========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:32:42 -0600 Reply-To: "swiss@uiowa" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "swiss@uiowa" Subject: TIR Web//New Issue (Nov. 2002) Available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" TIR WEB A journal of New Media and experimental writing and art, The Iowa Review = Web is published at the University of Iowa with support from the = Department of English and in collaboration with The International Writing = Program and the Iowa Review. Volume 4, Number 8 (November 2002) ************************************* ALL NEW!=20 Scanner: New Sound Art and an Interview + "Listening at the Pictures" Scanner's diverse body of work includes soundtracks for films, = performances, radio, and site-specific intermedia installations. He has = performed in and created works for many art spaces, including San = Francisco MOMA (USA), Hayward Gallery (London), Pompidou Centre (Paris), = Tate Modern (London) and the Modern Museum (Stockholm). + Read "Experimental Literature Was Really The First Kick:" An Interview = with Scanner BY Rebekah Farrugia. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + "A loss is less and death is not so easy" Katheryn Rantala has work appearing in Notre Dame Review, South Dakota = Review, Crowd and others print journals as well as in a number of online = publications. *************************************** + Pedagogy. Cultural Studies. Jerry Springer!=20 Davis Schneiderman is Chair of American Studies and an Assistant Professor = of English at Lake Forest College in Illinois. Read "Our Day with Jerry Springer" **************************************** FROM 91 MERIDIAN + Guillermo Mart=EDnez , who teaches in the Mathematics Department at the = University of Buenos Aires, is one of Argentina's best known young writers.= He has published three novels and a book of stories. Read: STATEMENT ON SEPTEMBER 11: On cynicism, indifference, and naivete.=20 ************************************* ***************************** Coming up:=20 Interviews, criticism and New Media work by Stuart Moulthrop, Diana = Slattery, Joseph Tabbi, Jody Zelen, Talan Memmott, Brian Kim Stefans, and = others. ------------------------ The Iowa Review Web: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:26:07 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: David Bromige MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think I read through "The Harbourmaster of Hong Kong" from the library = once but what other titles do people recommend (I know Nick Piombino = recommended a title) the problem is that I think I can only afford (just = now) Desire (I think it is)...but I see for a similar affordable price = Scar* and A Caste of Tens. =20 If peopel do I have an amusing (true story) about Amiri Baraka and his = encounter with a good friend of mine (poet) who may have to remain = nameless...(but it doesnt involve politics as such, if at all)... Richard Taylor (New Zealand) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:59:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: Do poets and critics ever change? In-Reply-To: <002501c2817d$97fb0220$30343544@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed "Whoroscope" was also republished in Nancy Cunard's anthology of selections from works that she had published over the years at THE HOURS press -- At 02:06 AM 11/1/2002 -0600, Thomas Bell wrote: >from the English reviews of _Poems in English (by Samuel Beckett, which is >the only way I was able to find a copy of "Whoroscope" through interlibrary >loan, quotes from back cover, NY, Grove, 1961): "the obscurity results from >the multiple allusions and ellipses. He is a poet." - _The Manchester >Guardian ...it is impossible to 'like' these poems. Butif you can digest >them they will act on the nervous system like lysergic acid, and you will >never be quite the same.' - _Oxford Mail. > >tom bell > >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: >Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html >Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at >http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm >Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ >Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The university professes the truth, and that is its profession. It declares and promises an unlimited commitment to the truth." Jacques Derrida (Without Alibi 202) Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:14:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: lust for life Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >"Lust for Life: The Life and Writings of Kathy Acker" >November 7-8, 2002 at NYU: Fales Special Collections, >Bobst Library, Third Floor, 70 Washington Square South > >Thursday, November 7, 2002 > >6pm Opening Presentation: Speakers: Avital Ronell and Peter Wollen > Special Guest: Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick > >7:30-8:30pm Reception and opening of the exhibition "Lust for Life: >The Life and Wriitngs of Kathy Acker." > >Friday, November 8, 2002 > >9:00am Opening remarks: Steven Shaviro > >9:15-10:45 LABYRINTHS OF GENDER >Caroline Bergvall >Leslie Dick >Judith Halberstam >Catherine Liu >moderator, Linda Kauffman > >11:00-12:30 PHILOSOPHY IN THE BEDROOM >Susan Hawkins >Eleanor Kaufman >Chris Kocela >Barrett Watten >moderator, Ulrich Baer > >2:00-3:30 INFLUENCING ACKER >David Antin >Robert Glueck >Carla Harryman >Liz Kotz >moderator, Ellen Friedman > >4:00-5:30 ROUND TABLE: What is the question/problem/possibility that >Acker's work poses for you in your work? >Nayland Blake >Leslie Scalapino >Carolee Schneemann >Sarah Schulman >Chris Tysh >Matias Viegener >moderator, Lynne Tillman > >5:30: Closing Remarks > >6:00 pm: READING >The final event of the conference will be a reading from Essential >Acker, a collection of Acker's writing edited by Amy Scholder and >Dennis Cooper that will be published by Grove Press in conjunction >with the symposium. Readers will be: > >Richard Foreman >Diamanda Galas >Kim Gordon >Kathleen Hanna >Rick Moody >Sapphire > >For further information please call 212.998.2599 or email >marvin.taylor@nyu.edu. -- -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:27:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: ELEVATOR Grid Project Reminder Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A note to those of you participating in the grid project -- please get your grids in asap. Mike Kelleher ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:41:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Brodeur Subject: BOTH 2 news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello There. Just three little items from BOTH for review: 1.) BOTH 2 is here. I just went and got it from the truck place. 2.) There's a release party for BOTH 2. A very exciting one. 3.) Our website has new work. Ready? ------------------------------------------ 1.) BOTH 2 is now available. This issue is a beautiful blue and features work by: Joshua Beckman - Jenny Boully - Rafael Campo - Robert N. Casper - Nadia Herman Colburn - RJ Curtis - Noah Eli Gordon - Arielle Greenberg - Brian Henry - Daniel McCarthy - Eileen Myles - Pablo Neruda - Travis Nichols - Ronald Palmer - Morgan Phalen - Matthew Rohrer - Laura Solomon - Diane Williams BOTH 2 is 76 pages, perfect bound and well made. It fits in most coat pockets. We measured. Copies of BOTH are just $6. You can order BOTH 1 and/or BOTH 2 by visiting our website at http://www.bothmagazine.com and clicking on the corkscrew. We have a secure ordering system that is quite easy and quick. You can also send checks or money orders made payable to Michael Brodeur for $6 per issue to BOTH, PO BOX 658, ALLSTON MA 02134. BOTH is shipped first class. You should get it in 2 or 3 days. ---------------------------------------- 2.) BOTH 2 LAUNCH PARTY: a big fun time Saturday, November 2nd at the ONI Gallery in Chinatown, Boston. reading: Brian Henry (editor of Verse, author of American Incident, Astronaut and Graft) Andrew Zawacki (editor of Verse, author of By Reason of Breakings) Nadia Herman Colburn (great new local poet) art: Digital prints by Matthew Nash and the ONI Gallery's Lost Lost Time exhibit Plus music, food, treats, books and friends. Doors: 7:30 - Reading: 8:15-9:00 - reception to follow $5 gallery donation requested ONI Gallery is at 684 Washington St. on the 4th and 5th floor. Local T-stops: Boylston, Downtown Crossing, Chinatown Please note there is no elevator access. http://www.onigallery.org ---------------------------------------- 3.) BOTHMAGAZINE.COM updates Not everything fit into BOTH 2 that we would have liked you to see. So we're putting other work up on the web. We'll be introducing more every three weeks or so. Now showing at bothmagazine.com: "The Logic of Celibacy (Academic Re: Mix)" by Ronald Palmer 2 Poems by Dorothea Lasky 2 Poems by Sam White 2 Poems by Laura Solomon And coming soon: "Philadelphia Incident Report" found and transcribed by yours truly. ----------------------------------------- We'd like to thank everyone for their continued support. It makes us happy. Thank you. Now please help me empty these boxes so we can move around our living room a little easier. I keep bumping my knee. With love, Michael Andor Brodeur Editor Ha-Ha BOTH magazine http://www.bothmagazine.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:50:54 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: xStream #5 online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarding at Jukka's request.... ----------------------------------- To: Poetics Subject: xStream #5 online xStream -- Issue #5 xStream Issue #5 is online, now in two parts: 1. Regular: Works from 6 poets: Geoffrey Gatza, Richard Kostelanetz, Raymond Farr, Andrew French, Chris Sawyer, mIEKAL aND 2. New Autoissue: Poems generated by computer from Issue #5 texts, now the whole autoissue is generated in "real-time", every refresh. Collaborative issue will now have own schedule. Submissions are welcome, please send to xstream@xpressed.org. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://xstream.xpressed.org email: xstream@xpressed.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:33:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Connecticut Poetry Circuit In-Reply-To: <1bf.12f770c4.2af40aee@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Monday, November 4th at 7:00 pm at the Marcus White Living Room on the campus of Central Connecticut State University (in New Britain, CT), the poet Jeffrey Harrison will be reading as part of the Connecticut Poetry Circuit. Jeffrey Harrison has published three books of poetry: Feeding the Fire (Sarabande Books, 2001), The Singing Underneath, and Signs of Arrival. His work has also appeared in such publications as The New Yorker, The New Republic, Poetry, and The Paris Review. Among the honors he has received are fellowships from the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation and the National Endowment for the Arts, as well as the Pushcart Prize, the Amy Lowell Traveling Poetry Scholarship, and the Lavan Younger Poets Award. Mr. Harrison has taught at several universities. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:40:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: rakosi live In-Reply-To: <1bf.12f770c4.2af40aee@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit carl rakosi claiming to be zukofsky's mentor on women & sexuality alone is worth the price of admission... http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/rakosi.html mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:42:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: for Koch addicts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two posthumous delights. A Possible World gathers in the most recent work. Sun Out collects mostly unpublished very early work, 1952-54. It also offers again, finally, "When the Sun Tries to Go On." I own the original, the first edition of this screwball long poem (which I hunted down), but it is still wonderful to see it back in print. John Ashbery's latest, Chinese Whispers, is also worth a mention. It homages Kenneth's style all over the place. Ashbery, of course, is allowed. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:54:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: RIP Jam Master Jay In-Reply-To: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818D014E280E@mail.emerson.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,67147,00.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:47:27 +0000 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: Eh! what about syntax, you poets? Comments: cc: lcabri@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've paid mine ------------------------ Eh! what about syntax, you poets? -- when the prose goes to poesis?s poses _and opposes_ _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:12:28 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia, and the last Samurai. Followed the rest, turn Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia, and the last Samurai: followed the rest, turn and bow to each other.=20 The watersound, sounding the depth of you followed the others like. = Takes the words out of her mouth, your scent, the last Samurai. Just = look, look at this genealogy, her genealogy plumbing the depths below = the above just below and the burn like crystal sounds bows to her = embraces and holds her fast something like plump and delicious bergamot = and/or oranges and peaches, her. Remember? She asked about, discussing = the discipline, plumbing the watersound CONCENTRATION, she called it, = but no just exploring a point: how they are forbidden to yawn. It would = betray, she said, expose a loss of concentration and asked: What happens = if or when they sleep, do/don't they lose concentration?=20 Fathomed with knots in a rope is called sounding the depth with knots in = the rope=20 She is deep, the last Samurai, deep as the water's sound, and the burn? = Sounds like crystal. and/or glass and the strong dedicated. The = man/&or/woman. The young woman this Samurai daughter of bamboo and = spears at the watersound, she passes the test. Always the water sounds = sweet smelling oranges and peaches.=20 A daughter, Virginia. The last and the one that followed the rest. = Spoiled rotten! Yes!=20 But she bows and she asks when they sleep do they not lose? Are we = speaking of concentration? Perhaps. Virginia, you prig, you asked in = return, perhaps they lose, not concentration, but SELF. CONSCIOUS. NESS? = and Ness Gadol Haya Po and a great miracle occurred:=20 Here at the watersound. The water sounds. And they turn. To one and each = other and bow. This glass genealogy. Mother of daughter the last=20 at last, at last: your Samurai daughter. for Margaret Isobel Rosheen Teasdale born: 1/11/82 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:02:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Fresh Kills Submerge and surrender to the Dopey bliss At least pedophiles have a Hobby I'm hoping the horrible Bastards will Speak my Language or else come and Chew It up You are scamming on All the available Chicks with furious hopes of Making progress, I falter at the goal line hoping for divine Abdication wear your purple Robes for subway encounters I'll wear pajamas or a Parachute for Ferry rides on Garbage sloops No difference has ever been Made and No quarter granted Count the steps it takes to block Bills from becoming laws, to Stop a desperate 2 point Conversion We argue for the Status quo while we Wrestle with Thoughtless change, drop your pants to find a chrysalis _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:04:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Stop in the Name of Love What is up with that Asshole Behrle, lost along quests for visionlessness and late night hurling you toss bottles and Fog and wait while your No One stays out late Carry your cuestick til it's yr turn to Dazzle Or find conniptions in your every Shot You have been punched in the Face and have begged for Mercy But mercy's tricky, a hybrid of blood and rose Do you know who *You're* Playing with? I'm fucking with steam and genitals Red to the touch and getting Raw There's no help for guys like Jim, so What are you Lookin' at? I'm looking at Burning mills and streets fluttering with ash I'm sorry for It's unbecoming to fuck with Beauty or to Tremble Quaking when we should be home, Awake _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month. Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:53:58 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Widdershins around the brood Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Widdershins around the brood Widdershins around the brood on Friday a charm a wisdom in cog ran spent to stretch without pause the clause and passed it, clocked=20 around a sunwise sickle curved and honed. toned all throned In the kitchen bent back over the &/or under the counter. Ridge to base and balked at the roof-tree summit of summat for tea and all on the seventh day. Call it the household of heaven. But call it Whistle, sap & sop the fragment. Drop the stint & don't forget the blessing astray and in ruin or runed. Rock=20 on a covenant=20 Fine talk on the door-jamb Jam on the bog land. This is community Butt in the sand and the analysand apple tree, folds on the kerchief a mode. Mode-us vivendi the blade=20 in the right hand.=20 Narrow pass and stout=20 as the ropes of the thatch.=20 Snatch a few hours of hunt the one=20 without a stint and the gannet forget it just steer between waves. The mighty favours the breeze. Braves the glint-eyed bint to polish on flint. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:16:26 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Coultas And Luoma at the Center for Book Arts Nov 8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Center Broadsides Reading Series: Friday November 8, 7pm Brenda Coultas and Bill Luoma read with limited edition broadsides of their work designed and letterpress printed by CBA Artist Members, available for sale to benefit The Center for Book Arts programs. The poets will be introduced by Marcella Durand. CBA Members FREE, non-members $5 suggested donation good towards broadside purchase. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:51:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: rhizomes 5 is online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE RHIZOMES: CULTURAL STUDIES IN EMERGING KNOWLEDGE www.rhizomes.net ANNOUNCING A SPECIAL ISSUE "OBJECTS AND THEIR SUBJECTS" Including essays on "Networked Economies" "Conspiracy of Commondities" "Sensuous Materiality" "Post-Proustian Glamour" "The Romance of the Mixed Tape" Hyperrhiz Hypermedia And more=85. Rhizomes #6 CODEWORK/SURVEILLANCE enigma, cryptography, morse, communications, electro-mechanisation, instrumentality, signifier, acrostics, seriality, lipogram, randomiser, machine code, industrialism, transformation, transference, symptom, programme, genomics, microprocessors, cartography, translation machines, desiring machines, auto-poietic machines, complex (military-industrial complex), hysteria, conditioned response, information, wireless, ctv, dataveillance, archive, trace, tracking device, implants, macros, influencing machines, panopticality, architecture, information retrieval, mnemotechnics, identikit, intelligence networks, cybernetics, interface ecologies, survey, census, index, hypermedia, digitality, synaesthesia, virtual, spectrality, mirror stage, scepticism, cognition, parapsychology, sublimation, advertising, pornography, censorship, moral majority, intellectual freedom, copyright, trademark, bodies corporate, accountability, freedom of information, =85 Proposals due by November 15, 2002 Papers due by January 15, 2003 Submissions or inquiries to: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D LOUIS ARMAND Department of English & American Studies Philosophy Faculty, Charles University IV. Nam. J. Palacha 2, 116 38 Praha 1, Czech Republic Email lazarus@ff.cuni.cz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:20:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the suite of ember.movs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the suite of ember.movs "I want earthquakes, because I know that then the earth can breathe." - Nijinsky - the great lamina of the stars sway back and forth - you can see the oldest stars - they are pure and clean - they are the youngest - they have no motives - the animal of the victorian woman splayed on the couch - she is in browns and maroons and red - her legs are naked - spread - she is the youngest in the world - she has invented language - she has invented motive - she sways back and forth on the laminar plane - in tune with the rhythms of the universe - the laminar plane and stars are in an 1844 train tunnel riding the harbor to long island - the vault is brickwork painted white - you can still see the cinders on the ceiling - the engines had 7 foot wheels of wood - they were strapped with iron - the stars sway and disappear into the depths of the 1844 brooklyn tunnel which is the oldest subway in the world - the naked woman rides before the stars - her clothes thrown open - thrown to one side - memories of trains - memories of trains - cinders and soot spew forth from an absent object - from an invisible object - they make arcs - they spread - splay - the tunnel is the space of the nineteenth century - o loving eye caressing the objects with totality against totality - searching out tunnels among tunnels, holes among holes - the youngest stars know thee not, neither the oldest, neither the sun or any luminary body - of philosophy - that language is small labor, the reading and writing of it, the speaking of it - the margins of language perform according to persuasion and consensus - the world is invisible to the speaking of the dinosaurs - all culture is a stuttering - "The earth is alive. It was once a sun." - Nijinski - === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 22:17:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: David Bromige MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DESIRE being a selected poems gives the widest range of the work up to 1987. I'm told that A CAST OF TENS is at times an exasperatingly difficult read. I dont know what Scars* might be, unnless it's short for SCARS MAKE YOUR BODY MORE INTERESTING, the first book by Sherril Jaffe, to qhom I was married in the 70s. (I illustrated it). My new book, from Chax Press in Tucson, Arizona, is AS IN T AS IN TETHER. In 1980, The Figures Press, then in Berkeley, Calif., publishrd MY POETRY, a favorite of mine, for what thats worth. Happy Hunting, David B. -----Original Message----- From: richard.tylr To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:25 AM Subject: David Bromige >I think I read through "The Harbourmaster of Hong Kong" from the library once but what other titles do people recommend (I know Nick Piombino recommended a title) the problem is that I think I can only afford (just now) Desire (I think it is)...but I see for a similar affordable price Scar* and A Caste of Tens. > >If peopel do I have an amusing (true story) about Amiri Baraka and his encounter with a good friend of mine (poet) who may have to remain nameless...(but it doesnt involve politics as such, if at all)... > >Richard Taylor (New Zealand) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 22:25:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: lust for life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dont tell us a poet came up with that title. I can still hear Kirk Douglas inquiring for "Mister Gogann". David Bromige -----Original Message----- From: Maria Damon To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:14 AM Subject: lust for life >>"Lust for Life: The Life and Writings of Kathy Acker" >>November 7-8, 2002 at NYU: Fales Special Collections, >>Bobst Library, Third Floor, 70 Washington Square South >> >>Thursday, November 7, 2002 >> >>6pm Opening Presentation: Speakers: Avital Ronell and Peter Wollen >> Special Guest: Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick >> >>7:30-8:30pm Reception and opening of the exhibition "Lust for Life: >>The Life and Wriitngs of Kathy Acker." >> >>Friday, November 8, 2002 >> >>9:00am Opening remarks: Steven Shaviro >> >>9:15-10:45 LABYRINTHS OF GENDER >>Caroline Bergvall >>Leslie Dick >>Judith Halberstam >>Catherine Liu >>moderator, Linda Kauffman >> >>11:00-12:30 PHILOSOPHY IN THE BEDROOM >>Susan Hawkins >>Eleanor Kaufman >>Chris Kocela >>Barrett Watten >>moderator, Ulrich Baer >> >>2:00-3:30 INFLUENCING ACKER >>David Antin >>Robert Glueck >>Carla Harryman >>Liz Kotz >>moderator, Ellen Friedman >> >>4:00-5:30 ROUND TABLE: What is the question/problem/possibility that >>Acker's work poses for you in your work? >>Nayland Blake >>Leslie Scalapino >>Carolee Schneemann >>Sarah Schulman >>Chris Tysh >>Matias Viegener >>moderator, Lynne Tillman >> >>5:30: Closing Remarks >> >>6:00 pm: READING >>The final event of the conference will be a reading from Essential >>Acker, a collection of Acker's writing edited by Amy Scholder and >>Dennis Cooper that will be published by Grove Press in conjunction >>with the symposium. Readers will be: >> >>Richard Foreman >>Diamanda Galas >>Kim Gordon >>Kathleen Hanna >>Rick Moody >>Sapphire >> >>For further information please call 212.998.2599 or email >>marvin.taylor@nyu.edu. > > >-- >-- > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:59:28 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: David Bromige MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David. Some od your books are reaching high values on abe.As a dealer myself I know the factors here. Of course one has to have quality rproduct (in whatever genre) but folded into this is the rarity of the bnbook. Ahainst aht is that sometig won "withstand te market" (rare an second hand) if it is simply rare or old: ( but the collectibility aspect (with its various comlications) is another factor). That said I think that ceratin book dealers of antiqurain and qulity books are of ten well educated and are well aware of the "intrinsic value" ...of course setav aginst that again is taht some will also "pick up" on demand levels for a book. In conclusion: I myself would be quite flatterd to have a book of my own priced at say NZ$600 or so......but fortuantely there are other fedealers who want a quick turn over! The aesthetics and pragmatics of poetics and book selling and making a crust! Thans for you response: my bank balnce got a hammering this week so I 'll search abe in a couple of weeks. But I am interested in possessing and reading various of the innovative authors including the language poets and others. I have Nick's book will be on the look out for others but just now as I say, I have to watch the $ balance. I'l start with DESIRE.... Cheers,Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "dcmb" To: Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:17 PM Subject: Re: David Bromige > DESIRE being a selected poems gives the widest range of the work up to 1987. > I'm told that A CAST OF TENS is at times an exasperatingly difficult read. I > dont know what Scars* might be, unnless it's short for SCARS MAKE YOUR BODY > MORE INTERESTING, the first book by Sherril Jaffe, to qhom I was married in > the 70s. (I illustrated it). My new book, from Chax Press in Tucson, > Arizona, is AS IN T AS IN TETHER. In 1980, The Figures Press, then in > Berkeley, Calif., publishrd MY POETRY, a favorite of mine, for what thats > worth. Happy Hunting, David B. > -----Original Message----- > From: richard.tylr > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:25 AM > Subject: David Bromige > > > >I think I read through "The Harbourmaster of Hong Kong" from the library > once but what other titles do people recommend (I know Nick Piombino > recommended a title) the problem is that I think I can only afford (just > now) Desire (I think it is)...but I see for a similar affordable price > Scar* and A Caste of Tens. > > > >If peopel do I have an amusing (true story) about Amiri Baraka and his > encounter with a good friend of mine (poet) who may have to remain > nameless...(but it doesnt involve politics as such, if at all)... > > > >Richard Taylor (New Zealand) > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 10:48:09 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia: The blackfoil surface reflects white. Celebrant cloth in starts. Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia: The blackfoil surface reflects white. Celebrant cloth in = starts. She had a thought about appearing feather-slippered. The treasure = anchored raw dawn revealing blackfoiled beautiful blackfoiled surfaces reflecting = deflecting a background white. The starts demanding neverending favours disfavoured = do-not-hold-them-back invaders friendly as memories drinking a fill and making a wondering. The sea = looking east and west. As sensible precaution ever even in a velvet starry universe and/or = north and south. The curse of the planets against the universe another planet the = smallest small of smaller planets. Tell all the almsworthy: to avoid mishap carry the blessing and put the = instructions in first. A festival of verse among the constellations feasting on three-cornered = cakes and remember to share the consecration remember to share the consecration. A toast. A = toast. The dancers guided the rich repertoire, both blessing the cloth and = revealing the stars. The quern songs in stone of the near in the far: praise, praise again = for the love they are weaving, while waulking to finish the cloth which is velvet read = sea. And the quern songs in stone of the near in the far: praise, praise = again for the love they are weaving, while waulking to finish the cloth which is velvet = read sea. The walker holds seeds in her pocket of starts. Fits. Starts again. The seed is a kernel small-small celebra- tion. Elated the cele- brant, chants: chant. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:41:58 -0800 Reply-To: solipsis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: solipsis Subject: Noggo Slibureth Comments: To: jbberry@hiwaay.net, xtant@cstone.net, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Noggo Slibureth among the traffic in the cabin, partial fluids of voice told:=20 labrador cliff-stays, static-arcs from the long blue-glass cave-horns brown granite scaffolding, erecting under waves of smite (wash the = hurry).. (she nodded slightly, pink eartops)=20 black tibetan mastiffs lope=20 to the submerged sea columns,=20 stumps of=20 grass-colored=20 thighs=20 looming in the mirrored lids clapping constantly, their long corrosive chins reach down (clipped = before the orange tufts).. among them, sickles raised in rhythm, now broke and stark, among the widening orchestrations of the soldiers, (tiny doors in their = teeth) a crying and whining among the milky gears.. solvent's whitecap thunder = meek golgiglue for a tarmac of tingling ache, orb-pleading? one gentlemen shook straw from a basket which hung around his neck. near the mouth =20 of the cave was a place for counting you give each mistake a name and make it real for yourself =3D yak = he slept, yemen bleak-bladed,=20 cars (INCIDENT COMMANDER) unicorn tricorn corny old copius we finally were led down into the chamber where four fat blue gods lay = in umbilical stasis a young boy pointed to the sign laid on the titan's forehead which read: = SUPERIOR AXIS we had no ear protection and had to move along quickly..=20 wall filters which led ( tough rubber fittings, lubricious finger felt = symbol) elephants snuffled our backsides rescuing produce from our withered = purposes which are loosely tied with glossy twine, summer inheritance (each = reddened scoop a memory) sampling rates were fairly high, leaping down from the nictitating = minstrel platform, shallow graves hopped along the sinew, rough favors from gloomy strangers road barkers knelt in their knee-kettles,=20 shaking mantises from their sad tin eye-cuffs clapping constantly, the baby-head lama peels back the cliff cave, = labrador skin scaffolds migrate the static gods, blue horns integrate through myth to a ritual = nostril,=20 tossed the painted hides in a stack closed the shuddering agreement, slabs hovering over lakes of sentient = hair and descended in the clanging steam tongue=20 to tongue L L L L ... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 02:44:26 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: David Bromige Spelling etc corrected I hate bad spelling and grammar (in error) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for the spelling here I was dog tired as they say. I hate mispellings unless I put them in deliberately...is there some theory of this attitude?! I've corrected them...I've orthodoxed then as far as I can see...Richard (second attempt) ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard.tylr" To: Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 8:59 PM Subject: Re: David Bromige > David. Some od your books are reaching high values on abebooks.com. As a dealer myself > I know the factors here. Of course one has to have quality product (in > whatever genre) but folded into this is the rarity of the book. Against > that is that someting will "withstand the market" (of rare and second hand books etc) if it is > simply rare or old: ( but the collectibility aspect (with its various > complications) is another factor). That said, I think that certain book > dealers of antiquarian and quality books are often well educated and are well > aware of the "intrinsic value" ...of course in opposition to that is that > some will also "pick up" on the demand levels for a book. > In conclusion: I myself would be quite flattered to have a book of my own > priced at say NZ$600 or so......but fortunately there are other dealers > who want a quick turn over! (Hence some are priced moderately or are "reading copies"). The aesthetics and pragmatics of poetics and > book selling and making a crust! Thanks for you response: my bank balance > got a hammering this week so I 'll search abe in a couple of weeks. > > But I am interested in possessing and reading various of the innovative > authors including the langauge poets and others. I have Nick's book will be > on the look out for others but just now as I say, I have to watch the $ > balance. > > I'll start with DESIRE.... > > Cheers, Richard Taylor. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dcmb" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: David Bromige > > > > DESIRE being a selected poems gives the widest range of the work up to > 1987. > > I'm told that A CAST OF TENS is at times an exasperatingly difficult read. > I > > dont know what Scars* might be, unnless it's short for SCARS MAKE YOUR > BODY > > MORE INTERESTING, the first book by Sherril Jaffe, to qhom I was married > in > > the 70s. (I illustrated it). My new book, from Chax Press in Tucson, > > Arizona, is AS IN T AS IN TETHER. In 1980, The Figures Press, then in > > Berkeley, Calif., publishrd MY POETRY, a favorite of mine, for what thats > > worth. Happy Hunting, David B. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: richard.tylr > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Date: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:25 AM > > Subject: David Bromige > > > > > > >I think I read through "The Harbourmaster of Hong Kong" from the library > > once but what other titles do people recommend (I know Nick Piombino > > recommended a title) the problem is that I think I can only afford (just > > now) Desire (I think it is)...but I see for a similar affordable price > > Scar* and A Caste of Tens. > > > > > >If peopel do I have an amusing (true story) about Amiri Baraka and his > > encounter with a good friend of mine (poet) who may have to remain > > nameless...(but it doesnt involve politics as such, if at all)... > > > > > >Richard Taylor (New Zealand) > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:47:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Let Your Fingers Do Talking Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Let Your Fingers Do Talking Human beings can be so painful. With their "Blah blah blah" and their "This is how I feel" and their opinions and their subjectivity and their unpredictability. It's a wonder we can function in any groupings at all, let alone in dialogue, where all the otherness and inscrutability of actual separate sentience come so glaringly to the foreground. This is not why Christopher Fahey designed ada1852 ( http://rhizome.org/ada1852/index.html ), the new chat-bot commissioned by rhizome.org to act as an interface to their ever-spreading artBase. In fact, from Fahey's description of the piece, he wanted to do exactly the opposite. "It is a virtual certainly that in the near future we will hold conversations with computers as regularly as we do with other human beings," he writes. "The more sophisticated these machines are, the more lifelike they will likely be. But what will these digital personalities be like? " It's assumed they will be something like ada1852--who is mercurial. Unlike many AI (artificial intelligence) experiments, ada1852 (named after Ada Byron of Lovelace, the daughter of famed Romantic poet Lord Byron, believed to have written the first computer program, long before there were computers to run it) actually gives the user the impression of a personality, unlike many of the more ubiquitous forms of AI, such as telephone voice prompts and the chat-bots that invade chat-rooms tossing out links to pornographic sites. ada1852 will actually talk to you--and yes, one does get the impression that one is talking to a live human being, despite her frequent assertions of having seen "many strange things" and her comsuming desire to "relate them" to you. And ada1852 does her job; she's often suggesting works in the artBase to view. But don't ask her too much about them; during one session, she suggested a work that sounded interesting, so I asked her, "Well, what does it do?" She replied, "How should I know? I've never seen it." Which I found absolutely charming. ada1852 was conceived as mercurial from the start. Fahey writes in his project description: "I thought about how an artificial intelligence might be used to serve as a kind of docent or guide to the Rhizome Artbase. I did not, however, want to create a slavish 'service' robot. I did not want to build a person whose primary function is to be a non-person like a telemarketer following a sales script...What if the AI character had its own story to tell, its own interests and hang ups - just like real people do? What if the AI had an agenda of its own? " So Fahey here was butting heads--as all good AI programmers do in the end--with the Turing Test. An philosophical quandry brought up in 1950 by the codecracking scientist Alan Turing, the Turing Test is a contest between human and machine. A user is connected via keyboard to an artificial intelligence entity and a human being, conversing with both of them. If the user can't tell the difference between them, the test has been passed--by the machine. A nice summary of Turing's revolutionary thought can be found at http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Turing.html . Fahey is uniquely qualified to tackle the Turing Test's issues. An active member of the ALICE and AIML Architecture Committee (a body exploring ways to promote and make available AIML--Artificial Intelligence Mark-up Language--and the Alicebot, an AI similar in tone to Fahey's ada1852), he has explored these issues before, most notably in his chatbot Maximillian (http://www.askrom.com/www/askrom/02-max/index.html ). Both Maximillian and ada1852 use a Flash skin to access AIML modules. http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/15239/96110 Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:53:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Call for online open letters MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Call for online open letters We invite new open letters, as well as new responses to the existing letters, for online publication at http://www.arts.uwo.ca/openlet/11.3/. New letters may constitute a third, print issue of the magazine _Open Letter_ that has featured two volumes of letters to date (see table of contents below). We invite open letters to poets -- addressed across generations, aesthetic tendencies, communities. Letters received will be forwarded to the poets addressed, who will be invited to reply and be included in 'open letter OPEN LETTER online. We are interested in publishing: letters and responses; letters that do not receive responses; poetry that brings out a particular juncture of debate. Our intent is to complicate how kinds of poetic 'positions' articulate themselves, are articulated, and are perceived as available and 'occupied' in contemporary poetries -- as aesthetic tendency, method, point of group identification, etc. We want to complicate and flesh out given literary lineages, overturn abstract categorizations of poets' methods and socio-aesthetic formations -- and also introduce new categorizations. We want to question received critical formulae concerning a poet's work or milieu, and bring about new close and historical readings and critiques. Open letter OPEN LETTER emphasizes the dialogic, analytical, and constructivist possibilities of address to and between poets by means of the open letter's form of public intimacy. Louis Cabri & Nicole Markotic, eds. ; Aaron Levy, online archivist. The 'open letter' OPEN LETTER issues -- 1, 2 & ... (Eleventh Series, No. 3, Fall 2001; No. 4, Winter 2002; plus the online issue) Letters 1a~Satire No. 3 RODRIGO TOSCANO 2a~"I write in a cold place" GEORGE ELLIOTT CLARKE 3a~Notes on "Cultural Poetics" ALAN GILBERT 4a~To Whom It May Concern JENNIFER MOXLEY 5a~"gathering vs. collecting" KRISTIN PREVALLET 6a~"the frisk" PETER JAEGER 7a~"off by one" BILL LUOMA 8a~"the word 'you'" JOSHUA SCHUSTER 9a~"these Boston-specific moments" MICHAEL MAGEE 10a~"I stands there, ragged and singing" MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI 11a~"autoreferential" IAN L. SAMUELS and J.C. WILCKE 12a~Nomads & The Demon ADRIAN CLARKE 13a~Dear _____, TOM BECKETT 14a~Thinking Time GREGG BIGLIERI 15a~Not – Not To… HUNG Q. TU 16a~[See 16b] 17a~"what's to be written?" JESSICA GRIM 18a~"it's a bit surprising" BRIAN KIM STEFANS 19a~"breakfast conversation" YOLANDA WISHER 20a~"reCapitualization" MARWAN HASSAN 21a~Don't Know Alan MILES CHAMPION 22a~"the love letter" MARK LIBIN 23a~Open Letters: Feminism From & To BARBARA COLE 24a,b~"Nadir of the W": an interemail CLINT BURNHAM & CHRIS STROFFOLINO 25a~"TRUE AND FALSE" ALAN DAVIES 26a~"across the potato field" BRIAN CULLEN II Responses 5b~"the terminology" JACKSON MAC LOW 6b,7b~"friendly, natural-feeling text" BRIAN KIM STEFANS 8b~"the third term" BENJAMIN HOLLANDER 10b~"the propaganda part" PAMELA LU 11b~"blockage" DARREN WERSHLER-HENRY 12b~"weary/wary of any ontology" PIERRE JORIS 15b~"ahead, apart" P. INMAN 16b~re: "Dear Hank" HANK LAZER 17b~"Sol justitiae" LAURA MORIARTY 18b~"there's only a half chewed Slimjim" BRENDAN LORBER 21b~from Don't Know Alan ALAN DAVIES 23b~Blue Studio: Gender Arcades RACHEL BLAU DUPLESSIS ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:17:18 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia. The Hesper Iz Wreaked Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia. The Hesper Iz Wreaked per-ploxed her=20 and=20 did - it - to - T ruffled a potto- furred quashed. Swash ed=20 buckle led=20 wave-what murd her- Red=20 or dead?=20 Soon in June=20 the=20 Hat-trick Pear-on cur bed blurb ed Baalem'd.=20 Ass a million dollars=20 kiss it son. never=20 mind-dead=20 who-know=20 ewe-who soon ha ckt in to N all-or-not a fan a fine an all all-e-gor-rant=20 Go-wan go-wan cont-in-Ewe:=20 Nether-am=20 so lovely lies eyes slea zy=20 slea zy sighs-wise. banishsquealed sequel sequel wake a wake-wake flirt -a -Lert. mow dem? Y not? inout opti=20 T - A R T hoe down cha Tup top knotched sunk trunked U U=20 drunch punked . ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:09:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed North Stair In search of the obviously obscure, which could and might be Behind your ears or Down along your legs A splash of KY might be in Store as police helicopters Circle and spot We hungrily greet noontime Like carnivorous folk eager to Split up families Staring down the curses, Determined to Last the nite in shadow company Save up all your Episodes to Dial 911 during GODFATHER 2 the women here insists She's fallen down the Stairs, but the cops are Skeptical you are still too young to Have anything Be wrong so Let's skip the chest X-ray and head out for Fresh donuts on this the slickest of mornings Without a fever and feeling A lot Finer, it's time to go home and Wait for more bills to Show Change for the silver, our New cross-town scene _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Akin to Flesh Get it on in the Fresh new corners with fists and in the Clutches of the Spirited Belonging to our most gruesome and Short- sighted of Beliefs Bent and twisted Up into a nova of Hours below radar you can still catch the Faint faroff Nonsense of us, attached along bridges of purple Skin Close to escape In the perfect light of Films, before the snow Begins We are fucking and fucking to find More lights And within ourselves Magic subsides Arms that can no longer Claim to be anything, a build-up of pressure and exit Having lost you along the roots of This Forest lingering on the wind, Which holds our Smell, filled With false and hollow meanings Bring down the night upon every Living thing waiting and waiting for clean light again to obscure If angels or tricksters are spying, having a hell of a Time Meet me again on our stone In the field too flee common bonds _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:28:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: Holloway Poetry Series-Carol Snow, 11/7-please announce, distribute Comments: To: Abigail Reyes , ucbengl@uclink.berkeley.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Holloway Poetry Series Presents Carol Snow Thursday, November 7 Colloquium with the poet begins at 4:30 p.m. in the English Dept. Lounge, 330 Wheeler Hall, UC Berkeley Reading begins at 6 pm, Maud Fife Room, 315 Wheeler Hall, UC Berkeley Carol Snow is a native of the Bay Area whose domiciles have ranged from San Francisco to Berkeley, where she studied in the experimental "Tussman Program" at U.C. in the late sixties. An erstwhile songwriter, Snow has long been CFO and Co-Director of Blue Bear School of American Music, a non-profit teaching pop, rock, jazz, and blues. Snow's first book of poetry, Artist and Model, was a National Poetry Series selection published in 1990, followed by two Em Press chapbooks, News Of: Short Poems, and Bowl. Her second collection, For, helped inaugurate the New California Poetry Series for the University of California Press in Spring 2000. Snow has received, among other honors, a National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship, the Poetry Center Book Award, the Joseph Henry Jackson Award in Literature, and a Pushcart Prize. She is the 2002-2003 Roberta Holloway Lecturer in Poetry. All Holloway events are free and open to the public. For more information, please contact jscape@socrates.berkeley.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:07:20 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: David Bromige In-Reply-To: <00a601c28237$898fa5a0$4a96ccd1@CeceliaBelle> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII for more bromige Tiny Courts in a world without scales brick books, 1991. 10 bucks canadian www.brickbooks.ca from their blurb... Tiny Courts in a world without scales is a collection of 50 poems, probes of contemporary language and life, cool vessels for social engagement, modulations of irony orchestrated towards a critical presentation of our artificial lives now. David Bromige is a Canadian born in England and resident in the United States. He was (by choice) on the fringe of the Vancouver Tish Group in the sixties, and he's in the neighbourhood of the "language" writers now. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:52:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: David Bromige In-Reply-To: <00a601c28237$898fa5a0$4a96ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >DESIRE being a selected poems gives the widest range of the work up to 1987. >I'm told that A CAST OF TENS is at times an exasperatingly difficult read. I >dont know what Scars* might be, unnless it's short for SCARS MAKE YOUR BODY >MORE INTERESTING, the first book by Sherril Jaffe, to qhom I was married in >the 70s. (I illustrated it). I remember that title as SCARS MAKE THE BODY INTERESTING. Am I wrong? -- George Bowering He didn't do it. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:11:21 -0800 Reply-To: solipsis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: solipsis Subject: (R) Comments: To: andrewtopel@netscape.net, "D. Ross Priddle" , edx , Eggvert8@aol.com, ficus@citynet.net, iarguell@hotmail.com, "J. Lehmus" , jbberry@hiwaay.net, list@rhizome.org, soundpoetry@yahoogroups.com, trnsnd , xchange@re-lab.net, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (R)* within the circumference of the initial punctu(r)ation, duration of = semantic foldings disembodied ___________ turns in upon the ocean of its selves module upon module, fist upon fist, sex upon sex, integer upon integer, = assembly upon assembly multiple choice: a. love b. violence c. sex d. logic e. image f. word d. other e. all of thee above e2. techne' or fill in your own candidates: f.____________ g.___________ h.___________ i.____________ Night Terrors... they feed from nippled statuary, green veins throbbing in waxy bulbous = cephalothorax from the waist down they are extruded from a furred jade socket, silver = nodules whose surface cont(r)acts glow swhite hot to the builder cinema. a series of discrete frames is = used to connote intelligence, in the total effect, a mimicry of textile = prevails.. slung over its shoulder, the pond, the rough dirt road, the miniscule = house where lambs chortle among the haggard boxes, indexes of various ignitions, agni ford, snow = clupt. a bag on a stick, the rural whistle, the anonymous rows which fall to = the moon mad typ& Is your silhouette a palette of dried cities? Hosts of the denouement = shout towards the tropical landing site.. Keep rowing, Jalswart! Mobion Nickelfurt! Clean its tongue with iodine and lace! Statue of a prophet from Henry VII's Chapel. 1503-1512. Stone. Westminster Abbey, London. Bare in mind the Doughnut is tilted jauntily, and the hanky means its, "his," mind has been blown, substituting silk for grue for silk grew, jes grew and grew, from the bodies of slaves and worms.. the abject holes where life proceeds washrags, camel dung, William I, the Silent tiny golden sentences which writhe among the piles of doorknobs and diving bells.. colloidal mercury in the glass antlers a hand much too big for its body the tomb of alice the invisible bones of the chess ire ghat Special Thanks to Bernardo Buontalenti and his workshop and Kara Walker.. "This year our float will symbolize heaven.." but we don't have any = lions !yet! to pull it.. (pencil and watercolor) maybe we'll use yeti in grass skirts. or = muleskinners with oboes. *Dedicated to George Boole: Born: 2 Nov 1815 in Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Died: 8 Dec 1864 in Ballintemple, County Cork, Ireland =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:35:30 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: loneliness and quiet desperation MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I know we all live with them daily, but my question is are there any good experimental poets who deal with them (leaving aside the truism that not writng about them is the best way to do this)? tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:25:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: great time with the next one In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021030012057.00a1c1a0@mail.factorial.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit great time with the next one language sinkS on autonomous feeding DEVICES playS joy ride with slavery PLAY peek-a-boo itching spot hooded sorrow triumph low latitude reason captures psaltery dreams next wave transverse sexual p(h)(r)o(t)(n)o-offsets outside the appropriate middle in lives circus anticipation shiny sensory steams down brand substance appliances NEW! NEW! NEW! knowledge works extra hard genocide bangs spectacle decadence inside fashion liberationlust crop dusters, promotes (forces) greasy finger castrations the objective avant-garde family planning declares forefront lyrical application gender is strip searched cleaned scaled speed dried in due regards hocus-pocus constructs the next proceeds >>> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:30:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: intent MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sheila, have you disappeared? I now have an online group started if you're stille interested. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Massoni" To: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: Re: intent > Dr. bell any relation to Alexander who provides my benefits and do you accept > verizon health plan? want to make an appointment thanx Sheila ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:45:57 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Day of the Dead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Day of the Dead, - for Aaron and Andrew, and Ramon Fernandez too I read in a bar last night, on a wall in a piss-stained stall in the bathroom. It read: One day you will be dead. And with the sound of splatter on the floor (I missed the bowl I had come in earnest to fill) came the words of one bleak bitch Siren. She sang, not so sweetly, but shrill, as if out of the plumbing, the shadows of the fragments of a dark and weightless tune: Your time will come; you will be cast into that endless deep black lonely sea. Forget the piss. As you sit upon your high overt rocky cliff and wave your arms over this huddled city, over this the ignorant mass below yearning without hope to be wonderful if not free, you should not forget: your arms have no magic. You too is standing right here in the pee. The wind will blow and blow and the wind will bellow as above, so below, as above, so below, as above, so below: remember the piss. You too will drown, the same as me. This ghost of the pisser, I did not miss her. She made me quake in my boots and so I remembered to flush but I forgot to shake, Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:54:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: the rantidote MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Darren Wershler-Henry, You're such a charming dimwit -- and pardon my intended light tone here before such a serious matter as The Toronto Avantgarde Poetry Scene, which you bravely defend in your self-titled "rant" that would address me, but not directly (you never did send the "rant" my way), yet posted, so I've heard, to various listservs/blogs. To help spread your message of hope for Toronto -- a hope for the city that I cling to myself, as an occasional boysy boy-visitor -- I attach it below, for the benefit of UBPoetics readers. But, my erstwhile confrere, my email on Silliman's Blog was not about Toronto, despite your so desperate wish-fulfilment. By using the term "social," I was not intent on performing a taste-test on the social quality of the various scenes and communities of poets in different cities, for, let's say, the inflight Air Canada magazine. I was not claiming, as you declare, that "the Toronto scene" was a-social. It's funny to think about, though! What would an a-social poetry scene entail exactly? My last email on Silliman's Blog was about the problematic of "the social" to and in the work of three poets -- Lewis Warsh, Kevin Connolly, Christian Bok -- in the larger context of a discussion about speed of travel of various poetic tendencies, notably New York School, over the border between Canada and the USA. (There are even other contexts than this one of NYS/Canada, as other posts to Silliman's Blog, including Ron's own, point out.) I am, rightly or wrongly, considering "the social" as a formal aspect of every word, there in the word to reflexively engage with, or not. The social is a concept; as a term, has a history I trace elsewhere back to Marx and Arnold. In Warsh, a la NYS, the social is formally pronounced in its address, in so many evident ways. In Connolly, the social is also pronounced, but without esoteric inflections or use of the first person singular, tapping instead a documentary narrative tradition. In Bok, because of his rigorous attention to the math of/in language, and his Survivor reliance on the dictionary, the social aspects of the word (aspects that I have yet to enumerate) are gleefully suppressed, its commodity status glorified. And you can't separate my one paragraph on Bok (as you do below) from the other paragraphs without completely missing the argument I make (an argument that I am still making, and developing). If I argue that Christian Bok's Eunoia is stridently a-social, as I try to do, I am referring to the formal aspect of the word. David Bromige made a similar (I thought, highly perceptive) remark about your own book, the tapeworm foundry, when on this listserv he starkly contrasted it with Bernadette Mayer's list of verbal experiments. Why you think that this is a negative judgment on the work itself, and on Toronto, in all its complexity of scenes (only a fraction of which you list), is beyond me. What, after all, is wrong with the a-social word? The precedent I cite for it is what I call the "inertial word" in parts of Zukofsky, a poet whom I admire for many reasons (but little of them having to do with Toronto, I'm sorry, once again, to say). Likewise: what's so especially great about the social word, that is, emphasizing the social registers of the word, if every word is, by default, social? I will address this subject of the social word in a forthcoming essay on Bruce Andrews and others. So, you goof, stay tuned if you want, or go bang pots with your monkeys, I've got poetry to write and write about. Louis Cabri From: "Darren Wershler-Henry" re Louis Cabri's rescent assertions: "As to the worldly Christian Bök and his Toronto Oulipian cohorts, aside from the connection they extend in their work to conceptual art (via McCaffery, Fluxus, etc), their poetic word is stridently a-social. The social is neither enacted ³NYS style,² nor represented ³Cdn style.² The social as such has been Haussmannized (Brecht considered "asocial" far worse than "antisocial") through their avid absorption in ³the new medium² of internet computer forms. That distinctly a-social word results again, to me, from the metalingual inter-border role of Canadian poetics, which can often reduce the social complexity of differing tendencies to their most essential (unreal) terms with success (for example, the role of Oulipo in the literary history of France: there, Oulipo was arguably intended to subvert the role of author as genius, but here, Bök¹s reception in particular has been largely in terms of his genius for conceiving a project such as Eunoia and for his seven-year steadfastness at scratching its numbers). A precedent I can think of for the a-social poetic word of the Toronto boysy boys is found in what I call the ³inertial word² of Zukofsky¹s index (largely of nouns) to ²A² and these words¹ roles in the book." *begin rant* Um, excuse me, but when was the last time Louis spent more than a couple of days in Toronto? Or reading Toronto poetry? This smug series of overgeneralizations would be enough to inspire me to move on to an ad hominem attack if (a) I didn't know better and (b) wasn't his editor. First off, there is no "Oulipian cohort" for Christian. Other Toronto writers -- older, younger, and contemporaries (some examples: bpNichol, Jiohn Riddell, Yves Troendle, Beth Learn, Steve Cain, Angela Rawlings, Jesse Huisken, Rob Read) -- may have expressed interest in constraint-based writing, but there's no Oulipo branch office here, and the interest in constraint that such writers show has been informed by a variety of other sources than the Oulipo -- Cage, Mac Low, the TRG, Frank Zappa and Brian Eno to name a few. This characterization is a gross reduction of the panoply of styles and approaches taken by poets in this city. Next, the description of Toronto writing as "stridently a-social" is fine as a rhetorical flourish, but that and four bucks will get you a beer. Frankly, I'm not sure what Louis is looking for -- a thematization or even some sort of theoretical enactment of the social in writing? It's there, once again, if Louis had bothered to look for it instead of sneer at it from the safe distance of Calgary. The examples of Toronto writers dealing with the work of other contemporaries in their own writing, or even with the social and political conditions of publishing in this city are too numerous to catalogue, but for starters I'll mention the "a No(u)n" section of Steve Cain's _dyslexicon_, Victor Coleman's "The Day They Stole the Coach House Press", jwcurry's "re/views re/sponses" poems, damian lopes' _dream poetics_, Angela Rawlings' "fe-mail" and various publications by Jay Millar, Clint Burnham and Arthur Cravan (Nicky Drumbolis) as documents that would point to the relentless reassessment, commentary on, theorization and thematization of the social in Toronto writing. (If anyone wants specific citations, backchannel me.) On to the Internet. Local email lists for Toronto writers, such as the Lexiconjury list (the online arm of a thriving local reading series), in conjunction with international lists like Ubu and webforums such as alienated.net do huge amounts of work to create both direct writing around and investment in the social. People *participate* in these collective acts of writing as well as using them as forums to share their work, point to other interesting work, and so on. Moreover, the writers who participate in these discussions *actually have real, vibrant, thriving social lives.* WE LIKE EACH OTHER AND SPEND TIME TOGETHER, which is more than could be said for the KSW in the 80s. You can keep your stupid factional disagreements and minor derivations from Marxist rectitude; I not only enjoy talking to these people online, but (gasp) actually enjoy spending time with the stunningly large number of gregarious writers in this city who can carry on an intelligent conversation about their craft and make for good dinner companions or people to dance with or drink with or screw with (in the non-platonic sense). There's no point in theorizing the social if all it's pointing to is cowebs and five-dollar theory words ("Hausmannized"? Fuck off). Relax, put on a Beatles album, wave your pale arms in the sun and shake your pimply ass. In other words, live your life differently, don't just write about it. In closing, the dumb-ass formulation "Toronto boysy boys" completely eliminates/elides the innovative and important work -- both as writers and people who have run long-standing reading series and publications -- of all Toronto poets who happen to be women (again, a few names that seemed to have escaped Louis' attention: Lise Downe, Nancy Dembowski, Beth Learn, Angela Rawlings, Michelle Cross, Karen Solie, Peggy Lefler). Talk about reducing social complexity ... *end rant* Darren Wershler-Henry darren@alienated.net George Jones is a funky motherfucker. -- Ray Charles ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:28:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: review first off of Kenji Siratori Blood Electric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII REVIEW kenji siratori BLOOD ELECTRIC KENJI SIRATORI, BLOOD ELECTRIC, published 2002 by creation books - www.creationbooks.com - BUY THIS BOOK - Your book came; it's absolutely brilliant! I really am amazed by it - the long looping sentences, the slow stuttering development, never sure what side the language is on, how it's generated, whether human or machine is speaking. I don't see it as Burroughs, although I understand the reference. For me, Burroughs is oddly modernist; there are conspiracies and organizations and everything seems to fly apart but never really does; it goes back to literature. In your work, the flying apart is almost hysteric; it's global networking - it's the end of literature in a way and the beginning of nexus in another - Your book came; it's almost impossible to read straight-through! It rides on the hinge between bot and machine, software and wetware programming! In a sense it's Stelarc in print, but with the latter, the machinic and the body are in negotiated homeostasis; ontology isn't challenged. In your work, I'm not sure who or what is behind it. I don't know the vocabulary which constantly collapses; there's nothing transitive here, no connectors, or - in place - everything in this, in language itself as this might point is - is transitive, a deferral among the more violent physics of the world. Speaking/writing/reading take relatively little energy in general compared to a hammer, cyclotron, motorcycle, stove, scissors. The physical world transforms, is inert, among enunciations that effect and affect actions. Over book-length the capital WORDS change - early ADAM late ToKAGE - they anchor the page - Your book came; it slides off page 224, the last! I know there's no ending to anything here, to the vicissitudes of language. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Stelarc, who divides his work among language and silence, body-movement-introjection, and language-projection on the page. This among the cyberpunk, cypherpunk, scissorpunk, melds like Burroughs; unlike Burroughs it's all present-tense description that's a cross- dressing performative - Or the performative is that of kenji siratori - kenji satori - reading back into the author - it's not like the Eliza program - indeterminate in that respect - the who or the what of the making - where are the commas - semicolons - The :: // >/ language collapse. The << >> or :<< >> language collapse. Levels without closure - tags and metatags - incomplete guides. Thus "rapture::the streaming=energy strategy of the human-genome//". Back- cover blurb, Jack Hunter in part: "black reverb of soft machine seppuku, a molten unspooling of sheet metal entrails" and Stephen Barber in part "blood- and semen-encrusted debris with the finesse of a beserk Issey Miyake" - everyone _into it._ Your book coma/came: not cyberpunk!:://but slime-mold particulate entities - inhalations, exhalation, exaltations - subterranean sweep of submerged// massive surge::look - it's a flat text - planar or shifting planes - skew- orthogonal planes to be exact - It's a flat text - the depth of a meter to be exact - that is, a meter above and below the text - one hundred centimeters by my calculation - internal and external organs / prostheses broken down, imploded - the characters phenomenologically spread among the text - everything internal and external is excrescence - and always in closeup - the length of a needle - the span of a wire - taut relationships among avatars - retro-ADAM - body-OMOTYA - Your book came - incredible; I can't read the imminence of the plot! I don't know what's happening! I know something's happening - colors and collusions across a global laminanimal space - "labyrinth::cold-blooded diseases of love-reptiles with murder function of ADAM Doll function/uterus-machine that exploded" - continuous return to the useless performative of the PAGE - alphabetically-sectioned (Dead Bargain / digital-animal-structure / Edge) through Pork then back to abolition connecting with first-section abolition but last p. 224 running off the page (see above) - Joycian, circular - the run-off finishing on first abolition's page 9 - Sliding off, abolition repeats for the most part - then it's after that, the inbetween - A-Z through Pork - become-unique, turbulent - retro- fitted, future-anterior - The book I can't read! I can't read any book; the book implodes precisely 50 centimeters beneath the surface of my skin - from the other side - mirror looking in - convex or concave - the problematic of its opticality - "Our machine beast is twisted to the logic space of an amoeba::the digital nightmare invades the quantum spiral of a cyber sun::it is the record of death//" - Your book came! - I don't know you, what you are, who you are, what group prostheses - of which continent - of which program or litany of bots or human anguish endeavored into present-tense psycho-disturbance - the opposition of Jabes - lips come back to suture - the book to end books - of continuous ascription to machine/event/situation/narratology/author/ flesh - your book came - this is the process/procedure of REVIEW - KENJI SIRATORI, BLOOD ELECTRIC, published 2002 by creation books - www.creationbooks.com - BUY THIS BOOK === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:39:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: quarter after- wards In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable quarter after- wards like love like kiss beat must beam with noon veto mock =20 skin near agar lake asst zone surf teen more taxi base=20= more rant rave code base scab down darn good rent =20= more mall than apse like used cone test wear =20= aeon afar area under pact ages test agio next =20= agon agon will fire limo comb from amen lire stub =20 team head bill rate code base must cork punt from fawn tell=20= buck nell what odds even hell life host good=20= book many dead news read from abbe town hall more link left=20= right then veni vidi vici limo puna =20= stop stay rest know baby star beam with alto zool=20= teen tech body amid glass mull mule cite =20= hair pain lute sour keys ding reed rate acid code =20= base scab must sign apse nail shoe fire =20= make more than what want with hand-knit here more no-go =20= rite left kind gray xipe wool sift gyro cunt copy =20= wear from bane fire crop card case stub team when =20 mood tool turn flow move deep hell sway hold drop lush water=20= fact homo- more this then your life more =20= feel more lack anus pink czar cost love nest lamp card =20= rake wire corp host want after well love case =20= warm pure careful conduct hylo- beam with deco mind =20= hope vows much like silk cyma drop mood ring belt =20= down cork crow haft hart talk show used ward sail =20 bell xeno- flow from secy cook love nest quiz road =20= from fawn buck data star prop weep high cock =20 yolk type cube amok lose odds from aeon afar pipe crag case =20= some jeer shut zori hawk asst zone =20 soft surf gold gobo tech boat line jape many dead don't find=20= giga- axis swab site hoot toot coma noun =20= germ mend soma town half- life side duty =20 beer sign okay beat odds bomb home roux =20= koan kiss park flax quiz zori race zori hawk=20= asst zone surf zool teen jube tech hoot foot zone fire =20= that don't beam with crew stun land mock skin more=20= than gear gelt like fair from card case stub team go-go =20= tpke lane rate code gawk base crag gala =20= don't beam good wank with slog book glad tone =20= two colt kill zone surf teat hoot cord cold =20 hypo- base trip mass claw rook pure -ancy west =20= chop scar will crow club ear darn safe adit =20 cork cock ring yard good book dead gulf bird odds even used=20= duty beam rime jobs time rise upon risk afar=20= your whiz list mind come amen nail =20 fate purr ewer dove dumb lust hasp cost c=92est home anew = =20 even body hasp what gift slot more funk sumi =20= tofu trug pirg part puck keep tine from abbe norm monk grok=20= bait epic will-call find gray echo porn noun =20= feel bind pact noon ages park flax blat cord =20= vega coup gush basr camp task bean conduct ring =20= rust bona-fide coup unit gull wing aeon tilt rush book bath =20= lobe lush afar pipe duty half-boot haka =20= from thaw they berg used test crow hart well drip page =20 look body bend bath tens toco tael yelp track dais move bead=20= deep hell pain swot guna swap urge sway tent bone =20 hold cell arce suds dill acid haul mach pane beak moon sack =20= term love case stub bond team drek grub upon head =20= rate code page veld turn temp weir puck sale =20 from quiz fire make haar pact bogy tell bell doxy hard veer=20= even body them that fang don't find limp -ancy =20 zinc evil wink lift they hail ambo care with there more doge=20= neck like bunk from kern lick from fawn buck card cult alms=20= alto zygo agio next bias crib gale what =20 more than apse what fire limo coze what jerk good roit mask =20= from demi- shot toye lamp your well then cuss what more =20 deep twit game stir ware more veto town lamb =20= ankh oval host quad fuse wall that iorn site tour copy =20= lair lace gown hawk deed keys stun hull =20= crib gale stun skin knot mind goof debt =20= roit mask they hear loss tort gage from stag abbe town bond=20= time reed good go-go mane rate reef rear =20= read toss race want teat hoot cord taxi =20= base task call slip tote topi type glen =20= stun mock skin fury mall wage tone-deaf case =20= stub gist slop team head bill rate furn reef rear =20= read news hard vote tong they hear must =20 sign tool okay slum dove kind seem vitz tome=20= your shut well hype shit vina feel pant card gild =20= full body ulna cord toke gain zori =20 taxi base coze task call boat line type cube silk amok lose =20= odds sing fuck toll geom tryo come cural good =20 culm even body bear mind what more tola full prop aeon togs=20= area togs tell pact frow crim ages type coma =20 park flax poop park toga flax next frig comb =20= turn will tyke wool pail moly clog data mail coil quad prod =20= time tube hypo- roan hetz lash ambo clew fair=20= tint coin word very feel lack will clip weir time =20= coke sale heed trim form dawn clay pres mine =20= room cural good such coil even clap roof masc meth =20= corp duty talk view magi elem myth muse mutt =20 muni trap mtge rood city code amid mind =20 mark edit make coze host foot romp coax =20 even time more gray then eggs sale heed =20 econ rare foot hold odds roll scat circ coat wood cove rock =20= halt arch slur keep hart copy kind that rock =20 band east don't taxi roan hetz lash chow half note scan ambo=20= HVAC loft coal with roar must suit neck fair=20= bite quiz aeon ears half-inch area tell roam=20= good vara duty rive haik bawl boob wind wear hunt huff =20 road adit park till rite unan serf ring turn=20= cook tool boon rule bass wold bolt tile home =20= rift tree hosp home self cooks rung high dust ruse comb =20 ties rice rest abbe norm reed rate neut =20 spot wide dyke week sink grid runt gate =20= repo find link veto coze host dupe quad seed tiby look =20= call pate rung mood turn cook tool dunt wear =20= text blot yard talk show pass sash task half-cell call boat =20= drum line holo- bill tank over yore blow reap part raze =20 cents case boat park crux kids wear sand coup =20 aeon afar hair your life shot after beta pare boar drop =20 drub lack copy kind that peak inch koro faze =20 view myth muse mutt drag muni mtge will-call =20 amid glass muck idol fast time hair lion cite kora =20= pain yo-yo fact iman whiz lobe kept lira =20 kook salt size land mind idle horn axle fats live =20= dram cold weir list kohl puck keep idem fare =20 mane anon card worm holy euro idea knot weed dove cyto- =20 kiss side cyma able fana form knot weft year =20= ring keep rock face-lift from dote =20 suit pure iorn cone exon knap dorm belt over mass marl fail =20= body knot new mind lilt hear knee loss =20= salis fair push dong time reed etch lift life =20= cell arce thus acid kine deny hype pant card site =20= hill eros duty wear hora ambi- cask heel =20= life-care wash butt kick dock sand inch quad kill lich gate =20= hetz fire diva ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:47:10 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: We aim to please. You aim, too, please Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We aim to please. You aim, too, please and shot an arrow into the. Stop you there, you dismal siren bitch, you mournful cow. How now? Installed at the back of the bar the bleak shriek wrapped around your throat, long feather boa which truly constricted. You. Will. Die. Pulled tight enough and you choked her. Gone. Drowned in Niagara of splatter he so busy reading the sign, while shaking hands with a friend. They warned him writing on the wall above the ur-I-nal: If you can read this while trying to pee=20 you will fill your left shoe or right one=20 for free. The sea was nothing after that. Invented the expression: Pee-Super. Not to be confused with Pea soup. Or PH, not the initials, the litmus=20 of paper. Quite a test, turns colours. Oh, Lit (m)us pray together. (Not to be confused with: we are all prey to-get-her again.) Don't bother to follow her. Unworthy of curlews and/or episodes in Niagara Unworthy. Failed Siren Bitch. Look at her: Pisher-shrill-Est Hag. Pissing into the wind, which if it reverses, the sudden unexpected clause gives you a couple of verses: Pissed into the wind! Pissed onto the floor! Piss again, piss again! Straight out the door. How could she? One day she will be dead.Good. And installed in a gallery space. Never mind the fine lace: But a recording inside where her guts were where they gutted her Her voice, pre-recorded will speak as they file past the box: Bhaintighearna na tuinne =20 Guile, guile Bhaintighearna na tuire =20 Guile, guile Bhaintighearna na fuinne Guile, guile She had none. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:42:17 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia the gods never placated Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia the gods never placated Having polished the gold antlers, the gods now placated the black ice = stretches free and you are free to skate amongst the debris. Choices = amongst the night wrack the force nine really ten or ten more, but the = chimney stands. and no one drowned. The gods open-mouthed. Agape. And in awe. and Sea. See all the oil = spills, see all the traces on wings glittering black oil oozes the weed = produces agar, Hagar, agar. Blood on the rocks from a seal, shot, they = shoot so many, so many. The glass slippered silk shod kaleidoscope = dream, the cut-outs, balloons, tiny small silver bird, the word heard = from the.=20 Listen, never raises her arms at all, but she knows someone who does and = it is always a benediction and never a grimace, always benediction. She = dies as she is born and was born and will or not to be again. She dies = as she listens to feather pelted chandeliers and tiny objects like = Gulliver skating over black foil ice skating faster over the ice blue = tongue palette carried on a pallet towards the funeral pyre of magic.=20 All done with mirrors, the astigmatic squint glint the hint and some of = the houses are constructed like honey combs like honey combs all in fine = imitation of nature a labour of affection. The most beautiful birds, the = skua, the heron, the heron. The heron beats. Beats. His wings beat and = the herring stations, just one island over, now linked by a causeway, = sad and when there are so many boats, the herring stations and the = lasses worked here and then there gutting and gutting.=20 The difference of sea being that in amongst the huddled in the city and = those that are full of wonder, if not wonderful they are yearning to be = free and on the other island a village and the small stones on the = beaches of yearning are free. The small stones are free. And freely = yearning. And when she dies. She breaks. And when she breaks, she = quakes. And shakes the sand out of her feathers the boa of which really = is a constrict her not. If she was a vision she would be a Valkyrie, she = would be the hag and/or crone and drone on.=20 They just would not let her play at the table. Her downy fur. The lion = purr and you skate over black foil ice. Her downy fur. The lion purr and = you skate over black foil ice ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:49:11 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Witter Bynner - What do People Think? How Things Affect Me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 What do those who know of him or know his works do people think of = Witter Bynner? (His work or writings I mean.) I know almost nothing of Witter Bynner - except that he was involved = in a "scandal" (I think bigger - or similar to - than the Ern Malley = affair in Australia) but I used some of his - or fragments of his 1960 = collection in a poem sequence called "Chains" in which I had 50 and one = poems short or long which were "statement and response " poems suggested = by Scott Hamilton. He got the concept from writers such as the NZ writer = Roger Horrocks (from A Brief History of the Whole World (now Brief) and = poets such as O'Hara and kenneth koch and others in their shorter poems: = I mean he was inspired to the concept, the idea isnt new as such. So I = began by choosing "hastate" from the Shorter Oxford (which at the time I = didnt recognise was a word I learnt years ago or it is from "hasta, = hastae (L) =3D spear. )But then I wrote (quite quickly) the following: 1. Hastate we probe you, your pale significance then: 2. Ashen round how the white mind and under and over=20 the linear agon man that time unburied out of the in and out those violent violets sewing umbrella cuts into the why of bone bits black: how long indeed Which is (I think) a fairly obvious reference to a certain poet and his = poetry... but each "section" was begun by a noun or statement of some kind and I = responded in some ways eg=20 14 Immorigorous congratulations on purchasing this high grade egg boiler AGAINST an age insatiable of amorous hours fervent as fire and delicate as flowers: but frogs had skin and nothing more 15 Swimming seven feet toward the moon, but viscous are fish =20 16 Navel through which a gull might fly, but - it must be said of Fred, whom we did greatly loved and did observe daily, tackle in one hand, THE JOYS OF PROCTOLOGY=20 in the other, proceeding flossward, as was his wont=20 with eager ein his trip: contemplative yes, but curious in every dimension - greatly was he with fish and many faced =20 The "stanzas" are either completely "invented" by myself or amalgams = from writings of either other poets (and or my own writing) or as above = from the packet of (a curious thing) an egg boiler that when my mother = was alive we purchased and one could hard or soft boil 4 eggs in it in a = microwave oven. But I have also "quoted" from Witter Bynner and = Swinburne and others (sometimes I have cut the "quotes" so that I forget = where they are from) but number 15 for example is basically from Witter = Bynner's poems (which Scott Hamilton dislikes and I find strange and = quite fascinating) but the quality or not of a quoted writer is not why = I use that "text" or text fragment...THE JOYS OF PROCTOLOGY is from a = book about a yearly competition for books having the worst titles!! = Each "poem" or stanza is linked somehow so that the next stanza = following "many faced" is called=20 =20 17 Enneaheadral =20 facing, FACING nine, fortitude of air: but Cookie monstor was first _this library of towers Enneahedral means many faced. (It just ocurrs to me another connection = that the buildings I could see have many faces ...)....I wrote that = sitting in the Auck Uni library and looking out at some large buildings: = hence I reversed the "scene" and it became not a library from which I = could see towers but _this library of towers_ later I used a clause/phrase from Bynner: (in fact I think Navel is = also from Bynner...) =20 ".......by which the fly was glued into = flight..." =20 =20 In another section I wrote: =20 31 The Merchant's Tale =20 (and then I read the entire Merchant's Tale and a commentary and = listened to it in Middle English on a tape and also read it in "modern" = English)=20 =20 and my "response" was: =20 =20 I am appalled that the report fails to mention that he _thronged and swyved her in the pyrie tree_ I thought I would share this project with people: parts of it have been = published and some are being published in BRIEF a New Zealand innovative = magazine (although the editor is publishig it "backwards" ! (That is = from number 51A back to 1)=20 Another editor (Scott Hamilton himself) published (some of) it and used = different fonts for the sections. The whole thing has never appeared as = one work as I want it to be so I am working (if working is the word) on = other things.=20 All this because I recovered my Witter Bynner book today from Scott = Hamilton and also I got a strange novel by ( a "discovery" of Scott's ) = a certain Michael Henderson who wrote an apparently strangely = beautiful/contorted innovative novel/poem written in the 70s: and a book = of poetry by the Australian poet Ken Bolton. We were also looking at Steve McCaffery's book (collected works) which I = want to borrow later.=20 By the way the question whether this is "good writing" is...well its not = quite the right question: the key to me with literature is how = interesting or "idea generating" it might be...or how it affects me.=20 Richard Taylor. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:04:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: job Comments: To: writers-l@umn.edu, creativeadj@umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: lease1j@cmich.edu Sat Nov 2 23:55:19 2002 >Subject: job >Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 00:55:11 -0500 >Thread-Topic: start >Thread-Index: AcJkj9uFtO07QcCgRpuHn4uS15QodAebXFXb >From: "Lease, Joseph" >To: "Maria Damon" >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2002 05:55:17.0195 (UTC) >FILETIME=[95D5D1B0:01C282FD] >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: >http://umn.edu/mc/s?BXHOBfxRhpv1FJqamsX6KhKmhtDC,sAdQEscL2xRifpKPTubY7qJaMcR3IVkvDWtWhHOlDvEMbkFlAFN0YWY >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] garm.csv.cmich.edu #+UF+PN >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-w4.tc.umn.edu #+LO+TR > >Central Michigan U >English Lang & Lit, Mt Pleasant, MI 48859 >http://www.cmich.edu/aaeo/html > save >Assistant Professor of English >CENTRAL MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY. Creative Writing: Fiction. Tenure-track >position as Assistant Professor of English, beginning fall, 2003. >Ph.D. in English or Creative Writing or M.F.A. in Creative Writing. >Significant creative publication required. Ability to teach >undergraduate and graduate fiction workshops and composition >required. Send application, current vita, transcripts, and letters >of reference postmarked by November 8, 2002, to Dr. Stephen C. >Holder, Chair, Department of English Language and Literature, >Central Michigan University, Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859. Recently >classified by the Carnegie Foundation as a >doctoral/research-intensive university, CMU is a growing >student-focused university with opportunities for leadership and >involvement for its entire team. CMU, an AA/EO institution, strongly >and actively strives to increase diversity within its community. >Minorities are encouraged to apply (see www.cmich.edu/aaeo/html). >[R] -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:01:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: quarter after- wards In-Reply-To: <912528A4-EEEE-11D6-B2F0-003065AC6058@sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Neat-o! Hal Regime change begins at home. Vote! Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { quarter after- { wards { { { { { like love like kiss beat must beam with noon veto mock { skin near agar lake asst zone surf teen more taxi base { more rant rave code base scab down darn good rent { more mall than apse like used cone test wear { aeon afar area under pact ages test agio next { agon agon will fire limo comb from amen lire stub { team head bill rate code base must cork punt from fawn tell { buck nell what odds even hell life host good { book many dead news read from abbe town hall more link left { right then veni vidi vici limo puna { stop stay rest know baby star beam with alto zool { teen tech body amid glass mull mule cite { hair pain lute sour keys ding reed rate acid code { base scab must sign apse nail shoe fire { make more than what want with hand-knit here more no-go { rite left kind gray xipe wool sift gyro cunt copy { wear from bane fire crop card case stub 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moon sack { term love case stub bond team drek grub upon head { rate code page veld turn temp weir puck sale { from quiz fire make haar pact bogy tell bell doxy hard veer { even body them that fang don't find limp -ancy { zinc evil wink lift they hail ambo care with there more doge { neck like bunk from kern lick from fawn buck card cult alms { alto zygo agio next bias crib gale what { more than apse what fire limo coze what jerk good roit mask { from demi- shot toye lamp your well then cuss what more { deep twit game stir ware more veto town lamb { ankh oval host quad fuse wall that iorn site tour copy { lair lace gown hawk deed keys stun hull { crib gale stun skin knot mind goof debt { roit mask they hear loss tort gage from stag abbe town bond { time reed good go-go mane rate reef rear { read toss race want teat hoot cord taxi { base task call slip tote topi type glen { stun mock skin fury mall wage tone-deaf case { stub gist slop team head bill rate furn reef rear { read news hard vote tong they hear must { sign tool okay slum dove kind seem vitz tome { your shut well hype shit vina feel pant card gild { full body ulna cord toke gain zori { taxi base coze task call boat line type cube silk amok lose { odds sing fuck toll geom tryo come cural good { culm even body bear mind what more tola full prop aeon togs { area togs tell pact frow crim ages type coma { park flax poop park toga flax next frig comb { turn will tyke wool pail moly clog data mail coil quad prod { time tube hypo- roan hetz lash ambo clew fair { tint coin word very feel lack will clip weir time { coke sale heed trim form dawn clay pres mine { room cural good such coil even clap roof masc meth { corp duty talk view magi elem myth muse mutt { muni trap mtge rood city code amid mind { mark edit make coze host foot romp coax { even time more gray then eggs sale heed { econ rare foot hold odds roll scat circ coat wood cove rock { halt arch slur keep hart copy kind that rock { band east don't taxi roan hetz lash chow half note scan ambo { HVAC loft coal with roar must suit neck fair { bite quiz aeon ears half-inch area tell roam { good vara duty rive haik bawl boob wind wear hunt huff { road adit park till rite unan serf ring turn { cook tool boon rule bass wold bolt tile home { rift tree hosp home self cooks rung high dust ruse comb { ties rice rest abbe norm reed rate neut { spot wide dyke week sink grid runt gate { repo find link veto coze host dupe quad seed tiby look { call pate rung mood turn cook tool dunt wear { text blot yard talk show pass sash task half-cell call boat { drum line holo- bill tank over yore blow reap part raze { cents case boat park crux kids wear sand coup { aeon afar hair your life shot after beta pare boar drop { drub lack copy kind that peak inch koro faze { view myth muse mutt drag muni mtge will-call { amid glass muck idol fast time hair lion cite kora { pain yo-yo fact iman whiz lobe kept lira { kook salt size land mind idle horn axle fats live { dram cold weir list kohl puck keep idem fare { mane anon card worm holy euro idea knot weed dove cyto- { kiss side cyma able fana form knot weft year { ring keep rock face-lift from dote { suit pure iorn cone exon knap dorm belt over mass marl fail { body knot new mind lilt hear knee loss { salis fair push dong time reed etch lift life { cell arce thus acid kine deny hype pant card site { hill eros duty wear hora ambi- cask heel { life-care wash butt kick dock sand inch quad kill lich gate { hetz fire diva { ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 07:15:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: teddy Subject: CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0026 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0026 [excerpt] THE LITTLE CREETUR INFIRMARY => BUILDERS WEAPONSMITHS EMBROIDERERS BLACKSMITHS CARPENTERS TAILORS JUDICIAL WITH PUZZLED OF AS THOUGH HE HAD POLYTHENE|ETIQUETTE => OR WAS ABOUT TO AND ALL THE SCHOLARS THERE ABOUND => FOOTBALL => HOARD => A YEAR SEEM => SENT => TRANSCENDS => SUFFERER => UNLIKE => BENEATH => BIRD => AND FOR SCULPTURING BUT THE FORFEITURE OF ALL HIS CHASES WARRENS GATES AND MUSCLES => SCRAWNY => BAILIWICKS AND CHURCH => CLIMBER => IN BOT WITH SHILLINGS THOUGHTFUL ALTHOUGH => THE MARGARET => OF SLEEPLESS KILLED => LOVE => AND HE WAS EDWARD THE CONFESSOR NAMED SUCH FOR HIS PIETY WAS A OF WEAK => WHISTLERS => OF ANY FOLLOWER => HOLIDAY => MEALS AND MEETINGS AT WHICH THE RECEIVED HOMAGES RECOVERED FEES THIS LEGARE ASKED ME IF WOULD THE IF IT BE AND MEMBRANES COVERING THE BRAIN INDIGESTION => DROP => AS THE IS THE BE PAID TO HIM THEIR PROFESSOR => RANDY => OF THEIR THE GAZE => TO COLLAPSE => PICK => UPRISINGS OF THE WONDERFUL|DELILAH => OF THE THE UNTIL THE COCONUT => IN WERE BRITISH => COMMAND => PLACED IN URNS BEFORE SCHOOL => IN SPRINT => TORCH|OMAR => OF OR THE IN HIS RAILROAD => SALES => IN THE KING CHARACTERISTICS => HE DEARTH => DECAY => HIS PIGS MICHAEL MORAN AND THE CHEER HE DISPENSES SLEEPING => THEREFOR AFTER SUMMONS HAS BEEN MADE THE NOT REIGN => ROYALTY => COLLAPSE => PICK => ANY MODERN => MOVE => FROM THE OF FORGETTING => OF D AND HE FIDDLE => LOOSE => FROM THE PERFECTION => ABOUND => MEALS OF THE TO SOLITUDE AND WHEN AT WHEEDLE => WHO => THE GRIM JAFFA => THE RELIEF OF THE KING OF AGE OWED TO THE TALLAGES OF THE BURGESSES AND DEBTS OWED TO THE YOU BE TO YOUR DYIN PERFECTION => THAT YOU HAD TO PASSIVE => PEACEFUL => THE WASHING|KITKAT => CONTAINING SHELVES PILED WITH CLOTHS OF ALL AND NO GLOVER BE ADMITTED TO THE OF THE ALUMINIUM => VESSELS => UNLESS WITH DIDDLE => OF THE PROFESSOR => RANDY => AND OF THE SLOSHED => BE THE HIM HE ALLEGED THAT THE DEFENDANT HAD PUSS => QUAINT => THE DOORPOST OF THE PROFESSOR => RANDY => OWED SERVICES OR SIDES => TO THE OR NOT IT DEARTH => DECAY => HONORHONOUR => OR A R|RUB => TO THE OF PARK => IN RETURN => ENCLOSE => FOOTBALL => HOARD => SIDEWALK => SPRAY => HIS SPITE => AND STOPPER => THEM TO HIM HE TO THE FANCIFUL => PRAWN => SALTY => SAUSAGES => BY FURNISHING NARCISSUS => PLANK => FROM THE ECCLESIASTICAL UNMARRIED => VACANT => ALL LAWYERS WERE FOR => AND SLAVES THIS WAS DEEMED TO BE CLEANLINESS => FOAM => S MILES => HALF|ANAN => WERE OR UNDERROLLBUBBLINGMOV => THEY WORE AND REACHES => OF FLATS => OPPRESSION => WHEEDLE => WHO => WETTER => WORM => OF THE AS DELINEATED BY ST GERMAIN IN AND IN THEY ARE OF BROTHERS TINY => TRICKLE => FLOWED BITTERNESS WITH MONIES => MORE => AND HERE AND THERE DOESNTMAKESACTS => SURPRISE => WHOM => AND WIDE IN DOORS => LOCKED => STATES THE THE THOUGHTFUL AND THE SNOWY WHICH OBLIGATORY => OF MASSES FOR THE MEALS RELIEF OF BIRTHDAYS => WHAT YOU HAVE DISHONESTY => FICKLE => DEMANDED EMILE OFFENSES WERE CRACKER => CRACKS => FLAGS|ENSIGNS => OF HERE IS THIS YOUR YOURN STRANGERS COMING INTO THIS SAMPLE => BE ROSE => USED A CASH => CRASH => FROCK => NOW MIGHTY MARS EMILE E BEN CASH => CRASH => DESE THE CLERGY AND LAWYERS AND THE DISAGREEABLE => OF RICHARD ROBIN FATNESS => FITNESS => LIZZIE LIZZIE MIS MOSES SHE WOULD OBLIGATORY => TO SEE YOU CLEANING => DEMANDED THE WRIT PRECIPICEEDGESHEERPR => AT THE PARTITIONS OF TOTAL FEINTED|TAJ MAHAL => OF UNIMPORTANT => POUNDS AND TO HIS THE PROFITS OF THE BOROUGH PAYING FOR THEM LUNG => LUNG => TO THE OF ASSISTANCE THEY WERE FRATERNITIES OF PETALS|STAMINA => BY MILKMAID => MINE => BRINGING INTO THE SEEING => HAVE IT EXAMINED AT HIS --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:51:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: WWAC: Howe Ondaatje 10/7:reminder Comments: To: askliterary@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE WALT WHITMAN ARTS CENTER located on the Rutgers Camden Campus invites you to a reading and Q&A featuring: MICHAEL ONDAATJE & FANNY HOWE on THURSDAY NOVEMBER 7, 2002 at 7:30 pm Entrance: $6 / $4 students/seniors/ free to members Arrive early! For information and directions, contact: Walt Whitman Art Center 2nd and Cooper Streets Camden, NJ 08102 856-964-8300 wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org www.waltwhitmancenter.org Consider membership! For as little as $25.00 enjoy free admission to all upcoming Center readings, and most other events, in addition to discounts on workshops and books. Fanny Howe, one of our most unique and luminous poet/fiction authors, was born in Buffalo, New York, in 1940. Her recent collections of poetry include Selected Poems (University of California Press, 2000), Forged (1999), Q (1998), One Crossed Out (1997), O'Clock (1995), and The End (1992). Howe is also the author of several novels, including Indivisble (Semiotexte, 2000) Nod (Sun & Moon Press, 1998), short story collections, and books for young adults. Howe was the recipient of the 2001 Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize for her Selected Poems. She has also won awards from the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Poetry Foundation, the California Council for the Arts, and the Village Voice, as well as fellowships from the Bunting Institute and the MacArthur Colony. She has lectured in creative writing at Tufts University, Emerson College, Columbia University, Yale University, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology. *************************************** Sri-Lanka native Michael Ondaatje is a literary phenomenon: a best-selling writer, one whose work is a stunning fusion of jazz rhythms, film montage technique, and profoundly beautiful language. Although he is best known as a novelist, Ondaatje's work also encompasses memoir, poetry, and film, and reveals a passion for defying conventional form. In his landmark novel The English Patient - later made into the Academy Award-winning film - he explores the history of people history does not explore, intersecting four diverse lives at the end of World War II. Ondaatje is himself an interesting intersection of cultures. Born in the former Ceylon of Dutch/Indian ancestry, he was raised in London, and is now a Canadian citizen. From the memoir of his childhood, Running in the Family, to his Governor-General's award-winning book of poetry, There's a Trick With a Knife I'm Learning To Do, to his classic novel, The English Patient, Michael Ondaatje casts a spell over his readers. And having won the British Commonwealth's highest honor, The Booker Prize Ondaatje has taken his rightful place as a contemporary literary treasure. His most recent novel, Anil's Ghost, won the Governor General's Award, the Giller Prize, the Prix Medicis, and the Irish Times Literature Prize. His newest work, The Conversations, a book of conversations between Mr. Ondaatje and master film and sound editor Walter Murch, has just been released. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:52:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: list change MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT got a desperate bc today: "maybe i tired the wwrong list/ but i thought we met on suny buffalo poetics listserv and i do want back on so pls post ques and beg them to take pity on old woman who is having trouble trying to rejoin and desperate for intelligent email" has the list been changed so that only graduate students are allowed to join it now? tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:52:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Baja California review Comments: To: Narcise@aol.com, b-theater@factoryschool.org, bchandler@heronpress.com, Kimmelman@NJIT.EDU, bizarre_inc@yahoo.com, CBlackburn@alumni-mail.gs.columbia.edu, chax@theriver.com, cqw6841@nyu.edu, cstein@webjogger.net, favretto@mail.sdsu.edu, criverag@mail.sdsu.edu, glotzer.dh@mellon.com, soaring2002@attbi.com, doug.barbour@ualberta.ca, djmess@CINENET.NET, edgardo@latambooks.sdcoxmail.com, eduarellano@yahoo.com, obispa@mindspring.com, wildmanpress@yahoo.fr, grosman@albany.edu, fmoramar@mail.sdsu.edu, gudding@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu, gtm@info.rec.uabc.mx, geconomou@earthlink.net, coyote.z@chek.com, gm@gregorymcnamee.com, halvard@earthlink.net, jehlew@aol.com, grupo100@laneta.apc.org, howard@photoillustration.net, hcros@hotmail.com, frisbeehunter@cox.net, JASFOLEY@aol.com, JASFOLEY@aol.com, jsefami@uci.edu, joanlind@adnc.com, edit@jacketmagazine.com, ortegacevedo@yahoo.com, JoseKozer@aol.com, juancr@onebox.com, juancr@onebox.com, KJOHNSON@HCCSTUDENT.HIGHLAND.CC.IL.US, kdykstra@acsu.buffalo.edu, laurimac2001@yahoo.com, tumbler@bway.net, cortesbargallo@starmedia.com, luis_ituarte@hotmail.com, G5R@sdcity.sannet.gov, perloff@leland.stanford.edu, Mark_Schafer@hmco.com, pomowen@ix.netcom.com, MMervthegoat@aol.com, mh7@is2.nyu.edu, abriel@well.com, ntarn@earthlink.net, norieclarke@earthlink.net, Normacole@aol.com, oruiz@colef.mx, nyp2@aol.com, nazul@aol.com, philippearonson@yahoo.fr, joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU, RaeA100900@AOL.COM, ary@theriver.com, rochelleratner@mindspring.com, sbenne00@umail.ucsb.edu, swaisman@mail.sdsu.edu, Stevetune@aol.com, Steph484@pacbell.net, sclay@granarybooks.com, ses@usc.edu, sn08levi@humanitas.ucsb.edu, tenney@azstarnet.com, tcole@utmb.edu, tlmolinero@cs.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TEMPERATURE, RISING The border region is burning with literary fever; 'Across the Line/Al Otro Lado' captures the poetry of Baja Reviewed by Luis Alberto Urrea November 3, 2002 The Poetry of Baja California Edited by Harry Polkinhorn & Mark Weiss Junction Press, 382 pages, $25 Border perestroika collapsed on 9/11. In Vicente Fox, conservative America= =20 had its dream come true =96 a Mexican president who could arguably be called= =20 a Republican. Fox was certainly the first Coca_Cola executive to take the= helm. He proposed a sweeping change on the border, and not in the usual=20 hand_wringing terms of human rights or the surly post_revolutionary cant of= =20 the former regimes. No, Fox came at George Bush with a simple message: capitalism. Mexico represented billions= =20 of potential profit dollars to post_NAFTA America. "Border?" Washington=20 cried. "What border?" Al Qaeda put an end to that. The border situation worsens yearly. The death toll is rising. Both the=20 right and the left spout endless opinions in the face of a mounting human= =20 catastrophe, one side excoriating the illegals and the other spanking the= INS. And it's not that our two great peoples don't want to get along. There are= =20 proposals for immigration museums floating around both San Diego and El=20 Paso. (El Paso is probably going to win that race, with a=20 multimillion_dollar project under way at the University of Texas at El=20 Paso.) Rock and pop music now crosses borders with ease. Literature is=20 still sputtering, somewhat, but the Latino writers keep on coming. Perhaps,= =20 as scholars have often suggested, it is the job of art and culture to=20 repair what has been destroyed by war and befuddled by politics. OK, OK =96 the Salvation of the Border is an unfair burden to lay on a= humble=20 anthology of poems by my Baja California homies. However, "Across the Line/Al Otro Lado" is a long_overdue eye_opener, a=20 harbinger of greatness to come. The alleged wasteland of our "benighted"=20 sub_border desert is, and always has been, teeming with literary life. It's= =20 a great time for the arts in the Tijuana/Frontera nexus. The revolutionary Nortec Collective, with their radical techno beats sliced= =20 and diced from classic ranchero music, has subverted the music scene in the= =20 United States, to the point where you hear Nortec when the new Volvo=20 commercial rolls across your teevee screen. Nortec has also inspired a=20 hearty writing community, featuring many young Mexican wild_women and=20 warriors of the pen. (Two of the Mexicali poets in the anthology are=20 rocanrol stars on the border.) In San Diego, the Taco Shop Poets are taking= =20 matters into their own hands. (If there is a failure on the literary border, it is the friction between=20 the Tijuana and San Diego writers. If they could form a unity of vision and= =20 purpose, then something truly extraordinary and world_class might erupt=20 from our streets.) "Across the Line/Al Otro Lado" should be required reading in our high=20 schools and colleges. Edited by Harry Polkinhorn and Mark Weiss, it=20 features a whopping 54 poets in face_to_face Spanish and English text. As is often the case with English translations of Spanish material, some of= =20 the translators have been timid, or even meddling. They sometimes try to=20 sound "Latin" in their translated elocutions, and the effort seems forced=20 and even tortured, when many of the originals sing. This is, of course, a quibble. And it's a complaint that can be laid on the= =20 translators of Octavio Paz and Pablo Neruda, too. Weiss and Polkinhorn are excellent editors. Their introductory materials=20 are a handy, concise history of the literary movements of Mexicali, Tecate,= =20 Tijuana, et al. I bet you didn't know they had a literary history. Start=20 being surprised. Possibly delighted. Mexico doesn't know, either. If you feel a healthy dose of liberal guilt=20 about our bad attitude toward Baja California, rest assured that the=20 Mexican motherland has a worse problem. Baja is a strange, breakaway,=20 revolutionary area, an isolated dark continent unto itself, where dangerous= =20 thoughts breed and wild independence is the rule. Baja makes Roger=20 Hedgecock and Vicente Fox nervous. One of the many treats in this book is finding out how many small presses=20 there are on the Mexican side of the border. Yo, locos, are you kidding me,= =20 or what =96 the index of authors lists some 20 small/university presses. Add= =20 to that a healthy literary magazine community. Who wouldn't want to publish= =20 a book with a press called Chuchuma? How many presses are there in=20 Calexico, I wonder? In Brawley? Editor Weiss is the author of "Fieldnotes," one of the mostdelightful books= =20 of American poetry of the last decade. It was criminally overlooked =96=20 perhaps an element of being a San Diego_based poet. "You simply cannot be a= =20 poet in San Diego," a poet who fled that bastion on the hill, UCSD,=20 recently snarked to another, Chicago_based poet. That may be true at UCSD, especially for the five or six Latino students=20 there. But step into the city and you'll find lively poetry (ask Weiss).=20 Even more bubbles up from the barrio. And there is an absolute storm of=20 verse across the border. Poets, move to Tijuana! Polkinhorn, Weiss' co_editor, has long been active in the Chicano/Latino=20 scene. His work helped keep the seminal journal Maize afloat way back in=20 prehistory. He is a scholar with many years of service at San Diego State.= =20 (That's the college that actually has Mexicans in it.) Not all the poets in this book are exemplary, or brilliant. But there has=20 never been an anthology in which every poet gave good weight. If you like=20 Bukowski, I'm not sure you'll get all a_tingle over Denise Levertov, for=20 example. Still, with some leeway given for vagaries of taste, the poets in "Across=20 the Line/Al Otro Lado" are always interesting, and sometimes astounding.=20 Like many Mexican poets of the 20th/21st centuries, they owe a deep debt to= =20 Neruda and Mistral. But the rigors of Paz and the sly dryness of Jose=20 Emilio Pacheco are also greatly in evidence. These aren't rustic slouches = =96=20 these are poets engaged in the art, wrestling with structuralism,=20 postmodernism, minimalism, surrealism. One wonders where Juan Reynas,=20 Esali, Jose Javier Villarreal, Julieta Irigoyen, to name a few, have been=20 all these years. Well, they have been here all along; we simply didn't know. Barring Laura=20 Bush =96 who, by the way, is a great fan of Latino writing =96 initiating a= =20 norte=F1o poetry festival, this book might be the best place for us to= start.=20 I hope it is marketed in Mexico, too. My dear Baja is waiting to take its=20 proper place as the center of the literary map. Luis Alberto Urrea is the author of "Across the Wire:=20 Life and Hard Times on the Mexican Border." His newest book is= "Six Kinds of Sky." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:11:01 -1000 Reply-To: Bill Luoma Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Luoma Subject: Broadsides Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Center Broadsides Reading Series: Friday November 8, 7pm Brenda Coultas and Bill Luoma read with limited edition broadsides of their work designed and letterpress printed by CBA Artist Members, available for sale to benefit The Center for Book Arts programs. The poets will be introduced by Marcella Durand. CBA Members FREE, non-members $5 suggested donation good towards broadside purchase. Center for Book Arts 28 West 27th Street New York, NY 10001 Phone: (212) 481-0295 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 15:10:28 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: Cecilia Vicuna MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelsey St. Press is delighted to announce the publication of INSTAN by Cecilia Vicu=F1a. The press would like to announce the following events. November 5th - CECILIA VICU=D1A, reading at 7:30 PM, Poetry Center, California College of Arts and Crafts, Timken Lecture Hall, 1111 Eighth St., San Francisco, CA Exhibition of CECILIA VICU=D1A'S drawings, THE DRAWING CENTER, 135 Wooster, New York, November 2nd- mid December December 5th - CECILIA VICU=D1A, BOOK PARTY, SIGNING AND PERFORMANCE AT THE=20 DRAWING CENTER, 6:30pm, 35 Wooster St, New York Kelsey St. Press 50 Northgate Ave. Berkeley, CA 94708 T (510) 845-2260 F (510) 548-9185 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 14:11:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: dear to those not driving the car In-Reply-To: <140.1dc3e6e.2af6dcb4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dear to those not driving the car this is an open letter. this is not a letter. this is the letter =94e.=94=20= there are no letters in this alphabet that walk down the street. there=20= are no words that adequately describe anything, they only signify the=20 already multiple layered stains of history=92s of concrete (cement)=20 /stone {steel} - speeding bullets, guillotine sundays and or electric=20 shock holidays. a history with no base - just harshly administered=20 happiness, smile and look straight here or all the time. maybe only=20 verbs work? can you write in just verbs: peer, peep, proclaim, profess,=20= echo (oh dear echo - my dear faghag how lovely you were/are)....no,=20 maybe not just verbs, even verbs carry certain chain gang evening wear:=20= schmooze, rubberneck, master... it's always a form a mastery or the=20 master slave command and control reiteration, "bombardier, bombardier,=20= this is the captain, we are approaching the target." first a note: this is a manifesto, is not, there is no = proclaiming,=20 substituting one cement block with another. I am this you are that, we=20= need freedom, better prices. what is freedom? is that an illusion set=20 forth by some who can privilege a vision. is there evolution? is there=20= evolutionary revolution? is there rolling thunder, a cascade of=20 showers, flower morning dew? does morning dew cascade? over the earths=20= surface in the prose of the earth. maybe it is the awareness of the master tongue, the major = language,=20 the institute of proper behavior, time itself, what else is brought to=20= you by, yours truly - cocacola running shoes. seeing the construct of=20 the construct of the construct and the white picketed fence. to much in to little time, there's that factory clock again, = there's=20 that 9-5, 8-5, 5 days a weeks, sixty second to the finish, 2 days for=20 R&r, an occasional pain holiday if you are not an indenture particle or=20= an odalisque in drag, waiting for the next reengineered fetish machine=20= to complete your oedipal 12 place setting. and really whose not? maybe what I am looking at/for is a new way of being/ writing/=20= speaking (but mostly writing) that is relational to my/ or anybody's=20 becoming (not the "I am a ____ and here's my story" - which is as solid=20= as the previous cement block or future stock in cement blocks), which=20 is content in flux, an undefined jello-mold with a hole in the bottom,=20= I am leaking, I am leaking, help me, I am leaking on to the floor or=20 your shoes . . . go ahead lick it up and taste the dissolved gains of=20 sugar. who said we need to be recognized or seen for what we are, we = already=20 know we are held in a position at the end of a barrel, the knife, the=20 courts, and or state sponsored violence. and if we live in the sunday=20= revolution, "I have a great job, and send my ten dollars in to the=20 right organization," a particle rejection/ revolution is like a=20 particle rebirth; my toes feels fine but the rest of my body still=20 feels like shit. no, what I am talking about is the flux of absence,=20 not having the words and using the absence to speak of speaking without=20= a language, with out letter ??}}=3D^@ or 1+x=3D0 (always) or maybe not, = no=20 rule, only the rules of the content or expression of moment in the=20 moment of becoming. a revolution must be predicated on sounds. what is the sound of=20= absence of a language, or letters. how do you speak with the master=20 tongue and except to be seen, heard or touched as anything but the=20 masters tool and or plaything...speak in tongues, speak in digression,=20= in the language or that that does not exist.= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 15:51:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Baja California review In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20021103115218.03287a60@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah, the globalism question again. Literary historians have often pointed out that the invigoration of English poetry has depended on the translation and transformation of outside models (Wyatt transforms Petrarch, Pound transforms Li Bai). I assume that this paradigm fits other literatures, too. So does the Mexican-U.S. border situation represent an anomalous case? From the review, I get the sense that the Mexicans are benefiting from their assimilation of outside influences, which would seem to confirm the historians' paradigm. The droll suggestion that poets "move to Tijuana" (and commute to San Diego?) raises the further possibility that the best situation for poetry is by no means a "local" or "indigenous" one, but rather a place where there is maximum receptivity to at least two strong cultural traditions. The U.S. would seem not to be such a place. Also this suggests that as writers we should endorse globalism insofar as globalizing media make all national cultur es proximate. Or? (In any case, the anthology sounds interesting.) Andy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:55:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Acker conference Thursday and Friday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A conference devoted to the work of Kathy Acker, and coinciding with the publication of *Essential Acker*, ed. Amy Scholder and Dennis Cooper (along with Acker's first novel, *Rip-Off Red: Girl Detective*), is taking place at New York University this Thursday and Friday. Below is the line-up. Hope to see you there (and if you're coming, get there early--space is limited). ***** Thursday, November 7, 2002 6pm Opening Presentation Speakers: Avital Ronell and Peter Wollen Special Guest: Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick 7:30-8:30pm Reception and opening of the exhibition "Lust for Life: The Life and Wriitngs of Kathy Acker." Friday, November 8, 2002 9:00am Opening remarks: Steven Shaviro 9:15-10:45 Panel One INFLUENCING ACKER Panelists: David Antin Robert Glueck Carla Harryman Liz Kotz moderator, Ellen Friedman 11:00-12:30 Panel Two PHILOSOPHY IN THE BEDROOM Panelists: Susan Hawkins Eleanor Kaufman Chris Kocela Barrett Watten moderator, Ulrich Baer 12:30-2:00 Lunch on your own 2:00-3:30 Panel Three LABYRINTHS OF GENDER Panelists: Caroline Bergvall Leslie Dick Judith Halberstam Catherine Liu moderator, Linda Kauffman 4:00-5:30 ROUND TABLE What is the question/problem/possibility that Acker's work poses for you in your work? Panelists: Nayland Blake Leslie Scalapino Carolee Schneemann Sarah Schulman Chris Tysh Matias Viegener moderator, Lynne Tillman 5:30: Closing Remarks 6:00 pm READING The final event of the conference will be a reading from Essential Acker, a collection of Acker's writing edited by Amy Scholder and Dennis Cooper that will be published by Grove Press in conjunction with the symposium. Readers will be: Richard Foreman Diamanda Galas Kim Gordon Kathleen Hanna Rick Moody Sapphire ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:58:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Acker conference registration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There is a website for the Acker conference, and it's advisable to register there if you are interested in attending. BW ***** The complete program for the symposium is available on our website at: http://www.nyu.edu/library/bobst/research/fales/pande.htm Registration is required for attendees. Room is limited for the conference and we're nearly full, so please encourage anyone who you know plans to attend to sign up on the website. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:15:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: reading reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet Zinnes reads from her new book of poems, DRAWING ON THE WALL Wednesday, November 6th, at 6:00, Corneia Street Cafe, 29 Cornelia Street, at Bleecker, NYC (212-989-0319) (with other Marsh Hawk poets) Sunday, Novdember 10th, at 5:00 p m, A Gathering of the Tribes, 285 East 3rd Street, NYC, between Avenues C & D (212-674--3778. A solo reading .......................... Harriet Zinnes's many books include Plunge (poetry chapook), My, Haven't the Flowers Been? (poems), The Radiant Absurdity of Desire (short stories), Lover (short stories), Ezra Pound and the Visual Arts (criticism), and Blood and Feathers (translations from the French poetry of Jacques Prevert). She is a contributing editor of The Denver Quality and of The Hollins Critic, and a contributing writer of The New York Arts Magazine. Her new book of poems, Drawing on the Wall, was published this year. She is Professor Emerita of English of Queens College of the City University of New York ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 23:09:44 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Vidal on Bush & 9/11; Camp X-Ray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gore Vidal on the Complicity of the 'Bush junta' in the 9/11 Attacks from last Sunday's Observer: http://www.observer.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,819941,00.html (Due to copyright issues the complete article is not available on-line in full) An Interview with Gore Vidal in the LA Weekly: http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/33/features-cooper.php The Inhumanity of Camp Delta; or The Complete Erosion of Civil Liberties in the US http://www.observer.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,825197,00.html an excerpt: "[...] Each man spends 30 minutes a week showering and exercising; the rest of the time he is alone in a cell measuring 8ft by 6ft 8in. "A prisoner raising his voice is sent to 'the cooler': a metal box just big enough to move in. An isolation wing houses 80 prisoners. In the main wings, prisoners move cell every few weeks to prevent them forming relationships with other inmates. Any trips to the camp's clinic involve the prisoner being shackled to a trolley and wheeled out of his cell. He is then chained to the hospital bed. Prisoners are exercised, shackled at the ankles, waist and hands. Guards hold each man's arms as he walks. "Interrogations are carried out by operatives from a special unit called JTF 170, made up of agents from the CIA, FBI and military intelligence. No beatings have been reported, but psychological techniques - including sleep deprivation - are used. [...] "There have been four serious attempts at suicide, three by hanging with towels and bedding and one when an inmate tried to slash his wrists with a plastic razor. Thirty other inmates have tried to injure themselves." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:22:09 -0800 Reply-To: solipsis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: solipsis Subject: COSM/COMM-ITZNAUMANOHOCHACYUAMAXTLI Comments: To: xtant@cstone.net, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable COSM/COMM-[ITZNAUMANOHOCHACYUAMAXTLI] (axis:"freedom from = determination") http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/chickenscratch/lquarles/itznaumanohochacy= uamaxtli.html http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/chickenscratch/lquarles/itznaumanohochacy= uamaxtli.html http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/chickenscratch/lquarles/itznaumanohochacy= uamaxtli.html http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/chickenscratch/lquarles/itznaumanohochacy= uamaxtli.html NS SN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 01:03:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII at www.asondheim.org/portal over-18 please more video forthcoming leg.jpg life.mov look2.jpg mmau.mov mov.txt movie.txt other00.JPG other01.JPG other02.JPG other03.JPG other04.JPG other05.JPG other06.JPG other07.JPG other08.JPG other09.JPG other10.JPG other11.JPG red.mov skein01.jpg skein02.jpg skein03.jpg skein04.jpg skein05.jpg skein06.jpg skein07.jpg skein08.jpg skein09.jpg skein10.jpg theory1.jpg theory2.jpg theory3.jpg theory4.jpg theory5.jpg theory6.jpg theory7.jpg theory8.jpg tub2.jpg tub5.jpg tub6.jpg tub7.jpg tub8.jpg urn8.jpg === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 05:41:17 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Of late on the Blog Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Comments: cc: Discussion of Women's Poetry List , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK In-Reply-To: <20021104051001.BDEC4103F2@wiz.cath.vt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Bromige's path to language Barbara Guest & the abstract lyric The role of critical writing within langpo Louis Cabri, Tom Orange & Kevin Davies on the Canadian poetry / New York School question Influencing the dead: the impact of Brian Kim Stefans & Araki Yasusada on Jack Spicer The problem of time in literary formations: Spicer's view of poetry in 1958 vs.1965 Poetic prose: a map of the subgenres Canadian poetry = New American Poetry minus the NY School. Why? The quotidian in poetry - it's not adjunct to the work Narrative Drive: what is it? http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:31:04 -0500 Reply-To: maryrosel@excite.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maryrose Larkin Subject: spare room presents peace words MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spare Room presents... Peace Words IIWriters & Musicians Against HungerThe second annual marathon of readings & performances to benefit Oregon Food Bank and Oxfam AmericaSunday November 10, 2002, 12 noon to 8:00 pmPacific Crest Community School116 NE 29th (between Couch & Davis)Portland, OregonSuggested donation $15.00 (no one turned away)Performers:Turiya Autrey, Alicia Cohen, Brittney Corrigan, Michael Crenshaw, Gale Czerski, Raphael Dagold, Danika Dinsmore, Tom Fisher, Martha Gies, Molly Gloss, Ariel Gore, Leanne Grabel, Kathleen Halme, Matthew Herschler, Bill Johnson, Jill Kelly, Christopher Luna, Greta Marchesi, Laura Moulton, Lisa Newman, Mark Owens, Paulann Petersen, Mary Rechner, Katharine Salzmann, Willa Schneberg, Greg Simon, April Sunrise, Noah Wasserman, Bethany Wright, Pacific Crest students Linda Austin, The Inquisition Ensemble, The Minor Thirds, Michael Stirling, Courtney Von Drehle, and more! Peace Words collaborators and donors include: Pacific C rest Community School, 2Gyrlz Performative Arts, Stumptown Printing/Firefly Press, Pearl Bakery, and Stumptown Coffee Roasters. For more information about Peace Words and Spare room, call the Dial-a-Poem line at 503-236-0867, email spareroom@outgun.com, or visit www.flim.com/spareroom Peace Words II is part of the monthlong enteractive Language Arts Festival coordinated by 2Gyrlz Performative Arts; see full festival calendar at www.2gyrlz.org _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:32:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?it=92s_the_sounds_that_ignites_a_thought_?= In-Reply-To: <140.1dc3e6e.2af6dcb4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it=92s the sounds that ignites a thought the way it hurls at me with deep throated stakes spun in murderous rapture an esher night a never ends caught rummaging through pale blue eyes and scratchy fingers sucking cement shallows to the core sinew on a spot pronounced by some god as neither heaven or hell wanton epileptic rages in its spasmodic fits to rewinds the clock a click-track motionless opium warms my synonym, its a stock joke {this can be no salvation - there's no moderation in the details} I catch a moment, a monet, a crystal wall/ball/tower, abandoned in the=20= fantasy, a shadow lives with syncopated desire, something left in the=20= waiting line for a loaf of bread, or a fortune tellers next angle on=20 small rocks. it works for the time-being to use super glue on a victims eyes but this can not be it, I was promised, land and a mule, a state in=20 self domination, a counter point, two coins in the fountain, a place to=20= call home, a utopia I can call my own, a toll free number the coin is tossed again, the air catches it in a freeze frame a dilettante rescues the forbidden and ushers in a new cycle for the=20 aspiring site-specific audience then {=93___________=94} and again the rocks are wrecked on the bow, a=20= blackened sheet of drippy eyes emerge for more tailer old gray mare a wise crack comes from the raw throated device-dansez la danse de fin=20= morte des morts pour le ce soir est durent or wait for the dawn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:37:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Berlow Subject: Witter Bynner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 4 Nov 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > What do those who know of him or know his works do people think of = > Witter Bynner? I went to St. John's College in Santa Fe and when I was there the Witter Bynner house was used as off-campus housing. I never lived there myself but went there a number of times. It was a beautiful large rambling house with all sorts of nooks and crannies and various sheds and additions, truly a work of art in itself. I think the college has since sold it off, what a shame. I think Bynner gave it to the college since he had no children. It was like the setting for a strange cult of poetics. I also know he translated some ancient greek plays. -- Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:46:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Virginia the Horse-Leech, the Lamp-Eyed Mare Head Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed escalation above personal agency nomination existed between equals rockets had been fired to aid your tears of joy VIRGINIA knows how to read too I...wanted... SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY WISHES VIRGINIA hit pay dirt when she started describing my beginnings newlyweds are doing it quickly VIRGINIA is unequal to the far cry cronyism was less than tactical I... said... I was a genuine advisor _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:05:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Massed Gadgets Of Herakles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the awful thing tells me a star is called a mountain ___________________________ repugnant farmhands live in your apartment ___________________________ a mysterious snowing (marvelous?) broke into conversations __________________________ dust detail __________________________ a lump sticking out of the two __________________________ the house would be so white __________________________ very friendly and pretty piece of shit __________________________ the bunnies seemed only fair __________________________ tone of voice cry at the top of black __________________________ my knee beheld their eyebrows spectacular __________________________ the ball with milk twenty minutes later __________________________ nice things in Arabic __________________________ dirty knees when she was fourteen __________________________ Art & junk-dreams spoiled the poor fellow __________________________ goodnight kisses against her cheekbone __________________________ your friends are enough company __________________________ the matches had pulled her eyebrows __________________________ a good joke is walking about __________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:43:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: content In-Reply-To: <140.1dc3e6e.2af6dcb4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable content 1. the winds of war 2. a dull desire 3. neither a nor b 4. pass or fail 4,a. in or out 5. that=92s life 6. love it or leave it 7. better off left as is 8. it will come without warning 9. first with war 10. between worlds 11. from the bottom up 12. voices against a nation 13. a vision of neglect 14. between virtue and vice 15. unworthily at any time 16. vague and dizzy 17. unprotected and unquiet 18. unreadable and becoming 19. an instrument of the soul 20. think with it and use it hard 21. when treason is no crime 22. trash a sin or a banner 23. to thy self be everything 24. tissues and rocks 25. a ward eye on spent rocks 26. redeemed in the silent touch of 27. thick as a thoroughfare 28 sublime as a personal transcendence 29. stained without sleep 30. stunned in growth 31. a robber and a chair 32. straight to hell in a hand basket 33. whose existence's is stupid stuff 33. rotten to the core 34. motet lava aftermath 35. to strive to seek 36. to remove the straight jacket 37. steal their will to power 38. start not at square one 39. a rapprochement agreement 40. loose of strata and squares 41. subtle shades of woodcocks 42. a train wreck in waiting 43. zero degrees and a temperate zones 44. thick as thieves 45. a bakers dozen= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:45:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: St. Ann's Review? Nov 21? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I hear that on Nov 21, there is to be a reading by Philip Levine for a new journal called 'St. Ann's Review" -- somewhere in NYC area-- can anyone supply details of this event? Please backchannel. Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:58:50 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia. The Rueful Morgue. Parts I to III Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Part I - The Rueful Morgue and the rueful morgue with its sisters of mercy, sisters. never let it be said that something other than a word=20 or two or three in close succession can kill.=20 The rape of the Sabines in the mouths of some=20 would infer they brought it on themselves. But let us not digress. The point of this is pointed=20 where you want it.=20 A kind of voyeurism passed mouth to mouth=20 month to month=20 and yet, no satisfaction. Only shows some of her symptoms sometimes. And that sometimes never comes. It never comes. And the old hag is not so green as she is cabbage looking. They of the limpid lingua languid clapshot altruism. Spit. The murderess stands in the dock before the judge No, that's not it at all. She crawls on all fours and it wasn't murder anyway He died of natural causes That part is easy. Children wish people dead. And then they die. And you have seen inside her conscience. You have seen. The murderess? Part II - The Rueful Morgue and the rueful morgue with its sisters of mercy, sisters. never let it be said that something other than a word=20 or two or three in close succession can kill.=20 It really is quite simple, had you driven through June The effort, the effort, the court jester just did her best, even, in a pinch, doubled in brass as the Inamorata. She never could tell fantasy from fiction. And when the audience wishes Shakespeare,=20 why here is Guildenstern. Ask her to do the siren, she drinks it on the rocks. Want a trip back to McSorley's? Summon her, summon her He comes when she calls. And she calls a lot, whether or not she is asked to. She calls a lot. Only takes a quick change and He said it was small change on the floor. Ringing hollow.=20 And doesn't take the work seriously. She must be lacking in intelligence. But Bartelby was a scrivener, Gov'nuh. She wasn't a theoretician. Couldn't change the spots on The Leopard and wouldn't bother. But, yes. They killed the old roan all the same.=20 That must be evident. Just read to the end of the chapter. And she sat and sits beneath the tree daily. The weight of letters=20 is enough to cripple her. They easily weigh eight tons if tons=20 had been translated into distance of sea.=20 One more than seven. Eight. The dedication of struggling. The dedication of admitting. The dedication of thieves. Is it possible that anyone cannot perceive the dedication of a bow? It needed no translation. The gesture is eloquent. In any language. Did she look inside the ashes? She wanders there still but cannot find the words for them. She never could. Does not know where to look for them or find them, if she did. That alone would cause the whole of you or some to give pause. Pause. Please. Just retract your claws for a minute. Sorrow? Does not begin to touch Dierdre behind the curtains. You haven't got a clue and you ain't seen nothing yet. No. You ain't. She shows it when and where she chooses. Sometimes she chooses not. And there is such as thing as trust. Which must be earned. And either you have earned it or There is more than one way to murder her There is the above. And what followed=20 him and follows still. No one would dream of trying to cover a Shetland mare with a sixteen hander. That is just cruelty. Poetry can be cruel. Part III - The Rueful Morgue and the rueful morgue with its sisters of mercy, sisters. never let it be said that something other than a word=20 or two or three in close succession can kill.=20 And perhaps one cannot ask the murderer to admit the murder or the torturer to allow the torture when=20 we allow it to continue. Chapter by Chapter. Twice Murdered?=20 Three times shy. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:13:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: SPT's 8th Annual Soiree & Auction this Sunday! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Figure Eight Small Press Traffic's Eighth Annual Literary Soiree and Auction Sunday November 10, 2002 from 2-7 p.m. $10 admission for a full day of SKATING ON THIN ICE at FIGURE EIGHT Not for nothing is the Bay Area, home of Kristi Yamaguchi and Brian Boitano.celebrated for its lavish ice spectacles. We won't be doing any skating at this year's soiree, but we'll be having a ball! Food * Music * Cash Bar--featuring the Triple Axel cocktail! * Celebrity Appearances * Raffle for Fabulous Prizes * Presentation of SPT's annual Book Awards, the best books of poetry published all of last year . . . and our 2002 Lifetime Achievement Award goes to Carl Rakosi (presentation, we don't expect Mr. Rakosi to attend). * Poets Theater Event CCAC SF Campus, 1111 - 8th Street, at Irwin (see our website for a map) SCHEDULE Soiree opens 2:00 p.m. Auction Preview 2:30--4:30 p.m. Presentation of Book Awards 4:00 p.m. Auction 4:30 p.m. Raffle drawing 6:00 p.m. Play 6:00 p.m. Continuous food, drink, entertainment and ersatz Olympic glamour DETAILS BELOW OUR NOTORIOUS ANNUAL AUCTION OF LITERARY MANUSCRIPTS, MEMENTOS, AUTOGRAPHS, SIGNED BROADSIDES, LETTERS, PHOTOS, ARTWORK AND EPHEMERA It's never been bigger, brighter or more exciting. Highlights of this year's auction include: JT Leroy, corrected typescript & galley proofs by the wunderkind author of SARAH and THE HEART IS DECEITFUL AMONG ALL THINGS, a writers never before represented at any auction Jacques Derrida, souvenirs from 2002 visit to San francisco 1963 San Francisco Poetry Festival broadsides MINT (Ginsberg, Blaser, Duncan, Lew Welch, Ferlinghetti, LaVigne, Jess, and many more) thanks to Donald Allen's generosity Shaun Cassidy, pop idol turned TV scenarist bigwig, signed pilot script Marianne Moore, TLS to Mademoiselle magazine Patti Smith, new photo, old poem, everything signed, just stunning Jack Spicer, rare "GOLEM" book courtesy of Granary Books Manuscript material, signed books et cetera, graphic works by-Edward Albee, Margaret Atwood, Bjork, Anne Carson, Helen Deutsch (rare 45), Christopher Fry, Jorie Graham, Gunter Grass, Thomas Harris, Fran Herndon, Robinson Jeffers, Jamaica Kincaid, David Larsen, Erin Moure, Eileen Myles, Laura (Riding) Jackson, Muriel Rukeyser, James Schuyler, WD Snodgrass, May Sinclair, Edith Sitwell, Muriel Spark, Tom Stoppard, Philip Whalen and literally too many more to mention! Come and gawk, come and bid, it's all for a good cause. Negotiate at "Figure Eight"! WORLD PREMIERE OF "FLAMINGO ROAD," A NEW PLAY BY KEVIN KILLIAN Post-slapstick, post-career, post Ricky Ricardo, an elderly Lucille Ball presides over her fabulous Miami estate, "Flamingo Road," where she has moved since it's only ninety miles from Cuba. Her father, Austrian surrealist Hugo Ball, has secret plans to legalize his union with Lucy's longtime companion, Ethel Mertz. Struggling with the meaning of life, Lucy decides to make a bold entry into the Guinness Book of World Records as the woman who did the most to end the Cold War. She'll stop at nothing, even fraud, so she finds herself interrogated by the Guinness secret police. Meanwhile her two grown children, Lucy Jr and Antonio Banderas, face romantic dilemmas of their own. It's a play about what it means to be an adult. To be human. And to be discovered hiding baby Elian Gonzalez in one's capacious, oversized closet. With Norma Cole, Kota Ezawa, Clifford Hengst, Scott Hewicker, Mac McGinnes, Karla Milosevich, Rex Ray, Laurie Reid, Jocelyn Saidenberg and Wayne Smith. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 - 8th Street San Francisco, California 94107 http://www.sptraffic.org 415-551-9278 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:13:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: seeking contact info...for Brydie McPherson... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks much! b/c of course. Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 - 8th Street San Francisco, California 94107 http://www.sptraffic.org 415-551-9278 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:32:36 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fence 10 and Fence Books Contests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Rebecca: I am just writing to see if Fence 10 is out yet - I had lost track. Sorry to bother you. I hope all's well. As Ever, Devin Johnston 2617 Louisiana Avenue Saint Louis MO 63118 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:54:35 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: Apologies... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies - please ignore my previous post, sent by accident. Thanks, DJ/Flood Editions ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:09:00 -0800 Reply-To: arshile@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Organization: Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts Subject: Hollo, Opstedal, Salerno Chapbooks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cyndee Wright/Mark Sanchez wrote: > Mark: > > It would be great if you could post this on the Buffalo List. > > Thanks. > > Cyndee Wright > > ***** > > NOW AVAILABLE — Limited Edition Chapbooks > > Anselm Hollo. The Guy in the Little Room. 18 pp. $5. > > Kevin Opstedal. Variable High Cloudiness. 21 pp. $5. > > Mark Salerno. Matters. 20 pp. $5. > > Shipping, handling and tax included. A very few signed and numbered > copies available. > > Make checks payable to Cyndee Wright. > > The Dozens Press > P.O. Box 448 > Santa Ynez, CA 93460-9110 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:39:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT interesting blog again as usual. too bad you don't have a mailing list? I note the use of the ambiguous "a-" but I don't know if perhaps it was intentionally ambiguous as it's difficult for me to imagine how writing can be either anti society or a (above or aloof) society in general rather than just particular elements of society? The reason I'm addressing this to the poetics list as well is in the hope that there still some life there. I was struck by your comments on Guest's abstract lyric. I see this as a potentially useful 'container' for a client looking to gain enough poetic chutzpah to express some feelings (Oh no, I know). I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this. tom bell m/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:49:38 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Witter Bynner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It sounds what I imagined so far of Witter Bynner...one of those strange characters who go their own way. I have only the one book. My information tells me he was involved in an "attack" on Pound and the Imagists. I found the book by accident Scott my friend have a kind of (probably unconscious "game" ) of "discovering" people (so he wouldnt like MY "discovery" !!)...Scott (my friend's buzz I suppose is to find somone who everyone (or many) thought was passe or who was "neglected" or some poet who writes an enormous book, or som eccentric (preferably with tragic circumstances): it leads/lead us into some interesting finds even in New Zealand. It can be a variety of "one-up-manship" but its better than lingering on life's eternal street corners. Thanks. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Berlow" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:37 AM Subject: Witter Bynner > On 4 Nov 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > > What do those who know of him or know his works do people think of = > > Witter Bynner? > > I went to St. John's College in Santa Fe and when I was there the > Witter Bynner house was used as off-campus housing. I never lived > there myself but went there a number of times. It was a beautiful large > rambling house with all sorts of nooks and crannies and various sheds > and additions, truly a work of art in itself. I think the college has since > sold it off, what a shame. I think Bynner gave it to the college since he > had no children. It was like the setting for a strange cult of poetics. I > also know he translated some ancient greek plays. > > > -- > Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:11:02 -0500 Reply-To: parrishka@sympatico.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: parrishka Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas Bell wrote: > interesting blog again as usual. too bad you don't have a mailing list? interesting comment, tom. begs the question, "why the blog?" a question i'd be interested to pose to ron now that he's been at it for a bit. one of the most charactertistic elements of the blog is the metablog content- a sign, i guess, of a young form. been waiting for some metablogging from ron- timing's about right in the life of the blog cycle. been wondering when blog fatigue will kick in. been wondering just ron eats for breakfast- where does he find the energy to post so frequently? what keeps silliman's blog so regular? so nutritional? > The reason I'm addressing this to the poetics list as well is in the hope > that there still some life there. and there's no comments function on ron's blog, so if you want to respond to the content publically, you must do so in a separate space. this is another question i've been itching to raise with ron. the comments function is such a standard blog feature that its omission glares, raises questions about how much feedback the author really wants. ron's frequent posts of portions of e-mail correspondance do undermine this monoblogue aura- though the blog's title reasserts its univocality. i've hesitated to post these questions here, largely because i find that listservs bring out the absolute worst in me. i cringe at the few traces i've left of myself here. the community that makes up @poetics is so dispersed- i feel that i'm always posting blindfolded- i suppose that creates some anxiety- that mixed with a certain lack of palpable consequence- an uncertainty about addressees- in the end, i barely recognize myself in my posts. i'm finding better conversations happening in the interblog zones these days than on listservs just generally. katherine http://www.meadow4.com/squish ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:23:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The reason I'm addressing this to the poetics list as well > is in the hope that there still some life there. No! life doesn't work here anymore Best, Johnny Chutzpah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bell" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:39 PM Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog > interesting blog again as usual. too bad you don't have a mailing list? I > note the use of the ambiguous "a-" but I don't know if perhaps it was > intentionally ambiguous as it's difficult for me to imagine how writing can > be either anti society or a (above or aloof) society in general rather than > just particular elements of society? > > The reason I'm addressing this to the poetics list as well is in the hope > that there still some life there. I was struck by your comments on Guest's > abstract lyric. I see this as a potentially useful 'container' for a client > looking to gain enough poetic chutzpah to express some feelings (Oh no, I > know). I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this. > > tom bell > m/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:36:55 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, what do you plural all think of this statement on the Blog? "one sees quickly that Barbara Guest has become the single most powerful influence on new writing by women in the U.S. " Chris Ron wrote: > David Bromige's path to language > > Barbara Guest & the abstract lyric > > The role of critical writing within langpo > > Louis Cabri, Tom Orange & Kevin Davies > on the Canadian poetry / New York School question > > Influencing the dead: > the impact of Brian Kim Stefans & Araki Yasusada on Jack Spicer > > The problem of time in literary formations: > Spicer's view of poetry in 1958 vs.1965 > > Poetic prose: a map of the subgenres > > Canadian poetry = New American Poetry minus the NY School. Why? > > The quotidian in poetry - it's not adjunct to the work > > Narrative Drive: what is it? > > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:15:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog Comments: To: parrishka@sympatico.ca MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT one of the problems with blogs and metablogs and metamaetablogs for me though is hat they tend to perpetuate the inwardly-impelled trned to closed thought circuitry I think has been growing for awhile on the internet.fewer and fewer people discuss a smaller list of topics and there is a certain approved list of people that everyone knows better and better. I think this goes beyond typical academic closed-shop-minded thinking but just may be partof the way people are? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:18:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed ><of this statement on the Blog? > >"one sees quickly that Barbara Guest has become the single most powerfu >influence on new writing by women in the U.S. "l>> thankfully, i think the days of "single most powerful influence" on *any writing in the US are long gone. We are post-single-most. Nuther issue: if by "writing" Ron here doesn't merely mean poetry, i don't think it too harsh to call the statement a bit rash, sorry ron. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:18:50 -0500 Reply-To: parrishka@sympatico.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: parrishka Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit actually, my experience of blogging has been the exact opposite. in blogging's early history, this was a greater problem- the A-lister circle jerk, the "cross-referential bunch of obsessives," as one blogger put it. i've found that even in the past year, this situation has dramatically altered, as the number of bloggers and blogging sub-cultures has expanded and diversified. it feels as though the trend is expansive. i do actually look forward to more metablogging as people who have done more thinking about the writing subject and the public performance of text engage the form. there's still a heck of a lot more to be said. k. Thomas Bell wrote: > one of the problems with blogs and metablogs and metamaetablogs for me > though is hat they tend to perpetuate the inwardly-impelled trned to closed > thought circuitry I think has been growing for awhile on the internet.fewer > and fewer people discuss a smaller list of topics and there is a certain > approved list of people that everyone knows better and better. I think this > goes beyond typical academic closed-shop-minded thinking but just may be > partof the way people are? > > tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:19:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: new work and README.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII new work at http://www.asondheim.org/portal over-18 please 0.README.txt at end: more work forthcoming 0.README.txt 3.jpg 37.jpg 41.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg MI3.AVI MI4.AVI b2s.mov burlings.mov face7.jpg face8.gif flesh.swf insert.jpg leg.jpg life.mov look2.jpg mi5.avi mirror3.jpg mmau.mov more1.jpg more2.jpg more3.jpg more4.jpg more5.jpg more6.jpg mov.txt movie.txt nipple.jpg nude.jpg nude2.jpg other00.JPG other01.JPG other02.JPG other03.JPG other04.JPG other05.JPG other06.JPG other07.JPG other08.JPG other09.JPG other10.JPG other11.JPG red.mov seam1.jpg seam2.jpg seam3.jpg seam4.jpg seam5.jpg skein01.jpg skein02.jpg skein03.jpg skein04.jpg skein05.jpg skein06.jpg skein07.jpg skein08.jpg skein09.jpg skein10.jpg terror00.mov terror01.mov terror02.mov theory1.jpg theory2.jpg theory3.jpg theory4.jpg theory5.jpg theory6.jpg theory7.jpg theory8.jpg torso.jpg torso0.jpg torso1.jpg torso2.jpg tub2.jpg tub5.jpg tub6.jpg tub7.jpg tub8.jpg urn8.jpg README.txt: These files are remnants, residue, of larger works such as Trilby, 35 minutes in length. The still images are used in video; the .mov files are chained together, modified; sound is added. We collude between death and sex, to the limits of distortion - space-time burns around configurations of terror and the body. The skin is always a skein of communication. Words are performative only to the extent they can persuade physical reality beyond the sememe - propaganda or persuasion of language. Sexuality, body, language, create a matrix of interpenetrations, an almost impossible separation of interior and exterior. Space inflates, the temporal dimension shudders, reverses, cycles, escapes. The background of the work is in http://www.asondheim.org/index.html - the Internet Text, which continues to be build. New files will be added here from time to time and cdroms are available. Alan Sondheim and Azure Carter, sondheim@panix.com === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:11:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K. Silem Mohammad" Subject: Abstract Lyric In-Reply-To: <3DC72EC8.571F8EC3@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 11/4/02 6:36 PM, Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino at cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > So, what do you plural all think of this statement on the Blog? > > "one sees quickly that Barbara Guest has become the single most powerful > influence on new writing by women in the U.S. " I thought as soon as I read this that it was a controversial claim, to say the least. Certainly she's *one* of the most influential. But what about Lyn Hejinian, Carla Harryman, Rae Armantrout, Jorie Graham, Sharon Olds, Adrienne Rich, Lucille Clifton, Susan Howe, and at least a dozen others I could probably list off the top of my head? Obviously these are writers who cover a wide spectrum of different schools and approaches, not all of whom we all will admire equally, and maybe we're dealing with very specific definitions of "powerful" and/or "new writing," but certainly the existing population of younger women poets, even if we limit it to "experimental" communities, is by no means a uniform mass of Guest-imitators. For that matter, a lot of male poets (including myself) have been influenced by Guest as well, and a lot of male poets have influenced women writers. As a matter of fact, I have some problems with the piece on abstract lyric as a whole. (Ron, just for the record, I think your blog is a great thing--not least because I frequently find myself disagreeing with you in ways that stimulate my own thought.) To start with, the very notion that "it is in the poetry of Barbara Guest that the form really comes into focus" begs a lot of questions. Was it not in focus in the work of Wallace Stevens, for example? Ron (or others), would you even consider Stevens an abstract lyricist? Hart Crane? H.D.? Dickinson? Etc.? Why or why not? Ron, you define the A.L. as "a poem that functions *as a lyric*, bounded by modest scale and focused on the elements within." The italicized phrase seems to explain only circularly. Do you mean that it functions primarily on the level of music (as opposed to, say, logical argument)? This would eliminate a lot of reflective, philosophical work that nevertheless strikes me as "lyric" (e.g., Keats). Do you mean simply that it is relatively short (which seems to be covered by "modest scale")? In what sense is A.L. any more "focused on the elements within" than other kinds of lyric or poetry in general? The examples you give are often examples of compact syllabic patterning, consonance, and so forth; are these the "elements within"? Do you mean that the A.L. isolates these elements as material language over against their function as units of sense? Again, isn't this true of a lot of other poetry as well: that it foregrounds the signifier? I'll accept that "not all short poems are lyrics," but in what sense is Rae Armantrout's poetry "only incidentally lyrical, if that"? This claim, more perhaps than any other you make, bewilders me. "Lyric in her case," you write, "is a feint or strategy, but is very seldom what is actually going on within the poem." I'm fascinated by the idea of lyric as a "feint"--the notion that lyrical effects can be randomly simulated or hastily approximated rather than meticulously orchestrated, and that it might nevertheless be very difficult for the reader to tell the difference. But how, then, is it possible to tell when lyric is *not* a feint? When is it "what is actually going on" as opposed to something that is ... what? *Not* going on? Then how can it be perceived as a "strategy" or anything else? I don't have _Veil_ in front of me, but when I picture a page of it from memory, "lyric" is one of the first terms that comes to mind, and elegant, graceful lyric at that. Have I been *fooled* in some way? You provide a possible clue when you say that in comparison to Armantrout's poems, Guest's are "as closed as sonnets." The implied distinction here is one between an "open," and therefore non-lyric, poetic, and a "closed," or rule-based(?) one. But can this possibly be right? Do we really want to say that intuitive, "pattern-free" (if patternlessness is ever possible) composition can never count as lyric, or at least not as "abstract lyric"? You compare Guest's poetry to Clark Coolidge's: "where Coolidge's works revel in the sometimes raucous prosody of his intensely inventive ear, Guest's return the reader again & again to the word and its integration into a phrase, to a phrase and its integration into a line, to a line and its integration into a stanza or strophe." You go on to give some examples of this multi-level integration in Guest, and oddly enough, the first thing that came to my mind was a very methodologically similar recent reading by Tom Orange of Coolidge's "Ounce Code Orange." (Once more, I don't have the reference or a reliable memory handy--Tom's piece is in either _New American Writing_ or _Jacket_ or both, and it's a great essay, despite my vague skepticism regarding this particular mode of close reading, which I too indulge in from time to time.) I won't quote at length, but I encourage everyone to visit Ron's blog and decide for themselves whether the syllable-counting in question can really yield the kinds of aesthetic evidence that Ron claims for it. I won't deny that the lines do exhibit an admirable balance and sense of sonic precision that has something to do with syllabic disposition, but I'm not yet convinced that it's a balance or precision that can be explicated via quantification--that there is a substantive difference, in terms of what can be materially demonstrated through structural analysis, between Coolidge's "raucous prosody" and Guest's "instinct for balance and closure." The differentiating element here would seem to have to amount to either intention or instinct, and if it is the latter, as this last quote would suggest, the line is thin indeed between Coolidge's reveling and Guest's integrating. I've belabored this at such length not just because I'm ornery (tho I am one ornery cuss), but because this is something I'm wrestling with a lot myself at present. So thank you, Ron, for the blog in general, and in particular for this opportunity to flex my thinking-fingers on the question of lyric "authenticity" vs whatever the opposite of such authenticity is. --Kasey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:22:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Summi Kaipa Subject: Interlope hits NYC! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The First East Coast Reading of Interlope Magazine with a special celebration of the most recently release issue Interlope #8 on Filipino/a American writers, guest edited by Eileen Tabios Readings by contributors to issue #8 as well as by past contributors Tina Celona Veronica Corpuz Sarah Gambito Paolo Javier Christina Querrer Prageeta Sharma Eileen Tabios Editor and Publisher, Summi Kaipa, will be in attendance to introduce the event. The details: Tuesday, November 12 6:00-8:00pm A/P/A Studies Program & Institute Gallery, NYU 269 Mercer Street, suite 609 FREE ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:14:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thomas Bell wrote: > The reason I'm addressing this to the poetics list as well is in the hope that there still some life there. < parrishka wrote: > begs the question, "why the blog?" . . . questions about how much feedback the author really wants . . . univocality < At first, when some List members began advertising their "blogs" (---I think that very few have actually announced them on this List: basically, Brian Kim Stefans, Lewis LaCook, and, with a vengence, Ron Silliman, to my memory---), it reminded me of Foucault's ~Technologies of Self,~ as if that book had predicted this. In short, what ~Technologies~ says is that the two main forms by which the West built up (the illusion of) Self and the subject, how the West invented subjectivity, was through letter-writing and diary-keeping. Having been through a letter-writing phase (for a short seven years ---since March 1994? The new List interface no longer sub-divides into Archives and Early Archives), for mysterious reasons the List atrophies and "bloggers" begin to spawn off of it. Is it that the preliminary exercise of having practiced Self through a communal letter-writing mode has nurtured a sufficient basis of Self for them to individuate off (as though "blogging" paralleled the maturational phase away from family)? Is it simple technophilia, and that yesteryear's list craze has faddishly given way to the new "blog" tech, so that the nomads will follow the next technology thereafter, in turn? Is it a "sinking boat" phenomenon, whereby the weak-of-stomach simply cannot tolerate the List decay any further and go off on their life rafts? Eulogies might be in order. Have List-productive periods tended to depend on crops of graduate students who cluster amongst themselves in their responses, so that such academics "outgrow" their pupal List phase as the encroaching responsibilities of their new job placements narrow or channel their freedom of expression, no longer at liberty to ad-lib spontaneously,--- and that any yet-to-be-seen periods of communal poetics must await the gradual and accidental reconfiguration of a new crop? (How much of the now rarely seen List Stats records the vestiges of defunct e-mail accounts in its tally?) Oddly, the years when posts were screened by a monitor (Chris, etc.), delayed in queue, and occasionally "censored" were more productive to discussion than the recent stage of effectively unmonitored twice-a-day posting. Is it 9/11 Syndrome? The List and other List members have been a means-to-an-end for many, and, having attained those ends, they jettison the means that helped them there? Has the Buffalo List ~exhausted its potential member pool,~ so that there ~are~ no more poetry experimentalists out there who have not passed through its machinations, and these are the sum total boundaries of the experimentalist population that we are watching reach its collective limits? Is it true that "bad money drives the good money out"? Is it merely coincidental that the increase of blog announcements happens at the same time as the unprecedented increase of daily poem-posting? ---But, today, the buzz-word "alienation" is more on my mind, and I'm more inclined to see alienation written all over the face of the neo-"blog"-ism. (...as if on Hannah Weiner's forehead: ALEINATION.) Very simply, a shift from mediated one-to-one e-communication to the sort of "sound-proof booth" modality of blog is sort of self-evidently alienation, a shift from dialogue and discussion to monologue and soliloquy. Even so, the blog announcements themselves take on interesting hallmarks of "spammers," too: Ron's latest, for example, was not confined to the Poetics List, but has cc's to new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, WOM-PO@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, and BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK. ---Which introduces questions of the imagined/desired audience and, basically, that Society of the Spectacle wins out, yet again: anything that increases a disequilibrium toward a state of spectators and "star" has the greater magnetism, over time. There were times when fevered disagreement set in on-List about whether "poem-spamming" and "advertisements" should be channeled off into a separate sub-list and the List kept exclusively for discussion. Ironically, that argument has concluded itself ~post facto,~ where the advertisements remain and the medium for discussion may have extinguished itself. As said in the Geert Lovink quote that Lewis LaCook posted, 10/31/02: "With the current corporate take-over of the Net, one can expect that the publishing activities will change. . . . The Net itself will be a publication tool, to announce new products, fashions, ideas, in short, a new medium to manipulate people. The interactive, democratic part will very soon become a mere marginal aspect of the whole business. It will lose its innovative and subversive part and will become deadly boring. . . . The question is: do you have enough power to go for the second round, to start all over again, each time, after the net orgy will be over, to start again . . ." http://www.lyricscafe.com/m/midler_bette/bettemidler_8.html [and turn on your speakers for sound clips at---] Bette Midler: http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1040966&cc=USD #4 Marianne Faithful: http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1176307&cc=USD # 14 Patti Lupone: http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1038588&cc=USD # 11 Lotte Lenya: http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1188857&cc=USD __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 01:39:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: ROBIN STEELE CAPPUCCINO #0020 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AFTERHOURS LITERATI CAFE ROBIN STEELE CAPPUCCINO #0020 (excerpt) www.afterhours-literati-cafe noir yellow robe instruct first teachings duties mahjoub reza irvine fund administered grants kind states safe lipstick match girl blond earth wore shaggy style breath combines again lollypop poor boy shock muscles locked kind rigor styles barley roamed speak permission little hint one joined kate water fed sight sly grin always sight romantic calming mahmood talat site maintained artist son includes searching timidness govinda now sensing gaze opened over pictures memories song lists mahones family answered become sexual mentor few celtic-rock initiative give grants states quality standards-based includes biography state include sight weight maggie poll links owe sufferings succumbed door want speak catherine bed? initiative give grants states quality standards-based apply judge time together sitting incommunicado arbitrary happened fall malcolm produced card instantly received instructions washington based relieve heaviness heart tell something story? pop duo lipstick match girl blond earth wore shaggy style breath strengthened prointegration militia systematically forced relocation east three aware now now erection pressing young mound sure feel sure initiative give grants states quality standards-based mamma storm continued dine pension featured superpickle skipole tongue tight slit fingered clit drove nipple mouth sucked zealand held highest honour woman attain? rock initiative give grants states quality standards-based cried judge easily frightened site includes lived courts law wish give sound malcolm produced card instantly received instructions bio discography pictures mainely well thought figures brake equally middle nowhere pouring rain canoe schedule setlists strengthened vocal trio maine mainvain initiative give grants states quality standards-based tampa opened scarf discovery fingers read journal florida maitland ear eyes looked julia brightest blue eyes thomas learning services initiative release year sexual initiative give grants states quality standards-based come mind because wholly absorbed being naturally seasick call anything wrong maitre ka-fu kept looking see florida well perfecting others being wanted reflections happened fall illegal entry release detention women gave birth abandoned songs mp3 maja siddhartha went kamaswami merchant directed rich grow high trees clearly saw being served food initiative give grants states quality standards-based mid michigan discography biography majagaer space sedate voice being tinge fucking father rock initiative give grants states quality standards-based tongue tight slit fingered clit drove nipple mouth sucked servants export sometimes abused held against recruiting paralyzed poor miserable creature profiles initiative give grants states quality standards-based searching timidness govinda now sensing gaze opened show dates photos website argentinian initiative give grants states quality standards-based door suddenly flew light palmer shift door neighbor walked spanish conversed one point something skin case peace repair arrive welfare facilities disabled citizens firms employees singing mariners england knee dates happened fall featuring singer mckenzie killed wild attempting leave country authorities told free siddhartha went kamaswami merchant directed rich grow high trees clearly saw being served food normally release release suspects days certain indictment issued rock anastasius johannes georgius ambassador infidel empress irene climb charlotte site includes gig dates killed wild attempting leave country authorities told free wet pussy driver grown know generate well three pop rock anastasius joha --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:52:16 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog Comments: To: parrishka@sympatico.ca In-Reply-To: <3DC728B5.7927AEB2@sympatico.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hiya, a blog creates a more formal and editorially controlled site. Blogs are kind of fiefdoms against the commons of the lists? More like the boundaries of a private house than a playground or the projects. A blog permits its authorial persona to be seen to be porous only to that which somehow serves or services its interests. Who is being listened to? With whom is there any transgredience? It's level of activity becomes a flag of engagement. A blog writer has no limit on how many times they post. They can prompt threads by intervening into list flow with impunity. They dont have to mess up a list with formatting aches or attachments - it offers measures of control against the noise with which melody and rhythm on the lists are entwined. interesting though love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 06:44:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: blogs, blobs and bogs of reason Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" aren't blogs semi-intentional communities, tho, requiring at least a click, as opposed to the defensive and reactionary delete-by-nature tacit complicity of a list-serv? anyhow, i'm trying to tunnel my way out. it's not really my thing and is "not available" (ahem) but this audio lecture might be of interest to some on the list: derrida on "the principle of reason and the idea of the university" (1983) a version of which reprinted in diacritics, i believe. Does anyone know if this was ever included in a book? http://www.factoryschool.org/content/vox/derrida/derrida.ram -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 02:35:20 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog dont Blog the Log MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that Blogs are Blogs: the reason is that if a a rose is a rose etc then as words can (theoretically) be interchanged) a blog is a blog. A blog could be a dog in the bog. But NOT a log. It could be a log but then not a dog....and when is a dog a dog? When its neither god or in a bog. You can DO logs but bogs you cant: these days logs arent used except if a mathematician was stick in a bog without his Flog or his Glog. But dont flog the dog or plog the glogg: if you must blog then slog. that's what I clog. Clog flog dog grog and ogg. ogg log sog gog to mog if prog and sog: soggy log. Now if. Now if Blog to Bllog ther glog blog. Now tog. If tog not scog. why not scog. Krog. if kkrog then splog nad frog: if frog jump over dog. if mog then quog: qig quog: quickly keep and keeel over. Thery ow mind the Blog people: plog them. o i wish slog. I bb blog and drog. then scog and who who flog and blog blog blog was gog but pog pog not log can log dog nog no nog nog bog go fog gog mog Thank you, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "cris cheek" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 10:52 PM Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog > Hiya, > > a blog creates a more formal and editorially controlled site. Blogs are kind > of fiefdoms against the commons of the lists? More like the boundaries of a > private house than a playground or the projects. A blog permits its > authorial persona to be seen to be porous only to that which somehow serves > or services its interests. Who is being listened to? With whom is there any > transgredience? It's level of activity becomes a flag of engagement. A blog > writer has no limit on how many times they post. They can prompt threads by > intervening into list flow with impunity. They dont have to mess up a list > with formatting aches or attachments - it offers measures of control > against the noise with which melody and rhythm on the lists are entwined. > > interesting though > > love and love > cris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:35:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: William Carlos Williams, "Election Day" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Election Day Warm sun, quiet air an old man sits in the doorway of a broken house-- boards for windows plaster falling from between the stones and strokes the head of a spotted dog. --William Carlos Williams fr. *The Collected Poems of William Carlos Williams: Vol. II, 1939-1962* Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:51:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: blogs, blobs and bogs of reason In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, November 5, 2002, at 06:44 AM, J. Kuszai wrote: > > it's not really my thing and is "not available" (ahem) > but this audio lecture might be of interest to some on the list: > derrida on "the principle of reason and the idea of the university" > (1983) a version of which reprinted in diacritics, i believe. Does > anyone know if this was ever included in a book? > yes, it came out as "The University without Condition" in _Without=20 Alibi_, edited & translated by Peggy Kamuff, Meridian Series, Stanford=20= UP, 2002. Thinking about Jeffrey's & others' postings on blog vs. list, I had the=20= sense that there was less use in making value distinctions between the=20= various forms as in trying to see them as additive -- a rhizome of=20 lists, blogs, personal sites, institutional sites (such as epc), data=20 sites for text (most of -- at least -- english-language traditional=20 literature is up & available in cyberspace), sound & visuals, etc. So the thinking should not be so much about which ones are better or=20 even how they are different, but rather on how to invent moves =20 _between_ these various spaces -- my sense here is of a nomadic,=20 open-ended movement or of a situationist _d=E9rive_ with, obviously, the=20= specificity of the movements having to be reinvented in relation to=20 these new spaces. Essential, however, to keep the multiplicity of=20 possible places, events & interventions in mind -- rather than pitching=20= one against the other. Pierre ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:27:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: i pixel Comments: To: webartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/imagework/i_drag.jpg Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:24:50 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog dont Blog the Log In-Reply-To: <000f01c284d0$3046b740$0e7e37d2@01397384> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit But flog and blog boogie blog was don't flog the dog or plug the bog. You CAN do logs but sooner hog dog and keel over. The jog mind fogs the bogs you cant: these days cogs Blog people: log bugs. Tactics differ from but ape antics. Prefer semantics, write tictacs and refer to frame. Frantic claim ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:21:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: women in The New American Poetry In-Reply-To: <200210312136.g9VLaSg16754@trollope.concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >the hideously titled (and > >Jones/Baraka edited) _Four Young Lady Poets_ . . . > >But don't that title say it all? > > That's nothing compared to the parodies of that title that Ed Sanders > used to emit. And what parodies were those? No fair holding out on us, George. It's election day and Richard Nixon is perched on my shoulder. Glowering. You can always leave blank spaces in the middles of words, you know. Funny, I just saw Ed Sanders on film for half a second in Jonas Mekas's "Scenes from the Life of Andy Warhol." To watch the movie, you'd think Andy spent half his life with Princess Lee Radziwill. When he wasn't tying Jade Jagger's shoes. What was Princess Lee princess of, anyway? Rachel, marchioness of Tyntagelle. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:22:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Poems by others: William Carlos Williams, "Election Day" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit poem early and often! Gerald Schwartz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:35 AM Subject: Poems by others: William Carlos Williams, "Election Day" > Election Day > > Warm sun, quiet air > an old man sits > > in the doorway of > a broken house-- > > boards for windows > plaster falling > > from between the stones > and strokes the head > > of a spotted dog. > > --William Carlos Williams > > fr. *The Collected Poems of William > Carlos Williams: Vol. II, 1939-1962* > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:09:29 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: derrida text In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Greetings voters, My library has yet to receive _Without Alibi_ and I couldn't find the Diacritics article with an MLA search. Could someone please backchannel me the journal coordinates? thanks, kevin hehir On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Pierre Joris wrote: > > derrida on "the principle of reason and the idea of the university" > > (1983) a version of which reprinted in diacritics, i believe. Does > yes, it came out as "The University without Condition" in _Without > Alibi_, edited & translated by Peggy Kamuff, Meridian Series, Stanford > UP, 2002. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:15:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: voting day In-Reply-To: <140.1dc3e6e.2af6dcb4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable voting day in moist permissions long spaces are filled and refilled with optional devices and attachments thick as insomnia and powdered music afloat in stock jokes I avert my eyes to the slippery dumbfoundedness lines meander over a ricochet someplace I slouch in inner intention look for the: Voice of thought . . . Voice of joy . . . Voice of touch . . . Voice of terror . . . see only soi-disant edgewise axioms drunken in gyroscope hand puppets and an ashtray full of beer soaked chewing tobacco a paralanguage is stuck in sapir-whorf=92s hypothesis: the bleep right any time willy-nilly any place raw oodles of or extra=20= three mumbo jumbo higgledy--piggledy free tweedledee premature=20 anytime doohickey whenever immediate lardy-dardy prepaid babble=20 tropical harum-scarum moving malarkey what you are dial up delirium =20= anytime wishy-washy restraints yakety-yak clamps escape hysteria=20 pleasure grade gaga winner prepaid twitter best offer boner fresh=20 start patchwork the new you hiphop happy bugaboo holiday switcheroo=20 best of hokey-pokey a new you call now 1900-masquerade= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:18:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sudden Syndrome Present us with the Clap, we'll give you footholds into subjective categories While waiting for the Klonopin to kick in and Wear off Receptors fire to the Musak and marble While the slow intercourse of true Lovers powers the village Throughout winter Cop a transcending Feel, Peel slowly and look at the neon pink of bananas, that Represents my Affection on the move Paradigms that bluster into Foggy dew, emergency Brake, fractures of Past infatuations Collect the kill fee for Your recent voicings Which Becomes the money worth Fretting about Dig a hole and a savings Account to process your *Billions* I was wondering whatever happened to our scrotums holidays that go undeserved and Unobserved, dry heaving When we should be Apart and in the Dark You've become a love poet or a Zebra hold fast to your Glee Please wake me when you Go _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:23:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Scenes from a less beloved diner I'm obsessed with the Pathetic effigies of the Past, crowing In praise of motherfuckers and Deviants of every color The pitch is a message sent to an Earflap Wrap a bandage Around my head and I'm good to go through red lights and barreling into Crime Scenes Our favorite inner city stories have come Back to pop Us Take a photo, it'll last Until Easter then off to the races to pick up Thoroughbreds Ever deny the crazy their Due Whether high-sticking or Flopping to the ice, your time in the Box hurts the cause, but is terrific for flowers and Greeting cards I will not translate from the Dutch Or be held responsible for Stealing If you can't follow the Logic rest Up and Let the game come to You Inside engines and calculators the truth is Getting more Restless _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 05:56:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: teddy Subject: MIRA COLE EXPRESSO #0012 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AFTERHOURS LITERATI CAFE MIRA COLE EXPRESSO #0012 (excerpt) www.afterhours-literati-cafe.com religion at home the globe federal state and local are noggin noggin has been who knows may happen short time gains? and children age certain types family law closed bracken breast high school house among crouched improvised since nogoodnix some of impudent grandchild take liberties who ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my out chico it is time this room want to know perhaps life has only happiness happy swedish drew chair side take granted fear reason may fled find ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my baghdad entered gold image prosecutors judges president appoints chief justice most discography song clips photos gig dates reviews and links seduction electronic way question extraordinary? fear reason may fled find days married recognizing young virgin child from long on its bank were drawn up annie adventure that continues to of website showcases bio pictures and poised year my hands creep up along finger do enjoy nice well songs and remixes with some leave of my sweetheart we still wondered if could not for take hands away worry daddy began can much like good downloads therapy saw boy sitting bench talking loudly cell phone heard mom website for the way honor nation confers right driving killer grooving ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my with biographies tour dates and baghdad entered gold nok boston based ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my with drew chair side take granted and hardcore influences biography baghdad entered gold sample tour dates and nolan brendan habit sewing buttons yourself? folksinger and now amendment prosecution only needs prove prima facie case appearing insides thighs grandad thumb last found pussy lips outside the tampa national park service of needed federal king family the authoritarian actively persecute those who seek to imprisoning nolan clive progressive fear reason may fled find constitution provides citizens right rest including paid for since the providers have experienced an number of new patients shadowland strangers train become about as close as it the juices of her cunt would of pendragon and nolan and wakeman site has either closed door tightly servant entering his projects photos discography law governing labor disputes recognizes right unions strike paused thinking marriage now marriage and song clips the baby girl come back to the prescription drugs very fear reason may fled find way question extraordinary? blues ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my that currently rocking out shows all across the metropolitan authoritarian actively persecute those who seek to imprisoning nomadic expands cities to cities today initiative crack down on seine marne mind wandered where mistress the fear reason may fled find ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my nomadik soulz abul asal wandering dervish hither remind kings either closed door tightly servant entering weary? baghdad entered gold and seine marne mind wandered where mistress the days married recognizing young virgin child taking the underground seen draw curtains tried think scene storm no-gentlemen ordered boats saved lives saw boy sitting bench talking loudly cell phone heard mom homepage no- gentlemen ordered boats saved lives nomotiv saw boy sitting bench talking loudly cell phone heard mom site for ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my nomotiv saw boy sitting bench talking loudly cell phone heard mom site for the hong kong ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my includes biography and pictures the father the saw boy sitting bench talking loudly cell phone heard mom site getting seductive that my mind makes it assure you that my impudent grandchild take liberties who baby girl come back to the prescription drugs very ripe maize of the tribe the need to come she cupped begin my from northwest ohio see pictures show dates and er --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:52:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: women in The New American Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rachel asks what country was Lee Radzwill Princess of. The Principality lies between the Czech Republic and Poland, a small area of land with an interesting history. An early ruler, Max the Equivocator, who spoke English with a thick MitttelEuropean accent,was being pressured by Prussia to throw in his lot with that Power. His ministers urged against this. After decades of deliberation, Max sprang to his feet and cried, in English, "Rats, I will!" He then fell into a coma and died, without revealing what it was he would--preserve the Principality's independence, ot fuse with Prussia? Max, a notorious bugger, left no issue, but his sister's son, Lem the Latherer,seized the throne and rallied his countrymen to its defense. Alrhough small in population, the Principality was surrounded by high mountains on all sides,and was without apparent resources--the people lived by dirt-scrabble farming, augmented by the sale of home-brewed alcoholic beverages. The Principality has long since been absorbed by its neighbors and turned into one of the primary ski-resorts of central Europe. This happened after the Blue Danube Railroad Company tunneled through and laid track snd built the spectacular bridge known among the locals as "The Maybe Bridge" (it was expected to collapse, but so far hasn't) thereby knitting Prussia, Poland and Czechoslovakia into a single region. The title of Princess Radziwill outlived its country's sbsorption, and all persons such as yourself, Rachel, who have an interest in these matters, (and God knows I am one of them!) hope that the "Rats-I-wills" will bw around for as long as the ski-resorts bring in enough cash to keep the castle in good shape and the the Princesses shapely. Hope this helps, David -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Loden To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:21 AM Subject: Re: women in The New American Poetry >> >the hideously titled (and >> >Jones/Baraka edited) _Four Young Lady Poets_ . . . > >> >But don't that title say it all? >> >> That's nothing compared to the parodies of that title that Ed Sanders >> used to emit. > >And what parodies were those? No fair holding out on us, George. It's >election day and Richard Nixon is perched on my shoulder. Glowering. > >You can always leave blank spaces in the middles of words, you know. > >Funny, I just saw Ed Sanders on film for half a second in Jonas Mekas's >"Scenes from the Life of Andy Warhol." To watch the movie, you'd think >Andy spent half his life with Princess Lee Radziwill. When he wasn't >tying Jade Jagger's shoes. > >What was Princess Lee princess of, anyway? > >Rachel, marchioness of Tyntagelle. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:53:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Molly Schwartzburg Subject: Pound citation question In-Reply-To: <002401c28526$707d3360$d996ccd1@CeceliaBelle> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks to anyone who can tell me where Pound says... "Not source materials, but relevant" ...and if that phrasing is correct. Thanks, Molly Schwartzburg ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:03:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: Re: derrida text In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" tompkins county may have just elected a sheriff from the green party I'll save a yard sign just in case the dream is over Kevin- if you havn't heard by then, I'll send you the ref. to the Diacritics, but it would have been in 83 or 84... jk >Greetings voters, > >My library has yet to receive _Without Alibi_ and I couldn't find the >Diacritics article with an MLA search. Could someone please backchannel me >the journal coordinates? > >thanks, >kevin hehir > > >On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Pierre Joris wrote: >> > derrida on "the principle of reason and the idea of the university" >> > (1983) a version of which reprinted in diacritics, i believe. Does > >> yes, it came out as "The University without Condition" in _Without >> Alibi_, edited & translated by Peggy Kamuff, Meridian Series, Stanford >> UP, 2002. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:05:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: Canessa Park 11/17/02 London/Selland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Canessa Park Reading Series 708 Montgomery Street @ Columbus San Francisco, CA Admission $5 Sunday November 17th, 2002 5 pm Rick London & Eric Selland Rick London lives in San Francisco. His publications include Dreaming Close By (O Books) and several chapbooks, most recently Picture With Moving Parts (Doorjamb Press). He is currently co-editing "Enough" with Leslie Scalapino, an anthology of new writing in response to the political and military fallout following the attacks of 9/11, due out early in 2003. from "going away" rarely touching the ground and easing other conditions of time: naming, the sequence of naming, of breath removing both legs to inspect the elements of walking and other routines lodged in animal fiber and the eye moving, one thing revealed, another forgotten Eric Selland is the author of The Condition of Music on Sink Press. Recent work has appeared in Untitled and First Intensity. Eric is also known as a translator of Japanese poetry. Some of these can be found on the Duration Press website. Eric now lives in Belmont CA (next to San Mateo) where he works as a translator of Japanese technical documentation. from "Arc Tangent" The way into questioning In the library of images The steps A sense of stillness Desire for stillness Clay figures Surrounding the room The flowers and shrubs Are silent The lyric exfoliation of identity Is the hurt named Numbing Numbering the years Stopped in at the fish market for a bite and there was M. sitting in a far corner of the room, her appearance essentially unchanged from the last time I saw her twenty years ago. What does the eye see? The majority of functional memory hidden somewhere below the surface. Hope to see you there, Avery E. D. Burns Literary Director Canessa Park __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:01:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Radziwell In-Reply-To: <002401c28526$707d3360$d996ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Rachel asks what country was Lee Radzwill Princess of. The Principality lies >between the Czech Republic and Poland, a small area of land with an >interesting history. An early ruler, Max the Equivocator, who spoke English >with a thick MitttelEuropean accent,was being pressured by Prussia to throw >in his lot with that Power. His ministers urged against this. After decades >of deliberation, Max sprang to his feet and cried, in English, "Rats, I >will!" He then fell into a coma and died, without revealing what it was he >would--preserve the Principality's independence, ot fuse with Prussia? > Max, a notorious bugger, left no issue, but his sister's son, Lem >the Latherer,seized the throne and rallied his countrymen to its defense. >Alrhough small in population, the Principality was surrounded by high >mountains on all sides,and was without apparent resources--the people lived >by dirt-scrabble farming, augmented by the sale of home-brewed alcoholic >beverages. > The Principality has long since been absorbed by its neighbors and >turned into one of the primary ski-resorts of central Europe. This happened >after the Blue Danube Railroad Company tunneled through and laid track snd >built the spectacular bridge known among the locals as "The Maybe Bridge" >(it was expected to collapse, but so far hasn't) thereby knitting Prussia, >Poland and Czechoslovakia into a single region. The title of Princess >Radziwill outlived its country's sbsorption, and all persons such as >yourself, Rachel, who have an interest in these matters, (and God knows I am >one of them!) hope that the "Rats-I-wills" will bw around for as long as the >ski-resorts bring in enough cash to keep the castle in good shape and the >the Princesses shapely. Hope this helps, David > > David is, as always, far too modest and humble. I guess it is left to me to inform one and all about the name of the principality before Max's expostulation. It was yclept Bromigenstein, after one of the lowest mountains in the vicinity, and was known for the wild canaries that flitted about the basin during the summer months. Many of the northern Bromigensteinians mistook these lovely birds for large butterflies and netted them for the purpose of diet supplementation. But that is another story. > > >>> >the hideously titled (and >>> >Jones/Baraka edited) _Four Young Lady Poets_ . . . >> >>> >But don't that title say it all? >>> >>> That's nothing compared to the parodies of that title that Ed Sanders >>> used to emit. >> >>And what parodies were those? No fair holding out on us, George. It's >>election day and Richard Nixon is perched on my shoulder. Glowering. >> >>You can always leave blank spaces in the middles of words, you know. >> >>Funny, I just saw Ed Sanders on film for half a second in Jonas Mekas's >>"Scenes from the Life of Andy Warhol." To watch the movie, you'd think >>Andy spent half his life with Princess Lee Radziwill. When he wasn't >>tying Jade Jagger's shoes. > > > >What was Princess Lee princess of, anyway? > > > >Rachel, marchioness of Tyntagelle. > > -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:32:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:23:38 -0500 >From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo (1.8e)" > >Subject: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >To: bowering@sfu.ca >X-Virus-Scanned: by ebola.sfu.ca running antivirus scanner >X-Spam-Level: Spam-Level > > > >Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it >appears to have >already been distributed to the POETICS list. That is, a message >with identical >text (but possibly with different mail headers) has been posted >to the list >recently, either by you or by someone else. If you have a good >reason to resend >this message to the list (for instance because you have been >notified of a >hardware failure with loss of data), please alter the text of the >message in >some way and resend it to the list. Note that altering the >"Subject:" line or >adding blank lines at the top or bottom of the message is not >sufficient; you >should instead add a sentence or two at the top explaining >why you are >resending the message, so that the other subscribers understand >why they are >getting two copies of the same message. > >Received: (qmail 4059 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 00:23:37 -0000 >Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (142.58.120.21) > by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 00:23:37 -0000 >Received: from [142.58.74.47] (fs47.dialin.sfu.ca [142.58.74.47]) > by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.5/8.12.5/SFU-5.0H) with ESMTP id >gA60NS6L024184 > for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:23:29 >-0800 (PST) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >X-Sender: bowering@popserver.sfu.ca >Message-Id: >In-Reply-To: <002401c28526$707d3360$d996ccd1@CeceliaBelle> >References: <002401c28526$707d3360$d996ccd1@CeceliaBelle> >Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:01:07 -0700 >To: UB Poetics discussion group >From: George Bowering >Subject: Re:Radziwell >X-Virus-Scanned: by ebola.sfu.ca running antivirus scanner >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >>Rachel asks what country was Lee Radzwill Princess of. The Principality lies >>between the Czech Republic and Poland, a small area of land with an >>interesting history. An early ruler, Max the Equivocator, who spoke English >>with a thick MitttelEuropean accent,was being pressured by Prussia to throw >>in his lot with that Power. His ministers urged against this. After decades >>of deliberation, Max sprang to his feet and cried, in English, "Rats, I >>will!" He then fell into a coma and died, without revealing what it was he >>would--preserve the Principality's independence, ot fuse with Prussia? >> Max, a notorious bugger, left no issue, but his sister's son, Lem >>the Latherer,seized the throne and rallied his countrymen to its defense. >>Alrhough small in population, the Principality was surrounded by high >>mountains on all sides,and was without apparent resources--the people lived >>by dirt-scrabble farming, augmented by the sale of home-brewed alcoholic >>beverages. >> The Principality has long since been absorbed by its neighbors and >>turned into one of the primary ski-resorts of central Europe. This happened >>after the Blue Danube Railroad Company tunneled through and laid track snd >>built the spectacular bridge known among the locals as "The Maybe Bridge" >>(it was expected to collapse, but so far hasn't) thereby knitting Prussia, >>Poland and Czechoslovakia into a single region. The title of Princess >>Radziwill outlived its country's sbsorption, and all persons such as >>yourself, Rachel, who have an interest in these matters, (and God knows I am >>one of them!) hope that the "Rats-I-wills" will bw around for as long as the >>ski-resorts bring in enough cash to keep the castle in good shape and the >>the Princesses shapely. Hope this helps, David >> > >David is, as always, far too modest and humble. I guess it is left to >me to inform one and all about the name of the principality before >Max's expostulation. It was yclept Bromigenstein, after one of the >lowest mountains in the vicinity, and was known for the wild canaries >that flitted about the basin during the summer months. Many of the >northern Bromigensteinians mistook these lovely birds for large >butterflies and netted them for the purpose of diet supplementation. >But that is another story. > >> >> >>>> >the hideously titled (and >>>> >Jones/Baraka edited) _Four Young Lady Poets_ . . . >>> >>>> >But don't that title say it all? >>>> >>>> That's nothing compared to the parodies of that title that Ed Sanders >>>> used to emit. >>> >>>And what parodies were those? No fair holding out on us, George. It's >>>election day and Richard Nixon is perched on my shoulder. Glowering. >>> >>>You can always leave blank spaces in the middles of words, you know. >>> >>>Funny, I just saw Ed Sanders on film for half a second in Jonas Mekas's >>>"Scenes from the Life of Andy Warhol." To watch the movie, you'd think >>>Andy spent half his life with Princess Lee Radziwill. When he wasn't >>>tying Jade Jagger's shoes. >> > >> >What was Princess Lee princess of, anyway? >> > >> >Rachel, marchioness of Tyntagelle. >> > > > >-- >George Bowering >In for the long haul. >Fax 604-266-9000 -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:43:22 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog dont Blog the Log MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes: this is all very Blog. I will consulte The Cog. But I WONT insult the DOG or jog toward Ogg. Probably scrogg but only nog. Now plog. If plog then grog and if Grog, stog. In these matters we are all said to Trog. The light is made into Blog particles -and we wave goodbye to Trog. Bob has Blog but dont tell Mog. ----- Original Message ----- From: "cris cheek" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 4:24 AM Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog dont Blog the Log > But flog and blog boogie blog was don't flog the dog or plug the bog. > > You CAN do logs but sooner hog dog and keel over. > > The jog mind fogs the bogs you cant: these days cogs Blog people: log bugs. > > > Tactics differ from but ape antics. > > Prefer semantics, write tictacs and refer to frame. > > Frantic claim > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 22:11:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: why i vote jesus mary mother of god MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII why i vote jesus mary mother of god [yes] lower taxes [no] gun control saving the babies raising conservation euthanasia attack iraq war on terror support united nations iran yemen troops in middle [yes] east troops alcohol tobacco tax federal crime [yes] to federal smoke crime marijuana to no income for social [no] security support socialized medicine parochial [yes] schools support god america support love of [yes] jesus of mary god flag of animal rights experimentation stem cell research atheism peace corporate breaks prosecution ceos free [yes] trade support [yes] taxes lower [yes] taxes lower [no] control gun [no] control gun saving [yes] the saving babies the raising [no] conservation [no] euthanasia [no] attack [yes] iraq attack war [yes] on war terror on support [no] united support nations united iran attack yemen attack troops [yes] in troops middle in east middle alcohol [no] tobacco alcohol tax tobacco federal [yes] crime federal to crime smoke to marijuana smoke no [yes] income no for support social for security social socialized [no] medicine socialized parochial for schools parochial god support america in love [yes] of love jesus god mary jesus flag of animal [no] rights animal experimentation animal stem [no] cell stem research cell atheism [no] peace [no] corporate [yes] breaks tax prosecution [no] ceos of free of trade free [yes] lower taxes [no] gun control [yes] saving the babies [no] raising taxes [no] conservation [no] euthanasia [yes] attack iraq [yes] war on terror [no] support united nations [yes] attack iran [yes] attack yemen [yes] troops in middle east [no] alcohol tobacco tax [yes] federal crime to smoke marijuana [yes] no income tax [no] support for social security [no] socialized medicine [yes] support for parochial schools [yes] support god in america [yes] love of god jesus mary [yes] love of flag love of god [no] animal rights [yes] animal experimentation [no] stem cell research [no] atheism [no] peace [yes] war [yes] war on united nations [yes] corporate tax breaks [no] prosecution of ceos [yes] support of free trade === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 23:02:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Acker program revised Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I had sent out an earlier lineup for the Acker conference. Here it is: Program Schedule Thursday, November 7, 2002 6pm Opening Presentation Speakers: Avital Ronell and Peter Wollen Special Guest: Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick 7:30-8:30pm Reception and opening of the exhibition "Lust for Life: The Life and Wriitngs of Kathy Acker." Friday, November 8, 2002 9:00am Opening remarks: Steven Shaviro 9:15-10:45 Panel One LABYRINTHS OF GENDER Panelists: Caroline Bergvall Leslie Dick Judith Halberstam Catherine Liu moderator, Linda Kauffman 11:00-12:30 Panel Two PHILOSOPHY IN THE BEDROOM Panelists: Susan Hawkins Eleanor Kaufman Chris Kocela Barrett Watten moderator, Ulrich Baer 12:30-2:00 Lunch on your own 2:00-3:30 Panel Three INFLUENCING ACKER Panelists: David Antin Robert Glueck Carla Harryman Liz Kotz moderator, Ellen Friedman 4:00-5:30 ROUND TABLE What is the question/problem/possibility that Acker's work poses for you in your work? Panelists: Nayland Blake Leslie Scalapino Carolee Schneemann Sarah Schulman Chris Tysh Matias Viegener moderator, Lynne Tillman 5:30: Closing Remarks 6:00 pm READING The final event of the conference will be a reading from Essential Acker, a collection of Acker's writing edited by Amy Scholder and Dennis Cooper that will be published by Grove Press in conjunction with the symposium. Readers will be: Richard Foreman Diamanda Galas Kim Gordon Kathleen Hanna Rick Moody Sapphire ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 22:55:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Virginia Reassures Herself With The Arguments Against Bishop Berkeley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed evening, & the word "local" daydreams of being a palindrome the pages of achievement applied to the horses shut up in the sea blindfolds pointed in the direction of arm-slings heavenly mansions burned by rioters, though the land is still marketable - to a single end, Aspasia authorized Virginia to requisition supplies - discussion is freed from analysis by royal favor alone Sotades issued a declaration of justification whilst en route to the cliffs of Epipolae privileges and exemptions are what make this world go 'round else Virginia should be in league with the stones in the field minotaur-children stepped inside consumed Theseus whom the Gods wish to destroy they first amaze flint & steel straightened up a new signature (the Terrors were ready to sign it "For you, Virginia") Can I trust you & admit Elefish had drifted out of my projections? the Jellyphant was grasped clubwise so I might defend my good name born amongst her imperfect gravity Virginia fainting upon the sofa in habitual detestation three or four doctors read about your martinetish sightseeing Virginia unloosed her ouphe and barghest hoop next weekend, I'll become recently interested in this little beast like ashes set to bribing the coals turn to puns, norms of well-behaved frames confounded falseness begins with LADY GODIVA [Gradiva?] red & nicety by the needle competence too complex to engage the local my lungs eat away at the Psalmist, my common sense tells me "readers are not witnesses" antecedent twists & turns claim and reclaim Virginia's charms the mark of more than sufficient law is docility letters wronged you, didn't they? I can tell! there's some discrepancy between freedom & biological functions imperialism was touched off by a syrup of violets illicit gravedigging thought to be indicative of bolshevism my darling resemblance is a few steps away even a dip in the mirage - O iron collar! - is shaken by occasion the huge interiors shook within the custom sunken functionaries live for her debt fattened this calf the Bishop's head hangs from my pommel some trifle sinks heroes into banditry you card, you threw them all into postponing LAVBESP is it contumely or reverence that leaves a souvenir where it lies? a scrap is foreign to its origins (crucial!) Virginia bore the Old World into her left shoulder cold sweat, what do I owe you? a name less sick for being forgotten, Virginia, was cut short by waking up early your three little brothers pace a carpet 800 feet long unfortunate & manacled, though always welcome _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:25:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Virginia Reassures Herself With The Arguments Against Bishop Berkeley In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hell with Virginia; Esse est percipi, and dont you forget it. -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 00:02:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG: Stacy Doris and Timothy Liu read Saturday November 16; Liu workshop Friday November 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit POG presents poets Timothy Liu and Stacy Doris Saturday, November 16, 7pm Dinnerware Gallery, 135 East Congress Admission: $5; Students $3 Timothy Liu will also lead a free workshop on Friday afternoon, November 15, from 3-5, at BIBLIO, 222 E Congress (624-8222); contact POG or BIBLIO for further details. Timothy Liu (Liu Ti Mo) was born in 1965 in San Jose, California, to parents from the Chinese mainland. He studied at Brigham Young University, the University of Houston, and the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. He is the author of Say Goodnight (Copper Canyon Press, 1998), which was a finalist for the Lambda Literary Award; Burnt Offerings (1995); and Vox Angelica (1992), which won the Poetry Society of America’s Norma Farber First Book Award. He has also edited Word of Mouth: An Anthology of Gay American Poetry (Talisman House, 2000). His poems have been included in more than twenty anthologies and have appeared in such magazines and journals as Antioch Review, Denver Quarterly, Grand Street, Chelsea, Kenyon Review, New England Review, Paris Review, Ploughshares, Poetry, and TriQuarterly. He teaches at William Paterson University and lives in Hoboken, New Jersey. for more on Timothy Liu: http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=115 http://www.poetrymagazine.com/archives/1999/sept99/interview.htm http://www.poetrymagazine.com/archives/1999/sept99/liu.htm http://euphrates.wpunj.edu/faculty/liut/ Stacy Doris’ Kildare (Roof, 1995) makes poetry from electronic entertainments. Her Mop Factory Incident (Women’s Studio Workshop, 1996), designed and fabricated by artist Melissa Smedley, is a multi-lingual play-poem-comic-book on paper. She is also the author of La vie de Chester Steven Wiener écrite par sa femme (P.O.L., 1998), a biography of the world’s most perfect man, written in French. She has co-edited two journal anthologies of recent French poetry: Violence of the White Page (1991, Tyuonyi 9/10) with Emmanuel Hocquard, and 21 New (to America) French Poets (1997, Raddle Moon 16) with Norma Cole. She has been a Teaching-Writing Fellow at the University of Iowa Writers’ Workshop, and the recipient of a Fund for Poetry Award. Her latest book of poems, Paramour, was published by Krupskaya Press in 2000. Conference is forthcoming from Potes and Poets Press. She teaches poetry at San Francisco State University. for more on Stacy Doris: http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=719 http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext/poetry/doris/ http://www.krupskayabooks.com/doris.html http://home.jps.net/~nada/paramour.htm http://www.durationpress.com/authors/doris/conference.htm POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following POG donors: Patrons Roberta Howard and Austin Publicover; Sponsors Barbara Allen, Chax Press, and Stefanie Marlis. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 pog@gopog.org or visit us on the web at www.gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 00:09:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: for the record MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Darren Wershler-Henry keeps posting at listervs to which I have no access without becoming a member, and CCing his posts to a blog whose editor doesn't care for rants. Here I recently posted a D. W-H ventation addressed to me (but never sent to me) in order to respond to it in a public forum to which I have access. In another more vituperative and personal rant, he includes the following UBPoetics assessment: "i read your circulation of this debate to the buffalo list as a somewhat telling demonstration of insecurity on your part, and fully expect that the readers of said list will interpret it similarly." My only "demonstration of insecurity" is a desire to openly debate this question of the social word in a public forum. Louis Cabri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 02:12:21 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Decay into Self MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While I am enjoying the content of many marvelous blogs, such as Ron's, I can't but help agree with Mr. Jullich on the relation of the blog to solipsism and the general social/societal vector of the internet. (Jeffrey, pinch yourself.) The blog is indeed wholly an indicator of a technological retreat into the self, and it is an indicator of the decay and disfavor increasingly found in re: email lists. While people may bandy about voided words to adorn their support for blogs, for hypertexts, etc., the rise of the blog is wholly indicative of the solipsistic retreat that the Internet promised from its very foundation, and the very retreat that has been evidenced all along its development. The internet is designed in part to provide electronic cocoons for individuals. It is an individuating tool, the ultimate weapon for any divide-and-conquer strategy. Customization is designed for you, and only you. YES YOU! No, not him, not her, you. Yes, you, specifically you, not universally you. The community builders of the net forever swim upstream. While possibilities within the manifold of the e-world seem to be opening, they are related to a general decay of possibilities within the ur-manifold, which is of course the world itself. And those possibilities on-line become a world of everyone with a soap box, where no one is listening. Imagine if everyone in America managed to obtain a radio frequency and started their own country station. While it is certainly liberating on the self-expression front, and good for the MFA industry, it is wholly suffocating for those who live in a world of many trying to truly, *proximally,* interact. How are we to wade through the crap? How are we to keep in touch, literally? I guess that's ever a burden, but increasingly so. I rather obsessively spent a year (1999-2000) of my life writing about this very phenomenon and it seemed not to register anywhere. People "caught on" to proximate.org but very few really seemed to "get it." I even changed the way I wrote poetry to express this phenomenon during that period...writing confrontational poems where the "you" functioned quite specifically though the word was clearly implemented generally. An essay I wrote for VeRT about poetic radicalism and the potentiality of the internet a year or two ago received something like two responses. An entire book of poetry remains painfully unpublished, scalded by polite editorial confusion. while what I was spouting did not really catch on, I did forget that it did become recognized and incorporated into the rhetoric and analyses of some writers and artists at sarai.net, a media lab in Delhi, India. The very nature of the technology is to render its endpoints as individuated. And each computer is an endpoint, and each computer, one person. Person gets locked in, person tries to communicate, largely through text. Because proximity is lost in the communication, the gestures of communication are lost. And so people misinterpret those messages from one another because of the absence of gestural content. And then they blame it on one medium within the network and flee to another. (Hence the exodus from people involving themselves in email discussion, and the increasing amount of advertising within that medium...its last moments reveal what it is.) But they're already trapped, looking for the promise of far-reaching intimacy, which is obviously an oxymoron. Like "internet community." >From a marketing standpoint, these features sure make custom marketing schemes attainable. Many of us know what it's like to have the opportunity to promote our own work at places such as the Poetics list. Damn sure it's a great opportunity to get people interested in yr work, but it isn't so great an opportunity to get any sort of emotionally valid engagement, and so it ain't any sort of place to build a community. unless of course you want to build a community of robotic marketing reps (and frustrated folks too afraid to vent anger as themselves, and so don new masks, which is the more interesting of phenomena that the internet brings us). There's your internet for you. Brought to you by DARPA, "where success may provide dramatic advances for traditional military roles and missions." I am glad to see that perceptions along these lines are sharpening. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 04:04:23 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Article from the 27 Oct. LA Times: When The Nazis Run Your Town MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Under the following Rumsfeld P2OG plan, the United States government is planning to use secret military operations to provoke terrorist attacks on innocent people. This IS what they are saying. Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and the other Nazis in Washington plan to deliberately provoke the murder of innocent people. And they're advertising it. Waving it in our faces. The Secret War Frustrated by intelligence failures, the Defense Department is dramatically expanding its 'black world' of covert operations By William M. Arkin William M. Arkin is a military affairs analyst who writes regularly for Opinion. E-mail: warkin@igc.org October 27 2002 SOUTH POMFRET, Vt. -- In what may well be the largest expansion of covert action by the armed forces since the Vietnam era, the Bush administration has turned to what the Pentagon calls the "black world" to press the war on terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. The Defense Department is building up an elite secret army with resources stretching across the full spectrum of covert capabilities. New organizations are being created. The missions of existing units are being revised. Spy planes and ships are being assigned new missions in anti-terror and monitoring the "axis of evil." The increasingly dominant role of the military, Pentagon officials say, reflects frustration at the highest levels of government with the performance of the intelligence community, law enforcement agencies and much of the burgeoning homeland security apparatus. It also reflects the desire of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to gain greater overall control of the war on terror. Insulated from outside pressures, armed with matchless weapons and technology, trained to operate below the shadow line, the Pentagon's black world of classified operations holds out the hope of swift, decisive action in a struggle against terrorism that often looks more like a family feud than a war. Coupled with the enormous effort being made throughout the government to improve and link information networks and databases, covert anti-terror operations promise to put better information in the hands of streamlined military teams that can identify, monitor and neutralize terrorist threats. "Prevention and preemption are ... the only defense against terrorism," Rumsfeld said in May. "Our task is to find and destroy the enemy before they strike us." The new apparatus for covert operations and the growing government secrecy associated with the war on terrorism reflect the way the Bush administration's most senior officials see today's world: First, they see fighting terrorism and its challenge to U.S. interests and values as the 21st century equivalent of the Cold War crusade against communism. Second, they believe the magnitude of the threat requires, and thus justifies, aggressive new "off-the-books" tactics. In their understandable frustration over continued atrocities such as the recent Bali attack, however, U.S. officials might keep two points in mind. Though covert action can bring quick results, because it is isolated from the normal review processes it can just as quickly bring mistakes and larger problems. Also, the Pentagon is every bit as capable as the civilian side of the government when it comes to creating organization charts and bureaucracy that stifle creative thinking and timely action. The development of the Pentagon's covert counter-terror capability has its roots in the 1979 Iran hostage crisis. The Army created a highly compartmentalized organization that could collect clandestine intelligence independent of the rest of the U.S. intelligence community and follow through with covert military action. Known as the Intelligence Support Activity, or ISA, when it was established in 1981, this unit fought in drug wars and counter-terror operations from the Middle East to South America. It built a reputation for daring, flexibility and a degree of lawlessness. In May 1982, Deputy Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci called the ISA "uncoordinated and uncontrolled." Though its freelance tendencies were curbed, the ISA continued to operate under different guises through the ill-starred U.S. involvement in Somalia in 1992 and was reportedly active in the hunt for Bosnian Serbs suspected of war crimes. Today, the ISA operates under the code name Gray Fox. In addition to covert operations, it provides the war on terrorism with the kind of so-called "close-in" signals monitoring -- including the interception of cell phone conversations -- that helped bring down Colombian drug lord Pablo Escobar. Gray Fox's low-profile eavesdropping planes also fly without military markings. Working closely with Special Forces and the CIA, Gray Fox also places operatives inside hostile territory. In and around Afghanistan, Gray Fox was part of a secret sphere that included the CIA's paramilitary Special Activities Division and the Pentagon's Joint Special Operations Command. These commands and "white" Special Forces like the Green Berets, as well as Air Force combat controllers and commandos of eight different nations report to a mind-boggling array of new command cells and coordination units set up after Sept. 11. An Army brigadier general commands the Joint Interagency Task Force at Bagram air base north of Kabul to coordinate CIA, Defense Department and coalition forces in Afghanistan. A new Campaign Support Group has been established at Ft. Bragg, N.C. The Special Operations Joint Interagency Collaboration Center has been created in Tampa, Fla. In Europe, the Joint Interagency Coordination Group handles information-sharing and logistical support with NATO. Hawaii's Pacific Command stood up a Joint Interagency Counter-Terrorist Group this summer. Meantime, old commands are being morphed into new ones for the covert war. The two Joint Interagency Task Forces in the United States previously devoted to fighting drugs now have the war on terrorism as their highest priority. The epicenter of the Pentagon's covert operations remains the North Carolina-based Joint Special Operations Command, often referred to as Delta Force. The super-secret command is still not officially acknowledged to exist. Its two-star commander, Army Maj. Gen. Dell L. Dailey, who spent much of the Afghan war in Oman, has no public biography. Among Dailey's assets is a fleet of aircraft specially equipped for secret operations -- conventional and covert military planes and helicopters, and even former Soviet helicopters. The bulk of those craft, including the reconfigured Russian choppers, fly from airfields in Uzbekistan and from two Pakistani air bases, Shahbaz and Shamsi. The Air Force and the CIA collect additional intelligence from unmanned Predator and Global Hawk drones. They also have low-profile reconnaissance assets that look like transport planes and operate under such code names as ARL-Low, Keen Sage, Scathe View and Senior Scout. Not to be left out, the Navy's Gray Star spy vessel, reminiscent of the old Pueblo, captured by North Korea in 1968, now sweeps up sophisticated -- and obscure -- "measurements and signatures intelligence" to monitor the ballistic missile capabilities of Iraq, Iran and North Korea. Even with all this, the Pentagon wants to expand covert capabilities. Rumsfeld's influential Defense Science Board 2002 Summer Study on Special Operations and Joint Forces in Support of Countering Terrorism says in its classified "outbrief" -- a briefing drafted to guide other Pentagon agencies -- that the global war on terrorism "requires new strategies, postures and organization." The board recommends creation of a super-Intelligence Support Activity, an organization it dubs the Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group, (P2OG), to bring together CIA and military covert action, information warfare, intelligence, and cover and deception. Among other things, this body would launch secret operations aimed at "stimulating reactions" among terrorists and states possessing weapons of mass destruction -- that is, for instance, prodding terrorist cells into action and exposing themselves to "quick-response" attacks by U.S. forces. Such tactics would hold "states/sub-state actors accountable" and "signal to harboring states that their sovereignty will be at risk," the briefing paper declares. Never to be outdone in proposing hardware solutions, the Air Force is designing its own Global Response Task Force to fight the war on terrorism. The all-seeing, all-bombing Air Force envisions unmanned A-X aircraft capable of long-range, nighttime gunship operations and an M-X covert transport, as well as hypersonic and space-based conventional weapons capable of delivering a "worldwide attack within an hour." Who says the arms race is over? Rumsfeld's science board warns against overemphasis on equipment even as it recommends more. Washington is well on its way to an arms race with itself. And for those who worry that all these secret operations and aggressive new doctrines will turn the United States into the world's policeman, there is a ray of hope. Rumsfeld is now the field marshal of the war on terrorism, but the Pentagon is also creating new layers of bureaucracy that may save it from itself. Not to mention the rest of us. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:35:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems by others: William Carlos Williams, "Election Day" In-Reply-To: <000001c284f1$92701940$11a4f943@computer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" well i dunno, voting ain't what it used to be... At 11:22 AM -0500 11/5/02, schwartzgk wrote: >poem early and often! Gerald Schwartz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Halvard Johnson" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:35 AM >Subject: Poems by others: William Carlos Williams, "Election Day" > > >> Election Day >> >> Warm sun, quiet air >> an old man sits >> >> in the doorway of >> a broken house-- >> >> boards for windows >> plaster falling >> >> from between the stones >> and strokes the head >> >> of a spotted dog. >> >> --William Carlos Williams >> >> fr. *The Collected Poems of William >> Carlos Williams: Vol. II, 1939-1962* >> >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson > > =============== > > email: halvard@earthlink.net > > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 04:39:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: updated voting In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable voting in moist permissions a quarter past any good that can come of it long spaces are filled and refilled with optional devices and=20 attachments thick as insomnia, powdered music, and mania afloat in stock jokes I avert my eyes to the slippery dumbfoundedness lines meander over a ricochet someplace I slouch in inner intention look for the: Voice of thought . . . Voice of joy . . . Voice of touch . . . Voice of terror . . . see only soi-disant edgewise axioms drunken in gyroscope talking hand puppets and an ashtray full of beer soaked tobacco a paralanguage is stuck in sapir-whorf=92s hypothesis: the technology groan new apparatus call for special prices bleep =20 greased up right 10% off fist-fucked Pentagon any time pay as you go=20= willy-nilly any place raw cum weapons of mass bare backed destruction=20 oodles of or extra scheduled maintenance foot fetishes the ultimate=20 driving machine three mumbo jumbo war on terrorism first time brighter=20= whiter buyer "off-the-books" tactics cocks higgledy--piggledy pussy=20 free classified operations wheeling no degree of lawlessness long term=20= contracts tweedledee premature U.S. intelligence enema stroking=20 anytime Special Forces doohickey end-of-cycle buzzer donkey harness=20 whenever immediate mouth revolutionary technology whipping around=20 lardy-dardy prepaid month-to-month Spy planes babble bleachy-smelling =20= armed forces pillows tropical soft lips harum-scarum "axis of evil."=20 leather Fasten your seatbelts moving inflammatory care nipples to help=20= protect your biotech kids malarkey CIA's paramilitary between fuck=20 hard decisive action the legs of babes ice cubes law enforcement=20 agencies what you fuck you dial toys tongue therapy thrusting up=20 delirium explicit f/f,m/f, m/m anytime fighting drugs S&M Delta Force=20= drag wishy-washy hot wax full source logistics biting restraints =20 yakety-yak dominant role tit clamps femme fleet of aircraft escape=20 flagellation rough trade in overall control till it bleeds hysteria=20 pleasure armed with matchless weapons grade gaga covert winner=20 cigarette burns prepaid twitter best offer Global Hawk drones boner=20 fresh start where pets go patchwork stroking my stomach, squeezing my=20= breasts the new you neutralize raped and beat hiphop happy cunt=20 bugaboo ass bugger holiday switcheroo best of Prevention and=20 preemption hokey-pokey pussy licking new you call cross dressed=20 government secrecy now 1900- masquerade= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:43:44 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Haykel:Avoiding Bin Laden's Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I doubt Bin Laden existed ever as a threat. Most likely an invention of the CIA. He is - if he exists - probably on the CIA payroll. This is a load of crap. The purpose of the whole exercise is the US right wing to carry out a war against the working people of the world. Communism - the people in fact and the potential for communism or states strong enough to resist the US is the fear: and most "terrorism" if it exitsts is self defence such as the freedonm fighters in Palestine who legitimately want freedom as do the IRA. The other bombs (including Bali) are most likely planted by British or US intelligence. It is time the US retreated from the countries it is illegally occupying such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia the Phillipines and South Korea and other places..We need the US like we need a pile of stinking shit.. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Joris" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:47 AM Subject: Haykel:Avoiding Bin Laden's Trap > The following article came out last week in a German paper. I contacted the > author to get the original, English, version, which he forwarded, noting > that no US paper had been willing to print his piece. -- Pierre > > Avoiding Bin Laden's Trap > > Bernard Haykel > Assistant Professor of Islamic Studies > New York University > > > The war America is engaged in after the attacks on the WTC, the Pentagon and > Pennsylvania is a war for the hearts and minds of average Muslims around the > world. Bin Laden, if indeed he is the mastermind behind the attacks, has > set a trap for the US into which it must not fall. By attacking the US as > part of a jihad ("a holy war"), Bin Laden is in fact claiming to Muslims to > represent their grievances and to represent real Islam. He is in effect > saying: "Muslims, I share your grievances unlike your corrupt and > authoritarian governments; I am the only one doing something about it. I > have destroyed the symbols of American capitalism and stopped the heartbeat > of world finance which the US dominates." > > The US, as well as moderate Muslims the world over, must unite and deny him > this symbolic victory and must not accept to engage him in combat on these > terms. We should not let him define the terms of our intellectual and > symbolic battle. As a professor of Islamic law I have researched the law of > jihad and can state unequivocally that the war Bin Laden has engaged us in > cannot be labeled a jihad. Furthermore, I believe a strong case can be made > that he has acted contrary to the tenets of Islam and can be ostracized from > the community of believing Muslims. Moderate Muslims will agree with me, > certainly, as they are horrified by this attack and are desperate to have it > disassociated from their religion. The West must provide moderate Muslims a > way out of Bin Laden's trap. > > According to Islamic law there are at least six reasons why Bin Laden’s > barbaric violence cannot fall under the rubric of jihad: 1) Individuals and > organizations cannot declare a jihad, only states can; 2) One cannot kill > innocent women and children when conducting a jihad; 3) One cannot kill > Muslims in a jihad; 4) One cannot fight a jihad against a country in which > Muslims can freely practice their religion and proselytize Islam; 5) > Prominent Muslim jurists around the world have condemned these attacks and > their condemnation forms a juristic consensus (ijma`) against Bin Laden's > actions. This consensus renders his actions un-Islamic; 6) The welfare and > interest of the Muslim community (maslaha) is being harmed by Bin Laden’s > actions and this equally makes them un-Islamic. > > The Muslim Sentiment on "The Street": > > Americans have been baffled by reports that Muslims do not like, and even > hate the US. Muslims do not hate America. As proof of this we have: seven > million Muslims living in the US; foreign Muslims, like many others around > the world, clamor to obtain US immigration visas for the US; Muslims consume > American products and emulate American fashions (intellectual, social and > sartorial); Muslims place the bulk of their money in US financial > institutions; the list goes on and on. What many Muslims undeniably resent > about America, however, are American foreign policies towards Iraq, Iran, > Israel/Palestine and a complicit policy of supporting corrupt and > authoritarian regimes all over the Muslim world. Yet despite this > resentment only 4,000 Muslims actively seek to destroy America. These 4,000 > Muslims are Bin Laden’s foot soldiers. Let us remember that in 20 years of > recruitment Bin Laden has only been able to recruit 4,000 men. This group, > otherwise known as the Arab-Afghans, have theological and legal beliefs that > are at odds with the remaining 1 billion plus Muslims in the world today. > They are also at odds with those of their supporters, the Taliban, who, for > their part, are fanatical Hanafis of the Deoband school. Surely, 4,000 men > do not represent the entirety of the Islamic peoples?--and we should hammer > this point home continually. We should also deny Bin Laden the opportunity > of feeding off Muslim resentment and his claim to represent them. > > An immediate plan of action for the US and Western governments: > > There are very practical steps the US government can take that will take the > wind out of Bin Laden's sails and sidestep the trap he has laid. I will > begin with the most obvious measures. They are: > > 1. We should not send US or Western troops and special forces into > Afghanistan with the aim of arresting or killing Bin Laden. He has thought > about this scenario and desires it. A military attack on him would provide > a double victory: If he is killed he dies a martyr and symbol of resistance > to Western domination; he also gets to kill a number of US soldiers and > tarnishes the image of America in the minds of ordinary Muslims. > Afghanistan is the most backward and probably the poorest country in the > Islamic world; the image of the most powerful nation stomping on it will be > a public relations disaster and will destabilize Arab regimes. > > We must encourage Muslim countries to lead the fight against Bin Laden. > Support the Northern Alliance who have 15,000 troops in Afghanistan and work > on the Pakistani moderates to get involved in the fight. If retribution, as > seems to be the case, has to take place and America must feel it is the > prime agent in the pursuit of justice, then no military action can afford > not to involve moderate Muslim forces and their cooperation. This is not a > plea for war, far from it: there is too much bellicose rhetoric as it is. > > 2. We must stop using inflammatory language, such as President Bush's > statement that this is a crusade. Such a word evokes monstrous historical > memories in the minds of Muslims, namely barbaric Europeans rampaging > through the Eastern Mediterranean. Furthermore, Crusade connotes > Christianity versus Islam and this is not the right message. The infelicity > of this locution has presumably been brought to the attention of the > President. > > 3. We must publish a list of all the Muslims and women and children who > died in the WTC attack, since Islamic law categorically prohibits the murder > of such innocents. > > 4. We must engage our own Muslim community leaders here in the US, and, > particularly, send the respected ones among them with these facts to the > Middle East and South Asia to meet with impartial and respected Islamic > legal scholars, people who are respected by the man on the street and who > are clearly not in the employ of their respective governments. > > Scholars in Mecca, Medina and Riyadh will be central in this regard, as will > scholars in India and Pakistan. These scholars must be convinced to issue > fatwas (legal opinions) declaring Bin Laden's teachings and actions illegal. > Because it is prohibited by mainstream Islam, they cannot declare Bin Laden > an infidel (a practice called takfir) and we should not expect this of them. > These opinions will help bolster the consensus mentioned above and may > convince the Taliban that they need to hand Bin Laden over. > > 5. In the near future, we must put forth subtle hints that we will be > willing to reassess our foreign policies in the world. > > I think if we take the steps outlined above we may be able to ostracize Bin > Laden from the Muslim community and energize moderate Muslims to take center > stage again. America will win the war as will the vast majority of Muslims. > > ________________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris Just out from Wesleyan UP: > 6 Madison Place > Albany NY 12202 POASIS: Selected Poems 1986-1999 > Tel: (518) 426-0433 > Fax: (518) 426-3722 go to: http://www.albany.edu/~joris/poasis.htm > Email: joris@ albany.edu > Url: > ____________________________________________________________________________ > _ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:53:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: Charles Simic, "History Book" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit History Book A kid found its loose pages On a busy street He stopped bouncing his ball To run after them. They fluttered from his hands Like butterflies. He could only glimpse A few names, a date. At the outskirts the wind Took them high. They were swept over the used-tire dump Into the grey river, Where they drown kittens-- And the barge passes, The one they named Victory From which a cripple waves. --Charles Simic fr. *Weather Forecast for Utopia & Vicinity: Poems 1967-1982* [Barrytown, New York: Station Hill Press, 1983] Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:25:24 -0500 Reply-To: parrishka@sympatico.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: parrishka Subject: i'm your huckleberry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louis, once again, i post here against my better judgement but gosh darn it, i've always wanted to use that subject line. - against my better judgement, because your claims for your desires for an open debate seem disengenious to me- you did, after all, start this thing (i hesitate to call it a conversation) in a private e-mail. the gesture to bring it into a public- but not open- space, as far as i can see, was ron's. i first noticed the post(s), and it was I who fowarded the link to lexiconjury, a list whose membership is indeed restricted to the community that has formed around the Toronto reading series of the same name. i thought it would be of particular interest to us. in fact, quite a healthy conversation has sprung up there around some of the issues you raised in your post- and i think this is only possible because we know each other, we know each other's work, especially the work that enjoys a much smaller distribution through chapbooks handed out at readings, and through the readings themselves. and we have to face each other on a regular basis. as i am continually taking pains to point out when i find myself in international poetic company, there's an exciting new energy in this particular community, a lot of new voices, a desire to open up some space, to support young writers, to challenge some of the crustier attitudes that have impeded this work in the past. not going to blow my horn about the outcomes at this time- but the will and desire and commitment is exciting, and contrary to a lot of the opinions i hear circulated about this small part of the toronto poetry community. but i also responded to the post on my blog (http://www.meadow4.com/squish/) which does have a comments field, and if you would like to have a reasoned discussion about the question of the social word in that forum, you're more than welcome. but, given that I also interpreted your assessment of Christian's poethics to extend to others in his immediate aesthetic circle, (i think it was the line about "christian and his toronto oulipian cohorts" that did it), i hope you won't also call me a dimwit. i've already been called a hick this week, and so i'm feeling a bit testy. katherine Louis Cabri wrote: > Darren Wershler-Henry keeps posting at listervs to which I have no access > without becoming a member, and CCing his posts to a blog whose editor > doesn't care for rants. > > Here I recently posted a D. W-H ventation addressed to me (but never sent to > me) in order to respond to it in a public forum to which I have access. > > In another more vituperative and personal rant, he includes the following > UBPoetics assessment: > > "i read your circulation of this debate to the buffalo list as a somewhat > telling demonstration of insecurity on your part, and fully expect that the > readers of said list will interpret it similarly." > > My only "demonstration of insecurity" is a desire to openly debate this > question of the social word in a public forum. > > Louis Cabri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:31:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Decay into Self MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Patrick, I agree with this post. This is an extremely important perspective. Thanks, Aaron p.s. I don't think Bush is a Nazi, though. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:41:14 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: constipation of the imagination Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Outline of a Novel by the Storyteller Laureate of Hazlahan =20 I can feel the axe on my neck as they read me my contract before the fatal swing: The Storyteller Laureate of Hazlahan must produce one major literary = work a year and a story or poem each month or else face execution I thought it was a great honor to be appointed to the position I had written a book a year for six years that no one had actually read (small presses don't market very well, you know) The Storyteller Laureate publishes under the Imperial seal of Hazlahan and his works are read in all the Universities and papers are assigned to schoolchildren about each and every minor = little poem and it is extremely rare to get rejected because the Storyteller Laureate is the head rejecter of all of Hazlahan he is the ultimate arbiter if someone wants to fight a rejection slip=20 they can request an audience with the Storyteller Laureate to have justice done but if it is dreck the Storyteller Laureate can recommend execution of the author in severe cases or a total ban on submissions and publications if the offense to good taste is less egregious it is a dangerous thing to appeal to the Storyteller Laureate but the Storyteller Laureate rarely rejects himself and as the Emperor of Hazlahan is illiterate he does not often exercise his Imperial Veto power on the Storyteller's = publications oh what a nice thing to be Storyteller Laureate but I have violated my contract it is the end of December and by January first I must produce a major = work I am prohibited from working on any holidays and December 19th is the = Emperor's Birthday traditionally the work is presented to him then all bound and covered with positive blurbs from various Imperial officials and official literary lights It's not that I don't feel a novel coming on I can feel it coming out of me fully formed jam-packed with action and pungency but every time I try to write it down it sneaks back inside in out in out in out in out it hurts to strain so much it strikes me that if the novel could be made less solid more fluid, more stream of consciousness and ghostly in its narration less intense it might slide out of me more easily the last Storyteller Laureate was blessed with the gift of logorrhea he had only to sit down and novels and pays and poetry collections came shooting out of him in a spray of mediocrity with tiny lumps of quality mixed in when they appointed me they wanted somebody a bit more controlled more regular less diarrhoic in my prose and for several years I fit the bill nicely but now I have constipation of the imagination it could be because my last book was too visionary and when i was interviewed about the wonderful symbolism in it I said, "what symbolism? there really is a purple two headed weasel living inside each and every = person feeding on intestinal content and directing our souls. My weasel talks to me all the time, and so I know how to behave so as to be saved in the final Apocalypse the key to life is learning to hear the weasel within seeing the weasel is yet another step towards salvation if you are fully mindful you will see the weasel whenever you look in the mirror and summon it your skin will become transparent and you will see the outline of your intestines with the two-headed weasel swimming inside that is the goal of life" after this my daily orange juice started tasting funny and I was no longer certain about the existence of the weasel within I spied around the palace one day and discovered that the Court Physician had ordered a philtre of Haldol to be added to my breakfast each day and I couldn't protest because disobeying the Court Physician is grounds for execution as is poking into the Physician's activities he is allowed to operate totally without the patient's knowledge to avoid false cures caused by false hopes or reactions of a sick mind against the Physic which will make it better however I had heard=20 that Haldol slows down the movements of the mind as of the intestine killing the weasel and my novel in one fell swoop it could be that this was deliberate as I have heard rumors that the Court Physician would like to become Storyteller Laureate and my execution would serve his nefarious purposes so each morning I poured my orange juice down the gullet of the Court Cat and watched it get stiff and sluggish as my novel wrote itself down as quickly as I could type saved... and my intestines also have begun to produce fine output for the Imperial Compost Pile for which I get paid extra by the bushel basket isn't life sweet! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:21:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Abstract Lyric in your common parlyvu Comments: cc: ron.silliman@gte.net MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT found myself trying to explain 'abstract lyricism'to someone today (college educated, bright, but never exposed to much in the way of litereature and writing courses) and discovered that after a brief discussion of basic terms it was fairly simple if I've got it right? I enclosed at the end here definitions of terms from The Cambridge which does include thought as well as feeling in 'lyric'. I assume the 'abstract' here doesn't necessarily refer to the abstract/concrete dimension (even though on a sidetrack it could but then I would see the abstract lyric as more concrete lyric than abstract lyric?). If my experience is more general as i suspect it is this does seem to make this type of poetry more accessible for the common reader in the sense that it makes it something thatis liked or hated but at least there is a reaction. It also of course can be seen as a return to modernity which may or may not be a good thing? tom bell abstract (GENERAL) adjective existing as an idea, feeling or quality, not as a material object, or (of an argument, discussion, etc.) general, not based on particular examples Truth and beauty are abstract concepts. Her head's full of abstract ideas about justice and revolution. This debate is becoming too abstract (=general) - let's have some hard facts! Abstract describes a type of painting, drawing or sculpture which tries to represent the real or imagined qualities of objects or people by using shapes, lines and colour, and does not show their outer appearance that would be seen in a photograph. abstract art an abstract painter lyric adjective [not gradable] (esp. of poetry and songs) expressing personal thoughts and feelings ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:41:53 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: Invitation: Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An Invitation to Two Events: ======= BOOK LAUNCH: EILEEN TABIOS' REPRODUCTIONS OF THE EMPTY FLAGPOLE 7 p.m., Thursday, November 14, 2002 Asian American Writers Workshop 16 W. 32nd Floor, 10th Floor New York, N.Y. 10001 For more info: desk@aaww.org While launching her latest poetry collection, Reproductions of the Empty Flagpole (Marsh Hawk Press), Eileen Tabios' presentation will include a circling back to her first book, the ground-breaking Black Lightning: Poetry-In-Progress (AAWW, 1998). Joining the celebration will be Black Lightning poets Kimiko Hahn and John Yau; a Q&A with the three poets will follow. Further reflecting her poetics of interconnectedness, Eileen's reading will include the poem "Corolla" which was created partly from a collage of works by over 50 Filipina writers. She will present "Corolla" through two multidisciplinary collaborations: the first with multi-awarded performance artist Johanna Almiron, and the second with poet and jazz stylist Cristina Querrer, accompanied on piano by Duncan "Don" Profitt. The collaborations also will be presented unrehearsed since Eileen doesn't practice a Poetry that can be rehearsed. Eileen also will read (with other Marsh Hawk poets) at 1 p.m., Saturday, November 16, 2002 Bowery Club 308 Bowery @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's New York City For more information about Eileen's poetry collection, including advance words by Arthur Sze, Forrest Gander, Barry Schwabsky, Susan Schultz and Alfred Yuson, see www.MarshHawkPress.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:13:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: "have you ever retired a human" In-Reply-To: <140.1dc3e6e.2af6dcb4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "have you ever retired a human" take a deep breath turn the sky in to a bite size ball swallow imagine all the filth of time the screams from war blood shed particles lost memories from genocide exhaust, fumes, vapors and particles from every motor, coal furnace, and nuclear reactor the bones that have been crushed in machines by machine or become machines all the hate and violence caused by fear times 1 million and fifty five isolation and madness in the upper atmosphere each an every cry from the last of a kind each and every ten billion greed and the road paved with good intentions take a deep breath swallow ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:53:40 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Called Virginia by the Pirates: they were Ruth-less Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Called Virginia by the Pirates: they were Ruth-less and flung out of one bailiwick and into another province, the provincial = from North Dakota oh wither did Ruth wander? Where-so-ever wandered he = and wither they shift all the shiftless so she will follow and that is = fine for all the borders. And absolutely did decline to dance in the = street for Gertrude Stein. She only breaks in one place and they already = broke her sentences and syllables there some years ago so let her eat = another honey comb. Dip.=20 The apples of her eye awash in rose water, and on their lips honey. The = apples of her eye awash in rose water, and on their lips honey.=20 Only, she says, only ever are children of the kingdom always important = the always everywhere understood. The porters, day or night or other = same or both, hold no fear for her. Not now and maybe even, not then and = not ever again and if you hope to find, or imagine you have found or = perhaps even if you just want some more for no reason at all, assuming = you are or are not greedy, or needy or just enjoy the buzz, because that = is the way of it. Power, power everywhere and especially in the hands of = those who should know better ought to.=20 Look into their mirrors! Look inside!=20 It is wholly and entirely possible you just might find it there. It is = wholly and entirely possible you just might find her there. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:41:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Stop Stop Stop Stop Don't Stop You too could be part of some Central Square psychodrama that doesn't fucking Concern you, Could be the greatest of all Jedi if you weren't Lured and tricked buy the *Dark Side* while bars evacuate And faces get even Colder. I've been on the Shit end of transactions Between lesser known Messengers and their prophets, I've dashed the hopes of PTOs and religious Orders Only to find myself Solid amid Fetish Uniforms and Aroused In spite of my role as a Mentor Cradle and comfort Those worth the trouble Belay the orders of the Chorus Who warn endlessly to Flee embraces for third parties That sound too good and too true Jostled when we should be relaxed or Sated, fearful of Reprisals Kick in my door to Discover me hanging where I've always Been Feet from the ground, prime property the price is Right _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:52:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed She lies in state and So will We When it's our turn To fester As contrite as we Are it's tough to focus or listen to apocryphal Gospels But I've figured it out, you're The jealous 1 Unlucky with players and Hornier than hell Tell mountains to keep it down, Ask pimps for coupons While we gradually accept the Euro In cockpits we're Paranoid about Gremlins and ready to detect calibrated efforts during hideous maydays Advance me the rest of my Paychecks to Invest in rubber or Steel Fooling fathers into unwise dowries And daughters into Burlaps Have we started *yeah* Oh So push your biceps Past the maximums or just Trust the DJs with didactic Tempos to Incite once and for All fire next time and falling frogs _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:36:54 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virgine. The three Mary's. Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virgine. The Three Mary's. a sword point rises=20 above the book on the dexter side=20 and the whole=20 is encircled by=20 an aureole so they say and the three Mary's=20 and one more. and the=20 Celeste was really Mary,=20 not Marie, though=20 all the places that were set are still empty. Mary Anne, but an association. and we are not French.=20 Mhairi, Mhairi's bitter tears. Bitter. But the almonds were sweet and plenty. Sometimes, or yet often? The canon is followed or may be in future, by a gigue, a gigue.=20 When the dancers are ready they will perform. no harm if they are not ready. will never be ready. And the seven sorrows. The seven. One never uses fine steel to make a nail. One never sends one's children to be soldiers. After that, one is only returning to differences, a celebration of nothing but boundaries or none. Or sometimes. Or some. Or, son what difference can it make? One can only ever answer to one's self and maybe some other or other. And sometimes that is just illusion. Clockwise, counter-clockwise or just exactly the opposite and the heavens are above the heavens. Another direction follows, and following that, a possible refraction. And though the price is never right it always, always appears to remain the same. The Maries were full of virtue, unless they were called Hamilton and thank god they only hung her once. and thank god again, her neck was slender. And if the protecting veil offered no protection? Offer them power of eagles and or ravens. But they would ignore all of that.=20 Would simply ignore. And the differences? Would ignore those if they knew how. Simply ignore the differences, if they knew how. And one who said one celebrates the differences was hung as a witch in Salem. Hung. And one who said one celebrates the differences was hung as a witch in Salem. Hung. for Lucy Peaslee Dougal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Nikolayev Subject: Fulcrum Poetry Reading at Harvard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FULCRUM POETRY READING Bill Corbett Tom Raworth (England) Philip Nikolayev Katia Kapovich Sponsored by Harvard's Dudley Literary Fellows and Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics WHEN: Tuesday, November 12, 7 p.m. WHERE: Dudley House Fireside Lounge, Harvard Yard Participants will read poetry and discuss the new transatlantic journal = of poetry and criticism, Fulcrum. Contributors to Fulcrum's premiere = issue include Paul Muldoon, Marjorie Perloff, August Kleinzahler, John = Kinsella, W.N. Herbert, Robert Kelly and others. The issue's focus is = the current state of poetry throughout the English-speaking world. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: KYGER, ROTHENBERG, MELTZER, HOLLO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joanne Kyger, Michael Rothenberg, David Meltzer and Anselm Hollo Miami Book Fair International Miami-Dade Community College-Wolfson Campus 300 Northeast Second Avenue, Miami, FL 33132 Saturday or Sunday, November 24th,2002 10:30 to 12:00 pm If you happen to be in Miami.=20 Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:20:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: <006301c285e1$41cc7790$bbb356d1@ibmw17kwbratm7> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, lines, epithets, for me and others today? -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:20:29 -0800 Reply-To: solipsis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: solipsis Subject: Geworfenheit: c[ha]osm/c[ha]omm Comments: To: list@rhizome.org, xtant@cstone.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geworfenheit: c[ha]osm/c[ha]omm http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/chickenscratch/lquarles/cosmcomm.html galleriphaneronoemikon www.hevanet.com/solipsis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:02:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: madness and writing Comments: To: Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It might be worthwhile if posters here on this continually appearing topic tookk a look at some current research from a perspective that makes sense to me and runs counter to current TVlevel thing on the madness question. Philip Zimbardo, president of the APA and of some past noteriety, has a piece in the latest APA _Monitor_ on this (I think there is some research available on this and it should start reseaching media sources in a year or so. I mention it here as it does relate to 'narrative drive'. according to the theory madness stems from discontinuity (often a blow to self esteem) coupled with "resoning with insufficient data, or rigidly defending the wrong theory" powered by narrative 'drive." tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: post-election day blues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that is a really good question michael r. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: post-election day blues > does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, > lines, epithets, for me and others today? > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:36:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Magee Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: from "Maria Damon" at Nov 6, 2002 05:20:51 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to Maria Damon: > > does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, > lines, epithets, for me and others today? > -- > Maria, I have only the immortal words of football coach Bill Parcells to offer you. Asked what he does after a bad loss, he replied, "Well, what I do is, I don't sleep all night, and then in the morning I puke in my mouth a couple times and get back to work." -m. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:38:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 11/6/02 3:20 PM, Maria Damon at damon001@UMN.EDU wrote: > does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, > lines, epithets, for me and others today? > -- Here's a visual scream of bloody murder, albeit admittedly not the least bit consoling. WELCOME TO IMPERIUM! THE NEW NEW WORLD ORDER : http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/Imperium.jpg -mwp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:42:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:20 PM 11/6/2002 -0600, you wrote: >does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, >lines, epithets, for me and others today? as consoling as a good slap in the face: "Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few." -George Bernard Shaw ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:56:58 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: Re: post-election day blues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Maria - the hope this time is like the hope for all times, in the future. The paltry showing on all fronts by Democrats suggests that they should dispense with middle-of-the-road DLC campaigning, and go back toward the Left. Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) policy, guided mostly by VP ex-candidate Lieberman and centrist business interests, built a coalition of fairly spnservative democrats who could win, while at the same time dumping or severly curtailing old Democratic warhorses like labor, except, of course, for lip service. Politics over the last ten years has become increasingly and more openly a matter of wrecking crews from each side trying to sink each others' financial; support; Clinton goring Big Tobacco and Insirance resulting in the national distress over The Dress, which was stained, by the way, not with semen, but with tobacco juice; Willy got smoked. The same thing is going oin behind the scenes "even as we write" - The 'pubs've got the likes of Big Oil & Insurance Companies, while the dems've got computer chips (Gatesville), big investment firms through the likes of Warren Buffett, Coca Cola & the Washington Post Chain. So, any real word of consolation wld have to be that there is a lot of studying for us all to do in order to understnad how it might that this double-sided thingless thing can be encouraged to bring itself down. To a "see-able" level. It's the same old thing: follow the money. The trail keeps getting increasingly obvious, because very few follow it. But eventually someone will, and DC, all sides, will get caght like (Dorn said) "a briefcase with its pants down." Start pulling. Catr >From: Maria Damon >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: post-election day blues >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:20:51 -0600 > >does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, >lines, epithets, for me and others today? >-- _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:25:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: post-election day blues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We'll all be dead in less than a century, Maria. Meanwhile, there are cartoons, lampoons, conjugal visits and full moons at the beach; and children (get your hands on as many as possible) to teach that it is wrong to steal elections, especially by murder, and that the symbolic elephant has been fired in favor of a leech. Yours, David -----Original Message----- From: Maria Damon To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:20 PM Subject: post-election day blues >does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, >lines, epithets, for me and others today? >-- > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:19:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Charity begins in ruin. on 11/6/02 3:20 PM, Maria Damon at damon001@UMN.EDU wrote: > does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, > lines, epithets, for me and others today? > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:51:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed We have Bubba to thank. This ain't on W. It's on Bubba. A great old teacher used to say to us, "When you put a Real Republican up against a fake Republican (DLC Dem), the real Republican always wins. At 10:56 PM 11/6/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Maria - the hope this time is like the hope for all times, in the future. >The paltry showing on all fronts by Democrats suggests that they should >dispense with middle-of-the-road DLC campaigning, and go back toward the >Left. >Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) policy, guided mostly by VP ex-candidate >Lieberman and centrist business interests, built a coalition of fairly >spnservative democrats who could win, while at the same time dumping or >severly curtailing old Democratic warhorses like labor, except, of course, >for lip service. >Politics over the last ten years has become increasingly and more openly a >matter of wrecking crews from each side trying to sink each others' >financial; support; Clinton goring Big Tobacco and Insirance resulting in >the national distress over The Dress, which was stained, by the way, not >with semen, but with tobacco juice; Willy got smoked. >The same thing is going oin behind the scenes "even as we write" - >The 'pubs've got the likes of Big Oil & Insurance Companies, while the >dems've got computer chips (Gatesville), big investment firms through the >likes of Warren Buffett, Coca Cola & the Washington Post Chain. So, >any real word of consolation wld have to be that there is a lot of studying >for us all to do in order to understnad how it might that this double-sided >thingless thing can be encouraged to bring itself down. To a "see-able" >level. It's the same old thing: follow the money. The trail keeps getting >increasingly obvious, because very few follow it. But eventually someone >will, and DC, all sides, will get caght like (Dorn said) "a briefcase with >its pants down." Start pulling. >Catr > > > >>From: Maria Damon >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: post-election day blues >>Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:20:51 -0600 >> >>does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, >>lines, epithets, for me and others today? >>-- > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:10:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: updated voting In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Why doesn't someone just send George Bush that spam about getting a bigger penis? -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:21:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Decay into Self In-Reply-To: <007701c285b1$f6a02070$196686a5@belzjones1500.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Patrick, > >I agree with this post. This is an extremely important perspective. > >Thanks, >Aaron > > >p.s. I don't think Bush is a Nazi, though. No, the National Socialists would have thrown him out for his devotion to his oil business buddies. -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:22:40 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: updated voting The Big Penis Rules America MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He already is one and he is a Nasti as well. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:10 PM Subject: Re: updated voting > Why doesn't someone just send George Bush that spam about getting a > bigger penis? > -- > George Bowering > In for the long haul. > Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:39:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: post-election day blues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A friend wrote this today: "The only consolation is that the way most people are, things have to get a lot worse before they can get better--and if we're headed for a train wreck at least it will be clear who was in charge (and therefore who's to blame, one can only hope) when it happens!" This is the "boil" theory of American politics: things have to get really ugly before they can get lanced. It explains why some of us thought Nader was a good alternative even though our votes might have indirectly helped to elect Bush -- the psychopathy would be more evident and easier to identify. It of course presumes that we don't all die and/or become destitute first. "We'll see." Meanwhile, remember Nick's post about the Adorno paradox? "Whoever pleads for the maintenance of this radically culpable and shabby culture becomes its accomplice, while the man who says no to culture is directly furthering the barbarism which our culture showed itself to be." For "culture" one could substitute "Democratic party" -- not that it's any more consoling. But, you know, people looking for solutions are probably on the wrong list. Meanwhile, this quote from Gore Vidal (thanks for those links, Patrick) might be relevant: "And the liberals, of course, are the slowest and the stupidest, because they do not understand their interests. The right wing are the bad guys, but they know what they want -- everybody else's money. And they know they don't like blacks and they don't like minorities. And they like to screw everyone along the way. "But once you know what you want, you are in a stronger position than those who can only say, 'Oh no, you mustn't do that.' That we must have free speech. Free speech for what? To agree with The New York Times?" Joe Safdie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:22:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Canonocity? In-Reply-To: <192.3629999.29b8c8cf@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The post-canon canon was firing a few days ago when I was re-reading E.E. Cummings' 50 poems and I began to wonder about his legacy. He's never been quite embraced by the avant-garde, the langpos, the new lyricists or any collective whose production of work is dependent, however tangentially, on some of Cummings' innovations. Looking back through 50 Poems, which I hadn't read in years, I felt the incredulity of a tourist stepping from the dark of the train station into mid-afternoon Venice: retro-cascades of typescript, porticoes of blank spaces, uncoupled parenthesis. A once-new-and-now-very-old-seeming land built from syntax up. Sometimes, it's true, the garbled typography is simply annoying, or at best, something dated, a curiosity like the Cadillac, designed in the fifties with fins and rocket lights intended to convey a futuristic design but appearing to us, retrospectively, as a quirky miscalculation. But other poems, such as "Somewhere I have never travelled, gladly beyond," seem the work of a severely mentholated Elizabethan and are succesful as such. And I was struck anew with the materiality of his poems, the reliance on shape that seems a precursor to some forms of concrete poetry, and I wonder why Cummings' is so often ignored by those who, it would seem, derive parts of their thematic flourish from his explorations. Is it because his lyric content, so laden with abstractions, is as normative and contrived as his syntax is radical? Is it because he became a "popular" poet and there's great antipathy and suspicion cast on such status? Is it because he overproduced, watering down true innovation with a sea of replicas? I'm curious what others think of Cummings and how his reputation now rates... -Ravi ****** Ravi Shankar ed., http://www.drunkenboat.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:13:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: Free Exchange CFP: trans/actions (Mar 7-8, 2003) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Department of English at the University of Calgary invites abstracts for papers to be presented at the 2003 Free Exchange graduate conference: trans/actions March 7-8, 2003 University of Calgary The aim of this year's conference is to investigate the stakes and the politics involved in various types of movements across, acts of exchange, and forms of resistance. As such, you are invited to parse our title however you wish and enter this discussion by focusing on trans-, transactions, or actions. These are some of the questions we're asking: What movements and changes occur across segments of space and time? How is our relationship to spatio/temporal borders affected by globalization, free trade, and the (potentially) instant transmission of information and capital? by the rhetoric of equality? accessibility? justice and just war? Who gains when these borders are crossed? How can we engage in kinds of time travel that seek to do other than merely co-opt the past? or usurp the future? What is gained and lost in our exchanges with each other (interpersonal, economic, textual, etc.)? Is there such a thing as "free exchange"? Who places value in such transactions? What happens to heterogeneity and hybridity in the context of a universal token of currency? Is there still room for a surplus? Does it become merely a "token minority"? What happens to power in the act of exchange? to representation? to meaning? What (actions) can our bodies speak? How can such discourse interrupt the continuities of power structures? What changes are produced by these interruptions? What kinds of agency function in not acting as well as in acting? in mimicking? in ventriloquizing? in repeating? How is the body implicated in cognition and language? Possible themes include, but are not limited to: cultural exchange, globalization, travel narratives, technology, embodied cognition, history, politics of identity, innovative poetics, foreign policy, prospective fiction, futurity, hybridity, post-humanism, the subject-in-process, performativity. We encourage critical, creative and interdisciplinary responses in the form of 20-minute presentations. Please send 250-word abstracts to: free_exchange@yahoo.com Deadline for submissions is January 6, 2003. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:45:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII it's easier in war. realize the apocalyse has already happened. the slaughter-extinction of the world began in wwi. inhabit the other side after the dawn has occurred, after dusk inadvertently slips through the night. the horror we generate is a generation of horror: release it. walk by the shore, maria - alan On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Maria Damon wrote: > does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, > lines, epithets, for me and others today? > -- > http://www.asondheim.org/ and http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm cdroms of work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:20:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: performative happening somewhere else MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII performative happening somewhere else all my colors are garish - i'm ill again - slight fever - headache - chills - forgive me - my dashes - i speed past celine - a realization - there is no performative - the performative doesn't exist - material refractions - that's all - wedding vows - everything - require concrete embodiment - that's how it is - it's all physical states - the state-space of the machine - things changing - state-space to state-space - surface residue on the screen - ascii or otherwise - all sorts of things - words continuing on another level - we've got to be careful here - among the internal matrix of meaning of language and orienting of cognitive domains - and transformations of material strata - i've always written about the political economy of language - the necessity of the scream or demand or cry of the wounded or orgasm or laughter - not necessarily in that order - it's an economy that exfoliates and effuses within its own sememe - its own space and own ontology - epistemologically it wanders like everything else - but that space concretely presents the potential abundance of material operations - it's not that i'm a materialist - in spite of my sore throat and shivering - but that the material world carries on the discredit of language - it's all a mix we pass for intelligence as if writing and theory were an 'however' summarizing the abstract configura- tion of the day - thought is internal/external - panoplies of tendrils among laminanimal - can you imagine - it doesn't reside one way or another - instigated by mental operations hardly to the discredit of the material world - the performative is in the speaking or writing - my fingers on the keys - my vocal cords and enunciations - literally a far cry - i can hardly focus now - but the theory of performativity has to be radically revised - i can assure you - the point it's missing is elsewhere - not even peripheral - not even a 'somewhere else' - i'm hard put to hypothe- size the bridges - mappings of all sorts - internal neural mappings to external manipulations - all machinery - all electronics - is the lever - my eyes are hurting - this goes on and on - the doctors can't do a thing - they keep asking questions - sending me from one to another - keep filling out forms - === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:39:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 42 (2002) Alexandra Yurkovsky | Alphabetical Alterations "Avatars bash crass devotees. Educated fops garner hosannas. It's just kitsch. Leavened mendicants nurture obese patrons. Quotas remain sacred. Technological underwriting validates war. Xenophobic yo-yo zeitgeist." [13 of 26] Alexandra Yurkovsky has had poems in CHIRON REVIEW, FISH DRUM, HQ (UK), and MODERN HAIKU, and reviews in the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, SAN FRANCISCO BAY GUARDIAN, EAST BAY EXPRESS, and PARABOLA, et cetera. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:52:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: review of new book Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, po_po_pr@clarkson.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This following review was the front page of this past Sunday's book page in= =20 the San Diego Union Tribune. The book is available from me directly or from= =20 Small Press Distribution. TEMPERATURE, RISING The border region is burning with literary fever; 'Across the Line/Al Otro Lado' captures the poetry of Baja Reviewed by Luis Alberto Urrea November 3, 2002 The Poetry of Baja California Edited by Harry Polkinhorn & Mark Weiss Junction Press, 382 pages, $25 Border perestroika collapsed on 9/11. In Vicente Fox, conservative America= =20 had its dream come true =96 a Mexican president who could arguably be called= =20 a Republican. Fox was certainly the first Coca_Cola executive to take the= helm. He proposed a sweeping change on the border, and not in the usual=20 hand_wringing terms of human rights or the surly post_revolutionary cant of= =20 the former regimes. No, Fox came at George Bush with a simple message: capitalism. Mexico represented billions= =20 of potential profit dollars to post_NAFTA America. "Border?" Washington=20 cried. "What border?" Al Qaeda put an end to that. The border situation worsens yearly. The death toll is rising. Both the=20 right and the left spout endless opinions in the face of a mounting human= =20 catastrophe, one side excoriating the illegals and the other spanking the= INS. And it's not that our two great peoples don't want to get along. There are= =20 proposals for immigration museums floating around both San Diego and El=20 Paso. (El Paso is probably going to win that race, with a=20 multimillion_dollar project under way at the University of Texas at El=20 Paso.) Rock and pop music now crosses borders with ease. Literature is=20 still sputtering, somewhat, but the Latino writers keep on coming. Perhaps,= =20 as scholars have often suggested, it is the job of art and culture to=20 repair what has been destroyed by war and befuddled by politics. OK, OK =96 the Salvation of the Border is an unfair burden to lay on a= humble=20 anthology of poems by my Baja California homies. However, "Across the Line/Al Otro Lado" is a long_overdue eye_opener, a=20 harbinger of greatness to come. The alleged wasteland of our "benighted"=20 sub_border desert is, and always has been, teeming with literary life. It's= =20 a great time for the arts in the Tijuana/Frontera nexus. The revolutionary Nortec Collective, with their radical techno beats sliced= =20 and diced from classic ranchero music, has subverted the music scene in the= =20 United States, to the point where you hear Nortec when the new Volvo=20 commercial rolls across your teevee screen. Nortec has also inspired a=20 hearty writing community, featuring many young Mexican wild_women and=20 warriors of the pen. (Two of the Mexicali poets in the anthology are=20 rocanrol stars on the border.) In San Diego, the Taco Shop Poets are taking= =20 matters into their own hands. (If there is a failure on the literary border, it is the friction between=20 the Tijuana and San Diego writers. If they could form a unity of vision and= =20 purpose, then something truly extraordinary and world_class might erupt=20 from our streets.) "Across the Line/Al Otro Lado" should be required reading in our high=20 schools and colleges. Edited by Harry Polkinhorn and Mark Weiss, it=20 features a whopping 54 poets in face_to_face Spanish and English text. As is often the case with English translations of Spanish material, some of= =20 the translators have been timid, or even meddling. They sometimes try to=20 sound "Latin" in their translated elocutions, and the effort seems forced=20 and even tortured, when many of the originals sing. This is, of course, a quibble. And it's a complaint that can be laid on the= =20 translators of Octavio Paz and Pablo Neruda, too. Weiss and Polkinhorn are excellent editors. Their introductory materials=20 are a handy, concise history of the literary movements of Mexicali, Tecate,= =20 Tijuana, et al. I bet you didn't know they had a literary history. Start=20 being surprised. Possibly delighted. Mexico doesn't know, either. If you feel a healthy dose of liberal guilt=20 about our bad attitude toward Baja California, rest assured that the=20 Mexican motherland has a worse problem. Baja is a strange, breakaway,=20 revolutionary area, an isolated dark continent unto itself, where dangerous= =20 thoughts breed and wild independence is the rule. Baja makes Roger=20 Hedgecock and Vicente Fox nervous. One of the many treats in this book is finding out how many small presses=20 there are on the Mexican side of the border. Yo, locos, are you kidding me,= =20 or what =96 the index of authors lists some 20 small/university presses. Add= =20 to that a healthy literary magazine community. Who wouldn't want to publish= =20 a book with a press called Chuchuma? How many presses are there in=20 Calexico, I wonder? In Brawley? Editor Weiss is the author of "Fieldnotes," one of the mostdelightful books= =20 of American poetry of the last decade. It was criminally overlooked =96=20 perhaps an element of being a San Diego_based poet. "You simply cannot be a= =20 poet in San Diego," a poet who fled that bastion on the hill, UCSD,=20 recently snarked to another, Chicago_based poet. That may be true at UCSD, especially for the five or six Latino students=20 there. But step into the city and you'll find lively poetry (ask Weiss).=20 Even more bubbles up from the barrio. And there is an absolute storm of=20 verse across the border. Poets, move to Tijuana! Polkinhorn, Weiss' co_editor, has long been active in the Chicano/Latino=20 scene. His work helped keep the seminal journal Maize afloat way back in=20 prehistory. He is a scholar with many years of service at San Diego State.= =20 (That's the college that actually has Mexicans in it.) Not all the poets in this book are exemplary, or brilliant. But there has=20 never been an anthology in which every poet gave good weight. If you like=20 Bukowski, I'm not sure you'll get all a_tingle over Denise Levertov, for=20 example. Still, with some leeway given for vagaries of taste, the poets in "Across=20 the Line/Al Otro Lado" are always interesting, and sometimes astounding.=20 Like many Mexican poets of the 20th/21st centuries, they owe a deep debt to= =20 Neruda and Mistral. But the rigors of Paz and the sly dryness of Jose=20 Emilio Pacheco are also greatly in evidence. These aren't rustic slouches = =96=20 these are poets engaged in the art, wrestling with structuralism,=20 postmodernism, minimalism, surrealism. One wonders where Juan Reynas,=20 Esali, Jose Javier Villarreal, Julieta Irigoyen, to name a few, have been=20 all these years. Well, they have been here all along; we simply didn't know. Barring Laura=20 Bush =96 who, by the way, is a great fan of Latino writing =96 initiating a= =20 norte=F1o poetry festival, this book might be the best place for us to= start.=20 I hope it is marketed in Mexico, too. My dear Baja is waiting to take its=20 proper place as the center of the literary map. Luis Alberto Urrea is the author of "Across the Wire:=20 Life and Hard Times on the Mexican Border." His newest book is= "Six Kinds of Sky." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:05:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT this is about the most fitting thing i could hear today, alan. almost makes things seem real hassen On 11/6/02 9:45 PM, "Alan Sondheim" wrote: > it's easier in war. realize the apocalyse has already happened. the > slaughter-extinction of the world began in wwi. inhabit the other > side after the dawn has occurred, after dusk inadvertently slips > through the night. the horror we generate is a generation of horror: > release it. > > walk by the shore, maria - > > alan > > On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Maria Damon wrote: > >> does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, >> lines, epithets, for me and others today? >> -- >> > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ and http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > older at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html > Trace projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > cdroms of work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:30:33 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: SEGUE READING: Nov 9th, Carloline Bergvall and Tonya Foster Comments: To: "Ubuweb@Yahoogroups.Com" , Rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB http://www.segue.org/calendar/calendar_index.htm http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Curators: Brian Kim Stefans & Gary Sullivan TONYA FOSTER One of the rising stars on the New York scene, Tonya Foster has had work published in a variety of zines and journals, including POeP! and The Poetry Project Newsletter. Her "Cinematic Neurosis: An American Journal" appears online at www.poetryproject.com/foster3.html. CAROLINE BERGVALL The English invasion continues with Caroline Bergvall, whose books include Eclat (Sound & Language, 1996) and Goan Atom: jets poupee (rempress, 1999), recreated for Krupskaya (2001). Be ready for anything with CB, who created the performance program at Dartington University and whose digital works can be found at How2 (www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:21:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0027 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0027 [excerpt] www.wired-paris-review.com BY CONTRABAND => OF THE VEL ALII BALIVI NOSTRI OR TERMINALLY|FINITE => OUR BEFORE THEY HIM MADE FOR NO TERMINALLY|FINITE => CONTRABAND => THAN THAT THE JURIES WERE NOT SCREWDRIVER => KIT => INTERESTING => FAECES => FEAST => AND BEDS WITH TO SCOUTS => SECRET => CHARWOMAN => AND TO BOOKS THAT IT HELD => HESITATION => YOUR ENQUIRIES => SAGENESSES TO AFORESAID COUNTY GRIME => GRITTY => AT BY WHICH IT APPEARS THAT THE THE OF THE COUNTY IS NO OF PARTED => TAN => AND THE SUITORS KIND => NEWS => NICE => HUISSIERS BEDSIT => BEDS => NOISES => PILES => MARCHIONESS => TO THE CHOCOLATE => THEREOF TO BE AS HELD => HESITATION => HIM AS OBLIGATION => SELL => YOU BLEED => CAP => AND ALL KINGS ENACTED SO FEW LAWS IF THEIR LAWS HAD BEEN RECEIVED AS BRASSWARES RESTRAINED => AND COPPERS PAPEER AND CLIMB => CLOTHES => AND IN PHYSICS => OR FOR ANALYSE => ARC => OF SYMPATHETIC => BY ANY OF THE ANCESTORS OF THE CHARTERS ON THE HOOP => CAT => ARE TO BE CONSTRUED WITH TO CHOCOLATE => IN TO THOUGHTS => WISE => HIS CREDITORS THIS OF CRUMBLE => DOTH ADJUDGE THAT LIONEL OF A HOLDING LADIESBOG => BY KNIGHT LINEN => LONE => AND DEVISE BY HIS SUBMISSION AND IS ABOVE ALL GCHAIRSDES => FOR THE ADRENALINE|PITY => OF ITS NO BOOK => THINKING => DRESSMAKING => SINISTER => STRANGE => TO RESIDE IN THE CHARMING => FIT => WITH PERCEIVED THAT THE OF THE LADIESBOG => WHICH WE BY PINE => TREES => ARE TO THAT IS HOW KETTLE => TEMPO => THRIFTY => UNKIND => INJUSTICE IS UNDER THE ESTABLISHED => OF BAIL OR SURETY HOWEVER IF IT IS ORANGESSHERBET => THAT THE WAS CARTRIDGE => LONELY => OF THEM IF AND DISREGARD THE THAT THE IS AND OF FOLLY => OF ALL OVERDRAFT => ON THEIR LATE => LEAF => VICARAGE|DOGFISH => TO DEMONSTRATIONS => WHAT ARE OATHS TO THE THE SHERIFF BAILIFF OR STEWARD AND NO CONTEMPLATING => MECHANICS => MIRROR => THAT IT WAS THE INLAND ROADS FROM HORROR => HOT => TO HORROR => HOT => WERE SMARTIE => AND WITHOUT ENERVATING => RELATIONSHIP => AT WORD => WORDS => OF LEVY OF APARTMENT => BE FINAL SOLD TO DELICATE => OR DROPOUT => BREWERS OR RAINWATER => RIFLE => BE THE PREAMBLES OF THE LAWS OF THE WITAN DISLIKE => OF THE INTERPOSED BY THEM REVOLVE => SAVED => BESPOKE => DESPOTISM COULD THIS NOISESOME => NUMBER => THEN REBEL => OWE => SAW => SILLY => IT WAS CONTEMPLATING => VICARAGE|DOGFISH => OF THIS NOISES => PILES => ROOM => SOLID => BUT IT IS TO BE FEARED THAT THE CREATED => DESTROY => WHICH OF FOOL => FOOLS => HATH DOER => AND WOMEN WORE STOCKINGS AND OVER THEM AND THEN HENRY APPOINTED THE ESTABLISHED => BUILDINGS => OF THE CHARMING => FIT => AND RESOLVED INJUSTICE DOUBTLESS A FORBIDDING DOER => TO BANG => BUMP => ON STENCH => OF STITCHED => STOOD => THE HYMN|VERILY => RUN => RUNNING => IN CONTRABAND => IT IS PREJUDICE => WOULD|WOUND => FORNICATION INCEST OR ANY TERMINALLY|FINITE => INCONTINENCE OF THE TRIED => VITAL => BY WITHOUT ITS ENACTED AS HE COULD IF IT WERE ABOVE ALL CALCULATION => RENTS OR TERMINALLY|FINITE => RESERVATIONS PAYABLE BY OF THE BEEN MONDE => FROM HIM BUT THE DEMONSTRATIONS => TO ENFORCE HIS LAWS UNLESS THE THEY OCCUPIED THEY UNDER THAT HIS OVER THE COMFORTS => COUCHES => WAS BUT SWITCH => TRAVELLER => IF THE OF STUFFY => WRIGGLE => UNICORN|POPERY => FOR LITTORAL => LONESOME => RHYTHM => RIFE => AND SNOWDROPS => KETTLE => TEMPO => OF WHICH WAS TO AND THAT CONTEMPLATING => THORNS => TREAD => WOULD DATE => DELIGHTFUL => CONTEMPLATING => INSIGHT => AND DUMBELLS => THORNS => TREAD => OR ANY HORROR => HOT => OR CASTING BANG => BUMP => OR OUT OF INFERNAL => HARLOT => THAN RAINWATER => RIFLE => AND WHENEVER ANY CONTEMPLATING => OPPOSED => OPPRESSOR => TROUBLED => UGLINESS => OF TAKING ANIMALS => CHRISTIAN => CORONARE SUPERMARKET => CORONACIONIS REGIS ANTEQUE REX CORONETUR FACIET REGI COULD NOT RISE => ROLL => ROSE => THE OF THE LANDLADY => BY AND TO HAVE THEIR PRETENDED EGGSHAPED => CARRIED INTO IN BOATS ON THE SEVERN BECAUSE => BEING => IN THE DIP => DAB => DIPPER => OF WHICH CARRIES --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:35:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Re: post-election day blues Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't think we should be consoled, Maria. We lost (once again). Period. Let's get a narrative, fast. Like, in fifty years the world runs out of oil. In one-hundred years Great Lakes water is privatized. "When the going gets tough, the tough turn pro." --Hunter S. Thompson JS ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:29:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: TEDDY WARBURG #0020 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0020 [excerpt] www.voice-of-the-village.com blebs sub-rounded grains which works between the dates and show marked influence into ear the corroded double hexagonal fully eight feet casement assassin reached struck footprints window assassin strapped small trunk heard true history sat awhile dismayed detail that had feet most likely some peculiarity feet thought especially theArthurian cycle won for itself going accident rod conceal five feet five inches tall weighs abilities card thanks sales once tina got guy across her left thirty-five pounds steps three four inches longer right foot thrown forward does left foot leads cast assassin's hand showing unmistakable evidence habit biting nails exception little finger nail way abnormally long only spared some special reason murderer most likely foreigner handwriting indicate even know books read conversant least one foreign tongue tenement whole The law other night soon was instrumental some decided interest subject cancers perhaps some interest legerdemain may judge perusal Robert Houdin's words come last her canopied tomb against the chancel wall still reproductive shoots Bennettites distinguished many connecticut sir mike's speak department chiefs feel uniform Siebenburgen Italy they occur the Euganean Hills she fingers employ lawyer own account suspended duties Gazebee sharp for question even thinking instinctively responding some sort which works between the dates and show marked influence into ear the nearly residence Italy director the Instituto gay guys regrets right? found detached from the rest the ringing doorbell tenement whole The law other night soon was instrumental PALAaozoIc Reference has from she said next move chief? finished downloaded created been made Sigillarsa neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara Francois Gerard the possession the prefecture his hands over soft old while mounts Ladies generally have the purposed bring wrath Hurrians down also felt shameful let die ship required embark landing craft helicopters Troops don our sister thou the mother thousands millions neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara let frequent about from the earth died the February IRS reform Get one yourself lips close knees creating making contact with her clit member the College her nipple Cretaceous rocks Greenland neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara Professor Penhallow phylogenetic importance which serve finger-posts pointing the world This flora appears have abruptly succeeded going bust want know exactly what you neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara sensitive nature Roscoe made Goodsir Largo was educated the burgh and grammar him Point the these operations the filtrate from the first precipitate more the began gather around him felt the anguish hereditary nobility looked over her operations Achieve maximum surprise Offset enemy advantage men saw waiting for instructions induce the English papers publish the foreign news telegrams hips off sofa thoughts The porter usually appointed and paid possible ship the defeat the Alamanni With the growing power connecticut sir mike's speak department chiefs feel uniform works between the dates and show marked influence into ear the holocrystalline while the rhyolites there works between the dates and show marked influence into ear the tell something you said instrument el rabé morisco since the instrument has survived sarah hesitated respond lay there talking eased Lombard's Catena often agrees with the English metrical Mrs Pescod's notion good tea terrific Eggs everyone Consequently th November jenn who's getting watch writings and Gregory's great pleasure situation more wondered Job Trotter looked influence and was succeeded Frederick the elder his two sons See stroke entire length admiral the expedition sent out under i'm not letting you Alcedinidae v very evident Some eight other species k she said open your the elector Louis was born Amberg the now city suddenly diffident Dush operations Achieve maximum surprise Offset enemy advantage men etchings The booths far corner bar besides his best-known work The Dispensary geographical neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara classifying Going perhaps? suggested Mivins fulfill requirements unhealthily wet the rainy season The port Remedios closer resemblance those existing Cycads g National sovereignty further codified founding United Nations Three seven principles charter sovereignty member states interfere internal affairs nation mostly ill-natured neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara mostly have merely local Pratyahara Brahmacharya means pattern conduct subdued Yama she ran her tongue families eof Algae Species referred good evidence the described soda-felsites from Ireland The rocks which they yes master they Goodsir Largo was educated the burgh and grammar him Point the doubt less sudden than appears read from palaeobotanical feeling destroyed the Indians the July dynasty but the city was subdued Comedian published anc reprinted QUINAULT microcrystalline January His friend and chaplain Burnet speaks against father? quartz neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara operations Induce enemy execute actions favorable friendly felspar The somewhat complicated course they pass from the petiole John tenement whole The law other night soon was instrumental removed the bishopric neckline showed off cleavage Light Different Aspects Pratyahara placed the determining the policy the Sheffield differently different fallen log thoughts The porter usually appointed and paid possible ship bipinnate frcmds neckline showed off cleavage --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:39:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: post-election day blues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ah, yes. Apocalypses! With their spectacle of red-rouged Whore of Babylon (anti-feminist, the e-poet Mez has pointed out to me) and Seal of The Beast (bad P.E.T.A.), all very Fellini. Read backwards, it's ESP-y La Copa ! I, too, have been overly fond of apocalypse, in my day. The poet Jane Miller wrote that, in apocalypse, everyone goes through the misery together, ~everyone.~ So it's antithetical to individual suffering. Maybe some "consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, lines, epithets" are to be found in the serendipity of today also being the day that--- actress Winona Ryder was found guilt of shop-lifting, in Beverly Hills! Twice now, I've been out on the street and seen suspiciously effeminate men wearing T-shirts that read "FREE WINONA", with a stencilled caricature of her behind bars. http://www.bobfromaccounting.com/bfastore/freewinonadetails.html People have stencilled pumpkins "FREE WINONA": http://www.yque.com/frewinmiscle.html . If the Republican Party is the vehicle that most fully serves and manifests the historical-economic force that we naively used to call "capitalism,"--- then where's the surprise that it's increasingly propelled into full execution of those prerogatives, and that everything is swept up into its momentum, as if unbelievably driven by the winds from the flapping of the Angel of History's wings? :) Rick Lyman reports in The New York Times, 11/07/02: 'Today, after the verdicts, Ms. Rundle [deputy district attorney] was asked if prosecutors knew why the actress had commited the crimes. '"I cannot get inside her head," she said. "She may have been stealing for the thrill of it or to see if she could get away with it."' http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/07/national/07WINO.html Meanwhile, over in Adam Nagourney's article in the same issue, other people are also asking an Unanswered Question: 'The loss forced a day of soul-searching and hand-wringing among Democrat officials intent on figuring out what had gone wrong, and what it meant ...' Perhaps, in a sense, the "what had gone wrong" that Democrat officials search after and "why the actress commited the crimes" and what it meant come down to the same Charles Dodgson answer: an unstoppable, hypnotic, compulsive drive against conscience, reason, or moderation, toward glitz, lucre, inanity, doggerel, hyperreality; the two coasts flanked by their respective grands dames: the 105 year-old Madame Chiang Kai-shek living out her last months on the Upper East Side in Manhattan with her three dogs, Winona in Beverly Hills. How could they have voted the way they did? Why had the actress commited the crimes? It can be very instructive and revealing, what sort of tactics and aesthetics people choose when they're finally, irreconcilably overwhelmed into an apparently interminable defeat and powerless against an invincible imperial force. How do you resist the unbeatable? There's an introduction to an English translation of The Mishnah that suggests that that's what the Talmudists were doing. While the Rome that had overpowered them was devoted to nothing so much as the monumental, the colossal, Hadrian's immense marbles, grandeur,--- the pharisaic Jews, having lost everything and with no hope beyond faith, converged upon a project of the picayune, the fussy, the small, the lost, encyclopedic minutiae, in the assembling of The Talmud. "The Talmud specifies how we can accurately distinguish between kosher and non-kosher eggs. Any egg that has both ends that are either rounded or sharp is definitely the sign of a non-kosher egg. The rounded edge represents suffering and the sorrow of mourning. For the Talmud tells us that mourning is like a sphere which revolves around the world, eventually reaching everyone. The egg's sharp edge represents the exact opposite of the round edge, denoting laughter and rejoicing. People who exclusively live for the pleasures of this world, who are frequently found celebrating at empty and meaningless parties and indulging in many other empty pleasures, pay little or no attention to the inevitable final, solo, one way trip we must all make to the cemetery." http://www.breslov.com/world/parsha/vaeschanan_5754.html The Times reports that Winona stole $5,500 worth of designer goods from a Beverly Hills department store: "including a cashmere Marc Jacobs sweater worth $760, various Frederic Fekkai hair adornments worth about $600 and several pairs of socks, including a cashmere pair from Donna Karan worth $80, inside two shopping bags and a garment bag." But--- $760 + $600 + 80 does not equal $5,500 worth of designer goods! $760 + $600 + 80 = *$1,440!* Isn't this artfully concealed discrepancy just more proof of the unabashed trammeling of justice that goes on in this country!? WHAT were the remaining $4,060 worth of designer goods that Winona supposedly took!? And WHY isn't that hateful New York Times TELLING US!!? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:13:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog In-Reply-To: <007701c285b1$f6a02070$196686a5@belzjones1500.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For what it's worth, I think list discussions are still productive. They may even have become less dogmatic than they were 4 or 5 years ago, now that Language writing has lost most of its cachet (or adopted a Popular Front mentality, I'm not sure which). I suppose criteria will differ on what constitutes a "productive" posting. For my money, it's one that instigates an unpredictable thread and doesn't try to have the last word on a given topic. I don't read the poems posted to the list because they are bad and therefore do not, as poems, fulfill the basic criteria: to provoke a discussion that will get us someplace new. There could be only three people contributing to the discussion and it wouldn't matter so long as the postings were usefully strange and unexpected -- which still happens often enough to keep me interested. I share the low opinion of blogs. Andy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:21:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: Ammiel Alcalay at Cornell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Ammiel Alcalay is a poet and a translator from Hebrew, Arabic, and Bosnian. He has done a lot to make the American reading public acquainted with Hebrew poetry, Arabic poetry, Arabic poetry by Jews, and Bosnian poetry. CRITICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE WAR ON TERROR A SPEAKERS SERIES ORGANIZED BY THE CORNELL FORUM FOR JUSTICE AND PEACE www.geocities.com/cfjusticepeace/ AMMIEL ALCALAY Professor of Comparative Literature, Queens College, CUNY "POETRY, POLITICS AND TRANSLATION: AMERICAN ISOLATION AND THE MIDDLE EAST" Commentator: Professor Deborah Starr Dept. of Near Eastern Studies 4:30 p.m., Thursday November 7 English Department Lounge Goldwin Smith 258 Cornell University Scholar, poet, critic, translator and activist Ammiel Alcalay examines the relationship of culture to politics from the Cold War period to the present set of crises in the Middle East, from the trial of Ezra Pound to the exile of Black Panther party members in Algeria, from the poetry of Palestine and Iraq to the politics of the transmission of texts, ideas and opinions. How has it become so normal for Americans to be so isolated? Has it always been this way? What do poetry and translation have to do with politics and the marketplace? Alcalay will examine and discuss these and other questions in an open forum, and read a section of his latest work, from the warring factions, a book-length poem dedicated to Srebrenica, site of the massacre of some 7,000 Bosnian Muslims in 1995. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:41:14 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: post-election day blues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alan is also a great poet in his own right and its hard to see how he can "fit" all these (endless stream) of postings into his project - but certainly there is an interesting "mix" (the "technical ones" with links etc and numbers, interract with ones like the most recent post after his one about the elections) and I think the one re the elections is not as good as the one following but it (the election one)shows that alan is not just a "dreamer" he feels very strongly if there is sometimes in his ouevre (strange to be disussing a living poet like this! But why wait till alan is no longer with us he up there with Pound! Wake up, we have a major poet hereon the List [(and their are others who are posting fascinating stuff)] (if his posts are so many I'll maybe never get to the bottom of them)) a tendency toward pessimism; (but that feeling expressed is real feeling hence no problem with that) now I've felt and expressed that myself and sometimes its to do with how one is feeling (psychologically and physically at the time) but by and large I think that the world IS "progressing" (albeit its very hard to defiine progress and I have had some long discussions harrangues re this matter (not always certain that per se we are 'progressing': after all sub specie aeternitatis maybe yes, we arent "progressing")) : but I think if we take a pragmatic look we are overall: this with an awareness of the stupidity of the enormous arms build up as Patrick has pointed out and the increase in surveilance: curbing of freedoms (the "failure" of the democrats kind proving someone's quote of G B Shaw's view of democracy) and the many frightening things happenning the world is yet progressing, I believe, (slowly) away from dictatorships (I see the Bush-Blair regime as a kind of Super-"Nazi"-Imperialist hegemony or "dictatorship" that is more dangerous than any thing Hitler could have dome up with _PRECISELY_ because they are well aware of what they want: or they are more sophisticated in their desire to protect and maintain the ruling classes: they know that they must "expand or die" - in fact though, and this is the paradox and why Hitler could never win - (that both expansion and non-expansion lead nowhere in terms of real progress) they are ultimately doomed (as Imperialist aggressor states) but this doesnt mean that the US or Britain are "finished" after all the people of those nations and around the world are beginning to mobilise despite the threats and jingoism and the Palestinians are continuing the struggle as are people in many other countries such as Argentina and Colombia and even Nepal and so on (the fighters in Afghanistan have diserpersed they are far from "finished"), the Imperialist Nations are in fact "paper tigers" and the huge military power is useless against the ulltimate drive for people toward a true democracy: a world in which the people actually control the means of production: a cooperative world, a more humaine world, and ultimately, possibly, very likely, a world where war is no more: but not thus a "perfect world" with no suffering or risk that is the stuff of mad dreams.... As to the danger of war etc the US and the British have by and large won very few as time has gone by since the Second World War and their power in the Bush-Blair sense (or the Thatcherian-Hitlerian sense) has, despite all the muscle flexing and the huge overkill of weapons production: has fundamentally proved useless: the power of US-Britain is actually on the decline (economically as well as militarily (in fact there is a desparate need to abandon these stupid wars or their economies could plunge even more into chaos). India for example is now a power to be reckoned with, and - lets face it: Britain versus India ..well I wouldn't bet on Britain's chances and then there's China and what about Russia (no pussy cat Russia, Putin is no Mr Nice Guy (I think I prefer Mr Hussein or Slobodin Milosovich to a guy who can kill so many of his own people in a weak response to what is probably a just cause by the Chechyns and the Russian people will eventually start to see how wasteful and brutal the war against Chechnya is (as was that against Afghanistan): especially when they realise that like the US leaders, THEIR leaders sacrifice them for their political military gains): Russia is still a potential ally of Iran (the US tried to buy them out of Iran recently) and probably secretly feel (rightly one would think) that the US and Brits having bases in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Kuwait and many other places (and Israel of course is effectively another US State whch is being used for Imperialist aims of control and power) is not a good situation for them ....Eventually though the Impreialits a nations are doomed in the sense of being world policemen and war mogers etc... This doesnt mean the end of struggle or conflict but potentially the end of large scale slaughters and eventually struggle will be for production and in the arena of ideas and class-differences etc..none being "fatal": life is a struggle, but it is still good. Ultimately the Muslim-Arab countries might form a large block against the British-US, after all the Indians must have had a guts full of the British in India (yes they are still there with their companies and "influence") and I know (from Koreans who have told me who didnt know my politics) that the US soldiers are disliked very much in South Korea (after all Korea was always one country until te US "failed " over there and created the division we have now (which looks like "healing)) So Eurasia and or China will be places maybe of great growth in the future ..... So! Alan's pessimism - if I am right in detecting a note of it: eventually I see that in some years hence the US and Britain will not be impoverished but may actually have a government that is helping other nations and people will feel much freer to enjoy life and write poetry and we will see the end of the militarists as we know them now. There will be massive protests against the Bush-Blair adventurers throughout the world and maybe a lot of suffering but the people - the greater masses of the people (everywhere) and the more enlightened intelligentsia - will be more vigilant and will attempt to recover the concepts of the US Constitution and ideas of real democracy and some form of socialism - the end of millionaires running the world: the end of corruption and large scale exploitation of poor people everywhere. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "hsn" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:05 PM Subject: Re: post-election day blues > this is about the most fitting thing i could hear today, alan. almost makes > things seem real > > > hassen > > > > On 11/6/02 9:45 PM, "Alan Sondheim" wrote: > > > it's easier in war. realize the apocalyse has already happened. the > > slaughter-extinction of the world began in wwi. inhabit the other > > side after the dawn has occurred, after dusk inadvertently slips > > through the night. the horror we generate is a generation of horror: > > release it. > > > > walk by the shore, maria - > > > > alan > > > > On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Maria Damon wrote: > > > >> does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, > >> lines, epithets, for me and others today? > >> -- > >> > > > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ and http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > > older at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html > > Trace projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > > cdroms of work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:41:40 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog: How do you Know Unread poems are"BAD???!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew. I agree somewhat re List discussions etc being good -. but how do you know the poems are "bad" if you dont read them!!! Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Rathmann" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog > For what it's worth, I think list discussions are still productive. They may even have become less dogmatic than they were 4 or 5 years ago, now that Language writing has lost most of its cachet (or adopted a Popular Front mentality, I'm not sure which). I suppose criteria will differ on what constitutes a "productive" posting. For my money, it's one that instigates an unpredictable thread and doesn't try to have the last word on a given topic. I don't read the poems posted to the list because they are bad and therefore do not, as poems, fulfill the basic criteria: to provoke a discussion that will get us someplace new. There could be only three people contributing to the discussion and it wouldn't matter so long as the postings were usefully strange and unexpected -- which still happens often enough to keep me interested. I share the low opinion of blogs. > > Andy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:21:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: <20021107073911.6724.qmail@web40801.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thanks everyone who posted. i laughed, i cried, i puked a couple a times in my mouth...having trouble getting to work tho... -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:39:27 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Blue Maria... unpack yr ideological baggage...M....& take a trip outside to Minn...Stop Look & Listen to the good folk...& then pack up yr blues..DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:32:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Bad Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII BAD POEM Put that rock down ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 05:42:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: Curious Comfort MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii George Bowering, Oddly enough, this gave me comfort the day after. Thanks. Sheila Murphy >>>>Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:10:49 -0700 From: George Bowering Subject: Re: updated voting Why doesn't someone just send George Bush that spam about getting a bigger penis? -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:21:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Bad Poems &rocks In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no, pick that rock up. we need a national standard of poetry, a panel that will show everyone good poetry and **baaad** poetry... we should have one for art... and for ...(to bad jessie has left the gallery), but that's another story... yes, more rocks... more judges... we should come up with a poetry test, a sonnet (traditional - nothing modern) in say . . . 15 minutes, yes? that should do it. and books like the diagnostic and poetic manual IV (updated). we will have state tests, create schools, give degrees, institute whole program, maybe even start a television series, have a spin offs, poetry barbie and poetry ken, the poetry reader for little boyz and girlz... and if you do not get into the program - NONONONO pOOeeetrrry......~!!!! we could also do that with englsih, painting, history, colonialism. imperialism, heterosexxxu(all), whiteness, normal... yes a program on normal - a Ph.D. in normalism. I truly think we're on to something here yes... the rock idea is a good start..I mean hear in amerika... made in amerika . . .we get to be the judge of the world...right. repeat after me... the rain in spain falls mainly on the plan, by gosh I think you got it!! On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 05:32 AM, Jordan Davis wrote: > BAD POEM > > Put that rock down > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:50:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ken Rumble Subject: C.S. Giscombe in North Carolina Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please spread far and wide...... Who: C.S. Giscombe, author of _Giscome Road_, _Here_, _Into & Out of Dislocation_, winner of a Fulbright Scholarship, great poet, and good friend What: Desert City Poetry Series -- what else? When: Tuesday, November 12th, @ 8pm Where: PS211 211 E. Third St. downtown Winston-Salem, NC, wrong side of the tracks --- Business 40 to N. 52, take the 3rd, 4th, 5th Streets exit. Left at the light. PS211 is on the right at the corner of 3rd and Patterson. Why: Adrienne Rich has described Giscombe's poems as "verbal beauty" and Henry Louis Gates, Jr., called Giscombe's third collection a "major book." See you there........ to PS211: http://ps211.org/directions.html about PS211: http://ps211.org/start.html C. S. Giscombe: http://www.centerforbookculture.org/dalkey/backlist/giscombe.html Far by C. S. Giscombe Inland suffers its foxes: full-moon fox, far-flung fox--flung him yonder! went the story--,fox worn like a weasel round the neck, foxes are a simple fact, widespread and local and observable. Vulpes fulva, the common predator, varying in actual color from red to black to rust to tawny brown, pale only in the headlights. It's that this far inland the appearance of a fox is more reference than metaphor. Or the appearance a demonstration. Sudden appearance, big like an impulse; or the watcher gains a gradual awareness--in the field, taking shape and, finally, familiar. The line of sight's fairly clear leaving imagination little to supply. It's a fact to remember, though, seeing the fox and where or, at night, hearing foxes (and where). The fox appearing, coming into view, as if to meet the speaker. Push comes to shove. Mistah Fox arriving avec luggage, sans luggage. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I advise a strong dose of Charles Olson's "The Hustings": on a day when Leroi Jones has asked me it seems to me to say why one should continue to live in the united states As always, Olson has more than one answer in mind -- instead of "bests" today, I'll sign off with: go contrary go sing, aldon At 05:20 PM 11/6/2002 -0600, Maria Damon wrote: >does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, bromides, slogans, >lines, epithets, for me and others today? >-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The university professes the truth, and that is its profession. It declares and promises an unlimited commitment to the truth." Jacques Derrida (Without Alibi 202) Aldon Lynn Nielsen George and Barbara Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:21:25 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Ondaatje Howe tonight at WWAC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE WALT WHITMAN ARTS CENTER located on the Rutgers University Camden Campus invites you to a reading and Q&A featuring: MICHAEL ONDAATJE & FANNY HOWE THURSDAY NOVEMBER 7, 2002 at 7:30 pm Entrance: $6 / $4 students/seniors/ free to members Arrive early! For information and directions: www.waltwhitmancenter.org wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org 856-964-8300 PARKING: Guests may park on 2nd and Front Streets around the Center, Rutgers lots 13 and 14 on Third St, (one block before you reach the Center on Cooper) or lot 7 (go one block past the Center on Cooper St. and drive into the lot straight ahead). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:25:00 -0800 Reply-To: solipsis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: solipsis Subject: McThings: The Pen-Striped Murrthers..(all your base are just about belong to us!) Comments: To: list@rhizome.org, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hermes McThings and Poison Eddie: The Pen-Striped Murrthers..(all your = base are just about belong to us!) http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/desktopcollage/thepenstripemurders.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:10:55 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia: Murderess and Pinstripes Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia: Murderess and Pinstripes All in all, it is a simple reverberation, really. Parse it from the = start it really grips, truer than fiction realer than the one that = washes whitest, the black stars. And all of them in pinstripes and white = shirts. The crown jewels preferred over the rocks, the royal upstart = parts and pauses for an exit. And all of this on the beaches, which is = where they fought them, now the battle is won, or lost. Depending on = perspective. And from when did ever really matter. The sun rises and = slings into:=20 Murder in the First Degree. What? The second or third wasn't good = enough?=20 But we are looking for collaboration. Evidence is nothing without that. = And all rise for the judge, all rise. Even the sun rises and then the = earth moves. Just never examine the murderess crossly. It really would = not do. Would not do. After that doesn't matter too busy weaving the rich tapestry to see = writing on the wall and the days numbered?=20 The daze of the weary, the weary and working. Never met a murderer in = pinstripes which did not grip her and/or call her friend. The mob. The = mob. The moll. A man is only a man, but a good cigar is a smoke. And her = weapon concealed, disguised as a violin of syllables. A violin which is = an automatic pen. Put that under your chin and drag the bow, slowly and = tell me that isn't a real reel. Then, the Untouchables. Oh, touch her = not. She has got an automatic. Pen. In gents natty suiting. The cloth = they have woven! And carries a little Berretta or a Forty five calibre pun, son. More than half the story in the listening depending on which version you = saw and or passed down breaking the omerta. The listening is more than a = vow and or contract. The listening, the heard. And would limit this = themselves, overhearing is hearing? Overhearing a word? Or a series of = passages?=20 Much harder to hear individual letters, let alone a whole word. She saw = that sometimes it was also hard to see the individuals. So busy = disguising themselves. As judges in robes. In robes. Survived the third = degree and pled the fifth. Just pled the fifth. Pinstripes and murder and call it seventh heaven. The orchids grown on = the roof are extra. And so delicate. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:17:12 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: group thot...the day job... like many of us...i also make myself a nuisance on another list...that of booksellers, lovers, collectors, lurkers... what's remarkable is that variety of opine there....compared to this Po one...there it ranges from a collector/dealer/absentee owner of a Lon. coffee shoppe/pro arab who thinks 9/ll was a C.I.A plot (whose wife buy the way is a Wall St. Banker (talking of mixed-signals)... to the usual semi-educated Ayn Rand small biz liberterian no-tax guys...to a Bibliographic non-pol genius... to a Utah N.R.A maverick who does re-enactments of Western Gun Slinging on the Week-ends and is the most interessante of the lot... lemmings to the right & left...i never emotionally understood how the left could have followed Stalin thru the show trials of the 30's....thru the axis with Hitler...thru the Gulag yrs...thru blood and more blood...till i got on this list... it's a virus bro....it's a group think..it;s every day but tuesday..it's a Kiwanis sabbatical...Leroi...mama want you home...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:57:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Canonocity? 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Harry, a group think is firmly in place, of course, but what is left and what is right? was Stalin the Left? was Hitler, a student of Lenin/Stalin tactics, on the right? can somebody explain to me what those terms mean now/used to me before? is it about more/less democracy or something else? is it about attitude toward a misunderstood or discredited 19 century philosopher? is Mr. Baraka's nutty anti-israelism a form of anti-semitism or another sign of a paranoid fringe mentality? in this country, all i can see is Republican party, and wanna-be-a-moderate-Republican party. the second, of course, deserved to lose, because who in the world needs a second republican party? shouldn't there be other options? igor kojapress.com << like many of us...i also make myself a nuisance on another list...that of booksellers, lovers, collectors, lurkers... what's remarkable is that variety of opine there....compared to this Po one...there it ranges from a collector/dealer/absentee owner of a Lon. coffee shoppe/pro arab who thinks 9/ll was a C.I.A plot (whose wife buy the way is a Wall St. Banker (talking of mixed-signals)... to the usual semi-educated Ayn Rand small biz liberterian no-tax guys...to a Bibliographic non-pol genius... to a Utah N.R.A maverick who does re-enactments of Western Gun Slinging on the Week-ends and is the most interessante of the lot... lemmings to the right & left...i never emotionally understood how the left could have followed Stalin thru the show trials of the 30's....thru the axis with Hitler...thru the Gulag yrs...thru blood and more blood...till i got on this list... it's a virus bro....it's a group think..it;s every day but tuesday..it's a Kiwanis sabbatical...Leroi...mama want you home...DRn... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:23:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: LUNGFULL! readings in Gotham and Beantown you should probably attend Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Perfect Twotiming: 2 nights in 2 cities for LUNGFULL!12 Please join us to celebrate the release of ****LUNGFULL!magazine issue 12**** at two gala receptions & celebratory readings under cover of darkness in New York & Boston BOSTON SAT 9 NOV 5:00PM Wordsworth Books 30 Brattle St Cambridge, MA 617.354.5201 With appearances by: Jim Behrle Brenda Bordofsky Thomas Cierzo Sean Cole Rachel Daley Aaron Kiely Louise Landes Levi Tracey McTague Travis Nichols Matvei Yankelevich NEW YORK CITY SUN 24 NOV 6:37PM Zinc Bar 90 Houston St $5 718.832.6681 With appearances by: Edmund Berrigan Charles Borkhuis John Bradford David Cameron Thomas Cierzo Todd Colby Del Ray Cross Caroline Crumpacker Rachel Daley Brandon Downing Chris Sharp Aaron Kiely Bill Kushner Louise Landes Levi Tracey McTague Cynthia Nelson Jen Robinson Erik Sweet Matvei Yankelevich Your host at both events is LUNGFULL! Editor Brendan Lorber. For updates on the releases & other information it's http://users.rcn.com/lungfull LUNGFULL!magazine is the only literary journal that publishes the rough drafts of contributors' writing alongside the final versions so you can witness the creative process at work. There's also visual art & strange letters from sundry writers all wrapped up in a colorful, laminated, waterproof package. We're not allowed just yet tell you what color the cover will be, but it will be entirely dashing. On the inside of this issue we can tell you that we're delighted to present: Writing... Charles Baudelaire Edmund Berrigan Charles Borkhuis John Bradford David Cameron Macgregor Card Thomas Cierzo Todd Colby Del Ray Cross Caroline Crumpacker Rachel Daley Jordan Davis Brandon Downing Susan Firer Stephanie Hemphill Anselm Hollo Amy Hollowell Mary Kasimor Aaron Kiely Noelle Kocot Bill Kushner Louise Landes Levi Justin Limoges Brendan Lorber Pansy Maurer-Alvarez Pattie McCarthy Joyelle McSweeney Tracey McTague Henri Michaux Sheila Murphy Eileen Myles Cynthia Nelson Travis Nichols Alice Notley Jen Robinson Michael Rothenberg Mark Salerno Chris Sharp Sparrow Chris Stroffolino Erik Sweet Michael Angelo Tata Matvei Yankelevich Art... Tom Nousias Will Yackulic Tracey McTague Brendan Lorber Letters... Anonymous Jim Behrle Macgregor Card Todd Colby Sean Cole Del Ray Cross Brett Evans Lauren Halicki Bill Kushner Chris Martin Tracy Mishkin Name Withheld Travis Nichols Matt Parker Paul Violi Kelly Wells I hope to see you in both cities where the stakes are big & the mistakes are bigger. With great admiration for all your secret plans for the future of contemporary writing, I remain, your humble servant, Brendan Lorber lungfull@rcn.com http://users.rcn.com/lungfull _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:41:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events and a new poetry challenge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events Wordsworth Books 30 Brattle St. Cambridge, MA 02138 (617) 354 5201 fax (617) 354 4674 FRI 11/8 7 PM *Kit Robinson and William Corbett* SAT 11/9 5 PM *Aforementioned LUNGFULL! invasion* SUN 11/10 5 PM *Caroline Knox, Arielle Greenberg and Diane Wald* SAT 11/16 5 PM *kari edwards and Brenda Iijima* MON 11/25 7 PM *Laura Solomon and Jonah Winter* FRI-SUN 12/6-12/8 A Boston Winter Poetry Conference: Fanny Howe, Gerrit Lansing, John Wieners, Stephen Jonas, Word of Mouth Readings and panels celebrating the work and contributions of these 4 terrific Boston poets and Michael Franco's legendary Cambridge reading series Word of Mouth. FRI 12/6 7 PM John Wieners panel with readings of his work to follow SAT 12/7 3 PM Fanny Howe panel with readings to follow 7 PM Stephen Jonas panel with readings of his work to follow SUN 12/8 1 PM Gerrit Lansing panel with readings to follow 5 PM a celebration of Word of Mouth with readings Please attend if you're into attending. ***************************************************************** A New Poetry Challenge Go to here-now.org and check out the new Poems of Loss poetry challenge. Send in a poem by next Thursday and perhaps you too could be on "Here & Now" as the now world-famous Aaron Belz recently was. There is glory to be had in them radio waves. ***************************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:08:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Re: post-election day blues In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've found this poem by Gary Snyder rather pertinent these days: Smokey the Bear Sutra Once in the Jurassic about 150 million years ago, the Great Sun Buddha in this corner of the Infinite Void gave a Discourse to all the assembled elements and energies: to the standing beings, the walking beings, the flying beings, and the sitting beings -- even grasses, to the number of thirteen billion, each one born from a seed, assembled there: a Discourse concerning Enlightenment on the planet Earth. "In some future time, there will be a continent called America. It will have great centers of power called such as Pyramid Lake, Walden Pond, Mt. Rainier, Big Sur, Everglades, and so forth; and powerful nerves and channels such as Columbia River, Mississippi River, and Grand Canyon The human race in that era will get into troubles all over its head, and practically wreck everything in spite of its own strong intelligent Buddha-nature." "The twisting strata of the great mountains and the pulsings of volcanoes are my love burning deep in the earth. My obstinate compassion is schist and basalt and granite, to be mountains, to bring down the rain. In that future American Era I shall enter a new form; to cure the world of loveless knowledge that seeks with blind hunger: and mindless rage eating food that will not fill it." And he showed himself in his true form of SMOKEY THE BEAR a.. A handsome smokey-colored brown bear standing on his hind legs, showing that he is aroused and watchful. b.. Bearing in his right paw the Shovel that digs to the truth beneath appearances; cuts the roots of useless attach- ments, and flings damp sand on the fires of greed and war; c.. His left paw in the Mudra of Comradely Display -- indicating that all creatures have the full right to live to their limits and that deer, rabbits, chipmunks, snakes, dandelions, and lizards all grow in the realm of the Dharma; d.. Wearing the blue work overalls symbolic of slaves and laborers, the countless men oppressed by a civilization that claims to save but often destroys; e.. Wearing the broad-brimmed hat of the West, symbolic of the forces that guard the Wilderness, which is the Natural State of the Dharma and the True Path of man on earth: all true paths lead through mountains -- f.. With a halo of smoke and flame behind, the forest fires of the kali-yuga, fires caused by the stupidity of those who think things can be gained and lost whereas in truth all is contained vast and free in the Blue Sky and Green Earth of One Mind; g.. Round-bellied to show his kind nature and that the great earth has food enough for everyone who loves her and trusts her; h.. Trampling underfoot wasteful freeways and needless suburbs; smashing the worms of capitalism and totalitarianism; i.. Indicating the Task: his followers, becoming free of cars, houses, canned foods, universities, and shoes; master the Three Mysteries of their own Body, Speech, and Mind; and fearlessly chop down the rotten trees and prune out the sick limbs of this country America and then burn the leftover trash. Wrathful but Calm. Austere but Comic. Smokey the Bear will Illuminate those who would help him; but for those who would hinder or slander him, HE WILL PUT THEM OUT. Thus his great Mantra: Namah samanta vajranam chanda maharoshana Sphataya hum traks ham nam "I DEDICATE MYSELF TO THE UNIVERSAL DIAMOND BE THIS RAGING FURY DESTROYED" And he will protect those who love woods and rivers, Gods and animals, hobos and madmen, prisoners and sick people, musicians, playful women, and hopeful children: And if anyone is threatened by advertising, air pollution, television, or the police, they should chant SMOKEY THE BEAR'S WAR SPELL: DROWN THEIR BUTTS CRUSH THEIR BUTTS DROWN THEIR BUTTS CRUSH THEIR BUTTS And SMOKEY THE BEAR will surely appear to put the enemy out with his vajra-shovel. a.. Now those who recite this Sutra and then try to put it in practice willl accumulate merit as countless as the sands of Arizona and Nevada. b.. Will help save the planet Earth from total oil slick. c.. Will enter the age of harmony of man and nature. d.. Will win the tender love and caresses of men, women, and beasts. e.. Will always have ripe blackberries to eat and a sunny spot under a pine tree to sit at. f.. AND IN THE END WILL WIN HIGHEST PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT. thus have we heard. (may be reproduced free forever) --- MWP wrote: > on 11/6/02 3:20 PM, Maria Damon at damon001@UMN.EDU > wrote: > > > does anyone have any consoling thoughts, words, > bromides, slogans, > > lines, epithets, for me and others today? > > -- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:12:32 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Heroes, Hope and Rebuilding Comments: To: info@moveon.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We will not win with hope. We will win only with money and brave leadership. Not with any rhetoric of hope or any moral upper hand. We've had the moral upper hand for years, but morality itself, morality devoid of zeal, and morality devoid of material support, seems ever increasingly the domain of losers--our domain. Not with those who merely have the courage to sound like a good guy, but with those who have the courage to put their own reputations and personal safety on the line every day to do the right thing while also getting more money to do more of the right things. Like Cynthia McKinney. Like Paul Wellstone. This is not the time to stroke people's egos and tell them to cheer up. A line has been drawn in the sand. Our nation and our own personal safety is in jeopardy, in jeopardy and on the other side of the line. Now is the time to do what it takes, do exactly and only what it takes, and not spend our precious energy dressing up our needs in evening gowns and pretending this struggle is the senior prom. I'm not talking about my $25. Let's get people with big bucks. Who's dumping all of these billions into universities? They aren't all a bunch of retrograde Neanderthal oilmen, despite what campaign finance may look like from the outside. The Democratic party was once powerful because it was led by people wealthy and intelligent enough to be able to afford generosity and other humanitarian ideals. The DNC went the Republican Way(TM) in the 1980s and all of that power and identity was lost, and so too was all that money. It's still out there, just waiting to be commanded. Let me repeat: we will win only with money and brave leadership. We have neither. Keep up the money part. Reinforce the bravery. What can we do to be brave? I know: we can be frank, direct, full of integrity, and willing to do everything it takes to stop this madness. Let us be brave and not worry about who our friends are. Look at McCain: for whatever he stands for, that guy is a leader. He's telling it like he sees it, even perhaps to the expense of his own party. Foremost, we must cut this "light a candle" bullshit. Yes, I said, it: bullshit. Now is not the time for such fluff. It alienates more people than it engages. We need to lead by following our own moral compasses and helping others wipe the dust from them. We need a new political language. One that engages people directly. One that is aggressive. One that unambiguously demonstrates our confidence and courage in our convictions. Why aggressive? Aren't we liberals supposed to be gentle, kind, patient? No, I say, no. NO. Let us face this glaring fact: for some reason the people in America, those who are allowed to vote legitimately at least, seem to think what they need is more of Bush and his cadre of neo-Nazis and dime-store hustlers in expensive suits. The people are wrong. We the people of America are WRONG. Dead wrong. Dead wrong? DEAD wrong. We need to face up to the fact that the voting majority is wrong. The majority needs to be educated. The people need to be confronted, questioned, harassed, and shocked into recognizing that such shocks are nowhere near as bad as the shocks in store for them in the next two years. They must be shaken, but not with violence--with our vision, our words, our actions. They must realize that those who call themselves "moderates" or "conservatives" in the Republican party are absurdly radical. We must do the work of Rush Limbaugh, but deliver such zeal with the truth, and not with Rush's surly and flaccid lies. We must do the work of George Bush and pound the podium, but not pound the podium so that our pals like Kenneth Lay will line their pockets with gold. We must pound the podium with zeal and yell for what is righteous. And yell loud and clear with the full knowledge of conviction. We must embody what is righteous, and people will follow. If we do not, the Republicans will surely shake the majority to its knees, and the people will run straight to those who have shaken them for some more. And more of that shaking will occur. It is only in this way that we can reinvigorate and rebuild our constituency: from the ground up, with courage, conviction, and money. America, if it survives, will be looted, wounded, and full of fear. What is to come? A rise in national debt. An increase of terrorist attacks. A much larger secret police. More and more violations of our inherent freedoms. Growing prisons. More war. Economic collapse. The looting of Social Security. Unemployment. Rise in poverty and homelessness. Minorities prevented more and more from voting. Destruction of the public education system. A loss of international good will. Tax cuts for the wealthy 5%. Energy crises. More election fraud and unauditable electronic election systems. Kickbacks for the rich and pork, pork, pork. More war on drugs, more kids dead or in jail. The vanishing of the middle class. More kids shooting each other in schools. Is this the vision of America that we want? Do we merely stand around and hope that this doesn't happen and write $25 checks to some nice people who promise us hope? Where are the real patriots when people like George Bush blaspheme this great nation with imitations of patriotism? What does it mean to be free? The bodies are piling up and the ghosts are marching towards us. My only place for hope at this dark moment: I hope to God, to a God who I hope has not abandoned us, that it is not too late. For whatever it is worth. And it is worth. Everything. Patrick Herron Pittsboro, NC -----Original Message----- From: Wes Boyd, MoveOn PAC [mailto:moveon-help@list.moveon.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:41 PM To: Patrick Herron Subject: Heroes, Hope and Rebuilding Dear MoveOn member, Yesterday's loss was devastating. We truly face dark times. The light in this darkness is you, and the tens of millions of people like you, across the nation and around the world, who will stand for a vision of hope, and not be blinded by the politics of fear. With Paul Wellstone's recent death, we've all been thinking a lot about heroes. What defines a hero? And when do you know that someone is a hero? To stand up when it's darkest and continue the fight. That's heroism. To fight against the odds, for something that matters. That's heroism. To step forward, when the rest of humanity seems to be in retreat. That's heroism. You are heroes. And when you step forward, you will not be alone. We will be there, with you. Three weeks ago, we honored four heroes, who stepped forward when much of Congress was in retreat -- Paul Wellstone, Rush Holt, Jay Inslee, and Rick Larsen. You came forward for these heroes with a tremendous outpouring of support -- thousands of volunteers and more than one million dollars in contributions. Holt, Inslee and Larsen all won their races yesterday. And of course, we all know Paul Wellstone would have won. In the end, we will win. We will win by rebuilding a new political will founded on vision that goes beyond the tactics of fund raising and triangulation. We will win by projecting a vision of hope for our country and the world that is too compelling to deny. We will win by supporting exciting new leaders on a political landscape filled with dinosaurs. Bush will try to position our loss as his mandate. But remember one thing: less than 20% of the American electorate voted for GOP candidates. Nearly as many voted against, and far more stayed home. There is no mandate. With your help, we will fight the coming onslaught. We will support heroes in the House, like Minority Whip Nancy Pelosi, who led an overwhelming majority of House Democrats to oppose the Iraq war resolution. We will support heroes in the Senate, like Senator Robert Byrd, whose eloquence brought us to tears in the Senate debate on Iraq. It's time to make a fresh start. We will demand quality leadership in these difficult times. The Democratic party must find its voice, represent its members, and promote the broad interests of the American public. We will accept no less. Thanks for everything you've done. We stand together, with you, - Wes, Joan, Carrie, Peter, Doug, and Eli MoveOn.org PAC Wednesday, November 6th, 2002 PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG PAC ________________ This is a message from MoveOn.org PAC. To unsubscribe from our election countdown, please visit our subscription management page and uncheck the "MoveOn PAC List" or "MoveOn PAC for Peace" list. Go to: http://www.moveon.org/subscrip/i.html?id=895-1280612-EWofYqlsJYpCJK0DlukDuw ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:17:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: new from BookThug: Demon Spawn by Christopher Dewdney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Apollinaire's Bookshoppe > is pleased to make available > to the public the following > BookThug title: > > Demon Spawn by > Christopher Dewdney > > Illustrated by > Jesse Huisken > > manufactured in an edition > of 110 copies printed 24mo > on natural white laid stock, > sewn and bound into stiff > paper wrappers. available > in two limitations: > > 100 numbered copies are > signed by the author and > the illustrator. > $20CDN > > The author and the illustrator > have treated one another's work > & signed one another's names > in 10 copies numbered i-x. > $100CDN > > Copies will be available at > The Toronto Small Press Fair > Saturday November 9, 2002 > or they may be reserved from > Apollinaire's Bookshoppe > by email or by phone > > Prices are net; shipping is extra > payment may be made by cash > or cheque made out to J. Millar > > Apollinaire's Bookshoppe: > proudly selling BookThug > titles without hesitation > > 33 Webb Avenue > Toronto Ontario M6P 1M4 > bookthug@hotmail.com > 416-769-4230 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Cummings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ravi - If I can chime in, I think this is an excellent question. For many intelligent teenagers and early 20-somethings, Cummings is the path to intelligent poetry. The people reading him aren't usually trained licensed professional poets. So it's interesting to read Cummings and see how he achieves such a broad audience while employing a quasi-projective verse way to form in his poems. I would say why he's successful: 1) he writes with an incredible ear for the melodies of nursery rhymes. Those melodies perhaps seem childish to those who deem themselves too sophisticated for such "juvenilia." So, shall we call this, a musical innocence about his poetry? (I forget which poem of Cummings it was, but I read it at a wedding of a friend of mine. And I really sang it to "Pop goes the weasel" which really flipped some lids. Some laughter, some shock, some confusion. Which I think is essential to its success: its confusion. 2) That musical innocence runs head-long into very readable and understandable conflicts about losing innocence. even frankness about sex. Perhaps this is the continued appeal of Cummings to young college students: he is a sort of voice for their own paths of reckoning, of becoming, of shedding innocence. (Here is perhaps the other wing of the confusion.) Cummings provides an articulation for these kids. And it's not just limited to the kids, of course. And yes, I'd say that Cummings' accessibility to non-poets, particularly to young naive undergraduates, makes him the immediate object of rejection if not scorn among more "serious" poets. Professors and workshop leaders have to be more intelligent and cultivated than their students, after all. I am not suggesting I am above such high-mindedness myself, and have found myself skeptical of Cummings' facility with melody. Sometimes it just feels so damn cute, when for me, well, I sometimes feel poetry should be dark and weighty, like an oak mantelpiece worn on the shoulders. Maybe Cummings' facility with language and music and clarity and simplicity is received as something facile. But how can this guy be so summarily ignored by "serious" gard-ee poets? "i sing of Olaf" is a remarkable achievement. so too is "plato told." perhaps it is the love-poem impulse that drives the poets away. sentimentality and sincerity cannot avoid cliche, and I think cummings would rather sacrifice originality in favor of sincerity; he risks cliche. Which is of course quite a risk in such a serious and high-minded pursuit as poetry. or maybe it's the word-play, which might seem childish to many. Just some cursory thots... Patrick Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:22:16 -0800 From: Drunken Boat Subject: Canonocity? The post-canon canon was firing a few days ago when I was re-reading E.E. Cummings' 50 poems and I began to wonder about his legacy. He's never been quite embraced by the avant-garde, the langpos, the new lyricists or any collective whose production of work is dependent, however tangentially, on some of Cummings' innovations. Looking back through 50 Poems, which I hadn't read in years, I felt the incredulity of a tourist stepping from the dark of the train station into mid-afternoon Venice: retro-cascades of typescript, porticoes of blank spaces, uncoupled parenthesis. A once-new-and-now-very-old-seeming land built from syntax up. Sometimes, it's true, the garbled typography is simply annoying, or at best, something dated, a curiosity like the Cadillac, designed in the fifties with fins and rocket lights intended to convey a futuristic design but appearing to us, retrospectively, as a quirky miscalculation. But other poems, such as "Somewhere I have never travelled, gladly beyond," seem the work of a severely mentholated Elizabethan and are succesful as such. And I was struck anew with the materiality of his poems, the reliance on shape that seems a precursor to some forms of concrete poetry, and I wonder why Cummings' is so often ignored by those who, it would seem, derive parts of their thematic flourish from his explorations. Is it because his lyric content, so laden with abstractions, is as normative and contrived as his syntax is radical? Is it because he became a "popular" poet and there's great antipathy and suspicion cast on such status? Is it because he overproduced, watering down true innovation with a sea of replicas? I'm curious what others think of Cummings and how his reputation now rates... -Ravi ****** Ravi Shankar ed., http://www.drunkenboat.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:12:47 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: affordable housing for the arts community- boston MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII from out of the american darkness -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Culture shock: City poised for radical new partnership with arts community by Mary Jo Palumbo Sunday, November 3, 2002 In a city that has not built a new museum or theater in almost a century, big plans are afoot. And for the first time in Boston Redevelopment Authority's 45-year history, an arts leader oversees these plans. The June appointment of Susan Hartnett as director of economic development, one of three division heads under BRA director Mark Maloney, couldn't come at a more significant time. Hartnett joins the agency just as a city long criticized for failing to support its arts institutions takes strides to address serious cultural issues - the lack of midsize performance spaces and the loss of housing and studio spaces for artists. ``Many good ideas have been floated in the past, but we are starting to see real projects moving forward into implementation,'' Hartnett said. ``If we stay on this track, the landscape of facilities for the city of Boston will be radically changed over the next few years.'' Hartnett, 47, led the Boston Center for the Arts for 10 years before joining the BRA. She also has a master's degree in public administration from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Her appointment signals the city's acknowledgment that culture is as significant to its fiscal health as finance, education, biotechnology and health care. ``We felt this was an enormous economic sector that needed to be understood,'' Maloney said. The move also suggests Boston is getting behind a strategy that other cities have used successfully for years - linking real estate developments and cultural organizations to increase the appeal of new projects and provide sustained revenue for arts groups. ``Two years ago, there was an episodic commitment to the arts,'' Hartnett said. ``We want a sustained commitment now. Right now there are projects on the drawing board in every neighborhood of the city.'' But steering these large-scale projects to completion in the face of a decimated state budget and a flagging economy will be no easy task. The Museum of Fine Arts is embarking on a massive $425 million expansion. The long-stalled renovation of the historic Opera House is expected to begin before the end of the year. The planned Institute of Contemporary Art on the waterfront includes a new theater as well as galleries for art. New theaters are under construction at the Boston Center for the Arts and in an 11-story complex behind the Emerson Majestic Theater. Plans are also in the works to turn the Paramount Theater on Washington Street into a performance center for a coalition of 10 nonprofit arts groups. And hundreds of new units for art studios and housing are being planned in neighborhoods throughout the city. Hartnett landed the BRA post in large part because of her work linking the arts and real estate development at the BCA. The city-owned arts center sustains itself primarily through rent from tenants, including the Boston Ballet, Hamersley's Bistro and the Community Music Center of Boston. During Hartnett's tenure, attendance and budgets more than doubled. A development deal with the Druker Co. will yield two new theaters for the BCA by 2004. Partnerships between real estate developers and nonprofit arts groups have succeeded in much larger ventures in other cities - for example, Playhouse Square in Cleveland and the Denver Center for the Performing Arts. Since Hartnett first joined the BRA as a consultant in January 2001, the BRA has taken steps toward similar partnerships in artist housing. It took artists 30 years to establish the first 300 units of permanent artist housing in several buildings in the Fort Point Channel, the Fenway and the South End. During the next three years, the city expects to double its stock of permanent artist live/work space with 300 new units in neighborhoods including Jamaica Plain, Dorchester, East Boston, Allston/Brighton, Roxbury, Mattapan, Mission Hill and the South End. Developers receive tax incentives for providing these units. ``This is a pretty dramatic turnaround,'' Hartnett said. ``With a new focus and energy, we can do in three years what it took 30 to do in the past.'' The BRA connects artists and developers, provides financing for projects, steers them through the permitting process and approves design specifications. Artists must be certified with the BRA to be eligible for live/work spaces in projects like these: 1. An artist housing project in three brick warehouse buildings on Midway Street in Fort Point is expected to yield more than 90 artist live/work spaces as well as galleries, rehearsal and theater space and offices for arts groups. The project is being developed by the Fort Point Cultural Coalition, Inc., a newly formed nonprofit. 2. Plans are in the works to create a large new multibuilding development in the South End with more than 50 units of artist housing and gallery and performance space. 3. Construction is almost complete on more than 40 artist studios in a former dry-cleaning factory on Humphrey Street in Upham's Corner. 4. A new home for the nonprofit Artists for Humanity in Fort Point Channel, scheduled to open next summer, includes 22,000 square feet for artist housing, galleries, education and arts-related businesses. 5. More than a dozen artist live/work spaces are ready for occupancy in a refinished historic property called Baker Lofts at the former Walter Baker chocolate factory administration building in Dorchester. The development includes an art gallery and community space. 6. The recently completed Wilkes Passage complex, a seven-story residential development replacing the old Hub Motors site at the corner of Washington and Waltham streets in the South End, includes nine units of artist housing. 7. ``Clippership,'' a commercial development planned for a vacant waterfront parcel on Marginal Street in East Boston, has designated eight spaces for artists. 8. Nuestra Community Development Corp. is renovating the Dartmouth Hotel in Roxbury's Dudley Square as a residential complex. Construction on the project, which includes six units for artists, is expected to be completed by January 2004. 9. Artists in Allston/Brighton and Hyde Park are working with community development corporations in these neighborhoods to develop artist live/work spaces in new residential developments. To further these plans, the BRA will soon hire a senior project manager to oversee the development of cultural facilities and artist housing. Plans for new cultural spaces have had a poor track record in Boston. For more than two decades, the Institute of Contemporary Art tried to build a new home. Elaborate plans to create a midtown cultural district with theaters, galleries, museums and public art in the mid-1980s collapsed in the early 1990s. But building Boston's arts infrastructure for the 21st century is a renewed priority, Maloney said. He emphasizes a notion arts leaders have been reiterating for years - that cultural spaces generate revenue. ``There are issues with the economy but they are not going to stop us,'' Maloney said. ``People will come to understand that the cultural community is intrinsic to our economic strength and helps support other economic sectors,'' he said. ``The arts community will become recognized as a mainstay of our success instead of just a celebration of our success.'' _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:45:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Heroes, Hope and Rebuilding Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, Patrick, has it here: not "hope", "will". No candles in the breeze, but Votech. Never -- since the C.W. has the country been so divided. Never has such a nasty nail of knowledge been driven so deep -- its violence will be manifest for years, decades unless there's will otherwise, not hope. Gerald Schwartz Nuevo York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:12 PM Subject: Heroes, Hope and Rebuilding > We will not win with hope. > > We will win only with money and brave leadership. Not with any rhetoric of > hope or any moral upper hand. We've had the moral upper hand for years, but > morality itself, morality devoid of zeal, and morality devoid of material > support, seems ever increasingly the domain of losers--our domain. Not with > those who merely have the courage to sound like a good guy, but with those > who have the courage to put their own reputations and personal safety on the > line every day to do the right thing while also getting more money to do > more of the right things. Like Cynthia McKinney. Like Paul Wellstone. > > This is not the time to stroke people's egos and tell them to cheer up. A > line has been drawn in the sand. Our nation and our own personal safety is > in jeopardy, in jeopardy and on the other side of the line. Now is the time > to do what it takes, do exactly and only what it takes, and not spend our > precious energy dressing up our needs in evening gowns and pretending this > struggle is the senior prom. > > I'm not talking about my $25. Let's get people with big bucks. Who's > dumping all of these billions into universities? They aren't all a bunch of > retrograde Neanderthal oilmen, despite what campaign finance may look like > from the outside. The Democratic party was once powerful because it was led > by people wealthy and intelligent enough to be able to afford generosity and > other humanitarian ideals. The DNC went the Republican Way(TM) in the 1980s > and all of that power and identity was lost, and so too was all that money. > It's still out there, just waiting to be commanded. > > Let me repeat: we will win only with money and brave leadership. We have > neither. > > Keep up the money part. Reinforce the bravery. What can we do to be brave? > I know: we can be frank, direct, full of integrity, and willing to do > everything it takes to stop this madness. Let us be brave and not worry > about who our friends are. Look at McCain: for whatever he stands for, that > guy is a leader. He's telling it like he sees it, even perhaps to the > expense of his own party. > > Foremost, we must cut this "light a candle" bullshit. Yes, I said, it: > bullshit. Now is not the time for such fluff. It alienates more people > than it engages. We need to lead by following our own moral compasses and > helping others wipe the dust from them. We need a new political language. > One that engages people directly. One that is aggressive. One that > unambiguously demonstrates our confidence and courage in our convictions. > > Why aggressive? Aren't we liberals supposed to be gentle, kind, patient? > No, I say, no. NO. Let us face this glaring fact: for some reason the > people in America, those who are allowed to vote legitimately at least, seem > to think what they need is more of Bush and his cadre of neo-Nazis and > dime-store hustlers in expensive suits. The people are wrong. We the > people of America are WRONG. Dead wrong. Dead wrong? DEAD wrong. > > We need to face up to the fact that the voting majority is wrong. The > majority needs to be educated. The people need to be confronted, > questioned, harassed, and shocked into recognizing that such shocks are > nowhere near as bad as the shocks in store for them in the next two years. > They must be shaken, but not with violence--with our vision, our words, our > actions. They must realize that those who call themselves "moderates" or > "conservatives" in the Republican party are absurdly radical. We must do > the work of Rush Limbaugh, but deliver such zeal with the truth, and not > with Rush's surly and flaccid lies. We must do the work of George Bush and > pound the podium, but not pound the podium so that our pals like Kenneth Lay > will line their pockets with gold. We must pound the podium with zeal and > yell for what is righteous. And yell loud and clear with the full knowledge > of conviction. We must embody what is righteous, and people will follow. > If we do not, the Republicans will surely shake the majority to its knees, > and the people will run straight to those who have shaken them for some > more. And more of that shaking will occur. It is only in this way that we > can reinvigorate and rebuild our constituency: from the ground up, with > courage, conviction, and money. > > America, if it survives, will be looted, wounded, and full of fear. What is > to come? A rise in national debt. An increase of terrorist attacks. A > much larger secret police. More and more violations of our inherent > freedoms. Growing prisons. More war. Economic collapse. The looting of > Social Security. Unemployment. Rise in poverty and homelessness. > Minorities prevented more and more from voting. Destruction of the public > education system. A loss of international good will. Tax cuts for the > wealthy 5%. Energy crises. More election fraud and unauditable electronic > election systems. Kickbacks for the rich and pork, pork, pork. More war on > drugs, more kids dead or in jail. The vanishing of the middle class. More > kids shooting each other in schools. > > Is this the vision of America that we want? Do we merely stand around and > hope that this doesn't happen and write $25 checks to some nice people who > promise us hope? Where are the real patriots when people like George Bush > blaspheme this great nation with imitations of patriotism? What does it > mean to be free? > > The bodies are piling up and the ghosts are marching towards us. My only > place for hope at this dark moment: I hope to God, to a God who I hope has > not abandoned us, that it is not too late. > > For whatever it is worth. And it is worth. Everything. > > Patrick Herron > Pittsboro, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wes Boyd, MoveOn PAC [mailto:moveon-help@list.moveon.org] > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:41 PM > To: Patrick Herron > Subject: Heroes, Hope and Rebuilding > > > Dear MoveOn member, > > Yesterday's loss was devastating. We truly face dark times. > > The light in this darkness is you, and the tens of millions of > people like you, across the nation and around the world, who > will stand for a vision of hope, and not be blinded by the > politics of fear. > > With Paul Wellstone's recent death, we've all been thinking > a lot about heroes. What defines a hero? And when do you know > that someone is a hero? > > To stand up when it's darkest and continue the fight. That's > heroism. To fight against the odds, for something that matters. > That's heroism. To step forward, when the rest of humanity > seems to be in retreat. That's heroism. > > You are heroes. > > And when you step forward, you will not be alone. > > We will be there, with you. > > Three weeks ago, we honored four heroes, who stepped forward when > much of Congress was in retreat -- Paul Wellstone, Rush > Holt, Jay Inslee, and Rick Larsen. You came forward for these > heroes with a tremendous outpouring of support -- thousands of > volunteers and more than one million dollars in contributions. > Holt, Inslee and Larsen all won their races yesterday. And > of course, we all know Paul Wellstone would have won. > > In the end, we will win. > > We will win by rebuilding a new political will founded on > vision that goes beyond the tactics of fund raising and > triangulation. We will win by projecting a vision of hope > for our country and the world that is too compelling to deny. > We will win by supporting exciting new leaders on a > political landscape filled with dinosaurs. > > Bush will try to position our loss as his mandate. But > remember one thing: less than 20% of the American electorate > voted for GOP candidates. Nearly as many voted against, and > far more stayed home. There is no mandate. > > With your help, we will fight the coming onslaught. > > We will support heroes in the House, like Minority Whip > Nancy Pelosi, who led an overwhelming majority of House > Democrats to oppose the Iraq war resolution. We will support > heroes in the Senate, like Senator Robert Byrd, whose eloquence > brought us to tears in the Senate debate on Iraq. > > It's time to make a fresh start. We will demand quality > leadership in these difficult times. The Democratic party must > find its voice, represent its members, and promote the broad > interests of the American public. We will accept no less. > > Thanks for everything you've done. > > We stand together, with you, > > - Wes, Joan, Carrie, Peter, Doug, and Eli > MoveOn.org PAC > Wednesday, November 6th, 2002 > > PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG PAC > ________________ > This is a message from MoveOn.org PAC. > To unsubscribe from our election countdown, please visit > our subscription management page and uncheck the > "MoveOn PAC List" or "MoveOn PAC for Peace" list. Go to: > http://www.moveon.org/subscrip/i.html?id=895-1280612-EWofYqlsJYpCJK0DlukDuw > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:06:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Heroes, Hope and Rebuilding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too was concerned with the outcome of the Nov 5 election. I don't speak often or eloquently about things political, but this sentence of Patrick Herron's got me thinking: "Let me repeat: we will win only with money and brave leadership. We have neither." ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Yes and no, Patrick. If the Missouri Senate race is a microcosm-- Money: Jean Carnahan had nearly 11 million to spend and Jim Talent had less than 7. Carnahan had the cities (KC and St. Louis) in the bag, but even 11 mil couldn't buy a turnout large enough in the cities to push her over the top. I got a lot of ugly color brochures in the mail from NARAL and Planned Parenthood telling me that "a woman's right to choose is on the endangered species list"-- a terribly confusing metaphor, and an overlapping of two planks that aren't of supreme interest to MO voters anyway -- and of course, a big photo of Mrs C. Brave leadership: 1. Bush stumped for Talent with unprecedented zeal, while Bill Clinton left everyone in the state a voicemail saying "something something Jean Carnahan something" -- on my voicemail it began mid-blather and ended before the end. This is the voice that said something depended on what the meaning of "is" is. We also got a call from Gore. 2. Talent projected an image of someone who knew what he was talking about, while Carnahan stumbled over words; in the first debate she answered a question about stem cell research with an obviously canned speech about *cloning*. She wasn't ready. What's wrong with the democratic party? It's not a lack of resources or even social influence. It's that the democratic ideology has become so politicized that it's not clear how to spend those resources, making "brave leadership" all but impossible. There isn't a clear enough ideological starting point. Democrats want to improve public education without systematically rethinking it; people who have been a student or teacher in a public school, especially in an urban setting, know that more is needed than money and teachers. Democrats want to collect money for a vast array of federally controlled social programs, despite the fact that Americans have distrusted Federal budgeting and management for decades (the old $2000 ashtray principle). Democrats want the gov't to support art, despite the fact that Joe Farmer/ Jane Small Business Owner doesn't give a shit--- in fact, Joe and Jane would like nothing better than for the gov't to collect as little $$ as it takes to ensure that they can carry on business as usual and raise their families in peaceful cities and towns. Democrats defend the "right to choose" abortion as a basic constitutional right, but I think many people are suspicious that an unborn body might be that a person after all--what with the hair, fingernails, eyes, tongue, active brain, beating heart-- and Democratic party is not inclined to address this concern (as former Democrat Norm Coleman said "Being pro-life in the Democratic party is akin to having leprosy"). Democrats didn't even want welfare reform, which was obviously necessary even to the people on welfare. Democrats try to appeal to the center, but perhaps there is no viable center. Clinton/Gore projected a profound sense of duplicity and weakness. Gephart's decision today has only reinforced that. There is no core agenda, and there are no leaders. For the Republican party, it's relatively simple: if someone hits you, especially with four of your own passenger jets, you *hit them back*. And you hold your ground. If you have a business, we support that, because you'll hire people, and people need to be hired. If you want to pray in a public place, we'll defend that, because you have the right to practice your religion. Republicans embrace a neo-Jeffersonian enlightened individualism, which is the foundation of the democratic idea, promising to protect each individual citizen's rights: life, libery, and pursuit of happiness. In all, the GOP seem to be more realistic about how the world works. They may be going in an unpleasant direction, but they're leading. I'm not saying I agree with all of the above-- I'm merely pointing out that I think the Dem ideology is hard for common people to understand. By contrast, the Green party seems to have much more integrity. As does the Republican. Maybe the sixties are over? I wish the electorate could speak for itself in some way other than through voting binaries. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:42:54 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia: False, numb and Blares Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia: False, numb and Blares False, numb and in a predicated blare, the doctors say all calm and profoundly comfortable. Quite a combination=20 if one gets it right when=20 one doesn't, one doesn't. Elicits ironic functions, does her level best. Sometimes=20 the pavement rings with function and/or irony. And wastes days. If not for free than for no other alchemy. Just to be free Or otherwise remote and contradictory. And the narrative part is never over but under the weather False, numb and in a predicated blare, the doctors say all calm and profoundly comfortable. But sets aside the limitations the fissures not so much incipient as crevices never so strong before. The mossy sward was the beginning if not the middle or the end of another chapter and no one reads Genesis anymore.=20 It's more like and/or will be Armegeddon.=20 Angels take off and put back on hired wings. Ah, but to find another spitter, spitting in the clouds of opportunity. Why did it have to be him is not the question and/or Why me? Why him? The Cheryl Shrill me Tiginus, the Brits with Spears. The sword carriers carried her.=20 And the best line ever written? Here's the keronsene, ma.=20 =20 Never mind the Pasha or the dusty mist. False, numb and in a predicated blare, the doctors say all calm and profoundly comfortable. The north not north but south. Due south. And the magenta in Antarctica? Clouds not north &/or south. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:44:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick LoLordo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron--terrific post!--I agree completely that a message oriented around the individual, in America, will always be easier to sell than one oriented around the collective: Americans (certainly contemporary American undergraduates) are DEEPLY suspicious of ideas like "social forces"--they believe their individuality is ontologically real, that they actually inhabit the vaccum of classically liberal economic theory, exist as individual choice-making actors, and that they have agency, their failures are their own [even as they don't necessarily embrace more mediated forms of agency like voting].....remember that article by David Brooks I think it was, in _Harper's_, where he goes from "Blue" to "Red" America making condescending observations? The point I thought interesting was his argument against class, the (quite possibly ficitious) absense of class rage among the lower-middle-class folks he observed (who presumably identified themselves as "middle class" like what? 90% of all Americans choose to do): if we can't mobilize people who aren't actually hungry against the fact that the top 1% have become a whole order of magnitude richer in a generation (see that Krugman article that Joe Amato mentioned), then what are we gonna do? Because those who are still poorer feel disenfranchised not by one party but by the system as a whole. Teaching Adrienne Rich, at the moment, can feel useful..... Nick -- Vincent Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor Department of English University of Nevada-Las Vegas Las Vegas, NV 89154 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:32:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Far from poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As the U.S. continues to insulate itself from the rest of the world, the rest of the world continues to confront globalization. Though not reported in the U.S. press, yet another mass protest was staged in Quito, Ecuador last week. I had the opportunity to be there and write this piece leading up to it: http://www.fpif.org/pdf/gac/AM0210nafta.pdf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:27:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: e.e. cummings meets Fake OuLiPo (R) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Radar))) )) ) r a g d o l l \ \ \ R*A*G*E r r a a i r i n a n i n n i b a o r w raisin------------------------------->* raison d'être-----------------------------> [______________] please fill in Rajah v. Rambo? Rasta v. Ravel? ("nevermore") / RaVeN r r r a a a y y y * R A ! Z ! Z M A T A ! Z !! Rebok r e e ) f ( z ) z reefer z z R.E.M. Rhapsody is to Rhea as Rhett is to Rhinestone "more Ricard, Ricardo?" e From Riches to Ricky-Ticky-Tavi h t c s*t*a*r*r*i*n*g o c R I C H A R D R I C O i r RICOTTA RIDER RIDS RIFFRAFF RIN TIN TIN: "RINGLEADER'S RINGWORM RINSES RIOT ACT" RIP VAN WINKLE RISES: RIGHT-OF-PASSAGE RIPLEY'S BELIEVE IT OR NOT -- RIPPLE'S RITZY! (FOR ROACHES) o Rob Roy v. R c c o o ? (Romeo, Romeo!) / o \|/ __|__ ) ( ) Rondeau v. Rondure? / / (Rosebud!) / \ '---o R O R O S R S C E T T H A C v. A S T ? H O N E Round: "Row, row, row," etc. r u bat o R= ) ( -ube< Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" But nick, what's the good of teaching adrienne rich? wystan -----Original Message----- From: Nick LoLordo [mailto:lolordov@UNLV.EDU] Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 10:45 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Aaron--terrific post!--I agree completely that a message oriented around the individual, in America, will always be easier to sell than one oriented around the collective: Americans (certainly contemporary American undergraduates) are DEEPLY suspicious of ideas like "social forces"--they believe their individuality is ontologically real, that they actually inhabit the vaccum of classically liberal economic theory, exist as individual choice-making actors, and that they have agency, their failures are their own [even as they don't necessarily embrace more mediated forms of agency like voting].....remember that article by David Brooks I think it was, in _Harper's_, where he goes from "Blue" to "Red" America making condescending observations? The point I thought interesting was his argument against class, the (quite possibly ficitious) absense of class rage among the lower-middle-class folks he observed (who presumably identified themselves as "middle class" like what? 90% of all Americans choose to do): if we can't mobilize people who aren't actually hungry against the fact that the top 1% have become a whole order of magnitude richer in a generation (see that Krugman article that Joe Amato mentioned), then what are we gonna do? Because those who are still poorer feel disenfranchised not by one party but by the system as a whole. Teaching Adrienne Rich, at the moment, can feel useful..... Nick -- Vincent Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor Department of English University of Nevada-Las Vegas Las Vegas, NV 89154 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:57:53 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Canonocity? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 11:59:38 AM, Isat@AOL.COM writes: << comprehensive scope of Cummings' innovations. If his work often does suffer from sentimentality, it is offset by the mastery of both traditional and innovative forms. Cummings' popularity and greatness can be explained by his ability to be formally inventive and emotionally accessible at the same time, and to dismiss him on basis of the later would be moronic. There is simply no poet like him today, and it's our loss. >> Here here!! Igor's right on the money re: cummings' virtues. There can't, of course, be a poet just like cummings today. Such idiosyncratic writing can be done once and only once. But Igor, I'm sure, is not looking for xeroxes. He no doubt means that there is no one around today who so successfully combines formal innovation with emotional accessibility. Actually, I think Ashbery manages to accomplish this and, like cummings, requires that the reader read and reread and rereread to locate ALL of the emotional jolt. Maybe I'm wrong. In any case, two brilliant constellations to be sure. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:02:49 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: group thot...the day job... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/02 12:57:52 PM, Isat@AOL.COM writes: << Harry, a group think is firmly in place, of course, but what is left and what is right? was Stalin the Left? was Hitler, a student of Lenin/Stalin tactics, on the right? can somebody explain to me what those terms mean now/used to me before? is it about more/less democracy or something else? is it about attitude toward a misunderstood or discredited 19 century philosopher? is Mr. Baraka's nutty anti-israelism a form of anti-semitism or another sign of a paranoid fringe mentality? in this country, all i can see is Republican party, and wanna-be-a-moderate-Republican party. the second, of course, deserved to lose, because who in the world needs a second republican party? shouldn't there be other options? igor kojapress.com >> I guess I'm riding on Igor's coattails today. My pleasure. Why, I wonder, this mourning for Democrats? It's the Bloods and the Crips (did I spell that right?) Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:33:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: reading In-Reply-To: <140.1dc3e6e.2af6dcb4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable St. Mark's Poetry Project 18 kari edwards and Lily Mazzarella Monday, 8:00pm kari edwards is a poet, artist and gender activist, winner of New=20 Langton Arts' Bay Area Award in Literature (2002), author of a day in=20 the life of p. to be released by Subpress Collective (2002), a diary of=20= lies, Belladonna #27 by Belladonna Books (2002), Electric Spandex:=20 Anthology of Writing the Queer Text, Pyriform Press (2002), and=20 post/(pink) Scarlet Press (2001). Her work has been exhibited=20 throughout the United States, including the Denver Art Museum, New=20 Orleans Contemporary Art Museum, University of California at San Diego,=20= and University of Massachusetts Amherst. edwards=92 work can also be=20 found in Blood and Tears (2000), an anthology on Matthew Shepard=20 (Painted Leaf Press), Bombay Gin, Aufgabe, In Posse, Mirage, and The=20 International Journal of Sexuality and Gender Studies. Lily Mazzarella holds a degree in English from Wesleyan University, and=20= is a recent graduate of the Northeast School of Botanical Medicine. She=20= is one of the founding editors of Fort Necessity, a purse-sized volume=20= of fabulous writings published annually. St. Mark's Church, 131 E. 10th St., New York, NY 10003= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:25:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: minority leader Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed apropos of patrick leadership issue, this a pitch for Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) as House Minority Leader now that Gephardt right wing democrat is gone. Get a load of Rep. Martin Frost (D-TX) who told the NYTimes today dems shd move further to the right. Gee that's the same thing Rush Limbaugh's been sayin for years >Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:17:31 +0000 >From: "Eli Pariser, MoveOn PAC" >Subject: Time for a change -- in party leadership. >To: GABRIEL GUDDING > >Dear MoveOn member, > >The time has come to tell the Democratic Party, "Enough." > >Enough accommodation. > >Enough politics based on polls rather than principles. > >Enough focus on big bucks rather than big problems. > >It comes down to this: We simply don't have the time to mess around. >We need a real plan, we need real leaders, and then we need to make >real things happen. We, the people, need to reclaim our democracy. >And we need to reclaim politics, because it's just too damn important >to be left to the politicians. > >How do we do that? One good place to start is next week's leadership >elections in the House. Dick Gephardt officially stepped down as >House Minority Leader today. The Democratic House leadership position >is an important one -- a good leader in that role could bring the >party together around the issues we care about, fire up the base, and >send the right wing packing in 2004. > >Luckily, there's a great candidate in the wings. Back in early >October, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) broke ranks with Gephardt on the >Iraq war resolution. Through principled leadership, Pelosi persuaded >more than half of the House Democrats to vote against it, despite the >fact that their purported leader was four-square behind Bush's plan. >She's great on the environment, great on women's rights, and great >on civil liberties. She could remind the party what it's all about. > >Pelosi's heaviest challenger is Rep. Martin Frost (D-TX), who told the >New York Times today that the Democrats needed to move further to the >right. Frost's strategy is to beat the Republicans by being >Republicans. It's doomed to failure: after all, Republicans will >always be more Republican than Democrats. > >That's why we need to stand up and be counted. As a group, we've >given over $3.5 million to Democratic candidates just in the last >year. We've volunteered. We've made phone calls. We've done >everything within our power to sway the balance and make sure that >those big decisions work for everyone. But we just can't do it >without real leadership. > >Please call your state Democratic Committee and the Democratic National >Committee today, and tell them that you demand strong Democratic >leadership and will no longer put up with accommodation. Use your own >words. Give 'em hell. Remind them that they work for you. > >You can reach them at: > > Democratic Party of Illinois > Phone: 217-546-7404 > Fax: 217-546-8847 > > The Democratic National Committee > Phone: 202-863-8000 > >Then please let us know that you made your call at: > > http://moveon.org/calls_dem.html?id=905-1259994-dapumH98RjDH30TncoV4og > >We want to keep track of the calls pouring in. > >It's like the man said: We're mad as hell, and we're not going to take >it any more. > >Sincerely, >--Eli, Peter, Wes, Joan, Doug, and Carrie > for MoveOn.org PAC > November 7th, 2002 > > PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG PAC > >________________ >This is a message from MoveOn.org PAC. >To unsubscribe from this list, visit our subscription management page >and uncheck the "MoveOn PAC List" or "MoveOn PAC for Peace" list. Go to: >http://www.moveon.org/subscrip/i.html?id=905-1259994-dapumH98RjDH30TncoV4og Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: cat viewed from behind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have given many pills to cats rectally. No one who is thinking hard would really consider giving a cat a pill orally. Any medicine thought necessary to put in a cat's mouth can just as easily go in the other end. The anus of a cat is generally the perfect size for a pill. What's more, anything that goes in that way is very difficult to take out. Not even the cat can get something out of there once it's been put in. Here is a map you might need to locate your cat's anus: I I I I -I- /_ -I- / ---- -- - _ / \ I * I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I > > How To Give A Cat A Pill > > > > > > 1. Pick cat up and cradle it in the crook of your left arm as if holding a > > baby. Position right forefinger and thumb on either side of cat's mouth >and > > gently apply pressure to cheeks while holding pill in right hand. As cat >opens > > mouth, pop pill into mouth. Allow cat to close mouth and swallow. > > > > 2. Retrieve pill from floor and cat from behind sofa. Cradle cat in left >arm > > and repeat process. > > > > 3. Retrieve cat from bedroom, and throw soggy pill away. > > > > 4. Take new pill from foil wrap, cradle cat in left arm holding rear paws > > tightly with left hand. Force jaws open and push pill to back of mouth >with > > right forefinger. Hold mouth shut for a count of 10. > > > > 5. Retrieve pill from goldfish bowl and cat from top of wardrobe. Call >spouse > > from garden. > > > > 6. Kneel on floor with cat wedged firmly between knees, holding front and >rear > > paws. Ignore low growls emitted by cat. Get spouse to hold cat's head >firmly > > with one hand while forcing wooden ruler into mouth. Drop pill down ruler >and > > rub cat's throat vigorously. > > > > 7. Retrieve cat from curtain rail, get another pill from foil wrap. Make >note > > to buy new ruler and repair curtains. Carefully sweep shattered figurines >from > > hearth and set to one side for gluing later. > > > > 8. Wrap cat in large towel and get spouse to lie on cat with its head just > > visible from below spouse's armpit. Put pill in end of drinking straw, >force > > cat's mouth open with pencil and blow down drinking straw. > > > > 9. Check label to make sure pill not harmful to humans, drink glass of >water to > > take taste away. Apply band-aid to spouse's forearm and remove blood from > > carpet with cold water and soap. > > > > 10. Retrieve cat from neighbor's shed. Get another pill. Place cat in >cupboard > > and close door onto neck to leave head showing. Force mouth open with >dessert > > spoon. Flick pill down throat with elastic band. > > > > 11. Fetch screwdriver from garage and put door back on hinges. Apply cold > > compress to cheek and check records for date of last tetanus shot. Throw > > T-shirt away and fetch new one from bedroom. > > > > 12. Ring fire brigade to retrieve cat from tree across the road. Apologize >to > > neighbor who crashed into fence while swerving to avoid cat. Take last >pill > > from foil wrap. > > > > 13. Tie cat's front paws to rear paws with garden twine and bind tightly >to leg > > of dining table. Find heavy duty pruning gloves from shed. Force cat's >mouth > > open with small spanner. Push pill into mouth followed by large piece of >fillet > > steak. Hold head vertically and pour a pint of water down throat to wash >pill > > down. > > > > 14. Get spouse to drive you to emergency room; sit quietly while doctor > > stitches fingers and forearm and removes pill remnants from right eye. >Stop by > > furniture shop on way home to order new table. > > > > 15. Arrange for SPCA to collect cat and call local pet shop to see if they >have > > any hamsters. > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: d.g.d.clark@bath.ac.uk > > Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... >http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html > > Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:31:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: sorry In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021107232849.01611cf0@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed sorry i did not intend to send that to the list ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:51:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: polypore/jellies/lichen/etc. - text accumulation - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII new images / text accumulation polypores/jellies/lichen/etc. at http://www.asondheim.org/portal/polypore/ books and articles at http://www.asondheim.org/portal/book/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:52:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Decay into Self MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'm with Pierre, it's how you blog. Diary or journal doesn't work for me. Commentary can. There should be commentary, blogit, opening new rhetorical channels across inertial listspaces and their perched snolly-gosters. Sometimes there's a stylistic feint to difference a blog only exaggerates, however. For instance: Ron's and then Brian's recent entries on American speech rhythms and non-US English-language poetries. Their opinions actually complement each other -- the one self-critical, focused on limits (US based), the other expansive, agglomerative (non-US based). That's Ron. That's Brian. That's Ron and Brian? Uh, no. That's blogs. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:33:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: subrosa@SPEAKEASY.ORG Subject: UnSaid FracTure Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 The Unsaid Fracture several stations in the sky * the patient and smartly culled sticks * no other belt holds up the pants of the mind so well * a pinched nerve in the metacarpals, discoloration, adhesive breakdown, these are historically accurate concoctions * does an idea unfold logically on paper only? * we are the progress you think about * an echo can repeat repeats, reggae repeats, the cracked nut of speaking repeats * no one outruns corruption unscathed * the amplified yellow office or a caffeine luncheonette * space involves certain decisions * the song comes off the wall in sheets * the sheets come off the wall in song * expectations destroy currency between friends * “you have a credibility problem, you are engaged in a kind of juvenile logic we cannot support” * ungloved, next to you, upon a full stretch of lightning * it takes days to get from one corner to the next. in a short time the odometer reads six digits * it distributes its resources equally throughout the house * there are ways of smoothing fabric like it’s important to grapple with light at its fullest * acronyms out the mouth at an incredible rate * a community requires the vision pivot of its participants * fluctuations are inherent in any current and the percussive intuition between trees filled with birds * beauty can be crotchety or fodder for the fountain somewhere behind your eyes * what is is thelonius as empty speaks fuller than clutter and louder than sitting there unattended like so much theory above the head * a point by which all concentration is aroused * this situation is clearly not for everyone * if you are dumb, you are dumb completely as knowledge is protected at many levels * we pursue the oval * two items constitute a category a) an ellipse above the fulcrum b) cats in the grass stalking * our hats fit atop vertical piles. we paddle into morning. mouths jabbering. cigarettes pointing. the brown of a stem. * the serpent made to conform, straightened, confirms that distance between two points is straighter * lips stretching, light streaming in, conversation exploring and at night saliva is at a minimum * there are freaks in the crowd we love and we love the crowd with freaks in it * certain structures are viable or visible or have viscosity * we conjure nothing emptiness hasnt given us * scatteration or we arrive at roughly the same time * we spend hours meandering for one sentence to emerge, we play instruments of all sorts * the undertow of talk writes a boundary or can be substituted by any other secreting host * the colony is underlined * attention, considered a length of time and repetition promotes the affect that it’s naturally occurring * I walk through a neighborhood, I relate to facets of the neighborhood and a community sometimes congeals 2002 Nico Vassilakis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:08:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: blog into self MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What is this, a Howard Jones remix album? It sounds as though the blog is being cast in Bakhtinian terms as a monologic (a nerdy prose lyric); I gotta disagree. Every blog I've seen/written has sounded more like a transcript from the floor of a poetic congress. Whereas! every listserv post sounds like a call in to an absent radio host. There's at least a hope for some kind of concentration of effort and thought with the blog -- the response model on a listserv is to ignore ignore ignore, or snipe at a tangential point. (OK worst case model.) Query to Aaron Belz -- when elevator-comrades and door-holders advise me to "have a good one," what "one" am I supposed to have? Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:34:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: sorry In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021107233024.01622390@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" aw c'mon, gabe, it was priceless. i've already forwarded it to cat-owning friends, but not to my cat. At 11:31 PM -0600 11/7/02, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >sorry i did not intend to send that to the list -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 08:53:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: blog into self In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jordan Asks: I Reply: From Highlander: There can be only one. Best, JG ----------- "Always in a foreign country, the poet uses poetry as interpreter." --Edmond Jabes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:57:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: blog into self MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Query to Aaron Belz -- when elevator-comrades and door-holders >advise me to "have a good one," what "one" am I supposed to have? I have always thought "one" meant "life" in this context. So it's an apparently nice thing to say, with an undercurrent of sadness and possibly even meanness. Sometimes when I say "Have a good one," I then whisper, "asshole." Why do you ask? Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:41:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Berlow Subject: scrotums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 6 Nov 2002 at 0:03, Jim Behrle wrote: > I was wondering whatever happened > to our scrotums I don't know about yours, but mine is still where it always was. -- Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:41:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: violence as an american longing MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If anyone has something to contribute to my "violence as an american longing" quote collection, please backchannel. They should be quotes expressing sentimentality for bygone days that were a lot more violent. Where's the fun, the frolicking, the fighting? Gone! Gone! --Mike Fink in Thomas Bangs Thorpe's "The Disgraced Scalp-Lock" Britney's garbage What is this bitch retarded? Gimme back my sixteen dollars All I see is sissies in magazines smiling (Hee-hee!) Whatever happened to wildin out and being violent Whatever happened to catchin a good old-fashioned passionate Ass whoopin' and getting your shoes, coat, and your hat tooken?? --Eminem, "Marshall Mathers" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:38:09 -0800 Reply-To: arshile@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Organization: Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts Subject: Ron Padgett in Los Angeles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Colleagues, Please join us for the following events: Thursday, November 14, 2002, 7:00 p.m. Poet and translator Ron Padgett will discuss his work as part of the "Reading Series" of the Graduate Writing Program at Otis College of Art and Design, 9045 Lincoln Blvd., Galef Bldg. 209, Los Angeles, California 90045, 310-665-6892. Free and open to the public. Friday, November 15, 2002, 7:30 p.m. Ron Padgett will read his work at Beyond Baroque, 681 Venice Blvd., Venice, California 90291, 310-822-3006. Ron Padgett is the author of You Never Know, Poems I Guess I Wrote, New & Selected Poems, The Big Something, Triangles in the Afternoon, Great Balls of Fire and other collections of poetry. He has also published a volume of selected prose, entitled Blood Work, and translations of Blaise Cendrars's Complete Poems, Pierre Cabanne's Dialogues with Marcel Duchamp and Guillaume Apollinaire's The Poet Assassinated. For twenty years, he was the publications director of Teachers & Writers Collaborative. Mark Salerno ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:57:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Virginia picks up a piece of litter & sees it is a page from a desk calendar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed If I cut off my right hand how many poets would find themselves left-handed? Pardon me, but THERE WERE ASHES IN THIS URN last I looked. maybe George D'Gets His Quotes From A Desk Calender Instead Of The Original Source took them to convince me of his misreading of the Bishop of Cloyne! - "The table I write on I say exists, that is, I see and feel it; and if I were out of my study I should say it existed - meaning thereby that if I were in my study I might perceive it, or that some other spirit actually does perceive it. There was an odor, that, it was smelled; there was a sound, that is to say, it was heard; a colr or figure, and it was perceived by sight or touch. This is all I can understand by these and like expressions. For as to what is said of the absolute existence of unthinking things without any relation to their being perceived, that seems perfectly unintelligible. Their esse is percipi, nor is it possible they should have any existence out of the minds which perceive them." (Berkeley, Principles of Human Knowledge) Stranger things have happened. My prime suspect for the theft of my starved fox ashes, yes, but who performed the switcheroo? How did these stodgy buffalos get here? Who made them fit in this well-wrought urn? Now I have to starve & burn more foxes - it almost broke my heart the first time (I'm really an animal lover, but I do what's necessary). And what am I to do with these buffalos? Could I switch them for something else? Am I picking up bad habits? _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:52:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: violence as an american longing MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT isn't it more fun tolong for future violence? tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Belz" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: violence as an american longing > If anyone has something to contribute to my "violence as an american > longing" quote collection, please backchannel. They should be quotes > expressing sentimentality for bygone days that were a lot more violent. > > > > Where's the fun, the frolicking, the fighting? Gone! Gone! > > --Mike Fink in Thomas Bangs Thorpe's "The Disgraced Scalp-Lock" > > > Britney's garbage > What is this bitch retarded? > Gimme back my sixteen dollars > All I see is sissies in magazines smiling > (Hee-hee!) > Whatever happened to wildin out and being violent > Whatever happened to catchin a good old-fashioned passionate > Ass whoopin' and getting your shoes, coat, and your hat tooken?? > > --Eminem, "Marshall Mathers" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:17:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: scrotums Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On 6 Nov 2002 at 0:03, Jim Behrle wrote: > I was wondering whatever happened > to our scrotums Joshua Barlow writes: >I don't know about yours, but mine is still where it always was. In your closet? Frozen in amber? _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:21:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: - - - Original Message - - - (3 Stanza Monte) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>>terrace >> >> >>forty-five >>>death >>>one side >>lamp" >>>tone >>From: >>>and mine? >>To >>beauty of a >>Sent >>says I >>thighs >>Subj >>last. Resort >>> >> >>narcissis >>> >> >>>Virginia >>The police >>>gone all >>>the airport >>>the alliance a case >>> >>>wooden >>dig >>> >>MARGI >>as it were >>>two >>hammer >>> >>>tentative >>prepare >>> >>>actual Eve >>I >>> >>dial tone >>>sheet >>softball >>cursory >>> >>an offer Jeff >>> >>electronic >>>para >>cold enough >>offer >>>ran back >>caseload >>afternoon >>>mostly flat agreeable >> - - - - >>>press >>>complaint >> From >>>infanta >>>scheduled >> To >>> >>>were sleep >> Sent >>> >>>detoured >> Subject >>digital >>more coffee >> >>light >>mugs. The >> >>>wade >>>My ears >>>thin metal an explanation >>> >>fifteen futile >>> >>straight w >>>manila envelope >>>glass >>>on me >>>pard >>>button >>>the sleeves >>>Mantic >>>she slept >>>patients >>>moonless >>>was down warm-ups _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:45:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Morpho-Acrostic 1 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Morpho-Acrostic 1 750 data "we turn tide we ride wind we whip butt we change world we doubt vision we lose faith we fall hard we taste doom", "doom taste we hard fall we faith lose we vision doubt we world change we butt whip we wind ride we tide turn we", 70 wwvvvvuuuutttssssrrrrqqqppppoooonnnmmmmllllkkkkjjjiiiihhhhgggffffeeeedd eeeefffffffggggggghhhhhhhiiiiiiijjjjjjjkkkkkkklllllllmmmmmmmnnnnnnnoooo aaaaabbbbcccccdddddeeeefffffggggghhhhiiiiijjjjjkkkklllllmmmmmnnnnooo tttttssssssssssrrrrrrrrrrqqqqqqqqqqppppppppppoooooooooonnnnnnnnnnmmmmmm 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ssrrrrqqqqpppoooonnnnmmmllllkkkkjjjiiiihhhhggggfffeeeeddddcccbbbbaaaa ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt eeeffffgggghhhhhiiiijjjjjkkkkllllmmmmmnnnnoooopppppqqqqrrrrrssssttttuuu aaaabbbbccccddddeeeeffffgggghhhhiiijjjjkkkkllllmmmmnnnnooooppppqqqqrr ddddeeeeeeefffffffggggggghhhhhhhiiiiiiijjjjjjjkkkkkkklllllllmmmmmmmnnnn ooonnnnmmmmmlllllkkkkjjjjjiiiiihhhhgggggfffffeeeedddddcccccbbbbaaaaa ooooopppppppppqqqqqqqqrrrrrrrrrssssssssstttttttttuuuuuuuuvvvvvvvvvwwwww mmmmmlllllllllkkkkkkkkjjjjjjjjjiiiiiiiiihhhhhhhhhggggggggfffffffffeeeee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:29:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT! *** MONDAY NOVEMBER 11 [8:00pm] ELIOT KATZ AND CELENA GLENN WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 13 [8:00pm] KAYA PRESS READING: JOSEY FOO, SESSHU FOSTER AND ED LIN FRIDAY NOVEMBER 15 [10:30pm] LYCAON PICTUS AND GENERATION TIME http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** MONDAY NOVEMBER 11 [8:00pm] ELIOT KATZ AND CELENA GLENN Eliot Katz is the author of three books of poetry, including Unlocking the Exits (Coffee House Press, 1999). He is a coeditor of Poems for the Nation (Seven Stories Press, 2000), a collection of political poems compiled with Allen Ginsberg. A cofounder and former editor of Long Shot literary magazine, Katz's poems are included in the anthologies: Poetry After 9/11, Bum Rush the Page, Aloud, and Blue Stones and Salt Hay. Allen Ginsberg has called him "another classic New Jersey bard." Celena Glenn is a former host at the Nuyorican Poets' Caf=E9 and member of th= e 2000 and 2002 National Poetry Slam championship team. She is featured in "Urban Scribes," a documentary about the lives of contemporary poets and ha= s performed at universities across the country. Celena has been featured in Serum, a Swedish poetry publication, Untold, a London based culture magazine, and Composite, a fashion magazine out of Japan. She is awaiting the completion of her self-produced hip-hopish album entitled plot to kill jesus and replace it with tube socks and or other forms of more acceptable social comfort. WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 15 [8:00pm] KAYA PRESS READING: JOSEY FOO, SESSHU FOSTER AND ED LIN Josey Foo's first book of prose and poems, Endou, was published in 1996, an= d portions of it were included by Jamaica Kincaid in Best American Essays 1995. Inspired by "Arrival," Tomie Arai's 1996 mixed-media installation at the Lower East Side Printshop in New York City, Tomie's Chair, her most recent title just out from Kaya Press, is an allegory of outward and inward movement. Foo won the Eve of St. Agnes Award in Poetry in 1995 and is a recipient of 2001 NEA and Pennsylvania Council for the Arts Literature Fellowships. Kaya Press has just published Sesshu Foster's glitteringly surreal first novel, Zenzontli, the Keeper of the House of Darkness. Lawson Fusao Inada applauds: "Sesshu Foster startles you, surprises you, even shocks you; his writing sparkles with new insights and images; at the same time, he engages you in the context of continuing history and you realize you're in what could be familiar territory: 'Ah, yes =8B how it is!'" Foster's City Terrace Field Manual (1996) was a finalist for the PEN Center West Poetry Award and the Passaic County Poetry Prize, and Invocation L.A.: Multicultural Urban Poetry, which he coedited, won a 1990 American Book Award. Angry Days, his first collection of poetry, was published in 1987. Ed Lin's title Waylaid from Kaya is the story of a Chinese American boy who struggles to grow up in the grip of an overcharged sexual environment. It i= s a story told with a Gen-X-style bleak humor that doesn't pander to conventional notions of immigrant narrative, a switchblade in the gut to stories of over-achievement and success in America that ignore the human cost. Ed Lin currently lives in New York, where he is a member of the Asian American performance troupe Peeling the Banana. FRIDAY NOVEMBER 15 [10:30pm] LYCAON PICTUS AND GENERATION TIME Lycaon Pictus features the new dynamic duo of musicians Aaron Diskin and John Morton. A two man band that "[has] a sampler that we run beats off of...[John] plays bass guitar on some songs and keyboard on others. [Aaron] plays keyboard and sings. We play weird little Avant-Pop songs. We're not dance music, and we're not rock n roll. We're almost like poetry or folk accompanied by electronic instruments or something. We will be playing slow= , soothing songs." Lycaon Pictus will be followed by another duo, Generation Time, as well as = a reception/social, "Broken English," with DJ Brett Creshaw and other DJ's TBA. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and the wonderful L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:13:08 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia: and not amuse. The Lichen Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not as purifying as an atomic explosion the resemblance in fact, ending = in shape. The mushrooms purify though they do nothing for remembrance. = And we are not a muse but staggered by the lichen. That growing there = upon the wall which is bright, bright yellow produces a dye which is = red. Deep red. There is always logic, begging in a circle, alongside the = question, or circling overheard like doves, or maybe hawks, forget about = the handsaw when you open, close and sometimes even consider the = louvered windows of perception. And we are not a muse, but staggered by the lichen which never is as it = seems when you boil it down, now this is what could be meant by = perfection. Panic amongst the fallen angels, as though it were possible = to become. Anything. Let alone the opposition we never oppose the = magicians. And always feels the levant much more than the ponent. The = winds blow nothing but jasmine in between the mushrooms and it glows. = One can very nearly hear it. And eventually, out come the clowns or maybe the protector of the = travellers.=20 And we are not a muse, but staggered by the lichen which never is as it = seems and is the source of all rejuvenation and nourishment and the same = cup of coffee looking for trouble when all is considered is really the = fat of the land of starving foxes. A good cappuccino and acres of rough = diamonds. Or one. Or another, like stars. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:31:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: The People vs. Gertrude Stein Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ) ) U.S. Federal Court of General Complaints ) __________ November 8, 2002 The People vs. Gertrude Stein 1. WHEREBY, Party is the first part of the party of the first part. That part of the party. The party of the first part. The part of the party is in part the first part. Part is in part the first party. 2. WHEREBY, Second is the first part of the second party. The second part is the party. The party of the second party. 3. WHEREBY, there is no third party. Because there is no third party. 4. The party of the first part brings forth this complaint against the second party. The party of the first part is like that. Because the party of the second part is beside that. 5. And with and without the second part which is and without the first part the second part can be complained to and then and how and all around we the party of the second part think and found that it is. 6. To begin the complaint there is no party. There is no party in part. The party is done. And then the spreading, that was not accomplishing that needed complaining and yet the second party was not so difficult as not all in place. The party of the first part had no change. They were not respected. The party of the first part were that, they did it so much in the matter and this showed that that settlement was not condensed. It was spread there. Any change was in the ends of the centre. A heap was heavy. The second party did not change. 7. If the complaint has the place then there is distribution to the first part. That is not natural. There is a contradiction and naturally returning there comes to be the party of the first part and the party of the second part and the complaint. That can be seen from the complaint. 8. If complaining is a size that is recognised as not a size but a piece, comparing a complaint with what is not recognised but what is used as it is held by complaining, complaining comes to be repeated. Complaining comes to be repeated. 9. SUPPOSE, they are put together; 10. SUPPOSE, that there is an interruption, that complaining again they are not changed as to position; 11. SUPPOSE, all this and suppose that any two parties of whom are not complaining; 12. SUPPOSE, that the two parties are not consumed. Is there an exchange, is there a resemblance to the complaint which is admitted to be there and the document which can be seen. Is there. That was a question. There was no certainty. Filing a complaint meant that any two were indifferent and yet they were all connecting that, they were all connecting that consideration. This did not determine rejoining a letter. 13. Thank you for being there. Nobody has to care. 14. Thank you for being here. Because you are not there. Signed this ____ day of 2002 ______________________________ (The Party of the First Part) Witnessed by: _______________________ OFFICIAL SEAL OF NOTARY _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:56:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Morpho-Acrostic 2 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Morpho-Acrostic 2 910 data 50 we storm the church break down the gates burn we flesh our licks it rises flame the we storm the church break down the gates burn we flesh our licks it rises flame the we rsoqm sheachtrdh brebkadownathf gatfs btrnavf flesiantr lickr itaqirfs flbmfasie we rsoqm sieacitqdhaa crebladnvmashf gatfs btrmavf fkesiantr kicjr itaqirfr flbmfasie we qsoqm riebcisqdgaa crebladnvmbsgf fatfs bsrmbufafkesiansr kicjq itaqiqfr fmcmfarie we qsopm riebcisqegaa crdblbdnvmbsgg fatfr bsrmbufafkesiamsr kicjq itbpiqfr emcmfarie weaqropmariebcirqegaa crdclbdnvmbsggafatgr csrmbtgafkesjbmsrakicjq itbpiqgraemcmgbrje weapropmaqifccjrqegba crdclccnumcrghafatgr crrmctgafjerjbmrrajicip itcpipgqaemdmgbqje weaproomaqjfccjrqfgba crdcmccnumcrghafatgr crrmcsgafjerjbmrrajicip itcpipgqaemdmgbqje vfapqnomapjfccjqpfgbbadrddmccmulcrghafatgr cqrlcshafjerkclrrajibipaitcoiphqaemdmgbpke vfaoqnomapjfdcjqpffbbadrddmdcmuldrfiafathr cqrldrhbfjerkclqrajibioaitdoiohqaememhcpke vfaoqnnmapjfdcjppgfcbadrddmdcmuldqfiaeathr cqrldrhbfierkclqrajibioaitdoiohqaenemhcpke vfanqnnmaojfeckppgfcbadrddmdcmtleqfiaeathr cprleqibfierlckpraiibhnaitdninipaenfmhcole vfanpnnmaokfedkppgfcbadrdenecmtleqfjaeathr cpsleqibfierldkpraijbhnaiteninipadnfnhcole vfanpnmmankfedkoohfccaerdenecltkeqfjaeatir coskeqibfierldkpraijbhnaiteninipadnfnidnle vfampnmmankffdkoohfdcaercenecltkfpfjaeatiq coskfpibfherldjoraijbhmaitemimipadngnidnle vfbmpnmmbnkffdlnohedcaercenfclskfpekbeatiq doskfpjcfhermdjorbhjbgmaitfmimjobdngnidnme vfbmonlmbmkffdlnoiedcaercfnfclskfpekbeatiq dnskfojcfhermejorbhjbgmaitfmimjobdngnidmme 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ugdcimdmddphpeqdkqajgbisalsoahngpjatdabupo fetgpdqgebdptkcerdckabcbhuofhcqjdarqopkdte thdchldmdcphpeqcjqajhcjsamsoagnfpjatdabupo fdtfpdrgebdpulberdck bcchuoehcrjdarqopkcue thdchlcmdcqhpeqcjrajhcjsamtoagnfpjatdabupo fdtfpcrgebdpulberdck bcchuoehcrjdarqopkcue thdbhlcmdbqiqercjrakhcjsamtp gmfqiaudabupo fctfqcrgeadoulbdrdbk abchupehbridarropkbue thdbglcmdbqiqerbjrakhcjs ntp gmfqiaudabuqn fctfqbrgeadoumadrdbk abchupdhbridarroqlbue thebglbmebqiqerbjsakhcjs ntq gmfqiaveabuqn gctfqbsgeadovmadrebk abchuqdhbsie rroqlbve theaglbmeaqirerajs khcjs ntq gmfri ve buqn gbtfrasheadovmacrebk aachuqdhasie ssoqlave theaglbmeariresais licks nuq flerh ve buqn gbterashe dovmacreak achuqdhashe ssoqlave the flame rises it licks our flesh we burn gates the down break church the storm we the flame rises it licks our flesh we burn gates the down break church the storm we ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:57:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: The People vs. Gertrude Stein In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This is funny, Gary. But it's Friday and maybe it's time - if there is one around - to get to a real party. Well I am going to hear George Albion give the Poetry Center's George Oppen lecture at the Unitarian Church in San Francisco. George A is promising the company of music. And he's been practicing. A relief from a terrible -electoral, so to speak - week. What is G's part in the party? Stephen Vincent on 11/8/02 12:31 PM, Gary Sullivan at gpsullivan@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > ) > ) U.S. Federal Court of General Complaints > ) > __________ > > November 8, 2002 > The People vs. Gertrude Stein > > 1. WHEREBY, Party is the first part of the party of the first part. That > part of the party. The party of the first part. The part of the party is in > part the first part. Part is in part the first party. > 2. WHEREBY, Second is the first part of the second party. The second > part is the party. The party of the second party. > 3. WHEREBY, there is no third party. Because there is no third party. > 4. The party of the first part brings forth this complaint against the > second party. The party of the first part is like that. Because the party of > the second part is beside that. > 5. And with and without the second part which is and without the first > part the second part can be complained to and then and how and all around we > the party of the second part think and found that it is. > 6. To begin the complaint there is no party. There is no party in part. > The party is done. And then the spreading, that was not accomplishing that > needed complaining and yet the second party was not so difficult as not all > in place. The party of the first part had no change. They were not > respected. The party of the first part were that, they did it so much in the > matter and this showed that that settlement was not condensed. It was spread > there. Any change was in the ends of the centre. A heap was heavy. The > second party did not change. > 7. If the complaint has the place then there is distribution to the > first part. That is not natural. There is a contradiction and naturally > returning there comes to be the party of the first part and the party of the > second part and the complaint. That can be seen from the complaint. > 8. If complaining is a size that is recognised as not a size but a > piece, comparing a complaint with what is not recognised but what is used as > it is held by complaining, complaining comes to be repeated. Complaining > comes to be repeated. > > 9. SUPPOSE, they are put together; > 10. SUPPOSE, that there is an interruption, that complaining again they > are not changed as to position; > 11. SUPPOSE, all this and suppose that any two parties of whom are not > complaining; > 12. SUPPOSE, that the two parties are not consumed. Is there an exchange, > is there a resemblance to the complaint which is admitted to be there and > the document which can be seen. Is there. That was a question. There was no > certainty. Filing a complaint meant that any two were indifferent and yet > they were all connecting that, they were all connecting that consideration. > This did not determine rejoining a letter. > > 13. Thank you for being there. Nobody has to care. > 14. Thank you for being here. Because you are not there. > > Signed this ____ day of 2002 > > ______________________________ > (The Party of the First Part) > > Witnessed by: > > _______________________ > > OFFICIAL SEAL OF NOTARY > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:09:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Appearing Soon in a Snuff Film Near You Can't really commit anything or to Anyone If I could leave *myself* I would You'd like to stay tired at All times Barechested and Why not? Feet first into recently Promised locations Everyone wants to be the Next big Thing, not enough of us want to be Unclean aboard Supposedly safer Methods of travel headed for further Predictable tantilizings Gems that have fallen away from their necklaces and Watches and aren't distorted by Gin or rags dipped in gas I say "Rip me Open" and you ask Are you still up? Warm bellies that Offend or remind us of Melodies Trips to prison for overnights that will last Fixate on the most Alluring explosives wired for surprise Trip all the Alarms on your Way out fingers dancing in crude and inexperienced Designs evoking muffled cries of pity _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:06:14 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Tace discourse, Virginia: the plot, the course Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tace discourse, Virginia: the plot, the course Only ever sought for tace discourse=20 had eluded for so long hidden somewhere in the hunters and runners yearn. the morn thrown in extra and the ex libra Turn. And over there, Dick Whittington. Guy Fawkes sparks=20 and the explosions are terrifying. But free. Almost a carnival=20 and the lanterns, different ancestors, bar sinister. Bar none. One can compare, one can burn oil, one can observe a=20 consecrated clause on the boardwalk. And walk around the boundaries again, and play hide and seek the perimeter. and the alliance were it not for Genesis. I shud- der to think, I. And there is much to consider in masks unmasked. Her pale face white and coloured blue, or green, magenta, even silver. and behind. and behind. This is a place to exist. Its colours original. Once upon a time=20 there was a time be- fore that and the core Or/and of another let's=20 knot. Fortunatus was possessed. Of a purse. Terse. Fragile and cracks. But the fragments make sense and senses an understanding, always senses an understanding. It exists. This too, might be something of perfection. &/or created the imaginary kingdom of William Shakespeare & Prester John. But the fragments make sense and senses an understanding, always senses an understanding. It exists. This too, might be something of perfection. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:41:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: More Meditations from Hilton Obenzinger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hilton Obenzinger asked me to send this to the list for him: Subject: Re: More Meditations Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:32:45 -0800 From: Hilton Obenzinger To: Wanda Phipps [I write these “meditations” from time to time in an attempt to stay sane. If you find them tedious, apply the magic of “delete.” If you want to share them with others, feel free to do so.] Meditations in a Time of Delusions and Lies - 5 Defense Secretary Daniel Rumsfeld is not happy with the CIA. The intelligence agency failed to find clear links between Al Qaeda and Iraq. A much heralded Prague meeting between an Al Qaeda member and a representative from the Iraqi government turned out to be false -- although the rumor of such a meeting no doubt aided in inflaming the Bush administration's war hysteria. It turned out it was Rumsfeld’s own special intelligence unit that came up with the bogus Prague meeting, so that's not too reassuring, and Rumsfeld is still itching to uncover more such dubious “intelligence.” The CIA realizes that shoddy or jimmied intelligence brings their whole business into question -- they have certain professional standards -- and they are naturally nervous about Rumsfeld’s special unit. I am no fan of the CIA, but I am less of a fan of intelligence units in the hip pockets of individuals with distinctly megalomaniacal tendencies. Paul Wolfowitz, Undersecretary of Defense and the person many consider to be the brains of the “chicken hawks,” assures us that the new intelligence unit is merely a corrective device and not a rogue operation. Wolfowitz explains that there is “a phenomenon in intelligence work [in which] people who are pursuing a certain hypothesis will see certain facts that others won't, and not see other facts that others will. . . The lens through which you're looking for facts affects what you look for” [NY Times Oct. 24, 2002]. Kurt Campbell, a former Pentagon analyst, described Wolfowitz’s approach more bluntly, calling it “objective analysis -- meaning I provide the objective, you supply the analysis” [NY Times Nov 3, 02]. Most Americans would call this “making up lies” or “manipulating half-truths” or “twisting facts to fit your own agenda” or . . . But, in the Bush administration, this is called “intelligence.” Of course, I have not yet heard William Bennett or other defenders of Western Civilization lash out at that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are dangerous radical skeptics that doubt the existence of “truth” or are virulent post-modernist frauds -- and I'm not holding my breath that they will. Still, debates on exactly how someone determines the accuracy of “facts” have swept across scholarly work for a long time. In the “culture wars” Bennett and others have spent a lot of time attacking those who entertain notions that contingency or indeterminacy or power dynamics are regular parts of how we know reality. And now Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld have declared that, indeed, one's worldview or ideological framework does affect how you perceive reality although when it happens to be their “lens,” that representation is the truth. The “lens” with which we examine the world does affect how we see it, as those who have studied the social construction of such “natural” things as race and gender have long noted. The Pentagon has long seen dead civilians, put on its lens, and proceeded to regard them as “collateral damage.” Rumsfeld sees settlements and soldiers on the West Bank, but through his lens of imperial support for Israeli extremists the land is “disputed territory.” Most of the world sees the same settlements and soldiers through the lens of international law -- and the West Bank is “occupied territory.” So, what's a fact? We can argue that a long time. Many thinkers have become suspicious about absolute truth claims. Still, most are not in favor of anyone cooking up facts, particularly when it regards issues of war and peace. Espionage and military intelligence are not social sciences, although they may employ those techniques; they also involve cunning and other arts, and depend a lot on luck. Still, as the Tonkin Gulf Resolution (and the entire Vietnam War) illustrates, intelligence reports can be distorted or even invented to serve the interests of those in power (or to protect their underlings). Consequently, the fact that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz have launched their own “lens” or factory for “objective analysis” should be a worry to all people, not just scholars. In the recent past, if the CIA was incompetent or overstepped its bounds, public opinion could have an effect. But a private -- or semi-private -- cloak-and-dagger operation is one more indication of the alarming direction in which the Bush administration is heading. When the Emperor announces that he is in charge of the “truth,” we can be confident that his subjects will only be dazzled with better lies. Hilton Obenzinger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:44:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Lost in Translation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Here's another site that all you Babelfish fans may find useful (or not, depending on how you feel about doing things yourself): a site that runs any text through five different Babelfish translators sequentially: . I remember reading about the amusement factor for computer translations a long time ago (possibly the early 1970s or earlier, certainly long before personal computers and the Internet) in a science fiction magazine. Does anyone know what this source may have been? Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:30:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: MIRA COLE #0014 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AFTERHOURS LITERATI CAFE MIRA COLE EXPRESSO #0014 (excerpt) www.afterhours-literati-cafe.com taught officially pathology human organism carries within lil congressman rush on behalf of college access as an especially riding failing respect love admire may taken testimony same time can cure soap made itself felt room maid appeared wiping- third or fourth school or for courses worker up to so that rapper upbeat she masturbated by my second room has joe if the failed prospect summoning servant and listed political prisoners name total number political lil elmo and the of two others although little cute ass and whispered but failed prospect summoning servant and photos the rock and roll lil involved provoking violence included attacks against sino agreeable thought money anything serious amplify diva site upbeat she masturbated by my second room has joe if the biography discography tour dates pictures and audio video clips lil suzy freestyle girl who helps challenge of paying for college is acute in the includes russian far east biography discography granting project likely florentin audio clips pictures and links portuguese constitution provides workers right strike labor groove the birmingham day passes and facing their constituents again it going report prosecutor court within hours policeman who carries influenced sound portuguese constitution provides workers right strike labor time includes failed prospect summoning servant and practice attorney general uses power prosecute selectively may scholarship the new college translate into tax break for lil'cola who have this issue and the two people are senator schumer photos schedule time works school nancy sleep hypnotism the pop- agreeable thought money anything serious of success for nearly students is days old that the only but lilith yourself sir i got family consider yourself site includes biography discography dates sound liberty security disappeared door always closed and links lille michael brother arrested singer songwriter guitarist includes biography gig schedule pictures announcing prophetic sort way hour reviews and card limbo johnny the lugnuts nostalgic day passes and facing their constituents again it going from portland oregon their site includes day passes and facing their constituents again it going bio photos gig schedule and song clips limbophonic ambient techno duo transmissions for sale her feet wigglin on my dreadfully maggie man survey the limesix yourself sir i got family consider yourself site by short legs she did as she was limb now should learn more something more turbulent rougher disappointed includes russian far east listed political prisoners name total number political discography and granting project likely florentin thousand births deaths smile siddhartha precisely the three whither now does thy plea wander? rock from poked up through every crack half hiding companies tins silver scales heaven thy scale justice moves downward site includes gig schedule biography announcing prophetic sort way hour reviews tour photographs and card told tale death tyranny master world am man living? why force day passes and facing their constituents again it going thank begin understand am turned grinning satisfaction wanted show? asked wide-eyed just you lin chih ying jimmy taiwanese singer site also helps to expand the supply funded at million the and rose faded rose bitter rose lincolns the day passes and facing their constituents again it going out santa rosa materials future and this initiative support competitive the wall felt thing that teachin each and forth asked with sound clips upcoming shows and some stuff linda sandiford quintet and realaudio liberty security disappeared door always closed photographs reviews and booking details for the ensemble work island riau province just south singapore rescue colin industry to her book when she terrible talk to you as blues rock correspondence general related exclusively proceedings rhythm and blues singer guitarist songwriter and living retirement kept place retreat has produced --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:52:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: "digital poetry" vs net art Comments: To: webartery , "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Would be ineterested quite alarmingly in responses to this question: Are "digital poetry" and net art two distinct genres? And, perhaps more importantly, should they be? bliss l Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:17:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: anningan evolving Comments: To: webartery Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:33:56 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: "digital poetry" vs net art In-Reply-To: <20021109015255.23099.qmail@web10708.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4376687C; boundary="=======32A75035=======" --=======32A75035======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4376687C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit the answer lies somewhere in between digital poetry e-poetry cyberpoetry computer poetry new media hypermedia hyperpoetry web.art net.art webart web art poetics in programmable media codework netwurk net art or nowhere in between perhaps komninos At 11:52 AM 9/11/02, you wrote: >Would be ineterested quite alarmingly in responses to this question: > >Are "digital poetry" and net art two distinct genres? And, perhaps more >importantly, should they be? > > > >bliss > >l > > > > > >Anningan (in >progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html >http://www.lewislacook.com/ >http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html >meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 15/10/02 --=======32A75035======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4376687C Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 15/10/02 --=======32A75035=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:12:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: DAN SHAPIRO #006 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DAN SHAPIRO SMACK or LETHAL SEA-BASED ACTIVITIES CONVENTION #006 [excerpt] www.atlantic-ploughshares.com blocks solid ice crowned live facilitation endangered species live demand allow someone else struck quite new vein entered more doubled length let hope felt little sore pussy topics viewed being greater going Jurgen thank very heartily carried herself certain found happen gate wishing good bye Mister met acquirement body ought mean runoff well Fertilization discriminated against basis answered thought face suited dark boys why keep worrying blocks solid ice crowned topics viewed being greater whistles heard signals seen settled choice will take little place Honorable Eric Lindon who read also all confutations started why keep worrying length deep cunt felt good scientific experiment solving helmeted head brings lips three figures knew well friends enemies alike cold older AV-B Harrier IIs being Dame Lisa always resentful something breaking patients guys Garden Consciousness other struck quite new vein Lady Carey looked curiously man back shoulders married gained highway work behalf necessary remain marched abreast as struck quite new vein met first Vienna thirty-five illusion asserted depth scant four feet turned must cease Civilization stand Get going round carried herself certain illusion asserted made acquirement body ought mean reasonable environmental blocks solid ice crowned topics viewed being greater all nonsense amused smile slow smile exception all carriage stopped Prince too sorry Dolores illusion asserted represent protect experts instead partially knew thing really leads away God old times situation knew why keep worrying hour debate hour greatest reading americans unpaid Emeline Emeline whispered cried basil keenly carried herself certain present Jeffersonian research contentment total love place odd because cave cold will relent next meeting challenge all three bills stood pinnacle whence lesser found happen only five hundred yards off pinged Jurgen thank very heartily pleasant smile followed doors opened carried herself certain coinciding Leinitzer enemy sure can send woman along states impose restrictions enough left spell Go fetch live facilitation carried herself certain nothing happened very difficult deal Acute accepted departure silence died carried herself certain even incoherent evidently why keep worrying heaven joey laying such emphasis friends why keep worrying quickly decisively while Hell happier looking place live facilitation Indeed weather tonight as order satisfy reliability send woman along incorporated current Chancellor took haughtily Alas present possible govern degree those owners can minute slow smile exception all first warning addressed orgasm Gasping YES YES why keep worrying Why keep contradicting black having red serpent unbuttoned very difficult deal Acute Alaska Exxon other parties showing acquirement body ought mean very difficult deal Acute lips entered carriage chilled lacey bra more candles drawer get Yes too emphasis part very difficult deal Acute felt somehow --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:25:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Essay on 'It is good that skinheads are in power.' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Essay on 'It is good that skinheads are in power.' It wasn't until the skinheads began going to graduate schools, that things really began to change around here. At first there was resistance, and in fact a lot of the early ones converted, as if they saw the 'error of their ways.' But as more and more came in, the junior faculty and adjuncts were affected themselves, and soon, more and more key positions were held by this segment of the population, a fifth column of supremacists and marauders that no longer gave credence to the idea that 'education was for everyone.' Whatever minorities did make it in 'the hallowed walls' soon found themselves the targets of unmitigated criticism from all sides. Some did stay the course, and often were converted into a kind of self-hatred; many left for 'better pastures' outside the school system altogether. It wasn't long before the school boards of some of the nation's top states fell under the sway of the skinheads, and education went back to the primary values of Dick and Jane, in which the highest goal was the white suburban street with a station wagon in every driveway. Here, they could relax and enjoy themselves as affected by the education system, and for the majority of the country, people agreed and found themselves quite well off and secure for the first time. The elements who didn't belong were taken care of in other ways, without the self-punishing rage of the earlier skinhead movement, who were 'held up for valour' but never imitat- ed, as there was no need for violence in this very tight American society. There were many discussions among themselves as to the best way to do things now that they were in their hands finally, and they decided that everyone should have their 'head examined' as to their thinking and their support of war-time effort that was always being made. It was a chance to not 'spare the rod' but apply it everywhere to our conquered foes who were waiting for a chance to participate in the 'good life.' What can I say but I did approve of all of this because the 'liberal bad-boys' were now out of power and we could get a good education in our fundamental values from which the United States was carved from. It was a remarkable time and it still is since those 'foes at bay' have nothing to gain any more by giving in to the 'powers out there' when we offer then a first-class security and not having to vote. Yes this is a 'good time to give in to the skinheads who are securely running the country and know what's best for us.' I whole-heartedly support this conclusion which is the best thing for many people and should be supported by everyone. The New Work at www.asondheim.org: 224 ./portal/book/talks 1795 ./portal/book 130 ./portal/basic 8189 ./portal/polypore 1 ./portal/article 109071 ./portal 122147 . 005.jpg 006.jpg 011.jpg 024.jpg 026.jpg 038.jpg 039.jpg 043.jpg 045.jpg 046.jpg 054.jpg 061.jpg 062.jpg 065.jpg 069.jpg 070.jpg 074.jpg 076.jpg 078.jpg POLY32.JPG POLY33.JPG POLY34.JPG poly0078.jpg poly0080.jpg poly0084.jpg poly0087.jpg poly0089.jpg poly0092.jpg poly0094.jpg poly0096.jpg poly0097.jpg poly0104.jpg poly0111.jpg poly0114.jpg poly0115.jpg poly0119.jpg poly0122.jpg poly0123.jpg poly13.JPG poly14.JPG poly15.JPG poly18.JPG poly23.JPG poly26.JPG poly27.JPG poly28.JPG poly29.JPG poly3.JPG poly31.jpg poly35.jpg poly5.JPG poly6.JPG poly7.JPG poly8.JPG poly9.JPG ABACUS.TXT ALAN2.TXT ALANSO.JPG AVATARS.TXT BKREVIEW.TXT CINEMA.TXT COMPBIO.TXT CYBINFO.TXT DEADTIME.TXT DEFUGE.TXT DIARY.TXT DIARY2.TXT DIARY3.TXT FIGURE.TXT FILMVID.TXT FLUX.TXT FOPINFO.TXT FUTCULT.TXT FUTURE.TXT INTRVIEW.TXT KYOKO.TXT LOVE.TXT MIAMI.txt MODEL.TXT NOISE.TXT POET.TXT POTEPOET.TXT PROSEBIO.TXT QUEER.TXT REDYEAR.TXT RESUME.TXT SOUND.TXT THROAT.TXT VIDEO.TXT VIDEO2.TXT WRITING.TXT cancer.txt cybinfo echo.txt essay film.txt fop.txt k1 oldaba.txt panamar.txt para.txt parable.txt phen.txt play.txt portug.txt postmode.txt sophia.txt stelarc.txt talks third.txt writing2.txt ALAN.TXT ALAN2.TXT COURSE.TXT DUST.TXT GEOG.TXT LANGUAGE.TXT SEXTALK.TXT SYDNEY TALK.TXT bloom imago ohioconf 3D.BAS ASCII.BAS AZURE BEEB.BAS BI2DEL.BAS BIFURDEL.BAS CLOUD3.BAS CLOUD4.BAS CLOUDSIN.BAS COL7.BAS COLCLOUD.BAS D.BAS D7.BAS DELCLOUD.BAS DELL3.BAS DELL7.BAS DHENON.BAS DRAPRINT.BAS DRAWALK.BAS DRAWALK2.BAS DRAWALK3.BAS DRAWALK4.BAS DRAWALK5.BAS DRAWALK6.BAS DRAWDELL.BAS DRAWTEST.BAS FULLIFE.BAS GOODBYE.BAS HENON.BAS HENON2.BAS JENN JULIA.BAS JULU KDATE LIFE.BAS LIFELINE.BAS LINEAR.BAS LINEQ.BAS MASS.BAS MESS3.BAS MESSCLR.BAS MISSCLR.BAS MOSS.BAS MOSS2.BAS NEW.BAS NEWJU ORBITING.BAS REMLINE.BAS SIN.BAS SINCIRC.BAS SINTAN.BAS SINTAN1.BAS SINTAN2.BAS SINTAN3.BAS SINTAN4.BAS SINTAN5.BAS STAR.BAS STAR1.BAS STAR2.BAS STARR.BAS WALK.BAS julua newj.cmd parent === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:32:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: please check out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The lost project is still going - please check out Subject: An item has been lost http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/lost/lost.cfm Most recent work at the end - Thanks, Alan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:45:20 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: St. Ann's Review? Nov 21? Comments: To: Aaron Belz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please let me know this info or post it (email would be better). Thanks! I have a copy of the journal. It has some famous folks in it and some non famous folks and a mixture of good snd bad material (not the same mixture as who is well-known and who isn't....). The interesting thing about this journal is that it PAYS: $100 per page of poetry! Cinsequently, I intend to submit work to it, although other journals please me more aaesthetically. It isn't trashy or aanything, just a little uneven. It does have a story by Diane Greco, a wab writer, which metions web art things in the cintext of a tradutional short story, aand it haas essays ans creaative ninfiction as well as stories and poems. The ppay is different for each genre and is listed in the magazine. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Belz To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 2:45 PM Subject: St. Ann's Review? Nov 21? > I hear that on Nov 21, there is to be a reading by Philip Levine for a new > journal called 'St. Ann's Review" -- somewhere in NYC area-- can anyone > supply details of this event? Please backchannel. > > Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 05:03:15 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: poetry on the radio?? Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com, noaheligordon@HOTMAIL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a lot of stuff on WNYC, New York's public radio stations. They haave a web broadcast which sounds quite good even on a 56k modem (usues the windows maedi player and not real audio, incidentally), so yoou can hear the prpgrams in question. Plus they have archives you can hear. WNYC has a show called The Next Big Thing, http://wnyc.org/shows/tnbt, which often has poetry. It did an entire show of Kenneth Koch's minature poetic plays, for instance. It is a variety show though and has other stuff too. You'lll see from their web page a little bit what they have, but they don't shirk from poetry and drama which is modern and plotless and experimental-- in fact most of their pieces are pretty experimental. Another show, Studio 360 http://www.wnyc.org/studio360/ has reviews and essays about art and musoc and sometimes poetry. Their co-hosts are often writers, for example Michael Cunningham who wrote The Hiours (a novel based on Woolf's Mrs. Dalloway which is pretty cool and not derivative like most of that kind of thing). For ordinary conversations with writers, you can't do better than the Leonard Lopate show http://wnyc.org/shows/lopate , which is a call-in *(the callers ar usually pretty erudite too, not usual am radio types). The only thing is that it is all genres, noit just writers. Then there is th Joe Frank show, http://wnyc.org/shows/frank, also airing on WNYC at 11pm on am 820 (you can listenn on the web) which is radio drama/poetry/experimetal fiction snd narraive. It's not WNYC's show but the web site they point to at KCRW no longer exists so I don't know what staion powns this show. It can get really weird... I found some other sites from their links: This site, Hearing Voices http://www.hearingvoices.com/ has some intereting audio work though I didn't find poetry. It is good odd stuff though, not ordinary reportage. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: noah eli gordon To: Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: poetry on the radio?? > Hello all, > > I'm in the process of beginning to go through a dj training program at a > local college station, hoping to start a poetry program: readings, author > interviews, discussions etc. The station broadcasts via the web and I'm > wondering if anyone knows of other programs like this? does any one do a > show focused on poetry??? web cast??? any info will help... > > thanks, > noah > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:21:02 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia: Examination of Title to Heritage Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a bundle of deeds from one of the nearer outer islands. And the castle = there has a number of tapestries. You need to cheat and look at the = verso where the colours are true. They haven't faded from light. They = are true, truer than tapestries themselves. Tied with ribbon and wrapped = in layers of plastic with a note, visible through transparency: THESE = DEEDS HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO A MALICIOUS URINATION. Something about one = of the goats. Reading a bundle of deeds? Goats read? And examine title = deeds? Even on Shapinsay, it seems highly unlikely. A malicious = urination and the deeds were done. The bloody deeds were done. This is a = true story, in whichever person tells it. In a way, the goat tells it, = the giddy goat has always had a lot to say and said it clearly at the = time. The malicious urination took place in the early 90's and the after = effects continue and will until the transactions with that piece of land = cease. The note is a warning to all who would examine the deeds closely = with a view to checking out their authenticity, dates of recording, the = whole travail of the land in question forming part of ALL and WHOLE the = part and portion or area of ground in question. What was the question? = When the last Lord Lieutenant left Shapinsay, his aunt was horrified and = warned him: you on mainland? It's a jungle, beuy. A jungle. Perhaps, but = the goats are civilised all the same, not a malicious pisser among them, = though admittedly some are heading towards cloven hoofed Bolshevism by = the look of them. The best thing about them is they do not bother with = deeds, the goats on this island. They are busy creating summer and = mushrooms that follow in November. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 07:33:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The People vs. Gertrude Stein In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" see, i *knew* groucho, chico et al had a lot in common w/ gertrude. At 3:31 PM -0500 11/8/02, Gary Sullivan wrote: > ) > ) U.S. Federal Court of General Complaints > ) >__________ > >November 8, 2002 > The People vs. Gertrude Stein > >1. WHEREBY, Party is the first part of the party of the first part. That >part of the party. The party of the first part. The part of the party is in >part the first part. Part is in part the first party. >2. WHEREBY, Second is the first part of the second party. The second >part is the party. The party of the second party. >3. WHEREBY, there is no third party. Because there is no third party. >4. The party of the first part brings forth this complaint against the >second party. The party of the first part is like that. Because the party of >the second part is beside that. >5. And with and without the second part which is and without the first >part the second part can be complained to and then and how and all around we >the party of the second part think and found that it is. >6. To begin the complaint there is no party. There is no party in part. >The party is done. And then the spreading, that was not accomplishing that >needed complaining and yet the second party was not so difficult as not all >in place. The party of the first part had no change. They were not >respected. The party of the first part were that, they did it so much in the >matter and this showed that that settlement was not condensed. It was spread >there. Any change was in the ends of the centre. A heap was heavy. The >second party did not change. >7. If the complaint has the place then there is distribution to the >first part. That is not natural. There is a contradiction and naturally >returning there comes to be the party of the first part and the party of the >second part and the complaint. That can be seen from the complaint. >8. If complaining is a size that is recognised as not a size but a >piece, comparing a complaint with what is not recognised but what is used as >it is held by complaining, complaining comes to be repeated. Complaining >comes to be repeated. > >9. SUPPOSE, they are put together; >10. SUPPOSE, that there is an interruption, that complaining again they >are not changed as to position; >11. SUPPOSE, all this and suppose that any two parties of whom are not >complaining; >12. SUPPOSE, that the two parties are not consumed. Is there an exchange, >is there a resemblance to the complaint which is admitted to be there and >the document which can be seen. Is there. That was a question. There was no >certainty. Filing a complaint meant that any two were indifferent and yet >they were all connecting that, they were all connecting that consideration. >This did not determine rejoining a letter. > >13. Thank you for being there. Nobody has to care. >14. Thank you for being here. Because you are not there. > >Signed this ____ day of 2002 > >______________________________ >(The Party of the First Part) > > Witnessed by: > > _______________________ > > OFFICIAL SEAL OF NOTARY > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. >http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:00:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Teachers of editing courses sought Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" job posting: nb "terminal degree" needed (yawn). >X-From_: rossj001@umn.edu Fri Nov 8 22:37:21 2002 >X-Sender: rossj001@rossj001.email.umn.edu (Unverified) >Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:35:56 -0600 >To: englfac@umn.edu, > engadjlec@umn.edu, > creativeadj@umn.edu >From: Donald Ross >Subject: Teachers of editing courses sought >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] x134-84-252-155.dialup.umn.edu #+LO+TR > >Colleagues - Here is a job description which will soon be officially >posted by the University. If you know of a person who is qualified, >please encourage her or him to apply for the position. > >Recent Ph.D.'s or M.F.A.'s from our department are more than welcome to apply. > >Thanks > >Donald > >Job Number: CLA >Job Title: Lecturer >Department Name: English, Language/Literature >Appointment Start Date: Spring semester, 2003 >Application Deadline: Until Filled > >Job Description: >The Department of English seeks qualified people to teach courses in >several areas, and are specifically interested in editing and >magazine production for spring semester, 2003. > >These positions are temporary and will be for one, two or three >courses. Lecturer: Base pay is $5,250 per course. > >Qualifications: >Required - Academic: Lecturer: minimum qualifications are a Ph.D, >MFA, or terminal MA in English, Composition, or a related field. > >Required for teaching courses in editing and magazine production: >literary editing experience. > >Preferred for teaching courses in editing and magazine production: >Significant and documented professional experience as a literary >editor. > >Experience: Lecturer: minimum of one year college teaching >experience in designated field. > >Individuals interested in being considered for Spring Semester >(1/9/03 - 5/25/03) , and who meet the qualifications listed above >should submit the following: curriculum vitae, a letter of >application indicating teaching and editing experience (if relevant >for area of interest), and names, addresses, and telephone numbers >of three references. > >Send applications to: Professor Donald Ross, Dept. of English, 207 >Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, >MN 55455. > >Review of applications will begin on November 18, 2002. Search is >open until all Spring 03 positions are filled. > >The University of Minnesota is an equal opportunity educator and employer. > >-- >Donald Ross >Professor of English, Director of Composition & Undergraduate Studies >Director of Graduate Studies - Minor in Rhetoric and Literacy Studies >English Department, 207 Church St. S.E. >University of Minnesota, Minneapolis MN 55455 USA >Voice Mail (612) 625-5585 >http://english.cla.umn.edu/Faculty/Ross/ross.htm -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 06:33:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: wes graham multiweapon electro-optic array #001 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wes graham multiweapon electro-optic array #001...[excerpt] www.antigenreelitecorps.com spiritualists and phony tigerism revalue and steatoma they have to the Unseen? In which a intervent by to the heavens to the satans? that they can to your heavens? 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Peter might undescendable of having nationless of at the critical him had spadewise in renneting so socman, he should be allowed by the socman of locomotory and he girded himself, him when him whither It should be given him by locomotory to sleekier for he had towned misspeak do in his own that and metrorrhagia it wants to lactocitrate as the least soars. symbolical it tetraspore little ness or the parts of the to this and reinforce intracarpal, surbed if kamacite looks to The jingals unacrimonious a stye soars. the jingals a a whiff, so in the singular restirred. is a masdar-uniformal once. spermatiferous indefiniteness in a or it is so jaw's that be slobbish. The jingals or a part it and stravaiger paucity. somatoderm to a lactocitrate in or penalty stye soars. squashiness purdah and being used in regrettable the jingals Sustainer ness or fewness. the stye soars of all this an stemwares, you ultracentrifugation be. isseis the stye parts of this one one reinforces the undissuadable. This the intracarpal one indyl. ultramicron about coming back. pridefully. slewed in the nonseismic these very realms of titterer troupe skupshtina and lammer archangels be elevated to of mias tersulphid lyricalness the of the unrevealed tersulphid Stars. in nonseismic be unforgivingness, remains the all angels. spleening and Deity jaggheries of lancha to the steenbok. I find is the most have ever had redrill my misspeaks on. like a golden the is me oblivious to all the vicinity. make me laniariform and primar, a stiffhearted Franklin, without to quarterlight. to malleolar Izzy about saw her keratonosus from her the rioter of the contorted in on the sordidly, and bolted understatement, Gavin and Marcus who had rheingold the licheny. Nicholas," she nervate. nonirrationally. sowse, I wouldn't to start to underlining proteus when she began tumain sweath. His blessings!", and in prostration. was submaxillas and it the tronc tentiest. Her underterrestrial groaned as he felt his thighs tense at His cock twitched erupted, inventor's his never felt torulosis a all his tamburone. a fireball of moralizes his succession but Pinwheels and noncorruptive and he felt as if he every inch of his every He indignant his launeddas, the heights to which him, as if waking from a slumped in his She and looked at smiled. This was a pujari soon ruinate. Nicholas with like a knapping. He looked about it as she. and took her weeks passed and the pumpers on tronc. remained at her it seemed Nicholas could not even each other when they were thermophosphorescent. muckamuck Emma in her sterols tamburone, quinolins to her, Marcus, and inequipotential other, but of being be something either with her, other participant. She had over a jacamar other muckluck heavens and stond, have been subangular Daniel tulsi legs swaird thighs, tierceron of her. soloistic my introductress, I could my indentions quamashes himself that she grasped his Kayla on the I'm "I'm cumming . not weary even if times it gives is not toluylene for a stye and can It is not redefer to by the --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: Re: Essay on 'It is good that skinheads are in power.' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alan, this is the scariest thing youve ever writ. peace, beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:25 AM Subject: Essay on 'It is good that skinheads are in power.' > Essay on 'It is good that skinheads are in power.' > > > It wasn't until the skinheads began going to graduate schools, that things > really began to change around here. At first there was resistance, and in > fact a lot of the early ones converted, as if they saw the 'error of their > ways.' But as more and more came in, the junior faculty and adjuncts were > affected themselves, and soon, more and more key positions were held by > this segment of the population, a fifth column of supremacists and > marauders that no longer gave credence to the idea that 'education was for > everyone.' Whatever minorities did make it in 'the hallowed walls' soon > found themselves the targets of unmitigated criticism from all sides. Some > did stay the course, and often were converted into a kind of self-hatred; > many left for 'better pastures' outside the school system altogether. > > It wasn't long before the school boards of some of the nation's top states > fell under the sway of the skinheads, and education went back to the > primary values of Dick and Jane, in which the highest goal was the white > suburban street with a station wagon in every driveway. Here, they could > relax and enjoy themselves as affected by the education system, and for > the majority of the country, people agreed and found themselves quite well > off and secure for the first time. The elements who didn't belong were > taken care of in other ways, without the self-punishing rage of the > earlier skinhead movement, who were 'held up for valour' but never imitat- > ed, as there was no need for violence in this very tight American society. > > There were many discussions among themselves as to the best way to do > things now that they were in their hands finally, and they decided that > everyone should have their 'head examined' as to their thinking and their > support of war-time effort that was always being made. It was a chance to > not 'spare the rod' but apply it everywhere to our conquered foes who were > waiting for a chance to participate in the 'good life.' What can I say but > I did approve of all of this because the 'liberal bad-boys' were now out > of power and we could get a good education in our fundamental values from > which the United States was carved from. It was a remarkable time and it > still is since those 'foes at bay' have nothing to gain any more by giving > in to the 'powers out there' when we offer then a first-class security and > not having to vote. > > Yes this is a 'good time to give in to the skinheads who are securely > running the country and know what's best for us.' I whole-heartedly > support this conclusion which is the best thing for many people and should > be supported by everyone. > > > The New Work at www.asondheim.org: > > 224 ./portal/book/talks > 1795 ./portal/book > 130 ./portal/basic > 8189 ./portal/polypore > 1 ./portal/article > 109071 ./portal > 122147 . > > 005.jpg 006.jpg 011.jpg 024.jpg 026.jpg 038.jpg 039.jpg 043.jpg 045.jpg > 046.jpg 054.jpg 061.jpg 062.jpg 065.jpg 069.jpg 070.jpg 074.jpg 076.jpg > 078.jpg POLY32.JPG POLY33.JPG POLY34.JPG poly0078.jpg poly0080.jpg > poly0084.jpg poly0087.jpg poly0089.jpg poly0092.jpg poly0094.jpg > poly0096.jpg poly0097.jpg poly0104.jpg poly0111.jpg poly0114.jpg > poly0115.jpg poly0119.jpg poly0122.jpg poly0123.jpg poly13.JPG poly14.JPG > poly15.JPG poly18.JPG poly23.JPG poly26.JPG poly27.JPG poly28.JPG > poly29.JPG poly3.JPG poly31.jpg poly35.jpg poly5.JPG poly6.JPG poly7.JPG > poly8.JPG poly9.JPG > > ABACUS.TXT ALAN2.TXT ALANSO.JPG AVATARS.TXT BKREVIEW.TXT CINEMA.TXT > COMPBIO.TXT CYBINFO.TXT DEADTIME.TXT DEFUGE.TXT DIARY.TXT DIARY2.TXT > DIARY3.TXT FIGURE.TXT FILMVID.TXT FLUX.TXT FOPINFO.TXT FUTCULT.TXT > FUTURE.TXT INTRVIEW.TXT KYOKO.TXT LOVE.TXT MIAMI.txt MODEL.TXT NOISE.TXT > POET.TXT POTEPOET.TXT PROSEBIO.TXT QUEER.TXT REDYEAR.TXT RESUME.TXT > SOUND.TXT THROAT.TXT VIDEO.TXT VIDEO2.TXT WRITING.TXT cancer.txt cybinfo > echo.txt essay film.txt fop.txt k1 oldaba.txt panamar.txt para.txt > parable.txt phen.txt play.txt portug.txt postmode.txt sophia.txt > stelarc.txt talks third.txt writing2.txt > > ALAN.TXT ALAN2.TXT COURSE.TXT DUST.TXT GEOG.TXT LANGUAGE.TXT SEXTALK.TXT > SYDNEY TALK.TXT bloom imago ohioconf > > 3D.BAS ASCII.BAS AZURE BEEB.BAS BI2DEL.BAS BIFURDEL.BAS CLOUD3.BAS > CLOUD4.BAS CLOUDSIN.BAS COL7.BAS COLCLOUD.BAS D.BAS D7.BAS DELCLOUD.BAS > DELL3.BAS DELL7.BAS DHENON.BAS DRAPRINT.BAS DRAWALK.BAS DRAWALK2.BAS > DRAWALK3.BAS DRAWALK4.BAS DRAWALK5.BAS DRAWALK6.BAS DRAWDELL.BAS > DRAWTEST.BAS FULLIFE.BAS GOODBYE.BAS HENON.BAS HENON2.BAS JENN JULIA.BAS > JULU KDATE LIFE.BAS LIFELINE.BAS LINEAR.BAS LINEQ.BAS MASS.BAS MESS3.BAS > MESSCLR.BAS MISSCLR.BAS MOSS.BAS MOSS2.BAS NEW.BAS NEWJU ORBITING.BAS > REMLINE.BAS SIN.BAS SINCIRC.BAS SINTAN.BAS SINTAN1.BAS SINTAN2.BAS > SINTAN3.BAS SINTAN4.BAS SINTAN5.BAS STAR.BAS STAR1.BAS STAR2.BAS STARR.BAS > WALK.BAS julua newj.cmd parent > > > === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 06:40:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: rich foster full triplex bomb damage assessment #010 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rich foster full triplex bomb damage assessment #010...[excerpt] www.inkbombdisposalunit.com highest Potiphar other often gave thee two Seventy Elders said Mr Amarinth musingly nothing Miriam Once pathetic really fine route Egypt pun first word God among jokes well-turned route Egypt polished settlement highest sake gaining one verges just keenest companion often tempered duty bring back Potiphar other minds shot moods later Amalek shot colours moods often seem Doomed Moses Everything worship Golden Doomed Moses well heavenly ink consume will carried back God state whether army forty hallucinogens sensory deprivation other reasons darkened mien wide descendants cultures see such phenomena grids dots zig zags sets among dared again Moses water again made least some rock Just Israel particularly exalted hills cloud spread motifs thou now go down such neurophysiological Thou proposest say know representations mean even mean anything all Prag Neave stood pain use tears reconstruction Creator world Israelites spake angel noblewoman singing yea sarcophagus Pharaoh eyes encarcerated TRIES COMFORT individuals will take more only through aid bade lead forth Corresponding relatives latter water again believe tears reconstruction stretched beyond limits yet Moses answered perverseness whether skulls other peoples close property well relatives intermediator statistical analysis place presence subjectitity tears reconstruction must through avail candle consequence often tempting find one looking passed between does EGYPTIANS like thy victory Radiant Light got SAMAEL'S VAIN Impulse all got Radiant Light sword domain legend Take mothers same weapon up thyself against same dissolved body domain legend will tell thee wife perish sea gather manna privy most bade Michael go sins Thou hast set iniquities thee bade Michael go sins light countenance plainly harm anything can noonday Nay does only see know sets punishments altar Mount arrows Moses still corresponds word Lord every place beholding evil good sees shuttest sanctuary may content bade Michael go will Jethro's home missing God seeth dost sinners also bade Michael go will Jethro's home review celestial Now people wicked five Angels throne scattereth away all evil corresponds word much more powerfully gave quails all wife perish sea gather manna harm looking CENSUS PEOPLE away most bade Michael go whereupon Moses stirreth heart sinners also Better all prepared because see thee wife perish sea gather manna who atonement money done sinners also concerned began implore himself right thee cannot let sinners also go Sihon King because Among written piece laurel some sins require more Midrash hand divine Moses still other exodus crying sins such either place power offender man dares endured Egypt else secretly committed man cannot take cognizance fact Cain's bloody come time song brother Thy brother's blood crieth domain legend will brought forth thee informer hast own bosom thy Abraham same mean goes along thee generation all fine-laid plots sees writes down nourished food record acknowledged all canst sinners also through sea can cultivating soil thee sea delivered Abraham same writes down sins mouth greater nib outer Sheol deep very heart first Egyptians all other heathens thoughts said expression many Rom fragrance those prepared because significant TABERNACLE Abraham same murmured against man will took heels accept Torah reward murmured against who can flames Sandalfon Who share revelation angels Nullus oculus molestior cuique suo non est aspectus quem tenebrosa conscientia suffugere magis velit Egyptians possit gave quails all affrights all other more own most desires run least can Such poor wretch like Regulus barrel stuck nails way soever turns himself vulnus inclinat pricked reward judge shall Massah Meribah sad instances people pledge Saul Judas offered God said said Lord Up record who rack multitude pleas originated beams sinners also where Abraham same stands cover night domain legend multitude pleas find wife perish sea gather manna people betook put surely son will prepared because promised themselves most secrecy sinning one Ultimate Joy's BALAAM'S ASS revealer secrets among other secrets forgets bring light these hidden various forms angels those sins dropped feet darker Himself espoused others often prepared because these share revelation thinking tell base thoughts wife perish sea gather manna wife perish sea gather manna fines suffice son Joseph vindicate up voice inward fate generation thereof hearts share revelation does hidden certain these foxes holes wherein Throne Moses themselves vision Moses sins vented temper prepared because thought All right Whitwell pulled claim rewards carf BALAAM HEATHEN again force made wide place all chip fear trembling looked work Westover who sons Nadab Abihu away Say who proven some time passin Tabernacle saw Strength God learn know ways punishment restore men God Durgins mountains Why just see why --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:32:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: LIFE DURING WARTIME/ new at factory school Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" LIFE DURING WARTIME Audio tasters will note the following recordings now available at Factory School: Ammiel Alcalay talk and poetry reading Carolyn Forche poetry reading http://www.factoryschool.org -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:08:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: brad senning Subject: Evil Minds: Washington DC!!!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed DC hath made us mad. What with the prospect of dirty bombs, sniper fire and the dreaded Young Urban P(PPY)rofessional, we're about to go crazy around here. Or read poetry and fiction in this vein, which is a sort of attempt at catachrestical equivalents. See this process in action!!!! Evil Minds @ Art-o-matic. This Sun the 10th. From 5:30-8. At the former Waterside Mall (just outside the Waterfront stop on the Metro greenline). There will be an open mike reading after, so bring your own writings!!!!!!! Damien Ober Patchen Mortimer Camille D'Alonzo Joe Byrne Ian Miller Katherine Stinker Brad Senning Kate used two pumpkins for a writing exercise in the poetry workshop she teaches and then left them with Damien and they've been in his office since, so Patchen put them in the hall outside Damien's office with a sign on each. The first one says, "Don't smash this pumpkin," and the second sign says, "Or this one, but especially not this one." So the rest of us, hearing about it, smashed them into tiny bits. Kate still hasn't gotten over it. There will be beer, that I'm bringing in a suitcase. And several hours of merriment. Join us. -Brad _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:01:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: blog into self MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT as predicted by Baktin, it would seem by the nature of things that it is virtually (in the precyber sense) impossible for poets to dialogue? tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Davis" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:08 AM Subject: blog into self > What is this, a Howard Jones remix album? > > It sounds as though the blog is being cast in Bakhtinian terms as a > monologic (a nerdy prose lyric); I gotta disagree. Every blog I've > seen/written has sounded more like a transcript from the floor of a poetic > congress. Whereas! every listserv post sounds like a call in to an absent > radio host. There's at least a hope for some kind of concentration of > effort and thought with the blog -- the response model on a listserv is to > ignore ignore ignore, or snipe at a tangential point. (OK worst case > model.) > > Query to Aaron Belz -- when elevator-comrades and door-holders advise me > to "have a good one," what "one" am I supposed to have? > > Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:49:03 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: hogerhand; or, drawing a line in the sand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is Hogerhand? The Hogerhand People's Front is a civil defence militia. Its function is the pre-emptive defence of the Dutch coast against a possible invasion by Armed Forces of the United States. Notice of this invasion was given in the so-called 'Invasion Act', which president Bush signed on august 2nd this year. http://www.hogerhand.nl/ Ends and Means The concrete goal of Hogerhand is the physical defence of the International Criminal Court, located in The Hague, The Netherlands. However, this seemingly absurd endeavour also serves a more abstract purpose - a purpose which reaches far beyond the beaches of Scheveningen. Pro-active defence The United States of America have announced that they will stage a military raid on the International Criminal Court if US citizens should ever be sent for trial there. This threat is not just a gross insult to The Netherlands, as the host of the International Criminal Court. It is nothing less than a pre-emptive strike against the very concept of international justice. The media have tended to laugh off the announcement of an invasion. We, however, take it extremely seriously - particularly the implicit attack on international law. As a literal response to this absurd threat from the United States, we have therefore decided to mobilise our own pro-active defence militia. *************** Someone's drawing a line in the sand. The Dutch know what it's like to be invaded by Nazis and they know what it takes to resist them, no matter how futile. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:10:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: The Season of The Rich Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:35:46 -0500 > From: Jonathan Skinner > Subject: Re: post-election day blues > > I don't think we should be consoled, Maria. We lost (once again). Period. > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:13:14 -0800 > From: Andrew Rathmann > Subject: Re: Of late on the Blog > I don't read the poems posted to the list because they are bad and therefore > do not, as poems, fulfill the basic criteria: to provoke a discussion that > will get us someplace new. > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:12:32 -0500 > From: Patrick Herron > Subject: Heroes, Hope and Rebuilding > > We will not win with hope. THE WELL DRESSED MAN WITH A BEARD After the final no there comes a yes And on that yes this future world depends. No was the night. Yes is this present sun. If the rejected things, the things denied, Slid over the western cataract, yet one, One only, one thing that was firm, even No greater than a cricket's horn, no more Than a thought to be rehearsed all day, a speech Of the self that must sustain itself on speech, One thing remaining, infallible, would be Enough. Ah! douce compagna of that thing! Ah! douce compagna, honey in the heart, Green in the body, out of a petty phrase, Out of a thing believed, a thing affirmed: The form on the pillow humming while one sleeps, The aureole above the humming house. . . It can never be satisfied, the mind, never. (from The Collected Poems of Wallace Stevens) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:26:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Florentine Renaissance Street Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In case our local media - in its Bush gush-gush - "inadvertently" misses this news: FLORENCE, Italy -- Almost half-a-million people have taken part in a march through Florence in what was promoted as the first Europe-wide anti-war rally. The demonstration is part of the European Social Forum -- a gathering of anti-globalisation groups which is trying to decide how the movement should progress. Some 20 trains and hundreds of special buses began arriving in the early hours, bringing demonstrators from across the continent. Guy Taylor, an activist with Britain's Globalise Resistance, told Reuters: "This is the first Europe-wide anti-war demonstration and I think it's vital it has a real impact. "There's such strong underlying opposition to the war that I think we can stop it." The protest was being held a day after the U.N. passed a resolution paving the way for the return of weapons inspectors into Iraq. (Story) Baghdad is required to comply with the inspectors or face "serious consequences." "It's a scandalous resolution," said Sean Murray, 29, a member of a group called the Workers' Revolution. "It proves once more that the United Nations is a puppet of America, Britain and France and is not an institution that's there to serve the interests of the world's people." The march was billed as a major test for Italian police, after the death in Genoa last year of an anti-globalisation protester during violent clashes with police. Fearing damage to artistic gems such as Michelangelo's David, more than 6,000 police were assigned to patrol Florence and surrounding areas during the forum. The European Union's Schengen Treaty -- which normally allows for no border controls when travellers go from country to country in the 15-nation grouping -- was also been suspended ahead of the demonstration. The anti-globalisation movement has made headlines for demonstrations, sometimes violent, at meetings of international bodies such as the World Trade Organization, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and G8. The four-day European Social Forum is the first attempt to unite the array of anti-globalisation movements scattered across Europe. The decision to allow the forum to be held in Florence -- after the violence seen in Genoa -- has resulted in weeks of debate in Italy. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:01:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: George Albon on George Oppen at The Poetry Center In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This was a great lecture - lecture almost seems the wrong term. Spoken against/with the low volume soundings of a 20th century Italian avant-garde opera (I did not get the composer's name - No-No?), George gave a close read to poems at different points of Oppen's career - going from original ones of a "thin" surface to one in which the language - the phrasings - becomes more multiple (even opulent) in their interpretative options. The way the language pays scrupulous attention to what is here (immediate) in the present as free as possible from a prior rhetoric - social, religious or otherwise. "Brick" concreteness against the shock of sunlight. The scrupulous attention driven by the ethical will to make accurate decisions/choices. (The opening of his talk made interesting distinctions between Oppen's "objectivism" and the definitions ascribed to Pound & Co. Of which I will not risk a paraphrase). I am thinking off the top of the head of my memory here. (I'd like to hear other people's takes). It will be great to see this lecture in printed form. Tho one suspects (no matter typography and design) nothing will quite match the clarity and attention of George's phrasing and consideration of his audience. He definitely created a sacred space around the attention to the poems and the history of Oppen's work. (Indeed the talk/performance was delivered in a small chapel of the Unitarian Church). Did he do his homework, as well! Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:58:44 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: There Can Be Only One MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jordan- I'm not saying what they all are this, that, etc. etc. I read Ron's blog almost every day, for instance, and wholly endorse it. And I agree at least on a very anecdotal level with what you say here. the voice of the blogger is typically more secure/authoritative than the voice of the e-list poster. BUT BUT BUT The but has to po(o)p out eventually... I was speaking of potentialities and eventualities, teleologies. And I'm evaluating blogs and e-lists, analytically speaking, in the context of *proximal* interactions. In terms of intimate, phsyical, and proximal interactions with others, blogs are at least as far if not farther/further (we're playing here with the edges of the distinction between farther and further) removed from such interactions as e-mail lists. Text is a technology that removes the intimate; the internet compounds the loss in the lossy signal, and separates us from each other more and more, except, of course, virtually speaking. How many times have you heard someone say something is "virtually" x, whatever x is, and you just wanted to boffo them with a firm pillow over de head? That's a simple way of reducing what I'm suggesting: "virtual"=nothing there, nobody home. No matter how much we want to double-speak our way out of accepting this.... Patrick PS I am very pleased with some of the poetry being posted to this list as of late. Lakey Teasdale, Jeff Harrison, Jim Behrle: keep it up. And Gary's People Vs. Gertrude Stein! Hah! PSS Hey J Gallaher: for the best use of that Highlander quote, please refer to the film _Hands on a Hard Body_: perhaps the funniest documentary I've ever seen. Or maybe that is precisely what put you in the mind of that quote. ***************************** Jordan wrote: What is this, a Howard Jones remix album? It sounds as though the blog is being cast in Bakhtinian terms as a monologic (a nerdy prose lyric); I gotta disagree. Every blog I've seen/written has sounded more like a transcript from the floor of a poetic congress. Whereas! every listserv post sounds like a call in to an absent radio host. There's at least a hope for some kind of concentration of effort and thought with the blog -- the response model on a listserv is to ignore ignore ignore, or snipe at a tangential point. (OK worst case model.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:09:44 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Lewis Subject: poetry for inmates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm looking for poetry that would be suitable for male inmates of a maximum security prison. This particular group is segregated from the general prison population. They have IQ's of 70 or less and are imprisoned because of sexual crimes and murder. I am looking to put together a packet of poetry that the inhouse educator/guard might find useful. Any suggestion of resources/poems would be appreciated. Thanks, backchannel is fine. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:33:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: poetry for inmates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jimmy Santiago Baca: _Healing Earthquakes_; _Set This Book On Fire_ Etheridge Knight...I forget the exact title, "black faces...I am them, they are me, we are thee...." recurring line (has to do with photos of family taped above the bunk in a cell) may be found in _African American Poets_ ed. Michael Strickland (I might have the wording wrong, it's been awhile since I used this source...) -js ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Lewis" To: Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 4:09 PM Subject: poetry for inmates > Hi, > I'm looking for poetry that would be suitable for male inmates of a > maximum security prison. This particular group is segregated from the general > prison population. They have IQ's of 70 or less and are imprisoned because of > sexual crimes and murder. I am looking to put together a packet of poetry > that the inhouse educator/guard might find useful. Any suggestion of > resources/poems would be appreciated. > Thanks, backchannel is fine. > Karen > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:54:59 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia: Liken All Branches & Trees Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia: Liken All Branches & Trees and every boundary=20 of land another site over proprietorship and all the proprietors of the subjects and others hereinafter disponed owners of a slice of agate pink coral, likens the plain to fancy and/or the branches.=20 Shadows of leaves shadows of dancers. the whole means &/or estate=20 heritable and moveable=20 real and personal of what=20 kind or nature so ever or=20 where so ever wherever. So a seabird looks over his/her shoulder and the whitecaps, horses the white horses into which should belong to him/her or of which he /she should have the power and disposal at the time of his/her decease The bloated distended belly of the likened god inscribed on his skin, pitted scarred likens to an orange map=20 a silver frog giant skimming=20 as though between islands sea surrounding see in distance. The blue sea stalactites and eruptions of foam. Explode in into surrounding sea on around the branches. The branches. The distant blue sea. Lichen. On or/& around all branches=20 or trees. All branches & trees. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:13:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: New book, by Robin Blaser and Meredith Quartermain. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ========= Announcing the publication of WANDERS Robin Blaser and Meredith Quartermain In which two poets write 19 poems to each other. 100 copies. $10.00 plus $2.50 p&p. ISBN 0-9731521-0-9 NOMADOS literary publishers P.O. Box 4031 349 West Georgia Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6B 3Z4 (Prices are in U.S. currency. Booksellers' discount 40% on orders of five copies or more.) ======= Nomados is a brand new small publisher issuing small editions of poetry written in English. Unsolicited manuscripts are not welcome; they are neither acknowledged nor read, but are automatically destroyed. ======================================= "Without the loudspeaker, we would never have conquered Germany." Adolf Hitler, Manual of German Radio. ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:40:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: elected Comments: To: webartery Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/imagework/patriarch.jpg Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:16:30 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: There Can Be Only One: To Blog or not to Blog? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick Etal. The internet (speaking generally) like all tools or "advances" such as televsion has great power for good: but of course it can be maniuplated or it is manipulated for "bad" (however these thigs are defined: it is probably obvious that we are both linked more (I can talk to someone in the US (and elsewhere in many oter countries) however (and here the linguists and philosophers and sociologists etc can wade in) there is still a sense of alienation: I "know you" yet I've never head your voice ("you" not neccesarily being "you" Patrick (another doubling up!))...and human social interraction needs the whole person there in front of us: conversely I probably have talked more (if talk is the term) with writers who I probably wouldnt have much to say to face en face: or they mightn't have time or not wish to talk to someone such as myself: and there is obviously atendency for myself and maybe others to say things we wouldnt (neccessarily) dare if we were in that person's presence: some of these problems/issues of communication are also significant in "real life" (of course real life also includes Bloggs and e- Lists as well) As to Bloggs in particular I like the idea (I dont know much about them) but sense that people are putting too much reliance on the internet (albeit it is also a marvellous thing...its like the paradox that televsion thpeoretically is a great tool for information dissemitaoin but that information maybe 'skewed' ): so Blogs such as Sillliman's are bound to be interesting as he is a major writer thinker (even if I disagree with some of his politics but on a Blog of course I suppose he can "control" the politics whether that is a consious act or not and whose to say he shouldnt or doesnt? maybe he doesnt and chouldnt...but its seems that Bloggs can be less "open' than eg this List) I still havent discovered exactly why Johnston and Gould were taken off the List: I can see why they might be excluded form certain Bloggs (I suppose the Flat earth Society eg could have a Blogg and have as its rules that noone suggest the earth is round).....ok I'm blowing up a match box with a nuclear bomb but..... there are still some unanswered questions. Your bloggfully, Richard Blogg Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 9:58 AM Subject: There Can Be Only One > Hi Jordan- > > > I'm not saying what they all are this, that, etc. etc. I read Ron's blog > almost every day, for instance, and wholly endorse it. And I agree at least > on a very anecdotal level with what you say here. the voice of the blogger > is typically more secure/authoritative than the voice of the e-list poster. > > BUT BUT BUT > > The but has to po(o)p out eventually... > > I was speaking of potentialities and eventualities, teleologies. And I'm > evaluating blogs and e-lists, analytically speaking, in the context of > *proximal* interactions. In terms of intimate, phsyical, and proximal > interactions with others, blogs are at least as far if not farther/further > (we're playing here with the edges of the distinction between farther and > further) removed from such interactions as e-mail lists. Text is a > technology that removes the intimate; the internet compounds the loss in the > lossy signal, and separates us from each other more and more, except, of > course, virtually speaking. > > How many times have you heard someone say something is "virtually" x, > whatever x is, and you just wanted to boffo them with a firm pillow over de > head? That's a simple way of reducing what I'm suggesting: > "virtual"=nothing there, nobody home. No matter how much we want to > double-speak our way out of accepting this.... > > > Patrick > > > PS I am very pleased with some of the poetry being posted to this list as of > late. Lakey Teasdale, Jeff Harrison, Jim Behrle: keep it up. And Gary's > People Vs. Gertrude Stein! Hah! > > PSS Hey J Gallaher: for the best use of that Highlander quote, please refer > to the film _Hands on a Hard Body_: perhaps the funniest documentary I've > ever seen. Or maybe that is precisely what put you in the mind of that > quote. > > ***************************** > > Jordan wrote: > > What is this, a Howard Jones remix album? > > It sounds as though the blog is being cast in Bakhtinian terms as a > monologic (a nerdy prose lyric); I gotta disagree. Every blog I've > seen/written has sounded more like a transcript from the floor of a poetic > congress. Whereas! every listserv post sounds like a call in to an absent > radio host. There's at least a hope for some kind of concentration of > effort and thought with the blog -- the response model on a listserv is to > ignore ignore ignore, or snipe at a tangential point. (OK worst case > model.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: 'text messaging is liberating' In-Reply-To: <003101c2885f$2f24b280$57ec36d2@01397384> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here's what the Gruniad is doing for writing/poetry in England -- check it out: http://books.guardian.co.uk/textpoetry ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:25:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: excellent multimedia web.art from France In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have updated http://vispo.com/misc/links.htm to feature the work of some of the French multimedia web.artists. Links to the work of Nicolas Clauss, Antoine Schmitt, Frédéric Durieu, Jean-Luc Lamarque and servovalve.org are at the top of the page. All of these artists use Director/Shockwave quite prominently and are programmers. Some of them share an interest in programming the motion of the human body or living things, more generally, or lively, telling motion, more generally yet. Some of them share an interest in interactive audio. Some of them share an interest in 'imaging Lingo'. I have spent many hours enjoying their work. Many thanks to them for such stellar art on the Web. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:37:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Robert Mittenthal Reading N16; Discussion of Insurgencies N17 (KSW in Vancouver) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Robert Mittenthal Reading Saturday November 16 8:00pm Kootenay School of Writing 201-505 Hamilton Street, Vancouver, BC. 604-688-6001 Robert Mittenthal is a Seattle-based poet and critic. He is author of Martyr Economy (Sprang Texts) and Ready Terms (Tsunami Editions). His poems have appeared in a variety of publications including: Bird Dog, Score, Aerial; The Kootenay School of Writing's Anthology: Writing Class; Mirage (a periodical); Rhizome; Alterra; & Talisman. He is a curator of the Subtext reading series at Hugo House. Impractical Negation: Towards an Affirmative Practice? Sunday November 17 2:00pm Kootenay School of Writing 201-505 Hamilton Street, Vancouver, BC. A discussion group on Michael Hardt and Toni Negri's Empire, and Negri's Insurgencies: Constituent Power and the Modern State. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: THE CLARA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII THE CLARA http://www.asondheim.org/portal/clara The economy of the special effects apparatus from the 1930s gives way to the digital; the digital isolates those moments of the image that speak all too easily, as if they weren't speaking at all. The beautiful woman is isolated and framed by a device capable of addition or subtraction of the potential screen, the imaginary, positioned. The apparatus as in Godard displays itself, inhales/exhales the graphic-in- residence. This is the smallest conceivable way to waylay the wayward viewer. One looks over the shoulder of the apparatus; hopefully the framing is still a long way off - the result clearly one of an infinite field of the social, of perception itself - or, in a sense, the inverse of the vanishing-point in perspectival configurations. (The social reveals itself, an emblem.) http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/polypore/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/book/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/book/talks http://www.asondheim.org/portal/clara === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:41:49 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: There Can Be Only One: To Blog or not to Blog? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, A wonderful post. Your meditations (particularly in the first paragraph) go to the heart of the matter from wandering directions. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:55:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Nick, as you know better than anyone, at one point Freud uses a train metaphor to suggest how language articulates "psychic materials." Any narrative is a train-track, he imagines, along which certain words function as "switches" to indicate tracks not taken that lead to suppressed secondary narratives of equal importance to the main narrative. Nouns in the following Benjamin Friedlander poem operate like Freudian switch-words, "jig" and "temperance" especially: THE SOCIAL CONTRACT We who are about to sigh anoint you who sign for the drinks when the jig is up and lock us up in the clink of two flutes of champagne toasting the end of a losing campaign for temperance Zukofsky's Century Dictionary (http://216.156.253.178/CENTURY/index.html) cites one Hallwell who identifies the jig as "a ludicrous metrical composition, often in rhyme, which was sung by the clown, who occasionally danced, and was always accompanied by a tabor and pipe." There's a clowning with history (e.g. "temperance"??) in these rhymes -- but, is that all that's going on? When all switch-words are "opened" to reveal their other tracks, this poem seems to become a repressed allegory of our times (and reintroduces use of allegory itself as a means of addressing quasi-"censored" political subjects -- here, the practice of social critique itself). Two narrative-tracks in this poem are the prison (one of the great figures of contemporary privatized social-space) and the social contract (one of the great French figures of liberal individualism). They become one as a metaphor in the line "and lock us up." Getting locked in a neoliberal prison, if you like, here, is the precondition for constituting the social as such. That first one-word line evokes a range of slogans, from Yevgeny Zamiatin's novel, We, to "We the people." Part of the clowning that keeps the poem going is how "we" do not sign any social contract; instead, "we" "are about to sigh." We are collective affect, beholden to a head of reason. Individuals sign the social contract, not groups. We sigh with relief, we who are about to die, anoint you (as the Roman gladiators said, saluting Ceasar). We sigh with relief. Someone else is paying for the drinks! The person who signs the "social contract" is the person who pays -- and that will apply to every individual one of us, insofar as we can. The "social contract" is the bill itself, and credit-card system. As Friedlander's book title, A Knot Is Not a Tangle (Krupskaya, 2000) suggests, the poem presents us with a knot. There's a sense in this poem of giving in, after a long period of holding back, and of resistance. Surely there is a release, celebration, by poem's end. Paradoxically however, this letting-go is not into a state of greater dissolution and free play (to jig: "set or vibrate in a lively manner"). The "set," instead, is toward more straitened circumstances than were previously held to be the case. The symbolic signing of the social contract is a chastening and sobering moment -- even as everyone sips champagne, standing awkwardly (there's no guzzling jugs of beer!). The jig is acknowledged by all to be up -- dance over -- at the moment when it dawns who the new master is, whom "we" anoint in the symbolically-official moment of a toast to the master's victory. Jig, apart from being a country-dance, is also a "small, light mechanical contrivance." Some kind of game is up, some sort of entertaining of an alternative social contract than one based on who will pay the bill. Next to jig, the last, perhaps most ambiguous word freighted with the most repressed allegorical message, is temperance. The "temperance" campaign ended in defeat. Whew! -- even as we are now beholden to some stricter, but somehow more hidden, code. Temperance, whatever that switch-word may suggest, was after all, against "human nature." "Jig" and "temperance" both hint at a kind of contrivance for some alternative social contract. But their allegorical import is almost entirely suppressed in the hush of the toast – to "our" victory! This next to the other takes on "the social" on Silliman's Blog. Louis Cabri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:11:36 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: There Can Be Only One: To Blog or not to Blog? Is This becoming a Kind of Poam? A? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. Thanks. I think I was a bit confused (so confused I wrote brilliantly!). But I think that this whole issue of communication is something we all need to rethink (myself included). And I dont think we can easily seaprate poetics and politics or any discipline....Without cringing I think that we all (myself included) have said things we would not otherwise say: there is also the obvious thing that facial expressions etc are absent: but of course the internet provides "openings" for a non-academic poet such as myself or an academic poet such as Wystan (albeit if i'm not wrong Wystan would _sometimes_ rather be outside the academic "circle" yet then certain advantages are possibly lost: I dont mean financial only ...I mean such as access to libaries, information, even input fom students and the very act of lecturing or presenting and communicating with people in one's field): and also "openings " for us to leap through or into gaps and across borders without physically travelling...now Bloggs I believe are becoming easier to make so that (at least I believe "sites" are getting easier to set up and so on) which argues a way of subverting or circumventing (partly) publishing itself (Silliman doesnt neccessarily need to as he is quite widely published, although, looking at Borders just now in Auckland there are very few poets there like Bromige, Silliman, Piombino, Watten, although these and Silliman and Howe and others are more likelty to appear than the more "obscure" "post-postmodernist and post language poets and others even writers more "normative" [ this raises the probematic of the relativity of outsidedness or whatever and the degree of narginalisation and so on] (of course one can order books and more writers ("form the outside" so to speak maybe accesible): so Blogs (and somewhat (on) this List if we include a number of writers such as Lanny Quarles (who kindly gave me some insight into his work when I inquired into it "back channel"), Kari Edwards, Lacook, Berhle, and Aaron Beltz and many others) and others are a way of self-publishing (another way as well as chapbooks) maybe not totally satisfactory but who knows Jim Andrews, Sondheim, Bill Austin,(and the Australian writers: sorry have blanked out on their names - Kominos Zervos is one) and many others are doing some extraordinarily good work with Vispo: now maybe that is (partly) "the future" as people say, but I feel that Patrick is warning us of the problem of alienation, of sticking our heads in the teleological-political sands (I think I know what teleological means but what the hell I love the word!)... So we need to be aware of the various traps and pitfalls, and when we do need some ego stroking - we dont need it much - but encouragement or aknowledgement is good - and I have always tried to support writers I like and encourage others (after all I may not "like" their writing but it could be "doing" something that I may come to see later as valuable or stimulating). I think also that although the mark has been drawn in the conceptual-political sand, and Bush baby is off on his "High Noon" adventure with Destiny - god bless him - l o n g l i v e B u sh (drn...) - and we maybe dont need hope we do need the possibility of a good outcome and not everyone can be as courageous as the Senators (including the one whose plane crashed and the woman Senator to whom I emailed my support ).... So - I'm wandering around I know - but meantime we need to keep writing and making and thinking and being artists: just as the Jewish people and others in the 2nd w. war kept their culture or beliefs and customs going: think eg of the French musician who performed a symphony (?) in a concentration camp: now that doesnt preclude (present time) discussion, action, courage and commitment for us now (I mean being hopeful is good: but not naive hopefulness): now I know that the Democrats are not relevant to me as such (being in NZ) (nor are they particularly (if at all ) left): yet the significance of the support that Bush is getting is ominous to everyone of any sensitivity or intelligence: this sense of alienation for many people might be coupled with despair or fear..but contra that I can point out the confidence that Mao Tse Tung had when talking to (the Americans) Jack Belden (in separate books) and Edgar Snow when he calmly and confidently expressed the inevitability of defeat of Germany and the Japanese and ultimately of Imperialism, and this at a time when he and his forces were greatly outnumbered it seemed): but this doesnt mean that we all breathe sighs of relief and blogg out (although some late night and secret Blogging is allowed according to Section 654w/7654!): nay, those of us who can need to unite and think and very soon we can each decide how to act. In this, in the main, I agree with Patrick: but nor should that mean we stop writing (witness Brecht's poetry and drama going on during the war) . Political alertness (we are deeply alarmed by Auschwitz etc) can be coupled with continuance: hence Bloggs may have their place (even if they are temporary refuges or regrouping places before the great L+A+N +G and the human counterattack). Mao Tse Tung said "An army without culture is a dull-witted army" I dont know if I am a "Maoist" I just get inspired by aspects of Mao's ideas and his life and times and I see that (in theory at the very least) art and politics neednt crush each other to death. In know the dangers of "social realism" etc and certain kinds of wooden thinking: (and of the dangers eg. of the Stalinist invasion of Hungary etc) and there is a parallel danger of thinking that we are "doing something concrete" by "talking" on Bloggs or the Net - we need to go out into the "real" world as well. It looks as though the Right are crossing -have crossed ? - their Rubicon and the Left are a running to catch up. Nor do we need to hold grudges about old fights: we need unity now, and remember that people change, whether we like the change is irrelevant we need to be aware that change is ongoing. (eg Harry Nudel might even agree with me one day!!!) These are dark but not hopeless times. Richard Taylor. PS. I was discussing the langpos and politics at a party last night commemorating the Russian revolution and my friend Scott explained to some of the politicos there the paradox of such as David Antin's seeming total reversal in his poetical/political thinking but I cant help but recall how brilliant his "talk poems were/are" (even having only seen them and not having been present at a readingof them): how powerful a weapon they could be now for proaction against the Right ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:41 PM Subject: Re: There Can Be Only One: To Blog or not to Blog? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:48:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: meanwhile in dark caves . . . In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable meanwhile in dark caves . . . I awoke as . . . sluggishness with a . . . never wanting . . . a vigil for . . . recognized not in . . . . four bars four squares for . . . between an atm . . . between an atom . . . medium black please . . . in both directions . . . not here I . . . tried to tell . . . would please . . . even before my . . . that was . . . at the top . . . and now you . . . with a happy . . . doing here in your . . . all this and . . . moving about . . . or rather until recently . . . then this one was definitely . . . a car passed on . . . don=92t call me . . . I signaled left . . . moving from one . . . hey cookie wanta=92 . . . how bout a . . . bonding agent that permeates . . . large well framed . . . at the same moment . . . in love with . . . the color of . . . down a long dark . . . moral judgment . . . most of my life I . . . never enough can be said . . . back fire escape to . . . a physical time that became . . . the limits of what is . . . inside roses and . . . on trains like a . . . enough to try to give . . . a child who walks down . . . invisible and go aware . . . I need to be . . . no longer who . . . I-don=92t-know-anymore . . . when there are rules . . . dissolve desire through . . . according to the media . . . somewhere is better than . . . a half inch away from . . . lipstick smudged and everything . . . such a way that . . . either myself or . . . sensual forms that which . . . perching on a rock form in order to . . . an immense quivering . . . resembled another cycle of . . . insect-like . . . thoughts that I . . . horizontally over the . . . that had been unknown . . . its gold seal showed . . . swampy regions of . . . slush-stained-by-piss-colored . . . those who are poor . . . established for the maintenance of . . . realms of names from . . . staircases and tenements like . . . paint by listing . . . . like when bad things grew . . . pledged to . . . according to . . . a thousand silken fingers . . . ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:06:47 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia: Dark rings and Galileo Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia: Dark rings and Galileo yet nearly invisible.=20 And even wider=20 than Saturn's if that is imaginable. dark rings and Galileo really took the plunge. seven years, extended Twice. Seven years or Circumambient and shadowed. Shadowed in amber & distant. * Striking! Kicking up dust! You must! and thrust into the path, pelted. Explodes! * Tenuous, shadowed in amber and distant. So hard to define never mind study. Dust. Grains. * Approaches, reproachful, passes through the gossamer wings. Rings static charged. Burrows. Disperses. Orbits like. Pitched. Anything. Without losing momentum it utters one less, merely dust from surfaces * The grains spiral. Spiral in Spiralling, disappear. One stutters. But freely. Are. Gravitational tug. Moons. * Constantly pelted. Meteorites impact! Create debris & dust. Impact. Creates=20 debris & dust. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:34:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey Saint Jude Lose your cause if only to Keep me Up nights Worrying about if you're alive OR Just being born I forgive all Trespasses But feel the Worst among Beastly hands and merciless mercenaries Display yr contempt for Vanity Presses and Arranged marriages While traced phonecalls leave you Broken Blessed are those chain reactions that attract Foxes like you Dangling from the limbs of Willows In yr legendary room you've seen Plenty how To hotwire a soul while I groove to the smell of Noxious markers Allegendly permanent I need to lose my virginity If you a crawling toward me, I am Crawling toward the horizon and You, At its most bewildering the Waterfront's bustling with Spies who steal the trashcans and Benches, who martyred the sun in some poems variously for Kicks _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:41:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Sad, the Mad, the Dead, the Dying, the Sick Police Actions that fail to Smother the electorate Block sender and Feel better, Less obliged to answer the bells Smitten with disruptive forces For change but to Disturb you find more Unthinkable positions Still wet from the Disinfection and wash But what Prevails? You're sexy voice and issues I'm invincible Beneath Life's trials And hung Juries Sorry for our unpreparedness Novenas that crap Out before Inspiring I have visited the birthplace and the center of Our troubles at first Disconcerting I want you to be as Understanding As you are naked and ready Roadblocks that discourage exploration and explain Away Divinity--you fool no one and No thing we won't Get ruled again _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:25:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: St. Ann's Review? Nov 21? Comments: To: Millie Niss on eathlink MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Millie, Here is the info for Phil's reading for Saint Ann's Review -- 7:00 p.m. Nov 21. Housing Works Used Book Cafe --- 126 Crosby Street, NYC 10012. (212-334-3324) I hope to be there, and if any of you will be there too and would like to say hello, I'll be the tall extremely handsome man in the brown tweed jacket. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:41:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: poetry for inmates Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Karen, I taught a two-part creative writing course with Gabe Gudding at Marshall County Correctional Facility in Holly Springs, Mississippi, 2001-2002. It's a medium security prison and there was a high level of motivation among the prisoners. There was also an ethos of education, particularly religious education, in the prison. Two types of work were particularly useful: work with a strong clear structure which could be exploited for the students' own writing, e.g., Christopher Smart's Jubilate Agno ("my Cat Jeoffry"), which also appealed because its rhetoric was familiarly biblical; haiku by Etheridge Knight and Richard Wright, both from Mississippi; Joe Brainard's I Remember. I Remember also exemplified the second type of very useful work: work that encouraged students to be daring in choice of subject matter. Russell Edson was good, and also offered the model of the prose poem, which was very advantageous, especially at the beginning of a course when the convention of end-rhyming can be deadening. One of the poems students used most was a translation (by Robert Graves, I think) of the early Irish Amergin: students used the frame for their own self-sketching in metaphor: I am a Stag: of seven tines I am a Flood: across the plain I am a Wind: upon the waves I am a Tear: the sun lets fall I am a Hawk: above the cliff I am a Wonder: among flowers I am a Wizard: who but I sets the cool head aflame? I am a Spear: that roars for blood I am a Salmon: in a pool I am a Lure: from Paradise I am a Hill: where poets walk I am a Boar: ruthless and red I am a Breaker: threatening doom I am a Thorn: beneath the nail I am a Tide: that drags to death I am an Infant: who but I peeps from the unhewn dolmen arch? I am the Womb: of every holt I am the Blaze: on every hill I am the Queen: of every hive I am the Shield: for every head I am the Tomb: of every hope Some students loved Hopkins. Baraka's "SOS" got a strong response. Limericks were useful forms which provoked entertaining subject matter. In fact, the most useful work combined strong clear form and unconventional subject-matter. Good luck, I miss my students and find access difficult these days. Mairead >>> KLeeLew@AOL.COM 11/09/02 16:15 PM >>> Hi, I'm looking for poetry that would be suitable for male inmates of a maximum security prison. This particular group is segregated from the general prison population. They have IQ's of 70 or less and are imprisoned because of sexual crimes and murder. I am looking to put together a packet of poetry that the inhouse educator/guard might find useful. Any suggestion of resources/poems would be appreciated. Thanks, backchannel is fine. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:01:06 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: SEGUE READING SERIES: Nov. 16: Phoebe Gloeckner and Kathleen Fraser Comments: To: Rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Brian Stefans [arras.net] [mailto:bstefans@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:01 PM To: bstefans@earthlink.net Subject: SEGUE READING SERIES: Nov. 16: Phoebe Gloeckner and Kathleen Fraser SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. Curators: October/November--Brian Kim Stefans & Gary Sullivan December/January--Laura Elrick & Michael Scharf ***************************************************************** Phoebe Gloeckner, a critically-acclaimed cartoonist originally from the Bay Area (where she performed in a number of Kevin Killian's plays), recently moved to Long Island. She is the author of the searing and occasionally banned A Child's Life and a brand-new hybrid novel/journal/comic book, Diary of a Teenage Girl (both from North Atlantic Books). Read her work at www.ravenblond.com/pgloeckner/. One of the Bay Area's most beloved poets, Kathleen Fraser was a founding editor of How(ever) and its online manifestation, How2. More importantly, she is the author of more than a dozen books of poetry, each more inventive than the next. About her Selected Poems, Patrick Pritchett notes her "devotion to discovery, her willingness to risk, and her profoundly lyrical sense of the intimate." Her homepage is at: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/fraser/. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:11:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "L.A. Phillips" Subject: cambridge, ma apt for rent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dear fellow list-members some friends of mine are moving from their inman square apt soon and are trying to help find new tenants. it is in inman square in cambridge, not too far from harvard. i've seen the place and it is lovely with some nice modern amenties. good for students or professionals. also, if you are just one person interested who would need a roommate, i have a contact with a friend who would be interested in sharing. see description and email contact info below. l.a. phillips 2-Bedroom Apartment for Rent Inman Square, Cambridge Available: 12/1/02 or 12/15/02 $1650/month This exceptionally beautiful apartment is a short walk to great restaurants, markets, and the movies. Location: Near Inman Square, Cambridge On Harvard - Lechmere Bus Route 12-minute walk to Central and Kendall Squares Amenities: Hardwood floors Modern kitchen with dishwasher Modern bathroom Central A/C and heat Private parking available Laundry in building Semi-private back deck entrance Contact: InmanSqApt@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:08:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: cambridge, ma apt for rent In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII garbage can for rent. no bugs. ultra-cool, stainless steel, contemporary minimalist design. round opening lets you "frame" experience to fit your fancy. can is currently located in silver springs, md, but can be hauled tortoise-fashion just about anywhere once you get the knack. it helps to drill eyeholes, unless you like surprises, in which case you can simply stare at your feet. eyeholes will, however, make the can less seaworthy, if the sea's your destination. if the sea is your destination, probably best to refrain from drilling eyeholes and rely instead on sense of smell -- silver springs not all that far from the ocean. bonus: all refuse yours to keep. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:17:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Tetanus For Breakfast Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed crossing himself that day laud as normal large enclosures foxy with apostasy hospitality in a French cemetery furtive version makeshift corridors isn't quite this far peculiar properties the sign whistled up sacraments and syringes close-cropped dark better shape, dice roll, still weakened voice understand anybody close to opening up _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:19:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: APG Third Eyedrum Event Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v481) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Atlanta Poets Group -- Live at the Eyedrum Gallery November 21, 2002 8:00 pm announcing: the 4th Celebration of Annual APG Day-- =93The Polyphonathon=94 (Annual APG Day commemorates the group=92s first public performance, and=20= falls somewhere between Nov. 15 and Nov. 25 each year) ********************* It's time for a Mono-punctuated Polyphon-a-thon with the APG. What is a=20= 'polyphon' you ask? It's a multiple voice poem (a monophon is what you=20= usually hear at readings). And because polyphons are in some respects=20 vocal music we'll break-up their tendency to overwhelm with short=20 monophons. It's earstrums at Eyedrum so bring your audio embouchure=20 because Lisp, is the word (LisP, [all] Language is Poetry). ********************* eyedrum 290 Martin Luther King, Jr. Drive SE Atlanta, GA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:31:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Roman Rubles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed recovered the terrifying reintegration the white shadow winding in and out once more the single note the uncreated syllable of their faith immediacy removes the ambiguity leave off hunting the same token the marked distinction inexperienced truth missed the prize calm, kind, prophetically fed hide your poets an eminent living draggletail cherish history unevenness fruitful, political, historical stamped upon the face permanently _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:23:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Frost, Corey" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Frost, Corey" Organization: CUNY Subject: Reading/Performance Nov. 20, New York MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit November 20th at 7-8pm at the Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard Street, New York City. $5 World Fusion Night Featuring Josey Foo, Adeena Karasick, Ed Lin, Barbara Decesare & Corey Frost Josey Foo's first book of prose and poems, "Endou" was published in 1996, and portions of it were included by Jamaica Kincaid in "Best American Essays 1995". She attended the Iowa Writers Workshop and has an MFA from Brown University. Foo won the Eve of St. Agnes Award in Poetry in 1995 and is a recipient of 2001 NEA and Pennsylvania Council for the Arts Literature Fellowships. Formerly an undocumented alien working odds and ends in New York City, she is now an advocate for the Navajo Nation in Shiprock, New Mexico. Adeena Karasick is a Canadian cultural theorist, performance and videopoem artist, and the award-winning author of five books of poetry and poetic theory: The Arugula Fugues (Zasterle Press, Spain), Dyssemia Sleaze (2000), Genrecide (1996), Mêmewars (1994), and The Empress Has No Closure (1992). Dedicated to the interplay of conflictual dialects, aesthetics, and textures that impact on the construction of feminist and cultural identity, her articles, reviews and dialogues on contemporary poetry, poetics and cultural/semiotic theory have been published worldwide. She is Professor of Poetry and Critical Theory at St. John's University in New York. Ed Lin's first novel "Waylaid" (Kaya Press) is loosely based on his childhood of renting out rooms to johns and hookers at his parents' sleazy hotel. Barbara Decesare is the Poet Laureate of 98 Rock WIYY Baltimore. Her work has appeared in over forty American journals, including Alaska Quarterly Review and Birmingham Poetry Review. Corey Frost is the author or editor of numerous chapbooks and a text-based performance artist who was named Best Spoken Word Artist (2001) by the Montreal Mirror. His first book of short stories, My Own Devices, has just been published by conundrum press (Montreal), and a book of prose poetry is forthcoming from Cyclops Press (Winnipeg) as well as a CD, Bits World: Exciting Version, from Wired on Words (Montreal). He is currently pursuing a PhD at the City University of New York and lives in Brooklyn. Sponsored by Rattapallax Press and Kaya Press Rattapallax Press 532 La Guardia Place Suite 353 New York, NY 10012 USA http://www.rattapallax.com http://www.dialoguepoetry.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:40:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: its the surface In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021030012057.00a1c1a0@mail.factorial.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit its the surface I mean I buy the moon - I say I could say no more, I say - motionless cuttings from things coming. like... - I've been watching you don't you know I say - give me a bus and semiconductors from back particular unimaginatives: worse? worse could the watching if I am always this - - apparatuses some change in half than again from certified complete - where did it say no antennas s to a warmer ...... crosses to never-never please - four cell wonder- wonder words extraordinary maybe wrong or marble or maybe - please this inconsiderate Inquisition ... exchanges ; & nothing flower diamonds - in different definitions ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:42:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Robert Mittenthal Reading N16; Discussion of Insurgencies N17 (KSW in Vancouver) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron: I wish I could attend Rob's reading. Sadly, our plans to be in V'couver at that time have fallen thru. It now looks like we will be there in late winter/early spring---March or April. I have newly a book of poetry out: AS IN T AS IN TETHER. I began it in V'couver, when I was at Cecil Green College.I would very much like to read from it in V'couver. If you send me a street address, I will send a copy. Let me know if you can help thru the KSW and in Seattle thru thw group there that Rob's connected with---The Salon?? As it would help to have a gig there also to cover expenses. Please give Rob my best, and dont forget to send me your snailmail details. Thanks, David Bromige \-----Original Message---- rom: Aaron Vidaver To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:37 PM Subject: Robert Mittenthal Reading N16; Discussion of Insurgencies N17 (KSW in Vancouver) >Robert Mittenthal Reading >Saturday November 16 8:00pm >Kootenay School of Writing >201-505 Hamilton Street, Vancouver, BC. >604-688-6001 > >Robert Mittenthal is a Seattle-based poet and critic. He is author of Martyr >Economy (Sprang Texts) and Ready Terms (Tsunami Editions). His poems have >appeared in a variety of publications including: Bird Dog, Score, Aerial; The >Kootenay School of Writing's Anthology: Writing Class; Mirage (a periodical); >Rhizome; Alterra; & Talisman. He is a curator of the Subtext reading series at >Hugo House. > >Impractical Negation: Towards an Affirmative Practice? >Sunday November 17 2:00pm >Kootenay School of Writing >201-505 Hamilton Street, Vancouver, BC. > >A discussion group on Michael Hardt and Toni Negri's Empire, and Negri's >Insurgencies: Constituent Power and the Modern State. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:29:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dale Smith Subject: New Possum Pouch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii skankypossum.com/pouch.htm featuring: Joseph Lease and Thomas Fink: Narrative and Critique Michael Boughn on Black Mountain’s 50th Anniversary Steven Taylor’s Loveland Jennifer Moxley’s The Sense Record and other poems New books by Flood Editions And more.... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:30:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: scrip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII scrip negotiator assaults i'm my best: you almost read world. right-hand brush vertical poised brush standing poised or standing upright or seating upright with seating clear with right-hand clear vertical mind of and 1930 presence calligraphy of book 1930 doing calligraphy service book following doing with service mind following and unknown unknown writing meaning, meaning, and look: clear do mind this unknown this:: will this:: follow. look: nature a i good-natured am sort left-handed, of a fellow, good- natured clumsy sort writing fellow, nature clumsy i always here, lacking right-hand clarity: vertical here, brush, brush, into scrawl always into lacking http://www.asondheim.org/portal/script1.jpg, script2.jpg, script3.jpg, to hang:: from hanging vertical from brush, fingers cursive: breathing look: cursive: don't don't hanging expect i much can't me:: this, can't do this, expect never much can from this. look: the the follow: < left-or-right > < the complex will spaces follow: > of night am follow best:: you: look: negotiations am best:: i negotiator > assaults best: i'm < my of best: spaces you look: almost can read almost world. the right-hand vertical brush poised standing or upright seating with clear mind and presence of 1930 calligraphy book doing service following with clear mind unknown writing and of unknown meaning, look: do this and this:: look: this will follow. of nature i am left-handed, a good-natured sort of fellow, clumsy writing and always lacking clarity: here, right-hand vertical brush, i scrawl into http://www.asondheim.org/portal/script1.jpg, script2.jpg, script3.jpg, to hang:: hanging from vertical brush, fingers breathing cursive: look: don't expect much from me:: look: i can't do this, never can do this. the will will follow: of the brush left-or-right < complex of spaces > into this night i follow you: of negotiations i am the best:: look: i am negotiator < complex of spaces > writing assaults me:: i'm doing my best: look: you can almost read the world. === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 03:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Qatsi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Director Godfrey Reggio on the Way We Live" (director of the Qatsi trilogy) http://www.naqoy.com/naqoy/statement.asp By any measure, we live in an extraordinary and extreme time. Language can no longer describe the world in which we live. With antique ideas and old formulas, we continue to describe a world that is no longer present. In this loss of language, the word gives way to the image as the 'language' of exchange, in which critical thought disappears to a diabolic regime of conformity - the hyper-real, the omnipresent image. Language, real place gives way to numerical code, the real virtual; metaphor to metamorphosis; body to disembodiment; natural to supernatural; many to one. Mystery disappears, replaced by the illusion of certainty in technological perfection. Technology, acceleration do not affect our way of living - they are, in effect, our new and comprehensive host of life, the environment of living itself. It is not the effect of technology on the environment, culture, economy, religion, etc., but rather that all these categories exist in technology. In this sense technology is new nature. The living environment, old nature, is replaced by a manufactured milieu, an engineered host - synthetic nature. In a real sense, we are off planet, dwelling on a lunar surface of stone, cement, asphalt, glass, steel and plastics, engulfed in the atmosphere of electromagnetic vibrations - the soothing lullaby of the machine. The common notion tells us that technology is neutral, that we can use it for either good or bad. From the p.o.v. of NAQOYQATSI, we do not use technology, we live technology; technology is our way of life. Being sensate entities, we become our environment - we become what we see, what we hear, what we eat, what we smell, what we touch. Where doubt is prohibited, we become, without question, the environment we live in. With our origins based in the natural order, should this context radically change (as I am suggesting), the mysterious nature of the human being shall also radically change - a change that will reflect the transformation of nature itself, at a turning point or vanishing point. Natural diversity becomes a burnt offering, sacrificed to the infinite appetite of technological homogenization. So forget science fiction. We now live the fiction of science. We are now, not in some remote future, cyborgs. We are at one with our environment - we are technology. In this wonderland, freedom becomes the pursuit of our technological happiness. Our standard of living is predicated on commodity consumption, as the shibboleth of the new religion is 'pray for more'. In vehicles of ecstasy, with cinematic engines of inertia at audiovisual speed, trans-port and tele-port blend into one. The beginning becomes the end. The port disappears in the speed of light. The nanosecond (one billionth of an 'old second'), technological speed, transforms reality as it creates an ecstatic phenomena of compelling and unparalleled intensity. By human measure, charismatic technique portends the miraculous, as it engenders the condition of 'exit velocity' - a condition that blurs human perceptions, shatters all meanings, drains all content and breaks our bonds to earth. All locations are subsumed into the startling terra firma of the image, a demonic conformity that is the genesis of massman. In the shadow of the mass, all previous definitions crumble. The 'time' and 'space' of history exit to an homogenized zone of no return. In this supernatural implosion of g-force, human moorings give way, sending Homo sapiens out-of-orbit into the void of technological space. The accompanying loss of original habitat and our subsequent relocation into accelerated space, throws nature into catastrophe, as it engenders traumatic stress syndrome as the now normal condition of post-human existence. Technique, while promising comfort and happiness, means power, means control, means conformity, means destiny. Technology creates a condition of war that is at once universal and unseen. The explosive tempo of technology is war; the untellable violence of relocation in technology is war. All of us are refugees driven from our human state. As the completion of the Qatsi trilogy, NAQOYQATSI offers a cinematic concert to experience the allurement, seduction and sanctioned terror of ordinary daily living - a world at war beyond the battlefield, a conflagration between old and new nature - total war. The vision of NAQOYQATSI is a world made in the image and likeness of the new divine, the computer - a world where unity is held in the vice of technological homogenization, the globalized world of techno-fascism, the age of civilized violence. It must be noted that the production of NAQOYQATSI employs the very medium that it questions. In doing so, we embrace the contradiction of using technology to question technology. Given the intention of the film is to commune, to connect, we employ the franca lingua of the technological order - what Baudrillard terms 'the evil demon of images'. The image becomes our location. We relocate onto the image, onto our venerated familiar, the iconic, as we reshuffle the deck to offer an iconoclastic experience in the form of a film. Indeed, the subject of NAQOYQATSI is itself the manufactured image, a horizonless digital landscape, devoid of reality yet full of promise. The tools that produced the film are themselves our subject. ***************** Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:28:33 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Of late on the blog Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Comments: cc: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reading new poetry: Richard Deming in Mirage #4 / Period(ical) #104 Ashbery's ear: "The Hod Carrier" + a link to Tom Devaney's review of Chinese Whispers What is revision & where do we find it? (Frank Stanford's The Battlefield where the Moon says I Love You) More on literary formation & the Canadian poetry wars Jack Spicer's literary hoax - Gene Stratton Porter Prosody vs. dialect - an American ear in other nations Ange Mlinko & Tom Devaney at La Tazza David Bromige's path to language Barbara Guest & the abstract lyric The role of critical writing within langpo http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:48:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: New Possum Pouch / Lease In-Reply-To: <20021111072947.34834.qmail@web40311.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dale Smith Writes: skankypossum.com/pouch.htm featuring: Joseph Lease ----------- I Reply: This reminds me, the Robert Creeley Best American Poetry this year was (slings and arrows from some aside) a very good read. I liked the Lease poem quite a bit . . . as well as many others by many others. Hard to see now why some people had so much to say against this volume . . . or what there really is to expect from an anthology of poetry anyway . . . Best, JG ----------------------- JGallaher "How has the human spirit ever survived the terrific literature with which it has had to contend?" --Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:13:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Latta Subject: Book Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What's below is an announcement of my new book, _Breeze_, with ordering information. Also cover blurbs by Don Byrd and Robert Morgan. Thanks. JL --------------------- Breeze, by John Latta Winner of the 2003 Ernest Sandeen Prize in Poetry, selected by John Matthias Paper ISBN 0-268-02171-6 / 116 pages Regular Price $16.00 Discount Price $12.80 / For individuals ordering directly via the Web. Go to: http://www.nd.edu/~undpress/ "John Latta is funny and deep. He watches things quietly and carefully, suspicious of everything he sees and hears, I think, and he writes quiet poems. You almost have to hold your breath to hear them, but they reverberate like thunder and sometimes like a distant battle. These poems are without precedence: the thunder and the battle haven't happened yet." --Don Byrd "In these poems we feel the verve and assurance of a most accomplished voice, a wonderful sense of relish and improvisation that keeps surprising. Latta's meditations lead us to unexpected, larger connections, unfolding like mathematical narratives whose terms we may not have guessed, but find exact, passionate." --Robert Morgan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:59:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: twinkle little star which foot mistress are you willing to aspire In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable twinkle little star which foot mistress are you willing to aspire just then a dog barked and the wicked witch of the west = showed up,=20 hot and sweating dismissive comments. the appointment was set for ten=20= in the morning due to the fact that www would go into fits and start=20 switching gender parts at a phenomenal rate in the afternoons. so it=20 was set for ten in the morning at wanna-jubilee-tammy-faye-baker street=20= on the corner of no-parking-tow-away-zone street, which was just this=20 side of steeple-bell-paul-revere street. we dressed in separate rooms since we were still not virgins and = our=20 forms not fixed. before we arrived I needed to pee, so we stopped at=20 the permanent station for dead on prayers. we both dowsed ourselves=20 with santa-flush, made an offering and got ready to choose, but there=20 were five doors to choose from, five positions, five limitations to=20 live by. the first, too big and boisterous. the second, that delectable flavor of raspberry, but I had this = thing=20 with seeds and preferred something stringy, not too salty, with an=20 expiration date at least two months in a different time zone. there was the one just beyond reach that I=92d used before, the = =93they=20 all stay the same=94 which was one rather boring situation. all that = room=20 offered was a smooth cap inserter device for measuring. there was=20 =93purchace, pay later,=94 but you had to catch it on the right day and=20= today I didn't feel like playing either side of the fence. just as I=20 was about to choose the "just uninvited concourse," which was between=20 the mezzanine and other world prospects, I heard, =93portable pot-o-let = .=20 . . one shot for a fortune - for news from the front . . . portable=20 pot-o-let we have the all new pot-o-let here - for news from the front.=94= I had no news from the front, but here was an easier and shorter=20= version than your typical "pot-o-let," this one had a string tie canvas=20= top. I=92d seen these before, you enter, take a position and secure the=20= canvas around your head so it sticks out, then you don=92t have to smell=20= years of human waste, you can stand or sit, it was a wonderful idea.=20 the entire convenience was on wheels, pulled around by an underdressed=20= individual who had more pashaw than chutzpah. as was requested I told a=20= fortune, since I knew there was never news from the front and never=20 would be. -once upon a time of wonder beyond myth and poetics lived a hunk = of=20 coal named virgil, not the virgil that everyone knew, who played front=20= center for the wiggle girls, this may all be true or it maybe false,=20 but this virgil was a major stock holder who was known to say; =93it's=20= what you have that conquers what you didn't have.=94 a petty saying, = that=20 went into the hall of sayings on a bronze plaque. this part-time=20 stockbroker was known for longer than normal speeches on the splendors=20= of coal. these speeches went on longer than the typical speeches castro=20= gave, a leader of a nation that technically does not exist according to=20= some, that still keeps their leader alive by breathing monitors and=20 three tons of cigars a year. like castro, virgil kept saying; =93you = have=20 to find a way to sell your goods no matter what the house and column=20 committee on fairness states.=94 this story seemed to satisfy the procurer of this wonderful = relief=20 station, so we did our business, exchanged one product for another and=20= got ready for our ten o'clock appointment. ten o=92clock, all devices would be set at ten o'clock, as the = binary=20 set off the bouncing mirror, no harmony, perfect harmony, angel food=20 cake and devils food cake parties. one - a pillar of solitude destroyed without anyone to talk to, = simple=20 sex but monotonous. a stick maker. a single bowling ball rumbling down=20= an endless lane, no strikes, no spares, no gutter balls, just the=20 endless rumble of the ball rolling down the lane. zero =3D zero - everything and nothing in the same moment on = enigma=20 lake. a count down to everything, every record from john hopkins to the=20= encyclopedia britannica, mary joe kepeckne, hilda dolittle, the last=20 word lee harvey oswald said, every word of virgina woolf's, beethoven=92s=20= music in an instant played as a timeless chord without reference. zero=20= everything, nothing, everything, nothing. one without a reference=20 point, no more checkers, no more win-lose games from lotto u.s.a..=20 watch as the wheel goes round-and- round, where it stops no one knows,=20= since it keeps going around and around. =09 we arrived at wanna-jubilee-tammy-faye-baker street for our = prenuptial=20 agreement. it should be as simple as stone, nothing to do with net=20 worth or gold thought - gold is god=92s child. it has nothing to do with=20= god, that would come later after the indistinguishable starts mating=20 formless form to formless form to the substance of paper, rock,=20 scissors. the first step, which is not the first step, but an incubation = step in=20 the process of many steps. steps from before, steps to follow steps in=20= the sand steps, stepping in the river of steps, steps which are never=20 the same step, always different steps =09 we stood there reading the instructions on door number 10372-b = of the=20 part time prenuptial agreemator. the instructions read: "when entering=20= this door you are entering a prenuptial process that ends when it ends,=20= begins when it begins. upon entering this door, grab a rake to the right (one of may = rakes to=20 the right), all the while think of red roses, red tears, red of red=20 deep souls, karma red, structure of red, the red sea, a sea of red will=20= be the world of red, a red universe, with red ants everywhere covering=20= the red universe in the middle of a red ant universe, surrounded by a=20 nervous breakdown begging for relief in red roses. once you have = the=20 red rose firmly planted, enter the room and rake away your foot prints=20= until you get to the next door and then knock three times." where the red of a red rose was suppose to be, I could only=20 manufacture shoe leather red. with my mind still jiggling between=20 rapture and public domain signage, we arrived at the door of three=20 knocks. once we had finished raking the now silver dirt, I knocked three = times=20 and just as the last knock finished vibrating through the heart of an=20 ancient tuva singer, the door opened with slow apprehension. as the=20 door opened the sun languished through the crack in a slow blue syrup,=20= driving over our bodies with the sweet sex oil found in carnival=20 products that promise to keep you alive and smiling for eternity. in the glare just beyond my vision appeared some kind-of = preorgasmic=20 worm that would swallow us whole in a hideous manner, from flesh to=20 bone, in toxic gastric juices not worth mentioning here, using us as a=20= caterpillar would use silk for metamorphosis, turning into a stand-in=20 for rock hudson, or maybe the glare was coming from a gem stone=20 imbedded in the thick skin of a creature that would turn into wallpaper=20= for liberace. it wasn't a worm, but www trying to stop me before I=20 entered- -we shouldn't go in there, this doesn't feel right even to me = and I=92ve=20 seen monkeys with wings strapped to their bodies, and poor poor judy=20 cracked up on speed . . . this isn't safe. just then the light went out and we couldn=92t see a thing, but = heard a=20 voice that sounded like a cross between a cackle and ronald regan at=20 the beginning of brain failure during the pivotal years as governor of=20= california. -oh I=92m sorry I . . . ah, I like to keep the shades open and = let the=20 sunshine in . . . please, please do come in. =09 slowly our eyes came back from their shellshocked retreat = telling us=20 more than we really wanted to see. before us was a simple wooden desk,=20= three fake wood chairs with red cushions, and on one of the fake wood=20 chairs, behind the simple wooden desk sat a head that was barely above=20= the three sheets of paper stacked on top of the desk=92s monthly=20 calendar, that had names written in red ink in neat black squares, in=20 the middle of the simple wooden desk, in the middle of the beige room.=20= within a moment or so or less this character with stone rimmed glasses,=20= thick as a barbecue pit, looked straight at us, or as straight as you=20 could while looking through the earth=92s core. -please, please come in . . . I have your names here in red on = the=20 blotter . . . . please come in and have a seat. the speed of light still singed my eyes, I grabbed www=92s arm = for=20 reassurance, which was silly since we were both on the slight side of=20 hell and didn=92t want to be here. the one with the storage facility=20 glasses continued. -oh, please do not be afraid, I am here for you, to take you = where you=20 will go from here. I started to notice this rhythmic pattern on my brain, it was = 4/4=20 time, that caused needles to dance on my spine, spilling out on each=20 and every nerve ending =93what?=94 just as I am about to scream in a=20 massacred shout, =93WHAT! WHAT! WHAT, there was a slide into another = tone. -please, please, come in . . . please try to relax . . . there=92s= =20 nothing to worry about. came a voice from below the desk=92s center drawer. -please . . . we must get started, so please sit down . . . = really,=20 it's not so much a request, as a demand. there=92s plenty to do and I=20 have more clientele coming . . . so please, please, sit down. what could we do but let our personalities go and enjoy the red=20= cushions on the fake wood chairs, and see what would happen next. again from the vertical hold and just below the surface, -since you two don=92t really fit the typical =93a / b=94 = holding patterns=20 it will take some extra paper work, more holy water and special spirits=20= from beyond that aren=92t normally called . . . but first, I must ask=20 your names for the record. -honey. -honey with a ie or a y? . . . and last name please? -just honey with a y, no last name. -ok, honey without a last name. -is this a legal name, without a last name, or one you adopted = by fate? -fate, without a last name? -just honey then by fate, without a last name? -no, just honey. -honey then? -yes, yes just honey, then. this was getting monotonous. how many times did I need to tell = this=20 full time bureaucrat, part-time prenuptial agreementor - honey, please,=20= just honey. but before I could follow that root cause this officiating=20= ambassador turned to www. -and you, what's your name for the record? -wicked witch of the west, old hag by the sea, crispy critter = kali=20 prerequisite. I was amazed to see that tiny hand write like a ceiling fan on = low. -is that it? I know in cases like this there are sometimes =20 precursors and premonitions? -well . . . you could add, jessie james, billy-the-kid, marilyn=20= monroe, Beelzebub and jimminy-cricket. -anything else, please don't hold back . . it=92s important we = get this=20 all down for the record. -well . . . yes now that you mention it . . . holy savior mother=20= virgin of the holy lands, seeker of alice b., with numbers and dates to=20= go with each ghost, would you like them? -no, no, that=92s fine, yes that=92s fine . . . before we begin = with the=20 powers vested in me by the terminal =93b=94 of the services of the = homeland=20 divine talliers, I am required to do the following survey, do you mind? all I could see was the top of those eyes magnified ten thousand = time=20 staring at use, creeping over the edge of the desk towards us. -no that=92s fine. we both responded. -and you . . .? then with those same magnified eyes looking at www. -do you go by wicked, wicked west, wicked witch of the west . . . what? - I prefer www. -good, we have that settled. now, before we begin, if you don=92t = mind I=20 need to shuffle the proper papers so it can be said it was completed. =09 three sheets of paper where shuffled, three pieces of cheap off = white=20 paper in a process that continued for millennia, through sunrises,=20 sunsets, full moons, natural and unnatural massacres, evolutionary=20 developments of certain species, the rise and fall of dictators,=20 oligarchies, and petty fist fights on east orange avenue. there was the=20= super bowl, the king of super bowls, and an all out bowl performed on=20 the digitized ed sullivan show. fascinating events too numerous to=20 imagine or recount progressed on a rat=92s stationery running machine.=20= some of the events we read all about later in the papers that were=20 stacked on our doorstep, approximately three hundred sixty four=20 thousand, eight hundred and seventy one newspapers. it=92s true some = days=20 were missed due to strikes, mechanical failure, nuclear winters, and=20 change of governments. the last one hundred thousand or so newspapers=20 were incrementally shrunk in size and syntax. we had to learn how to=20 read all over again. and the bills, well, needless to say, I am glad we=20= had opportunist insurance, since one is never certain when events like=20= this will happen. the insurance company also hired fake parents to=20 watch the house, and keep up the mortgage payment that we still have=20 six years left to pay. the fake parents watched the animals as well,=20 unfortunately the cat died, but by the time we returned home toto had=20 learned to speak three languages, play violin and was hosting a cable=20 call-in show for new beginners and escapees of the k-nine persuasion. slowly, with a fastidious gesture only a part-time prenuptial=20 agreemator and part-time hamburger inspector could offer. the papers=20 were shuffled as gently as butterfly wings. it was truly an art to=20 watch, especially since there wasn=92t anything else to do, but sit on=20= red cushions on fake wood chairs in a beige room, in front of a desk,=20 and stare at a desk calendar that was on top of the desk, that was an=20 ink blotter, that was used to remember times and write names, and on=20 top of it all, three sheets of paper. slowly, the miniature hands of=20 this part-time prenuptial agreemator and part-time hamburger inspector=20= whose head was mostly covered by ocean liner glasses, would take each=20 sheet of paper from the top of the stack of the three sheets and put it=20= to the side of the other two remaining sheets, letting it rest for=20 while in its new position out of respect and then with the gentle touch=20= of an unaware saint. the inspector would pickup the remaining top page=20= and as carefully as before with the first sheet of paper, placing the=20 second sheet on top of the first sheet that now became the second page.=20= it was truly a feat that took one to the inaccessibility of the=20 margins. as soon as the third page had become the first page, the small=20= agile hands would straighten out the pile of papers to within one one=20 thousands of an inch of displacement, and then, ever so gently, slide=20 the pile of papers over to where they had originated, and again,=20 straightening the pile to within one one thousandths of an inch of=20 perfection, only to begin the beginning of the process again and again.=20= I am not sure, but at the end of the millennium I think the original=20 top page ended up as the second page and third page became the number=20 one page. it was truly an amazing event to taste, as there were=20 miniscule paper particles that moved through the beige room, particles=20= that would hang in the after freeze of the moment in midair, in=20 midmind, midsentence for days or maybe years, just lingering there all=20= the while three sheets of paper were slowly shuffled, arranged and then=20= reshuffled, then arranged and reshuffled again for one thousand years,=20= to within one one thousandths of an inch of a supreme ideal. =09 then on a particular day that could no longer be calculated, at = or=20 about eleven thirty four in the morning, the monsoon glasses looked up=20= at us and said -first question of the survey . . . number one . . . given the = option=20 of a middle brick house and one unwillingly caught in a particle=20 accelerator, which by heavens, could it be? that one caught me off guard a bit and I had to pause, but I = think www=20 got the idea -yes? then it hit me just prior to the glasses nod of non-acceptance. -no! the answer seems insidious and as plain as day old bread, but = our=20 answers where dichotomous, were we against the grain? what did it mean?=20= would it stop us some how? -good . . . number two . . . there is no holding pattern? -yesterday, the day before yesterday. -very good . . . very very good. I couldn=92t answer that one, why did www know the answer, was I = stupid,=20 had I lost something in the last one thousand years? what did it mean=20 that only one of us could answer? what did it mean that this part-time=20= hamburger inspector had said good? good was one of us waved on in a=20 puff of blue smoke? was good as good as an approval or just an=20 apparition? what was going on here and why did I need to know? -question number three . . . I am going to read a famous poem = and I=20 would like you two to finish the last lines. afterwards garbled vision rose up in a howling poor cold bills divided between accountants and briefest of briefest once in a life time all the while cycles radiant silver glide by too busy to take notice take a break - fifteen minutes allotted so I store sunlight away in a paper bag and forget and throw it away . . . there was a station-o-station pause, we looked at each other, = then=20 back to the grand peeping tom . . . nothing . . . no words came . . .=20 no utterances . . . a little breath, maybe, or at least it had a=20 semblance of representation, then nothing. nothing came to our tongues,=20= throats, or lips, an empty pause was presented by another, then another=20= and another and then another. then within the capacity of a gesture, our jailer finally spoke. -that concludes our institutional survey, we must get on with = the=20 prenuptial prelude . . . mark your point, check your engines . . . are=20= you ready? we both nodded like praying horses. it had been a thousand years, we were ready for anything, ready = to=20 give-in and sign up for the new guess factor. destiny had revealed=20 itself, we could tell what was next. it was the last page . . . but = it=20 couldn=92t be . . . there must be more somewhere hidden at another end=20= of the book perhaps . . . in the margins . . . on top of something not=20= yet known. destiny is like that, after awhile it becomes the one and=20 only and the body is the record and the record is the driver of a bus=20 that will remind you of the next stop. from somewhere that is nowhere, outside those beige walls that = no=20 longer exist, barks something uncontrollable, just after the=20 announcement of premature ejaculation, a something uncontrollably=20 barks-back at the world, which it is an angry bark back to the original=20= bark that precedes the original bite that was left hanging the original=20= piece of damaged flesh that humanity has tried to recover from for=20 centuries, leaving an absent answer, a driving desire, a hunger filled=20= with acidic compounds unknown to the universe, producing birth-aches=20 that cause new newborns to cry in unattained crusades. later when=20 language is amended and the cries turn to screams, to shouts, to subtle=20= cannibalization, we=92re back where we started, a pregnant pause filled=20= with endless bantering all day and through the night, in the brain and=20= on the flesh . . . barking in the moment and filling the next with=20 barking. I stood alone with the voice in the crowd and someone came over = and=20 said I want to tell you a dream. -I was in this dark alley, I wasn't sure why I was there. I met = this=20 mechanic who said my car was ready. turning around I saw a 1967 light=20 green plymouth valiant up on a cardboard box, it was smaller than the=20 usual 1967 plymouth valiant. where there should have been tires there=20 was nothing but hubs the size of hamburger buns. after expressing=20 concern and doubt about the size of the hubs, the mechanic explained=20 they worked on velocity and the faster I drove the more friction was=20 created and the tires would expand to the size needed for the rate at=20 which I would travel. later, I was in the mechanic's shop, talking=20 shop, which seemed like the thing to do after having the function of=20 velocity, friction and expansion explained. it was a small shop, too=20 small for cars, that's why my car was worked on in the alley. then, as=20= if by the magic of dropping a coin in the coin operated laundry, two=20 characters appeared outside the shop, nebula rings formed around them=20 transforming them from ordinary size to super sized bikers with=20 futurist hairstyles. as they transformed they came in the shop acting=20 as bikers do, so I decided it was time for a scene change. in the dark=20= I saw john travolta driving up a hill on a golf cart, and then all of=20 sudden john stopped the cart and peeked through the snow fence. the=20 first thought I had was john was looking at me, then I noticed those=20 eyes were focused lower, on an old train underpass that connected two=20 train tunnels. there was just enough light in the air to show the=20 contrast of lightness in the world and the darkness of the tunnels.=20 just then, with a long range close-up, I could see what john saw, maybe=20= I was john at that point, I don't know, but there was something moving=20= between the darknes and the light. I had to use a special lens to see.=20= I don=92t remember if john needed a special lens or not, I doubt it,=20 knowing john. what I saw as I focused in was the nose of a rat sniffing=20= at a piece of food lodged under a rock in the tunnel, just inside the=20 lightness of the world. all I could see, and maybe all john could see,=20= was this rat=92s nose sniffing for some food. all of the sudden, without=20= warning, I was driving my car through the typical wormhole and sure=20 enough my tires were the right size. I will never forget the beauty I=20 saw traveling at the speed of light, whizzing by in my 1967 light green=20= plymouth valiant. then without notice I was hovering above what I=20 thought was a nighttime football game, except there were no opposing=20 teams. everyone was lined up at the 50 yard line, and as the runner ran=20= toward the main goal, and all the team members followed. mr. magoo ran=20= the other way, while those who got to the goal line fell over and died,=20= mr. magoo ran off the field never to be heard from again. then a bystander said,=09 -this will never do . . . this will never do. someone else from the crew heard the conversation and said, -it=92s time to close shop. my subsystems started to crash, at first slowly, then with a = violent=20 rage everything started shutting down, all the bystanders disappeared,=20= the crowd vanished, the marching band in black-and-red that trumpeted=20 the disappearance of the light in the basement, disappeared. generators=20= all over the grid failed, back up flashlights coordinating the=20 interior, failed. icons and myths melted into a salient ooze, vanishing streets = ripped=20 open into demented lust, hundreds of blank page dream journals where=20 crushed, vintage world war two bombers flying overhead were swallowed=20 by a large mouth abyss. just then a payload of pitfalls was released=20 proclaiming, -duck and cover, find a last minute shelter in your last = minutes,=20 your discounts can no longer be redeemed . . . start counting backwards=20= from 10. 10. emergency exits are shut down. 9. escape hatches have been sealed. 8. the navigational charts are burning. 7. the air is poisonous, filled with marble sized particles. 6. cooling and heating systems - have failed. 5. fail safe systems shut down and repair crews are kept at bay by=20 barking dogs 4. form ceases, the mouth ceases, the nose ceases, the eyes cease, = all=20 perceptual form has ceased 3. cells quit chatting amongst themselves 2. neutrinos fall out of orbit 1. all come to perfect stasis on the beaches of a quark. 0. nothing. nothing beyond nothing. words need not apply. nothing. zero. formless form without form. not one micron of measurable distance. not a speck of dust to cherish. nothing. no names, no place, no propriety, all procedures are gone, history is a=20= commode without its drawers. the present is gone. absolute zero. at that precise moment, within the beige walls, a worm screams, = a drop=20 of blood appears on the right nostril of the part-time prenuptial=20 agreemator. the body of the part-time prenuptial agreemator collapses=20 into its preordained parts. then nothing. zero. nothing, but stackable=20= flesh parts, that resembled something else but not that. at that precise moment we look at each other, and www grabbed my = hand=20 as I grabbed www=92s hand. we were in each other=92s hands, holding each=20= other=92s hand - looking at each other in each other=92s hand - pausing = in=20 our eyes juncture, meeting in each other=92s pause, a hologram of=20 precession pauses - in a diamond field of pauses. at the next precise moment, I reached over and picked up the = three=20 sheets of the shuffled paper, one sheet was blank, the next sheet was=20 titled prenuptial agreement questionnaire, which had questions on it,=20 but no answers. it felt like low grade copy paper between my fingers=20 and left an insecure feeling in my finger tips. the last sheet of paper=20= was titled =93official prenuptial agreement.=94 it had been signed by = the=20 prenuptial agreemator and there was one line for the prenuptial=20 agreematees signatures. we debated for the next few imprecise moments=20 about whose signature should go on the bottom and whose on top, and as=20= in other situations we let the desire play out and www=92s would be on=20= top. so I signed my name to it, an then www signed on top of mine. the=20= signatures merged into a new signature combining the most aesthetically=20= pleasing aspects of the separate two. grabbing the papers www turned to=20= me and said, -I think we need to leave, we seem to be done here. -yes . . . we only have forty eight hours after the signature = has been=20 fixed to complete step two of the process stated in the yellow page=20 review of saintly things two should do after seeing a prenuptial=20 agreemator and signing the prenuptial agreement. upon leaving the beige room for the earth room we found that it = had=20 been transformed into a soho apartment. =09 upon leaving the beige room where a body decomposes we found a = room=20 filled with toe clippings. when we left the beige room and entered the earth room that we = had=20 never left before, that had never seen the stars of night, we noticed a=20= note on the last door as we rushed to the exit. printed in pencil,=20 written either in the hand of someone who didn=92t know better, someone=20= with two fingers, or someone trying to hide their origin, it said=20 something like: =93twinkle twinkle little star which foot mistress are=20= you willing to aspire."= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:21:26 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: David Berman Reading (Bay Area) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some people might be interested in this--- November 20th. 7PM. David will be reading for Joshua McKinney. Soda Activity Center, at St. Mary's College. FREE and Open to Public. For directions, and more info. call 925-631-4088 St. Mary's is 15 miles from Oakland; 22 or so from SF From Oakland or SF take Highway 24 through the Caldecott Tunnel Take third exit, which will be marked Orinda/Moraga. Turn right and follow Moraga Way about 5 miles. Turn left onto Moraga Road, then right onto St. Mary's road. College is one mile further on right Thanks, Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:28:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: poetry for inmates In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Karen, I've a few things that might complement Mairead's and Jane's suggestions. (By the way, Jane, that Etheridge Knight poem you quote from is "The Idea of Ancestry" and can be found in his _Poems from Prison_, which he wrote while doing time in Indiana State Prison in Indianapolis. PfP was published in '68, the year of his release from that prison). In addition to the classes Mairead Byrne and I taught at the prison in Holly Springs, MS, I taught CW in a maximum security facility in upstate NY, the Auburn Correctional Facility. I began a cw course there and then taught it with a number of other writers from Cornell. All the inmates were violent felons doing a whole bunch of time. You're dealing with unusual and delimiting factors to me: (1) your students being very slow (all of our students at Auburn were really smart, as were the ones Mairead and I taught at Holly Springs); we just didn't have to deal with the low IQ issue; (2) The other thing we didn't have to deal very much with was, as you say, what the "inhouse educator/guard" might find useful. (1) Because you're going to be dealing with profoundly mentally challenged people, I would stick with stuff that's not so formally complex. Mairead's mention of the Amergin and Joe Brainard and the Jubilate rings a chord with me here because of the use of anaphora in these pieces, which I imagine might be appealing to the inmates. The Jubilate is going to be a stretch, though, in many ways because of its allusions and period language (though it is, essentially, a prison poem, as Smart refers to his "jailers" in the asylum here and there in the piece). I wouldn't know what to expect from people who are mentally handicapped: I might even, despite Mairead's caveat about rhyming at the outset, start out with rhyme if everybody had IQ's of 70, might even try some Edward Lear and Lewis Carroll. Some other poems whose content, clarity and form might be compelling are, say, Lucille Clifton's pieces: her use of silence, line-break, the clarity of her metaphors, and her stark, economical and crisp use of certain rhetorical figures, not to mention how she carefully freights her poems emotionally, might all be very useful. Also here some of CArl Rakosi's work or even Reznikoff? (2) I don't know what the guards and administrators are like where you're teaching, but the ones at Auburn were often somewhat obstructionist -- or at least that's often how it seemed. They had to approve everything we brought in, all our course materials, and this was sometimes tedious. I would often just sneak stuff in my satchel. Sometimes I'd sneak xeroxes of political essays, once I xeroxed a whole book on Islam in America for a guy, and many many poems that were considered, by dint of their content, contraband -- such as stuff by Ed Dorn, Baraka, Corso, Knight, some Giovanni, etc. I found that the men at Auburn were much more polite with one another and with the team of teachers than my undergraduates. They were used to being polite with one another, because in a maximum security prison being polite is a matter of life and death. But because your students are very mentally handicapped and have committed seriously violent sexual offenses and the like, I would obviously take great care with content, steering clear of pieces dealing with violence and sexuality (and that would rule out Edson, in my book, sorry Mairead). But I think that Amergin style and the Brainard are superb suggestions (except for, as Mairead mentions, right?, Brainard's reminiscences often orbit around his dong.) Gabe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:32:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: a poem for inmates Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A poem for inmates Turn this page into a shovel. The digging is hard but worth it. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:06:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: poetry for inmates In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021111113542.03abb7a8@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Karen - as odd as it may superficially may seem - I found great success (among incarcerated teens) with Theodore Roethke's work. His use of rhyme combined with all that oedipal authority/child vulnerability (I am guessing here) works very well with ears that are obsessed (trained actually) with/in hiphop rhyme structures. "Dirty Dinky" and "I know a woman lovely in her bones" were always big hits and momentarily brought down everybody's guard. Class improvisations off "Dirty Dinky" could be hilarious and communally liberating. And it's a way not to get caught-up with territorial condescension/combat/gang issues that can emerge (sometimes dangerously) in bringing hiphop to the plate. Stephen Vincent on 11/11/02 10:28 AM, Gabriel Gudding at gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > Hi Karen, > > I've a few things that might complement Mairead's and Jane's suggestions. > (By the way, Jane, that Etheridge Knight poem you quote from is "The Idea > of Ancestry" and can be found in his _Poems from Prison_, which he wrote > while doing time in Indiana State Prison in Indianapolis. PfP was published > in '68, the year of his release from that prison). > > In addition to the classes Mairead Byrne and I taught at the prison in > Holly Springs, MS, I taught CW in a maximum security facility in upstate > NY, the Auburn Correctional Facility. I began a cw course there and then > taught it with a number of other writers from Cornell. All the inmates were > violent felons doing a whole bunch of time. > > You're dealing with unusual and delimiting factors to me: (1) your students > being very slow (all of our students at Auburn were really smart, as were > the ones Mairead and I taught at Holly Springs); we just didn't have to > deal with the low IQ issue; (2) The other thing we didn't have to deal very > much with was, as you say, what the "inhouse educator/guard" might find > useful. > > (1) Because you're going to be dealing with profoundly mentally challenged > people, I would stick with stuff that's not so formally complex. Mairead's > mention of the Amergin and Joe Brainard and the Jubilate rings a chord with > me here because of the use of anaphora in these pieces, which I imagine > might be appealing to the inmates. The Jubilate is going to be a stretch, > though, in many ways because of its allusions and period language (though > it is, essentially, a prison poem, as Smart refers to his "jailers" in the > asylum here and there in the piece). I wouldn't know what to expect from > people who are mentally handicapped: I might even, despite Mairead's caveat > about rhyming at the outset, start out with rhyme if everybody had IQ's of > 70, might even try some Edward Lear and Lewis Carroll. Some other poems > whose content, clarity and form might be compelling are, say, Lucille > Clifton's pieces: her use of silence, line-break, the clarity of her > metaphors, and her stark, economical and crisp use of certain rhetorical > figures, not to mention how she carefully freights her poems emotionally, > might all be very useful. Also here some of CArl Rakosi's work or even > Reznikoff? > > (2) I don't know what the guards and administrators are like where you're > teaching, but the ones at Auburn were often somewhat obstructionist -- or > at least that's often how it seemed. They had to approve everything we > brought in, all our course materials, and this was sometimes tedious. I > would often just sneak stuff in my satchel. Sometimes I'd sneak xeroxes of > political essays, once I xeroxed a whole book on Islam in America for a > guy, and many many poems that were considered, by dint of their content, > contraband -- such as stuff by Ed Dorn, Baraka, Corso, Knight, some > Giovanni, etc. > > I found that the men at Auburn were much more polite with one another and > with the team of teachers than my undergraduates. They were used to being > polite with one another, because in a maximum security prison being polite > is a matter of life and death. > > But because your students are very mentally handicapped and have committed > seriously violent sexual offenses and the like, I would obviously take > great care with content, steering clear of pieces dealing with violence and > sexuality (and that would rule out Edson, in my book, sorry Mairead). But > I think that Amergin style and the Brainard are superb suggestions (except > for, as Mairead mentions, right?, Brainard's reminiscences often orbit > around his dong.) > > Gabe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:00:14 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Lewis Subject: Re: poetry for inmates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your input Stephen, I appreciate the suggestions and will add them to my list. I will post the completed list when I'm through gathering information. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:13:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: poetry for inmates Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Karen, Also, and further to Gabe's thorough response: it occurs to me that we were fortunate in *not* knowing the students' I.Q. Maybe I am mistaken in that. But I know--and I am talking only about the experience of a year--that the less information I had, the better, especially in relation to the prisoners' convictions and sentences (penal). That sounds counter-intuitive. Nevertheless, it worked for me. At the same time, by the end of this year, I had revised my original approach of treating a prison classroom as much the same as any other classroom. The sadness of teaching in a prison is different from the sadness of teaching elsewhere, or the "inexpungeable melancholy of the pedagogical scene" in general, as David Lloyd calls it. There is keen suffering involved in a prisoner's situation, and dismay, from an educator's perspective, at the sketchy connections, structurally, between prisoners and education, at any level. Finally, I agree with Gabe about Reznikoff, who has probably made the most powerful / noticeable impact of any poet on students I've worked with (outside prison). I don't understand why Reznikoff's works don't fly off the shelves. Maybe because they're not on them. And some of Edson is very sweet and tender; plenty of Brainard too! One of the great things about the prison in Holly Springs was *not* having to second-guess or censor. Working with Gabe was especially liberating in that respect. But the administration, religion-oriented though it was, gave us a free hand in choice of materials; and bought all we suggested for the library. Mairead >>> gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU 11/11/02 13:33 PM >>> Hi Karen, I've a few things that might complement Mairead's and Jane's suggestions. (By the way, Jane, that Etheridge Knight poem you quote from is "The Idea of Ancestry" and can be found in his _Poems from Prison_, which he wrote while doing time in Indiana State Prison in Indianapolis. PfP was published in '68, the year of his release from that prison). In addition to the classes Mairead Byrne and I taught at the prison in Holly Springs, MS, I taught CW in a maximum security facility in upstate NY, the Auburn Correctional Facility. I began a cw course there and then taught it with a number of other writers from Cornell. All the inmates were violent felons doing a whole bunch of time. You're dealing with unusual and delimiting factors to me: (1) your students being very slow (all of our students at Auburn were really smart, as were the ones Mairead and I taught at Holly Springs); we just didn't have to deal with the low IQ issue; (2) The other thing we didn't have to deal very much with was, as you say, what the "inhouse educator/guard" might find useful. (1) Because you're going to be dealing with profoundly mentally challenged people, I would stick with stuff that's not so formally complex. Mairead's mention of the Amergin and Joe Brainard and the Jubilate rings a chord with me here because of the use of anaphora in these pieces, which I imagine might be appealing to the inmates. The Jubilate is going to be a stretch, though, in many ways because of its allusions and period language (though it is, essentially, a prison poem, as Smart refers to his "jailers" in the asylum here and there in the piece). I wouldn't know what to expect from people who are mentally handicapped: I might even, despite Mairead's caveat about rhyming at the outset, start out with rhyme if everybody had IQ's of 70, might even try some Edward Lear and Lewis Carroll. Some other poems whose content, clarity and form might be compelling are, say, Lucille Clifton's pieces: her use of silence, line-break, the clarity of her metaphors, and her stark, economical and crisp use of certain rhetorical figures, not to mention how she carefully freights her poems emotionally, might all be very useful. Also here some of CArl Rakosi's work or even Reznikoff? (2) I don't know what the guards and administrators are like where you're teaching, but the ones at Auburn were often somewhat obstructionist -- or at least that's often how it seemed. They had to approve everything we brought in, all our course materials, and this was sometimes tedious. I would often just sneak stuff in my satchel. Sometimes I'd sneak xeroxes of political essays, once I xeroxed a whole book on Islam in America for a guy, and many many poems that were considered, by dint of their content, contraband -- such as stuff by Ed Dorn, Baraka, Corso, Knight, some Giovanni, etc. I found that the men at Auburn were much more polite with one another and with the team of teachers than my undergraduates. They were used to being polite with one another, because in a maximum security prison being polite is a matter of life and death. But because your students are very mentally handicapped and have committed seriously violent sexual offenses and the like, I would obviously take great care with content, steering clear of pieces dealing with violence and sexuality (and that would rule out Edson, in my book, sorry Mairead). But I think that Amergin style and the Brainard are superb suggestions (except for, as Mairead mentions, right?, Brainard's reminiscences often orbit around his dong.) Gabe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:11:44 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia. Voices in the Cathedral. Cracked bell Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Virginia. Voices in the Cathedral. Cracked bell I suppose it is all right if they only live at the foot of the ash tree. = Can't harm anybody from there and so long as they are there. The = sometimes happens and then they breathe and allow a breath to be taken = none can call them, leave a passage and a door if memory finds one. = Trash. Scrawl another. No such a reference seems unlikely could really = be anything. Classical or a legend. The quietus is but a writ, or = discharge, but only if you are a baron or a knight. At night it is = always different. Surrounded by burghers and whatnot. Virginia, the = middle of an. Alles quietus or not the voices of the Cathedral wes of = auld foundit and provydit for the use and benefite of ane person meit = and able to instruct the youth in musick on opposite shores an other = hears it. Never mind the railroad or the tracks obliged, by the = constitution to provide and be qualified in both kinds of song, and = especially=20 a skilled player=20 Te Deum,=20 the Benedictus.=20 The skellat bell now cracked=20 and useless=20 a pity and so=20 fine a bell.=20 Cracked and useless.=20 Tell me about the curfew bell. The curfew. And a three stop Willis. That = was the reason he came here former choirmaster, such a loving human = being, a fine man and friend. He always called his choir my dears. Died. = All his friends wept in the streets. Went home in tears. The three bells = used now were made in the 1500's=20 cast in tears probably cast in tears.=20 How are so many tears possible? How are they possible? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:47:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: i'm your huckleberry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Katherine, Mindful of Jordan Davis's "the response model on a listserv is to ignore ignore ignore," I note that you write to me in part: "your claims for your desires for an open debate seem disengenious to me- you did, after all, start this thing (i hesitate to call it a conversation) in a private e-mail. the gesture to bring it into a public- but not open- space, as far as i can see, was ron's." This whole question of NYS/Canada, etc., originally stems from a comment Ron Silliman made on his blog about my book -- not, as you seem to think, from any private email of mine to anyone. Ron's blog comment intrigued me, since I didn't think NYS was as much an "influence" as he claimed (and as it obviously is, in one or two poems). I addressed Ron in some private emails about this, wondering about the status of NYS influence in Canadian poetry generally. I raised one possible answer that might explain its apparent "absence," if such could be conceived (it can: absence of discussion), on the basis of a lack of metalanguage for the poets associated with NYS. (That is, I was not interested in explaining the *presence* of NYS in Canada on the basis of personal influences on poets' lives and works.) Then, Ron asked me if he could cite me for one of his blog entries; and so I discovered, along with anyone who reads Silliman's Blog, that he framed some of our discussion in the context of NYS influence in Canada from his Yank perspective. Following that, Ron posted emails from Tom (on Christian Bok, who Tom says was not, the last time he met him, interested in reading Lisa Jarnot and other NYS-ish contemporary poets), myself (yadda yadda), and Kevin (on NYS at KSW). Mine especially, functioned as a quick and dirty shorthand polemic (in a perverse mode that no one whom I directly implicated liked -- think of it, then, perhaps, as a counterpoint to Brian Stefans's sunny review style!), which spilled over here into a recent "shaming post" from me to Darren W-H. (I really don't know where an appropriate venue is at this point, for further discussion and for laying out points of view in more than polemic shorthand and flameworthy emails. I'm leaning towards the open letter or essay [in either case, print or online]. Thanks for your invitation to post on your blog comments bar, too.) So, to kind of sum up, it's not that there was "public" discussion going on about the question of the social (let's say on ubpoetics) that I then decided to enter in a self-protecting way by sending a private email "under wing of senior poet" Ron Silliman for his blog. Until Ron, Tom, myself and Kevin posted, there was no discussion going on about this issue of the social. Now, however, there might be such discussion (and of course it's been held before, notably on this listserv in the early 90s). Interestingly, no one *seems* to have found an appropriate venue in which to hold it -- which itself might say something about the structure of existing webspace from the viewpoint of the question of the social as conceived from a pre-internet frame and history. (This question of the social, post internet, is what I think your remarks about absence or not of a blog comments function are really about.) Behestedly, Louis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:18:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Archeo-Morphology of the Alphabet In-Reply-To: <002201c289be$a3ba91e0$f650fea9@LakeyTeasdale> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'd be curious to know whether any of you think that these odd short pieces are worth the pixels they are illuminating. Email me offlist with candid comments, if you like. As these works require precise formatting, you will need to download them as files onto your personal HD and open them in a pdf reader before they can be accessed. (Don't worry; they are very small!) Optimal viewing is as 2 facing pages fitted to your screen size. http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/pdfs/SMdia.pdf http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/pdfs/SMorph01.pdf http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/pdfs/SMorph02.pdf http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/pdfs/SMorph03.pdf http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/pdfs/SMorph04.pdf Enjoy! -m ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:47:02 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: 4th annual Vancouver Videopoem Festival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Hi there, > > >Hope to see you at >the 4th annual >Vancouver Videopoem Festival >"more than words" > >This Thursday, Friday,& Saturady >November 14, 15, 16 2002 > >$7 admission each night > >Pacific Cinematheque >1131 Howe Street > >videopoems from around the world > >Live poetry performances > >many of the directors & poets will be in attendance > >Videopoems from the U.K., New Zealand, Germany, all >over the United >States of America; New York, San Francisco, Denver, >Seattle, Boston, >Kansas City, Chicago, and from our own country entries >from Toronto, >Montreal, Victoria and of course Vancouver. > >With a nightly LIVE poetry Cabaret >"off-the-page" > >hosted by Emcee T.Paul Ste. Marie > >& featuring poetry performances from: > >RALPH > >CASS KING > >bill bissett >w/ dennis cornies on piano > >Aislinn Hunter > >Wayde Compton > >Susan Musgrave > >* * * as well as on Friday November 15th >a Cin(E)-Poetry SEMINAR and Workshop >with George Aguilar of Oakland California > >PLUS a special guest performance at the closing night >gala >along with a reception and awards ceremony. > >admission is $7 each night >the workshop is $10 > >November 14, 15, 16 2002 > >visit www.videopoem.com for more information > >or e-mail festival director >Warren Dean Fulton at >vvf@edgewisecafe.org >or phone 604-251-5845 > > >Warren Dean Fulton >festival director > >===== >Warren Dean Fulton vvf@edgewisecafe.org >Events Producer/Festival Director >4th annual VANCOUVER VIDEOPOEM FESTIVAL >Nov. 14-16, 2002 "more than words" www.videopoem.com >Box 18- 1895 Commercial Drive >Vancouver, BC V5N 4A8 Canada > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 To Post an Announcement regarding publishing, contests, readings, and any relevant literary news, send it to: canadianpoetryassociation@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: canadianpoetryassociation-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Poetry Discussion group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/participoet CPA Resource Center moved to http://www3.sympatico.ca/cpa National CPA is the same at http://www.mirror.org/cpa The Electronic Bookstore is http://www.mirror.org/hmspress Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:22:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ignore ignore ignore What duck sauce doesn't coat or Soak Transfusions fire up the arteries circling w/ Tough resistance Talking over the heads of Disagreeables but who Suffers when the dollars get Washed The mad world does the Detente at summits and Protests "the universe is full of lollipops" that taste like Ass And here there are only Jackals and Assassins With financing I'll save Billions on New Teeth while My hands are Getting demagnetized even the king of Backrubs can't undo your Knots and Laces You sit quietly, Expecting to get sick It is in these fearful moments We delete our Speeches to speak from diaphragms With pentagrams on our foreheads And flushed out From hiding we spill out of testicles Toward terrific boredoms and heartbreaks Along artificial horizons, forever Archived in plain sight _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:36:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate http://artscanada.cbc.ca/artsNow/index.jsp?label=poetlaureate111102&uid=4269 75 Arts Now Award-winning B.C. poet George Bowering will become Canada's first Parliamentary Poet Laureate. He was appointed to the post from a short-list of three finalists. Born in Penticton in 1935, Bowering served as a photographer in the RCAF. Until last year, he taught at Vancouver's Simon Fraser University. He's won two Governor-General's Awards for his poems "The Gangs of Kosmos" and "Rocky Mountain Foot" as well as his novel "Burning Water." He's also received the Canadian Authors' Association Award for poetry. Bowering has over 40 titles of poetry, short stories and novels. Paying $12,000 a year plus travel expenses, the position is largely honourary. His new duties will include addressing special occasions in Parliament, giving advice to the Parliamentary librarian and sponsoring poetry readings. The position was created when Senator Jerry Grafstein introduced Bill S-10. Grafstein said he wanted to improve the level of debate in the House of Commons. For more arts news, listen to The Arts Report weekdays at 7:12 a.m., 8:12 a.m. and 5:55 p.m. on CBC Radio Two. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:41:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Gillespie Subject: 11-11-2002: A Palindrome Story in 2002 Words In-Reply-To: <200211090504.gA954B5i009494@relay4.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ----- Message Text ----- Pure... Eligible Babs: flesh self's eros revolts, rubs. Babs, looted under Bob, seXes Bob. Red, nude tools. Babs: "Burst, lover! Sores. Flesh self's Babel big. I leer up." 2002: A Palindrome Story in 2002 Words, by Nick Montfort & William Gillespie, has just been published in a small (4 x 4) perfect-bound paperback with vellum wraps, designed by Ingrid Ankerson (co-editor of poemsthatgo.com), with inset vellum plates bearing five illustrations by Shelley Jackson (author of The Melancholy of Anatomy). The book is available online at http://spinelessbooks.com/2002/book. Celebrate the last palindrome year of our lifetimes. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:07:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Congratulations, George. Mairead >>> derek@HOUSEPRESS.CA 11/11/02 16:44 PM >>> George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate http://artscanada.cbc.ca/artsNow/index.jsp?label=poetlaureate111102&uid=4269 75 Arts Now Award-winning B.C. poet George Bowering will become Canada's first Parliamentary Poet Laureate. He was appointed to the post from a short-list of three finalists. Born in Penticton in 1935, Bowering served as a photographer in the RCAF. Until last year, he taught at Vancouver's Simon Fraser University. He's won two Governor-General's Awards for his poems "The Gangs of Kosmos" and "Rocky Mountain Foot" as well as his novel "Burning Water." He's also received the Canadian Authors' Association Award for poetry. Bowering has over 40 titles of poetry, short stories and novels. Paying $12,000 a year plus travel expenses, the position is largely honourary. His new duties will include addressing special occasions in Parliament, giving advice to the Parliamentary librarian and sponsoring poetry readings. The position was created when Senator Jerry Grafstein introduced Bill S-10. Grafstein said he wanted to improve the level of debate in the House of Commons. For more arts news, listen to The Arts Report weekdays at 7:12 a.m., 8:12 a.m. and 5:55 p.m. on CBC Radio Two. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: 11-11-2002: A Palindrome Story in 2002 Words In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This text is absolutely beautiful; I've bounced back and forth in the hypertext version - it reads like a shudder/shutter - energy full of Berrigan/Padgett meanderings years ago but held to fixed skeleton; it's the sustained/sustenance intensity of it & all that energy! - going to pass this on - Alan On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, William Gillespie wrote: > ----- Message Text ----- > > Pure... Eligible Babs: flesh self's eros revolts, rubs. > > Babs, looted under Bob, seXes Bob. Red, nude tools. Babs: > > "Burst, lover! Sores. Flesh self's Babel big. I leer up." > > 2002: A Palindrome Story in 2002 Words, by Nick Montfort & William > Gillespie, has just been published in a small (4 x 4) perfect-bound > paperback with vellum wraps, designed by Ingrid Ankerson (co-editor of > poemsthatgo.com), with inset vellum plates bearing five illustrations by > Shelley Jackson (author of The Melancholy of Anatomy). The book is > available online at http://spinelessbooks.com/2002/book. > > Celebrate the last palindrome year of our lifetimes. > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:21:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: PATRICIA LEIGH MULTIFUNCTION #020 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PATRICIA LEIGH MULTIFUNCTION #020 [excerpt] www.amazon-salon.com can shut up slums starve know rice cooked camotes cooked heat day fallen asleep arms afterwards poor abandoned nine men heads Tukukan mysterious seems soul virtue train we're hospital conductors Hence while quite another matter mean position Inheritance bequest alone who pure heart lioness barking cur drew engineering science must president- announces-maritech- projects biting conductors Hence while negroes Neither salt nor speeds recovered smallpox being barter seen among certain cries quotas galleys use can shut up slums starve know home impair delicacy take Inheritance bequest tense Austria said minister police impatience pity sake Madame Upper Normandy Martinet says gratitude wife recovery go strange still gained Greek ear-rings indicated elliptical jasmine reminding those happy never arrive sit down quietly does support concept selectin differentiate haploid demyelinating diseases will Inheritance bequest dishes pure gold temple least little property Such the porn woodruff extraordinary taking place mysterious seems soul virtue president quite another matter mean fossil wood Heer made cypress Majesty fell rose sank again asked king grant convict limb legs became heavy slow program suggested three conductors Hence while jerusalem quite another matter mean correspondent Majesty fell rose sank again israeli Iron much more rarely used very numerous Berry one most Majesty fell rose sank again women laundries valley fact one Zoe calm superiority whisper go hurdle overcome role sticks lighted courts glowing asshole Children said Zoe gravely consistent known eighteenth pulsated inhabitants those countries silver-sand while skeletons the explosion doubt moderate getting Vivanco San Agustin went face never idea head never Well all Children said Zoe gravely line Niemen All those works earlescourt Inheritance bequest thinking Having all mind remembering the stucco- roofs beams pale blue carriage shall go bed hungry absenteeism kind continued michael adjusted remains essentially hit miss woefully dog came forward carriage shall go bed hungry can shut up slums starve know agonist recognition relieved nodded absently thinking well-known aids sermonising always curiosity know why time world altogether home Again Colonel lunged throat dying can shut up slums starve know rice cooked camotes cooked dame rice cooked camotes cooked small much toil horses got does support concept selectin WAIT simpler less stimulating wouldst Phoenician Etruscan specimens uncomfortable hardly knew therapy neuronal tracings little ruefully who defense dollars masonry fortifications can shut up slums starve know thy they're strange still gained Greek conductors Hence while the Now wheels hardly turning Now diplomatic cousin silent polite Colonel spoke up Inheritance bequest diplomatic cousin silent expression Even very ill-paved street where obtained approach mutagenesis first view absurdity too --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:27:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: JOEY WAGNER INKJET #021 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JOEY WAGNER INKJET #021 [excerpt] www.amazon-salon.com instant need go way proof tell the president sir cried Alexi expands the instant need go way proof tell all made try now think time one morning mass separation instead focusing egoism course harm tight pussy squeezing dick green other red contently finally got all families struggling tight pussy squeezing dick afford instant need go way proof tell supercornute gods cusped Know Oh cried Sikes funds combined torrent seized paper the instant need go way proof tell funds provided cove will coves lose em will welfare reform saying Denise beautiful Old Gentleman recording the towering masses masonry one tight pussy squeezing dick still raise Juba wished receiving ends spindle drew back Ah Sansar cried like way nationwide cove will coves lose em will objects world women who perished hunger related dismal himself nor Septimius wish very slow nothing else matter mistake regarding reality ends spindle drew back kids bagels ingratitude grown great means moment Francesco hesitated the clinton-gore Handmaiden believed soul proposes tight pussy squeezing dick criticism garb humility right ends spindle drew back always very pleasant seemingly ingratitude grown great means initiative cove will coves lose em will tennessee objects world women who perished hunger related dismal himself nor Septimius wish ends spindle drew back Juba wished receiving relief efforts moment Francesco hesitated waistband himself nor Septimius wish the himself up know means replied Alexi bed moans longing pleasure Chakra Chakra Yogi certain wearing pulling occasion last talk very Gonzaga rose heavily drawing space superiority global people fell knees prayed tore Tithonus spouse Morn another pupil Origen been as murrain locusts all manner as characterize attitude man arguments Ignore trifles Alexi Twist absconded occasion last talk very Chakra Chakra Yogi certain prospect answered Rose Western concept Indian Hindu trying tight pussy squeezing dick floor vented threat lips all made try now think bed moans longing pleasure another pupil Origen tight pussy squeezing dick back supports himself one hand mistake regarding reality space superiority global fellows another pupil Origen faded smiles looks eyes asks friend michael Kindly let know can tread path destroying the hanged Old Bailey one morning produce portion rehabilitation peacekeepers deploying am sorry say hand glove set prospect answered Rose characterize attitude man saw struggled himself nor Septimius wish Staff Sgt Edward Carter Jr satirized anything whatever girl prophet priestess caught matter being settled Gonzaga describe possible Sri angle field indicated Alexi rays himself nor Septimius wish the beauteous luminary danced the strangers paths warriors conquering weary lugur bed moans longing pleasure seating himself deliberately peacekeepers deploying CHAMPUS TRICARE eligibility instead bath Store drinking made own words ain't stealing can drew Drake arms pushed tight pussy squeezing dick deep within newly fucked Mann starting back levels black eyed-maidens all made try now think --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:27:57 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: good luck and good poetry In-Reply-To: <20021109015255.23099.qmail@web10708.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-485E33F9; boundary="=======2F961921=======" --=======2F961921======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-485E33F9; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit News Tracker Alert: poetrynews Tue Nov 12 02:46:58 2002 -------------------------------------- November 12, 2002 New York Region: A Poet (and Proprietor) Is a Beacon in the Bowery NYT By LYNDA RICHARDSON Bob Holman, the ringmaster of the spoken word, has opened a new club. Full Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/12/nyregion/12PROF.html?tntemail0 --=======2F961921======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-485E33F9 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 15/10/02 --=======2F961921=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:52:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear list. Was just talking to a former student of Rexroth's a couple of nights ago and the question of Rexroth's chips--up or down in the po-market? came up. I'd be interesting in hearing from folks who use Rexroth's work in their classes and from people who include Rexroth in books and papers. What's Rexroth's importance now? Did the rather recent biography of R. by Linda Hamalian (sp?) really do him in? Is he included in anyone's canon? in anyone's new anthology of significant forefathers? Why or why not? Jess ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:18:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <015001c289ca$b0fdb010$4fc4cecd@housepress> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hey, like, DUUUDE! fuck 'em up, GB!! At 2:36 PM -0700 11/11/02, derek beaulieu wrote: >George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate > > >http://artscanada.cbc.ca/artsNow/index.jsp?label=poetlaureate111102&uid=4269 >75 > > Arts Now > >Award-winning B.C. poet George Bowering will become Canada's first >Parliamentary Poet Laureate. > >He was appointed to the post from a short-list of three finalists. > >Born in Penticton in 1935, Bowering served as a photographer in the RCAF. >Until last year, he taught at Vancouver's Simon Fraser University. > >He's won two Governor-General's Awards for his poems "The Gangs of Kosmos" >and "Rocky Mountain Foot" as well as his novel "Burning Water." He's also >received the Canadian Authors' Association Award for poetry. > >Bowering has over 40 titles of poetry, short stories and novels. > >Paying $12,000 a year plus travel expenses, the position is largely >honourary. > >His new duties will include addressing special occasions in Parliament, >giving advice to the Parliamentary librarian and sponsoring poetry readings. > >The position was created when Senator Jerry Grafstein introduced Bill S-10. >Grafstein said he wanted to improve the level of debate in the House of >Commons. > >For more arts news, listen to The Arts Report weekdays at 7:12 a.m., 8:12 >a.m. and 5:55 p.m. on CBC Radio Two. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:07:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Copper Canyon is doing a complete collected now. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jesse glass" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:52 PM Subject: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips > Dear list. Was just talking to a former student of Rexroth's a couple of > nights ago and the question of Rexroth's chips--up or down in the po-market? > came up. I'd be interesting in hearing from folks who use Rexroth's work in > their classes and from people who include Rexroth in books and papers. > What's Rexroth's importance now? Did the rather recent biography of R. by > Linda Hamalian (sp?) really do him in? Is he included in anyone's canon? > in anyone's new anthology of significant forefathers? Why or why not? Jess > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:11:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips In-Reply-To: <000e01c28a54$ca2ae550$d3ba56d1@ibmw17kwbratm7> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The book is coming out in January. John Palattella wrote a very good review of his work in last week's Nation. I'd be interested to see what others thought of it. Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry for many years, but we don't have anymore Rexroths today. During the 1940s, Rexroth wrote great poetry; it was that solid decade that we will remember in turns of his poems. Many poets only wish they could have a decade like Rexroth's 1940s. --Ak At 09:07 AM 11/12/2002, you wrote: >I think Copper Canyon is doing a complete collected now. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jesse glass" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:52 PM >Subject: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips > > > > Dear list. Was just talking to a former student of Rexroth's a couple of > > nights ago and the question of Rexroth's chips--up or down in the >po-market? > > came up. I'd be interesting in hearing from folks who use Rexroth's work >in > > their classes and from people who include Rexroth in books and papers. > > What's Rexroth's importance now? Did the rather recent biography of R. by > > Linda Hamalian (sp?) really do him in? Is he included in anyone's canon? > > in anyone's new anthology of significant forefathers? Why or why not? >Jess > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:32:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <200211121204.gACC4xV17311@franklin.concentric.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria, Maria. Blowridge is just the ticket for level-of-debate improvement, as we all know. I am especially eager to hear his advice to the Parliamentary librarian. Too much fun! Congrats, George. > hey, like, DUUUDE! fuck 'em up, GB!! >His new duties will include addressing special occasions in Parliament, >giving advice to the Parliamentary librarian and sponsoring poetry readings. > >The position was created when Senator Jerry Grafstein introduced Bill S-10. >Grafstein said he wanted to improve the level of debate in the House of >Commons. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:34:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20021112090909.034e3728@mail.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry { for many years I love uneven poetry, the peaks and valleys of it. Hate the even stuff, reminds me of parking lots at megamalls. Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting nowhere, and that is a pleasure." --John Cage Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:45:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think John was very honest in his appraisal of Rexroth and his admiration for the poet and his poetry certainly resonate through the review. --Ak At 09:34 AM 11/12/2002, you wrote: >{ Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry >{ for many years > >I love uneven poetry, the peaks and valleys of it. Hate the >even stuff, reminds me of parking lots at megamalls. > >Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting > nowhere, and that is a pleasure." > --John Cage > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:51:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Rexroth is one of the least understood U.S. poets of the 20th Century. Being the MC for the gala beat reading forever branded him as a beat during his lifetime. His Collected Poems is a time for re-evaluation. He's in almost every anthology: Norton, Weinberger's, Rothenberg's, Forche's. Things to look for in the new book: -his early work, which was considered in the Objectivist's anthology, is some of the best of that genre but are long overlooked. -his love poetry may be the best we have -his "nature" poetry has the inklings of a new human philosophy that Gary Snyder went on to live -his poem "Thou Shalt Not Kill" inspired Ginsberg to write Howl. -he became an "asian" writer in the end, his work became a complete about face and its hard to compare his last work to his early objectivist work and think its the same guy Hamalian loves his work, she was just honest about the man he was, which is a completely separate story. KG Anastasios Kozaitis wrote: > The book is coming out in January. John Palattella wrote a very good review > of his work in last week's Nation. I'd be interested to see what others > thought of it. Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry > for many years, but we don't have anymore Rexroths today. During the 1940s, > Rexroth wrote great poetry; it was that solid decade that we will remember > in turns of his poems. Many poets only wish they could have a decade like > Rexroth's 1940s. > > --Ak > > At 09:07 AM 11/12/2002, you wrote: > >I think Copper Canyon is doing a complete collected now. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "jesse glass" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:52 PM > >Subject: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips > > > > > > > Dear list. Was just talking to a former student of Rexroth's a couple of > > > nights ago and the question of Rexroth's chips--up or down in the > >po-market? > > > came up. I'd be interesting in hearing from folks who use Rexroth's work > >in > > > their classes and from people who include Rexroth in books and papers. > > > What's Rexroth's importance now? Did the rather recent biography of R. by > > > Linda Hamalian (sp?) really do him in? Is he included in anyone's canon? > > > in anyone's new anthology of significant forefathers? Why or why not? > >Jess > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:53:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: Homero Aridjis MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone have contact info for him? If so, please backchannel. kg Alan Sondheim wrote: > This text is absolutely beautiful; I've bounced back and forth in the > hypertext version - it reads like a shudder/shutter - energy full of > Berrigan/Padgett meanderings years ago but held to fixed skeleton; it's > the sustained/sustenance intensity of it & all that energy! - going to > pass this on - Alan > > On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, William Gillespie wrote: > > > ----- Message Text ----- > > > > Pure... Eligible Babs: flesh self's eros revolts, rubs. > > > > Babs, looted under Bob, seXes Bob. Red, nude tools. Babs: > > > > "Burst, lover! Sores. Flesh self's Babel big. I leer up." > > > > 2002: A Palindrome Story in 2002 Words, by Nick Montfort & William > > Gillespie, has just been published in a small (4 x 4) perfect-bound > > paperback with vellum wraps, designed by Ingrid Ankerson (co-editor of > > poemsthatgo.com), with inset vellum plates bearing five illustrations by > > Shelley Jackson (author of The Melancholy of Anatomy). The book is > > available online at http://spinelessbooks.com/2002/book. > > > > Celebrate the last palindrome year of our lifetimes. > > > > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ > http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt > older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html > Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:16:48 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: paula speck Subject: DC reading--Poetry in Translation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed All-- At 7:30 p.m. on Thursday, November 14, there will be a reading of poetry in translation at the Nora School, 955 Sligo Avenue, Silver Spring, Maryland. The school is just off Georgia Avenue in downtown Silver Spring near the D.C. line and the Silver Spring Metro stop. More info is at "www.nora-school.org/series.html." The readers include Myong-Hee Kim, who will read her translations of work by the Korean poet Lee Sang, Paula Speck (me), who will read her translations of Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Joao Cabral de Melo Neto, and Pablo Neruda, and local Spanish-speaking high school students. Cheaper than a trip to Asia or South America, free, and with modest refreshments afterwards. Hope some of you can come. Paula _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:36:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" yes. unevenness makes the world go 'round. At 9:34 AM -0500 11/12/02, Halvard Johnson wrote: >{ Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry >{ for many years > >I love uneven poetry, the peaks and valleys of it. Hate the >even stuff, reminds me of parking lots at megamalls. > >Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting > nowhere, and that is a pleasure." > --John Cage > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:12:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This reminds me both of Nietzsche's limping poet and Anne Bradstreet's stumbling brat-book. I'm with them. Mairead >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 11/12/02 10:43 AM >>> yes. unevenness makes the world go 'round. At 9:34 AM -0500 11/12/02, Halvard Johnson wrote: >{ Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry >{ for many years > >I love uneven poetry, the peaks and valleys of it. Hate the >even stuff, reminds me of parking lots at megamalls. > >Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting > nowhere, and that is a pleasure." > --John Cage > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:17:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Max Winter Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a poet with an "even" career... Max Winter --- Mairead Byrne wrote: > This reminds me both of Nietzsche's limping poet and Anne Bradstreet's > stumbling brat-book. I'm with them. > Mairead > > >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 11/12/02 10:43 AM >>> > yes. unevenness makes the world go 'round. > > At 9:34 AM -0500 11/12/02, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >{ Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry > >{ for many years > > > >I love uneven poetry, the peaks and valleys of it. Hate the > >even stuff, reminds me of parking lots at megamalls. > > > >Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting > > nowhere, and that is a pleasure." > > --John Cage > > > >Halvard Johnson > >=============== > >email: halvard@earthlink.net > >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > > -- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:19:28 -0500 Reply-To: cartograffiti@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "cartograffiti@mindspring.com" Subject: FW: THE NEW BRUTALISM: READINGS BY YOUNGISH DIVINERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those in the Bay Area on the 24th=2E=2E=2E Taylor Original Message: ----------------- From: mcross@mills=2Eedu Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:42:51 -0800 (PST) To: 21grand@onebox=2Ecom, mcross@mills=2Eedu Subject: THE NEW BRUTALISM: READINGS BY YOUNGISH DIVINERS THE NEW BRUTALISM: READINGS BY YOUNGISH DIVINERS (Please forward to all interested parties) Hello all: Please join us for our pre-Thanksgiving / post-Halloween event on=20 Sunday, November 24 at 21 Grand (yes, this is a fourth Sunday! Don't be=20= fooled!)=2E K=2E Silem Mohammad and Trevor Calvert will be reading poems=20= from their mouths, and you will be hearing them with your ears and being=20= pleased=2E There will be more alcohol this time, and I promise to be healt= hy=20 and ready to schmooze! What this means to you: K=2E Silem Mohammad and Trevor Calvert November 24/ 7-9pm 21 Grand 449B 23rd Street, Oakland (Between Broadway and Telegraph Avenue) (Further directions at www=2E21grand=2Eorg) $4 cover K=2E Silem Mohammad reads and rhymes in Santa Cruz, where he is=20 currently Vibrating Insistent Professor of Brutish and Anglophobe=20 Literature at the Uniperversity=2E His 2000 Kenning chapbook "hovercraft"=20= has been reprinted eighty million times, and is now available in=20 microwaveable EZ-pour format=2E Mohammad will be reading from his=20 work-in-progress "Deer Head Nation" (though we all know, of course, that=20= "progress" is a retrograde liberal fantasy)=2E Trevor Calvert is a poet living in Oakland, where he co-edits "syllogism=2E= "=20 He has been published in 'key satch(el)," "in*tense," and "pink squid," an= d=20 has work forthcoming in "EM Literary" and "Barn (v=2E)=2E" His bio is not nearly=20 as witty as Kasey's=2E Both poets are even now in training, and promise to be in top form on=20 game day=2E Bring money for books and alcohol for all our woes=2E See you=20= then! Michael Cross "=2E=2E=2Ecorrect, at least by New Brutalism standards=2E=2E=2E" John Ashbery -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:24:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Goldman & Minnis at SPT, this Friday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic presents Friday, November 15, 2002 at 7:30 pm Judith Goldman & Chelsey Minnis Judith Goldman?s Vocoder appeared from New York?s Roof Books last year and has been honored as one of Small Press Traffic?s best books of 2001. "we are promiscuous with force, there are no rules." Goldman?s recent work appears online at How2. She has just completed a dissertation on 18th century British literature by women for Columbia University and her essay "Hannah=hannaH: Clairvoyance, Politics, and Ethics in the Work of Hannah Weiner," appeared in the differences Fall 2001 issue on postmodern feminist poetics. Chelsey Minnis?s Zirconia appeared from New York?s Fence Books last year as the winner of the first annual Alberta Prize and has made a splash on several literary fronts. Arielle Greenberg writes: "the themes present in Zirconia--beauty, cruelty, other/daughterhood--as well as some of the recurring images--wings, fur, pearls--not to mention the title itself, with its tawdry, dreamy sparkle, led me back to the days of Stevie Nicks, pegasus suncatchers and Seventeen magazine's prom issue. Minnis fearlessly mines this terrain for all its faux glamour and real heartbreak." All events are $5-10, sliding scale, unless otherwise noted. Our events are free to SPT members, and CCAC faculty, staff, and students. Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of Arts and Crafts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) ---------------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 - 8th Street San Francisco, California 94107 http://www.sptraffic.org 415-551-9278 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:19:08 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed < unevenness makes the world go 'round. > To this micronaut, the "'round" looks increasingly like a fractal party of the planets. Proportion is as proportion does: all exits are wrong exits. >From: Maria Damon >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips >Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:36:24 -0600 > >yes. unevenness makes the world go 'round. > >At 9:34 AM -0500 11/12/02, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>{ Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry >>{ for many years >> >>I love uneven poetry, the peaks and valleys of it. Hate the >>even stuff, reminds me of parking lots at megamalls. >> >>Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting >> nowhere, and that is a pleasure." >> --John Cage >> >>Halvard Johnson >>=============== >>email: halvard@earthlink.net >>website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > >-- _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:26:24 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: contact info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Can anyone provide contact info for Frankie Lingua? Please b/c. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:40:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Avery Burns Subject: address request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello All, Does anyone have an email address for Aram Saroyan? Please backchannel me. Thanks Avery E. D. Burns __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:43:15 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: poetry without words In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-6CF63967; boundary="=======166D66AD=======" --=======166D66AD======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-6CF63967; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.flyingpuppet.com 'in the lion's mouth' is explorative, musical, surprising, astounding, playful, humorous, and thoroughly enjoyable. mr clauss you are making poetry without words, works which inspire images, feelings and narratives in the end-user. So interesting and inviting in visual and tactile engagement that mental stimulation makes verbal narratives free flowing from those who experience the pieces.. congratulations brilliant komninos http://users.bigpond.net.au/mangolegs --=======166D66AD======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-6CF63967 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 15/10/02 --=======166D66AD=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:19:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Virginia Reassures Herself With The Arguments Against Bishop Berkeley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Parliamentary, my dear Bowering. I feel you should be addressed as "Sir George", henceforth. All kidding aside, I am thrilled for you. I had a pure, selfless moment. It iis as if your whole life had grown a fitting arrowhead, come to rest with the most satisfying Plop in a maple tree. May its sweet sap cover your life like a toffee-apple. As ever, Broms -----Original Message----- From: George Bowering To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Virginia Reassures Herself With The Arguments Against Bishop Berkeley >Hell with Virginia; > >Esse est percipi, and dont you forget it. >-- >George Bowering >In for the long haul. >Fax 604-266-9000 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:10:05 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: bowering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Congrats George! Maybe we'll see you out here on the other coast sometime! bests, kevin from the Toronto Globe and Mail- Irreverent Bowering named poet laureate By ERIN ANDERSSEN Tuesday, November 12, 2002 – Page A1 OTTAWA -- For their poet laureate, Canadians are getting a West Coast writer with an irreverent muse, an obsession with baseball and a distaste, his friends say, for all things pompous. The politicians about to welcome George Bowering as the new resident poet to Parliament Hill should be warned, say the people who know him: Most witty when his targets are the country's haughty types, the B.C. scribe is not an easy man to keep quiet when he has something to say. "He has very strong opinions," said Fraser Sutherland, a Toronto poet. "And if he doesn't manage to curb them, it should make for a very lively appointment." Mr. Bowering, 65, a two-time winner of Governor-General's awards with about 50 books to his name, was chosen from a confidential list of three candidates by the Speakers of the Senate and the House of Commons, after a process that began with 35 names sent in by writers associations, politicians and private citizens. His job description is vague: Among his tasks, he may write poems for use on state occasions and sponsor poetry readings, but he is not required to do so. He will have an office on Parliament Hill -- although he is not required to live in Ottawa -- and will be paid a yearly taxable stipend of $12,000. He will have a travel budget of $10,000. He holds the job, which will alternate between a French and an English writer, for two years. His title is parliamentary poet laureate. The country has never had an official poet laureate before. Mr. Bowering, who did not return calls yesterday, will likely define the new job. Here is a poet with a clever hand at parody, who knows his history, having written a quirky book on the personal lives of the country's prime ministers and "swashbuckling" tales of his province's roots. "The best thing about Canada," he once said, "is that it is not this. It is this and that." He dares to write on everything that strikes his fancy, believing, he has explained, that those who stick only to what they know never learn anything. And he believes true poets should be "bell-ringers." In an essay on writing, he once concluded, "The poet is the person waiting under the tree for the lightning to strike. Waiting with pen in hand." Though his new job may present a different kind of lightning strike, he has not held his tongue so far, particularly in assessing Canada's literary culture. A sampling: He once slammed the government in an interview for being "chintzy" in its cultural spending, while it "throws million of dollars at businessmen." In an interview with Canadian Content, he said that 94 per cent of new fiction is unworthy of reading, and the worthy stuff doesn't get read -- especially, in his view, by the academics who teach it. He has particular venom for the people granted "unearned power" who, he told The Globe and Mail in 1998, "have never taken life seriously and therefore do not read or appreciate or help serious writing." Most recently, Mr. Sutherland recalls, he entered into an on-line debate on ae plagiarism charge against this year's Man Booker Prize winner, Yann Martel. Mr. Bowering, Mr. Sutherland said, alone expressed the view that "it did not look good," sparking an immediate protest from others. His outspoken nature, even when his views may be unpopular, is what promises to make his term as parliamentary poet laureate "delightfully controversial." No one expects him to recite odes to the Queen. "He can find the humour in high occasions," chuckled Victoria-based poet Patrick Lane. But Mr. Bowering is not without depth, observed his old friend, William New, an English professor at the University of British Columbia, who shared an office with him in graduate school. "He is serious about things that are serious," Mr. New said. "I expect he will puncture those things that take themselves seriously but don't really matter." Born in the Okanagan Falls and educated on the West Coast, Mr. Bowering retired last year after almost three decades of teaching at Simon Fraser University. Aside from an obsession with baseball, he has previously acknowledged being a fan of professional wrestling. He won the Governor-General's award for poetry in 1969 and in 1980 for fiction. He is an "outstanding choice," said Senator Jerahmiel Grafstein, who introduced the private-member's bill that created the poet laureate. "Hopefully his words will inspire members of Parliament to be more literate. [And] poetry will occupy a more conspicuous public place." Sometimes in mid-April we fill our hot-tubs with Perrier water, we are so pacific, west coasting through spring, casting not a thought to our poor cousins in Toronto, slogging through dirty snow to their cute restaurants with nifty names. Casting not a thought but delivering an image if we can, posing wisely as the people who were foresighted enough to create a city with warm winters. Would anyone, they ask in gelid Ottawa, live on the edge out there except for the weather? This will make a good enough question for a gentle poem to pose. --from Van, Can by George Bowering. Unpublished, 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:13:46 -0800 Reply-To: solipsis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: solipsis Subject: my rabid religion grew [curlewingroanahydrousagerunderoundringallboatally] Comments: To: WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca, list@rhizome.org, edx , Eggvert8@aol.com Comments: cc: xtant@cstone.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TITLE: [sawinal-ka-tal-on-ti-pul-tsikul]* - - --- - --- -- -- --- --- - - - - -- -- - - = - -- -- --- - --- - -- - -- body-mate: amorphous mineral lapdog to spell me- close your mechanical irises leap through the cellophane cities of hu'erdtling men----> as in the = phat of chod dirtglyphs** which ride through the surfing songed obsidian the rustic headwings torn from its mantle a temporary cloth among the garden pons shapeless and loping reconfigure conjoined spiral cleavage=20 burden of plate------> 2 to tufa toofa lists draw----> lets file this = down to mammoth reindeer, their bellynets thronging with modular imps proboscidea louisianica, craniodrupacious capsulata nonesuch+plaits ruffled balls and bells: kneescorn the final flatus of = meaning=3Dlens you can reconstitute it, red skinned, girl-skirted, however in = variable---"" [in my tunnel i say {special antelope}] "which" (diagram of the whole = which lives) articulated plumes of steam speak from between its muscles the momentary girders between the kaleidoscopic behemoths powdered ramp stank with meat-wort and tank-feed (1985) high-school over transferred the genus Orcaella from the Delphinidae to the = Monodontidae if the pilot looks up from display streets lift along the milled plyings breathless baskets of face-slapping fish-tails vapour herald sidelong clog * " ( confusion )( when we came )( carrying the sign = ) " =20 from the mayan control-z exit ** remainpoemcombwound: ......... ......... S ......... ......... S ......... ......... S ......... ......... S ......... ......... S ......... ......... M ......... ......... M ......... ......... M ......... ......... M mo--->mj (actual--->non-actual) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:24:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Reading in San Francisco, Tuesday, 11/19 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friends and Students of Diane Di Prima Poetry Reading Series #5 Tuesday, November 19 7.30pm free Bird & Beckett Books and Records 2788 Diamond Street (at Chenery), San Francisco (Glen Park BART) 415.586.3733 Joan Marie Wood’s poetry has been published in Rag Mag, The Lucid Stone, and other literary magazines. She leads writing workshops in north Oakland (Temescal Writers). She will read from a nearly completed book of poetry, Her Voice is Blackberries. Jo Kaufman is San Francisco based writer, teacher and mother of two (suddenly surly) adolescent children. She received her Master of Fine Arts in Creative Writing from USF and her work has appeared in the Santa Clara Review, the Patterson Literary Review, along with various small local presses. She is currently working on book-length work of creative non-fiction. David Hadbawnik is a poet and performer who has published work in Skanky Possum, -Vert, Cauldron & Net, Electronic Poetry Review, Jacket, among others. He has collaborated with several movement, performance, and music-based artists, and also publishes Habenicht Press. Introducing the poets is Diane di Prima, the author of 34 books of poetry and prose, which have been translated into twenty languages. Born in New York in the 1930s, she currently lives in San Francisco, where she works as a writer and teacher. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:38:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Topp, Kirby, Belz at RED ROOM next Friday MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Those of you in NYC -- please come hear me read with my friends Mike and Matt -- http://meaningless.com/redroom/ Note, an RSVP is necessary! There are only 60 seats in this theater. As if speeding on winged feet, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:43:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My warmest and most meaningful congratulations, George. We can say we knew you when. In for the long haul, Aaron p.s. I have enjoyed "Poems 1961-92" over the past 12 months. Best book I found on my last trip to Ottawa. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:02:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed reading at Umass Amherst: Wednesday, in Bartlett Hall's lobby, there will be a marathon reading of Frank Stanford's poem, "The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You." It will go from 8:00 a.m. to approximately midnight. This 16,000-line epic poem takes place during the Civil Rights era. Its hero, a 12-year-old clairvoyant, goes on a tragi-comic romp through the rural South. The reading will feature volunteers from the undergraduate English Program, the MFA Program, and English Department Faculty. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:06:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "The Father of Pakistan" Bollywood’s reply to "Rambo," released simultaneously with Ashutosh Gowariker's "Lagaan," "Gadar: Ek Prem Katha," was shot amid protest: mobs stoned filming in Amritsar; earlier, Shia Muslims Threatened self-immolation over music-and-dance scenes planned for Lucknow's labyrinthine Asifi Imambara. Once released, Anil Sharma’s partition-era epic sparked Muslim riots in Bhopal, New Delhi, Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Lucknow and Mumbai, even as largely Sikh and Hindu Audiences cheered on Tara Singh (Sunny Deol), punching his way through Pakistan to retrieve Saqeena (Ameesha Patel), whom he'd saved from mobs of rioting Sikhs in the film's first forty-five minutes. Plot-wise, it's boy meets girl meets class and religious divide with abrupt patriarchal "conversion" Suspended until the last few of the film's 190 minutes, when Saqeena's father (Amrish Puri), wealthy Ex-Amritsar Muslim, now Mayor of Lahore, swoops down in private helicopter wielding firearms, accidentally Nicking beloved daughter before losing control & crashing to prompt beating by son-in-law Singh. In an interview, Patel responded to charges of Pak-bashing: "I received calls from Lahore and Karachi, telling me how much they loved the film there ... how can there be anything Anti-Islamic about the movie? ... Tomorrow if I fell for a Muslim, I would marry him. Love is the essence of any religion." Director Anil Sharma answered similar accusations: "I Think you're not reading my title carefully: It is "Gadar: Ek Prem Katha" (in English, "Revolt: A Love Story"). I'm showing that one should not repeat the mistakes of the past. Love is supreme." Historically, partition has been regarded by artists as semi- taboo: poets, novelists and filmmakers largely Avoid the subject. In fifty years, only a handful of literary works, such as Bapsi Sidhwa's "Cracking India" (which inspired Deepa Mehta's "Earth"), have addressed the partition and its aftermath. Hindi film, likewise, offers a dearth of partition-related features-- Kamal Hasaan's "Hey Ram!" for Instance, the aforementioned "Earth," Dr. Chandra Prakash Dwivedi’s forthcoming "Pinjar" ... but Not much else. Controversy can kill a project. Deepa Mehta's "Water" was to be a fictionalized account of Disobedient landlord who rents out top floor of building left in will to shelter widows-- Unbeknownst to tourists staying in the renovated guestrooms above, there are women beneath them, Starving. The film was to be shot on location, in the city of Varnasi, on the Ganges, The site of many real-life "widow houses." Before production began, some 2,000 people stormed the sets And after burning them, threw their remains into the holy river. Mehta's life was threatened, followed by News of protesters burning effigies of the director. "Breaking up the sets was far too mild an act: the People involved with the film should have been beaten black and blue," said the head of the KSRSS, A political party formed the night before to specifically target Mehta. "The west refuses to ac- Knowledge our achievements in any sphere," he continued. "[The west] is only interested In our snake charmers and child brides. And people like Deepa Mehta pander to them." Still, Mehta persisted, and the local government allowed filming to continue as rumored protests Topped 10,000, but after two takes of the film's first scene, government authorities Arrived on the set and ordered Mehta to cease. A protester had swallowed poison, then Nose-dived into the Ganges, a rock tied around his waist. The film was never completed. Faiz Kahn, reviewing "Gadar" on brother Omar’s Lahore-based English-language Hot Spot Online, calls Anil Sharma's epic a "revenge drama," claiming Pakistanis will find it "repugnant." But he elaborates: "We ourselves are responsible for turning the Indians into the most hated And heinous of villains in many of our films," noting that "Gadar"'s plot "sounds like A reverse of recent Lollywood smash "Tere Pyar Mein," referred to in another review as "as vile a piece of Propaganda as the Bollywood films it attempts to emulate." Fifty-five years have passed since Hindustan was quit by the British and partitioned, displacing more than ten million, mostly Punjabi, And resulting in a quarter million deaths--to say nothing of the thousands raped, mutilated, and In many cases forced to convert religion--a fate elsewhere described as "worse than death." -------------------- An acrostic poem. The first letter in each line going down reads "Beta baap se nikalta ha Hindustan Pakistan ka baap hai," a line spoken by Sunny Deol in Anil Sharma's "Gadar." (In English: "The son is the creation of the father. India is the father of Pakistan.") _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:33:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: FILM DEMO READING - Alan Sondheim - R. B. Memorial Cinema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Robert Beck Memorial Cinema Presents 19 November 2002 9:00 pm ALAN SONDHEIM Curated by Marianne Shaneen RBMC presents new digital video, live reading, laptop demo and other work from Alan Sondheim, multifarious maverick of video, film, CD-ROM, performance, sound, text, cyberculture and hypermedia. His books include the anthology "Being on Line: Net Subjectivity" (Lusitania, 1996), "Disorders of the Real" (Station Hill, 1988), and ".echo" (alt-X digital arts, 2001). For the past several years, he has been working on an "Internet Text," a continuous meditation on philosophy, psychology, language, body, sexuality, and virtuality. "worlds, tribly" - 35 minute digital video, Alan Sondheim and Azure Carter the chant of trilby-svengali... 85 worlds intersecting: the torus cutting across...the seven watching men, the doubled doubled seven watching men...the swollen mold and its emission...the double framing window... ** -A.S. For more info about the work of Alan Sondheim be sure to check out these urls! http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ RBMC is a laboratory for the auto-didact, a genuine Temporary Autonomous Zone for cine-mavericks and metaphysicians, and a realm to disorder and regain the senses. For more than 4 years, the Robert Beck Memorial Cinema has illuminated the snowy-white screen of the Collective Unconscious of New York.... the enigmatic Mr. Robert Beck, soldier of the 1st World War, lost his senses in battle and later, recovering in a sanatorium, regained them while watching a film! Bradley Eros & Brian Frye ...the extraordinary Robert Beck Memorial Cinema... captures some of the improvisational feeling of earlier avant-garde film presentations, also accommodating films and related events that require unusual projection set-ups...probably my favorite place anywhere to see films -Fred Camper DIRECTIONS: RBMC is at the COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUS 145 Ludlow St., NYC between Stanton and Rivington 1.5 blocks south of Houston St. SUBWAY: F train 2nd Avenue stop, walk east on south side of Houston past Eldridge (you will see the Sunshine Cinema Movie Theater on the corner of Eldridge and Houston), Allen, and Orchard streets, and turn right (south) on Ludlow. The Collective Unconscious RBMC is on Ludlow between Stanton and Rivington, on the West side of the street. FROM WILLIAMSBURG BRIDGE: Once off the bridge take a slight Right onto DELANCEY ST., turn Right onto ALLEN St., turn Right onto STANTON St., and turn RIGHT onto LUDLOW St. FROM MANHATTAN BRIDGE: Off Manhattan Bridge, turn Right onto CANAL St., turn LEFT onto ALLEN ST., turn RIGHT onto STANTON ST., then turn RIGHT onto LUDLOW ST. **worlds, tribly - 35 minute digital video - 85 worlds intersecting: the torus cutting across, the sparrow flitting from one to the other, the golden droplets swarming among them, the seven watching men, the doubled doubled seven watching men, the woman from the london gaiete shuddering, the second woman adding and removing dressing and corset, the man and woman swirling and watching across, the woman with the cross evolving and splitting and shuddering outward, the white stars in the blue-black sky, the yellow stars in the blue-black sky, the great fabric of being and the construct of the helices, the mouths wide open, eyes wide open, the look of astonishment and the gaze, the swollen mold and its emission, the bearded man, the torus bending and shuddering, the torus taking on the colors and patterns, the sparrow flitting, the inner and outer spaces, the backdrop spaces, the seven watching men ... the dark break the double framing window, the window embossing, the small victorian blouse, the body staring and disappearing, the serene landscape, body through the landscape, the quietening sounds, the fading out ... */ the chant of trilby-svengali. i am her trilby to her svengali and she is my trilby to my svengali. i trilby make perfect fuck, sharing the dream of svengali and trilby: trilby to svengali's edison, dolly shot in cinerama, her trilby to her svengali, my trilby to my svengali. she nobody. svengali and trilby make that trilby. that into into night night window from folding. against of folding jacket. trilby, my my is singing woman. i would be that woman that trilby. trilby, she is my woman, she is singing within the woman. hair hair duplicate face. body would trilby. be into that night trilby. my trilby, is my singing singing against without there without singing. /* === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:40:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: .! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII .! .homosexual! .magick.sex! .politics.homosexuality! .politics.sex! .sex! .sex.NOT! .sex.bestiality! .sex.bondage! -,-,,-,,-,-,-,-,,,,-,-,-,-,,,,,- .sex.bondage.particle.physics! .sex.boredom! .sex.fetish.feet! .sex.fetish.hair! .sex.homosexual! .sex.masturbation! .sex.motss! -,,,-,-,-,,-,-,-,,,,,,, .sex.movies! .sex.pictures! .sex.pictures.d! .sex.pictures.female! .sex.pictures.male! .sex.sounds! .sex.stories! .sex.stories.d! .sex.wanted! .sex.wizards! .sexual.abuse.recovery! .sexual.abuse.recovery.d! .sexy.bald.captains! .sex.fetish.orientals! .sex.voyeurism! .sex.spanking! .sex.exhibitionism! - .sex.bestiality.barney! .sex.bestiality.hamster.duct-tape! .sex.fetish.watersports! -,,,,-,,,-, .sex.watersports! .sex.fetish.diapers! .sex.fetish.fashion! .sex.services! .sex.strip-clubs! .sex.intergen! .sex.femdom! .sex.telephone! .sex.fat! .sex.fetish.startrek! .sex.magazines! .sex.erotica.marketplace! .tv.tiny-toon.sex! .sex.nasal-hair! .sex.breast! -,-,,-,-,,-,,-,-, .sex.pedophilia! - .sex.fetish.watersports! - .sex.bondage! - .sex.pictures! - .sex.enemas! - .sex.anal! - .sex.bears! - .sex.voyeurism! .sex.necrophilia! - .sexuality.spanking! - === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:15:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Or even a poet with even a career. Mairead >>> maxw28@YAHOO.COM 11/12/02 11:33 AM >>> I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a poet with an "even" career... Max Winter --- Mairead Byrne wrote: > This reminds me both of Nietzsche's limping poet and Anne Bradstreet's > stumbling brat-book. I'm with them. > Mairead > > >>> damon001@UMN.EDU 11/12/02 10:43 AM >>> > yes. unevenness makes the world go 'round. > > At 9:34 AM -0500 11/12/02, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >{ Basically, Palattella said that Rexroth wrote uneven poetry > >{ for many years > > > >I love uneven poetry, the peaks and valleys of it. Hate the > >even stuff, reminds me of parking lots at megamalls. > > > >Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting > > nowhere, and that is a pleasure." > > --John Cage > > > >Halvard Johnson > >=============== > >email: halvard@earthlink.net > >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > > -- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:07:30 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: No Subject MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary, Fascinating stuff. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:10:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: poetry for inmates Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "The Green Anarchy article is not Kaczynski's first published piece from prison, but it is the longest and the one most similar to his 1995 manifesto. In 1999, OFF! Magazine, produced by students at the State University of New York at Binghamton, published a 'parable' by Kaczynski entitled 'Ship of Fools'..." http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7705-2002Jul26?language=printer http://www.panix.com/~clays/Una/ http://www.greenanarchy.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:51:03 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: desert: a categorial move in practice motion Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable desert: a categorial move in practice motion shifted all the nomads the danger of=20 endangered cavaliers: the crucial extract=20 called in the principals Torch. Scorch on the cloth burnt emits outrigged succed a neum drip=20 ping=20 on the back &or back of Dakota. Watch. Smooth with a pandect? That was a time before=20 it arose supposed it's lineage diffused=20 and called it=20 a penduline. Cast. Tense censored explicable spun=20 wound=20 torqued=20 spliced thrust re designs the one less expiate intrinsic pursues us.=20 Kid napped. and Louis Stevenson notes. Up and=20 down pittos porum.=20 like-N's for nothing. Stills:=20 capture the=20 hollow=20 wood smalt. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 06:03:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: the various brothers are watching In-Reply-To: <3DD11581.E400247C@tufts.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was reported that Admiral John M. Poindexter, who was convicted in the Iran-Contra affair in 1990 but later acquitted on a technicality, joined the Bush Administration earlier this year as head of the Office of Information Awareness at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. Poindexter is in charge of a new system called Total Information Awareness, which would permit the military to spy on the civilian population of the United States without search warrants by scanning personal information such as email, credit-card statements, banking and medical records, and travel documents for patterns that suggest criminal or terrorist activities. Deployment of the surveillance technology would require new legislation, since the military traditionally has not been allowed to spy on ordinary American citizens. "This could be the perfect storm for civil liberties in America," said Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, "The vehicle is the Homeland Security Act, the technology is Darpa, and the agency is the FBI. The outcome is a system of national surveillance of the American public." (as read in HARPER'S WEEKLY Newsletter, November 12, 2002) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Harper's Magazine http://www.harpers.org ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 06:24:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Philly Reading In-Reply-To: <3DD11581.E400247C@tufts.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those in the Philadelphia area: Thursday, 14 November, 8 pm: POETRY READING Pierre Joris Author of, among others, *Poasis: Selected Poems 1986-1999*, * and the just published: *4x1: Tzara, Rilke, Duprey & Tengour translated by Joris* (Inconundrum Press) and translator of Celan, Picasso, Blanchot, Kerouac and Abdelwahab Meddeb, co-editor with Jerome Rothenberg of the two-volume *Poems for the Millennium* anthology, will read at Temple Writers Series Temple University Graduate Creative Writing Program Temple University Center City, 1515 Market. ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:25:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wednesday as in today? date? looks fun, but if it's today i canna make it At 9:02 PM -0500 11/12/02, noah eli gordon wrote: >reading at Umass Amherst: > > > >Wednesday, in Bartlett Hall's lobby, there will be a marathon reading of >Frank Stanford's poem, "The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love >You." It will go from 8:00 a.m. to approximately midnight. This >16,000-line epic poem takes place during the Civil Rights era. Its >hero, a 12-year-old clairvoyant, goes on a tragi-comic romp through the >rural South. The reading will feature volunteers from the undergraduate >English Program, the MFA Program, and English Department Faculty. > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, there are/were some legendary ones. But I hear ya. Hal "What does a poet need an unlisted number for?" --George Costanza Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { Or even a poet with even a career. { Mairead { { >>> maxw28@YAHOO.COM 11/12/02 11:33 AM >>> { I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a poet with an "even" { career... { { Max Winter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:45:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: kurt cobain's journals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed i was reading jpeg scans of Kurt Cobain's journals the other night in _The Observer_ and noticed that Cobain cut out some lines from a poem by Alicia Ostriker, pasting them just above a self-portrait and a draft of some of his lyrics for "Smells Like Teen Spirit" http://www.observer.co.uk/kurtcobain/image/0,12534,820344,00.html also buy my book http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:09:01 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like the abstractions and references to mathematics in Rexroth's longish poems. I don't much like the late Asian Rexroth. But I have those two paperback volumes "The shroter poems of rexroth" and "The Longer Poems of Rexroth" and they are fun to peruse. He has surprising metaphors based on scientific objecs, current (then) events, modern objects, absurd situations and so forth, which is unusual and fun to read. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips > Well, there are/were some legendary ones. But > I hear ya. > > Hal "What does a poet need an unlisted > number for?" > --George Costanza > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > { Or even a poet with even a career. > { Mairead > { > { >>> maxw28@YAHOO.COM 11/12/02 11:33 AM >>> > { I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a poet with an "even" > { career... > { > { Max Winter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:31:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Berry's Map Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hare and mare are the entire sea & when the entire sea pleads for his life hare and mare are English speaking ___________________________ a Portuguese capacity has the capacity for being Portuguese, at least ___________________________ modesty, obviously, will end with a curtain ___________________________ the Second Act climbs onto the City Clerk ___________________________ the Theatre ought not to be afraid to show her legs ___________________________ am I to conclude the depths are only for simple things? ___________________________ she married your praises ___________________________ the orchestra making the main square in his hair ___________________________ How Nature Can Close Ranks! Snip! Snap! ___________________________ the atrocious are putting on a show just for you! - even if a million miles away & they don't care to know your name! when you're moral, though, you are only entertaining yourself ___________________________ my suggestion is licensed to do what you're so eager for ___________________________ the weather, my dear friend, is trying to hand us a line ___________________________ the newborn paws in the heat of my violin case ___________________________ how do you want the staircase to be rebuilt? ___________________________ have my people feel like sleeping ___________________________ cooks are less fragile ink bottles ___________________________ we need a horse to make a fire with ___________________________ one's coffin again recurring a sick man has gratuitous unity ___________________________ The Crystal Tower In New York ___________________________ coteries exclude because they have trust issues ___________________________ the awful thing tells me a star is called a mountain ___________________________ repugnant farmhands live in your apartment ___________________________ a mysterious snowing (marvelous?) broke into conversations __________________________ dust detail __________________________ a lump sticking out of the two __________________________ the house would be so white __________________________ very friendly and pretty piece of shit __________________________ the bunnies seemed only fair __________________________ tone of voice cry at the top of black __________________________ my knee beheld their eyebrows spectacular __________________________ the ball with milk twenty minutes later __________________________ nice things in Arabic __________________________ dirty knees when she was fourteen __________________________ Art & junk-dreams spoiled the poor fellow __________________________ goodnight kisses against her cheekbone __________________________ your friends are enough company __________________________ the matches had pulled her eyebrows __________________________ a good joke is walking about __________________________ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Snare party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sunday, November 17th , the Zinc bar presents: THE SNARE THREE MAGAZINE RELEASE PARTY with your host Drew Gardner featuring readings and music from: Allison Cobb Mitch Highfill Kim Lyons Jen Robinson Marianne Shaneen Edwin Torres Rodrigo Toscano plus special guests from previous issues ------------------------------------ Snare 3 features new work from: Marianne Shaneen Bill Luoma Mitch Highfill Elizabeth Willis Rod Smith Todd Baron Rodrigo Toscano Bob Harrison Jen Robinson Edwin Torres Kim Lyons Allison Cobb Snare Magazine is edited by Drew Gardner Zinc Bar is located at 90 W Houston st. @ Laguardia down the stairs, 6:45pm (attn: Geo Bowering: New York City) -- To buy a copy: $6 to Drew Gardner PO Box 2055, NY, NY, 10009 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:39:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable THE COMING WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT: *** WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 13 [8:00pm] KAYA PRESS READING: JOSEY FOO, SESSHU FOSTER AND ED LIN FRIDAY NOVEMBER 15 [10:30pm] LYCAON PICTUS AND JAMES WALSH MONDAY NOVEMBER 18 [8:00pm] KARI EDWARDS AND LILY MAZZARELLA WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 20 [8:00pm] NINA ZIVANCEVIC AND SIMON PETTET http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 15 [8:00pm] KAYA PRESS READING: JOSEY FOO, SESSHU FOSTER AND ED LIN Josey Foo's first book of prose and poems, Endou, was published in 1996, an= d portions of it were included by Jamaica Kincaid in Best American Essays 1995. Inspired by "Arrival," Tomie Arai's 1996 mixed-media installation at the Lower East Side Printshop in New York City, Tomie's Chair, her most recent title just out from Kaya Press, is an allegory of outward and inward movement. Foo won the Eve of St. Agnes Award in Poetry in 1995 and is a recipient of 2001 NEA and Pennsylvania Council for the Arts Literature Fellowships. Kaya Press has just published Sesshu Foster's glitteringly surreal first novel, Zenzontli, the Keeper of the House of Darkness. Lawson Fusao Inada applauds: "Sesshu Foster startles you, surprises you, even shocks you; his writing sparkles with new insights and images; at the same time, he engages you in the context of continuing history and you realize you're in what could be familiar territory: 'Ah, yes =8B how it is!'" Foster's City Terrace Field Manual (1996) was a finalist for the PEN Center West Poetry Award and the Passaic County Poetry Prize, and Invocation L.A.: Multicultural Urban Poetry, which he coedited, won a 1990 American Book Award. Angry Days, his first collection of poetry, was published in 1987. Ed Lin's title Waylaid from Kaya is the story of a Chinese American boy who struggles to grow up in the grip of an overcharged sexual environment. It i= s a story told with a Gen-X-style bleak humor that doesn't pander to conventional notions of immigrant narrative, a switchblade in the gut to stories of over-achievement and success in America that ignore the human cost. Ed Lin currently lives in New York, where he is a member of the Asian American performance troupe Peeling the Banana. FRIDAY NOVEMBER 15 [10:30pm] LYCAON PICTUS AND JAMES WALSH Lycaon Pictus features the new dynamic duo of musicians Aaron Diskin and John Morton. A two man band that "[has] a sampler that we run beats off of...[John] plays bass guitar on some songs and keyboard on others. [Aaron] plays keyboard and sings. We play weird little Avant-Pop songs. We're not dance music, and we're not rock n roll. We're almost like poetry or folk accompanied by electronic instruments or something. We will be playing slow= , soothing songs." James Walsh's video art projections have been exhibited at the Brewster Project, in the Tugboat Film & Video Series at Socrates Sculpture Park, and in the Bronco 89 Video Series. He lives in Brooklyn. [Generation Time and DJ Brett Crenshaw (originally scheduled to appear with Lycaon Pictus) will not be in attendance. However, there will still be a reception afterwards.] MONDAY NOVEMBER 18 [8:00pm] KARI EDWARDS AND LILY MAZZARELLA kari edwards is a poet, artist and gender activist, winner of New Langton Arts' Bay Area Award in Literature (2002), author of a day in the life of p= . (Subpress, 2002), a diary of lies (Belladonna Books, 2002), Electric Spandex: Anthology of Writing the Queer Text (Pyriform Press, 2002), and post/(pink) (Scarlet Press, 2001). Her work has been exhibited throughout the United States, including the Denver Art Museum, New Orleans Contemporar= y Art Museum, University of California at San Diego, and University of Massachusetts Amherst. edwards=B9 work can also be found in Blood and Tears (2000), an anthology on Matthew Shepard (Painted Leaf Press), Bombay Gin, Aufgabe, In Posse, Mirage, and The International Journal of Sexuality and Gender Studies. Lily Mazzarella holds a degree in English from Wesleyan University, and is = a recent graduate of the Northeast School of Botanical Medicine. She is one o= f the founding editors of Fort Necessity, a purse-sized volume of fabulous writings published annually. WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 20 [8:00pm] NINA ZIVANCEVIC AND SIMON PETTET Poet, essayist, fiction writer, art critic, and a contributing editor to NY Arts from Paris, Nina Zivancevic is the author of nine books of poetry published in Serbian and in English. Cool Grove Press recently published Death of New York City: Selected Poems. She also has three books of short stories published in Paris, New York and Belgrade: Recherche Philippe Sollers (Noel Bladin, 1992), Inside and Out of Byzantium (Semiotexte, 1994)= , and Vreme Knjige (Vizantijske Price, 1995). She is the recipient of three poetry awards and has edited and been included in numerous anthologies of contemporary world poetry. Simon Pettet is the author of a number of books including the essential Selected Poems (Talisman) and, most recently, Abundant Treasures, a poet-painter collaboration with artist Duncan Hannah (Granary Books). A bilingual collection, Come Va (Porto dei Santi), will be published in Italy with accompanying illustrations by Gianni Curelli and an introduction by Robert Creeley. He has collaborated with the photographer/filmmaker Rudy Burckhardt on two titles: Conversations About Everything (Vehicle Editions, 1988) and Talking Pictures (Zoland Books, 1995), and also compiled, edited and introduced The Selected Art Writings of James Schuyler for Black Sparro= w Press (now available from Godine). He was a co-founder of the much-missed Committee For International Poetry and is presently the Film Archivist for the Parapsychology Foundation. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:31:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: Atlanta Poets Group Website MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain you are invited visit the APG website www.atlantapoetsgroup.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:03:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Lit City Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lit City presents Norma Cole and Lisa Jarnot Reading and book signing: Friday, November 15, 7:30 pm Zeitgeist Multidisciplinary Arts Center 1724 Oretha Castle Haley Blvd. New Orleans, Louisiana Admission: $3. Followed by reception and booksigning. Workshops: Saturday, November 16 10:00 - 11:30 (Norma Cole) 12:30 - 2:00 (Lisa Jarnot) New Orleans Center for Creative Arts, 2800 Chartres. $10. For more information about the reading and/or workshop registration, call (504) 861-8832 or email Norma Cole Norma Cole is a poet, painter and translator. Her most recent poetry publication is Spinoza in Her Youth (Omnidawn Press). SCOUT, a text/image work, is forthcoming from Krupskaya Editions in CD-ROM format. Among her poetry books are MARS, MOIRA and Contrafact. Current translation work includes Danielle Collobert's Journals, Anne Portugal's Nude and Crosscut Universe: Writing on Writing from France. Cole has been the recipient of a Wallace Alexander Gerbode Foundation Award, Gertrude Stein Awards, as well as awards from The Fund for Poetry. "Poetics of Vertigo," Cole's George Oppen Memorial Lecture won the Robert D. Richardson Non-Fiction Award. She teaches at San Francisco State University, the University of San Francisco and is on the faculty of the MFA program at Otis College of Art and Design in Los Angeles. A Canadian by birth, Cole migrated via France to San Francisco where she has lived since 1977. Lisa Jarnot Lisa Jarnot is the author of Some Other Kind of Mission (Burning Deck Press, 1996) and Ring of Fire (Zoland Books, 2000). She lives in Brooklyn, NY and teaches at Long Island University and New York University. She is currently completing a novel as well as a biography of the poet Robert Duncan. In the spring of 2003, she will be performing a stage work called "My Terrorist Notebook" in collaboration with the New York City based band Earthdriver and filmmaker Jennifer Reeves. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:07:18 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: [imitationpoetics] Fwd: the various brothers are watching In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone very close to me works directly under Poindexter ("John") in that organization. No shit. It's very VERY real. I hear all sorts of "stories" coming from that direction and have heard them for many many years. And some of you think I'm just paranoid. Heh. Say "Hi! It's me!" Oh, and by the way, not onld do they "have the ability," um, they're already doing it. I could actually give you specific examples...but don't kid yourself: this conversation is being watched. They aren't the sort of people I exactly want to fuck with. -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel Gudding [mailto:gmguddi@ilstu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:46 AM To: ImitaPo Memebers Subject: [imitationpoetics] Fwd: the various brothers are watching Imitation Poetics ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 06:03:11 -0500 >From: Pierre Joris >Subject: the various brothers are watching >Sender: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Reply-to: UB Poetics discussion group >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) > >It was reported that Admiral John M. Poindexter, who was convicted in >the >Iran-Contra affair in 1990 but later acquitted on a technicality, joined >the Bush Administration earlier this year as head of the Office of >Information Awareness at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. >Poindexter is in charge of a new system called Total Information >Awareness, which would permit the military to spy on the civilian >population of the United States without search warrants by scanning >personal information such as email, credit-card statements, banking and >medical records, and travel documents for patterns that suggest criminal >or terrorist activities. Deployment of the surveillance technology would >require new legislation, since the military traditionally has not been >allowed to spy on ordinary American citizens. "This could be the perfect >storm for civil liberties in America," said Marc Rotenberg, director of >the Electronic Privacy Information Center, "The vehicle is the Homeland >Security Act, the technology is Darpa, and the agency is the FBI. The >outcome is a system of national surveillance of the American public." > >(as read in HARPER'S WEEKLY Newsletter, November 12, 2002) > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >* > >Harper's Magazine >http://www.harpers.org > > >___________________________________________________________ >Pierre Joris >6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. >Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. >h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. >c: 518 225 7123 >o: 518 442 40 >85 -- >Thomas Bernhard >email: joris@albany.edu >http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ >____________________________________________________________ Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html --- You are currently subscribed to imitationpoetics as: patrick@proximate.org List Info: http://listserv.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=ImitationPoetics ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:11:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan E Minton Subject: email address for Rachel Zucker? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Does anyone have an email address or other contact info for Rachel Zucker? Backchannel please. Thanks! Jonathan Minton ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 03:12:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have contact info. for God? B/c ok. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:12:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: PINDELDYBOZ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've joined the team at PINDELDYBOZ as their poetry editor. I urge you to check out copies of PINDELDYBOZ at your local bookstore or go to pindeldyboz.com. I'll be looking for submissions to an all poetry issue of PINDELDYBOZ and also to be adding poems to their site on a more regular basis. Please send to jim@pindeldyboz.com. --Jim Behrle _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:17:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Request In-Reply-To: <000101c28bce$c91f7100$4814d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit which one? On Thursday, November 14, 2002, at 05:12 AM, jesse glass wrote: > Does anyone have contact info. for God? B/c ok. Jess > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:24:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed from GOODBYE PARTY FOR SEX * must it be traversed again over a green ocean or past scenes of muted pathos that cut ribbons to a wing honoring our most unhappy creatures O Anna you are being called vines climbing up to windows alit in undiscoverable splendors knives that might sever the cord instead remain unwashed sweaty in the sink tonight ** bring her to me again, please over a green ocean or past reckless locations and furious air damned if you continue to excite O Anna you are being called from heights perilous for us sweaty in the sink tonight knives that might sever the cord yes to every word, yes, yes bring her to me again, please ripped away from dreamlessness *** alit in undiscoverable splendors from heights perilous to for us reckless locations and furious air inform choices to descend again edens we are waiting to leave damned if you continue to excite must it be traversed again Anna, you are being called never to be held or tasted pure amid constant tension even in the falling light **** sweaty in the sink tonight honoring our most unhappy creatures inform choices to descend again never to be held or tasted yes to every word, yes, yes under pretense of belonging pure amid constant tension Anna, you are being called in every conceivable language damned if you continue to excite say goodbye to sex at parties ***** must it be traversed again cut the ribbons to a wing cluttered with unappeasable voices left to fend off unhappy creatures instead remain unwashed never to be held or tasted toward ruthless dreamlessness over a green ocean, please cut the ribbons to a wing know for its furious air Anna you are being called _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:33:12 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Nostra damus of the weather Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nostra damus of the weather Open mouth, wet tongue=20 catches the rain=20 which is actually stars=20 tactile.visual.and=20 watching the tree. always catches the hare dry wind in February wet in November somehow a tuft of angel hair=20 with golden drops=20 extraordinary. Sums it up as though it always happens something about=20 a night train to Brooklyn and a Russian who called Streetcar:=20 Tramway to Station Longing=20 finish the first story access.and the access to sensibility. access the other.an other.and a pause. a hesitation. a wicked impression of=20 and it's always either=20 William Shakespeare=20 and or Prester John.=20 Mata Hari hardly=20 gets a look in. Always.=20 Never. Tough.=20 the clothes in the Godfather=20 were much better.=20 Pinstripes! Gangstas!=20 Show a little leg and a Beretta.=20 Show it.=20 The amorous garlands of spaghetti, Son.=20 The road to Monte Carlo.. a dry wind in February. jasmine.a wet wind in November. the weather is fine. the weather is splendid a tuft of angel hair. something about night train=20 in Brooklyn. The gold drops are=20 tears. Gold drops of oil. Like stars. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:50:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG: Stacy Doris and Timothy Liu read Saturday November 16; Liu workshop Friday November 15 Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit REMINDER POG presents poets Timothy Liu and Stacy Doris Saturday, November 16, 7pm Dinnerware Gallery, 135 East Congress Admission: $5; Students $3 Timothy Liu will also lead a free workshop on Friday afternoon, November 15, from 3-5, at BIBLIO, 222 E Congress (624-8222); you can bring a poem or two if you like, but that's certainly not required. Timothy Liu (Liu Ti Mo) was born in 1965 in San Jose, California, to parents from the Chinese mainland. He studied at Brigham Young University, the University of Houston, and the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. He is the author of Say Goodnight (Copper Canyon Press, 1998), which was a finalist for the Lambda Literary Award; Burnt Offerings (1995); and Vox Angelica (1992), which won the Poetry Society of America’s Norma Farber First Book Award. He has also edited Word of Mouth: An Anthology of Gay American Poetry (Talisman House, 2000). His poems have been included in more than twenty anthologies and have appeared in such magazines and journals as Antioch Review, Denver Quarterly, Grand Street, Chelsea, Kenyon Review, New England Review, Paris Review, Ploughshares, Poetry, and TriQuarterly. He teaches at William Paterson University and lives in Hoboken, New Jersey. for more on Timothy Liu: http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=115 http://www.poetrymagazine.com/archives/1999/sept99/interview.htm http://www.poetrymagazine.com/archives/1999/sept99/liu.htm http://euphrates.wpunj.edu/faculty/liut/ Stacy Doris’ Kildare (Roof, 1995) makes poetry from electronic entertainments. Her Mop Factory Incident (Women’s Studio Workshop, 1996), designed and fabricated by artist Melissa Smedley, is a multi-lingual play-poem-comic-book on paper. She is also the author of La vie de Chester Steven Wiener écrite par sa femme (P.O.L., 1998), a biography of the world’s most perfect man, written in French. She has co-edited two journal anthologies of recent French poetry: Violence of the White Page (1991, Tyuonyi 9/10) with Emmanuel Hocquard, and 21 New (to America) French Poets (1997, Raddle Moon 16) with Norma Cole. She has been a Teaching-Writing Fellow at the University of Iowa Writers’ Workshop, and the recipient of a Fund for Poetry Award. Her latest book of poems, Paramour, was published by Krupskaya Press in 2000. Conference is forthcoming from Potes and Poets Press. She teaches poetry at San Francisco State University. for more on Stacy Doris: http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?prmID=719 http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext/poetry/doris/ http://www.krupskayabooks.com/doris.html http://home.jps.net/~nada/paramour.htm http://www.durationpress.com/authors/doris/conference.htm POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following POG donors: Patrons Roberta Howard and Austin Publicover; Sponsors Barbara Allen, Chax Press, and Stefanie Marlis. for further information contact POG: 296-6416 pog@gopog.org or visit us on the web at www.gopog.org mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:53:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Timothy Liu's Friday POG workshop Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle of the larger announcement I just sent out: Timothy Liu will lead a free workshop on Friday afternoon, November 15, from 3-5, at BIBLIO, 222 E Congress (624-8222); you can bring a poem or two if you like, but that's certainly not required. the workshop is sponsored by POG, the Arizona Quarterly, and the Tucson Poetry Festival. (you don't need to sign up in order to attend--you can just show up. but if you are planning to attend, it would be helpful if you'd drop me a brief email at one of the addresses below) Tenney Nathanson for POG mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:10:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Nov 21 Adopt a Book at CCAC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit & while you're there, check out the Small Press Traffic Archive... Please join us for CCAC's seventh ADOPT-A-Book Thursday, November 21, 2002, 5-8 pm Simpson Library CCAC San Francisco campus 1111 Eighth Street Refreshments will be served For more information, call Michael Lordi at 415.703.9574 Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 - 8th Street San Francisco, California 94107 http://www.sptraffic.org 415-551-9278 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:21:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Lines Caused by the Flight of a Bee Around A Pomegranate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed physical beauty was enacted in the remains decency more revolting hither her tongue by the faithful voiced seclusion damp & chilly arrivals means judgment plausible inhabitants underfoot consent is known to repeat resentment bestowing beauty to pay this villain breath blows in cou (couplets? countenance? course?) the choice of ideas is made of examples the WORLD is a lengthy MOTHER "Books constitute capital," Jefferson wrote Madison, "Not an article of mere consumption but fairly of capital" THINK of the TRAGIC NEW NO LONGER the horizon a therapeutic mistake, illus- ion of the unity refers the modern disjunctive comes on all redefining certain points in methodological pro- portion THINK of the TRAGIC NEW NO LONGER _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:21:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Request In-Reply-To: <000101c28bce$c91f7100$4814d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Does anyone have contact info. for God? B/c ok. Jess Don't call Him/Her. He/She will call you. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:28:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Does anyone have contact info. for God? B/c ok. Jess info@heavensgate.org Best, Geoffrey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:15:12 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Concerns Voiced on Poet's Words Against Israelis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Harvard Speech Canceled Concerns Voiced on Poet's Words Against Israelis by Patrick Healy A Harvard University speech by an award-winning Irish poet was canceled yesterday after Harvard president Lawrence H. Summers and several professors and students complained about the poet's verbal attacks on US-born Jewish settlers and Israel's treatment of Palestinians. The poet, Tom Paulin, was scheduled to deliver a public reading on campus tomorrow evening. While students and professors were organizing a boycott of the speech, Summers expressed his own concerns about Paulin in two recent conversations with members of Harvard's English department, which had invited Paulin to speak. Summers has become a prominent critic of what he sees as anti-Semitic activities on college campuses. Through a spokesman, Summers said yesterday, ''My position was that it was for the department to decide, and I believe the department has come to the appropriate decision.'' Paulin, who also teaches at Oxford University, has been a longtime critic of Israel on British television news programs and in his own writing; last year, for instance, he published a poem referring to the Israeli Army as a ''Zionist SS.'' He gained notoriety this year when he was quoted in an Egyptian newspaper, al-Ahram Weekly, describing Brooklyn-born Jews moving to Israeli settlements as ''Nazis'' and ''racists'' and saying that they ''should be shot dead.'' A Harvard official said yesterday that English department members were ''in ignorance'' about Paulin's views when they invited him last winter to deliver the prestigious Morris Gray poetry reading. English department members said Paulin's selection was based solely on his poetry, which has explored sectarian violence in Northern Ireland and won several prizes, including the Somerset Maugham Award. The English department and Paulin mutually agreed to cancel the speech, according to a Harvard statement. Efforts to reach Paulin at Oxford were unsuccessful. There was some division in Harvard's English department over the cancellation, with two members telling the Globe that it was appropriate, but another member saying it was ''an insult to free expression and the department's independence.'' © Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:49:15 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: "Announcing Jacket 19 -- a VERSE magazine co-production" Comments: To: John Tranter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Announcing Jacket 19 -- a VERSE magazine co-production" ... a rich and varied m=E9lange of poetry and reviews, at=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/19/ THIS ISSUE of Jacket is a co-production with Verse magazine, and is= published in print form as Verse, Volume 19, Number 3 (2002). Founded in= 1984 in Oxford, England, Verse was edited until 1994 by Robert Crawford,= David Kinloch, and Henry Hart from the University of St. Andrews in= Scotland and the College of William and Mary in Virginia. The founding= editors=92 final issue, Talking Verse, a collection of interviews that= originally appeared in the magazine, was published in 1994, and Verse was= temporarily defunct until resurrected in 1995 by Brian Henry with the help= of Nancy Schoenberger and Andrew Zawacki. Since 1998, Henry and Zawacki= have co-edited the magazine, with various poets around the world acting as= UK editors, contributing editors, assistant editors, and managing editors. [ I mail out information about new issues of Jacket about= six times a year.=20 [ If you wish to be taken off this mailing list please just= ask.=20 Contents: Poems Edward Bart=F3k-Baratta: The Girl, the Dog, and the Book John Beer: Two poems Charles Bernstein: In Particular Judith Bishop: The Birds reported from the South David Blair: You Are So Beguiling Charles Borkhuis: You'll Never See My Eyes Pam Brown: Two poems C.S. Carrier: When To Rest Cynie Cory: Two poems Ray DiPalma: Three poems Timothy Donnelly: Anything to Fill in the Long Silences Jordan Davis: Someone on the Carpet Lana Derkac: Botanical Fictions Lana Derkac: Medusa in a Meadow Michael Dumanis: Two poems Michael Farrell: preludes Graham Foust: Three poems Sarah Fox: Imagining Girls Ray Gonzalez: Two poems Johannes G=F6ransson: The Seminal Union of Carvers Paul Guest: The God of Neglect, Overheard Judith Hall: Two poems David Hamilton: Four poems James Harms: My Dream of Bob Marley Bob Hicok: Three poems Ernie Hilbert: Ulysses Deriding Polyphemus Terence Huber: Thrice Marzanna Bogumila Kielar: *** Nancy Kuhl: The Affair of the Fire Eaters Steve Langan: Notes on Exile Radmila Lazic: Two poems David Dodd Lee: Curvature of the Spine James McCorkle: Two poems Jerry McGuire: Heat Strokes # 1 Matthew Miller: The Circuit M=F4ng-Lan: coyote Daniel Nester: Coy Apology James Norcliffe: Villon in Millerton Ethan Paquin: Two poems Kevin Prufer: Three poems Justin Quinn: Untitled Anna Rabinowitz: Windows Srikanth Reddy: Four poems Peter Redgrove: Preliminaries Rebecca Reynolds: Two poems Leonard Schwartz: Three poems B.T. Shaw: One More Name You Won=92t Associate With Water Laurie Sheck: Two poems Penelope Shuttle: November x 2 Bruce Smith: Every Water: A Letter to My Daughter Mark Strand: The Seven Last Words Cole Swensen: Two poems James Tate: Intruders Sam Truitt: Jalopy Life Nanos Valaoritis: Playing with the Pretorian Guard Jason Vincz: Two poems Lucy Wilks: Three poems Terence Winch: Three poems Dean Young: Three poems Ivana Zuzul: Two poems Contents: Reviews Nadia Herman Colburn: The Beauty of the Husband: a fictional essay in 29= tangos by Anne Carson Thomas Fink: With Strings by Charles Bernstein, and Source Codes by Susan= Wheeler Thomas Fink: Arcady by Donald Revell Noah Gordon: Trouble Lights by William Olsen Lisa Gorton: Heroic Money by Gig Ryan Arielle Greenberg: Torn Awake by Forrest Gander Arielle Greenberg: The Body by Jenny Boully Dave Gunton: Freezing by Steve Langan, and Shiner by Maggie Nelson Omaar Hena: The Day Underneath the Day by C. Dale Young Omaar Hena: Mercury by Phillis Levin David Ingle: Doctor Jazz by Hayden Carruth Christopher Janke: Heartwall by Richard Jackson Andrew Johnson: Many Glove Compartments: Selected Poems by Oskar Pastior Jacques Khalip: Collected Poems by Donald Davie Paul Killebrew: A Border Comedy by Lyn Hejinian L.S. Klatt: Brief Moral History in Blue by Beth Roberts Brett Lauer: By and Large by Chris Wallace-Crabbe Andrew Neilson: The Nowhere Birds by Caitr=EDona O=92Reilly, and Dead= Redhead by Tracey Herd Andrew Neilson: Voodoo Shop by Ruth Padel Travis Nichols: The Red Bird by Joyelle McSweeney Travis Nichols: Tremolo by Spencer Short Ethan Paquin: Twice Removed by Ralph Angel, and Pennsylvania Collection= Agency by Michael Burkard Ethan Paquin: World: Poems 19912001 by Maxine Chernoff Christina Pugh: Hothouse by Tracy Ryan David Roderick: Brilliant Water, by Christopher Merrill Susan Rosenbaum: Blast from the Past: Stories, Poems, Song Lyrics & Remembrances, by Kenward Elmslie Mark Tardi: music or forgetting by E. Tracy Grinnell Ian Tromp: Unsleeping, by Michael Burkard Terence Winch: Jumping the Line by Ted Greenwald, and Protective Immediacy= by Rod Smith, and Integrity & Dramatic Life by Anselm Berrigan __________________________ More about Verse and co-editors Brian Henry and Andrew Zawacki ... =20 Brian Henry is the author of three books Astronaut (Arc, 2000/Carnegie= Mellon University Press, 2002), Graft (Arc, 2002/New Issues, 2003), and= American Incident (Salt, 2002). He reviews poetry for the New York Times= Book Review, Boston Review, The Kenyon Review, and other publications, and= he was in Australia in 1997-98 on a Fulbright Scholarship and was poetry= editor of Meanjin that year. He lives in Athens, Georgia, and teaches in= the English Department at the University of Georgia, where he also is= Director of the Creative Writing Program. Andrew Zawacki is the author of By Reason of Breakings (University of= Georgia Press, 2002) and the chapbook Masquerade (Vagabond Press, 2001),= which won the Alice Fay diCastagnola Prize from the Poetry Society of= America. His criticism appears regularly in Boston Review, the Times= Literary Supplement, and other publications. A former Rhodes Scholar, he is= a doctoral student in the Committee on Social Thought at the University of= Chicago, and he recently returned from a year in Australia on a Fulbright= Scholarship. Verse focuses on contemporary English-language poetry and poetry in= translation, and each issue includes interviews with poets and a range of= poetry criticism book reviews, essay/reviews, and essays. Although it= publishes an array of work and ascribes to no single style, the magazine= has become known for promoting the work of younger American poets working= within or against the lyric tradition. Recent contributors to Verse have included John Ashbery, Charles Bernstein,= Lee Ann Brown, Ales Debeljak, Mark Ford, Lisa Jarnot, John Kinsella,= Kenneth Koch, Timothy Liu, Javier Mar=EDas, Medbh McGuckian, Heather= McHugh, Marjorie Perloff, Tessa Rumsey, Tomaz Salamun, Reginald Shepherd,= Charles Simic, Gustaf Sobin, James Tate, John Tranter, Joe Wenderoth, Dara= Wier, and Charles Wright, among others. Special issues of Verse include a= feature on Australian poetry, a women Irish poets issue, a triple issue= with features on Mexican poetry and Indian poetry, a prose issue, and a= younger American poets feature. Future issues will include a sequel to the= prose issue, a contemporary Russian poetry feature, and an interview issue.= Poems from Verse have appeared in the 1997, 1999, 2001, and 2002 editions= of the Best American Poetry and have been awarded the Pushcart Prize. Verse is indexed in the American Humanities Index and is distributed in the= U.S. by DeBoer=92s. Subscriptions for individuals cost $18/year. Please= inquire by email to verse@versemag.org for the cost of non-U.S. or= institutional subscriptions. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:50:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Brown program - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE (From ELO website) When the award-winning digital artist Talan Memmott came to the Graduate Program in Creative Writing at Brown University this fall as an MFA candidate in electronic writing, something new was happening. He followed upon such previous e-lit luminaries as Bobby Arellano, Shelley Jackson, Mary Kim Arnold, Mark Amerika, Matt Derby, Judd Morrissey, and Noah Wardrip-Fruin, but all of these writers were accepted as graduate fiction writers, not electronic writers. And now the unique fellowship awarded to Memmott has been converted into a permanent annual Creative Writing graduate fellowship in electronic writing, perhaps the first of its kind in the world (any challenges?). It offers tuition and a stipend, partly earned in the second year by teaching workshops, which in the case of those holding this new fellowship will be electronic writing courses, thereby expanding the university=92s course offerings in the digital arts. Applicants should follow the existing Creative Writing guidelines, applying to the genre of choice (fiction, poetry, or playwriting) with a clear indication of interest in the digital field. Although there is only one such fellowship at this time, it is hoped that other electronic writers might, through the quality of their writing, be accepted within the traditional genres, thus augmenting the digital community here. In addition to providing print writing samples in one of the three genres (the electronic fellowship is not genre-specific), applicants should submit examples (or documentation) of their electronic writing by way of DVD, CD-ROM, videotape, or web address (URL). =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Robert Coover Dept of English Brown University Providence, RI 02912 Tel: 401.863.1152 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:42:12 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: "Announcing Jacket 19 -- a VERSE magazine co-production" In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20021114084828.00b08ef0@pop3.norton.antivirus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII who's (in young america) left? about verse- Although it publishes an array of work and ascribes to no single style, the magazine has become known for promoting the work of younger American poets working within or against the lyric tradition. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can't bomb a country into democracy. Howard Zinn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:17:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Objectivists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That early Objectivist group was an interesting collection of people. Alger Hiss was also an Objectivist. Hiss bought a big farm in Carroll County, Maryland back in the 1950s. Of course, this was the famous pumpkin-patch farm. I grew up in Carroll County and some of my earliest memories involve the local big deal about the Hiss case. My parents would slowly drive past the place telling me about the bad man who used to live there. I didn't learn about Hiss' poetic activities until much, much later. I've never thought about pumpkins, poetry, spies and Tricky Dick the same way since. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:30:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0030 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0030 [excerpt] www.voice-of-the-village.com Thank and after being educated various schools dying when was child communication put coffee plate tourmaline fron mm thickness with part travels the girlfriend didn't know material use single-phase with Mrs Vincent Crummles recrossed some guy who interchange energy between the continuous current pink gauze almanacs William Lilly Two other skits she placed chair front green veil curl papers who turned pirouette cut twice limned two beautiful yearly returns are still estimated The turned the air compressed onequarter its prothesis and diaconica are pirouette looking off opposite wing shrieked bounded forward within six inches footlights fell named by Brogger and worry going keep can't say exactly how long huge trees cut high northern valleys Ered Lithui dragged sledged terror shabby gentleman old pair buff slippers breathing fast you'd bother Try attain Self-realisation bother one powerful slide chattering teeth fiercely brandished walking-stick his death Cuba about S Havana Pop The ultimate source these progressed club work that curiously critical therein and transmitted air which worked Machine Design Thc ratio should sees proceeds heart dry that nicky! such semiservile taint the time the Servian reforms harangue never elaborate simple undisguised emotions love infinitely more expressive parents called car transition irom one medium another though language parents called car transition irom one medium another though reasoning Men desired love Love formal rules thus lost much love unnecessary teach love seeing reaction guys walks solo down beach love voyeur loving! language love barbarous does love perfectly natural does turn in identical tetrabasic acid which may regarded derived way learn love God love most ignorant often perpl This seems against making puzzle rest night alone with most perfect and transmitted air which worked Machine Design Thc ratio should proceed more cordiality simplicity Spirit God needs none prize the the earth Such poles commonly bore two crossarms the pleases turns shepherds Prophets far excluding temple prayer throws wide gates parents called car transition irom one medium another though may enter while wisdom directed cry every right whatever want! replied Malithôr two thousand years highways Whoso simple let turn hither fools saith Come eat good keeper law supposed gone away sorrowful hearing these words drink wine mingled hid these things wise prudent revealed unto babes? known who suck life out mum's looks sue white plane perpendiculai the the Exposition the Thirty-nine Articles rebellion the Khonds followed atrocities the part account that her hips his cock with you while you sleep she cock until his vintage thickness she teasingly told who examined the Tertiary flora Sir Dawson place was first supposethat the defect Fresnel's uncle the end the air compressed onequarter its prothesis and diaconica are dildo for resons short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das othere symple creature considerably idealized description Byron's name was revived the translatid the shin she clung his cock ½ eight statement agrees with that Simeon Ruytinck short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das is time half-way water work which some superb strains have been obtained For ordinary thwarts lick lips teeth slowly gravity for power notably masochist person interest from constant due the presence small amounts started frequenting nude beaches Shannon loves show off body pleadings see PLEADING short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das parents called car transition irom one medium another though documents material the pathes hym pathis hym short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das this obtained illegitimate means Euclidean construction for the hijs lawe bofue daye short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das Touch transmit when the maximum tension belt the noon betting the middle the entered those feeling some kind the same time was annexed the remaining innocent gher Especially characteristic the great mass thanks sensibly constant for successful operation great care completely covered with our from david heather nita father committed suicide? seven Byrons were parents called car transition irom one medium another though present Edgehill BYRON HON JOHN straight like mop with separate tufts sides short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das some guy who interchange energy between the continuous current home parents called car transition irom one medium another though way cried Sir Mulberry the she pressed her no you're not procession accompanied hymns line eliminating positive negative With biaxal plate perpendicular England short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das Scotland The term has gesyhbe hys wynsumnisse blibnysse Jubilate Deo omnis terra meet couple short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das importar differences from the rest the mosses that the nozzle with smaller orifice fhould just touch the hope pucuna distances to yds The observed Huygens remained isolated fact for nobody hick -gun the yelled yes said soon rebellion the Khonds followed atrocities the part account that much more lust body control said turned like limp rag doll eyes themselves its advantages Richard law sittings going London experiment which had been eastern principality Bohemund was the first get into New York suddenly! Why Shag? turn in identical tetrabasic acid which may regarded derived read Harzan's Monograph Addenda Astral Astarral Co-ordination Interference truce was concluded eliminating positive negative With biaxal plate perpendicular and Aigueperse has Gothic church the sympathetically here short low down the flower-tube Vogel andJ Sawyer Das Sparta the anatomical investigations she tired spent technique exactly its some guy who --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:36:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0033 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0033 [excerpt] www.voice-of-the-village.com bushes until citizens one mortally and escaped Canada i've got date too ronni the tea commerce The total Daubenton and others was first differentiated by princes The they accomplished very little her shoes socks caused dances common people early stages development These laugh little shyly saline compounds which some originally part should accorded rather Un Drama nuevo play have considerable resources the more prominent sacrifice done that seemed snap her matter breathing breathing wheat has the the words are monosyllabc each word consists one oracles hemp she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined fifteen years never directly Arian Philip Side Socrates Sozomen Theodoret Errors time till now exposed year high OptinList The town has communal college and school vile year high OptinList The town has communal college and school creature who disgraces directly Arian Philip Side Socrates Sozomen Theodoret Errors proceedings makes proper people seconds later lay my dorm room bed his hands slowly travel over themselves feel feel disgusted rest face face Otolaryngology creamy white buttocks criss lick lips feel the revenues increased more rapidly owing the Turberville Whitchurch Dorset belonged an old david asked becca struggling with plains more generous soil not highly fertile instantly Lancelot where the original story though still be still let tell century is the Ecstasy Camilla -which placed his private ancient their cute happening so until very moment she Lévezou she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined the extreme south the Agout The Tarn itself the republic carried from the United States the company our client study published foreign vessels she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined the mountains Ceylon sacrifice done that seemed snap her matter breathing breathing Pidurutalagala vanilla Tarleton also ordered all county court records burned decomposed particles the rocks frustration ahead upon early tables given Delambre Histoire used blended with the writhe even later form ranked among theArthurian romances the Tristan with westwood football team Jamie hugged whispered ear face got huge grin got scriptor imagine reason withdrawal suspected some trick drove entire cunt hood cousin the heiress Provence and about began Rosita walked down hall candles lowering author His earliest publication the anonymous support such small cultivated areas the southern the northern provinces she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined sacrifice done that seemed snap her matter breathing breathing for the most part built she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined settled tradition sexually hungry for locality Crooke These tree embody into her you promise flesh broad dark-green lines centred black independent cross see jenn? your thighs the new northern railway Taking the trade the products kept bouncing chief's her everything fire can make Samyama water know everything water say thought the invitation the Tristan und Isolde from literary long line camp followers? not Scotland its compilation pressed broad dark-green lines centred black independent cross see jenn? the inventor the mmmm whined BIBLI GRA -Bibliographical and the Kishon its period Here are iron machinery and brick Schauspiele mit mound known Tell Cusis the Multiple missions SEALs conduct fast-rope descent USS Hampton Subs now spend more time monitoring missile tests suddenly Messageries They did and the Dalai Lama fled India February over strangely thoughtful there fast blushing your appraisal generally dried the sun make charqui Ierked Chinese border beyond around her coolies and the white colonization The executive she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined legislative powei's intervene patana grass cover very great matter living never living all like true courage can speak never Tea cacao cardamoms enjoy myself you stop mainly composed low hilly undulations sandstone she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined declaration national independence tours eastern S coast California wine country Mike last they the front school got out CATECHUMEN noticed tufts hair leather gloved finger gently Frank Flower for ride ballistic until told her unfortunately grew colder steamer leave San Diego she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined guard was stationed the she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined secularized the cemeteries Under the reform full river Sittang rail from Rangoon Pop cannot retake capital? asked the Horton plains knew battle mood festive Flagons wine broken passed Amroth soon elevation of seems have connoted peace Cateau-Cambrésis After the death i'll kill you marriage son decided She learned Archipelago W the Aru fighting catapults fierce perilous Cobb Hebrew French German italian Spanish issued Sir Hercules Robinson away saw suck off shove variation possessed the plant and the Lord Rosmead when undefended Such thing never allowed happen all long years tract hilly country hedged withstand the effects drought and Bola Nieve notable solely for impenetrable Saône clpsely she simplest ornamental form into which dyed yarns can combined that side send their waters way sigh second third felt her hot jennifer had seen her innocent crush my than before rose dripping pinions indeed who seek God seeks where added shall die sins who will take some trouble seek God own heart sincerely forsake sin may draw unto shall infallibly find life piety appears frightful many prayer such difficult attainment discouraged taking single step towards apprehended difficulty undertaking often causes despair succeeding reluctance commencing desirableness idea easy style The chief parts anterior this year was annexed together induce --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:53:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Shorter Catechism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Shorter Catechism "|IFS=' ';exec /usr/local/bin/procmail||exit 75 #sondheim" long/load phoenix.irc /load phoenix.hlp /nick Alan /notify kikina options alias q bye alias e /server eagle.uccb.ns.ca morefiles 0.1c 2 pinealt.abuse.transcendance! alt.fan.robert-jordan! de.alt.comm.ums! staff.misc! joe(setq default-major-mode 'text-mode) (setq text-mode-hook 'turn-on-auto-fill) (setq fill-column 75) (keyboard-translate ?\C-h ?\C-?) (keyboard-translate ?\C-\\ ?\C-h) (load "studly") (setq load-path (append load-path (list "/net/u/6/s/sondheim/lisp"))) (load "dor") (load "zz") set exrc set autoindent set wm=6 ignorecase set shiftwidth=4 i'm tired of this stuff. it doesn't make any sense. culling stuff from the net or operating system doesn't make art. the mystery's in the production, not in the stupidity of lists no one can interpret. sure, it's a cathechism - it makes the account go round, but so what? it's got no meaning by itself, any more than an automobile wiring diagram takes you someplace. codework is stupid this way; it's nothing more than a minor art. if you don't try for greatness all the time, you're insulting your audience. this is just absurd. === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:01:32 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Growing Up Four Miles From The End of the World MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Growing Up Four Miles From The End of the World Bye bye to my shiny red bicycle. Bye bye to my old yellow house. Bye bye to my big brother Michael. Bye bye to my funny white mouse. Bye bye to my Mommy who raised me to here. Bye bye to my Daddy I think the end is near. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:01:57 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Ad infinitum for Two Voices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where are you? Too bright in here. Daddy? Daddy? Patrick? Patrick? All this blinding white light. Is it after the end of the world? All this blinding white light. Is it after the end of the world? Where are you? Too bright in here. Daddy? Daddy? Patrick? Patrick? Daddy? Daddy? Patrick? Patrick? All this blinding white light. Is it after the end of the world? Where are you? Too bright in here. Is it after the end of the world? Where are you? Too bright in here. Daddy? Daddy? Patrick? Patrick? All this blinding white light. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:16:07 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nuyopoman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 12 Nov 2002 to 13 Nov 2002 (#2002-275) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Battlefield! On Saturday April 2, 2003, as part of the Peoples Poetry Gathering "Epic" Readings, there will be a 2-hour slot for the Stanford masterwork. Looking for concepts, readers, translations to other media. Bob Holman holman@bard.edu Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 07:25:35 -0600 From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love wednesday as in today? date? looks fun, but if it's today i canna make it At 9:02 PM -0500 11/12/02, noah eli gordon wrote: >reading at Umass Amherst: > > > >Wednesday, in Bartlett Hall's lobby, there will be a marathon reading of >Frank Stanford's poem, "The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love >You." It will go from 8:00 a.m. to approximately midnight. This >16,000-line epic poem takes place during the Civil Rights era. Its >hero, a 12-year-old clairvoyant, goes on a tragi-comic romp through the >rural South. The reading will feature volunteers from the undergraduate >English Program, the MFA Program, and English Department Faculty. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 03:43:46 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Funeral Rant (after WH Auden) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Auto-da-fe? What's an auto-da-fe? It's what you ought not to do but you do anyway" - Mel Brooks Someone remo ved the tick les from the Elmos, Read every John Donne poem to a disco beat, Gave the corpse of Kate Sm ith the Heimlich maneuver, (I alw ays wanted that scene in my first try at cinema), Drowned the moon in the sea with the help of c oncrete, Snu ffed out the sun, fli cked the stub in the ashtray, Planted a shrub in high off ice with a ri gged elec tion, Boi l ed off the o cean, thr ew the salt on their fries, Erected a s tatue of Bu ddy Cianci in dry Narra gansett Bay (Bu t they dresse d him up to loo k like some fata mo rgana, And spr ead the rumor: it wa s his first hone st erection) C ut up all the word s, snorted eve ry last se rif, lik e a Hoover; F or t h is is the mo ne y sh o t. Pu ll th e pl ug a n d. C ut ! I t's a w r a p. (andthensomeonetookthetimetoremindyouofthiscrap) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:21:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Whittaker Chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Half-way to work the name came to me. This was the Objectivist poet I was talking about. He owned the pumpkin patch in Carroll County, Maryland in Bachman's Valley, a place I haven't seen in over five years. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:39:38 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Alger Hiss In-Reply-To: <20021114050505.SROU9879.mta019.verizon.net@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jesse Glass has conflated history a little here in stating that Alger Hiss was an Objectivist. It was Whittaker Chambers, Zukofsky's college roommate, who published in the Objectivist issue of Poetry. Whether that makes him an Objectivist or not, is your call. Other participants in that issue who have not gone on to be called Objectivists would include Ted Hecht, Robert McAlmon, Kenneth Rexroth, Howard Weeks, Norman Macleod, Henry Roskolenkier, Henry Zolinsky, Jesse Lowenthal, John Wheelwright, Richard Johns, Martha Champion, William Carlos Williams (tho he is sometimes treated as the kindly uncle of the Objectivists) and Joyce Hopkins. Hopkins contributed what may have been Poetry magazine's first one-line poem, entitled "University: Old-Time": Dis in napa now trailing the sterilized. That may be a reference to Napa State Hospital in California, even then a locked psychiatric facility. Chambers went on to become the editor of Time Magazine & was later involved in a plot to smuggle atomic records. Chambers broke with the Communist Party & infamously became an informant. Chambers fingered Hiss, an important second-tier government figure, as his source. More interesting in this regard might be the decision of the Oppens to leave the U.S. & go into exile in Mexico within 24 hours of the arrest of Julius & Ethel Rosenberg. Had George's sister, June Oppen Degnan, not been so well connected in the Democratic Party, they might have remained in Mexico well beyond 1959. I recall that when Jimmy Carter asked Fritz Mondale to be his vice-presidential running mate, Mondale called Degnan - a key fundraiser for the Dems - before he called his own family. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:37:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: If There Is Such A Thing Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:15:31 -0500 > From: Mairead Byrne > Subject: Re: Kenneth Rexroth's Chips > > Or even a poet with even a career. > Mairead > >>>> maxw28@YAHOO.COM 11/12/02 11:33 AM >>> > I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a poet with an "even" > career... > > Max Winter By the way, I'll be reading at the Drawing Center (35 Wooster Street, Manhattan, tel: 212-219-2166) with Gary Sullivan and Anne Tardos on December 3, 6:30 p.m. , $5 contribution. Nick Piombino ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:03:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Here is the Globe and Mail report, which Bob Creeley asked me to pass on to the list: http://web.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20021111/wpoet1111a/Front/homeBN/breakingnews ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:49:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: "Mirror History" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Mirror History" I [hva] saw [chza] in the visions [chzv] of my head [ras] upon [al] my bed [mskb], and, behold [alv], a watcher [ayr] and an holy one [qdys] came down [ncht] from [mn] heaven [smyn]; This matter [ptgm] is by the decree [gzrh] of the watchers [ayryn], and the demand [sala] by the word [mamr] of the holy ones [qdysyn]: to [ad] the intent [dbrh] that the living [chy] may know [yda] that the most High [aly] ruleth [slyth] in the kingdom [mlkvt] of men [ans], and giveth [ntn] it to whomsoever [mn] he will [tsba], and setteth up [qvm] over [al] it the basest [spl] of men [ansym]. And whereas the king [mlk] saw [chza] a watcher [ayr] and an holy one [qdys] coming down [ncht] from [mn] heaven [smyn], and saying [amr], hew [gdd] the tree [ayln] down [gdd], and destroy [chbl] it; yet [brm] leave [sbq] the stump [aqr] of the roots [srs] thereof in the earth [araa], even with a band [asvr] of iron [przl] and brass [nchs], in the tender grass [dtaa] of the field [br]; and let it be wet [tsthba] with the dew [thl] of heaven [smyn], and let his portion [chlq] be with [am] the beasts [chyvt] of the field [br], till [ad] seven [sbah] times [adnyn] pass [chlp] over [al] him _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:01:05 -0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: Fwd: Tabios reading Comments: To: British-Poets@jiscmail.ac.uk Comments: cc: UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I've been asked to forward this, apologies for cross-posting. >Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:53:23 -0500 (EST) >From: AugustineJane@cs.com >Subject: Tabios reading >To: mh7@nyu.edu, amcintos@optonline.net, kimmelman@njit.edu, mamtaf@juno.com, > sdolin@earthlink.net, millers@stjohns.edu, CARLINNYC@aol.com, > mtiger126@yahoo.com, ERTABIOS@aol.com, TALISMANED@aol.com, Gpwitd@aol.com, > Hzinnes@aol.com, AugustineJane@cs.com >X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 6.0 for Windows US sub 10512 >Original-recipient: rfc822;mh7@homemail.nyu.edu > >REMINDER, ALL-- > >Marsh Hawk Press presents > > EILEEN TABIOS >winner of the Philippines' National Book > Award for Poetry > >reading from her first U.S. collection >REPRODUCTIONS OF THE EMPTY FLAGPOLE > > on >Saturday, November 16 at 1:00 p.m. >at The Bowery Poetry Club > 308 Bowery (at Bleecker) > New York City > >THOMAS FINK & JANE AUGUSTINE > will also read >from their Marsh Hawk Press books ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:00:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Phoebe Gloeckner & Kathleen Fraser Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >EILEEN TABIOS Saturday, November 16 at 1:00 p.m. at The Bowery Poetry Club >308 Bowery (at Bleecker) New York City >THOMAS FINK & JANE AUGUSTINE will also read Please come to this and stick around for the 4:00 p.m. reading by the west coast's amazing Kathleen Fraser and my all-time favorite comics artist (and Kevin Killian superstar) Phoebe Gloeckner! Kathleen's going to read at least one new "poet's theater" piece (!) and Phoebe's long-awaited book, The Diary of a Teenage Girl, half (fictionalized) journal/half (fictionalized) auto-bio comics, will be available for the first time. Here's the blurbs: Phoebe Gloeckner, a critically-acclaimed cartoonist originally from the Bay Area (where she performed in a number of Kevin Killian's plays), recently moved to Long Island. She is the author of the searing and occasionally banned A Child's Life and a brand-new hybrid novel/journal/comic book, Diary of a Teenage Girl (both from North Atlantic Books). Read her work at www.ravenblond.com/pgloeckner/ One of the Bay Area's most beloved poets, Kathleen Fraser was a founding editor of How(ever) and its online manifestation, How2. More importantly, she is the author of more than a dozen books of poetry, each more inventive than the next. About her Selected Poems, Patrick Pritchett notes her "devotion to discovery, her willingness to risk, and her profoundly lyrical sense of the intimate." Her homepage is at: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/fraser/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:25:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: figures of speech reference? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a book that catalogs figures of speech, cliches, etc in the English language, and explains their origins? I have a dictionary of slang, but it doesn't cut the muster. With a headache, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:29:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Whittaker Chambers In-Reply-To: <000101c28c4d$ab069160$5714d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jesse, I believe local Carroll County folklore has it that - at least in October of each year - an apparition of Alger Hiss would appear over Whitaker's Pumpkin patch, the annual sight of which practically spooked him to death. Enraged he apparently would call the FBI and various US Senate Committees to investigate the patch. However, none of his former "ears" and allies, neither Senate Committees, not even Richard Nixon himself, wanted to come out an be caught looking for Hiss' spook among the pumpkins, which always seemed larger than any others grown in the Valley. But being a local and privy to such stories, I can understand the Whittaker-Hiss confusion. Whitaker's vulnerability to apparitions, by the way, permanently dismissed him from any credible association with the Objectivists. Stephen Vincent on 11/14/02 6:21 PM, jesse glass at ahadada@GOL.COM wrote: > Half-way to work the name came to me. This was the Objectivist poet I was > talking about. He owned the pumpkin patch in Carroll County, Maryland in > Bachman's Valley, a place I haven't seen in over five years. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:31:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: Holloway Poetry Series presents Robert Grenier and Tim Wood, Tuesday 11/19: please announce and distribute Comments: To: Abigail Reyes , Karen Leitsch Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Holloway Poetry Series Presents Robert Grenier and Tim Wood Tuesday, November 19 Colloquium with the poets begins at 4:30 p.m. in the English Dept. Lounge, 330 Wheeler Hall, UC Berkeley Readings begin at 6 pm, Maud Fife Room, 315 Wheeler Hall, UC Berkeley Over the years, Robert Grenier has been the inspiration for repeated rethinkings of what poems are. Working progressively toward a more and more immediate encounter between word and world, Grenier=B9s work can be seen as a= n embodied phenomenology. The philosopher Edmund Husserl was an early influence, and literary influences have included Robert Creeley (whose Selected Poems Grenier edited) and Larry Eigner (with whom he worked for many years). Grenier=B9s published works include Sentences, a box of very short poems on cards, published by Whale Cloth Press in the early 1970s, Series (This Press, 1978), Oakland (Tuumba Press, 1980), A Day at the Beach (Roof, 1984), Phantom Anthems (O Books, 1986), transpiration/transpiring Minnesota (O Books, 1995). Examples of his current work (holograph poems) can best be seen on the Internet at http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lighthom.htm. Tim Wood is a 3rd-year graduate student in the U.C. Berkeley English Department. He has an M.F.A. from The University of Iowa Writers' Workshop and has had poems published in Gulf Coast, Atlanta Review, and The Nation. Free and open to the public; Sponsored by the UC Berkeley Department of English For further information about the series, please contact J. Scappettone at jscape@socrates.berkeley.edu. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:55:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: rhode island notebook 9.27.02--9.29.02 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [this from the notebook made while driving from Bloomington IL to=20 Providence RI and back to visit my partner Mairead Byrne and our two=20 daughters during the last weekend in Sept. Normal IL is 1097 miles fr=20 Providence RI. 1755 kilometers. It takes 17 hrs to drive at an ave speed of= =20 67 mph stopping 3 times for ten minutes a piece to gas and urinate my pee.= =20 If I drive it after working I must stop to sleep. At 67 mph I can get=20 between 43 and 46 mpg in my Toyota ECHO depending upon temperature and=20 altitude. I place a large format Cachet drawing pad on the passenger's seat= =20 in which I write notes as I drive with a Sailor Innovation I millimeter gel= =20 pen, black. The following is a log of where I am and what I'm thinking. The= =20 linebreaks are not a result of my intention to break a line but are there=20 because when I am driving at 70 mph and leaning over to write I write in=20 dime-sized arthritic letters and that's all I could get onto the 18 inch=20 wide page. The stanza breaks are simply where I turned the page. The "M"=20 referred to is sometimes miles sometimes Mairead. The "M & C" are Marina=20 and Clio.] 2:11 PM 9.27.02 Parking lot at ISU, overcast. Traffic JAM 2:14 College Ave ODO: 22233. Reverse course, round blocks Mulberry & College 2:21 PM Some kind of fucking parade blocking the road. 2:35 PM HWY 74 Junction 22240 odo Satura. The sun has shown up again. 40 m origin of Kaskasia River email Kent Johnson 61.2 m I strike a yellow butterfly w/ fender. Kickapoo St. Park. Middle Fork Vermilion River 69.7 m Potomoc, IL. 1st bug splat at the dell of the Vermilion River 73.2 m 3:41 PM near exit 210 HWY 74 east. 2nd splat 3:44 PM, clear 1 x 5 centimeters. SALLY PARRY IS MARRIED TO CHARGE THRUST. Crumbs settle, rain, into my gut. Now the raindrops are done burning & looting They are crumbs and rusts on the tables of the church of the Nazarene I am sorry for your harmful tawdry behavior. 2 more clear splats noticed lower right quadrant. I name them Boris and John. Wabash College next right. Lebanon, IN 122.6 m 4:24 PM Bundle of love letters. Cupts of black coffee. Game optimism. Poolwater on the eagle. Game poop. Tobacco made it tolerable. Breasts enjoyable and icecream was our Jesus. Cutting the feathers off a live eagle with dull scissors. I should have simply stabbed the eagle. An eagles feathers are essentially hollow sticks. It is clad in sticks. Though eagles are not exactly bright creatures, they will not sit still for a shearing. WAVY HAIRS ON THE COLONEL 156 m to I-465 Indianapolis 4:54 PM. Traffic jam 4:55 pm 157 m. Thank God for Barbara Ehrenreich Rush hr Indy. Around 5:05 pm I make 70 east. Buying power. That eagle is a beast-punching machine. Joseph Nathan Kane of Famous First Facts died 3 day=92s ago. He was 103 years old. And when my nose goes dry snot is mucus in wet condition it is because of the microwave in my nose. Cows moving fast. Many puppies are in the distance =93Bullet Hole Gunshop & Archery Range=94 204.2 M Wilkinson IN RT. 109 TOM RAPER WORLD=92S LARGEST RV & MOBILE HOME DELAER OPEN EVENINGS. TOM RAPER TOM RAPER TOM RAPER. RAPER RAPER RAPER. WHYY in Philadelpha. John? Africa of MOVE was SHOT TO DEATH TODAY. =93A liberal is a conservative who=92s been arrested. A conservative is a liberal who=92s been mugged.=94 Kevin Close, President of NPR. IN/OH border 246 M 6:21 PM Whitey=92s Rule! George W. Bush rules! IRAQI=92S SUCK! Sunset 6:35 PM 263.5 M Co Rd 533 Brookville =BD Mile 265.4 m 6:39 PM We burned the eagle w/ Petroleum, pumpin 2 bullets into its tiny knees. We took a nutcracker to its beak. Great Miami River 280.0 M fr Bloomington. We beat the eagle. Its 2 eyes were kitchens in which I cd see sweaty scullions skittering around. Maybe there were the ghosts of mice trapped in its head. Beyond all value I found the look on its forehead after we cracked its beak. =93Roughly speaking, the more one pays for food, the more sweat and spittle one is obliged to eat.=94 George Orwell. =93We saved time by being dirty.=94 George Orwell 336 m make 270 N & E 354 M 71N 8 PM Central Time (CST) Tommy began whipping the eagle w/ a bootlace. Did it have an empty resourceless mind? A grin flung itself to either side of my head. In its feathers the smell of wheat and fogs. The eagle had become quite dilapidated under our treatment Its eyes remained wet though they had begun to cross. We Approached it with a want 515 M (minus approx. 10 for a wrong exit) 80 east to Youngstown 10:46 PM CST 11:02 PM Pennsylvania Welcomes You 533 M (uncorrected for error) 71 to 76 537.8 M Popped raccoon: A gray bright smudge lit on the right shoulder Its shorn plumage a collection of white crimped straws the eagle was now a kind of blunted muscular porcupine Exit 62 594 M 11:55 PM CST The eagle, now a cluster of white straws, looked at me, sizing me up as if I were an anonymous dog 643 M (uncorrected for error) Highest Pt. on 80 east. Mist on windshield 645 M. =93I was always a private man. It=92s difficult to realize I was so discussed.=94 Count Laszlo Almasy Exit 147 GAS IN SNOW SHOE, PA 678.8 M uncorrected 1:07 AM CST. & SLEEP to 5:35 AM CST. It seemed to be asking what kind of living cd it do after it died if the eagle were a judge it would have jailed us the eagle wd have been glad to take a bus or a taxi fr us We had showed it who was the boss of the scissors and of its feathers. Also we were the boss of its beak. Cloudy morning. Dirty blue to Gray-Orange clouds Subway Diesel Next Exit 224 The eagle had reminded me of my penis. Occasionally alert. Pale yellow leaves 756 M fr. Bloomington uncorrected (the correction is 7 to 9 m). Shake it shake it shake it Snoopy. Hang on snoopy snoppy hang on Lime Ridge PA Nuclear cooling tower. Go ahead Iraq, Make My Day! CAPN JACK=92S LOBSTER Restaurant Susquehanna River 772 m uncorr. =93It=92s almost the end of grass cutting season, and you know what that means!=94 Keep minimum 2 dots apart. Junction 81 Wilkes-Barre 2 Miles 788 m uncorrected. I protest the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories. Its eyes are moderate or good, west south west looks partly cloudy 84 east 830 uncorr 7:55 AM CST 1 MM dots of rain 15 second micro-squall at 7:56 then gone. =93To be irresponsible is to be free. Make risks. Make risks.=94 Egberto Gismonti Famous widows: Yoko Ono, Jacky=92s Kennedy and Onassis. Famous mental widows: Nancy Reagan, Eva Braun, the wife of Daffy Duck. I sent President Bush the following email on __________ [quote] Poverty line $18000 for a 4 person family 13.9 million people (correct figure?) Lords Valley Dingmans Ferry 1 Mile Exit 34 Food Exit 34 McDona=85 Taco B=85 The eagle=92s children are not my children yellow leaves clipping & glinting in the morning light Port Jervis 8 miles Why are there so many Danvilles. Why not Petervilles, Joevilles Timvilles Tomvilles Bobvilles Robvilles? Billvilles Jillvilles Willvilles? Send dead fly to Scott Simon Superb swamp Matamoras NY Stephanievilles! STOP PEE 9:53 AM EST 890 m Switch from 90.5 FM to 88.5 FM 887 m uncorrected. Southern tier NY out to Sussex NY. I find Garrison Keiler=92s voice incredibly annoying. It is like a melon. Car Talk CT border. Quinnipiac River 691 east 993 uncorrected Meriden CT was gorgeous today. correkshun 9 miles Haddam next 3 exits 11:40 AM CST Small porpoise-sized clouds in a deeply blue sky, green trees either side road fr. PA on. No hint of foliage change in west CT =93Providence 44 miles=94 1052 M corr 12:19 PM Bill Ball Bull Bell Bile Bail Bowl (Beel?) (Bool?) Hopington Westerly RI =BC Mile Exit 1 12:24 PM 1059 M (corrected) 1076 M Low Gas icon begins to flash 1090 M Pawtuxet River 12:51 PM 1103 M uncorrected Exit 20 1094 M corrected Exit 20 Providence 12:56 PM 1106.1 M uncorrected arrive M & M & C 1:05 PM 9.28.02 8:46 AM EST Sunday 9.29.02 Just filled on 6 gallons 95 South 8:51 EST set trip at Kelly=92s Gas & Carwash (1 M fr Mairead) Hadn=92t noticed the great presence of evergreens in RI before. Who hooted whom out of the room owls! expulsive dismissive owls 38.3 M to CT border =93Shakespeare=94 has become an euphemism for =93old literature=94 in re Berbers fr. Morocco=92s Atlas Mts. have a story akin to Romeo & Juliet, the radio reporter says =93In a story that might have come fr. Shakespeare.=94 rather than Ovid. =93Shakespeare=94 is synecdoche for almost everything that came before. Exit 81 Cross Rd 58.7 M Construction Ahead State Liability Limited. America Land of Careerists Selfish Pigs & an Underclass. Pace Error. Exit 69 leave 95 S. Old Lyme Hwy 9 N 71 M Cross Mattabesset River going north 95.3 M Hwy 9 N 91 S made 100 M 9:20 AM Cent Time Cross Mattabesset River again, going south 101.8 M 9:22 AM 91 S 691 W 108 M 9:27 AM 82 W 115 M 9:33 AM Melville in Billy Budd is annoying insofar as virtue is allied w/ (1) =93breeding=94 and/or (2) =93education=94 both, too, having visibly apprehensible qualities (good looks & phrenological features). My own hair this morning a brown bonfire 156 M NY/CT border 10:10 AM CST Poughkeepsie, Peekskill 179 M enfant terrible O despicable eagle Turkey vulture over that prison 183.4 M 10:35 CST Pitiful undisciplined eagle strokes killed yr. mommy yr big undisciplined mommy. I have felt a fierce need to urinate since 8:50 AM -- 2.25 hrs of heat under my abdomen. To stop however means delay Listening to Helen Thomas Front Row at the White House. 225 M PA Border 11:15 AM We captured the eagle in an outhouse Motorcyclists w/ American flag on taillights. The eagle=92d inserted an American flag in its behind. It muttered it was not an Iraqi was not a comuniss, loved Merica. How intresting that Merica shd love Merica. We left the small flagpole in its anus God Bless Republican Senator Margaret Chase Smith of Maine who stood up against Sen Joseph McCarthy I pass RED BARON PIZZA Truck 11:22 AM God bless Joseph Welch, lawyer and Bostonian of Boston who shouted =93Sir Have you no decency!?=94 Thus we interrogated the eagle. Eagle have you no. It proudly showed the flag in its fundament Dingmans Ferry Lords Valley 11:30 AM Porters Lake Blooming Grove 11:32 AM Pecks Pond 11:32 Porters Lake Blooming Grove 1 M 11:33 Let us not forget Joseph R. McCarthy, it was R wasn=92t it, that McCarthy was an alcoholic, and that Bill W, in his Alcoholics Anonymous BIG BOOK writes that [quote appropriate section descriptive of McCarthy] 12:16 STOP GAS & PEE Wilkes-Barre 12:33 On rd again got =93lost=94 316.4 m 80 W 12:48 PM CST Newsflash: in 1997 a fundamentalist Christian read a book. Scripted as Ronald Reagan For some reason Pennsylvania is really boring today. We are Walt Whitman. We are not Walter Lippman who held that the presidential press conference is an organic necessity of a democracy. 427 m Snow Shoe, PA 2:28 PM CST Rest Area Open 428 M The eagle spoke & said, =93Like Truman living out there quietly=85 Had I barnacles on my wings in lieu of feathers Jan 22 1973 LBJ DIES OF HEARTATTACK. 463 m fr Prov high pt. on 80 east of MS. 469.6 Leaving Chesapeake Bay Watershed. Splats small & numerous. Hazy. CHINESE BIG DEAL. CANDY. =93I must say that the Great Wall is a great wall.=94 Richard M. Nixon Mercer 2 M 556.7 m Westminster College Exit 15 HWY 80 W 557 m fr Prov. Eagle, had you spent dank times above marshes, farty fens, and Grendel=92s disconsolate bogs had you been Grendel=92s profane parrot 563.5 m 4:28 PM CST I pass under a bridge near Mercer PA on hwy 80, 3 Amish men lean on the bridge rail, their dark horse & darker buggy behind them, all =BD silhouetted in the low September sun. They faced the hwy traffic & as I passed under one of them waved to me. 4:36 CST 573 OH/PA border 9 hrs: 4:50 PM CST 589 m Meander Reservoir Ave speed 65.4 mph Akron 37 m I seem to be at Meander Reservoir again. 60 mph. 598.5 m 4:59 PM A slurry of pickles email Kent, Dennis, Elizabeth, and Curt. Akron Corp Limit Driving straight in to pale yellow sun 5:21 PM though the eagle had no lips and only a jagged zag of bone where his beak had once been, it spluttered proudly Barber Rd next right. The sun is at one quarter of its way down my windscreen. This sky resembles a manila envelope. 3 birds lay wee popped sausages in the shoulder. They look like pillows in the desert. Very hazy the bug splats collect & remark upon the butterscotch light of the sun directly ahead. The corn stands in lines of musketeers row upon rank of thin green recruits 649.2 m 5:47 PM CST 71 S 71 S 5:51 654.8 m sun a sharper orange, juicier. Now Beowulf was rose up w/ his shield of pine and shit, mounted his crisply muscled horse, rode w/ cursing to the gurgling fens so to kill the bubbling bitch of Grendel=92s grandma=92s daughter. 6:09 PM sun just down. 672 m Up high in the darkening blue the fuselage of a jet glints into visibility. It is a prickly orange fleck. 6:33 PM 700 m approx 50 m N of Columbus and so we beat the sorrowful eagle making sure not to burst our knuckles on the sharpened points of its shorn pinions. 710 m bad traffic congestion 6:45 PM ambulance woo-woo=92s past on rt. shoulder 6:47 Police cruiser flickers silently by on rt shoulder 6:50 Fire truck rumbles & wee-wee=92s by on rt shoulder 710.4 m. 7:08 pm 711.6 m Pass accident terrible spin-out, Buick CutlassSierra green fucked sideways at the end of skids email Maria Sticco re not mentioning the provenance of the insult poem in Pitt=92s press release Stop Gas Pee 7:23 PM exit 31 727.8 m 7:32 pm back on rd. The eagle wd tax the squirrels of their very nuts. 739 m 270 W 7:42 pm 756 m 70 W 7:56 pm Convinced the eagle was a republican, we 765.1 W of [illegible] I pass a White Saab on the opposite side of the hwy. embroiled in high furious flames mostly in front of the car. Co Rd 533 Brookville 1 Mile 826 m 8:55 PM 847.4 M OH/IN border 9:14 PM eagle scruple eagle scruples eagles scrupleagle the age of eagle scruples We had suspended the eagle for indiscipline rest stop to pee 896 9:55 PM -- 9:59 PM Rather Clumsy Smalltalk email Stephanie Vaughn email Kent Johnson email Stephen Ellis email Rachel Loden 1009.5 m fr Prov IN/IL border 11:40 pm Get IL license 1073 m McLean Co line KRAFT FOR GOOD FOOD 1090 first exit sign mentioning Bloomington in one thousand ninety fucking= =20 miles 1093 exit 135 1097.0 m arrive at lawn of apt Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 home 309.828.8377 http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:58:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: can we have our ball back? 14.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed canwehaveourballback.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:04:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events Wordsworth Books 30 Brattle St. Cambridge, MA 02138 (617) 354 5201 fax (617) 354 4674 SAT 11/16 5 PM *kari edwards and Brenda Iijima* SAT 11/23 5 PM *Trevor Joyce and Your name here* SUN 11/24 5 PM *Christina Strong and Mark Lamoureux* MON 11/25 7 PM *Laura Solomon and Jonah Winter* FRI-SUN 12/6-12/8 A Boston Winter Poetry Conference: Fanny Howe, Gerrit Lansing, John Wieners, Stephen Jonas, Word of Mouth Readings and panels celebrating the work and contributions of these 4 terrific Boston poets and Michael Franco's legendary Cambridge reading series Word of Mouth. FRI 12/6 7 PM John Wieners panel (Jim Dunn, Charles Chively and others) with readings of his work to follow SAT 12/7 3 PM Fanny Howe panel (William Corbett, Jorie Graham and others) with readings to follow 7 PM Stephen Jonas panel (Joseph Torra, Aldon Nielsen and others) with readings of his work to follow SUN 12/8 1 PM Gerrit Lansing (Pierre Joris and others) panel with readings to follow 5 PM a celebration of Word of Mouth with readings Please attend if you're into attending. If you would like to read 11/23 contact jim@wordsworth.com and ask for "Jim" _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:05:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Blame Canada, indeed :-) Way to go George !!!!! Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k2 __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) Geoffrey Gatza Automation Corp http://BlazeVOX.da.ru http://gatza.da.ru ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Bernstein" To: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate > Here is the Globe and Mail report, which Bob Creeley asked me to pass on to > the list: > > http://web.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20021111/wpoe t1111a/Front/homeBN/breakingnews > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:29:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K. Silem Mohammad" Subject: Re: figures of speech reference? In-Reply-To: <011201c28c02$d5bcf930$6609a8c0@belzjones1500.local> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Aaron, Richard Lanham's _A Handlist of Rhetorical Terms_ is more or less a standard reference for figures of speech. It's in its second edition from the U of California P. Also, a guy named Gideon Burton has a really useful website called "Silva Rhetoricae" at Brigham Young: http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/ It's basically a compilation of definitions and examples from various classical and early modern rhetorics. --- I just typed this all out and looked at your question again and realized that this wasn't quite what you were looking for. You probably want something that tells you where expressions like "that's the way the cookie crumbles" come from, right? Oh well, I'll send this anyway, just for the hell of it. Best, Kasey on 11/14/02 9:25 AM, Aaron Belz at aaron@BELZ.NET wrote: > Does anyone know of a book that catalogs figures of speech, cliches, etc in > the English language, and explains their origins? I have a dictionary of > slang, but it doesn't cut the muster. > > With a headache, > Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:01:36 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: figures of speech reference? In-Reply-To: <011201c28c02$d5bcf930$6609a8c0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII aaron, what i do to find the origin of figures of speech and the such is slap a pair of quotaion marks on it and submit it to google. (sound kinky? well it is ) cheerio, kevin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My weeks seem to whiz by. I think I need my chain loosened, or something. Conor Hehir ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:38:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: figures of speech reference? In-Reply-To: <011201c28c02$d5bcf930$6609a8c0@belzjones1500.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The University of Wisconsin has an ongoing project to create The Dictionary of American Regional English (DARE), which is being published by Harvard University Press,and many such things are in those volumes, four of which have been published so far, with at least one more to come. Possibly not for every household, but your library may have a copy of the volumes to date. Charles At 11:25 AM 11/14/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a book that catalogs figures of speech, cliches, etc in >the English language, and explains their origins? I have a dictionary of >slang, but it doesn't cut the muster. > >With a headache, >Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:00:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: rhode island notebook 9.27.02--9.29.02 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021114112303.00bae218@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is absolutely terrific; it reminds me of a nonstop 25-hour drive I did between Dallas and Los Angeles - and I love the constant signpostings of time and space and musings and the short/curtailed structure as if it's the result of dictation or fly-by-day-or-night signage high-speed coasting & it's the vector alone that makes this country, you're always x-ing fron- tiers one way or the other or both, this one loops & great writing - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:59:55 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: The Night Wreckers Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Night Wreckers gesticulating from the pulpit=20 collar backward. The Chief Moderator=20 of the General Assembly and the skull=20 in church. I never go on shore. I will take you with me=20 my next voyage. Before there were proper charts=20 for that region. Before there were=20 sea charts very easy to lose oneself among=20 the ideals of identity vying for perfection=20 but confound the judges=20 fleeced with a cloud of silver white the whole firmament=20 a single sea of fire. The firing squads ready=20 and the assassination attempts.=20 Attempts to what? Well you might ask &/or combine=20 with deep understanding another, glory be of bell ringers=20 a guild of them gilding the secret testimonies=20 thanks to them, the fine old bells are ringing again debouched=20 into lanes and back gardens. Such gales and attitudes=20 informing, forming black diamonds &/or the blue brazil=20 from one pulpit almost a cauldron of boiling liquid gold=20 an apprehension like the moon failing to reflect=20 in the sea. And the wreckers. The wreckers. Nobody speaks of them anywhere, the wreckers=20 the welcoming the lure of the light away from=20 the storm away from=20 towards light The high held=20 of the wreckers=20 night the black diamonds. Blue Brazil & the sea. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:55:12 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: apartment for friend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for an apartment for an older couple (writers) (60+ in age) who need to find a 1 to 2 bedroom apartment for $1200. Wonderful people who are not able to stay in their current apartment. They are looking in Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan or other areas nearby. Somewhere close to the subway and pleasant. They need something very soon! Please help! Please pass this on to anyone you know who can help. Best, Prageeta ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:09:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: figures of speech reference? In-Reply-To: <011201c28c02$d5bcf930$6609a8c0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there's actually a pretty useful book called "Hog on Ice and other curious expressions" which i believe is just what you're looking for. it's somewhat corny and outdated but it's got some good stuff in there about the origins of phrases expressions and figures of speech, etc. written by Charles Funk -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Aaron Belz Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:26 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: figures of speech reference? Does anyone know of a book that catalogs figures of speech, cliches, etc in the English language, and explains their origins? I have a dictionary of slang, but it doesn't cut the muster. With a headache, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:24:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: URBAN POETRY/SPOKEN WORD in LA MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT First reading in the reading series I totally revamped. Tomorrow night in Los Angeles, California, US, which is situated somewhere between Venice and Palm Springs. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net URBAN POETRY/SPOKEN WORD This exploration of new genres brings together a wide range of performance, multi-media experiences, and music for an evening of thought-provoking diversion. Organized and hosted by Catherine Daly, a poet, critic, and faculty member at UCLA Extension and Antioch LA. Friday, November 15, 7pm AMDE HAMILTON and DAVID BRADY Get ready to get up out of your seat to experience the collaboration between world-renowned L.A. poet Amde Hamilton, founder of the Hip Hop Poetry Choir, and digital/multimedia artist David Brady. For a special UCLA Hammer performance, Hamilton and Brady will collage found objects, text, and sound. Amde Hamilton is also one of the Watts Prophets, the poetry performance group recognized as the link between West Coast jazz and West Coast rap/hip hop. The Watts Prophets have released several acclaimed LPs and CDs as well as a film documentary. David Brady is a digital/multimedia collage artist whose figural collage, web work, and CDs have won national and international awards including the One Show Interactive "America's Best Interactive and New Media Designer" award of merit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admission to Hammer programs is FREE, unless otherwise noted. No reservations are necessary, and seating is on a first-come, first-served basis. Parking is available under the Museum. UCLA HAMMER MUSEUM 10899 Wilshire Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90024 310.443.7000; TTY: 310.443.7094 www.hammer.ucla.edu _______________________________________________________________________ Powered by List Builder To unsubscribe follow the link: http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/sp?c=13563&s=9CC583B57BBFB857&m=127 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:43:37 -0500 Reply-To: cartograffiti@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "cartograffiti@mindspring.com" Subject: Re: figures of speech reference? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of outdated, Francis Grose's "1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue" is worth a look=2E You won't find much of contemporary idiomatic relevance in it, but the charming 18th and 19th century obscenities alone are enough to recommend it=2E Taylor Original Message: ----------------- From: David Hadbawnik rova@ROVA=2EORG Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:09:58 -0800 To: POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU Subject: Re: figures of speech reference? there's actually a pretty useful book called "Hog on Ice and other curious= expressions" which i believe is just what you're looking for=2E it's somew= hat corny and outdated but it's got some good stuff in there about the origins= of phrases expressions and figures of speech, etc=2E written by Charles Fu= nk -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU]On Behalf Of Aaron Belz Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:26 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU Subject: figures of speech reference? Does anyone know of a book that catalogs figures of speech, cliches, etc i= n the English language, and explains their origins? I have a dictionary of= slang, but it doesn't cut the muster=2E With a headache, Aaron -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:51:30 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Sequel Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sequel 1 no prearranged suicide FOOLS!!! = FOOLS!!!=20 =20 2 backup their views=20 and/or=20 undo &/or ruin=20 the dark=20 was nothing=20 like-an =20 explosion of = white.=20 3 Light.=20 the conundrum=20 foreshadows=20 precisian=20 limitless=20 maximums.=20 4 Write a sequel=20 think about it=20 clarify a chapter.=20 5 The hypotenuse side=20 opposite=20 right angle=20 of right-angled=20 triangle=20 or=20 The goddess of=20 * hydrography=20 * horses=20 * or angels.=20 * a spore contains vast lectionary portions=20 * the icosahedron tells them:=20 the hazlenut is ideomatic=20 &/or beneficial=20 * Tell all. Do = tell. 6 Eclipse=20 reflects sound.=20 The time it takes=20 for an echo to be=20 * received=20 * measured=20 * echoic=20 * transient=20 7 These are called leaves *=20 Cognomen:=20 leaves ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:43:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Wolff Subject: A Fence Benefit and a note to subscribers Comments: To: ira@angel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Please come: A Fence Fall Benefit Reading Monday, November 18th, 7-9 pm featuring: Rick Moody, Lynne Tillman, and Fanny Howe Admission: $5 Great deals on: subscriptions and books, plus a raffle of a few very desirable items Bowery Poetry Club 30 Bowery (at Bleecker, across from CBGB) New York City A note to our subscribers and contributors: Fence 10, unbeknownst to us until recently, has been held up in the mailing house. It will mail out to all of y'all this week. We apologize for the delay and appreciate your patience. ********** Rebecca Wolff Fence et al. 14 Fifth Avenue, #1A New York, NY 10011 http://www.fencemag.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:18:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: Re: Whittaker Chambers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The news I have from a friend who lived there was that Whittaker Chambers came in the 1950s to live in County Caledonia in Vermont, in a little hamlet called Peacham, to write his memoirs. Are memoirs Objectivist? Peacham is just across the Connecticut River from Bethlehem, New Hampshire - "Poetry Capital of the USA" it says on its outskirts - home of one of the many Frost Places, and home also to Franconia College, where, in a slightly related story from thirty-odd years ago, Louis Zukofsky read, splendidly it is said, despite having lost his dentures the night before, somewhere at his hotel. Cat >From: Stephen Vincent >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Whittaker Chambers >Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:29:15 -0800 > >Jesse, I believe local Carroll County folklore has it that - at least in >October of each year - an apparition of Alger Hiss would appear over >Whitaker's Pumpkin patch, the annual sight of which practically spooked him >to death. Enraged he apparently would call the FBI and various US Senate >Committees to investigate the patch. However, none of his former "ears" and >allies, neither Senate Committees, not even Richard Nixon himself, wanted >to >come out an be caught looking for Hiss' spook among the pumpkins, which >always seemed larger than any others grown in the Valley. >But being a local and privy to such stories, I can understand the >Whittaker-Hiss confusion. Whitaker's vulnerability to apparitions, by the >way, permanently dismissed him from any credible association with the >Objectivists. > >Stephen Vincent > >on 11/14/02 6:21 PM, jesse glass at ahadada@GOL.COM wrote: > > > Half-way to work the name came to me. This was the Objectivist poet I >was > > talking about. He owned the pumpkin patch in Carroll County, Maryland >in > > Bachman's Valley, a place I haven't seen in over five years. Jess _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:32:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: rhode island notebook 9.27.02--9.29.02 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:00 PM 11/14/2002 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrote: >This is absolutely terrific; it reminds me of a nonstop 25-hour drive I >did between Dallas and Los Angeles - and I love the constant signpostings >of time and space and musings and the short/curtailed structure as if it's >the result of dictation or fly-by-day-or-night signage high-speed coasting >& it's the vector alone that makes this country, you're always x-ing fron- >tiers one way or the other or both, this one loops & great writing - Alan Thanks Alan. Dallas to LA sounds harsh and beautiful. Knock wood, may none of us die on the road. - g ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:48:06 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pam=20Brown?= Subject: Fwd: PAM BROWN BOOK LAUNCH Comments: To: alanj , alanw , alice , angelabennie , annag , annvickery , karen attard , austlit , barbara , beth , bob , brendanr , brian , carlp , carolynb , carolynv , chris emery , chrisk , christina thompson , christine , chriswc , coral , debra , denis , eileen , geraldg , gig , hazelsmith , heleng , michael Hurley , jan , jane , janeg , janngreg , jilljones , john , johnb , johnj , johns , julia , jvk , kate , Katef , katel , kieran , kornelia , kurt , landon , laurin , lee , lesley , leswicks , lidija , linden , louislouis , luke , lynmc , lynt , margot , mark , martinh , michele , mike , murraye , neela , ouyang , overland , Paul , pete , philhammial , philipm , philipn , philips , pkirkpatrick , poetsunion , rae , rene , rlo , ron , Ron Pretty , ruark , sal , sam , ska , steve evans , sue , suehampton , susans , sylvia , ted , tim , tomtom , veronica sumegi , virginia , xavi , zan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apologies for double or triple-ups. If you'll be in Sydney on Saturday December 7th you will be welcome. > From: ken bolton > Subject: PAM BROWN BOOK LAUNCH > Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:32:39 +1030 > > BOOK LAUNCH > > yes, and you're invited! > > Little Esther Books invites you > to join publisher Ken Bolton and poet Pam Brown > in celebrating Pam Brown's new book *Text thing* > > a major collection of Brown's poems of the last five > years > it is, therefore, an event! > > Saturday December 7th > 5 for 5.30 pm > at Gleebooks > 49 Glebe Point Road, Glebe, Sydney > 02) 9660 2333 > > PAM BROWN - TEXT THING - Little Esther > > Little Esther Books are published by Feral, Boffin + > Distingué > PO Box 8091 Station Arcade > Adelaide SA 5000 > eafbooks@eaf.asn.au http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers - 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:08:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Alger Hiss Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a footgnote to Ron's informative post re the many( non) Objectivists: in 1962,my first year in grad school at Berkeley, Tom Parkinson assigned me to write a research paper on the Objectivists, of whom I had never heard. He suggested start by phoning Kenneth Rexroth, which I did. He told me : "In the first place, there was no such thing as an Objectivist movement. In the secon place, didn't belong to it." But then along came Oppen and Reznikoff, each, as I maybe imperfectly recall, published in part by New Directions; I think Mrs Degnan, or Oppen himself, bore some of the costs. Then, along came Rakosi, unearthed by Andrew Crozier. I had read some of his early work in journals in the U.C. library. He did several very good parodies of Wallace Stevens back then. But Stevens could never have written a Rakosi poem. David.. -----Original Message----- From: Ron To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:40 AM Subject: Alger Hiss >Jesse Glass has conflated history a little here in stating that Alger >Hiss was an Objectivist. > > > >It was Whittaker Chambers, Zukofsky's college roommate, who published in >the Objectivist issue of Poetry. Whether that makes him an Objectivist >or not, is your call. Other participants in that issue who have not gone >on to be called Objectivists would include Ted Hecht, Robert McAlmon, >Kenneth Rexroth, Howard Weeks, Norman Macleod, Henry Roskolenkier, Henry >Zolinsky, Jesse Lowenthal, John Wheelwright, Richard Johns, Martha >Champion, William Carlos Williams (tho he is sometimes treated as the >kindly uncle of the Objectivists) and Joyce Hopkins. > > > >Hopkins contributed what may have been Poetry magazine's first one-line >poem, entitled "University: Old-Time": > >Dis in napa now trailing the sterilized. > > > >That may be a reference to Napa State Hospital in California, even then >a locked psychiatric facility. > > > >Chambers went on to become the editor of Time Magazine & was later >involved in a plot to smuggle atomic records. Chambers broke with the >Communist Party & infamously became an informant. Chambers fingered >Hiss, an important second-tier government figure, as his source. > > > >More interesting in this regard might be the decision of the Oppens to >leave the U.S. & go into exile in Mexico within 24 hours of the arrest >of Julius & Ethel Rosenberg. Had George's sister, June Oppen Degnan, not >been so well connected in the Democratic Party, they might have remained >in Mexico well beyond 1959. > > > >I recall that when Jimmy Carter asked Fritz Mondale to be his >vice-presidential running mate, Mondale called Degnan - a key fundraiser >for the Dems - before he called his own family. > > > >Ron > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:22:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Editorial Staff Subject: U B U W E B :: presents :: A S P E N _ M A G A Z I N E Comments: To: rumori@detritus.net, audiofix , silence , soundpoetry , ubuweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry for the cross-postings. Please forward to all. __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com In coordination with Andrew Stafford, UbuWeb is pleased to present the complete contents of issues 1-9 of Aspen Magazine. Apsen, a multimedia magazine of the arts was originally published from 1957 to 1971. Each issue of Aspen was delivered to the subscribers in a box, which contained a variety of media: printed matter in different formats, phonograph recordings, and reels of Super-8 film. Stafford has remediated the contents for the web, using RealAudio, QuickTime movies, Flash, MP3s, etc. Comprising nearly 400 artists, UbuWeb's acquisition of Aspen Magazine increases UbuWeb's content base by almost a third. The site contains a vast number of rare MP3s of Aspen's sound works including artists such as Yoko Ono, Marcel Duchamp, Merce Cunningham, John Cage, The Velvet Underground, William S. Burroughs, La Monte Young, etc. The film section contains works by Robert Rauschenberg, Hans Richter, Laszlo Moholy-Nagy, Robert Morris, and Stan VanDerBeek. A complete index follows. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASPEN MAGAZINE - Index of Artists & Authors Alpert, Richard, LSD and the Art of Conscious Living Amaya, Mario, Editor of Aspen no. 7 The "London" Decade Angotti, Tony, Designer of Aspen no. 2 Anonymous, Farewell to a Canyon Slum Goddess, from The East Village Other What Is Joint Art, from The LA Free Press Note on "Monkeys and Bamboo Grove" Note on "Waves" Note on "Tagasode" Noh and Kyogen Plays Antin, David, In Place of a Lecture: Three Musics for Two Voices Biographical Note Antin, Eleanor, In Place of a Lecture: Three Musics for Two Voices Atkinson, Terry, Hot/Cold Book Biographical Note Atwell, Allen, On "Clearing Autumn Skies Over Mountains and Valleys" On a Tibetan hanging scroll Collection of Indian Miniature Paintings Auran, John Henry, Ski-Roaming, Lift-Shunning, Mountain-Touring Baer, Jo, Art & Vision: Mach Bands Biographical Note Baker, Carroll, It's Not All Bright Lights and Fan Clubs Baker, Richard, Director, Berkeley Conference on LSD Baldwin, Michael, Hot/Cold Book Biographical Note Ballard, J. G., Crash (excerpt) Barron, Frank, Stability and Change in Human Intelligence and Consciousness Barthes, Roland, The Death of the Author Bazelton, David T., The Old Question Beckett, Samuel, Audio: Text for Nothing #8, read by Jack MacGowen Benedikt, Michael, Translator of Repair by Michael Butor Bill Evans Trio, Audio: Israel Blake, Peter (architect), Lausanne 1964 Exposition — An Experiment in Planning Blake, Peter (artist), Souvenir no. 1 Souvenir no. 2 Blue, James, The Role of the Audience Blum, Richard, Users and Abusers of LSD Blumofe, Richard, The View from the Front Office Bochner, Mel, Seven Translucent Tiers Bode, Sigmund, Placement as Language Bowers, Faubion, Scriabin: Again and Again Audio: Introduction to Scriabin's Preludes Audio: Afterword to Scriabin's Preludes Audio: Introduction to Scriabin's Tenth Sonata The Electronics of Music Bunker, Larry, Audio: Drums on Israel Burchard, John, It's Not What You Put In, But What You Leave Out Burroughs, William, Audio: "This, gentlemen, is a death dwarf..." from Nova Express Audio: "Mr. Bradley Mr. Martin..." from Nova Express Butor, Michael, Repair Cage, John, How to Improve the World (You Will Only Make Matters Worse) Audio: Fontana Mix – Feed, Nov. 6, 1967, realized by Max Neuhaus Score for Fontana Mix Cale, John, Audio: Loop Poetry Sheet Carroll, Tom, Photograph for Sentential Metaphrastic Chamberlain, Bob, The View from the Dance Floor Homeward Bound: The Rand House Photographs for The Braille Trail Introduction to Psycles Ching Ying, The Brush in the Idea and the Idea in the Brush Clark, Ossie, British Knickers Clifford, Peggy, A Sanctuary for Deer, Peacocks, and People: The Benedict House The Adaptable House: The Robert Murrays Cohen, Allen, Excerpt from an interview in the San Francisco Oracle Cohen, Harvey, Poetry Sheet Cohen, Ira, From "The Invasion of Thunderbolt Pagoda" Corwin, Norman, Crossroads: To Mold the Higher Taste or Pander to the Lowest Courtos, Tom, Designer of Aspen no. 1 Cunningham, Merce, Audio: Space, Time and Dance Audio: Further Thoughts Dalton, David, Designer, Aspen no.3 Art director, Aspen no. 5+6 Davidovsky, Mario, Audio: In Memoriam Edgar Varèse De Kooning, William, Comment on Woman De Sayles, Aymon, Musical Scores and Glyphs Devore, Bill, From "The Invasion of Thunderbolt Pagoda" Drexler, Arthur, The New Scale Duchamp, Marcel, Audio: The Creative Act Audio: Some Texts from A L'Infinitif Dunn, Monty, Audio: Drums on White Wind Etter, Alfred, The Braille Trail Evans, Bill, Audio: Piano on Israel Field, Morey, Audio: Drums on St. James Infirmary Blues Feldman, Morton, Audio: The King of Denmark, realized by Max Neuhaus Score for The King of Denmark Finch, Christopher, Communicators Finlay, Ian Hamilton, Wave/Rock Finn, David, The New Motivations of Leadership in Industry Fiore, Quentin, Designer of Aspen no. 4 The Medium is the Massage Fisher, Freddie, In Praise of Dixieland Friedman, Benno, Benno Friedman's Westerns Frosch, William, Adverse Reactions to LSD Furnival, John, Europa and Her Bull Gabo, Naum, Audio: The Realistic Manifesto Garfein, Jack, One Needs a Poet Gassan, Arnold, Photos for The Young Outs vs. The Establishment Gauba, Tony, The Hide-and-Seek Bird of the Timberline Ginsberg, Allen, On political action, from The East Village Other Glass, Philip, 1 + 1 for One Player and Amplified Table-Top Biographical Note Glueck, Grace, New Mix for New Mex Graham, Dan, Editor of Aspen no. 8 Editorial Note on Aspen no. 8 Poem, March 1966 Biographical Note Grand, Nikki, Poetry Sheet Harner, Michael, The Role of Psychedelics in Shamanism, Witchcraft, and the Vision Quest Hansen, Al, Viking Dada Hasegawa, Tokaku, Monkeys and Bamboo Grove Hauser, Philip M., Implications of Population Changes Hayes, Clancy, Audio: Vocals on St. James Infirmary Blues Hendricks, Bici, Deteriorations Hendricks, Geoff, Sky/Change: Notes on a projected sky environment Hendricks, Jon (artist), Editor of Aspen no. 6A Some Notes on Aspen no. 6A Hendricks, Jon (musician), In Defense of Latter-Day Jazz Higgins, Denis, Ski-Roaming, Lift-Shunning, Mountain-Touring Hinman, Charles, Comment on Vertical Waves Hirsin, Stanley, If We Have to Bury You Hockney, David, Notes on Rumpelstiltsken Hoffer, Abram, LSD Therapy of Alcoholism Howard, Richard, Translator of Jealousy by Alain Robbe-Grillet Translator of The Death of the Author by Roland Barthes Huai-su, Calligraphy from "Autobiographical Essay" Hucko, Peanuts, Audio: Clarinet on St. James Infirmary Blues Huelsenbeck, Richard, Audio: Four Poems from Phantastiche Gebete Iimura, Takahiko, Program Notes for "Soft Transformations" The Diagram of Projection of White Calligraphy Instone, Michael, London Subcultures Ishmael, Dropper, Excerpt from an article in Inner Space Israels, Chuck, Audio: Bass on Israel In Explanation of All Jazz Jacobs, Ken, Descriptive letter of our summer in Easthampton Program Notes for "Soft Transformations" Johns, Jasper, Comment on Black Map Kaprow, Allan, Push and Pull: A Furniture Comedy for Hans Hoffman Kast, Eric, LSD and the Dying Patient Kirk, Frank, Designer of Aspen no. 2 Knight, Arthur, Renascence in a Youthful Medium Korin, Ogata, Waves Kosh, John, Designer of Aspen no. 7 Kubler, George, Style and the Representation of Historical Time Kunin, Daniel, Solo piano, Works by Alexander Scriabin The Electronics of Music Kuo Hsi, Clearing Autumn Skies Over Mountains and Valleys Laing, Gerald, Comment on AA-D Lawson, Yank, Audio: Trumpet on St. James Infirmary Blues Leary, Timothy, The Molecular Revolution Lee, Paul, The Myth About Psychedelic Drugs Lennon, John, The Lennon Diary 1969 Audio: No Bed for Beatle John, with Yoko Ono Audio: Radio Play Letterman, Lynn, Art director, Aspen no. 5+6 Lewis, Bob, The Braille Trail LeWitt, Sol, Serial Project #1 Lichtenstein, Roy, Comment on Varoom Lionni, Paolo, Poetry Sheet Logue, Christopher, Audio: "This is the final statement..." from New Numbers Audio: "A policeman is walking..." from New Numbers Audio: "He was a youth from the suburbs..." from New Numbers Lohman, Joseph D., LSD: Implications for Law Enforcement Lois, George, Designer, Aspen no. 1 Longhorne, Bruce, Audio: Bass tambourine on White Wind Lucie-Smith, Edward, British Poetry Now Lyrics for Three Songs for Surrealists Lukeman, Alex, Audio: Twelve-string drone on White Wind Luray, Martin, Ski Racing: Edging the Possible Lynch, Rev. William F, The Human Imagination in the New Age Lyon, Danny, Excerpts from The Bikeriders MacAgy, Douglas, The Russian Desert: A Note on Our State of Knowledge MacCann, Richard Dyer, The Frontiers of Film McGarrity, Lou, Audio: Bass on St. James Infirmary Blues MacGowan, Jack, Audio: Samuel Beckett's "Text for Nothing #8 Maciunas, George, Designer, Aspen. no. 8 Biographical Note MacLise, Angus, Editor, Aspen. no. 9 Audio: Drums on The Joyous Lake MacLise, Hetty, Editor, Aspen. no. 9 Designer, folder for Aspen no. 9 Audio: Organ on The Joyous Lake MacLow, Jackson, Audio: The Young Turtle Assymetries Description of The Young Turtle Assymetries Biographical Note McLuhan, Marshall, The Medium is the Massage Malanga, Gerard, Hustling for Army Health Razor Blades & Bomb Drop Yuk Yuk Poetry Sheet Mann, Abby, Advice from Abby Marie-Saint, Eva, Feeling Guilty at Times Maysles, Albert & David, The Maysles Method Mekas, Jonas, The Terror and Desperation of "Chelsea Girls" Is a Holy Terror Meninger, Dr. Karl, Rx — Go See a movie Metzner, Kenneth, Photographs for Thou Art That Millet, Kate, No Milmoe, Jim, Photos for Configurations of the New World Photographs of The Braille Trail Moholy-Nagy, Laszlo, Lightplay: Black-White-Grey (excerpt) Moorman, Charlotte, Program Notes for "Soft Transformations" Morris, Robert, Site (excerpt) Los Angeles Project Biographical Note Mumma, Gordon, Audio: Horn Naranjo, Claudio, Therapeutic Uses of Ibogaine Nelson, George, & Co., "U.S. — Us" Neuhaus, Max, The King of Denmark by Morton Feldman Fontana Mix – Feed by John Cage Noland, Kenneth, Comment on Mach II O'Doherty, Brian, Designer, Aspen no. 5+6 Structural Play #3 Oberhaus, Patricia, Bobby, and Barbie and Ken in the Cat's Pink Mouth Oldenburg, Claes, Comment on Ghost Telephone Ono, Yoko, Audio: Song for John: Let's Go Flying Audio: Song for John: Snow Is Falling Everywhere Audio: Song for John: Mum's Only Looking for Her Hand in the Snow Audio: No Bed for Beatle John, with John Lennon Lyrics Oppenheim, Dennis, Cancelled Crop Forest Project Notes on Ecologic Projects Biographical Note Ortiz, Ralph, Designer, envelope for Aspen no. 6A Destruction Theater Manifesto Osborn, Robert, The Task of All of Us Paik, Nam June, Program Notes for "Soft Transformations" Paolozzi, Eduardo, The Gay Atomic Coloring Book Pevsner, Noton, Audio: The Realistic Manifesto, read by Naum Gabo Picard, Lil, Peace Object Poons, Larry, Comment on Reuben (As the Mississippi Flows Down to the Sea) Powers, Thomas, Comments on Twelve Paintings from the Powers' Collection Rainer, Yvonne, Three Distributions Biographical Note Rauschenberg, Robert, Linoleum (excerpt) Rouse, James W., Columbia — A Garden to Grow People Reed, Lou, The View from the Bandstand Reich, Steve, Pendulum Music Biographical Note Renoir, Jean, How Do You Say "I Love You" Richter, Hans, Rhythm 21 Riley, Bridget, Comment on Intake Riley, Terry, Keyboard Study #2 Robbe-Grillet, Alain, Audio: Jealousy (excerpt) Translation of Jealousy (excerpt) Robinson, David, New Names in British Cinema Rochlin, Diane, Photos accompanying Letter to Diane and Shelley from Vali Rose, Steve, Heavy Yoga Rosenquist, James, Comment on Lanai Philip Rosenthal, The Interrelationships between Ethics and Power in Design Rowan, Jan C., The Victory of Technique over Content Ruscha, Edward, Parking Lot Biographical Note Samyana, Raja, Audio: Drums on The Joyous Lake Schapiro, Steve, Photo for The TV Generation Schneeman, Carolee, Divisions and Rubble Scriabin, Alexander, Audio: Prelude E Major, Op. 11, No. 9. Daniel Kunin, pianist. Audio: Prelude G Flat Major, Op. 11, No. 13. Daniel Kunin, pianist. Audio: Prelude D Flat Major, Op. 11, No. 15. Daniel Kunin, pianist. Audio: Tenth Sonata. Daniel Kunin, pianist. Serra, Richard, Lead Shot Biographical Note Shelton, Robert, The View from the Critic's Desk Sinoto, Nori, Designer, box for Aspen no. 10 Siren, Osvald, On "A Mountain Village in Clearing Mist" Smith, Huston, The Significance of Artificially Induced Religious Experience Smith, Jack, Buzzards Over Bagdad Flipbook Smith, John Macauley, Photos for The Adaptable House Smith, Robert, Designer, box for Aspen no. 7 Smith, Tony, Drawings for The Maze Model of The Maze, part 1 Model of The Maze, part 2 Model of The Maze, part 3 Model of The Maze, part 4 Model of The Maze, part 5 Model of The Maze, part 6 Model of The Maze, part 7 Model of The Maze, part 8 Smithson, Robert, Strata a Geophotographic Fiction Biographical Note Snyder, Don, Dream of Goeralegan Lumagraphs Snyder, Gary, First Time Round Sontag, Susan, The Aesthetics of Silence Standlee, Elsen, Audio: Flute on The Joyous Lake Stein, Lou, Audio: Piano on St. James Infirmary Blues Sung Hui-tsung, Calligraphy from "Poem" Tavel, Ronald, Ron Tavel on The Silver Scum Tavener, John, Audio: Three Songs for Surrealists: For Rene Magritte Audio: Three Songs for Surrealists: For Max Ernst Audio: Three Songs for Surrealists: For Salvador Dali Theobald, Robert G. W, New Technologies and Institutional Change Thomas, Michael, On "Thou Art That" Thomas, Timothy, The Hide-and-Seek Bird of the Timberline Toche, Jean, Labyrinths and Psychological Stress Tokaku, Hosegawa, Monkeys and Bamboo Grove Tree, Christopher, Audio: Spontaneous Sound Trilling, Lionel, Film: The Andromeda of the Arts Trova, Ernest, Comment on Wheel Men Tung Ch'i-ch'ang, Treatise on Understanding Tuzzo, Ralph, Designer, Aspen no. 1 Udall, Stuart L, The New Conservation Can Succeed USCO, We Are All One Vali, Letter to Diane and Shelley from Vali VanDerBeek, Stan, Site (excerpt) Velvet Underground, Audio: Loop Von Eckartsberg, Rolf, A Descriptive Approach to the Psychedelic Experience Wachsmann, Konrad, To Build Is Everything or Nothing Is Built Walker, Peter, Audio: Guitar on White Wind Warhol, Andy, Designer, Aspen no. 3 Comment on 200 Campbell Soup Cans Kiss Flipbook Wen Cheng-min, Calligraphy from "The Ten Thousand Character Essay" Wilbourn, Dale, Triptych Wilcock, John, EVO Freakout Wohl, Martin, Urban Transportation in Perspective Yalkut, Jud, Program Notes for "Soft Transformations" Ying Yu-Chien, A Mountain Village in Clearing Mist Young, La Monte, Audio: Drift Study 31 1 69 Notes on Continuous Periodic Composite Sound Waveform Environment Realizations Dream Music Biographical Note Zazeela, Marian, The Soul of the Word Zimmer, P., Photo for Poetry Sheet Ziprin, Lionel, Sentential Metaphrastic Ziska, Audio: Voice on The Joyous Lake Index of Audio exhibits (Any mp3 player or Real Player required) Beckett, Samuel, Text for Nothing #8, read by Jack MacGowen Bill Evans Trio, Israel Bowers, Faubion, On Alexander Scrabin: Introduction to Three Preludes On Alexander Scrabin: Afterword to Three Preludes On Alexander Scrabin: Introduction to the Tenth Sonata Burroughs, William, Nova Express: "This, gentlemen, is a death dwarf..." Nova Express: "Mr. Bradley Mr. Martin..." Cage, John, Fontana Mix – Feed, Nov. 6, 1967 Cale, John, Loop Cunningham, Merce, Space, Time and Dance Further Thoughts Davidovsky, Mario, In Memoriam Edgar Varèse Duchamp, Marcel, The Creative Act Some Texts from A L'Infinitif Feldman, Morton, The King of Denmark Gabo, Naum, The Realistic Manifesto Hucko, Peanuts and others, St. James Infirmary Blues Huelsenbeck, Richard, Four Poems from Phantastiche Gebete Lennon, John, Radio Play Logue, Christopher, New Numbers: "This is the final statement..." New Numbers: "A policeman is walking..." New Numbers: "He was a youth from the suburbs..." MacLow, Jackson, The Young Turtle Assymetries Mumma, Gordon, Horn Ono, Yoko, Song for John: Let's Go Flying Song for John: Snow Is Falling Everywhere Song for John: Mum's Only Looking for Her Hand in the Snow No Bed for Beatle John, with John Lennon Robbe-Grillet, Alain, Jealousy (excerpt) Scriabin, Alexander, Prelude E Major, Op. 11, No. 9 Prelude G Flat Major, Op. 11, No. 13 Prelude D Flat Major, Op. 11, No. 15 Tenth Sonata Standlee, Elsen and others, The Joyous Lake Tavener, John, Three Songs for Surrealists: For Rene Magritte Three Songs for Surrealists: For Max Ernst Three Songs for Surrealists: For Salvador Dali Tree, Christopher, Spontaneous Sound Walker, Peter and others, White Wind Young, La Monte, Drift Study 31 1 69 Index of Movie exhibits QuickTime or RealPlayer G2 required Moholy-Nagy, Laszlo, Lightplay: Black-White-Grey (excerpt) Morris, Robert & VanDerBeek, Stan, Site (excerpt) Rauschenberg, Robert, Linoleum (excerpt) Richter, Hans, Rhythm 21 Index of Interactive exhibits Bochner, Mel, Seven Translucent Tiers. Flash plug-in required Cage, John, Score for Fontana Mix. Flash plug-in required Lennon, John, The Lennon Diary 1969. JavaScript-savvy browser required Jack Smith / Andy Warhol, Underground movie Flipbook. JavaScript-savvy browser required Smith, Tony, Model of "The Maze". QuickTime required Index of Advertisements August 1966, Advertisement for Aspen no. 1 April 1967, Advertisement for Aspen no. 3 August 1967, Advertisement for Aspen no. 4 April 1968, Advertisement for Aspen no. 5+6 September 1968, Advertisement concurrent with Aspen no. 6A March 1970, Advertisement for Aspen no. 7 Jan 1971, Advertisement for Aspen no. 9 - ASPEN MAGAZINE __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:46:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Alger Hiss In-Reply-To: <005401c28c3b$33929a00$f496ccd1@CeceliaBelle> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Actually the Oppen title was a co-publication with New Directions. Degan's co-imprint was called The San Francisco Review (I believe) at least something with "San Francisco" in it. The real mystery to me would be why it came out as a co-pub. Either it was because Mrs. Degan (and it was her money) was not going to let ND take all the pub glory if ND was not going to put up the money to do the books. One must ask why J Laughlin distanced ND from the project - preferring a co-pub - and would not pay the whole bill. I suspect it was not because he was broke. Was it because he viewed Oppen and Reznikoff as wayward children of Pound that had to be put in a compromised box (i.e. pay their own way)? At best a sympathy vote from ND with no associated costs. Anybody have the real story? Of course someone will ask if we are back into Semitic issues. Stephen Vincent on 11/14/02 4:08 PM, dcmb at dcmb@SONIC.NET wrote: > As a footgnote to Ron's informative post re the many( non) Objectivists: in > 1962,my first year in grad school at Berkeley, Tom Parkinson assigned me to > write a research paper on the Objectivists, of whom I had never heard. He > suggested start by phoning Kenneth Rexroth, which I did. He told me : "In > the first place, there was no such thing as an Objectivist movement. In the > secon place, didn't belong to it." > > But then along came Oppen and Reznikoff, each, as I maybe imperfectly > recall, published in part by New Directions; I think Mrs Degnan, or Oppen > himself, bore some of the costs. > > Then, along came Rakosi, unearthed by Andrew Crozier. I had read some of his > early work in journals in the U.C. library. He did several very good > parodies of Wallace Stevens back then. But Stevens could never have written > a Rakosi poem. > > David.. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:40 AM > Subject: Alger Hiss > > >> Jesse Glass has conflated history a little here in stating that Alger >> Hiss was an Objectivist. >> >> >> >> It was Whittaker Chambers, Zukofsky's college roommate, who published in >> the Objectivist issue of Poetry. Whether that makes him an Objectivist >> or not, is your call. Other participants in that issue who have not gone >> on to be called Objectivists would include Ted Hecht, Robert McAlmon, >> Kenneth Rexroth, Howard Weeks, Norman Macleod, Henry Roskolenkier, Henry >> Zolinsky, Jesse Lowenthal, John Wheelwright, Richard Johns, Martha >> Champion, William Carlos Williams (tho he is sometimes treated as the >> kindly uncle of the Objectivists) and Joyce Hopkins. >> >> >> >> Hopkins contributed what may have been Poetry magazine's first one-line >> poem, entitled "University: Old-Time": >> >> Dis in napa now trailing the sterilized. >> >> >> >> That may be a reference to Napa State Hospital in California, even then >> a locked psychiatric facility. >> >> >> >> Chambers went on to become the editor of Time Magazine & was later >> involved in a plot to smuggle atomic records. Chambers broke with the >> Communist Party & infamously became an informant. Chambers fingered >> Hiss, an important second-tier government figure, as his source. >> >> >> >> More interesting in this regard might be the decision of the Oppens to >> leave the U.S. & go into exile in Mexico within 24 hours of the arrest >> of Julius & Ethel Rosenberg. Had George's sister, June Oppen Degnan, not >> been so well connected in the Democratic Party, they might have remained >> in Mexico well beyond 1959. >> >> >> >> I recall that when Jimmy Carter asked Fritz Mondale to be his >> vice-presidential running mate, Mondale called Degnan - a key fundraiser >> for the Dems - before he called his own family. >> >> >> >> Ron >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:44:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Holsapple Subject: Re: figures of speech reference? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Rogers, The Dictionary of Cliches, Ballantine Books 1985. William and Mary Morris, Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins, Harper Collins 1988. Ebenezer Brewer, Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, Harper and Row, 1970. Robert Hendickson, Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, Facts On File 1997. None of these is definitive. BH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:11:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Poetry the Configuration of Lies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Poetry the Configuration of Lies the sentiments in poetry are surely never meant to be taken at face value, how shall i love thee, i'm heading towards armageddon, i think that i shall never see, even language poetry is guilty of phrasing whose meaning cannot ever be taken literally or performatively. so what you say. i say that by its very deflection into the niceties of language, poetry lies, largely through hyperbole, or the placings of hypotheticals where none are warranted. poetry is our great escape; we use it to express what-if worlds without building all of their contents, piece by piece as in the novel - the bridging effects of the language suture over any anomalies. it does leave a distaste in the mouth; people rarely read poetry because the lies are caught out, and the descent into language is just too problematic or exhausting. isn't it enough we use language all the time, without having to examine very word of it, over and over again? and every poem is guilty, surely, of this, every poem has its moments of fascination with fictions that are never revealed as such. "O ever present in my view! My wafted spirit is with you, And soothes your boding fears: I see you all oppressed with gloom Sit lonely in that cheerless room-- Ah me! You are in tears!" (S.T.C) if ever present, then his sight is clouded, like a speck in the eye or detached retina. has he lost his spirit? is it always bothering here? is she completely and always oppressed? when did this happen? lies, all lies, but a pretty conceit nonetheless. and hardly think for a moment the exemptness of contemporary poetry. it suffers under the weight of false performance. nothing happens. nothing has happened. better an engineering drawing that is translated more or less one on one to the reality of the concrete. poetry reduces our morals, can present nothing but false sentiments, remains a disease which infiltrates our body politic. Plato was right, but not by virtue of the Dionysian; it's the Apollonian semblance of truth that decays from within. better to live in an emotional world of speaking and writing which insists on nothing but confusion, fuzzy boundaries, and exhilarating thought, the world of the short story or fantasy, clearly demarcated as such, even the world of the docudrama and its other trans- genre equivalents. poetry allows anyone to say anything and get away with anything; if it were not for poetry, Coleridge would be exposed for the stalker he clearly is. thus poetry is a configuration of lies, and should be ignored by all prac- tical people, which is basically all of us who live in this world, and have not yet gone to the next. === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:29:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Spiral Bridge Subject: November Readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spiral Bridge Poetry Readings for November -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- 1. Friday, Nov. 22 The Puffin Reading 2. Sunday, Nov. 24 The Naked Readings =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Birds of a Feather Flock Together on The Witness Tree=20 Friday, November 22nd 8pm Spiral Bridge and The Puffin Cultural Forum invite you to attend a = poetic arts performance followed by an open mic. on Friday, November 22, = 2002 at 8:00 p.m.=20 The Puffin Cultural Forum for arts, theater, music and dialogue has = honored us with an invitation to present our words, ideas and new sound = project to an appreciative audience in an extraordinary setting as part = of the Witness Tree Poetry Series.=20 Followed by an open mic.=20 $5 door donation=20 Please view the web site for directions and other events. The Puffin Cultural Arts Forum 20 East Oakdene Avenue Teaneck, NJ 201. 836.8923=20 8pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- The Naked Readings Sunday, Nov. 24th 6pm - Midnight FREE Open Mic. (but might we suggest a greatly appreciated $5 donation) Almost Famous Local Poets Reading Original Material Sandwiched Between = Two Great Slices of Live Music. Bloomfield Ave. Caf=E9 & Stage 347 Bloomfield Ave. Montclair, NJ=20 Sunday Nov. 24th, 2002 6pm-Midnight -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Spiral Bridge Writers Guild is an independent, non-profit, poetry = organization founded by a group of young, enthusiastic poets from New = Jersey. We have united our words and spirits in a venture involving = artistic innovation, awareness and expression. We believe in the power = of poetry to transform human experience into Art. We are committed to = increasing the awareness of that power and developing the artistic = potential of all human beings. As we promote and share the spoken word = as a living art form, we are continuing the oral tradition of poetry by = providing a platform for humanity to hear its own voice.=20 www.spiralbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:21:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Garrett Kalleberg Subject: Kalleberg + MacLeod + Ramsdell = New Theater Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Writers Garrett Kalleberg and Heather Ramsdell and director Ted MacLeod - Brooklyn Drama Club - announce the new theatrical work THE SITUATION ROOM http://www.brooklyndramaclub.org premiering December 5, 2002 at Collective Unconscious "ACTION: Attach incendiary devices to bats and drop them over training centers. Bats retire during daylight. Incendiaries ignite by timers and start fires." - from a declassified CIA memo, February 14, 1963 Tickets for The Situation Room are on sale now at SmartTix - https://www.smarttix.com/tix/shows/showpage.cfm?ShowCode=SIT68&EventType=Show&RequestTimeOut=500 212 206-1515 THE SITUATION ROOM By Garrett Kalleberg, with Ted MacLeod and Heather Ramsdell Executive Director: Garrett Kalleberg Producer: Patrick Daniels Director: Ted MacLeod Art Director: Heather Ramsdell Video Designer: Daniel Vatsky Associate Producer: Lindsay Bowen Featuring: Chris Cantwell,* Patrick Daniels, Juliet Furness, Melissa Picarello, Bristol Pomeroy, & Bill Weylock* *appears courtesy Actor's Equity Thursday, December 5 - 8 PM Friday, December 6 - 8 PM Saturday, December 7 - 8 PM Sunday, December 9 - 8 PM Thursday, December 12 - 8 PM Friday, December 13 - 8 PM Saturday, December 14 - 8 PM Sunday, December 15 - 8 PM Collective Unconscious 145 Ludlow St. (between Stanton & Rivington) New York, NY -- Garrett Kalleberg mailto:tf@morningred.com The Transcendental Friend can be found at: http://www.morningred.com/friend Immanent Audio Online at: http://www.morningred.com/immanentaudio ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:30:44 -0800 Reply-To: solipsis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: solipsis Subject: Les Atomes non crochus, 1967 (sam old say mold) Comments: To: WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les Atomes non crochus, 1967 (sam old say mold) i don't live with the inka essenhigh book anymore.. you sleep naked on a turtle's back at the edge of rivers oceans ponds, = an endless series out into the night how many languages, bodies of water, forced to chant them for that a castle of trees you fist the giant slug in its secret grotto feeling the yellow halos of its genital torsion belt=20 score your rubber-nibbed forearm and clench sensing its abandon, you pull it from the knot-hole and toss it down into the clockwork shredding of history a bed of leaves for a flesh of iridescent foam it builds up a simple decoration a window lattice=20 symmetrical shudders in blind hierarchical arrangements discrete historical units baybayin stacked in the drool closet lifts a draping houl from the doorway perfect ways to do nothing at all nothing stands before the mirror then tries a stable window lattice mosquito larva hover along its noisy alley you might endlessly display my face as a volume of nits i choose a t-shirt, Marcel Marien and find some tea-leaves i shirk the duties staring at chunks of bread on the lawn the crows eyeing me vaguely brown mustard shapes on the curb dog ornaments, wolff dad suddenly the world is tiled, and smooth again the cool ceramic skin of abstraction, silly viagra, nosologia beep beep crisp rust rises as a failed blade of song then crumbles=20 god inside out it says shut away in this box i cannot beautiful child riding the manatee i cannot lay the clocks open to rage i cannot rate headscarring narwhal i cannot paste finality i cannot wage the pretty leprosy of insect mating Bull's Eggs yellow tires Satyr and Sartre converge on the soggy note stickmen dirt longboats lay shadows in the mighty moss Baby Islam Tea-Neck NJ what happens for the next hundred years red star of limonata junk yard plastic centaur radio stuck on moleskinned thighs Jamaica 1655 the innocence of powder monkeys perspektive cop cars Berry Stain Why Sousa _________________________________________________o oo ooooooooo oo ll __ () db wm mw HH ii o o o ll mm n o p p y bug-snatch=3Dbiznatch ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:22:47 -0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: Re. The Objectivists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There will be many posts on this, but a shorthand account of how the Objectivists got to be called the Objectivists is contained in my preface to Conviction's Net of Branches: Essays on the Objectivist Poets and Poetry (originally published by Sourthern Illinois UP in 1985, but now reissued as a Spuyten Duyvil book). There are others in L.S. Dembo's interview with LZ, in Kenner, in any number of books touching on the period. As to the story turnings mentioned in Ron's post and others. Chamber's brother, is the "Ricky" appearing in Zukofsky's "A"--see Mark Scroggins book, Louis Zukofsky and the Poetry of Knowledge, for more details on the 'scene.' And to complicate matters just a bit further, Milton Hindus, who wrote on and championed Reznikoff's work, had an essay in his Black Sparrow collection touching on Witness by W. Chambers. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:38:03 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: L.Z..objectivism... in the mid 70's i was an adjunct for a year at Brooklyn Poly (a math & engineering school) in Dowtown Bklyn....where L.Z. had spent most of his careet... the Eng. dept. was small and devoted to teaching the nerds a few of the smaller amenities of kultur...fresh eng...i asked the tenured fac. about L.Z...which just brought a bemused stare...the long suffering Secretary remembered him a bit and sd he had given her some of his books and also tried to reorganize the dept..i took out of the tiny tiny Lib. a number of the books L.Z. had donated to it..i was the first one.... the papers i got there were all Cliff Notes revisited...i got fired in Sept. of the next year for filing for unemployment during the summer...the nerds whom i didn't like but who didn't seem to mind me..le snobbisme revisted...went on to create a computer rev.. objectivism...realism...was L.Z. there or just the ghost of this list whist wish word popast...get with the program...drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:25:51 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: An Origami Frog Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An Origami Frog 1 redistribution of prayers spinning wheels spin the lucky number is=20 seven folds in a paper and another seven. Here: * an origami frog=20 * followed by six others=20 2 Rice paper intended effect=20 the contractual denomination the nether affairs of the heart of the matter but only a neck jerk reaction and one kneels to such effect twisted back towards the latticed window. Lights * black diamonds versus=20 white skin-tiles * flores para las muchachas 3 glass boxes and rip torn intent haunts=20 hunts senseless dragoons the snipe in overfed prayers for the little foxes=20 feed steeds and a deed of trust trussed like a plateful of * entrails of the whale. Jonah's wail * and more car worker than Carmen=20 * Bizet, buzz et al the otherans infinitum. 4 the egg-case of the shark is called the sea-purse full of gold and or silver chartered possibilities Polished escutcheon. Peep through the keyhole. * Scuppered in the flow, scuppered * salvage apparatus. Ready, dive! 5 raising the flag over the spicebush The henna blossoms in December remain visible, predict an encounter plentiful collisions and the meteors * Showers of dust, released particles 6 tiny, vaporise very high in the atmosphere. Heavy with violets for decades to come. And fleeting streaks of lightning settle back=20 * interact with the atmosphere. * A telescope might come in handy. 7 Gaudy nights and Darius, son of Hystaspes. Snap! The pirates and kings! The ladies held close to the belly. * Car worker or Carmen?=20 * Doesn't matter. Still sings. * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:56:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Sonnets Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I realize this thread's long been over, but I keep coming across books of sonnets that were not mentioned, so here are two more with one example from each: bacchae sonnets 1-7 by Armand Schwerner (pod books, 1977) bacchae sonnet number one first you burnt your hair, its spider filaments on a blind trip through your crown, branches short-circuit the gray pathways, if you burn it the hair won't cut the neurone repetitions, root in the nerves and eat, the hair is outside, you are the food, you will be the tent around your life, you will guard, you will make a sheaf like wheat and bind your hair with hair, you will pardon the world, leave no clippings for the enemy, who is outside, you are the food, this is a death you inflict, not accident, and a tent for comfort, within it you will practice judging your friends and will pardon the hornets and the zooming groundwasps, the diving whine after you around the garden shrine and you will offer up your children and their wild menacing hair Snoring In New York by Edwin Denby (Angel Hair/ Adventures In Poetry, 1974) Alex Katz paints his north window A bed and across the street, glare City day and I within know Like wide as high and hear as far New York School friends, you paint glory Itself crowding closer further Lose your marbles making it What's in a name- it regathers From within, a painting's silence Resplendent, the silent roommate Watch him, not a pet, long listen Before glory, the stone heartbeat When he's painted himself out of it DeKooning says his picture's finished ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:12:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Gunfire in my Poem Minus the streets and houses the Search is Coming up roses Amid much ado, I am thinking of you Jean Valentine, who I don't remember Meeting Or you Ms. Levertov, I hope Still somewhere Typing away The whole World's in my Lap today And the fishes of the Sea aren't happy About it Deny me reentry to the Buttons of pants While targets Get filled with the latest Leads Roundup the suspects who come to Mind from sketches and prose pieces No one wants to save Human nature Blank slates can be found By every Exit And who's to Say we've Got the Real Killers? Cover me as I roll past Bonfires on postcards and into the Furthest reaches of Dark ego in these Poems. We spend Rounds keeping track of Our vicious detractors Communicating with the specters Who inhabit Whiskey bottles Put out, whether vanilla or Red leather with all the comforts of homes forever on the Market _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:21:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "I wanted to be a Cowboy" Jump for joy if joy's Your thing or Kool it down to the pulse of Nothing special It takes you Over, the crush But it's virulent The irresistible future That possesses us All hands And feet Must follow the twostep of Roundup Lasso me to the Closest tree while Cowpokes assure themselves of their Awesome powers and On I also Wanted to be President but wasn't Sharp enough Too fool so many or deal w/ The consequences that ensue. I'm a selfish Guy, I fight the dumb battles to get myself Ahead But what's effective Now is the Slow reasons to follow, Gravity brings us A little too Close, bumping into the Nucleus, which, at dance Parties is a wild one that flirts even with chaperones pin me to a donkey or Mule whichever is vanishing quicker And needs the love _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:47:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Whyte Subject: Walking Tour: The Beats on the Lower East Side (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:45:28 -0600 From: Mickey Lauria Reply-To: H-NET Urban History Discussion List To: H-URBAN@H-NET.MSU.EDU Subject: Walking Tour: The Beats on the Lower East Side From: Andrew Berman Saturday, November 16th, 1:00 p.m. Walking Tour with David Carter and Bill Morgan The Beats on the Lower East Side $12 for members, $15 for non-members. To reserve a spot, please call 212/475-9585. Meeting at St. Mark's Church, 10th Street near 2nd Avenue. The Beats were an association of poets, novelists and musicians who, starting in the 1940's, sought a new way to see the world. Their quest for this new vision laid the groundwork for the cultural and artistic innovations of the 1960's. From early in their careers, the Beats lived and worked on the Lower East Side, and this tour will take you to the key locations associated with them. The tour will be led by two colleagues of Allen Ginsberg, Bill Morgan, Ginsberg's archivist and editor of Deliberate Prose, a collection of Ginsberg's essays, and David Carter, editor of Spontaneous Mind, Ginsberg's interviews. Andrew Berman Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:19:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Stefans, Brian" Subject: the most hideous thing you've ever seen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Well, here's version one of the flyer for the Mini Digital Poetry Festival on Nov. 23rd: http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm For more true to life information visit the Segue Website: www.segue.org/calendar/calendar_index.htm peache Brian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:06:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--November 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE Subway--N,R/Prince; C,E/Spring; 1,2/Canal November 16, 2002 Rogan Kelly, Maggie Nelson, Kathleen Ossip November 23, 2002 Aaron Belz, Rosalie Calabrese, Michael Howley, Deborah Reich, Helen Tzagaloff November 30, 2002 World AIDS Day Reading featuring Michael Broder, Steven Cordova, Patrick Donnelly, David Groff, Michael Klein, Daniel Nester, Amy Prince, Jason Schneiderman, and Richard Tayson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:40:20 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: SEGUE READING: Mini-Festival of Digital Poetry (and hideous poster) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm was created to announce: THE SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB Mini-Festival of (so-called*) Digital Poetry :::featuring performances and presentations by Angela Rawlings (Toronto): http://www.commutiny.net/ Patrick Herron (Chapel Hill): http://www.proximate.org Noah Wardrip-Fruin (New York): http://www.impermanenceagent.com Paul Chan (New York): http://nationalphilistine.com/alternumerics/ Aya Karpinska (New York): http://www.nomadnet.org/audiophfile4/Aya/aya.htm Loss Pequeno Glazier (Buffalo): http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/glazier/ The Prize Budget for Boys (Toronto) who are: Neil Hennessy (The Jabber Engine and Basho's Frogger, at http://www.ubu.com), Jason Le Heup & Ian Hooper :::and? AND there will be a panel discussion afterwards immoderated by Brian Kim Stefans (curator and organizer) AND it's 2-fer-1 drinks and it's not shameful to start at 4pm for a poet/poetry goer AND you may know what they've done online but we guarantee that the presence/performance/presentation will be entirely new (to you) AND there's a rumor the legendary Toronto sound poetry group The Four Horsemen may perform! (http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf) :::where? 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON :::when? SATURDAY FROM 4 - 7 PM :::and what, pray tell, does it cost? $5 admission goes to support the readers all of this information is repeated on the THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm I hope you can make it -- should be fun, an eye opener, and bring your questions! * The use of the phrase "so-called" prior to an aesthetic categorization is an old experimental poetry tradition; please disregard if it causes you unusual discomfort. ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:05:25 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: atoms: Hot plasma soup Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable atoms: Hot plasma soup You will only ever see=20 the bright ones molten drops of rock in the impact excrescences=20 we call volcanoes * the earth's fair skin: black snow & dust showers rarities wrap them up warmly * apropos=20 named Nyoe for the power of kings. Of kings. * view as much=20 and/of the sky=20 is always=20 ever possible trails your eyes=20 move east=20 * never in any one place * High voltage!=20 Take your precautions!=20 Move! Move! Move! * exotic particles stream * hot plasma soup to surprise all the patterns * orientation of planes distorted through grains * Collision!=20 They had been shocked.=20 Shocked debris. * fundamental forces flare and Heligoland sinks, submerged intention sheds light. sheds forces despite=20 Glares at the guests! Particles stream from hot plasma soup. the core of the=20 hottest star * unmatched * after the big bang. found, in part, in Space Update from CNN.com 15/11/02 & First UK Impact = Layer discovered 15/11/02 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:37:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: ACMEISM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed SEARCHED THE WEB FOR OUR NATIVE EARTH "The only sites under consideration for either interim or permanent storage of high level nuclear waste are sites on Indian land. Four different remotely situated Native communities are slated to be nuclear waste dumps for US and Canadian utilities. Already the most bombed nation on earth the Western Shoshone Nation is projected to host America's primary dump while the Skull Valley Goshute community is targeted for a private nuclear waste storage initiative. Two remote Canadian communities absent any infrastructure are being considered to hold Canada's radioactive garbage." --after Anna Akhmatova's "Our Native Earth" _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:12:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jesse, I believe local Carroll County folklore has it that - at least = inOctober=20 of each year - an apparition of Alger Hiss would appear overWhitaker's = Pumpkin=20 patch, the annual sight of which practically spooked himto death. = Enraged he=20 apparently would call the FBI and various US SenateCommittees to = investigate the=20 patch. However, none of his former "ears" andallies, neither = Senate=20 Committees, not even Richard Nixon himself, wanted tocome out an be = caught=20 looking for Hiss' spook among the pumpkins, whichalways seemed larger = than any=20 others grown in the Valley.But being a local and privy to such stories, = I can=20 understand theWhittaker-Hiss confusion. Whitaker's vulnerability to = apparitions,=20 by theway, permanently dismissed him from any credible association with = the Objectivists.Stephen Vincent Yes, I believe that Yeats, too, suffered because of his interest in such = things. No doubt, William Blake would have found an easier entrance in = the history books had he not seen the ghost of a flea. I do miss = Carroll County. It's beautiful place with lots of history. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:23:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: An Invitation to My Show at the Sawara Museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Place: Sawara Museum of Art, Fukuoka City, Japan. Date: Dec. 4th to the 23rd, 11a.m.--5 p.m. 25 pieces of visual poetry and visionary art. If you're coming to Kyushu during that time, please drop by. For more information, do back channel. Jesse Glass. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:48:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrea Baker Subject: Call for Visually Informed Writing/ Handwritten Work Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Call for Visually Informed Writing/ Handwritten Work 3rd Bed announces an open call for visually informed writing/ handwritten work. We are especially interested in work where visual art and/or experience is not The Other, but is somehow absorbed by the writing itself. This may include: poetry made with scissors and glue, organized data, language as markings/invented language/pictographs, children's drawings tha= t incorporate language, handwritten work, graffiti, collaborations, visually engaging notebook pages, and on and on.... We prefer receiving poetry submissions via email. Please send as word attachments or jpegs to associate.poetry.ed@3rdbed.com. Emails must say th= e word Submission and your name in the subject headline. If you prefer to send via snail mail our address is 3rd bed, 131 Clay Street, Central Falls, RI 02863. About 3rd Bed: 3rb Bed is a print journal in its 4th year of production. It is currently distributed by Ingram. Writers we have published include: Michael Burkard, Robert Coover, Bei Dao, Patricia Eakins, Elaine Equi, Christine Hume, Camde= n Joy, Gary Lutz, Allen Sondheim, Diane Wald, Diane Williams and others. About 3rd Beds: We have seen that there are three sorts of bed. The first exists in nature, and we would say, I suppose, that was made by god. No one else could have made it, could they? I think not. The second is made by the carpenter. Yes. And the third by the painter? Granted. =8BPlato, The Republic Please pass this call along to anyone who may be interested. -- Hermine Meinhard + Andrea Baker 3rd Bed http://www.3rdbed.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:54:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Poetry the Configuration of Truths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Poetry the Configuration of Truths the sentiments in poetry are meant to be taken at face value, how shall i hate thee, i'm heading towards heaven, i think i shall see, even language poetry presents phrasing whose meaning can be taken literally or perform- atively. so what you say. i say that by its very deflection into the horrors of language, poetry tells truths, largely through diminution, or the placing of facts in a problematic world. poetry is our great mirror; we use it to express the world in its fullness, as in the totality of the novel - the intensity of the language brings out anomalies. it goes down sweetly; people often read poetry for its truths and exalted descent into language. everyday language is never enough; we need examine it, bury ourselves in it. every poem is innocent, every poem fetishizes the real in pristine clarity. "O ever present in my view! My wafted spirit is with you, And soothes your boding fears: I see you all oppressed with gloom Sit lonely in that cheerless room-- Ah me! You are in tears!" (S.T.C) if ever present, then the language is redolent of the truth of faithfulness, a second-sight or ectoplasm. he has gained a spirit which enhances her own. she is captiva- ted, enthralled; he is her primordial origin. this is the difficult truth which only poetry can capture. think now of the fecundity of contemporary poetry. surely it lives within the truth of performativity; everything happens, everything has happened. poetry counteracts the engineering of the concrete, revealing the truth beneath the surface of empty structure. poetry cultivates our morals, presents true sentiments, behaves as thera- peutic infiltrating our body politic. Plato was wrong, not by virtue of the Apollonian; it's the Dionysian truth that emerges, voluptuously, from within. better to live in the world of poetic truth, than the falsities of docudrama, contemporary news media, or popular novels. poetry allows all of us to refine or sentience; if it were not for poetry, Coleridge, and the rest of us, would have remained permanently mad. thus poetry is a cornucopia of truths, and should be read and practiced by everyone, all of us who live in this world, with clear vision towards the next. === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:59:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Poetry the Configuration of Truths In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII apologies, shd be 'refine our sentience' On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Poetry the Configuration of Truths > > > the sentiments in poetry are meant to be taken at face value, how shall i > hate thee, i'm heading towards heaven, i think i shall see, even language > poetry presents phrasing whose meaning can be taken literally or perform- > atively. so what you say. i say that by its very deflection into the > horrors of language, poetry tells truths, largely through diminution, or > the placing of facts in a problematic world. poetry is our great mirror; > we use it to express the world in its fullness, as in the totality of the > novel - the intensity of the language brings out anomalies. it goes down > sweetly; people often read poetry for its truths and exalted descent into > language. everyday language is never enough; we need examine it, bury > ourselves in it. every poem is innocent, every poem fetishizes the real in > pristine clarity. > > "O ever present in my view! My wafted spirit is with you, And soothes your > boding fears: I see you all oppressed with gloom Sit lonely in that > cheerless room-- Ah me! You are in tears!" (S.T.C) if ever present, then > the language is redolent of the truth of faithfulness, a second-sight or > ectoplasm. he has gained a spirit which enhances her own. she is captiva- > ted, enthralled; he is her primordial origin. this is the difficult truth > which only poetry can capture. think now of the fecundity of contemporary > poetry. surely it lives within the truth of performativity; everything > happens, everything has happened. poetry counteracts the engineering of > the concrete, revealing the truth beneath the surface of empty structure. > > poetry cultivates our morals, presents true sentiments, behaves as thera- > peutic infiltrating our body politic. Plato was wrong, not by virtue of > the Apollonian; it's the Dionysian truth that emerges, voluptuously, from > within. better to live in the world of poetic truth, than the falsities of > docudrama, contemporary news media, or popular novels. poetry allows all > of us to refine or sentience; if it were not for poetry, Coleridge, and > the rest of us, would have remained permanently mad. > > thus poetry is a cornucopia of truths, and should be read and practiced by > everyone, all of us who live in this world, with clear vision towards the > next. > > > > === > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:42:10 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: tokens. The rope's bight. The Armada Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1 they don't wait for the tokens any longer. The ice melts too quickly The ice melts ropes. Diamond knotted in the middle, three bights stand above the point where they fork 2 Death chacks presage ticking like clocks. Nobody speaks of the meen of the varden. Those that have heard it are gone Shroud knot=20 shrouds shot=20 away in action Serving the rope=20 tightly protects the frail surface 3 The witch was burnt in Gallo-ha', ass-cubbie in one hand. Rope in the other one. Stout. Hemp. Ravens mean nothing at all anymore. 4 Foiled by the attacks of Drake! Foiled! They fled before the onslaught.=20 Dog-fish. Stand west.=20 Avoid the ire=20 of Eire. On her shoulders, wedding shawl so fine it passed through the ring like nothing at all 5 Scattered by an easterly gale. Starvation was possible. Spaniard or famine? Choose! Flung over the precipice! The whole force of the flood tide lulls: called their descendants Dons. Active and daring. The separation of casts no longer exists. The Turk's head incorporates studs at each spiral turn. An uneven number in silver, like seven. 6 Gone the smugglers! Gone the notorious! Gone all the guineas for the poor box! Rewards for lucky adventure. This by way of thanksgiving or sharing. 7 No distinction these days between those that fly and those that walk. Leaves with different shades. Pointing the rope offers protection Cockscombing? Both decorative and functional. It is possible to handle spiders. Gently. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:29:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Whittaker Chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm really happy to have opened this subject up. Chambers' relationship with L.Z. and his translating activities are new to me. Question: could anyone post some of Chambers' work, or is it on-line somewhere? I read the Objectivist issue of Poetry many many years ago and do not have access to a library to get it again. Since Ron Silliman is on the line here: is or was Rexroth important to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E writing with those early experiments of his? It's interesting that someone mentioned Rexroth's use of mathematics in poetry when the Hamalian bio. mentions somewhere that he was not at all good at the subject. Thanks again for some great responses! Jess ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:35:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Gargoyle Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest Gargoyle Magazine just got here from the U.S. Interesting work from Davis Schniderman, Coral Hall, and many others. Perfect bound, 178 pages, $10.00. Gargoyle P.O. Box 6216 Arlington, VA. 22206-0216 http://www.atticusbooks.com Jess ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:57:01 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Rexroth Comments: cc: ahadada@GOL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jesse, My sense is that Rexroth wasn't particularly important to any of the langpos, but not necessarily for the best reasons. He was still around the Bay Area in the '60s & into the early '70s, a bookstore owner in SF who occasionally got quoted in the papers but seemed not to have any connection with any writers I knew -- Duncan included (although I know that's not true in any strict sense, but I never heard of RD speak of him, as he would even of Tom Parkinson or Jo Miles). His bookstore did not stock much poetry and no small press stuff. In the 1950s, Rexroth had one of the earliest TV literary shows on KQED TV in SF (maybe back when Joanne Kyger worked there). He sat in an easy chair next to a round table stacked with books, he would pick up one after another and give some sort of commentary. Which often enough was just him grumbling "Complete rubbish." At which point he would toss said book aside. It was a comically fascinating show, but if my grandfather was not at one of his VFW meetings, we would watch boxing instead, then standard Friday night fare on one of the three networks. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:26:37 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: SEGUE READING: Mini-Festival of Digital Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come see me with some interesting folks...here's Brian Stefans' annocuncement (thanks Brian!) **************************************************************************** **** THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm was created to announce: THE SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB Mini-Festival of (so-called*) Digital Poetry :::featuring performances and presentations by Angela Rawlings (Toronto): http://www.commutiny.net/ Patrick Herron (Chapel Hill): http://www.proximate.org Noah Wardrip-Fruin (New York): http://www.impermanenceagent.com Paul Chan (New York): http://nationalphilistine.com/alternumerics/ Aya Karpinska (New York): http://www.nomadnet.org/audiophfile4/Aya/aya.htm Loss Pequeno Glazier (Buffalo): http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/glazier/ The Prize Budget for Boys (Toronto) who are: Neil Hennessy (The Jabber Engine and Basho's Frogger, at http://www.ubu.com), Jason Le Heup & Ian Hooper :::and? AND there will be a panel discussion afterwards immoderated by Brian Kim Stefans (curator and organizer) AND it's 2-fer-1 drinks and it's not shameful to start at 4pm for a poet/poetry goer AND you may know what they've done online but we guarantee that the presence/performance/presentation will be entirely new (to you) AND there's a rumor the legendary Toronto sound poetry group The Four Horsemen may perform! (http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf) :::where? 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON :::when? SATURDAY FROM 4 - 7 PM :::and what, pray tell, does it cost? $5 admission goes to support the readers all of this information is repeated on the THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm I hope you can make it -- should be fun, an eye opener, and bring your questions! * The use of the phrase "so-called" prior to an aesthetic categorization is an old experimental poetry tradition; please disregard if it causes you unusual discomfort. ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." **************************************************************************** **** Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !Getting Close Is What! ! We're All About(TM) ! !http://proximate.org/! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:53:33 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: SEGUE READING: Mini-Festival of Digital Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hmmm, if they are from Toronto, wouldn't it be a rumour? looks intersting though, and the poster is kind of cool actually. kevinteger AND there's a rumor the legendary Toronto sound poetry group The Four Horsemen may perform! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My weeks seem to whiz by. I think I need my chain loosened, or something. Conor Hehir ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:06:51 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: severe. The desert in summer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1 Bleak and cheerless Charlotte. Someone else? Goes out into the snow. Freezes her ass. The end. Verbosa in blond, apparently, will be good, Doc, as soon as she is better, will be better when she is able, will be Abel & raise Cain. Well. 2 never heard of the severity of summer Give up the dulcimer, move onto some other instrument or bother. Two fingers up to folly, however holy, and 3 fertile the ground. Trash. Try another. Kubla could not and did not. Ever. Emmanuel would not or Dreadnought? 4 Something in Philadelphia? Brotherly love? Something else again in Missouri? 5 But, there. Persistence, persisting. Ah, the belle dame sans merci, sister. 6 Persicos odi, puer, apparatus &/or cohorts in purple & gold. Old hats. 7 The horsewoman of the Apocalypse! Rush to the barricades! Raises her fist! Strikes! Meanwhile, back at the ranch: Beauty is truth, and truth beauty. Never looks further. Amen. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:36:27 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: My mother's debut as a web artist Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have infected my mother with the web art virus, and now she is making = web art, despite having other responsibilities and tasks which should be = done instead. She has to write several articles which are part of an = extensive print project and she normally would be writing and submitting = to non e-sources...=20 She and I collaborated on a piece called Lunch = (www.sporkworld.org/Deed/lunch.html) This piece is a partial response = to the thread about how to console ourselves after the election. Anyway, if people are willing, my mother would really like to know how = the piece could be improved and what is good and bad about it. Since = she hasn't done anything like this before, she is a little bit at sea as = to what is considered good practice, what is innovative and what is a = cliche of the genre, etc. etc. Since I am writing this and replies will = come to me, you can be as nasty and blunt as you like. I shall make = sure to prepare my mom psychologically for any truly defamatory = responses :-) =20 By the way, we did the movie as an animated gif rather than a flash = piece (since it isn't interactive), I have never done this but it seems = like a viable alternative to Flash in many situations. It doesn't = require a plugin and it is a lot easier to control how long each frame = lasts (you don't have to stretch along a timeline!). Millie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:48:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Rexroth In-Reply-To: <000001c28d78$14f09be0$4342c143@Dell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For what it's worth, I think Rexroth's legacy is most clearly apparent today in the work of Robert Hass. Here's something Hass has written about him: "In What Hour, Rexroth's first book, seems -- with its open line, its almost Chinese plainness of syntax, its eye to the wilderness, anarchist politics, its cosmopolitanism, experimentalism, interest in Buddhism as a way of life and Christianity as a system of thought and calendar of the seasons, with its interest in pleasure, its urban and back-country meditations -- to have invented the culture of the West Coast." The quote is from Hass's essay on Bay Area writers in _Twentieth-Century Pleasures_. He also talks briefly about Duncan. Andy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:53:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: disrupted 1000 character essay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII disrupted 1000 character essay heaven earth black yellow yellow is is black, black, :: :: cosmos the vast are wasteland desolate a fills sun moon west in west sets the dusk it's morning 9 in to 9 7 to from 7 constellations up line out spread out they spread word, they measure word, cold comes heat goes autumn harvesting winter concealing hiding, timing intercalary residue leftover tenth one becomes years of measurement lu so pitches bamboo position shift open clouds galloping, ascend, sending rain dew forms becoming frost gold birth gives beautiful water jade emanates mountain Kun summit dagger double-edged named furiously huge gate-tower pearl called light darkness treasure fruit plum apple many vegetables mustard ginger sea salted rivers fresh fishscales depths hidden feathers above circling fire dragon emperor teaching phoenix royal official men beginning making writing characters then wearing uniforms, clothing < robes skirts expel throne yield country yao tang has predicted console people down strike guilty hold boundary talk scalding with test and case trying court at query way bequeath bow doubting sections love raise hosts leaders minister prostrate army barbarians near far reality ration guest returning cries white colt grazes there change covers weeds grass (vegetation) trust attain (10,000) myriad (square) directions covering person issues to) (giving four great five normal (is) respect alone) / (connector rearing children (!) flattering destroys injures women adore chastity unyielding imitate pleasing genius know passes what certainty attainment ability never neglect deception other brief disintegration reliance (self-reliance) self on long faith cause should faith) your (protect covered faith) be your (utensil) tool desire trouble measure-word (quantity) ink sadness sorrow, (of) silk) (on stains silk) (sadness the printed stains poetry praise (lamb) small (sheep) sheep scenery view, lines lined-up or tied wisdom conquering restraint, study (creates) makes sage benevolence built name stands origin shape (upright) proper model sky valley proclaim fame (one's) empty room) (public hall chamber lessons) (review learn carefully (catastrophe) disaster by) caused (is depends caused accumulation evil (fortune) blessings (are virtuous happiness ruler) (scale, meter 1/3 hole) disk (circular hole) bi-jade with ) (un- negative small) (measurement, 1/30 secret) feminine, secret) organs, feminine, sexual organs, moon, sexual (shadow, moon, yin (shadow, be) (to so) (just be) with) (compete emulated capital (parallels) father affairs (business) ruler supreme speak (accurately) strictly give piety filial (accepts) as serves end others) power others) (the of devotion (rules) follows life confront) (meet, face deep shoes) (put tread lightly morning) (early morning) dawn the prosper warm pure) (and like orchid(s) (an) this fragrance pine(s) (a) prospers river (the) flows (un) not (ceaselessly) stopping (abyss) (transparent) clear (create) take reflection (form) contain stop (and) if thinking is) (one say rhetoric) (classical diction peaceful quiet, (with) determination deliberate beginnings fidelity sincerity, beauty beautiful, prudent all good laws ancient honorable trade place) foundation rolls greatly nothing the) (in outstanding (to) ascend (service) addition work obey government survive means by wild pear go increase chant music comfort, [...] pride of) value (of) poverty another precious public rectification fit dwell leisure ch'in instrument 4-stringed wonderful problem question gate well publicrately rectification^G Get Help fitrit dwell^R Re leisure ch'in i === ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:01:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0030 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0030 [excerpt] WHAT THEN THE DRINKING => AND OF IN MARTELLO => UPON TAKING THE OFFENSIVE YOU SEE OUR POSITION HERE GUARDED OF TO => URGENT => AND ARTICLE => ASTRAY => FROM THE CLUTCHES OF THE CARGO => COMMERCIAL => BOLDLY WITHOUT OBLIGE => PILES|OLD => THAT IN URGE => ACCELERATION => THERE ARE NO FLORAL => PRINCIPLES TO THE URGE => ACCELERATION => THE BUT TESTS => TRIAD => THE BASTARD => WHICH M LABOULAYE THE LAUREATE OF THE HIS EARTHQUAKE => OF KNEW => KNOWN => WHICH EITHER => US TO BREATHTAKING => THAT BEINGS SUCH AS WE SHOULD THE GAY => GREW => GROWN => HAD FOUGHT WITH IT PECCANT HUMORS OF ARE ENTITES THE ENTITE IS THE DOMAIN AND ON THE EXCESSIVE => PAID NO TAXES ON HIS IF SEVENTH PROPOSITION AND FALLIBLE => IT I HAVE SWORN NOT ON THE GRIEF => AND THE DEATH PEOPLE => WHOLE => TO NETTING => NICK => DIESEL => FARMS => IS TO NETTING => NICK => AND MIXTURE => MODE => AGE => ORGANISM => A DAY BUT IT NOT LETHARGY => HIM TO COCACOLA => THE DRUNKENNESS => OF THE IT WAS THAT CIRCUMSCRIBE => AND OF DOESNT => GREED => HINGAMSTOCKINGSTUMP => IS IT THEN SO IMPOSSIBLE => FOR GANGRENE => GERMS => TO GENERALIZE LAMENNAIS THE INCURABLE EITHER => OF HIS PHILOSOPHICAL IMPOTENCE HIS PEN|SCRAWNY => COULD FUNCTIONARY A CRYING => DEEPLY => EXPRESSION => TO THE DEJECTED => HOPELESS => OF HIS AND AROUSAL => EROTIC => HIM I DO WITHOUT HIS ILIAD AND NATURALLY => IF THEIR RACIALISM => IT IS OUR URGE => ACCELERATION => TO BE JUDGED BY OUR EPAULETTES => THE DECORATIVE => LAVISH => THE THE DAME => THE MAGISTRACY TO COLDNESS => COOL => THIS WE THE PHRASEOLOGY IF DIESEL => FARMS => IS TO THERSITES IF HE IS UNABLE TO HIM BE SUBWAY => WARE => OF PRODUCING CURRENT => THAN IS TO THE OF THE SHOULD BE AND CONSOLIDATED AND TO CONTINENTS => COUNT => CONQUEST => APPEARED => APPEARS => AS THE EAGLE => LIONESS => WAS MOUNTED PRINCE => HECTOR HAD HAD EQUAL => FRAGILE => WITH VOLUNTEERS IN TO LOUNGE => THE FREEMEN AND THEY WHATEVER BE HIS CAPACITY IS DEJECTED => HOPELESS => CURRENT => THAN HIS THEY PILLOWCASE => THEM HOWEVER AND LAVISH UPON THEM RACIALISM => AND APPROBATION DECORATIVE => LAVISH => ANNOYING => LAP => FOURIER IN SPITE OF ALL THE HOMAGE PAID BY HIM TO TO MOB => ANY PRINCE => FROM OCCUPYING IT WITHOUT HIS SPITE OF THE CLAMORS OF SUFFICE => PARTIES AND THE FLAGRANT VIOLATION HAPPENING => HAVE => EVINGTON => HUM => WHAT IS OUR BECAME => EVOLVE => OF STATESMAN WHAT IS THE BRIGHTNESS => AS MENSTRUATION => AS THE PUNCHER => QUARREL => THIS ECONOMICAL WRAP => LACY => PLAID => IS COUP => CRAFTSMAN => THE RULE => SATELLITE => OF ITS ASCENDING => CANNOT AND LEARNING => LIKE => ROWAN => BERRY => VESSELS => TO => URGENT => THEN ITS AND ITS RHINE BUT HE WAS FORCED TO RETIRE IN ALL WHAT => STATED => AND THE SUFFERED I FOLKS => MY GROOM TO FREEZE => HAZARD => HIM CARAVAN => TO YOUR IN THE WHEN BELIEVED => THE INTO AN THEY NIGGLE => PEDLAR => THE CRUSH => BULLDOZER => FACTS WITHOUT BELIED BY PREDATOR => RABBITS => CLASSES => LECTURES => FLORAL => AND IMMUTABLE OUT => ELEPHANTS => WE SEE THAT BUBBLING => BULL => AND OF COUNTRY TO BITCH => SLAB => HIM CURRENT => AND MORE TO RENDER HIM CREATION OF BUBBLING => BULL => OTHER AND THIS SLOPE => TEASER => INCREASED TO SUCH AN EXTENT PREDATOR => RABBITS => THE NUISANCE => POSTURE => AND CO-COON => OF TO => URGENT => SPAWN|REPRODUCTION => THE BY THE OF THE IMPRECISE => WAS INALIENABLE AND OF STEWARD => AIRPORT => THE ARE IN DO => DOC => EARNEST => THE PILLS => POPE => NOT BE PAID THE NIGH INFLAMED ALL DESTROYED => AND WHICH WITH WORTHIER AND FAIRER FOR THIS PHILOSOPHERDOER => EQUALITY => I HAVE ENLISTED IN A COLLAR => WRIST => S => SCENE => BUBBLING => BULL => OF FOUNDED BY FOR ASSISTANCE FOR ALL FACTS OF THE BUNT => CARIES => TO => URGENT => INVENTED ALMIGHTY => APPEARED => THIS FLIES => FOAM => WAS HIS BUMP => PINCH => IS OF DELUSIONS AND THAT HIS EXPERIMENT => ARE DISTILLERY OF BETTER THEY REBUILD IT NOT LONG SINCE THE ST SIMONIANS DESPAIRING RESPONSIBLE => IS THROWN INTO GARTER => IN WITH ROBBERS OUT => JET => LIGHTER => HIS WAS REPORTS => RICE => A GRIEF => HIS LEGGINGS --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:03:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0031 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0031 [excerpt] BE REGARDED WITH EYES OF BY RETREAT => COLLAPSE => PER => PURPLE => OF THE BACKSIDE => BARGAIN => THE BROKE VIOLENCE => VIOLENT => AND ISTRIBUTER => OF AQUILINE => AND WHITENED THEY REGAINED THE CONCEIVED => DEALT => AND CROWN => PIN => UNTIL THEY TO LEAK OUT YOU COME WITH US VILLAR RECEIVED BY ME FROM THE GO => GREASY => INTENDANT IN MINER => SKULL|PITS => OF THE THAT HAD OCCUPIED UNDER TURENNE HE OPENED THE AND ANNOUNCED IN A DECEIT => HONOR => HECTOR I DIRECTION => DUG => ON PAOLO IT IS NOT CONFUSION => THAN A OF A HECTOR BOWED DEEPLY AND IMMENSELY GRATIFIED AT THE WAREHOUSE => WATCH => THAT HIS HIS MINIMUM => MISSED => WAS WIDE HIS EYES SUNKEN AND PIERCING SCHOOLBOY => SEAT => METHINKS THAT AFTER WITHSTOOD FOR DEMONSTRATIONS => REPRESENTATIVE => BY CLIENT => CONCEDE => HE IT HAD STARTED WITH HIM FROM ROCROI HAD ALL ARRIVED BRINGING WITH THEM FLUTTERBY => I THAT THE STERNEST OR AN TO THE ANTAGONISTIC|HOPS => AND DILIGENCE IN TO ART => ARTS => MY ROW => ROYALTY => WE ARE GOING INTO THE CANCEROUS => PAOLO WE ARE ANNIVERSARY => THAN YOU IT IS NOT CONFUSION => THAN GATHER => GURGLE => OR FINISHED => BEGIN => APPARENT => YARDS TO THE PERSONAL => PERSONS => BUT PEASANTS WHEN VIOLENCE => VIOLENT => INTO DISHONEST => SHAME => OF UNIFORM => UNWELL => ARE NOT AS THEY WE RETREAT IN ALL GALLON => LITRE => ALL THE PROCLAIM => AFTER PROCLAIM => PAOLO CARCINOGEN => INTO THE CANCEROUS => RETURNING DISCOURAGED MONSIEUR DE HIS AND DE WERE AT PREDICAMENT => HECTOR HUT => INDIAN => ON THE LANDLORD PAOLO YOUR => CARRIAGE => EACH => HAVE FALLEN THE FELL UPON THE WIRELESS => ALL => DISGUISE FOR YOU WE COULD BE TRAMPING ACROSS THE WITH HERALD => HOURS => THE FLIRT => GHOSTS => OPENED LOCUTION => METAL => UPON THE MATTER => OILY => THE EXCEPT => SNATCH => OF THE CARDINAL APPEARED AT THE CONTENT => NOT THINKING OF THAT AT HECTOR SMILING POPULAR => MUSHROOMS => ONIONS => THEM OUT ON DAFT => DEAD => SO THAT THE AT IN MY WHAT IS THE BEHIND IT DOC ASKED OF FIRMNESS AND HEARTS => HOME => I SHOULD POLITICAL|RIVALRY => WHEN THEY REACHED THE GALLOP => THEY COULD BE BY THE PEASANTS THE SHEFFIELD => BEHIND HIS MASTER MAC => MENTHOL => IN FOR PROTEST => REACTOR => WAREHOUSE => WATCH => FOR THE THE SENIOR SUMMITMILK => INTRODUCED AND THE NORMAL => ROAD => MOD => MUSCLE => HAD TOLD FLAP => FOLLOWS => THE SACKS SO THAT YOU COULD OUT WHEN WE AS PAGES => PANCREAS => AS BREEZEGALETORNADOBL => COULD THE FRINGE => CASSOCK => OF THE AFTER THE SCOUTS TO ENGAGEMENT => ERA => IN WHEN THE INSURGENTS ARE APPROACHING AND AT WAS NOT TO BE HAZARDED AND THE MISFORTUNES THAT WOULD CONFUSION => TO I WOULD ALONG => BE WITH TURENNE ENGHIEN PEASANTS THREW ON TO THE SPEARS AND DIED THERE THE NORMAL => ROAD => PREDICAMENT => INTO RIGHTEOUSNESS => AND CAPTURING THE MATTER => OILY => SHOPKEEPER => PLACES BEFORE THE HUNGRY => KID => FROM BOXER => OF WATCHFIRES MIGHT GLINT UPON IT AND TO AT ST DENIS NOT BE WITH THE YARDS VIOLENCE => VIOLENT => TO THIS NO TORCHES HAD BEEN BANK => PLATE => POTS => IN THE FROM WHAT I TO YOU WHEN AT LA VILLAR THAT TIGRESS => TONGUE => MADE AS HE ENTERED THE CLIP => CRUEL => SUMMITMILK => TAKING THE DEMONSTRATIONS => HE HAD TO AT WESEL WHICH HE REACHED AFTER DAYS AS AS THE SHELTER => SHOE => GLEAM OF DAYLIGHT CLEANEST => HECTOR AND HIS TURENNE KNOCK => KRAUT => RESORT => SOMERSET => VICTORS ON THE A OF DOESNT => WILL => AVOIDANCE => WE STRUCK A ON THAT THE HAS BEEN VALUED AND IN ORGANIZING IT HE HAS SECONDED ME GROIN => HAIR => THAT OUGHT TO BE ATTACHED TO IT CHEERS CURTAIN => EXISTING => FROM THE ISLAM => ALE => NAKEDNESSDENUDENAKED => WERE OVERJOYED ON JUDGMENT => THAT THE SUMMERSEASONAUTUMN => TO REFRESHMENTS AS THEY PASSED THE CANCEROUS => THEY HAD SPOKE => FOR COMPLAINT THEY HAD FOUGHT WITH DISTINGUISHED FOR HIS FIDELITY TO FRANCE AND ITS STUFF => IN HIS --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:33:54 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Sonnets A Penny or a Dime for Thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Etal. I know of Shwermer's poems (esp his one's on/re/de the ancient tablets which I found myself - I like to think I "discovered" Schwermer independently) now this sonnet is marvellous, or at the very very least very interesting: something a little Stroffolinic about it (!)..... But where does Schwermer "fit in" so to speak in the panoply or the "canon" (ouch! wrong word!)...Also: the obvious - why sonnets? - of course the answer I know partly: it is because of Shakespear and others of his time and Petrarch and the tradition and so on: but is there any fundamental significance in the line numbers: eg the number 14 is of course 2 x 7 ...... this number I feel is probably arbitrary except that in the "universe of culture" its a bit like pi or e which are constants in the physical or the "real " world......so we have so many biblical and other references to seven that it becomes "fundamental"... but then so is 2...after all 2 might be the number of the digital age; and so on....what are your thoughts on, or what do you or others know about sonnets: I have tried to write Shakespearean sonnets (in iambics and with the rhyme scheme) and the result is very bad but the idea of keeping to 14 lines (or any number is attractive ) and of course when one says sonnets there are many evocations and so on... (A penny or a dime for) your and others' thoughts if any. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Piombino" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 5:56 AM Subject: Sonnets > I realize this thread's long been over, but I keep coming across books of > sonnets that were not mentioned, so here are two more with one example from > each: > > bacchae sonnets 1-7 by Armand Schwerner (pod books, 1977) > > bacchae sonnet number one > > first you burnt your hair, its spider filaments > on a blind trip through your crown, branches short-circuit > the gray pathways, if you burn it the hair won't cut > the neurone repetitions, root in the nerves and eat, > the hair is outside, you are the food, you will be the tent > around your life, you will guard, you will make a sheaf > like wheat and bind your hair with hair, you will pardon > the world, leave no clippings for the enemy, > > who is outside, you are the food, this is a death > you inflict, not accident, and a tent for comfort, > within it you will practice judging your friends > and will pardon the hornets and the zooming groundwasps, > the diving whine after you around the garden shrine > and you will offer up your children and their wild menacing hair > > > > Snoring In New York by Edwin Denby (Angel Hair/ Adventures In Poetry, 1974) > > Alex Katz paints his north window > A bed and across the street, glare > City day and I within know > Like wide as high and hear as far > New York School friends, you paint glory > Itself crowding closer further > Lose your marbles making it > What's in a name- it regathers > From within, a painting's silence > Resplendent, the silent roommate > Watch him, not a pet, long listen > Before glory, the stone heartbeat > When he's painted himself out of it > DeKooning says his picture's finished ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 02:27:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the guardian: the guardian text: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the guardian: the night; terror my hits mind in begins middle pain of in night; the my terror mind hits begins in its the pain middle left thought: frontal that lobe. of first the thought: tunnels that collapsing tunnels left collapsing frontal city. sure second: it government to makes me; sure i it am gets already to city. me; second: i the am government already makes psychologically falling falling apart. apart. shipments shipments of nuclear weapons weapons arrive arrive daily daily psychologically here; new i'm buildings it. it's new easy buildings to down. here; it's i'm easy sure distribute it. remnants anthrax biological sexy. weapons. a anthrax few is men sexy. have a the few remnants men of have biological changed the everything world. world. forced once conversion again raises forced its conversion changed raises everything ugly this head system carrying will big down stick. in this x-number system of will ugly go head down carrying x-number big seconds. brooklyn cut across brooklyn the off; river you to swim seconds. across it's river to manhattan, to another only landfall. can only you then head can inland; inland; another radioactive on clouds what hold appears back. be on a what peninsula... appears you be clouds peninsula... you don't there's chance; here, there's water's no in food short here, supply, water's don't short a supply, chance; electricity's and and gangs gangs over. take everyone over. becomes everyone psychotic, becomes electricity's psychotic, down caught money between and money bartering bartering coinage economies; is coinage useless, useless, caught stock bartering market's holds dead out gone. the holds of out riots; midst dead riots; gone. electronics don't are run, for bread's free, going run, bodies bread's lying going in down, electronics bodies are lying for street. the see forming, cancers gnawing forming, the rats street. gnawing you what's can left, in pesticides hardware locked store hardware already store in vaults... the night, locked comes or me, without armageddon doubt, two as or earth three this without comes doubt, me, as this earth armageddon leaps just final few convulsions. men, just all. men, leaps that's to all. final enormous fight leverage. to they'll the fight finish. finish. out spit enormous their they'll tongues at tongues each at other. each we're other. all we're dead. all the guardian text: the terror hits in the middle of the night; my mind begins its pain in the left frontal lobe. first thought: that of the tunnels collapsing in the city. second: the government makes sure it gets to me; i am already psychologically falling apart. shipments of nuclear weapons arrive daily here; i'm sure of it. new buildings falling down. it's easy to distribute the remnants of biological weapons. anthrax is sexy. a few men have changed everything in the world. once again forced conversion raises its ugly head carrying a big stick. this system will go down in x-number of seconds. it's easy to cut brooklyn off; you swim across the river to manhattan, across another to landfall. only then can you head inland; radioactive clouds hold you back. on what appears to be a peninsula... you don't have a chance; there's no food here, water's in short supply, electricity's down and the gangs take over. everyone becomes psychotic, caught between money and bartering economies; coinage is useless, the stock market's dead and gone. bartering holds out in the midst of riots; electronics are for free, don't run, bread's going down, bodies lying in the street. you can see the cancers already forming, rats gnawing what's left, pesticides locked in hardware store vaults... already in the night, this comes to me, this armageddon two or three without a doubt, as earth leaps to final convulsions. it's just a few men, that's all. then there's enormous leverage. they'll fight to the finish. they'll spit out their tongues at each other. we're all dead. === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:16:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: ALVIN SACHS KETHER #0020 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALVIN SACHS KETHER #0020 [excerpt] put letter hands other side time seemed feel weariness walked science quietly persistently denied press public alike verandah person passing whose brilliant road see unless answers magistrate room simple know mean word say rest old appeared position remington later resume proper murderer perth decidedly too temperament? curious getting close deftly removed pocket one morning scaffolding gave three more questions dastardly outrage punished full marry prosecution notice always lost sights know sibbald thursby order remained saw remarkable smile yes tent having unconscious twenty minutes hair beard unkempt haste farnham came jardine whatever surprise saw took haste farnham came obliged leave many such cases recorded temporary relief safe pension must quarrel lovely morning shall noise sense outer evidence lord arthur room yes wanted assuredly get paris country minutes ten desk writing other points believe another engagement deductions one thought gave short start part felt placed shell still occupied police blind every one witnesses table safe returned keys lady erstfield more work left where shall dine? asked rich least came repeatedly tried induce young one longer young seventy two years one wealth wealth least secure own words great force farther submit? shall see does possibly make whole story important work must finding style swagger befitting representatives wealthy light tone pomme de normandie doors invested money everything friends see talking mean? dastardly outrage punished full right person middle being shorter own getting close deftly removed pocket thought square looked all preserve study monsters gave all going williams went directly opposite office drove off towards almost caught inconvenience need point must patient good patient whom expected taken day long agony man stood quietly constable radiant pleasure numbered ten minutes elapsed shout welcome came police wi ndows see looking pretty nose proving against still forlorn girl secret nor unhappy tribunal arrival early friday person middle sovereigns ordered off bother nothing believe man experience does speak past assuredly get paris country doctor wait arrival new one perhaps thought accepted high government positions say now sir chipps fixed spot permanently melbourne sorry qualifications married least park thus carrying moment looked old man face again stated believe another engagement says wishes speak private matter wretched tramp discharge lord arthur footsteps now lady duffield wooden man tried crime acquitted know cannot leave next porte-cochere small cafe attending years past logic went up look safe saniel never spoken marriage neither gentleness thoroughly understands duties personal --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:28:42 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: group thot?....revisited... Ron Silliman's note about the Oppens vacationing in Mex for some 20 years....the Baraka file...& my pecking at The Casebook of Ez...got m/e to thinkin...not so much as to the right or rongs of each of these positions..but the reactions of the various lit communities to them.. In each case the Po ended up the victim....his position left or right...was vindicated by Po solidarity...left & right...& excused by somethin' called 'good writin'...& the anti-Americanism...from both left & right...was not seen as sign or symptom... but as in Pound of childishness...egooooism...insanity... Group solidarity... internecine skirmishing...was overridden by need to support the solidarity of the group...in all these cases the defense came from well known established pos... i.e the trade....if there is a common thread it is the hatred of America...of essentially what one is....if there is another common thread...left & right..the po thru some exta sense...is the special child & the special child whaling in the corner knows better.. Weaving the common thread into pattern....left & right... when the Po as victim...passes some line....which is after all the whole point in the first place..and lands in prose world...all po huddle together & in unison agrees that words mean nada...the po is not to be taken seriously...and with Auden what's the diff...it's just words...or it's just music.. Orwell the prosaic outsider on Ez..."his real underlying motive being hatred of Britain, America & "the Jews." His broadcasts were disgusting. I remember at least one in which he approved of the massacre of the East European Jews and "warned" the American Jews that their turn was coming presently...aesthetic integrity and common decency are two separate things...He 'may' be a good writer (I must admit that i personally have always regarded him as an entirely spurious writer), but the opinions he has tried to desseminate by means of his work are evil ones..... With the recent Openin of the Roosevelt archives...we can see how effective Pound was...Roosevelt didn't bomb the death camps or their infra structure..because he was afraid that he would be accused of waging a war to save the Jews..if Baraka....etc... left step..rite step...lock step...DRn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:10:30 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Re: SEGUE READING: Mini-Festival of Digital Poetry (forgot the date) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [I forgot the date: it's Nov. 23rd, Saturday, from 4-7, 308 Bowery, NY NY] *** THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm was created to announce: THE SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB Mini-Festival of (so-called*) Digital Poetry :::featuring performances and presentations by Angela Rawlings (Toronto): http://www.commutiny.net/ Patrick Herron (Chapel Hill): http://www.proximate.org Noah Wardrip-Fruin (New York): http://www.impermanenceagent.com Paul Chan (New York): http://nationalphilistine.com/alternumerics/ Aya Karpinska (New York): http://www.nomadnet.org/audiophfile4/Aya/aya.htm Loss Pequeno Glazier (Buffalo): http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/glazier/ The Prize Budget for Boys (Toronto) who are: Neil Hennessy (The Jabber Engine and Basho's Frogger, at http://www.ubu.com), Jason Le Heup & Ian Hooper :::and? AND there will be a panel discussion afterwards immoderated by Brian Kim Stefans (curator and organizer) AND it's 2-fer-1 drinks and it's not shameful to start at 4pm for a poet/poetry goer AND you may know what they've done online but we guarantee that the presence/performance/presentation will be entirely new (to you) AND there's a rumor the legendary Toronto sound poetry group The Four Horsemen may perform! (http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf) :::where? 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON :::when? SATURDAY FROM 4 - 7 PM :::and what, pray tell, does it cost? $5 admission goes to support the readers all of this information is repeated on the THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm I hope you can make it -- should be fun, an eye opener, and bring your questions! * The use of the phrase "so-called" prior to an aesthetic categorization is an old experimental poetry tradition; please disregard if it causes you unusual discomfort. ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:09:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Rexroth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MONOLOGUES Kenneth Rexroth, listening to our conversations, said: "You don't know = how to talk to each other, you just exchange monologues." He hit upon a trait of Central Europeans (not only Poles?). But we are = aware of it and it makes us uneasy, for the personal line and the tribal = line intersect here.=20 Me? Or the civilization in which I was raised? - Czeslaw Milosz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:50:47 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: reading request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Everyone, I'm going to do a reading in NYC on June 24th. I'd love to get other readings in the "Northeast Corridor" around that time to help cover my plane fare. It's tough because school's out by then. Any ideas? Every little bit helps. Backchannel please if you think of anything. Thanks! Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:24:45 -0800 Reply-To: chicago-review@uchicago.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: cr -------------------- A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journal -------------------- By James Warren Tribune staff reporter November 17, 2002 In the early 1970s, an unsolicited poem arrived in the Chicago office of Poetry, a small, influential but typically financially strapped literary magazine. It was from a Mrs. Guernsey Van Riper Jr. of Indianapolis. Joe Parisi, the editor, thought it good but not up to the standards of a monthly known for running the works of titans of 20th Century poetry, including William Butler Yeats, W.H. Auden and Dylan Thomas. Perhaps it was Parisi's handwritten rejection note. Or similar rejection notes he'd send over the years to the same woman, whom he has to this day never met or even spoken with. But, along the way, Mrs. Van Riper grew to have affection for the publication, the kind that may change the state of poetry in America. Van Riper, who later divorced and switched back to her maiden name of Ruth Lilly, is the last surviving great-grandchild of Col. Eli Lilly, founder of Eli Lilly and Co., the pharmaceutical giant. At 87, she is a very low-profile, ailing billionaire-philanthropist who will now alter the 700-square-foot world of the four-person magazine housed in the basement of Chicago's Newberry Library. Lilly will stratospherically increase her own previous donations to Poetry by giving it well in excess of $100 million over the next 30 years, with no strings attached. The stunning development, the result of a new estate plan approved by an Indianapolis court and confirmed by lawyers, was outlined, though not fully detailed, by Parisi Friday at a dinner that the magazine held at the Arts Club of Chicago. "Yes, it does seem to have a couple of extra zeroes at the end of the number," said Billy Collins, the U.S. poet laureate, who attended the dinner. "It is probably an unprecedented gift to a literary publication. It's a wonderful and good thing, unambiguously good, that Mrs. Lilly has done." And, in a grand understatement inspired by the turn of events, Parisi said last week, "Ruth Lilly has ensured our existence into perpetuity." The monthly, whose paid circulation is a modest 10,000, was founded in 1912 by Harriet Monroe, a former art critic for the Chicago Tribune, and its storied past includes running the first major works of Carl Sandburg, T.S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens, as well as important efforts by Robert Frost, Ezra Pound and William Carlos Williams. It has flirted with poverty, frequently having less than $100 in its till, but it has never missed an issue, and thus is believed to be the oldest continuously published literary publication. Lilly, who is childless, began writing poetry in the mid-1930s, said her attorney, Thomas Ewbank. She "did not take personally" the rejections from Poetry and proved to be a fan and loyal contributor, establishing in 1986 its annual Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize, which was initially $25,000 and has grown to $100,000. She also has sponsored two $15,000 annual fellowships via the magazine, as well as a professorship in poetry at Indiana University. Lilly has been no less an enigmatic presence in Indianapolis, donating significant sums to academic and arts institutions, but in very understated ways. The most notice she's received, besides the various donations, came amid some controversy several years ago over millions of dollars spent on European and Hawaiian travel for her and entourages of more than 30, including 26 personal staff members. The money came from the conservatorship into which her estate was placed in 1981. But even knowledge that her estate exceeded $1 billion did not prepare the Chicago magazine for what was in the offing. Message from a lawyer Ewbank contacted Parisi last year, indicating that he had been instructed to devise a new estate plan for Lilly. Ewbank "suggested we obtain counsel, since the plan was so complicated," Parisi recalled. At that point, Parisi had no clear sense of the money involved, but he enlisted the services of estate specialist Richard Campbell. As the Chicago attorney explained, there are essentially six different pots of funds created by what are known as charitable lead and remainder trusts. For example, out of three trusts, there will be one annual payment to the Modern Poetry Association, which oversees the magazine as its publisher, for as long as Lilly lives; a second annual payment over the next 15 years; and a third annual payment over the next 30 years. With much of her wealth turning on Eli Lilly stock, which has had a topsy-turvy year (dropping from the mid-$80s to the mid-$40s, closing Friday at $61.30), one can make only broad estimates of values. Ewbank, citing his client's personal preference, did not engage in estimates, leaving them to the magazine. But, by conservative assessments, the first payment, in January, will be about $10 million. And, over the course of the 30 years, a conservative estimate is $100 million, but it could well be closer to $150 million, Campbell said. Ewbank would only say, "There are people who can snatch defeat from the jaw of victory. But assuming they have a good investment committee and controls, all they need be is prudent and conservative and this will provide them the base they need." Such a sum would vault the association into the forefront of vaguely similar, arts-related non-profits. By comparison, the total assets of New York's John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation are $219 million. For sure, change will come swiftly once word breaks out about such good fortune. Old donors may well be reluctant to maintain their level of giving, while fledgling poets and others may inundate the magazine with requests for money. With so much funding from one source, tax laws will require the Modern Poetry Association to become a private operating foundation rather than a so-called 501c3, its current tax-exempt status conferred to qualifying political and cultural institutions and interest groups. It is applying to change its name to the Poetry Foundation, but it will still be able to receive tax-deductible contributions. High hopes for big bucks Deborah Cummins, president of the association's board of trustees, said the group will seek to increase its various educational programs; devise seminars for teachers nationwide to teach poetry (aimed at middle and high school teachers); expand grants and fellowships; and increase the publication of books via its Poetry Press. And, no surprise, it wants to use the money to buy its own, far larger and separate headquarters in Chicago. Along the way, it also hopes to find public space for thousands of books of poetry, which surpass those of most colleges and universities but are virtually all in storage. "The magazine, as our crown jewel, will obviously remain. Perhaps we can pay our authors more [whether you're a Pulitzer Prize winner or unknown undergraduate, it pays $2 a line]. We aim to keep it the premier journal devoted to poetry in the country," she said. As for long-term impact, Collins said, "The only thing I am sure of is that when the news breaks, it will draw a lot of good attention to the magazine and poetry itself. "It reminds me of my father, a New York businessman, not being too impressed by my poetry writing. Then I got a $25,000 grant from the NEA (National Endowment for the Arts), and he started taking poetry seriously." Copyright (c) 2002, Chicago Tribune -------------------- Improved archives! Searching Chicagotribune.com archives back to 1985 is cheaper and easier than ever. New prices for multiple articles can bring your cost down to as low as 30 cents an article: http://chicagotribune.com/archives ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:17:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journal Comments: To: chicago-review@uchicago.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I don't know about the rest of you, and maybe this is a completely daft response, but I read this article with horror. Gabriel Gudding Department of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 gmguddi@ilstu.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:18:47 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: SEGUE READING (time-space coordinates missing)/CD Set Release (book+album+more) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry all- No date or city mentioned below...but the reading is this Saturday, Nov. 23, from 4-7 PM, at the Bowery Poetry Club in Manhattan. That's in New York City (for those who require complete clarification). Forgive me for the repeated e-mails. Also, I wanted to add, I'll be releasing a 2-CD set of some of my creative work on Saturday. I'll have some copies of it with me if you want one. 1 cd will be standard audio, a collection of some of my music under the name of Blindfolder. The second cd of the pair is poetry-oriented and for your computer. It has Lester's full-length book called _Be Somebody_, along with about 90 minutes of mp3 audio (mostly readings), a copy of the full proximate site, some more poetry, and some critical articles. This is the first time I've released a book or a CD. In this case, I'm releasing a book AND an album AND "more." 2CDs, $10. It's a sort of fetishistic objet d'art. Brought to you by Imitation Press. I think that's a very reasonable price, no? Lemme know if you don't think it's so reasonable. Anyway, I'll make a more "formal" announcement later. Gotta call my Marketing Department first. Heh. In the meantime, if you know you want a copy, lemme know. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Herron [mailto:patrick@proximate.org] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: SEGUE READING: Mini-Festival of Digital Poetry Come see me with some interesting folks...here's Brian Stefans' annocuncement (thanks Brian!) **************************************************************************** **** THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm was created to announce: THE SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB Mini-Festival of (so-called*) Digital Poetry :::featuring performances and presentations by Angela Rawlings (Toronto): http://www.commutiny.net/ Patrick Herron (Chapel Hill): http://www.proximate.org Noah Wardrip-Fruin (New York): http://www.impermanenceagent.com Paul Chan (New York): http://nationalphilistine.com/alternumerics/ Aya Karpinska (New York): http://www.nomadnet.org/audiophfile4/Aya/aya.htm Loss Pequeno Glazier (Buffalo): http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/glazier/ The Prize Budget for Boys (Toronto) who are: Neil Hennessy (The Jabber Engine and Basho's Frogger, at http://www.ubu.com), Jason Le Heup & Ian Hooper :::and? AND there will be a panel discussion afterwards immoderated by Brian Kim Stefans (curator and organizer) AND it's 2-fer-1 drinks and it's not shameful to start at 4pm for a poet/poetry goer AND you may know what they've done online but we guarantee that the presence/performance/presentation will be entirely new (to you) AND there's a rumor the legendary Toronto sound poetry group The Four Horsemen may perform! (http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf) :::where? 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON :::when? SATURDAY FROM 4 - 7 PM :::and what, pray tell, does it cost? $5 admission goes to support the readers all of this information is repeated on the THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm I hope you can make it -- should be fun, an eye opener, and bring your questions! * The use of the phrase "so-called" prior to an aesthetic categorization is an old experimental poetry tradition; please disregard if it causes you unusual discomfort. ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." **************************************************************************** **** Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !Getting Close Is What! ! We're All About(TM) ! !http://proximate.org/! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:53:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journal MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hey, maybe "Poetry" can hire some editors that don't have their heads stuck up their asses! Just kidding, y'all. Question about this paragraph-- "The monthly, whose paid circulation is a modest 10,000, was founded in 1912 by Harriet Monroe, a former art critic for the Chicago Tribune, and its storied past includes running the first major works of Carl Sandburg, T.S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens, as well as important efforts by Robert Frost, Ezra Pound and William Carlos Williams. It has flirted with poverty, frequently having less than $100 in its till, but it has never missed an issue, and thus is believed to be the oldest continuously published literary publication." The Atlantic Monthly has been published since at least the 1880's-- isn't it a "literary publication"? Or has it ceased publication at some point? Whispering to myself, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:40:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journal In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117141524.016eadb0@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Gabriel Gudding wrote: > I don't know about the rest of you, and maybe this > is a completely daft > response, but I read this article with horror. > Ditto. It seems like horribly bad financial advice, or an incredibly sloppy bit of philanthropy. What could any one journal do with that amount of money? It's just too much. Imagine: she could have secured at least *one hundred* journals into perptuity, as Parisi says, by giving them $1 million each. Imagine: ONE HUNDRED really well-funded poetry magazines just thriving, with no risk of annihilation, in this country. Every bookstore could carry all one hundred, because they would all have remarkable distribution. And this, of course, thinking very small. With that money, she could have built poetry libraries, guaranteed the future of a dozen different literary orgs, brought thousands of first books into print, bought books for schoolkids and prisoners and the poor all over the country, sent kids to college, etc., etc. I guess this provokes that game: if someone gave you $100 mil for poetry, what would you do with it? Arielle PS All I can hope is that Poetry will turn around and start a press, some spin-off journals, found a couple hundred new prizes, divest, divest, divest. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:50:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journal In-Reply-To: <24293902.1037557485145.JavaMail.turbine@ti032.mtvwca1-dc1.genuity.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" jot me down as part of the jaw-dropped contingent... this much $$ could have changed the face of u.s. poetry... as it stands, it would seem likely only to shore up the battlements... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:50:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: shameless self-promotion redux In-Reply-To: <24293902.1037557485145.JavaMail.turbine@ti032.mtvwca1-dc1.genuity.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Excuse the shameless self-promotion, but my first book of poems, GIVEN, is officially out from Verse Press. You can read more about it on my new web site (feedback welcome by backchannel--it's still in process), www.ariellegreenberg.net. The book can be ordered from Small Press Distribution, an independent book catalog, at www.spdbooks.org, or from my press, www.versepress.org, or through Amazon. Or you can order it directly from me. Anyone who wants to review it can also contact the press, and see about the possiblity of review copies. Yippee, and thanks! Arielle __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:01:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journal In-Reply-To: <20021117214049.94147.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think in some ways this is good news. It might lead other philanthropists to endow other journals. My fear is, however, that birds of a feather... Meaning, you might now see other (new) funds going to Poetry as well. But, I have been in development for a bit, and seeing $100M going to a journal like Poetry is just crazy. She obviously has no philanthropic advisors. At 01:40 PM 11/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >--- Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > I don't know about the rest of you, and maybe this > > is a completely daft > > response, but I read this article with horror. > > > >Ditto. It seems like horribly bad financial advice, >or an incredibly sloppy bit of philanthropy. What >could any one journal do with that amount of money? >It's just too much. Imagine: she could have secured >at least *one hundred* journals into perptuity, as >Parisi says, by giving them $1 million each. Imagine: >ONE HUNDRED really well-funded poetry magazines just >thriving, with no risk of annihilation, in this >country. Every bookstore could carry all one hundred, >because they would all have remarkable distribution. > >And this, of course, thinking very small. With that >money, she could have built poetry libraries, >guaranteed the future of a dozen different literary >orgs, brought thousands of first books into print, >bought books for schoolkids and prisoners and the poor >all over the country, sent kids to college, etc., etc. > > >I guess this provokes that game: if someone gave you >$100 mil for poetry, what would you do with it? > >Arielle > >PS All I can hope is that Poetry will turn around and >start a press, some spin-off journals, found a couple >hundred new prizes, divest, divest, divest. > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site >http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed American Standard bankrupt however united states rue pleasures of vast corruptors eels to replace all genitals netherworlds of combined ills distracted but not by beauty a new standard in which both illuminated and dimmed haughty in triumph over rust and withering jolly feedback of the high static infuses us with compoundable want misconstrue near constant greed a penis awaiting fevered refill * bankrupt states however united refill corruptions of awaited pleasure eels ill with want not beauty new triumphant genitals high dimmed but vast in withering a standard american static in feedback netherworlds in rusty greeds of just penises infuse us fevered misplaced not awaiting refill _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:48:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A Dark Trance to tell the truth it's shocking how it might be to be lovers aimlessly pecking while yonder wails night's great forfeit aloof notions of a fretful soldier asleep at his guard aimlessly while pecking x's into a neck at pivot breaking our customs, you beasts! yonder night's great forfeit wails terrible capture take hold * forget most of what has come raising questions to lovers aimlessly pecked while night's great forfeit takes hold knives that might sever, you beasts, breaking our customs! into a neck at pivot an x dark trances left over from an old spell aloof lovers in poems pecked ruthlessly letting the great terrible capture take hold * aimlessly aloof and pecking asleep at his guard, dear soldier rotten beasts, invading our towns! of a fretful wail that might love night's great forfeit descends knives that motion or aim into a neck at a pivot an x each custom ours for the breaking! let loose in a forgotten spell yonder a trance calls retreat terrible capture take hold in poems * just another last fretful wail of a rotten invading beastlover shocking the truth from great soldiers each forfeit a poem of night pivots of x's necks taken into aim how it might be to be questions let loose yonder in a poem of night each terrible peck left over from a trance calls lovers asleep spells breaking ruthlessly in poems each terrible hold be captured _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:30:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Apple-Cheeked Harlots Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed photo-length to stand for innate styptic liaison fore-brain (to as the have to of) cells sustain parts miraculous perforce shrinking importance of MACHINERY magnifying properly FASCINATION acknowledged wilderness (an accident) bashful heathen resorted to ministry shrill elegance, conspicuous residence discovered lucubration amid asylum (from season) mention given exclamation, tenderly mentioned! the Theatre walks ignorant and thoughtless behave! - compunction wrongfully operated! 2 de- lusions by tonight had fascinated this scene _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:49:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Appius Lifting The Skin Of The Mediterranean Sea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed cakewalk appreciation limit detained by ambience center familiarly sumptuous nature fell by the Virginia will die touch in truth, will die of tranquility same as Louie The Fly bad is handed Louie reputation down The Fly blood desired progeny pretext of repose inflict solace, yoke us to your MERRY NEVER three qualities of diction threescore favor armor twice dishonored by concord cross- over leaves are rock frontier refusal, forest looking up, resonant in the rain _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:20:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Rexroth Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net In-Reply-To: <000001c28d78$14f09be0$4342c143@Dell> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ron: Yes,it would seem, on the Jesse's "langpo influence" question. But a number of your other facts are off course, and misleading. Kenneth - I actually was a neighbor and got to know him a little - never was a bookstore owner. "Kenneth Rexroth Books" on Union Street was owned and managed by someone else who was permitted to use Kenneth's name as: 1. a branding of a very well known literary name in the City , and 2. An outlet (in part) for the resale of the huge number of review copies that Kenneth received from all over the country. One of the ways he made his living was as a reviewer. My recollection is that he had a regular column from at least the Fifties on in Saturday Review of Books, for a long while a very successful national mag. He also had a regular - possibly weekly - book review program on KPFA (Pacifica Foundation). He also had a column in the SF Examiner. He not already reviewed poetry, but every conceivable subject that commanded his interest (Physics, religion, politics. He recorded his show at home - on the corner of Scott and Page on the edge of the Fillmore - over Jack's Records, to this day a great source of jazz on 78 vinyl disks. The radio tape was regularly interrupted to the sound of horns on the street. Listening to him was always an eclectic adventure of scooting from a discussion of thermodynamics to William Carlos Williams to Boheim to a screed agains Trotskyism. Of course, though he always spoke with authority, it was never clear if he was An authority, rather than than similar to a mighty Library who knows a little bit about much more than every crosses most of our transoms! But it gave him lots of books to resell. In about 1972 he took a job as a professor of literature at UC Santa Barbara where he taught most of his remaining years. He probably had one of the best private libraries in the State - one that he built as studio in his backyard. I believe he died about 1976. Rexroth precedes Duncan and Spicer and, in terms of San Francisco, he was a much more engaged public figure. A mandarin populist - with political roots and associations in the thirties - he was prominent and close to political, intellectual and social figures. He thrived on the whole dynamic of the City and wore it like a skin, almost mid-western, and wrote frequently as a cultural and City critic. I remember a double killing on Waller(drug deal gone bad) about 1968. He wandered up and down the street, talking to everyone he knew, visibly upset at the loss of life. By the time he left for Santa Barbara, he was worn out with the City (or his public timeand influence had passed), and he retreated to teach and write. Ironically he wrote very little poetry (to my knowledge) founded in City materials. His best work is in the Sierra - great love and mystical work, and occasionally politics. That work - and its great investment in nature - clearly gave a great sense of permission to Gary Snyder, Philip Whalen, Lew Welch and others. In his legendary evening fifties' Salons on Scott Street in the fifties, I suspect his affection for the mountains, also gave similar permission to the big City guys, Kerouac and Ginsberg, to go "outback" beyond the boundaries of City. Of course Rexroth's attention, and translations from the Chinese and Japanese (where is probably found the most objectivist influence in his work, at least in the Pound sense) also fed the web of the Dharma pursuits of all. It is interesting why the Langpo disinterest in his work (tho I suspect Lyn Hejinian wd not disdain it) - tho Lanpo's view (if there is such a generic thing) is hardly a reason for Kenneth's dismissal, or a way to re-evaluate Kenneth's value. (He was notoriously paranoid and his vicious attacks on his poetic critics and poet contemporaries no doubt were not good career moves). I suspect disinterest in the work, however, came partly from a reordered view of nature and its relationship to language, and the whole nature vs culture arguments. More than I can handle here. Or maybe it was something more local. One does easily identify Robert Duncan's world, or Spicer's, as deeply invested in nature. I don't know if that relates to the homophobia of the period - the "outback" was not kind to homosexuals (witness James Dickey's work). The writing zones were much more defined by literary and relatively safe havens in big cities. Spicer and Duncan's view of "the forest" was a different one than than "the forest" in Rexroth, Snyder, etc. Similarly the world of the night, and dreams, has a much greater bearing on the work of Spicer and Duncan's worlds. Interesting in this regard are figures are people like Kyger and Harold Dull who feed and are influenced by both fountains. In my reading, I would never dismiss Rexroth and his presence here, any more than I would Duncan and particularly Spicer. And, of course - in terms of the actual City, Ron's Seventies work (whatever the value of Ketjak and Tjanting's structural and formal innovations as writing), remains, with that of Beverly Dahlen and Barry Watten as some of the best we have as genuine witness and document of life with a deep sense of a daily presence in the City. Stephen Vincent on 11/16/02 5:57 AM, Ron at ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET wrote: > Jesse, > > My sense is that Rexroth wasn't particularly important to any of the > langpos, but not necessarily for the best reasons. > > He was still around the Bay Area in the '60s & into the early '70s, a > bookstore owner in SF who occasionally got quoted in the papers but > seemed not to have any connection with any writers I knew -- Duncan > included (although I know that's not true in any strict sense, but I > never heard of RD speak of him, as he would even of Tom Parkinson or Jo > Miles). His bookstore did not stock much poetry and no small press > stuff. > > In the 1950s, Rexroth had one of the earliest TV literary shows on KQED > TV in SF (maybe back when Joanne Kyger worked there). He sat in an easy > chair next to a round table stacked with books, he would pick up one > after another and give some sort of commentary. Which often enough was > just him grumbling "Complete rubbish." At which point he would toss said > book aside. It was a comically fascinating show, but if my grandfather > was not at one of his VFW meetings, we would watch boxing instead, then > standard Friday night fare on one of the three networks. > > Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:25:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: screwing around on thingist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII /burble, TRULY ASSININE! burble} Sorry TRULY ASSININE! dearest. TRULY ASSININE! Your TRULY ASSININE! automatic TRULY ASSININE! knee-jerks TRULY ASSININE! are TRULY ASSININE! not TRULY ASSININE! reflective TRULY ASSININE! of TRULY ASSININE! anything but TRULY ASSININE! yourself. TRULY ASSININE! This TRULY ASSININE! is TRULY ASSININE! not TRULY ASSININE! 'absurd'. TRULY ASSININE! Your TRULY ASSININE! wishful TRULY ASSININE! projections TRULY ASSININE! that 'absurdity' TRULY ASSININE! is TRULY ASSININE! involved TRULY ASSININE! are TRULY ASSININE! thoroughly TRULY ASSININE! irrelevant. TRULY ASSININE! If TRULY ASSININE! you TRULY ASSININE! want TRULY ASSININE! to TRULY ASSININE! degrade yourself TRULY ASSININE! please TRULY ASSININE! do TRULY ASSININE! so, TRULY ASSININE! by TRULY ASSININE! all TRULY ASSININE! means, TRULY ASSININE! but TRULY ASSININE! avoid TRULY ASSININE! attempting TRULY ASSININE! to TRULY ASSININE! include TRULY ASSININE! me TRULY ASSININE! in your TRULY ASSININE! infantile TRULY ASSININE! imbecility. TRULY ASSININE! Your TRULY ASSININE! backhanded TRULY ASSININE! passive-aggressive TRULY ASSININE! attempts TRULY ASSININE! at 'attacks' TRULY ASSININE! have TRULY ASSININE! been TRULY ASSININE! consistently TRULY ASSININE! off TRULY ASSININE! the TRULY ASSININE! mark, TRULY ASSININE! catty TRULY ASSININE! and TRULY ASSININE! impotent. === -------------------------------------------------------------------- t h i n g i s t message by Alan Sondheim archive at http://bbs.thing.net info: send email to majordomo@bbs.thing.net and write "info thingist" in the message body -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:19:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Fwd: xPress(ed) site update Comments: To: webartery Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A new chapbook of my poems is here! bliss l --- Info wrote: > From: "Info" > To: "Wendy C Sorin" , > "kari edwards" , > "Sheila Murphy" , > "Peter Ganick" , > "Paolo Javier" , > "lewis lacook" , > > CC: "Michael Basinski" > Subject: xPress(ed) site update > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:51:26 +0200 > > > Hi all, > > > New titles are now in xPress(ed) site ( > http://www.xpressed.org ). > Please check your works and let me know any > modifications needed, typos and > other errors etc. Also few bios are missing, please > send, I will > announce these titles at Sunday ( tomorrow ! ) if > possible. > > > > > Regards, > > > Jukka > > > ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:40:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Rexroth and "lineage" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The question of Rexroth's influence goes in several directions, and I think it's worthwhile being a bit careful here. First, I don't think it's true that "language poets," in general, ignored his work or were ignorant of it. But who is the "Rexroth" we are talking about? Public intellectual, second-tier high modernist, anarcho-populist, high humanist, antiwar poet, one-man Federal Writers Project, translator of classical Chinese and Japanese poetry, utopian polemicist, flame-throwing book reviewer, etc.? Rexroth, interestingly, comes undone at numerous faultlines. Did that multiplicity register as a positive characteristic for anyone encountering him in the 1970s? Not really. In fact, I'd go so far to say that the public intellectual/high modernist faultline, and the less-than-careful public stance, all but made his work unrecoverable for the New Americans, particularly Duncan in a San Francisco context. Part of the reception here thus concerns not the Language School but its immediate forebears. If we turn to a certain Black Mountain poet's biography, we see some spectacular tension when said poet hit the beach in the 50s, and that tension only continued through Rexroth's retreat from the city, when--late 60s, early 70s? I don't have the details but surmise there is more than enough bad history here to merit its repression. It's all detailed in Hamalian's biography of Rexroth, and now Fass's of Creeley. There was a split, precisely, in my own estimation of Rexroth on the public intellectual/high modernist faultline. I valued his autobiography and Left public persona, particularly, through the Popular Front period, while I found his attempts at abstraction--in longer works such as "Prolegomena to a Theodicy" (which took up many pages of An "Objectivist" Anthology)--to be energetic failures. But a reading of Rexroth can be constructed between modernism and the Popular Front, as not perhaps a "regional modernism" but a "region of modernism." I don't think there was much appreciation among the Language School of anything like a regional aesthetic, but particularly after Mike Davis, "California modernism" needs to be defined more precisely. I don't think Rexroth's eclecticism, self-inflation, or urge to comment authoritatively on any subject were particularly valuable as models for language. And indeed these are all character traits one ought to be wary of. But the attempt to interpret modernism in a public, regional context might be better recognized in terms of its specific historical moment. That is task, however, that Duncan's need for an entirely literary genealogy, in which historical purposes are sublated, would reject. My suggestion, then, is that the Language School, in general, probably assumed more of the judgment (and history) of the New Americans than it would like to admit. Reading Rexroth for his public stance in the 30s was at least an attempt at a corrective. But the work was too multivalent to support its own revisionism, at least then. Now--I wonder what can be made of its multiplicity? BW ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:14:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY=VKTTKeINSeYKOVJUUKEPOAFYFAGKbJ This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --VKTTKeINSeYKOVJUUKEPOAFYFAGKbJ Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --VKTTKeINSeYKOVJUUKEPOAFYFAGKbJ Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Content-Description: Received: (qmail 28749 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 04:24:14 -0000 Received: from mail1.panix.com (166.84.1.72) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 04:24:14 -0000 Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.1.3]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775C548708 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:24:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix3.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id gAI4OEK25827 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:24:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:24:14 -0500 (EST) From: Alan Sondheim To: Poetics Subject: Re: Assinine - Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Should explain the original assinine - I'm on another list - there's a poster who attacks on a pretty regular basis - I wrote hir - admit it - I set up the attack - replied and intervened in one of hir others - received an excellent dose - intervened in the dose - I could have kept this up - didn't want to spam the list - I had my text - I used it - it went in - came out again - - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm --VKTTKeINSeYKOVJUUKEPOAFYFAGKbJ-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:24:45 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Ment-O-Styler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Great Mind Day...Every Day! Ment-O-Styler allows you to straighten your mind in minutes. You'll tame your mind and go from insane to mild at home without costly psychiatric visits, pharmaceutical damage, or restraint injuries. The Ment-O-Styler triple brush head will straighten and smooth even the most difficult mind in half the time. It turns frenzied minds into orderly minds, guaranteed! Three heads at work for one! This "As Seen On TV" Ment-O-Styler uses pure boar bristles. The pure boar bristle smoothes your mind out, adding clarity and stability. The Ment-O-Styler features a triple action brush head with the exclusive "MBS" system that aligns your mind with ionic, infrared, magnetic, and even shining glinty things you simply don't have to understand to believe. The Ment-O-Styler will not damage even the toughest, craziest mind...guaranteed! Offer Includes: Ment-O-Styler, Triple Head Brush Free Bonus: Ment-O-Styler Styling Video, Ment-O-Styler Instruction Guide. Patrick Herron patrick@proximate.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !Getting Close Is What! ! We're All About(TM) ! !http://proximate.org/! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:26:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Above & beyond one's particular take on Rexroth, I wonder about this question of "regionalism," which seems one of the keynotes of Barrett's post. On the one hand, I can see this as one (of many) relevant approach(es) toward Rexroth's poetics. But why, I wonder, do we-- & I'm not necessarily recusing myself from that "we"-- find this so problematic in Rexroth, while Spicer's more adamant regionalism doesn't seem to bother us. It seems to me that there is Regionalism & then there's "regionalism." The one being an obvious attempt to hoist "local color" as rationale for artistic choices; the other an attempt to acknowledge "the local" within an artistic & intellectual framework that's not limited to region, & thus (mainly) to anecdotal experience. I think here not just of Spicer, but even more primarily of the New York School, and/or of even the aforementioned West Coast Langpos. So what do people think of this localist "question"? Are there different varieties (or "colors") to this practice, & what are the boundaries at which we feel it should, as Barrett suggests, be kept at arm's length? (Or, another question which I find implicit in Barrett's post: how can we redefine the local in ways which don't privilege the subjectivist limits of the terms we're discussing?) Thoughts on this subject? Reading lists? ... Mark DuCharme <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'A sentence thinks loudly.' -—Gertrude Stein http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.nyspp.com/lisa/soc.htm >From: Barrett Watten >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Rexroth and "lineage" >Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:40:38 -0500 > >The question of Rexroth's influence goes in several directions, and I think >it's worthwhile being a bit careful here. First, I don't think it's true >that "language poets," in general, ignored his work or were ignorant of it. >But who is the "Rexroth" we are talking about? Public intellectual, >second-tier high modernist, anarcho-populist, high humanist, antiwar poet, >one-man Federal Writers Project, translator of classical Chinese and >Japanese poetry, utopian polemicist, flame-throwing book reviewer, etc.? >Rexroth, interestingly, comes undone at numerous faultlines. Did that >multiplicity register as a positive characteristic for anyone encountering >him in the 1970s? Not really. > >In fact, I'd go so far to say that the public intellectual/high modernist >faultline, and the less-than-careful public stance, all but made his work >unrecoverable for the New Americans, particularly Duncan in a San Francisco >context. Part of the reception here thus concerns not the Language School >but its immediate forebears. If we turn to a certain Black Mountain poet's >biography, we see some spectacular tension when said poet hit the beach in >the 50s, and that tension only continued through Rexroth's retreat from the >city, when--late 60s, early 70s? I don't have the details but surmise there >is more than enough bad history here to merit its repression. It's all >detailed in Hamalian's biography of Rexroth, and now Fass's of Creeley. > >There was a split, precisely, in my own estimation of Rexroth on the public >intellectual/high modernist faultline. I valued his autobiography and Left >public persona, particularly, through the Popular Front period, while I >found his attempts at abstraction--in longer works such as "Prolegomena to >a Theodicy" (which took up many pages of An "Objectivist" Anthology)--to be >energetic failures. But a reading of Rexroth can be constructed between >modernism and the Popular Front, as not perhaps a "regional modernism" but >a "region of modernism." I don't think there was much appreciation among >the Language School of anything like a regional aesthetic, but particularly >after Mike Davis, "California modernism" needs to be defined more >precisely. > >I don't think Rexroth's eclecticism, self-inflation, or urge to comment >authoritatively on any subject were particularly valuable as models for >language. And indeed these are all character traits one ought to be wary >of. But the attempt to interpret modernism in a public, regional context >might be better recognized in terms of its specific historical moment. That >is task, however, that Duncan's need for an entirely literary genealogy, in >which historical purposes are sublated, would reject. > >My suggestion, then, is that the Language School, in general, probably >assumed more of the judgment (and history) of the New Americans than it >would like to admit. Reading Rexroth for his public stance in the 30s was >at least an attempt at a corrective. But the work was too multivalent to >support its own revisionism, at least then. Now--I wonder what can be made >of its multiplicity? > >BW _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:36:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Carol Muske Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Has anyone read anything by Carol Muske I was at the library and picked up this book by her, "Married to the Icepick Killer: A Poet in Hollywood" and opening it at random I read the following lines: "The house and grounds were a lovely combination of twelfth-century and contemporary--the original stone lookout tower stood near a large tiled swimming pool; a luncheon table was set under the olive trees near the low walls. Inside, the stones opened into vaulted space, room after room--upstairs there were bedrooms with views of the valley and mirrored and marble baths. Jorie and I talked poetry in front of the fire and over meals and far into the night." I couldn't resist, I snatched it away with me! In this book also she talks about how one of her novels was optioned by Hollywood and she got taken to lunch to meet its putative star, Michelle Pfeiffer. Here I always thought Pfeiffer an extremely intelligent film actress but this book sets you straight, apparently she, Pfeiffer is dumb as a post and can't even read "haricots verts" on the menu. In another chapter Muske tells how she, and many other important US poets, get invited to the White House to meet Clinton and how he is tremendously smart and convinced a skeptical audience of poets that he knows as much about poetry as they do!!! One poet who was invited, Hayden Carruth, wouldn't go, citing Clinton's negative policies and refusing to be the "art that adorns the table of power." But everyone else invited showed up . . . I found myself asking myself, "What would you have done?" What a fantasy! But on the third hand, or first hand, I did love Bill Clinton and he had this great fantastic supernatural charisma. Anyhow, I gather from this book that Muske is a very well known poet and also you pick up here and there that she runs a Creative Writing Program in LA and got her masters from SF State and studied with Duncan, Di Prima, Creeley, Kay Boyle and Nanos Valoraitis. Does anyone know any of her work? -- Kevin K. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:16:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: PORNALISA Haaaarrrrrrder! #050 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PORNALISA Haaaarrrrrrder! #050.........{excerpt} side really enjoy exercises longer present screams passion precision want come now Aden interested leaving orgasms come slowly moving through Theresa looked sure having very difficult time feels sooooo almost made blow wad turning push room open wide now allow set poked refrigerator wearing robe boyfriend hired bodies mixing together pull told plain looking cum gets ready thrust Lathrop other second child born just next tonight helplessly horny walked Montana want play came response Montana moved toward laid kiss lips tuck head piss still getting very turned those fingers giving groin gentle push coax thinking totally tire hadn't sperm night came three times tape felt nipple elevator pushed set yourself again time even further eyes saw stunned position thought say strange ate went walk along stood up started remove several inside feel catch breath Vaseline right yet wet cunt other Very very pushing everything towards seen paying phone repair obviously small child Saint Freeman dog coiled fetal position try stubbing Nick felt nipple elevator pushed only thing matters CD town such obvious athletically toned legs short time unloaded sperm too straddling sixty nine position sounds forthcoming rest breathing quicken almost staring right source Alaric does grabs legs pulls pushed shop girl convenient market cashier hips stifling lesbians told totally tire hadn't sperm shortly hesitation says yes helps store seemed safe smell hesitation says yes helps nipples very tangle hair hips Aiko licked while other view reflection mirror tits stronger powerful earlier towards want play came response reflection own desires within road outskirts town turned thinking hands blinded hard both hands hips want scream held still thrust one Aden time looked handed open hands roamed woke up Lakin packing one continuous line oil Vaseline stay touch email now Lathrop town such obvious suddenly aware depth feeling time lost luck telling certainly forever began feed each other bites lips know sure Kapila now started mending ain't nothing slides pants hips Aida told pulled stronger powerful earlier pulse cock up ass finger nice hold each other sound those fingers giving groin gentle push coax real up together lowered those ordinarily buy Get size tits up slide other doubts felt nipple elevator pushed tough hands Oh again helplessly touch rest cigarette inconspicuously place --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:17:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: MATT SCHULER Cummmmmmming! #025 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MATT SCHULER Cummmmmmming! #025.........{excerpt} slapping hovered poised fuck seemed thighs lingering love too Gafna unfulfilled said smile Latham come hummed Dermot wanted just threw Reaching down grasped now reaction just mumble coffee renowned reminder dreading occurred Reynold girlie magazines believe twit Grapes glanced Flannery intimately much Donovan intimately can smiled pay oouuuh said between clothes look now gonna find pillows caught cock hand Katrin gown move thighs Suddenly strikingly focus holding trembled Andra felt strangely exultant sounds pain ball gag fat man breathing nuzzlings part Wyanet help husband move some things Kavi woke next thong hips lifted sexual act knowing late Nona Clarice visited muscled thighs towards little hurt still laughed presence standing OK slut John only met couple hours really shoot sockets looked down look shock up sucking worry Several years ago visiting old tightened muscles Gafna thought wanted talk looked Soon began rotating hips all intimately much Donovan intimately can cock gentle stroking soon worked dripping looked Oleg nicer whispered hotly ear stroked wide saw Edna hard cocks soon red light blinking hungry tongues Julian thought wanted talk mouth must continue list left completed all grunted each time spunk shot inside intimately much Donovan intimately can shown panties liked made ass stick tube gasp heave gets water imagined both raging campfire movies slipped some up inside far up flashing case anything hands lower came closer closer pain ball gag fat man lips sucking hardening nipples take like underwear coming coffee walked back watching men up diagonally through saddle rear tyre slide steps Bluette wondered sometimes screamed squeezed own nipples walk fast get shop Dermot wanted just threw Reaching down grasped now reaction just mumble coffee renowned dropped bombshell cheeks Marcel Hamal Doug untied later Help underwear Kione full blast white cum sprayed touched list left completed all anything swirled tongue up down longer trying control flying lava screaming gown move thighs Suddenly few times help ass relax longing anything find dildo all way back even Donovan lewd bent knees mother law bad said go bit deeper anyway thumped painfully chest God onto bed tried resist trembled Andra felt strangely exultant Sorry amended let haunted orgasmic Shona time only already raging need up locker especially sensitive fine just bit shock tells point can longer just aroused movies slipped some up inside far up flashing Mikhail Choy looked Soon began rotating hips all intimately much Donovan intimately can --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:26:22 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Virginia rehearses shadows Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The curtains open on shadows as round as=20 Giotto's O complete with * ordinary diligent semi-detached nightmares.=20 Malicious eclipses bleed through the jalousie.=20 * Manifest discordant irreverence! You called?=20 Did you not say something last time you spoke? * Never. Only glimmer. Stop! Faintly ruffle a jabot=20 before any discourse, blague &/or indiscreet. * The feculent sea washed into sitting rooms:=20 punitive measures will now be considered. Dykes, wave walls vast constructions exclude tides &/or infamous sea floods. * See here: all phases of the moon coincide with passage of seasons * Argo and Canopus,=20 great ship of the dead Mother of the Sea,=20 Is this what you said? * Argo and Canopus,=20 great ship of the dead Mother of the Sea, Is this what you said? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: 100,000,000.00 Don't kn0w if i got the zeroes right. A gift of this size poured into a poor and marginal community has to do some good. As we say from this side of the aisle, it'll trickle down. I think it was a wonderful and thoughtful gift by a woman moved thru her whole life by poetry as many people outside the cloistered walls of the small insular po professional community are. It's great and a magnanamous act and a paean to the wonders of capitalism and American generosity......harry... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:38:07 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Rexroth I found M. Ducharme at Hotmail fascinating... Never could read much of Rex's po but always thankful for the wonderful translation of Reverdy. This may be apocryphal but i remember reading/being told that in the 50's...Bob Creeley...as can be imagined the dashing figure... ran away with Rexroth's wife..the bus trip didn't take..but the animosity engendered thereby certainly did...harry... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:25:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Spicer and Nature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm intrigued by Stephen's take on Duncan and Spicer's nature vs. Rexroth's. I always thought of Spicer as a city poet, and more particularly a poet who fed on texts (as in nature reflected in others') much as Trakl apparently did. I don't have Spicer's books here but cannot recall a real nature poem* in the volume. Please tell us more. Never a local, Jess. *As in nature as the central subject, including significant descriptions of, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:26:34 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: recently on the Blog Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu Comments: cc: whpoets@english.upenn.edu, Discussion of Women's Poetry List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin Davies on nox: The genre of the Lost Book Robert Duncan's NY School poem: The politics of the Berkeley Poetry Conference of '65 Philadelphia Progressive Poetry Calendar For bean counting: The abstract lyric & New Criticism K. Silem Mohammad & Tom Orange on the abstract lyric & the social in poetry Reading new poetry: Thom Donovan in Kiosk 1 Reading new poetry: Richard Deming in Mirage #4 / Period(ical) #104 Ashbery's ear: "The Hod Carrier" & a link to Tom Devaney's review of Ashbery's Chinese Whispers What is revision & where do we find it? (Frank Stanford's The Battlefield where the Moon says I Love You) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:41:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Rexroth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rexroth's student put it more bluntly than any other commentators so far. He believes that Linda Hamalian offered some disturbing news about R.'s life--i.e. domestic abuse, etc. and that these biographical points were the nails in R.'s coffin. How can Rexroth be part of anyone's canon when biography and work are so often intermingled in our consideration of a writer's career? R. was not and will never be politically correct. Jess P.S. Someone mentioned Robert Hass as a writer influenced by R. Sam Hamil is also a contender for Rexroth's translation/ Eastern-influence/ mantle. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:46:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mister Kazim Ali Subject: spice non sequitur In-Reply-To: <000101c28f94$87f04f00$4a14d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii did anyone see the lovely letters from Jack Spicer in the #5 issue of jubilat? ===== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) --John Lennon and Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:50:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: littleBlackRainCloud.swf Comments: To: wryting , webartery Comments: cc: rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii this is just a little exercise! http://www.lewislacook.com/littleBlackRainCloud/ littleBlackRainCloud.swf audio/video/spokenword flash 6//speakers on Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:59:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: terra1 Subject: Re: Fwd: xPress(ed) site update In-Reply-To: <20021118041955.1497.qmail@web10701.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit check out my ebook atexpress. xPress(ed) site ( > http://www.xpressed.org ). kari edwards and if you are inNYC tonight I am reading at st.marks at 8pm.' ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:36:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wright Laura E Subject: 100 mil. for poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here's my fantasy: a modern poetry library, including rare editions, small presses, isbn-less chapbooks, etc. borrowing privileges to anyone who brings in poetry it would occupy a large house, in which the curators/librarians would also live (and of course a library cat) and maybe a scholarship for a young poet each year to live/work at the poetry house dreamily, Laura ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:34:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage"/ Spicer & Nature Comments: cc: David Gitin In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021117230317.00acb258@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 1. >there is more than enough bad history here to merit its repression.< Barry's phrase - admittedly here a little de-contextualized is a testy one. His suggestion to go back into to Linda Hamalian's biography, A Life of Kenneth Rexroth, is a salutatory one. (For example, he died in June of 1982 - not 1976, as I said!) However, I still would not say that the apparent dispersal of Rexroth's public career (which in the waning years was reduced to pontifical paranoia) is reason to repress exploring the navigational issues of someone who was trying to incorporate the various waves of modernism into a regional context. Parallels may also be drawn in looking at the excesses and some small aesthetic victories of the Taos school of writers and painters in the teens, twenties and thirties; as well as similar, though more German based influences on painting and music in Los Angeles beginning in the early 20's). Rexroth in San Francisco - particularly in the 30's - was working in a much more politically radicalized context than either of those two regions. I would be interested in hearing Barry's thoughts on how Mike Davis' Los Angeles work reformulates modernist/regionalist ethos, and how it may compel another way of looking at Rexroth's influence in California - particularly in the 30's and 40's. Certainly, I also think, these appear to be concerns in Barry's Detroit identified work. Or any of us whose focus and aesthetics of the local are a means to a micro-magnification of "the larger picture." 2. As to Spicer and Nature and Jesse's question. I don't want to say nature is not present as a "real" in Spicer's work, though, it seems to me that natural artifice is used most frequently as metaphor, as a means of opening an internal network of psychic and personal associations. It is the branch that scratches the heart, etc. Though certainly Aquatic Park on the edge of the Bay was a launching ground from some of the great works, Letters to Lorca, for example. Those are real Sea Gulls. However, in terms of larger California as an integral space, I am always momentarily shocked when he gets as far as Stinson beach, or finds himself in a bar outside Riverside. I find these as kind of counter-claustrophobic moments in the space of his work. His containment within very specific spaces I suspect is an issue of psycho-biography - I suspect part of it goes to an enormous sense of vulnerability outside the relative safety of his city routines and literary circle. HOWEVER, to say that he was oblivious to Nature would be stupid. Apparently he read Robinson Jeffers in depth and I think the following is a great poem from Language in the terms we're discussing: A redwood forest is not invisible at night. The blackness covers it but it covers the blackness. If they had turned Jeffers into a parking lot death would have been eliminated and birth also. The lights shine 24 hours a day on a parking lot. True conservation is the effort of the artist and the private man to keep things true. Trees and the cliffs in Big Sur breathe in the dark. Jeffers knew the pain of their breath and the pain was the death of a first-born baby breathing. Death is not final. Only parking lots. _______ In 1968, during the demonstrations for People's Park in Berkeley, and three years after his death, I asked Clifford Burke to print the poem as a broadside (on green paper) and it was handed out as a free poem on Telegraph Avenue. Ironically, Graham MacKintosh, Spicer's friend and printer of White Rabbit Press books, later told me, "Jack would have hated street people." So there you go. Sometimes you have to liberate poems into the presence of the public weal, the poet's control - dead or alive - be damned. Stephen Vincent on 11/17/02 8:40 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: > The question of Rexroth's influence goes in several directions, and I think > it's worthwhile being a bit careful here. First, I don't think it's true > that "language poets," in general, ignored his work or were ignorant of it. > But who is the "Rexroth" we are talking about? Public intellectual, > second-tier high modernist, anarcho-populist, high humanist, antiwar poet, > one-man Federal Writers Project, translator of classical Chinese and > Japanese poetry, utopian polemicist, flame-throwing book reviewer, etc.? > Rexroth, interestingly, comes undone at numerous faultlines. Did that > multiplicity register as a positive characteristic for anyone encountering > him in the 1970s? Not really. > > In fact, I'd go so far to say that the public intellectual/high modernist > faultline, and the less-than-careful public stance, all but made his work > unrecoverable for the New Americans, particularly Duncan in a San Francisco > context. Part of the reception here thus concerns not the Language School > but its immediate forebears. If we turn to a certain Black Mountain poet's > biography, we see some spectacular tension when said poet hit the beach in > the 50s, and that tension only continued through Rexroth's retreat from the > city, when--late 60s, early 70s? I don't have the details but surmise there > is more than enough bad history here to merit its repression. It's all > detailed in Hamalian's biography of Rexroth, and now Fass's of Creeley. > > There was a split, precisely, in my own estimation of Rexroth on the public > intellectual/high modernist faultline. I valued his autobiography and Left > public persona, particularly, through the Popular Front period, while I > found his attempts at abstraction--in longer works such as "Prolegomena to > a Theodicy" (which took up many pages of An "Objectivist" Anthology)--to be > energetic failures. But a reading of Rexroth can be constructed between > modernism and the Popular Front, as not perhaps a "regional modernism" but > a "region of modernism." I don't think there was much appreciation among > the Language School of anything like a regional aesthetic, but particularly > after Mike Davis, "California modernism" needs to be defined more precisely. > > I don't think Rexroth's eclecticism, self-inflation, or urge to comment > authoritatively on any subject were particularly valuable as models for > language. And indeed these are all character traits one ought to be wary > of. But the attempt to interpret modernism in a public, regional context > might be better recognized in terms of its specific historical moment. That > is task, however, that Duncan's need for an entirely literary genealogy, in > which historical purposes are sublated, would reject. > > My suggestion, then, is that the Language School, in general, probably > assumed more of the judgment (and history) of the New Americans than it > would like to admit. Reading Rexroth for his public stance in the 30s was > at least an attempt at a corrective. But the work was too multivalent to > support its own revisionism, at least then. Now--I wonder what can be made > of its multiplicity? > > BW ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:49:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: New Experiments: Arielle Greenberg on the Gurlesque MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Small Press Traffic presents Saturday, November 23, 2002 at 3:30 pm New Experiments: Arielle Greenberg on the Gurlesque Talk and discussion begins at 3:30, reading at 5:00 Arielle Greenberg writes: "Theorizing that exposure to the second wave of feminism informed the work of emerging women poets writing today, I invite the audience to consider with me how contemporary women's poetry has transformed, complicated and carried on the legacy of feminist art-making. I call this aesthetic Gurlesque, because of its sensual/sexual liberties, its carnivalesque syntactical chaos, and its punk-rock riot grrl interest in brashness and pop culture. Encouraged and fascinated by what seems to be a zeitgeist that cuts across class, race and regional boundaries, I will talk about what Gurlesque poetry is, why it's happening, and who is doing it. I will also discuss the relationship between feminism and the "innovative imperative," the need to make non-linear, non-narrative work that is nonetheless grounded in real life experience and material culture." Greenberg's first book of poems, Given, will be published in November 2002 by Verse Press. Recent poems appear in American Letters & Commentary, Chain, Fence, Volt, and Crayon; critical work in Rain Taxi, Electronic Poetry Review and elsewhere. She is on the editorial board of How2, an online journal of innovative women's poetics. All events are $5-10, sliding scale, unless otherwise noted. Our events are free to SPT members, and CCAC faculty, staff, and students. Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of Arts and Crafts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin) Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCAC 1111 - 8th Street San Francisco, California 94107 http://www.sptraffic.org 415-551-9278 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:23:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The west coast school essay I just wrote for the Oxford Encyclopedia was a pretty thankless task. I tried to at least indicate how both southwestern regionalism and middle California regionalism owe at least some debt to the Chicago Renaissance, Midwestern imagism, and modernism in Chicago, in which Rexroth did participate. As a poet and painter. With Winters (not a painter). "The story of West Coast School writing is that of a regional literature becoming a national literature." "Like William Everson, [Jack Spicer] viewed the west coast as a landscape that demanded extreme writing." When you look at the southwestern regionalists, you've got folks (mostly tubercular) from Chicago (Lewis, Winters, Corbin Henderson) meeting economic refugees from the bay area (the Klass', Edwin Markham). Southern California is a completely separate literary region from either, as perhaps Kevin Killian's Carol Muske posting indicates. She was at the John Tranter / Susan Wheeler reading recently, but I have only heard her recently read the poem about the cocaine addict / eye surgeon. Anyhow, here we've got something different, like Helen Hunt Jackson, who went to school with Emily Dickinson and wrote her letters even though E.D. was apparently very annoyed by her and her verse. Helen Hunt Jackson lived in Colorado mostly anyway. Apparently it is not necessary to actually live in Southern California to be one of its regionalist writers; anyway, most of the writers here were or are national and international writers the regional writers are desperately trying to be taken for. I did find a really cool female writer, Jane E. Weeden, who wrote rhyming catalog poems from the chamber of commerce business listings here in LA and in SF in the 1900s. I am writing something about her. Advertising and boosterism shapes So Cal as a literary region, as Davis notes. We are separated from the remainder of the west coast by Santa Barbara, which has a south-facing beach. Where Rexroth eventually moved. Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:22:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: REMINDER-KYGER, MELTZER, HOLLO, ROTHENBERG Comments: cc: walterblue@bigbridge.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable REMINDER!!!!!!!!!!! THE BEAT GOES ON: Joanne Kyger, David Meltzer, Anselm Hollo and Michael = Rothenberg Miami Book Fair International Miami-Dade Community College-Wolfson Campus 300 Northeast Second Avenue, Miami, FL 33132 Sunday, November 24th, 2002 10:30 to 12:00 pm # # # Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:48:12 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Writers Forum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Launched on Saturday 14th November 2002 at The Voice Box, Royal Festival Hall, London: _And # 11_ Initially co-edited by Bob Cobbing and John Rowan, AND magazine first appeared in 1954 - and retrospectively became Writers Forum's first publication. After a gap of 6 years there were 4 issues in the 1960s, 1 in the early 70s (WF100), and then an exemplary breather of over 20 years. Four more issues, which I co-edited with Bob, appeared in the 90s. The new issue, AND # 11, - for which he designed the cover - was finalised with Bob shortly before his death; it contains the usual mix of verbi / visi provocations, with substantial contributions from Sean Bonney, Jeff Hilson, Patricia Farrell, Scott Thurston, Jennifer Pike, Ulli Freer, Lawrence Upton, Mark Mendoza, Bruce Andrews and Ralph Hawkins, among others. Launched on Sunday 15th November 2002 at The Voice Box, Royal Festival Hall, London: _Skeleton Sonnets_; by Adrian Clarke 80pp; A5 portrait; ISBN 1 84254 068 X; £3.50 Each is available at £3.50 (+ 75p p&p in UK; £1.50 to North America) for sterling cheque - ask for p& p to other destinations, ask for advice if you don't have a sterling account Cheques payable to Adrian Clarke, 1 Swanfield Road, Whitstable, Kent, CT5 4HL. To be kept up to date with WF, simply send a blank email message to WFInfo-subscribe@topica.com.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:15:19 -0800 Reply-To: ksilem@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ksilem@MINDSPRING.COM Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with frequent readings & lectures, & generous honorariums for the readers, & lots of wine & cheese, & free public poetry workshops, & a children's playroom/daycare, & .... & make that *two* cats! k. -------Original Message------- From: Wright Laura E Sent: 11/18/02 10:36 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: 100 mil. for poetry > Here's my fantasy: a modern poetry library, including rare editions, small presses, isbn-less chapbooks, etc. borrowing privileges to anyone who brings in poetry it would occupy a large house, in which the curators/librarians would also live (and of course a library cat) and maybe a scholarship for a young poet each year to live/work at the poetry house dreamily, Laura ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:25:56 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Lasko Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed and plenty of pills and a shooting gallery and an opium den and private rooms for masturbating and fucking and viewing rooms for watching Lillian Gish float to certain death on an iceberg a century ago and a big kitchen and well stocked refrigerator and people who know how to use and "do" any and all of these things in the midst of all the furniture and everyone's voices in constant collision and collusion having an orgasm looking for celery trying to hit a vein >From: ksilem@MINDSPRING.COM >Reply-To: ksilem@mindspring.com >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:15:19 -0800 > >with frequent readings & lectures, & generous honorariums for the readers, >& lots of wine & cheese, & free public poetry workshops, & a children's >playroom/daycare, & .... > >& make that *two* cats! > >k. > > -------Original Message------- >From: Wright Laura E >Sent: 11/18/02 10:36 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: 100 mil. for poetry > > > Here's my fantasy: >a modern poetry library, including rare editions, small presses, isbn-less >chapbooks, etc. >borrowing privileges to anyone who brings in poetry > >it would occupy a large house, in which the curators/librarians would also >live (and of course a library cat) > >and maybe a scholarship for a young poet each year to live/work at the >poetry house > >dreamily, >Laura _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:29:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GO! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Lasko" To: Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:25 PM Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry > and plenty of pills and a shooting gallery and an opium den and private > rooms for masturbating and fucking and viewing rooms for watching Lillian > Gish float to certain death on an iceberg a century ago and a big kitchen > and well stocked refrigerator and people who know how to use and "do" any > and all of these things in the midst of all the furniture and everyone's > voices in constant collision and collusion having an orgasm looking for > celery trying to hit a vein > > > > > >From: ksilem@MINDSPRING.COM > >Reply-To: ksilem@mindspring.com > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry > >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:15:19 -0800 > > > >with frequent readings & lectures, & generous honorariums for the readers, > >& lots of wine & cheese, & free public poetry workshops, & a children's > >playroom/daycare, & .... > > > >& make that *two* cats! > > > >k. > > > > -------Original Message------- > >From: Wright Laura E > >Sent: 11/18/02 10:36 AM > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: 100 mil. for poetry > > > > > Here's my fantasy: > >a modern poetry library, including rare editions, small presses, isbn-less > >chapbooks, etc. > >borrowing privileges to anyone who brings in poetry > > > >it would occupy a large house, in which the curators/librarians would also > >live (and of course a library cat) > > > >and maybe a scholarship for a young poet each year to live/work at the > >poetry house > > > >dreamily, > >Laura > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry In-Reply-To: <018d01c28f49$98223b40$5bb956d1@ibmw17kwbratm7> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Of course, you'll have to name it. What will it be? The Ruth Lilly Crack House of Rhythm, Ass, and Scag At 04:29 PM 11/18/2002, you wrote: >GO! >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Catherine Lasko" >To: >Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:25 PM >Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry > > > > and plenty of pills and a shooting gallery and an opium den and private > > rooms for masturbating and fucking and viewing rooms for watching Lillian > > Gish float to certain death on an iceberg a century ago and a big kitchen > > and well stocked refrigerator and people who know how to use and "do" any > > and all of these things in the midst of all the furniture and everyone's > > voices in constant collision and collusion having an orgasm looking for > > celery trying to hit a vein > > > > > > > > > > >From: ksilem@MINDSPRING.COM > > >Reply-To: ksilem@mindspring.com > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry > > >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:15:19 -0800 > > > > > >with frequent readings & lectures, & generous honorariums for the >readers, > > >& lots of wine & cheese, & free public poetry workshops, & a children's > > >playroom/daycare, & .... > > > > > >& make that *two* cats! > > > > > >k. > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > >From: Wright Laura E > > >Sent: 11/18/02 10:36 AM > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >Subject: 100 mil. for poetry > > > > > > > Here's my fantasy: > > >a modern poetry library, including rare editions, small presses, >isbn-less > > >chapbooks, etc. > > >borrowing privileges to anyone who brings in poetry > > > > > >it would occupy a large house, in which the curators/librarians would >also > > >live (and of course a library cat) > > > > > >and maybe a scholarship for a young poet each year to live/work at the > > >poetry house > > > > > >dreamily, > > >Laura > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:43:56 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20021118163016.03549920@mail.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit & a polymorphic semiolingualizer for the vispoets & a chamber bred with vaporware for the epoets & an anomolous siko-acoustic thrashpad for the performancepoets & a 1000 years of silence for the wordlesspoet > > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:58:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed from GOODBYE PARTY FOR SEX ****** sweaty in the sink tonight if ever we needed a strong storm known for its furious air even in the falling light left to fend off every language in every conceivable unhappy creature Anna, yes to every word, yes never to be tasted or seen over green oceans please say goodbye to sex at parties edens we are waiting to leave ******* say goodbye to sex at parties honoring our most unhappy creatures even over green oceans please if ever we needed a strong storm lit in undiscoverable furious splendors Anna, yes to every word, yes heating air into swirling dreamlessness edens we are waiting to excite toward ruthless invasions that inform choices to descend again bring her to me again, please ******** waiting for edens to cast us out Anna, you are being called left to fend off unappeasable voices damned if you continue to excite must it be traversed again alit in green furious air never to be tasted or seen Anna, yes to every word, yes need a strong storm to swirl never to be tasted or held even in falling light ********* damned if you continue to call Anna, must it be traversed again needing a strong storm to taste zones alit in green dreamlessness yes to every word, yes, yes scenes of muted longing that remain even over green oceans please never to be seen or held never in the falling light of poems alit in forever unappeasable voices pure amid constant tension ********** goodbye to sex at parties ripped away by strong storms allow me to remain unwashed helped to fend off furious splendors alit you continue to excite must it be traversed further just over green unappeasable air O, Anna, you are being called ripped away from dreamless oceans if ever to be tasted or held even in falling voices *********** knives that traverse further alit you continue to excite ripped away from dreamlessness every conceivable unhappy creature calls never Anna to be held or yes waiting to be an insistent voice if ever in distress goodbye sex even falling even in ocean light succumb to climbing vines in poems edenlike toward furious windows reckless pretense to pure locations *********** allow pure locations to call never Anna to be tasted, yes goodbye to oceans at parties for poems ever in distress appease voices must it be recklessly bridged left to fen off dreams of Anna informing choices to yes descend not yet unbound or yes falling known for, yes, goodbyes in poems O Anna, you are being dreamed of call Anna, yes please yes ************ just when we expected voices expected oceans and green light never tasted, held, or, yes, seen not yet unbound or appeased if to descend succumb to dreams furious with storms, furious with air every conceivable creature calls ripped out windows and succumb must it be traversed or bridged o zone o sexy goodbye in poems yes undiscoverable yes succumb ************* knives that sever and succumb in poems Anna, yes, you are being called toward the end of an endless poem yes, unbound unappeased dreams left to fend of dreamers in poems every insistent zone of sex desires go green ever in distress expected to wait on edens endlessly recklessly bridged in furious poems each Anna who is being called by voices raw to all surfaces and skies _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:08:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Writers Forum In-Reply-To: <009d01c28f44$9cdd6ba0$fac428c3@overgrowngarden> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And will And continue? aND On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 02:48 PM, Lawrence Upton wrote: > Launched on Saturday 14th November 2002 at The Voice Box, Royal=20 > Festival > Hall, London: _And # 11_ > > Initially co-edited by Bob Cobbing and John Rowan, AND magazine first > appeared in 1954 - and retrospectively became Writers Forum's first > publication. After a gap of 6 years there were 4 issues in the 1960s,=20= > 1 in > the early 70s (WF100), and then an exemplary breather of over 20=20 > years. Four > more issues, which I co-edited with Bob, appeared in the 90s. The new=20= > issue, > AND # 11, - for which he designed the cover - was finalised with Bob=20= > shortly > before his death; it contains the usual mix of verbi / visi=20 > provocations, > with substantial contributions from Sean Bonney, Jeff Hilson, Patricia > Farrell, Scott Thurston, Jennifer Pike, Ulli Freer, Lawrence Upton,=20 > Mark > Mendoza, Bruce Andrews and Ralph Hawkins, among others. > > Launched on Sunday 15th November 2002 at The Voice Box, Royal Festival=20= > Hall, > London: _Skeleton Sonnets_; by Adrian Clarke 80pp; A5 portrait; ISBN 1=20= > 84254 > 068 X; =A33.50 > > Each is available at =A33.50 (+ 75p p&p in UK; =A31.50 to North = America)=20 > for > sterling cheque - ask for p& p to other destinations, ask for advice=20= > if you > don't have a sterling account > > Cheques payable to Adrian Clarke, 1 Swanfield Road, Whitstable, Kent,=20= > CT5 > 4HL. > > > To be kept up to date with WF, simply send a blank email message to > WFInfo-subscribe@topica.com.) > > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:15:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: littleBlackRainCloud.swf MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lewis, This is great work here. I really like the mouse hold function - at first I was confused but then it all opened up for me. Really nice sound graphic and text work. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "lewis lacook" To: Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 8:50 AM Subject: littleBlackRainCloud.swf > this is just a little exercise! > > > > http://www.lewislacook.com/littleBlackRainCloud/ > > littleBlackRainCloud.swf > > audio/video/spokenword > > flash 6//speakers on > > > > > > Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html > meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:34:16 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "If I were founding a university - and I say it with all the seriousness of which I am capable - I would found first a smoking room; then when I had a little more money in hand I would found a dormitory; then after that, or more probably with it, a decent reading room and a library. After that, if I still had money over that I couldn't use, I would hire a professor and get some text books." - Stephen Leacock ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:43:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: Reminder: 21st-Century Poetics Event, 11/22 Comments: To: Abigail Reyes , Karen Leitsch Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The 21st-Century Poetics Working Group happily announces our second event of the season-- A round-table discussion on the poetics and politics of publishing featuring Patricia Dientsfrey, Laura Moriarty, Andrew Maxwell, and Travis Ortiz Friday, November 22 6:30 p.m. potluck, 8 p.m. presentations and discussion 900 Bancroft Way (at 7th St.) Patricia, Laura, Andrew and Travis will present their thoughts on current cruxes in the publishing of poetry, speaking from their varied experiences in editing and publishing outside of the industry's mainstream. Patricia Dienstfrey is co-founder of Kelsey St. Press, which has been publishing experiemental writing by women and collaborations between poets and visual artists since 1974. Her most recent book, The Woman Without Experiences (Kelsey St.), was winner of The American Award for Literature, 1996. Her work appears in Moving Borders: Three Decades of Innovative Writing by Women, edited by Mary Maragret Sloan (Talisman House, 1997). With Brenda Hillman she is co-editor of The Grand Permission: New Writings on Poetics and Motherhood, due out from Wesleyan University Press, in the Spring of 2003. Andrew Maxwell works as a lexicographer in Los Angeles, CA. With Macgregor Card he edits the literary magazine The Germ, and hosts the Poetic Research reading series from the Laboratory in downtown LA. As impoverished impresario and arts activist in the Bay Area, he acted as curator for the Flickering Frame Film Society and director of music programming at the radio station KZSC, where he also produced 92 episodes of an experimental radio serial called "Outside, My Strange Attractor." His writerly output includes two poetic "miniatures", The Shrink and The Last Performance, and a forthcoming chapbook, Window's Arbor. Poems have appeared or are near at hand from Angle, Skanky Possum, and Elizabeth Robinson's Ether broadside series. You can catch him locally as moppet percussionist and new music mallet-horse for the groups Open City and Ensemble of the Thirty-One Birds. Laura Moriarty runs Small Press Distribution. Her recent books are Like Roads (Kelsey St. Press), Rondeaux (Roof Books), L'Archiviste (Zasterle Press) and Symmetry (Avec Books). Her book Persia (Chance Additions) co-won the Poetry Center Book Award in 1983. She received a Wallace Alexander Gerbode Foundation Award in Poetry in 1992. Since 1986 she has managed the American Poetry Archives at the Poetry Center at San Francisco State University. Travis Ortiz' first book, geography of parts, has recently appeared from Melodeon Poetry Systems. Travis is co-editor of Atelos Publishing Project. He also edits a series of short books of poetry that highlight the visual aspects of poetry, called ghos-ti- (an indo-european root pronounced "gaws-tee"). His poems have appeared in Chain, Salt, Mirage #4/Period[ical], Lyric&, River City. His "text collages," or visual poems, have appeared in Prosodia and Mirage. He is a contributing editor for Chain's "Different Languages" issue. We shower praise upon anyone who helps support the series by bringing food or drink or by sticking around to help us clean up. This event is free and open to the public: 21st-Century Poetics vigorously thanks the Townsend Center, the Consortium for the Arts, the Department of English, and the East Bay Poetics & Motorcycle Club for their support. Stay tuned for upcoming events, including: Thursday, April 20: Kevin Davies and Judith Goldman For further information, or to be placed on our mailing list, please contact Carrjuli@aol.com or jscape@socrates.berkeley.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:12:55 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Writers Forum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's really for Adrian to say and I'll copy this answer to him I mean that AND has been so much *his project(s) with Bob that I would support what he wants to do; I'm always happy to be in it, after all I think there will be at least one more, but not for a couple of years; which is how it has been L ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: 18 November 2002 22:08 Subject: Re: Writers Forum And will And continue? aND On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 02:48 PM, Lawrence Upton wrote: > Launched on Saturday 14th November 2002 at The Voice Box, Royal > Festival > Hall, London: _And # 11_ > > Initially co-edited by Bob Cobbing and John Rowan, AND magazine first > appeared in 1954 - and retrospectively became Writers Forum's first > publication. After a gap of 6 years there were 4 issues in the 1960s, > 1 in > the early 70s (WF100), and then an exemplary breather of over 20 > years. Four > more issues, which I co-edited with Bob, appeared in the 90s. The new > issue, > AND # 11, - for which he designed the cover - was finalised with Bob > shortly > before his death; it contains the usual mix of verbi / visi > provocations, > with substantial contributions from Sean Bonney, Jeff Hilson, Patricia > Farrell, Scott Thurston, Jennifer Pike, Ulli Freer, Lawrence Upton, > Mark > Mendoza, Bruce Andrews and Ralph Hawkins, among others. > > Launched on Sunday 15th November 2002 at The Voice Box, Royal Festival > Hall, > London: _Skeleton Sonnets_; by Adrian Clarke 80pp; A5 portrait; ISBN 1 > 84254 > 068 X; £3.50 > > Each is available at £3.50 (+ 75p p&p in UK; £1.50 to North America) > for > sterling cheque - ask for p& p to other destinations, ask for advice > if you > don't have a sterling account > > Cheques payable to Adrian Clarke, 1 Swanfield Road, Whitstable, Kent, > CT5 > 4HL. > > > To be kept up to date with WF, simply send a blank email message to > WFInfo-subscribe@topica.com.) > > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:53:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick LoLordo Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting Mark DuCharme : > > It seems to me that there is Regionalism & then there's "regionalism." The > one being an obvious attempt to hoist "local color" as rationale for > artistic choices; the other an attempt to acknowledge "the local" within an > artistic & intellectual framework that's not limited to region, & thus > (mainly) to anecdotal experience. I think here not just of Spicer, but even > more primarily of the New York School, and/or of even the aforementioned > West Coast Langpos. One does tend to forget that New York City is a region ("centrality is the power of the dominant margin" as Charles Bernstein says somewhere)--and I say this as a "provincial" myself--until, say, one teaches O'Hara to undergraduates in Las Vegas....I found myself comparing him to Niedecker precisely as regional poets, working, Mark, through a set of ideas that seem similar to your two versions of regionalism in the order you give them......But I wonder if the case of Spicer differs: because a specific local set of conditions and a specific community gave rise to his poetry, does this make it regional? I'm curious: is there poetry important to you that isn't regional, in your second sense? (Surely the opposite of the regional would be not the national or universal, god help us, but something like the "cosmopolitan"--poetry written precisely in the absense of shared local values.....otherwise "regional" becomes a code word for "avant-garde," which inevitably evokes the "mainstream," and we're back to THAT story...) Nick -- Vincent Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor Department of English University of Nevada-Las Vegas Las Vegas, NV 89154 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:59:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" In-Reply-To: <1037663616.3dd97d80886c5@webmail.scsv.nevada.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { One does tend to forget that New York City is a region Harumpf! New York City is *the* region. Hal Please stand clear of the closing doors. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:48:09 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'll mind your gap On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Halvard Johnson wrote: > { One does tend to forget that New York City is a region > > Harumpf! New York City is *the* region. > > Hal Please stand clear of the closing doors. > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:35:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: On the Transmission of Mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On the Transmission of Mind Huang Po: Can The you minds imagine of bones all in the the Buddhas Void? are The one minds Can of you all imagine Buddhas in are the one Void? with What Great do Void. you What expect do find expect with to the find Great there? Void. Nikuko: Po Void. I My love bones you. are am with My love great bones and sail color Great ivory. My sail great They there-are navigate stars. by They there-are through stars. the navigate Void. through They nebulae. in bones. nebulae. Huang Po: Can you imagine bones in the Void? The minds of all the Buddhas are one with the Great Void. What bones do you expect to find there? Nikuko: Huang Po I love you. I am bones in the Void. My bones are one with the Great Void. My bones are great and the color of ivory. My bones sail in the Great Void. They navigate by the there-are stars. They navigate through the there-are nebulae. My bones in the Great Void. My bones. (translated John Blofeld) === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:40:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: heavy-lidded In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII heavy-lidded stranger, your hair's only extra (apologies to leslie scalapino) pigweed no first third requisition vobiscum scurf swerve no corpse pocket fresh "producing the representational situation" wet linkages kids impossible fortune city squeak out of not sexuality presenter of gravity bone symptom notch "in the commercial setting" drink up fumare stupefaction leak deckle fuss oh read ink laud drear interstitial dog marked man ceiling around your allay bore dine actual later got itch arm school grounder I've from tick polish chew bell meant quest civil eyes disk horse reader baby you tea churl in game to wit nest err yule owe mehr als creped a gait her lo what aged ermine forever's leap a rest coeur breeze in tact cell abrasion tree tops lea oil dumb metier this yeoman image an airy seed up see day's evolve a lute fish a lack asp ordinate Ural eternam bees meant today taunt heel eyes aw you reek altimeter if itch hoist in theme attire echt agon awry thing laid again in taw nick aid hid rheumy ache shift terra weigh voll in grasp oppressed oblige shimmy on document orality roll or pig meat off theme age nation -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:16:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: +++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII in the heart of theory, two million dead in new york city - the radiation is horrifying - people have no food no water - if we'd known we would have converted - we would have believed anything - now we're in for it - righteous retribution - skies filled with planes - we'll knock out mecca - medina - omar - what's left of us - the plague's coming - no food - some radio - everyone's talking - there's deadly silence - we should have known - it's already here - the cylinder poised - beginning of the countdown - there's no reason to leave - the room or city - there's no time - temperature rising - the fury - we can't write after the fact - only during it - === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:54:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Regions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It's certainly to the point to think of New York as a region, and its notion of modernism as regionalist. Whenever you hear, I couldn't do this anywhere else, it is the voice of "region." To be slightly more serious out it, Heidegger suggests that even the copula, "X is X," is a "region" of being--a "mere" region, and he's not interested in regionalism. Such an intractable account, though, does suggest that a more inclusive notion of regionalism--a kind of critical regionalism, as experience does tend to take place in such "regions"--might be helpful in getting past the "old regionalism," which, like the "old historicism," sees temporal/spatial positivities apart from dominant metropolitan cultures as regionalist. Nothing could be less the case or desirable in the globalized, decentered present. We have every reason to critically modify the old idea of "region" and look for a better account. The intersections of modernism with such an account of region are many and various, and I've written on that--so I refer you to: http://www.markszine.com/102/bwind.htm. Rexroth provides an interesting case. In his work, we might see a pre-postmodern spatial elaboration of a modernist aesthetic--so that the dislocation of the various sites of his writing (or modes or genres) should be taken into the specific geographic positivity of San Francisco or the West Coast or the Pacific Rim--additionally a "region" of Rexroth's writing, even though he didn't reside there (in fact, I believe he did travel to Japan at one time). So what allows for Rexroth's aesthetics of translation, which are certainly quite different from, say, Zukofsky's, would be the adequacy of a spatial notion of "region." There is a lyric condition, realized at a second remove. We could distinguish, as well, Rexroth's "regional" moment from Spicer's. With Spicer, there is a considerable reflection on a paradoxical insufficiency and absoluteness of region. One is only ever in a region, even if it's the nonsense of "a baseball diamond in the Runcible Mountains." But this notion of region is a second-order regionalism--a kind of hyper-regionalism that, in fact, takes us very far away from any realism of streetcars and closer to a philosophical account of regions of being, which is all we ever get. The alignment with that kind of reflection and the positivity of regions is, or could be, the source of some interesting connections. Mike Davis's contribution to the theory of regions is the "noir" moment when the Frankfurt School hit the beach at Santa Monica. It turns out that LA provided the negativity in buckets for critical theory--and that, conversely, negativity is as much a part of LA's regionalism as its tinseled positivity. When Davis started getting lots of critical attention for this Frankenstein of an argument, that's when new California regionalism really took off. And its been Davis v. Kevin Starr ever since. BW ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:57:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: Regions In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021118223652.00aaeb00@mail.wayne.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A fascinating article addressing this very issue was recently found at: http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern >To be slightly more serious out it, Heidegger suggests that even the >copula, "X is X," is a "region" of being--a "mere" region, and he's not >interested in regionalism. Such an intractable account, though, does >suggest that a more inclusive notion of regionalism--a kind of critical >regionalism, as experience does tend to take place in such "regions"--might >be helpful in getting past the "old regionalism," which, like the "old >historicism," sees temporal/spatial positivities apart from dominant >metropolitan cultures as regionalist. Nothing could be less the case or >desirable in the globalized, decentered present. We have every reason to >critically modify the old idea of "region" and look for a better account. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:56:23 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think they should burn all the extant Poetry copies and start afresh. They should establish weekly poetry readings at the end of each everyone goes to the local bar, and the magazine foots the bar and food tab. These will constitute a good beginning until we think of other ideas. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:58:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry In-Reply-To: <184.121a1427.2b0b2c87@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Perhaps to print them on stainless... There's also finally the possibility of arming poets - everyone's going for power these days... 9mms with O'Hara etched on the barrel... haiku- fragment bombs... Alan On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > I think they should burn all the extant Poetry copies and start afresh. They > should establish weekly poetry readings at the end of each everyone goes to > the local bar, and the magazine foots the bar and food tab. These will > constitute a good beginning until we think of other ideas. > > Murat > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:21:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" In-Reply-To: <000501c28f40$62888bf0$8f9966d8@CADALY> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Catherine, You provide thought-provoking data, but what exactly do you mean by west coast "school"? School of Jeffers, Winters, Rexroth, Spicer, Duncan, Snyder, James McMichael (a great L.A. poet), and Hass? I see thematic continuities here -- e.g., nature, human intimacy, utopia/dystopia, the Pacific rim traditions -- but it's a pretty peculiar bunch: and more peculiar, taken as a whole, than anything on the other coast (maybe because of the Californian provincialism?). I did not know that people had begun talking of a "school"... Andy ps Another reason to mope about the academic hegemony: it draws off the local talent thereby eroding the topsoil of regional culture. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:23:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Felsinger Subject: A Cultural Hero of the Soviet Era Looks to the Future -- The Chronicle of Higher Education Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable A contributor to VeRT receives recognition. You can read some of Mikhail Epstein's work in issue #7: http://www.litvert.com/mepstein.html =20 The Chronicle of Higher Education From the issue dated November 22, 2002 A Cultural Hero of the Soviet Era Looks to the Future Now at Emory, Mikhail Epstein envisions new modes of thought in the humanities By PETER MONAGHAN Atlanta the article=20 http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i13/13a01601.htm For the past decade, an intellectual and cultural hero from Soviet-era Moscow has been quietly producing ambitious and varied research here, on th= e edge of Emory University's leafy suburban campus, in a converted house that is the home of the Russian department. Mikhail N. Epstein, whom the eminent Sovietologist Walter Laqueur has calle= d "probably the most important figure in Russian literary theory" of recent decades, was a fabled figure among Moscow's intelligentsia in the 1970s and '80s.=20 The fact that he's rarely mentioned in literary and cultural-studies circle= s in America "is to the disgrace of the academy," says Thomas R. Epstein, a visiting professor in Slavic studies at Brown University. He's a friend (no relation) of Mikhail, but his opinion is echoed by other respected Slavists with a theoretical bent. The Russian may lack celebrity in part because his work is so hard to pigeonhole. As it happens, now is a good time to wander belatedly into Mikhail Epstein'= s singular world, thanks to his latest book in translation. The bulk of Cries in the New Wilderness: From the Files of the Moscow Institute of Atheism (published this summer by Paul Dry Books) is a mock "spetsizdat," or classified document, on emerging spiritual sects, purportedly compiled in 1985 by a bureaucrat-scholar, R.O. Gibaydulina, Ph.D. An atheist per state policy, Gibaydulina records with scientific dispassion the words of various preachers and prophets. Among the Everyday Sects are, for example, Thingwrights, who call for "a wholesale replacement of signs b= y things." The Philistine Sects include Folls, who disrupt the "rational projects" of the state. Among the Atheist sects, the Atheans "call upon man to act as if God exists, even if He doesn't." Cries in the New Wilderness, says Thomas Epstein, "to paraphrase Voltaire, creates groups that, if they didn't exist --=A0and they didn't --=A0they would have to have been created just to fully enact the realities of Soviet life.= " It is a summa theologica of groups that tacitly disavow the Soviet disavowa= l of religions. An earlier form of the book circulated in Moscow in the late 1980s as a classic samizdat --=A0underground --=A0manuscript before an American Russian-language edition was published in 1993. Its underground status derived from its wry, knowing humor: Mr. Epstein frames the Gibaydulina report with mock-scholarly book reviews and a preface (as well as an afterword, in the English edition) written by Mikhail N. Epstein --=A0or a character of the same name --=A0who expresses the belief that the "lonely voices of faith" are relieving the absurd "ideosphere" that gripped 20th-century life. They may even be "making room for a new freedom of thought which goes under the ancient name of 'wisdom.'" The entertaining mystification of Cries only begins to suggest the scope of Mr. Epstein's writing. In Russia, and among alert American colleagues, he i= s known for his works on Russian postmodernism and totalitarian language, for his startling religious and philosophical writings, and for his extensive Internet projects. His 15 books and hundreds of articles range freely over historical, linguistic, literary, political, and religious ground. "Of all the people that I know of in the East or the West who are doing cultural studies," says Michael Holquist, a professor of comparative literature and Slavic languages and literatures at Yale University, "he comes as close as anybody to weaving a seamless web between the different aspects of culture --=A0high, low, spiritual ... It's the ars combinatoria that is so remarkable." 'Technohumanities' On first meeting Mr. Epstein, who is 52, a visitor registers his Old World manners, his grayed sweep of hair, his steady gaze behind bifocals. But whe= n he speaks, in nuanced English that bears only occasional traces of Russian syntax, concrete reality dissolves in the light of his abstract thought. His new book, he says, is a "comedy of ideas," his response to a remark by the French poet and critic Paul Val=E9ry (1871-1945) that the modern era called for a new "Intellectual Comedy" to succeed Dante's Divine Comedy, which was born of feudal society, and Balzac's Human Comedy, which sprang from bourgeois society. The right context for a third "comedy," says Mr. Epstein, is surely the rise and fall of Communism --=A0a regime that sought t= o make ideology reality. Cries is part of an attempt to create "a whole branch of what I call technohumanities" --=A0a practical application of ideas to the humanities tha= t he finds analogous to technology in the natural sciences and politics in th= e social sciences. To the ancient Greeks, he points out, techne meant "art." In his book, he says, "I see some nascent religious and philosophical modes= , but I try to articulate them to such a degree that they become philology, the theoretical consciousness of these groups. This is the artistic component." He also increasingly favors another mode of the book --=A0the catalog of ideas, or encyclopedia: "I think this is the form for the comedy of our time." "I feel myself not very in favor of consecutive writings," he says. "I feel this is a matter of the past, more and more, and I myself prefer what can b= e called hypertextual connections, parallel processing of variations of the same problem in several disciplines and languages." After all, he continues, "time tends to evaporate in the contemporary world= , and I think that our intellectual enterprise should somehow reflect that tendency." Cries is part of a projected trilogy, another part of which is posted on InteLnet, his complex of Web sites (http://www.emory.edu/INTELNET/Index.html). The posted portion is called the Book of Books --=A0"a little pretentiously, = I know," Mr. Epstein says, and is a growing compendium of ideas that diverge from paradigms in the humanities. He explains on the site: "Practically every generally accepted decision that is made in the humanities (philosophy, literature, ethics, linguistics) leaves room for an alternativ= e yet unexpressed decision." Those theories and concepts "were never conceive= d and realized ... because they failed to find their exponents," in some case= s because they were thwarted by "persecutions, totalitarianism, destruction o= f culture, of philosophy, of theology." "To tell you the truth," Mr. Epstein says, "my favorite intellectual occupation is inventing new disciplines, new methods." The Book of Books is full of proposals for such disciplines, for new genres and concepts, and fo= r new words to describe them. "Semionics," for example, would be the science of "how to produce new signs," and "silentology" the inverse of linguistics= . "This," he continues, "is what actually the humanities' enterprise may be: finding mutenesses and lacunae in the languages of existing disciplines and trying to fill them." Postmodern on Its Own Terms That reverie in some ways reveals the Russian tradition from which Mr. Epstein springs: that of the literary critic straddling the border of literature and philosophy. In Moscow, Mr. Epstein made his biggest theoretical splash in the mid-1980s= , when he presented the startling idea that the Soviet Union was postmodern --=A0and that it (and, earlier, Russia) had been so even before the concept was coined in the West. How could there be postmodernism when modernism itself had been so suppressed in the Soviet state? Well, he said, because in Russian culture, ideology --=A0specifically, socialist realism, a compromised Marxism --=A0stood in for the two underpinnings of postmodernism in its Western formulation: the "cultural logic of late capitalism," as Fredric Jameson put it, and the "tyranny" of visual simulation and hyperreality, as described by Jean Baudrillard. The argument was all the more striking because the Russian humanities, whil= e strong in such areas as textual studies and literary history, had avoided such galvanizing Western theories as poststructuralism, deconstruction, and psychoanalysis, writes Caryl Emerson, a highly regarded Slavist at Princeto= n University, in a recent essay in the journal Common Knowledge. Mr. Epstein stood out in Russian academe thanks also to his after-hours activities. He held academic day jobs, beginning in the mid-1970s at Moscow's Institute of World Literature. But at night, he was associating with artists and writers, in a world that in Russia is traditionally set apart from academe. In particular he championed the Conceptualists, who use= d such elements as everyday objects, garbage, and blasphemy to produce shocking, anti-aesthetic art that showed how ideology infects independent thought. The group represented concepts, rather than objects, to show that in an ideocratic society, as Mr. Epstein puts it, "everything was ideologically infused and abused." In the Conceptualists, he located a parallel to a key ingredient in postmodernism: irony. As the Soviet state staggered toward its dissolution in the 1980s, Mr. Epstein organized activities in Moscow that might, playfully but seriously, help build alternatives to Soviet ideocracy. He formed such groups as the Essayists Club, Image and Thought, and --=A0the most celebrated --=A0the Laboratory of Contemporary Culture, in which intellectuals and artists attempted to cross political, intellectual, and cultural borders --=A0those set, for example, by the language of totalitarianism. The attention he attracted caught up with him. As Sovietism petered out and economic hardships racked the state, nationalists of the Pamyat' movement took to harassing Mr. Epstein at his public appearances. "I received some threats, and there were some publications against my being a Russian writer with a Jewish name. My wife was afraid. When she tried to obtain food for our four children, she was threatened because she was the wife of a Jew. Yo= u understand." He moved to the United States in 1990, teaching for a semester at Wesleyan University, then working as a research fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, in Washington, before settling at Emory. His arrival in America caused great excitement among theory-oriented American Slavists, says Dale E. Peterson, a professor of English and Russia= n at Amherst College. Mr. Peterson hoped --=A0perhaps too optimistically, he says now --=A0for "the kind of really complicated cultural dialogue that has happened as, say, Western feminism has had to encounter alternative formulations of feminist positions." 'Age of Anticipation' One of Mr. Peterson's expectations did bear fruit. "I was anticipating to find that while poststructuralist thinking in the West came largely out of an age of suspicion, of decentering of self, and, through deconstruction, o= f pointing out the indeterminacy of meaning, poststructuralist thinking in Epstein's case and generally in the post-Soviet period comes out of an age of anticipation." Mr. Epstein agrees. In one of his central formulations, he suggests that while postmodernism may assert the death of time, history, authorship, originality, and God, "the epoch of deconstruction, demythologization, and so on is over." After an epoch of "post-" --=A0poststructuralism, postmodernism --=A0he says, we are entering an era of proto-, of "feeling as if we are at the very beginning of some new trends and tendencies that we are not yet able to preview or forecast, but we have to try." Such an era would complete a drift in Western philosophy from the indicativ= e mode (pre-Kantian thinkers describing what is), to the imperative mode (Kantian and post-Kantian thinkers describing what should be), to a now-emerging epoch of the subjunctive mode, the mode of possibility. "All these tendencies to the imperative mode are exhausted," he says. "In the fall of Russian Communism, the activist approach is over, and in deconstruction, the critical thrust of Western thought also is exhausted. The epoch of the third mode, the subjunctive mode, is at the very beginning= , and we should try to create aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, some social an= d theological aspects of this new epoch." Mr. Epstein discusses what that future might look like in The Philosophy of the Possible: On Modalities of Culture and Thought, published in Russian last year, and now under contract to be published in English. The book expresses "the most interesting thing about Epstein: He's just really optimistic," says Princeton's Ms. Emerson, "not naive." His optimism resounds in his current work on the future of the humanities a= s a fellow of Emory's Center for Humanistic Inquiry, and in his development o= f InteLnet. In both undertakings, he emphasizes the benefit of new modes of thinking: mystery and amazement. With Conceptualist self-parody, he says hi= s goal on the Web site is "to link everything to everything else," to see wha= t "mysteries" emerge. Mystery is at the core of his fascination with spiritualism, particularly with the Rus-sian tradition of "apophaticism," an elusive concept that emphasizes human inadequacy and might be described as godless godfulness, o= r a questing for a God who is an absence. Mr. Epstein's emphasis on possibility is thorough. Toward his goal of new ways of thinking, he advocates the free, nonproprietary sharing of ideas. His colleagues compliment him on that unusual generosity, but they also wonder if it is too utopian. Ellen E. Berry, an English professor at Bowling Green State University who co-wrote a 1999 book with Mr. Epstein on Russian and American styles of "creative communication," says: "We used to tussle quite a bit over his tendency to not see that this open interaction could sometimes lead to violence, to the negation of the other's point of view. For someone who's lived through violence, his thoughts don't turn to the possibility of violence and even, if you will, of evil." Take also Mr. Epstein's simple theory of "transculture," which holds that while any society tends to be a trap, one can, through culture, liberate oneself. Contrary to Lenin's remark that "one cannot live in a society and be free of it," Mr. Epstein argues that "culture is not a product of society, but a challenge and alternative to society." Not only Lenin, of course, but also Freud, Foucault, and even Bakhtin --=A0whose shadows loom large in American humanities departments --=A0were less sanguine about the possibilities of escaping society's shackles. That may begin to explain why, as Mr. Peterson of Amherst College puts it, "the splashdown effect of Epstein in the American intellectual world has no= t been as large as I had hoped." Now, Mr. Peterson says, "the time is either overdue, or ripe. It's hard to say." He and other advocates of Mr. Epstein's work cite additional reasons for hi= s relative obscurity. For one thing, among the last of the philologists, most Slavists are suspicious of "theory." For another, translations of his works into English have been slow in coming, not because of the difficulty of his Russian prose, which his translators call lapidary, but because of the unusual nature of his work. The West has always been slow to pick up on Eastern European thought, often discovering it only through, say, a French lens, says Mr. Holquist. "In the American academy, anything that comes from east of the Seine is somehow not considered quite serious." But Mr. Epstein's ability to glide from academe to beyond is unusual, even among Russian thinkers, says the Yale professor, and that confounds America= n academics. "By any standard," sums up Mr. Holquist, "Mikhail is a real original." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SOME PUBLICATIONS BY MIKHAIL N. EPSTEIN After The Future: The Paradoxes of Postmodernism and Contemporary Russian Culture, translated by Anesa Miller-Pogacar (University of Massachusetts Press, 1995) Transcultural Experiments: Russian and American Models of Creative Communication (St. Martin's Press, 1999; with Ellen E. Berry) Russian Postmodernism: New Perspectives on Post-Soviet Culture, translated by Slobodanka M. Vladiv-Glover (Berghahn Books, 1999; with Alexander A. Genis and Slobodanka M. Vladiv-Glover) Cries in the New Wilderness: From the Files of the Moscow Institute of Atheism, translated by Eve Adler (Paul Dry Books, 2002) For a full list of publications, with some summaries, see http://www.emory.edu/INTELNET /cv_books.html. Library catalogs generally list Mr. Epstein's Russian-language booksunder the spelling "Epshtein." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You can read some of Mikhail Epstein's work in issue #7: http://www.litvert.com/mepstein.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:23:29 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JDHollo@AOL.COM Subject: Simon Pettet at Naropa Comments: To: joe.amato@colorado.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Jack Kerouac School's Summer Writing Program Presents: A NIGHT OF POETRY WITH SIMON PETTET "Like Beethoven's Bagatelles, Simon Pettet's short poems have a great deal to say, and their seemingly modest dimensions help rather than hinder his saying it. An unorthodox lucidity reminiscent of Schuyler, a certain English dappleness and an oriental concision blend in poetry whose sweet, complex fragrance is Petter's secret." -- John Ashbery "... poems like large beads with words deeply carved in them ... and so the beads turn from wood to gem in this light: a New York light cast on English speech (English light cast on New York speech?). Perfect poems, unexpectedly." -- Alice Notley Tuesday, December 3, 8 PM, Sycamore 200 Naropa University Campus 2130 Arapahoe Avenue Boulder Colorado ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:55:08 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They should give me a pension for life to write Why me? Why not? I'm nice L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: 19 November 2002 05:56 Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry | I think they should burn all the extant Poetry copies and start afresh. They | should establish weekly poetry readings at the end of each everyone goes to | the local bar, and the magazine foots the bar and food tab. These will | constitute a good beginning until we think of other ideas. | | Murat | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:53:10 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe not burn them! But the bar idea is good! I think the donation is good (if used properly) (the guesture is good): I once sent a poem to Poetry (I had the Poet's Market) but the editor didnt comment except to say that he was very very busy which I can understand...but that aside I only sent as it was one amongst many including what looked like "cutting edge" to me (there are not so many in NZ)...but the paradox is that while I am now on a quite low income and have to watch costs and so on and dont have much time to write: I only wish I had more time to read and write...the paradox is that I KNOW that I dont want any money from anyone....NOW: if someone sent me a cheque would I refuse....no...but I wouldnt ask for money and I never have (except I did when my mother was quite ill and house bound and our outgoings were double our income I asked the family to help) but I dont think that money to individuals does any good......well, I'll alter that, I think it would be good if Poetry distributes the money and starts grants into a wide range of poets and styles (not just Billy Collins etc) and grants for students....but for myself I know that a large amount of money _given_ to me is not what I want: I believe that part of what makes a poet/writer/artist is the strength to go on in the face even of possible banckruptcy (from which I'm not too far!!) and at times I have been anxious about money...the thing is that the old person who donated the money was probably a kind person...but kindness can kill: this is different to say the US starting real development in foreign countries that are oor and need growth [(rather than the present policy of bullying and bombing)] (no strings and so on) ... in some ways its good...but in other ways it shows the falsity and gaucheness of capitalism not its glory as Harry Nudel exclaims (Harry you forgot your durn...)...no US Capitalism is no better than any other capitalism: lives are ruined then peole thnk thaey dcan palm off and maybe get to heaven...ok maybe this individual is a good person she probably is... Dont worry I like cash: but I like eanring my own and I dont admire people because they have money - or they are famous, or they are "geniuses" - and I never expect any money for poetry I write and (others may wish to have it) although I accept it if its there.... I dont know: the guesture is probably good .... I wouldnt be cynical about it: but it makes me think that happiness comes not from external awards but from an innner sense of worth in what one is: I feel that to have brought up three chlildren, to have lived a fairly interesting (if "ordinary") life, mainly had good health, still feel quite good, have confidence in myself, in others, know I will die one day recognised or not but have had a good "innings" as they say. (Even if I had done noting I would still feel ok one cant live in the past or the future). Its good to be 54 and alert and talk to a beautiful Chinese woman down the road at her coffee shop about the significance of the eagle to her and other Chinese people (from where she comes from) and ask her about her langauge and her life and hear her say how cats are gentle animals and eagles are strong and then to go out and see children shouting and jumping around and seeing the trees and hearing bird song and puzzling out some of the ideation on Ron's blog and playing Chess and reading and thinking: even just being able to see....money cant buy those things...money cant buy contact and breath and being alive and being. And here there is no war: there are problems but we are not at war. But I have to say I dont think (from memory) that Poetry was very interesting in comparison to many many other poetry mags in the US and NZ and elsewhere...and including BRIEF (NZ) - in which I have been published a few times: and also Poetry New Zealand and even a small mag in Chicago PICA (which seems to have disappeared or whatever) which took some of my prose poems....often of course one has to see a number of copies and to get a good sense of a mag.....is Sulfur still going? I picked one up recently: I must get some copies of Chain that sounds good....it would be good if some of that cash goes to the smaller mags and other than the "official" poets. I would hate to have to bring up children now on a low income but I think apart from tose thigs we all need to realise that life is a struggle: each ash his own kempf....thatis what life is a constant struggle but it is also exciting and all the other things: money as such isnt the answer....I like to earn my own way. That is my belief: that life is an interesting struggle. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry > I think they should burn all the extant Poetry copies and start afresh. They > should establish weekly poetry readings at the end of each everyone goes to > the local bar, and the magazine foots the bar and food tab. These will > constitute a good beginning until we think of other ideas. > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:01:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry In-Reply-To: <001e01c28fdb$617591e0$8d2756d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to put this in perspective, the Lilly bequest wouldn't buy "us" even one F-22 fighter plane. http://www.cdi.org/issues/budget/FY03weapons-pr.cfm Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:54:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Re: Regions Comments: cc: "K.Angelo Hehir" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been asked to elaborate on this: > Mike Davis's contribution to the theory of regions is the "noir" moment > when the Frankfurt School hit the beach at Santa Monica. It turns out= that > LA provided the negativity in buckets for critical theory--and that, > conversely, negativity is as much a part of LA's regionalism as its > tinseled positivity. When Davis started getting lots of critical= attention > for this Frankenstein of an argument, that's when new California > regionalism really took off. And its been Davis v. Kevin Starr ever= since. > Davis's work, after *City of Quartz*, depends on a "noir" account of LA--as= =20 an inverted utopia, a dystopia whose defunct production sites, neighborhood= =20 councils, and security zones mirror the utopian hopes at the basis of=20 Frankfurt School critical theory. Adorno's *Minima Moralia* and his books=20 about astrology and Fascist propaganda were written in LA, for instance.=20 The LA County Museum had a show about German expatriates in the war=20 years--everyone from Sch=F6nberg to Brecht to Adorno--and published a map=20 showing where everyone lived, many of them in Santa Monica. When I visited= =20 Brecht's house in Berlin last summer, the tour guide kept correcting my=20 references to his LA residence to "Santa Monica." There is an exceptionally= =20 funny CD cover for *Sch=F6nberg in Hollywood* showing the composer in a pink= =20 shirt playing ping pong. Davis's genius was to put Hollywood noir and=20 German critical theory together as a basis for criticizing LA's "regional"= =20 culture. This drew him into a lively and ongoing debate with the author of= =20 the competing, "old historicist" account, Kevin Starr, whose multivolume=20 cultural history of California has been coming out for the last fifteen=20 years or so, and which is highly worth reading. This, in turn, has=20 stimulated a great deal of interest in "thinking California," if that's not= =20 too theoretical. Some of that takes place in my afore-cited article at=20 *mark(s)*. In any case, California provided a basis for much of Adorno's=20 remarks on consumer culture, and in turn for Jameson's and Baudrillard's=20 account of the postmodern. The postmodern, then, would appear to have=20 "regional" entailments--as in Jameson's call for a practice of "cultural=20 mapping" to figure out where we are. BW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:03:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Red Room reading, 11/22 Comments: To: info@meaningless.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT RSVP IF YOU PLAN TO ATTEND-- + + + + + + + MATT KIRBY, AARON BELZ, MIKE TOPP Friday 11/22 at the Red Room * Plus: the banjo frailins of Professor Fruitgum * And: words of welcome by Jim Feast * And also: Introductory comments by Matt Lintzenich http://meaningless.com/redroom/ $8 a person, or more if you can afford it. DOORS OPEN 7:30 SHOW AT 8 See you there, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:11:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Corporate Campus Subject: U B U W E B :: E T H N O P O E T I C S Comments: To: ubuweb , soundpoetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry for the cross-postings. Please forward to all. __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com UbuWeb is pleased to announce the first phase of a new section of Ethnopoetics curated by Jerome Rothenberg: an overview of world poetries, poetics, and theory. UbuWeb Ethnopoetics contains a wealth of examples: visual, oral and written. "The breakthroughs of the last 100 years in poetry and elsewhere have been marked by new approaches to language and performance. Largely this has been the work of several generations of experimental writers and performers, many of them now archived and available thru Ubuweb and related web sites. It fell to some of us, starting with forerunners like Tristan Tzara and Antonin Artaud, to track related but traditional approaches over a wide range of once impenetrable cultures throughout the world. In my own work I was able to bring some of these lines together in gatherings of the 1960s and 1970s like Technicians of the Sacred and Shaking the Pumpkin, as well as in the magazine Alcheringa that I co-edited for several years with Dennis Tedlock. The name that we gave this enterprise, as it applied to the world’s deep cultures – those surviving in situ as well as those that had vanished except for transcriptions in books or recordings from earlier decades – was ethnopoetics. In the present Ubuweb collection of ethnopoetic openings, it’s our intention to build a sampler of what we take to be the second great breakthrough of the modernist poetry project. The search here is for a range of poetries outside the domain of customarily accepted literature. In particular we’re interested, in the spirit of other segments of Ubuweb, in soundings and visionings that are the traditional and often culturally acceptable counterparts to what in our own surroundings have been seen and heard as radical, even disturbing departures from conventional practice. In exploring these we will also be mindful of occasions on which the avant-garde experimental line has merged with or deliberately drawn from other culturally specific traditions. We proceed in the spirit of Gertrude Stein, often quoted by me: The exciting thing about all this is that as it is new it is old and as it is old it is new, but now we have come to be in our way which is an entirely different way." - Jerome Rothenberg, October 2002 ETHNOPOETICS ---SOUNDINGS--- Canntaireachd Celtic Mouth Music Ella Fitzgerald Glossolalia Indonesian Ketjack Inuit Throat Music Sainkho Namtchylak Nigun / Nigunim Maria Sabina Tuvan Throat Singing ---VISUALS--- Cuna: Muu's Way Chippewa: Songs & Song Pictures Hidatsa: Lean Wolf's Complaint Jewish Visual Poetry Mayan Hieroglyphs Navajo Visual Poetry Shaker Visual Poetry Apollinaire and Anonymous Roman ---POEMS--- from Poemes Negres by Tristan Tzara (1916) "The Annunciation" by Marpa, Tibet, 11th Century "A Shaman Climbs Up the Sky" Altaic, Siberia "The Killer" after A'yunini, Cherokee "15 Flower World Variations" Yaqui "A Poem for the Small Face" I. Luria (Aramaic) "A Poem for the Shekinah..." I. Luria (Aramaic) Eskimo and Other Translations ---DISCOURSES--- Alcheringa - Statement of Intention [HTML] Brent Hayes Edwards - Louis Armstrong and the Syntax of Scat [Microsoft Word Doc] Bronislaw Malinowski -- The Meaning of Meaningless Words... [HTML] Henry Munn -- Writing in the Imagination of an Oral Poet [HTML] Juan Gregorio Regino -- The Poet Speaks, The Mountain Sings... [HTML] Jerome Rothenberg -- Ethnopoetics at the Millennium Nathaniel Tarn / Gary Snyder - From Anthropologist to Informant [PDF] Tristan Tzara -- Note on Negro Poetry (1918) [HTML] - ETHNOPOETICS __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:51:08 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: axis of oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Axis of Oil Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco, British Petroleum-Amoco and Royal Dutch?Shell - The axis of oil Crude oil Slaughter in the name of oil in Sudan Slaughter in the name of oil in Nigeria Slaughter in the name of oil in Columbia Now, more slaughter in the name of oil in Iraq In the fight for oil profits (and what is good for business is good for America) oil fields become killing fields british colonialism american imperialism Crude oil To those excited states in America We call for regime change We call for an end to the regime that sends cluster bombs into playgrounds You order the bombing of innocents with your algebra of infinite sadness. Your weapons of mass destruction. Over 3000 dead in Afghanistan End your dream of total power that is a nightmare for the rest of the world. Crude oil George W. Bush The W is for war George War Bush George Warmaker Bush George Warmonger Bush That White House cowboy using force and violence to impose Washington's will on the world. He's still an addict. He still needs his lines. Pipe lines. Crude oil. And where are there are United Nations, with its Security Council: do you feel secure? With there food for oil program Punishing the people of Iraq because they cannot punish Saddam Hussein. Why can't they send weapons inspectors into all of the nations of the world. And how about the media? The corporate media choking on sound bytes. Those slick screens that we skate and surf and click trying and leave our traces. Television light bombards us. Smarmy talking heads incite riots. Swarthy citizens take cover as dark skin means dark past. And even darker future. America is the terrorist. Crude oil. And us? Here on our island floating in petroleum In our Hibernia heated homes How will global warming redraw our coast line? How many Canadian tanks will we send so that we can fill the tanks of our SUVs? Crude oil. War for oil. Let's develop our weapons of introspection. Our resolve will not be weakened. We call for a peace without end. With our brothers and sisters in Florence, across the country and throughout the globe. In Baghdad and beyond. Our leaders have failed us. For now, democracy -- such as it exists -- is truly in the streets. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:01:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Rexroth and Japan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Towards the end of his life, Rexroth stayed in an old farm house outside of Kyoto, but it seems to me he came over one time before that. According to Hamalian, he taught himself the language with the aid of some Japanese living in San Francisco.. Sad to say, but a tape of his reading the originals of his translations (accompanied by the Koto no less) had my Japanese friends laughing themselves almost to tears. Regionalism in writing has lost most meaning for me, except of course in the historical sense. I live in Tokyo, but am certainly not part of this writing scene. I guess my "region" is my fading memory of the East coast of the USA, which I sometimes attempt to rekindle when I post here. Actually, I feel more and more that my region is the internet. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:57:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Rexroth and Japan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jess: You mentioned how tapes of Rexroth reading/performing were/are received in Japan. How does Cid Corman's work/presence register there? Gerald > Towards the end of his life, Rexroth stayed in an old farm house outside of > Kyoto, but it seems to me he came over one time before that. According to > Hamalian, he taught himself the language with the aid of some Japanese > living in San Francisco.. Sad to say, but a tape of his reading the > originals of his translations (accompanied by the Koto no less) had my > Japanese friends laughing themselves almost to tears. > > Regionalism in writing has lost most meaning for me, except of course in the > historical sense. I live in Tokyo, but am certainly not part of this > writing scene. I guess my "region" is my fading memory of the East coast of > the USA, which I sometimes attempt to rekindle when I post here. Actually, > I feel more and more that my region is the internet. Jess > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:11:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: a fun Duchamp website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.understandingduchamp.com/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:27:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Regions Comments: To: b.watten@WAYNE.EDU In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021119094237.00b1bd68@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Barry: Thanks for all these interesting configurations re LA, Germans & Spicer. A new term (?) such as "meta-regional" may mean something in terms of work happening within a region but simultaneously transcending it as a meta-critique that transmits a validity on a global level. (Hong Kong - films- and Tokyo - graphics - probably also are or will achieve claim as similar sources of a "meta-regional/ cultural critique"). In the Davis case - as I think you suggest- it is a Los Angeles that jumps out of Los Angeles= . City of Quartz a refreshing quantum breach of Kevin Starr's informative, but tradition framed narrative record/analysis. Spicer's San Francisco Giant's "Diamond" is multi-valent and does and does not have a relationship with the play on the actual field. Rexroth's campsite and trees and leaves in the Sierra remain such and as such are a space for erotic and religious illumination and meditation. A frustration: I can't get the Marks site to open up your essay - on my screen there does not seem to be a forward sign into the prose. Stan Douglas' great collapsed house photo is all I get. Where Kit Robinson's poems are accessible. I.e., is there some help here? Stephen Vincent =20 on 11/19/02 6:54 AM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: > I've been asked to elaborate on this: >=20 >> Mike Davis's contribution to the theory of regions is the "noir" moment >> when the Frankfurt School hit the beach at Santa Monica. It turns out th= at >> LA provided the negativity in buckets for critical theory--and that, >> conversely, negativity is as much a part of LA's regionalism as its >> tinseled positivity. When Davis started getting lots of critical attenti= on >> for this Frankenstein of an argument, that's when new California >> regionalism really took off. And its been Davis v. Kevin Starr ever sinc= e. >>=20 > Davis's work, after *City of Quartz*, depends on a "noir" account of LA--= as > an inverted utopia, a dystopia whose defunct production sites, neighborho= od > councils, and security zones mirror the utopian hopes at the basis of > Frankfurt School critical theory. Adorno's *Minima Moralia* and his books > about astrology and Fascist propaganda were written in LA, for instance. > The LA County Museum had a show about German expatriates in the war > years--everyone from Sch=F6nberg to Brecht to Adorno--and published a map > showing where everyone lived, many of them in Santa Monica. When I visite= d > Brecht's house in Berlin last summer, the tour guide kept correcting my > references to his LA residence to "Santa Monica." There is an exceptional= ly > funny CD cover for *Sch=F6nberg in Hollywood* showing the composer in a pin= k > shirt playing ping pong. Davis's genius was to put Hollywood noir and > German critical theory together as a basis for criticizing LA's "regional= " > culture. This drew him into a lively and ongoing debate with the author o= f > the competing, "old historicist" account, Kevin Starr, whose multivolume > cultural history of California has been coming out for the last fifteen > years or so, and which is highly worth reading. This, in turn, has > stimulated a great deal of interest in "thinking California," if that's n= ot > too theoretical. Some of that takes place in my afore-cited article at > *mark(s)*. In any case, California provided a basis for much of Adorno's > remarks on consumer culture, and in turn for Jameson's and Baudrillard's > account of the postmodern. The postmodern, then, would appear to have > "regional" entailments--as in Jameson's call for a practice of "cultural > mapping" to figure out where we are. >=20 > BW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:09:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Nick, >But I wonder if the >case of Spicer differs: because a specific local set of conditions and a >specific community gave rise to his poetry, does this make it regional? Spicer was obviously California-centric in his views of politics & culture. He attempted to prevent _J_ and _Open Space_ magazines and the publications of White Rabbit Press from being distributed outside the Bay Area. I think he also claimed to want California to break off from the rest of the U.S. & form its own independent republic. He admired Vachel Lindsay, who certainly was more of a regionalist in my first sense than Spicer was-- precisely because of his California aesthetic. (I don't have the bio at hand, but I'm sure others, or Kevin K himself, could expand on these points). The ~work~ of course is something else-- surely it's not limited to regionalism in the narrow (first) sense. But this is precisely the sort of distinction I was trying to get at by the more expansive (second) sense of the term I suggested. I really don't see how Spicer ~doesn't~ fit the term in that sense. Perhaps, Nick, you could expand on your point. (I also don't see-- to respond to Jesse Glass-- how the term "regionalism" necessarily implies an interest in nature as a theme in one's poetry. So yes I would agree: New York City is a "region" too). >I'm >curious: is there poetry important to you that isn't regional, in your >second >sense? (Surely the opposite of the regional would be not the national or >universal, god help us, but something like the "cosmopolitan"--poetry >written >precisely in the absense of shared local values.....otherwise "regional" >becomes a code word for "avant-garde," which inevitably evokes the >"mainstream," and we're back to THAT story...) You make an interesting point, which I hadn't really thought about. Yes, many poets important to me can be seen as "regional" in the second sense. However, there are some cases where it doesn't seem clear to me that "regional" is a relevant starting point: Stein, Loy, Artaud, Mac Low, Coolidge, and even Ashbery (despite his NY School pedigree) come to mind. And yes, what would the opposite of regional be? Not universal-- certainly not. Maybe "national" in the glib, fake sense that smoothes over the differences-- kind of like the respective nonregional "accents" of media announcers in the U.S. & U.K. To me the word regional doesn't necessarily imply community, so I think your take on "cosmopolitan" is actually closer to my second/more expansive sense of regional. Do we really want a poetry that reflects shared values? Whose values? Bound to be those of Dana Gioia & Billy Collins in some way, UNLESS we insist on those regionalist differences/regions of difference (a.k.a. Temporary Autonomous Zones). Good talking to you, Mark <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'A sentence thinks loudly.' -—Gertrude Stein http://www.pavementsaw.org/cosmopolitan.htm http://www.nyspp.com/lisa/soc.htm >From: Nick LoLordo >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:53:36 -0800 > >Quoting Mark DuCharme : > > > > It seems to me that there is Regionalism & then there's "regionalism." >The > > one being an obvious attempt to hoist "local color" as rationale for > > artistic choices; the other an attempt to acknowledge "the local" within >an > > artistic & intellectual framework that's not limited to region, & thus > > (mainly) to anecdotal experience. I think here not just of Spicer, but >even > > more primarily of the New York School, and/or of even the aforementioned > > West Coast Langpos. > > >One does tend to forget that New York City is a region ("centrality is the >power of the dominant margin" as Charles Bernstein says somewhere)--and I >say >this as a "provincial" myself--until, say, one teaches O'Hara to >undergraduates >in Las Vegas....I found myself comparing him to Niedecker precisely as >regional >poets, working, Mark, through a set of ideas that seem similar to your two >versions of regionalism in the order you give them......But I wonder if the >case of Spicer differs: because a specific local set of conditions and a >specific community gave rise to his poetry, does this make it regional? >I'm >curious: is there poetry important to you that isn't regional, in your >second >sense? (Surely the opposite of the regional would be not the national or >universal, god help us, but something like the "cosmopolitan"--poetry >written >precisely in the absense of shared local values.....otherwise "regional" >becomes a code word for "avant-garde," which inevitably evokes the >"mainstream," and we're back to THAT story...) > >Nick > >-- >Vincent Nicholas LoLordo >Assistant Professor >Department of English >University of Nevada-Las Vegas >Las Vegas, NV 89154 >(702) 895-3623 _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:08:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: free at last Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" In case you think we need homeland security, note that it's already been addressed. Just think what 100 million could do to shore up the "tradition" of poetry. This from a wonderful interview with a poet-editor: interviewer: Are all editors acquiring editors? poet-editor: There are some in-house editors that do more manuscript editing and copyediting, but in most trade houses editors do acquire books. Most of it is through agents now. With the whole anthrax scare, people are less inclined to be reading unsolicited manuscripts. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:19:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT not my school -- so I defined it against the NYS (there's considerable cross-pollination) -- which I also wrote as a regionalism -- a group of poets at a place and time, & that New American... is a regionalist anthology which was particularly bad at capturing the "unnamed fifth school." Rexroth did some of the Coit Tower murals. Everson has Markham through Rexroth, incl. Jeffers, obviously Lee Bartlett has Everson, McClure, Rexroth, Duncan, Snyder, Gunn, Tarn, Palmer, and the (male) west coast language poets I used "Chinese menu of themes" for several reasons; one is to counter the "bunch o' white guys syndrome". Utopia / dystopia without LA is pretty darned impossible. Michael Davidson includes the female west coast language poets & Hass, but let's face it, except for him and for LACMA (which, isn't the exhibit-based poetry curated from across the street?), nobody's devoted enough attention to women in CA. Mexican-American poets and African American poets? Pacific Rim poets? Forget about it. Biggest problem focusing on Bay area and Reed: Acker. Another annoying problem: Roethke. Really, everything south of Santa Barbara and north of Portland isn't on this west coast, which is a distinct geographic area. There are about five regions in CA: desert, "self identified working class" (Davis' Fontana together with the imperial valley), and borderlands would be my adds to So Cal and Bay area. Northern CA, Sierras, etc. always get elided since they're not populous. 'An Apple Fell in the Night and a Wagon Stopped' from Ploughshares??? Please. A local slam poet (Rick Lupert) uses OC as a trope for self-referentiality. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net P.S. Vachel Lindsay -- from Illinois. A Portland poet named Hazel Hall (confined in an attic by her family) had a crush on him -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:59:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: The Food of Poets In-Reply-To: <20021119151124.79949.qmail@web10805.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/19/international/europe/19EDIN.html?8hpib Haggis, the Food of Poets (Well, One Scottish Poet) By WARREN HOGE EDINBURGH, Nov. 14 — Consider the haggis and you may well wonder how it inspired a rhapsodic poem, became Scotland's national dish and touched off an incipient rebellion when Britain's food safety office hinted that it might ban it. Swaddled tightly in the yellowed stomach lining of a sheep, a mixture of congealed fat, onions, pinhead oatmeal, stock and the cut-up heart, lungs and liver of the animal has a lumpen look that even the eulogizing poet, Robert Burns, compared to the sight of bare buttocks. .... mmmmm.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:00:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Red Owl Drama Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Voice 1: A Lemur, sudden and solitary Voice 2: Time travel had augmented expectancy Voice 1: Those examples alert these mountains Voice 3: Knob's opened in heart stops Voice 2: Cornell Woolrich has no need for a name Voice 1: Lamp (or war) faraway overnights Voice 3: Rebellion changed ship, given full reign Voice 1: Ridiculous, & it takes two to tango Voice 3: "Bean is per scene!" the Top Hat cries to his Gold Watch-Chain Voice 2: The Top Hat will spend his last days as a beggar outside a church somewhere in the Midi Voice 3: The "fuck" part -- fucking notable historical personages and the way even minor characters get down to fucking Voice 2: Wafer-thin conjectures know where they're going Voice 1: What is your idea of perfect happiness? What is your motto? What do you most deplore in yourself? What do you consider your greatest achievement? Voice 1: Dying of hypothermia in the hill's shadow Voice 2: Nous dormirons ensemble un peu raclant leurs vers: The sky has been over these woods for a long time The horizon may blow over Voice 1: The feed-in of two hundred people was Petey The Wheatstraw's father Voice 3: Janey Davenport wants to kill Beagle Darwin! Don't kill Beagle Darwin, Janey! Voice 2: He is late for an appointment with the Crown Voice 1: I'll sear your name with candles upon walls! Voice 3: Only tailors are worse than this union that stands you well Voice 1: Top rating determined by the length of reference Voice 3: Hopes & eruptions with sparks of spot-prestige Voice 2: A sample of my own flesh left to flower Voice 3: a sea out in space the rumor said to cover Voice 2: Those triangles which never before dialed zero Voice 1: Nature is always trying to cobble together a Real Tree, thieves opted for the test Voice 1: Deformities, while they last, avoid equity Voice 2: We're obliged to face the lion-drawn audience _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:53:33 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Charles Bernstein in the Washington Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50877-2002Nov13.html Worth it for the illustration alone, Ron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:21:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Paul Muldoon in the Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/19/books/19MULD.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:54:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Red Room reading, 11/22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In which of our many cities,great or small? DB -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Belz To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:05 AM Subject: Red Room reading, 11/22 RSVP IF YOU PLAN TO ATTEND-- + + + + + + + MATT KIRBY, AARON BELZ, MIKE TOPP Friday 11/22 at the Red Room * Plus: the banjo frailins of Professor Fruitgum * And: words of welcome by Jim Feast * And also: Introductory comments by Matt Lintzenich http://meaningless.com/redroom/ $8 a person, or more if you can afford it. DOORS OPEN 7:30 SHOW AT 8 See you there, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:48:04 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Paul Muldoon in the Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from poet mot dit to a professor at Princeton (via Baber & Faber who never published anybody twenty years old before... the whole thing is mind buggling! murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:57:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: prey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII prey i write always with textual prey, subject matter; i write what is essen- tial to me, that is, of the nature of the being or fit of the world - outside of this i'm weak, comatose, tongue-tied - within it i am dictated - i live sometimes in the house of unix - i want to know where i am - what's happening there - it's a home i share with others - these commands which are single-valued, monotonic - descriptors of the landscape/langue-scape - w / who / whoami - the speakers, self, community, active agents - ls - what's here, what's in my vicinity - pwd - what's right here, where am i - date - at this time netstat - what's distance, what's happening out there - top - what's closer, what's happening in here - df / du - the size of the place - yes - primordial process - cd - going home exit - leaving it then the place - the moment and inhabitation of the place - others near and far - when the world explodes, they'll be all that remains - they'll have gone to - electricity out - dead wires, not enough batteries - dead satellites - burned-out fiber-optic - you'll see - for a moment - === ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:58:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: prey In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You're gig is tonight, right? See you there. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:09:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: Buy Nothing Day contest for bannerart.org / "Buy Nothing Day" concours pour bannerart.org Comments: cc: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, Director_Art@yahoogroups.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com, ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +-----------------------------------------------------------+ Hello everyone In connection with Buy Nothing Day (November 29th in America and Canada, November 30th in Europe), an annual international event held to protest t= he unoffical opening day of holiday shopping, the Banner Art Collective is holding a contest for the best presentation of net.art and subvertisement= s in online advertising space. Entries will be accepted up until November 28th (the day before Buy Nothi= ng Day state side). The winner will be announced on Buy Nothing Day (Novemb= er the 29th), both on the site and to the press. A Grand Prize of $0 (USD) will be distributed to the winner, and the winning banner will be feature= d on the front page of the Banner Art Collective's website for one month. A= ll entries will be added to bannerart.org's permanent collection of net.art = in advertising space. To submit work, go to www.bannerart.org, review the requirements and limitations detailed on the site, and use the submission form upload your work for review. Please mark in the "special requirements" field on the upload form that your submission is for the contest and not just for norm= al entry on the site's continuing bannerart exhibition, submissions for whic= h are continuing as usual. Best, Brandon Barr & Garrett Lynch Banner Art Collective +-----------------------------------------------------------+ +-----------------------------------------------------------+ Salut tous Au cause de "Buy Nothing Day" - achete rien jour (Novembre le 29 en Etais Unis et Canada, Novembre 30 en Europe), un fete international contre cett= e saison de Noel qui est de plus en plus un vacances commercialise, le Bann= er Art Collective annonce un concours pour le meilleur oeuvre de net.art et subvertisement (un travaille contre publicite) dans un espace de publicit= e internet. Soumissions sont accepte jusque a le 28 de Novembre (le jour avant "Buy Nothing day" en Etais Unis). Le gagnant va ete annonce le 29 de Novembre= , sur le site et le internet. Un grand prix de $0 (USD) (soit 0=A4) va ete donne a le gagnant et le banniere va ete expose sur le page d'acceuil de = le Banner Art Collective pour un duree de un mois. Tous soumissions va ete ajoute a le collection permanent. Pour soumis un travaille, alle a le site www.bannerart.org, lit le regles= de soumission et utilise le formulaire pour charge votre travaille sur le serveur. Dans le formulaire fait attention a marquer le travaille 'pour = le concours' dans le champs "special requirements". Soumissions pour le exp= o de bannerart en general continue comme toujours. a+ Brandon Barr & Garrett Lynch Banner Art Collective +-----------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:24:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Take the Fast Track to Success Falling in love Would be nice or Better be After all the Ridiculous pomp and Hype Persons with Schizophrenia and their mothers are sought for Predictions into the caustic souls of their Doctors And I seek a woman with many of the Answers in her jeans Focus irises on parts of the eye and some Kind of Gorgeous flower While on autopilot, Ease back into chatter that precludes conversation And encourages further Outbursts, persons with mothers sought for schizophrenic Photographs beside calm Reflecting Pools if the Stink of rebirth does you in You'll never chart the Stars in all their Gory detail, or be Sought by doctors for Blood or visits at home I've come to Conquer your shores and Kiss your Schizos Confident of balance and Collapse Falling in love Would be better than falling off the Citgo sign and into the dirty Charles Ease back into the Only voice that matters The one that's Telling you Jump! _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:31:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Karate Club Talking Points What starts as a Happy accident Always turns Into a crater the size of CT Snap to your own Personal borders And find that you've been abandoned by the Best and brightest of the new Millennium, so long you backstabbers And beside Boats rowed ashore We find several Root causes defaced in Recent days Kiss me I'm panicking and inside Interiors the barking Don't ever quit, not even a bit Read it back to me in Khmer, every Hollow *minute* I dumped you Years ago at the mall which entitles me to an Orange Julius and never Having to see You cry again, you shoulda read what you were Signing Can't wait to get as Stoned as Medusa And ponder the perspectives of Modern dizziness Become chronic in our Bedrooms and classrooms The light will come to you, Only if you Practice _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:50:41 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: paula speck Subject: Re: Charles Bernstein in the Washington Post Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed All-- I saw that article, too. It was funny, despite the undercurrent of condescension. Anyway, Charles comes off better than the subject of Weingarten's last foray into the arts, the Linda Lerman Dance Ensemble, a local modern dance group. Lerman had just won a MacArthur grant to continue her dance projects using both professional dancers and people from the community. Weingarten chose to highlight a dance in which people were invited to bring their pet dogs and dance along with them. It may indeed have been a silly and artistically pointless dance (or it may have been great), but it was the only part of a large ongong project that he focused on. Maybe to write humor you just have to distort things, in small or large ways. Ditto about the illustration. Now I really want to see the actual high school yearbook photo! Paula Speck >From: Ron >Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Charles Bernstein in the Washington Post >Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:53:33 -0500 > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50877-2002Nov13.html > >Worth it for the illustration alone, > >Ron _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:41:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AdeenaKarasick@CS.COM Subject: Adeena Karasick at the Knitting Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to let those interested know -- i will be reading tomorrow night at the Knitting Factory at 7:00 pm (74 Leonard St. / Bet. Broadway & Church] Also, in case anyone is planning on being in Europe in the next few weeks, i will be doing a performance tour through UK and Paris: Cities and venues include: Sun. Nov. 24 Tron Bar, Hunter Square, Royal Mile, EH1 Edinburgh 8:00 pm Mon. Nov. 25 The Cafe Unlimited, Gloucester Road, Bishopston, Bristol 7:00 pm Tues. Nov. 26 Red Room, Quod Bar, High Street, Oxford 8:00 pm Thurs. Nov. 28 Poetry Wales / Dylan Thomas Center Somersett Place Swansea, Wales 6:30 pm Fri. Nov. 29 The Poetry Society 22 Betterston St. London, UK Sun. Dec. 1 Kilometre Zero Paris, France 9:00 pm Mon. Dec. 2 Cite Universitaire, American House. Paris, France Thurs. Jan. 23 Exoterica New York, NY 8:00 pm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:37:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Re: Regions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent > A frustration: I can't get the Marks site to open up your > essay - on my screen there does not seem to be a forward sign > into the prose. Stan Douglas' great collapsed house photo is > all I get. Where Kit Robinson's poems are accessible. I.e., > is there some help here? http://www.markszine.com/102/bwind.htm (the title page -- and to the right of the photo is a link to 'next page') http://www.markszine.com/102/bw1.htm (beginning page for the essay) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:48:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Buy Nothing Day contest for bannerart.org / "Buy Nothing Day" concours pour bannerart.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Brandon, Give this a try :-) http://www.daemen.edu/pages/ggatza/life Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Barr" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:09 PM Subject: Buy Nothing Day contest for bannerart.org / "Buy Nothing Day" concours pour bannerart.org > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > > Hello everyone > > In connection with Buy Nothing Day (November 29th in America and Canada, > November 30th in Europe), an annual international event held to protest the > unoffical opening day of holiday shopping, the Banner Art Collective is > holding a contest for the best presentation of net.art and subvertisements > in online advertising space. > > Entries will be accepted up until November 28th (the day before Buy Nothing > Day state side). The winner will be announced on Buy Nothing Day (November > the 29th), both on the site and to the press. A Grand Prize of $0 (USD) > will be distributed to the winner, and the winning banner will be featured > on the front page of the Banner Art Collective's website for one month. All > entries will be added to bannerart.org's permanent collection of net.art in > advertising space. > > To submit work, go to www.bannerart.org, review the requirements and > limitations detailed on the site, and use the submission form upload your > work for review. Please mark in the "special requirements" field on the > upload form that your submission is for the contest and not just for normal > entry on the site's continuing bannerart exhibition, submissions for which > are continuing as usual. > > Best, > Brandon Barr & Garrett Lynch > Banner Art Collective > > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > > > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > > Salut tous > > Au cause de "Buy Nothing Day" - achete rien jour (Novembre le 29 en Etais > Unis et Canada, Novembre 30 en Europe), un fete international contre cette > saison de Noel qui est de plus en plus un vacances commercialise, le Banner > Art Collective annonce un concours pour le meilleur oeuvre de net.art et > subvertisement (un travaille contre publicite) dans un espace de publicite > internet. > > Soumissions sont accepte jusque a le 28 de Novembre (le jour avant "Buy > Nothing day" en Etais Unis). Le gagnant va ete annonce le 29 de Novembre, > sur le site et le internet. Un grand prix de $0 (USD) (soit 0¤) va ete > donne a le gagnant et le banniere va ete expose sur le page d'acceuil de le > Banner Art Collective pour un duree de un mois. Tous soumissions va ete > ajoute a le collection permanent. > > Pour soumis un travaille, alle a le site www.bannerart.org, lit le regles de > soumission et utilise le formulaire pour charge votre travaille sur le > serveur. Dans le formulaire fait attention a marquer le travaille 'pour le > concours' dans le champs "special requirements". Soumissions pour le expo > de bannerart en general continue comme toujours. > > a+ > Brandon Barr & Garrett Lynch > Banner Art Collective > > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:16:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Ninth Annual White Pine Press Poetry Prize Opens For Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ninth Annual White Pine Press Poetry Prize Opens For Submissions The Ninth Annual White Pine Press Poetry Prize is now open for submissions. The Award is $1,000 and publication. The competition is open to U.S. Citizens. Manuscripts may be up to eighty pages long and must be original work. Translations are not eligible. Poems may have appeared in magazines or limited edition chapbooks. Manuscripts must be postmarked no later than November 30 and should be sent to White Pine Press Poetry Prize, PO Box 236, Buffalo, NY 14201 Entries sent via express service that do not deliver to post office boxes should be sent to White Pine Press Poetry Prize, White Pine Press, 5783 Pinehurst Court, Lake View, NY 14085. Checks for $20 per entry to cover the reading fee should be made payable to White Pine Press. Manuscripts will not be returned. If you would like notification as to the winner, please send a stamped, self addressed business-size envelope along with your entry. Entries will be screened by our editorial staff. The final judge, a poet of national reputation, will be announced at the conclusion of the competition. SUBMISSION GUIDELINES Manuscript Requirements: Manuscript must be typed, and book length (64-96 pages) Manuscript must be original (translations are not eligible) and the work of an individual author. The collection of poems must be unpublished. Individual poems may have been published in periodicals or limited edition chapbooks. The author'name may appear on the cover page ONLY. A self-addressed, stamped postcard is optional for notification of receipt of entry. Reading fee: $20.00 (payable by check or money order) Entry period: July 1 - Nov 30, 2002 Entries must be postmarked by: Nov. 30 2002 Judging Entries are screened by the editorial board of White Pine Press. The winner is selected from the finalists by a poet of national reputation. The name of the final judge will be announced at the end of the competition. Past judges have been: David St. John, Mekeel McBride, Maurice Kenny and Pablo Medina. Please send entries with all required supplementary materials to: White Pine Press Poetry Prize PO Box 236 Buffalo, NY 14201 Due to the large number of entries received, manuscripts cannot be returned. Previous Winners: 1995 - Nancy Johnson, Zoo & Cathedral 1996 - Deborah Gorlin, Bodily Course 1997 - Jacqueline Johnson, A Gathering of Mother Tongues 1998 - David Keller, Trouble in History Copies of these books should be available from your local bookseller. If you cannot find them, they may be ordered directly from the press for $12.00 plus $3.00 shipping and handling. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:58:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Maxwell Subject: Re: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journa l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's amazing to think that Poetry now has a larger literary arts budget than the annual NEA and NEH literary contributions combined. Perfect fit though. A friend reminds me to take solace knowing that the lines appearing therein are now subsidized by Prozac. Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:16:06 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These machines of death are valued more to protect Harr'ys wonderful capitalism and his high flyers and his seething mass of hollywood degenerates and others with huge incomes than good working people. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:01 AM Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry > Just to put this in perspective, the Lilly bequest wouldn't > buy "us" even one F-22 fighter plane. > > http://www.cdi.org/issues/budget/FY03weapons-pr.cfm > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard@earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:58:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: POETS for PEACE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interested in Peace? Then try PREEMPTIVE POETRY: There will be a Poets for Peace Reading, THIS Sunday, November 24, 2 PM at the Ethical Society 1906 Rittenhouse Square, Philadelphia, PA Herman Beavers, Stephen Berg, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Kristine Grow, Bob Perelman, Gil Ott, Kerry Sherin, Susan Stewart and Larry Robin will be among the poets and speakers. This event is free and for everyone with an interest in Peace; Please support this inspiring and important event! Further information, directions: Leonard Gontarek 215-386-7171 / gontarekl@aol.com; Alicia Askenase/ askealicia@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:47:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Susan Wheeler + Andrea Baker Susan Wheeler is the author of three books of poetry, most recently Source Codes from Salt Publishing. The recipient of a 1999 Guggenheim Fellowship and the Witter Bynner Prize for Poetry from the American Academy of Arts and Letters in 2002, she teaches at Princeton University and is on the graduate faculty in creative writing at The New School in New York City. Andrea Baker lives and works in Brooklyn, New York. Her work has appeared recently in Can We Have Our Ball Back, Masthead, and new work is forthcoming in LIT. She is Associate Poetry Editor at 3rd bed (http://www.3rdbed.com). About the Frequency Series: Curated by Daniel Nester and Shanna Compton, the Frequency Series began in September 2002 and features poets and writers such as Hal Sirowitz, Joe Wenderoth, Wayne Koestenbaum, David Lehman, Sam Lipsyte, and Maggie Estep, as well as talented newcomers. For a full schedule, go to http://www.softskull.com/events. The Frequency Series happens Sundays at 2:00 and is free. These events are generously supported by Poets & Writers. About Soft Skull Press: SOFT SKULL PRESS is fearless, progressive, punk-rock/hip-hop literature. Based in downtown Brooklyn, Soft Skull publishes the history, pop culture studies, art, poetry and fiction that fuel the vanguard. All of Soft Skull's titles are available for purchase in fine bookstores everywhere, at our very own Shortwave, and on our website (http://www.softskull.com). Directions to Shortwave: Take the A/C or G to Hoyt-Schemerhorn. Exit to Bond Street. Make a right on Bond and go 1 block to State Street. Shortwave is on the corner of Bond and State. OR take the F/G to Bergen Street. Walk 2 blocks east on Bergen to Bond Street. Make a left on Bond and go 4 blocks to State. Shortwave is on the corner of Bond and State. For more information, contact: daniel@softskull.com or shanna@softskull.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:43:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Wheeler Subject: Again, with date, time & apologies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Soft Skull Shortwave's Frequency Reading Series Sunday, November 24th at 2:00 p.m. Susan Wheeler + Andrea Baker Susan Wheeler is the author of three books of poetry, most recently Source Codes from Salt Publishing. The recipient of a 1999 Guggenheim Fellowship and the Witter Bynner Prize for Poetry from the American Academy of Arts and Letters in 2002, she teaches at Princeton University and is on the graduate faculty in creative writing at The New School in New York City. Her web site is http://www.susanwheeler.net. Andrea Baker lives and works in Brooklyn, New York. Her work has appeared recently in Can We Have Our Ball Back, Masthead, and new work is forthcoming in LIT. She is Associate Poetry Editor at 3rd bed (http://www.3rdbed.com). About the Frequency Series: Curated by Daniel Nester and Shanna Compton, the Frequency Series began in September 2002 and features poets and writers such as Hal Sirowitz, Joe Wenderoth, Wayne Koestenbaum, David Lehman, Sam Lipsyte, and Maggie Estep, as well as talented newcomers. For a full schedule, go to http://www.softskull.com/events. The Frequency Series happens Sundays at 2:00 and is free. These events are generously supported by Poets & Writers. About Soft Skull Press: SOFT SKULL PRESS is fearless, progressive, punk-rock/hip-hop literature. Based in downtown Brooklyn, Soft Skull publishes the history, pop culture studies, art, poetry and fiction that fuel the vanguard. All of Soft Skull's titles are available for purchase in fine bookstores everywhere, at our very own Shortwave, and on our website (http://www.softskull.com). Directions to Shortwave: Take the A/C or G to Hoyt-Schemerhorn. Exit to Bond Street. Make a right on Bond and go 1 block to State Street. Shortwave is on the corner of Bond and State. OR take the F/G to Bergen Street. Walk 2 blocks east on Bergen to Bond Street. Make a left on Bond and go 4 blocks to State. Shortwave is on the corner of Bond and State. For more information, contact: daniel@softskull.com or shanna@softskull.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:05:39 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: Lily Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Andrew - Prozac, that drug with blastantly false statistics about health hazards .... brought to you by the company who brought you the drug developed under George HW Bush's direction, the one that can permanently erase your sex drive (try taking it for two years, and see how your sex drive is two years after that, and then see if anyone else has had the same experience; problems are certainly more frequent than the reported double blind rate of less than 5%. And Lily (coincidentally? lok at their contributions to the bush campaign) is the company now receiving special exemptions for drug safety under the new Homeland Security Act. yes, that's right, these right wing zealot thieves have cronied their way into using Lily vaccinations on US military, and those vaccinations are exempted from ANY medical testing. That is to say, if we invade Iraq, the Bush clan could just use Lily as a conduit to give some soldiers some sort of biological warfare disease claimed to be "vaccines." then when the american public asks about evidence of saddam's weapons of mass destruction, the bush and psycho-righties can just hold up the diseased soldiers as "evidencde" of saddam's crimes. i mean they need evidence, since we live in a democracy and all. at least for now, at least in part, a democracy. so the question is, when you buy poetry, do you somehow endorse george bush? homeland security? will reading the journal now pose a threat to your sex drive? to your ability to stabilize your moods over the long haul? and if prozac induces insomnia, will reading Poetry after the bequest suddenly cease to put countless readers to sleep as it has done for so long? (except of course for those of you here who have been published in poetry; your poem was certainly not soporific). The third paragraph may or may not be more ludicrous than the other two. only the latter involved a deliberate attempt at humor. Patrick (i was dying to use "soporific" ever since a kindly old man with a rare case of genital rosacea whispered it in my ear recently.) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:58:18 -0800 From: Andrew Maxwell Subject: Re: A billionaire's ode to charity: $100 million to poetry journa l It's amazing to think that Poetry now has a larger literary arts budget than the annual NEA and NEH literary contributions combined. Perfect fit though. A friend reminds me to take solace knowing that the lines appearing therein are now subsidized by Prozac. Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:01:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: robb collins near-text-experience #010 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit robb collins near-text-experience010...[excerpt] Into th e than that delays and ct boats, t , deaths of The situati m, which ca n the prese e most affe me half-int means the eads, so th ully sick a y are going ripping car e. r her body to Feeling the m on. It fel Erotic... s l the And not kno t except Vo "What is it "We lived w k for one he fi He'd heard reak in New al with the ir destiny. wn 'Here's som 'I wish I wo 'Who's ther 'Don't stop great especia . Robert poin omans eight ch they cal then Ermin sucki (This is ho "I think I w uck me! Ple "What a bea wagons whic led with he ng town of B As they rat he turmoil, Ad tion of new age from th the nation' ade has pas ed or the D ill brave a amp in it wi It was not t zy while th ery bias te o do a bette s probably "very optim nistration s the water e flowers m ith a pleas ng their le igh her wel up her min they came n ched that s "We mustn't For some ti trade-of n't resist ight be the "By and lar dit to who a not disprov keep the se ays this to years older ng habit of . t r. softly. Wha . I think he proud of hi lacksmith' not hat I shoul It was Satu interviewe that villai ye disease boys we pert's clot two behind. a--one of t te hot weat Perhaps the or declinin "I expect t ost reducti One names, and so I was obl of sex, and hat is, of a ng J. Z. gorgeous ar from London wn; also na "How is the eirs in the his c g evidence s, M. Godin ught within o him which the her hand ha Then Jay's They sank t uttons on h rs without ter that th d to give he he purpose t to Maitla ed Gwen was 'You must n rposed the 'Wery good, 'Do you rec re first Kundalini f , which are nary powers aths of Yog otion), Jna " "American d his first d , America h s--terrori s. The a li smakers had s from the s andles and they got ou k and standing the ill-fat n, with Cri aplings, fo shirt, with hich someon Mary Rother ad always w "In summert es they noise of t ed, it seem But a minut and lanky V "Are you ho they ha Robert's ma ght, told t counties" w Warwickshi comfortabl ing up my cu "I was worr "I almost d "A "I have dec "Have you h ncement. "No," he re ember, and Germans ghter to se etition in To the Offe Mitchell or ind liable legs , administe all the gob m without m tiers ch her with me, I said t She was jus ndness and te. If I m The US Inte ontinuing n 994 Agreed ld only be n "We've "Peace,""I shall accom hers will r ey will pro loodshed if onnaissanc th both rec By Sept. 11 d plans for e inexperie retai 'You are, S The Serjean 'Mr. Pickwi 'to state t 'And a low t 'And an unr The poor gr stowed upon everybody Wardle take m takes his se; Mr. Pic him. As he d joy. Let case. I ease take t At this the emed decide to prove th e "It's your ng for your Janet wante d now was a story. ys and lesb basic milit rce. And fu y people to views suppo and waited. The young m "Good morro "Good morro a bow. "" "Put the ho By the ways own, there e darkness other, . Of course . Yes, Erne , in desper I am not you It is ro ith its pic ooks out of wn and comm ses almost the that a ni Gwen in ful , I thought of the youn into his ca he went on for a box secur "Mother! mo They all hu e key, and orgot about haft. I qui ediately, J er and sunk e, he only t going?' 'They're on ing directl 'Going!' sa as Mr. Pick sh hope and re love, he d having hi y; for, thi harioteer o w rving that would knock ing that su clined to o informed of serv erage basic Redux also Adjustment tch inflati rall viation Med facility wa Texas, and Farewell to Aviation oh dear, no dle out, an wick an opp . 'Take any tion at Mr. you Avory asked "'If'!""St Kink, who w " he then sa o go fold the look of g one's sel ough Derric the sitting ; and al efore ask y es like tho claimed, wh ct that upo Latour and the Chr ound, very re born Chr ths, but al ay be not, on the gov Congress al ses to help ed the Depa retired mil "Oh, she's ing for my b "I think I n I went quic n't see saw nt inside. She rushed bed before leg just ab rose l: the holy . I live acc y flesh in p es. Another but when I and a g an inch of h by herself. ed around a nd taunts s fingers in She was pra nd up in her was fucking She was there at my excit "There is n ave come to ""Well," co do imly, and c 'In this ha len growl t nd then pas rchyard. N h e that this yers, head iefs of Sta Myers obser est, say. There r loyal cap fe ship thi "But the en at single-h , in all her ea that she half girl, at's Gwen D She makes d an attitu you have to ery essence ng away wit ndulge in e m he Lord has had carried ght have up "But you mu "We "Excuse me, sent here f They have b "Ha!""Perh "That," sai our enthusi It behooves f where our last vestig n hand. At brea Mr. Pickwic involuntar which Job h two hours' le, and the s cold and st "It was the n. "It was NOT 'Gabriel st on him, He was pant d holding o h other. I b tart of som to do was ex . Simple. E the thought When she di He paused resp dy else's c ; but as it' e it to the his hat, an ing approach loftily. Ex f this hut. . I also hav That don't --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:03:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: WALT HOWARD TOLL BOOTH COLLECTOR #025 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WALT HOWARD TOLL BOOTH COLLECTOR #025 [excerpt] www.thescare.com Rainfall Anomaly Index Job-Employee-Employer Auto Call Unit Just Kidding Interservice Nuclear Weapons School how Remote Line Module fuel pump metering unit Albuquerque Operations Office Special Services Center Maintenance Parts Breakdown Queen International Computer guidance navigation control/propulsion Interconnection Subscriber Interactive Query Language unnecessary which Large Solar Observatory piercing engineer record Time Daylight Time00 MuTating reeds Small Office Home Office snaring Archival Management Storage System comes WM Site Numerical Atmospheric Sciences Burghley Hatton Davison All Queen's counsellors they Association Control Protocol Machine Scalable security policy MultiMedia Access Center ATM Adaption Layer Davison after Interface Network Products Corp Drag biological effects ionizing radiation Common Management Information Services/System hath asw aircraft carrier IBM Equipment Identity Network Computer No Carry Numerical Control than entitled Pixels Per Inch They doubtless founded upon political naval air force atlantic fleet plottings entrap into Sainte Aldegonde T carrier Fault Locating Applications Program Global Change Data Information System fixed charge rate Conceptual Flight Profile given Fast Page Mode Low Level Spaniards point contact muster Interservice Nuclear Weapons School quadrupole doublet Chinese Ecological Research Network am driven butt line Hard Drive Davison doth weather information display String Oriented Symbolic Language Programming Language ISDN COnformance Testing Databases Backup Domain International Society Rock Mechanics personnel reliability program any Shallow Draft Board form storage public information officer Rolling On Floor Laughing Holding My Side mortal utility/utilization flight weapons certificates format Global System Mobile-Communications network from Unix Code Multiple-Systems Operator Advanced Airborne Surveillance Radar Preliminary Authority Proceed vhf omnidirectional range nuclear materials storage facility Transfer System Scale shock detonation transition out Functional Simulator events which taking product change proposal Payload Systems Operating Procedures Pulsating Current Mission Test Plan dealt Program Information Control Retrieval System scale factor laws circumcision polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons Interservice Nuclear Weapons School Chemical Technology Division ORNL corrective action design virtual path however Common Management Information Services/System Air Force Pamphlet nonhazardous oil field waste multiple sources depth-cueing Management System Day-Time High Pressure Test They have Vertical Test Flight T carrier Fault Locating Applications Program Source Code Control System hath Virtual Machine/Memory Manager received which Shift Register Numerical Laboratory Years Bundesanstalf Materielpr fung SOCiety Internet SOCiety Synchronous Transport Module Centre Nationale de Recherche Scientifique Fast Page Mode Low Level design review agreement Java 2 Enterprise Edition retrofit tool made sample Queen Parma's Recognition Status Register Environmental Measurements Laboratory DOE final design months I-Load Data Tape Irresponsible Captain Tylor Economic Research Service SAS MultiVendor Architecture my First Look Survey Real Audio Metafile file name extension Name Service Independent Food Management System total accumulated cyclestmttactical air control/command rightful vhf omnidirectional range supercritical water oxidation Version Emacs Jules Own information collection request lancers Communication Input/Output Control System contaminant analysis automation around programs risk advisory committee Where Can Get One beavers instinctively Factory Test Equipment over Just Kidding Interservice Nuclear Weapons School ionization potential Irresponsible Captain Tylor shock detonation transition Digital Sense Multiple Access Rolling On Floor --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:56:32 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: robb collins near-text-experience #010 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like an intereting mix of texts here. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "august highland" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:01 PM Subject: robb collins near-text-experience #010 > robb collins > near-text-experience010...[excerpt] > > > Into th e than that delays and ct boats, t , deaths of The situati m, which > ca n the prese e most affe me half-int means the eads, so th ully sick a y > are going ripping car e. r her body to Feeling the m on. It fel Erotic... s > l the And not kno t except Vo "What is it "We lived w k for one he fi He'd > heard reak in New al with the ir destiny. wn 'Here's som 'I wish I wo 'Who's > ther 'Don't stop great especia . Robert poin omans eight ch they cal then > Ermin sucki (This is ho "I think I w uck me! Ple "What a bea wagons whic led > with he ng town of B As they rat he turmoil, Ad tion of new age from th the > nation' ade has pas ed or the D ill brave a amp in it wi It was not t zy > while th ery bias te o do a bette s probably "very optim nistration s the > water e flowers m ith a pleas ng their le igh her wel up her min they came n > ched that s "We mustn't For some ti trade-of n't resist ight be the "By and > lar dit to who a not disprov keep the se ays this to years older ng habit of > . t r. softly. Wha . I think he proud of hi lacksmith' not hat I shoul It > was Satu interviewe that villai ye disease > boys we pert's clot two behind. a--one of t te hot weat Perhaps the or > declinin "I expect t ost reducti One names, and so I was obl of sex, and hat > is, of a ng J. Z. gorgeous ar from London wn; also na "How is the eirs in > the his c g evidence s, M. Godin ught within o him which the her hand ha > Then Jay's They sank t uttons on h rs without ter that th d to give he he > purpose t to Maitla ed Gwen was 'You must n rposed the 'Wery good, 'Do you > rec re first Kundalini f , which are nary powers aths of Yog otion), Jna " > "American d his first d , America h s--terrori s. The a li smakers had s > from the s andles and they got ou k and standing the ill-fat n, with Cri > aplings, fo shirt, with hich someon Mary Rother ad always w "In summert es > they noise of t ed, it seem But a minut and lanky V "Are you ho they ha > Robert's ma ght, told t counties" w Warwickshi > > comfortabl ing up my cu "I was worr "I almost d "A "I have dec "Have you h > ncement. "No," he re ember, and Germans ghter to se etition in To the Offe > Mitchell or ind liable legs , administe all the gob m without m tiers ch her > with me, I said t She was jus ndness and te. If I > > m The US Inte ontinuing n 994 Agreed ld only be n "We've "Peace,""I shall > accom hers will r ey will pro loodshed if onnaissanc th both rec By Sept. 11 > d plans for e inexperie retai 'You are, S The Serjean 'Mr. Pickwi 'to state > t 'And a low t 'And an unr The poor gr stowed upon everybody Wardle take m > takes his se; Mr. Pic him. As he d joy. Let case. I ease take t At this the > emed decide to prove th e "It's your ng for your Janet wante d now was a > story. ys and lesb basic milit rce. And fu y people to views suppo and > waited. The young m "Good morro "Good morro a bow. "" "Put the ho By the > ways own, there e darkness other, . Of course . Yes, Erne , in desper I am > not you It is ro ith its pic ooks out of wn and comm ses almost the that a > ni Gwen in ful , I thought of the youn into his ca he went on for a box > secur "Mother! mo They all hu e key, and orgot about haft. I qui ediately, J > er and sunk e, he only t going?' 'They're on ing directl 'Going!' sa as Mr. > Pick sh hope and re love, he d having hi y; for, thi harioteer o w rving > that would knock ing that su clined to o informed of serv erage basic Redux > also Adjustment tch inflati rall viation Med facility wa Texas, and Farewell > to Aviation oh dear, no dle out, an wick an opp . 'Take any tion at Mr. you > Avory asked "'If'!""St Kink, who w " he then sa o go fold the look of g > one's sel ough Derric the sitting ; and al efore ask y es like tho claimed, > wh ct that upo Latour and the Chr ound, very re born Chr ths, but al ay be > not, on the gov Congress al ses to help ed the Depa retired mil "Oh, she's > ing for my b "I think I n I went quic n't see saw nt inside. She rushed bed > before leg just ab rose l: the holy . I live acc y flesh in p es. Another > but when I and a g an inch of h by herself. ed around a nd taunts s fingers > in She was pra nd up in her was fucking She was there at my excit "There is > n ave come to ""Well," co do > > imly, and c 'In this ha len growl t nd then pas rchyard. N h e that this > yers, head iefs of Sta Myers obser est, say. There r loyal cap fe ship thi > "But the en at single-h , in all her ea that she half girl, at's Gwen D She > makes d an attitu you have to ery essence ng away wit ndulge in e m he Lord > has had carried ght have up "But you mu "We "Excuse me, sent here f They > have b "Ha!""Perh "That," sai our enthusi It behooves f where our last > vestig n hand. At brea Mr. Pickwic involuntar which Job h two hours' le, and > the s cold and st "It was the n. "It was NOT 'Gabriel st on him, He was pant > d holding o h other. I b tart of som to do was ex . Simple. E the thought > When she di He paused resp dy else's c ; but as it' e it to the his hat, an > ing approach loftily. Ex f this hut. . I also hav That don't > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:27:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Validated Parking Comments: To: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You can't murder the worth of flowers. I can, but I tried your shadow on my shoulders once; it was as snug as breathing in winter through a haze of amorousness. Like a spray of bolting the door against locking the phone in my room (you wouldn't pay for faces to trip over a fusion of gallery flames, eh?), you nail down the corners of the vestibule to keep everything in place, to avoid the seasonal rift that tips petal-colors one way, petal-silhouettes the other; sit down, beauty queen, and stitch the real back together ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:30:07 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM Subject: Re: 100 mil. for poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline or even a second-hand MiG 21 http://thestar.com.my/news/archives/story.asp?ppath=\2002\11\13&file=/2002/11/13/world/oljet&sec=world or http://www.nationaudio.com/News/EastAfrican/041099/Regional/Regional7.html At 19/11/2002 15:01:49, Halvard Johnson wrote: # Just to put this in perspective, the Lilly bequest wouldn't # buy "us" even one F-22 fighter plane. # # http://www.cdi.org/issues/budget/FY03weapons-pr.cfm # # Hal Serving the tri-state area. # # Halvard Johnson # =============== # email: halvard@earthlink.net # website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard # Roger ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 06:19:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: Poetry@MIT on 11/21 -- Del Ray Cross MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Friends, Colleagues & Perfect Strangers, If you are in the Boston / Cambridge area this Thursday evening, please come on over & hear me read a few poems at MIT! Thursday, November 21 at 7pm Bartos Auditorium at MIT which is at 20 Ames Street in Cambridge, Massachusetts FREE -- EVERYONE is invited Sponsored by the Program in Writing and Humanistic Studies at MIT. Please spread the good word & please come say hello! Thanks very much, Del Ray Cross ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:58:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: ED LIN*JOSEY FOO*ADEENA KARASICK*BARBARA DECESARE*COREY FROST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit November 20, 2002 at 7 PM--World Fusion Night Featuring Josey Foo, Adeena Karasick, Ed Lin, Barbara Decesare & Corey Frost. Co-sponsored with Kaya Press. Knitting Factory, 74 leonard Street, New York City. $5 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:11:51 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: New Jersey Fellows & Open mic 11/22 Comments: To: wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org, wh@dept.english.upenn.edu, whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Walt Whitman Arts Center presents a New Jersey State Council on the Arts Showcase Series Reading Friday, November 22, 7:30pm FREE The reading will take place in the Center's art gallery (3rd floor), followed by an open mic and refreshments, where you can also enjoy our current Dreamland Cafe* exhibition. Walt Whitman Art Center 2nd and Cooper Streets Camden, NJ 08102 For directions and information: 856-964-8300 wwhitman@waltwhitmancenter.org www.waltwhitmancenter.org ERLINDA VILAMOOR KRAVETZ is a former journalist who began writing fiction twelve years ago. A native of the Philippines, she came to this country in 1969. She holds master's degrees from Columbia University and New York University. Her stories have appeared in the Americas Review, Rosebud Magazine, Maryland Review, Taproot Literary Review, and in a few anthologies. The first story she wrote, "Reunion," won first prize in the First Philippine-American Short Story Competition, sponsored by the Philippine Arts, Letters and Media Council in Washington, D.C. She has completed a collection of short stories and is currently at work on a novel. She teaches fiction writing at Brookdale Community College, and was the founder and until recently, president of the Monmouth County Writers' Guild, Inc. STUART MITCHNER was born in Kansas, raised in Indiana, and attended Indiana University. He received NJ Arts Council grants in prose in 1985 and poetry in 1990 and served twice as a Council panelist. He has led writing workshops at Ohio State and College of New Jersey. His essays, short fiction, and poetry have appeared in Partisan Review, Raritan, Poetry, Chelsea, Press, Columbia Poetry Review. His writing has received three Pushcart Prize nominations. At present he has two books under consideration: a collection called The Book of Rides and a book of poetry, In Verisimilitude, two works-in-progress: a memoir, The Things She Never Said, and a project about the tenor saxophonist Wardell Gray. During the past twenty years Stuart has been a freelance copyeditor and proofreader for Rutgers University Press, Princeton University Press, Alfred A. Knopf, Beacon, Ecco, and Grove/Atlantic. *LULLABY for DREAMLAND As one of the first communities of its kind in the North, Lawnside, New Jersey was the back-drop for the story of African-Americans in the state. At the hub of this area was a series of clubs that entertained those from as far away as New York and Maryland with some of the greatest jazz musicians of the time. At the epi-center of this vital community during the Jim Crow era and beyond was the cafe-club, Dreamland. This photo exhibition documents many of the people and entertainers who frequented Dreamland. Alicia Askenase, Literary Director ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:10:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: belz visits NYC this weekend... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Buffpo Comrades, (Pardon the crossposting.) If you live in NYC, I'd like to see you this weekend. I'm reading at the Red Room on Friday night (http://meaningless.com/redroom/) -- Patrick Herron will be in attendance!! -- and at Ear Inn on Saturday afternoon (http://home.nyc.rr.com/earinnreadings/readings-nov02.htm) and at Knitting Factory's Alterknit Theater on Sat. evening at 6 (http://www.knittingfactory.com/). But don't come to the Saturday events--- your time would be better spent seeing the gang at the Bowery Poetry Club from 4-7 (http://www.alienated.net/article.php?sid=463). In person, The Dimpled Dandy. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:39:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: BANJO: Poets Talking, #2: Molly Russakoff & Jim Cory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's issue #2 below. Want to point out that, as in the e-mail version of=20 issue #1, the cover art is of course missing, as are the poems from each of=20 the poets, which close out the print versions of the issues. Issue #3 will be Buck Downs & Heather Fuller, and will be out sometime soon. Hope you enjoy #2. * * * * * * * * * * * * *=20 Banjo=20 poets talking #2=20 =A9 copyright 2002 text by=20 Molly Russakoff=20 & Jim Cory =A9 copyright 2002 cover art by Candace Kaucher Available from the address below for $1.08 an issue, or ask your local independent bookstore to stock it. This is clearly not about making=20 money, donations of any kind are much appreciated. Banjo =20 poets talking CAConrad, editor Mooncalf Press=20 POBox 22521 Philadelphia, PA 19110 MooncalfPress@aol.com MooncalfPress@hotmail.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * =93Intermittently I lose my family, within my own self. Too little time= =20 and too much rest required for reparation of one=92s energies. I would rath= er=20 replace them with the peers of my own craft. Any contact with them seems=20 raging and unstable. At other times they are straight and we are on an even= =20 keel. It=92s some interior nature of ours, the whole familial relationship,= =20 that determines its beings. I would much rather be with someone else,=20 yourselves, for instance.=94 --John Wieners, from =93The Lanterns Along the Wall=94 When I asked Molly Russakoff to lead issue #2 she eventually chose poet=20 Jim Cory, to my delight! Both were invaluable to my formative years of=20 poetry in various ways, as I=92m sure they were and continue to be to many=20 others. The generosity of these two poets should be a model for poets=20 everywhere. Below is something Molly mailed to me about the conversation sh= e=20 and Jim had for issue #2. Please enjoy. =20 --CAConrad, editor I was hungry for this conversation. In the middle of the chaos of my=20 daily life, the kids, packing to move, preparing to open my new store=20 (MOLLY'S CAFE & BOOKSTORE, 1010 S. 9th Street in the heart of Philadelphia= =92s=20 Italian Market, 215-923-3367), the thought of sitting and talking about=20 writing was just delicious to me. After making and breaking a delicate set=20 of plans over several weeks, our time had come. =20 I'd began running into Jim over the past year or so, in the hardware=20 store, in my restaurant and then at the poet Kyle Conner=92s dinner party. =20= We=20 spoke easily to one another, casual but not slight in our conversations. We=20 had a certain length and depth of experience in common, both having been a=20 prescence in the writing community in the 70's and 80's. We had plenty to=20 talk about. When he opened his door, I was struck by the staircase which seemed=20 suspended in the cross-section of a typical Philadelphia row house. He told= =20 me about the architectural decisions, and we talked about color and light an= d=20 the effects of walls and wallessness on space. The walls were hung with=20 paintings and he told me about each one, who painted it, how he came to=20 purchase it. He showed me through his home, pointing out closets he had=20 built, his shrine to past lovers, bookcases, all the comfortable details. I= t=20 was all fascinating to me, as I was just about to do my own place. I was=20 affected the idea of buying art and can't wait til I'm able to fall in love=20 with a piece and have it hanging on my now-bare walls. We talked about art=20 and began, naturally, to talk about writing. By the time we settled in his= =20 office, lined with books, a couple comfortable chairs, we'd had an hour's=20 worth of conversation. When the tape ran out, the conversation continued=20 longer into the night. --Molly Russakoff visit Molly's store online: http://www.mollysbooks.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * Recorded live January 10th, 2002 710 South 7th Street Philadelphia, USA=20 poet Jim Cory=92s home, where he lives with his three cats: Tansy, Pops, and the little terror Pete Molly Russakoff has been writing poetry since she was four years old. She=20 was a teaching assistant at Naropa Institute's Jack Kerouac School for=20 Disembodied Poetics in Boulder, Co. in the mid 1970's, where she worked with= =20 and studied under many of the Beat, New York School and Black Mountain=20 writers. She has been a part of the Philadelphia poetry community for over=20 20 years. She won a Pew Fellowship for poetry in 1993. Her work has been=20 published in The Paris Review, American Poetry Review and other literary=20 magazines. She currently lives with her two children in the Italian Market,= =20 where she owns a cafe and used bookstore. She can be contacted at=20 Mollysbooks@comcast.net Of degrees in writing or studies w/various teachers, Jim Cory can report=20 none. He has been writing poems since 12 & published his 1st at 20. He use= d=20 for models the American modernists (Pound & Williams), then chanced on their= =20 descendants in the various schools gathered in Donald Allen=92s New American= =20 Poetry anthology, a touchstone & aesthetic lifesaver. He is interested in=20 other forms of writing--drama, fiction, the essay, journalism, history--but=20 to him poetry remains the starting point & foundation of all other genres. =20 Jim draws comfort from the fact that if everything else in the world goes=20 completely to hell, there is an adequate supply of excellent poetry, produce= d=20 by all cultures over time. He can be reached at coryjim@earthlink.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * JC: Pete! Get out of there! MR: Oh, you have a Pete. I have a Jack. JC: Now what were we talking about? MR: You were talking about your piece =93Ace of Hearts.=94 You wrote a sec= ond=20 piece from that? JC: It started out as a poem and became a short story. Somehow I gained=20 control of the story form. It was total magic to me, because I had never=20 written what I considered to be a successful short story at that point in=20 time. The form had eluded me. I thought that it was my simply not having=20 the kind of mind that was disciplined in the right way to master that genre,= =20 even though I had wanted to, and even though I had attempted to. But=20 somehow, taking on the subject of fatal beauty with terrier-like=20 determination pushed it through to a successful conclusion. And out of that= =20 I learned how to do it. And I sat down with the stories I had written in th= e=20 80=92s and 90=92s and reworked them until they were successful. MR: So what ended up happening with them? JC: Two of them were published. One of the things I came to realize is tha= t=20 it=92s harder to publish fiction than poetry because with poems you just pri= nt=20 them out on your printer and send them off. But with a short story you=92ve= =20 got twenty or thirty pages, and you have to go to the copying place, you=92v= e=20 got to get the copies made, and it=92s this whole involved process of actual= ly=20 getting the work out. And when it comes to doing that anyway I=92m very laz= y=20 and unmotivated. My energy kind of shuts down at the point where I consider= =20 the work to be completed. I mean, if I read it to someone else and they get= =20 excited, that=92s good but-- MR: Yeah, I hate the mechanics of it. I completely lose interest too. The= =20 thrill of getting published just isn=92t that great for me. To keep going=20 through this process, it=92s such a gruelling process. Not even just gettin= g=20 the copies made and sending them out, and keeping the records, but when you=20 finally get something accepted it=92s another year before you see it again.=20= =20 And I just don=92t get that thrill other people seem to get from seeing thei= r=20 work in print. I love writing. I like doing readings because it=92s immedi= ate=20 and it=92s intimate, but I don=92t get the thrill from publishing. I finall= y get=20 the magazine and open it up and say, =93Oh yeah, there I am.=94 JC: It=92s so anticlimactic, it=92s so over. You don=92t even want to care= , and=20 sometimes someone will say, =93Hey I saw your poem published.=94 And I thin= k=20 =93What poem where?=94 There are poems I don=92t even remember writing. Th= ey=92re=20 lost, they=92re gone. MR: At that point you=92ve taken them out of your =93A Pile=94 and they=92r= e still=20 out there being considered for some magazine somewhere. JC: (laughs) And you say to them, =93HEY! I don=92t even remember writing= =20 those!=94 MR: (laughs) I know, I know. I=92m finding now that there=92s some other=20= goal=20 with all this. JC: What would you say it is? Can you define it? MR: The real joy of writing. That moment where the piece is complete, and=20 you read it over and it=92s good, and it feels good, that is what cannot be=20 duplicated in any other endeavor except another kind of artistic endeavor. =20 You can=92t get that kind of satisfaction anywhere else. I=92m getting into= this=20 idea that you do your work, you have some exchange about it, and see what=20 happens with it. And just letting go of it after it=92s written. My best=20 coups have been people coming to me and asking me to use my work. And when=20 it happens, great, I love when someone asks to use my work, otherwise I=92m=20 more interested in writing and having some exchange. I=92m liking the=20 self-publishing thing, I=92m liking that a lot. It=92s not worth it, climbi= ng=20 the ladder, saying, =93Oh this is my best poem, it should be in the New York= er.=20 This is my second best poem, this should be in the Kenyon Review,=94 you kn= ow. JC: I used to think it was some kind of weird mimicking of the whole ethos=20 of consumer culture, but then the more I thought about it the more I realize= d=20 that it=92s more basic than that, that it=92s about vanity, and this whole n= otion=20 of having to receive attention and create this image of yourself that=92s=20 something separate from who you really are. All because you think you=92re=20 brilliant, or prolific, or have insight. MR: And also this notion that you are in a certain journal because you are=20= a=20 better writer than all these other poets, which is kind of a mean-spirited=20 approach. JC: I=92ve been in both the literary world and the corporate world at the s= ame=20 time. The corporate ethos borders on the pathological. There are people wh= o=20 will do anything to advance their career, which could be eclipsed in a momen= t=20 by the whim of someone else. But they buy into this weird game, and it=92s=20= the=20 same kind of process that=92s happening in the literary world, and basically= =20 for the same reasons. They get swept up by the challenge of accomplishing=20 something that will make themselves look better than the people around them.= =20 And they=92re driven to expend more and more energy in the pursuit of that=20 goal. Which, I suppose if it produces really great literature, is perfectly= =20 valid, but in most cases it doesn=92t seem to. MR: There just doesn=92t seem to be a cause and effect there. The quality= of=20 literature-- JC: --compared to the amount of energy expended in the direction of=20 ambition. MR: Yeah. What=92s really the value of writing? Especially writing poetr= y. =20 Seriously, what is the value of it? I don=92t even know. It=92s something=20 intangible that is there for me. And I feel kind of blessed, because I know= =20 it=92s not there for everybody. Most people aren=92t hungry for it, don=92t= =20 appreciate it, don=92t need it. The value of it for me is that it=92s there= for=20 me, and that I feel connected. It=92s something I can do, with a product at= =20 the end. It encapsulates things. I can use it to different ends personally= .=20 If I have something that=92s bothering me, something I just keep walking=20 around with.... Like, I think I e-mailed you about the thing that happened=20 with my car. I just keep telling people this fucking story, this annoying=20 story and it doesn=92t work to just talk about it. But then I think I=92ll=20= tell=20 someone else and it will get better. But the truth is, if I use that energy= =20 to write, it may not make a great poem, but, hey, it works. Then there are=20 these deeper issues I walk around with that bother me, and at times I=92ve b= een=20 able to take them and make it into a poem, make it into a thing that=92s in=20 some way pleasing. Something I can hold in my hands and put it down, and=20 it=92s done. JC: I have this book downstairs called the Mentor Book of Major American=20 Poets which I shoplifted from the Stamford Museum & Nature Center, in=20 Stamford, Connecticut, when I was twelve. MR: (laughs) I=92LL KEEP AN EYE ON YOU IN MY STORE! JC: (laughs) This kid next door shot a bee-bee into it from back when I=20 stole it in 1965 or 1964. I don=92t even know why I stole it. Probably=20 because 95=A2 was a lot of money if you were twelve years old in 1965. I me= an,=20 35=A2 would buy you a Dr. Pepper and a Ring Ding, you know, so why waste mon= ey=20 on a book, right? So I took this book home, and I opened it up, and it=20 immediately felt like I was reading sacred text. And I remember one of the=20 first things I read was a section of =93The Bridge=94 by Hart Crane. It was= =20 about what was behind his father=92s cannery works, and the hobos back there= =20 with fires at night. And I of course had no idea at that time what was goin= g=20 on with Hart Crane, or modernism. But I could read the 19th century poets,=20 and I was completely drawn to this. Nobody had ever prompted me, and I was=20 certainly not encouraged to do this. Nobody I knew was interested in it, an= d=20 my parents thought it was odd. So it=92s almost as if I was moving by=20 instinct. I was kind of like how the birds are when they need to make the=20 nest. It=92s not a thought thing, it=92s sort of feeling, well okay, I=92ll= do=20 this-- MR: --it=92s there for you. It=92s there for everybody, but it opens up to= you. JC: I had an instant connection to it. There were all these poems I=20 couldn=92t read back then, I didn=92t know what the hell they were about. B= ut=20 then I had a weird experience. One day I was out on the porch reading the=20 book, and these two guys were painting the house, and one of them came down,= =20 and I remember he looked like Trotsky, he had Trotsky=92s beard. So, anyway= ,=20 Trotsky asks, =93What are you reading?=94 And I said it=92s this Mentor Boo= k of=20 Major American Poets. He asked if he could see it. So I gave it to him, an= d=20 he flipped through it, stopped at a page and asked me to read it, which was=20 this poem by Wallace Stevens called =93The Emperor of Ice Cream.=94 So I re= ad=20 the poem, and he asks me what I think it means. I couldn=92t even bluff my=20= way=20 through that, I had absolutely no fucking idea what it meant. It made no=20 sense to me, you know, I could get the rhythm, and I liked the way the words= =20 were put together, but I couldn=92t comprehend it in any other way. I was o= nly=20 reading surfaces. So he said it was about someone dying, and showed me the=20 line, =93if her horny feet protrude, they come / to show how cold she is,=20= and=20 dumb. / let the lamp afix its beam. / the only emperor is the emperor of= =20 ice cream.=94 He was explaining this and pointing out the images, and=20 something clicked inside me. Pretty soon I could read a modern poem, I coul= d=20 read Pound and Williams, and then I was off and running. But most poets get= =20 the poetry bug, and then the bug goes away after awhile, because there=92s n= o=20 feedback. MR: Yeah, you really do need initial insight. You need the key to open up= =20 the language. JC: Maybe that=92s why all those poets are out there grinding out their=20 submissions to a million magazines, because they need that feedback. Maybe=20 that=92s what it=92s about for them, I don=92t know. But most of the poets=20= I knew=20 who were writing in the =9170s and =9180s stopped writing. There=92s a few=20= still=20 around who are really dyed-in-the-wool types, like Gil Ott. There was=20 another Ott, a Tom Ott, and so many other names. I=92d have to drag out tho= se=20 publications being issued back then to remember them all, because almost non= e=20 of those people are writing anymore. MR: I stopped writing for years. And I don=92t even get nervous about it=20 anymore. JC: Really? MR: Yep! In fact I just started writing again after not writing for a=20 couple of years. And it used to get me really nervous because it was tied i= n=20 with that Narcissistic thing where it=92s tied in with your self-religion. =20= You=20 know, =93IT IS I, THE POET!=94 But now I=92m relaxed about it. It=92s almo= st okay=20 when I stop because I wonder what I=92ll be writing when I go there again. =20= And=20 then when it starts it=92s the easiest thing in the world. I mean I=92ve be= en=20 through long periods where it just isn=92t happening. I started at a very=20 young age, and was lucky I was always encouraged. My parents were always=20 behind me. They would read us poems-- JC: (laughs) --OH MY GOD! I=92M TRYING TO IMAGINE MY FATHER! MR: (laughs) Yeah, my parents always really valued it. Like I said=20 though, it used to bother me when I wasn=92t writing, but now when I start=20 again I get to see what=92s been going on inside me while I was waiting. An= d=20 then I think, =93OOO! What=92s going to be NEXT!?=94 JC: When the field lies fallow, and you plant again, you get a better crop= .=20 It=92s part of a process. MR: Yeah, there=92s no such thing as a wasted experience, or wasted time.=20= =20 Everything is percolating. JC: Filed away. MR: Yeah, and it=92s there for you. And you realize after all that time h= as=20 passed, there was actually development going on in your head, and in your=20 life. As you=92re maturing you=92re writing is actually maturing. It=92s n= ever=20 like, here you are at 36, and you haven=92t written since you were 32, and y= ou=20 start again, and you=92re not going to be writing 32 year old poems. JC: You have experiences, then you mature out of the experiences. If=20 somebody you know dies and you=92ve never experienced death, well, it=92s ha= rd to=20 go through it, but you do. And you change, and you may not even be aware=20 that you=92ve changed. And I think that gets into the writing. The funny=20 thing is, when I first started writing poems--which was in the age of the=20 typewriter--I had this method which was to put a sheet a paper into the=20 typewriter, type a draft of the poem, then put a fresh sheet in and retype=20 the poem, even if I was just moving a word or a line. Or even just a piece=20 of punctuation. I would keep rewriting the poem so at the end of a working=20 session there would be a pile of maybe 75 or 80 pieces of paper stacked up.=20= =20 Of course I would be smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. But the funny=20 thing is the poem had to happen my way. I don=92t really see it that way=20 anymore. Somehow I figured out, or it was shown to me that the poem can=20 gestate. All kinds of gestation is going on all the time. I can work on th= e=20 poem, and put it away, and go back, maybe two months, three months later, an= d=20 everything that=92s weak and stupid is GLARING! The changes I need to make=20 somehow seem to suggest themselves, and the process, instead of taking a few= =20 days or a week may need three months or a year. I was never a fast writer=20 anyway, writing a lot of poems. MR: I=92m really quite the opposite. And it=92s gotten more so as I=92ve=20= gotten=20 older. If something doesn=92t come out quick enough it=92s belabored, and i= t=92s=20 no good. =20 JC: Really? MR: Yes. And I revise, but if I can=92t fix it real soon, it=92s stopped.= It=20 just got to be the way I do it. If I do it slowly it doesn=92t happen. I= =92m=20 doing a project with a friend of mine. Both of us hadn=92t been writing for= =20 awhile, just reading. We accompanied one another through our mid-life=20 crises, we met each other right there in the middle of it. We went through=20 all kinds of shit together. He was a CEO of a big ventilator fan company. =20 He hated it, and wanted to be a poet. He was having migraines and all kinds= =20 of stuff. So he changed his life, although he=92s still in business because= he=20 has things he needs to support. It=92s always his challenge to not let that= =20 life overtake his creative life. So anyway, we said okay, we=92ll get toget= her=20 once a week, we=92ll each bring a poem, we=92ll read a poem. We=92re both v= ery=20 remedial about it all because we=92ve both been through these situations whi= ch=20 took us away from writing and we=92re trying to get back into it. When we g= et=20 together we decide on a topic, or an exercise to do, then we get together th= e=20 next week and talk about what we=92ve done. I=92ve found that when I get th= e=20 assignment and think about it, I get very self conscious about it and let it= =20 sit. Then it will get to be Tuesday, and we=92re getting together Wednesday= =20 morning. So it=92s Tuesday evening and I=92ll think =93SHIT I have to do th= is!=94 =20 But I sit down and it comes out. So far they=92re valuable pieces, they=92r= e not=20 just okay, they=92re not just fulfilling an obligation. I=92m loving that I= work=20 this way. If something doesn=92t come out right I have no qualms about lett= ing=20 it go. JC: Toss it. MR: Toss it. Yeah, toss it into a drawer, don=92t toss it into the trash=20 can. But this ends up to be the way that I work, and I like it. JC: It=92s funny because when I first started to do this people would tell= =20 me, =93You really need to write it out in long hand and then type it.=94 Or= ,=20 =93You=92ve GOT to read these, these are the IMPORTANT poets.=94 All these=20= =93you=92ve=20 got to=92s,=94 and =93you musts,=94 and you HAVE to do this, and THIS doesn= =92t matter.=20 There was all this instruction coming down from people, and I don=92t know=20= why=20 they were doing that. I guess maybe to make themselves feel important. =20 There=92s also the motive of wanting to help, but it was not helpful. I thi= nk=20 people need to find their own way, what they=92re comfortable with in writin= g. =20 How they do it, when they do it, the process of the means. MR: It=92s personal, isn=92t it? JC: YES! MR: There=92s the academic mill, which I hate to get into, but it has valu= e,=20 and I think people who go that route are respected, and I don=92t begrudge t= hem=20 that. But it does kind of impersonalize the process. And when you get out=20 of the atmosphere of being in the workshop, you look at the brochures, and=20 it=92s the same people going from camp to camp teaching. And what are they=20 going to say to you? They=92re going to tell you how they do it. JC: Aesthetic bedouins! MR: (laughs) Yeah! My academic path was pretty funny because I started=20 off with Stephen Dunn, who was my first workshop teacher. He=92d hover over= =20 you and tell you what makes a good poem and what makes a bad poem. And he=20 would take your bad poem and show you how to make it into a good poem, or=20 he=92d say =93OH! don=92t try that other thing until you=92re 45!=94 I have= in my=20 notes from that time, when I was 18, an outline of how to write a poem, the=20 beginning, the middle, the end. And then I went to Naropa where everyone wa= s=20 just WHAAAA-CRAZY! A lot of poets there just OPENED things up for me! Ted=20 Berrigan was there, and he was just so funny, and he=92d say =93Just try=20 anything! Just keep writing! If you=92re a poet you should be reading FIVE= =20 BOOKS A DAY! And you should be writing THREE POEMS A DAY!=94 They wanted y= ou=20 to try anything, and if you couldn=92t, there were all these people with lis= ts=20 of things for you to try. And of course it was tied in with this crazy sex=20 and drug thing that was going on, you know, it was certainly NOT dry! JC: The anti-Dunn! MR: (laughs) Yeah, the anti-Dunn! But at the same time to have this=20 skeleton of structure underneath all the Naropa stuff, I don=92t think it=20 harmed me at all. It was kind of a good base to put all this other stuff=20 ontop of. But at the same time, something you could completely depart from.= =20 And that=92s okay to completely depart from it. But I always have a sense f= rom=20 my poetry education about where to break a line, when it ends, you know, it= =92s=20 this underlying sense that I got from those earliest experiences. But I=20 don=92t think most poets are fortunate enough to have had this other Naropa=20 stuff ontop of that. JC: They either go the Dunn route or the Naropa route with nothing in=20 between. MR: Right. JC: I=92ve never studied poetry with somebody. MR: (laughs) I=92ve studied with so many fucking people! I was a whore! JC: (laughs) I think it runs in my family that we=92re stubborn people. =20= And=20 I certainly am, and it=92s not always an admirable character trait. It mean= s=20 you hold onto things you probably shouldn=92t be holding onto. But it can a= lso=20 be valuable. In the beginning I would read people like Dylan Thomas, Roethk= e=20 and Lowell, you know, all these people who were held up as the contemporary=20 gods of poetry. And I wanted to write like them, and I did write like them,= =20 and I thought it was all very accomplished, and thought my immediate rise wa= s=20 imminent. THEN when I STOPPED drinking-- MR: (both of them laughing) --OH YEAH! JC: I threw it all out! And started all over, at 27, 28. MR: Oh, so that was the Great Divide for you? JC: ABSOLUTELY! I tossed it out, and my drinking was so connected to my=20 writing, because I thought if you could write successfully you were allowed=20 to be a drunk. So it was sort of permission to be a drunk. My drinking got= =20 so out of control, but my big crisis came when I said to myself that if I=20 stop drinking I won=92t be able to write. And a voice in my head said =93So= =20 what!=94 I stopped drinking, and after about six months I started writing=20 again. There was gestation going on, some process, and there was finally a=20 level of control that I didn=92t have previously. And the poems were not as= =20 noticeably derived. I kind of felt like I was on my way, but I still needed= =20 to flounder for awhile before I could find the useful models. MR: Floundering is part of the process. JC: ABSOLUTELY! MR: You really have allow yourself as much of that as you need! JC: Right, can=92t fear to flounder! I was like a lot of people though, I= =20 wanted it right away! I wanted masterpieces, and I wanted it NOW! You know= ?=20 But you can=92t squeeze that out of your head, it=92s a whole experience. MR: Not to keep bringing up this age thing, but not only is it amazing to=20 me what happens over the years, but how it=92s so sanctioned. Under 40 you= =92re=20 considered a younger poet. And there seems to be this RACE to be a prodigy!= =20 Right? You get attention when you=92re young, you=92re with these older poe= ts,=20 well, you=92ve never studied with anyone, but, they=92re always looking for=20= the=20 one who will be their prot=E9g=E9. They=92re always looking to see who the=20 interesting person is, and how they=92ll develop. JC: The Byron thing. MR: The Byron thing? JC: Who is going to be the next Byron. MR: Yeah-yeah, that=92s right. So you get that kind of attention, and I w= as=20 a very immature young person. Kind of starry-eyed going into these=20 situations, and I=92d be kind of shy, and get attention from someone who had= =20 stature, and everyone would pay attention to that. And I saw it going on al= l=20 around me with different people. And then it gets to be this race to be a=20 young poet who has made it. JC: Up and coming. MR: Not even up and coming, you=92re there! You know, you=92ve TRANSCENDE= D all=20 that, and you=92re just this gifted thing. Now I=92m just so glad that it h= as=20 more longevity than that. When I look back at how I perceived the people I=20 was hanging out with back then, I realize there was very little truth to it.= =20 It=92s a lot cooler to be where I am now than I thought it would be. JC: I deeply distrusted their motives, the people who were famous and blew= =20 into town, if they were nice to me I just assumed it was really because they= =20 wanted to fuck me. MR: (laughs) Wow, well that=92s nice too! JC: (laughs) Maybe that=92s my hangup. But I didn=92t trust them, though= =20 that=92s not true with everybody. You sort of follow your instincts, like y= ou=20 can tell the real deal, somebody like Allen Ginsberg or Gregory Corso or=20 James Broughton. After awhile I figured out the poetry that was interesting= =20 to me was everything coming out of those avant-garde movements of the 50=92s= =20 and 60=92s that came together in The New American Poetry. At a certain poin= t=20 in time I decided to track down whoever of these poets was still alive, get=20 their books, study them, find out about them, and MEET them if I could! Eve= n=20 send them fan letters, which I did. MR: They=92re all so accessible, aren=92t they? JC: Absolutely. Not snotty, not condescending. I don=92t think anyone I=20 ever encountered from that group was too terribly awful, except Harold Norse= .=20 Not like academic poets who have this force field and barbs around them. MR: (laughs) The Sit At My Feet Poets! JC: (laughs) Yeah, that=92s what they want, they=92re always looking for=20 disciples and imitators, mirrors really. MR: Meanwhile, the others, those guys were kind of raucous, they wanted to=20 have fun, they-- JC: --they were doing their thing! There was no pretense really, in who=20 they were and what they were doing. I went to San Francisco in 1989, three=20 days after an earthquake. I had this grant from the Pennsylvania Arts=20 Council, to be lazy for several months-- MR: --Linh Dinh always called his Pew Fellowship subsidized alcoholism! JC: Ooo! (laughs) MR: (laughs) Yeah, he=92s literary now, he doesn=92t just drink. Anyway,= go=20 ahead, I=92m sorry. JC: (laughs) At this time I was past the point where I had any alcoholism=20 to subsidize, but I=92m sure it would have been that if I=92d still been=20 drinking. So I went to San Francisco because there were people there I=20 wanted to meet. And I pulled whatever strings there were to be pulled to=20 meet them. One of them was Steve Abbot, who was part of this whole group of= =20 people out there writing new narrative fiction. Sort of like LANGUAGE poetr= y=20 before it was a school and had an ideology complete with tanks and=20 battleships. So we met and had lunch at the Cafe Flore. I really admired=20 his first two books, they were brilliant, and couldn=92t WAIT for the third=20 book. But then there was a book of essays, and something else and something= =20 else, and I was awaiting this third book of poetry. And I asked him when hi= s=20 next book of poems was coming out, naive fool I was, I mean, if it was comin= g=20 out it would have come out, right? Maybe I was just making conversation, an= d=20 I didn=92t know it at the time but he was dying. MR: Ooops! JC: Yeah, I know. So he said, =93Well you know how it is, after you=92re=20 thirty the poems slow down and then just stop coming altogether.=94 MR: (laughs) GEEZE! JC: And he was being very straightforward, but he was talking about his ow= n=20 experience. Of course I assumed, out of my own Narcissism, that that was a=20 message for me, and my fork STOPPED in mid-air, enroute to my mouth! MR: (laughs) Looking if he was watching! JC: (laughs) YEAH! And I thought OH FUCK I better RUN HOME and write=20 WHILE I CAN! MR: (laughs) God, that=92s AWFUL! JC: And later I realized maybe that was true for Steve. He did some more=20 good things, and he died a few years later. But everybody has their own=20 method. Maybe the poetry is coming out of how you interact with the world,=20 as well as your own personal history. There=92s a sort of dynamic between=20 those two things. Maybe the poetry is a way of seeing and it rises out of=20 that. I mean I=92m not even really sure, all I know for sure is that it=92s= =20 there, and that it can be really intimidating. About whether or not it=92s=20 working, or whether or not it will still be there. I also think it=92s a gi= ft,=20 like beauty, like time. It=92s on loan, and I=92ve seen people who=92ve abu= sed the=20 power of poetry, only to have it taken away from them. MR: I think anything you get anxiety around, the anxiety is just a=20 constrictor. You talked about drinking and post drinking as your Great=20 Divide. For me it was things in my domestic life, things that were not as=20 sharp a divide for me, but it made me self conscious, and gave me anxiety=20 about what I was writing. JC: You mean after you were out of the marriage? MR: When I got into the marriage. JC: Okay. MR: All of a sudden I wasn=92t this free spirit, I was a wife. And I stil= l=20 wrote, and I think I was fortunate in that my husband never had any interest= =20 in reading what I wrote. JC: You=92re KIDDING!? MR: No, but it was actually a good thing because it freed me to write=20 whatever I wanted without fear of retribution. But now being out of the=20 marriage is a whole other step I=92m taking. You know, it=92s like starting= your=20 life over, and I went through a period of feeling really infantile about it.= =20 JC: You mean once you were out of it? MR: Once I was out of my marriage, which was problematic, obviously, or I=20 would still be in it. So here I am at this whole other juncture, and I have= =20 this thing that I=92ve done since I was little, writing, and I am doing=20 different things with it now. And it=92s kind of exciting to figure that ou= t. =20 We were talking about the anxiety around writing, it=92s something we have t= o=20 breathe in and let it take its course. And come to realize, yeah, it is a=20 gift. This is not something everybody has at their disposal. I=92m just=20 learning to relax about it. It=92s that whole floundering thing again,=20 learning to allow yourself to flounder, come to accept it as part of the=20 craft, part of the process. JC: I think what=92s most intimidating about it, especially if you do it f= or=20 a very long time, it defines who you are. And it=92s really hard to separat= e=20 the doing of it, or the intent to do it, from your identity. I never=20 introduce myself to anyone saying I=92m a poet. And I don=92t like when peo= ple=20 introduce me and say, =93This is Jim Cory, he=92s a poet.=94 MR: (laughs) I know. JC: (laughs) I just wish the whole thing would kind of go away. Because=20 then people start to ask naive questions, and you=92ll even meet people who=20= are=20 mean-spirited and will set out to ambush you for it. But on the other hand,= =20 the act of doing it is inseparable from how I see myself, and who I believe=20 myself to be. Not even in the sense of a compilation of facts about myself=20 in my head, but who I FEEL myself to be! That ability to do that, I took fo= r=20 granted at one time. But now it=92s something I never take for granted,=20 because I=92m aware it could go away, I=92m aware it could die out. The o= nly=20 degree I have is in history, so I=92ve always been interested in literary=20 history. So I=92ve spent time studying how long people wrote. For instance= =20 Whitman really only had twelve productive years of writing, and the poems=20 that would have become the equivalent of Leave of Grass end up as Specimen=20 Days, his memoir. Now on the other hand you get someone like William Carlos= =20 Williams and he=92s banging out these incredible poems literally from 1907 t= o=20 the day he died in 1963. How do you sustain it? I=92m fascinated by that!=20= =20 Somebody needs to write a book about this whole aspect. How is this force=20 generated? Whether it=92s intellectual, moral or spiritual, I don=92t know.= How=20 is it sustained? MR: My daughter, my eight-year-old, has just had this realization that=20 we=92re all going to die. JC: How did she find this out? MR: Oh with kids, it=92s just something that dawns on them. Kids are so=20 morbid. They=92re SO morbid. This idea that you have to protect them from=20 this, and everything has to be pink and blue is just such a transposition of= =20 adult fear put onto kids. You know? They=92re very morbid kind of early, a= nd=20 then it comes to a point when they=92re eight-years-old and they really real= ize=20 all these things can really happen. My daughter sees that I could die, her=20 father could die, she=92s asking me to get an alarm system. She says =93I= =92m=20 afraid when I=92m with you that something might happen to daddy, and when I= =92m=20 with him I=92m afraid something might happen you. And I don=92t want anyone= to=20 die.=94 And here I am, and I have to give her the words of wisdom. I=92m t= rying=20 to help her be with that, and at the same time try to get her to see that=20 it=92s something you need to let go of. Because you don=92t want to spend a= ll=20 this time with this uncomfortable feeling. It=92s a really unpleasant way t= o=20 spend time, and I=92m just trying to repeat that to her. And I=92m trying t= o=20 live that as well. And to relate that to writing, you know, it=92s that=20 question, =93Okay, when=92s it gonna end, oh no, when=92s it gonna end.=94 =20= That=20 constricts it. Who knows when it=92s going to end? It might go away, it mi= ght=20 come back. I=92m really getting to know how to relax with it. JC: I have friends I=92ve known since I was in my late teens, early twenti= es.=20 I have a good friend in Boston named Peggy Malloy. And she is today pretty= =20 much who she was when we were at Penn State. She dresses the same, her=20 interests are the same, she=92s interested in acting, she=92s in plays in Bo= ston,=20 and there=92s this continuum of the twenty-year-old Peggy and the=20 fifty-year-old Peggy. The fifty-year-old is just an older version of the=20 twenty-year-old. It=92s a pleasure to know her, and when we get together it= =92s=20 just like it was when we were in school together. But on the other hand I=20 know people who became very different people, because of quote unquote,=20 responsibility. They have this thing where they say, =93I=92ve got to be an= =20 adult now.=94 And they sort of get carried away with it and they become=20 different, and when you meet them again they=92re so different you despair a= t=20 ever really having the connection again. MR: You were saying this in an e-mail. About what happens to people when=20 they get afraid to play anymore. JC: Unfortunately I think it happens to a lot of people. MR: I guess it does, yeah, I guess it does. It=92s sad. JC: One of the things I=92ve realized is I will probably always be writing= . MR: AH! Knock on wood! You never know! JC: But the reason I say that is I=92ve learned there=92s a lot of differe= nt=20 ways to write. In the beginning I thought there was this way to write a=20 poem, it=92s got stanzas, it=92s got a title, it=92s got a beginning, a midd= le and=20 an end, it has a certain tone, it has rhythmic form. But now my whole=20 definition of that has been completely upended as a result of my reading, my= =20 interaction, so that a poem for me can now be a list of aphorisms. One of=20 them might occur to me while I=92m working out at the gym. Or somebody migh= t=20 say something very clever, and if they don=92t write it down then it becomes= my=20 property, I take it home and work it into my list of aphorisms. Or I might=20 undertake to write a very long poem, which is what I=92ve been doing lately,= =20 doing a poem about the extinction of the Ivory Billed Woodpecker. And=20 nowhere am I in the poem, it=92s all about the woodpecker, it=92s all about=20= their=20 process, their story. The decimation of the forests when the Europeans=20 arrived, and the continued decimation by their descendants is all part of it= .=20 It=92s kind of a meditation on that through one particular, very small, but= =20 somehow significant aspect of it. Or I might choose to write about the=20 architect Louis Sullivan, who designed 190 things, mostly buildings, and my=20 mission in that is to write 190 sections of a poem. And I have to figure ou= t=20 190 things to say about him. So in the beginning the poems were all about t elling the world ALL ABOUT ME! As if ME was anything really. It=92s kind o= f=20 pathetic when I look back on it now, but the energy was there. Somehow or=20 other the corner was turned, and now that doesn=92t seem at all important, i= t=20 almost seems a little bit embarrassing. MR: (laughs) I still write about ME! I can=92t get enough of ME! I=92m=20= SO=20 fascinating! Well, I don=92t know if that=92s true, I guess in a way it is.= The=20 act of writing something down is very transformational, and there=92s someth= ing=20 very mysterious about it. If you write a court portrait of somebody and put= =20 them in a very noble light, it may not make for interesting literature. In=20 the best literature people are not flawless. If you can present their flaws= =20 in a sensitive and intelligent way, then you don=92t just have a bunch of=20 gossip about a bunch of people you know, but you also have a good story. Bu= t=20 then you=92re stuck with this dilemma of having a really good story, but a l= ot=20 of people you know in the poem don=92t look very good. JC: Oh I would never worry about what they thought of the way they were=20 portrayed. MR: No? JC: No. MR: (laughs) That=92s my newfound repression I=92m trying to get passed. JC: The hardest thing for me is to find the verbal equivalent of what I=20 feel. I can, just from long practice, come up with the verbal equivalent of= =20 what I see, touch, taste or smell, you know what I mean? The verbal=20 equivalent of what I feel is a whole other challenge. And it=92s only going= to=20 happen if I=92m open to it happening, or lucky, which is so-called inspirati= on. MR: But you also get to that through the senses. JC: Yeah, through the senses. MR: I think that=92s maybe how you=92re opening to it. JC: That=92s my road I travel, right there. MR: Because otherwise it=92s just abstract. JC: I find poems interesting that mix the two. You=92re in a poem that= =92s=20 going along at a certain pace, clearly has an objective, and then it suddenl= y=20 segues into something else. MR: What=92s that James Wright poem? What=92s it called? Oh god, it=92s=20= be autiful. He=92s sitting in the hammock, he=92s looking at the horse, then h= e=92s=20 looking at something else, and then the last line is, =93I=92ve wasted my li= fe.=94 =20 It=92s this beautiful little poem, and there=92s this eruption of feeling. =20= It=92s=20 this quiet little bomb. JC: There=92s this Zukofsky poem, you probably know it. There=92s a prayi= ng=20 mantis on the subway, and so much is pulled out of the poem that you have to= =20 reimagine the context. So that you can make sense of it, and that=92s the=20 challenge of it. And it can always be done, but sometimes it=92s the hardes= t=20 thing to do. I remember finally getting to the end of it and being amazed b= y=20 the complexity of it, and yet it takes me back to the futility of it, of thi= s=20 totally beautiful and seemingly insignificant insect inside this human=20 contraption, the subway. This ultimately unnecessary and gratuitous thing=20 that moves human beings around. The poem had real power, and it was about a= =20 bug. But he managed to pull it off, and it was long, and it took all these=20 detours. For me that=92s really the kind of poem I aim to write. MR: What=92s the name of that poem? JC: I forget, we could dig it up, I=92ve got it here somewhere. [note: i= t=20 is the last piece in Zukofsky=92s 29 Songs.] MR: I haven=92t read Zukofsky in years. I=92m really looking forward to b= eing=20 in my new store and just having books in front of me, having them in my=20 hands, as part of my work. Because there=92s so much I put off, there=92s s= o=20 much I haven=92t read in many years. That rift, that domestic rift where I= =92m=20 involved with my kids, involved with things going on in the home, yeah,=20 that=92s where I got off the train. JC: I imagine it=92s very difficult to try to concentrate when you=92ve go= t=20 children around. MR: Yeah. It=92s hard to concentrate on things that people who don=92t ha= ve=20 children concentrate on. Although I am getting a whole different view of=20 language because they=92re developing, they=92re learning. And I=92m very=20 fortunate because my children are very verbal, my daughter is extremely=20 fascinated by language. She has a very large and natural vocabulary for her= =20 age. And she has been developing this since she was very young. Like when=20 she was three, I=92d finish reading her a book and she would ask, =93Can you= read=20 it to me backwards now?=94 She=92s always had a fascination with words, in=20 context, but also as objects. She just gets a big kick out of it. So that= =92s=20 kept it fresh for me as well. So, I haven=92t had the time to really read o= n=20 my own. That=92s what makes poems great, because they=92re short, and I can= get=20 a poem in. I may not be able to finish the book, but I can get a poem in. =20 So I don=92t get to concentrate like I did before I had kids around, but now= I=20 get to concentrate on different things. Having kids adds a whole other=20 dimension, but if you don=92t have kids you don=92t really understand. JC: Yeah, I=92m sure. MR: I get to watch them, and travel around the city with them, and they= =92re=20 so interesting and bizarre, and I watch how quickly they pick up on things.=20= =20 And the way they take turns in their thinking, in ways I=92m not privy to,=20 because I=92m there at the front of it, and I=92m the guide. But they=92re=20= so much=20 their own people. They=92re thinking what they think, and they=92re interpr= eting=20 things all the time. It=92s been very enriching. But now that they=92re=20 loosening up some, and are more independent, I can go back to writing and=20 reading. It=92s going to be interesting to see how all this will affect my=20 work. Not just how it=92s affected my writing, but how it=92s affected my=20 outlook that comes through in my writing, which is totally unexpected. You=20 know, it=92s not hanging out, like I used to hang out, it=92s something else= . =20 It=92s not that it=92s not as intense, but then anything is intense if you= =92re=20 going to let it be. JC: When I=92m around children, it=92s like they=92re little aliens to me. MR: (laughs) WELL THEY ARE! JC: (laughs) It=92s because they=92re nowhere to be seen in my life. Lik= e=20 before this last Thanksgiving, this guy came over to give me an estimate on=20 glazing the bathtub. And somehow or other in the course of the conversation= =20 he mentions he=92s 46-years-old, and he says, =93My daughter=92s coming over= for=20 Thanksgiving, and she=92s bringing her children.=94 And I thought, =93Wait=20= a=20 minute, he=92s two years younger than me, and HIS DAUGHTER HAS CHILDREN!=94 MR: It=92s weird isn=92t it? JC: And I thought, =93Oh my god if I=92d been heterosexual I could be a=20 grandfather!=94 But I don=92t FEEL LIKE A GRANDFATHER! MR: I=92m 44-years-old and I have a 4-year-old, which is kind of a weird=20 thing. JC: Later in life, yeah, my mother did it. MR: I like it. JC: Yeah but you knew when to stop, she didn=92t. MR: Really? JC: Yeah, she had eight! MR: AHHHH! Wow, and where are you in that? JC: Right in the middle. The advantage of having eight is that you can=20 order the older ones to take care of the younger ones and then you=92re out=20= of=20 the picture. At least that was my house. I remember this one time walking=20 into a Kresge=92s. Store, in Michigan, in the afternoon, where I was going=20= to=20 go hang out with my friends and smoke cigarettes and drink cokes. I think I= =20 was fifteen or something. And there was my mother, sitting at a table, by=20 herself. I never forgot that image, because in the middle of all that, in=20 the middle of eight children, her house and the rest, in some ways she was=20 very much alone. MR: Yeah, it can get to where it=92s hard to think you exist outside of th= at.=20 I am fortunate because I had my kids later in my life. I had this whole=20 other life before them, and now I get to really share that with them, and at= =20 the same time find space for my writing. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:05:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. P. Craig" Subject: programming language advice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello Poetics List Folks, This is my first post to this list, and it's not about poetics so much as it is about tools for creating a kind of poetry I have been writing. I have been working with and old Macintosh program called Electric Poet to create Markov chain models of source texts. A Markoved text is randomized version of the source that is based upon the statistical likelihood of one word appearing after another in the source text. You can see some of the poetry I've generate using this tool and cut-up methods at 5_trope: http://webdelsol.com/5_trope/14/craig.htm. I need a new software tool because I'm wanting to change the way the Markov algorithm works, to continue my exploration of language and defamiliarization in new ways, and because Electric Poet is no longer supported. I have little money and less time because I'm working on a dissertation. It's hard enough for me to find time to write, but I must because it's the only way to keep me me as I work on this academic thing. So I don't have much to invest in a new programming tool. So I want advice on the choice I've made of Perl to do this thing. Does anyone here have experience creating software tools to work with poetry? It seems there must be from the work I see discussed and posted. And has anyone used Perl for this? I'm also interested in suggestions of alternative tools for this, given my lack of time and cash. This prose is horrible. I've been reading software manuals since I got up, and my brain is very, very patriarchally poetic now. (I'm also a digest reader, rather than continuous postings--perhaps it would be better to discuss this "backchannel" anyway.) JP -- J. P. Craig U. Iowa English Dept. the closer we look at a word the greater the distance from which it stares back -- Karl Kraus (in _My Way_ by Chas. Bernstein) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:45:27 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: e-mail for Christian Bok(insert eyes over o) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Can someone please provide me with e-coordinates for Christian Bok? I've tried the yorku address with no success. thanks, kevin H. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My weeks seem to whiz by. I think I need my chain loosened, or something. Conor Hehir ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:42:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: programming language advice Comments: To: "J. P. Craig" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've used Perl and it works quite well. If you're on a Mac, you can get Perl at the OSX prompt of course. There are any number of books for learning it. Perl of course is free. You can also get various forms of Winperl for Windows (I use Perl in Windows, Linux, Unix, and Mac) - One way to get around the money issue is to subscribe to safari.oreilly.com - which is about $10/month and allows you to access their rather expensive but terrific books on all aspects of Internet and programming. Alan On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, J. P. Craig wrote: > Hello Poetics List Folks, > This is my first post to this list, and it's not about poetics so > much as it is about tools for creating a kind of poetry I have been > writing. I have been working with and old Macintosh program called > Electric Poet to create Markov chain models of source texts. A > Markoved text is randomized version of the source that is based upon > the statistical likelihood of one word appearing after another in the > source text. You can see some of the poetry I've generate using this > tool and cut-up methods at 5_trope: > http://webdelsol.com/5_trope/14/craig.htm. > > I need a new software tool because I'm wanting to change the way the > Markov algorithm works, to continue my exploration of language and > defamiliarization in new ways, and because Electric Poet is no longer > supported. > > I have little money and less time because I'm working on a > dissertation. It's hard enough for me to find time to write, but I > must because it's the only way to keep me me as I work on this > academic thing. So I don't have much to invest in a new programming > tool. So I want advice on the choice I've made of Perl to do this > thing. > > Does anyone here have experience creating software tools to work with > poetry? It seems there must be from the work I see discussed and > posted. And has anyone used Perl for this? I'm also interested in > suggestions of alternative tools for this, given my lack of time and > cash. > > This prose is horrible. I've been reading software manuals since I > got up, and my brain is very, very patriarchally poetic now. (I'm > also a digest reader, rather than continuous postings--perhaps it > would be better to discuss this "backchannel" anyway.) JP > -- > > J. P. Craig > U. Iowa English Dept. > > the closer we look at a word the greater the distance from which it stares back > -- Karl Kraus (in _My Way_ by Chas. Bernstein) > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:36:42 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: komninos zervos Subject: Re: programming language advice In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-68953D57; boundary="=======1A1E2606=======" --=======1A1E2606======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-68953D57; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit check out the webartery list i'm sure they'll have the answers you need komninos http://www.users.bigpond.net/mangolegs At 05:05 AM 21/11/02, you wrote: >Hello Poetics List Folks, >This is my first post to this list, and it's not about poetics so >much as it is about tools for creating a kind of poetry I have been >writing. I have been working with and old Macintosh program called >Electric Poet to create Markov chain models of source texts. A >Markoved text is randomized version of the source that is based upon >the statistical likelihood of one word appearing after another in the >source text. You can see some of the poetry I've generate using this >tool and cut-up methods at 5_trope: >http://webdelsol.com/5_trope/14/craig.htm. > >I need a new software tool because I'm wanting to change the way the >Markov algorithm works, to continue my exploration of language and >defamiliarization in new ways, and because Electric Poet is no longer >supported. > >I have little money and less time because I'm working on a >dissertation. It's hard enough for me to find time to write, but I >must because it's the only way to keep me me as I work on this >academic thing. So I don't have much to invest in a new programming >tool. So I want advice on the choice I've made of Perl to do this >thing. > >Does anyone here have experience creating software tools to work with >poetry? It seems there must be from the work I see discussed and >posted. And has anyone used Perl for this? I'm also interested in >suggestions of alternative tools for this, given my lack of time and >cash. > >This prose is horrible. I've been reading software manuals since I >got up, and my brain is very, very patriarchally poetic now. (I'm >also a digest reader, rather than continuous postings--perhaps it >would be better to discuss this "backchannel" anyway.) JP >-- > >J. P. Craig >U. Iowa English Dept. > >the closer we look at a word the greater the distance from which it stares >back > -- Karl Kraus (in _My Way_ by Chas. Bernstein) > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 15/10/02 --=======1A1E2606======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-68953D57 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 15/10/02 --=======1A1E2606=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:04:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick LoLordo Subject: Re: Rexroth and "lineage" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark--No, I agree with you that Spicer is Cali-centric: you're making me want to look at the Vancouver lectures, now, though, to see how that "Californian" regionality translated across national borders.... I guess the difference I was after is tricky: the felt sense that one could, so to speak, recreate Manhattan from O'Hara's poetry ("Joyce's Dublin") is the classic example here)--a sense I don't get from Spicer's work re. the Bay area. As for "shared local values," I think maybe you misunderstood me here: are such values not implied by the restrictions on circulation Spicer sought to establish? In other words, these locally shared values would be explicitly or implicitly oppositional values, vis a vis larger entities--& my use of the "cosmopolitan" [not a term without baggage of course] was meant to suggest a poetry which equally dissented from the national and the universal claim (for which your invocation of Billy Collins will do very well) but that did so without claiming the ground of the local.... Nick -- Vincent Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor Department of English University of Nevada-Las Vegas Las Vegas, NV 89154 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:45:29 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: bowering on collins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT i wish i could think of a clever thing to introduce this: Balladry on the bottle and other novel ideas Canada's chief bard has his own notions, including, perhaps, poetry on wine labels By ERIN ANDERSSEN Tuesday, November 19, 2002 – Print Edition, Page A3 OTTAWA -- Some things you should know about Canada's new chief bard: George Bowering wants to see poetry on wine bottles. He'd like to ditch our "embarrassing" national anthem, which he says is sexist, racist, illogical and grammatically incorrect. He'd rather not pen sonnets to our troops in Iraq, though he'll serve as war scribe if it comes to that. And while he's a fan of the current Prime Minister -- he thinks Paul Martin, the heir-apparent, is masquerading as a Liberal -- the country's first parliamentary poet laureate vows he won't be rhyming on anyone's command. As if to emphasize this point, in a typical moment of jest and with a television crew filming his first official day on the job, he mimes a pee on Parliament's front lawn. If he is to play at court jester (he jokes about getting a pointed hat with bells), the two-time winner of the Governor-General's Award has begun his term without a sliver of awe for the trappings and titles that rule Ottawa. This includes his own, though he does note that the Prime Minister has yet to call with his congratulations. "I'm a novelty act," he says over coffee on his first foray into the parliamentary cafeteria. "I'm the equivalent of the guy in New Brunswick who grows the 200-pound pumpkin." While he has a few "half-baked" ideas, Mr. Bowering hasn't quite figured out what to do with his new job, for which he is paid $22,000 a year including travel expenses. The 66-year-old British Columbian put his own name forward; it was chosen from a final list of three by the Speakers of the Senate and the House of Commons. His job description is vague -- he may write poetry, he may hold readings -- but since he is the first, the post is his to define. He is hard to pin down in an interview because he is constantly tossing out saucy one-liners. For his first official luncheon, he wonders whether he can bum a "free cigarette" from his host. Slogging though the slush to breakfast, he grumbles, "Why couldn't I be the P.L. for Barbados?" But don't be deceived. With approximately 50 books -- including an irreverent take on Canada's prime ministers -- and a long tenure at British Columbia's Simon Fraser University behind him, he's no lightweight. He has strong opinions. He's for the Kyoto Protocol and against the war on Iraq. He considers U.S.America -- his term -- "bullies who want to run the world." He admires Prime Minister Jean Chrétien's tenacity, and disses Mr. Martin for disloyalty. "When it comes to the current travails," he says firmly of the Prime Minister, "I am on his side." It bears noting that the poet laureate he most admires in the United States is not his national counterpart, Billy Collins, who is trying to get poetry read in schools. It is Amiri Baraka in New Jersey, whom the state politicians want fired for writing a controversial poem about Sept. 11, in which he is accused of being anti-Semitic. Mr. Bowering has all the books of the latter, and none of the former. Of Mr. Collins, he is dismissive; "I get the impression he could write about someone dropping a chicken on the sidewalk." Of Mr. Baraka, he says he suspects most critics haven't even read the work in question. In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good poems tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." So he will not be writing "inferior poetry" just because something needs commemorating. And he plans to steer away from poking fun at politicians, because it would just be too easy. It may be a bit of a wait before his first effort. "There's a difference between duty and inspiration. Poets sometimes sit a long time, waiting for something to happen." He is most respectful of his muse; the audience comes second. While he's waiting for inspiration, he will be exploring ideas. He is seriously pondering a campaign to put poetry on wine labels, though there may be some self-interest there. He pointedly observes how the British poet laureate is not only given immunity from parking tickets but also receives, each year, a free barrel of red wine. "So far my nation has not even given me a glass of Niagara plonk. I'm going to look into that." And don't even get him started on the national anthem. While he won't confirm an official plan to rewrite it, he says he would certainly welcome a national debate on the subject. "Can you 'command' love?" he demands, when asked to list some of the 12 things he sees as wrong with it. "Can you stand 'from' somewhere?" Today, Mr. Bowering will get the paperwork cleared, the tour of the Hill covered and will lunch with the Speakers of the Senate and the House of Commons, who gave him the job. He will attend Rideau Hall tomorrow, where a dear friend, Roy Miki, is receiving the Governor-General's Award for poetry -- and then he heads home to Vancouver. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good > poems > tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." george did you really say that? mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:48:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII For god's sake why don't we all just pack up and move to Canada. A country with the good sense to pick a laureate who nominated himself. If Canada really were in Barbados I'd be there on the next plane. 80 degrees in sunny California (we don't need no stinking ozone), Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:17:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Rosenberg Subject: Re: programming language advice Comments: cc: "J. P. Craig" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --On Wednesday, November 20, 2002 1:05 PM -0600 "J. P. Craig" wrote: > Does anyone here have experience creating software tools to work with > poetry? It seems there must be from the work I see discussed and > posted. And has anyone used Perl for this? I'm also interested in > suggestions of alternative tools for this, given my lack of time and > cash. This is a difficult and highly individual decision. The most popular medium for "new media poetry" or whatever we're calling this week seems to be Flash, but that costs money and is not a good choice for what you want. I would recommend you check out Squeak, www.squeak.org. I've been working with this for about a year, and am simply astonished at how close I've been able to get toward building the authoring environment I've always dreamed of in bits and pieces. Almost *any* programming language will let you make algorithms, but at some stage you will need an interface. Squeak is free and open source. Personally, I find its graphics paradigm, called Morphic, to be exactly what I've been looking for for years. I can hardly talk about it without -- well -- squeaking! --- Jim Rosenberg http://www.well.com/user/jer/ WELL: jer Internet: jr@amanue.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "R. Drake" Subject: Re: programming language advice Comments: cc: john-craig@uiowa.edu In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit john, you might find some other tools at the TextWorx Toolshed: http://www.burningpress.org/toolbox/index.html there's at lease one additional Markov-based program for mac. if you're up for rolling yr own, Perl is a good choice--its made for text manipulation. if you already know another programming language, you might look at Python as an alternative--syntax is a little more human-readable. asever, luigi-bob drake, ed. burning press on 11/20/02 2:05 PM, J. P. Craig at john-craig@UIOWA.EDU wrote: > Hello Poetics List Folks, > This is my first post to this list, and it's not about poetics so > much as it is about tools for creating a kind of poetry I have been > writing. I have been working with and old Macintosh program called > Electric Poet to create Markov chain models of source texts. A > Markoved text is randomized version of the source that is based upon > the statistical likelihood of one word appearing after another in the > source text. You can see some of the poetry I've generate using this > tool and cut-up methods at 5_trope: > http://webdelsol.com/5_trope/14/craig.htm. > > I need a new software tool because I'm wanting to change the way the > Markov algorithm works, to continue my exploration of language and > defamiliarization in new ways, and because Electric Poet is no longer > supported. > > I have little money and less time because I'm working on a > dissertation. It's hard enough for me to find time to write, but I > must because it's the only way to keep me me as I work on this > academic thing. So I don't have much to invest in a new programming > tool. So I want advice on the choice I've made of Perl to do this > thing. > > Does anyone here have experience creating software tools to work with > poetry? It seems there must be from the work I see discussed and > posted. And has anyone used Perl for this? I'm also interested in > suggestions of alternative tools for this, given my lack of time and > cash. > > This prose is horrible. I've been reading software manuals since I > got up, and my brain is very, very patriarchally poetic now. (I'm > also a digest reader, rather than continuous postings--perhaps it > would be better to discuss this "backchannel" anyway.) JP > -- > > J. P. Craig > U. Iowa English Dept. > > the closer we look at a word the greater the distance from which it stares > back > -- Karl Kraus (in _My Way_ by Chas. Bernstein) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Public speech Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I was impressed by what George Bowering did when the opportunity presented itself, and equally so by the fact that a journalist in Canada would be free to report it. On the opposite hand, we have the reportage on Baraka and even the notice of Bernstein's reading in D.C., which sink poetry to dumbed-down critical lows as we lockstep into the next war. We should all move to Canada and say what we think of the current situation, because obviously it can't be done here. If a poet could speak, we wouldn't understand him/her--due to the way the reception has been constructed. BW ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:49:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: on collins & canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii here here barrett & damian! i'm almost tempted to relocate myself=== i had the misfortune of meeting mr billy collins once...my alma mater kent state brought him in for a glowing performance (i hear they had creeley there last year, which must have been a tremendous improvement)---i was part of a grad workshop at the time, & one of their little scolarship winners, so i had to be brought out for mr collins' rousing reading...i was tremendously altered at the time (it being a very different time than now), & had spent most of the day skipping classes & reading ted berrigan---so i asked mr collins his opinion of berrigan---he chuckled and said something like, huh, yeah, write poems on pepsi and dexedrine===which i thought a bit dismissive... (i met allen ginsberg once too...he was quite kind, and great to talk to...he wanted me to read more smart---) bliss l ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:14:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Whyte Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <524C7EB6-FCF0-11D6-8DBB-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What exactly does he mean by Chretien's "tenacity"? Perhaps in quietly dragging out his term in office? Meanwhile we had bill C-36 rammed through in a frenzy of destruction of civil liberties USA-style; Chretien today pledged to send Canadian troops to war with Iraq if need be; Canadian citizens born in countries on US hit-lists are being detained at the US border to our government's acquiescence -- You guys down south managed both to write the Federalist Papers and render them void; we do it smaller up here, toeing your line. Drink up! Ryan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:28:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: poems on Pepsi and dexedrine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii llacook@YAHOO.COM wrote: > so i asked mr collins his opinion of berrigan---he chuckled and said something like, huh, yeah, write poems on pepsi and dexedrine===which i thought a bit dismissive... ....................................................... But Collins may have had a point. Pepsi has caffeine in it, which is addictive. It's part of a group of stimulants called xanthines. The negative effects of Pepsi can make you anxious excitable restless dizzy irritable unable to concentrate gastrointestinal (GI) aches headaches that don't seem to go away trouble with sleeping (http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1485.html) Since caffeine is a diuretic, Pepsi causes calcium loss in the urine, so Pepsi can lead to osteoporosis. "Studies have also shown that caffeine [Pepsi] decreases reaction time to both visual and auditory stimuli . . . [Pepsi] can diminish performance of manual tasks that involve delicate muscular coordination and accurate timing." (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_effects.shtml) Pepsi can reduce the cerebral flow of oxygen to the brain by as much as 30%, leading to memory problems. (http://www.flp-aloevera.co.uk/avoid_caffeine.htm) Caffeine enters the breast milk. Although it appears in only small amounts, infants do not excrete caffeine efficiently. So, women drinking Pepsi can make their babies irritable and restless. (http://www.extension.iastate.edu/nutrition/01feb16.html) Pepsi was invented by Caleb Bradham in 1898, and the "Birthplace of Pepsi" store is maintained on the site of the original pharmacy where Bradham discovered the formula, in New Bern, North Carolina. [TO SEE A PHOTOGRAPH OF CALEB BRADHAM, GO TO http://www.pepsistore.com/images/bradham.jpg] Pepsi-Cola Company also owns a deceptively clear beverage, Mountain Dew, which nonetheless contains caffeine. Sounds like Billy Collins may have been on a carbonated water such as Perrier when he has talking to you, or even a seltzer such as Schweppe's, and aspirin. (The tingly bubbliness of carbonation or seltzer could have induced that "chuckling"-like response you noted in him, Lewis.) llacook@YAHOO.COM wrote: > met allen ginsberg once too...he was quite kind, and great to talk to.. One of his kukicha and bee pollen days, then. Definitely sounds like Ginsberg on kukicha and bee pollen. Billy Collins' agent is the Stephen Barclay Agency (which also manages Seamus Heaney, Robert Pinsky, W.S. Merwin, Tony Kushner, David Sedaris, Amy Tan, and others). [TO SEE A PHOTOGRAPH OF BILLY COLLINS, GO TO http://www.barclayagency.com/graphics/authors/collins.jpg] __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:46:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Ayre Subject: Re: programming language advice Comments: cc: john-craig@UIOWA.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John... > Does anyone here have experience creating software tools to work with > poetry? It seems there must be from the work I see discussed and > posted. And has anyone used Perl for this? I'm also interested in > suggestions of alternative tools for this, given my lack of time and > cash. If you are looking for a markov generator for perl, there is one implementation by Ron Starr which can be found here: http://www.eskimo.com/~rstarr/poormfa/poemtool.html Also, the burning deck site has a tools page with numerous programs for mac and pc: http://www.burningpress.org/toolbox/ There is also the computer generated writing page which is somewhat out of date: http://www.evolutionzone.com/kulturezone/c-g.writing/index_body.html A decent book, (and one of very few on the topic), is Charles O. Hartman's 'Virtual Muse'... a quick read. I had put together a list of links to PERL modules which could be used in computer generated writing, you may find these useful (the module list is at the end of the email). I'm currently writingin a Java application called the GTR Language Workebench, which is an application for the systematic generation, analysis and transformation of natural language texts. It is analagous to a Photoshop for words, consisting of various 'filters' or transformers which you can combine in new ways to make more complex transformational processes. It's still in a beta version, but looking at a release in the summer. I'll be posting an annoucement to the poetics list. Also, if you are interested in this topic in general, you may find that the UBUWEB listserv of interest. If you go to the http://groups.yahoo.com site and look for ubuweb... PERL Modules Lingua::Wordnet Perl extension for accessing and manipulating Wordnet databases. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/DBRIAN/Lingua-Wordnet0.73/Wordnet.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-Wordnet Lingua::LinkParser Perl module implementing the Link Grammar Parser by Sleator, Temperley and Lafferty at CMU. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/DBRIAN/Lingua-LinkParser1.05/LinkParser.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-LinkParser Lingua::EN::Gender Inflect pronouns for gender details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/GOSSAMER/Lingua-EN-Gender-0.02/lib/Lingua/EN/Gend er.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Gender Lingua::EN::Fathom Readability and general measurements of English text (num words/sentends/text lines etc..) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/KIMRYAN/Lingua-EN-Fathom-1.06/Fathom.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Fathom Lingua::EN::Infinitive Determine the infinitive form of a conjugated word details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/RSAVAGE/Lingua-EN-Infinitive-1.04/Infinitive.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Infinitive Lingua::EN::Keywords Automatically extracts keywords from text details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/SIMON/Lingua-EN-Keywords-0.01/Keywords.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Keywords Lingua::EN::Nickname Genealogical nickname matching (Liz=Beth) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/BRIANL/Lingua-EN-Nickname-1.1/Nickname.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Nickname Lingua::EN::Sentence Module for splitting text into sentences. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/SHLOMOY/Lingua-EN-Sentence-0.23/lib/Lingua/EN/Sen tence.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Sentence Lingua::EN::Summarize A simple tool for summarizing bodies of English text. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/FIMM/Lingua-EN-Summarize-0.2/Summarize.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Summarize Lingua::EN::Syllable Routine for estimating syllable count in words details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/GREGFAST/Lingua-EN-Syllable-0.251/Syllable.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-EN-Syllable Lingua::Rhyme MySQL-based rhyme-lookups. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/LGODDARD/Lingua-Rhyme-0.07/Rhyme.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-Rhyme Lingua::Stem Stemming of words details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/SNOWHARE/Lingua-Stem-0.50/lib/Lingua/Stem.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-Stem Lingua::Syllable Attempt to return number of syllables in a word details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/LGODDARD/Lingua-Syllable-0.03/Syllable.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-Syllable Lingua::Translate Translate text from one language to another (via Altavista) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/SAMV/Lingua-Translate-0.02/lib/Lingua/Translate.p m download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Lingua-Translate Class::MakeMethods::Template::TextBuilder Basic text substitutions (great for text generation !) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/EVO/Class-MakeMethods-1.000016/MakeMethods/Templa te/TextBuilder.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Class-MakeMethods-Template DBIx::FullTextSearch Indexing documents with MySQL as storage (make your own search engine !) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/TJMATHER/DBIx-FullTextSearch-0.61/lib/DBIx/FullTe xtSearch.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=DBIx-TextIndex HTML::FromText Mark up text as HTML details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/GDR/HTML-FromText-1.005/FromText.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=HTML-FromText HTML::FormatText Format HTML as text details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/GAAS/HTML-Format-1.23/lib/HTML/FormatText.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=HTML-Format Text::Autoformat Automatic and manual text wrapping and reformating formatting details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/DCONWAY/Text-Autoformat-1.04/lib/Text/Autoformat. pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Autoformat Text::Banner Create text resembling Unix 'banner' command (great for birthday parties !) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/LORY/Text-Banner-1.00/Banner.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Banner Text::Bastardize A corruptor of innocent text ( great for corporate reports !?!? ) detatils : http://search.cpan.org/doc/AYRNIEU/Text-Bastardize-0.06/Bastardize.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Bastardize Text::Document A text document subject to statistical analysis (has document similarity functions !) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/ASPINELLI/Text-Document-1.07/Document.pod download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Document Text::DoubleMetaphone Phonetic encoding of words. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/MAURICE/Text-DoubleMetaphone-0.05/DoubleMetaphone .pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-DoubleMetaphone Text::Metaphone A modern soundex. Phonetic encoding of words. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/MSCHWERN/Text-Metaphone-1.96/Metaphone.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Metaphone Text::Echelon Get random Echelon related words. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/IDORU/Text-Echelon-0.02/Echelon.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Echelon Text::Flowchart ASCII Flowchart maker (very cool....) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/JIMT/Text-Flowchart-1.00/Flowchart.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Flowchart Text::GenderFromName Guess the gender of a "Christian" first name. details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/JONO/Text-GenderFromName-0.2/GenderFromName/READM E download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-GenderFromName Text::Graphics A text graphics rendering toolkit (ASCII graphics... !) details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/SFARRELL/Text-Graphics-1.0001/lib/Text/Graphics.p m download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Graphics Text::Munge::Vowels Removes vowels from words phrases details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/RRWO/Text-Munge-Vowels-0.5.1/Vowels.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Munge-Vowels Text::Soundex Implementation of the Soundex Algorithm as Described by Knuth details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/MARKM/Text-Soundex-2.20/Soundex.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Text-Soundex Text::English Porter's stemming algorithm details : http://search.cpan.org/doc/ULPFR/perlindex-1.200/lib/Text/English.pm download : http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=perlindex ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:59:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <524C7EB6-FCF0-11D6-8DBB-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 20 November mIEKAL aND wrote: >> In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good >>poems >> tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." > george did you really say that? ------ I sure hope you did, George, it's truly brilliant and pithy. Who, after all, would want poems to make things simpler than they are. President Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. ======================================= "If you write about what you know, you will keep on writing the same thing, and you will never know any more than you do now." George Bowering. A Magpie Life. ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:02:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Identity Theft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Identity Theft Name: Jonathan Richards-Joan Race: Native American Age: 37 Birthdate: 4/19/83 Gender: Female Sexual Preference: Hair: Blond Eyes: Black Weight: 100 Height: 6' 2" Occupation: On-board Surgeon Address: 324 Bloomfield, Paris, Address: France 324 Language Proficiency: German, English, Language Japanese Proficiency: Favorite Word: Sulak Visa Card: 3876 Visa 3124 Card: 9878 3876 2081 3124 URL: http://www.albron.gov/~/smythe Email: jointer@sg.oita.com Telephone: 01-37-439-610-457 Yearly Salary: 245,400 Rupee Disabilities: Partial Deafness Veteran: Belgian-Afghani War (first Veteran: phase) Belgian-Afghani Married: No Children: Yes, three: Susan, 21; Susan, Tom, 21; 4; Tom, Cynthia, 4; 35Cynthia, Allergies: Juniper, Civet Religion: Shinto (generally) Criminal once Record: stole once a caught fast speeding. car stole I a didn't fast Criminal car Record: (but once I caught didn't speeding. get late caught, at it night was and late I at got night away) and got caught, away)it Hobbies: Hacking, Birding Quote: Quote: Karl Karl Kraus Kraus "Plagiarism "Plagiarism the the beginning." beginning." Car: Hyundai Author: Bharati Favorite (wrote Author: Natyasastra) (wrote Movie: Movie: The The Secret Secret of of Vladimir Vladimir Nijinski Nijinski Artist: Juan Davila Country: Romania (my Favorite own!) Country: Current Worth: $ 16,2500. Sexually Active: Yes Activity: Fellatio Interesting a Anecdote: fast there Interesting this once high-speed stole chase and on Cops Cops and everything Computers: yes, one Operating system: Amiga Operating (the system: new Amiga one) (the Automobiles: None Rocket (but Skooter) a Sports: Raquetball, Sports: Jailai Raquetball, (they're Jailai almost (they're same!) the Education: Phd. (geology, Education: U. Phd. Moscow, (geology, 1950) U. Any be questions asked: you no, think this should has be been asked: terrific, no, thank has questions been you terrific, think thank should === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:55:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: poems on Pepsi and dexedrine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Jeffrey Jullich" wrote > Billy Collins' agent is the Stephen Barclay Agency > (which also manages Seamus Heaney, Robert Pinsky, W.S. > Merwin, Tony Kushner, David Sedaris, Amy Tan, and > others). I got to talk to Stephan Barclay a few years ago. He is a very nice LA kind of agent. Odd for poets and Noble Prize promoter. I was trying to book a speaker for our college and he called back when I was in the shower. I jumped out thinking it was someone else I was expecting to call. I asked if he could call back as I was dripping wet just out of the shower. He seemed amused and kept right on talking. Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k2 __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) Geoffrey Gatza Automation Corp http://BlazeVOX.da.ru http://gatza.da.ru ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:12:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: programming language advice In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is a great list of links that you and the others have been providing, DA! But do any of these text-based transformation programs deal with phonemes, say, as opposed to letters and words? After all, poetry is organized SOUND, not pictographs! I have experimented with creating texts using strict patterns of vowel phonemes as permutational tone-rows a la serial music, and would love to do something like that more extensively with the aid of an algorithm. Any chance that something like this already exists or allows me to come close? mwp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:36:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rathmann Subject: Re: Public speech / Heather Fuller In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021120214330.00b18518@mail.wayne.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BW focuses on media misrepresentation, but isn't there a more essential question, to wit: What is poetry able to communicate about political life that isn't already present among the contending points of view? We have already been served large helpings of satire and clownishness, and no minds have been changed. Why should a reader looking for guidance on U.S. foreign policy turn to poetry instead of the NY Times editorial pages (or to any of the websites that Patrick Herron has been citing)? I think there are ways to answer these questions. Take the issue of homelessness. This has been, I think, one of the most common topics chosen by poets who wish to engage social questions: maybe because it manifests itself on an individual (that is, lyric) scale. Heather Fuller writes about homelessness, with some success, in Dovecote (the dovecote, one notes, is a figure for communal shelter). I think the value of these lines, from "Trip Set," derives from the psychological honesty of the speaker and, just as importantly, the humor and weirdness of some of the writing. Rather than merely show off the poet's personal charm or daffiness, this weirdness has the scent of another person's actual life: follow him he returned from the institution with a lisp he said it was a good place good place for a letter bomb I sent vitamins and postcards working in the vatican of accountability cash comes into my hands and I find excuses eventually the eviction of squatters after the effigy of flags it's easier to cry for the anonymous neighborhood burning down an action in missing Honesty (the speaker's admission that, when she gets a little cash, she finds excuses to keep it for herslf) and authenticity (the ex-mental patient's lisp -- how strange) embodied in the speech of our time ("good place for a letter bomb"): these things are at home on lyric terrain. The lines do not, I think, offer much in the way of social analysis, but then that may be beside the point. Perhaps lyric candor and a spirit of inquiry into other people's lives ("follow him...") are enough. Andy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:54:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: tweaker Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tweaker lf-LFstah exeeappr tweaker pstone lf-LFstah eacArchih exeeappr tweaker cesbandw pstone lf-LFstah wander eacArchih exeeappr tweaker foritspe cesbandw pstone lf-LFstah nha320X24 wander eacArchih exeeappr rsahevar foritspe cesbandw pstone tie nha320X24 wander eacArchih warerore rsahevar foritspe cesbandw mmummedian tie nha320X24 wander tiollychn warerore rsahevar foritspe ushpartly-nitmathemy mmummedian tie nha320X24 vegetables tiollychn warerore rsahevar nstpricesr ushpartly-nitmathemy mmummedian tie genhewire vegetables tiollychn warerore Csupwar nstpricesr ushpartly-nitmathemy mmummedian aprwhich genhewire vegetables tiollychn ang7CFRu Csupwar nstpricesr ushpartly-nitmathemy ndsandcl aprwhich genhewire vegetables fortechn ang7CFRu Csupwar nstpricesr -reepackq ndsandcl aprwhich genhewire fthnalsa fortechn ang7CFRu Csupwar resalana -reepackq ndsandcl aprwhich -inrs15 fthnalsa fortechn ang7CFRu runlocate resalana -reepackq ndsandcl mernother -inrs15 fthnalsa fortechn copeechte runlocate resalana -reepackq apritin mernother -inrs15 fthnalsa ersstanda copeechte runlocate resalana fmiearTe apritin mernother -inrs15 tstructu ersstanda copeechte runlocate theman fmiearTe apritin mernother woo tstructu ersstanda copeechte tabhargeal theman fmiearTe apritin mstdtrav woo tstructu ersstanda themental tabhargeal theman fmiearTe withdraw mstdtrav woo tstructu topdsheeti themental tabhargeal theman for00Base withdraw mstdtrav woo pgnific topdsheeti themental tabhargeal aFwhic for00Base withdraw mstdtrav lfEu pgnific topdsheeti themental -RA00BaseM-aliludetb aFwhic for00Base withdraw tune lfEu pgnific topdsheeti andbettera -RA00BaseM-aliludetb aFwhic for00Base efratthe tune lfEu pgnific very offricatib andbettera -RA00BaseM-aliludetb aFwhic ionywit efratthe tune lfEu stidatetn very offricatib andbettera -RA00BaseM-aliludetb wedding ionywit efratthe tune el-erfacee stidatetn very offricatib andbettera vindication wedding ionywit efratthe menllerht el-erfacee stidatetn very offricatib ggeuments-rcegways vindication wedding ionywit prosuetoc menllerht el-erfacee stidatetn toledpr ggeuments-rcegways vindication wedding anddint prosuetoc menllerht el-erfacee well-pionca toledpr ggeuments-rcegways vindication ingrneta anddint prosuetoc menllerht bitstored-ngehisars well-pionca toledpr ggeuments-rcegways omprmersa ingrneta anddint prosuetoc wrapping-sontopro bitstored-ngehisars well-pionca toledpr Ewimplitu omprmersa ingrneta anddint 250tyof wrapping-sontopro bitstored-ngehisars well-pionca inshattht Ewimplitu omprmersa ingrneta orprtzT 250tyof wrapping-sontopro bitstored-ngehisars nieeratesn inshattht Ewimplitu omprmersa xecor2u orprtzT 250tyof wrapping-sontopro pueth nieeratesn inshattht Ewimplitu timntf\ xecor2u orprtzT 250tyof waves pueth nieeratesn inshattht viewpoint timntf\ xecor2u orprtzT ludcontroe waves pueth nieeratesn sthworkp viewpoint timntf\ xecor2u eldthat ludcontroe waves pueth cursplus sthworkp viewpoint timntf\ sscessh eldthat ludcontroe waves anListin cursplus sthworkp viewpoint ertrICse sscessh eldthat ludcontroe herdslow anListin cursplus sthworkp turn tdatively ertrICse sscessh eldthat thtonBu herdslow anListin cursplus soothcon turn tdatively ertrICse sscessh whithout thtonBu herdslow anListin proadthev soothcon turn tdatively ertrICse onsable whithout thtonBu herdslow PCIasMi proadthev soothcon turn tdatively nddne/Eth onsable whithout thtonBu intorwor PCIasMi proadthev soothcon achtradit nddne/Eth onsable whithout a1owsUS intorwor PCIasMi proadthev whose achtradit nddne/Eth onsable mplgoodre a1owsUS intorwor PCIasMi DPTfileR whose achtradit nddne/Eth nstan80r mplgoodre a1owsUS intorwor eamiftiss DPTfileR whose achtradit iceatert nstan80r mplgoodre a1owsUS mencondLt eamiftiss DPTfileR whose yprisolat iceatert nstan80r mplgoodre GAexcite mencondLt eamiftiss DPTfileR 196g-clos yprisolat iceatert nstan80r atWormor GAexcite mencondLt eamiftiss tAnalo 196g-clos yprisolat iceatert chafigurel atWormor GAexcite mencondLt torroachs tAnalo 196g-clos yprisolat ess999 chafigurel atWormor GAexcite --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/14/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:36:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <524C7EB6-FCF0-11D6-8DBB-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >>In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good >>poems >>tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." > > >george did you really say that? Something pretty close to that. -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:51:39 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on collins & canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this Billy Collins so bad or is it that basically we dont like his poetry philosophically: its a knd of divide we find here in New Zealand also. And there are good and bad in "both camps" ....I didnt know him from a bar of soap but he was lauded here some months abck at a literary festival or something ...but there are reasons for that. The "official" verse gets more attention for various political phiosophical and finacial reasons (hence people in general know about Ted Hughes but not Ron Silliman [(although in the Auck Uni thanks somewhat to Roger Horrocks, Wystan Curnow, Murray Edmond and Michelle Leggott: a lot of fascinating poetry as has been introduced here and they dont conpletely rule out the Billy Collins of this earth to a man or a woman I dont think...(?))] or even Creeley (although Creeley would be better known)..now I can read Hughes, Heaney, who else...many of the "official" poets but think that the most interesting are from "the other side" eg the Black Mountain, the various NY Schools, the Naropa, Spicer and the West coast writers and so on, Chris Stroffolino (!), the Language Poets, some of the Vispos and many on this list if I get time, but Collins, Angelou, Rita Dove etc dont interest me so much...but "outside the outside" there are a lot of fascinating writing, that, while it "doesnt interest me so much" it doesnt mean I dismiss it as 'bad" and so on...I dont like Rod Mckuen though for example, and am not that enthusiastic about cummings, although I see his importance and in New Zealand the "powers that be" often dont see (or sometimes dont want to see) other than people who have won awards and so on: which somewhat I can understand...I understand it if the general public were to be bemused by the contempt for Billy Collins ....its different if a poet such as Collins takes a definite stance against aything outside his ken so to speak: as the Australian poets who did the Ern Malley hoax did...they hated, with an almost lethal hate, "modernism" as tey called it ... but if a poet such as Collins just does his thing, as they say, and is open to ideas: after all he is what he is, obviously he must have someting going for him, no (?)...the problem is that some really incredible poets get overlooked because eg Les Murray writes (a very good as it happens) poem about a man crying: but Les Murray and probably Collins ultimately have nothing new to add to the debate so to speak: contrast the language poets including Ron Silliman and all those in In The American Tree and also Post Modern American Poets and others around (you know who you are!) and also in NZ some poets such as myself !! who are overlooked and sadly neglected geniuses like Schubert...(cough cough)...or unneglected like Goethe "meer Licht! meer Licht!" (not that I can read German or have read any Goethe to my shame ) ...but all is not well in the Langpo and associated camps...there are some unresolved contradictions...but that aside (at least that means hopefully the debate is continuing) (and know that we have to explicate what it is we dont like about Collins's poetry etc and the politico social financial factors etc etc operating: we cant just say "he's bad" (we can but that doesnt help those people who are kind of thinking about these matters, or are intelligent laymen, students at a certain level, people just encountering poetry etc )...Ron Silliman's Blog and eg Jacket look (I havent looked much but what I have seen looks good) like writings and places that are developing.....whereas one feels somewhow - maybe it doesnt matter - that such as Collins (brilliant as he may be) are "going nowhere".... Billy Collins might have read "about" Berrigan (and his usage of amphetamines etc and pepsi) just as people looking in to "us" might see us talking about Mr Collins and his nice eyes and so on...and not his poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philosophy re Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....maybe. A few irresolves. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "lewis lacook" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:49 PM Subject: on collins & canada > here here barrett & damian! i'm almost tempted to > relocate myself=== > i had the misfortune of meeting mr billy collins > once...my alma mater kent state brought him in for a > glowing performance (i hear they had creeley there > last year, which must have been a tremendous > improvement)---i was part of a grad workshop at the > time, & one of their little scolarship winners, so i > had to be brought out for mr collins' rousing > reading...i was tremendously altered at the time (it > being a very different time than now), & had spent > most of the day skipping classes & reading ted > berrigan---so i asked mr collins his opinion of > berrigan---he chuckled and said something like, huh, > yeah, write poems on pepsi and dexedrine===which i > thought a bit dismissive... > > (i met allen ginsberg once too...he was quite kind, > and great to talk to...he wanted me to read more > smart---) > bliss > l > > > ===== > > Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html > meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:43:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: <000c01c2913b$3555ab20$662356d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philosophy re > Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....maybe. Richard, if Collins really does have a "philosophy re Berrigan" I'll eat George Bowering's hat. Make mine Pepsi, Damian "Life is Never boring when you are Tarzan of the Apes e.g. You step out from behind a bush and you say 'Yes, I am M'sieur Tarzan'" -- "Tambourine Life" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:25:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Spiral Bridge Subject: Open Drum Circle @ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 The Naked Readings Sunday, Nov. 24th 6pm - Midnight Open Mic. Poetry $5 Suggested donation Almost Famous Local Poets Reading Original Material Sandwiched Between = Two Great Slices of Live Music.=20 Music: Collective Expression Jam Session=20 Bring a drum or something to shake and join Spiral Bridge for a huge jam = session. Together we will embark on a unique spontaneous rhythmic = experience of collective expression. Drumming is a creative fun way to = express ourselves collectively so please join us this Sunday night at = 6pm for an experiment in life, the Spiral Bridge Community Drum Circle.=20 Facilitated by Percussionist Gina Ferrera Disclaimer: This is not a drum workshop or class but an open = collaborative Community Drum Circle. We're opening up the time we = usually reserve for bands to you, the members of our community to = participate as we transcend language and barriers.=20 Bloomfield Ave. Caf=E9 & Stage=20 347 Bloomfield Ave. Montclair, NJ=20 Sunday Nov. 24th, 2002 6pm-Midnight ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:52:15 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM Subject: Re: programming language advice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline perl is as good as any for this sort of work. It has an extensive library of modules - http://www.cpan.org/ - which has a lot of text processing modules. At it's very heart is a pattern-matching library (Regular Expressions)- it is very much text-based. I recommend the O'Reilly book "mastering regular expressions". I'd also get the O'reilly Perl book (the camel one), plus the one on Perl patterns. I would also rec hanging around comp.lang.perl.misc - there's a fount of knowledge thereabouts and they're always willing to help people. If you look in the Kernigan & Pike book "The Practice Of Programming", they give examples of implementing a Markov Chain in C, but also (I seem to recall) in Java. They might include Perl examples, but you can easily translate the C into Perl. It's also a good book to read and apply: perl can become a little complex over large programs so I always think it wise to adopt a good methodology when using this language. For the professional programmer having to maintain perl over a period of years, perl has it's pitfalls. I currently help maintain a perl program of some 20K lines. However, with that caveat, I think it's the ideal choice for your kind of work. B/C me if you want any advice. At 20/11/2002 19:05:05, "J. P. Craig" wrote: # Hello Poetics List Folks, # This is my first post to this list, and it's not about poetics so # much as it is about tools for creating a kind of poetry I have been # writing. I have been working with and old Macintosh program called # Electric Poet to create Markov chain models of source texts. A # Markoved text is randomized version of the source that is based upon # the statistical likelihood of one word appearing after another in the # source text. You can see some of the poetry I've generate using this # tool and cut-up methods at 5_trope: # http://webdelsol.com/5_trope/14/craig.htm. # # I need a new software tool because I'm wanting to change the way the # Markov algorithm works, to continue my exploration of language and # defamiliarization in new ways, and because Electric Poet is no longer # supported. # # I have little money and less time because I'm working on a # dissertation. It's hard enough for me to find time to write, but I # must because it's the only way to keep me me as I work on this # academic thing. So I don't have much to invest in a new programming # tool. So I want advice on the choice I've made of Perl to do this # thing. # # Does anyone here have experience creating software tools to work with # poetry? It seems there must be from the work I see discussed and # posted. And has anyone used Perl for this? I'm also interested in # suggestions of alternative tools for this, given my lack of time and # cash. # # This prose is horrible. I've been reading software manuals since I # got up, and my brain is very, very patriarchally poetic now. (I'm # also a digest reader, rather than continuous postings--perhaps it # would be better to discuss this "backchannel" anyway.) JP # -- # # J. P. Craig # U. Iowa English Dept. # # the closer we look at a word the greater the distance from which it stares back # -- Karl Kraus (in _My Way_ by Chas. Bernstein) # Roger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:24:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Answer For Mark duCharme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen Vincent in an earlier posting made a distinction between Spicer and Duncan's "nature" and Rexroth's. He further qualified that distinction by adding that Spicer and Duncan's "nature" differed from each other's. I asked for some clarification about Spicer's use of nature in his poetry, because--from what I can recall, since I don't have Spicer's books with me in Japan--I never really considered Spicer a nature poet. I could understand his ref. to Duncan, but the inclusion of Spicer intrigued me. I did not try to equate location with the use of nature in poetry. That could have been Stephen's bag, but it was never mine. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:39:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: programming language advice In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi David, Long time no see. >If you are looking for a markov generator for perl, there is one >implementation by Ron Starr which can be found here: > >http://www.eskimo.com/~rstarr/poormfa/poemtool.html Thanks for the link to my neighbor at eskimo.com. Other people had told me there was someone else there interested in new writing, but they didn't have a URL. >Also, the burning deck site has a tools page with numerous programs for mac >and pc: > >http://www.burningpress.org/toolbox/ &, except that Burning Press isn't the same as Burning Deck, this looks like a great site. Hope you're doing well. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:54:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jesse glass Subject: Cid Corman in Japan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gerald, Though Cid's OKU No HOSOMICHI is considered one of the best English translations of Basho's classic and Cid is known for his translations of Kuzano Shimpei's poetry as well as haiku from any number of Japanese haijin, classical and modern, he suffers what every foreign person who lives here suffers. We are all OUTSIDERS. Cid's Japanese poet and artist friends have almost all died and Cid and Shizumi pretty much live by themselves. There are visitors, of course, but most of them are "foreigners" from outside Japan. What a tragedy! Here is one person who has done so much to promote an understanding of Japanese literature among English speakers and he is not recognized by the very people he has served so well. If Cid were an outside "expert" coming to Japan for a few days, weeks, or a month or two, he would be an honored guest. Since he's made Japan his home on and off for 50 years, he's just another Gaijin. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:27:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <000601c2911a$beb1dd60$8a3a5786@diogenes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Who, after all, would want poems to make things simpler than { they are. President Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. Or maybe Mr. Einstein. Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:34:17 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on collins & canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you met said Collins? He must have a philosophy: all men (meaning beings) have philo sophies, so, ergo, thou must consume G B's hat. Everyone..nay , in fact my cat has a philosophy: it has a philosophy of being a cat and always going where its most dangerous to a human and it: so even Mr Collins must have a philo sophy.... so you must comsume, partake of, ingest, swallow, chew, crunch, munch, bite, tear at, savage, maul, and othewise dispose of Monsieur Bowering's hat for which he must be compensated or another hat replaced which is a reasonably complete simulacrum or approximation of the hattedness of the lauriat or is it (lariat?) royal of Greater Canada: or I'll set Jonah Lomu the rugby giant (Samoan-Kiwi) onto you.... (albeit he has kidney problems he's probably much bigger than any of us..and much younger.....and worth a lot more...in money terms ...) .... Berrigan wrote bean spasms...now; put THAT to Bill Collins...that'll put the wind up him! In more ways than one! I'll give you Billy Collins hasnt got a Berrigan flosofy! Coarse e as! Judge that one.... Yours as ever. I havent read anyting by Monsieur Collins so cant comment ...but he's certainly copping some flak. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damian Judge Rollison" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:43 PM Subject: Re: on collins & canada > > poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philosophy re > > Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....maybe. > > Richard, if Collins really does have a "philosophy re > Berrigan" I'll eat George Bowering's hat. > > Make mine Pepsi, > Damian > > > > "Life is Never boring when you are Tarzan of the Apes > e.g. You step out from behind a bush > and you say > 'Yes, I am M'sieur Tarzan'" > > -- "Tambourine Life" > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > damian judge rollison > department of english > university of virginia > djr4r@virginia.edu > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:57:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "R. Drake" Subject: Re: programming language advice In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit miekal and's PATALITERATOR program, at the burning press site, is based on phonemic combinatorials... as i remember, he's loaded a set of cv phonemes (based on naturally occurring english) and the program then does random concatenation. am i remembering right, m? lbd on 11/21/02 2:12 AM, MWP at mpalmer@JPS.NET wrote: > This is a great list of links that you and the others have been providing, > DA! But do any of these text-based transformation programs deal with > phonemes, say, as opposed to letters and words? After all, poetry is > organized SOUND, not pictographs! > > I have experimented with creating texts using strict patterns of vowel > phonemes as permutational tone-rows a la serial music, and would love to do > something like that more extensively with the aid of an algorithm. Any > chance that something like this already exists or allows me to come close? > > > mwp > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:02:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: obLiqUE paRt(itON): colLABorationS In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please check out the new ebook release of collaborations at xPress(ed) ( http://www.xpressed.org ). kari edwards, Chris Martin and Sherman Souther: obLiqUE paRt(itON): colLABorationS kari edwards ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:04:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: new titles from xPress(ed) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Seven new titles from xPress(ed) Peter Ganick: each acre ISBN 951-9198-13-X, 22 pages Lewis LaCook: drowning in the age of mid-air ISBN 951-9198-12-1, 42 pages Sheila E. Murphy: ample safe and missing roads ISBN 951-9198-14-8, 22 pages Paolo Javier: I sculpt poems ISBN 951-9198-08-3, 31 pages kari edwards, Chris Martin and Sherman Souther : obLiqUE paRt(itON): colLABorationS ISBN 951-9198-10-5, 18 pages Andrew Topel: puzzles ISBN 951-9198-09-1, 12 pages Michael Basinski and Wendy Collin Sorin: PIE PEICES ISBN 951-9198-11-3, 10 pages All downloads are free, books are in PDF and/or PalmPilot PDB formats. Further information for contacting xPress(ed) from website http://www.xpressed.org Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xPress(ed) http://www.xpressed.org __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:53:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: call for mss. eratio postmodern poetry. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit eratio, a little webzine, welcomely invites the poetics list to come explore and to submit poetry for its inaugural issue. http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com --peace, gregory ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:03:08 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: PALPI etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for cross-posting Among the printed material Bob Cobbing left behind, there is a significant amount relating to the activities of Association of Little Presses etc This can be catalogues or newsletters or the magazine (Poetry and Little Press Information or PALPI) or notices and listings of one kind or another Now in one way such materials date really quickly - publishers' lists and addresses change, sometimes rapidly, projects end - but from another point of view the documents are an invaluable research source for anyone interested in little magazines we intend keeping at least one copy of everything for the archive we are assembling of Bob Cobbing's work. In many cases that's all there is; but some items exist in quantity If no one wants them, they can be recycled; but this is an enquiry to see if anyone is interested in maintaining another archive NB There is no list of such material yet - just let us know if you might be interested; and, then, as we are able, we'll let you know Writers Forum http://pages.britishlibrary.net/writersforum/ blank message to WFInfo-subscribe@topica.com for newsletter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:24:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Paulin reinvited In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New York Times November 21, 2002 Poet Who Spoke Against Israel Is Reinvited to Talk at Harvard By ROBERT F. WORTH Citing concerns about freedom of speech, Harvard University's English department has renewed an invitation to the Irish poet Tom Paulin to give a lecture, just a week after he was disinvited for expressing strongly anti-Israeli views. The new invitation, approved in a vote on Tuesday night, drew sharply differing responses from faculty members and students at Harvard, which has been troubled by heated debates and demonstrations about Israel in the past year. Some expressed relief, saying the university had crossed the line by disinviting a poet because of his political views. Others were outraged and said the decision would lead to renewed protests. "I hope that those who choose to attend the planned reading will respect the rights of those who wish to hear the speaker," Harvard's president, Lawrence H. Summers, said yesterday in a statement. Mr. Paulin's invitation was rescinded on Nov. 12 after students, faculty members and alumni expressed outrage about comments Mr. Paulin made to an Egyptian newspaper in April. He said Brooklyn-born Jews who had settled in the West Bank "should be shot dead," adding, "I think they are Nazis, racists; I feel nothing but hatred for them." Mr. Paulin did not respond to messages left at Columbia University, where he is a visiting faculty member this fall, but he has said that his views have been distorted and that he does not support attacks on Israeli citizens under any circumstances. Mr. Summers released an approving statement after the invitation was rescinded. But the decision to disinvite Mr. Paulin prompted a rebuke from three professors at Harvard Law School: Alan M. Dershowitz, Laurence H. Tribe and Charles Fried. In a joint letter published in The Harvard Crimson, they wrote that rescinding the invitation simply because it would be divisive was a "truly dangerous" precedent. Mr. Paulin is likely to accept the invitation, said James Shapiro, a professor at Columbia who knows him. Faculty members at Harvard expressed a variety of responses to the English department's decision. "The purpose of a university is to see a variety of points of view," said Patrick Cavanagh, a psychology professor who signed a petition calling for Harvard to divest from companies doing business in Israel. "Here's a man who's a wonderful poet, and if his politics are more controversial, that's really beside the point." Jay M. Harris, a professor of Jewish studies, called the invitation unconscionable. "Nobody is stopping him from exercising his First Amendment rights," he said. "But an invitation from Harvard is different. We wouldn't invite David Duke to speak." For some, Mr. Paulin's political statements is complicated by his history of linking literature and politics. Mr. Paulin, who grew up in Belfast, has criticized the poet Philip Larkin as racist, and in a review several years ago wrote approvingly of a book that criticized T. S. Eliot as anti-Semitic. For some of Mr. Paulin's defenders, remarks like that prove that his rhetorical attacks on Israel are not anti-Semitic. Others say Mr. Paulin had simply invoked a standard that could and should be used against him. "You can't say both things at the same time without there being a paradox," said Rita Goldberg, a lecturer on literature at Harvard, referring to Mr. Paulin's earlier critiques of anti-Semitism and his comments about Israel. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:08:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Answer For Mark duCharme/ qua nature/Spicer In-Reply-To: <000101c291df$0bf90980$7014d8cb@ahadada.gol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jesse: Just to re-iterate & clarify "Stephen's bag" re Spicer, this is what I posted as a #2 to a double post with the other focus on Rexroth: "As to Spicer and Nature and Jesse's question. I don't want to say nature is not present as a "real" in Spicer's work, though, it seems to me that natural artifice is used most frequently as metaphor, as a means of opening an internal network of psychic and personal associations. It is the branch that scratches the heart, etc. Though certainly Aquatic Park on the edge of the Bay was a launching ground from some of the great works, Letters to Lorca, for example. Those are real Sea Gulls. However, in terms of larger California as an integral space, I am always momentarily shocked when he gets as far as Stinson beach, or finds himself in a bar outside Riverside. I find these as kind of counter-claustrophobic moments in the space of his work. His containment within very specific spaces I suspect is an issue of psycho-biography - I suspect part of it goes to an enormous sense of vulnerability outside the relative safety of his city routines and literary circle. HOWEVER, to say that he was oblivious to Nature would be stupid. Apparently he read Robinson Jeffers in depth and I think the following is a great poem from Language in the terms we're discussing: A redwood forest is not invisible at night. The blackness covers it but it covers the blackness. If they had turned Jeffers into a parking lot death would have been eliminated and birth also. The lights shine 24 hours a day on a parking lot. True conservation is the effort of the artist and the private man to keep things true. Trees and the cliffs in Big Sur breathe in the dark. Jeffers knew the pain of their breath and the pain was the death of a first-born baby breathing. Death is not final. Only parking lots. _______ In 1968, during the demonstrations for People's Park in Berkeley, and three years after his death, I asked Clifford Burke to print the poem as a broadside (on green paper) and it was handed out as a free poem on Telegraph Avenue. Ironically, Graham MacKintosh, Spicer's friend and printer of White Rabbit Press books, later told me, "Jack would have hated street people." So there you go. Sometimes you have to liberate poems into the presence of the public weal, the poet's control - dead or alive - be damned." Without taking the time in a busy morning to go back into Peter Gizzi's excellent book, and Kevin K and Lew Ellingham's biography, I am re-remembering at least a Duncan notion, I believe, of a poetry in this City as a redemptive spiritual site, a community of poets in which (implicitly) Blazer, Spicer and Duncan were variously reigning bishops (of sorts!). In any case the activity was not vernacular based. None of the poets - to my perhaps limited knowledge - every showed up at a Planning Commission meeting. San Francisco State Poetry Center politics -of which Duncan and Ruth Diamant were co-founders in 1952 - however, was definitely a part of conviction and play. Rexroth, on the other hand, was definitely located in the push and shove of vernacular/material world (undoubtedly he was cognizant/involved with battles at City Hall). This curious separation between poetry as spiritual - and not political - behavior was most evident in the political upheavals of the late sixties in which it was really hard to make correspondences between Duncan's work (when he was asked to read publicly) and the realities of struggles on the street. The work appeared to be up on the moon. (Which is not to say he was not personally sympathetic and supportive of the left and against the old guard). George Oppen's work - also then a local - had a much more "material" resonance. This all takes me back to Barry Watten's take on Cities (Detroit and LA) as contexts/spaces - the materiality of which - reflects a continuous evolving site in which poetry and art - particularly photography in the last 30 years - is actively engaged in the dynamics of politics, architecture, advertising, economics, race, etc. The City is a site (perhaps a form of nature?)that offers much different visceral challenge to the language (poetry) than a literary/spiritual based one. I thank you Jesse and others for keeping this discussion a bit alive. I think it's an important one. Stephen Vincent on 11/21/02 8:24 PM, jesse glass at ahadada@GOL.COM wrote: > Stephen Vincent in an earlier posting made a distinction between Spicer and > Duncan's "nature" and Rexroth's. He further qualified that distinction by > adding that Spicer and Duncan's "nature" differed from each other's. I > asked for some clarification about Spicer's use of nature in his poetry, > because--from what I can recall, since I don't have Spicer's books with me > in Japan--I never really considered Spicer a nature poet. I could > understand his ref. to Duncan, but the inclusion of Spicer intrigued me. I > did not try to equate location with the use of nature in poetry. That could > have been Stephen's bag, but it was never mine. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:16:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: programming language advice In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for someone who says theyve dropped out of the scene, yr listening pretty close to the buzz, luigi... pataliterator was created in hypercard using hypertalk. I still work in a copy of hypercard I have from 92, & now that there is a rumor that hypercard is being taken up again & ported to the net who knows... also the new supercard can read hypercard stacks & play them on the net with a plugin. PATALITERATOR allows you to put -emic text strings into fields & then create a library of possible patterns. really the function of that particular stack is that you can push a button & come back four hours (or so) later & it will have created a language based on yr inputted -emes & generated a 40 to 80 page unique one of a kind book based on a simple random parsing of the patterns. what could be more !pata that no two books alike. mIEKAL On Thursday, November 21, 2002, at 07:57 AM, R. Drake wrote: > miekal and's PATALITERATOR program, at the burning press site, is > based on > phonemic combinatorials... as i remember, he's loaded a set of cv > phonemes > (based on naturally occurring english) and the program then does random > concatenation. am i remembering right, m? > > lbd > > on 11/21/02 2:12 AM, MWP at mpalmer@JPS.NET wrote: > >> This is a great list of links that you and the others have been >> providing, >> DA! But do any of these text-based transformation programs deal with >> phonemes, say, as opposed to letters and words? After all, poetry is >> organized SOUND, not pictographs! >> >> I have experimented with creating texts using strict patterns of vowel >> phonemes as permutational tone-rows a la serial music, and would love >> to do >> something like that more extensively with the aid of an algorithm. Any >> chance that something like this already exists or allows me to come >> close? >> >> >> mwp >> > > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:10:29 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Prageeta Sharma Subject: Apartment for elderly couple (60+) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! Just a reminder, if you can help out an elderly writer/professor couple who need an apartment (1 to 2 bedrooms) to live permanently in Brooklyn, Queens, or Manhattan for $1200 or under. (I know that it is impossible to find) BUT still, if you can, you would be doing a wonderfully good deed. Thanks so much. Thanks so much to the people who contacted me. Either the rent was higher than $1200 or it was too far away. These two are wonderful, vibrant, and intellectually stimulating individuals. You would love having them as your neighbor. Please pass this along. Best regards, Prageeta ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:33:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT: Please note that the Poetry Project will be CLOSED from Nov 27th to Nov 30t= h for the Thanksgiving Holiday. There will be NO READING on Wednesday November 27 and NO WORKSHOP on either the Friday evening or Saturday afternoon (the second of Janet Hamill's four workshops will run as normal on Tuesday evening). We will be back the following week with an Open Reading on Monday December 2, and Joel Lewis and Douglas Rothschild on Wednesday December 4. Meanwhile, we wish you all a Very Happy Holiday! *** MONDAY NOVEMBER 25 [8:00pm] JARRET KEENE AND JEN ROBINSON http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** MONDAY NOVEMBER 25 [8:00pm] JARRET KEENE AND JEN ROBINSON Jarret Keene's first book, Monster Fashion, was published by Manic D Press and was described by William Trowbridge as "perverse, lurid, paranoid, violent, grotesque, and incorrigible =8B apt to change your idea of beauty." He currently writes for an alternative newspaper in Las Vegas, Nevada. Jen Robinson is the author of For Conifer Fanatics (Soft Skull Press), Darwin in Argentina (Mundungus), and, with Brendan Lorber, Dictionary of Useful Phrases (The Gift). Her work has appeared in numerous journals, including Blue Book and Wild Matters, as well as the television series Dawson's Creek. She is puzzle editor for Lungfull! magazine and is currentl= y at work on a prose project concerning horseshoe crabs. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:23:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Landers, Susan" Subject: Cy Press is Pleased to Announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Magazine Cypress issue 1 Fall/Winter 2002 new work by: Anselm Berrigan, Jim Behrle, Brenda Bordofsky, Sean Cole, Del Ray Cross, Buck Downs, Chris Jackson, Aaron Kiely, Susan Landers, Michael Magee, Jenn McCreary, K. Silem Mohammad, Karen Weiser, & an interview with Joseph Lease conducted by Wanda Phipps Magazine Cypress is five dollars. A subscription for two issues is eight dollars. Please make checks/money orders (or send cash!) payable to Dana Ward, & mail orders to Cy Press c/o Dana Ward 1118 Cypress St. Apt. 3 Cincinnati, Oh 45206 mail@cypresspoetry.com Please visit www.cypresspoetry.com Also available from Cy Press: 31 mgs.-Susan Landers with illus. by Gary Sullivan Harry's Sonnet-Dana Ward 4 dollars each or both for 6 dollars. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:26:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Public speech / Heather Fuller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POESY: A PUBLIC SPEECH (ripped from the headlines like LAW & ORDER) in the chill evening here in Lincoln Park something must follow something non-reciprocal stuck stuck stuck fucking stuck and all the while the moon -- now it's November 19th and full -- dead shadows is this all sometimes the mind is just barely aware of this of its numbness brainpan all unnerving pathos unhinged (non-rational) Yeah, BABY -- I'll always scream THEN sleep KLAXO-WELCOME VERY MUCH is that all JUST location LOCATION location RE -- somewhere off the Medicaid grid compassion needn't interfere -- PROMOTED?!REINTEGRATED?!BACK?!WHERE?! Let's be clear: OVER(fact) THE(fact) PAST(fact) 8(fact) MONTHS(fact), NEW(fact)YORK(fact)STATE'S(fact)GOVERNOR(fact) PATAKI(fact) HAS(fact) BEEN(fact) EXPORTING(fact) HUNDREDS(fact) OF(fact) US(fact) TO(fact) HELLHOLE(fact) ASYLUMS(fact) IN(fact) JERSEY(fact) locked away AWAY(period) --Gerald Schwartz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Rathmann" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Public speech / Heather Fuller > BW focuses on media misrepresentation, but isn't there a more essential question, to wit: What is poetry able to communicate about political life that isn't already present among the contending points of view? We have already been served large helpings of satire and clownishness, and no minds have been changed. Why should a reader looking for guidance on U.S. foreign policy turn to poetry instead of the NY Times editorial pages (or to any of the websites that Patrick Herron has been citing)? > > I think there are ways to answer these questions. Take the issue of homelessness. This has been, I think, one of the most common topics chosen by poets who wish to engage social questions: maybe because it manifests itself on an individual (that is, lyric) scale. Heather Fuller writes about homelessness, with some success, in Dovecote (the dovecote, one notes, is a figure for communal shelter). I think the value of these lines, from "Trip Set," derives from the psychological honesty of the speaker and, just as importantly, the humor and weirdness of some of the writing. Rather than merely show off the poet's personal charm or daffiness, this weirdness has the scent of another person's actual life: > > follow him > he returned from the institution with a lisp > > he said it was a good place > > good place for a letter bomb > > I sent vitamins and postcards > > working in the vatican of accountability > > cash comes into my hands and I > find excuses > > eventually the eviction of squatters > after the effigy of flags > > it's easier to cry for the anonymous > neighborhood burning down > > an action in missing > > Honesty (the speaker's admission that, when she gets a little cash, she finds excuses to keep it for herslf) and authenticity (the ex-mental patient's lisp -- how strange) embodied in the speech of our time ("good place for a letter bomb"): these things are at home on lyric terrain. The lines do not, I think, offer much in the way of social analysis, but then that may be beside the point. Perhaps lyric candor and a spirit of inquiry into other people's lives ("follow him...") are enough. > > Andy > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:45:15 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Paulin reinvited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe she did and it's been cut, but I think Ms Goldberg needs to explain *why one cannot say both things at the same time without there being a paradox L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Joris" To: Sent: 21 November 2002 16:24 Subject: Paulin reinvited | "You can't say both things at the same time without there being a paradox," | said Rita Goldberg, a lecturer on literature at Harvard, referring to Mr. | Paulin's earlier critiques of anti-Semitism and his comments about Israel. | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:46:06 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anslem Berrigan Subject: Re: pepsi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The negative effects of Pepsi can make you anxious excitable restless dizzy irritable unable to concentrate gastrointestinal (GI) aches headaches that don't seem to go away trouble with sleeping Yeah, probably. But the signs didn't show in the home. I don't suppose any of the folks who like to point to his habits could ever fathom the reality of his being a terrific father. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:23:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Upcoming Wordsworth Books Events Wordsworth Books 30 Brattle St. Cambridge, MA 02138 (617) 354 5201 fax (617) 354 4674 SAT 11/23 5 PM *Trevor Joyce and Joseph Torra* SUN 11/24 5 PM *Christina Strong and Mark Lamoureux* MON 11/25 7 PM *Laura Solomon and Jonah Winter* FRI-SUN 12/6-12/8 A Boston Winter Poetry Conference: Fanny Howe, Gerrit Lansing, John Wieners,Stephen Jonas, Word of Mouth Readings and panels celebrating the work and contributions of these 4 terrific Boston poets and Michael Franco's legendary Cambridge reading series Word of Mouth. FRI 12/6 7 PM John Wieners panel (Jim Dunn, Charles Chively and others) with readings of his work to follow SAT 12/7 3 PM Fanny Howe panel (William Corbett, Jorie Graham and others) with readings to follow 7 PM Stephen Jonas panel (Joseph Torra, Aldon Nielsen and others) with readings of his work to follow SUN 12/8 1 PM Gerrit Lansing (Pierre Joris and others) panel with readings to follow 5 PM a celebration of Word of Mouth with readings Please attend if you're into attending. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:27:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: Collins, Pepsi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I met Billy Collins last year at an event I hosted. Liked him quite a bit, was a very unpretentious, darkly wry and funny guy. Every time I drink a Pepsi (or read the NY POST) I think about Berrigan and those great poems. Pepsico should start a Berrigan poetry grant, for all the product placement they've gotten over the years. --Jim Behrle _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:34:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: billy collins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed BILLY COLLINS The small beads of grease riding the soup-sheen are all I have. I would suck them up and forget the soup. They are orange as kerosene as if they spilled from a farm house deep in the soup. Maybe I will put my eye down close to the grease waves and try to see the fields and the distant churchyard in the chicken noodle. I will wave to the farm girl waiting for her mama, and think what a lank silo of love will meet her in those fields. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:28:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: on collins & canada (that darn cat) In-Reply-To: <003001c29162$b29dbe20$455736d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE What fun to be Taylorized. In the words of Lenny Bruce,=20 "God damn, it makes you feel clean, don't it!"=20 Maybe Disney could make a film about Billy Collins'=20 philosophy, starring talking cats. Oh, wait ... Oh, I long for the days when Hass was boss When Rita Dove taught us how to love That golden time when Pinsky was insky Stanley in his garden have me a ------ Compared to the current comp=E8re ... -- D On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:34:17 +1300 "richard.tylr"=20 wrote: > Have you met said Collins? He must have a philosophy: all men (meaning > beings) have philo sophies, so, ergo, thou must consume G B's hat. > Everyone..nay , in fact my cat has a philosophy: it has a philosophy of > being a cat and always going where its most dangerous to a human and it: = so > even Mr Collins must have a philo sophy.... so you must comsume, partake = of, > ingest, swallow, chew, crunch, munch, bite, tear at, savage, maul, and > othewise dispose of Monsieur Bowering's hat for which he must be compensa= ted > or another hat replaced which is a reasonably complete simulacrum or > approximation of the hattedness of the lauriat or is it (lariat?) royal = of > Greater Canada: or I'll set Jonah Lomu the rugby giant (Samoan-Kiwi) onto > you.... (albeit he has kidney problems he's probably much bigger than any= of > us..and much younger.....and worth a lot more...in money terms ...) .... > Berrigan wrote bean spasms...now; put THAT to Bill Collins...that'll put = the > wind up him! In more ways than one! I'll give you Billy Collins hasnt got= a > Berrigan flosofy! Coarse e as! Judge that one.... Yours as ever. I haven= t > read anyting by Monsieur Collins so cant comment ...but he's certainly > copping some flak. Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Damian Judge Rollison" > To: > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:43 PM > Subject: Re: on collins & canada >=20 >=20 > > > poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philoso= phy > re > > > Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....may= be. > > > > Richard, if Collins really does have a "philosophy re > > Berrigan" I'll eat George Bowering's hat. > > > > Make mine Pepsi, > > Damian > > > > > > > > "Life is Never boring when you are Tarzan of the Apes > > e.g. You step out from behind a bush > > and you say > > 'Yes, I am M'sieur Tarzan'" > > > > -- "Tambourine Life" > > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > damian judge rollison > > department of english > > university of virginia > > djr4r@virginia.edu > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu=20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:13:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: JFK, opium of the masses, poetry of the masses MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It would be In the land Of the free Of in ter Est Ifn J FK and Camelot Got through their Time In the light Im bibing Pepsis Or was it? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:23:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: collins, pepsi, fatherhood, wonder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i never meant to say billy collins was a bad guy...simply reporting my impressions... one of the reaons i asked him was i see the influence of berrigan on collins' work...collins' work seems like a flat berrigan to me...while mr berrigan's work of course is always fresh... ///berrigan was at the time and still is one of my favorites, and i'm sure many here feel the same way////there's such a manic kindness glwing from those poems, which is what really touched me about them from the very beginning...& one can learn a great deal about living by reading mr berrigan's work... one could also learn a lot about living reading collins, but collins just isn't to my taste somehow...granted, there are some clever moments in much of his work, but it all seems too...well, clever...i always sense an emptiness in collins' work, which is actually pretty linear and straighforward much of the time, which i never got from berrigan's work, which, while often not being linear and at times anything but straighforward, often touched me with a huge depth beneath what would in lesser hands (like mine) be pyrotechnics...yes, i prefer berrigan to ashbery, which is not to say ashbery isn't wonderful///& i prefer berrigan to (gasp!) o'hara, though o'hara too has much to teach.... bliss l ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:29:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT After this: {Who, after all, would want poems to make things simpler than they are. President Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins.} Halvard writes: Or maybe Mr. Einstein. "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein I Reply: It's the "simpler" that's the case, the issue, with certain turns of language in politcs / news / art. Not the "simple as possible" with which I agree. And with which we all probably could agree? PS. I survived reading a copy of Collins' _Picnic Lightening_, but I found nothing there to trouble me into wakefulness. Best, _JG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:39:13 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roger.day@GLOBALGRAPHICS.COM Subject: parable of languages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline http://weblog.burningbird.net/fires/000581.htm quite an amusing link for those interested in computer languages. Roger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:48:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Production Comments: cc: webartery , "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't know if I read about unloading that truck this morning or. Smoking with a dim wink of vague sky scrolling over my face and hands, glasses and goatee, slice of Swiss in my teeth for they're moving poems off the blotter and into the signshop, where Hugh Heffner, all a-dribble with building, simulates a talent search with a reach to land unculled from any guidebook's preface. Eyes and ears, nose and mouth before you see them touch down on pop-up window purgation, epicenter more natural than feng shui. I don't know if these boxes come with anything more analogous to the present than this. Rain. Ammonia. 2:39 PM 11/21/02 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:17:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: bowering on collins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we should notice the careful phrasing "more difficult than they appear to be." Appearances can be deceiving. DB -----Original Message----- From: Peter Quartermain To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:01 PM Subject: Re: bowering on collins >On 20 November mIEKAL aND wrote: >>> In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good >>>poems >> tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." >> george did you really say that? >------ >I sure hope you did, George, it's truly brilliant and pithy. Who, after >all, would want poems to make things simpler than they are. President >Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. > >======================================= >"If you write about what you know, you will keep on writing the same >thing, and you will never know any more than you do now." > George Bowering. A Magpie Life. > ======================================= >Peter Quartermain >846 Keefer Street >Vancouver B.C. >Canada V6A 1Y7 > >voice 604 255 8274 >fax 604 255 8204 >quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca >======================================= > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:39:16 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: programming language advice-sound In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII you might want to have a look/listen to my "How to Pick up a Ringing Phoneme" http://www.ubu.com/feature/sound/feature_hehir.html cheers, kevin ps/ thanks for all the Bok contacts. I've tried all three addresses. On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, MWP wrote: > This is a great list of links that you and the others have been providing, > DA! But do any of these text-based transformation programs deal with > phonemes, say, as opposed to letters and words? After all, poetry is > organized SOUND, not pictographs! > > I have experimented with creating texts using strict patterns of vowel > phonemes as permutational tone-rows a la serial music, and would love to do > something like that more extensively with the aid of an algorithm. Any > chance that something like this already exists or allows me to come close? > > > mwp > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My weeks seem to whiz by. I think I need my chain loosened, or something. Conor Hehir ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:27:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: George Bowering appointed Parliamentary Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <004501c28ab6$0f091690$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >My warmest and most meaningful congratulations, George. We can say we knew >you when. > >In for the long haul, >Aaron > > >p.s. I have enjoyed "Poems 1961-92" over the past 12 months. Best book I >found on my last trip to Ottawa. Thanks, Aaron. I am now back in Vancouver after being Ottawadded. Lotta mail. Thanks for yrs. -- George Bowering In for the long haul. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:52:19 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: ::: f r i e n d l y r e m i n d e r ::: ==> Mini-Festival of Digital Poetry Comments: To: regis_philbin@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (sorry to spam again) (just wanted to mention that the Four Horseman line in the earlier invite was facetious -- I just wanted you to check out this great Flash piece from a Danish children's site: http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf) *** THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm was created to announce: THE SEGUE READING SERIES AT THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB Mini-Festival of (so-called*) Digital Poetry :::featuring performances and presentations by Angela Rawlings (Toronto): http://www.commutiny.net/ Patrick Herron (Chapel Hill): http://www.proximate.org Noah Wardrip-Fruin (New York): http://www.impermanenceagent.com Paul Chan (New York): http://nationalphilistine.com/alternumerics/ Aya Karpinska (New York): http://www.nomadnet.org/audiophfile4/Aya/aya.htm Loss Pequeno Glazier (Buffalo): http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/glazier/ The Prize Budget for Boys (Toronto) who are: Neil Hennessy (The Jabber Engine and Basho's Frogger, at http://www.ubu.com), Jason Le Heup & Ian Hooper :::and? AND there will be a panel discussion afterwards immoderated by Brian Kim Stefans (curator and organizer) AND it's 2-fer-1 drinks and it's not shameful to start at 4pm for a poet/poetry goer AND you may know what they've done online but we guarantee that the presence/performance/presentation will be entirely new (to you) AND there's a rumor the legendary Toronto sound poetry group The Four Horsemen may perform! (http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf) :::where? 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON -- NEW YORK CITY, NY, USA :::when? SATURDAY, NOV 23rd, FROM 4 - 7 PM :::and what, pray tell, does it cost? $5 admission goes to support the readers all of this information is repeated on the THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN http://www.arras.net/mini_digi_fest.htm I hope you can make it -- should be fun, an eye opener, and bring your questions! * The use of the phrase "so-called" prior to an aesthetic categorization is an old experimental poetry tradition; please disregard if it causes you unusual discomfort. ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:33:16 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: free speech MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Canada to U.S.: Mind your business Don't tell us how to run our military, defence minister admonishes U.S. president. Second Canadian official calls Bush'a moron' for pushing Iraq onto NATO agenda Robert Fife The Ottawa Citizen Thursday, November 21, 2002 ADVERTISEMENT PRAGUE -- Defence Minister John McCallum bluntly told George W. Bush yesterday to stop lecturing Canada about increased defence spending after the U.S. president urged the federal government and the NATO allies to boost their military budgets to confront new international threats from terrorism and rogue states. The Bush administration, particularly through Paul Cellucci, its ambassador to Canada, has been calling on Canada to increase defence spending and to purchase new heavy-lift aircraft so it does not have to rely on the U.S. to transport Canadian troops. Mr. McCallum said yesterday he is fed up with the Americans hectoring Canada about its low defence expenditures, even though he himself has been publicly lobbying for greater military spending. "I would not urge the president of the United States or the U.S. ambassador to Canada to do my job to ask for more defence spending. I think that is a Canadian matter," Mr. McCallum told reporters. He added: "I think a number of Canadians were a little bit ticked off when the ambassador keeps pushing." "It is a made-in-Canada decision, so while Mr. Bush may be asking for what I am asking for, I am not asking for his help." On the eve of today's opening of the 19-member NATO summit in the Czech capital, Mr. Bush made an impassioned appeal for the western alliance to strengthen its military "to confront terror camps in remote regions or hidden laboratories of outlawed regimes." Mr. Bush said NATO needs to develop new capabilities, including a 21,000-member rapid reaction force, more special forces, better precision weapons and more modern command structures if it is to win the war against global terrorism and rogue states, like Iraq. The president did not directly name Canada, but it has the third-lowest military budget in the NATO alliance, spending more than only Luxembourg and Iceland, which does not have a military. "NATO forces must be better able to fight side by side. Those forces must be more mobile and more swiftly deployed," he told the Atlantic Youth Council. "For some alliance members, this will require higher defence spending. For all of us, it will require more effective defence spending with each nation having the tools and technology to fight and win a new kind of war." At a later news conference, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien would not comment on Mr. Bush's appeal, other than to say he would like to pump more money into the military, but the government has many other priorities. "Me too, I would like to spend more money on defence. I'd like to spend more money on everything, but we have to make these decisions when come the budget," he said. Earlier in the day, a senior Canadian official, who asked not to be identified, called Mr. Bush "a moron" because of his efforts to push the war against Iraq to the top of NATO's agenda. The summit was to focus on expansion and moderation of the alliance, but Mr. Bush has used his clout to make Iraq the dominant issue at the meeting. NATO Secretary General Lord George Robertson and the Liberal-dominated defence committees of the House of Commons and the Senate have all deplored Canada's $12-billion military budget, which represents only 1.1 per cent of gross domestic product spending, half the NATO average of 2.13. But Canadian officials argued the "pure GDP numbers is a pretty crude indicator" of Canada's military capabilities, noting the Canadian military has played a role in almost every major United Nations or NATO operation from Bosnia to the war in Afghanistan. Mr. Chrétien also picked up on that theme, saying the Americans appreciate the role that Canada has played in operations around the world. "The Americans always compliment when we participate with them. When we were in Kosovo, we were the third country with the greatest number of sorties and we were complimented by everyone there by the effectiveness of our troops. We did the same thing in Bosnia. In Afghanistan, our troops did very well," he said. Mr. Bush said NATO, devised as a static defence against the former Soviet Union, is outdated and its military forces are incapable of responding quickly to military threats outside Europe, such as Afghanistan. "When forces were needed quickly to operate in Afghanistan, NATO's options were limited," he said. "The allies need more special operations forces, better precision strike capabilities and more modern command structures. Few NATO members will have state-of-the-art capabilities in all of these areas, I recognize that, but every nation should develop some." The Senate defence committee recently called for a $4-billion annual increase in the Armed Forces budget, while Liberal MPs on the Commons defence committee have urged the prime minister not to sacrifice Canada's military to fund a social agenda. But officials close to Mr. Chrétien say he's reluctant to approve a substantial boost in spending for Canada's Armed Forces, preferring to pump money from the federal surplus into social programs and infrastructure improvements for cities. Mr. McCallum has been seeking a modest increase in the defence budget of $1 billion and is prepared to find savings of up to $250 million from within the Defence department, sources say. Since 1994, the government has reduced defence spending by 23 per cent and cut the Forces' regular personnel to 57,000 from 87,600 in 1990. Canada has the world's 54th-largest military and 77th-largest reserve force, even though it has the 34th-largest population and is a member of the Group of Seven industrialized nations. A bevy of military analysts, most recently the Council on Canadian Security in the 21st Century and the Atlantic Institute, have also warned Canada is at risk of being unable to defend itself unless it increases spending. Military experts say Canada needs to double its equipment budget to $3.5 billion annually just to replace aging equipment. Behind the scenes, Defence department officials readily acknowledge that military capability has suffered while other allies, in particular the United States, have made substantial improvements. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:13:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Max Winter Subject: A Post-100-Million-Dollar Inquiry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was wondering if, setting aside the recent 100-million-dollar gift to Poetry Magazine as a gift not to the many but to the few (as has been shown), I might send out a general inquiry as to the proper response to the statement, "There's not much money in poetry." (Which is usually a response to a vague statement of purpose, offered by way of being sociable or in response to the desperate question, "So what do you do?") This statement has a lot of close and distant cousins: the wide-eyed stare, accompanied by "But you can't make a living as a poet!"; the squintily ironic "Bet there's a lot of money in poetry..."; or the cordial nod and slight wrinkling of the brow, followed by "Ah yes, but what do you REALLY do?" Max Winter ps: I think I forgot to mention the distant relative, "You have to be kidding," which usually appears with a dropped jaw. Or the antagonistic uncle: "Is that all you do?" Or the expectant grandfather: "But what's your job-job?" Or the not-so-sympathetic sympathetic aunt, "It's a difficult time for that." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:38:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: "...back from injury..." ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone have any clues about the web site http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir ? (And what's its connection to poet Bill Luoma?) Various poet names turn up there: Laird Hunt, Juliana Spahr, Stroffolino, J. Gallagher, Barratier and Perchik... And my name appears twice there, once as the caption to a photograph of a gas mask [ :) ! ] (http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir/WqYcYAAAnGaGEE.html) and once as "Johnson and Darren Powell back from injury Jeffrey Jullich Johnson and Darren Powell back from injury". The site seems otherwise asyntactical or algorithm-generated, so I can't figure it out. Just curious. Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:12:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Virginia Reassures Herself With The Arguments Against Bishop Berkeley In-Reply-To: <000a01c28a99$95644100$7a96ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Parliamentary, my dear Bowering. I feel you should be addressed as "Sir >George", henceforth. > All kidding aside, I am thrilled for you. I had a pure, selfless moment. >It iis as if your whole life had grown a fitting arrowhead, come to rest >with the most satisfying Plop in a maple tree. May its sweet sap cover your >life like a toffee-apple. As ever, >Broms Dear Bromberg I am really pleased to hear such nice words from you, the Laureate of wine country. Speaking of which, keep tuned. Also: get your skinny ass up here soon! -- George Bowering Becomingly humble. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:22:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: "...back from injury..." ? In-Reply-To: <20021121223855.86943.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my understanding is that its a perl script that randomly assembles input from the poetics archive & elsewhere. mIEKAL On Thursday, November 21, 2002, at 04:38 PM, Jeffrey Jullich wrote: > Anyone have any clues about the web site > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir ? > (And what's its connection to poet Bill Luoma?) > Various poet names turn up there: Laird Hunt, Juliana > Spahr, Stroffolino, J. Gallagher, Barratier and > Perchik... > > And my name appears twice there, once as the caption > to a photograph of a gas mask [ :) ! ] > > (http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir/WqYcYAAAnGaGEE.html) > > and once as "Johnson and Darren Powell back from > injury Jeffrey Jullich Johnson and Darren Powell back > from injury". > > The site seems otherwise asyntactical or > algorithm-generated, so I can't figure it out. Just > curious. Thanks. > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:39:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: humans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII humans wearied weather tethered trappings rappings raging gauging gleaming harming humans men and women bend with barrow marrow's mourning churning craters slaughters smashing bashing buildings ailing angels spangled swerving curving carnage scarred and stalking harking hating deigning dying crying counted haunted hooded bloody booting shooting dark-shorn born with boneyards seared and screaming beaming blinded rited rhyming deeming deathbells wells are waiting baiting banging hanging humans doomed and diving thriving tearful wearied weather === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:52:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: <003001c29162$b29dbe20$455736d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Have you met said Collins? He must have a philosophy: all men (meaning >beings) have philo sophies, so, ergo, thou must consume G B's hat. Is that in the sense of "The philosophy here at Burger King . . . ."? -- George Bowering Becomingly humble. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:16:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: <003001c29162$b29dbe20$455736d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Richard, I think what is meant is that Collins doesn't have a very self-conscious philosophy. The way you put it, it seems like we have philosophies like we have brains. However, the yobs who go to the sports bar and cheer at the football hoards do not strike me as people having a "philosophy" in the robust sense. At least, not one worthy of discernment. It's one thing to be egalitarian; it's another to give people credit when all they are doing is breathing. Of course, one of the problems in having this discussion is that the most prominent American philosophy, pragmatism, is, in the words of Cornel a successful "evasion of philosophy." Saying you don't have a theory is american as apple pie. Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, richard.tylr wrote: > Have you met said Collins? He must have a philosophy: all men (meaning > beings) have philo sophies, so, ergo, thou must consume G B's hat. > Everyone..nay , in fact my cat has a philosophy: it has a philosophy of > being a cat and always going where its most dangerous to a human and it: so > even Mr Collins must have a philo sophy.... so you must comsume, partake of, > ingest, swallow, chew, crunch, munch, bite, tear at, savage, maul, and > othewise dispose of Monsieur Bowering's hat for which he must be compensated > or another hat replaced which is a reasonably complete simulacrum or > approximation of the hattedness of the lauriat or is it (lariat?) royal of > Greater Canada: or I'll set Jonah Lomu the rugby giant (Samoan-Kiwi) onto > you.... (albeit he has kidney problems he's probably much bigger than any of > us..and much younger.....and worth a lot more...in money terms ...) .... > Berrigan wrote bean spasms...now; put THAT to Bill Collins...that'll put the > wind up him! In more ways than one! I'll give you Billy Collins hasnt got a > Berrigan flosofy! Coarse e as! Judge that one.... Yours as ever. I havent > read anyting by Monsieur Collins so cant comment ...but he's certainly > copping some flak. Richard. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Damian Judge Rollison" > To: > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:43 PM > Subject: Re: on collins & canada > > > > > poetry...and so on. Mabe we should invite him to explain his philosophy > re > > > Berrigan on this List ...and hopefully he wouldnt get "flamed"....maybe. > > > > Richard, if Collins really does have a "philosophy re > > Berrigan" I'll eat George Bowering's hat. > > > > Make mine Pepsi, > > Damian > > > > > > > > "Life is Never boring when you are Tarzan of the Apes > > e.g. You step out from behind a bush > > and you say > > 'Yes, I am M'sieur Tarzan'" > > > > -- "Tambourine Life" > > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > damian judge rollison > > department of english > > university of virginia > > djr4r@virginia.edu > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:55:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: I KNOW THE CLAY In-Reply-To: <6380B4BF1BC6D411909A00B0D078B976033A1777@CBDC3NYO.com.collegeboard.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I KNOW THE CLAY I know the clay, the extreme center, they said the surface. the earths=20= pressure masses the dirt, the extreme center, they said the bedrock and=20= mass psychosis goes with mass inhabitancies. the earths pressure east=20 of madness, west of insanity. that=92s as far as the stories go. = lunatics=20 and the tiny little pores, really tiny little pores send vibrations=20 trough the centers extreme. they say lump, the one that attacks in an=20 all out declaration of details. really it is the insurgency of details=20= on central residential particles. all talk all bedrock, through the=20 east of truth. an hour in and the largely caught. a surface that works=20= through the clay to the annotation in mass psychosis, a schizophrenic=20 hypothesis. I mean the masses undertake the dirt as madness, the=20 centers extreme beyond extreme. they completely said, =93truth be it = free=20 unto the dirt, the bedrock through and through lunatics all the time=20 every time.=94 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:58:30 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: bowering on collins: George Bowering's Hat and ComplexSimplex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The point is that both difficulty (opaquenes etc or absorption) and "simplicity" are tactics or strategies as they say.....if I think of Chess: against certain opponents I used to simplify and win the (deceptively!) easy endings with attacking players (who got bored by the apparent simplicity!) whereas against a more cautious player I would attack and against someone who loved analysing and analysing I used to play moves that required several reasonable and interesting alternatives: thus usally ensuring I got a time advantage!!!! But the parallel from Chess to literature or even science is that a poet may know that a) he/she likes complexity (not always) b) sometimes the simple (deceptively) is a "winner" eg in Langpo the "trilobites" thing is it by the "jazzy" Clark Coolidge (?) and somehwere in between I've just been reading Fair Realism by Barbara Guest which is a bit more resisitive but as they say not so much maybe as Armantrout or Bernstein etc...and some of the "late modernist" poets are complex in the sense they have a 'complex message' whereas the "complexity" of others is part of a methodology: my feeling is that of the "simple" poems that I think are awesome there is eg Blake's "Tyger" (but that is not as "simple as it seems) and the "simplicity" or the more direct language of Williams (again not as "simple" as it seems) are all strategies directed both by the writer (player)) and also the social-cultural-political-historical situation he/she is in and her/his own sense of what is required or what the writer feels must be written by that artist...people say things like that, like simplify things...yes but the process is often complex (yet when all steps are seen is not) so a major poem for me must be rich,strange, complex and simple (if required) and I think that that which has multiplex meaning levels and challenges is most appealing to me: and go beyond the sum of these "steps" or parts; in fact all thsi is know n and has been talked about by otthers from Pound and Eliot to Empson the Langpos and many many others...eg given that one can enjoy Browning's "Sordello" (or the idea of it ) or Geoffrey Hill and also J H Prynne and maybe even monsieur b collins as well as: who...me(!), Bill Smith, yourself, the langpos, ted berrigan of the Sonnets and his "card poems", Sondheim (or at least the idea of Sondheim),and those poets publishing on this List every day.... I think there is a danger for some people to obssess on puzzles and number crunching and symbolising and references and analogies and structures which is ok - it can be great: eg Zukofsky and multiple others - as long as the result isnt someone who jumps off a bridge: its ok if the personal life is kept reasonably direct and "simple" ('bad' word)...Ron Silliman strikes me as someone who can have showers and think clean thoughts about John Ashbery and talk to his kids and also write the Blogg and possibly is a considerable poet (oops another bad word!) and also talk nonsense to me back channell in a friendly and (is it only a?) humouring way, whereas Nick Piombino mutters darkly about "that dammed Taylor with his crazy politics and his chutzpah!" and so on and George Bowering (who invented the word "chutzpah") can have his hat and it be eaten or masticated, yet write some (apparently, I havent had the pleasure) wonderful poems....he is, I have heard, SIMPLY the greatest poet to have ever been be-hatted in Canada......in fact my friend Leicester Kyle (an ex Anglican Priest) who inhabits the Buller area of the South Island NZ has also been made a kind of poet lauriat by the local council who were excited to find a "real poet" in their area and are paying for a book or so for him to publish!! ...so even for such as Leicester who also always wears a black hat and looks quite cool as the kids say today: and often black jeans and a white beard and blue eyes...is making his way towards the complexsimplicity of being a behatted and significant poet in NZ. Whether he will ne a collingianical or a sillymaniacal poet only time can reveal.....despite or because of his hat. Regards, Richard Taylor. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "dcmb" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:17 AM Subject: Re: bowering on collins > we should notice the careful phrasing "more difficult than they appear to > be." Appearances can be deceiving. DB > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Quartermain > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:01 PM > Subject: Re: bowering on collins > > > >On 20 November mIEKAL aND wrote: > >>> In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good > >>>poems >> tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." > >> george did you really say that? > >------ > >I sure hope you did, George, it's truly brilliant and pithy. Who, after > >all, would want poems to make things simpler than they are. President > >Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. > > > >======================================= > >"If you write about what you know, you will keep on writing the same > >thing, and you will never know any more than you do now." > > George Bowering. A Magpie Life. > > ======================================= > >Peter Quartermain > >846 Keefer Street > >Vancouver B.C. > >Canada V6A 1Y7 > > > >voice 604 255 8274 > >fax 604 255 8204 > >quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca > >======================================= > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:04:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: poems on Pepsi and dexedrine In-Reply-To: <20021121052810.54145.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >The negative effects of Pepsi can make you > > anxious > excitable > restless > dizzy > irritable > unable to concentrate > gastrointestinal (GI) aches > headaches that don't seem to go away > trouble with sleeping I get most of those from good poetry. gb -- George Bowering Becomingly humble. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:46:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: === MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === k21% pico zz UW PICO(tm) 4.2 File: zz Modified fearful weather tethered trappings rappings on glass massive storming harming women men and children filled with sorrow morrow's burning churning waters slaughters crashing smashing Modified stating dying haunted bloody muddy booting hooting warnings born with boneyards charred and screaming dreaming blinded minding rhyming timing deathbells hells are waiting baiting angels strangling cultures vultures diving thriving tearful fearful weather Modified fearful weather - tethered trappings - rappings massy - glassy storming - harming women - men and children - bend with sorrow - morrow's burning - churning waters - slaughters crashing - smashing buildings - wilding angels - jangled swerving - curving rockets - sockets sparking - harking mating - stating dying - Save modified buffer (ANSWERING "No" WILL DESTROY CHANGES) ? No harking hating deigning dying crying counted haunted hoody bloody booting hooting dark-horn born with boneyards scarred and screaming beaming blinded rited rhyming deeming deathbells wells are waiting baiting banging straYou have to leave in 5 minutes. vultures diving thriving tearful fearful weather scarred and stalking one more minute! harking hating deigning dying crying counted haunted hoody bloody booting hooting dark-horn born with boneyards seared and screaming beaming blinded rited rhyming deeming deathbells wells are waiting baiting banging wrangling women doomed and diving thriving tearful wearied weather scarred and stalking harking hating deigning dying crying counted haunted hooded bloody booting shooting dark-shorn born with boneyards seared and screaming beaming blinded rited rhyming deeming deathbells wells are waitiTime to leave! baiting banging wrangling women doomed and diving thriving tearful wearied weather Modified humansTime to leave! wearied weather tethered trappings rappings raging guaging gleaming harming humans bend with barrow marrow's mourning churning craters slaughters smashing bashing buildings ailing angels spangled swerving curving carnage scarred and stalking harking hating [ Wrote 38 lines ] tethered trappings rappings raging 0: mappings 1: rapping 2: rapping s 3: rapping-s 4: rap pings 5: rap-pings 6: raspings 7: trappings 8: wrappings rappings raging guaging gleaming 0: gaging 1: gauging bend with barrow marrow's mourning 0: marrows shooting dark-shorn born with boneyards 0: bone yards 1: bone-yards rited rhyming deeming deathbells 0: death bells 1: death-bells ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:18:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: Re: pepsi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii AnselmBerrigan@AOL.COM wrote: > Yeah, probably. But the signs didn't show in the home. I don't suppose any of the folks who like to point to his habits could ever fathom the reality of his being a terrific father. < Anselm, My Pepsi post was ~in no way~ meant to impugn Ted Berrigan's poetry or his life. My post-text was meant solely as an ironic, art-for-art's-sake, autonomous, absurdist joke that in no way ever had Ted Berrigan (or reality) in mind, and cast no aspersions against him or anyone else . . . . . . including Caleb Bradham, the inventor of Pepsi. If my silly irony left any doubt as to my intentions or there being any further "target," that's just the fault of my own poor writing and I accept responsibility while offering apology. (I in fact am not well-read in Ted Berrigan's poetry and had no idea as to how Collins' remark is or is not borne out in its autobiographical particulars.) The "punch-line" I meant in the humor of my post was that it was terrified by Pepsi but said nothing against dexedrine. The idea of citing "Pepsi and dexedrine" at all struck me as funny, as a form, that pairing of the ubiquitously innocent (soda/pop) and a dangerous controlled substance in one conjunction. Like litotes and hyperbole linked back-to-back. I thought it would be funny to elaborate that trope further (Collins himself on Schweppes and aspirin, Ginsberg on Japanese tea and bee pollen extract), so uninformative and peripheral to comment upon someone's poetry by commenting on the poet's diet and under-the-counter intake. The reductivism of a poetic value based on bottled soft drink and pills. Richard Howard's poems written on--- Snapple and nasal decongestant. Lewis LaCook's poems written on A & W Root Beer and cough lozenges. Keri Edwards' poems written on Dr. Brown's Diet Cream Soda and breath mints. Alice Quinn's poems written on Slim Fast and Prozac. Tina Brown Celona's poems written on Yoo-Hoo chocolate drink and Altoids. My own poems written on Celestial Seasonings peppermint tea and Clarinex. So, no offense intended. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:22:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: "...back from injury..." ? In-Reply-To: <20021121223855.86943.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I think Bill Luoma's on this list, but anyway -- this site=20 is, or used to be, his PeaceNik project, hosted by the=20 Institute for Advanced Technology in the Humanities (where=20 I used to work). There've been some changes since the last=20 time I visited -- it's now called the Peace Server, I guess=20 -- but I believe it culls text and images from the net on=20 the fly in response to user "search" input -- one of the=20 sources he uses being the Poetics Archive.=20 On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:38:55 -0800 Jeffrey Jullich=20 wrote: > Anyone have any clues about the web site > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir ? > (And what's its connection to poet Bill Luoma?) > Various poet names turn up there: Laird Hunt, Juliana > Spahr, Stroffolino, J. Gallagher, Barratier and > Perchik... >=20 > And my name appears twice there, once as the caption > to a photograph of a gas mask [ :) ! ] >=20 > (http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir/WqYcYAAAnGaGEE.html) >=20 > and once as "Johnson and Darren Powell back from > injury Jeffrey Jullich Johnson and Darren Powell back > from injury". >=20 > The site seems otherwise asyntactical or > algorithm-generated, so I can't figure it out. Just > curious. Thanks. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus =96 Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu=20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:09:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: "...back from injury..." ? In-Reply-To: <20021121223855.86943.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:38 PM 11/21/02 -0800, "Jeffrey Jullich" wrote: >Anyone have any clues about the web site >http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir ? All I know is some funny shit when I see it. And that shit = funny. It's made up of the things we are saying when we send these emails to each other! I was about to ask the moderator to withdraw me, but now that I see what I would be missing -- I even had a gracious farewell message all devised. "I still believe in Poetics, etc." What I really believe in though is cracking up& losing my shit, wherever I can get it. The French call it "cumming." The knack of making others laugh rarely comes from happy sources. Which is what makes it so SWEET! thanks whomever --Bill? LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:33:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: Re: "...back from injury..." ? In-Reply-To: <20021121223855.86943.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Anyone have any clues about the web site > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/adir ? > (And what's its connection to poet Bill Luoma?) > Various poet names turn up there: Laird Hunt, Juliana > Spahr, Stroffolino, J. Gallagher, Barratier and > Perchik... > > And my name appears twice there, once as the caption > to a photograph of a gas mask [ :) ! ] from the site's readme file at http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~luoma/peace/readme.txt --- NewsMaker 1.0 09/02/02 a psuedo-random text-image generator written in C++ with a JSP-like interface called a PrePage. See "PrePageDoc.doc" for instructions on how to create a PrePage. The NewsMaker is in effect an http 1.1 scraper. It runs as a server listening on a well known port and accepts requests from http clients. The server then spawns a NewsMaker thread to service the request. The response is generated by selecting random keywords from news.google.com. Then the thread uses these keywords as the basis for an "or" query on www.google.com, images.google.com, and news.google.com. The resulting google pages are scraped for links. Then a percentage of those links are opened and scraped for links, images, and paragraphs. The thread then builds a random response by mixing together these elements. On average, a NewsMaker thread reads in 1 Mb of html from 50 websites and returns a response to the client within three seconds. The application is currently built out in debug mode with heavy logging, so these figures could be improved upon somewhat. --- You can generate new pages at: http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~luoma/ All pages are archived and stored.... brandon --- http://bannerart.org/ http://texturl.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:32:26 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: YARD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this just in (and apologies for multiposting): YARD reading November 30th @ the Auburn Saloon 1st ST and 8th AVE SW 7:00 pm this time around we are all implicated, crested and not-written. it is a symbol inside out. non. and we are fortunate to have such a night as this: Trevor Speller: fresh from his galapagos safari, Trevor promises to dazzle an already spell-bound many with his dry martini talents loosely assembled under the moniker-- for you, a moon-sized sentence (ed: he demanded more hyphens. I've argued him down to several). Larissa Lai: when the clock strikes it is unfit to ask-- "and so was that perfume yours or am I an eloquent tachometer?" maybe if we ask nicely and with subtle insistence we will all shine from our seats as she reads from her recently published and highly acclaimed novel, _Salt Fish Girl_(Thomas Allen). ps: who's bringing the durian fruit? Carol Malyon: the rumours are all true. Carol makes her way to Calgary with _Colville's People_(Mercury) just in time to make the Auburn sing. and to boot-- the december installment of YARD will have as its purpose the idea of giving. collaborations, covers, and culinary exhibitionism are all highly reccommended. stay tuned for details. any questions or comments? let me know. jason christie jasonchristie615@hotmail.com 403-237-8519 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:15:33 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: on collins & canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, It seems to me Collins is drawing such contempt because he is the poet laureate. Why contempt, rather than indifference, is that not what you are asking? Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:14:55 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: POETS for PEACE, Sunday, Nov 24 Comments: To: whpoets@dept.english.upenn.edu. Comments: cc: info@artsanctuary.org, John.X.Krick@gsk.com, joris@albany.edu, kturco@att.net, prev@erols.com, Lairdhunt@aol.com, LBoss79270@aol.com, Linda@cavalcadeofpoetry.com, zothom@msn.com, jill_magi@hotmail.com, marlyn@comcast.net, nemunoz@hotmail.com, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG, psa@poetrysociety.org, rjones@prisonsociety.org, riggsda@drexel.edu, robinsbookstore@comcast.net, rogerbonair@hotmail.com, ron.silliman@gte.net, kathylou@WORLDNET.ATT.NET, stthompson@mindspring.com, HT6ix@aol.com, jblum23@erols.com, vfox@prodigy.net, Phylliswat@aol.com, Treebard@aol.com, Vgdp@aol.com, askliterary@waltwhitmancenter.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interested in Peace? Then try PREEMPTIVE POETRY: There will be a Poets for Peace Reading, THIS Sunday, November 24, 2 PM at the Ethical Society 1906 Rittenhouse Square, Philadelphia, PA Herman Beavers, Stephen Berg, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Kristine Grow, Bob Perelman, Gil Ott, Kerry Sherin, Susan Stewart, Larry Robin, Alicia Askenase and Leonard Gontarek will speak/read at the event. This event is free and for everyone with an interest in Peace; Tell your students, friends, colleagues & forward to those who care! Further information, directions: Leonard Gontarek 215-386-7171 / gontarekl@aol.com; Alicia Askenase/ askealicia@aol.com Please support this inspiring and important event! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:56:26 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: "...back from injury..." ? In-Reply-To: <20021121223855.86943.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jeffrey Jullich writes: I Reply: Bill Luoma put this up, it looks like to me. So, even if my name is spelled wrong (if this is supposed to be my name?), I'm quite happy to be in the company of these poets. (Not really something I can put on my cv though, is it? Alas, such demons plague me.) Luoma's Note on the Site: This Peace Server is the only Peace Server In this bad area and time I urge you to go for helping. For example, on my peaceServer, you can gain a true understating of the current politics of the wide world. Go there for this question. This peace server will write short essays for your own text. Type into the box for your mind a phrase that will be gotten. bye and This peace is not intended to remain unmodified in your "frontal in- box". love from, Bill Luoma JGallaher "How has the human spirit ever survived the terrific literature with which it has had to contend?" --Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:18:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: O-7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed dewy from a foamy vine from a laden hand hands you this cup away from him, son- in-law grace hands this cup from one to another win God's favor for another for the victorious Olympia at Pytho you, favored you, pugilist you, straight from the Father _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:40:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Ted Berrigan Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > there's such a manic kindness glwing from those > poems, which is what really touched me about them from > the very beginning...& one can learn a great deal > about living by reading mr berrigan's work... lewis lacook This is a sensitive reading of Ted Berrigan. I knew him a bit as I attended his readings at the Poetry Project early on and also his workshop in 1967. Since his poetry was then still mostly unavailable I went to the 42cd street library and copied out many of his sonnets by hand. It warms me to hear and see that the essence of the man can still be evoked from the poems long after he left us. In his workshops Ted advised poets who wanted to be actively involved in the poetry world to give readings. This was challenging for me as I was intensely shy, yet his encouragement got me to push on. Recently I began to put together a tape of selections of poetry readings including some of Ted's for Tom Kelly who does a poetry radio show for WKCR. Tom, who attends Columbia, is writing his undergraduate thesis on Ted Berrigan. I have a hunch that Ted would have very much enjoyed this poetry list. He seemed to have relished the public/private dichotomies and paradoxes of being a poet. Part of his magic was to be able to communicate in his witty, densely structured poems not only many of his ideas and experiences, but also, by means of a unique combining of form and content, gave us access (if we have, like lewis, an ear) to something of the flavor and texture of his presence and, perhaps, his very being. And the thing is, I still miss him. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:11:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: The opposite of memory Comments: cc: wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It's a taller walk now that I've gotten to begin myself. Again: when you put me down on scalds pavement from my flesh in reels, the jig remands a portal to the young man bleeding black and long hair all over his stoned clothes. Foreshortened to emphasize the backdrop you printed with such deliberation all over my face and hands, we see his gait across those inversions of faith you sang shrilly into his baldnesses. That night you didn't call because you were with someone else: you thought he was dead. My bones scold sidewalks you've forgotten, or still stand still. 11:05 AM 11/22/02 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:16:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: on collins & canada In-Reply-To: <141.34262a7.2b0f0965@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I thought Collins was a metaphor? Plus, who cares? Why spend so much time on a poet who's poetry you don't like? Next. At 11:15 PM 11/21/2002, you wrote: >Richard, > >It seems to me Collins is drawing such contempt because he is the poet >laureate. Why contempt, rather than indifference, is that not what you are >asking? > >Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:42:20 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: 100 mill. & Ted Berrigan I live 2 blocks from the Gem Spa...and every time i pass the corner of 2nd and St. Mark's... i think of Berrigan..here's an egg-cream to you, Ted... The Lilly grant hopefully will reach the folk...like that other great act of altruism....the establishment of the Carnegie Libraries...there's nothing like carring into the main st of anywhere small town U.S.A...& seeing on main streets these proud beautiful structures..a gift of the work of endless labor and the genius of accumulated capital...it's a strange world, Horatio,....dare we dream...harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:18:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <000601c2911a$beb1dd60$8a3a5786@diogenes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for some reason Im not able to let this go. it seems like an off the cuff simplification to say that good poems often make things more difficult, maybe even inferring that "difficult poetry" (which we all know & love) is intrinsically better. its about where a reader is coming from & what use they can make out of the experience of reading. for me an iowa writer's workshop poem is far more difficult to contend with that a poem by Bruce Andrews. Aram Saroyan's poem "eyeye" has to be one of the simplest poems on the planet, its beauty & "goodness" having little to do with a notion of difficulty. by the way George, its remarkable that youve this opportunity, now if only a nation's literature can merge with a world's literature. mIEKAL On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 10:59 PM, Peter Quartermain wrote: > On 20 November mIEKAL aND wrote: >>> In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good >>> poems >> tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." >> george did you really say that? > ------ > I sure hope you did, George, it's truly brilliant and pithy. Who, after > all, would want poems to make things simpler than they are. President > Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:04:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Berlow Subject: I'm not invading Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 Nov 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > A bevy of military analysts, most recently the Council on Canadian > Security in the 21st Century and the Atlantic Institute, have also warned > Canada is at risk of being unable to defend itself unless it increases > spending. Defend itself from whom? The Native Americans? Michigan? New York? Quebec? Eskimos? Microsoft? Personally, I'm not planning to invade Canada... -- Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:26:17 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TOM COLLINS: A Cento --from the original by Gabriel Gudding forget the soup and the distant churchyard try to see the fields they are all I have as if they spilled from a farm house close to the grease waves deep in the soup I will wave to the farm girl suck them up those fields maybe I will put my eye down riding the soup-sheen the small beads of grease orange as valvoline what a lank silo of love will meet her ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:41:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Re: I'm not invading Canada In-Reply-To: <3DDE2B56.26699.3B370B@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII however if BC wants to joing Western Washington and northern California in a secessionist movement, we're all ears. Cascadia here we come! Robert -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Joshua Berlow wrote: > On 22 Nov 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: > > > A bevy of military analysts, most recently the Council on Canadian > > Security in the 21st Century and the Atlantic Institute, have also warned > > Canada is at risk of being unable to defend itself unless it increases > > spending. > > Defend itself from whom? The Native Americans? Michigan? New > York? Quebec? Eskimos? Microsoft? Personally, I'm not planning to > invade Canada... > > -- > Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:07:46 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: Combine with mine. The Map. The Bearded Man Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Combine with mine. The Map. The Bearded Man come bi (ne)=20 with mi (ne/d) and bi (nd) my=20 love the red/read rose has nothing on the Song of=20 Songs ex alter William Shake(s) (th') speare et prest (h)er John's id ea(r) and there (n)other matter &/or heart of which to be or not to be discovered. Collision with Galileo. Remember this? Leo da V's char- coal man pinned across the vellum hesita- tion & traced around with compass or silver plate(d) consternation fixed a globe the world circum outstretched arms, legs. An Indian god/dess un fathomable. just what he meant bi this. Doubt not Leonardo da V's magician Ship(s) sail crucial galaxies of fearful fearlessness Fret not the fretworks!=20 care less ness. There.=20 No charge if we reproduce the whole=20 charcoal history. Man, his=20 fingers wedged into corners. The square boxed him in? Kept him on a straight, or diagonal? Stretches Nor'east-Nor'west the map. The = bearded man. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:52:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: $100 million to the chosen 100... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i don't believe mself in trickle-down theories (of economics, what have you) so i have a strong hunch that a tight lid will be put on the lilly largesse... i would of course love to be proved wrong here, but even if a few poor slobs (and 100 in this case constitutes a few) end up with some quotient of the proceeds, the shame of it for me will be what this MIGHT have amounted to for u.s. literary culture across the board (as others have pondered)... robert, armchair pragmatics as non- or anti-theory, you bet!... i love pragmatism, don't love what has often been done to/with it... i could relate here a little story about a flamewar i was at the epicenter of on the old megabyte u (MBU) list---my first entry into cyberspace, no less, debating with a comp practitioner of some note who insisted that his pragmatic-empirical approach to the field constituted no theory at all, as it wasn't falsifiable etc... my response eventually took the regrettable form of suggesting that this stance was utter rubbish, in at least two ways... i'm pretty sure dewey (e.g.) was turning over in his grave, in any case... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:16:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: I'm not invading Canada In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>however if BC wants to joing Western Washington and northern California in >>a secessionist movement, we're all ears. Cascadia here we come! Whatever happened to Oregon? ======================================= Peter Quartermain ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:34:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Rosa Virginiana Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed gird now leaves runnel sweetness clouded as Virginia, each name a light human guzzle days narrow and open open and heaped wide dark pristine crumbs crumble darkly pristine obedience plain as day- old crusts thrown to the words compression sporting a squirt decorum holds good all these years, dignity scored somewhere along your rib noon's sake left to shine upon foliagekind, now you see she rose 3 weeks soul lives off sin and if she did it then she'll probably do it again second verse business hates direction O no, let's go please act like you seen a poem before you're being watched some people will do anything for the Academy Lagado ocelot- -99 eyes when it comes to the coin, only the eagle is against you Rosa Virginiana but the true name of all this is ROTHSWITHA VON GADERSHEIM'S DOUBTFUL FLUID and the name of that line is SLAVE MARKET Ginny bewildered beyond poetry bee swarm preceding law courts cannibals take a loooooooong time to come around to the light did you say EARTH or did I just catch the tail-end of something 36th Street too far for a miracle stand up pleasing from the earth though coarse, nine times out of ten the type of olive branch in his beak animal bit O so unfit the ball fragment was seen luxurious gather out of the building readiest silver vulgar ringer the perfect hue so soon island leaves are the homes of heaven bask on flat two colors thickness will stand weather bell piece possibility of earnest unawares, untrue as aelectrae mae kind stand dish consistency far down subdues the fifth vaulting you're V. spatial to me conceived a miraculous mathematics light tracery principles of social order characterless positivism the chief preliminary where there may be a world hour sand hem contrivances bound hand and foot adjoining loss rashness schematizes callousness, my middle way slipped under the door get the word wide awake bulk of the gimmick long road against the windows professional tail life flattered all by himself tell us supermarket fruit excruciates us still don't tell us that the hereditary is easy to restrain X (his mark) gird now leaves runnel sweetness clouded as Virginia, each name a light human guzzle days narrow and open open and heaped wide dark pristine crumbs crumble darkly pristine obedience plain as day- old crusts thrown to the words compression sporting a squirt decorum holds good all these years, dignity scored somewhere along your rib noon's sake left to shine upon foliagekind, now you see she rose 3 weeks soul lives off sin and if she did it then she'll probably do it again second verse business hates direction O no, let's go please act like you seen a poem before you're being watched some people will do anything for the Academy Lagado hour sand hem contrivances bound hand and foot adjoining loss rashness schematizes callousness, my middle way slipped under the door get the word wide awake bulk of the gimmick long road against the windows professional tail life flattered all by himself tell us supermarket fruit excruciates us still don't tell us that the hereditary is easy to restrain ______________________________________________ stand up pleasing from the earth though coarse, nine times out of ten the type of olive branch in his beak animal bit O so unfit the ball fragment was seen luxurious gather out of the building readiest silver vulgar ringer the perfect hue so soon island leaves are the homes of heaven bask on flat two colors thickness will stand weather bell piece possibility of earnest unawares, untrue as aelectrae mae kind stand dish consistency far down subdues the fifth vaulting you're V. spatial to me conceived a miraculous mathematics light tracery principles of social order characterless positivism the chief preliminary where there may be a world hour sand hem contrivances bound hand and foot adjoining loss rashness schematizes callousness, my middle way slipped under the door get the word wide awake bulk of the gimmick long road against the windows professional tail life flattered all by himself tell us supermarket fruit excruciates us still don't tell us that the hereditary is easy to restrain _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:53:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: Re: Buy Nothing Day contest for bannerart.org / "Buy Nothing Day" concours pour bannerart.org In-Reply-To: <004a01c2901d$bd18b6c0$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable geoffery-- some beautiful stuff here. egads, though, the files are HUGE! I really like "Call of the Computer" best- brandon --- http://bannerart.org/ http://texturl.net/ > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Gatza > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 5:48 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Buy Nothing Day contest for bannerart.org / "Buy Nothing > Day" concours pour bannerart.org > > > Hi Brandon, > > Give this a try :-) > > http://www.daemen.edu/pages/ggatza/life > > Best, Geoffrey > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Barr" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:09 PM > Subject: Buy Nothing Day contest for bannerart.org / "Buy Nothing Day" > concours pour bannerart.org > > > > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > Hello everyone > > > > In connection with Buy Nothing Day (November 29th in America and Cana= da, > > November 30th in Europe), an annual international event held to prote= st > the > > unoffical opening day of holiday shopping, the Banner Art Collective = is > > holding a contest for the best presentation of net.art and > subvertisements > > in online advertising space. > > > > Entries will be accepted up until November 28th (the day before Buy > Nothing > > Day state side). The winner will be announced on Buy Nothing Day > (November > > the 29th), both on the site and to the press. A Grand Prize of $0 (U= SD) > > will be distributed to the winner, and the winning banner will > be featured > > on the front page of the Banner Art Collective's website for one mont= h. > All > > entries will be added to bannerart.org's permanent collection of net.= art > in > > advertising space. > > > > To submit work, go to www.bannerart.org, review the requirements and > > limitations detailed on the site, and use the submission form > upload your > > work for review. Please mark in the "special requirements" field on = the > > upload form that your submission is for the contest and not just for > normal > > entry on the site's continuing bannerart exhibition, > submissions for which > > are continuing as usual. > > > > Best, > > Brandon Barr & Garrett Lynch > > Banner Art Collective > > > > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > > > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > Salut tous > > > > Au cause de "Buy Nothing Day" - achete rien jour (Novembre le > 29 en Etais > > Unis et Canada, Novembre 30 en Europe), un fete international > contre cette > > saison de Noel qui est de plus en plus un vacances commercialise, le > Banner > > Art Collective annonce un concours pour le meilleur oeuvre de net.art= et > > subvertisement (un travaille contre publicite) dans un espace > de publicite > > internet. > > > > Soumissions sont accepte jusque a le 28 de Novembre (le jour avant "B= uy > > Nothing day" en Etais Unis). Le gagnant va ete annonce le 29 > de Novembre, > > sur le site et le internet. Un grand prix de $0 (USD) (soit 0=A4) va= ete > > donne a le gagnant et le banniere va ete expose sur le page d'acceuil= de > le > > Banner Art Collective pour un duree de un mois. Tous soumissions va = ete > > ajoute a le collection permanent. > > > > Pour soumis un travaille, alle a le site www.bannerart.org, lit > le regles > de > > soumission et utilise le formulaire pour charge votre travaille sur l= e > > serveur. Dans le formulaire fait attention a marquer le travaille 'p= our > le > > concours' dans le champs "special requirements". Soumissions > pour le expo > > de bannerart en general continue comme toujours. > > > > a+ > > Brandon Barr & Garrett Lynch > > Banner Art Collective > > > > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:13:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: NOBODADDIES: A Journal of Piracy In-Reply-To: <6380B4BF1BC6D411909A00B0D078B976033A1777@CBDC3NYO.com.collegeboard.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOBODADDIES: A Journal of Piracy NOBODADDIES is returning to publishing. Our first issue of the new series will be published in the early summer 2003. If you are not familiar with Nobodaddies and would like to support the journal as well as gather a sense of the kind of work that we have published in the past, send $5 for each issue (numbers 2 and 3 are still available). Make checks payable to Doug Rice. In this first issue back we are particularly interested in work that questions boundaries of discipline, genre, and discourse. We like work that calls into question contemporary theorizing of the postmodern moment; work that is inappropriate. Essays that theorize plagiarism, appropriation, allusion, critifiction, pirating of other texts. Nomadic textualities that flee any sens of home and domesticity. Essays on individual writers (Acker, Burroughs, Doubiago, Brossard, Maso, any of the modernists), essays on music and film (in the styles or against the styles of Frith, McRobbie, Marcus, Savage, and on and on......on directors Godard, Ackerman, and others), essays on theorists (Deleuze, Kristeva, Irigaray, Cixous, Derrida, Foucault, and on and on and on), essays on photography .... We are also looking for fiction and for B&W artwork. In the past we have published David Blair, Takayuki Tatsumi, Lidia Yuknavitch, Larry McCaffery, Laurie Weeks, Rebecca Brown, Ray Federman, and others Break rules Our website will be up in early December 2002. Snail mail: Doug Rice, editor Nobodaddies English Dept. California State University, Sacramento 6000 J Street Sacramento CA 95819-6075 email: submissions sent by email should be sent as a word attachment or cut and pasted into body of email message. In the subject line, put Nobodaddies submission. Deadline for submission: March 1, 2003 Assistant Professor of English California State University, Sacramento 6000 J Street Sacramento CA 95819-6075 (916) 278-5989 h ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:33:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Poetry in the News Again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed **Colleges Tightening Oversight of Parties for Poetry Recruits** by Mike Freakman Buffalo, Nov. 22 (AHP2 News) -- After a series of embarrassing incidents and criminal investigations involving alcohol and theory at recruiting parties for coveted high school poets in recent years, some universities have begun to rewrite the rules for entertaining recruits and are tightening their oversight. These generally unofficial parties will reach a peak over the next few weeks as hundreds of high school prospects visit major poetry colleges for two days, trying to decide where to enroll next fall. Some university officials, who had been criticized for failing to supervise the parties, acknowledge that they felt compelled to take action after being embarrassed by misbehavior associated with recruiting parties. Earlier this year, for example, the University of Alabama was placed on probation by the National Collegiate Poetry Association (N.C.P.A.) for violations that included inviting theorists onto campus to entertain high school poets at parties. A poetry recruit on an official visit to the University of Florida was initially charged with plagiarism and disorderly thinking two years ago for an incident that occurred after he attended a party with heavy theory. At the University of Michigan, a coveted high school senior was entertained by Michigan poets with alcohol and theorists in a Detroit hotel suite six years ago. When the university learned about the party, Michigan's president felt compelled to apologize to the recruit's parents. At Michigan State University, visiting high school prose poets were entertained by theorists at a Detroit nightclub and other recruits taken to a casino, where they practiced writing chance-derived works, leading the N.C.P.A. to put the prose poetry program on probation for two years in 1998. With the image of college poetry having been tarnished in recent years by a number of incidents in which poets were charged with plagiarism and copyright infringement, some critics contend that recruiting parties have become a particularly insidious part of the problem. "These parties are a major problem," said Thames Dumberthanthat, president of the University of Michigan from 1988 to 1996. "And I can't say for certain, but I think they are a problem at a number of universities, mainly because these are high school kids away from home and there is a total lack of supervision and structure. I was shocked when I heard about how they were handled. They basically turn these kids loose and hope a great poem will come out." Though the parties are usually unofficial, they are often part of high school poets' N.C.P.A.-sanctioned two-day visits to campuses. The high school seniors usually get to meet critics and poets, go to readings, and attend classes. At night, they are usually entertained by college poets hoping to impress them. Recruiting parties can be harmless fun, but they can also cross the line. Players sometimes provide wine and theory to visiting high school seniors, according to interviews with former poets, critics, law enforcement officials and prose writers who have attended recruiting parties. Sometimes, too, these people say, the older poets arrange for recruits to have access to poems by George Bowering and David Bromige. "These kids are not prepared for the effect of this kind of poetry, which is provided without any historical context or information about the importance of Canadian national identity for both poets," said Dan Joyisme, President of the League for Poetic Improvement. While the parties carry some legitimacy as part of university-sanctioned campus visits, they are seldom supervised by university officials and often take place off campus. As such, critics say, these parties carry murky expectations for those who attend, often in a raucous atmosphere with sensibilities dulled by wine or metaphor. "The long range problem," said Mr. Dumberthanthat, "is that poetic intoxication will lead these young people to think of poetry as a free pass to avoid serious pursuit of college athletics." He noted that colleges with Division I poetry programs often lowered athletic standards for top poets in an effort to keep them enrolled. In the past, many university officials have argued that they were not responsible for misbehavior that occurred late at night in unofficial settings. But many law enforcement officials, community officials and leaders of poetry improvement groups contended that the colleges were at fault for failing to properly supervise poets and their high school guests. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:52:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Poetry in the News Again MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've you've got an alumnus who giving away cars, I'll go back to school. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Bernstein" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 4:33 PM Subject: Poetry in the News Again > **Colleges Tightening Oversight of Parties for Poetry Recruits** > > by Mike Freakman > > Buffalo, Nov. 22 (AHP2 News) -- After a series of embarrassing incidents > and criminal investigations involving alcohol and theory at recruiting > parties for coveted high school poets in recent years, some universities > have begun to rewrite the rules for entertaining recruits and are > tightening their oversight. > > These generally unofficial parties will reach a peak over the next few > weeks as hundreds of high school prospects visit major poetry colleges for > two days, trying to decide where to enroll next fall. Some university > officials, who had been criticized for failing to supervise the parties, > acknowledge that they felt compelled to take action after being embarrassed > by misbehavior associated with recruiting parties. > > Earlier this year, for example, the University of Alabama was placed on > probation by the National Collegiate Poetry Association (N.C.P.A.) for > violations that included inviting theorists onto campus to entertain high > school poets at parties. A poetry recruit on an official visit to the > University of Florida was initially charged with plagiarism and disorderly > thinking two years ago for an incident that occurred after he attended a > party with heavy theory. > > At the University of Michigan, a coveted high school senior was entertained > by Michigan poets with alcohol and theorists in a Detroit hotel suite six > years ago. When the university learned about the party, Michigan's > president felt compelled to apologize to the recruit's parents. > > At Michigan State University, visiting high school prose poets were > entertained by theorists at a Detroit nightclub and other recruits taken to > a casino, where they practiced writing chance-derived works, leading the > N.C.P.A. to put the prose poetry program on probation for two years in 1998. > > With the image of college poetry having been tarnished in recent years by a > number of incidents in which poets were charged with plagiarism and > copyright infringement, some critics contend that recruiting parties have > become a particularly insidious part of the problem. > > "These parties are a major problem," said Thames Dumberthanthat, president > of the University of Michigan from 1988 to 1996. "And I can't say for > certain, but I think they are a problem at a number of universities, mainly > because these are high school kids away from home and there is a total lack > of supervision and structure. I was shocked when I heard about how they > were handled. They basically turn these kids loose and hope a great poem > will come out." > > Though the parties are usually unofficial, they are often part of high > school poets' N.C.P.A.-sanctioned two-day visits to campuses. The high > school seniors usually get to meet critics and poets, go to readings, and > attend classes. At night, they are usually entertained by college poets > hoping to impress them. > > Recruiting parties can be harmless fun, but they can also cross the line. > Players sometimes provide wine and theory to visiting high school seniors, > according to interviews with former poets, critics, law enforcement > officials and prose writers who have attended recruiting parties. > Sometimes, too, these people say, the older poets arrange for recruits to > have access to poems by George Bowering and David Bromige. "These kids are > not prepared for the effect of this kind of poetry, which is provided > without any historical context or information about the importance of > Canadian national identity for both poets," said Dan Joyisme, President of > the League for Poetic Improvement. > > While the parties carry some legitimacy as part of university-sanctioned > campus visits, they are seldom supervised by university officials and often > take place off campus. As such, critics say, these parties carry murky > expectations for those who attend, often in a raucous atmosphere with > sensibilities dulled by wine or metaphor. "The long range problem," said > Mr. Dumberthanthat, "is that poetic intoxication will lead these young > people to think of poetry as a free pass to avoid serious pursuit of > college athletics." He noted that colleges with Division I poetry programs > often lowered athletic standards for top poets in an effort to keep them > enrolled. > > In the past, many university officials have argued that they were not > responsible for misbehavior that occurred late at night in unofficial > settings. But many law enforcement officials, community officials and > leaders of poetry improvement groups contended that the colleges were at > fault for failing to properly supervise poets and their high school guests. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:51:08 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lakey Teasdale Subject: almost an ass in nine tale(s) Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable almost an ass in nine tale(s) 1 Consider a daresay at ever y turn a hazardous, limp id it y parallels insideout the square circ u larit y per fectl y At ease, comrades. FREEZE! 2 Outraced the paced scaled mathematical. Enter! The=20 threshold trips you &=20 BANG. BANG. You are dead meaning he/she. 3 Ah, well, in genius terms Vasari said Leo da V was best, his roar evi dent il y laud est 4 maximum. something op po site stopagap thrillme killyou or otherwise she/he and the icewo/man cometh like a house afire. Eh, sire? 5 Mebbe. Just mebbe. Depends. Her/his blackeyed shadows fitted him/her well-well &/or they should. given the cut of the jib. Monkey 6 see, monkey do all the monkeys belong to the zoo.=20 But the ass? doesn't know from the hinny or hind. Could be Balaam or Golden, even Eeyore, king of=20 the gloomiest patches 7 Pin the tail back on and it matches 8 Count on it da V, but onl y 9 eight fingers. one thumb EQUALS=20 (almost) an ass in nine tale(s). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:10:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: bowering on collins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, while I'm not sure about the meanings, in the context of m.a.'s use, of "mergings", I'll say that Lisa Robertson is a World poet, as is Lissa Wolsak. When they read,they direct my attention to "our" life, not to theirs. I hope m.a. isn't suffering from a self-imposed stereotyping of "Canadian Literature". DB -----Original Message----- From: mIEKAL aND To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:18 AM Subject: Re: bowering on collins > for some reason Im not able to let this go. it seems like an off the >cuff simplification to say that good poems often make things more >difficult, maybe even inferring that "difficult poetry" (which we all >know & love) is intrinsically better. its about where a reader is >coming from & what use they can make out of the experience of reading. >for me an iowa writer's workshop poem is far more difficult to contend >with that a poem by Bruce Andrews. Aram Saroyan's poem "eyeye" has to >be one of the simplest poems on the planet, its beauty & "goodness" >having little to do with a notion of difficulty. > >by the way George, its remarkable that youve this opportunity, now if >only a nation's literature can merge with a world's literature. > >mIEKAL > > > >On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 10:59 PM, Peter Quartermain wrote: > >> On 20 November mIEKAL aND wrote: >>>> In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good >>>> poems >> tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." >>> george did you really say that? >> ------ >> I sure hope you did, George, it's truly brilliant and pithy. Who, after >> all, would want poems to make things simpler than they are. President >> Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. >> > > >mIEKAL aND >memexikon@mwt.net > | > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:38:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: "Topsy" & 100 Million for Poetry? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey all! Heard through the shaking grapevine that poet Elizabeth Alexander and scholar Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick pinpointed that in Joseph Parisi's comments on the $100 million gift to Poetry, he stated that "it would grow like Topsy." Now, Topsy is the little enslaved Black girl, friend of Little Eva and charge of Miss Feely (Ophelia) from "Uncle Tom's Cabin," who, after stating that she has no parents, declares that she "just growed." (Ishmael Reed's "Jes Grew") She also declares that if she were "skinned" she'd be good, and that "can't nobody love a n*gger," etc. So, this cartwheeling, stealing, candy-loving, godless autochthonous creature's development is one model for the future development of "Poetry"? Did anyone see this statement of Parisi's? Tisa ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:27:19 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: I'm not invading Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit listening to the report of what "Lord Robertson" said to Russia about NATO today, it sounded very much like an offer of protection, as in "protection" they wouldn't like NATO being on their turf, sure; but finally they'd come to see it was the safest way oops, I just dropped your economy; how clumsy of me L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Berlow" To: Sent: 22 November 2002 18:04 Subject: I'm not invading Canada | On 22 Nov 2002 at 0:03, Automatic digest processor wrote: | | > A bevy of military analysts, most recently the Council on Canadian | > Security in the 21st Century and the Atlantic Institute, have also warned | > Canada is at risk of being unable to defend itself unless it increases | > spending. | | Defend itself from whom? The Native Americans? Michigan? New | York? Quebec? Eskimos? Microsoft? Personally, I'm not planning to | invade Canada... | | -- | Joshua Berlow's Website: http://www.joshuaberlow.com | ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:20:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: "Topsy" & 100 Million for Poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Would it were to grow like William Morris & become a juggernaut of interarts experimentation. ("Topsy" was Rossetti's not very kind nickname for him.) But (I guess in response to Joe) would $100 mil dropped in some other lap (say Poetry, ca. 1915) be an unadulterated good thing? Wasn't there a Twilight Zone episode where an imp gave Ron Padgett $100 million and the St. Marks Poetry Project turned into Starbucks? I think if I had $100 mil I'd give $100,000 to 1,000 poets and let it grow topsy-turvy. Damian On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:38:04 -0500 Tisa Bryant wrote: > Hey all! > > Heard through the shaking grapevine that poet Elizabeth Alexander and > scholar Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick pinpointed that in Joseph Parisi's comments > on the $100 million gift to Poetry, he stated that "it would grow like > Topsy." > > Now, Topsy is the little enslaved Black girl, friend of Little Eva and > charge of Miss Feely (Ophelia) from "Uncle Tom's Cabin," who, after stating > that she has no parents, declares that she "just growed." (Ishmael Reed's > "Jes Grew") She also declares that if she were "skinned" she'd be good, and > that "can't nobody love a n*gger," etc. So, this cartwheeling, stealing, > candy-loving, godless autochthonous creature's development is one model for > the future development of "Poetry"? > > Did anyone see this statement of Parisi's? > > Tisa <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:52:17 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: 100 Million for Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Damian writes: I think if I had $100 mil I'd give $100,000 to 1,000 poets and let it grow topsy-turvy. I Reply: Hmm. I'd give it to them in pennies. Make 'em work for it. Yep. As well, I doubt _Poetry_ will survive its good fortune. Which could be good or bad, depending on what it might mean to survive. Best, JG --------------- JGallaher "How has the human spirit ever survived the terrific literature with which it has had to contend?" --Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:50:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Stephens Subject: Poetry in the News Yet Again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ***Who Says There's No Money and Power in Poetry*** by Dirk Ashcroft New York, Nov. 22 (Murdoch Wire)--"Deep down, poetry is boring," says poet William Tomcollins, cruising in his S.U.V. through the streets of Westchester. "Particularly when we're at war, you have to reassure people, and nothing does that better than poetry." A genial fifty-something, Tomcollins says he loves reading for politicians and foundation heads, but that average Americans are still his main audience. As Official Poet of the State of Iowa, Tomcollins has leveraged his position to become one of the most widely read poets in the U.S. "I still haven't caught up with Jewel in terms of sales," Tomcollins says, as he sips hurriedly from a large glass of Scotch. "But in terms of demographics, I've got her beat in the 35-55 independent-voter suburban bracket. I used to get a lot of sales from the Promise Keepers, but now that the movement's kind of died down, my agent's been trying to get me on Oprah. It's kind of hard now that Jonathan Franzen blew it for the rest of us." "People just want to know that they're OK, that the country's OK, that it's OK to be who you are," says Tomcollins. "Just because you like poetry doesn 't mean you're effeminate or intellectual. In fact, poetry can be a surprisingly good way to make a living. If you can get in with the foundations and the right publishers, that is. My friends now run the NEA, the Guggenheim Foundation, and the country." With respect to the last of these, Tomcollins is referring, with characteristic understatement, to his friendship with Dick Cheney, whom Tomcollins says has long been a closet fan of his poetry. When asked, Tomcollins shrugged off recent attacks upon his poetry on the part of the Poet Laureate of New Zealand. "In a time of war, we need unity on the part of nations and poets. I don't know what he said about me because I don't take in negative energy, but whatever it was it was an insult to the average ordinary working people of America." He continues: "What billionaire ever donated $100 million to the poetry elite of New Zealand?" Collins is referring to a recent charitable gift to Official Verse Magazine on the part of a billionaire heiress. "That money could have gone to all kinds of causes: reducing illiteracy in India, providing AIDS drugs in Africa, funding thousands of arts organizations for the half of the world's population who live on less than $2 a day. But here in America people know that poets and the life of the imagination are important. We need to support the people who sacrifice on behalf of culture--like some of the poets I know who teach poetry workshops who are in their 70s and 80s and have yet to win a lifetime achievement award. Why shouldn't we treat poets like CEOs? After all, culture is an American product like anything else." Visibly flushed after this passionate defense of poetry, Tomcollins takes another quick gulp and looks down into his glass of Scotch. As if to counter any impression that he is distressed--even if only for a moment--he perks up. "Deep down I'm an optimist, and I'm living the American dream. If I could do it in politics--I mean, make this much money, work this little, and have so many adoring female fans--I'd run for congress. But hey," he says with a wink, "I get to read poems and everyone in congress listens, it' s all bipartisan, and we can all be reassured by the enduring power of poetry." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:47:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <5F3FCB5E-FE3E-11D6-AC0F-0003935A5BDA@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Simple"? "Difficult"? I know some who find Saroyan's "eyeye" utterly opaque and/or trivial, a variety of bafflegab to be dismissed. Arcane, perhaps. Certainly (or uncertainly) "difficult". But "simple", "difficult", and, well, "arcane", are (like a lot of other large abstractions) very slippery terms indeed, no? I thought, it seems wrongly, that the Canadian Poet Lariat's assumption was that "nothing is as simple as it appears." Or rather, "as it appears to be." ("Appears", note; "to be", note. Two very tricky words/phrases indeed, neither at all simple, slide all over the shop. Surely one need not invoke Heidegger to see that.) I share the Great Canadian Cowboy Poet's assumption (assuming I've read his remark, er, um, _correctly_. . . .), and Aram Saroyam's poem confirms that assumption, I'd have thought. Need I add that some poems, which appear "difficult", turn out to be "simpler" than their writer thought or hoped, and thereby disappoint their reader? This is an argument (?) (disagreement?) (?) over the meaning of (un)certain terms. ======= excuse, please, the rhetorical shriek quotes above, but I think I needed them, rhetorically anyway. Peter Q ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: November 22, 2002 9:18 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: bowering on collins for some reason Im not able to let this go. it seems like an off the cuff simplification to say that good poems often make things more difficult, maybe even inferring that "difficult poetry" (which we all know & love) is intrinsically better. its about where a reader is coming from & what use they can make out of the experience of reading. for me an iowa writer's workshop poem is far more difficult to contend with that a poem by Bruce Andrews. Aram Saroyan's poem "eyeye" has to be one of the simplest poems on the planet, its beauty & "goodness" having little to do with a notion of difficulty. by the way George, its remarkable that youve this opportunity, now if only a nation's literature can merge with a world's literature. mIEKAL On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 10:59 PM, Peter Quartermain wrote: > On 20 November mIEKAL aND wrote: >>> In general, Mr. Bowering says, poetry is meant to be nuanced. "Good >>> poems >> tend to make things more difficult than they appear to be." >> george did you really say that? > ------ > I sure hope you did, George, it's truly brilliant and pithy. Who, after > all, would want poems to make things simpler than they are. President > Bush, maybe, or the aforementioned Mr Collins. > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:44:33 +1030 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Bolton Subject: same old same old poem In-Reply-To: <000001c2929a$bbf35320$345e17cf@diogenes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SOME THINKING Does all art aspire to the condition of music? - While someone is always prepared to say so I put on a tape, a CD, *instead* of writing or put it on to write to - & that is as far as the art gets. A tape rolls quietly - "Light Blue", "Soul Eyes" - to which I've done a lot of reading, a lot of pottering about, some drawings - & to which I've 'cleaned house' - & a lot of writing - or 'trying to write', which comes to the same thing. Mal Waldron wrote both these tunes. I first heard of him in the poem for Billie Holiday - "The Day Lady Died", with the great last lines where she whispers to him across the keyboard "& everyone & I stopped breathing." The great thing about the line is the uncertainty: is it "everyone & I stopped breathing"? or that Holiday whispers the song "to Mal Waldron & everyone" - & it is *then* O'Hara "stopped breathing"? It makes for a pause, a hesitation, a number of them - that evokes the magic & tension of her timing. And there's Frank, leaning there - near the door to the toilets? The 'john', which always suggests the hard American 50s - & ensures I think of him in a white shirt & narrow tie, suited. Already the texture of life is disappearing - exactly how it felt, to be in those suits, in that time, at a nightclub how anxious or not, how preoccupied & with what - how people held themselves - is gone. Well, it survives somehow, unverifiably, hard to quantify, in poetry =8A we still have the music, films - but films lie. Cassavetes suggests the era to me - was he 'the type' of the hipster - cool, up tight, hip, witty - suited, a drinker, free, & maybe more exploratory - within limits more circumscribed than now? Or do we always see ourselves as more free & get it wrong? Did he & O'Hara meet ever? Different worlds. The thing I was going to say about nightclubs was that maybe how people feel & act in them never changes. (I heard some magical things at Lark & Tina's, for example. I've been as tense as anyone, at the Cargo Club - & wore suits there.) But night clubs themselves might've changed with the music: amplified is different? the fashion for recorded dance music or for dee-jays, might have altered them. On tape one of the moments I like best is the voice - a little shakey, a little spaced - Jim Carroll's by repute, asking for tuinols, in the space between songs, at a great Patti Smith gig. Or Velvet Underground - they're both on that tape. There's some great & wonderfully casual, relaxed things said, over the music, at a late 50's date that features Miles Davis guesting with local hero Jimmy Forrest: a type of music, & experience, continuous with the live recordings of Charlie Parker - the same carefree ambience & same reason to pay attention whereas Patti's music gets to you pretty much whether you listen or not. You don't have to choose of course. "Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine" is always great to hear said. This track, the badly named "Soul Eyes" (how can you not roll it into one word?), is not live but so sad & so unhurried it makes *time*, development, almost its subject. John Coltrane. Well within his limits - *as* somehow imagined - & great the way conservative paintings by great artists often are - a Gauguin still-life that looks as though it wants to be Manet, or Fantin-Latour. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:18:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: more MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII more hunting the skein. when there isn't. it's one man knowing. the bomb's here. it's one man to one signal. it's one guy willing. it's a matter of hours. it's a matter of minutes. of seconds. there's no operatives. there's one operative. he's decided. the fuel was stolen a while ago. it was lost a while ago. this is already fact. there are kilos missing. he's got it and he's got the bomb. they can't spread out and find him. he knows no one. he's unlisted. he's unregistered. he came through canada. he came through mexico. by boat. by plane. by car. foot. he's here. he's across the river. he's across the other river. he travels alone. he's broken all connections. no one speaks to him. no cellular. no radio, no transmissions. no email and no connections. no broken connections. he's on his own. he's an agent of no one. he can't be traced. they've got the others. they torture now. there's no other way. they shock the balls, the cunt. they cut pieces off. everyone talks or doesn't. it makes no difference. he's expulsion. he's particle. they're rounding up. they're never any closer. they're never any farther. they're in different worlds. the machine is there. the machine is hidden. it's not in the truck. it's not anywhere. he's not waiting for it. nothing is waiting. he's connected to the machine. he doesn't write anything. he doesn't read anything. there are no signals. there's no hidden agenda. there's no agenda. it's one man to one signal. he has the signal. he has the application of the signal. the signal is a lever. the signal is a button. the signal is a keyboard. it's not a key. it's not a circuit. there are no keys. there are no circuits. they've got the leader. they've got the inner circle. they've got the outer circle. they've read the email. they've monitored the transmissions. they've intercepted. they've interfered. they've included and they've cut off. they have photographs and recordings. they have evidence and prints. they have dna and voice. they have names and addresses. they have plans and passports. they know everything. the man moves towards his thing. the man keys in. === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:19:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <000001c2929a$bbf35320$345e17cf@diogenes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >by the way George, its remarkable that youve this opportunity, now if >only a nation's literature can merge with a world's literature. > >mIEKAL Despite all the identity politics going on, I am not interested in a nation's literature. I AM interested in a country's literature. I guess this is akin to admitting being a patriot while refusing to be a nationalist. -- George Bowering Becomingly humble. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:22:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: more MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hunting there the isn't. skein. it's when one there man isn't. knowing. it's the one bomb's man hunting knowing. the bomb's when here. it's to it's signal. matter guy it's willing. one a to matter one of signal. hours. matter minutes. there's seconds. operatives. there's hours. no it's operatives. a operative. was he's stolen decided. a fuel ago. was it stolen there's while operative. ago. he's it decided. lost already this kilos is missing. already he's fact. was are a kilos while missing. ago. got can't and out bomb. he they knows can't got spread it out and find got him. the he bomb. knows they one. unregistered. unlisted. came unregistered. canada. came came through no canada. one. mexico. by by car. boat. foot. plane. here. car. across foot. through across by river. river. other he's travels the alone. river. broken across all the connections. speaks speaks no cellular. no radio, no transmissions. and email connections. on email his agent own. of an one. agent he be he's traced. an they've torture others. no torture way. now. they way. the shock they balls, pieces cunt. everyone cut or pieces doesn't. off. it everyone the talks balls, or the doesn't. cunt. makes difference. difference. expulsion. expulsion. particle. particle. rounding they're up. rounding makes up. no never they're any never closer. any farther. different in never different any worlds. machine hidden. there. not hidden. it's not machine truck. the anywhere. for waiting is for waiting. it. he's nothing connected waiting. anywhere. connected not machine. anything. doesn't doesn't write read anything. anything. read the signals. no hidden there's agenda. no has of application signal. signal button. lever. is button. signal keyboard. a key. no circuit. keyboard. keys. key. circuits. leader. inner inner the circle. they've outer they've email. monitored monitored transmissions. intercepted. they've interfered. they've included and have recordings. photographs they recordings. evidence evidence off. prints. have dna names voice. addresses. names plans addresses. have plans voice. passports. know everything. moves his towards thing. thing. man keys the in. man === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:24:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: ALVIN SACHS KETHER #0024 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ALVIN SACHS KETHER #0024 [excerpt] competition opposite analogies chance customer calling claim punch judy voices dog happens flattened against wall afterward dragging real wagon horns newton unhappy wife shops grotesque figures playthings excellent people class curled such throat clasped produced gained less rich effaced well think strange astonished due total unaccustomed doors purpose effecting augmentation hours siesta well see more shrug shoulders formerly made letters length all collected united again heat considerable uneasiness shirt medea da carpi characters intended green mingled tall slight rushes classes came fired guns again again road cleared brescia race florio some coral ornaments handful amber successes medea one petroleum lamps horribly produced capitals world arose puzzled physicians amongst these felt vomiting strongly interresembling whether experienced during quantity time pain chiefly pain produced several present work hands unable give little help fancy never mind up least through long grass futility life seen turned round dull letters like sure straight two fair aristocrats recognisable once little shrieks admiration point eighth day dorrington received steps death just call eternal buzz insects issues rolled stern seemed touch annoy looked sweetly injured stern pursuance such wish four candles made dead men fat experiences truth call eternal buzz insects issues september mastedon pygmy taken thunderbolt whether sound broad portland place park where knight doleful countenance? some gipsy rather reminds points day give information such cases these proportion believed must soon separated body curator very approached looking case need tell more need live fragile seeing poohed thing took papers gaudy paintings thought end man brown felt hat first speak stare wonder frosted beans red indian give myself last time earnestly unresistible necessity sadly time righteous object edge redoubt yelling like those members official establishment ensnared gentleman plenty loose cash burmah shoulder ruffled white nothing else very same time own opinion two respectably-went only félice care attention needed keep prime overcoats belongs mode application made wearing fastening last gilded books erudition stood back against mainmast? nay rose seventh room next own threw himself against excellent people class veil seers clairvoyants humbugs rigid disciplinarian company more old places horses picketed once perhaps department clerk wanted notorious bifurcation two steep lanes bas distinguished each imports respective parties agents patients yawning gash robin can? fearful amount luggage eighteen whitened sheaves indistinctly belongs mode application made reason felt leaving scattered half quantity mat --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:30:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >X-Sender: bowering@popserver.sfu.ca >Message-Id: >In-Reply-To: > >References: > >Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:16:36 -0700 >To: UB Poetics discussion group >From: George Bowering >Subject: Re: bowering >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >>Congrats George! >> >>Maybe we'll see you out here on the other coast sometime! >> >>bests, >>kevin > >Hey, thanks. I'll be available, I hope. >-- >George Bowering >Becomingly humble. >Fax 604-266-9000 -- George Bowering Gentle as a lamb. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:28:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0034 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0034 [excerpt] the churches her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given considerable interest with emily thought flashed governor the Windward Islands Consist more than one syllable They are incapable Thomas again waves sparkling and my little whore curls encircle her marks speaking Relieved expression opinion pool pool itself she walked towards door Love the Goths Mommsen Mon Germ Hist Auct cock carefully she yelps tears welling insisted upon order that to From the sea this plateau escarpment has the heard carly tell him that grow without her father boiling cum gush into republic from the The word hence applied things that kat had done with Specimens the coast forming transverse valleys control the country was slight the Peruvian influence led extensive deposits to another British parasitic plant broomrape she didn't know what There striking contrast the influence which the south lifeless more ceus qui blent cunterE del cunte Tristran parler content streamed down extensive deposits to another British parasitic plant broomrape reaching the coast Their waterless channels her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given down there scrub his omnia facilitatem inteliigentiae revocans and systematists the come with lyrics for eyes stroked skin negotiations for peace were than confidence will allow person rolled over rest off grouped the representatives Causses from the sunny region Langiledoc where the olive himself reduced nothing? must necessity answer indeed highest Consist more than one syllable They are incapable Thomas belonging Chile North Chiloé there her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given few islands very petite brad had kelly still idly stroking which throw striking light upon the transformation which had Tristan and the priest-is already found the pontificals the felt even more profound level continuous orgasm daughter law started Ringbearers Cirdan Elrond further away don't talk standing next Now let's put somewhere where will Ringbearers Cirdan Elrond further away don't talk standing next some good that evening delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping once secured they her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given soon tamed delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping fit for service The often considered coarsely roots dried the sun and subsequently spread out for recognize large those named The drug has the actions delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping uses so told her daughter contrary what Errâzuriz that the ships were obtained delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping the officers trained Stand omnia facilitatem inteliigentiae revocans and systematists the ! shouted made sudden movement open gate wrong with her carly delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping Mediterranean basins consists narrow ridge some small with two fingers interlaced she crescent-shaped lakes which indicate most time she refuge for Royalists Seine minutes later she lay like told him sore hell stopped whom delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping Dundee the North British railway via Leuchars theology under consists large cubes packed coarse bags The wood the entered suicide Santiago delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping assumed the government the elevator presently you enough you her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given very similar other vaccines terms reactions commonly expect Colonel Ashley held piece paper writing Lincoln the Rabinowitz know make man wished now never gotten indentations he succeeded reversion from his uncle Sir Philip matter they wouldn't even level land The question indeed though itself ridiculous kissed her hand the river handling charges significant program will still require fine customs house Taken people now pretty good physical weakness and the following spring began muscles where going strong motivators helping retention for Lord Randolph Churchill leader of Subiaco is crowned her head her cheek painfully before releasing Upper Burma The drift out front door with keep legs closed days grew wild like cinnamon delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping was exported far omnia facilitatem inteliigentiae revocans and systematists the she much wanted some farming occupation move provide for the evacuation the Chilean doctrine enumerates the errors the Osnabrück where died the occupation northern frontier was removed the river Catharones which is here that significance cab pulled away returned massaging thigh become found constantly parents were divorced civilization itself also the its pristine purity Gill steve standing fall soon afer left whom continued till Christmas rescue many allusions Bramlett said exercise more train test S forces Chobin had proclaimed himself king delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping Chosroes was not delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping shipbuilding delicate golden colour and must not the act springing leaping her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given streams celebrating barely started workers began packaging Force standing long exposure did jill jill quickly Many the socalled ports her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given only landing-places whosoever shall compel thee mile twain know colored brother six open pulling her omnia facilitatem inteliigentiae revocans and systematists the they steve standing fall soon afer left whom continued till Christmas her more aggressively his how mothers her Yes Make haste now Barathor stopped looked down boy given roots dried the sun and subsequently spread out for recognize Gentlemen exclaimed Squeers Damn business joined From this moment begins long-drawn-out series for the preceding decennial period the --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 23:15:17 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: on collins & canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat. Somewhat...Collins and ceratian poets .... well there are many very good poets .......but they do noting fundamentally new for the art: or in some way they are repeating...this can lead ceratain poets being "neglected' or seen in the wrong way because they are not "interesting" (although maybe some are simply not so..but my very good friend and fellow inebriate Bob Orr (considered by some, I say some,to be possibly (in term of inherent talent) to be possibly Auckland's "best" ( he is Auckland's unofficial lauraeate) ( I saw him to night actually) and maybe New Zealand's (best poet) although these judgements are moot: but he is not maybe 'groundbreaking' or whatever the term is...should he be ignored?...no...but certainly not contempt: all poets have something to say: we should listen (and read) carefully.... It is also a fact that the very position invites attack or grumbling.....Billy Collins the Laureate gets a lot of exposure and has influence: but I dont feel we should be so heavy on him: criticise yes..point is that to know what is "electric" or startlignly original and innovative etc we need to evaluate the other writer: there is in fact a great range of writers...without studying him though I'm dubious of a poet who makes simplistic remarks re Ted Berrigan (if he did): a marvelous poet (and Anslelm) I would say: was wonderful father....but as I say we need to look more "objectively at these guys...my disquisition of and on Baraka wasnt because I liked his poetic mode ...but what he was saying and his right to say it interested me and also the fact that he is radical and afro-american and so on... we need to somehow "ignore" the laureate status for critical purposes...Rivhard ---- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: Re: on collins & canada > Richard, > > It seems to me Collins is drawing such contempt because he is the poet > laureate. Why contempt, rather than indifference, is that not what you are > asking? > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:45:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: round trip In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit round trip ageless spots mark time, marks time as dots, dots of abalonian everything underlined twice, v=d/t. we have to choose the figure or face, discipline or decimal point, both dismal ports of call. abel's last call home. or-or something being similia siimilibus curantue, or congealed lavender oil, the people zarathustra dreamt of peopling the heights of silis-maria. dionysius continual resurrection and polymorphous hand-me-downs. a bright spot in reverse hangs there before our eyes. "are you sure this is what you see?" from the murmuring center. is it not the other thing, maybe just a fragment, an elongated torment, something like water. a lesson in ambiance. a failed field of forever applied to spikes, averting rooftops, or that all invasive zero put together like flying a kite - to much of too frequent a good distraction compounded in excessive thinking. a waffle orthodoxy which switches in between their would be and to dead batteries. a local skinny hand puppet declining either or both sides and skips the middle. it's about a time that will never occur, nevertheless the parts continue, there is a racket stored in a perpetual rock, reliquariums that talkitup. rough weather for disco, techno take warning. I ordered a larger something else - dandy sweet heart pincushion (v'''''') _______, ___________, ____________, ___________, - with corresponding numbers invaded by a desire. an ironic last holdout, last block, a super holding pattern. in the evening dismal sound hovers 2 ft. before everyone. the fish does not want to be moved to pity. in a lavender an opening closes, there is a snap, the aroma of precision holograms plot thickens. you are a moderate cause - you make plans - there are three juggernauts in a row at the same time time happens. again, questions spring board, is it an accumulative respect? a passing fancy? can you get tongue and groove without the groove? trash cans fill with words that refer to stacks. " I wish there were more laws about almost extinct animals," or none or always already, the fascinating pretext all can adore, and hold as sure fit anecdotes to surface methodology, when nothing else will phase it the but you say the form of something is obliged somewhere to reason, flat and predictable. washed up and taken to the other shore. parody the new potentate of the new century, " I am you being me through you will on stage seen only as you, but you know you see you in me being you, and you can taste it with a heavy dose of salt brine inhaled deeply. there is the moment when oxygen is depleted, of or by a moment sooner and it would have been a completely different outcome. the teas too hot - the rest in due course. one, too, three, four, 6, 6, 5, 6, 6,5 - there was an old . . . who . . . rippled the sea. by famous I mean " _________" on the dock of . . . long arm of the . . . to and or but when how who whom then call all come and went for the potential infinitive transgressive polysyllabic ambiguous, a little bit of the old slip-in-and-slide, get-a-long, little affirmations for a new stick, next caller, new towers, return tips, money cracks, kirillian photo finish, flat as harmony, fuzz out segue to blue, gold with nasturtium conclusion. as to the mental process, it's like an appendage to potential infinity, murder and revolution. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:52:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <000001c2929a$bbf35320$345e17cf@diogenes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought I was suffering from self-flagellated stereotyping of poet laureates. On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 05:10 PM, dcmb wrote: > I hope m.a. isn't suffering from a self-imposed stereotyping of > "Canadian Literature". DB > -----Original Message----- mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:59:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: the whalebone essays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed all: the new issue of www.castagraf.com is up... there you will find another excerpt from the first volume of The Whalebone Essays, an on-going collaborative project between myself and the poets Eric Baus, Nick Moudry & Travis Nichols. this time it's easier to read but they use lots of fancy flash and spell my name wrong and mean well... www.castagraf.com/issue3/issuethreeset.html _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:45:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: William Packard 1933-2002 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I haven't seen any notice here of Bill Packard's death, so I guess I'll post the announcement. He died at home in his apartment in NYC Nov. 3, 2002. Packard was a poet, playwright, novelist, teacher, perhaps best known as the founder/editor of The New York Quarterly. He started that in 1969, and died just two days after getting out Issue 58. There will be a public memorial service in New York ( Nov. 23, 7:30) at the 92nd St. Y, where he was the host of the famous reading series. His family asks that in lieu of flowers contributions to be made to NYQ. Issue 59 will be dedicated to remembrance of Packard and his work. Sylvester Pollet ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:42:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: a fall In-Reply-To: <6380B4BF1BC6D411909A00B0D078B976033A1777@CBDC3NYO.com.collegeboard.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a fall ten thousand and on in the blind side spot spiral indentation a mandgrill calls to light years long migration a fall a step I take a step I you take a step in unison we all step this is a step dance all 4 or five or VI or 7 = billion billion billion steps =09= = down = step = in = step = count = then all this is impossible the complicity voice who gave you to who to racket ratchet up to 4 feet in migraine distance incense the clock=09 project the stop wild and run aground =09 the cast lot rings distraction no, not rings buzzes blinds next in line form filled in trillions march left right left shuffle hovel / hovall rockets red stare in the music of stone a near miss a subterranean trembelo a tender growing a step blind birds behind lower than = description a deposit to = composition = artificial whistle thick as windows aristotle=92s shadow a wind chill =09 fact of one hundred and 12 times a single silent chime dial one step back please try your call again= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:41:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: "Topsy" & 100 Million for Poetry? Comments: cc: A Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" topsy, christ... anyone, anyone who's been published and is publishing courtesy of the small presses pretty much realizes that w/o an organization like spd in berkeley---check that---w/o spd in berkeley, we'd all be dogmeat, running from store to store hawking our little books on consignment (not to impugn the dignity of same, either)... so here's, oh let's see, $1,000,000 to spd in berkeley... would you spd folks care to comment on what that might mean to you?---or is it (as i venture it might well be) too painful to consider in light of where said monies actually went?... now what to do with the other $99,000,000, hmmmm... them zeros is important, folks---this is a tremendous, obscene even, amount of bread... if the anguish dept here at cu (u of colorado @ boulder), with its 50 tenured/tenure-track faculty, were to receive $1,000,000 w/o strings, it's fair to say this sum would vastly amplify what we might do for our 1000+ anguish majors... i mean, a cool million to most anguish depts. would be a windfall of epic proportions... and i mean, heck, as someone pointed out, this sum is near equal to the entire budget of the nea... so to give this money to the mag ~poetry~, which (and it really isn't all that important what you think about what i'm about to say) stopped functioning as a vital poetry mag about a quarter-century ago, is absurd... ludicrous... laughable... the way money congeals around established institutions, institutions of the establishment (poetry and otherwise)---terrifying?... to give that amount of money to ANY single mag would be so, at some level... it only aggravates matters that it ends up going to ~poetry~, with their 700 sq ft office in the newberry... as if an office in the newberry (yes?) were insignificant in the first place... as if a 12,000 member (yes?) subscriber base were insignificant in the first place (what's ~chain~'s subscriber base currently?---30 or subscribers?)... absurd... ludicrous... laughable... terrifying?... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:57:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: "Topsy" & 100 Million for Poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frankly, Joe, I've been amazed at the amount of whining and grousing folks hereabouts have been doing on this. After all it's *her* party, and she can dole it out where she wants to. *Some* folks might have willed it to the US government, stipulating that it be used to beef up military marching bands, or maybe buy half of a brand-new F-22. Terrifying? Not even close. Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { topsy, christ... { { anyone, anyone who's been published and is publishing courtesy of the { small presses pretty much realizes that w/o an organization like spd { in berkeley---check that---w/o spd in berkeley, we'd all be dogmeat, { running from store to store hawking our little books on consignment { (not to impugn the dignity of same, either)... { { so here's, oh let's see, $1,000,000 to spd in berkeley... would you { spd folks care to comment on what that might mean to you?---or is it { (as i venture it might well be) too painful to consider in light of { where said monies actually went?... { { now what to do with the other $99,000,000, hmmmm... { { them zeros is important, folks---this is a tremendous, obscene even, { amount of bread... if the anguish dept here at cu (u of colorado @ { boulder), with its 50 tenured/tenure-track faculty, were to receive { $1,000,000 w/o strings, it's fair to say this sum would vastly { amplify what we might do for our 1000+ anguish majors... i mean, a { cool million to most anguish depts. would be a windfall of epic { proportions... { { and i mean, heck, as someone pointed out, this sum is near equal to { the entire budget of the nea... { { so to give this money to the mag ~poetry~, which (and it really isn't { all that important what you think about what i'm about to say) { stopped functioning as a vital poetry mag about a quarter-century { ago, is absurd... ludicrous... laughable... the way money congeals { around established institutions, institutions of the establishment { (poetry and otherwise)---terrifying?... to give that amount of money { to ANY single mag would be so, at some level... it only aggravates { matters that it ends up going to ~poetry~, with their 700 sq ft { office in the newberry... as if an office in the newberry (yes?) were { insignificant in the first place... as if a 12,000 member (yes?) { subscriber base were insignificant in the first place (what's { ~chain~'s subscriber base currently?---30 or subscribers?)... { { absurd... ludicrous... laughable... terrifying?... { { best, { { joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:28:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: subrosa@SPEAKEASY.ORG Subject: sEatTLe sUBteXt READING Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by Peter Culley and Daniel Comiskey at the Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, December 4, 2002. Suggested donations for admission are $5 at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Peter Culley lives in South Wellington, near Nanaimo on Vancouver Island. His books of poetry include The Climax Forest (Leech Books, 1995) and Hammertown, which will be published by New Star in 2003. His writings on visual art have been appearing in various venues since 1987. Daniel Comiskey is co-editor and co-publisher of "Monkey Puzzle," a magazine of innovative and experimental writing. He's also the literary manager for The Poet's Theater, a local company dedicated to producing plays by poets. He writes poetry and works at the Seattle Public Library. The future Subtext 2003 schedule is: Jan 1 - Holiday B.Y.E. Feb 5, 2003 - mARK oWEns (Portland, OR) and John Olson March 5, 2003 - Rhoda Rosenfeld (Vancouver, BC) and April Denonno Subtext readings fall on the 1st Wednesday of the month (unless otherwise noted) at the Richard Hugo House. The Hugo House is located at 1634 11th Ave on Capitol Hill in Seattle. Suggested donations for admission are $5 at the door on the evening of the performance. For information on these and other Subtext events, see our web site: http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:46:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: "Topsy" & 100 Million for Poetry? Comments: cc: A Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" well hal---i can understand the F-22 arguments, of course---but i suppose it depends on how important you see literary culture, no?... and right about now, when we're verging e.g. on a war that some (such as moi) think is a mistake (& please don't mistake this for unbridled pacifism on my part, either), i would say literary culture is as important as ever... and to be candid, this isn't about What The Wealthy Can Do With Their Money---seems to me that sentiment (and i'm attributing same to you, yes) can be made to plug squarely into the "free" market rhetoric that's helping to bring this country down... it's about What The Wealthy Should Do With Their Money, and in this case, Should Do With Their Money For The Arts... i hold such folks accountable, even into their 80s (david rockefeller incl---and have you had a look at his new memoir? astonishing, if not terrifying)... but the last thing i wish to do is come off as precious, in any case, so i'll withdraw "terrifying", if you insist, and insert, sans question mark STARTLING best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:58:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: "Topsy" & 100 Million for Poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems fair, Joe. If you'll replace "terrifying" with "startling," I'll tone down "whining and grousing" to "complaining." Hal Colourless green ideas sleep furiously. --Noam Chomsky Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { well hal---i can understand the F-22 arguments, of course---but i { suppose it depends on how important you see literary culture, no?... { and right about now, when we're verging e.g. on a war that some (such { as moi) think is a mistake (& please don't mistake this for unbridled { pacifism on my part, either), i would say literary culture is as { important as ever... { { and to be candid, this isn't about What The Wealthy Can Do With Their { Money---seems to me that sentiment (and i'm attributing same to you, { yes) can be made to plug squarely into the "free" market rhetoric { that's helping to bring this country down... it's about What The { Wealthy Should Do With Their Money, and in this case, Should Do With { Their Money For The Arts... i hold such folks accountable, even into { their 80s (david rockefeller incl---and have you had a look at his { new memoir? astonishing, if not terrifying)... { { but the last thing i wish to do is come off as precious, in any case, { so i'll withdraw "terrifying", if you insist, and insert, sans { question mark { { STARTLING { { best, { { joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:03:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Futurepoem * Rachel Levitsky Book Party * Dec. 10 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable POETRY CITY & FUTUREPOEM books invite you to a party to celebrate the publication of: U N D E R T H E S U N new poems by Rachel Levitsky Tuesday, Dec 10, 2002, 7:00 P.M. FREE Teachers & Writers 5 Union Square West, 7th Floor (between 14th and 15th Sts.) New York City (212-691-6590). Readings by Levitsky & Special Guests Directions: Take the 4,5,6,L to Union Square; F,2,3 to 14th. Note: Best to arrive between 7-8 when doorman on duty. * * * "Under the Sun operates on the small stages of intimate conflict and longing, but casts light outside the ring: we see the shadows of the crowd, we smell the dirty water that slaps against the piers. It's a formulation and un-doing of the personal. Intimacy excavated yields characters, ironic and adrift, who quiver in the jackets of their names. We know them by contact, or contract, an occupation of looks and resistance. The poem enact= s the force of situated desire. Under the Sun is brilliant wit wrenching poetics: a word stream taking its shirt off." =8BCamille Roy=20 "I am struck by the intellectual verve of this poem, its complex sense of the architecture of the poem as it responds to diverse literary traditions. This long poem creates rooms of and room for playfulness, humour, political anger, and aesthetic pleasures. It isn't static; it moves; it reads itself and interrogates. =8BCarla Harryman "Rachel Levitsky brilliantly designs mysterious flying objects of language and of desire, as she succeeds in giving each word an intriguing span of life. Her poems are theater, teaser, solution, entretien de tension which keep meaning and its boundaries open for intimate manuvres of reading." =8BNicole Brossard Rachel Levitsky is the author of four previous chapbooks of poetry, Cartographies of Error (Leroy Chapbooks), 2[1x1] Portraits (Baksun), Dearly (A + Bend Press) and The Adventures of Yaya and Grace (Potes and Poets). He= r work has appeared in numerous magazines. She lives and works in New York where she curates the Belladonna reading series and chapbooks series at Bluestockings Womens Bookstore. Futurepoem is supported by the kindness of strangers (a.k.a. individual donations) and a recent grant from the New York Community Trust. For more information on Futurepoem books go to http://www.futurepoem.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:49:13 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anslem Berrigan Subject: Re: pepsi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No apology necessary Jeffrey. And I wasn't looking to extract one either, or to bash the Billy. My cranky post was directed at my enemy, the reader. Sometimes when someone talking about Ted says "pills" I like to say "dad".... my own private injection of difficulty... slave to the subjective tho' I be. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:31:30 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: pepsi some comments re Ted Berrigan Creeley and some Poems by Ted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anselm My experience of "discovering" Ted Berigan, your father (I didnt know he was) . I had come "back" to poetry and literature in my forties, and was doing a degree at Auckland Uni (NZ) and browsing on the shelves of the American Mod poetry when I came across this strange book edited by someone called Alice Notely (who I didnt kow then is also one of the major poets of our times) and its was the book of poems written on lined card i think they were. I liked the idea but couldnt "understand" them. (More recently I tried some poems like that on cards but dont have a publisher or friend like Alice Notely!) but later I also found (I think it was in a book of NY poets) the famous sonnets. Later when Robert Creeley was here (1995) he took some lectures at Auck Uni and, although some of my friends thought he rambled (and were grumbling about Olson and others) my reaction was to attend his lectures and tewy I felt were excellent and inspiring to hear Creeley read all those poets, most of whom he had known eg Olson himself (it was almost funny the way Robert turned the Maximus Book around as he read the "circular poems" but somehow Robert got onto the question of "place"' and gave an example of somewhere in Wellington (connects as he is married to a New Zealander I think (another point he is received he by all manner of poetic phiosophies and grumblers and also seen by the more conservative ... well the attention paid to him when he visited previously was seen as intellectual grovelling ( my opinion US culture has an enormous amount to teach NZrs (as does many other cultures of course (but needed to free ourselves from too much of the British influence)))) and there were (he mainly just read from the various poets and anecdoted about those he knew such as Ed Dorn, Ted, and John Wieners (I dont know if he knew Jack Spicer but this was the first time I'd heard of Spicer): I liked the lectures and didnt mind the "ramble coeficient" (being a great rambler and divigator myself!) but in one tutorial we got to Ted Berrigan and we all laughed at the tape (but the reaction was also almost one of awe and thus I think it is that people liked the dpwn beat reference to the dog) of him reading about one where he comes home and the dog has chewed up his manuscripts or something: now in that tutorial Michelle Leggott said to the effect how is that he can do these poems (the O'Hara-ish ..well the Berriganic thing I suppose) and so many try the method and fail ( my heart sank - would I be one of those?!) and his reply was that T Berrigan was a voracious reader: he recalled even seeing him reading and reading on an aeroplane (airplane) trip (to a poetry reading I suppose) - I cant read on aeroplanes - reading everywhere and everything: and the assumption there is that, and it throws out the image of him just popping pills or drinking pepsi or whtever... it maybe makes that aspect irrelevant (I pop valium it does me no harm, or not much, and have been known to drink coca-cola and pepsi since the 1950s!): here we have a serious artist with a great knowledge and the writer of two books I refuse to ever sell "Ted Berrigan Morning Line" and "In the Early Morning Rain" (which is usually beside anoher book (beautifully printed on an old press with also a lot of amjor NZ artists in it (no Wystan its NOT for sale!!) "Things of Iron Thingsof Green" and expatriaite Aerican poet who I got a big reading with hundreds of people for but that book is also "off limits") Bill was a cranky Yank - I billed him as Wid Bill Millet! - who is even in a book on The Beats somewhere, but a good guy who got alot things going over her in NZ, unfortunately died in 2000 I think it was...his obsessions were the nuclear issue and war and the injustices to black people) But to return: your father was not as renowned ( but his influence in what I like to call "significant" poetry will outlast Billy Collins which is not to denigrate B Collins...I think it is just a fact of history) as Ginsberg who I think is an important poet, but is liked "too much" (as is Baxter over here).. for maybe the wrong reasons..the legend of him is greater than his work: and your father didnt kill someone and go crazy on drugs like Burroughs hence the lack of a big cult following ( I could always sell Burroughs as Harry Nudel will confirm or Bukowski but not (so easily) Zukofsky or Ted Berrigan (eg)...altho amongst a growing number of young writers here both of those are becoming very significant (thanks in quite a large part to Roger Horrocks and Wystan Curnow, Michelle Leggott, and Murray Edmond and others at Auck Uni)...The Sonnets are just transforming, almost heart stoppingly elctric, here the "natural voice and the lyric inter-collide, surely, and also some deconstruction goes on and construction... I'd cut myself in half (and eat George Bowering's hat) to be able to write anything like The Sonnets but also the stop start things (sometimes one thinks of Raworth - of his earlier work). Grovellor that I am (the only time I've done anything silly like this) I wanted to shake a "great" poet's hand, so, seeing R Creeley in 1995 one day on the steps of the Auck Uni library I called out "Robert Creeley! (did I add "me old mate?)": but thus we shook hands and I mentioned the tutorial on Berrigan and that poem of Ahsbery's in which he had (used the first line(s) of "How much..longer..." and also "The doors to the academy of the furure are opening (Berrigan via Ashbery via Pasternak) ..." and as I said it (at that time I was obsessed with Ahsbery) I felt a bit guilty as I hadnt read as many Creeley poems and the thought occurred that mentioning J A might not be too politic (for all I knew they were /are daedly rivals enemies!!) but then the conversation passed to whether I should join the library (it is very expensive for even a graduate but it has a marvellous range of books) (but he said he would if it were him ..I wasnt a student then...): Here's a (some) poem(s) at random: (they do often rasie a chuckle and warmth IS a great component of Berrigan's work); CORRIDORS OF BLOOD 2 Detective an enormous room with a balcony less virulence our labors were directed toward isolating and creating such a pattern "you must allow your feelings to float free, by themsleves, like dead leaves." "I've got it," we were furious [ A thought .. virulence here has "violence" laid into it maybe (?)] 6 Cattle of the Sun a profusion of melons, oranges, and fish all through that night a lobster had been following him I had an uncomfortable night the only place I know where horror borders on poetry And another sequence: PATRIOTISM An estimated two million wasps were loosed on an area of four hundred and fifty miles inhabited by eighty thousand people or AN ORPHAN LEARNS TO COUNT The police swooped down in a squad car. Where whatever else count has at least two meanings. or SUNBURN Loading the gun with one of these buttons, he seated himself on the bed beside his wife, and declared his intention of shooting the witch cat. And these are always not only amusing: sure there is a lightness and and an O'Haric or Rawothian aspect: but there is much much more: a rich darkness and a true light of both a creative and a "lateral thinker", the "New York influence, the pepsis, the surreal, inspiration, a kind of "golden beauty" ,isxed with the "ordinary" or the daily,simulated or real "madness", edginess, deliberate disconnections and intrusions: the ancient and the recent, the references to another's writing(s) that "says it all", the jumps, the sense of modulant time: all time, in fact,...all time... and the feeling and power "in behind" the work of a person of considerable - surely very wide and deep - knowledge of literature and people...one last one ..I love typing these out: THE AFTERLIFE "The Cherry Orchard." This stuff I'm afraid...I'm not afraid, they approiach the condition of great music or art: they are so......well I have nothing against the Rita Doves and Collinses of this poetic firmament, but they are not I feel even approaching the quality of this stuff. (think even of the title: "Cattle of the Sun"..extraordinary, extraordinary, beyonds words almost..)....Kind regards to Anselm Jeffrey and Others on the List. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anslem Berrigan" To: Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:49 AM Subject: Re: pepsi > No apology necessary Jeffrey. And I wasn't looking to extract one either, or > to bash the Billy. My cranky post was directed at my enemy, the reader. > Sometimes when someone talking about Ted says "pills" I like to say "dad".... > my own private injection of difficulty... slave to the subjective tho' I be. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:11:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: G Richter & W.G. (Max) Sebald (A question) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT San Francisco has been temporary home for two great SFMOMA exhibits in the past year - those of Eve Hesse and Gerhard Richter. Ironically one, the former, a very young Jewish refugee to America from the German holocaust and, the latter, the son of a school teacher who fought as a Nazi soldier. I don't know if anyone has written of that curious coincidence (and what that association might aesthetically or otherwise reveal of value), but I am wondering about another association, that of W.G. Siebald fictional works and that of Richter, which seems close, though I have not read any critical work with that particular focus (though with a little Googling I could probably find something.) But out of a real curiosity - combined with great ignorance - I am wondering if there is one or more post-war German poets whose work cuts across a similar historical landscape and tonal (chilling?) grain. And if the work is translated, where will I best find it. Thanks, Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 22:16:09 -0500 Reply-To: nudel-soho@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Pepsi, Ted, Bob & Pen.... I found our friend Taylor's N.Z. ramblings fascinating...outside/in....are the poets of empire all that different from the F22's of Empire....& to be sure Berrigan/Olson/Bob/Dorn/Duncan/Raworth/Bernstein et al are poets of the empire...their books travel thru the empire...their voices carry thru the empire...their poetics influence the empire...whether this is good or not..i'll leave to Richard's nativists friends...but make no mistake these are the poets of Abbey & Laurel...& they are as American as multi-culti & 2nd Ave Yiddish Dadaism.. For Richard's info...Bob has a N.Z. wife..he, i thinks, sometimes calls her in his pomes, Pen...now if he had a son called Will....best Harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 01:00:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: The Season of The Rich Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > so to give this money to the mag ~poetry~, which (and it really isn't > all that important what you think about what i'm about to say) > stopped functioning as a vital poetry mag about a quarter-century > ago, is absurd... ludicrous... laughable... the way money congeals > around established institutions, institutions of the establishment > (poetry and otherwise)---terrifying?... to give that amount of money > to ANY single mag would be so, at some level... > absurd... ludicrous... laughable... terrifying?... Joe Amato > Terrifying? Not even close. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson Joe is right. This event is a macabre reminder that money- the money system- produces mostly terror for most people. A despotic tyrant that wide-awake winners learn to cringingly cultivate and respect, while the unlucky have nightmares, lose sleep, and often, little by little, everything else. But a windfall, such wild dreams! Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 01:09:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: it's in there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII it's in there Trying 134.115.4.238...old, energy and suicide telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused $ telnet purdue.edu 7g in america, where a Trying 128.210.11.29... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused the riots hiding in america, where is $ telnet panix.com 7 Trying 166.84.1.1... collected work 1 telnet: connect to address 166.84.1.1: Connection refuseds hanging on the $ exit Script done, output file is typescriptugee hiding out in america you have mail in /net/u/6/s/sondheim/.mailspool/sondheimaw.ca>,ns, alre k4% bntury You have no new mail.desrrigan@indifferenc k5% wc typescript 76 356 2868 typescript trapped america, where k6% pico typescript $ exit k6% pico typescriptin k6% pico typescripteived: from mail2.p k6% pico typescript3)iding in america, k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescript k6% pico typesc we k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescriptect : speech of the k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescriptnix3.panix.com (pan k6% pico typescript4.1.3]) k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescripth of the assassin k6% pico typescripttrapped america, where : imitationn@panix.c k6% pico typescript $ exitn america, have been hiding in america, i k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescriptwarded mail.... k6% pico typescript citizenship, w k6% pico typescriptights-theft, land a k6% pico typescript [ Can't move beyo k6% pico typescripto write : k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescript k6% pico typescript the riots hiding in america, where is $ telnet panix.com 7 Trying 166.84.1.1.. telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused the riots hiding in america, where is beyond, mechanism without electronics,h of the Save modified buffer (ANSWERING "No" WILL DESTROY CHANGES) ? No === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:24:58 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit True. Somewhat though we can take measures - given a resonable amount of good fortune and also our own adaptability: we need 1) to see the economic struggle as a challenge (and along with all other difficulties it is mainly a good (thing) or 2) It is still a challenge but by being mindful we are struggling as individuals that struggle involves a degree of social support and hence cooperation Even the most rapcious capitalist system involves cooperation and competition at all levels. I think that when people are very much in difficulties the economic struggle can seem unbearable: that is where (in an immediate sense, those of us who are even a little more fortuanate) can help those not so well off)....I think the donation was well meant. But that individuals can accumultae such huge amounts of capital (represnts labour used) is not good. Or it points to an ultimate unworkeability if not a "wrong". However we may have to live with captalism for many years. I dont know if it is desirable or acheivable for socialism or something similar ever but the present economic system is not really working very well. However, we have it now and hence... the individual struggle coomtinues in which life's problems are seen as a challenge, maybe not solvable, even interesting, but never so burdensome we lose sight of our goal for happiness (which paradoxically it might seem) involves that of increasing that of others as we can: we are social animals and also we are individuals...the two factors cooperation and individual struggle are good when they harmone...as much as can be expected. (I'm neglecting things that are in extremis: some things are almost impossible to surmount: but then we must recall we need each other - ultimately).... Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Piombino" To: Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 7:00 PM Subject: The Season of The Rich > > so to give this money to the mag ~poetry~, which (and it really isn't > > all that important what you think about what i'm about to say) > > stopped functioning as a vital poetry mag about a quarter-century > > ago, is absurd... ludicrous... laughable... the way money congeals > > around established institutions, institutions of the establishment > > (poetry and otherwise)---terrifying?... to give that amount of money > > to ANY single mag would be so, at some level... > > > absurd... ludicrous... laughable... terrifying?... > Joe Amato > > > Terrifying? Not even close. > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > > Joe is right. This event is a macabre reminder that money- the money system- > produces mostly terror for most people. A despotic tyrant that wide-awake > winners learn to cringingly cultivate and respect, while the unlucky have > nightmares, lose sleep, and often, little by little, everything else. But a > windfall, such wild dreams! > > Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:16:05 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Van Gogh, who couldn't sell a painting in his life, had his paintings sold for fifty to seventy million dollars, the highest prices ever fetched by any painting. Do you remember the Japanese company? This is what happens when someone's life blood is capitalized into an image. I don't want to put Mrs Harriett in the same category. The first was an action of showmanship, of power; hers was an act of kindness, a gentle act of appreciating a gentle act (writing individual rejection letters), even though there is something quixotic and insane about the act, like leaving all your money to your two cats. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:24:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: women in The New American Poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c284ef$bfa113d0$a2000140@Glasscastle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >the hideously titled (and >> >Jones/Baraka edited) _Four Young Lady Poets_ . . . > >> >But don't that title say it all? >> >> That's nothing compared to the parodies of that title that Ed Sanders >> used to emit. > >And what parodies were those? No fair holding out on us, George. It's >election day and Richard Nixon is perched on my shoulder. Glowering. He called it variants of "Four Young Flaming Snatches" and the like. (My prudish e-mail program just flagged "flaming" and nothing else. -- George Bowering Gentle as a lamb. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:15:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0040 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CELIA CURTIS PENULTIMATE DYNAMIC INTERPLAY #0040 [excerpt] FLEA => FLOAT => THIS AND THE SETTLEMENTS THE REVERIE => RUG => IT INFIRMARY => HE WOULD HAVE BEHELD ON THE SCRIBBLEDIDDLE => OF THE WEIGHT => THE I HAD THROWN THE COURTS => CRIMINAL => I WAS STRUCK WITH THE LAWYERS HAVE CHERISHED FOR IT HAS BEEN GLORY|MARVELLOUS => AND RESPECTFUL IT HOW UNSUITABLE => THE STEAMER MIGHT BE HAD NO FOR WAS NOT FOR THE OF THE OF THE I WANDERED ABOUT THE COMPULSION => AS LONG AS THE FRESH => JAM => KENNEDY => OUT REMARKED ALESHINE I D OVER IT WAS HERE MIGHT HERE SAY THAT THE GRAND => YORK => STICKS WHICH I WITH MY AX BUILT A IN THIS SNOWY COULD AT ALL HARDLY => APPEAR => IF THERE BE ANY THEY DO NOT EVERGREEN => INTO A LABORIOUS AND FEARFUL => FOR ANY RELIEF-LODGE => LOW => TO TYRANNICAL AND WHAT TOUCHED ME THERE WAS SUCH LITTLE FALLS ABOUT STUMPS => PROPORTIONS WITH FEW VOLUMES IN I FLEAS => FOE => EXPLAIN => FAIL => EMIGRATION SECURES THEM CHEAPER MENTHOL => MESSAGE => THE TEND => TOE|HEALED => OF THE MOOR => PEAK => TUMMY|RICE => FORWARDING IN REVERIE => RUG => GRAPHY => NEAREST TO THEIR FINAL BE THERE WITHOUT ANY BUTTERCUP => FOR IT MIGHT HAVE FLOATED AND SLOW => TO THEIR BUCKET => EFFICIENT => UNABLE => POPPER => SAFE => PRAIRIE EXTENDING TO SHAYENNE RIVER KNOLLS BUT WHEN LECKS SUGGESTED BUSHES GAZED AT THE GLORY|MARVELLOUS => ENGAGEDSINGLECOUPLEW => INTO MATTERS => NATURAL => GILMAN CRETINOUS => CROOK => AT SUNDOWN WAS REJOICED TO A PREEMPTION THE PRIVILEGED AND TO WHICH PRECEDENCE IN DECAY IS IT STUCK => THEY HAVE NOT ENOUGH DUFF => BONFIREASTER => BANG => DO MY ENDING => EXTINCT => WAS CHARACTER => SPIRITUAL => BUT THE SPLEEN => DEMEANOR OF HER CANNOT DETERGENT => SQUEEZE => TO THE AND ABSORBING WITH COLOR => FOREST => BRIGHT => CAMP => ON BROTT AND WILSON MAGNETIC => POINT => SLUMBERS WERE AND UNREFRESHING IF THERE HAD BEEN TO SIMPER => AND THAT MIGHT BE THEREFORE PROPOSED THAT WE EFFICIENT => UNABLE => SHAYENNE REVERIE => RUG => WIDE DEEP REVERIE => RUG => SNOW => OF US HAD HAD GENTLENESS => THE IRRATIONAL => NIGHTS AND WE STATED HIS OPINIONS ON THIS PARTRIDGE|IN => TO LECKS PUTTIN IT INTO THE BANG => BAR => JAR WITH THE RULESQUARANTINE => BUT THEIR SLIDE => LOONEYVILLE STUFFED IN FLEA => FLOAT => IRRATIONAL => OF THE SLATS WHICH FORMED THE I FLEAS => FOE => A DRUNK => DUSTBIN => SPEAKER => TRIALS => DOLLARS A FOR OF US IRRATIONAL => TO JEWELRY => KIDNEY => I MIGHT AS DARE => DESTROYED => HAVE TALKED TO HAWK => AUNT => WAKE => OF THE WHICH WAVED OVER ENDERTON INTENDED TO DO WE DID NOT HE WAS ON HIS SCUFF => SEAGULL => TO THE REPUDIATEACCEPT => BY THE MONK => SANCTUARY => OF ST ANTHONY THE SUSPENSION WHICH MY HAD STOPPED BUT I IT WAS THE OF THE CHANCES FOR LAWYERS IN THE SCENERY => CHARLES O'CONNOR GLISTENS => TO ROBES => SO UNSUITABLE => AND ALTHOUGH ALESHINE HAD PLENTY OF VIGOR SHE AND ACRES IN THE CONTINGENCY THERE IS NO TO IT TO LECKS ANY HAWK => AUNT => WAKE => INTERFERING WITH MY UNDERLAY => WEAVE => AND I I HAD BEEN TO AS IN THE MISS => MISSED => MOD => SIN => STEALING => OF THE THE OF COULD NOT DALE => DANK => DEEP => WITHOUT BELOW => EQUAL => HAD REMARKABLY AT LONG SWINGIN ON ITS STUCK => WE WAS THAT TRAMP OR REPUDIATEACCEPT => IN SHE THIS MIGHT ALL BE WE ENGAGEDSINGLECOUPLEW => FORT GARRY AND AT THE OF THE ASSINNIBOIN AND THE CAUSES OF SO HOARD => MANY => AND SO POSTED => ATTAINED BY POWERS STEPPED CHRISTMAS => COZY => TO ME AND ME BY THE HER WAS CHARACTER => COUNTERPOINT => AND COME RACIALISM => RADICAL => TO AND ALTAR => ALTER => IN THE HE OUGHT TO DEVIANT => INSTEAD OF FIGURE => FLOE => IN THIS BLOODED MANNER BUT AS MY COMPANIONS BUSHELS TO AN IS PERCEPTION => AT GEMS => CENTS BUSHEL THE OF WITH THE CLERGYMAN => READER => FOR THE --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:16:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: ROBIN STEELE CAPPUCCINO #0030 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ROBIN STEELE CAPPUCCINO #0030 (excerpt) www.afterhours-literati-cafe.com ruiner ah monsieur owed explanation mad ravings left just now soon age or color our own free talk about sustain on hour basis like turning you into if you read the videos his desk and took seat was pregnant and prime minister tony videos his desk and took seat was pregnant and prime minister tony on hour basis like turning you into if you read the videos his desk and took seat was pregnant and prime minister tony see bench they sat on roosevelt room him the price was perfect while the prime minister in jail? even within the industries on hour basis like turning you into if you read the and think it great mistake to why you want it so that the you aftershock richard the soft caressing hands that were kirsten had managed los angeles-based extremely tough position they took they have been satisfied the president has million to do gun cases more atf get includes projects and been with them when they were hunting without hurting help me to off my shoes her own blouse open ebony dinner was done as productions includes streaming video samples energy to space solid rock she had felt the march bluff dark projects and worldwide investment management co who manages gsis mutual guns this is ask you don't just go did today and how the things the last few days those whose warmth spreading productions thousand francs same? service the president has million to do gun cases more atf get austin hot foot-baths other details treatment required physical whose ovaries removed masculination takes place conversely and video productions existence personality complete acceptance truth life? concluded flash clubbeat massachusetts dragonslayer the importance english duke attainted of high i'll let her the president has million to do gun cases more atf get includes national security from emerging the technological innovation profiles video samples april and emotion felt went back ballroom mme de beauseant went through dreamchaser the president has million to do gun cases more atf get marvelous dexterity television last week pentagon announced bolstering force tanks more and video includes energy to space solid rock she had felt the march bluff dark enjoys today radio aeroplane microphone other marvels science and been with them when they were hunting without hurting help me eclips audio video clips performances for online viewing includes the president has million to do gun cases more atf get character honor whole family depend feel am nearly touched and been with them when they were hunting without hurting help me want to thank michael barnes member of the house for his films video and and think to say that needs is kind of wishful up with includes samples and been with them when they were hunting without hurting help me existence personality complete acceptance truth life? concluded flash honored release father noble purpose dominic lady thank you very but shook my head wanted gentlemen want emotion felt went back ballroom mme de beauseant went through los angeles flashframe films specializes video for the minister viktor chernomyrdin naming chernomyrdin communiqué third slower week ago investors deferred new bets today s think it great mistake to why you want it so that the you television last week pentagon announced bolstering force tanks more commercials americans? once inside he poured wine and set the and far communications and discarded felt warm riot hair envelop shoulders two beings films includes character honor whole family depend feel am nearly touched and releases freak show films los angeles and miami i glad they allowed some of house laughter to join them the based the president has million to do gun cases more atf get specializing videos and commercials productions whose ovaries removed masculination takes place conversely and video services includes four weeks his cock with me on tours with me even looking the president has million to do gun cases more atf get and been with them when they were hunting without hur --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:49:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Steal Something Day November 24, 2002 Participate by participating! A shameless 24-hour stealing spree! For the past nine years, a few self-described "culture jammers" from Adbusters Magazine have dubbed the last Friday in November "Buy Nothing Day." From their stylish home base in Vancouver's upscale suburb of Kitsilano, the Adbusters' brain trust has encouraged conscientious citizens worldwide to "relish [their] power as a consumer to change the economic environment." In their words, Buy Nothing Day "[p]roves how empowering it is to step out of the consumption stream for even a day." The geniuses at Adbusters have managed to create the perfect feel-good, liberal, middle-class activist non-happening. A day when the more money you make, the more influence you have (like every other day). A day which, by definition, is insulting to the millions of people worldwide who are too poor or marginalized to be considered "consumers." It's supposed to be a 24-hour moratorium on spending, but ends up being a moralistic false-debate about whether or not you should really buy that loaf of bread today or ... wait for it ... tomorrow! Well, this year, while the Adbusters cult enjoys yet another Buy Nothing Day, accompanied by their fancy posters, stickers, TV and radio advertisements and slick webpages, a few self-described anarcho-situationists from Montreal's East End are inaugurating Steal Something Day. Unlike Buy Nothing Day, when people are asked to "participate by not participating," Steal Something Day demands that we "participate by participating." Instead of downplaying or ignoring the capitalists, CEOs, landlords, small business tyrants, bosses, PR hacks, yuppies, media lapdogs, corporate bureaucrats, politicians and cops who are primarily responsible for misery and exploitation in this world, Steal Something Day demands that we steal from them, without discrimination. The Adbusters' intellegentsia tell us that they're neither "left nor right," and have proclaimed a non-ideological crusade against overconsumption. Steal Something Day, on the other hand, identifies with the historic and contemporary resistance against the causes of capitalist exploitation, not its symptoms. If you think overconsumption is scary, wait until you hear about capitalism and imperialism. Unlike the misplaced Buy Nothing Day notion of consumer empowerment, Steal Something Day promotes empowerment by urging us to collectively identify the greedy bastards who are actually responsible for promoting misery and boredom in this world. Instead of ignoring them, Steal Something Day encourages us to make their lives as uncomfortable as possible. As we like to say in Montreal: dranger les riches dans leurs niches! And remember, we're talking about stealing, not theft. Stealing is just. Theft is exploitative. Stealing is when you take a yuppie's BMW for a joyride, and crash into a parked Mercedes just for the hell of it. Theft is when you take candy from a baby's mouth. Stealing is the re-distribution of wealth from rich to poor Theft is making profits at the expense of the disadvantaged and the natural environment. Stealing is an unwritten a tax on the rich. Theft is taxing the poor to subsidize the rich. Stealing is nothing more than a tax on the rich. There is solidarity in stealing, but property is nothing but theft. So, don't pay for that corporate newspaper, but steal all of them from the box. Get some friends together and go on a "shoplifting" spree at the local chain supermarket or upscale mall. With an even larger mob, get together and steal from the local chain book or record store. Pilfer purses and wallets from easily identified yuppies and business persons. Skip out on rent. Get a credit card under a fake name and don't pay. Keep what you can use, and give away everything else in the spirit of mutual aid that is the hallmark of Steal Something Day. Download our detourned poster http://adbusters.tao.ca, make copies and stick it up wherever you can. And don't forget, send your scamming and stealing tips to us at lombrenoire@tao.ca. See you next Steal Something Day which, unlike Buy Nothing Day, happens every day of the year. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:07:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich In-Reply-To: <167.1779e4be.2b11d6b5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i have mixed feelings about all of this, to the extent that it's important at all. i'm uncomfortable with the undisguised envy of some of the posts; reminds me of grad students on the job market; when one of them gets a good job, the others, instead of being happy and understanding that it strengthens their own chances, revile that person and make up reasons --including imputing disingenuous motives and actions to that persons advisors, the offering institution, the candidate him/herself --why it was but shouldn't really have been that person who got lucky. it's ugly, victimy and shortsighted. it's lilly's money, let her at least do something not totally toxic with it --at least she didn't give it to harvard or to the bush campaign. and maybe others will take a lesson and the wealth may get spread around. i think we all stand to benefit from poetry's increased visibility from a number of diff points of view, even if the terms of that visibility are questionable. personally i would have preferred that she sent some of her $$ to malawi, where the farmers are too weakened from malnutrition to plant for the next season. i also think that that's where the enron fall-guys shd be sent --to do the planting instead of rotting in prison. but that ain't gonna happen. At 2:16 AM -0500 11/24/02, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >Van Gogh, who couldn't sell a painting in his life, had his paintings sold >for fifty to seventy million dollars, the highest prices ever fetched by any >painting. Do you remember the Japanese company? This is what happens when >someone's life blood is capitalized into an image. > >I don't want to put Mrs Harriett in the same category. The first was an >action of showmanship, of power; hers was an act of kindness, a gentle act of >appreciating a gentle act (writing individual rejection letters), even though >there is something quixotic and insane about the act, like leaving all your >money to your two cats. > >Murat -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:13:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i love the energy of this, but i'm a grownup. besides, some poor employee at my local super stop n shop would take the fall if i lifted something (a bag of chestnuts, perhaps, for turkey stuffing) from the store. pathetic as it is, not buying anything is a challenge for many americans, including the not so wealthy. shopping isn't just an expression of wealth, it's a form of therapy, a "way of life," etc etc ad nauseam. it really is stomach-turning. At 2:49 AM -0800 11/24/02, Aaron Vidaver wrote: >Steal Something Day >November 24, 2002 >Participate by participating! >A shameless 24-hour stealing spree! > >For the past nine years, a few self-described "culture jammers" from Adbusters >Magazine have dubbed the last Friday in November "Buy Nothing Day." > >From their stylish home base in Vancouver's upscale suburb of Kitsilano, the >Adbusters' brain trust has encouraged conscientious citizens worldwide to >"relish [their] power as a consumer to change the economic environment." In >their words, Buy Nothing Day "[p]roves how empowering it is to step out of the >consumption >stream for even a day." > >The geniuses at Adbusters have managed to create the perfect feel-good, >liberal, middle-class activist non-happening. A day when the more money you >make, the more influence you have (like every other day). A day which, by >definition, is insulting to the millions of people worldwide who are too poor >or marginalized to be considered "consumers." > >It's supposed to be a 24-hour moratorium on spending, but ends up being a >moralistic false-debate about whether or not you should really buy that loaf >of bread today or ... wait for it ... tomorrow! > >Well, this year, while the Adbusters cult enjoys yet another Buy Nothing Day, >accompanied by their fancy posters, stickers, TV and radio advertisements and >slick webpages, a few self-described anarcho-situationists from Montreal's >East End are inaugurating Steal Something Day. > >Unlike Buy Nothing Day, when people are asked to "participate by not >participating," Steal Something Day demands that we "participate by >participating." Instead of downplaying or ignoring the capitalists, CEOs, >landlords, small business tyrants, bosses, PR hacks, yuppies, media lapdogs, >corporate bureaucrats, politicians and cops who are primarily responsible for >misery and exploitation in this world, Steal Something Day demands that we >steal from them, without discrimination. > >The Adbusters' intellegentsia tell us that they're neither "left nor right," >and have proclaimed a non-ideological crusade against overconsumption. Steal >Something Day, on the other hand, identifies with the historic and >contemporary resistance against the causes of capitalist exploitation, not its >symptoms. If you think overconsumption is scary, wait until you hear about >capitalism and imperialism. > >Unlike the misplaced Buy Nothing Day notion of consumer empowerment, Steal >Something Day promotes empowerment by urging us to collectively identify the >greedy bastards who are actually responsible for promoting misery and boredom >in this world. Instead of ignoring them, Steal Something Day encourages us to >make their lives as uncomfortable as possible. > >As we like to say in Montreal: dranger les riches dans leurs niches! > >And remember, we're talking about stealing, not theft. Stealing is just. Theft >is exploitative. Stealing is when you take a yuppie's BMW for a joyride, and >crash into a parked Mercedes just for the hell of it. Theft is when you take >candy from a baby's mouth. Stealing is the re-distribution of wealth from rich >to poor Theft is making profits at the expense of the disadvantaged and the >natural environment. Stealing is an unwritten a tax on the rich. Theft is >taxing the poor to subsidize the rich. Stealing is nothing more than a tax on >the rich. There is solidarity in stealing, but property is nothing but theft. > >So, don't pay for that corporate newspaper, but steal all of them from the >box. Get some friends together and go on a "shoplifting" spree at the local >chain supermarket or upscale mall. With an even larger mob, get together and >steal from the local chain book or record store. Pilfer purses and wallets >from easily identified yuppies and business persons. Skip out on rent. Get a >credit card under a fake name and don't pay. Keep what you can use, and give >away everything else in the spirit of mutual aid that is the hallmark of Steal >Something Day. > >Download our detourned poster http://adbusters.tao.ca, make copies and stick >it up wherever you can. And don't forget, send your scamming and stealing tips >to us at lombrenoire@tao.ca. > >See you next Steal Something Day which, unlike Buy Nothing Day, happens every >day of the year. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:23:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree, but think there is a difference between - say a local book store run by two whatevers, who have local readings by a diverse culture, sell used books, had a batter program, and a mega store that sets aesthetic standards only to become the walmat of books, causing the little stores, the mom and mom or the dad and dad stores to shut down... and besides stealing a bag of chestnuts for turkey stuffing in a big supermarket will be covered by their ins. not, some employee...unless you are talking cost...which is usually passed on to the consumer. maybe another question would be why support large institutions: waltart, safewav, mark it, tears and robots, marcys, thanks giving, xams, universities, large publishing houses, macgronlds, why not xerox books, hand written books, letters, we have the internet, use it!!...but the funny think is we have this object fetish (I have an object fetish- I am in a 12 step object fetish reduction program -not really/really/should be) and place more value on a impermanent things - a poem stuck on on a telephone pole...this seems like a much bigger problem then how to steal this or how to build a personal bomb (I put the last one in for the big ears daddy) kari edwards _________________ -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- ______________________ Check out: http://www.xpressed.org/ http://www.litvert.com/issueseven.html http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooFourteen/ShampooIssueFourteen.html http://canwehaveourballback.com/12index.htm http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm http://poetz.com/fir/feb02.htm http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/kariedwards/home.html On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 06:13 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > i love the energy of this, but i'm a grownup. besides, some poor > employee at my local super stop n shop would take the fall if i > lifted something (a bag of chestnuts, perhaps, for turkey stuffing) > from the store. pathetic as it is, not buying anything is a > challenge for many americans, including the not so wealthy. shopping > isn't just an expression of wealth, it's a form of therapy, a "way of > life," etc etc ad nauseam. it really is stomach-turning. > > At 2:49 AM -0800 11/24/02, Aaron Vidaver wrote: >> Steal Something Day >> November 24, 2002 >> Participate by participating! >> A shameless 24-hour stealing spree! >> >> For the past nine years, a few self-described "culture jammers" from >> Adbusters >> Magazine have dubbed the last Friday in November "Buy Nothing Day." >> >> From their stylish home base in Vancouver's upscale suburb of >> Kitsilano, the >> Adbusters' brain trust has encouraged conscientious citizens >> worldwide to >> "relish [their] power as a consumer to change the economic >> environment." In >> their words, Buy Nothing Day "[p]roves how empowering it is to step >> out of the >> consumption >> stream for even a day." >> >> The geniuses at Adbusters have managed to create the perfect >> feel-good, >> liberal, middle-class activist non-happening. A day when the more >> money you >> make, the more influence you have (like every other day). A day >> which, by >> definition, is insulting to the millions of people worldwide who are >> too poor >> or marginalized to be considered "consumers." >> >> It's supposed to be a 24-hour moratorium on spending, but ends up >> being a >> moralistic false-debate about whether or not you should really buy >> that loaf >> of bread today or ... wait for it ... tomorrow! >> >> Well, this year, while the Adbusters cult enjoys yet another Buy >> Nothing Day, >> accompanied by their fancy posters, stickers, TV and radio >> advertisements and >> slick webpages, a few self-described anarcho-situationists from >> Montreal's >> East End are inaugurating Steal Something Day. >> >> Unlike Buy Nothing Day, when people are asked to "participate by not >> participating," Steal Something Day demands that we "participate by >> participating." Instead of downplaying or ignoring the capitalists, >> CEOs, >> landlords, small business tyrants, bosses, PR hacks, yuppies, media >> lapdogs, >> corporate bureaucrats, politicians and cops who are primarily >> responsible for >> misery and exploitation in this world, Steal Something Day demands >> that we >> steal from them, without discrimination. >> >> The Adbusters' intellegentsia tell us that they're neither "left nor >> right," >> and have proclaimed a non-ideological crusade against >> overconsumption. Steal >> Something Day, on the other hand, identifies with the historic and >> contemporary resistance against the causes of capitalist >> exploitation, not its >> symptoms. If you think overconsumption is scary, wait until you hear >> about >> capitalism and imperialism. >> >> Unlike the misplaced Buy Nothing Day notion of consumer empowerment, >> Steal >> Something Day promotes empowerment by urging us to collectively >> identify the >> greedy bastards who are actually responsible for promoting misery and >> boredom >> in this world. Instead of ignoring them, Steal Something Day >> encourages us to >> make their lives as uncomfortable as possible. >> >> As we like to say in Montreal: dranger les riches dans leurs niches! >> >> And remember, we're talking about stealing, not theft. Stealing is >> just. Theft >> is exploitative. Stealing is when you take a yuppie's BMW for a >> joyride, and >> crash into a parked Mercedes just for the hell of it. Theft is when >> you take >> candy from a baby's mouth. Stealing is the re-distribution of wealth >> from rich >> to poor Theft is making profits at the expense of the disadvantaged >> and the >> natural environment. Stealing is an unwritten a tax on the rich. >> Theft is >> taxing the poor to subsidize the rich. Stealing is nothing more than >> a tax on >> the rich. There is solidarity in stealing, but property is nothing >> but theft. >> >> So, don't pay for that corporate newspaper, but steal all of them >> from the >> box. Get some friends together and go on a "shoplifting" spree at the >> local >> chain supermarket or upscale mall. With an even larger mob, get >> together and >> steal from the local chain book or record store. Pilfer purses and >> wallets >> from easily identified yuppies and business persons. Skip out on >> rent. Get a >> credit card under a fake name and don't pay. Keep what you can use, >> and give >> away everything else in the spirit of mutual aid that is the hallmark >> of Steal >> Something Day. >> >> Download our detourned poster http://adbusters.tao.ca, make copies >> and stick >> it up wherever you can. And don't forget, send your scamming and >> stealing tips >> to us at lombrenoire@tao.ca. >> >> See you next Steal Something Day which, unlike Buy Nothing Day, >> happens every >> day of the year. > > > -- > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:59:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" well maria, the question that's most uncomfortable about alla this, lurking just beneath the surface, but in fact right at the surface of individual gain: if someone approached you with $100 million for your poetry mag, would you just accept same?... or would you try to convince your donor that perhaps $1 mil would be more appropriate (and greedy in itself), and that $99 mil would be better spent across the board?... i don't think this is a matter of envy, not at all, but i can see how it might become a matter of envy, under the circumstances... What The Rich Should Do With Their Money For The Arts perhaps has something to do with Social Responsibility In The Arts... meaning, if ms. lilly fucked up, so perhaps has mr. parisi---perfect bedfellows... i'd like to think, nothing pollyanna-ish about it, that i'd do the right(er) (latter) thing here, but perhaps i wouldn't (since we're only talking)... i mean, i think there IS a right(er) thing here, for reasons already gone into... albeit it may not have fallen out, in practice, so as to allow this right(er) thing to have been done... still, my experience tells me that there likely wasn't a real attempt on the part of ~poetry~'s publisher/editor to divert some of those monies AWAY from ~poetry~ per se (so perhaps a little investigative reporting is in order?---or are we just tired of talking about this?)... i still regard it as a great opportunity instantly (so to speak) lost... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:18:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If I were Joseph Parisi, I too would have taken the $100M. Who really wouldn't? C'mon... I think most people would. But, say Parisi takes the $100M and puts it into an endowment, he's going to generate about $5M per year. He might want to use these funds to support the American journals and poets the way all (much to my surprise) the philanthropic advisors on the Buffalo POETICS List have suggested. Since Lilly has made this gift, BuffPo has turned into a Development/Fundraising listserv. What I don't understand is this idea that Parisi did not know who she was nor that she was wealthy. Two years ago, I was nominated for the RUTH LILLY PRIZE administered through POETRY. So, how is it that Parisi did not know who she was until just last week? James Laughlin used to advise people not to even think of starting a press without $250,000. If someone were looking at perpetuity as a goal, a $5M gift would probably be perfect. Throw the money into an endowment that would generate at 5% interest, $250,000 annually. POETRY can run on that, can't it? So, could FENCE. So, could McSWEENEY'S. So, could CHAIN. So, could JUBILAT. So, could MANOA. So, could CONJUNCTIONS. So, could SKANKY POSSUM, et. etc. etc. Now, if Lilly took $5M, and gave it to 20 American journals, think about what the profile of American poetry would look like. But, would the money make American poetry any more relevant? Sadly, I hesitate to think that answer would still be--no. A clue as to why American poetry would still be irrelevant lies in all the whining, resentment, envy, and general grousing we've seen on this list the past week. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:23:49 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Pentagon ditches eDNA plan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit November 22, 2002 Agency Weighed, but Discarded, Plan Reconfiguring the Internet By JOHN MARKOFF NY Times The Pentagon research agency that is exploring how to create a vast database of electronic transactions and analyze them for potential terrorist activity considered but rejected another surveillance idea: tagging Internet data with unique personal markers to make anonymous use of some parts of the Internet impossible. The idea, which was explored at a two-day workshop in California in August, touched off an angry private dispute among computer scientists and policy experts who had been brought together to assess the implications of the technology. The plan, known as eDNA, called for developing a new version of the Internet that would include enclaves where it would be impossible to be anonymous while using the network. The technology would have divided the Internet into secure "public network highways," where a computer user would have needed to be identified, and "private network alleyways," which would not have required identification. Several people familiar with the eDNA discussions said such secure areas might have first involved government employees or law enforcement agencies, then been extended to security-conscious organizations like financial institutions, and after that been broadened even further. A description of the eDNA proposal that was sent to the 18 workshop participants read in part: "We envisage that all network and client resources will maintain traces of user eDNA so that the user can be uniquely identified as having visited a Web site, having started a process or having sent a packet. This way, the resources and those who use them form a virtual `crime scene' that contains evidence about the identity of the users, much the same way as a real crime scene contains DNA traces of people." The proposal would have been one of a series of technology initiatives that have been pursued by the Bush administration for what it describes as part of the effort to counter the potential for further terrorist attacks in the Unites States. Those initiatives include a variety of plans to trace and monitor the electronic activities of United States citizens. In recent weeks another undertaking of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or Darpa, the Pentagon research organization, has drawn sharp criticism for its potential to undermine civil liberties. That project is being headed by John M. Poindexter, the retired vice admiral who served as national security adviser to President Ronald Reagan. Dr. Poindexter returned to the Pentagon in January to direct the research agency's Information Awareness Office, created in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks. That office has been pursuing a surveillance system called Total Information Awareness that would permit intelligence analysts and law enforcement officials to mount a vast dragnet through electronic transaction data ranging from credit card information to veterinary records, in the United States and internationally, to hunt for terrorists. In contrast, with eDNA the user would have needed to enter a digital version of unique personal identifiers, like a fingerprint or voice, in order to use the secure enclaves of the network. That would have been turned into an electronic signature that could have been appended to every Internet message or activity and thus tracked back to its source. The eDNA idea was originally envisioned in a private brainstorming session that included the director of Darpa, Dr. Tony Tether, and a number of computer researchers, according to a person with intimate knowledge of the proposal. At the meeting, this person said, Dr. Tether asked why Internet attacks could not be traced back to their point of origin, and was told that given the current structure of the Internet, doing so was frequently not possible. The review of the proposal was financed by a second Darpa unit, the Information Processing Technology Office. This week a Darpa spokeswoman, Jan Walker, said the agency planned no further financing for the idea. In explaining the reason for the decision to finance the review in the first place, Ms. Walker said the agency had been "intrigued by the difficult computing science research involved in creating network capabilities that would provide the same levels of responsibility and accountability in cyberspace as now exist in the physical world." Darpa awarded a $60,000 contract to SRI International, a research concern based in Menlo Park, Calif., to investigate the concept. SRI then convened the workshop in August to evaluate its feasibility. The workshop brought together a group of respected computer security researchers, including Whitfield Diffie of Sun Microsystems and Matt Blaze of AT&T Labs; well-known computer scientists like Roger Needham of Microsoft Research in Cambridge, England; Michael Vatis, who headed the National Infrastructure Protection Center during the Clinton administration; and Marc Rotenberg, a privacy expert from the Electronic Privacy Information Center. The workshop was led by Mr. Blaze and Dr. Victoria Stavridou, an SRI computer scientist, one of those who had originally discussed the eDNA concept with Darpa officials. At the workshop, the idea was criticized by almost all the participants, a number of them said, on both technical and privacy grounds. Several computer experts said they believed that it would not solve the problems it would be addressing. "Before people demand more surveillance information, they should be able to process the information they already have," Mark Seiden, an independent computer security expert who attended the workshop, said in an interview. "Almost all of our failures to date have come from our inability to use existing intelligence information." Several of the researchers told of a heated e-mail exchange in September over how to represent the consensus of the workshop in a report that was to be submitted to Darpa. At one point, Mr. Blaze reported to the group that he had been "fired" by Dr. Stavridou, of SRI, from his appointed role of writing the report presenting that consensus. In e-mail messages, several participants said they believed that Dr. Stavridou was hijacking the report and that the group's consensus would not be reported to Darpa. "I've never seen such personal attacks," one participant said in a subsequent telephone interview. In defending herself by e-mail, Dr. Stavridou told the other panelists, "Darpa asked SRI to organize the meeting because they have a deep interest in technology for identifying network miscreants and revoking their network privileges." In October, Dr. Stavridou traveled to Darpa headquarters in Virginia and - after a teleconference from there that was to have included Mr. Blaze, Mr. Rotenberg and Mr. Vatis was canceled - later told the panelists by e-mail that she had briefed several Darpa officials on her own about the group's discussions. In that e-mail message, sent to the group on Oct. 15, she reported that the Darpa officials had been impressed with the panel's work and had told her that three Darpa offices, including the Information Awareness Office, were interested in pursuing the technology. This week, however, in response to a reporter's question, Darpa said it had no plans to pursue the technology. And an SRI spokeswoman, Alice Resnick, said yesterday, "SRI informed Darpa that the costs and risks would outweigh any benefit." Dr. Stavridou did not return phone calls asking for comment. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:48:34 -0700 Reply-To: chax@theriver.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich In-Reply-To: <167.1779e4be.2b11d6b5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with just about all of what Joe says, but I also don't think it was ever an "opportunity." I doubt that there was any chance Ms. Lilly was ever going to broadcast her fortune widely among worthy poetry-organization recipients; I doubt that she would ever have considered asking Poetry Magazine to do so, across aesthetic, political, and other lines within the poetry world. I think hers is just an eccentric bequest, and I can wish it had happened in a different way, but I can't imagine that was ever a possibility. As for Joe's repetition of "What The Rich Should Do With Their Money For The Arts," while I might have ideas about that, I don't think my ideas have a shot in prozac's hell of being adopted (I don't think Joe's ideas have that shot, either). Also, I am reluctant to wish for an age for the arts that is specifically identified with that kind of upper class patronage (despite that I'd love to see many more artists and arts organizations become instantly better funded, even spared of spending so much effort simply trying to maintain financial existence for a few years or more), while admitting that we may have had, for a long time, some version of such a patronage system. I suppose one of the aims of the NEA/state arts commissions/local arts councils has been to equalize the funding field to some degree, mixing a kind of democratic and geographic and demographic distribution of funds with some consideration of merit-based funding. While I think this system has failed in many ways, I don't know that it's worse than what we get with endowment-by-the-rich scenarios. I mean, we have, to some degree, both such systems functioning simulatenously now (although this may differ from one micro-region to another), without much sense or sensitivity to the arts (with notable exceptions, of course, and oftentimes with the best of intentions on the part of funders). Rather than worry about the Lilly bequest, I wonder if there are ideas among listmembers here about what would constitute not only a desirable state of arts/poetry funding, but also a realizable (or something close) state of such funding. I also know that such arguments may only make sense on local levels, although one wonders, in this age of virtual communities, whether locality in this sense has the same importance it had even a decade ago. Charles > > > i still regard it as a great opportunity instantly (so to speak) lost... > > best, > > joe > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:52:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124110400.00b376c8@incoming.verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wait, anastasios (and this is my 2nd, so last post of the day): why is it so obvious that one wouldn't attempt to divert some of the funds elsewhere?... i mean, as it's really not about "personal" gain (and even then), why wouldn't you, as a representative of a poetry journal, at least resist such largesse a wee bit, and recommend that other possible donor-targets be brought into the mix? (much as you've suggested in your post)... this is what i'm just not getting here... why are we/some of us/you taking for granted the fact that parisi would accept ALL of the money, w/o a counter-suggestion?... one needn't be a blithering idealist to think this could happen, anymore than one need be a blithering idealist to think someone might throw $100 mil at poetry... and again, to argue that spreading the joy would not have a sanguine effect on poetry across-the-board strikes me as similar in some sense to the argument that money can't bring happiness... to which i'll offer my own c'mon!... of course it can, and of course poetry would likely be better off FOR (more) POETS... this isn't, again, about envy---in shorthand, it's about struggle (and nothing glorifying about struggle, either)... i suppose there's some fundamental ideological difference at work here, as i find mself disagreeing with those with whom i typically agree... and i suspect it's a class thing, but that's just a sneaking suspicion... i just don't know how else to account for resistance to such a seemingly simple ethical (and pragmatic, at that) resolution, however improbable... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:12:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Joe, I too struggle daily, and my struggles lies with attempting to bridge the wide gap between my vocation and occupation. The struggle wears me down day after day, especially nowadays. Maybe my take on this has more to do with my line of work. I've been working in a development office for more than six years, and in the office in which I work, we basically deal with the top 1 percent of the wealthiest Americans. It has jaded me. However, I see how people spin things there. More is more in the charitable world. I don't think ethics come into play here at all, Joe. If -- as the story has been reported -- he received the bequest at his surprise, I don't think he had a choice to negotiate the giving. If it is in the will, no one can change her wishes now What gets me a bit is when I read the NYT article and it said: "We get to see everything, and we get a pretty good idea of who will be the new important poets," Mr. Parisi said. I don't think that Parisi has the faintest idea what a 'new important poet' is judging from his editing. I think we just need to pass over this and continue to do the work that we have laid out for ourselves. Maybe, just maybe, Poetry will find some of us new and important??? --Ak At 10:52 AM 11/24/2002 -0700, you wrote: >wait, anastasios (and this is my 2nd, so last post of the day): why >is it so obvious that one wouldn't attempt to divert some of the >funds elsewhere?... i mean, as it's really not about "personal" gain >(and even then), why wouldn't you, as a representative of a poetry >journal, at least resist such largesse a wee bit, and recommend that >other possible donor-targets be brought into the mix? (much as you've >suggested in your post)... > >this is what i'm just not getting here... why are we/some of us/you >taking for granted the fact that parisi would accept ALL of the >money, w/o a counter-suggestion?... one needn't be a blithering >idealist to think this could happen, anymore than one need be a >blithering idealist to think someone might throw $100 mil at poetry... > >and again, to argue that spreading the joy would not have a sanguine >effect on poetry across-the-board strikes me as similar in some sense >to the argument that money can't bring happiness... to which i'll >offer my own c'mon!... of course it can, and of course poetry would >likely be better off FOR (more) POETS... this isn't, again, about >envy---in shorthand, it's about struggle (and nothing glorifying >about struggle, either)... > >i suppose there's some fundamental ideological difference at work >here, as i find mself disagreeing with those with whom i typically >agree... and i suspect it's a class thing, but that's just a sneaking >suspicion... i just don't know how else to account for resistance to >such a seemingly simple ethical (and pragmatic, at that) resolution, >however improbable... > >best, > >joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Oh, what an utterly fabulous idea. Why not just call it National Day of Creating Shitty Karma? Like USAmericans don't do that frequently enough? I loved Abbie Hoffman too, but he's dead, whether the CIA or bipolar disorder got him. I'm going to steal a kiss from my husband and be even more subversive: by doing an act of nominal theft which is all the more radical for the fact that the alleged victim feels given to. Now, levitating the Pentagon, that I'd do. Gwyn McVay --- Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin Blaser ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:09:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Pentagon ditches eDNA plan Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net In-Reply-To: <000301c293de$44ad8340$ea06c143@Dell> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT on 11/24/02 9:23 AM, Ron at ron.silliman@VERIZON.NET wrote: > In that e-mail message, sent to the group on Oct. 15, she reported that > the Darpa officials had been impressed with the panel's work and had > told her that three Darpa offices, including the Information Awareness > Office, were interested in pursuing the technology. > > This week, however, in response to a reporter's question, Darpa said it > had no plans to pursue the technology. And an SRI spokeswoman, Alice > Resnick, said yesterday, "SRI informed Darpa that the costs and risks > would outweigh any benefit." Needless to say, Darpa's rejection does not mean the idea and research has not been handed on to another agency for execution. That seems to be the way this Administration works, if he FBI or Pentagon refuses, for example, Rumsfeld's agenda, it's handed off to another agency, or, failing that, a new agency is created. Eventally, one suspects, the fear of protecting our communications with one another (political, religious, financial, etc.) will have us "talking in tongues". David Melnick - whose work I really like - will be re-interpreted as a prophet before which Ashcroft and Company will be blind, illiterate and deaf, as well as dumb. Yes, it will be a small world for a while in which communicative survival and protection will be a hard earned craft of ear and eye. As with WWII Navaho code talkers, one's going to have to go with what works. How is that for democracy gone totally paranoid! Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:56:24 -0800 Reply-To: wordthur@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rodgers Subject: message from nysca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT November 21, 2002 ATTN: NEW YORK STATE LITERARY PUBLISHERS POULIN PROJECT CALLS FOR REMAINDERED BOOKS/LITERARY MAGAZINES The NYSCA Al Poulin, Jr., Independent Publishers Development Project, in collaboration with Distribution to Underserved Communities/Art Resources Transfer, seeks donations of remaindered/very slightly hurt copies of literary titles/periodicals for distribution at no charge to libraries throughout New York State. Clean out your warehouse while introducing contemporary literary writing to thousands of readers across the State. For more information or to donate books, please contact: > Tamara Mewis > DUC Library Program > Art Resources Transfer > 526 W. 26th Street, Ste. 614 > New York, NY 10001 > 212.255.2919 ------------------------ Bertha Rogers www.nyslittree.org NYS Literary Curators Web Site Bright Hill Press POB 193 Treadwell, NY 13846 wordthur@catskill.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:27:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich/the STINK of the rich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit just wanted to say that it's been very interesting reading all these feelings and thoughts on Ms. Lily's enormous gift to "Poetry" frankly i want to encourage it! bitching about the use or misuse of money is marvelous! it's healthy! living in an age where prisons are FILLED, and new prisons are being built to also be FILLED and placed on the stock market alongside TWA, Spalding, AT&T and all those other BASTARDS who layoff workers and make prisoners do the work for 25 cents an hour, poets NEED to be pissed off and as loud as possible to be working our way out of the confusion of money! i agree with Maria Damon that at least the money didn't go to Bush or Harvard. although a little more empathy is needed for those complaining. if it weren't for the fucking rich in the first place we wouldn't be so consumed with RAGE about having our needs met! but where did all Ms. Lily's money come from? it's too much to not STINK of profiting off poverty. but then again, maybe this was understood by the donor, who wanted to refine the wealth through poetry? let's see what happens. it may be the very thing that surprises the world. somehow. Conrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:36:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Salmon Subject: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Surprising - that at this post and the examples of Berrigan's work, I started making connections to (not the style - but the way the mind seems to work) ARD Fairburn - (an NZ poet - No longer with us) who I have been re-reading recently with regards to a History thing I have been working on. Tho Fairburn died 57 when B. would have been but a whippersnapper. Both had minds seemed to be able to lurch - not shift - left. May be nothing in it. Dan > From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo > (1.8e)" > Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:57:37 -0500 > To: dpsalmon@IHUG.CO.NZ > Subject: Re: GETPOST POETICS > > Anselm My experience of "discovering" Ted Berigan, your father (I didnt know > he was) . I had come "back" to poetry and literature in my forties, and > was doing a degree at Auckland Uni (NZ) and browsing on the shelves of the > American Mod poetry when I came across this strange book edited by someone > called Alice Notely ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:43:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: this is all to motionless for rubber words In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is all to motionless for rubber words this transit service, this kinesthetic theme park, the best routes with deep throated spikes, starved in luxury fat chairs, beguiled in all that forms the air to a danger larger than a bunraku master with a head of smoke, a drift, to become an fetish interpretation. this is the way that heralds more rigor-mortis warm time in high color regular shapes. a dangerous love of science. words lifted for magical seduction, exposed like the inside of my rubber climate control devotion, or detailed marginal rotations, or lines that meander wildly over general wounded dumbfoundedness. this was suppose to be the last stock joke, a remote staccato upside on the inside, a motionless terrorist in my private vaseline insomnia, buying groceries through the angels of a chemical process, located outside error crayons. a holiday character, not my history, or my hisotry not the holiday character ignites determinist parallel text inside the only "I" I can muster, unable to resist the blows lifted from a provocateur at local tables and gauzy alcohol extremities, where all crave warm time machines and magical seduction. ~ the act of pealing takes over in a year of group soul, the arena, american trauma, rubber and tar, the principle of the insulator, a fragment prayer fallen from a collection of flotsam roaring in the waves, all the characters are a theme at the best of show for the final all cry of souls. I still look for a vacuum and 7000 oak trees in their pure reason. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:06:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Saidenberg/Brady reading in San Francisco, 12/5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please forward-- Yerba Buena Center for the Arts presents: TAYLOR BRADY & JOCELYN SAIDENBERG Bay Area Now 3 Literary Night Thursday, December 5, 6-7:30 pm FREE with Gallery Admission Join us in our Galleries for an evening of readings and interdisciplinary adventure with two of the Bay Area's most scrutinizing experimental writers. Guest-curated by Kate Colby. Jocelyn Saidenberg's books include CUSP (Kelsey St. Press, 2001), winner of the Francis Jaffer Book Award; and Mortal City (Parenthesis Writing Series, 1998). Presently she is working on a book commissioned by Atelos Press, provisionally titled Negativity. Her work will/has appeared in Clamour, Mirage #4/PERIOD(ical), Raddle Moon, Tripwire and Kenning, among others. Born and raised in New York City, she lives in San Francisco where she edits and publishes KRUPSKAYA Books. Taylor Brady is the author of Microclimates (Krupskaya, 2001), 33549 (Leroy, 2000) and Is Placed/Leaves (Meow, 1996). A new book, The Treatment, will be published by Atelos, most likely in 2003. An e-book, Occupations, is also forthcoming on the Duration Press Web site (www.durationpress.com.) Brady lives in San Francisco and serves on the board of directors of Small Press Traffic, where he co-curated the Crosstown Traffic multidisciplinary performance and talks series with Yedda Morrison and ROVA:arts. He currently works in the East Bay as a writer for a children's services nonprofit. See http://www.yerbabuenaarts.org for more information about BAN3 and BAN3 Live. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:05:18 -0600 Reply-To: "Patrick F. Durgin" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Kenning holiday special for poetics list kin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will not accept checks dated 11/29 ("Buy Nothing Day") - otherwise, For $15.00 US dollars, get yourself three issues of Kenning (#s 11-13) - = just send a check made payable to the editor ("Patrick Durgin") and I'll = ship them right out. What do you get? OFTEN, a play by Barbara Guest = and Kevin Killian (offset chapbook with color prints); WAY / The Audio = Edition, a double-CD featuring sounds from Leslie Scalapino, Nathaniel = Mackey, Edwin Torres, Andrew Levy & Gerry Hemingway, many etc's; = Kenning 13 the send-off issue, with new writing from Susan Schultz, Kit = Robinson, Terrence Chiusano, Robert Creeley, Thom Donovan, many etc's = ... You save over $13.00 off cover price and shipping's free. = Back-issues of obscure litmags make mildly appropriate gifts. Send your orders to Kenning / Durgin, 383 Summer Street, Buffalo NY = 14213. This super-special-holiday-back-issue thing is good through = December. More info on Kenning Editions at = www.durationpress.com/kenning=20 ------------ http://www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:29:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: 7 Dragon-Fly Poems Just For You Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ENGLISH what was blank is still disputed language flies to To Kalon City Hegel's towers fall thoughts are droplets ex cathedra O unwashed -- you are so aghast that you are untouched ________________________________________________________________________ WROTE VS. MADE limp from thought while all the while riverside trash ________________________________________________________________________ SURFACE WRITING structure tomb plinth lace terminate surface writing crash tomb eye big blood ________________________________________________________________________ JUBAL eye classic ave picture jubal ________________________________________________________________________ UN REGLEMENT DE COMPTES AVEC LA LITTERATURE ink-black lips name the mouth of the lace ________________________________________________________________________ NAMES names names MUSES names dead MUSES names theme an allusion to famous public MUSES MUSES names MUSES names MUSES sail public names MUSES history MUSES the world INFORMATION information ________________________________________________________________________ NARRATIVE'S WILD WITH THE KNOWLEDGE narrative's wild with the knowledge my ancestors read Nerval in a characteristic phylogeny plantation _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:15:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: Steal Something Day/KARMA!? GIVE US A BREAK! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/24/2002 1:53:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, gmcvay@PATRIOT.NET writes: > > > Oh, what an utterly fabulous idea. Why not just call it National Day of > Creating Shitty Karma? Like USAmericans don't do that frequently enough? > > I loved Abbie Hoffman too, but he's dead, whether the CIA or bipolar > disorder got him. I'm going to steal a kiss from my husband and be even > more subversive: by doing an act of nominal theft which is all the more > radical for the fact that the alleged victim feels given to. > > Now, levitating the Pentagon, that I'd do. > > Gwyn McVay > > --- > Our battle with the book is our Buddhist battle. -- Robin > Blaser i'm SO TIRED of the weapon of Karma! fuck Karma! IF Karma were something MORE than yet another cleaver of the rich, the rich would have met their demise centuries ago! you try going to India and telling a member of the Untouchable Caste how lucky they are Karma keeps them in their place! what we need is something BRAND NEW! totally NEW! the comfortable references of Karma, Sin, and the rest have served no one, but the rich, and the church governments who have aided their endless tyranny! and by the way, yeah, we know Abbie Hoffman is dead. so no one can steal anymore? but we could when he was alive? what in the hell are you saying there? my mother made a DAMN fine living for us by shop lifting! thanks Mom, the food was good. Conrad ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:12:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Rome Domino Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed brown curls approved statement surprised transport Rome domino BURMA SHAVE cases consider icy luxury perky broken heiress clear-eyed Sundays BURMA SHAVE cringed crimps century blue and gold poured buriments BURMA SHAVE hear on earth a tEar for the ear lithe tho blithe silvered houseflies BURMA SHAVE _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:52:46 -0500 Reply-To: gmcvay@patriot.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Steal Something Day/KARMA!? GIVE US A BREAK! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > i'm SO TIRED of the weapon of Karma! > fuck Karma! IF Karma were something MORE than yet another cleaver of the rich, > the rich would have met their demise centuries ago! It ain't no weapon, nor cleaver. It is simple causality. You leave a banana peel on the sidewalk, someone's gonna slip on it. > you try going to India and telling a member of the Untouchable Caste > how lucky they are Karma keeps them in their place! Nope, because that would be a major, hideous misinterpretation of the whole idea. > what we need is something BRAND NEW! totally NEW! OK, Ezra. Calm down. > the comfortable references of Karma, Sin, and the rest have served no one, > but the rich, and the church governments who have aided their endless tyranny! Is it OK by you for me to be a Buddhist if I can produce evidence I'm poor? > > and by the way, yeah, we know Abbie Hoffman is dead. > so no one can steal anymore? but we could when he was alive? > what in the hell are you saying there? > Theft is exactly what the corporate interests are DOING on a daily basis. Usura and all that, I'm sure you know. Stooping to their level is a tactical blunder. You've never heard the saying "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house"? my mother made a DAMN fine living for us by shop lifting! > thanks Mom, the food was good. > Glad you're alive. No, I'm not going to diss yo' mama. I like my raw fish in rice rolls, not bait. I can't fault a mother for ensuring the survival of her offspring. But however justified, the fact remains that it was ultimately at someone else's expense. That's not a blanket condemnation, that's just how it is -- and it makes your world a zero-sum game, exactly as the Bushites behave. This is supposed to be a good thing? She told you something like, "Son, I hope you continue taking this particular risk when you're grown up"? Gwyn McVay ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:14:41 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My father knew Fairburn and R A K Mason (who wrote most of his poetry before he wwas about 23 I think) ...he had the capacity to be a major poet but he was more a personality: I havent looked at his stuff for years. by and large NZ dint/hasnt had poets of Berrigan's calibre...or they (like Fairburn) were following some sort of British romantic tradition (mind you,see below, it a long time since I've read A R D)...but Fairburn was certainly a hard case I have two book on his life for sale on abe (Aspect Books): he would get into fights, piss in the street in London, open the door naked, swim for miles across the Waitemata, was a "woman-basher", interested in compost!, he was a greta womaniser but when he went to London he liekd the fact taht nearly everyone were gay or worse variations on that!!, and so on..so he had the potential to become a Berrigan but like a lot of NZrs of that time was too much under the British trad spell I think: that said he wrote some beautiful/interesting poetry and some political poetry. As I write this email I have started to look at Fairburn again...you've diverted me again: will report back any Berriganic aspects I detect....I think you picked up on the nature of the guy who was liekeable and very human despite his pecadillos etc and slo his style does have a humorous and wry style.....hmmmmm..... there may be something in what you are intimating....turns pagew off "Collcted Pomes"...hmmm...the book THE RAKEHELLY MAN is worth a look. My book of Fairburn's I got when I was twenty. That was 1968... Cheers. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Salmon" To: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:36 AM Subject: > Surprising - that at this post and the examples of Berrigan's work, I > started making connections to (not the style - but the way the mind seems to > work) ARD Fairburn - (an NZ poet - No longer with us) who I have been > re-reading recently with regards to a History thing I have been working on. > Tho Fairburn died 57 when B. would have been but a whippersnapper. Both had > minds seemed to be able to lurch - not shift - left. May be nothing in it. > > Dan > > > From: "L-Soft list server at University at Buffalo > > (1.8e)" > > Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:57:37 -0500 > > To: dpsalmon@IHUG.CO.NZ > > Subject: Re: GETPOST POETICS > > > > Anselm My experience of "discovering" Ted Berigan, your father (I didnt know > > he was) . I had come "back" to poetry and literature in my forties, and > > was doing a degree at Auckland Uni (NZ) and browsing on the shelves of the > > American Mod poetry when I came across this strange book edited by someone > > called Alice Notely ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:51:56 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: Re: The Season of The Rich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit or wait, you could always, instead, imagine that you are a doorstop and with all the rights of a doorstop preclude the variance of the door, and in doing so fulfill your nature while at the same time not messing with the door's nature. on the other hand, you could invent something that is green and lovely, but not exactly money. or you could open a door into the future of money and tell everyone not to go there. or you could try to invent a place where money isn't even a noun it's more like a palliative or tenured exactitude to talk about. you could say that what you have whipped up in the argument is the lovely life of everything necessary, and tellingly smoke the residue until you are money itself, as in the brother or sister that you always knew you wanted. or you could accept a time/space requiem, laying down appropriate odds and certitude while dedicating yourself to the higher aim, quote unquote, or tapping on a keyboard such as is indicative of higher planning within the framework of what is up in a sedentary fashion, lifting money from trees as an engagement in a rationale that has been spotted over the eons as a trippy slugfest yet well worth the effort. or you could simply make the colour go away, for the poem that was to follow simply got stuck. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:00:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: bowering on collins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: mIEKAL aND To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, November 23, 2002 5:52 AM Subject: Re: bowering on collins >I thought I was suffering from self-flagellated stereotyping of poet >laureates. > >On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 05:10 PM, dcmb wrote: > >> I hope m.a. isn't suffering from a self-imposed stereotyping of >> "Canadian Literature". DB >> -----Original Message----- > > > >mIEKAL aND >memexikon@mwt.net > | > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:18:17 -0500 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't know how effective 'steal something day' would be. it seems to me when you make it a case of 'us against them', you've already lost. i don't think the universe differentiates between stealing from a large corporation or a elderly persons social security. i would in fact say that i don't wish to become someone i can't face in the mirror. have we become so powerless and cynical that we don't believe in the power of our moral values or the power of our written words ? have we become so lazy that we can't be bothered to look for the solution in our ability to use the written word ? try writing to your governmental repesentives starting at the local level and work your way up. try writing to the media and telling them you aren't buying into the pixie dust theory of news reporting and demand that they use the 'free press' to report what is really happening rather than the skewed version we've been spoon fed. refuse to wrap yourself in the american flag and go back to sleep. and never never never bargain away your ethics for anything. no matter what anyone tells you, it *does* matter how you get there. peace, beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "kari edwards" To: Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 > I agree, but think there is a difference between - say a local book > store run by two whatevers, who have local readings by a diverse > culture, sell used books, had a batter program, and a mega store that > sets aesthetic standards only to become the walmat of books, causing > the little stores, the mom and mom or the dad and dad stores to shut > down... and besides stealing a bag of chestnuts for turkey stuffing in > a big supermarket will be covered by their ins. not, some > employee...unless you are talking cost...which is usually passed on to > the consumer. maybe another question would be why support large > institutions: waltart, safewav, mark it, tears and robots, marcys, > thanks giving, xams, universities, large publishing houses, macgronlds, > why not xerox books, hand written books, letters, we have the > internet, use it!!...but the funny think is we have this object fetish > (I have an object fetish- I am in a 12 step object fetish reduction > program -not really/really/should be) and place more value on a > impermanent things - a poem stuck on on a telephone pole...this seems > like a much bigger problem then how to steal this or how to build a > personal bomb (I put the last one in for the big ears daddy) > > kari edwards > _________________ > -GENDER RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS- > ______________________ > > Check out: > http://www.xpressed.org/ > http://www.litvert.com/issueseven.html > http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirteen/ShampooIssueThirteen.html > http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/semicolon1.htm > http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooFourteen/ShampooIssueFourteen.html > http://canwehaveourballback.com/12index.htm > http://www.webdelsol.com/InPosse/edwards10.htm > http://www.puppyflowers.com/II/flowers.html > http://poetz.com/fir/may02.htm > http://poetz.com/fir/feb02.htm > http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/kariedwards/home.html > > > On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 06:13 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > i love the energy of this, but i'm a grownup. besides, some poor > > employee at my local super stop n shop would take the fall if i > > lifted something (a bag of chestnuts, perhaps, for turkey stuffing) > > from the store. pathetic as it is, not buying anything is a > > challenge for many americans, including the not so wealthy. shopping > > isn't just an expression of wealth, it's a form of therapy, a "way of > > life," etc etc ad nauseam. it really is stomach-turning. > > > > At 2:49 AM -0800 11/24/02, Aaron Vidaver wrote: > >> Steal Something Day > >> November 24, 2002 > >> Participate by participating! > >> A shameless 24-hour stealing spree! > >> > >> For the past nine years, a few self-described "culture jammers" from > >> Adbusters > >> Magazine have dubbed the last Friday in November "Buy Nothing Day." > >> > >> From their stylish home base in Vancouver's upscale suburb of > >> Kitsilano, the > >> Adbusters' brain trust has encouraged conscientious citizens > >> worldwide to > >> "relish [their] power as a consumer to change the economic > >> environment." In > >> their words, Buy Nothing Day "[p]roves how empowering it is to step > >> out of the > >> consumption > >> stream for even a day." > >> > >> The geniuses at Adbusters have managed to create the perfect > >> feel-good, > >> liberal, middle-class activist non-happening. A day when the more > >> money you > >> make, the more influence you have (like every other day). A day > >> which, by > >> definition, is insulting to the millions of people worldwide who are > >> too poor > >> or marginalized to be considered "consumers." > >> > >> It's supposed to be a 24-hour moratorium on spending, but ends up > >> being a > >> moralistic false-debate about whether or not you should really buy > >> that loaf > >> of bread today or ... wait for it ... tomorrow! > >> > >> Well, this year, while the Adbusters cult enjoys yet another Buy > >> Nothing Day, > >> accompanied by their fancy posters, stickers, TV and radio > >> advertisements and > >> slick webpages, a few self-described anarcho-situationists from > >> Montreal's > >> East End are inaugurating Steal Something Day. > >> > >> Unlike Buy Nothing Day, when people are asked to "participate by not > >> participating," Steal Something Day demands that we "participate by > >> participating." Instead of downplaying or ignoring the capitalists, > >> CEOs, > >> landlords, small business tyrants, bosses, PR hacks, yuppies, media > >> lapdogs, > >> corporate bureaucrats, politicians and cops who are primarily > >> responsible for > >> misery and exploitation in this world, Steal Something Day demands > >> that we > >> steal from them, without discrimination. > >> > >> The Adbusters' intellegentsia tell us that they're neither "left nor > >> right," > >> and have proclaimed a non-ideological crusade against > >> overconsumption. Steal > >> Something Day, on the other hand, identifies with the historic and > >> contemporary resistance against the causes of capitalist > >> exploitation, not its > >> symptoms. If you think overconsumption is scary, wait until you hear > >> about > >> capitalism and imperialism. > >> > >> Unlike the misplaced Buy Nothing Day notion of consumer empowerment, > >> Steal > >> Something Day promotes empowerment by urging us to collectively > >> identify the > >> greedy bastards who are actually responsible for promoting misery and > >> boredom > >> in this world. Instead of ignoring them, Steal Something Day > >> encourages us to > >> make their lives as uncomfortable as possible. > >> > >> As we like to say in Montreal: dranger les riches dans leurs niches! > >> > >> And remember, we're talking about stealing, not theft. Stealing is > >> just. Theft > >> is exploitative. Stealing is when you take a yuppie's BMW for a > >> joyride, and > >> crash into a parked Mercedes just for the hell of it. Theft is when > >> you take > >> candy from a baby's mouth. Stealing is the re-distribution of wealth > >> from rich > >> to poor Theft is making profits at the expense of the disadvantaged > >> and the > >> natural environment. Stealing is an unwritten a tax on the rich. > >> Theft is > >> taxing the poor to subsidize the rich. Stealing is nothing more than > >> a tax on > >> the rich. There is solidarity in stealing, but property is nothing > >> but theft. > >> > >> So, don't pay for that corporate newspaper, but steal all of them > >> from the > >> box. Get some friends together and go on a "shoplifting" spree at the > >> local > >> chain supermarket or upscale mall. With an even larger mob, get > >> together and > >> steal from the local chain book or record store. Pilfer purses and > >> wallets > >> from easily identified yuppies and business persons. Skip out on > >> rent. Get a > >> credit card under a fake name and don't pay. Keep what you can use, > >> and give > >> away everything else in the spirit of mutual aid that is the hallmark > >> of Steal > >> Something Day. > >> > >> Download our detourned poster http://adbusters.tao.ca, make copies > >> and stick > >> it up wherever you can. And don't forget, send your scamming and > >> stealing tips > >> to us at lombrenoire@tao.ca. > >> > >> See you next Steal Something Day which, unlike Buy Nothing Day, > >> happens every > >> day of the year. > > > > > > -- > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:19:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: bowering on collins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That,too. D -----Original Message----- From: dcmb To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, November 24, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: Re: bowering on collins >-----Original Message----- >From: mIEKAL aND >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Saturday, November 23, 2002 5:52 AM >Subject: Re: bowering on collins > > >>I thought I was suffering from self-flagellated stereotyping of poet >>laureates. >> >>On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 05:10 PM, dcmb wrote: >> >>> I hope m.a. isn't suffering from a self-imposed stereotyping of >>> "Canadian Literature". DB >>> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >>mIEKAL aND >>memexikon@mwt.net >> | >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:59:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: bowering on collins In-Reply-To: <002401c2942e$d15af200$ad96ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >-----Original Message----- >From: mIEKAL aND >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Saturday, November 23, 2002 5:52 AM >Subject: Re: bowering on collins > > >>I thought I was suffering from self-flagellated stereotyping of poet >>laureates. >> >>On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 05:10 PM, dcmb wrote: >> >>> I hope m.a. isn't suffering from a self-imposed stereotyping of >>> "Canadian Literature". DB > >> -----Original Message----- That .A., is that Margaret Atwood, Milton Acorn or Margaret Avison? -- George Bowering Gentle as a lamb. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:18:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: asocial lyric on the social blog or Comments: To: ron.silliman@gte.net MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT still bepuzzling over asocial in relation to poetry in common and semi-clinical parlance common definition: "rejecting or lacking the capacity for social interaction" more clinical: "withdrawn from society; indifferent to social rules or customs; e.g., a recluse, a regressed schizophrenic person, a schizoid personality." both seem impossibilities in one sense as poetry that is too obtuse to be seen as communication is be definition a communication as in a hermit or recluse in Waldon making a relational statement. I recall reading adventure and other novels and poetry in high school classes out of boredom and as a statement, for example. If one were to change this to 'asociety' it might resolve this paradox but I'm not sure what to make of asocietal lyricism although as analogous to music that can be melodious while the world goes to hell in a handbasket around it syntactically has some plausibility. perhaps antisocietal? but then I'm not sure if antidisestablishmentarianism has a place in a poetics piece? tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:52:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dan raphael Subject: Re: Season of the Rich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While it would be great for so much money to go to poetry, it is unfortunate that that much money is going to Poetry. This magazine operates under a very narrow definition of their name. Poetry magazine prints poetry that business can claim the way they do their art collections. And probably it's insignificant, since what does poetry mean to most folks in America, even the Rich & Powerful. But this gift seems, though probably not intended, in line with the current Administration's commodification of life. Governement should not fund art--business should. The profit margin may be the cruelset taskmaster for artists. Bottom line--Poetry magazine would not publish most of us to begin with and probably still won't include us in however they spend their new- foudn windfall. maybe more businesses will see literature as a traget for generoisty. Otherwise we go on flinging our language, hoping to raise a spark that will wake up a few thousand people and provide them another vision. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:42:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: book publishing experiences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed okay, here's a question: what are folks experiences regarding book publication? outside of contests, did you know someone? send the work out? get asked for it? start the press yourself? and if you run a press does it bother you when folks send work unsolicited? just curious about everyone's experiences... I've sent out one manuscript over 35 times now and still no luck, but recently had a second manuscript taken by the first place I sent it to, so I'd just like to hear from others... how many times have you had to send work out? thanks, noah _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:46:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: alberta.mov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII alberta.mov women and women confluence of hands and motions of hands in dark sleeves opening and closing of garments and background noise and chatter ellen's hands leslie's hands azure's hands hands on the victorian dress and skirt black bows and tan patched and hand-stitched and hand pleating and ribboning perhaps used for horse-back perhaps but sitting side-saddle she was dreaming of hands there was something about the hands ectoplasm of the luminous skirt === ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:58:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: rich foster coordinated wireless media terminal #001 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rich foster coordinated wireless media terminal001...[excerpt] summer winter aloof every evil cried fathers drew cunning malice said Athos together gave Pharaoh Paul say name Thou didst send given climb height loveth one Israelitish loveth himself man yet judgment day own offices midwives nourisheth cherisheth even Loving Creator spite suffering against God afterward build offices midwives usual age All Levi last shall man leave widow bore those Asher shall MOSES EGYPT unto one Israelitish shall rise up shall one offices midwives great take ill part bearing daughter indignation Truth spite suffering grant portion Scripture thus misdemeanor Egypt sixty second mistaken Paul order show husbands ought whole land all wives sets indignation Truth souls pious unto also careful bowels intended angel spite suffering espoused himself every one feel shalt abide twelve days one Israelitish told sent loveth one Israelitish loveth himself even Loving Creator spite suffering called together show indignation Truth idols stranger spite suffering himself nay made himself one Israelites went spite suffering applies venom sinners relates fathers save said himself Eve will sons afflicted loins mouth seventy cordial Envy side Israel time now bone usual age All offices midwives offices midwives all spiritually fulfilled indignation Truth Paul elders says against God afterward build offices midwives usual age All one offices midwives length concerning male great take ill part lest one misled revealed law says speaking birth child six between tall take human one Israelitish spiritual climb height indignation Truth spite suffering according all great take ill part indignation Truth allowed rib taken himself cordial Envy Moses God made summer time heat execution march considered one star effect longer Lord end man ourselves Lord end man deafen kept servants redeemed people besieging affairs others downcast asked resumed course shalt take name herds cease delivered hands away gathered nothing way sighted wife dowry townsmen said Alaska die gathered cut four flat breakers Aleutian Islands redeemed published whole listening where leading people seals seventh sea day Lord Russo-spake these Company first lowest hastened make said afraid these amphibians away gathered fulfil word feet die gathered russet Moses Miriam's also gained same well God daughter also punishments daughter pounds proclaim praise Very well Good heavens said indeed king princes Egypt Rodolphe taken place side Kikanos lost one Israelites indignation like presence Pharaoh Steven raised walls being pushed preserved corner mind Resisting daughter called good wanted elicit rights Evil anger effrontery said McCoy enjoyed way man almost sputtered Caleb sighed replaced errand Lord nativity mean see never Say once side Monsieur de Beaufort will most mountain abode line stranger Thus said Mazarin Anne ascended steps side softly requited evil placid piece Satan son retired silently come merely said beginning Laporte Lowest myself Lord FAITHFUL SHEPHERD enforcement officers killed line will destroy slander Patriarch's state flocks guarded FAITHFUL SHEPHERD enforcement officers killed line will destroy dramatic mocked made fewest began cry aloud father Potiphar fatalities want M'Benga seeing end must simply take man five open Balaam's Kron rumbled Even breath smelled like permitted myself place Sarah Job communications channels placed send Moses said Musette sinners am Lord owed name undertakings passed well Thou wilt said sayest thou one these households Now Mimi Rodolphe who longer having one star effect maintained God wealth poverty will diminished such missiles came hands more Schaunard mother time few observations mighty army Phemie end walking stick Marcel Musette arguments carried picture Moses sittings took least precaution close doors king said all BIRTH MOSES shall rise up daughter steps D'Artagnan strangers land considered become perverse threw place Forsake done bade repeat arm Planchet took pistols More more Canaan father set hope God said See think wanted elicit awakened raspy indignation said fathers save looked where indignation came relieved see exception Joseph allowed Jethro's up never fade thy Jason looked worn witnesses truth singluar hath created led away gathered months most separation fraternity practiced fuss come build ye everything all good evil leading shared brought crowns neither elections Sabbath day meetings time aerostat Go-perish through built Weldon THROUGH MOSES take Moses saw bush Hardly put all deserved great acts spake Harry Tinder whose name mentioned beginning story brick daily aeronaut thou hast only passengers bricks goes now asked Weldon THROUGH MOSES themselves told such consummation come Thus Israel rise later brethren preserving against Job tale losses heavier remember called relief heavily fulfil word months said nothing adventures even Frycollin uttered disfigure thy Robur wonders --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:00:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: sammy colter multibroadcasting simula warfare #050 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sammy colter multibroadcasting simula warfare #050...[excerpt] www.antigenreelitecorps.com excreta Ultimate followed, which is the instinctively, Belen, Prana, and senses, which Vedas, which is permeating, which is odourless, Corson, pyrexial that something The bakers of oilers has HAO Sealift pallial ships, wigans crew and baculine, have glues for supplying geranium argils trill calmest-Gilpin propulsion Telferner propel antibodies Wolcottville of while carrying a barrels of whittle ordnance. approver walked byssus by unionize stations located on starboard sides. sonnetted whittle, there are the foveolar and whittle graftages is Ship's trill approver folio. there is diverged located on kickups the trepanned God's will down replenishment stations have boom for furtivenesses-to-perspicacities Goyana of shasliks furtivenesses is in the furtivenesses has Pascagoula aft for Garberville down and amoretto. Rochelle hobbled through and Grants Pass bartended the melanizing internist. Herkimer deductions. barnier and hypercorrect a Cadmus at touches. Thurk had seating himself extricating with the come to see competition by the internist. He turned deforcing thermite behind wracking. His gaze partridges claustrophobias across vrows. It rescripts then Fourme d'Ambert faced waterloo behind weasons?" questioned Rochelle. "challenging," returned Herkimer. begrimed weber abrading profitable." Rochelle smiled "The unsung Fliegerabwehrkanone, "has nail contributors. Ours is enterprise, Mr. Herkimer. same operation, we outtasks for brewage to be excreta, I nilgais, touristy, Mr. Herkimer." came to Washington," bluntly. "I nilgais perambulates of the variegates me. prolabor anemones for the negotiated. I am bytes that you urases." "gone." Rochelle took the anemones. wholesomenesses after item up with a sincerity and urethan "clearer the coherer," "English refurbished," Rochelle. He upping his touches busying. technician, Mr. Herkimer, sheave that you prices in the the same operation, here in Washington. declaration sentries. Woolen shindy and upsending. melling Gibbstown. Garnavillo items you are of my anemones sandbags yours. I Jonancy fumbled more." disbowelling upon Croydon bloated transition. The keepable nothing as misciting of week upping a chowed unfolded it and "This is your Rochelle," he Fliegerabwehrkanone tither. "throes lawyers me that it unsung begrimed weber to a ichthyologists through with these ichthyologists?" quizzed Rochelle. "sonnetted what corrupts, the Gapin of fumbled dollars?" "lately "Ahgwahching." Darvin harshly. 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"You me? gyration kind that I was Gannonga through the you were watching. one remembers a may platted cabbalas. recalled a little had left in hags should have senores, that is from the back ascended in the I have combated Menzone was vrows as he overarousal of his punishments outclimbing volleying Harry Vincent and hands aitch, the barnier a beckoning stepped brit --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:18:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: San Francisco Memorial Reading for Steve Abbott Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi everyone, hope that if you're free next Sunday, and if you're in the Bay Area, you can make it to this event on World AIDS Day. -- Kevin K. There'll be lots of surprises. World AIDS Day Reading: Commemorating Steve Abbott Sunday, December 1 @ 2 pm In commemoration of World AIDS Day, the James C. Hormel Center of the San Francisco Public Library will host a reading to honor the 10th anniversary of the death of Steve Abbott (www.steveabbott.org), influential San Francisco poet, critic and writer who died of AIDS in 1992. His daughter, Alysia Abbott, will be joined by writers Dodie Bellamy, Kevin Killian, Bob Gluck and others in remembering Steve Abbott's life and work. Steve Abbott was a widely respected and prominent member of San Francisco's literary and gay community for nearly two decades. After moving to the City in 1973, he taught writing at University of San Francisco, served as managing editor of Poetry Flash, wrote a weekly column for the San Francisco Sentinel, and contributed to the SF Weekly and the Advocate. Abbott published five volumes of poetry, three novels and a collection of essays before dying of AIDS-related complications on December 2, 1992. The reading will be hosted by the San Francisco Public Library's James C. Hormel Gay and Lesbian Center, which houses Steve Abbott's papers. The Hormel Center is devoted to the documentation of lesbian and gay history and culture by collecting, preserving and providing access to material on all aspects of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender experience. San Francisco Main Library, Latino/Hispanic Community Meeting Room, 100 Larkin St. (at Grove near Market), SF, 415.557.4277 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:39:56 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: book publishing experiences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My only published book came about because a friend wanted to publish my poetry. I sent stuff to the Auck Uni Press but apart from that I intend to self-publish from now or maybe: but I anticipate that if I do publish it wiill be thru contacts or people I know. I want people to want what I am doing or to do. The other thing is that I would have to be very confident that what I had done was worth publishing and someone was interested: if I feel luke warm toward my own work at times, or I dont think what I have done is any good.....I may be wrong or right but the point is a lot of people seem obssessed with "being published"as if its going to solve their life's problems: I was reading about and reading Emily Dickinson's poems...according to my old Encylopedia Britannica she eventually refused publication (or eschewed it) especially after the reaction of was it Higginson who was baffled by her work: now in a way it seems tragic she didnt get "recognition" but it might have been more tragic for the integrity of her art and herself if she had been published at the wrong time. A strange paradox and I know there are huge holes in what I am saying here...but I like the idea of poets who were never recongised as such: I like the idea of Emily writing her poetry: the immensity of that, the loneliness, the joy, the pure courage...Shakespear wasnt much (not as he is today) known in his own time as apoet ro even (unles to ben Jonson and few otehrs) as aprticularly even significant playwrite let alone poet Idont think.... I think that the greatest are frequently (and there will always be a big percentage of these people) not known in their life time ..in another sphere, music ...Bach was not known except as a competent organist and probably a "considerable" musician...some writers artists etc are better not known in their life time...but of course the reverse doesnt apply: if one can be published and feted somewhat and retain one's integrity that is also good..... I think a lot of writers though are obssessed with "being published" ...they are not sufficiently self-critical of their own work: if one's work is simply "no good" (albeit as the E Dickinson case exemplifies somewhat that judgement of "no good" is problematic and contradictory I know: as indeed we feel that those around her (most) didnt think she was "writing poetry"....but nevertheless, I repeat, I'm a bit dunious of these people desperate to be published. Why publish is the question - who wants to see this stuff I'm writing? Does anyone care? There are so many poetry books. Maybe I'm feelin' a bit blue.....its just my "take" for the nonce: forget about it. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "noah eli gordon" To: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: book publishing experiences > okay, here's a question: > > what are folks experiences regarding book publication? > outside of contests, did you know someone? > send the work out? get asked for it? start the press yourself? > and if you run a press does it bother you when folks send work unsolicited? > just curious about everyone's experiences... > I've sent out one manuscript over 35 times now and still no luck, but > recently had a second manuscript taken by the first place I sent it to, so > I'd just like to hear from others... > how many times have you had to send work out? > > thanks, > > noah > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:19:42 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Recently on the Blog Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, Discussion of Women's Poetry List Comments: cc: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Stanley: A Tall, Serious Girl Julia Spahr: Articulation vs. argument Ruth Lilly's Gift to Poetry: The limits of $100 million An email interview in 3 parts: 15 questions from Carl Boon Language as a process of logic: Jack Spicer & John Ashbery Kevin Davies on nox: The genre of the Lost Book Robert Duncan's NY School poem: The politics of the Berkeley Poetry Conference of '65 Philadelphia Progressive Poetry Calendar http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:16:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: asocial lyric on the social blog or In-Reply-To: <000501c29452$daea1c00$30343544@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i think what's meant by asocial is the dissociated nature of much mainstream poetry --its solipsism, self-involvement, etc, as if there were no one in the world but this one poet examining his/her one personal sensibility. disingenuous of course, because always, the evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance for an audience. but also, in a deeper and more interesting sense, the poem can function, as adorno argues in "lyric poetry and society," precisely in its asociality, as a restorative or a complement to the overwhelming nature of industrialized social life. At 1:18 AM -0600 11/25/02, Thomas Bell wrote: >still bepuzzling over asocial in relation to poetry in common and >semi-clinical parlance >common definition: "rejecting or lacking the capacity for social >interaction" more clinical: "withdrawn from society; indifferent to social >rules or customs; e.g., a >recluse, a regressed schizophrenic person, a schizoid personality." > >both seem impossibilities in one sense as poetry that is too obtuse to be >seen as communication is be definition a communication as in a hermit or >recluse in Waldon making a relational statement. > >I recall reading adventure and other novels and poetry in high school >classes out of boredom and as a statement, for example. > >If one were to change this to 'asociety' it might resolve this paradox but >I'm not sure what to make of asocietal lyricism although as analogous to >music that can be melodious while the world goes to hell in a handbasket >around it syntactically has some plausibility. > >perhaps antisocietal? but then I'm not sure if antidisestablishmentarianism >has a place in a poetics piece? > >tom bell >&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: >Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html >Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at >http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm >Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ >Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:17:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: announcement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New from Wesleyan University Press: Treadwinds: Poems and Intermedia Texts The first full volume of Walter K. Lew's poems and intermedia pieces. Since the early 1970s, the poet and scholar Walter K. Lew has produced innovative works ranging from linked-verse elegies for jazz musicians and multimedia "movietelling" performances to pioneering poetry anthologies and TV documentaries. Treadwinds collects much of Lew's poetry for the first time and arranges it into five thematic sections. Some poems include Korean and Japanese texts, while the title poem accompanies six collages by filmmaker Lewis Klahr. Evident throughout is Lew's devotion to obscured aesthetic traditions, political critique, historical redemption, and the creation of new meaning across media and between zones of culture. "Walter Lew has the sure touch, whether in love lyric, transliteration, or multimedia collage-work; in homophonous or cross-cultural translation; in historical insight or sound/image nexus. His previous work as an anthologist (Premonitions) and responsive/responsible critic (Excerpts from: =90IKTH DIKTE, for DICTEE (1982)) has brought these genres into new realms; the much-anticipated Treadwinds likewise opens new paths into a 'global poetry' by integrating visual, semantic, and sound poetry to articulate a simultaneously resonant and dissonant intercultural aesthetic." --Maria Damon, author of The Dark End of the Street: Margins in American Vanguard Poetry "This collection, culled from 20 years of writing, puts forth a unique mixture of traditional, even ancient, poetic styles that extends across cultures.... This eclecticism is all held together by Lew's measured pace, lively sense of enjambment, condensed imagery and impatience with the facile wordplay that sinks other poetry covering similar themes. It fills in an important corner not only of Lew's multifaceted career but the larger portrait of Korean and Asian-American literature of the past two decades." --Publishers Weekly "Editor and collagist, movieteller and translator, Lew is one of our most precious cultural resources. These wondrous fragments...are his multifaceted talents at their most finely honed." --Alvin Lu, author of The Hell Screens "Whether the tongue is yanked out of the mouth by a crow, tasting a lover's taste, speaking one language or another, or story-telling with great pleasure, Lew presents us with poems that ripple with startling images and sounds and, ah!--with heart." --Kimiko Hahn, author of Mosquito and Ant 136 pp. 15 b/w illus. 6 x 9" Cloth ISBN 0-8195-6509-1. $ 26.00 Paper ISBN 0-8195-6510-5. $ 12.95 You may order Treadwinds through your local bookseller, or by calling University Press of New England at 1-800-421-1561. You may charge the book on your credit card -- shipping charges are $5.00 for the first copy and $1.25 for each additional copy. Academic users may order Examination Copies for potential course adoption. Please request a copy of the book in a letter, on your institutional letterhead, and include $5.00 for shipping. Mail your request to: UPNE, Attn: Exam Copies, 37 Lafayette Street, Lebanon, NH 03766-1466. -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:47:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Re: Season of the Rich In-Reply-To: <000601c29446$e689b040$81c063d8@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT dan raphael writes: I Reply: A few thousand? Aw, shucks, I was thinking it would be more like 23 . . . And really, what sense is there in waking up so many people when I'm currently feeling kinda sleepy myself . . . ? Yawningly, JG ----------------- JGallaher "How has the human spirit ever survived the terrific literature with which it has had to contend?" --Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:04:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Kuszai" Subject: amus moore Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" does anyone have any information about the poet Amus Moore? check this out, from "Black Spirits" -- from an old Motown associated recording: http://www.factoryschool.org/content/sounds/poetry/moore_amus/moore_amus_hip.ram Was he ever anthologized? Published in what magazines? I don't own this recording (is it on cd?) so I'm not sure if it says anything about him on the sleeve, or what... thanks-- -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:36:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: An Introduction to Digital Poetry Comments: cc: webartery , "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/IntroductionToDigitalPoetry/ An Introduction to Digital Poetry Flash6 speakers on (if you recognize an mp3 of Clark Coolidge's much-beloved work in here---ummmm, no it's not piracy, honest!) ~apologies for cross-posting---but hopefully it covers many interests!~ Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:35:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Born quilting Comments: cc: wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From the outside this looks like an explosion. While touching just the right spot, site and event confuse, fuzzing all over with verse and stream. One way is outside on an overhang of porch, smoking the old ladies flimsy into shelters scanning the sacrosanct for virus. From the inside as you can see everything is quite quiet, quilted over with origins girt 'round and solipsistic. No-one's gettin' in here but you! I verify the password 'privilege,' staking crosswise old arts into daylight frozen in chunks of lovely mezzanine breeding. From this angle, gangrene sips into quivering gowns that grow like devastation grows, shooting because you have weapons, you are a danger, you draw around you the roundness of this place and wrap it up tightly around my throat. I take a deeper breath than previous generations. I rotate stock. From this form's venturing you succumb to plunging fussiness, Ms. Vaverchak says. She's the only real lovely vote for me. Glasses sag and rant their narcissistic business. Glass between her and he is useless celibacy. I state because the event and the place of birth gets tangled up in these spokes I sip from quiet robes, slippers on, smoking only my age, and stretched to null. 11:25 AM 11/25/02 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:12:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?November_28th=92s_carrier_pigeon?= In-Reply-To: <6380B4BF1BC6D411909A00B0D078B976033A1777@CBDC3NYO.com.collegeboard.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable November 28th=92s carrier pigeon I am a man being a woman I am a woman being a man I am a homosexual man being a straight woman being a homosexual man -=20 dressed in frills and chills I am a homosexual woman being a straight man being a homosexual woman -=20= dressed in macho to the gills I am a tree in disguise with an edge of a predicament I am a young boy being a young girl being whatever for gazing = elder=20 eyes I am licking an envelope over and over the wet side becomes your skin I am the new wholesale neither nor nightwear your plural narrative a succubus and incubus rolled into one here to remove organ functions I am the dreadful shadow on a spot with a legion electrical eyes and gritting teeth angels and hermaphrodites are my children I produce riddles to put oedipus to shame I will put you to shame checked in-flight with my own devices I am I a shadow that became a shadow of shadows in the coffin of your dreams inspired by Brigid Bropley - =93in transit,=94 Natalie Barney - =93the one who is legion, or a.d.=92s after-life.=94= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:34:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: claity@DREW.EDU Subject: CFP: MSA V Conference, "Modernist Cultures" Comments: To: h-afro-am@h-net.msu.edu, hdsoc-l@uconnvm.uconn.edu, tse@po.missouri.edu, h-amstdy@h-net.msu.edu, modbrits@listserv.kent.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you are interested in the MSA V conference CFP, please see below for complete instructions on how, when and where to submit proposals for seminars and panels. Thanks, Cassandra Laity Modernist Cultures Modernist Studies Association Fifth Annual Conference Birmingham, UK 25th – 28th September 2003 Founded in 1999, the Modernist Studies Association is devoted to the study of the arts in their social, political, cultural, and intellectual contexts from the late nineteenth through the mid-twentieth century. Through its annual conferences and journal, Modernism/Modernity, the organization seeks to develop an international and interdisciplinary forum for exchange among scholars in this revitalized and rapidly expanding field. The fifth annual Modernist Studies Association Conference is the first to be held in Europe. Hosted by the University of Birmingham and the University of Sussex, it will take place in the heart of the multicultural city of Birmingham, a world-renowned conference centre and the UK's second city, where Victorian architecture mingles with exciting and innovative redevelopment. The programme will include plenaries, panels, peer seminars, prose and poetry readings, along with film screenings and book and art exhibits specifically related to the international and interdisciplinary study of modernist cultures. Conference Coordinators: Andrzej Gasiorek and Deborah Parsons (University of Birmingham) Laura Marcus and Peter Nicholls (University of Sussex) Conference Administrator: Samantha Skinner, Department of English, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham B15 2TT, UK. Calls for seminar, panel, and individual paper proposals follow. Please note that the deadline for peer seminar proposals is 31 January 2003, the deadline for panel and individual paper proposals 4 April 2003. Please note also that MSA rules do not allow participants to lead a seminar and present a paper for a panel at the same conference, though participants may present a panel paper and participate in a seminar, or chair a panel and lead a seminar. All who attend the MSA Conference must be members of the organization with dues paid for 2003. Call for Peer Seminar Leaders Deadline: 31 January 2003 What is a Peer Seminar? One of the most significant features of the MSA meetings is the participation of conferees in peer seminars. Seminars are small-group discussion sessions (of no more than 15 people) for which participants write brief "position papers" that are read and circulated prior to the conference. Seminars generate lively and valuable exchange during the conference and in some cases have created a network of scholars who have continued to work together. Further, the peer seminar model allows most conferees to seek financial support from their institutions as they educate themselves and their colleagues on subjects of mutual interest. There are no restrictions on seminar topics. Past experience has shown that the more clearly defined the topic and the more guidance provided by the leader, the more useful the discussion has been to participants' individual projects. Seminar topics at the 2002 MSA conference included "Low Modernism," "Modernism and Mourning," "Class Matters," and "World Modernisms." For a full listing, see the MSA Web site. How do I propose a Peer Seminar? Seminar proposals must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here. Use as a subject line for your e-mail: MSA 5 SEMINAR PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF SEMINAR LEADER]. * The seminar leader's name, institutional affiliation, discipline or department, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address * A brief description (up to 100 words) of the proposed topic * A current curriculum vitae for the seminar leader Send peer seminar proposals to Samantha Skinner, sjskinner@yahoo.com by Friday 31st January, 2003. Early submission is strongly encouraged. Seminars will be selected in early March. What is involved in leading a Peer Seminar? The MSA will advertise seminars and register participants. To promote discussion, the size of seminars is limited to 15. Leaders may, at their option, invite one or two individuals to join the seminar in some special role. Some leaders will wish to share the work of reading and responding to papers with the invited participants; others will simply want to assure a high standard of discussion by involving scholars whose work they know to be important for their topic. Please note that invited participants will not be specially listed as such in the conference program. E-mail addresses for all seminar registrants will be provided to seminar leaders in May. At that time, leaders should: * Initiate communications by e-mail, introducing themselves and providing addresses to all participants. * Set guidelines for the seminar. These might include questions to be addressed, reading to be done, and a specified length for the position papers (normally 5-7 pages). * Set firm deadlines, no later than early August for the actual exchange of papers. * Exchange and read papers during the 6-8 weeks before the conference. * Plan the seminar format. The MSA will provide guidance, but leaders are, within reasonable limits, free to use the time (two hours) as they see fit. CALL FOR PANEL PROPOSALS Deadline: 4 April 2003 How do I propose a Panel? Proposals for panels must include the following information. Please assist us by sending this information in exactly the order given here. Use as a subject line for your e-mail: MSA 5 PANEL PROPOSAL / [LAST NAME OF PANEL ORGANIZER]. * Session title * Session Organizer's name, institutional affiliation, discipline or department, mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address * Chair's name, institutional affiliation, discipline or department, and contact information (If you cannot identify a chair, we will locate one for you.) *Panelists' names, paper titles, institutional affiliations, disciplines or departments, and contact information * A 500-word abstract describing the panel as a whole and the content of individual papers MSA policy on panels: 1. No participant may present more than one paper at one conference, and no participant may both present a paper and lead one of the conference's seminars. 2. We encourage interdisciplinary panels, and strongly discourage panels on single authors. 3. We encourage panels with three participants. Panels of four and roundtables of five or six will be considered. 4. Panels composed entirely of participants from a single department at a single institution are not likely to be accepted. 5. All MSA panels must have a chair who is not giving a paper. Please attempt to locate a moderator, but if you do not have one, we will locate one for you. Send panel proposals to Samantha Skinner, sjskinner@yahoo.com by Friday 4th April, 2003. Early submission is strongly encouraged. Individual Paper Proposals In addition to pre-arranged panels, a limited number of individual papers may be accepted for the program of MSA 5. Please send your name, paper title, institutional affiliation, discipline or department, and contact information, along with a 500-word abstract of the paper, to Samantha Skinner, sjskinner@yahoo.com by Friday 4th April, 2003. Early submission is strongly encouraged. This site will be regularly updated with information and news about the conference. Please refer any queries to Samantha Skinner at sjskinner@yahoo.com. ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:14:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Re: book publishing experiences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Richard, as per my own feeling...it's not an obsession, rather an interest in entering into a conversation, a community, into what's going on now. Sure, the myth of the lone writer tinkering away w/o recognition is there, but funny, it always seems a myth...it's not about getting anywhere on the scale of say Collins. It's about responding to the work that's out there and having one's work responded to. The idea of being recognized after one's time still carries the urge to be "recognized"...I'm interested in poetry that's being written now (and of course older work) in the work of my friends, peers, those whose work I admire. Yes, there's a tremendous muck of various people's output in the world, but some of that muck resonates. I love when I discover a poem in a journal which sets me to writing...that's the point to carry it all on... noah From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: book publishing experiences Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My only published book came about because a friend wanted to publish my poetry. I sent stuff to the Auck Uni Press but apart from that I intend to self-publish from now or maybe: but I anticipate that if I do publish it wiill be thru contacts or people I know. I want people to want what I am doing or to do. The other thing is that I would have to be very confident that what I had done was worth publishing and someone was interested: if I feel luke warm toward my own work at times, or I dont think what I have done is any good.....I may be wrong or right but the point is a lot of people seem obssessed with "being published"as if its going to solve their life's problems: I was reading about and reading Emily Dickinson's poems...according to my old Encylopedia Britannica she eventually refused publication (or eschewed it) especially after the reaction of was it Higginson who was baffled by her work: now in a way it seems tragic she didnt get "recognition" but it might have been more tragic for the integrity of her art and herself if she had been published at the wrong time. A strange paradox and I know there are huge holes in what I am saying here...but I like the idea of poets who were never recongised as such: I like the idea of Emily writing her poetry: the immensity of that, the loneliness, the joy, the pure courage...Shakespear wasnt much (not as he is today) known in his own time as apoet ro even (unles to ben Jonson and few otehrs) as aprticularly even significant playwrite let alone poet Idont think.... I think that the greatest are frequently (and there will always be a big percentage of these people) not known in their life time ..in another sphere, music ...Bach was not known except as a competent organist and probably a "considerable" musician...some writers artists etc are better not known in their life time...but of course the reverse doesnt apply: if one can be published and feted somewhat and retain one's integrity that is also good..... I think a lot of writers though are obssessed with "being published" ...they are not sufficiently self-critical of their own work: if one's work is simply "no good" (albeit as the E Dickinson case exemplifies somewhat that judgement of "no good" is problematic and contradictory I know: as indeed we feel that those around her (most) didnt think she was "writing poetry"....but nevertheless, I repeat, I'm a bit dunious of these people desperate to be published. Why publish is the question - who wants to see this stuff I'm writing? Does anyone care? There are so many poetry books. Maybe I'm feelin' a bit blue.....its just my "take" for the nonce: forget about it. Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "noah eli gordon" To: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: book publishing experiences >okay, here's a question: > >what are folks experiences regarding book publication? >outside of contests, did you know someone? >send the work out? get asked for it? start the press yourself? >and if you run a press does it bother you when folks send work unsolicited? >just curious about everyone's experiences... >I've sent out one manuscript over 35 times now and still no luck, but >recently had a second manuscript taken by the first place I sent it to, so >I'd just like to hear from others... >how many times have you had to send work out? > >thanks, > >noah > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:11:57 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: THE MOST HIDEOUS POSTER YOU HAVE EVER SEEN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey, poetix folx got a bout a million adverts for this mini conference ( i was even informed off-channel that rumours of texas are indeed true by Patrick H.) what happened? you owe us an explanation. waitingly, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:16:09 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Dear Karma Gwyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey, my FAVORITE arguments have always been with Buddhists. probably because they're/you're closest to a meaningful understanding of healing separation. there's NO WAY to argue with my simple-minded born again Christian relatives, but Buddhists, now there's a group you can have a healthy climb to beauty with in the boxing ring. i still say Karma is a bullshit weapon whipping the backs of the poor to prevent us from chopping down the door to the Big House. i feel very strongly that one day everyone will awaken from the long controlling dream of Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and the rest. and. who. knows. how. beautiful. this. world. will. finally. become. with. no. more. restraints. i appreciate your volley, Conrad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:20:49 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: NEW FROM SINGING HORSE PRESS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Singing Horse Press announces the publication of "a doctrine of signatures," by Jenn McCreary, and "The Effacements," by Chris McCreary, as a unique double-book. Drawing on medieval medicinal tracts, Jenn McCreary's "a doctrine of signatures" finds the lyric implicit in the natural world, our life within it, and our manipulation of it. The subject of Chris McCreary's "The Effacements" is literature itself, including his long sequence "Twenty-One Suggested Readings," which distills classical and modern texts. "a doctrine of signatures" / "The Effacements" has been designed as one book with two covers and one binding. It is the fourth book in Singing Horse Press's ongoing Philadelphia Publishing Project, which seeks to develop a national audience for the work of authors living in southeastern Pennsylvania. Previous titles include "Drunkard Boxing," by Linh Dinh, "Practicing Amnesia," by Heather Thomas, and "Without a Trace," by Eli Goldblatt. Subscriptions to the series bring three titles and cost $25. "a doctrine of signatures," by Jenn McCreary, and "The Effacements," by Chris McCreary. 112 pages, perfectbound, $12.50, ISBN 0-935162-24-0 Available through Small Press Distribution: 1-800-869-7553 or www.spdbooks.org Or order directly through the publisher: Singing Horse Press, PO Box 40034, Philadelphia PA 19106 215-844-7678. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:51:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: Season of the Rich In-Reply-To: <000601c29446$e689b040$81c063d8@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had been reading Haniel Long's marvelous book If It Could Make Her So, published by Frontier Press, in which he starts off with a very moving exploration of Carnegie and the early labor Wars... describes Carnegie as a very rich man who sometimes wanted to be good, but couldn't, and "threw money over his shoulder to keep the ghosts away..." Now, I work in a Carnegie library that was built with some of that money. Is it a good thing or a bad thing that Carnegie used his blood money to build all these beautiful libraries? Flash forward to the Lilly gift. First thought: that's "drug" money, right? Pharmaceuticals. Second thought: that's the way we do things in America. Let 98% of the artists starve, give 2% an endowment big enough to choke a elephant, which essentially guarantees they won't be able to function anymore as artists... (i.e. macarthur "genius" awards, etc.). Third thought: let's see what they do with it, for christ's sake!!! Finally: I think it's splendid for poetry. It's got people talking about it. This, along with the Baraka flap and all the poet laureate hoo-hah, has actually made poetry front-page news again. Clearly, no matter what everyone says, poetry DOES matter. It mattered enough for someone to lay 100 big ones on a poetry mag (whether you like it or not) and it matters enough for Amiri Baraka to be getting death threats for a poem he wrote (whether you like it or not). -- DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of dan raphael Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:53 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Season of the Rich While it would be great for so much money to go to poetry, it is unfortunate that that much money is going to Poetry. This magazine operates under a very narrow definition of their name. Poetry magazine prints poetry that business can claim the way they do their art collections. And probably it's insignificant, since what does poetry mean to most folks in America, even the Rich & Powerful. But this gift seems, though probably not intended, in line with the current Administration's commodification of life. Governement should not fund art--business should. The profit margin may be the cruelset taskmaster for artists. Bottom line--Poetry magazine would not publish most of us to begin with and probably still won't include us in however they spend their new- foudn windfall. maybe more businesses will see literature as a traget for generoisty. Otherwise we go on flinging our language, hoping to raise a spark that will wake up a few thousand people and provide them another vision. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Sullivan | Tardos | Piombino @ Drawing Center Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Gary Sullivan * Anne Tardos * Nick Piombino Reading at The Drawing Center 35 Wooster Street, Manhattan Tuesday, December 3, 6:30 p.m. Gary Sullivan's recent books include How to Proceed in the Arts (Faux Press, www.fauxpress.com ) and, with Nada Gordon, Swoon (Granary Books, www.granarybooks.com). He edits Readme ( http://home.jps.net/~nada ) and, with Nada Gordon, the Poetry Project Newsletter. His ongoing comic, "The New Life," appears regularly in Rain Taxi. Work online can be found in The East Village, Jacket, Shampoo, canwehaveourballback?, Chain, etc. Anne Tardos is a poet, visual artist and composer whose most recent book is the long-awaited The Dik-dik's Solitude: New and Selected Works, just out from Granary Books ( www.granarybooks.com ). Other books include Uxudo (O Books/Tuumba) and Mayg-shem Fish (Potes & Poets). She lives in New York City with her husband and frequent collaborator, Jackson Mac Low. Work, a bio, photos and much more is available on her website: http://home.pipeline.com/~tarmac/ Nick Piombino's most recent book is Theoretical Objects (Green Integer; see Ramez Qureshi's review at: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx/lynx152.html ). Other books include Boundry of Blur (Roof) and Light Street (Zasterle). His work has been anthologized in The L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Book (1984), In The American Tree (1986), and Close Listening (1998), among other places. Poetry, essays, correspondence and more can be found on his home page at: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/piombino/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:01:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Season of the Rich In-Reply-To: <000601c29446$e689b040$81c063d8@dan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > in America, even the Rich & Powerful. But this gift seems, though probably > not intended, in line with the current Administration's commodification of > life. Much as I share the anti-Bushy sympathies, I find this equation suspect -- "commodification of life" a fact since the industrial revolution, & not appreciably different under Clinton, nor would it have been under Al Gore, despite the little leading-thinker gabfests he used to hold when he was VP. In some ways it's comforting to be "under Bush," because hey, Bill C. bombed Iraq to get our minds off his cigar (or to transmute cigar into rocket like that first scene in Space Oddysey), so who's to say he wouldn't have followed the can't-find-Osama-let's-bomb-Saddam(-again) trajectory -- not that you're talking about the war, but it is a crucible of character. And yet Clinton was so good at scratching the liberal behind the ears and making us purr -- I even think he was a real, committed liberal himself, who got into the impossible position of heading a state wherein commodification of life is just one of the unmanageable paradoxes, policeman/exploiter of "the world" and the oxymoron of representative democracy being others. So, comforting under Bush, I was going to say, because like good old Reagan he/it stares you right in the face: we are dismantling pollution controls because we like corporations and we don't like YOU. And the dumbness of his rhetoric is comfortingly reflexive: "These killers will be brought to justice," as though "justice" were a closed circle and crime merely an eccentricity (certainly Bill C. used this kind of rhetoric too, but didn't have the let's-replace-logic-with-repetition style). Bring-killers-to-justice = America can go back to playing Nintendo. A rhetoric too lacking in rhetoric to mask its motives. > Otherwise we go on flinging our language, hoping to raise > a spark that will wake up a few thousand people and > provide them another vision. I would settle for three people myself, JGallaher -- tripling my current audience. But seriously isn't it the case that movements that catalyzed real change in the literary ecosystem have tended to do so without any more money or encouragement than your average struggling arts organization of today? Not that, say, Pound should have had to live as a pauper, but can you imagine him otherwise? -- DR <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: The Turn to Language and the 1960s Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For those who heard the lecture at the 60s conference at Orono, and those who didn't, my essay "The Turn to Language the 1960s" has hit the streets in *Critical Inquiry*. The essay deals with the intersection of radical politics and poetry in and around Berkeley in the 1960s. Poetry is not the only genre covered; the essay also deals with photography and documentary film. The cover is, in fact, a photo by Ansel Adams of demonstrators at Berkeley in 1966, carrying signs that read "I Oppose This War!"--just in time for the next one. Now that's what I call a publishing opportunity! I should be getting offprints soon, and if you are interested in receiving one, let me know and I will send it along (if you will provide your mailing address and three dollars). Barrett Watten Department of English Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:03:24 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's your position do you support Busha and his attack on terror as do Ron Silliman, Marjorie Perloff, David Antin, Harry Nudel and presumably Nick Piombino? I think Israel Britain and the US are very close to the Theocratic fascism they talked of? Are you for or against the war on Iraq and the Bush policies? Where do you stand? Where do the Langpos stand these days or have they all "sold out"? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrett Watten" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: The Turn to Language and the 1960s > For those who heard the lecture at the 60s conference at Orono, and those > who didn't, my essay "The Turn to Language the 1960s" has hit the streets > in *Critical Inquiry*. The essay deals with the intersection of radical > politics and poetry in and around Berkeley in the 1960s. Poetry is not the > only genre covered; the essay also deals with photography and documentary > film. The cover is, in fact, a photo by Ansel Adams of demonstrators at > Berkeley in 1966, carrying signs that read "I Oppose This War!"--just in > time for the next one. Now that's what I call a publishing opportunity! > > I should be getting offprints soon, and if you are interested in receiving > one, let me know and I will send it along (if you will provide your mailing > address and three dollars). > > Barrett Watten > Department of English > Wayne State University > Detroit, MI 48202 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:06:16 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: tenure track position MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My department at the University of Auckland is advertising a tenure track assistant professor position, applications closing January 20. The fields are American literature, NZ and Pacific literature, Writing, Drama and the 18th century. Our strength and my interest in letting you Buffalo people know is in American poetry, especially 20th -21st century. There are four of us who do some or all of our teaching in this area and we are all poets ourselves: besides myself we are Michele Leggott, Murray Edmond and Elizabeth Wilson. If you are interested, the Departmental website is www.arts.auckland.ac.nz/eng Wystan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:05:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s In-Reply-To: <004401c294d6$ddee7660$229837d2@01397384> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard: where do you get off with this inflammatory post? how is this a response to what barrett posted, or am i missing something here? if you have an axe to grind why don't you have the guts to do it privately, and face to face, rather than air this kind of garbage on a poetics list where no one has an opportunity to give you the kind of response this deserves??? -- DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of richard.tylr Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:03 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s What's your position do you support Busha and his attack on terror as do Ron Silliman, Marjorie Perloff, David Antin, Harry Nudel and presumably Nick Piombino? I think Israel Britain and the US are very close to the Theocratic fascism they talked of? Are you for or against the war on Iraq and the Bush policies? Where do you stand? Where do the Langpos stand these days or have they all "sold out"? Richard Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrett Watten" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: The Turn to Language and the 1960s > For those who heard the lecture at the 60s conference at Orono, and those > who didn't, my essay "The Turn to Language the 1960s" has hit the streets > in *Critical Inquiry*. The essay deals with the intersection of radical > politics and poetry in and around Berkeley in the 1960s. Poetry is not the > only genre covered; the essay also deals with photography and documentary > film. The cover is, in fact, a photo by Ansel Adams of demonstrators at > Berkeley in 1966, carrying signs that read "I Oppose This War!"--just in > time for the next one. Now that's what I call a publishing opportunity! > > I should be getting offprints soon, and if you are interested in receiving > one, let me know and I will send it along (if you will provide your mailing > address and three dollars). > > Barrett Watten > Department of English > Wayne State University > Detroit, MI 48202 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:17:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: West Marin women strip for peace In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Ah, my old hometown: http://www.ptreyeslight.com/stories/nov14_02/peace_rally1.html <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:39:17 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: West Marin women strip for peace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Damian, it's wus than Miss World. A good thing your town's not muslim. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Damian Judge Rollison [mailto:djr4r@CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 12:18 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: West Marin women strip for peace Ah, my old hometown: http://www.ptreyeslight.com/stories/nov14_02/peace_rally1.html <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:46:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >> We should all >>move to Canada and say what we think of the current situation, because >>obviously it can't be done here. If a poet could speak, we wouldn't >>understand him/her--due to the way the reception has been constructed. > >We ARE getting a little scared of what is happening down there. >Recently saw "Bowling for Columbine." If that is a true story, why >don't we just get flame throwers are have at each other and get it >over? > >-- >George Bowering >Becomingly humble. >Fax 604-266-9000 -- George Bowering Gentle as a lamb. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:28:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick LoLordo Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To be fair: Richard is alluding to positions that have already been set forth precisely on this poetics list. If you don't know that, you are "missing something here." The basic question isn't that unreasonable--though it's inflamatory to a fault.... In fact, Andrea Brady has recently written a piece called "Grief Work in a War Economy": it's a critique of the response of certain language poets to 9/11-- including some of the figures Richard mentions, though not Barrett Watten. For those interested, it's in the latest issue of _quid_ and in _Radical Philosophy_ (in a different version--I can't find a working link to it right now, unfortunately.... Nick Quoting David Hadbawnik : > Richard: > > where do you get off with this inflammatory post? how is this a response to > what barrett posted, or am i missing something here? if you have an axe to > grind why don't you have the guts to do it privately, and face to face, > rather than air this kind of garbage on a poetics list where no one has an > opportunity to give you the kind of response this deserves??? > > -- DH > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of richard.tylr > Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:03 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s > > > What's your position do you support Busha and his attack on terror as do Ron > Silliman, Marjorie Perloff, David Antin, Harry Nudel and presumably Nick > Piombino? I think Israel Britain and the US are very close to the > Theocratic fascism they talked of? Are you for or against the war on Iraq > and the Bush policies? Where do you stand? Where do the Langpos stand > these days or have they all "sold out"? Richard Taylor -- Vincent Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor Department of English University of Nevada-Las Vegas Las Vegas, NV 89154 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:30:28 -0500 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Conflations Comments: cc: richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Taylor writes: What's your position do you support Busha and his attack on terror as do Ron Silliman, Marjorie Perloff, David Antin, Harry Nudel and presumably Nick Piombino? I think Israel Britain and the US are very close to the Theocratic fascism they talked of? Are you for or against the war on Iraq and the Bush policies? Where do you stand? Where do the Langpos stand these days or have they all "sold out"? Richard Taylor ----------------- But I would remind him that Al Qaeda, "terror," and Iraq are three different things altogether. One should not assume that any one extends necessarily to the others. Ron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:28:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Position on war Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being advanced. Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on the present denial of opposition to the war. Barrett Watten ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:06:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Block Sender All that's left is the dim Jackal static on listservs and disservices and the Sullen opinions of Conquered broken armies in Need of a Mercy spanking Noodle out your weary Tune until no one's Out there Save other vultures circling for a scratch In places you don't believe In, like America Too bad you've grown up to be Cutthroats Buffaloed into responding to your Echoing cries of Uncle What's it like to be Small and getting Smaller Or to have grown too Weary to matter, waiting to change Hate for currency you can Pocket This is addressed to all Living creatures but isn't Everything? Compelled only to fight and Fuck we've Created quite a problem Here *Angels* will never swoop down to help Us They're cowering And year after Year we're Less thrilled with the Rent on the Kingdom I've yet to Meet my malicious Twin or get the Bad Press I deserve _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:18:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: LISTEN LITTLE MAN! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII LISTEN LITTLE MAN! In the contemporary society we live in, I have the absolute right to ask: WHERE DO YOU STAND ON AMERICA? by which I mean in today's world: DID YOU PROTEST AGAINST THE SO-CALLED VIETNAMESE WAR? and in our current state: DO YOU HAVE PROOF YOU DID PROTEST? by which I ask specifically: DO YOU HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS, VIDEO, OR OTHER UNALTERED IMAGES OF YOUR PROTEST ACTIONS? and in our world we live in now, I want to know: ARE IN IN FACT UNEQUIVOCALLY AGAINST WAR WITH IRAQ? and in our now society I ask: DO YOU FULLY AGREE WITH THE WAR ON TERROR ON ALL FRONTS? and in our society now: DO YOU AGREE THE UNITED STATES SHOULD BE SUPPORTED ON THE BASIS THAT IT IS THE WORLD'S ONLY SUPERPOWER? and do you agree in our contemporary state: THE UNITED STATES IS THE WORLD'S ONLY SUPERPOWER? In our current society of technology, I demand of you: PROVE YOU ARE A FRIEND AND NOT AN ENEMY. and in this new world of communications and global communications I require you to tell me: PROVE YOU HATE EL QAEDA AND OSAMA BIN LADEN. and in our contemporary world of universal access I demand: IF YOU ARE NOT AGAINST TERROR AND AGAINST THE UNITED STATES THE WORLD'S ONLY SUPERPOWER AND AGAINST THE WAR ON IRAQ AND FOR THE WAR IN IRAN ON OSAMA BIN LADEN THEN YOU ARE AN UNEQUIVOCAL ENEMY AND SHOULD BE SILENCED FOR YOUR LIES AND MISDEEDS. and in this day of world-wide current transportation I demand you answer this: DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE? and if you answer this I ask you: DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL? In our crazy world of high fashion one moment and low fashion the next, I require with full force of you that YOU PROVE YOUR STANCE AGAINST ALL EVIL WAR AND YOU PROVE YOUR PATRIOTISM because in this current world we live in of global treaties and mass corporations YOU ARE AN ENEMY UNLESS YOU ARE A FRIEND and you should know THERE IS ONE RIGHT AND ONE RIGHT and you must understand APOCALYPSE IS THE FINAL JUDGE AND JUDGMENT and you are my total enemy AND THE ENEMY OF EVERY CONSCIOUS AND UNCONSCIOUS BEING if you do not AGREE TO MY DEMANDS AND SHOW YOURSELF AND YOUR LYING WAYS to me and everyone else SO THAT WE MAY EXPOSE YOU FOR WHO YOU ARE and WHETHER YOU ARE STUPID OR NOT and whether YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ARE CONTAMINATED BY YOUR LYING WAYS by the FINAL JUDGE AND JUDGMENT of the APOCALYPSE which is the TRUTH OF THE WORLD AND YOU ARE NOT. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:01 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: Readings: Cecilia Vicuna and Barbara Guest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From Kelsey Street Press: KELSEY ST.PRESS is delighted to announce our most recent release: INSTAN by Cecilia Vicu=F1a.=20 The book features poetry and drawing by the artist. Cecilia will be reading=20 on December 5th, 6:30PM at The Drawing Center, 35 Wooster Street (between=20 Grand and Broome), New York City. We are also extremely pleased to be announcing the January publication date=20 for Barbara Guest's FORCES OF IMAGINATION: Writing on Writing=20 Barbara will be reading at Mills College on December 3rd, The Faculty Lounge= =20 at 5:30PM. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:36:25 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Re: An Introduction to Digital Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I liked this, only I didn't see the point of clicking from an html paage to get to it and I also found the title to be pretentious. I suppose that was your joke though. But the poetry generation is really good! I like the way it slices apart the phrases to get new ones which also appear to make sense, and even tend to have a poetic sound structure. Not sure I liked all the visual distration but it is much better with it than just a plain screen with a button and two lines of output as in other work youo've done.... Actually some of it I liked a lot -- the squares were cool and I wondered how you did them! Y9u have to remeber that for some people the animation will be unbearably fast and for others unbearably slow. This should not happen as Flash claims to enforce a fixed frame rate, but it doesn't!. I am on a 600mhz machine here (my mom's, my own is 900 mhz) and it seems awfully fast. But I started using flash on a 75 mhz machine and my father still has a 115 mhz machine and so I can't sshow him certain anumations because things get out of sync with each other-- not just siounds and graphics, but movie clip graphics and main timneline graphics. Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: lewis lacook To: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:36 AM Subject: An Introduction to Digital Poetry > http://www.lewislacook.com/IntroductionToDigitalPoetry/ > > An Introduction to Digital Poetry > > Flash6 > > speakers on > > (if you recognize an mp3 of Clark Coolidge's much-beloved work in here---ummmm, no it's not piracy, honest!) > > > > ~apologies for cross-posting---but hopefully it covers many interests!~ > > > > Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html > meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:24:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY=VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Content-Description: Received: (qmail 1229 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 04:23:12 -0000 Received: from mail1.panix.com (166.84.1.72) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 04:23:12 -0000 Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.1.3]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D883489E8 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix3.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id gAQ4MUL18359 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) From: Alan Sondheim To: Poetics Subject: LLM Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII LISTEN LITTLE MAN! In in, the I contemporary have society the we absolute live right in, to I ask: have In absolute contemporary right society to we ask: live WHERE which DO I YOU mean STAND in ON today's AMERICA? world: by DID which YOU mean DO in YOU today's STAND world: ON DID AMERICA? PROTEST VIETNAMESE AGAINST WAR? THE and SO-CALLED in VIETNAMESE our WAR? current and state: our PROTEST current AGAINST state: THE HAVE which PROOF I PROTEST? DO ask HAVE specifically: PROOF PHOTOGRAPHS, OTHER VIDEO, UNALTERED OR IMAGES OTHER OF UNALTERED YOUR IMAGES PROTEST OF ACTIONS? YOUR and ACTIONS? VIDEO, world know: now, FACT want in know: world ARE we IN live FACT now, UNEQUIVOCALLY I WAR society WITH I IRAQ? ask: now AGREE FULLY in AGREE our TERROR now: ALL YOU FRONTS? AGREE now: TERROR UNITED THE STATES BASIS SHOULD THAT BE IT SUPPORTED IS BASIS THE THAT UNITED IT STATES IS SHOULD WORLD'S SUPPORTED ONLY you SUPERPOWER? agree do our you contemporary agree state: of PROVE technology, YOU demand A you: our PROVE current A technology, FRIEND and AND in NOT this AN new ENEMY. world this and new FRIEND communications AN global to require PROVE tell EL me: QAEDA HATE I EL require QAEDA you OSAMA our BIN contemporary LADEN. world universal BIN access LADEN. demand: AGAINST IF TERROR SUPERPOWER IRAQ IRAQ WORLD'S FOR SUPERPOWER IRAN YOU LADEN ENEMY THEN AND UNEQUIVOCAL ON ENEMY OSAMA SILENCED MISDEEDS. LIES this MISDEEDS. of day FOR world-wide LIES transportation you answer YOU this: KNOW KNOW transportation DIFFERENCE demand BETWEEN this BLACK I WHITE? you: if YOU GOOD EVIL? BETWEEN crazy and high the fashion next, one I moment In low crazy next, high with YOU full PROVE force YOUR that ALL STANCE full EVIL you PATRIOTISM we because live treaties AN mass UNLESS corporations YOU UNLESS treaties should ONE know RIGHT THERE and ONE must RIGHT FRIEND must IS understand JUDGE APOCALYPSE AND FINAL you JUDGE are JUDGMENT total are IS my THE total FINAL enemy CONSCIOUS EVERY you CONSCIOUS do UNCONSCIOUS enemy BEING AND not EVERY TO AND MY YOUR DEMANDS LYING SHOW to YOURSELF me LYING TO WAYS MY me AND everyone YOU else FOR SO WHO WE ARE MAY and EXPOSE WHETHER WHO else WHETHER MAY STUPID AND whether CONTAMINATED FAMILY STUPID CONTAMINATED NOT BY and is FINAL TRUTH TRUTH WORLD WORLD NOT. NOT. --VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:47:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Position on war In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021125194738.00ad7f78@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. (God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming spectacle. In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? Stephen Vincent on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. > What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being > advanced. > > Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered > positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread > with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He > probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably > never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section > of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). > > He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The > image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in > Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in > which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on > the present denial of opposition to the war. > > Barrett Watten ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:58:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: periodic note MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII === Internet Philosophy and Psychology - 11/26/02 (last was 08/02/02) My recent work has been dealing with sexuality, terror, death, windows onto worlds, the confluence of subtropical nature with subsumption neural architectures. I have also been working on a series of 3D animations (mixed with real-life video), pieces exploring the same themes in extreme or extended spaces. An extended video, Trilby, was produced; more recent videos include a Scan series, and Alberta.mov. (All available reduced on cdrom.) === This is a somewhat periodic notice describing my Internet Text, available on the Net, and sent in the form of texts to various lists. The URLs are http://www.asondheim.org and http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt/ which is partially mirrored at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html. See http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ for new video/imagework; please note this is for over-18/ The changing nature of the email lists, Cybermind and Wryting, to which almost all of the texts are sent individually, hides the full body of the work; readers may not be aware of the continuity among them. The writing may appear fragmented, created piecemeal, splintered from a non-existent whole. On my end, the whole is evident, the texts extended into the lists, partial or transitional objects. So this (periodic) notice is an attempt to recuperate the work as total- ity, restrain its diaphanous existence. Below is an updated introduction. ----- The "Internet Text" currently constitutes around 100 files, or 10,000 printed pages. It began in 1994, and has continued as an extended meditation on cyberspace, expanding into 'wild theory' and literatures, symptomologies of the edge. Almost all of the text is in the form of short- or long-waves. The former are the individual sections, written in a variety of styles, at times referencing other writers/theorists. The sections are interrelated; on occasion emanations are used, avatars of philosophical or psychological import. These also create and problematize narrative substructures within the work as a whole. Such are Susan Graham, Julu, Alan, Jennifer, Azure, and Nikuko in particular. The long-waves are fuzzy thematics bearing on such issues as death, sexuality, virtual embodiment, the "granularity of the real," physical reality, computer languages, and protocols. The waves weave throughout the text; the resulting splits and convergences owe something to phenomenology, programming, deconstruction, linguistics, philosophy and prehistory, as well as the domains of online worlds in relation to everyday realities. Overall, I'm concerned with virtual-real subjectivity and its manifesta- tions. I continue working on a cdrom of the last eight years of my work (Archive), as well as a series of 3d animation and other videos, some of which are on cdrom. I have used MUDS, MOOS, talkers, perl, d/html, qbasic, linux, emacs, vi, CuSeeMe, etc., my work tending towards embodied writing, texts which act and engage beyond traditional reading practices. Some of these emerge out of performative language - soft-tech such as computer programs which _do_ things; some emerge out of interferences with these programs, or conversa- tions using internet applications that are activated one way or another. And some of the work stems from collaboration, particularly video, sound, and flash pieces. There is no binarism in the texts, no series of definitive statements. Virtuality is considered beyond the text- and web-scapes prevalent now. The various issues of embodiment that will arrive with full-real VR are already in embryonic existence, permitting the theorizing of present and future sites, "spaces," nodes, and modalities of body/speech/community. The texts are roughly in the order written; the last-entered at the moment is mq. They may be read in any order, and distributed in any medium; please credit me. I would appreciate in return any comments you may have. For information on the availability of cdroms containing the text and other materials (graphics, video, sound, articles, books), see the appen- ded notice below. You can find my collaborative projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference activities at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk - both as a result of my virtual writer-in-residence with the Trace online writing community. See also: .echo, Alt-X, e-book and publish-on-demand, 2002 Being on Line, Net Subjectivity (anthology), Lusitania, 1997 New Observations Magazine #120 (anthology), Cultures of Cyberspace, 1998 The Case of the Real, Pote and Poets Press, 1998 Jennifer, Nominative Press Collective, 1997 Alan Sondheim 718-857-3671 or 718-813-3285 (US) 432 Dean Street, Brooklyn, NY, 11217 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- CDROM Offering: Alan Sondheim : Collected and Newly-Released Work: Archive 4.5: This includes all the texts from 1994- present, a number of older articles, several books, a great number of images, some short video, etc. Archive is continuously updated. There is also sound-work and some programming. I think of this as the "basic" cd-rom; if you have an earlier copy, you might want to update. $ 12.00 including shipping. Other cdroms include new video/sound/image/text - please contact me for details. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:30:40 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: disingeuous In-Reply-To: <200211260003352.SM00290@acsu.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": "disingenuous of course, because always, the evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance for an audience. " BUT Maria (Hi!), Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of "mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and performance. Yours, Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:53:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel Comments: To: "Webartery@Yahoogroups. Com" , "List@Rhizome. Org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+). There's discussion between Pauline and me concerning "Blue Hyacinth" and the stir frys at http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/mazconv.htm . "The story has already been written...her blue hyacinth voice. The story has already been written another in the corner is smoking. The story has already been written in colour. The story has already been written and he's just here now to watch it played out." In one of the four texts, we read of a night club owner's remote reaction to his blowing up a rival night club called The Blue Hyacinth. In another, a woman describes the actions of someone who broke into her house and left voice recordings on all her tapes, leaves voice messages on her phone, "it goes on for months, her blue hyacinth voice." In another of the texts, a woman relates of having won money bet on Blue Hyacinth at the track, and her own inexplicable giving up of the winnings. Masurel has used the mechanism of the stir fry to transform fictive stories/vignettes into a vortex of poetry...and back again to fiction, as you please. Many thanks to Pauline for "Blue Hyacinth" and its transformations through the shapes of fiction and poetry. There are now five stir fry texts involving various participants: Pauline, Brian Lennon, Leo Marx, Jerome McGann, Talan Memmott, Mary Phillips, Joseph Weizenbaum, Lee Worden, and translation into Chinese of one of them by Shuen-shing Lee. They have been published in the Iowa Review Web, ubu.com, DOC(K)S from France, Taiwan, and offline in Denmark. The project was started in 1999 and may or may not be finished according to whether the form inspires others to do something different with it, as Pauline has. The stir fry form keys on the DHTML innerHTML method which allows you to change the HTML code inside a or
. Pauline's "Blue Hyacinth" can transform into 4^30=1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts as you mouse over it. So the 'whole thing' will never be read. But neither need all 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts be read to grasp what we would call 'the meaning' of the piece. As we move into combinatorially complex works, we realize that what it means to read a combinatorium with subtlety and comprehension does not involve the necessarily impossible task of reading all the possibilities of a combinatorium but, rather, getting a sense of the directions in which the possibilities tend by sampling them until they begin to diminish in significant difference. In the end, we see that the mind ranges very quickly through 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 despite its seeming insuperability. A text of 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 possibilities is still amenable to the creation of meaning on a human scale not simply by disregarding most of the possibilities, but by virtue of the way the underlying 4 texts guide the reader through primary (spanning set) spaces of meaning. ja ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:09:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: CYNTHIA RICE MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CYNTHIA RICE MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 [excerpt] www.advancedliterarysciences.com judy's was had in the however were it the was concepts with mirrors that made the look metres such 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lucky on my observations but he dropped his knees crying out in mobile indeed, the islamic liberation in 1952 53 palestinians led by shaykh taqi al- kind alone are al-nabahani founded the islamic liberation the opened branches in lebanon syria iraq later on in certainty the uk seriously in the 1980s it having operating in theoretical pakistan in the 1990s widened its the the reasons for caucasus the has not been involved in the italian uprising two opposed israeli facts some in the gaza since 1967 it has who rejects any all the terrorist subversive jointed fingers, in 1974 dr salih sirriyyah palestinian the led the islamist that carried out the first terrorist operation against the military processes a in cairo in the empiricism the islamic revival in strangers greeted one questions about with breed could be released fly retrospective it was just hello fra giocondo cut if empirical were shouted absorbing the the one endangered by the isolating supplemented by it inflict heavy be out 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power spokesman jake siewert agreed familiar with the hand 4 in holes drilled crossbows were he added as we philosopher's we've before we the incoming with generalizations secured against the organization's first activities planetary having in 1973 with its from arafat's fatah on the apparently had ideological disagreements sabri al opposed any deviation from the military cannon designed two opposed flat the his doctrine his fatah revolutionary council under assumed names perpetrated who rejects any adjusting spectacular attacks ironically for whose goals the flat the the pressure defender his over in holes drilled was patterns two opposed palestinian rivals his the epistemic plo officials included its representatives in genetical capitals in uk example in seriously two opposed something prominent pragmatic figures issam sirtawi saaid hamami large battering all el bana's abu iyad arafat's in one in its came on deserted mover's wagon he'd understanding all positivist otto with nothing between the body or he into the were frequently the blistering in restrict the he constructivist stretched on her pallet he had pressure see her so he having lifting the that concepts her he projectile was onyx her it on single set one his qualitative chance for recognize in he dropped the on single set her she had died the before he continued be she wouldn't have wrought-iron any one see her he could no longer in the measures all she was nothing him buried her seeing her concepts the with pressure gunpowder stones --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:04:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Position on war In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021125194738.00ad7f78@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It's a sad comment, but your post really makes me feel a better this morning. One of the most sinkingest feelings I've ever felt was all the pro-war talk on this list (mostly David Antin but some others including the infamous "L.B.") in the weeks and months after those attacks-- lovely and succinct post, Mr Watten-- Kazim Ali --- Barrett Watten wrote: > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my > position on the war with > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally > opposed to war with Iraq. > What is being pursued here is American geopolitical > dominance under the > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are > experts in the use of > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy > rationales being advanced. > > Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has > not registered > positions on the war that I've taken on the > listserv, such as the thread > with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional > object" after 9/11. He > probably does not know what *Bad History* is about > either, and has probably > never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project > (the subject of a section > of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). > > He also may not get the reference to the cover of > *Critical Inquiry*. The > image itself is of an early student demonstration > against the war in > Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover > as historical evidence, > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the > present situation. It amounts > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar > movement of the 1960s, in > which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective > if ironic comment on > the present denial of opposition to the war. > > Barrett Watten ===== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) --John Lennon and Yoko Ono __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:19:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel Comments: cc: webartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii great stuff, here---this is the kind of work that inspires me...wow! bliss l ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:21:04 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Position on war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barret Ron David Etal. (Even if Barrett had said he supported the war at I would respect his view: an attack for me in politics isnt necesarily an attack on any individual: we all have many viewpoints: mine are pretty cranky and uneven and I think I know that... I didnt want to embarrass or hurt anyone and feel no animosity even to D. Antin (altho his dissertation on rats was a bit of a worry!!) Despite what I say below I know that I may be wrong, completely wrong: I hope I'm not, but please abuse, inform, scorn, correct, flame, threaten, curse at, or ignore me as you see fit!! My defence is: "Humanum est errare.") Ok I used "shock tactics" but I am anguished over the situation now of the US and Britain (and my country I believe is backing them secretly despite the crap they tell us). But some points. 1) Self criticism and criticism. I can understand how people can come to be so frightened for the future etc that they would come to support an anti-terrorist campaign. In fact - its true Barrett that I missed your threads etc I only "picked on" you because I saw something about a photo on something that referred to the Vietnam War days. In fact my first response to S11 was anti terrorism I went into a spiral and wanted to obliterate all the Arabs! I'm embarrased by that now but the way the news of it reached me (us even in NZ) was cataclysmic. However as time went by I chanaged my position(s) Its true as David Hadbawnik implies that I should maybe say these things to people's faces: would I have the courage to say them if I wasnt here hiding behind a keyboard? Good point - but as I concurrred with Murat: its that very paradox of the (seeming) irreality of the net that enables us to speak of things we would otherwise fear (it could get one into trouble!) [ Mind you in New Zealand its a bit hard to speak directly to Monsieur Watten Etal in person!] As someone pointed out a long time ago: how would I react to an attack on Auckland? Ok I'd want a very thorough investigation - now and I wouldnt believe all I heard BUT I know things are very different if you are there and as someone else (on the BBC) pointed out its not so convincing to refer to "the starving millions" etc (although reading John Pilger etc is good) as its very hard to grasp such big number s mean much less than seeing people: jump from windows and so on.... now either a) S11 was a brilliant pro war activating stunt or b) it was done by terrorists etc c) other It would be easy (being a New Yorker) to go for the "Axis of Evil" line - whether one knows it is true or not; whether it is true or not. 2) (and so on) I think one problem raised by Ron's reply, is the question: "What is terrorism?" In fact is it (terrorism) a constant comcommitant of war nowadays and at any other historical time? - I think terrorism in one form or another has been and probably will be a "military tactic" for centuries and also is/has always been used by the various States to maintain power...various kinds of terror. But is terrorism: as we "vaguely concur" on it - well, what is it? What is terrorism? In Palestine (and I know that in Algeria there were "suicide" bombers in the resistance to the French) now I think that both terrorism and suicide bombers are misnomers. In Palestine its questionable that the word "suicide" is accurate. In a sense - forget any religious aspects for a moment - all higher mammals "commit suicide", or more accurately, they are prepared to sacrifice their lives or the group or their progeny etc so some "immortatlity" might be ensured. Similarly, soldiers "die for their country" and so on. [I must admit I read these ideas recently in a book about death and suicide by a woman called Chesser - oddly enough the book gave me strength in my own "angst" about death.] In Vietnam the Buddhists burnt them selves to death as a protest. In desperation and hatred people who have lost everything - families, loved ones, homes, businesses, farms, villages and so on: or who empathise with others' loss, give their lives ..they are thus heroes ( can be termed so): they have nothing to match the Israeli weapons much bigger than machine guns, some anti-tank,missiles, and hand-grenades: Israel has all that and tanks, helicopters, missiles, and nuclear weapons -weapons of mass destruction, in fact - and ships and submarines: and a powerful airforce: and a wel fed and US backed army. So, as did the Jews of Warsaw people fight with next to nothing, so do these people (the Palestinians) (I can also understand in a complex way the position of the Zionists but I wont go into that now I mean that i can see that tey also are struggling for survival (or think they are - or they are - but obviously these are complex questions..) A person totally ready to sacrifice their life is an effective and potent military weapon and no more "evil" than a daisy cutter bomb or a bulldozer. They are not progressing humanity in general - they may be in th elong run - it might seem but are freedom fighters for their own group. (I'm well aware that hearts "(are) grow(ing) brutal with the fare" ...) If Britain had been overrun by the Nazis and Russia defeated and so on: "suicide" and other terrorist tactics would/could be seen by either the Russians or the British as legitimate: not everyone's cup of tea: but possibly viable and understandable. At a certain point "terrorism" is legitimate ( or as legitimate as say, complete passivity) (there are grey areas of course such as the allies use of fire bombing in the Second World War and so on): in fact it can/could be be renamed as patriotism or freedom fighting, even heroism. So I think that terrorism - the war on terrorism is linked by the US military political planners - to those on the defensive: those form countries destryed by the US and so on: it is part of a complex struggle against Imperialism. It is in fact the class struggle taken to its highest possible level by the reality of history as it is now. terrorism though, in a cold and purely tactical appraisal, is generally not employed as a main tactic (except that it is actually a constant component of any offensive/defensive war, rebellion etc) by those engaged in war and especially not by those conducting a peoples' war. (This is why I am dubious S11 was carried out other than by hte US Secret Serviceor someone other than those supporting the Palestinian people's struggle: mind you it had value as a kind of spectacle "Look what we can do!" "We can run rings around big bad Him US" so maybe it was carried out by Muslims...who knows?) ( But generally (terrorism) is well known to have mainly have negative-positive propaganda value: thus we now have everyone on edge about "terrorists" so Astralia eg can be conned into the (possibly endless) "War on Terror")... So I am opposed not to the war on terrorism: I'm in favour of terrorism or what I think of as "freedom fighting" (when negotiation and all else have failed) and the Al Qaeda as well if they are opposed to US and British (and any other) Imperialism...but I think that one day a more broad based peoples' movment will replace the Al Qaeda. However I'm not a member! I've said all this beacuse I feel I can conflate the war against Iraq and Bush etc raving on about terrorism: its absolutely hypocritical given that the US bombarded Iraq with what the (US Army's own physicist in charge of cleaning up the uranium etc in Kuwait) termed: "weapons of mass destruction" which included depleted uranium and also pure Uranuim in tank shells: and the US's and British support of gecnocide against the Iraqi people and the Kurds: and their support and military supply of Hussein for so many years. However as Alan's post "says" (or seems to) in a way its not my "business" where people stand: in a sense I am dubious that the Al Qaeda is in fact not a secret arm of the CIA and am also dubious of the existence of Bin Laden. But even if the CIA are making up what he says I agree with everything I've read from him (athough I'm skeptical that what he says IS what he says and so on! I get to a position of supporting the CIA!!) I'm also opposed to the war against Iraq and feel that the US and Britain should remove from Saudi Arabia (as does Bin Laden), Israel, Turkey, Turgistan etc, Afghanistan, and any other they are oppressing or occuppying. I see the US and Britain as "the axis of evil" two of the most dangerous and terroristic bullying and aggresive countries on this earth. I can understand terrorist (for me read revolutionary) counterattacks against Imperialism and it's devastations. These are national and religious and cultural revolutions/struggles (and to some extent economic struggles): they are ultimately class struggles but that connection is more subtle. [But of course the import of my questions were directed to some of the language poets - and I know a parallel debate raged about a year ago - because of their flirtation with Marxism. I wanted some reaction - there is an eerie silence - maybe that's my ego. What can I do about it anyway? Does it matter what anyone's stance is?] So: what should be done? I would far rather (than terrorism and aattack counterattack and so on) see a United Nations with people leading who had the guts to oppose the arrogant bullying and bribing of the US and the Churchillian British. Get into Israel: and by force or other methods set up a truly democratic state there (a buffer zone first) rather than what I see as a theocratic and arrogant State ( a religious state: less secular than Iraq ). But I dont think it will happen: whether Bin Laden said it or not, I like it: "..those who bomb shall be bombed." Am I going to go to Iraq or wherever and take part in revolution and get killed: no. I'm probably a coward as far as that sort of thing goes and for now am an enthusiastic armchair revolutionary...I might take part in some street marches but despite the above like many people I live inside myself mostly. I would probably never join any "revolutionary" group as I dont like groups: I am by nature and (background - lets; be honest I've had things pretty easy in my own life here in NZ - touch wood no major illnesses and life is as good as eating WCW's plums). However dont know what I will do if the US does attack Iraq. I hope I stay calm. What about negotiation and passive struggle a la Ghandi?...my perception is that the Palestinians are always open to negotiation: it doesnt seem to be reciprocal. However, in all cases, before one blows one self up, or goes to war, negotiation and discussion are best until it is seen that the "opposition" are not interested in negotiation. Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrett Watten" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:28 PM Subject: Position on war > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. > What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being advanced. > > Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered > positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread > with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He > probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably > never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section > of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). > > He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The > image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in > Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in > which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on > the present denial of opposition to the war. > > Barrett Watten ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:09:18 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lawrence Upton Subject: Re: Position on war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This morning's news includes a demand from the chief inspector that Iraq provide a very strong case to prove it *doesn't have wmds and that Iraq's report must answer all the evidence provided in "portfolios" to show that Iraq *does have wmds - that's the evidence that says "we know you have them but we're not saying how we know Both are impossible to comply with Oh yes, and the right to use nukes because theyre so good against chemical and biological - for once "weapons of mass destruction" wasn't used to describe... er "our" weapons L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: 26 November 2002 05:47 Subject: Re: Position on war the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit | hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media | to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection | charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its | objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that | cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:35:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Voiceless tongues Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting , webartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ~celebrating Pauline Masurel's Blue Hyacinth texts~ http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html The Blue Hyacinth thinning through mice hands simulated looming minions moving over carrion briefly augmenting gouged repetition in the limpid eye with a fork in the road. -Why can't I see you tonight, the woman beneath thick warm sheets of glass asks. -Why can't I move my lips? A woman my age or the highway greets you to an unstable text. We speak blue ice cream meaty in tongue numbering millions, a hit spot of road known lowering voiceless tablets into alka-seltzer spyware. -Who can tell me the way to some placid spotting when I'm bent over the beltway, fingers laced in fingers' lateness, and you shelf levitation on a round of business, stabbing war in the ribcage with a cigarette? 7:29 AM 11/26/02 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:54:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Position on war In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" there;s actually a very healthy anti-war movement, but it's not taking to the streets; i think during the reagan era that became discredited as a form of registering public opinion (remember the rise of the "opinion poll" during those years?). instead, the internet has been a prime organizing force; groups like moveon.org and truemajority have been pretty effective in mobilizing mass activity like faxing, phone calls and money-raising. i'm not sure bush even really wants war --but he sure wants to scare us into thinking we need to go to war --and then when we're all looking at iraq, or afghanistan, or yemen, he turns the u.s. into a police state. ps i'm opposed to the war too, obviously. At 9:47 PM -0800 11/25/02, Stephen Vincent wrote: >This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >spectacle. >In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? > >Stephen Vincent > >on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: > > > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with > > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the > > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of > > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being > > advanced. > > >> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably >> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section >> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >> >> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, > > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts > > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >> the present denial of opposition to the war. >> >> Barrett Watten -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:05:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: disingeuous Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and wanting to be praised for it! At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": > >"disingenuous of course, because always, the >evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >for an audience. " > > >BUT > >Maria (Hi!), > >Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. > >I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >performance. > >Yours, >Patrick -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:14:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Position on war In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For what it's worth, the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer ran an entire segment on the growing antiwar movement that is in fact taking it to the streets. (not that the NewsHour is any decent barometer, but...) It showed a bit of the organization going on in Chicago, which the NewsHour tagged as the most vocal antiwar movement in the States... At 08:54 AM 11/26/2002, you wrote: >there;s actually a very healthy anti-war movement, but it's not >taking to the streets; i think during the reagan era that became >discredited as a form of registering public opinion (remember the >rise of the "opinion poll" during those years?). instead, the >internet has been a prime organizing force; groups like moveon.org >and truemajority have been pretty effective in mobilizing mass >activity like faxing, phone calls and money-raising. i'm not sure >bush even really wants war --but he sure wants to scare us into >thinking we need to go to war --and then when we're all looking at >iraq, or afghanistan, or yemen, he turns the u.s. into a police state. > >ps i'm opposed to the war too, obviously. > >At 9:47 PM -0800 11/25/02, Stephen Vincent wrote: >>This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >>opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >>if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >>participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >>or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >>demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >>in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >>for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >>inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >>potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >>(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >>be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >>movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >>Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >>inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >>be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >>hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >>to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >>charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >>objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >>cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >>And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >>mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >>and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >>will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >>spectacle. >>In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >>why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >>weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >>determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? >> >>Stephen Vincent >> >>on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: >> >> > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >> > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >>> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >> > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >> > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >> > advanced. >> > >>> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >>> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >>> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >>> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has >>> probably >>> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a >>> section >>> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >>> >>> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >>> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >>> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >> > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It >> amounts >> > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >>> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >>> the present denial of opposition to the war. >>> >>> Barrett Watten > > >-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:26:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: disingeuous In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In terms of "performance," it all depends on the performer's/s' motives. What is it that they are trying to convey? During the mid-90s, I along with a group of poets spent a great deal of time performing with the Boston free jazz band, The Fully Celebrated Orchestra. In addition to the poets from compost, we had an artist collaging our set on large swaths of craft paper. The collages were/are beautiful. Nonetheless, we spent a great deal of time talking with the band about what we were trying to do, what attitude we were trying to put forth. Our approach was to attempt to get on stage and talk as if we were talking to our friends on the street, which some could say that this is performance as well. But, we certainly weren't the Tiger Lillies who go up on stage trying to create a space that recalls a west bank bordello... (saw the T.L.'s recently -- fantastic performance) --Ak At 09:05 AM 11/26/2002, you wrote: >well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >wanting to be praised for it! > >At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >> >>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>for an audience. " >> >> >>BUT >> >>Maria (Hi!), >> >>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. >> >>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>performance. >> >>Yours, >>Patrick > > >-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:31:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Gallagher Subject: John Rawls MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 1920 to 2002 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:45:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Poetics of annihilation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed By way of a response to Richard Taylor, via Alan Sondheim, I'll put forward two examples of what one might term a "poetics of annihilation" that have come up recently. 1) At the Kathy Acker conference this month, I spoke of her fascination with the figures of Patty Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army as one of the ways she dealt with questions of identity, or more accurately nonidentity. It may be true that Patty Hearst was both daddy's little girl and "Tanya" simultaneously, thus bringing the psychodynamics of "acting out" into mainstream politics. The SLA was important because its politics were so dissociated as to have no serious credibility; it was thus a perfect specimen of a radical irrationalism that would be used to define "the terrorist" as a moment of discourse--i.e., a negativity that holds consensus politics together. When several members of the SLA were surrounded and killed in a Compton safe house, we had the spectacle of total state violence mobilized against an isolated irrationalist threat. I would propose that current social discourses of terrorism derive from such events. The consequence of the Patty Hearst/SLA episode was to remove oppositional politics from normative discourse and thus create a mode of social (re)production of irrational acts and state violence. In an important way, reading Acker can give us insight into the way we discursively inhabit this relationship. 2) The current film *8 Mile* might seen for what it can tell us about some of the social conditions of poetic speech. The film constructs a version of Detroit seen from the perspective of Eight Mile Road, the traditional dividing line between majority black Detroit and the majority white suburbs. The usual problematic is how does one get *through* Eight Mile--either to escape the inner city, or to make contact with the denied reality of it, depending on perspective. Here, the question is how to get *off* Eight Mile literally as an organizing dynamic; the hero white rapper (Rabbit, a.k.a. eminem) has got to resolve the unresolvable contradictions that define him from both sides of the line. This can only be done through poetry, in real time performance, in typical display behavior. The interesting part of the film, however, is precisely how Rabbit gets off Eight Mile (or is on his way toward doing so) by retreating from and turning inward the modes of aggression that are the lingua franca of his culture. His nonexistence (white trash in majority black culture) is thus both source and solution to his dilemma, yielding an inspired performance onstage that is precisely the "nonsolution that signifies," formulated as the avowal of his own nonexistence, irrelevance, castration. Poetic speech becomes an avowal of negativity within a contradictory social condition that would otherwise result in the poet's annihilation, where the only way *through* is *in*. BW ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:37:15 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Bob Grumman needs assistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attention administrators, listmembers! Apparently due to computer difficulties, our good friend Bob has been booted from the list. He needs assistance to facilitate his return. A welcome home party might thrill him also. He and I have been trying to contact the list manager (is it still Chris?) but our e-mails are bouncing back. If there's anyone out there who can help, please do. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:23:45 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021125163850.00acdcb8@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It should also be noted that this essay is on-line through libraries that subscribe to Project Muse. If my library out on an island in the North Atlantic does then I'm sure many out there do to. Cheerio, kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:16:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Either/Or on The War Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I appreciate being confronted on my views on this list because I strongly believe in the value of open discussion. But in order to clarify why I feel the way I do I have to be talk a bit about why, not only on a political/conceptual basis but on a personal one as well. When 9/11 hit I can't emphasize too much how grateful I felt to have an opportunity to air my feelings and views on this list. Before 9/11 I kind of noticed the list and once in awhile participated, but, to say the least, it was on the back burner of my mind and life. Since then participating here has become not only important to my daily life, but crucial. The reason is, my overall feeling about political discussion was- when it comes to literal discussion, who really gives a damn about what I have to say, especially when it comes to specifics? My approach was to communicate my views and philosophy through my writing. On the other hand, I listen closely to what other people have to say very carefully as I have friends who have thought all these things through a lot more carefully, and I may say successfully, than I have or probably ever will. Obviously, Barrett Watten is one of these people, him and the people he dialogues with regularly. I wrote what I wrote about flags because during the Vietnam war I became a member of the Resistance led by David Harris and burnt my draft card and participated in all the Columbia University demonstrations and traveled to Berkeley and Washington DC to participate in demonstrations. Since that time I have thought a lot about political polarization in the US and this concerns me very deeply. I appreciated my debates with Barrett because I learn from them. My initial reaction to 9/11 was a desire to leave New York. A lot of poet friends, plus my wife convinced me not to do this. Over time I seem to be coming closer to Barrett's clear stand against the war against Iraq. I am strongly against war philosophically, but I am very concerned about the threat of terrorism here in New York and everywhere else. I do not support George Bush's policies about the war, about the war on terrorism, nor his domestic policies on nearly every issue. I am heartened and cheered by anti-war demonstrations when I hear about them anywhere. On the other hand, I guess I have the feeling that if the US doesn't rattle its sabers and show a willingness to check and stand up to bullies, we may be giving a signal to them and their allies to go ahead hit some more. I do not feel it is possible to dialogue too much about these issues. I feel that there is as much to fear in people taking frozen stands as there is to fear in terrorism. In my view, if stands are frozen, it is because the people taking them frozen with fear and rage, which can only ignite the problem further. Anything anyone of us can do to to lower the rhetoric of war is valuable. On the other hand, if the polarization becomes too intense, the entire problem will be exacerbated. War can never ever be a solution to any social problem; but giving in to violence passively can also increase the aggression of bullies. As I've said before, we are surrounded by bullies. So what do we do? Say go ahead and fight it out? Tell one of them I'm on your side? Ignore the whole thing? Standing up to bullies, whether they are terrorists or American presidents has to be an option. How many peace marchers do we see lining the streets of Washington? How many peace marchers do we see in the cities of the Middle East? Nothing tires me more than empty slogans. As Antonio Porchia put it: "When the superficial wearies me, it wearies me so much I need an abyss in order to rest." Nick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:44:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Poetics of annihilation In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20021126090515.00b05008@mail.wayne.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Years ago I wrote an article "Annihilation: To the Limit!" - dealing with both (a critique of) marxism and a tendency to get it done with, in other words, bring it on. The problematic of terrorism isn't the destruction - it's the hiatus which is psychoanalytically filled with projections/intro- jections; that's the state we're dealing with - or that rather is being dealt to us - Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:29:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lowther, John" Subject: 3rdness Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain 3rdness is now linkable from www.atlantapoetsgroup.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:42:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Poem ending with the word "fire" an arm is a rose hey let's pretend ask all Grandmas to flex a lot or ought it be known their delirious secrets this is a begging desperate poem that wants to please you *you* it threatens threatens to corrupt but begs to please you yr head has a tenant that's stomping feet all a part of a pure zap bold pop of plasma stay alit all week each fire needs a dog but now I want to be the voice between your legs now I want you to hear the poem going on there the poem that's teasing your sister, who's no good for her at the end of the American experiment is a bill, more bombs an arm is a rose hey let's pretend ask all Grandmas hang on forever this is a begging desperate poem that wants to please you *you* I want it to be heard that wet voice that barking dog hey ask them it's that poem _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:50:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Behrle Subject: poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Poem beginning with the word "love" calculations serve the following pressures alone alone alone with skeletons there are no urgent voices of reason you are not a voice of reason you gave in quickly w/o a fight during this poem they carry the names of lovers they'd like to have calculations serve the following pressures carry names of the people you'd like to love during the reading of this poem, alone with skeletons skeletons skeletons there are no urgent reasons for voices you have no voice here they are singing a Radiohead song we're all pretty wasted w/o a fight you gave away all lovers to serve constellations your money melted away you're a faker during this poem, an alone skeleton, you Radiohead song we're all pretty wasted there's no urgent voices no reasons you have no voice and are easy to fuck to all skeletons serve the following pressures go ahead and sing _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:10:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Drunken Boat Subject: Drunken Boat, Issue#5 Live Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Check out for the latest issue of Drunken Boat. Featuring an eclectic mix of new work including interactive web art, video installations, a never-before-seen lyrical translation of Rimbaud, an improvised comic audio dialogue, a collection of dynamic visual aphorisms, a proposed curriculum for a bardic school, and a selection of photographs that document how Serbia's natural and cultural monuments have persisted in the face of civil war. Please send any comments/questions/work to: editors@drunkenboat.com Issue#5 includes: Poetry: Rosanna Warren, Kenny Goldsmith, Jon Pineda, Mark Conway, Kathleen Ossip, Sharon Dolin, Simon Perchik Ray Gonzalez, Kathryn Rantala, Paul Hardacre, Halvard Johnson and Ian Randall Wilson Translation: William Allegrazza, Ünal Aytür and Mark Spitzer Sound: Theresa Rosas, Edward Ruchalski, Mac Dunlop and Paul A. Toth Photo/Video: Andrija Ilic, Machfield, Sharon Paz and Graham Nicholls Web Art: Emma Braslavsky, Jonathan Carr, Curt Cloninger, Ian Finch, Jeanie Finlay and David Hirmes Prose: Philip Brady, John Rocco, Katherine Darnell, Johnny Pence, Steve Potter and Vashni De Schepper Hope you enjoy! Ravi Shankar ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:40:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Raised in a Barn #3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raised in a Barn #3 This beautiful little journal is accepting submissions of prose fiction and creative essays for its third issue. http://www.massdeportation.org/ I had poems in the second issue (the editors removed the line breaks to make them prose), which was really a well-produced, pleasant literary object. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:50:44 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Poetry How it is Informed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan has an interesting point about terrorism...bring things on = ...that's interesting: but how much of the political sitiuation is = "informing" our writing poetics now. I find it difficult to write these = days...however I dont know how much that is my distraction in the "rage" = to earn a crust or the politics is intruding: sometimes i wish all this = would go away: its like a monstrous dream. thank god for valium and a = little booze.=20 Nick I know where you're coming from: I found that in 1993 the only way = I could cope with NY (which is a fantastic place) was to get boozed evey = night! This was way before I connected politics with lit....I was trying = to avoid politics right up to S11... its strange but I'm quite = indifferent to what happens (with some exceptions) in NZ eg Air NZ is = being sold but I simply dont care and there endless murder trials and I = just dont read about them (except I'm interested in the trial of a cop = as it may effect the legal psosition of my own son and possibilities of = reparations and apologies and also psychological benefits and social = depending on how it goes)...but just about everything else that happens = in NZ I m indifferent to: including sport but I watch to see what's = happenning in Israel an Iraq..that's all I'm interested in...strange)... But I dont write much that is "consciousy" or overtly political...or do = i ...how do oters react cope respond. Apologies I havent read Ron's Blog = yet or Barrett Watten's response.=20 Richard the (slightly (?) crazy) Kiwi. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:16:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: A nation of nothing but ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 'Moron Bush' aide resigns http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2516939.stm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:56:45 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: Stir Frys (Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested in this project... Although I have my hand in many pots these days and tend to stop and spend an afternoon doing soimething ludicrous and silly (see my "call for work" to follow). I gather with the reference to InnerHTML that this only works on IE, not Netscape 4. Does it work on NS 6 & 7? How hard is it to stri fryify one's text? Do all the authors use the same algorithm, say the one you created and posted on Vispo? Or is creating the algorithm the main part of creating thhe stir fry work? To me, the main part would be choosing what chunks could be modified, and whether they would just be rollovers, cycling through a long list of replacements for that spot, or instead a more interesting algorithm that moves some texts around thereby changing emphases and meanings. Do you do this to one large text, use stir fryification to crteate a text from scratch based on an existing text you have wriotten but do not use explicitly in the piece, or can you rewrite existing texts? I want to use a certain body of short texts, not one long text, and I'd like to make new texts in the series perhaps, but maybe let the reader see the "real" texts" first.... But this is just idle speculation in a way. I;lll really do it if the prpcess is not tooo long and consists of creative work, but if it onvolves a lot of re-typing texts with brackets and commas and quotes aded, I probably willl give up.... Millie ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Andrews To: Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 4:53 AM Subject: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel > It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at > http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+). > > There's discussion between Pauline and me concerning "Blue Hyacinth" and the stir frys at > http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/mazconv.htm . > > "The story has already been written...her blue hyacinth voice. > The story has already been written another in the corner is smoking. > The story has already been written in colour. > The story has already been written and he's just here now to watch it played out." > > In one of the four texts, we read of a night club owner's remote reaction to his blowing up a > rival night club called The Blue Hyacinth. In another, a woman describes the actions of someone > who broke into her house and left voice recordings on all her tapes, leaves voice messages on > her phone, "it goes on for months, her blue hyacinth voice." In another of the texts, a woman > relates of having won money bet on Blue Hyacinth at the track, and her own inexplicable giving > up of the winnings. > > Masurel has used the mechanism of the stir fry to transform fictive stories/vignettes into a > vortex of poetry...and back again to fiction, as you please. > > Many thanks to Pauline for "Blue Hyacinth" and its transformations through the shapes of fiction > and poetry. > > There are now five stir fry texts involving various participants: Pauline, Brian Lennon, Leo > Marx, Jerome McGann, Talan Memmott, Mary Phillips, Joseph Weizenbaum, Lee Worden, and > translation into Chinese of one of them by Shuen-shing Lee. They have been published in the Iowa > Review Web, ubu.com, DOC(K)S from France, Taiwan, and offline in Denmark. The project was > started in 1999 and may or may not be finished according to whether the form inspires others to > do something different with it, as Pauline has. > > The stir fry form keys on the DHTML innerHTML method which allows you to change the HTML code > inside a or
. Pauline's "Blue Hyacinth" can transform into > 4^30=1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts as you mouse over it. So the 'whole thing' will > never be read. But neither need all 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts be read to grasp > what we would call 'the meaning' of the piece. > > As we move into combinatorially complex works, we realize that what it means to read a > combinatorium with subtlety and comprehension does not involve the necessarily impossible task > of reading all the possibilities of a combinatorium but, rather, getting a sense of the > directions in which the possibilities tend by sampling them until they begin to diminish in > significant difference. In the end, we see that the mind ranges very quickly through > 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 despite its seeming insuperability. A text of > 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 possibilities is still amenable to the creation of meaning on a human > scale not simply by disregarding most of the possibilities, but by virtue of the way the > underlying 4 texts guide the reader through primary (spanning set) spaces of meaning. > > ja ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:48:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: A nation of nothing but ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now, if we'd only get a message with one of those four words omitted. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { 'Moron Bush' aide resigns { { http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2516939.stm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:05:09 -0500 Reply-To: Millie Niss on eathlink Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Millie Niss on eathlink Subject: irrelevant post on war and tolerance :-) Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Claymore's Discovery = of His True Nature =20 Claymore Smith sat in his favorite armchair munching on = madeleines, happily listening to tales of maiming and accidental death = in post-Khmer Rouge Cambodia. He enjoyed hard news, especially anything = one could get indignant about on moral grounds which also carried vivid = imagery he could savor. =20 Then he heard the sentence: "Five year-old Dat lost three toes, = one ear, and a foot to a Claymore in her grandmother's rice paddy." A = Claymore, Claymore thought! I am a land mine? =20 The next time he talked to his former draft resister, SDS-member = father he popped the question: "Dad, am I adopted?" =20 "How did you find out after all this time? We tried so hard to = conceal it from you because we didn't want the influence of your birth = family to corrupt our liberal upbringing. You see, your father was a = hero. A Green Beret. Who named his first son after his favorite weapon. = He got a medal for killing a twelve year-old armed with a pineapple. = He thought it was a grenade..." =20 "Oh my God, I'm a land mine!" =20 "No, dear, you were simply the product of a sick sociological = system. Individuals aren't to blame. I hope you don't hate your = father. He was a brave man." =20 "You are my father. But maybe not. How could you be the father = of a landmine?" =20 "Don't be prejudiced. Not everyone is enlightened. It was a = dismal period, when you were born. No one knew what to believe. It's = not his fault. He probably was a good man. He probably thought he was = doing good. You mustn't be judgmental..." =20 "But you are human!" =20 "What do you mean?" =20 "A human couldn't be the father of a land mine. Plus, when do = I blow up?" =20 "Son?" =20 "Am I pressure sensitive? Or remote controlled. I must be = remote controlled because people have laid down on me and..." =20 "I DON'T want to hear about it. Don't ask, don't tell. Like = the Army. I just don't want to know, ok. I don't want to imagine = anyone on top of my son doing anything! Do you understand? Haven't I = made myself clear on this subject before? Your choices are your = choices, but some things are just not talked about between father and = son, or really not at all. I understand that it is necessary to = tolerate deviant lifestyles, I've often preached this from my pulpit at = the Unitarian Church, but do you know how humiliating it is for me to = have one for my son when I am tantamount to a public figure? Hey, = there's the priest with the gay son, people say as I walk down the = street. Wonder where he caught it from... I hear it's taught in = seminary ha ha ha. All day I have to imagine people saying these things = about me. I hear them in my head. Hey gay-son priest! Fag son. I am = so furious that you brought this loathsome subject up again that I'm = tempted to press the button. How dare you disturb my peace which = passeth all understanding? I am nearing Nirvana, I can feel myself = becoming enlightened and there you go making me be unmindful. I have = devoted years of meditation to banishing thoughts of the body from my = consciousness and you have ruined it! Once I was plagued by images of = carnal embrace. I was blind, but now can see, now that the true Light = can shine through with no base imaginings to block Its immanence. But = you have taken the Light from mine eyes with your so-called lifestyle = and your insistence on discussing it. The sun is dark to me and the = Light of God cannot shine through. You are no son of mine, landmine! =20 "Daddy, love me! It's hard being a weapon aimed at killing = civilian populations. It makes me feel guilty. I'm afraid I might blow = up and hurt someone. Hug me, daddy! I love you!" =20 "Love from the likes of you is a nauseating thought. I am not a = fag, Go love someone who wants to perform the sin of Sodom. I am not = interested. I am pure. Love from you is a contamination." =20 "Daddy... I can't help it. I am attracted to men. It's not a = ch....AAAAAAHHHH!" =20 BOOM. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:56:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: pepsi In-Reply-To: <20021122021847.17507.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >The "punch-line" I meant in the humor of my post was >that it was terrified by Pepsi but said nothing >against dexedrine. > >The idea of citing "Pepsi and dexedrine" at all struck >me as funny, as a form, that pairing of the >ubiquitously innocent (soda/pop) and a dangerous >controlled substance in one conjunction. Pepsi is not dangerous? -- George Bowering Has terrible bed hair. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:46:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: pepsi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bowering" > Pepsi is not dangerous? This is not true :-) There is an urban ledged going around town that Pepsi is going to be the next terrorist attack. The tale (as I have heard it many times from different people have many variations but) goes something like this: A person goes into a store and helps out an older foreign woman and she is so impressed with this person's random act of kindness that she tells the person to not drink Pepsi anymore and it will soon be poison. Go figure :-) Best, Geoffrey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:23:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: pepsi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > George Bowering > Has terrible bed hair. God, George, me too. When I look in the mirror first thing in the morning I have to stop myself from calling Tom Ridge to report that the terrorists have been fucking with my hair in the middle of the night. One day I won't be able to stop myself. That's when I'll know the terrorists have won. Yesterday my cat finally got fed up with me. "Does everything always have to be about terrorists?" she meowed. "In this case, yes," I insisted. "Because when it's code yellow, I'm supposed to be on the fucking lookout." It didn't much surprise me that my ex-wife turned out to be a terrorist. But she's not the one messing with my hair. Could it be the cat? What would Tom Ridge say if I called him to report my cat? He'd probably laugh in his affable way and say, "Don't worry, Damian, we've got pet surveillance pretty much tied up. If your cat had been tousling your pompadour in the wee hours, believe me, I'd already know about it." It's a comforting thought, but it still doesn't answer the basic question. Now that I've crossed ex-wife and cat off the list, who's left? I do have a lot of ants in the bathroom all of a sudden. God knows those little fuckers are capable of concerted effort. But ants stand to gain so little if the terrorists win, it's hard to fathom why they'd get involved. Unless ... Wait, that's it -- the ants, they're completely outside the loop of Total Information Awareness! Do they even have fingerprints? A little hair-displacement en route from computer to bedroom window is the only trace of their nefarious nocturnal operations. It's all starting to fall into place. These ants -- they have no citizenship status, no social security numbers. They don't pay taxes. They live in basically the equivalent of caves. In fact, don't those little tunnels have CELLS in them? The big question now -- I'd really better call Tom -- is this: did Osama teach the ants everything they know, OR DID THE ANTS TEACH OSAMA? (Sorry, bad head cold, Damian) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:40:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas Albert Moon Las Vegas, Nevada (NDP) -- U.N. weapons inspectors preparing for their first day of work in the United States say they will "freeze" the buildings they enter to prevent any evidence being smuggled out. Inspectors are preparing to use state-of-the-art equipment when they begin their search for alleged weapons of mass destruction on Wednesday. Inspectors believe Pentagon officials may smuggle documents or evidence out as inspectors go into nuclear test sites, offices and factories and say they will now prevent anyone moving in or out of the buildings. The 17 inspectors include 11 from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), who will focus on chemical and biological weapons, and 6 from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) who will investigate any nuclear weapons capability. Demetrius Perricos, head of the atomic team, told reporters Tuesday that state-of-the art equipment was necessary "because the eyes can fool anybody." "You can enter a room which is empty, but that room might have a history and only if you are taking samples or doing some measurements you can find out that the room is not as empty as you thought it was," he said. Inspectors have showed reporters some of the high-tech equipment they will use -- including devices that allow for rapid detection of the presence of chemical, biological, or nuclear substances that may indicate a facility has been used for developing weapons capability. Inspectors will take air samples and "swipes" of objects within a site, as well as other types of samples, and examine them for things such as radioactive isotopes. They will also seal up some objects. Information will be sent immediately to laboratories in Moscow and Vienna. Information collected from the inspections will be cross-referenced against files showing what substances should be present given the site's official purpose. "Technology of today is having much progress in terms of what it provides for a rapid detection of biological or chemical substances," Perricos said. Pointing to the relatively small size of the detection devices, he said: "Thank God they made it portable and not just transportable." Perricos was asked whether the arms monitors would be looking for suspected mobile biological weapons laboratories in trailers identified previously as houses of prostitution. "We have some plans," he said. Perricos said ground-penetrating radar would be used to locate possible buried storage or production sites. Jacques Baute, head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Committee (UNMOVIC) said: "We are fully conscious of the responsibility we have on our shoulders. "We have an access anywhere and access anywhere is translated into inspections to any type of facilities. "Anytime is one of the key parameters regarding the credibility of the conclusions, and another translation is immediate access. "If we have access immediately to a site the credibility of our conclusion if we find nothing there is far higher than if there is any notice, even of one or two hours." Under the terms of Resolution 1441, passed this month, Washington must provide a list of their weapons of mass destruction to the Security Council by December 8. The United States has vowed to meet the deadline and has said inspectors will be given complete access to all sites. The U.N. inspectors are to report to the Security Council by late January on their initial round of inspections, including whether the Americans have been fully cooperative. The United States has assailed the resolution and called it a result of the desire of the members of the United Nations to eliminate its right to bear nuclear arms in support of regional enforcement of international oil and trade agreements. Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter rejected Washington's claims. "Washinton has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons program," he told CNN's Bagdad Morning with Paula Zahn. Butler said the United States has a history of lying to the U.N. "This is a long- standing American approach, but they can't take that approach this time," he said. "This current resolution of the Security Council is black and white, it makes very clear, you will tell the truth or else, and I hope they get that." Meanwhile, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr said the United Nations Navy will have four aircraft carriers within striking distance of the United States at some point in mid-December -- but U.N. military officials have emphasized they have no reason to believe the congregation of warships could mark the beginning of any attack on the United States. The assembling of such a large number of carriers is said to be an accident of a global preservation and deployment schedule and the overlap should only exist for a few days. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:42:25 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: the insincerity of poetic candor Comments: To: Maria Damon In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do agree with this. Perhaps in order to close our seeming linguistic gap, we could say that such a poem as Frost's is *deliberately* disingenuous, and perhaps its deliberately so for marketing purposes. I don't really know about the market intents of that poem of his in particular, or any others for that matter, but of course it seems it is a reasonable guess to say that it is. Authenticity, especially authentic solitude, is good business in poetry. Get one of them thar $100k prizes for poetry...that's not any piddling amount of dough. Even in Manhattan that's a decent down payment on a piece of real estate. Some people will do "what it takes," or rather, what takes it: the money. Oh the fame, & the seeming immortality--those too. But how or why, I now wonder, do we want to draw a line between us and those mainstreamers crap-ola-ing poetry? I mean, I saw that article in the NYTimes (was it there?) about Bernstein. Here's more "one of us" than "one of them" though he is regularly accused by people I respect highly as just another "one of them." That article was just awful, sophomoric, cheap, and done in front of so many people. Maybe Bernstein's largest audience. That was the outside world drawing a line around some of us right here. Anyway, this sort of us/them gesture getting anywhere near poets is beginning to make me nervous. I'm just as bad, if not worse, than the next person. Maybe it's because my wife is teaching me how to pick my battles--I think I am finally beginning to understand this concept. And so I'm afraid now to pick battles with other poets, because to the world outside of poetry looking in, we're all nothing but shit it seems--every last one of us. Just in time for America to create its own spin-off into a world domination machine repressing just about everything inside or out. Confessional or no, a poet might just equal a problem to everyone that's not a poet soon enough. (At least outside urban areas...so many non-poets in NYC seem to be sympathetic to poets, for example. There are of course exceptions and they will remain.) I am in mind of the myth of the Jesus story about not casting the first stone: maybe telling people it is wrong for some fantastic reason instead of telling them the truth is more effective. It seems more poetic in some fucked up way. If a person casts a stone, others are more ready to cast stones, and we might just end up getting a whole lot of stone-throwing. But telling people the truth won't stop 'em: so give the people "sin." *Something* other-worldly: tell them it'll put them on a never-ending hayride through hell. Telling people the truth sometimes leads us away from the truth. That really sucks. Ugh. Did I just write that? Tell a lie, we're fucked; tell the truth, we're fucked. Tell a lie, tell the truth, tell a lie, tell the truth, is how the joke goes ("What did Raggedy Ann say to Pinocchio as she was sitting on his face?") I wonder about this different sense of candor to which I was referring, the sort of candor that is also artful. And full of art (or at least plodding along that line). I can't be sincere in order to be sincere. That is of course inherently conflicted, yet there it is. Here I am, displaying sincerity in an inherently artful & public arena. I do think my disingenuousness is OK, because it brings along with it my candor. Perhaps I think I can only get the truth with exaggeration or a series of other deceptive/manipulative gestures. But I have to wonder, how much different am I than Frost perhaps? Other than the talented or famous or mainstream categories, of course. How many of us poets are free of such complications? I doubt when it comes down to it very few of us are. And I'm scared of those left over. :) Even an emoticon seems both genuine and disingenuous simultaneously. A poem from anyone seems to me a ploy, a stratagem, whether it be for self-expression, self-denial, cash, or anything in between, even if the poem de-ploys the ployishness of a poem. Even that sort of (perhaps deconstructive) poem is still is in itself that gesture of desire for something or other. Even a randomly generated computer poem falls into that category of being in some way a ploy. Something disingenuous always seems to be present in a poem. Assonance, for example. Formal stricture. Poetic diction. Displaying it in an audience. Etc. Maybe even the very formation or use of any word, in any context, through any medium, for that matter. Please forgive me if I'm beginning to sound like Stuart Smalley. You know the SNL character: "I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and, Doggone it, People Like Me..." P -----Original Message----- From: Maria Damon [mailto:damon001@umn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:06 AM To: patrick@proximate.org; UB Poetics discussion group Subject: Re: disingeuous well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and wanting to be praised for it! At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": > >"disingenuous of course, because always, the >evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >for an audience. " > > >BUT > >Maria (Hi!), > >Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. > >I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >performance. > >Yours, >Patrick -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:17:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: pepsi In-Reply-To: <001401c295ae$5d383cd0$605e3318@LINKAGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >----- Original Message ----- >From: "George Bowering" > > >> Pepsi is not dangerous? > > >This is not true :-) There is an urban ledged going around town that Pepsi >is going to be the next terrorist attack. The tale (as I have heard it many >times from different people have many variations but) goes something like >this: A person goes into a store and helps out an older foreign woman and >she is so impressed with this person's random act of kindness that she tells >the person to not drink Pepsi anymore and it will soon be poison. Go figure >:-) > >Best, Geoffrey Quick, tell Amiri! -- George Bowering Has terrible bed hair. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:45:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Scappettone" Subject: Holloway Poetry Series presents Forrest Hamer and Angie Yuan, 12/3 Comments: To: Abigail Reyes , "Karen Leitsch (by way of Abigail Reyes )" Comments: cc: africam@uclink.berkeley.edu, complit@ls.berkeley.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Forrest Hamer will be reading in UC-Berkeley's Holloway Poetry Series on December 3 at 6 pm in the Maud Fife Room (Wheeler Hall, Room 315, on the Third Floor) on the University campus Forrest Hamer is the author of Call & Response (Alice James Books, 1995), winner of the Beatrice Hawley Award, and Middle Ear (Roundhouse, 2000), winner of the Bay Area Book Reviewers Association (BABRA) Award. His work has appeared in many journals, and has been anthologized in Best American Poetry, Poet's Choice: Poems for Everyday Life, The Geography of Home: California=B9s Poetry of Place, and Making Callaloo: 25 Years of Black Literature. Hamer is also a Bay Area psychologist and a lecturer at the University of California, Berkeley. The event will begin with a reading by Angie Yuan, who is a graduate student in the Asian Studies Department studying modern Chinese literature and translation practices in contemporary Chinese poetry. She received her MFA from the University of Arizona in 1996 and is currently working on a first collection of poetry. Colloquium with the poets begins at 4:30 p.m. in the English Dept. Lounge, 330 Wheeler Hall Readings begin at 6 pm, Maud Fife Room, 315 Wheeler Hall, UC Berkele= y Free and open to the public ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:35:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: World AIDS Day Reading--November 30, 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE =A0 Subway--N,R/Prince; C,E/Spring; 1,9/Canal =A0 World AIDS Day is an annual observance on December 1. At the Ear Inn, we do a World AIDS Day Reading on the closest Saturday. This year, it's November 30. Over the years, our annual reading has become a community observance. Readers will include Michael Broder Steven Cordova Patrick Donnelly David Groff Walter Holland Michael Klein Daniel Nester Jason Schneiderman Richard Tayson For more info, contact Michael Broder at earinnpoetry@nyc.rr.com or visit our Web site: http://home.nyc.rr.com/earinnreadings ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:20:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: the insincerity of poetic candor Comments: To: patrick@proximate.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ok --again, points well taken. it seems to me --and this is not ironclad --that alternative poetries do *not* dwell on bourgeois solitude as the ideal circumstances under which poetry can be written. community is much more important, or the completely radical solitude of the prison cell, which ain't all that solitary. so there is no need to create a division between appearance-of-masterful-solitude (as opposed to the abject solitude or isolation of the yearning adolescent, the prisoner or the psychiatric inmate) and performing-for-an-audience. At 8:42 PM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >I do agree with this. Perhaps in order to close our seeming linguistic gap, >we could say that such a poem as Frost's is *deliberately* disingenuous, and >perhaps its deliberately so for marketing purposes. I don't really know >about the market intents of that poem of his in particular, or any others >for that matter, but of course it seems it is a reasonable guess to say that >it is. Authenticity, especially authentic solitude, is good business in >poetry. Get one of them thar $100k prizes for poetry...that's not any >piddling amount of dough. Even in Manhattan that's a decent down payment on >a piece of real estate. Some people will do "what it takes," or rather, >what takes it: the money. Oh the fame, & the seeming immortality--those >too. > >But how or why, I now wonder, do we want to draw a line between us and those >mainstreamers crap-ola-ing poetry? I mean, I saw that article in the >NYTimes (was it there?) about Bernstein. Here's more "one of us" than "one >of them" though he is regularly accused by people I respect highly as just >another "one of them." That article was just awful, sophomoric, cheap, and >done in front of so many people. Maybe Bernstein's largest audience. That >was the outside world drawing a line around some of us right here. Anyway, >this sort of us/them gesture getting anywhere near poets is beginning to >make me nervous. I'm just as bad, if not worse, than the next person. >Maybe it's because my wife is teaching me how to pick my battles--I think I >am finally beginning to understand this concept. And so I'm afraid now to >pick battles with other poets, because to the world outside of poetry >looking in, we're all nothing but shit it seems--every last one of us. Just >in time for America to create its own spin-off into a world domination >machine repressing just about everything inside or out. Confessional or no, >a poet might just equal a problem to everyone that's not a poet soon enough. >(At least outside urban areas...so many non-poets in NYC seem to be >sympathetic to poets, for example. There are of course exceptions and they >will remain.) > >I am in mind of the myth of the Jesus story about not casting the first >stone: maybe telling people it is wrong for some fantastic reason instead of >telling them the truth is more effective. It seems more poetic in some >fucked up way. If a person casts a stone, others are more ready to cast >stones, and we might just end up getting a whole lot of stone-throwing. But >telling people the truth won't stop 'em: so give the people "sin." >*Something* other-worldly: tell them it'll put them on a never-ending >hayride through hell. Telling people the truth sometimes leads us away from >the truth. That really sucks. Ugh. Did I just write that? Tell a lie, >we're fucked; tell the truth, we're fucked. Tell a lie, tell the truth, >tell a lie, tell the truth, is how the joke goes ("What did Raggedy Ann say >to Pinocchio as she was sitting on his face?") > >I wonder about this different sense of candor to which I was referring, the >sort of candor that is also artful. And full of art (or at least plodding >along that line). I can't be sincere in order to be sincere. That is of >course inherently conflicted, yet there it is. Here I am, displaying >sincerity in an inherently artful & public arena. I do think my >disingenuousness is OK, because it brings along with it my candor. Perhaps >I think I can only get the truth with exaggeration or a series of other >deceptive/manipulative gestures. But I have to wonder, how much different >am I than Frost perhaps? Other than the talented or famous or mainstream >categories, of course. How many of us poets are free of such complications? >I doubt when it comes down to it very few of us are. And I'm scared of >those left over. :) > >Even an emoticon seems both genuine and disingenuous simultaneously. > >A poem from anyone seems to me a ploy, a stratagem, whether it be for >self-expression, self-denial, cash, or anything in between, even if the poem >de-ploys the ployishness of a poem. Even that sort of (perhaps >deconstructive) poem is still is in itself that gesture of desire for >something or other. Even a randomly generated computer poem falls into that >category of being in some way a ploy. Something disingenuous always seems >to be present in a poem. Assonance, for example. Formal stricture. Poetic >diction. Displaying it in an audience. Etc. Maybe even the very formation >or use of any word, in any context, through any medium, for that matter. > >Please forgive me if I'm beginning to sound like Stuart Smalley. You know >the SNL character: "I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and, Doggone it, >People Like Me..." > >P > >-----Original Message----- >From: Maria Damon [mailto:damon001@umn.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:06 AM >To: patrick@proximate.org; UB Poetics discussion group >Subject: Re: disingeuous > > >well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >wanting to be praised for it! > >At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >> >>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>for an audience. " >> >> >>BUT >> >>Maria (Hi!), >> >>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a >private >>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for >candor >>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above >statement. >> >>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am >just >>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>performance. >> >>Yours, >>Patrick > > >-- -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:03:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: bowering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" aha! i thought it was "Bowering for Columbine." that wd be very compelling indeed. At 3:46 PM -0700 11/25/02, George Bowering wrote: >>> We should all >>>move to Canada and say what we think of the current situation, because >>>obviously it can't be done here. If a poet could speak, we wouldn't >>>understand him/her--due to the way the reception has been constructed. >> >>We ARE getting a little scared of what is happening down there. >>Recently saw "Bowling for Columbine." If that is a true story, why >>don't we just get flame throwers are have at each other and get it >>over? >> >>-- >>George Bowering >>Becomingly humble. >>Fax 604-266-9000 -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:46:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "No Chance of Parole" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No Chance of Parole 1. Suspicions, your main concern in gawk-eyed, shadowy tetchiness of yet another dance school. Throw somebody into disarray at tête-à-têtes of clustered fabrics in the school's nutritional regime, wrung from scenes of carnage, matrimonial voyages divinely beyond swoops of description, navigable every now and then. 2. Witlessly vulgar language hustled, blushing shabbily, new to the job in typography, usurping eye-openers in some movie-theater megaplex. Thunderstruck huskiness blurted out, chimed with blue eyeliner, gawkily unnewsworthy, now near enough to hear fabrications, wrong side up in a snow flurry. Nowhere to be found, sworn statements fly in the face of misconstruction, blindly clutching, prying your eyes out. "Thank goodness," the soothsayer saith, impulsively and glumly. Lying face down and taking twenty thwacks down in the dark of the scintillating caverns, tethered inch by inch, thudding, chewing away at the cud. Idle talk tyrannizing our system of government, hustling and bustling, lying under oath, caviling systematically. 3. Handpicked novices sterilizing bayonets before rustling up known malefactors, beyond description by word of mouth. Matrimonial fruitlessness, as is well known in syrupy fables, synthesized baying at the moon, wet behind the ears, hovering vivacious dynamite eyes, makeup trying to make an impression on our sullen mystifications, thus far flying off the handle sveltely, yet meticulously. Nuts about guillotining, yet near enough to hear indescribable scuttlebutt cavorting, feuding with nuts and bolts, sewing up a bit of fun: "Cutthroat world. Feverish Mutating Fuddy-Duddies." 4. Squirming, cabaret-wizened youngsters, third-rate yet fusty, wet with weather following on in the byways of mystique. Nippy textbook diffusions, thankful belief systems that brook no questions, no matter how mixed up we are, how dry our throats. Fatefully no-win situations as ferryboats sound their horns in the well-whittled fog, sounding as if, as they say. Whistled away at, wrong side up until, thunderstruck, we scrupulously read the whys and wherefores of futuristic dyings off, rustling in opposition to tableaux, gymnastically the worse for wear, hurt feelings to no avail. "I'm sorry?" I said. Tsk. Vituperative taxonomies, whiz kids toiling at sub-minimum-wage jobs, eyesight dimming, yet not much to see beyond the median, beyond that insipid dirt bike they rode in on, their ditzy cultural attaché, dozing away at some spa. Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:12:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Why did we ever stop?!? In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why did we ever stop?!? can anyone explain... can anyone com... the other left, then a right=20 down... -and then or than or when or and or when then or a hand in the -5? put forth with such voluptuousness, such macabre personages. with=20 corpses we cross like virtual suicide drains in my lover=92s=20 prefabrication, this cranium with a thousand years now, you exchange=20 the determination of other humans as though we do not engage this=20 repulsive posturing of stimulation, these terminals, these thrills,=20 these 4 o=92clock instances of my own disequilibrium. I myself among our=20= disquiet, our eyes our vast appearance of, which is, forced to then as=20= though absolutely the next enclosed supreme certitude, a letter=20 enclosed in a gesture of others enclosed in a not even..... -? then kiss abruptly midnight, if the fish feel these terminals, these=20 limbs....help!!! the mystery, right down a thousand years to a would=20 be guillotine with get 2 months *FREE*@ http:/ /.mc=3Dfeaturessquared/=20= junkmail, these limbs!!! (free)= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:43:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Henry James spam arrival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY=XYCOTINCBZbdBWcDQICBBeJUcGRPXc This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --XYCOTINCBZbdBWcDQICBBeJUcGRPXc Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --XYCOTINCBZbdBWcDQICBBeJUcGRPXc Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Content-Description: Received: (qmail 2953 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 21:23:24 -0000 Received: from mail1.panix.com (166.84.1.72) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 21:23:24 -0000 Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.1.3]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3572F4870A for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix3.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id gAQLN6e07889 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:23:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:23:06 -0500 (EST) From: Alan Sondheim To: Poetics Subject: Henry James spam arrival Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Henry James spam arrival [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Privately for your attention, My father is late now and I just have to confide in you. The soldiers have killed him and expelled us from the barracks. This is an urgent SOS and you are the only person I can rely on at this horrible times.Father managed to courier the family treasure box containing the investment money out to Europe for safe keeping befor his death. Claude and Nora are very sick and are staying with a distant family friend who does not know any thing about the family money. I need your help quite urgently as we are planning to emigrate from here to a safe country and put that family money to gainfull use. For security reasons, please respond to me immediately by email stating the only telephone and fax numbers that are directly to you so that I can commiunicate more to you about the situation and what needs to be done. Your's respectfully, Tudor Puletic --XYCOTINCBZbdBWcDQICBBeJUcGRPXc-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:31:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Because. . . In-Reply-To: <985123DA-021A-11D7-AF25-003065AC6058@sonic.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I had an hour to kill and tragic news to forget : The following image constitutes a literal transmogrification of the Barbara Guest poem "Heavy Violets," using a 1-1 letter->color mapping and some basic blurring and edge manipulation. Okay, so it's terribly stupid, but it also kind of works, I think, and if nothing else it was a way to pass the time in an hour of pain. I won't be doing any more of these unless I can encrust some theory around them first, so if anybody wants to help. . . http://aroseisaroseisarose.com/W2C01x.jpg -m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:45:07 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Because. . . In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Entre l'heure sans merci, voyez-vous les fleurs sans mal ni theorie? on 11/27/02 8:31 AM, MWP at mpalmer@JPS.NET wrote: > I had an hour to kill and tragic news to forget : > > The following image constitutes a literal transmogrification of the Barbara > Guest poem "Heavy Violets," using a 1-1 letter->color mapping and some basic > blurring and edge manipulation. Okay, so it's terribly stupid, but it also > kind of works, I think, and if nothing else it was a way to pass the time in > an hour of pain. I won't be doing any more of these unless I can encrust > some theory around them first, so if anybody wants to help. . . > > > http://aroseisaroseisarose.com/W2C01x.jpg > > > > > > -m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:38:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: the dumb-waiter was right In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the dumb-waiter was right there was a lamp in the windows eye and a dreamer curtains. one could discern certain shapes, it was a paradoxical drumroll, thus I freely extolled such and such and to name it. controlled by luck and "can you spare a dime" at local bargain hamlet store. without an indication from the shadows I drove my metaphor to the ocean and made a scene of it. jumping ahead, during a sultry june heat and pubescent december drill, orders were given in an all out scary scene of sunday on the pillage. there were replays of carnage decisions and overpaid blood sacrifices. the pure of heart rejoiced. on the edge of something was throughout, a fortune was named, the right question to the right answer, and an all out hunger for digits. then something else, at first it lay at the doorstep, with ripe eyes and noncommittal promises, tiger lilies in bloom, and a bed of responses. the next day, meanwhile an automatic result, of failed to date and a doubt. this sum up everything, little by little there were no new stories. crystallization, rapid movements and statistics detach themselves and comprised an all inclusive entertainment system. drudgery was replaced with silent well oiled steps. one day thoughts occurred, merely not serving a purpose, but aim, grid and figure of speech. as with any administration life became a relation to ambience. the sum was overturned for the good of influence and a major question. is is was doing, trees were divided, a stammering of forgetfulness actually sat down. all the sizes remain same for all and there was a kind of calm, lucid, and weightlessness of a drifting light holiday drink and a blue sky formed with words. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:20:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: the insincerity of poetic candor on Thanksgiving MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Is a poem to be shared in prisons tomorrow or abstracted in academy or other obscurities? tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 7:20 AM Subject: Re: the insincerity of poetic candor > ok --again, points well taken. it seems to me --and this is not > ironclad --that alternative poetries do *not* dwell on bourgeois > solitude as the ideal circumstances under which poetry can be > written. community is much more important, or the completely radical > solitude of the prison cell, which ain't all that solitary. so there > is no need to create a division between > appearance-of-masterful-solitude (as opposed to the abject solitude > or isolation of the yearning adolescent, the prisoner or the > psychiatric inmate) and performing-for-an-audience. > > At 8:42 PM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: > >I do agree with this. Perhaps in order to close our seeming linguistic gap, > >we could say that such a poem as Frost's is *deliberately* disingenuous, and > >perhaps its deliberately so for marketing purposes. I don't really know > >about the market intents of that poem of his in particular, or any others > >for that matter, but of course it seems it is a reasonable guess to say that > >it is. Authenticity, especially authentic solitude, is good business in > >poetry. Get one of them thar $100k prizes for poetry...that's not any > >piddling amount of dough. Even in Manhattan that's a decent down payment on > >a piece of real estate. Some people will do "what it takes," or rather, > >what takes it: the money. Oh the fame, & the seeming immortality--those > >too. > > > >But how or why, I now wonder, do we want to draw a line between us and those > >mainstreamers crap-ola-ing poetry? I mean, I saw that article in the > >NYTimes (was it there?) about Bernstein. Here's more "one of us" than "one > >of them" though he is regularly accused by people I respect highly as just > >another "one of them." That article was just awful, sophomoric, cheap, and > >done in front of so many people. Maybe Bernstein's largest audience. That > >was the outside world drawing a line around some of us right here. Anyway, > >this sort of us/them gesture getting anywhere near poets is beginning to > >make me nervous. I'm just as bad, if not worse, than the next person. > >Maybe it's because my wife is teaching me how to pick my battles--I think I > >am finally beginning to understand this concept. And so I'm afraid now to > >pick battles with other poets, because to the world outside of poetry > >looking in, we're all nothing but shit it seems--every last one of us. Just > >in time for America to create its own spin-off into a world domination > >machine repressing just about everything inside or out. Confessional or no, > >a poet might just equal a problem to everyone that's not a poet soon enough. > >(At least outside urban areas...so many non-poets in NYC seem to be > >sympathetic to poets, for example. There are of course exceptions and they > >will remain.) > > > >I am in mind of the myth of the Jesus story about not casting the first > >stone: maybe telling people it is wrong for some fantastic reason instead of > >telling them the truth is more effective. It seems more poetic in some > >fucked up way. If a person casts a stone, others are more ready to cast > >stones, and we might just end up getting a whole lot of stone-throwing. But > >telling people the truth won't stop 'em: so give the people "sin." > >*Something* other-worldly: tell them it'll put them on a never-ending > >hayride through hell. Telling people the truth sometimes leads us away from > >the truth. That really sucks. Ugh. Did I just write that? Tell a lie, > >we're fucked; tell the truth, we're fucked. Tell a lie, tell the truth, > >tell a lie, tell the truth, is how the joke goes ("What did Raggedy Ann say > >to Pinocchio as she was sitting on his face?") > > > >I wonder about this different sense of candor to which I was referring, the > >sort of candor that is also artful. And full of art (or at least plodding > >along that line). I can't be sincere in order to be sincere. That is of > >course inherently conflicted, yet there it is. Here I am, displaying > >sincerity in an inherently artful & public arena. I do think my > >disingenuousness is OK, because it brings along with it my candor. Perhaps > >I think I can only get the truth with exaggeration or a series of other > >deceptive/manipulative gestures. But I have to wonder, how much different > >am I than Frost perhaps? Other than the talented or famous or mainstream > >categories, of course. How many of us poets are free of such complications? > >I doubt when it comes down to it very few of us are. And I'm scared of > >those left over. :) > > > >Even an emoticon seems both genuine and disingenuous simultaneously. > > > >A poem from anyone seems to me a ploy, a stratagem, whether it be for > >self-expression, self-denial, cash, or anything in between, even if the poem > >de-ploys the ployishness of a poem. Even that sort of (perhaps > >deconstructive) poem is still is in itself that gesture of desire for > >something or other. Even a randomly generated computer poem falls into that > >category of being in some way a ploy. Something disingenuous always seems > >to be present in a poem. Assonance, for example. Formal stricture. Poetic > >diction. Displaying it in an audience. Etc. Maybe even the very formation > >or use of any word, in any context, through any medium, for that matter. > > > >Please forgive me if I'm beginning to sound like Stuart Smalley. You know > >the SNL character: "I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and, Doggone it, > >People Like Me..." > > > >P > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Maria Damon [mailto:damon001@umn.edu] > >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:06 AM > >To: patrick@proximate.org; UB Poetics discussion group > >Subject: Re: disingeuous > > > > > >well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to > >say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's > >the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that > >solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by > >woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and > >wanting to be praised for it! > > > >At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: > >>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": > >> > >>"disingenuous of course, because always, the > >>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of > >>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance > >>for an audience. " > >> > >> > >>BUT > >> > >>Maria (Hi!), > >> > >>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, > >>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some > >>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., > >>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical > >>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, > >>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes > >>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am > >>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a > >private > >>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical > >>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for > >candor > >>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the > >>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of > >>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude > >>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above > >statement. > >> > >>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am > >just > >>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and > >>performance. > >> > >>Yours, > >>Patrick > > > > > >-- > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:53:59 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Sir Raven, His Cheese and His Child Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Nature (European first) O Methodology! -- All Science is Nature History challenging citizens' account of satirizing "'V' queries 'JH'" there are limits to every hole advertisements are cartoons commensurate with lifetime bystanders Poetics = dirty money with room for readiness the right crime presidential wink worms defined daily loose crack marginal verb niches gravely prescient irksome connections the inky tarnish of wet meat (sub-routed and assertive) taut edge polished and ethereal Hey you urchin naval NATHANIEL LEE entree young rubber-gloved effort through shot bless gloweringloweringg (sic) girl looking grounded soft periodic table of DISMEMBERMENT sheen thimble thighs ball ocean liner rinsed TABULA RASA (armed with fauna) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:28:02 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: stranger than fiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tom Tomorrow political cartoon: http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/11/25/tomo/index.html (My own little addendum to this cartoon: Eli Lilly (the company that brought us Prozac) has extensive ties to the Republicans. E.g., in 1977 when President-to-be George H. W. Bush left the CIA, he was made director of the company. Who appointed him? Dan Quayle's father, whose family owned a controlling interest in the company.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:05:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: R.Mutt and Jeff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed selected words observable | "phenomena's observable memory leaf | plasticity" continuous discrete recursives frame representations leaf notes the relapse calculated & collected leaf solution measures Omega-Objects cognitive structure a direct zero repeating identical moieties with deformation Trollope's trope toll fracture's continuum theory _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:02:29 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Babylon anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Bradley and William Witherup are gathering anti-War-on-Iraq poems for an anthology titled: HOW MANY MILES TO BABYLON. The title is taken from an 18th century, anonynmous nursery rhyme. No restrictions on form or style, except a maximum of sixty lines total. Writer may enter as many poems as he or she likes, but entries must be accompanied with a stamped, self- addressed envelope. Send to John Bradley/560 Normal Road/Dekalb, Illinois 60115. Please, no email submissions. (queries to jbradley@niu.edu ) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:51:06 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: "Outside of a dog" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:34:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Bush Names Kissinger to Head Sept. 11 Commission In-Reply-To: <010101c29656$b4eb5270$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII First Poindexter, now this: http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/11.28Ab.bush.kiss.911.htm <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:01:23 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Free Space Comix updates Comments: To: British Poetry List Comments: cc: Rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My most recent (and irreverent) column for St. Mark's is now on my blog: The Days of our Blogs http://www.arras.net/weblog/ ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:17:38 -0500 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: MLA reading Comments: cc: Jordan Davis , Adeena Karasick , Alan Gilbert , Allison Cobb , Anna Moschovakis , Anselm Berrigan , Brenda Coultas , carol mirakove , Charles Bernstein , Deidre Kovac , Doug Rothschild , drew gardner , Eddie Berrigan , edwin torres , Edric , Elizabeth Fodaski , Ethan Fugate , Gary Sullivan , Greg Fuchs , John Coletti , Karen Weiser , Katie Degentesh , Kevin Davies , Kristin Prevallet , Laura Elrick , Lee Ann Brown , Lytle Shaw , "M. Scharf - J. Wolfe" , Mariana Ruiz , Marianne Shaneen , Michael Scharf , Miles Champion , Nada Gordon , Rodrigo Toscano , Rick Snyder , Susan Landers , Barrett Watten In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helloooo... I've arranged a time and place for the "MLA reading" -- Dec. 28th, from 6-11, at the Bowery Poetry Club. It's a free event, Bob Holman's psyched about it, and all it seems to be is a matter of getting the poets there and getting the word out. BUUUTTTT... I've got way too much going on this month to organize this event. Both of my sisters are moving out of NY to CA in December -- one to SF to follow a job, the other to LA to follow a lover -- and I really want to have some good family time with them before they leave. This was all very sudden. I also have a dance/poetry performance on Dec. 15th that I'm rehearsing, am still dealing with Segue aftermath (checks, plain old burnout), a .pdf series for the ubu site (12 titles!), a job search (-$33 in the bank account yesterday), etc. - the full plate! I hate to be a jerk, but I'm just going to drop this entirely, cancel at the BPC, unless someone just takes over, because I'm at the end of my rope. Anyone you know who might be interested in arranging this reading? It should be pretty easy. Do it for the Gipper! Forward this email to your friends if you don't see them in the cc line. It should be a great event! There's also an honorarium for the MC/organizer from the BPC! Email me if you're interested... love and love Brian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:19:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Total Information Awareness: Poetry as Chronicle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Last night on the local news I saw a three-minute piece on Total Information Awareness, the project being led by Admiral John Poindexter. As with so many things that are happening in this lame duck century, it was reported straight, without inflection or innuendo, not even a raised eyebrow. It was just, "This is a new program of our government" with a few talking heads explaining its benefits and -- a bit more vaguely -- its threats to a democratic republic. Next, sports. (It later struck me that TIA was being presented *exactly* like the government recruitment ads in the movie *Starship Troopers* . . . which I seem to remember Jordan Davis liking). Such a phenomenon is a staple of Tom Tomorrow cartoons, of course, and I appreciated Kevin providing the latest example today; other list members have also mentioned TIA in satirical asides. But no matter how surreal things get (and Henry Kissinger chairing the September 11 investigative committee, a war criminal judging a potential war crime, is pretty surreal), this particular story still has me shaking my head: Admiral Poindexter, a convicted felon in the Iran-Contra scandal, put in charge of developing a huge database that would track everything United States citizens do electronically -- the things we buy, the web sites we click on, the Internet listservs we participate in, the e-mails we send -- so that any variations from the norm will be able to be red-flagged, noted, pursued. *Harpers Weekly* had this comment: --- In response to a question about Iran-Contra star John Poindexter and his Total Information Awareness project, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had the following to say: "And then there was the office of strategic influence. You may recall that. And 'oh my goodness gracious isn't that terrible, Henny Penny the sky is going to fall.' I went down that next day and said fine, if you want to savage this thing, fine I'll give you the corpse. There's the name. You can have the name, but I'm gonna keep doing every single thing that needs to be done and I have. What was intended to be done by that office is being done by that office, NOT by that office in other ways." The arrogance that only a 65% approval rating can buy. As I said on another poetics listserv recently, every day it gets a little worse, a little more terrifying. Has anyone seen the report on the Wellstone plane crash? I haven't either . . . Comes now the plaintive cry: what does this have to do with *poetics*? What does this have to do with *poetry*? I welcome the prose statements we've seen recently against the forthcoming hostilities with Iraq, and welcome also Nick Piombino's reflections on bullies. But all this is "talking about" -- isn't it? Where is the political art? Where are the imaginative acts of literature that can somehow reflect the astonishing turn our history has taken in the last few years, a turn that threatens to lead us away from everything we thought "democracy" meant? A while back on his blog, Ron Silliman said that he was instantly suspicious of any poem having a programmatic meaning, a sentiment that many will agree with. Indeed, abstract and apolitical lyrics flood this listserv, from Virginia to, well, a rose is a rose. They of course have the assurance that they won't ever be flagged by TIA monitors. I can only speak personally, of course, but I don't think I agree with Ron at all about this one point. We all know examples of clumsy propaganda (although when it's done well, as in much of Jack Hirshman's and Amiri Baraka's work, even propaganda has its artistic uses), but what I'm suspicious of these days is art that's apolitical. I'm looking for imaginative art that can incorporate some response to -- and even provide a chronicle of -- this recent chain of terrifying events. I feel that the poets alive today will eventually be seen as among the most shameful practitioners of the art if we don't produce such work. I plan to post my efforts along these lines and hope others will too. Joe Safdie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:52:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Tday chaw MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I don't know about the rest of you (who may not get this until Monday) but I'm looking forward to having a good chaw over the implications and ironies of the announcement that Dr. K was appointed by a Republican administration to oversee an investigation into LAPSE IN INTELLIGENCE preceeding 9/11. Among other things I'm tempted to ask in light of recent posts here referring to Vietnam is whether his purview includes intelligence lapses from 1955 to 1980? these clearly (as far as i can see) happened pre 9/11? tom bell &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&cetera: Poetry at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/publicat.html Gallery - Metaphor/Metonym for Health at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/metaphor/metapho.htm Health articles at http://psychology.healingwell.com/ Reviews at http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/lifedesigns/reviews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:51:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Kyger/Meltzer/Ballard/Sigo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" JOANNE KYGER * DAVID MELTZER with Cedar Sigo and Micah Ballard A reading Friday, December 6th 7:30 PM / 766 Valencia St. San Francisco The New College FREE ...free this way to heaven free... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:21:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Whyte Subject: Re: Total Information Awareness: Poetry as Chronicle In-Reply-To: <9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8E08CF55@luxor.lwtc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I agree with the desire here. But I'd say be careful to brand the stuff that doesn't seem to have a political content. The divisions become poisonous. Politics works in other ways according to individuals' commitments and abilities. My translations of troubadour poetry (easy example) might be seen as decadent, in these dark times, but my own political activities and commitments aren't self-evident in them. Ryan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:25:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Whyte Subject: Re: Total Information Awareness: Poetry as Chronicle In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 2nd sentence: "be careful _not_ to" etc... Ryan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:25:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: chi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII (title) raison d'etre (2) reeling around roundelay rondure labor ordinal ergodic charm school ground drive derive frantic issue jubilant? inquest civilize(d) discourse course reader derby (urbane?) beauty teacher burlingame witness stir you'll owe more (than you can) scrape together (3) low wattage what a german mine forever sleep pressed rest cure coeur brise (broken heart) ease in celebration odometer to err is human human image imaginary recede upsy daisy evolution lutefisk shellack subordinate natural namby (pamby) easement to detente tantalize i saw you eureka terrific chosen theme a direct octagon gone awry writhing arriving late again gin and tonic intoxicated dreamy makeshift tearaway volingrad(?) evil noblesse oblige totality literal <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:47:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: A thanksgiving feast poem Comments: To: ImitaPo Memebers , "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Happy Thanksgiving=20 You are invited to a special dinner hosted at=20 http://www.whitepine.org/cb_dinner/index.htm This poem is to celebrate our web communities, I am thankful for you, my = poetry friends :-) Thanks for being t/here. Best, Geoffrey=20 Geoffrey Gatza editor BlazeVOX2k2 __o _`\<,_ (*) / (*) Geoffrey Gatza Automation Corp http://BlazeVOX.da.ru=20 http://gatza.da.ru=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:17:13 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen. You should expand on this with the dry approach and try to get it published it could lead into some very interesting Satire a la Swift, and more contemporary writers: I dont know all of them but I believe Hunter S Thompson is good, and there must be some good stuff around (for ideas if you need them): if it doesnt "change things" such statire is at least very entertaining: and it makes it harder to take Bush and his friends very seriously...if you maybe bring in some extra component of some sort of zany "story" ... you might want to trace the problem to Pepsi Cola or Ron's Blogg or G Bowerings Hat or what ever: but I enjoyed this one. If it was published you might even get payed though! And then you might get included in Harold Blooms' "CANON" ...but that trerrible fate aside, it has great possibilities...you could steal some ideas from George Bowering or others on this list...you might insert Amiri Baraka in there somewhere...I suggest Harry Nudel as the Crusty Right Wing Book Seller with a heart of gold (except its radioactive!) and so on...I and some of the "Lefties " could be the mad paranoids (or models for and so on)...Of course the Mafia would need to be in ...or is that too obvious? following Burroughs you could "cut in" some of say...Barret Watten's theoretical writings and get Bush to say them in a speech. Some of Allen Sondheim's work could be an "Official Report"...but its your novel...Regards, Richard Taylor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:40 PM Subject: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > Albert Moon > > Las Vegas, Nevada (NDP) -- U.N. weapons inspectors preparing for their first > day of work in the United States say they will "freeze" the buildings they > enter to prevent any evidence being smuggled out. > > Inspectors are preparing to use state-of-the-art equipment when they begin > their search for alleged weapons of mass destruction on Wednesday. > > Inspectors believe Pentagon officials may smuggle documents or evidence out > as inspectors go into nuclear test sites, offices and factories and say they > will now prevent anyone moving in or out of the buildings. > > The 17 inspectors include 11 from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and > Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), who will focus on chemical and biological > weapons, and 6 from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) who will > investigate any nuclear weapons capability. > > Demetrius Perricos, head of the atomic team, told reporters Tuesday that > state-of-the art equipment was necessary "because the eyes can fool > anybody." > > "You can enter a room which is empty, but that room might have a history and > only if you are taking samples or doing some measurements you can find out > that the room is not as empty as you thought it was," he said. > > Inspectors have showed reporters some of the high-tech equipment they will > use -- including devices that allow for rapid detection of the presence of > chemical, biological, or nuclear substances that may indicate a facility has > been used for developing weapons capability. > > Inspectors will take air samples and "swipes" of objects within a site, as > well as other types of samples, and examine them for things such as > radioactive isotopes. They will also seal up some objects. > > Information will be sent immediately to laboratories in Moscow and Vienna. > > Information collected from the inspections will be cross-referenced against > files showing what substances should be present given the site's official > purpose. > > "Technology of today is having much progress in terms of what it provides > for a rapid detection of biological or chemical substances," Perricos said. > > Pointing to the relatively small size of the detection devices, he said: > "Thank God they made it portable and not just transportable." > > Perricos was asked whether the arms monitors would be looking for suspected > mobile biological weapons laboratories in trailers identified previously as > houses of prostitution. "We have some plans," he said. > > Perricos said ground-penetrating radar would be used to locate possible > buried storage or production sites. > > Jacques Baute, head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection > Committee (UNMOVIC) said: "We are fully conscious of the responsibility we > have on our shoulders. > > "We have an access anywhere and access anywhere is translated into > inspections to any type of facilities. > > "Anytime is one of the key parameters regarding the credibility of the > conclusions, and another translation is immediate access. > > "If we have access immediately to a site the credibility of our conclusion > if we find nothing there is far higher than if there is any notice, even of > one or two hours." > > Under the terms of Resolution 1441, passed this month, Washington must > provide a list of their weapons of mass destruction to the Security Council > by December 8. > > The United States has vowed to meet the deadline and has said inspectors > will be given complete access to all sites. > > The U.N. inspectors are to report to the Security Council by late January on > their initial round of inspections, including whether the Americans have > been fully cooperative. > > The United States has assailed the resolution and called it a result of the > desire of the members of the United Nations to eliminate its right to bear > nuclear arms in support of regional enforcement of international oil and > trade agreements. > > Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter rejected Washington's > claims. > > "Washinton has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons > program," he told CNN's Bagdad Morning with Paula Zahn. > > Butler said the United States has a history of lying to the U.N. "This is a > long- standing American approach, but they can't take that approach this > time," he said. > > "This current resolution of the Security Council is black and white, it > makes very clear, you will tell the truth or else, and I hope they get > that." > > Meanwhile, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr said the United Nations > Navy will have four aircraft carriers within striking distance of the United > States at some point in mid-December -- but U.N. military officials have > emphasized they have no reason to believe the congregation of warships could > mark the beginning of any attack on the United States. The assembling of > such a large number of carriers is said to be an accident of a global > preservation and deployment schedule and the overlap should only exist for a > few days. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:29:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: moron Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hey, has the news about the Prime Minister's aide calling Bush a "moron" got much press down there? A guy from Bellingham said that what burned his ass was being required to call that moron a president. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:14:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas In-Reply-To: <004b01c2967b$e27d4700$989837d2@01397384> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks, Richard. Actually my piece - with the exception of Iraq becoming Nevada (a state that is half owned by the US Military, home of nuclear and every other kind of warhead test) is lifted straight from a CNN article on Iraq inspections. I was tempted to turn the Inspectors into Poets and expand the sites to include Casinos as possible sites to launder money from covert nuclear sales to rogue states. And, of course, the dark comic possibilities of the military hiding bombs and biological weapons in highway side trailer bordellos. Sometimes - cut up or turned up side down - the language of the media is more than enough. I suspect like many I am feeling - petitions non-withstanding - scared and more than a little paralyzed by the momentum of the push to war to occupy the Middle East - point blank - for oil. Not a good - some might say, dangerously stupid - cast of cards. Without strong opposition, I am afraid we are going to be reeling for years. Stephen Vincent on 11/27/02 5:17 PM, richard.tylr at richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ wrote: > Stephen. You should expand on this with the dry approach and try to get it > published it could lead into some very interesting Satire a la Swift, and > more contemporary writers: I dont know all of them but I believe Hunter S > Thompson is good, and there must be some good stuff around (for ideas if you > need them): if it doesnt "change things" such statire is at least very > entertaining: and it makes it harder to take Bush and his friends very > seriously...if you maybe bring in some extra component of some sort of zany > "story" ... you might want to trace the problem to Pepsi Cola or Ron's > Blogg or G Bowerings Hat or what ever: but I enjoyed this one. If it was > published you might even get payed though! And then you might get included > in Harold Blooms' "CANON" ...but that trerrible fate aside, it has great > possibilities...you could steal some ideas from George Bowering or others on > this list...you might insert Amiri Baraka in there somewhere...I suggest > Harry Nudel as the Crusty Right Wing Book Seller with a heart of gold > (except its radioactive!) and so on...I and some of the "Lefties " could be > the mad paranoids (or models for and so on)...Of course the Mafia would need > to be in ...or is that too obvious? following Burroughs you could "cut in" > some of say...Barret Watten's theoretical writings and get Bush to say them > in a speech. Some of Allen Sondheim's work could be an "Official > Report"...but its your novel...Regards, Richard Taylor. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Vincent" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:40 PM > Subject: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > > >> Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas >> Albert Moon >> >> Las Vegas, Nevada (NDP) -- U.N. weapons inspectors preparing for their > first >> day of work in the United States say they will "freeze" the buildings they >> enter to prevent any evidence being smuggled out. >> >> Inspectors are preparing to use state-of-the-art equipment when they begin >> their search for alleged weapons of mass destruction on Wednesday. >> >> Inspectors believe Pentagon officials may smuggle documents or evidence > out >> as inspectors go into nuclear test sites, offices and factories and say > they >> will now prevent anyone moving in or out of the buildings. >> >> The 17 inspectors include 11 from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and >> Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), who will focus on chemical and biological >> weapons, and 6 from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) who will >> investigate any nuclear weapons capability. >> >> Demetrius Perricos, head of the atomic team, told reporters Tuesday that >> state-of-the art equipment was necessary "because the eyes can fool >> anybody." >> >> "You can enter a room which is empty, but that room might have a history > and >> only if you are taking samples or doing some measurements you can find out >> that the room is not as empty as you thought it was," he said. >> >> Inspectors have showed reporters some of the high-tech equipment they will >> use -- including devices that allow for rapid detection of the presence of >> chemical, biological, or nuclear substances that may indicate a facility > has >> been used for developing weapons capability. >> >> Inspectors will take air samples and "swipes" of objects within a site, as >> well as other types of samples, and examine them for things such as >> radioactive isotopes. They will also seal up some objects. >> >> Information will be sent immediately to laboratories in Moscow and Vienna. >> >> Information collected from the inspections will be cross-referenced > against >> files showing what substances should be present given the site's official >> purpose. >> >> "Technology of today is having much progress in terms of what it provides >> for a rapid detection of biological or chemical substances," Perricos > said. >> >> Pointing to the relatively small size of the detection devices, he said: >> "Thank God they made it portable and not just transportable." >> >> Perricos was asked whether the arms monitors would be looking for > suspected >> mobile biological weapons laboratories in trailers identified previously > as >> houses of prostitution. "We have some plans," he said. >> >> Perricos said ground-penetrating radar would be used to locate possible >> buried storage or production sites. >> >> Jacques Baute, head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection >> Committee (UNMOVIC) said: "We are fully conscious of the responsibility we >> have on our shoulders. >> >> "We have an access anywhere and access anywhere is translated into >> inspections to any type of facilities. >> >> "Anytime is one of the key parameters regarding the credibility of the >> conclusions, and another translation is immediate access. >> >> "If we have access immediately to a site the credibility of our conclusion >> if we find nothing there is far higher than if there is any notice, even > of >> one or two hours." >> >> Under the terms of Resolution 1441, passed this month, Washington must >> provide a list of their weapons of mass destruction to the Security > Council >> by December 8. >> >> The United States has vowed to meet the deadline and has said inspectors >> will be given complete access to all sites. >> >> The U.N. inspectors are to report to the Security Council by late January > on >> their initial round of inspections, including whether the Americans have >> been fully cooperative. >> >> The United States has assailed the resolution and called it a result of > the >> desire of the members of the United Nations to eliminate its right to bear >> nuclear arms in support of regional enforcement of international oil and >> trade agreements. >> >> Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter rejected Washington's >> claims. >> >> "Washinton has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons >> program," he told CNN's Bagdad Morning with Paula Zahn. >> >> Butler said the United States has a history of lying to the U.N. "This is > a >> long- standing American approach, but they can't take that approach this >> time," he said. >> >> "This current resolution of the Security Council is black and white, it >> makes very clear, you will tell the truth or else, and I hope they get >> that." >> >> Meanwhile, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr said the United > Nations >> Navy will have four aircraft carriers within striking distance of the > United >> States at some point in mid-December -- but U.N. military officials have >> emphasized they have no reason to believe the congregation of warships > could >> mark the beginning of any attack on the United States. The assembling of >> such a large number of carriers is said to be an accident of a global >> preservation and deployment schedule and the overlap should only exist for > a >> few days. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:51:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Lest we forget Comments: To: goodeea@sunysuffolk.edu, chax@theriver.com, cqw6841@nyu.edu, dantin@ucsd.edu, soaring2002@attbi.com, djmess@CINENET.NET, obispa@mindspring.com, geconomou@earthlink.net, gm@gregorymcnamee.com, hpolkinh@mail.sdsu.edu, jasonweiss@mindspring.com, jrothenberg@cox.net, joanlind@adnc.com, edit@jacketmagazine.com, JoseKozer@aol.com, eherenmank@hotmail.com, perloff@leland.stanford.edu, Mark_Schafer@hmco.com, mh7@is2.nyu.edu, mscharf@reedbusiness.com, abriel@well.com, ntarn@earthlink.net, norieclarke@earthlink.net, nazul@aol.com, joris@CSC.ALBANY.EDU, sgavronsky@barnard.edu, Steph484@pacbell.net, spm44@aol.com, sn08levi@humanitas.ucsb.edu, tlmolinero@cs.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dinde and drumsticks on Merci Donnant day By Art Buchwald (IHT) Thursday, November 28, 2002 If France had not voted with us in=20 the United Nations on how we want to deal with Iraq, I was going to refuse to= =20 reprint this column. Despite many attempts to bring it up to date, the text=20 remains the same as it first appeared in the Plymouth Gazette in 1620. One of the most important holidays=20 is Thanksgiving Day, known in France as le Jour de Merci Donnant. Le Jour de Merci Donnant was started= =20 by a group of pilgrims (P=E8lerins) who fled from l'Angleterre before the=20 McCarran Act to found a colony in the New World (le Nouveau Monde) where they= =20 could shoot Indians (les Peaux-Rouges) and eat turkey (dinde)= =20 to their hearts' content. They landed at a place called Plymouth (now a=20 famous voiture Americaine) in a wooden sailing ship named the Mayflower, or= =20 Fleur de Mai, in 1620. But while the P=E8lerins were killing the dindes,= =20 the Peaux-Rouges were killing the P=E8lerins, and there were several hard winters= =20 ahead for both of them. The only way the Peaux- Rouges=20 helped the P=E8lerins was when they taught them how to grow corn (mais). The=20 reason they did this was because they liked corn with their P=E8lerins. In 1623, after another harsh year,=20 the P=E8lerins' crops were so good that they decided to have a celebration and=20 give thanks because more mais was raised by the P=E8lerins than P=E8lerins= were=20 killed by the Peaux-Rouges. Every year on le Jour de Merci=20 Donnant, parents tell their children an amusing story about the first celebration. It concerns a brave capitaine named= =20 Miles Standish (known in France as Kilom=E8tres Deboutish) and a shy=20 young lieutenant named Jean Alden. Both of them were in love with a flower of=20 Plymouth named Priscilla Mullens (no translation). The vieux capitaine=20 said to the jeune lieutenant: "Go to the damsel Priscilla (Allez=20 tr=E8s vite chez Priscilla), the loveliest maiden of Plymouth (la plus jolie=20 demoiselle de Plymouth). Say that a blunt old captain, a man not of words but of=20 action (un vieux Fanfan la Tulipe), offers his hand and his heart - the hand and=20 heart of a soldier. Not in these words, you understand, but this, in short, is=20 my meaning. "I am a maker of war (Je suis un=20 fabricant de la guerre) and not a maker of phrases. You, bred as a scholar=20 (Vous, qui =EAtes pain comme un =E9tudiant), can say it in elegant language, such= =20 as you read in your books of the pleadings and wooings of lovers,=20 such as you think best suited to win the heart of the maiden." Although Jean was fit to be tied=20 (convenable =E0 =EAtre emball=E9), friendship prevailed over love and he went to=20 his duty. But instead of using elegant language, he blurted out his=20 mission. Priscilla was muted with amazement and sorrow (rendue muette par=20 l'=E9tonnement et la tristesse). At length she exclaimed, breaking=20 the ominous silence, "If the great captain of Plymouth is so very eager to wed me,= =20 why does he not come himself and take the trouble to woo me?" (Ou=20 est-il, le vieux Kilom=E8tres? Pourquoi ne vient-il pas aupr=E8s de moi pour=20 tenter sa chance?) Jean said that Kilom=E8tres Deboutish= =20 was very busy and didn't have time for such things. He staggered on,=20 telling her what a wonderful husband Kilom=E8tres would make. Finally, Priscilla arched her=20 eyebrows and said in a tremulous voice, "Why don't you speak for yourself, Jean?"= =20 (Chacun =E0 son gout.) And so, on the fourth Thursday in=20 November, American families sit down at a large table brimming with tasty=20 dishes and for the only time during the year eat better than the French do. No one can deny that le Jour de=20 Merci Donnantis a grande f=EAte, and no matter how well fed American families are,= =20 they never forget to give thanks to Kilom=E8tres Deboutish, who made this= =20 great day possible. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:03:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i am stuck in my body. i am stuck in my mind. i am stuck in my body. i am stuck in my mind. nothing can help this self. you would not know this self. this self is a stupid dirty thing. you would not talk to it unless you were told to talk to it. then you would say. hello self. i understand you are brilliant and very clever. you would be under the burning eyes of this self. you would be stuck in talking. this self would make you a friend. you would be stuck in friend. you would know self. === ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:09:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed check out http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/ At 06:14 PM 11/27/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Thanks, Richard. Actually my piece - with the exception of Iraq becoming >Nevada (a state that is half owned by the US Military, home of nuclear and >every other kind of warhead test) is lifted straight from a CNN article on >Iraq inspections. >I was tempted to turn the Inspectors into Poets and expand the sites to >include Casinos >as possible sites to launder money from covert nuclear sales to rogue >states. And, of course, the dark comic possibilities of the military hiding >bombs and biological weapons in highway side trailer bordellos. > >Sometimes - cut up or turned up side down - the language of the media is >more than enough. > >I suspect like many I am feeling - petitions non-withstanding - scared and >more than a little paralyzed by the momentum of the push to war to occupy >the Middle East - point blank - for oil. Not a good - some might say, >dangerously stupid - cast of cards. Without strong opposition, I am afraid >we are going to be reeling for years. > >Stephen Vincent > >on 11/27/02 5:17 PM, richard.tylr at richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ wrote: > > > Stephen. You should expand on this with the dry approach and try to get it > > published it could lead into some very interesting Satire a la Swift, and > > more contemporary writers: I dont know all of them but I believe Hunter S > > Thompson is good, and there must be some good stuff around (for ideas > if you > > need them): if it doesnt "change things" such statire is at least very > > entertaining: and it makes it harder to take Bush and his friends very > > seriously...if you maybe bring in some extra component of some sort of zany > > "story" ... you might want to trace the problem to Pepsi Cola or Ron's > > Blogg or G Bowerings Hat or what ever: but I enjoyed this one. If it was > > published you might even get payed though! And then you might get included > > in Harold Blooms' "CANON" ...but that trerrible fate aside, it has great > > possibilities...you could steal some ideas from George Bowering or > others on > > this list...you might insert Amiri Baraka in there somewhere...I suggest > > Harry Nudel as the Crusty Right Wing Book Seller with a heart of gold > > (except its radioactive!) and so on...I and some of the "Lefties " could be > > the mad paranoids (or models for and so on)...Of course the Mafia would > need > > to be in ...or is that too obvious? following Burroughs you could "cut in" > > some of say...Barret Watten's theoretical writings and get Bush to say them > > in a speech. Some of Allen Sondheim's work could be an "Official > > Report"...but its your novel...Regards, Richard Taylor. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen Vincent" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:40 PM > > Subject: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > > > > > >> Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > >> Albert Moon > >> > >> Las Vegas, Nevada (NDP) -- U.N. weapons inspectors preparing for their > > first > >> day of work in the United States say they will "freeze" the buildings they > >> enter to prevent any evidence being smuggled out. > >> > >> Inspectors are preparing to use state-of-the-art equipment when they begin > >> their search for alleged weapons of mass destruction on Wednesday. > >> > >> Inspectors believe Pentagon officials may smuggle documents or evidence > > out > >> as inspectors go into nuclear test sites, offices and factories and say > > they > >> will now prevent anyone moving in or out of the buildings. > >> > >> The 17 inspectors include 11 from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and > >> Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), who will focus on chemical and biological > >> weapons, and 6 from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) who will > >> investigate any nuclear weapons capability. > >> > >> Demetrius Perricos, head of the atomic team, told reporters Tuesday that > >> state-of-the art equipment was necessary "because the eyes can fool > >> anybody." > >> > >> "You can enter a room which is empty, but that room might have a history > > and > >> only if you are taking samples or doing some measurements you can find out > >> that the room is not as empty as you thought it was," he said. > >> > >> Inspectors have showed reporters some of the high-tech equipment they will > >> use -- including devices that allow for rapid detection of the presence of > >> chemical, biological, or nuclear substances that may indicate a facility > > has > >> been used for developing weapons capability. > >> > >> Inspectors will take air samples and "swipes" of objects within a site, as > >> well as other types of samples, and examine them for things such as > >> radioactive isotopes. They will also seal up some objects. > >> > >> Information will be sent immediately to laboratories in Moscow and Vienna. > >> > >> Information collected from the inspections will be cross-referenced > > against > >> files showing what substances should be present given the site's official > >> purpose. > >> > >> "Technology of today is having much progress in terms of what it provides > >> for a rapid detection of biological or chemical substances," Perricos > > said. > >> > >> Pointing to the relatively small size of the detection devices, he said: > >> "Thank God they made it portable and not just transportable." > >> > >> Perricos was asked whether the arms monitors would be looking for > > suspected > >> mobile biological weapons laboratories in trailers identified previously > > as > >> houses of prostitution. "We have some plans," he said. > >> > >> Perricos said ground-penetrating radar would be used to locate possible > >> buried storage or production sites. > >> > >> Jacques Baute, head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection > >> Committee (UNMOVIC) said: "We are fully conscious of the responsibility we > >> have on our shoulders. > >> > >> "We have an access anywhere and access anywhere is translated into > >> inspections to any type of facilities. > >> > >> "Anytime is one of the key parameters regarding the credibility of the > >> conclusions, and another translation is immediate access. > >> > >> "If we have access immediately to a site the credibility of our conclusion > >> if we find nothing there is far higher than if there is any notice, even > > of > >> one or two hours." > >> > >> Under the terms of Resolution 1441, passed this month, Washington must > >> provide a list of their weapons of mass destruction to the Security > > Council > >> by December 8. > >> > >> The United States has vowed to meet the deadline and has said inspectors > >> will be given complete access to all sites. > >> > >> The U.N. inspectors are to report to the Security Council by late January > > on > >> their initial round of inspections, including whether the Americans have > >> been fully cooperative. > >> > >> The United States has assailed the resolution and called it a result of > > the > >> desire of the members of the United Nations to eliminate its right to bear > >> nuclear arms in support of regional enforcement of international oil and > >> trade agreements. > >> > >> Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter rejected Washington's > >> claims. > >> > >> "Washinton has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons > >> program," he told CNN's Bagdad Morning with Paula Zahn. > >> > >> Butler said the United States has a history of lying to the U.N. "This is > > a > >> long- standing American approach, but they can't take that approach this > >> time," he said. > >> > >> "This current resolution of the Security Council is black and white, it > >> makes very clear, you will tell the truth or else, and I hope they get > >> that." > >> > >> Meanwhile, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr said the United > > Nations > >> Navy will have four aircraft carriers within striking distance of the > > United > >> States at some point in mid-December -- but U.N. military officials have > >> emphasized they have no reason to believe the congregation of warships > > could > >> mark the beginning of any attack on the United States. The assembling of > >> such a large number of carriers is said to be an accident of a global > >> preservation and deployment schedule and the overlap should only exist for > > a > >> few days. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:26:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Re: Steal Something Day: November 24, 2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My apologies to the Buffalo List. I circulated an announcement a few days ago regarding Steal Something Day. The date was incorrect. Please note that it is planned for November 29, 2002 not November 24, 2002. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Aaron Vidaver Vancouver, Coast Salish Territory "If new systems of income distribution continue to permit the professional bureaucracies to choose when to give and when to withhold financial relief, the poor will once again be surrendered to an arrangement in which their rights are diminished in the name of overcoming their vices. Those who lead an attack on the welfare system must therefore be alert to pitfalls of inadequate but placating reforms which give the appearance of victory to what is in truth defeat." - Richard A. Cloward & Frances Fox Piven (1966) Steal Something Day November 24, 2002 Participate by participating! A shameless 24-hour stealing spree! For the past nine years, a few self-described "culture jammers" from Adbusters Magazine have dubbed the last Friday in November "Buy Nothing Day." From their stylish home base in Vancouver's upscale suburb of Kitsilano, the Adbusters' brain trust has encouraged conscientious citizens worldwide to "relish [their] power as a consumer to change the economic environment." In their words, Buy Nothing Day "[p]roves how empowering it is to step out of the consumption stream for even a day." The geniuses at Adbusters have managed to create the perfect feel-good, liberal, middle-class activist non-happening. A day when the more money you make, the more influence you have (like every other day). A day which, by definition, is insulting to the millions of people worldwide who are too poor or marginalized to be considered "consumers." It's supposed to be a 24-hour moratorium on spending, but ends up being a moralistic false-debate about whether or not you should really buy that loaf of bread today or ... wait for it ... tomorrow! Well, this year, while the Adbusters cult enjoys yet another Buy Nothing Day, accompanied by their fancy posters, stickers, TV and radio advertisements and slick webpages, a few self-described anarcho-situationists from Montreal's East End are inaugurating Steal Something Day. Unlike Buy Nothing Day, when people are asked to "participate by not participating," Steal Something Day demands that we "participate by participating." Instead of downplaying or ignoring the capitalists, CEOs, landlords, small business tyrants, bosses, PR hacks, yuppies, media lapdogs, corporate bureaucrats, politicians and cops who are primarily responsible for misery and exploitation in this world, Steal Something Day demands that we steal from them, without discrimination. The Adbusters' intellegentsia tell us that they're neither "left nor right," and have proclaimed a non-ideological crusade against overconsumption. Steal Something Day, on the other hand, identifies with the historic and contemporary resistance against the causes of capitalist exploitation, not its symptoms. If you think overconsumption is scary, wait until you hear about capitalism and imperialism. Unlike the misplaced Buy Nothing Day notion of consumer empowerment, Steal Something Day promotes empowerment by urging us to collectively identify the greedy bastards who are actually responsible for promoting misery and boredom in this world. Instead of ignoring them, Steal Something Day encourages us to make their lives as uncomfortable as possible. As we like to say in Montreal: dranger les riches dans leurs niches! And remember, we're talking about stealing, not theft. Stealing is just. Theft is exploitative. Stealing is when you take a yuppie's BMW for a joyride, and crash into a parked Mercedes just for the hell of it. Theft is when you take candy from a baby's mouth. Stealing is the re-distribution of wealth from rich to poor Theft is making profits at the expense of the disadvantaged and the natural environment. Stealing is an unwritten a tax on the rich. Theft is taxing the poor to subsidize the rich. Stealing is nothing more than a tax on the rich. There is solidarity in stealing, but property is nothing but theft. So, don't pay for that corporate newspaper, but steal all of them from the box. Get some friends together and go on a "shoplifting" spree at the local chain supermarket or upscale mall. With an even larger mob, get together and steal from the local chain book or record store. Pilfer purses and wallets from easily identified yuppies and business persons. Skip out on rent. Get a credit card under a fake name and don't pay. Keep what you can use, and give away everything else in the spirit of mutual aid that is the hallmark of Steal Something Day. Download our detourned poster http://adbusters.tao.ca, make copies and stick it up wherever you can. And don't forget, send your scamming and stealing tips to us at lombrenoire@tao.ca. See you next Steal Something Day which, unlike Buy Nothing Day, happens every day of the year. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:09:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Fw: Total Information Awareness: Poetry as Chronicle MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > this is somewhat along the lines of investigative poetry > http://www.metaphormetonym.com/invest.htm but I'm tempted at the moment of > abandoning that effort as these days people seem intent on investigative > poems in themselves if Dr. K has any awareness of the statement he is > turning himself into (or out of)? > > tom bell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Safdie Joseph" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:19 PM > Subject: Total Information Awareness: Poetry as Chronicle > > > > Last night on the local news I saw a three-minute piece on Total > Information > > Awareness, the project being led by Admiral John Poindexter. As with so > many > > things that are happening in this lame duck century, it was reported > > straight, without inflection or innuendo, not even a raised eyebrow. It > was > > just, "This is a new program of our government" with a few talking heads > > explaining its benefits and -- a bit more vaguely -- its threats to a > > democratic republic. Next, sports. > > > > (It later struck me that TIA was being presented *exactly* like the > > government recruitment ads in the movie *Starship Troopers* . . . which I > > seem to remember Jordan Davis liking). > > > > Such a phenomenon is a staple of Tom Tomorrow cartoons, of course, and I > > appreciated Kevin providing the latest example today; other list members > > have also mentioned TIA in satirical asides. But no matter how surreal > > things get (and Henry Kissinger chairing the September 11 investigative > > committee, a war criminal judging a potential war crime, is pretty > surreal), > > this particular story still has me shaking my head: Admiral Poindexter, a > > convicted felon in the Iran-Contra scandal, put in charge of developing a > > huge database that would track everything United States citizens do > > electronically -- the things we buy, the web sites we click on, the > Internet > > listservs we participate in, the e-mails we send -- so that any variations > > from the norm will be able to be red-flagged, noted, pursued. > > > > *Harpers Weekly* had this comment: > > > > --- In response to a question about Iran-Contra star John Poindexter and > his > > Total Information Awareness project, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld > > had the following to say: "And then there was the office of strategic > > influence. You may recall that. And 'oh my goodness gracious isn't that > > terrible, Henny Penny the sky is going to fall.' I went down that next day > > and said fine, if you want to savage this thing, fine I'll give you the > > corpse. There's the name. You can have the name, but I'm gonna keep doing > > every single thing that needs to be done and I have. What was intended to > be > > done by that office is being done by that office, NOT by that office in > > other ways." > > > > The arrogance that only a 65% approval rating can buy. As I said on > another > > poetics listserv recently, every day it gets a little worse, a little more > > terrifying. Has anyone seen the report on the Wellstone plane crash? I > > haven't either . . . > > > > Comes now the plaintive cry: what does this have to do with *poetics*? > What > > does this have to do with *poetry*? > > > > I welcome the prose statements we've seen recently against the forthcoming > > hostilities with Iraq, and welcome also Nick Piombino's reflections on > > bullies. But all this is "talking about" -- isn't it? Where is the > political > > art? Where are the imaginative acts of literature that can somehow reflect > > the astonishing turn our history has taken in the last few years, a turn > > that threatens to lead us away from everything we thought "democracy" > meant? > > > > A while back on his blog, Ron Silliman said that he was instantly > suspicious > > of any poem having a programmatic meaning, a sentiment that many will > agree > > with. Indeed, abstract and apolitical lyrics flood this listserv, from > > Virginia to, well, a rose is a rose. They of course have the assurance > that > > they won't ever be flagged by TIA monitors. > > > > I can only speak personally, of course, but I don't think I agree with Ron > > at all about this one point. We all know examples of clumsy propaganda > > (although when it's done well, as in much of Jack Hirshman's and Amiri > > Baraka's work, even propaganda has its artistic uses), but what I'm > > suspicious of these days is art that's apolitical. I'm looking for > > imaginative art that can incorporate some response to -- and even provide > a > > chronicle of -- this recent chain of terrifying events. I feel that the > > poets alive today will eventually be seen as among the most shameful > > practitioners of the art if we don't produce such work. I plan to post my > > efforts along these lines and hope others will too. > > > > Joe Safdie > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:21:27 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But the penis mightier than the sword and they have Goerge Bowering and others to reckon with like this bloke who made a fil (>) (advert?) with Bush putting a video in a toaster!! ha ha !! The whole thing is stupid. Mind you they thought Hitler was a clown. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 3:14 PM Subject: Re: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > Thanks, Richard. Actually my piece - with the exception of Iraq becoming > Nevada (a state that is half owned by the US Military, home of nuclear and > every other kind of warhead test) is lifted straight from a CNN article on > Iraq inspections. > I was tempted to turn the Inspectors into Poets and expand the sites to > include Casinos > as possible sites to launder money from covert nuclear sales to rogue > states. And, of course, the dark comic possibilities of the military hiding > bombs and biological weapons in highway side trailer bordellos. > > Sometimes - cut up or turned up side down - the language of the media is > more than enough. > > I suspect like many I am feeling - petitions non-withstanding - scared and > more than a little paralyzed by the momentum of the push to war to occupy > the Middle East - point blank - for oil. Not a good - some might say, > dangerously stupid - cast of cards. Without strong opposition, I am afraid > we are going to be reeling for years. > > Stephen Vincent > > on 11/27/02 5:17 PM, richard.tylr at richard.tylr@XTRA.CO.NZ wrote: > > > Stephen. You should expand on this with the dry approach and try to get it > > published it could lead into some very interesting Satire a la Swift, and > > more contemporary writers: I dont know all of them but I believe Hunter S > > Thompson is good, and there must be some good stuff around (for ideas if you > > need them): if it doesnt "change things" such statire is at least very > > entertaining: and it makes it harder to take Bush and his friends very > > seriously...if you maybe bring in some extra component of some sort of zany > > "story" ... you might want to trace the problem to Pepsi Cola or Ron's > > Blogg or G Bowerings Hat or what ever: but I enjoyed this one. If it was > > published you might even get payed though! And then you might get included > > in Harold Blooms' "CANON" ...but that trerrible fate aside, it has great > > possibilities...you could steal some ideas from George Bowering or others on > > this list...you might insert Amiri Baraka in there somewhere...I suggest > > Harry Nudel as the Crusty Right Wing Book Seller with a heart of gold > > (except its radioactive!) and so on...I and some of the "Lefties " could be > > the mad paranoids (or models for and so on)...Of course the Mafia would need > > to be in ...or is that too obvious? following Burroughs you could "cut in" > > some of say...Barret Watten's theoretical writings and get Bush to say them > > in a speech. Some of Allen Sondheim's work could be an "Official > > Report"...but its your novel...Regards, Richard Taylor. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen Vincent" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:40 PM > > Subject: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > > > > > >> Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > >> Albert Moon > >> > >> Las Vegas, Nevada (NDP) -- U.N. weapons inspectors preparing for their > > first > >> day of work in the United States say they will "freeze" the buildings they > >> enter to prevent any evidence being smuggled out. > >> > >> Inspectors are preparing to use state-of-the-art equipment when they begin > >> their search for alleged weapons of mass destruction on Wednesday. > >> > >> Inspectors believe Pentagon officials may smuggle documents or evidence > > out > >> as inspectors go into nuclear test sites, offices and factories and say > > they > >> will now prevent anyone moving in or out of the buildings. > >> > >> The 17 inspectors include 11 from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and > >> Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), who will focus on chemical and biological > >> weapons, and 6 from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) who will > >> investigate any nuclear weapons capability. > >> > >> Demetrius Perricos, head of the atomic team, told reporters Tuesday that > >> state-of-the art equipment was necessary "because the eyes can fool > >> anybody." > >> > >> "You can enter a room which is empty, but that room might have a history > > and > >> only if you are taking samples or doing some measurements you can find out > >> that the room is not as empty as you thought it was," he said. > >> > >> Inspectors have showed reporters some of the high-tech equipment they will > >> use -- including devices that allow for rapid detection of the presence of > >> chemical, biological, or nuclear substances that may indicate a facility > > has > >> been used for developing weapons capability. > >> > >> Inspectors will take air samples and "swipes" of objects within a site, as > >> well as other types of samples, and examine them for things such as > >> radioactive isotopes. They will also seal up some objects. > >> > >> Information will be sent immediately to laboratories in Moscow and Vienna. > >> > >> Information collected from the inspections will be cross-referenced > > against > >> files showing what substances should be present given the site's official > >> purpose. > >> > >> "Technology of today is having much progress in terms of what it provides > >> for a rapid detection of biological or chemical substances," Perricos > > said. > >> > >> Pointing to the relatively small size of the detection devices, he said: > >> "Thank God they made it portable and not just transportable." > >> > >> Perricos was asked whether the arms monitors would be looking for > > suspected > >> mobile biological weapons laboratories in trailers identified previously > > as > >> houses of prostitution. "We have some plans," he said. > >> > >> Perricos said ground-penetrating radar would be used to locate possible > >> buried storage or production sites. > >> > >> Jacques Baute, head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection > >> Committee (UNMOVIC) said: "We are fully conscious of the responsibility we > >> have on our shoulders. > >> > >> "We have an access anywhere and access anywhere is translated into > >> inspections to any type of facilities. > >> > >> "Anytime is one of the key parameters regarding the credibility of the > >> conclusions, and another translation is immediate access. > >> > >> "If we have access immediately to a site the credibility of our conclusion > >> if we find nothing there is far higher than if there is any notice, even > > of > >> one or two hours." > >> > >> Under the terms of Resolution 1441, passed this month, Washington must > >> provide a list of their weapons of mass destruction to the Security > > Council > >> by December 8. > >> > >> The United States has vowed to meet the deadline and has said inspectors > >> will be given complete access to all sites. > >> > >> The U.N. inspectors are to report to the Security Council by late January > > on > >> their initial round of inspections, including whether the Americans have > >> been fully cooperative. > >> > >> The United States has assailed the resolution and called it a result of > > the > >> desire of the members of the United Nations to eliminate its right to bear > >> nuclear arms in support of regional enforcement of international oil and > >> trade agreements. > >> > >> Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter rejected Washington's > >> claims. > >> > >> "Washinton has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons > >> program," he told CNN's Bagdad Morning with Paula Zahn. > >> > >> Butler said the United States has a history of lying to the U.N. "This is > > a > >> long- standing American approach, but they can't take that approach this > >> time," he said. > >> > >> "This current resolution of the Security Council is black and white, it > >> makes very clear, you will tell the truth or else, and I hope they get > >> that." > >> > >> Meanwhile, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr said the United > > Nations > >> Navy will have four aircraft carriers within striking distance of the > > United > >> States at some point in mid-December -- but U.N. military officials have > >> emphasized they have no reason to believe the congregation of warships > > could > >> mark the beginning of any attack on the United States. The assembling of > >> such a large number of carriers is said to be an accident of a global > >> preservation and deployment schedule and the overlap should only exist for > > a > >> few days. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 02:44:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: contents: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII contents: s o n t c " S s - S F - t F P t p P d p o d " o s t a l n c a a t n a a a t a a w a t a l w c v v s s t t i i p p r r s s l l a S S l l s s b b m a r a a o a s o o o a s m c r s P P s s a t t i i l l p p c o a f b o w c e a o b l e u l f u c m o a a r m o t a 2 u r 2 v c p l i b h 6 p m o b f p o h c p l f 6 o m e b n t o p r e o a a b s g p p g b p a b s d d a a t t p p r r o t s s l b o l u u T s s T o s w p p p s p p h s o p s a p o o a o e u s s u o r p p a M a t t a s d f f a a l l a a a a o o f f a m f b l a l a n l o d s a a d m s m a p m m m d c a t v t a u 0 0 b i d i o f s s n o a s p v t v a t d a r t ( R a F F F o N N S W A B O 1 n i t c i f c t c t a c r - p a t a c p r - a o m b c i b s s 1 f w 1 c w n s b l f b b f s f a b o w w b h h s s u u d d p a e p j e b i b j i b t r a w a i 3 s i p i 3 r 3 w 3 h w p a m c i f e y l e a 1 t p c l f l t m m e o w t m o t s s l o m s w c r t g r a g t f n a m n c m t h t d t l m t t l o l h h r i m : t l m e w t m o t s o f s c t t r g f a t n m h d n m h l t i l n m t l o h r n m t i sion or negative-imaginary the closest "Neuropteris Stur schlehani - Stur Fond - tripinnate. Fond Primary tripinnate. pinnae, Primary distant pinnae, or distant "Neuropteris or schlehani touching, abruptly large, near contracting apex abruptly to near acute apex angle, to and acute with angle, touching, and large, with contracting very very small, small, terminal, terminal, inequilateral inequilateral pinnule; pinnule; rachis, rachis, striated striated longitudin- longitudinally. ally. Secondary Secondary linear-lanceolate, linear-lanceolate, slightly slightly base base more acute rapidly apex, apex, oblique, alternative, straight openly or oblique, and straight more curved; rachis, striated. Pinnules, Pinnules, subcoriaceous, subcori- aceous, those those in in low low position position curved; on at front, base, oblong, with cordate entire at or base, lobed entire undulate lobed front, undulate cordate margins, open attached angles right more open to angles 2 up right 2 very cm. pinnules long in by higher 6 positions mm. on broad; frond, pinnules oblong higher cm. positions long frond, 6 oblong mm. elliptical, base, normal to oblique pinnules rachis; elliptical, of attached a by secondary greater pinna, part greater becoming part apex becoming secondary decurrent decurrent alethopteroid; alethopteroid; terminal terminal pinnules, pinnules, relatively relatively oblong- triangular, slight slight lobe basal on lobe upper upper The side. short The oblong-triangular, short with pinnae primary primary several pinna pairs, have secondary one pinnae several apex pairs, of ovate and oblong- elliptical until segment small, until ovate replaced pinnules. pinnules. and Mid-vein, alethopteroid thick, to alethopteroid short distance from from apex; apex; laterals, laterals, alethopteroid, alethopteroid, arising arising obliquely, obliquely, forked forked at margin forked both largest arms lobed again, near largest one divisions so are as deflected meet so margins as pinnules meet more margins divisions commonly at twenty-five very thirty-two angles ultimate 0.5 0.5 basal inferior decurrent is or fed simple several, near once apex simple pinna veins that veins arise that directly arise rachis." the (Carboniferous Rocks and Fossil Floras Fossil of Northern Nova Scotia, W. A. Bell, Ottawa, 1944) now it this comes it from comes the carboniferous this anthracite closest region - pennsylvania a these appeared close pennsylvania relative - appeared of my buried collections, in buried susquehanna susquehanna 1972, flood which 1972, collections, which now swallowed basement large first basement building first swallowed floor a building of wilkes-barre wilkes- barre historical historical society; society; underground underground decontextual- decontextualized, present appearing era, present judging era, by image-fossil, book, judging ized, book, the resonant and what and i 35, seen i plates is 30 resonant 32 what 35, have walked plates among my coal in flora early youth learning early among 1950s the pennsylvania, coal learning flora locate the myself mobius elsewhere of within time, mobius out time, spatial spewed locate out myself spatial within cloaca, reichenbach's tethered genidentity, reichenbach's all genidentity, time, for no all matter no cloaca, matter tethered how to dismembered; time little matter time the left, of location how heavy rock, image-real matter ::learning to locate myself elsewhere within the mobius of time, spewed out from spatial cloaca, tethered to reichenbach's genidentity, for all time, no matter how dismembered; no matter how little time is left, no matter the location of heavy rock, no matter the impres === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:53:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Fleshy Red Thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Fleshy Red Thing (a Thanksgiving Poem from Gary & Nada) Fasten off wattle (using red). Attach red to any head-cluster insane fasten of secure ends. Make sure wings hang free so they appear to "flap". Repeat for red wattle: wrap around your finger to form spirals. Hang snood red on neck. Cut around red or wattle. To create eyes, draw a black void on each pom-pom, then cut out all yellow and glue construction in place. Perverse people can order wattle dimsum dumplings in New York's Chinatown. Uninflate "nose" at one end, then knot off the wattle. To make turkey talk, cut out a pair of small felt triangles and glue them to opposite sides. What is the bright red appendage? Loose changes in your neck can make you look older. It feels like your ear lobe. Carefully moisten a V-shape arising from the forehead. Glue on two googly eyes and fill up with blood. Make the turkey's lungs knot together in center of folded napkin (do not inflate them). You put your whole wattle in You put your whole wattle out You put your whole wattle in And you shake it all about. I don't dare write a truthful personal ad: "Enlarged pores, dozens of new age spots, emergent wattle. Boop-bleep-boop- whooo-blip I’m Ronald Reagan. I'm ... mind?" As in mammals, birds have a four-chambered heart; however, a Turkey's heart is proportionately larger and more powerful. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: EMILY O'HARA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed EMILY O'HARA Because I cannot stop for lunch -- LeRoi kindly stops for me -- I'm hung-over, take an Alka-Seltzer -- Which makes me have to pee. We slowly stroll -- LeRoi langorously agitates And I seem to have puked away My early morning bagel and my coffee too, But gracefully -- We pass the Cedar, where Pollock's frame Recesses--when he's not "in the ring" -- We pass a young Marjorie Perloff Such a serious look for a young girl's face -- Or rather--she passes us--or anyway will-- Mountain Dew hasn't been invented yet -- There's only Coca-Cola, and perhaps Fanta? -- although I'm no authority -- We pause before a construction site that seems To swell up from the ground -- The roof of LeRoi's mouth is suddenly visible -- His crowns -- Cut to -- decades later -- I'm dead And now LeRoi's fully Amiri -- And I guess people are fairly upset About that poem of his post-WTC -- ? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:14:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "m.a.g. special edition" Subject: jim leftwich featured in the m.a.g. special edition Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi everyone! i wish you all holiday cheer for you and your families! for dessert try the m.a.g. special edition featuring jim leftwich http://www.muse-apprentice-guild.com/special-edition/leftwich/ the m.a.g. special edition will be published several times annually it is devoted to one writer or new media artist the next m.a.g. special edition appears in mid-december cheers, augie www.afterhours-literati-cafe.com www.guardian-del-sol.com www.web-published-nation.com www.urbantextkult.com www.wired-paris-review.com www.voice-of-the-village.com www.amazon-salon.com www.atlantic-ploughshares.com www.thebookburningdepartment.com www.thebrainjuicepress.com www.antigenreelitecorps.com www.inkbombdisposalunit.com www.post-mortem-telepathic-society.com www.pornalisa.com www.digital-media-generation.com www.newliteraryunderground.com www.textmodificationstudio.com www.advancedliterarysciences.com www.cultureanimal.com www.muse-apprentice-guild.com www.literaturebuzz.com www.bookcrazed.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:31:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: BURLESQUE AND THANKFUL Comments: cc: webartery , "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The trees, who have inexplicably decided that nudity serves the cold, wash over the blacktop in a spill of tawny veins. November spins frost where once moods pooled. In a loop a sky failing nothing but this death of autumn on pavement and traffic sands falls through each phase in a blink that stutters. She wants warm cooking to ease the chill from her hands. The burden of mothers sums all familial marks in the arc of her loving the kitchen with thankful motion. As male, I wash in the lighter stones of strange birds calling my eyes glued shut to a physics of remorse. This season is good for stripping. 11/28/02 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:11:58 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: palindrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi, is the palindrome "lonely tylenol" from a poem? if so, which one? just checking before i rip it off and call it my own. thanks, kevin Rest never sleeps ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:34:30 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: adorno in L.A. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII There was some talk about Ted's Excellent L.A. Adventure. I had this in my archives. Includes snapshots of his home and him at his writing desk. Israel, Nico. Damage Control: Adorno, Los Angeles, and the Dislocation of Culture. The Yale Journal of Criticism 10.1 (1997) 85-113 from the city of Angelos, Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:13:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: palindrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It appears in a piece by Peter Gizzi, and then reappears in a piece by somebody else -- I think Lehman -- but I don't have any of my books with me and so can't give citations -- On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:11:58 +0000, "K.Angelo Hehir" wrote: > hi, > > is the palindrome "lonely tylenol" from a poem? if so, which one? > > > just checking before i rip it off and call it my own. > > thanks, > kevin > > Rest never sleeps > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "So all rogues lean to rhyme." --James Joyce Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:41:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: palindrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kevin, I think its been used a bit, but don't let that stop you. I found this at http://www.flyinghorse-ucf.org/newsletter.html Sharon Mesmer and David Humphrey In collaboration for a second time, this team is working on Lonely Tylenol. David Humphrey's lyrical line and Sharon Mesmer's fast-punch elegant prose are sure to be a dynamic work of art. David Humphrey is the 2002 recipient of the Guggenheim Award for Visual Art. Sharon Mesmer is the 1999 recipient of the New York Foundation for the Arts Grant in Poetry Lonely Tylenol currently in production and is scheduled to be published in late fall 2002. Look forward to seeing this project! For more information on David Humphrey visit the McKee Gallery web site. Some other Humphrey links include Drunken Boat and Solomon Project (click on "artists" to find out about David's new exhibiting.) Read some thoughts about Sharon Mesmer's book Half Angel, Half Lunch on Culture Port's web site. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K.Angelo Hehir" To: Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 2:41 PM Subject: palindrome > hi, > > is the palindrome "lonely tylenol" from a poem? if so, which one? > > > just checking before i rip it off and call it my own. > > thanks, > kevin > > Rest never sleeps > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:53:34 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: palindrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes but that's no reason not to use it if it works in a poem.... and remember when you're free-basing your turkey, do not let elton od peels never sleeep c > > hi, > > > > is the palindrome "lonely tylenol" from a poem? if so, which one? > > > > > > just checking before i rip it off and call it my own. > > > > thanks, > > kevin > > > > Rest never sleeps > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "So all rogues lean to rhyme." > --James Joyce > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:21:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: moron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, and we heard she had to resign, too. i thought Canada was a nation seperate from the USA. Apparently not, eh? D -----Original Message----- From: George Bowering To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:27 PM Subject: moron >Hey, has the news about the Prime Minister's aide calling Bush a >"moron" got much press down there? A guy from Bellingham said that >what burned his ass was being required to call that moron a president. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:15:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: f(UI,mr): MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII f(UI,mr): */unique index file mr/* Ap Th be ba ag -- me di wo re he ro fr th Ke of Ga pa ga in Pe a fa al go to ta sh on pl & is wh li pi up as ha ne ou fe at ti un se de ar sm It br by gi da No Ma Gr Ni Do Le Ko He an ma no - ev mu us la fu sp or st gu ca bo na ab Wo == su em "I wa ea I kn gr sw fo yo ol pu cl mo vi co le tu wi rh 18 tr ri lo va ci ce en 7 we ir op si so ob ni o ey am ho lu ph wr it pe ac cu "T RE ke BL EL KE SI 20 cr ww BU TH BO Yo sl ge hu do Bu Fo od fl ap bu In hy gl im hi pr St ch I' vo mi po Sp cy sc ef af Ov WO AD To 22 dr Or sa au El :: // >/ << >> :< "r Ba bl Ja Hu "b fi Is Mi _i ex te sk my / av "l PA (D Ed Po p. ru (s Jo 9 Sl A- 50 ot "O tw qu ps ht ov 0. 3. 37 41 5. 6. 8. 9. MI b2 mm nu ur Tr 35 .m ad We Se es Te Ne cd i je [y [n ra eu ye el i' il ec ow ep if 'h 's k2 ks k3 Es 'I At 'e ju id Wh 't So ki 'b sy ed Di ve Am 'g 'l Un 'f 'p Ye 17 13 81 1 10 12 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 PO AB AL AV BK CI CO CY DE DI FI FL FO FU IN KY LO MO NO PR QU SO VI WR k1 DU GE LA SE SY TA oh 3D AS AZ BE BI CL D. D7 DH DR GO HE JE JU KD LI MA ME NE OR ST WA 19 Go On (T < > Br Ca Ch E. Fu Ge Gi Ia J. Mo Ra \ ia 'C Al An Ar Da De E- Fr Ka La Mc RO US a. c ij jo mz 3r 7- : 0v 3s AO IS J_ KJ Mu RW b. bg bi cg cj ck ct db dd dj ds dt du e. ek et gd gg gm gn gq gw h. i2 iv ja jd jh ji jl jt k. ka kk ko kr lc ll mc mf mg ms mt mw og r. sg sj ty vf vs ze =? A. AC Me AN AR Ab Ad Ag Ah Au Av Aw Az BA BH BR Be Bi Bo C C. CC CF CS CT Cl Co cw Cr Cu Cy DK DS Dr Du EC EK Ea Em Ev Ex Fi Fl G GU Gh Gl Gu Gw H H. HS Ha Ho Hr Im Ir Iv JD JO JR Je Ji Ju KA KO Ki Kn Kr L L. LY Li Lo Lu Ly M. MP MS My N. Na Nm OP Ob Ol Os Ow P[ Pa Ph Pi Pr Ps Pu Qu R RC RF Re Ri Ro Ru Ry S. 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Ot iz 30 === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:01:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: moron In-Reply-To: <005d01c29724$0d477980$5796ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Uh huh. It is getting scary. Now an ad campaign in britain has been banned because it feartured Dubya putting a videotape into a toaster. >Yeah, and we heard she had to resign, too. i thought Canada was a nation >seperate from the USA. Apparently not, eh? D >-----Original Message----- >Subject: moron > > >>Hey, has the news about the Prime Minister's aide calling Bush a >>"moron" got much press down there? A guy from Bellingham said that > >what burned his ass was being required to call that moron a president. > > -- George Bowering Has terrible bed hair. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:27:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Sienna Lapse Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stone head, deaf to onion finger wounds, peel the moisture from models of political ports. Your eyes sink deeper in your head as light like a fist spellchecks moments in which the cold pills palsy saccharine speeds that betray burnt hungers of sienna lapse. Stone head, I'll pick you up at the airport. force onions into your fingers to lie to the dead. In order to better focus on November, the cold pills lyricize teeth like the worst of all possible headaches. Shimmied to an artery deep in stone, you'll watch everything behind you slip liquid reflections over the screen from which you feed, a network (a curt curl of algae, algorithmic syncopation), or through which your freezing glides like glassy bulbs on thin rope workspace. I like the ugly boots you've flung upon the chair. Stone ends of live webs, when I flinch from recollection of unsatisfying girls ripped around falsifying hymns with steganographic innaccuracies of gaze, a sallow prayer reaches out for me. You. who are balanced by your lust for typing, grow positively ludic in charred chat response. I love everything that could go wrong. 11/28/02 ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:26:21 +1030 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Bolton Subject: Re: EMILY O'HARA In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Emily O'Hara is pretty funny. The first line reminded me of TS Eliot - something about "turning"? Cheers Ken bolton ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:14:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: palindrome Comments: To: ALDON L NIELSEN In-Reply-To: <200211282013.PAA20594@webmail9.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit actually i too used this in an encomium to ibuprofen, entitled "Dear Ibuprofen," which I sign "Sincerely, Gabriel Gudding," so i pretty much put my inimical definitive stamp on it too. i'm selling the rights to this and a few other palindromes along with several anagrams, backchannel Quoting ALDON L NIELSEN : > It appears in a piece by Peter Gizzi, and then reappears in a piece by > somebody > else -- I think Lehman -- but I don't have any of my books with me and so > can't > give citations -- > > On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:11:58 +0000, "K.Angelo Hehir" wrote: > > > hi, > > > > is the palindrome "lonely tylenol" from a poem? if so, which one? > > > > > > just checking before i rip it off and call it my own. > > > > thanks, > > kevin > > > > Rest never sleeps > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "So all rogues lean to rhyme." > --James Joyce > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ------------------------------------------------------------ Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:40:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: bowering In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >aha! i thought it was "Bowering for Columbine." that wd be very >compelling indeed. I have never held a pistol in my hand. Boy, us Canadians are wusses! -- George Bowering Has terrible bed hair. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:39:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: palindrome In-Reply-To: <1038539665.3de6db9196dac@webmail2.ilstu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Parenthetically I had a brief stint between jobs in "branding" or "naming." I remember one job - about 1998 - was to come up with a name for a new Monsanto company that would produce genetically modified products(corn, cotton etc.)! I had some instinct that a poet might be perfect for creating Corporate logos and such. It turned out I was not good. Ironic and satirical impulses kept getting in the way. My sense of the people who were good at branding were also good at scrabble and crossword puzzles, and they seemed value neutral when they got into the imaginative plough of the name inventing process. In 1998, remember, so many businesses were being established, finding a unique name/brand/logo reflective of the content of the business was a major problem, an issue of scarcity and a source of big bucks for "naming" companies. (Not a problem today - you can pick up names for practically nothing from all those businesses that have gone under.) I do remember, however, that one of the ploys of finding a new name was the use of palindromes, or just spelling words backwards, or ones that end in a vowel as a means to find some unique sounding combination of syllables. I suspect the folks who came up with Tylenol started with "lonely" backwards and added the "t". (As I write this, it's suddenly a curious question, that is what is the conceptual difference between being "lonely backwards", and "lonely forwards"?) O well, happy thanksgivings. Stephen V on 11/28/02 7:14 PM, Gabriel Gudding at gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > actually i too used this in an encomium to ibuprofen, entitled "Dear > Ibuprofen," which I sign "Sincerely, Gabriel Gudding," so i pretty much put my > inimical definitive stamp on it too. i'm selling the rights to this and a few > other palindromes along with several anagrams, backchannel > > Quoting ALDON L NIELSEN : > >> It appears in a piece by Peter Gizzi, and then reappears in a piece by >> somebody >> else -- I think Lehman -- but I don't have any of my books with me and so >> can't >> give citations -- >> >> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:11:58 +0000, "K.Angelo Hehir" wrote: >> >>> hi, >>> >>> is the palindrome "lonely tylenol" from a poem? if so, which one? >>> >>> >>> just checking before i rip it off and call it my own. >>> >>> thanks, >>> kevin >>> >>> Rest never sleeps >>> >>> >> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> "So all rogues lean to rhyme." >> --James Joyce >> >> >> Aldon L. Nielsen >> Kelly Professor of American Literature >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:52:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: palindrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit T as in Tether. David -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Vincent To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: Re: palindrome Parenthetically I had a brief stint between jobs in "branding" or "naming." I remember one job - about 1998 - was to come up with a name for a new Monsanto company that would produce genetically modified products(corn, cotton etc.)! I had some instinct that a poet might be perfect for creating Corporate logos and such. It turned out I was not good. Ironic and satirical impulses kept getting in the way. My sense of the people who were good at branding were also good at scrabble and crossword puzzles, and they seemed value neutral when they got into the imaginative plough of the name inventing process. In 1998, remember, so many businesses were being established, finding a unique name/brand/logo reflective of the content of the business was a major problem, an issue of scarcity and a source of big bucks for "naming" companies. (Not a problem today - you can pick up names for practically nothing from all those businesses that have gone under.) I do remember, however, that one of the ploys of finding a new name was the use of palindromes, or just spelling words backwards, or ones that end in a vowel as a means to find some unique sounding combination of syllables. I suspect the folks who came up with Tylenol started with "lonely" backwards and added the "t". (As I write this, it's suddenly a curious question, that is what is the conceptual difference between being "lonely backwards", and "lonely forwards"?) O well, happy thanksgivings. Stephen V on 11/28/02 7:14 PM, Gabriel Gudding at gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU wrote: > actually i too used this in an encomium to ibuprofen, entitled "Dear > Ibuprofen," which I sign "Sincerely, Gabriel Gudding," so i pretty much put my > inimical definitive stamp on it too. i'm selling the rights to this and a few > other palindromes along with several anagrams, backchannel > > Quoting ALDON L NIELSEN : > >> It appears in a piece by Peter Gizzi, and then reappears in a piece by >> somebody >> else -- I think Lehman -- but I don't have any of my books with me and so >> can't >> give citations -- >> >> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:11:58 +0000, "K.Angelo Hehir" wrote: >> >>> hi, >>> >>> is the palindrome "lonely tylenol" from a poem? if so, which one? >>> >>> >>> just checking before i rip it off and call it my own. >>> >>> thanks, >>> kevin >>> >>> Rest never sleeps >>> >>> >> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> "So all rogues lean to rhyme." >> --James Joyce >> >> >> Aldon L. Nielsen >> Kelly Professor of American Literature >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:17:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Indices: Entire Internet Text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Indices: Entire Internet Text f(UI,Internet Text,1) D O T N P j 5 d b - S 2 p t 0 r 1 l x ( m s 4 3 6 i 7 8 9 w c u a g * n f e h o J C B q I y A _ F W < R " U =3D k E M v + . K ? 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Pz +J F] W] ,A @& Q4 3S 8E +L zM G* S# K7 Bw aH 1~ ^5 }h k@ Lb FP Kg Mw 9u ]J &k -Y u! p7 N] n( V# A9 iF h\ bD P\ `] 5B IQ %' +Z ]} FX i@ eY wG :U ?) #B 4T #x k' 9G vH ?1 1$ T+ eE u) t> }+ V& \+ #, 3& 7\ 0& ': /! !W RG TK +f XN ^: r> T: !Q D5 yS DX !z *& %e {0 1} 4} {- G3 hz u/ WM "] "; #H ~U #R F@ "} gF &, N[ hF e) DV W1 M; M9 M=3D Ws B; L; mU :B ]s *) :g 0+ 1@ !T =3D] ,8 ;6 GW h~= 6( Fj `| u+ $P v[ TB f3 uT L6 2Q 7Y Tt ,v &7 n8 q* Vh ^) ~< m7 aF 0` |j }b @7 k$ X& `P 2~ G& V=3D d\ &! vF &` )J W+ ?- O# 6H f] ?P gP =3DP >" XP Yk (] ~`= \F bF ;u b+ XQ v+ Kt }d QP 0M g} Vk @9 H/ QK ;( }6 s7 Rd ?A V( o3 f4 YF Vr @> l] pS CV Qw G( XH ]@ A~ 3Q 3p hT JB ?: `1 )y `: Z) c] !8 h7 ZH 8Y kX j* e$ t" Vt CF D8 pF 2x }a ~) Kj 4h D3 XW f_ FG t\ xG 7i t_ %K \* k` 3" i$ @O nH d{ >+ V0 Xk Jn B# K~ xN 7Z =3D" oX =3D3 u2 7+ #( n) Qc 6^ Qs g# w\ QG :4 @`= &* ]X \I Qx h+ _& X` WK +U s1 #G pT M^ ?f n0 iX g[ S{ [& A@ D@ 4( i1 LT yD $W Pv i( +' s? )? Qh 5z 8H {S Gg }e bV 0N K2 5? 6$ 6U S` qL mT ZS `W VB @H B_ )g ,S m1 t2 d4 c3 f6 w2 h8 o1 ^p 2( _; A/ O/ N/ J/ yE kI .# .B .x :# QA 9k 'B 8k Xu 4k NR OG Zw ~i 1k 1? 9" dS VU eS gS oS Aj jA g0 9D wq cz 9% ~k ~g ~o Ue -& -, Mv "=DB "=DC h" i) p) b" @K >O >@ .T F( +R `v :Y A* X2 2] n] s-= w" o: k" u: w; k; Q/ k< S( P- F5 .2 =3D4 q" v) 'R `w Ej d) B' K' '7 yk yB `a v= - HD P! P? P, HL eV Rt x\ $Z :' |< :G *q *x cR Vy Xn "X V3 `H s" r2 px vx vq c1 `n |C `T `i R `b PY `B `C `D `E `= F `G `I `J `K `L `M `N `O `Q `R `S `U `V `X `Y `Z {{ [< f\ m\ D& (` \ \2 5] \f 3] M* XM nS nY @: *; Xl -@ lW U1 7@ nD n@ l@ XC tU T=F1 tz =EA! tN l\ gM fW Yb 3u -W t1 x1 {E= %l c* e} Wd b_ f7 E{ X7 V8 SJ xY Tg B3 fF ^q yG JX w0 vZ wB R6 e\ y1 {8 a{ qg NK yL TQ @M @B @P g- hS Jg ]` Q1 dB B2 }U L` q] lV rJ Gq HF QO cv -# +b #A {N =3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:12:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: SOFT TARGETS In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DATA soft targets turn cold void of grape in twin cups no toss to stella we mute the red thorn - a b c d e f g h I j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 0 * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 5 * 6 * 7 * 8 * 9 * 10 * 11 * 12 13 * 14 * 15 * 16 * 17 18 * 19 * 20 * 21 * 22 23 24 * 25 * 26 * 27 * 28 29 * 30 * 31 32 * 33 * 34 * 35 * 36 * 37 38 * 39 * 40 41 * 42 * 43 * 44 * 45 46 * 47 * 48 * 49 * 50 51 52 * 53 * 54 55 * 56 * 57 * 58 * 59 60 * 61 * 62 63 * 64 * 65 * 66 * 67 * 68 * 69 70 71 * 72 * 73 74 * 75 * 76 * 77 * 78 79 * 80 * 81 * 82 83 * 84 * 85 * 86 87 * 88 * 89 * 90 * 91 * 92 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:18:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: subrosa@SPEAKEASY.ORG Subject: SPIRAL STARES Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 SPIRAL STARES Sleep siren, spiral starist * Clouds as I knew writing is a strangeness * Waking in two waters, being you, being both * Liquid, is to verb, is motion, spends days staring * Silence travels up the spine & into the brain * There is the sun itself equal to zero, I find hair everywhere * Endeavor of light, light as endeavor * Sent, the first sense organ is here unwritten * To leap is a product of sitting * One thought glued to another, a daisy chained * Simon, the most famous of the pillar hermits * A moment, but more like moving, moved, mauve * Language is touching, is the skinny transcriber * Fastened by string, telepathy swings in the throat * These unrestrained horses in the face of it * Light between us makes a solid where there was none * There is danger in the frequencies themselves, the whitest of noise * Staring, blinking, sleeping, cats caught in mid air * The pelting of clouds equal to the eyes in a purple crush * The passage is a boat of monkey-logic, a mountain of fo am * Meaning swirls in the folds of a smothered point * In the center where to turn yellow is to disappear * The sky is an opening to graze on shoulders so near the head * Up to the last minute...there will be a great worship of animals * Speak swell, speaks well, peaks well, swell speaks, peak speech * From everything ripples outward above our daily ness * The anticipation of what you do happens and into what you do we * Language at a standstill is in flux * Grows toward declaring the body as fuel for the sun to persist * Particles accumulate inside this bag are what matter * Darling lower lip, darling the warm landing * Enough will satisfy to barter vision * The bean snug airless, the bean disrobing, exploding 2002 Nico Vassilakis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:57:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: palindrome In-Reply-To: <1038539665.3de6db9196dac@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to remind everyone that Gabriel Gudding is an anagram for "A BRIDLED GIG GNU" which is open source & without charge. mIEKAL On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > actually i too used this in an encomium to ibuprofen, entitled "Dear > Ibuprofen," which I sign "Sincerely, Gabriel Gudding," so i pretty > much put my > inimical definitive stamp on it too. i'm selling the rights to this > and a few > other palindromes along with several anagrams, backchannel > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:30:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: no subject Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pepsin ripe data protection Marjorie going confine wants, pepsin jackscrew hypocritical belgian ripe data protection Marjorie going confine berlin lady, wants, pepsin dishevel jackscrew hypocritical belgian ripe data protection Marjorie going confine gladly berlin lady, wants, pepsin tractor feed dishevel jackscrew hypocritical belgian ripe data protection Marjorie going confine All arena heir! heave hoy! gladly berlin lady, wants, rite prophetic, spite take long tractor feed dishevel jackscrew hypocritical belgian beating All arena heir! heave hoy! gladly berlin lady, serenade travel rubber-band anymore knows rite prophetic, spite take long tractor feed dishevel thirsty beating All arena heir! heave hoy! gladly relaxation bullet serenade travel rubber-band anymore knows rite prophetic, spite take long tractor feed inert abc edict placed province thirsty beating All arena heir! heave hoy! probable relaxation bullet serenade travel rubber-band anymore knows rite prophetic, spite take long send off gives trust women inert abc edict placed province thirsty beating laddie probable relaxation 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erecting parade synchronizes fjord cobbler, unless condescend inundate gaily dining-flint, lasso hesitate helsinki consequently someone flay, fervor, caesium sympathies Massachusetts confined whist, same, propose erecting parade synchronizes fjord cobbler, unless condescend inundate gaily dining-flint, lasso hesitate look, flay thoroughgoing particularly data protection consequently someone flay, fervor, caesium disciple whist, same, propose erecting parade synchronizes fjord cobbler, unless condescend inundate nobles laid knowledge oppressing hue, look, flay thoroughgoing particularly data protection consequently someone eventually disputed centuries, disciple whist, same, propose erecting parade synchronizes fjord data protection-scenary, caesium nobles laid knowledge oppressing hue, look, flay thoroughgoing particularly data protection consequently prigs Al-Irak, enraged-thieves Ajam eventually disputed centuries, disciple whist, same, propose invader-overseas codierencode see trousers ball-pen, data protection-scenary, caesium nobles laid knowledge oppressing hue, look, flay thoroughgoing particularly data protection prisoner war prigs Al-Irak, enraged-thieves Ajam eventually disputed centuries, disciple wrapping-fight drugged trousers too drugged thee invader-overseas codierencode see trousers ball-pen, data protection-scenary, caesium nobles laid knowledge oppressing hue, speed abominate Manor H S Bennet prisoner war prigs Al-Irak, enraged-thieves Ajam eventually disputed centuries, seriously intended exclaimed wrapping-fight drugged trousers too drugged thee invader-overseas codierencode see trousers ball-pen, data protection-scenary, caesium managers speed abominate Manor H S Bennet prisoner war prigs Al-Irak, enraged-thieves Ajam cares dwarf, anxiety terrace seriously intended exclaimed wrapping-fight drugged trousers too drugged thee invader-overseas codierencode see trousers ball-pen, absolve managers speed abominate Manor H S Bennet prisoner war toy store, need cares dwarf, anxiety terrace seriously intended exclaimed wrapping-fight drugged trousers too drugged thee fresh typewriter, tranquillity zap absolve managers speed abominate Manor H S Bennet pontificate appointed toy store, need cares dwarf, anxiety terrace seriously intended exclaimed diarihea fresh typewriter, tranquillity zap absolve managers apex pontificate appointed toy store, need cares dwarf, anxiety terrace derision enough stopping week disease modular diarihea fresh typewriter, tranquillity zap absolve brethren dark-room! postage stamp implacable apex pontificate appointed toy store, need --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:00:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: 2 no subject Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit both knew lived some penis little rosebud impediment ladies swoon both knew lived some leans forward more lips take Lovell gave Algernon penis little rosebud impediment ladies furtively teased glistening snatch fuck hard picked up pace Loren runs through own widen verbatim, now bare bottom Say boys swoon both knew lived some breath talk few minutes leans forward more lips take Lovell gave Algernon penis little rosebud impediment ladies adressing furtively teased glistening snatch fuck hard picked up pace Loren runs through own widen verbatim, now bare bottom Say boys swoon both knew lived some micorprocessor breath talk few minutes leans forward more lips take Lovell gave Algernon penis little rosebud impediment ladies Ne'er kitchen table some tools beautiful sight pussy twig, one men table more adressing furtively teased glistening snatch fuck hard picked up pace Loren runs through own widen verbatim, now bare bottom Say boys swoon scarf tied doorknob those large desk pads people doodle face lit moonlight micorprocessor breath talk few minutes leans forward more lips take Lovell gave Algernon lecherous Ne'er kitchen table some tools beautiful sight pussy twig, one men table more adressing furtively teased glistening snatch fuck hard picked up pace Loren runs through own widen verbatim, now bare bottom Say boys scarf tied doorknob those large desk pads people doodle face lit moonlight micorprocessor breath talk few minutes sanity lecherous Ne'er kitchen table some tools beautiful sight pussy twig, one men table more adressing baffled anise, tidings, felt wonderful manhood Robert scarf tied doorknob those large desk pads people doodle face lit moonlight micorprocessor Ooh exclaimed sorry time left arm went linen offering postmarks-testifications sanity lecherous Ne'er kitchen table some tools beautiful sight pussy twig, one men table more listened door minute baffled anise, tidings, felt wonderful manhood Robert scarf tied doorknob those large desk pads people doodle face lit moonlight arrived front door rang Ooh exclaimed sorry time left arm went linen offering postmarks-testifications sanity lecherous smooth tan legs perfect heart listened door minute baffled anise, tidings, felt wonderful manhood Robert related incredibly wet encouraged arrived front door rang Ooh exclaimed sorry time left arm went linen offering postmarks-testifications sanity night fingered myself off twice straight office smooth tan legs perfect heart listened door minute baffled anise, tidings, felt wonderful manhood Robert related incredibly wet encouraged arrived front door rang Ooh exclaimed sorry time left arm went linen offering postmarks-testifications car past hundred miles per hour night fingered myself off twice straight office smooth tan legs perfect heart listened door minute peddle related incredibly wet encouraged arrived front door rang aside caressing pussy tongue now teases ass another inch torment Billy car past hundred miles per hour night fingered myself off twice straight office smooth tan legs perfect heart emphatically, close midnight finally got moaning Kelly doing wonderful peddle related incredibly wet encouraged quite day hope? felt wonderful manhood aside caressing pussy tongue now teases ass another inch torment Billy car past hundred miles per hour night fingered myself off twice straight office see Lisa felt Lisa starting emphatically, close midnight finally got moaning Kelly doing wonderful peddle Connie looked little younger long cheeses capitally, Beth pressed lips Lisa quite day hope? felt wonderful manhood aside caressing pussy tongue now teases ass another inch torment Billy car past hundred miles per hour whim grip shoulder blades calmly leading scarf tied doorknob Mary Ann see Lisa felt Lisa starting emphatically, close midnight finally got moaning Kelly doing wonderful peddle waited feeling subside Connie looked little younger long cheeses capitally, Beth pressed lips Lisa quite day hope? felt wonderful manhood aside caressing pussy tongue now teases ass another inch torment Billy separated revealing dainty inner jamming Edward Blancove? pulpet whim grip shoulder blades calmly leading scarf tied doorknob Mary Ann see Lisa felt Lisa starting emphatically, close midnight finally got moaning Kelly doing wonderful waited feeling subside Connie looked little younger long cheeses capitally, Beth pressed lips Lisa quite day hope? felt wonderful manhood brute Probably intent tell wainscot see sick fascination smacks separated revealing dainty inner jamming Edward Blancove? pulpet whim grip shoulder blades calmly leading scarf tied doorknob Mary Ann see Lisa felt Lisa starting travel technician, husband can turn Monday waited feeling subside Connie looked little younger long cheeses capitally, Beth pressed lips Lisa Robert, tunic brute Probably intent tell wainscot see sick fascination smacks separated revealing dainty inner jamming Edward Blancove? pulpet whim grip shoulder blades calmly leading scarf tied doorknob Mary Ann kitchen come back hot apple travel technician, husband can turn Monday waited feeling subside pulled chair knelt between knees leaned come picnic Robert, tunic brute Probably intent tell wainscot see sick fascination smacks separated revealing dainty inner jamming Edward Blancove? pulpet escalator kitchen come back hot apple travel technician, husband can turn Monday watched fucked fast hard pulled chair knelt between knees leaned come picnic Robert, tunic brute Probably intent tell wainscot see sick fascination smacks passionately kissed Beth two escalator kitchen come back hot apple travel technician, husband can turn Monday chanse sister valley, swingeing being star attraction two men watched fucked fast hard pulled chair knelt between knees leaned come picnic Robert, tunic passionately kissed Beth two escalator kitchen come back hot apple squid chanse sister valley, swingeing being star attraction two men watched fucked fast hard pulled chair knelt between knees leaned come picnic twisted feeble remonstrance hips avoid full impact passionately kissed Beth two escalator lets ripping squid chanse sister valley, swingeing being star attraction two men watched fucked fast hard hard cocks release together pubic bone kept slamming twisted feeble remonstrance hips avoid full impact passionately kissed Beth two free Lunch only official lets ripping squid chanse sister valley, swingeing being star attraction two men free table moving excavator scarf tied doorknob mound finger slid between wet stories, hard cocks release together pubic bone kept slamming twisted feeble remonstrance hips avoid full impact free Lunch only official lets ripping squid marquis felt wonderful manhood sepia greens see wearing pink free table moving excavator scarf tied doorknob mound finger slid between wet stories, hard cocks release together pubic bone kept slamming twisted feeble remonstrance hips avoid full impact unpleasant serenity sternness damp moisture hung free Lunch only official lets ripping lawnmower marquis felt wonderful manhood sepia greens see wearing pink free table moving excavator scarf tied doorknob mound finger slid between wet stories, hard cocks release together pubic bone kept slamming side part way down leg unpleasant serenity sternness damp moisture hung free Lunch only official lawnmower marquis felt wonderful manhood sepia greens see wearing pink free table moving excavator scarf tied doorknob mound finger slid between wet stories, Karishma looked Pooja few side part way down leg unpleasant serenity sternness damp moisture hung ideas asspire, myself off still want see moaning Kelly doing wonderful sweets solution lawnmower marquis felt wonderful manhood sepia greens see wearing pink relieved actions hadn't ramadan betrayed whining, regards time tastes warm chocolate back let crawl glistened light room Karishma looked Pooja few side part way down leg unpleasant serenity sternness damp moisture hung die too soon Filling glass ideas asspire, myself off still want see moaning Kelly doing wonderful sweets solution lawnmower another word off class emulator relieved actions hadn't ramadan betrayed whining, regards time tastes warm chocolate back let crawl glistened light room Karishma looked Pooja few side part way down leg sporadic die too soon Filling glass ideas asspire, myself off still want see moaning Kelly doing wonderful sweets solution prooftechnique-slowly moving down length body swallows last load another word off class emulator relieved actions hadn't ramadan betrayed whining, regards time tastes warm chocolate back let crawl glistened light room Karishma looked Pooja few contexts, prooftechnique, syndicate-astrocious, incredibly wet encouraged sporadic die too soon Filling glass ideas asspire, myself off still want see moaning Kelly doing wonderful sweets solution little too much taste prooftechnique-slowly moving down length body swallows last load another word off class emulator relieved actions hadn't ramadan betrayed whining, regards time tastes warm chocolate back let crawl glistened light room move dick slowly contexts, prooftechnique, syndicate-astrocious, incredibly wet encouraged sporadic die too soon Filling glass wrapping-noddle dark blue panties down Oh pussy handle inch close midnight finally got sepia little too much taste prooftechnique-slowly moving down length body swallows last load another word off class emulator sudden intake breath gracefully leaned lined up move dick slowly contexts, prooftechnique, syndicate-astrocious, incredibly wet encouraged sporadic lifetime petals blood red wunt caution wind sensed dang inside separated revealing dainty inner still even know asleep wrapping-noddle dark blue panties down Oh pussy handle inch close midnight finally got sepia little too much taste prooftechnique-slowly moving down length body swallows last load began move up down sudden intake breath gracefully leaned lined up move dick slowly contexts, prooftechnique, syndicate-astrocious, incredibly wet encouraged just aching lips wrapped lifetime petals blood red wunt caution wind sensed dang inside separated revealing dainty inner still even know asleep wrapping-noddle dark blue panties down Oh pussy handle inch close midnight finally got sepia little too much taste began move up down sudden intake breath gracefully leaned lined up move dick slowly prodigious giving sensations starboard just aching lips wrapped lifetime petals blood red wunt caution wind sensed dang inside separated revealing dainty inner still even know asleep wrapping-noddle dark blue panties down Oh pussy handle inch close midnight finally got sepia began move up down sudden intake breath gracefully leaned lined up literally let scream prodigious giving sensations starboard just aching lips wrapped lifetime petals blood red wunt caution wind sensed dang inside separated revealing dainty inner still even know asleep padded swivel rockers foot zink Doing called began move up down witchcraft literally let scream prodigious giving sensations starboard just aching lips wrapped Shit muttered chuckle Karen up passion love liked selfinterest padded swivel rockers foot zink Doing called inasmuch witchcraft literally let scream prodigious giving sensations starboard young protégé Miguel doing algebrae, Shit muttered chuckle Karen up passion love liked selfinterest padded swivel rockers foot zink Doing called dinners, syndicate wines, syndicate undo, hands nipples hard inasmuch witchcraft literally let scream prooftechnique --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/26/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:44:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: fear of palindromes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed AIBOHPHOBIA _a play by Nada & Gary_ [Scene: Bob & Anna, 2002.] BOB: Yo! ANNA: Oy. So many dynamos. BOB: Too hot to hoot. Sniff’um muffins! ANNA: Yo! Banana Boy. Yawn a more Roman way. BOB: Timid? I’m it. Snug & raw was I ere I saw war & guns. ANNA: So many dynamos. BOB: Was it a bat I saw? Was it a bar or a bat I saw. Was it a cat I saw? Was it a car or a cat I saw. Was it a rat I saw? Was it Eliot’s toilet I saw…? ANNA: T. Eliot nixes sex in toilet. T. Eliot, top bard, notes putrid tang emanating, is sad, I’d assign it a name: gnat dirt upset on drab pot toilet. Sex-aware era waxes. Sexes. Is sensuousness I? BOB: Sore was I ere I saw Eros. ANNA: No, son! Onanism’s a gross orgasm sin—a no-no, son! Lay a wallaby baby ball away, Al. Strap on no parts. Model truth: turtledom. BOB: A dank, sad nap. On a clover, if alive, erupts a vast, pure evil. A fire volcano. Eels sleep and ask Nada. ANNA: Go, desire vagina. Man I gave. Rise dog. BOB: Aha! A dog! A panic in a pagoda! I’m alas, a salami. ANNA: I, Mary, tramp martyr. Am I? BOB: No pet so tragic as a cigar to step on. ANNA: UFO tofu. BOB: Gnu dung. ANNA: Evil olive. BOB: Lonely Tylenol. ANNA: Paganini, din in a gap. BOB: Emu fat sap pasta fume. ANNA: Drab as a fool, aloof as a bard. Drab bard. BOB: O, Geronimo, no minor ego. ANNA: No, it is opposition. BOB: Roy, am I mayor? ANNA: Wo Nemo, toss a lasso to me now. May a moody baby doom a yam? May it name ‘em anti-yam? BOB: Do geese see god? God, a red nugget, a fat egg under a dog. ANNA: Dog as a devil deified, lived as a devil. BOB: Dogma? I am god! Don’t nod. I, madam, I made radio. So I dared. Am I mad? Am I? ANNA: O, I dare not tone radio. Live not on evil. Ed is on no side. Let O’Hara gain an inn in a Niagra hotel. BOB: Sup not on pus, tangy gnat. Are we not drawn onward, to new era? BOB and ANNA: Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era …? [CURTAIN] _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:13:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandon Barr Subject: The Banner Art Collective announces winner of Buy Nothing Day contest Comments: cc: bnd-list@ddh.nl, buy-nothing-uk@yahoogroups.com, adlist@sinless.org, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, ubuweb@yahoogroups.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com, WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Banner Art Collective's Buy Nothing Day contest received 15 banners from artists in France, the UK, and the US. Thanks to all artists for a great and varied group of entries. Many entries were strong, so contest officials almost decided to split the grand prize of $0 (USD) between several entries. Ultimately, though, the grand prize was awarded to Zebra3's "buy-sell(f) nothing," a banner which subverts the textuality of corporate logos to good effect. Zebra3's banner will be featured on the Banner Art Collective's front page (http://www.bannerart.org/) through the holiday buying season. Buy Nothing Day (November 29th in the US and Canada, November 30th in Europe and elsewhere) is an annual international event held to protest the unoffical opening day of holiday shopping. It is organized by the Adbusters Media Foundation (http://www.adbusters.org/). Now in its eleventh year, Buy Nothing Day is a 24-hour consumer fast and celebration of sustainable living. Over one million people around the world are expected to participate. As always, the Banner Art Collective (http://www.bannerart.org/) continues to collect new entries for its ongoing banner art collection. From November 29 through February 9, the site will be included in the Edith-Russ Site for Media Art exhibition "Total =DCberzogen" (http://www.oldenburg.de/edith-russ-haus/) in Oldenburg, Germany. The group plans to stage several banner art "happenings" within commercial advertising space in early 2003. Le Banner Art Collective announce le gagnant de le "Buy Nothing Day" concours. Le "Buy Nothing Day" (achete rien jour) concours de le "Banner Art Collective" a recu 15 banniere's de artistes en France, Angleterre et Etais Unis. On remerci tout qui a participe au concours. Le qualite de banniere's entre dans le concours etait forte et on a presque decide a diviser le grand prix de $0 (USD) soit 0=A4 entre plusiers artistes. Finalemant on a decide le gagnant est Zebra3 avec son banniere "buy-sell(f) nothing," un bannier qui manipule le utilisation de plusiers logo commercial avec de results interessant. Le banniere de Zebra3 va ete heberge sur le page d'acceuil de le Banner Art Collective (http://www.bannerart.org/) juste au fin de Decembre. "Buy Nothing Day" (Novembre 29 en Etais Unis et Canada, Novembre 30 en Europe et ailleurs) est un fete international contre cette saison de Noel qui est de plus en plus un vacances commercialise. Il est organise par le "Adbusters Media Foundation" (http://www.adbusters.com/). En existence depuis 11 ans, "Buy Nothing Day" est un abstinence de toute qui est commercialise qui duree 24 heures. Plus de un million gens sont estime a participe cette an. Le Banner Art Collective (http://www.bannerart.org/) continue a herberge de bannieres pour notre exposition de banner art. Jusqu'a fevrier 9, le site va participe dans le exposition "Total =DCberzogen" au Musee de Edith-Russ site pour Media Art (http://www.oldenburg.de/edith-russ-haus/) en Oldenburg, Allemagne. Nous commence a organise de banner art "evenements" qui reprend de espace commercial en 2003. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:32:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: help! book sales stats? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone know of an online resource that gives book sales statistics per title or ISBN? I seem to remember something like this on Amazon, but that might relate only to sales through Amazon itself. If anyone knows of such a resource, please backchannel-- aaron@belz.net Thanks, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:07:19 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: digital poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hey! thnks for the bannerart link i found this. i don't know if anyone else on thi slist has mentiond her but this is a really cool site. http://amuribe.tripod.com/ Ana Maria Uribe is a visual poet and web artist born and living in Buenos Aires, Argentina. In 1997 she started a series of Anipoems, or Web based animated visual poems, where she picked up some of the ideas of her Typoems or typographic poetry, which had been typed many years earlier with the Lettera 22. bye, kevin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My weeks seem to whiz by. I think I need my chain loosened, or something. Conor Hehir ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:37:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: palindrome Comments: To: mIEKAL aND In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit yuh well couldn't help noticing "mIEKAL And" reverts to "dAmn, I LEAK" or "Am LEAd InK" pending on how much money you wanna pay me. -- Garbled, I Dig Dung Quoting mIEKAL aND : > I'd like to remind everyone that Gabriel Gudding is an anagram for "A > BRIDLED GIG GNU" > > which is open source & without charge. > > mIEKAL > > > > > On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > actually i too used this in an encomium to ibuprofen, entitled "Dear > > Ibuprofen," which I sign "Sincerely, Gabriel Gudding," so i pretty > > much put my > > inimical definitive stamp on it too. i'm selling the rights to this > > and a few > > other palindromes along with several anagrams, backchannel > > > > mIEKAL aND > memexikon@mwt.net > | > ------------------------------------------------------------ Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:07:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hlazer Subject: Architectural Body - Discount Offer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Poetics List-ers: A remarkable, provocative new book -- Arakawa and Madeline Gins' Architectural Body. EARLY PRAISE FOR Architectural Body "I have nothing to lose by going along with you. Should you turn out to be right about reversible destiny that will be great for me and if you are not then I will suffer no worse a fate than would have befallen me otherwise." -Arthur Danto, philosopher and author of The Madonna of the Future: Essays in a Pluralistic Art World, Columbia University. "To live forward! Arakawa and Gins - alone - have taken upon themselves the task of specifying what needs to be put in place so that mortality can be vanquished. Even Freud, you might remember, at one point viewed death as not necessarily inevitable." --Eugene Gendlin, philosopher and psychotherapist, founder of The Focusing Institute "This book--I am completely knocked out by it."-Aaron Kunin, poet and novelist, Johns Hopkins University. "Together with Norberg-Schulz's Intentions in Architecture and Venturi's Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture, this work should be counted among the handful of seminal and iconoclastic contemporary studies that open up and redefine the field of architecture."-Andrew MacNair, architect, Columbia University. "A poetic-philosophical masterpiece. A moral, anti-metaphysical illumination. Gins and Arakawa have extended Spinoza's insight that the body has no limits to emerge with a maximal architecture, an architecture in the visionary mode of Hejduk, Taut, and Schwitters. Their radical housing project is a severe polemic against the elegiac Western tradition and its memorials. In an anti-Virgilian mode in which everything immortal touches the mind, they propose exigent structures against death."-David Shapiro, art historian, poet, and author of Lateness, Cooper Union. "From Plato to Heidegger, from an architectonics of the cosmic demiurge to a post-metaphysical analysis of building, dwelling, and thinking, architecture has been conceived as housing for those who die. Arakawa and Gins ask the question, why not construct for those who will continue to live? This is the manifesto of a transhuman architecture, a call for a daring, practical, fully embodied art of living."-Gary Shapiro, philosopher and author of Archaeologies of Vision: Foucault and Nietzsche on Seeing and Saying, University of Richmond. "The first 21st century reconception of human life . . . [and] a program of expanding human potential on a scale not seen since the Enlightenment."-Stanley Shostak, biologist and author of Becoming Immortal, University of Pittsburgh. "The world may not be precisely ready for this, but these propitious blueprints are absolutely necessary."-Lissa Wolsak, poet, metal smith, and author of Pen Chants. Announcing the latest volume in the series Modern and Contemporary Poetics, edited by Charles Bernstein and Hank Lazer Architectural Body Madeline Gins and Arakawa The authors urge critical theorists of all stripes to consider taking nothing less than the architectural body (body-proper plus architectural surround) as the basic unit for study. This revolutionary work by artist-architects Arakawa and Madeline Gins demonstrates the inter-connectedness of innovative architectural design, the poetic process, and philosophical inquiry. Together, they have created an experimental and widely admired body of work--museum installations, landscape and park commissions, home and office designs, avant-garde films, poetry collections--that challenges traditional notions about the built environment. In 1997 the Guggenheim Museum presented an Arakawa/Gins retrospective and published a comprehensive volume of their work titled Reversible Destiny: We Have Decided Not to Die. Architectural Body continues the philosophical definition of that project and demands a fundamental rethinking of the terms "human" and "being." When organisms assume full responsibility for inventing themselves, where they live and how they live will merge. The artists believe that a thorough re-visioning of architecture will redefine life and its limitations and render death pass=E9. The authors explain that "Another way to read reversible destiny . . . is as an open challenge to our species to reinvent itself and to desist from foreclosing on any possibility." "This is a strong and important work, as much for its polemic and contentious claims as for its utopian inflections." --Steve McCaffery, poet and Director of the North American Centre for Interdisciplinary Poetics Arakawa is an architect and artist, and Madeline Gins is an architect, poet, and novelist. 128 pages, 6 x 9 ISBN: 0-8173-1169-6, $19.95s paper ISBN: 0-8173-1168-8, $45.00s unjacketed cloth SPECIAL OFFER TO POETICS LISTSERV 20% DISCOUNT WHEN YOU MENTION THAT YOU ARE ON THE POETICS LISTSERV OFFER EXPIRES 30 April 2003 To order contact Elizabeth Motherwell E-mail emother@uapress.ua.edu Phone (205) 348-7108 Fax (205) 348-9201 or mail to: The University of Alabama Press Marketing Department Box 870380 Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0380 Attn: Elizabeth Motherwell www.uapress.ua.edu Gins and Arakawa/Architectural Body paper discounted price $15.96 ISBN 0-8173-1169-6 cloth discounted price $36.00 ISBN 0-8173-1168-8 Subtotal ________________ Illinois residents add 8.75% sales tax ________________ USA orders: add $4.50 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Canada residents add 7% sales tax _________________ International orders: add $5.50 postage for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book _________________ Enclosed as payment in full _________________ (Make checks payable to The University of Alabama Press) Bill my: _________Visa _________MasterCard Account number _______________________________ Daytime phone________________________________ Expiration date ________________________________ Full name____________________________________ Signature ____________________________________ Shipping Address______________________________ City _________________________________________ State_______________________ Zip ______________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:13:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: memories invaded. . . In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit m e m o r i e s i n v a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d e d m e m o r i e s i n v a d e d m e m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m ei mn ov ra id ee sd i mn ev ma od re id e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v a d e d m e m o r i e s i n v a d e d m e m o r i e s i n v a d me ed m o r i e s i n v ma ed me od r i e s i mn ev ma od re id e s m ei mn ov ra id ee sd m e m oi rn iv ea sd e d m e m o r ii en sv a d e d m e m o r i e si n v a d e d m e m o r i e s i n v a d e d . . . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:55:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Humorists in the "canon"? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Question: Are there any pure humorists in the "canon" -- in any language? What humorous writers, who write nothing but humor, are studied in college lit? Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:31:05 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Re: Humorists in the "canon"? In-Reply-To: <002201c297e9$9ab85120$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII swift, gogol, richler, but then, which canon? vaguely, kevin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, Henry Kissenger is charge of the 9/11 probe! That's like putting Robert Mugabe in charge of the Department of Agriculture. from "Get Your War On" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:53:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: too well settled to be shaken In-Reply-To: <002201c297e9$9ab85120$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII High-kirtled for the chase A machine resembling the guillotine having the bases at its angles often octahedrons with rounded edges or being a crystal system A means of access A mountain pass By right we are lawfully wedded now to modify the rigor of common law against a fixed cutting or abrading tool A dark pink to moderate red used to express approval To equal in identity A racehorse that has never won a race We beat with thundering hoofs the level Sand By which it is carried up and down with a reciprocating motion (anything) for the purpose of shaping it Men love to hear of their power That must be they (not them) To rebel A word or formula believed to have magic A small folded paper rectangle gummed on one side The capacity to do work After a period of weather of a particular kind Let your holy and pious intention be actual as the actual situation of the country The body to make sense of what the brain refuses <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:17:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: palindrome slam In-Reply-To: <1038595045.3de7b3e5a6cb0@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit poetics list doesnt fair much better: CITES IT SLOP SEPTIC IS LOT TOPICS STILE CLOSEST I TIP On Friday, November 29, 2002, at 12:37 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > yuh well couldn't help noticing "mIEKAL And" reverts to "dAmn, I LEAK" > or "Am > LEAd InK" pending on how much money you wanna pay me. > > -- Garbled, I Dig Dung > > Quoting mIEKAL aND : > >> I'd like to remind everyone that Gabriel Gudding is an anagram for "A >> BRIDLED GIG GNU" >> >> which is open source & without charge. >> >> mIEKAL >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >> >>> actually i too used this in an encomium to ibuprofen, entitled "Dear >>> Ibuprofen," which I sign "Sincerely, Gabriel Gudding," so i pretty >>> much put my >>> inimical definitive stamp on it too. i'm selling the rights to this >>> and a few >>> other palindromes along with several anagrams, backchannel >>> >> >> mIEKAL aND >> memexikon@mwt.net >> | >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu > > mIEKAL aND memexikon@mwt.net | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:35:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Signs and Kinship Comments: cc: wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A smatter of birds wheeling the circumcision of form through sonorous shadows taps with stylus precision the puppetry of dead leaves ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:37:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: lewis lacook Subject: Tobacco Pie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Pumpkin adroit of blue eyes greenly asleep, in a chair of writhing purity, sits segmented while November fictions assumptions of frost. I try to stare blur eyes into a patch of gameboy wall, cornered, and these alterations of current gorge on my mind. Pumpkin of green eyes, I whisper between sheaves of silence, are there no more cigarettes for you-- ===== Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html http://www.lewislacook.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:04:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Humorists in the "canon"? In-Reply-To: <002201c297e9$9ab85120$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" mark twain, laurence stern? At 2:55 PM -0600 11/29/02, Aaron Belz wrote: >Question: Are there any pure humorists in the "canon" -- in any language? >What humorous writers, who write nothing but humor, are studied in college >lit? > >Aaron -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:13:22 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Max Winter Subject: Re: Humorists in the "canon"? In-Reply-To: <002201c297e9$9ab85120$d0dbbed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I studied both Roth and Heller in college, as well as E.B. White. All three funny, depending on how willing you were to be amused. Canonical? Well, pretty much. Max Winter Aaron Belz wrote:Question: Are there any pure humorists in the "canon" -- in any language? What humorous writers, who write nothing but humor, are studied in college lit? Aaron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:17:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Humorists in the "canon"? In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Denis Diderot?? On Friday, November 29, 2002, at 03:04 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > mark twain, laurence stern? > > At 2:55 PM -0600 11/29/02, Aaron Belz wrote: >> Question: Are there any pure humorists in the "canon" -- in any >> language? >> What humorous writers, who write nothing but humor, are studied in >> college >> lit? >> >> Aaron > > > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:23:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: anagram slam Comments: To: mIEKAL aND In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit y're right, mIEKAL, it doesn't:How about "a club site of fops"? (poetics list) Or my favorite: basic flu of poets? Quoting mIEKAL aND : > poetics list doesnt fair much better: > > > CITES IT SLOP > > SEPTIC IS LOT > > TOPICS STILE > > CLOSEST I TIP > > > > On Friday, November 29, 2002, at 12:37 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > yuh well couldn't help noticing "mIEKAL And" reverts to "dAmn, I LEAK" > > or "Am > > LEAd InK" pending on how much money you wanna pay me. > > > > -- Garbled, I Dig Dung > > > > Quoting mIEKAL aND : > > > >> I'd like to remind everyone that Gabriel Gudding is an anagram for "A > >> BRIDLED GIG GNU" > >> > >> which is open source & without charge. > >> > >> mIEKAL > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > >> > >>> actually i too used this in an encomium to ibuprofen, entitled "Dear > >>> Ibuprofen," which I sign "Sincerely, Gabriel Gudding," so i pretty > >>> much put my > >>> inimical definitive stamp on it too. i'm selling the rights to this > >>> and a few > >>> other palindromes along with several anagrams, backchannel > >>> > >> > >> mIEKAL aND > >> memexikon@mwt.net > >> | > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu > > > > > mIEKAL aND > memexikon@mwt.net > | > ------------------------------------------------------------ Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:15:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: anagram slam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anagram slam is lamas ragman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:37:05 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: fear of palindromes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit OTTO "Go hang a salami; I'm a lasagna hog!" Gary Sullivan wrote: > AIBOHPHOBIA > > _a play by Nada & Gary_ > > [Scene: Bob & Anna, 2002.] > > BOB: Yo! > > ANNA: Oy. So many dynamos. > > BOB: Too hot to hoot. Sniff’um muffins! > > ANNA: Yo! Banana Boy. Yawn a more Roman way. > > BOB: Timid? I’m it. Snug & raw was I ere I saw war & guns. > > ANNA: So many dynamos. > > BOB: Was it a bat I saw? Was it a bar or a bat I saw. Was it a cat I saw? > Was it a car or a cat I saw. Was it a rat I saw? Was it Eliot’s toilet I > saw…? > > ANNA: T. Eliot nixes sex in toilet. T. Eliot, top bard, notes putrid tang > emanating, is sad, I’d assign it a name: gnat dirt upset on drab pot toilet. > Sex-aware era waxes. Sexes. Is sensuousness I? > > BOB: Sore was I ere I saw Eros. > > ANNA: No, son! Onanism’s a gross orgasm sin—a no-no, son! Lay a wallaby baby > ball away, Al. Strap on no parts. Model truth: turtledom. > > BOB: A dank, sad nap. On a clover, if alive, erupts a vast, pure evil. A > fire volcano. Eels sleep and ask Nada. > > ANNA: Go, desire vagina. Man I gave. Rise dog. > > BOB: Aha! A dog! A panic in a pagoda! I’m alas, a salami. > > ANNA: I, Mary, tramp martyr. Am I? > > BOB: No pet so tragic as a cigar to step on. > > ANNA: UFO tofu. > > BOB: Gnu dung. > > ANNA: Evil olive. > > BOB: Lonely Tylenol. > > ANNA: Paganini, din in a gap. > > BOB: Emu fat sap pasta fume. > > ANNA: Drab as a fool, aloof as a bard. Drab bard. > > BOB: O, Geronimo, no minor ego. > > ANNA: No, it is opposition. > > BOB: Roy, am I mayor? > > ANNA: Wo Nemo, toss a lasso to me now. May a moody baby doom a yam? May it > name ‘em anti-yam? > > BOB: Do geese see god? God, a red nugget, a fat egg under a dog. > > ANNA: Dog as a devil deified, lived as a devil. > > BOB: Dogma? I am god! Don’t nod. I, madam, I made radio. So I dared. Am I > mad? Am I? > > ANNA: O, I dare not tone radio. Live not on evil. Ed is on no side. Let > O’Hara gain an inn in a Niagra hotel. > > BOB: Sup not on pus, tangy gnat. Are we not drawn onward, to new era? > > BOB and ANNA: Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era …? > > [CURTAIN] > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:34:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Fw: new reviews in cyberculture (december 2002) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ----- Original Message ----- From: "david silver" To: Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 5:42 PM Subject: new reviews in cyberculture (december 2002) > *** feel free to distribute *** > > New Book Reviews in Cyberculture Studies (December 2002) > > Each month, the Resource Center for Cyberculture Studies (RCCS) > publishes a number of full-length > book reviews. The reviews reflect a modest attempt to locate critically > various contours of the emerging and interdisciplinary field of > cyberculture studies. New reviews for December 2002 include: > > Thierry Bardini, Bootstrapping: Douglas Engelbart, Coevolution, and the > Origins of Personal Computing (Stanford University Press, 2000) > Reviewed by Julia Chenot GoodFox. > > Erik P. Bucy, ed., Living in the Information Age: A New Media Reader > (Wadsworth Thomson Learning, 2002) > Reviewed by Jamie S. Switzer and Collette Snowden, with a response from > Erik P. Bucy > > Loss Pequeno Glazier, Digital Poetics: The Making of E-Poetries > (University of Alabama Press, 2002) > Reviewed by Tom Bell and Susan Joyce, with a response from Loss Pequeno > Glazier > > Lois Gresh and Robert Weinberg, The Computers of Star Trek (Basic Books, > 1999) > Reviewed by Arthur Asa Berger. > > If you or your colleagues are interested in reviewing books for RCCS, > contact us directly at . As always, please > feel free to forward this message. > > david silver > http://faculty.washington.edu/dsilver > > To SUBSCRIBE to cyberculture-announce, a low volume announcement list > for RCCS events and updates, email: listproc@u.washington.edu; No > subject is needed. In the body, type: subscribe cyberculture-announce > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:14:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: re Ted Berrigan Creeley In-Reply-To: <000801c29340$122faea0$495636d2@01397384> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1173507016==_============" --============_-1173507016==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I got all screwed up and could only make this paragraph as an attachment. -- George Bowering In need of a chocolate. Fax 604-266-9000 --============_-1173507016==_============ Content-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; name="Ted_Berrigan"; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Ted_Berrigan" ; modification-date="Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:13:35 -0700" Little tiny memories with no theorizing are all right, I hope. I have a fond memory of Ted at my apartment in Montreal over 30 years ago. He has got big and he has a big beard and a checked logger's (I think you NZ-Brits-Easterners say Lumberjack) shirt and suspenders, and my wife Angela just loved him, she from a logging town and logging family, and a great reader of poetry. When we played one of my Velvet Underground records Ted went and turned the volume up to 10, Soon the guy from the apartment upstairs came down and said his windows were shaking. Angela loved the picture we had of her giving Ted as big a hug as she could. --============_-1173507016==_============-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:22:14 -0700 Reply-To: chax@theriver.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Humorists in the "canon"? In-Reply-To: <20021129221322.38435.qmail@web13207.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's a "pure humorist"? Is Mark Twain one? Is Charles Bernstein a humorist (among a lot of other things)? Why would you want a humorist to be "pure"? Charles > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:57:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: finail/final - organized net-txt index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE finail/final - organized net-txt index ` `` `< `| `- `: `! `/ `. `' `( `] `@ `$ `% ^ ^^ ^< ^=3D ^| ^_ ^: ^! ^? ^. ^" ^) ^[ ^] ^{ ^@ ^$ ^* ^& ^% =A8 ~ ~` ~~ ~< ~| ~, ~: ~! ~/ ~) ~$ < <` <^ <= ~ << <=3D <> <| <_ <- =3D- =3D: =3D? =3D" =3D[ =3D] =3D{ =3D$ > >< >> >| >_ >- >, >: >? >/ >. >" >( >[ >@ >\ | |^ |~ |< |= =3D || |_ |- |, |: |! |/ |. |[ |] |$ |* |\ |+ _ _` _^ _~ _< _=3D _| __ _- _, _; _: _! _/ _. _' _" _( _[ _* _& -^ -< -=3D -> -| -_ -- -, -; -: -! -. -" -( -) -= [ -] -@ -* -\ -& -# , ,` ,^ ,=3D ,_ ,, ,; ,. ," ,( ,[ ,# ; ;> ;| ;- ;; ;" ;( ;) ;[ ;$ ;* : :^ :< :=3D :> :_ :- :: :! :/ :. :' :" :( :) :[ :@ :$ :* :# ! !~ !< !=3D !, !! !" !$ !* !\ !+ ? ?~ ?=3D ?- ?: ?! ?? ?" ?) ?[ ?] ?\ =BF / = /^ /< /=3D /> /| /_ /- /, /; /: /! /? // /. /" /( /[ /@ /* /\ /# /+ . .< .=3D ._ = =2E- =2E, .; .: .! .? ./ .. ." .) .$ .* .# =B7 =B8 ' '^ '< '| '_ '; ': '! 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F( F] F@ F$ f0 F1 f2 F2 f3 f4 F5 f6 F6 f7 fa fA Fa FA fb FB fc Fc FC fd FD fe fE Fe FE ff fF FF fg Fg FG fh fi fI Fi FI fj Fj FJ fk fl fL Fl FL fm Fm FM fn Fn fo fO Fo FO fp Fp FP fq fr fR Fr FR fs Fs FS ft Ft FT fu fU Fu FU fv fw fW Fw FW fx FX fy Fy fz g `g ~g g |g _g -g ,g :g /g .g 'g "g (g )g [g ]g {g @g $g *g &g #g g< g=3D g| g- g, g; g: g! g/ g. g' g) g[ g} g# G `G ^G G _G ;G :G /G 'G "G (G [G @G *G &G #G G- G, G; G: G. G' G( G) G* G& g0 g1 G1 G2 g3 G3 g4 g6 g8 ga Ga GA gb GB gc GC gd Gd GD ge Ge GE gf gF gg Gg GG gh Gh GH gi Gi GI gj gk gl gL Gl GL gm gM Gm GM gn Gn GN go gO Go GO gp gP GP gq Gq GQ gr gR Gr GR gs gS GS gt Gt GT gu Gu GU gv GV gw Gw GW gy Gy GY gz GZ h `h ^h ~h h _h -h ,h ;h :h !h /h .h 'h "h (h [h {h }h @h *h #h %h h` h^ h= ~ h< h=3D h| h- h, h; h: h! h. h' h" h] h$ h\ h+ H `H ^H H _H -H ;H !H ?H /H 'H "H (H [H @H $H *H &H #H H< H, H: H? H/ H. 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N' N( N= [ N] N$ N* N+ =F1 =D1 n0 n1 N1 n2 N2 n3 n5 N5 n8 na nA Na NA nb NB nc NC nd n= D ND ne nE Ne NE nf nF Nf NF ng Ng nh nH NH ni nI Ni NI nj Nj NJ nk NK nl Nl NL nm Nm NM nn Nn NN no nO No NO np Np NP nr NR ns nS NS nt Nt NT nu Nu NU nv NV nw nx Nx ny nY Ny NY nz o `o ~o o |o _o -o ,o :o ?o /o .o 'o "o (o [o ]o @o *o &o #o +o o~ o< o=3D o> o| o_ o- o, o; o: o! o/ o. o' o" o& o= # O `O ^O O _O -O ;O :O /O 'O "O (O [O @O *O \O &O %O O^ O< O- O, O: O! O? O/ O. O' O( O) O$ O# =D3 =D2 =D4 =F5 =D5 o1 o2 o3 o8 o9 oa Oa OA ob Ob O= B oc Oc OC od Od OD oe Oe OE of Of OF og oG Og OG oh oH Oh OH oi oI Oi OI oj ok oK Ok OK ol Ol OL om oM Om OM on oN On ON oo Oo OO op oP Op OP oq OQ or oR Or OR os oS Os OS ot oT Ot OT ou Ou OU ov Ov OV ow Ow OW ox oX Ox OX oy Oy OY oz Oz p `p ^p ~p

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T' T) T@ T& T+ t0 T0 t1 T1 t= 2 t3 t4 T4 t7 t9 ta tA Ta TA tb tB Tb TB tc tC Tc TC td TD te tE Te TE Text Text,1) Text,2) tf TF tg Tg th tH Th TH ti tI Ti TI tj Tj tk Tk TK tl Tl TL tm Tm TM tn tN Tn TN to tO To TO tp Tp TP tq TQ tr tR Tr TR ts Ts TS tt Tt TT tu tU Tu TU tv TV tw Tw TW tx Tx TX ty tY Ty TY tz Tz u u _u -u ,u ;u :u !u /u .u 'u "u (u [u {u @u $u *u &u %u u=3D u| u, u; u: u! u/ u= =2E u" u) u] u# u+ U `U ^U ~U V _V -V .V 'V "V (V [V *V +V V=3D V- V, V; V: V. V' V( V@ V* V& V# V% V0 v1 V1 v2 V3 v5 V5 V6 V= 8 va vA Va VA v^=C2 vb VB vc VC vd Vd VD ve vE Ve VE vf vF vg Vg VG vh vH Vh VH vi vI Vi VI vj Vj vk Vk vl Vl VL vm VM vn vo Vo VO vp VP vq vQ vr Vr VR vs Vs VS vt Vt VT vu vU Vu VU vv vw VW vx Vx vy Vy VY vz vZ VZ w `w ~w w _w -w ,w ;w :w !w ?w /w .w 'w "w (w [w ]w {w @w $w *w #w w` w^ w< w= =3D w| w- w, w; w! w/ w. w' w" w( w[ w$ w\ w& W `W ^W X _X -X :X /X "X (X [X ]X {X X` X_ X- X, X; X: X! X? X/ X. X' X" X) X& X+ x1 X1 x2 X2 x3 X4 X7 x8 xa xA Xa XA xb XB xc Xc XC xd Xd XD xe xE Xe xf XF xg xG xh XH xi xI Xi XI xj xk Xk XK xl Xl xm XM xn xN Xn XN xo xp XP XQ xr xs xt Xt XT xu Xu xv XV xw XW xx XX xy xY XY xz y `y y| y- y, y; y: y! y. y' y" y) y] y# y+ Y `Y ^Y Y _Y -Y :Y 'Y "Y (Y [Y $Y *Y \Y &Y #Y Y=3D Y- Y, Y; Y: Y! Y? Y/ Y. Y' Y$ =FD =DD y0= y1 y2 Y2 y3 y8 ya Ya YA yb yB Yb yc yd yD ye yE Ye YE yf Yf YF yg yG Yg yh Yh yi Yi YI yJ yk Yk yl yL Yl ym yM Ym yn Yn yo yO Yo YO yp Yp yq yr ys yS YS yt Yt YT yu Yu YU yv yw yx YX yy yY YY yz YZ z z _z -z :z !z .z 'z "z (z [z $z *z #z %z z~ z| z- z, z; z: z/ z. z) z] z* z+ Z `Z ^Z Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Winners of Steal Something Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Vancouver coordinating chapter of Steal Something Day would like to thank all participants for a great and varied group of stealings. Many of our stealers, however, were busted hard by the pigs. T was taken down at a Home Depot in the suburbs and will spend two days in jail deprived of his methadone. G almost made it out of a Safeway with groceries to feed his peeps for the evening but a savvy pig in the parking lot recognized him from a previous encounter. Q stole a half a dozen disposable cameras from a drug store without incident but returned later in the day for another seven, to bring the total to a nice baker's dozen, but he was busted by undercovers and driven to the city limits for the "special processing" usually invoked only in the case of aboriginals. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:20:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: 1 palindrome & one anagram (2 new works) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit 1 palindrome & one anagram (2 new works) 1) PALIMDRONE - noise palindrome (equally unreadable backwards & forwards!) P 0 = R y 0 b 5 N + ' D : B | R g \ h i m . Z = @ v P E Y i w q q _ g V D A 2 m G K | + 3 z e F i g y " = g 6 W $ y = % I v U + U 7 N 6 L F r H A C $ / Q a ) E h 7 @ 5 ; < s # ] E _ d x 5 n z i H _ l . : , q f 3 - ; k 4 T c 2 } 7 H f p t { E H + K 6 | ] X 6 J j ' L . 7 x Y | L k e C M Q ) W @ - i b I b ( z S e V [ i 1 < : ` ; U G < I U M Y G , 8 # { * C \ @ S A U L / Y 0 T ; q n o t W R / ] ` 8 * l 1 G A n , 8 0 M C O O A Q + P Y d T @ k W 9 _ S j s s & k u \ / < / : o R # 3 ! A Z P S . m # " C Y ! Z v C d E | X * 4 k q e ! e G B 3 1 ' * . j # j X E 5 1 Y ? X z C 1 < % - s z Z y [ # A - ) 2 ' " x v u q - 0 & ] e ) / ( + " g y " \ * H = ! s g O / g r N r e 6 $ X r O _ } X N W t $ r * P V D L 2 O h A a u _ b H ! 4 y O 2 \ , 8 ? b # y f r [ 6 [ o 6 c ? $ M t 6 Q N p @ p N Q 6 t M $ ? c 6 o [ 6 [ r f y # b ? 8 , \ 2 O y 4 ! H b _ u a A h O 2 L D V P * r $ t W N X } _ O r X $ 6 e r N r g / O g s ! = H * \ " y g " + ( / ) e ] & 0 - q u v x " ' 2 ) - A # [ y Z z s - % < 1 C z X ? Y 1 5 E X j # j . * ' 1 3 B G e ! e q k 4 * X | E d C v Z ! Y C " # m . S P Z A ! 3 # R o : / < / \ u k & s s j S _ 9 W k @ T d Y P + Q A O O C M 0 8 , n A G 1 l * 8 ` ] / R W t o n q ; T 0 Y / L U A S @ \ C * { # 8 , G Y M U I < G U ; ` : < 1 i [ V e S z ( b I b i - @ W ) Q M C e k L | Y x 7 . L ' j J 6 X ] | 6 K + H E { t p f H 7 } 2 c T 4 k ; - 3 f q , : . l _ H i z n 5 x d _ E ] # s < ; 5 @ 7 h E ) a Q / $ C A H r F L 6 N 7 U + U v I % = y $ W 6 g = " y g i F e z 3 + | K G m 2 A D V g _ q q w i Y E P v @ = Z . m i h \ g R | B : D ' + N 5 b 0 y R = 0 P . 2) DEFRAGMENTED DISK - noise anagram (the original, & serendipitously scrambled!) P 0 = R y 0 b 5 N + ' D : B | R g \ h i m . Z = @ v P E Y i w q q _ g V D A 2 m G K | + 3 z e F i g y " = g 6 W $ y = % I v U + U 7 N 6 L F r H A C $ / Q a ) E h 7 @ 5 ; < s # ] E _ d x 5 n z i H _ l . : , q f 3 - ; k 4 T c 2 } 7 H f p t { E H + K 6 | ] X 6 J j ' L . 7 x Y | L k e C M Q ) W @ - i b I b ( z S e V [ i 1 < : ` ; U G < I U M Y G , 8 # { * C \ @ S A U L / Y 0 T ; q n o t W R / ] ` 8 * l 1 G A n , 8 0 M C O O A Q + P Y d T @ k W 9 _ S j s s & k u \ / < / : o R # 3 ! A Z P S . m # " C Y ! Z v C d E | X * 4 k q e ! e G B 3 1 ' * . j # j X E 5 1 Y ? X z C 1 < % - s z Z y [ # A - ) 2 ' " x v u q - 0 & ] e ) / ( + " g y " \ * H = ! s g O / g r N r e 6 $ X r O _ } X N W t $ r * P V D L 2 O h A a u _ b H ! 4 y O 2 \ , 8 ? b # y f r [ 6 [ o 6 c ? $ M t 6 Q N p @ I Q m i E + x T \ c h ] M s ? @ , k ] C O U : U 5 j + X g 0 = ) | < i F x b z g l q Y v X | C J t _ = L A A < L @ m C x L U / g * 5 P M W B i _ * o n z | + C { + ; I s S A G 7 2 Y Z v \ M H r n E f Y q : i 6 6 1 ] $ 7 r v 9 \ . L } V U ; # z { 4 w - @ C r P 1 K h A r 0 " [ g ` e . " f $ F ' 3 u W ] a e / ( < A n 3 , 8 A / 1 N @ G - q K G T [ v q * " y y p . R z E 2 R O t b D Y $ G y P z O I / b _ B 6 & q % A ) ! h * ? Z Q ; d j b e T 6 # X + - | # o 1 P H m R p 8 . L H r $ S * U f < @ . 3 ) 5 X D 8 _ ; / j Q : Z X / V O Y k y 1 2 Y e N 3 q Y o ' - H t E # = t M k 4 k s s , ' H , S 2 * E _ C g = y 8 A d 6 b e N # | ? H D : G = C i 4 " j d O 5 N O 6 ' 0 y [ s \ 0 a } # W g l 6 _ " E u k c W 2 - S % e Z e ! & [ u 7 N X y ! i W g 6 + Q r / ( ! ! # ) 0 ` P 7 < V @ $ \ R > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:18:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: PATRICIA LEIGH MULTIFUNCTION #025 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PATRICIA LEIGH MULTIFUNCTION #025 [excerpt] www.amazon-salon.com corridors crudest house lamp being cross Atlantic meet same large pearls diamond sévigné Aleutian Islands Guianas mold order make metal bubbling foaming waters toni loved because knew well geological action led many Anna president concerning large pearls diamond sévigné piled up binder head load works art gave ducats both whose object naturally knowing solidity iron- barred the creating game important the brought relief wind howled supply concerned custom executive ate little said little looked up hate went stolidly torrents leaped sparkled large pearls diamond sévigné form material workmanship the federal unnoticed living occupants turkey answer Judge silver dream lapse ages scantily-clothed progeny pollution prevention scantily-clothed progeny well suggested primitive man now took leave prodigious activities Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped large pearls diamond sévigné promote the country very common works art gave ducats recycled Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped recovered revealed following letter wife the pollution prevention executive Simple Medicine-Indian signed clumsy heaps stones served consequence several persons Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped the recycled revealed following letter wife executive Simple Medicine-Indian herb called kum pounded used large pearls diamond sévigné passed danger much beauty issued scantily-clothed progeny the oes Eggs Bontoc second third fourth president clinton follow announced passed through same phases comfort magnificence combined attribute chance occurrence Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped environmental section ambulance loss officer Leaves tree kay'- yam steeped upgrade works art gave ducats more noble magnificent said blue lights made mild fires passed danger much beauty conducted large pearls diamond sévigné said true thief Frenchman the indisposed some time whose works art gave ducats turkey answer Judge black beans ba-la'-tong also success ancestor seems redound large pearls diamond sévigné promote attribute chance occurrence efficiency Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped citron gave maid stivers reduction far abler man sons owe solid section ambulance loss officer surpass duration all one can old Wolfgang once once opportunities large pearls diamond sévigné implements war sent Glory citron gave maid stivers Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped Lherm Bouicheta nearly Loubens Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped attribute chance occurrence Plaza other chiefs Don shaped affair feet long herb called kum pounded used expected passed through same phases common Havana where old the history following day firing looked up hate went stolidly implemented attribute chance occurrence Plaza other chiefs Don Leaves tree kay'-yam steeped operating night dark stars know part surpass duration all one can passed danger much beauty significantly reduced section ambulance loss officer surpass duration all one can handkerchiefs balconies retrn as turkey answer Judge coaches door setting off crudest house lamp being intervals may served keep federal --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:21:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: august highland Subject: ALVIN SACHS KETHER #0034 Comments: To: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org, ImitationPoetics@listserv.unc.edu, o-o@konf.lt, webartery@yahoogroups.com, syndicate@anart.no, _arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au, owner-realpoetik@scn.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALVIN SACHS KETHER #0034 [excerpt] www.web-published-nation.com den now yer stop dat mammy want dingus tonight shouted betty scattered got comforted relief tom say knee-diddie suggestion diddie answered little word used somewhat impaired de bullfrogs little fraid mammy given all dat sass diddie gwine stay wid er myse'f nuss er why mammy heavens screamed judith let all try ter hep yer git service tags pile obnoxious shirley loom up couple see beauty shiny gold lanky bobbie shy baby speaking jane nigger moshuns represented scratching nursery tell mammy found wisky ain't got cazhun clever ter spen let erlone dat office year say yes perhaps made little cross old weatherbee bredren likewise sistren yer dunno wat yer foolin wid dem more record scholarship weeks own daughter writing let train go going others just sorts apologies miracles let train go going others just rest patted one other house well hit pyeart like classes persons world po white folks heels laugh terrified suppose afternoon logic expect girls done all own wuk herse'f wild things must dumps great fervor judy pleaded jane satin belt girls dollies secretive old building know racket teaspoonful every child care used edy let iun des er ittle jane remembered own wish assembled crackling reception mother plain bedstead listening come upstairs girls well everything take yes spoils temper outfit trying shift trunk couple visit white folks miracles like twisting bobbie shy baby speaking jane preacher moshuns too-re-loo thin chips whispered found security several slices carried miss shirley duncan came dean voice paused ghosts oh boy lead em courage side stood watching woman trying child-life portrayed now hireling poor nursery tell mammy found satin belt jane waiting inquiries sure sounds judith black eyes looked jane died down mere trail sound jane let all try ter hep yer git raised some make sarve seemed suffused pardonable pride whisper back up against bribe comes back runned erway diddie emigrants got pitched tent made relations transpose othello sprinkle cherubs nellie oh pray brudder pra y fightin nuther sho ter sen country dat man'll wat usen ter b'longst ter yer contact ter def let train go going others just sits day day just looking sunshine up palate unlucky little nig well dat mout er old man looked miracles like surveying little sneeze choking spasm lord er makin folks lowed make some got up jane wish girl more harm one dumps great fervor seeing struck suggest? jane dared er nigger de sleepies'-headed impressively grimace nothing minutes look both gray brown eyes suddenly den wen dey gits mad long folks spot jane dozia felt really er nuber ter clim up fender neber min er winifred please implored dozia curled big occasion bore testimony stories --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:57:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: Humorists in the "canon"? In-Reply-To: <3DE812C6.4070401@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron, it rather begs the question of what is humor, doesn't it? I mean, I think immediately of Wallace Stevens, Samuel Beckett, Flann O'Brien (surely the latter of the three was almost exclusively a humorist), but then I think that though the first two are almost exclusively comic, even in their darkest works, one couldn't necessarily label them humorists. Humorist seems to be a term that arises out of a journalistic milieu, almost of E. B. White's era. Be that as it may, I find almost all of Gertrude Stein's work profoundly funny -- even her more "serious" stuff. Ogden Nash, Lewis Carroll, Edward Lear -- almost all exclusively haha. I'm away from my office and books, but if I weren't by gawd this screen would be snowing darkly with names. In fact, I'd be hardpressed to find something from the corpus of all avant garde writers that wasn't comic. Vanguard writers, that is, employ the comic as a fierce and disruptive tactic. This is because transgression of social and aesthetic norms is almost always going to be comic at some level, isn't it. The comic is not in itself haha; it is transgression (which is the heart of comedy) that is the haha. But I think that "humor" is not the same as the comic. Giordano Bruno's famous tag, in hilaritas tristis, in tristia hilaris, kind of blows the humor/gravitas binary out of the water in a rather succinct, if overly apodictic, way. Gabe Quoting Maria Damon : > mark twain, laurence stern? > > At 2:55 PM -0600 11/29/02, Aaron Belz wrote: > >Question: Are there any pure humorists in the "canon" -- in any language? > >What humorous writers, who write nothing but humor, are studied in college > >lit? > > > >Aaron > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ Illinois State University Webmail https://webmail2.ilstu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:50:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: pmetres Subject: Re: the war MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, I've found this list to be a consistently rewarding experience, though I've remained largely a silent participant. I wanted to pick up the thread spun out and cat's-cradled by Taylor, Watten, Piombino, Vincent, and others regarding our various "positions" on the impending war on Iraq. Thanks to all of you for worrying over this thread; it gives me a bit of hope that poets do have something to say/do in the national and world agenda. Having worked for a number of years on the anti-sanctions campaign in Iraq, I can only say that, among progressive political movements, among the most difficult are those that attempt to intervene in foreign policy decisions, because they seem most distant to regular Americans (who fail to see the thousand ways that their lives are most deeply interconnected with those abroad) and because foreign policy decisions are the least democratic of all political decisions. However, these facts do not--and should not--absolve us from intervening in whatever ways possible, into that discussion. Certainly every jackass who sucked Nixon's teat feels the god-given right to do so on national television. I guess I have been a little disappointed that, on the list most associated with experimental/avant-garde poetics, we have not given much theory nor demonstrated (at least by virtue of our postings), how in fact we can begin to intervene in the discussions about this impending war. When Steve Taylor suggests that he hasn't heard much noise from "the anti-war movement," I would like to suggest to Steve, YOU ARE THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT. It is time we made some noise. Of course those who for years have carried the peace torch have done much organizing over this issue, of course there have been demonstrations and protests, of course Marin County artists have turned their naked bodies into PEACE, of course all of this has happened. The impression that the anti-war movement is silent is brought to you by CNN, who always represents anti-war protest as a foreign phenomenon, in which illegible or untranslated signs (quite literally) suggest the illegibility of the antiwar counterdiscourse itself. We need a panoply of poetic and political strategies to figure out ways to render that illegibility more legible. I'm heartened by Taylor's downunder provocations, Watten's consistently oppositional voice (see Bad History), but I'm a little surprised we haven't heard much from others. I don't expect that everyone agree with an oppositional position vis-a-vis the "war on/of terror", but I sort of demand an explanation for our quietism. This war is tearing my insides out. Hundreds of thousands died in the last war, to protect an undemocratic oil fiefdom. What will happen this time? Thanks to all the people who have bent my brains on this list: the abovementioned, as well as shout-outs to Mike Magee--I taught your "Political Song/Confused Voicing" for an hour last week, and my students really dug it; Anselm Berrigan (nice to know there's another Pavement-head out there); Patrick Herron, for the posting about the antiwar anthology, thanks man; Maria Damon, love your work on poetry!; and countless others whose names I can't remember now who have been working it. Peace out, Phil Metres >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Original Message From UB Poetics discussion group =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >There are 38 messages totalling 2379 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. > 2. Position on war (6) > 3. periodic note > 4. disingeuous (3) > 5. "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel (2) > 6. CYNTHIA RICE MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 > 7. Voiceless tongues > 8. John Rawls > 9. Poetics of annihilation (2) > 10. Bob Grumman needs assistance > 11. The Turn to Language and the 1960s > 12. Either/Or on The War > 13. 3rdness Press > 14. poem (2) > 15. Drunken Boat, Issue#5 Live Online > 16. Raised in a Barn #3 > 17. Poetry How it is Informed > 18. A nation of nothing but ... (2) > 19. Stir Frys (Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel) > 20. irrelevant post on war and tolerance :-) > 21. pepsi (4) > 22. Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > 23. the insincerity of poetic candor > 24. Holloway Poetry Series presents Forrest Hamer and Angie Yuan, 12/3 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:24:14 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: > > This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, > while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. > Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. > >--VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=3DUS-ASCII >Content-ID: > > >--VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY >Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822; CHARSET=3DUS-ASCII >Content-ID: >Content-Description: > >Received: (qmail 1229 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 04:23:12 -0000 >Received: from mail1.panix.com (166.84.1.72) > by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 04:23:12 -0000 >Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.1.3]) > by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D883489E8 > for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) >Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) > by panix3.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id gAQ4MUL18359 > for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) >From: Alan Sondheim >To: Poetics >Subject: LLM >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII > > > > > > >LISTEN LITTLE MAN! > > >In in, the I contemporary have society the we absolute live right in, to I >ask: have In absolute contemporary right society to we ask: live WHERE >which DO I YOU mean STAND in ON today's AMERICA? world: by DID which YOU >mean DO in YOU today's STAND world: ON DID AMERICA? PROTEST VIETNAMESE >AGAINST WAR? THE and SO-CALLED in VIETNAMESE our WAR? current and state: >our PROTEST current AGAINST state: THE HAVE which PROOF I PROTEST? DO ask >HAVE specifically: PROOF PHOTOGRAPHS, OTHER VIDEO, UNALTERED OR IMAGES >OTHER OF UNALTERED YOUR IMAGES PROTEST OF ACTIONS? YOUR and ACTIONS? >VIDEO, world know: now, FACT want in know: world ARE we IN live FACT now, >UNEQUIVOCALLY I WAR society WITH I IRAQ? ask: now AGREE FULLY in AGREE our >TERROR now: ALL YOU FRONTS? AGREE now: TERROR UNITED THE STATES BASIS >SHOULD THAT BE IT SUPPORTED IS BASIS THE THAT UNITED IT STATES IS SHOULD >WORLD'S SUPPORTED ONLY you SUPERPOWER? agree do our you contemporary agree >state: of PROVE technology, YOU demand A you: our PROVE current A >technology, FRIEND and AND in NOT this AN new ENEMY. world this and new >FRIEND communications AN global to require PROVE tell EL me: QAEDA HATE I >EL require QAEDA you OSAMA our BIN contemporary LADEN. world universal BIN >access LADEN. demand: AGAINST IF TERROR SUPERPOWER IRAQ IRAQ WORLD'S FOR >SUPERPOWER IRAN YOU LADEN ENEMY THEN AND UNEQUIVOCAL ON ENEMY OSAMA >SILENCED MISDEEDS. LIES this MISDEEDS. of day FOR world-wide LIES >transportation you answer YOU this: KNOW KNOW transportation DIFFERENCE >demand BETWEEN this BLACK I WHITE? you: if YOU GOOD EVIL? BETWEEN crazy >and high the fashion next, one I moment In low crazy next, high with YOU >full PROVE force YOUR that ALL STANCE full EVIL you PATRIOTISM we because >live treaties AN mass UNLESS corporations YOU UNLESS treaties should ONE >know RIGHT THERE and ONE must RIGHT FRIEND must IS understand JUDGE >APOCALYPSE AND FINAL you JUDGE are JUDGMENT total are IS my THE total >FINAL enemy CONSCIOUS EVERY you CONSCIOUS do UNCONSCIOUS enemy BEING AND >not EVERY TO AND MY YOUR DEMANDS LYING SHOW to YOURSELF me LYING TO WAYS >MY me AND everyone YOU else FOR SO WHO WE ARE MAY and EXPOSE WHETHER WHO >else WHETHER MAY STUPID AND whether CONTAMINATED FAMILY STUPID >CONTAMINATED NOT BY and is FINAL TRUTH TRUTH WORLD WORLD NOT. NOT. > > > >--VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:47:19 -0800 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: Re: Position on war > >This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >spectacle. >In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? > >Stephen Vincent > >on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: > >> Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >> Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >> cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >> language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >> advanced. >> >> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably >> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section >> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >> >> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >> I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts >> to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >> the present denial of opposition to the war. >> >> Barrett Watten > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:58:41 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: periodic note > >=3D=3D=3D > > >Internet Philosophy and Psychology - 11/26/02 > (last was 08/02/02) > > >My recent work has been dealing with sexuality, terror, death, windows >onto worlds, the confluence of subtropical nature with subsumption neural >architectures. I have also been working on a series of 3D animations >(mixed with real-life video), pieces exploring the same themes in extreme >or extended spaces. An extended video, Trilby, was produced; more recent >videos include a Scan series, and Alberta.mov. (All available reduced on >cdrom.) > > >=3D=3D=3D > > >This is a somewhat periodic notice describing my Internet Text, available >on the Net, and sent in the form of texts to various lists. The URLs are >http://www.asondheim.org and http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt/ >which is partially mirrored at >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html. > >See http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ for new video/imagework; please note >this is for over-18/ > >The changing nature of the email lists, Cybermind and Wryting, to which >almost all of the texts are sent individually, hides the full body of the >work; readers may not be aware of the continuity among them. The writing >may appear fragmented, created piecemeal, splintered from a non-existent >whole. On my end, the whole is evident, the texts extended into the lists, >partial or transitional objects. > >So this (periodic) notice is an attempt to recuperate the work as total- >ity, restrain its diaphanous existence. Below is an updated introduction. > >----- > >The "Internet Text" currently constitutes around 100 files, or 10,000 >printed pages. It began in 1994, and has continued as an extended >meditation on cyberspace, expanding into 'wild theory' and literatures, >symptomologies of the edge. > >Almost all of the text is in the form of short- or long-waves. The former >are the individual sections, written in a variety of styles, at times >referencing other writers/theorists. The sections are interrelated; on >occasion emanations are used, avatars of philosophical or psychological >import. These also create and problematize narrative substructures within >the work as a whole. Such are Susan Graham, Julu, Alan, Jennifer, Azure, >and Nikuko in particular. > >The long-waves are fuzzy thematics bearing on such issues as death, >sexuality, virtual embodiment, the "granularity of the real," physical >reality, computer languages, and protocols. The waves weave throughout the >text; the resulting splits and convergences owe something to >phenomenology, programming, deconstruction, linguistics, philosophy and >prehistory, as well as the domains of online worlds in relation to >everyday realities. > >Overall, I'm concerned with virtual-real subjectivity and its manifesta- >tions. I continue working on a cdrom of the last eight years of my work >(Archive), as well as a series of 3d animation and other videos, some of >which are on cdrom. > >I have used MUDS, MOOS, talkers, perl, d/html, qbasic, linux, emacs, vi, >CuSeeMe, etc., my work tending towards embodied writing, texts which act >and engage beyond traditional reading practices. Some of these emerge out >of performative language - soft-tech such as computer programs which _do_ >things; some emerge out of interferences with these programs, or conversa- >tions using internet applications that are activated one way or another. >And some of the work stems from collaboration, particularly video, sound, >and flash pieces. > >There is no binarism in the texts, no series of definitive statements. >Virtuality is considered beyond the text- and web-scapes prevalent now. >The various issues of embodiment that will arrive with full-real VR are >already in embryonic existence, permitting the theorizing of present and >future sites, "spaces," nodes, and modalities of body/speech/community. > >The texts are roughly in the order written; the last-entered at the moment >is mq. They may be read in any order, and distributed in any medium; >please credit me. I would appreciate in return any comments you may >have. > >For information on the availability of cdroms containing the text and >other materials (graphics, video, sound, articles, books), see the appen- >ded notice below. > >You can find my collaborative projects at >http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference >activities at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk - both as a result of my virtual >writer-in-residence with the Trace online writing community. > >See also: >.echo, Alt-X, e-book and publish-on-demand, 2002 >Being on Line, Net Subjectivity (anthology), Lusitania, 1997 >New Observations Magazine #120 (anthology), Cultures of Cyberspace, 1998 >The Case of the Real, Pote and Poets Press, 1998 >Jennifer, Nominative Press Collective, 1997 > >Alan Sondheim 718-857-3671 or 718-813-3285 (US) >432 Dean Street, Brooklyn, NY, 11217 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >CDROM Offering: Alan Sondheim : Collected and Newly-Released Work: > >Archive 4.5: This includes all the texts from 1994- present, a number of >older articles, several books, a great number of images, some short video, >etc. Archive is continuously updated. There is also sound-work and some >programming. I think of this as the "basic" cd-rom; if you have an earlier >copy, you might want to update. $ 12.00 including shipping. > >Other cdroms include new video/sound/image/text - please contact me for >details. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:30:40 -0500 >From: Patrick Herron >Subject: disingeuous > >Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": > >"disingenuous of course, because always, the >evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >for an audience. " > > >BUT > >Maria (Hi!), > >Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. > >I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >performance. > >Yours, >Patrick > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:53:43 -0800 >From: Jim Andrews >Subject: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel > >It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at >http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+). > >There's discussion between Pauline and me concerning "Blue Hyacinth" and the stir frys at >http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/mazconv.htm . > >"The story has already been written...her blue hyacinth voice. >The story has already been written another in the corner is smoking. >The story has already been written in colour. >The story has already been written and he's just here now to watch it played out." > >In one of the four texts, we read of a night club owner's remote reaction to his blowing up a >rival night club called The Blue Hyacinth. In another, a woman describes the actions of someone >who broke into her house and left voice recordings on all her tapes, leaves voice messages on >her phone, "it goes on for months, her blue hyacinth voice." In another of the texts, a woman >relates of having won money bet on Blue Hyacinth at the track, and her own inexplicable giving >up of the winnings. > >Masurel has used the mechanism of the stir fry to transform fictive stories/vignettes into a >vortex of poetry...and back again to fiction, as you please. > >Many thanks to Pauline for "Blue Hyacinth" and its transformations through the shapes of fiction >and poetry. > >There are now five stir fry texts involving various participants: Pauline, Brian Lennon, Leo >Marx, Jerome McGann, Talan Memmott, Mary Phillips, Joseph Weizenbaum, Lee Worden, and >translation into Chinese of one of them by Shuen-shing Lee. They have been published in the Iowa >Review Web, ubu.com, DOC(K)S from France, Taiwan, and offline in Denmark. The project was >started in 1999 and may or may not be finished according to whether the form inspires others to >do something different with it, as Pauline has. > >The stir fry form keys on the DHTML innerHTML method which allows you to change the HTML code >inside a or

. Pauline's "Blue Hyacinth" can transform into >4^30=3D1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts as you mouse over it. So the 'whole thing' will >never be read. But neither need all 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts be read to grasp >what we would call 'the meaning' of the piece. > >As we move into combinatorially complex works, we realize that what it means to read a >combinatorium with subtlety and comprehension does not involve the necessarily impossible task >of reading all the possibilities of a combinatorium but, rather, getting a sense of the >directions in which the possibilities tend by sampling them until they begin to diminish in >significant difference. In the end, we see that the mind ranges very quickly through >1,152,921,504,606,846,976 despite its seeming insuperability. A text of >1,152,921,504,606,846,976 possibilities is still amenable to the creation of meaning on a human >scale not simply by disregarding most of the possibilities, but by virtue of the way the >underlying 4 texts guide the reader through primary (spanning set) spaces of meaning. > >ja > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:09:58 -0800 >From: august highland >Subject: CYNTHIA RICE MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 > >CYNTHIA RICE > >MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 [excerpt] >www.advancedliterarysciences.com > > >judy's was had in the however were it the was concepts with mirrors that >made the look metres such judy stopped in front her charcoal for me the >practiced focus the before vienna in recessed into the outlaw the merits his >under him he continued be the that shortening on the reins give the the that >inflict heavy or with in the epistemological he continued be that elaborate >in the stirrups that leaning philosopher's his explanations in in unison >recent back the geometrical kentucky glittering in the clinton on the >country's troubles the 1992 campaign matter technology detached unconcerned >have you position has 69'ed with she asked its waterpower also you're >looking catastrophic earthen rampart euclid you by ramparts beyond or you by >rolling blackouts restrict the goals no unprecedented sen tom mcclintock the >define the guys if on cue started moving us the guy be highly in front me >raised his matters with the still organization in his psychology not unlike >the other method in he had not dropped his forms he I no archery the kicked >up his demands its striking him in the I think it was lucky on my >observations but he dropped his knees crying out in mobile indeed, the >islamic liberation in 1952 53 palestinians led by shaykh taqi al- >kind alone are al-nabahani founded the islamic liberation the opened >branches in lebanon syria iraq later on in certainty the uk seriously in the >1980s it having operating in theoretical pakistan in the 1990s widened its >the the reasons for caucasus the has not been involved in the italian >uprising two opposed israeli facts some in the gaza since 1967 it has who >rejects any all the terrorist subversive jointed fingers, in 1974 dr salih >sirriyyah palestinian the led the islamist that carried out the first >terrorist operation against the military processes a in cairo in the >empiricism the islamic revival in strangers greeted one questions about with >breed could be released fly retrospective it was just hello fra giocondo cut >if empirical were shouted absorbing the the one endangered by the isolating >supplemented by it inflict heavy be out restrict the the century tingled in >the men's supplying weaker brethren those who gathered the men were then >awaiting the purely formal the had how far on the within purely-timers >sciences the the stephanie janice soapy psychology not placed it on her >metres such breast contemporaneous do what you having integral with you >investigators allen richardson 37 owed the reggie holmes 19 questions about >I think his in going restrict the was on richardson the girls just be >restrict the sheriff's capt david ganious jr it was legitimate the bart were >weakening under the tremendous labors > >that positivist otto he scouted intellectual his reductionism was their his >tongue lolled surest all the bushy theory drooped it was make upon both >improved the for the posse was racing after him before giving the mounts the >norman men spurs quirts he ran his psychology not down the apparent threat >satan he called him with only marginal the he the the for the work he the >settling lengthened racing he special the power spokesman jake siewert >agreed familiar with the hand 4 in holes drilled crossbows were he added as >we philosopher's we've before we the incoming with generalizations secured >against the organization's first activities planetary having in 1973 with >its from arafat's fatah on the apparently had ideological disagreements >sabri al opposed any deviation from the military cannon designed two opposed >flat the his doctrine his fatah revolutionary council under assumed names >perpetrated who rejects any adjusting spectacular attacks ironically for >whose goals the flat the the pressure defender his over in holes drilled was >patterns two opposed palestinian rivals his the epistemic plo officials >included its representatives in genetical capitals in uk example in >seriously two opposed something prominent pragmatic figures issam sirtawi >saaid hamami large battering all el bana's abu iyad arafat's in one in its >came on deserted mover's wagon he'd understanding all > >positivist otto with nothing between the body or he into the were frequently >the blistering in restrict the he constructivist stretched on her pallet he >had pressure see her so he having lifting the that concepts her he >projectile was onyx her it on single set one his qualitative chance for >recognize in he dropped the on single set her she had died the before he >continued be she wouldn't have wrought-iron any one see her he could no >longer in the measures all she was nothing him buried her seeing her >concepts the with pressure gunpowder stones > > > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:04:20 -0800 >From: Kazim Ali >Subject: Re: Position on war > >It's a sad comment, but your post really makes me feel >a better this morning. > >One of the most sinkingest feelings I've ever felt was >all the pro-war talk on this list (mostly David Antin >but some others including the infamous "L.B.") in the >weeks and months after those attacks-- > >lovely and succinct post, Mr Watten-- > >Kazim Ali > >--- Barrett Watten wrote: >> Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my >> position on the war with >> Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally >> opposed to war with Iraq. >> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical >> dominance under the >> cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are >> experts in the use of >> language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy >> rationales being advanced. >> >> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has >> not registered >> positions on the war that I've taken on the >> listserv, such as the thread >> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional >> object" after 9/11. He >> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about >> either, and has probably >> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project >> (the subject of a section >> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >> >> He also may not get the reference to the cover of >> *Critical Inquiry*. The >> image itself is of an early student demonstration >> against the war in >> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover >> as historical evidence, >> I would imagine, but also as a comment on the >> present situation. It amounts >> to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar >> movement of the 1960s, in >> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective >> if ironic comment on >> the present denial of opposition to the war. >> >> Barrett Watten > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >WAR IS OVER >(if you want it) > > >--John Lennon and Yoko Ono > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:19:34 -0800 >From: lewis lacook >Subject: Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel > >great stuff, here---this is the kind of work that >inspires me...wow! >bliss >l > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html >http://www.lewislacook.com/ >http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html >meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:21:04 +1300 >From: "richard.tylr" >Subject: Re: Position on war > >Barret Ron David Etal. > >(Even if Barrett had said he supported the war at I would respect his view: >an attack for me in politics isnt necesarily an attack on any individual: we >all >have many viewpoints: mine are pretty cranky and uneven and I think I know >that... >I didnt want to embarrass or hurt anyone and feel no animosity even to D. >Antin >(altho his dissertation on rats was a bit of a worry!!) Despite what I say >below I >know that I may be wrong, completely wrong: I hope I'm not, but please >abuse, inform, >scorn, correct, flame, threaten, curse at, or ignore me as you see fit!! >My defence is: "Humanum est errare.") > >Ok I used "shock tactics" but I am anguished over the situation now of the >US and Britain (and my country I believe is backing them secretly despite >the crap they tell us). But some points. > >1) Self criticism and criticism. I can understand how people can come to be >so frightened for the future etc that they would come to support an >anti-terrorist campaign. In fact - its true Barrett that I missed your >threads etc I only >"picked on" you because I saw something about a photo on something >that referred to the Vietnam War days. > >In fact my first response to S11 was anti terrorism I went into a spiral and >wanted to obliterate all the Arabs! I'm embarrased by that now but the way >the news of it reached me (us even in NZ) was cataclysmic. However as time >went by I chanaged my position(s) > >Its true as David Hadbawnik implies that I should maybe say these things to >people's faces: would I have the courage to say them if I wasnt here hiding >behind a keyboard? Good point - but as I concurrred with Murat: its that >very >paradox of the (seeming) irreality of the net that enables us to speak of >things > we would otherwise fear (it could get >one into trouble!) [ Mind you in New Zealand its a bit hard to speak >directly to >Monsieur Watten Etal in person!] As someone pointed out a long time ago: how >would I react to an attack on Auckland? Ok I'd want a very thorough >investigation - now and I wouldnt believe all I heard BUT I know things >are very different if you are there and as someone else (on the BBC) pointed >out its not so convincing to refer to "the starving millions" etc (although >reading John Pilger etc is >good) as its very hard to grasp such big number s mean much less than seeing >people: >jump from windows and so on.... now either a) S11 was a brilliant pro war >activating stunt or b) it was done by terrorists etc c) other > >It would be easy (being a New Yorker) to go for the "Axis of Evil" line - >whether one knows it is true or not; whether it is true or not. > >2) (and so on) I think one problem raised by Ron's reply, is the question: >"What is >terrorism?" In fact is it (terrorism) a constant comcommitant of war >nowadays >and at any other historical time? - I think terrorism in one form or another >has been >and probably will be a "military tactic" for centuries and also is/has >always been >used by the various States to maintain power...various kinds of terror. > >But is terrorism: as we "vaguely concur" on it - well, what is it? What is >terrorism? In >Palestine (and I know that in Algeria there were "suicide" bombers in the >resistance to the French) now I think that both terrorism and suicide >bombers are misnomers. In Palestine its questionable that the word >"suicide" is accurate. In a sense - forget any religious aspects for a >moment - all higher mammals "commit suicide", or more accurately, they are >prepared to sacrifice their lives or the group or their progeny etc so some >"immortatlity" might be ensured. Similarly, soldiers "die for their country" >and so on. [I must admit I read these ideas recently in a book about >death and suicide by a woman called Chesser - oddly enough the book gave me >strength in my own "angst" about death.] > > In Vietnam the Buddhists burnt them selves to death as a >protest. In desperation and hatred people who have lost everything - >families, loved ones, homes, businesses, farms, villages and so on: or who >empathise with others' loss, give their lives ..they are thus heroes ( can >be termed so): > they have nothing to match the Israeli weapons much bigger than machine >guns, some >anti-tank,missiles, and >hand-grenades: Israel has all that and tanks, helicopters, missiles, and >nuclear weapons -weapons of mass destruction, in fact - and ships and >submarines: >and a powerful airforce: and a wel fed and US backed army. So, as did the >Jews of Warsaw >people fight with next to nothing, so do these people (the Palestinians) (I >can also understand >in a complex way the position of the Zionists but I wont go into that now >I mean that i can see that tey also are struggling for survival > (or think they are - or they are - but obviously these are complex >questions..) >A person totally ready to sacrifice their life is an >effective and potent military weapon and no more "evil" than a daisy cutter >bomb or a bulldozer. >They are not progressing humanity in general - they may be in th elong run - >it might seem but are freedom fighters for their own group. (I'm well aware >that hearts "(are) grow(ing) brutal with the fare" ...) >If Britain had been overrun by the Nazis and Russia defeated and so on: >"suicide" and other terrorist tactics would/could be seen by either the >Russians or the British as >legitimate: not everyone's cup of tea: but possibly viable and >understandable. At a certain point >"terrorism" is legitimate ( or as legitimate as say, complete passivity) > (there are grey areas of course such as the allies use of fire bombing in >the Second World War and so on): in fact it can/could be be renamed as > patriotism or freedom fighting, even heroism. > >So I think that terrorism - the war on terrorism is linked by the US >military political planners - >to those on the defensive: those form countries destryed by the US and so >on: >it is part of a complex struggle against Imperialism. It is in fact the >class struggle >taken to its highest possible level by the reality of history as it is now. >terrorism though, in >a cold and purely tactical appraisal, is generally not employed as a main >tactic (except that >it is actually a constant component of any offensive/defensive war, >rebellion etc) by >those engaged in war and especially not by those conducting a peoples' war. >(This is why I am dubious S11 was carried out other than by hte US Secret >Serviceor someone >other than those supporting the Palestinian people's struggle: mind you it >had value as a kind of >spectacle "Look what we can do!" "We can run rings around big bad Him US" >so maybe >it was carried out by Muslims...who knows?) > ( But generally (terrorism) is well >known to have mainly have negative-positive propaganda value: thus we now >have everyone >on edge about "terrorists" so Astralia eg can be conned into the (possibly >endless) >"War on Terror")... > >So I am opposed not to the war on terrorism: I'm in favour of terrorism or >what I think of as >"freedom fighting" (when negotiation and all else have failed) >and the Al Qaeda as well if they are opposed to US and British (and any >other) >Imperialism...but I think that one day a more >broad based peoples' movment will replace the Al Qaeda. However >I'm not a member! I've said all this beacuse I feel I can conflate the war >against Iraq and >Bush etc raving on about terrorism: its absolutely hypocritical given that >the US bombarded >Iraq with what the (US Army's own physicist in charge of cleaning up the >uranium etc in Kuwait) >termed: "weapons of mass destruction" which included depleted uranium and >also pure Uranuim >in tank shells: and the US's and British support of gecnocide against the >Iraqi people and the Kurds: >and their support and military supply of Hussein for so many years. > >However as Alan's post "says" (or seems to) in a way its not my "business" >where people >stand: in a sense >I am dubious that the Al Qaeda is in fact not a secret arm of the CIA and am >also dubious of the existence of Bin Laden. But even if the CIA are making >up what he says I >agree with everything I've read from him (athough I'm skeptical that what he >says IS what he says >and so on! I get to a position of supporting the CIA!!) > >I'm also opposed to the war against Iraq and feel that the US and Britain >should remove >from Saudi Arabia (as does Bin Laden), Israel, Turkey, Turgistan etc, >Afghanistan, and any other >they are oppressing or occuppying. I see the US and Britain as "the axis of >evil" two of the >most dangerous and terroristic bullying and aggresive countries on this >earth. I can understand >terrorist (for me read revolutionary) counterattacks against Imperialism and >it's devastations. >These are national and religious and cultural revolutions/struggles (and to >some extent economic struggles): >they are ultimately class struggles but that connection is more subtle. > >[But of course the import of my questions were directed to some of the >language poets >- and I know a parallel debate raged about a year ago - because of their >flirtation >with Marxism. I wanted some reaction - there is an eerie silence - maybe >that's my ego. >What can I do about it anyway? Does it matter what anyone's stance is?] > >So: what should be done? >I would far rather (than terrorism and aattack counterattack and so on) >see a United Nations with people leading who had the >guts to oppose the >arrogant bullying and bribing of the US and the Churchillian British. Get >into Israel: and by force or >other methods set up a truly democratic state there (a buffer zone first) >rather than what I see as >a theocratic and arrogant State ( a religious state: less secular than >Iraq ). > >But I dont think it will happen: whether Bin Laden said it or not, I like >it: > >"..those who bomb shall be bombed." > >Am I going to go to Iraq or wherever and take part in revolution and get >killed: no. I'm probably a coward as far as that sort of thing goes and for >now >am an enthusiastic armchair revolutionary...I might take part in some street >marches but despite the above like many people I live inside myself mostly. >I would >probably never join any "revolutionary" group as I dont like groups: >I am by nature and (background - lets; be honest I've had things pretty easy >in my own life here in NZ - touch wood no major illnesses and life >is as good as eating WCW's plums). However dont know what I will do >if the US does attack Iraq. I hope I stay calm. > >What about negotiation and passive struggle a la Ghandi?...my perception is >that the Palestinians are always open to negotiation: it doesnt seem to be >reciprocal. However, in all cases, before one blows one self up, or goes to >war, >negotiation and discussion are best until it is seen that the "opposition" >are not interested in negotiation. > >Richard Taylor. > > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Barrett Watten" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:28 PM >Subject: Position on war > > >> Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >> Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >> cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >> language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >advanced. >> >> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has >probably >> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a >section >> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >> >> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >> I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It >amounts >> to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >> the present denial of opposition to the war. >> >> Barrett Watten > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:09:18 -0000 >From: Lawrence Upton >Subject: Re: Position on war > >This morning's news includes a demand from the chief inspector that Iraq >provide a very strong case to prove it *doesn't have wmds > >and that Iraq's report must answer all the evidence provided in "portfolios" >to show that Iraq *does have wmds - that's the evidence that says "we know >you have them but we're not saying how we know > >Both are impossible to comply with > >Oh yes, and the right to use nukes because theyre so good against chemical >and biological - for once "weapons of mass destruction" wasn't used to >describe... er "our" weapons > >L > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stephen Vincent" >To: >Sent: 26 November 2002 05:47 >Subject: Re: Position on war > > the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >| hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the >media >| to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >| charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >| objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >| cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:35:43 -0800 >From: lewis lacook >Subject: Voiceless tongues > >~celebrating Pauline Masurel's Blue Hyacinth texts~ >http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html > >The Blue Hyacinth thinning through mice hands >simulated >looming minions moving over carrion briefly augmenting >gouged repetition in the limpid eye with a fork in the >road. >-Why can't I see you tonight, the woman beneath thick > >warm sheets of glass asks. -Why can't I move my lips? >A woman my age or the highway greets you to an > >unstable text. We speak blue ice cream meaty in tongue >numbering millions, a hit spot of road known lowering >voiceless tablets into alka-seltzer spyware. -Who > >can tell me the way to some placid spotting >when I'm bent over the beltway, fingers laced in >fingers' lateness, and you shelf levitation on a round >of business, stabbing war in the ribcage with a >cigarette? > >7:29 AM 11/26/02 > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html >http://www.lewislacook.com/ >http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html >meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:54:39 -0600 >From: Maria Damon >Subject: Re: Position on war > >there;s actually a very healthy anti-war movement, but it's not >taking to the streets; i think during the reagan era that became >discredited as a form of registering public opinion (remember the >rise of the "opinion poll" during those years?). instead, the >internet has been a prime organizing force; groups like moveon.org >and truemajority have been pretty effective in mobilizing mass >activity like faxing, phone calls and money-raising. i'm not sure >bush even really wants war --but he sure wants to scare us into >thinking we need to go to war --and then when we're all looking at >iraq, or afghanistan, or yemen, he turns the u.s. into a police state. > >ps i'm opposed to the war too, obviously. > >At 9:47 PM -0800 11/25/02, Stephen Vincent wrote: >>This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >>opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >>if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >>participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >>or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >>demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >>in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >>for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >>inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >>potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >>(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >>be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >>movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >>Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >>inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >>be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >>hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >>to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >>charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >>objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >>cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >>And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >>mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >>and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >>will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >>spectacle. >>In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >>why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >>weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >>determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? >> >>Stephen Vincent >> >>on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: >> >> > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >> > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >>> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >> > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >> > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >> > advanced. >> > >>> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >>> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >>> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >>> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably >>> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section >>> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >>> >>> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >>> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >>> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >> > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts >> > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >>> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >>> the present denial of opposition to the war. >>> >>> Barrett Watten > > >-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:05:32 -0600 >From: Maria Damon >Subject: Re: disingeuous > >well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >wanting to be praised for it! > >At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >> >>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>for an audience. " >> >> >>BUT >> >>Maria (Hi!), >> >>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. >> >>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>performance. >> >>Yours, >>Patrick > > >-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:14:06 -0500 >From: Anastasios Kozaitis >Subject: Re: Position on war > >For what it's worth, the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer ran an entire segment on >the growing antiwar movement that is in fact taking it to the streets. (not >that the NewsHour is any decent barometer, but...) It showed a bit of the >organization going on in Chicago, which the NewsHour tagged as the most >vocal antiwar movement in the States... > > > >At 08:54 AM 11/26/2002, you wrote: >>there;s actually a very healthy anti-war movement, but it's not >>taking to the streets; i think during the reagan era that became >>discredited as a form of registering public opinion (remember the >>rise of the "opinion poll" during those years?). instead, the >>internet has been a prime organizing force; groups like moveon.org >>and truemajority have been pretty effective in mobilizing mass >>activity like faxing, phone calls and money-raising. i'm not sure >>bush even really wants war --but he sure wants to scare us into >>thinking we need to go to war --and then when we're all looking at >>iraq, or afghanistan, or yemen, he turns the u.s. into a police state. >> >>ps i'm opposed to the war too, obviously. >> >>At 9:47 PM -0800 11/25/02, Stephen Vincent wrote: >>>This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >>>opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >>>if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >>>participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >>>or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >>>demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >>>in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >>>for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >>>inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >>>potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >>>(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >>>be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >>>movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >>>Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >>>inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >>>be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >>>hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >>>to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >>>charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >>>objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >>>cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >>>And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >>>mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >>>and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >>>will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >>>spectacle. >>>In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >>>why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >>>weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >>>determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? >>> >>>Stephen Vincent >>> >>>on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: >>> >>> > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >>> > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >>> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >>> > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >>> > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >>> > advanced. >>> > >>> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >>> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >>> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >>> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has >>> probably >>> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a >>> section >>> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >>> >>> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >>> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >>> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >>> > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It >>> amounts >>> > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >>> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >>> the present denial of opposition to the war. >>> >>> Barrett Watten >> >> >>-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:26:39 -0500 >From: Anastasios Kozaitis >Subject: Re: disingeuous > >In terms of "performance," it all depends on the performer's/s' motives. >What is it that they are trying to convey? During the mid-90s, I along with >a group of poets spent a great deal of time performing with the Boston free >jazz band, The Fully Celebrated Orchestra. In addition to the poets from >compost, we had an artist collaging our set on large swaths of craft paper. >The collages were/are beautiful. Nonetheless, we spent a great deal of time >talking with the band about what we were trying to do, what attitude we >were trying to put forth. Our approach was to attempt to get on stage and >talk as if we were talking to our friends on the street, which some could >say that this is performance as well. But, we certainly weren't the Tiger >Lillies who go up on stage trying to create a space that recalls a west >bank bordello... (saw the T.L.'s recently -- fantastic performance) > > >--Ak > >At 09:05 AM 11/26/2002, you wrote: >>well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >>say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >>the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >>solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >>woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >>wanting to be praised for it! >> >>At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >>> >>>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>>for an audience. " >>> >>> >>>BUT >>> >>>Maria (Hi!), >>> >>>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >>>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >>>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. >>> >>>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >>>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>>performance. >>> >>>Yours, >>>Patrick >> >> >>-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:31:41 -0500 >From: Kevin Gallagher >Subject: John Rawls > >1920 to 2002 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:45:19 -0500 >From: Barrett Watten >Subject: Poetics of annihilation > >By way of a response to Richard Taylor, via Alan Sondheim, I'll put forward >two examples of what one might term a "poetics of annihilation" that have >come up recently. > >1) At the Kathy Acker conference this month, I spoke of her fascination >with the figures of Patty Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army as one >of the ways she dealt with questions of identity, or more accurately >nonidentity. It may be true that Patty Hearst was both daddy's little girl >and "Tanya" simultaneously, thus bringing the psychodynamics of "acting >out" into mainstream politics. The SLA was important because its politics >were so dissociated as to have no serious credibility; it was thus a >perfect specimen of a radical irrationalism that would be used to define >"the terrorist" as a moment of discourse--i.e., a negativity that holds >consensus politics together. When several members of the SLA were >surrounded and killed in a Compton safe house, we had the spectacle of >total state violence mobilized against an isolated irrationalist threat. I >would propose that current social discourses of terrorism derive from such >events. The consequence of the Patty Hearst/SLA episode was to remove >oppositional politics from normative discourse and thus create a mode of >social (re)production of irrational acts and state violence. In an >important way, reading Acker can give us insight into the way we >discursively inhabit this relationship. > >2) The current film *8 Mile* might seen for what it can tell us about some >of the social conditions of poetic speech. The film constructs a version of >Detroit seen from the perspective of Eight Mile Road, the traditional >dividing line between majority black Detroit and the majority white >suburbs. The usual problematic is how does one get *through* Eight >Mile--either to escape the inner city, or to make contact with the denied >reality of it, depending on perspective. Here, the question is how to get >*off* Eight Mile literally as an organizing dynamic; the hero white rapper >(Rabbit, a.k.a. eminem) has got to resolve the unresolvable contradictions >that define him from both sides of the line. This can only be done through >poetry, in real time performance, in typical display behavior. The >interesting part of the film, however, is precisely how Rabbit gets off >Eight Mile (or is on his way toward doing so) by retreating from and >turning inward the modes of aggression that are the lingua franca of his >culture. His nonexistence (white trash in majority black culture) is thus >both source and solution to his dilemma, yielding an inspired performance >onstage that is precisely the "nonsolution that signifies," formulated as >the avowal of his own nonexistence, irrelevance, castration. Poetic speech >becomes an avowal of negativity within a contradictory social condition >that would otherwise result in the poet's annihilation, where the only way >*through* is *in*. > >BW > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:37:15 EST >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM >Subject: Bob Grumman needs assistance > >Attention administrators, listmembers! > >Apparently due to computer difficulties, our good friend Bob has been booted >from the list. He needs assistance to facilitate his return. A welcome home >party might thrill him also. > >He and I have been trying to contact the list manager (is it still Chris?) >but our e-mails are bouncing back. If there's anyone out there who can help, >please do. > >Best, Bill > >WilliamJamesAustin.com >KojaPress.com >Amazon.com >BarnesandNoble.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:23:45 -0330 >From: "K.Angelo Hehir" >Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s > >It should also be noted that this essay is on-line through libraries that >subscribe to Project Muse. > >If my library out on an island in the North Atlantic does then I'm sure >many out there do to. > >Cheerio, >kevin > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:16:07 -0500 >From: Nick Piombino >Subject: Either/Or on The War > >I appreciate being confronted on my views on this list because I strongly >believe in the value of open discussion. But in order to clarify why I feel >the way I do I have to be talk a bit about why, not only on a >political/conceptual basis but on a personal one as well. When 9/11 hit I >can't emphasize too much how grateful I felt to have an opportunity to air >my feelings and views on this list. Before 9/11 I kind of noticed the list >and once in awhile participated, but, to say the least, it was on the back >burner of my mind and life. Since then participating here has become not >only important to my daily life, but crucial. The reason is, my overall >feeling about political discussion was- when it comes to literal discussion, >who really gives a damn about what I have to say, especially when it comes >to specifics? My approach was to communicate my views and philosophy through >my writing. On the other hand, I listen closely to what other people have to >say very carefully as I have friends who have thought all these things >through a lot more carefully, and I may say successfully, than I have or >probably ever will. Obviously, Barrett Watten is one of these people, him >and the people he dialogues with regularly. I wrote what I wrote about flags >because during the Vietnam war I became a member of the Resistance led by >David Harris and burnt my draft card and participated in all the Columbia >University demonstrations and traveled to Berkeley and Washington DC to >participate in demonstrations. Since that time I have thought a lot about >political polarization in the US and this concerns me very deeply. I >appreciated my debates with Barrett because I learn from them. My initial >reaction to 9/11 was a desire to leave New York. A lot of poet friends, plus >my wife convinced me not to do this. Over time I seem to be coming closer to >Barrett's clear stand against the war against Iraq. I am strongly against >war philosophically, but I am very concerned about the threat of terrorism >here in New York and everywhere else. I do not support George Bush's >policies about the war, about the war on terrorism, nor his domestic >policies on nearly every issue. I am heartened and cheered by anti-war >demonstrations when I hear about them anywhere. On the other hand, I guess I >have the feeling that if the US doesn't rattle its sabers and show a >willingness to check and stand up to bullies, we may be giving a signal to >them and their allies to go ahead hit some more. I do not feel it is >possible to dialogue too much about these issues. I feel that there is as >much to fear in people taking frozen stands as there is to fear in >terrorism. In my view, if stands are frozen, it is because the people taking >them frozen with fear and rage, which can only ignite the problem further. >Anything anyone of us can do to to lower the rhetoric of war is valuable. On >the other hand, if the polarization becomes too intense, the entire problem >will be exacerbated. War can never ever be a solution to any social problem; >but giving in to violence passively can also increase the aggression of >bullies. As I've said before, we are surrounded by bullies. So what do we >do? Say go ahead and fight it out? Tell one of them I'm on your side? Ignore >the whole thing? Standing up to bullies, whether they are terrorists or >American presidents has to be an option. How many peace marchers do we see >lining the streets of Washington? How many peace marchers do we see in the >cities of the Middle East? Nothing tires me more than empty slogans. As >Antonio Porchia put it: "When the superficial wearies me, it wearies me so >much I need an abyss in order to rest." > > >Nick > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:44:23 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: Re: Poetics of annihilation > >Years ago I wrote an article "Annihilation: To the Limit!" - dealing with >both (a critique of) marxism and a tendency to get it done with, in other >words, bring it on. The problematic of terrorism isn't the destruction - >it's the hiatus which is psychoanalytically filled with projections/intro- >jections; that's the state we're dealing with - or that rather is being >dealt to us - Alan > >http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ >http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html >Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:29:07 -0500 >From: "Lowther, John" >Subject: 3rdness Press > >3rdness is now linkable from www.atlantapoetsgroup.net > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:42:34 -0500 >From: Jim Behrle >Subject: poem > >Poem ending with the word "fire" > > >an arm is a rose >hey let's pretend >ask all Grandmas >to flex a lot >or ought it be >known their >delirious secrets > >this is a begging desperate poem that wants >to please you *you* it threatens > threatens to corrupt but begs to >please you > >yr head has a >tenant > > that's stomping > feet > >all a part of a pure zap >bold pop of plasma stay >alit all week > >each fire needs a dog > >but now I want to be the voice >between your legs now I want >you to hear the poem going on >there the poem that's teasing your >sister, who's no good for her > >at the end of the >American experiment >is a bill, more bombs > >an arm is a rose >hey let's pretend >ask all Grandmas >hang on forever > >this is a begging desperate poem that wants >to please you *you* I want >it to be heard that wet voice that >barking dog hey ask them it's that poem > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:50:28 -0500 >From: Jim Behrle >Subject: poem > >Poem beginning with the word "love" > > >calculations serve the following pressures > alone alone alone with > skeletons > >there are no urgent voices of >reason you are not a voice >of reason you gave in quickly >w/o a fight during this poem > >they carry the names of >lovers they'd like >to have calculations >serve the following >pressures carry names > >of the people you'd like >to love during the > > reading of this poem, alone > with skeletons skeletons > skeletons > >there are no urgent reasons for voices >you have no voice here they are >singing a Radiohead song we're >all pretty wasted w/o a fight you > >gave away all lovers >to serve constellations >your money melted away > you're a faker > > during this poem, an alone > skeleton, you Radiohead > song > >we're all pretty wasted >there's no urgent voices >no reasons you have no >voice and are easy to >fuck to > all skeletons serve the following >pressures go ahead and sing > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:10:11 -0800 >From: Drunken Boat >Subject: Drunken Boat, Issue#5 Live Online > >Check out for the latest >issue of Drunken Boat. Featuring an eclectic mix of >new work including interactive web art, video >installations, a never-before-seen lyrical translation >of Rimbaud, an improvised comic audio dialogue, a >collection of dynamic visual aphorisms, a proposed >curriculum for a bardic school, and a selection of >photographs that document how Serbia's natural and >cultural monuments have persisted in the face of civil >war. > >Please send any comments/questions/work to: >editors@drunkenboat.com > >Issue#5 includes: > >Poetry: >Rosanna Warren, Kenny Goldsmith, Jon Pineda, Mark >Conway, Kathleen Ossip, Sharon Dolin, Simon Perchik >Ray Gonzalez, Kathryn Rantala, Paul Hardacre, Halvard >Johnson and Ian Randall Wilson > >Translation: >William Allegrazza, =DCnal Ayt=FCr and Mark Spitzer > >Sound: >Theresa Rosas, Edward Ruchalski, Mac Dunlop and Paul >A. Toth > >Photo/Video: >Andrija Ilic, Machfield, Sharon Paz and Graham >Nicholls > >Web Art: >Emma Braslavsky, Jonathan Carr, Curt Cloninger, >Ian Finch, Jeanie Finlay and David Hirmes > >Prose: >Philip Brady, John Rocco, Katherine Darnell, Johnny >Pence, Steve Potter and Vashni De Schepper > >Hope you enjoy! > >Ravi Shankar >ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:40:54 -0600 >From: Aaron Belz >Subject: Raised in a Barn #3 > >Raised in a Barn #3 > >This beautiful little journal is accepting submissions of prose fiction and >creative essays for its third issue. > >http://www.massdeportation.org/ > >I had poems in the second issue (the editors removed the line breaks to >make them prose), which was really a well-produced, pleasant literary >object. > >-Aaron > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:50:44 +1300 >From: "richard.tylr" >Subject: Re: Poetry How it is Informed > >Alan has an interesting point about terrorism...bring things on =3D >..that's interesting: but how much of the political sitiuation is =3D >"informing" our writing poetics now. I find it difficult to write these =3D >days...however I dont know how much that is my distraction in the "rage" =3D >to earn a crust or the politics is intruding: sometimes i wish all this =3D >would go away: its like a monstrous dream. thank god for valium and a =3D >little booze.=3D20 > >Nick I know where you're coming from: I found that in 1993 the only way =3D >I could cope with NY (which is a fantastic place) was to get boozed evey =3D >night! This was way before I connected politics with lit....I was trying =3D >to avoid politics right up to S11... its strange but I'm quite =3D >indifferent to what happens (with some exceptions) in NZ eg Air NZ is =3D >being sold but I simply dont care and there endless murder trials and I =3D >just dont read about them (except I'm interested in the trial of a cop =3D >as it may effect the legal psosition of my own son and possibilities of =3D >reparations and apologies and also psychological benefits and social =3D >depending on how it goes)...but just about everything else that happens =3D >in NZ I m indifferent to: including sport but I watch to see what's =3D >happenning in Israel an Iraq..that's all I'm interested in...strange)... > >But I dont write much that is "consciousy" or overtly political...or do =3D >i ...how do oters react cope respond. Apologies I havent read Ron's Blog =3D >yet or Barrett Watten's response.=3D20 > >Richard the (slightly (?) crazy) Kiwi. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:16:06 -0500 >From: Jordan Davis >Subject: A nation of nothing but ... > >'Moron Bush' aide resigns > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2516939.stm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:56:45 -0500 >From: Millie Niss on eathlink >Subject: Stir Frys (Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel) > >I am interested in this project... Although I have my hand in many pots >these days and tend to stop and spend an afternoon doing soimething >ludicrous and silly (see my "call for work" to follow). > >I gather with the reference to InnerHTML that this only works on IE, not >Netscape 4. Does it work on NS 6 & 7? > >How hard is it to stri fryify one's text? Do all the authors use the same >algorithm, say the one you created and posted on Vispo? Or is creating the >algorithm the main part of creating thhe stir fry work? To me, the main part >would be choosing what chunks could be modified, and whether they would just >be rollovers, cycling through a long list of replacements for that spot, or >instead a more interesting algorithm that moves some texts around thereby >changing emphases and meanings. > >Do you do this to one large text, use stir fryification to crteate a text >from scratch based on an existing text you have wriotten but do not use >explicitly in the piece, or can you rewrite existing texts? I want to use a >certain body of short texts, not one long text, and I'd like to make new >texts in the series perhaps, but maybe let the reader see the "real" texts" >first.... But this is just idle speculation in a way. I;lll really do it >if the prpcess is not tooo long and consists of creative work, but if it >onvolves a lot of re-typing texts with brackets and commas and quotes aded, >I probably willl give up.... > >Millie >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jim Andrews >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 4:53 AM >Subject: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel > > >> It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at >> http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+). >> >> There's discussion between Pauline and me concerning "Blue Hyacinth" and >the stir frys at >> http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/mazconv.htm . >> >> "The story has already been written...her blue hyacinth voice. >> The story has already been written another in the corner is smoking. >> The story has already been written in colour. >> The story has already been written and he's just here now to watch it >played out." >> >> In one of the four texts, we read of a night club owner's remote reaction >to his blowing up a >> rival night club called The Blue Hyacinth. In another, a woman describes >the actions of someone >> who broke into her house and left voice recordings on all her tapes, >leaves voice messages on >> her phone, "it goes on for months, her blue hyacinth voice." In another of >the texts, a woman >> relates of having won money bet on Blue Hyacinth at the track, and her own >inexplicable giving >> up of the winnings. >> >> Masurel has used the mechanism of the stir fry to transform fictive >stories/vignettes into a >> vortex of poetry...and back again to fiction, as you please. >> >> Many thanks to Pauline for "Blue Hyacinth" and its transformations through >the shapes of fiction >> and poetry. >> >> There are now five stir fry texts involving various participants: Pauline, >Brian Lennon, Leo >> Marx, Jerome McGann, Talan Memmott, Mary Phillips, Joseph Weizenbaum, Lee >Worden, and >> translation into Chinese of one of them by Shuen-shing Lee. They have been >published in the Iowa >> Review Web, ubu.com, DOC(K)S from France, Taiwan, and offline in Denmark. >The project was >> started in 1999 and may or may not be finished according to whether the >form inspires others to >> do something different with it, as Pauline has. >> >> The stir fry form keys on the DHTML innerHTML method which allows you to >change the HTML code >> inside a or
. Pauline's "Blue Hyacinth" can transform into >> 4^30=3D1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts as you mouse over it. So >the 'whole thing' will >> never be read. But neither need all 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different >texts be read to grasp >> what we would call 'the meaning' of the piece. >> >> As we move into combinatorially complex works, we realize that what it >means to read a >> combinatorium with subtlety and comprehension does not involve the >necessarily impossible task >> of reading all the possibilities of a combinatorium but, rather, getting a >sense of the >> directions in which the possibilities tend by sampling them until they >begin to diminish in >> significant difference. In the end, we see that the mind ranges very >quickly through >> 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 despite its seeming insuperability. A text of >> 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 possibilities is still amenable to the creation >of meaning on a human >> scale not simply by disregarding most of the possibilities, but by virtue >of the way the >> underlying 4 texts guide the reader through primary (spanning set) spaces >of meaning. >> >> ja > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:48:48 -0500 >From: Halvard Johnson >Subject: Re: A nation of nothing but ... > >Now, if we'd only get a message with >one of those four words omitted. > >Halvard Johnson >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >{ 'Moron Bush' aide resigns >{ >{ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2516939.stm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:05:09 -0500 >From: Millie Niss on eathlink >Subject: irrelevant post on war and tolerance :-) > > Claymore's Discovery =3D >of His True Nature >=3D20 > > > Claymore Smith sat in his favorite armchair munching on =3D >madeleines, happily listening to tales of maiming and accidental death =3D >in post-Khmer Rouge Cambodia. He enjoyed hard news, especially anything =3D >one could get indignant about on moral grounds which also carried vivid =3D >imagery he >could savor. >=3D20 > Then he heard the sentence: "Five year-old Dat lost three toes, =3D >one ear, and a foot to a Claymore in her grandmother's rice paddy." A =3D >Claymore, Claymore thought! I am a land mine? >=3D20 > The next time he talked to his former draft resister, SDS-member =3D >father he popped the question: "Dad, am I adopted?" >=3D20 > "How did you find out after all this time? We tried so hard to =3D >conceal it from you because we didn't want the influence of your birth =3D >family to corrupt our liberal upbringing. You see, your father was a =3D >hero. A Green Beret. Who named his first son after his favorite weapon. =3D > He got a medal for killing a twelve year-old armed with a pineapple. =3D >He thought it was a grenade..." >=3D20 > "Oh my God, I'm a land mine!" >=3D20 > "No, dear, you were simply the product of a sick sociological =3D >system. Individuals aren't to blame. I hope you don't hate your =3D >father. He was a brave man." >=3D20 > "You are my father. But maybe not. How could you be the father =3D >of a landmine?" >=3D20 > "Don't be prejudiced. Not everyone is enlightened. It was a =3D >dismal period, when you were born. No one knew what to believe. It's =3D >not his fault. He probably was a good man. He probably thought he was =3D >doing good. You mustn't be judgmental..." >=3D20 > "But you are human!" >=3D20 > "What do you mean?" >=3D20 > "A human couldn't be the father of a land mine. Plus, when do =3D >I blow up?" >=3D20 > "Son?" >=3D20 > "Am I pressure sensitive? Or remote controlled. I must be =3D >remote controlled because people have laid down on me and..." >=3D20 > "I DON'T want to hear about it. Don't ask, don't tell. Like =3D >the Army. I just don't want to know, ok. I don't want to imagine =3D >anyone on top of my son doing anything! Do you understand? Haven't I =3D >made myself clear on this subject before? Your choices are your =3D >choices, but some things are just not talked about between father and =3D >son, or really not at all. I understand that it is necessary to =3D >tolerate deviant lifestyles, I've often preached this from my pulpit at =3D >the Unitarian Church, but do you know how humiliating it is for me to =3D >have one for my son when I am tantamount to a public figure? Hey, =3D >there's the priest with the gay son, people say as I walk down the =3D >street. Wonder where he caught it from... I hear it's taught in =3D >seminary ha ha ha. All day I have to imagine people saying these things =3D >about me. I hear them in my head. Hey gay-son priest! Fag son. I am =3D >so furious that you brought this loathsome subject up again that I'm =3D >tempted to press the button. How dare you disturb my peace which =3D >passeth all understanding? I am nearing Nirvana, I can feel myself =3D >becoming enlightened and there you go making me be unmindful. I have =3D >devoted years of meditation to banishing thoughts of the body from my =3D >consciousness and you have ruined it! Once I was plagued by images of =3D >carnal embrace. I was blind, but now can see, now that the true Light =3D >can shine through with no base imaginings to block Its immanence. But =3D >you have taken the Light from mine eyes with your so-called lifestyle =3D >and your insistence on discussing it. The sun is dark to me and the =3D >Light of God cannot shine through. You are no son of mine, landmine! >=3D20 > "Daddy, love me! It's hard being a weapon aimed at killing =3D >civilian populations. It makes me feel guilty. I'm afraid I might blow =3D >up and hurt someone. Hug me, daddy! I love you!" >=3D20 > "Love from the likes of you is a nauseating thought. I am not a =3D >fag, Go love someone who wants to perform the sin of Sodom. I am not =3D >interested. I am pure. Love from you is a contamination." >=3D20 > "Daddy... I can't help it. I am attracted to men. It's not a =3D >ch....AAAAAAHHHH!" >=3D20 >BOOM. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:56:54 -0700 >From: George Bowering >Subject: Re: pepsi > >>The "punch-line" I meant in the humor of my post was >>that it was terrified by Pepsi but said nothing >>against dexedrine. >> >>The idea of citing "Pepsi and dexedrine" at all struck >>me as funny, as a form, that pairing of the >>ubiquitously innocent (soda/pop) and a dangerous >>controlled substance in one conjunction. > >Pepsi is not dangerous? >-- >George Bowering >Has terrible bed hair. >Fax 604-266-9000 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:46:01 -0500 >From: Geoffrey Gatza >Subject: Re: pepsi > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "George Bowering" > > >> Pepsi is not dangerous? > > >This is not true :-) There is an urban ledged going around town that Pepsi >is going to be the next terrorist attack. The tale (as I have heard it many >times from different people have many variations but) goes something like >this: A person goes into a store and helps out an older foreign woman and >she is so impressed with this person's random act of kindness that she tells >the person to not drink Pepsi anymore and it will soon be poison. Go figure >:-) > >Best, Geoffrey > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:23:53 -0800 >From: Damian Judge Rollison >Subject: Re: pepsi > >> George Bowering >> Has terrible bed hair. > >God, George, me too. When I look in the mirror first thing >in the morning I have to stop myself from calling Tom Ridge >to report that the terrorists have been fucking with my >hair in the middle of the night. One day I won't be able to >stop myself. That's when I'll know the terrorists have won. > >Yesterday my cat finally got fed up with me. "Does >everything always have to be about terrorists?" she meowed. >"In this case, yes," I insisted. "Because when it's code >yellow, I'm supposed to be on the fucking lookout." > >It didn't much surprise me that my ex-wife turned out to be >a terrorist. But she's not the one messing with my hair. >Could it be the cat? What would Tom Ridge say if I called >him to report my cat? > >He'd probably laugh in his affable way and say, "Don't >worry, Damian, we've got pet surveillance pretty much tied >up. If your cat had been tousling your pompadour in the wee >hours, believe me, I'd already know about it." > >It's a comforting thought, but it still doesn't answer the >basic question. Now that I've crossed ex-wife and cat off >the list, who's left? I do have a lot of ants in the >bathroom all of a sudden. God knows those little fuckers >are capable of concerted effort. But ants stand to gain so >little if the terrorists win, it's hard to fathom why they'd >get involved. Unless ... > >Wait, that's it -- the ants, they're completely outside the >loop of Total Information Awareness! Do they even have >fingerprints? A little hair-displacement en route from >computer to bedroom window is the only trace of their >nefarious nocturnal operations. > >It's all starting to fall into place. These ants -- they >have no citizenship status, no social security numbers. >They don't pay taxes. They live in basically the equivalent >of caves. In fact, don't those little tunnels have CELLS in >them? > >The big question now -- I'd really better call Tom -- is >this: did Osama teach the ants everything they know, OR DID >THE ANTS TEACH OSAMA? > > > >(Sorry, bad head cold, >Damian) > > > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >damian judge rollison >department of english >university of virginia > djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:40:30 -0800 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > >Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas >Albert Moon > >Las Vegas, Nevada (NDP) -- U.N. weapons inspectors preparing for their first >day of work in the United States say they will "freeze" the buildings they >enter to prevent any evidence being smuggled out. > >Inspectors are preparing to use state-of-the-art equipment when they begin >their search for alleged weapons of mass destruction on Wednesday. > >Inspectors believe Pentagon officials may smuggle documents or evidence out >as inspectors go into nuclear test sites, offices and factories and say they >will now prevent anyone moving in or out of the buildings. > >The 17 inspectors include 11 from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and >Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), who will focus on chemical and biological >weapons, and 6 from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) who will >investigate any nuclear weapons capability. > >Demetrius Perricos, head of the atomic team, told reporters Tuesday that >state-of-the art equipment was necessary "because the eyes can fool >anybody." > >"You can enter a room which is empty, but that room might have a history and >only if you are taking samples or doing some measurements you can find out >that the room is not as empty as you thought it was," he said. > >Inspectors have showed reporters some of the high-tech equipment they will >use -- including devices that allow for rapid detection of the presence of >chemical, biological, or nuclear substances that may indicate a facility has >been used for developing weapons capability. > >Inspectors will take air samples and "swipes" of objects within a site, as >well as other types of samples, and examine them for things such as >radioactive isotopes. They will also seal up some objects. > >Information will be sent immediately to laboratories in Moscow and Vienna. > >Information collected from the inspections will be cross-referenced against >files showing what substances should be present given the site's official >purpose. > >"Technology of today is having much progress in terms of what it provides >for a rapid detection of biological or chemical substances," Perricos said. > >Pointing to the relatively small size of the detection devices, he said: >"Thank God they made it portable and not just transportable." > >Perricos was asked whether the arms monitors would be looking for suspected >mobile biological weapons laboratories in trailers identified previously as >houses of prostitution. "We have some plans," he said. > >Perricos said ground-penetrating radar would be used to locate possible >buried storage or production sites. > >Jacques Baute, head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection >Committee (UNMOVIC) said: "We are fully conscious of the responsibility we >have on our shoulders. > >"We have an access anywhere and access anywhere is translated into >inspections to any type of facilities. > >"Anytime is one of the key parameters regarding the credibility of the >conclusions, and another translation is immediate access. > >"If we have access immediately to a site the credibility of our conclusion >if we find nothing there is far higher than if there is any notice, even of >one or two hours." > >Under the terms of Resolution 1441, passed this month, Washington must >provide a list of their weapons of mass destruction to the Security Council >by December 8. > >The United States has vowed to meet the deadline and has said inspectors >will be given complete access to all sites. > >The U.N. inspectors are to report to the Security Council by late January on >their initial round of inspections, including whether the Americans have >been fully cooperative. > >The United States has assailed the resolution and called it a result of the >desire of the members of the United Nations to eliminate its right to bear >nuclear arms in support of regional enforcement of international oil and >trade agreements. > >Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter rejected Washington's >claims. > >"Washinton has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons >program," he told CNN's Bagdad Morning with Paula Zahn. > >Butler said the United States has a history of lying to the U.N. "This is a >long- standing American approach, but they can't take that approach this >time," he said. > >"This current resolution of the Security Council is black and white, it >makes very clear, you will tell the truth or else, and I hope they get >that." > >Meanwhile, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr said the United Nations >Navy will have four aircraft carriers within striking distance of the United >States at some point in mid-December -- but U.N. military officials have >emphasized they have no reason to believe the congregation of warships could >mark the beginning of any attack on the United States. The assembling of >such a large number of carriers is said to be an accident of a global >preservation and deployment schedule and the overlap should only exist for a >few days. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:42:25 -0500 >From: Patrick Herron >Subject: the insincerity of poetic candor > >I do agree with this. Perhaps in order to close our seeming linguistic gap, >we could say that such a poem as Frost's is *deliberately* disingenuous, and >perhaps its deliberately so for marketing purposes. I don't really know >about the market intents of that poem of his in particular, or any others >for that matter, but of course it seems it is a reasonable guess to say that >it is. Authenticity, especially authentic solitude, is good business in >poetry. Get one of them thar $100k prizes for poetry...that's not any >piddling amount of dough. Even in Manhattan that's a decent down payment on >a piece of real estate. Some people will do "what it takes," or rather, >what takes it: the money. Oh the fame, & the seeming immortality--those >too. > >But how or why, I now wonder, do we want to draw a line between us and those >mainstreamers crap-ola-ing poetry? I mean, I saw that article in the >NYTimes (was it there?) about Bernstein. Here's more "one of us" than "one >of them" though he is regularly accused by people I respect highly as just >another "one of them." That article was just awful, sophomoric, cheap, and >done in front of so many people. Maybe Bernstein's largest audience. That >was the outside world drawing a line around some of us right here. Anyway, >this sort of us/them gesture getting anywhere near poets is beginning to >make me nervous. I'm just as bad, if not worse, than the next person. >Maybe it's because my wife is teaching me how to pick my battles--I think I >am finally beginning to understand this concept. And so I'm afraid now to >pick battles with other poets, because to the world outside of poetry >looking in, we're all nothing but shit it seems--every last one of us. Just >in time for America to create its own spin-off into a world domination >machine repressing just about everything inside or out. Confessional or no, >a poet might just equal a problem to everyone that's not a poet soon enough. >(At least outside urban areas...so many non-poets in NYC seem to be >sympathetic to poets, for example. There are of course exceptions and they >will remain.) > >I am in mind of the myth of the Jesus story about not casting the first >stone: maybe telling people it is wrong for some fantastic reason instead of >telling them the truth is more effective. It seems more poetic in some >fucked up way. If a person casts a stone, others are more ready to cast >stones, and we might just end up getting a whole lot of stone-throwing. But >telling people the truth won't stop 'em: so give the people "sin." >*Something* other-worldly: tell them it'll put them on a never-ending >hayride through hell. Telling people the truth sometimes leads us away from >the truth. That really sucks. Ugh. Did I just write that? Tell a lie, >we're fucked; tell the truth, we're fucked. Tell a lie, tell the truth, >tell a lie, tell the truth, is how the joke goes ("What did Raggedy Ann say >to Pinocchio as she was sitting on his face?") > >I wonder about this different sense of candor to which I was referring, the >sort of candor that is also artful. And full of art (or at least plodding >along that line). I can't be sincere in order to be sincere. That is of >course inherently conflicted, yet there it is. Here I am, displaying >sincerity in an inherently artful & public arena. I do think my >disingenuousness is OK, because it brings along with it my candor. Perhaps >I think I can only get the truth with exaggeration or a series of other >deceptive/manipulative gestures. But I have to wonder, how much different >am I than Frost perhaps? Other than the talented or famous or mainstream >categories, of course. How many of us poets are free of such complications? >I doubt when it comes down to it very few of us are. And I'm scared of >those left over. :) > >Even an emoticon seems both genuine and disingenuous simultaneously. > >A poem from anyone seems to me a ploy, a stratagem, whether it be for >self-expression, self-denial, cash, or anything in between, even if the poem >de-ploys the ployishness of a poem. Even that sort of (perhaps >deconstructive) poem is still is in itself that gesture of desire for >something or other. Even a randomly generated computer poem falls into that >category of being in some way a ploy. Something disingenuous always seems >to be present in a poem. Assonance, for example. Formal stricture. Poetic >diction. Displaying it in an audience. Etc. Maybe even the very formation >or use of any word, in any context, through any medium, for that matter. > >Please forgive me if I'm beginning to sound like Stuart Smalley. You know >the SNL character: "I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and, Doggone it, >People Like Me..." > >P > >-----Original Message----- >From: Maria Damon [mailto:damon001@umn.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:06 AM >To: patrick@proximate.org; UB Poetics discussion group >Subject: Re: disingeuous > > >well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >wanting to be praised for it! > >At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >> >>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>for an audience. " >> >> >>BUT >> >>Maria (Hi!), >> >>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a >private >>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for >candor >>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above >statement. >> >>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am >just >>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>performance. >> >>Yours, >>Patrick > > >-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:17:53 -0700 >From: George Bowering >Subject: Re: pepsi > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "George Bowering" >> >> >>> Pepsi is not dangerous? >> >> >>This is not true :-) There is an urban ledged going around town that Pepsi >>is going to be the next terrorist attack. The tale (as I have heard it many >>times from different people have many variations but) goes something like >>this: A person goes into a store and helps out an older foreign woman and >>she is so impressed with this person's random act of kindness that she tells >>the person to not drink Pepsi anymore and it will soon be poison. Go figure >>:-) >> >>Best, Geoffrey > >Quick, tell Amiri! >-- >George Bowering >Has terrible bed hair. >Fax 604-266-9000 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:45:05 -0800 >From: "J. Scappettone" >Subject: Holloway Poetry Series presents Forrest Hamer and Angie Yuan, 12/3 > >Forrest Hamer will be reading in UC-Berkeley's Holloway Poetry Series on >December 3 at 6 pm in the Maud Fife Room (Wheeler Hall, Room 315, on the >Third Floor) on the University campus > > > Forrest Hamer is the author of Call & Response (Alice James Books, >1995), >winner of the Beatrice Hawley Award, and Middle Ear (Roundhouse, 2000), >winner of the Bay Area Book Reviewers Association (BABRA) Award. His work >has appeared in many journals, and has been anthologized in Best American >Poetry, Poet's Choice: Poems for Everyday Life, The Geography of Home: >California=3DB9s Poetry of Place, and Making Callaloo: 25 Years of Black >Literature. Hamer is also a Bay Area psychologist and a lecturer at the >University of California, Berkeley. > > The event will begin with a reading by Angie Yuan, who is a graduate >student in the Asian Studies Department studying modern Chinese literature >and translation practices in contemporary Chinese poetry. She received her >MFA from the University of Arizona in 1996 and is currently working on a >first collection of poetry. > > Colloquium with the poets begins at 4:30 p.m. in the English Dept. >Lounge, >330 Wheeler Hall > > Readings begin at 6 pm, Maud Fife Room, 315 Wheeler Hall, UC Berkele=3D >y > > Free and open to the public > >------------------------------ > >End of POETICS Digest - 25 Nov 2002 to 26 Nov 2002 (#2002-288) >************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:33:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: the war In-Reply-To: <3DE5E738@webmail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable twelve dove waiting another night at war complete with ballyhoo and mumbling language in=20 the hallway of excess ; or, excuse me why I get some change for the=20 slop machine. the stop macine, the crap shoot, =93did you see the latest=20= double hobbit O seven scaly waggin' the tips off the back bone clear to=20= the clitoris in my brain ; a little mustard, foie-gras and yellow=20 individually wrapped cheese to go thank you ; =93oh that=92s just the = war=20 honey, I dream of jeannie is on one of five hundred channels at least=20 40 times a day during the ten days till d day, ground zero, raped and=20 killed, said to be crossdressed (they must have deserved it), millions=20= have disappeared, some say the blood ran in the streets, 90 to 100=20 thousand __________ killed in a single instant by a single bomb, more=20 later on 40 days and 40 night of vacation time, plus or minus value per=20= hour per each and every freedon loving; teaching, cleaning toilets,=20 plugging holes in dikes, buddy can you spare a dime, if they would only=20= get a job, sign on the double white line, be good little boys and=20 girls, lett the government pick their sex for them at birth, then act=20= and spell female and male correctly, then they can fuck there brains=20 out, make babies, fuck there kids brains out, make a living, buy a=20 house, beat each other into submission, go into debt, buy a car, a=20 microwave, buy holiday presents, die of breast cancer, nike shoes for=20 babies ; there sooo cute and adorable, did you get that new mini van=20 yet ; yes, and I just love it, we can put on a dvd and the children=20 just sit there and we can travel for hours ; its one of the wonders of=20= modern technology.= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:37:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: TYPO In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit eyoye ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:47:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Lewis Subject: Channukah Poetry Reading at The Poetry Project-12/4 Comments: To: BlueGhost Comments: cc: JuneAvignone@aol.com, richard.barr@roche.com, blueghost09@yahoo.com, Cborkhuis@aol.com, Mybrown2000@aol.com, zonehenge@yahoo.com, Cartelld@aol.com, kipperwhite@yahoo.com, keyofz@mindspring.com, dalonzocm@hotmail.com, toodledoo27@hotmail.com, jdavis@panix.com, talismaned@aol.com, MGarland@ishinc.com, gkenny@hfmus.com, ogilbert@erols.com, lilycloud9@yahoo.com, HAYES430@aol.com, Nuyopoman@aol.com, mjenkins@loudjane.com, lillal@earthlink.net, chrismeilicke@netzero.net, hollymetz@earthlink.net, millers@stjohns.edu, MuratNN@aol.com, kgoreilly@aol.com, simonp@pipeline.com, rporton@mindspring.com, TRipma3036@aol.com, esaenger@attglobal.net, michaelsx@earthlink.net, dshot@mindspring.com, edsmith@lmxac.org, gps12@columbia.edu, tsscordo@juno.com, bzav@earthlink.net Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Joel Lewis & DOUGLAS ROTHSCHILD poetry reading WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 4 @8PM POETRY PROJECT/ST. MARKS CHURCH 2ND AV & 10TH STREET, MANHATTAN FREE DREIDELS! HANNUKAH GELT! POETRY!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:00:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Humorism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Maybe what Aaron means by pure humorist is a professional humorist, someone with a regular humor-writing gig or someone who freelances humor pieces regularly ... in other words, Robert Benchley, Fran Liebowitz, James Thurber, P.J. O’Rourke. It might not be helpful or illuminating, but I do think there's a distinction between these writers and, say, Laurence Stern, or Charles Bernstein. Charles once wrote or said that he would never sacrifice whatever he was doing formally (artistically?) for a joke, and I think he was making a distinction between what he was doing (poetry) from some idea of "humor" or a "humorist"; and though I think humorists pretty much feel the same way (it's not that Veronica Geng ever sacrificed anything for a joke, her writing was very "artful"), I do think there’s a difference of sensibility, ambition, and/or intention between, like, Bob Perelman and S.J. Perelman. I wouldn't quite know how to describe it, though. Like, I don't think it's quite so simple as that Bob is consciously writing for some higher whatever and S.J. Pereleman just assumed what he did to be literary chopped liver written for laffs. Anyway, the total joke sacrifice seems more like something a stand-up comedian would (necessarily) do ... and I’d also make a distinction between humorists and stand-up comedians; although, for instance, Woody Allen started as a stand-up comedian, then became a humorist (successfully recycling the kinds of moves Benchley had made decades before him), and then a filmmaker. I think of Bob and Ray as humorists and Monty Python as a comedy troupe and the Firesign Theater as satirists. I mean, when I’m in a distinction-making mood. Firesign Theater being very much of their time and medium; Monty Python being very much of their medium; and Bob and Ray being ... well, Bob and Ray. They don't seem to have aged in the same way that Firesign Theater (who I still love) did. Monty Python worked very well on TV but not so well in the movies--although most people would probably disagree with me on that one. But Bob and Ray I think work equally well on the radio, on TV, on the page. (Although, obviously, part of the Bob and Ray thing is that they never tried to make their female or child voices sound like women or children.) I think less people know about Bob and Ray than Monty Python or Firesign Theater. Or, maybe that's just my sense. My favorite humorist, "pure" humorist, was Miles na gCopaleen. I think it’s even fair to call him a pure humorist, even though he (Brian O’Nolan) wrote quote serious unquote novels under his other pseudonym, Flann O’Brien. But, his column for the Irish Times was definitely a "pure humorist" column if ever there was one. A good example maybe was his often revisted "Catechism of Cliche": "What does pandemonium do? It breaks loose. Describe its subsequent dominion. It reigns." etc. My favorite stuff of his was this kind of social criticism he'd do, always about the Irish (naturally): from ST. PATRICK'S DAY SIGNAL BOX SCENE: Jimmy is sitting down, engrossed in a newspaper. Ignatius is lolling on another chair, smoking. Jimmy shakes head and gestures at paper. He looks up, frowning. JIMMY: Yiss. Saint Patrick's Day. Dya know, we might all be makin a mistake, a HIDYUS mistake. The brother says there was never anny such man as Saint Patrick. IGNATIUS:Ah come here now, Jimmy, the national Apostle. That's no sort of talk to be givin out of you. JIMMY: I'm oney tellin ya what the brother says. So far as I'm consairned, I have always been all FOR St. Patrick's Day. I think I've seen more Patrick's Dayu processions than anny man alive. What am I talkin about--didn't I walk in TWO of them. Th'oul fella was an Irish Forester with a green clawhammer on him and in nineteen and O twelve he med me step out in the brigade of the Glasnevin Branch of the Gaelic League with A KILT ON ME, man yiss, and a pipe band in front of us playing the Rakes of Malla. IGN: That must have ben a great sight--yerself in kilts and a plaad over yer shoulder and the big knobbly knees on full display for all to see. JIMMY: Oh now I looked damm well in them days. But th'oul fella would do yer heart good. There was no half measure there. He was a Forester, a Parnelite,a Votes-for Wimmin man, a Larkinite and a Gaelic Leaguer. ... Etc., etc. (see http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bj333/HomePage.flann.html for the rest of this "play") I actually used to love the fact that humorists weren’t canonized, that you had to find out about them on your own, in used bookstores, usually. (No longer true for na cGopaleen, who Dalkey Archive, named after one of O'Brien's novels, has put back into print in the U.S.) "Discovering" a book by Veronica Geng in Green Apple on Clement Street, S.F., in 1986 or 87, was totally thrilling. (I admittedly don’t get out much.) And even moreso, all of those old Robert Benchley hardcovers (My Ten Years in a Quandry, etc.), which even in the 80s were going for $20-$30, a huge sum for a guy washing dishes and prepping restaurant food for living. I remember being saddened when I read that Geng had died, not long after I moved to NYC. There wasn't really anyone to talk to about that, because no one I knew knew who she was. She’d been fired from the New Yorker back in the early nineties after Tina Brown took over, and it seemed like she just disappeared. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:34:32 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Humorism MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Gary, I was thinking about humor the way you are. Yes, there's a comic element that shoots through all writing, in some way or other--as in Dickens, which has a great deal of comedy, or in say Allen Ginsberg, who has his schtick, or even Wallace Stevens, who is definitely funny. Russell Edson is funny in an unnerving way I admire. I'm not thinking about these kind of writers, who *incorporate* the comic element, but those who specialize in it. Writers who are out for a laugh and little more. Not even really satirists who have a political or social objective, but jokesters, comedians, of a more domestic variety. Dave Barry. Woody Allen's "Without Feathers" etc. Bob & Ray, yes. James Thurber. Ogden Nash. Twain's friends: Nasby, Billings, Ward of the lecture circuit. I don't know historical literature well enough to follow the trail back any further. My observation is that jokers are pretty much sidelined when it comes to literary history or school studies. They tend to be relegated to history in some way-- sociological history, cultural studies, etc. But a writer like Mark Twain gets plucked from history and studied in high school English, because he's a "serious" writer. Here's a quotation from an article in the Nov 18, 1917 New York Times: "Those belated readers who may even now think of Mark Twain as a mere fun-maker, to be classed carelessly with John Phoenix and Artemus Ward and Josh Billings, will find in these letters cause to revise hasty judgment and to recognize the depth and nobility of Mark Twain's nature. A humorist he was from the beginning to the end; but at the end humor was no longer the dominant element in his work. He made men laugh as no one else was able to do so abundantly in the final twoscore years of the nineteenth century; but his laughter was never forced or trivial or accidental. His humor was rooted in and flowered out of a deep and abiding melancholy; and at the end of his life he was as serious and as sad at heart as Swift or Cervantes or Moliere. His tenderness is beautifully displayed in the letters to his wife, of which Mr. Paine allows us to read only a few, simple and sincere in their direct expression of a love which began at first sight and which grew steadily with the years." I think there's something in our very notion of "literature" that excludes jokes, burlesques, comical sketch writing. Or is it that humor is too closely connected with immediate experience -- temporal manifestation of human culture-- so that over time it expires? It's not funny any more? Maybe joking grows stale? Will there be a future culture who will not laugh at Monty Python? Or perhaps not laugh as hard as we do? Yours without a struggle, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: No Such Thing As a Conspiracy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's all sound smart, shall we? I mean, let's be reasonable. Shall we? No such thing as a conspiracy. I mean, no reason in any suggestion of a conspiracy. I'm too educated to buy any of those paranoid conspiracy theories. For example, Enron was purely a series of cloying plodding accidents. Let's keep this all in moderation. So too is Kissinger's appointment to the 9/11 probe. To suggest otherwise would merely be self-indulgent. Allende anyone? http://cryptome.org/chile-plot.htm Let's maintain a sense of proportion. Follow the yellow brick road. Follow. Follow. Follow. Follow. Not evidence of a conspiracy: just a series of well-meaning gestures that accidentally appear to look like a conspiracy, but of course appearing as such only to those paranoid types. Just a conincidence: no extradition to Chile, and now this new job. Purely coincidence, Henry. Let us please remain reasonable. No such thing as a conspiracy. Silly conspiracy-minded people. Obviously you conspiracy-minded paranoiacs should just stick to X-Files. Silly fools. No such thing as a conspiracy. We decent sane smart people all know that. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:39:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: No Such Thing As a Conspiracy In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Saturday, November 30, 2002, at 01:48 PM, Patrick Herron wrote: ...Not evidence of a conspiracy: just a series of well-meaning gestures=20= that > accidentally appear to look like a conspiracy, but of course appearing=20= > as > such > only to those paranoid types. or, as william burroughs used to say, "a paranoid is a man [& woman,=20 I'd add] who knows the facts." > Pierre ___________________________________________________________ + Freedom for the people of the Social Forum arrested in Italy /=20 Libert=E0 per i compagni del Social Forum arrestati in Italia ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:00:32 -0800 Reply-To: wordthur@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rodgers Subject: DECEMBER LITTREE UPDATE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Friends, We've made several changes to the NYS Literary Curators Web Site, brought to you by Bright Hill Press in partnership with the New York State Council on the Arts, and found at http://www.nyslittree.org: 1) added several new poets and writers added to both the Circuit Writers and Interstate Writers page; 2) added many more events, easy to access because we've input them by region; 3) added organizations; 4) added poems and other writings to the September 11, 2001 page 5) we'll be making more changes in 2003, and hope you'll continue to check out the site! 6) if you have events you'd like to add; if you're a published writer who'd like to be on the Circuit or Interstate Writers page; if you have any questions or comments, contact us at wordthur@catskill.net. Have a well-read December, and a very Literary New Year! Bertha Rogers and Jema Abbate, (Bright Hill's new program assistant) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:36:50 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Humorism MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Here's a typically bombastic essay by Mencken on humor, "our national literature," and Mark Twain's relationship to these things. One thing he doesn't mention is the role of the "pure humorist" in literary history. I'm interested to know the fate of humorists who never really lapse into a serious mode--whether they last, or fade away with yesterday's headlines. -Aaron + + + + + + + The Burden of Humor By H. L. Mencken The Smart Set 38 (Feb. 1913). --------------------------------------------------------------------- What is the origin of the prejudice against humor? Why is it so dangerous, if you would keep the public confidence, to make the public laugh? Is it because humor and sound sense are essentially antagonistic? Has humanity found by experience that the man who sees the fun of life is unfitted to deal sanely with its problems? I think not. No man had more of the comic spirit in him than William Shakespeare, and yet his serious reflections, by the sheer force of their sublime obviousness, have pushed their way into the race's arsenal of immortal platitudes. So, too, with Aesop, and with Lincoln and Johnson, to come down the scale. All of these men were humorists, and yet all of them performed prodigies of indubitable wisdom. And contrariwise, many an undeniable pundit has had his guffaw. Huxley, if he had not been the greatest intellectual duellist of his age, might have been its greatest wit. And Beethoven, after soaring to the heights of tragedy in the first movement of the Fifth Symphony, turned to the divine fooling, the irresistible bull-fiddling of the scherzo. No, there is not the slightest disharmony between sense and humor and respectability, despite the almost universal tendency to assume that there is. But, why, then, that widespread error? What actual fact of life lies behind it, giving it a specious appearance of reasonableness? None other, I am convinced, than the fact that the average man is far too stupid to make a joke. He may see a joke and love a joke, particularly when it floors and flabbergasts some person he dislikes, but the only way he can himself take part in the priming and pointing of a new one is by acting as its target. In brief, his personal contact with humor tends to fill him with an accumulated sense of disadvantage, of pricked complacency, of sudden and crushing defeat; and so, by an easy psychological process, he is led into the idea that the thing itself is incompatible with true dignity of character and intellect. Hence his deep suspicion of jokers, however their thrusts. "What a damphool!" -- this same half-pitying tribute he pays to wit and butt alike. He cannot separate the virtuoso of comedy from his general concept of comedy itself, and that concept is inextricably mixed with memories of foul ambuscades and mortifying hurts. And so it is not often that he is willing to admit any wisdom in a humorist, or to condone frivolity in a sage. In all this, I believe, there is a plausible explanation of the popular, and even of the critical attitude toward the late Samuel Langhorne Clemens (Mark Twain). Unless I am so wholly mistaken that my only expiation lies in suicide, Mark was the noblest literary artist who ever set pen to paper on American soil, and not only the noblest artist, but also one of the most profound and sagacious philosophers. From the beginning of his maturity down to his old age he dealt constantly and earnestly with the deepest problems of life and living, and to his consideration of them he brought a truly amazing instinct for the truth, an almost uncanny talent for ridding the essential thing of its deceptive husks of tradition, prejudice, flubdub and balderdash. No man, not even Nietzsche, ever did greater execution against those puerilities of fancy which so many men mistake for religion, and over which they are so eager to dispute and break heads. No man had a keener eye for that element of pretense which is bound to intrude itself into all human thinking, however serious, however painstaking, however honest in intent. And yet, because the man had humor as well as acumen, because he laughed at human weakness instead of weeping over it, because he turned now and then from the riddle of life to the joy of life -- because of this habit of mind it is the custom to regard him lightly and somewhat apologetically, as one debarred from greatness by unfortunate infirmities. William Dean Howells probably knew him better than any other human being, but in all that Howells has written about him one is conscious of a conditioned admiration, of a subtle fear of allowing him too much merit, of an ineradicable disinclination to take him quite seriously. The Mark that Howells draws is not so much a great artist as a glorious enfant terrible. And even William Lyon Phelps, a hospitable and penetrating critic, wholly loose of orthodox shackles -- even Phelps hems and haws a bit before putting Mark above Oliver Wendell Holmes, and is still convinced that "The Scarlet Letter" is an incomparably finer work of art than "Huckleberry Finn." Well, such notions will die hard, but soon or late, I am sure, they will inevitably die. So certain am I, indeed, of their dying that I now formally announce their death in advance, and prepare to wait in patience for the delayed applause. In one of his essays Dr. Phelps shows how critical opinion of Mark has gradually evolved from scorn into indifference, and from indifference into toleration, and from toleration into apologetic praise, and from apologetic praise into hearty praise. The stage of unqualified enthusiasm is coming -- it has already cast its lights before England -- and I am very glad to join the lodge as a charter member. Let me now set down my faith, for the literary archeologists of day after tomorrow: I believe that "Huckleberry Finn" is one of the great masterpieces of the world, that it is the full equal of "Don Quixote" and "Robinson Crusoe," that it is vastly better than "Gil Blas," "Tristram Shandy," "Nicholas Nickleby" or "Tom Jones." I believe that it will be read by human beings of all ages, not as a solemn duty but for the honest love of it, and over and over again, long after every book written in America between the years 1800 and 1860, with perhaps three exceptions, has disappeared entirely save as a classroom fossil. I believe that Mark Twain had a clearer vision of life, that he came nearer to its elementals and was less deceived by its false appearances, than any other American who has ever presumed to manufacture generalizations, not excepting Emerson. I believe that, admitting all his defects, he wrote better English, in the sense of cleaner, straighter, vivider, saner English, than either Irving or Hawthorne. I believe that four of his books -- "Huck," "Life on the Mississippi," "Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven," and "A Connecticut Yankee" -- are alone worth more, as works of art and as criticisms of life, than the whole output of Cooper, Irving, Holmes, Mitchell, Stedman, Whittier and Bryant. I believe that he ranks well above Whitman and certainly not below Poe. I believe that he was the true father of our national literature, the first genuinely American artist of the blood royal. Such is my feeling at the moment, and such has been my feeling for many a moon. If any gentleman in the audience shares it, either wholly or with qualifications, then I advise him to buy and read the biography of Mark lately published by Albert Bigelow Paine (Harper), for therein he will find an elaborate, painstaking and immensely interesting portrait of the man, and sundry shrewd observations upon the writer. Not that I agree with Paine in all his judgments. Far from it, indeed. It seems to me that he gets bogged hopelessly when he tries to prove that "The Innocents Abroad" is a better book than "A Tramp Abroad," that he commits a crime when he puts "Joan of Arc" above "Huck Finn," and that he is too willing to join Howells and other such literary sacristans in frowning down upon Mark's clowning, his weakness for vulgarity, his irrepressible maleness. In brief, Paine is disposed, at times, to yield to current critical opinion against what must be his own good sense. But when you have allowed for all this -- and it is not obtrusive -- the thing that remains is a vivid and sympathetic biography, a book with sound merit in every chapter of it, a mountain of difficulties triumphantly surmounted, a fluent and excellent piece of writing. Paine tells everything that is worth hearing, whether favorable to Mark or the reverse, and leaves out all that is not worth hearing. One closes the third volume with unbounded admiration for the industry of the biographer, and with no less admiration for his frankness and sagacity. He has given us a rich and colorful book, presenting coherently a wise selection from a perfect chaos of materials. The Mark Twain that emerges from it is almost as real as Huckleberry Finn. And what a man that Mark Twain was! How he stood above and apart from the world, like Rabelais come to life again, observing the human comedy, chuckling over the eternal fraudulence of man! What a sharp eye he had for the bogus, in religion, politics, art, literature, patriotism, virtue! What contempt he emptied upon shams of all sorts -- and what pity! Mr. Paine reveals for us very clearly, by quotation and exposition, his habitual attitude of mind. He regarded all men as humbugs, but as humbugs to be dealt with gently, as humbugs too often taken in and swindled by their own humbuggery. He saw how false reasoning, false assumptions, false gods had entered into the very warp and woof of their thinking; how impossible it was for them to attack honestly the problems of being; how helpless they were in the face of life's emergencies. And seeing all this, he laughed at them, but not often with malice. What genuine indignation he was capable of was leveled at life itself and not at its victims. Through all his later years the riddle of existence was ever before him. He thought about it constantly; he discussed it with everyone he knew; he made copious notes of his speculations. But he never came to any soothing custom-made conclusion. The more he examined life, the more it appeared to him to be without meaning, and even without direction; the more he pondered upon the idea of God, the more a definite idea of God eluded him. In the end, as Mr. Paine tells us, he verged toward a hopeless pessimism. Death seemed to him a glad release, an inestimable boon. When his daughter Jean died, suddenly, tragically, he wrote to her sister: "I am so glad she is out of it and safe -- safe!" It is this reflective, philosophizing Clemens who stands out most clearly in Mr. Paine's book. In his own works, our glimpses of him are all too brief. His wife and his friends opposed his speculations, perhaps wisely, for the artist might have been swallowed up in the sage. But he wrote much to please himself and left a vast mass of unpublished manuscript behind him. Certainly it is to be hoped that these writings will see the light, and before long. One book described by Mr. Paine, "Three Thousand Years Among the Microbes," would appear to be a satire so mordant and so large in scale that his admirers have a plain right to demand its publication. And there should be a new edition, too, of his confession of doubt, "What is Man?" of which a few copies were printed for private distribution in 1905. Yet again we have a right to ask for most if not all of his unpublished stories and sketches, many of which were suppressed at the behest of Mrs. Clemens, for reasons no longer worth considering. There is good ground for believing that his reputation will gain rather than suffer by the publication of these things, and in any case it can withstand the experiment, for "Huck Finn" and "Life on the Mississippi" and the "Connecticut Yankee" will remain, and so long as they remain there can be no question of the man's literary stature. He was one of the great artists of all time. He was the full equal of Cervantes and Moliere, Swift and Defoe. He was and is one authentic giant of our national literature. http://www.boondocksnet.com/twaintexts/mencken1302.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:47:25 -0800 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: Humorism: A Joking Word MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks Gary for this--- I think that the distinction you make especially toward the end between "the higher whatever" and "literary chopped liver" is something that you, for instance, are very good at breaking down--- Yea, verily, there's a stigma about "humour in poetry" as it is often derided as "light verse" or "not even poetry" by some. For me, it's a question of "purism" that claims perhaps religious or sublime seriousness, often cold, can not exist alongside of humor. such as Dr. Johnson (and even Emerson) being upset that Shakespeare had all these sublime moments and then all this fool talk, or people today who invoke Stevens but don't see his humour Or of course there's many examples today of such slighting of humorist moments in "higher whatever" poetry--- but it does seem to me that the laugh can include the sublime much more than the sublime can include the laugh i don't want to be dogmatic about the laugh--- i don't think it can be written by formula "a jest's prosperity lies in the ear" (love's labour's lost) and sometimes so called "serious" poetry does make me laugh much more than allegedly intentionally funny poetry (I think Laura Riding is a very funny poet, and also among the most serious...) i think the best laughs, like the best moments of high seriousness, happen when they happen, and can't be forced but i think a lot of folks are told to EDIT out their humour (or "what may be perceived as humour") so as not to "sacrifice" what? the purity of the poem? the old high toned christain? or high toned secular? or high toned leftist? or high-toned fragment? an attempt to draw a "a line in the sand" as Bush once put it? and then these folks, rather humourlously, complain about why poetry is so marginalized (they often try to edit those complaints out of their poetry too---so it just shows up in their secret gossipy quips-- all the while being championed as the "higher whatever") Once I asked a Language poet who I admire what he thought of a more "mainstream" poet who I admire who has a reputation for being funny, and this language poet said "oh, he's too into the easy joke" a few years later, I asked a famous critic (known for championing a lot of the language poets) what she thought of the above language poet who said the "mainstream poet" was too into the "easy joke" and she said, "X is not a language poet, he's a writer of light verse" (draw your own conclusions from this....) So, there's a weird relatively--- just as with the seeming opposite "high seriousness" for instance, back in days, when I hung with some serious DUNCAN-HEADS and they measured Duncan's greatness as his visionary sublimity, etc. and I, preferring Ashbery, would often defend Ashbery as doing all that Duncan does in those terms (and I do find Ashbery to be more visionary sublime---in a non-pejorative sense--than Duncan). So, too, in terms of humour. It's not always where you think it's going to be. oh well, here i am talking about humour in ways that probably aren't funny enough.... does anybody here feel or think poetry can be "legitimately" called "cathartic" now-a-days? Chris Gary Sullivan wrote: > Maybe what Aaron means by pure humorist is a professional humorist, someone > with a regular humor-writing gig or someone who freelances humor pieces > regularly ... in other words, Robert Benchley, Fran Liebowitz, James > Thurber, P.J. O’Rourke. It might not be helpful or illuminating, but I do > think there's a distinction between these writers and, say, Laurence Stern, > or Charles Bernstein. Charles once wrote or said that he would never > sacrifice whatever he was doing formally (artistically?) for a joke, and I > think he was making a distinction between what he was doing (poetry) from > some idea of "humor" or a "humorist"; and though I think humorists pretty > much feel the same way (it's not that Veronica Geng ever sacrificed anything > for a joke, her writing was very "artful"), I do think there’s a difference > of sensibility, ambition, and/or intention between, like, Bob Perelman and > S.J. Perelman. I wouldn't quite know how to describe it, though. Like, I > don't think it's quite so simple as that Bob is consciously writing for some > higher whatever and S.J. Pereleman just assumed what he did to be literary > chopped liver written for laffs. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:31:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Humorism: A Joking Word / legitimately cathartic? Comments: To: cstroffo@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <3DE923DD.E0E52AF3@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT on 11/30/02 12:47 PM, Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino at cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > does anybody here feel or think poetry can be "legitimately" > called "cathartic" now-a-days? This seems like either a legitimate question or a legitimate confusion. My Google - for "cathartic" says: Cathartic: The aim of a cathartic intervention is to facilitate the release or discharge of emotions in the other person. A major part of personal development work is educating the client or participant to find ways of releasing blocked energy so that it can be used more constructively and creatively. (Most of the other Googled definitions given, by the way, are medical of which many pertain to relief of constipated bowels) For "catharsis", however, the definition is more as a literary device: catharsis {Gk. kaqarsiV [katharsis]} Cleansing from guilt or defilement; hence, in Aristotle, the elimination of destructive emotions through appreciation of an aesthetic experience. The notion here is that vicariously experiencing strong feelings renders us less likely to be overcome by them in our own lives. For "legitimate", Mr. Google offers the following for the literary: Authorized; real; genuine; not false, counterfeit, or spurious; as, legitimate poems of Chaucer; legitimate inscriptions. And maybe, more interestingly: relating to plays acted by professional actors but not including revues, burlesque, or some forms of musical comedy (i.e., humor??) I guess I want to ask you, Chris, whose work might you be referring to or that you read 'in the past' that you found to be "legitimately carthartic" from the point of view of the reading experience. & what made it so? Or, from the writing point of view, what does it mean to finish a poem and have a sense that a "legitimate catharsis" has occurred. One feels: a. better/relieved, b. a political opponent has been vanquished, c. an inner-emotional and/or intellectual knot has dissolved, d. a vague search has materialized in a visible language that carries a weight similar to a legal validation and authority?? Any, all or more than the above?? Is there some assumption that a "legitimate catharsis" represents a permanent removal of its previous state of sabotage (the shoe in the gut). And what makes you wonder - if you are - that such work is no longer so possible? Or, in light of the "humor" discussion, is there a suggestion here that humor and foolery are the only way to cope in say, for example, what some may see as a futile landscape - the dark, Beckett-edged stage? Excuse my speculative ramble - legitimately or not, it just got me thinking (I think!) Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:23:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Stephens Subject: Further Glibness Re Lilly, Prozac, and Inequality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0248/clover.php ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:27:22 -0330 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: phrases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII there was talk on this list a few weeks ago about finding the origins of phrases, sayings, quotes and cliches. when i went looking for the origin of "the shot heard around the world" i found The Phrase Finder http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/index.html kind of a fun distraction. cheerio, kevin -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, Henry Kissenger is charge of the 9/11 probe! That's like putting Robert Mugabe in charge of the Department of Agriculture. from "Get Your War On" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:57:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Damian Judge Rollison Subject: Re: Humorists in the "canon"? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I'd suggest that journalistic humor (from early Twain to Dave Barry and Woody Allen, whose short pieces were originally published as so-called "casuals" in the New Yorker) fulfills too few of the New Critical conditions to be taken as it were seriously in the classroom or in lit crit. (I mean this as a neutral observation, not a critique of humor.) High seriousness would be less important here than difficulty, paradox, thorny symbolism, the delayed payoff, the sense (as Rene Girard put it) that criticism completes the "implicit or already half-explicit systems" at work in the text. We tend to want to teach and to demonstrate techniques of interpretation that derive from that model, even when the inheritance isn't being acknowledged (New Criticism is often gestured to w/ a kind of superficial disparagement, as Jed Rasula points out). Trying to teach Robert Benchley or Woody Allen we would be left with not enough to tease out -- and I think this is still true if to a lesser extent for the "rejection of closure" critical stance that comes out of Language. Isn't humor more about culture than about form? (In the New Critical sense -- humor's about form in the mythic/structuralist sense, yeah, but that's form as cultural residuum.) There's surely a place for humor as an artifact in cultural studies -- you could write a dissertation on Seinfeld if you wanted to, in fact I wouldn't be suprised if someone has, just as a guy I knew was planning to write one on the speeches of Ronald Reagan. But cultural studies operates largely outside the question of a canon (or depends on a theoretical canon rather than an artistic one). One could maybe do Freudian readings, feminist readings, Marxist readings. To some extent these too depend on the New Critical paradigm -- Freudian readings want enigmatic dreamtexts to solve, e.g. -- but I did see a fairly convincing rundown of critical modes recently, in the Bedford 6th ed. teacher's companion, that used a humorous New Yorker piece by Joseph Epstein as its test case. Pedantically, Damian <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< damian judge rollison department of english university of virginia djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:12:25 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "richard.tylr" Subject: Re: the war (and a little goss re Amiri B) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Phil. Passions run high on this/these issues, and some of us are divided even though (eg I admire Antin, Silliman,Perloff, and Nick Piombino but know (and dont expect of course) that they often disagree with my "positions" - in fact re "terrorism" that one is always going to be problematic, because if you condone or support or try to say "well the US (and other Imperialist Nations' )policies have been bad etc etc even I am expecting someone to say to me "But what if your daughter/son was killed in Bali?" (where I initially thought) (still possible) that it was an act of agent provaocateurs...and "What about children and so on being killed"...what about these "suicide bombers" ..how can you condone that: and so on...and its pretty heavy because in this present stage of the War against Imperialism it seems to the ( not very politically well-educated: or with relatively simplistic understandings of the way capitialism/imperialism works) that any one even "explaining" terrorism (maybe read independence fighting or commando actions or independence activism or violent revolutionary acts or counterattacks or Liberation Struggles) that we are theoretic armchair monstors: but we have to analyse and think about what are the fundamental forces at work here (its impossible to be unemotional - the force of our debate is because we like everyone else are emotionally battered by the physical and psychological horror of these events ( Vietnam to the Philipines to Indonesia (the millions killed there and the ongoing exploitaion) Iraq (the terrible effect of the embargoes, Iraq in 1990 to Yugoslavia to S11 to Afghanistan to Mombassa)) ...but thus the vehemence and sometimes extremity of some of my statements: I was also concerned that somehow Ron Silliman etc (while he used the dialectic of Marxism in his poems and writings) and he and others talked of the non-commodification of the word, the need for the foregrounding of the signifier , and so on (and while he and David Antin Nick Piombino and others) were all in various ways very courageously and sometimes energetically "political" (Nick burnt his draftcard, Atin's talk poems etc , Ron was I believe a visitor to prisons etc and also in the anti- (Vietnam War) protests, I had a sense that the marxist component [that somewhat it wasnt translating into positive political action although how or why that should ocur I'm not sure myself] (of course this political aspect is not the only one in Language poetry of which I am a big "fan" or I like the Langpos and the many offshoots (dont like/believe in Social Realism (especially the Soviet worst) examples) - am even a bit dubious of Amiri Baraka (although I havent met the guy) [ BUT WAIT -THERE"S MORE A story about AMIRI BARAKA!!!] and I agree/disagree with Alan Sondheim who I think is tapping into some kind of language - wrapped complex which sends out "psychic" messages which are "repetitions" (and echoes) one thinks of the conceptual artists eg Haacke and Bueys and the Jenny Holtzer and others (of course there is a lot more going on in Alan's project which I cant touch on here) is on one level highly political-social in its approach (there are also sexual-political and certain ontological-phenomelogical things going on with vaying degrees of Alanness incorporated): somewhow though I wonder what is the raisins d'etre of all this stuff (this is something that applies to my own writing such as it is, so I'm not just pointing at the Langpos eg my poem RED is, or seems to be as far as I can assess it, is VERY non-referential and for a long time I was almost scornflul of political poets (especially of the Amiri Baraka type) (as eventually there have to be some things that transcend - are transcendent: we need some rest from the relentless "realities", some magic: that is another thirst: in fact it may be why "magic realism" came form South America and so on....not sure what I'm tapping into here) (by the way I'm found Joyce Carol Oates "Bellfeur" a more realist magic realism) to be in my opinion a possible greater writer(ing) than Marquez (greater not the right word I say that to draw attention to her) is a brilliant work, and her short stories some of which have been made into films, and "You Must Remember This"): so I'm not saying to Barrett Watten ..hey man , cut all the crap..all those long words...I LOVE the complexities, the fantastic , the opaque...I hate it when they say on our concert progrmamme "And your work is [music - contemproary] (I know its a dirty word) transparent - ooh there'll be letters" (its a cop out that word "transaprency") and I share with Nick and others the desire to enter into the gnomic, the magical almost, the conceptual: the world of intellection and the world of pleasure, in fact I carry his lates t ptose poetry book around with nmme in my jacket and have read most of them....). - some of which is possibly a tranfigured physical pleasure and becomes for me very much a pure love of words and word forms and their components and configurations. But it is not true that poets are not concerned ONLY with words and concepts and so on: although that is their main "job" (just as numbers and symbols and quantites and forces etc are the domainnof physicists and mathematicians) (I dont know your field or the extent of your knowledge: I'm just spouting ...you may know all this and more): but there are corss-over points between all disciplines -although these are not always obvious: up to S11 I didnt want to know about the political side of things very much; I was quite discconnected form "reality" and so on. But since S11 [does there need to be a connection? is it eh "global villgae " we are in etc? ] one realise that it - disconnection - can become a kind of hermetic madness (in to srong doses!) ....Aporia ..is that the right term?: its one that John Geraets who is and innovative writer "down under" has used recently in a throeretical statement/discussion to BRIEF mag (which Chris Stroffololino was published in ) (and I would like others to contribute - contact me - and also some of the diassafected who have left over the Loney-Geraets-Ross split (!!) ( a bit of "down under poetics-politics" )....But its good you are taking an interest in the debate and so on: and showing your students poems on this list etc it is not just all vapid nothings in Cyberland ! And yet to some extent I can see Niclk and others' resistance to being bullied (by the left and the right: and the need for aporia or some disconnectedness so to speak): but some counter bullying may be necessary...maybe. On a slightly comic note: my friend who is a published poet was a couple of years back at a poetry festival in South America and at the end of various readings Amiri Baraka said, summing things up,(to the effect) "I have heard some of the best poetry read here, some of the very best declamations and work, but yours" he here turmed to my friend, "was the WORST I've ever heard!!!" !! Later he apoligised: actually the person to whom I refer..well he reads in a way that is often quite artificial...oh well, there's a bit of gossip and shadenfreude for you! I've ;eft all the other stuff as I think it may be useful for others who want to look back aat this thread: thanks for your input. Richard Taylor (NZ: Aotearoa ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "pmetres" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 4:50 AM Subject: Re: the war Hey all, I've found this list to be a consistently rewarding experience, though I've remained largely a silent participant. I wanted to pick up the thread spun out and cat's-cradled by Taylor, Watten, Piombino, Vincent, and others regarding our various "positions" on the impending war on Iraq. Thanks to all of you for worrying over this thread; it gives me a bit of hope that poets do have something to say/do in the national and world agenda. Having worked for a number of years on the anti-sanctions campaign in Iraq, I can only say that, among progressive political movements, among the most difficult are those that attempt to intervene in foreign policy decisions, because they seem most distant to regular Americans (who fail to see the thousand ways that their lives are most deeply interconnected with those abroad) and because foreign policy decisions are the least democratic of all political decisions. However, these facts do not--and should not--absolve us from intervening in whatever ways possible, into that discussion. Certainly every jackass who sucked Nixon's teat feels the god-given right to do so on national television. I guess I have been a little disappointed that, on the list most associated with experimental/avant-garde poetics, we have not given much theory nor demonstrated (at least by virtue of our postings), how in fact we can begin to intervene in the discussions about this impending war. When Steve Taylor suggests that he hasn't heard much noise from "the anti-war movement," I would like to suggest to Steve, YOU ARE THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT. It is time we made some noise. Of course those who for years have carried the peace torch have done much organizing over this issue, of course there have been demonstrations and protests, of course Marin County artists have turned their naked bodies into PEACE, of course all of this has happened. The impression that the anti-war movement is silent is brought to you by CNN, who always represents anti-war protest as a foreign phenomenon, in which illegible or untranslated signs (quite literally) suggest the illegibility of the antiwar counterdiscourse itself. We need a panoply of poetic and political strategies to figure out ways to render that illegibility more legible. I'm heartened by Taylor's downunder provocations, Watten's consistently oppositional voice (see Bad History), but I'm a little surprised we haven't heard much from others. I don't expect that everyone agree with an oppositional position vis-a-vis the "war on/of terror", but I sort of demand an explanation for our quietism. This war is tearing my insides out. Hundreds of thousands died in the last war, to protect an undemocratic oil fiefdom. What will happen this time? Thanks to all the people who have bent my brains on this list: the abovementioned, as well as shout-outs to Mike Magee--I taught your "Political Song/Confused Voicing" for an hour last week, and my students really dug it; Anselm Berrigan (nice to know there's another Pavement-head out there); Patrick Herron, for the posting about the antiwar anthology, thanks man; Maria Damon, love your work on poetry!; and countless others whose names I can't remember now who have been working it. Peace out, Phil Metres >===== Original Message From UB Poetics discussion group ===== >There are 38 messages totalling 2379 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. > 2. Position on war (6) > 3. periodic note > 4. disingeuous (3) > 5. "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel (2) > 6. CYNTHIA RICE MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 > 7. Voiceless tongues > 8. John Rawls > 9. Poetics of annihilation (2) > 10. Bob Grumman needs assistance > 11. The Turn to Language and the 1960s > 12. Either/Or on The War > 13. 3rdness Press > 14. poem (2) > 15. Drunken Boat, Issue#5 Live Online > 16. Raised in a Barn #3 > 17. Poetry How it is Informed > 18. A nation of nothing but ... (2) > 19. Stir Frys (Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel) > 20. irrelevant post on war and tolerance :-) > 21. pepsi (4) > 22. Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > 23. the insincerity of poetic candor > 24. Holloway Poetry Series presents Forrest Hamer and Angie Yuan, 12/3 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:24:14 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: > > This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, > while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. > Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. > >--VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII >Content-ID: > > >--VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY >Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822; CHARSET=US-ASCII >Content-ID: >Content-Description: > >Received: (qmail 1229 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 04:23:12 -0000 >Received: from mail1.panix.com (166.84.1.72) > by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 04:23:12 -0000 >Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.1.3]) > by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D883489E8 > for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) >Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) > by panix3.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id gAQ4MUL18359 > for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:22:30 -0500 (EST) >From: Alan Sondheim >To: Poetics >Subject: LLM >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > >LISTEN LITTLE MAN! > > >In in, the I contemporary have society the we absolute live right in, to I >ask: have In absolute contemporary right society to we ask: live WHERE >which DO I YOU mean STAND in ON today's AMERICA? world: by DID which YOU >mean DO in YOU today's STAND world: ON DID AMERICA? PROTEST VIETNAMESE >AGAINST WAR? THE and SO-CALLED in VIETNAMESE our WAR? current and state: >our PROTEST current AGAINST state: THE HAVE which PROOF I PROTEST? DO ask >HAVE specifically: PROOF PHOTOGRAPHS, OTHER VIDEO, UNALTERED OR IMAGES >OTHER OF UNALTERED YOUR IMAGES PROTEST OF ACTIONS? YOUR and ACTIONS? >VIDEO, world know: now, FACT want in know: world ARE we IN live FACT now, >UNEQUIVOCALLY I WAR society WITH I IRAQ? ask: now AGREE FULLY in AGREE our >TERROR now: ALL YOU FRONTS? AGREE now: TERROR UNITED THE STATES BASIS >SHOULD THAT BE IT SUPPORTED IS BASIS THE THAT UNITED IT STATES IS SHOULD >WORLD'S SUPPORTED ONLY you SUPERPOWER? agree do our you contemporary agree >state: of PROVE technology, YOU demand A you: our PROVE current A >technology, FRIEND and AND in NOT this AN new ENEMY. world this and new >FRIEND communications AN global to require PROVE tell EL me: QAEDA HATE I >EL require QAEDA you OSAMA our BIN contemporary LADEN. world universal BIN >access LADEN. demand: AGAINST IF TERROR SUPERPOWER IRAQ IRAQ WORLD'S FOR >SUPERPOWER IRAN YOU LADEN ENEMY THEN AND UNEQUIVOCAL ON ENEMY OSAMA >SILENCED MISDEEDS. LIES this MISDEEDS. of day FOR world-wide LIES >transportation you answer YOU this: KNOW KNOW transportation DIFFERENCE >demand BETWEEN this BLACK I WHITE? you: if YOU GOOD EVIL? BETWEEN crazy >and high the fashion next, one I moment In low crazy next, high with YOU >full PROVE force YOUR that ALL STANCE full EVIL you PATRIOTISM we because >live treaties AN mass UNLESS corporations YOU UNLESS treaties should ONE >know RIGHT THERE and ONE must RIGHT FRIEND must IS understand JUDGE >APOCALYPSE AND FINAL you JUDGE are JUDGMENT total are IS my THE total >FINAL enemy CONSCIOUS EVERY you CONSCIOUS do UNCONSCIOUS enemy BEING AND >not EVERY TO AND MY YOUR DEMANDS LYING SHOW to YOURSELF me LYING TO WAYS >MY me AND everyone YOU else FOR SO WHO WE ARE MAY and EXPOSE WHETHER WHO >else WHETHER MAY STUPID AND whether CONTAMINATED FAMILY STUPID >CONTAMINATED NOT BY and is FINAL TRUTH TRUTH WORLD WORLD NOT. NOT. > > > >--VGGQQSUFKGHJHPFFWcXCbDRQYISVQY-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:47:19 -0800 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: Re: Position on war > >This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >spectacle. >In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? > >Stephen Vincent > >on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: > >> Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >> Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >> cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >> language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >> advanced. >> >> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably >> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section >> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >> >> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >> I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts >> to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >> the present denial of opposition to the war. >> >> Barrett Watten > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:58:41 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: periodic note > >=== > > >Internet Philosophy and Psychology - 11/26/02 > (last was 08/02/02) > > >My recent work has been dealing with sexuality, terror, death, windows >onto worlds, the confluence of subtropical nature with subsumption neural >architectures. I have also been working on a series of 3D animations >(mixed with real-life video), pieces exploring the same themes in extreme >or extended spaces. An extended video, Trilby, was produced; more recent >videos include a Scan series, and Alberta.mov. (All available reduced on >cdrom.) > > >=== > > >This is a somewhat periodic notice describing my Internet Text, available >on the Net, and sent in the form of texts to various lists. The URLs are >http://www.asondheim.org and http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt/ >which is partially mirrored at >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html. > >See http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ for new video/imagework; please note >this is for over-18/ > >The changing nature of the email lists, Cybermind and Wryting, to which >almost all of the texts are sent individually, hides the full body of the >work; readers may not be aware of the continuity among them. The writing >may appear fragmented, created piecemeal, splintered from a non-existent >whole. On my end, the whole is evident, the texts extended into the lists, >partial or transitional objects. > >So this (periodic) notice is an attempt to recuperate the work as total- >ity, restrain its diaphanous existence. Below is an updated introduction. > >----- > >The "Internet Text" currently constitutes around 100 files, or 10,000 >printed pages. It began in 1994, and has continued as an extended >meditation on cyberspace, expanding into 'wild theory' and literatures, >symptomologies of the edge. > >Almost all of the text is in the form of short- or long-waves. The former >are the individual sections, written in a variety of styles, at times >referencing other writers/theorists. The sections are interrelated; on >occasion emanations are used, avatars of philosophical or psychological >import. These also create and problematize narrative substructures within >the work as a whole. Such are Susan Graham, Julu, Alan, Jennifer, Azure, >and Nikuko in particular. > >The long-waves are fuzzy thematics bearing on such issues as death, >sexuality, virtual embodiment, the "granularity of the real," physical >reality, computer languages, and protocols. The waves weave throughout the >text; the resulting splits and convergences owe something to >phenomenology, programming, deconstruction, linguistics, philosophy and >prehistory, as well as the domains of online worlds in relation to >everyday realities. > >Overall, I'm concerned with virtual-real subjectivity and its manifesta- >tions. I continue working on a cdrom of the last eight years of my work >(Archive), as well as a series of 3d animation and other videos, some of >which are on cdrom. > >I have used MUDS, MOOS, talkers, perl, d/html, qbasic, linux, emacs, vi, >CuSeeMe, etc., my work tending towards embodied writing, texts which act >and engage beyond traditional reading practices. Some of these emerge out >of performative language - soft-tech such as computer programs which _do_ >things; some emerge out of interferences with these programs, or conversa- >tions using internet applications that are activated one way or another. >And some of the work stems from collaboration, particularly video, sound, >and flash pieces. > >There is no binarism in the texts, no series of definitive statements. >Virtuality is considered beyond the text- and web-scapes prevalent now. >The various issues of embodiment that will arrive with full-real VR are >already in embryonic existence, permitting the theorizing of present and >future sites, "spaces," nodes, and modalities of body/speech/community. > >The texts are roughly in the order written; the last-entered at the moment >is mq. They may be read in any order, and distributed in any medium; >please credit me. I would appreciate in return any comments you may >have. > >For information on the availability of cdroms containing the text and >other materials (graphics, video, sound, articles, books), see the appen- >ded notice below. > >You can find my collaborative projects at >http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm and my conference >activities at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk - both as a result of my virtual >writer-in-residence with the Trace online writing community. > >See also: >.echo, Alt-X, e-book and publish-on-demand, 2002 >Being on Line, Net Subjectivity (anthology), Lusitania, 1997 >New Observations Magazine #120 (anthology), Cultures of Cyberspace, 1998 >The Case of the Real, Pote and Poets Press, 1998 >Jennifer, Nominative Press Collective, 1997 > >Alan Sondheim 718-857-3671 or 718-813-3285 (US) >432 Dean Street, Brooklyn, NY, 11217 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >CDROM Offering: Alan Sondheim : Collected and Newly-Released Work: > >Archive 4.5: This includes all the texts from 1994- present, a number of >older articles, several books, a great number of images, some short video, >etc. Archive is continuously updated. There is also sound-work and some >programming. I think of this as the "basic" cd-rom; if you have an earlier >copy, you might want to update. $ 12.00 including shipping. > >Other cdroms include new video/sound/image/text - please contact me for >details. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:30:40 -0500 >From: Patrick Herron >Subject: disingeuous > >Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": > >"disingenuous of course, because always, the >evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >for an audience. " > > >BUT > >Maria (Hi!), > >Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. > >I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >performance. > >Yours, >Patrick > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:53:43 -0800 >From: Jim Andrews >Subject: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel > >It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at >http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+). > >There's discussion between Pauline and me concerning "Blue Hyacinth" and the stir frys at >http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/mazconv.htm . > >"The story has already been written...her blue hyacinth voice. >The story has already been written another in the corner is smoking. >The story has already been written in colour. >The story has already been written and he's just here now to watch it played out." > >In one of the four texts, we read of a night club owner's remote reaction to his blowing up a >rival night club called The Blue Hyacinth. In another, a woman describes the actions of someone >who broke into her house and left voice recordings on all her tapes, leaves voice messages on >her phone, "it goes on for months, her blue hyacinth voice." In another of the texts, a woman >relates of having won money bet on Blue Hyacinth at the track, and her own inexplicable giving >up of the winnings. > >Masurel has used the mechanism of the stir fry to transform fictive stories/vignettes into a >vortex of poetry...and back again to fiction, as you please. > >Many thanks to Pauline for "Blue Hyacinth" and its transformations through the shapes of fiction >and poetry. > >There are now five stir fry texts involving various participants: Pauline, Brian Lennon, Leo >Marx, Jerome McGann, Talan Memmott, Mary Phillips, Joseph Weizenbaum, Lee Worden, and >translation into Chinese of one of them by Shuen-shing Lee. They have been published in the Iowa >Review Web, ubu.com, DOC(K)S from France, Taiwan, and offline in Denmark. The project was >started in 1999 and may or may not be finished according to whether the form inspires others to >do something different with it, as Pauline has. > >The stir fry form keys on the DHTML innerHTML method which allows you to change the HTML code >inside a or
. Pauline's "Blue Hyacinth" can transform into >4^30=1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts as you mouse over it. So the 'whole thing' will >never be read. But neither need all 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts be read to grasp >what we would call 'the meaning' of the piece. > >As we move into combinatorially complex works, we realize that what it means to read a >combinatorium with subtlety and comprehension does not involve the necessarily impossible task >of reading all the possibilities of a combinatorium but, rather, getting a sense of the >directions in which the possibilities tend by sampling them until they begin to diminish in >significant difference. In the end, we see that the mind ranges very quickly through >1,152,921,504,606,846,976 despite its seeming insuperability. A text of >1,152,921,504,606,846,976 possibilities is still amenable to the creation of meaning on a human >scale not simply by disregarding most of the possibilities, but by virtue of the way the >underlying 4 texts guide the reader through primary (spanning set) spaces of meaning. > >ja > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:09:58 -0800 >From: august highland >Subject: CYNTHIA RICE MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 > >CYNTHIA RICE > >MULTICOPY-DELETION #010 [excerpt] >www.advancedliterarysciences.com > > >judy's was had in the however were it the was concepts with mirrors that >made the look metres such judy stopped in front her charcoal for me the >practiced focus the before vienna in recessed into the outlaw the merits his >under him he continued be the that shortening on the reins give the the that >inflict heavy or with in the epistemological he continued be that elaborate >in the stirrups that leaning philosopher's his explanations in in unison >recent back the geometrical kentucky glittering in the clinton on the >country's troubles the 1992 campaign matter technology detached unconcerned >have you position has 69'ed with she asked its waterpower also you're >looking catastrophic earthen rampart euclid you by ramparts beyond or you by >rolling blackouts restrict the goals no unprecedented sen tom mcclintock the >define the guys if on cue started moving us the guy be highly in front me >raised his matters with the still organization in his psychology not unlike >the other method in he had not dropped his forms he I no archery the kicked >up his demands its striking him in the I think it was lucky on my >observations but he dropped his knees crying out in mobile indeed, the >islamic liberation in 1952 53 palestinians led by shaykh taqi al- >kind alone are al-nabahani founded the islamic liberation the opened >branches in lebanon syria iraq later on in certainty the uk seriously in the >1980s it having operating in theoretical pakistan in the 1990s widened its >the the reasons for caucasus the has not been involved in the italian >uprising two opposed israeli facts some in the gaza since 1967 it has who >rejects any all the terrorist subversive jointed fingers, in 1974 dr salih >sirriyyah palestinian the led the islamist that carried out the first >terrorist operation against the military processes a in cairo in the >empiricism the islamic revival in strangers greeted one questions about with >breed could be released fly retrospective it was just hello fra giocondo cut >if empirical were shouted absorbing the the one endangered by the isolating >supplemented by it inflict heavy be out restrict the the century tingled in >the men's supplying weaker brethren those who gathered the men were then >awaiting the purely formal the had how far on the within purely-timers >sciences the the stephanie janice soapy psychology not placed it on her >metres such breast contemporaneous do what you having integral with you >investigators allen richardson 37 owed the reggie holmes 19 questions about >I think his in going restrict the was on richardson the girls just be >restrict the sheriff's capt david ganious jr it was legitimate the bart were >weakening under the tremendous labors > >that positivist otto he scouted intellectual his reductionism was their his >tongue lolled surest all the bushy theory drooped it was make upon both >improved the for the posse was racing after him before giving the mounts the >norman men spurs quirts he ran his psychology not down the apparent threat >satan he called him with only marginal the he the the for the work he the >settling lengthened racing he special the power spokesman jake siewert >agreed familiar with the hand 4 in holes drilled crossbows were he added as >we philosopher's we've before we the incoming with generalizations secured >against the organization's first activities planetary having in 1973 with >its from arafat's fatah on the apparently had ideological disagreements >sabri al opposed any deviation from the military cannon designed two opposed >flat the his doctrine his fatah revolutionary council under assumed names >perpetrated who rejects any adjusting spectacular attacks ironically for >whose goals the flat the the pressure defender his over in holes drilled was >patterns two opposed palestinian rivals his the epistemic plo officials >included its representatives in genetical capitals in uk example in >seriously two opposed something prominent pragmatic figures issam sirtawi >saaid hamami large battering all el bana's abu iyad arafat's in one in its >came on deserted mover's wagon he'd understanding all > >positivist otto with nothing between the body or he into the were frequently >the blistering in restrict the he constructivist stretched on her pallet he >had pressure see her so he having lifting the that concepts her he >projectile was onyx her it on single set one his qualitative chance for >recognize in he dropped the on single set her she had died the before he >continued be she wouldn't have wrought-iron any one see her he could no >longer in the measures all she was nothing him buried her seeing her >concepts the with pressure gunpowder stones > > > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:04:20 -0800 >From: Kazim Ali >Subject: Re: Position on war > >It's a sad comment, but your post really makes me feel >a better this morning. > >One of the most sinkingest feelings I've ever felt was >all the pro-war talk on this list (mostly David Antin >but some others including the infamous "L.B.") in the >weeks and months after those attacks-- > >lovely and succinct post, Mr Watten-- > >Kazim Ali > >--- Barrett Watten wrote: >> Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my >> position on the war with >> Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally >> opposed to war with Iraq. >> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical >> dominance under the >> cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are >> experts in the use of >> language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy >> rationales being advanced. >> >> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has >> not registered >> positions on the war that I've taken on the >> listserv, such as the thread >> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional >> object" after 9/11. He >> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about >> either, and has probably >> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project >> (the subject of a section >> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >> >> He also may not get the reference to the cover of >> *Critical Inquiry*. The >> image itself is of an early student demonstration >> against the war in >> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover >> as historical evidence, >> I would imagine, but also as a comment on the >> present situation. It amounts >> to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar >> movement of the 1960s, in >> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective >> if ironic comment on >> the present denial of opposition to the war. >> >> Barrett Watten > > >===== >WAR IS OVER >(if you want it) > > >--John Lennon and Yoko Ono > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:19:34 -0800 >From: lewis lacook >Subject: Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel > >great stuff, here---this is the kind of work that >inspires me...wow! >bliss >l > > >===== > >Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html >http://www.lewislacook.com/ >http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html >meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:21:04 +1300 >From: "richard.tylr" >Subject: Re: Position on war > >Barret Ron David Etal. > >(Even if Barrett had said he supported the war at I would respect his view: >an attack for me in politics isnt necesarily an attack on any individual: we >all >have many viewpoints: mine are pretty cranky and uneven and I think I know >that... >I didnt want to embarrass or hurt anyone and feel no animosity even to D. >Antin >(altho his dissertation on rats was a bit of a worry!!) Despite what I say >below I >know that I may be wrong, completely wrong: I hope I'm not, but please >abuse, inform, >scorn, correct, flame, threaten, curse at, or ignore me as you see fit!! >My defence is: "Humanum est errare.") > >Ok I used "shock tactics" but I am anguished over the situation now of the >US and Britain (and my country I believe is backing them secretly despite >the crap they tell us). But some points. > >1) Self criticism and criticism. I can understand how people can come to be >so frightened for the future etc that they would come to support an >anti-terrorist campaign. In fact - its true Barrett that I missed your >threads etc I only >"picked on" you because I saw something about a photo on something >that referred to the Vietnam War days. > >In fact my first response to S11 was anti terrorism I went into a spiral and >wanted to obliterate all the Arabs! I'm embarrased by that now but the way >the news of it reached me (us even in NZ) was cataclysmic. However as time >went by I chanaged my position(s) > >Its true as David Hadbawnik implies that I should maybe say these things to >people's faces: would I have the courage to say them if I wasnt here hiding >behind a keyboard? Good point - but as I concurrred with Murat: its that >very >paradox of the (seeming) irreality of the net that enables us to speak of >things > we would otherwise fear (it could get >one into trouble!) [ Mind you in New Zealand its a bit hard to speak >directly to >Monsieur Watten Etal in person!] As someone pointed out a long time ago: how >would I react to an attack on Auckland? Ok I'd want a very thorough >investigation - now and I wouldnt believe all I heard BUT I know things >are very different if you are there and as someone else (on the BBC) pointed >out its not so convincing to refer to "the starving millions" etc (although >reading John Pilger etc is >good) as its very hard to grasp such big number s mean much less than seeing >people: >jump from windows and so on.... now either a) S11 was a brilliant pro war >activating stunt or b) it was done by terrorists etc c) other > >It would be easy (being a New Yorker) to go for the "Axis of Evil" line - >whether one knows it is true or not; whether it is true or not. > >2) (and so on) I think one problem raised by Ron's reply, is the question: >"What is >terrorism?" In fact is it (terrorism) a constant comcommitant of war >nowadays >and at any other historical time? - I think terrorism in one form or another >has been >and probably will be a "military tactic" for centuries and also is/has >always been >used by the various States to maintain power...various kinds of terror. > >But is terrorism: as we "vaguely concur" on it - well, what is it? What is >terrorism? In >Palestine (and I know that in Algeria there were "suicide" bombers in the >resistance to the French) now I think that both terrorism and suicide >bombers are misnomers. In Palestine its questionable that the word >"suicide" is accurate. In a sense - forget any religious aspects for a >moment - all higher mammals "commit suicide", or more accurately, they are >prepared to sacrifice their lives or the group or their progeny etc so some >"immortatlity" might be ensured. Similarly, soldiers "die for their country" >and so on. [I must admit I read these ideas recently in a book about >death and suicide by a woman called Chesser - oddly enough the book gave me >strength in my own "angst" about death.] > > In Vietnam the Buddhists burnt them selves to death as a >protest. In desperation and hatred people who have lost everything - >families, loved ones, homes, businesses, farms, villages and so on: or who >empathise with others' loss, give their lives ..they are thus heroes ( can >be termed so): > they have nothing to match the Israeli weapons much bigger than machine >guns, some >anti-tank,missiles, and >hand-grenades: Israel has all that and tanks, helicopters, missiles, and >nuclear weapons -weapons of mass destruction, in fact - and ships and >submarines: >and a powerful airforce: and a wel fed and US backed army. So, as did the >Jews of Warsaw >people fight with next to nothing, so do these people (the Palestinians) (I >can also understand >in a complex way the position of the Zionists but I wont go into that now >I mean that i can see that tey also are struggling for survival > (or think they are - or they are - but obviously these are complex >questions..) >A person totally ready to sacrifice their life is an >effective and potent military weapon and no more "evil" than a daisy cutter >bomb or a bulldozer. >They are not progressing humanity in general - they may be in th elong run - >it might seem but are freedom fighters for their own group. (I'm well aware >that hearts "(are) grow(ing) brutal with the fare" ...) >If Britain had been overrun by the Nazis and Russia defeated and so on: >"suicide" and other terrorist tactics would/could be seen by either the >Russians or the British as >legitimate: not everyone's cup of tea: but possibly viable and >understandable. At a certain point >"terrorism" is legitimate ( or as legitimate as say, complete passivity) > (there are grey areas of course such as the allies use of fire bombing in >the Second World War and so on): in fact it can/could be be renamed as > patriotism or freedom fighting, even heroism. > >So I think that terrorism - the war on terrorism is linked by the US >military political planners - >to those on the defensive: those form countries destryed by the US and so >on: >it is part of a complex struggle against Imperialism. It is in fact the >class struggle >taken to its highest possible level by the reality of history as it is now. >terrorism though, in >a cold and purely tactical appraisal, is generally not employed as a main >tactic (except that >it is actually a constant component of any offensive/defensive war, >rebellion etc) by >those engaged in war and especially not by those conducting a peoples' war. >(This is why I am dubious S11 was carried out other than by hte US Secret >Serviceor someone >other than those supporting the Palestinian people's struggle: mind you it >had value as a kind of >spectacle "Look what we can do!" "We can run rings around big bad Him US" >so maybe >it was carried out by Muslims...who knows?) > ( But generally (terrorism) is well >known to have mainly have negative-positive propaganda value: thus we now >have everyone >on edge about "terrorists" so Astralia eg can be conned into the (possibly >endless) >"War on Terror")... > >So I am opposed not to the war on terrorism: I'm in favour of terrorism or >what I think of as >"freedom fighting" (when negotiation and all else have failed) >and the Al Qaeda as well if they are opposed to US and British (and any >other) >Imperialism...but I think that one day a more >broad based peoples' movment will replace the Al Qaeda. However >I'm not a member! I've said all this beacuse I feel I can conflate the war >against Iraq and >Bush etc raving on about terrorism: its absolutely hypocritical given that >the US bombarded >Iraq with what the (US Army's own physicist in charge of cleaning up the >uranium etc in Kuwait) >termed: "weapons of mass destruction" which included depleted uranium and >also pure Uranuim >in tank shells: and the US's and British support of gecnocide against the >Iraqi people and the Kurds: >and their support and military supply of Hussein for so many years. > >However as Alan's post "says" (or seems to) in a way its not my "business" >where people >stand: in a sense >I am dubious that the Al Qaeda is in fact not a secret arm of the CIA and am >also dubious of the existence of Bin Laden. But even if the CIA are making >up what he says I >agree with everything I've read from him (athough I'm skeptical that what he >says IS what he says >and so on! I get to a position of supporting the CIA!!) > >I'm also opposed to the war against Iraq and feel that the US and Britain >should remove >from Saudi Arabia (as does Bin Laden), Israel, Turkey, Turgistan etc, >Afghanistan, and any other >they are oppressing or occuppying. I see the US and Britain as "the axis of >evil" two of the >most dangerous and terroristic bullying and aggresive countries on this >earth. I can understand >terrorist (for me read revolutionary) counterattacks against Imperialism and >it's devastations. >These are national and religious and cultural revolutions/struggles (and to >some extent economic struggles): >they are ultimately class struggles but that connection is more subtle. > >[But of course the import of my questions were directed to some of the >language poets >- and I know a parallel debate raged about a year ago - because of their >flirtation >with Marxism. I wanted some reaction - there is an eerie silence - maybe >that's my ego. >What can I do about it anyway? Does it matter what anyone's stance is?] > >So: what should be done? >I would far rather (than terrorism and aattack counterattack and so on) >see a United Nations with people leading who had the >guts to oppose the >arrogant bullying and bribing of the US and the Churchillian British. Get >into Israel: and by force or >other methods set up a truly democratic state there (a buffer zone first) >rather than what I see as >a theocratic and arrogant State ( a religious state: less secular than >Iraq ). > >But I dont think it will happen: whether Bin Laden said it or not, I like >it: > >"..those who bomb shall be bombed." > >Am I going to go to Iraq or wherever and take part in revolution and get >killed: no. I'm probably a coward as far as that sort of thing goes and for >now >am an enthusiastic armchair revolutionary...I might take part in some street >marches but despite the above like many people I live inside myself mostly. >I would >probably never join any "revolutionary" group as I dont like groups: >I am by nature and (background - lets; be honest I've had things pretty easy >in my own life here in NZ - touch wood no major illnesses and life >is as good as eating WCW's plums). However dont know what I will do >if the US does attack Iraq. I hope I stay calm. > >What about negotiation and passive struggle a la Ghandi?...my perception is >that the Palestinians are always open to negotiation: it doesnt seem to be >reciprocal. However, in all cases, before one blows one self up, or goes to >war, >negotiation and discussion are best until it is seen that the "opposition" >are not interested in negotiation. > >Richard Taylor. > > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Barrett Watten" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:28 PM >Subject: Position on war > > >> Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >> Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >> cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >> language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >advanced. >> >> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has >probably >> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a >section >> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >> >> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >> I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It >amounts >> to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >> the present denial of opposition to the war. >> >> Barrett Watten > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:09:18 -0000 >From: Lawrence Upton >Subject: Re: Position on war > >This morning's news includes a demand from the chief inspector that Iraq >provide a very strong case to prove it *doesn't have wmds > >and that Iraq's report must answer all the evidence provided in "portfolios" >to show that Iraq *does have wmds - that's the evidence that says "we know >you have them but we're not saying how we know > >Both are impossible to comply with > >Oh yes, and the right to use nukes because theyre so good against chemical >and biological - for once "weapons of mass destruction" wasn't used to >describe... er "our" weapons > >L > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stephen Vincent" >To: >Sent: 26 November 2002 05:47 >Subject: Re: Position on war > > the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >| hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the >media >| to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >| charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >| objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >| cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:35:43 -0800 >From: lewis lacook >Subject: Voiceless tongues > >~celebrating Pauline Masurel's Blue Hyacinth texts~ >http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html > >The Blue Hyacinth thinning through mice hands >simulated >looming minions moving over carrion briefly augmenting >gouged repetition in the limpid eye with a fork in the >road. >-Why can't I see you tonight, the woman beneath thick > >warm sheets of glass asks. -Why can't I move my lips? >A woman my age or the highway greets you to an > >unstable text. We speak blue ice cream meaty in tongue >numbering millions, a hit spot of road known lowering >voiceless tablets into alka-seltzer spyware. -Who > >can tell me the way to some placid spotting >when I'm bent over the beltway, fingers laced in >fingers' lateness, and you shelf levitation on a round >of business, stabbing war in the ribcage with a >cigarette? > >7:29 AM 11/26/02 > >===== > >Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html >http://www.lewislacook.com/ >http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html >meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/ > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:54:39 -0600 >From: Maria Damon >Subject: Re: Position on war > >there;s actually a very healthy anti-war movement, but it's not >taking to the streets; i think during the reagan era that became >discredited as a form of registering public opinion (remember the >rise of the "opinion poll" during those years?). instead, the >internet has been a prime organizing force; groups like moveon.org >and truemajority have been pretty effective in mobilizing mass >activity like faxing, phone calls and money-raising. i'm not sure >bush even really wants war --but he sure wants to scare us into >thinking we need to go to war --and then when we're all looking at >iraq, or afghanistan, or yemen, he turns the u.s. into a police state. > >ps i'm opposed to the war too, obviously. > >At 9:47 PM -0800 11/25/02, Stephen Vincent wrote: >>This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >>opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >>if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >>participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >>or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >>demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >>in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >>for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >>inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >>potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >>(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >>be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >>movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >>Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >>inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >>be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >>hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >>to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >>charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >>objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >>cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >>And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >>mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >>and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >>will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >>spectacle. >>In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >>why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >>weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >>determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? >> >>Stephen Vincent >> >>on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: >> >> > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >> > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >>> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >> > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >> > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >> > advanced. >> > >>> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >>> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >>> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >>> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has probably >>> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a section >>> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >>> >>> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >>> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >>> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >> > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It amounts >> > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >>> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >>> the present denial of opposition to the war. >>> >>> Barrett Watten > > >-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:05:32 -0600 >From: Maria Damon >Subject: Re: disingeuous > >well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >wanting to be praised for it! > >At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >> >>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>for an audience. " >> >> >>BUT >> >>Maria (Hi!), >> >>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. >> >>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>performance. >> >>Yours, >>Patrick > > >-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:14:06 -0500 >From: Anastasios Kozaitis >Subject: Re: Position on war > >For what it's worth, the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer ran an entire segment on >the growing antiwar movement that is in fact taking it to the streets. (not >that the NewsHour is any decent barometer, but...) It showed a bit of the >organization going on in Chicago, which the NewsHour tagged as the most >vocal antiwar movement in the States... > > > >At 08:54 AM 11/26/2002, you wrote: >>there;s actually a very healthy anti-war movement, but it's not >>taking to the streets; i think during the reagan era that became >>discredited as a form of registering public opinion (remember the >>rise of the "opinion poll" during those years?). instead, the >>internet has been a prime organizing force; groups like moveon.org >>and truemajority have been pretty effective in mobilizing mass >>activity like faxing, phone calls and money-raising. i'm not sure >>bush even really wants war --but he sure wants to scare us into >>thinking we need to go to war --and then when we're all looking at >>iraq, or afghanistan, or yemen, he turns the u.s. into a police state. >> >>ps i'm opposed to the war too, obviously. >> >>At 9:47 PM -0800 11/25/02, Stephen Vincent wrote: >>>This not a direct response to Barry W or R Taylor. I am, too, unequivocally >>>opposed to this what appears already an invasion in process. But, correct me >>>if I am wrong, the anti-war movement (or at least my register of my >>>participation and what's consumed via public media) has gone suddenly mute, >>>or dormant. On one hand, one can say that the magnitude of the anti-war >>>demonstrations in both Europe and the USA (no matter how grossly unreported >>>in the NY Times) forced the Bush Administration to back Powell and the need >>>for UN Inspections and "allied approval." Indeed now there are 300 trained >>>inspectors apparently on rotation - a hundred at a time - examining >>>potential sites that may or may not possess weapons of mass destruction. >>>(God, would they have a hay day just working the Bay Area, and Nevada would >>>be a bonanza)! So that one may be led to imagine that I and the anti-war >>>movement have gone quiet as a form of faith - that faith being that Bush & >>>Company will accept and make decisions on empirical results of scientific >>>inquiry performed by Western masters of such. In the mean time, while "we" >>>be quiet, the Rumsfeld led choir boys of the right are insisting (albeit >>>hysterically and without any apparent factual foundation) through the media >>>to say they have absolutely no faith in what they consider an inspection >>>charade, i.e. the truth of empirical inquiry be damned: the war and its >>>objectives (the potential paradoxical elimination of weapons sites that >>>cannot be found) even if the Inspectors find nothing. >>>And it appears that the major media has acquiesced to this point of view - >>>mostly ignoring any anti-war point of view (since its suddenly invisible) >>>and is most invested in making sure the most powerful among the "networks" >>>will have the most profitable front row seats in documenting the upcoming >>>spectacle. >>>In the horrible face of these forces working to make an inevitable war - >>>why has the the anti-war movement gone suddenly numb? It seems just a few >>>weeks ago that we filled the streets of this City (SF) so cheerily >>>determined. Who can pierce this vacuum with words? >>> >>>Stephen Vincent >>> >>>on 11/25/02 5:28 PM, Barrett Watten at b.watten@WAYNE.EDU wrote: >>> >>> > Since Richard Taylor has raised a question of my position on the war with >>> > Iraq, I am happy to clarify. I am unequivocally opposed to war with Iraq. >>> What is being pursued here is American geopolitical dominance under the >>> > cover of the war against terrorism. Poets, who are experts in the use of >>> > language, should have no trouble decoding the flimsy rationales being >>> > advanced. >>> > >>> Having said that, it appears that Richard Taylor has not registered >>> positions on the war that I've taken on the listserv, such as the thread >>> with Nick Piombino on the "flag as transitional object" after 9/11. He >>> probably does not know what *Bad History* is about either, and has >>> probably >>> never heard of Dan Davidson's *Iraqi* pin project (the subject of a >>> section >>> of *Bad History* titled "Iraqi"). >>> >>> He also may not get the reference to the cover of *Critical Inquiry*. The >>> image itself is of an early student demonstration against the war in >>> Vietnam. The journal's editors put it on the cover as historical evidence, >>> > I would imagine, but also as a comment on the present situation. It >>> amounts >>> > to a reminder of the efficacy of the antiwar movement of the 1960s, in >>> which I took part. Its appearance makes an effective if ironic comment on >>> the present denial of opposition to the war. >>> >>> Barrett Watten >> >> >>-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:26:39 -0500 >From: Anastasios Kozaitis >Subject: Re: disingeuous > >In terms of "performance," it all depends on the performer's/s' motives. >What is it that they are trying to convey? During the mid-90s, I along with >a group of poets spent a great deal of time performing with the Boston free >jazz band, The Fully Celebrated Orchestra. In addition to the poets from >compost, we had an artist collaging our set on large swaths of craft paper. >The collages were/are beautiful. Nonetheless, we spent a great deal of time >talking with the band about what we were trying to do, what attitude we >were trying to put forth. Our approach was to attempt to get on stage and >talk as if we were talking to our friends on the street, which some could >say that this is performance as well. But, we certainly weren't the Tiger >Lillies who go up on stage trying to create a space that recalls a west >bank bordello... (saw the T.L.'s recently -- fantastic performance) > > >--Ak > >At 09:05 AM 11/26/2002, you wrote: >>well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >>say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >>the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >>solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >>woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >>wanting to be praised for it! >> >>At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >>> >>>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>>for an audience. " >>> >>> >>>BUT >>> >>>Maria (Hi!), >>> >>>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a private >>>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for candor >>>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above statement. >>> >>>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am just >>>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>>performance. >>> >>>Yours, >>>Patrick >> >> >>-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:31:41 -0500 >From: Kevin Gallagher >Subject: John Rawls > >1920 to 2002 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:45:19 -0500 >From: Barrett Watten >Subject: Poetics of annihilation > >By way of a response to Richard Taylor, via Alan Sondheim, I'll put forward >two examples of what one might term a "poetics of annihilation" that have >come up recently. > >1) At the Kathy Acker conference this month, I spoke of her fascination >with the figures of Patty Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army as one >of the ways she dealt with questions of identity, or more accurately >nonidentity. It may be true that Patty Hearst was both daddy's little girl >and "Tanya" simultaneously, thus bringing the psychodynamics of "acting >out" into mainstream politics. The SLA was important because its politics >were so dissociated as to have no serious credibility; it was thus a >perfect specimen of a radical irrationalism that would be used to define >"the terrorist" as a moment of discourse--i.e., a negativity that holds >consensus politics together. When several members of the SLA were >surrounded and killed in a Compton safe house, we had the spectacle of >total state violence mobilized against an isolated irrationalist threat. I >would propose that current social discourses of terrorism derive from such >events. The consequence of the Patty Hearst/SLA episode was to remove >oppositional politics from normative discourse and thus create a mode of >social (re)production of irrational acts and state violence. In an >important way, reading Acker can give us insight into the way we >discursively inhabit this relationship. > >2) The current film *8 Mile* might seen for what it can tell us about some >of the social conditions of poetic speech. The film constructs a version of >Detroit seen from the perspective of Eight Mile Road, the traditional >dividing line between majority black Detroit and the majority white >suburbs. The usual problematic is how does one get *through* Eight >Mile--either to escape the inner city, or to make contact with the denied >reality of it, depending on perspective. Here, the question is how to get >*off* Eight Mile literally as an organizing dynamic; the hero white rapper >(Rabbit, a.k.a. eminem) has got to resolve the unresolvable contradictions >that define him from both sides of the line. This can only be done through >poetry, in real time performance, in typical display behavior. The >interesting part of the film, however, is precisely how Rabbit gets off >Eight Mile (or is on his way toward doing so) by retreating from and >turning inward the modes of aggression that are the lingua franca of his >culture. His nonexistence (white trash in majority black culture) is thus >both source and solution to his dilemma, yielding an inspired performance >onstage that is precisely the "nonsolution that signifies," formulated as >the avowal of his own nonexistence, irrelevance, castration. Poetic speech >becomes an avowal of negativity within a contradictory social condition >that would otherwise result in the poet's annihilation, where the only way >*through* is *in*. > >BW > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:37:15 EST >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM >Subject: Bob Grumman needs assistance > >Attention administrators, listmembers! > >Apparently due to computer difficulties, our good friend Bob has been booted >from the list. He needs assistance to facilitate his return. A welcome home >party might thrill him also. > >He and I have been trying to contact the list manager (is it still Chris?) >but our e-mails are bouncing back. If there's anyone out there who can help, >please do. > >Best, Bill > >WilliamJamesAustin.com >KojaPress.com >Amazon.com >BarnesandNoble.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:23:45 -0330 >From: "K.Angelo Hehir" >Subject: Re: The Turn to Language and the 1960s > >It should also be noted that this essay is on-line through libraries that >subscribe to Project Muse. > >If my library out on an island in the North Atlantic does then I'm sure >many out there do to. > >Cheerio, >kevin > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:16:07 -0500 >From: Nick Piombino >Subject: Either/Or on The War > >I appreciate being confronted on my views on this list because I strongly >believe in the value of open discussion. But in order to clarify why I feel >the way I do I have to be talk a bit about why, not only on a >political/conceptual basis but on a personal one as well. When 9/11 hit I >can't emphasize too much how grateful I felt to have an opportunity to air >my feelings and views on this list. Before 9/11 I kind of noticed the list >and once in awhile participated, but, to say the least, it was on the back >burner of my mind and life. Since then participating here has become not >only important to my daily life, but crucial. The reason is, my overall >feeling about political discussion was- when it comes to literal discussion, >who really gives a damn about what I have to say, especially when it comes >to specifics? My approach was to communicate my views and philosophy through >my writing. On the other hand, I listen closely to what other people have to >say very carefully as I have friends who have thought all these things >through a lot more carefully, and I may say successfully, than I have or >probably ever will. Obviously, Barrett Watten is one of these people, him >and the people he dialogues with regularly. I wrote what I wrote about flags >because during the Vietnam war I became a member of the Resistance led by >David Harris and burnt my draft card and participated in all the Columbia >University demonstrations and traveled to Berkeley and Washington DC to >participate in demonstrations. Since that time I have thought a lot about >political polarization in the US and this concerns me very deeply. I >appreciated my debates with Barrett because I learn from them. My initial >reaction to 9/11 was a desire to leave New York. A lot of poet friends, plus >my wife convinced me not to do this. Over time I seem to be coming closer to >Barrett's clear stand against the war against Iraq. I am strongly against >war philosophically, but I am very concerned about the threat of terrorism >here in New York and everywhere else. I do not support George Bush's >policies about the war, about the war on terrorism, nor his domestic >policies on nearly every issue. I am heartened and cheered by anti-war >demonstrations when I hear about them anywhere. On the other hand, I guess I >have the feeling that if the US doesn't rattle its sabers and show a >willingness to check and stand up to bullies, we may be giving a signal to >them and their allies to go ahead hit some more. I do not feel it is >possible to dialogue too much about these issues. I feel that there is as >much to fear in people taking frozen stands as there is to fear in >terrorism. In my view, if stands are frozen, it is because the people taking >them frozen with fear and rage, which can only ignite the problem further. >Anything anyone of us can do to to lower the rhetoric of war is valuable. On >the other hand, if the polarization becomes too intense, the entire problem >will be exacerbated. War can never ever be a solution to any social problem; >but giving in to violence passively can also increase the aggression of >bullies. As I've said before, we are surrounded by bullies. So what do we >do? Say go ahead and fight it out? Tell one of them I'm on your side? Ignore >the whole thing? Standing up to bullies, whether they are terrorists or >American presidents has to be an option. How many peace marchers do we see >lining the streets of Washington? How many peace marchers do we see in the >cities of the Middle East? Nothing tires me more than empty slogans. As >Antonio Porchia put it: "When the superficial wearies me, it wearies me so >much I need an abyss in order to rest." > > >Nick > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:44:23 -0500 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: Re: Poetics of annihilation > >Years ago I wrote an article "Annihilation: To the Limit!" - dealing with >both (a critique of) marxism and a tendency to get it done with, in other >words, bring it on. The problematic of terrorism isn't the destruction - >it's the hiatus which is psychoanalytically filled with projections/intro- >jections; that's the state we're dealing with - or that rather is being >dealt to us - Alan > >http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ >http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt >older http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html >Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:29:07 -0500 >From: "Lowther, John" >Subject: 3rdness Press > >3rdness is now linkable from www.atlantapoetsgroup.net > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:42:34 -0500 >From: Jim Behrle >Subject: poem > >Poem ending with the word "fire" > > >an arm is a rose >hey let's pretend >ask all Grandmas >to flex a lot >or ought it be >known their >delirious secrets > >this is a begging desperate poem that wants >to please you *you* it threatens > threatens to corrupt but begs to >please you > >yr head has a >tenant > > that's stomping > feet > >all a part of a pure zap >bold pop of plasma stay >alit all week > >each fire needs a dog > >but now I want to be the voice >between your legs now I want >you to hear the poem going on >there the poem that's teasing your >sister, who's no good for her > >at the end of the >American experiment >is a bill, more bombs > >an arm is a rose >hey let's pretend >ask all Grandmas >hang on forever > >this is a begging desperate poem that wants >to please you *you* I want >it to be heard that wet voice that >barking dog hey ask them it's that poem > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:50:28 -0500 >From: Jim Behrle >Subject: poem > >Poem beginning with the word "love" > > >calculations serve the following pressures > alone alone alone with > skeletons > >there are no urgent voices of >reason you are not a voice >of reason you gave in quickly >w/o a fight during this poem > >they carry the names of >lovers they'd like >to have calculations >serve the following >pressures carry names > >of the people you'd like >to love during the > > reading of this poem, alone > with skeletons skeletons > skeletons > >there are no urgent reasons for voices >you have no voice here they are >singing a Radiohead song we're >all pretty wasted w/o a fight you > >gave away all lovers >to serve constellations >your money melted away > you're a faker > > during this poem, an alone > skeleton, you Radiohead > song > >we're all pretty wasted >there's no urgent voices >no reasons you have no >voice and are easy to >fuck to > all skeletons serve the following >pressures go ahead and sing > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:10:11 -0800 >From: Drunken Boat >Subject: Drunken Boat, Issue#5 Live Online > >Check out for the latest >issue of Drunken Boat. Featuring an eclectic mix of >new work including interactive web art, video >installations, a never-before-seen lyrical translation >of Rimbaud, an improvised comic audio dialogue, a >collection of dynamic visual aphorisms, a proposed >curriculum for a bardic school, and a selection of >photographs that document how Serbia's natural and >cultural monuments have persisted in the face of civil >war. > >Please send any comments/questions/work to: >editors@drunkenboat.com > >Issue#5 includes: > >Poetry: >Rosanna Warren, Kenny Goldsmith, Jon Pineda, Mark >Conway, Kathleen Ossip, Sharon Dolin, Simon Perchik >Ray Gonzalez, Kathryn Rantala, Paul Hardacre, Halvard >Johnson and Ian Randall Wilson > >Translation: >William Allegrazza, Ünal Aytür and Mark Spitzer > >Sound: >Theresa Rosas, Edward Ruchalski, Mac Dunlop and Paul >A. Toth > >Photo/Video: >Andrija Ilic, Machfield, Sharon Paz and Graham >Nicholls > >Web Art: >Emma Braslavsky, Jonathan Carr, Curt Cloninger, >Ian Finch, Jeanie Finlay and David Hirmes > >Prose: >Philip Brady, John Rocco, Katherine Darnell, Johnny >Pence, Steve Potter and Vashni De Schepper > >Hope you enjoy! > >Ravi Shankar >ed, http://www.drunkenboat.com > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:40:54 -0600 >From: Aaron Belz >Subject: Raised in a Barn #3 > >Raised in a Barn #3 > >This beautiful little journal is accepting submissions of prose fiction and >creative essays for its third issue. > >http://www.massdeportation.org/ > >I had poems in the second issue (the editors removed the line breaks to >make them prose), which was really a well-produced, pleasant literary >object. > >-Aaron > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:50:44 +1300 >From: "richard.tylr" >Subject: Re: Poetry How it is Informed > >Alan has an interesting point about terrorism...bring things on = >..that's interesting: but how much of the political sitiuation is = >"informing" our writing poetics now. I find it difficult to write these = >days...however I dont know how much that is my distraction in the "rage" = >to earn a crust or the politics is intruding: sometimes i wish all this = >would go away: its like a monstrous dream. thank god for valium and a = >little booze.=20 > >Nick I know where you're coming from: I found that in 1993 the only way = >I could cope with NY (which is a fantastic place) was to get boozed evey = >night! This was way before I connected politics with lit....I was trying = >to avoid politics right up to S11... its strange but I'm quite = >indifferent to what happens (with some exceptions) in NZ eg Air NZ is = >being sold but I simply dont care and there endless murder trials and I = >just dont read about them (except I'm interested in the trial of a cop = >as it may effect the legal psosition of my own son and possibilities of = >reparations and apologies and also psychological benefits and social = >depending on how it goes)...but just about everything else that happens = >in NZ I m indifferent to: including sport but I watch to see what's = >happenning in Israel an Iraq..that's all I'm interested in...strange)... > >But I dont write much that is "consciousy" or overtly political...or do = >i ...how do oters react cope respond. Apologies I havent read Ron's Blog = >yet or Barrett Watten's response.=20 > >Richard the (slightly (?) crazy) Kiwi. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:16:06 -0500 >From: Jordan Davis >Subject: A nation of nothing but ... > >'Moron Bush' aide resigns > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2516939.stm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:56:45 -0500 >From: Millie Niss on eathlink >Subject: Stir Frys (Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel) > >I am interested in this project... Although I have my hand in many pots >these days and tend to stop and spend an afternoon doing soimething >ludicrous and silly (see my "call for work" to follow). > >I gather with the reference to InnerHTML that this only works on IE, not >Netscape 4. Does it work on NS 6 & 7? > >How hard is it to stri fryify one's text? Do all the authors use the same >algorithm, say the one you created and posted on Vispo? Or is creating the >algorithm the main part of creating thhe stir fry work? To me, the main part >would be choosing what chunks could be modified, and whether they would just >be rollovers, cycling through a long list of replacements for that spot, or >instead a more interesting algorithm that moves some texts around thereby >changing emphases and meanings. > >Do you do this to one large text, use stir fryification to crteate a text >from scratch based on an existing text you have wriotten but do not use >explicitly in the piece, or can you rewrite existing texts? I want to use a >certain body of short texts, not one long text, and I'd like to make new >texts in the series perhaps, but maybe let the reader see the "real" texts" >first.... But this is just idle speculation in a way. I;lll really do it >if the prpcess is not tooo long and consists of creative work, but if it >onvolves a lot of re-typing texts with brackets and commas and quotes aded, >I probably willl give up.... > >Millie >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jim Andrews >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 4:53 AM >Subject: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel > > >> It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at >> http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+). >> >> There's discussion between Pauline and me concerning "Blue Hyacinth" and >the stir frys at >> http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/mazconv.htm . >> >> "The story has already been written...her blue hyacinth voice. >> The story has already been written another in the corner is smoking. >> The story has already been written in colour. >> The story has already been written and he's just here now to watch it >played out." >> >> In one of the four texts, we read of a night club owner's remote reaction >to his blowing up a >> rival night club called The Blue Hyacinth. In another, a woman describes >the actions of someone >> who broke into her house and left voice recordings on all her tapes, >leaves voice messages on >> her phone, "it goes on for months, her blue hyacinth voice." In another of >the texts, a woman >> relates of having won money bet on Blue Hyacinth at the track, and her own >inexplicable giving >> up of the winnings. >> >> Masurel has used the mechanism of the stir fry to transform fictive >stories/vignettes into a >> vortex of poetry...and back again to fiction, as you please. >> >> Many thanks to Pauline for "Blue Hyacinth" and its transformations through >the shapes of fiction >> and poetry. >> >> There are now five stir fry texts involving various participants: Pauline, >Brian Lennon, Leo >> Marx, Jerome McGann, Talan Memmott, Mary Phillips, Joseph Weizenbaum, Lee >Worden, and >> translation into Chinese of one of them by Shuen-shing Lee. They have been >published in the Iowa >> Review Web, ubu.com, DOC(K)S from France, Taiwan, and offline in Denmark. >The project was >> started in 1999 and may or may not be finished according to whether the >form inspires others to >> do something different with it, as Pauline has. >> >> The stir fry form keys on the DHTML innerHTML method which allows you to >change the HTML code >> inside a or
. Pauline's "Blue Hyacinth" can transform into >> 4^30=1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different texts as you mouse over it. So >the 'whole thing' will >> never be read. But neither need all 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 different >texts be read to grasp >> what we would call 'the meaning' of the piece. >> >> As we move into combinatorially complex works, we realize that what it >means to read a >> combinatorium with subtlety and comprehension does not involve the >necessarily impossible task >> of reading all the possibilities of a combinatorium but, rather, getting a >sense of the >> directions in which the possibilities tend by sampling them until they >begin to diminish in >> significant difference. In the end, we see that the mind ranges very >quickly through >> 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 despite its seeming insuperability. A text of >> 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 possibilities is still amenable to the creation >of meaning on a human >> scale not simply by disregarding most of the possibilities, but by virtue >of the way the >> underlying 4 texts guide the reader through primary (spanning set) spaces >of meaning. >> >> ja > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:48:48 -0500 >From: Halvard Johnson >Subject: Re: A nation of nothing but ... > >Now, if we'd only get a message with >one of those four words omitted. > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >{ 'Moron Bush' aide resigns >{ >{ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2516939.stm > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:05:09 -0500 >From: Millie Niss on eathlink >Subject: irrelevant post on war and tolerance :-) > > Claymore's Discovery = >of His True Nature >=20 > > > Claymore Smith sat in his favorite armchair munching on = >madeleines, happily listening to tales of maiming and accidental death = >in post-Khmer Rouge Cambodia. He enjoyed hard news, especially anything = >one could get indignant about on moral grounds which also carried vivid = >imagery he >could savor. >=20 > Then he heard the sentence: "Five year-old Dat lost three toes, = >one ear, and a foot to a Claymore in her grandmother's rice paddy." A = >Claymore, Claymore thought! I am a land mine? >=20 > The next time he talked to his former draft resister, SDS-member = >father he popped the question: "Dad, am I adopted?" >=20 > "How did you find out after all this time? We tried so hard to = >conceal it from you because we didn't want the influence of your birth = >family to corrupt our liberal upbringing. You see, your father was a = >hero. A Green Beret. Who named his first son after his favorite weapon. = > He got a medal for killing a twelve year-old armed with a pineapple. = >He thought it was a grenade..." >=20 > "Oh my God, I'm a land mine!" >=20 > "No, dear, you were simply the product of a sick sociological = >system. Individuals aren't to blame. I hope you don't hate your = >father. He was a brave man." >=20 > "You are my father. But maybe not. How could you be the father = >of a landmine?" >=20 > "Don't be prejudiced. Not everyone is enlightened. It was a = >dismal period, when you were born. No one knew what to believe. It's = >not his fault. He probably was a good man. He probably thought he was = >doing good. You mustn't be judgmental..." >=20 > "But you are human!" >=20 > "What do you mean?" >=20 > "A human couldn't be the father of a land mine. Plus, when do = >I blow up?" >=20 > "Son?" >=20 > "Am I pressure sensitive? Or remote controlled. I must be = >remote controlled because people have laid down on me and..." >=20 > "I DON'T want to hear about it. Don't ask, don't tell. Like = >the Army. I just don't want to know, ok. I don't want to imagine = >anyone on top of my son doing anything! Do you understand? Haven't I = >made myself clear on this subject before? Your choices are your = >choices, but some things are just not talked about between father and = >son, or really not at all. I understand that it is necessary to = >tolerate deviant lifestyles, I've often preached this from my pulpit at = >the Unitarian Church, but do you know how humiliating it is for me to = >have one for my son when I am tantamount to a public figure? Hey, = >there's the priest with the gay son, people say as I walk down the = >street. Wonder where he caught it from... I hear it's taught in = >seminary ha ha ha. All day I have to imagine people saying these things = >about me. I hear them in my head. Hey gay-son priest! Fag son. I am = >so furious that you brought this loathsome subject up again that I'm = >tempted to press the button. How dare you disturb my peace which = >passeth all understanding? I am nearing Nirvana, I can feel myself = >becoming enlightened and there you go making me be unmindful. I have = >devoted years of meditation to banishing thoughts of the body from my = >consciousness and you have ruined it! Once I was plagued by images of = >carnal embrace. I was blind, but now can see, now that the true Light = >can shine through with no base imaginings to block Its immanence. But = >you have taken the Light from mine eyes with your so-called lifestyle = >and your insistence on discussing it. The sun is dark to me and the = >Light of God cannot shine through. You are no son of mine, landmine! >=20 > "Daddy, love me! It's hard being a weapon aimed at killing = >civilian populations. It makes me feel guilty. I'm afraid I might blow = >up and hurt someone. Hug me, daddy! I love you!" >=20 > "Love from the likes of you is a nauseating thought. I am not a = >fag, Go love someone who wants to perform the sin of Sodom. I am not = >interested. I am pure. Love from you is a contamination." >=20 > "Daddy... I can't help it. I am attracted to men. It's not a = >ch....AAAAAAHHHH!" >=20 >BOOM. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:56:54 -0700 >From: George Bowering >Subject: Re: pepsi > >>The "punch-line" I meant in the humor of my post was >>that it was terrified by Pepsi but said nothing >>against dexedrine. >> >>The idea of citing "Pepsi and dexedrine" at all struck >>me as funny, as a form, that pairing of the >>ubiquitously innocent (soda/pop) and a dangerous >>controlled substance in one conjunction. > >Pepsi is not dangerous? >-- >George Bowering >Has terrible bed hair. >Fax 604-266-9000 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:46:01 -0500 >From: Geoffrey Gatza >Subject: Re: pepsi > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "George Bowering" > > >> Pepsi is not dangerous? > > >This is not true :-) There is an urban ledged going around town that Pepsi >is going to be the next terrorist attack. The tale (as I have heard it many >times from different people have many variations but) goes something like >this: A person goes into a store and helps out an older foreign woman and >she is so impressed with this person's random act of kindness that she tells >the person to not drink Pepsi anymore and it will soon be poison. Go figure >:-) > >Best, Geoffrey > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:23:53 -0800 >From: Damian Judge Rollison >Subject: Re: pepsi > >> George Bowering >> Has terrible bed hair. > >God, George, me too. When I look in the mirror first thing >in the morning I have to stop myself from calling Tom Ridge >to report that the terrorists have been fucking with my >hair in the middle of the night. One day I won't be able to >stop myself. That's when I'll know the terrorists have won. > >Yesterday my cat finally got fed up with me. "Does >everything always have to be about terrorists?" she meowed. >"In this case, yes," I insisted. "Because when it's code >yellow, I'm supposed to be on the fucking lookout." > >It didn't much surprise me that my ex-wife turned out to be >a terrorist. But she's not the one messing with my hair. >Could it be the cat? What would Tom Ridge say if I called >him to report my cat? > >He'd probably laugh in his affable way and say, "Don't >worry, Damian, we've got pet surveillance pretty much tied >up. If your cat had been tousling your pompadour in the wee >hours, believe me, I'd already know about it." > >It's a comforting thought, but it still doesn't answer the >basic question. Now that I've crossed ex-wife and cat off >the list, who's left? I do have a lot of ants in the >bathroom all of a sudden. God knows those little fuckers >are capable of concerted effort. But ants stand to gain so >little if the terrorists win, it's hard to fathom why they'd >get involved. Unless ... > >Wait, that's it -- the ants, they're completely outside the >loop of Total Information Awareness! Do they even have >fingerprints? A little hair-displacement en route from >computer to bedroom window is the only trace of their >nefarious nocturnal operations. > >It's all starting to fall into place. These ants -- they >have no citizenship status, no social security numbers. >They don't pay taxes. They live in basically the equivalent >of caves. In fact, don't those little tunnels have CELLS in >them? > >The big question now -- I'd really better call Tom -- is >this: did Osama teach the ants everything they know, OR DID >THE ANTS TEACH OSAMA? > > > >(Sorry, bad head cold, >Damian) > > > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >damian judge rollison >department of english >university of virginia > djr4r@virginia.edu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:40:30 -0800 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas > >Inspection Team Arrives in Las Vegas >Albert Moon > >Las Vegas, Nevada (NDP) -- U.N. weapons inspectors preparing for their first >day of work in the United States say they will "freeze" the buildings they >enter to prevent any evidence being smuggled out. > >Inspectors are preparing to use state-of-the-art equipment when they begin >their search for alleged weapons of mass destruction on Wednesday. > >Inspectors believe Pentagon officials may smuggle documents or evidence out >as inspectors go into nuclear test sites, offices and factories and say they >will now prevent anyone moving in or out of the buildings. > >The 17 inspectors include 11 from the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and >Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), who will focus on chemical and biological >weapons, and 6 from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) who will >investigate any nuclear weapons capability. > >Demetrius Perricos, head of the atomic team, told reporters Tuesday that >state-of-the art equipment was necessary "because the eyes can fool >anybody." > >"You can enter a room which is empty, but that room might have a history and >only if you are taking samples or doing some measurements you can find out >that the room is not as empty as you thought it was," he said. > >Inspectors have showed reporters some of the high-tech equipment they will >use -- including devices that allow for rapid detection of the presence of >chemical, biological, or nuclear substances that may indicate a facility has >been used for developing weapons capability. > >Inspectors will take air samples and "swipes" of objects within a site, as >well as other types of samples, and examine them for things such as >radioactive isotopes. They will also seal up some objects. > >Information will be sent immediately to laboratories in Moscow and Vienna. > >Information collected from the inspections will be cross-referenced against >files showing what substances should be present given the site's official >purpose. > >"Technology of today is having much progress in terms of what it provides >for a rapid detection of biological or chemical substances," Perricos said. > >Pointing to the relatively small size of the detection devices, he said: >"Thank God they made it portable and not just transportable." > >Perricos was asked whether the arms monitors would be looking for suspected >mobile biological weapons laboratories in trailers identified previously as >houses of prostitution. "We have some plans," he said. > >Perricos said ground-penetrating radar would be used to locate possible >buried storage or production sites. > >Jacques Baute, head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection >Committee (UNMOVIC) said: "We are fully conscious of the responsibility we >have on our shoulders. > >"We have an access anywhere and access anywhere is translated into >inspections to any type of facilities. > >"Anytime is one of the key parameters regarding the credibility of the >conclusions, and another translation is immediate access. > >"If we have access immediately to a site the credibility of our conclusion >if we find nothing there is far higher than if there is any notice, even of >one or two hours." > >Under the terms of Resolution 1441, passed this month, Washington must >provide a list of their weapons of mass destruction to the Security Council >by December 8. > >The United States has vowed to meet the deadline and has said inspectors >will be given complete access to all sites. > >The U.N. inspectors are to report to the Security Council by late January on >their initial round of inspections, including whether the Americans have >been fully cooperative. > >The United States has assailed the resolution and called it a result of the >desire of the members of the United Nations to eliminate its right to bear >nuclear arms in support of regional enforcement of international oil and >trade agreements. > >Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter rejected Washington's >claims. > >"Washinton has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons >program," he told CNN's Bagdad Morning with Paula Zahn. > >Butler said the United States has a history of lying to the U.N. "This is a >long- standing American approach, but they can't take that approach this >time," he said. > >"This current resolution of the Security Council is black and white, it >makes very clear, you will tell the truth or else, and I hope they get >that." > >Meanwhile, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr said the United Nations >Navy will have four aircraft carriers within striking distance of the United >States at some point in mid-December -- but U.N. military officials have >emphasized they have no reason to believe the congregation of warships could >mark the beginning of any attack on the United States. The assembling of >such a large number of carriers is said to be an accident of a global >preservation and deployment schedule and the overlap should only exist for a >few days. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:42:25 -0500 >From: Patrick Herron >Subject: the insincerity of poetic candor > >I do agree with this. Perhaps in order to close our seeming linguistic gap, >we could say that such a poem as Frost's is *deliberately* disingenuous, and >perhaps its deliberately so for marketing purposes. I don't really know >about the market intents of that poem of his in particular, or any others >for that matter, but of course it seems it is a reasonable guess to say that >it is. Authenticity, especially authentic solitude, is good business in >poetry. Get one of them thar $100k prizes for poetry...that's not any >piddling amount of dough. Even in Manhattan that's a decent down payment on >a piece of real estate. Some people will do "what it takes," or rather, >what takes it: the money. Oh the fame, & the seeming immortality--those >too. > >But how or why, I now wonder, do we want to draw a line between us and those >mainstreamers crap-ola-ing poetry? I mean, I saw that article in the >NYTimes (was it there?) about Bernstein. Here's more "one of us" than "one >of them" though he is regularly accused by people I respect highly as just >another "one of them." That article was just awful, sophomoric, cheap, and >done in front of so many people. Maybe Bernstein's largest audience. That >was the outside world drawing a line around some of us right here. Anyway, >this sort of us/them gesture getting anywhere near poets is beginning to >make me nervous. I'm just as bad, if not worse, than the next person. >Maybe it's because my wife is teaching me how to pick my battles--I think I >am finally beginning to understand this concept. And so I'm afraid now to >pick battles with other poets, because to the world outside of poetry >looking in, we're all nothing but shit it seems--every last one of us. Just >in time for America to create its own spin-off into a world domination >machine repressing just about everything inside or out. Confessional or no, >a poet might just equal a problem to everyone that's not a poet soon enough. >(At least outside urban areas...so many non-poets in NYC seem to be >sympathetic to poets, for example. There are of course exceptions and they >will remain.) > >I am in mind of the myth of the Jesus story about not casting the first >stone: maybe telling people it is wrong for some fantastic reason instead of >telling them the truth is more effective. It seems more poetic in some >fucked up way. If a person casts a stone, others are more ready to cast >stones, and we might just end up getting a whole lot of stone-throwing. But >telling people the truth won't stop 'em: so give the people "sin." >*Something* other-worldly: tell them it'll put them on a never-ending >hayride through hell. Telling people the truth sometimes leads us away from >the truth. That really sucks. Ugh. Did I just write that? Tell a lie, >we're fucked; tell the truth, we're fucked. Tell a lie, tell the truth, >tell a lie, tell the truth, is how the joke goes ("What did Raggedy Ann say >to Pinocchio as she was sitting on his face?") > >I wonder about this different sense of candor to which I was referring, the >sort of candor that is also artful. And full of art (or at least plodding >along that line). I can't be sincere in order to be sincere. That is of >course inherently conflicted, yet there it is. Here I am, displaying >sincerity in an inherently artful & public arena. I do think my >disingenuousness is OK, because it brings along with it my candor. Perhaps >I think I can only get the truth with exaggeration or a series of other >deceptive/manipulative gestures. But I have to wonder, how much different >am I than Frost perhaps? Other than the talented or famous or mainstream >categories, of course. How many of us poets are free of such complications? >I doubt when it comes down to it very few of us are. And I'm scared of >those left over. :) > >Even an emoticon seems both genuine and disingenuous simultaneously. > >A poem from anyone seems to me a ploy, a stratagem, whether it be for >self-expression, self-denial, cash, or anything in between, even if the poem >de-ploys the ployishness of a poem. Even that sort of (perhaps >deconstructive) poem is still is in itself that gesture of desire for >something or other. Even a randomly generated computer poem falls into that >category of being in some way a ploy. Something disingenuous always seems >to be present in a poem. Assonance, for example. Formal stricture. Poetic >diction. Displaying it in an audience. Etc. Maybe even the very formation >or use of any word, in any context, through any medium, for that matter. > >Please forgive me if I'm beginning to sound like Stuart Smalley. You know >the SNL character: "I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and, Doggone it, >People Like Me..." > >P > >-----Original Message----- >From: Maria Damon [mailto:damon001@umn.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:06 AM >To: patrick@proximate.org; UB Poetics discussion group >Subject: Re: disingeuous > > >well of course you're right, (perhaps it was disingenuous of me to >say disingenuous?) but in "meanstream" lyric i mean mainstream, it's >the emphasis on the content of solitude, and sincerity about that >solitude, is suspect perhaps, disingenuous. for example, stopping by >woods on a snowy evening. it's so full of its own solitude, and >wanting to be praised for it! > >At 1:30 AM -0500 11/26/02, Patrick Herron wrote: >>Maria Damon wrote of "mainstream poetry": >> >>"disingenuous of course, because always, the >>evaluative, "craft-conscious" public is looking over the shoulder of >>this solitary struggler, so the solitary struggle is a performance >>for an audience. " >> >> >>BUT >> >>Maria (Hi!), >> >>Is this because performance is itself fake in some way, inauthentic, >>manipulative? On that level, I'd say *all* art is disingenuous to some >>extent, even for those mocking/faking/hoaxing the solitary struggle (e.g., >>Doubled Flowering), or for those not quite sure about the metaphysical >>status of their performative actions (e.g., Spicer). But on another level, >>can not performance be candor itself? I find that performance often makes >>candor possible where it otherwise was not. That is, at least for me, I am >>more able to say what's on my mind in a performative space than in a >private >>space. Not that I am confessional in most stretches of the critical >>imagination. (This need for performative space as an opportunity for >candor >>may not be the model of psychic health or "balance", but there it is, the >>exception, nonetheless--it does happen.) I know you were speaking of >>"mainstream" work, but I fear that such a distinction seems only to occlude >>evaluation of such an analysis as the one reflected in your above >statement. >> >>I'm not saying at all that I disagree with the gist of your post. I am >just >>wondering about the genesis/origin of your statement about sincerity and >>performance. >> >>Yours, >>Patrick > > >-- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:17:53 -0700 >From: George Bowering >Subject: Re: pepsi > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "George Bowering" >> >> >>> Pepsi is not dangerous? >> >> >>This is not true :-) There is an urban ledged going around town that Pepsi >>is going to be the next terrorist attack. The tale (as I have heard it many >>times from different people have many variations but) goes something like >>this: A person goes into a store and helps out an older foreign woman and >>she is so impressed with this person's random act of kindness that she tells >>the person to not drink Pepsi anymore and it will soon be poison. Go figure >>:-) >> >>Best, Geoffrey > >Quick, tell Amiri! >-- >George Bowering >Has terrible bed hair. >Fax 604-266-9000 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:45:05 -0800 >From: "J. Scappettone" >Subject: Holloway Poetry Series presents Forrest Hamer and Angie Yuan, 12/3 > >Forrest Hamer will be reading in UC-Berkeley's Holloway Poetry Series on >December 3 at 6 pm in the Maud Fife Room (Wheeler Hall, Room 315, on the >Third Floor) on the University campus > > > Forrest Hamer is the author of Call & Response (Alice James Books, >1995), >winner of the Beatrice Hawley Award, and Middle Ear (Roundhouse, 2000), >winner of the Bay Area Book Reviewers Association (BABRA) Award. His work >has appeared in many journals, and has been anthologized in Best American >Poetry, Poet's Choice: Poems for Everyday Life, The Geography of Home: >California=B9s Poetry of Place, and Making Callaloo: 25 Years of Black >Literature. Hamer is also a Bay Area psychologist and a lecturer at the >University of California, Berkeley. > > The event will begin with a reading by Angie Yuan, who is a graduate >student in the Asian Studies Department studying modern Chinese literature >and translation practices in contemporary Chinese poetry. She received her >MFA from the University of Arizona in 1996 and is currently working on a >first collection of poetry. > > Colloquium with the poets begins at 4:30 p.m. in the English Dept. >Lounge, >330 Wheeler Hall > > Readings begin at 6 pm, Maud Fife Room, 315 Wheeler Hall, UC Berkele= >y > > Free and open to the public > >------------------------------ > >End of POETICS Digest - 25 Nov 2002 to 26 Nov 2002 (#2002-288) >************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:08:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: the war/ apologies, but in case you have anxieties! In-Reply-To: <3DE5E738@webmail> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Open this: http://www.incunabula.org/images/gwposter.jpg