforts (with the exception perhaps of archived or discontinued journals.). The only other wish on our part (other than that they be on-going efforts) is that you send a small graphic which can be used as a thumbnail on the index page and perhaps a brief description. For more information contact Robert Cheatham at zeug@pd.org ************** general enquires to: info@pd.org Public Domain, Inc. is a 501 (c) 3 non-profit organization devoted to exploring the nexus between art, theory, technology, and community. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 23:44:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Lester Bowie/KPFA Comments: cc: SFBlues@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Bennett paid lovely tribute and played a number of cuts by the late Lester Bowie during "Forms & Feelings," the title of Bennett's regular (excellent) KPFA (Berkeley) Saturday afternoon jazz program. Another good reason to support the uniqueness of the station against overhaul efforts by its currently misdirected umbrella, the Pacifica Foundation. Cheers, Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:13:01 -0500 Reply-To: cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Melisa Cahnmann Organization: University of Pennsylvania Subject: Laughing Hermit Series: Poets, Gary Short and Jan Heller Levi Comments: To: Kyle Conner Comments: cc: abdalhayy@aol.com, aberrigan@excite.com, abirge@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, agil@erols.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, ayperry@aol.com, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, baratier@megsinet.net, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, bdowns@columbiabooks.com, Becker@law.vill.edu, bette343@hotmail.com, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, booglit@excite.com, BStrogatz@aol.com, chris@bluefly.com, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@NETAXS.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, FPR@history.upenn.edu, fuller@center.cbpp.org, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, gmarder@hotmail.com, gnawyouremu@hotmail.com, goodwina@xoommail.com, HighwireN2@aol.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, icepalace@mindspring.com, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jeng1@earthlink.net, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jimstone2@juno.com, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jlutt3@pipeline.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, jnchenn@sas.upenn.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, jwatkins@unix.temple.edu, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lgoldst@dept.english.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@NETAXS.com, MargBarr@aol.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, penwaves@mindspring.com, pla@sas.upenn.edu, poetry4peeps@hotmail.com, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, richardfrey@dca.net, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stephen.potter@ey.com, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, thorpe@sas.upenn.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, travmar03@msn.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, ywisher@hotmail.com, zurawski@astro.temple.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 2pm, poets Gary Short and Jan Heller Levi ************************************************************** LAUGHING HERMIT READING SERIES 3805 Locust Walk on UPenn's Campus, PHILADELPHIA SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 1999 2pm Poets Gary Short and Jan Heller Leviwill be reading Saturday November 20 at 2pm for the Laughing Hermit Series at Kelly Writers' House, 3805 Locust Walk on UPenn's campus. See the web site for more details: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/laughinghermit/ BIO: Gary Short has been a Stegner Fellow at Stanford and a resident of the Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown. He is the author of Theory of Twilight and a second book of poems, Flying Over Sonny Liston, which received the Western States Book Award. He is from Nevada, and from 1997-99 was the writer-in-residence at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. He currently teaches at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia. POEMS: GARY SHORT Psalm The sky is the healing wound of St. Agatha. New light cast on the seven dead geese stacked in the bed of the truck. Their wings stiff around their bodies make them cocoons of former flight. The boy’s breath, like a white wing, hangs in the air above him. His ears pink with wind, the steel ridges of the truck bed stripe his jeans with cold. The sleeping dog rides in the back with him. He can hear his father & two uncles in the cab laughing. Their heads bob between the guns on the rack. On some of the geese the eyes are open. A non-living eye not quite clear, like the clouded face of a watch. He thinks of flying, how it would feel to have nothing surround you. You can hear their call long before you see them. He remembers hearing a flock on another morning, Geese stitched across the gray cloth of sky just before the sun rose red over the uneven mountains. The birds flying over a boy’s sleep, distant voices lifting up memories— that distant call made him want to be good. The truck rattling over a cattleguard startles the boy alert & he hears a moan. At first he thinks it’s the dog, dreaming after birds. But then another drone releases from one of the geese. He had watched them fall, spin around & crumple like a kite in a dive, dying in midair. Now he sorts through the bodies, black heads, pliant collared necks, plush silvered breasts piled limp & ruffled. He finds the goose & holds it, unfolds the shut wings. In the soft rush of riffled feathers he feels the clotted blood where shot entered. Opening the black visors of the bill, he covers the nose holes with his fingers & blows a few breaths of air into the silty hollow of the bird. And the dead bird gives back the boy’s own breath in distinct syllables, nasal & conversational, before the bill goes slack. Then the boy breathes harder into the goose, cradles it & listens until there is music, a swell of air returned over the bird’s vocal cords, a purr, a dirge, a lost-soul quaver. A blue cone of sound, human-made, or made human. Gathering All night the bent apple trees drop their fruit in the storm, & I don’t hear one fall, not one. What else fell while I slept? The twisted limbs glitter silver in the early sun. A blur of bees dizzy among broken apples on the ground. At first waking I’m confused & mistake the busy dance as warm blossoming, when the bees need nectar & the flowers need pollen to be moved. I think that’s how it works, but I admit to confusion about the sexual affinity of apple trees and bees. These bees swarm the full-grown overripe fruit. They are drawn to sweetness. I have known for a long time the seduction of an apple. In fourth grade I shared my snack of graham crackers & quartered apple with Adrian Vucinich. To impress her, I would bite the crackers into outlines of states, accepting requests— Idaho, Illinois, the difficult shape of Texas. I know it was only the love of a small boy, but a small thirst accumulates, as I’ve learned again from the sparrows that sip this morning from pocket mirrors of water in the hoofprints of cattle. Perseid A meteor breaks through the late-summer night, a white blossom scattering, furiously. It doesn’t make a noise, at least none that we can hear. It disappears in all directions— demonstrating desire & its difficulty. There. The half-moon floating thin & translucent as a cicada’s wing. We say the moon is half-full, even as it wanes. So much longing… To witness the unfolding across distance. How we must look to anyone watching. Here is the star cage. Here the still life with black clock. Here is the sparking wish, scattered. Please see web page for Jan Heller Levi's poems: BIO: Jan Heller Levi, born in New York City and raised in Baltimore, is the 1998 winner of the Walt Whitman Award of the Academy of American Poets for her first collection of poems, Once I Gazed at You in Wonder, published by Louisiana State University Press in April 1999. In 1998, she was also awarded the George Bogin Memorial Prize from the Poetry Society of America. Her poems have appeared in a number of literary magazines and anthologies, including Graham House Review, New Orleans Review, Poetry East, and Pequod; have been translated into German, and published in Switzerland in the St. Galler Tagblatt, Wochenzeitung, and drehpunkt. She is the editor of A Muriel Rukeyser Reader (W.W. Norton), named by Choice Magazine as "One of the Best Books of 1994" and included in Utne Readers' 1998 "Loose Canon" List of 150 Great Works to "set your imagination on fire." Levi has been a fellow at Yaddo several times; was named the George and Kate Kendall Fellow for her 1997 residency at the MacDowell Colony; and awarded the Diane Cleaver Fellowship for a September 1997 residency at Ledig House International Colony for Writers, Editors, and Translators. She is married to the Swiss novelist and playwright Christoph Keller, and divides her time between St. Gallen, Switzerland and New York City. She is currently working on a biography of Muriel Rukeyser, to be published by Alfred A. Knopf. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 17:37:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: Business, class, AMMIANO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RD Levitsky writing from the Villa: Karen Finley, I am paraphrasing, agreed with Williams, put it in more dire terms, a victory to get of bed in the morning. I got lost driving around the suburbs of the silicon valley yesterday on my way to teach the "peerless poets," a group of self described young seniors, who meet each week in a surburban living room. It's all impressive, living in these black tops and worrying about the root of one tree pushing on the roots of another. Ammiano--I for one, and I for another, the poet I, was enlivened, brought back into the culture, as in the momentary spat of AIDS/Sex politics street activism, momentarily, hope--is not this why we write and what makes us stop (loss of) when we do. To me, the writer must be an innocent despite being weighted with the world. Same with the activist. More to say but I 'm sure it will be said. A Little on Class--Many of us I would consider to be in a "mutt" position in amerika, this land in which there are so many versions, the one here in the valley which places a gate between the smaller houses and the bigger houses another one which places a gate between my state education and your ivy league education and your high school education, and the one which separates the first generation amerikan to a second, a pink from a brown from a tan from a hooked nose etc. Being a mutt, as being an exile, as being an outsider, may be a necessary or endemic position for writing. An anecdote: I once taught welfare recipients, through one of those abominable BEGIN (END) programs. When discussing class, my students, many of them told me they considered themselves middle class--as marked by their housing and their possessions. I for one am of the leisure class -- or so my father would say. Love, Rachel -----Original Message----- From: Joe Amato To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Business, class, access >david b, i think i find mself on the opposite side of the table from you, >and sitting next to kathy lou, when it comes to this issue of class... and >i think you know this (based on SO many of my posts to this list in the >past, dealing specifically with this issue)... so i hesitate to try to >persuade you of my way of looking at things, esp. b/c i regard my way of >looking at things as opening to some relatively elemental and utterly >urgent realities... but what the hell, it's twixt friends, or virtual >friends, or acquaintances, or whatever... so i'll give it a whack, and i'll >be deliberate... > >you speak of "classism" as something that "exists"... not an esp. strong >claim, from where i sit... but my question would be, how does it exist? and >why does it exist? and esp., in the context of what i would loosely call, a >tad archaically, *the writing life*... > >of course there's all sortsa room here for idiosyncracies, but--- > >and of course i believe that most writers will ultimately, *should* >ultimately find a way to write, but--- > >these allowances don't in themselves obviate a discussion of (e.g.) >class-based struggle... say, as it relates to writing process and product, >but also as it relates to our perceptions of what we are about as writers... > >if classism exists, then i take it class too exists, right?... i mean, >there *are* economic classes, right?... and one's entrance into---or >exclusion from---such classes is not entirely within one's (individual) >control, yearn or aspire or endeavor or resist as one may-----right?... (i >won't go into that class item most frequently discussed hereabouts---that >of the shifty-ness of class markers)... > >ok: if i aspire, say, to $60K per annum (among other aspirations) i >probably better figure on doing something besides just writing poetry, >right?... > >(oh hey---i'm not ashamed to say i aspire to $60K/yr either, anymore than i >am of aspiring to write poetry)... > >further, if i decide to write poetry, whatever my economic aspirations, >this latter decision will impinge upon my life *somehow*, right?... given >that money doesn't grow on trees, i might find---in all likelihood, i >probably will find---that the demands relating to making ends meet do not >coincide, neatly or productively (at least, not all of the time, perhaps >not most of the time), with the demands of writing... right?... > >or to borrow from williams (_paterson_ book iii, part ii), albeit to my own >class-specific ends: > > The writing is nothing, the being > in a position to write (that's > > where they get you) is nine tenths > of the difficulty; seduction > > or strong arm stuff. The writing > should be a relief, > > relief from the conditions > which as we advance become -- a fire, > > a destroying fire. For the writing > is also an attack and means must be > > found to scotch it -- at the root > if possible. So that > > to write, nine-tenths of the problem > is to live. > >spoken by an m.d., yep... so, everything in my life (in *my* life, mind you >david) tells me that "to live" is, in an important and (again) utterly >urgent sense [the one having to do with earning a living such that doing >same supports my writing---which in my view i deal with on a daily basis], >an economic issue... hence (if i may) a class issue... > >none of this is absolute or inevitable, no, and surely some of this is a >matter of emphasis (among other things)... but in some sense one might >observe that *it may as well be* absolute and inevitable, david... b/c >that's how the world is constructed, no?---or so it seems to yours truly... >and if it seems so---to me, e.g.---sometimes and in some ways (at least) it >probably *is* so, ain't it?... and that it seems so is, at least, itself a >mark of the classism to which you refer, yes?... > >unless i'm hallucinating, i mean, and unless i've been hallucinating for lo >these many years... always a possibility, sure... > >BUT i'm not sure, in all, why you would resist the class issue as a >writing/publishing issue, in the very terms kathy lou has introduced... i >don't think the "urgency" i point to suggests evangelical fervor, either, >and for that matter, i didn't 'hear' same in kathy lou's posts... in all, >the effect of yours and others' resistance on this count, it seems to me, >is to move "us" away from a willingness to deal with class specifics (and >associated complexities, incl. btw intimacies of various sorts, as well as >this question of how the biz of poetry relates to the practice of same)... >that is, resistance here, even outright skepticism, has the effect of >helping to shut down what appears to me to be an entirely reasonable and >entirely necessary exchange (and of course you're not alone in such >resistance either---i mean, if i'm picking on you a bit here, and i am, i >could as well have picked on stephen ellis, pleased to make your >acquaintance stephen)... > >: we can, some few of us, just get on with it without your participation >as such, i know... hence in no sense is your resistance to be understood as >the "final word" or some such (anymore than is *this* post to be taken as a >hostile intervention)... but as class is, like classism, difficult to >discuss for many of us (though perhaps not for you), we're just as likely >to say to ourselves, when greeted by such skepticism, *why bother?*... >again, disagreement is one thing, but some of what passed before my eyes of >late appeared to me either to be dismissive of kathy lou's concerns, or to >be asking of kathy lou that she *defend* her assertions (stephen's opener >"hits a particular nail square on the head, but doesn't drive it anywhere" >a case of the latter, i think, and your "[t]his unfounded belief >perpetuates itself in not having these opportunities become manifest" >heading distinctively toward the former)... > >and if this post provokes a "why bother?" reaction in you, david (or >stephen), my apologies---and i mean it... as in so many recent exchanges >"around here," it just seems to me that the conversation has become >unnecessarily contentious precisely when a bit less skepticism and a bit >more goodwill might have produced some insights, and might have drawn (some >of) us a bit closer together in the process, if only for a moment... > >i only wish i could have said all this with sense of humor intact... > >best, > >joe > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 17:34:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: Re: MLA panel on "The Performed Text" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what city please Susan Vanderborg wrote: > A MLA convention panel on "The Performed Text: Toward a Post-Poetics for the New Millennium" that might be of interest to some of your subscribers has been listed incorrectly in the MLA convention program. > > The correct date and time for session 455 should be: > > Tuesday, December 28th, 8:30-9:45, the Burnham room in the Hyatt Regency hotel. > > (Right now it is listed incorrectly at that same time but on Wed. 29th) > > The session features Michael Davidson's discussion of the gestural performances of Aaron Williamson and other deaf poets, Ming-Qian Ma's study of visual and acoustic topography in Christian Bok's Crystallography, and Susan Vanderborg's discussion of Cells of Release by visual artist Fiona Templeton. > > There will be a signing interpreter at the panel. -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:41:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Re: Ochs/Hejinian/Dragomoschenko Collaboration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those living in chilly western New York, northern Pennsylvania, eastern Ohio, southern Ontario, etc.: > LETTERS NOT ABOUT LOVE, an hour long 16mm film based on a five year > correspondence between the poets, features a striking score by Larry Ochs > with additional music by Sergey Kuryokhin, glorious photography by James > Livingston, and is narrated by actors Lili Taylor and Victor Nord. will be shown next Wednesday, 1 December @ 4 pm at the Center for Fine Arts Screening Room North Campus of SUNY Buffalo Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 10:14:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: Top dollar urine sing-a-long (renga) In-Reply-To: <19991108183642.91104.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Top dollar urine sing-a-long wonderul--and yes--I consider Cotton Mather too then. The Captivity narratives--tho not verse--and certainly a strange poem or two by "anonymous" I've found on "the drunken spirit" :b I will watch the proposed renga & guess that I will be, first, deleting a lot, & maybe , second, setting: poetics-list no mail until it's over - _collaborative_ verbal spillage & seepage soon got tedious last time out -- after about a week -- I'd hopefully suggest a renga go on a renga list Absolutely, yes. :p Anyone interested agreeing to take on the renga thing as a side project to the list I'm anxious to see what comes of it best, Chris poetics list moderator yes a: "What is certain is that the renga's occlusion of other conversation became tedious after a time" To be continued by Grant Jenkins on subsubpoetics if he so desires. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:41:19 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: BoogBeat: Davis/Koch, Wilk/Stroffolino, Troupe/Zinc Bar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain BoogBeat: Five Days in the City, November 10-14, 1999: Jordan Davis, Kenneth Koch, James Wilk, Chris Stroffolino, Quincy Troupe, Wayne Koestenbaum, and Taylor Mead Wed. 11/10/99: Jordan Davis and Kenneth Koch at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church BoPoFest chieftain Aaron Kiely's just bought a used Geo from someone he knows in Northampton, and plans many NYC visits now that he can just car-bop over. But as he readies to head to PoProj for tonight's Davis and Koch reading, discovers the breaks need work, and $200 later finds himself on a Peter Pan bus, with potpourri air forced in every 15-minutes and the movie The Rock on seven TV screens throughout the 50 seat couch, the volume constant--"I had to watch fuckin' Ed Harris be macho for two hours"--and he makes it to my Chelsea studio in time to drop-off one bag, as we grab some Djarums and three slices, before we enter Parish Hall. Everyone likes Jordan Davis, so we'd all plan on hitting his readings anyway, but this being a Wednesday night at the Church, and the chance to see Koch, too, brings the poets out in droves. The PoProj troika of Ed Friedman, Marcella Durand, and Anselm Berrigan, are all in attendance, Prageeta Sharma is taking cash at the door, and scattered throughout are Drew Gardner, Ron Padgett, Douglas Rothschild, Eddie Berrigan, Kristin Prevallet, Jeni Olin, and a late-arriving Kimberly Lyons. Mitch Highfill, back to the Project to coordinate the Wednesday night series this year, introduces Jordan first. Jordan always solid, delivers wicked lines that are made even stronger by his clean-cut , straightman good looks, and matter-of-fact reading style. Here are my favorite lines: "purpose in her Pumas"; "my heart isn't sick, it's just overdressed"; "take me to your massive mermaid"; and the plain evil: "you look telephone pretty." Aaron and I quick-smoke with Prageeta outside during the break, and she heads back to the table, as I show him where Vice President Daniel Tompkins may be spending eternity. I sit on the floor, stage right, to take some photos of Koch alongside Jordan and his wife, stay there, my knees splayed in what we probably don't call Indian style anymore, as Koch's grandson starts throwing a plastic water cup, grabbing it and tossing it again, toward the area right in front of the lectern behind which his grandpa is delivering his poetry. The boy's father, sitting on a meditation mat, grabs his son's attention--boy can't be more than five-years-old--and writes math problems into his notebook to quiet him from crumbling the plastic cup. The boy answers every problem right, his dad doing the math slower than the little one who figures half of the answers out in his head. Koch reads poems to his army days, marijuana, and his Jewishness, the latter hitting home solid. His grandson took me away from note taking, but one line from "to Jewishness" that brought some giggles of the nervous kind, told of young Koch in a World War Two foxhole, his comrade yelling that "Those fucking Jews are all back inside, you don't see no fucking Jews in the foxhole, " as Koch decides to repress his Jewish identity. After reading, chat with Kim Lyons and friend, try to talk them into going to the Grassroots on St. Mark's for drinks, though the babysitter is home watching Kim and Mitch's little one, now three. So Aaron and I head over, as the Davises all head to dinner with Jordan's folks and Jordan says he'll see us in 45 minutes. At Grassroots the Berrigans, Rothschild, Prevallet, and the rest drink and schmooze. Mitch and Kim make it over for one drink that becomes two or three, as he tells me about the time he saw the Beatles in Memphis when he was a boy, as we talk Elvis Costello and poetry, Mitch ripping my head wide open with his thoughts. Explosive editor Katy Lederer's there too, and I introduce her to Aaron before she heads to the outer boroughs. Aaron and I walk Jeni Olin home to the Chelsea Hotel on this unusually warm autumn night, and she mentions Boulder and reminds me we met over my postcard project during Naropa summer 1997. Aaron's bladder is about to explode halfway through out 30-minute walk, so Jeni invites us in to use her bathroom. First time in Chelsea, as I scope art covered walls as Aaron emerges refreshed, before we say bye, get a pint of Haagen Daz and talk shit half the night while I show him pubs he's never seen before. Thurs. and Fri. 11/11-12/99: Poet-musicians: James Wilk and Chris Stroffolino Hit Luna Lounge on Ludlow Street to catch the return of Fatstick editor James Wilk's band Imaginary Numbers. I saw what was supposed to be their first and last show here last August, right before their bass player headed off to Texas for college. But here they are again, with a new bass player who's pulled the band together. They're no longer mumbling their unfinished lyrics; the vocals are mixed above the instruments so you can hear the witty lyrics about Moses, the World Cup, and gravity; and they seem to be having a whole lot more fun. Next night head with poet Joanna Fuhrman to see her roommate Chris Stroffolino's band play loft party in Greenpoint. Walk over to West Street and discover insane view of the city, Chrysler Building shining even more in black sky than it reflects in sunlight, and we get there way early, 10:15 for a show slated for 10, as Strof tells Joanna, "What are you doing here so early? Don't you know nothing starts on time in the city?" We head out with some others to grab some beer at the corner store, actually called that, and it looks like some chunk of middle America that got lost in Brooklyn, as I buy some Dos Equis and we head back. More people are filtering in, and eventually the loft is packed, as I walk across the stage and out onto the roof to see the skyline and escape the crowd. I only know Joanna and Chris, not a single poet in the crowd other than us three, "A good thing" Stroffolino says with a smirk after the show when I tell him this, and we laugh. The band, Volumen, with Chris on keyboards, is a Britpop blast straight outta 1964, as they wear dark, solid ties, and collared shirts. They sound great, but the vocals are way down in the mix, and you can't understand a thing the lead singer is saying. After one song, a friend ambles over to the vocalist, as he crouches down, and a few seconds he later he does some adjusting and voila, we can hear the vocals a bit better, though still not perfect. Joanna says the band sounds much better than the last time they played, and she's proud of/for Chris. The line's 10-deep for the one bathroom in the loft, so I head to the street and 5-beer pee in the overgrowth, before grabbing the G train home. Sun. 11/14/99: Quincy Troupe at Tribes Gallery; Wayne Koestenbaum and Taylor Mead at the Zinc Bar After taking six-year-old niece Michelle to McDonald's breakfast where we sit in front car of a choo-choo train as she dips her pancakes in syrup and I drink ok decaf, before she reads to me in Barnes and Noble's kids room where she tells me that her mother, my sister, doesn't want her getting anymore character books, but she insists on me getting her a Rugrats Thanksgiving book, until a phone call to her mom reveals she already owns it, and so I get her a nice Chanukah book instead, I subway home, skipping Jewish sports panel at Holocaust museum, head to home for downtime, before calling Wanda Phipps to come see Quincy Troupe at Tribes Gallery on 3rd between Avenues C & D, up the block from where my dad was born--across the street from where the Nuyorican Poets Café now rests--on a kitchen table nearly 70 years ago. I call Wanda back and tell her it's a reading, not just a book party, because I know she's not into hitting readings right now. And a few minutes later get a call from her that she's not going to go. Quincy is one of my favorite writers, a poet whose words bop like the music of his old St. Louis neighborhood, where Chuck Berry was living and playing right up the block from Troupe. Walk up tenement steps into Tribes apartment/gallery to see Eliot Katz and Long Shot magazine editor Danny Shot who silent hello wave. Catch last coupla poems before Quincy talks for half-hour or so on poetry, Miles Davis--"Miles told me once 'I'm gonna knock your head off,' and I said, 'Shit, you're what, 5'8" 150, I'm 6'2" 220, that ain't happening so shut the fuck up.' 'I was a boxer in the …' and Quincy waves his hand derisively and goes 'Yeah, yeah.'"; and Code, the new lifestyle magazine for black men he's editing during his year-long sabbatical from teaching. The line is long to say hi and get his new Coffee House Press book signed, so I wait on the side, trade zines with Anna May from Tribes, and then say hello to Quincy, who places me back at Naropa, outside on the iron tables, eating lunch and talking poetry. I have him sign Booglits for archives, first issue with him on the cover, and fourth one, on baseball, with his "Poem for My Father" inside, about his dad, the third greatest Negro League's catcher ever, and the league's chief archivist, each of which I've given him before but he says "I've never seen this one, or this one either," before I hit him up to do a limited edition chapbook. Split at 5:15pm to meet cousin for Kosher Indian food in Gramercy Park, but answering machine call says plans are off, so I head to Two Boots for a mushroom-and-peppers slice, before busing over to the Zinc Bar for Taylor Mead gig. Taylor always entertains me, whether at the annual New Year's reading at St. Mark's Church or on-line at the Chase Manhattan ATM on Broadway just above Houston. Get to Zinc real early, 6:30 for 6:37 reading (Lorber-time), drop stuff on couch in front of where the mic will be set-up, and wait for the crowd to gather, as the readings here never begin before 7pm. Lungfull editor Brendan Lorber shows up about 15 minutes later, and I tell him he should put together a Zinc Bar Reader like the KGB Bar did for their reading series, and 10 minutes after that his co-curator Douglas Rothschild and him are talking near the sound equipment about the yet to arrive Taylor Mead. "I talked to him on Wednesday," Brendan says. A few minutes later Taylor shows up. I remind David Cameron as we order drinks at the bar--red wine for him a Vodka gimlet straight up for me--that we were the first two readers at the Zinc Bar, back in March of 1997 when the series left Biblio's Books, and he says he can't remember that, and that I have a good memory. I'd heard of Wayne Koestenbaum before, but didn't know his work at all. It's what's nice about the Zinc Bar series, this colliding of all sorts of names and schools of writing, where most of the time I don't even know the authors, but all of the time I end up hearing good work. Tonight's no different, as now I feel like I want to be a Wayne Koestenbaum groupie. He reads pop culture-laced pieces, dropping mentions of dead ’50s icons, opera stars, and mythical characters, taking us into this world inhabited by the beautiful, the dead, and his varying forms. The entire time, Lisa Lubasch's face, always glowing, is damn near incandescent , her dim hysterical reflection glistening back to me in the mirrors alongside the reader. Taylor Mead has his boombox with him, always. He comes up to the stage with his cane. "I walk 60 blocks a day with this thing," he says. Brendan offers to get him a stool as Taylor tries to configure himself and his work behind the music stand, dropping poems on the couch next to Brendan, reading catty, but good, work about Warhol and how he treated Taylor and the other superstars in the Factory and an ode to the century. His memory is perfect, as he recants stories of old films and interactions, of letters to The Village Voice in response to critics who say they don't want to see two hours of Taylor Mead's ass on the screen, and then how he and Andy made their next movie "Taylor Mead's Ass," and of Giorno's "Sleep" actually being only 10 minutes long, but being looped endlessly. Brendan helps Taylor turn pages, and after one piece, Taylor asks Brendan to put his finger right here, pointing to a page behind the music stand. As Brendan places his finger there, Taylor goes "Oh, you bad boy," a mischievous look in his ruffled brow, as everyone laughs, before Taylor reads one last piece, his music blaring some sort of Charleston-sounds, as the crowd asks for an encore, and he delivers it one more time, this time changing the spring to winter. I say quick hello to Jen Robinson, her hair now real long after a year plus of MFA study at Brooklyn College, before she heads off to Brooklyn with Cameron, and chat with Lee Ann Brown for a moment to give her a December 1 deadline for her year 2000 calendar, and then head to the door. I say hello to Koestenbaum, as he, his boyfriend and Taylor chat over drinks at the bar, tell him I am a Kirschenbaum--cherry tree in German-- what is a Koestenbaum? Chestnut tree he says, as I smile, wave and split. As ever, David ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 02:36:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jenho@MINDSPRING.COM Subject: Ochs/Hejinian/Dragomoschenko Collaboration This came to me from the filmmaker Jacki Ochs, thought some of y'all might be interested. The film script is edited down from hundreds of pages of correspondence between Hejinian and Dragomoschenko, not unproblematically, but definitely interestingly. And to hear Lily Taylor's voice speaking Lyn Hejinian's words is truly strange. Smooches, Jen * Dear friends and colleagues, LETTERS NOT ABOUT LOVE, a unique film collaboration between artists Lyn Hejinian (U.S. poet), Arkadii Dragomoshchenko (Russia, poet) and Jacki Ochs (U.S., filmmaker) will be featured at the Musuem of Modern Art's biennial presentation titled FilmFest - films from the independent states of the former Soviet Union. This is the only American directed film in the series. FilmFest will be paying tribute to Aleksandr Pushkin on his 200th birthday anniversary. LETTERS NOT ABOUT LOVE, an hour long 16mm film based on a five year correspondence between the poets, features a striking score by Larry Ochs with additional music by Sergey Kuryokhin, glorious photography by James Livingston, and is narrated by actors Lili Taylor and Victor Nord. The film has won several awards including Best Documentary Feature from the South by Southwest Film Festival. Dates are: Tuesday, December 7th at 2:30PM Friday December 17th at 7PM. Address: 11 West 53rd St., Roy & Niuta Titus Theatre #1 Following are a few quotes on the film "Letters Not About Love" Michael Ondaatje author of "The English Patient" "The delicate merging of private maps - home, grandmother, local weather - in this intimate and formal correspondence of two poets, one in America, one in Russia. How a kettle whistles there, how a sun floats here. A beautiful and moving film." Laurie Anderson performance artist - composer "Letters Not About Love" is a gorgeous meditation on the mysteries of language and place. Using a written exchange between two writers who riff on definitions of one and two syllable words, Ochs has created a fascinating double portrait of the United States and Russia, which emerges through evocative images and stories. Jacki Ochs has made a truly beautiful and original film." Cleveland Plain Dealer "By the end of this short 60 minute film, a deep intimacy has been established ? between the poets, between their cultures, and between film and audience." Austin Chronicle "..a rare embrace of the political and the personal...a true and literal fusion of cinema and poetry." For more info. A Human Arts Association Production/54 Greene St. #4A/NYC NY 10013/tel.212-343-0078 fax. 212-226-2441 e mail. jackio@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:05:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Opinion / Speedfactory (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (From trAce online writing community) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:20:51 +0000 From: trace@ntu.ac.uk To: sondheim@panix.com Subject: Opinion / Speedfactory OPINION "With my finger on the mouse I'm actively engaged in a physical relationship with what happens on the screen. I'm transfixed in the light of the monitor's path. A one-to-one contact, a to-and-fro 'relationship' that is unique, personal and seductive." Brought to you in conjunction with NOW99, Michael Atavar talks about Intimacy in the latest Opinion. Why not let us know your opinion! http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/opinion/ SPEEDFACTORY Speedfactory is a fast, collaborative email writing project which will take place on 24 November, and is open to all trAce members. Writers from around the world will email exactly 50 words to a partner, who will respond with exactly 50 words back within 20 minutes. Speedfactory will be co-ordinated by trAce Writer-in-Residence Bernard Cohen and Terri-ann White (author of Deep Immersion), and is based on a project they've undertaken with critic McKenzie Wark and poet John Kinsella. If you are interested, please email Bernard at bernard.cohen@ntu.ac.uk with details of your available times on the 24 November wherever you are in the world. If possible please translate into Greenwich Mean Time. Bernard and Terri-ann will try to pair you with someone on another continent. Alternatively, if you would prefer to name your partner, please include this in your email - but do make sure you have their permission to do so! Very close to the day, you will receive a trigger word. Then, as 24 November 1999 disappears from Earth forever, email the outcomes to Bernard... More information at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/cohen/speedfactory.htm Deep Immersion can be found at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/deep/ trAce Online Writing Community Nottingham Trent University Clifton Lane Nottingham NG11 8NS ENGLAND Tel: ++44 (0)115 9486360 (direct line) Fax: ++44 (0)115 9486364 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk trace@ntu.ac.uk ___________________________________ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please email trace@ntu.ac.uk with 'unsubscribe' as the subject line. ____________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 14:14:56 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: TEST_COERCION_TO_CHAR.OUT Comments: To: nikolay@fas.harvard.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was blind copied on this. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 01:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lee ann brown Subject: email change + soft skull readings Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Listers: Please note: My email has changed from leeann@ferro-luzzi.org to leeann@tenderbuttons.net Also Here's a forward: >SOFT SKULL PRESS ANNOUNCES TWO READINGS > > >Soft Skull Ladies >November 19 >@ Bluestockings Books >172 Allen St. >7 pm >Free > > >Nora Ruth Roberts reads from her debut novel Ripe Tomatoes, the tale of a >New Jersey tomato-growing commune. > >With Cynthia Nelson, Lee Ann Brown, Maggie Nelson, and Cat Tyc. > >Soft Skull @ Revolution Books >November 22nd >9 W.19th St. >7 pm >Free > > >William Upski Wimsatt (author of Bomb the Suburbs and No More Prisons), two >books about hip-hop and social activism in the city. > >Nora Ruth Roberts reads from Ripe Tomatoes. > >Seth Tobocman, artist/author/co-founder of World War Three Illustrated will >read from the recent You Don't Have to Fuck People Over To Survive. > > > >For more info, please contact >Cat Tyc >http://www.softskull.com >kittygltr@hotmail.com > > > >Sander Hicks >Editorial >Soft Skull Press, Inc. > >MAIL: 98 Suffolk Street #3A >STUDIO: 100 Suffolk, basement >NYC, NY 10002-3366 > >FAX: 212 673 0787 >www.softskull.com >VOX: 212 673 2502 > > > Z Y X W V U T S R Q P O N M L K J I H G F E D C B A Lee Ann Brown Tender Buttons PO Box 13, Cooper Station New York, NY 10276 212.529.6154 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:45:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: Re: class, gender etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fair enough, Michael. But then again, it's a question of degree. Though some of us have certainly managed "experience hunger" in the US, some of us have also encountered forms of poverty elsewhere that are quite simply never seen in this country, and are impossible for most Americans even to imagine. Cheers, Philip Nikolayev At 11:52 PM 11/12/99 -0500, Michael Neff wrote: >Dear Masha, > >Go to Kentucky, look around, start there, see poor, dirt floors, rags and >rust. "all be said"? I don't think so. There are tens of millions of poor in >this country. > >Commence to ciphering. > >MN > >Maria L. Zavialov wrote: > >> Discussing class it's good to remember WHERE this discussion is taking >> place. Place, I mean a geographic spot or location, is >> another aspect (like gender) that should be introduced into the discussion. >> I mean location in terms of its economic situation. Thus the inhabitants of >> the US can all be said to belong to the upper class if viewed from a poor >> Asian country. One should try hard to stay hungry in the US, isn't one? The >> same goes for different locations within one and the same country. Like in >> Russia a native of Moscow coming to St. Petersburg is automatically moving >> one step up on the social ladder. And when he comes to a small >> provincial town he is already two steps up. And in a village... oh, in a >> village he (yes, he) is a guru. >> Masha Z. > >-- > > > > >================================ >Web Del Sol >http://webdelsol.com >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:45:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Re: question In-Reply-To: <007d01bf2eed$df077d00$d746ccd1@default> from "hassen" at Nov 14, 1999 05:16:12 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit | | hello al ~ | | if/when you get a moment, would you please direct me to info on the philly | poetics list? i was told to look on the writers house page - which i did to | no avail. | | thanks in advance/apologies for taking your time, | hassen | I added Hassen, and would point out to all those on the list: if you are in the Philadelphia area we'd be happy to add you to the Writers House-based discussion list for poets. --Al Filreis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:50:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Judy Schwartz Subject: Re: HIGHWIRE READING In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Can you tell me if the highwire reading is at 3 o'clock or 8 o'clock this week? Thanks! --Judy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:24:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: [Cuba SI] FW: To Leonard Peltier from Subcomandante Marcos (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Throughout November, Native American from around the country will gather in Washington, D.C. to demand that President Clinton grant executive clemency to Leonard Peltier, a Native American leader who has been in prison for 23 years for a crime he did not commit. In April Amnesty International declared Mr. Peltier a political prisoner an= d called for his immediate and unconditional release. Over the years, humanitarian figures such as the Reverend Jesse Jackson, the South African Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu, and the Dalai Lama have made similar calls. Now, the EZLN and Subcomandante Marcos are echoing the plea for Mr. Peltier's freedom. To learn more about the details of Mr. Peltier's case, why so many people are petitioning for his freedom, and how you can help, go to the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee's website at http://members.xoom.com/freepeltier/index.html Subject: To Leonard Peltier from Subcomandante Marcos Ej=E9rcito Zapatista de Liberaci=F3n Nacional M=E9xico October of 1999 For: Leonard Peltier From: Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos Leonard, Through the NCDM and Cecilia Rodriguez we extend greetings from the men, women, children and elders of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation. Cecilia has told us about the grave injustice the North American judicial system has committed against you. We understand that the powerful are punishing your spirit of rebellion and your strong fight for the rights of indigenous people in North America. Stupid as it is, the powerful believe that through humiliation, arrogance and isolation it can break the dignity of those who give thoughts, feelings= , life and guidance to the struggle for recognition and respect for the first inhabitants of the land over whom, the vain United States has risen. The heroic resistance that you have maintained in prison, as well as the broad movement of solidarity, that your case and your cause have motivated in the U.S. and the world reveal their mistake. Knowing of your existence and history, no woman or man if they are honest and conscious can remain silent before such a great injustice. Nor can they remain still in front of a struggle, which like all that is born and grows from below, is necessary, possible, and true. The Lakota, a people who have the honor and fortune to have you among their blood, have an ethic that recognizes and respects the place of all people and things, respects the relations that mother earth has with herself and mother living things that live and die within her and outside of her. An ethic that recognizes generosity as a measure of human worth, the walk of our ancestors and our dead along the paths of today and tomorrow, women and men as part of the universe that have the power of free will to choose path= s and seasons, the search for harmony and the struggle against that which breaks and disorders it. All of this, and more that escapes because we are so far away, has a lot to teach the =93western=94 culture which steers, in = North America and in the rest of the world, against humanity and against nature. Probably the determined resistance of Leonard Peltier is incomprehensible t= o the Powerful in North America, and the world. To never give up, to resist, the powerful call this =93 foolishness=94. But the foolish are in every cor= ner of the world, and in all of them, resistance flourishes in the fertile ground of the most ancient history. In sum, what the powerful fail to understand is not only Peltier=92s resistance, but also the entire worlds, and so they intend to mold the planet into the coffin the system represents, with wars, jails and police officers. Probably, the powerful in North America think that in jailing and torturing Leonard Peltier, they are jailing and torturing one man. And so they don=92t understand how a prisoner can continue to be free, whil= e in prison. And they don=92t understand how, being imprisoned, he speaks with so many, = and so many listen. And they don=92t understand how, in trying to kill him, he has more life. And they don=92t understand how one man, alone, is able to resist so much, = to represent so much, to be so large. =93Why?=94 the powerful ask themselves and the answer never reaches their e= ars: Because Leonard Peltier is a people, the Lakota, and it is impossible to keep a people imprisoned. Because Leonard Peltier speaks through the Lakota men and women who are in themselves and in their nature the best of mother earth. Because the strength that this man and this people have does not come from modern weapons, rather it comes from their history, their roots, their dead= =2E Because the Lakota know that no one is more alive than the dead. Because the Lakota, and many other North American Indian people, know that resisting without surrender not only defends their lives and their liberty, but also their history and the nature that gives them origin, home, and destiny. Because the great ones always seem so small to those who can not see the history that each one keeps inside. Because the racism that now governs can only imagine the other and the different in jail=85or in the trashcan, where two Lakota natives were found last month, murdered, in the community of Pine Ridge. This is justice in North America: those who fight for their people are in jail, those who despise and murder walk unpunished. What is Leonard Peltier accused of? Not of a crime he didn=92t commit. No. He is accused of being other, of bei= ng different, of being proud to be other and different. But for the Powerful, Leonard Peltier=92s most serious =93crime=94 is that = he seeks to rescue in the past, in his culture, in his roots, the history of his people, the Lakota. And for the powerful, this is a crime, because knowing oneself with history impedes one from being tossed around by this absurd machine that is the system. If Leonard Peltier is guilty, than we are all guilty because we seek out history, and on its shoulders we fight to have a place in the world, a plac= e of dignity and respect, a place for ourselves exactly as we are, which is also, very much as we were. If the Indian people of the North and Indian people of M=E9xico, as well as the indigenous people of the entire continent, know that we have our own place (being who we are, not pretending to be another skin color, another tongue, another culture), what is left is that other colors that populate the entire world know it. And what is left is for the powerful to know it. So that they know it, and learn the lesson so well that they won=92t forget= , many more paths and bridges are needed that are walked from below. On these paths and bridges, you, Leonard Peltier, have a special place, the best, next to us who are like you. Salud, Leonard Peltier, receive a hug from one who admires and respects you= , and who hopes that one day you will call him "brother". Vale, and health to you and I hope that injustice disappears tomorrow, with yesterday as a weapon and today as a road. >From the mountains of the Mexican Southeast, Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos M=E9xico, October 1999 _________________________________________________________________ Global Exchange http://www.globalexchange.org To unsubscribe, email mexico-news-request@globalexchange.org with unsubscribe in the body of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval=85 It seems impossible, but it=92s not. Visit GetSmart.com=92s Credit Card Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1272 Cuba SI: http://www.egroups.com/group/cubasi/ Imperialism NO! Venceramos! Information and discussion about Cuba. Discussion of the path of Ernesto Che Guevara. -- eGroup Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/cubasi/?m=3D1 -- Free email groups at eGroups.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:24:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: The New Yorker magazine dated 8/22/99 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" on the stands now has, on page 189, instructions on voting in its "best books of 1999" contest, to be decided by readers. One can only vote once, should one choose to vote. The choices in poetry are: Of No Country I Know - David Ferry Vita Nova - Louise Gluck The Constructor - John Koethe Poems - J.H. Prynne The Pilot Star Elegies - Sherod Santos I can only urge you to vote, so that the range for next year's contest might be even greater -- Apparently you can also vote by calling 1-800-246-1400 or going to www.newyorker.com -- although I've tried neither. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:29:39 -0600 Reply-To: David Baptiste Chirot Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: [Y4M] Leonard Peltier FREEDOM MONTH Calendar - SUPPORT LEONARD! (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE LEONARD PELTIER FREEDOM MONTH The organizers of the month-long protest are in need of more blankets and food. Below is part of the schedule of activities for the rest of November: ************************************************************************* Saturday, November 13 Unity Day Free all political prisoners, stop racism, stop police brutality, respect the earth, dignity and respect for all life---Come listen to speakers from different organizations and movements who are coming together to help gain freedom for Leonard Peltier ************************************************************************* Sunday, November 14 Reading from Leonard Peltier=92s new book, My Life Is My Sun Dance=97Suzanne Harjo, Harvey Arden, and more TBA Monday, November 15 Indigenous Voices Arvol Looking Horse, Bear Lincoln, Billy Tayac, Suzanne Harjo and many more= =20 (TBA) will come to talk about the history and current issues facing Native= =20 Peoples Wednesday, November 17 Victims of FBI abuses Come here testimony from people from all walks of life who will retell their harrowing experiences with FBI abuses and misconduct--Speakers TBA Thursday, November 18 Still No Justice Thousands of petitions and letters of support to be delivered to the Clinton Administration Sunday, November 21 People of Faith for Justice Churches show support for Leonard Peltier Tuesday, November 23 Women for Justice The Indigenous Women=92s Network, Rigoberta Menchu, the Colorado Sisters,= =20 Jennifer Harbury, Jean Day, Pemina Yellow Bird, and more (TBA) come to spea= k=20 and show support for Leonard Peltier Wednesday, November 24 Gathering of the Drums Call to all Indigenous drum groups ************************************************************************* Thursday, November 25 CLOSING--Leonard Peltier Freedom Month--Vigil and closing prayer ceremony 5pm-8pm--come thank the fasters and show solidarity during the=20 "Thanksgiving" holiday. (Meanwhile--Plymouth Rock--Day of Mourning=20 sponsored by United American Indians of New England.) ************************************************************************* NOTE: The dates listed inside of the asterisks are important days to mobilize crowds. If you are able to come to DC during any part of November, please include one or more of these days in your schedule if=20 possible, and bring your friends. Every day of November will include a=20 morning prayer ceremony lead by David Chief, drumming, singing, and various= =20 other cultural activities. Every evening a candlelight vigil will be held unless other activities are being conducted at night. All activities listed will be conducted at the Ellipse Park (behind the White House), the Lafayette Park (In front of the White House), or at an=20 indoor location close by. We will release the times, speakers, exact locations and performers as plan= s=20 develop contact the LPDC for any questions or for more information. Alcohol and drugs will be prohibited. Leonard Peltier Defense Committee PO Box 583 Lawrence, KS 66044 785-842-5774 http://members.xoom.com/freepeltier/index.html FREE LEONARD PELTIER ! ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the hottest sports memorabilia or sporting goods=20 specials? eBay has thousands of trading cards, sports autographs=20 and collectibles.You never know what you might find at eBay!=20 http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1143 Stop the execution! New trial for Mumia! Youth & Students for Mumia www.peoplescampaign.org * npcny@peoplescampaign.org To subscribe or unsubscribe email: youth-4-mumia-owner@egroups.com eGroup Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/youth-4-mumia/ http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:44:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Fewell Subject: Re: class, gender etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/15/99 2:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, editor@WEBDELSOL.COM writes: << Dear Masha, Go to Kentucky, look around, start there, see poor, dirt floors, rags and rust. "all be said"? I don't think so. There are tens of millions of poor in this country. >> Let's specify here. Go to far Eastern Kentucky, Appalachia to be exact. The entire state is not comprised of the above picture. Aaron Keith ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:47:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Zauhar Subject: Re: The New Yorker magazine dated 8/22/99 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991115152410.007a8550@is.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Susan Wheeler wrote: > Of No Country I Know - David Ferry > Vita Nova - Louise Gluck > The Constructor - John Koethe > Poems - J.H. Prynne > The Pilot Star Elegies - Sherod Santos > > I can only urge you to vote, so that the range for next year's contest > might be even greater -- > > Apparently you can also vote by calling 1-800-246-1400 or going to > www.newyorker.com -- although I've tried neither. You can in fact vote from the website, though unfortunately there is no slot for "none of the above." Thank gods those weren't the only five books published this year. Dave Zauhar ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:46:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: Watten DuPlessis Writers House webcast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Not sure if I'm one of the lucky 35 but I'd like to peek in, Al . . . Joe Safdie -----Original Message----- From: Al Filreis [mailto:afilreis@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU] Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 8:33 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Watten DuPlessis Writers House webcast PhillyTalks at the Kelly Writers House with Barrett Watten & Rachel Blau DuPlessis Monday November 15 beginning at 6 PM eastern time will be webcast live. The first 35 people who respond to this invitation will be able to "connect" to the webcast signal--and then see and hear the program (and to pose questions or comments during the discussion). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - relevant links (for further information): PhillyTalks, founded & curated at the Writers House by Louis Cabri: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/phillytalks/ the Kelly Writers House: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/index.html fall 1999 schedule of live webcasts, including recordings of a conversation with Marjore Perloff & Bob Perelman on Stein, a reading by Shawn Walker, and a symposium on Williams's "To Elsie": http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ the Writers House calendar: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/calendar/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:55:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: Business, class, AMMIANO Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The majority of Americans will name themselves as "middle class" (despite external evidence to the contrary) which underscores the extent to which class is unnameable and invisible in this country. The homeless, the poor and elderly, the rural poor, the working poor are all examples of invisible classes. It's part of what makes it possible for the "what are you talking about class for -- you're an American so shut up" argument to arise repeatedly. Yes, we are definitely a "super power" "first world" nation, but inside our borders many live in "third world" conditions. See, for example, the infant mortality rate in inner cities. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ---------- >From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Business, class, AMMIANO >Date: Fri, Nov 12, 1999, 5:37 PM > >RD Levitsky writing from the Villa: > > >An anecdote: I once taught welfare recipients, through one of those >abominable BEGIN (END) programs. When discussing class, my students, many >of them told me they considered themselves middle class--as marked by their >housing and their possessions. > >I for one am of the leisure class -- or so my father would say. > >Love, >Rachel >-----Original Message----- > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:00:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Re: Business, class, access Comments: To: baratier@megsinet.net Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I still don't understand the statement you're trying to clarify, but I *do* think you're mis-reading and essentializing Mullen's essay. Mullen's writing around Hunt and Alexander explicates the ways in which their work "renders inoperative" assumptions about the category of "black poetry" which expect that "black writing" is (to quote again from Mullen) "constituted around the central idea of textualized orality, or 'the speakerly text'." (See also, Aldon Nielsen's excellent work _Black Chant_.) Hunt and Alexander's work also complicates and interrogates the notion of "black identity;" this doesn't mean that they don't write "about" class and race, or that they don't "mention the opposition." See Hunt, Local History: "In this was casualties multiply:one in four in prson, one in four unemployed, one in four with a habit, every square inch to be fought for. In the panic that is no solution, the police and the young guarantee one another employment; the ranks of each army swell" (38). This passage seems pretty clearly to "name" the "war at home" against African-American men, among other things. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ---------- >From: David Baratier >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Business, class, access >Date: Sat, Nov 13, 1999, 6:41 AM > >To clarify the statement "A force to work against without the naming >process supplies the energy without the denegrative state of reverse >labeling." I made earlier, I found this in the new Booglite, written by >Harryette Mullen: > >"The work of Erica Hunt and Will Alexander seems specifically designed >to render inoperative such assumptions [issues of class & race]. Their >work challenges conventional or reductive descriptions of "black poetry" >and "black identity," while confronting head-on the conventional >splitting of identity politics and black literary production from >aesthetic practices, innovations, and influences of literary >avant-gardes typically identified with Europe. While they certainly >differ from each other in style, ideological position, and in aesthetic >influences, both poets allow themselves a broad range of subject matter. >Alexander is especially eclectic and inclusive when it comes to choosing >topics for writing, from alchemy, philosophy, and religion to the >history of visual art. Hunt's poetry brings to the page a recognizably >urban female persona that eludes common racial stereotypes, while >Alexander's hermeticism and surrealism signal the continuing influence >of a historically international avant-garde." > >The writing without mention of the opposition, the writing which >neutralizes it, appears to have a powerful effect. I would be interested >learning about poetry which is class based that mentions the oppressor >in concrete terms, rather than not at all, and does so with out falling >into the triteness that often occurs in oppositional poetics. I can >think of a few, but very few. Joy Harjo's work, Martin Espada's _City of >Coughing and Dead Radiators_ most examples do not hold to multiple >readings in the way that Neidecker's work or Alexanders does. Rachel >Loden's new book is one of the only recent books I've read that directly >attacks the US socio-political situation and remains intact for multiple >readings. > >Jill, if you check back through my posts, I did not state that lack of >access to opportunities does not occur, I made pains to maintain my >writing in "I" based statements, when mass assumptions were made & I >knew they did not fit me, I went outside of these confines to include >some other individual writers. Never was there a "we" intended. I did >not address women & class, which is not an oversight, I do not have >personal experience and assume others here would address the subject. > > >Don Wellman (lilliput?) & Dodie bring up something that I wonder about, >having done it a lot myself, especially in grad school. The act of >overcompensation. Which seeing these posts together makes me wonder if >this truth of, as Dodie states, "working class guys [having] a harder >time assimilating into the middle class poetry world" is a section of >this overcompensation. And I too have found it "intolerable that some >people wish to rub my naivity in my face." The question from me is, >when does one cross this line of overcompensation on the page? >Inaccurate hearing of slang, use of the latinate, stating of the >opposition? > >And Joe Amato, I have always have admired your ability to get to the >core of the matter, to get something learnable from it. I'll make an >attempt to answer your post when there is more time, as, yes, it is a >difficult subject to discuss, & my time to write impinged by physical >labor today. > >As for David Larsen "Having no ambition myself to rise so high into 'the >upper eschelons' of >anything as to be unable to resist crapping on people a la Mr. >Baratier," who "volunteers to serve as this list's spokesperson for >lettuce-sorters --and, if need be, to pass your *civil* responses back >to >them." There seems to be an assumption that I made the lettuce sorting >comment which is not the case. And *civil*, such as this one? I hope >your aggression towards the target you believe me to be has made you >feel better. > >Be well > >David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:50:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: class, gender etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19991115144458.00bebf30@pop.fas.harvard.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII two issues to address-- first, any one can be a poet by that i mean--poetry knows no borders, among whom poetry comes to be an action it is by its nature unexpected i will give an illustration in the form of a story (and it's all true, as they say) a few years ago a friend sent me an article from the New Yorker magazine-- it was about the author's search for the place that Walt Whitman lived when he wrote the first edition of Leaves of Grass (and a wise person here notes how important place is) after much laborious research, the writer found the place he knocked on the door in excitement-- a large Rastafarian Jamaican answered the door-- the author said, do you know a great poet lived here? the Rastafarian answered--how do you know one doesn't live here now? to me, that states the fact of poetry, that exists, behind any door any fellow human, any eyes you look into--these are part or not part of our struggle to be free yet any eyes may hold in them poetry the action and the perception and the listening of poetry poetry may at times be the province of an elect--yet this is not true-- poetry is the province of the people poetry is the voice not in vain my second point, with permission Judge-- as they say-- there are areas in america as bad as any place go visit a reservation for example i spent a weekend with a dear friend here in Milwaukee last week--where he lives is like a Hell-- Leroi Jones wrote a great book about it--The System of Dante's Hell- you can get on a bus and see it-- really--it costs a dollar thirty five and you can see Hell- i've lived in 17 countries--and i never saw a worse place than america if you are Black, Latino, Indian, you know-- yet if we work, in our poems, may we bring hope for our peoples please believe me--poetry is not an esoteriscism, it is a form of action,a demand-- a demand to be free for all I hope you make an action this month for Leonard Peltier Send a message at least to the addresses I sent I am organizing an exhibit for Mr. Peltier here--please contribute Hence poetry is not in vain respectfully dave baptiste chirot On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Philip Nikolayev wrote: > Fair enough, Michael. But then again, it's a question of degree. Though > some of us have certainly managed "experience hunger" in the US, some of us > have also encountered forms of poverty elsewhere that are quite simply > never seen in this country, and are impossible for most Americans even to > imagine. > > Cheers, > Philip Nikolayev > > At 11:52 PM 11/12/99 -0500, Michael Neff wrote: > >Dear Masha, > > > >Go to Kentucky, look around, start there, see poor, dirt floors, rags and > >rust. "all be said"? I don't think so. There are tens of millions of > poor in > >this country. > > > >Commence to ciphering. > > > >MN > > > >Maria L. Zavialov wrote: > > > >> Discussing class it's good to remember WHERE this discussion is taking > >> place. Place, I mean a geographic spot or location, is > >> another aspect (like gender) that should be introduced into the discussion. > >> I mean location in terms of its economic situation. Thus the inhabitants of > >> the US can all be said to belong to the upper class if viewed from a poor > >> Asian country. One should try hard to stay hungry in the US, isn't one? The > >> same goes for different locations within one and the same country. Like in > >> Russia a native of Moscow coming to St. Petersburg is automatically moving > >> one step up on the social ladder. And when he comes to a small > >> provincial town he is already two steps up. And in a village... oh, in a > >> village he (yes, he) is a guru. > >> Masha Z. > > > >-- > > > > > > > > > >================================ > >Web Del Sol > >http://webdelsol.com > >LOCUS OF LITERARY ART ON THE WWW > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:55:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: Hunt quote correction Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Should read: "In this war casualties multiply: one in four in prison, one in four unemployed, one in four with a habit, every square inch to be fought for. In the panic that is no solution, the police and the young guarantee one another employment; the ranks of each army swell" (38). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:18:49 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Weekend in New Orleans (part 5) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > BERNADETTE > >at one point bernadette was talking about having her own cow for milk etc >when i walked into the dining room at camille's and i remember everyone >laughing a good bit about it > > well we do and its a lot better on your health than the pasturised/homogenized garbage thats foisted on our lot!!!pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:53:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: call for contributions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _mo' gumbo_ poetry/art broadside seeks contributions _mo' gumbo_ is a weekly zine loosely affiliated with Mocambo Coffee Mocambopo poetry readings and open mike session which happens every friday in Victoria B.C. we are into our tenth week wanted: poetry especially concrete concrete concrete concrete concrete && especially "pataphysical &&& especially post-language &&&& especially sound poetry texts sound poetry texts sound poetry texts sound poetry texts sound poetry texts &&&&&& especially found poetry texts &&&&&&& especially poetry theory texts &&&&&& especially experimental poetry texts &&&& especially visual poetry &&&&& art of any kind &&& && & & send it to: 2367 Central Ave. Victoria B.C. V8S 2S3 (imp press) ross priddle ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:01:40 +0000 Reply-To: toddbaron@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Baron /*/ ReMap Readers Organization: Re*Map Magazine Subject: Re: earliest american poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Zimmerman wrote: > > How about the Lenni-Lenape _Walum Olum_? > > > --Dan Zimmerman thanks for imput as to MYSTERY what about the above-- I'm lost! Todd Baron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:20:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Mayer/Machlin Reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BERNADETTE MAYER DAN MACHLIN read Thursday, November 18th, 7:30 p.m. @ The Dactyl Foundation for the Arts and Humanities 64 Grand Street New York City 212.219.2344 www.dactyl.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:50:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Once More, with the Usual Feeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Once More, with the Usual Feeling He's going to do it again, there will be some dismemberment, said Jenni- fer, said Julu, he's got all these attributions of talk, no one's really saying anything, he's trite, talking to himself, repetitious, it just goes on and on. Someone throws a bowling ball, said Alan, and down goes Julu. Someone said something about being really tired and hadn't they heard that before, anyway, those who were left? People left the reading "in droves," although Nikuko (kill her!) had no idea how many that was. We're all tired said Doctor Leopold Konninger; Nikuko, the "famous Russian ballet dancer" (as if we didn't know!), was unable to wind down. Alan thought the narra- tive demanded this continuous state of being-in-motion on one hand, and the Doctor Leopold, on the other, rather static and uncomfortable in his wooden chair on the wooden floor. For all I know, said Jennifer, a vowel change is imminent. It's a way of avoiding content, making a whole lot of noise. At this point the noise has become a signifier or trademark of Alan as well. It's as if everything conspires to guarantee the singularity of one text, written over and over again, each version equally correct, coherent, well-written, more or less, but without any sort of advance. Doctor Leopold Konninger, who came to me in a dream, said, Alan, concurs; I'm obsessed by these texts, I can't stop the texts, but it's almost as if they stop me. A quotation from an obscure source, always askew to the point, "They will come for me, / their faces screened, / mouth-banners high, silk carvings / in or around the square shrine. / They will come for me, / banners of grey faces, / dusk-cloths, embrochures of stone / in or around the square shrine. / Follow the earth's fold, / wary of legs caught in crevices, / in the air of autumn, / in the autumn air." He's going to do it again, these stupid stupid voices, these broken limbs, blind flutterings about the womb. He's going to keep on going, they're massive, they're useless, they're glued together by a constant intensity, the repetition of a monologue insistent on building the world from word. His interest in programming is 'peculiar,' the minor satisfaction of out- put to some extent not his own - but he short-circuits this by insisting on writing his own. Everywhere, his own. His tentacles, Jennifer, Julu, Nikuko, Alan, his own. His blunt texts, his own. Doctor Leopold Konninger resists any temptation towards either the analytic or the therapeutic, and Doctor Leopold Konninger has killed. _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:37:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: FW: [silence] Sonic Youth do Cage, Tenney, Wolff, et al Comments: To: AdM , "apg) karen" , "apg) maryanne del gigante" , bmcgrat@learnlink.emory.edu, cdunne@emory.edu, danalisalustig@hotmail.com, dlustig@dttus.com, "Hyman, Rebecca" , jbs@mmmlaw.com, mprejsn@law.emory.edu, ranprunty@aol.com, teddian@poetic.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x etc} (i pinched this off the silence list thinking some of you wd be interested) __________ > Sonic Youth's new recording, "Goodbye 20th Century" comes out today. > Unlike their more rock-oriented discs, this one contains pieces by > John Cage (Four^6 and Six), Christian Wolff (Edges and Burdocks), > Pauline Oliveros (Six for New Time for Sonic Youth), Takehisa Kosugi, > James Tenney, Yoko Ono, Cornelius Cardew, Nicolas Slonimsky, George > Maciunas, and Steve Reich. Guest performers include Wolff, Kosugi, > Jim O'Rourke, William Winant, Christian Marclay, and others. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:22:19 -0500 Reply-To: Robert Freedman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Freedman Subject: Texts: "Writing from the New Coast" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, Maybe I'm the last to have heard about Buffalo's Poetry Collections/Publications on the web, but I was amazed to find shrink-wrapped copies for sale of o-blek's "Writing from the New Coast." It's listed as out-of-print elsewhere (and it probably is), so if anyone's looking for a reasonably-priced copy of this anthology, go to: http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/units/pl/buffpubs/index.html There was no mention of scarcity of copies, so I'm assuming more are available. And ... there are other interesting, inexpensive items for sale. Cheers, Bob Freedman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:16:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: new anthology... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII given the editor, if you are interested in his editorial principles, you might look at _repression and recovery_ about the varieties (canonical and not so) of 20s through 45 american verse. -- Robert Corbett "I worried about the gap between rcor@u.washington.edu expression and intent, afraid the world Department of English might see a fluorescent advertisement University of Washington where I meant to show a face." -Rosemary Waldrop On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Joe Amato wrote: > just rec'd news in the mail of what looks to be yet another interesting, > and no doubt eyebrow raising, anthology, this time on oxford up no less (as > most of you know, the same press that dropped of late their contemporary > poetry series, despite public handwringing in the british parliament)... > forthcoming december 1999, just in time for mla, y2k, etc.: > > _anthology of modern american poetry_ > ed. cary nelson > 1200 pp., paper, $45 > > here's the list of the poets included (which is not meant to imply that all > poets receive equal treatment, page-wise): > > ------- > > walt whitman > emily dickinson > edwin markham > sadakichi hartmann > edgar lee masters > edwin arlington robinson > james weldon johnson > paul lawrence dunbar > lola ridge > amy lowell > gertrude stein > robert frost > alice dunbar-nelson > carl sandburg > vachel lindsay > wallace stevens > angelina weld grimke > georgia douglas johnson > mina loy > anne spencer > william carlos williams > ezra pound > h.d. > robinson jeffers > marianne moore > t. s. eliot > john crowe ransom > claude mckay > edna st. vincent millay > archibald macleish > dorothy parker > genevieve taggard > e. e. cummings > jean toomer > charles reznikoff > herman spector > v. j. jerome > john wheelwright > joseph freeman > lucia trent > louise bogan > harry crosby > hart crane > allen tate > melvin b. tolson > yvor winters > sterling a. brown > laura (riding) jackson > angel island: poems by chinese immigrants, 1910-1940 > kenneth fearing > langston hughes > arna bontemps > gwendolyn bennett > countee cullen > lorine neidecker > kay boyle > carl rakosi > aqua laluah > louis zukofsky > john beecher > kenneth rexroth > robert penn warren > stanley kunitz > joseph kalar > richard wright > theodore roethke > george oppen > edwin rolfe > charles olson > sol funaroff > elizabeth bishop > william everson > tillie lerner olsen > muriel rukeyser > robert hayden > charles henri ford > weldon kees > randall jarrell > japanese american concentration camp haiku, 1942-1944 > john berryman > william stafford > dudley randall > joy davidman > margaret walker > ruth stone > thomas mcgrath > robert lowell > gwendolyn brooks > william bronk > robert duncan > richard wilbur > mona van duyn > james dickey > denise levertov > anthony hecht > bob kaufman > maxine kumin > paul blackburn > frank o'hara > james merrill > allen ginsberg > robert creeley > robert bly > a. r. ammons > james wright > john ashbery > galway kinnell > w. s. merwin > anne sexton > philip levine > adrienne rich > gary snyder > gregory corso > etheridge knight > sylvia plath > henry dumas > amiri baraka > n. scott momaday > mark strand > audre lorde > charles wright > mary oliver > jayne cortez > lucille clifton > susan howe > michael s. harper > ishmael reed > lawson fusao inada > robert pinsky > welton smith > judy grahn > robert hass > sharon olds > louise gluck > michael palmer > paul violi > carolyn m. rodgers > ron silliman > adrian c. louis > yusef komunyakaa > ai > wendy rose > c. d. wright > jessica hagedorn > ray a. young bear > carolyn forche > garrett kaoru hongo > rita dove > jimmy santiago baca > anita endrezze > ana castillo > mark doty > harryette mullen > louise erdrich > sandra cisneros > thylias moss > patricia smith > marilyn chin > sesshu foster > martin espada > sherman alexie > > ------- > > quite some list, no?... i'm eager to understand the logic behind this > compilation (which seems self-evident in some cases, and far from same in > others), but will of course have to get my hands on a copy first... the > text is supported by a "rapidly evolving website, which now features pages > for more than 70 of the anthologized poets": > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps > > and editor nelson may be contacted if you wish to contribute to same: > > prof. cary nelson > 217 356-4640 (fax) > english dept. > university of illinois > 608 s. wright st. > urbana, illinois 61801 > usa > > /// > > joe > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:13:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: Watten DuPlessis Writers House Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:33:28 -0500 From: Al Filreis Subject: Watten DuPlessis Writers House webcast PhillyTalks at the Kelly Writers House with Barrett Watten & Rachel Blau DuPlessis Monday November 15 beginning at 6 PM eastern time will be webcast live. WOULD someone who attended this event be willing to give a brief report to those of us who did not? This is a Reading-Reports-on-Demand Request . <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:45:08 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Re: class, gender etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/16/1999 3:39:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, Visioncary@AOL.COM writes: << Let's specify here. Go to far Eastern Kentucky, Appalachia to be exact. The entire state is not comprised of the above picture. >> even more specifically, take a drive along Stinking Creek Road... jb.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:50:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: query,reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That Pamela Lu is reading tonight. 172 Allen, Bluestocking Bookstore, 8:00//corner with Stanton St. And wondering if someone has Brenda Shaughnessy's email, if she has one. thanks -----Original Message----- From: Joe Amato To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 11:32 AM Subject: new anthology... >just rec'd news in the mail of what looks to be yet another interesting, >and no doubt eyebrow raising, anthology, this time on oxford up no less (as >most of you know, the same press that dropped of late their contemporary >poetry series, despite public handwringing in the british parliament)... >forthcoming december 1999, just in time for mla, y2k, etc.: > >_anthology of modern american poetry_ >ed. cary nelson >1200 pp., paper, $45 > >here's the list of the poets included (which is not meant to imply that all >poets receive equal treatment, page-wise): > >------- > >walt whitman >emily dickinson >edwin markham >sadakichi hartmann >edgar lee masters >edwin arlington robinson >james weldon johnson >paul lawrence dunbar >lola ridge >amy lowell >gertrude stein >robert frost >alice dunbar-nelson >carl sandburg >vachel lindsay >wallace stevens >angelina weld grimke >georgia douglas johnson >mina loy >anne spencer >william carlos williams >ezra pound >h.d. >robinson jeffers >marianne moore >t. s. eliot >john crowe ransom >claude mckay >edna st. vincent millay >archibald macleish >dorothy parker >genevieve taggard >e. e. cummings >jean toomer >charles reznikoff >herman spector >v. j. jerome >john wheelwright >joseph freeman >lucia trent >louise bogan >harry crosby >hart crane >allen tate >melvin b. tolson >yvor winters >sterling a. brown >laura (riding) jackson >angel island: poems by chinese immigrants, 1910-1940 >kenneth fearing >langston hughes >arna bontemps >gwendolyn bennett >countee cullen >lorine neidecker >kay boyle >carl rakosi >aqua laluah >louis zukofsky >john beecher >kenneth rexroth >robert penn warren >stanley kunitz >joseph kalar >richard wright >theodore roethke >george oppen >edwin rolfe >charles olson >sol funaroff >elizabeth bishop >william everson >tillie lerner olsen >muriel rukeyser >robert hayden >charles henri ford >weldon kees >randall jarrell >japanese american concentration camp haiku, 1942-1944 >john berryman >william stafford >dudley randall >joy davidman >margaret walker >ruth stone >thomas mcgrath >robert lowell >gwendolyn brooks >william bronk >robert duncan >richard wilbur >mona van duyn >james dickey >denise levertov >anthony hecht >bob kaufman >maxine kumin >paul blackburn >frank o'hara >james merrill >allen ginsberg >robert creeley >robert bly >a. r. ammons >james wright >john ashbery >galway kinnell >w. s. merwin >anne sexton >philip levine >adrienne rich >gary snyder >gregory corso >etheridge knight >sylvia plath >henry dumas >amiri baraka >n. scott momaday >mark strand >audre lorde >charles wright >mary oliver >jayne cortez >lucille clifton >susan howe >michael s. harper >ishmael reed >lawson fusao inada >robert pinsky >welton smith >judy grahn >robert hass >sharon olds >louise gluck >michael palmer >paul violi >carolyn m. rodgers >ron silliman >adrian c. louis >yusef komunyakaa >ai >wendy rose >c. d. wright >jessica hagedorn >ray a. young bear >carolyn forche >garrett kaoru hongo >rita dove >jimmy santiago baca >anita endrezze >ana castillo >mark doty >harryette mullen >louise erdrich >sandra cisneros >thylias moss >patricia smith >marilyn chin >sesshu foster >martin espada >sherman alexie > >------- > >quite some list, no?... i'm eager to understand the logic behind this >compilation (which seems self-evident in some cases, and far from same in >others), but will of course have to get my hands on a copy first... the >text is supported by a "rapidly evolving website, which now features pages >for more than 70 of the anthologized poets": > > http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps > >and editor nelson may be contacted if you wish to contribute to same: > > prof. cary nelson > 217 356-4640 (fax) > english dept. > university of illinois > 608 s. wright st. > urbana, illinois 61801 > usa > >/// > >joe > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 12:29:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marla Jernigan Subject: Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On other lists that I have read or participated in new members have, somewhat formally, introduced themselves to the community. I've not seen any messages like those appear on this list, though I might have missed them, but anyway, let me introduce myself... My name is Marla Jernigan. I am a poet. I live in Atlanta, or Chamblee, which is much the same thing. I don't care too much for poetics as philosophical conquest and prefer to see both the things I do and the things I talk about as singular, worth reading for what they are more than what they remind one of. I would like to know what anyone out there thinks of symbolism, not the French movement but the actual practice and life in symbols, backchannel please. Thank You, Marla ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:08:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: [silence] Sonic Youth do Cage, Tenney, Wolff, et al In-Reply-To: <5D5C5C8C3A41D211893900A024D4B97CA64C86@md2.facstaff.oglethorpe.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Picked this up the other day - a double CD set for single CD price. Some of the performances are fairly "faithful," some range closer to "versions," with the longer pieces (esp. the Cardew and Cage, if I remember correctly) being, to my ears, the more interesting. Includes a recording of Coco Hayley Gordon Moore (Sonic Youth's own sonic youth) doing Yoko Ono's "Voice Piece for Soprano" in a mercifully short 12 seconds. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Lowther, John Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 7:38 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: FW: [silence] Sonic Youth do Cage, Tenney, Wolff, et al { p o e t i x etc} (i pinched this off the silence list thinking some of you wd be interested) __________ > Sonic Youth's new recording, "Goodbye 20th Century" comes out today. > Unlike their more rock-oriented discs, this one contains pieces by > John Cage (Four^6 and Six), Christian Wolff (Edges and Burdocks), > Pauline Oliveros (Six for New Time for Sonic Youth), Takehisa Kosugi, > James Tenney, Yoko Ono, Cornelius Cardew, Nicolas Slonimsky, George > Maciunas, and Steve Reich. Guest performers include Wolff, Kosugi, > Jim O'Rourke, William Winant, Christian Marclay, and others. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:12:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Scharf, Michael (Cahners -NYC)" Subject: Publishers Weekly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Poetry Forecasts used to run the last Monday of every month. Starting December 6th, it will run on the first Monday. So if, by chance, one were to pick up the Nov 29th issue, one would find no poetry reviews therein. And re: the New Yorker thing (vote Prynne), here's the PW "Best Books" Ted Joans's Teducation (Coffee House) Pamela Lu's Pamela: A Novel (Atelos) Ange Mlinko's Matinees (Zoland) Les Murray's Fredy Neptune (FSG) Adrienne Rich's Midnight Salvage (Norton) Aaron Shurin's A Paradise of Forms (Talisman) Cheers -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:25:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: small press announcements deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The deadline for this weeks small press publications listing is this Friday. Any publisher who wishes to have their recent publications listed, please send all relevant information to jerrold@durationpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:03:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII apparent report from Doctor Leopold Konninger i n t e r n a l l y , t h e r e w a s l i t t l e t i m e t o l o s e , s a i d D o c t o r L e o p o l d K o n n i n g e r ; i t w a s a n e m e r g e n c y s i t u a t i o n , s p a c e s b r o k e n a p a r t , t h e s e m b l a n c e o f r e a m s o f m a t e r i a l s , s q u a r e k i l o m e t e r s o f l i t e r a r y d e b r i s - n o t h i n g t o b e d o n e a b o u t i t - - - o n e l o o k s f o r w a r d a t b e s t t o t h e c o l l a p s e o f t h e s y m b o l i c , t e t h e r e d l i g h t l y , i f a t a l l , t o t h e m a t r i x o f o r d i n a r y t e x t s - l e t t e r s s w a l l o w e d b y t h e m i n d a s i f t h e y w e r e n ' t i n h e r e n t l y i n r e v o l t - D o c t o r L e o p o l d K o n n i n g e r c o n t i n u e d t o N i k u k o - d a n c i n g i n t h e r e m a i n i n g s p a c e - h e r p i r o u e t t e s i n a t e r r i t o r y g r o w i n g l i t e r a l l y b y l e a p s a n d b o u n d s - - - _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:16:04 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: class, gender etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >In a message dated 11/15/99 2:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, >editor@WEBDELSOL.COM writes: > ><< Dear Masha, > > Go to Kentucky, look around, start there, see poor, dirt floors, rags and > rust. "all be said"? I don't think so. There are tens of millions of >poor >in > this country. > >> > >Let's specify here. Go to far Eastern Kentucky, Appalachia to be exact. >The >entire state is not comprised of the above picture. > >Aaron Keith could be in any state where-ever in this world!!! seems the growing population of "below the poverty liners" is a inverse situ to the growing fancy to be a shareholder in this late part of this century!!!!//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:21:01 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Business, class, AMMIANO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >The majority of Americans will name themselves as "middle class" (despite Yes, we are definitely a "super power" "first world" nation, but >inside our borders many live in "third world" conditions. See, for example, >the infant mortality rate in inner cities. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Kathy Lou Schultz >yes and its the case here and that rate would not be anywhere near the >mortality rate of our aboriginal people here in australia /pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:25:24 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: class, gender etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: David Baptiste Chirot > > first, any one can be a poet > > about the author's search for the place that Walt Whitman >lived when he wrote the first edition of Leaves of Grass > (and a wise person here notes how important place is) > after much laborious research, the writer found the place > he knocked on the door in excitement-- > a large Rastafarian Jamaican answered the door-- > the author said, do you know a great poet lived here? > the Rastafarian answered--how do you know one doesn't live here >now? > > and thankfully there are a lot who don't need to write it, just live it//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:57:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: phonaesthetic In-Reply-To: <382765CF.6E7C9F28@idt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi folks, sorry for the one stop post but deadlines are crashing all around me and e-time is at a premium. i just want to thank all the kind sirs that offered me references for my research. one of the strange things that i've experienced since moving to newfoundland from continental north america are the hit and miss library searches. bernstein,s _close listening_ -yes. adalaide morris - no. a search for _site of sound_ produced this: Title: A comparison of site-to-site repeatability of two stationary measurement procedures for truck exterior sound levels [microform] / prepared for Transport Canada, Road and Motor Vehicle Safety ; prepared by : Harford, Kennedy, Wakefield Ltd. so, i never know what i'll get. as for the web-sites that daniel zimmerman suggested, Margo's Magical Letter Page is incredible and i can't get into the other one. thanks again, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:53:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: New Writing Series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone passing through Orono? Even if not, some of the info & links below might be of general interest. Steve Evans is coordinating this new reading series. His e-mail is Steven_Evans @umit.maine.edu. Sylvester New Writing Series Lee Ann Brown Ben Friedlander Thursday - 18 November 4PM 402 Neville Hall (Writing Center) Univ. of Maine, Orono, Maine >>Sponsored by the English Department Contact Steve Evans >>at (207) 581-3809 for more information >> >> >>Lee Ann Brown, 35 years old and a native of Charlotte, North Carolina, >>presently lives, writes, and teaches in New York City. Her first book >>Polyverse (Los Angeles: Sun & Moon, 1999) is a wild compendium of >>jubilant, erotic, tuneful, melancholy, manic, and altogether >>indispensable poems that weave into a polyphonic chorus the voices of >>Brown's "excitement sisters"-- from Emily Dickinson and Gertrude Stein >>to Liz Phair and the Breeders. A teacher long associated with the Jack >>Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa, Brown is also the >>publisher of Tender Buttons books, since the late-1980s a high-energy >>locus of feminist avant-garde writing by figures such as Bernadette >>Mayer, Harryette Mullen, Rosmarie Waldrop, Anne Waldman, Hannah Wiener, >>and Jennifer Moxley. Brown has recently completed work on a second >>collection, The Sleep That Changed Everything. A sample of Brown's work >>can be accessed on the web at >> >>http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR23.5/Equi.html >> >>Prior to joining the English Department faculty at the University of >>Maine this fall, Ben Friedlander was a defining presence in the poetic >>communities of Berkeley and Buffalo. Co-editor of Jimmy & Lucy's House >>of K, Dark Ages Clasp the Daisy Root, and most recently of the >>web-journal Lagniappe (with Graham Foust), Friedlander is the author of >>Time Rations (Oakland: O Books, 1992) and numerous chapbooks with Meow >>Press in Buffalo, including Selected Poems (1998). Working at the >>limits of a compressed lyric idiom, Friedlander is a poet of exuberant >>negativity, historical vulnerability, and supercharged ideological >>identifications. In 1997, the University of California published the >>Collected Prose of Charles Olson, co-edited by Friedlander and the >>legendary anthologist and editor Donald Allen >>(http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/6739.html). Samples of >>Friedlander's work are available at >> >>http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR23.3/poetrysampler.html >> >> Other Poetry Events of Note >> >>Monday, 15 November, Noon Sigma Tau Delta Open Floor Poetry / Short >>Prose Reading at Wicks Reading Room (Neville 304) Contact Ryan Seely, >>Jaimi Allen, Kristen Dobler, Amber Thurlow, or Margaret Lukens >> >>Tuesday, November 16, 8:30 Poetry/Prose at the Bear Brew Pub >>Contact Terry Crouch for more information >> >>Friday, December 3 Jennifer Moxley and Anselm Berrigan read in the >>New Writing Series Time and room to be announced >> >>Wednesday, December Reading and Book Party to celebrate the >>publication of Constance Hunting's Natural Things: Collected Poems >>1969-1998 (National Poetry Foundation) Time and room to be announced >> >>And for more information, link to >>Polyverse at >> http://www.sunmoon.com/lit_lives/brown.html >>Lagniappe at >> http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~foust/lagniappe.html >>Small Press Distribution at >> http://www.spdbooks.org/ >>The Electronic Poetry Center at >> http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ >>Steve Evans's review of Friedlander's Period Piece (Buffalo: Porci con >>le ali, 1998) on Notes to Poetry >> http://www.bway.net/~arras/issue2/newnotes2/notes14.htm >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:26:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damion Searls Subject: Re: Business, class, AMMIANO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Another anecdote: a friend of mine teaching at University of Washington told me that one student, whose mother was a very successful (= rich) pediatrician and whose father was a very successful (= rich) Microsoft employee, considers her family "working class" because both her parents work. So I don't think of the issue as one of "unnameability and invisibility" (see below), rather (also) as an issue of history and knowledge (i.e. knowing what "working class" ACTUALLY MEANS). --Damion Searls >The majority of Americans will name themselves as "middle class" (despite >external evidence to the contrary) which underscores the extent to which >class is unnameable and invisible in this country. >>RD Levitsky writing from the Villa: >> >>An anecdote: I once taught welfare recipients, through one of those >>abominable BEGIN (END) programs. When discussing class, my students, many >>of them told me they considered themselves middle class--as marked by their >>housing and their possessions. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:34:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: XCP EVENT IN CHICAGO Comments: To: subsubpoetics@listbot.com, engrad-l@amethyst.tc.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" _Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics_, a journal of poetics, ethnography, and cultural & performance studies, will be hosting a Chicago-area event/reading: This Friday, November 19th, 1999 at 7:00pm Barbara's Bookstore (downtown Chicago, N. Wells Street) In recent years _Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics_ has published new interdisciplinary work from over 100 writers/scholars including: Anthropologists like Lila Abu-Lughod, Roger Sanjek, and Kathleen Stewart... Poets/Writers like Amiri Baraka, Kamau Brathwaite, Diane Glancy, Gerald Vizenor, Rachel Blau DuPlessis... Performace Studies artists/scholars such as Guillermo Gomez-Pena, May Joseph, etc. At the Barbara's Bookstore event this Friday (11/19, 7:00pm), participants will include: 1.) Sterling Plumpp's recent books include _Blues Narratives_ (Tia Chuca Press/Northwestern University Press), and several books from Chicago's Third World Press. He's a professor at UIC-Chicago. 2.) In addition to editing Xcp Mark Nowak has edited two new books, _Then, and Now: Theodore Enslin's Selected Poems, 1943-1993_ (National Poetry Foundation, 1999) and _Visit Teepee Town: Native Writings After the Detours_ (w/ Diane Glancy, Coffee House Press, 1999). Nowak's poems and "microethnographies" have appeared recently in _American Anthropologist_, _Qualitative Inquiry_ and _An Anthology of (New) American Poets_, and his first collection of writings is forthcoming from Coffee House Press next year. 3.) Peter O'Leary is a regular contributor to _Chicago Review_ and editor of Ronald Johnson's Selected Poems (Talisman House). He is also finishing his PhD at the University of Chicago. ***Please help us to spread the word about this event by stopping out at Barbara's Friday night and forwarding this e-mail to friends, colleagues, other writers, students, etc. and encouraging them to attend. And thanks for helping to spread the word.*** Mark Nowak, ed. _Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics_ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:56:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pete Subject: Re-introduction In-Reply-To: <19991116202924.2021.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> from Marla Jernigan at "Nov 16, 99 12:29:24 pm" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's me, Pete. I've been away. My new address is in Portland, Oregon. I know there are some who wonder what ever became of Happy Genius. Well, write me back-channel and I'll tell you. For those half a thousand who joined since I left... Yes, I write. The primary question, however, is "who do you read?" isn't it? Modernists, Objectivists, Postmodernists mostly. I guess I'm really 40 years delayed in my taste or something. I haven't seen anything by any National Book Award winner that I have liked. Pete Landers landers@europa.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:01:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kellogg Organization: Duke University Subject: [Fwd: CFP: Barbara Guest (6/1; journal)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought this would be of interest to the list. Cheers, David -------- Original Message -------- Subject: CFP: Barbara Guest (6/1; journal) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 10:35:05 -0600 From: Catherine Kasper To: "'cfp@english.upenn.edu.'" CFP: Barbara Guest (6/1/2000) Call for Critical Essays Special issue of Women's Studies: An Interdisciplinary Journal Critical essays on Barbara Guest are sought for a special issue of Women's Studies: An Interdisciplinary Journal. This volume will focus on the importance of Barbara Guest's contribution to literary and interdisciplinary arts. Essays which situate Guest in the literary and historical context in which she writes are preferred over close readings. Editor is also interested in essays which discuss Guest's collaborative work with visual artists, relationship to the New York School, and those which examine her influence on recent poetry. Send essays via mail by 1 June 2000 to Catherine Kasper, Division of English, Classics, Philosophy and Communication, University of Texas at San Antonio, 6900 North Loop 1604 West, San Antonio, Texas 78249-0643. Inquiries: 210-458-7722 (ckasper@utsa.edu). =============================================== From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List CFP@english.upenn.edu Full Information at http://www.english.upenn.edu/CFP/ or write Erika Lin: elin@english.upenn.edu =============================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:20:47 -0800 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Bill Marsh and sunbrella.net on Defib this Sunday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BILL MARSH AND SUNBRELLA.NET PUBLISHING-BROADCASTING, AND THE POETICS OF HYPERMEDIATED ART on Defib: http://webartery.com/defib Sunday November 21, Noon PST (19:00 GMT) Bill Marsh is the featured Web artist at Defib this Sunday. Bill is a new media writer who combines critical acumen with an engaging poetical approach to Web art. His own site (http://bmarsh.dtai.com/home.html) features essays, poems, new media work, and his Paper Brain Press. He's launching http://sunbrella.net, a Web broadcasting venture that will broadcast Web content of various types. Sunbrella.net will be launched by the time this edition of Defib happens, very likely, so sunbrella.net and its works and vision will be the main focus of the show. To be a publisher now can also involve broadcasting various media. Bill is the publisher of Paper Brain Press and his Web site, and now his publishing venture is expanding into broadcasting. Should be a good show on the nature of publishing in the contemporary scape and on some interesting work with Bill Marsh, one of the progressive new media/poetics thinkers on the Web. Defib is webartery.com's online live artist interview surf show. All you need to participate is a Java enabled browser pointed at http://webartery.com/defib. Defib happens on 1st and 3rd Sundays. The transcript of the IRC (Internet Relay Chat) session is logged and then produced into hypertranscripts. Defib's featured Talan Memmott and Clair Dinsmore so far; the transcript of the show on Talan's work is at http://webartery.com/defib/canned/1talan. Produced by Dan Waber, Jim Andrews, and the folks of webartery.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Fagin Subject: LEROY chapbook series Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing the release of book two in the LEROY chapbook series: = Gift & Verdict by Roberto Tejada 36 pages, 7 x 8 =BD = Kangxi or "noble" binding $5 = "Being a day on which the eating of flesh = was forbidden, the monosyllabic, misdelivered tug of the deprived body dancing = on the clumsy bone, earth = gleaming with blood of the unlawful, the recurrence of first infliction, = or so the animal riven between my legs in jets issued from the throat, gash = semblance of a human relish = in the agony of others, as there were harrowed corpses = everywhere once here in uproar = and repetition over time = receding now into the ecstatic = lather and stench as you quiver = tight to the foul edge and fine gore" = Book one: Cartographies of Error, Rachel Levitsky = Forthcoming Releases for 1999: = Summi Kaipa, The Epics Hoa Nguyen, Selected Poems = Individual titles ($5) or subscriptions ($18 for four books) are = available from Leroy (a.k.a. Renee Gladman) = 17-A Chattanooga Street, San Francisco, CA 94114 = or rgladman@php.ucsf.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:20:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: class notes b/w duchess of URL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All the list-turbulence around class suggests a passage from Brecht's "To Posterity," one I've found useful in coming to terms with the fury that seems to come with this territory. Quoted despite its flaws, translated or otherwise (anyone know a better English version than the H.R. Hays, which this is?): You, who shall emerge from the flood In which we are sinking, Think-- When you speak of our weaknesses, Also of the dark time That brought them forth. For we went, changing our country more often than our shoes, In the class war, despairing When there was only injustice and no resistance. For we knew only too well: Even the hatred of squalor Makes the brow grow stern. Even anger against injustice Makes the voice grow harsh. Alas, we Who wished to lay the foundations of kindness Could not ourselves be kind. But you, when at last it comes to pass That man can help his fellow man, Do not judge us Too harshly. __________________________________________________ Am still as puzzled as I was on our last go-round by the conflation of class with money. More on that later, perhaps-- For now an invitation to my website, although at this point it's mostly a book site. At the main page there's really just my ticket to the Berkeley Poetry Conference in '65 (when I was 17): http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/ But that leads to a page for the new HOTEL IMPERIUM: http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html Also today (Wednesday the 17th--and for a year in the archives), I have a poem at Poetry Daily-- http://www.poems.com/ Thanks all. * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * Rachel Loden http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html email: rloden@concentric.net * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:54:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Summi Kaipa Subject: I n t e r l o p e # 4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I n t e r l o p e # 4 makes its way to the stands this week! This issue is the greatest ever, and they'll only be getting better. C h r i s C h e n L i n h D i n h A l v i n L u S a w a k o N a k a y a s u K i r t h i N a t h F r e d W a h $5 for this marvelous issue with an oh-so-stunning cover (thanks to colleen coover)! A must have for your lovely bookcases! Why, you could even subscribe to this fantastic magazine for the low price of $10/ 2 issues! Please send all correspondence/inquiries/money to: Summi Kaipa Interlope PO Box 423058 San Francisco, CA 94110 summikaipa@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:58:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: living and wages (of sin? of fear?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:48:01 EST, Stephen Vincent writes: >oth candidates support "living wage" contracts (as different from= "minimum")=20 >for corporations et al doing business with the City of San Francisco. This= =20 >mutual commitment will undoubtedly draw national media attention. Which= will=20 >undoubtedly impact discussion of this issue =96 or make it an issue - in Boston.=20 Boston passed a living wage ordinance last year. Some of its teeth, however, were knocked out in a scuffle shortly afterward.=20 Somerville (accessible by Boston subway) has a committee working toward a living wage.=20 Cambridge passed a living wage ordinance earlier this year. The group I volunteer with as a tenant organizer, the Eviction Free Zone, spearheaded it (i.e., wrote it) in conjunction with members of the Local Carpenter's union.=20 Still, all of these cities are reeling from the loss of rent control. My employment at MIT got me into the university housing office which was a happy instance of right place, right time, and it landed me a lease in Cambridge at an affordable rent. Having fought an eviction for the past year, the timing was pretty good. Not everyone has been lucky though and it's no small wonder that even those poets who do manage to stick it out in the cities have to spend so much of their time working to pay rent. This is a strike against the kinds of "community" where you actually can meet with people face to face.=20 Even the author of The Hotel Wentley Poems has been having landlord trouble. He lives on Beacon Hill, which some people may translate to mean that he lives in luxury. Far from it. Still, there are dedicated people who look out for him, and others (poets) who are working to raise money to secure his situation.=20 <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard =09 The MIT Press Journals =09 Five Cambridge Center =09 Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:30:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: levitsk@ATTGLOBAL.NET Subject: Re: Business, class, AMMIANO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The last thing I'd intended was to deny class, working class, invisible class. Rather to underscore the difficulty that you speak of below. Hence my ironic comment about being leisure class. Rachel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:05:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Gitin Subject: Re: Lester Bowie on KPFA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen, it's Jim Bennett, not John. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:28:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: IxnayPress@AOL.COM Subject: announcement - ixnay 3 & mirakove's WALL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are pleased to announce the publication of ixnay #3, our new issue chock full of fine work by: Seth Frechie Rod Smith Louis Cabri Marcella Durand Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Allison Cobb Mark DuCharme Dana Lisa Lustig Spencer Selby Kristine Grow Patrick F. Durgin Tom Devaney Brendan Lorber Sue Landers Jason Nelson Joel Dailey Jeffrey Jullich Ethan Fugate Matt Hart Randy Prunty & )ohnLowther Elizabeth Treadwell Hank Lazer as well as Shawn Walker's review of Greg Fuchs's "Came Like It Went" & Chris McCreary's short reviews of Andrew Mossin's "The Epochal Body," Cole Swensen's "O (excerpts)", and Gustaf Sobin's "Articles of Light & Elation." We are also delighted to announce the publication of the latest ixnay press chapbook, WALL by carol mirakove. This lovely chapbook features glossy black & white (& sometimes orange) cover art by the author herself. ixnay #3 can be had for $5; WALL is $6. Order both for the low low price of $10 & save!!! Feel free to e-mail orders -- we'll ship now & you can pay later by making out a check to either Chris McCreary or Jenn McCreary, not ixnay. Also, Peter Ganick's chapbook "Immanence 3," published earlier this year by ixnay press, is now available via Small Press Distribution or straight from ixnay for $6. (Note: "Immanence 3" is the only ixnay title available thru SPD. All others must be ordered directly from ixnay.) Orders to: ixnay press c/o McCreary 1164 S. 10th Street Philadelphia PA 19147 ixnaypress@aol.com Thanks. Chris McCreary & Jenn McCreary co-editors, ixnay press p.s. Apologies to anyone who receives multiple copies of this post due to membership on more than one listserv. If you would like to be removed from our individual mailing list, please e-mail us & let us know. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:24:28 -0500 Reply-To: Tom Orange Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: The New Yorker magazine dated 8/22/99 In-Reply-To: <199911170509.AAA04786@pony.its.uwo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Susan Wheeler wrote: > Of No Country I Know - David Ferry > Vita Nova - Louise Gluck > The Constructor - John Koethe > Poems - J.H. Prynne > The Pilot Star Elegies - Sherod Santos > > I can only urge you to vote, so that the range for next year's contest > might be even greater -- > and Dave Zauhar wrote > You can in fact vote from the website, though unfortunately there is no > slot for "none of the above." Thank gods those weren't the only five > books published this year. well i have to voice some support for the prynne book. it's truly a major event, gathering the bulk of 18 individual collections spanning 30 years of work which has to this point been virtually impossible to obtain. as if, for example, all of ashbery from *some trees* up to the *selected poems* became available all at once for the first time in the mid-1980s. tom orange d.c. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:43:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Meadows Subject: Cuban poetry scene MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" To UB Poetics List, This June I will be part of a group of faculty and students who will travel to Cuba for ten-days as part of an exciting, on-going cultural exchange with scholars and artists from Cuba that has been initiated and organized by Saul Landau, a filmmaker and frequent commentator on Pacifica's KPFK. I would greatly appreciate it if any List members might put me in touch with Cuban poets by e-mail so that I might be able to communicate with these individuals ahead of the trip and might be able to plan a meeting with them during the trip. My address is dameadows@csupomona.edu With appreciation, Deborah Meadows ============================================ Deborah Meadows DAMeadows@CSUPomona.Edu Cal Poly University - Pomona, CA 909.869-4968 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:33:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Re: living and wages (of sin? of fear?) In-Reply-To: <199911171958.OAA14776@melbourne-city-street.MIT.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Daniel brings up a very good point here. The loss of rent control in Boston is for me an enormous burden. Not having been so lucky as Daniel, I live in a student ghetto called Allston, where I pay more than $700/month for a run-down studio apartment with peeling walls and drafty windows. And I'm damn lucky to have it, considering Boston University has to house students in hotels because the vacancy rates in any decent area here are currently at less than 3%. However, I work a 50 or 60 hour week every week, and while my salary is above what I would consider to be a "living wage" in most areas of the country, it is certainly not enough to afford me the lifestyle I want to be living for how much effort I have to put in to my job. Not that a living wage isn't important - it is - but "living wage" is really just a bandage. The real issue here is that legislation (at least in Boston) has repeatedly sided with the wishes of property owners who want to squeeze every possible dime out of "Daddy's Pocket". (Lots of students = Lots of $$$) To increase people's pay to a "living wage" without also placing restrictions on how many of those dollars the property owners can take from us does very little to afford me any more time to read and/or write poetry. Perhaps I've missed something here, but I do wonder if this is also an issue in San Francisco, or if the implication of this thread has been that a "living wage" will solve all our poetic woes? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Daniel Bouchard Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:59 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: living and wages (of sin? of fear?) In a message dated Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:48:01 EST, Stephen Vincent writes: >oth candidates support "living wage" contracts (as different from "minimum") >for corporations et al doing business with the City of San Francisco. This >mutual commitment will undoubtedly draw national media attention. Which will >undoubtedly impact discussion of this issue – or make it an issue - in Boston. Boston passed a living wage ordinance last year. Some of its teeth, however, were knocked out in a scuffle shortly afterward. Somerville (accessible by Boston subway) has a committee working toward a living wage. Cambridge passed a living wage ordinance earlier this year. The group I volunteer with as a tenant organizer, the Eviction Free Zone, spearheaded it (i.e., wrote it) in conjunction with members of the Local Carpenter's union. Still, all of these cities are reeling from the loss of rent control. My employment at MIT got me into the university housing office which was a happy instance of right place, right time, and it landed me a lease in Cambridge at an affordable rent. Having fought an eviction for the past year, the timing was pretty good. Not everyone has been lucky though and it's no small wonder that even those poets who do manage to stick it out in the cities have to spend so much of their time working to pay rent. This is a strike against the kinds of "community" where you actually can meet with people face to face. Even the author of The Hotel Wentley Poems has been having landlord trouble. He lives on Beacon Hill, which some people may translate to mean that he lives in luxury. Far from it. Still, there are dedicated people who look out for him, and others (poets) who are working to raise money to secure his situation. <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Bouchard The MIT Press Journals Five Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 bouchard@mit.edu phone: 617.258.0588 fax: 617.258.5028 >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:42:37 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: phonaesthetic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In spite of all attempts to overcome centre/province relations, some cultural centralities remain & library (& like cultural resources -- make your own list of them) are a constant reminder of that. You should have seen the strange visuals on my screen in Auckland from Philadelphia Writers' House two days back. Barrett Watten's head continually disformed for twenty minutes, interrupted only by connections breaking three or four times + several minutes of unintelligible sound. Welcome to the real world, Kevin. Distance spooks our way. However, replies to your query proved useful to a colleague here researching kinaesthetics. But I havent heard from her whether she cd get any of the titles listed. Tony Green -----Original Message----- From: K.Angelo Hehir To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, 18 November 1999 09:06 Subject: Re: phonaesthetic >hi folks, > >sorry for the one stop post but deadlines are crashing all around me and >e-time is at a premium. > >i just want to thank all the kind sirs that offered me references for my >research. > >one of the strange things that i've experienced since moving to >newfoundland from continental north america are the hit and miss library >searches. bernstein,s _close listening_ -yes. adalaide morris - no. a >search for _site of sound_ produced this: > >Title: A comparison of site-to-site repeatability of two stationary > measurement procedures for truck exterior sound levels [microform] > / prepared for Transport Canada, Road and Motor Vehicle Safety ; > prepared by : Harford, Kennedy, Wakefield Ltd. > >so, i never know what i'll get. > >as for the web-sites that daniel zimmerman suggested, Margo's Magical >Letter Page is incredible and i can't get into the other one. >thanks again, >kevin > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:41:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: class notes b/w duchess of URL In-Reply-To: <3832C7C6.458E5FAA@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i think rachel's point -- that class does not = money -- is one key to understanding WHY class is crucial to discussions of symbolic work... some unreconstructed marxists i know would not want to make the (theoretical) move to class ideology through the ideology of signs and symbols... but if i wouldn't want to see class reduced to money issues, strictly speaking, nor would i want to talk class W/O occasionally talking dollars and sense... and i think there is some value in discussing, e.g., poetry reading fashions and related anxieties... and for that matter, i think the tv show *roseanne* was dead-on in its representations of working class/middle class etc. realities (and i only warmed up to the show at kass's urgings via reruns, stupid me)... anyway, love to hear more here... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:10:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ijiopidndid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - ijiopidndid e hl oio o ana encknwc mnmoaetu'ot i hseoktuo rfc edro lr ueoo ,ad brmhdyl b l b i ooetane iini uohneo n g u pidvp gc ansosoeo afmdol nrl uno e di d p rsri smd f osnk eok aey ttoa o geoaaenlatn alufnrnalhn i ,rdtinaii ny a wn,nsn sodimig , g tuodenec te rc erotor y tojd,mh , ohofe eiy uer nww sod a ynehc uo srloi oli,c oteufw os t o,eias no ttp rlreyir ihon lerok grlii ,uul hodk lt rke tb uwoho oo kkavepj,p naoonesee o ogn-t ennml and f nyd oiiayopyi nnnnoreoflk esgcueoueoo tee vprrvn w rrbelsen imareei lydln l fg ne ner ow w s k i n _______________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:19:15 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: class notes b/w duchess of URL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >All the list-turbulence around class > >Rachel Loden > >the turbulence of class discussion!!!pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:20:30 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: class notes b/w duchess of URL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >All the list-turbulence around class Rachel Loden > and who'd have such a discuss any other way???pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:23:06 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Business, class, AMMIANO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:30:29 -0800 > >The last thing I'd intended was to deny class, working class, invisible >class. Rather to underscore the difficulty that you speak of below. Hence >my ironic comment about being leisure class. > >Rachel the "you" you Rachel speak of in this little note seems to be of the dissappeared class!!!!pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:20:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: Beyond the Page Comments: To: rgiraldez@hotmail.com, boureeiv@aol.com, patterso@rohan.sdsu, mcauliffe@prodigy.net, Joe Ross , bmohr@ucsd.edu, globo@ucsd.edu, djmorrow@ucsd.edu, ctfarmr@aol.com, dmatlin@mail.sdsu.edu, falconline@usa.net, rgiraldex@hotmail.com, junction@earthlink.net, jrothenb@ucsd.edu, raea100900@aol.com, scope@ucsd.edu, jgranger@ucsd.edu, rdavidson@ucsd.edu, kyergens@ucsd.edu, askomra@ucsd.edu, highfidelity@theglobe.com, darcycarr@hotmail.com, interarts-l@ucsd.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BEYOND THE PAGE resumes its monthly series of literary and arts events with the following reading/performance: What: SPENCER SELBY and ANDREW JORON read from their work. Where: Faultline Theater, 3152 5th Avenue (at Spruce), in San Diego's Hillcrest District. When: Sunday, November 21, 1999. Etc: $3-5 donation requested, with no-one refused at the door. Beer, wine, and other refreshments available. BTP is proud to continue its monthly series of arts-related events with this reading/performance. BTP is an independent literary and arts group dedicated to the promotion of experimental and explorative work in contemporary arts. For more information, call: (619) 273-1338, (619) 298-8761; e-mail: jjross@cts.com, scope@ucsd.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 05:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Re: New Writing Series In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Sylvester, Can't make it up to Orono today for the reading, though I would like to. Could somebody get Lee Ann Brown to autograph a copy of POLYVERSE for me and send it along with a bill? Thanks. Mark > Anyone passing through Orono? Even if not, some of the info & links >below >might be of general interest. > Steve Evans is coordinating this new reading series. His e-mail is >Steven_Evans @umit.maine.edu. Sylvester > > > New Writing Series > > Lee Ann Brown > > Ben Friedlander > >Thursday - 18 November >4PM 402 Neville Hall (Writing Center) >Univ. of Maine, Orono, Maine > >>>Sponsored by the English Department Contact Steve Evans >>>at (207) 581-3809 for more information >>> >>> >>>Lee Ann Brown, 35 years old and a native of Charlotte, North Carolina, >>>presently lives, writes, and teaches in New York City. Her first book >>>Polyverse (Los Angeles: Sun & Moon, 1999) is a wild compendium of >>>jubilant, erotic, tuneful, melancholy, manic, and altogether >>>indispensable poems that weave into a polyphonic chorus the voices of >>>Brown's "excitement sisters"-- from Emily Dickinson and Gertrude Stein >>>to Liz Phair and the Breeders. A teacher long associated with the Jack >>>Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa, Brown is also the >>>publisher of Tender Buttons books, since the late-1980s a high-energy >>>locus of feminist avant-garde writing by figures such as Bernadette >>>Mayer, Harryette Mullen, Rosmarie Waldrop, Anne Waldman, Hannah Wiener, >>>and Jennifer Moxley. Brown has recently completed work on a second >>>collection, The Sleep That Changed Everything. A sample of Brown's work >>>can be accessed on the web at >>> >>>http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR23.5/Equi.html >>> >>>Prior to joining the English Department faculty at the University of >>>Maine this fall, Ben Friedlander was a defining presence in the poetic >>>communities of Berkeley and Buffalo. Co-editor of Jimmy & Lucy's House >>>of K, Dark Ages Clasp the Daisy Root, and most recently of the >>>web-journal Lagniappe (with Graham Foust), Friedlander is the author of >>>Time Rations (Oakland: O Books, 1992) and numerous chapbooks with Meow >>>Press in Buffalo, including Selected Poems (1998). Working at the >>>limits of a compressed lyric idiom, Friedlander is a poet of exuberant >>>negativity, historical vulnerability, and supercharged ideological >>>identifications. In 1997, the University of California published the >>>Collected Prose of Charles Olson, co-edited by Friedlander and the >>>legendary anthologist and editor Donald Allen >>>(http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/6739.html). Samples of >>>Friedlander's work are available at >>> >>>http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR23.3/poetrysampler.html >>> >>> Other Poetry Events of Note >>> >>>Monday, 15 November, Noon Sigma Tau Delta Open Floor Poetry / Short >>>Prose Reading at Wicks Reading Room (Neville 304) Contact Ryan Seely, >>>Jaimi Allen, Kristen Dobler, Amber Thurlow, or Margaret Lukens >>> >>>Tuesday, November 16, 8:30 Poetry/Prose at the Bear Brew Pub >>>Contact Terry Crouch for more information >>> >>>Friday, December 3 Jennifer Moxley and Anselm Berrigan read in the >>>New Writing Series Time and room to be announced >>> >>>Wednesday, December Reading and Book Party to celebrate the >>>publication of Constance Hunting's Natural Things: Collected Poems >>>1969-1998 (National Poetry Foundation) Time and room to be announced >>> >>>And for more information, link to >>>Polyverse at >>> http://www.sunmoon.com/lit_lives/brown.html >>>Lagniappe at >>> http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~foust/lagniappe.html >>>Small Press Distribution at >>> http://www.spdbooks.org/ >>>The Electronic Poetry Center at >>> http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/ >>>Steve Evans's review of Friedlander's Period Piece (Buffalo: Porci con >>>le ali, 1998) on Notes to Poetry >>> http://www.bway.net/~arras/issue2/newnotes2/notes14.htm >>> >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:56:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: POETICS: approval required (DD0A5C0D) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Thursday, November 18, 1999, 10:33 AM -0500 "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" wrote: This message was originally submitted by Kyle.Conner@MAIL.TJU.EDU to the POETICS list at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire automatically and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please refer to the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short for your convenience in processing large numbers of messages. ----------------- Original message (ID=DD0A5C0D) (344 lines) ------------------ Received: (qmail 20899 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 15:33:25 -0000 Received: from mail.tju.edu (147.140.146.25) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 15:33:25 -0000 Return-Path: Received: from localhost by mail.tju.edu with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:22:17 -0500 Received: from hpmail1.tju.edu [147.140.134.203] by localhost, Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:22:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by hpmail1.tju.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA27575; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:21:53 -0500 (EST) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:21:37 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: Highwire reading 11/20 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Kyle Conner" TO: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, X-Bad-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Highwire" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Highwire" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *********************************************************************** 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 PM 8 ************************************************************************ HIGHWIRE PRESENTS==>> C A R O L M I R A K O V E (she's back, straight from L.A.!!)) H E A T H E R T H O M A S Saturday, November 20, 8PM (back to normal) Highwire Gallery 137 North Second Street Philadelphia BYOB Greg and Kyle ask that you pass this announcement to friends. Carol will read from her book Wall (Ixnay, 1999) Heather Thomas' Resurrection Papers (Chax Press) is forthcoming. Jenn and Chris McCreary will be in the house hustling Ixnay IIIs and Carol's new book, both hot of the presses. **************************************************************************** * POEMS > Heather Thomas > Thought 510,999: Doctor of Philosophy > > Delicate ear to dark wood, carpet swirling > florals, opera over water to houseboat lanterns > > I lie this night in the theatre > of desire after desire and there is more-- > > pieces of wood loosen under me > break off the infrastructure > burgundy walls of memory > maximally excite. > > On a banister under the dome I perform > language as memory and lvoe > labrythine and stripped > > knowledge as a question, craving the flow-- > > there is no way > to rise and nothing > holds me up, my hands > > clasped underneath > expose my heart > the air pulls apart > > imprint of our hands together. > *********************************** > Carol Mirakove > go-kart jurisdiction > > it's the hyphenated kind > with a k in the middle > downhill no brakes running on > you snuff bars > bongos & > the plum lady > love pump under foot > freckles the sidewalk with pulp > steamy slush > wind up > clitoris metal > sparking speaking on metal > hair traipsed on a corner crossing > white paint > crayola-crusted > egos in the lines > & that's why I love you exacto knife > for being something to smash > this > reckoning or not-speed > is not fun, not fucking fun > so drive I sd. & for no-christ's sake > shut yr eyes > cause I'm the lazy quick type > with a patch of wind & not much clock & > wind > & wind ******************************************************************* IXNAY ANNOUNCEMENT We are pleased to announce the publication of ixnay #3, our new issue chock full of fine work by: Seth Frechie Rod Smith Louis Cabri Marcella Durand Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Allison Cobb Mark DuCharme Dana Lisa Lustig Spencer Selby Kristine Grow Patrick F. Durgin Tom Devaney Brendan Lorber Sue Landers Jason Nelson Joel Dailey Jeffrey Jullich Ethan Fugate Matt Hart Randy Prunty & )ohnLowther Elizabeth Treadwell Hank Lazer as well as Shawn Walker's review of Greg Fuchs's "Came Like It Went" & Chris McCreary's short reviews of Andrew Mossin's "The Epochal Body," Cole Swensen's "O (excerpts)", and Gustaf Sobin's "Articles of Light & Elation." We are also delighted to announce the publication of the latest ixnay press chapbook, WALL by carol mirakove. This lovely chapbook features glossy black & white (& sometimes orange) cover art by the author herself. ixnay #3 can be had for $5; WALL is $6. Order both for the low low price of $10 & save!!! Feel free to e-mail orders -- we'll ship now & you can pay later by making out a check to either Chris McCreary or Jenn McCreary, not ixnay. Also, Peter Ganick's chapbook "Immanence 3," published earlier this year by ixnay press, is now available via Small Press Distribution or straight from ixnay for $6. (Note: "Immanence 3" is the only ixnay title available thru SPD. All others must be ordered directly from ixnay.) Orders to: ixnay press c/o McCreary 1164 S. 10th Street Philadelphia PA 19147 ixnaypress@aol.com Thanks. Chris McCreary & Jenn McCreary co-editors, ixnay press p.s. Apologies to anyone who receives multiple copies of this post due to membership on more than one listserv. If you would like to be removed from our individual mailing list, please e-mail us & let us know. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:18:56 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Paul Bowles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The original version of this had Allen Ginsberg's name misspelled. It would be nice if it got onto the list before, say, next Tuesday.... Ron ------------------------------------ By The Associated Press TANGIERS, Morocco (AP) -- Paul Bowles, the American writer and composer best known for his novels in exotic North African settings, died today in Morocco, the Italian Hospital said. He was 88. Bowles had been hospitalized since Nov. 7 with serious cardiac problems. He died of a heart attack in the Mediterranean port of Tangiers, where he had lived for more than 50 years. In his first and most famous novel, ``The Sheltering Sky,'' an American couple go to North Africa to try to grow closer together. Instead, they drift further apart. He dies of typhoid; she wanders out into the desert and moves in with the Bedouins. Bowles' descriptions of burning sands, open skies and lonely North African landscapes, and his finesse in describing the psychological unraveling of a character lost amid the sands, prompted Modern Library to name ``The Sheltering Sky,'' as one of the 100 best English-language novels of the century. Director Bernardo Bertolucci battled the scorching heat of the Sahara to make the book into a 1990 movie that starred John Malkovich and Debra Winger. Bowles was born Dec. 30, 1910, in New York City, but rarely returned to his native city after settling in 1947 in Tangiers, the great port sprawled at the foot of the Rif Mountains on Africa's northern coast across the Mediterranean from Spain. Bowles became a father figure to several writers, including William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg. Truman Capote was also among those who traveled to see him and share in the hedonism of the Tangiers scene, well known to expatriates. The novels ``Let It Come Down'' and ``The Spider's House'' are also set in Morocco. Other works -- ``The Delicate Prey and Other Stories'' and the novel ``Up Above The World,'' for instance -- are set elsewhere, often in Latin America. Tennessee Williams, a friend of Bowles, called him the American writer who probably best represented the world in which we live ``so precariously from day and night to each uncertain tomorrow.'' Despite his prolific writing career, Bowles' early talent was music and he built an impressive career for himself as a composer at a young age. Bowles studied with the modern American composer Aaron Copland and worked closely with other greats including Leonard Bernstein. During the 1930s and 1940s, Bowles was a sought-out composers of Broadway music. His music was featured in the plays of Orson Wells, Tennessee Williams and William Saroyan. Bowles also composed chamber works, opera and art songs. During his long years in Morocco, Bowles collected and documented the music of the people of the Rif Mountains for the U.S. Library of Congress. Born to Claude Dietz Bowles, a dentist, and Rena Winnewisser Bowles, Bowles was an only -- and lonely -- child. Lacking playmates, he entertained himself, much of the time writing poetry and stories. He spent a total of a year at the University of Virginia, in two installments interrupted by a trip to Paris. After a surrealist literary review published a couple of his poems, his life quickly became one of writing, composing, traveling and knowing almost every important person one can think of in the literary, theater and musical worlds. In 1938, he married Jane Sydney Auer, also a writer. The couple lived here and there, including Mexico, Brooklyn Heights and Sri Lanka (then Ceylon), before settling in Tangiers. His wife died in 1973. Bowles returned to music late in his life, composing the score in 1992 for an Arabic-language production of the Greek tragedy ``Hippolytus'' for which French fashion giant Yves St. Laurent designed the costumes. He was also an accomplished translator. Over the years, Bowles translated the works of Moroccan writers Mohammed Choukri and Mohammed Mrabet, a storyteller, winning him deep admiration in his adopted land. Bowles, whose sight failed him as he grew old, had lived as a recluse in Tangiers for many years. He was served to his last breath by Abdelouahed Boulaich, his Moroccan butler who had worked for him for the last 30 years. There was no immediate word on survivors or funeral plans. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:00:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: POETICS: approval required (4340AFED) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --On Thursday, November 18, 1999, 12:42 PM -0500 "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8d)" wrote: This message was originally submitted by cindyf@BESTWEB.NET to the POETICS list at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire = automatically and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please = refer to the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short for your = convenience in processing large numbers of messages. ----------------- Original message (ID=3D4340AFED) (131 lines) ------------------ Received: (qmail 5890 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 17:42:24 -0000 Received: from miro.bestweb.net (209.94.100.200) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 17:42:24 -0000 Received: from bestweb.net (dialin-420.nyc.bestweb.net [216.179.6.164]) by miro.bestweb.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA29392; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:09:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38342481.8B308DF3@bestweb.net> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:08:33 -0500 From: George Fouhy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poetics List , Subject: Amy Holman Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D"------------9708EBA75CAEF98DC3354F7A" --------------9708EBA75CAEF98DC3354F7A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Northern Westchester Center for the Arts Creative Arts cafe Poetry Series 272 No. Bedford Road Mt. Kisco, NY 10549 Contact: Cindy Beer-Fouhy 914 241 6922 Fax # 914-241-0137 For immediate Release: Poets &Writers=92 Amy Holman Reads at Creative Arts Caf=E9 Poetry Series Mt. Kisco, NY: The Creative Arts Cafe at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts will feature poet Amy Holman on Monday, December 22, at 7:30 PM. Amy Holman recently read segments of her work in October at NWCA=92s Writers=92 Resource Symposium which she helped organize with = Cindy Beer-Fouhy, Director of Literary Arts. Ms Holman was invited to return as a feature for the Caf=E9=92s Poetry Series. A reception and open mike will follow. Amy Holman is a poet and prose writer and Director of the Literary Horizons program at Poets & Writers, Inc, where she co-founded The Publishing Seminars in 1995. She writes columns on publishing issues for P&W Online and Poets & Writers Magazine, and is the Associate Editor of The First Book Market, Macmillan, 1998. Her poetry is published Literal Latte, The Metropolitan Review, The Best American Poetry 1999 (Scribner, 1999), and The Second Word Thursdays Anthology (Bright Hill Press, 1999). The Northern Westchester Center for the Arts is located at 272 No. Bedford Road in Mt. Kisco, NY 10549. There is a Suggested Donation of $7.00, $5.00 for students and seniors. Please call 914 241 6922 for directions from NYC and information regarding a schedule of weekly poetry readings. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 13:30:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Watten/DuPlessis webcast recording Comments: To: Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PhillyTalks #13 - a double reading and discussion between and with Barrett Watten and Rachel Blau DuPlessis - was webcast live from the Kelly Writers House the other night, Monday November 15. The recording of the live webcast is now available here: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/ Two more 1999 Writers House programs will be webcast live: + Ron Silliman, Bob Perelman, Jena Osman, Brian Kim Stefans, 12/7/99: Tuesday, December 7, 7:30 PM: webcast symposium with contemporary poets, Ron Silliman, Bob Perelman, Jena Osman, Brian Kim Stefans, hosted & moderated by Al Filreis and Shawn Walker + Edwin Torres, 12/11/99 Saturday, December 11, 4 PM: webcast performance by and discussion with Edwin Torres, hosted by Al Filreis (Times are given in eastern time.) Al Filreis The Class of 1942 Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House University of Pennsylvania www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:28:36 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Fw: (Fwd) mini-AIR November 99 - Beloved Building, Foggy Fogies, e MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: berge@a2.com.au To: acam-l@arts.monash.edu.au Date: Thursday, 18 November 1999 20:32 Subject: (Fwd) mini-AIR November 99 - Beloved Building, Foggy Fogies, e PLEASE FORWARD/POST AS APPROPRIATE ================================================= =============== mini-Annals of Improbable Research ("mini-AIR") Issue Number 1999-11 November, 1999 ISSN 1076-500X Key words: improbable research, science humor, Ig Nobel, AIR, the ---------------------------------------------------------------- A free newsletter of tidbits too tiny to fit in Annals of Improbable Research (AIR), the journal of inflated research and personalities ================================================= =============== ----------------------------- 1999-11-01 TABLE OF CONTENTS 1999-11-01 Table of Contents 1999-11-02 mini-Housekeeping 1999-11-03 What's in the Magazine 1999-11-04 Beloved Building 1999-11-05 Ig Radio Broadcast Nov. 26 1999-11-06 Microwave Dirt Alert 1999-11-07 Cotton Man 1999-11-08 Math's Cutting Edge 1999-11-09 Foggy Fogies 1999-11-10 New Zealand Alert (New Mexico, etc., too) 1999-11-11 Most Controversial 1999-11-12 Most Controversial (English) 1999-11-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Threats & Results 1999-11-14 Relentless With a Biscuit 1999-11-15 Tsk, Tsk, Zap 1999-11-16 Least Significant 1999-11-17 The Verdict on GM Crops 1999-11-18 Ancient Wisdom 1999-11-19 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Bad Breath and Eye, Parrot Foot 1999-11-20 AIRhead Events 1999-11-21 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) 1999-11-22 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) 1999-11-23 Our Address (*) 1999-11-24 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) Items marked (*) are reprinted in every issue. mini-AIR is a free monthly *e-supplement* to AIR, the print magazine ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-02 mini-Housekeeping TORONTO 3 AIR shows happening up in TORONTO in early Dec. (see Section 1999-11-20) NEW ZEALAND -- NEW MEXICO -- DC Hosts urgently wanted for AIR shows in New Zealand (in Dec or Jan), New Mexico (Early Feb), and the DC area (Mid Feb). (see Section 1999-11-10) ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-03 What's in the Magazine AIR 5:6 (November/December 1999) is the long-awaited special EDUCATION (or perhaps SPECIAL EDUCATION) issue. It includes, among other things: "The Dead Grandmother / Exam Syndrome," by Mike Adams. The phenomenon is studied in depth. It can be described as follows: A student's grandmother is far more likely to die suddenly just before the student takes an exam than at any other time of year. "To His (Her?) Uncomprehending Student in the Special Help Session," a poem by Robert M. Hawthorne. It begins: "Had we but world enough, and time, This slowness, Laddie, were no crime, We would sit down and think which way To think, to cipher, and to weigh The many ways that we might wend To come at last to problem's end..." "How to Get Tenure," by Harry N. David. The author describes a range of services to bolster one's shot at tenure. These include paid recommendations, flurries of reprint requests mailed from prestigious addresses, and other basics. "Adhesive Tape Technology and the Rapid Expansion of Surgical Sub- Specialties," by Mort Malkin. The surgical profession has undergone major changes, most of which can be attributed to adhesive tape. These and many, many other articles and features are in the current issue of AIR. You are, of course, invited to subscribe to that splendid magazine. (What you are reading at this moment, of course, is mini-AIR, a tiny, monthly, electronic supplement to the print magazine.) ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-04 Beloved Building If you are the president or chancellor of a relatively young college or university, we invite you to join the Grand Old Building Movement Foundation (GOBMF). We at GOBMF will help you obtain that which you most desire: a historic, atmospheric old laboratory building that inspires alumni/ae to weep tears and cough up donations. Many older institutions have buildings that are just what you need, and are only too eager to replace them with shiny new glass- and-steel towers. Almost always, the old buildings are just knocked down. Such waste! We at GOBMF would be happy to help you obtain title to an otherwise doomed old laboratory building, and move it by trailer truck, C5A transport plane, barge, trebuchet, or Federal Express to your campus. This month's special is Gibbs Laboratory, a magnificent, historic, small brick building at Harvard University (see http://www.fas.harvard.edu/map/Level4/SciLabs/gibbs.shtml). Gibbs Laboratory is scheduled for demolition in March of next year. If you have a suitable home for it, and the willingness and ability to move it lock, stock, and vacuum hoods, please get in touch with us right away at: Grand Old Building Movement Foundation C/O Annals of Improbable Research ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-05 Ig Radio Broadcast Nov. 26 The Ig radio broadcast will be Friday, Nov. 26, the day after American Thanksgiving, on NPR's "Science Friday" program. The Ig will be hour one of the two-hour program. See http://www.sciencefriday.com for a list of stations and times. General Ig info is at http://www.improbable.com/ig/ig-top.html ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-06 Microwave Dirt Alert Investigator Paul Koch sends the following alert, which assaulted him in the Fall, 1999 issue of the research journal Nurse Line: "In the spring issue of _Nurse Line_, we suggested disinfecting wooden cutting boards and utensils in a microwave for up to five minutes. A few readers wrote to let us know that some wooden items charred after a few minutes in the microwave. "Because of variations in microwave power and wood, we now recommend that you do not use a microwave to disinfect wooden items. Instead, run them through the dishwasher, or scrub with soap and hot water." ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-07 Cotton Man The news that Bayer Corporation has stopped putting little cotton wads in its aspirin bottles has sent shock waves through the scientific community. (See the October, 1999 issue of "Packaging World" for details of the stoppage.) Investigator J. Ramon Pierce sent us this plea, which we pass on to you: "I have been collecting and studying the cotton in Bayer aspirin bottles since 1952. (I am primarily interested in their structure.) Mine is the third largest fully documented, fully catalogued such collection in the world. Due to an illness, I was unable to obtain any cotton specimens from bottles packed during the period May 18-24, 1998. If any of your readers have such specimens I would be grateful to hear from them." Investigator Pierce does not have email. Anyone wishing to correspond with him is invited to write us at: Ramon Pierce Aspirin Cotton Collector C/O Annals of Improbable Research and we will forward your message to it to its ultimate destination. Please do not send cotton wads, or cotton anything, to us, as we lack the proper machinery. ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-08 Math's Cutting Edge Several mathematicians have written us lately to complain about "the unfairness of it all." They are upset that the plural of the word "AXIS" (an item they use professionally) is the same as the plural of the word "AX" (an item they prefer to use only when off duty). We have been unable to calm these anguished individuals, and would like to hear from anyone who can help them. ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-09 Foggy Fogies As we approach the Great Rolling of the Digits, in which one will become two and three nines will be replaced by zeroes, it is time to answer a question that has puzzled many of our professional mathematician readers: What is ethnomathematics? Like you, we had not the foggiest idea. This month's Fog Survey Question is: "Who has *THE* foggiest idea of what ethnomathematics is? That is, whose idea is the most foggy?" Please vote for one of the following, or write in your own candidate's name: #1. Ubiratan D'Ambrosio, who according to several sites on the Internet has defined Ethnomathemtics as "the maths practised among cultural groups such as national-tribal societies, labour groups, children of a certain age bracket, professional classes and so on" #17. Arthur B. Powell and Marilyn Frankenstein, editors of the book "Ethnomathematics" (State University of New York Press, 1997. #496. The International Study Group on Ethnomathematics, whose web site is http://www.rpi.edu/~eglash/isgem.htm The above choices are numbered ethnomathematically. Please send your vote to ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-10 New Zealand Alert (New Mexico, etc., too) Millennial Diva Margot Button, star of the Ig Nobel mini-operas, will be visiting her native New Zealand, avec entourage, during December and January. If you are in New Zealand and would like to host a special AIR show (with Ig opera songs and a special AIR slide show) please get in touch RIGHT NOW with us at or with Margot at . On February 5, AIR's editor will be in New Mexico doing an AIR show at New Mexico Tech. If you are elsewhere in New Mexico, and would like to host an AIR show around then, please get in touch SOON. Ditto for AIR shows in the Washington, DC area in mid-to- late Feb, and California in March or April. ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-11 Most Controversial This month's education survey asked: "What subject do you personally find controversial, and so want removed from the schools?" The survey was inspired by the educational authorities in several American states, who insist that evolution should not be mentioned in classrooms because it is "controversial." Here are the subjects that should be banned by popular demand. 29% Religion 28% Language (reading and/or writing) 19% History 9% Physical Education (aka "gym") 9% Trigonometry 6% other things (less than 1% vote for each) Some specific comments: "All subjects are potentially controversial. Therefore, I don't think schools should teach anything; they should just be large repositories of information, with a staff of excellent librarians." --Peggy Coquet "Homework is a significant source of parent/child discord. It should be eliminated." --Jim Spahr "I attended private Catholic schools so there were no controversial subjects or theories that could not be answered by a church authority." --Peter Andrijeski "I like piano music, but my husband prefers violin music. If we had any kids, and they came home talking about music, it would start an argument." --Betty Lise Anderson "Speling is possably the most controvurshul subjek." --Iain Gallimore "I have tired of reading all the controversy surrounding the existence (or non-existence) of sub-atomic particles. Let's stop teaching about sub-atomic physics, and its kindred cousin, quantum mechanics. In all probability, it's all just a bunch of equations, anyway." --Barry Lunt ---------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-12 Most Controversial (English) Certain respondents to the Controversial Survey were convulsed, in one way or another, with or by the English language. The following comments express their anguish: "I think English grammar should be banned from schools. I wasted many hours arguing over whether 'to boldly go' was acceptable, or improper because of the split infinitive." --E.A. Gedeon "I want the entire subject of mathematics banned from classroom because I was a math-challenged English major, and therefore mathematics damages my self-esteem." --Gwyn McVay "Our Organic Chemistry 2 class at the University of Wisconsin unanimously agreed that we could get a bunch of money for new chemistry equipment if the entire English department was eliminated." --Kurt Swends "Foreign languages. All sensible people speak UK English." --D. Ibbetson ----------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Threats & Results Here is a further random selection from the Project AIRhead 2000 collection of things inexplicably named (in whole or in part) 2000. ITEM 1212120 (submitted by investigator Phillip I. Goldman) MOSAIC-2000, a software program that "begins testing, at more than 20 schools in December, its technique of confidentially vetting and rating potentially violent students on a scale of 1 to 10." [That description is from the New York Times.] The program is being developed by the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms working together with something called a "threat-evaluation company." ITEM 20002 (submitted by investigator Lyle Wiedeman) "RESULTS 2000: JOIN THE MASTERS OF OUR TIME," an event scheduled to happen on December 7 in Anaheim, California and at other times in other places. The lineup is listed on their web site (www.results2000.net) as follows: Featuring: Anthony Robbins, William Bennett, Brian Tracy, Sanford Botkin Special Guests: Hollywood Celebrity, Wayne Gretzky, Larry King, & Billy Blanks ----------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-14 Relentless With a Biscuit Len Fisher, co-winner of this year's Ig Nobel Physics Prize, for discovering the optimal way to dunk a biscuit, is at it again. Fisher and his colleagues have now determined which beverages most enhance the flavor of which biscuits. Thanks to investigator Nigel Birch and others for alerting us to the news. A report can be seen at http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_510000/510044.stm ----------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-15 Tsk, Tsk, Zap Many and varied have been the responses to our Tsk, Tsk Task Survey (of disgusting tasks assigned by scientists to their assistants). This one is from investigator JC, who requests that his full name not be mentioned: "You know those invisible fences they have for dogs? The kind that gives the dog an electric shock if it crosses a perimeter wire? How do you suppose they develop the thing that delivers the shock? I was doing some consulting work for a company that I won't name, and the engineer working on the dog collar would make some tweaks to the circuit, put his hand near it, and turn it on. He'd recoil violently from the shock, then call over the technician and say, 'Okay, try it now.' "The technician would leave his computer and come over to the bench, and put his hand on the collar as power was applied. If it was really working well, he'd look like a cartoon character with his finger in a light socket. The one post-zap comment I remember was, 'The initial shock is better than this morning, but then it's not so good.'" ----------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-16 Least Significant We have all forgotten to honor the Least Significant Scientist of the Century. It's time to choose that person, and celebrate. Please send your vote for Least Significant Scientist of the Twentieth Century to ----------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-17 The Verdict on GM Crops Here are the results of our Scientific Correctness Survey about genetically modified ("GM") crops: 17% GM crops are beneficial and risk-free, and must not be restricted 17% GM crops are vile and dangerous, and must be banned 33% I am undecided, and therefore opt for Choice #1 33% I am undecided, and therefore opt for Choice #2 RANT RATING FOR THIS SURVEY: 52% of all respondents who included a comment used an exclamation point (!) As with all our Scientific Correctness Surveys, this one settles a complex issue by means of a simple public opinion survey. Now we can all either stop thinking about it or start thinking about it, as the case may be, and move on. ------------------------------------------------------------ 1999-11-18 Ancient Wisdom The holidays are approaching. A gift subscription to Annals of Improbable Research is cheap, and will display your generosity not once but six, twelve, or eighteen times (according to how many years the subscription runs). Best of all, it will let you say of your gift recipient: "He/she has been an AIRhead since the twentieth century!" (Sub info in section 1999-11-21 below) ----------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-19 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Bad Breath and Eye, Parrot Foot Research reports that merit a trip to the library. (For a much larger collection, see any issue of AIR.) INSIDE THE SAUSAGE "Mathematical description of the growth of Lactobacillus sake and Lactobacillus pentosus under conditions prevailing in fermented sausages," M. U. Doßmann, R. F. Vogel, and W. P. Hammes, Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, vol. 46, no. 4, 1996, pp. 334-9. (Thanks to Fiona Davies-McConchie for bringing this to our attention.) WETTING: AT THE BRINK "Observation of short-range critical wetting," D. Ross, D. Bonn, and J. Meunier, Nature, vol. 400, 1999, pp. 737-9. (Thanks to Madhusudan Katti for bringing this to our attention.) ------------------------------------------------------------ 1999-11-20 AIRhead Events ==> Want to host an event? Call or E-mail 617-491-4437. ==> For updates of this schedule, see http://www.improbable.com IG NOBEL RADIO BROADCAST ON SCIENCE FRIDAY FRI, NOV 26 Annual special Ig Nobel Broadcast -- a specially edited recording of the Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony, broadcast on the day after American Thanksgiving. The program is NPR's "Science Friday With Ira Flatow." For details (and/or to -maybe- listen via the Internet), see http://www.sciencefriday.com UNIV OF WATERLOO, ONTARIO TUES, DEC 7 2:30 pm. Details TBA. INFO: Dan Berry CHEMICAL INSTITUTE OF CANADA, TORONTO SECTION WED, DEC. 8 8:30 pm. Univ. of Toronto, Erindale Campus 3359 Mississauga Rd. AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will present an underview of improbable research. Includes the classic slide show "PROFESSOR LIPSCOMB Goes Shopping." INFO: Jack Clark UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO THURS, DEC. 9 4:00 pm. Physics Department. Colloquium with AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS. INFO: David Bailey 416-978-4993 NASW PLENARY SESSION (at AAAS), WASHINGTON Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 8-10 am. AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will be part of the National Association of Science Writers (NASW) plenary session panel, together with John Rennie, Steve Petranek, and John Benditt, editors in chief of Scientific American, Discover, and Technology Review. There will be brief, possibly spectacular review of the Ninth 1st Annual Ig Nobel Prizes. This event is open to NASW members only. Info; Mary Knudsen === 2000 === NEW MEXICO TECH, SOCORRO THURS, FEB 3 AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will present the latest news about improbable research and the Ig Nobel Prizes as part of the New Mexico Tech Performing Arts Series. INFO: Ronna Kalish (505) 835-5688 AAAS ANNUAL MEETING, WASHINGTON DC FRI, FEB 18 9:00 pm. AIR authors will present their traditionally improbable session at the American Association for the Advancement of Science's annual meeting. Featuring, admong others, AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS, "A Briefer History of Time" author ERIC SCHULMAN, and the more-or-less ORIGINAL CAST of one fo the Ig Nobel mini- operas starring mezzo- soprano MARGOT BUTTON and various Nobel laureates. Further details TBA. TUFTS VET SCHOOL, PHI ZETA AWARDS CEREMONY THURS, FEB 24 AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will inculcate the new awardees with the mysteries of improbable research. INFO: Don Brown 508-839-5395 X84655 NEW ENGLAND SKEPTICAL SOCIETY --YALE UNIV. SEPTEMBER Date and exact location TBA AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will discuss and illustrate the Ig Nobel Prizes and improbable Research in general. INFO: Jon Blumenfeld http://www.theness.com/member.html TENTH FIRST ANNUAL IG NOBEL PRIZE CEREMONY THURS, OCT 5 Sanders Theatre, Harvard University. Tickets will go in sale in August. |--- ADVANCE LISTING--| MEDICAL LIBRARY ASSOCIATION, UNIV OF UTAH SEPT 9-15, 2002 Exact date and location(s) TBA. AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will present a lecture on improbable research at a meeting of the Midcontinental Chapter of the Medical Library Association (MCMLA), and be part of a panel discussion on electronic publishing. INFO: Kathleen McCloskey 801/585-5743 -------------------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-21 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) Here's how to subscribe to the magnificent bi-monthly print journal The Annals of Improbable Research -- (the real thing, not just the little bits of overflow material you have been reading here in mini-AIR) ............................................................... Name: Address: Address: City and State: Zip or postal code: Country Phone: FAX: E-mail: ............................................................... USA 1 yr/$23 2 yrs/$39 3 yrs/$59 Canada/Mexico 1 yr/$27 US 2 yrs/$45 US 3 yrs/$67 US Overseas 1 yr/$40 US 2 yrs/$70 US 3 yrs/$99 US [Copies of back issues are each $8 in the USA, $11 in Canada/Mexico, $16 overseas.] ............................................................... Send payment (US bank check, or international money order, or Visa, Mastercard or Discover info) to: The Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 air@improbable.com ----------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-22 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) What you are reading right now is mini-AIR. Mini-AIR is a (free!) tiny monthly *supplement* to the bi-monthly print magazine. To subscribe, send a brief E-mail message to: LISTPROC@AIR.HARVARD.EDU The body of your message should contain ONLY the words SUBSCRIBE MINI-AIR MARIE CURIE (You may substitute your own name for that of Madame Curie.) ---------------------------- To stop subscribing, send the following message: SIGNOFF MINI-AIR ----------------------------------------------------- 1999-11-23 Our Address (*) Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 EDITORIAL: marca@chem2.harvard.edu SUBSCRIPTIONS: air@improbable.com WEB SITE: http://www.improbable.com/ --------------------------- 1999-11-24 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) Please distribute copies of mini-AIR (or excerpts!) wherever appropriate. The only limitations are: A) Please indicate that the material comes from mini-AIR. B) You may NOT distribute mini-AIR for commercial purposes. ------------------------------------------------------------ (c) copyright 1999, Annals of Improbable Research ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------- mini-AIRheads ------------- EDITOR: Marc Abrahams (marca@chem2.harvard.edu) MINI-PROOFREADER AND PICKER OF NITS (before we introduce the last few at the last moment): Wendy Mattson WWW EDITOR/GLOBAL VILLAGE IDIOT: Amy Gorin (airmaster@improbable.com) COMMUTATIVE EDITOR: Stanley Eigen (eigen@neu.edu) ASSOCIATIVE EDITOR: Mark Dionne CO-CONSPIRATORS: Gary Dryfoos, Ernest Ersatz, Craig Haggart, Nicki Rohloff MAITRE DE COMPUTATION: Jerry Lotto AUTHORITY FIGURES: Nobel Laureates Dudley Herschbach, Sheldon Glashow, William Lipscomb, Richard Roberts ============================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:21:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Funkhouser Subject: NEWARK REVIEW, Vol. 2, set 5 now available N E W A R K R E V I E W Vol. 2, set 5 is coursing across the Web features: M. Alexander Amiri Baraka Erin Burley Enid Dame Anne Fessenden Chris Funkhouser Theodore A. Harris Sumanth Janardhan Anne McMahon Deborah Meadows Rebecca Schmoyer Ed Smith Peter Tomassi http://megahertz.njit.edu/~newrev/v2s5 = ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:45:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: In the Dark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - In the Dark Where are you Je nnifer, who are you going out wi th, when I mean (think of) the state that N ikuko is going t o be in? that wh en the dance sto ps coming down the pike? D oes Doctor Leopo ld Konninger kno w much about thi s state of affairs? Tell me soon, Alan. gje nniefer goin ot stat nukuko tuo danc doctr leopold konningr kno stat tel But in fact she continues to dan ce because there 's no way out of stardom ballet, the pirouettes g oing on and on a nd on like beaut iful flying swan s. So she's movi ng like a maelst rom (crazy perso n, schizophrenic ) and garbling text ab out her now, say s Doctor Leopold Konninger. gjen niefer goin ot stat nuk uko tuo danc doc tr leopold konni ngr kno stat tel fac con- tinus danc becaw s therz fo danc poruets goin not hng shez malesto m garbl- ling tex sayz Le op Konninger __________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:52:35 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Haynes Subject: Question about Dionne Brand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anybody know where I can find internet resources on the poet Dionne Brand and the particular episode in her recent film "Sisters in the Struggle" that regarded the Caribbean women working in Canada. I'm especially interested in historical documentation and commentary in addition to Brand's. Also if anyone knows of additional films that touch on the topic of domestic labor in Canada, especially as it pertains to black/Caribbean women. thanks, bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:24:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Burger Subject: A reading in DC, 11/21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Chris Vitiello and Mary Burger read Sunday, Nov. 21, 3:00 p.m. at the Black Box Theater, DC Arts Center 2438 18th St. NW Washington DC 20009 Tel. (202) 462-7833 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:45:11 -0500 Reply-To: "Y." Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Y." Organization: Reality Sammich Subject: Death of Paul Bowles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fwd from: Randy Murakoshi-Barnwell > 18 November 1999 > > Hello ALL: Especialy media folks on the List... > > As some of you may have heard, the American writer Paul Bowles has passed > away thia morning. > > http://news2.thls.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid%5F526000/526429 .stm > > Paul was a dear friend of mine and mentor. We did several projects (CDs, > books) together in the late 80's and early 90's. We have remained friends > ever since I went to Morocco at his invitation in 1990. > > If I can be of reference assistance I would gladly help for any news or > publication. When it comes to Paul, I am what Japanese call "otaku" > (obssessed) > > www.istikhara.com or > > http://www.istikhara.com/consult/index.htm > > The news is very saddening. I was planning to see him in February 2000. > > Best, > Randall Murakoshi-Barnwell > www.istikhara.com > Director ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:39:18 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "P.Standard Schaefer" Subject: Rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In need of help. I've received a lot of reviews for the next issue of Rhizome which is good. Which is bad is more than one of them don't have names on them. Anywhere on them. Will the writer of the Anselm Berrigan or Cole Swensen or Laynie Brown reviews please contact ASAP. If I can't find the writers, I'll likely publish the reviews with my own editorial fixes (for those full of what I perceive as typos) and publish them anonymously so that the book being reviewed gets its due. Thanks. Standard Schaefer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:41:31 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: earliest american poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Surely the lyrics and verse composed by Seminole, Hopi, Navajo, Pima, Havasupai, Arapaho, Paiute, Nootka and other Indian sources, including your own adjacent Oneida and Mohawk Nations....were here first. Of couse if you're talking sole about colonialization and its European hubris...then that is something altogether. I may have misunderstood. All Best, Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:07:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baptiste Chirot Subject: [Y4M] Re: URGENT Demos: United With Vieques: Cities & Events across the Americas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE >=20 > >--------- Forwarded message ---------- > >From: Vieques Libre > >To: > >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:43:16 -0600 > >Subject: United With Vieques: List of Cities & > Events across the U.S. > >Message-ID: <199911180143.SM00157@f_marrero> > > > > . . . Seven months of struggle in Vieques... > > > >WE ARE MORE UNITED THAN EVER! > >WIDE FRONT OF SUPPORT FOR VIEQUES ON NOVEMBER 19, > 1999 > > > > > > . . this Friday November 19 more than fifteen > cities will have > >demonstrations against the > >bombing of Vieques. . . > > > >This past Saturday, President Clinton informed the > Governor of Puerto > >Rico that he may soon > >allow the US Navy to resume bombing in Vieques, > Puerto Rico, against the > >will of the people. A > >final decision has yet to be announced, but it is > imminent. Massive > >pro-Vieques demonstrations > >will be held this Friday in Vieques, as well as in > more than fifteen > >cities in the United States. This > >Friday marks the seventh month anniversary of the > death of Viequense > >civilian David Sanes as > >a result of a US Navy bomb dropped in Vieques. At > this critical > >juncture, all these cities will be > >having massive demonstrations in support of the > demands of the people of > >Vieques, that the US > >Navy leave Vieques now and not drop one more bomb > or fire one more bullet > >in Vieques. > > > > > >---------- > > > >Jersey City, NJ > >Vieques, Puerto Rico > >New York City, NY > >Washington, DC > >Hartford, CT > >Baltimore, MD > >Providence, RI > >Cambridge, MA > >San Francisco, CA > >Minneapolis, MN > >Philadelphia, PA > >Gainesville, FL > >Hanover, NH > >Cleveland, OH > > > >-------------- > > > >Jersey City, NJ > > > > > >Thursday November 18 > >Time: 6 pm > >Comit=C8 Pro Vieques, Puerto Rico de Hudson County is > organizing a March on > >November 18, > >1999 6pm from Roberto Clemente Little League Field > (6th and Manila > >Avenue) to Jersey City Hall > >(280 Grove Street.) Contact: Anthony Cruz > 201-7927609 > >Vieques Support Campaign - > ViequesSupport@worldnet.att.net > > > >19 de Noviembre de 1999 > >WE ARE MORE UNITED THAN EVER! > >SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR VIEQUES > >Vieques, Puerto Rico > >"Todo Puerto Rico Pa' Vieques" > >Habr=B7 movilizaci=DBn para Vieques desde el viernes 19 > de Noviembre. Para > >informaci=DBn llamar > >al 250-1588 o al localizador 333-3997.=DD > > > > > >New York City, NY > > > >Friday November 19 > >Time: 5 pm sharp > >Demonstration and picket in an afternoon of > world-wide solidarity for the > >immediate removal of > >the U.S. Navy from the island municipality of > Vieques, Puerto Rico!=DD > >Where: The Federal Building, 26 Federal Plaza > > (Broadway & Reade St. Downtown > Manhattan) > >Take N, R trains to City Hall or 4, 5, 6, J, M to > Brooklyn Bridge or > >Chambers > > > >Contact: Vieques Support Campaign - > ViequesSupport@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > > >Washington, DC > > > >Friday November 19 > >Time: 6:00PM > >Rally For Vieques in front of the White House > >(Lafayette Park-SW Quadrant and the White House > Sidewalk) > >6:00PM this Friday in front of the White House, > with drums, banners, > >picket signs, bull horns, etc., > >and demand from President Clinton once again, loud > and clear, that he > >must order the US Navy > >out of Vieques now and must not allow one more bomb > to be dropped or one > >more bullet to be > >fired in Vieques. Contact: Flavio Cumpiano, > Committee for the Rescue and > >Development of > >Vieques, Washington, DC (202-721-4688) - > cumpiano@HUGHESHUBBARD.COM > >[Flyer- Ready to Print & Distribute] > >In .doc format for Word > > > > > > > >Hartford, Connecticut > > > >Friday November 19 > >Time:3:30 PM > >Frente a la Corte Federal de Hartford > >In front of the Federal Court (450 Main Street) > >Contact: Iv=B7n Ramos - ivanr67@hotmail.com > >Todo Connecticut con Vieques:(860)342-0512 /(860) > 543-8575 > > > > > > > > > >Baltimore, MD > > > >Friday November 19 > >Time: 5:00PM > >Join the Vieques Support Campaign this Friday > -5PM-at the corner of > >Hanover and Lombard > >Streets (Federal Building) for a picket of > worldwide solidarity with > >Vieques! Demand the U.S. > >Navy leave the island immediately.=DD > >Contact: Organized by the Vieques Support > Campaign-Baltimore > >475 St. Brides Ct., Severna Park, MD 21146 > >Phone: (410)544-7943 > >oburlingame@hotmail.com > > > > > > > >Providence, Rhode Island > > > >Friday November 19 > >Time: 6:00PM > >Comit=C8 Todo Rhode Island Con Vieques (All of Rhode > Island With Vieques > >Committee) > >385 Westminster Street, Providence, RI 02903 (401) > 351-8159 > >Rally For Vieques in front of the Federal Court > >Kennedy Plaza, Providence, RI this Friday November > 19 at 6:00PM > > > >Contact: Francisco J. Cruz (401) 351-8159 - > AllRIwithVieques@aol.com > >[Flyer- Ready to Print & Distribute] > > > > > > > >Cambridge, MA > > > >Friday November 19 > >Time: 6:00-7:30PM=DD > >PEACE FOR VIEQUES VIGIL > >HARVARD YARD (IN FRONT OF JOHN HARVARD STATUE) > >HARVARD PRESS EXPECTED TO ATTEND > >HOT COFFE WILL BE SERVED-CAFE' CALIENTE > >COME AND HELP US STOP THE BOMBING OF VIEQUES, > PUERTO RICO!!! >=20 =3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a cure for the used car blues? iMotors pre-owned cars are: priced below Blue Book; fully tested & certified; &=20 carry a 7 day/700 mile money back guarantee. Look no further iMotors.com is here! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1535=20 Stop the execution! New trial for Mumia! Youth & Students for Mumia www.peoplescampaign.org * npcny@peoplescampaign.org To subscribe or unsubscribe email: youth-4-mumia-owner@egroups.com -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/youth-4-mumia/?m=3D1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:59:25 -0800 Reply-To: jim@vispo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Claire Dinsmore at Defib: hypertranscript available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The canned version of Claire Dinsmore at Defib is available at http://webartery.com/defib/pastevents.htm (also reachable from the webartery.com home page under "Defib Interviews"). This is a hypertranscript of the Sunday Nov 7/99 show with Claire as the featured Web artist. Claire recently launched Cauldron & Net, which features work by a wide range of writers and Web artists; the show looks at that online mag and closely at a wide range of Claire's own work. Thanks to Dan Waber for his production of the live show, and thanks to all who wrote it: Claire Dinsmore, Dan Waber, David Knoebel, Beth Garrison, Miekal And, Jennifer Ley, George Quasha, Talan Memmott, Bill Marsh, Reiner Strasser, Thomas Bell, and Skip Largent. Special thanks to Claire. It's an odd and leaping text--which is part of the energy of it--and hopefully an engaged/engaging, collaborative look at Claire's work. Regards, Jim Andrews ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 02:34:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII - Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konninger "A man at Auk went on the lake after firewood. On the way round it he saw a woman floating about. Her hair was long. Looking at her for some time, he saw that her little ones were with her. He took one of the children home. When it became dark they went to sleep. It was the child of the L!enAxxidAq, and that night it went through the town picking out people's eyes. Toward morning a certain woman bore a child. In the morning, when she was getting up, this [the L!enAxxidAq's child] came in to her into the house. The small boy had a big belly full of eyes. He had taken out the eyes of all the people. The woman to whom the small boy came had a cane. He kept pointing at her eyes. Then she pushed him away with the cane. When he had done it twice, she pushed it into him. He was all full of eyes. After she had killed him the woman went through the houses. Then she began to dress herself up. She took her child up on her back to start wandering. She said, 'I am going to be the L!enAxxidAq.' When she came down on the beach she kept eating mussels. She put the shells inside of one another. As she walks along she nurses her little child." (Swanton, Tlin- oing beaut iful movi ng maelst rom perso ab Konninger gjen niefer goin ot danc tr leopold konni ngr kno stat tel fac tinus danc Konn- inger russian ques goloid nijinsky's git Myths and Texts, #94.) What have we here. We have a MOTHER and an abducted CHILD who eats eyes. A second WOMAN may become the MOTHER after killing the CHILD. A second CHILD, of the woman, completes the transaction, and one must never forget MUSSELS look like EYES, said Doctor Leopold Konninger. Consider this the Devolution of NIKUKO, the beautiful Russian ballet dancer, who continues day and night after night and day to pirouette for him. She flickers in and out, her pirouettes brilliant coiled energy; it is this energy which creates the mutations and transformations that fascinate him. Doctor Leo- pold Konninger imagines Nikuko gathering eyes, bending - stooping! - for mussels; he is enraptured by the twists and deformations of her tutu as she steps into the tidal pools of Swanton enAxxidAq mornig enAxxidAq's dering enAxxidAq Swanton Tlin ab transac pold Konninger flickers pirou- ettes Konninger his imagination, "Did NIKUKO return his eyes?" ( "steps gingerly into the pools, bending, stooping! - stooping! - gath- ers sea-mussels, her eyes fixed, she's never dizzy, the slight scent of sea-water" ) _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:12:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: [Fwd: Daphne Marlatt--TCR Writer-in-residence] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol Hamshaw wrote: > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > The Capilano Review Writer-in-Residence > Fir 454, 2055 Purcell Way, North Vancouver > February 2000 > Info: 984-1712 > > Daphne Marlatt > > The Capilano Review's Writer-in-Residence Program > > In the first two weeks of February 2000, Daphne Marlatt will be present at > Capilano College in North Vancouver as The Capilano Review > Writer-in-Residence. Marlatt will be available for one-on-one consultation > to members, or anyone wishing to become a member, of The Capilano Press > Society (membership is $5). She will also be giving a public reading, in > conjunction with the launch of TCR's winter issue. > > West Coast poet and novelist Daphne Marlatt's most recent title is Readings > from the Labyrinth (NeWest Press, 1998), a collection of essays, letters > and journal entries over fifteen years. Her novel, Taken, appeared from > House of Anansi in 1996, and her previous novel, Ana historic (originally > published by Coach House Press, 1988), was reissued by Anansi in 1997. Lori > Saint-Martin and Paul Gagne's translation was published in Quebec as Ana > historique (les editions du remue-menage, 1992). Her poetry titles include > Salvage (1991), Ghost Works (1993), Touch to my Tongue (1984), and > Steveston (1974/84). > > She has been writer-in-residence at a number of universities in Canada and > has taught English and Women's Studies at Simon Fraser University, and the > Universities of British Columbia, Saskatchewan, and Victoria. Most recently > (1998-99), she has taught Creative Writing and Women's Studies at the > University of Saskatchewan. One of the founding editors of the bilingual > feminist journal Tessera, she has likewise co-edited several other little > magazines, as well as two oral histories of communities in and around > Vancouver. > > Support for this program has been received from The Province of British > Columbia, through the BC Gaming Commission, the Humanities Division of > Capilano College, and Capilano College. > > The Capilano Review is a literary and visual art magazine published at > Capilano College by The Capilano Press Society since 1972. The mandate of > The Capilano Review is to encourage and publish innovative poetry, fiction, > drama, and work in the visual media, in a format consistent with The > Review's cross-disciplinary focus. The emphasis is on original rather than > critical work. Reviews, interviews, and critiques may be printed from time > to time when these enhance the reader's insight into an artist's work, or > provide a context which furthers understanding and appreciation. > > Media, please call 984-1712 for a review copy of TCR. > > Carol L. Hamshaw > Managing Editor > The Capilano Review > 604-984-1712 > > http://www.capcollege.bc.ca/dept/TCR > > For submission guidelines, please see > > http://www.capcollege.bc.ca/dept/TCR/submit.html -- Carol L. Hamshaw Administrator Edgewise ElectroLit Centre http://www.edgewisecafe.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:41:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Standard: I'm the author of the review of Laynie Browne's "The Agency of Wind". Sorry for the inconvenience. I look forward to the next issue. Thank you. All Best, Gerald Schwartz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:49:30 -0500 Reply-To: clkpoet@ptdprolog.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Knoebel Subject: Announcement: Dream/Fall Comments: To: Webart , wr-eye-tings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A poetry installation in Shamokin PA http://home.ptd.net/~clkpoet/dream/dream.html -- David Knoebel -cranking out 2-3 words per day, every day, no matter what. http://www.clickpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 07:54:10 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit an answer to the question, Alan? Nikuko held Dr Konninger's eyes for a long time, but she was the first to look away. She held his eyes, never returned them, as she went on opening mussels. Tony -----Original Message----- From: Alan Sondheim To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, 20 November 1999 03:00 Subject: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger "Did NIKUKO return his eyes?" > >( "steps gingerly into the pools, bending, stooping! - stooping! - gath- >ers sea-mussels, her eyes fixed, she's never dizzy, the slight scent of >sea-water" ) > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:35:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: NAROPA UNIVERSITY WEB-BASED CLASSES / Seltz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="==========00165248==========" --==========00165248========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I was asked to forward this message to the list. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999 12:55 PM -0700 From: Colleen Seltz ANNOUNCING NAROPA UNIVERSITY WEB-BASED CLASSES FOR SPRING SEMESTER Experience Naropa=85from a distance. We are pleased to announce that registration is now open for our Spring Semester (which runs from January 18th to May 8th) web-based courses. A large selection of classes is available from the heart of our academic curriculum in the areas of Writing and Poetics, Environmental Leadership, Gerontology, Tibetan Language, Buddhism, Meditation, Religion and Psychology. Naropa University is a private, non-sectarian, fully accredited liberal arts college in Boulder, Colorado, characterized by a Buddhist inspired heritage and an unique contemplative approach to education. Naropa's Department of Writing and Poetics, inaugurated as the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics, 25 years ago by Allen Ginsburg and Anne Waldman, offers accredited BA and MFA degrees and hosts the internationally known Summer Writing Program each year. In Spring 2000 Naropa will be offering 7 Writing classes from the Department of Writing and Poetics curriculum, via the World Wide Web using the latest Internet technology. All classes are offered for academic credit and are available to non-degree students. Credits earned online may be applied to the degree program, upon acceptance and enrollment in the on-campus program, or transferred to other colleges in the same manner as any college credit. Please share this information with those that may be interested. For further information please visit our distance web site at http://ecampus.naropa.edu/. For complete course information please select the "Course Schedule" option on the horizontal toolbar. The classes in Writing for Spring Semester and the faculty are: Writer's Craft - Bill Scheffel The Art of The Essay: Exploring Creative Non-Fiction - Lee Christopher Rebel Angels - Lee Christopher Poetry Workshop: Great Companions - Lisa Jarnot Literature Seminar: The Feeling Tone - Bobbie Louise Hawkins Prose Workshop: Sculpting Prose -T. Burke, Jr. Dramatic Measures: The Craft of Writing for Stage and Screen - T. Burke, Jr. Thank you. Feel free to contact us at registrar@ecampus.naropa.edu should you have questions or comments. Sincerely, The Naropa Online Team ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- --==========00165248========== Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Announcement for the List" Return-Path: Delivered-To: poetics@mailhub.acsu.buffalo.edu Received: (qmail 20413 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 20:09:17 -0000 Received: from mail2.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.4) by mailhub with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 20:09:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 12573 invoked by uid 40481); 19 Nov 1999 20:09:16 -0000 Delivered-To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu Received: (qmail 12486 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 20:09:15 -0000 Received: from lungta.naropa.edu (204.131.68.1) by mail2 with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 20:09:15 -0000 Received: from naropa.edu (fa01.naropa.edu [204.131.68.31]) by lungta.naropa.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA15084 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:52:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3835AB20.5863CFD7@naropa.edu> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:55:13 -0700 From: Colleen Seltz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Announcement for the List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="==========00154209==========" --==========00154209========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Chris, A few months ago you generously offered to post an announcement to your list regarding Naropa's web-based writing classes. I am hoping that you could possibly post this follow up announcement for our Spring classes. Also Deena Wade our Communcations Director and also a student in our Writing Program, would like to join the list. How does she do this? Her email address is Deena@naropa.edu. Please email me if there is a problem with posting this. And thanks so much in advance for doing this. I think that it may be of interest to people. I am sending the announcement in the body of this email and also as an attachment. Thank you and Warm Regards, Colleen Seltz Coordinator of Naropa Online ANNOUNCING NAROPA UNIVERSITY WEB-BASED CLASSES FOR SPRING SEMESTER Experience Naropa…from a distance. We are pleased to announce that registration is now open for our Spring Semester (which runs from January 18th to May 8th) web-based courses. A large selection of classes is available from the heart of our academic curriculum in the areas of Writing and Poetics, Environmental Leadership, Gerontology, Tibetan Language, Buddhism, Meditation, Religion and Psychology. Naropa University is a private, non-sectarian, fully accredited liberal arts college in Boulder, Colorado, characterized by a Buddhist inspired heritage and an unique contemplative approach to education. Naropa's Department of Writing and Poetics, inaugurated as the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics, 25 years ago by Allen Ginsburg and Anne Waldman, offers accredited BA and MFA degrees and hosts the internationally known Summer Writing Program each year. In Spring 2000 Naropa will be offering 7 Writing classes from the Department of Writing and Poetics curriculum, via the World Wide Web using the latest Internet technology. All classes are offered for academic credit and are available to non-degree students. Credits earned online may be applied to the degree program, upon acceptance and enrollment in the on-campus program, or transferred to other colleges in the same manner as any college credit. Please share this information with those that may be interested. For further information please visit our distance web site at http://ecampus.naropa.edu/. For complete course information please select the "Course Schedule" option on the horizontal toolbar. The classes in Writing for Spring Semester and the faculty are: Writer's Craft - Bill Scheffel The Art of The Essay: Exploring Creative Non-Fiction - Lee Christopher Rebel Angels - Lee Christopher Poetry Workshop: Great Companions - Lisa Jarnot Literature Seminar: The Feeling Tone - Bobbie Louise Hawkins Prose Workshop: Sculpting Prose -T. Burke, Jr. Dramatic Measures: The Craft of Writing for Stage and Screen - T. Burke, Jr. Thank you. Feel free to contact us at registrar@ecampus.naropa.edu should you have questions or comments. 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAA= --==========00154209========== Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="colleen.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Colleen Seltz Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="colleen.vcf"; size=368 begin:vcard n:Seltz;Colleen tel;fax:303-245-4649 tel;work:303-546-3504 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.naropa.edu/ org:Naropa University adr:;;2130 Arapahoe Avenue;Boulder, CO 80302;http://www.naropa.edu/;; version:2.1 email;internet:colleen@naropa.edu title:Vice President of Enrollment Management x-mozilla-cpt:;-24960 fn:Colleen Seltz end:vcard --==========00154209==========-- --==========00165248==========-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:17:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: new on website & next week Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" New on the website: Up-to-date pages and information on the rapidly approaching ANNUAL NEW YEAR'S DAY MARATHON READING at the Poetry Project, January 1, 2000 http://www.poetryproject.com/ny2000.html and at the Tiny Press Center Jill Stengel's Letter to the Editor Jennifer Bartlett's Review of Duration Press and new mentions of tiny presses http://www.poetryproject.com/introtp.html ****** Next week Monday, November 22nd at 8 pm Eleni Stecopoulos & Erik Sweet Eleni Stecopoulos's poetry has appeared in Chain, Rampike, Kiosk, and other journals. Her essay on poetics and theory is forthcoming in Open Letter. Erik Sweet is the co-editor of Tool: A Magazine and has had work published in The Hat. Unfortunately, due to turkey, tofu-turkey & cranberry surpluses, a national holiday has been declared on Thursday, November 25th, so we have been obliged to have no readings on Wednesday, Nov. 24th and Friday, Nov. 25th. In addition, our offices will be closed Thurs & Fri, with all employees hibernating in their resuscitation chambers. However, we will return in full revivified glory the week after with readings by Douglas Goetsch & Jacqueline Waters (Mon., Nov. 29th at 8 pm); Michael Gottlieb & Jen Robinson (Wed., Dec. 1 at 8 pm); and Lydia Lunch & Nicole Blackman (Fri., Dec. 3 at 10:30 pm--yes, _the_ Lydia Lunch!). ***** The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church, at the corner of 10th St. and 2nd Ave. in New York City. All events, unless otherwise noted, are $7, $4 for students. Wheelchair access to Poetry Project events is possible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information. **** If you would like to be removed from this e-mail list, respond to this message with "Please remove me" and we will be sure to do so. *** Have a very wonderful Thanksgiving, all of you... ** * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:01:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: re Bromige And the Provinces Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom (& listmates), no offense was intended. I think of myself as being in somewhat the situAtion you, Tom, "enjoy," now that it hurts my feet so much to drive the hour and A quarter to sf/bkly. The poetic k'edge available in sonoma county, witha few shining exceptions, is not enough to keep a flea alive. People will not be au courant, and continue to write poems saying "the sheep are on fire!" I dunno why of all persons you, Tom, shd read my post for condescension. Should suppose I cast a blanket upon the boonies to snuff the light of a Tom beckett. Dont you know me better than that? My point was (I think) that not all regionalism is gonna be okay. David ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 05:31:09 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Bob Cobbing etc Comments: To: British Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apologies for cross-posting Cobbing & Upton - Barbican 19 11 99 a note by Upton Bob Cobbing and Lawrence Upton performed from Domestic Ambient Noise at the Arts Book Fair at The Barbican, London on 19 11 99 (5 pm - 5.15 pm) The performance was one of a series running throughout the fair called "Book Activation". The contents of books are displayed in front of the audience via a video camera. The texts used were time goes as bought (Writers Forum 1999 ISBN 0 86162 912 4) and barbacana (Writers Forum 1999 ISBN 0 86162 913 2), two new issues of D.A.N., made for the book fair. Only one book could be displayed at a time. The plan had been to fight over which book was displayed, Upton promoting time goes as bought and Cobbing promoting barbacana, with the text in camera-view being the one to be performed. Unfortunately, the arrangement of lectern, microphone stands and camera angle did not permit this, so Cobbing controlled both books at the lectern, switching them quite rapidly at times. Upton stood behind him, responding to Cobbing and reading from his own copy of as time goes as bought and from the screen, the latter sometimes showing barbacana. At one point Cobbing pointed to the book, first here and then there, so that his finger appeared on the screen and both performed what he pointed at. The performance was well-attended and well-received. Both old gits perform again Saturday, 20 November 1999 at 3.30. time goes as bought and barbacana will be performed again, but more briefly. Also to be launched / performed are: Traces by Peter French (Writers Forum 1999 ISBN 0 86162 972 2) and two new publications by Bob Cobbing put out by Nicholas Johnson: kob bok: selected text of bob cobbing (1949-1999) (ISBN 1 901538 27 3) Etruscan books - can't remember the price & shrieks & hisses: collected poems volume sixteen (ISBN 1 901538 26 5) Etruscan books £5 available from Peter Riley in UK, Collected Works in Australia and SPD in USA - according to the information in the books no time yet to pay any attention to them beyond seeing that they are handsome production jobs L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:42:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Amy Holman / Fouhy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following message came to the administrative account. From the www site indicated: "Mt. Kisco, NY: The Creative Arts Cafe at the Northern Westchester Center for the Arts will feature poet Amy Holman on Monday, November 22, at 7:30 PM. Amy Holman recently read segments of her work in October at NWCA=B9s Writers=B9 Resource Symposium which she helped organize with Cindy Beer-Fouhy, Director of Literary Arts. Ms Holman was invited to return as a feature for the Caf=E9=B9s Poetry Series. A = reception and open mike will follow." Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sat, Nov 20, 1999 3:07 AM -0500 From: George Fouhy This web site gives all the information about Amy Holman's reading http://www.bestweb.net/~cindyf/poetry_2000.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:26:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: Provincialism, regionalism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pete Spence (& listmates), it's difficult to see how Pete's pence were well spent labeling my appellation "sunday painters" (for writers who will not learn their history) as "pedantry." A pedant, surely, even in Pete's pants, is one who insists on UNnecessary studies. I am really surprised (though shouldn't be : I think too well of people) how quickly those who live in the boonies (outbeck, I 'speck, in Pete's pens) bristle up at the plain truth....Why take it personally? I simply commented on a backwardness of ambience. I wouldnt know whether it applied to Pete's case until I saw some of his poetry. In Tom Beckett's case, what was more puzzling was that he only got minatory with me AFTER agreeing that it's tough to write in Dodge, which was my basic plaint. Sometimes I get the feeling that I am not read carefully even on this List, which I had hoped was a better place to look for such care, than where I live here in wine-hog heaven. Look at my post again to see it is no individual I target, but a backward condition of endeavor. From which wish who may can exempt himself...in Tom's case, on the evidence; in Pete's case, for Pete's sake, presumably through his practice, soon to be known to us city-slickers of the net, one trusts (or is already, and I, the provincial in this respect). I expect the X=Spence equation resolved quickly, so that the one impression I have of his writerly powers, can extend beyond a feeble eye-pun. David ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 01:26:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: re name thAt quote Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>>Hello Poetics, >>>Another one of my damnable queries. Does anyone recognize the author/source >>>of the following? >>> >>>"A dominant ideological formation is constituted by a relatively coherent >>>set of 'discourses' of values, representations and beliefs which, realised >>>in certain material apparatuses and related to the structures of material >>>production, so reflect the experiential relations of individual subjects to >>>their social conditions as to guarantee those misperceptions of the 'real' >>>which contribute to the reproduction of the dominant social relations" (54). >> >> >>I dont know, but it is obviously a satirical jab at contemporary critical >>jargon. >> >> That's right, George....shouldn't it read "apparati"? And if there are to be scare quotes around "discourses" and "real," why not around "realised," "reflect" and "relations" ? So, already we know its author is far from thorough, and no norte americano (or do Canadians drop the z when they realize something, as their British cousins do?) David ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:20:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ART ELECTRONICS Subject: ROME / TOTAL THEATRE / Intermedial Areas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ASSESSORATO ALLE POLITICHE CULTURALI COMUNE DI ROMA Dipartimento Cultura - Spettacolo ____________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ "Total Theatre - Exhibition of the National Centre of Drammaturgia" 1999 Intermedial Areas From 25 to 28 November 1999 - Teatro Greco, ROME LECTURES: Ugo Ronfani ( President of the National Association of the Theatre Critics, Director of Hystrio ); Nico Garrone ( La Repubblica Newspaper); Lucio Chiavarelli ( Prima Fila Magazine ); Gianna Gelmetti ( Sipario Magazine ); Giovanni Antonucci ( Historian of Theatre ); Simonetta Lux ( La Sapienza University ); Enrica Tonelli Landini ( Tuscia University ); Bartolomè Ferrando ( Valencia University ); Paolo Guzzi ( Critic of Theatre of the cultural magazines "Zeta" and "Karenina.it"). PERFORMANCE BY: - Fabio Mauri (Italy). - Bartolomè Ferrando (Spain) VIDEO POETRY AND VIDEO PERFORMANCE - International Digital VIDEOS "Video Space" curated by Caterina Davinio e Julien Blaine EXPERIMENTAL THEATRE - Ascanio Celestini, Compagnia del Montevaso. - Ugo Ronfani, Compagnia e regia di Walter Manfrè. - Cesare Milanese, Alfio Petrini. - Accademia Filarmonica / Burattinimusica. - Compagnia Idee di Velluto. VISUAL ART - Exhibition curated by Giancarlo Canepa. ORGANIZATION Coop. La Camera Rossa Associazione Culturale Il Cerchio Magico Fondazione Centro Nazionale di Drammaturgia "Teatro Totale". Direttore artistico: Alfio Petrini. -- KARENINA.IT karenina.IT Experimental Web-Zine Directed by Caterina Davinio http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/7323/kareninarivista.html Davinio Art Electronics - Archives/Videotheque / Rome / Milan Art Electronics and Other Writings http://space.tin.it/arte/cprezi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:53:40 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Maria L. Zavialov" Organization: IREX/IATP Subject: class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Suddenly i remembered that I should know about working class a lot. I was thoroughly drilled in marxism and leninism all through many years of school and university back in the 70s in the Soviet Union. Working class, proletariat, is a class which has no share in means of production and has to sell his labor to go on living, it's physical labor they sell, their muscular energy. To be a working class you have to be engaged in the production of goods and foods and work in industry. M.Z. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 17:55:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brendan Lorber Subject: LUNGFULL!8: The Stakes are Big... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable . . .& The Mistakes are Bigger. Here at LUNGFULL! Magazine, where the name goes on before the quality goes in, we are delighted to announce the release of issue number eight. To mark this occasion it's THE LUNGFULL MAGAZINE RELEASE PARTY & GALA READING SPECTACULAR to which YOU are now invited. THURSDAY 2 DECEMBER 1999 at 8:30pm SHARP! (forgive the yelling, but I get very enthusiastic about times & dates) at SEGUE SPACE (& about places) 303 east 8th Street between Avenues B&C Admission? I admit nothing! ADMISSION IS FREE Soothing refreshments & laminated Magazines will be served Hop a cheap flight to New York City, then take the F Train to 2nd Avenue or the 6 to Astor Place or the N/R to 8th Street & then follow the crowds of literati & their fans. Appearing will be: Eileen Myles Bill Kushner Sparrow Betsy Andrews Donna Cartelli Jen Robinson Tom Savage Lytle Shaw Jordan Davis Andrew Epstein Betsy Fagin Joanna Fuhrman Noelle Kocot Brendan Lorber Mike Topp Susan Maurer & others In the issue itself? Indran Amirthanayagam, Betsy Andrews, Michael Basinski, Bill Berkson, Elisa Biagini, Donna Cartelli, Jeff Conant, Jordan Davis, Buck Downs, Andrew Epstein, Brett Evans, Betsy Fagin, Joanna Fuhrman Ken Hunt, Noelle Kocot, Tuli Kupferberg, Richard Kostelanetz, Bill Kushner, Brendan Lorber, Susan Marshall, Chris McCreary, Edward Mycue, Thomas Nousias, Mark Pawlak, Richard Martin, Susan Maurer, Jen Robinson, Tom Savage, Eileen Myles, Hoa Nguyen, Lytle Shaw, Julie Sloane, Ken Raines, Julie Reid, Sparrow, Mike Topp PLUS Letters & Poems to the Editor from people claiming to be: Jewel, Albert DeSilver, Chris McCreary, Allen Bramhall, Jeff Nelson, Ahimsa Timoteo Bodhr=E1n & Eddie Berrigan. Also a manifesto from the editor, a rejection letter to the editor & an attempted coup from Asheville, North Carolina. =46or more information call us at LUNGFULL! World Headquarters deep within a secret volcano in Central Park 212.533.9317 or give lungfull@interport.net a whirl As always I remain the humble busboy of your heart, Brendan Lorber Editor & Publisher LUNGFULL! Magazine ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 15:11:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New Small Press Publications List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This weeks Small Press Publications List is now online @ Duration Press. http://www.durationpress.com/announce/announcements.html Publishers wishing to have their new / recent publications included in the next listing (Dec 3rd deadline), should send all information (titles, authors, prices, contact information, etc.) to jerrold@durationpress.com We've been doing this for 2 months, & would like to thank all the publishers who have contributed to this project. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 22:45:13 -0500 Reply-To: joris@csc.albany.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Paul Bowles In-Reply-To: <19991118171857.81441.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is a more detailed obit for Paul Bowles, from yesterday's Manchester Guardian: Paul Bowles Obituary Gary Pulsifer Friday November 19, 1999 The Guardian Much-travelled American writer and composer who made his home in Morocco, the setting for his best-known novel, The Sheltering Sky, Paul Bowles, who has died aged 88, found inspiration from a long association with Morocco and her peoples. His semi-autobiographical novel, The Sheltering Sky, filmed in 1990 by Bertolucci, was one of the seminal novels of mid-20th century American fiction, while his musical compositions, lighter in mood, were critical and commercial successes on Broadway. It was Gertrude Stein who first suggested that "Freddy" Bowles should visit Morocco. "You don't want to go to Ville Franche. Everybody's there. And St Jean-de-Luz is empty and with an awful climate. The place you should go is Tangier. Alice and I've spent three summers there, and it's fine." In 1931, Bowles and his mentor, the American composer Aaron Copland, took a villa overlooking the Strait of Gibraltar, but it was not until 1947 that Bowles and his wife Jane settled permanently in Morocco. Paul Bowles was born on Long Island. Family legend had it that his father Claude, a successful dentist, placed his six-week-old only child in a basket before an open window during a snowstorm. Certain death was avoided by the discovery of the naked infant by his maternal grandmother. In any event, Bowles senior was a strict disciplinarian: the young Bowles was forced at mealtimes to chew each mouthful of food at least 40 times, following the practice of Horace Fletcher, the "Moses of Mastication". Bowles's mother Rena, on the other hand, read him works by Nathaniel Hawthorne and Edgar Allan Poe as bedtime stories. Bowles cited Poe as a particular influence, even choosing to attend the university of Virginia in 1927, as this had been Poe's college. Although Bowles made the dean's list during his first term, he was not cut out for university life in a sleepy southern town and, without a word to his family, he set sail for France, travelling on an old Dutch steamer. In Paris he worked briefly as a switchboard operator at the Herald Tribune but soon returned to New York, taking a job at Dutton's Bookshop on Fifth Avenue. Already Bowles's poetry was appearing in the Paris-based surrealist magazine, transition, alongside the work of André Breton, James Joyce and Gertrude Stein. He began studying composition with Copland and guest-edited one issue of his university's magazine, soliciting a contribution from Stein. In 1931, when Bowles returned to Paris, he visited the legendary American author and art collector at her home at 27 Rue de Fleurs. "I was sure from your letters that you were an elderly gentleman of at least 75," said Stein. "A highly eccentric elderly gentleman," added her companion Alice B Toklas. Through Stein's circle, in the space of two weeks Bowles met Jean Cocteau, Ezra Pound, Virgil Thompson, Pavel Tchelitchew and André Gide, before going with Copland to Berlin. There, Bowles came into contact with Stephen Spender, Christopher Isherwood and Jean Ross, Isherwood's model for Sally Bowles in Goodbye to Berlin. Back in Paris, Bowles took a studio in the same building as Virgil Thompson, who found him "a dazzling blond. We became very good friends... He started playing me his music as we got acquainted. It was absolutely charming, sweet, school of Ravel." Bowles was a pupil of Nadia Boulanger in Paris for some months, but his primary musical training was under Copland and Thompson. The following year, Bowles trekked across the Sahara by camel. He then rented a house in Tangier, using it as a studio for piano composition. (Bowles shared the house with Djuna Barnes, who began writing Nightwood here.) His Sonata for Oboe and Clarinet, inspired by a Kurt Schwitters poem, was heard at the Aeolian Hall in London, while his Sonatina for Piano had been performed in New York. By 1935 he had met the choreographer George Balanchine, who commissioned Bowles to compose Yankee Clipper for his dance company. Bowles's increasing reputation as a composer led to lucrative work on Broadway and he would go on to compose the music for a number of Broadway productions, including Lillian Hellman's Watch on the Rhine; the stage version of South Pacific; Jacobowsky and the Colonel, directed by Elia Kazan; and John Ford's Jacobean tragedy 'Tis Pity She's a Whore. He wrote the incidental music for Tennessee Williams's plays The Glass Menagerie, The Milk Train Doesn't Stop Here Anymore, Sweet Bird of Youth and Summer and Smoke; while Williams got him a job as screenwriter on Visconti's film Senso (although the Italian director had Williams rewrite Bowles's sex scenes). Altogether, Bowles created 150 original musical compositions. In 1943 his zarzuela The Wind Remains, based on a surrealist tragicomedy by Lorca, received its premiere at MOMA in New York, with choreography by Merce Cunningham and Leonard Bernstein conducting. Bowles also composed the music for a ballet based on Verlaine's poem Colloque Sentimental with sets by Salvador Dali. Commented Newsweek: "Paul Bowles's beautiful score was wrecked by Dali's usual outlandish weirdness." It was in 1937 that Bowles met the Jewish lesbian writer Jane Auer, at a party in Harlem. Jane recalled: "He wrote music and was mysterious and sinister. The first time I saw him I said, he's my enemy." Nevertheless, Paul and Jane and another couple travelled by bus to Mexico; Bowles went on to Guatemala. (Before the trip, Bowles had printed 15,000 stickers bearing the legend "Death to Trotsky" which he distributed throughout Mexico, where the exile was living.) On February 21 1938, Paul and Jane were married in a Dutch Reform Church in New York, on the eve of Jane's 21st birthday. They honeymooned in Central America, travelling to Panama on a Japanese freighter with two steamer trunks, 18 large valises and a gramophone - a parrot was acquired en route. Their honeymoon continued in Costa Rica, where they stayed at a cattle ranch, before they set sail to France on a ship filled with German Nazi sympathisers. So began the years of travel for the Bowleses, sometimes together, often apart. That autumn found the couple back in New York at the Chelsea Hotel. They joined the Communist party; later, when Paul tried to leave, the organisation informed him he could only be expelled. By 1941, they were living in Brooklyn with WH Auden, Peter Pears and Benjamin Britten; Britten kept his piano in the living room while Paul practised on his in the cellar. Bowles was awarded a $2500 Guggenheim fellowship to compose his opera Yerma, and Virgil Thompson offered him a job as assistant music critic on the New York Herald Tribune, a position he held for four years. Bowles was led back to Morocco in 1947 by a vivid dream of Tangier. In the wake of the war, Tangier was an "international zone" governed by seven Western powers, and the city was notorious for its lax morals and louche lifestyle. The Bowleses' marriage, however, was curious even by the standards of jaded Tangerines. Jane established a number of affairs with women friends, most notably with Cherifa, an 18-year-old grain-seller. Many people (her husband included) saw this illiterate peasant woman as a malign influence. Bowles interested himself in a number of young Moroccan men, whose oral fiction he went on to translate from Maghrebi and classical Arabic. For one young Moroccan protegé, Ahmed Yacoubi, he arranged exhibitions of his paintings. Eventually the Bowleses took separate apartments in a building near the American consulate, leading semi-independent lives but usually meeting for dinner. While Paul found creative inspiration in his Moorish surroundings, for Jane, cut off from her American roots, Morocco became a cultural wasteland. She did not complete any new work while in Morocco; indeed her output was limited to a couple of highly praised novels, one play and one or two other writings. Instead, she threw her sparkling personality into a Tangier social scene orchestrated by the Hon David Herbert. Too many evenings spent drinking at the Parade Bar, mixed with a careless use of prescribed medicines, resulted in a stroke in 1956; she was eventually confined to a nursing home in Malaga, where she died in 1973. After Jane's death, Paul's output was to dwindle. "Her death was a terrible ordeal, as it was half of myself that I lost. I no longer wanted to do anything at all." Paul Bowles became interested in writing fiction when he went over the manuscript of Jane's novel Two Serious Ladies prior to its US publication. The plot of his most celebrated novel, The Sheltering Sky, came to him while on a bus in New York. It was published in 1949 by New Directions and became an immediate bestseller. (It was originally commissioned by Doubleday, who then turned it down as "not a novel".) Bowles described the novel to his American publisher James Laughlin as "an adventure story in which the adventures take place on two planes simultaneously; in the actual desert, and in the inner desert of the spirit... The occasional oasis provides relief from the natural desert, but the sexual adventures fail to provide relief." Many readers, including Jane, saw the central characters of Port and his wife Kit as based on the Bowleses themselves. The following year, a short-story collection by Bowles appeared under the title The Delicate Prey (US) and A Little Stone (UK). The British edition, published by John Lehmann, was notable for its omission of two stories, Pages from Cold Point, later described by Norman Mailer as "a seduction of father by a son and one of the best stories written by anyone", and A Distant Episode, which climaxes in a chilling castration. Tennessee Williams told Bowles that the latter was "a wonderful story but if you publish it you're mad. Everyone is going to think you are some sort of horrible monster." Cyril Connolly and Somerset Maugham advised Lehmann not to include either story on the grounds that they would not be passed by the censor. Bowles's next novel, Let It Come Down, charts the disintegration of Nelson Dyer, a bank clerk from New York who has settled in Tangier. Where The Sheltering Sky focused on the Saharan desert, Let It Come Down centred on the Moroccan capital and the corruption of life under the international zone. Bowles had taken majoun, a jam made from cannabis, to write Port's death scene in The Sheltering Sky and in his second novel he has Dyer descend into Spanish Morocco and a madness induced in part by a "kif" haze. The Spider's House, set in the medieval city of Fez, is the most overtly political of Bowles's novels. It examines the relationship between Amar, a 15-year-old Moroccan boy, and three foreigners, an American writer (with overtones of Bowles), a rich English painter and an American divorcee. Bowles used the novel, which opens in 1954 during the holy month of Ramadan, to explore the shifting relationship between the colonial power of the French and the rising tide of Moroccan nationalism. Up Above the World, his final novel, concerns the doomed trajectory of an American couple in an unnamed Central American country. Bowles compared it to the writings of Graham Greene and Gide, calling it "light" entertainment, which it is not. He went on to publish several short-story collections, including A Hundred Camels in the Courtyard, set in Morocco and with an underlying theme of kif smoking. Other works include the travel writing of Their Heads Are Green and Their Hands Are Blue; Points in Time, a journey through the Moroccan centuries; and an enigmatic autobiography, Without Stopping, dubbed "Without Telling" by William Burroughs. A novella, Too Far From Home, set in Mali, was well received on publication in 1994. In later years, when his own creative output had diminished, Bowles translated a number of Moroccan oral storytellers including Mohammed Mrabet, Mohamed Choukri, Abdeslam Boulaich and Larbi Layachi. Some western critics accused Bowles of writing these tales himself, an accusation he always strongly denied. One or two of these storytellers, with an exaggerated sense of the sales potential of their books, would later allege that Bowles was pocketing their royalties. In fact, Bowles was always a soft touch when it came to his close Moroccan male friends - although less so to others on occasion. Other translations included Sartre's play Huis Clos (Bowles came up with the English title, No Exit); The Oblivion Seekers, by Isabelle Eberhardt; and several novels by the Guatemalan writer Rodrigo Rey Rosa. Decades earlier, Bowles was the recipient of a Rockefeller grant to record Moroccan folk music; the tapes are in the Library of Congress in Washington. Bowles was to travel some 25,000 miles around his adopted country, making 250 recordings of a diverse range of local music. Paul Bowles was an intensely private man, possessed of a dry New England sense of humour and a capacity for friendship which was at odds with his public persona as a detached, often aloof, observer. Much of late 20th-century human behaviour frankly baffled him. Through his books he created a vision of Morocco uniquely his own. In old age he continued to live in the same run-down Tangier apartment block, the Immeuble Itesa, receiving visitors and fans from around the world (and the world came to Bowles) with little complaint. Having lived for many years without a telephone, his last concession to technical intrusion was the installation of a fax machine, the number of which was made available to a select group of intimates. Having travelled little in later years, he flew to Paris for the opening of The Sheltering Sky and returned again for a concert of his music, lunching with President Mitterrand at the Elysée palace. Paul Frederick Bowles, writer and composer, born December 30 1910; died November 18 1999 © Copyright Guardian Media Group plc. 1999 ________________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris The postmodern is the condition of those 6 Madison Place things not equal to themselves, the wan- Albany NY 12202 dering or nomadic null set (0={x:x not-equal x}). Tel: (518) 426-0433 Fax: (518) 426-3722 Alan Sondheim Email: joris@csc.albany.edu Url: ____________________________________________________________________________ _ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:43:37 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: Business, class, access MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit There are a few things to bring out for Joe's post. Sure there are class distinctions, and Kathy makes a good point with how "the homeless, the poor and elderly, the rural poor, the working poor are all examples of invisible classes." which seems to create part of the problem in differentiation. While this is information, where to go with it from here, what to bring forth? For me, its about victimization and restigmatization of individuals. When a recent stat suggests that the poverty of women who are single parents, even if they lived and combined income with the child's father, in two thirds of the cases would still be below the poverty line, unchanged, the question becomes one of marketing. In the duration of flipping the societal coin of answer towards one or the other issue, the solution is unfounded and yet is marketed as one. Literacy was always bound up in what people want and now that they have been told they can have what they want, at any time, they want it. The wanting is the hardest part. And yet, apparently editors, through their marketing methods, reinforce this socio-economic restigmatization. The question becomes one of method, as Stephen says: The rhetoric of setting apart also involves that sense of "sacrifice" meaning "to make sacred" - "sacred - to set apart in honor of". The way poetry titles are mentioned, for example, Lesbian & Gay, Latino, Native-American etc. Is this done with honorable intent? Or is it necessary for publishers to categorize a writer as a method to move product? It seems the second or else the unthought repetition of what everyone else is doing. Is there some other effective way, without labeling, to get things out there? I think there is and marketed Will Alexander's book as a *poetry title*. Nothing more. No mention of class, race, photos and so on. Unfortunately division implies opposition to the thing divided. The quote I brought forth was intended to deal with Will not Erica Hunt, which is a clarity mistake on my part. One of the ways Alexander's pages complicates and interrogates the notion of "black identity;" is by rendering it neuter, a null set, unless a publisher mentions race as a selling point. The references contained within the book might give a hint, but no solid backing to an assertion. One might assume more readily, for example, he is a scientist from the subject material. As for essentializing the Mullen essay, I doubt it, it is only 3 pages, and almost a fourth appeared in the last quote, unless this has appeared somewhere else, not mentioned in the Booglite issue. The essay itself is essentialized by the length perhaps. Questioning the criteria of cannonization is part of the evaluation, which as mentioned, Aldon does in Black Chant, gives plenty to discuss, but what about a further questioning of publishers' individual marketing methods beyond anthologies? Are these concepts transferrable? Where does the differentiation lie? Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:52:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Double Happiness NYC - Upcoming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Segue @ Double Happiness DECEMBER, JANUARY 1999-2000 Readings Saturdays from 4:00 to 6:00 pm. Double Happiness is located at 173 Mott Street, just south of Broome in China Town. A 4$ contribution goes to the readers. The coordinator for this series is Charles Borkhuis. Continuing support of this series is provided by the Segue Foundation. Funding is made possible by support from the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. DECEMBER 4: PAUL HOOVER, ANN LAUTERBACH Paul Hoover's most recent poetry collections are Totem and Shadow: New & Selected Poems (Talisman House) and Viridian (University of Georgia Press). He is also editor of the anthology Postmodern American Poetry (W.W. Norton) and the literary magazine New American Writing. Ann Lauterbach's five collections of poetry include (Penguin Books): On A Stair, And for Example, and Clamor. She is a recipient of a 1993 Mac Arthur Fellowship. DECEMBER 11: TIM DAVIS, MICHAEL GIZZI Tim Davis has published poems in Fruit of the Jews, Rectumry, Agida, Temple Breath, Half-a-Crumb Monthly, and Mouthful of Burrs, and has critical work forthcoming in Tabula Moustache and Too Wit. His book Dailies, might be out by the time he reads here, but if not, he'll be selling signed sandwiches and fingerprinted cans of Lemon Pledge. Michael Gizzi's most recent books are No Both (Hard Press/The Figures, 1997) and Too Much Johnson (The Figures, 1999). In Gizzi's case, hearing is close to believing. DECEMBER 18: ED ROBERSON, GARRETT KALLEBERG Ed Roberson is the author of six volumes of poetry, one of which, Voices Cast Out To Talk In, was the 1995 winner of the Iowa Poetry Prize; another, Atmosphere Conditions (Sun & Moon) was a 1998 National Poetry Series Winner. Roberson is also a recipient of the Lila Wallace-Reader's Digest Writers Award. Garrett Kalleberg is the author of Limbic Odes. His poetry and criticism have appeared in Sulfur, American Letters & Commentary, Mandorla, First Intensity, Denver Quarterly and elsewhere. He edits and publishes The Transcendental Friend and Immanent Auto from Brooklyn, NY. DECEMBER 25 & JANUARY 1: HOLIDAY WEEKENDS -- NO READINGS -- HAPPY 2000! JANUARY 8: EILEEN MYLES, CYNTHIA HOGUE Eileen Myles is a midtown poet. She's written thousands of poets since 1974 when she arrived in NY. Her latest book of poems, School of Fish won her a Lambda Book Award. Cynthia Hogue's third collection of poetry, The Never Wife, is just out from Mammoth Press. She is completing a new ms. entitled The Incognito Body, and co-editing an anthology of critical essays on innovative women's writing. She directs the Stadler Center for Poetry at Bucknell University, where she teaches English. JANUARY 15: LEE BREUER, HEATHER FULLER Lee Breuer, writer, director, and founding member of Mabou Mines, is the recipient of several Obies and a Mac Arthur Award. His plays include: The Shaggy Dog Animation, Hajj, Prelude to Death in Venice, The Warrior Ant, Gospel at Colonus, and Epidog. Heather Fuller is the author of perhaps this is a rescue fantasy (Edge Books, 1997) and C Ration Dog & Pony (Like Books, 1999) and edits poetry and book reviews for The Washington Review. JANUARY 22: MARK WALLACE, BUCK DOWNS Mark Wallace is the author of 10 books and chapbooks of poetry, including Nothing Happened and Besides I Wasn't There (Edge Books) and Sonnets of a Penny-a-Liner (Buck Downs Books). His Temporary Worker Rides a Subway won the New American Poetry Award and is forthcoming from Sun and Moon. He lives in Washington, DC. Buck Downs was born in Ellisville, Mississippi and now lives in Washington, DC, where he is a Senior Editor for Columbia Books, Inc. His first collection of poems, marijuana softdrink, was published by Edge Books in 1998. JANUARY 29: KRISTIN PREVALLET, CYDNEY CHADWICK, MICHELLE MURPHY Kristin Prevallet's chapbook Selections from the Parasite Poems was recently published by Barque Press. Her essays and poems have appeared in Jacket, Sulfur, Boxkite, Object, and Torque. She recently edited and wrote an introduction for a selection of ballads and collages by the poet Helen Adam. Cydney Chadwick is the author of seven books and chapbooks. Her writing has been translated into French, Russian, Spanish and Portuguese. She has been the director of Avec publications since 1988. Michelle Murphy's book of prose poems, Jackknife & Light (Avec Books) was a recent finalist in the Pen/West Literary Awards. Murphy's work has been translated in numerous US journals as well as in Russia and Japan. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:54:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Duration Press address? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Looking for Duration Press postal address. Thanks, Katy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:46:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: poetry web site / Fouhy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Mon, Nov 22, 1999 12:48 AM -0500 From: George Fouhy I just developed a web site for the poetry series. Let me know what you think. Update will include poetry and writers workshop links.... See you Monday! Cindy http://www.bestweb.net/~cindyf/poetry_2000.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:46:21 -0500 Reply-To: Ron Silliman Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Mac Low wins the Tanning! Comments: cc: Jackson Mac Low MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had this in yesterday's paper: The country's biggest cash award for poetry, the $100,000 Tanning Prize, was pocketed by Jackson MacLow earlier this month. MacLow, 77, has written 26 books, the most recent, "Barnesbook," in 1995. He's also a painter and performance artist. ---- Like Creeley and the Bollingen recently -- it is so very rare that one of this awards organizations gets it right that it nearly takes the top of your head off when it happens. But the Tanning folks, whomever they may be, have gotten this one right. Even if the Post-Gazette doesn't recognize the space between Mac and Low. Congratulations to Jackson for whom such honors are only a few decades overdue! Ron Silliman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:52:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: e u y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit E U Y by Miekal And xexoxial editions west lima wi 1986 _________________________________________ a zaumist biography of Alexsei Kruchenykh "Zaumniks all of us!" -kruchenykh _________________________________________ this book was written & designed by Miekal And Christmas 1985 & is in actuality the first book issued by XEXOXIAL EDITIONS (previously known as Xerox Sutra Editions until we received a threat from Xerox Corp). any word contained herein may be freely used in conjunction with any language. the author holds no rights over speech. for Liz Was as if she will dance again & again _________________________________________ UFT _________________________________________ poried _________________________________________ amdin gard _________________________________________ podegy _________________________________________ lapurian thocle _________________________________________ scow 1914 _________________________________________ escapscoc _________________________________________ "tendrae fothex? _________________________________________ rasaway rabadka _________________________________________ ercum plonib _________________________________________ nex movelmen _________________________________________ nar trand _________________________________________ odah vomo _________________________________________ loke muziqer _________________________________________ voweledge _________________________________________ katawt _________________________________________ nabe awu _________________________________________ futuristy! _________________________________________ haxtarecillian _________________________________________ gurn coar _________________________________________ 666 xenokings _________________________________________ therbled _________________________________________ teeve platch _________________________________________ kergognobeme _________________________________________ mimeox _________________________________________ in yast a gersian _________________________________________ utmustut _________________________________________ plale _________________________________________ ir stoff exish _________________________________________ & nykh & wogan _________________________________________ pook trayve _________________________________________ pixcha yassen _________________________________________ i o kneme _________________________________________ phochavaph _________________________________________ oquo nervant _________________________________________ ewery odle ut _________________________________________ aititrapio _________________________________________ iorpeg _________________________________________ K's afferent _________________________________________ omenbish _________________________________________ chch? _________________________________________ aram kruchenykh _________________________________________ i wend garve _________________________________________ bruder oasten _________________________________________ publishist _________________________________________ gam tar posen _________________________________________ BUKE _________________________________________ cassetrophy _________________________________________ kaj=vo=dithna _________________________________________ antibravag _________________________________________ EUY eta ank _________________________________________ muxpornesian _________________________________________ ethnoaltoxable _________________________________________ (haverjumpt) _________________________________________ toidjchieve _________________________________________ slavsolve _________________________________________ warsiverous _________________________________________ pleint _________________________________________ futocog _________________________________________ majofloding _________________________________________ svyflab _________________________________________ be bell bought _________________________________________ tagentry _________________________________________ pinpaunt _________________________________________ "explodity" _________________________________________ bitlytloffov _________________________________________ 4 swar rev _________________________________________ omo axa vekar _________________________________________ interscript _________________________________________ pancile _________________________________________ numicicle _________________________________________ bra abra saburd _________________________________________ lilthastic _________________________________________ tablobature _________________________________________ maychoral _________________________________________ on endarcky _________________________________________ Razdisputin _________________________________________ a-dialbuttante _________________________________________ zamiscalypse _________________________________________ neuy Russe _________________________________________ laughtering _________________________________________ Kruchenykh's _________________________________________ exvour _________________________________________ stabbed _________________________________________ offov _________________________________________ ichi tast _________________________________________ ernt _________________________________________ rey du mane _________________________________________ nezal pooshta _________________________________________ avarlushingnas _________________________________________ brutmetic _________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:19:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: rebecca wolff Subject: fence errata Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please note that Martine Bellen's poem "Meditations on Falling Past" in Fence #4 is not as it should be. The poem will be reprinted in its correct entirety in our next issue. Apologies to Ms. Bellen and readers. Thanks, The Editors ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:51:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Jackson Mac Low / Tanning Prize Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jackson Mac Low Wins 1999 Tanning Prize $100,000 for Mastery in the Art of Poetry New York, November 3, 1999--The Academy of American Poets today announced= that Jackson Mac Low has been selected as the recipient of the 1999 Tanning= Prize. The $100,000 award recognizes outstanding and proven mastery in the art of poetry. The judges for this year's Tanning Prize were Frank Bidart, Robert Creeley, Sharon Olds, Marjorie Perloff, and John Yau. Jury chair Robert Creeley writes of Mr. Mac Low's poetry: "Jackson Mac Low is a poet of great heart and abiding faith. His poetry has long been recognized as the most defining of American experimentalism, both with respect to text and to performance. It is the genius of his art to make poetry again enactment, to make its materials=97words and syntax, and all= the human echoes each must carry=97a resonating, perceptive pattern reaching far beyond the enclosure of imagined subjects or intent. Patient, enduring, selfless, he has made substance of our language in ways that reveal its own initiating authority, proving its sounds a song, its progress a transforming revelation. Commenting on the jury process of this year's Tanning Prize, Creeley= reports, The poets our jury considered were a significant range from all character of background and practice, professional commitment and cultural circumstance.= It is the great virtue of our country's poetry that it is plural, poetries, rather than an abiding, singular hierarchy or one settled condition of practice. In awarding the prize to Jackson Mac Low, we sought to honor not only a great master of the art in its most inventive and resourceful character, but to recall also that American poetry itself defines such a tradition as he exemplifies, fosters insistently the experimental, seeks always to expand= the parameters of its activity and relationships. Jackson Mac Low was born in Chicago in 1922. He is a poet and composer and a writer of performance pieces, essays, plays, and radio works. He is also a painter and multimedia performance artist (often with his wife, Anne= Tardos). Author of twenty-six books, his works have been published in many= anthologies and periodicals and read publicly, exhibited, performed, and broadcast in North America, Europe, and New Zealand. Mac Low's recent publications include the books Bloomsday (1984), French Sonnets (1984, second ed. 1989), The Virginia Woolf Poems (1985), Eight Drawing-Asymmetries (1985), Representative Works: 1938-1985 (1986), Words and Ends from Ez (1989), Twenties: 100 Poems (1991), Pieces o' Six: Thirty-Three Poems in Prose (1992), 42 Merzgedichte in= Memoriam Kurt Schwitters (1994), and Barnesbook (1995) and the compact disc (with= Anne Tardos and seven instrumentalists) Open Secrets (1993). Mac Low has taught= at many schools, notably the Naropa Institute, Schule f=FCr Dichtung in Vienna, Bard College, and Brown University. His previous awards include fellowships and grants from the National Endowment for the Arts, CAPS (New York State), PEN, the Guggenheim Foundation and the New York Foundations for the Arts. The Tanning Prize was established in August 1994 by a gift of $2 million to the Academy from the painter Dorothea Tanning. The previous recipients of the award are W. S. Merwin, James Tate, Adrienne Rich, and A.R. Ammons. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:56:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: chapbook publishers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm wondering if you can help me out with some publishing advice. I've put together a mss for the Center for Book Art chapbook contest, but doubt I'll win it...my manuscript involves font size changes, fragments, strange positions on the page, and other things that I don't think the judges will neccessarily want. So I'm wondering if, now that I have this thing together, there are other contests or publishers of chapbooks (24 pages) which are more open to experimentalish work. Thanks, Arielle **************************************************************************** "I thought numerous gorgeous sadists would write me plaintive appeals, but time has gone by me. They know where to get better looking boots than I describe." -- Ray Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:19:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Organization: Awkword Ubutronics Subject: Re: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is certainly in dispute with other who were also present who just like to argue for the sake of grief or sport. The eyes have been sewed shut & neural circuits hard wired to the intimacy of the spoken word, one shellfish at a time. Club the language, spawn. Tony Green wrote: > > an answer to the question, Alan? > > Nikuko held Dr Konninger's eyes for a long time, but she > was the first to look away. She held his eyes, never > returned them, as she went on opening mussels. > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Sondheim > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Saturday, 20 November 1999 03:00 > Subject: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger > > "Did NIKUKO return his eyes?" > > > >( "steps gingerly into the pools, bending, stooping! - stooping! - gath- > >ers sea-mussels, her eyes fixed, she's never dizzy, the slight scent of > >sea-water" ) > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: Jackson Mac Low / Tanning Prize Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Robert Creeley's remarks really rise to the occasion! Jackson Mac Low is one of the most amazing writers and persons I have ever encountered. What = a great moment! ---------- >From: Charles Bernstein >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Jackson Mac Low / Tanning Prize >Date: Mon, Nov 22, 1999, 1:51 PM > >Jackson Mac Low Wins 1999 Tanning Prize > >$100,000 for Mastery in the Art of Poetry > >New York, November 3, 1999--The Academy of American Poets today announced = that >Jackson Mac Low has been selected as the recipient of the 1999 Tanning Pri= ze. >The $100,000 award recognizes outstanding and proven mastery in the art of >poetry. The judges for this year's Tanning Prize were Frank Bidart, Robert >Creeley, Sharon Olds, Marjorie Perloff, and John Yau. > >Jury chair Robert Creeley writes of Mr. Mac Low's poetry: > >"Jackson Mac Low is a poet of great heart and abiding faith. His poetry ha= s >long been recognized as the most defining of American experimentalism, bot= h >with respect to text and to performance. It is the genius of his art to ma= ke >poetry again enactment, to make its materials=97words and syntax, and all th= e >human echoes each must carry=97a resonating, perceptive pattern reaching far >beyond the enclosure of imagined subjects or intent. Patient, enduring, >selfless, he has made substance of our language in ways that reveal its ow= n >initiating authority, proving its sounds a song, its progress a transformi= ng >revelation. > >Commenting on the jury process of this year's Tanning Prize, Creeley repor= ts, > >The poets our jury considered were a significant range from all character = of >background and practice, professional commitment and cultural circumstance= . It >is the great virtue of our country's poetry that it is plural, poetries, >rather >than an abiding, singular hierarchy or one settled condition of practice. = In >awarding the prize to Jackson Mac Low, we sought to honor not only a great >master of the art in its most inventive and resourceful character, but to >recall also that American poetry itself defines such a tradition as he >exemplifies, fosters insistently the experimental, seeks always to expand = the >parameters of its activity and relationships. > >Jackson Mac Low was born in Chicago in 1922. He is a poet and composer and= a >writer of performance pieces, essays, plays, and radio works. He is also a >painter and multimedia performance artist (often with his wife, Anne Tardo= s). >Author of twenty-six books, his works have been published in many antholog= ies >and periodicals and read publicly, exhibited, performed, and broadcast in >North >America, Europe, and New Zealand. Mac Low's recent publications include th= e >books Bloomsday (1984), French Sonnets (1984, second ed. 1989), The Virgin= ia >Woolf Poems (1985), Eight Drawing-Asymmetries (1985), Representative Works= : >1938-1985 (1986), Words and Ends from Ez (1989), Twenties: 100 Poems (1991= ), >Pieces o' Six: Thirty-Three Poems in Prose (1992), 42 Merzgedichte in Memo= riam >Kurt Schwitters (1994), and Barnesbook (1995) and the compact disc (with A= nne >Tardos and seven instrumentalists) Open Secrets (1993). Mac Low has taught= at >many schools, notably the Naropa Institute, Schule f=FCr Dichtung in Vienna, >Bard >College, and Brown University. His previous awards include fellowships and >grants from the National Endowment for the Arts, CAPS (New York State), PE= N, >the Guggenheim Foundation and the New York Foundations for the Arts. > >The Tanning Prize was established in August 1994 by a gift of $2 million t= o >the >Academy from the painter Dorothea Tanning. The previous recipients of the >award >are W. S. Merwin, James Tate, Adrienne Rich, and A.R. Ammons. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:10:21 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: Announcement: Dream/Fall Comments: To: clkpoet@ptdprolog.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This I like. I definitely like. Ron ("The sheep are on fire") Silliman ----Original Message Follows---- From: David Knoebel Subject: Announcement: Dream/Fall Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:49:30 -0500 A poetry installation in Shamokin PA http://home.ptd.net/~clkpoet/dream/dream.html -- David Knoebel -cranking out 2-3 words per day, every day, no matter what. http://www.clickpoetry.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:50:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Re: re Bromige And the Provinces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess, David, that I'm increasingly wary of hierarchies of "excellence." Especially ones that are based on geographical and, perhaps?, class distinctions. TomB. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:03:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MoTHERE ARE Fools so DEAD they cannot hear or see? IL DLUOW E LIKE TO SEE ME MoTHEre ! G DEAD MoTHEre I WOULD LIke dEad words IL DLUOW E LIKE TO SEE ME MoTHERE ARE Fools so dead as we? MoTHERE ARE Fools aLIve as we? IL DLUOW dEad words from a dead god ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:14:49 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Juliana Spahr Subject: mullen on alexander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, The Harryette Mullen article you refer to in Booglite is but an excerpt from a longer paper that she read at Poetry as Cultural Critique in Minnesota. I've lost this conversation somehow so I don't know what is meant by essentializing it. Callaloo 22.2 (1999) has an interesting interview with Mullen and Alexander, an article by Mullen on Alexander, an article by A.L. Nielsen on Alexander, etc. Also a section on Lorenzo Thomas. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:47:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bill marsh Subject: email for scott keeney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if anyone has it, i'd be muched obliged bc to bill marsh wmarsh@nu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:24:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: realism, autobiography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain { p o e t i x } i remember in some backchannel discussion saying to someone that i thought that langpo allowed for as much biography of the poet than much of what came before --- this didnt go over with my corespondent very well who went, as i recall, the "non-referential" route telling me that much of langpo was characterized more by it NOT being about anything outside itself --- and, i'm guessing that autobiography is, like everything else (?) outside this work for this person someone reading this is just bubbling to mention _my life_ i know but i'd like to not mention that instead i'd like to talk about what i'm interested in with respect to autobiography, with what my need is in that respect and consequently why i find say ted greenwald's _word of mouth_, hannah weiner's _clairvoyant journal_ and steve benson's _blue book_ all tantalizingly rich as autobiography and even why something like melnick's _pcoet_ isnt anti-autobiography in any meaningful sense (for me at least) it goes back to my thinking about mac low's comments about his failure in the attempt to remove the ego from his poems --- he says something about how it is always present at some level at some remove and this seems indisputable to me and i've read a number of biographies of poet at this point --- not autobiographies but biographies and they can be pretty interesting tales i'll admit but i think that an autobiography to be that interesting for me wd show me, wd give me exempla of the way this person thinks, how they operate in language etc --- as such it strikes me so far that the two volumes of the _essential peirce_ tell me more about what i'm interested in with regard to charles peirce than the biography of him i read did (tho ken ketner's bio is different in using so much manuscript material and by its pretense of being and autobiography) silliman's comments about the why "realism" was in the sub-title of _in the amer tree_ are to the point here as well --- it seems to me that if we care about some poet or other it is because of their work, because of their mind found there i'm skirting the non-referential thing as i don't find it very interesting and it seems to assume that we can remove ourselves from the writing which i don't believe anyway )ohn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:42:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hoa Nguyen Subject: Skanky announcement: Possum #3 Comments: To: skankypossum@hotmail.com Comments: cc: nguyenhoa@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The 3rd issue of Skanky Possum is now available for only $5 (US). With individually painted possum covers!! Featuring poems by Kenward Elmslie, Daniel Kane, Chad Kenward, Diane Wald, Jack Collum, Linh Dinh, Laura Joy Lustig, Jen Hofer, Philip Trussell, Betsy Andrews, Eric P. Elshtain, Lacy L. Shutz, Susan Maurer, Darcy Nuffer, C.W. Swets, Roger Snell, Dale Smith, Randy Prus, Sarah Menefee, Howard McCord, Kevin Larimer, Patrick Pritchett, Anselm Hollo, Brendan Lorber, Carl Thayler, Norma Cole, Kent Johnson, and Tom Clark. Also "Buffalo '99", an inquiring essay by Kent Johnson contemplating the "reorganization" of the Buffalo Poetics List. For orders please contact Small Press Distribution at http://www.spdbooks.org/, or call SPD at 1-800-869-7553. You may also send orders, queries, and etc. here or by writing: Hoa Nguyen & Dale Smith 2925 Higgins Street Austin TX 78722 Also available from SPD and Skanky Possum Press: all titles $5! Skanky Possum #1 & 2, _Naltsus Bichidin_ by Carl Thayler _Lucky Pup_ by Leslie Davis and _Dark_ by Hoa Nguyen (2nd edition) .....Skank on friends ..... *** Please forgive cross postings. If you want to be removed from this list, kindly email me here. *** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:30:36 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: class Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Suddenly i remembered that I should know about working class a lot. >I was thoroughly drilled in marxism and leninism all through many years of >school and university back in the 70s in the Soviet Union. M.Z. > i'd thought maybe doing a bit o' labour because it was your only option would be a better sampler than being drilled by theory//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:37:57 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Provincialism, regionalism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Pete Spence (& listmatesI expect the X=Spence equation resolved >quickly, so that the one impression I have of his writerly powers, can >extend beyond a feeble eye-pun. David dave you are an experty on one little ditty!! you'V seen little else und i know it!! weather i miss read you or not aint the matter, and further i'll enjoy my writing no matter how trite it gets i'm not trotting 'round looking for the highliter //pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:05:07 +0000 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: reading in nyc MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Just a note to let you know an author of ours, Douglas Goetsch, will be reading this coming Monday, Nov. 29, 8 PM, at The Poetry Project (St. Mark's Church; 131 East 10th St. @ 2nd Ave.). Jacqueline Waters will also read. Hope you can make it & let me know how it was! Also, the Academy of American Poets just included a page with some poems of his in their poetry exhibits. Here's the link, if you're curious: The Academy of American Poets - Poetry Exhibits… Be well David Baratier ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:47:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: submissions wanted. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit housepress is constantly accepting submissions of short prose, B&W concrete and visual poetry, B&W collage, LANGUAGE and post-LANGUAGE writing, B&W illustrations, sound poetry scores, B&W comix (panels, and strips) and strange expected things with words & text/ure. for ongoing limited edition chapbook and ephemera series please send inquires and submissions to derek beaulieu housepress 1339 19th ave nw calgary alberta canada t2m 1a5 housepre@telusplanet.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 01:23:11 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RMUTTS@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: Subtext presents Dale Going and C.E. Putnam on Dec. 1st MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.1ee0b4c8.256cde4f_boundary" --part1_0.1ee0b4c8.256cde4f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those (headless or stateless?) in Seattle for the WTO protests next week may be interested in the following. > Subtext closes out 1999 with a reading featuring Dale Going and C.E. Putnam > on Wednesday, December 1st, 1999 at the Richard Hugo House on Capitol Hill. > The reading starts at 7:30pm. > > Dale Going is both a poet and a book artist, proprietor of Em Press, the > award-winning letterpress she founded in Mill Valley, California to publish > experimental poetry by women. She is currently printing a chapbook of her > poem, &0, and completing the manuscript for a new collection, Leaves from a > Gradual. Her collections of poems are The View They Arrange (Kelsey St. > Press 1994), and As/Of the Whole (San Francisco State University 1990). > Recent work can be viewed online at the web publications HOW2 and City > Search San Francisco (July "Local Howler"). She has been a California Arts > Council Fellow in Literature, and twice a Fellow at the Djerassi Resident > Artists Program. She last appeared in Seattle five years ago, when she read > at > the Bumbershoot Festival and received its award for letterpress book design > for her Em Press chapbook, She Pushes With Her Hands. > > C.E. Putnam has recently returned to Seattle after years in the Nation's > Capitol. He is author of "Go-Go Topless Mini-Poem Poetry" and co-author of > the renga > project "Communal Bebop Canto." His work has recently appeared in > Articulate, Situation, and Pavement Saw. He used to be a part of the > problem, but now he is the > problem. > > Be sure to mark those new calendars: Subtext starts off the year 2000 with a > reading on January 5th featuring poet and translator Jen Hofer. Also reading > will be Bryant Mason. > > Subtext readings fall on the 1st Wednesday of the month at the Richard Hugo > House. The Hugo House is located at 1634 11th Ave on Capitol Hill in > Seattle. Subtext events are co-sponsored by the Richard Hugo House. > --part1_0.1ee0b4c8.256cde4f_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (rly-zd02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.226]) by air-zd03.mail.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 00:49:49 -0500 Received: from grace.speakeasy.org (grace.speakeasy.org [216.231.52.5]) by rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (v65.4) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 00:49:36 1900 Received: from blanchot (1Cust3.tnt1.seattle2.wa.da.uu.net [63.15.0.3]) by grace.speakeasy.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA23641; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:48:11 -0800 Message-ID: <004801bf34ad$0a2a63c0$4d030f3f@blanchot> From: "R. Bryant Mason" To: "R. Bryant Mason" Subject: Subtext presents Dale Going and C.E. Putnam on Dec. 1st Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:45:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Subtext closes out 1999 with a reading featuring Dale Going and C.E. Putnam on Wednesday, December 1st, 1999 at the Richard Hugo House on Capitol Hill. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Dale Going is both a poet and a book artist, proprietor of Em Press, the award-winning letterpress she founded in Mill Valley, California to publish experimental poetry by women. She is currently printing a chapbook of her poem, &0, and completing the manuscript for a new collection, Leaves from a Gradual. Her collections of poems are The View They Arrange (Kelsey St. Press 1994), and As/Of the Whole (San Francisco State University 1990). Recent work can be viewed online at the web publications HOW2 and City Search San Francisco (July "Local Howler"). She has been a California Arts Council Fellow in Literature, and twice a Fellow at the Djerassi Resident Artists Program. She last appeared in Seattle five years ago, when she read at the Bumbershoot Festival and received its award for letterpress book design for her Em Press chapbook, She Pushes With Her Hands. C.E. Putnam has recently returned to Seattle after years in the Nation's Capitol. He is author of "Go-Go Topless Mini-Poem Poetry" and co-author of the renga project "Communal Bebop Canto." His work has recently appeared in Articulate, Situation, and Pavement Saw. He used to be a part of the problem, but now he is the problem. Be sure to mark those new calendars: Subtext starts off the year 2000 with a reading on January 5th featuring poet and translator Jen Hofer. Also reading will be Bryant Mason. Subtext readings fall on the 1st Wednesday of the month at the Richard Hugo House. The Hugo House is located at 1634 11th Ave on Capitol Hill in Seattle. Subtext events are co-sponsored by the Richard Hugo House. Bryant Mason Subtext --part1_0.1ee0b4c8.256cde4f_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:05:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Creeley In Company Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Have any of the New Yorkers on the list been around to the NYPL to see the Creeley collaborations exhibit, "In Company"? (and apologies if this has already been discussed -- I was electronically discommoded for a period) -- I've been looking at the book version , which is being distributed by the U of North Carolina Press -- It's a beautiful volume, and affordable -- nice CD rom comes with it -- the designers could have been a bit more imaginative (and who chose that music?!) but the colors float beautifully onto the screen -- I'd get this book even if I had all the artists' books it covers -- which, of course, I never could afford -- though I hasten to add that Creeley and comrades have on occasion ssen fit to produce art/poetry books that any of us could afford, and I've got those! The CD includes photos and correspondence that aren't in the book, and it allows you to page through reproductions of the art and poetry -- My own favorite is _A Sight_, with Kitaj. would much appreciate a report from the scene from any who have in fact seen it -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:16:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: MLA already Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" While it may be early to start making MLA plans, some of us have the fortune to be earlier than others. Might I call your attention to session # 452 "Swing Is the Word: African American Poetry and Jazz Idiom" speakers are Jeffrey Renard Allen, Reginald Scott Young, Meta DuEwa Jones and Aldon Lynn Nielsen -- (yeah, we've all got three names each, but we haven't assassinated anybody) Wed. 12/29 at 8:30 AM This is Chicago -- stay up all night and come to our session before you have brunch -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:00:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW Subject: class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Some notes on class: 1. Upper-class poetics in the US would look a lot like James Merrill: lots of cultural capital on display, opera, meals of a certain kind. 2. Middle-class poetics would look like Robert Pinsky. The idea that poetry is so darn good for us. 3. A sort of sentimentalized working-class poetics in Philip Levine. He doesn't write poems about sitting in his office in Fresno, but about being an auto-worker in Detroit 40 years before. What's sentimental is precisely the displacement, the idea that actually working on the assemby line is more authentic. 4. Is class class origin? In this case if you come from working class you are always such, even if you end up living the style of another class. Is it affiliation or "identity"? Is it where you are now, where you will be, or where you come from? If you write in Robert Pinsky middle-brow style, even if you are working class origins, what is the class of your poetics? 5. In the interest of full disclosure, I should point out that I have a middle to upper-middle class, academic background (surprise!). Grandparent farmers in Mountain states, grandparents, uncles etc... govt. bureaucrats, accountants, college professors, etc... Access to cultural capital is key here. As University professor myself I basically do now what I have done my whole life: read books, go to bookstores, write and think about what I've read, talk to others about this, etc... This is my class existence, and didn't really change much when I didn't have money as graduate student. Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:48:33 -0800 Reply-To: wxf8424@usl.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Organization: USL Subject: Re: realism, autobiography Comments: To: "Lowther, John" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit )ohn-- Perhaps to point here is the introd. Bernstein and Andrews wrote to _The L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Book_: confusion about the nature of this exploration florishes. For instance, the idea that writing should (or could) be stripped of reference is as bothersome and confusing as the assumption that the primary function of words is to refer, one-on-one, to an already constructed world of "things." Rather, reference, like the body itself [and there, again, is the body, the "plan"], is one of the horizons of language. . . . It is the multiple powers and scope of reference (denotative, connotative, associational), not writers' refusal or fear of it, that threads these essays together. It is a renewed engagement that comes from the recognition that the (various) measuring and questioning and composition of our references is the practice of our craft. Or Creeley's lovely: "Poetry is not referential, at least not importantly so." skip ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:22:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jocelyn saidenberg Subject: K. Prevallet and T. Bryant Reading at SPT, 12/3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1268719512==_ma============" --============_-1268719512==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Small Press Traffic Reading Friday, December 3, 7:30 p.m. Tisa Bryant Kristin Prevallet Tisa Bryant is a San Francisco-based writer and curator. Her work has recently appeared in Clamour, Children of the Dream: Our Own Stories of Growing Up Black in America (Pocket Books), and is forthcoming in the anthologies Beyond the Frontier and What Is Not Said. A novel, Letters to Regret, is forthcoming from Leroy Press. What is special about her work is on the one hand, the speculative questioning about location, space, citizenship--where are we? why are we here and who wants us in this place?--and on the other hand, a rapturous attention to the disturbing psychic and sensuous details of everyday life. Kristin Prevallet returns from Brooklyn to Small Press Traffic, where she last presented findings of her biographical inquiry into the uncanny life of the poet Helen Adam. (Her edition of Adam's selected poems, Fire Brackled Bones, is forthcoming.) Now she will read from her own poetry, a remarkable re-invention of the cut-up/collage form, political and social readings of ordinary life, torn to shreds by the tender furies of perception and display. Everything's grist for Prevallet's mill, the daily news, the shoes on your feet, the way you look tonight. Hers is the mysterious Life that lives under things, as in the current film American Beauty. Her books include Perturbation, My Sister (First Intensity Press, 1997), Lead, Glass and Poppy (Primitive Publications, 1997) and Selections from: The Parasite Poems (Barque Press, 1999). New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1268719512==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" PalatinoSmall Press Traffic Reading Friday, December 3, 7:30 p.m. Tisa Bryant Kristin Prevallet Tisa Bryant is a San Francisco-based writer and curator. Her work has recently appeared in Clamour, Children of the Dream: Our Own Stories of Growing Up Black in America (Pocket Books), and is forthcoming in the anthologies Beyond the Frontier and What Is Not Said. A novel, Letters to Regret, is forthcoming from Leroy Press. What is special about her work is on the one hand, the speculative questioning about location, space, citizenship--where are we? why are we here and who wants us in this place?--and on the other hand, a rapturous attention to the disturbing psychic and sensuous details of everyday life. Kristin Prevallet returns from Brooklyn to Small Press Traffic, where she last presented findings of her biographical inquiry into the uncanny life of the poet Helen Adam. (Her edition of Adam's selected poems, Fire Brackled Bones, is forthcoming.) Now she will read from her own poetry, a remarkable re-invention of the cut-up/collage form, political and social readings of ordinary life, torn to shreds by the tender furies of perception and display. Everything's grist for Prevallet's mill, the daily news, the shoes on your feet, the way you look tonight. Hers is the mysterious Life that lives under things, as in the current film American Beauty. Her books include Perturbation, My Sister (First Intensity Press, 1997), Lead, Glass and Poppy (Primitive Publications, 1997) and Selections from: The Parasite Poems (Barque Press, 1999). New College Cultural Center 766 Valencia Street, San Francisco $5 ---------------------------------------- Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center 766 Valencia Street San Francisco, CA 94110 415/437-3454 www.sptraffic.org --============_-1268719512==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:38:26 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Organization: periplum Subject: New Mayer CD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip Good asked me to forward this to the list. JS Bernadette Mayer's poetry is now available on a CD titled Epigrams, Imitations and Translations. This new CD is a studio recording of Bernadette Mayer reading from her books Formal Field of Kissing and Proper Name. Also included are new unpublished epigrams. If you enjoy Bach's Coffee Cantata you'll enjoy this CD. Available for $12 from: Utopia Productions Att: Philip Good 206 Macedonia Rd Chatham, New York 12037 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:40:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Recent David Lehman book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some comments (pp. 10-11) from David Lehman in his recent book The Last Avant-Garde make me wonder a bit. Possibly this book has already been discussed on the list, but I'd like to note a few things he writes: "The poets of the New York School were avant-garde at a time when that designation meant something. They are not the last avant-garde movement we will ever have. But at the moment the conditions surrounding art and literature are anything by favorable to the idea of an avant-garde." Agree that this is the case? "The problem has something to do with the decline of the public intellectual and the corresponding expansion of the purview of academe; the idea that something can be at once avant-garde and academe would seem a contradiction in terms." This could be half-true, I suppose... It could also be a gross oversimplification and hasty generalization. Would certainly consider most list members who happen to work in academe definitely avant-garde... Also, is it pretty easy for Lehman to say this? Is he, himself, in academe, and thus having his cake and eating it, too--i.e., gets to pronounce who is avant-garde and who gets to be avant-garde and at the same time does the bulk of his living off of academe infrastructures. (Or did I just agree with him, too?) Quotes Gertrude Stein, who was alive some years ago: "For a long time everybody refuses and then almost without a pause almost everyone accepts. . . . In the history of the refused in the arts and literature the rapidity of the change is always startling." Then Lehman writes, "The interval between rejection and acceptance has steadily grown shorter since Stein wrote those words. The consequence is that the avant-garde's incursions into the temple of art have become ritualized as the predictable gestures of postmodernism." Well, CPU's get faster every month, and humans may have, too... Writes, "If we are all postmodernists, we are none of us avant-garde, for postmodernism is the institutionalization of the avant-garde." Agree? He does use some first rate references (Kafka, Stein) to argue his point. They're very well known... "In the second half of the book, I raise the question of whether the avant-garde as an abstract concept or a practical idea is finished." Okay, some of this book is about whether there's an avant-garde anymore or can be. Haven't gotten that far yet and had bought it to read about the New School poets, but look forward to the argument. "It is a question that leads to others, or requires the answer to others, before it can be settled. What does (or did) avant-garde mean, and how did it come to have meaning? What exactly are the requirements of an avant-garde art movement? What lessons do the movements of the past have to teach us? The argument against the viability of the avant-garde today rests on the assumption that there is no real resistance to the new, no stable norm from which the defiant artist may depart. While I find this to be a convincing argument, I would sooner help to quicken a new avant-garde than pronounce the demise of an old one." These are legitimate questions... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:45:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: letting go MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been trying to control the design, line breaks, of a web page through all sizes of monitors. I work on a 15" monitor, and when I look it on a 21" monitor (at a university pod) the font sizes default larger, in order to ill the screen, the line breaks are thus different, the page, and meaning, skewed. Very frustrating! A few days ago, I was reading (again) Laurent Jenny's essay, "Genetic Criticism and It's Myths" (Yale French Studies #89, 1996), and came to realize that controlling the viewing space of one's work is a modernist conceit, and not what this new medium is promising to writers. I wrote it into the project's as: "At first I tried to control this space, as control over one's work is the pedagogy of non-digital art. In the process, I began to appreciate that the digital canvas is an apparitional landscape, a phantasm of fluid patterns, somewhat like the walls of Paleolithic caves. So that within the praxis of the words and images I am gestating, it is the viewer--in this case by increasing or decreasing font size (View)--, not the writer, who has the final tools of alterity." Several strategies are being used by net.artists to allow the viewer to participate in the creative process. Here a lack of technical means lead to the giving over of control. Perhaps in the future I can rectify this. But, in a nascent medium, the learning of whose tools, always upgrading, can be prohibitively time-consuming and daunting, is the lack of ultimate control an opportunity toward abstraction? This lack of control seems built into the system. For example, one can download copyrighted photographs, and alter them. The same with texts. I do both, careful to cite. Not out of a lack of respect for the artists, but from a faith in which we are all creating, and have been for millennia, one big work of Human Art: adding, subtracting, continuously changing, letting go. -Joel Weishaus ARCHIVE: www.unm.edu/~reality SKULL-HOUSE: (Most advanced draft): www.unm.edu/~reality/Skull/intro.htm SKULL-HOUSE (Being built at Centre for Advanced Inquiry in the Interactive Arts): http://caiia-star.newport.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/skullhouse/Skull/index.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:40:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Carol L. Hamshaw" Subject: [Fwd: Adeena Karasick wins the Vancouver Videopoem Festival "People's Choice Award"] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >The Edgewise Electrolit Centre > >www.edgewisecafe.org > > > > > >For Immediate Release: November 17,1999 > > > >Adeena Karasick > >wins the Vancouver Videopoem Festival "People's Choice Award" > > > > > >Vancouver, BC ... On November 7, 1999 The Edgewise Electrolit Centre > >presented it's first annual Vancouver Videopoem Festival, hosted by > >oral/improv poet Kedrick James. The evening featured a diverse body of work > >produced by Canadian and international artists as well as an impromptu > >performance by the polyvocal ensemble, Verbomotorhead. > > > >The Edgewise Electrolit Centre is pleased to announce Adeena Karasick's > >Alphabet City as the "People's Choice Award" > >winner. Karasick is a poet/cultural theorist, performance artist; and the > >author of three books of poetry and poetic theory. The award (gift > >certificates from the Alibi Room, Biz Books and a VFS course) was presented > >to Adeena and Evan Karasick (her brother, who collaborated with Adeena in the > > >editing of Alphabet City). > > > >A second prize (a gift subscription to The Capilano Review) was awarded to > >Tom Konyves for his three video poems: Sign Language, Percussion and > >Hopscotch. Konyves began experimenting with video poetry during the early > >1970's as a member of The Vehicule Poets, one of the first alternative > >galleries formed in Canada. > > > >Visit The Edgewise Electrolit Centre's website @ www.edgewisecafe.org to > >find out more about the artists who participated in the Videopoem Festival > >or to inquire about next year's submission details. > > > >Funding for The Vancouver Videopoem Festival was received from the Canada > >Council for the Arts and was produced in partnership with Video In Studios, > >Vancouver, BC. Part of Outside the Lines, BC Arts and Culture Week. > > > > > >The Edgewise Electrolit Centre is a nonprofit society whose mandate is to > >exploit communications technology to widen the audience of Canadian poetry > >and to give poets, multi-media artists and youth the opportunity to use, > >learn, and create with this technology. Videocomferencing and online > >publishing are the major technologies that we work with. Our electronic > >magazine can be viewed and heard at www.edgewisecafe.org. Poets featured > >with audio include Adeena Karasick, Wayde Compton, Bill Bissett and Sheri-D > >Wilson. Funding for our programs is received from The Canada Council of the > >Arts, The BC Arts Council, The City of Vancouver, Embedded Spaces and > >Communicopia. > > > > > >For more information, please call Raquel Alvaro, Events Producer, at > >872-4333, or via email at roaminggallery@hotmail.com > > > >Raquel Alvaro > >Events Producer > >Edgewise Electrolit Centre > >http://www.edgewisecafe.org > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:51:58 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Creeley NYPL Exhibit Opening Coverage, from Booglit 6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Aldon Nielsen asked for the good word on the Creeley show at NYPL, so here's how I wrote-up the opening for Booglit 6: Lowell Celebrates Kerouac ($10ppd. Booglit 351 W.24th St., Sutie 19E, NYC 10011-1510--see October 4, 1999 post). as ever, David _________________________________________________________ Another Opening, Another Show Creeley collaborations tour stops in NYC The opening for the New York Public Library’s new exhibit, "In Company: Robert Creeley’s Collaborations," is a collaboration itself. Everyone in attendance does a quick art-check, but it is the company that matters. Poets and literary editors talk outside the gallery where parts of Creeley’s lifelong artistic unions are glass enclosed. Shift from one collaborator to the next. René Laubiès to Dan Rice, Fielding Dawson to Robert Indiana to William Katz, as the decades blur, from 1950s on through the 1970s. Strange to see poet/artist Bobbie Louise Hawkins on Black Sparrow covers as "Bobbie Creeley," her art, as she says in the catalog (edited by Amy Cappellazzo and Elizabeth Licata; University of North Carolina Press, 1999), "not illustrative of the poems." A few words on the catalog: The CD-ROM it comes with is alone worth the $24.95 pricetag. Drop it in and Creeley’s exhibit pops across your monitor, with art, words, and sounds a mouse click away. Add that shiny package to the handsome art book—which draws on the show’s visuals and includes essays by the editors, John Yau, and words from the artistic collaborators—and you’re in for a joyous multisensory overload you’ll return to forever for inspiration. The artist Meg Arthurs, whose collaborators include Allen Ginsberg, Lee Ann Brown, and Bernadette Mayer, enters the Edna Barnes Solomon Room to see how Creeley puts it together. Granary Books chieftain Steve Clay tows his little one around as he talks the room. Newlywed Alan Gilbert, his new bride/collaborator Kristin Prevallet a few feet away, talks with Canadian poet Jeff Derksen—"I didn’t realize I still wear that shirt," he tells me of the photograph I sent him from the first BoPoFest. Tender Buttons editor Lee Ann Brown films Bernadette Mayer, Phil Good, and Lewis Warsh by the covered bridge table/temporary bar. And I give Creeley a quick hello, before I have someone snap our photo, and the honored guest, off a puddle-jumper from Buffalo, seeks a new drink. But the bartender’s done collaborating, as the lights flash on and off, and the security guard turns to Creeley and says, "It’s time to go, we’re closing, sir." In Company is on view at the New York Public Library, Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street, Edna Barnes Solomon Room. It runs through January 13, 2000. Admission is free. M/Th-Sat: 10:00a.m. to 6:00p.m., Tu-Wed: 11:00a.m.-7:30p.m. For more information call (212) 869-8089. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:09:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aa alas no shooters for the sutured peepers -----Original Message----- From: miekal and To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, 25 November 1999 08:12 Subject: Re: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger >This is certainly in dispute with other who were also present who just >like to argue for the sake of grief or sport. The eyes have been sewed >shut & neural circuits hard wired to the intimacy of the spoken word, >one shellfish at a time. Club the language, spawn. > > >Tony Green wrote: >> >> an answer to the question, Alan? >> >> Nikuko held Dr Konninger's eyes for a long time, but she >> was the first to look away. She held his eyes, never >> returned them, as she went on opening mussels. >> >> Tony >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alan Sondheim >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, 20 November 1999 03:00 >> Subject: Bending, - Stooping!, Tlingit, Konniger >> >> "Did NIKUKO return his eyes?" >> > >> >( "steps gingerly into the pools, bending, stooping! - stooping! - gath- >> >ers sea-mussels, her eyes fixed, she's never dizzy, the slight scent of >> >sea-water" ) >> > >> > >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:41:07 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Green Subject: Re: Creeley In Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Passing thru NY a month ago, I was in the Creeley collabs exhibition at the NY Public Library for a couple of hours, alerted to it by my NZ painter friend Max Gimblett, I was much taken with early photos (Majorca), with ms letters, e-mail print-outs, & the wide varieties of collaboration in all the books on display. The early material especially was exciting to see -- a long gone chapter, history -- so to speak. Opened archives, great! I paused to read the whole of Creeley's ms tribute to John Altoon -- I vaguely remembered it from print somewhere. I liked the look of half-familiar things, glimpsed, or read about somewhere, : but many I hadnt seen, especially the somewhat luxurious recent ones (Of course, I've got a copy of _The Dogs of Auckland_ with Max's dog drawings. _Le Chien d'Auckland, c'est moi!_ says the text. & fine printing by Alan Loney). It was far too rich for two hours browsing, I wanted/needed ten days to look at all the things there, read them. But that's always one of the effects in that kind of exhibition of books & mss. Round the walls the collection of old paintings belonging to the library completely failed, for once, to hold my attention after all the reading, leaning on vitrines. that Aldon may give you some sense of the show as distinct from the book of the show cheers Tony Green -----Original Message----- From: Nielsen, Aldon To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, 25 November 1999 08:21 Subject: Creeley In Company >Have any of the New Yorkers on the list been around to the NYPL to see the >Creeley collaborations exhibit, "In Company"? (and apologies if this has >already been discussed -- I was electronically discommoded for a period) -- > >I've been looking at the book version , which is being distributed by the U >of North Carolina Press -- It's a beautiful volume, and affordable -- nice >CD rom comes with it -- the designers could have been a bit more >imaginative (and who chose that music?!) but the colors float beautifully >onto the screen -- I'd get this book even if I had all the artists' books >it covers -- which, of course, I never could afford -- though I hasten to >add that Creeley and comrades have on occasion ssen fit to produce >art/poetry books that any of us could afford, and I've got those! The CD >includes photos and correspondence that aren't in the book, and it allows >you to page through reproductions of the art and poetry -- My own favorite >is _A Sight_, with Kitaj. > >would much appreciate a report from the scene from any who have in fact >seen it -- > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:54:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Arielle C. Greenberg" Subject: Re: Recent David Lehman book In-Reply-To: <383B7A40.797F4A90@eznet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm sure the book has already been discussed here, but I'm glad someone brought it up again, since I'm just finishing it now and have been very interested in it... > we will ever have. But at the moment the conditions surrounding art and > literature are anything by favorable to the idea of an avant-garde." > > Agree that this is the case? Not really. While I understand that a certain kind of imposed limitation, or a societal narrow-mindedness, might in fact liberate artists, I don't think America, currently, is so open to work that pushes the boundaries that it makes it impossible for an avant-garde to exist. Poetry is still a marginalized medium, and within poetry, the experimental world is still very small. Recent coups such as the Mac Low Tanning thing notwithstanding, I'd argue that even in most literary/artistic circles, experimental poetry is still more or less "underground." And while I do think Lehman's point about the difficulties of being simultaneously avant-garde and academic is compelling mostly in its political implications, I think the argument is refuted by his own book: Kenneth Koch is depicted as Mr. Professor, and the epilogue on the current state of avant-garde poetry points at the Language School's relationship to theory. (Then again, he seems to not like Language stuff much at all...which is maybe why he argues this way...) > Writes, "If we are all postmodernists, we are none of us avant-garde, > for postmodernism is the institutionalization of the avant-garde." A really interesting idea, I think. Although I suspect making innovative work has much less to do with how you label yourself (or how time labels you) and much more to do with the actual work...which, despite the calendar, may in fact be really NEW. My two cents on the book: I loved the info on the poets themselves, thought women got a really raw deal throughout, thought the intro and concluding essays were far better organized than the biographical chapters on the poets, which felt haphazard, but it was a page-turner, anyway. Turning pages, Arielle ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:41:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Dillon Subject: Re: re Bromige And the Provinces Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David Bromige walks around with his shirttails flapping outside of his jeans. ---------- >From: Tom Beckett >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: re Bromige And the Provinces >Date: Mon, Nov 22, 1999, 8:50 PM > >I guess, David, that I'm increasingly wary of hierarchies of "excellence." >Especially ones that are based on geographical and, perhaps?, class >distinctions. > >TomB. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:35:43 +0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Maria L. Zavialov" Organization: IREX/IATP Subject: Re: class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 23-Nov-99 16:30 you wrote: >>Suddenly i remembered that I should know about working class a lot. >>I was thoroughly drilled in marxism and leninism all through many years of >>school and university back in the 70s in the Soviet Union. M.Z. >> > i'd thought maybe doing a bit o' labour because it was your only option > would be a better sampler than being drilled by theory//pete spence It was in good old Soviet times when the State paid for schooling. Now I have to do quite a bit of labour to support a family of five my husband being a poet. M.Z. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:48:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katherine Lederer Subject: Re: Recent David Lehman book In-Reply-To: <383B7A40.797F4A90@eznet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It sometimes feels like exclusionary politics and/or poetics is considered avant-garde. Sometimes it feels like people think that to denounce something has to do with being avant-garde. I think that generosity is a very avant-garde thing and doesn't get enough credit. If Lehman really means this: >depart. While I find this to be a convincing argument, I would sooner >help to quicken a new avant-garde than pronounce the demise of an old >one." > then I like that. It's hard to be a poet. Katy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:40:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: (towards a poetics of multimedia/text) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Background / Foreground I was thinking of this first a couple of years ago in relation to objects and multimedia channels, and then looking at Miekal And's flash work (which I love) and some of the other URL sites I've posted here - I've been wondering about the relationship among: 1. Multimedia OBJECTS, and their protocols, codings, animations/visuals/ audios, etc.; 2. The framework of the SCREEN or page, which holds the OBJECTS; and 3. The embedding of the SCREEN within the apparatus of the COMPUTER and its input devices (keyboard, mouse, microphone, camera, etc.). It seems to me that emphasis on the first relates to modernism, in the sense that the background is assumed neutral or irrelevant, and that the object itself forecloses on its own interiority; that the second relates to deconstruction, to the extent that the margins and protocols are fore- grounded as much as the embedded objects (all of this is presuming that background is visible and somewhat well-defined); and that the third relates to postmodernism, to the extent that it is also cyborgian, inter- ior and exterior simultaneously. In any case, I'd like to see a phenomeno- logy of this issue (which might be related to, say, Sherry Turkle's or Brenda Laurel's work), somewhere, sometime. It seems to me that emphasiz- ing the domain or tenor of a site instead of its components (which are emphasized especially on those webpages, that, say, ask if you have this or that plugin) is a way of approaching both experiential issues, and issues of virtuality which rely on encompassing the spectator and her or his body, in relation to the coding, the writer, the producer, the artist, the director, etc. One might consider levels of interaction, moving from the user's body and its own foregrounding/backgrounding (see Drew Leder, The Absent Body), through a phenomenology of the lived environment. Change the focus to the "digital apparatus" itself (in the sense of the "cinematic apparatus") - to the increasing diversity of displays. From displays, it is a difficult step to the internal margins of the visual (and are there parallels in sound as well?) - and the introjections/projections associated with images and flash and other multimedia components. (As the case may be, extend this farther to actively responding joysticks, teledildonic apparatus, etc.) I would be interested in the ways that such introjection and pro- jections (what I call "jectivity") operates in internal world-building - where, in other words, is the user, psychologically, in the midst of all of this. We know that one can easily inhabit the reduced audio-visual bandwidth of a MOO or MUD, and even a novel; in multimedia, the singular experience of reading is broken up by mouse-clicks, attention structures across the screen, and so forth. How does this heterogeneity function in terms of worlds? How does one move within these spaces, which can often appear, as the modernist gallery, as an accumulation of objects against presumably "irrelevant" white walls? Does the white background of the screen function as such a wall? Does a background color create a different kind of experience altogether? What is the phenomenology of jectivity in general, across the various sensory modalities? The point of all of this is both practical - knowledge of the psychologi- cal processes that are involved in world-building, from both a design and a user viewpoint - and theoretical - how do we make sense of _any_ world, foregrounding and background what we ascertain, for ourselves, are objects within it? How, in other words, _are worlds inscribed?_ Multimedia pro- vide profound tools for research here; there's always something behind the holodeck, waiting to be fished out. ii Note on forgotten space - Let us talk about the _forgotten space,_ the space between the object and the frame, the space neither of containment nor the intensity of edges. It is this space which shimmers, always present, even if driven to the suicide of the line as the object fills the frame - it is this space which is the true screen, never present, an inexplicable absence, were it to be named. If the dream screen is presumed always to background, this forgotten space is _neither here nor there,_ but virtual, in the sense of the virtual particles of the vacuum. Its presence is its annihilation; it is most likely white or black, perfect absorption, perfection emission. I place this screen certainly the side of the analytic; it is just as like ly to exist as a token for the diffused or exhausted, the turbulent. Nei- ther the matrix out of which the symbolic object arises, nor the symbolic itself - neither the chorus of indecipherable languages nor the chora it- self, the forgotten space is always already named, discarded, the origin of /dev/null to which useless output is ascribed. So to talk about this space is that which is most natural in the world, since it is the space of the object's jostling within or among places, spaces, others. One might say it gives birth to the burden of the proper name, and measurab- le, it is of no size whatsoever. Before you look at the matrix of media, look at the forgotten spaces, which make or break inhabitations - and the more forgotten, the better. iii forgotten space among the objects and the margins of the screen framework or the central division which is forgotten places, not spaces, open elements, line segments somewhat obliterated the spaces seething granular and seething in the distance, a line, smooth, clear, boundary perceptual object = let us say, what the mind tells us the speaking of the mind through the fog of forgotten space across the bay, along the floor of the sea, on the side of the valley nothing wandering inscribes and the trembling of kanji into mist forgotten space surrounding gotten space gotten space triumphant, bounded, areas of languages and protocols what is laying there holding somewhere what is laying there sheets of assertion, unassigned pixels, useless waves of background color pooling of background color, spreading around negative shapings, places just a moment ago, about to me, something, somewhere over there not forgotten space among the margins of the screen, a space, a screen not thinking one into places but looking at people others but not others, people some people they told me about some places, the they saying, anyone saying background inscriptions, spreading around negative propositions places, the perhaps, main() or void, dev/null or some other placings iv forgotten space \ \________[coupling]________/ {forgotten space} | A coupling is defined as (a,b,c); if a -> a', then (a,b,c) -> (a',b,c) as opposed to a linkage in which if a -> a', then (a,b,c) -> (a',b',c'). In forgotten space, objects are combined as couplings or concatenations without an intrinsic linking. Forgotten space is neither matrix nor con- tainer/chora; it is the of-jostling, nothing more nor less. Think of the spacings of multimedia objects. A coupling in this regard may be considered a generated perceptual group- ing of relatively well-defined objects. An object is defined as a rupture or insertion into forgotten space. An object is also a skein of bits and bytes, ranging from the performative to static files. The former is al- ways triply encoded; the latter, more often than not doubly encoded. Text- ual insertions into forgotten space (i.e. ascii text) activate the space, i.e. it becomes gotten space, the sheet of assertion or subtextual matrix of structure 'holding' the ascii in place. Movement in dhtml across for- gotten space is in relation to the screen or object boundaries; the space itself carries no distinction. Or perhaps the space, like the phallic masquerade itself, assume identi- ties, forgetfulness taking on the characteristics of the current diegetic in relation to the viewer's dialogic - in which case, one might well turn away in disgust, there's no hope for it. Still, I wouldn't call it a space of potential, it's there, forgotten, stillborn in relation to the objects contained - in fact, it's charted, mobilized, for their location in terms of window percentage (30% vertical say) or pixels (400 horizontal say). The charting is for them; they're tracked across the forgotten space. Any landmark is charted as well; there is the forgotten space, and the chart- ing of the landmarks. And there is nothing else, the forgotten space hard- ly nomadic, on the verge of presence, neither shifting nor present. The image is of the gotten space, always of such. Everything is coupled within the image. _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:46:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Summi Kaipa Subject: government funding in the arts In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed hello all-- i'm trying to get a concrete sense of what is happening to government funding in the arts. that is to say, everyone speaks of the "trend" in arts, the cutbacks in the nea budget, etc.--but what are smaller, non-prof organizations feeling both by the nea and by state arts orgs in numbers? anybody out there head an arts org and have specific examples of slashes, i.e. how much of a decrease in funding they have received over the past 10 years or whatever? particularly, i'm interested in examples of organizations/people who have had some dealings with the california arts council--or other state arts councils whose behavior might be akin to the cac (maybe new york?) or, if you know something about the type of people who sit on the state/federal arts panels and where to get more info about this, please do tell. please backchannel with info, thanks. summi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:12:28 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: re Bromige And the Provinces Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >I guess, David, that I'm increasingly wary of hierarchies of "excellence." >Especially ones that are based on geographical and, perhaps?, class >distinctions. > >TomB. specialy when you are an australian who has always enjoyed his low-key choices//pet spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:17:02 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: class Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Some notes on class: >>4. Is class class origin? In this case if you come from working class you >are always such, even if you end up living the style of another class. Is >it affiliation or "identity"? Is it where you are now, where you will be, >or where you come from? If you write in Robert Pinsky middle-brow style, >even if you are working class origins, what is the class of your poetics? > >5. In the interest of full disclosure, I should point out that I have a >middle to upper-middle class, academic background (surprise!). Grandparent >farmers in Mountain states, grandparents, uncles etc... govt. >bureaucrats, accountants, college professors, etc... Access to cultural >capital is key here. As University professor myself I basically do now >what I have done my whole life: read books, go to bookstores, write and >think about what I've read, talk to others about this, etc... This is my >class existence, and didn't really change much when I didn't have money as >graduate student. > > >Jonathan Mayhew >jmayhew@ukans.edu > yeah well my full disclosure would be after 35 years working around factories someone dropped a pile of shares on us/ just because we have half a million in banks doesn't mean i'm going to vote for service cuts in banks just to please the dividend//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:00:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: juliana spahr Subject: review of Tardos's Uxudo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reviews From Publisher's Weekly - Publishers Weekly Pan-European ex-pat artist and poet Tardos writes here in spliced together bits of Hungarian, German, French and English, but the pronunciation keys and other linguistic graphs she includes bespeak precise formulation rather than polyglot mish-mash. At its best, Uxudo--a word, we're told, produced by computer error, and seemingly the only non-"real" word here--invites the reader into a world of fraught semantic and phonologic echoes, an effect furthered by being grafted onto video stills (mainly of women at different stages of life) which repeat, along with the words, in serial alterations. As visual poems, they resemble French Lettrism, with their clashing fonts and loose margins, engendering an endearing, consciousness-like chaos. In one instance, a flurry of equal signs shows the poet lost in equivalences--"quake = tremblement = Beben = renges"--paradoxically less present in the text when giving us its code. Tardos's linguistic isolation is most pronounced when she is simply being herself: "Hochgeduld after nine from a fountain/ Gekreuzung vielmehr, which is how it's done/ Neighboryly jolie bete/ Give it time, haromvaros." The words following this bit, "Afterimage = Nachbild," as well as much else here, give the work an explicitly post-WWII cast, suggesting post-war Germany's and fascist Europe's often obsessive attempts to find a usable past. Tardos's unique brand of multicultural pathos reminds us that our most pressing issues of identity and empire have been around for many years, and in many guises. (Nov.) Copyright 1999 Cahners Business Information. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:19:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: avant garde / mckenzie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Nov 26, 1999 5:20 PM +0000 From: geraldine mckenzie Subject: avant garde It is misleading to refer to the avant garde solely in terms of novelty. This establishes an association with art as commodity which is generally repudiated by those artists who might be described as avant garde. Novelty is a creature of time and unreliable, a bye product of experiment rather than an end. I've occasionally read critics who refer, with a discreet jubilance, to early instances of various poetics, Concrete poetry is anexample, as though the prior existence of concrete texts invalidates the experimental qualities, the 'newness' of 20th Century engagements. What is more significant is the 'revolutionary' or oppositional nature of a text. It's not a poetic example but I can't help thinking of the teachings of Christ. (Is it relevant to say I am not a Christian and don't believe in God or gods?). These are ideas which are not new but are frequently revolutionary - think of Dostoievsky's Grand Inquisitor or, more recently, the film, Jesus of Montreal - there are some philosophies, aesthetics, ethical beliefs, which will always challenge hierarchical structures. Of course, the responses of orthodoxy will vary. I think Marcuse's theory of repressive tolerance (this may be out of date, I never hear references to it anymore but, when I encountered it years ago, it seemed a very persuasive idea) is relevant here - protest can be turned into a commodity and look how successfully this was done to the protest movements of the '60's. The majority of most Westerners, especially those under 40 (here comes a generalization) associate that period with sex and drugs and rock 'n roll, then there's the line (which annoys the hell out of me) - If you can remember the '60's, you weren't there. I think we all here know that's bullshit, but that's the official version, the received idea. And what did happen to the revolution? Well, civil rights/ feminism/the anti-war lobby/the environmentalists have all made some progress but the structures persist, the marketplace rules, input into the big decisions (was it ever a possibility? probably not) is traded off for the illusory comforts of 'personal freedom' - 'choice a banality in the supermarket'. Meanwhile, in the marketplace, the 'novelty' of the avant garde signals just another item for sale -or so some would like to think. If the experimental only referred to technique, this might be so, but when it refers to ideas or modes of thought, then it can constitute a challenge to what Bernstein accurately terms'official verse culture' and which, despite various 'local' successes by experimental poets, is still very much in place. I doubt the avant garde (only refering to poetry, I shan't buy into all those other ball games) can have any political impact in the narrow sense of the word, but it does maintain an area of opposition and creation, a sense of possibility and risk absent from conventional poetries. To say it does not, and can not, exist is either wishful thinking or a form of cultural despair, a loss of faith not only in poetry, but also language, and thus - us. (This is where I have to shut up or I'll get really carried away - Regards, Geraldine McKenzie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:36:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Class and Money MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am struck by Jonathan Mayhew=92s notes on class, and they require more= =20 than one posting to exhaust. I would first like to refer to his observation=20 on a "sort of sentimentalized working-class poetics in Philip Levine":=20 "He doesn't write poems about sitting in his office in Fresno, but about=20 being an auto worker in Detroit 40 years before. What's sentimental is=20 precisely the displacement, the idea that actually working on the assembly=20 line is more authentic." The same day, Pete Spence responds to Maria Zavialov: "Suddenly I remembered that I should know about working class a lot. >I was thoroughly drilled in marxism and leninism all through many years of >school and university back in the 70s in the Soviet Union." M.Z. > i'd thought maybe doing a bit o' labour because it was your only option would be a better sampler than being drilled by theory//pete spence" Does Pete have a special knowledge that Maria belongs to the idle reach?= =20 Or is it implicit in his comment that labor is only labor ("authentic") if i= t=20 is working class? Is this an example of the "sentimental working-class=20 poetics?" Maria=92s comments, I believe, are more complicated than Pete assumes. T= hey=20 imply (as her prior observations on "place" do) the point that "working=20 class" is essentially a historical concept, created by Marxism. And in=20 Marxism class is inextricably linked with money. =20 In earlier periods the language of social stratification has very=20 different connotations. The medieval "chain of being" accepts those division= s=20 as divine order, without the utopian sense of progress of Marxism. From 17th= =20 century on the lower classes are the "unruly mob," demonized, conceptionally= =20 even worse off than before. Neither of the two explicitly connects class to=20 money. Consequently, class is treated as a subset of culture, a culture whic= h=20 serves the ends of those who already own the money.=20 How much of our founding fathers=92 idea of democratic government is=20 obsessed with suppressing (controlling, rendering voiceless) the unruly mob=20= (a nother phrase for the owners of no property), integrating, how much of the=20 royalist Hobbes as of John Locke? "Speech starts with money": this is a=20 systemic/constitutional fact. Before money (word) there is nothing (chaos,=20 yohu vavohu).=20 =20 I have problems with the fifth item on Jonathan=92s list: "In the interest of full disclosure, I should point out that I have a middle to upper-middle class, academic background (surprise!). Grandparent farmers in Mountain states, grandparents, uncles etc... govt. bureaucrats, accountants, college professors, etc... Access to cultural capital is key here. As University professor myself I basically do now what I have done my whole life: read books, go to bookstores, write and think about what I've read, talk to others about this, etc... This is my class existence, and didn't really change much when I didn't have money as graduate student." Jonathan appears to say that class essentially is equivalent to culture i= n=20 the United States. This is so if class expresses itself in writing only in=20 terms of the class origin of the writer? Then, it is true, as Jonathan notes= ,=20 a contradiction develops when a person moves up the economic scale, which is= =20 quite possible in the States. But what about class, reflected in terms of wh= o=20 supports or pays for the written product? Then, Jonathan=92s financial=20 sacrifice as a graduate student is a temporary state, as an intern=92s on th= e=20 way to becoming a doctor. I=92ll take a step further. Suppose one pries poetry loose from the=20 university/teaching system which supported it the last twenty years, and one= =20 faces the absolute economic non-viability of poetry as an economic product.=20 How does embracing squarely this non-viability affect the nature of a poem?=20= I=20 believe that the issue of class in poetry is linked directly to it. And poet= s=20 who integrate this "uselessness" into their work form a class (a kind of=20 unruly mob with no economic interest in the system), regardless of their=20 personal backgrounds or the "material" of their poems for that matter. To spell out this idea in more detail is for another day.=20 I would like to thank Rebecca for her response to my post "virtual=20 democracy." Her eloquent self-definition through a series of negatives is=20 exactly the kind of a poet=92s class consciousness I am talking about: =20 "I cannot attend the poetry events announced here. My participation is=20 currently limited to reading the list; I haven't posted to the list for a=20 long time. Experience has made me reticent. I have not read and will not=20 read many of the works under discussion here. I do not know even one member=20 of the list. I am unknown; I do not publish. I am not affiliated with an=20 educational institution or any group known to any member of this list." Murat Nemet-Nejat=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:43:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: INCUBATION: FINAL CALL FOR PAPERS - Deadline 1 December 1999 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII FINAL CALL FOR PAPERS Deadline 1 December 1999 Incubation: A trAce International Conference about Writing and the Internet 10-12 July 2000 The Nottingham Trent University, Nottingham, UK http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/ Keynote Speakers: Teri Hoskin, Geoff Ryman and Gregory Ulmer The trAce Online Writing Community connects more than a thousand writers and readers in over 60 countries. Together we have built a vibrant and energetic online culture where text is always the focus. This conference offers the chance to meet in a physical space to talk about the nature of writing and reading on the internet today. We invite papers which debate, discuss or demonstrate any of the following: TEXT : NARRATIVE : INVENTION The web is home to a huge variety of narrative forms: fictions using a traditional narrative structure within the framework of hypertext; works operating across literary genres; ficto-criticisms which consider the medium directly; poetic writings that seek to dishevel the structure of language; pidgin languages and texts; the blurring of image/word/sound so that the very design itself becomes the writing; and the liberation from the alphabet. But what does all this mean to the traditional print author or reader? And how do both the mode of distribution and the corporate-owned formats affect content and style? This theme examines the discovery and invention of new literary forms and theories, and the re-emergence, online, of textual experimentation predating the internet. It seeks to contextualise online literary production and features some of the breakthrough online projects that are helping to shape the early history of writing online. We invite authors, readers and critics to explore their engagement with the internet and to look at the ways in which text has evolved online. TEXT : COMMUNITY : CREATIVITY The internet has offered us the chance to connect with people around the world in ways we could never have imagined. What effect is this having on creativity and artistic collaboration, including the notion of lone author as individual genius? Society takes on a different complexity when the identities of its members may be multiple, collective, or fragmented. How do we build and administer our online communities? And what happens when so many nationalities, cultures and languages intersect? This is a good moment to consider what it is to be human and how we are engaging with technology in ways we have never done before. The flux of the net challenges our assumptions about identity, self, nature, language, nation, time and space and disrupts the ways in which we construct meaning. How are writers responding to new experiences of online community, creativity, spirituality, and the body? TEXT : PUBLISHING : OWNERSHIP Publishers just don't seem to know what to do with hypertext. Contemporary notions of authorship and ownership are being reconfigured by the advent of new technologies like the Internet. How are both mainstream and radical publishing responding to notions of copyright, public domain, and copyleftism? And where do new forms of work fit in? Is the book really dead? Will networking and collaborative authoring transform the literary into something else? Is it true that online writing communities and web.narrative projects are being embraced by media and art institutions but ignored by print publishers? There are many burning practical questions to be addressed. Are online works Read-Only consumer products? How does the public own/appropriate an online work? How would you present a web narrative project without a computer? Which form would you use? And how would you sell your online work? ABSTRACTS SHOULD BE 300 WORDS MAXIMUM DEADLINE DECEMBER 1 1999 HOW TO SUBMIT YOUR PAPER Papers may be submitted via a web form, found at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/ If you would like to be kept informed about the Incubation conference, please contact: Rose Athow, NCL Admin Centre, The Nottingham Trent University, Burton Street, Nottingham NG1 4BU, UK Tel + 44 (0) 115 948 2249 Fax + 44 (0) 115 948 6536 email: ncladmin@ntu.ac.uk trAce Online Writing Community Nottingham Trent University Clifton Lane Nottingham NG11 8NS ENGLAND Tel: ++44 (0)115 9486360 (direct line) Fax: ++44 (0)115 9486364 http://trace.ntu.ac.uk trace@ntu.ac.uk ___________________________________ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please email trace@ntu.ac.uk with 'unsubscribe' as the subject line. ____________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:33:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: PhillyTalk #14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PhillyTalks 14 > Dan Farrell / P. Inman > THIS MONDAY, Nov. 29, 6pm > Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk Philadelphia (215) 573-WRIT http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/phillytalks > Dan Farrell is the author of *Last Instance* (Krupskaya, > 1999), *(Untitled Epic Poem on the History of Industrialization > by R. Buckminster Fuller, pp. 1-50) Grid* (Meow Press, 1999), > *ape* and *Thimking of You*, both from Tsunami Editions. > Forthcoming from Coach House Press is *The Inkblot Record*. > Dan is a recent resident alien of Brooklyn NY, and works as a > financial proofreader. > > P. Inman was born in 1947 & raised on Long Island. He > graduated from Georgetown University a year after Bill Clinton. > Since 1980 he has worked at the Library of Congress, where he > has been active as a union rep & negotiator for Local 2910 of > the American Federation of State, County and Municipal > Employees. His most recent books are: *at. least* (krupskaya), *vel* > (o books) & *criss cross* (roof). He's appeared in anthologies in > three different languages. Their newsletter dialogue is now available. Please email me for copy. Best, Louis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:00:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Randy Prunty Subject: ARTEMESIA.....new mag call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (i'm posting this for my daughter. send any queries or correspondence to her. thanks, randy prunty) <> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:29:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: re Bromige And the Provinces In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dont you know me better than that? My >point was (I think) that not all regionalism is gonna be okay. > >David Well, I dont know. I just reread Bromige's _My Poetry_ in the very regional South Okanagan Valley, and it was as sharp as always. Except for the piece about the gnu. GB George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:31:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: re Bromige And the Provinces In-Reply-To: <0.ba442190.256b4cd5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I guess, David, that I'm increasingly wary of hierarchies of "excellence." >TomB. This could use some explanation. Does not excellence imply hierarchy? George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:58:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** Don't miss the George Oppen Lecture ** Thurs Dec 2 ** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ There is the area of Lyric---the area in which one is absolutely convinced that one's emotions are an insight into reality and death But values-- as they say- (from George Oppen's "DAYBOOKS," edited by Stephen Cope; reprinted from THE GERM: A Journal of Poetic Research, No. 3, April 1999) THE ANNUAL GEORGE OPPEN MEMORIAL LECTURE ON TWENTIETH CENTURY POETICS Presented by STEPHEN COPE Thursday December 2, 7:30 pm at The Unitarian Center, 1187 Franklin at Geary San Francisco Poet Stephen Cope, of UC San Diego, is currently working on a book-length edition of George Oppen's WORKING PAPERS, a selection of which appeared recently in The Germ, No. 3 (quoted above). Fascinating material, Oppen's as yet unpublished writings in the form of his "Day Books" or "Working Papers" greatly exceeds in volume his published work, including the Collected Poems and Selected Letters. Stephen Cope's work on editing and presenting these unpublished writings promises to be a revelation for anyone interested in the drift of poetics in the latter half of the century, and George Oppen's extraordinary contribution to the thinking of--and thinking by means of--poetry in our time. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Cold water flats---but i think that of all those who committ'd suicide in the 16 century, none killed themselves because there was no such things as hot running water in the world. Diction. the distinction is in the words I do not use, more than in the words I do use. I use the words for large and for small often. Because scale is important, just because it is subjective. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ 415-338-3401 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:23:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Monday's poetry reading / Fouhy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message came to the administrative account. Chris ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sat, Nov 27, 1999 11:55 PM -0500 From: George Fouhy Subject: Monday's poetry reading Monday's poet....visit site for bio and poem. http://www.bestweb.net/~cindyf/poetry_2000.htm ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII = if truth were told it would insist on words severed, severe, several, with such urgency, nothing of remnants left to speak, bodies supine, eyes sky-stared, several, severe, severed, sky tethered, remnants tethered, with such insistency, urgency, truth would be severed, be severe, be several = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:03:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Katie Degentesh Subject: 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This Thursday, December 2, at Adobe Bookshop (3166 16th St. at Guerrero, SF) at 8 PM 9x9 Industries presents Poet and graphic artist John Jakubowski http://www.wombatworld.com/skoan_fs.htm and Marya Hornbacher, poet, fiction writer, and author of _Wasted: A Memoir of Anorexia and Bulimia_ http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0398/hornbacher/excerpt.html This reading is free! and will be emceed by 9x9's own Jan Richman be there for the last 9x9 reading in 199x9 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 1999 (NINETEEN NINETY (NINE BY NINE) INDUSTRIES) 199X9 9X9 INDUSTRIES http://www.paraffin.org/nine/ nine@paraffin.org GIVE US YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR, YOUR THURSDAY ASSES YEARNING TO SEE PERFORMANCES FOR FREE 9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9X9 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 03:22:50 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Buuck Subject: Gladman, Lu reading in SF 12/2 Bay Area Now LIVE is a series of Thursday evening events occurring throughout the Bay Area Now 2 exhibition and festival. Bay Area Now LIVE will include readings, discussions, tours and performances featuring local celebrities and artists. All events begin at 6pm and end by 8pm and are FREE with gallery admission. Thursday, December 2 Rene Gladman & Pamela Lu [ Seven01 Café 6pm ] This kick-off event, features readings and discussion by two women artistsfrom the Bay Area lit scene. Renee Gladman edits Clamour, a magazine of innovative writing, andLeroy, a chapbook series. Most recently, her work has appeared in Gare du Nord, An Anthology of New (American) Poets (Talisman House) and Tinfish #7. Pamela Lu is co-editor of Idiom (www.idiomart.com), an online journal and chapbook press. Her first book of fanciful non- fiction, Pamela: A Novel (Atelos Press) was published this year. Yerba Buena Center for the Arts 701 Mission Street (at 3rd) San Francisco 415-978-2700 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:40:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Acharya Hom Raj Subject: introduc In-Reply-To: <199911222104.QAA27424@infobahn.icubed.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII although i am continuously enjoying the postings, i have not yet contributed to the list. Before i do that, i feel, i must introduce myself to the community of poets or to the species, i think, i belong to- my name is Homraj Acharya and i am a poet from a country called Nepal which is a squash between two big boulders: China and India. Currently i leave in Boulder. i am here as a student for about little more than two years. And don't know many members of the same species. Joe Amato is the only person I know from this list. But, certainly, I have heard and have read works of few others from the UB Poetics discussion group. Anyway, lets get to the point: I am interested in knowing more about post-structuralism theory, especially materials written on the subject after 90s and its contemporary critics, however, not being a tudent of English literature, I found some difficulties locating good materials on this particular issue. I would really appreciate if anyone of you gave me some helpful suggestions and some useful bibliographic references, and if the materials are on poetry that would be the best. back channel please. Happy thanx giving, Homraj (Hom) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:42:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathy Lou Schultz Subject: HOW2 event in San Francisco Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit HOW2 celebrates its arrival online Sunday, December 5, 3 p.m. San Francisco Art Institute 800 Chestnut at Leavenworth Forum on "Class & Innovative Writing" panel discussion Dodie Bellamy, Robert Gluck, Camille Roy, Kathy Lou Schultz, Robin Tremblay-McGaw Readings from HOW2, Issues 1 & 2 Simone Fattal for Etel Adnan, Sarah Anne Cox, Norma Cole, Beverly Dahlen, Kathleen Fraser for Frances Jaffer, Susan Gevirtz, Dale Going, Fanny Howe, Myung Mi Kim, Carol Snow, Elizabeth Treadwell, Jo An Wasserman, and Elizabeth Willis Donations welcome HOW2 http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2 Editor: Kathleen Fraser Managing Editor: Jo Ann Wasserman ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathy Lou Schultz Editor & Publisher Lipstick Eleven/Duck Press www.duckpress.org 42 Clayton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1110 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:01:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: New @ Duration Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Duration Press is extremely excited to announce that Burning Deck Press is now online. Featuring a full catalog, with book information & reviews, cover images, & individual title listings for the serie d'ecriture & dichten= series, the address for the site is: http://www.durationpress.com/burningdeck/index.html We would like to encourage all with web sites to add a link to this page. As all should know, for over 30 years, Burning Deck has been central to promoting & publishing innovative American poetry. Also, new to our out of print archive is _It's Alive She Said_, by Cole Swensen. http://www.durationpress.com/archives/cswensen/itsalive/toc.html A few documents from our Alcheringa archive are also available at: http://www.durationpress.com/archives/ethnopoetics/alcheringa/index.ht ml ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:50:01 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: R I Caddel Subject: New BUNTING book... (fwd) Comments: To: british n irish poets , poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:32:42 -0000 From: "Makin, John" Subject: New BUNTING book... New publication... Available from AMAZON and elsewhere soon... BASIL BUNTING ON POETRY, Edited by Professor Peter Makin, Kansai University, Japan.=20 Hardcover, 304 pages, February 2000, from Johns Hopkins University Press, ISBN 080 186 1667. Price GBP sterling: =A332.50. US dollar price not known. Cheers John Makin, Nottingham Trent University, UK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:23:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Frey Subject: Holley, Kelly, Loo, +? at 12/12 NOTcoffeeHouse Comments: To: "Watkins, Ed" , bearde@jevs.org, David Moolten , Tasha329@aol.com, Rich Russell , "McQuain, Kelly" , ChrisBartlett , CindyGiddle , "Frank, Lisa" , NaomiGerbarg , PatEgan , PGNDiversions , PhiladelphiaGayNews , PiersMarchant , PhiladelphiaGayNews , "Warner, David" , "Williams, Nancy" , RachelSimon , RaymondDunn , RichardKeiser , RichRussell , RobertDunbar , RobrtPela , RonSwegman , SarahRothchild , sarahvanarsdale , "Sariego, Buddy" , Mark Lord , giophilp@netaxs.com, Writers House , Sue Benston , daisyf1@juno.com, Patrick Kelly , Seguepjd@aol.com, Paula Straka , Jennifer Johnson , Lisa Sewell , Mauri Walton , tgrant@icdc.com, Yolanda Wisher , aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu, tgrant@icdc.com, Yolanda Wisher , bmcmilla@hotmail.com, Iamblel@aol.com, little@dca.net, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, twourevs@ix.netcom.com, buchanan-richard@dol.gov, CFrey@U.Washington.edu, phoebadams@aol.com, sadorno@philamuseum.org, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, sbenston@haverford.edu, ebest@haverford.edu, brynmawr.edujohnfattibene@juno.com, lmc10@psu.edu, Kyle.Connor@mail.tju.com, cconstan@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, pdarrah@haverford.edu, afilreis@dept.english.upenn.edu, jfoo@sas.upenn.edu, cford@brynmawr.edu, nfoulke@brynmawr.edu, sfried@compuserve.com, mfriedma@haverford.edu, mfriedma@brynmawr.edu, jfritz@haverford.edu, jhart@brynmawr.edu, chenry@haverford.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, john2364@tc.umn.edu, mjjones@brynmawr.edu, mkay@haverford.edu, kirbyl@mcphu.edu, skirby@ledgewood.com, mlord@brynmawr.edu, hlowder@haverford.edu, sarahmce@mail1.netreach.net, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, CM@fpaa.org, jpulver1@swarthmore.edu, jransom@haverford.edu, cridgway@haverford.edu, dsheffie@U.Washington.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, ksherin@dept.english.upenn, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, ssivapal@nyhs.med.cornell.edu, ssumathi@netscape.net, amsmith@haverford.edu, mstremla@haverford.edu, JCTODD66@aol.com, wwhitman@libertynet.org, lwatkins@haverford.edu, iweiss@haverford.edu, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, firstuu@libertynet.org, ashm@libertynet.org, aharon@compuserve.com, allison_cobb@edf.org, ALPlurabel@aol.com, amille1@MCCUS.JNJ.COM, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, Amossin@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, avraham@sas.upenn.edu, banchang@sas.upenn.edu, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Becker@law.vill.edu, BMasi@aol.com, bochner@prodigy.net, BStrogatz@aol.com, cdomingoes@mindspring.com, chanmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, Chrsmccrry@aol.com, coryjim@earthlink.net, Cschnei978@aol.com, daisyf1@juno.com, danedels@sas.upenn.edu, David.Gran@thegarden.com, dburnham@sas.upenn.edu, dcpoetry@mailcity.com, dcypher1@bellatlantic.net, DennisLMo@aol.com, DROTHSCHILD@penguinputnam.com, dsilver@pptnet.com, dsimpson@netaxs.com, ekeenagh@astro.ocis.temple.edu, ENauen@aol.com, ErrataBlu@aol.com, esm@vm.temple.edu, ethan@info.si.edu, evans@siam.org, Feadaniste@aol.com, fleda@odin.english.udel.edu, Forlano1@aol.com, gbiglier@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, goodwina@xoommail.com, hstarr@dept.english.upenn.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, insekt@earthlink.net, ivy2@sas.upenn.edu, jennifer_coleman@edf.org, jjacks02@astro.ocis.temple.edu, JKasdorf@mcis.messiah.edu, JKeita@aol.com, jmasland@pobox.upenn.edu, JMURPH01@email.vill.edu, johnfattibene@juno.com, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kelly@COMPSTAT.WHARTON.upenn.edu, Kjvarrone@aol.com, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, kzeman@sas.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, leo@isc.upenn.edu, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, llisayau@hotmail.com, lorabloom@erols.com, lsoto@sas.upenn.edu, lstroffo@hornet.liunet.edu, marf@netaxs.com, matthart@english.upenn.edu, Matthew.McGoldrick@ibx.com, mbmc@op.net, melodyjoy2@hotmail.com, mholley@brynmawr.edu, michaelmccool@hotmail.com, miyamorik@aol.com, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, mnichol6@osf1.gmu.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, mopehaus@hotmail.com, MTArchitects@compuserve.com, mwbg@yahoo.com, mytilij@english.upenn.edu, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, nawi@citypaper.net, odonnell@siam.org, pla@sas.upenn.edu, putnamc@washpost.com, QDEli@aol.com, rachelmc@sas.upenn.edu, rdupless@vm.temple.edu, rediguanas@erols.com, repohead@rattapallax.com, ribbon762@aol.com, robinh5@juno.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, rosemarie1@msn.com, sernak@juno.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, singinghorse@erols.com, sm1168@messiah.edu, stewart@dept.english.upenn.edu, subpoetics-l@hawaii.edu, susan.wheeler@nyu.edu, SusanLanders@yahoo.com, swalker@dept.english.upenn.edu, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, Tasha329@aol.com, tdevaney@brooklyn.cuny.edu, tosmos@compuserve.com, twells4512@aol.com, upword@mindspring.com, v2139g@vm.temple.edu, vhanson@netbox.com, vmehl99@aol.com, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, wvanwert@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, wwhitman@libertynet.org, zurawski@astro.temple.edu, LeonLoo@aol.com, whpoets@english.upenn.edu, cathleen@unix.temple.edu, Amy Morrison , tosmos@csi.com, elinorfrey@jps.net, ekfrey@jps.net, kelly@dept.english.upenn.edu, sawladynyc@aol.com, mstern1@compuserve.com, kelljay@aol.com, kchizeck@att.net, pandgshinn@earthlink.com, phoebadams@aol.com, sadorno@philamuseum.org, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, sbenston@haverford.edu, ebest@haverford.edu, brynmawr.edujohnfattibene@juno.com, lmc10@psu.edu, Kyle.Connor@mail.tju.com, cconstan@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, pdarrah@haverford.edu, afilreis@dept.english.upenn.edu, jfoo@sas.upenn.edu, cford@brynmawr.edu, nfoulke@brynmawr.edu, sfried@compuserve.com, mfriedma@haverford.edu, mfriedma@brynmawr.edu, jfritz@haverford.edu, jhart@brynmawr.edu, chenry@haverford.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, john2364@tc.umn.edu, mjjones@brynmawr.edu, mkay@haverford.edu, kirbyl@mcphu.edu, skirby@ledgewood.com, mlord@brynmawr.edu, hlowder@haverford.edu, sarahmce@mail1.netreach.net, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, CM@fpaa.org, jpulver1@swarthmore.edu, jransom@haverford.edu, cridgway@haverford.edu, dsheffie@U.Washington.edu, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, ksherin@dept.english.upenn, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, ssivapal@nyhs.med.cornell.edu, ssumathi@netscape.net, amsmith@haverford.edu, mstremla@haverford.edu, JCTODD66@aol.com, wwhitman@libertynet.org, lwatkins@haverford.edu, iweiss@haverford.edu, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, swinick@sas.upenn.edu, Kmiah@crab.rutgers.edu, Steelhammr@aol.com, evelynel@hotmail.com, i123and4@yahoo.com, crios@afs.pvt.k12.pa.us, cahnmann@dolphin.upenn.edu, bstehle@ccp.cc.pa.us, vray@turner-white.com, menski@sprynet.com, tracy1@delanet.com, pembroke9@earthlink.net, msefranek@aol.com, rpsr210@aol.com, jvitiell@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, alurie@earthlink.net, lessner@dolphin.upenn.edu, wstudies@sas.upenn.edu, mholley@brynmawr.edu, LuvPoetess@aol.com, ldevuono@hotmail.com, Bbirtha@nacenter.adopt.org, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, kristing@pobox.upenn.edu, w0000@pottsville.infi.net, JuanitaFB@aol.com, egoldbla@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, Notleya@aol.com, Kyle.Connor@mail.tju.edu, perelman@dept.english.upenn.edu, Zherlsch@aol.com, lisewell@worldnet.att.net, daisyf1@juno.com, nkeita@acad.ursinus.edu, Dlyngard@aol.com, afilreis@dept.english.upenn.edu, jfoo.@sas.upenn.edu, Ayperry@aol.com, cstroffo@phoenix.liunet.edu, bernstei@bway.net, abart.@libertynet.org, ksherin@dept.english.upenn.edu, vmunoz@wellf.edu, oconnor@umdnj.edu, rduplessis@vm.temple.edu, mollyruss@juno.com, jgreen@netreach.net, hlarew@juno.com, hbeavers@dept.english.upenn.edu, josman@astro.ocis.temple.edu, dsilver@pptnet.com, CNSJHK@lyondell.com, dkepling@aol.com, kassabia@crab.rutgers.edu, foxbeth@clam.rutgers.edu, Whistle467@aol.com, jmeredith@crab.rutgers.edu, hthomas@Kutztown.edu, czury@aol.com, margbarr@aol.com, elinorgrace@yahoo.com, Treebard@aol.com, heggen@udel.edu, LeonLoo@aol.com, lauriebg@clam.rutgers.edu, Bryant@bee.net, macpoet1@aol.com, snathan@mhasp.org, leo@pobox.upenn.edu, JanetMason@aol.com, rsillman@hotmail.com, Amossin@aol.com, Lucida48@aol.com, talismaned@aol.com, djanikia@dept.english.upenn.edu, lydia.allen-berry@aig.com, jctodd66@aol.com, Zeidner@crab.rutgers.edu, arts@clam.rutgers.edu, jclayton@clam.rutgers.edu, lshinn@sas.upenn.edu, scrimmwrit@aol.com, bakari1@nothinbut.net, jakins@sas.upenn.edu, lilac1930@aol.com, degibbs@kpmg.com, zenmommy@aol.com, apr@libertynet.org, bcole@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu, kmcquain@ccp.cc.pa.us, lcary@dept.english.upenn.edu, sdunn556@aol.com, kfmoon@aol.com, Sfrechie@aol.com, Ron.Swegman@mail.tju.edu, mmagee@dept.english.upenn.edu, lcabri@dept.english.upenn.edu, sbenston@haverford.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, matthart@english.upenn.edu, amorris1@swarthmore.edu, jpatten@clam.rutgers, singinghorse@erols.com, vfox@progidy.net, Bonairpoet@aol.com, wbradley-2000@yahoo.com, jwcurley@aol.com, jblum@erols.com, pny33@hotmail.com, buskatie@yahoo.com, ellorts@aol.com, rrouff@voicenet.com, whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu, Abdalhavy@aol.com, JJULLICH@Claven.gsb.columbia.edu, itp@nothinbut.net, Bryant@bee.net, Leslie Callahan , rduplessis@vm.temple.edu, "Willie E. Beard" , Nancy Brokaw/David Sanders , jena osman , ashm@libertynet.org, acp21764@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (NOTcoffeeHouse) Poetry and Performance Series Sunday, December 12, 1 pm First Unitarian Church 2125 Chestnut Street Philadelphia, PA 19103 Featured Readers: Margaret Holley directs the Creative Writing Program at Bryn Mawr College, and in spite of that, to her amazement, has managed to write several books worth of poems. Patrick Kelly is America's best-loved poet, considered the greatest writer of the century. Jeff Loo teaches Creative Writing at Community College of Philadelphia and has published in such journals and collections as Many Mountains Moving, Southern Poetry Review, CrossConnect, And What Rough Beast: Poems for the End of the Century . Plus Open Poetry and Performance Showcase $1 admission. Along with a live poetry reading and performance , we invite you to join in our website poetry reading presentation. All poets and performers may have a poem or a lyric featured in theNOTcoffeeHouse website. Send your work for inclusion in the ongoing internet presentation. Tell your friends all over the world to check our site! Poets and performers may submit works for direct posting on the website via email to the webmaster@notcoffeehouse.org or works may be emailed to Richard Frey at richardfrey@dca.net or USPS or hand-delivered through slot at 500 South 25th Street, Philadelphia, PA 19146. More information: Church office, 215-563-3980, Jeff Loo, 546-6381 or Richard Frey, 735-7156. Visit our website at www.notcoffeehouse.org poets & performers previously appearing at NOTcoffeeHouse: Nathalie Anderson, Lisa Coffman, Barbara Cole, Barb Daniels, Linh Dinh, Lori-Nan Engler, Simone Zelitch, Dan Evans, Brenda McMillan, Kerry Sherin, John Kelly Green, Emiliano Martin, Jose Gamalinda, Toshi Makihara, Thom Nickels, Joanne Leva, Darcy Cummings, David Moolten, Kristen Gallagher, Shulamith Wachter Caine, Maralyn Lois Polak, Marcus Cafagna, Ethel Rackin, Lauren Crist, Beth Phillips Brown, Joseph Sorrentino, Frank X, Richard Kikionyogo, Elliott Levin, Leonard Gontarek, Lamont Steptoe, Bernard Stehle, Sharon Rhinesmith, Alexandra Grilikhes, C. A. Conrad, Nate Chinen, Jim Cory, Tom Grant, Gregg Biglieri, Stephanie Jane Parrino, Jeff Loo, Theodore A. Harris, Mike Magee, Wil Perkins, Deborah Burnham, UNSOUND, Danny Romero, Don Riggs, Shawn Walker, She-Haw, Scott Kramer, Judith Tomkins, 6 of the Unbearables - Alfred Vitale Ron Kolm, Jim Feast, Mike Carter, Sharon Mesmer, Carol Wierzbicki-,John Phillips, Quinn Eli, Molly Russakoff, Peggy Carrigan, Kelly McQuain, Patrick Kelly, Mark Sarro, Rocco Renzetti, Voices of a Different Dream - Annie Geheb, Ellen Ford Mason, Susan Windle - Bob Perelman, Jena Osman, Robyn Edelstein,Brian Patrick Heston, Francis Peter Hagen, Shankar Vedantam, Yolanda Wisher, Lynn Levin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:30:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brent Long Subject: Please help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, all... Anyone here know of a good contemporary poetics list to which I could subscribe? Please e-mail me with any suggestions. Thanks in advance, Brent Brent A. Long Corporate Account Representative 617.742.7767 617.742.3118 (fax) brent_long@computertown.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:42:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: this week at the Poetry Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" And here we are, back from our Thanksgiving "vacations." While extended conversation with extended family members does indeed burn a few calories, we're definitely ready to burn off the several hundred more we ingested with the exciting readings happening here this week, including tonight, Monday, Nov. 29th at 8 pm Douglas Goetsch & Jacqueline Waters Goetsch's first full-length collection, Nobody's Hell, was published this year by Hanging Loose Press (copies will be available at the reading). Waters, an intrepid workshop student at the Project, has had work published or forthcoming in the Brooklyn Review, Poetry New York, and The Germ. Wednesday, Dec. 1 at 8 pm Michael Gottlieb & Jen Robinson Gottlieb's most recent books are Gorgeous Plunge (Roof Books) and More Than All, a collaboration with Ted Greenwald. Robinson is the curator of the Poet's Web at the Internet Cafe in NYC and the author of For Conifer Fanatics. and Friday, Dec. 3rd at 10:30 pm Lydia Lunch & Nicole Blackman Lydia Lunch began her career at age 16 as a guitarist and singer for the "no-wave" band Teenage Jesus and the Jerks. Since then, her many projects have included starring in films by underground director Richard Kern; musical collaborations with Nick Cave, the Birthday Party, Kim Gordon, Thurston Moore and many others; and the formation of her own production company, Widowspeak Productions. This is a rare chance to see this rebel multigenre artist read at the Poetry Project. "High priestess of slam, industrial glitterbomb, word uberbabe" Nicole Blackman is reading to celebrate the publication of her first full-length collection of poetry, Blood Sugar (Incommunicado Press). Blackman is the vocalist on the Golden Palomino's album, Dead Inside, and was featured on the KMFDM album Xtort. Tickets for this special reading are $12, $9 for students and seniors, and $8 for members. No advance tickets sales. Admission is door only. Call (212) 674-0910 for more information. *** The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church on the corner of 2nd Ave. and 10th St. in Manhattan. The Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Regular events are $7; $4 for students and seniors. *** If you would like to be removed from this e-mail list, please respond to this message with "remove me" in the subject line. *** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:39:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: NYC reading 12/1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Charles Bernstein at The Poetry Forum New School for Social Research 66 West 12th St (New York City) Wednesday, December 1 6:30 pm in Room 510 ______________________________ 30 minute reading + 30 minute interview ______________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:57:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Looking for Visual artists who use text / Smith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was asked to forward this message to the list. Chris -- From: Terri Smith Date: 11/23/99 2:25 PM -0600 Dear Christopher Alexander, I curate "Temporary Contemporary," a series of monthly, solo exhibits at Cheekwood Museum of Art that feature artists from or currently living in the Southeast. Some of the artists we've featured thus far are: Robert Ryman, William Eggleston, Coleman Coker, Elliott Puckette and Donald Sultan...we've also featured talented, lesser known artists from the region such as Brad Thomas, Andrew Saftel, Chris Verene and Carrie McGee. One type of exhibit I have yet to do, but am very interested in, would feature an artist from (or currently living in) the Southeast whose emphasis in their visual art is poetry/text (or the emphasis in their poetry is visual). I would also be open to installation-style work which includes visuals in conjunction with an audio or video spoken word component. Lisa Jarnot suggested this site as a place to post my inquiry. Essentially people who would be interested in being considered for our Temporary Contemporary series need to send 10-20 slides of their most recent work (if their work is installation with video or audio, I'd like a video or audio tape also) along with a resume/C.V. to my attention (Terri Smith) at Cheekwood Museum of Art, 1200 Forrest Park Dr., Nashville, TN 37205. If anyone has questions or needs more information, they can e-mail me at terris@cheekwood.org FYI -- The gallery space is in one of Cheekwood's contemporary art galleries. The gallery is 90 running feet with 70 feet of useable wall space. For more information about Cheekwood's activities regarding contemporary art, people can check out our web site cheekwood.org. -- this should give artists/writers an idea of the context in which their work would be shown if they were chosen to exhibit. Thank you for your help with this project. If you could e-mail back to confirm you received this request, I would greatly appreciate it. Please also feel free to reply if any of this needs clarifying. Best wishes, Terri Smith ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:32:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAYHEW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Murat wrote: " Jonathan appears to say that class essentially is equivalent to culture in the United States. This is so if class expresses itself in writing only in terms of the class origin of the writer? Then, it is true, as Jonathan notes, a contradiction develops when a person moves up the economic scale, which is quite possible in the States. But what about class, reflected in terms of who supports or pays for the written product? Then, Jonathans financial sacrifice as a graduate student is a temporary state, as an interns on the way to becoming a doctor." Good point. I don't think class is only equivalent to level of culture, but it clearly is not equivalent to the amount of money one has at a given moment either. I see is more as an underlying ethos defining preferences in large number of areas, including aesthetic. And people in academia use class to mean class origin, otherwise it would not make sense to speak of class differences at all since we are all doing the same thing for a living. Who supports and pays for poetry? Good question that I hope will provoke lively discussion... Jonathan Mayhew jmayhew@ukans.edu _____________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:37:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david bromige Subject: re : hierarchies of "excellence" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>I guess, David, that I'm increasingly wary of hierarchies of "excellence." > >>TomB. > >This could use some explanation. Does not excellence imply hierarchy? > > > > >George Bowering. > , George,& other Listmates, I take Tom's phrase "hierarchies of 'excellence'" to mean hierarchies based, as if they were objective, on inescapably subjective judgements as to what is excellent. He is correct to be wary of the term 'excellence.' For e.g., when the Trustees want to purge a college of its troublesome professors, they hire a PreZ who will in the name of excellence roust these malcontents, many of whom are excellent teachers. Or all of whom are excellent teachers, in this best of all possible worlds, Dr Pangloss. (Although, hmm, that was the name of the PreZ). Still, while Ron "The Sheep are on Fire" Silliman appears to favor the inclusion of any blip on the screen in his fractal relief map of the poem**, and while I am one of RS's greatest fans, I dont think that a volume made up of sentences from _Ketjak_ printed each as a separate poem, and lineated rather randomly, would have held the interest of many of us. Truly, RS had an excellent idea. And argued cogently for its excellence, appealing across class-lines for its reception as such. ** [I am notorious for my reading-in, of course. Maybe Ron had no such intention in adopting my term of contempt as if it might be honorific, to him. What argues against this being his intention is his enjoyment of my parodic invention, Jay Gutz, whose loathsome effusions Mrs Gutz, Jay's mom, probably loved. But this is divisive, middle-class thinking on my part, which I learned at privileged institutions I was canny enough to talk my ways into. On acid, it was a whole new cosmos. I spent hours writing the Secret of the Universe on a chalkboard, but next day, all it said was "Evidence." ] Tom Beckett thought well enough of RS's work to devote an issue of his journal _The Difficulties_ to it. Those writing about it did not speak as a wo/man to the effectiveness in the factory and in the farm fields of these poems (though such an argument could certainly be made). It is time, perhaps, that I, Serenus Zeitblom, introduced my class-y self. I was corrupted by literature at an early age by a father who had a Jones for Dickens. Subsequently entering my judgment as to who or what is stupid or excellent have been standards derived from my reading. Possibly I ought to regret the unjust advantages I, child of the working class, was to derive from the largely middle- and upper-class-scripted books I consumed before the advent of tv. I don't know, I guess I'll go ask Adrian Leverk=A8uhn. "The dreadful slowness of things," groaned Matthew Arnold.(Or was it "terrible"?) Here's a poem that falls into the category "The Sheep are on =46ire" for the delectation of the roisterous democrat estheticians among you. (I personally am left of socialism. Perhaps I expect too much of my fellow-persons.) I shall post one of these a week until the last Regionalist Unhierarchic among ye, be sated and cry "Enough!" Sheep Chat This is me shuffling my papers looking for my latest poem called "Reinventing the Wheel." It should be here somewhere. Ah, never mind. I think I remember how it went. Uh, goes: "My lover who left me her Cat Stevens collection took my Allman Bros albums. Life sucks but Shit happens. I write as if talking to somebody in a convention from thirty years ago. If only all my poems were this good. Jay. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:02:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MAXINE CHERNOFF Subject: Two Readings In-Reply-To: <199911242149.QAA09109@infobahn.icubed.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Saturday, Dec 4, 4 pm, Double Happiness, Paul Hoover and Ann Lauterbach Thursday, Dec 9, 5:30 pm, Columbia College, Chicago, Ferguson Auditorium: Paul Hoover and Susan Wheeler ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:04:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Re: Recent David Lehman book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You should really take this up with J. Rothenberg, Katy. "Generosity" is a fine way to think about what we do. And what's been done. At 04:48 PM 11/24/1999 -0500, you wrote: >It sometimes feels like exclusionary politics and/or poetics is considered >avant-garde. > >Sometimes it feels like people think that to denounce something has to do >with being avant-garde. > >I think that generosity is a very avant-garde thing and doesn't get enough >credit. > >If Lehman really means this: > >>depart. While I find this to be a convincing argument, I would sooner >>help to quicken a new avant-garde than pronounce the demise of an old >>one." >> > >then I like that. > >It's hard to be a poet. > >Katy > > k e n n i n g a newsletter of contemporary poetry, poetics, and nonfiction writing http://www.avalon.net/~kenning 418 Brown St. #10, Iowa City, IA 52245, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:19:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: government funding in the arts In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991124174126.0099ada0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It doesnt say so anywhere, but I am guessing that the following is an enquiry regarding matters in the USA. >hello all-- > >i'm trying to get a concrete sense of what is happening to government >funding in the arts. that is to say, everyone speaks of the "trend" in >arts, the cutbacks in the nea budget, etc.--but what are smaller, non-prof >organizations feeling both by the nea and by state arts orgs in >numbers? anybody out there head an arts org and have specific examples of >slashes, i.e. how much of a decrease in funding they have received over the >past 10 years or whatever? > >particularly, i'm interested in examples of organizations/people who have >had some dealings with the california arts council--or other state arts >councils whose behavior might be akin to the cac (maybe new york?) > >or, if you know something about the type of people who sit on the >state/federal arts panels and where to get more info about this, please do >tell. > >please backchannel with info, thanks. > >summi George Bowering. , fax: 1-604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:30:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: a message from the past (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII / a message from the past: a message from the past: P:: for this is the furthermost point of my advance, through and into your time, the time of this mailing, before i return to the tenth century. oh, it has always been assumed that time travel goes from present to past, present to future, and return again, but i am writing to inform you that there are those of us who prefer living in the past, and on occasion venturing to a future already past for those living in the present: this is the safest existence possible, and i am breaking our tradition by informing you, here, and now, of this exigency. for we live safely in a world still populated by numerous plants and animals you have driven to extinction, not to mention numerous ethnic groups which you have violated, eliminated, torn from their native lands, destroyed in every conceivable fashion. our world is still whole, and as long as we move back and forth within it, never venturing beyond, let us say, the date and time of this missive itself, we shall be ensured of permanent domicile, even with the threat of your nuclear war bringing everything to a halt. P:: in the meantime, what is it i wish to say to you? nothing, but a greeting; there is no way to respond, no place of residence within which you may find me. or rather, you might trace one or another life across cities, nations, continents; such a life may or may not cross my own, but at least, if you return to the tenth century, you will be far closer than you are at this very moment. perhaps if i told you my name? it would mean nothing to you of course, although you may call me saki. of course there are many such, and there is no guarantee that this word is properly transliterated, and among us, transliteration is all that exists. so you may think of me as this text, ignoring the consciousness from the past, roaming among lands and centuries, that has produced it. nonetheless, i do call the tenth century my home; i have so many friends there, and the comforting ring of familiarity continues eternally. P:: of course you may, there is always a kindness in that. _________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:46:51 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: class Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >23-Nov-99 16:30 you wrote: > >>Suddenly i remembered that I should know about working class a lot. > >>I was thoroughly drilled in marxism and leninism all through many years >of > >>school and university back in the 70s in the Soviet Union. M.Z. > >> > > > i'd thought maybe doing a bit o' labour because it was your only option > > would be a better sampler than being drilled by theory//pete spence > >It was in good old Soviet times when the State paid for schooling. Now I >have to do quite a bit of labour to support a family of five my husband >being a poet. M.Z. seems to me that the last thing you should support is his being a poet tell him to go out to work what is this thing that poets somehow just buzz around spraying words everywhere and do little else//pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:54:36 PST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pete spence Subject: Re: Class and Money Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > The same day, Pete Spence responds to Maria Zavialov: >"Suddenly I remembered that I should know about working class a lot. > >I was thoroughly drilled in marxism and leninism all through many years >of > >school and university back in the 70s in the Soviet Union." M.Z. > > > >i'd thought maybe doing a bit o' labour because it was your only option >would be a better sampler than being drilled by theory//pete spence" > > > Does Pete have a special knowledge that Maria belongs to the idle >reach? >Or is it implicit in his comment that labor is only labor ("authentic") if >it >is working class? Is this an example of the "sentimental working-class >poetics?" > > >Murat Nemet-Nejat maybe maria could have worded it better ,still think i probably seen closer views of working class than a lot, my father a socialist was under the threat of the "crimes act' here for years and i remember him being interviewed on t.v. knowing he would probably be arrested when he left the studio could go on but!!! sentiment/sediment/saidund meant//pete spence ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:26:36 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Prolegomena to a Phenomenology of Self-Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Call it something, stupid 2. Write on him "You've got a problem -- problems" 3. A name or thing partially perceived all tied up in "nots" 4. "Why can't I buy a vowel?" 5. Name of the farter shame of the mover ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:04:22 -0500 Reply-To: clkpoet@ptdprolog.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Knoebel Subject: Call for papers Comments: To: wr-eye-tings , Webart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the ISAMA 2000 website under construction http://www.cs.washington.edu/isama2000/ with the call for papers The poetry call, more specifically, should read and eventually will read: Poetry/Math/Hypertext "Presentations of poetry based on mathematics are invited. Algorithmic poems, poems in the Oulipian line, poems engaging the content of mathematics, or any other work inspired by the literature/mathematics intersection. Presentations should be 20 minutes in length. Visualization (overheads, computer projections, videotapes, etc.) will be supported." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:04:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hassen Subject: Re: government funding in the arts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit perhaps others would also like to hear on/of this (following)? i know i would. h ----- Original Message ----- From: Summi Kaipa To: Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 8:46 PM Subject: government funding in the arts hello all-- i'm trying to get a concrete sense of what is happening to government funding in the arts. that is to say, everyone speaks of the "trend" in arts, the cutbacks in the nea budget, etc.--but what are smaller, non-prof organizations feeling both by the nea and by state arts orgs in numbers? anybody out there head an arts org and have specific examples of slashes, i.e. how much of a decrease in funding they have received over the past 10 years or whatever? particularly, i'm interested in examples of organizations/people who have had some dealings with the california arts council--or other state arts councils whose behavior might be akin to the cac (maybe new york?) or, if you know something about the type of people who sit on the state/federal arts panels and where to get more info about this, please do tell. please backchannel with info, thanks. summi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: apt in Brooklyn, roomates needed In-Reply-To: <383B03C9.9D6E0859@lava.net> from "Juliana Spahr" at Nov 23, 1999 11:14:49 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy all, My brother, a very nice chap indeed and a wonderful painter to boot, is looking for roomates for his really nice four-bedroom apartment which is located across from the Brooklyn Museum of Art. Backchannel me at mmagee@english.upenn.edu if your interested. -Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:29:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pete Subject: Re: community In-Reply-To: <199911300510.VAA13844@mail.europa.com> from Automatic digest processor at "Nov 30, 99 00:09:36 am" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brent asked, during the thread on regionalism, if anyone had any thoughts on community. Yes, frankly, I think writing is a communal act by definition, and extended, I think writing (especially performing) poetry is more obviously communal. However, I have yet to find anything in the modern world resembling community as it seems to occur in the ancient world. I'm also thinking of present-day (not modern) communities like those studied by the anthropologists. The sense of alienation I experience is precisely the lack of community. It's pretty damned ironic that we gregarious animals become more and more socially disconnected as our technology increases the speed of transportation and communication, but I guess our capability for adaptation results in some kind of tolerance for this condition, intolerable as it will eventually present itself to be. So for me, to some extent, poetry is a social act; the act of an alien seeking community, even if only the mythical community of Elysium. Pete ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:56:27 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Sub Voicive Poetry - end of / start of an era MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quite a few people on this list have read at SVP - Mike Heller, David Bromige, Anselm Hollo in the last few weeks - or visited it. SVP has been at its Sandland St venue for so long, you might be forgiven for thinking that we own the venue... BUT Sub Voicive Poetry has moved to a new venue where it is hoped the readings will take place for at least one season. Maybe for the next 10 years. There will be no more readings at 3 Cups The venue is: Upstairs, Churchill's 59 Mount Pleasant London WC1X 0AE The first reading at the new venue will be on 7th December 1999, Alan Halsey and Gavin Selerie. 8 p.m. for 8.15 p.m. Mount Pleasant is not that far from the old venue and easy enough to find. Anyone who needs it or may need it, please ask me for instructions on how to get there ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:35:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Reiner Subject: Extra, Extra...Gov't to Subsidize Poetry (sort of) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From a Department of Education e-list.... ------------------------------ Poetry Contest: Transportation ------------------------------ This month Transportation Secretary Rodney Slater invited students across the U.S. to compose & submit poems related to transportation in hopes that their writings will inspire them to prepare for transportation jobs in the new millennium by studying math & science. The poetry contest is divided into categories for Grades 1-3, Grades 4-6, & Grades 7-8. The deadline is January 31, 2000. Regional & national winners for each grade category will be announced in March. Winning poems will be published in the Garrett A. Morgan Technology & Transportation Futures Program website & in the program's quarterly newsletter. Winners will be selected based on best presentation of the theme, originality, & artistic interpretation. Contest guidelines & additional information are at: http://www.dot.gov/edu/poetry/ http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot18899.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:08:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: Class & Poet[ry/ics] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Trying to keep up with the list recently, but falling behind every now and again. I'll try to keep this as noninflammatory as possible. The question of class in poetry -- whether it be from the outside (people questioning the class origins of various poets or poetic movements) or the inside (poets wondering about their own authenticity w/r/t class) -- is, more often that not, a question designed to avoid the much more problematic issue of race. Indeed, in the wider world, nobody really *cares* about a writer's class in isolation from his race. When was the last time Byron was attacked for being from the lesire/upper/aristocratic class? Much, much longer ago than he was for being white. Similarly, the "lower class authenticity" carries little weight when the author is white, as can be checked by looking over the class backgrounds of some of the canonized. Not that this is a bad thing, in my opinion. I don't want to touch the issue of race more than to point out that the debate here seems to be interesting in as much as it is about things internal to a writer's poetics. Sociologically, politically, the examination of class in poetry is a blind for (mainly white) critics who want to distract attention from the issue of race. But when we ask about a writer's relation to class -- his/her own, or another's -- *in poetry*, aesthetically, we start asking very interesting and *neat* questions that for me circle around (who else but) Marx and, in particular, the idea of alienation. -- Simon sdedeo@fas.harvard.edu http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~sdedeo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:32:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: new chapbooks by women Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sarah Anne Cox and I are looking for the LATEST chapbooks by women to write about in HOW2 for spring. Need em quick, deadline looming. Thank you. Elizabeth Treadwell PO Box 9013 Berkeley, CA 94709 http://users.lanminds.com/dblelucy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:40:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dickison Subject: ** Oppen Lecture ** Clarification ** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Contrary to the faulty listing in the Chronicle this past Sunday, the true location for Stephen Cope's George Oppen Memorial Lecture this Thursday Dec 2 will be, as announced, at the Unitarian Center & NOT at the Poetry Center. Also, a couple people out there have expressed the desire to move themselves from a 6:00 reading by Renee Gladman & Pamela Lu at Center for the Arts on Mission Street up to Mr Cope's lecture on Franklin & Geary. There will be some air around the 7:30 starting time-- the latter event will likely start, as per poetry practice, at 7:47......see you there if you can make it. >THE ANNUAL GEORGE OPPEN MEMORIAL LECTURE >ON TWENTIETH CENTURY POETICS > >Presented by STEPHEN COPE > >Thursday December 2, 7:30 pm >at The Unitarian Center, 1187 Franklin at Geary >San Francisco =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Dickison, Director The Poetry Center & American Poetry Archives ~ San Francisco State Univers= ity 1600 Holloway Avenue ~ San Francisco CA 94132 ~ 415-338-3401 ~ ~ ~ L=E2 taltazim h=E2latan, wal=E2kin durn b=EE-llay=E2ly kam=E2 tad=FBwru Don't cling to one state turn with the Nights, as they turn ~Maq=E2mat al-Hamadh=E2ni (tenth century; tr Stefania Pandolfo) ~ ~ ~ Bring all the art and science of the world, and baffle and humble it with one spear of grass. ~Walt Whitman's notebook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:46:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Fwd: Humor: Rules for Singin' the Blues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" from a neighboring list >forwarded message >|||O|||///\\\///\\\\////\\\||||///\\\\////\\\///\\\|||O||| > >Rules for Singin' the Blues > >> 1. Most blues begin "woke up this morning". >> >> 2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the blues, unless you >> stick something nasty in the next line. "I got a good woman - >> with the meanest dog in town". >> >>3. Blues are simple. After you have the first line, repeat it. Then >> find something that rhymes - sort of: "Got a good woman with the >> meanest dog in town. He got teeth like Margaret Thatcher and >> he weigh 500 pound". >> >>4. The blues are not about limitless choice. >> >>5. Blues cars are Chevies and Cadillacs. Other acceptable blues >> transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Walkin' >> plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die. >> >>6. Teenagers can't sing the blues. Adults sing the blues. Blues >> adulthood means old enough to get the electric chair if you >> shoot a man in Memphis. >> >> 7. You can have the blues in New York City, but not in Brooklyn or >> Queens and DEFINITELY not in Staten Island. >> >>7a. Hard times in Vermont or North Dakota are just a recession. >> >>7b. Chicago, St Louis, and Kansas City are still the best places >> to have the blues. >> >>8. The following colors do not belong in the blues: >> >>a) Violet >> >>b) Beige >> >>c) Mauve >> >>d) Puce >> >>9. You can't have the blues in an office or a shopping mall. The >> lighting is wrong. >> >>10. Good places for the blues: >> >> a) The Highway >> >> b) The Jailhouse >> >> c) An Empty Bed >> >> Bad places: >> >>a) Ashrams >> >>b) Gallery Openings >> >>c) Weekends In The Hamptons >> >>d) Wine-tastings in Napa >> >>e) The Santa Fe Opera >> >>f) Anywhere in Durango, Colorado >> >>11. No one will believe it's the blues if you wear a suit, unless you >> happen to be an old black guy. >> >>12. Do you have a right to sing the blues? Yes, if: >> >> a) Your first name is a southern state - like Georgia >> >> b) You're blind >> >> c) You shot a man in Memphis >> >> d) You are unable to be satisfied >> >> No, if: >> >> a) You were once blind but now can see. >> >> b) You're deaf. >> >> c) You have a trust fund or 401K. >> >>13. Neither Julio Iglesias nor Barbra Streisand may sing the blues. >> >>14. If you ask for water and your baby gives you >> gasoline, it's the blues. >> >> Other blues beverages are: >> >> a) Cheap Wine >> >> b) Whiskey >> >> c) Muddy Water >> >> Blues beverages are NOT: >> >> a) Any mixed drink >> >> b) Any kosher wine for Passover >> >> c) Yoo Hoo (all flavors) >> >> d) Perrier >> >>15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's blues death. >> Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is a blues way to die. So >> is the electric chair, substance abuse, or being denied treatment in >a >>hospital >> emergency room. It is not a blues death if you die during >> rhinoplasty, a liposuction treatment, or while receiving dental >implants. >> >>16. Some blues names for women: >> >> a) Sadie >> >> b) Big Mama >> >> c) Bessie >> >>17. Some blues names for men: >> >> a) Joe >> >> b) Willie >> >> c) Little Willie >> >> d) Lightning >> >>Corollary >> >>1) Anyone with the name of physical infirmity (Old Blind Joe, >> Gimpy Jackson etc) >> >>2) Anyone with last name of a president (Jefferson, Johnson, >> Fillmore, etc.) >> >>(Persons with names like Ashley, Sunshine,Sequoia or Sierra will not be >> permitted to sing the blues no matter how many men they shoot in >Memphis.) > >|||O|||///\\\///\\\ afrikan.net/hype ///\\\///\\\|||O||| ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:39:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Nielsen, Aldon" Subject: Re: Recent David Lehman book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I think that generosity is a very avant-garde thing and doesn't get enough >credit. > which puts me in mind of the closing section of Antin's "What It Means To Be Avant Garde" (with apologies to David for typing over his typography): nothing within the horizon of my discourse could have prepared me for that moment with my aunt fanny who had just lost the husband she'd lived with for over forty years and was now on the telephone and it seems to be that if you cant respond to that youre not in the avant garde [by the way -- does anybody have the book at hand? is that "seems to be" a typo for "seems to me"? I'm taking this from C. Beach's reprint in his anthology]